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Speaker 1: Welcome to Popcorn Psychology, the podcast where we watch blockbuster

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movies and psychoanalyze them. My name is Brittany Brownfield and

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I'm a child therapist and I'm joined by.

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Speaker 2: Ben Stover, individual therapist, Hannah Espinoza, marriage and family therapists.

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Speaker 1: We're all licensed clinical professional counselors also known as therapists,

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who practice out of Chicago. Even though we are licensed

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mental health professionals, this podcast is purely for entertainment purposes

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and to fulfill our love of dissecting pop culture and

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all forms.

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Speaker 3: Please remember that, even though we are all licensed therapists,

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we aren't your therapist.

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Speaker 2: If you are struggling with mental health symptoms, please find

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a local mental health provider.

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Speaker 3: Hello everybody, and welcome to our last episode of season seven.

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We are doing a Christmas Story, the nineteen eighty three

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classic that any millennial has watched four hundred thousand times

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as it ran on TBS every single year, on every

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single hour for every single day of December four years.

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So we're going to talk about it. And in this

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episode we're going to talk about the kid dynamics we

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see parenting and especially the differences between parenting in the

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nineteen forties and now the mom and dad relationship, and

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then we will cover treatment and final thoughts. The movie

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is about an older Ralphie reminiscing about the best Christmas

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present he ever got, which is the Red Writer be Begun.

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Speaker 1: You don't know the full?

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Speaker 4: Do you know the full?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 4: I do not know the No.

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Speaker 5: I don't. I look it up.

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Speaker 4: If you nah, it's fine. I didn't know.

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Speaker 1: If you could throw it off top of your head,

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I cannot.

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Speaker 3: I don't love this movie enough to be able to

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memorize that whole thing about the two hundred rounds.

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Speaker 1: And Zally gives.

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Speaker 3: The whole little spiel. But I guarantee you for something

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that I love, I could.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the movie is basically just like a bunch

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of like kind of almost little vignettes of this time

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in Americana for this kid and his family.

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Speaker 4: So what do we see with the kid dynamics?

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Speaker 1: Well, I think what I I will start off the

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top by what I do like about this movie and

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also have a lot for rough final thoughts. But I

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do like how accurately this movie portrays things from the

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kid perspective and what's important to a kid. It is

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a good job of showing how fantastical a kid's world

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is too like their point of view, and how daydreamy

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and kind of ridiculous it is. I think it is

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a good job of showing, like what's important to a

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kid that isn't important to us once we get older

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and our world gets bigger and we have more worries

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and anxieties of how many like social rules there are

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with kids specifically, and how that shows up in how

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they treat each other. I mean, I'm not a I

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was in boy. I know, Ben you were saying beforehand,

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this was very accurate to being a young boy.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely yeah, never seen anything more accurate.

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Speaker 1: So what did you? I guess what do you pick

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up on it? Specifically for you? That feels so accurate?

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Speaker 3: About the dynamics, Everything about the dynamics is accurate to

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what it was like to be a little boy. I

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think at certain points in times and maybe still, but

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I have girls now, so unfortunately don't know what it's

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like to parent boys.

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Speaker 4: Though.

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Speaker 3: This movie is yet again another reminder that my father

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would always say that having a house full of three

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boys is a never ending factory of bad ideas, which

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this movie yet again displays all the bad ideas that

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they have and all the misadventure that comes from it,

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and should we go down the alley.

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Speaker 4: Or should we take the way that's safe. Oh look, the.

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Speaker 3: Bullies were always in the alley are there again? Surprise surprise.

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Now we have to run and dodge this empty car

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and go through this car house can do whatever weird

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stuff we do, and maybe we have to fight them,

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maybe we get in a snowball fight. Maybe we stick

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our tongue to the frozen poll. But my dad is

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clearly smarter than your dad. So whatever your dad says,

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fuck your.

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Speaker 4: Dad, Yes, absolutely, and that won't happen.

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Speaker 3: That's ridiculous, your tongue can't stick to it. All of

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the dynamics between the kids, of the way they dare

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each other to do things, and the like the gravitas

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that it takes to triple dog dare someone and how

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up against a wall your reputation is for the rest

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of your life if you back down, And also the

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way the kids pull each other, like down the stairs

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when they're running up and Ralphie and his brother.

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Speaker 1: I feel like that's just siblings because me and my

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siblings definitely did that to each other.

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Speaker 3: And you know, all I can speak to is being

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a little boy with boy siblings.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I feel like the only reason why you

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don't experience that is because you have such a big

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age difference between your two kids. But I feel like

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if your kids were close in age, they'd also be

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doing that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and maybe they will when they get a little

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bit older, and Mean's still the baby.

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Speaker 1: So that's what I mean. I feel like there's two

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for anyone who doesn't know, there's like a five four

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and a half five and a half five and a

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half your age difference between your kids. So I feel

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like a lot of this stuff might not happen because

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of that. But me and my siblings we were like

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on top of each other age wise, and so we

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were like a lot of that stuff that you see

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in the movie definitely happen with us.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, what happened with me and my middle brother guaranteed

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ninety percent of this stuff of fighting over a bathroom,

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like he's really gotta go.

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Speaker 1: I'm busy, Yes, want in privacy, But I would say,

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what I think is so interesting, Like one of the

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things that pops out for me is the whole like

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Dare scene and doing something that is potentially like high

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risk if you are believing what could happen, which does happen,

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which is getting your tongue stuck yep, maybe ripped off

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in their world. I come from obviously a child therapy background,

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obviously Fred Rogers background. He is my you know, lord

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and savior. And it makes me think of when he

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talks about how kids play is so serious and how

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you have to take kids play serious. And I think

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this is such a good example of how us as

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adults would look at something like who gives a shit

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if you get triple dog dared? It's all made up, right, right,

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And we forget that so much of the adult stuff

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that we are invested in socially is also made up.

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We've just made it make more sense to us as

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adults than kids do. But it's the same idea where

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there is like your reputations on the line, you have

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to prove something to the other people, all these kind

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of things that's so important, And a lot of ways

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what these kids are doing is they're practicing the adult

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version of this within little kid context, which is are

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you a man of your word? Prove it?

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Speaker 4: You know?

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Speaker 1: All this stuff they're trying to figure out in the

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world they're doing as kids, and that is serious stuff,

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even though us as adults like to poo poo it,

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make fun of it, diminish it. Yeah, because all this

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this is their whole social world is each other and

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how they treat each other, and like the bully for example,

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that is a big deal. That is like their villain

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that they have to survive on a daily basis. That

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also probably brings a little excitement to their lives, the

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same way that us as adults will still kind of

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poke at relationships or people and end up in situations

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with people that we don't necessarily like, but we still

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do it anyway.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 1: It's all stuff that like we just.

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Speaker 4: I like The Wizard of Us. I like the tin Man.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't understand what.

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Speaker 5: But you're a little boy, the little boy in line.

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Speaker 3: What the little boy with the goggles who just like

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stares at him.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I think I was mildly zoning out on that part.

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I think something people should know off the rip is

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I don't like this movie. It's like I might not

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have retained all the stuff in it that I have,

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so I won't be good at the bits. Apologies.

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Speaker 4: It's on me.

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Speaker 3: So obviously kids learn a lot through play. Kid's primary

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ability to learn is through play, and they are auditioning

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adult roles, yes, And they are learning how to apply

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adult rules through play. And we see that in this

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movie all over the place, and I think that's a

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really important part of it. And the narrator adding the

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extra gravitas with the way he says.

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Speaker 4: Saying the triple dog dear. Yeah, I think.

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Speaker 3: All of that does capture a really important component of

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the way kids think about those things because it is

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so serious to them and they can't see beyond the

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next hour.

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Speaker 1: Right, especially at this time in the world in which

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they don't have internet, they don't even have TV yet,

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that their world is so small and it's just the

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people around them and their school and their class and

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their family, and so how you are perceived socially is

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really important. And they are making the stakes with these things,

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and so they are deciding collectively that the stakes are

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high in these dog dare stuff, and so it is high,

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and it is important because you don't want to be ostracized,

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like they are playing out all these sort of almost

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like tribal behaviors of like who's like you're saying, like,

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whose dad is the one to be respected, right, which

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then allows that's the kid that's attached to that dad

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to then be respected. And what I do like about

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the narrator and because he's the guy who wrote the stories, right,

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mm hmm, yeah, it's about his childhood, is he does

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do a great job which not a lot of adults

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are good at of really remembering like you were saying,

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like the intensity of this time in your life and

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the ceseriousness of these things, and not really try eating

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it as silly, like even the daydreaming that he does,

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where he's daydream about saving his family from the robbers

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and then he's daydreaming about his essay in school. This, like,

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all that stuff seems really funny and silly as an

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adult's looking at it, But as a kid, like all

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this stuff is you are figuring out the world around

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you and what matters.

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Speaker 3: And I think that stuff holds up to time. I

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think kids still play when they have the chance to play,

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largely the same way that they did in this movie

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set in the forties. I think that's part of why

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it endures, even if I don't know how much longer

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it will, because as we start to lose touch with well,

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this was what life was like when your parents grew

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up or your grandparents grew up. I don't know how

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much longer kids will care, although my daughter did watch

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it and like it.

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Speaker 2: I do also feel like why I think any kid

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would still like this movie is because they can they

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relate to some of the silly us that we see

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and some of the silliness that these kids are experiencing.

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Speaker 1: I think what is different nowadays, though, is not a

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lot of kids are out in the streets walk them

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to school, being just together kind of I guess free

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range would be what they would call it nowadays. No,

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and getting the opportunities to do a lot of these

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risk taking things and like social experiment stuff that is

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really important, and I do think we are kind of

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figuring out what to do with that now because we

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sort of overcorrected culturally.

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Speaker 3: Well yeah, we overcorrected because our parents brought us up

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on a whole bunch of movies and shows about all

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the shit that can happen when you don't listen or back.

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Speaker 1: You know where your kids are right now?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 1: They just have to put ads on TV to make

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sure that you knew where your kids were at ten pm.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, because they tell you come back when the street

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lights are on.

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Speaker 1: I would say what I'm more see now, unfortunately, is

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parents getting involved a lot more when kids are having skirmishes.

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I mean, I would definitely still understand like a parent

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getting involved when Ralphie goes off and beats the shit

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of that kid the bully, right farcas. Yeah, but I

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do feel like what I see more nowadays, unfortunately, is

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parents getting involved as soon as, like someone gets upset

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or as soon as there is a negative interaction between kids,

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instead of letting kids like work it out between them

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and letting kids kind of take not dangerous risks, you know,

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like appropriately dangerous risks, And so there are a lot

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of life skills that can be learned through this. I

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guess free range play that I don't know if kids

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are getting as much as they should because of, like

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not to sound like a boomer, video games and online

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stuff that just lets them stay at home really like

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wiling out with other kids on the street and in

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the playgrounds and stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think kids have a lot less time where

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they're just together and don't have to be doing anything.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's such a good point, because what we do

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see a lot with these kids is they just have

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a lot of time, like free time where they're in

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and out, they're walking back and forth from school, they're

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at recess just dicking around, and yeah, kids are so

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scheduled nowadays.

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Speaker 5: So that there's not a lot of I would even say, yeah.

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Speaker 1: There's not a lot of time for kids to just

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like dick around with their friends after school, which is

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important to their development, and I would argue maybe more

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important than the twenty hundred extracurriculars you've signed them up for. Yeah, exactly,

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because you're robbing them of a chance to develop social

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skills that will help them throughout their entire life, and

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ones that are that are incorporate like improving, not like

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doing this structured activity with these other kids. So there's

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always like an adult there and a script in a

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very specific way, whereas back when we were kids, it

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would be like, hey, does someone want to play kickball?

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And then the kids would organize kickball and do it

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in the street or at the school, and it was

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much more like kids having to figure out all these

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like leadership as qualities and working together qualities and organizational

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qualities that they don't develop unless an adult in one

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of these extracurricular activities is like making sure they develop

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it through how they engage the kids.

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Speaker 4: I agree.

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Speaker 3: I think when I see parents that have kids that

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have gotten into hockey or soccer or volleyball in particular,

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that these kids get so pulled into this universe of

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being a professional athlete at ten, and parents are spending

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their entire life at these practices and games at four am.

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It is absurd, and the kids really don't always have

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the chance. And I've had these kids come in too.

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They don't always have that chance to sit and just play.

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Whether it's the just.

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Speaker 2: Be bored, which I know Brittany has brought up before

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on the podcast, but of just the just being bored

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and having to come up with something and having to

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learn how to past time and be a little bit uncomfortable.

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Speaker 4: Yes, my daughter hates hates that.

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Speaker 3: In the car, she calls YouTube Ducky songs and in

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the car she's like, can I watch Ducky songs? Because

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when the pandemic was going on, she started that with

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there was nothing to do.

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Speaker 4: So sometimes you're like, sure.

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Speaker 1: You're like indulging her a bit, which I would Understan

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at that time.

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Speaker 3: Right, But she cannot tolerate being in the car sometimes,

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like can I watch Ducky songs like no, you cannot.

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You need to learn to be bored and how to

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amuse yourself, and she hates it. So, just like you said,

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right there, she's like, I'm bored. And we have probably

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like the parents in this movie did.

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Speaker 4: At some point in time.

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Speaker 3: We read her a book called Dear Girl, and one

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of the things in it says, dear girl, do you

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know what's really boring? When people tell you how bored

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they are?

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Speaker 1: Read her down.

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Speaker 4: She hates stacks.

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Speaker 1: Well, you can throw at her what I always say,

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which is, Hannah, what do I say about being bored?

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Speaker 5: If you're bored, you're boring, You're.

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Speaker 1: Boring, because what it is is that also, other than

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all these other skills we've talked about, kids develop imagination,

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problem solving, like you were saying, Hannah, distress, tolerance, frustration, tolerance,

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not beating, instant gratification, impulse control, all these things that

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unstructured free time allows kids to develop. Now, is there

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a line to this?

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Speaker 4: Yes?

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Speaker 1: Is that line a kid like farcas?

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Speaker 4: Yes?

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Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, Because there are bullies and I get why,

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especially I'm sure parents who experience bullies. Maybe that's part of,

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you know, why we've kind of locked down on kids

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more is not wanting our kids to be bullied, which

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I understand, and I don't know if this has helped

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the bullying problem. I feel like bullying, unfortunately, just adapts

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to the culture.

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Speaker 3: It does, and it becomes pretty prevalent through social media

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and social apps with kids nowadays, so they just find

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other ways to do it. And then one kid bullies

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another kid on Insta and shares it to all everyone.

341
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It's the same effect. Yeah, and there's things that tend

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to happen over time with what's the next focus? Because

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social emotional learning that's pretty big now is really trying

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to combat the bullying. But parents are also spending four

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times more time with their kids than our parents spent

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with us, and the bullying I think is part of it.

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The other thing is they showed us a bunch of

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movies and things. Like I said before, but like Bridge

349
00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:11,799
to Terabithia, My Girl, Oh yeah.

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Speaker 1: Oh my Girl. That movie upset the hell out of

351
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me when I was a kid, Yeah, upset the hell

352
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out of me. I remember when they do the Blood

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Oath in that movie. My mom looked at me and

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she went, don't.

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Speaker 4: You ever do that anybody? Brothers.

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Speaker 1: That's how you get right, because well you hit on

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what you just said there, which is like, what did

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you say emotional social emotional learning, social emotional learning. Because

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here's the thing. The reason why bullies persist isn't because

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kids were just running around and then a farcas just

361
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was like, had no one there to like rain him in.

362
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A kid like farcas exists because farcus is probably either

363
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has like raging ADHD and or a parent or parent

364
00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:03,119
in the home who treat them like shit. You know,

365
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as long as there are kids that are being traumatized unfortunately,

366
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there's going to be bullies there will, yep. And as

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long as there are kids that aren't being taken care

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of by their family, either because they're not getting their

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needs met if they have something on ADHD, or they're

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being neglected in some way or abused in some way,

371
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there's going to be bullies. So if we really want

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to tackle bullies, we have to tackle the way that

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kids are treated in their homes. And that's with mental

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health stuff too. So all that shit is generational trauma usually.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, which sounds like it's kind of leading us into parenting.

376
00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:38,440
So do we have anything else we want to say

377
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more on kid dynamics or should we take a break here?

378
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Speaker 4: Let's take a break.

379
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Speaker 3: So coming out of this break, let's talk about the

380
00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:49,839
parenting styles we see in this film. I think we've

381
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started to kind of hint on it in our last

382
00:19:51,519 --> 00:19:56,160
section there, but clearly parenting in the forties and parenting

383
00:19:56,839 --> 00:20:01,319
in the mid twenty twenties are very different things. And

384
00:20:01,519 --> 00:20:04,440
even the way we were parented in the eighties and

385
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nineties is a very different thing than what's happening now.

386
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Speaker 1: Yes, I mean this is just like the old school

387
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:16,680
punitive parenting. You get in trouble, you get punished in

388
00:20:16,759 --> 00:20:21,559
some way, and then we keep it moving and there's

389
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no real discussions about anything. And also, one thing I

390
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:28,799
want to point out is a lot of times like hard,

391
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:33,920
like these more specifically punitive methods like putting a bar

392
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:37,000
soap in your mouth, it doesn't really have like a

393
00:20:37,079 --> 00:20:39,400
lasting impact. What kids learn how to do is they

394
00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:43,079
just learn to deal with your punishment. Because he mentions

395
00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:45,519
when he has the bars ope in his mouth, all

396
00:20:45,559 --> 00:20:48,920
he's become like a bar of soap connoisseur. He knows

397
00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:53,039
exactly what every bar type tastes like, what every brand

398
00:20:53,079 --> 00:20:55,839
tastes like, which once tastes better or worse, which means

399
00:20:55,839 --> 00:20:59,640
that he's had to do this many times. You know,

400
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,200
he's probably five times he's had a bar soap in

401
00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:05,039
his mouth, oh at least so and he's only nine.

402
00:21:05,759 --> 00:21:07,079
So what does that tell you?

403
00:21:07,599 --> 00:21:11,960
Speaker 3: That his dad swears up a storm and so do

404
00:21:12,079 --> 00:21:15,799
the other kids, and all he's doing is emulating the

405
00:21:15,839 --> 00:21:18,759
adults and other people in his life, just like every

406
00:21:18,799 --> 00:21:22,680
other kid. And I love how that keeps getting brought

407
00:21:22,759 --> 00:21:26,079
up throughout the film by the adult version of the

408
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:32,920
narrator going throwing gentle shade it dad for whatever streams

409
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:36,559
of obscenities would come out of his mouth, And then

410
00:21:36,599 --> 00:21:40,519
how everyone including his mom just ignored that and punished Ralphie.

411
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Speaker 1: Yeah, well because yeah, because well one when there's this

412
00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:46,400
pinitive thing, like the bar of soap thing, and like

413
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getting lectured, which was another part of the movie I

414
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:50,920
can't quite remember. I think the teacher was lecturing them,

415
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,079
is that he also mentions there that you just kind

416
00:21:53,079 --> 00:21:54,920
of have to grin and bear it, and that's what

417
00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,119
kids learn how to do once they get smart enough

418
00:21:57,119 --> 00:22:01,720
to think more sophisticated than like a kindergartener is I

419
00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:04,359
just have to deal with this short moment of discomfort

420
00:22:05,079 --> 00:22:07,279
and then I'll just go about my day. So kids

421
00:22:07,319 --> 00:22:10,839
don't really learn anything like when they get whooped or

422
00:22:10,839 --> 00:22:14,920
smacked on the bottom or anything like that. Once they

423
00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:18,920
get older, then like I said, three five years old

424
00:22:19,599 --> 00:22:23,480
and they have long term memory, they learn that Okay,

425
00:22:23,519 --> 00:22:26,039
I just have to deal with this moment and then

426
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I'll move on, and maybe it will be bad enough

427
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:31,559
that they will try not to do it again in

428
00:22:31,559 --> 00:22:33,839
the future. But a lot of times kids will just

429
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:38,759
learn how to deal with their parents, like glimpses of

430
00:22:38,799 --> 00:22:39,680
punishments at them.

431
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Speaker 4: Well, yeah, and Ralfie is nine. Nine to ten is when.

432
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:46,319
Speaker 3: The prefronts of cortex really starts turning on.

433
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Speaker 4: So kids are.

434
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:49,839
Speaker 1: Capable like abstract thinking and stuff.

435
00:22:49,599 --> 00:22:56,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, and having logical advanced planning you really turn on,

436
00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:01,920
they're going to have the you know, adult brainstar to develop.

437
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:05,720
At that point, it's not developed, but it's starting much

438
00:23:05,759 --> 00:23:10,000
more than a younger kid. And he was smart enough

439
00:23:10,039 --> 00:23:13,000
to know that the only thing that's going to happen

440
00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:17,519
if I answer dad. When Mom asks where did you

441
00:23:17,599 --> 00:23:23,960
hear this word? When he drops the big kahuna, yes,

442
00:23:24,559 --> 00:23:27,599
oh fudge, yes, that he blames his friend. Then hear

443
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:31,000
his friend getting his ass whooped on the line. But

444
00:23:31,079 --> 00:23:34,119
he knew that was better than saying dad, because he

445
00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:36,880
would start a war in the house even though everybody

446
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:37,599
knew it was dad.

447
00:23:38,039 --> 00:23:41,000
Speaker 1: Which is also the part of it that's so irritating,

448
00:23:41,319 --> 00:23:47,720
almost like enraging about this style of parenting is this

449
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:52,839
unwillingness sometimes of parents or whoever the charagivers are to

450
00:23:53,039 --> 00:23:57,960
recognize how they are doing the behaviors that then they're

451
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:02,839
punishing their kids for doing. It's like this blissful ignorance

452
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:06,799
that mom wants to live in that like, of course,

453
00:24:06,799 --> 00:24:08,400
where the fuck do you think you learned that word from?

454
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:09,799
Like are you stupid?

455
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:14,680
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean me and my friends swore as much

456
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,000
as the boys, and this swear. When I was at age,

457
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:19,240
I said fucking all kinds of stuff when I was

458
00:24:19,279 --> 00:24:19,920
in second grade.

459
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Speaker 5: Never got caught though.

460
00:24:23,839 --> 00:24:25,680
Speaker 2: To the surprise of no one, but also because I

461
00:24:25,759 --> 00:24:29,160
had a parent who used that language on a regular basis,

462
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:33,079
So that was a part of why it was naturalized.

463
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,880
Naturalized the experience of using that language, and so it's

464
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:39,519
so shitty when the mom calls the other mom and

465
00:24:39,559 --> 00:24:41,519
gets that other kid in trouble, like she doesn't know

466
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,640
what she's putting that kid through just because she's.

467
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,160
Speaker 1: Pissed at her kid said it's weear word. And also,

468
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,519
just like I said, the wilful ignorance of where did

469
00:24:50,559 --> 00:24:54,200
you learn that word? Like that question pisses me off

470
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,480
about this mom. I'm on this mom's side a lot

471
00:24:56,519 --> 00:24:59,200
in this movie because I feel bad for her because

472
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,480
her life sucks, which I'll talk about later, But I

473
00:25:02,519 --> 00:25:05,599
would say with this it is this farce that everyone

474
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,599
is playing of like we're just ignoring the shit that

475
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,200
dad does on a regular basis, like living in this

476
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:14,359
fantasy that not only is your kid not really being

477
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,720
exposed to this shit that your spouse does, but also

478
00:25:17,839 --> 00:25:21,000
that they should know better. Like we're hitting on a

479
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:25,279
real pet peeve with me, which is when adults asks

480
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:29,640
the kids expect the kids to behave better than the

481
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:31,960
adults around them, which I would also say with that

482
00:25:32,079 --> 00:25:34,519
kid he snitches on because his mom kind of makes

483
00:25:34,559 --> 00:25:37,680
him snitch, and then that kids get the shit kicked

484
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:41,279
out of him, I'm sure that kid also beats people

485
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,640
up or whatever, and their mom's like probably beating him

486
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:46,440
to be like stop hitting kids, and it's like, what

487
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,400
the fuck are you doing. It's just such a shitty

488
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:51,839
thing that parents will do or adults will do to kids,

489
00:25:52,319 --> 00:25:56,160
which is, don't do the thing I'm literally doing. How

490
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:58,559
dare you? And you should know better than what I'm

491
00:25:58,599 --> 00:26:00,720
literally doing, even though I'm the persons was to be

492
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:02,319
showing you how to be in the world.

493
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 2: And we wonder where kids are confused about how they're

494
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:06,160
supposed to behave Yes, yep.

495
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,559
Speaker 3: It's not hard to see. And they would tell you

496
00:26:09,599 --> 00:26:13,240
that when you take any child psychology class or any

497
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:16,279
family therapy classes, that if you want to see the

498
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:20,319
root cause of a child's behavior, look at what's going

499
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:21,599
on with the parents.

500
00:26:22,279 --> 00:26:24,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's something I would when I used to

501
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:28,480
do family therapy with kids that had sniffing at behavioral issues,

502
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:31,079
I would ask like, well, how do you guys talk

503
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,519
at home? The amount of times that a parent would

504
00:26:34,519 --> 00:26:36,279
start telling me the story is if they're kid's the

505
00:26:36,319 --> 00:26:39,680
biggest asshole that has ever been created, And the kids

506
00:26:39,759 --> 00:26:42,599
were usually like seven, eight, nine, and then they would

507
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,519
tell on themselves in the story like, well, I was

508
00:26:45,599 --> 00:26:47,359
yelling at them to stop doing that. Da da da

509
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:49,920
da da, And then I have to be the bad

510
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:54,160
guy that jumps in and is like, rewind, what did

511
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,640
you just say? And so if like I almost said

512
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:02,039
Kevin's mom because we just said home alone, Ralphie's mom

513
00:27:02,079 --> 00:27:05,920
was in my office complaining to me about Ralphie swearing

514
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,759
and stuff, I would say, well, what do you and

515
00:27:08,759 --> 00:27:11,400
your husband say around him? I would be interested if

516
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:12,880
the mom would tell the truth. I feel like she

517
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:14,720
want it. I'm not in the way that I think

518
00:27:14,759 --> 00:27:18,799
she'd be like intentionally manipulatively lying to me, but I

519
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:21,640
think that she wants to pretend that that doesn't happen

520
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:22,319
at our house.

521
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:22,759
Speaker 4: Yeah.

522
00:27:22,799 --> 00:27:24,880
Speaker 3: I think she does want to pretend that because that

523
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:28,599
would not be socially acceptable and so for everyone, and

524
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,799
Ralphie knows it too. So despite everyone knows who his

525
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,039
dad is and how his dad is and can probably

526
00:27:35,079 --> 00:27:38,160
hear him, they all ignore that and act like the

527
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:42,440
kids universe is separate than the adults universe, and children's

528
00:27:42,559 --> 00:27:47,519
rules are separate from adults rules, which is consistent with

529
00:27:47,559 --> 00:27:50,279
that old school parenting that would have come down on

530
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:56,559
us and did not as hard as maybe in the forties,

531
00:27:56,599 --> 00:27:59,880
but certainly the remnants of that were still there. And

532
00:28:00,079 --> 00:28:03,880
how we were parented and speak when spoken to are

533
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,759
things all of us probably heard at least once.

534
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 1: Well, I would say where I can give my parents

535
00:28:11,039 --> 00:28:15,440
credit is that I think they were definitely in that

536
00:28:15,519 --> 00:28:20,640
transitionary period of parenting where my parents did try to

537
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:22,559
do more like modeling. Like when my mom would swear

538
00:28:22,599 --> 00:28:24,720
in front of us on accident, she would like apologize

539
00:28:24,759 --> 00:28:27,680
and she would kind of like name what was happening.

540
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,319
And my parents actually did a good job and like

541
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:32,079
not yelling at us and not speaking us. But I

542
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:34,359
was aware that a lot of the choices she made

543
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:38,960
as our parent was because of how much she obviously

544
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,880
didn't enjoy the way that she was parented, So she

545
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:44,079
had more of the you want something to cry about

546
00:28:44,319 --> 00:28:46,559
punitive kind of stuff like getting hit the belt and

547
00:28:46,559 --> 00:28:46,960
things like.

548
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 4: That major pain as a parent.

549
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:51,839
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and definitely this kind of stuff where she

550
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:54,839
would probably get in trouble for something she was literally

551
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:59,119
repeating her dad say yeah, and then getting no credit

552
00:28:59,119 --> 00:29:00,839
for the fact that she's, like kid, just repeating what

553
00:29:00,839 --> 00:29:04,400
the adults are saying around her. And so I think

554
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:06,240
my parents were kind of that sweet spot in the

555
00:29:06,359 --> 00:29:09,119
nineties when they were making like a conscious effort to

556
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:09,960
do things differently.

557
00:29:10,279 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 3: Your parents are than me and Hannah's Yeah, which may

558
00:29:16,359 --> 00:29:19,359
create because this movie would have been my grandparents and

559
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:19,920
my parents.

560
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, this movie would have been my grandparents and their.

561
00:29:23,359 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 3: Parents, right, which gives a one generation up. Yeah, one

562
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:31,119
generation up. And they would have been part of the thing,

563
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:33,160
which is good that they get credit for that, But

564
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:35,759
and not that things were always you know, speak when

565
00:29:35,759 --> 00:29:38,680
spoken to, is just sometimes there was those moments in

566
00:29:39,079 --> 00:29:43,119
parental frustration where things went to a little older school.

567
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:46,599
Speaker 1: Which I do think where I want to give the

568
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:50,519
mom credit, especially for the time period this takes place

569
00:29:50,559 --> 00:29:53,319
in she does do things here and there that do

570
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:59,960
speak of her potential for increased emotional awareness and intelligence.

571
00:30:00,759 --> 00:30:05,480
Like when the younger son, what's his name, he's like

572
00:30:05,519 --> 00:30:10,480
five or six, Ralphie's little brother. Do we know his name? Randy? Randy?

573
00:30:12,039 --> 00:30:13,559
Speaker 5: I knew, I can think of it.

574
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 1: I knew it was similar to Ralfie, like they have

575
00:30:15,559 --> 00:30:19,079
that matchy names thing. Yeah, And when Randy won't eat

576
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:23,240
and you can tell that Dad is getting impatient with

577
00:30:23,319 --> 00:30:25,559
him not eating, and Dad's trying to do that thing,

578
00:30:25,599 --> 00:30:29,640
which is old school and dumb, which is just like

579
00:30:30,519 --> 00:30:33,079
telling a kid to snap out of it, especially a

580
00:30:33,119 --> 00:30:36,720
kid that little. He's probably kindergarten age, maybe fush greg kindergarten,

581
00:30:37,279 --> 00:30:40,559
and he's obviously distressed something's going on. And so the

582
00:30:40,599 --> 00:30:42,440
mom does something which is really great and something I

583
00:30:42,559 --> 00:30:44,440
used to do when my work with little kids his age,

584
00:30:44,799 --> 00:30:48,480
which is use play to sort of snap kids out

585
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:50,880
of their mood. So when she does, like show me

586
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,799
what a piggy would do, it's disgusting what he does.

587
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:58,519
I can't stand it, but it is a good intervention

588
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:03,200
for get a kid to snap out of whatever feelings

589
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:06,799
they're stuck in and to get them more buy in

590
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:09,599
to actually go closer to the thing you're wanting them

591
00:31:09,599 --> 00:31:12,000
to do, which win the situation was eating. So like

592
00:31:12,079 --> 00:31:14,720
that was a really good parenting choice there.

593
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:18,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then what Hannah instead of struggling with the

594
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,839
power dynamic, Yes, with a child, power dynamic, with a

595
00:31:22,839 --> 00:31:24,119
power struggle exactly.

596
00:31:24,839 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 4: Yeah.

597
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 3: She does have really great moments of parenting, and that

598
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,279
is one of them. My wife is a daycare director,

599
00:31:31,279 --> 00:31:35,519
so I definitely learn a lot from some of her strategies,

600
00:31:35,519 --> 00:31:38,960
and she would use something like this of distracting them,

601
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:41,279
getting them back into play and trying to move them

602
00:31:41,319 --> 00:31:42,519
off of that emotion.

603
00:31:42,279 --> 00:31:46,279
Speaker 4: Because it won't last long. Yeah, And if you can get.

604
00:31:46,119 --> 00:31:49,759
Speaker 3: Them through that, they will rebound and get kind of

605
00:31:49,799 --> 00:31:53,200
themselves reregulated and go back to taking care of their needs.

606
00:31:53,279 --> 00:31:55,640
But if you get into the power dynamic and continue

607
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:59,640
to up the stress level of the situation, you will

608
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:01,240
get more.

609
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 4: And more ancient behavior moments.

610
00:32:05,359 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 1: Yes, well, because you're right on it, which is that

611
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,839
kids feed off the energy of the adults around them.

612
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,160
So when you do a power struggle thing like dad

613
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:18,319
was going to the kids responding to his stress and

614
00:32:18,359 --> 00:32:21,039
anger and irritability ratching it up. So the kids just

615
00:32:21,119 --> 00:32:24,640
matching your energy. And so when you do what more

616
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,440
the mom did, you're subverting it and you're making more

617
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:29,519
playful and so the kid's going to match that energy.

618
00:32:29,559 --> 00:32:30,680
Like I used to do a ton of that stuff

619
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:32,759
when kids riving our time, and I would use like

620
00:32:32,799 --> 00:32:35,759
a silly voice or do something in a sing song nyway,

621
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:41,200
which is actually a coping intervention, a coping skill. It's

622
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:43,480
a way to do thought diffusion, Like when you're struggling

623
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,200
with a circular thought, you can make it silly and

624
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:47,839
that kind of snaps you out of it a little bit.

625
00:32:48,559 --> 00:32:51,319
And so she is doing a version of that with him.

626
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:53,599
I mean, does she also have other stakes in it,

627
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,960
which is I have to calm Randy down before my

628
00:32:57,039 --> 00:33:01,240
husband gets too upset. For sure, yeah she does.

629
00:33:01,839 --> 00:33:05,559
Speaker 3: She also has the if this kid does not eat

630
00:33:06,079 --> 00:33:09,799
now when we're all eating, then what's going to happen

631
00:33:09,839 --> 00:33:13,279
when it's bedtime is he's not going to sleep because

632
00:33:13,279 --> 00:33:15,799
he's going to be hungry and he's going to want

633
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:17,839
food and now I'm going to have to feed him

634
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,119
or going to be doing all of this shit all

635
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:25,400
over again. And if you think you're gonna be like

636
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:27,759
the tough parent that's gonna send a kid to bed hungry,

637
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,319
you're reading a book and have never been a parent. Yeah,

638
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:33,799
not gonna happen. You're gonna have to feed them. So

639
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,200
it's gonna delay bed time, it's gonna delay teeth brushing,

640
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:37,960
it's gonna get him off their routine, it's gonna get

641
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:41,240
him off their sleep schedule, and then everybody's fucking life

642
00:33:41,279 --> 00:33:43,480
is going to be miserable. And whatever you're trying to

643
00:33:43,519 --> 00:33:46,160
manage Dad from not doing is going to blow up

644
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:50,799
times ten mm hmmm. So everybody's gonna be deregulated if

645
00:33:50,839 --> 00:33:53,400
we can't reregulate and get back in control of this

646
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:55,200
situation right now.

647
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,359
Speaker 1: And then I think another thing that she does well

648
00:33:59,559 --> 00:34:04,039
is when she pulls Ralphie off of Farcas and he's

649
00:34:04,079 --> 00:34:06,440
losing it and he's clearly we would say he's in

650
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:10,599
his emotion mind. He is not an a rational place.

651
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:11,800
He has snapped.

652
00:34:12,199 --> 00:34:12,760
Speaker 4: He snapped.

653
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:15,239
Speaker 3: You see that look on someone's face. That is a

654
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:18,480
good clue that you better stop, yeah, or you will

655
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:19,119
meet their fight.

656
00:34:19,159 --> 00:34:21,159
Speaker 1: Part. Oh, I saw a kid. There was a kid

657
00:34:21,679 --> 00:34:23,400
in my six strade class used to get bullied a

658
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:25,519
lot by this other kid who was an infamous bully.

659
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:27,800
And one day when we had to sub that kid

660
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:29,920
snapped and stabbed at other kid in the arm with

661
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,440
a pencil. It was nuts. I was like right next

662
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:33,960
to them when it happened, and the kid had this

663
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:37,719
pencil sticking out of his arm. Anyway, sidebar. But what

664
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:43,079
the mom does well is she also actually unknowingly unintentionally

665
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:48,440
does another coping strategy, which is like temperature change, where

666
00:34:48,519 --> 00:34:52,119
he's so in his head. When someone's that escalated emotionally,

667
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:56,000
all you can do is try to regulate their immediate

668
00:34:56,079 --> 00:34:59,559
crisis body self. And so what she does is she

669
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:02,559
put so it's like I assume cold water on his

670
00:35:02,679 --> 00:35:05,199
face and on his neck, which is actually the exact

671
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:07,280
right thing to do. It was when a kids that

672
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:09,760
worked up is you don't get into it, you're She

673
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:11,639
does keep saying you need to calm down, which I

674
00:35:11,639 --> 00:35:13,960
don't think she could have not said at this time

675
00:35:14,559 --> 00:35:16,639
because people would just say that even though it doesn't

676
00:35:16,639 --> 00:35:19,599
do anything. But she was like speaking in like a

677
00:35:19,639 --> 00:35:22,519
calmer tone of voice and really just focusing on de

678
00:35:22,679 --> 00:35:25,880
escalating him is almost like his nervous system, which is

679
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:27,639
what you're supposed to do. It's like sometimes called like

680
00:35:27,679 --> 00:35:31,960
shock to your system, where you will hold ice or

681
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:34,199
splash your face with cold water, take a cold shower,

682
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:39,440
put your face in the freezer, something that like shocks

683
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:44,199
you sensationally and hopefully like brings you out of whatever

684
00:35:44,559 --> 00:35:45,639
headspace you're stuck in.

685
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 3: It's an immediate grounding to the immediate moment because there

686
00:35:49,519 --> 00:35:53,199
is drastic stimuli changing where your focus is.

687
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:55,360
Speaker 1: It just distracts your body pretty much.

688
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:57,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, because it has to deal with that is so

689
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:00,239
cold that you need to pay attention to it, because

690
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:02,599
there's only so long you can tolerate it, So whatever

691
00:36:02,639 --> 00:36:04,480
else is going on you need to back off from.

692
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:07,840
It's very important. And it goes back to that same

693
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:12,519
thing again of remembering calm body, calm mind. It does

694
00:36:13,039 --> 00:36:15,800
not ever work the other way.

695
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 1: And then she tells him to go lie down, which

696
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:22,119
is also good. She's just like, go nap, which is

697
00:36:22,159 --> 00:36:26,199
exactly right. Like he's probably going to be exhausted after this,

698
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:29,320
and so instead of getting in his face about what

699
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,960
she saw, I appreciate that she just tried to really

700
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:36,000
calm him down. And then she didn't have any expectations

701
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,960
of him. She was like, just go chill out in

702
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:42,280
your room by yourself. And I bet you she tried

703
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:44,320
to make sure that Randy didn't go in there. I

704
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:46,960
can throw her that bone. Yeah, she probably tried to

705
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:50,719
Keeprandy busy. Yeah, Ralphie had timed himself in his bedroom.

706
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 3: Which he needed because once you go into a hyper

707
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:56,920
arousal state, you're going to go into hypo to recover

708
00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:59,480
period all of us, and it's going to look a

709
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,360
little different. But for a kid in particular, they're you're

710
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:04,679
not gonna be able to explain that to them, he

711
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:08,840
had a full on hyper arousal burst fight mode and

712
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:12,039
he's gonna need to shut down in order to recover.

713
00:37:12,119 --> 00:37:14,719
And had she tried to talk to him about what happened,

714
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:18,800
or think about consequences or get into any of that,

715
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:20,800
all that would have happened is he would have sparked

716
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:24,199
right back up into that hyper aroused state and been

717
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:29,719
absolutely inconsolable and afraid and terrified, and all his nervous,

718
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:33,039
little nervous system would have been completely overridden.

719
00:37:34,079 --> 00:37:37,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's able to clock that. You can't talk to

720
00:37:37,199 --> 00:37:40,800
a kid who's hysterically crying like that. I've watched parents

721
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:47,079
try to rationally engage with their kids who are that upset,

722
00:37:47,559 --> 00:37:50,280
and it's just like we're all wasting our times and

723
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:55,119
probably ratching it up. And what I also appreciate is

724
00:37:55,159 --> 00:37:59,320
that she doesn't really hold a grudge with him about it.

725
00:38:00,039 --> 00:38:02,159
She doesn't know his dad, which might be for other reasons,

726
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:05,079
you know, But she does a thing which I also

727
00:38:05,079 --> 00:38:07,039
really appreciate if parents can do this, which is, if

728
00:38:07,079 --> 00:38:13,480
your kid does something this out of character, then something's happening,

729
00:38:14,079 --> 00:38:17,960
Like something's wrong. It's not just that they've decided this

730
00:38:18,039 --> 00:38:20,880
day to be like a huge asshole that hopefully with

731
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,880
a situation like this, and maybe like modern day parenting,

732
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,920
you're asking your kid, you're like debriefing afterwards, like can

733
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,159
you help me understand what happened there? Because that's so

734
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:34,719
different than how you usually engage with your friends or

735
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:37,920
when you're walking from school. And I think that's really

736
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:41,119
important for parents to have more curiosity when your kid

737
00:38:41,199 --> 00:38:44,880
out out of character yep, than to just like punish

738
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:47,360
them because you're so shocked that they would do this,

739
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:47,960
that and the other.

740
00:38:48,599 --> 00:38:49,239
Speaker 4: I agree.

741
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:54,840
Speaker 3: I think the importance of that debrief is really important

742
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:58,840
because people still keep a lot of emotion stuck under

743
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:02,079
a bubble at that point because whatever burst out of

744
00:39:02,119 --> 00:39:05,840
them to survive that situation they got in. Once that

745
00:39:06,159 --> 00:39:09,440
is resolved, then the shame, the guilt, the fear of

746
00:39:09,519 --> 00:39:13,280
what they just did as they regain the ability to

747
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:16,559
cognitively process it, once they settle down enough kicks in.

748
00:39:17,079 --> 00:39:18,880
That's going to go under a bubble to try to

749
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,639
keep themselves protected, and they won't talk about it. But

750
00:39:21,679 --> 00:39:24,639
if you can create a self or a safe environment

751
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:29,239
for it, you can pop that bubble and allow whatever

752
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:32,360
emotions are still stuck to come out and digest and

753
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:35,199
find out what's really going on. My mom may not

754
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:38,519
know that Scott Farcas and whatever, the other little fucker.

755
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 1: It's little sidekick toad No, they call him a toady.

756
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:46,239
Speaker 5: They call him a toady. That's all they refer to him.

757
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, he had a name.

758
00:39:47,679 --> 00:39:49,639
Speaker 3: Like if what's his name talks to you, you're like,

759
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:50,800
you're not getting punched in the face.

760
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:53,239
Speaker 1: It's like a little newsboy from a cartoon. I know.

761
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:55,119
Speaker 5: It's so weird that he's one of the bullies.

762
00:39:55,199 --> 00:39:56,239
Speaker 1: How'd you get here from New York?

763
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 5: Lackey? They call him a lackey, call.

764
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:02,559
Speaker 3: Him right, But looking at you know, you can find

765
00:40:02,559 --> 00:40:05,000
out Mom may not have known the bullying was that bad.

766
00:40:05,119 --> 00:40:07,559
Ralphi may not have said anything. Yeah, but if you

767
00:40:07,559 --> 00:40:10,400
can get him to talk about it, then we can

768
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:14,320
get you know, a more adaptive response programmed in for

769
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:19,719
next time. Yeah, instead of bursting into a survival rage monster.

770
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:22,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, because they're going to see Farcas again. They are,

771
00:40:23,039 --> 00:40:25,960
you know, and so this is gonna be a regular situation.

772
00:40:26,119 --> 00:40:30,159
So you're right. Part of the debrief is so when

773
00:40:31,559 --> 00:40:34,920
you come across Farcas again, if he antagonizes you, you

774
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:39,039
will what are you gonna do different? And something you

775
00:40:39,079 --> 00:40:41,960
also just brought up was another point I wanted to

776
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:44,360
make too, which is when you said, like does mom

777
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:47,920
even know about farcus and the bullying, which is that

778
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:54,519
when you decide to be a very punitive more like aora,

779
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:58,920
what's authoritarian? Yeah, there's authoritative and authoritarian. I always get the.

780
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:01,360
Speaker 4: Most authoritarian would be more tyrannical.

781
00:41:01,519 --> 00:41:07,079
Speaker 1: Yes, So when you're more of authoritarian parent, what your

782
00:41:07,119 --> 00:41:09,800
kids learn to do is just not tell you shit, yep,

783
00:41:10,159 --> 00:41:11,679
And then you just don't know things that are going on,

784
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:14,840
because what you've established with your kid is that if

785
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:18,599
I tell you about something and you disagree with part

786
00:41:18,599 --> 00:41:21,639
of it, or even if maybe I did something wrong,

787
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:24,079
I'm just gonna get punished and nothing's going to be better.

788
00:41:24,599 --> 00:41:25,079
Speaker 4: Correct.

789
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:26,920
Speaker 1: So why the fuck would I tell you shit?

790
00:41:27,519 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 4: You wouldn't.

791
00:41:28,079 --> 00:41:30,360
Speaker 1: So kids just learn how to be more secretive with

792
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:35,159
their parents, and then the parents are like, what, how

793
00:41:35,199 --> 00:41:36,320
did this house is happening?

794
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:38,000
Speaker 4: Correct?

795
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:41,760
Speaker 3: And that's why it's important to kind of pop that bubble.

796
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:45,639
And we see a little bit of that, not with Ralphie,

797
00:41:45,639 --> 00:41:47,840
but we do see that in her dynamic with Randy

798
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:50,840
when he's under the sink when Randy's under there kind

799
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:53,360
of crying. She does has another really great moment of

800
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:55,599
parenting where she kind of talks with him and asks

801
00:41:55,639 --> 00:41:58,320
him what's going on, what he's saying, and then he's

802
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:04,199
having that secondary reaction that Daddy's gonna kill Ralphie.

803
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:08,360
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, which again, I mean that's very telling.

804
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:12,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very telling that he's actually like his little

805
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:14,159
brain in his little body is really worried about that.

806
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:16,840
Speaker 5: He's upset. He's crying in the he's crying in the.

807
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:18,679
Speaker 4: Cupboard, and it's real to him.

808
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:19,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly.

809
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:23,440
Speaker 3: And people, she doesn't dismiss that outright. She's telling me,

810
00:42:23,559 --> 00:42:25,800
Daddy's not going to kill Ralphie. Can I get you

811
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:29,320
some milk? Do you need anything? And then she just like,

812
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:30,800
do you want to come out? And he says no,

813
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:32,920
and she gets him the milk and lets him kind

814
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:34,880
of close the door and go back in there and

815
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:38,119
have his space. I thought she did awesome there.

816
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:41,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, itys a lot about how she probably does have

817
00:42:41,119 --> 00:42:45,719
a lot of good innate natural empathy and emotional intelligence.

818
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:48,920
She's just in a time period where that's not really

819
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:50,679
how you go about doing stuff.

820
00:42:51,119 --> 00:42:53,519
Speaker 3: No, they didn't have most of the words that we're using.

821
00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:58,159
Oh yeah, you know, to even developed yet and looking

822
00:42:58,199 --> 00:43:00,920
at how much more or we will.

823
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:02,360
Speaker 4: Talk to kids and encourage that. Now.

824
00:43:02,559 --> 00:43:05,239
Speaker 3: I would have loved for their if this were in

825
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:09,360
modern times, to be a conversation with the brother a

826
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:12,159
little bit more about what makes you think Daddy would

827
00:43:12,519 --> 00:43:16,360
kill Ralphie or what did you think happen today and

828
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:19,239
how are you feeling about it, and letting him if

829
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:20,960
Randy was in a space he was ready to talk

830
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:23,199
about it yet, but explore that a little bit more.

831
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:25,599
Speaker 4: But for nineteen forty she did awesome.

832
00:43:26,679 --> 00:43:28,239
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

833
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:30,679
Speaker 2: I think the other thing that I wanted to bring

834
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:33,840
up while we're talking about parenting is when you teach

835
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:37,639
your children to be afraid of you, that is how

836
00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:42,559
they identify other relationships that they should feel afraid and

837
00:43:42,639 --> 00:43:46,239
that that's a normal and natural experience to have. Yeah,

838
00:43:47,079 --> 00:43:50,320
So when you raise your voice or talk loudly, or

839
00:43:50,639 --> 00:43:53,199
punish your child in that way, you are teaching them

840
00:43:53,599 --> 00:43:56,199
that being fearful of someone who's supposed to take care

841
00:43:56,199 --> 00:43:58,199
of them is a natural experience.

842
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:02,880
Speaker 1: It's a part of love. Yes, Then kids will grow

843
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:05,960
up and they'll tolerate a lot of not great stuff

844
00:44:06,599 --> 00:44:11,840
from other relationships, friends, partners, YadA, YadA, which is the

845
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:14,239
generational part of this we've been talking about.

846
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:16,800
Speaker 3: All right, let's take a break here and we'll pick

847
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:19,760
back up with parenting A and we're back, and so

848
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:23,119
let's talk about the relationship between mom and dad. While

849
00:44:23,159 --> 00:44:26,159
not a major component of this movie is it's largely

850
00:44:26,159 --> 00:44:30,559
about kids, the dynamic is definitely present and impacts this family.

851
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:31,599
Speaker 4: What do we see?

852
00:44:31,679 --> 00:44:34,440
Speaker 1: I remember I was gonna say yes, so let's just

853
00:44:34,599 --> 00:44:36,679
lead into this, So this is a good segue. Territory

854
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:40,800
is that we see, obviously because of the time period,

855
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:47,079
a very traditional gender role dynamic between Mom and dad. Yes,

856
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:52,079
And a part of that is this like submissive nature

857
00:44:52,199 --> 00:44:57,280
in mom where Dad is in charge, right, and Mom

858
00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:01,280
has this like meekness about her, where there are certain

859
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:04,199
things she won't touch that Dad says and does right.

860
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:07,320
And I think that's where it bleeds into the parenting,

861
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:13,199
is that they can't actually address problems with their mutual

862
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:16,119
parenting and how it's showing up in Ralphie and maybe

863
00:45:16,199 --> 00:45:21,280
Randy's behavior because we can't acknowledge and she can't challenge Dad.

864
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:25,119
So when the fuck thing happens when the bar soap

865
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:29,320
swearing situation happens. I think in a more modern relationship,

866
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:34,039
she would just maybe they would like do a little

867
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:38,559
somewhat punishmenty consequency thing with Ralphie, you know. But I

868
00:45:38,599 --> 00:45:41,039
also think or I would hope that the mom would

869
00:45:41,079 --> 00:45:42,320
go to dad and be like, you know, where he's

870
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:45,639
learning that word? You know, we need to watch our mouths.

871
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:48,599
You need to watch your mouth. Like there are moments

872
00:45:48,599 --> 00:45:52,800
in which she could challenge what they're doing and what

873
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:57,480
Dad is modeling for the kids. But in this dynamic

874
00:45:57,559 --> 00:46:02,119
where you can't challenge the patriarch like that she has

875
00:46:02,119 --> 00:46:05,840
her own sort of like fearish thing with him, you

876
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:08,000
can't go there. And so then these things just go

877
00:46:08,119 --> 00:46:12,920
unsolved and go unfixed because we can't talk about what's

878
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:16,400
really not working or what's really causing some of these issues,

879
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:17,840
which is dad.

880
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:18,719
Speaker 4: Yeah.

881
00:46:19,079 --> 00:46:23,960
Speaker 3: I mean, in the nineteen forties etiquette and relationship, it

882
00:46:24,039 --> 00:46:27,119
probably wouldn't have been a thing, at least not an

883
00:46:27,199 --> 00:46:31,159
encouraged thing. And I'm sure that had consequences that weren't okay,

884
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:36,039
And it certainly doesn't represent how relationships are now in

885
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:39,840
many places, but in some others they still are very

886
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:42,880
much stuck in that old space, and people think that

887
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:46,800
one partner deserves more power over another, which leads to

888
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:48,280
some of the problems you're describing.

889
00:46:48,599 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, because then how do you address stuff like this?

890
00:46:50,639 --> 00:46:55,159
You can't. Can't, You truly can't, especially in this time

891
00:46:55,199 --> 00:47:00,719
period where the woman is entirely depending didn't on the

892
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:06,519
man for their livelihood, for their security and safety and

893
00:47:06,559 --> 00:47:11,599
all this stuff. So to upset the dad at worst,

894
00:47:11,679 --> 00:47:15,599
I mean, at best, you're like a stereotypical nag, which

895
00:47:15,639 --> 00:47:19,320
doesn't feel good, and at worst he will take it

896
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:21,719
out on you in a way that could be genuinely scary.

897
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:26,239
What it ties into here is that it I think

898
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:28,239
I see a lot of moments in this movie where

899
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:33,559
I would interpret them both as pretty lonely. But I

900
00:47:33,559 --> 00:47:35,480
guess before I kind of go into it, because I've

901
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:38,079
been talking a lot of this episode, how would you

902
00:47:38,199 --> 00:47:40,519
both Maybe I'll throw it to you, Hannah, because you're

903
00:47:40,519 --> 00:47:44,239
the marriage and family therapist. How would you evaluate or

904
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:46,480
assess their relationship with each other?

905
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:51,840
Speaker 2: Oh, I think that they are. I think that they're

906
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:57,559
both completely disengaged from the romantic relationship. I think that

907
00:47:58,559 --> 00:48:03,239
she is largely leaning into the mother role which I

908
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:06,079
think again, because of the power dynamic between her and

909
00:48:06,119 --> 00:48:12,239
her husband, is her only option in a lot of ways,

910
00:48:13,119 --> 00:48:17,039
I think that I also agree that they're both lonely.

911
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:19,840
I think they're both lonely. I don't think they're getting

912
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:24,360
any kind of connection. I think even when we see

913
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:28,440
some of their small even romantic moments, that those are

914
00:48:28,639 --> 00:48:32,719
happening only when the kids are not around. They're not

915
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:35,079
able to not that they're miserable fucks in front of

916
00:48:35,079 --> 00:48:38,599
the kids all the time, but just like most of

917
00:48:38,639 --> 00:48:40,880
the time that they seem to be close is when

918
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:45,599
the kids aren't necessarily around, and so you're also so

919
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:48,760
what that also shows is in terms of the kids,

920
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:50,960
is that then we also have these kids who are

921
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:54,199
seeing this relationship with these two people who seem to

922
00:48:54,199 --> 00:48:57,880
be miserable, and that's the and that becomes the status quo.

923
00:48:58,599 --> 00:48:58,840
Speaker 4: Yep.

924
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:02,159
Speaker 3: I think they only find some small moments of joy,

925
00:49:02,159 --> 00:49:04,039
But the moments of joy they seem to find with

926
00:49:04,119 --> 00:49:08,159
each other, we don't see happening with each other.

927
00:49:08,199 --> 00:49:09,360
Speaker 4: It's about the kids.

928
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:12,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like it's never focused on the relationship. That's what

929
00:49:12,599 --> 00:49:14,800
I was trying to get at. It's never focused on

930
00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:17,800
them being connected to each other, them feeling like they're

931
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:21,440
on the same team, them feeling like they are creating

932
00:49:21,519 --> 00:49:24,880
a loving, open household for their children, like there is

933
00:49:25,079 --> 00:49:26,599
there's no connection there.

934
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:29,559
Speaker 1: So I would really put.

935
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:33,000
Speaker 2: Them as people who are pretty unhappy in their relationship,

936
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:37,519
pretty unhappy in their marriage, and are maybe having a

937
00:49:37,599 --> 00:49:41,360
neutral experience as parents, because when you're still in this

938
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:44,840
dynamic where you're not allowed to go above the gender

939
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:47,760
role in any kind of way, then you get really

940
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:49,800
stuck in the kinds of things that you can talk

941
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:52,360
about kind of what you were saying, kind of what

942
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:56,239
we were all talking about, that there's no room for

943
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:59,760
growth or questioning or curiosity in this relationship.

944
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:05,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I think what I noticed this time around

945
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:08,920
watching it with my therapist eyes and ears is in

946
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:11,719
the I think it's the opening scene of them when

947
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:13,880
it's I think it's I don't know if it's dinner

948
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:17,000
or breakfast, but Dad's reading the paper at the table,

949
00:50:17,559 --> 00:50:22,960
Mom's doing a bunch of like harried multitasking to get

950
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:26,039
the meal on the table, and he is trying to

951
00:50:26,119 --> 00:50:29,679
engage with her. They actually kind of introduced them, like

952
00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:33,400
if I just saw that scene and wasn't thinking about

953
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:38,360
all the labor she's doing. Yeah, I would probably judge

954
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:41,280
her harder that, Like he's trying to make a few

955
00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:44,039
bids of connection with her, Like he's trying to bring

956
00:50:44,119 --> 00:50:47,480
up what he's reading in the paper, this thing he's doing,

957
00:50:47,679 --> 00:50:50,719
like he's a few times in that opening exchange, he

958
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:53,199
is trying to get her attention and pull her into

959
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:58,559
a conversation. Yes, and he's getting disappointed because she's giving

960
00:50:58,639 --> 00:51:02,360
him these non aisuse she's not paying attention, and you

961
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:04,840
can see it's bumming him out. I think that was

962
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:06,599
really telling to me in a way I hadn't thought

963
00:51:06,599 --> 00:51:10,800
about before that he is trying to find a connection

964
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:14,400
with her, and maybe he even thinks in his worldview,

965
00:51:15,119 --> 00:51:18,679
why doesn't my wife pay more attention to me? Why

966
00:51:18,679 --> 00:51:20,639
doesn't she talk to me about the things I care about?

967
00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:22,960
He seems like the kind of guy who had come

968
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:26,199
in a couple's therapy and be like, I am trying

969
00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:30,079
really hard to connect. I bring up stuff that I'm reading,

970
00:51:30,119 --> 00:51:31,519
like I'm trying to have a conversation with you, and

971
00:51:31,519 --> 00:51:34,039
you're the one that blows me off. And he might

972
00:51:34,079 --> 00:51:37,559
come in feeling like he is the lonely one and

973
00:51:37,599 --> 00:51:43,320
that she's not doing enough and not understanding that she's

974
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:47,360
doing all this stuff all the time, so she's distracted.

975
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:50,599
He's trying to engage her in moments when she is

976
00:51:50,679 --> 00:51:53,719
not able to be engaged with, and he's not.

977
00:51:53,639 --> 00:51:56,480
Speaker 3: Doing anything to take the workload off the Yes, late

978
00:51:57,199 --> 00:51:59,599
because you know, he goes to work, so his life's

979
00:51:59,639 --> 00:52:00,199
really hard.

980
00:52:01,119 --> 00:52:04,280
Speaker 1: Yes, his eight hour shift is so much harder than

981
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:06,079
her twenty four hour shifts every day.

982
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:08,360
Speaker 3: I mean, he probably isn't working eight hour shifts. He's

983
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:13,760
probably working ten twelve. But it still doesn't justify not

984
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:17,079
taking the load off her plate while you're raising children

985
00:52:17,159 --> 00:52:18,000
you helped create.

986
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:21,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like he's got his weekends off and his evenings off.

987
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:26,599
She doesn't have any time off exactly exactly. And so

988
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:29,400
you wonder why a partner doesn't want to engage with you,

989
00:52:30,039 --> 00:52:33,119
it's because they're exhausted. They're exhausted from carrying the load

990
00:52:33,159 --> 00:52:36,639
by themselves. It continues to create a narrative in which

991
00:52:36,719 --> 00:52:39,599
I have to do this by myself and you can

992
00:52:39,639 --> 00:52:41,440
just do whatever you want. I guess because that's the

993
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:44,559
way that this dynamic is working out for us. It

994
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:49,000
just creates so many barriers to connection and to being

995
00:52:49,039 --> 00:52:51,400
on the same team. That's one of the things I

996
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:56,320
have to remind couples about the most, that you're on

997
00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:58,880
the same team. This is supposed to be your favorite

998
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:01,920
person in the world. What the fuck is going on

999
00:53:02,559 --> 00:53:05,119
that we can't even have a conversation about how much

1000
00:53:05,159 --> 00:53:10,559
you fucking swear well? And also I think we're projecting

1001
00:53:10,679 --> 00:53:13,159
also like a modern view of relationship down to them,

1002
00:53:13,679 --> 00:53:17,000
because what I do think is interesting about them, it

1003
00:53:17,039 --> 00:53:20,800
makes me curious about the genesis of their relationship. Is

1004
00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:24,880
they have a substantial age gap, which isn't the most

1005
00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:29,360
bonkers thing, especially true back then, I assume, But he's

1006
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:32,440
like must be like twenty years older than her or

1007
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:34,840
around that fifteen to twenty years older than her, And

1008
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:38,960
their kids are fairly young for the fact that they're

1009
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:43,920
in there clearly in their like early forties and then

1010
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:46,840
like late fifties. Yeah, for them to have like a

1011
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:49,679
nine and a probably six year old, maybe even five

1012
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:53,360
year old is fairly young. So it makes me curious

1013
00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:56,239
about all that, like the choices to have made them

1014
00:53:56,280 --> 00:53:58,599
that old and that kind of thing, and how that

1015
00:53:58,679 --> 00:54:02,679
might have a different color to their dynamic. But like,

1016
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:04,800
did they even get married because they like each other?

1017
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:09,000
Did they get married because they're both older and you know,

1018
00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:11,800
maybe it was just time to get married and he

1019
00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:14,119
was the guy that asked her and she was older.

1020
00:54:14,679 --> 00:54:16,440
You know, like we don't know any of these parts

1021
00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:20,239
of it. But I think that is also something to

1022
00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:23,840
consider in terms of what they expected out of a

1023
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:29,159
marriage and what they thought it would look like in

1024
00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:32,159
terms of feeling lonely or not lonely with each other,

1025
00:54:32,199 --> 00:54:34,800
because they're not on the same team, like as we're

1026
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:38,199
talking about, like this time period, a marriage wasn't equitable, no,

1027
00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:41,800
and so they aren't on the same team. So I

1028
00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:43,840
really don't even know if I would understand like the

1029
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:47,519
head like the headspace of a man or a woman

1030
00:54:47,679 --> 00:54:48,320
at that time.

1031
00:54:48,519 --> 00:54:50,760
Speaker 4: We wouldn't because we didn't live it, you know.

1032
00:54:51,559 --> 00:54:52,960
Speaker 1: And what's acceptable and what's not.

1033
00:54:53,519 --> 00:54:57,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, And you know, taking the actors that they chose

1034
00:54:57,320 --> 00:55:00,880
to portray the characters that face value too, you know,

1035
00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:04,079
we don't know if I haven't read the books, no,

1036
00:55:04,639 --> 00:55:06,719
so I don't know, you know, how the author would

1037
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:10,360
have presented it. Taking just the actors that they pick

1038
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:12,760
doesn't necessarily mean that in the story the parents weren't

1039
00:55:13,199 --> 00:55:15,639
closer in age, but the actors clearly are would you

1040
00:55:15,679 --> 00:55:17,400
say they're like twenty years apart the actors?

1041
00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:20,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, I looked it up because I was curious because

1042
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:22,840
my second note no offense to this actor, was why

1043
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:27,679
is this dad so old? Because he is especially for

1044
00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:30,800
this time when people were having kids, getting married and

1045
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:33,920
having kids, like you'd marry your high school sweetheart. Yeah,

1046
00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:35,719
and I was very normal, like you were having your

1047
00:55:35,719 --> 00:55:37,880
first kids at like twenty twenty one, twenty two.

1048
00:55:38,079 --> 00:55:38,760
Speaker 4: Oh yeah.

1049
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:41,920
Speaker 1: So for them to be older and have had kids

1050
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:44,320
so much older, I don't know it just I mean,

1051
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:45,760
I know we're reading into it the way we like

1052
00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:49,360
to do with movies. It just makes me curious about

1053
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:53,360
the dynamic as well. In that I also wonder if

1054
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:56,000
they even have this, like I said, expectation that once

1055
00:55:56,039 --> 00:55:59,920
I'm married, I will have a friend in my part

1056
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:04,400
partner that I won't be lonely. That doesn't mean that

1057
00:56:05,159 --> 00:56:08,639
these people won't experience profound loneliness and maybe not even

1058
00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:12,599
understand how to fix it or if that's possible to

1059
00:56:12,639 --> 00:56:15,960
fix it. There might have been a lot of accepted

1060
00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:18,559
loneliness their adulthood.

1061
00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:21,280
Speaker 3: I think with this time period to what we don't

1062
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:23,239
see because it's from the standpoint of a nine year

1063
00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:26,880
old is whatever social interactions they may.

1064
00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:29,320
Speaker 1: Have had, Yeah, we don't see any friends because we're

1065
00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:30,639
not following them.

1066
00:56:30,559 --> 00:56:33,519
Speaker 3: Or you know, moms would have been involved with groups

1067
00:56:33,559 --> 00:56:35,320
of other moms in the community and they would have

1068
00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:37,960
been doing things, and we don't see any of that

1069
00:56:38,119 --> 00:56:41,400
because it's not as pertinent to the story. But it's

1070
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:43,519
fair to look at these two and see from their

1071
00:56:43,519 --> 00:56:46,400
behavior with each other that there's not a lot going

1072
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:46,880
on there.

1073
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:49,199
Speaker 1: No, they don't have chemistry, I'll tell you that much.

1074
00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:54,119
Speaker 3: Only in a few moments do they have like interaction.

1075
00:56:54,239 --> 00:56:58,280
But there seems to be some pretty hardcore like resentment

1076
00:56:58,360 --> 00:57:05,760
when mom likes saunters over while vacuuming and accidentally breaks

1077
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:11,480
that lamp. Yeah, and she's sitting there laughing her ass off,

1078
00:57:12,079 --> 00:57:15,760
watching him try to glue this thing together and trying

1079
00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:19,519
not to get caught laughing her ass off and look

1080
00:57:19,679 --> 00:57:22,599
very sad and shameful and like sorry, But you can

1081
00:57:22,639 --> 00:57:28,599
see her loving every second of the collapse of that

1082
00:57:28,719 --> 00:57:31,039
lamp and her just like.

1083
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:31,719
Speaker 4: Walking in there.

1084
00:57:31,800 --> 00:57:34,760
Speaker 3: The look on that actress's face was fucking brilliant. Everyone

1085
00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:37,159
knew it was gonna happen, that that lamp.

1086
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:37,840
Speaker 4: Ain't gonna survive.

1087
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:41,840
Speaker 3: And yes, Dad is inappropriately attaching to it. And is

1088
00:57:41,840 --> 00:57:46,119
he doing that because he's lonely and there's no spark

1089
00:57:46,199 --> 00:57:49,280
between them, and that's igniting some feelings in him that

1090
00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:50,679
maybe have been a little dormant.

1091
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:51,760
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1092
00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:59,960
Speaker 1: Probably, Yeah, his preoccupation with the lamp feels just indicative

1093
00:58:00,079 --> 00:58:04,280
of how many needs he's not getting met, and not

1094
00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:07,960
because Mom's fault, I think just the dynamic that they're in. Yeah,

1095
00:58:08,039 --> 00:58:10,239
because she's also not getting those needs met. Because this

1096
00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:12,960
goes back to what we were saying earlier. She doesn't feel

1097
00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:14,440
like she can go to her husband and be like,

1098
00:58:14,440 --> 00:58:19,400
get that goddamn, fucking this weird like perverted lamp out

1099
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:21,559
of our front goddamn window. Were all our neighbors can see,

1100
00:58:21,559 --> 00:58:24,519
we're looking like we have the pervert house. Now we

1101
00:58:24,599 --> 00:58:26,760
have like you're making our house look like a whorehouse.

1102
00:58:26,840 --> 00:58:27,880
Speaker 4: Like that's what I feel like.

1103
00:58:28,119 --> 00:58:31,039
Speaker 3: People are gonna come here and proposition me for money.

1104
00:58:31,199 --> 00:58:32,880
Get that ship out of my window.

1105
00:58:33,119 --> 00:58:37,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, because that's like an outrageously sexually especially for them,

1106
00:58:38,199 --> 00:58:40,639
and the fact that she doesn't feel like she has

1107
00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:42,000
any say in her house.

1108
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:43,440
Speaker 4: Is a major award.

1109
00:58:43,599 --> 00:58:47,280
Speaker 1: Brittany Oh my god, what did he win it for?

1110
00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:49,719
They don't tell us, do they not tell it? Like

1111
00:58:49,719 --> 00:58:53,079
a sweepstakes probably, or something stupid like crossword puzzle or

1112
00:58:53,119 --> 00:58:55,159
the crossword puzzle. I thought it was from the Yeah,

1113
00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:56,440
he does do the crossword puzzle?

1114
00:58:56,599 --> 00:58:57,320
Speaker 4: Is that what it's from?

1115
00:58:57,440 --> 00:58:57,639
Speaker 5: Yeah?

1116
00:58:57,960 --> 00:59:00,559
Speaker 1: They make my brain does want to say that's true

1117
00:59:00,559 --> 00:59:02,119
because he was talking about the cross from the beginning,

1118
00:59:02,159 --> 00:59:07,039
but who knows. Yeah, but it is kind of interesting,

1119
00:59:07,119 --> 00:59:09,719
like even because the house is her domain and she

1120
00:59:09,800 --> 00:59:12,719
can't even feel like she's allowed to say, get that

1121
00:59:12,840 --> 00:59:16,159
lamp out of the window, that she has to go

1122
00:59:16,239 --> 00:59:21,719
about this sneaky accidentally breaking the lamp thing to get

1123
00:59:21,719 --> 00:59:24,480
that need met because she cannot suck to her husband

1124
00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:28,559
and then he's surprised he's lonely. Yeah.

1125
00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:34,079
Speaker 3: Uh, he solved a series of newspaper puzzles by a

1126
00:59:34,159 --> 00:59:35,039
pop company.

1127
00:59:35,480 --> 00:59:36,920
Speaker 4: They don't cover this in the movie, but they must

1128
00:59:36,960 --> 00:59:37,679
do it in the book.

1129
00:59:38,159 --> 00:59:42,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, which makes sense because knee high grape was a

1130
00:59:42,519 --> 00:59:45,960
popular brand back then. So when he gets a knee

1131
00:59:46,039 --> 00:59:50,480
high leg lamp, oh, wearing knee highs Oh?

1132
00:59:50,559 --> 00:59:53,239
Speaker 1: Is it like remember those types of a COmON shut

1133
00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:56,280
like eggs? Yes, that's what it is making to think

1134
00:59:56,280 --> 00:59:58,239
of Yes, legs and eggs.

1135
00:59:57,920 --> 00:59:59,079
Speaker 5: Legs and eggs.

1136
01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:03,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'll even but even then, now I'm getting

1137
01:00:03,840 --> 01:00:06,320
more mad for the mom. Even then, this motherfucker has

1138
01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:09,840
enough time to play so many games that he can

1139
01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:10,840
win a prize for them.

1140
01:00:11,599 --> 01:00:11,800
Speaker 3: Yep.

1141
01:00:11,920 --> 01:00:13,840
Speaker 1: And I could see her being resentful of the lamp

1142
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:16,599
just because of what it means. Because of that, I'd

1143
01:00:16,639 --> 01:00:18,960
be like, fuck you in your lamp that you have

1144
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:21,559
time to do these little games where I'm running around

1145
01:00:21,599 --> 01:00:26,039
this house to carry your kids, you know, not being

1146
01:00:26,159 --> 01:00:29,679
stimulated anyway, probably, Yeah, and then you get to play

1147
01:00:29,679 --> 01:00:31,400
your puzzles and then whatever.

1148
01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:36,159
Speaker 3: And we wonder why Ralphie is thinking it's okay to

1149
01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:39,679
occupy the bathroom even though Randy clearly is about to

1150
01:00:39,719 --> 01:00:44,360
pee his pants so he can solve a puzzle that

1151
01:00:44,519 --> 01:00:45,679
was on the radio.

1152
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:51,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just like his dad, look at that. Yeah, priorities.

1153
01:00:51,920 --> 01:00:54,599
Speaker 3: So does there anything else we didn't cover with their

1154
01:00:54,679 --> 01:00:58,519
relationship and our wild speculation ride here based on the

1155
01:00:58,559 --> 01:01:00,920
actors ages presentations.

1156
01:01:01,360 --> 01:01:03,400
Speaker 1: I have some stuff more that I could say, but

1157
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:07,679
I'm gonna save it for treatment about their dynamic. And

1158
01:01:08,159 --> 01:01:09,559
I guess what I want to say to all those

1159
01:01:09,559 --> 01:01:13,679
people that are like waxing poetic about the good old

1160
01:01:13,760 --> 01:01:16,880
days with like trad wives and shit and when men

1161
01:01:16,920 --> 01:01:18,679
were men. And I don't think a lot of them

1162
01:01:18,679 --> 01:01:21,079
are probably listening to our podcast, probably, but in case

1163
01:01:21,119 --> 01:01:23,199
they are, if they're in the car with someone time,

1164
01:01:24,920 --> 01:01:28,239
these people weren't happy. This is what this is more

1165
01:01:28,280 --> 01:01:30,079
accurate of what it probably was like for a lot

1166
01:01:30,079 --> 01:01:32,599
of people, which is that you were very lucky if

1167
01:01:32,639 --> 01:01:34,199
you ended up in a relationship with someone that you

1168
01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:37,280
genuinely liked mm hmm and got your needs met from.

1169
01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:40,199
And it was more just these two people orbiting each other,

1170
01:01:40,559 --> 01:01:44,559
probably both resentful, both feeling lonely, both not sure how

1171
01:01:44,599 --> 01:01:47,199
to stop the cycle of being resentful and lonely, not

1172
01:01:47,239 --> 01:01:49,440
feeling like they can talk to each other like. That's

1173
01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:51,119
what it means when you have this dynamic.

1174
01:01:51,599 --> 01:01:54,960
Speaker 3: So before we start treatment here, I'd just like to

1175
01:01:55,760 --> 01:01:59,079
remind everybody that take a second and look back at

1176
01:01:59,119 --> 01:02:02,760
the cast of Cheers. Oh, I know what you're gonna say,

1177
01:02:03,320 --> 01:02:07,119
and look at the ages of those actors in the eighties.

1178
01:02:07,239 --> 01:02:10,079
Speaker 1: We're all older than all the characters and Cheers.

1179
01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:12,519
Speaker 4: Currently currently right now.

1180
01:02:12,960 --> 01:02:18,719
Speaker 1: Norm and was the other guy's name, The mailman Cliff Cliff.

1181
01:02:18,840 --> 01:02:22,480
They were like thirty four when that show started.

1182
01:02:23,360 --> 01:02:25,519
Speaker 5: Wow, they look like they're in their fifties.

1183
01:02:25,800 --> 01:02:28,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's talk about that too, when we can

1184
01:02:28,159 --> 01:02:31,039
talk about the good old days age? Do you like

1185
01:02:31,079 --> 01:02:31,800
a motherfucker?

1186
01:02:33,159 --> 01:02:33,360
Speaker 4: Right?

1187
01:02:33,559 --> 01:02:36,559
Speaker 3: So, just as a caveat that, we do know we're

1188
01:02:36,599 --> 01:02:40,199
speculating wildly. So when you leave us comments, we know

1189
01:02:41,039 --> 01:02:45,199
we kids, we know we're speculating. We know the actors

1190
01:02:45,199 --> 01:02:48,320
may have been chosen because they better represented the way

1191
01:02:48,360 --> 01:02:50,519
people may have looked back then, and the dad being

1192
01:02:50,559 --> 01:02:52,920
sixty may have been the way it was artistically displayed

1193
01:02:52,920 --> 01:02:56,079
to the child. We know, for God's sake, we.

1194
01:02:56,039 --> 01:02:57,119
Speaker 5: Know we do.

1195
01:02:57,360 --> 01:02:58,400
Speaker 1: This is the fun of the pod.

1196
01:02:58,760 --> 01:03:01,559
Speaker 3: We're just speculation to me because that's our emotional reaction

1197
01:03:01,639 --> 01:03:02,440
to it as what we saw.

1198
01:03:02,960 --> 01:03:06,679
Speaker 4: Yes, so treatment who wants to go first?

1199
01:03:07,199 --> 01:03:08,719
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess I can go since I'm gonna

1200
01:03:08,760 --> 01:03:10,880
roof off of what we're just talking about anyway. Okay,

1201
01:03:11,199 --> 01:03:15,760
so what comes up for me? And thinking about the

1202
01:03:15,800 --> 01:03:17,880
loneliness of both feeling like I said, reminds me of

1203
01:03:17,960 --> 01:03:22,719
one I work with couples sometimes and one partner will

1204
01:03:23,960 --> 01:03:27,480
complain of loneliness understandably, So like I'm not invalidating that.

1205
01:03:28,159 --> 01:03:30,000
And we'll say like, I'm trying, I'm trying, I'm doing this,

1206
01:03:30,039 --> 01:03:31,440
I'm doing that, and the other and then the other

1207
01:03:31,559 --> 01:03:34,280
partner and I'm gonna be real when I do this.

1208
01:03:34,320 --> 01:03:38,079
And it's heterosexual relationships, usually the guy is the one

1209
01:03:38,079 --> 01:03:40,559
who's like, I am trying, I'm doing this, I'm doing that,

1210
01:03:41,000 --> 01:03:45,519
and the wife is the female partners usually yeah, and

1211
01:03:46,400 --> 01:03:50,719
I'm doing all this shit. You know, I'm busy. I'm

1212
01:03:50,760 --> 01:03:53,880
not trying to ignore you or not be available to you.

1213
01:03:55,000 --> 01:03:57,480
I'm I got a million things happening in my head.

1214
01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:02,199
So your attempts to reach out to me are not

1215
01:04:02,360 --> 01:04:07,440
working because either you're trying at wrong time or I am,

1216
01:04:07,480 --> 01:04:11,039
like you said earlier, Hannah, I'm exhausted. I'm mentally exhausted,

1217
01:04:11,039 --> 01:04:16,679
physically exhausted, both whatever. So when you are gonna approach

1218
01:04:17,360 --> 01:04:20,199
this kind of dynamic with a couple, you have to

1219
01:04:20,320 --> 01:04:23,280
focus on division of labor and equity of labor, which

1220
01:04:23,280 --> 01:04:25,360
is a conversation they could not have had. So when

1221
01:04:25,360 --> 01:04:29,039
I'm talking about treatment, I wouldn't do this with this

1222
01:04:29,119 --> 01:04:31,320
actual mom and dad. But if they were, like if

1223
01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:33,519
someone liked them were to come into my office nowadays,

1224
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:37,480
and they were like, I'm feeling lonely. I'm also feeling lonely.

1225
01:04:37,599 --> 01:04:39,199
Usually what they say is I want to work on

1226
01:04:39,280 --> 01:04:43,760
our intimacy intimacy, but they usually have different examples of

1227
01:04:43,760 --> 01:04:46,760
what intimacy means. But I could see this dad saying

1228
01:04:46,800 --> 01:04:48,840
in this movie, like I'm trying to have conversations with

1229
01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:51,960
you in the morning. You don't care. You don't care

1230
01:04:52,000 --> 01:04:53,760
about what I like, You don't care. I'm trying. I'm trying.

1231
01:04:53,800 --> 01:04:57,880
I'm trying. And what he's missing is that she's doing

1232
01:04:57,920 --> 01:05:02,920
all this other stuff all the time while he's trying

1233
01:05:02,920 --> 01:05:05,280
to engage with her. Like Ralphie does have that very

1234
01:05:05,320 --> 01:05:08,199
insightful quote from probably more of his adult perception, which

1235
01:05:08,199 --> 01:05:10,440
is my mom hadn't had a hot meal in fifteen years,

1236
01:05:11,360 --> 01:05:15,079
that she is constantly thinking about what everyone else needs

1237
01:05:15,599 --> 01:05:18,920
working on that doing that, she's like got a she's project,

1238
01:05:18,960 --> 01:05:24,239
managing their household and so, and if you want to

1239
01:05:24,280 --> 01:05:27,519
have your partner be more available to you mentally, you

1240
01:05:27,639 --> 01:05:31,519
have to create a system in the household in which

1241
01:05:31,559 --> 01:05:33,679
they can be So what that looks like is you

1242
01:05:33,679 --> 01:05:36,400
have to actually sit down and realize, like who is

1243
01:05:36,440 --> 01:05:40,400
doing what and how much of especially and nowadays when

1244
01:05:40,480 --> 01:05:45,440
most couples both are usually working. But even then, you know,

1245
01:05:45,639 --> 01:05:47,519
if we're going to think about her work as work,

1246
01:05:47,559 --> 01:05:50,519
which was all, would be another whole discussion with this couple. Like,

1247
01:05:50,599 --> 01:05:52,679
first we'd have to get the dad to acknowledge what

1248
01:05:52,719 --> 01:05:55,760
the mom is doing is also work. Yes, she is

1249
01:05:55,840 --> 01:06:00,000
managing your household, it's work, and that her shifts never stipd.

1250
01:06:00,920 --> 01:06:04,119
She's working around the clock seven days a week. And

1251
01:06:04,239 --> 01:06:06,760
so I'd first have to get him bored on board

1252
01:06:06,800 --> 01:06:11,320
for that. And then a book that I was actually

1253
01:06:11,320 --> 01:06:12,960
recommended to me by a couple I worked with, so

1254
01:06:12,960 --> 01:06:15,360
shout out to them. And then I read because I

1255
01:06:15,440 --> 01:06:17,320
like to read things that my clients are reading so

1256
01:06:17,360 --> 01:06:20,280
that I can know what they're talking about and if

1257
01:06:20,280 --> 01:06:22,880
I need to fact check it to be honest, because

1258
01:06:23,079 --> 01:06:26,559
some of the self help stuff is bonkers why written?

1259
01:06:27,280 --> 01:06:29,599
Speaker 5: So I have no background in mental health, so I

1260
01:06:29,639 --> 01:06:30,159
have to read a.

1261
01:06:30,599 --> 01:06:33,519
Speaker 3: Teen year old and I am a relationship coach and

1262
01:06:33,880 --> 01:06:38,679
I printed a book, so obviously it is full of facts.

1263
01:06:39,239 --> 01:06:41,679
Speaker 1: Well, usually it's more like I'm a person with a

1264
01:06:41,719 --> 01:06:44,639
ton of privilege, and I don't recognize that privilege at all,

1265
01:06:45,199 --> 01:06:46,719
But I think you could live a life like me

1266
01:06:46,760 --> 01:06:48,440
if you do these twelve things I do every day.

1267
01:06:48,719 --> 01:06:49,039
Speaker 4: Yep.

1268
01:06:49,199 --> 01:06:52,800
Speaker 1: And it's like, well, okay, you're starting at the third

1269
01:06:52,840 --> 01:06:57,320
base and not understanding that. But AnyWho, So the book

1270
01:06:57,360 --> 01:07:00,840
place that dead is not getting anytime soon. Yeah, exactly.

1271
01:07:01,239 --> 01:07:04,480
So that book is called fair play. Whenever I and

1272
01:07:04,519 --> 01:07:07,280
I did read it, and when I recommend it to couples,

1273
01:07:07,400 --> 01:07:09,599
I do give them a huge caveat that. It is

1274
01:07:09,639 --> 01:07:12,639
a very headonormative book. That's why if you look at

1275
01:07:12,639 --> 01:07:14,559
reviews for it, the reviews are kind of all over

1276
01:07:14,599 --> 01:07:16,360
the place, like a lot of one stars as much

1277
01:07:16,400 --> 01:07:21,719
there are five stars, because it's extraordinarily hedonormative. And it's

1278
01:07:21,800 --> 01:07:25,079
also written in a way that I don't know how

1279
01:07:25,119 --> 01:07:29,159
it couldn't be really off putting to men. It's written

1280
01:07:29,199 --> 01:07:32,679
as if every couple is like kind of like this

1281
01:07:32,719 --> 01:07:34,840
one actually, or every couple is sort of like a

1282
01:07:34,880 --> 01:07:38,519
sitcom couple where your husband is just a giant meatball

1283
01:07:39,800 --> 01:07:42,480
that you have to figure out how to trick and

1284
01:07:42,599 --> 01:07:45,920
to help them out around the house. What a dummy

1285
01:07:46,039 --> 01:07:47,639
like that is like? To me? When I read it,

1286
01:07:47,679 --> 01:07:49,960
I was like, I can't imagine asking a male partner

1287
01:07:50,039 --> 01:07:52,559
to read this, I feel like I would be like

1288
01:07:52,599 --> 01:07:54,960
it'd be insulting them. And it's a lot of like

1289
01:07:55,039 --> 01:07:57,159
corny stuff like are you the she felt parent?

1290
01:07:57,199 --> 01:07:57,920
Speaker 4: Are you a she ro?

1291
01:07:58,280 --> 01:08:01,480
Speaker 1: Like a lot of cornball stuff like that. My hope

1292
01:08:01,559 --> 01:08:03,639
is that if she hasn't already, then maybe there's gonna

1293
01:08:03,639 --> 01:08:06,480
be like an updated version that addresses some of this

1294
01:08:06,800 --> 01:08:09,119
the critiques of it. But what I do like about it,

1295
01:08:09,159 --> 01:08:10,880
and I think, Hannah, you've had couples use this book

1296
01:08:10,920 --> 01:08:14,239
too fair, Yes I have. Yeah, her name's Eve something

1297
01:08:14,440 --> 01:08:17,960
I cannot think of her last name. Apologies. And it

1298
01:08:18,039 --> 01:08:22,399
really does a good job though of explaining what mental

1299
01:08:22,439 --> 01:08:26,279
load is and that like specifically, if if no one

1300
01:08:26,319 --> 01:08:28,560
takes anything from this, it's this idea of like CPE,

1301
01:08:29,000 --> 01:08:35,079
which is conception, planning and execution, and that whenever there's

1302
01:08:35,119 --> 01:08:37,439
any sort of task in the house, that usually includes

1303
01:08:37,520 --> 01:08:40,159
CP and E, and that a lot of times when,

1304
01:08:40,359 --> 01:08:44,279
in her examples, your husband will volunteer to take something

1305
01:08:44,319 --> 01:08:47,000
off your shoulders, they actually are usually only volunteering for

1306
01:08:47,039 --> 01:08:49,239
the E part. Like the example she gives in the

1307
01:08:49,279 --> 01:08:51,680
book is if your husband's like, Okay, I get it,

1308
01:08:51,720 --> 01:08:54,199
you're really burnt out. You know what I'll take Cindy

1309
01:08:54,279 --> 01:08:57,359
to soccer practice from here on out. But they're only

1310
01:08:57,640 --> 01:09:01,600
he's only acknowledging an understanding the E part of it.

1311
01:09:01,880 --> 01:09:05,239
He's an understanding the C and the P, which is, uh,

1312
01:09:05,520 --> 01:09:08,039
are is her uniform clean? Does she have snacks? Are

1313
01:09:08,039 --> 01:09:10,359
we on the schedule to bring snacks for practice that day?

1314
01:09:10,439 --> 01:09:11,720
You know? Do we have to make sure like are

1315
01:09:11,720 --> 01:09:14,000
they going right from is she going right from school

1316
01:09:14,239 --> 01:09:16,920
to practice? So we need to make sure that her

1317
01:09:17,000 --> 01:09:19,239
uniform and her snack and every of that stuff is

1318
01:09:19,239 --> 01:09:21,039
either like we're gonna bring it with us when we

1319
01:09:21,079 --> 01:09:22,800
pick her up from school, or that we're gonna give

1320
01:09:22,840 --> 01:09:26,159
it to her, like all the mental stuff that you

1321
01:09:26,199 --> 01:09:28,520
have to think about to make sure the engine's running

1322
01:09:28,520 --> 01:09:33,560
smoothly in the household, and how even though in her examples,

1323
01:09:33,600 --> 01:09:35,840
the male partner might take on that task and then

1324
01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:38,479
feel like I'm doing my job, Like fuck you. If

1325
01:09:38,479 --> 01:09:40,279
you're saying I'm not helping out I'm taking Cindy to

1326
01:09:40,399 --> 01:09:43,720
soccer practice, it's because there might not be an awareness

1327
01:09:43,720 --> 01:09:46,039
of the C and the P that's going on that

1328
01:09:46,079 --> 01:09:50,520
the wife is still taken care of, So you're only

1329
01:09:50,560 --> 01:09:53,720
really actually taking over the easiest part in some ways

1330
01:09:54,439 --> 01:09:57,760
of the task, but thinking that you've taken over the task.

1331
01:09:58,199 --> 01:10:00,399
So when I explain this to a couple, it does

1332
01:10:00,439 --> 01:10:03,319
really help them understand, like, oh, I'm actually not taking

1333
01:10:03,319 --> 01:10:06,079
that task off my partner's plate. I'm taking like a

1334
01:10:06,119 --> 01:10:08,600
third of it, maybe even like twenty percent of it,

1335
01:10:09,359 --> 01:10:12,159
and that's not the part that's making them tired, yep,

1336
01:10:12,319 --> 01:10:14,720
And so I like that part of it. They also

1337
01:10:14,760 --> 01:10:18,760
talk about bare minimum, so like what's the bare minimum

1338
01:10:18,800 --> 01:10:22,680
to like do a task where it's acceptably done, so

1339
01:10:22,920 --> 01:10:24,439
don't get caught up, and like, if it's not done

1340
01:10:24,439 --> 01:10:25,880
the way I like to do it, then I'll just

1341
01:10:25,960 --> 01:10:28,600
do it myself. Like if you're gonna let your partner

1342
01:10:28,640 --> 01:10:30,479
take something over, it's okay if they do it their

1343
01:10:30,479 --> 01:10:32,319
way as long as it's done adequately.

1344
01:10:33,319 --> 01:10:36,680
Speaker 4: So struggle so hard with that, yes, yes.

1345
01:10:36,840 --> 01:10:38,760
Speaker 1: And so basically along on the short of it is

1346
01:10:38,800 --> 01:10:41,800
within these kind of dynamics, you can't really address the

1347
01:10:41,840 --> 01:10:45,960
connection and the loneliness part until this part has been addressed,

1348
01:10:46,560 --> 01:10:52,600
because I can't ask the burdened parent to extend more

1349
01:10:52,600 --> 01:10:55,319
of themselves when they don't literally have more of it available.

1350
01:10:55,600 --> 01:10:57,720
And that also helps to take on some of the

1351
01:10:57,760 --> 01:11:00,600
resentment piece, like because also so I don't want to

1352
01:11:00,640 --> 01:11:02,239
be closer. I don't want to make out with someone

1353
01:11:02,279 --> 01:11:07,000
that I'm resenting, like because they're not out. And so

1354
01:11:07,680 --> 01:11:10,239
if you want your partner to be more into you,

1355
01:11:10,840 --> 01:11:14,079
even form like purely selfish reasons or like purely superficial reasons,

1356
01:11:14,439 --> 01:11:17,960
they have to feel available and they have to want

1357
01:11:18,000 --> 01:11:20,359
to be available to you. So all this stuff kind

1358
01:11:20,359 --> 01:11:22,000
of goes into the pot of like, how do we

1359
01:11:22,079 --> 01:11:24,399
build up that closeness is you have to get these

1360
01:11:24,479 --> 01:11:27,640
barriers out of the way. So if I were to

1361
01:11:27,640 --> 01:11:29,520
work with someone like them, and I have worked with

1362
01:11:29,520 --> 01:11:32,000
people sort of like them, you have to address the

1363
01:11:32,000 --> 01:11:36,359
equity of labor first and the acknowledgment with that, and

1364
01:11:36,399 --> 01:11:38,600
then you can build up more of the relational stuff.

1365
01:11:39,479 --> 01:11:40,680
So that's what I would do with treatment.

1366
01:11:40,720 --> 01:11:42,359
Speaker 3: All right, Hannah, you want to go next to you

1367
01:11:42,359 --> 01:11:42,680
on me too?

1368
01:11:42,840 --> 01:11:44,039
Speaker 5: Sure I'll go next.

1369
01:11:44,720 --> 01:11:47,359
Speaker 2: So when I was thinking about doing treatment, I was

1370
01:11:47,399 --> 01:11:54,199
thinking about the mom and thinking about how being in

1371
01:11:54,239 --> 01:12:00,319
a different place in terms of emotional intelligence, in terms

1372
01:12:00,439 --> 01:12:05,720
of maybe like having self awareness, and also somebody who's

1373
01:12:05,800 --> 01:12:09,880
unhappy in their marriage, And so when I was thinking

1374
01:12:09,920 --> 01:12:12,159
about that, it brought up a couple of different clients

1375
01:12:12,159 --> 01:12:16,880
that I've worked with where a part of helping them

1376
01:12:18,159 --> 01:12:22,920
trust themselves more in a dynamic that doesn't work is

1377
01:12:23,000 --> 01:12:26,359
helping really helping them see their strengths and helping them

1378
01:12:26,520 --> 01:12:29,880
focus more on themselves in terms of getting their own

1379
01:12:29,960 --> 01:12:35,600
needs met instead of relying solely on a partner. Now

1380
01:12:35,640 --> 01:12:39,439
that might sound like a lot, but the idea is

1381
01:12:40,439 --> 01:12:43,279
for me, when I work with somebody, especially especially I

1382
01:12:43,319 --> 01:12:45,560
would say in this instance, where the chances of her

1383
01:12:45,640 --> 01:12:50,159
partner wanting or wanting to do therapy. And again, this

1384
01:12:50,239 --> 01:12:52,159
doesn't even apply to this couple because that was not

1385
01:12:52,239 --> 01:12:55,359
even a possibility at that time, but let's say that

1386
01:12:55,439 --> 01:12:59,359
they were here during this time. Having a partner who

1387
01:12:59,399 --> 01:13:02,079
has no interest in changing and no interest in growing,

1388
01:13:02,159 --> 01:13:05,399
no interest in understanding you in a better way can

1389
01:13:05,439 --> 01:13:08,399
make it really hard to find happiness and joy in

1390
01:13:08,399 --> 01:13:13,399
a relationship can make it really tricky. And sometimes when

1391
01:13:13,560 --> 01:13:16,760
we're in that position, I see the client who is

1392
01:13:16,800 --> 01:13:19,319
having the hardest time. I see the person who's having

1393
01:13:19,319 --> 01:13:22,720
the hardest time in the relationship, and a part of

1394
01:13:22,760 --> 01:13:25,359
what I try to do to help support them is

1395
01:13:25,439 --> 01:13:27,960
helping them so like I would want to help the mom,

1396
01:13:28,359 --> 01:13:30,760
find things that she likes to do, find other women

1397
01:13:30,840 --> 01:13:34,239
to spend time with, find other ways to get her

1398
01:13:34,279 --> 01:13:38,560
needs met for herself so that she can continue to

1399
01:13:38,600 --> 01:13:41,079
build up her confidence in herself, that she can make

1400
01:13:41,119 --> 01:13:46,760
decisions so that she can then press against her husband

1401
01:13:46,920 --> 01:13:50,680
in a way that is appropriate to see if he

1402
01:13:50,760 --> 01:13:53,079
is willing to open her change or grow or whatever.

1403
01:13:53,720 --> 01:13:57,439
And sometimes when I work with people, when I work

1404
01:13:57,479 --> 01:14:03,640
with these other halves of the relationship, helping them strengthen

1405
01:14:03,720 --> 01:14:08,960
their own individuality and their own comfort with themselves can

1406
01:14:09,039 --> 01:14:14,039
really help them have a better understanding of their relationship

1407
01:14:14,439 --> 01:14:18,079
and have a better understanding of what they're not getting.

1408
01:14:18,600 --> 01:14:20,920
And also I help them ask how to ask for it.

1409
01:14:21,239 --> 01:14:23,680
I offer them how to communicate different things with a

1410
01:14:23,680 --> 01:14:26,560
partner who's really rigid or has a really hard time.

1411
01:14:27,119 --> 01:14:30,319
And that's what I would want to do with this mom.

1412
01:14:30,359 --> 01:14:33,720
I would really want to help her have more awareness

1413
01:14:34,199 --> 01:14:38,720
of what she's contributing to the household, also of her

1414
01:14:38,800 --> 01:14:40,720
finding other ways to get her needs met, that she

1415
01:14:40,760 --> 01:14:43,680
can't get mad with her husband who is not interested

1416
01:14:44,159 --> 01:14:46,920
in making any changes or being flexible in any way.

1417
01:14:47,760 --> 01:14:51,720
It doesn't even wonder if she Because you were saying

1418
01:14:51,720 --> 01:14:54,319
like she does seem like she needs help with the

1419
01:14:54,319 --> 01:14:55,640
confidence of communicating.

1420
01:14:55,800 --> 01:14:59,840
Speaker 1: Yes, maybe even how to communicate. I wonder if she

1421
01:15:00,199 --> 01:15:03,720
is just repeating what was modeled for her, but by

1422
01:15:03,760 --> 01:15:06,079
like her mom for example, like all the women in

1423
01:15:06,119 --> 01:15:08,439
her life, where you don't talk to the husband about that.

1424
01:15:09,000 --> 01:15:11,199
So it does make me wonder if she was able

1425
01:15:11,279 --> 01:15:16,600
to communicate more assertively with him. I don't know, maybe

1426
01:15:16,600 --> 01:15:18,279
he would welcome it. It makes me wonder if they've

1427
01:15:18,319 --> 01:15:22,439
ever even tried. Yeah, my guess would be no, And

1428
01:15:22,520 --> 01:15:26,319
so has she given him the opportunity to maybe be

1429
01:15:26,479 --> 01:15:27,720
more interested.

1430
01:15:27,840 --> 01:15:31,119
Speaker 2: Right, But in order for her to be comfortable enough

1431
01:15:31,119 --> 01:15:33,520
to bring that up, she has to feel more confident

1432
01:15:33,560 --> 01:15:34,640
in herself.

1433
01:15:34,199 --> 01:15:37,600
Speaker 1: Which I would imagine back then, they probably didn't encourage women.

1434
01:15:38,640 --> 01:15:42,600
Speaker 2: Oh definitely, that was definitely not this This scenario of

1435
01:15:42,600 --> 01:15:44,920
tribute that I'm giving only works in this setting that

1436
01:15:44,960 --> 01:15:45,800
we're currently in.

1437
01:15:46,159 --> 01:15:47,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, it does not work.

1438
01:15:47,680 --> 01:15:48,039
Speaker 5: Back then.

1439
01:15:48,319 --> 01:15:53,279
Speaker 3: Not till after late World War Two, where women started

1440
01:15:53,319 --> 01:15:56,760
working in the factories did this really start to change.

1441
01:15:57,000 --> 01:15:59,439
So we're sitting a couple years before.

1442
01:15:59,720 --> 01:16:04,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, women were like, holy shit, I can do more.

1443
01:16:03,920 --> 01:16:07,159
Speaker 3: Stuff, right, the suffrage movement had happened, but there was

1444
01:16:07,199 --> 01:16:12,880
some backlash to that, and you don't see another women's

1445
01:16:13,520 --> 01:16:17,479
rights burst until after the Rosie the Riveter face.

1446
01:16:17,840 --> 01:16:20,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, well think about you weren't here for this one,

1447
01:16:20,159 --> 01:16:24,359
but like Fried Green Tomatoes. Yeah, even then in the nineties,

1448
01:16:24,960 --> 01:16:28,399
a big part of Kathy Bates's character is her realizing, oh,

1449
01:16:28,439 --> 01:16:31,600
I can be an individual mm hmm, and I don't

1450
01:16:31,600 --> 01:16:36,399
have to just like be like a stagnant, boored, lonely

1451
01:16:36,600 --> 01:16:37,800
wife and mother.

1452
01:16:38,279 --> 01:16:39,800
Speaker 5: Yep, exactly.

1453
01:16:39,960 --> 01:16:43,680
Speaker 4: And that was very similar the one. I know, I

1454
01:16:43,680 --> 01:16:44,159
watched it.

1455
01:16:44,640 --> 01:16:46,680
Speaker 1: You weren't here for that one. It was it was

1456
01:16:46,720 --> 01:16:47,640
the ladies only.

1457
01:16:47,760 --> 01:16:48,720
Speaker 4: Did I get sick with that one?

1458
01:16:49,079 --> 01:16:49,600
Speaker 1: Probably?

1459
01:16:49,880 --> 01:16:51,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, I watched that.

1460
01:16:51,520 --> 01:16:53,000
Speaker 1: It was our Rachel stand in.

1461
01:16:53,359 --> 01:16:54,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, I know we had Rachel with it.

1462
01:16:55,119 --> 01:16:56,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, you weren't there, brother.

1463
01:16:56,439 --> 01:16:59,239
Speaker 2: But I would say the couple in Fried Green Tomatoes

1464
01:16:59,279 --> 01:17:02,880
this very simil Yeah to the couple that we to

1465
01:17:03,119 --> 01:17:06,560
these parents in this film, very similar where ed in

1466
01:17:06,680 --> 01:17:09,880
that marriage is not interested and is not willing to

1467
01:17:09,920 --> 01:17:13,319
do anything different, and she just has to fulfill her

1468
01:17:13,399 --> 01:17:16,560
own life in her own ways in order to be

1469
01:17:16,640 --> 01:17:19,479
in a comfortable enough place to push against the dynamic

1470
01:17:19,520 --> 01:17:25,359
that she's experiencing. To Wanda Bitches, to Wanda exactly. So again,

1471
01:17:25,439 --> 01:17:27,399
so like that's something that I would do. That's something

1472
01:17:27,439 --> 01:17:29,760
that I would want to do with this mom again

1473
01:17:29,840 --> 01:17:32,479
to help her feel more confident in herself, to help

1474
01:17:32,520 --> 01:17:34,560
her be in a space where she can push back

1475
01:17:34,600 --> 01:17:37,720
against her partner a little bit and say, hey, I

1476
01:17:37,760 --> 01:17:40,640
am also doing all of these other things. Yeah, and

1477
01:17:40,720 --> 01:17:43,640
I need more than you asking me how my day

1478
01:17:43,720 --> 01:17:45,720
is while you're sitting on your ass reading the paper.

1479
01:17:46,159 --> 01:17:48,159
Speaker 1: And she's not fine because she does a lot of

1480
01:17:48,239 --> 01:17:50,720
mumbling under her breath, like specifically when they're doing the

1481
01:17:50,760 --> 01:17:55,000
tree she's like, I'm not colorblind either, So she has

1482
01:17:55,039 --> 01:17:57,720
stuff that she wants to say absolutely.

1483
01:17:57,239 --> 01:17:58,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, because he was wrong. He was trying to say

1484
01:17:58,840 --> 01:18:01,680
that a green or blue light was green.

1485
01:18:02,039 --> 01:18:04,039
Speaker 5: Yeah, he was just wrong.

1486
01:18:04,800 --> 01:18:06,000
Speaker 4: Yep, he was just wrong.

1487
01:18:07,520 --> 01:18:07,960
Speaker 1: All right.

1488
01:18:08,079 --> 01:18:12,520
Speaker 3: Then, So I think I think I would pick the

1489
01:18:12,760 --> 01:18:15,560
Dad as a client of all these because I think

1490
01:18:16,399 --> 01:18:18,399
Dad probably is going to need a space if he's

1491
01:18:18,439 --> 01:18:21,159
going to make any of these changes that we're talking

1492
01:18:21,159 --> 01:18:26,039
about that probably need to be made. Dad probably needs

1493
01:18:26,079 --> 01:18:30,000
some space to talk about what's upsetting to him and

1494
01:18:30,039 --> 01:18:33,119
if he's not getting his needs met and not feeling it.

1495
01:18:33,199 --> 01:18:36,279
Even if he's the cause of it. If he's not

1496
01:18:36,399 --> 01:18:38,840
having a place where he can talk about what it

1497
01:18:38,880 --> 01:18:42,600
feels like to him and have his perspective validated and

1498
01:18:42,640 --> 01:18:44,960
have a space to talk it out, he's not going

1499
01:18:45,039 --> 01:18:48,279
to move. And people miss that all the time. It

1500
01:18:48,279 --> 01:18:51,039
doesn't matter how right or wrong someone is, or how

1501
01:18:51,279 --> 01:18:52,399
correct or incorrect there.

1502
01:18:52,279 --> 01:18:55,079
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter one fucking bets, not

1503
01:18:55,319 --> 01:18:55,960
at all.

1504
01:18:56,399 --> 01:18:59,560
Speaker 3: And the same thing is true in therapy. When you're

1505
01:18:59,600 --> 01:19:02,479
working the client, they need to have space to have

1506
01:19:02,640 --> 01:19:06,760
the feeling they're having. So I think working with Dad

1507
01:19:06,880 --> 01:19:12,520
on really sitting with a supportive method of just letting

1508
01:19:12,560 --> 01:19:15,319
him kind of have a space to talk and to

1509
01:19:15,479 --> 01:19:18,640
complain about what he's feeling and what he's not getting

1510
01:19:18,640 --> 01:19:22,199
met and how the idea of having a lamp with

1511
01:19:22,319 --> 01:19:24,479
knee highs on a leg when the last time he

1512
01:19:24,560 --> 01:19:27,840
saw anything like that out of his wife was ten

1513
01:19:27,920 --> 01:19:32,920
years ago, is probably some feelings he's gonna have Later

1514
01:19:33,439 --> 01:19:35,279
there will be some discussions on why do we think

1515
01:19:35,319 --> 01:19:39,840
that's not happening that need to happen, But you won't

1516
01:19:39,920 --> 01:19:44,079
get there without validating where people are at. And it's

1517
01:19:44,119 --> 01:19:46,199
a thing that I think I have to work on

1518
01:19:46,279 --> 01:19:49,319
with new therapists all the time when I'm supervising them,

1519
01:19:49,319 --> 01:19:51,000
and they get mad at me about sometimes and you

1520
01:19:51,039 --> 01:19:52,760
guys have set in on those meetings where I'll do it,

1521
01:19:52,800 --> 01:19:55,520
but some of those that they're like, all behavior has

1522
01:19:55,520 --> 01:19:55,920
a purpose.

1523
01:19:57,039 --> 01:20:00,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, everyone's trying to get a need met always.

1524
01:20:00,319 --> 01:20:04,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, every behavior, So why is this behavior happening? And

1525
01:20:04,640 --> 01:20:07,319
my newer clinicians get mad at me with that. Sometimes

1526
01:20:07,399 --> 01:20:09,039
they're like, no, he just needs to do this, and

1527
01:20:09,039 --> 01:20:10,319
he needs to get better, and he needs to do

1528
01:20:10,359 --> 01:20:12,439
the things that you two are talking about and recognize

1529
01:20:12,640 --> 01:20:16,279
that his wife and da da, I'm you're yes, doesn't correct.

1530
01:20:16,800 --> 01:20:19,279
But if we don't get past the feelings and the

1531
01:20:19,279 --> 01:20:25,079
behaviors we're seeing present and validate and d prime those,

1532
01:20:25,520 --> 01:20:27,960
we're going to get nowhere.

1533
01:20:27,680 --> 01:20:29,800
Speaker 1: Especially with someone like him, where you can almost think

1534
01:20:29,840 --> 01:20:32,920
of it like we've got to open up the closet door,

1535
01:20:33,359 --> 01:20:37,119
the junk closet. We gotta let everything come out and

1536
01:20:37,199 --> 01:20:40,119
then we can start sorting through it. But you have

1537
01:20:40,199 --> 01:20:42,840
to do that part first, like the letting out and

1538
01:20:42,880 --> 01:20:43,600
the inventory.

1539
01:20:44,680 --> 01:20:47,520
Speaker 3: You're gonna have to do that, and if we're gonna

1540
01:20:47,520 --> 01:20:50,000
see change in his family unit, that is what I

1541
01:20:50,039 --> 01:20:52,079
think would need to happen is for dad to have

1542
01:20:52,159 --> 01:20:53,000
a space where.

1543
01:20:52,880 --> 01:20:53,520
Speaker 4: He can be.

1544
01:20:54,960 --> 01:20:57,479
Speaker 3: Feeling all the things that he's feeling. Somebody's gonna need

1545
01:20:57,520 --> 01:20:59,520
to tell him that, hey, it is pretty fucking hard

1546
01:20:59,520 --> 01:21:02,079
to work. You're probably doing his twelve hour shifts at

1547
01:21:02,079 --> 01:21:06,760
a factory that sucks, and to be busting your ass

1548
01:21:06,760 --> 01:21:09,439
and then coming home, Yeah, I get it, that's hard.

1549
01:21:09,920 --> 01:21:12,239
He's gonna need to have his reality validated because no

1550
01:21:12,279 --> 01:21:15,319
matter what opinions we offer, or what he's not seen

1551
01:21:15,399 --> 01:21:17,359
going on with his wife or his kids or any

1552
01:21:17,359 --> 01:21:20,079
of that is, if we can't acknowledge that his world

1553
01:21:20,119 --> 01:21:22,279
is hard too, we're missing the fucking point.

1554
01:21:22,680 --> 01:21:23,920
Speaker 4: And it is hard.

1555
01:21:24,479 --> 01:21:27,239
Speaker 3: Does that excuse his behavior for not picking up shit

1556
01:21:27,319 --> 01:21:28,760
or not taking care of stuff in the house and

1557
01:21:28,840 --> 01:21:32,279
not recognizing him working twelve hours doesn't mean that his

1558
01:21:32,359 --> 01:21:36,760
wife working eighteen hours a day with these kids is

1559
01:21:36,800 --> 01:21:40,880
somehow equivalent, because it's not. And in his mind, he's

1560
01:21:40,880 --> 01:21:43,000
probably like, I work so hard, I deserve a break,

1561
01:21:43,159 --> 01:21:43,479
which is.

1562
01:21:43,520 --> 01:21:45,880
Speaker 1: Probably at home all day, sitting on the couch watch

1563
01:21:45,960 --> 01:21:48,239
and listening to her stories, and say, watching her stories,

1564
01:21:48,279 --> 01:21:49,359
but it was listening.

1565
01:21:49,000 --> 01:21:49,560
Speaker 4: To her story.

1566
01:21:49,680 --> 01:21:52,560
Speaker 3: Yes, right, these kids are at school while she's for

1567
01:21:52,640 --> 01:21:54,199
part of her day she could be doing other.

1568
01:21:54,079 --> 01:21:55,680
Speaker 4: Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

1569
01:21:55,760 --> 01:21:58,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know we've seen that shit before, all of us.

1570
01:21:58,800 --> 01:22:01,920
Even with all that, you still have to meet people

1571
01:22:02,000 --> 01:22:06,039
where they are wherever that is to be a good therapist,

1572
01:22:06,279 --> 01:22:10,760
and you don't get to have an opinion on that.

1573
01:22:11,119 --> 01:22:14,119
You got to work with the clay you have and

1574
01:22:14,239 --> 01:22:17,600
mold it into where you and the client want it

1575
01:22:17,640 --> 01:22:20,199
to go. But more importantly than where you wanted to go,

1576
01:22:20,239 --> 01:22:21,439
where the client wants to go.

1577
01:22:21,800 --> 01:22:23,680
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, because you also have to have enough of

1578
01:22:23,760 --> 01:22:26,239
like a rapport buy in for when you do have

1579
01:22:26,279 --> 01:22:29,199
to start the challenging phase, which is he is a

1580
01:22:29,199 --> 01:22:31,960
lot he's going to have to unlearn to figure out

1581
01:22:31,960 --> 01:22:35,000
like why he's also not getting what he needs, like

1582
01:22:35,439 --> 01:22:38,800
like the wiliness thing, right, And also he probably would

1583
01:22:38,920 --> 01:22:41,560
need a male therapist with someone who has these like

1584
01:22:41,680 --> 01:22:44,119
strong more traditional views.

1585
01:22:44,439 --> 01:22:44,800
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1586
01:22:44,840 --> 01:22:46,760
Speaker 1: I could see if he saw like a female therapist

1587
01:22:46,960 --> 01:22:49,640
just feeling like we don't get it. Oh yeah, and

1588
01:22:49,680 --> 01:22:52,079
he probably more receptive to a man telling him these

1589
01:22:52,119 --> 01:22:53,920
things or challenging.

1590
01:22:53,560 --> 01:22:57,079
Speaker 3: Him probably and probably would see it as more as

1591
01:22:57,119 --> 01:22:58,960
someone that's likely to understand. I mean I get that

1592
01:22:59,000 --> 01:23:02,119
all the time when I male clients. There aren't as

1593
01:23:02,119 --> 01:23:04,960
many male therapists as there are a female, like by

1594
01:23:05,239 --> 01:23:09,199
a wide margin. I think my grad school classes were

1595
01:23:09,279 --> 01:23:12,920
ninety three percent female. There's not as many male therapists

1596
01:23:12,960 --> 01:23:16,399
out there to offer services. And sometimes men don't want

1597
01:23:16,439 --> 01:23:18,000
to talk to another man and would prefer to talk

1598
01:23:18,000 --> 01:23:21,239
to a woman, and other times it's the opposite. And

1599
01:23:21,439 --> 01:23:25,439
to have that resource available where somebody can talk to

1600
01:23:25,479 --> 01:23:28,399
somebody whoever it is, for whatever reason they feel connected

1601
01:23:29,520 --> 01:23:33,039
is a huge component of rapport building, because yes, that

1602
01:23:33,199 --> 01:23:37,079
challenging phase requires challenging and busting someone out of their

1603
01:23:37,079 --> 01:23:40,039
shit and going, hey, you're kind of on bullshit here,

1604
01:23:40,560 --> 01:23:42,520
and we need to get you off bullshit, but saying

1605
01:23:42,520 --> 01:23:45,960
it in a therapeutically appropriate way, which maybe you have

1606
01:23:46,039 --> 01:23:50,039
the report to tell someone bro, you're on bullshit, and

1607
01:23:50,119 --> 01:23:53,239
maybe it has to be I hear what you're saying,

1608
01:23:53,279 --> 01:23:57,079
and that feeling is very real, but also it sounds

1609
01:23:57,119 --> 01:23:59,600
like your wife might be having a feeling too, and

1610
01:23:59,640 --> 01:24:02,439
perhaps both of your feelings are valid in this case

1611
01:24:02,520 --> 01:24:04,560
instead of one or the other, or.

1612
01:24:04,520 --> 01:24:06,960
Speaker 1: Even just why do you do you have any theories

1613
01:24:07,000 --> 01:24:10,279
about why people in your house don't tell you what's

1614
01:24:10,279 --> 01:24:12,520
going on, why things are kept from you.

1615
01:24:12,920 --> 01:24:16,039
Speaker 4: Right, But I think you know.

1616
01:24:16,119 --> 01:24:18,239
Speaker 3: For me, that's what I would focus on as a

1617
01:24:18,239 --> 01:24:23,760
supportive approach, and then build that into a CBT or

1618
01:24:23,800 --> 01:24:27,199
act based approach, So working on connecting thoughts and behaviors

1619
01:24:27,319 --> 01:24:31,600
or really generating an acceptance for the way things are

1620
01:24:31,720 --> 01:24:34,600
and what can't be changed, but some commitment to making

1621
01:24:34,840 --> 01:24:38,439
serious and significant changes to what can be to get

1622
01:24:38,640 --> 01:24:42,520
unstuck and have more of those moments like he had

1623
01:24:42,560 --> 01:24:46,640
where he loosened up, where he laughed and smiled and

1624
01:24:46,720 --> 01:24:50,760
even almost cried giving Ralphie that red Ryder be begun,

1625
01:24:51,199 --> 01:24:55,600
because nobody knew about that but him. He'd been listening,

1626
01:24:55,800 --> 01:24:59,159
he heard, he knew what Ralphie wanted. He is a

1627
01:24:59,199 --> 01:25:02,680
good dad under there somewhere, but it's going to take

1628
01:25:02,800 --> 01:25:05,720
more than just a present to make that an actual reality,

1629
01:25:05,760 --> 01:25:07,359
and I think that would be my focus with him.

1630
01:25:08,159 --> 01:25:10,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, and also too, I think why it would be

1631
01:25:10,680 --> 01:25:12,760
good for someone like him to have a male therapist

1632
01:25:12,880 --> 01:25:20,560
is having another man model emotional vulnerability and emotional expression.

1633
01:25:21,079 --> 01:25:24,279
Because where I can also throw a guy like him

1634
01:25:24,319 --> 01:25:28,479
a bone, especially of this time, is that he probably

1635
01:25:28,479 --> 01:25:31,800
feels lonely, but doesn't know how to even acknowledge that

1636
01:25:32,359 --> 01:25:35,319
and how to go about it other than like sex

1637
01:25:35,359 --> 01:25:37,520
and stuff like that. You know, with the partner.

1638
01:25:37,720 --> 01:25:40,960
Speaker 3: Man, his therapy is fixing that furnace and swearing at it.

1639
01:25:41,000 --> 01:25:43,199
What do you talk about, sexy, It's fixing the furnace

1640
01:25:43,239 --> 01:25:44,000
and swearing at it.

1641
01:25:45,640 --> 01:25:48,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's where all his feelings are going. So

1642
01:25:48,960 --> 01:25:51,319
it also is good for where I just got off

1643
01:25:51,319 --> 01:25:55,159
of writing a chapter about toxic masculinity and feelings and stuff.

1644
01:25:55,159 --> 01:25:56,680
So this is why I was fresh in my brain.

1645
01:25:57,279 --> 01:26:01,960
But just how like being raised in that additional environment?

1646
01:26:02,439 --> 01:26:04,560
What it really one of the many things that robs

1647
01:26:04,560 --> 01:26:08,520
for men is knowing even what their feelings are and

1648
01:26:08,560 --> 01:26:10,479
how to talk about them. And if you can't talk

1649
01:26:10,520 --> 01:26:13,119
about something, you can't ask for something, you can't if

1650
01:26:13,159 --> 01:26:15,720
you can't name a problem, you ain't gonna solve the problem.

1651
01:26:16,359 --> 01:26:20,000
Speaker 3: Nope, you'll just be in a space where you expect

1652
01:26:20,000 --> 01:26:22,720
people to sing a song about your feats, where they

1653
01:26:22,720 --> 01:26:26,000
talk about all the things that no one does quite

1654
01:26:26,039 --> 01:26:26,359
like you.

1655
01:26:26,800 --> 01:26:29,199
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I guess, which is also in that chapter

1656
01:26:29,239 --> 01:26:33,039
I'm writing AnyWho anything else?

1657
01:26:33,239 --> 01:26:35,479
Speaker 3: Nope, it seems like a good spot to take our

1658
01:26:35,560 --> 01:26:41,079
last break and move into the final thoughts for season seven.

1659
01:26:41,760 --> 01:26:45,079
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I should probably go first, because I'm a hater.

1660
01:26:45,640 --> 01:26:48,119
I freaking hate this movie, y'all. I fregna hate this

1661
01:26:48,199 --> 01:26:52,319
movie is goods and I've watched it about a bajillion

1662
01:26:52,359 --> 01:26:55,079
times because part of growing up in the Midwest is

1663
01:26:55,159 --> 01:26:58,319
being subjected to this movie twenty four hour movie style,

1664
01:26:58,319 --> 01:27:00,399
like Bena was referencing up the top of this episode

1665
01:27:00,560 --> 01:27:03,439
where you can't escape this movie. This movie is inescapable,

1666
01:27:04,319 --> 01:27:07,840
So I know this movie probably backwards and forwards against

1667
01:27:07,920 --> 01:27:11,600
my will. Why don't I like this movie? I find

1668
01:27:11,680 --> 01:27:14,960
the look of it off putting, the very like seventies is,

1669
01:27:15,039 --> 01:27:17,000
even though it's in the early eighties, like kind of

1670
01:27:17,039 --> 01:27:20,039
like how Carrie looks, like how seventies movies kind of

1671
01:27:20,039 --> 01:27:23,760
have this like film meaness to them. I don't like that.

1672
01:27:24,560 --> 01:27:27,720
The sound of this movie. I feel like every one

1673
01:27:27,720 --> 01:27:30,279
of my notes was this movie is grating my nerves

1674
01:27:31,000 --> 01:27:32,880
all the I wanted to put my fingers in my

1675
01:27:32,920 --> 01:27:35,439
ears multiple times in this movie. Every noise that that

1676
01:27:35,520 --> 01:27:38,680
little brother Randy makes makes me feel crazy. So much

1677
01:27:38,680 --> 01:27:40,960
of this movie makes me. I hate that. I hate

1678
01:27:40,960 --> 01:27:43,199
that I can't watch the scene with with him eating

1679
01:27:43,319 --> 01:27:47,079
the fucking food like I can't. I think when he cries,

1680
01:27:47,079 --> 01:27:49,119
I'm annoyed every noise he makes. It makes me feel

1681
01:27:49,159 --> 01:27:51,800
like a kid hater though I'm not obviously because of

1682
01:27:51,840 --> 01:27:56,680
my job. He is such a pain in me, which

1683
01:27:56,680 --> 01:27:57,960
I know he's a child, and he's such a pain

1684
01:27:58,000 --> 01:28:00,439
in the ass. And all so many parts of this movie,

1685
01:28:00,479 --> 01:28:03,279
like even when they go to like when they go

1686
01:28:03,840 --> 01:28:06,960
when they go to Santa's, and like the kids are

1687
01:28:07,000 --> 01:28:09,920
being dragged this souls crying happening, and like this movie

1688
01:28:09,960 --> 01:28:13,199
is very tense, and I don't like its vibes, and

1689
01:28:13,239 --> 01:28:14,920
I feel like I just would just stressed out. I

1690
01:28:14,920 --> 01:28:17,399
got stressed out when he swears outside. I would get

1691
01:28:17,439 --> 01:28:20,600
stressed out with all the trouble he would get into.

1692
01:28:20,800 --> 01:28:25,079
I would get stressed out with the Santa stuff. I

1693
01:28:25,159 --> 01:28:29,640
just everything about this movie makes me cringe. And it

1694
01:28:29,680 --> 01:28:31,439
doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy at all. It

1695
01:28:31,920 --> 01:28:35,119
assaults my senses and I don't like it, and I

1696
01:28:35,159 --> 01:28:37,640
hope I never have to watch it again after this,

1697
01:28:38,119 --> 01:28:39,880
but I agree to watch it for this because I

1698
01:28:39,920 --> 01:28:43,159
do know that as a staple of our culture. Unfortunately,

1699
01:28:44,000 --> 01:28:47,279
and it gives me the ugs. I don't like that lamp.

1700
01:28:47,520 --> 01:28:49,319
I don't like how the dad is with the lamp,

1701
01:28:49,319 --> 01:28:53,039
which is everything about this movie gives me like the heaves,

1702
01:28:53,600 --> 01:28:54,520
and I don't like it.

1703
01:28:55,079 --> 01:28:57,319
Speaker 4: And of opinion.

1704
01:28:58,720 --> 01:29:02,279
Speaker 3: Okay, to be concise, they're Brittany, I.

1705
01:29:02,199 --> 01:29:04,520
Speaker 1: Hate this movie. I hate it.

1706
01:29:06,560 --> 01:29:07,359
Speaker 5: I'll go next.

1707
01:29:07,840 --> 01:29:10,159
Speaker 2: So I've seen this movie a thousand times. Like Brittany

1708
01:29:10,159 --> 01:29:14,840
already stated, I've seen this movie a lot. It's a

1709
01:29:14,880 --> 01:29:18,199
movie that I grew up watching with my family, and

1710
01:29:18,239 --> 01:29:21,239
so in a lot of ways, this movie is just nostalgic.

1711
01:29:21,319 --> 01:29:24,479
For that reason, I don't know that I particularly like

1712
01:29:24,600 --> 01:29:27,680
this movie as much as I've just seen it so

1713
01:29:27,800 --> 01:29:32,319
many times that worn you down. It's worn me down

1714
01:29:32,359 --> 01:29:35,199
in some ways. I do feel a little different after

1715
01:29:35,239 --> 01:29:37,840
watching it as a therapist. I do have to say,

1716
01:29:37,920 --> 01:29:40,600
and feel very angry with the dad. So we'll see

1717
01:29:40,600 --> 01:29:43,680
if that colors my future watches. But to be honest,

1718
01:29:43,680 --> 01:29:45,720
I'm sure I'll watch it once a year like I

1719
01:29:45,840 --> 01:29:46,279
always have.

1720
01:29:46,439 --> 01:29:47,960
Speaker 1: I don't even bring up the tongue part. I hate

1721
01:29:48,000 --> 01:29:49,960
that part too, when his tongue gets stuck the thing

1722
01:29:49,960 --> 01:29:52,840
and they yank it off. Your turn is over, Brittany,

1723
01:29:52,640 --> 01:30:00,119
I don't care. I'll allow you to now speak, Ben, Yeah, go.

1724
01:30:00,079 --> 01:30:00,600
Speaker 4: Ahead, good.

1725
01:30:01,560 --> 01:30:06,119
Speaker 3: I usually love that attitude in my house anyway, the

1726
01:30:06,199 --> 01:30:09,479
king of this castle, in my pretend mind anyway.

1727
01:30:09,960 --> 01:30:11,439
Speaker 4: I don't know.

1728
01:30:11,439 --> 01:30:13,399
Speaker 3: I feel it's probably the first time I ever said

1729
01:30:13,439 --> 01:30:14,439
I feel like neutral.

1730
01:30:15,000 --> 01:30:18,039
Speaker 1: Yeah this movie just like exists in the vapors kind

1731
01:30:18,039 --> 01:30:18,760
of yeah.

1732
01:30:18,840 --> 01:30:19,159
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1733
01:30:19,239 --> 01:30:21,680
Speaker 3: I mean I have seen it a billion times, and

1734
01:30:21,760 --> 01:30:26,279
I think rather than like me being worn down, I'm

1735
01:30:26,840 --> 01:30:29,199
like or by the movie, I'm worn down with it,

1736
01:30:29,319 --> 01:30:33,119
like the same way that in guitar stories in the

1737
01:30:33,199 --> 01:30:36,199
nineties they would literally post, if you play Enter Sandman

1738
01:30:36,800 --> 01:30:39,840
on a guitar, we are throwing you out. Do not

1739
01:30:40,359 --> 01:30:43,960
play that song. And in the seventies they did the

1740
01:30:43,960 --> 01:30:47,399
same thing with Stairway to Heaven, like, do not play

1741
01:30:47,399 --> 01:30:50,640
that song just if you start playing those notes, we

1742
01:30:50,680 --> 01:30:53,039
are throwing out because some everybody would pick up a

1743
01:30:53,079 --> 01:30:56,119
guitar and play that song. And that's what this movie is.

1744
01:30:56,159 --> 01:30:59,399
The thing that's always on. It's always, always always on.

1745
01:30:59,560 --> 01:31:03,960
But though it's nostalgic and it carries in air that

1746
01:31:03,960 --> 01:31:06,319
I think is relevant for us, I don't think it's

1747
01:31:06,359 --> 01:31:09,880
that relevant ongoing. I don't think it's that relevant in

1748
01:31:09,880 --> 01:31:12,199
twenty twenty four. I think in the nineties it was relevant.

1749
01:31:12,199 --> 01:31:14,199
I think in the eighties it was relevant. It's sat

1750
01:31:14,239 --> 01:31:16,840
in a particular niche that this was Americana.

1751
01:31:17,199 --> 01:31:18,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, this maybe is like a time capsule.

1752
01:31:18,880 --> 01:31:23,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, But like other things in time capsules, people

1753
01:31:23,399 --> 01:31:26,119
that didn't put the shit in it don't give a fuck.

1754
01:31:27,039 --> 01:31:28,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think.

1755
01:31:28,119 --> 01:31:30,279
Speaker 3: That's where this is going to get. Like, my daughter

1756
01:31:30,319 --> 01:31:32,159
watched it and kind of laughed at some points, but

1757
01:31:32,199 --> 01:31:33,920
you know what, you know what, the part that she

1758
01:31:34,079 --> 01:31:36,960
really laughed at that she liked the most was we

1759
01:31:37,000 --> 01:31:39,560
didn't even talk about yet. Is the bunny suit.

1760
01:31:40,239 --> 01:31:42,039
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's also something I was gonna bring up

1761
01:31:42,039 --> 01:31:44,319
with the parenting. I don't think parents do that kind

1762
01:31:44,319 --> 01:31:47,439
of stuff anymore, like almost like do these like humiliationy

1763
01:31:47,439 --> 01:31:50,159
things with their kids. Yeah, of like put that on

1764
01:31:50,199 --> 01:31:52,439
because I want to see it, no matter how much

1765
01:31:52,479 --> 01:31:53,239
it bums you out.

1766
01:31:54,600 --> 01:31:56,520
Speaker 4: Not as much. Yeah, she liked that.

1767
01:31:56,720 --> 01:31:58,680
Speaker 3: She thought that was really funny, and she was like,

1768
01:31:58,760 --> 01:32:03,520
oh my god, the way the kid goes through his

1769
01:32:03,640 --> 01:32:06,239
fantasies and like the tension you mentioned of the film

1770
01:32:06,319 --> 01:32:09,000
does make it interesting because you wonder the whole time

1771
01:32:09,079 --> 01:32:10,680
is he going to get the Red Rider be begun.

1772
01:32:10,800 --> 01:32:16,680
Did Mom's like a secret plan to subvert him at

1773
01:32:16,840 --> 01:32:21,640
every possible moment work, and then Dad gives him the gun.

1774
01:32:23,079 --> 01:32:25,600
I think it does create like a heartwarming thing of

1775
01:32:25,640 --> 01:32:27,800
like the one person you thought was not paying attention

1776
01:32:27,880 --> 01:32:29,640
to you really was and gives you the thing you

1777
01:32:29,680 --> 01:32:32,640
really wanted. And I think that tells a Christmas story

1778
01:32:32,680 --> 01:32:34,439
that connects to people, because a lot of people have

1779
01:32:34,479 --> 01:32:37,439
gone through that moment where somebody thinks it's like it'll

1780
01:32:37,479 --> 01:32:40,239
be more meaningful and special to let someone wait it

1781
01:32:40,279 --> 01:32:43,119
out and squat it out and feel anxious they got

1782
01:32:43,640 --> 01:32:46,479
almost everything they wanted except this one thing, and then

1783
01:32:46,560 --> 01:32:50,319
give it to them and then how like life, the

1784
01:32:50,359 --> 01:32:53,079
one thing everybody fucking warned you would happen.

1785
01:32:54,479 --> 01:32:57,199
Speaker 4: Happens happens and they weren't wrong.

1786
01:32:57,399 --> 01:32:59,520
Speaker 3: And I do love that this movie ties that in

1787
01:32:59,560 --> 01:33:03,359
that the wisdom of the adult version of him remembering

1788
01:33:03,399 --> 01:33:06,119
that goes like I did almost shoot my eye out

1789
01:33:06,119 --> 01:33:10,960
with that damn thing within thirty seconds of having it,

1790
01:33:11,600 --> 01:33:13,800
and everyone was right. And I feel like that was

1791
01:33:13,840 --> 01:33:17,399
some like nod to his parents of going like, all right,

1792
01:33:18,800 --> 01:33:21,560
all right, I get it. I never told you so

1793
01:33:21,640 --> 01:33:24,439
I wrote this whole last story to tell you the

1794
01:33:24,479 --> 01:33:26,560
thing that I never told you, that I lied to

1795
01:33:26,560 --> 01:33:28,560
youpot and ice to g head. I mean, I absolutely

1796
01:33:28,560 --> 01:33:32,640
almost shot my eye out. I think I do enjoy

1797
01:33:32,720 --> 01:33:37,199
that because sometimes those are the way children, adult children

1798
01:33:37,239 --> 01:33:39,800
tell their parents that they were right thirty years ago

1799
01:33:40,800 --> 01:33:42,640
is through little stories like this. So the moments like

1800
01:33:42,680 --> 01:33:45,720
that that happened, where you wait something out and then

1801
01:33:45,720 --> 01:33:49,439
finally get it, and then also the way adult children finally,

1802
01:33:49,479 --> 01:33:52,000
eventually some way get around to telling the truth an

1803
01:33:52,000 --> 01:33:52,840
hour and a half later.

1804
01:33:53,359 --> 01:33:53,680
Speaker 1: M hm.

1805
01:33:54,920 --> 01:33:57,640
Speaker 3: So I like it. I don't know that I'll seek

1806
01:33:57,680 --> 01:33:59,439
it out. I don't know that I'll still watch it

1807
01:33:59,479 --> 01:34:01,439
when it's on. If I get a hankering, I'll probably

1808
01:34:01,439 --> 01:34:03,920
watch it. But beyond that, this one might fade the time.

1809
01:34:04,479 --> 01:34:05,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, I could see that.

1810
01:34:06,600 --> 01:34:06,800
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1811
01:34:06,840 --> 01:34:08,800
Speaker 1: I think probably a lot of the engine behind it,

1812
01:34:08,840 --> 01:34:13,560
like you're saying, is people who feel nostalgic to their childhood, right,

1813
01:34:14,319 --> 01:34:17,479
And that's not really anymore, Like people don't watch The

1814
01:34:17,479 --> 01:34:18,720
Little House in the Prayer anymore, you know?

1815
01:34:19,039 --> 01:34:19,399
Speaker 5: Yeah?

1816
01:34:19,479 --> 01:34:19,680
Speaker 3: Right?

1817
01:34:20,479 --> 01:34:22,079
Speaker 4: Unlike Batman, who will be with us forever.

1818
01:34:24,279 --> 01:34:26,000
Speaker 1: I wish she'd shoot his eye with a B B gun.

1819
01:34:26,199 --> 01:34:29,640
Speaker 4: Agreed, he's too smart for that, he's the world's smartest detective.

1820
01:34:29,680 --> 01:34:32,720
Speaker 1: You'd never Yeah, have you seen him propose to women?

1821
01:34:33,760 --> 01:34:34,760
Speaker 5: It's terrible at it.

1822
01:34:35,159 --> 01:34:35,840
Speaker 4: We didn't cover that.

1823
01:34:36,039 --> 01:34:38,119
Speaker 1: Mean he's wearing his version of a rabbit suit.

1824
01:34:39,399 --> 01:34:41,319
Speaker 3: I mean, for the record, doing karate with her out

1825
01:34:41,359 --> 01:34:46,560
in the yard worked, so you know, anyway, horrible. For

1826
01:34:46,640 --> 01:34:49,439
the record, that's probably a Bengo mentioned Batman, and we

1827
01:34:49,479 --> 01:34:53,239
reference the past episode that's probably about Batman, So check

1828
01:34:53,279 --> 01:34:54,600
off those Bengo squares, guys.

1829
01:34:55,399 --> 01:34:56,000
Speaker 4: AnyWho.

1830
01:34:56,399 --> 01:34:58,560
Speaker 3: I think that about wraps our episode here on a

1831
01:34:58,640 --> 01:35:03,119
Christmas story and close out season seven of our show,

1832
01:35:03,159 --> 01:35:07,279
which is crazy to realize we are about to start

1833
01:35:07,319 --> 01:35:12,720
season eight. Yeah, and we've been doing this for eight years,

1834
01:35:13,319 --> 01:35:15,399
and I want to take a second for me to

1835
01:35:15,600 --> 01:35:18,159
thank all of you for listening to us. When we

1836
01:35:18,199 --> 01:35:21,279
started this, we thought we'd get maybe twelve listeners ever,

1837
01:35:21,840 --> 01:35:26,399
and we are over seven hundred and fifty thousand now.

1838
01:35:26,600 --> 01:35:28,239
Speaker 4: It's just unreal.

1839
01:35:28,359 --> 01:35:32,079
Speaker 3: And I'm ecstatic that you guys like listening to this

1840
01:35:32,119 --> 01:35:34,359
show so much that you're sharing it with people, You're

1841
01:35:34,399 --> 01:35:37,399
telling us what you like about it. And look forward

1842
01:35:37,439 --> 01:35:39,800
to seeing you guys in season eight.

1843
01:35:39,880 --> 01:35:40,560
Speaker 4: So thank you all.

1844
01:35:40,920 --> 01:35:43,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, and if you are one of those many listeners

1845
01:35:43,800 --> 01:35:46,600
and you haven't yet left us a rating and review,

1846
01:35:46,960 --> 01:35:49,640
it is the best way for new listeners to find us,

1847
01:35:49,640 --> 01:35:51,960
and it's also the cheapest way for new listeners to

1848
01:35:52,000 --> 01:35:54,199
find us. So if you could leave a rating and

1849
01:35:54,239 --> 01:35:56,880
review wherever you listen to, us would really appreciate it.

1850
01:35:57,159 --> 01:35:59,560
If you would like to sponsor us with a little

1851
01:35:59,560 --> 01:36:02,079
bit of move law, you can do so two different ways.

1852
01:36:02,079 --> 01:36:04,640
You can either buy merch via Tea public or you

1853
01:36:04,640 --> 01:36:07,720
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1854
01:36:07,800 --> 01:36:11,560
Perkson rewards, including if you are fifty dollars or more.

1855
01:36:11,960 --> 01:36:14,720
Patren you can pick the subject of an episode, which

1856
01:36:14,720 --> 01:36:17,479
is really cool. So far we've done the Departed and

1857
01:36:18,159 --> 01:36:22,399
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. As fan requests and

1858
01:36:22,600 --> 01:36:24,600
as always, if you would like to find us, you

1859
01:36:24,640 --> 01:36:30,920
can find us at Instagram, TikTok, threads, Facebook, or do

1860
01:36:30,920 --> 01:36:33,159
I think of the All pop Porn Psychology. You can

1861
01:36:33,199 --> 01:36:37,960
also always email us atop Pornpsychology gmail dot com. Happy holidays, everybody,