Speaker 1: Hey, here I am with Margaret Schwartz in New York,
Speaker 1: The Modern Antiquarian. Thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 1: So I'm really glad to have you on. And I
Speaker 1: watched some of your interviews and I think, didn't I
Speaker 1: see somewhere where you said you became an antique dealer
Speaker 1: in one day?
Speaker 2: Yes, thank you for having me on the show.
Speaker 3: Yes, I became an antique dealer, like purely by accident.
Speaker 3: He had gone to London for a family trip, so
Speaker 3: I had done my semester broad there and I was
Speaker 3: just looking for something different to do. So I reached
Speaker 3: out to the Antiques Diva and they offer these antiques
Speaker 3: tours over Europe. Look, I don't think I wouldn't buy anything,
Speaker 3: but I'm curious about this, if there's any availability. It
Speaker 3: was very close to the trip. I was like, if there's
Speaker 3: any availability, I'd love to do this. My mom is
Speaker 3: interested too, So they made some time for me and
Speaker 3: we went on a one day tour, and again not
Speaker 3: thinking I would buy a single thing, I ended up.
Speaker 3: The first thing that I bought was actually a chandelier
Speaker 3: for myself, a Morano chandelier that had these.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah beautiful.
Speaker 3: It was these beautiful lavender colored glass pieces.
Speaker 2: So I was like, oh, yeah, that's this is great.
Speaker 3: So what they call it once you've made your first
Speaker 3: purchase over there they call it they say you've broken
Speaker 3: your duck, which I have no idea.
Speaker 2: There's a quirky British sayings.
Speaker 3: And after that, yeah, the dam had broken and I
Speaker 3: ended up it was a long day.
Speaker 2: I ended up filling a twenty foot container in a day.
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, Oh wow, you caught the bug quick.
Speaker 1: So I just want to talk the Morano chandelier I
Speaker 1: was in for a while. I was in California and
Speaker 1: the Bay Area, and I was in the original founder
Speaker 1: of Victoria's Secrets home and he had this Morano chandelier,
Speaker 1: like you couldn't believe. It was huge, and I had
Speaker 1: to take that thing down. I was involved in that.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I can't That must have been very
Speaker 1: hard to pack in the container. They're very tricky and
Speaker 1: very fragile. You have to take them all apart.
Speaker 3: Yes, and you do have to be very careful. But
Speaker 3: it was a much smaller one, so it wasn't it
Speaker 3: wasn't terrible. Each individual glass piece did have to be
Speaker 3: taken off and wrapped and all of that, but it
Speaker 3: really could sit in a box, in a couple of boxes,
Speaker 3: the actual frame of the chandelier and the glass. So anyway,
Speaker 3: that one wasn't terrible. I had a lot more pieces
Speaker 3: that were a bit trickier.
Speaker 1: Now, when you first started, you're talking about feeling container.
Speaker 1: Was a lot of it for yourself or did you say, no,
Speaker 1: I'm going to do this for a business.
Speaker 3: So I had a store at the time, and it
Speaker 3: was mostly new production pieces lines like Worlds Away into
Speaker 3: his Company and all of that. And I had always.
Speaker 2: Liked vintage and antique pieces, but I.
Speaker 3: Don't have a degree in that. I never felt comfortable
Speaker 3: with it. But when I was on that trip, I
Speaker 3: was just like, you know what, I'll figure it out.
Speaker 3: I'll just have to figure it out because there's no
Speaker 3: way in leaving the stuff behind. It's way too special,
Speaker 3: way too interesting, and so since and that was and
Speaker 3: it was actually like a week.
Speaker 2: Before my thirtieth birthday. I oh, wow, yeah, so it's again.
Speaker 2: I totally fell into it. But yeah, I put.
Speaker 3: Everything out on the floor, and I will tell you
Speaker 3: that I made every mistake in the book. I still
Speaker 3: do continue to make.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, there's the old saying that antique dealers learned
Speaker 1: by their mistakes, and that was good to ask you
Speaker 1: about that, because you know, when you're beginning, especially when
Speaker 1: you're starting, it's so hard to tell. And people are
Speaker 1: really good at I'm sure I'm making something look old
Speaker 1: that's not. They're really good at that.
Speaker 3: They are, And every now and again, I'll still I'll
Speaker 3: make a mistake. I've transitioned away from furniture into more
Speaker 3: garden antiques, and the age of those are a little
Speaker 3: harder to fake. A Tina in the medal and all
Speaker 3: of that, but yeah, still happens.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I just totally fell in love with it.
Speaker 3: And when I put everything out on the floor, I
Speaker 3: didn't price anything the right way. I foss as much
Speaker 3: as I should have. I just followed the old school
Speaker 3: retail pricing structure, which is it wasn't a true Keystone
Speaker 3: markup right. I didn't just double the price, but I
Speaker 3: did the two and a half like a new Keystone markup,
Speaker 3: and that was a disaster. System might not make any money,
Speaker 3: so I it was just it was so silly. I
Speaker 3: just dove into this, and thank god I had people
Speaker 3: helping me out. So the Antiquesteva, Tom mclarkanes and Gal McCloud.
Speaker 2: I stayed in touch with.
Speaker 3: Them and they were very generous with me, offering advice
Speaker 3: and wisdom and from kind of basic business things down
Speaker 3: to understanding what I was looking at.
Speaker 2: So I really very fortunate.
Speaker 1: I think that's a really good point to bring up,
Speaker 1: because if someone's new and getting into it, I always
Speaker 1: suggest that if you're in an auction or whatever, you
Speaker 1: see someone buy something really interesting that interests you. A
Speaker 1: lot of times people love to share the history and
Speaker 1: why it's what they bought and why they paid what
Speaker 1: they did for it. Sometimes people will say no, like
Speaker 1: they're protective and they want to protect their knowledge or whatever.
Speaker 1: But more often than not, people will be glad to
Speaker 1: share their knowledge, and I think it's a good thing
Speaker 1: I do.
Speaker 3: I am not a proprominent of gatekeeping at all. That's
Speaker 3: just not how I operate. That's just in my life.
Speaker 3: I don't think that's beneficial to anyone. So I am
Speaker 3: willing to share whatever knowledge I have. But I will say,
Speaker 3: in addition to the Anti Siva team, the people who
Speaker 3: have taught me the most are the collectors. Like they're
Speaker 3: so addressed with their knowledge, and I'm so appreciative of that.
Speaker 1: They're so focused in whatever it is they collect, and
Speaker 1: you know, and so something I bring up a number
Speaker 1: of times too is how fakes and reproductions can really
Speaker 1: sour someone that's new, and so it's really good advice
Speaker 1: to talk to someone that seasoned that can tell you
Speaker 1: what to look for. I bring up every once in
Speaker 1: a while. Cast iron mechanical banks, for one, they're so
Speaker 1: good at faking them. You can't really tell. The only
Speaker 1: thing you can do is put them and measure them.
Speaker 1: If they're a little tiny bit smaller than the patent size,
Speaker 1: then is probably okay. But if they're exactly that size,
Speaker 1: cast iron shrinks over time, so if they're exactly that size,
Speaker 1: then you probably got a reproduction. It's so hard to tell.
Speaker 1: They're so good at it all the way.
Speaker 3: And one of the things that people have been frustrated
Speaker 3: with is lead working with lead pieces, because there's so
Speaker 3: many have the stakes in it right, and if you're
Speaker 3: if you're not aware of what led how that should betina,
Speaker 3: it really does put you off because they do these
Speaker 3: faux finishes that look very natural, but it's an alloy
Speaker 3: underneath and somebody, a friend of mine, a dealer friend
Speaker 3: of mine, is she does not focus on garden. But
Speaker 3: she had these fantastic peacocks, these huge peacocks that were
Speaker 3: so beautiful, these garden ornaments, and she said that they
Speaker 3: were and I looked at her and I was like,
Speaker 3: I started to pick it up, and I was like,
Speaker 3: there is absolutely no way that this is let. There's
Speaker 3: just not And I started talking to her about it.
Speaker 3: I was like, look, there's oxidation right here.
Speaker 2: I was like, you can.
Speaker 3: See the alloy, cast iron, whatever it is, right underneath it.
Speaker 3: That doesn't happen, That doesn't happen of the age that
Speaker 3: they're saying it is, which it's not. I was like,
Speaker 3: the crown, the crest on the peacock would be melted right,
Speaker 3: it was fall over on itself. And I was like,
Speaker 3: there are just certain identifiers with lead that you really
Speaker 3: need to be pay attention to. And I was like,
Speaker 3: and not least of which is that this is not
Speaker 3: nearly as heavy as it would be if it were lead. Right,
Speaker 3: It's so heavy for its size. So she was like,
Speaker 3: oh my gosh, thank you for explaining this to me.
Speaker 3: And it was an honest mistake. She didn't know so,
Speaker 3: and again, I make honest mistakes all the time, so
Speaker 3: it's a bit it could be tricky, but I'm glad
Speaker 3: that I am able to share that knowledge with people
Speaker 3: so they know what they're getting into. And they were
Speaker 3: still fabulous, and there were these beautiful, wonderful decorative pieces.
Speaker 2: But she needed that knowledge to understand what.
Speaker 3: The material was so that whoever she sold it to
Speaker 3: understood how to care for them.
Speaker 1: Wow, in northern California, I haven't seen in a lot
Speaker 1: of places, but the antique dealers out there they prize
Speaker 1: what they call rusticated and it's a misuse of the term,
Speaker 1: but it just means something that has oxidation and say
Speaker 1: a gardener and or something like that. It's all rested
Speaker 1: and they say, ooh, it's nice to be rusticated.
Speaker 3: You know, comes from the metal and that's the origin, right,
Speaker 3: that's the problem that is about how metal ages, and
Speaker 3: now it's more broadly used.
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, But so garden furniture is really interesting.
Speaker 1: I had a beautiful set of French garden chairs from
Speaker 1: the late eighteen hundreds that were just absolutely very ornate
Speaker 1: wrought iron and they were had this beautiful green patina
Speaker 1: on I mean it was original, and boy, I tell
Speaker 1: you what, some people there's a lot of demand for them,
Speaker 1: because when I ended up putting them in auction, they
Speaker 1: did really well. Can you tell me what are the
Speaker 1: type of pieces that you really like to deal with
Speaker 1: that excite you.
Speaker 3: So I have really been loving the Four Seasons, the
Speaker 3: different models of the Four Seasons. Oh yes, it's yeah,
Speaker 3: not something that everybody knows and understands, so there isn't
Speaker 3: quite as much education, but there are and they're prolific. Right,
Speaker 3: you can get you know, you can probably get them
Speaker 3: at home depot right now.
Speaker 2: But it's true. I got to be aware, so there's
Speaker 2: education there.
Speaker 3: But I found this fabulous set of terra cotta Four Seasons.
Speaker 3: There were life size, there were taller than I am,
Speaker 3: and so beautifully molded and modeled, and if they had
Speaker 3: shrouds on them right Winter had her head covered. It
Speaker 3: was just this very unique style. So I've been interested
Speaker 3: in finding more like a different variety than there's a classic,
Speaker 3: like the typical neoclassical kind of styles that you see.
Speaker 2: So that's been really fun.
Speaker 3: But like the Arris furniture you're talking about from France,
Speaker 3: late nineteenth century, the aris urture is always a cellar people.
Speaker 3: I always love that they're beautifully made, But as you.
Speaker 2: Were saying before, there are many that are reproduction.
Speaker 3: And have this fake patina on them, which is it's
Speaker 3: easier for us to tell, so I can avoid them
Speaker 3: when I'm buying, but knowing the difference in eras based
Speaker 3: on the feet what those look like.
Speaker 2: So the ARUs is wonderful.
Speaker 3: And then I will tell you My biggest sellers are
Speaker 3: things that kind of keep the lights on.
Speaker 2: Are those little stone garden animals right, the frogs? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: deer and all of that.
Speaker 3: So that's what I sell year round constantly.
Speaker 2: That really that covers my fences.
Speaker 1: Now. Also, I've heard people use the term cast stone,
Speaker 1: which basically yes, cement, yeah, is that something that you use?
Speaker 2: Or it was a cast stone, marble de latte.
Speaker 3: There are different definitions, right, So castone is actually where
Speaker 3: it's a limestone base, so that will be heavier than
Speaker 3: different kind of reconstituted composite stone, so that will be heavier.
Speaker 3: Marble de lata uses a marble base which wasn't used
Speaker 3: in Italy but really had a big resurgence in or
Speaker 3: I say big, but a resurgence in the mid century
Speaker 3: mid twentieth century in England. There were a lot of
Speaker 3: pieces made there, so it's interesting to see these materials
Speaker 3: weave in and out of history. But there are differences.
Speaker 3: The marble de latte castone, there are serious differences.
Speaker 2: And then there's.
Speaker 3: Codestone, which is a totally different material that was created
Speaker 3: I think in the nineteenth century. I think your name
Speaker 3: was eleanor Code, so there's a lot of different things.
Speaker 3: That's what the lions in Travaldor Square are codestone.
Speaker 1: Now do you ever deal with garden fountains?
Speaker 2: I do.
Speaker 3: I'm getting into those now and I prefer the cast
Speaker 3: iron ones.
Speaker 2: I really like those.
Speaker 3: But I found a marble de latte one recently that
Speaker 3: was just so spectacular I couldn't pass it up.
Speaker 2: And I found this.
Speaker 3: Incredible terra cotta fountain which was so beautiful. It has
Speaker 3: this swan motif right the base is the swan, and
Speaker 3: I can't resist to swan motifs. So for just that one,
Speaker 3: and yeah, I'm definitely getting more and more into them.
Speaker 3: But I will say I tend to avoid some of
Speaker 3: the neoclassical styles, like the pouti and any of the
Speaker 3: of that, so I do avoid that, but yeah, that
Speaker 3: there are plenty of other styles for me to be
Speaker 3: interested in.
Speaker 1: So now I have to say, recently I looked on
Speaker 1: Facebook Marketplace and I saw a four season set, a
Speaker 1: really nice one and for seven or ten thousand dollars
Speaker 1: or something.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, they yeah, they are really senses of that
Speaker 3: terra cotta set that I have. Is in my research,
Speaker 3: I have not come across a single other set like
Speaker 3: it in scale and in detail, like the quality of
Speaker 3: everything a condition. Those set of those four seasons are
Speaker 3: very expensive. I think they're the most expensive things I've
Speaker 3: ever had, but but they're.
Speaker 1: Beautiful. Now, speaking of Facebook Marketplace, I wanted to get
Speaker 1: your take on that because I got to tell you
Speaker 1: see the painting behind me, Yes, that is that's a
Speaker 1: circle of Marillo sixteen seventies, the Young Fruit Seller. It's
Speaker 1: a circle of It's after But anyway, that was, and
Speaker 1: that's a hand woven, very early canvas. The frame is bad,
Speaker 1: it's been reframed in a terrible frame. But that was
Speaker 1: on Facebook Marketplace as a print, and it's such a
Speaker 1: it's such a it's almost addictive to get on that.
Speaker 1: For someone like myself, I don't know. Do you ever
Speaker 1: look at that?
Speaker 3: And anytime I do so, I would love to ask
Speaker 3: when did you purchase that on Facebook Marketplace?
Speaker 2: Was this recent or was this five years ago?
Speaker 1: Nope, this was two years ago. It was I live
Speaker 1: in the winters in South Carolina and that was only
Speaker 1: half hour away in Savannah, so I went over and
Speaker 1: picked it up.
Speaker 2: Amazing.
Speaker 3: That is the dream, right that you find these kind
Speaker 3: of spectacular things when somebody doesn't know truly what they
Speaker 3: have or is interested in it. I dru's Facebook Marketplace
Speaker 3: all the time, but I will say the knowledge is
Speaker 3: out there now, right, like people.
Speaker 2: Are more aware of value and.
Speaker 3: Especially regionally, what things are going for. So I was
Speaker 3: looking what was it? I think somebody had a fountain
Speaker 3: that was just so spectacular and it was like fifteen
Speaker 3: thousand dollars on Facebook Marketplace. So people are on and
Speaker 3: she was a professional dealer, right, and people also are
Speaker 3: listing on Facebook marketplace. But even just somebody clearing out
Speaker 3: their house, they had a swan planter listed for I
Speaker 3: think it was three hundre dollars. Like, I can't there's
Speaker 3: not margin in that for me, not enough even if
Speaker 3: I were able to negotiate them down, so it's it
Speaker 3: can be tricky, but every.
Speaker 2: Now and again, you know that's some good vines.
Speaker 3: And I do the pieces in person because sometimes they'll
Speaker 3: say it's been dish or whatever, but it's clearly maybe
Speaker 3: yesterday I thought of things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's always good to look in person. And I
Speaker 1: have to say you're right about that, because I've noticed
Speaker 1: if something's really good, it's instantly gone. Yeah, and there's
Speaker 1: a lot. But when I first started looking a couple
Speaker 1: of years ago, when I bought that piece behind me,
Speaker 1: it was much easier to find something. And now everybody's
Speaker 1: and I've told a lot of my friends in the
Speaker 1: antiques world, hey, you got to check out marketplace. And
Speaker 1: I have a friend of mine, we're joking all the time.
Speaker 1: He had owns a pretty sizable auction gallery and he's saying,
Speaker 1: we have to go to rehab because we're always on
Speaker 1: Facebook marketplace subject. Yeah. But and I looked when I
Speaker 1: was on some I've forgot a Caribbean island this enter
Speaker 1: and I saw I send them a picture of a
Speaker 1: chicken for sale and this is what you get down here.
Speaker 1: But no, it's a fun tool and it's always now
Speaker 1: I want to go back to just it's great to
Speaker 1: get a really good find. I personally, as an appraiser,
Speaker 1: if I go into a place and something is marked
Speaker 1: a price, I'll buy it. But I don't go into
Speaker 1: a place and say, oh that, what do you want
Speaker 1: for that? Over there? They have to have a price
Speaker 1: already for it, because you just have to. It's like
Speaker 1: a code of ethics in a way. You have to
Speaker 1: be carried.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, you're talking about having everything marked. Is
Speaker 2: that or what's you know?
Speaker 1: Yeah, if someone marks a price and I'm a willing buyer,
Speaker 1: I'm just going to buy it. But I'm not going
Speaker 1: to go in and say to someone look at something
Speaker 1: that's worth ten thousand dollars and say to someone, hey,
Speaker 1: I'll give you fifty dollars work, And that's criminal in
Speaker 1: a way for me.
Speaker 2: It was the story.
Speaker 3: I think it was in I think maybe it was
Speaker 3: in North Carotte. I can't remember where it was, but
Speaker 3: there was a teapot there. Do you remember the story
Speaker 3: from the Yeah, it was this.
Speaker 2: Very rare anti caach pot.
Speaker 3: I think in England. Yeah, I think the buyer was
Speaker 3: in England and they went in and this very extremely
Speaker 3: rare American teapot was for was listed at like twenty
Speaker 3: pounds or something, and they offered eighteen something like that,
Speaker 3: something like a start crazy, and then they sold it
Speaker 3: for I think six figures.
Speaker 2: Now I would not do that.
Speaker 3: I would pay the twenty eight pounds and rush on.
Speaker 2: Out of there. Almost. You know, you feel bad for
Speaker 2: that person.
Speaker 3: Do you give them some of the suns that were
Speaker 3: there's I'm sure most people would say no, that's absurd,
Speaker 3: but I think I would feel guilty, just not especially
Speaker 3: if I bid on it right.
Speaker 1: Well, my dad had a story where he went on
Speaker 1: a second generation. He was at a yard sale basically,
Speaker 1: and he saw two beautiful lightship nantucket baskets or ten
Speaker 1: dollars apiece, and so he said to the woman, he said, hey,
Speaker 1: I can put them in one of my auctions and
Speaker 1: do really well. She said, you want to buy him
Speaker 1: or not. So he buys them, and he puts them
Speaker 1: in one of his own auctions and they bring something
Speaker 1: like eight hundred dollars. This is back when that was
Speaker 1: real money. So he goes back to the house with
Speaker 1: a couple hundred dollars to give to the woman and
Speaker 1: she starts screaming and yelling at him, telling him to
Speaker 1: get out.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, where was this? I have to ask?
Speaker 1: Where was in Maine? This was in Maine, southern May Yeah, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: So I don't know what she thought he was trying
Speaker 1: to do when he was bringing back the money.
Speaker 3: But I would be more like your father if that
Speaker 3: were to If I were ever in that situation, I
Speaker 3: think it would feel a sense of obligation to the
Speaker 3: person that I bought it from.
Speaker 1: Hopefully, there are so many stories, aren't there. You hear
Speaker 1: all these stories from people that are collectors. And one
Speaker 1: of the things I think is nice or that we
Speaker 1: may be losing a little bit of and just wanted
Speaker 1: to hear your take on it is I grew up
Speaker 1: long before the internet, and I was at this from
Speaker 1: a very young age, and I was out there and
Speaker 1: the stories that you have with these pieces, that makes
Speaker 1: it all part of the fun. And then you get
Speaker 1: online and it's just click and you get it in
Speaker 1: the mail, and I just I think it loses some
Speaker 1: of that and just wanted your take on. You said
Speaker 1: just a minute ago that you like examining things in person,
Speaker 1: and to me, that's all part of the story and
Speaker 1: part of what you're doing and you're out there, So
Speaker 1: what do you think about online? I know you probably
Speaker 1: sell online. I know you do. I saw you. But
Speaker 1: what do you think as far as you being a collector?
Speaker 1: How that the different?
Speaker 3: Since we're in the industry, You and I want the
Speaker 3: story and when I saw so, I do the Round
Speaker 3: Top Show down in Texas.
Speaker 1: Oh, I love that show. I've been there, yees.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's a fun one. The community down there
Speaker 3: is really great.
Speaker 1: The community they're so nice.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, they're really great. We have a time together.
Speaker 3: I like being able to share the story with people
Speaker 3: down there. They'll sit and they'll listen to me. But
Speaker 3: online people just they don't even read the description a
Speaker 3: lot of the time. Right, how many times have I
Speaker 3: gotten a note saying, oh, this isn't the right size
Speaker 3: or something. I put the description in the description or
Speaker 3: the measurements. There's a whole section called dimensions.
Speaker 2: I don't know that.
Speaker 3: So people just they don't read the description at all.
Speaker 3: So being able to properly tell a story about something
Speaker 3: is really challenging, And especially on the marketplaces and firsted
Speaker 3: shares things like that, using that kind of flowery language
Speaker 3: isn't great. For the algorithm anyway, right, Like they don't
Speaker 3: like that. They just want the straight details at the age,
Speaker 3: the condition, the materials, and the original use. That's like
Speaker 3: my formula, right, that's how people will use it now.
Speaker 3: But that's really those are the key things that I
Speaker 3: put in there.
Speaker 2: And yeah, and the dimensions.
Speaker 3: So it's yeah, some of that is lost, and that
Speaker 3: it does make me sad. I also do feel like
Speaker 3: so much of the knowledge is being lost in general
Speaker 3: from not enough people really re entering into this industry
Speaker 3: or really getting involved in this industry as much as
Speaker 3: they should. I'm somewhat hopeful that may turn around because
Speaker 3: these gen Z kids are just green living is so
Speaker 3: important to them, and so I think they're starting to see, Okay,
Speaker 3: I'd rather save money and buy a pair of chairs
Speaker 3: that I know I'm going to have for a very
Speaker 3: long time than the twenty bucks at a big box store.
Speaker 3: So it's autiously.
Speaker 1: Yes, I am too think. I hear a lot of
Speaker 1: people say it's always in cycles. Maybe there'll be a
Speaker 1: cycle of people getting back into it. I hope so.
Speaker 1: But when I attend to auctions, it's a lot of
Speaker 1: older people, but occasionally I see younger people, and I
Speaker 1: actually do go up and talk with them a lot
Speaker 1: of the time and ask them what sparked your interests
Speaker 1: in this type of thing. So I like the fact
Speaker 1: that they call the ultimate cyclost auctions and things like that,
Speaker 1: and instead of if they are thinking in a green way,
Speaker 1: manufacturing furniture, for one, really affects the environment quite a bit.
Speaker 1: So if you can buy a nice piece, that'll be
Speaker 1: around forever. And I know simplicity. There's a lot of
Speaker 1: people now collecting Danish muttern and things like that that
Speaker 1: are simplistic. And I know that you were dealing in
Speaker 1: the Gustovian antiques, which is really I had a beautiful
Speaker 1: silver chest one time. And did you deal mostly in
Speaker 1: later pieces that were like copies or did you deal
Speaker 1: in the period?
Speaker 3: So I had some period pieces and one of my
Speaker 3: favorite period pieces is the Secretary that inside one of
Speaker 3: the pigeonholes was a letter that was dated. I can't
Speaker 3: quite recall what the day was. I think I think
Speaker 3: it was like eighteen oh seven or something like that.
Speaker 3: How it survived all this time, but it was a
Speaker 3: We had it translated because it wasn't Swedish. We had
Speaker 3: it translated and it was a birthday card. Ah, I know,
Speaker 3: just like that's such an intimate personal connection to this
Speaker 3: piece and that somebody received that and cared for it
Speaker 3: to hold on to it, and it was just really
Speaker 3: it's really wonderful. So by bringing it back to the stories, right,
Speaker 3: being able to communicate that properly on a marketplace listing
Speaker 3: is challenging.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's Lee Keno from the Antique Scroat Show. I
Speaker 1: communicate with him now and then one of the twins
Speaker 1: of the Keno Twins, and we were talking the other
Speaker 1: day recently about how things have the story as they
Speaker 1: go through time, which is so intriguing to me. And
Speaker 1: that's a really good example of that. And if things
Speaker 1: could talk about their whole passing through. We're just guardians
Speaker 1: for these pieces and pass them along.
Speaker 3: I completely agree with that that we're we're just custodians, right,
Speaker 3: We're just we're holding onto these for a little while,
Speaker 3: doing our best to take care of them and hope
Speaker 3: that somebody else loves them as much as we do
Speaker 3: in the future. In my own apartment, in my own home,
Speaker 3: I have a Gastavian almost like a farmhouse table.
Speaker 2: It's very simple.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's inside there's a single drawer, and inside
Speaker 3: the drawer are the family names and the years that
Speaker 3: they had it.
Speaker 1: Oh isn't that nice?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: And DC signatures and had the kind of a handwriting
Speaker 3: evolved over decades in a century.
Speaker 2: So it's really special to me. It's really special now
Speaker 2: if I have that.
Speaker 1: I think it was a king of Sweden visited France
Speaker 1: and then just loved the furniture and came back, And
Speaker 1: that is all through Europe. I spent a lot of
Speaker 1: time in Russia and there's very it looks like you're
Speaker 1: looking at Louis fifteen furniture Louis sixteen and fifteen a
Speaker 1: lot over there. And so the influence really went worldwide,
Speaker 1: like it did with all the American pieces like Chippendale
Speaker 1: and Sheridan and all the different things. But yeah, and
Speaker 1: I know that Canada when Canada had that French influence.
Speaker 1: The original pieces are they're so expensive? Is were those
Speaker 1: pieces that you found and dealt with that were they
Speaker 1: very expensive pieces? To it?
Speaker 3: With period Gustavian pieces can be a bit tricky too,
Speaker 3: because at a certain level of the market, a certain
Speaker 3: kind of price point and quality and all that you
Speaker 3: do need an export license with them, so I try
Speaker 3: to be mindful about that when I'm actually bringing things
Speaker 3: out of Sweden. But it's yeah, it's an interesting story,
Speaker 3: but being inspired from France. And then what I loved
Speaker 3: about it was that they brought it to Sweden and
Speaker 3: used the appropriate materials.
Speaker 2: For that for that age, for that location.
Speaker 3: It turned into more like pine and birch in those
Speaker 3: kinds of woods, and it was a simplified style to
Speaker 3: reflect more of the Swedish sensibility. And instead of having
Speaker 3: mahogany as much mahogany veneer they were painted to bring
Speaker 3: in that extra light understanding that.
Speaker 2: History of it.
Speaker 3: And there are the Stockholm pieces that are very expensive, rare,
Speaker 3: but I've never dealt at that exact level. Right, I'm
Speaker 3: a decorative dealer. I'm not a museum quality dealer. So
Speaker 3: that's that's what they have had to come up against
Speaker 3: as much as other other high level dealers.
Speaker 1: Now, you worked with the Martha Stewart living at one time,
Speaker 1: you did some work on that, what's that like?
Speaker 2: So I worked there for four years.
Speaker 3: It was my first job out of college and it
Speaker 3: was fantastic.
Speaker 2: It was really fantastic.
Speaker 3: It was extremely high pressure and very stressful, and it
Speaker 3: was a very different time when I worked there, So
Speaker 3: it was a very different time.
Speaker 2: But it was a pressure cut there and I but
Speaker 2: I loved it.
Speaker 3: My my managers and the people that I got to
Speaker 3: work with all the time were fantastic. I was working
Speaker 3: on a project once and I spelled wax on my
Speaker 3: shirt because of this project was craft project I was doing.
Speaker 3: I spelled wax my shirt. So I went up to
Speaker 3: editorial and I was like, Hey, can you guys get
Speaker 3: this wax out of my shirt?
Speaker 2: And they're like, gando problem.
Speaker 3: And then an hour later they called me back and
Speaker 3: you got to go off with this and go get
Speaker 3: my clean shirt. So it was there were funny things
Speaker 3: like that you could really it was a very special
Speaker 3: place to work. There were a lot of quirky people
Speaker 3: who were celebrated, really honored and celebrated for their knowledge,
Speaker 3: for their just what their passions were. And there was
Speaker 3: a lot of editorial freedom back then. A lot much anymore,
Speaker 3: which makes me very sad.
Speaker 1: Now you mentioned before antiques for entertaining. Can you go
Speaker 1: into what you meant by that?
Speaker 3: So antiques for entertaining I think are and I do
Speaker 3: look antiques for modern life. That's my big thing is
Speaker 3: antiques for modern life, but antius or just using these
Speaker 3: things every day, like not saving them. And a lot
Speaker 3: of people talk about this now, but it's about bringing
Speaker 3: out these things that I use. My grandmother's china and
Speaker 3: it's very special to me because it was made in
Speaker 3: the town that my grandmother was born in. Yeah, so
Speaker 3: it's very special to me. But there's just no need
Speaker 3: to save these things. And I think people treat these
Speaker 3: antiques and so there's these these very precious that.
Speaker 2: I shouldn't be used every day, but it really should.
Speaker 2: They really should be using an.
Speaker 3: Antique china cabinet or cupboard or something like that like this.
Speaker 2: The storage is fantastic.
Speaker 3: In there, and it's just they're not meant to live
Speaker 3: in a museum. These are pieces that were meant to
Speaker 3: be used every day. And I think of my grandmother
Speaker 3: every day when I use them. Right, she gave me
Speaker 3: her silver and she gave me this. It's Newcastle, Pennsylvania
Speaker 3: is where my grandmother or my grandparents, and they had
Speaker 3: this fabulous factory there Shenango Pottery and Castleton China.
Speaker 2: So those were the two.
Speaker 3: And I could go on for a while because that
Speaker 3: particular company has a really fascinating history with World War
Speaker 3: two and protecting patterns. But that factory really supported the
Speaker 3: town in a significant way.
Speaker 2: So having that close to weight, using it every day,
Speaker 2: trying to.
Speaker 3: Keep like the platinum rim, I do try to be
Speaker 3: careful about that, but whatever, I'm also going to put
Speaker 3: in a dishwasher because I'm a busy person and I
Speaker 3: have a lot of obligations.
Speaker 2: But so it's just don't worry about it.
Speaker 3: Don't mind if it gets little nicks and whatever like,
Speaker 3: That's just we're adding to the story. That's how I
Speaker 3: feel is that, don't worry if you nick a piece
Speaker 3: of furniture or something like. That's just you've left your
Speaker 3: little piece of story on this piece now in that furniture.
Speaker 2: Ight now.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, I got to tell you preaching to
Speaker 1: the choir here because I think that's exactly right how
Speaker 1: I feel exactly that these things were made to be used,
Speaker 1: and that is the problem where we have as collectors
Speaker 1: over the years, shot ourselves in the foot. And I'll
Speaker 1: tell you my opinion on that. When it had to
Speaker 1: be people tucking things in the China cabinet and saying, oh,
Speaker 1: you can't use that. That costs a lot of money.
Speaker 1: So that's worth a lot of money. You can't use that,
Speaker 1: so it loses that family connection of growing up. And
Speaker 1: like the chocolate pot as an example, having hot cocoa
Speaker 1: with my grandmother. And I remember that china set Nortoki,
Speaker 1: I don't even care, it's Nartokia whatever, like it became collectible,
Speaker 1: then stuff away, or you can't sit in that chair
Speaker 1: that windsor chair. The windsor chairs were meant to be
Speaker 1: sad and they last. They'll be around another several hundred years,
Speaker 1: you know, the way they made them in the beginning
Speaker 1: or whatever, so men to be used. I like what
Speaker 1: you said about wearing the marks as part of the story,
Speaker 1: because there's so many things about antiques that you can
Speaker 1: I mentioned lee Kino earlier and he flipped over it
Speaker 1: eighteenth century American table and it said, what are these
Speaker 1: little scratch lines on? And people were coming back with
Speaker 1: all matches or pipe was the clay pipes from the
Speaker 1: early times. Another thing that's really fun to see is
Speaker 1: a lot of early small chairs or youth chairs will
Speaker 1: be flat on one side, and you look at why
Speaker 1: is it flat on one side, the little kid was
Speaker 1: learning how to walk by pushing the chair along the floor.
Speaker 1: So generation after generation they wore the front of it
Speaker 1: flat by holding onto the back legs and pushing it
Speaker 1: along the floor. So yeah, these things all have stories,
Speaker 1: and I think that's it's precious.
Speaker 2: Yes, it really is. It really is very meaningful. My
Speaker 2: parents are not They're not collected.
Speaker 3: They have art that they really love, but as far
Speaker 3: as furniture, that's not really what their focus was on ever.
Speaker 3: But we did have I'm actually at their house right now.
Speaker 3: They are packing up and moving out of this house
Speaker 3: after forty years. So and here, but we did. The
Speaker 3: room behind me was this blue and white room when
Speaker 3: we were growing up, and that was like you did
Speaker 3: not enter that room like you did. It was apt
Speaker 3: for it in and it was just it was very funny.
Speaker 3: But now it's I just don't feel like it's like
Speaker 3: that anymore. I feel like every space is used and
Speaker 3: every space is welcome to children. Right and now there
Speaker 3: are all these indoor outdoor fabrics that people are using.
Speaker 3: But I just I want people to feel free to
Speaker 3: not treat these things look so preciously. Just I really
Speaker 3: want them to be used and to be added, it's
Speaker 3: very important to me.
Speaker 2: I'm very vocal about that.
Speaker 1: It's pretty funny because when I grew up, we had
Speaker 1: what was called the good Room, and you couldn't go
Speaker 1: in the goodroom. It's totally off limits. It's so funny. Yeah,
Speaker 1: to hear someone else.
Speaker 2: Say that, I will say.
Speaker 3: My grandmother, the one that gave me the china that
Speaker 3: I have, which is so pretty. She and my grandfather
Speaker 3: did used to go to auctions and so they collected
Speaker 3: all these things that I do remember as a child's
Speaker 3: being in their home, sitting at this lovely little reproduction
Speaker 3: French secretary. But I just felt so fancy sitting there
Speaker 3: and what I just like having this kind of fun,
Speaker 3: And she had these wonderful memories of me doing that.
Speaker 3: So when she passed away, she left me that desk
Speaker 3: and the desk chair that went with it. It's just, yeah,
Speaker 3: is it a particularly valuable a piece of furniture now?
Speaker 2: But the memories for me are so important.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I live like people to share these stories.
Speaker 1: Right. So what are you seeing in trends these days?
Speaker 1: And what you do?
Speaker 3: It's so hard I really try not to focus on trends.
Speaker 3: I think that's a I don't know, I find it demoralizing, right,
Speaker 3: Like you're supposed to buy what sells a lot of
Speaker 3: people I think that come with that approach, and then
Speaker 3: it's just so not me. I just want to buy
Speaker 3: what I love and I'll find the right people. That's
Speaker 3: very much how I feel. So I evolved from gustav
Speaker 3: Well first, when I told you, when I started, I
Speaker 3: had no point of view at all. It was such
Speaker 3: a mix of that first container. And then as I
Speaker 3: grew it became more about the Gustavian and painted pieces,
Speaker 3: but even beyond that, and think about it, I'm only
Speaker 3: I haven't even been a dealer for twelve years yet.
Speaker 3: But then I grew into the garden antiques, and that
Speaker 3: was just by being over in England in the spring
Speaker 3: and there was this one dealer who had all these
Speaker 3: wonderful swanstone planters and just these adorable little garden ornaments,
Speaker 3: and so I ended up buying those, and the more
Speaker 3: I looked at them, they just brought me a lot
Speaker 3: of joy, think just looking at their face ornaments and
Speaker 3: thinking about being outside and creating these kind of beautiful
Speaker 3: garden spaces for people to go out and enjoy, and
Speaker 3: a lot of that happened during COVID when we were
Speaker 3: all stuck inside and people wanted to bring the outside in,
Speaker 3: or we're finally really using their outdoor spaces. I feel
Speaker 3: like for so long people just took outdoor spaces for granted,
Speaker 3: So it's good to see.
Speaker 2: People doing that.
Speaker 3: But I just had happened to fall in love with
Speaker 3: it not long before that and had a decent amount
Speaker 3: of inventory. That was a good time to be an
Speaker 3: antique garden antiques advantage dealer. But it's I didn't have
Speaker 3: much knowledge about it then, but now I do know
Speaker 3: what we were talking about, like cast Own, Marvel, the
Speaker 3: latte and the different alloys of metals. It's there's a
Speaker 3: lot of fun for me, like finding quirky little details,
Speaker 3: and and I'm constantly learning and making mistakes.
Speaker 1: I've been at this all my life, and I make
Speaker 1: mistakes all the time. So that's you're never going to
Speaker 1: get over that. But I liked that what you said
Speaker 1: by what you love, and I think that's such an
Speaker 1: important message too, because you're living with it. And when
Speaker 1: a lot of people do ask me, they'll say things, Oh,
Speaker 1: what should I invest in? What's trendy, what should it?
Speaker 1: And I said, just buy, just enjoy whatever it is
Speaker 1: and just think of it that way. Don't buy it
Speaker 1: because you think you're going to make some money, and.
Speaker 3: I don't know if that's really going to foster your
Speaker 3: growth in the industry, right if you're just buying what's selling, Like,
Speaker 3: how are you going to stay and interested and invested
Speaker 3: in growing your business if you're not connected to these pieces,
Speaker 3: Like I can't sell.
Speaker 2: Something not that I don't love. How am I just
Speaker 2: how am I going to do that? I just wouldn't
Speaker 2: want to.
Speaker 3: I wouldn't be like this is a lovely you know, like, yeah,
Speaker 3: I have to say and my friends tease me a
Speaker 3: lot because I'm like, oh my gosh, isn't this a
Speaker 3: wonderful piece? And now like you say that about everything,
Speaker 3: I was like, is that everything is wonderful?
Speaker 2: So I completely agree with you for so many reasons.
Speaker 1: Now, so what do you think the future is going
Speaker 1: to be? Do you think it's going to be unfortunately
Speaker 1: more online this trade are Do you think that people
Speaker 1: are going to get back to the basics a little more?
Speaker 1: It's probably anyone's guests, but just what your thoughts are.
Speaker 3: Yeah, online is obviously here to stay and growing at first.
Speaker 3: Its cherish eBay has been around for however many thirty years,
Speaker 3: I don't even know how long, so it's nothing new.
Speaker 3: But really COVID led to a mass adoption of that
Speaker 3: being more comfortable buying online the antiques and everything, whereas
Speaker 3: I feel like before that people just want to see
Speaker 3: every little nook and cranny of an antique, so it's
Speaker 3: not like that anymore. I do hope there is, and
Speaker 3: I do have some kind of optimism around it because
Speaker 3: of the roundtop shows and Brimfield and things like that.
Speaker 3: I feel like the attendance is just growing, so there
Speaker 3: is still an appetite for that. In individual antique shops,
Speaker 3: I don't know. I really hope that there's a revival,
Speaker 3: but I imagine that's very regional.
Speaker 2: I do the collectives.
Speaker 3: I was at a collective in Stanford for a very
Speaker 3: long time, and then I moved back to Manhattan. I
Speaker 3: ended up leaving that, although I still go there and
Speaker 3: love them, and again a wonderful community of people, the
Speaker 3: owners and the sellers there. And I'm in a collective
Speaker 3: in Manhattan now instead, and that's wonderful. So I know
Speaker 3: people still want to go see things in person, and
Speaker 3: I do think it's harder to sell things online, even
Speaker 3: though people are more comfortable with it, because you want
Speaker 3: to hold these objects, you want to feel them. There
Speaker 3: is that emotional connection that you're just drawn to something.
Speaker 3: How are you going to experience that when it's just
Speaker 3: a little picture on a screen.
Speaker 1: During COVID, I remember I reached out too pard me
Speaker 1: several auction halls, and I thought that Wes Cowen had
Speaker 1: from Cowen's Auctions out in Ohio. I thought he had
Speaker 1: the best response. He said, collectors are going to figure
Speaker 1: it out. Collectors have to collect and I thought that
Speaker 1: was such a good phrase, and he was right. And
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, the group shops somehow took off,
Speaker 1: like all these group shops. So I have a friend
Speaker 1: in Texas he says, oh, yeah, I'm super busy now,
Speaker 1: Like really, it's like all but the little small shops.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately a lot of them did go out, but yeah,
Speaker 1: they had the mask requirements. People were wearing masks and
Speaker 1: going into the big group shops and having a ball
Speaker 1: and spending money and yeah, so we learned to adapt
Speaker 1: no matter what. And with that, things like auction Ninja
Speaker 1: came out, A number of things came out during that time,
Speaker 1: and yeah, we we just roll with the punches here.
Speaker 1: But I'm glad that things have been really since I
Speaker 1: started this show in two thousand and nine, things have
Speaker 1: just gone up and down. It's really hard to figure
Speaker 1: I would never want to really try to figure out
Speaker 1: the future myself because it's always I'm always wrong.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you think you figured it out right, Everything changes.
Speaker 3: There's no sense in predicting the future. But I and
Speaker 3: I do think some of the changes are really wonderful. Yes,
Speaker 3: collectors are going to always buy, but we want to
Speaker 3: grow our audience, right, You and I were talking about
Speaker 3: getting the younger audience involved. We want to meet them
Speaker 3: where they're at, and if they're digitally native, I think
Speaker 3: you just.
Speaker 2: Have to be online with them. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I am a big fan of kind of meeting people
Speaker 3: where they're at. I think that's really important to just
Speaker 3: not be intimidating, because it is a very intimidating industry.
Speaker 2: Even for me entering it, I was like, I don't have.
Speaker 3: Any knowledge, who am I to do this that I
Speaker 3: went in blind and just made it work. So it's
Speaker 3: important to just allow people to enter at their own
Speaker 3: level and grow, and over time they'll figure out what
Speaker 3: they're interested in, what kind of whether they're interested in
Speaker 3: a certain style or particular object or material, whatever it
Speaker 3: may be. Allowing them to explore and figure that out
Speaker 3: and grow with that. But I even with the language
Speaker 3: that I use in my descriptions, I try to democratize
Speaker 3: it by saying, I think it's important that we speak
Speaker 3: their language right, meet them where they're at.
Speaker 2: And so what you and I might know as a
Speaker 2: duchess breeze, people aren't going to know that.
Speaker 3: So call it a shatyse lounge, you call it whatever
Speaker 3: it is, Like I will call it a chest of
Speaker 3: drawers addresser, like a comode, even though it's not a como, right,
Speaker 3: I still try and use these words so that people
Speaker 3: will still find my objects. I think that's I think
Speaker 3: that's helpful to people. They're not like, you just don't
Speaker 3: want to come across as snoody. I'm you just don't
Speaker 3: want to come across that way. You want to come
Speaker 3: across as knowledgeable and friendly and accessible.
Speaker 1: That's really great points that you're bringing up here, Really
Speaker 1: that a lot and people can get into this that's
Speaker 1: the misconception for young people that think, oh no, they're
Speaker 1: too expensive whatever. But the market is definitely self adjusted
Speaker 1: for that. Where there were twenty thousand dollar pieces there
Speaker 1: now could be twelve hundred, and it's unfortunate for the
Speaker 1: people that invested that type of money and things, but
Speaker 1: it's down to the point where you can have a
Speaker 1: beautiful piece of furniture that was all handmade. I'm just
Speaker 1: talking furniture, because other things, of course, that you can
Speaker 1: get such a great deal on and live with something
Speaker 1: wonderful that you love a fair price. I would say,
Speaker 1: dip your toe in and see what happens. But to
Speaker 1: take advice from people like my guests and other people
Speaker 1: that have been around a while, and so you don't
Speaker 1: make so many We all make mistakes, but it's always
Speaker 1: better the least amount of mistakes you can make. Anyway,
Speaker 1: it's been really fun. Yeah, it's been really fun to
Speaker 1: talk to you, and I wish you all the luck
Speaker 1: in the future. I think you're doing a wonderful thing
Speaker 1: here and you've been a real pleasure to talk to.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you very much. I really appreciate it. Obviously,
Speaker 3: we're both very passionate about this.
Speaker 1: I appreciate the opportunity absolutely so. You can find links
Speaker 1: down below to Margaret's all her links, her instagram I
Speaker 1: think it is, and website and all that all down
Speaker 1: below in the text. Thank you all right, and until
Speaker 1: next time.
Speaker 3: Two