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That's Chumbuck 22 00:00:56.920 --> 00:00:57.960 casino dot com. 23 00:00:57.799 --> 00:01:00.039 No pusses every where, every I lost e terms it 24 00:01:00.119 --> 00:01:02.039 is a lad. 25 00:01:11.319 --> 00:01:14.719 You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking 26 00:01:14.840 --> 00:01:17.840 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 27 00:01:17.959 --> 00:01:25.519 written about them Gaesy, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. Every week, 28 00:01:25.680 --> 00:01:29.519 another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous 29 00:01:29.599 --> 00:01:33.519 killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 30 00:01:33.959 --> 00:01:48.359 journalist and author Dan Zupansky, Good Evening. As a child, 31 00:01:48.480 --> 00:01:51.159 I was known as Jessica Pelly. When I was nine, 32 00:01:51.200 --> 00:01:53.239 I went to a sleepover at a friend's house for 33 00:01:53.319 --> 00:01:56.840 the weekend. While I was away, my entire family was murdered. 34 00:01:57.519 --> 00:02:00.359 I would spend the next thirty years fighting, crawl, and 35 00:02:00.480 --> 00:02:03.640 clywing my way through the darkness. This wasn't just a 36 00:02:03.799 --> 00:02:07.239 national news headline, a cold case, or a true crime show. 37 00:02:07.840 --> 00:02:11.080 It was my family and my life. I was the 38 00:02:11.120 --> 00:02:14.159 broken little girl left behind To tell this story, I 39 00:02:14.280 --> 00:02:17.960 am now Jesse in the pages of this unapologetic memoir 40 00:02:18.159 --> 00:02:21.280 set Free. The book that we're featuring this evening is 41 00:02:21.719 --> 00:02:25.599 I Am Jessica, A survivor's powerful story of healing and hope. 42 00:02:26.159 --> 00:02:30.039 With my special guest, Jesse Toroanjo and author Jamie Collins. 43 00:02:30.479 --> 00:02:32.439 Welcome to the program, and thank you very much for 44 00:02:32.479 --> 00:02:39.280 a greened Iness interview. Jamie Collins, thank. 45 00:02:39.159 --> 00:02:39.719 You so much. 46 00:02:39.879 --> 00:02:40.159 Thank you. 47 00:02:41.199 --> 00:02:44.199 Before we start, and not to get ahead of ourselves 48 00:02:44.240 --> 00:02:45.879 at all, because we're going to have we take this. 49 00:02:46.039 --> 00:02:48.520 We want to take this audience right back to nineteen 50 00:02:48.560 --> 00:02:52.159 eighty nine and well before that, to talk about your family. Jesse, 51 00:02:53.639 --> 00:02:59.680 tell us how you Jamie and Jesse are related, your 52 00:02:59.759 --> 00:03:02.319 cousin and so let's get that how you how are 53 00:03:02.360 --> 00:03:02.919 you related? 54 00:03:05.639 --> 00:03:06.800 We are well and. 55 00:03:09.680 --> 00:03:13.479 This is Jamie. We're cousins and my mom Marla is 56 00:03:13.560 --> 00:03:16.400 the sister of her dad Ed who they were siblings. 57 00:03:17.759 --> 00:03:21.919 Okay, great, now, Jesse, let's go back to when you 58 00:03:22.039 --> 00:03:27.439 were Jessica and talk about your dad Ed and your 59 00:03:27.719 --> 00:03:30.919 your mom Dawn. And take us back to before you 60 00:03:31.080 --> 00:03:36.039 got moved to Indiana. Tell us about the your family background. 61 00:03:36.199 --> 00:03:36.960 Take us way back. 62 00:03:38.560 --> 00:03:43.000 Well, we moved around a lot. I was born in Adrian, Michigan. 63 00:03:43.360 --> 00:03:45.199 And then my sister Jane I was born in Blosfield 64 00:03:45.360 --> 00:03:47.840 and my sister Jolie even we moved to Toledo, Ohio, 65 00:03:47.879 --> 00:03:51.280 and that's where she was born and that's where we 66 00:03:51.400 --> 00:03:55.319 lived until I was five. My dad had a lot 67 00:03:55.319 --> 00:03:57.919 of different jobs. I mean, I couldn't really tell you 68 00:03:58.000 --> 00:04:01.280 exactly what they were because I was so young, but 69 00:04:01.919 --> 00:04:05.240 I do remember I'm working on cars, hunting and fishing 70 00:04:05.319 --> 00:04:11.360 with him, stuff like that. So you know, I remember 71 00:04:11.439 --> 00:04:12.919 all that and I was happy at that point. 72 00:04:14.280 --> 00:04:17.000 Now, your sisters are very close in age, you said, Janelle, 73 00:04:17.279 --> 00:04:21.360 and pardon me, or their sister and tell us their 74 00:04:21.680 --> 00:04:23.120 ages in relation to yours. 75 00:04:24.560 --> 00:04:29.199 Well, my sister Jane was a year younger than me, 76 00:04:29.600 --> 00:04:32.240 just over a year, and then our sister Joline was 77 00:04:32.319 --> 00:04:33.319 three years younger than me. 78 00:04:34.920 --> 00:04:39.839 Right now, what happens to your dad? You don't know 79 00:04:39.959 --> 00:04:43.839 really the circumstances, But I mean, what happens to your 80 00:04:43.879 --> 00:04:44.879 father at a young age. 81 00:04:46.560 --> 00:04:50.000 He died of carbon monoxide. They said he was working 82 00:04:50.079 --> 00:04:53.439 on a truck, and I don't really know all the details. 83 00:04:53.720 --> 00:04:57.959 So you know, we went to church and came home 84 00:04:58.079 --> 00:04:59.079 and he was gone. 85 00:05:00.839 --> 00:05:04.639 Right, So where were you living at that time? And 86 00:05:05.279 --> 00:05:07.639 what happens with your mother? And how does she meet 87 00:05:09.040 --> 00:05:09.920 a man named Bob? 88 00:05:11.879 --> 00:05:14.839 We lived in Tuledo, Ohio at that point still, and 89 00:05:15.000 --> 00:05:17.439 I'm not really sure how she met Bob. I do 90 00:05:17.519 --> 00:05:20.480 believe it was through one of his cousins that lived 91 00:05:20.720 --> 00:05:23.879 in that vicinity. But I was so young, I didn't 92 00:05:23.879 --> 00:05:26.120 really get to see how they met or anything. 93 00:05:29.199 --> 00:05:32.639 Now you're you say, you're you're right at you're six 94 00:05:32.800 --> 00:05:37.759 years old when your mom has met Bob and they 95 00:05:37.800 --> 00:05:41.319 talk about moving to Florida. What's the reason for the 96 00:05:41.439 --> 00:05:43.600 move to Florida, And, as you write in the book, well, 97 00:05:43.639 --> 00:05:46.759 what were your feelings about Bob and the move and 98 00:05:47.439 --> 00:05:51.879 your dad dying? Tell us about all those feelings at 99 00:05:51.920 --> 00:05:52.560 that young age. 100 00:05:53.959 --> 00:05:58.160 Well, I was very angry, you know that I was 101 00:05:58.240 --> 00:06:00.759 gonna try to have to have new dad. I didn't 102 00:06:00.759 --> 00:06:04.519 want a new dad. I wanted my dad. Being six 103 00:06:04.680 --> 00:06:08.160 years old, you don't really have the comprehension, you know, 104 00:06:09.319 --> 00:06:11.959 about death or anything. So for me, it was just 105 00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:13.959 a whirlwind. You know, my dad was gone and then 106 00:06:13.959 --> 00:06:16.560 all of a sudden, this this new guy is here, 107 00:06:16.879 --> 00:06:19.279 and I'm supposed to look at him as my dad. 108 00:06:20.360 --> 00:06:22.959 So when we had to move to Florida because that's 109 00:06:23.000 --> 00:06:26.639 where Bob's house was, I'm not sure why we chose 110 00:06:26.720 --> 00:06:29.519 to go there, but that's where we went. So but yeah, 111 00:06:29.560 --> 00:06:30.680 I was very angry. 112 00:06:33.360 --> 00:06:37.439 And what was what was Bob's occupation took you to Florida. 113 00:06:38.160 --> 00:06:41.639 At that point, I don't really know. I'm not sure 114 00:06:41.759 --> 00:06:42.720 exactly what he did. 115 00:06:45.160 --> 00:06:52.160 Okay, now let's talk about the the move to Indiana. 116 00:06:53.759 --> 00:06:56.319 You were, you were in Florida, you're staying in Florida. 117 00:06:57.279 --> 00:07:02.160 But with that as well, Bob has children, So tell 118 00:07:02.240 --> 00:07:04.639 us about that meeting and what are their names and 119 00:07:05.160 --> 00:07:08.360 what was their ages in relation to you and. 120 00:07:08.399 --> 00:07:12.959 Your There was Jeff, who was his oldest and he's 121 00:07:13.000 --> 00:07:15.839 eight years older than me. And then there was Jackie 122 00:07:16.360 --> 00:07:21.360 and I think she's four years older than me. But 123 00:07:22.160 --> 00:07:24.800 you know, Jackie, I just you know, she was cordial. 124 00:07:25.079 --> 00:07:27.360 You know, we didn't really like hang out, hangout or anything. 125 00:07:27.480 --> 00:07:32.360 But Jeff didn't like me right off the bat. You know, 126 00:07:33.000 --> 00:07:34.879 he had just they had just lost their mom too, 127 00:07:35.199 --> 00:07:37.839 so you know, I think it was just a bunch 128 00:07:37.879 --> 00:07:42.639 of anger when we all had to get together. There 129 00:07:42.680 --> 00:07:46.519 were a couple of instances where you know, I was 130 00:07:46.639 --> 00:07:50.360 terrified he We went camping in the backyard, me, Jackie 131 00:07:50.720 --> 00:07:53.319 and then my two sisters, and you know, this guy 132 00:07:53.439 --> 00:07:56.399 came in the tent and pulled me out and you know, 133 00:07:56.519 --> 00:07:58.319 threatened to throw me in the pool that we had 134 00:07:59.160 --> 00:08:01.000 and then we went and said and I was, I 135 00:08:01.079 --> 00:08:03.920 was terrified, like I said, and you know, he put 136 00:08:03.959 --> 00:08:05.639 me on the counter and then took off the ski 137 00:08:05.759 --> 00:08:10.439 mask and it was jess Wow. So yeah, I mean, 138 00:08:10.600 --> 00:08:11.879 I don't know if he just thought he was being 139 00:08:11.959 --> 00:08:14.560 funny or if he was really trying to terrify me, 140 00:08:14.720 --> 00:08:18.040 but you know, I was, you know. And then another instance, 141 00:08:18.160 --> 00:08:20.000 I was in the tub and he pretended they're all 142 00:08:20.040 --> 00:08:22.759 blow dryer in there with me. So it was just 143 00:08:22.800 --> 00:08:27.120 stuff like that, where to me it wasn't normal prankster 144 00:08:27.240 --> 00:08:30.000 stuff it you know, I was very scared. 145 00:08:31.800 --> 00:08:39.120 Right now, Jamie, you're the related to Jesse. Again, without 146 00:08:40.039 --> 00:08:43.919 jumping ahead or giving anything away, what are you doing 147 00:08:44.759 --> 00:08:47.440 around this time? I mean, what is your age difference 148 00:08:47.559 --> 00:08:53.519 between Jesse and what is your what is your career path, 149 00:08:53.759 --> 00:08:57.039 what are you moving towards? What are you doing around 150 00:08:57.840 --> 00:09:01.039 at the same time in parallel with your cousin. 151 00:09:02.759 --> 00:09:07.799 Yeah, I am three years older than Jesse Jessica at 152 00:09:07.840 --> 00:09:10.320 the time, and at that point, I mean, we were 153 00:09:10.360 --> 00:09:12.799 both just young kids, and so my dad was in 154 00:09:12.879 --> 00:09:15.120 the military. He was a helicopter pilot. We lived in 155 00:09:15.159 --> 00:09:18.639 Germany for about seven years of my childhood. So Jessica 156 00:09:18.639 --> 00:09:20.759 and I knew one another, but we were kind of distant. 157 00:09:20.840 --> 00:09:23.360 We weren't around one another a lot, but we were 158 00:09:23.440 --> 00:09:25.559 cousins and we did obviously love one another. It was 159 00:09:25.639 --> 00:09:27.519 more of a distant relationship. 160 00:09:29.080 --> 00:09:34.960 Right now, Jesse, let's get back to talking about your 161 00:09:35.039 --> 00:09:40.320 friend as well. Her name is Stephanie, and the kinds 162 00:09:40.360 --> 00:09:46.559 of things that Stephanie. Again, Jamie, you do these interviews 163 00:09:46.799 --> 00:09:50.840 and get the take from these people many years later, 164 00:09:51.240 --> 00:09:55.519 but back at that time, Stephanie witnessed sort of the 165 00:09:55.639 --> 00:09:59.960 dynamic that was your new family. This new family would 166 00:10:00.080 --> 00:10:04.840 new siblings and a new dynamic. And as you've written 167 00:10:04.840 --> 00:10:09.480 in the book, Jamie, but Jesse, tell us about you, remember, 168 00:10:09.679 --> 00:10:14.639 and Stephanie got to witness in terms of Jeff's acceptance 169 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:18.799 of your mother and you accepting Bob as your father, 170 00:10:19.440 --> 00:10:21.440 sort of the dynamic that you present in the book. 171 00:10:21.480 --> 00:10:24.919 What was that that family dynamic at that time. 172 00:10:26.399 --> 00:10:33.600 Well, Bob was a disciplinarian, so you know, I got spankings, 173 00:10:34.039 --> 00:10:37.600 stuff like that. We couldn't talk in church because he 174 00:10:37.759 --> 00:10:40.559 was a pastor. You know, we just had to present 175 00:10:40.600 --> 00:10:42.559 ourselves in a certain way, and if we didn't, you know, 176 00:10:42.879 --> 00:10:48.759 got in trouble. Jeff and my mom did not get 177 00:10:48.759 --> 00:10:53.480 along at all. So yeah, other than that, I mean, 178 00:10:54.559 --> 00:10:57.240 it just wasn't like the happy little family that it 179 00:10:57.320 --> 00:10:57.840 could have been. 180 00:11:01.759 --> 00:11:06.240 Throughout this book, Jamie, you picked a certain way of 181 00:11:06.960 --> 00:11:11.519 telling this incredible story, and as you write there, it's 182 00:11:11.639 --> 00:11:15.720 many many years later that you create you connect and 183 00:11:15.879 --> 00:11:21.519 become close as cousins and eventually very very close friends 184 00:11:22.200 --> 00:11:27.000 and beyond. Tell us about the construction of the book 185 00:11:27.039 --> 00:11:33.960 in terms of how you interestingly and very effectively laid 186 00:11:34.000 --> 00:11:36.720 this out, in terms of introducing characters that are important 187 00:11:36.799 --> 00:11:40.480 much later on to tell their story of that time 188 00:11:40.919 --> 00:11:43.879 in nineteen eighty nine. In fact, we have to mention 189 00:11:44.039 --> 00:11:47.679 too that this is a very important date, April twenty eighth, 190 00:11:48.279 --> 00:11:52.039 as the book is released tomorrow officially April twenty ninth, 191 00:11:52.080 --> 00:11:55.519 and that is we are going to be talking about 192 00:11:55.600 --> 00:11:58.360 April twenty ninth, nineteen eighty nine for quite a bit 193 00:11:58.399 --> 00:12:01.080 of this interview. So tell us a little bit about 194 00:12:01.120 --> 00:12:04.799 that the layout of this very very effective but very 195 00:12:04.879 --> 00:12:07.480 interesting way to tell this incredible story. 196 00:12:08.919 --> 00:12:12.159 Sure well, I don't know that initially that I set 197 00:12:12.200 --> 00:12:14.320 out necessarily to do what we ended up doing with 198 00:12:14.440 --> 00:12:16.759 the book, But I would interview jesse and the other 199 00:12:16.799 --> 00:12:19.679 people that appear in the book oh by phone extensively, 200 00:12:20.159 --> 00:12:22.120 and as they would tell me their stories, I would 201 00:12:22.120 --> 00:12:24.879 just kind of start writing the pieces of it. And 202 00:12:24.960 --> 00:12:27.440 it was really interesting to me that, you know, we 203 00:12:27.559 --> 00:12:32.159 started this twenty seven twenty seven years after this, that 204 00:12:32.279 --> 00:12:34.320 the exact people that would be able to help us 205 00:12:34.399 --> 00:12:36.360 paint the story the way that we did would be 206 00:12:36.480 --> 00:12:39.399 the ones in her life. So her best friend Stephanie 207 00:12:39.519 --> 00:12:41.399 was in her life and was willing to talk to us, 208 00:12:41.960 --> 00:12:45.519 her mom, her best friend Mona was in her life 209 00:12:45.559 --> 00:12:48.559 and willing to help us with this. And so, for instance, 210 00:12:48.600 --> 00:12:50.559 at the time that I interviewed Stephanie, I did not 211 00:12:50.759 --> 00:12:54.720 realize that she was such a key part of learning 212 00:12:54.720 --> 00:12:57.879 about what happens on April twenty ninth. So I just 213 00:12:58.039 --> 00:13:01.279 really wanted to show each person as what they saw, 214 00:13:01.480 --> 00:13:04.559 what they felt, what they thought, and to really kind 215 00:13:04.559 --> 00:13:07.480 of immerse people into the experience of what this was 216 00:13:07.639 --> 00:13:09.200 for these people back then. 217 00:13:10.600 --> 00:13:14.039 Right now in this book. And I guess you could 218 00:13:14.519 --> 00:13:19.320 answer this to Jamie, is that there's something in Jessica's 219 00:13:19.360 --> 00:13:24.360 life involving the grandmother. About three weeks before this Faithful 220 00:13:24.440 --> 00:13:29.840 Day of April twenty, nineteen eighty nine, Jesse's Jessica's mother 221 00:13:30.039 --> 00:13:35.080 Don travels to Michigan to visit former mother in law Gail, 222 00:13:36.360 --> 00:13:41.200 and in that there's some telling conversations what is said 223 00:13:41.279 --> 00:13:45.240 to Gail and what is convert what is expressed in 224 00:13:45.399 --> 00:13:46.799 that conversation that visit. 225 00:13:48.320 --> 00:13:49.759 Yeah, I'm going to tell you what I was told 226 00:13:49.799 --> 00:13:52.240 through Mona because she's who I interviewed for that portion 227 00:13:52.360 --> 00:13:55.679 of the book, her mom's best friend. But basically Mona 228 00:13:55.759 --> 00:13:59.679 and Gail had met with Jessica's mom Don, and she 229 00:14:00.039 --> 00:14:03.360 had kind of alluded to having some I guess marital difficulties, 230 00:14:04.159 --> 00:14:08.080 just trouble with the blended family, that everybody wasn't getting along, 231 00:14:08.399 --> 00:14:11.840 and I think Jeff and Jessica were kind of at 232 00:14:11.879 --> 00:14:14.399 the forefront of that they each had lost a parent 233 00:14:14.559 --> 00:14:18.080 was still very angry, kind of rebellious about it. But 234 00:14:18.279 --> 00:14:22.159 ultimately Don would kind of share that she didn't necessarily 235 00:14:22.279 --> 00:14:25.200 feel safe with Jeff in the house. And I don't 236 00:14:25.240 --> 00:14:28.080 know that she felt personally threatened or that her family 237 00:14:28.279 --> 00:14:31.080 was threatened, but I think she feared that Jeff could 238 00:14:31.120 --> 00:14:33.759 possibly do something to harm himself, that that's where she 239 00:14:33.840 --> 00:14:36.799 felt he was at that time, So there was talk 240 00:14:36.879 --> 00:14:39.120 of there being a gun in the house. There was 241 00:14:39.240 --> 00:14:42.240 talk about Don having concerns about everyone not getting along, 242 00:14:43.279 --> 00:14:45.159 but that's about all that they know at that time. 243 00:14:45.440 --> 00:14:48.080 So to Gail and Mona, I think it was just 244 00:14:48.279 --> 00:14:52.120 kind of a normal conversation you would have, like everybody 245 00:14:52.200 --> 00:14:54.960 has troubles. Blended families aren't easy, and that at the 246 00:14:55.039 --> 00:14:56.440 time is what they took it for. 247 00:14:58.600 --> 00:15:03.720 Right now, Jesse, as you write in the book, you 248 00:15:03.840 --> 00:15:08.200 take the reader and now our audience to April twenty eighth, 249 00:15:08.320 --> 00:15:13.159 nineteen eighty nine. It's a Friday, and what are the 250 00:15:13.320 --> 00:15:19.320 plans that you have for this weekend that also include 251 00:15:19.559 --> 00:15:25.440 your sister? Why is this weekend important and special to you? 252 00:15:25.919 --> 00:15:29.039 Tell us about what are the plans and what happens 253 00:15:29.200 --> 00:15:31.360 on April twenty eighth, nineteen eighty nine. 254 00:15:33.240 --> 00:15:38.279 Actually it was the twenty seventh. I was supposed to 255 00:15:38.320 --> 00:15:39.960 go to a friend's house with my sister for the 256 00:15:40.000 --> 00:15:43.840 whole weekend. And I had walked in my mom's room 257 00:15:43.840 --> 00:15:46.679 where she was she was in the bathroom, and you know, 258 00:15:46.840 --> 00:15:50.120 to tell her goodbye, and she informed me that my 259 00:15:50.200 --> 00:15:52.639 sister was not going. So I tried to argue with 260 00:15:52.720 --> 00:15:55.399 her and she just gave me the look and I 261 00:15:55.519 --> 00:15:58.519 just kind of backed off. So I went to my 262 00:15:58.600 --> 00:16:04.200 friend's house out my sister, and. 263 00:16:04.360 --> 00:16:07.519 You weren't you weren't You weren't pleased about this, but 264 00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:14.960 you went to have now this friend. It's very interesting 265 00:16:15.080 --> 00:16:17.960 too that later we'll we'll see the relevance of this 266 00:16:19.480 --> 00:16:22.840 for this book. You could not remember that young girl's name? 267 00:16:23.159 --> 00:16:24.120 Is that correct? No? 268 00:16:25.039 --> 00:16:28.519 Yep, yep, I couldn't remember anything about her. 269 00:16:29.799 --> 00:16:33.440 Wow, very interesting. Now what about that? You do remember 270 00:16:33.639 --> 00:16:39.240 something about that night at your friend's house? Was it peaceful? 271 00:16:39.360 --> 00:16:41.759 Was it a good night? Wasn't a fun night for you? 272 00:16:43.039 --> 00:16:46.720 I mean, I obviously don't remember. I don't remember any 273 00:16:46.759 --> 00:16:50.639 of that. I wish I could, but it's my mind 274 00:16:50.720 --> 00:16:56.279 blocked out for some reason. So but Sunday, you know, 275 00:16:56.440 --> 00:16:58.519 my friend's mom came to drop me off at home, 276 00:16:58.679 --> 00:17:04.279 and you know, we pulled in and there was crime 277 00:17:04.319 --> 00:17:08.200 scene tape around the house and all the church people outside. 278 00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:11.720 Police officers were everywhere. So I thought maybe my dog 279 00:17:11.839 --> 00:17:15.759 had died or something happened to him, and I, uh, 280 00:17:17.200 --> 00:17:19.480 the police officer came to my friend's mom's window and 281 00:17:19.680 --> 00:17:23.240 had her get out, and I saw that she had 282 00:17:23.319 --> 00:17:27.200 just started crying, and you know, I knew something something 283 00:17:27.240 --> 00:17:29.480 had happened, but wasn't sure. What you know, in a 284 00:17:29.519 --> 00:17:32.920 nine year old mind, you don't. You can't think of 285 00:17:33.319 --> 00:17:38.400 the most extreme thing happening. So I uh, she came 286 00:17:38.480 --> 00:17:42.000 around and opened my door and told me that my 287 00:17:42.240 --> 00:17:47.720 whole family was gone. So it was I. I just cried, 288 00:17:48.680 --> 00:17:53.839 cried and cried. I couldn't even comprehend what that all 289 00:17:53.960 --> 00:17:54.599 actually meant. 290 00:17:58.519 --> 00:18:03.279 Now, Jamie, just to pick up this, there was talk 291 00:18:03.400 --> 00:18:07.720 that Jeff was going to a prom that night, and 292 00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:12.599 I don't know if we're maybe we're maybe we'll just 293 00:18:12.759 --> 00:18:15.799 leave that in terms for it for this audience to discover. 294 00:18:17.640 --> 00:18:24.559 H But Jamie, tell us what the police find at 295 00:18:24.640 --> 00:18:25.359 that crime scene. 296 00:18:26.839 --> 00:18:29.279 The police fined the body of Bob Pelly in the 297 00:18:29.359 --> 00:18:33.960 hallway with two shotgun wounds, one to the chest and 298 00:18:34.039 --> 00:18:36.880 one right beneath the chin and neck area. They would 299 00:18:36.920 --> 00:18:39.839 find Jesse's mom and two sisters in the basement to 300 00:18:39.960 --> 00:18:43.559 kind of huddled in a circle formation, all shot point 301 00:18:43.599 --> 00:18:47.599 blank range with a shotgun. Interestingly, the entire house was 302 00:18:47.640 --> 00:18:51.880 locked up, curtains and blinds were drawn. Nothing appeared to 303 00:18:51.920 --> 00:18:54.759 be stolen, and so for that reason. It seems the 304 00:18:54.799 --> 00:18:57.759 detective spewed it to be an inside job based on 305 00:18:58.240 --> 00:19:01.640 the crime scene, and then later some things would happen, 306 00:19:01.799 --> 00:19:05.240 and based on behaviors and actions, it would point them 307 00:19:05.279 --> 00:19:06.319 in a certain direction. 308 00:19:08.640 --> 00:19:12.440 You right, Jamie, that there's an interesting set of circumstances 309 00:19:12.519 --> 00:19:17.279 that occur, and terming with a forensic pathologist, I believe 310 00:19:18.160 --> 00:19:21.319 at least it's in the neighborhood. And the very interesting 311 00:19:21.400 --> 00:19:26.839 and very important issue that happens. The time of death 312 00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:30.200 is not determined at that time. There's not, as you write, 313 00:19:30.200 --> 00:19:33.519 they not the proper test to determine that. Again, which 314 00:19:33.680 --> 00:19:37.000 obviously our audience would be aware that that would be problematic. 315 00:19:37.119 --> 00:19:39.599 Later tell us a little bit more about what they 316 00:19:39.680 --> 00:19:42.599 see at this cream crime scene or don't see the robbery. 317 00:19:42.720 --> 00:19:45.680 These talk about an inside job, So what do you 318 00:19:45.759 --> 00:19:51.880 police know immediately in relation to that inside job? Who 319 00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:52.640 is the suspect? 320 00:19:52.839 --> 00:19:58.200 Yeah, so they do suspect fairly early on. It to 321 00:19:58.279 --> 00:20:01.799 be her stepbrother, who was seventeen years old at the time. 322 00:20:03.880 --> 00:20:05.880 The last doubt that he was seen wearing while the 323 00:20:05.920 --> 00:20:09.559 family was alive was in the washer, spun clinging to 324 00:20:09.640 --> 00:20:11.680 the drum, and it was jeans and a shirt and 325 00:20:11.720 --> 00:20:13.960 two pairs of socks. That was the only thing in there. 326 00:20:14.119 --> 00:20:16.279 So for a family with that many people, it's just 327 00:20:16.319 --> 00:20:18.759 a very unusual load of laundry to be in there. 328 00:20:19.480 --> 00:20:22.880 He would ultimately show up to meet his girlfriend and 329 00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:25.920 friends late to go out to dinner, and he would 330 00:20:25.960 --> 00:20:28.960 be carrying his tucks when he arrived, which was unusual. 331 00:20:29.319 --> 00:20:31.200 You would assume that his dad and Don would have 332 00:20:31.240 --> 00:20:35.160 taken pictures of him going to the prom. That obviously 333 00:20:35.200 --> 00:20:39.559 didn't occur. And I think mostly it's Jeff's own words, behaviors, 334 00:20:39.599 --> 00:20:43.240 and actions that really lend themselves to putting the spotlight 335 00:20:43.319 --> 00:20:46.880 on him initially, and as the case moves forward. 336 00:20:48.799 --> 00:20:52.960 We'll get back to that behavior and also the issue 337 00:20:53.279 --> 00:21:02.880 of behavior surrounding his prized Mustang vehicle. At the same time, Jesse, 338 00:21:04.759 --> 00:21:08.599 what are you told about other than that initial that 339 00:21:08.759 --> 00:21:12.599 your family has gone. What are you told in real 340 00:21:12.759 --> 00:21:19.559 terms about suspects or investigation or anything in relation to that. 341 00:21:19.680 --> 00:21:21.599 What are you told at that time? What do you know? 342 00:21:22.119 --> 00:21:26.000 I'm I knew nothing at that time. It was a 343 00:21:26.119 --> 00:21:30.039 hush hush thing, you know, couldn't really talk about it. 344 00:21:32.960 --> 00:21:35.599 Everybody from that point of my life was cut off 345 00:21:35.640 --> 00:21:40.400 from me, So I really knew nothing besides what I 346 00:21:40.799 --> 00:21:42.880 had kind of conjured up in my own head. 347 00:21:45.319 --> 00:21:46.039 And what was that. 348 00:21:47.599 --> 00:21:51.400 Well, I thought that my stepdad had killed my mom 349 00:21:51.440 --> 00:21:52.960 and sisters and then killed himself. 350 00:21:56.559 --> 00:22:01.440 Now with that conclusion and then coupled with again this 351 00:22:01.960 --> 00:22:05.680 upheaval in your life, to say the least, and this 352 00:22:06.039 --> 00:22:08.559 you already had the anger towards Bob and some anger 353 00:22:08.960 --> 00:22:13.160 towards your mother from uprooting you. Who do you go 354 00:22:13.319 --> 00:22:16.279 live with and what's your behavior? Like? 355 00:22:18.559 --> 00:22:20.960 I lived with a bunch of different people, But I 356 00:22:21.200 --> 00:22:25.599 initially went to my mom's dad's house, my grandfather. I 357 00:22:25.720 --> 00:22:29.319 was only there a short while when they said I 358 00:22:29.359 --> 00:22:31.279 should probably go live with my aunt, who had three 359 00:22:31.400 --> 00:22:35.000 small children. They thought maybe that would help me. So 360 00:22:35.119 --> 00:22:37.880 I went there. I just acted out. I didn't know 361 00:22:39.039 --> 00:22:42.599 how to deal with my feelings. I used to cut 362 00:22:43.440 --> 00:22:48.440 just to get the internal feelings not gone, but to 363 00:22:48.480 --> 00:22:52.000 where I wouldn't have to feel so stuff like that, 364 00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:55.359 I just, you know, very rebellious, and I just didn't 365 00:22:55.359 --> 00:22:57.759 know what to do. And I was, you know, no 366 00:22:57.839 --> 00:22:59.000 one could help me at that point. 367 00:23:00.240 --> 00:23:03.359 Right now, Jamie, you take us in the book to 368 00:23:04.160 --> 00:23:09.240 at the beginning of the book, a very profound visual scene. 369 00:23:10.599 --> 00:23:18.319 Friend Stephanie, mutual friend Stephanie, Jessica and yourself are at 370 00:23:18.400 --> 00:23:26.400 this incredible funeral. Jamie tell us about that funeral. 371 00:23:28.079 --> 00:23:30.240 It's a really hard thing to put into words, and 372 00:23:30.279 --> 00:23:32.119 I had a hard time writing that chapter to get 373 00:23:32.119 --> 00:23:35.240 it to truly be what it was for us. But 374 00:23:35.359 --> 00:23:37.200 you have to realize that we were three young girls 375 00:23:38.440 --> 00:23:40.599 and this was by no means a normal funeral of 376 00:23:40.680 --> 00:23:43.000 any kind. And for you to kind of understand it, 377 00:23:43.079 --> 00:23:44.839 you have to realize that we were at a funeral 378 00:23:45.200 --> 00:23:49.880 in the church where Bob Pelly used to minister, and 379 00:23:50.200 --> 00:23:52.480 there were four caskets at the front of that for him, 380 00:23:52.720 --> 00:23:55.400 his wife in the two little girls, ages six and eight. 381 00:23:56.839 --> 00:23:59.119 And this was the type of a room where, you know, 382 00:23:59.240 --> 00:24:01.599 usually grown ups to hold it together, especially if they're 383 00:24:01.599 --> 00:24:06.480 around kids, or to not cry, and this was so 384 00:24:06.960 --> 00:24:11.000 deep with grief and hurting. People were literally crying and 385 00:24:11.079 --> 00:24:15.039 audibly sobbing and wailing into the air. And it's what 386 00:24:15.160 --> 00:24:17.680 I remember the most is the church hymns because they 387 00:24:17.799 --> 00:24:20.680 just seemed so off compared to where we were sitting, 388 00:24:21.359 --> 00:24:24.880 so hearing them sing like the song Amazing Grace scarred 389 00:24:24.920 --> 00:24:28.279 me for life. I learned to hate that song from 390 00:24:28.319 --> 00:24:33.359 that experience, So it was just even the detectives were 391 00:24:33.400 --> 00:24:35.960 completely shaken. You can tell from things that were written 392 00:24:36.039 --> 00:24:38.039 later that no family should have to sit and sing 393 00:24:38.079 --> 00:24:41.039 Amazing Grace the way that we did, so it was horrible. 394 00:24:42.559 --> 00:24:48.599 Right now, back to this investigation. You talk about the police, 395 00:24:48.880 --> 00:24:54.319 it's an inside job. There's no robbery motive. The police 396 00:24:54.440 --> 00:25:00.319 find out what about the arrangement with as you said, Jesse, 397 00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:05.599 the disciplinarian Bob, your stepdad, what is the arrangement with 398 00:25:05.799 --> 00:25:08.880 his son, the prom and the mustang? 399 00:25:10.799 --> 00:25:14.680 He was not allowed to drive the mustang. His dad 400 00:25:14.880 --> 00:25:17.480 was going to take him to bron and then bring 401 00:25:17.599 --> 00:25:21.160