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<v Speaker 1>Welcome back to Babbelon via the podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>That's reaction through What What What What?

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<v Speaker 3>It? Don't swear in the first minute.

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<v Speaker 4>I know, please don't swear.

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<v Speaker 3>I saw you trying to restrain yourself.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you.

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<v Speaker 5>The Babylon podcast was our last best hope for a

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<v Speaker 5>concise discussion. It failed, but in the Year of the

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<v Speaker 5>Great Tangents, it became something better, our last best hope

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<v Speaker 5>for insight the year is twenty twenty six. The place

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<v Speaker 5>wherever you get your podcasts.

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<v Speaker 2>But we are reacting in watching episodes of Babylon five.

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<v Speaker 2>We just watched passing through get seventy guests has some

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<v Speaker 2>thoughts about it, or maybe not has thoughts.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm not sure what's happening.

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<v Speaker 4>I guess it is real nobody.

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<v Speaker 2>But my name is Jenny.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm a huge fan of the show, and I've watched

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<v Speaker 1>it through many times.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm Jen, Okay, clearly, I'm Jan I'm I'm a screenwriter,

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<v Speaker 3>and I am watching it through for the I watched

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<v Speaker 3>it back in the day and i'm watching it again

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<v Speaker 3>now and I don't remember a lot of things.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm guss. We just we just hit a minute.

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<v Speaker 6>What the fuck was I wanted to be the one.

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<v Speaker 4>What the fuck? All right? She was down? So was I.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm an actor, I'm I'm a first time What the fuck?

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<v Speaker 3>What the fuck?

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 7>Hi, okay, I'm ali I'm a showrunner, screenwriter, and actress.

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<v Speaker 6>What the fuck was that?

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<v Speaker 4>That's like the great episode? By the way, was that?

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<v Speaker 2>Uh? The Gills? I am gonna remind you about the pilot.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you have any memory of Gills in the pilot?

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<v Speaker 4>I remember people talked about Gills in the pilot. I

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<v Speaker 4>don't remember the context.

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<v Speaker 2>You car had, Yeah, panted done something for some reason

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<v Speaker 2>that he could breathe in exactly so he could breathe

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<v Speaker 2>in like Aliens.

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<v Speaker 4>Sure, yeah, so now she can go hang out with Cash.

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<v Speaker 3>Well she didn't have.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, okay, that makes sense.

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<v Speaker 6>I think that.

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<v Speaker 7>She died in that yeah, because she said, I must

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<v Speaker 7>have passed out, like now you died. That's my theory

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<v Speaker 7>and I'm sticking to it that she died in the

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<v Speaker 7>pod and they brought her back for purposes that we

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<v Speaker 7>cannot yet know. But she was desperately trying to get

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<v Speaker 7>to the Vorlons.

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<v Speaker 4>She was.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I was going to say, there's Lord of

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<v Speaker 2>the Rings all over this episode. Yeah, that actor, as

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<v Speaker 2>you mentioned, has been I can't remember his name.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh gosh, what's his name? Help me? Thank you.

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<v Speaker 2>He has been in Voyager. As you said, he played

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<v Speaker 2>a serial killer and Voyagers had who had to like

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<v Speaker 2>go through meditation and everything to suppress his urges, and

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<v Speaker 2>then in another later episode had to like use his

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<v Speaker 2>serial killer instincts to defend the ship. And like it

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<v Speaker 2>was a whole big thing of just like you mean,

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<v Speaker 2>I haven't open.

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<v Speaker 3>It was early I think it was in season one,

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<v Speaker 3>and then they brought him in and it was like

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<v Speaker 3>they were in the Delta Quattern, so they were like, well,

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<v Speaker 3>we don't, we can't. He was part of the McKee.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh that's great. He was part of the McKey.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and he had joined the Markeys because he wanted

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<v Speaker 2>to be like in a door because.

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<v Speaker 3>He liked too many people. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. And then.

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<v Speaker 2>I think Tubac helps him learn to restraint himself or

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<v Speaker 2>something teaches about to meditation. Yeah, and then later on

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<v Speaker 2>like somebody comes on the ship and he's killing people

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<v Speaker 2>and he has to kill again, and it's a whole

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<v Speaker 2>It was.

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<v Speaker 3>Like with Brad Dorrif being like super sweet and cool

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<v Speaker 3>at the beginning, of this is jarring. I mean, he's

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<v Speaker 3>he's a phenomenal actor.

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<v Speaker 4>But I'm like, that's why the eyes yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, yeah, oh right right right, yes.

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<v Speaker 2>Now I saw Ali. You were crying during this episode.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a good one.

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<v Speaker 4>That's good.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, okay, before we I mean, obviously there's basically one

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<v Speaker 2>main plot in this one, although I guess Lida.

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<v Speaker 4>Gils Sure, yeah, whatever, whatever. Yeah, DA's back and.

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<v Speaker 1>Glowing oozy things out of her eyes.

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<v Speaker 7>Yeah yeah, sure, I guess.

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<v Speaker 3>Sure, sure yeah.

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<v Speaker 4>Other thoughts about this episode really good, really really really

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<v Speaker 4>really really really good, really good, really good, really really good.

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<v Speaker 3>Directed but directed by Adam and Mooy. Who is I always.

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<v Speaker 2>I forget to say this was he is? He?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 4>Okay, he did good.

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<v Speaker 3>He did good. He did up?

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<v Speaker 4>Who wrote?

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<v Speaker 3>Uh jams?

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<v Speaker 4>This is a genus episode this season so far? You're grinning?

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<v Speaker 4>Why are you grinning? Does he write every episode this season?

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<v Speaker 3>Yes?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, okay, I guess, I guess it's time to tell

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<v Speaker 2>you that it's starting about I think the last six

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<v Speaker 2>episodes of the last season he wrote all of them.

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<v Speaker 2>He writes, and I'm gonna just he writes every single

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<v Speaker 2>episode from here until the end of the show. Except

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<v Speaker 2>for one, and I'm just gonna let you guys figure

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<v Speaker 2>out which one he doesn't want it doesn't write?

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<v Speaker 4>Is it two? Ko?

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<v Speaker 3>You know?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I will literally tell you though. That's the reason

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<v Speaker 2>I'm forgetting to check who writes, because I know it's him, and.

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<v Speaker 3>We've been I've been waiting for you guys to be like,

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<v Speaker 3>he wrote this one too. Yeah, every week in great counsel.

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<v Speaker 7>I would never have noticed, to be honest with you,

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<v Speaker 7>I would never have noticed that.

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<v Speaker 4>I also remember, way back in the day, I asked

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<v Speaker 4>you in the first episode, it's like you've seen them

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<v Speaker 4>write every episode, and Jen, you went not in season one?

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<v Speaker 6>Yeah, exactly, I remember that part.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, before we get into this, uh like into this episode,

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<v Speaker 2>then we'll explain to you how this happened, because it

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<v Speaker 2>was not like a non purpose thing. So I think, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>we talked about this recently. They got a late pickup

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<v Speaker 2>basically for season three. Would you guys know what that means.

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't know what that meant, but Jen explained it

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<v Speaker 2>to me. So they got a late pickup, and we

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<v Speaker 2>basically had to have all of the episodes like written

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<v Speaker 2>in time to start filming.

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<v Speaker 3>So JMS wrote the first several they wouldn't give them

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<v Speaker 3>a they wouldn't bridge, but the writing team, you.

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<v Speaker 2>Know exactly, and then Larry to tell you isn't working

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<v Speaker 2>on the show anymore. So he had always planned to

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<v Speaker 2>set aside some scripts for people to like, for freelancers

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<v Speaker 2>to write, but he didn't have an assistant to help

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<v Speaker 2>guide freelancers in how to write for the show. So

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<v Speaker 2>he just kept doing it and doing it and doing

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<v Speaker 2>it until the end of the season. And then once

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<v Speaker 2>season four started, the studio was like, you wrote all

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<v Speaker 2>of those ones, So I mean, we're not going to

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<v Speaker 2>hire writers because you can do it.

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<v Speaker 6>So that's let's work for the death.

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<v Speaker 4>Wait, but what about to Larry, which he was.

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<v Speaker 3>Writing another show I believe, or he was writing on

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<v Speaker 3>another show or something. I think, yeah, yeah, I'm honestly

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<v Speaker 3>not sure.

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<v Speaker 2>Actually I didn't look into that, but you we talked

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<v Speaker 2>a while back about how he and his wife separated.

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<v Speaker 2>This was when that happened around this season. I can't

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<v Speaker 2>do I can't do.

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<v Speaker 4>This, and that yeah, I'm writing, I can't do I can't.

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<v Speaker 7>I can't write this entire show and be married the

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<v Speaker 7>same time.

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<v Speaker 6>That's crazy.

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<v Speaker 2>It was a case of she was like in his

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<v Speaker 2>autobiography when he talks about it, he's like, I kind

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<v Speaker 2>of needed to separate, and she was like, yeah, we're

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<v Speaker 2>kind of separated already, Like I haven't seen you. It's

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<v Speaker 2>just whatever. His hair was not white when the show started.

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<v Speaker 2>It was white by the end of season three.

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<v Speaker 6>He got he got obamaed.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, pretty much.

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<v Speaker 6>Yes, he was under the President of the United States.

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<v Speaker 2>Members would like go to his office and leave vitamins

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<v Speaker 2>on his desk, be like we're not like something is wrong.

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<v Speaker 2>The studio made him do a take a what do

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<v Speaker 2>you call it, basically getting a stress test, like.

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<v Speaker 1>For insurance because they were worried.

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<v Speaker 2>There was an article written in one of the newspapers

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<v Speaker 2>that called him the master and slave of Babylon five.

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<v Speaker 2>Like it was. It was a thing that people were like,

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<v Speaker 2>this is.

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<v Speaker 4>Not this shouldn't be happenings happening.

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<v Speaker 7>No, capital is a crazy bad capitalism is bad, Like

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<v Speaker 7>that should not have been happening to that man.

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<v Speaker 6>That's like, actually.

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<v Speaker 4>It's honestly, because he was like, no, I'm done with

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<v Speaker 4>people side railing my vision. They were just like no, fuck,

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<v Speaker 4>you get thumbscrewed.

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<v Speaker 3>Kind of and it is I mean it's you know,

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<v Speaker 3>it's like it's such are like Ali, you know this too,

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<v Speaker 3>Like you tell somebody how quickly you can write a

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<v Speaker 3>script and they're like, oh great, then I'll give you

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<v Speaker 3>three days next time instead of the normal two weeks.

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<v Speaker 3>Like you know, like I don't tell people how fast

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<v Speaker 3>I write because then they're like, then they take advantage

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<v Speaker 3>of it. I've had that happen and and you know,

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<v Speaker 3>and it is like we've talked about it before and

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<v Speaker 3>like the Taylor Sheridan of it all and how I'm like,

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<v Speaker 3>it's so important to have voices in a room and

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<v Speaker 3>have you know, different voices. This is a show that

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<v Speaker 3>we've talked about from the beginning that like he knew

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<v Speaker 3>where he wanted to go from the beginning, and he

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<v Speaker 3>knew when he wanted to write from the beginning. I

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<v Speaker 3>I still like, you know, and it's hard when you're

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<v Speaker 3>like a showrunner running a show that's like your dream show,

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<v Speaker 3>it's your baby, and and they're saying like cool, look,

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<v Speaker 3>get going, but we don't really have the budget to

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<v Speaker 3>give you a staff. I mean, I've been in that

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<v Speaker 3>situation and I've fought for like anybody to be on

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<v Speaker 3>a staff, and like it will give you two and

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<v Speaker 3>a half people on your staff, and it's really it's hard,

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<v Speaker 3>and it is something that hopefully and thankfully like the

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<v Speaker 3>WGA has been like helping to negotiate that we we

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<v Speaker 3>don't have to take that anymore in a way. But

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<v Speaker 3>also he does know his show well enough. I mean

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<v Speaker 3>I do. I can't imagine there was a little bit

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<v Speaker 3>of like five fine final I'll just write it like

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<v Speaker 3>I know where I want to go with it.

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<v Speaker 1>Anyway, Well I'm sure that's yeah, you know.

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<v Speaker 4>I mean it's not hasn't suffered for it.

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<v Speaker 2>So.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, exactly. They have been really good, and it's like,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, and we have this we we do have

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<v Speaker 3>like the characters, the tone, the everything he wants to

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<v Speaker 3>go for. But it is just like it's such a

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<v Speaker 3>shame that he put himself in you know, like almost

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<v Speaker 3>in the hospital, like he.

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<v Speaker 6>It's really not worth it.

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<v Speaker 3>It's not worth it. And you know, like we talk

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<v Speaker 3>all the time about how right now like that it's

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<v Speaker 3>moved in some ways. I mean, showrunners still kill themselves,

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<v Speaker 3>but like it's also moved to like the effects teams

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<v Speaker 3>you know that are just like killing themselves to make

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<v Speaker 3>because ye make television on the you know, two hours

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<v Speaker 3>of television on a tenth of the budget that a

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<v Speaker 3>two hour film would take. And so everybody's working ridiculous

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<v Speaker 3>hours and cruise and you know, and especially if it's

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<v Speaker 3>a show that has effects in it, and so it's

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<v Speaker 3>you know, it's not like it's a new a new

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<v Speaker 3>problem in this industry, but also it sucks. And he

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<v Speaker 3>was like, okay, you know, I'll do let's do it.

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<v Speaker 8>I'll tell yeah, it's his baby, like he's not going

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<v Speaker 8>to give up on it, right, like, and other people

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<v Speaker 8>are relying on like it's the jobs of many people

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<v Speaker 8>and yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>But yes, yes, and he has been and we've been

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<v Speaker 3>waiting for you guys to like notice that the right

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<v Speaker 3>most of.

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<v Speaker 4>The first two season. So it wasn't that of the

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<v Speaker 4>ordinary for you to be several in a row.

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<v Speaker 1>But it's yeah, that every except for one. And I'll

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<v Speaker 1>let you guys see.

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<v Speaker 2>If you can spot the one episode now at the

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<v Speaker 2>end of the show, wrote he wrote, ninety two of

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<v Speaker 2>one hundred and ten. Oh my god, it like literally

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<v Speaker 2>broke records. I think the record has been broken since.

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<v Speaker 3>But it was like a it was a probably because

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<v Speaker 3>Taylor Sheridan writes everything for sure and so on. Sorkin's

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<v Speaker 3>name is on every episode of most almost every episode.

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<v Speaker 4>I right, right, right, yeah, good, golly, well he did

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<v Speaker 4>a good job with this one.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, I thought it was good.

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<v Speaker 2>So I really liked this episode.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I really enjoyed this episode.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's one I've talked about this, I think, on

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<v Speaker 2>this podcast before. But I often find shows where you

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<v Speaker 2>have the writer who is not Christian or not religious

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<v Speaker 2>in any way, he has a lot of trouble, Like

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<v Speaker 2>I feel like when they try and write the voices

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<v Speaker 2>of religious people like uh no, like that's no no.

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<v Speaker 2>Where this feels real like, And you know, I do

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<v Speaker 2>know that Jams had time in his life where he

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<v Speaker 2>was Christian, so maybe that's what this is. But it

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<v Speaker 2>definitely feels real.

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<v Speaker 4>Well. He seems to have a lot of respect for

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<v Speaker 4>the institution of religion, even if he himself is not

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<v Speaker 4>particularly religious. You know, he has a very good understanding

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<v Speaker 4>of it and very good, very very strong appreciation for it,

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<v Speaker 4>even if he does not ascribe to it himself, which

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<v Speaker 4>it sounds like he's not particularly religious.

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<v Speaker 3>He's an atheist.

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<v Speaker 1>Jamis explicitly an atheist.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm trying to find the quote I sent you. I

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<v Speaker 2>sent you one of the things from the Lurkers Guide

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<v Speaker 2>that he said to me. Yeah, yeah, I'm trying to

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<v Speaker 2>find it in the Lurkers Guide. Oh there, I found it, okay.

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<v Speaker 2>Is somebody says the like the comment that he was

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<v Speaker 2>replying to was the themes of faith and forgiveness. We're

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<v Speaker 2>worthy of a theologian? Are you sure there isn't something you'd.

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<v Speaker 4>Like to tell us?

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<v Speaker 2>And then he responds, I'll just read the whole response.

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<v Speaker 2>And I've lost people, too many people, lost them to chance, violence, brutality,

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<v Speaker 2>beyond belief. I've seen all the senseless and noble acts

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<v Speaker 2>of God's noblest creatures, and I am incapable of forgiving.

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<v Speaker 2>My feelings are with Jaikar, hand sliced open, saying, of

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<v Speaker 2>the drops of blood flowing from that open wound? How

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<v Speaker 2>do you apologize to them?

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<v Speaker 3>I can't. Then I cannot forgive.

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<v Speaker 2>As an atheist, I believe that all life is unspeakably precious,

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<v Speaker 2>because there it is only here for a brief moment,

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<v Speaker 2>a flare against the dark, and then it's gone forever.

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<v Speaker 2>No afterlives, no second chances, no vacsies. So there can

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<v Speaker 2>be nothing crueler than the abuse, destruction, and want and

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<v Speaker 2>taking of a life. It is a crime no less

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<v Speaker 2>than burning the Mona Lisa, for there is only just

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<v Speaker 2>one of each. So I cannot forgive, which makes the

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<v Speaker 2>notion of writing a character who can forgive momentarily attractive,

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<v Speaker 2>because it allows me to floor in great detail something

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<v Speaker 2>of which I'm utterly incapable. I cannot fly, so I

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<v Speaker 2>would write of birds and starships and kites. I cannot

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<v Speaker 2>play in instruments, so I would write of composers and dancers.

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<v Speaker 2>And I cannot forgive, so I would write of priests

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<v Speaker 2>and monks and minbari.

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<v Speaker 4>I think this guy's got promise as a writer. I

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<v Speaker 4>got some from Yeah that's pretty beautiful.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, that's like a reply on a Usenet forum,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's really fucking beautiful.

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<v Speaker 3>It's interesting because what you were just saying of like

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<v Speaker 3>clearly has some experience in a world of faith and

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<v Speaker 3>a life of faith, but he also has completely renounced it,

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<v Speaker 3>to the point where he's not only completely renounced it,

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<v Speaker 3>but he's just like unwilling to do the thing that

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<v Speaker 3>like he is saying here is one of the most

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<v Speaker 3>paramount things you can do as a person of faith,

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<v Speaker 3>And yeah, you know that. That's just He's like, I

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<v Speaker 3>will never and I can never, so therefore I'm going

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<v Speaker 3>to let other people represent that. It's really kind of interesting.

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<v Speaker 3>It's cool. It's like as opposed to like I can

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<v Speaker 3>only write what I know, it's I have to write

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<v Speaker 3>what I can't do.

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<v Speaker 4>She's crying again. She was moved by the beauty of

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<v Speaker 4>jms's thoughts.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I was talking my friend Body, Body and

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<v Speaker 2>I often get into Body, is you know, more religious

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<v Speaker 2>than me, and we often talk about that sort of thing.

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<v Speaker 2>And I am not religious anymore, but I did grow

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<v Speaker 2>up in that thing, and I when in this I

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<v Speaker 2>don't have the issue with forgiveness that JMS has, but

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<v Speaker 2>there are things about the faith that I grew up

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<v Speaker 2>in that I desperately miss, sure and I see that

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<v Speaker 2>in this like oh, longing for like a sense of

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<v Speaker 2>certainty or an understanding that I used to have that

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't exist anymore in me.

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<v Speaker 3>That is.

335
00:17:01.480 --> 00:17:04.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I see that in that phrase, in that passage

336
00:17:05.039 --> 00:17:05.519
<v Speaker 2>that he wrote.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it also makes sense to why he would come

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<v Speaker 4>up with the cheese whiz. Yeah, because it's not it's

339
00:17:12.559 --> 00:17:16.920
<v Speaker 4>it's not death. It's death. It's not death. Yeah, it's

340
00:17:16.960 --> 00:17:25.119
<v Speaker 4>like recycling. Yeah, yes, I mean respectively.

341
00:17:29.440 --> 00:17:32.759
<v Speaker 3>But it's sort of like, well, it's interesting because Garibaldi

342
00:17:32.839 --> 00:17:36.720
<v Speaker 3>makes the comment of like it being awful, we should

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<v Speaker 3>go back to the death penalty. And if JMS is

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<v Speaker 3>saying what he's saying, then he's also saying like, not

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<v Speaker 3>only is he not capable of forgiveness, he also believes

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<v Speaker 3>every life is precious. So my my read on that

347
00:17:48.920 --> 00:17:51.799
<v Speaker 3>is that JMS doesn't believe in the death penalty even

348
00:17:51.839 --> 00:17:56.559
<v Speaker 3>though he can't forgive. So he's created that works through

349
00:17:56.599 --> 00:17:57.359
<v Speaker 3>that m.

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00:17:57.519 --> 00:18:00.720
<v Speaker 2>H trying to like make that contradict sho work if

351
00:18:01.000 --> 00:18:05.160
<v Speaker 2>they have to pay, and yet making them pay would

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00:18:05.839 --> 00:18:07.039
<v Speaker 2>be also a crime.

353
00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:08.720
<v Speaker 3>Like it's trying to figure that out.

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<v Speaker 4>Well for an eye, dad, right, lenn And you're always conversation.

355
00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:17.039
<v Speaker 4>She she she she said that she said the thing.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, where is that originally from?

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<v Speaker 4>I could swear Shakespeare.

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00:18:22.880 --> 00:18:24.640
<v Speaker 1>It feels like Shakespeare, but I'm not.

359
00:18:24.720 --> 00:18:26.519
<v Speaker 3>It says it in here. Hang on, this isn't a thing.

360
00:18:26.559 --> 00:18:29.759
<v Speaker 3>I Jed's Gandhi already got there.

361
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<v Speaker 4>That's not Shakespeare. Yeah, okay, that's not Shakespeare.

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<v Speaker 2>De Lennon Gandhi, man.

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<v Speaker 4>Somebody commented. Somebody commented already. I'm guarantee you somebody commented

364
00:18:38.960 --> 00:18:39.920
<v Speaker 4>in the videos that's.

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<v Speaker 6>Gondi, in which case you always a thousand dollars.

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<v Speaker 4>My bad, you know what.

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00:18:43.839 --> 00:18:45.759
<v Speaker 2>You know what the problem is, so many people watch

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00:18:45.799 --> 00:18:48.119
<v Speaker 2>the reaction and don't listen to the podcast, and I

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<v Speaker 2>I restrain myself. But there are so many times that

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<v Speaker 2>people are like, go onto these Oh, you have to

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00:18:52.640 --> 00:18:54.559
<v Speaker 2>tell them this like we did in the video that

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<v Speaker 2>you didn't watch. Ya, just don't watch that one.

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<v Speaker 6>Yeah, it's a thousand dollars.

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00:19:01.720 --> 00:19:03.359
<v Speaker 3>You know what. We might have talked about it in

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<v Speaker 3>the meme episode. It's possible that we talked about it

376
00:19:06.359 --> 00:19:09.279
<v Speaker 3>in the meme episode. Yeah, you don't never know.

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00:19:09.359 --> 00:19:09.680
<v Speaker 6>You don't know.

378
00:19:09.680 --> 00:19:13.079
<v Speaker 2>If you don't want, you have to watch everything.

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00:19:13.279 --> 00:19:16.680
<v Speaker 7>Otherwise, if you have said something and we've already talked

380
00:19:16.680 --> 00:19:18.680
<v Speaker 7>about it, you always a thousand dollars.

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly. That's the rules.

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00:19:20.519 --> 00:19:23.079
<v Speaker 1>That's a contract to me when you watch this video.

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00:19:23.160 --> 00:19:23.839
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's right.

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00:19:25.000 --> 00:19:27.559
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, you about to be confident that we didn't talk

385
00:19:27.559 --> 00:19:28.000
<v Speaker 6>about it.

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<v Speaker 2>I cannot do this in my head. I can't make

387
00:19:34.839 --> 00:19:38.519
<v Speaker 2>the connection work. At least not while I'm thinking through

388
00:19:38.519 --> 00:19:40.599
<v Speaker 2>it now, but I feel like there has to be

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00:19:40.680 --> 00:19:44.559
<v Speaker 2>something in that conversation that Brother Edward has with the

390
00:19:44.680 --> 00:19:47.279
<v Speaker 2>lenn especially like the whole the light on the wall

391
00:19:47.440 --> 00:19:50.359
<v Speaker 2>is a projection of the soul but not the actual soul,

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00:19:50.839 --> 00:19:52.640
<v Speaker 2>and then this whole cheese. I feel like there has

393
00:19:52.680 --> 00:19:55.559
<v Speaker 2>to be a connection, but I can't do the math

394
00:19:55.799 --> 00:19:59.240
<v Speaker 2>or art. I'm not yeah, to make that work with

395
00:19:59.279 --> 00:20:02.119
<v Speaker 2>the cheese was or like the idea of forgiveness.

396
00:20:01.599 --> 00:20:05.559
<v Speaker 4>When like, yeah, kind of like it has to do more.

397
00:20:05.599 --> 00:20:07.920
<v Speaker 4>I think with his breakdown about how he's still responsible

398
00:20:07.960 --> 00:20:11.039
<v Speaker 4>for what he's done even if he doesn't. Personality wipe

399
00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:14.319
<v Speaker 4>doesn't soul wipe because if your if your soul is

400
00:20:14.319 --> 00:20:17.680
<v Speaker 4>something that is a light shone on a wall, if

401
00:20:17.680 --> 00:20:19.799
<v Speaker 4>you put a filter up, it's still the same light.

402
00:20:19.839 --> 00:20:21.440
<v Speaker 4>It's I know, the chance is the wavelength, but it's

403
00:20:21.480 --> 00:20:23.680
<v Speaker 4>the same light. So even if it looks different, the

404
00:20:23.720 --> 00:20:27.680
<v Speaker 4>same light, I think is kind of how you can

405
00:20:27.720 --> 00:20:28.079
<v Speaker 4>apply that.

406
00:20:29.519 --> 00:20:31.559
<v Speaker 3>I also think that you know, going back to going

407
00:20:31.599 --> 00:20:33.880
<v Speaker 3>back to oh what was the name of the episode

408
00:20:33.880 --> 00:20:38.039
<v Speaker 3>with the with the souls and this soul grab soul hunter. Yeah, yeah,

409
00:20:38.480 --> 00:20:41.079
<v Speaker 3>like with the soul the unter going back to sul

410
00:20:41.160 --> 00:20:44.400
<v Speaker 3>Hunter and the discovery that like you know in de

411
00:20:44.519 --> 00:20:50.279
<v Speaker 3>Lene being so like you know, every every soul is precious.

412
00:20:50.279 --> 00:20:52.680
<v Speaker 3>We believe that every soul is so precious and has

413
00:20:52.720 --> 00:20:57.519
<v Speaker 3>to be protected that there you know, I like like that.

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<v Speaker 3>Contrast with him saying I don't my soul can't be

415
00:21:01.319 --> 00:21:04.240
<v Speaker 3>forgiven because I don't even know what to ask forgiveness for,

416
00:21:04.359 --> 00:21:06.359
<v Speaker 3>because I don't remember the things that a mind wipe

417
00:21:06.400 --> 00:21:09.519
<v Speaker 3>is the worst possible thing. And then on top of that,

418
00:21:09.559 --> 00:21:12.359
<v Speaker 3>brother Theo saying no, no, no, it's out of your hands.

419
00:21:12.559 --> 00:21:14.119
<v Speaker 3>Leave it to God. He can forgive you for the

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00:21:14.119 --> 00:21:16.640
<v Speaker 3>things you don't even remember or know about, and then

421
00:21:17.079 --> 00:21:19.480
<v Speaker 3>using his like whatever I got from the Holy See,

422
00:21:19.559 --> 00:21:23.400
<v Speaker 3>I can now absolve you of literally everything, and that

423
00:21:23.640 --> 00:21:26.960
<v Speaker 3>needing to happen essentially before his soul could be collected

424
00:21:27.000 --> 00:21:29.880
<v Speaker 3>in a ball if you were going back to Theari thing,

425
00:21:29.960 --> 00:21:32.599
<v Speaker 3>and so you know, it is interesting like her saying

426
00:21:32.599 --> 00:21:35.039
<v Speaker 3>like our souls are all all souls are connected, and

427
00:21:35.079 --> 00:21:37.000
<v Speaker 3>all souls are precious, and all souls are part of

428
00:21:37.079 --> 00:21:40.759
<v Speaker 3>the same thing, even if they're split among places and

429
00:21:40.799 --> 00:21:44.240
<v Speaker 3>people and things. And so that goes back to like, no,

430
00:21:44.599 --> 00:21:48.480
<v Speaker 3>the death penalty is bad, yeah, and a mind wipe

431
00:21:48.559 --> 00:21:50.839
<v Speaker 3>is good. But is it? I don't know.

432
00:21:51.000 --> 00:21:53.200
<v Speaker 4>Well, But also you know, we got to remember the

433
00:21:53.240 --> 00:21:56.839
<v Speaker 4>Minbari apply that logic to Minbari souls.

434
00:21:58.680 --> 00:21:59.920
<v Speaker 2>Nothing the lend doesn't.

435
00:22:00.039 --> 00:22:03.640
<v Speaker 4>The lend doesn't, which might be partially, but that's the

436
00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:05.720
<v Speaker 4>only reason the end of the war, it was the

437
00:22:06.599 --> 00:22:11.960
<v Speaker 4>Minbari souls in humans they think, Jeff specifically.

438
00:22:11.920 --> 00:22:14.240
<v Speaker 6>I mean, I think, I don't know.

439
00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:16.400
<v Speaker 7>I've been thinking a lot about forgiveness recently and my

440
00:22:16.759 --> 00:22:20.319
<v Speaker 7>healing journey. Not to be like always talking about my

441
00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:22.119
<v Speaker 7>healing journey, but that's where we're at right now.

442
00:22:22.240 --> 00:22:23.680
<v Speaker 6>That's my hype of fixation.

443
00:22:23.839 --> 00:22:31.240
<v Speaker 7>So, but like the nature of forgiveness, especially like in

444
00:22:31.519 --> 00:22:34.920
<v Speaker 7>things where it's like someone has done something that is

445
00:22:34.960 --> 00:22:40.000
<v Speaker 7>theoretically unforgivable to you, or that it's like shaped you irreparably,

446
00:22:41.920 --> 00:22:44.720
<v Speaker 7>And there's just been an interesting kind of part of

447
00:22:44.759 --> 00:22:50.240
<v Speaker 7>the whole experience of like understanding that in part forgiveness

448
00:22:50.279 --> 00:22:55.240
<v Speaker 7>is so important for the individual because your nervous system

449
00:22:55.240 --> 00:22:58.240
<v Speaker 7>and your body, if you are unable to forgive and

450
00:22:58.319 --> 00:23:02.039
<v Speaker 7>let go to a certain extent, creates an overidentification with

451
00:23:02.079 --> 00:23:04.640
<v Speaker 7>the past that prevents you from creating new neural pathways

452
00:23:04.640 --> 00:23:07.799
<v Speaker 7>and moving forward with your life, right, it becomes trapped

453
00:23:07.839 --> 00:23:15.000
<v Speaker 7>in your subconscious and that subconscious patterning becomes becomes action, right,

454
00:23:15.079 --> 00:23:16.279
<v Speaker 7>and becomes instinct.

455
00:23:16.519 --> 00:23:16.720
<v Speaker 3>Right.

456
00:23:16.839 --> 00:23:20.960
<v Speaker 7>So in kind of like unpacking the past and like

457
00:23:21.160 --> 00:23:24.279
<v Speaker 7>losing identification with the past, because that's not what's happening

458
00:23:24.279 --> 00:23:29.279
<v Speaker 7>in the present, right, you have to to a certain

459
00:23:29.279 --> 00:23:31.359
<v Speaker 7>extent in order to move forward and creating new neural

460
00:23:31.400 --> 00:23:34.160
<v Speaker 7>pathways for yourself, forgive the things that have occurred in

461
00:23:34.200 --> 00:23:36.599
<v Speaker 7>the past and the people who have owned you, which

462
00:23:36.599 --> 00:23:43.000
<v Speaker 7>is a very difficult thing to do when you feel

463
00:23:43.079 --> 00:23:46.880
<v Speaker 7>that things have been very difficult. But then at the

464
00:23:46.880 --> 00:23:50.960
<v Speaker 7>same time, like, I know people who have done things

465
00:23:50.960 --> 00:23:52.960
<v Speaker 7>that are very and I won't get into what because

466
00:23:52.960 --> 00:23:56.680
<v Speaker 7>that's personal, but have done things that are quote unquote unforgivable.

467
00:23:57.440 --> 00:24:00.640
<v Speaker 7>And people's response to me, as somebody who cares about

468
00:24:00.640 --> 00:24:06.960
<v Speaker 7>that person is well, such and such like justice will

469
00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:09.359
<v Speaker 7>probably happen, and in their minds it's a justice thing

470
00:24:09.359 --> 00:24:11.359
<v Speaker 7>where they're like, they'll probably die in prison though, so

471
00:24:11.440 --> 00:24:19.519
<v Speaker 7>like it'll be fine. And I'm like, I understand that impulse, right,

472
00:24:19.599 --> 00:24:22.839
<v Speaker 7>I understand the impulse to tell me that, and I

473
00:24:22.960 --> 00:24:24.599
<v Speaker 7>understand where it comes from, and that it comes from

474
00:24:24.680 --> 00:24:27.960
<v Speaker 7>a place of like attempted kindness. But it's like you

475
00:24:28.000 --> 00:24:30.839
<v Speaker 7>start to realize, unfortunately, when you care about people that

476
00:24:30.880 --> 00:24:34.240
<v Speaker 7>have done bad things, that like those people still have

477
00:24:34.279 --> 00:24:36.279
<v Speaker 7>people that care about them. And that's a nuance I

478
00:24:36.319 --> 00:24:40.039
<v Speaker 7>never really asked to receive in my life. Yeah, ever,

479
00:24:42.039 --> 00:24:45.440
<v Speaker 7>and like I am not at a point where I

480
00:24:45.440 --> 00:24:48.359
<v Speaker 7>am in contact with this person, but like it doesn't

481
00:24:48.400 --> 00:24:51.480
<v Speaker 7>erase the fact that that person meant something to me

482
00:24:51.559 --> 00:24:53.440
<v Speaker 7>and was there for me at very difficult times in

483
00:24:53.480 --> 00:24:58.599
<v Speaker 7>my life. It also just recontextualizes that those experiences, though.

484
00:24:58.440 --> 00:25:02.359
<v Speaker 6>For me in a drastic way. So it's really complicated.

485
00:25:02.599 --> 00:25:04.839
<v Speaker 7>Life is a lot more complicated than you think it is,

486
00:25:04.960 --> 00:25:08.039
<v Speaker 7>and it takes like certain experiences for you to realize that.

487
00:25:08.119 --> 00:25:10.680
<v Speaker 7>And if you are somebody who has not experienced that

488
00:25:10.799 --> 00:25:17.279
<v Speaker 7>level of complication, I think the gift of having experienced

489
00:25:17.359 --> 00:25:21.960
<v Speaker 7>how complicated life is and understanding its nuances is that

490
00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:23.400
<v Speaker 7>you understand its nuances.

491
00:25:24.160 --> 00:25:27.519
<v Speaker 6>But yeah, but because that's the gift.

492
00:25:27.759 --> 00:25:30.960
<v Speaker 7>You encounter people who have not and they don't know

493
00:25:31.000 --> 00:25:33.160
<v Speaker 7>what to say or how to act or what to do,

494
00:25:33.480 --> 00:25:38.640
<v Speaker 7>and it's like you end up having to be the

495
00:25:38.680 --> 00:25:41.599
<v Speaker 7>one to kind of if you feel it's worth your

496
00:25:41.640 --> 00:25:44.759
<v Speaker 7>emotional labor trying to walk them through the nuances and

497
00:25:44.799 --> 00:25:49.000
<v Speaker 7>complexities of what they're trying to talk about, or you

498
00:25:49.160 --> 00:25:51.640
<v Speaker 7>just go thank you. In your mind, you just go

499
00:25:51.680 --> 00:25:53.680
<v Speaker 7>thank you very much for what you meant, which is

500
00:25:53.720 --> 00:25:54.920
<v Speaker 7>that you were trying to support me.

501
00:25:56.240 --> 00:25:58.359
<v Speaker 6>But like it's.

502
00:25:59.720 --> 00:26:04.119
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, so this episode hit pretty damn heart because recently

503
00:26:04.839 --> 00:26:09.279
<v Speaker 7>I had someone ask me if I wanted to go

504
00:26:09.400 --> 00:26:13.079
<v Speaker 7>visit this person and whether they could come with me.

505
00:26:15.640 --> 00:26:20.799
<v Speaker 6>Wow, okay, so it was really interesting.

506
00:26:20.920 --> 00:26:22.960
<v Speaker 7>That was last night, so and I was like, you know,

507
00:26:23.000 --> 00:26:28.279
<v Speaker 7>I've been unsure. Yeah, So it was a really interesting

508
00:26:28.599 --> 00:26:31.480
<v Speaker 7>It's just really interesting how people react to different things.

509
00:26:31.519 --> 00:26:34.160
<v Speaker 7>And I've just been sitting with the concept of forgiveness,

510
00:26:34.240 --> 00:26:39.559
<v Speaker 7>especially in this particular instance, and kind of going, how

511
00:26:39.599 --> 00:26:42.079
<v Speaker 7>do you forgive people that do unforgivable things to you?

512
00:26:42.559 --> 00:26:44.640
<v Speaker 7>How do you forgive people who you care about who

513
00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:48.720
<v Speaker 7>do unforgivable things? What does unconditional love actually look like?

514
00:26:50.839 --> 00:26:51.480
<v Speaker 6>And like.

515
00:26:54.960 --> 00:27:01.079
<v Speaker 7>How do you encourage people to change? And whether you

516
00:27:01.119 --> 00:27:03.039
<v Speaker 7>have any control over whether or not they do?

517
00:27:03.480 --> 00:27:06.400
<v Speaker 3>And unconditional love and forgiveness are two separate things too.

518
00:27:06.519 --> 00:27:08.920
<v Speaker 3>I mean, you can have unconditional love for a person

519
00:27:09.039 --> 00:27:13.400
<v Speaker 3>and not forgive them. That is not they're not mutually exclusive.

520
00:27:14.160 --> 00:27:18.079
<v Speaker 2>And forgive this doesn't mean that you're okay with what happened,

521
00:27:18.359 --> 00:27:21.759
<v Speaker 2>Like that's yeah, it's just the letting go, like it's.

522
00:27:21.880 --> 00:27:23.759
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, it's a complicated question, I think.

523
00:27:23.839 --> 00:27:24.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

524
00:27:24.119 --> 00:27:26.160
<v Speaker 7>For me, I've come to the conclusion that it's like

525
00:27:26.519 --> 00:27:29.599
<v Speaker 7>I wanted to not want these things to no longer

526
00:27:29.640 --> 00:27:31.119
<v Speaker 7>be a part of my.

527
00:27:32.599 --> 00:27:33.640
<v Speaker 6>Internal world.

528
00:27:34.759 --> 00:27:39.200
<v Speaker 7>And because of that, to a certain extent, you have

529
00:27:39.279 --> 00:27:41.920
<v Speaker 7>to sit with it to a point where you've processed

530
00:27:41.920 --> 00:27:44.960
<v Speaker 7>the emotions behind it and then allow it to have

531
00:27:45.119 --> 00:27:48.039
<v Speaker 7>existed and not be a part of your present or

532
00:27:48.079 --> 00:27:53.079
<v Speaker 7>inform your Like you you have to say with what

533
00:27:53.160 --> 00:27:55.920
<v Speaker 7>like Echar totally calls the pain body of it, and

534
00:27:55.960 --> 00:27:57.960
<v Speaker 7>bring your awareness to that pain body, meaning you have

535
00:27:58.039 --> 00:28:00.960
<v Speaker 7>to actually fully experience the debt of emotion that that

536
00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:05.799
<v Speaker 7>brings you and then allow it to no longer inform

537
00:28:05.920 --> 00:28:07.240
<v Speaker 7>your behavior.

538
00:28:08.720 --> 00:28:10.079
<v Speaker 6>Which is a difficult you know.

539
00:28:10.359 --> 00:28:12.079
<v Speaker 7>He's like, learn what you need to learn from it

540
00:28:12.160 --> 00:28:14.240
<v Speaker 7>and then let it go and don't let it live

541
00:28:14.240 --> 00:28:18.559
<v Speaker 7>in your body. And what I had learned from keeping

542
00:28:18.599 --> 00:28:21.200
<v Speaker 7>a lot of pain bodies in my body of like

543
00:28:21.279 --> 00:28:23.039
<v Speaker 7>things that had happened and things that.

544
00:28:22.920 --> 00:28:25.920
<v Speaker 6>People had done, and letty dotty dotty dah was.

545
00:28:25.880 --> 00:28:33.519
<v Speaker 7>That one that was not actually ever impacting that other

546
00:28:33.559 --> 00:28:36.720
<v Speaker 7>person in any way holding onto that thing at all.

547
00:28:38.759 --> 00:28:41.759
<v Speaker 7>And because they have no idea whether or not I

548
00:28:41.920 --> 00:28:48.400
<v Speaker 7>forgive them or care, right, yes, and like to So

549
00:28:48.480 --> 00:28:52.160
<v Speaker 7>it's only hurting me into like that. A decent portion

550
00:28:52.240 --> 00:28:58.200
<v Speaker 7>of my stress and illness revolved around my inability to

551
00:28:58.279 --> 00:28:58.960
<v Speaker 7>let those things go.

552
00:29:00.400 --> 00:29:00.960
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, you know.

553
00:29:01.559 --> 00:29:03.960
<v Speaker 7>So it's like at a certain point you are only

554
00:29:04.240 --> 00:29:08.359
<v Speaker 7>hurting yourself because you can't and you can't think someone

555
00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:09.160
<v Speaker 7>into being.

556
00:29:08.960 --> 00:29:12.720
<v Speaker 6>Sorry, right, you just can't. I mean, it's it's attempting

557
00:29:12.759 --> 00:29:14.079
<v Speaker 6>to control the uncontrollable.

558
00:29:14.319 --> 00:29:16.119
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I mean for Jenny who works with kids, for

559
00:29:16.160 --> 00:29:17.880
<v Speaker 3>Ali who's worked in a preschool, for me, who's worked

560
00:29:17.880 --> 00:29:20.839
<v Speaker 3>in a preschool, Like, you can't. You can't tell a

561
00:29:20.920 --> 00:29:24.480
<v Speaker 3>kid you better say sorry. There's no point in having

562
00:29:24.519 --> 00:29:26.599
<v Speaker 3>a young child say they're sorry to another kid if

563
00:29:26.599 --> 00:29:30.359
<v Speaker 3>they don't actually feel sorry for something. And it's just

564
00:29:30.799 --> 00:29:33.440
<v Speaker 3>it's empty words. It's you know, so anyway and it

565
00:29:33.480 --> 00:29:35.319
<v Speaker 3>has no meaning and it doesn't resonate with.

566
00:29:35.279 --> 00:29:38.240
<v Speaker 6>Them, no, and it doesn't mean that they're not right.

567
00:29:38.839 --> 00:29:42.119
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, Like I've always said I've said this before, I

568
00:29:42.160 --> 00:29:44.599
<v Speaker 7>think on this podcast where I'm like, I've sat with

569
00:29:44.640 --> 00:29:46.839
<v Speaker 7>some pretty dark things that have happened in my life,

570
00:29:46.839 --> 00:29:51.319
<v Speaker 7>that people have done, and I like, I've had to

571
00:29:51.319 --> 00:29:54.759
<v Speaker 7>sit with that a lot this year, and I've kind

572
00:29:54.759 --> 00:29:58.119
<v Speaker 7>of realized that, like, I have no idea the impact

573
00:29:58.160 --> 00:30:02.799
<v Speaker 7>that I've had on people, I have no control over

574
00:30:02.839 --> 00:30:06.640
<v Speaker 7>the impact that I've had on people, And like, I

575
00:30:06.960 --> 00:30:09.640
<v Speaker 7>sit with what has happened, and I'm like, I would

576
00:30:09.720 --> 00:30:12.599
<v Speaker 7>much rather be in my position than in theirs, because

577
00:30:12.640 --> 00:30:17.279
<v Speaker 7>I know, like in my heart, I'm like, even if

578
00:30:17.319 --> 00:30:21.400
<v Speaker 7>they don't acknowledge it in their conscious minds, I have

579
00:30:21.880 --> 00:30:24.519
<v Speaker 7>done enough work on my nervous system to know the

580
00:30:24.559 --> 00:30:29.000
<v Speaker 7>body absolutely keeps score and absolutely knows what you did.

581
00:30:30.279 --> 00:30:32.839
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, absolutely, which is like something that.

582
00:30:32.759 --> 00:30:36.160
<v Speaker 2>Was I mean, in a very literal way was explored

583
00:30:36.200 --> 00:30:38.960
<v Speaker 2>in this episode of being somebody who didn't do it

584
00:30:39.079 --> 00:30:41.000
<v Speaker 2>who finds out that there's somebody who did do it,

585
00:30:41.119 --> 00:30:44.319
<v Speaker 2>Like at the same time, like, how do you just

586
00:30:44.359 --> 00:30:46.279
<v Speaker 2>waking up and finding out that you have done a

587
00:30:46.279 --> 00:30:47.279
<v Speaker 2>bunch of heinous things?

588
00:30:47.440 --> 00:30:49.640
<v Speaker 7>So this episode didn't really impact me that much, not

589
00:30:49.720 --> 00:30:55.240
<v Speaker 7>at all, didn't really register, didn't really hit.

590
00:30:55.160 --> 00:30:57.039
<v Speaker 4>That hard, boring episode.

591
00:30:57.279 --> 00:30:59.880
<v Speaker 6>Why I was completely dry, dry the entire time.

592
00:31:00.119 --> 00:31:01.839
<v Speaker 7>Once they were like, we got to talk about forgiveness,

593
00:31:01.839 --> 00:31:13.839
<v Speaker 7>I was like, oh no, oh sure, because no, like

594
00:31:13.960 --> 00:31:16.920
<v Speaker 7>legit as I've been healing my nervous system hilariously, it

595
00:31:17.000 --> 00:31:20.480
<v Speaker 7>feels like like there's this weird main character syndrome I've

596
00:31:20.519 --> 00:31:23.240
<v Speaker 7>been receiving where it's like, well, it's like the things

597
00:31:23.279 --> 00:31:25.359
<v Speaker 7>I will be working on. It's like I'll suddenly be

598
00:31:25.400 --> 00:31:27.079
<v Speaker 7>reading a book and it's like, now we have to

599
00:31:27.119 --> 00:31:29.680
<v Speaker 7>talk about this thing that you have literally been working on.

600
00:31:29.799 --> 00:31:31.799
<v Speaker 4>And I'm like, that.

601
00:31:31.799 --> 00:31:34.920
<v Speaker 6>Is that is a lot like And so.

602
00:31:34.920 --> 00:31:38.279
<v Speaker 2>I was like, I call that the Volvo phenomenon because

603
00:31:38.319 --> 00:31:40.680
<v Speaker 2>when I got a Volvo, suddenly every car I saw

604
00:31:40.839 --> 00:31:41.559
<v Speaker 2>was a bulbo.

605
00:31:45.039 --> 00:31:46.240
<v Speaker 3>Right right right.

606
00:31:46.079 --> 00:31:48.200
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, And so I know I was literally on a

607
00:31:48.279 --> 00:31:51.519
<v Speaker 7>run today having a conversation with someone who isn't there

608
00:31:52.119 --> 00:31:54.000
<v Speaker 7>where I was just like, I need to like let

609
00:31:54.079 --> 00:31:56.680
<v Speaker 7>go of something that has been weighing on me and

610
00:31:56.799 --> 00:31:58.799
<v Speaker 7>we'll just talk about it even though I know you're

611
00:31:58.839 --> 00:32:02.200
<v Speaker 7>not here. But hey, we've discovered, because of quantum mechanics,

612
00:32:02.200 --> 00:32:04.480
<v Speaker 7>the particles that can impact each other from a distance

613
00:32:04.799 --> 00:32:08.119
<v Speaker 7>even if they don't see each other. So maybe somehow

614
00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:11.279
<v Speaker 7>in the ether, they will somehow know that this conversation

615
00:32:11.319 --> 00:32:12.160
<v Speaker 7>has taking place.

616
00:32:12.640 --> 00:32:15.200
<v Speaker 6>Who knows but I But I was like.

617
00:32:15.200 --> 00:32:17.440
<v Speaker 7>For my own benefit, I need to like work through

618
00:32:17.480 --> 00:32:20.359
<v Speaker 7>this on this run today. And people who passed by

619
00:32:20.359 --> 00:32:21.759
<v Speaker 7>me probably thought I was insane that.

620
00:32:21.759 --> 00:32:23.920
<v Speaker 4>I had headphones on it on the phone.

621
00:32:24.279 --> 00:32:24.680
<v Speaker 6>No, I was.

622
00:32:25.519 --> 00:32:27.680
<v Speaker 7>It was fine, Okay, sometimes you have to cry on

623
00:32:27.680 --> 00:32:32.279
<v Speaker 7>a run, and I probably and that's just where you're at. Sometimes.

624
00:32:32.640 --> 00:32:34.680
<v Speaker 7>Sometimes we were going through it. I saw a guy

625
00:32:34.759 --> 00:32:36.720
<v Speaker 7>start to cat call me and then got back in

626
00:32:36.759 --> 00:32:38.400
<v Speaker 7>his car, so act.

627
00:32:38.359 --> 00:32:42.839
<v Speaker 3>Maybe it was a power move.

628
00:32:45.839 --> 00:32:48.000
<v Speaker 6>To have a conversation with someone who's not here.

629
00:32:48.359 --> 00:32:50.680
<v Speaker 3>I've done it. I've been walking through the streets of

630
00:32:50.759 --> 00:32:53.759
<v Speaker 3>downtown to trap by myself at night, screaming out loud

631
00:32:53.799 --> 00:32:56.599
<v Speaker 3>and having a conversation with myself kept anybody from bugging me.

632
00:32:56.880 --> 00:32:58.400
<v Speaker 4>Sometimes that would work.

633
00:32:58.480 --> 00:33:01.599
<v Speaker 6>Sometimes I got so yeah.

634
00:33:01.799 --> 00:33:03.960
<v Speaker 7>Then I was like, and then we popped on this episode,

635
00:33:04.039 --> 00:33:05.799
<v Speaker 7>it was like, we're going to talk about forgiveness today,

636
00:33:05.799 --> 00:33:09.680
<v Speaker 7>and I was like, obviously, when we talk about why

637
00:33:09.720 --> 00:33:11.640
<v Speaker 7>would we talk about anything else today.

638
00:33:13.319 --> 00:33:16.200
<v Speaker 2>One of the things I really loved love in this

639
00:33:16.279 --> 00:33:22.440
<v Speaker 2>episode is seeing Bruce Sheridan, like, no, he knows like

640
00:33:22.519 --> 00:33:25.720
<v Speaker 2>he's seeing Brother Edward on the one side. Like when

641
00:33:25.720 --> 00:33:29.519
<v Speaker 2>he's yes, I'm going to say like in the obviously

642
00:33:29.559 --> 00:33:31.279
<v Speaker 2>we don't have mind wipes in the real world, but

643
00:33:31.319 --> 00:33:33.599
<v Speaker 2>like let's imagine like it's somebody who's done the work

644
00:33:33.640 --> 00:33:35.799
<v Speaker 2>and they've healed and they've gotten better, and he sees

645
00:33:35.839 --> 00:33:38.119
<v Speaker 2>them on one side, and then he sees the other.

646
00:33:38.000 --> 00:33:39.759
<v Speaker 4>Guy on both sides.

647
00:33:39.519 --> 00:33:42.319
<v Speaker 2>After like on both sides, and but he know, like

648
00:33:42.400 --> 00:33:45.480
<v Speaker 2>he only is seeing him having done the work. He

649
00:33:45.559 --> 00:33:47.599
<v Speaker 2>had a mind wipe at the very beginning of it,

650
00:33:47.799 --> 00:33:51.279
<v Speaker 2>having lived through the pain of what he did. And

651
00:33:51.319 --> 00:33:54.279
<v Speaker 2>that's that is like, that's that nuance. I feel like

652
00:33:54.319 --> 00:33:57.240
<v Speaker 2>that you're talking about of Oh, if you've seen like

653
00:33:57.319 --> 00:33:59.839
<v Speaker 2>done gone through the suffering and you meet somebody who's

654
00:33:59.839 --> 00:34:03.079
<v Speaker 2>only met the person after they've gotten like done the work,

655
00:34:03.279 --> 00:34:05.279
<v Speaker 2>you're like, no, you have to hate them, and they're like,

656
00:34:05.279 --> 00:34:09.599
<v Speaker 2>well no, because yeah, like they're a good person now.

657
00:34:09.679 --> 00:34:13.480
<v Speaker 3>And brother, you calling him out for it, like look

658
00:34:14.239 --> 00:34:19.400
<v Speaker 3>look in that moment of like what were you just singing?

659
00:34:20.760 --> 00:34:25.000
<v Speaker 4>Yes, just like it was his fucking hand, you clown, he.

660
00:34:25.000 --> 00:34:29.559
<v Speaker 3>Said, I'm gonna call him brother Obi Wan from here

661
00:34:29.559 --> 00:34:32.320
<v Speaker 3>on out though, because he just makes me I can't

662
00:34:32.880 --> 00:34:33.280
<v Speaker 3>very much.

663
00:34:33.320 --> 00:34:35.440
<v Speaker 4>Does He's always going to be draw one for me.

664
00:34:35.719 --> 00:34:36.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's fair.

665
00:34:36.800 --> 00:34:38.480
<v Speaker 4>But I like brother obi Wan as well.

666
00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:43.119
<v Speaker 7>And it was brilliant nuanced too, because I think people

667
00:34:43.119 --> 00:34:44.960
<v Speaker 7>are very quick to judge people they don't know.

668
00:34:45.960 --> 00:34:46.679
<v Speaker 6>Do you know what I mean?

669
00:34:46.880 --> 00:34:50.920
<v Speaker 7>It's a much more because I mean, listen, that guy

670
00:34:51.039 --> 00:34:54.599
<v Speaker 7>killed one person, the other guy killed nine, including somebody

671
00:34:54.599 --> 00:34:55.440
<v Speaker 7>he was related to.

672
00:34:55.519 --> 00:34:58.000
<v Speaker 4>And then I killed one person in a very targeted,

673
00:34:58.039 --> 00:34:59.840
<v Speaker 4>revenge oriented way, yeah.

674
00:34:59.679 --> 00:35:03.679
<v Speaker 7>Which you know Garibaldi probably would have been behind before and.

675
00:35:03.639 --> 00:35:06.119
<v Speaker 3>As if he Yeah, and he killed him as the

676
00:35:06.159 --> 00:35:09.199
<v Speaker 3>proxy for all of those people. Like that's the thing too.

677
00:35:09.199 --> 00:35:11.320
<v Speaker 3>It's like, we've been looking for you for nine years

678
00:35:11.480 --> 00:35:15.039
<v Speaker 3>and you represent the pain that all of us feel

679
00:35:15.079 --> 00:35:17.000
<v Speaker 3>like you didn't get the justice you deserved and I'm

680
00:35:17.039 --> 00:35:21.239
<v Speaker 3>the only one willing to willing to do the thing

681
00:35:21.440 --> 00:35:23.920
<v Speaker 3>that needs to be done. He was, in a sense,

682
00:35:23.960 --> 00:35:26.719
<v Speaker 3>he was also representing the like do you have the

683
00:35:26.760 --> 00:35:29.760
<v Speaker 3>courage to stay? Because he was there, I wasn't ready

684
00:35:29.800 --> 00:35:30.920
<v Speaker 3>to go through the act, and he was like, I

685
00:35:30.920 --> 00:35:32.119
<v Speaker 3>have the courage. I'm the only one who was the

686
00:35:32.159 --> 00:35:33.400
<v Speaker 3>courage to stay, and do it.

687
00:35:33.559 --> 00:35:36.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's almost a backwards version of like some weird

688
00:35:36.840 --> 00:35:40.239
<v Speaker 2>inverted version of Atonient, like he did the punishment, you know,

689
00:35:40.320 --> 00:35:42.599
<v Speaker 2>Jesus took on the sins of the world. This guy

690
00:35:42.719 --> 00:35:44.480
<v Speaker 2>did this sin like it was I don't know how

691
00:35:44.519 --> 00:35:45.760
<v Speaker 2>to explain it.

692
00:35:45.760 --> 00:35:47.880
<v Speaker 4>It was also, by the way, not lost on me

693
00:35:48.039 --> 00:35:51.440
<v Speaker 4>that when we get to see Brother Edward, he is,

694
00:35:52.760 --> 00:35:58.159
<v Speaker 4>you know, crucified. Yes, that was not lost on me.

695
00:35:58.960 --> 00:35:59.199
<v Speaker 6>Yeah.

696
00:35:59.400 --> 00:35:59.679
<v Speaker 3>No.

697
00:36:00.079 --> 00:36:05.000
<v Speaker 7>And it's an interesting thing of like, but there's like

698
00:36:05.239 --> 00:36:08.400
<v Speaker 7>this all these like concepts and stuff that I've you know,

699
00:36:08.440 --> 00:36:11.000
<v Speaker 7>I've been reading a lot about fucking forgiveness for someson,

700
00:36:12.800 --> 00:36:15.880
<v Speaker 7>and like, you know, there's this idea of like, you

701
00:36:15.920 --> 00:36:20.079
<v Speaker 7>know that if soul contracts exist, like, there are people

702
00:36:20.119 --> 00:36:25.800
<v Speaker 7>that enter your life to do things to you, to

703
00:36:25.840 --> 00:36:28.480
<v Speaker 7>move your soul forward in some way, and those things

704
00:36:28.480 --> 00:36:30.679
<v Speaker 7>can be really traumatic and negative. And I'm not saying

705
00:36:30.719 --> 00:36:33.159
<v Speaker 7>that like everything happens for really like la la la.

706
00:36:33.440 --> 00:36:37.400
<v Speaker 7>It's a very that's a very broad oversimplification of what

707
00:36:37.480 --> 00:36:42.000
<v Speaker 7>I think I've landed on personally. And whatever you all

708
00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:44.639
<v Speaker 7>want to land on personally is your choice. Please do

709
00:36:44.679 --> 00:36:47.840
<v Speaker 7>not come for me and my coping skill. Okay, this

710
00:36:47.880 --> 00:36:51.719
<v Speaker 7>is my coping skill and I've had a hard go

711
00:36:52.119 --> 00:36:54.440
<v Speaker 7>so I'm allowed to cope how I need to cope.

712
00:36:54.440 --> 00:36:56.760
<v Speaker 7>But like, this was an interesting thing that I stumbled

713
00:36:56.800 --> 00:37:00.199
<v Speaker 7>upon that I kind of am vibing with right now,

714
00:37:00.239 --> 00:37:06.400
<v Speaker 7>where they're like, yeah, you kind of make predetermined contracts

715
00:37:06.400 --> 00:37:10.280
<v Speaker 7>with some it's in some ways to like have certain

716
00:37:10.320 --> 00:37:12.360
<v Speaker 7>things happen to your soul for your soul to learn.

717
00:37:12.639 --> 00:37:15.199
<v Speaker 7>Right if we're like the universe experiencing itself, like the

718
00:37:15.280 --> 00:37:19.519
<v Speaker 7>universe has to experience pain, and sometimes you like do

719
00:37:19.679 --> 00:37:21.880
<v Speaker 7>sign up for those things in advance, and it's like

720
00:37:22.519 --> 00:37:25.840
<v Speaker 7>you're in a way it's empowering because you're like, I

721
00:37:25.920 --> 00:37:29.960
<v Speaker 7>am not necessarily a Things don't happen to me, they

722
00:37:30.039 --> 00:37:32.679
<v Speaker 7>happen for me. And I've gotten to a place in

723
00:37:32.719 --> 00:37:36.320
<v Speaker 7>my healing journey where I'm like, I even if somebody

724
00:37:36.320 --> 00:37:37.840
<v Speaker 7>gave me a button, it was like, you can undo

725
00:37:37.960 --> 00:37:39.559
<v Speaker 7>all the bad things that have ever happened to you.

726
00:37:39.639 --> 00:37:41.960
<v Speaker 7>I'm like, well, I would not press that button at

727
00:37:41.960 --> 00:37:44.039
<v Speaker 7>this point in my life because that would mean that

728
00:37:44.119 --> 00:37:46.440
<v Speaker 7>I am not the person that I am today, right,

729
00:37:46.639 --> 00:37:47.360
<v Speaker 7>do you know what I mean?

730
00:37:47.400 --> 00:37:49.039
<v Speaker 6>And that's what they mean when they're like it's happening

731
00:37:49.079 --> 00:37:51.719
<v Speaker 6>for you in a way, and I'm like.

732
00:37:51.800 --> 00:37:54.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's a that's a weird I have And it's

733
00:37:54.559 --> 00:37:55.960
<v Speaker 2>not exactly the same with suffering.

734
00:37:55.960 --> 00:37:58.199
<v Speaker 1>But I remember a moment in my life, you know.

735
00:37:58.320 --> 00:38:00.400
<v Speaker 2>As I said, grew up religious but also grew gay,

736
00:38:00.639 --> 00:38:01.920
<v Speaker 2>and there was a lot of my life where I

737
00:38:01.960 --> 00:38:04.440
<v Speaker 2>was trying to ungay myself. And there was a certain

738
00:38:04.480 --> 00:38:07.960
<v Speaker 2>moment in my life where I remember it distinctly being like, no,

739
00:38:08.360 --> 00:38:10.760
<v Speaker 2>because I don't know who that person is. I have

740
00:38:10.840 --> 00:38:12.920
<v Speaker 2>no idea who the person is who's not gay, and

741
00:38:13.039 --> 00:38:14.639
<v Speaker 2>me like that doesn't make any sense.

742
00:38:14.840 --> 00:38:16.840
<v Speaker 3>And it's so even and at that time I was.

743
00:38:16.840 --> 00:38:18.840
<v Speaker 2>Still religious, Like even though it's difficult and it makes

744
00:38:18.840 --> 00:38:22.039
<v Speaker 2>my life really hard, Yeah, I don't.

745
00:38:21.840 --> 00:38:22.199
<v Speaker 3>Know what to do.

746
00:38:22.400 --> 00:38:26.440
<v Speaker 7>I would not be I would be a completely different person,

747
00:38:26.639 --> 00:38:29.599
<v Speaker 7>and I honestly don't think i'd be a much worse person,

748
00:38:30.119 --> 00:38:32.840
<v Speaker 7>Like I don't think I would understand the nuances of

749
00:38:32.880 --> 00:38:34.800
<v Speaker 7>being alive and the way that I do. And like,

750
00:38:35.679 --> 00:38:38.400
<v Speaker 7>so it's it's this complicated thing where you're like, in

751
00:38:38.440 --> 00:38:43.440
<v Speaker 7>a weird way, if you are doing healing in a

752
00:38:43.480 --> 00:38:53.559
<v Speaker 7>particular way, you become almost you become understanding of your

753
00:38:53.920 --> 00:38:58.719
<v Speaker 7>experiences in a different you form a different relationship to it,

754
00:38:58.760 --> 00:38:59.400
<v Speaker 7>I should say.

755
00:39:00.079 --> 00:39:01.360
<v Speaker 6>I think it's like it's.

756
00:39:01.199 --> 00:39:05.559
<v Speaker 7>Not necessarily gratitude, but there is like an underlying layer

757
00:39:05.599 --> 00:39:08.000
<v Speaker 7>of that where you're like grateful for the person you became.

758
00:39:08.679 --> 00:39:11.519
<v Speaker 6>And it's like, okay, that's complicated.

759
00:39:11.519 --> 00:39:14.880
<v Speaker 7>That becomes even more complicated, right, like where you're like, okay,

760
00:39:15.119 --> 00:39:18.760
<v Speaker 7>so when things happen, there is an there are like

761
00:39:18.880 --> 00:39:24.360
<v Speaker 7>multiple layers to do everything. Does that make sense what

762
00:39:24.400 --> 00:39:31.960
<v Speaker 7>I'm trying to say. Yeah, it's like forming new understandings

763
00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:40.159
<v Speaker 7>for new Like when when when our dog passed away,

764
00:39:40.159 --> 00:39:43.159
<v Speaker 7>somebody said to me about grief. They were like, you're

765
00:39:43.400 --> 00:39:47.039
<v Speaker 7>you still have a relationship with that dog. It's just

766
00:39:47.280 --> 00:39:49.920
<v Speaker 7>that you're forming a new relationship with them within their

767
00:39:49.960 --> 00:39:52.280
<v Speaker 7>new identity as a dead person. And it's kind of

768
00:39:52.320 --> 00:39:54.480
<v Speaker 7>like that with trauma in a way where you're like,

769
00:39:54.880 --> 00:39:59.719
<v Speaker 7>I'm forming a new relationship with it decade a decade

770
00:39:59.880 --> 00:40:04.119
<v Speaker 7>or more or less with it now where I'm like, okay,

771
00:40:04.920 --> 00:40:09.679
<v Speaker 7>those things that have happened, like ultimately you took those

772
00:40:09.719 --> 00:40:13.880
<v Speaker 7>things and created an amazing life out of it, and like,

773
00:40:14.519 --> 00:40:17.159
<v Speaker 7>so my relationship to it is like it no longer

774
00:40:18.159 --> 00:40:23.719
<v Speaker 7>controls me. I'm empowered over it, and I'm like a

775
00:40:23.760 --> 00:40:27.159
<v Speaker 7>co creator of it as opposed to like because I

776
00:40:27.280 --> 00:40:29.480
<v Speaker 7>took it and like learned from it and created my

777
00:40:29.599 --> 00:40:30.239
<v Speaker 7>life from it.

778
00:40:31.000 --> 00:40:33.360
<v Speaker 6>And so I'm not a victim. I'm a co creator.

779
00:40:34.320 --> 00:40:35.159
<v Speaker 6>Does that make sense?

780
00:40:35.280 --> 00:40:38.960
<v Speaker 2>Just for yeah, just for clarification, because people listening to this,

781
00:40:39.079 --> 00:40:42.760
<v Speaker 2>I know it's a whole podcast, Well no, they know

782
00:40:42.840 --> 00:40:46.039
<v Speaker 2>PD that is your previous.

783
00:40:46.039 --> 00:40:49.199
<v Speaker 7>Also, do not look to me for therapy advice, Like,

784
00:40:49.360 --> 00:40:52.360
<v Speaker 7>I don't know. I'm not a professional. I am back

785
00:40:52.400 --> 00:40:55.639
<v Speaker 7>here in my nervous system, wiring it with with like

786
00:40:56.000 --> 00:41:00.320
<v Speaker 7>three manuals, trying my best. Like we're trying a little

787
00:41:00.320 --> 00:41:02.159
<v Speaker 7>bit of everything and seeing what works. But you know,

788
00:41:02.360 --> 00:41:05.960
<v Speaker 7>forgiveness has been a big uh, and like forming a

789
00:41:06.000 --> 00:41:09.440
<v Speaker 7>new relationship to victimization is a whole thing right now

790
00:41:09.480 --> 00:41:09.719
<v Speaker 7>for me.

791
00:41:09.800 --> 00:41:12.800
<v Speaker 4>So front of mind, here's something I thought was interesting

792
00:41:14.280 --> 00:41:17.320
<v Speaker 4>the first when Edward was like, nah, a guy, I

793
00:41:17.400 --> 00:41:19.400
<v Speaker 4>gotta go. I gotta pay for this. I gotta pay

794
00:41:19.400 --> 00:41:20.960
<v Speaker 4>for this. I was like, you are paying for this.

795
00:41:21.519 --> 00:41:23.960
<v Speaker 4>It's like you you are doing things, you are helping people,

796
00:41:23.960 --> 00:41:25.639
<v Speaker 4>you are doing good. That is the paying for it.

797
00:41:26.280 --> 00:41:27.920
<v Speaker 4>And then when he was doing his whole speech about

798
00:41:27.920 --> 00:41:29.360
<v Speaker 4>I got so many a there was a part of

799
00:41:29.400 --> 00:41:33.559
<v Speaker 4>me it was like, okay, but to an extent, you

800
00:41:33.639 --> 00:41:36.400
<v Speaker 4>took the easy way out by just kind of succumbing

801
00:41:36.400 --> 00:41:38.280
<v Speaker 4>to the guilt and letting these things happen. But then

802
00:41:38.320 --> 00:41:40.920
<v Speaker 4>I thought about it more because I like to think

803
00:41:40.920 --> 00:41:45.440
<v Speaker 4>about things, and I go, oh, he has he has decided. Understandably,

804
00:41:46.159 --> 00:41:51.440
<v Speaker 4>these victims' families will never rest until I am properly

805
00:41:51.519 --> 00:41:55.719
<v Speaker 4>cared for taking care of However, probably so so, because

806
00:41:55.719 --> 00:41:57.519
<v Speaker 4>at first it's like, well, you died for nothing. You died,

807
00:41:57.559 --> 00:42:00.000
<v Speaker 4>You just robbed the world of like of a wonderful

808
00:42:00.719 --> 00:42:05.119
<v Speaker 4>civil servant, you know, or Glass or a Gammi maker.

809
00:42:05.960 --> 00:42:08.000
<v Speaker 4>Then I went, oh, no, wait a minute, Okay, he

810
00:42:08.039 --> 00:42:11.039
<v Speaker 4>elected to let himself die even though he himself didn't

811
00:42:11.119 --> 00:42:15.280
<v Speaker 4>exactly carry out these crimes because these other people clearly.

812
00:42:15.840 --> 00:42:17.000
<v Speaker 3>It was for their benefits.

813
00:42:17.119 --> 00:42:20.480
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, which, yeah, completely recon sexualizes it in my mind.

814
00:42:20.559 --> 00:42:22.599
<v Speaker 4>Actually took a minute to think about it, because at

815
00:42:22.599 --> 00:42:24.239
<v Speaker 4>first I was like, well, this is nice, but I

816
00:42:24.239 --> 00:42:26.039
<v Speaker 4>don't think this was the right choice. And then I

817
00:42:26.079 --> 00:42:27.519
<v Speaker 4>was like, well, this is nice, and now it's a

818
00:42:27.559 --> 00:42:28.519
<v Speaker 4>complicated choice.

819
00:42:28.880 --> 00:42:33.280
<v Speaker 2>Well, yes, I was just gonna say, Also, I feel

820
00:42:33.280 --> 00:42:36.360
<v Speaker 2>like for him like because of the way they reprogrammed

821
00:42:36.360 --> 00:42:38.679
<v Speaker 2>their personalities, they want to live a life of service.

822
00:42:38.760 --> 00:42:41.519
<v Speaker 2>He was he was happy, Yes, right, so that for

823
00:42:41.599 --> 00:42:45.840
<v Speaker 2>him is not suffering, Like that's not punishment that he wants.

824
00:42:45.679 --> 00:42:46.679
<v Speaker 3>To Does it matter what?

825
00:42:46.880 --> 00:42:51.679
<v Speaker 4>Like I read this, I read you go ahead, then

826
00:42:51.719 --> 00:42:54.000
<v Speaker 4>I'll then I'll say, no, that's it, Like.

827
00:42:53.960 --> 00:42:56.199
<v Speaker 2>It's because that's the whole idea like that we have

828
00:42:56.360 --> 00:43:01.800
<v Speaker 2>of prisons. Should prisons before a punishment or should they

829
00:43:01.920 --> 00:43:02.719
<v Speaker 2>be for like.

830
00:43:02.679 --> 00:43:03.719
<v Speaker 3>What do you call it? What's the other word?

831
00:43:04.400 --> 00:43:09.440
<v Speaker 2>Rehabilitation, rehability, rehabilitation, And people in like you know, America

832
00:43:09.519 --> 00:43:12.079
<v Speaker 2>and Canada do a certain get get very upset when

833
00:43:12.079 --> 00:43:15.039
<v Speaker 2>they see like Nordic prisons. It's like, but they're not suffering.

834
00:43:15.159 --> 00:43:20.000
<v Speaker 4>It's like they're doing are getting mandatory. What what I

835
00:43:20.079 --> 00:43:22.719
<v Speaker 4>was gonna say was I read this hilarious. The other

836
00:43:22.800 --> 00:43:25.920
<v Speaker 4>day I saw this. It was like a tweet or

837
00:43:25.960 --> 00:43:27.719
<v Speaker 4>not not a tweet, but you know, a blue sky

838
00:43:27.840 --> 00:43:30.800
<v Speaker 4>or something that was a quote of some story from

839
00:43:30.880 --> 00:43:32.880
<v Speaker 4>some time. This is I don't know, it's it's it's

840
00:43:32.880 --> 00:43:36.519
<v Speaker 4>our it's a whatever where this guy was the story

841
00:43:36.519 --> 00:43:38.559
<v Speaker 4>of this guy. He goes a rich guy goes to

842
00:43:38.639 --> 00:43:41.039
<v Speaker 4>his rabbi, and he says, hey, you know, Rabbi, I

843
00:43:41.079 --> 00:43:42.920
<v Speaker 4>want to I want to start an orphanage and I

844
00:43:42.920 --> 00:43:45.800
<v Speaker 4>want to I want to help the needy kids. His

845
00:43:45.880 --> 00:43:48.000
<v Speaker 4>rabbi says, it's great. You should absolutely do that. You

846
00:43:48.000 --> 00:43:49.480
<v Speaker 4>should take you know, if you want to take some

847
00:43:49.519 --> 00:43:52.000
<v Speaker 4>of your enormous amounts of money and start an orphanage,

848
00:43:52.000 --> 00:43:54.280
<v Speaker 4>you should absolutely do that. And then a month later

849
00:43:54.280 --> 00:43:56.159
<v Speaker 4>the guy comes back with the rabbits Rabbi, listen, I

850
00:43:56.360 --> 00:43:59.199
<v Speaker 4>realized I shouldn't do this. I shouldn't start the orphanage.

851
00:43:59.239 --> 00:44:01.360
<v Speaker 4>I only wanted to start orphanage because it would make

852
00:44:01.400 --> 00:44:03.960
<v Speaker 4>me look better, and it wasn't for the kids. It

853
00:44:04.000 --> 00:44:05.840
<v Speaker 4>was for me. And I wanted to start an orphanage

854
00:44:05.840 --> 00:44:08.719
<v Speaker 4>for myself because I wanted people to think I was

855
00:44:08.760 --> 00:44:10.199
<v Speaker 4>the kind of guy who would make kids lives better.

856
00:44:10.199 --> 00:44:12.599
<v Speaker 4>And the rabbi says, who gives a shit? Are you

857
00:44:12.840 --> 00:44:13.559
<v Speaker 4>the kids don't care?

858
00:44:13.880 --> 00:44:17.480
<v Speaker 2>I know exactly exactly like I had that thought when

859
00:44:17.559 --> 00:44:20.679
<v Speaker 2>watching Good The Good Place. It's like Tohani did still

860
00:44:20.760 --> 00:44:23.440
<v Speaker 2>raise a lot of money, Like why is it? Why

861
00:44:23.480 --> 00:44:25.280
<v Speaker 2>does it sorry spoilers for whatever.

862
00:44:27.480 --> 00:44:28.880
<v Speaker 3>Why why is the fact.

863
00:44:28.719 --> 00:44:30.840
<v Speaker 1>That she raised the money because it would make her

864
00:44:30.880 --> 00:44:31.280
<v Speaker 1>look good.

865
00:44:31.719 --> 00:44:31.920
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

866
00:44:32.000 --> 00:44:32.320
<v Speaker 1>Right.

867
00:44:33.639 --> 00:44:36.159
<v Speaker 4>My thought process the guy was, I was like, Okay,

868
00:44:36.360 --> 00:44:38.480
<v Speaker 4>you are doing this because you were programmed to do it,

869
00:44:38.599 --> 00:44:40.440
<v Speaker 4>You're still doing it.

870
00:44:40.440 --> 00:44:44.760
<v Speaker 3>It's the opposite of impact. It mitigates intent. Like it like, yeah,

871
00:44:44.800 --> 00:44:46.880
<v Speaker 3>if you say, oh, I'm sorry, I hurt your feelings,

872
00:44:46.880 --> 00:44:49.480
<v Speaker 3>but I didn't mean to, so I'm okay, it's the

873
00:44:49.519 --> 00:44:51.320
<v Speaker 3>opposite of this. It's like, well, I didn't I did

874
00:44:51.320 --> 00:44:53.199
<v Speaker 3>this for the wrong reasons, but I still did the thing,

875
00:44:53.400 --> 00:44:57.079
<v Speaker 3>and that the thing, the action, is still more important

876
00:44:57.079 --> 00:44:58.320
<v Speaker 3>than the fact that you did it for the wrong

877
00:44:58.320 --> 00:45:01.760
<v Speaker 3>reasons because the action that's actually affecting change.

878
00:45:02.199 --> 00:45:05.119
<v Speaker 2>Right. Yeah, like that that sorry thing you were talking

879
00:45:05.159 --> 00:45:07.239
<v Speaker 2>about earlier. That's how I explained it to kids. It's like,

880
00:45:07.599 --> 00:45:09.360
<v Speaker 2>I know you didn't mean to step on his foot,

881
00:45:09.360 --> 00:45:10.960
<v Speaker 2>but his foot was stepped on. Do you think that

882
00:45:11.000 --> 00:45:11.480
<v Speaker 2>felt good?

883
00:45:11.800 --> 00:45:11.880
<v Speaker 3>No?

884
00:45:12.079 --> 00:45:14.519
<v Speaker 2>Do you feel bad that it felt bad? Yeah? Okay,

885
00:45:14.679 --> 00:45:16.920
<v Speaker 2>then you can say sorry because it felt bad for them,

886
00:45:17.360 --> 00:45:20.199
<v Speaker 2>Like you don't have to. Saying sorry does not mean

887
00:45:20.239 --> 00:45:21.079
<v Speaker 2>you did it on purpose.

888
00:45:21.280 --> 00:45:22.719
<v Speaker 4>It just means had an effect.

889
00:45:22.800 --> 00:45:26.039
<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry you had pain that I was the call like,

890
00:45:26.079 --> 00:45:27.320
<v Speaker 2>that's yeah.

891
00:45:27.079 --> 00:45:30.159
<v Speaker 4>We soon should let you guys. Great, counsel so that

892
00:45:30.199 --> 00:45:31.679
<v Speaker 4>we can do the out of there. But before we

893
00:45:31.760 --> 00:45:36.000
<v Speaker 4>do that, Lida walked out of a ore lineh rolled up.

894
00:45:36.079 --> 00:45:38.599
<v Speaker 4>Yeah yeah, I threatened to ship out of Lano A

895
00:45:38.639 --> 00:45:41.880
<v Speaker 4>plus amazing scene. God bless Patricia Talman. She's my favorite

896
00:45:41.880 --> 00:45:46.320
<v Speaker 4>person in the world. I love Talia Winters Andrea Thompson

897
00:45:46.760 --> 00:45:51.960
<v Speaker 4>great whatever, Yeah, sure, okay, Patricia Tomman leda Alexander a.

898
00:45:51.920 --> 00:45:53.360
<v Speaker 1>Fight while we have the great cancel.

899
00:45:53.400 --> 00:45:56.639
<v Speaker 4>I can see it right now, you know, fictional, Well

900
00:45:56.679 --> 00:45:57.199
<v Speaker 4>you know what I mean.

901
00:45:57.360 --> 00:46:00.280
<v Speaker 2>Yes, no, no, no, I'm talking between it's Alia and Da

902
00:46:00.440 --> 00:46:08.000
<v Speaker 2>that's gonna be the fighting or Talia Alida Alia.

903
00:46:08.760 --> 00:46:11.199
<v Speaker 6>She's my favorite person in the world and.

904
00:46:12.679 --> 00:46:16.239
<v Speaker 4>His wife I feel how do you feel about Talia

905
00:46:16.239 --> 00:46:19.000
<v Speaker 4>Winter's Alley favorite person in the world. There you go,

906
00:46:19.039 --> 00:46:20.400
<v Speaker 4>there you uh?

907
00:46:20.440 --> 00:46:21.280
<v Speaker 9>And then she was.

908
00:46:21.280 --> 00:46:26.440
<v Speaker 4>She was getting vorlon directly applied directly to the forehead.

909
00:46:26.400 --> 00:46:29.000
<v Speaker 7>And it was it being sucked into her or was

910
00:46:29.039 --> 00:46:30.920
<v Speaker 7>she being sucked into it? It came out of her

911
00:46:31.159 --> 00:46:32.840
<v Speaker 7>which direction where we're going.

912
00:46:34.440 --> 00:46:37.920
<v Speaker 4>And now directly into and she got the fucking gills

913
00:46:37.920 --> 00:46:40.440
<v Speaker 4>and we're right into Caush's fucking face hole.

914
00:46:40.920 --> 00:46:43.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I'm looking for my closest dark crystal toys which

915
00:46:43.760 --> 00:46:46.519
<v Speaker 3>are actually not reachable, but yet she was giving the

916
00:46:46.599 --> 00:46:50.480
<v Speaker 3>essence sucked out of her like a gulfling? What adling?

917
00:46:59.719 --> 00:47:02.199
<v Speaker 4>What a fuck? Who was any of that? Yeah, she's

918
00:47:02.280 --> 00:47:06.280
<v Speaker 4>clearly addicted to Vorlon or on Vorlon life support or something,

919
00:47:06.760 --> 00:47:09.719
<v Speaker 4>or CAUs is like vamporizing her. Is this like a

920
00:47:09.800 --> 00:47:12.599
<v Speaker 4>fucking White Court vampire sort of thing? Do people get

921
00:47:12.639 --> 00:47:15.079
<v Speaker 4>addicted to the Vorlons and then they have to follow

922
00:47:15.159 --> 00:47:17.519
<v Speaker 4>around and the Borlon's feet off of their energy?

923
00:47:17.920 --> 00:47:20.960
<v Speaker 7>Is this a fucking tom and assuming dress and angels

924
00:47:21.079 --> 00:47:22.639
<v Speaker 7>that it's not a negative thing.

925
00:47:22.880 --> 00:47:24.719
<v Speaker 4>I don't know. It looked pretty bad.

926
00:47:25.440 --> 00:47:28.639
<v Speaker 6>I don't think it was that I'd look good. I

927
00:47:28.760 --> 00:47:31.880
<v Speaker 6>think I think it's possible that he just kind of,

928
00:47:32.000 --> 00:47:34.000
<v Speaker 6>like you know, gets carried around.

929
00:47:34.039 --> 00:47:36.559
<v Speaker 4>He used the brain suck monster after all.

930
00:47:36.719 --> 00:47:40.679
<v Speaker 7>Sorry, go ahead, And maybe sometimes he needs to be

931
00:47:40.880 --> 00:47:44.920
<v Speaker 7>incognito and he needs to just occupy somebody's mind for

932
00:47:44.920 --> 00:47:45.400
<v Speaker 7>a little while.

933
00:47:45.440 --> 00:47:47.480
<v Speaker 4>Is he just riding her around like a flesh puppet?

934
00:47:47.599 --> 00:47:50.360
<v Speaker 6>Yeah kind of think so that's my theory.

935
00:47:50.719 --> 00:47:51.400
<v Speaker 3>Flesh puppet.

936
00:47:51.960 --> 00:47:54.199
<v Speaker 4>Okay, what's that cool? Well?

937
00:47:54.360 --> 00:47:57.480
<v Speaker 6>I think they brought her back to life in exchange, like.

938
00:47:59.039 --> 00:47:59.920
<v Speaker 4>You're gonna be little.

939
00:48:00.159 --> 00:48:04.039
<v Speaker 7>Orleans have a history of using people to their purposes,

940
00:48:04.119 --> 00:48:07.159
<v Speaker 7>right with Jack the Ripper as an example. Right, Lada

941
00:48:07.239 --> 00:48:12.119
<v Speaker 7>the Ripper needs to be present in order to help

942
00:48:12.239 --> 00:48:15.840
<v Speaker 7>them do something, maybe fight the csichor.

943
00:48:17.719 --> 00:48:22.320
<v Speaker 4>It's weird. Oh wait a minute, Oh the cash will

944
00:48:22.360 --> 00:48:26.239
<v Speaker 4>protect me because okay, because he's in her is she

945
00:48:26.440 --> 00:48:27.760
<v Speaker 4>just carrying caush arounds?

946
00:48:28.679 --> 00:48:28.880
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

947
00:48:28.960 --> 00:48:30.639
<v Speaker 4>Sometimes he's just carrying cash around.

948
00:48:31.320 --> 00:48:34.239
<v Speaker 6>I think sometimes weird. I think sometimes she's a flash,

949
00:48:34.599 --> 00:48:35.519
<v Speaker 6>like she's a mean suit.

950
00:48:37.159 --> 00:48:40.400
<v Speaker 7>Like okay, like theoretically right that like Lowy's stuff is

951
00:48:40.440 --> 00:48:45.280
<v Speaker 7>probably like soul as example, right, I mean that they're

952
00:48:45.400 --> 00:48:47.760
<v Speaker 7>usually sold talking about.

953
00:48:48.440 --> 00:48:53.679
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, kaush dar Huran, what's going on? Like like like

954
00:48:53.840 --> 00:48:55.840
<v Speaker 4>another wheel of time reference. I'm sorry for all the

955
00:48:55.880 --> 00:48:56.880
<v Speaker 4>non wheel of time people.

956
00:48:57.079 --> 00:49:00.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, So keep all.

957
00:49:00.440 --> 00:49:03.079
<v Speaker 4>This in the comment comments about how much you hate

958
00:49:03.119 --> 00:49:06.519
<v Speaker 4>the wheel of time at us because it helps stop

959
00:49:06.599 --> 00:49:07.239
<v Speaker 4>talking about it.

960
00:49:07.360 --> 00:49:09.800
<v Speaker 3>We know, we know we're not going to stop talking

961
00:49:09.840 --> 00:49:10.119
<v Speaker 3>about it.

962
00:49:10.199 --> 00:49:16.719
<v Speaker 4>We're not going to I'm sorry, best I can okay, okay.

963
00:49:16.679 --> 00:49:18.840
<v Speaker 1>Well, but I do want to get to the Great Cantil.

964
00:49:18.880 --> 00:49:20.559
<v Speaker 1>But there's like three other things I want to talk

965
00:49:20.599 --> 00:49:20.760
<v Speaker 1>to you.

966
00:49:20.760 --> 00:49:24.280
<v Speaker 6>Guys, say, I can't remember what I got interrupted.

967
00:49:24.320 --> 00:49:25.599
<v Speaker 4>I can't remember it all.

968
00:49:26.079 --> 00:49:28.760
<v Speaker 6>Okay, probably wasn't that important.

969
00:49:28.800 --> 00:49:29.199
<v Speaker 3>That's all right.

970
00:49:30.320 --> 00:49:31.760
<v Speaker 1>The first one is going to be real quick.

971
00:49:31.800 --> 00:49:33.440
<v Speaker 2>I just always thought it was a funny thing that

972
00:49:33.760 --> 00:49:35.679
<v Speaker 2>brother Edward says at the very beginning of the episode

973
00:49:35.679 --> 00:49:38.000
<v Speaker 2>where they're joking about gambling, He's like, I've always done.

974
00:49:38.000 --> 00:49:39.199
<v Speaker 3>If you want to go for the sin, you got

975
00:49:39.320 --> 00:49:39.960
<v Speaker 3>to go for the big one.

976
00:49:40.000 --> 00:49:44.480
<v Speaker 4>I'm like, oh, serial killer, Yeah yeah yeah.

977
00:49:45.159 --> 00:49:47.719
<v Speaker 2>The second big thing I want to talk about is

978
00:49:47.800 --> 00:49:50.360
<v Speaker 2>this episode almost didn't happen, and people, I bet you

979
00:49:50.400 --> 00:49:51.920
<v Speaker 2>there've already been comments with people.

980
00:49:51.840 --> 00:49:52.119
<v Speaker 3>Telling you.

981
00:49:54.440 --> 00:49:55.519
<v Speaker 4>The Patreon right now.

982
00:49:56.679 --> 00:50:02.719
<v Speaker 2>Yes, exactly. The reason this episode almost didn't happen is

983
00:50:02.760 --> 00:50:05.239
<v Speaker 2>because of something we've talked about before is he started

984
00:50:05.280 --> 00:50:08.280
<v Speaker 2>writing this episode, I think in season two, and somebody

985
00:50:08.440 --> 00:50:11.559
<v Speaker 2>accidentally suggested the concept of the episode.

986
00:50:11.159 --> 00:50:13.400
<v Speaker 1>To him while he was writing it, and he was.

987
00:50:13.400 --> 00:50:18.119
<v Speaker 2>Like, fuck, I can't write it now because like they're

988
00:50:18.159 --> 00:50:19.719
<v Speaker 2>gonna think that I wrote them, and then it's going

989
00:50:19.800 --> 00:50:22.039
<v Speaker 2>to be a whole big thing. He literally got them, it,

990
00:50:22.079 --> 00:50:25.840
<v Speaker 2>says finally, very chagrined over what happened, the individual gave

991
00:50:25.920 --> 00:50:29.400
<v Speaker 2>me a notarized form explaining the situation, and at that

992
00:50:29.559 --> 00:50:31.039
<v Speaker 2>point he was able to reactivate.

993
00:50:31.119 --> 00:50:33.719
<v Speaker 4>Sorry, this is why, this is why writers can't listen

994
00:50:33.719 --> 00:50:34.679
<v Speaker 4>to other people's ideas.

995
00:50:34.920 --> 00:50:36.639
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, this is why you can't.

996
00:50:36.960 --> 00:50:37.719
<v Speaker 4>This is why you can't.

997
00:50:38.000 --> 00:50:41.039
<v Speaker 3>This is why we can't take that story ideas ever ever, ever.

998
00:50:41.280 --> 00:50:43.639
<v Speaker 7>Ever, ever, ever had people pitched up to me and

999
00:50:43.679 --> 00:50:45.599
<v Speaker 7>I'm like, I have to interrupt you right here, because

1000
00:50:46.199 --> 00:50:48.920
<v Speaker 7>you're we're going down a path of something I'm already

1001
00:50:48.960 --> 00:50:49.639
<v Speaker 7>actively working on.

1002
00:50:49.760 --> 00:50:51.639
<v Speaker 4>Glad we got to write it because this was a banger,

1003
00:50:52.519 --> 00:50:54.679
<v Speaker 4>not just because Leada came back and the fucking Gils

1004
00:50:54.719 --> 00:50:55.239
<v Speaker 4>what the fuck?

1005
00:50:56.639 --> 00:50:59.199
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, but he literally had to get like a

1006
00:50:59.360 --> 00:51:02.320
<v Speaker 2>notarized form from them explaining it. It was like, it's

1007
00:51:02.440 --> 00:51:03.239
<v Speaker 2>just this whole thing.

1008
00:51:04.199 --> 00:51:08.320
<v Speaker 6>I just decided to leader Leader yeah, because like why.

1009
00:51:08.880 --> 00:51:12.559
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's kind of a New Zealand version of Leader

1010
00:51:12.760 --> 00:51:15.480
<v Speaker 3>Leader Leader it does yeah yeah.

1011
00:51:16.480 --> 00:51:18.840
<v Speaker 2>And then the final thing, I want to ask if

1012
00:51:18.880 --> 00:51:21.199
<v Speaker 2>you have any thoughts about we got You were very

1013
00:51:21.280 --> 00:51:23.400
<v Speaker 2>interested while it happened, but then the episode is really

1014
00:51:23.400 --> 00:51:24.360
<v Speaker 2>good and you forgot about it.

1015
00:51:24.719 --> 00:51:28.079
<v Speaker 3>The lore that was dropped years ago.

1016
00:51:32.079 --> 00:51:37.760
<v Speaker 4>May not of Minbari, what the would not women born women?

1017
00:51:38.400 --> 00:51:42.440
<v Speaker 4>But he was human? Was he transmuted from another species?

1018
00:51:42.760 --> 00:51:43.360
<v Speaker 2>Is this the thing?

1019
00:51:43.639 --> 00:51:45.239
<v Speaker 4>Is this like a Jeff kind of thing where he

1020
00:51:45.360 --> 00:51:47.199
<v Speaker 4>was born into another another species?

1021
00:51:47.400 --> 00:51:53.280
<v Speaker 3>I mean, we did that stantiation, but we did we

1022
00:51:53.360 --> 00:51:56.119
<v Speaker 3>did have we did have this in the same episode

1023
00:51:56.119 --> 00:52:00.760
<v Speaker 3>that was very Jesus heavy and there's a like, yeah,

1024
00:52:00.880 --> 00:52:01.960
<v Speaker 3>so it's like of.

1025
00:52:02.119 --> 00:52:03.079
<v Speaker 9>Me but not of me?

1026
00:52:03.320 --> 00:52:06.039
<v Speaker 4>And was he soul born into another body like a

1027
00:52:06.119 --> 00:52:06.880
<v Speaker 4>Jeff kind of thing?

1028
00:52:08.679 --> 00:52:08.800
<v Speaker 2>Was he?

1029
00:52:09.119 --> 00:52:09.960
<v Speaker 4>Maybe? Was he?

1030
00:52:10.000 --> 00:52:10.159
<v Speaker 3>Wait?

1031
00:52:10.199 --> 00:52:14.079
<v Speaker 4>What did you say born into another memory? Sold into

1032
00:52:14.119 --> 00:52:17.239
<v Speaker 4>another body? Because that's what like the same kind of

1033
00:52:17.320 --> 00:52:18.119
<v Speaker 4>thing is with Jeff.

1034
00:52:18.639 --> 00:52:23.079
<v Speaker 1>Right, Okay, I mean I know the answer. I'm these

1035
00:52:23.119 --> 00:52:24.920
<v Speaker 1>are very right.

1036
00:52:25.880 --> 00:52:31.519
<v Speaker 4>If that's Minbari not of Minbari, I don't know. Maybe

1037
00:52:32.039 --> 00:52:32.880
<v Speaker 4>yeah that could work.

1038
00:52:33.119 --> 00:52:38.360
<v Speaker 3>Yeah did work? Yeah? No, I know, Okay, I know what.

1039
00:52:38.400 --> 00:52:40.320
<v Speaker 3>I'm like, you're saying it, and I'm like totally getting

1040
00:52:40.559 --> 00:52:43.320
<v Speaker 3>I'm getting distracted because I'm hearing of the Ayel and

1041
00:52:43.440 --> 00:52:43.800
<v Speaker 3>not of the.

1042
00:52:46.119 --> 00:52:46.559
<v Speaker 4>What is that?

1043
00:52:46.880 --> 00:52:50.119
<v Speaker 3>Why is that? I was doing? I know more wheel Tip.

1044
00:52:50.239 --> 00:52:51.239
<v Speaker 3>It's the nineties.

1045
00:52:51.440 --> 00:52:54.280
<v Speaker 2>It's the nineties, and all these male writers writing in

1046
00:52:54.360 --> 00:52:56.480
<v Speaker 2>the nineties the exact same story.

1047
00:52:57.960 --> 00:53:01.719
<v Speaker 3>Of the blood, but raised not of the bloud. He's blood. Yes,

1048
00:53:04.159 --> 00:53:04.840
<v Speaker 3>three hundred years.

1049
00:53:05.239 --> 00:53:06.880
<v Speaker 2>We actually looked earlier.

1050
00:53:08.400 --> 00:53:10.960
<v Speaker 3>Okay, yeah they lived no, not that not that long.

1051
00:53:11.039 --> 00:53:13.719
<v Speaker 2>But they live longer than humans, but not they're not

1052
00:53:13.960 --> 00:53:16.199
<v Speaker 2>like not thousands of years.

1053
00:53:16.199 --> 00:53:21.639
<v Speaker 4>Okay, So he was around a thousand years ago? Yeah, possibly, Jeff.

1054
00:53:21.480 --> 00:53:27.239
<v Speaker 2>Style mm hmm, had we had We've heard the number

1055
00:53:27.280 --> 00:53:30.079
<v Speaker 2>one thousand before, like a thousand years ago.

1056
00:53:30.039 --> 00:53:32.960
<v Speaker 3>Before we have got from.

1057
00:53:35.440 --> 00:53:38.480
<v Speaker 4>I was gonna say shadows, shadows. Okay, so he was

1058
00:53:38.519 --> 00:53:41.840
<v Speaker 4>around for shadow time. Okay, he was there when the

1059
00:53:41.880 --> 00:53:42.800
<v Speaker 4>shadow Man came.

1060
00:53:42.960 --> 00:53:45.599
<v Speaker 2>Okay, okay, the shadow Man.

1061
00:53:48.400 --> 00:53:51.079
<v Speaker 4>They came and they stole the shadow Man.

1062
00:53:52.880 --> 00:53:56.119
<v Speaker 3>Uh, bring me a shadow.

1063
00:54:01.800 --> 00:54:04.760
<v Speaker 4>Okay. They can can they track soul? They can kind

1064
00:54:04.760 --> 00:54:08.039
<v Speaker 4>of track souls? No, they can't track souls? Can they

1065
00:54:08.119 --> 00:54:08.480
<v Speaker 4>kind of try?

1066
00:54:10.079 --> 00:54:15.960
<v Speaker 3>Oh them just like your car? Yes, can trap them

1067
00:54:15.960 --> 00:54:16.840
<v Speaker 3>in little glass balls.

1068
00:54:16.920 --> 00:54:18.840
<v Speaker 4>They trap him and little No the guy did hi

1069
00:54:18.960 --> 00:54:20.119
<v Speaker 4>peity Hello, oh God?

1070
00:54:20.199 --> 00:54:26.199
<v Speaker 2>Okay, okay, Wow, we talked about the tracking souls before,

1071
00:54:26.320 --> 00:54:29.239
<v Speaker 2>but we never fully decided on Wow, he just fully

1072
00:54:29.320 --> 00:54:30.159
<v Speaker 2>decided here.

1073
00:54:30.280 --> 00:54:31.840
<v Speaker 3>Now can join us? Yeah.

1074
00:54:34.599 --> 00:54:35.960
<v Speaker 4>They bring up Balen a lot.

1075
00:54:39.639 --> 00:54:42.880
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, sorry, Bobby, you can go back down. I'm sorry,

1076
00:54:43.039 --> 00:54:44.000
<v Speaker 6>I need to grab your face.

1077
00:54:45.440 --> 00:54:47.760
<v Speaker 4>How many times is Valain come up?

1078
00:54:50.880 --> 00:54:56.679
<v Speaker 3>And isn't that what what Lanier said? When when didn't

1079
00:54:56.719 --> 00:55:03.000
<v Speaker 3>he say Valen? When when Cosh turned into an angel's name.

1080
00:55:05.239 --> 00:55:07.280
<v Speaker 4>Name or something like?

1081
00:55:07.400 --> 00:55:10.239
<v Speaker 3>I think he said Valerio Valria. That's right, that's what.

1082
00:55:10.400 --> 00:55:14.639
<v Speaker 4>That's always fucking Valeria Valeria and the Valor and Valen.

1083
00:55:14.719 --> 00:55:16.840
<v Speaker 4>It's always v A L. What do these science fiction

1084
00:55:16.960 --> 00:55:19.360
<v Speaker 4>fantasy writers have with V A L? What is going on?

1085
00:55:21.039 --> 00:55:23.719
<v Speaker 2>It sounds, it feels very it feels very good in

1086
00:55:23.800 --> 00:55:34.239
<v Speaker 2>your mouth. Hilarious speaking of things that feel good in

1087
00:55:34.280 --> 00:55:34.639
<v Speaker 2>your mouth.

1088
00:55:34.719 --> 00:55:43.760
<v Speaker 3>Anyway, thank you for but finishing. I'm sorry.

1089
00:55:47.239 --> 00:55:52.880
<v Speaker 2>Definitely getting the explicit tag unemployable. Yes, hey, I'm not

1090
00:55:52.960 --> 00:55:54.599
<v Speaker 2>trying to work in the entertainment industry.

1091
00:55:56.000 --> 00:55:56.440
<v Speaker 3>Is cool?

1092
00:55:57.519 --> 00:55:58.480
<v Speaker 2>I have an avatar.

1093
00:55:58.639 --> 00:55:59.480
<v Speaker 1>They can't see my.

1094
00:56:02.440 --> 00:56:04.679
<v Speaker 4>Okay, yeah, I don't know Valaen. I don't know what else.

1095
00:56:04.679 --> 00:56:06.239
<v Speaker 4>This is the one thing that I can't figure it.

1096
00:56:06.360 --> 00:56:08.840
<v Speaker 4>I don't know he apparently he did it. He was.

1097
00:56:13.679 --> 00:56:15.960
<v Speaker 2>No, sorry, your face got real serious.

1098
00:56:16.079 --> 00:56:16.920
<v Speaker 3>I was like, what happened?

1099
00:56:17.000 --> 00:56:19.440
<v Speaker 4>No, no, no, no, never mind, it's not worth following.

1100
00:56:20.719 --> 00:56:25.000
<v Speaker 4>I don't think it's well, no, it's a stretch. It

1101
00:56:25.039 --> 00:56:25.559
<v Speaker 4>doesn't matter.

1102
00:56:28.360 --> 00:56:31.079
<v Speaker 1>Okay, I wanted to stretch, but never mind, I won't

1103
00:56:31.159 --> 00:56:33.599
<v Speaker 1>force the stretch because she never forced the stretch.

1104
00:56:33.639 --> 00:56:35.880
<v Speaker 3>It's bad, but I most only we had a telepath

1105
00:56:35.960 --> 00:56:39.960
<v Speaker 3>in the room who couldn't no, no, no, thank you.

1106
00:56:40.800 --> 00:56:45.599
<v Speaker 6>Let it go, or I'll burn every synaps you have.

1107
00:56:48.360 --> 00:56:49.199
<v Speaker 4>That was a good scene.

1108
00:56:49.239 --> 00:56:51.679
<v Speaker 2>I like that one. I like her.

1109
00:56:52.159 --> 00:56:56.400
<v Speaker 4>She's cool. No, yeah, Valain came up, did a Jeff thing.

1110
00:56:56.480 --> 00:57:01.280
<v Speaker 4>I guess maybe a thousand years ago he did a

1111
00:57:01.400 --> 00:57:03.280
<v Speaker 4>Jeff thing, did a Jeff thing. If he was if

1112
00:57:03.320 --> 00:57:09.000
<v Speaker 4>he was a Minbarry, she put out of him. No,

1113
00:57:09.119 --> 00:57:11.159
<v Speaker 4>if he was, if he was of the Minbari but

1114
00:57:11.280 --> 00:57:13.079
<v Speaker 4>not he was the Minbari but not of the Minbari,

1115
00:57:13.119 --> 00:57:15.760
<v Speaker 4>then it would make sense he was born into another

1116
00:57:15.800 --> 00:57:20.079
<v Speaker 4>species the same way that the minbar and Jeff.

1117
00:57:22.360 --> 00:57:25.360
<v Speaker 3>They just discovered that. Like I have to just say, like,

1118
00:57:26.400 --> 00:57:28.559
<v Speaker 3>maybe they just discovered that and they never understood what

1119
00:57:28.639 --> 00:57:30.920
<v Speaker 3>it meant, like word of the blood rates blood or whatever,

1120
00:57:31.679 --> 00:57:33.480
<v Speaker 3>because Liner said it like he's been like saying it

1121
00:57:33.519 --> 00:57:34.039
<v Speaker 3>his whole life.

1122
00:57:34.400 --> 00:57:38.360
<v Speaker 4>Yes, but maybe they were like humans really, you know,

1123
00:57:38.639 --> 00:57:40.400
<v Speaker 4>because I feel like that's kind of thing where if

1124
00:57:40.400 --> 00:57:42.880
<v Speaker 4>it had been happening elsewhere, they were like, yeah, sure,

1125
00:57:43.000 --> 00:57:46.440
<v Speaker 4>you know, this happens every now and again humans, What

1126
00:57:46.679 --> 00:57:47.119
<v Speaker 4>the fuck?

1127
00:57:47.480 --> 00:57:47.719
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

1128
00:57:48.079 --> 00:57:51.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah right right, so okay, I could see that

1129
00:57:52.480 --> 00:57:53.559
<v Speaker 1>that those are all the things.

1130
00:57:53.639 --> 00:57:56.119
<v Speaker 2>I literally highlighted them in my notes because the amount

1131
00:57:56.119 --> 00:57:57.880
<v Speaker 2>of times I've gotten to Great Council and realized I

1132
00:57:58.000 --> 00:57:59.519
<v Speaker 2>forgot to ask you something.

1133
00:58:01.519 --> 00:58:04.199
<v Speaker 3>Something. When you listen to Great Council, you'll hear Jenny say,

1134
00:58:04.239 --> 00:58:05.880
<v Speaker 3>oh shit, I forgot to ask them about the.

1135
00:58:05.920 --> 00:58:09.239
<v Speaker 4>Thing, like we'll be back. We'll be back in like

1136
00:58:09.440 --> 00:58:10.159
<v Speaker 4>thirty minutes.

1137
00:58:10.440 --> 00:58:15.000
<v Speaker 1>That's true, probably yes, yes, so yeah, so go away

1138
00:58:15.199 --> 00:58:16.119
<v Speaker 1>not PDPD can.

1139
00:58:16.079 --> 00:58:18.519
<v Speaker 4>See he can stay with the camera on the seat.

1140
00:58:19.679 --> 00:58:26.159
<v Speaker 4>O cay f, I'm talking about my friends.

1141
00:58:26.880 --> 00:58:29.679
<v Speaker 9>You have reached the most dangerous part of our journey,

1142
00:58:30.400 --> 00:58:34.599
<v Speaker 9>the Gray Council. Here we speak of things that must

1143
00:58:34.679 --> 00:58:41.519
<v Speaker 9>not be spoken, secrets, betrayals, spoilers. If you are not ready,

1144
00:58:42.360 --> 00:58:46.800
<v Speaker 9>turned back now that if you dare to proceed, I

1145
00:58:47.280 --> 00:58:48.960
<v Speaker 9>promise you it will be.

1146
00:58:50.880 --> 00:58:55.440
<v Speaker 4>Manificent. We forget a baldy.

1147
00:58:57.880 --> 00:58:59.000
<v Speaker 1>Well, damn, some.

1148
00:58:59.119 --> 00:59:01.360
<v Speaker 2>Of it's so wrong, some of it's so fucking right,

1149
00:59:01.800 --> 00:59:03.800
<v Speaker 2>And I think you don't even remember the stuff that's

1150
00:59:03.840 --> 00:59:04.360
<v Speaker 2>fucking right.

1151
00:59:04.440 --> 00:59:07.000
<v Speaker 3>I probably don't. But also when he was like Balin's

1152
00:59:07.000 --> 00:59:08.920
<v Speaker 3>like Jeff and I was like, oh, I was, I

1153
00:59:09.000 --> 00:59:11.679
<v Speaker 3>wasn't paying attention, did you just I know, I think

1154
00:59:11.719 --> 00:59:15.000
<v Speaker 3>it was my acting how it was an emmy it

1155
00:59:15.119 --> 00:59:15.440
<v Speaker 3>was good.

1156
00:59:15.719 --> 00:59:17.320
<v Speaker 2>And then I was like, oh, yeah, it's just.

1157
00:59:17.440 --> 00:59:19.679
<v Speaker 3>Like a thing from Wheel of Time. That's why it

1158
00:59:20.039 --> 00:59:22.400
<v Speaker 3>triggered me, because I literally didn't know what to say.

1159
00:59:22.440 --> 00:59:25.880
<v Speaker 2>I was just like, yeah, yeah, I know he called it.

1160
00:59:26.039 --> 00:59:29.159
<v Speaker 2>And then but but he doesn't quite know what he's called.

1161
00:59:29.519 --> 00:59:31.880
<v Speaker 2>Like he's saying it like it's it's like a Jeff.

1162
00:59:32.800 --> 00:59:35.119
<v Speaker 3>It's literally the kind of thing that happened with Jeff.

1163
00:59:35.159 --> 00:59:37.639
<v Speaker 3>But I was just literally like I he said it,

1164
00:59:37.760 --> 00:59:40.280
<v Speaker 3>and I just stopped breathing, and I was like, it's

1165
00:59:40.320 --> 00:59:42.159
<v Speaker 3>all over my face. It's all over my face. Pretend

1166
00:59:42.199 --> 00:59:45.639
<v Speaker 3>I stuff. I wasn't listening. What Yeah, yeah, I did

1167
00:59:45.679 --> 00:59:46.239
<v Speaker 3>the dumb blonde.

1168
00:59:47.559 --> 00:59:50.360
<v Speaker 1>But you are literally right, it's Minbari, not a Minbari

1169
00:59:50.480 --> 00:59:52.599
<v Speaker 1>ieel of the blood, but not raised by it, like

1170
00:59:52.679 --> 00:59:53.199
<v Speaker 1>it's the same.

1171
00:59:53.679 --> 00:59:57.559
<v Speaker 2>It's the same thing. It's you know, yeah, and I mean,

1172
00:59:57.639 --> 01:00:00.920
<v Speaker 2>which is a Jesus thing God and Cardet raised by

1173
01:00:01.000 --> 01:00:04.360
<v Speaker 2>you like it's a whole bit. So yes, the other

1174
01:00:04.480 --> 01:00:06.800
<v Speaker 2>thing that Ali got right is he's just she's just

1175
01:00:06.920 --> 01:00:10.119
<v Speaker 2>carrying cash around. Yes, that's literally what she's doing. She's

1176
01:00:10.199 --> 01:00:13.800
<v Speaker 2>carrying now, it's probably not all of cost, but she's

1177
01:00:13.880 --> 01:00:17.840
<v Speaker 2>carrying pieces of because she, like the Vorlin, can split

1178
01:00:17.960 --> 01:00:20.400
<v Speaker 2>their consciousness a bit and they will put it in

1179
01:00:20.480 --> 01:00:22.880
<v Speaker 2>because they're not corporeal, right, so they put their consciousness

1180
01:00:23.400 --> 01:00:25.519
<v Speaker 2>in her. And that's going to be a big thing.

1181
01:00:25.719 --> 01:00:29.280
<v Speaker 2>That is at the end, when Kosh dies, she doesn't

1182
01:00:29.320 --> 01:00:33.599
<v Speaker 2>have any of caution her, but Bruce does. Sheridan has

1183
01:00:33.639 --> 01:00:36.079
<v Speaker 2>a piece of caution him that he does he's unaware of.

1184
01:00:36.199 --> 01:00:36.679
<v Speaker 3>He doesn't know.

1185
01:00:37.440 --> 01:00:40.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and then later on it becomes important that because

1186
01:00:40.159 --> 01:00:42.599
<v Speaker 2>after Kush is dead, he still has that piece of caution.

1187
01:00:42.599 --> 01:00:45.960
<v Speaker 3>Him for a bit. Also. It was the first example

1188
01:00:46.039 --> 01:00:52.280
<v Speaker 3>of of of Bruce using of Sheridan using Lyda. Yes,

1189
01:00:52.360 --> 01:00:55.320
<v Speaker 3>I was really uncomfortable with that. I was like, oh,

1190
01:00:56.519 --> 01:01:01.320
<v Speaker 3>it just felt like it was like get in your telebat, bitch.

1191
01:01:01.599 --> 01:01:05.800
<v Speaker 3>I don't know, it's just yes, but he it's.

1192
01:01:05.719 --> 01:01:08.679
<v Speaker 2>Not this one. I mean, obviously it's this one is

1193
01:01:08.880 --> 01:01:10.079
<v Speaker 2>I don't think she's upset about it.

1194
01:01:10.119 --> 01:01:13.559
<v Speaker 3>I know it's fine. It is a through line. It's

1195
01:01:13.639 --> 01:01:16.199
<v Speaker 3>a through line with him that I see. And it

1196
01:01:16.239 --> 01:01:18.159
<v Speaker 3>felt like where it felt like the opening the floodgates

1197
01:01:18.199 --> 01:01:20.360
<v Speaker 3>of it, and and the permissive moment of it of

1198
01:01:20.480 --> 01:01:22.400
<v Speaker 3>being like, oh, I'm allowing it now, So we're just

1199
01:01:22.440 --> 01:01:25.079
<v Speaker 3>going to make this third normal thing. Yeah.

1200
01:01:25.199 --> 01:01:28.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's been like debates in my server about this

1201
01:01:28.280 --> 01:01:31.800
<v Speaker 2>affair bit. But yeah, I just it's I really like Sheridan.

1202
01:01:31.880 --> 01:01:33.960
<v Speaker 2>I actually I very much adore him. I think he's

1203
01:01:34.000 --> 01:01:37.199
<v Speaker 2>fantastic too. This is to me, his character flawed. Is

1204
01:01:37.320 --> 01:01:43.599
<v Speaker 2>not seeing telepaths as fully their tools in his mind.

1205
01:01:44.039 --> 01:01:46.239
<v Speaker 2>I don't, at least the way I perceive him. And

1206
01:01:46.320 --> 01:01:48.599
<v Speaker 2>I just think that it's a thing that you can

1207
01:01:48.639 --> 01:01:50.039
<v Speaker 2>see is evidence where he'll just like.

1208
01:01:50.079 --> 01:01:51.039
<v Speaker 3>Oh, yeah, here you are.

1209
01:01:51.280 --> 01:01:53.400
<v Speaker 2>But like and then what he doesn't want her around?

1210
01:01:53.400 --> 01:01:55.320
<v Speaker 2>He doesn't even think about her. Yeah, Like yeah, it's

1211
01:01:55.480 --> 01:02:00.000
<v Speaker 2>just you know, it's yeah, weird, it is. No, it's

1212
01:02:00.119 --> 01:02:01.960
<v Speaker 2>just it's uncomfortable for me.

1213
01:02:02.159 --> 01:02:04.360
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. The other thing that they didn't bring up, and

1214
01:02:04.440 --> 01:02:06.679
<v Speaker 3>I was like fine with that. It's really funny because

1215
01:02:06.679 --> 01:02:08.360
<v Speaker 3>I'm been hesitant to bring it up. We have not

1216
01:02:08.440 --> 01:02:12.760
<v Speaker 3>seen Marcus since the first episode, no, and you know,

1217
01:02:12.880 --> 01:02:15.159
<v Speaker 3>and he's there at the top of show, and I'm

1218
01:02:15.199 --> 01:02:16.679
<v Speaker 3>just waiting for them to be like, oh is he

1219
01:02:17.039 --> 01:02:18.599
<v Speaker 3>is he going to be? I mean, they keep saying

1220
01:02:18.599 --> 01:02:20.320
<v Speaker 3>about KINNICKI, but like, is he going to be the

1221
01:02:20.400 --> 01:02:23.480
<v Speaker 3>new the new Keffer, which he's not, but like, but

1222
01:02:23.639 --> 01:02:26.199
<v Speaker 3>he's really not. I keep and I don't remember the

1223
01:02:26.360 --> 01:02:28.440
<v Speaker 3>order and the timing of things. So every episode I'm

1224
01:02:28.480 --> 01:02:30.199
<v Speaker 3>like about to say the word Marcus, and I don't

1225
01:02:30.199 --> 01:02:32.079
<v Speaker 3>want to say it, like I'm so familiar. I don't

1226
01:02:32.079 --> 01:02:34.679
<v Speaker 3>want to be like because right now it looks like

1227
01:02:34.760 --> 01:02:38.400
<v Speaker 3>he's gonna pull a keffort. So I haven't been wanting

1228
01:02:38.480 --> 01:02:41.679
<v Speaker 3>to mention him, but uh, I'm really desperate to get

1229
01:02:41.719 --> 01:02:43.679
<v Speaker 3>back to him. I love me some ranger.

1230
01:02:43.960 --> 01:02:49.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Marcus great, I really like he loves Marcus. I

1231
01:02:49.840 --> 01:02:58.840
<v Speaker 2>like Marcus. I think Marcus is neat. He's like, yeah,

1232
01:03:01.519 --> 01:03:06.280
<v Speaker 2>other things spoiler worthy of talking. Oh, just going back

1233
01:03:06.320 --> 01:03:08.079
<v Speaker 2>to Leda, Ali thinks Leda died.

1234
01:03:08.239 --> 01:03:11.519
<v Speaker 3>No, she didn't die. She was almost unconscious.

1235
01:03:12.679 --> 01:03:12.920
<v Speaker 2>It's not.

1236
01:03:13.280 --> 01:03:14.519
<v Speaker 3>They're not that level.

1237
01:03:14.679 --> 01:03:18.000
<v Speaker 2>Although we do get a first one kind of raising

1238
01:03:18.079 --> 01:03:20.079
<v Speaker 2>someone from the dead in Bruce, but sort of but

1239
01:03:20.239 --> 01:03:23.400
<v Speaker 2>not really but kind of sort of. They read whatever

1240
01:03:23.679 --> 01:03:27.079
<v Speaker 2>they like, re did what was in him? Basically, what

1241
01:03:27.199 --> 01:03:30.239
<v Speaker 2>does he say? I blew on the embers of life

1242
01:03:30.320 --> 01:03:31.960
<v Speaker 2>that were still in him minutes.

1243
01:03:32.000 --> 01:03:32.480
<v Speaker 3>Something like that.

1244
01:03:32.760 --> 01:03:35.280
<v Speaker 2>I can't remember the exact words, but anyway, the point

1245
01:03:35.440 --> 01:03:41.519
<v Speaker 2>is Leader was not almost unconscious. But the other spoilery

1246
01:03:41.639 --> 01:03:45.199
<v Speaker 2>thing to talk about is Garibaldi's thoughts about the cheese was.

1247
01:03:45.320 --> 01:03:46.960
<v Speaker 2>And I am gonna just because I know that there

1248
01:03:47.000 --> 01:03:49.159
<v Speaker 2>are people like there are people who watch the reaction

1249
01:03:49.480 --> 01:03:52.159
<v Speaker 2>who don't necessarily listen to the podcast, the people who

1250
01:03:52.559 --> 01:03:54.639
<v Speaker 2>listen to the podcast that don't watch the reaction the

1251
01:03:55.000 --> 01:03:58.199
<v Speaker 2>cheese was. What that's referring to is at one point

1252
01:03:58.320 --> 01:04:01.559
<v Speaker 2>during one of the segments, guest said something about adding

1253
01:04:01.679 --> 01:04:05.000
<v Speaker 2>personality to somebody, and I am very old, and I

1254
01:04:05.159 --> 01:04:07.920
<v Speaker 2>remember a commercial from the eighties about cheese Whiz at

1255
01:04:08.360 --> 01:04:16.559
<v Speaker 2>personality personality. Remember, so I animated it as cheese Whiz

1256
01:04:16.679 --> 01:04:18.639
<v Speaker 2>as like when they mind wipe you and give you

1257
01:04:18.679 --> 01:04:19.559
<v Speaker 2>a new personality.

1258
01:04:19.639 --> 01:04:22.920
<v Speaker 3>I animated it as cheese Whiz going into a brain.

1259
01:04:23.039 --> 01:04:24.679
<v Speaker 2>And so now when we talk about the mind like

1260
01:04:24.800 --> 01:04:28.360
<v Speaker 2>new personality thing, we talk about cheese Whiz, Garibaldi is

1261
01:04:28.400 --> 01:04:34.079
<v Speaker 2>going to become intimately uh involved in the cheese Whiz

1262
01:04:34.159 --> 01:04:37.840
<v Speaker 2>when Bester does a ship to his brain and basically

1263
01:04:38.400 --> 01:04:42.119
<v Speaker 2>changes his personality and makes him betray Sheridan, but that's

1264
01:04:42.159 --> 01:04:43.079
<v Speaker 2>going to happen next season.

1265
01:04:43.480 --> 01:04:47.400
<v Speaker 1>It's just very interesting here in Garibaldi talk about how

1266
01:04:47.480 --> 01:04:48.719
<v Speaker 1>much he thinks.

1267
01:04:48.480 --> 01:04:51.519
<v Speaker 2>It's horrible, hates this, Yeah, and it's great, but he

1268
01:04:51.599 --> 01:04:54.360
<v Speaker 2>doesn't think it's Yeah, he doesn't think it's horrible for

1269
01:04:54.440 --> 01:04:55.679
<v Speaker 2>the reasons of what's going to happen.

1270
01:04:55.800 --> 01:04:57.719
<v Speaker 1>He thinks it's horrible because he just loves them dead.

1271
01:04:58.360 --> 01:05:01.239
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, well, but he does seem so thing he does

1272
01:05:01.960 --> 01:05:04.039
<v Speaker 3>he did. I mean, he did say like, yeah, I

1273
01:05:04.079 --> 01:05:05.599
<v Speaker 3>think the death penalty would have been better and they

1274
01:05:05.639 --> 01:05:08.199
<v Speaker 3>shouldn't just get this whatever second chance kind of thing.

1275
01:05:08.320 --> 01:05:11.199
<v Speaker 3>But he also like there's something I feel like there

1276
01:05:11.280 --> 01:05:13.440
<v Speaker 3>was something that he said when we discussed it earlier,

1277
01:05:13.480 --> 01:05:15.280
<v Speaker 3>when it came up earlier that was just sort of

1278
01:05:15.320 --> 01:05:18.440
<v Speaker 3>like and it's also it's also creepy, like you know,

1279
01:05:18.639 --> 01:05:21.320
<v Speaker 3>to like, I can't.

1280
01:05:21.119 --> 01:05:22.559
<v Speaker 1>Remember exactly that. I think you're right.

1281
01:05:22.920 --> 01:05:25.519
<v Speaker 3>I think you're right, but it is but yes, it'll

1282
01:05:25.559 --> 01:05:30.800
<v Speaker 3>be Uh. It's another example of JMS doing just like

1283
01:05:31.360 --> 01:05:34.679
<v Speaker 3>these little bread crumbs, the little tiny crumbs that he's

1284
01:05:34.760 --> 01:05:37.440
<v Speaker 3>using to just drop and set the path.

1285
01:05:38.679 --> 01:05:39.559
<v Speaker 1>I try not to say.

1286
01:05:42.599 --> 01:05:46.719
<v Speaker 3>I'm like, yeah, he's laying the.

1287
01:05:46.760 --> 01:05:53.679
<v Speaker 2>People he's fully laying by they are, and that like

1288
01:05:53.800 --> 01:05:57.000
<v Speaker 2>this one is so subtle because if if you are

1289
01:05:57.360 --> 01:05:59.360
<v Speaker 2>just watching it the first time, you're like, oh, yeah,

1290
01:05:59.360 --> 01:06:01.079
<v Speaker 2>he's talking about this because that's what's going to be

1291
01:06:01.119 --> 01:06:04.840
<v Speaker 2>involved in this episode. But like on a rewatcher like way,

1292
01:06:05.360 --> 01:06:09.079
<v Speaker 2>like that's huh interesting that Garibaldi, of all people is

1293
01:06:09.119 --> 01:06:11.280
<v Speaker 2>the one who's having the strong feelings about this.

1294
01:06:11.400 --> 01:06:13.559
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. So anyway, those.

1295
01:06:13.400 --> 01:06:17.400
<v Speaker 1>Are all of my notes about this episode.

1296
01:06:17.519 --> 01:06:19.519
<v Speaker 3>Yes, did you have any I didn't take any specific

1297
01:06:19.599 --> 01:06:21.679
<v Speaker 3>notes on this one because so I figured we would

1298
01:06:21.719 --> 01:06:23.119
<v Speaker 3>actually just talk about so much of it. But I

1299
01:06:23.239 --> 01:06:25.639
<v Speaker 3>just I do think and this isn't really spoilery at all,

1300
01:06:25.679 --> 01:06:27.480
<v Speaker 3>but they're just like I just think it's such a

1301
01:06:28.239 --> 01:06:31.840
<v Speaker 3>I just think it's such a lovely episode of symbolism

1302
01:06:31.920 --> 01:06:37.519
<v Speaker 3>and subtext and mirrored storylines like in mirrored mythologies, and

1303
01:06:37.639 --> 01:06:40.960
<v Speaker 3>like it's just a really for the writing side of

1304
01:06:40.960 --> 01:06:44.079
<v Speaker 3>it is just such a it's such a fun thing

1305
01:06:44.199 --> 01:06:47.159
<v Speaker 3>to see all of the like all of the parallels

1306
01:06:47.199 --> 01:06:51.480
<v Speaker 3>that he's putting down and uh yeah and then knowing

1307
01:06:51.519 --> 01:06:54.159
<v Speaker 3>where a lot of them are going. It's you know, oh,

1308
01:06:54.519 --> 01:06:56.360
<v Speaker 3>just it's pretty masterful. It's really fun.

1309
01:06:57.119 --> 01:07:00.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, and this one it feels to me like

1310
01:07:00.440 --> 01:07:04.519
<v Speaker 2>the first Bomb episode in that I don't think this

1311
01:07:04.639 --> 01:07:07.239
<v Speaker 2>is necessary for the story, and yet I love it,

1312
01:07:07.679 --> 01:07:09.639
<v Speaker 2>Like this is not this is you know, you could

1313
01:07:09.639 --> 01:07:11.480
<v Speaker 2>pull this one out and the story could still continue.

1314
01:07:11.519 --> 01:07:13.360
<v Speaker 2>This is not a huge part of the The only

1315
01:07:13.440 --> 01:07:14.920
<v Speaker 2>thing in this that's a huge part of the over

1316
01:07:15.039 --> 01:07:17.719
<v Speaker 2>Archie's leader. Yeah, yeah, but you could literally put that

1317
01:07:17.760 --> 01:07:20.079
<v Speaker 2>in the beginning, in the end of any episode exactly.

1318
01:07:20.199 --> 01:07:23.119
<v Speaker 3>It's not. Yeah, like the meat of this.

1319
01:07:23.199 --> 01:07:26.320
<v Speaker 2>Episode is not necessary, and I love the meat.

1320
01:07:26.280 --> 01:07:26.920
<v Speaker 4>Of this episode.

1321
01:07:26.960 --> 01:07:29.679
<v Speaker 3>It's so good. It's so good, And like I said,

1322
01:07:29.679 --> 01:07:32.440
<v Speaker 3>I could watch I could watch Brother Theo all day

1323
01:07:32.559 --> 01:07:35.360
<v Speaker 3>every day. I'm just enamored with him. I love him.

1324
01:07:35.400 --> 01:07:37.719
<v Speaker 3>I love to hear him talk. He's so soothing. It's

1325
01:07:37.760 --> 01:07:39.679
<v Speaker 3>such a nice piece of casting. They're like, we're going

1326
01:07:39.719 --> 01:07:41.119
<v Speaker 3>to give him a better role, and like, you gave

1327
01:07:41.199 --> 01:07:43.159
<v Speaker 3>him the role. This was the role he was supposed

1328
01:07:43.159 --> 01:07:45.280
<v Speaker 3>to And it's not that different from Drawl in the

1329
01:07:45.360 --> 01:07:48.079
<v Speaker 3>sense that Drawl was her St Lens mentor and came

1330
01:07:48.119 --> 01:07:51.039
<v Speaker 3>from that space and that like same philosophy place. But

1331
01:07:51.719 --> 01:07:55.719
<v Speaker 3>it's so it's just so lovely. I'm like, you're the

1332
01:07:55.840 --> 01:07:58.320
<v Speaker 3>kind of person who as a as a clergy leader,

1333
01:07:58.360 --> 01:08:00.599
<v Speaker 3>as the head of a as the head of a

1334
01:08:00.679 --> 01:08:05.800
<v Speaker 3>faith organization, keeps people there. Yeah, you know, it's very

1335
01:08:05.960 --> 01:08:12.199
<v Speaker 3>like no judgment and comforting and soothing and yeah, very much.

1336
01:08:12.280 --> 01:08:14.320
<v Speaker 1>So, Yeah, it's hilariously.

1337
01:08:14.320 --> 01:08:16.159
<v Speaker 2>I think drawl is a big part of the next

1338
01:08:16.239 --> 01:08:20.119
<v Speaker 2>episode and the next episode actually was supposed to be

1339
01:08:20.279 --> 01:08:22.800
<v Speaker 2>episode four, but the next episode has a lot of

1340
01:08:22.840 --> 01:08:23.840
<v Speaker 2>special effects.

1341
01:08:23.520 --> 01:08:24.920
<v Speaker 3>So they got it.

1342
01:08:25.239 --> 01:08:26.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah I got bumped.

1343
01:08:26.439 --> 01:08:29.880
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay, love that and

1344
01:08:30.000 --> 01:08:32.960
<v Speaker 3>that also makes sense what we'll see when we get there.

1345
01:08:32.960 --> 01:08:34.760
<v Speaker 3>We'll talk about them, okay.

1346
01:08:35.520 --> 01:08:38.920
<v Speaker 2>Yes, which is like we're running these back to back,

1347
01:08:39.039 --> 01:08:40.520
<v Speaker 2>so yeah, a couple of minutes.

1348
01:08:42.239 --> 01:08:44.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, this is one of my favorites.

1349
01:08:44.880 --> 01:08:46.960
<v Speaker 2>Like this is like there are certain episodes when I

1350
01:08:47.000 --> 01:08:50.159
<v Speaker 2>think about Babylon five that come to mind, and this

1351
01:08:50.399 --> 01:08:53.279
<v Speaker 2>is one of them, which I always find weird because,

1352
01:08:53.279 --> 01:08:55.560
<v Speaker 2>like I said, it doesn't like, you know, there are

1353
01:08:55.560 --> 01:08:57.159
<v Speaker 2>episodes that have to do with the plot and like,

1354
01:08:57.159 --> 01:08:58.840
<v Speaker 2>oh yeah, that's a plot episode, but this is one

1355
01:08:58.880 --> 01:09:01.640
<v Speaker 2>of those ones. It's just like it's just an examination

1356
01:09:02.720 --> 01:09:04.439
<v Speaker 2>to me, and like I said, it does to me

1357
01:09:04.640 --> 01:09:07.239
<v Speaker 2>very much feel like and he doesn't say this really

1358
01:09:07.399 --> 01:09:10.119
<v Speaker 2>in the in a bit in that passage that I read,

1359
01:09:10.279 --> 01:09:12.640
<v Speaker 2>but it feels like very much looking back on a

1360
01:09:12.680 --> 01:09:15.239
<v Speaker 2>time in his life where he had faith and belief

1361
01:09:15.319 --> 01:09:17.479
<v Speaker 2>and being like, this was a good thing about that

1362
01:09:17.680 --> 01:09:20.479
<v Speaker 2>belief that I like and miss and I'm just gonna

1363
01:09:20.920 --> 01:09:22.560
<v Speaker 2>spend some time examining.

1364
01:09:22.680 --> 01:09:25.800
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, so yeah, those are my thoughts. I love it,

1365
01:09:26.159 --> 01:09:27.159
<v Speaker 3>I love it, I love it.

1366
01:09:28.000 --> 01:09:31.279
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, I guess that's that's it for this episode.

1367
01:09:31.279 --> 01:09:32.600
<v Speaker 2>And I was gonna say that's it for today. But

1368
01:09:32.640 --> 01:09:35.319
<v Speaker 2>it's not weird good but for you it is for us,

1369
01:09:35.439 --> 01:09:40.119
<v Speaker 2>for you not it is not. But yeah, if you

1370
01:09:40.199 --> 01:09:41.960
<v Speaker 2>like this, son, you might want to check out Our Reaction,

1371
01:09:42.079 --> 01:09:45.600
<v Speaker 2>which is up on YouTube, and you can check out

1372
01:09:45.600 --> 01:09:49.840
<v Speaker 2>our Patreon for unedited versions of the Reaction early access

1373
01:09:50.479 --> 01:09:53.520
<v Speaker 2>actually versions of the audio version of this podcast. Sometimes

1374
01:09:53.760 --> 01:09:57.399
<v Speaker 2>random other ship that we do for I don't know,

1375
01:09:57.800 --> 01:10:01.079
<v Speaker 2>you get that as well. And I also get a

1376
01:10:01.159 --> 01:10:04.880
<v Speaker 2>super secret channel in my discord where super secret shit happens.

1377
01:10:05.479 --> 01:10:07.680
<v Speaker 2>It's super secret and so I'm not you're telling you

1378
01:10:07.720 --> 01:10:10.000
<v Speaker 2>about it and you can do all of that never

1379
01:10:10.039 --> 01:10:13.479
<v Speaker 2>and never, And I also like a subscribed and I

1380
01:10:13.640 --> 01:10:16.399
<v Speaker 2>still keep forgetting to ask Gus if we get any

1381
01:10:16.520 --> 01:10:18.600
<v Speaker 2>ratings or reviews because I don't know how to check that.

1382
01:10:19.000 --> 01:10:22.640
<v Speaker 3>So do that and maybe we'll hype hype it up.

1383
01:10:22.920 --> 01:10:26.039
<v Speaker 2>Yes, hip and like liking the video. If you're watching

1384
01:10:26.079 --> 01:10:28.199
<v Speaker 2>this on YouTube, I know that I know what that does.

1385
01:10:28.239 --> 01:10:33.279
<v Speaker 2>That actually helps hype. Maybe no clue, so but do

1386
01:10:33.399 --> 01:10:35.520
<v Speaker 2>all of that. That was a big long outro, So

1387
01:10:35.680 --> 01:10:36.039
<v Speaker 2>do it all.

1388
01:10:36.279 --> 01:10:37.399
<v Speaker 3>I'll see you next time.

1389
01:10:38.199 --> 01:10:38.640
<v Speaker 1>Level on