WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.359 --> 00:00:08.320 This is an Unspoiled Network podcast. This is spoil Me 2 00:00:09.199 --> 00:00:17.800 covering Dungeon Crawler Carl book seven This Inevitable ruin chapters 3 00:00:17.879 --> 00:00:26.000 twenty three through twenty seven. In these chapters, there is 4 00:00:27.399 --> 00:00:31.760 a major death here that I really thought it would 5 00:00:31.800 --> 00:00:36.359 take us longer to get to, and then once it happens, 6 00:00:37.000 --> 00:00:41.759 I'm like, it wasn't even the death. It was Caral 7 00:00:42.320 --> 00:00:48.799 during the death. That was the climax here. Yikes. Welcome 8 00:00:49.759 --> 00:01:11.799 to spoil Me, Welcome to the I'm so sorry, guys, 9 00:01:11.799 --> 00:01:14.079 I just got so distracted by Michael's comments that it 10 00:01:14.200 --> 00:01:17.519 totally threw me off my intro. Welcome to the show everyone. 11 00:01:17.680 --> 00:01:21.239 I am Natasha. Thank you Michael for commissioning this episode. 12 00:01:21.280 --> 00:01:23.599 But no, thank you Michael to all these comments. Never 13 00:01:23.640 --> 00:01:27.439 say this in front of me again. And that's that. 14 00:01:27.840 --> 00:01:33.000 On that. Yeah, this section, guys, was like a really 15 00:01:33.120 --> 00:01:37.840 surprising section because I thought it was going to take 16 00:01:37.879 --> 00:01:40.040 a bit longer for us to get a major death. 17 00:01:41.959 --> 00:01:46.799 Not a major like ally death, to be clear, but 18 00:01:47.200 --> 00:01:53.040 I just really never expected this to happen so quickly, 19 00:01:53.120 --> 00:01:59.560 and it being in Pristinadia, She's like such a figure 20 00:02:00.079 --> 00:02:03.680 in my mind of representation of everything, that Carl in 21 00:02:03.719 --> 00:02:07.840 particular hates that I thought we'd be saving her for 22 00:02:07.920 --> 00:02:11.240 like later in the book, and I have no problem 23 00:02:11.319 --> 00:02:13.759 for the record killing her now, but it was just 24 00:02:13.800 --> 00:02:16.360 not what I was thinking the order of things was 25 00:02:16.400 --> 00:02:21.159 going to be. So let us begin. Chapter twenty three 26 00:02:22.520 --> 00:02:26.400 starts with like the note from Crawler Ossi about creating 27 00:02:26.520 --> 00:02:34.599 confusion to make an enemy frightened, and the way that 28 00:02:34.719 --> 00:02:41.960 this whole thing kind of like it ramps up and 29 00:02:42.879 --> 00:02:45.080 we know that they're working on something, but we don't 30 00:02:45.159 --> 00:02:49.800 really get any details at this point. It's not until 31 00:02:50.280 --> 00:02:54.560 later when we get Victory talking to him that we 32 00:02:54.719 --> 00:02:58.280 find out exactly what it was that Carl had set 33 00:02:58.360 --> 00:03:05.919 up and on She seems kind of flicked out, Like 34 00:03:07.439 --> 00:03:13.800 I was startled by how much it's it's I was 35 00:03:13.879 --> 00:03:18.199 thinking any type of victory for her team, she would 36 00:03:18.240 --> 00:03:21.400 be very much on board for you know that it 37 00:03:21.479 --> 00:03:24.960 was just going to be like, yeah, way to play 38 00:03:24.960 --> 00:03:29.199 the system, that's my jam, I'm proud of you kind 39 00:03:29.240 --> 00:03:34.840 of energy, and instead it's more like, you guys came 40 00:03:34.919 --> 00:03:37.280 up with something I hadn't even thought of, and I 41 00:03:37.319 --> 00:03:40.360 spend a lot of time thinking about this, So now 42 00:03:41.039 --> 00:03:46.639 I kind of feel uncertain and unsettled because I'm realizing 43 00:03:46.759 --> 00:03:49.520 I thought I knew the ground that we stood on, 44 00:03:49.560 --> 00:03:53.439 and I don't not the way that I thought. And 45 00:03:53.719 --> 00:03:58.879 I really like you guys know how much I love 46 00:03:58.919 --> 00:04:01.719 her as a character already, Like immediately out of the 47 00:04:01.759 --> 00:04:03.360 get I was just sort of like, yeah, uh huh, 48 00:04:03.400 --> 00:04:07.919 this bitch is it for her to be like shook? 49 00:04:08.560 --> 00:04:14.479 Has me shook? I part of me wants to say 50 00:04:14.479 --> 00:04:16.160 I don't like it. Another part of me is like, no, 51 00:04:16.240 --> 00:04:20.040 I definitely like it. I'm very torn here where I'm 52 00:04:20.120 --> 00:04:22.480 just sort of it's making me like a little anxious. 53 00:04:22.519 --> 00:04:26.560 But I also if even she can be surprised, then 54 00:04:26.600 --> 00:04:28.839 we're really in for a ride, you know what I'm saying, 55 00:04:31.279 --> 00:04:33.759 Michael says. Brent said in the spoiler discord throw that 56 00:04:33.800 --> 00:04:35.839 he found it tough to read about her death. I 57 00:04:35.839 --> 00:04:38.480 have to say that I agree. Each time I reread 58 00:04:38.519 --> 00:04:41.240 and re listen to these sections, I find myself not 59 00:04:41.480 --> 00:04:47.000 sympathizing more, but empathizing more. And it is tough. Yes, 60 00:04:48.759 --> 00:04:54.720 this is such It's such an interesting thing. I don't 61 00:04:54.759 --> 00:04:58.600 know how much of this is on purpose, how much 62 00:04:58.639 --> 00:05:00.920 of this is accidental because of who we are as people. 63 00:05:02.839 --> 00:05:08.079 I don't know, I don't know, but I am going 64 00:05:08.160 --> 00:05:19.959 to say the audiobook narrator especially gives Empersinnadia a sort 65 00:05:19.959 --> 00:05:23.480 of tremulousness to her voice that I feel like it 66 00:05:23.519 --> 00:05:27.759 would have been very easy to play her death scene 67 00:05:28.000 --> 00:05:35.319 as her being sort of nasal and irritating in her upset, 68 00:05:36.480 --> 00:05:41.600 and instead he makes her feel really genuinely afraid and 69 00:05:41.800 --> 00:05:47.439 genuinely sad. And it's there's something also, like I understand 70 00:05:47.439 --> 00:05:49.959 the necessity. There's so many things, and I know I'm 71 00:05:50.000 --> 00:05:54.519 jumping ahead, guys, but Karl is worried about there being 72 00:05:54.560 --> 00:05:59.560 further traps in her dress, so he has the clockwork 73 00:05:59.639 --> 00:06:03.120 manga rip her dress up to make sure that there's 74 00:06:03.160 --> 00:06:09.240 not another shield. And I get why, but it just 75 00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:14.040 this is the sort of thing that an enemy might 76 00:06:14.079 --> 00:06:19.279 do simply to humiliate somebody before killing them. That is 77 00:06:19.360 --> 00:06:22.560 not what is happening here. Explicitly, it is not what 78 00:06:22.600 --> 00:06:26.920 has happened. There is a reason, but there is something 79 00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:33.360 about that detail, as well as her voice, as well 80 00:06:33.399 --> 00:06:44.079 as the rage of Carl, that the whole scene, instead 81 00:06:44.160 --> 00:06:47.759 of it being this satisfying fist pump, Yeah, we got 82 00:06:47.759 --> 00:06:51.160 our sort of victory, for me, it was like sickening 83 00:06:52.959 --> 00:06:56.639 which I think is a fucking triumph as an author, 84 00:06:56.759 --> 00:07:01.319 because I don't think Matt Denneman wants us to be 85 00:07:01.399 --> 00:07:07.160 fist pumping. I think part of what he's trying to 86 00:07:07.240 --> 00:07:12.480 do with this whole series is emphasize everybody is a person, 87 00:07:13.319 --> 00:07:18.519 even when they're garbage, even when they are making evil 88 00:07:18.639 --> 00:07:24.399 choices and doing cruel shit, there's still a person that 89 00:07:24.439 --> 00:07:30.519 doesn't change that they are not suddenly this unknowable monster. 90 00:07:32.079 --> 00:07:37.920 And in the moments before death, you get to really 91 00:07:38.079 --> 00:07:43.920 see this in such a naked and raw way that 92 00:07:45.600 --> 00:07:49.199 it can be very tempting to almost be like, maybe 93 00:07:49.240 --> 00:07:53.879 we shouldn't kill her. Look at how fucking broken she is, 94 00:07:54.240 --> 00:07:59.759 you know. And I feel like that serves both to 95 00:07:59.800 --> 00:08:05.240 make Karl's rage in the moment and his desire to 96 00:08:05.279 --> 00:08:08.040 be the one to kill her. It makes it feel 97 00:08:09.040 --> 00:08:17.759 more grotesque in the moment, and it also helps me 98 00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:21.000 to imagine what Dona is feeling when she sees what's 99 00:08:21.040 --> 00:08:25.720 going on with him. And I just think it's really 100 00:08:25.759 --> 00:08:31.240 important if we're going to be talking about like revolution, 101 00:08:32.720 --> 00:08:36.639 building community to overthrow people who are doing harm and 102 00:08:36.679 --> 00:08:39.600 making all kinds of excuses for why this doing harm 103 00:08:39.639 --> 00:08:45.679 isn't really that bad. We can feel a sort of 104 00:08:46.159 --> 00:08:52.279 grim sense of accomplishment when somebody is taken out, but 105 00:08:52.399 --> 00:08:56.200 that is a very different thing than glorying in their death, 106 00:08:57.360 --> 00:09:05.519 feeling gleefulness about it, or otherwise like almost romanticizing the 107 00:09:05.639 --> 00:09:10.600 moment to make it something that's like really cinematic and 108 00:09:11.080 --> 00:09:15.600 distanced from reality in a storybook kind of way. I 109 00:09:15.639 --> 00:09:17.840 feel like he is going out of his way to 110 00:09:18.080 --> 00:09:20.919 ensure that when we face down with some of these people, 111 00:09:22.080 --> 00:09:25.360 we keep being brought down to earth for a second, 112 00:09:25.519 --> 00:09:30.600 U punintended and reminded. This is just a person. They 113 00:09:30.639 --> 00:09:35.360 aren't the system. They are a participant in a system, 114 00:09:35.600 --> 00:09:38.279 and that doesn't excuse any of their actions, but just 115 00:09:38.320 --> 00:09:42.759 a reminder they're just a person. They're just one person. 116 00:09:43.639 --> 00:09:48.000 And I think that's so important. And I just don't 117 00:09:48.080 --> 00:09:52.600 know were I writing this, if I would be able 118 00:09:52.639 --> 00:09:55.679 to keep that in mind myself as an author, you know, 119 00:09:55.840 --> 00:09:57.840 if I would be able to make this scene as 120 00:09:57.840 --> 00:10:02.919 effective as it is, because like, it doesn't feel like 121 00:10:02.960 --> 00:10:11.879 a victory. It doesn't feel like a great and triumphant 122 00:10:12.039 --> 00:10:17.639 moment for us. It feels like we just missed something 123 00:10:17.720 --> 00:10:21.360 really bad happening to our guy. It was a close 124 00:10:21.399 --> 00:10:25.759 call for it. They're in like full control of the scene. 125 00:10:25.879 --> 00:10:28.480 There's no moment where I'm actually worried for Carl and 126 00:10:28.519 --> 00:10:34.320 Donut safety. In regard to UH and Personadia, it's the 127 00:10:34.399 --> 00:10:42.279 two of them on top with no question. And yet 128 00:10:43.080 --> 00:10:46.639 I am worried about Carl in the scene, not because 129 00:10:46.679 --> 00:10:51.559 of her, but because of him and his choices and 130 00:10:51.639 --> 00:10:56.960 what he is doing to himself. Which this is a 131 00:10:57.000 --> 00:11:07.480 brilliant move storytelling wise, this ring. It's like what Karl 132 00:11:07.600 --> 00:11:12.240 is motivated by is what he gets out of the 133 00:11:12.320 --> 00:11:18.840 ring in terms of stat points and whatnot, which all 134 00:11:18.919 --> 00:11:28.080 of that valid, huge advantage, right, But what are you 135 00:11:28.159 --> 00:11:31.440 letting it do to you? He says later to Donut 136 00:11:31.519 --> 00:11:33.320 that he isn't going to give it up yet because 137 00:11:33.360 --> 00:11:37.879 he needs it. He needs to be stronger. And I 138 00:11:37.919 --> 00:11:42.440 would argue it's making you weaker. It's stronger in a way, 139 00:11:43.440 --> 00:11:46.120 but if you are barely in control of yourself in 140 00:11:46.159 --> 00:11:51.080 a moment like this where so much matters, that's weakening 141 00:11:51.120 --> 00:11:57.440 you in a way that's really significant, not only to 142 00:11:57.720 --> 00:12:03.519 yourself and your integrity as a person within yourself, but 143 00:12:03.679 --> 00:12:10.039 also as a figurehead for this entire movement, because like Carl, 144 00:12:10.480 --> 00:12:17.799 is the de facto face of this rebellion, and if 145 00:12:17.840 --> 00:12:23.000 he does something that's really unhinged, that could very easily 146 00:12:23.080 --> 00:12:29.519 begin to just discredit the motivations that he has and 147 00:12:29.639 --> 00:12:32.519 cause a lot of people who have been up to 148 00:12:32.600 --> 00:12:37.679 this point kind of following him willingly to sort of wonder, 149 00:12:38.600 --> 00:12:42.960 are we being run by a madman? It can really 150 00:12:43.000 --> 00:12:46.039 have an effect on the morale of everybody if you're 151 00:12:46.080 --> 00:12:50.320 on video like torturing somebody to death and enjoying it, 152 00:12:50.440 --> 00:12:56.000 you know what I mean? I just I understand why 153 00:12:56.759 --> 00:13:02.000 this ring is so difficult to give up. I really 154 00:13:02.159 --> 00:13:07.759 really really get it. But I think he is having 155 00:13:08.440 --> 00:13:12.759 a lot of very short term thinking right now, and 156 00:13:12.919 --> 00:13:16.120 I am not sure. Even though he claims to see 157 00:13:16.120 --> 00:13:19.159 the moment where he's up on the edge, it still 158 00:13:19.320 --> 00:13:23.519 doesn't really feel like he fully comprehends how close he 159 00:13:23.639 --> 00:13:27.759 came to just completely losing it. And I don't know 160 00:13:28.440 --> 00:13:32.559 how many more near misses he's gonna be allowed to get. Like, 161 00:13:34.480 --> 00:13:37.960 what is going to have to happen for you to 162 00:13:38.000 --> 00:13:40.600 be willing to give the ring up? Dude? How bad 163 00:13:40.759 --> 00:13:46.320 do you have to hurt? Donut? Because like, all I 164 00:13:46.360 --> 00:13:50.519 can think about is she Maria and she took his 165 00:13:50.600 --> 00:13:54.440 body over and made him do these horrible things that 166 00:13:54.519 --> 00:13:58.759 hurt people. He was fully not in control, and yet 167 00:13:58.759 --> 00:14:04.639 he still feels this guilt about what happened. What happens 168 00:14:04.639 --> 00:14:09.399 when it is you, when it is like you are 169 00:14:09.440 --> 00:14:12.039 still not in control of yourself, but not because an 170 00:14:12.200 --> 00:14:15.120 entity is taking you over, but because you have let 171 00:14:15.200 --> 00:14:21.399 your rage control you. What happens? Then how do you 172 00:14:21.519 --> 00:14:29.279 come back? I don't know, you know, like setting aside 173 00:14:29.399 --> 00:14:35.559 the movement itself, the rebellion? What just about your relationship 174 00:14:35.639 --> 00:14:38.519 with Donut after she told you that you're scaring her 175 00:14:38.519 --> 00:14:42.720 and you refuse to get rid of the ring? What 176 00:14:43.679 --> 00:14:46.080 do you do to repair it? If you hurt her, 177 00:14:46.840 --> 00:14:50.159 or you hurt Mongo or any one of your other allies, 178 00:14:51.320 --> 00:14:53.559 or even if you hurt an enemy, but you do 179 00:14:53.639 --> 00:14:56.879 it in such a way that it's obvious you're enjoying yourself. 180 00:14:58.559 --> 00:15:03.039 How do you fix that? It's a lot harder to 181 00:15:03.080 --> 00:15:07.840 fix that than it is to adjust to not using 182 00:15:07.879 --> 00:15:20.080 this ring. Ah. Anyway, I just saw a bunch of 183 00:15:20.120 --> 00:15:23.000 comments and I'm having to like scroll backward a little 184 00:15:23.039 --> 00:15:27.360 bit here. Jeff says it's as if he wrote it 185 00:15:27.399 --> 00:15:30.720 at Hollywood, saying don't make this movie. Saraph him says, 186 00:15:31.679 --> 00:15:33.960 she always came off not so much as an asshole, 187 00:15:34.000 --> 00:15:36.480 like say the Skull Empire, just as a person who's 188 00:15:36.519 --> 00:15:39.000 been so privileged and sheltered her whole life. She simply 189 00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:42.639 doesn't get how horrific all this truly is. Henry says, 190 00:15:42.679 --> 00:15:45.080 war ruins people, and Michael says, yeah, pretty sure it 191 00:15:45.159 --> 00:15:46.840 was deliberate. I think you can see it in Carl's 192 00:15:46.840 --> 00:15:49.039 reaction to her death. Afterward, his rage is gone and 193 00:15:49.120 --> 00:15:53.600 he just feels empty and mournful. Jeff says that glee 194 00:15:53.639 --> 00:15:57.360 is why I've always hated murder quips in movies. Fair 195 00:15:58.039 --> 00:16:00.720 The unhinged exultation of violence from reminds me of the 196 00:16:00.759 --> 00:16:05.399 Red Court King in Dresden. That's an interesting one. There 197 00:16:05.440 --> 00:16:09.080 are other characters that I think of, but not that guy. 198 00:16:09.759 --> 00:16:13.720 Like in a way, sure, but there's like another character. 199 00:16:14.159 --> 00:16:16.360 Michael says, no spoilers. I'm trying to motivate myself to 200 00:16:16.360 --> 00:16:19.360 read the new books he put out. It's this isn't 201 00:16:19.399 --> 00:16:21.360 a reference to a new book. It's a reference to 202 00:16:23.240 --> 00:16:27.039 proven guilty. But there are some beings in that who 203 00:16:27.120 --> 00:16:33.440 have a real gleefulness in the violence and the oh no, sorry, 204 00:16:33.519 --> 00:16:36.200 Jeff is saying, changes, the red court changes. Yeah, I'm 205 00:16:36.200 --> 00:16:38.679 talking about the one that I'm thinking of, which is 206 00:16:38.679 --> 00:16:42.759 in proven guilty, and it's uh, there's an attack in 207 00:16:42.759 --> 00:16:47.279 a bathroom and Dresden goes back to the scene and 208 00:16:47.960 --> 00:16:53.519 feels this like happiness that something is feeling as it 209 00:16:53.519 --> 00:16:57.600 beats the shit out of somebody, and it's like that, 210 00:16:57.600 --> 00:17:03.159 that's the thing that I'm worried about, you know, Seraphim says. 211 00:17:03.159 --> 00:17:05.319 The thing is, I never saw the ring as being 212 00:17:05.359 --> 00:17:07.599 the issue or causing any of this, and it's more 213 00:17:07.680 --> 00:17:10.200 just a symptom of the larger issue of what being 214 00:17:10.279 --> 00:17:13.559 in this crawl is doing to him. Michael says, I 215 00:17:13.559 --> 00:17:15.480 definitely think the ring is affecting him, though his hands 216 00:17:15.480 --> 00:17:18.359 shaking as he was taking it off really implies it is. 217 00:17:21.279 --> 00:17:24.039 I think both are true. I think it's definitely meant 218 00:17:24.079 --> 00:17:31.359 to be a metaphor the ring, but also I think 219 00:17:31.400 --> 00:17:34.759 the ring is actually physically creating a feedback loop in 220 00:17:34.839 --> 00:17:40.920 him that is amplifying what he feels when it's anger 221 00:17:40.960 --> 00:17:44.640 and hatred and rage. And I think that's what the 222 00:17:44.759 --> 00:17:51.759 name of it implies. Even though the ring of divine suffering, 223 00:17:52.079 --> 00:17:59.519 who's suffering because Karl suffers. And it's very easy to 224 00:17:59.519 --> 00:18:02.680 be like you're profiting off the suffering of others because 225 00:18:02.680 --> 00:18:04.319 you put the ring on and you get a boost 226 00:18:04.319 --> 00:18:10.680 when you kill someone. But killing people eats at you, 227 00:18:12.119 --> 00:18:15.960 and whether or not you think it does, unless you 228 00:18:16.039 --> 00:18:22.519 really have no conscience whatsoever, I believe that the suffering 229 00:18:22.559 --> 00:18:27.119 is inflicted on the wearer, and that it being like 230 00:18:27.160 --> 00:18:31.640 a divine suffering is like the hatred and anger that 231 00:18:31.680 --> 00:18:35.160 you feel will be amplified so that you can like 232 00:18:35.680 --> 00:18:37.799 kill more easily in the moment you can get the 233 00:18:37.880 --> 00:18:44.839 job done. But those are not pleasant emotions. It may 234 00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:48.880 not it may seem odd to say that when you 235 00:18:49.319 --> 00:18:55.799 hate someone you are suffering, but I think that's correct. 236 00:18:56.519 --> 00:19:00.960 I think that's just sort of the way that works, 237 00:19:01.039 --> 00:19:03.119 even if we can't feel it in the moment, you know. 238 00:19:06.039 --> 00:19:10.839 So I don't know exactly what it is that, like 239 00:19:11.400 --> 00:19:16.519 how much giving it away would affect Karl, Like what 240 00:19:16.720 --> 00:19:21.640 kind of loss would he suffer to his various stats 241 00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:24.160 if he got rid of it. I really don't know. 242 00:19:25.279 --> 00:19:31.119 I just feel like I don't think whatever that loss is, 243 00:19:31.359 --> 00:19:36.519 that it would be worth what he's what he's cultivating 244 00:19:36.599 --> 00:19:38.559 in himself, right now. And that's really the only way 245 00:19:38.559 --> 00:19:42.359 that I can put it, because at this point this 246 00:19:42.519 --> 00:19:46.559 is a choice. He is aware what it's doing to him, 247 00:19:47.039 --> 00:19:50.799 and he is still choosing and tries to say, I 248 00:19:50.880 --> 00:19:52.559 don't know what came over me, And I was so 249 00:19:52.640 --> 00:19:56.279 glad that Donna is like, the fuck you don't you 250 00:19:56.359 --> 00:19:59.680 know exactly what came over you? And I was so 251 00:19:59.759 --> 00:20:02.319 plea is that she just doesn't let him get away 252 00:20:02.319 --> 00:20:05.759 with that. Oh, I have no idea. What shut the 253 00:20:05.799 --> 00:20:09.839 fuck up. Don't insult me by playing in my face 254 00:20:09.880 --> 00:20:18.359 about this. It's not a mystery, dude, you know, Michael says. 255 00:20:19.119 --> 00:20:21.319 We've also heard Mordecai I say the Ring is really 256 00:20:21.359 --> 00:20:23.920 popular for the warlords for its power boost. How much 257 00:20:23.960 --> 00:20:26.599 has the Ring affected them? Have stuff in the game 258 00:20:27.400 --> 00:20:30.480 amplify their blood thirstiness or their callous disregard for crawlers 259 00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:35.640 and NPCs, something to maybe think about, possible. Jeff says 260 00:20:35.640 --> 00:20:38.200 earlier about the King that he is addicted to her. Oh, 261 00:20:38.319 --> 00:20:41.160 in changes, I thought that it was much more. The 262 00:20:41.240 --> 00:20:45.440 King is just addicted to He's a blood addict. It's 263 00:20:45.480 --> 00:20:49.400 not the hurting. The hurting is incidental, but it does 264 00:20:49.440 --> 00:20:51.680 not matter. This is not a Dreasden podcast, Jeff says, 265 00:20:51.680 --> 00:20:54.039 making it so you have to heal them before making 266 00:20:54.079 --> 00:20:57.440 them before marking them is super insidious. It turns them 267 00:20:57.440 --> 00:21:00.119 into a hardcore murderer instead of someone taking advantage of 268 00:21:00.119 --> 00:21:08.920 an opportunity. Agreed, Agreed. It's just it's a really there's 269 00:21:09.200 --> 00:21:13.880 there's a certain sequence here, and I feel like the 270 00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:22.559 moment I remember approving of him using the ring on 271 00:21:24.720 --> 00:21:29.960 Prepotente's mom Miriam dom and I still like, in terms 272 00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:34.519 of the actual practicality of that moment, I do stand 273 00:21:34.559 --> 00:21:40.680 by it, but I just really it's the sort of 274 00:21:40.680 --> 00:21:42.519 thing where I'm like, I didn't want him using the 275 00:21:42.599 --> 00:21:45.119 ring at all to begin with. If he's gonna use it, 276 00:21:45.200 --> 00:21:47.359 then yeah, that was the right call in that moment, 277 00:21:48.200 --> 00:21:51.839 but like, just don't use it. Though everybody was right 278 00:21:52.759 --> 00:21:58.160 regarding what danger this poses. Mordecai's been around enough. If 279 00:21:58.160 --> 00:22:01.720 he's that flipped out the you have this ring, I 280 00:22:01.759 --> 00:22:03.720 think you need to take that a lot more seriously. 281 00:22:03.839 --> 00:22:09.640 And he just really isn't hearing it. I just look, 282 00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:16.480 a lot of the theming behind this book has been 283 00:22:18.400 --> 00:22:24.599 Carl feeling really alone and really angry and occasionally being 284 00:22:24.640 --> 00:22:28.559 reminded I'm not alone. There are other people in this 285 00:22:28.640 --> 00:22:32.079 with me. There are other people who believe in this 286 00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:38.000 cause that are willing to sacrifice and organize, you know, 287 00:22:39.279 --> 00:22:45.640 And this ring is something that serves to further isolate him. 288 00:22:46.960 --> 00:22:52.759 And the fact that we had that moment of Louis 289 00:22:52.799 --> 00:22:56.279 being like, you come in here with your crazy eyes 290 00:22:56.319 --> 00:22:59.079 and I'm just waiting for you to suddenly lose your 291 00:22:59.079 --> 00:23:03.160 shit and kill everybody. I don't feel like that had 292 00:23:03.319 --> 00:23:06.599 enough of an impact on Carl to hear you know 293 00:23:06.640 --> 00:23:12.160 what I'm saying, Like, do not telling him you're scaring me? 294 00:23:13.119 --> 00:23:18.759 And Louie having told him that earlier, I need you 295 00:23:18.839 --> 00:23:27.640 to hear, very bluntly, what is happening, Carl. You are 296 00:23:27.759 --> 00:23:33.799 turning into the kind of man your father was that 297 00:23:33.960 --> 00:23:39.279 people were afraid of and tiptoed around because he became 298 00:23:40.240 --> 00:23:46.400 so prone to violence and so unpredictable and in a 299 00:23:46.440 --> 00:23:54.880 way predictable actually, but like what you are trying to 300 00:23:54.880 --> 00:23:59.960 fight against, you can become quite easily. That is how 301 00:24:00.119 --> 00:24:05.359 it works. That's the trap, and you better fucking watch it. 302 00:24:05.920 --> 00:24:10.119 And I do not feel he is watching it adequately. 303 00:24:11.319 --> 00:24:16.440 I do not feel that he takes these moments seriously 304 00:24:16.559 --> 00:24:21.079 enough because they are scary. I'm comfortable, deeply inconvenient, by 305 00:24:21.119 --> 00:24:23.920 the way, and he doesn't want to face up to 306 00:24:23.960 --> 00:24:32.000 what it means. And I really really understand that. I'm 307 00:24:32.039 --> 00:24:38.640 profoundly I understand. But the stakes at this point are 308 00:24:38.720 --> 00:24:43.160 so high it's funny. He's interpreting it as differently as 309 00:24:43.319 --> 00:24:46.319 possible from me where I'm going. The stakes are way 310 00:24:46.319 --> 00:24:49.200 too high for you to keep ignoring this, and he 311 00:24:49.359 --> 00:24:51.759 is going the stakes are way too high for me 312 00:24:51.839 --> 00:24:55.640 to bother with this right now. I'm sorry, Carl, but 313 00:24:55.720 --> 00:24:58.319 this is literally what it's all about. And if you 314 00:24:58.400 --> 00:25:05.400 let this start to slide, that's it. What have you got? 315 00:25:05.519 --> 00:25:10.319 What are you fighting for? Then? What is it? You know? 316 00:25:10.640 --> 00:25:19.480 Like So anyway, Seraphim says, I still don't see it 317 00:25:19.480 --> 00:25:21.559 as some one ring type thing as much as it 318 00:25:21.720 --> 00:25:23.880 just a tool designed to encourage people to give into 319 00:25:23.880 --> 00:25:28.119 their darker aspects to make them better crawlers disagree. I 320 00:25:28.160 --> 00:25:31.039 think it's a tool. I don't. I'm not saying it 321 00:25:31.079 --> 00:25:34.279 is a one ring type thing, but I definitely think 322 00:25:34.319 --> 00:25:38.519 that it has an inf I mean, the AI basically 323 00:25:38.720 --> 00:25:44.319 said so. In its description. It said something like, I 324 00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:47.119 sure hope there's not some weird side effects from using 325 00:25:47.160 --> 00:25:50.480 this ring that would be really bad. Like, it's definitely, 326 00:25:50.960 --> 00:25:53.799 to me, without question, affecting him in some other way 327 00:25:54.160 --> 00:25:56.319 I don't like. To me, that's not even a question. 328 00:25:56.920 --> 00:26:02.000 It's simply how is that happening? How much of that is? 329 00:26:04.559 --> 00:26:08.200 How much does the ring need to influence him before 330 00:26:09.920 --> 00:26:13.279 it no longer even needs to keep pushing and it 331 00:26:13.440 --> 00:26:16.480 sort of begins to snowball on its own. You can 332 00:26:16.559 --> 00:26:21.400 just give somebody a couple of pushes and then it 333 00:26:21.440 --> 00:26:23.279 takes off in a certain direction and you can just 334 00:26:23.359 --> 00:26:25.640 step back and put your hands behind your back and 335 00:26:25.640 --> 00:26:35.240 whistle and neck like you didn't do anything. So oh yeah, 336 00:26:35.400 --> 00:26:37.599 Michael says. The AI had the ominous description, and it 337 00:26:37.640 --> 00:26:39.839 mentions it a couple of times. It had another line 338 00:26:39.839 --> 00:26:41.960 about the ring doing something far worse to him when 339 00:26:41.960 --> 00:26:44.519 it was talking about something else affecting him, if I recall. 340 00:26:45.960 --> 00:26:48.960 And that's also the thing with like the Daughter's Kiss, 341 00:26:49.200 --> 00:26:52.000 is that the way the name of it, But that one, 342 00:26:52.079 --> 00:26:55.000 it's a much more obvious thing because it's actual literal 343 00:26:55.079 --> 00:26:57.839 soul poisoning that he'll get like a notification for, and 344 00:26:57.880 --> 00:27:01.160 it will warn him AT's happening, and there will be 345 00:27:01.200 --> 00:27:03.359 a specific d buff to go along with it. That 346 00:27:03.440 --> 00:27:07.480 is something that is quantifiable, and therefore, as much as 347 00:27:07.519 --> 00:27:11.359 it's terrifying, because he knocks himself out later, it doesn't 348 00:27:11.400 --> 00:27:13.920 scare me as much as the ring does, because this 349 00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:17.359 is something that is so much more insidious, so much 350 00:27:17.400 --> 00:27:19.519 more difficult to put your finger on. It is something 351 00:27:19.519 --> 00:27:22.039 from the outside that it seems you can see happening 352 00:27:22.079 --> 00:27:28.359 to him, but there's not an easy way to like 353 00:27:28.720 --> 00:27:33.759 verbalize what it is. And because it is so vague, 354 00:27:34.400 --> 00:27:37.119 he can deny it or pretend it's not as big 355 00:27:37.160 --> 00:27:41.519 a deal. I don't know, like donuts, the person who 356 00:27:41.559 --> 00:27:44.799 knows him best, and the fact that she is afraid, 357 00:27:46.079 --> 00:27:49.000 I think she'd be the last straw for him. And 358 00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:54.839 it makes me really sad how quick he is to 359 00:27:55.000 --> 00:27:58.279 just be like, not yet. There is not going to 360 00:27:58.319 --> 00:28:02.759 be a point going forward, Carl, where it will be 361 00:28:02.759 --> 00:28:06.039 better and easier to get rid of the ring. He's 362 00:28:06.079 --> 00:28:11.839 acting like there's going to be some point where it 363 00:28:11.920 --> 00:28:15.720 will like will have reached peak and I won't need 364 00:28:15.759 --> 00:28:22.400 it anymore. When when would that be? When do you think, 365 00:28:23.400 --> 00:28:27.920 after you win, how long will that take? How much 366 00:28:28.000 --> 00:28:31.880 damage will have been done by then? If you had 367 00:28:31.920 --> 00:28:39.880 been here alone, or if Donut hadn't talked you out 368 00:28:39.920 --> 00:28:44.240 of it, what would you have done to Impersonnadia, what 369 00:28:44.279 --> 00:28:50.480 would you have done? How? Like, It's just it is 370 00:28:50.519 --> 00:28:53.279 such a close call to me, and he just isn't 371 00:28:53.839 --> 00:28:57.880 treating it like that. He's really behaving like this is 372 00:28:57.920 --> 00:29:02.599 a one off moment rather than a symptom of a 373 00:29:02.680 --> 00:29:05.839 larger problem that is only going to continue to grow. 374 00:29:10.079 --> 00:29:15.240 It's just, guys, it's really upsetting man. So I'm going 375 00:29:15.279 --> 00:29:20.079 to back up here, but I don't regret starting with 376 00:29:20.160 --> 00:29:22.519 that scene. We'll get there too, because I want to 377 00:29:22.599 --> 00:29:28.920 talk about some specific lines. But Immani shows up as 378 00:29:28.920 --> 00:29:32.160 they're in the trenches and she is buffing everybody to 379 00:29:32.640 --> 00:29:36.160 calm them down and like, you know, relieve their anxiety, 380 00:29:36.160 --> 00:29:40.759 which people are actually physically sighing in relief when she 381 00:29:40.880 --> 00:29:47.640 does this. So let's see. The original plan was to 382 00:29:47.640 --> 00:29:50.799 have more tribuchetes, but the confusion about whether we'd be 383 00:29:50.799 --> 00:29:53.519 allowed to build these, mixed with the early end to 384 00:29:53.559 --> 00:29:56.960 the ceasefire, had led to us only having one. It 385 00:29:57.000 --> 00:30:00.319 was loaded with about fifty contraptions called dazzlers, and they 386 00:30:00.319 --> 00:30:03.759 had a pile of almost two hundreds sitting nearby. They 387 00:30:03.759 --> 00:30:07.640 were basically a combination of an alarm and spotlight trap. 388 00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:10.319 They would only shine toward the eyes of the closest 389 00:30:10.400 --> 00:30:14.680 enemy soldier, strobing powerful beams of multicolored light right into 390 00:30:14.680 --> 00:30:17.599 their faces, and they'd all play the same song at 391 00:30:17.640 --> 00:30:19.960 the same time. It was one of the few types 392 00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:22.759 of trap modules. Victory would allow us to load into 393 00:30:22.759 --> 00:30:27.440 the tribu Chaise. She crept into existence just behind us, 394 00:30:27.480 --> 00:30:32.119 like I'd summoned her with my thoughts, and she has 395 00:30:32.359 --> 00:30:38.880 Drick with her. Victory had told me adjutants could go 396 00:30:38.920 --> 00:30:41.599 invisible if they needed to observe something where their presence 397 00:30:41.640 --> 00:30:43.720 would give away that their team was up to something. 398 00:30:44.079 --> 00:30:46.559 I was going to say something sarcastic, but I dropped it. 399 00:30:48.680 --> 00:30:52.079 We see the target. This is Louis lowering for the bombing. Run. 400 00:30:52.160 --> 00:30:55.400 Now get into the fog as soon as you drop, 401 00:30:58.079 --> 00:31:01.240