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Applying any website for detail. 47 00:02:12.520 --> 00:02:15.960 You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking 48 00:02:16.039 --> 00:02:19.080 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 49 00:02:19.159 --> 00:02:26.439 written about them. Gasey Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK Every 50 00:02:26.479 --> 00:02:30.159 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 51 00:02:30.240 --> 00:02:34.439 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your 52 00:02:34.439 --> 00:02:38.319 host journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 53 00:02:47.360 --> 00:02:51.879 Good Evening. During the mid nineteen eighties, a brutal killing 54 00:02:51.879 --> 00:02:55.439 spree began in Los Angeles as several women were murdered, 55 00:02:55.960 --> 00:02:58.520 having been sexually assaulted and shot in the chest with 56 00:02:58.599 --> 00:03:03.360 the same twenty five caliber gunn The man responsible was 57 00:03:03.439 --> 00:03:07.719 Lonnie David Franklin Junior. However, his identity wouldn't be revealed 58 00:03:07.719 --> 00:03:10.520 for more than twenty years, by which time he had 59 00:03:10.599 --> 00:03:15.479 become one of US America's most prolific serial killers. At 60 00:03:15.520 --> 00:03:17.960 the time, Los Angeles was a city struggling under the 61 00:03:18.000 --> 00:03:21.719 weight of racial inequalities in a crack epidemic that was 62 00:03:21.759 --> 00:03:26.000 sweeping through its most deprived areas. The victims were black 63 00:03:26.039 --> 00:03:29.759 women and often addicts and sex workers. Many in the 64 00:03:29.759 --> 00:03:32.919 communities of South Central felt that these factors all caused 65 00:03:32.919 --> 00:03:36.240 a lack of interest on the part of LAPD in 66 00:03:36.240 --> 00:03:39.840 investigating the murders, allowing Franklin to carry on his killing 67 00:03:39.879 --> 00:03:43.960 spree undetected. The book they were featuring, the Sevening is 68 00:03:44.120 --> 00:03:48.240 The Grim Sleeper Talking with America's most notorious serial killer, 69 00:03:48.360 --> 00:03:51.960 Lonnie Franklin Junior, with my special guest, journalist and author 70 00:03:52.240 --> 00:03:56.159 and filmmaker Victoria Redstall. Welcome back to the program, and 71 00:03:56.199 --> 00:04:01.639 thank you very much for agreeing this interview. Victoria Redstall, Hello, 72 00:04:01.919 --> 00:04:05.280 thank you for having me. Thank you very much, Welcome 73 00:04:05.280 --> 00:04:09.639 back to the program. Congratulations on The Grim Sleeper and 74 00:04:09.879 --> 00:04:17.319 this exclusive interviews with Lonnie Franklin Jr. Which you come 75 00:04:17.399 --> 00:04:20.240 up with this end product, The Grim Sleeper Talking with 76 00:04:20.279 --> 00:04:24.839 America's most notorious serial killer. As you do write in 77 00:04:24.879 --> 00:04:28.600 the book, tell us you mentioned a couple of people 78 00:04:28.639 --> 00:04:34.879 that you think right off immediately for access to information 79 00:04:35.160 --> 00:04:37.600 and all the help in putting this incredible book together. 80 00:04:37.639 --> 00:04:43.000 So as you do tell us the just without much introduction, 81 00:04:43.480 --> 00:04:46.319 who these people are that you think for this book. 82 00:04:48.160 --> 00:04:51.079 I believe one of them is my father. I believe 83 00:04:51.319 --> 00:04:54.120 another group is a whole bunch of Los Angeles County 84 00:04:54.120 --> 00:04:57.759 sheriffs and number of them, and also Cliff Checkett, one 85 00:04:57.759 --> 00:05:00.800 of the main homicide detectives that was involved, right from 86 00:05:00.839 --> 00:05:03.720 the very beginning before the grim sleeper was even caught. 87 00:05:05.360 --> 00:05:10.399 Right, Let's talk about the relationship you do have with 88 00:05:11.279 --> 00:05:18.720 Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department and how you first got 89 00:05:18.759 --> 00:05:21.759 access to Lonnie Franklin Junior. First off, tell us why 90 00:05:21.800 --> 00:05:24.120 you were interested in this case, but tell us about 91 00:05:24.120 --> 00:05:26.639 the relationship that you have with some of this the 92 00:05:26.639 --> 00:05:30.120 police department and which is very helpful and you being 93 00:05:30.160 --> 00:05:31.839 able to have the access that you did to be 94 00:05:31.839 --> 00:05:32.800 able to write this book. 95 00:05:33.959 --> 00:05:37.120 Well, my involvement with Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department molded 96 00:05:37.160 --> 00:05:40.160 me to be the person I am today. I started 97 00:05:40.160 --> 00:05:42.519 it when I came to America at nineteen and for 98 00:05:42.639 --> 00:05:45.399 various reasons, because I had a number of stalkers wanted 99 00:05:45.439 --> 00:05:47.319 to get to know a cop. That cop turned into 100 00:05:47.360 --> 00:05:51.000 two to five to ten to the entire West Hollywood 101 00:05:51.040 --> 00:05:54.680 Sheriff station. I was then a civilian volunteer because I 102 00:05:54.680 --> 00:05:57.000 wasn't a citizen of the country, so I was allowed 103 00:05:57.000 --> 00:05:59.040 to be a civilian volunteer, but I wasn't allowed to 104 00:05:59.040 --> 00:06:01.680 train to be an actor Los Angeles County Sheriff. That 105 00:06:01.759 --> 00:06:04.040 came many, many, many years later, when I trained to 106 00:06:04.079 --> 00:06:07.759 be a sheriff. That's my involvement there. So I've worked 107 00:06:07.879 --> 00:06:10.480 with them. I've writ written along obviously on the ground 108 00:06:11.079 --> 00:06:13.519 thousands of times and in the air in the helicopter 109 00:06:13.560 --> 00:06:15.839 as well, and of course been very hand on with 110 00:06:15.959 --> 00:06:18.759 them because of being a civilian volunteer. You learned so 111 00:06:18.879 --> 00:06:21.480 much by being around them every day. So that's what 112 00:06:21.519 --> 00:06:23.560 I did from the age of nineteen twenty twenty one 113 00:06:23.600 --> 00:06:26.800 when I first came to America now two days decades later, 114 00:06:27.279 --> 00:06:31.319 I've always had that involvement, and because of family friends 115 00:06:31.319 --> 00:06:33.680 that were murdered by a mass murderer when I was 116 00:06:33.680 --> 00:06:38.120 eleven years old, I've also always been very interested in 117 00:06:38.160 --> 00:06:41.360 the mind of these heinous murderers, serial killers and mass 118 00:06:41.439 --> 00:06:44.040 murderers because of what happened to me when I was eleven. 119 00:06:44.600 --> 00:06:47.160 So when I was offered to do a documentary back 120 00:06:47.319 --> 00:06:49.000 many years ago, I think it was two thousand and seven, 121 00:06:49.360 --> 00:06:52.720 I jumped at that opportunity and since then I've been 122 00:06:52.759 --> 00:06:55.040 able to get in the mind of various different serial 123 00:06:55.079 --> 00:06:59.600 killers and also helped with different homicide detectives, not just juriffs, 124 00:06:59.639 --> 00:07:04.560 but pd also in Canada. Where you are in Canada, 125 00:07:04.600 --> 00:07:07.319 there was somebody in Winnipeg. They were working with me 126 00:07:07.399 --> 00:07:09.800 getting in the mind of serial killer called Short and 127 00:07:09.879 --> 00:07:13.279 Cameron Lane, Shawn, Cameron Lamb, sorry, Sean Kmer Lamb. So 128 00:07:13.480 --> 00:07:16.399 there's many different avenues of work with law enforcement. That's 129 00:07:16.519 --> 00:07:18.240 just more of a recent one in the last eleven 130 00:07:18.319 --> 00:07:22.279 years has been with homicide detectives helping them close cases. 131 00:07:22.759 --> 00:07:25.000 So I was commissioned for my first book and it's 132 00:07:25.000 --> 00:07:27.439 Snowboards from there, and my most recent book on the 133 00:07:27.439 --> 00:07:30.120 Grim Sleeper came out a couple of months ago in June. 134 00:07:32.480 --> 00:07:34.959 Now, you have to contact serial killers, and you have 135 00:07:35.000 --> 00:07:38.399 a knack for being able to get the information that 136 00:07:38.480 --> 00:07:41.480 no one else has. And as I mentioned just earlier 137 00:07:41.920 --> 00:07:44.920 that this was an exclusive agreement that you were able 138 00:07:45.000 --> 00:07:48.759 to negotiate with Lnnie Franklin Junior so that he wouldn't 139 00:07:48.759 --> 00:07:53.000 speak to anyone else and speak to you exclusively, tell 140 00:07:53.079 --> 00:07:57.720 us absolutely. It's July seventh, twenty ten when you find 141 00:07:57.720 --> 00:08:03.560 out when finally, finally, this person that's been terrorizing Los Angeles, 142 00:08:03.600 --> 00:08:09.160 Lonnie David Franklin Junior, is arrested. Now, from that point, 143 00:08:10.560 --> 00:08:14.720 how do you contact Lonnie Franklin Junior? How do you 144 00:08:14.759 --> 00:08:18.560 approach him to ensure as you have done before that 145 00:08:18.639 --> 00:08:21.480 you've been able to do this, how do you ensure 146 00:08:21.519 --> 00:08:24.720 this time that he will respond and tell us a 147 00:08:24.759 --> 00:08:26.959 little bit give I'll give our audience a little bit 148 00:08:27.000 --> 00:08:30.839 on how you negotiate this with this person. 149 00:08:32.679 --> 00:08:35.000 Well, what happened was I had to wait for him 150 00:08:35.000 --> 00:08:39.799 to be classified. Classified means when inmate is allowed to 151 00:08:39.879 --> 00:08:42.519 have a visitor for the first time. That can be 152 00:08:42.559 --> 00:08:45.159 a process of a week or so or a couple 153 00:08:45.200 --> 00:08:49.879 of months. Because he was charged with being this serial 154 00:08:49.960 --> 00:08:53.720 killer known as the Grim Sleeper, therefore, it took months 155 00:08:53.799 --> 00:08:56.639 for him to be classified from since he's arrest on 156 00:08:56.759 --> 00:08:59.919 July seventh, twenty ten, So it was actually the end 157 00:09:00.000 --> 00:09:03.600 in September. I believed beginning of October when he got classified, 158 00:09:03.879 --> 00:09:06.960 and that when I called up the jail, because I 159 00:09:07.039 --> 00:09:09.120 kept calling every month, I was calling to see when 160 00:09:09.120 --> 00:09:12.159 he was classified. So it was very early on when 161 00:09:12.200 --> 00:09:15.799 he was classified that I went to the jail. I 162 00:09:15.919 --> 00:09:18.960 showed up in the high powered lane, the line where 163 00:09:19.000 --> 00:09:21.799 you stand for about forty five minutes waiting in the 164 00:09:21.840 --> 00:09:24.879 cold or in the heat to get in to see 165 00:09:24.919 --> 00:09:28.559 your inmate. Usually it's a family member. So that's how 166 00:09:28.559 --> 00:09:31.639 it happened. In October twenty ten, I stood in that 167 00:09:31.720 --> 00:09:34.440 line and I waited to go in. Now, what I 168 00:09:34.480 --> 00:09:37.080 had thought was he would have received the letter that 169 00:09:37.200 --> 00:09:40.159 I had sent a week before. So I thought, Okay, 170 00:09:40.159 --> 00:09:43.440 he's going to receive my letter. He knows what I 171 00:09:43.480 --> 00:09:46.200 look like because I always end a headshot. He knows 172 00:09:46.200 --> 00:09:47.759 what I look like, and he knows I'm English, and 173 00:09:47.799 --> 00:09:49.639 I told him about myself, and I taught him I'm 174 00:09:49.639 --> 00:09:53.279 going to visit him. However, because of the high profile 175 00:09:53.320 --> 00:09:56.679 that he is in an ad seig unit, which is, 176 00:09:56.960 --> 00:09:59.799 you know, an administrative segregated from all the other inmates, 177 00:10:00.120 --> 00:10:03.399 his high power, I didn't get to him. Didn't get 178 00:10:03.399 --> 00:10:05.639 to him. It takes about eight weeks, sometimes two or 179 00:10:05.639 --> 00:10:08.039 three months to get to one of these types of inmates. 180 00:10:08.039 --> 00:10:09.679 So actually he didn't have a clue who I was. 181 00:10:10.360 --> 00:10:13.000 So when I went in to the area, there was 182 00:10:13.039 --> 00:10:17.360 about eight cells, not selfs, and eight visiting areas where 183 00:10:17.559 --> 00:10:20.720 you can sit. And there behind class, I was looking 184 00:10:20.919 --> 00:10:22.879 at each of the innates. One was a white guy, 185 00:10:23.000 --> 00:10:25.799 one was Hispanic, another one was Hispanic. One was a 186 00:10:25.799 --> 00:10:28.679 little frail black guy, another one was Hispanic, another one 187 00:10:28.759 --> 00:10:30.919 was Hispanic, another one was Hispanic, and then there was 188 00:10:30.919 --> 00:10:33.120 a white guy. Well, there was only one black guy 189 00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:35.279 out of all the people there. I mean, I'm thinking, 190 00:10:35.639 --> 00:10:38.039 this guy looks quite large on the screen and done 191 00:10:38.159 --> 00:10:40.440 in the papers, so I didn't think it was him. 192 00:10:40.440 --> 00:10:42.120 And I looked back at him, and he was just 193 00:10:42.159 --> 00:10:44.440 shaking his head, you know, because he'd never seen me, 194 00:10:44.600 --> 00:10:47.080 didn't even know who I was, because he didn't get 195 00:10:47.080 --> 00:10:49.799 that letter. He just was expecting his wife to visit him. 196 00:10:49.799 --> 00:10:52.200 I don't believe he thought anyone but his wife would 197 00:10:52.279 --> 00:10:54.960 visit him. And I sat there and I saw his 198 00:10:55.080 --> 00:10:58.440 hand and his hand said Lonnie David Franklin Jr. And 199 00:10:58.480 --> 00:11:01.919 then I realized that that was him. It looks totally different, 200 00:11:01.919 --> 00:11:03.840 but it was him. So I sat with him and 201 00:11:03.840 --> 00:11:05.840 he looked like he's seen a ghost. He leapt back 202 00:11:05.840 --> 00:11:07.799 in his chair and shook his head. I said, no, no, no, 203 00:11:08.320 --> 00:11:11.240 it's okay. I'm for you, and he goes, no, no, no, 204 00:11:11.559 --> 00:11:14.840 because we couldn't the phone lines went up, so then 205 00:11:14.879 --> 00:11:17.279 I said, no, trust me, I am. So it was 206 00:11:17.279 --> 00:11:19.279 a little awkward for the first two minutes, but then 207 00:11:19.279 --> 00:11:22.799 when the phone lines got up, when they started to work, 208 00:11:22.960 --> 00:11:24.919 I said, hey, you know, Nonnie, I'm Victoria. The one 209 00:11:24.919 --> 00:11:28.519 who wrote you the letter. He said what letter? I said, well, 210 00:11:28.559 --> 00:11:30.480 you know, it used to be my mechanic. And of 211 00:11:30.480 --> 00:11:33.519 course I was winking at the time through the screen 212 00:11:33.519 --> 00:11:36.600 because everything's recorded. So I said, you know, you remember 213 00:11:36.720 --> 00:11:38.919 my card always had a problem. See I knew he 214 00:11:39.000 --> 00:11:41.039 was a mechanic, that's all I knew. I said, yeah, 215 00:11:41.159 --> 00:11:43.279 oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah man, oh yeah 216 00:11:43.320 --> 00:11:45.559 yeah I remember, yes, I said, And you used to 217 00:11:45.559 --> 00:11:47.200 always fixed it for free, didn't you. 218 00:11:47.759 --> 00:11:48.399 Yeah? Yeah, yeah. 219 00:11:48.440 --> 00:11:51.559 How's your car doing it? I said always it's sold now, 220 00:11:51.840 --> 00:11:54.320 And we started talking that way, and then I said, oh, 221 00:11:54.360 --> 00:11:56.399 by the way, on a side note, you know what 222 00:11:56.399 --> 00:11:59.519 I'm doing now. I'm writing books on two different kinds 223 00:11:59.519 --> 00:12:03.000 of people, people who are locked up wrongly and charged 224 00:12:03.000 --> 00:12:06.399 with a crime they didn't commit, or I'm writing books 225 00:12:06.440 --> 00:12:10.440 also on serial killers. So you, I'm sure, Lonnie, you're 226 00:12:10.440 --> 00:12:13.159 going to fit into one area, right. And so is 227 00:12:13.159 --> 00:12:15.960 he either innocent or he's going to be convicted when 228 00:12:15.960 --> 00:12:19.279 we get to trial. Almost five years later, and I said, 229 00:12:19.279 --> 00:12:21.039 but listen, how about I write a book on you? 230 00:12:21.120 --> 00:12:23.639 And he just say, oh okay. I said, this is 231 00:12:23.639 --> 00:12:26.279 what I want from you, one hundred percent exclusivity, one 232 00:12:26.360 --> 00:12:29.440 hundred percent. Now our came here every Thursday. I will 233 00:12:29.519 --> 00:12:32.440 make your day. I'm fun of hell, high energy. I'm 234 00:12:32.480 --> 00:12:35.240 definitely going to make you laugh. And I want you 235 00:12:35.279 --> 00:12:37.200 to have your word and I want you to sign it. 236 00:12:37.279 --> 00:12:39.759 So he sent me a letter signing something to give 237 00:12:39.759 --> 00:12:43.919 me his exclusive life story. And because he wasn't convicted yet, 238 00:12:44.279 --> 00:12:46.600 he wasn't going to talk about the crimes. He talked 239 00:12:46.600 --> 00:12:49.639 about everything except the actual crimes. And that's why my 240 00:12:49.639 --> 00:12:52.519 book focused more on his life growing up than the 241 00:12:52.559 --> 00:12:58.039 actual crimes themselves, right, And that's that's how it happened. 242 00:12:59.320 --> 00:13:04.840 That's very interest. You talk about too, that this correspondence 243 00:13:04.879 --> 00:13:10.559 included telephone calls, interviews, like you say, between plexiglass, both 244 00:13:10.679 --> 00:13:15.559 face to face, and also letters, and you say that 245 00:13:15.679 --> 00:13:19.039 your father even join you for a number of these interviews. 246 00:13:19.399 --> 00:13:23.039 Tell us what was the purpose and how did your 247 00:13:23.080 --> 00:13:28.960 father find these How did he find these interviews for 248 00:13:29.080 --> 00:13:29.720 him personally? 249 00:13:29.960 --> 00:13:32.399 Well, my father found them a lot of fun because 250 00:13:32.440 --> 00:13:35.240 again he's because you're not talking about the crimes. What 251 00:13:35.279 --> 00:13:38.759 I've always done is compartmentalize, So my father was getting 252 00:13:38.759 --> 00:13:40.639 to know him on a different level. You know, what 253 00:13:40.679 --> 00:13:44.399 he likes to cook, what sports team. He likes, what 254 00:13:44.440 --> 00:13:46.399 was it like growing up in Los Angeles, because of 255 00:13:46.399 --> 00:13:48.799 course we all grew up in England, so little things 256 00:13:48.840 --> 00:13:50.879 like that was where they had a great banter and 257 00:13:50.919 --> 00:13:53.240 they slapped it. I remember they slapped the screen the 258 00:13:53.279 --> 00:13:55.960 plexiglass when we say goodbye, giving a high five to 259 00:13:56.000 --> 00:13:58.559 each other. So I remember that very well. So yes, 260 00:13:58.639 --> 00:14:01.039 I took my father down. I've taken my parents to 261 00:14:01.080 --> 00:14:03.480 death Row a couple of times. So it's not like 262 00:14:03.519 --> 00:14:05.399 I don't include my parents in my life. I have 263 00:14:05.440 --> 00:14:08.559 an exciting life. Why not share it? So yes I have. 264 00:14:08.639 --> 00:14:11.519 I've done that for the experience and for the fact 265 00:14:11.559 --> 00:14:14.559 that my father was instrumental in the one who said, 266 00:14:14.679 --> 00:14:17.559 why don't you write to that guy the grim Sleeper, 267 00:14:17.919 --> 00:14:21.559 because before he got caught. My very first serial killer 268 00:14:21.600 --> 00:14:23.960 interview was with a man called Wayne adam Ford, and 269 00:14:24.200 --> 00:14:26.159 he I always said that I would stay in touch 270 00:14:26.159 --> 00:14:28.440 with him, and I do. He calls once a month 271 00:14:28.519 --> 00:14:31.080 from death Row, but before then I would visit him 272 00:14:31.120 --> 00:14:33.559 maybe once a year, just to kind of keep him 273 00:14:33.559 --> 00:14:36.879 with him and also work with him on pilots and 274 00:14:36.919 --> 00:14:40.720 TV shows and shows for A and E and Investigation Discovery. Well, 275 00:14:40.759 --> 00:14:42.960 one of the times this is long before twenty ten. 276 00:14:42.960 --> 00:14:44.440 It must have been two thousand and seven or eight 277 00:14:44.799 --> 00:14:47.399 when he was on death row. He said to me, 278 00:14:47.840 --> 00:14:49.639 why don't you go out and try to find the 279 00:14:49.720 --> 00:14:52.200 grim Sleeper. Now I didn't know who that was. This 280 00:14:52.279 --> 00:14:54.440 is long before the arrest. And he said, listen, I'll 281 00:14:54.480 --> 00:14:56.399 give you the demographics. I'll give you the profile of 282 00:14:56.440 --> 00:14:58.639 what I believe he is. And it was Wayne Ford 283 00:14:58.639 --> 00:15:00.600 that told me he's going to be a black guy. 284 00:15:00.600 --> 00:15:03.000 He's going to be African American. He's probably a family man. 285 00:15:03.039 --> 00:15:05.240 He's probably married. I wouldn't be surprised to being married 286 00:15:05.279 --> 00:15:07.519 many years. And he's probably one of those guys that 287 00:15:07.559 --> 00:15:10.000 people like in the neighborhood. Now I'm telling you that 288 00:15:10.120 --> 00:15:12.240 serial killer Wayne Adam Ford hit the nail on the 289 00:15:12.279 --> 00:15:15.720 head dead on yeah, because that's exactly who Lonnie Franklin. 290 00:15:15.720 --> 00:15:18.320 And he's been married almost forty years to Sylvia. He 291 00:15:18.480 --> 00:15:21.679 is a family man to an extent, and he was 292 00:15:21.799 --> 00:15:23.360 very much liked by the neighbors and he was a 293 00:15:23.399 --> 00:15:26.440 fun loving guy. Now the African American part. I asked Wayne, 294 00:15:26.519 --> 00:15:28.960 why do you think he's going to be African Americans? 295 00:15:29.440 --> 00:15:32.759 He said, because we serial killers, we usually stick with 296 00:15:32.840 --> 00:15:35.600 our own race when killing. And I didn't know that 297 00:15:35.960 --> 00:15:38.399 at the time. So actually you do learn from Syria, 298 00:15:38.559 --> 00:15:41.039 you learn from your subject. So yes, I didn't necessarily 299 00:15:41.120 --> 00:15:43.159 go to school to learn about serial killers. I got 300 00:15:43.200 --> 00:15:45.360 it from the horse's mouth. And that's what he said. 301 00:15:45.399 --> 00:15:47.399 He said they stick to their own race. And if 302 00:15:47.399 --> 00:15:50.559 you look at the innocent victims that Lonnie Franklin killed, 303 00:15:50.879 --> 00:15:53.279 every one of them was African African American. 304 00:15:56.960 --> 00:16:00.440 We have covered this case before with Christine Peal Sick 305 00:16:00.919 --> 00:16:03.919 and so, but your take on this is much different. 306 00:16:03.919 --> 00:16:07.679 Like you say, you focus on from his own perspective, 307 00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:10.799 his own words. He has the opportunity to tell you 308 00:16:11.320 --> 00:16:13.919 exactly what happened in his life, and then you speak 309 00:16:13.919 --> 00:16:16.960 to everybody surrounding him that will possibly speak to you, 310 00:16:17.279 --> 00:16:21.679 which is numerous. You have that ability. Right from the 311 00:16:21.799 --> 00:16:25.039 very beginning, you say you're going to have a fun 312 00:16:25.080 --> 00:16:29.679 time with me. He is awaiting trial, so he couldn't 313 00:16:30.039 --> 00:16:33.000 confess anything to you even if he really wanted to, 314 00:16:33.799 --> 00:16:37.159 and the trial would be completely different. And so you 315 00:16:37.200 --> 00:16:41.159 talk about this taking five and a half years. So 316 00:16:41.279 --> 00:16:46.080 right in twenty ten October, you start tell us like 317 00:16:46.159 --> 00:16:49.480 a typical visit, say without your father, tell us what 318 00:16:49.679 --> 00:16:54.279 that's like, what's his demeanor like, what's his intellect like? Actually, 319 00:16:54.879 --> 00:16:58.840 always these serial killers are depicted as almost morons later 320 00:16:59.519 --> 00:17:03.720 at a the sentencing phase in their trial. But tell 321 00:17:03.799 --> 00:17:06.960 us what he was really like at that visit in 322 00:17:07.000 --> 00:17:09.960 his correspondence. What's the tone, what are you guys talking about? 323 00:17:10.119 --> 00:17:11.319 What's he sharing with you? 324 00:17:12.400 --> 00:17:16.000 And how well he would He was a very very 325 00:17:16.039 --> 00:17:19.000 talkative guy. And that doesn't help because I'm also talkative, 326 00:17:19.039 --> 00:17:21.319 so I very rarely got a word in. But he 327 00:17:21.359 --> 00:17:24.400 would be bouncing up and down, he was excited. He 328 00:17:24.400 --> 00:17:26.799 would sit there. He was always looking at people going 329 00:17:26.839 --> 00:17:29.480 around behind me, and I used to say, hello, you know, 330 00:17:29.519 --> 00:17:32.119 like Judge Judy, I put my you know, two fingers 331 00:17:32.119 --> 00:17:34.319 to my eye, look at me. Hello, I'm here with you. 332 00:17:34.400 --> 00:17:36.799 Do you mind? And of course the Sheriff's department very 333 00:17:36.880 --> 00:17:39.279 kindly gave me three times extra time because it you 334 00:17:39.319 --> 00:17:41.799 only get twenty minutes with a high powered inmate. But 335 00:17:41.799 --> 00:17:43.559 they knew me since I was a kid who I 336 00:17:43.559 --> 00:17:46.000 was nineteen, so they gave me three times that so 337 00:17:46.039 --> 00:17:48.000 I always have an hour, full hour with him, which 338 00:17:48.079 --> 00:17:51.359 was very lucky. So anyway, yes, he would be full 339 00:17:51.359 --> 00:17:54.880 of energy. Telling me stories about the other inmates, because 340 00:17:54.880 --> 00:17:56.680 he used to be driven nuts by a guy called 341 00:17:56.720 --> 00:17:59.519 Alex d Silva who was in for rape. In my opinion, 342 00:17:59.559 --> 00:18:01.440 he did not do it at all. Who's as innocent 343 00:18:01.440 --> 00:18:03.480 as the day is long, and he knows that, and 344 00:18:03.519 --> 00:18:05.640 I think now he's out of prison. But the point 345 00:18:05.640 --> 00:18:09.079 being is he just hated this guy, Alex Disilber and 346 00:18:09.160 --> 00:18:11.240 he said, Alex made up so much noise. He wants 347 00:18:11.240 --> 00:18:12.960 to watch movies and I can't get me to sleep 348 00:18:13.000 --> 00:18:15.519 at night. And then there was one of the rappers 349 00:18:15.519 --> 00:18:18.720 that was in with him and another staff from DeBarge 350 00:18:18.759 --> 00:18:21.799 that there was quite a few well known people. Ryan 351 00:18:21.839 --> 00:18:24.400 o'neilson was in as well, so that there's a lot 352 00:18:24.400 --> 00:18:26.880 of people that he would talk about, and then some 353 00:18:27.079 --> 00:18:28.559 that he would also talk about that they didn't know 354 00:18:28.599 --> 00:18:32.720 his name, and so many different things, thinking that they 355 00:18:32.720 --> 00:18:34.200 were a cop that went bad, or that they were 356 00:18:34.240 --> 00:18:36.279 working with the FBI, which actually turned out to be 357 00:18:36.319 --> 00:18:39.599 completely true because years later when the Sheriff's Department Orderan 358 00:18:39.680 --> 00:18:42.799 went to prison, that guy Anthony Brown actually was in 359 00:18:42.839 --> 00:18:45.480 that ad stage unit. So it's the block kind of 360 00:18:45.480 --> 00:18:48.839 thickens there and goes off in different directions. But bringing 361 00:18:48.839 --> 00:18:51.880 it back to your question, it was just he was 362 00:18:51.960 --> 00:18:54.079 very fun and he wanted to talk a lot about that. 363 00:18:54.519 --> 00:18:56.920 I had to try and real him in. I said, listen, Monnie, 364 00:18:57.000 --> 00:18:59.240 I can't hear about all the gossip on your robe, 365 00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:02.599 his selles on a throw. I don't need to hear that. 366 00:19:02.759 --> 00:19:05.440 But if you could just let me know when you 367 00:19:05.480 --> 00:19:08.960 grew up and your brother came from Texas to your 368 00:19:08.960 --> 00:19:11.000 half brother, and how much you loved him, tell me 369 00:19:11.039 --> 00:19:13.599 about those times. And then when I reeled him back in, 370 00:19:13.880 --> 00:19:16.759 he would then let loose tell me all about his brother, 371 00:19:16.920 --> 00:19:19.720 or his sister, or his kids, the illegitimate kid that 372 00:19:19.759 --> 00:19:21.839 he'd had that his wife doesn't know about. So he 373 00:19:21.880 --> 00:19:23.359 would and he would tell me, don't put that in 374 00:19:23.359 --> 00:19:24.960 the book. Oh, but you can put that in the book. 375 00:19:25.480 --> 00:19:27.720 And then it got so late that I don't know 376 00:19:27.720 --> 00:19:29.160 what I put in the book that he didn't want 377 00:19:29.160 --> 00:19:32.319 me to, because there was he was so fast with 378 00:19:32.400 --> 00:19:35.640 his speech and so all over the place that I 379 00:19:35.680 --> 00:19:37.240 hope that I didn't put anything in that he didn't 380 00:19:37.279 --> 00:19:37.640 want me to. 381 00:19:39.759 --> 00:19:44.680 You talk about his early life and somewhat normal upbringing, 382 00:19:44.720 --> 00:19:47.680 but tell us about what he had said about his 383 00:19:47.720 --> 00:19:52.160 life and any events that he tried to I guess 384 00:19:52.559 --> 00:19:55.960 attribute to him going bad at some point. Tell us 385 00:19:56.000 --> 00:19:56.880 about his early life. 386 00:19:58.400 --> 00:20:01.359 His early life, I believe from what he tells me, 387 00:20:02.039 --> 00:20:04.880 it was that he had a very good childhood with 388 00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:08.240 their home life, with his parents, with his grandparents, with 389 00:20:08.359 --> 00:20:11.240 his siblings, his sister. There was it was good. They 390 00:20:11.279 --> 00:20:14.880 weren't fights, nobody was crazy, everything was normal, unlike a 391 00:20:14.920 --> 00:20:20.039 typical serial killer. However, at school he was bullied relentlessly. Now, 392 00:20:20.119 --> 00:20:24.920 in my opinion, that's what molded him. That's what molded him. So, yes, 393 00:20:24.960 --> 00:20:28.799 he was bullied relentlessly because of his size, not just 394 00:20:28.839 --> 00:20:30.720 the fact he's very short, which he is. I believe 395 00:20:30.720 --> 00:20:33.720 it's by six by six five seven maybe, but he 396 00:20:33.759 --> 00:20:37.519 was very fat as a kid, and the bullying didn't stop. 397 00:20:37.559 --> 00:20:40.000 It was everywhere. Any school he was in, any class 398 00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:42.240 he was in, he was made to look like a joke. 399 00:20:42.839 --> 00:20:45.680 I believe that this is what affected him. Because usually 400 00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:48.920 serial killers, they are they are formed, you know, they 401 00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:51.559