Speaker 1: Doctor SEUs, doctor Wave the piano anymore.
Speaker 2: Of course you can't.
Speaker 1: Well I couldn't before.
Speaker 2: Please, I love legitimate.
Speaker 1: Theater fourfinger discount.
Speaker 3: Dude, Welcome to forfigire this game with this week, we're
Speaker 3: going back to review an iconic episode from season seven
Speaker 3: of The Simpsons. It is a fish called sum rhyme.
Speaker 4: Dander and I am guy and we are not alone.
Speaker 3: We are not alone. Indeed, we are joined this week
Speaker 3: by the showrunner at the time in this episode, ed
Speaker 3: it is Josh Weinstein, an absolute icon of the Simpsons world.
Speaker 3: He is just an absolute delight to talk to you.
Speaker 3: You guys are gonna have an absolute ball listen to us,
Speaker 3: just talk about all the not just this episode in general,
Speaker 3: but just all the behind this means of his time
Speaker 3: working on the Simpsons, post and pre Simpsons as well.
Speaker 4: You will have a bit of fun listening to us,
Speaker 4: but mostly you'll be listening to Josh. He's got a
Speaker 4: lot to say, and he's very entertaining saying it. Yeah,
Speaker 4: got a lot of behind the scenes dish, yeah, but
Speaker 4: a lot of insight into yeah, the creation of the show.
Speaker 4: But also, as listeners of the show will know, we're big,
Speaker 4: big fans of Phil Harmon, and we got some great
Speaker 4: stuff about Phil because this is a very Phil centric episode.
Speaker 3: It was indeed, Yeah, and he's touched on how great
Speaker 3: it was to finally give Phil an episode, just give
Speaker 3: Troy McClure his own episode as well, and why they
Speaker 3: wanted to do that, so or we'll dove into that,
Speaker 3: but also just delve into his time at the retreats,
Speaker 3: which are really really interesting, some really behind the scenes
Speaker 3: stuff about, I know, just how they were able to
Speaker 3: get away with certain gags on The Simpsons, and a
Speaker 3: really interesting story about how he now kind of regrets
Speaker 3: leaving the Simpsons in the first place, which is really
Speaker 3: interesting as well, So look out for that. In our
Speaker 3: chat he with Josh Winston as we discussed a fish
Speaker 3: caught salmon. But Josh is one of those guys. He
Speaker 3: and Bill they were a team where they joined the Simpsons,
Speaker 3: I least season four, but they were the first sort
Speaker 3: of Simpson fans to join the writing team, and it
Speaker 3: really shines through in this interview here where he seems
Speaker 3: you can tell he's genuinely excited to discuss his time
Speaker 3: working on the show and as a fan, these are
Speaker 3: the kind of people. Josh and Bill my two favorite
Speaker 3: people to talk to you because they are fans just
Speaker 3: like you and I, and they enjoyed their time working
Speaker 3: on the show, and they enjoyed making their own version
Speaker 3: of The Simpsons. And it's just it's just an absolute
Speaker 3: fantastic chat and I'm glad that we finally got a
Speaker 3: chance to do it.
Speaker 4: No, it's great doing interviews like this. Yeah, just getting
Speaker 4: a look behind the scenes at how the sausage is made.
Speaker 4: Sometimes you say you shouldn't do that, but when the
Speaker 4: sausage is this tasty, who cares how they made it?
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Also just an insight into the creative process in general.
Speaker 4: I find them really really illuminating. And when it's yeah,
Speaker 4: someone is articulate and forthcoming as Josh. Yeah, it's even even.
Speaker 3: Better now at the end of this so basically, we
Speaker 3: usually do our full run through of the episode, so
Speaker 3: we did. We will be doing that, but we talked
Speaker 3: with Josh and we've got about, you know, two thirds
Speaker 3: of the way through, and we'll be going for an hour.
Speaker 3: It's probably too late now to start a full run through,
Speaker 3: so we're just touching the key points of the episode
Speaker 3: because we've already been discussing it for like an hour
Speaker 3: as well as well. He's behind the scenes stuff, So
Speaker 3: listen for once Josh and I, Well, once we finished
Speaker 3: our chat with Josh, guy and I stick around and
Speaker 3: we will record our full run through of the episode
Speaker 3: as well, So if you want to hear the full
Speaker 3: run through that is post our chat with Josh. But
Speaker 3: you're wondering why is this episode so long? That is
Speaker 3: why we didn't keep Josh in a line for three hours?
Speaker 4: So look, who's ever complained about links?
Speaker 3: I mean, he would have stuck around for three hours.
Speaker 3: I feel like it was up for it.
Speaker 4: We were like, Josh, we gotta go.
Speaker 3: No, not at all. And Josh, that's going to be
Speaker 3: coming back on the show next year sometime as well,
Speaker 3: potentially to do this year Scratchy and Pucci show, or
Speaker 3: maybe the Principle and the Porpa I think would be
Speaker 3: a fune to talk to talk about as well, because yeah,
Speaker 3: very iconic for dividing in the Simpsons fans, which he
Speaker 3: was a part of creating. But again, don't forget. You
Speaker 3: can support us on Patreon for as little as just
Speaker 3: one dollar per month, so if you want early and
Speaker 3: ad free access to this show, and all the other
Speaker 3: shows we do here at the four figure discount Network,
Speaker 3: as well as access to exclusive episodes of Talking Seinfeld
Speaker 3: or Speaking of the Heel, or tales of Futurama or
Speaker 3: all that other good stuff. Yeah, to find out, it's
Speaker 3: on our Patreon channel and you can find a link
Speaker 3: for that in the description of this podcast. Enough shilling
Speaker 3: is now time you guys sit down and enjoy our
Speaker 3: conversation with the legendary Josh Weinstein. And he was Josh Winstein,
Speaker 3: how are you doing?
Speaker 2: My good say a good thank you? Is it like,
Speaker 2: is it Thursday there? Or Wednesday?
Speaker 4: It is Wednesday morning?
Speaker 3: It's Wednesday next week?
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, yeah, it's last week here, it's last
Speaker 2: week nineteen ninety five.
Speaker 4: Donald Trump is now in his third term. So you
Speaker 4: got that to look forward.
Speaker 2: Oh boy, well you.
Speaker 3: Didn't you wrote but versus Australia, didn't you the episode?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it. That's always We have always wondered about
Speaker 2: that because you know, the story behind it is like
Speaker 2: we got after we wrote it, because we were like
Speaker 2: we got there. We it was one of the first
Speaker 2: times they're going to another country and we're like, you
Speaker 2: know what, Australias have a good sense of humor. Let's
Speaker 2: do that. And then after it aired, we got all
Speaker 2: these letters from school children saying, why did you make
Speaker 2: fun of our couple of blah blah. But then we've
Speaker 2: heard that it was all from just one sour teacher,
Speaker 2: and I've met other Australians who were kids at the
Speaker 2: time and said, oh, they loved it. So I don't
Speaker 2: what did you guys?
Speaker 3: Well, see, I was a child at that time. I
Speaker 3: grew up in that moment in the nineties, and we
Speaker 3: loved it. And whenever I see oh Australians they didn't
Speaker 3: take it the right way. They were offended. I look
Speaker 3: back and go, I don't recall seeing anybody or hearing
Speaker 3: anybody who was offended. We're all walking around saying Dollarydoes
Speaker 3: I mean bluey? Our beloved Blue now uses dollary dues
Speaker 3: as their term for money.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So we really wanted that campaign to make it the
Speaker 2: official denomination to go ahead because that would be so cool.
Speaker 4: No, very small, very easily offended sub section of Australians
Speaker 4: who were.
Speaker 2: There's an easy to offend sub section everywhere, like even
Speaker 2: including on the Simpsons. I have a story about that
Speaker 2: about this episode about the table read.
Speaker 3: I actually know the one you're talking about. Was it
Speaker 3: about the smoking gag?
Speaker 2: Yes, smoking for two?
Speaker 4: Yeah, let's talk about it.
Speaker 3: Let's about it now. So we did't talk about fish
Speaker 3: called Salma and then always obviously Salma she got she
Speaker 3: got in trouble for smoking in the first bit and
Speaker 3: now it's worked, it works out well for choice Career
Speaker 3: says no, she's now smoking for two because they're gonna
Speaker 3: have a baby and go, Josh, what happened to the
Speaker 3: table read when that line was run out?
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's also there's like they're they're already there's
Speaker 2: a very like anti smoking and obviously cigarette smoker's bad
Speaker 2: free blah blah blah. But it's there's antis we always
Speaker 2: got notes about because you're not really supposed to show
Speaker 2: cigarettes in cartoons because it's still kind of regarded as
Speaker 2: a kid's show even then even then, so like we
Speaker 2: get notes, but we are allowed, we are allowed to
Speaker 2: do it. We are allowed to do it anyway. And
Speaker 2: also so anyway, so here's the thing about Simpson's Table
Speaker 2: Reads is like you're there to laugh and support the
Speaker 2: script and if you don't like a joke, you know,
Speaker 2: don't laugh, but don't, for god's sakes, don't call out
Speaker 2: during the table read like this person did when they're
Speaker 2: offended by the joke. Then was when they're decide that
Speaker 2: they're gonna have a baby and the major d brings
Speaker 2: up some cigarettes for Selma uh before because they didn't
Speaker 2: like her smoking, but now that she's famous, blah blah blah,
Speaker 2: they bring her cigarettes and Troy says, somebody asks somebody
Speaker 2: something and Troy says, yeah, now she's smoking for two
Speaker 2: And during the table read, somebody on the Simpsons staff
Speaker 2: I will not say who called out and said that
Speaker 2: has got to go, And it's like nobody and you
Speaker 2: don't do that. Nobody does that. And it's also like
Speaker 2: nobody except like the actors and the person running the
Speaker 2: table read is supposed to ever say anything during a read.
Speaker 2: And there was just like a moment of silence and
Speaker 2: we just like continued.
Speaker 3: Is that right? During the table raids? You just shut up?
Speaker 3: Is that basically the case?
Speaker 2: You should? You shut up and hopefully you laugh. And
Speaker 2: normally there's like a ring, like there's a ring of writers,
Speaker 2: like the actors and like the showrunner who's usually the
Speaker 2: narrator sits at the table with actors and then like
Speaker 2: the writers, and it's like, you know, like thirty of
Speaker 2: her peat staff members who sit around the room and
Speaker 2: we learned the writers. We would place ourselves next to
Speaker 2: particularly sour people to like laugh ex and we'd laugh
Speaker 2: extra loud to try to get them to laugh or
Speaker 2: compensate for their sourness. But this was a person who'd
Speaker 2: like never laughed and was not really as someone who
Speaker 2: didn't really know what they did on the show. But
Speaker 2: I guess it was to call out jokes they didn't like.
Speaker 2: But eventually that person left the show. Not the joke.
Speaker 4: So, but it is the thing, Josh, I mean, it
Speaker 4: strikes me as kind of a fundamental misunderstanding of Troy McClue,
Speaker 4: but also Troy McClure in this episode where he's extra selfish,
Speaker 4: because I mean, you're putting this kind of dog gag
Speaker 4: in the math of someone who's incredibly uh, you know, vain, insensitive, thoughtless.
Speaker 4: You know, it works really really well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's the whole kind of point of a joke,
Speaker 2: is it is like thoughtless, and it is like it
Speaker 2: is like pointing out that that's not a good thing.
Speaker 3: So anyway, Well, we do a staff pop podcast as well,
Speaker 3: and quite off for me will heep people say, oh,
Speaker 3: cotmany can you believe he's doing that? Can you believe
Speaker 3: he's doing this? And it's saying this, It's like, yeah,
Speaker 3: but it's common saying he's the bad guys to.
Speaker 2: Be saying these things exactly.
Speaker 3: But but yeah, do you miss your time working on
Speaker 3: The Simpsons?
Speaker 2: I do, because it was such they were really heavy
Speaker 2: days because it was in it's I don't know how
Speaker 2: it is now, but in the nineties it was also
Speaker 2: because the internet was so nacent and like it was
Speaker 2: really like it took ten minutes. It was a time
Speaker 2: of dial up modems, so it take us ten minutes
Speaker 2: to dial up to get online to read all TV
Speaker 2: Simpsons where someone is saying worst episode ever, and it
Speaker 2: ended up being an episode that everyone regarded as classic.
Speaker 2: So we were kind of like, but we're kind of
Speaker 2: very pleasantly sheltered because we really didn't like there wasn't
Speaker 2: a lot of internet fandom going on, so we were
Speaker 2: really just writing for ourselves. And also in the nineties,
Speaker 2: during our time there, the Simpsons was still regarded as
Speaker 2: like a kids show by adults. So like anyone over
Speaker 2: forty either didn't like The Simpsons or didn't even know
Speaker 2: about it, and so we were really like writing for ourselves.
Speaker 2: And you know the whole story about how Fox wasn't
Speaker 2: allowed to give us notes, So we were really like
Speaker 2: sheltered in like a very good way, and we were
Speaker 2: just writing for ourselves and Mac crating and Jim Brooks
Speaker 2: was around occasionally. He had a big role in this episode,
Speaker 2: by the way, and also like Matt was there and
Speaker 2: they always like were super supportive of whatever we wanted
Speaker 2: to do. So it was really that for that reason,
Speaker 2: and also for the reason that Bill and I were
Speaker 2: huge fans of the show before we started working on it,
Speaker 2: and we were the first fans to ever write for
Speaker 2: the show. So we were just in giddy la la land.
Speaker 2: Even like when we were running the show and it
Speaker 2: was really hard, in exhausting, it still was kind of
Speaker 2: thrilling to be able to do it.
Speaker 4: Just before we talk about you and Bill working a
Speaker 4: showrunners on The Simpsons, I'd like to find out a
Speaker 4: bit about your relationship, which is fairly long standing. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I was thinking about when reading about you guys, in
Speaker 4: your relationship, I was thinking about I'm a big Kids
Speaker 4: in the Hall fan. And there was this great documentary
Speaker 4: about them recently where they talked about how Dave falling,
Speaker 4: Kevin McDonald and each other, and they sort of it
Speaker 4: was love at first sight because they were able to
Speaker 4: make each other laugh almost instantly, and they said, Oh,
Speaker 4: he's the most integrated I feel with another person. It's
Speaker 4: almost like, yeah, it's like finding your first love. Not
Speaker 4: to I'm wondering if it's like that with you and Bill,
Speaker 4: if you sort of have if you feel sympaticial in
Speaker 4: that way.
Speaker 2: A writing team is. It's always likened to marriages, and
Speaker 2: it's very true, and it's also it helped that Bill
Speaker 2: and I met when we were like sixteen in high
Speaker 2: school and like still in our formative years, and in fact,
Speaker 2: the first time we kind of really met was in
Speaker 2: this geometry class with this horrible, this evil teacher who
Speaker 2: in fact we put we put in the show She's
Speaker 2: one of the child services woman in Home Sweet Diddly,
Speaker 2: Dumb Diddly. She was an evil, horrible, mean spirited teacher
Speaker 2: and she made people cry. And we were in high school.
Speaker 2: But anyway, so we were in this geometry class and Bill,
Speaker 2: who's also, who's a really good cartoonist threw caricatures of
Speaker 2: everybody in the class and I really liked them, and
Speaker 2: we started talking and then we just kind of like
Speaker 2: hit it off from there. And then we started a
Speaker 2: humor magazine in our high school and also a lot
Speaker 2: of and and the headmaster of the high school tried
Speaker 2: to shut it down, but everybody else liked it, and
Speaker 2: then it ended up like teachers liked to be put
Speaker 2: into it because they were like, oh, that means I'm
Speaker 2: popular or whatever. So it was like it was like
Speaker 2: a hit for while we were there.
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, this is like a Superhero origin store I fixed.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So And as a matter of fact, also, like
Speaker 2: so a lot of like Principal Skinner existed before we
Speaker 2: came on the show, but he are writing of him
Speaker 2: and you is based on a lot of the teachers
Speaker 2: and the headmaster at our high school.
Speaker 3: So you guys were always planning to be a team
Speaker 3: when it came to working in this field or is
Speaker 3: it just to just work out that way?
Speaker 2: No, we did. We like we were pretty I know, no,
Speaker 2: not careerists, but like we we knew from like high school,
Speaker 2: like it would be great if we could write comedy together,
Speaker 2: and we had no idea, like would it be journalism,
Speaker 2: would it be advertising, would it be TV? Like we
Speaker 2: had no we had no idea, but we're like, this
Speaker 2: would be this is a good thing to pursue him.
Speaker 2: It's fun. So we did. We did, and we we
Speaker 2: went to separate collegists. We both worked on our college
Speaker 2: humor Magaze separate college humor magazines, but we actually did
Speaker 2: a joint issue together on that and we, like I said,
Speaker 2: we always just kind of work together from dead and
Speaker 2: we also have our our own side stuff and like
Speaker 2: now like we're not officially working together, but we're still
Speaker 2: like really good friends.
Speaker 3: What did you h bring to the table, because obviously
Speaker 3: you had a lot of similarities, but you must have
Speaker 3: h brought your own unique brand of comedy as well
Speaker 3: to the team.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's I think the interesting thing is our comedy
Speaker 2: is really similar, and I mean I think that's why
Speaker 2: we hit it off. Like we have really similar senses
Speaker 2: of humor, and our sense of humor I won't say matured,
Speaker 2: but grew together. So like we like so like we
Speaker 2: really like we don't have different senses of humor, and
Speaker 2: in fact, at the time too. In The Simpsons, we
Speaker 2: thought we were the only people in the world who
Speaker 2: had that sense of humor and maybe a couple of
Speaker 2: our friends. And so it's really what's really great is
Speaker 2: like that we foisted our sense of humor on like
Speaker 2: impressionable young minds. So now there's a lot more people
Speaker 2: that sense of humor. But I would say, like we
Speaker 2: did in a good partnership, each person has their strengths,
Speaker 2: Like Bill was particularly good, though each of us are
Speaker 2: really good at jokes. Bill was particularly good at story,
Speaker 2: and I think I was particularly good at jokes, and
Speaker 2: we kind of wore off on each other. So I
Speaker 2: learned a lot about story from Bill and vice versa.
Speaker 2: And so it was just like a good partnership. And
Speaker 2: also when you're running a show like The Simpsons, for
Speaker 2: it's a never ending task and it's much better when
Speaker 2: you have two people and a lot of time. When
Speaker 2: we were running the show, we would end up just
Speaker 2: splitting up our different chores.
Speaker 3: Who did you learn the most from more Rodes's perspective
Speaker 3: at the Simpsons.
Speaker 2: There were so many. It really was like when like
Speaker 2: when we first started, we were The other new person
Speaker 2: on the show is Conan, who had started like eight
Speaker 2: months before us, And aside from that, it was all
Speaker 2: the original writers and Bill and I were really lucky
Speaker 2: because it just so happened that a team of writers,
Speaker 2: Ja Kokan and Wally wall Darsky were leaving right when
Speaker 2: we had our agent ask do you have an opening,
Speaker 2: and they were like, well, we happen to have an
Speaker 2: opening for a team, and we were a team, and
Speaker 2: so we got in. But I think we learned from
Speaker 2: all all those guys, and they were it was all
Speaker 2: guys at the time, Yeah, which thankfully now has changed.
Speaker 3: Was that a lot that threaout your time there the
Speaker 3: entire time, that's just mostly a male dominated writers.
Speaker 2: We hired some women and but it was like it
Speaker 2: was still like what's interesting is that the early Simpsons,
Speaker 2: though it was a totally new thing, it's like the
Speaker 2: last gasp of the old sitcom comedy world and the
Speaker 2: new breed of people are coming in. So it's kind
Speaker 2: of like right at the cusp because like Sam Simon,
Speaker 2: who is brilliant and who's one of the people that
Speaker 2: we learned a lot from. He had worked on old
Speaker 2: old timey sitcoms like Taxi and that's so stuff and Obviously,
Speaker 2: Jim Brooks created some of the best sitcoms of like seventies,
Speaker 2: like Mary Tyler Moore, but they were in which those
Speaker 2: shows that were a little smarter and more emotionally in
Speaker 2: touch than a lot of classic sitcoms. But then like
Speaker 2: the Simpsons came along and kind of broke the mold,
Speaker 2: but it still took a while for it to break
Speaker 2: the mold of being like having a diverse writing staff.
Speaker 4: Josh, you and Bill kind of got your start with
Speaker 4: the Sonfeld speck, Is that right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we we had. We actually got started before that
Speaker 2: on these cable comedy shows in New York, and actually
Speaker 2: we worked on a game show and then a talk
Speaker 2: show for this comedy network called HA, which eventually HA
Speaker 2: and the Comedy Channel merged to become Comedy Central. But
Speaker 2: this was in its early days, and a lot of
Speaker 2: people on the both the game show and the talk
Speaker 2: show ended up working on The Simpsons. And in fact,
Speaker 2: our first boss on our very first show in New
Speaker 2: York was Ian Maxtone Graham, and we hired to work
Speaker 2: on The Simpsons.
Speaker 3: You hired him, Yeah, that he.
Speaker 2: Hired us, and then we hired him.
Speaker 3: Yes, Well, didn't Al Jan didn't Al, Jen and Race
Speaker 3: work on Carsons?
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, they worked on They I think that
Speaker 2: was they worked on Carson and then the Larry Sanders Show,
Speaker 2: and I think maybe Alf. Yes, So like a lot
Speaker 2: of a lot of writers cut cut their teeth on
Speaker 2: these like classic comedy or shows or sitcoms. And then
Speaker 2: Kate where I think, we're really happy to come to
Speaker 2: The Simpsons where you could explode all those rules and
Speaker 2: not have to go buy them and.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but what an incredible ecosystem.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's like so it was half. It was
Speaker 2: half people like Mike and Al who had worked on
Speaker 2: these other comedy shows, and some people like Sam. Sam
Speaker 2: assembled the original writing staff, even though it's like Sam,
Speaker 2: Matt and Jim all kind of developed and created the
Speaker 2: show and it comes from Matt's original idea and Matt's family,
Speaker 2: Matt's drawings, so they all and again like a partnership.
Speaker 2: They each of them contributed something crucial to the show.
Speaker 2: But Sam assembled the original writing staff, and part of
Speaker 2: it was from you know a story about It's from
Speaker 2: this magazine Army Man. And there are people like people
Speaker 2: like both like Schwartzwelder and George Meyer and John Vitty
Speaker 2: had all worked on SNL and had terrible experiences. And
Speaker 2: for example, I believe that George was just like, I'm
Speaker 2: quit this business. I hate it, and moved to Colorado
Speaker 2: and he started this magazine call just like it was
Speaker 2: like a mimeograph magazine, a zine called Army Man where
Speaker 2: he just have all his friends who are funny writers
Speaker 2: contribute weird jokes. And the Army Man magazine became something
Speaker 2: that people passed around in comedy writer circles as this
Speaker 2: kind of like holy Grail, like who is this and
Speaker 2: who's making it an uncut, very mysterious thing. And and
Speaker 2: Sam Simon loved it and actually kind of went down
Speaker 2: the masthead and hired a number of people from Army
Speaker 2: Man so brought he brought in like these delightful weirdos
Speaker 2: from all different sectors and it just it just worked.
Speaker 3: Do you think he pitched it with the idea of
Speaker 3: we can do what we want, that they can't tell
Speaker 3: us what we can't do something there's no senses basically, Yeah.
Speaker 2: And Sam. Part of the reason Sam was so critical,
Speaker 2: and and and Matt and Jim too is they all
Speaker 2: kind of like didn't wouldn't suffer fools easily and could
Speaker 2: eat all saw through corporate bullshit, and so they were
Speaker 2: all like, we're going to do our own thing. But
Speaker 2: it also happened that when when thanks to Jim Brooks,
Speaker 2: who was a very powerful director and producer at the
Speaker 2: time of movies and Fox Network was just starting out,
Speaker 2: I believe like when they pitched it to them, they said,
Speaker 2: we'll do this show for you, but you can't interfere
Speaker 2: and you can't give notes. And from that moment on
Speaker 2: they kind of and we actually during the time we were
Speaker 2: running it, we were friends who have an executive who's
Speaker 2: a really nice guy, and we actually had to sneak
Speaker 2: him into table reads and not say to anybody like,
Speaker 2: hey have Fox executive is here. By word, it's just like,
Speaker 2: here's our friend coming in. Because it was like it
Speaker 2: was like an amazing thing and you would never have
Speaker 2: that on any other show at any other time. So
Speaker 2: it really was like everybody was always allowed and still
Speaker 2: to do their own thing, and it became and for
Speaker 2: that reason, it became kind of a great comedy lab
Speaker 2: where you could try all these different types of comedy.
Speaker 3: This show is brought to you by the Forefinger Discount Patreon,
Speaker 3: where you will find over one hundred hours of bonus podcasts,
Speaker 3: including exclusive Simpsons reviews and commentaries, as well as exclusive
Speaker 3: episodes of Going Down to South Park, Tales of Futurama,
Speaker 3: Bob's Pods, Speaking of the Hill, Talking Cifold, The One
Speaker 3: About Friends, and so much more. So go ahead and
Speaker 3: join the family today at patreon dot com slash four
Speaker 3: figure discount.
Speaker 4: Josh, I wanted to ask about when you, when you
Speaker 4: and Bill were given the reins of the show and
Speaker 4: on you came on board as fans. In that regard,
Speaker 4: I'm wondering about your mindset and your objective. Whether you've
Speaker 4: got the Simpsons is great, we want to keep it
Speaker 4: as it is. We've got a vision for the Simpsons,
Speaker 4: and we want to move it in this direction. Or
Speaker 4: is it a bit of a ven diagram with those
Speaker 4: two overlap.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was more like we don't want to wreck
Speaker 2: the show. And when we two to us, the seasons
Speaker 2: three and four run by Mike and Now were the
Speaker 2: greatest seasons of any television show ever, and we really
Speaker 2: just were like, that's the Simpsons at its very best.
Speaker 2: Let's just do that. And we actually kind of scientifically
Speaker 2: broke down what they did, and they were like, Okay,
Speaker 2: they had four Homer episodes a year, they had four
Speaker 2: other family member episodes. They always had sites You're Bob,
Speaker 2: they always had it itchy and scratchy, and then they
Speaker 2: always had a couple of like experimental episodes, and we're like,
Speaker 2: let's just we're gonna imitate seasons three and four, but
Speaker 2: it will be new seasons three and four and seventy eight,
Speaker 2: and that's that's kind of was our model for it.
Speaker 3: My favorite ear of The Simpsons is literally when you
Speaker 3: were the show runner seven eight. That's why I was
Speaker 3: because I wasn't allowed to watch The Simpsons when I
Speaker 3: was really younger, So when I was allowed to watch
Speaker 3: it when it was a new episode, that's when those
Speaker 3: episodes were airing. So they're very no nostalgia for them,
Speaker 3: but I still think they're the best episodes. And what
Speaker 3: I like about them is that you guys straight away
Speaker 3: from the normal bit and you started focusing on some
Speaker 3: of the side characters, just like this one here fish
Speaker 3: called some or like trou McClay. You're giving characters that
Speaker 3: hadn't really been given any time. You're fleshing them out
Speaker 3: more and you expanded the universe of Springfield as a result.
Speaker 2: That was the thing and people didn't do There wasn't
Speaker 2: a lot of world building in shows and stuff back then.
Speaker 2: But we were like, it's already been on six seasons
Speaker 2: and we felt like love the show will go maybe
Speaker 2: ten who and so we thought like it's time, let's
Speaker 2: end on. There's so many great side characters that that
Speaker 2: kind of came to life during the years before us.
Speaker 2: So we're like, let's let's let's let's explore why Flanders
Speaker 2: is like Flanders. Let's see Chief Wiggum's family, you know,
Speaker 2: let's see Pooh's life, Let's see all those And that
Speaker 2: was that, that was the impetus for it, and that also,
Speaker 2: like that was an impetus behind twenty two short films
Speaker 2: about Springfield is let's see let's see all the other
Speaker 2: shows that are going on.
Speaker 3: I think that's what's my favorite episode of all time
Speaker 3: for that reason. I feel like you watched the episode
Speaker 3: and that is as close as you'll get to being
Speaker 3: a fly on the wall just flying around Springfield for
Speaker 3: a day. I just I particularly love that one because
Speaker 3: I love the ones that incorporate as many characters as possible.
Speaker 3: Was there ever a when you handle the reins to Scully?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 3: You gave it to Scully after that? Yeah, did you
Speaker 3: ever say to him, hey, you should do this or
Speaker 3: was it just he's your show, now you do what
Speaker 3: you want with it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. It was always like that, and that
Speaker 2: was That's kind of what's great is, first of all,
Speaker 2: Simpsons is always a big democracy, like it didn't matter
Speaker 2: like if you if you're assigned the script, then your
Speaker 2: name will be on the episode. But it always was
Speaker 2: like everybody's out for everybody else. It's very different from
Speaker 2: a lot of shows, like the opposite is SNL, where
Speaker 2: apparently writers are really competitive and always trying to kill
Speaker 2: each other's sketches, whereas in the Simpsons it's a democracy.
Speaker 2: And in fact, this went on our very first day,
Speaker 2: like Mike and Now told us there's like a couple
Speaker 2: of rules, and then we always live by these rules,
Speaker 2: and then people like us or like Greg Daniels who's
Speaker 2: gone on to create great shows, carry those rules with
Speaker 2: them and like what rule number one is you leave
Speaker 2: your ego at the door. And it's just like it
Speaker 2: doesn't matter if you say the great joke or somebody
Speaker 2: else it's all for the joke ord the story itself.
Speaker 2: And also never say no to an idea. That's the
Speaker 2: job of the person running the room. So you don't
Speaker 2: like if someone pitches a joke or an idea you
Speaker 2: don't like, you don't go I don't like that, or
Speaker 2: that's not good. You either stay silent or you pitch
Speaker 2: a better one and let the room runner do it.
Speaker 2: And so it just creates a much more free flowing,
Speaker 2: positive atmosphere in the room. And it's like we were
Speaker 2: like because we had never been on a sitcom before,
Speaker 2: so we didn't know, but there are people like Scully
Speaker 2: had a lot of experience in in more mainstream sitcoms,
Speaker 2: so he he came in knowing what was good and
Speaker 2: bad about them, and he also like it's also like
Speaker 2: everybody was always really friendly on the show. It's just
Speaker 2: a bunch of nerds. So it's like it had a
Speaker 2: much more cohesive, supportive atmosphere than other sitcoms where he
Speaker 2: got a lot of like loud assholes.
Speaker 4: Do you think that's evident in the show itself. Do
Speaker 4: you think the tone of the show?
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, because it was And this is the thing
Speaker 2: that that can't sort of came from both. Came a
Speaker 2: lot from Matt and a lot from Jim Brooks and
Speaker 2: a lot from Sam. And also all the people were
Speaker 2: kind harder. It's like emotion, The emotion always have to
Speaker 2: be real, even if it's a crazy circumstance. The characters
Speaker 2: have to act and respond in realistically emotional ways. And
Speaker 2: that's part of what made the show so great is
Speaker 2: a lot of times it was more emotionally real than
Speaker 2: other live action sitcoms, and I think that show still
Speaker 2: maintains it. And it's also why I think part of
Speaker 2: what was so appealing is there's an essential kindness and
Speaker 2: sweetness to it. And we also found that the more
Speaker 2: emotionally hooked in someone was to an episode, the more
Speaker 2: they liked the jokes. Anyway.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know if we want to jump ahead
Speaker 4: to talking about a Phish coal sell. Yeah, but I
Speaker 4: mean that's really evident in this episode. I mean, this
Speaker 4: is an episode that could be it could have a
Speaker 4: really cold and cruel and cynical outlook, but it's really
Speaker 4: sort of emotionally aware and mature in so many ways.
Speaker 4: I mean, even the Indians kind of like, I mean,
Speaker 4: try mcclus kind of kind of a hell. He's very
Speaker 4: much a Haal in this, but he's also a guy.
Speaker 3: I feel sorry for him.
Speaker 4: He's trapped in his own.
Speaker 2: Yeah. That's one thing is I think we're we're very
Speaker 2: good at is feeling for whichever character you're the story
Speaker 2: is swirling around, and in this case, it's both Troy
Speaker 2: and Sma. But I hadn't. I don't watched the episode
Speaker 2: in a long time, and I watched it this morning
Speaker 2: and I was struck by, like how that ending is
Speaker 2: really both It's really realistic and it feels like they're
Speaker 2: even though they're crazy characters, they kind of made their
Speaker 2: right adult decision. And it's it's very bitter sweet and
Speaker 2: that I mean, that's that's something that was always appealing
Speaker 2: about the show, even when we were just fans as
Speaker 2: there is that it's kind of like bittersweet.
Speaker 3: Well, the takeaway I took from that ending was particularly
Speaker 3: the shot of McClue just looking at the window the
Speaker 3: sad music's plaining like he's not only watching Salma walk away,
Speaker 3: but I'm essentially watching his career walk away with her.
Speaker 3: You know, he's walking yeah without her, I've got no career,
Speaker 3: Like this was my last chance not happening anymore. But
Speaker 3: also just prior to that, when she's saying I'm leaving,
Speaker 3: you could have easily taken a darker tone and gone,
Speaker 3: nor were You're not because I need you you You're
Speaker 3: staying here. But no, he lets her go.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's it. I can't I can't remember whose
Speaker 2: idea that was. The idea about the fishes was came
Speaker 2: from Jim.
Speaker 3: Brooks, Yeah, which.
Speaker 2: Is brilliant because we're like, we need him to have
Speaker 2: some sort of like weird rumored set kink or sexual fetish,
Speaker 2: but it can't be it can't be anything awful because
Speaker 2: kids are watching. But so the fish thing is brilliant
Speaker 2: because it's left up to your own devian mind what
Speaker 2: what's going on?
Speaker 3: Because you're not actually implying that he's sleeping with fish.
Speaker 3: But I mean, although fat Tony kind of says.
Speaker 2: That it's it's delightfully, it's delight it's the whole time,
Speaker 2: it's delightfully dancing around it.
Speaker 3: I remember my mom was not a fan of it.
Speaker 3: My mom was like, what is this? What is this
Speaker 3: rock you're watching?
Speaker 4: And also is the fat Tony gag it is bout
Speaker 4: Tony's appearance only so you can do this sleep with
Speaker 4: the Fishes gag.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, yes, That's what's so great about the Simpsons
Speaker 2: is you have all these side characters. You know, Oh,
Speaker 2: we need like a mafia style, so we got fat Tony. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And also what I will see. What I really like
Speaker 2: about this episode is up until this episode, Troy McClure
Speaker 2: was just kind of like a one note joke character,
Speaker 2: and we were like, he's there living his life. Let's
Speaker 2: see what it's like. And it was our chance to
Speaker 2: do kind of like sad Hollywood lives.
Speaker 4: It's it's what I wanted to talk about because we
Speaker 4: rewatching this episode. Listeners of our show will know that
Speaker 4: one of my favorite movies is Once upon a Time
Speaker 4: in Hollywood, particularly Rick Dalton and Terry mcclu is just
Speaker 4: an absolute Rick Dalton, you know, in terms of like
Speaker 4: just the body of work that he's got, the ego
Speaker 4: that he has. You know, he's constantly sort of got
Speaker 4: his eye out for the main chance, even though he
Speaker 4: knows his careers on the way, and so yeah, having
Speaker 4: this opportunity to flesh him out and give him a
Speaker 4: whole life in the space of a a half hour episode.
Speaker 4: I think it's just brilliant and also something I wanted
Speaker 4: to say is want to ask was and if I'm wrong,
Speaker 4: please just don't disabuse my notion. There was a whiteboard
Speaker 4: in Simpson's HQ that is just all you may know
Speaker 4: me from these titles.
Speaker 2: No, those were so hard that when somebody came up
Speaker 2: of it, we used it like those were like the
Speaker 2: Troy mcclurr move, coming off a good Troy mccurr movie,
Speaker 2: and this one episodes full of them is one of
Speaker 2: the hardest Simpson's tax So the moment you have a
Speaker 2: good one, it's going in the show. There's no there's
Speaker 2: a whiteboard of like still episodes that we wanted to do,
Speaker 2: but there was no joke, Joe, all good jokes were
Speaker 2: used instantly.
Speaker 3: I just thought, it's like Alice through the windshield glasses
Speaker 3: one from a previous episode. But some of it are
Speaker 3: so cruel, but they're so funny.
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's like the the towel, the what is
Speaker 2: it the towel with with Larry.
Speaker 4: The blinding of lens, But yeah, that's.
Speaker 2: Real chalitable again, kid got kinded with horror of horse plea.
Speaker 4: But I love that it's that, but that you might
Speaker 4: know me from or you might remember me from is
Speaker 4: just a runner all through. It's not necessarily about you
Speaker 4: might remembery from such films, you might remember from this
Speaker 4: date last night or what. Yeah, the fact that it
Speaker 4: becomes that running gag I.
Speaker 3: Think part of his every day vernacular.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's yeah, I love that too.
Speaker 4: Gold standard comedy writing as far as I'm concerned.
Speaker 3: But what I love about this episode too is it's
Speaker 3: a bittersweet because as a diehard Simpsons fan, you love
Speaker 3: it because it wasn't long after this that we tragically
Speaker 3: lost or Phil Harton was taken from us. So I'm
Speaker 3: just so I'm appreciative that this episode exists because you know,
Speaker 3: had you not done this, we might now never have
Speaker 3: got it, you know, So the fact that you were
Speaker 3: able to recognize, let's do it now, and the fact
Speaker 3: that you did it, and it's such a great episode
Speaker 3: as well, and it really it pays tribute to Troy McCay.
Speaker 3: It mocks him, but it also pays love to him
Speaker 3: as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I love about the Simpsons is particularly good.
Speaker 2: It both makes fun of but loves every single character.
Speaker 2: But we did it. Also one of one of the
Speaker 2: reasons we did it too is is Bill Hartman is
Speaker 2: like the Simpson's secret weapon, is he is somebody who
Speaker 2: he would make straight lines funny. So we knew, like
Speaker 2: we always wanted to work him into episodes because we
Speaker 2: knew it would be a guaranteed laugh and in this
Speaker 2: episode because he makes every single line funny and he's
Speaker 2: just like, there's very there are very few people on
Speaker 2: earth who could who could do that, and but but
Speaker 2: Phil was one of them.
Speaker 4: There's a bit I think when he first made Selm
Speaker 4: when he says as an actor, I depend on my
Speaker 4: remarkable looks. I've written that nobody did insincerity more sincerely
Speaker 4: than Phil Hartman.
Speaker 2: Yeah he would. Yeah, that's a real that's a real craft.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, can you just give us five ten
Speaker 4: twenty minutes on Phil Hartman just like what it was
Speaker 4: worked like to work with the guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a both both he and Kelsey Grammer, who
Speaker 2: they both when they would come in and we would
Speaker 2: record them, everybody kind of like pepped up and were
Speaker 2: excited because they were both both of them were incredibly
Speaker 2: kind people, like just they you would not think that
Speaker 2: they were TV stars like they would. They would be
Speaker 2: people like, Oh, I wish I could hang out with them.
Speaker 2: They're just like really down to earth, no ego, but
Speaker 2: also just really funny and also gung ho for doing
Speaker 2: Like some actors can be difficult, but like Phil, Phil
Speaker 2: would do whatever you put in front of him, and
Speaker 2: he'd also bring a lot of times it'd bring a
Speaker 2: really weird spin to it. Like we knew, like, even
Speaker 2: if it's a straight line, okay, he's gonna do something
Speaker 2: funny with it. And and so we we just always
Speaker 2: wanted to like Bart versus Australia, we intentionally wanted him
Speaker 2: as the US embassy guy because we knew, like that's
Speaker 2: like making a funny a funny preppy state department guy
Speaker 2: is hard to do, but we're like, Phil's going to
Speaker 2: do it. So we just we just he was one
Speaker 2: of our very favorite people to work work into an episode.
Speaker 3: It's been it's been a story at that you were
Speaker 3: going to work on potentially a live action yeah, for
Speaker 3: mcclu a movie. And you've mentioned to me that you
Speaker 3: once discussed this with Phil. I need to hear about it.
Speaker 2: Yes, we discussed it a number of times with Phil,
Speaker 2: and it did it like it didn't get beyond talk
Speaker 2: before he was tragically hurdering. And but what happened is
Speaker 2: we would we were friends with people from the show
Speaker 2: News Radio and so, and I do not I don't
Speaker 2: the thing that I don't remember if this was while
Speaker 2: Bill and I were still running the show or after
Speaker 2: we had left, but the talk of it started. We'd
Speaker 2: go to so we go to news radio parties and
Speaker 2: Phil would see us and it's like, Oh, it's a
Speaker 2: Simpsons friends and so we're talking and that's I know.
Speaker 2: It was at one of us parties where we first said,
Speaker 2: I want to do a live action Troy McClure movie.
Speaker 2: And we were like, that is brilliant. That's so good
Speaker 2: because it's like in a lot of like the voiceover
Speaker 2: actors may or may not in real life be able
Speaker 2: to play their characters, but Phil, it could. It's exactly
Speaker 2: Troy McClure, you know. And so a live action Troy
Speaker 2: McClure movie would just be brilliant where you could see
Speaker 2: live action clips of his past movies. But he also
Speaker 2: would have been having some sort of Troy McClure detective
Speaker 2: or some sort of adventure that would be the true
Speaker 2: line of a story and we and so we saw
Speaker 2: a number of parties went on where that's all like
Speaker 2: we would talk about, is we got to do this
Speaker 2: Troy McClure movie, but then it then he got killed
Speaker 2: and that that was that.
Speaker 4: I have never been more excited for a project that
Speaker 4: could have been and more sad that it never happened.
Speaker 4: That I'm, yeah, holy shit, that would have been my
Speaker 4: favorite movie of all time.
Speaker 2: Because it was also like that would have been like
Speaker 2: could have been like the first Simpsons movie. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: it would have been. And it's also like such it's
Speaker 2: such a kind of like a brilliantly left field idea
Speaker 2: and I think it would have really worked.
Speaker 3: So was he was he excited for the project then?
Speaker 2: Yeah, but again it was like it never got it never.
Speaker 3: Got beyond just talk we should do this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like we it never got to like, Okay,
Speaker 2: let's let's let's write it out, let's bring it to
Speaker 2: Jim Brooks and Matt and see and all that. It
Speaker 2: was just it was just talk, but it short of
Speaker 2: felt like it it could have led to something.
Speaker 4: But even as an elevator pitch, it works because because
Speaker 4: of Hartman, because he mean he Yeah, he had sort
Speaker 4: of matinee idolish good looks but also slightly gone to see.
Speaker 4: But he was also such a chameleon that you could
Speaker 4: see him playing all these different roles as Troy McClure
Speaker 4: in real life.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And it was also an era of the nineties
Speaker 2: of those type of really great crazy comedies. Yeah, so
Speaker 2: it really could have worked.
Speaker 3: I'm so glad that. I'm so glad at least we got. Yeah,
Speaker 3: we got this episode that we because this was almost
Speaker 3: it was a showcase for Teum mcclub, but it was
Speaker 3: a showcase for Phil Hartman as well. Yeah, because he's characters.
Speaker 3: It'd been it never really been the main character of
Speaker 3: an episode yet. I don't think. I mean he was
Speaker 3: Tom because Tom Cruise turned down that role. I think
Speaker 3: of season three, season four episode, and he'd been Trom
Speaker 3: McClure and loneld hats. But this is the first time
Speaker 3: it was really about a Phil Hartman guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well that was like that was that was part
Speaker 2: of our our goal for these seasons is let's see
Speaker 2: a Troy McClure episode, let's see a Need Flanders episode.
Speaker 2: And all these episodes were like the Simpsons are kind
Speaker 2: of involved, but it's like it's no, it's gonna be
Speaker 2: about or mill House's parents, for example. It's not there one.
Speaker 2: It's like, let's see the lives of these other people
Speaker 2: in Springfield.
Speaker 4: It's smart on so many levels because it keeps the
Speaker 4: audience engaged because like, oh, there's a wider world outside
Speaker 4: of Evergreen terrorists. But it's also great for the for
Speaker 4: the creative stuff as well, because it's like we get
Speaker 4: to flex all these different muscles.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and and honestly too, we really thought the show
Speaker 2: would go for like ten years and then be done,
Speaker 2: and we're like, so this is we got to do
Speaker 2: it now because the show might not exist in a
Speaker 2: couple years, So let's explore all these characters while we can.
Speaker 3: Bill has said to us that he never left an
Speaker 3: episode on an idea on the table. Everything he wanted
Speaker 3: to do he did. Do you truly believe that, Oh,
Speaker 3: there were there ideas that you kind of wish. I
Speaker 3: wish we had like twenty four besides for that season.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Now I think it's like we running the show
Speaker 2: is so exhausting that like, by the end of season eight,
Speaker 2: we're like, oh, I can't wait to give it to
Speaker 2: somebody else. But I think, like, in hindsight, I'm like,
Speaker 2: there's so many more. Yeah, we could have done, but
Speaker 2: at the time we're like, we've done everything. We can't
Speaker 2: do no more.
Speaker 3: You know, how long did it take for you to
Speaker 3: part with The Simpsons? Did you still watch it after
Speaker 3: you left or once you once you were gone? Was
Speaker 3: that I can't see what they're doing to my baby anymore?
Speaker 2: Or it's more like we couldn't right when we left.
Speaker 2: It was more like we couldn't do we still I
Speaker 2: still watch, but it was more like I know how
Speaker 2: the sausage is made, and I couldn't separate that from
Speaker 2: like going like, oh, that much at joke must have
Speaker 2: taken a long time to get or like, oh, I
Speaker 2: could see why they did this, and so I couldn't
Speaker 2: just enjoy it on its face value for the longest time.
Speaker 2: And it wasn't until I have kids who are now
Speaker 2: who are now grown in their twenties. But it wasn't
Speaker 2: until my kids started watching the show. But I could
Speaker 2: be like, I've been away from it long enough that
Speaker 2: now I can just enjoy it as a fan.
Speaker 3: Well, the Simpsons is kind of having a bit of
Speaker 3: a resurgence in recent times, and I think that's a
Speaker 3: lot of it is it's on Disney, plus it's just
Speaker 3: so easily accessible now. But I think a lot of
Speaker 3: kids who grew up on the era you went on
Speaker 3: the show who may have sort of turned off postseason
Speaker 3: ten or whatever and hadn't watched the show for a
Speaker 3: long time, but their kids are now getting they're having kids,
Speaker 3: and their kids are now watching the Simpsons, and they're
Speaker 3: going back and revisiting The Simpsons as a result. But
Speaker 3: I find I've got a seven and a five year old,
Speaker 3: and they enjoy the new episodes. They really like them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's great. The thing is that there's still
Speaker 2: like new Simpsons gets a bad rap because there's still
Speaker 2: episodes that are would be regarded as a classic if
Speaker 2: they were on in those years. And it's just the
Speaker 2: thing I think people have come to say. But it's
Speaker 2: also like there now there are writers on The Simpsons
Speaker 2: who were kids when we were doing our episodes, who
Speaker 2: grew up on it. And that's I have a whole
Speaker 2: theory of comedy writers is that we like people. I'm
Speaker 2: like gen X, I'm almost I'm almost sixty, and we
Speaker 2: grew up on kind of crummy sitcoms like in the
Speaker 2: eighties and stuff like Mad Magazine and then some brilliant
Speaker 2: stuff like SETV and stuff like that, but we had
Speaker 2: a much smaller area of like really great, truly great
Speaker 2: comedy shows. But people who are kids in the nineties,
Speaker 2: they didn't just have The Simpsons, and they had South Park,
Speaker 2: and they had Seinfeld and they had all these great
Speaker 2: really mister Show and all these other truly funny things.
Speaker 2: So there, I believe that the young comedy writers are
Speaker 2: funnier and also more emotionally in touch than us older
Speaker 2: writers because they grew up with better stuff and also
Speaker 2: they grew up with stuff that was starting to be
Speaker 2: like emotionally realistic and stuff, so they're much better grounded.
Speaker 2: But I think they also have better senses of humor
Speaker 2: because of that, and like some of those writers now
Speaker 2: are the young writers and as Simpsons, And it's also
Speaker 2: people like Matt Selman is still like he still has
Speaker 2: the spirit of like I'm going to try something new. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I want to try something experimental and see and I
Speaker 2: like that.
Speaker 3: I feel like he's the guy that carries on the
Speaker 3: twenty two short films of Bett Springfield Torch. You know,
Speaker 3: he does the trilogy of Aaron. You watched the newer seasons,
Speaker 3: and there's a lot more of those I call them
Speaker 3: format bending episodes, but it's a lot more of those
Speaker 3: episodes in recent years. I think since Matt's taken more
Speaker 3: of the charge, he's willing to explore and experiment.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's like A really good example is the duff
Speaker 2: Man and his Daughter episode, which is a total side
Speaker 2: character but it's brilliantly emotional and hilarious and the same thing.
Speaker 2: So there's yeah, so I think that I think the
Speaker 2: tor Torches are being still carried.
Speaker 3: This show is brought to you by the four Finger
Speaker 3: Discount Patreon, where you will find over one hundred hours
Speaker 3: of bonus podcasts, including exclusive Simpsons reviews and commentaries, as
Speaker 3: well as exclusive episodes of Going Down to South Park,
Speaker 3: Tales of Futurama, Bob's Pods, Speaking of the Hill, Talking Sifould,
Speaker 3: the One About Friends, and so much more. So go
Speaker 3: ahead and join the family today at patreon dot com
Speaker 3: slash four finger Discount. Although sometimes we've found we're up
Speaker 3: to season twenty one now with the shows we've been
Speaker 3: going through, we still go back in movies at the
Speaker 3: classic slot we have with you here, but we find
Speaker 3: it sometimes those side characters didn't need to be fleshed out, Like,
Speaker 3: for example, there's a Comic Book Guy episode where you
Speaker 3: find out his real name and he starts marry I
Speaker 3: starts dating Skinner's mum, and he's just kind of like,
Speaker 3: I don't think Comic Book Guy needed this much information.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I really as like an all sour puss. I
Speaker 2: didn't like that they gave him a name because we
Speaker 2: always just like like, we always just like he's comic
Speaker 2: book guys. So it's true like some like some people
Speaker 2: you don't you don't want.
Speaker 3: To know, yeah, exactly. And Gil was another one. They
Speaker 3: did an episode called what was It Killed Gill? Volumes
Speaker 3: one and two or something where he moved in with
Speaker 3: the Simpsons, and we all love Gill, you know, because
Speaker 3: he's always yeah gotten, and he's you know, nothing goes
Speaker 3: right for the guy. But then when he's in the
Speaker 3: Simpsons has in that episode, he's a real moocha and
Speaker 3: he's really he's horrible to people, and you lose sympathy
Speaker 3: for him, and I'm gone, why did you make me
Speaker 3: dislike this character? That's it just didn't seem to work.
Speaker 3: So sometimes fleshing out these characters isn't necessary.
Speaker 2: Yeah you have to, Yeah, you have to. I think
Speaker 2: they have to be and I don't really thought about us.
Speaker 2: They have to be characters that are like really emotionally loaded.
Speaker 2: So like, you know, Troy McClure kind of has some
Speaker 2: weird sadness in his life or some some weirdness in
Speaker 2: his life, or like Ned Flanders, you really you want
Speaker 2: to know why he's like that. But some characters are
Speaker 2: just so one note that it's just like, just leave
Speaker 2: him be one note.
Speaker 3: Did you ever have ideas for a Linel Hot's episode?
Speaker 2: No, No, because I think I think Troy McClure felt
Speaker 2: like the richer Phil Hartman character, which is like like
Speaker 2: Lionel Huts really does. I'm sure there's a good Lionel
Speaker 2: Huts story out there, but I don't. I don't know it.
Speaker 4: Give him like an emotionally loaded legal drama like the
Speaker 4: Verdict or something where he's got a you know, like
Speaker 4: a civil action or something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I but he's had something that has passed, some
Speaker 2: legal thing that that drove him to be a lawyer.
Speaker 2: So there's something there.
Speaker 4: But you're gonna have a whole betterical soul series about
Speaker 4: Lionel lot.
Speaker 3: I think there's a there's betterical huts. But can we
Speaker 3: talk about Jeff Golblum. So he stars in MacArthur Parker
Speaker 3: in this episode here. I kind of really interesting. You
Speaker 3: were saying in the commentary that and he couldn't even
Speaker 3: remember doing this, but then until you reminded him, was yeah,
Speaker 3: made him do it twice because he spoke in his
Speaker 3: usual sort of slowish way. He's he's unique brand of comedy.
Speaker 3: But because McClure and Salma such slow speakers, the episode
Speaker 3: was just too long. The kind of had too many gags.
Speaker 3: So you literally had to say, of Jeff, can you
Speaker 3: do it again? And do it faster? Which is why
Speaker 3: it took me a while to actually pick up on
Speaker 3: this appearance because he's not speaking long he would normally speak.
Speaker 3: He is speaking a lot faster.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I I forgot about that till you
Speaker 2: reminded me. Because I was listening to it this morning.
Speaker 2: I was like, that's a really fast read, and he's like, toy,
Speaker 2: it's macfforin Parker, And I was like, why is he
Speaker 2: talking so fast? Because we told him to because we
Speaker 2: also we knew that was the thing, like when you
Speaker 2: do an episode around certain characters. We knew Patty and
Speaker 2: Selma were slow talkers, just like like Marge obviously, and
Speaker 2: Toy McClure is. And so that's also like why there's
Speaker 2: not like a real bet story because there's no time,
Speaker 2: but everybody else gotta speak quickly because of that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I forgot about that. And Jeff Goldblum, as we said,
Speaker 2: I think we said it in contary, was one of
Speaker 2: our favorite guest stars because he was so nice. He
Speaker 2: he and Peter Frampton and Will Dafoe were the nicest
Speaker 2: people that we ever had. And I'll tell you, I
Speaker 2: think I told the story on the commentary. But when
Speaker 2: we recorded Jeff Goldbloom, we were doing that. We were
Speaker 2: on the Fox lot, but Jim Brooks's company, Gracie Films,
Speaker 2: is on the Sony Law So a lot of times
Speaker 2: we record guest stars there just because they had more
Speaker 2: recording studios. And so we were recording Jeff Goldblum, and
Speaker 2: it's his little studio and they are like probably like
Speaker 2: five other Simpsons people there, and Jeff Goldbloom came in
Speaker 2: and he went to every single person in the room
Speaker 2: and sat with them and talked to them for like
Speaker 2: five minutes and said like, Hi, I'm Jeff. Who are you?
Speaker 2: Tell me about you? And he was just like really
Speaker 2: insanely yeah, Like you felt like wow, Jeff Goldblum was
Speaker 2: talking to me. And then he was like, Oh, I'm
Speaker 2: doing this movie about an alien invasion. It's called an
Speaker 2: Independence Day and stuff like that. But he was just
Speaker 2: so friendly, like he made it was our job to
Speaker 2: make the actors feel comfortable, but he went around making
Speaker 2: everybody else feel comfortable, and so it's just like a
Speaker 2: lovely time. So I think we felt bad, but we
Speaker 2: knew we didn't feel. It wasn't hard for us to
Speaker 2: ask him to do it again, just because he was
Speaker 2: so nice and amenable to everything.
Speaker 4: It does my heart good to hear that Goldbloom is
Speaker 4: actually a bit of a Manchel though, But yeah, he
Speaker 4: said that he's really the only man who could give
Speaker 4: Phil Hartman a run for his Smami money.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he was a He was a really good
Speaker 2: choice for that agent. I don't think we had any
Speaker 2: other choices.
Speaker 3: How often did you write guest appearances or characters with
Speaker 3: a special guest in mind? Or did you write them
Speaker 3: and then go, let's just get this guy because he'd
Speaker 3: fit that character.
Speaker 2: That's yeah. For MacArthur Parker, I think I think you
Speaker 2: first came up with the character and then like Jeff
Speaker 2: Goldwum would be great. But other character there are things
Speaker 2: like obviously like Rodney Dangerfield, that whole episode was written
Speaker 2: under the pretense that it's going to be Rodney Dainshefield
Speaker 2: and if we don't get him, we can't do the episode.
Speaker 2: And but but usually it was we there was a
Speaker 2: side character, and we were like, first we kind of
Speaker 2: go down the list of like can you know, can
Speaker 2: Hank or Harry do this? Or or Dan and and
Speaker 2: some but we could tell when it was like a
Speaker 2: special role like Lisa versus Malibu Stacy, we knew we
Speaker 2: had to get some really great guest star.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, I just think in particular it's just Macathla Parker.
Speaker 3: This is fantastic. But there's one part here where he
Speaker 3: does do the Goblain esque dialogue where he goes and
Speaker 3: your and the wife, and just the way he says
Speaker 3: it that that's Goblin right there, right, Betsy.
Speaker 2: He's another personect Phil Harp, who will give spins to
Speaker 2: a line that you could never predict, but are so
Speaker 2: delightfully gold bloomby that you like, you know, you like him.
Speaker 3: But it's not even like a spin that Hartman puts
Speaker 3: on things. Sometimes it's just the way he like, it's
Speaker 3: just the way he says that. So I particularly love
Speaker 3: the way when he says so. Obviously the script must
Speaker 3: have say, McClure puts on glasses to read Salma's name,
Speaker 3: so he goes miss Bouvier the way. That's the way
Speaker 3: you can always imagine, you can visualize he's putting on
Speaker 3: glasses as he's saying that line. It's it's incredible.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, for him, it's like sometimes you want to
Speaker 2: put stage stage directions that says, you know, would say
Speaker 2: like smart me or nervous or whatever, But with Phil
Speaker 2: you kind of you didn't need to, and he didn't
Speaker 2: want to give direction because he kind of wanted him
Speaker 2: to do his own thing.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well, let's talk about Stop the Planet of the Apes.
Speaker 3: I want to get off because that is truly iconic and,
Speaker 3: in my opinion, could be a genuine Broadway musical. It's
Speaker 3: a shame that we're never going to get that as
Speaker 3: a result of Phil Hartmon Nolonger being with us. But
Speaker 3: take us back to how did that all come together?
Speaker 3: Because I think in the commentary, Bill says, I went
Speaker 3: to the bathroom and came back and it was already
Speaker 3: done or something like that.
Speaker 2: So that's basically it's like Bill Bill had as I said,
Speaker 2: like we had to split duties because it was so
Speaker 2: never ending amount of work, and so he was off
Speaker 2: doing something and I was like we would read. Usually
Speaker 2: a lot of times you'd have two rooms going and
Speaker 2: I'd run one and he'd run the other. But this
Speaker 2: day he had he had to go record somebody or
Speaker 2: edit something, and so I was running the room. And
Speaker 2: we knew Troy, we wanted Troy to be in a
Speaker 2: musical or something. We knew it had to be some
Speaker 2: sort of special show within the show. But that was it.
Speaker 2: And then it was I remember as Steve Hopkins, he said,
Speaker 2: what if we did planet a the Apes a musical?
Speaker 2: And there was a big pause where you couldn't tell
Speaker 2: if people are thinking, either this is really stupid or
Speaker 2: it's really brilliant. But like I had learned fun like
Speaker 2: learning from Mike and Alis, like you give something a chance,
Speaker 2: even if it sounds like the worst idea, dumbest idea
Speaker 2: in the world, give it at least like twenty minutes.
Speaker 2: And I was like, so, like, let's this. This could
Speaker 2: be really good or could beg insane or both, And
Speaker 2: so we just started talking about it and the ideas
Speaker 2: started to come. But there's a key moment, which is
Speaker 2: when David Cohen pitched a line I hate every apice
Speaker 2: from Chipen eight to Chimpanzee, which I believe it's not
Speaker 2: only the funniest Simpsons line ever, it's the funniest line
Speaker 2: ever uttered by a human. And that was like, that
Speaker 2: was like, what was so great about the Simpsons room?
Speaker 2: And there could be not in this case, but there
Speaker 2: would be moments like we're trying to think of a
Speaker 2: funny sign or whatever. It'd be twenty minutes of silence
Speaker 2: and people in the room just going like this, like
Speaker 2: deep in thought. But once he pitched that line, it
Speaker 2: was so inspirational and funny that everybody got to the
Speaker 2: top of their game and we're pitching funny things left
Speaker 2: and right. And so we mapped out and wrote the
Speaker 2: entire musical in like two to three hours that afternoon,
Speaker 2: and when Bill came back, I remember or he remembers.
Speaker 2: People go like you gotta hear this, you got to
Speaker 2: hear this, or hear this line. And it was like
Speaker 2: we it was, it was fully formed and it just
Speaker 2: it just needed the like music, and it was like
Speaker 2: different people could chrip. We did different things that in
Speaker 2: other rooms people would have just shot down, like like
Speaker 2: George Meyer was like, what if we do these Vodeville
Speaker 2: bits in between? Like where can I play the piano?
Speaker 2: Why couldn't before? Which is just that it's the hackiest
Speaker 2: literally it's an old Vodville style joke. But we're like,
Speaker 2: what if we work in these little Vaudeville routines in between? Yeah,
Speaker 2: let's do that. What if we did did the apes
Speaker 2: were breakdancing? Yeah, let's do that. Because part of it
Speaker 2: was also based on those the cheesy musicals of a time,
Speaker 2: like like Cats and that whatever, that roller skating musical
Speaker 2: Wash Starlight Express. Yeah, that the super cheesy things. But
Speaker 2: it was just like it was a combination of like
Speaker 2: five different insane things that all really work together and people.
Speaker 2: That was a case where the room was inspiring each
Speaker 2: other and it just like that that was a rarity,
Speaker 2: but when it happened, great things came from it.
Speaker 4: I'm so glad you said that, just because I mean,
Speaker 4: and this is out to dismiss the the expertise and
Speaker 4: the effort of the Simpsons writing stife, but I mean,
Speaker 4: there are some gags that feel like you can really
Speaker 4: see the effort that went into it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's like that's the thing is too. I
Speaker 2: found always in writing that the best things are that
Speaker 2: things that just come to it, and you can feel
Speaker 2: when something is labored over, and it's just like, because
Speaker 2: comedy and jokes are such a weird, subconscious or unconscious
Speaker 2: reaction to things, like I think it has to it
Speaker 2: has comes from a deep, weird impulse as opposed to
Speaker 2: some like really like laboring over it. And we always
Speaker 2: found like the things that were written quickest actually are
Speaker 2: the things that people like the best.
Speaker 4: These feel like jugs that always existed that were just
Speaker 4: sort of you know, floating around in the ether and
Speaker 4: just gotta just gotta grab. I mean the fact that
Speaker 4: doctor Zias has the same amount of syllables as Emmadias,
Speaker 4: so you can just yah.
Speaker 2: That was that was my pitch. That was my pitch
Speaker 2: because we me and Bill and actually our friend Paul
Speaker 2: from News radio. We were obsessed with that song when
Speaker 2: it came out, and we're always making jokes and just
Speaker 2: saying things like thank you Amedeis and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: So I just kissed that. I think I said thank
Speaker 2: you doctors A. It's not even to help me, doctor Zayas.
Speaker 2: But then people were like, yeah, that's perfect for like
Speaker 2: the main song.
Speaker 3: Did you I always keep thinking motions going did I
Speaker 3: write a full music? When we're saying bits of it,
Speaker 3: like did you write a full did you write full songs?
Speaker 3: Or what we saw as what you write?
Speaker 2: The whole thing was written out, and at a certain
Speaker 2: point I was like, wait a minute, wait a minute,
Speaker 2: let's get this and let's get that. And you could
Speaker 2: it like you said, like they sort of came out
Speaker 2: of an ether. And there's a theory I have, like
Speaker 2: it's called like a joke radar. It's all all great,
Speaker 2: All jokes are out there. You just have to pinpoint
Speaker 2: it and find the right thing. And it was this
Speaker 2: was just a question of fitting the vaudeville routine with
Speaker 2: the break dancing with doctor Zaais and fitting it all
Speaker 2: together and and saying this is gonna work, by God,
Speaker 2: and than it did.
Speaker 4: And like him I love legitimate theater. So the fact
Speaker 4: that it closes out with I love you doctors, it's like, oh,
Speaker 4: I think I'm saying enough actual musical theater. They sort
Speaker 4: of closed that with a lot like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that was based that one. It's based more
Speaker 2: on more classic musicals like Oklahoma or whatever, where the
Speaker 2: two characters are I love you, and it's just like, okay,
Speaker 2: so let's put that in.
Speaker 3: So what you're saying is somewhere out there there's a
Speaker 3: piece of paper or there's the script that has a
Speaker 3: full stop plan the fs want to get off script.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's whatever that whatever that rewrite was, it's like,
Speaker 2: that's it. You could see from whatever the version was before.
Speaker 2: I don't even remember what was in its place, if
Speaker 2: it was a musical or what it was, but you
Speaker 2: would see it jumps from that to the entire musical.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know that we changed any
Speaker 2: lines or ever from it. All just fit in a
Speaker 2: perfect package. And also I had I had never seen
Speaker 2: part of a I think to give myself some credit
Speaker 2: is I had never seen Planet of the Apes, so
Speaker 2: I only knew the main things, so I wasn't ruined
Speaker 2: my mind wasn't clouded with the whole movie and Howard
Speaker 2: gonna parody the whole movie because I only knew I
Speaker 2: only knew it was Earth all along. I only knew
Speaker 2: the Statue of Liberty. I only knew Charlton Heston was
Speaker 2: like a bad, overblown actor, and I knew doctor Sais
Speaker 2: and a couple of her names. So I was like,
Speaker 2: I was happy to like ruin it because I hadn't
Speaker 2: seen it.
Speaker 3: Because my daughter, she's just turned five, but I sometimes
Speaker 3: put the Simpsons songs on the carline we're listening because
Speaker 3: on Spotify now, and my daughter always asks Zaia's song
Speaker 3: zaias song. She loves it, like kids love the music.
Speaker 2: It's really it's really happy. You don't have to know
Speaker 2: about the movie or anything. It's like a really happy,
Speaker 2: fun song.
Speaker 4: Yeah. It's also got my favorite jogs, not necessarily the
Speaker 4: musical itself, but I mean, I love of so much
Speaker 4: in this episode. But at the very end, when when
Speaker 4: Dromicle is sort of giving his very self serving speech
Speaker 4: and take it bout sugar bait and you're getting something
Speaker 4: size down in front.
Speaker 2: I love that show that. It's also like there's some
Speaker 2: there's some things that are such good premises that then
Speaker 2: jokes come to them, like down in Front and all that,
Speaker 2: And I love legitimate theater. It's just like it's so
Speaker 2: it's such a meaty premise that you just want to
Speaker 2: come up with jokes for it.
Speaker 3: I will say, that's funny that you said you hadn't
Speaker 3: say a Planet of the APPEs because I hadn't say
Speaker 3: it as a kid e though, so you can imagine
Speaker 3: my disappointment a high Planet of the APPEs and it
Speaker 3: wasn't this musical.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what a lot of people say about a
Speaker 2: lot of Simpsons things as they see the movie parody
Speaker 2: before they ever saw the movie. And that was similar
Speaker 2: for me of like my genition in reading Mad magazine,
Speaker 2: where I know a lot of movies and TV shows
Speaker 2: from the sixties and seventies first from the Mad parody
Speaker 2: before I ever saw the actual thing.
Speaker 4: Josh, I'm generation X as well, and I mean I
Speaker 4: sort of wanted to go to that for our gen
Speaker 4: in terms of we watched a lot of good stuff,
Speaker 4: but we absorbed a lot of good culture. But because
Speaker 4: of the I guess limitations that we had in terms
Speaker 4: of like only three or four TV channels and only
Speaker 4: so many, only so much stuff that was available. You
Speaker 4: also were exposed to a lot of bad stuff, and
Speaker 4: you were able to recognize what was not good. It's like,
Speaker 4: this could be good if I did this to it,
Speaker 4: you know, if I took it. Yeah, think and put
Speaker 4: a clock in it. So yeah, I mean I think
Speaker 4: that's Yeah. A lot of what makes your seasons of
Speaker 4: the Simpsons, and of course other people who worked on
Speaker 4: the show, what makes it work so well is like
Speaker 4: you were filtering all of pop culture through your sort
Speaker 4: of your sensibilities.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the thing. And you'll see, like in the
Speaker 2: early Substance, there is a lot more pop culture reference
Speaker 2: to things in his sixties or fifties that like slightly
Speaker 2: older writers or you might have like heard of when
Speaker 2: they were kids.
Speaker 4: Well, you see it in Troy mcclau's movies as well. Well.
Speaker 4: I mean, god knows, I've probably watched things like I'm
Speaker 4: Gonna Butcher It, but you know the contablist reputation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's a very distinct, distinct type of movie
Speaker 2: like we want to have seen as kids, because there
Speaker 2: were like adult movies in the sixties, but all those
Speaker 2: like crazy names, like crazy Name musicals and movies was
Speaker 2: a type of genre in the sixties.
Speaker 4: I love that that's his passion project.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really sad.
Speaker 3: But when we go into into his house and there's
Speaker 3: posters on the wall, those three like I think it's
Speaker 3: one's assault on Gemini three is one of them?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Astro Astro something Gemini three.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't realize that there's a game
Speaker 3: that came out in the nineties. No, it's called Virtual Springfield,
Speaker 3: and Troy McClure is the host of that game. And
Speaker 3: if you go into the game, those films actually got
Speaker 3: redesigned posters that are in that game. I was wondering
Speaker 3: whether you have actually ever seen them.
Speaker 2: No, I never, I don't. I don't think I ever
Speaker 2: saw Virtual Simpsons.
Speaker 3: I know, yeah, Virtual Spirit It's actually it still works
Speaker 3: on Windows ten. I still play it on my laptopic
Speaker 3: essially my kid Like basically just you're just walking your
Speaker 3: inn Springfield. And I think it's great that Traum mcclauw
Speaker 3: is the host, because of course he is. He hosted
Speaker 3: everything in the Simpsons universe. But getting that again from
Speaker 3: Phil just prior to what happened is just it's it's
Speaker 3: really it's kind of emotional.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's nice.
Speaker 3: Yes, But look going back to this episode though, so
Speaker 3: what what was it about this one that you loved
Speaker 3: the most. Was it just the fact that you got
Speaker 3: to work so much with Phil in particular, just on
Speaker 3: this episode in particular, I.
Speaker 2: Think it was it was that, But it's also like,
Speaker 2: we really it's the perfect example of exploring a side
Speaker 2: character to side characters lives that like you could not
Speaker 2: have done in season three or four when we're still
Speaker 2: like getting to know the family and you just it
Speaker 2: was so it's such a perfect expiration of a and
Speaker 2: it's also like the jokes are so good, and it's
Speaker 2: also like a really nicely emotional story. It's just like
Speaker 2: I like it because it works on all all those levels.
Speaker 3: Was there original concern about maybe retreading the same story
Speaker 3: with Selma because she'd already had so many previous husbands.
Speaker 2: No, that was more just like a running joke. So
Speaker 2: it's like, of course it's Selma because she's always going
Speaker 2: to have like another husband that doesn't work out.
Speaker 3: And it was nice that you did play on the
Speaker 3: story that was sort of implemented with I think it
Speaker 3: was Salma's choice where she gets jubjub. Obviously you still
Speaker 3: continued on jubjub, but also just shares this design not
Speaker 3: just for love, but to have a baby, but to
Speaker 3: have a baby for the right reasons as well. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I just want to be a mum.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember that was that was discussed in the
Speaker 2: Story Retreat with Jim Brooks. It's like that that it
Speaker 2: was really important to him and to everybody that that
Speaker 2: be a Really, when you're talking about having a kid
Speaker 2: and for these for these not right purposes, it's like,
Speaker 2: that's a let's be really real about it.
Speaker 3: I want to hear about these retreats. You hear so
Speaker 3: much about them. How you guys all went away and
Speaker 3: you just sort of did you put your name in
Speaker 3: a hat and you picked that ideas or something? Or
Speaker 3: is it just people pitching idea?
Speaker 2: Yes, well it was like I think I think the
Speaker 2: original genesis of have any Story Retreats is like Jim Brooks,
Speaker 2: especially then, was always so busy making great movies that
Speaker 2: we couldn't We needed to trap him in a room
Speaker 2: and get all the ideas out of his head in
Speaker 2: like two days because we weren't going to see him
Speaker 2: for a while. So like that was like I think,
Speaker 2: like the main reason is like we and we did
Speaker 2: like like I know, like some shows like had story
Speaker 2: retreats like in Hawaii and like all in luxurious circumstances,
Speaker 2: and we our story retreats were at the hotel right
Speaker 2: next to the Fox Lot, and in fact we could
Speaker 2: look out the balcony and see the Simpsons offices.
Speaker 3: I'm envisioning a forest cabin somewhere.
Speaker 2: No, it was like the Hyatt or whatever. I don't
Speaker 2: the building still exists, It's not a hotel now.
Speaker 3: It was the tension. It was the tension.
Speaker 4: It wasn't just an inspiriting anonymous three style hotel.
Speaker 2: Yea literally just overlock looked the Fox Lot and you're
Speaker 2: just like locked in the room all day. Like they're
Speaker 2: bringing like a nice lunch and stuff. But it's also
Speaker 2: like it's an exciting kind of thrilling also very nerve
Speaker 2: wrecking time, because like you're you're not just pitching two
Speaker 2: people you know and and to Matt, but you're pitching
Speaker 2: to Jim Brooks, who's this brilliant not just sitcom but
Speaker 2: this brilliant entertainment comedy god. And you want him to
Speaker 2: like the idea but you also really want his take
Speaker 2: on it, because we we would often say, like Jim's
Speaker 2: Jim's gonna find the right emotional hook for this Marge
Speaker 2: story or whatever. It's like we have the makings of it,
Speaker 2: but we don't quite have it. I bet Jim will
Speaker 2: crack it. And and he was just he and he
Speaker 2: was really crucial in this life, not just for coming
Speaker 2: up with the fish idea, but with like those emotional
Speaker 2: cruxes and emotional points of like when Selma finds out
Speaker 2: that it's a sham marriage and when they're discussing how
Speaker 2: having a kid like that was really the moments where
Speaker 2: you really watch in Brooks, but those story retreats where
Speaker 2: it was also like Bill and I were really anal
Speaker 2: obsessed with people, so we'd always work out our pitches
Speaker 2: ahead of time and practice them, and so we got
Speaker 2: to learn to really like pitching and enjoy it, which
Speaker 2: is then's something that we took from The Simpsons, because like,
Speaker 2: now I like, I like going in a room and
Speaker 2: pitching something. I'll still be like horribly nervous beforehand, but
Speaker 2: when I'm pitching it, I like, I know I got it,
Speaker 2: I know it got mapped out. So like every writer
Speaker 2: would come with like two or three episode ideas and
Speaker 2: then like for example, Bill and I would always have
Speaker 2: the basic story beats worked out, and other other writers,
Speaker 2: like I remember Scully was always really good at at
Speaker 2: pitching and having stories and having really emotionally grounded stories.
Speaker 2: But then you pitch them to the room and then
Speaker 2: you get everybody kind of looks to Jim to see
Speaker 2: if he likes it, and then if he likes it,
Speaker 2: and Matt likes it, and when Sam was there, it
Speaker 2: was they were the big three. But if they like it,
Speaker 2: then you talk about it more and you kind of
Speaker 2: then you actually do a lot more. You spend maybe
Speaker 2: like half an hour on the stories, flashing it out,
Speaker 2: and then you'll go and then they always had a
Speaker 2: gong in the room, and it's like when we're done, ready,
Speaker 2: this story is ready, it's cooked, you know, you bang
Speaker 2: the gong and you move on to the next pitch.
Speaker 3: Can you call the first time you pitched something and
Speaker 3: how you're feeling. Were you nervous? But just to splad
Speaker 3: it out there, Look, what was the first thing you
Speaker 3: pitched in? That writer?
Speaker 2: Just just suck. My wife just walked in. I gotta
Speaker 2: tell her I'm doing this just a.
Speaker 4: Second, Josh before you begin. Sorry, this might be an
Speaker 4: opportunity time to ask, is it purely coincidence that your
Speaker 4: wife's name is Lisa Simmons.
Speaker 2: In fact, that was an amazing thing early on because
Speaker 2: like I asked Matt to do a birthday drawing for
Speaker 2: her and the because herd it's one letter away from
Speaker 2: Lisa Simpson. So we still have that drugs Happy Briefletely Simmons.
Speaker 3: This show is brought to you by the four figure
Speaker 3: discount Patreon, where you will find over one hundred hours
Speaker 3: of bonus podcasts, including exclusive Simpsons reviews and commentaries, as
Speaker 3: well as exclusive episodes of Going Down to South Park,
Speaker 3: tales of Futurama, Bob's Pods, Speaking of the Hill, Talking Seefeld,
Speaker 3: the One about Friends, and so much more. So go
Speaker 3: ahead and join the family today at patreon dot com
Speaker 3: slash four figure discount. But I was just asking, can
Speaker 3: you recall the first thing that you ever pitch and
Speaker 3: we're you nervous to pitch it? What was it?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I have a document and I remember there's I
Speaker 2: don't remember what the first things we pitched and there
Speaker 2: were a couple like we pitched a story of the
Speaker 2: kidnapping of Montgomery Burns. I think that was one of
Speaker 2: the things, and then elements of that we went into
Speaker 2: who Sharp mister Burns? But like that didn't like that
Speaker 2: episode was not approved, but there'd be. There are a
Speaker 2: number of episodes that we might have like pitched, and
Speaker 2: then we're able to use elements in later stories. But
Speaker 2: I don't I don't remember what the first couple of
Speaker 2: episodes we pitched were, and I or horror how they went.
Speaker 2: And I'm sure we're incredibly nervous, and it wasn't. It
Speaker 2: wasn't until a couple of seasons in that we felt confident.
Speaker 2: And that's the same in the room is It took
Speaker 2: a good, good couple of months when we were first
Speaker 2: in a room to feel confident to like really pitch
Speaker 2: jokes and it's I remember, I don't remember the joke,
Speaker 2: but I remember I pitched a joke and Sam Simon laughed,
Speaker 2: and from that moment on, I was like, Okay, I'm
Speaker 2: I'm not going to get fired. I got this.
Speaker 3: How good were they explaining to you why they were
Speaker 3: going to turn down an idea you had?
Speaker 2: They were really good. That's the thing. That's so unusual
Speaker 2: about like it's like Mike and Al and everybody who
Speaker 2: who I know it was Scully and everybody else and
Speaker 2: Matt Salmon and David Murkin. Is if they didn't like
Speaker 2: an idea, they would explain it in a really nice
Speaker 2: way as opposed to go that sucks or that would
Speaker 2: never work. They'd be like, I think that might not
Speaker 2: work because of so and so or whatever, or or
Speaker 2: they might go like that's good, but let's keep let's
Speaker 2: keep thinking.
Speaker 4: Did it make you a better roger As a result
Speaker 4: getting that kind of feedback, it's like, okay, this, but
Speaker 4: this doesn't And.
Speaker 3: Also knowing you didn't have to be there's no fear
Speaker 3: of pitching something because you know your right.
Speaker 2: And that's another rule is that we always that we
Speaker 2: learned from those guys older people, and that we always
Speaker 2: enacted as like there's no bad pitch because some of that,
Speaker 2: as you see with like planet a f apes, there's
Speaker 2: like even something that sounds like the dumbest idea could
Speaker 2: lead to something great. So you've always got to like
Speaker 2: give you it's it's your job running the room to
Speaker 2: know whether you're going to give an idea a chance.
Speaker 2: But you should never you just have a feeling about it.
Speaker 2: And there's a lot of things like might explore ideas
Speaker 2: that go nowhere, but at least we explore.
Speaker 3: Them exactly well. We usually do a big run through
Speaker 3: the episode. I feel I've had you long enough now.
Speaker 3: I feel we want to just pick out some key
Speaker 3: moments in the episode and just sort of dove into
Speaker 3: them because it's just passing interesting discussion. Yeah, so basically
Speaker 3: this one here you touch on the Muppets a couple
Speaker 3: of times, and it's one of my favorite moments from
Speaker 3: the episode is when he's taking somewhe to a special
Speaker 3: screening of his latest film, and it's just the Muppets
Speaker 3: go medieval from the opening scene there from nineteen seventy seven.
Speaker 3: They're the only ones there at the flea market driving
Speaker 3: which has been demolished the following day, which I think
Speaker 3: is just great. I'm a huge Muppets fan, right, I
Speaker 3: love the Muppets. It feels like you were just taking
Speaker 3: the mickey out of the Muppets here. So were you
Speaker 3: guys just not the Muppets fans or.
Speaker 2: Yes, here's the truth about that, because like I'm you're younger,
Speaker 2: so you're you're like the Muppets generation. I'm I'm the
Speaker 2: Sesame Street generation. So I like a certain type of
Speaker 2: Jim Hansen puppets, like I love like Sesame Street was
Speaker 2: the formative thing to me it growing up in the seventies,
Speaker 2: and they had a lot of great animation, but also
Speaker 2: puppet puppets. But I found the Muppets to be really corny,
Speaker 2: and I still watched it. I still liked it, but
Speaker 2: it's just like really really corny. So like that was like,
Speaker 2: so yeah, we were taking the mickey out of it.
Speaker 2: Not the world's biggest Muppet fan, though I love I
Speaker 2: love Jim Henson puppets, just not the Muppets.
Speaker 4: By the way, I've got to take issue with something here.
Speaker 4: I mean, first of all, we see the family watching
Speaker 4: the Muppets go Medieval on movie for a rained at
Speaker 4: ball game on TV. Yet later it's got a theatrical release.
Speaker 4: What's all that about?
Speaker 2: I don't know. I certainly I got fired for that
Speaker 2: blood I.
Speaker 4: Was exactly the same thing of I'm not going to
Speaker 4: acquire this to Josh.
Speaker 2: I don't There's a lot of stuff like that. Did it?
Speaker 2: Like people are like, what about this is? Like we
Speaker 2: did it never crossed our mind, and that never kind
Speaker 2: of crossed my mind for twenty five years.
Speaker 4: The Simpsons predicted so many things. You wils have predicted
Speaker 4: the shrinking of the theatrical window.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that we did.
Speaker 3: How often do you quote the Simpsons in your day
Speaker 3: to day life still to this day?
Speaker 2: Oh, all the time, every day, And in fact, we
Speaker 2: would quote before episodes ever aired. There are lines that
Speaker 2: we would quote around the office. So we're the original
Speaker 2: Simpsons quoters because there's certain lines that we love so
Speaker 2: much we would just repeat in the office or that
Speaker 2: would come up before episodes. So so like like all
Speaker 2: the time. Yeah, and I have to think of them.
Speaker 2: They're they're very just like a lot of Simpsons stuff,
Speaker 2: they're they're pretty obscure, but we really for whatever reason.
Speaker 2: But then they're also and I have to think if
Speaker 2: I can actually tell you one of them. There are
Speaker 2: certain lines that we loved and never thought that other
Speaker 2: people would like and then have ended up that. It's
Speaker 2: a delightful surprise when we learned, like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: other people out there in the world they love that
Speaker 2: line too, and they're quoting that line too. I don't
Speaker 2: have a particular example, but there have been many.
Speaker 3: Well, the big one now for the main culture is
Speaker 3: Stained Hams. Could you have any idea that Stained Hams
Speaker 3: is going to become a thing? I mean, Bills now
Speaker 3: a living from it with these.
Speaker 2: Days you do. And that's the thing, the rare thing.
Speaker 2: It's very rare that anything goes in verbatim from a
Speaker 2: writer like people. There's like very few sybstance writers like
Speaker 2: John Vitty or David Cohen who were so good at
Speaker 2: it like that they had. It's like if you got
Speaker 2: sixty percent of your first draft into the final episode,
Speaker 2: that's amazing. And that's the reserve for people like David
Speaker 2: Cohen and John Vetdy or Sportswelder. But so it's very
Speaker 2: rare because it's also, as you've got the feel from
Speaker 2: talking about it, it's very much a room written show.
Speaker 2: So anything, anything is going to be rewritten and made better.
Speaker 2: But for twenty two two Birthdays, it really was people
Speaker 2: took the characters that they really love and Bill and
Speaker 2: I but Bill obviously especially love Skinner and Chalmers, and
Speaker 2: we were and that was that episode. Myself and Greg
Speaker 2: Daniels were actually in charge of cobpling it together. Like Bill,
Speaker 2: we would split up episodes, Bill and I and so like,
Speaker 2: you're in charge of this this half of episodes, and
Speaker 2: I'm in charge of these half and but we'd like,
Speaker 2: you know, we would switch off to whatever so it
Speaker 2: gets the balance. But we're overseeing twenty two short films.
Speaker 2: And Bill wrote fist. I think he just wrote it
Speaker 2: like in a night, and it was so perfect to me.
Speaker 2: I think I cut out one couplet because it was long,
Speaker 2: Like I just caught out this couplet and I'm just
Speaker 2: going in because like Bill and I are like, we're
Speaker 2: in charge, this is this is perfect. We're not. It
Speaker 2: doesn't need to be rewritten. It's going in And that
Speaker 2: was it. Wow, And so it was really was I
Speaker 2: think it's it's entirely Bill one hundred percent. So he's
Speaker 2: he's a title to make a living from it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and he had like he said, I'm sure he said it.
Speaker 2: We had no idea for like twenty years and then
Speaker 2: it just suddenly took off, I guess from Australia where
Speaker 2: they some supermarket was advertising steamed hams.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well what happened was was Simpsons fandom is huge in Australia.
Speaker 3: It's just all and we're wondering why they never came back,
Speaker 3: you know, because we've got that one episodes, like come
Speaker 3: back and do another episode because it's huge here. But
Speaker 3: you know, we have stores like supermarkets that you can
Speaker 3: design your own signs, so the workers will draw a
Speaker 3: owne signs. Now, there was like Hamburgs and they went
Speaker 3: steamed hams Now on special as a joke because the
Speaker 3: worker was obviously a Simpsons fan, and someone took a
Speaker 3: photo of that send it to us. We shared it
Speaker 3: on our page and boom it exploded. And then now
Speaker 3: there's a store called JB. High Fire, which is kind
Speaker 3: of like the equivalent of what in the States. I know,
Speaker 3: they sell TV and things like the movies, like Tower
Speaker 3: Records if Tower Records still exists, that kind of thing.
Speaker 3: But they have a thing where it's now just they
Speaker 3: have a competition who can make the best Simpsons sign
Speaker 3: at their store. So it's just Simpsons culture is just
Speaker 3: so big in Australia.
Speaker 2: That's well, so you guys are part to thank for that.
Speaker 3: So Bill, where's that residual's?
Speaker 2: Bill? Yeah, that's I think that's what Bill's like, where's
Speaker 2: my residuals? For coming up with? Though he has he
Speaker 2: has trademarked that phrase, Steve pamsh he owns it, wisely
Speaker 2: owns the tradewark.
Speaker 3: It seemed like a clever businessman that Bill likely.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's got he has. He always had a good
Speaker 2: business head.
Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, exactly. Now there's a few other things
Speaker 3: in this episode. Fish called someone wanted to touch on.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 3: I'm not sure whether you even realized because we mentioned
Speaker 3: it before. So the iconic sleept with the Fish's line,
Speaker 3: which is now incredibly dirty. As a kid, you have
Speaker 3: no idea what's going on, but you know, it's just
Speaker 3: it's it's a great, great gag. That is the only
Speaker 3: time that fat Tony was not voiced by Joe montagna
Speaker 3: in the history of The Simpsons. Do you know who
Speaker 3: voiced him in that scene? No, it was Phil Hartman.
Speaker 2: It was Phil. Really, Wow, I don't I don't really,
Speaker 2: I don't remember that. And I just saw I just
Speaker 2: saw the episode today and I was like, oh, and
Speaker 2: I assumed that was Joe Montagnan. Obviously we must have
Speaker 2: not been we must, do you know? Do you know
Speaker 2: the story behind it?
Speaker 3: I don't know the story. I'm I'm assuming because you're
Speaker 3: mentioning earlier how it was one of those oh, we're
Speaker 3: going to get this line in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think. I think because because Joe Montagna was
Speaker 2: really hard, like he's a big movie actor and was
Speaker 2: always who knows where in the world he was doing
Speaker 2: a movie, so we must not have been able to
Speaker 2: get him, and a lot of times to record, we'd
Speaker 2: have whatever actors are around, oh can you just tempt
Speaker 2: this line? So he we must have had him tempt it,
Speaker 2: and then we didn't get Joe Montaigne. But I honestly
Speaker 2: do not know if that is was intentional or we
Speaker 2: just forgot that it wasn't him, and then that's hilarious.
Speaker 2: I really I don't. That's something I don't remember.
Speaker 3: But the thing is, you listen to it and you
Speaker 3: don't realize it. If you don't, if you don't know,
Speaker 3: you don't know. But if you once you know, you
Speaker 3: listen to it and you're go, oh, yeah, it is
Speaker 3: slightly different, but it's close enough.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's I mean, there's a few times where we
Speaker 2: cheated voices or even like took it from a previous episode.
Speaker 2: And there there's a few times like I put, I put,
Speaker 2: I did a few things that stayed in really look
Speaker 2: what like, you know, and there are weird things that
Speaker 2: the actors couldn't do and we asked them to do
Speaker 2: or the sound people like that one. This is so oblique,
Speaker 2: but in the summer four foot two, you know, if
Speaker 2: there's a millhouse sees a sand crab, and we wanted
Speaker 2: a really specific sound for the sand crab. And the
Speaker 2: sound guy, Travis Powers, who's like the most brilliant sound
Speaker 2: guy ever, just couldn't do it. And I was like, no,
Speaker 2: it's something like like that, and so they and they
Speaker 2: were like, well, why don't you just do it?
Speaker 3: And so I did it.
Speaker 2: And oh, but a weird, a weird one that you'd
Speaker 2: think of her actors could do is we wanted to
Speaker 2: Curly in in in the I'm Just a Bill parody,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 3: You know, the A Amendment to be Yeah, and at
Speaker 3: the very end, which was very pression, where they're storming
Speaker 3: the Capitol, he says like doors open, boys or whatever,
Speaker 3: and all these crazy bills run in and there's one
Speaker 3: that runs in and goes who woo woop like Curly.
Speaker 2: But we couldn't get None of the actors who are
Speaker 2: brilliant could do it. So I just and we were
Speaker 2: on the sound stage mixing it and I'm so and
Speaker 2: Matt was like, why don't you just do it? And
Speaker 2: there's other thing. There's other things too, Like I remember
Speaker 2: on sound stage that was like, or Matt just did.
Speaker 3: It because Matt Gridon did it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so he did. There. He did not that, but
Speaker 2: he did. There's other like sounds or people in crowds
Speaker 2: or whatever that we just didn't have and we had
Speaker 2: to mix and turn in the episode that night. So
Speaker 2: we're like, just one of us go down to the
Speaker 2: microphone on the soundstage and make duvis sound or say
Speaker 2: this word or whatever and it will go in.
Speaker 3: Didn't he didn't he do Maggie's Pacify?
Speaker 2: Yeah, he did. That was another thing that I think
Speaker 2: they couldn't They couldn't get right. But Matt did it
Speaker 2: us straight. So that's yeah, that's always Matt.
Speaker 4: Very brief side, but the old the original Running Man
Speaker 4: movie with Arnld Schwarzenegger. I was reading some oral history
Speaker 4: of it and apparently they couldn't get Arnold back to
Speaker 4: do some adr. So in the completed movie there's like
Speaker 4: three different people doing Arnold impersonation.
Speaker 2: Wow. I didn't know that, but yeah, there are. There
Speaker 2: are some times where like we couldn't we couldn't get
Speaker 2: the actor, and so it was it was somehow cheated,
Speaker 2: not often, but happened.
Speaker 4: One thing I like about the episode is how it
Speaker 4: feels kind of inside baseball when it comes to showbiz
Speaker 4: and showbiz scandals, but it's not really sort of overplaying
Speaker 4: its hand. That feels kind of like a Jim Brook's
Speaker 4: influence in a lot of ways. I mean, where your
Speaker 4: name checking people like this isn't necessarily shows, but yeah,
Speaker 4: JFK and Bing Crosby, it's like, oh, they've got scandals
Speaker 4: in their past, or even the whole thing with Troy
Speaker 4: McClure and his sort of his secret sexual fetishes or whatever.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think everybody. I think everybody was kind of
Speaker 2: happy to be able to do that because like we're,
Speaker 2: especially on The Simpsons, it's like a real outlier show
Speaker 2: and staff, and it's like and we're not like we're
Speaker 2: not hanging out with celebrities in restaurants and stuff, and
Speaker 2: it's like we barely know anyone who's even remotely famous,
Speaker 2: and so it's like us kind of like glimpsing Hollywood
Speaker 2: from from being there, but not really participating in it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So were you really did you really feel shut
Speaker 3: off from the world when you.
Speaker 2: Were We Yes, in a very good but weird way,
Speaker 2: Like we were not We were not at all weird.
Speaker 2: That were kids like you growing up that it might
Speaker 2: really influence. It was a big show, so we knew
Speaker 2: there was a big audience out there, but we were
Speaker 2: so sheltered, and like I said, the internet was so
Speaker 2: nascent and also so sour. The people who were weighing
Speaker 2: in the show were so angry about it that we stopped,
Speaker 2: we stopped looking at that. So we really were sheltered
Speaker 2: and we were just like and also because Fox couldn't
Speaker 2: give notes, we were just like, let's just do what
Speaker 2: makes us laugh and makes our friends laugh. And so
Speaker 2: that was that was a treasure that you don't realize.
Speaker 2: You have to you leave the show and go into
Speaker 2: the real world of Hollywood, where you got to take
Speaker 2: notes and you have to learn how to you have
Speaker 2: to be a good note taker and learn how to
Speaker 2: interpret them and all this other stuff, and you've got
Speaker 2: to deal with actors who have their own feelings about
Speaker 2: stuff and everything like that. Whereas an Assimpsons, it was
Speaker 2: just this team that was very happy to work together
Speaker 2: and get things from each other, and that was it's
Speaker 2: lightning in a bottle.
Speaker 3: You said you were burnt out when you finished on
Speaker 3: the sentence, But at any point post that when you left,
Speaker 3: did you regret leaving?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do, to be honest, because like we thought
Speaker 2: it would be over in ten years. And it was
Speaker 2: also when we left, it was the height the TV
Speaker 2: was going super strong, and it was just like you
Speaker 2: could go out and probably get your own show and
Speaker 2: and and so like we and that was the it
Speaker 2: was the very tail end of that. It was like
Speaker 2: the late eighties through the late nineties was the height
Speaker 2: of what being a TV writer was was like a
Speaker 2: golden thing. But after very very soon after that, it
Speaker 2: didn't and it became harder and harder. And like we
Speaker 2: Bill and I would have to do and we'd love
Speaker 2: being able to do our own thing and like doing
Speaker 2: like Mission Hill and all these other shows are like
Speaker 2: being able to work on Gravity Falls was like a
Speaker 2: real treat that I would have never been able to
Speaker 2: do had I had I not left, And so like
Speaker 2: I feel like that is my career is rich for that,
Speaker 2: But I still like if I had known the show
Speaker 2: would keep going. I think I probably would have just
Speaker 2: stayed because it was so fun to do, and I
Speaker 2: might have become all old and bitter. I don't know,
Speaker 2: but but it yeah, I do, just just oftentimes when
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, I miss I missed doing that show
Speaker 2: because it was such a treat.
Speaker 3: Would you go back?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Probably because I feel like I've been away long
Speaker 2: enough that I would. I could be fresh, I could
Speaker 2: be fresh enough. And it's also like I miss I
Speaker 2: miss writing those characters and the freedom of telling any
Speaker 2: story and joke we want to. Even though like there's
Speaker 2: shows that I've worked on, like Gravity Falls or the
Speaker 2: show I did this, I did a kid's puppet show
Speaker 2: for the BBC that I was delightful and I.
Speaker 3: Loved, not the Muppets, not the Muppets.
Speaker 2: It was not it was puppets but not muppets, very different.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I missed the freedom and the feeling of
Speaker 2: having this whole world to work with. So that was
Speaker 2: because I feel like when we started on show, it's
Speaker 2: like we were handed this incredible toy, video game type
Speaker 2: thing world where it's just so there's so much potential
Speaker 2: in it. It felt, you know, and less that we
Speaker 2: thought it would add after ten seasons.
Speaker 3: Well, the way that comedy and just the world has
Speaker 3: changed since then, though, in the last twenty five years,
Speaker 3: do you think your approach to the gags and the
Speaker 3: way you write Simpsons would have to change?
Speaker 2: No, because I think, thankfully what happened is the approach
Speaker 2: that we were taught by the older people, and then
Speaker 2: that we went forth and people like greg Or David
Speaker 2: Cohen went forth on their own shows, and so that's
Speaker 2: the Simpsons way of doing things is much more or
Speaker 2: for example of gravity Falls. At Alex Hirsch, who created
Speaker 2: gravity Falls, was a kid during our Simpsons and grew
Speaker 2: up being really inspired and influenced by it. So what
Speaker 2: I find is like, if I go on another show,
Speaker 2: it's much more like working on the Simpsons than the
Speaker 2: shows that were before the Simpsons. So I feel like
Speaker 2: the comedy writing world has gotten better because of shows
Speaker 2: like that and South Park and Seinfeld, like that's gotten better,
Speaker 2: But what's gotten a lot worse is the opportunities for
Speaker 2: comedy writers. Because it used to be like our showed Simpsons,
Speaker 2: if you worked hard and did a good job, you're
Speaker 2: on it for life, and shows would last for could
Speaker 2: go for ten seasons, but now shows will just go
Speaker 2: for three seasons and they'll only employ writers for part
Speaker 2: of that, and so it's harder and harder, especially for
Speaker 2: you young people starting out. To me, I feel like
Speaker 2: we got in, we were lucky to get in when
Speaker 2: we did because we were able to make careers of it.
Speaker 2: It's much harder these days to make a career, and like,
Speaker 2: younger writers have to have multiple writing jobs or even
Speaker 2: other outside jobs to support themselves, which.
Speaker 3: I find interesting because I feel like there's more content
Speaker 3: out there than ever. Yeah, but the problem is just
Speaker 3: the approachures that the Apressure have they hire the riders
Speaker 3: is different.
Speaker 2: It is. And it's also like there was a bubble
Speaker 2: that you could just see about to burst where they're
Speaker 2: too there were just too many shows and that's and
Speaker 2: that's like that was kind of a big factor because
Speaker 2: like ten years ago when like and Netflix was kind
Speaker 2: of just booming and they would buy tons of shows
Speaker 2: and they're like, I think they're like five hundred, four
Speaker 2: hundred and five hundred shows on the air, and like
Speaker 2: when we were starting out there maybe fifty, and it
Speaker 2: just was too many and it was it was bound
Speaker 2: to burst, and it did, and also, yeah, the way
Speaker 2: budgets became tighter and tighter too, so employing writers for
Speaker 2: the full run of show, which is really important because
Speaker 2: that's how writers like us learned how to do things.
Speaker 2: Is like we like apprenticed under the older writers and
Speaker 2: producers and you learn to do or if you learn
Speaker 2: how to direct actors, you learn how to edit and
Speaker 2: all this sort of thing that writers now don't get
Speaker 2: to do because they're not given a chance. And that's
Speaker 2: that's a shame.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you're getting a lot of content, but you're building
Speaker 4: a lot of houses, but they might out of balsa
Speaker 4: wood essentially.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly, and they and they're torn down after
Speaker 2: a certain number of seasons where the companies then it's
Speaker 2: going to be to we don't want to pay residuals
Speaker 2: or whatever. And it's just like it's it's much it's
Speaker 2: much tougher now.
Speaker 3: This show is brought to you by the four Finger
Speaker 3: Discount Patreon, where you'll find over one hundred hours of
Speaker 3: bonus podcasts, including exclusive Simpsons reviews and commentaries, as well
Speaker 3: as exclusive episodes of Going Down to South Park, Tales
Speaker 3: of Futurama, Bob's Pods. Speaking of the Hill, Talking Seifeld,
Speaker 3: the one about friends, and so much more. So go
Speaker 3: ahead and join the family today at patreon dot com
Speaker 3: slash four finger discount. We call back to write for
Speaker 3: the Simpsons movie kind of A few of the visual
Speaker 3: writers were called back. No, you weren't okay.
Speaker 2: No, I know, and I don't know. I don't know mine.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because I was Bill. I guess I guess Bill
Speaker 3: wasn't either then.
Speaker 2: But but we also, like we we left, we like
Speaker 2: lots of like we were really young, and we like
Speaker 2: we let like some people were small, like when they
Speaker 2: left the Simpsons and there still had kept their hand
Speaker 2: in it and consult but we were like we're full
Speaker 2: of We're like little house and full of beans and
Speaker 2: ready ready to go out in the world and do
Speaker 2: our own thing. So we kind of just just went
Speaker 2: out cold.
Speaker 3: So we offered opportunities to come back and just work
Speaker 3: on certain episodes or whatnot, and turned it down. Or
Speaker 3: you just once you left clean slate were done. We
Speaker 3: didn't even get acknowledged anymore, were contacted.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of in between because then like we
Speaker 2: worked and I worked on the Futurama.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then you went disenchantment as well in recent years.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, so like we're all like friends with everybody.
Speaker 2: It's just I think like we we were like really
Speaker 2: full of beans and very young, whereas like older people
Speaker 2: like Skully who had been around the business kind of
Speaker 2: knew like it's it's tough out there.
Speaker 3: We recently reviewed the Treots of Horror, the latest one,
Speaker 3: which it was it was all right, But what were
Speaker 3: your thoughts on the Trios of Horror episodes? Were they
Speaker 3: fun to write or were you not really much of
Speaker 3: a horror fan?
Speaker 2: Yes, because now they were. They provided a big dose
Speaker 2: variety of what you could do because they couldn't in
Speaker 2: a in a regular episode. You can't you can't have
Speaker 2: characters die in a funny way. You can't do you
Speaker 2: can't do aliens, you can't do supernatural because the Simpsons
Speaker 2: is an extremely realistic world. So the Halloween episodes where
Speaker 2: our chants to both do that do stuff that we
Speaker 2: couldn't do, but also ventin you get to parody great
Speaker 2: sci fi or horror movies. So it was always like
Speaker 2: a treat to be able to do those.
Speaker 3: I always say on the podcast, how many of my
Speaker 3: generation we don't call the Shining, The Shining. We call
Speaker 3: it the Shinning because that was our first introduction to
Speaker 3: that movie. Yeah, there were so many films and TV shows,
Speaker 3: just pop culture icons in general that as we got older,
Speaker 3: we went, oh, it's that person from the Simpsons. H
Speaker 3: it is that movie from the No, the Simpsons were
Speaker 3: parenting this. This came first, but we were introduced to
Speaker 3: it by the Simpsons.
Speaker 2: Yeah, fair too. Like da I was saying about Mad Magazine.
Speaker 2: For our generation, it is like I know, tons of
Speaker 2: kids were exposed to stuff or exposed to stuff that
Speaker 2: they still don't know was a reference to a certain movie.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, exactly. Yeah, But anyway, thank you so much again,
Speaker 3: Josh via time. It's been great to delve into a
Speaker 3: fish court some Like I said, we should do a
Speaker 3: full run through, but it's just been so interesting hearing
Speaker 3: just your time working on the show. And I would
Speaker 3: love to have you on again just to talk more
Speaker 3: about it, because, as I said, you were running the
Speaker 3: show during my favorite ear of the show, and it's
Speaker 3: just I could eat it all up. You could talk
Speaker 3: for hours. I never get tired of hearing your story.
Speaker 3: So thank you again for your time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, thank you we're both Bill and I are
Speaker 2: happy to blab on forever because, as I said, we
Speaker 2: were fans before, so like we were while we were
Speaker 2: running the show, we're still obsessed with the show. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and we'ld talk about it endlessly.
Speaker 3: So is that why you would get? Is that why
Speaker 3: you woul get? Would you get frustrated when you used
Speaker 3: to read the negative comments online because you're thinking, I'm
Speaker 3: writing this, I'm a fan like you guys, why aren't you?
Speaker 3: Did you second guess yourself when you would read those.
Speaker 2: Reviews or no? It just made us mad and it
Speaker 2: also made our heads explode. We're like, these were they
Speaker 2: were saying worst episode ever, like in season four, which
Speaker 2: is the greatest ever of any TV show, and it
Speaker 2: just made us crazy. We're like, how could you even
Speaker 2: be how could you be so wrongheaded? So but it's
Speaker 2: also like when you I know that a lot of
Speaker 2: writers are like that, you would, Oh, you'll read every
Speaker 2: review until you get to the point that makes something
Speaker 2: that enrages you. Where you get to something, you will
Speaker 2: read any review or all comments until you get to
Speaker 2: negative comments, and that then drive you.
Speaker 3: Crazy doom scrolling.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly, because.
Speaker 3: You're big on on X on Twitter, and you're in
Speaker 3: the every day and I just love you give so
Speaker 3: many insights. One thing you mentioned recently, just before you
Speaker 3: go a couple of things on the touch on you know,
Speaker 3: somewhere you have the audio tape of Albert Brooks as
Speaker 3: Hank Scorpio improving with Dan. You've got to find that tape.
Speaker 2: I don't know it's somewhere. It's like it's probably in
Speaker 2: my garage, and my garage is full of spiders and
Speaker 2: and and stuff, but it's like, I know it somewhere.
Speaker 2: Because they gave us that. That whole episode is cobbled
Speaker 2: to other from basically like three hours of improv between
Speaker 2: Dan and Albert Brooks, and like we had to put
Speaker 2: it all together because Albert Brooks is crazily brilliant and
Speaker 2: we'll just go off on these tangents, and Dan is
Speaker 2: so good at ad libbing. He kept like the homewer's
Speaker 2: reactions in the episode are just Dan's reactions to Albert
Speaker 2: Brooks's saying something and so, but we had to like, really,
Speaker 2: when we wrote that episode, we knew that Albert Brooks
Speaker 2: is a crazy ad liber and we're like, we know
Speaker 2: he's going to come up with something better for this,
Speaker 2: but we had to we got there. We get They
Speaker 2: gave us the tape of that full record so we
Speaker 2: could listen to it and go like, let's use this
Speaker 2: bit and let's use that bit. So and I know,
Speaker 2: so I know it's somewhere because I I don't throw
Speaker 2: anything away, but I don't know where.
Speaker 3: Let's rescue it from the spider cob webs immediately, Dan
Speaker 3: and I will.
Speaker 4: Overcome our fear of spiders to come to your house
Speaker 4: and rummage to your garage to find it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's that's why I'm not disclosing my address,
Speaker 2: because I don't want people going for my garage. But
Speaker 2: also but also I remember, I think this is a
Speaker 2: long time ago. Like we asked the editor at the Simpsons,
Speaker 2: like do you have these? And they erased a lot
Speaker 2: of the tapes, so it doesn't it. It may only
Speaker 2: exist on this cassette tape.
Speaker 3: It's a piece of history. You need to this type.
Speaker 2: Because you can make it. I've always said you can
Speaker 2: make you can make the next Simpsons movie out of that.
Speaker 4: How much I'm just picturing your garage like the like
Speaker 4: the way it hasn't the in the writers of the
Speaker 4: lost doc. Oh, here's the full script for stop the
Speaker 4: plan of the ex I want to get on. Here's
Speaker 4: this type of Albert Brooks ripping.
Speaker 2: That's what I did find. Like I did find stuff
Speaker 2: like I went this is like a year ago. I
Speaker 2: went for and it's like, hey, here's the notes that
Speaker 2: Conan wrote to us and and stuff like that, Like
Speaker 2: I found or I found the letter that Jim Brooks
Speaker 2: sent to the network when they tried to send so
Speaker 2: that Laurence Tierney line about putting a.
Speaker 3: Hose.
Speaker 2: Yeahs, and Jim Brooks wrote a really eloquent, great cutting
Speaker 2: letter to Fox of like how dear you censor this
Speaker 2: great line and stuff? And I've that that letters somewhere
Speaker 2: in my garage and stuff.
Speaker 3: So when he said Fox, so they weren't allowed to interfere,
Speaker 3: but were they, they say, still attempted to what's what's
Speaker 3: the gun?
Speaker 2: Well, they were allowed to. They could not give us notes,
Speaker 2: but they still had a censor who like so they
Speaker 2: they they we would get notes and I have this
Speaker 2: is a great thing, but I can't I can't ever
Speaker 2: show it because it's not it would be breaking my
Speaker 2: legal agreement. But like NDA, yeah, to to ever show
Speaker 2: these notes and they're great, they're really delightful where it's
Speaker 2: like Bart can Bart must not expose his but but
Speaker 2: can only do it for three seconds or just like
Speaker 2: a lot of stuff like stuff like that. So so
Speaker 2: they were allowed to buy stand and practices to give
Speaker 2: us notes like that, but we usually either that scene
Speaker 2: would be cut or we'd find some way around it
Speaker 2: by like we did. We did have to take those notes,
Speaker 2: but we could often argue for them or say, if
Speaker 2: we do, we're gonna do these three notes, but can
Speaker 2: we do this and this? And the person who were
Speaker 2: the censor usually was like very reasonable about it. And
Speaker 2: also the Simpsons have this great lawyer who was at
Speaker 2: Fox who would always like support us because he really
Speaker 2: liked the show. So we have like when normally, like
Speaker 2: lawyers might get all concerned about making fun of somebody
Speaker 2: or something and our lawyer was like, it's funny, go ahead.
Speaker 2: So so normally but we did, so we did. We
Speaker 2: got away of a lot, but we did have to
Speaker 2: take those standards in practices notes. But you know, you
Speaker 2: know the story of Homer's phobia.
Speaker 3: Right, we're probably do but tell me again.
Speaker 2: But that we there's a sensor who was particularly annoying.
Speaker 2: And from the beginning of when you have to like
Speaker 2: you still have to like submit the story. When you
Speaker 2: after story conference and you know the showrunner or showrunners
Speaker 2: figure out what episode you're gonna do that season, you
Speaker 2: like submit a synopsis of those episodes to Fox also
Speaker 2: for their publicity so they can know what's coming. And
Speaker 2: and from the beginning they said, the censor said, this
Speaker 2: episode is not acceptable. You can't do that, you can't
Speaker 2: do the subject. And we're like, this is a really realistic.
Speaker 3: It's a positive episode, even handed love.
Speaker 2: And yeah, it's super positive, very good, very sensitive and
Speaker 2: funny and episode, and we're gonna do it. And we
Speaker 2: but we constantly after every draft, we normally get uh
Speaker 2: sensor notes and they might have like five or six things,
Speaker 2: and and half of them are like reasonable and the
Speaker 2: other half of you can like we'll ignore, we'll end
Speaker 2: up cutting or whatever. But for Homostopia, we got pages
Speaker 2: and pages and pages of notes saying you can't do this,
Speaker 2: you can't do that, you can't do this, you can't
Speaker 2: say this, blah blah blah. And we were just like
Speaker 2: and and and and but people like like Matt and
Speaker 2: I think Jim two were just very supportive and and said, no,
Speaker 2: we can do this episode. So we just ignored those notes.
Speaker 2: And then what happened is and the notes at the
Speaker 2: end said this episode is unacceptable for broadcast. And then
Speaker 2: what ended up is that that sensor left Fox and
Speaker 2: the next sensor. The next set of notes we got
Speaker 2: on it was this episode is acceptable for broadcasts. So
Speaker 2: it's like whatever that so so we out we kind
Speaker 2: of outlived because every episode takes like a year to
Speaker 2: make we outlive the censor on that.
Speaker 3: Did you have that in mind when you were writing episodes,
Speaker 3: going these references here and make sure they're not too
Speaker 3: topical now because they're going to be outdated because a
Speaker 3: lot of the later episodes that we review, by the
Speaker 3: time it aired, some of the reference would have been
Speaker 3: so out of date. But say with the early same sense,
Speaker 3: it was a lot of timeless references in the early season.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's a that's another thing that we were
Speaker 2: told by like Mike and al on Our in our
Speaker 2: first week is don't do it or the other writers
Speaker 2: too that don't do topical references because this episode's not
Speaker 2: gonna air for ten months, so it's already going to
Speaker 2: be out of date. So that's why it is like
Speaker 2: and very rarely, like the in the Halloween episode where
Speaker 2: we had Clinton and Dole who were running for president,
Speaker 2: like that was like everybody knows them, so it's gonna
Speaker 2: be okay even though it we'll be out of the
Speaker 2: election world past. But usually, Yeah, we just wanted to
Speaker 2: stayed away from it because of that. And it's also
Speaker 2: like South Park was so good at that and they
Speaker 2: had such a shorter lead time. It's like let that
Speaker 2: they'd let they're the masters of the topical references. We'll
Speaker 2: do the more, we'll do the really out of date,
Speaker 2: obscure references.
Speaker 4: You'll play the long game.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well your thoughts because you were running the Simpsons?
Speaker 3: Were you running the Simpsons when South Park kicked off?
Speaker 3: They kicked off ninety seven? When did you leave?
Speaker 2: We I think we left like ninety eight and were
Speaker 2: kind of pseudo involved. Maybe in ninety nine.
Speaker 3: I was gonna say, what was the vibelot with South
Speaker 3: Pok coming on?
Speaker 2: You know, South Park? We were there. It was like
Speaker 2: I think it was our very early years where we
Speaker 2: were just writers, like it was under I believe it
Speaker 2: was with Mike and now so I think it was,
Speaker 2: and maybe it was with Murkid. For seasons four or five,
Speaker 2: a tape of the south Park pilot circulated. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: we saw in the office and we're like, whoa, this
Speaker 2: is great. It's like this is going to be a
Speaker 2: new show. And people are like, yeah, this is a
Speaker 2: new show. So we saw that tape of people people
Speaker 2: always liked South Park in the offices. I think I
Speaker 2: think people saw didn't like Family Guy when it first
Speaker 2: came on, But I think Family Guy is such a
Speaker 2: different thing, and it's so good at just being a
Speaker 2: joke machine. Like I like it for that, but I
Speaker 2: remember at the time it's like, oh, a Family Guys
Speaker 2: just a Simpsons rip off.
Speaker 3: Well, I always can. I use it on the podcast
Speaker 3: a few times. I always compare Family on the Simpsons too,
Speaker 3: saying Family Guy is like takeout where Simpsons is a
Speaker 3: Sunday roast meal with a family.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good analogy.
Speaker 3: It's good in short doses, but you get tired of
Speaker 3: it real quick. That's how I approach anyway. I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 3: I get this, it's just but it's just joke, joke, joke, joke,
Speaker 3: without any real emotion.
Speaker 4: For a lot of the time empty calories. Satisfying, but
Speaker 4: empty calories.
Speaker 2: But that's how I feel like that. It's similar to
Speaker 2: like like after leaving The Simpsons, I couldn't watch the
Speaker 2: show for a while, And it's the same with Family
Speaker 2: Guy or any animated show. I just didn't watch for
Speaker 2: a while because I was just like, I know, I'm
Speaker 2: seeing too much behind the scenes and I'm not just
Speaker 2: enjoying it.
Speaker 3: Oh, you mentioned you did regret leaving show. How long
Speaker 3: after leaving did you start to realize, Oh, maybe I
Speaker 3: shouldn't have done that.
Speaker 2: That's it probably took like a few years of like
Speaker 2: being in the real world where it's so much more
Speaker 2: difficult to get something on the air, even though it's
Speaker 2: thrilling when you do.
Speaker 3: Because he had struggles with Mission Hill, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that was like we were like, this is
Speaker 2: gonna be the greatest thing, and very quickly realized, oh
Speaker 2: my god, we're gonna this show's gonna be canceled after
Speaker 2: a few episodes and and no one is ever going
Speaker 2: to see it. It was only because of Adult Swim a
Speaker 2: few years later, not having much to show, so that
Speaker 2: they showed Mission Hill over and over again and developed
Speaker 2: this huge fan base, but the show was long dead.
Speaker 2: But that was like, that was really heartening, where like
Speaker 2: meeting people around the country who loved Mission Hill, even
Speaker 2: though like for us it was a horrible it stopped
Speaker 2: being it stopped it from being a horrible tragedy to
Speaker 2: being something that we could fondly remember. And it's like
Speaker 2: and so like, it's like whenever I've worked on a
Speaker 2: show I loved, like Futurama or Gravity Falls or Disenchantment,
Speaker 2: that I don't think about it where I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: I'm happy to be doing this really fun show. But
Speaker 2: other times I'm like, I miss working on that show
Speaker 2: because there's nothing like it.
Speaker 3: This show is brought to you by the four Finger
Speaker 3: Discount Patreon, where you'll find over one hundred hours of
Speaker 3: bonus podcasts, including exclusive Simpsons reviews and commentaries, as well
Speaker 3: as exclusive episodes of Going Down to South Park, tales
Speaker 3: of Futurama, Bob's Pods, Speaking of the Hill, Talking Sifold,
Speaker 3: the One about Friends, and so much more. So go
Speaker 3: ahead and join the family today at patreon dot com
Speaker 3: slash four Finger Discount. There's one final episode that I
Speaker 3: wanted to just mention before we go to one touch
Speaker 3: on because I wasn't sure whether you worked on it
Speaker 3: or not. I feel like it may have principle and
Speaker 3: the Pauper. Yes, how much did you guys have to
Speaker 3: do with this one? Because this is probably the most
Speaker 3: divisive episode of all time.
Speaker 2: That was one of our episodes.
Speaker 3: I thought it was. It was a carryover from season eight. Yeah,
Speaker 3: so that one that you know that divided the nation
Speaker 3: when it comes to Simpsons.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we had we had no Honestly, we had
Speaker 2: no idea because it's all like it's based on a
Speaker 2: couple of movies, including like the Return of Martin Gear
Speaker 2: and we thought that we're we're soldiers, somebody coming bits
Speaker 2: back from a war and pretends they were this guy
Speaker 2: who they were, and we're just like this is like
Speaker 2: this is That was our principal Skinner episode where like,
Speaker 2: let's explore why he's like that. And we had no
Speaker 2: idea because it's so but I understand why it made
Speaker 2: people mad. That's one of the things where I do
Speaker 2: get it. I do get it where it's so rather
Speaker 2: than like with Flanders, it explains why he is. But
Speaker 2: with Principaun and Popper kind of I can see the
Speaker 2: certain people that it kind of exploded the character and
Speaker 2: that it I can understand how they feel like it
Speaker 2: ruined everything that came before a principal Skinner because now
Speaker 2: you know, he's not really that and he's this guy
Speaker 2: Garb tams here and I get so I get it.
Speaker 2: And like, while I stand by that episode, the trouble
Speaker 2: that it has caused makes me feel like we probably
Speaker 2: just shouldn't have done it, but only for that reason,
Speaker 2: not if I'd stand by like the story and all
Speaker 2: of that, and it has a lot of good jokes,
Speaker 2: but I get, I do get what I mean. It's
Speaker 2: also crazy that a cartoon could enrage people, but that
Speaker 2: episode certainly did.
Speaker 3: But it's more than a cartoon, no, I think, isn't
Speaker 3: it the same thing?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean that's the thing. And as a fan,
Speaker 2: I can understand that because you get so attached to
Speaker 2: these characters that if you're suddenly thrown for a loop
Speaker 2: and go like, what principal Skinner isn't principal Skinner And
Speaker 2: that's a thing too, Whereas like Ned Flanders was always
Speaker 2: Ned Flanders, Like when you see him as a kid,
Speaker 2: that's Ned Flanders, you go, I get it. So I
Speaker 2: get I get why it made people so bad.
Speaker 3: I think people were annoyed because we'd seen in previous
Speaker 3: episodes he having flashbacks to certain things that were thrown
Speaker 3: out the window for the logic of this episode, I think, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it makes you have to it makes you have
Speaker 2: to reassess everything in a new context.
Speaker 3: So yeah, but also I've sort of learned to as
Speaker 3: time went on. I was used to be a stickler
Speaker 3: for Cannon, and then you know, as I said about
Speaker 3: to season twenty one, and we've talked to Matt Salmon,
Speaker 3: who was very anti Cannon. He's like, who cares about Cannon?
Speaker 3: Every episode's in its own vacuum. I think just for
Speaker 3: that first few seasons of The Simpsons, though, canon was
Speaker 3: kind of important because you felt like you were part
Speaker 3: of this universe. It felt like it was real, and
Speaker 3: if canon doesn't exist, then it doesn't no longer, if
Speaker 3: it doesn't really feel us real anymore.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we were weird in between of that, because like
Speaker 2: we were really attached to all the characters and also
Speaker 2: felt we really want to be real, Like the way
Speaker 2: Jim and Matt and Sam created a show is like
Speaker 2: always to be real. So like we were big adherents
Speaker 2: of that, but then the principal Skinner episode kind of
Speaker 2: does it does kind of break those rules. And while
Speaker 2: I get I like, like Matt Salmon, I'll get really
Speaker 2: annoyed at people nippicking things that are ches supposed to
Speaker 2: be a good funny cartoon. So like I'm usually you
Speaker 2: will be on that side. But I also get people
Speaker 2: being attached to the characters because we weren't too.
Speaker 4: I think you have to do a degree of well
Speaker 4: building to a level that makes emotional sense, if not
Speaker 4: necessarily logical sense. Yeah, and if you do something that
Speaker 4: that strips a bit of the way it was sort
Speaker 4: of they phrase a little bit, that's when people start
Speaker 4: to get a bit annoyed.
Speaker 2: That pushes that episode pushes all those all those bounds.
Speaker 2: So if I if I had to do that's that's
Speaker 2: the only there's I will say, and I will I
Speaker 2: will ever say what the episode. There's a couple episodes
Speaker 2: that in season eight that I think we were so
Speaker 2: tired we didn't do as good a job on polishing
Speaker 2: them as we should have. And there's a couple episodes
Speaker 2: that I think didn't come out as well as they
Speaker 2: could have.
Speaker 3: And you don't.
Speaker 2: No, I don't want to say, because it would it
Speaker 2: would be insult the writer whose name is on it.
Speaker 2: And it's more our fault for just like being so
Speaker 2: tired that we're like, oh my god, we can't like
Speaker 2: this episode. Is it came to like we liked every
Speaker 2: episode to be perfect, and those couple of episodes like,
Speaker 2: they're not perfect and if we had more time and
Speaker 2: weren't so tired, we would have made them better.
Speaker 3: And wasn't your final episode? Was that? Lisa the Simpson
Speaker 3: the final one?
Speaker 2: That?
Speaker 3: Yah, that is brilliant with my kids the other day,
Speaker 3: I loved that episode.
Speaker 2: Oh thank you, we want that. That was intentional to
Speaker 2: be our last episode because we wanted to be a
Speaker 2: real family episode and like that like kind of it
Speaker 2: to explain Lisa to herself. So that was the because
Speaker 2: we liked we liked the like envelope pushing weird episodes,
Speaker 2: but we also love the emotional episodes the most, So
Speaker 2: that's why we wanted to go out on that.
Speaker 4: Josh, you do good work.
Speaker 2: Thank thank you.
Speaker 3: But yeah, but as I said, we would love to
Speaker 3: have you on a game because there's so much more
Speaker 3: to discuss.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll talk I'll blab on about any episode, so please.
Speaker 3: We haven't even touched on itching Scratchy and Pucci Sho yet.
Speaker 2: Maybe that can be for the Oh my god, that's
Speaker 2: another one I could go on.
Speaker 3: When you're in that one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was. That was a we'll talk about event.
Speaker 2: That was a real treat to be able to to
Speaker 2: whatever reasons I think writers like to do itchy scratchy episodes.
Speaker 2: Was you got to work yourself into into it.
Speaker 3: Yes, all right, we'll touch on that one the next
Speaker 3: the next time we have you on. But thank you
Speaker 3: so much again, Josh for your time. It's been an
Speaker 3: absolute pleasure.
Speaker 2: All right. Yeah, likewise, thank you, thanks about.
Speaker 4: Josh, and.
Speaker 3: We are back here without Josh Winstein. Unfortunately he is
Speaker 3: East leftist. Oh no, he went back to his home plan.
Speaker 3: He's planet needed him. Fortunately he didn't dine on his
Speaker 3: way back to his home plan. And he shall be
Speaker 3: back here on fourthing a discount in coming months.
Speaker 4: I would hope. So, I mean, I think that was
Speaker 4: it was a really good chat. You you'll think it's
Speaker 4: one of the best we've ever done. I'm inclined to agree.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the guys are so afformative and just he just
Speaker 3: clearly loves the Simpsons, which it just shines through when
Speaker 3: he when he's talking about it. But it's just as
Speaker 3: I said, he was in charge of the show during
Speaker 3: my favorite era, so I was just eating everything he
Speaker 3: had to say out. But I would love to get
Speaker 3: he and Bill On to do Bart versus Australia.
Speaker 4: Well, if anyone can do it, you can.
Speaker 3: You're just you know, make things happen.
Speaker 4: It's like the staff of the Simpsons Pokemon and you've
Speaker 4: got to catch them. We're gonna you like it? Do
Speaker 4: you like how I folded all those references? And I
Speaker 4: thought I did pretty well there for an old fucker bad.
Speaker 3: You know what works about chatting to like, you know,
Speaker 3: just want someone and whatnot. What we've been to the
Speaker 3: table is I'm the fan, but you're also you're sort
Speaker 3: of a similar age them as well, so you you can,
Speaker 3: I don't know, you can engage with them on things.
Speaker 3: References that they're talking about from like the seventies and eighties,
Speaker 3: and you know what the fuck they're talking about. It's
Speaker 3: half the time I don't know they're talking about it.
Speaker 3: But like there was one part during the interview where
Speaker 3: you were talking about you want to know about a
Speaker 3: musical and you're like yes, starlout express and you're like yes,
Speaker 3: And I was like, that's what you've been to the
Speaker 3: table as well, you know, just your plethora of knowledge
Speaker 3: about everything.
Speaker 4: It's good that I'm bringing something to the but no, no,
Speaker 4: you're right. But your your enthusiasm, you know, just really
Speaker 4: really shines through. And I think these guys respond to that.
Speaker 4: But also you know, they find themselves willing to not
Speaker 4: even willing to enthusiastic to share their reminiscences and their
Speaker 4: recollections about you know, what they've done and all that
Speaker 4: kind of stuff. Yeah, what it creates is a really
Speaker 4: good show.
Speaker 3: Hope you guys enjoyed it, like and subscribe. But what
Speaker 3: we're doing now is we're going to be doing our
Speaker 3: full run through because obviously we went for over an
Speaker 3: hour and a half with Josh and I was like,
Speaker 3: it's going to be too long. I felt like I
Speaker 3: was getting laid. I don't want to keep him anymore.
Speaker 3: So we will do our run through now of a
Speaker 3: fish Court, Summer, favorite Moments, trivia, all the fun stuff,
Speaker 3: all the fun stuff, all the fun stuff. Starting with
Speaker 3: favorite moments, My favorite.
Speaker 4: Favorite, Oh, my god, so many in this and look
Speaker 4: I probably.
Speaker 3: Well probably touched on most of them.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we probably did, but you give us a few
Speaker 4: of yours.
Speaker 2: First.
Speaker 3: Well, one of my favorite lines that I quote all
Speaker 3: the time is the movie or the Planet.
Speaker 4: I've got that written down here, So yeah, clearly I
Speaker 4: enjoyed that. Look, anytime Jeff goblins in anything, it's it's
Speaker 4: pretty good value. As I said to Josh, it's really
Speaker 4: good casting because he's pretty much the only man who
Speaker 4: could give Phil Hartman a run for his smamy. Yeah
Speaker 4: you're saying that, Yeah, So yeah, I think Goldwin just
Speaker 4: sort of nails pretty much every every line delivery he
Speaker 4: gives in this.
Speaker 3: I think he really shines through with the line I
Speaker 3: was touching with Josh where he actually sounds like Golden,
Speaker 3: where he goes you and the waif threate the most
Speaker 3: of it. He was talking faster because they asked you
Speaker 3: because everyone else was talking slower.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the way that Troy McClure answers the phone, saying team.
Speaker 5: M C.
Speaker 3: Pick up on that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I have to start answering the phone.
Speaker 3: G D.
Speaker 4: See, I don't know. We alluded to this when we
Speaker 4: spoke with Josh, but just when at the very start
Speaker 4: of the episode where the they're watching it.
Speaker 3: It's called muggets goo medieval.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but what do they call it? Rained out rained
Speaker 4: owt ballgame theater or something. But home is just you know,
Speaker 4: talking about something. So to answer your question, I don't know.
Speaker 4: I've got to start incorporating every day.
Speaker 3: So she says, Dad, what's a muppets?
Speaker 4: Not what a muppet?
Speaker 3: Yeah, So that's what it's like as a parents sometimes. Yeah,
Speaker 3: kids ask a question, you go, I know, I should
Speaker 3: know the answer to this, and you try and make
Speaker 3: sit up, and the more you're making shit up, you go. Look,
Speaker 3: Alie asked the other day, and I should know this.
Speaker 3: Why does rain fall from clouds? How does that happen?
Speaker 3: And I'm going, well, trying to use basic common knowledge.
Speaker 3: He maybe because the all the I don't.
Speaker 4: Know, I want to say condensation.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it all builds up into the clouds and it
Speaker 3: gets too heavy and it all has to come out again.
Speaker 3: And Nicolas goes because the clouds are sad, and I
Speaker 3: was like that that will work. Yeah, but you're a
Speaker 3: big muppet guy, you probably do know this. Why are
Speaker 3: they called muppets and monsters? And puppets, Monsters and puppets. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 3: I think I shouldn't. I should know that you're right
Speaker 3: a little bit of double check, because that's pretty much
Speaker 3: what I've always thought. Why muppets called muppets it is
Speaker 3: the muppet was coined. I'm marrying Nette and puppet and
Speaker 3: the monsters.
Speaker 4: Thanks Google, he would have been going around saying, yeah,
Speaker 4: next time, you're like, why they got Mauppet's not Papa?
Speaker 4: He was it because the monster Puppet's son. Then ten
Speaker 4: years later therapy.
Speaker 3: It was like a dead lion. Why I trusted you
Speaker 3: so marrying it and Pappa? That's why they carried that.
Speaker 2: Again.
Speaker 4: Sorry, this is a lot of stuff that we alluded
Speaker 4: to during our chat with Josh, But I mean I
Speaker 4: really liked the way some came through in this. Yeah.
Speaker 4: I just liked her sort of like it felt very
Speaker 4: grown up and mature, just her approach to sort of
Speaker 4: love and romance and or even just you know, dating.
Speaker 4: I mean you probably already said that, but yeah, thanks
Speaker 4: for holding up your into the bargain. I had a
Speaker 4: pretty good time at the end of the date. It's like,
Speaker 4: that's a really great line. I don't know, Yeah, but.
Speaker 3: It's also the fact that it's like, had a pretty
Speaker 3: good time.
Speaker 4: Great, but also thanks for holding up your into the bargain.
Speaker 3: But it's also she was willing to go through with
Speaker 3: this marriage knowing it was a sham, and once a
Speaker 3: kid was brought the equation, then she went, I can't
Speaker 3: do this.
Speaker 4: Yeah. I think that's one of my favorite parts of
Speaker 4: the episode. Yeah, I guess it folds in the favorite moments.
Speaker 4: But to her saying, you know, it's fine for us,
Speaker 4: and you know you it really reveals some character depth.
Speaker 4: It's like depth and kind of like, yeah, look it's
Speaker 4: a sham, it's fine, but it's a pretty nice set
Speaker 4: up here, you know.
Speaker 3: And jud Job gets his rock in and these are
Speaker 3: two people who.
Speaker 4: If they're not in love, they they kind of seem
Speaker 4: to like each other or they're compatible. Yeah a lot.
Speaker 4: So yeah, it's a really deep and thoughtful episode in
Speaker 4: a lot of ways, and also just being one of
Speaker 4: the funniest. So yeah, that's that's fantastic.
Speaker 3: I also love that that he was taking someone to
Speaker 3: a special screen of his latest movie and it was
Speaker 3: the Mother movie from nineteen seventy seven. So not only
Speaker 3: is it like at this shitty flea market drive in
Speaker 3: right that no one else is there but them? But
Speaker 3: that's his latest movie from nineteen seventy seven. It hasn't
Speaker 3: been a movie since.
Speaker 4: Why is it on rained at ballgame Theater but also
Speaker 4: at the drum? I don't know. I don't know that.
Speaker 4: I'm sure I have otheravorite moments. And as we do,
Speaker 4: we sort of doing a run through. Yeah, of course,
Speaker 4: then more will come up as we go.
Speaker 3: But before that though, trivia trivia.
Speaker 6: Next question, you there eating the Beast.
Speaker 3: My first question for you is I've already spoilt it.
Speaker 3: I would just say it. What year was The Muppets
Speaker 3: Go Medieval released?
Speaker 4: It wasn't nineteen seventy seven?
Speaker 3: Yeah, just said that one. Yeah. Yeah. What is MacArthur
Speaker 3: Parker's agency called representations?
Speaker 4: Right? Yes? Representations? Yes? Yeah, you know you've already sort
Speaker 4: of alluded to this as well. What is the name
Speaker 4: of the full name of the drive in that Troy
Speaker 4: and Sommer.
Speaker 3: Oh, I don't know, and it's highway something.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's Route eighteen, flea market and driving.
Speaker 3: Yes, there we go. Yeah, And finally for me, who
Speaker 3: else has was welcome at the Aphrodite Inn? Welcome Troy
Speaker 3: mccluur of mister and Missus McLure, and it says also,
Speaker 3: oh damn, it was Share and contest winner.
Speaker 4: That's right, Sharing contest with one last question for you.
Speaker 4: Troy turns down the co starring role McBain What McBain four, Yes,
Speaker 4: but it's a McBain four Colon Watts.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 4: Fatal discharge.
Speaker 3: Fatal discharge, all right, unfortunate that with for somebody. Yeah, yes,
Speaker 3: all right. So let's get into our run through of
Speaker 3: a fish Cord Summer, which originally aired March twenty fourth,
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety six, or top three films at the US
Speaker 3: box office at this time. Number three, Die a Bleak,
Speaker 3: You a beleak, you bleek.
Speaker 4: I don't know what that is, one that stars Sharon
Speaker 4: Stone and French goddess Isabelle a Janni and it got
Speaker 4: like an erotic murder mystery.
Speaker 3: Oh okay. And number two is Executive Decision. What a movie?
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, starring Steven Sagre.
Speaker 3: Funny thing is I've got a VHS of Executive Decision
Speaker 3: the other week and it's got to goal on the
Speaker 3: front cover.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, had to remove him.
Speaker 3: Were you annoyed? When when he went then he was killed. No,
Speaker 3: not at all. I think it's pretty bad. It's a
Speaker 3: great it's a good twist. Yeah, at his peak when
Speaker 3: he was actually popular before he went like for karate.
Speaker 3: Is he karate muster now or something?
Speaker 4: I don't know what he's doing.
Speaker 3: And number one is oh, speaking of the Simpsons, the
Speaker 3: bird cage doing his doing his.
Speaker 4: Spanished thick uh and in.
Speaker 3: This episode was written by Jack Barth and directed by
Speaker 3: Mark Kirkland guestar and Phil Hartman's Tropic Clure and Fat
Speaker 3: Tony as we discussed Corey with Josh and Jeff Goblin
Speaker 3: as MacArthur Parker. The couch gave the Simpsons are five
Speaker 3: malfunctioning wind up dolls who buzzed their way to the couch.
Speaker 3: See episode kicks off with the movie for a Rained
Speaker 3: Out Ball Game and it stars Troy McClure, featuring Tropic
Speaker 3: cler and the Muppets, and Lisa then asked Homer, what
Speaker 3: is a muppet? And what is it?
Speaker 4: Guy? What is a muppet? It's a marionette par a
Speaker 4: monsterous puppet. By the way, have you have you seen
Speaker 4: need to be heard about this? Probably, but apparently Jennifer
Speaker 4: Lawrence and Emma Stone are collaborating to do a Miss
Speaker 4: Piggy solo project, Miss Piggy movie. Emma Stone and who
Speaker 4: Jennifer Lawrence. They're like working behind the scenes to so
Speaker 4: that they're not going to be in it, or they're
Speaker 4: going to be in it. No, I think Emmistone might producing.
Speaker 4: I think Jennif Lawrence might.
Speaker 2: Be in it.
Speaker 3: The Muppets is one of those franchises, one of those
Speaker 3: licenses that Disney have just never been able to work out.
Speaker 3: You know, they were a big success throughout the eighties, nineties,
Speaker 3: right and seventies as well late seventies, but since Disney
Speaker 3: took over it, they never seem to know what to
Speaker 3: do with it.
Speaker 4: Did you like the Jason Siegal movie.
Speaker 3: I actually really liked that movie. I thought it was
Speaker 3: great and the kids love it as well. Muppets Most
Speaker 3: Wanted is a lot of fun as well. But apparently
Speaker 3: Muppets Most Wanted didn't do too well so which is
Speaker 3: why they didn't do a third one, which is a shame.
Speaker 3: But when it comes to like the TV show they
Speaker 3: tried that Muppets, it was more like the Office kind
Speaker 3: of style and it was more adult based kind of comedy,
Speaker 3: and I don't know, I just didn't just didn't work
Speaker 3: for me. The Muppets need to be just go back
Speaker 3: to the classic style of in the Muppet Theater, and
Speaker 3: I think kids would enjoy that now. I think parents
Speaker 3: would enjoy watching it with their kids because it feels
Speaker 3: like there's not much content out there that you can
Speaker 3: watch that's wholesome for more. Yeah, adult adults and kids
Speaker 3: can enjoy. But what do you think.
Speaker 4: Well, look, I'm not a huge Muppets guy. Certainly, when
Speaker 4: I was kid on the Muppet Show on TV was
Speaker 4: like pretty huge. I mean, you know, I was attracting big,
Speaker 4: big stars to be part of it. I think people
Speaker 4: recognize Jim Henson's you know, creativity and imagination. Just wanted
Speaker 4: to be in the sphere of that. So look, it's
Speaker 4: all a matter of finding the right people to be behind.
Speaker 4: Some people who really dig the Muppets and also have
Speaker 4: It's like we say about the Simpsons, like, oh, you
Speaker 4: get writers and creative people like I really want to
Speaker 4: be part of the Simpsons, but they've grown up on
Speaker 4: the Simpsons. You need to have creative interest outside it,
Speaker 4: you know, you need to appreciation for what you're working on,
Speaker 4: but also you need to bring something else to the
Speaker 4: table as well. It can't be just like I want
Speaker 4: to do Muppets like the way I saw Muppets, like
Speaker 4: I bring something else to it as well, bringing a
Speaker 4: bigger spark.
Speaker 3: This show is brought to you by the Forefinger Discount Patreon,
Speaker 3: where you'll find over one hundred hours of bonus podcasts,
Speaker 3: including exclusive Simpsons reviews and commentaries, as well as exclusive
Speaker 3: episodes of Going Down to South Park, Tales of Futurama,
Speaker 3: Bob's Pods, Speaking of the Hill, Talking Sifould, The One
Speaker 3: About Friends, and so much more. To go ahead and
Speaker 3: join the family today at patreon dot com Slash four
Speaker 3: figure discount. Do white kids really love the Sing Movies?
Speaker 3: And I watched this This is just the fucking Muppet Show.
Speaker 3: There's just people up on stage just doing cover songs.
Speaker 4: So they didn't get the people who make the sing
Speaker 4: movies to do it.
Speaker 3: It's just like watching the Muppet Show.
Speaker 4: Trying to slap shit together and make it all work.
Speaker 4: I've never watched the Sing movies, but yeah, so that's
Speaker 4: what it is. It's like it's on a show and
Speaker 4: you've got people behind the scenes like let's put it
Speaker 4: on a show. Ah, the stage is falling over. Oh
Speaker 4: so and so hasn't shown up, and occasionally someone will
Speaker 4: get up and sing.
Speaker 3: So basically sing is a koala who I believe he
Speaker 3: owes money or he's wanted to be a big successful
Speaker 3: like Broadway director, not working out for him, and then
Speaker 3: he gets a bunch of rag tag you know, rejects
Speaker 3: of people who ordinary people who have talent but haven't
Speaker 3: got the maybe the appearance, or haven't just got the
Speaker 3: the avenue to become stars. And they all put together
Speaker 3: this show and people gather at the end they're like, oh,
Speaker 3: you guys are really talent. You guys are great, and
Speaker 3: to start singing cover songs of just you know, shake
Speaker 3: it Off and these other I wanted my Way, and
Speaker 3: it's like this.
Speaker 4: Is literally what the Muppet Show used to be. Cool, Okay,
Speaker 4: that works. And those thing movies, well how many of they.
Speaker 3: Made like two and then making a third one I believe. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So the clue is an audience, yes, there is, indeed,
Speaker 4: but there is not an audience apparently for Tromicclure or
Speaker 4: the Muppets go Medieval. What a well done segue, way
Speaker 4: on your pat.
Speaker 3: I would watch this movie. There were a lot of
Speaker 3: There were a lot of these movies. It was just
Speaker 3: the Muppets with so and so. Yeah, the Muppets Take Manhattan.
Speaker 3: That was a TV I think I was released in
Speaker 3: film in cinemas, yeah, yeah, But I only ever saw it.
Speaker 3: My name taped it off TV. So I always saw
Speaker 3: it as like a TV movie because it doesn't feel
Speaker 3: like a big budget movie. But because you know, I
Speaker 3: found out it was later on. But because Frank Cole's
Speaker 3: directed that one believe ye, But I saw it. My
Speaker 3: only knowledge of it moving when I was a kid
Speaker 3: was Nan tapping off the TV. There's always those commercial
Speaker 3: breaks throughut and I'm like, oh, this must have been
Speaker 3: a TV movie then, but no, it's not right.
Speaker 4: Muppet Caper, Muppy Christmas, Carol, Upper Treasure Island.
Speaker 3: I fell off after My Treasure. I never I never
Speaker 3: saw it. I never saw it.
Speaker 4: Tim carry in.
Speaker 3: What am I doing? I look about themuppets.
Speaker 4: Though we were now returning to Fish called Selm, We're
Speaker 4: already in progress.
Speaker 3: That Bart thinks that trou mcclauw, who's that guy made
Speaker 3: a leather and it's actually trauma claw and Marge explains
Speaker 3: that he was once a teen heart throb in the seventies,
Speaker 3: which is the first time I've ever mentioned or heard
Speaker 3: Marge mention that he was like a heart thriber. We've
Speaker 3: always just seen him as this is, as a washedout,
Speaker 3: washed up guy. But no, apparently he was a heart
Speaker 3: throb back in the day. And Homer brings up, who'd
Speaker 3: have thought he'd become such a weirdo, And we find
Speaker 3: out why in just a few moments, and they discussed
Speaker 3: the weird things he does at the aquarium and Marsha,
Speaker 3: it's just an over legend. Reminded me of the Jobel.
Speaker 3: It's a very much the Richard gear story. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: which is still to this day bizarre. People don't do
Speaker 3: that kind of thing of fish. March says. It's one
Speaker 3: of those things where it's like, you know it might
Speaker 3: be true, but you'd rather believe it's not. Oh sure,
Speaker 3: but it just shatters the illusion of this hero that
Speaker 3: you had, or this heart throat that you had when
Speaker 3: you're growing up.
Speaker 4: Oh look, well, not far from now, not long from now,
Speaker 4: we're about to record the movie Guy with Marlton Davis.
Speaker 4: We're going to be talking about the grew of Eddie Murphy. Yeah,
Speaker 4: roller coaster, and he's got some stuff in his personal life. Yeah,
Speaker 4: we either sort of memory hole, We're just like, oh,
Speaker 4: that's bullshit, or or we're just going I choose to
Speaker 4: believe that doesn't happen with Jackson. Fans Saxon Jackson, Yeah,
Speaker 4: don't be ignorat as much, says he's a perfect gentleman,
Speaker 4: like Bing Crosby or JFK, who were both known for
Speaker 4: what being legendary pantsman shall we say, Yeah, unfaithful, infidelity,
Speaker 4: all that kind.
Speaker 3: Of stuff exactly, And she wonders what he's doing now,
Speaker 3: and it cuts to Troy driving his I love this.
Speaker 3: We forgot to mention this with Josh the Dolorean. Oh yeah,
Speaker 3: it just it just seems to fit in right back
Speaker 3: when he was a big star, like late seventies, you know, earlierighties,
Speaker 3: having a Dolouri would have been the fucking coolest thing
Speaker 3: in the world, right, Yeah, would you drive a Doloreian?
Speaker 3: Now you if you had the ability to drive a Doloreian,
Speaker 3: would you do it?
Speaker 4: I would do it once. I would not own a door.
Speaker 4: I think it's a kin to what I think. It's
Speaker 4: a kin to owning, say like a cyber truck.
Speaker 3: Well, I don't know. I feel like it's one of
Speaker 3: those things where if you drive a Dolorian around, everyone's
Speaker 3: gonna be looking at you the entire time. You're never
Speaker 3: going to get a chance. You can't just part a
Speaker 3: Dolarey in the Safeway car park.
Speaker 4: Here's the thing. We're both from Geelong. Yeah, it's it's
Speaker 4: a it's a regional city. It's not necessarily a small town,
Speaker 4: but that there is there at least maybe two or
Speaker 4: three residents of this place where we leavest this Yeah,
Speaker 4: who have either a Lamboat or a Ferrari. And it's like, no,
Speaker 4: you don't drive that here. You can top out at
Speaker 4: a Porsche. That's a that's as exotic as you get
Speaker 4: with a sports car. Here, maybe a Maserati because they
Speaker 4: seem fairly sort of.
Speaker 3: Low key, and you're also asking for trouble if your driving.
Speaker 4: Ask you park that ship of Dan Murphy's yet, Fuck,
Speaker 4: you're getting so cy.
Speaker 3: And it just looks weird. Ri I mean next to
Speaker 3: hender XL pretty.
Speaker 4: Much out of my way kya.
Speaker 3: But love on the back of his dolor and he's
Speaker 3: got a bumper Stiket says, joined me at the Springfield
Speaker 3: Aquarium and he's crashing into various cars and he gets
Speaker 3: put over by Wigham and he opens the door door
Speaker 3: hits him in the head because they go up obviously,
Speaker 3: and I'm seeing stars here, No, just one, and he
Speaker 3: brings up, so we should name all the movies to
Speaker 3: find the greatest story that ever Hulard and they came to.
Speaker 4: Burgle Carnie Hall. That's the one that I read, because
Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, I agree. From the seventies when and
Speaker 4: seventies and eighties, but there were millions of movies like this,
Speaker 4: and they would show them all the time on your
Speaker 4: three or four TV channels, and you ended up watching them.
Speaker 4: As I said to you, you're in Josh, I mean,
Speaker 4: as I said during our interview with Josh. And when
Speaker 4: we've spoken to other people who create the show who
Speaker 4: are sort of more of my vintage. When you grow
Speaker 4: up and you've got less sort of or you've got
Speaker 4: exposure to everything, it's like, all this works and this
Speaker 4: is shit, and I know what to do and what.
Speaker 3: Not to do, and everyone was exposed to the same things.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, you wouldn't choose Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: All right, Captain rash rash out of the car. Oh,
Speaker 2: I'm seeing stars here, No just one.
Speaker 6: I am try McClure, you may remember me from such
Speaker 6: films as the greatest story ever hulaed And they came
Speaker 6: to Burglar Carnegie.
Speaker 2: Ha ah fred N.
Speaker 3: I also liked to hear too that it's kind of
Speaker 3: sad for McClure. He's like, may I remember me from
Speaker 3: this week? And I was like, A, still, you have
Speaker 3: to ask for your license and he says he has
Speaker 3: to wear his glasses as pro's license where this is
Speaker 3: a crime against nature, and he puts on. He goes
Speaker 3: he he you look like kind of a nerd. Look,
Speaker 3: I'll rip up your ticket, but make sure you go
Speaker 3: do an eye test.
Speaker 4: But he still, I'm sure going to have to ask
Speaker 4: you for a bride.
Speaker 3: Out the d m V, Grandpa thinks that Patty and
Speaker 3: Summer are both March and they say, why do we
Speaker 3: always get these widows coming to DMV. They go all
Speaker 3: the Chippendale dances aren't pulling with each other, and Grandpa
Speaker 3: is annoyed because he wanted his license revoked. I wanted
Speaker 3: this revote. Then McClure enters and Hibbit surprised he'd be there,
Speaker 3: and this week get the moment we're discussing where Phil
Speaker 3: Hartman actually voices fat Tony. If you watch it now
Speaker 3: knowing that you go and actually sounds quite different to
Speaker 3: Joe doing fat Tony.
Speaker 2: Hey, I thought you said try McClue was dead. No,
Speaker 2: what I said was he sleeps with the fishes. You
Speaker 2: see Coney Please No, I just stayed a whole pleated.
Speaker 3: Ding my gul, ding gammago? What is that?
Speaker 4: I think I've said in the past My secret shame
Speaker 4: is that I haven't actually watched the Sopranos really. Yeah, ever,
Speaker 4: I've seen some episodes of it, but I need to
Speaker 4: watch it all the way through blue. That's my that's
Speaker 4: my twenty twenty six project.
Speaker 3: It's worth it. Yeah, but they actually I did look
Speaker 3: it up as actually isn't made up. There's possibly a
Speaker 3: reference to pasta fazoo.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and there's also gabba gul which they talk about
Speaker 4: on me, which I'm assuming is some kind.
Speaker 3: Of dish that something you eat.
Speaker 4: What do they call it? What do they call it?
Speaker 3: I just dingo dinga magoo, I said, all pleat of
Speaker 3: dinga magool. Someone can't believe he's there though, but and
Speaker 3: he isn't wearing his glasses, and he thinks he's really
Speaker 3: attractive until he puts his glasses on, and he's like oh,
Speaker 3: and he says you may remember from oh. She remembers
Speaker 3: him from such films as Mit, Joe Blow and Give
Speaker 3: My Remains to Broadway. Then he says stars like him,
Speaker 3: though she starts him that wear glasses, and Patty thinks
Speaker 3: he's gross. She thinks this is like, this interaction is
Speaker 3: gross because Paty's always been not loveless, but she's just
Speaker 3: affection in every way. But she says, read the top line.
Speaker 3: It's just the letter eat. You can't read it. Puts
Speaker 3: his glasses on, and this is I was discussing this
Speaker 3: with Josh. I love the reading here from Phil where
Speaker 3: he's like, listen, miss Boovia and takes the glasses bake
Speaker 3: off again, and he says, you were a payer. If
Speaker 3: she passes him, you take her for dinner. She passed him.
Speaker 3: That took a lot of class. Now at Pimento Grove
Speaker 3: and the various stars are on the wall, and I
Speaker 3: like that a lot of the stars are previous guest
Speaker 3: stars as well. Titoe, Tom Cruse, who didn't actually guest star,
Speaker 3: but he's been on The Simpsons. He was in isn't
Speaker 3: the deleted scene I believe from the Spring the gambling
Speaker 3: episode because rain Man, right, yeah, And because I had
Speaker 3: no idea what was going on in that deleted scene,
Speaker 3: because they showed deleted scenes in one hundred and thirtyeth
Speaker 3: them so spectacular, and it's just this guy going and
Speaker 3: I'm like, what the hell is going on? Rain Man?
Speaker 3: But as a kid, I'm like, what is going on here?
Speaker 3: But then Barry White is there, Liz Taylor, Bet Midler, Nimoy,
Speaker 3: Adam Wes Sting, David Crosby, k Brian, James Woods, and
Speaker 3: Troy is where on the toilet on the cat door,
Speaker 3: Well on the cat door, So yes, the cat door
Speaker 3: of the toilet. I believe of something. Yeah. Then they
Speaker 3: start some small talk and she's getting repetitive stressed, sort
Speaker 3: from scratching it but all day. And then she sees
Speaker 3: the conversation more towards him, and he says has been
Speaker 3: reading a lot of scripts. It's cheaper than going to
Speaker 3: the movie. Every line he says in this episode is
Speaker 3: a zinger. Oh yeah, I don't think there's a line
Speaker 3: here where it doesn't end with the punchline, so it's amazing.
Speaker 3: They leave and she thanks him for holding of his
Speaker 3: end of the bar. Had a pretty good time at least,
Speaker 3: he's honest. Looks like it was five.
Speaker 4: It's like her expectations are a low.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I had a pretty good time. Yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: But also we need to acknowledge that through all of
Speaker 3: his faults, Troy did come through. He said, if I
Speaker 3: will take you to dinner, if you pass me, he
Speaker 3: could have easily just walked out forgotten about it, so
Speaker 3: he took it to dinner. He's insincere, but he's got integrity. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Then the photographers see him with a woman and it
Speaker 3: gives him a little he's a little something for page
Speaker 3: and it cuts to what page ten, and I love
Speaker 3: the headline here they give for this part of the
Speaker 3: celebrity gossip. It's Troy a little tenderness, oh yeah yeah.
Speaker 3: And at the bottom, look he's drug and it's just
Speaker 3: Rainiew wolf Castle. Then Lenny and Carl see this in
Speaker 3: the newspaper at the at the power plant and Homa
Speaker 3: doesn't believe it. No, there's no way he's washed up.
Speaker 3: Movie Stough she'd be dating washed up supermodels, and Carl says,
Speaker 3: oh no, I'd paid the scene in a movie. Now,
Speaker 3: if only that were possible. Has there been ever been
Speaker 3: actors who had some sort of controversy and their movie career.
Speaker 3: Kevin Spacey be a big one, obviously, wouldn't he, And
Speaker 3: it's just their career just.
Speaker 4: Died pretty much. Yeah, there are people they mentioned later
Speaker 4: in this episode. It's like they mentioned Hugh Grant and
Speaker 4: Rob Low of course.
Speaker 3: Yeah, those sick freaks, those sick freaks, but I mean,
Speaker 3: but they make comebacks, oh definitely. So their things was
Speaker 3: just they're being young where.
Speaker 4: And Hugh Grant, you know, Hugh Grant was like there
Speaker 4: was a prostitute, right yeah, getting a BJ from a
Speaker 4: sex worker and he played it perfectly.
Speaker 3: Who among us, right, yeah?
Speaker 4: Exactly? Who would say not to know that, Elizabeth Early,
Speaker 4: I'm going down sunset all of that.
Speaker 3: It was a Jay Lender that said, what were you thinking?
Speaker 4: It's great? Yeah, that's and That's what I'm about to say.
Speaker 4: Yeah did he Yeah, played it just right. He sort
Speaker 4: of not faced the head on, but he did. He
Speaker 4: weaponized the Hugh Grant charms.
Speaker 2: I don't know what it was he.
Speaker 3: Didn even say anything, what were you thinking?
Speaker 4: You're just like, oh goodness me, what a blunder. So, yeah,
Speaker 4: Space is probably the one. And even he's sort of
Speaker 4: made a few, he's made a few very sort of
Speaker 4: cheap movies in the in the interim.
Speaker 3: Well, he tried various sort of not comebacks, but tried
Speaker 3: to sort of put himself back in the spotlight and
Speaker 3: they were just terrible. Well he keeps trying it as well,
Speaker 3: trying as the House of Cards character, and you're like, no, yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And he's actually he gave a recent interview where
Speaker 4: he's saying, yeah, oh look, I'm broken, homeless, living in Airbnb's,
Speaker 4: at which point someone said to be living in an
Speaker 4: Nbnb's and not.
Speaker 3: Broke, but and you also, what did you do with
Speaker 3: all of your money?
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's apparently really really rich. But he was also saying,
Speaker 4: I've been talking with people in Hollywood and there are
Speaker 4: a lot of higher level people who are saying, yeah, look,
Speaker 4: we want you back in movies. It just and you say,
Speaker 4: it just takes one. It's just like Monks says, you're
Speaker 4: Quentin Tarantine to put me in a movie, and then
Speaker 4: you know Tarantine and tilta. Yeah, oh well he didn't
Speaker 4: have a controverse, but his career was just waning. Yeah,
Speaker 4: pretty much. But I don't know, it just seemed like,
Speaker 4: come on, guys, help help given space outs Like I
Speaker 4: don't know, I think we've got people who can do
Speaker 4: what you do, only better. Okay.
Speaker 3: But this next scene here I really liked because it's
Speaker 3: the theory of McClure's house right as it's for sale
Speaker 3: by owner and it's a from an iconic movie one
Speaker 3: of your Men, from Your.
Speaker 4: Man, it's from Body Double. Yeah, yeah, I need you
Speaker 4: love this movie. Oh yeah, yeah, what's what's it called?
Speaker 4: The movie is called Body Dub.
Speaker 3: They know that the house.
Speaker 4: Oh it's called I want to say that the chemisphere.
Speaker 3: Is that correct? That's correct? Yeah, okay. It's just a
Speaker 3: great example of references that you know, you look at
Speaker 3: it and as a kid, you go, that's a weird
Speaker 3: looking house. But if it seems like it just it feels.
Speaker 4: Like a house that McClure would design, like yeah, well,
Speaker 4: like a movie star would buy. It's like, yeah, I've
Speaker 4: made it, you know. Yeah, I need the house I
Speaker 4: live in to sort of reflect my high opinion myself
Speaker 4: in the opinion that people haven't.
Speaker 3: Yeah, has a house from Buddy Double.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there are a few houses in LA that I
Speaker 4: kind of like that. I mean there's that one that's
Speaker 4: in Tim Allen lives in Galaxy Quiest as well. I
Speaker 4: don't know if it's the same house, but it's feel
Speaker 4: similar to similar design.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, But Macartha Parker then calls him.
Speaker 4: Troy, my man.
Speaker 1: It's MacArthur Parker, MacArthur Parker, the agent, MacArthur Parker, my agent.
Speaker 7: Just checking in, my friend. So, how's my favorite client.
Speaker 7: We haven't spoken in eight years. Yes, so I saw
Speaker 7: the papers today, Troy looking good. That wholesome stuff really
Speaker 7: helps when I'm trying to find your work.
Speaker 6: You haven't found me working twelve years.
Speaker 3: Oh you Joy, Judy is work.
Speaker 7: And listen, you keep getting seen in public with human
Speaker 7: females and I can get you work in the entertainment industry.
Speaker 6: Hello, Selma Bouvier. It's Troy McLure. You may remember me
Speaker 6: from such dates as last night's dinner.
Speaker 3: And we touched on this with Josh. I love how
Speaker 3: just the you may remember me has just become part
Speaker 3: of his everyday vernacular. Absolutely, it's just it's who he is.
Speaker 4: Now, Yeah, and you saw that, you know, when someone
Speaker 4: said I remember you from such films as It's like, oh, okay,
Speaker 4: well at least two might have you know, they might
Speaker 4: be lined.
Speaker 2: That's true.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but now at ugly U G L I. And
Speaker 3: this is where it kicks off of Troy laughing, you know,
Speaker 3: uproarsley at an anecdote. Now you tell one.
Speaker 6: I can't remember when I've heard a funnier anecdote.
Speaker 3: Okay, now you tell one.
Speaker 1: Well, not much happens to me, but I once had
Speaker 1: dinner with a movie star and it was the most
Speaker 1: wonderful night of my life.
Speaker 2: Really, who was it?
Speaker 6: Jordan Siegel? I hear he plays the banjo.
Speaker 7: Excuse me, I ordered a zema, not emphysema.
Speaker 2: Please don't smoke in our restaurant. We don't serve contemporary
Speaker 2: California cuisine. In your lungs.
Speaker 3: Til I'm sorry, I ruined her evening.
Speaker 2: I have to gone. My god, I'm such a.
Speaker 3: Fool, gotta late. Yeah, I'm just saying I feel really
Speaker 3: sorry for someone here because you get the impor she
Speaker 3: gets the impression that he wants to be with her,
Speaker 3: when really you know, he's only using for your career.
Speaker 3: But I think as the night goes on and as
Speaker 3: time goes on, as he said, I think he just
Speaker 3: grows to actually like having her around as much as
Speaker 3: he's just using her, and she's you know, she's what's
Speaker 3: the term beneficial to his career? He still wants somebody around.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I think it's like initially thinking, look, we've
Speaker 4: got we've got an agreement here, we've got a good
Speaker 4: thing going here.
Speaker 3: Do you think he's a lonely character.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I think so.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think think he enjoys his own company,
Speaker 3: but also I feel like he just is now enjoyed.
Speaker 4: I think he's lonely, but I think he likes having
Speaker 4: people around a sort of bask in his glory.
Speaker 3: Yeah that's true.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and remind him that he's try McClure, so he
Speaker 4: needs someone quite specific.
Speaker 3: But as the episode went on, it felt like someone
Speaker 3: was less busting in his glory. And she's just like,
Speaker 3: I just like being around you as opposed to oh
Speaker 3: my god, you're Trum mc clure and it's just oh no,
Speaker 3: you're just Troy. Well, it's what makes me the episode good.
Speaker 3: And is that complications? Like I think she likes the
Speaker 3: spoilers of war, so to speak. I think she likes
Speaker 3: the big house and the attention and all that kind
Speaker 3: of stuff. But yeah, you also it's like I'm in
Speaker 3: a relationship. I'm with someone, you know, and it's not Yeah,
Speaker 3: they're not separate from one another.
Speaker 4: They're kind of they're a unit, they're a pair, they
Speaker 4: are a couple.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but yeah, it could be better. I'd like two.
Speaker 3: When I were walking in there, He's like, that's right, boys,
Speaker 3: Troy's back from the gutter, and had he brought someone
Speaker 3: with him. But after that date and now the Simpsons house,
Speaker 3: someone thinks that they're both jealous of her, and he
Speaker 3: says that he's taken her to a special screening of
Speaker 3: his latest film, which again is Muppet's Go Media from
Speaker 3: nineteen seventy seven, at the Route eighteenth flea market and
Speaker 3: driving as you were saying, close with Demolition on Saturday. Yes,
Speaker 3: the only one's there watching the movie. It's kind of
Speaker 3: sad that you know that he's just his last film
Speaker 3: was also was only twenty years ago before this episode there,
Speaker 3: but twenty years ago. He's sitting there by himself, and
Speaker 3: but I did like the fact that he was copying
Speaker 3: the dialogue from the movie, and then she was as well.
Speaker 3: And then before they both kiss, he spraysed some breath
Speaker 3: threshener into her mouth. We come back with a news
Speaker 3: report and apparently this guy's meant to be John Tesh.
Speaker 3: I don't know who John Tesh is. He was the
Speaker 3: host of Entertainment Tonight. Oh, speaking of entertainment tonight, Leond Moulton,
Speaker 3: a movie guy with Maltlon Davis.
Speaker 4: Indeed, well, you can run that past when we record our.
Speaker 3: Next to Yes episode. Yes, he can't believe you. What
Speaker 3: the verdict was male fraud and Leper in the backfield.
Speaker 3: And we get a clip on Leper in the backfield
Speaker 3: here and they say he's got he's up for some
Speaker 3: choice roles now because he's been seen with an actual
Speaker 3: woman and she says, looks like you're Does he say
Speaker 3: to her or she say to him, looks like you're
Speaker 3: wrong when you called him a washed up DV right,
Speaker 3: I think he said that to the woman.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Then Salma is now moving into Troy's place, and Troy
Speaker 3: brings out Jubjub. He's fantastic, He's everywhere you want to be.
Speaker 3: I did like the Jubjub just didn't become a forgotten
Speaker 3: character because he was introduced as for a child. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and he's still a part of Salema's life, which was
Speaker 3: very important. He shows off the house. It's fantastic and
Speaker 3: we get various posters here. So incident at noon my
Speaker 3: Darling beef Eater with Dolores Montenegro and Astro heist on
Speaker 3: Gemini three And as I was telling Josh, in the
Speaker 3: iconic virtual Springfield game, there is redesigned posts for a Yeah,
Speaker 3: then what are the one of the things he tells
Speaker 3: it gubbage collection is Monday. If you want to throt
Speaker 3: a box, you have to cut it up. Do you
Speaker 3: do this? You the boxes to fit more stuff in
Speaker 3: you're cycling. This is like a life hack that my
Speaker 3: next one name only taught me like last year, because
Speaker 3: he used to used to just chuck boxes in. It's
Speaker 3: like they rip it up and something fit more. Like,
Speaker 3: holy shit, I have I gone the first thirty four
Speaker 3: years of my life not doing this.
Speaker 4: It's amazing.
Speaker 3: She thinks his house is ultra modern and he shows
Speaker 3: her the aquarium bedroom but he's going to be sleeping
Speaker 3: downstairs and the visitor center and he reminds me about
Speaker 3: the Tens turns it tomorrow. It comes on at ten.
Speaker 3: This show is brought to you by the four Fingure
Speaker 3: discount Patreon, where you'll find over one hundred hours of
Speaker 3: bonus podcasts, including exclusive Simpsons reviews and commentaries, as well
Speaker 3: as exclusive episodes of Going Down to South Park, Tales
Speaker 3: of Futurama, Bob's Pods, Speaking of the Hill, Talking Sifould,
Speaker 3: the One about Friends, and so much more. So go
Speaker 3: ahead and join the family today at patreon dot com
Speaker 3: slash four fingure Discout. Then MacArthur Parker calls up about
Speaker 3: the Planet of the Apes the movie or the Planet
Speaker 3: as the part. He says, You're gonna be starring as
Speaker 3: the human as the part who's born to play baby,
Speaker 3: and we cut to stop the Planet of the Apes.
Speaker 3: I want to get off, which is just one of
Speaker 3: the most iconic Simpsons bits of all time. I think
Speaker 3: it's really really good. Yeah, we went really in depth
Speaker 3: with Josh, but just even the story of how they
Speaker 3: made it come together. It was like one line that
Speaker 3: I think was David Merkan or Davis Cohen Chimpanee Chimpanzee
Speaker 3: was straight. It was like, Okay, we have to make
Speaker 3: this way there.
Speaker 4: You build it around that absolutely, Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but if you can think of that, that's the
Speaker 3: core of this. Yeah. And just as you were saying,
Speaker 3: I thought it was a great comment by you as
Speaker 3: well with Josh, how you're saying these gags felt like
Speaker 3: they were already out there, you just have to pick them, yeah, said.
Speaker 3: And it's just like the doctor zais rhyming with Amadaeus.
Speaker 3: It's like, how nobody thought this.
Speaker 4: Look at this beautiful low hanging fruit.
Speaker 3: It must be so exciting when he caught something so
Speaker 3: clever and so obvious, but it's never been done before.
Speaker 3: You're ship.
Speaker 1: I hate every eight by se from Jimpane to Chimpanzee. No,
Speaker 1: you'll never make a monkey out of me.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I was wrong all along.
Speaker 5: You finally made a monkey.
Speaker 3: Yes, finally made monkey.
Speaker 5: Yes, you finally made.
Speaker 1: I love you, doctor Sam, thank you. It's great to
Speaker 1: be back. I just want to say I wouldn't be
Speaker 1: here without the support of a very special lady, my
Speaker 1: always outrageous fiance, Salma. Take about sugar Beet, about it run?
Speaker 3: What is your favorite part about it?
Speaker 5: All?
Speaker 3: The whole thing? I love the Oh, it's probably not
Speaker 3: to play the piano. That's great, that is fantastic.
Speaker 4: Just think, I said to Josh, I love how it
Speaker 4: closes out on Jose.
Speaker 3: I love you doctor, which is yeah, broad which you
Speaker 3: need You need.
Speaker 4: To either close the first aid or just close the
Speaker 4: show with someone just declaring something. It's like it doesn't
Speaker 4: really mean anything.
Speaker 3: But the down in front is also fantastic coming up, isn't it?
Speaker 4: Oh my god?
Speaker 3: Thanks, he's beautiful fiance. He's always outrageous fiance.
Speaker 4: I love Dram mclue, but he's a douche.
Speaker 3: Down in front is just like the permanent. But isn't
Speaker 3: it well, omer can't be happy for it? But also
Speaker 3: the acting here too, I feel Phil Hartmon genuinely sounds
Speaker 3: like he's exhausted. I like to think like he's jogged
Speaker 3: on the spot fly just before doing this spiel. This
Speaker 3: sounds exhausting.
Speaker 4: It's great.
Speaker 3: But now back at Troy's place and the kids are
Speaker 3: now playing in the pool. My face paid for that
Speaker 3: pool and my talent filled it with water. Hi, I'm
Speaker 3: Troy McClure, your future uncle, and Lisa remembers him from
Speaker 3: such film strips as Locker Room Tower Fight, The Blinding
Speaker 3: of Larry, it's great. Should you describe to explain what
Speaker 3: that is?
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, I guess it doesn't really happen in school anymore,
Speaker 4: maybe even when you were at school.
Speaker 3: But I mean you get in trouble if you did it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh yeah when you just yeah, you'd have a tower,
Speaker 4: you'd be able to fashion your towel and do a whip.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you'd just whip someone on the butt. Don't
Speaker 3: chase me a full chocolate, don't make me run a
Speaker 3: full kid's got bosoms.
Speaker 4: Yeah, if you really want to go hardcore, you used
Speaker 4: a wet towel.
Speaker 3: Yeah, wet towels were insane. Oh no, it's a lethal weapon,
Speaker 3: it is. But some are in Margin they're just chatting.
Speaker 3: I liked hear the designs and Margins wearing a much
Speaker 3: more plain just Kmart swimsuit and an Ancho swimsuit where
Speaker 3: someone was wearing this very movie stars it up. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 3: And as girls, we dream always dream of having the
Speaker 3: idea of husband who knew it would come true for
Speaker 3: one of us. Guess which one seldom?
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's not a heel turned by someone, but she's
Speaker 4: starting to sort of buy into the whole Hollywood. Yeah,
Speaker 4: the whole show biz myth and yeah, the fact that
Speaker 4: do you think it makes it better? Her proximity to
Speaker 4: fame makes her better than everybody else.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's actually a deleted scene which makes this next
Speaker 3: scene make more sense. So we're at Most and Homer
Speaker 3: and Troy just randomly they're getting drunk together. What that
Speaker 3: was was actually a bit of a subplot here where
Speaker 3: Marge asked Homer to take to organize Troy's bachelor party.
Speaker 3: Oh okay, and thats all the the bachelor party was
Speaker 3: at MOS. So that's why that at Most it's the
Speaker 3: end of the bachelor party. Because I've always sort of thought,
Speaker 3: why is Troy having to be with Homer there doesn't
Speaker 3: really talk. Maybe you'd like to sort of create the
Speaker 3: idea in here, maybe someone said go hang out with
Speaker 3: Homer or that kind of thing. But that's why because
Speaker 3: there was deleted story, deleted scene. He wat your deleted
Speaker 3: scenes on the DVD where Marge says organize the bachelor
Speaker 3: party and it's with the Pooh and whatnot. At at
Speaker 3: Most interesting discussion us discussing here potential film ideas. There's
Speaker 3: already a lot of films on World War Two, nuts
Speaker 3: a little bit Dracula. Then he says, you know what,
Speaker 3: you'll be a four star brother in law. And then
Speaker 3: Homer says, why are you even marrying someone?
Speaker 2: Like, what's that?
Speaker 3: What's the deal? He reveals his secret and he whispers
Speaker 3: in his ear, and Homer's immediately that's why it's a
Speaker 3: great home, because even home is like, I need to
Speaker 3: do something about this. As much as somewhere annoys me,
Speaker 3: I can't let her go through with this. So the
Speaker 3: wedding is now at the Botanical Gardens. Lady told you, yes,
Speaker 3: just wants to get married to the guy. Lovejoy then
Speaker 3: asked if anyone knows why these two shouldn't be married,
Speaker 3: and a customer Homer singing, what in his head?
Speaker 4: Is it?
Speaker 3: Rock and wrong?
Speaker 4: Yeah? Interesting that an episode about a canceled movie star
Speaker 4: would have a music to you buy a canceled rock star?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Was he canceled by this point though? Gary Glitter?
Speaker 3: I don't know if it was by this day.
Speaker 4: But look, if I don't know about Gary Glitter, google
Speaker 4: Gary Glitter.
Speaker 3: And that that song was. That song is now known
Speaker 3: for the Joker going down the stairs.
Speaker 4: It is. It's a great song, fucking banger.
Speaker 3: It's so good. She kisses Troy so going for the kiss,
Speaker 3: and Troy turns his head, kiss on the cheek, not
Speaker 3: on the mouth, on the cheek, and she says this
Speaker 3: is the best day of her life. He says it
Speaker 3: good for him too, because he's gonna be in the
Speaker 3: front page of every news stand in the country. And
Speaker 3: then that night at home and Margin's in bed and
Speaker 3: Hammer walks and he shows he swiped the candy brightening
Speaker 3: room from the from the wedding cake that eats them
Speaker 3: and realize that they are not candy pointy, and Marge
Speaker 3: says she's never seen Selma happier, and Homer reveals that
Speaker 3: it's just a sham though, But enough talk. Let's struggle,
Speaker 3: and she doesn't want too turns off the lights by
Speaker 3: closing your eyes and trying to get to sleep. That's
Speaker 3: they always do the gag in The Simpsons. Does any
Speaker 3: other show do that? Whether you see their eyes at night?
Speaker 3: Not that I'm aware, it makes absolutely no logisical sense
Speaker 3: go with it. Of course he was animated, I guess.
Speaker 3: But we come back from commercial. I'm now at the
Speaker 3: Aphrodity Inn. Welcome mister and missus. Troy McClure as well
Speaker 3: as Share and contest winner.
Speaker 6: This better be important.
Speaker 4: It's my wedding night.
Speaker 6: I'm trying to sleep.
Speaker 7: Hey, sleeper is for Hasban's my friend, and you're about
Speaker 7: to have a very crowded schedule. This marriage scam is
Speaker 7: his panoff big time phone for you.
Speaker 1: Damn try, darling, come to bed.
Speaker 2: I want to see the Troy McClure I remember from
Speaker 2: such films as Makeout, King of Montana and The Electric Jigglow.
Speaker 4: Yeah in a minute, darling.
Speaker 6: Oh, she may be helping my career, but she's starting
Speaker 6: to cramp my style.
Speaker 7: Oh who cares? The offers are rolling in Paramount Wants.
Speaker 7: You're for a buddy comedy with Roblow and Hugh.
Speaker 2: Grant, those sick freaks.
Speaker 4: Okay, then get this.
Speaker 7: I think they want you to play McBain's sidekick in
Speaker 7: em Brace Yourself, the new McBain.
Speaker 4: Movie, McBain's sidekick.
Speaker 5: God, damn, I'm going to see world.
Speaker 3: So Roblo was a thracome with prostitutes, was at all young.
Speaker 4: He was at like a political convention. I think somewhere
Speaker 4: in like I've forgot an exactly whyeah, but I think
Speaker 4: one of the girls was like underage.
Speaker 3: Oh, that's trouble.
Speaker 4: She was like sixteen or seventeen or something.
Speaker 3: Not good, but a movie with Phil Hartman that sort
Speaker 3: of feel I'm with Trump called Roblow and I want
Speaker 3: to see the movie.
Speaker 4: Of course you will. Yes.
Speaker 3: Then Marge and Patty try to break the news too, smer.
Speaker 3: They say he's wrong for her. They're trying to break
Speaker 3: the news without actually telling her that it's an actual sham.
Speaker 3: You've got the case of the Green Eyed Gazongas. And
Speaker 3: then she calls out Patty's job and Marge's being stuck
Speaker 3: with Homer and Marge just like, you know what, fuck it,
Speaker 3: I'm just going to tell you.
Speaker 4: Well, referring to her as a man who'd had to
Speaker 4: bathe to be a slob. Yeah, fantastic, it is.
Speaker 3: Yes, much is shedding up, and he just blurts out
Speaker 3: de Troy doesn't love her, and he's just using her
Speaker 3: to revive his career. And it's almost like at the
Speaker 3: moment he was someone's like realizes, oh that's true, isn't it. Yeah,
Speaker 3: but she has to go confirm it anyway.
Speaker 4: She's suppressed that information.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Sure.
Speaker 3: Troy's then at home reading the newspaper, mccluere ankle's obscurity
Speaker 3: and I love the pools the paper down, is this
Speaker 3: a sham? Marriage's right there? Sure, baby's had a Probably
Speaker 3: ankles means cuts it off at the ankles.
Speaker 4: No, no, it means it means exits. Okay, yeah, apparently it.
Speaker 3: Was a I thought like he cuts his obscurity for
Speaker 3: the ankles, which means he's like, yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the showbiz trade publication variety. I think he had
Speaker 4: its own own lingo for a lot of things. But yeah,
Speaker 4: ankles was one of the terms that they ankles. Okay,
Speaker 4: but it justifies it because they have fun. She's happy,
Speaker 4: she's got money, job, job, has his own big hot
Speaker 4: flat rock, you know, his love and life.
Speaker 3: At the moment. And then she says, but don't you
Speaker 3: love me, and he's like, of course do, Like I
Speaker 3: love Fresco. The difference is, we know our marriage is
Speaker 3: a sham. I love that line. There's plenty of marriages
Speaker 3: are at least we know ours is a sham. And
Speaker 3: then she asks are you gay?
Speaker 4: I wish?
Speaker 3: And then he starts detailing his romantic abnormality which must
Speaker 3: be hidden from public at all costs. And you don't
Speaker 3: want to hear that. No if you're Selma, no, no,
Speaker 3: just keep that to yourself. But she doesn't think she
Speaker 3: can do it. And then he says, smile for the camera.
Speaker 3: You just smile for the camera and enjoyed Troy's wild Ride.
Speaker 3: You go to the right parties, meet the right people.
Speaker 3: Sure you'll be a sham wife, but you be the
Speaker 3: envy of every other person in town. Wife in town.
Speaker 3: And then she says, tell me again about Troy's Wild Rider.
Speaker 3: And she's like, you know what, I can actually probably.
Speaker 4: Do this, and I'm sure there are many people who.
Speaker 3: Have as a compromise because she does want love. Oh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: but that's like, yeah, you know, I'm getting all the
Speaker 3: other good stuff as well. You know what, I feel
Speaker 3: like Troy the kind of guy would be like, you know,
Speaker 3: go find somebody else on the side. It wouldn't care. Yes,
Speaker 3: the best of both worlds. Then they replaced Buster Keaton's
Speaker 3: star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame with Troy's and
Speaker 3: he says, one day someone's going to have one too,
Speaker 3: And then we get another news report on me baying
Speaker 3: for fatal discharge. MacArthur says, now you need a family,
Speaker 3: because you know you're in the running, but you're gonna
Speaker 3: need a family because you and the wife you're gonna
Speaker 3: have a baby, a baby. Ay, what do I do.
Speaker 3: I'll send over a pamphlet. I'll send over a pamplet. Basically,
Speaker 3: it'll be the kind of publicity you can't buy. You
Speaker 3: can't use baby names like Montana, Dakota or Florida has
Speaker 3: already taken and it's just Oregon. Pacific's very hard like
Speaker 3: then ugly once again, and he tells Somemer that he
Speaker 3: wants to have a baby, and you know, I can
Speaker 3: get my own fragrance smelling of Troy, and he says
Speaker 3: her last, this could be her last. Oh. She says,
Speaker 3: this could be my last chance to be a mummy.
Speaker 3: It's almost like she's compromised. She's like, Ah, I don't know.
Speaker 3: I want to have a baby, but do want to
Speaker 3: have it with this guy here? And then the waiters
Speaker 3: now offering her a cigarette, and he said, this is
Speaker 3: the line we'll discuss with Josh that someone wanted to
Speaker 3: cut out from now on. She's smoking for two which
Speaker 3: is brutal but funny. Someone and Troy then do their
Speaker 3: best to get into the mood and it's just not happening.
Speaker 3: Would you like some wine? Yes, and to come over here?
Speaker 3: But you come over here, make yourself comfortable, and it's
Speaker 3: just not going to happen here. She says, you having
Speaker 3: a baby shouldn't be work. It's supposed to be expression
Speaker 3: of the love that we have for each other. And
Speaker 3: she just says, no, what, I just can't bring a
Speaker 3: child into a loveless marriage. And I think that's the
Speaker 3: Simpsons in a nutshell. What differs it from other shows
Speaker 3: where this character here feels like a real person.
Speaker 5: Oh?
Speaker 3: Absolutely, there is so much depth to sell. We here
Speaker 3: where you go? And she's like, I can do the marriage,
Speaker 3: but I can't bring a child here. It's just not
Speaker 3: going to happen. And Troy says, look, we'll just adopt.
Speaker 3: I'll call my agent, he'll find some child who's in
Speaker 3: on the deal. But she just says goodbye. I think
Speaker 3: she maye kissed them on the chee. I'm not too sure. Sure.
Speaker 3: Always remember him, but not from his films, which is
Speaker 3: a great partying line.
Speaker 4: This is such a well written episode.
Speaker 3: Just the ending that absolutely sticked this landing. Yeah, and
Speaker 3: he sadly watches her walk away with job as I
Speaker 3: was saying with Josh and yourself that he's not only
Speaker 3: watching her walk away, he's watching his career walk away
Speaker 3: with it. Because without that baby, without that, that's true, he's.
Speaker 4: Built a little bit of momentum. Though, I mean, you
Speaker 4: get this not really a happy ending, but I mean
Speaker 4: chronic clau is not going anywhere. Well, that sadly is,
Speaker 4: but yeah, he's riding a little bit of a crest
Speaker 4: of the wave, and you know he may not be
Speaker 4: and it well decides not to be in McBain for
Speaker 4: fatal discharge. Instead, he does his own passion project.
Speaker 3: Makes a bad philt. MacArthur Parker did not want this
Speaker 3: decision to happen. The contrabulous fab traption of Professor Horatio
Speaker 3: Fuffnagel pull this gable payoff. Twentieth Centry Fox says it.
Speaker 4: Will loved it. I've got nothing more is I own
Speaker 4: love it?
Speaker 3: Yes, And that is the end of a fish Caught Summer.
Speaker 3: Just an absolutely just It's just I think it's one
Speaker 3: of my favorite episodes now. I think being a kid,
Speaker 3: I never really liked this one. I think being a
Speaker 3: bit older, a few miles in the meter, being married,
Speaker 3: you know, experiencing your actual genuine love and I just think,
Speaker 3: I don't know, maybe it's just the u the fact
Speaker 3: that I love it, that we've got it before Phil
Speaker 3: Hammont passed away as well, that that part of as well.
Speaker 3: But there's just so many gags in this.
Speaker 4: There's a lots and I'm only so much like about it.
Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, it's just got, as you said, one
Speaker 4: of the great set pieces and stop the plan of
Speaker 4: the apes I want to get off.
Speaker 3: It's yeah, which is just like out of nowhere.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a fantastic showcase for Phil Hartman and his
Speaker 4: talents and his skill set. It's funny from go to woe.
Speaker 4: It's really really tightly constructed, and yeah, it's it's emotionally
Speaker 4: mature and not in a way that feels kind of
Speaker 4: oh now it's slathering on the sentiment. No, just it
Speaker 4: does it almost stealthily.
Speaker 3: Yes, We'll hope you guys enjoyed our review of a
Speaker 3: Fish Court Someone. Hope you enjoyed our chat with Josh
Speaker 3: Weinstein as well. We're going to be getting back on
Speaker 3: the show next year. Hopefully maybe we can do Bartvia's
Speaker 3: Australia with Bill locally. I think having them both at
Speaker 3: the same time and just be like seeing them just
Speaker 3: banter with ideas and stories would be great.
Speaker 4: We wouldn't have to talk much at all. Let's just
Speaker 4: hope that they start their own since this podcast because
Speaker 4: they were in trouble.
Speaker 3: Oh man, oh me, don't do it. Don't do it.
Speaker 3: But what you should be doing, guys out there listening
Speaker 3: is supporting us on Patreon. If you enjoyed the show,
Speaker 3: you can support us for as little as just one
Speaker 3: dollar per month. That's right, just one dollar per month.
Speaker 3: You can suppor us on Patreon. The link is in
Speaker 3: a description of this show, and for five dollars or more,
Speaker 3: you can get access to over one hundred hours of
Speaker 3: bonus podcasts, all the various shows we do exclusively on
Speaker 3: our Patreon channel, as well as early and ad free
Speaker 3: access to this show going down to South Park and
Speaker 3: one of our friends. But you also get access to
Speaker 3: our entire archive from the first ten seasons as well
Speaker 3: ad free, so if you don't want to hear any
Speaker 3: more of those ads, five dollars a month is all
Speaker 3: it cost you.
Speaker 4: Kind of a bargain, kind of a bargain in ded
Speaker 4: make it a Christmas present to Guyandanda, Oh, excellent idea,
Speaker 4: excellent idea in d But this has been a review
Speaker 4: of a fish course someone. We'll back next week with
Speaker 4: a season twenty one review. But and you find the
Speaker 4: words for those incredible listeners out there, you've been listening
Speaker 4: to Guyandano. You may remember us from podcasts such as
Speaker 4: Forfinger Discount