WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.760 --> 00:00:03.680 You're listening to an airwave media podcast. 2 00:00:04.679 --> 00:00:06.120 People fear snakes. 3 00:00:06.960 --> 00:00:10.080 Oh, sure, there are people who don't, Like we discussed 4 00:00:10.080 --> 00:00:12.480 in our episode on spiders back in episode ninety four, 5 00:00:13.000 --> 00:00:16.399 people can overcome their fears with continued exposure and education. 6 00:00:17.320 --> 00:00:19.719 But for many of us, there's an almost innate fear 7 00:00:19.719 --> 00:00:23.280 of snakes that's so primal, so powerful, that even the 8 00:00:23.320 --> 00:00:25.920 most harmless of these animals can send us running in terror. 9 00:00:26.359 --> 00:00:29.280 And that's just for normal sized snakes. Now, what if 10 00:00:29.280 --> 00:00:31.879 the snake and question were twenty feet long and slithering 11 00:00:31.920 --> 00:00:34.759 towards you, its body as thick as your thigh. The 12 00:00:34.759 --> 00:00:38.399 glistening scales, the staring, lidless eyes, the tongue darting in 13 00:00:38.439 --> 00:00:40.439 and out as if it were longing to taste you. 14 00:00:41.679 --> 00:00:45.759 Twenty feet long, those are real. The stories continue to 15 00:00:45.759 --> 00:00:48.840 slither in of snakes much longer, and the Internet is 16 00:00:48.920 --> 00:00:52.679 littered with fantastic photos of alleged serpents monsters where the 17 00:00:52.719 --> 00:00:55.600 links are claimed to be forty or even fifty feet. 18 00:00:56.600 --> 00:00:59.320 Here's an example, an audio clip about a famous giant 19 00:00:59.359 --> 00:01:02.679 snake photo for the Congo. This is excerpted from the 20 00:01:02.719 --> 00:01:06.000 series Arthur C. Clark's Mysterious World a favor of mine. 21 00:01:06.439 --> 00:01:11.200 This is famous Belgian pilot Colonel Remy von Leirda describing 22 00:01:11.239 --> 00:01:13.920 a giant snake he saw or flying over the Belgian 23 00:01:13.959 --> 00:01:16.079 Congo in nineteen fifty nine. 24 00:01:16.480 --> 00:01:19.959 To make several pauses over the hole where the snake 25 00:01:20.120 --> 00:01:23.159 was in, enabled to let the man take a picture 26 00:01:23.159 --> 00:01:26.920 of it. And I made certainly between four and six 27 00:01:27.040 --> 00:01:30.239 passes right over the hole where the snake was in. 28 00:01:30.760 --> 00:01:33.120 By then I was already flying for twenty five years, 29 00:01:33.120 --> 00:01:37.680 so I have a very good experience of measuring things. 30 00:01:39.200 --> 00:01:42.400 And I would say the snake I saw there was 31 00:01:42.400 --> 00:01:45.000 close to fifty foot, close to fifty feet. I don't 32 00:01:45.000 --> 00:01:48.239 know you say fifty foot or fifty feet, but very 33 00:01:48.239 --> 00:01:53.200 close to. Certainly, it's actually quite unlike anything we've ever 34 00:01:53.239 --> 00:01:53.840 seen before. 35 00:01:55.959 --> 00:01:57.519 A giant, very creature. 36 00:01:57.760 --> 00:01:59.200 Part eight, Part mat. 37 00:02:00.640 --> 00:02:03.680 In Luckness twenty four, a mile long bottomless lake in 38 00:02:03.719 --> 00:02:04.840 the Highlands of Scotland. 39 00:02:05.159 --> 00:02:07.680 It's a creature known as the Luckness monster. 40 00:02:29.599 --> 00:02:30.639 Monster t. 41 00:02:32.000 --> 00:02:34.919 Welcome to Monster Talk, the science show about monsters. I'm 42 00:02:34.919 --> 00:02:37.919 Blake Smith, and together with doctor Karen Stolesno, we're going 43 00:02:37.960 --> 00:02:41.240 to talk with author and snake expert John Murphy about 44 00:02:41.240 --> 00:02:44.800 giant snakes from the Garden of Eden to the river 45 00:02:44.879 --> 00:02:48.680 Gods of Asia to the Midguard Serpent. Legends and myths 46 00:02:48.719 --> 00:02:51.000 about giant snakes have been a part of human culture 47 00:02:51.039 --> 00:02:54.800 for thousands of years. I'm fascinated by these stories and 48 00:02:54.800 --> 00:02:58.039 by the real animals which inspire them. When Monster Talk 49 00:02:58.159 --> 00:03:00.439 was just an idea before I even how to put 50 00:03:00.479 --> 00:03:02.719 together the show, this was one of the topics I 51 00:03:02.800 --> 00:03:05.479 knew I wanted to cover, But finding a giant snake 52 00:03:05.520 --> 00:03:07.520 expert who is also willing to talk on our show 53 00:03:07.560 --> 00:03:10.520 turned out to be more difficult than I expected. Fortunately, 54 00:03:10.680 --> 00:03:13.319 we finally found one and he's got some amazing facts 55 00:03:13.319 --> 00:03:15.960 to share about the real world of giant snakes. 56 00:03:16.360 --> 00:03:17.319 Monstertle. 57 00:03:18.680 --> 00:03:19.080 John C. 58 00:03:19.240 --> 00:03:22.360 Murphy is a research associate of the Division of Amphibians 59 00:03:22.360 --> 00:03:24.879 and Reptiles at the Field Museum of Natural History. He 60 00:03:24.960 --> 00:03:28.000 recently retired from a thirty eight year science teaching career 61 00:03:28.000 --> 00:03:31.599 to write about reptiles, amphibians and biodiversity, to do photography 62 00:03:31.639 --> 00:03:34.000 and research whatever topics attract his attention. 63 00:03:35.000 --> 00:03:36.520 Thank you for joining us on Monster. 64 00:03:36.280 --> 00:03:39.080 Talk, John Well, thanks for having me. 65 00:03:39.800 --> 00:03:42.800 So I'm sitting here looking at your book, Tales of 66 00:03:42.840 --> 00:03:45.280 Giant Snakes, a Historical natural history of. 67 00:03:45.199 --> 00:03:46.639 Anacondas and pythons. 68 00:03:47.479 --> 00:03:50.240 Can you tell us in the Monster Talk listeners what 69 00:03:50.439 --> 00:03:52.680 drew you to the study of these enormous snakes. 70 00:03:53.360 --> 00:03:57.680 Well, I've always been been interested in snakes in general, 71 00:03:58.400 --> 00:04:02.919 and obviously the giant snakes are the most spectacular snakes 72 00:04:02.919 --> 00:04:06.800 on the planet and also, believe it or not, much 73 00:04:06.840 --> 00:04:10.840 more common than most people realize, and very poorly studied. So, 74 00:04:11.080 --> 00:04:15.599 Bob Henderson, who has also been interested in BoA's for 75 00:04:15.639 --> 00:04:18.680 a very long time, you and I got together and 76 00:04:18.959 --> 00:04:20.399 collaborated on that book. 77 00:04:20.560 --> 00:04:23.600 So, John, many people have a fear of snakes, and 78 00:04:23.639 --> 00:04:25.720 some people think that it's a well some say that's 79 00:04:25.759 --> 00:04:28.800 an a nice fear. So, how's the general public's negative 80 00:04:28.839 --> 00:04:31.319 bias towards snakes impacted your career. 81 00:04:31.879 --> 00:04:35.600 Well, it's actually probably made it much better than it 82 00:04:35.639 --> 00:04:41.879 otherwise would have been, because really people are very conflicted 83 00:04:41.920 --> 00:04:44.879 about snakes. You know, some people will tell you that 84 00:04:44.920 --> 00:04:48.439 they're totally afraid of them, but at the same time 85 00:04:48.759 --> 00:04:51.240 they will ask you questions about them or tell you 86 00:04:51.279 --> 00:04:56.160 the stories about them. And in reality, I think there 87 00:04:56.199 --> 00:05:01.399 is sort of this duality, a fascination and curiosity about 88 00:05:01.399 --> 00:05:06.959 snakes as well as the fear of them, and this 89 00:05:07.160 --> 00:05:10.720 I believe is kind of the result of human ancestors 90 00:05:11.480 --> 00:05:15.120 evolving alongside of some very large snakes as well as 91 00:05:15.800 --> 00:05:19.040 many venomous species of snakes for a very long time. 92 00:05:19.199 --> 00:05:24.160 There's an anthropologist at the University of California named lynn Isabelle, 93 00:05:24.759 --> 00:05:27.759 and she's written a couple of books and papers about 94 00:05:27.920 --> 00:05:32.920 the human fear and fascination with snakes, and she basically 95 00:05:32.959 --> 00:05:36.519 says that the coevolution of giant snakes and particularly venomous 96 00:05:36.560 --> 00:05:40.360 snakes with human ancestors has sort of pre programmed our 97 00:05:40.399 --> 00:05:47.439 brains to have this fear and curiosity about them, and 98 00:05:47.480 --> 00:05:51.079 it is also responsible for our excellent near vision and 99 00:05:51.639 --> 00:05:54.560 probably some behaviors like declarative pointing. 100 00:05:55.639 --> 00:05:58.639 That would be that's a very specific benefit we might 101 00:05:58.639 --> 00:06:05.160 have gotten, so I think from before I even started 102 00:06:05.160 --> 00:06:07.519 this show, but we were just thinking about the show, 103 00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:10.759 Giant snakes was definitely one of the topics we wanted 104 00:06:10.759 --> 00:06:16.199 to cover. I think going back looking at old photos 105 00:06:16.360 --> 00:06:21.399 of people carrying enormous snakes out of the jungle in 106 00:06:21.480 --> 00:06:26.439 the the nineteen twenties and teens, and people who've allegedly 107 00:06:26.600 --> 00:06:29.439 taken photos from the air of giant snakes and there 108 00:06:29.439 --> 00:06:32.959 have been at least dozens, maybe more maybe hundreds of 109 00:06:34.120 --> 00:06:38.040 giant snake photos that have been faked using photoshop and 110 00:06:38.120 --> 00:06:41.600 various things that have come across my desk in the 111 00:06:41.680 --> 00:06:42.600 intervening years. 112 00:06:43.040 --> 00:06:46.199 But what makes a snake a giant snake? 113 00:06:46.199 --> 00:06:49.319 I mean, is how do we define giant in terms 114 00:06:49.360 --> 00:06:50.759 of these serpents. 115 00:06:50.920 --> 00:06:54.160 Well, there's a study that basically says that the optimum 116 00:06:54.279 --> 00:06:58.279 size for a snake is one meter. In nineteen sixty one, 117 00:06:59.240 --> 00:07:02.120 a herpetil just by the name of Clifford Pope wrote 118 00:07:02.120 --> 00:07:06.839 a book on giant snakes and he used the sort 119 00:07:06.839 --> 00:07:10.839 of standard of about twenty feet as describing a snake 120 00:07:10.879 --> 00:07:14.399 as a giant. So when Bob and I wrote that book, 121 00:07:14.560 --> 00:07:17.959 we decided that we would use twenty feet or six 122 00:07:18.000 --> 00:07:22.639 point one meters as the standard size that a snake 123 00:07:22.720 --> 00:07:27.160 should meet in order to be classified as a giant. Now, 124 00:07:27.240 --> 00:07:31.920 in Pope's book, he considered six species of snakes to 125 00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:36.439 reach something close to twenty feet, and one of those 126 00:07:36.480 --> 00:07:40.199 snakes was the bowl constrictor, the common ball constrictor. And 127 00:07:40.439 --> 00:07:43.560 at the time he wrote that book, there was supposedly 128 00:07:43.639 --> 00:07:48.279 a record sized bowel constrictor that was at eighteen point 129 00:07:48.319 --> 00:07:53.040 five feet. Unfortunately that turned out to be a misidentified 130 00:07:53.120 --> 00:07:59.399 in a condom, and boil constrictors probably rarely exceed fourteen 131 00:07:59.480 --> 00:08:03.639 or fifteen feet if they get that big wow. And 132 00:08:03.720 --> 00:08:09.279 so this is the kind of thing that happens when 133 00:08:09.959 --> 00:08:14.360 people get excited about snakes, they tend to exaggerate and 134 00:08:14.639 --> 00:08:19.920 make and make mistakes. So we stayed with the six 135 00:08:20.000 --> 00:08:24.279 point the six smeters with the twenty feet as the 136 00:08:24.360 --> 00:08:26.519 standard for being a giant snake. 137 00:08:27.120 --> 00:08:31.079 Okay, and so how did these giant snakes evolve their 138 00:08:31.199 --> 00:08:32.159 giant size. 139 00:08:33.080 --> 00:08:38.399 There's several different hypotheses about why giant snakes became giant snakes. 140 00:08:39.840 --> 00:08:44.480 Probably the first one is is that they evolved larger 141 00:08:44.519 --> 00:08:48.480 sizes to feed on larger prey, so they were not 142 00:08:48.759 --> 00:08:56.200 competing with smaller, sort of average sized species. And there's 143 00:08:56.240 --> 00:09:00.559 another hypothesis that would basically say, well, snake that are 144 00:09:00.720 --> 00:09:07.080 larger can produce more eggs and larger offspring than snakes 145 00:09:07.120 --> 00:09:12.879 that are smaller. If if male snakes choose larger females 146 00:09:12.919 --> 00:09:18.360 to mate with, then they are promoting in future generations 147 00:09:18.399 --> 00:09:22.039 that there's going to be larger females to reproduce with. 148 00:09:22.240 --> 00:09:25.279 And then there's also this idea that the bigger the 149 00:09:25.320 --> 00:09:28.519 snake is, the more difficult it is for it to 150 00:09:28.559 --> 00:09:33.200 lose heat. So if you're an ectotherm like snakes are, 151 00:09:33.639 --> 00:09:37.799 and you depend on being solar powered, if you evolve 152 00:09:37.799 --> 00:09:41.440 a really big size and the temperature drops a little 153 00:09:41.440 --> 00:09:44.559 bit below which you would otherwise like, you may not 154 00:09:44.679 --> 00:09:47.200 lose as much heat as a smaller snake would. So 155 00:09:47.200 --> 00:09:51.159 those are kind of the major ideas about why snakes 156 00:09:51.799 --> 00:09:53.480 may have evolved larger sizes. 157 00:09:54.200 --> 00:10:00.200 Monster Tcolists are probably very familiar with Titanibo, the the 158 00:10:00.279 --> 00:10:03.759 largest snake fossils that have been found today. Do what 159 00:10:03.799 --> 00:10:05.279 other prehistoric snakes. 160 00:10:04.919 --> 00:10:05.480 Do we know about? 161 00:10:05.519 --> 00:10:08.799 I mean, how much of the fossil record do we 162 00:10:08.919 --> 00:10:13.000 have of the evolution of snakes from their whatever ancestors were. 163 00:10:13.519 --> 00:10:15.440 Snakes did evolve from lizards. 164 00:10:15.080 --> 00:10:17.960 Okay, so it's not they just diverged from lizards. I 165 00:10:18.039 --> 00:10:18.480 wasn't sure. 166 00:10:18.919 --> 00:10:22.559 Yeah they did. And many snakes, many groups of snakes. 167 00:10:23.000 --> 00:10:26.759 You know, they have remnant, remnant legs, they have a 168 00:10:26.799 --> 00:10:29.639 remnant pelvis, and I understand now that there is even 169 00:10:29.639 --> 00:10:34.120 a fossil snake that they have found that has four legs. 170 00:10:34.799 --> 00:10:37.039 This has sort of been the evidence has sort of 171 00:10:37.039 --> 00:10:39.799 been accumulating for quite some time. There's a lot of 172 00:10:39.919 --> 00:10:44.320 arguments over whether or not the ancestral lizard that gave 173 00:10:44.440 --> 00:10:51.120 rise to the snakes was a burrowing species or an 174 00:10:51.159 --> 00:10:56.399 aquatic species, and whether it was a very small species 175 00:10:56.480 --> 00:11:01.039 or a very large species. So, without string too far 176 00:11:01.360 --> 00:11:04.000 from the topic of giant snakes, all of the giant 177 00:11:04.000 --> 00:11:09.120 snakes today have remnant pelvic girdles, so they have a 178 00:11:10.200 --> 00:11:13.639 little spur that comes out externally that sort of the 179 00:11:13.720 --> 00:11:17.480 remains of a claw, and there are muscles attached to it. 180 00:11:17.480 --> 00:11:20.480 It's larger in males than it is in females and 181 00:11:20.600 --> 00:11:25.080 male pythons, and BoA's used that during courtship. As far 182 00:11:25.080 --> 00:11:29.919 as the fossil record goes, there are other pretty good 183 00:11:30.000 --> 00:11:35.519 sized snakes besides the Titanic ball. In nineteen oh one, 184 00:11:36.200 --> 00:11:45.840 Charles Andrews, a paleontologist, described Gigantopis Garstinia from eastern Egypt, 185 00:11:46.879 --> 00:11:49.799 and he estimated it to be between twenty nine and 186 00:11:50.080 --> 00:11:52.919 thirty one million years old, and it had some pretty 187 00:11:52.919 --> 00:11:57.159 good size of vertebrae, and he originally estimated it to 188 00:11:57.200 --> 00:12:00.519 be about thirty feet or nine point one meters. Another 189 00:12:00.559 --> 00:12:05.840 guy came along in nineteen oh five, and he described 190 00:12:05.840 --> 00:12:08.799 that the same snake as being between fifty and sixty 191 00:12:08.799 --> 00:12:13.320 feet long. But I think that Andrews was probably originally 192 00:12:13.360 --> 00:12:16.799 correct based on the size of the vertebrae that he got. 193 00:12:17.279 --> 00:12:19.559 These snakes, by the way, we're in a totally different 194 00:12:19.600 --> 00:12:23.240 family than boas and pythons. They were related to modern 195 00:12:23.320 --> 00:12:27.679 day file snakes, which are there's three or four species 196 00:12:27.720 --> 00:12:33.080 of file snakes and they're totally aquatic, and they're primarily Australian. 197 00:12:33.360 --> 00:12:34.840 And knew it. 198 00:12:38.320 --> 00:12:42.519 I'm from Australia. So the first thing that anyone asks 199 00:12:42.559 --> 00:12:45.440 me whenever they don't find out I'm from Australia, they 200 00:12:45.759 --> 00:12:47.600 asked me about snakes and spiders. 201 00:12:47.879 --> 00:12:52.879 Oh yeah, and how many venomous snakes you've seen in Australia, right. 202 00:12:53.159 --> 00:12:55.519 Yeah, And in all my years there just one. I 203 00:12:55.559 --> 00:12:57.639 saw a brown snake one day when I was going 204 00:12:57.679 --> 00:12:58.120 on a hike. 205 00:12:58.240 --> 00:13:03.440 That was it. A lot of these fossil remains are 206 00:13:03.440 --> 00:13:08.000 from this family, it's called paleophid, and some of them 207 00:13:08.039 --> 00:13:10.840 got to be, you know, at least the size of 208 00:13:11.039 --> 00:13:16.279 modern day of big modern day boas and pythons, and 209 00:13:17.159 --> 00:13:20.960 most of them were aquatic at least the bigger ones 210 00:13:21.000 --> 00:13:25.879 were so Titanic bo is certainly the most famous one. 211 00:13:26.200 --> 00:13:29.600 They estimated to be thirteen meters or about forty two feet, 212 00:13:29.720 --> 00:13:33.000 and it came from Colombia, South America, so it was 213 00:13:33.039 --> 00:13:36.039 related to it was a boat, it was related to 214 00:13:36.039 --> 00:13:38.240 anacondas and the common ball constrictor. 215 00:13:39.080 --> 00:13:39.919 That's a big snake. 216 00:13:40.480 --> 00:13:47.159 Yeah, absolutely so, John, Were there any evolutionary advantages or 217 00:13:47.200 --> 00:13:50.799 are there any evolutionary advantages of being a giant snake 218 00:13:50.960 --> 00:13:54.159 versus a more mundane or typical size snake. 219 00:13:54.440 --> 00:13:59.399 Well, I think the evolutionary advantage would be that as 220 00:13:59.440 --> 00:14:04.559 long as there's food supply for really big snakes, they're okay. 221 00:14:05.240 --> 00:14:08.799 But when the size of the food the available food drops, 222 00:14:10.159 --> 00:14:13.080 then they have to eat smaller prey, which they have 223 00:14:13.159 --> 00:14:16.320 to eat larger numbers of smaller prey, which may in 224 00:14:16.360 --> 00:14:20.799 fact put them at a disadvantage because snakes like to 225 00:14:20.840 --> 00:14:24.960 take in large numbers of calories all at once and 226 00:14:25.480 --> 00:14:27.559 sort of hang out in one spot for a long 227 00:14:27.600 --> 00:14:31.519 time and digest their meal, and if they have to 228 00:14:31.639 --> 00:14:34.320 eat a lot of smaller prey, then they have to 229 00:14:34.320 --> 00:14:36.960 spend a lot more time hunting. 230 00:14:38.120 --> 00:14:39.840 So it's like Thanksgiving, but you just stay in the 231 00:14:39.879 --> 00:14:40.879 living room for months. 232 00:14:41.320 --> 00:14:42.000 Yeah, I get it. 233 00:14:44.360 --> 00:14:48.519 Over a lot of stories of giant snakes eating tigers 234 00:14:48.559 --> 00:14:51.120 and elephants and large animals like that. Are any of 235 00:14:51.159 --> 00:14:52.320 those stories true? 236 00:14:52.559 --> 00:14:55.639 I wouldn't. I would hate to say that they're not true, 237 00:14:56.600 --> 00:15:01.440 but they're probably not true. Elephants, you know, a small 238 00:15:01.480 --> 00:15:08.559 elephant and a really big python. The elephant could be killed. Now, 239 00:15:08.559 --> 00:15:10.480 whether or not the python could eat it or not, 240 00:15:10.919 --> 00:15:15.519 I sort of doubt it. Sometimes snakes killed prey without 241 00:15:15.879 --> 00:15:18.519 actually being able to swallow it. It turns out that 242 00:15:18.600 --> 00:15:23.039 it's just more than they could actually handle as far 243 00:15:23.080 --> 00:15:28.679 as tigers are concerned. The sort of the really classic 244 00:15:29.240 --> 00:15:33.159 modern giant snake story that sort of kicked off I 245 00:15:33.240 --> 00:15:39.720 believe all of the other giant snake stories was a 246 00:15:39.759 --> 00:15:47.360 story that was written by somebody who was probably using 247 00:15:47.919 --> 00:15:52.639 a pseudonym is. The article was published by somebody named 248 00:15:54.279 --> 00:15:58.639 Edwin Whether in August of seventeen sixty eight. He claimed 249 00:15:58.759 --> 00:16:01.159 that he had an incounter through with a giant snake 250 00:16:01.679 --> 00:16:06.000 which was eating a tiger in Salon, which is now 251 00:16:06.080 --> 00:16:10.000 Sri Lanka. The article first appeared in a London newspaper, 252 00:16:10.240 --> 00:16:13.639 and then later it was published in Scott's magazine. And 253 00:16:13.919 --> 00:16:19.039 it's pretty obvious that the story had no real basis 254 00:16:19.039 --> 00:16:21.879 in fact, because as far as we know, tigers have 255 00:16:22.000 --> 00:16:27.200 never been present in Sri Lanka. But this story, this 256 00:16:27.320 --> 00:16:31.639 story has kind of an interesting twist to it because 257 00:16:31.720 --> 00:16:36.840 it is the first time the word anaconda has ever 258 00:16:36.879 --> 00:16:41.159 been written in the English language, and the guy called 259 00:16:41.200 --> 00:16:45.919 the snake an anaconda, And of course anaconda today is 260 00:16:45.919 --> 00:16:49.200 applied to a large boat in South America, not a 261 00:16:49.240 --> 00:16:54.159 python from Sri Lanka. So it sort of brings up 262 00:16:54.159 --> 00:16:58.600 this issue of where the name anakonda actually came from. 263 00:16:59.320 --> 00:17:04.839 And it's it's a fairly long and involved story about 264 00:17:05.000 --> 00:17:08.279 how this name originated, but it seems to actually all 265 00:17:08.279 --> 00:17:11.200 go back to a clerical error, as somebody made in 266 00:17:11.240 --> 00:17:15.559 the Lighten Museum. 267 00:17:15.759 --> 00:17:20.079 It happens, it does, it doesn't happen with the word kangaroo. Well, 268 00:17:20.240 --> 00:17:21.599 in Australia we. 269 00:17:21.920 --> 00:17:27.160 Talk about giant snakes, but besides their size, are they 270 00:17:27.200 --> 00:17:30.519 different in any particular way from smaller snakes of the 271 00:17:30.559 --> 00:17:33.119 same you know, behavior type, Like if we have constrictors 272 00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:36.279 here in Georgia, is the constrictor here in Georgia if 273 00:17:37.039 --> 00:17:39.680 basically the same kind of behavior is going to be 274 00:17:39.720 --> 00:17:43.000 taking place, only on a bigger scale. 275 00:17:45.640 --> 00:17:49.400 Okay, well, there are lots of snakes that use constriction, sure, 276 00:17:50.319 --> 00:17:53.720 not just bowls and pythons, but things like king snakes 277 00:17:53.720 --> 00:17:56.359 and rat snakes right right, which you would have in Georgia. 278 00:17:57.119 --> 00:18:03.559 And yes, I mean the constriction process is sort of similar, 279 00:18:03.599 --> 00:18:08.440 but there are differences between you know, the constriction behavior 280 00:18:08.480 --> 00:18:13.839 that's evolved in BoA's pythons and let's say king snakes 281 00:18:13.880 --> 00:18:18.200 and rat snakes. So even though it basically works the 282 00:18:18.240 --> 00:18:23.279 same way, there are probably the snakes are probably actually 283 00:18:23.359 --> 00:18:27.720 carrying it out slightly differently because constriction, it looks to 284 00:18:27.759 --> 00:18:32.319 me like, probably evolved several different times, just like large 285 00:18:32.359 --> 00:18:36.079 body sizes, you know, and snakes evolve several different times, 286 00:18:37.119 --> 00:18:40.200 probably maybe more than a dozen times. 287 00:18:40.839 --> 00:18:43.400 So are any of the constrictors venomus as well? 288 00:18:43.640 --> 00:18:46.319 No, not as far as we know. But there is 289 00:18:46.519 --> 00:18:53.160 this idea that the lizard that was the ancestor to 290 00:18:53.200 --> 00:18:58.880 snakes was really carrying the genetic material to make venom. 291 00:18:59.240 --> 00:19:08.480 That would mean that that that ancestor was passing on 292 00:19:08.599 --> 00:19:15.359 that genetic material all its descendants, and venom is actually 293 00:19:15.440 --> 00:19:18.920 an ancestral trait in snakes, which means that potentially all 294 00:19:18.960 --> 00:19:22.720 snakes are venomous. And this is this doesn't mean that 295 00:19:22.720 --> 00:19:24.839 snakes are any more dangerous than they were before we 296 00:19:24.920 --> 00:19:30.759 knew this. It just means that it explains why some 297 00:19:30.839 --> 00:19:34.279 snakes that people thought were harmless are actually capable of 298 00:19:34.319 --> 00:19:35.559 giving you a venomous bite. 299 00:19:36.599 --> 00:19:37.319 That's interesting. 300 00:19:38.799 --> 00:19:41.920 So and even if they are not, they may still 301 00:19:41.920 --> 00:19:43.319 carry the genes. 302 00:19:43.480 --> 00:19:48.759 Right, Yeah, For example, garter snakes, you know, a widespread 303 00:19:48.799 --> 00:19:52.720 group of snakes in North America. They have a gland 304 00:19:52.759 --> 00:19:56.920 that produces some toxic molecules which helps them subdue their 305 00:19:57.000 --> 00:20:02.279 their prey, and they normally, you know, would never inject 306 00:20:02.279 --> 00:20:05.960 that into a human unless, of course, you smelled like 307 00:20:05.960 --> 00:20:10.519 a frog, or if you've been if you've been handling 308 00:20:10.559 --> 00:20:12.400 frogs and you picked up a garter snake and it 309 00:20:12.519 --> 00:20:15.480 bits you, you're likely to get a dose of a 310 00:20:15.519 --> 00:20:19.839 dose of venom from it. Wouldn't It wouldn't put you 311 00:20:19.880 --> 00:20:23.640 in the hospital, but you might have some swelling so. 312 00:20:25.079 --> 00:20:30.359 Yourself with a frog, except that we just got African 313 00:20:30.440 --> 00:20:34.160 frogs for Christmas here, so that's actually a real risk, now, 314 00:20:36.599 --> 00:20:37.039 do you uh? 315 00:20:37.319 --> 00:20:40.279 Do giant snakes have natural predators besides people? 316 00:20:40.559 --> 00:20:43.880 Well, uh, certainly the smaller ones. Do you know when 317 00:20:43.880 --> 00:20:47.400 they're when they're hatchlings or after they've just been born. 318 00:20:48.279 --> 00:20:51.599 In the case of the boa is, you know there 319 00:20:51.680 --> 00:20:57.880 they can be eaten by a wide variety of predators uh, raptors, uh, 320 00:20:58.279 --> 00:21:03.720 waving birds like hair and and lots of crocodiles. Turtle 321 00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:07.359 may prey on them. But after they reach a certain size, 322 00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:12.720 you know, the number of potential predators is thematically reduced. 323 00:21:13.359 --> 00:21:16.480 So you've already mentioned it. But let's just be very specific. 324 00:21:16.519 --> 00:21:18.680 What are the biggest snakes on the planet today and 325 00:21:18.680 --> 00:21:19.640 how big do they get? 326 00:21:21.119 --> 00:21:24.359 Well, I can tell you which ones are the biggest 327 00:21:24.359 --> 00:21:27.599 ones exactly how big they get, I can just I 328 00:21:27.599 --> 00:21:32.519 can just kind of guess. The anaconda is probably probably 329 00:21:33.960 --> 00:21:37.440 one of the longest snakes, and by faring away, weighs 330 00:21:37.480 --> 00:21:43.440 the most of any other snake of equal size. Reticulated 331 00:21:43.480 --> 00:21:50.319 pythons are also probably They may get longer than reticulated 332 00:21:50.359 --> 00:21:56.160 pythons or longer than anaconda's, but they would An anaconda 333 00:21:56.200 --> 00:22:00.400 that was twenty feet long would weigh much more than 334 00:22:00.559 --> 00:22:05.440 a reticulated python it was twenty feet long. Those are 335 00:22:05.480 --> 00:22:09.359 generally the two considered to be the two largest snakes 336 00:22:09.359 --> 00:22:10.000 on the planet. 337 00:22:10.200 --> 00:22:11.400 That is large. 338 00:22:11.720 --> 00:22:16.640 Yeah, well both of those, you know. They After I 339 00:22:16.680 --> 00:22:19.319 wrote the book Tales of Giant Snakes and people would 340 00:22:19.319 --> 00:22:21.440 ask me what how big the snakes get, I would 341 00:22:21.440 --> 00:22:25.440 say twenty eight and a half feet based on a 342 00:22:25.559 --> 00:22:29.279 twenty eight and a half foot reticulated python. They were 343 00:22:29.319 --> 00:22:36.920 supposedly maintained at the Pittsburgh Zoo named Colossus. Now Colossus. 344 00:22:38.279 --> 00:22:40.720 It turns out the twenty eight and a half feet 345 00:22:40.799 --> 00:22:44.160 length on it was not correct, and when some people 346 00:22:44.200 --> 00:22:47.480 followed up on this, it turns out that Colossus was 347 00:22:48.240 --> 00:22:51.880 much much smaller than the twenty eight and a half feet. 348 00:22:52.119 --> 00:22:58.319 So the largest reticulated python is probably going to be 349 00:22:58.319 --> 00:23:02.400 somewhere in the neighborhood of twenty five or twenty six feet. 350 00:23:04.839 --> 00:23:11.079 The anakanda again probably reaches about twenty five feet, and 351 00:23:12.359 --> 00:23:16.839 past that there is the African python. Nobody has got 352 00:23:16.839 --> 00:23:19.880 a good maximum minu but probably twenty three to twenty 353 00:23:19.880 --> 00:23:25.079 four feet. The Burmese python again probably twenty four to 354 00:23:25.119 --> 00:23:33.759 twenty five feet. It's Australian scrub python in Queensland's rainforests 355 00:23:34.119 --> 00:23:37.400 has reported to get to be twenty eight feet, but 356 00:23:39.319 --> 00:23:42.400 if it got to twenty feet or twenty three feet, 357 00:23:42.440 --> 00:23:45.000 I wouldn't be at all surprised I saw that. 358 00:23:45.240 --> 00:23:51.160 I think the Bronx Zoo has a cash prize of 359 00:23:51.200 --> 00:23:56.440 fifty thousand dollars for a live snake of thirty feet long. 360 00:23:56.519 --> 00:23:59.160 That's been standing for I think the prize has been 361 00:23:59.200 --> 00:24:00.599 out there for about a hundred years now. 362 00:24:02.720 --> 00:24:03.559 But that's about right. 363 00:24:03.640 --> 00:24:06.279 Yeah, nobody's collected it yet. 364 00:24:06.079 --> 00:24:09.079 That rainforest reagent in Queensland's right when my mum looks 365 00:24:09.200 --> 00:24:10.640 off to go and pay your visiting. 366 00:24:12.200 --> 00:24:14.400 I think what's been happening is everyone's been looking for 367 00:24:14.440 --> 00:24:16.599 this snake, the thirty feet long one, and what they 368 00:24:16.640 --> 00:24:19.000 should have gotten is a good, healthy twenty five foot 369 00:24:19.039 --> 00:24:20.000 and fed it a lot. 370 00:24:20.200 --> 00:24:25.559 But well, here's the problem with that. You know, there's 371 00:24:25.599 --> 00:24:27.119 a lot of people who have tried to do this. 372 00:24:27.400 --> 00:24:29.200 Oh really, wow, Yes. 373 00:24:29.839 --> 00:24:32.160 There's a lot of people who have decided, well, I'm 374 00:24:32.200 --> 00:24:33.880 just going to go get some big snakes and I'm 375 00:24:33.880 --> 00:24:35.519 going to pack them with food and see how big 376 00:24:35.599 --> 00:24:38.519 they get. But nobody's been able to do this. 377 00:24:38.799 --> 00:24:39.079 I mean. 378 00:24:40.519 --> 00:24:43.279 And one of the issues, of course, is is that 379 00:24:43.319 --> 00:24:45.960 you really need to start with younger snakes so that 380 00:24:46.079 --> 00:24:49.400 they because when they grow fastest is when they're young, 381 00:24:50.519 --> 00:24:55.559 and a lot of these pythons can reach ten eleven 382 00:24:55.720 --> 00:25:01.000 feet at the end of their u second to the 383 00:25:01.039 --> 00:25:02.599 middle of the third year of life. 384 00:25:03.000 --> 00:25:05.920 Wow, So is. 385 00:25:05.920 --> 00:25:08.599 It feeding them that makes them large? I mean, does 386 00:25:08.640 --> 00:25:09.839 that really determine the length? 387 00:25:10.559 --> 00:25:15.400 It seems that yes, food availability seems to cause at 388 00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:22.400 least some individuals to grow faster than others. And there's 389 00:25:22.440 --> 00:25:26.240 this hypothesis called the silver spoon hypothesis that basically says 390 00:25:26.319 --> 00:25:31.960 that smaller snakes that are born when food supplies are 391 00:25:33.720 --> 00:25:38.759 readily available and abundant will grow much faster than snakes 392 00:25:39.359 --> 00:25:43.119 that are born in years when food is is not 393 00:25:43.359 --> 00:25:44.559 as readily available. 394 00:25:45.440 --> 00:25:48.839 Okay, And to go back to Colosses for a minute, 395 00:25:48.839 --> 00:25:52.160 you were talking about mistakes made are regarding its length? 396 00:25:52.680 --> 00:25:55.440 Why are their mistakes made when it comes to measuring 397 00:25:55.519 --> 00:25:59.119 snakes or exaggerations when it comes to the measurements of snakes. 398 00:26:00.160 --> 00:26:02.079 Well, first of all, I think it's very difficult to 399 00:26:02.119 --> 00:26:06.359 measure a live snake. It's difficult, Like to try it. 400 00:26:06.359 --> 00:26:09.079 It's difficult to measure a live snake that's six feet 401 00:26:09.160 --> 00:26:13.359