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Speaker 5: You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking
Speaker 5: killers in true crime history and the authors that have
Speaker 5: written about them. Gasey Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK Every
Speaker 5: week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and
Speaker 5: infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your
Speaker 5: host journalist and author Dan Zufanski.
Speaker 6: Good Evening. During the mid nineteen eighties, a brutal killing
Speaker 6: spree began in Los Angeles as several women were murdered,
Speaker 6: having been sexually assaulted and shot in the chest with
Speaker 6: the same twenty five caliber gunn The man responsible was
Speaker 6: Lonnie David Franklin Junior. However, his identity wouldn't be revealed
Speaker 6: for more than twenty years, by which time he had
Speaker 6: become one of US America's most prolific serial killers. At
Speaker 6: the time, Los Angeles was a city struggling under the
Speaker 6: weight of racial inequalities in a crack epidemic that was
Speaker 6: sweeping through its most deprived areas. The victims were black
Speaker 6: women and often addicts and sex workers. Many in the
Speaker 6: communities of South Central felt that these factors all caused
Speaker 6: a lack of interest on the part of LAPD in
Speaker 6: investigating the murders, allowing Franklin to carry on his killing
Speaker 6: spree undetected. The book they were featuring, the Sevening is
Speaker 6: The Grim Sleeper Talking with America's most notorious serial killer,
Speaker 6: Lonnie Franklin Junior, with my special guest, journalist and author
Speaker 6: and filmmaker Victoria Redstall. Welcome back to the program, and
Speaker 6: thank you very much for agreeing this interview. Victoria Redstall, Hello,
Speaker 6: thank you for having me. Thank you very much, Welcome
Speaker 6: back to the program. Congratulations on The Grim Sleeper and
Speaker 6: this exclusive interviews with Lonnie Franklin Jr. Which you come
Speaker 6: up with this end product, The Grim Sleeper Talking with
Speaker 6: America's most notorious serial killer. As you do write in
Speaker 6: the book, tell us you mentioned a couple of people
Speaker 6: that you think right off immediately for access to information
Speaker 6: and all the help in putting this incredible book together.
Speaker 6: So as you do tell us the just without much introduction,
Speaker 6: who these people are that you think for this book.
Speaker 2: I believe one of them is my father. I believe
Speaker 2: another group is a whole bunch of Los Angeles County
Speaker 2: sheriffs and number of them, and also Cliff Checkett, one
Speaker 2: of the main homicide detectives that was involved, right from
Speaker 2: the very beginning before the grim sleeper was even caught.
Speaker 6: Right, Let's talk about the relationship you do have with
Speaker 6: Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department and how you first got
Speaker 6: access to Lonnie Franklin Junior. First off, tell us why
Speaker 6: you were interested in this case, but tell us about
Speaker 6: the relationship that you have with some of this the
Speaker 6: police department and which is very helpful and you being
Speaker 6: able to have the access that you did to be
Speaker 6: able to write this book.
Speaker 2: Well, my involvement with Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department molded
Speaker 2: me to be the person I am today. I started
Speaker 2: it when I came to America at nineteen and for
Speaker 2: various reasons, because I had a number of stalkers wanted
Speaker 2: to get to know a cop. That cop turned into
Speaker 2: two to five to ten to the entire West Hollywood
Speaker 2: Sheriff station. I was then a civilian volunteer because I
Speaker 2: wasn't a citizen of the country, so I was allowed
Speaker 2: to be a civilian volunteer, but I wasn't allowed to
Speaker 2: train to be an actor Los Angeles County Sheriff. That
Speaker 2: came many, many, many years later, when I trained to
Speaker 2: be a sheriff. That's my involvement there. So I've worked
Speaker 2: with them. I've writ written along obviously on the ground
Speaker 2: thousands of times and in the air in the helicopter
Speaker 2: as well, and of course been very hand on with
Speaker 2: them because of being a civilian volunteer. You learned so
Speaker 2: much by being around them every day. So that's what
Speaker 2: I did from the age of nineteen twenty twenty one
Speaker 2: when I first came to America now two days decades later,
Speaker 2: I've always had that involvement, and because of family friends
Speaker 2: that were murdered by a mass murderer when I was
Speaker 2: eleven years old, I've also always been very interested in
Speaker 2: the mind of these heinous murderers, serial killers and mass
Speaker 2: murderers because of what happened to me when I was eleven.
Speaker 2: So when I was offered to do a documentary back
Speaker 2: many years ago, I think it was two thousand and seven,
Speaker 2: I jumped at that opportunity and since then I've been
Speaker 2: able to get in the mind of various different serial
Speaker 2: killers and also helped with different homicide detectives, not just juriffs,
Speaker 2: but pd also in Canada. Where you are in Canada,
Speaker 2: there was somebody in Winnipeg. They were working with me
Speaker 2: getting in the mind of serial killer called Short and
Speaker 2: Cameron Lane, Shawn, Cameron Lamb, sorry, Sean Kmer Lamb. So
Speaker 2: there's many different avenues of work with law enforcement. That's
Speaker 2: just more of a recent one in the last eleven
Speaker 2: years has been with homicide detectives helping them close cases.
Speaker 2: So I was commissioned for my first book and it's
Speaker 2: Snowboards from there, and my most recent book on the
Speaker 2: Grim Sleeper came out a couple of months ago in June.
Speaker 6: Now, you have to contact serial killers, and you have
Speaker 6: a knack for being able to get the information that
Speaker 6: no one else has. And as I mentioned just earlier
Speaker 6: that this was an exclusive agreement that you were able
Speaker 6: to negotiate with Lnnie Franklin Junior so that he wouldn't
Speaker 6: speak to anyone else and speak to you exclusively, tell
Speaker 6: us absolutely. It's July seventh, twenty ten when you find
Speaker 6: out when finally, finally, this person that's been terrorizing Los Angeles,
Speaker 6: Lonnie David Franklin Junior, is arrested. Now, from that point,
Speaker 6: how do you contact Lonnie Franklin Junior? How do you
Speaker 6: approach him to ensure as you have done before that
Speaker 6: you've been able to do this, how do you ensure
Speaker 6: this time that he will respond and tell us a
Speaker 6: little bit give I'll give our audience a little bit
Speaker 6: on how you negotiate this with this person.
Speaker 2: Well, what happened was I had to wait for him
Speaker 2: to be classified. Classified means when inmate is allowed to
Speaker 2: have a visitor for the first time. That can be
Speaker 2: a process of a week or so or a couple
Speaker 2: of months. Because he was charged with being this serial
Speaker 2: killer known as the Grim Sleeper, therefore, it took months
Speaker 2: for him to be classified from since he's arrest on
Speaker 2: July seventh, twenty ten, So it was actually the end
Speaker 2: in September. I believed beginning of October when he got classified,
Speaker 2: and that when I called up the jail, because I
Speaker 2: kept calling every month, I was calling to see when
Speaker 2: he was classified. So it was very early on when
Speaker 2: he was classified that I went to the jail. I
Speaker 2: showed up in the high powered lane, the line where
Speaker 2: you stand for about forty five minutes waiting in the
Speaker 2: cold or in the heat to get in to see
Speaker 2: your inmate. Usually it's a family member. So that's how
Speaker 2: it happened. In October twenty ten, I stood in that
Speaker 2: line and I waited to go in. Now, what I
Speaker 2: had thought was he would have received the letter that
Speaker 2: I had sent a week before. So I thought, Okay,
Speaker 2: he's going to receive my letter. He knows what I
Speaker 2: look like because I always end a headshot. He knows
Speaker 2: what I look like, and he knows I'm English, and
Speaker 2: I told him about myself, and I taught him I'm
Speaker 2: going to visit him. However, because of the high profile
Speaker 2: that he is in an ad seig unit, which is,
Speaker 2: you know, an administrative segregated from all the other inmates,
Speaker 2: his high power, I didn't get to him. Didn't get
Speaker 2: to him. It takes about eight weeks, sometimes two or
Speaker 2: three months to get to one of these types of inmates.
Speaker 2: So actually he didn't have a clue who I was.
Speaker 2: So when I went in to the area, there was
Speaker 2: about eight cells, not selfs, and eight visiting areas where
Speaker 2: you can sit. And there behind class, I was looking
Speaker 2: at each of the innates. One was a white guy,
Speaker 2: one was Hispanic, another one was Hispanic. One was a
Speaker 2: little frail black guy, another one was Hispanic, another one
Speaker 2: was Hispanic, another one was Hispanic, and then there was
Speaker 2: a white guy. Well, there was only one black guy
Speaker 2: out of all the people there. I mean, I'm thinking,
Speaker 2: this guy looks quite large on the screen and done
Speaker 2: in the papers, so I didn't think it was him.
Speaker 2: And I looked back at him, and he was just
Speaker 2: shaking his head, you know, because he'd never seen me,
Speaker 2: didn't even know who I was, because he didn't get
Speaker 2: that letter. He just was expecting his wife to visit him.
Speaker 2: I don't believe he thought anyone but his wife would
Speaker 2: visit him. And I sat there and I saw his
Speaker 2: hand and his hand said Lonnie David Franklin Jr. And
Speaker 2: then I realized that that was him. It looks totally different,
Speaker 2: but it was him. So I sat with him and
Speaker 2: he looked like he's seen a ghost. He leapt back
Speaker 2: in his chair and shook his head. I said, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: it's okay. I'm for you, and he goes, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: because we couldn't the phone lines went up, so then
Speaker 2: I said, no, trust me, I am. So it was
Speaker 2: a little awkward for the first two minutes, but then
Speaker 2: when the phone lines got up, when they started to work,
Speaker 2: I said, hey, you know, Nonnie, I'm Victoria. The one
Speaker 2: who wrote you the letter. He said what letter? I said, well,
Speaker 2: you know, it used to be my mechanic. And of
Speaker 2: course I was winking at the time through the screen
Speaker 2: because everything's recorded. So I said, you know, you remember
Speaker 2: my card always had a problem. See I knew he
Speaker 2: was a mechanic, that's all I knew. I said, yeah,
Speaker 2: oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah man, oh yeah
Speaker 2: yeah I remember, yes, I said, And you used to
Speaker 2: always fixed it for free, didn't you.
Speaker 6: Yeah? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: How's your car doing it? I said always it's sold now,
Speaker 2: And we started talking that way, and then I said, oh,
Speaker 2: by the way, on a side note, you know what
Speaker 2: I'm doing now. I'm writing books on two different kinds
Speaker 2: of people, people who are locked up wrongly and charged
Speaker 2: with a crime they didn't commit, or I'm writing books
Speaker 2: also on serial killers. So you, I'm sure, Lonnie, you're
Speaker 2: going to fit into one area, right. And so is
Speaker 2: he either innocent or he's going to be convicted when
Speaker 2: we get to trial. Almost five years later, and I said,
Speaker 2: but listen, how about I write a book on you?
Speaker 2: And he just say, oh okay. I said, this is
Speaker 2: what I want from you, one hundred percent exclusivity, one
Speaker 2: hundred percent. Now our came here every Thursday. I will
Speaker 2: make your day. I'm fun of hell, high energy. I'm
Speaker 2: definitely going to make you laugh. And I want you
Speaker 2: to have your word and I want you to sign it.
Speaker 2: So he sent me a letter signing something to give
Speaker 2: me his exclusive life story. And because he wasn't convicted yet,
Speaker 2: he wasn't going to talk about the crimes. He talked
Speaker 2: about everything except the actual crimes. And that's why my
Speaker 2: book focused more on his life growing up than the
Speaker 2: actual crimes themselves, right, And that's that's how it happened.
Speaker 6: That's very interest. You talk about too, that this correspondence
Speaker 6: included telephone calls, interviews, like you say, between plexiglass, both
Speaker 6: face to face, and also letters, and you say that
Speaker 6: your father even join you for a number of these interviews.
Speaker 6: Tell us what was the purpose and how did your
Speaker 6: father find these How did he find these interviews for
Speaker 6: him personally?
Speaker 2: Well, my father found them a lot of fun because
Speaker 2: again he's because you're not talking about the crimes. What
Speaker 2: I've always done is compartmentalize, So my father was getting
Speaker 2: to know him on a different level. You know, what
Speaker 2: he likes to cook, what sports team. He likes, what
Speaker 2: was it like growing up in Los Angeles, because of
Speaker 2: course we all grew up in England, so little things
Speaker 2: like that was where they had a great banter and
Speaker 2: they slapped it. I remember they slapped the screen the
Speaker 2: plexiglass when we say goodbye, giving a high five to
Speaker 2: each other. So I remember that very well. So yes,
Speaker 2: I took my father down. I've taken my parents to
Speaker 2: death Row a couple of times. So it's not like
Speaker 2: I don't include my parents in my life. I have
Speaker 2: an exciting life. Why not share it? So yes I have.
Speaker 2: I've done that for the experience and for the fact
Speaker 2: that my father was instrumental in the one who said,
Speaker 2: why don't you write to that guy the grim Sleeper,
Speaker 2: because before he got caught. My very first serial killer
Speaker 2: interview was with a man called Wayne adam Ford, and
Speaker 2: he I always said that I would stay in touch
Speaker 2: with him, and I do. He calls once a month
Speaker 2: from death Row, but before then I would visit him
Speaker 2: maybe once a year, just to kind of keep him
Speaker 2: with him and also work with him on pilots and
Speaker 2: TV shows and shows for A and E and Investigation Discovery. Well,
Speaker 2: one of the times this is long before twenty ten.
Speaker 2: It must have been two thousand and seven or eight
Speaker 2: when he was on death row. He said to me,
Speaker 2: why don't you go out and try to find the
Speaker 2: grim Sleeper. Now I didn't know who that was. This
Speaker 2: is long before the arrest. And he said, listen, I'll
Speaker 2: give you the demographics. I'll give you the profile of
Speaker 2: what I believe he is. And it was Wayne Ford
Speaker 2: that told me he's going to be a black guy.
Speaker 2: He's going to be African American. He's probably a family man.
Speaker 2: He's probably married. I wouldn't be surprised to being married
Speaker 2: many years. And he's probably one of those guys that
Speaker 2: people like in the neighborhood. Now I'm telling you that
Speaker 2: serial killer Wayne Adam Ford hit the nail on the
Speaker 2: head dead on yeah, because that's exactly who Lonnie Franklin.
Speaker 2: And he's been married almost forty years to Sylvia. He
Speaker 2: is a family man to an extent, and he was
Speaker 2: very much liked by the neighbors and he was a
Speaker 2: fun loving guy. Now the African American part. I asked Wayne,
Speaker 2: why do you think he's going to be African Americans?
Speaker 2: He said, because we serial killers, we usually stick with
Speaker 2: our own race when killing. And I didn't know that
Speaker 2: at the time. So actually you do learn from Syria,
Speaker 2: you learn from your subject. So yes, I didn't necessarily
Speaker 2: go to school to learn about serial killers. I got
Speaker 2: it from the horse's mouth. And that's what he said.
Speaker 2: He said they stick to their own race. And if
Speaker 2: you look at the innocent victims that Lonnie Franklin killed,
Speaker 2: every one of them was African African American.
Speaker 6: We have covered this case before with Christine Peal Sick
Speaker 6: and so, but your take on this is much different.
Speaker 6: Like you say, you focus on from his own perspective,
Speaker 6: his own words. He has the opportunity to tell you
Speaker 6: exactly what happened in his life, and then you speak
Speaker 6: to everybody surrounding him that will possibly speak to you,
Speaker 6: which is numerous. You have that ability. Right from the
Speaker 6: very beginning, you say you're going to have a fun
Speaker 6: time with me. He is awaiting trial, so he couldn't
Speaker 6: confess anything to you even if he really wanted to,
Speaker 6: and the trial would be completely different. And so you
Speaker 6: talk about this taking five and a half years. So
Speaker 6: right in twenty ten October, you start tell us like
Speaker 6: a typical visit, say without your father, tell us what
Speaker 6: that's like, what's his demeanor like, what's his intellect like? Actually,
Speaker 6: always these serial killers are depicted as almost morons later
Speaker 6: at a the sentencing phase in their trial. But tell
Speaker 6: us what he was really like at that visit in
Speaker 6: his correspondence. What's the tone, what are you guys talking about?
Speaker 6: What's he sharing with you?
Speaker 2: And how well he would He was a very very
Speaker 2: talkative guy. And that doesn't help because I'm also talkative,
Speaker 2: so I very rarely got a word in. But he
Speaker 2: would be bouncing up and down, he was excited. He
Speaker 2: would sit there. He was always looking at people going
Speaker 2: around behind me, and I used to say, hello, you know,
Speaker 2: like Judge Judy, I put my you know, two fingers
Speaker 2: to my eye, look at me. Hello, I'm here with you.
Speaker 2: Do you mind? And of course the Sheriff's department very
Speaker 2: kindly gave me three times extra time because it you
Speaker 2: only get twenty minutes with a high powered inmate. But
Speaker 2: they knew me since I was a kid who I
Speaker 2: was nineteen, so they gave me three times that so
Speaker 2: I always have an hour, full hour with him, which
Speaker 2: was very lucky. So anyway, yes, he would be full
Speaker 2: of energy. Telling me stories about the other inmates, because
Speaker 2: he used to be driven nuts by a guy called
Speaker 2: Alex d Silva who was in for rape. In my opinion,
Speaker 2: he did not do it at all. Who's as innocent
Speaker 2: as the day is long, and he knows that, and
Speaker 2: I think now he's out of prison. But the point
Speaker 2: being is he just hated this guy, Alex Disilber and
Speaker 2: he said, Alex made up so much noise. He wants
Speaker 2: to watch movies and I can't get me to sleep
Speaker 2: at night. And then there was one of the rappers
Speaker 2: that was in with him and another staff from DeBarge
Speaker 2: that there was quite a few well known people. Ryan
Speaker 2: o'neilson was in as well, so that there's a lot
Speaker 2: of people that he would talk about, and then some
Speaker 2: that he would also talk about that they didn't know
Speaker 2: his name, and so many different things, thinking that they
Speaker 2: were a cop that went bad, or that they were
Speaker 2: working with the FBI, which actually turned out to be
Speaker 2: completely true because years later when the Sheriff's Department Orderan
Speaker 2: went to prison, that guy Anthony Brown actually was in
Speaker 2: that ad stage unit. So it's the block kind of
Speaker 2: thickens there and goes off in different directions. But bringing
Speaker 2: it back to your question, it was just he was
Speaker 2: very fun and he wanted to talk a lot about that.
Speaker 2: I had to try and real him in. I said, listen, Monnie,
Speaker 2: I can't hear about all the gossip on your robe,
Speaker 2: his selles on a throw. I don't need to hear that.
Speaker 2: But if you could just let me know when you
Speaker 2: grew up and your brother came from Texas to your
Speaker 2: half brother, and how much you loved him, tell me
Speaker 2: about those times. And then when I reeled him back in,
Speaker 2: he would then let loose tell me all about his brother,
Speaker 2: or his sister, or his kids, the illegitimate kid that
Speaker 2: he'd had that his wife doesn't know about. So he
Speaker 2: would and he would tell me, don't put that in
Speaker 2: the book. Oh, but you can put that in the book.
Speaker 2: And then it got so late that I don't know
Speaker 2: what I put in the book that he didn't want
Speaker 2: me to, because there was he was so fast with
Speaker 2: his speech and so all over the place that I
Speaker 2: hope that I didn't put anything in that he didn't
Speaker 2: want me to.
Speaker 6: You talk about his early life and somewhat normal upbringing,
Speaker 6: but tell us about what he had said about his
Speaker 6: life and any events that he tried to I guess
Speaker 6: attribute to him going bad at some point. Tell us
Speaker 6: about his early life.
Speaker 2: His early life, I believe from what he tells me,
Speaker 2: it was that he had a very good childhood with
Speaker 2: their home life, with his parents, with his grandparents, with
Speaker 2: his siblings, his sister. There was it was good. They
Speaker 2: weren't fights, nobody was crazy, everything was normal, unlike a
Speaker 2: typical serial killer. However, at school he was bullied relentlessly. Now,
Speaker 2: in my opinion, that's what molded him. That's what molded him. So, yes,
Speaker 2: he was bullied relentlessly because of his size, not just
Speaker 2: the fact he's very short, which he is. I believe
Speaker 2: it's by six by six five seven maybe, but he
Speaker 2: was very fat as a kid, and the bullying didn't stop.
Speaker 2: It was everywhere. Any school he was in, any class
Speaker 2: he was in, he was made to look like a joke.
Speaker 2: I believe that this is what affected him. Because usually
Speaker 2: serial killers, they are they are formed, you know, they
Speaker 2: are not necessarily born as serial killer. They are formed
Speaker 2: with a lethal cocktail. And usually it's abuse of the
Speaker 2: parents or siblings. Abuse, whether it be sexual or physical, abandonment,
Speaker 2: all of this is that's what he didn't have, but
Speaker 2: he had such abuse from his schoolmates, his peers. That's
Speaker 2: what I think, more than his life and being short
Speaker 2: and being fat, I believe he wanted to have power
Speaker 2: over people, as serial killers do. They want that sense
Speaker 2: of ultimate power, and that's at the hands of them
Speaker 2: them to kill someone and see the life being robbed
Speaker 2: from them. So that made him feel powerful killing these
Speaker 2: innocent victims.
Speaker 6: You talk about his stint in the army. Tell us
Speaker 6: about that stint.
Speaker 2: Oh, gosh, the stint in the army. He liked the
Speaker 2: army a lot. I mean, that's what he wanted to
Speaker 2: do and took that bus and ended up in the army.
Speaker 2: He liked Germany, but he's always liked black females. He's
Speaker 2: not attracted to white females. He tried that once in
Speaker 2: Germany and it wasn't for him. But later I find
Speaker 2: out that it was the woman he had sex with
Speaker 2: that he said was a whole because she was loose,
Speaker 2: the woman that she had sex with, apparently this was
Speaker 2: a gang rape. It came out in trial she actually
Speaker 2: was flown over from Germany, so he would twist the
Speaker 2: story making it look like he'd had sex with this
Speaker 2: German girl when really he raped them, raped her with
Speaker 2: two other men and ended up in I believe in
Speaker 2: some kind of prison or short time in jail, but
Speaker 2: was thrown out of the army because of that ordeal.
Speaker 2: But so yes, he would take drugs from one area
Speaker 2: to another area of Germany when he was stationed out
Speaker 2: in Germany. He never took drugs himself, according to him,
Speaker 2: and I kind of believe him because his way of
Speaker 2: getting women, and later in life proved that with the
Speaker 2: women that he did kill was to actually get the
Speaker 2: drugs for them, and that was another way of getting
Speaker 2: them in his grasp, whether to have sex with them,
Speaker 2: whether to have sex with them and kill them or
Speaker 2: whatever he was trying to do. So yes, he had
Speaker 2: a good time in Germany and one experience with that
Speaker 2: white female and the rest were with black females.
Speaker 6: You talk about too, that he started his criminal career
Speaker 6: as a thief stolen vehicles and other possession of stolen property.
Speaker 6: But oddly there is no talk of violence among friends, family, girlfriends,
Speaker 6: and employees anything like that. There really isn't any talk
Speaker 6: of that, is there.
Speaker 2: No, there's not. There was one incident, there was, maybe
Speaker 2: there was two incidents. He was not a violent man,
Speaker 2: but there were two incidences with two different kinds of women,
Speaker 2: and one I believe was in self defense because he
Speaker 2: had a woman for a very very short time. She
Speaker 2: was again very loose. As he explained to me, he
Speaker 2: got injuring theo bed very quickly and obviously had no
Speaker 2: respect for her because of that. But this is going
Speaker 2: back decades and decades. And then what happened was she
Speaker 2: was in a fight with him and started to hit him. Well,
Speaker 2: he didn't like that, and then he hit her across
Speaker 2: the face in defense of himself. That caused her to
Speaker 2: have severe bruising on the face. So he pretended to
Speaker 2: stay with her for a few few days longer till
Speaker 2: the bruising went down because he didn't want her to
Speaker 2: leave the house or I don't know whose house. I
Speaker 2: think it was her house. He didn't want her to
Speaker 2: go out looking like that and him getting into trouble.
Speaker 2: That was one incident where he was violent. There was
Speaker 2: a second incident when he was a kid. There was
Speaker 2: a fight that he had to break up, and that
Speaker 2: was I think between two girls. He got in and
Speaker 2: ended up protecting one girl against the other. I big
Speaker 2: I wrote that in my book. It's been such a long,
Speaker 2: intense case that some of the facts that I have
Speaker 2: written that our Faxel told to me back then as
Speaker 2: facts have slipped my mind. But I believe there's only
Speaker 2: been two incidences. I asked him, I said, have you
Speaker 2: ever hit Sylvia? Sylvia his his wife, And he said, oh, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: never in a million years. He said, she would throw
Speaker 2: knives at me. She would throw knives at me if
Speaker 2: I ever tried to lay a hand on her. So
Speaker 2: he led me to believe, according to him, that his
Speaker 2: wife was the one who maybe had a little tendency
Speaker 2: to go towards violence, and not him. I don't believe
Speaker 2: he was violent to women or to men. I don't
Speaker 2: I think that's in him, But I do believe that
Speaker 2: he had different A lot of serracillers aren't violent, So
Speaker 2: that's what's such a dichotomy of what I'm saying here.
Speaker 2: They may not be violent with anyone. Look at the
Speaker 2: Green Ripper killer, Gary Ridgeway. He was married for eighteen
Speaker 2: nineteen years to Judas Ridgeway, and he killed seventy two prostitutes.
Speaker 2: I mean, the mind boggles, and he strangdled them. He
Speaker 2: never laid a hand on Judis because Judith told me,
Speaker 2: and he never raised his voice to her. And they
Speaker 2: bred puppies. So actually a lot of serrakillers, and I
Speaker 2: would say the majority of the ones I've met have
Speaker 2: never been violent, but yet they will be violent for
Speaker 2: those types of females, usually that are of a certain
Speaker 2: type of female. They're the ones that they want to kill.
Speaker 2: They will be as violent and as horristic to them
Speaker 2: that you can imagine.
Speaker 6: You talk about Lannie leaving the army in nineteen seventy five,
Speaker 6: he was, like you say, kicked out of the army
Speaker 6: basically for that gang rape that he was did less
Speaker 6: than a year in prison for. After five years in
Speaker 6: the army, he was twenty four years old, and he
Speaker 6: returned to California September seventy six, and that's talk about
Speaker 6: he fell in love with Sylvia, his later wife he
Speaker 6: talked about. They were married in seventy seven. They were
Speaker 6: married for thirty nine years and they had a daughter.
Speaker 6: But he continued after he met her. She tolerated his antics,
Speaker 6: his affairs, and his criminality during that time. During that relationship,
Speaker 6: and there was a garage that Lonnie had He told
Speaker 6: her to stay out of that garage, didn't.
Speaker 2: He Yeah, I think there were three garages, Yes, there were,
Speaker 2: and he told us to stay out. I mean, she
Speaker 2: did as she was told. And plus I don't think
Speaker 2: anyone would want to go in. It was like a
Speaker 2: pack rat. There was hardly any space to move in
Speaker 2: his garages. That's where he kept everything. I think he
Speaker 2: kept the porn videos. He kept videos of himself with
Speaker 2: these prostitutes. He kept the photographs that he took, the
Speaker 2: polaroids I mean that are assumed to be dead at
Speaker 2: his hands, but some of were never found and some
Speaker 2: were found. And of course the nature wrote Washington. Thank
Speaker 2: god she lived to tell the tale. And it was
Speaker 2: how herloid picture in the garage as well. So there
Speaker 2: was a lot in that garage that she wasn't allowed
Speaker 2: to go in. But I don't know that.
Speaker 4: To talk about the.
Speaker 6: Affairs, right, getting back to your correspondence, he has been arrested.
Speaker 6: Then we will talk about Henrietta and being the star
Speaker 6: witness and being a survivor and everything revolves surrounding that.
Speaker 6: But let's talk more about how long this trial was
Speaker 6: delayed for. We mentioned it and why and in that
Speaker 6: ensuing time you say you regularly visited him, had phone
Speaker 6: calls and had correspondence. If you're not going to talk
Speaker 6: about the upcoming trial and his guilt or innocence, then
Speaker 6: and he's talking about his family, what was that like?
Speaker 6: Again you talk about him being distracted in going off
Speaker 6: on tangents, but that's a long time to be corresponding
Speaker 6: with someone. Tell us about that long detailed correspondence and
Speaker 6: what was a characterized.
Speaker 2: By Oh, I didn't once I had done the book,
Speaker 2: I had no reason to go back to the jail.
Speaker 2: And I believe his defense asked me not to go
Speaker 2: back or told me I couldn't go back to the jail,
Speaker 2: which is what left so many unanswered questions in my book.
Speaker 2: So there was a lady that she was like this
Speaker 2: Bard for a while, but she was the original defense
Speaker 2: attorney for Loni Franklin, I think anyway was what was
Speaker 2: it Christine? She was out of Sherman Oaks anyway, it
Speaker 2: doesn't matter. But whoever took over from her was a
Speaker 2: raising ludatic and that is why the trial was delayed
Speaker 2: so long. And I'll tell you all about that guy
Speaker 2: in a moment. But the trial I actually visited him
Speaker 2: from the October twenty ten, probably for just a year,
Speaker 2: just over a year, and then it was a perfect
Speaker 2: timing because when I got banned, I didn't really need
Speaker 2: any more solid information from Lonnie Franklin. And it wasn't
Speaker 2: come from the Sheriff's department because they wouldn't have banned me.
Speaker 2: It was from the defense lawyers that asked the Sheriff's
Speaker 2: department to not let me in to see him. So
Speaker 2: what happened was I had just the end of the book,
Speaker 2: were the questions that I had from the beginning, and
Speaker 2: those weren't answered, and that's the problem. So I didn't
Speaker 2: have more than a year, year and a half of
Speaker 2: visits with him and phone calls and a lot of it.
Speaker 2: Nearing the trial, we talked about it because he was
Speaker 2: still on the papers years before he came to trial,
Speaker 2: and he was in the paper he was accused of
Speaker 2: possibly killing one hundred and eighty females because when they
Speaker 2: did a search warrant, the LPD did the search warrant
Speaker 2: in his home, they took out all the photographs and
Speaker 2: not just the ones from the garage, which were the
Speaker 2: ones from the possible victims, but the ones from the
Speaker 2: photo albums where he actually himself was in the picture,
Speaker 2: but apparently LPD tore him out and put the pictures up.
Speaker 2: And I understand Bede's point. They are doing it to
Speaker 2: see did he kill people he knew? Did he kill
Speaker 2: family members? Their hands were I hate to say, tied,
Speaker 2: but they didn't know what they were looking for. They,
Speaker 2: like you, did a fabulous job of finding him and
Speaker 2: looking for him, and they had a task force as well,
Speaker 2: with a huge amount of officers on board. But I
Speaker 2: believe they just took every female picture in his home
Speaker 2: when I don't believe it was one hundred and eighty,
Speaker 2: but who knew back then when they rested in twenty ten,
Speaker 2: when he's been killing for three decades, you know, the
Speaker 2: number is just probably astronomical. And I believe that. I
Speaker 2: think he was convicted of ten or eleven, but I
Speaker 2: know for a fact it's way more than that because
Speaker 2: some of these souls were never found.
Speaker 6: Right. You also talk about the the Los Angeles and
Speaker 6: surrounding areas, and also the definition of people don't know
Speaker 6: what a strawberry is as opposed to a regular I
Speaker 6: guess yu here regular victim, So tell us a little
Speaker 6: bit about what what the state was at that time
Speaker 6: that contributed to these people being in this ultra vulnerable position.
Speaker 2: For line, Yeah, that's what's so sad. These women didn't
Speaker 2: choose a life to go into the sex working business. However,
Speaker 2: I believe that by being addicted to drugs, which any
Speaker 2: of us could be addicted to a drug and it
Speaker 2: just takes hold of you. I believe that with the
Speaker 2: addiction came the desperate need for money, and the desperate
Speaker 2: need for money, how do you do that quickly? I
Speaker 2: will assume that's what happened, because every one of these
Speaker 2: victims had drugs in their system, So that leads you
Speaker 2: to believe that they were on drugs at the time
Speaker 2: and probably had an addiction problem. So a strawberry, from
Speaker 2: what I believe, is a female that doesn't take money
Speaker 2: for sex. They take drugs for sex. And that's what
Speaker 2: the strawberry is. And that was the name made up
Speaker 2: in South central LA in the eighties because of the
Speaker 2: crack epidemic, and that's what Franklin did. He'd actually get
Speaker 2: the drugs for these women. So it wasn't necessarily money
Speaker 2: was exchanged, it was more so drugs were exchanged.
Speaker 6: Later on in the book, you talk about detective challenging
Speaker 6: him and saying, listen, this is the evidence we have
Speaker 6: against We have the DNA evidence, and you go cruise
Speaker 6: this avenue here and you're trying to pick up women
Speaker 6: every night. What was the demeanor on the strip with him?
Speaker 6: We see lots of people that are good with their families,
Speaker 6: But what was Lonnie's reputation among the women and the
Speaker 6: people out on these streets at that time. Did he
Speaker 6: fool them? Were they aware of his propensity for violence
Speaker 6: or what was the How did they view him?
Speaker 2: They did not feel that he was a violent man,
Speaker 2: and they fooled. He fooled everybody, everybody, neighbors, family members,
Speaker 2: the women on the street, everybody he fooled. There were
Speaker 2: there were prostitutes that he knew, his friends that he
Speaker 2: never killed. I mean, he just had the misfriends. I
Speaker 2: don't know what it was where he would pick some
Speaker 2: women over others, don't quite know. But he had friends
Speaker 2: who were females, so those females would vouch for him.
Speaker 2: It was a shock to a lot of those females
Speaker 2: on the street, and he'd have them over at his
Speaker 2: home and then I think he let some of them go.
Speaker 2: I don't know what the reason was, but some of
Speaker 2: them he never was violent with them. If he was
Speaker 2: violent with a woman, he killed.
Speaker 6: Them one thing. And then I think we're just jumping
Speaker 6: a little bit ahead. But I want to mention this
Speaker 6: at this point because I think this is a very
Speaker 6: important point. A little bit later on, when somebody tries
Speaker 6: to ask the question, why why did someone like this
Speaker 6: turn into this kind of person? And why did he
Speaker 6: let so many women go and just some he had
Speaker 6: to kill he felt the need to kill? What was it?
Speaker 6: And we go back there?
Speaker 2: Maybe?
Speaker 6: Sorry, sorry, well we go back to Germany. You mentioned
Speaker 6: in the book. You talk about in the book that
Speaker 6: the woman that was gang raped, to show his mentality
Speaker 6: at that time a young man in Germany, she lured
Speaker 6: him back after that gang rape the next day on
Speaker 6: some premise of a date, and that facilitated the police
Speaker 6: being able to make the rest and then convict the
Speaker 6: other two members of this little gang rape here. But
Speaker 6: it showed how naive he was, how cunning she was,
Speaker 6: and determined she was. But again I thought we'd mentioned
Speaker 6: that because we explained a little bit later what you
Speaker 6: find out on what people conclude is that we come
Speaker 6: back to that very important event that he was did
Speaker 6: barely even a year, and it seems like no one
Speaker 6: knew till much much later in time. Let's use this
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Speaker 6: we were talking about Lonnie Franklin Jr. And we were
Speaker 6: mentioning his life, how he had fooled everyone, and we
Speaker 6: were talking about this very, very important person in this
Speaker 6: entire story. This Aneitra Washington, and this is November twentieth,
Speaker 6: nineteen eighty eight. Tell us what she recalls for the police.
Speaker 6: Tell us about her ordeal, what happens that day, how
Speaker 6: she comes to bump into Lonnie Franklin Junior, how he
Speaker 6: convinces her to come with him in the vehicle, and
Speaker 6: how it comes to be that he tries to kill her,
Speaker 6: and how does he do that?
Speaker 2: Anita Washington, she was so instrumental in the entire case
Speaker 2: and getting him convicted. She was amazing. I believe she
Speaker 2: was walking on the street to eight party. She think
Speaker 2: she was going to a party in that area and
Speaker 2: she saw an orange Pinto and she loved cars, and
Speaker 2: she looked at the car, not him. And of course
Speaker 2: I wasn't there so many decades ago, so I'm just
Speaker 2: relaying what I can remember from the trials and what
Speaker 2: she said to me personally, which is when I went there,
Speaker 2: so didn't quite interview her, but I did here to
Speaker 2: speak to him, and she saw this Pinto looking at it.
Speaker 2: He got to out of the car and said you
Speaker 2: want to ride, and she said no, And then he
Speaker 2: asked again and she said no. She didn't want to
Speaker 2: get in the car. She just wanted to look at it.
Speaker 2: And I think the third time he asked if she
Speaker 2: wanted to ride, and she said. He said to her,
Speaker 2: black women like you that have got an attitude. He
Speaker 2: implied that she had an attitude, and she didn't like that,
Speaker 2: and she wanted to prove to him that she's not
Speaker 2: that way, So she got in the car. What did
Speaker 2: she have to lose at that time, she thought she
Speaker 2: had nothing to lose, and she said that she'd go
Speaker 2: you can come to the party something like that. So
Speaker 2: she told him the address of the party. And the
Speaker 2: only reason, according to anitra, why she got in the
Speaker 2: car was to just prove him wrong that black women
Speaker 2: don't have attitudes or don't have attitudes, not enough to
Speaker 2: get in the car. She just doesn't like short guys,
Speaker 2: and Lonie Franklin is short, so why would she get
Speaker 2: in the car. It was It was a little bit vague,
Speaker 2: but point being is, on the third attempt, she got
Speaker 2: in the car and gave the address, and he stopped
Speaker 2: off of a house on the way. I think I
Speaker 2: personally believe it was his own house because he'd forgotten
Speaker 2: the gun, so I think he went back to his
Speaker 2: own house to get the gun. And he got back
Speaker 2: in the car, and that's when she realized that she's
Speaker 2: driving nowhere near where the house was that she wanted
Speaker 2: to get to, and he kept driving on different streets,
Speaker 2: and at that moment, when she was challenging him, he
Speaker 2: pulled out the gun and shut her at point blank
Speaker 2: range with Adria the tray two caliber the twenty twoh
Speaker 2: cliber pistol, and I hit him right in the chest.
Speaker 2: I mean, she was minutes from dying. She was then
Speaker 2: thrown right out of the car onto the street, onto
Speaker 2: the pavement, and she was just crawling, pulling herself along
Speaker 2: the park cars along the side, just to get to
Speaker 2: her friend's house. Thank god. Her friends, I think it
Speaker 2: was one of her best friends lived very close by,
Speaker 2: and the friend was out and didn't come home till,
Speaker 2: thank god, minutes later to see her friend Anitra lying
Speaker 2: on her porch, pouring with blood, going in and out
Speaker 2: of consciousness. I mean, she thought she was going to
Speaker 2: die and going back. So when she was in the
Speaker 2: car and she'd been shot and she was going in
Speaker 2: and out of consciousness, she remembers saying that I will
Speaker 2: haunt you if I die. If you have killed me,
Speaker 2: I will haunt you for the rest of your life.
Speaker 2: So that was a plan if she was going to
Speaker 2: miss her life that day. And then she remembered, and
Speaker 2: she recounted all of what was in his car, and
Speaker 2: I believe there was stuff for kids in the car. Well,
Speaker 2: of course Christopher and Chrystopher were kids at the time.
Speaker 2: That's his son and daughter, so it would make sense
Speaker 2: everything fits this pinto and all about the car. And
Speaker 2: I mean, she was so profound where she came across
Speaker 2: so strong and articulate that I believe she's and well,
Speaker 2: of course LAPD they solved the whole thing that they
Speaker 2: got him convicted on ballistics, of course, DNA ballistics and
Speaker 2: her testimony. I witnessed testimony birth hand.
Speaker 6: Before we got to that point, though police got to
Speaker 6: that point. She gave a good description and they felt
Speaker 6: it would be a good description of him and that vehicle.
Speaker 6: That's what she gave to police. But police do not
Speaker 6: make an arrest as a result of that. Do they discontinues?
Speaker 2: No, they don't. Yeah, now at some point, so sorry,
Speaker 2: it did a delay on the phone. I think that
Speaker 2: there was about a month or two that went by
Speaker 2: and he she said that he went by her home
Speaker 2: and said, do I know you something about do I
Speaker 2: know you? I don't know how that happened, but she
Speaker 2: knows it was him that did that. And I think
Speaker 2: that she had said that that was because he wanted
Speaker 2: to make sure that she didn't remember who he was.
Speaker 2: But that stuck out in her mind. There wasn't enough
Speaker 2: to arrest him on because I don't think they knew
Speaker 2: and the cops didn't know anyone with the pencil at
Speaker 2: the time. I don't know about that. See, that's very
Speaker 2: vague to me. It was vague in the trial as well.
Speaker 6: You talk about it at the same time, amazingly and
Speaker 6: horrifyingly that at the same time that the grim Sleeper
Speaker 6: is operating in Los Angeles, in the same area, there's
Speaker 6: another serial killer called the South Side Slayer, Chester Turner.
Speaker 6: You talk a little bit about that, just in that
Speaker 6: for a while, they didn't realize what they had in
Speaker 6: terms of serial killers, did they.
Speaker 2: No, they didn't. I actually interviewed him countless times as well.
Speaker 2: Chester Turner was the South Side Slayer. He wasn't killing
Speaker 2: he was killing the same types of people, women that
Speaker 2: worked on the streets, sex workers, people who are drug addicts.
Speaker 2: He would kill the exact same type, but in a
Speaker 2: totally different way. So it was plainly obvious to the
Speaker 2: law enforcement that they were looking for two different guys,
Speaker 2: one who killed with a small hang on and the
Speaker 2: other one who killed with his bare hands. Now, Chester
Speaker 2: Turner is a three hundred and fifty pounds retired gangmen,
Speaker 2: but he calls himself an og in Ol gangster, and
Speaker 2: with a scar across his face, he could snap anybody's
Speaker 2: neck in a minute. So, but Lonie Franklin is very frail,
Speaker 2: seven of a guy. Hence he used a gun because
Speaker 2: I didn't know he couldn't use his hands. I think
Speaker 2: he tried to strangle one of them once and it
Speaker 2: didn't work, so he shot her. So that was his
Speaker 2: m O. That was the way he killed them. So
Speaker 2: they the cups knew just for them that there were
Speaker 2: two different guys that were looking for You.
Speaker 6: Talk about too that along the way the police are
Speaker 6: looking for good suspects, and at least what they thought
Speaker 6: was a good suspect. Out came a Los Angeles County
Speaker 6: Sheriff Department deputy, Ricky Ross. Why was Ricky Ross initially
Speaker 6: a good suspect? Obviously he wasn't the culprit, But why
Speaker 6: was he a good suspect?
Speaker 2: Ricky Ross was a known well, I hate to say,
Speaker 2: the bad apple, the one bad apple in the shirt's department.
Speaker 2: He was known to frequent prostitution and prostitutes, and I
Speaker 2: think he was accused of and charged with taking drugs.
Speaker 2: So he fit the demographic of somebody who could possibly
Speaker 2: take a life of one of the prostitutes that he frequented.
Speaker 2: So yes, they got the wrong guy, but he did
Speaker 2: try to sue the department, and I don't believe you won.
Speaker 2: I don't believe you won. But he was sunny, a
Speaker 2: coup that went bad, but certainly not the killer.
Speaker 6: Yeah, you say he was fired, but he sued for
Speaker 6: four hundred million, But they say, you say the case
Speaker 6: was settled out of court. Yes, at some point you
Speaker 6: talk about and we didn't mention a brother. That's it's
Speaker 6: like a distant brother of Franklin because he didn't grow
Speaker 6: up with him per se. That's Christopher Franklin. But the
Speaker 6: police are looking and people will understand this from the
Speaker 6: zodiac and that, pardon me, the East Area rapist, Golden
Speaker 6: State killer case. If they're are familiar with this term,
Speaker 6: familiar familial DNA analysis, So please start to look at
Speaker 6: that technique of DNA analysis and take a look if
Speaker 6: that would work in their search for the Graham Sleeper.
Speaker 6: So tell us what that how they do that, and
Speaker 6: of course we know the result.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a fantastic invention. I mean, this is a
Speaker 2: very new thing, Like DNA was very new decades ago,
Speaker 2: but this was very very new, and they experimented. I
Speaker 2: believe this was the first case, which was a hit.
Speaker 2: And because his son, Christopher Franklin, who is a convicted felon,
Speaker 2: he had many gun charges and drug charges on him,
Speaker 2: he was in the system. His DNA was in the system.
Speaker 2: So what happened in I think early two thousands, that
Speaker 2: was when his DNA was taken, but when before Lone
Speaker 2: Franklin got arrested, so it must have been near to
Speaker 2: two thousand and nine twenty ten. They found that the
Speaker 2: DNA that they had on all of these bodies, the
Speaker 2: same DNA was a not a direct match to that
Speaker 2: was what was in their system, but it was a
Speaker 2: familial match. The DNA was a familial match, and that's
Speaker 2: when they realized it has to be a family man
Speaker 2: of Christopher Franklin. And from what I believe, I believe
Speaker 2: they went and looked for the uncle first, that's Christopher
Speaker 2: Franklin's uncle, so Lonie Franklin's brother. He lived out the
Speaker 2: Inland Empire, I believe Rancho Cook amonga someone like that,
Speaker 2: and they were looking at him. But he realized that
Speaker 2: the crimes were in a four mile radius of south
Speaker 2: central why would he come all the way each time
Speaker 2: out there? And then then they realized or the brother,
Speaker 2: which is the actual father of Christopher Franklin, why didn't
Speaker 2: they look for him or look at him? And they did,
Speaker 2: and they followed him. And it was in that fateful
Speaker 2: day in early July that they followed him to a
Speaker 2: pizza restaurant and the crops were brilliant. I mean, they
Speaker 2: dressed up as bus boys. They had a tray to
Speaker 2: collect everything that he would discard or after he didn't
Speaker 2: eat it, and that was a piece of pizza with
Speaker 2: the cheese on it. And I believe that the DNA
Speaker 2: was taken from the cheese of the pizza crust that
Speaker 2: was left on the plate, along with a napkin, and
Speaker 2: along with a glass of water, and all of that
Speaker 2: was put on a tray and taken as evidence. And
Speaker 2: of course, the lunatic defense guy, the defense attorney, was
Speaker 2: saying that it was illegally got hold of, which I
Speaker 2: mean everything fell through. I mean, it wasn't illegally got
Speaker 2: hold of. And that's what's one of his attempts to
Speaker 2: stole the case and make it, you know, have a
Speaker 2: hung jury or something like that. But it didn't. So
Speaker 2: that's what they did. They found it and then they
Speaker 2: got the such one. I think it was July seventh,
Speaker 2: and they went in and it took them three days
Speaker 2: to get all the evidence. They had a huge Kamando
Speaker 2: set out as well.
Speaker 6: You talk about that they looked at this garage that
Speaker 6: was off limits to his wife, Sylvia, and in there
Speaker 6: were the things like not only were their identification some
Speaker 6: pieces of things belonging to the victims, but there was
Speaker 6: also people that they never did find. So there was
Speaker 6: further suspects as a result of what they found in
Speaker 6: that garage. Isn't that true?
Speaker 2: You mean fed a suspect a fet of victims.
Speaker 6: While you say you talk about that there was some
Speaker 6: identification found from people that weren't directly linked at first,
Speaker 6: but then as a result of this were they were
Speaker 6: suspected victims because there was no bodies found.
Speaker 2: I think so, yes, I think you said suspects, no victims. Yes,
Speaker 2: I believe there's a lot more victims. And in the
Speaker 2: eighties he was a garbage collector, and he was a
Speaker 2: garbage collector in a one man vehicle. They changed that
Speaker 2: and then now it's always a two man vehicle in
Speaker 2: the garbage truck. But there was a one man vehicle
Speaker 2: for a long while, and if you remember, he discarded
Speaker 2: all of his victims in alleyways as trash. So this
Speaker 2: is what I think. The victims that were not found,
Speaker 2: or the identifications and photographs in the garage of the
Speaker 2: people that were never identified and never found. I believe
Speaker 2: that because he knew where he discarded them, the next
Speaker 2: morning he could do his normal truck routes, garbage truck route,
Speaker 2: picking up the bodies that he'd killed that night before
Speaker 2: and take them to the dump and then they were
Speaker 2: never again. But after a number of years it went
Speaker 2: to a two men truck. But I believe that the
Speaker 2: name the grim Sleeper was when he was apparently lying
Speaker 2: dormant for fourteen years. I don't believe he was. I
Speaker 2: think he was killing the entire time, but the bodies
Speaker 2: were not discovered because he was in a one man truck.
Speaker 2: And now that never came out in trial. That is
Speaker 2: just my opinion. But a one man truck, you can
Speaker 2: get away with murders. He excuse a pun but you
Speaker 2: can really get away with anything.
Speaker 6: Well, there was the evidence too. You say they was
Speaker 6: left in alleyways, but there was also left in dumpsters
Speaker 6: covered in trash. So there was at least that some
Speaker 6: inkling that he had the ability to do that. And
Speaker 6: as you say, as a sanitation guide, I mean it's
Speaker 6: a common way for killers to dispose of bodies. So yes, yeah,
Speaker 6: it's not a big stretch.
Speaker 2: It does not a big stre No, not at all.
Speaker 6: Sadly, No, you talked about Detective Dupree and you had
Speaker 6: a good relationship with rapport with him, and he's a
Speaker 6: heroic figure in this if there is anyone at all
Speaker 6: or a very solid upstanding figure in this, Detective Dupree,
Speaker 6: when you talk to him, what does he estimate in
Speaker 6: terms of there's ten he was convicted of ten and
Speaker 6: then the attempted murder of Enrietta Washington? What does he
Speaker 6: think that tally is likely at?
Speaker 2: He knows that they're a countless more, But I never
Speaker 2: asked him at this specific number that he thinks. But
Speaker 2: there's no way it would have been just ten. That's impossible.
Speaker 2: I don't think anyone would think that. So definitely a
Speaker 2: lot more. And yeah, he's a fabulous homicide detective. He
Speaker 2: took this to heart. He was amazing with everybody, not
Speaker 2: just me, everybody, and he treats everybody the same any
Speaker 2: walk of line. He's a very very likable man. I
Speaker 2: mean Detective Cocoine and Cota and Appels and all the
Speaker 2: other guys are fabulous. I mean it could have been
Speaker 2: done without them. But it's just I had the rapport
Speaker 2: with Duprix because Dupree is one that has a report
Speaker 2: with everybody.
Speaker 6: You talked about this, Oh, his name will lose me. Amster, Amster,
Speaker 6: the defense attorney, Seymour Amster. When we talk about people,
Speaker 6: hear the phrase vigorous defense. That's what this person put on.
Speaker 6: But not to his defense. He went over and beyond
Speaker 6: what people would consider a vigorous defense, challenging with motions,
Speaker 6: challenging every single thing, going to sidebar. He did much
Speaker 6: more than that, didn't he and some very odd behavior.
Speaker 6: Tell us about his behavior at this trial.
Speaker 2: Well, do you know the term village idiot?
Speaker 6: Yes?
Speaker 2: Okay, that pretty much sums him up. He was a lunatic.
Speaker 2: I mean, he was beyond cruel. Most importantly, those family members,
Speaker 2: those innocent family members had waited so long to get
Speaker 2: to trial, and I believe that was because of him
Speaker 2: delaying it. When we got to trial, he delayed it further.
Speaker 2: He delayed it with his antics. He delayed it with
Speaker 2: such bizarre excuses and interruptions. And Judge Kennedy is a lady.
Speaker 2: Judge Kathleen Kennedy, she was excellent. I mean, she's dealing
Speaker 2: with probably the best prosecutor in America in Best Silverman.
Speaker 2: She's a class act. She knows her stuff, she knows everything.
Speaker 2: She's articulate, she's got a fact dawnage. She's strong, and
Speaker 2: she's respectable. Of everybody in the courtroom. You've got the
Speaker 2: village idiot against her right on the other side of
Speaker 2: the table, who's defending the serial killer. And you can't
Speaker 2: hold back but to lose the plot. And Judge Kennedy
Speaker 2: had to sort it out all the time. There was
Speaker 2: always there was I think he got fined for something.
Speaker 2: He would have outbursts. He would drop his suitcase, his
Speaker 2: boycase all over the floor. He'd come in late, his
Speaker 2: hair was all disheveled. He actually dropped the gun. He
Speaker 2: actually dropped the gun. I think I wrote that in
Speaker 2: my book when there was a witness on the stand.
Speaker 2: I mean, if you want Lauren Hardy, I mean Lauren
Speaker 2: and Hardy. But at least stan Laurel was It was
Speaker 2: a good man. He ruined the lives of these innocent
Speaker 2: family members by delaying the process, hoping that cops would
Speaker 2: lose the evidence, witnesses wouldn't come forward, witnesses would die.
Speaker 2: But he didn't think that these innocent family members. They
Speaker 2: were elderly as well, and they had to take the
Speaker 2: bus there, or they had to drive there. They had
Speaker 2: to take time up, work, or out of their day
Speaker 2: every day just to get justice served for their loved one.
Speaker 2: And I blame it all on Senor Answer for acting
Speaker 2: so unprofessionally and crueling and not only costing the system
Speaker 2: thousands of dollars in costomer US taxpayers, that's secondary importantly
Speaker 2: what he did to those two family members, and of
Speaker 2: course tying up Lawin's for us in his time. Everything
Speaker 2: he did was completely selfish and totally unprofessional.
Speaker 6: You talk about this trial being delayed five and a
Speaker 6: half years before it gets to trial in twenty sixteen,
Speaker 6: but also that it's a six month trial, so pretty
Speaker 6: quite laboorous for yours and for everybody involved. And you
Speaker 6: say that, I'd like to say the victims family members,
Speaker 6: some of them aged, would have to come there. You
Speaker 6: it's very visual scenes that you write in the book
Speaker 6: about the family members that come there all the time,
Speaker 6: the stepmother of Barbara Ware, the Alexander family, mother, brother, sister,
Speaker 6: I believe tell us a little bit about that very
Speaker 6: emotional their involvement in this very emotional and personal trial.
Speaker 2: Obviously, Oh well, they held it together with complete decorum.
Speaker 2: And Barbara Where's mother Diane were. She was in very
Speaker 2: bad health, and she would make sure she was that
Speaker 2: every every day, every day that she could. The Alexander
Speaker 2: family did just class like people. That's just wonderful feeling.
Speaker 2: I mean, even when I was just I cannot believe
Speaker 2: that to say just said that, I just want to
Speaker 2: strangle it. You know, even they would hold it together.
Speaker 2: They would look at me and roll their eyes because
Speaker 2: they could not believe that the human being would be
Speaker 2: this distasteful and just unprofessional. So they held it together
Speaker 2: far better than you know I did. I did say
Speaker 2: a few things are choice words against him. And of
Speaker 2: course out in the corridor I was able to speak
Speaker 2: to the Alexander family quite a bit, and they just
Speaker 2: were just good people, kind people wanting justice for their sister,
Speaker 2: their daughter. And then the last day of the actual
Speaker 2: I think it was the sentence thing or whatever it was.
Speaker 2: When each of them were able to get up to speak,
Speaker 2: I mean, there was not a dry eye in the gallery.
Speaker 2: There was not a dry eyed. You felt their pain
Speaker 2: that they'd had for decades and decades, and then finally
Speaker 2: justice was served. But justice could have been served back
Speaker 2: in twenty eleven, a year after he'd been charged with
Speaker 2: these crimes, these murders. It could have been done in
Speaker 2: twenty eleven, and as I said, the defense was the
Speaker 2: one holding up the process. So the family members were there,
Speaker 2: and they were there because they knew they had to be.
Speaker 2: They wanted to be there because they felt each of
Speaker 2: their loved ones were there with them in that courtroom.
Speaker 2: That's what they would tell me. So it was what
Speaker 2: There was nothing else they would do. There was nowhere
Speaker 2: else they would go but that courtrum to see justice served.
Speaker 2: Beautiful people, pure Christian, good god fearing, wonderful people. These
Speaker 2: families are.
Speaker 6: You talk about a very dramatic scene. Obviously, this survivor
Speaker 6: was instrumental in helping bring down this person and also
Speaker 6: knowing things for certain that even if Lonnie Franklin were
Speaker 6: to admit, which he didn't, then Anietra Washington could attest
Speaker 6: to his mo and his signature and everything about what
Speaker 6: he likely did to all these other women ten and
Speaker 6: maybe much and probably more. She was at the trial,
Speaker 6: she's the star witness, of course, but then she's at
Speaker 6: the penalty phase, is after this guy's been given the
Speaker 6: death sentence by a jury or recommended. What It's very dramatic.
Speaker 6: So what does she say about Lonnie Franklin when she
Speaker 6: has the opportunity in the very end, when he's sentenced.
Speaker 2: Ah, God, it's a long time ago. I quite can't remember,
Speaker 2: but I know she hated him, and for good reason.
Speaker 2: She hated him for what he did to her and
Speaker 2: the lives she took of so many others, countless others.
Speaker 2: So she really did not hold back on saying exactly
Speaker 2: how she felt. I mean, the audience, us in the gallery,
Speaker 2: we all were right there with her, We were right
Speaker 2: there in that car with her. With the way she
Speaker 2: described everything so vividly and so specifically. She just had
Speaker 2: such disdain for him, and she was brilliant.
Speaker 6: Yeah you say that. She called him, said he was
Speaker 6: so evil and right up there with Charles Manson, and
Speaker 6: he destroyed her trust in men. And I have no
Speaker 6: doubt and she said he has no remorse, so there's
Speaker 6: no forgiveness. A looted this man.
Speaker 2: A good point. I didn't remember that, but my god,
Speaker 2: I might have to saying that. I don't remember saying that,
Speaker 2: but this is many years ago.
Speaker 6: Then you say that the death penalty was imposed to
Speaker 6: Judge Kennedy and he went to send Quentin. Interesting in
Speaker 6: part of your epilogue you talk about Alicia Alexander, one
Speaker 6: of the victims, and you know you interacted with the
Speaker 6: family at the trial. Very interesting family and story behind
Speaker 6: her life and death. But there was somebody connected to
Speaker 6: her name and Anita Limbrick tell us who she is
Speaker 6: and just oddly what she becomes in terms of her profession.
Speaker 2: She's an Alla County sheriff yep Anithe Limerick. That's exactly
Speaker 2: who she is. She's the sister of Monique Alexander. She's
Speaker 2: a sister and she was there a few times in
Speaker 2: the trial. Very very sweet person and very close to
Speaker 2: her sister. And it took two different paths because she
Speaker 2: was a tomboy as a kid and Monique Alexander Alisha
Speaker 2: Monique Alexander. She was a very feminine girl, like to
Speaker 2: sing and dance and do a little fun, pretty things.
Speaker 2: So they were so close, yet they were so different
Speaker 2: in personality, so she would tell me all about the difference,
Speaker 2: but they were just they were very close. And she
Speaker 2: took that path and she went in the academy, and
Speaker 2: her sister was very excited for her going in the
Speaker 2: sheriff academy. But what happened was I believe that it
Speaker 2: was when the day she was already in the academy,
Speaker 2: So it was right before the academy that Alisha was
Speaker 2: happy and excited about her sister doing this. But it
Speaker 2: was when she was actually in beginning the academy when
Speaker 2: she was told that her sister had been killed. So
Speaker 2: you can imagine how much that affected her. And she
Speaker 2: still made it through it, probably with the strength and
Speaker 2: the support of her sister in heaven giving her that
Speaker 2: strength to go on with the academy and made it
Speaker 2: as a sheriff. And she's been a sheriff so gosh,
Speaker 2: I think three decades. She's an amazing person.
Speaker 6: Yeah, we talked about too. Another dramatic, very very dramatic thing.
Speaker 6: The woman and I don't have her name in front
Speaker 6: of me, Ingrid, I believe, and she came in. They
Speaker 6: flew her in from Germany again in the penalty phase,
Speaker 6: not in the trial phase, but in the penalty phase,
Speaker 6: to just make sure certain that this person got the
Speaker 6: sentence that he deserved, which everyone felt was death. So
Speaker 6: they brought in other witnesses. Again, of course Amster objected,
Speaker 6: but other witnesses, other suspected people about other murders. They
Speaker 6: brought in everything they possibly could to try to convince
Speaker 6: the jury and the judge to make sure that this
Speaker 6: person would be considered the worst of the worst and
Speaker 6: deserving of the death penalty. She came in to testify.
Speaker 6: And when I mentioned this just a little while ago,
Speaker 6: I wanted to say that psychologically, you conclude in this
Speaker 6: book as well, that someone concludes that really what happened
Speaker 6: in Germany was when he was fooled by this woman
Speaker 6: who had been gang raped the night before, that from
Speaker 6: that point on that when a woman he perceived as
Speaker 6: would have deceived him, then that's when he would take
Speaker 6: his Then he would then resort to violence and murder
Speaker 6: because of a perceived slight.
Speaker 2: I think he was What got him to kill was
Speaker 2: not just the profession that they had, because the one reason,
Speaker 2: the main reason most serial killers do that. But it
Speaker 2: was because that they were he was challenged in some way.
Speaker 2: I don't know about the word deceived. I see what
Speaker 2: you're saying. German woman deceived him brilliantly so. But no,
Speaker 2: these other the people, the victims that got into his car,
Speaker 2: I don't think they were deceiving him as such, but
Speaker 2: possibly challenging him on something. And he can't take being challenged.
Speaker 2: As I said, you know, he's got the short man's complex,
Speaker 2: he's got the inferior ority complex from being a bullet
Speaker 2: as a child. So no, he was not going to
Speaker 2: have that happen again. So more than deceive, I would
Speaker 2: say he was challenged and that's it he snapped. But
Speaker 2: I also think it was premeditated. He would get these
Speaker 2: women in the car and know that they were going
Speaker 2: to be killed, so that at the point that he
Speaker 2: killed them was when they probably challenged him on something.
Speaker 2: I wasn't in the car. You know, we don't really know.
Speaker 2: And of course I didn't speak to him about specifically
Speaker 2: about his crimes because he was not He was in
Speaker 2: trial and he was in the jail. He hadn't got
Speaker 2: to death row. Now he's on death row. Along with
Speaker 2: seven hundred and forty eight others, because there's seven hundred
Speaker 2: and forty nine people on California death row, and you
Speaker 2: know he's going to sit there until he died of
Speaker 2: natural causes. He won't begin in the death penalty sadly. Oh,
Speaker 2: people sit there like everybody else because of this liberal
Speaker 2: state that won't kill anybody.
Speaker 6: Yes, absolutely, And you, being a very prolific author here
Speaker 6: and journalist, you were working on something else that coincidentally,
Speaker 6: this trial was going on at the same time as
Speaker 6: some of those people that you consider friends. Some of
Speaker 6: those people that you have been around for quite a while,
Speaker 6: they're involved in some case and you are working on
Speaker 6: a new book about that case. Maybe just tell us
Speaker 6: a little bit before we let you go about what
Speaker 6: you're working on as a result of these two cases
Speaker 6: coming up around the same time at trial.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you have to shut me up at some point
Speaker 2: because I could go on forever. But in twenty eleven,
Speaker 2: the actual time I was in the me in Central
Speaker 2: Jail interviewing Lonnie, and as you know, I've got friends
Speaker 2: in that department that gave it three times extra time,
Speaker 2: and the passing around the jail at the time, the
Speaker 2: lieutenant called Greg Thompson. God bless him, is in jail,
Speaker 2: is in prison right now in Wisconsin. But it was
Speaker 2: him instrumental in getting me the extra time with Lonnie
Speaker 2: Franklin because he ran the jail and he's known me
Speaker 2: since I was nineteen, but I didn't know it was him,
Speaker 2: So it was just very sweet, sadly, in twenty eleven,
Speaker 2: in the summer of twy eleven, they FBI decided to
Speaker 2: smuggle a cell phone into the men's Central Jail, one
Speaker 2: of the most illegal forms of contraband. They smuggled into
Speaker 2: a man by the name of Anthony Brown facing four
Speaker 2: hundred and twenty or twenty five years in state prison.
Speaker 2: His cellmate was a guy that was up for attempted homicide.
Speaker 2: They smuggled that in illegally. They didn't ask Shriff's department
Speaker 2: permission first, and in fact, they were quite evasive about
Speaker 2: even working with the shriff's department when the Shriff's department
Speaker 2: wanted to just reach out and say what are we
Speaker 2: doing here with the cell phone, when, of course it
Speaker 2: was discovered that the last calls was an FBI building.
Speaker 2: So Shriff's department were wanted to work with the FBI,
Speaker 2: let's investigate jail abuse, if that's what you're here for,
Speaker 2: Because they were investigating jail abuse, which is actually what's
Speaker 2: called discipline in a Republican world anyway, So they're investigating
Speaker 2: jail abuse in lifetime because they wanted this Anthony Brown
Speaker 2: to take video of lifetime in lifetime of abuse that
Speaker 2: went on, which really wasn't so nothing was on the phone.
Speaker 2: But because the FBI weren't working with the Sheriff's department,
Speaker 2: they then it became a tough war, and then they
Speaker 2: hit the inmate. Because the inmate was a risk to himself.
Speaker 2: It was a danger to have him in the general population,
Speaker 2: so they hit him. They took him away from the
Speaker 2: Men Central Jail to Sandy miss Jail, they changed his name,
Speaker 2: they took him out of the system. So when the
Speaker 2: FBI went to visit him, they said, there's never been
Speaker 2: somebody here called Anthony Brown. Well, then the fight was on.
Speaker 2: But they were doing it for their own protection and
Speaker 2: for Anthony Brown's protection. And the FBI would say differently.
Speaker 2: They would say that the Sheriff's Department were obstructing a
Speaker 2: federal investigation and conspiracy to obstruct a federal investigation. When
Speaker 2: the Sheriff's department went to Leah Marx's home. She was
Speaker 2: Special Agent March. She was the one who actually was
Speaker 2: the person who got the cell phone smuggled then buy
Speaker 2: a dirty cop by the name of Pilbert Michelle into
Speaker 2: the jail. They went to her and they said, we've
Speaker 2: got a warrant for your rescue, but not come to
Speaker 2: our jail. Well that wasn't true. So another charge on
Speaker 2: all these six deputy sergeants, lieutenants at the under sheriff,
Speaker 2: and a captain. They were all charged with conspiracy to
Speaker 2: obstruct an investigation, obstructing a federal investigation, and lying to
Speaker 2: federal investigators. So yes, this is what happened. So while
Speaker 2: that cell phone and the scandal was going on, I
Speaker 2: was visiting alone with Franklin when the trial came up
Speaker 2: from my dear friends who all known me since I
Speaker 2: was nineteen. I went there and I heard the testimony
Speaker 2: and I heard and I was in some of the trials.
Speaker 2: So I was running from the federal building to the
Speaker 2: criminal courts building and trying to cover both trials at
Speaker 2: the same time. It was a bit tough, but I've
Speaker 2: got the energy to do it and I did as
Speaker 2: much as I could. I would like to work on
Speaker 2: a book. It is be a fabulous book, but who
Speaker 2: would my readers be. That's the only thing. Because it
Speaker 2: is very specific to the Los Angeles Cantiyhiriff's Department. Every
Speaker 2: single one of them, I believe, in my opinion, are
Speaker 2: wrongly convicted. They were just following orders from above. They
Speaker 2: were just pulling those orders of the Undershare of Tanaka
Speaker 2: and they did what they were told. Not one of
Speaker 2: them deserves to be in prison. And it's devastating because
Speaker 2: one of these innocent men, Sergeant to Scott Craig, has
Speaker 2: got stage four cancer and they won't even let him
Speaker 2: out a few months early. So it's horrible. And I
Speaker 2: went to visit Lieutenant Greg Thompson in Wisconsin. In Oxford,
Speaker 2: I went out to visit him about five months ago
Speaker 2: while I was in between working on ships. So yes,
Speaker 2: I visited him as well. And I'm in touch with
Speaker 2: them every day on the email because they can email
Speaker 2: out of prison. And I work out with the captain
Speaker 2: who's now out of prison as well. I work out
Speaker 2: with him every morning at the gym. I won't say
Speaker 2: where I live, but I work. When I'm in between
Speaker 2: ships like i am for a few months, I work
Speaker 2: out at a gym. Finally with the Captain of Internal
Speaker 2: Criminal Investigations Bureau. So they've been through the ring of
Speaker 2: these guys.
Speaker 6: Yeah, well, incredibly reversing fortunes. Oh, very very interesting, and
Speaker 6: congratulations on that work. I'm sure that they are happy
Speaker 6: that you're in their corner at least, at the very
Speaker 6: very least. I want to thank you very much, Victoria
Speaker 6: Redstall for coming on and talking about the Grim Sleeper,
Speaker 6: talking with America's most notorious serial killer, Lonnie Franklin Jr.
Speaker 6: It's been an absolute pleasure, Victoria. For those that might
Speaker 6: want to take a look at you rather work. Do
Speaker 6: you have a Facebook page website?
Speaker 2: Tell us about that I got. My website is Victoria
Speaker 2: Redstall dot com. That's R. E. D. S T A
Speaker 2: L L dot com. My books are available on Amazon UK,
Speaker 2: Amazon and also America Amazon Facebook. Yes, I have a
Speaker 2: what's called a like page. I think it's called it's
Speaker 2: a fan page. But I've been living on a ship
Speaker 2: for four months in Alaska, so i haven't done much
Speaker 2: work on camera. I did yesterday TV show which I'll
Speaker 2: put on my Facebook page soon and absolutely Facebook and Twitter,
Speaker 2: sometimes Instagram, but mainly Facebook is where my work is
Speaker 2: and my website Victoriaredstore dot com.
Speaker 6: Thank you very much, Victoria Redstall. Hope to talk to
Speaker 6: you again real soon. It's been a pleasure. Thank you,
Speaker 6: thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2: For having me. Then, thank you, good night, good night,