Speaker 1: There was nothing luke warm about this wonderful person. When
he was on the dark side. He was all the
way on the dark side. The moment he realized that
God existed, that he was offering him salvation, he completely
abandoned the previous life. And that doesn't mean he didn't struggle.
He struggled for many, many years. He all of a
sudden developed this kind of a rebellion and hatred for
the evil one who who He was really aware of
the fact that he controlled his life, so he wanted
to completely break free from him. And this is what
really got to me. One day, he was just in
the desert talking to his disciples, and he stood up
and he told everybody to run and hide because the robbers,
the murderers were coming and they were going to kill everybody.
So his disciples, knowing how holy Saint Moses the Black
was and and prophetic, they knew they didn't They knew
that whatever he was saying it was going to come true.
But they didn't understand this kind of casual announcement. And
they asked him, well, what about you, And he said, oh,
for me, says I prayed for this moment. I've been
waiting for this moment all my life.
Speaker 2: This is Jonathan Pejo. Welcome to the symbolic world. Hello everyone,
I'm here with Yolena Popovic and most of you will
have seen a Man of God that came out in
twenty twenty one. I think it was a beautiful film
about St. Niktarios and most recently and soon to come out,
I think it's coming out at the beginning of next
year is Moses the Black and so I was so
surprised I saw this most recent project. So I cannot
wait to talk to Yolenna about what, like, how did
this project come together? And so thanks for talking to me.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me. And uh and
I'm just gonna say the film is coming out this
year in right.
Speaker 2: Where we are in the new year. We already juh goodness, Yeah,
you taught me at the end of the holidays, is
what's happening?
Speaker 1: Well, you know it's since I can't even believe it myself,
so I also get confused with dates.
Speaker 2: And so this is I mean, I think this is
your second movie that is kind of diving into more
orthodox imagery. Uh. You know, Man of God was I
think quite successful. It came out during Covid. I saw it.
I remember seeing it in Montreal and the reaction of
almost everyone I talked to was quite positive about about
the movie. But this, this new movie is so different,
and so I really would like to hear the story
about how did it you came to this project?
Speaker 1: Yeah, you did watch it right? Okay, again, I'm glad,
thank you for doing that.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 1: Like with with Men of God, I was also asked
many times the question of why you know why Saint Nactarius,
you know, especially I'm originally from Serbia, and I would
get the questions like how come you didn't pick a
Serbian saint? And I say, well, saints, they don't have nationalities.
First of all, it's like we are all. There is
no you know, the all equal in the eyes of God.
So and that's the beauty of our of our faith.
But I the same with Saint Nactarius. I had a
very very I was very moved when I read about
Saint Moses the Black and this happened actually before I
was shooting a Man of God. I don't remember exact year,
but I think somewhere around twenty eighteen or nine teen,
that's where I knew about him. But that's when I
read again the story in more detail, and I was
I had the same feeling maybe as an artist, that
that's what we do. We kind of maybe get inspired
by certain things. That's usually some things that are within us.
I'm not saying that I have holy things inside of me.
I'm talking about as an artist, some kind of experiences
that speak to us on a more personal level than
some other ones. And and what I can think about.
In this particular case, what really moved me was the
way Saint Moses died. I was that's when when I
got the goosebumps and felt like I wanted to tell
his story. And when I read that, it's been people
that maybe are not familiar that much with the story.
He was a very violent gang leader in the fourth
century in Egypt, and we don't have ex I mean,
we have enough information to know about him. He's a
very well respected desert father. He was the spiritual son
of Saint Macarius of Egypt, who was the spiritual son
of Saint Anthony the Great. So this is the level
of spirituality we're talking about. And therefore he's also quoted
today in Philocalia in many places, together with Saint Macarius
of Egypt. So in that sense is a saint that
it's very well known and respected in Orthodox tradition. But
what was interested, what interests me about him was this life.
That it was extremely violent person who was feared for
the violence and brutality that he displayed. And at one
point it seems that as if he killed a government
official and therefore there was a bounty on his head,
they were just simply going to kill him and he
had to run and hide, and his unworldly wisdom at
the time, he decided to hide next to the monastery
where Saint Abba Isidor was an abbot at the time,
because thinking who's going to be looking for him there?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: And it was precisely at that moment that God had
spoken to his heart and he had a sudden change
of heart where he addressed the brotherhood and he was
very honest. He told them who he was. He told
them that he was being chased, and he asked them
to receive him in the brotherhood, not to hide him
from the imminent death, but to save his soul. And
what's incredible about him, what really moved me, is that
he there was nothing luke warm about this wonderful person
when he was on the dark side. He was all
the way on the dark side. The moment he realized
that God existed, that he was offering him salvation, he
completely abandoned the previous life. And and that doesn't mean
he didn't struggle. He struggled for many, many years under
the Saint Abba Isidor, and many times he thought of
living in a sense he thought that it was too
much for him because he he all of a sudden
developed this this kind of a rebellion and hatred for
for the for for for the evil one who who
he was really aware of the fact that he held him, Uh,
he controlled his life. So he wanted to completely break
free from him. And where even aby Isidor at one
point said why are you stop fighting demons so much?
As focused on the Lord and Christ. But he he
wanted to go one step further. He just he was
like a little bit like Saint Antony the Great, even
though Saint Antony didn't have that kind of past. On
the contrary, but he he wanted to conquer with God's help,
the devil here on earth. I mean, this is this
is this is what would really inspire me about him.
And he just there was some amazing things that happened
in his life that at one point, when he overcame
all the obstacles, the evil one actually physically assaulted him.
And after that, because he was incredibly physically strong, he
lost his physical strength. But then he grew even further
more in his spiritual strength and became a priest and
became a spiritual father of the same monastery. Now, when
he was seventy four years old, he was the year
four hundred and five of AD, he had seventy disciples monks,
and which somehow somewhere it was written that he used
to have seventy gang members when he was living a
different life many many years before. And this is what
really got to me, is one day he was just
in the desert talking to his disciples, and he stood
up and he told everybody to run and hide because
the robbers, the murderers were coming and they were going
to kill everybody. So his disciples, knowing how holy Saint
Moses the Black was and prophetic, they knew they they
knew that whatever he was saying, it was going to
come true. But they didn't understand this kind of casual
announcement and They asked him, well, what about you, and
he said, oh, for me, He says, I prayed for
this moment. I've been waiting for this moment all my
life because I want to glorify my Lord and my savior,
Jesus Christ, and I want to die glorify in his
words that who takes the sword must die by the sword,
and that's between me and God. But you don't have
to go through this. This is not something that you
have to do, so please leave. So everybody left, apart
from seven brave monks who decided to stay with him,
of them in the last minute, probably by the providence
of God, so we would have it all, we would
know that moment. He couldn't do it. He hid somewhere
in the in the in the cave, and but he witnessed.
I mean Samet moss As the Black and the six
other martyrs were martyred that day, and the monk who
couldn't go through with it, he came out and he witnessed,
Actually he saw our Lord giving the crowns of glory
to each one of their souls. I was just I
was just blown away by by this bravery, by by
this freedom, that this incredible man who nobody would have thought, like,
like if you knew him when he was in his
twenties and thirties doing so many terrible things, who would
have known that this man possesses such incredible beauty in
his heart and that he was able to give his
heart to God and become very brave and he was
willing to become martyr for Christ. And to me, that
was just fascinating. And that's when I I had this
same feeling, like with the Saint Nctarius, I had a
feeling that the story of Redemption could potentially help a
lot of people today, nowadays or at any time, first
starting for myself and then going with everybody else, and
that's how I start writing the treatment and then twenty eighteen.
Speaker 2: Okay, you've been working on this for quite quite a while. Yeah.
It's funny because for the in the past five years,
I've actually met several people that are trying to do
a Moses the Black movie because I think there's an
intuition you had it probably before everyone else, about how
relevant this story is and how powerful he is as
a figure, and so you crossed the finish line before
everyone else. Congratulations on that for sure.
Speaker 1: No I can say, think to Saint Moses.
Speaker 2: I I've done this. I believe.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that the other people didn't have the
same inspiration from the right source, but for whatever reason,
he helped me to cross the finish line.
Speaker 3: Greeting's friends, cosmographers, fellow symbolists, this is Joshua from Eighth
Day Books, inviting you to join me and studying a
remarkable cosmic coincidence. Why is it that writers, philosophers, and
prophets from many times in places have all told us
that contemplating the night sky makes our own souls similarly
more beautiful and more ordered. Hebrew and Hindu, Greek and Chinese.
They've all told us that looking up is the same
as looking in, and that we are as much citizens
of the sky as we are of earth. In February,
we will be looking at Pythagorea and folk tales, biblical wisdom, literature,
and contemporary novelists to ask these questions. It'll be a
challenging course, but not technical. I teach medieval philosophy and
Renaissance literature, and I'm condensing a year's worth of information
into a few wonder filled hours. Please join me for
some Plato, some poetry, and some practical skygazing, all to
help us pursue the art of imitating Heaven see you
very soon.
Speaker 2: So this is the thing though, So the movie is
not a movie of the story of sam Oh, it's
the black Now. This is what people have to understand,
is that this is a gangster movie. It's like, basically
like a Black American gangster movie. There you know two
you know, pretty famous rappers play characters in it with Khalifah.
What is the name of the other queto? Yeah, who
plays the kind of the bad guy or the evil Uh.
I mean they're all kind of bad. He's kind of
bad in the movie. He plays the rival. He plays
the rival. Let's let's say it that way.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: And so, so the main narrative happens in in the
modern world. It's like it's in Chicago. It's a modern
gang story. My biggest surprise was that Father Turbo Qualls
was in it, which he never told me. Like I
have great affection for Father Turbau. He never told me
he's in this movie, and he was in the trailer.
I saw the trailer on Instagram and like, what Father
Turbo is the priest in this, in this film, so
so so so, now you have to explain why, like
how did you come to this? Because obviously same old
is the story is one thing, but making this into
like a kind of modern gangster movie is a whole
other story. It has to be.
Speaker 1: Definitely, and I will and there is that's a great question,
and and this is how I will definitely be happy
to to explain how I came to that conclusion. When
I start writing a treatment around twenty eighteen. Even though
I was very fired up and inspired so to say
I would write a treatment, I'd write twenty thirty pages.
But you know, first of all, I am a writer
and director, and I've said this a couple of times.
I approach these things even though I'm an Orthodox Christian.
Faith is very important part of my life. I mean,
the most important part. I wouldn't even be alive if
it wasn't for my faith. But that's my relationship with God,
my personal thing. But I approached this project as a craftsman.
You know, I've learned my craft in a really good school.
It's called Playhouse West. And especially if I'm going to
tackle a subject like this, and as you know very
well yourself you know, to make films about saints or
anything that it's spiritual in modern world, it's it's gonna
be looked under a magnifying magnifying glass. So so if
we don't make a film that it's very good film,
you know, right off the bat, you're gonna you're gonna
get to think, oh, it's another film about faith, and
it's and it's not good. And unfortunately this is this
is what people think about films about faith. Some of
them are deserving of that, uh comments, some of them
are not. But but that's usually what's going on out
there because of the society we live in. So for me,
even with Men of God, the first thing was like,
I really want to make a great movie. I don't want.
I mean, they might not like the subject, they might
not like the story I'm telling, but no one's gonna
be able to say, oh, it's a terrible movie.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: So this is this is the first responsibility that I
feel as as a craftsman, as a director and writer.
That's where I start from. So so on that note,
when I was writing the treatment, uh, you know, there's
so many events in his life, they're wonderful, but to
tell a story to there's one thing of writing a
documentary or filming a documentary, bok, writing a future film,
you really have to pick a premise that what is
this really about? Like even with Men of God, I
had to ask myself, what am I Okay, I can
make ten movies about Santactarius, but what kind of film
I'm telling about him? So it was mostly to me
the premise of Sanatarius was about the fact that the
unhealthy desire for power and riches ruin one soul, which
is not a secret, but that was somehow the if
you look at every scene, that premise is in every scene,
and in that way, I feel that that way his
faith is incredible. Faith and love for God really came
to the surface in the movie and it was able
to be shared with the world, and that this is
how I saw it with Men of God. With this one,
I was asking then I to asked first first time
starting so I'm putting down everything I'm looking so to
me looked like it was a little bit all over
the place. It didn't have it wasn't specific, It wasn't
clear what kind of film I was making. And as
a writer, and I know this and if I go
in that direction. What's gonna happen. No one's gonna care.
Even though I might think I'm making a film about
Moses the Black, say most of the black, and his
story is amazing. Well, other people don't know about him.
So it's my job to make a story that people
can relate to, A story where say Moses can then
do the work, you know, a story that's going to
inspire people. Well, the story that I was writing in
the fourth century. To be honest, even though I was
doing a lot of rewrites, it didn't look to me
like a feature film that I feel that I could
honestly look investors in the eyes and say to them,
you know, I think I have a good film here
that can move people and change people's lives. So I
kind of put it on the side, you know, even
though I was very inspired, and then I was puzzled
by this whole thing for a while. Then I thought
maybe my creative juices were not flowing properly because I'm
about to film the movie, so maybe that's what's going on.
And it was after I finished Man of God there
were a couple of things that happened that inspired me.
One was when they the monks from a holy monastery
of Auto Peti, because the Pedi really was one of
the main producers in the film A Man of God,
and they helped for the film to come to tuition,
you know, on the fram But a couple of the
monks that I'm friendly with, they asked me, what is
are you thinking about any other project? And I said, well,
to be honest, I would like to make a film
about saying Moses the Black. But I don't know why.
I'm a little bit stuck in the process. So they
asked me, he says, do you want to meet with
the father Theotemus? I said, whose father? Theotomois. There is
a priest in Athens. He's from Congo and he's a
Greek Orthodox priest. His sister, she's a nun.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think her name is Tecla. She's so same as
as a black. He appeared to her and she painted
his icon, and I said, of course, I would like
to meet his father, the Optimus. Let's arrange the meeting
right away. So what happened They reached out to him
because you know, they probably I'm a filmmaker. You know,
sometimes it's especially in the world in the church. My
job is, like you know, I'm just a filmmaker. I
hopefully with my work can inspire people to seek the
truth and to come. So sometimes it's easier if somebody
like that would call the Father instead of me going there.
So they called him and he was very happy to
meet with me. And when I met with him, he
told me the story about his sister. Told me how
this whole family became Orthodox, how he came to Greece
and his sister at the time was deciding whether she
was going to become a nun or not. And she
was on the island of Columnos, and she was in
this female monastery and the abbess, because she had a
great skill of painting, the abbess and being from Congo,
so abbess asked her, well, why don't you paint the
icon of Samos is the black so and this is
how fathers Theotimus tells me about his sister. He says,
you know, my sister, she's got a little bit of
a temper. So she went back to her room and
she was like talking to herself and she said, well,
just because I'm black, like what I'm supposed to tell
all pay like one of Saint Moses the Black like, like,
what do I know why these lived in the fourth century?
I'm joking, And that was a reaction, but in her
own like moment of like rebellion, right, she she kind
of looked up and she said, Saint Moses, you know what,
I'm not going to paint your icon unless you show
me what you look like. So of course she didn't
think much of it. Where I don't know how many
I don't remember. I wasn't told whether it was weeks
or months or days when did that happen. But if
you're in Greece, if it's not summer, I mean, these
islands like ghost towns, and this was not during the summer.
So she was there doing her chores and one day
a monk, old, elderly black monk in the black long
rope comes in, walks straight up to her and starts
speaking in Swahili, in her own language. So she is
starting to converse with him, like not thinking much about it,
and again father tells me, you know, my sister's got
a temper. So after a while she felt a little
you know, she felt like, I don't know what he
was asking her, what kind of conversation is going on,
but she was compelled to look at him and say,
excuse me, who are you? What do you want from me?
Because she's being a female novice at the monastery. And
he told her, He says, well, what do you mean,
what do I want from you? Didn't you ask me
to come and show you what I look like before?
You wanted to paint my icon? So for I don't
know how many seconds, he was still in front of her,
and after that he disappeared and she went and she painted,
and I would live the icon in the movie, his icon. No,
it's not the icon in the movie, but it's it's
this icon.
Speaker 2: I will show it to the vide Yeah.
Speaker 1: And he gives me, can you imagine other Theotimos pulls
out this is the copy of the icon and he
hands it to me. Believe me, now, think about this.
I'm from right live in Los Angeles for eighteen years.
I'm from Serbia. I'm talking to Father Theotemus from Congo,
and I'm receiving this icon. I knew at that moment
something told me, Okay, I guess it's going to be
another battle, another battle, because a man of God was
the battle. But I asked, say Moses, if you really
want me to do this, You're really going to have
to help me, because I'm stuck. I don't know what's
happening here. So at this point I get invited to
another monastery in yeah, monastery dedicated to Saint David of Evia,
and Saint Jakovos Silikis is buried in the monastery as well,
and yet Onda Gavriel is the yet On the abbot
of the monastery, a wonderful, wonderful abbot. So he invited
me because you know Man of God that but this
was to there was now a couple of years later,
Man of God came out and and it was huge
success in Greece. So I was invited, which I get
a lot of these kind of requests. Yanoda wanted to
meet with me, even though I was many times in
the monastery. I love the monastery, but this time I
was staying overnight. So he was trying to ask me
if I could write a script about Saint Jakovos Silicis
because there were some investors that wanted to do something,
and I was very honest. I told him yonda, I
would love to do anything. I love saints, I love
all of them. But all I can say I can
read about him again, and I'm going to have to
feel if if if I connect to the story. Of
course I'm connected to the story. I'm connected to story
every saint. But meaning to write a film because not
every story I can you know, I mean everybody is
connected to something. Again, I'm talking about as an artist, like,
is this something that I can deliver? It doesn't mean
somebody else cannot deliver. But I was being honest to him.
I said, I don't know if I can deliver this.
I will read it, but I will if I don't
deliver it, then I'm gonna find somebody who can do it.
And he was no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2: I want you to.
Speaker 1: So so it takes me downstairs. Now, this is before
we have to go to sleep, and it's dark and
it's pretty cold, and he says, no, you're gonna sit
here in front of in front of the tomb of
Iosiakovos and and just pray to him. And he gave
me the blanket to cover myself. So I was, oh,
this is of course, I'm gonna be obedient and I'm grateful.
If anything, it's amazing to sit there in peace and
to pray to God, to saints. I mean, how much
better you can get? But in my own mind, I
in a way, if I can say this, I told
you Santiago, I'm sorry. I mean, I don't know what
am I exactly supposed to pray for. But it was
particularly at that moment while I was thinking about different
things and praying that I saw vividly. I saw Chicago
because naturally, Saint Moses is in my mind because that's
what I want to do. I saw Chicago, I saw
the funeral, I saw the shootout. I've seen parts of
the film, and I was like, and this, I really
credit this to Jeronda, who who's very holy, because even
though he was being cheeky and telling me to sit
there and pray, but it really led to for me
to resolve my to get this proper guidance on how
I should do the film about Saint Moses. And this
is what happened that day. And after that I realized
something else. I said, Wow, this now is a film
that can be told. This is where I believe that
if I can do this properly, Saint Moses can then
be introduced into this new world, into a different world
and inspire a lot of people. But in order to
do that then I had to do a lot of
research and I had to go and meet with the
people from inner city of Chicago, from West side of
Chicago in particular. The film is about and was. I
feel blessed to that. I was blessed to have met
a gentleman called Reginald A. Kim Berry who was incarcerated
for seventeen years. He was one of the chiefs on
one of the big gangs many many years ago in Chicago.
He was in prison for many years. He was in
solitary confinement for nine years and in humane environment. And
he's been out now for seventeen years helping people not
to all into destructive life style. So this is who
I met through one of our investors, Greek American investor.
His name is Alex Piicios. He's one of my main investors,
and he introduced me. He's good friends with Reggie with
a kim And And when I met Reggie, I presented
Saint Moses. I showed him, you know, usually I would
I would carry this this little booklet that we get
at the Fellowship of Saint Moses the Black and I
told him the story of Saint Moses, and I told
him that I already had about sixty pages written down.
The name of the character was called the Man, the
girl was called the girl. But I already had some
dialogue the grandmother. I already had things down. But I
told him, I need somebody to help me to tell
an honest story about your about the gangster, because if
the story of the Gangster is not honest, then the
story of Saint Moses is not going to be able
to penetrate in the same way. Because the truth is
what I believe that speaks volumes, and it's if we
are truthful I believe, then hopefully God can bless our
efforts and what we do. So this is what happened,
and thanks to I call them my brothers and sisters
from the West Side of Chicago that I've met many
times with. They've also at the end of the whole script,
they've also made sure that my dialogue was in the slang.
I don't use all the words that you've heard that
this is their slang. They just converted it into their slang.
I respectfully ask them if they can keep certain words
to a minimum, but not to lose the truthfulness of
the thing. But we don't want And what's interesting they
said to me, you know, thank you. I mean, we
like the fact that you asked us to do that,
because when we see ourselves, supposedly ourselves in the movies,
we don't really talk like that, like, yes, maybe we
say bad words here and there, but it's not as
excessive as they portray us. So so interestingly enough that
that that came out when when when you're working together.
So thanks to them, and obviously number one, thanks the
same old as the Black I was able to put
a really good script together that inspired them with Khalifa
fifty cent and other omar Apps and other people, because
they realized that this is a story of redemption, story
that it's very necessary to be told nowadays, story that
can resonate with many people, many different levels, and it
can be helpful to the society. And this is why
these people became part of the moth.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have to say that the slang element was
very marked for me because you know, I'm a French Canadian.
You know, English is my second language. And although I
you know, I have lived in the US quite a bit,
there there were moments where I had to like go
on the Urban Dictionary to know like what they were saying,
because there were some words were being repeated. I was like,
what is that? What is they? What are they referring to?
And so I have to confess my my very kind
of Canadian background. But it did. It did for that reason,
Like you said, it felt like this was I when
I saw that you had written it, I was surprised
because I I when I was watching, I was like,
for sure, this is written by someone from that culture
because because of the slang was so so much part
of the of the of the storytelling. And so yeah,
so I think in that case, you you definitely did
a surprising, a surprising work.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: And so I'm curious. I mean, I'm kind of curious
to know because obviously the movie's not out yet, you've
probably had people watch it. Because the one big question
I had when I was watching it was Man of God.
It is clear who that movie's for, Like as as
an orthodox Christian I come see it, I think it's
it's it is for everyone. This movie. It was like,
this is the weird movie in the sense that I've
never seen something like this. I don't if there's another
movie like it. I was trying to recall and I
don't think I have I have a version of it,
and so.
Speaker 1: Well, pulp fiction, even though this has nothing to do
with this. When it came out, you haven't seen it.
Speaker 2: You said, I've never seen something like this, because it
is a it is a gang like. It's clearly a
gang movie, you know it, And and I could see
it has precedents, like there are precedents for these kinds
of kind of of gang movies. But because of the
the interspersing of the story of Saint Moses, you know,
and kind of the way that the redemption story happens.
Because I don't want to spoil anything in the movie,
but this is not the type of redemption story that
people are used to seeing in a Hollywood setting.
Speaker 1: But I would call it like.
Speaker 2: Flowery redemption, Yes, flowery redemption. Yes it's not it's not
a there isn't this sense of you know, breaking free
and then you know, going on and it's like, no,
it's a much harser it's a much harsher redemption. And
so yeah, I'm just curious to hear like some of
the reactions from different people that have been watching it,
like even from the like people like fifty cent Whiskily
for the people that are in the movie, like what
is their take on what is their take on this story?
Speaker 1: Well, to me, the most important thing, and this is
going to be connected with my answer, is that people
that live that life, or they lived or they still
live this life, can see themselves in it and that
it will inspire them to change. This was the number
one thing that I wanted to achieve with this film.
So everybody else that they can still find something in it.
And it's it's an exciting movie to watch, but it's
really the cases people that don't believe that they can
be forgiven for things they have done. And I'm gonna
and I'm gonna give you any one example. When I
was talking to Father Paul Abernati from Pittsburgh. He he
is the pastor in the Orthodox Church of Saint Moses
the Black and they have an excellent h it's a
neighborhood resilience program. They do a lot of work to
uh to get people off the streets and get them
away from the life of crime. There was one gentleman there.
This was before I spoke to my executive producer, now
Reginald Kimberry in Chicago, there was one gentleman there that
was in the gangs, and many of them were, but
now they're no longer. And what they do in Pittsburgh
in a neighborhood resilience program, they do a really dangerous work.
They go on the street and they do these interventions
with gangs, with young gangsters. And this is something because
the young gangsters will not respond to anybody other than
a former gangster. They're not gonna You're not going to
be able to convince and to pro young gangster unless
you had a past as a gangster. So that's why
usually people that have had that kind of past are
the best people to speak to these young guys and
men and women and to convince them, hopefully to give
up that lifestyle and to to to make them understand
that that they have the soul that's really valuable and
that dying at nineteen twenty twenty one going the way
that they're usually going, it's it's it's not the way
to go. So one of these gentlemen, his name is Antoine.
I don't know if I should, but but he he's
what father Paul told me. And then we had the
same discussion. This is within the same question that you've
asked me. He asked me. It's interesting when I when
you're talking to me about the redemption that you want
to place in this film that kind of matches the
redemption of Saint Moses the Black. It's interesting when I
spoke to my friend and I asked him, sometimes, why
do you, I know, notice every like three times a
week that would go and they would go end up
in the very they would throw themselves in very dangerous situations.
But particularly this gentleman, he would go out of his
way to like fearlessly go and and get in the
middle of even a gunfight, to to to like prevent
it and to uh stop the gun violence. And and
and father told me. I pulled him aside, and I said,
I don't one, why do you do this? And he said,
in a very humble way, he said, Father, because saying
sorry sometimes is not just enough.
Speaker 2: It's not enough.
Speaker 1: So this is where uh, people that that that that
have lived that kind of life will live that kind
of life will really the story will resonate because redemption
here is is very deep. It's it's and and many
times I've spoken to a lot of pastors that that
that they've heard a lot of confessions from from the
young gangsters or people that change their lives. Is the
hardest thing for them to believe is that they can
be forgiven. That They just have a very hard time
with with with with the fact that they actually can
be forgiven for what they have done. So this is
why I have chosen to make the film like this,
because I'm trying to reach them. I'm trying to reach
these souls there. So many of them are wonderful, just
like say Moses the Black was, but they don't know
any better. And and and this is why I made
a movie like this. So I don't know. Hopefully this
answers the question.
Speaker 2: No, I think no, I think it. I think it.
It does. But it is I mean, it is surprising.
It is surprising in the sense that I mean it's
the I think it's also because of the people involved.
Because of the people involved, some of these people they
are gangster personas, like they have gangster personas. I don't
know about their real life or whatever, but they inhabit
that kind of persona. And so because the movie is
about the redemption or the possible redemption, that's why in
some ways, even that makes me curious. You know, it's
like it's an anti gangster gangster movie, you know, if
you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, well we forget sometimes we like I'm privileged
to live a life at least right now, I'm healthy.
I don't live within the reach of gun violence. I
can go to church anytime I like, I have somewhat
of a peaceful hopefully progress. And it's never peaceful. You know,
you get a lot of opposition from inside and out
all the time when you're when you're on the spiritual path.
But you know, now I lost my train of I
was trying to say something forgive me, but but yeah,
it's uh, yeah, this is what I wanted to say.
But we forget something. Our Lord Jesus Christ, he sat
many times and eight with harlets and sinners, and he's
still sitting and eating with harlets and sinners. So let's
not forget about that, you know. So sometimes we and
that's what I'm at least trying for myself, not to becoming.
And this is something that Father Moses Barry told me
when I went to get a blessing from him to
make the film. Really know that I met with him.
I met with him. I went with the father Justin
Matthews to South Missouri. And it was for Father Paul
Abernetti that that that initiated all that, and he gave
me his blessing. But one thing he told me, and
I remember, he said, you see the icon of Saint Moses,
the black icon of same mayor of Egypt. You know,
to mention, as you know, in Orthodoxy, we dedicated the
whole week fifteen weeks of the Great Lent is dedicated
to Saint Mary of Egypt. This incredible story of repentance.
But it is a a lot of people, uh Like
for example, they they don't realize they come and venerate
the icon of same area of Egypt, same Moses, the
black but they just think about them after the fact,
after like like they obviously, when we venerate the icons,
we venerate the holy Spirit that glorified them, that that
sanctified them. But what we do, we don't We don't worship.
That's what people don't understand orthodox If we only worship God,
we just venerate and respect the saints. But it's like
what father Moses, who also himself was is from South
side of Chicago and was in prison at one point
in his life, and then he came and he was freed,
and and and then he and and he had was
in his own journey to find God and became Orthodox priests.
He said to me, just please remember this. I am.
A lot of people come to me today and they
and they they're very happy with with how I am
and and and they love what I do. But I am.
I am not just what I am today. What I
am is what I was before and what I am today.
The same thing goes through Saint Moses the Black. What's
incredible about him is that he had this incredible repentance
and without his life. That doesn't mean that we have
to live a life of a gangster to have repentance
so we can be saved. No, that's not what I'm
trying to say. But he said, these people, their life
has to be looked at as a whole to be
fully understood and and and fully venerated. You know, so
so and then he said, so so people that come
to church and venerate Saint Moses the Black and same
area regit. But they see a gangster or or a
harlot and judge them. They should not really be doing
that they're missing the point. So this is this is
I know it's a little bit of hardcore what I'm saying,
but but it is the truth, you know. So so
so that comes to what Saint Moses himself. One of
the most amazing he said many things that are recorded
and written down, but one of the main things, beautiful
things that he said. He said that one who sees
his own sin doesn't see sin in another. So that's
how that's how we know how high spiritually we progress
in our life once we that doesn't mean that we
won't be bothered by certain things by certain people. It's normal.
But if we judge others, judging is something else. That
means that we are not really seeing ourselves properly. And
that's just a check for us to kind of pay
attention to what's going on inside of ourselves.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and there is you know, in the stories
in Moses, there's some interesting little tidbits where he kind
of how can I say that, there are moments where
he's able to turn his gangster persona, you know, to
the service of the other monks of this whole accidental
stopping of the robbers, where he didn't really do anything
we don't know exactly what he did, but he was
able to stop a band of robbers from yeah exactly here.
Course he kind of sugges, yes, that he really didn't,
you know, you just they just tripped it, you know,
like I didn't really do anything.
Speaker 1: But you know, he overpowered them, and and and he
was he brought him in front of the abb would
drop them and he said, I'm I'm like lower lowest
of the low. I'm I'm charge nobody, you decide their faith.
Speaker 2: So yes, he and there's still I hear this from
This is from a Coptic priest, so he can take
the responsibility for his story. But he tells me that
the relics of Saint Moses are are in Egypt, you
know they they're visited by Christians and Muslims. People wait
in line to come and visit the relics. Uh. And
they're a monk who sits next to the relic that
the sarcophagus is huge, that he's he was a giant.
You know, who knows how big he was a giant.
And he sits in front of the relics and he
whispers to Saint Moses when people come and bring their petitions,
and he tells me that the that the the whole
tomb starts to shake, uh, and people get healed, you know,
by saying, oh, so there's still a little bit of
gangster agster way. Well, this huge argo just starts shaking
when people come and ask for his uh you know,
asked to be healed from there from their illness.
Speaker 1: He's a great saint, a great a great saint. And
speaking of Father Turbo, you know now we you asked
me what happened to Father Turbo. I met Father and
I had this idea. As a matter of fact, it
was a friend of mine. His name is Paris. Paris.
He did a videography in uh At. On the set,
he did quite a few interviews. He he gave me
that idea, and I'm like, well, I know Father Turbo
quite well. So I took him up on it and
I and I called Father Turbo and uh, I was
shy about it. I said, Father, I have a maybe, Uh,
forgive me if my question is a little bit unorthodox,
if if it's completely inappropriate, just please give me and
ignore it. Don't even forget about the fact that I've
asked you. But I need to ask you would you
be interested to play an Orthodox priest in a movie?
I mean, you will be playing there's nothing in your role,
which as you could see, I mean you were just
playing the priest. And I would and he said, yeah, sure,
I would. Let me read the script first. I'm like, really,
he said no, yeah, of course, I have to get
a blessing from from our my bishop. He's Serbian. I'm Serbian,
so so he's you know, how we are. You know,
I'm sure he's okay with it. I'm like great, and
he said, but send me the script. So I sent
him the script and he was in London at the time,
so I was waiting patiently. So I remember he texted
me he said, good stuff.
Speaker 2: I want to do it.
Speaker 1: So I'm like, okay, let me just at least speak
to him. So when he was back, I said, father,
so you really want to do this? Is absolutely he said,
the script is real, and because it's real, I want
to do it. Otherwise no one's going to care. And
this was this was his answer. And when he he
also interviewed me and if you and there's something I
can quote him because I say to people, this is
not for very young you know, there's a language there
is you.
Speaker 2: Know, it's it's I you know, I.
Speaker 1: Wouldn't under fourteen or fifteen, I wouldn't. I wouldn't go
and see this film. But because of the violence and
some language. But he said, I said, it's probably going
to be R rated, and he stopped. He said, let
me stop you there, because I'm giving my seal of approval.
I read the script. I've seen what you've done. It's
R rated, but it's a rated. It's a double R
for real repentance, for real R for real repentance. You know,
I'm like, so, I'm giving my seal control. I'm like
father and all that. He's not a great, amazing job.
Omar Apps, who is an incredible actor. He told me,
you know, im, did he ever act before? Because he
was so real, he was so there. I said, no,
he's not. He hasn't, but he's really done a fantastic job.
Speaker 2: So yeah, And there's a little scene like where you know,
I get the sense that you really did it on purpose.
There's this there's a little scene where the shot picks
up all these tattoos that are kind of coming out
of the sleeve of his uh, you know, of his
investment and it I mean it makes you feel like, Okay,
this this priest has a story which would make him
understand the Omar character like he has he has a
he has a history. You know, there's something there and
so that you you immediately kind of see the connection,
like a deeper possible connection between the two characters.
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, absolutely, And and and there was one there
was a we obviously filmed. We filmed in an Orthodox church,
but there was a shot that we needed to pick
up of Omar walking to the church that we didn't
film at that particular church because there was there were
better options to shoot it for lighting purposes and the
way it looked outside, So it was a different It
was not an Orthodox church the one that we shot.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but then the father in there was a Baptist church.
So this is a this is an amazing story. I
can share this with you. Incredible priest. And he was
really humble. And and then I come in with Reginald
the King Barry, who was he's got a very deep fate,
but he's an ex chief and gangster and he's still
wearing some of the I don't know what's on some
of on his T shirts so so the father sees him,
and you should have seen the encounter between them too.
And I'm just standing there and goes like, excuse me,
what is that on your chest? And and Reggie's just
got oh, it's nothing, it's just and and then the
father just looking at him like this. Well, it turns
out that the father of this church, the priest of
the church, that he was in the gang before, and
he was in a rival gang. He knew exactly. So
they after that day they spoke and they was it
was all good. And and he also was interview Fairies
interviewed him as well, and he gave an amazing interview,
saying that he's been a pastor for over twenty thirty years,
and he says, I was on the streets, I was
doing terrible things and if God can save me, he
can save anybody. So that's another example. So so there
are a lot of people out there that have amazing stories.
And Saint Moses the Black I mean, I don't know
you're telling me about what's happening in Egypt and the monastery,
but there are a lot of stories of his appearances
here in the US. And it usually happens with people
they're incarcerated or they're going through a lot of trouble.
That he appears quite often to people and it's been
recorded and people talk about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes that makes sense that he would appear
in America and so so tell me a little bit,
how is this going to come out? Like, what is
the how do can people see this? What's the distribution?
Speaker 1: Well, the film is coming out on January thirty. For me,
I love I mean I go by Serbian calendar that's
like Russian or in Mantatos, So January thirtieth follows on
Saint Antony the Great. I love Saint Antony's Great, so
that that that that kind of it's special to me.
So it's coming out on January thirtieth, and it's going
to be in theaters nationwide in the United States. It's
first coming out in the United States, and we're hoping
to have it obviously in Canada and in Europe. I
know Greece will see it, I believe first week of April.
Serbia would like to release it on middle of March,
but Middle East has already bought the film. The West
Africa wants to release, so that it's going to be worldwide.
But but it's first starting here because it's a story
of a gangster in Chicago, and I think that's why
it's probably the best to start in the US, and
hopefully it's going to But also I want to say
this that tickets are on sale already, so please, I
want to I want to let your audience know that
it's very important that we if people can buy the tickets,
they're available everywhere at Fandango, AMC, Regal, Cinema, all the
major platforms. And if people can get tickets and more
tickets we sell, the longer the film is going to
stay in the theater. So please support the film. Tickets
are already on sale and the film is coming out
on the thirtieth of January nationwide in the United States.
Speaker 2: All right, well you heard Youlana, Go and get your
tickets in advance. That way the film can have a
long stay in the cinema and can hopefully have as
much impact as it's as it can have, and through
the blessing of Saint Moses as well, and so maybe
we can finish what I mean, after doing Man of
God and this, these two projects in some ways are
very different from each other. You know what, is your
next vision? What are you working on? If you can
share it, well, I can.
Speaker 1: There are a couple of things floating.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: There is another Saint that that I am intrigued by.
He died, he was martyred in the United States in eighties.
His name is Saint John of Santa Cruz. I'm pretty
much I'm quite fascinated with his story. I'm starting to
develop the script. There is also there is a script
out there about Saint Seraphim of Sorrow that I feel,
you know, I would like to dive into. I think,
sorry s St. St. Serafim Sorrow and also Saint Seraphin Rose.
That's what I wanted to say, a movie on Rose
Serafin Rose, which is really really amazing. I mean, I
think there are so many great stories out there, and
again it doesn't mean I'm going to direct them all.
And now obviously I'm here to help others as well,
talented UH writers and directors that they maybe have some
good ideas about stories of the Saints that can be
told in our contemporary world. With the purpose of telling
some wonderful stories that can inspire people, help people, and
make some good films. You know that that at the
same time. So I'm hoping that this will open the
doors for me as well, not only for me, but
also for other people to do the same. But there
are so many great I mean stories of the saints
are are incredible. I mean, there there is a center
Adora Alexandria that that's that's another incredible story. I don't
know if you know her story, but as a lady
who was uh, she was married and and and and
then she I believe cheated on her husband and she
felt so terrible about it that she ran away to
the monastery and he didn't even know where she was
for so many years. And then she she ended up
going to the monastery pretending she was a man, and
she lived in the monastery until she died, and she there.
It's an incredible prosecution, and they found out she was
a woman only after her repose. That that that's to
me like incredible story as well to tell. So there's
so many amazing story of the saints that that's so.
Speaker 2: I'll definitely be looking forward to see what it is
that you come up.
Speaker 1: With that And what's interesting about the reason I think
about stories of the saints are powerful because there are
people that lived some of them long ago, some of
them not that long ago. And and I feel that
we can relate to their lives because there were people
like us. They just they made different choices than most
of us. But they they they certainly to me, they
always gave me courage and strength to carry on. And
I and and that's why I think these stories are
very important.
Speaker 2: Well, thanks so much, thanks for your time, and thanks
for your vision. And everybody, yeah, pay attention and go
get your tickets. Thanks a lot.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2: I really appreciate it. If you enjoyed these videos and podcasts,
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