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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to the nonprofits, and tonight we're going to talk

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<v Speaker 1>about a politician and how he wants to go back.

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<v Speaker 1>When I say back, I mean backwards. But Rob is

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<v Speaker 1>going to fill us in on this, Rob, what do

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<v Speaker 1>you got for us?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Holy wow. Imagine being a lawmaker and trying to

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<v Speaker 2>push a law that sixty nine percent of all Americans

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<v Speaker 2>do not want. This seems futile for your own efforts.

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<v Speaker 2>Josh Josh Shriver wants to outlaw same sex marriage in Michigan.

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<v Speaker 2>He clearly knows who he's going for because he claims

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<v Speaker 2>to be Michigan's most conservative state representative, which is fair.

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<v Speaker 2>I suppose you can pick a camp. But he also

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<v Speaker 2>always adds I'm a white rapper. I don't know why

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<v Speaker 2>he keeps adding that it is irrelevant to his points

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<v Speaker 2>and it only seems to score points. But he's really

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<v Speaker 2>proud that he's a white rapper. This story is from

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<v Speaker 2>Raws story by David Padash the New Civil Rights Movement

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<v Speaker 2>on December third, twenty twenty four.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks Robin. I can only imagine this guy wrapping. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>actually I can't because I actually know what that sounds

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<v Speaker 1>like now. But having said that, Rob, how did this

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<v Speaker 1>staff react to this tweet? I mean, as you mentioned,

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<v Speaker 1>this is something that's not even popular on what we

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<v Speaker 1>would consider traditionally his side of the aisle.

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<v Speaker 2>So what did they do? Yeah, so he's apparently gotten

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<v Speaker 2>into a couple different controversies. And then after this came out,

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<v Speaker 2>most of his staffers and the people that work with him,

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<v Speaker 2>most of them resigned, just straight up and out. And

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<v Speaker 2>when we say sixty nine percent of Americans, we don't

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<v Speaker 2>even mean sixty nine percent of Michiganders my home state.

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<v Speaker 2>It is all Americans do not watch to ban same sex.

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<v Speaker 2>And then when he came out and said this, there

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<v Speaker 2>was then more tweets about persecution. And then because he

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<v Speaker 2>also tweeted a racist conspiracy theory, he said, ooh ooh,

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<v Speaker 2>I be called a racist, which is yes, if you

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<v Speaker 2>do that, you get called that. So it's just it's

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<v Speaker 2>just more of the same. And I am pleased to

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<v Speaker 2>know that at least some people that were working with

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<v Speaker 2>and for him had the decency to resign immediately after.

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<v Speaker 1>I have to admit I was a little surprised that

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<v Speaker 1>they're resigned, considering that there is a segment in the

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<v Speaker 1>United States obviously that not that sixty nine percent, but

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<v Speaker 1>there is a group that that's like red meat to them.

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<v Speaker 1>I think he just overestimated the support that he expected

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<v Speaker 1>to get from that. But Sendy, what do you think

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<v Speaker 1>motivates politicians to spread information like this when they're defending

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<v Speaker 1>really a rather indefensible stance. What do you think their purpose?

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<v Speaker 2>Why do you think he's doing this?

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<v Speaker 3>It's completely eligant to me because first of all, if

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<v Speaker 3>you have to lie constantly to defend your position, then

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<v Speaker 3>your position is from by definition, and every single quote

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<v Speaker 3>from Fear in this article is like every single one.

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<v Speaker 3>But yeah, he's the symbol of a political party that

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<v Speaker 3>became about nothing else but hates I grievance and performance.

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<v Speaker 3>But one of the reasons I think he keeps talking

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<v Speaker 3>about this is he's part of a political party that is,

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<v Speaker 3>as I said, performative, and taking an extreme stance is

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<v Speaker 3>in itself performative, and so the problem is that it

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<v Speaker 3>has consequences. Like when Trump got elected in twenty sixteen,

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<v Speaker 3>I spent hours explaining to people around me in France

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<v Speaker 3>why it was such a bad thing, because they didn't

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<v Speaker 3>take him seriously at the time, and my main argument

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<v Speaker 3>was that his violeness was going to incite other people

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<v Speaker 3>like him to be more vocal, more apologetic about their

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<v Speaker 3>season and bigotry. And that's exactly what happened. We had, well,

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<v Speaker 3>we the US had a racist, homophobic and anti Semitic

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<v Speaker 3>insults and aggressions that skyrocketed after his election. Uh And

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<v Speaker 3>and now he's just got re elected on the same platform.

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<v Speaker 3>So it's going to be all the time worse. But

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<v Speaker 3>it's to me, it's even worse when you think about

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<v Speaker 3>it in terms of rights. It's one thing to oppose

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<v Speaker 3>the right that is being discussed to be given to

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<v Speaker 3>someone else, like the UK right now is discussing a

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<v Speaker 3>lot to provide access to theying with dignity, so you

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<v Speaker 3>can have people who are against it and during this

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<v Speaker 3>period and that's fine, but it's something else entirely to

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<v Speaker 3>stay it on purpose unapologically after it's been in place

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<v Speaker 3>for over a decade.

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<v Speaker 4>Uh.

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<v Speaker 3>The cynicism at play here, to me, is stuggering the

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<v Speaker 3>moral and social and class superiority that he must feel

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<v Speaker 3>in order to say, Okay, I'm going to take this

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<v Speaker 3>right away from you, and for more reason, just because

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<v Speaker 3>I don't like it. That's just to me, is really scary.

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<v Speaker 3>This entitlement and this sense of superiority. Yeah, it's really scary.

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<v Speaker 1>For me, you know. And I agree with you on

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<v Speaker 1>the aspect that it's one thing. And I know that

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<v Speaker 1>you and I from many other conversations you mentioned the

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<v Speaker 1>death with dignity. We're on the same page there. But

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<v Speaker 1>I understand what you're saying that it's one thing for

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<v Speaker 1>people to debate and discuss in an open forum with

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<v Speaker 1>their pros and cons for something that we're talking about

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<v Speaker 1>whether we're going to allow this to happen. But now

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<v Speaker 1>we're ten years over, ten years past this, and we

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<v Speaker 1>should should be needing to have this conversation again. So

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<v Speaker 1>you know, and I look at it that my oldest

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<v Speaker 1>child will be impacted because they would fall under this category.

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<v Speaker 1>And that makes no sense to take people who have

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<v Speaker 1>families and relationships and say, oh, just kidding, we said

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<v Speaker 1>you had this right, but we don't. So switching to YOUAJ,

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<v Speaker 1>how do you think, and I'm going to worry this

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<v Speaker 1>carefully because you and I have talked about this before,

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<v Speaker 1>how do you think the personal religious beliefs that people

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<v Speaker 1>go to church on Sunday? Because a lot of this

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<v Speaker 1>is what this boils down to this guy is promoting

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<v Speaker 1>a religious belief about what he thinks about LGBTQ people.

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<v Speaker 1>How do you think that that, whether it's religious or

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<v Speaker 1>something else, should influence a politician or an employee who

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<v Speaker 1>provides a service in the public. How should how should

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<v Speaker 1>they be able to carry that over into their professional

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<v Speaker 1>lives on Monday morning?

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<v Speaker 4>True? Absolutely no. These personal beliefs are things that you

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<v Speaker 4>practice in private at home. But unfortunately Josh Scool isn't

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<v Speaker 4>going to stop wanting to make gay marriage illegal again.

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<v Speaker 4>He wants to impuse all of his personal beliefs onto

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<v Speaker 4>the public, onto the people that he serves in Michigan.

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<v Speaker 4>Another one of the things that he mentioned is that

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<v Speaker 4>he wants to refuse gender affirming care for transgender people,

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<v Speaker 4>whether there are minors or adults consenting adults. He thinks that,

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<v Speaker 4>for example, not allowing the conscience exception for d MB

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<v Speaker 4>employees to discriminate against trans people in Michigan is going

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<v Speaker 4>to lead to more Christian persecution by the way, the

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<v Speaker 4>conscience class allows an employee a public employee to refuse

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<v Speaker 4>service based on their personal beliefs. For example, a doctor

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<v Speaker 4>in a publicly funded clinic may refuse to perform an

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<v Speaker 4>abortion if it goes against their personal dogma or whatever

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<v Speaker 4>they may believe in. I don't know, I mean speaking

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<v Speaker 4>of reproductive rights. Like he also wants to refuse birth

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<v Speaker 4>control to women. He said that if doctors are worn

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<v Speaker 4>to do no harm, then lawmakers should look into banning

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<v Speaker 4>hormonal birth control, implying that preventing a pregnancy is harming

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<v Speaker 4>a baby, which is you know, a very commonly, highly

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<v Speaker 4>on scientific conservative belief. So I mean to put it simply,

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<v Speaker 4>not like none of these personal beliefs should come into

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<v Speaker 4>his office on Monday.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that we're seeing some of the side effects.

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<v Speaker 1>Cyndia talked about this from about a previous situation where

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<v Speaker 1>we're seeing people in bolden by rhetoric they've heard previously

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<v Speaker 1>to think that I can say even more intolerable things

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<v Speaker 1>and push for even more unacceptable things because it isn't

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<v Speaker 1>just gay marriage that they're concerned in marriage equality. They

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<v Speaker 1>want to roll back, as you mentioned, body autonomy for

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<v Speaker 1>a whole host of issues. But Rob, how do you

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<v Speaker 1>think we should respond to politicians who use because we

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<v Speaker 1>mentioned the persecution if they don't get to discriminate, which

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<v Speaker 1>really means privilege that they're losing. What do you think

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<v Speaker 1>how should we respond to politicians to use fear and

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<v Speaker 1>hatred against marginalized groups. Really, what it sounds like is

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<v Speaker 1>a popularity play. What do you think about that? What

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<v Speaker 1>is our responsibility?

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's society's responsibility for education and fact checking,

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<v Speaker 2>and that this is really a preventative thing. Once it

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<v Speaker 2>gets to this point, it's going to be mostly messed

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<v Speaker 2>up and screwed because I don't even want to push

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<v Speaker 2>back on what you just said at aj just I

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<v Speaker 2>agree that their religious beliefs should not come into the government,

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<v Speaker 2>and yet that is impossible. It is simply impossible because

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<v Speaker 2>people have religious beliefs that inform their worldview and also

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<v Speaker 2>inform their moral system and what they believe is right

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<v Speaker 2>and wrong. So while it would be really nice that

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<v Speaker 2>we could literally compartmentalize these things, it would be wrong

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<v Speaker 2>to ask a person to ask to ask a person

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<v Speaker 2>to act morally when that moral action is against what

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<v Speaker 2>they believe to be moral. The problem is that their

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<v Speaker 2>morals are wrong, and it is impossible to expect a

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<v Speaker 2>person to come into power and then go I'm just

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<v Speaker 2>now going to forget everything I know and the only

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<v Speaker 2>way to deal with this is to have it never

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<v Speaker 2>have gotten to this place in the first place. So

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<v Speaker 2>when these things do happen, I mean, I suppose we

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<v Speaker 2>can demonize them and say, haha, look at the strange

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<v Speaker 2>man who has strange beliefs. That's useful. Sometimes public shaming

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<v Speaker 2>is actually a very strong motivator. But because their persecution complex,

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<v Speaker 2>that's also a strong motivator for their base. So what

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<v Speaker 2>should we do. We should never have a lot. Let

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<v Speaker 2>it gotten here in the first place, And that could

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<v Speaker 2>only really be done with drug models and preventative care,

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<v Speaker 2>which is actually just educating everybody from the outset. It's

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<v Speaker 2>just the best. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 4>No, I completely agree with what you just said, Like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 4>that the problem isn't like the beliefs that are taken in.

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<v Speaker 4>It's just like how did they get there in the

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<v Speaker 4>first place, and how do you get them to not

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<v Speaker 4>go there anymore?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm with you, so, Sandy.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Uh.

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<v Speaker 3>On the topic of compartmentalization, someone I knew was he

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<v Speaker 3>was He used to work in UH radio dating UH

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<v Speaker 3>rocks and and fossil fossils and things like that, and

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<v Speaker 3>he was working with U with the younger younger creationists

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<v Speaker 3>so it seems to be a little bit impossible, but

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<v Speaker 3>actually the guy managed to compartmentalize the two things completely.

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<v Speaker 3>Like during the day he was dating uh rocks and

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<v Speaker 3>fossils and he said, yeah, they're there, are like two

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<v Speaker 3>hundred thousand years years old, and then went home and

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<v Speaker 3>taught his kid that the earth was six thousand years old.

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<v Speaker 3>So it's possible to have those extreme views and still

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<v Speaker 3>managed to avoid cognitive dissonance. I also, so I live

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<v Speaker 3>in Belgium and not many people are religious. I have

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<v Speaker 3>discovered resetting that I had a few ones in my

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<v Speaker 3>soccer team and it doesn't influence their view because they're

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<v Speaker 3>not thought that their religion is the source of morality.

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<v Speaker 3>So religion is more like, I don't know, cultural thing

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<v Speaker 3>more than really a very strong belief in an entity.

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<v Speaker 3>All that exists too, but it's not as important. So

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<v Speaker 3>I think it's still possible to to have religious beliefs

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<v Speaker 3>and not have them influence your view of the world.

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<v Speaker 3>But that means the religious belief itself has to be

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<v Speaker 3>taught in a very specific way in order to avoid

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<v Speaker 3>what we see in the US or any any Muslim country,

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<v Speaker 3>or any very very Catholic country like Nigeria or some

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<v Speaker 3>South American countries. So yeah, it's it's it's it's a

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<v Speaker 3>complicated topic and we should avoidy generalizations.

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<v Speaker 1>A j you had mentioned limiting reproductive right, I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>and this concept of going backwards, because that's precisely what

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<v Speaker 1>he's doing, is saying, you know, not just let's slow

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<v Speaker 1>things down, but let's do one eighty in full speed

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<v Speaker 1>the opposite direction. What do you think the long term

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<v Speaker 1>consequences of this type of action people throwing this type

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<v Speaker 1>of rhetoric out there, What do you think this has

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<v Speaker 1>to do? It can impact the legal landscape and societal norms.

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<v Speaker 4>I think, you know, there's a lot of steak because

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<v Speaker 4>in the case of Criber, as if trying to you know,

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<v Speaker 4>take things back in time by trying to make the

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<v Speaker 4>LGBTQ community disappear, dominating women's bodies or trying to take

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<v Speaker 4>away by the autonomy wasn't enough. He also has voted

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<v Speaker 4>against certain bills that will prevent racial discriminations or you know,

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<v Speaker 4>he's posted racist conspiracy theorist in his professional social media,

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<v Speaker 4>not just his private personal page. And according to Josh,

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<v Speaker 4>just like there is this anti Christian agenda, there's also

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<v Speaker 4>an anti white agenda. He said that there is a

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<v Speaker 4>racist plan to replace whites with non whites through illegally

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<v Speaker 4>equation too irreversibly America's demographics, voting citizens, and national identity

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<v Speaker 4>to keep power in the hands of the godless regime.

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<v Speaker 4>Excuse me, sir, but is that not what the conservative

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<v Speaker 4>white Christian nationalists have been doing like two people for

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<v Speaker 4>you know, generations to like people of color, minorities. To me,

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<v Speaker 4>his set of beliefs are just generally toxic, and that

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<v Speaker 4>is what we often discuss regarding people that make decisions

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<v Speaker 4>for entire populations based on their individual personal belief Like

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<v Speaker 4>Grab mentioned earlier, you can't take away people's religious beliefs

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<v Speaker 4>from who they are, from how they see the world,

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<v Speaker 4>and they can often not separate that. But in the

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<v Speaker 4>case of a representative, this is somebody that is meant

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<v Speaker 4>to represent entire populations, like he's supposed to say, okay,

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<v Speaker 4>to put myself aside and represent these people, and you know,

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<v Speaker 4>listening to what these people want. And you know, again,

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<v Speaker 4>Rob says, sixty nine percent of Americans or Michigan and

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<v Speaker 4>Michigan nurse do not want to do away with gay marriage.

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<v Speaker 4>So listen to that right, Like he should be listening

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<v Speaker 4>to that rather than be listening to his own personal

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<v Speaker 4>wishness and desires and dogmas. So to me, like, I

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<v Speaker 4>don't know, she's the bullshit that he's feeling just shows

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<v Speaker 4>me why why it's a problem to let his personal

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<v Speaker 4>beliefs seep into the decision making that he's supposed to

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<v Speaker 4>be making for people.

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<v Speaker 2>I want to I want to jump in and say

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<v Speaker 2>I think the fact that the word representative was used

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<v Speaker 2>is perfect because he is a representative and he should

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<v Speaker 2>represent clearly. I'm an atheist. And when I first watched

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<v Speaker 2>the movie First Contact and they're trying to figure out

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<v Speaker 2>which person to go bet the ambassador for the human

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<v Speaker 2>race with aliens, and then the the lead characters like

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<v Speaker 2>I should go in the main and in one of

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<v Speaker 2>like the generals is like eighty nine percent of all

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<v Speaker 2>of the population of the planet believes in some kind

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<v Speaker 2>of God. Why do you think you should go? And

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<v Speaker 2>even as an atheist, like, oh shit, that's a compelling point.

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<v Speaker 2>He should be representative.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, this great replacement theory that ag was talking about,

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<v Speaker 3>this idea that you know, white are slowly replaced we

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<v Speaker 3>So it originated from from a French guy, sorry about that.

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<v Speaker 3>And to me, it's it's one of the most stupid

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<v Speaker 3>in hypocritical argument because what they're saying is that non

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<v Speaker 3>white people have more kids than white people, and therefore

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<v Speaker 3>we need to do something about it. I mean, and

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<v Speaker 3>the obvious responses, well, why don't white make more kids?

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<v Speaker 3>Why don't you make more kids? And usually, and especially

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<v Speaker 3>in Europe, those people only have one or two kids.

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<v Speaker 3>And so when you start going into this discussion is

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<v Speaker 3>why don't you make more kids? Uh, well, why should

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<v Speaker 3>I be? Well, you want white people to be more represented,

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<v Speaker 3>so make more kids. And and they don't see the

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<v Speaker 3>stupidity of their position because they see a problem, they

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<v Speaker 3>have the solution, but they don't want to implement it,

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<v Speaker 3>and that that to me is just just stupid because

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<v Speaker 3>as soon as you try to answer that question why

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<v Speaker 3>don't you want more kids, then you start talking about

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<v Speaker 3>the systemic issues of the society, like the cost of living,

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<v Speaker 3>like the cost of healthcare in the US, like all this,

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<v Speaker 3>all this, all this, and and all those problems they

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<v Speaker 3>don't want to acknowledge because they don't want to solve

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<v Speaker 3>them because they hit mostly the other people compared to

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<v Speaker 3>them so yeah, this, I don't understand how this arguments

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<v Speaker 3>this position, that this great replacement theory is so popular

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<v Speaker 3>in the right, right wing media and right wing people,

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<v Speaker 3>because it's stupid to me.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, you have to understand, and this is something I

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<v Speaker 1>was going to say when Aja first brought this up

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<v Speaker 1>before I was rude. Not is that this is something

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<v Speaker 1>that we talked about over thirty years ago in very

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<v Speaker 1>extreme right wing like White Air and Resistance and other

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<v Speaker 1>people who I was involved with at the time. This

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<v Speaker 1>was something that was commonplace then, but they wouldn't say

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<v Speaker 1>that in public. And that's what unsettles me is that

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<v Speaker 1>now I'm saying elected officials propagating something that open racists

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<v Speaker 1>used to say behind closed doors, and that is very concerning.

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<v Speaker 1>But one quick thing I wanted to run through because

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<v Speaker 1>I know where I want a quick answer on this,

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<v Speaker 1>because this is just what you view about it. Because

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<v Speaker 1>we're getting close to the end of this. We've talked

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<v Speaker 1>enough about these kind of people, you rob, do you

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<v Speaker 1>do you think this is a performance as some we

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<v Speaker 1>mentioned before, performative politics. Already think this guy really believes

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<v Speaker 1>some of these things that he's saying.

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<v Speaker 2>Not mutually exclusive and I'm sure that it's actually both.

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<v Speaker 2>For the existence of all politics, the person who wins

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<v Speaker 2>is the person who's most popular, or I guess is

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<v Speaker 2>the person who kills everybody else and takes a monarchy

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<v Speaker 2>and then nobody else decides to kill them back. But generally,

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<v Speaker 2>if you're the most popular, you're going to win, and

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<v Speaker 2>that requires spectacle. It just does. That's out like even

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of the ancient Roman stuff and why they'd

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<v Speaker 2>have large parades about their and things like that, and

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<v Speaker 2>they would give gifts to the commoners. So of course

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<v Speaker 2>it's a theater. Of course it's performance. He knows he

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<v Speaker 2>knows the people he's trying to get, and he's not

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<v Speaker 2>afraid about alienating the ones he doesn't. That doesn't mean

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<v Speaker 2>that he's gonna then have a majority, but the majority

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't matter as long as there's enough people around that

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<v Speaker 2>are similar enough to him. So he's trying to make

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<v Speaker 2>himself deeply popular with the people that he wants, and

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<v Speaker 2>he's doing it through performance. Absolutely