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<v Speaker 1>Welcome back to the Pathway Chili. I'm Robin, I'm Jules.

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<v Speaker 2>And I'm Ashley. Let's dive right into this week's case.

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<v Speaker 3>April sixteenth, two thousand and three, Kendall County, Texas, Fifty

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<v Speaker 3>four year old Colonel Philip Schue, who works as a

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<v Speaker 3>staff psychiatrist for the United States Air Force, leaves his

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<v Speaker 3>residence to drive to work. Two and a half hours later,

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<v Speaker 3>Colonel Shoe's car is seen driving erradically down the interstate

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<v Speaker 3>before it crashes into some trees and Shoe is found

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<v Speaker 3>dead in the ever seed. Even though his death is

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<v Speaker 3>ruled to be a suicide, there are a number of

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<v Speaker 3>suspicious discrepancies, as there's duct tape around his wristen feet,

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<v Speaker 3>a large gash in his chest, and both of his

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<v Speaker 3>nipples have been removed. There's suspicion that Sho's ex wife

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<v Speaker 3>had him tortured and killed in order to cash in

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<v Speaker 3>on some life insurance policies, but even though a judge

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<v Speaker 3>eventually rules that she was the victim of a homicide,

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<v Speaker 3>his official cause of death is never changed.

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<v Speaker 1>After that, the path went chilly, So today we're going

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<v Speaker 1>to be delving into one of the oddest mysteries we've

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<v Speaker 1>ever covered the unexplained two thousand and three death of

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<v Speaker 1>Colonel Philip Schue. We've explored a lot of cases in

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<v Speaker 1>which a victim's death was ruled to be a suicide,

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<v Speaker 1>even though there were a number of suspicious details which

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<v Speaker 1>made their loved ones suspect foul play, But the circumstances

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<v Speaker 1>of this case are so bizarre that it stands out

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<v Speaker 1>from the pack. Colonel Phillips Sheue was a psychiatrist with

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<v Speaker 1>the United States Air Force who was only months away

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<v Speaker 1>from retirement and had future plans with his wife, Tracey.

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<v Speaker 1>But after leaving his home one morning for what should

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<v Speaker 1>have been a routine work day, he was killed in

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<v Speaker 1>a car crash less than three hours later. But this

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<v Speaker 1>was no ordinary car crash because when Scho's body was found,

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<v Speaker 1>he had duct tape wrapped around his wrist and feet

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<v Speaker 1>and a number of unexplained injuries which could not have

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<v Speaker 1>been caused by the accident, as there was a large

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<v Speaker 1>gash in his chest and both his nipples and a

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<v Speaker 1>digit from one of his fingers had been removed and

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<v Speaker 1>could not be found at the scene. And believe it

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<v Speaker 1>or not, the authorities were inclined to believe that Colonel

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<v Speaker 1>Chue inflicted these injuries on himself before intentionally crashing his

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<v Speaker 1>car in a very elaborate suicide. Prior to his death,

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<v Speaker 1>Shue had displayed a lot of paranoid and erratic behavior

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<v Speaker 1>because he was convinced his ex wife was planning to

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<v Speaker 1>kill him in order to cash in on some lucrative

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<v Speaker 1>insurance policies she had taken out on his life as

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<v Speaker 1>part of their divorce settlement. For this reason, some people,

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<v Speaker 1>including Schu's widow, believed that his ex wife abducted and

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<v Speaker 1>tortured him, and when he attempted to make an escape,

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<v Speaker 1>he wound up losing control of his car it was

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<v Speaker 1>killed in a fatal crash. At a civil trial years later,

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<v Speaker 1>a judge publicly expressed his belief that Colonel Shoe was

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<v Speaker 1>the victim of a homicide, but since he did not

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<v Speaker 1>have the legal authority to make that ruling, the authority

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<v Speaker 1>still officially consider Shoe's death to be a suicide. It's

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<v Speaker 1>a pretty baffling case because even though there are a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of odd discrepancies about the suicide ruling, which cannot

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<v Speaker 1>be adequately explained, it's not that easy to come up

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<v Speaker 1>with a scenario involving foul play which makes much sense either.

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<v Speaker 1>So we're going to explore both sides on today's episode.

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<v Speaker 2>So you said, we've talked about some odd cases before.

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<v Speaker 2>This is already one of the more bizarre cases we've

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<v Speaker 2>discussed because of the injuries to Colonel Shoe. When you

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<v Speaker 2>look at the way he left the house and then

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<v Speaker 2>is seen driving erradically down the highway, it does almost

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<v Speaker 2>seem like he's having an altercation with somebody, and when

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<v Speaker 2>you look at his injuries, it would appear so as well.

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<v Speaker 2>But then there's the question if the car crashes, how

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<v Speaker 2>does the person who's attacking him guarantee that they're going

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<v Speaker 2>to get out right or they're going to get away

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<v Speaker 2>And there's no sign of another individual. No one sees

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<v Speaker 2>someone fleeing from the car, but someone had to have

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<v Speaker 2>gotten into a argument with him or injured him, or

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<v Speaker 2>he completed these injuries elsewhere or through his nipples out

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<v Speaker 2>the window. I mean, it seems incredibly bizarre if this

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<v Speaker 2>is a stage suicide because of the way his body's found.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, this is one of the biggest cases I can

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<v Speaker 1>think of where the timeline is so crucial. Because we

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<v Speaker 1>have a window of nearly three hours where Colonel Shoes

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<v Speaker 1>whereabouts are on accounted for, and to this day they've

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<v Speaker 1>never been able to figure out where he was and

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<v Speaker 1>what happened to him. So, either he was abducted and

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<v Speaker 1>someone was torturing him and he managed to make an

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<v Speaker 1>escape before he crashed his car, or he just drove

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<v Speaker 1>to some remote area and was doing stuff like cutting

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<v Speaker 1>off his own nipples and then just decided to crash

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<v Speaker 1>his intentionally. And it's just so wild that all this

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<v Speaker 1>time has passed and no one has been able to

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<v Speaker 1>find any conclusive evidence of where he was during that

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<v Speaker 1>window of time.

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<v Speaker 3>Was he missing an entire finger or just like a

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<v Speaker 3>partial finger.

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<v Speaker 1>A partial finger, like a digit on one of his fingers,

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<v Speaker 1>like the top part.

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<v Speaker 2>So for me, when you look at this, did his

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<v Speaker 2>wife say that he left and was agitated.

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<v Speaker 1>At that time?

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<v Speaker 4>Or was it a pretty normal morning?

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<v Speaker 2>And does it take three hours to get to work

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<v Speaker 2>or should he have been at work pretty quickly?

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<v Speaker 1>He should have been at work within an hour or so.

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<v Speaker 1>And as far as his wife was concerned, he seemed

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<v Speaker 1>perfectly normal that morning. There was no indication that he

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<v Speaker 1>was having any mental health problems and he didn't arrive

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<v Speaker 1>at work, so it seems apparent that something happened before

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<v Speaker 1>he made it there. But was he abducted or he

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<v Speaker 1>just decided to do this to himself.

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<v Speaker 3>Our story begins in Kendall County, Texas, in two thousand

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<v Speaker 3>and three, and our central figure is fifty four year

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<v Speaker 3>old Philip Michael Schue, who goes by the name Phil.

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<v Speaker 3>Phil lives just outside the town of Bourne with his wife,

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<v Speaker 3>Tracy Shoe, and holds the rank of colonel in the

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<v Speaker 3>United States Air Force. Born in Brooksville, Ohio, Phil joined

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<v Speaker 3>the Air Force in nineteen seventy and served as a

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<v Speaker 3>navigator for four years, but had to cut his career

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<v Speaker 3>short after he was diagnosed with Minier's disease, a disorder

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<v Speaker 3>which was caused by the build up of fluid in

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<v Speaker 3>the chambers of the inner ear. As a result, Phil

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<v Speaker 3>had several episodes in which he experienced a sudden loss

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<v Speaker 3>of consciousness, and of course, this made him too much

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<v Speaker 3>of a liability to be an aviator. After leaving the

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<v Speaker 3>Air Force for ten years, Phil trained to become a

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<v Speaker 3>physician's assistant and completed medical school before he was accepted

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<v Speaker 3>into a four year residency program at the Wright Patterson

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<v Speaker 3>Air Force Medical Center in Dayton, Ohio. Upon completion of

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<v Speaker 3>this program, he was assigned to Eggland Air Force Base

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<v Speaker 3>in Florida and became their chief medical director of impatient

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<v Speaker 3>mental health. It was here where Phil became acquainted with

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<v Speaker 3>his future wife, Tracy, who was assigned there as an

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<v Speaker 3>Air Force forced nurse, and they gradually began a relationship.

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<v Speaker 3>During this time period, Phil was legally separated from his

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<v Speaker 3>first wife, Nancy, whom he had originally married back in

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<v Speaker 3>nineteen seventy. The couple were high school sweethearts, but Phil

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<v Speaker 3>would later say that there was no real love or

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<v Speaker 3>compatibility in their relationship, and he only agreed to marry

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<v Speaker 3>Nancy because she was six months pregnant at the time.

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<v Speaker 3>She soon gave birth to a son named Jeffrey, though

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<v Speaker 3>many people noticed that he did not appear to look

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<v Speaker 3>all that much like Phil. At the time, Nancy had

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<v Speaker 3>supposedly been carrying on an affair with another man, but

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<v Speaker 3>Phil never asked for any paternity testing to confirm that

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<v Speaker 3>he was Jeffrey's biological father, and raised him as if

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<v Speaker 3>he were his own son. Even though Phil and Nancy's

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<v Speaker 3>marriage had completely fallen apart by the end of the

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<v Speaker 3>nineteen eighties. Their divorce was not actually finalized until nineteen

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<v Speaker 3>ninety two, as Phil wanted to complete his service commitment

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<v Speaker 3>and ensure that Nancy, who was unemployed at the time,

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<v Speaker 3>would still be allowed to retain all of his military benefits.

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<v Speaker 3>By this point, Phil was already deeply involved in his

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<v Speaker 3>relationship with Tracy, and they would get married less than

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<v Speaker 3>one year following the divorce. Ten years later, Phil and

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<v Speaker 3>Tracy were living together in Kendall County, Texas, as he

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<v Speaker 3>was assigned to work as a staff psychiatrist aerospace medicine

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<v Speaker 3>physician at the Wilford Hall Medical Center located at Lackland

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<v Speaker 3>Air Force Base in San Antonio. The Shoes had made

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<v Speaker 3>plans for the future, as Phil was finally going to

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<v Speaker 3>retire from the Air Force. During the fall, he was

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<v Speaker 3>accepted into a forensic psychiatry fellowship program at the University

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<v Speaker 3>of Alabama, and the couple had already put a down

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<v Speaker 3>payment on a new lakefront home near Birmingham.

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<v Speaker 2>Here's what's so interesting with Colonel Shoe is that he

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<v Speaker 2>is a psychiatrist and he's head of the mental health

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<v Speaker 2>facility at a military base, he's pursuing even more education

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<v Speaker 2>and forensic psychiatry following his retirement. And so if you're

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<v Speaker 2>talking about mental health episode and something that would cause

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<v Speaker 2>you to stage just suicide so elaborate, you would think

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<v Speaker 2>that Phil alone would actually be able to say, Hey,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm struggling right, I'm showing signs of X, Y and

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<v Speaker 2>Z diagnoses and I need help. And even if he

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't going outside of his practice to seek professional help,

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<v Speaker 2>he and his wife should have had many discussions where

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<v Speaker 2>he was talking about his own mental health. And if

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know, I just don't think that someone that

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<v Speaker 2>was a psychiatrist could be pursuing so many big things

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<v Speaker 2>and have such a significant break so quickly. Yes, he

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<v Speaker 2>was paranoid about his ex wife, as you alluded to

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<v Speaker 2>in the intro, but you would think there was a

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<v Speaker 2>rapid decline or you would see signs pointing to this

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<v Speaker 2>mental health episode, and that Phil himself would likely have

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<v Speaker 2>noticed it as well, wouldn't you.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh Yeah, And as we're going to talk about, Phil

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<v Speaker 1>was seeing a psychiatrist on his own because he did

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<v Speaker 1>have a few issues with depression and anxiety, but it

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<v Speaker 1>didn't really sound like he was depressed enough that he

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<v Speaker 1>appeared to be suicidal, and not nearly at the point

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<v Speaker 1>where he would commit an elaborate suicide by doing stuff

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<v Speaker 1>like cutting off his own nipples and a piece of

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<v Speaker 1>his finger. And like we just said, they had plans

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<v Speaker 1>for the future, they were planning to do a They

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<v Speaker 1>just did a down payment on a new home in Alabama.

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<v Speaker 1>So even though you can never really predict if someone

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<v Speaker 1>is going to be suicidal, there just aren't signs here

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<v Speaker 1>that he would be capable of doing what they accused

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<v Speaker 1>him of.

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<v Speaker 2>And also, don't you normally see that people who are

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<v Speaker 2>in mental health professions, they actually are encouraged to seek

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<v Speaker 2>help because you're dealing with other patients who have often

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<v Speaker 2>heavy trauma and all kinds of issues that they're coming

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<v Speaker 2>to you for. And so often I've heard that therapist counselors, psychiatrists, psychologists,

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<v Speaker 2>that a lot of them is kind of routine to

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<v Speaker 2>go ahead and see another specialist because you're dealing with

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<v Speaker 2>that mental health crisis all the time in your professional life.

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<v Speaker 3>That is definitely true. But if either of you heard

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<v Speaker 3>of case Hughes, do you know who he is?

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<v Speaker 4>No?

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think so.

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<v Speaker 3>No, he's a neuroscientist. He's got a bunch of degrees.

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<v Speaker 3>He trains all the three letter agencies military on like

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<v Speaker 3>behavioral profiling, and that's his area of expertise. He's thought

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<v Speaker 3>to be like the top profiler in the world. And

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<v Speaker 3>he was having episodes for three years where he didn't

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<v Speaker 3>even realize what was happening. He was just experiencing just

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<v Speaker 3>this mental decline. But he went back and watched all

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<v Speaker 3>these videos where he was guesting on other people's youtubes.

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<v Speaker 3>He's got a really popular they've got like a million

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<v Speaker 3>subscribers on YouTube's called the Behavioral Panel. They read body

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<v Speaker 3>language and they do statement analysis and that type of

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<v Speaker 3>a thing, and it's really good if anyone's interested. But

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<v Speaker 3>he would go on these YouTube videos and he would

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<v Speaker 3>like gray out. He wouldn't realize that he was having

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<v Speaker 3>these moments where he was having a seizure. Essentially, they'd

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<v Speaker 3>be like not like a grand Mall seizure, they're like

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<v Speaker 3>these little seizures. But it got to the point where

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<v Speaker 3>he just didn't see it in himself. But when he

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<v Speaker 3>looked back in retrospect after getting this diagnosis, he realized, like,

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<v Speaker 3>oh my god, this is something that's been happening for years,

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<v Speaker 3>and people that are close to me might have noticed

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<v Speaker 3>little things, but they just thought he's the top of

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<v Speaker 3>his field, this is what he studies. He is going

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<v Speaker 3>to recognize this in himself, and like nobody said anything

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<v Speaker 3>to him.

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<v Speaker 1>Was he having any seizures on live streams during his video?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, they like obvious though, right, it would just like

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<v Speaker 3>he would space out. And it got to the point

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<v Speaker 3>at the worst part of it where he was taking

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<v Speaker 3>his wife where she was going to give birth and

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<v Speaker 3>he didn't know who she was. Oh well, he thought like,

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<v Speaker 3>if I just keep going along with this, I'm hopefully

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<v Speaker 3>going to get the answer. And he's luckily he did

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<v Speaker 3>all of these different protocols and managed to make I think,

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<v Speaker 3>like pretty much a full recovery, but which is rather

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<v Speaker 3>miraculous given to his diagnosis and what the long term

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<v Speaker 3>the prognosis was really negative.

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<v Speaker 4>His story is.

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<v Speaker 3>A really interesting one. So I think that you're likely

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<v Speaker 3>right ash that somebody would notice those things within himselfs

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<v Speaker 3>and it would seem like he would probably be talking

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<v Speaker 3>to somebody. But there is always that possibility that people

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<v Speaker 3>may notice things and just not pointed out because they're like, well,

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<v Speaker 3>he's got a hold of this like he knows what

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<v Speaker 3>he's doing well.

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<v Speaker 1>At around five forty five am on the morning of

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<v Speaker 1>April the sixteenth, after saying goodbye to his wife, Phil

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<v Speaker 1>left his home at his nineteen ninety five Mercury Tracer

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<v Speaker 1>in order to drive to Lachland Air Force Base, which

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<v Speaker 1>was located about thirty miles away. This was about an

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<v Speaker 1>hour earlier than when Phil usually left for work, but

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<v Speaker 1>he said he needed to catch up on some paperwork

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<v Speaker 1>that morning. But over the course the next two and

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<v Speaker 1>a half hours, a bizarre series of events would take

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<v Speaker 1>place which have never been adequately explained. Sometime between eight

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<v Speaker 1>and eight fifteen am, a pair of motorists would report

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<v Speaker 1>seeing Phil's Mercury Tracer erradically swerving while driving westbound off

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<v Speaker 1>Interstate ten. This location was relatively close to San Antonio,

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<v Speaker 1>but he was traveling in the opposite direction of the

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<v Speaker 1>air Force base. The tracer would drive onto the Interstate

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<v Speaker 1>Center Medium and travel several hundred yards negotiating between two

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<v Speaker 1>light poles before it struck an object. This caused the

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<v Speaker 1>vehicle to briefly go airborne, but after it came back

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<v Speaker 1>down on all four wheels, it returned to the interstate

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<v Speaker 1>and continued traveling westbound. The two motorists behind the tracers

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<v Speaker 1>said that it drove between sixty to sixty five miles

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<v Speaker 1>per hour for the next few minutes, but after it

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<v Speaker 1>passed the exit for John's Road, it veered off the

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<v Speaker 1>right shoulder. It then crossed the side medium and the

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<v Speaker 1>access rode for about forty three feet before it clipped

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<v Speaker 1>a tree and spun sharply in a clockwise direction until

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<v Speaker 1>it crashed into a second free with great force. When

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<v Speaker 1>emergency workers arrived at the scene, they discovered Colonel Shoe's

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<v Speaker 1>body in the driver's seat as the impact of the crash.

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<v Speaker 1>It caused a driver's side to cave in, and he

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<v Speaker 1>was killed instantly after suffering fatal head trauma. However, it

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<v Speaker 1>soon became apparent that this was not a normal accident,

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<v Speaker 1>as Shoe had duct tape wrapped around each of his

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<v Speaker 1>wrists as well as the top of each of his boots.

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<v Speaker 1>The loose end of each piece of tape was dangling

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<v Speaker 1>about four to five inches from his wrists, and since

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<v Speaker 1>no roll of duct tape could be found at the scene,

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<v Speaker 1>it almost appeared that she had been bound at some

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00:15:08.320 --> 00:15:11.759
<v Speaker 1>point before he managed to break free. The colonel also

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<v Speaker 1>had a number of strange injuries on his body which

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<v Speaker 1>had clearly not been caused by the crash. The T

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00:15:17.320 --> 00:15:20.159
<v Speaker 1>shirt beneath his Air Force uniform was ripped open from

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<v Speaker 1>the chest to the navel, and he had a six

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00:15:22.240 --> 00:15:25.799
<v Speaker 1>inch vertical gash in his chest. The distal joint from

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<v Speaker 1>the pinky finger on Shoe's left hand had been removed,

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<v Speaker 1>and most disturbingly, both of Shoe's nipples were cut off.

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<v Speaker 1>The missing digit and the nipples could not be found

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<v Speaker 1>inside the vehicle or anywhere near the accident scene, even

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<v Speaker 1>though she was carrying forty seven dollars in his pants pocket.

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<v Speaker 1>His wallets and military dog tags couldnot be found either

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<v Speaker 1>and were never recovered. Since no one could place the

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<v Speaker 1>colonel at the Wilford Hall Medical Center that morning, it

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<v Speaker 1>seemed apparent that he never arrived at work and something

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<v Speaker 1>very odd happened to him during the two and a

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<v Speaker 1>half hour window after he left his home.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, so we can establish likely that this wasn't a

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<v Speaker 2>staged car accident. That's what I was initially kind of thinking.

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<v Speaker 4>But it's more.

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<v Speaker 2>Likely that you would have an attacker in the car

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<v Speaker 2>with him. Maybe that the attack was supposed to happen

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<v Speaker 2>with the car parked and Colonel Shoe was able to

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00:16:17.440 --> 00:16:21.240
<v Speaker 2>drive away, or maybe things were fine and he had

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00:16:21.240 --> 00:16:24.759
<v Speaker 2>been subdued and was then able to start attacking his

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00:16:25.080 --> 00:16:29.840
<v Speaker 2>attacker while they're driving. But you see these people watching

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00:16:29.919 --> 00:16:33.720
<v Speaker 2>him veer off, hit an object, go air Morne. Does

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00:16:33.759 --> 00:16:38.080
<v Speaker 2>anyone see the actual crash and have eyes on the

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00:16:38.159 --> 00:16:41.120
<v Speaker 2>vehicle the entire time before emergency responders get there?

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<v Speaker 1>Uh? Pretty much? Yeah, Like it's a certainty to me

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00:16:44.519 --> 00:16:47.200
<v Speaker 1>that if he did have an attacker, that person was

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<v Speaker 1>not in the car with him when it crashed, and

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<v Speaker 1>that if there was an outside third party involved, it

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00:16:52.159 --> 00:16:54.960
<v Speaker 1>had to have taken place at another location, and Shoe

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<v Speaker 1>was just driving away as fast as he can for

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<v Speaker 1>dear life, and if there are any other cars fallowing

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00:17:00.320 --> 00:17:02.200
<v Speaker 1>him that could have been driven by his attack, or

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<v Speaker 1>it does not sound like any of the motorists noticed.

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<v Speaker 2>It, Okay, So there's the likelihood that he was being

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00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:12.319
<v Speaker 2>abused and attacked, and then he gets in his vehicle

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<v Speaker 2>and flees and possibly like a loss of blood and

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<v Speaker 2>trauma and shock all that's making it where he's erratically

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<v Speaker 2>driving and then crashes the car pretty much.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Like it was established that the accident was what

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00:17:24.279 --> 00:17:27.000
<v Speaker 1>killed him, but it's just a matter was someone torturing

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00:17:27.079 --> 00:17:29.279
<v Speaker 1>him and trying to kill him before this happened.

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<v Speaker 2>That's wild because I was wondering, how did someone have

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00:17:32.400 --> 00:17:34.599
<v Speaker 2>eyes on the vehicle and no one else gets out?

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00:17:34.759 --> 00:17:37.359
<v Speaker 2>But then that makes perfect sense. He actually fled the

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00:17:37.400 --> 00:17:41.400
<v Speaker 2>scene of the attack alone, and then because of the

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00:17:41.440 --> 00:17:43.640
<v Speaker 2>medical repercussions of that abuse, it's.

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<v Speaker 4>Likely that he wasn't able to keep control of the car.

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<v Speaker 1>Pretty much.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, if that was done to you, can you imagine

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<v Speaker 3>how terrified you would be, Like you would not be

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<v Speaker 3>in your right state of mind. Your adrenaline would be

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<v Speaker 3>pumping like a million miles a minute, and you're just

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<v Speaker 3>trying to get away from this horrific scene where somebody's

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00:18:03.200 --> 00:18:06.359
<v Speaker 3>been torturing you. I just have a hard time believing

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<v Speaker 3>somebody who seemed to be exhibiting no signs of mental distress,

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00:18:10.640 --> 00:18:14.240
<v Speaker 3>somebody who's a psychiatrist who's very educated on these things,

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00:18:14.319 --> 00:18:17.839
<v Speaker 3>would then remove his nipples. I mean, did they say

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<v Speaker 3>that the nipples were removed with any kind of like

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<v Speaker 3>surgical certainty or anything, Robin.

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<v Speaker 1>Not really, No, like they think it was done by

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<v Speaker 1>a cutting tool of some sort, but there wasn't a

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<v Speaker 1>cutting tool inside the car, So if he did it

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<v Speaker 1>to himself, he left the nipples and the cutting tool

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<v Speaker 1>at another location.

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<v Speaker 3>And if he did it to himself, he couldn't have

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<v Speaker 3>done it in the car, most likely because there would

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<v Speaker 3>be a lot of blood present, right exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>They didn't find any blood in there to indicate that

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<v Speaker 1>they had been removed inside the vehicle. For some reason,

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<v Speaker 1>Tracy Chu did not learn about her husband's fatal crash

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<v Speaker 1>for several hours, as the Kendall County Sheriff's Office showed

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<v Speaker 1>up at her residence to a former about what happened

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<v Speaker 1>at around three pm. According to Tracy, even though they

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<v Speaker 1>did not mention that tape had been wrapped around Phil's

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<v Speaker 1>wrists and ankles, she was not told about the strange

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<v Speaker 1>injuries and mutilation to her husband's body until a San

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<v Speaker 1>Antonio newspaper reporter phoned her up and asked for comment

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<v Speaker 1>about it about a month and a half later. On

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<v Speaker 1>the surface, it almost appeared that at some point during

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<v Speaker 1>his commute to work, Phil had been abducted and tortured

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<v Speaker 1>at an unknown location, but managed to escape. He made

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<v Speaker 1>it back to his own car and attempted to flee,

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<v Speaker 1>but lost control of the vehicle and was killed before

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<v Speaker 1>he managed to get help. But believe it or not,

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<v Speaker 1>after a lengthy investigation which involved several agencies, including the

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<v Speaker 1>local and state police and the Air Force Office of

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<v Speaker 1>Special Investigations, they all reached the conclusion that Colonel Schue

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<v Speaker 1>had suffered some sort of psychological breakdown and his death

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<v Speaker 1>was an elaborate suicide. Shoe's autopsy was performed at the

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<v Speaker 1>office of doctor Vincent Demyo, Medical Examiner of Bear County, Texas.

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<v Speaker 1>Doctor Demyo was also considered to be one of the

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<v Speaker 1>top forensic pathologists in the country, and he concurred with

386
00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:03.599
<v Speaker 1>the suicide ruling. According to the two motorists who would

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00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:07.359
<v Speaker 1>follow behind Shoe's Mercury Tracer on Interstate ten, the brake

388
00:20:07.440 --> 00:20:09.880
<v Speaker 1>lights never went on when the vehicle veered off the road,

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00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:12.759
<v Speaker 1>and since no skid marks could be found at the scene,

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00:20:12.960 --> 00:20:15.559
<v Speaker 1>it appeared that she made no attempt to stop himself

391
00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:18.960
<v Speaker 1>from crashing into the tree. There were no defensive wounds

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00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:22.079
<v Speaker 1>found on Shoe's body to indicate any struggle had taken place,

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00:20:22.359 --> 00:20:25.480
<v Speaker 1>and the autopsy uncovered scratch abrasions near the gash in

394
00:20:25.559 --> 00:20:29.279
<v Speaker 1>his chest, which appeared to be consistent with hesitation marks,

395
00:20:29.319 --> 00:20:31.519
<v Speaker 1>almost as if he had been working himself up to

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00:20:31.599 --> 00:20:35.319
<v Speaker 1>self inflict those wounds. She also had two point four

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00:20:35.359 --> 00:20:39.160
<v Speaker 1>milligrams per leader of an anesthetic called letocane in his system,

398
00:20:39.519 --> 00:20:41.440
<v Speaker 1>and it wouldn't have made much sense for a third

399
00:20:41.440 --> 00:20:43.759
<v Speaker 1>party to inject him with a pain killer if they

400
00:20:43.799 --> 00:20:47.599
<v Speaker 1>were planning to torture him. This made doctor Demiyo suspect

401
00:20:47.640 --> 00:20:50.559
<v Speaker 1>that she injected the litocane into himself in order to

402
00:20:50.640 --> 00:20:53.160
<v Speaker 1>dull the pain while he slashed his own chest and

403
00:20:53.240 --> 00:20:56.480
<v Speaker 1>cut off his own nipples and fingertip. Demayo did not

404
00:20:56.559 --> 00:20:58.279
<v Speaker 1>buy the theory that she was in the midst of

405
00:20:58.359 --> 00:21:01.160
<v Speaker 1>attempting to escape from his captors, because he did not

406
00:21:01.279 --> 00:21:04.200
<v Speaker 1>make any apparent attempt to seek help. Right before he

407
00:21:04.240 --> 00:21:07.759
<v Speaker 1>crashed his car, Shoe drove past several businesses as well

408
00:21:07.759 --> 00:21:10.039
<v Speaker 1>as three exits which would have taken him back to

409
00:21:10.119 --> 00:21:13.599
<v Speaker 1>his hometown of Born. In addition, he passed by a

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00:21:13.599 --> 00:21:16.680
<v Speaker 1>patrol car from the Born Police Department, which had pulled

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00:21:16.680 --> 00:21:18.799
<v Speaker 1>over by the side of the interstate to assist a

412
00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:22.359
<v Speaker 1>motorists and was easily visible because of its flashing lights.

413
00:21:22.759 --> 00:21:25.559
<v Speaker 1>Shoe's cell phone was also found inside his vehicle, but

414
00:21:25.680 --> 00:21:27.839
<v Speaker 1>records would show that no calls were made from the

415
00:21:27.880 --> 00:21:28.799
<v Speaker 1>phone that morning.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, so now my brain is spinning because the light

417
00:21:32.920 --> 00:21:36.519
<v Speaker 2>of cane. Addition, when you look at the injuries and

418
00:21:36.839 --> 00:21:41.559
<v Speaker 2>they say that there's quote hesitation marks, quite interesting, and

419
00:21:41.599 --> 00:21:44.279
<v Speaker 2>the fact that there's an anesthetic in his body to

420
00:21:44.480 --> 00:21:47.640
<v Speaker 2>numb the area that he's cutting, or that someone's cutting.

421
00:21:48.079 --> 00:21:50.480
<v Speaker 2>Like you said, it makes no sense that someone who

422
00:21:50.480 --> 00:21:53.400
<v Speaker 2>wants to actually hurt you is going.

423
00:21:53.200 --> 00:21:54.240
<v Speaker 4>To do such a thing.

424
00:21:54.799 --> 00:21:57.160
<v Speaker 2>But when you look at the idea of the tape

425
00:21:57.240 --> 00:22:01.480
<v Speaker 2>and the just huge gas down the center of his chest,

426
00:22:02.000 --> 00:22:05.039
<v Speaker 2>it's bizarre. Where was his wallet? Where were some of

427
00:22:05.039 --> 00:22:08.759
<v Speaker 2>these other things? And I think that you can explain

428
00:22:08.920 --> 00:22:13.119
<v Speaker 2>no break lights with him losing consciousness. If he was

429
00:22:13.200 --> 00:22:16.480
<v Speaker 2>passing out because of a loss of blood or the

430
00:22:16.519 --> 00:22:21.759
<v Speaker 2>pain or shock is wearing off and he just loses consciousness,

431
00:22:21.839 --> 00:22:24.200
<v Speaker 2>he wouldn't hit the brakes. He would fly off the

432
00:22:24.279 --> 00:22:27.039
<v Speaker 2>road and have no break lights going, or the kind

433
00:22:27.079 --> 00:22:29.279
<v Speaker 2>of skid marks that come.

434
00:22:30.559 --> 00:22:31.359
<v Speaker 4>The final thing.

435
00:22:32.000 --> 00:22:34.720
<v Speaker 2>No one told his poor wife any of these details.

436
00:22:34.759 --> 00:22:39.039
<v Speaker 2>She learns from a newspaper article. I'm just very perplexed

437
00:22:39.039 --> 00:22:42.039
<v Speaker 2>about all of this. But the light A Kane completely

438
00:22:42.200 --> 00:22:45.079
<v Speaker 2>adds that layer of what the heck happened? Did he

439
00:22:45.160 --> 00:22:48.359
<v Speaker 2>do this to himself? That's the one thing, not really

440
00:22:48.359 --> 00:22:51.200
<v Speaker 2>hesitation marks, not really all the other things, but the LIGHTO.

441
00:22:51.279 --> 00:22:53.279
<v Speaker 2>Kane is the one thing that puts me in the

442
00:22:53.359 --> 00:22:55.480
<v Speaker 2>camp of maybe he did do it to himself.

443
00:22:56.279 --> 00:22:59.799
<v Speaker 3>Okay, so he's a doctor. He knows that if he's

444
00:22:59.799 --> 00:23:02.319
<v Speaker 3>trying to stage a suicide, they're going to do a

445
00:23:02.319 --> 00:23:04.640
<v Speaker 3>talk screen on him, They're going to check for all

446
00:23:04.680 --> 00:23:08.039
<v Speaker 3>types of drugs, especially due to the mysterious nature of it.

447
00:23:08.359 --> 00:23:13.119
<v Speaker 3>So to use an anesthetic would be counterintuitive, like, yeah,

448
00:23:13.119 --> 00:23:14.839
<v Speaker 3>it would help you at the time, but it's not

449
00:23:14.880 --> 00:23:18.319
<v Speaker 3>going to help sell your murder theory or if you're

450
00:23:18.359 --> 00:23:20.799
<v Speaker 3>trying to frame your ex wife or something like that,

451
00:23:20.920 --> 00:23:24.440
<v Speaker 3>or obviously add some kind of mysterious element to what

452
00:23:24.519 --> 00:23:27.039
<v Speaker 3>you're doing. There seems to be some kind of plan,

453
00:23:27.160 --> 00:23:29.799
<v Speaker 3>whether it be by his ex wife or by Philip.

454
00:23:30.160 --> 00:23:33.200
<v Speaker 3>I'm not sure. I just I also think it's possible

455
00:23:33.279 --> 00:23:36.920
<v Speaker 3>that an outside party could if they were trying to

456
00:23:37.000 --> 00:23:39.880
<v Speaker 3>make it look like some kind of strange suicide. Maybe

457
00:23:39.880 --> 00:23:42.400
<v Speaker 3>there could be the inclusion of LTA Kane. It seems

458
00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:45.039
<v Speaker 3>far fetched, but anything is possible.

459
00:23:45.759 --> 00:23:48.319
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, in a few moments we're going to share a potential, alternate,

460
00:23:48.359 --> 00:23:51.480
<v Speaker 1>innocent explanation for why he had that lidocane in his system,

461
00:23:51.519 --> 00:23:54.480
<v Speaker 1>which had nothing to do with torture. But a lot

462
00:23:54.519 --> 00:23:56.440
<v Speaker 1>of these points they bring up about why he did

463
00:23:56.599 --> 00:23:59.079
<v Speaker 1>pull over and try to seek out from the police, Well,

464
00:23:59.279 --> 00:24:01.480
<v Speaker 1>Jules just talk about that a few moments ago, about

465
00:24:01.480 --> 00:24:04.119
<v Speaker 1>how he must have been terrified and not thinking rationally,

466
00:24:04.559 --> 00:24:06.559
<v Speaker 1>so I could give him a pass, Like even though

467
00:24:06.599 --> 00:24:08.400
<v Speaker 1>he passed by a police car, if he was in

468
00:24:08.480 --> 00:24:10.920
<v Speaker 1>such a panic and it had such an adrenaline rush

469
00:24:10.960 --> 00:24:13.480
<v Speaker 1>going on right now, he may not have even noticed it.

470
00:24:13.519 --> 00:24:16.279
<v Speaker 1>And that's why he's driving so fast, because he's terrified

471
00:24:16.319 --> 00:24:19.200
<v Speaker 1>and fleeing for his life, and unfortunately he wound up

472
00:24:19.240 --> 00:24:20.039
<v Speaker 1>crashing his car.

473
00:24:22.039 --> 00:24:25.799
<v Speaker 3>Two years after Colonel Shoe was killed, the Lachland Detachment

474
00:24:25.839 --> 00:24:29.160
<v Speaker 3>of the Air Force Office of Special Investigations produced a

475
00:24:29.200 --> 00:24:33.799
<v Speaker 3>twenty page document called the Psychological Autopsy, which also concluded

476
00:24:33.799 --> 00:24:37.160
<v Speaker 3>that his death was a suicide. The report represented the

477
00:24:37.160 --> 00:24:40.920
<v Speaker 3>position of two boards certified forensic psychiatrists from the Armed

478
00:24:40.920 --> 00:24:45.920
<v Speaker 3>Forces Institute of Pathology. Lieutenant Commander Gerald Donovan and Colonel

479
00:24:46.000 --> 00:24:49.599
<v Speaker 3>Elsbeth Cameron Ritchie, who believed that Choo's mental state made

480
00:24:49.680 --> 00:24:52.519
<v Speaker 3>him depressed, anxious, and paranoid. In the months before he

481
00:24:52.599 --> 00:24:56.319
<v Speaker 3>was killed, she had been receiving treatment from Lieutenant Colonel

482
00:24:56.359 --> 00:25:00.000
<v Speaker 3>Douglas Dion, a staff psychiatrist to the Brooks Army Medicals,

483
00:25:00.799 --> 00:25:04.039
<v Speaker 3>and six months before he died, she reportedly told Dion

484
00:25:04.440 --> 00:25:08.079
<v Speaker 3>that he'd experienced a dark and disturbing associated episode in

485
00:25:08.119 --> 00:25:10.839
<v Speaker 3>which he imagined his cargoing out of control on his

486
00:25:10.920 --> 00:25:13.279
<v Speaker 3>way to work while great violence was done to him.

487
00:25:13.640 --> 00:25:16.279
<v Speaker 3>If true, this seemed to support the idea that she

488
00:25:16.319 --> 00:25:20.119
<v Speaker 3>would stage the fatal car crash on his own accord well.

489
00:25:20.160 --> 00:25:22.839
<v Speaker 3>Needless to say, Tracy Chu did not believe her husband

490
00:25:22.880 --> 00:25:25.559
<v Speaker 3>would have taken his own life, as she and philid

491
00:25:25.559 --> 00:25:27.920
<v Speaker 3>made plans for the future, and he actually put a

492
00:25:27.960 --> 00:25:30.480
<v Speaker 3>deposit down on the house they purchased in Alabama the

493
00:25:30.599 --> 00:25:34.319
<v Speaker 3>day before he died. Tracy's original plan was to have

494
00:25:34.400 --> 00:25:38.640
<v Speaker 3>Phil's body cremated and his remains interred at Arlington National

495
00:25:38.680 --> 00:25:42.200
<v Speaker 3>Cemetery in Virginia, but the suicide ruling changed all that,

496
00:25:42.680 --> 00:25:45.039
<v Speaker 3>and she ordered the funeral home to store her husband's

497
00:25:45.039 --> 00:25:47.000
<v Speaker 3>body in a refrigerated crypt.

498
00:25:47.839 --> 00:25:51.720
<v Speaker 2>He predicted this exact scenario happening to him.

499
00:25:52.079 --> 00:25:54.160
<v Speaker 1>Well, as we're going to go up talk about later

500
00:25:54.160 --> 00:25:58.039
<v Speaker 1>on in the episode. That psychiatrist has disputed this, claiming

501
00:25:58.119 --> 00:26:01.279
<v Speaker 1>that Phil never actually said that. But if he did

502
00:26:01.279 --> 00:26:04.960
<v Speaker 1>predict it, though, then that does give credence to the

503
00:26:04.960 --> 00:26:06.599
<v Speaker 1>idea that he could have staged the whole thing.

504
00:26:07.559 --> 00:26:08.799
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, that's really bizarre.

505
00:26:09.279 --> 00:26:12.680
<v Speaker 2>It's interesting because when you look at this, like she said,

506
00:26:12.920 --> 00:26:15.240
<v Speaker 2>he put it down payment on our house. We had

507
00:26:15.279 --> 00:26:18.000
<v Speaker 2>these big plans. Now, could he have put it down

508
00:26:18.079 --> 00:26:20.880
<v Speaker 2>payment on the home so that Tracy's one step closer

509
00:26:20.880 --> 00:26:23.240
<v Speaker 2>to getting her dream home and this house she wants,

510
00:26:23.279 --> 00:26:26.519
<v Speaker 2>and then he still takes his own life. Sure, but

511
00:26:26.680 --> 00:26:29.759
<v Speaker 2>again it's very bizarre. I think the fact that he

512
00:26:29.799 --> 00:26:33.680
<v Speaker 2>was depressed and anxious and paranoid, if you have that

513
00:26:33.880 --> 00:26:37.359
<v Speaker 2>going on. One, he's getting help, which I think is incredible.

514
00:26:37.880 --> 00:26:41.000
<v Speaker 2>Two he has these issues with his ex wife I

515
00:26:41.079 --> 00:26:45.440
<v Speaker 2>believe you guys alluded to. That's really stressful. He's retiring,

516
00:26:45.720 --> 00:26:49.759
<v Speaker 2>changing jobs, moving, starting a new career, and a fellowship

517
00:26:49.759 --> 00:26:52.960
<v Speaker 2>for a new medical adventure. So there's a lot of

518
00:26:53.000 --> 00:26:57.119
<v Speaker 2>pressure on his shoulders. It doesn't make you suicidal to

519
00:26:57.160 --> 00:27:01.400
<v Speaker 2>be anxious and depressed and worried about things. So I mean, yes,

520
00:27:01.440 --> 00:27:03.960
<v Speaker 2>that alludes to it, But everyone who's anxious and depressed

521
00:27:04.000 --> 00:27:07.200
<v Speaker 2>is not suicidal, is what I meant. So when you

522
00:27:07.240 --> 00:27:10.119
<v Speaker 2>look at this, I just unless he really did predict this,

523
00:27:10.319 --> 00:27:15.279
<v Speaker 2>which again would be a tally over in the suicide category,

524
00:27:15.319 --> 00:27:19.440
<v Speaker 2>it just seems like, yeah, he was struggling, he's getting help,

525
00:27:20.039 --> 00:27:23.759
<v Speaker 2>and he's making plans with his wife. I'm with Tracy

526
00:27:24.039 --> 00:27:27.079
<v Speaker 2>where she says, why would he do this? I don't

527
00:27:27.119 --> 00:27:29.200
<v Speaker 2>think he would do this? And I think it's incredibly

528
00:27:29.279 --> 00:27:31.400
<v Speaker 2>bold that she says, you're not going to get rid

529
00:27:31.440 --> 00:27:34.240
<v Speaker 2>of my husband's body yet, I'm not cremating him. You're

530
00:27:34.279 --> 00:27:37.480
<v Speaker 2>actually going to keep him in the refrigerated crypt. How

531
00:27:37.519 --> 00:27:38.640
<v Speaker 2>long does he stay there?

532
00:27:39.799 --> 00:27:41.599
<v Speaker 1>He's been there for a couple of years, and he

533
00:27:41.680 --> 00:27:44.640
<v Speaker 1>never did get cremated. He finally did get buried. But

534
00:27:44.880 --> 00:27:47.119
<v Speaker 1>it sounded like she was on the verge of having

535
00:27:47.200 --> 00:27:49.599
<v Speaker 1>him cremated until she got that phone call from the

536
00:27:49.759 --> 00:27:52.839
<v Speaker 1>reporter or asking about these details she never knew about,

537
00:27:53.000 --> 00:27:55.799
<v Speaker 1>like the removed nipples, and then she just suddenly says, Okay,

538
00:27:56.440 --> 00:27:59.039
<v Speaker 1>this is not a standard suicide. We're gonna look closer

539
00:27:59.079 --> 00:28:01.759
<v Speaker 1>into this, so I am not going to cremate my husband.

540
00:28:02.640 --> 00:28:06.400
<v Speaker 1>Tracy eventually hired the services of another famous forensic pathologist,

541
00:28:06.519 --> 00:28:10.839
<v Speaker 1>doctor Cyril Weckt, who performed his own autopsy. He expressed

542
00:28:10.880 --> 00:28:14.920
<v Speaker 1>his disagreement with doctor Demio's original conclusion, as he believed

543
00:28:14.960 --> 00:28:18.559
<v Speaker 1>that another person was likely involved in Shoe's death. Even

544
00:28:18.599 --> 00:28:21.559
<v Speaker 1>though Demyo believed that she had injected himself with lydocane

545
00:28:21.599 --> 00:28:24.559
<v Speaker 1>in order to dull the pain while inflicting wounds on himself,

546
00:28:25.000 --> 00:28:28.200
<v Speaker 1>Wack could not find any injection marks on Phil's body

547
00:28:28.480 --> 00:28:30.559
<v Speaker 1>and did not believe there was enough lytocane in his

548
00:28:30.680 --> 00:28:34.200
<v Speaker 1>system to have caused much pain relief. Tracy confirmed that

549
00:28:34.319 --> 00:28:36.880
<v Speaker 1>on the night before he was killed, Phil was complaining

550
00:28:36.920 --> 00:28:39.960
<v Speaker 1>about itchiness since he had chaved his chest in order

551
00:28:40.039 --> 00:28:43.359
<v Speaker 1>to take a cardiac exam. Since Phil had recently self

552
00:28:43.359 --> 00:28:47.440
<v Speaker 1>prescribed e MLA cream to himself, doctor Wex's theory was

553
00:28:47.480 --> 00:28:49.400
<v Speaker 1>that he may have applied it to his chest in

554
00:28:49.480 --> 00:28:52.799
<v Speaker 1>order to combat the itchiness, as e MLA cream has

555
00:28:52.920 --> 00:28:56.000
<v Speaker 1>lydocane as one of its ingredients, and a small amount

556
00:28:56.079 --> 00:28:58.759
<v Speaker 1>of it could have slipped into Phil's bloodstream after his

557
00:28:58.880 --> 00:29:02.480
<v Speaker 1>chest was sliced open. However, the counter argument to this

558
00:29:02.559 --> 00:29:06.480
<v Speaker 1>theory is that the cream also contained an anesthetic called prilocane,

559
00:29:06.759 --> 00:29:09.799
<v Speaker 1>but no trace of it was detected in Shoe's system.

560
00:29:10.160 --> 00:29:14.359
<v Speaker 1>Another troubling discrepancy Weckt found was that no fingerprints belonging

561
00:29:14.400 --> 00:29:16.759
<v Speaker 1>to Shoe or a third party could be found on

562
00:29:16.799 --> 00:29:19.839
<v Speaker 1>the duct tape on his wrists and boots, which seemed

563
00:29:19.839 --> 00:29:22.839
<v Speaker 1>to go against the idea that Shoe applied the tape himself.

564
00:29:23.279 --> 00:29:26.799
<v Speaker 1>Even if Shoe used gloves to avoid leaving fingerprints, none

565
00:29:26.839 --> 00:29:28.920
<v Speaker 1>could be found at the scene, and while a late

566
00:29:28.920 --> 00:29:32.400
<v Speaker 1>text glove was visible in the original crime photos, it

567
00:29:32.400 --> 00:29:35.000
<v Speaker 1>looked like it had never been used or worn. So

568
00:29:35.079 --> 00:29:38.240
<v Speaker 1>if Colonel Shoe was responsible for inflicting the injuries on

569
00:29:38.319 --> 00:29:41.319
<v Speaker 1>himself and staging his own suicide, he would have needed

570
00:29:41.319 --> 00:29:44.160
<v Speaker 1>to leave a cutting instrument, both of his nipples, the

571
00:29:44.240 --> 00:29:47.480
<v Speaker 1>distal joint from his left pinky finger, his wallet, his

572
00:29:47.599 --> 00:29:51.240
<v Speaker 1>dog tags, and possibly some gloves at a location where

573
00:29:51.240 --> 00:29:54.839
<v Speaker 1>they were never found, before driving several miles and intentionally

574
00:29:54.839 --> 00:29:55.680
<v Speaker 1>crashing his car.

575
00:29:56.640 --> 00:29:59.240
<v Speaker 2>So bizarre, the fact that his wallet and his dog

576
00:29:59.319 --> 00:30:03.559
<v Speaker 2>tags are mistakes are really interesting to me, especially how

577
00:30:03.599 --> 00:30:06.640
<v Speaker 2>important dog tags are to a military member. It allows

578
00:30:06.680 --> 00:30:08.799
<v Speaker 2>you to be identified. It is a way to kind

579
00:30:08.799 --> 00:30:11.880
<v Speaker 2>of honor your service to the military. And the fact

580
00:30:11.920 --> 00:30:14.599
<v Speaker 2>that they were gone off his body while he's on

581
00:30:14.680 --> 00:30:18.400
<v Speaker 2>his way to work on a seemingly normal day is

582
00:30:18.480 --> 00:30:21.519
<v Speaker 2>really odd. Even if he was going to complete suicide,

583
00:30:21.559 --> 00:30:23.720
<v Speaker 2>I feel like he would have his dog tags on

584
00:30:24.359 --> 00:30:29.480
<v Speaker 2>because Tracy needs to know it's him, And again, I mean,

585
00:30:29.519 --> 00:30:33.200
<v Speaker 2>it's something that's also symbolically important. So I'm wondering what

586
00:30:33.279 --> 00:30:34.880
<v Speaker 2>he really take it off when his whole life had

587
00:30:34.920 --> 00:30:36.319
<v Speaker 2>been dedicated to the military.

588
00:30:37.640 --> 00:30:39.599
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it really doesn't make any sense for him to

589
00:30:39.599 --> 00:30:41.599
<v Speaker 1>take them off on his own. I mean, I suppose

590
00:30:41.640 --> 00:30:44.160
<v Speaker 1>if he's had some sort of mental breakdown and he's

591
00:30:44.200 --> 00:30:47.119
<v Speaker 1>just not thinking rationally, he would make a decision like that.

592
00:30:47.720 --> 00:30:51.039
<v Speaker 1>But it almost seems like if this was a planned murder,

593
00:30:51.079 --> 00:30:54.400
<v Speaker 1>that perhaps someone decided to take his dog tags as

594
00:30:54.440 --> 00:30:56.279
<v Speaker 1>some sort of memento or souvenir.

595
00:30:57.480 --> 00:31:00.079
<v Speaker 3>It also doesn't seem rational to remove your own nipples

596
00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:04.000
<v Speaker 3>and fingers. That too, if we're looking through the lens

597
00:31:04.160 --> 00:31:07.880
<v Speaker 3>of somebody who's truly had a mental break then his

598
00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:10.240
<v Speaker 3>actions just might not make sense to us.

599
00:31:10.680 --> 00:31:13.480
<v Speaker 4>That's very true, very very true.

600
00:31:13.720 --> 00:31:17.119
<v Speaker 3>One of doctor Demeyo's biggest arguments for Phil having staged

601
00:31:17.160 --> 00:31:19.440
<v Speaker 3>the scene is that he never attempted to use his

602
00:31:19.480 --> 00:31:22.160
<v Speaker 3>cell phone to call for help. But according to Tracy,

603
00:31:22.240 --> 00:31:24.559
<v Speaker 3>one of their neighbors retrieved the phone from the accident

604
00:31:24.640 --> 00:31:27.400
<v Speaker 3>scene after getting permission to take it from the authorities.

605
00:31:28.000 --> 00:31:31.000
<v Speaker 3>The cell was a clamshell style flip phone model, and

606
00:31:31.039 --> 00:31:33.359
<v Speaker 3>the neighbors said when they opened it they noticed a

607
00:31:33.440 --> 00:31:35.880
<v Speaker 3>large amount of blood on the inside, though there was

608
00:31:36.039 --> 00:31:39.079
<v Speaker 3>very little blood on the outside. However, since the phone

609
00:31:39.119 --> 00:31:42.400
<v Speaker 3>was never taken into evidence and examined, this detail about

610
00:31:42.440 --> 00:31:46.039
<v Speaker 3>the blood could not be corroborated. The psychiatrist Phil had

611
00:31:46.039 --> 00:31:50.000
<v Speaker 3>been seeing, Lieutenant Colonel Douglas Dion, also believed that he'd

612
00:31:50.039 --> 00:31:53.200
<v Speaker 3>been responding well to treatment and did not appear to

613
00:31:53.240 --> 00:31:56.880
<v Speaker 3>be suicidal. There's also been some about the story that

614
00:31:56.920 --> 00:31:59.960
<v Speaker 3>Phil supposedly shared with him six months prior to his death,

615
00:32:00.359 --> 00:32:03.680
<v Speaker 3>where he described an associative episode about his car careening

616
00:32:03.720 --> 00:32:06.759
<v Speaker 3>out of control while traveling to work. Even though this

617
00:32:06.839 --> 00:32:12.359
<v Speaker 3>information was included in psychological autopsy report, Dion supposedly maintained

618
00:32:12.359 --> 00:32:14.720
<v Speaker 3>that he never shared this story with anyone from the

619
00:32:14.759 --> 00:32:18.079
<v Speaker 3>Air Force's Office of Special investigations, and there was no

620
00:32:18.119 --> 00:32:22.519
<v Speaker 3>documentation about it in any of Dion's notes. Tracy managed

621
00:32:22.559 --> 00:32:25.880
<v Speaker 3>to exert enough pressure on Kendall County's district Attorney Bruce

622
00:32:25.960 --> 00:32:29.680
<v Speaker 3>Curry that he agreed to convene an investigative grand jury

623
00:32:29.720 --> 00:32:33.079
<v Speaker 3>to examine her husband's case, but they ultimately concluded that

624
00:32:33.119 --> 00:32:36.440
<v Speaker 3>there was no evidence of homicide and the initial suicide

625
00:32:36.480 --> 00:32:41.599
<v Speaker 3>ruling was correct. When Tracy testified at the grand jury proceedings,

626
00:32:41.839 --> 00:32:45.119
<v Speaker 3>she mentioned that she had not cremated Phil as originally planned,

627
00:32:45.400 --> 00:32:48.759
<v Speaker 3>and instead brought in doctor Wet to perform a second autopsy.

628
00:32:49.400 --> 00:32:52.960
<v Speaker 3>This revelation caused Curry to become enraged to confront Tracy

629
00:32:53.000 --> 00:32:55.759
<v Speaker 3>in the stairwell, where he stated, quote, since you liked

630
00:32:55.799 --> 00:32:58.519
<v Speaker 3>to testify so much, perhaps I should accuse you of

631
00:32:58.559 --> 00:33:00.960
<v Speaker 3>the crime and have you end up in the defendant

632
00:33:01.039 --> 00:33:03.240
<v Speaker 3>seat end quote.

633
00:33:03.519 --> 00:33:08.319
<v Speaker 2>Wow, all right, well, District Attorney Bruce Curry's a jerk, yeap.

634
00:33:08.480 --> 00:33:12.680
<v Speaker 2>That is incredibly horrific. You have a wife who's begging

635
00:33:12.720 --> 00:33:15.960
<v Speaker 2>you to look at her husband's death, and she's convinced

636
00:33:15.960 --> 00:33:18.759
<v Speaker 2>that it's a homicide. If nothing else, you have a

637
00:33:18.759 --> 00:33:21.759
<v Speaker 2>little compassion for a woman who's lost her spouse even

638
00:33:21.799 --> 00:33:25.079
<v Speaker 2>if you're deeply convicted that this is a suicide. And

639
00:33:25.119 --> 00:33:28.559
<v Speaker 2>when she threatens to have a expert come in on

640
00:33:28.599 --> 00:33:32.960
<v Speaker 2>the case to explore her husband's death, what skin off

641
00:33:33.000 --> 00:33:33.480
<v Speaker 2>your nose?

642
00:33:33.559 --> 00:33:34.039
<v Speaker 4>Is it right?

643
00:33:34.119 --> 00:33:36.720
<v Speaker 2>She's paying for it. She wants to have it done.

644
00:33:37.200 --> 00:33:39.680
<v Speaker 2>You have someone who's grieving and in a state of

645
00:33:39.759 --> 00:33:44.680
<v Speaker 2>trauma and her husband either completed suicide and she has

646
00:33:44.720 --> 00:33:48.720
<v Speaker 2>to deal with that and or was hurt, and needless

647
00:33:48.720 --> 00:33:52.039
<v Speaker 2>to say, she knows the details of his bodily injuries.

648
00:33:52.519 --> 00:33:55.599
<v Speaker 2>She knows that for her he left normal that day.

649
00:33:56.119 --> 00:33:58.759
<v Speaker 2>Why wouldn't you simply have compassion for her and say, look,

650
00:33:58.799 --> 00:34:01.000
<v Speaker 2>if you can get more evident, it's more power to you.

651
00:34:01.960 --> 00:34:05.640
<v Speaker 2>It's almost bizarre when you look at the fact that

652
00:34:05.680 --> 00:34:12.159
<v Speaker 2>this psychiatrist says, I never told anyone about this supposed

653
00:34:12.239 --> 00:34:16.320
<v Speaker 2>disassociative episode where he's predicting his death in the same way.

654
00:34:16.880 --> 00:34:20.559
<v Speaker 2>But it is in the military documents. Could someone within

655
00:34:20.599 --> 00:34:23.639
<v Speaker 2>the military have a reason why they want it to

656
00:34:23.679 --> 00:34:26.039
<v Speaker 2>look like this was a suicide. Is there a reason

657
00:34:26.119 --> 00:34:29.719
<v Speaker 2>why that could have been added in there to justify

658
00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:34.199
<v Speaker 2>the suicide ruling and not have it be opened into

659
00:34:34.280 --> 00:34:35.440
<v Speaker 2>a possible homicide.

660
00:34:36.199 --> 00:34:37.840
<v Speaker 1>Well, that's what's so weird about it because in a

661
00:34:37.880 --> 00:34:40.320
<v Speaker 1>few moments we're going to talk about Phil's ex wife,

662
00:34:40.360 --> 00:34:43.199
<v Speaker 1>who was also married to someone in the military, but

663
00:34:43.280 --> 00:34:46.840
<v Speaker 1>he was stationed in another state outside of Texas. So

664
00:34:47.239 --> 00:34:49.800
<v Speaker 1>if you believe that his ex wife was responsible, then

665
00:34:50.199 --> 00:34:52.400
<v Speaker 1>you could wonder if there was a military cover up,

666
00:34:52.440 --> 00:34:55.280
<v Speaker 1>But why would Texas be covering up for someone who

667
00:34:55.320 --> 00:34:58.280
<v Speaker 1>was stationed in Florida. But then again, if the ex

668
00:34:58.320 --> 00:35:01.599
<v Speaker 1>wife wasn't involved and Phil was murdered by someone completely

669
00:35:01.639 --> 00:35:04.719
<v Speaker 1>different associated with the military, than perhaps they would have

670
00:35:05.079 --> 00:35:08.639
<v Speaker 1>reasons to fabricate all this evidence and hope that it

671
00:35:08.679 --> 00:35:12.320
<v Speaker 1>got ruled as a suicide. So right from the outset,

672
00:35:12.440 --> 00:35:14.719
<v Speaker 1>Tracy believed that the person who seemed like the most

673
00:35:14.800 --> 00:35:18.039
<v Speaker 1>likely suspect to have murdered her husband was his estranged

674
00:35:18.079 --> 00:35:22.280
<v Speaker 1>ex wife, Nancy Chu Timpson. By this point, Nancy had

675
00:35:22.280 --> 00:35:25.719
<v Speaker 1>gotten remarried to Lieutenant Colonel Donald Timpson, who was an

676
00:35:25.800 --> 00:35:28.880
<v Speaker 1>active duty pilot in the Air Force Special Forces Unit,

677
00:35:29.119 --> 00:35:32.119
<v Speaker 1>and they were both living in Florida. While Phil was

678
00:35:32.119 --> 00:35:34.920
<v Speaker 1>with Nancy, she became the beneficiary on a pair of

679
00:35:34.960 --> 00:35:38.519
<v Speaker 1>life insurance policies totaling one million dollars, and as part

680
00:35:38.559 --> 00:35:41.400
<v Speaker 1>of their divorce settlement, Nancy retained the right to hold

681
00:35:41.440 --> 00:35:44.320
<v Speaker 1>on to these policies even though they were no longer married.

682
00:35:44.880 --> 00:35:48.599
<v Speaker 1>Over the years, Phil frequently asked Nancy to cancel the policies,

683
00:35:48.719 --> 00:35:51.960
<v Speaker 1>but she refused, claiming she could not afford to the

684
00:35:52.000 --> 00:35:55.039
<v Speaker 1>Suspicion about Nancy began in May of nineteen ninety nine,

685
00:35:55.199 --> 00:35:59.440
<v Speaker 1>nearly four years before Phil's death, when he received an anonymous,

686
00:35:59.480 --> 00:36:03.280
<v Speaker 1>typewritten letter which read quote, please read this letter. You

687
00:36:03.360 --> 00:36:06.280
<v Speaker 1>may be in danger. I'm writing because I remember you

688
00:36:06.320 --> 00:36:09.119
<v Speaker 1>as such a kind and caring doctor, and I can't

689
00:36:09.159 --> 00:36:11.360
<v Speaker 1>just sit by and not help you by telling you

690
00:36:11.400 --> 00:36:14.079
<v Speaker 1>what I know. End quote. The writer then went on

691
00:36:14.159 --> 00:36:17.239
<v Speaker 1>to say that a friend of theirs worked with Nancy's husband, Donald,

692
00:36:17.599 --> 00:36:19.719
<v Speaker 1>and had heard them say they wished Phil was dead

693
00:36:19.840 --> 00:36:23.239
<v Speaker 1>so they could collect his life insurance. The friend apparently

694
00:36:23.280 --> 00:36:25.719
<v Speaker 1>thought that the couple may have been planning something, so

695
00:36:25.760 --> 00:36:27.639
<v Speaker 1>the writer said they felt the need to type up

696
00:36:27.679 --> 00:36:29.679
<v Speaker 1>a letter and send it to Phil in order to

697
00:36:29.719 --> 00:36:33.719
<v Speaker 1>warn him. It's been reported that Phil received a second cryptic,

698
00:36:33.760 --> 00:36:36.960
<v Speaker 1>anonymous note at a later time, which read quote the

699
00:36:37.000 --> 00:36:40.639
<v Speaker 1>plan is now delayed, but not canceled. Be careful. I

700
00:36:40.679 --> 00:36:43.760
<v Speaker 1>can't identify myself because they may find out and stop

701
00:36:43.840 --> 00:36:47.760
<v Speaker 1>letting information slip end quote. Phil's response to these letters

702
00:36:47.840 --> 00:36:50.119
<v Speaker 1>was to write to Nancy and confront her, and he

703
00:36:50.199 --> 00:36:53.400
<v Speaker 1>once again demanded that she dropped the life insurance policy

704
00:36:53.480 --> 00:36:56.599
<v Speaker 1>she had on him, stating, quote, I feel helpless to

705
00:36:56.639 --> 00:37:00.480
<v Speaker 1>prevent my eventual murder if you hire good assassins and quote.

706
00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:04.519
<v Speaker 1>Nancy wrote Phil back and denied their conversation with Donald

707
00:37:04.519 --> 00:37:07.679
<v Speaker 1>about wishing him dead ever took place, and she expressed

708
00:37:07.679 --> 00:37:09.880
<v Speaker 1>her belief that someone was playing a sick joke on

709
00:37:09.960 --> 00:37:13.800
<v Speaker 1>him and refused to cancel the policies. When Phil tried

710
00:37:13.800 --> 00:37:17.239
<v Speaker 1>to lobby the two insurance companies holding the policies US

711
00:37:17.320 --> 00:37:20.960
<v Speaker 1>Double A and Northwest Mutual to cancel them on his behalf,

712
00:37:21.280 --> 00:37:24.679
<v Speaker 1>they refused. The companies told Phil they were not authorized

713
00:37:24.719 --> 00:37:27.760
<v Speaker 1>to cancel the policies since Nancy owned them and kept

714
00:37:27.800 --> 00:37:30.920
<v Speaker 1>paying the premiums. He responded by sending them a letter

715
00:37:30.920 --> 00:37:34.159
<v Speaker 1>which read quote thoroughly examined my death for evidence of

716
00:37:34.199 --> 00:37:37.039
<v Speaker 1>foul play, even if on the surface the cause would

717
00:37:37.039 --> 00:37:39.480
<v Speaker 1>appear natural or accidental end quote.

718
00:37:40.320 --> 00:37:42.320
<v Speaker 2>Well, no wonder the guys getting help for anxiety and

719
00:37:42.360 --> 00:37:47.079
<v Speaker 2>depression if he really did receive these two notes. That's horrifying.

720
00:37:47.599 --> 00:37:50.840
<v Speaker 2>And you do have someone saying, hey, there is a

721
00:37:50.880 --> 00:37:54.199
<v Speaker 2>plan in motion to kill you. I would have quite

722
00:37:54.239 --> 00:37:57.599
<v Speaker 2>a bit of anxiety depression in paranoia as well, and

723
00:37:57.679 --> 00:38:01.639
<v Speaker 2>think God fills out there getting help. It's really interesting

724
00:38:01.679 --> 00:38:04.480
<v Speaker 2>when he does reach out to her, he's pretty desperate,

725
00:38:04.840 --> 00:38:08.119
<v Speaker 2>demanding that she dropped these life insurance policies, and he

726
00:38:08.159 --> 00:38:12.199
<v Speaker 2>even mentions eventually, if you hire good assassins, right, how

727
00:38:12.199 --> 00:38:17.800
<v Speaker 2>would I avoid getting murdered? Really sad and the way

728
00:38:17.840 --> 00:38:21.719
<v Speaker 2>that everything's kind of dissolving in regards to his feeling

729
00:38:21.800 --> 00:38:25.039
<v Speaker 2>of safety because of his ex wife. But once you

730
00:38:25.119 --> 00:38:27.599
<v Speaker 2>receive a written letter, knowing that he's on to you,

731
00:38:28.159 --> 00:38:32.559
<v Speaker 2>and knowing that there's been this conversation with life insurance

732
00:38:32.599 --> 00:38:35.559
<v Speaker 2>policies and things like that, don't you think you need

733
00:38:35.599 --> 00:38:38.519
<v Speaker 2>to kind of do it about face and leave the

734
00:38:38.639 --> 00:38:41.920
<v Speaker 2>plan because he's on to you. Right, He's already called

735
00:38:41.960 --> 00:38:45.599
<v Speaker 2>you out for planning his murder in writing. Wouldn't you

736
00:38:45.639 --> 00:38:47.639
<v Speaker 2>stop at that point and be like, oh gosh, we

737
00:38:47.679 --> 00:38:48.760
<v Speaker 2>got to do something different.

738
00:38:49.519 --> 00:38:51.960
<v Speaker 3>Think about who you deal with, ash.

739
00:38:51.719 --> 00:38:54.199
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yes, right, that's true.

740
00:38:54.239 --> 00:38:56.239
<v Speaker 2>I deal with some dark people in my own life.

741
00:38:56.239 --> 00:38:57.079
<v Speaker 4>That you got a battle.

742
00:38:57.119 --> 00:39:01.039
<v Speaker 2>But that's true, and when they're pretty determined to cause

743
00:39:01.079 --> 00:39:03.199
<v Speaker 2>a problem, they stick with a plan.

744
00:39:03.320 --> 00:39:04.320
<v Speaker 4>That's very true.

745
00:39:04.880 --> 00:39:08.000
<v Speaker 1>But it's worth noting that Phil received the original letter

746
00:39:08.119 --> 00:39:11.199
<v Speaker 1>in nineteen ninety nine and started confronting Nancy about it,

747
00:39:11.239 --> 00:39:14.360
<v Speaker 1>and did not actually wind up dead until four years later,

748
00:39:14.760 --> 00:39:16.519
<v Speaker 1>So it could be a case where they really were

749
00:39:16.559 --> 00:39:19.119
<v Speaker 1>planning it back then but then realized, oh, Phil's on

750
00:39:19.159 --> 00:39:21.039
<v Speaker 1>to us, we'd better cool down for a while, but

751
00:39:21.079 --> 00:39:23.800
<v Speaker 1>then decided to do it again after enough time it passed.

752
00:39:25.239 --> 00:39:28.280
<v Speaker 3>How long were these policies in effect for did they

753
00:39:28.280 --> 00:39:29.679
<v Speaker 3>have an expiration Robin?

754
00:39:29.960 --> 00:39:31.480
<v Speaker 1>I don't think so. I think they were on him

755
00:39:31.519 --> 00:39:34.320
<v Speaker 1>until he died. I mean they divorced. I think it

756
00:39:34.360 --> 00:39:37.000
<v Speaker 1>was a nineteen ninety two and they stayed on him

757
00:39:37.039 --> 00:39:39.159
<v Speaker 1>for over ten years, so I don't think there was

758
00:39:39.199 --> 00:39:40.159
<v Speaker 1>an expiration date.

759
00:39:40.880 --> 00:39:43.960
<v Speaker 3>Interesting that her husband was in the Special Forces too.

760
00:39:44.400 --> 00:39:46.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, like not just the Air Force, but Special Forces.

761
00:39:48.440 --> 00:39:52.039
<v Speaker 3>According to Tracy, Phil's paranoia about Nancy is what caused

762
00:39:52.119 --> 00:39:55.360
<v Speaker 3>him to start showing symptoms of depression and anxiety and

763
00:39:55.400 --> 00:39:59.360
<v Speaker 3>seek psychiatric treatment. Well, Tracy thought the anonymous letter was

764
00:39:59.400 --> 00:40:02.119
<v Speaker 3>a piece of evidence which supported the idea that her

765
00:40:02.199 --> 00:40:06.000
<v Speaker 3>husband was the victim of foul play. Investigators suspected that

766
00:40:06.039 --> 00:40:09.239
<v Speaker 3>Phil had actually typed up the letter himself and fabricated

767
00:40:09.239 --> 00:40:12.199
<v Speaker 3>the entire threat from his ex wife. They found it

768
00:40:12.199 --> 00:40:14.440
<v Speaker 3>odd that Phil never made any attempt to bring the

769
00:40:14.519 --> 00:40:17.800
<v Speaker 3>letter to the police, but Tracy maintained that because Phil

770
00:40:17.880 --> 00:40:20.880
<v Speaker 3>held a top secret security clearance, he had to follow

771
00:40:20.920 --> 00:40:24.239
<v Speaker 3>a specific chain of command and notify his own superiors

772
00:40:24.280 --> 00:40:28.039
<v Speaker 3>about what was happening before he involved any outside agencies.

773
00:40:28.880 --> 00:40:31.840
<v Speaker 3>Tracy claimed that Phil did show the letter to his superiors,

774
00:40:31.840 --> 00:40:34.760
<v Speaker 3>but they seemed to dismiss the idea that it represented

775
00:40:34.800 --> 00:40:38.360
<v Speaker 3>a real threat against him. No conclusive evidence was ever

776
00:40:38.440 --> 00:40:40.679
<v Speaker 3>found to prove that Phil was the author of the letter,

777
00:40:41.079 --> 00:40:44.199
<v Speaker 3>and unfortunately, it was never tested for DNA or fingerprints.

778
00:40:44.920 --> 00:40:48.400
<v Speaker 3>When questioned, Nancy claimed that both she and Donald had alibis,

779
00:40:48.480 --> 00:40:51.000
<v Speaker 3>which proved they were at work in Florida on the

780
00:40:51.079 --> 00:40:54.119
<v Speaker 3>date that Phil was killed. Nancy also turned down the

781
00:40:54.119 --> 00:40:57.239
<v Speaker 3>police's request to take a polygraph, and since Donald held

782
00:40:57.239 --> 00:41:00.000
<v Speaker 3>a top secret security clearance, he would not have been

783
00:41:00.079 --> 00:41:02.760
<v Speaker 3>allowed to take a police polygraph even if he wanted.

784
00:41:03.800 --> 00:41:06.920
<v Speaker 3>At one point, Nazi's lawyers stated that he believed Phil's

785
00:41:06.920 --> 00:41:09.480
<v Speaker 3>death was a result of attempting to fake an abduction

786
00:41:09.920 --> 00:41:11.679
<v Speaker 3>in order to make it look like his ex wife

787
00:41:11.719 --> 00:41:12.760
<v Speaker 3>had harmed him.

788
00:41:13.199 --> 00:41:15.559
<v Speaker 2>I do believe that Phil would have had to go

789
00:41:15.639 --> 00:41:18.079
<v Speaker 2>through his own chain of command. That's a really important

790
00:41:18.119 --> 00:41:21.639
<v Speaker 2>thing in the military. They get really upset when you

791
00:41:21.760 --> 00:41:25.880
<v Speaker 2>jump over a person in your chain of command. Right,

792
00:41:25.920 --> 00:41:28.840
<v Speaker 2>you take an issue to your supervising officer, and then

793
00:41:28.880 --> 00:41:31.159
<v Speaker 2>they handle it. If they can't handle it, they go

794
00:41:31.239 --> 00:41:32.079
<v Speaker 2>above them.

795
00:41:31.920 --> 00:41:35.159
<v Speaker 4>So they help escalate the issue.

796
00:41:35.239 --> 00:41:37.639
<v Speaker 2>So here, I don't think it's crazy if Phil said, Hey,

797
00:41:37.639 --> 00:41:39.920
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to go to my commanding officer and show him.

798
00:41:39.800 --> 00:41:41.840
<v Speaker 4>That this is what I received.

799
00:41:41.960 --> 00:41:44.760
<v Speaker 2>Right, But then when you look at this idea that

800
00:41:44.800 --> 00:41:48.000
<v Speaker 2>he would have written up the letters himself, I don't know,

801
00:41:48.239 --> 00:41:52.840
<v Speaker 2>that's pretty crazy. Yes, there's a lot of trauma dealing

802
00:41:52.880 --> 00:41:56.599
<v Speaker 2>with a volatile ex wife, and I can see where

803
00:41:57.519 --> 00:41:59.920
<v Speaker 2>he might feel desperate, like I need to do something

804
00:42:00.079 --> 00:42:01.639
<v Speaker 2>to get away from her and maybe get her to

805
00:42:01.719 --> 00:42:03.440
<v Speaker 2>drop these life insurance policies.

806
00:42:03.960 --> 00:42:07.679
<v Speaker 4>But overall, it just doesn't seem.

807
00:42:07.039 --> 00:42:11.280
<v Speaker 2>Like someone who's so I don't know, so stable in

808
00:42:11.320 --> 00:42:14.079
<v Speaker 2>his career and continuing his education all these things that

809
00:42:14.119 --> 00:42:17.920
<v Speaker 2>he's going to keep slipping in these major ways, that's

810
00:42:17.960 --> 00:42:21.440
<v Speaker 2>pretty elaborate to go after your ex wife by faking

811
00:42:22.039 --> 00:42:23.280
<v Speaker 2>death threats to yourself.

812
00:42:24.280 --> 00:42:27.400
<v Speaker 1>And let's also remember I'm reiterating again, the letters originally

813
00:42:27.440 --> 00:42:30.559
<v Speaker 1>appeared in nineteen ninety nine, and Phil didn't die until

814
00:42:30.559 --> 00:42:33.079
<v Speaker 1>two thousand and three. So is he really like typing

815
00:42:33.159 --> 00:42:35.800
<v Speaker 1>up all these letters and faking this for over four

816
00:42:35.880 --> 00:42:40.239
<v Speaker 1>years before he decided to end his own life well.

817
00:42:40.280 --> 00:42:43.440
<v Speaker 1>Two months after the accidents, Tracy filed a civil lawsuit

818
00:42:43.480 --> 00:42:46.239
<v Speaker 1>in hopes of preventing Nancy from collecting on Phil's one

819
00:42:46.280 --> 00:42:49.719
<v Speaker 1>million dollar life insurance policies. Nancy was named as a

820
00:42:49.760 --> 00:42:53.199
<v Speaker 1>defendant in addition to the two insurance companies US Double

821
00:42:53.239 --> 00:42:56.199
<v Speaker 1>A and Northwest Mutual, as Tracy believed they had a

822
00:42:56.280 --> 00:43:00.239
<v Speaker 1>legal obligation to cancel the policies after being informed the

823
00:43:00.280 --> 00:43:04.360
<v Speaker 1>threat to Phil's life. Phil and Nancy's son, Jeffreyschue, was

824
00:43:04.440 --> 00:43:07.159
<v Speaker 1>named as a third party defendant in the lawsuit, as

825
00:43:07.159 --> 00:43:10.320
<v Speaker 1>Phil had removed Jeffrey as the secondary beneficiary from his

826
00:43:10.440 --> 00:43:14.079
<v Speaker 1>will only five days before his death and replaced him

827
00:43:14.079 --> 00:43:18.239
<v Speaker 1>with Tracy's sister. According to Tracy, Phil was concerned about

828
00:43:18.280 --> 00:43:21.159
<v Speaker 1>Jeffrey's ability to manage money, as he had gone through

829
00:43:21.159 --> 00:43:24.360
<v Speaker 1>a bankruptcy the previous year, which was partially brought on

830
00:43:24.480 --> 00:43:27.760
<v Speaker 1>by gambling debts. Jeffrey was also in the midst of

831
00:43:27.760 --> 00:43:31.039
<v Speaker 1>his second marriage, which Phil did not believe have much stability,

832
00:43:31.320 --> 00:43:34.400
<v Speaker 1>and he feared that any inheritance his son received could

833
00:43:34.400 --> 00:43:38.000
<v Speaker 1>be squandered in a divorce settlement. When Nancy was given

834
00:43:38.039 --> 00:43:41.039
<v Speaker 1>a videotaped deposition as part of the lawsuit and asked

835
00:43:41.079 --> 00:43:43.599
<v Speaker 1>about her re ex husband's death, she pleaded the Fifth

836
00:43:43.639 --> 00:43:47.760
<v Speaker 1>Amendment on over twenty questions in order to avoid self incrimination.

837
00:43:48.719 --> 00:43:51.280
<v Speaker 1>It was never established if Jeffrey found out he had

838
00:43:51.280 --> 00:43:53.880
<v Speaker 1>been removed from his father's will prior to his death,

839
00:43:54.239 --> 00:43:57.920
<v Speaker 1>as he filed an affid David invoking his Fifth Amendent

840
00:43:57.920 --> 00:44:02.119
<v Speaker 1>privilege and declined to speak with law enforcements and military investigators.

841
00:44:02.639 --> 00:44:05.559
<v Speaker 1>In June of two thousand and eight, Tracy civil lawsuit

842
00:44:05.599 --> 00:44:08.039
<v Speaker 1>was ready to go to trial in Kendall County Court

843
00:44:08.039 --> 00:44:12.239
<v Speaker 1>of Law, but by this point Nancy, Jeffrey, and Northwestern

844
00:44:12.320 --> 00:44:15.599
<v Speaker 1>Mutual have been dropped as defendants as one million dollar

845
00:44:15.679 --> 00:44:19.079
<v Speaker 1>settlement agreement have been made between them. US double A

846
00:44:19.280 --> 00:44:22.119
<v Speaker 1>was the only remaining defendant and they were still facing

847
00:44:22.159 --> 00:44:25.880
<v Speaker 1>potential liability issues for refusing to cancel their life insurance

848
00:44:25.920 --> 00:44:30.360
<v Speaker 1>policy on phil. Halfway through the trial, Judge Bill Palmer

849
00:44:30.400 --> 00:44:33.519
<v Speaker 1>suddenly dismissed the jury after announcing that the two parties

850
00:44:33.559 --> 00:44:35.679
<v Speaker 1>had reached an agreement and he could make a ruling

851
00:44:35.760 --> 00:44:38.960
<v Speaker 1>about the case on his own. In the end, Judge

852
00:44:38.960 --> 00:44:41.760
<v Speaker 1>Palmer ruled that US double A had done nothing wrong

853
00:44:42.000 --> 00:44:45.400
<v Speaker 1>by refusing to cancel Colonel Shoe's insurance policy and were

854
00:44:45.440 --> 00:44:50.159
<v Speaker 1>not liable for damages. But he also surprised everyone by stating, quote,

855
00:44:50.320 --> 00:44:53.719
<v Speaker 1>the evidence considered by the court substantiates of finding that

856
00:44:53.840 --> 00:44:57.400
<v Speaker 1>Colonel Philip Schue was murdered. The Court therefore finds that

857
00:44:57.440 --> 00:45:00.519
<v Speaker 1>the April sixteenth, two thousand and three death of Colonel

858
00:45:00.559 --> 00:45:05.079
<v Speaker 1>Philip Schue was a hobbs hide end quote My goodness.

859
00:45:05.280 --> 00:45:10.679
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So here's what's really interesting. Tracy and Phil changed

860
00:45:10.760 --> 00:45:15.599
<v Speaker 2>life insurance policies to have the beneficiary be her sister

861
00:45:15.760 --> 00:45:18.679
<v Speaker 2>in the event that Tracy also is deceased and not

862
00:45:18.880 --> 00:45:23.000
<v Speaker 2>his son. I can see where Jeffrey being removed is

863
00:45:23.039 --> 00:45:26.480
<v Speaker 2>not wild, because he's showing these signs of just being

864
00:45:27.079 --> 00:45:32.320
<v Speaker 2>not stable really in this midst of trauma and turmoil himself,

865
00:45:32.360 --> 00:45:34.079
<v Speaker 2>and I can see where Dad would take him out.

866
00:45:35.119 --> 00:45:38.039
<v Speaker 2>But you know, I don't blame Nancy and her husband

867
00:45:38.079 --> 00:45:40.440
<v Speaker 2>for not wanting to take a polygraph or for really

868
00:45:40.519 --> 00:45:43.440
<v Speaker 2>pleading the fifth either. She doesn't have anything to gain

869
00:45:44.000 --> 00:45:47.880
<v Speaker 2>or to lose in this whole element because she didn't

870
00:45:47.880 --> 00:45:52.639
<v Speaker 2>do anything wrong on paper, she paid a premium, the

871
00:45:52.679 --> 00:45:56.320
<v Speaker 2>man who is the deceased is dead, and now she

872
00:45:56.400 --> 00:45:59.280
<v Speaker 2>gets to collect the life insurance policy. It's pretty darn

873
00:45:59.360 --> 00:46:02.719
<v Speaker 2>simple happens. I did what I was supposed to do

874
00:46:02.800 --> 00:46:06.239
<v Speaker 2>by paying it, he died, I get the money. Anything

875
00:46:06.320 --> 00:46:08.880
<v Speaker 2>she says does not work in her favor. She doesn't

876
00:46:08.880 --> 00:46:12.760
<v Speaker 2>supposedly know anything about it. So on the surface, as

877
00:46:13.559 --> 00:46:18.920
<v Speaker 2>dysfunctional as their divorce was and continued relationship was, what

878
00:46:19.000 --> 00:46:22.679
<v Speaker 2>does she gain by saying anything in that deposition. Worst

879
00:46:22.679 --> 00:46:26.119
<v Speaker 2>thing that happens is they have to prove that she

880
00:46:26.480 --> 00:46:29.119
<v Speaker 2>likely killed her husband before they take her money away.

881
00:46:29.440 --> 00:46:32.440
<v Speaker 2>Otherwise she's sitting pretty just keeping her mouth shut.

882
00:46:32.960 --> 00:46:35.880
<v Speaker 3>It just looks so sketchy that she's pleading the fifth

883
00:46:35.920 --> 00:46:37.760
<v Speaker 3>on this, and then when you add her son is

884
00:46:37.800 --> 00:46:40.880
<v Speaker 3>also pleading the fifth. I know that you have a

885
00:46:40.960 --> 00:46:44.239
<v Speaker 3>right in the American court not to incriminate yourself but

886
00:46:45.079 --> 00:46:47.960
<v Speaker 3>what would you be incriminated on? And I get your point,

887
00:46:48.000 --> 00:46:50.880
<v Speaker 3>ash for sure that like opening your mouth, you know,

888
00:46:50.920 --> 00:46:53.159
<v Speaker 3>you could open a door to any number of things,

889
00:46:53.239 --> 00:46:56.960
<v Speaker 3>and a good attorney can cut into your words that

890
00:46:57.039 --> 00:47:00.840
<v Speaker 3>you're saying and pick them apart and maybe weed out

891
00:47:00.840 --> 00:47:03.159
<v Speaker 3>some deception in there or weed out some things that

892
00:47:03.280 --> 00:47:05.679
<v Speaker 3>don't look good. So it's better to just say nothing

893
00:47:05.719 --> 00:47:08.119
<v Speaker 3>at all. But it just it always looks sketchy when

894
00:47:08.119 --> 00:47:08.719
<v Speaker 3>people do it.

895
00:47:09.519 --> 00:47:12.079
<v Speaker 1>And obviously one of the most infamous examples was Mark

896
00:47:12.119 --> 00:47:14.679
<v Speaker 1>Furman and the OJH. Simpson trial, where he planed the

897
00:47:14.679 --> 00:47:17.239
<v Speaker 1>fifth on every question, even the question did you plan

898
00:47:17.320 --> 00:47:20.360
<v Speaker 1>any evidence or plant the bloody glove against OJ Simpson?

899
00:47:20.599 --> 00:47:22.360
<v Speaker 1>And because he didn't answer, a lot of the jury

900
00:47:22.400 --> 00:47:25.199
<v Speaker 1>members thought that the whole evidence planting thing was true.

901
00:47:25.840 --> 00:47:28.440
<v Speaker 3>Don't they pretty much like if they're going to plead

902
00:47:28.480 --> 00:47:30.320
<v Speaker 3>the fifth at all, don't they pretty much do and

903
00:47:30.400 --> 00:47:32.360
<v Speaker 3>across the board plead the fifth?

904
00:47:33.079 --> 00:47:36.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think I think normally a defense attorney or

905
00:47:36.440 --> 00:47:37.519
<v Speaker 2>an attorney would.

906
00:47:37.280 --> 00:47:39.239
<v Speaker 4>Tell you.

907
00:47:38.599 --> 00:47:40.840
<v Speaker 2>Need to just plead the fifth and if you're gonna

908
00:47:40.880 --> 00:47:42.519
<v Speaker 2>do that, you do it for everything so that it

909
00:47:42.559 --> 00:47:45.079
<v Speaker 2>doesn't look suspicious when that one question you plead the

910
00:47:45.079 --> 00:47:48.199
<v Speaker 2>fifth on but you've been open and transparent about everything else,

911
00:47:48.440 --> 00:47:51.199
<v Speaker 2>because then it does have that indication of guild. If

912
00:47:51.239 --> 00:47:54.119
<v Speaker 2>you simply say basically, I'm not engaging, which is what

913
00:47:54.239 --> 00:47:57.239
<v Speaker 2>Nancy did here. If you're just not going to engage,

914
00:47:57.760 --> 00:48:00.960
<v Speaker 2>then you just weren't interested in engaging, right, And again

915
00:48:01.039 --> 00:48:03.159
<v Speaker 2>you're keeping your mouth shut so that nothing.

916
00:48:02.880 --> 00:48:03.920
<v Speaker 4>Could be used against you.

917
00:48:04.280 --> 00:48:06.800
<v Speaker 2>So I think it's pretty consistent you either start that

918
00:48:06.880 --> 00:48:09.400
<v Speaker 2>way and say I'm not going to answer anything, or

919
00:48:09.440 --> 00:48:11.360
<v Speaker 2>if you're going to invoke that on one.

920
00:48:11.239 --> 00:48:13.360
<v Speaker 4>Question, it would look quite bizarre.

921
00:48:14.920 --> 00:48:18.559
<v Speaker 3>Well, Judge Palmer requested that Shoe's death certificate officially be

922
00:48:18.639 --> 00:48:22.719
<v Speaker 3>changed from suicide to homicide. Kendall County officials refused to

923
00:48:22.719 --> 00:48:25.400
<v Speaker 3>do so, and they did not believe that Palmer had

924
00:48:25.440 --> 00:48:29.440
<v Speaker 3>the authority to make that determination. Months later, the Texas

925
00:48:29.480 --> 00:48:33.159
<v Speaker 3>Attorney General ruled that Shoe's death certificate would not have

926
00:48:33.280 --> 00:48:35.519
<v Speaker 3>to be changed, so his cause of death is still

927
00:48:35.519 --> 00:48:39.039
<v Speaker 3>officially listed as a suicide to this day. In March

928
00:48:39.079 --> 00:48:42.239
<v Speaker 3>two thousand and nine, the story would receive national exposure

929
00:48:42.639 --> 00:48:45.480
<v Speaker 3>when the TV show forty eight Hours aired an episode

930
00:48:45.519 --> 00:48:49.840
<v Speaker 3>titled The Curious Case of Colonel Shoe. Shortly Thereafter, Tracy

931
00:48:49.920 --> 00:48:52.880
<v Speaker 3>was contacted by a witness who'd watched the show and

932
00:48:52.920 --> 00:48:55.559
<v Speaker 3>thought they might have an important piece of new information.

933
00:48:56.239 --> 00:48:58.920
<v Speaker 3>On the morning Colonel's shoe was killed. This witness said

934
00:48:58.920 --> 00:49:01.159
<v Speaker 3>that they'd been driving on a rural road leading to

935
00:49:01.199 --> 00:49:04.559
<v Speaker 3>Interstate ten, which Phil normally would have taken on his

936
00:49:04.679 --> 00:49:08.480
<v Speaker 3>route to work. They remembered seeing Phil's mercury tracer off

937
00:49:08.519 --> 00:49:10.519
<v Speaker 3>the side of the road, and a blue van with

938
00:49:10.599 --> 00:49:14.559
<v Speaker 3>tinted windows was parked directly behind it. What was particularly

939
00:49:14.599 --> 00:49:17.679
<v Speaker 3>interesting about this location is that the ground had a

940
00:49:17.760 --> 00:49:21.639
<v Speaker 3>natural deposit of calichet, a sedimentary rock which produces a

941
00:49:21.679 --> 00:49:25.519
<v Speaker 3>white clay substance. According to the autopsy report, at the

942
00:49:25.559 --> 00:49:27.960
<v Speaker 3>time Phil was found, the bottom of his boots were

943
00:49:28.000 --> 00:49:32.000
<v Speaker 3>caked with mud and a white powdery substance, but investigators

944
00:49:32.039 --> 00:49:35.639
<v Speaker 3>never bothered to analyze it. The forty eight Hours episode

945
00:49:35.719 --> 00:49:39.400
<v Speaker 3>contained interviews with Lieutenant Roger Anderson of the Kendall County

946
00:49:39.400 --> 00:49:42.400
<v Speaker 3>Shriff's Office, who'd been the top ranking official at the

947
00:49:42.440 --> 00:49:46.639
<v Speaker 3>crash scene that morning and became an advocate for Tracy Schue.

948
00:49:46.679 --> 00:49:50.239
<v Speaker 3>He openly acknowledged that the investigation was mishandled and that

949
00:49:50.280 --> 00:49:52.719
<v Speaker 3>he lost control of the scene as there was a

950
00:49:52.800 --> 00:49:56.719
<v Speaker 3>jurisdictional beef between all different law enforcement agencies who showed

951
00:49:56.800 --> 00:50:01.119
<v Speaker 3>up there, including the Kendall County Shriff's Office, Warrene Police Department,

952
00:50:01.400 --> 00:50:04.760
<v Speaker 3>and the Texas State Police. Since Colonel Shoe's death was

953
00:50:04.800 --> 00:50:07.719
<v Speaker 3>not believed to be a homicide, his vehicle was never

954
00:50:07.760 --> 00:50:11.280
<v Speaker 3>possessed as a potential murder scene, an important evidence may

955
00:50:11.280 --> 00:50:15.039
<v Speaker 3>have either been lost or never collected. Tracy has claimed

956
00:50:15.039 --> 00:50:17.719
<v Speaker 3>that even though Kendall County authorities have asked her to

957
00:50:17.719 --> 00:50:20.320
<v Speaker 3>pick up her husband's wrecked car from the impound yard

958
00:50:20.400 --> 00:50:24.119
<v Speaker 3>on several occasions, she always refused to do so because

959
00:50:24.159 --> 00:50:27.599
<v Speaker 3>she believes the vehicle is a crime scene. After Tracy

960
00:50:27.760 --> 00:50:31.039
<v Speaker 3>changed her mind about having him cremated, Phil was finally

961
00:50:31.079 --> 00:50:35.719
<v Speaker 3>buried at Arlington National Cemetery with full military honors, But

962
00:50:35.840 --> 00:50:39.119
<v Speaker 3>in a tragic PostScript to this story, his son Jeffrey,

963
00:50:39.239 --> 00:50:42.920
<v Speaker 3>unexpectedly passed away in October twenty fifteen at the age

964
00:50:42.920 --> 00:50:46.840
<v Speaker 3>of forty five following a brief illness. While Colonel Shoe's

965
00:50:46.880 --> 00:50:50.159
<v Speaker 3>death has never officially been reclassified as a homicide, his

966
00:50:50.280 --> 00:50:53.679
<v Speaker 3>loved ones are still searching for answers and the official

967
00:50:53.719 --> 00:50:57.320
<v Speaker 3>circumstances of what happened remained unclear, So.

968
00:50:57.239 --> 00:50:59.639
<v Speaker 1>I guess you could say the path went chili.

969
00:51:00.599 --> 00:51:03.239
<v Speaker 2>This is one of those cases where you see exactly

970
00:51:03.400 --> 00:51:07.119
<v Speaker 2>what we harp on. When you don't investigate properly, you

971
00:51:07.239 --> 00:51:10.079
<v Speaker 2>get one shot and one shot only. And so when

972
00:51:10.159 --> 00:51:12.159
<v Speaker 2>they arrived on that scene and they declared this is

973
00:51:12.159 --> 00:51:15.519
<v Speaker 2>a suicide, and then they're basically telling his wife come

974
00:51:15.519 --> 00:51:17.760
<v Speaker 2>get the car. We don't need to do any further

975
00:51:18.159 --> 00:51:21.360
<v Speaker 2>exploration of this crime scene or this scene. You can

976
00:51:21.400 --> 00:51:25.519
<v Speaker 2>come get all of his things. They blew it, even

977
00:51:25.559 --> 00:51:26.400
<v Speaker 2>if it really was.

978
00:51:26.440 --> 00:51:30.039
<v Speaker 4>Ultimately a suicide. We always talk about how you approach.

979
00:51:29.679 --> 00:51:33.480
<v Speaker 2>The scene as a homicide, especially when you look at

980
00:51:33.519 --> 00:51:34.199
<v Speaker 2>this case.

981
00:51:34.760 --> 00:51:36.760
<v Speaker 4>No one would have showed up on that scene and.

982
00:51:36.719 --> 00:51:41.840
<v Speaker 2>Said this is a usual, typical, expected type of suicide.

983
00:51:42.119 --> 00:51:45.880
<v Speaker 4>You would say, what the heck happened here? It's bizarre.

984
00:51:46.039 --> 00:51:48.960
<v Speaker 2>You have missing nipples, a missing digit of a finger,

985
00:51:49.360 --> 00:51:52.360
<v Speaker 2>his wallet and dog tags are gone, he's driving away

986
00:51:52.360 --> 00:51:55.840
<v Speaker 2>from his place of work, he never know he has

987
00:51:55.880 --> 00:51:58.679
<v Speaker 2>a gash in his chest, all these things that seem

988
00:51:58.920 --> 00:52:04.320
<v Speaker 2>so just like a movie. Why would you ever approach

989
00:52:04.320 --> 00:52:07.159
<v Speaker 2>as anything? But we need to have a very very

990
00:52:07.199 --> 00:52:11.920
<v Speaker 2>thorough investigation here and assume it's a homicide, photograph everything,

991
00:52:12.159 --> 00:52:14.559
<v Speaker 2>test everything, and at the end, if it really does

992
00:52:14.599 --> 00:52:18.400
<v Speaker 2>appear to be a suicide, it's a suicide. But it's

993
00:52:18.480 --> 00:52:21.360
<v Speaker 2>like they called it, and they pushed everything out aside,

994
00:52:21.400 --> 00:52:23.960
<v Speaker 2>and they lost that chance to investigate. And I think

995
00:52:24.039 --> 00:52:27.880
<v Speaker 2>that's why Tracy was so upset. She got a call

996
00:52:28.079 --> 00:52:31.119
<v Speaker 2>that her husband had completed suicide and that he was dead,

997
00:52:31.519 --> 00:52:35.719
<v Speaker 2>and then she gets information later of all these bizarre

998
00:52:35.760 --> 00:52:38.400
<v Speaker 2>things that occurred, and she said, had I known that,

999
00:52:39.119 --> 00:52:42.320
<v Speaker 2>I would have questioned the suicide even more from the start,

1000
00:52:42.719 --> 00:52:45.760
<v Speaker 2>Why didn't anybody else? And so I really feel for

1001
00:52:45.800 --> 00:52:48.280
<v Speaker 2>her where she's just refusing to let go of this

1002
00:52:48.400 --> 00:52:52.199
<v Speaker 2>idea of someone look deeper into this because it's so bizarre.

1003
00:52:52.840 --> 00:52:54.760
<v Speaker 2>Why didn't anybody else when they arrived on the scene

1004
00:52:54.800 --> 00:52:55.880
<v Speaker 2>have that same attitude.

1005
00:52:56.480 --> 00:53:01.400
<v Speaker 3>I think it's so tenant telling that Lieutenant Roger Roger Anderson,

1006
00:53:02.079 --> 00:53:05.760
<v Speaker 3>Uh yeah, yeah, as it Yeah, the Lieutenant Roger Anderson,

1007
00:53:05.800 --> 00:53:08.880
<v Speaker 3>who was the highest ranking official on the scene, believes

1008
00:53:08.920 --> 00:53:12.480
<v Speaker 3>that it was mishandled and has been an advocate for Tracy.

1009
00:53:13.079 --> 00:53:16.599
<v Speaker 3>I think that is really really telling. And the fact

1010
00:53:16.639 --> 00:53:18.800
<v Speaker 3>that they were just so quick to assume that this

1011
00:53:18.960 --> 00:53:21.639
<v Speaker 3>was a suicide and not investigate it as a murder

1012
00:53:21.840 --> 00:53:24.480
<v Speaker 3>and then let the evidence lead where it may is

1013
00:53:24.840 --> 00:53:25.679
<v Speaker 3>kind of shocking.

1014
00:53:26.639 --> 00:53:28.599
<v Speaker 1>And you think that at the very least they would say, Hey,

1015
00:53:28.639 --> 00:53:31.000
<v Speaker 1>his wallet and dog tags and his nipples are missing

1016
00:53:31.000 --> 00:53:33.199
<v Speaker 1>and there's no cutting tool, Let's perform a search of

1017
00:53:33.239 --> 00:53:36.039
<v Speaker 1>the area of like the wooded areas, just to see

1018
00:53:36.079 --> 00:53:37.760
<v Speaker 1>if we can find them, and if we do, we

1019
00:53:37.800 --> 00:53:40.960
<v Speaker 1>can conclusively prove if this was a homicide or a suicide.

1020
00:53:41.320 --> 00:53:43.440
<v Speaker 1>But the fact that they didn't even bother to do

1021
00:53:43.519 --> 00:53:46.719
<v Speaker 1>that is pretty frustrating. So, like I mentioned in the intro,

1022
00:53:46.880 --> 00:53:49.159
<v Speaker 1>we've covered a lot of cases in which a victim's

1023
00:53:49.159 --> 00:53:51.480
<v Speaker 1>death was ruled to be a suicide, but their loved

1024
00:53:51.480 --> 00:53:53.960
<v Speaker 1>ones were adamant that foul play had taken place. But

1025
00:53:54.039 --> 00:53:56.920
<v Speaker 1>the circumstances of this one are a bit more complex.

1026
00:53:57.679 --> 00:54:00.719
<v Speaker 1>Regardless of what actually happened to Colonel Phillips Shoe, the

1027
00:54:00.760 --> 00:54:03.920
<v Speaker 1>one indisputable fact about this case is that his exact

1028
00:54:03.960 --> 00:54:06.920
<v Speaker 1>cause of death was a car crash. While the authorities

1029
00:54:06.960 --> 00:54:09.480
<v Speaker 1>believed that Shoe inflicted a bunch of wounds on himself

1030
00:54:09.519 --> 00:54:13.239
<v Speaker 1>before intentionally crashing his vehicle as part of an elaborate suicide.

1031
00:54:13.519 --> 00:54:15.360
<v Speaker 1>His loved ones believed that he was in the midst

1032
00:54:15.400 --> 00:54:18.000
<v Speaker 1>of being tortured by a third party and managed to

1033
00:54:18.159 --> 00:54:20.719
<v Speaker 1>escape and flee the scene, but wound up getting into

1034
00:54:20.760 --> 00:54:23.679
<v Speaker 1>a fatal accident before he could get help. Even if

1035
00:54:23.719 --> 00:54:26.960
<v Speaker 1>conclusive evidence was found to prove that someone held Colonel

1036
00:54:27.000 --> 00:54:30.119
<v Speaker 1>Shoe captive and tortured him that morning, could they be

1037
00:54:30.280 --> 00:54:32.800
<v Speaker 1>charged with murder? I mean, I'm sure they would be

1038
00:54:32.840 --> 00:54:36.400
<v Speaker 1>charged with something, But Shoe's death technically took place while

1039
00:54:36.440 --> 00:54:38.679
<v Speaker 1>he was behind the wheel of his own car, and

1040
00:54:38.719 --> 00:54:41.559
<v Speaker 1>while he was obviously at a diminished capacity because of

1041
00:54:41.559 --> 00:54:44.400
<v Speaker 1>his ordeal. I'm sure this would be a pretty complicated

1042
00:54:44.440 --> 00:54:47.280
<v Speaker 1>legal situation if a suspect was ever brought to trial.

1043
00:54:48.119 --> 00:54:50.679
<v Speaker 1>But while Tracy Chue and everyone who cared about Phil

1044
00:54:50.760 --> 00:54:52.960
<v Speaker 1>want justice for his death, I'm sure one of their

1045
00:54:52.960 --> 00:54:56.199
<v Speaker 1>most important priorities is to clear his name and debunk

1046
00:54:56.280 --> 00:54:59.519
<v Speaker 1>the official cover story that he killed himself. This was

1047
00:54:59.559 --> 00:55:03.920
<v Speaker 1>a particular, regularly horrible tragedy for Phil's parents, Bruce and Miriamshau,

1048
00:55:04.119 --> 00:55:06.719
<v Speaker 1>who both lived until their late nineties and had to

1049
00:55:06.840 --> 00:55:09.519
<v Speaker 1>endure the loss of all four of their sons. In

1050
00:55:09.519 --> 00:55:12.840
<v Speaker 1>addition to losing Phil, they lost an infant son named Stephen,

1051
00:55:12.960 --> 00:55:16.280
<v Speaker 1>back in nineteen forty six, their oldest son, Norman when

1052
00:55:16.320 --> 00:55:18.440
<v Speaker 1>he passed away in nineteen ninety nine at the age

1053
00:55:18.480 --> 00:55:21.800
<v Speaker 1>of sixty four, and their last surviving son, Roger, who

1054
00:55:21.840 --> 00:55:24.360
<v Speaker 1>died of a sudden illness in twenty ten at the

1055
00:55:24.400 --> 00:55:27.559
<v Speaker 1>age of fifty nine. And if that wasn't enough, Phil's

1056
00:55:27.599 --> 00:55:31.000
<v Speaker 1>son Jeffrey, would also unexpectedly pass away due to illness

1057
00:55:31.000 --> 00:55:34.280
<v Speaker 1>at age forty five. And virtually every case like this,

1058
00:55:34.599 --> 00:55:36.880
<v Speaker 1>the victim's loved ones will insist that they were not

1059
00:55:37.000 --> 00:55:39.920
<v Speaker 1>suicidal and had everything to live for. But like we've

1060
00:55:39.960 --> 00:55:43.559
<v Speaker 1>mentioned countless times on this podcast, sometimes people will suddenly

1061
00:55:43.639 --> 00:55:47.079
<v Speaker 1>take their own lives without any warning whatsoever and completely

1062
00:55:47.159 --> 00:55:50.519
<v Speaker 1>surprise everyone. I know that Phil and Tracy had made

1063
00:55:50.519 --> 00:55:52.519
<v Speaker 1>a number of plans for the future, and he was

1064
00:55:52.559 --> 00:55:55.480
<v Speaker 1>only six months away from retiring from the military and

1065
00:55:55.559 --> 00:55:58.079
<v Speaker 1>starting a new chapter of his life, But since he

1066
00:55:58.119 --> 00:56:01.079
<v Speaker 1>had spent the past few years seeking treatment for depression

1067
00:56:01.159 --> 00:56:03.639
<v Speaker 1>and anxiety, I think it's a stretch to say that

1068
00:56:03.679 --> 00:56:06.480
<v Speaker 1>suicide was an absolutely impossible option.

1069
00:56:07.639 --> 00:56:09.199
<v Speaker 2>I would have to agree with you. I think it's

1070
00:56:09.800 --> 00:56:13.920
<v Speaker 2>a possible option for everyone. Right when you think about

1071
00:56:13.960 --> 00:56:19.119
<v Speaker 2>mental health and how there are quick onset mental health breakdowns,

1072
00:56:19.239 --> 00:56:24.519
<v Speaker 2>and there are mental health diseases that affect a lot

1073
00:56:24.559 --> 00:56:27.639
<v Speaker 2>of people, and sometimes they're just unpredictable. You don't know

1074
00:56:27.679 --> 00:56:31.079
<v Speaker 2>what's going to happen inside your brain. So I think

1075
00:56:31.119 --> 00:56:33.559
<v Speaker 2>suicide is something that when you say it could never

1076
00:56:33.679 --> 00:56:36.440
<v Speaker 2>happen to us, she would have never done that. I

1077
00:56:36.480 --> 00:56:39.320
<v Speaker 2>don't think that that's ever a statement that can be

1078
00:56:39.360 --> 00:56:42.880
<v Speaker 2>one hundred percent true, because again, it's not the rational

1079
00:56:42.960 --> 00:56:45.840
<v Speaker 2>person that you know thinking in that moment.

1080
00:56:45.880 --> 00:56:46.679
<v Speaker 4>You know, earlier, I was.

1081
00:56:46.639 --> 00:56:48.960
<v Speaker 2>Trying to explain things away and Jules is like, remember,

1082
00:56:49.719 --> 00:56:52.679
<v Speaker 2>probably irrational in that moment, I thought, oh, yeah, that's true.

1083
00:56:53.519 --> 00:56:56.559
<v Speaker 2>It's not the person you know that's taking their own life.

1084
00:56:56.760 --> 00:56:59.440
<v Speaker 2>It's someone who's been hiding something or had an onset

1085
00:56:59.440 --> 00:57:03.079
<v Speaker 2>of something pretty sudden that has them not in their

1086
00:57:03.840 --> 00:57:08.800
<v Speaker 2>right mind. So yeah, is it possible for sure? Is

1087
00:57:08.840 --> 00:57:12.760
<v Speaker 2>it easy to believe given the lifestyle he has and

1088
00:57:12.760 --> 00:57:16.360
<v Speaker 2>where he's at in his life. No, he's retiring from

1089
00:57:16.360 --> 00:57:20.480
<v Speaker 2>the military. He's gonna have the best package and financial situation.

1090
00:57:21.000 --> 00:57:22.760
<v Speaker 4>He's got a.

1091
00:57:22.199 --> 00:57:27.159
<v Speaker 2>New career he's pursuing in forensic psychiatry at the University

1092
00:57:27.199 --> 00:57:29.880
<v Speaker 2>of Alabama. They're moving to a home they've already put

1093
00:57:29.960 --> 00:57:32.679
<v Speaker 2>a down payment on. He's with his second wife, who's

1094
00:57:32.679 --> 00:57:35.639
<v Speaker 2>his dream girl, and he's you know, getting away from

1095
00:57:36.000 --> 00:57:39.400
<v Speaker 2>a scenario where he's fussing with his ex wife, right,

1096
00:57:39.440 --> 00:57:41.400
<v Speaker 2>he's just at least getting to move and have a

1097
00:57:41.480 --> 00:57:42.559
<v Speaker 2>fresh start somewhere.

1098
00:57:43.000 --> 00:57:45.000
<v Speaker 4>So I just I don't know.

1099
00:57:45.039 --> 00:57:48.599
<v Speaker 2>It's not likely. Is it possible? One thousand percent? It's

1100
00:57:48.639 --> 00:57:49.679
<v Speaker 2>possible for anybody.

1101
00:57:49.679 --> 00:57:50.119
<v Speaker 4>I think.

1102
00:57:50.679 --> 00:57:53.960
<v Speaker 3>I'm just struggling with the motivation, Like, what would be

1103
00:57:54.039 --> 00:57:56.480
<v Speaker 3>if you wanted to end his own life? I completely

1104
00:57:56.639 --> 00:58:01.559
<v Speaker 3>understand that, But what would be the motivation to basically

1105
00:58:01.639 --> 00:58:06.280
<v Speaker 3>fake a murder? Are you trying to screw Nancy over

1106
00:58:06.400 --> 00:58:09.039
<v Speaker 3>so badly that you're going to frame her for murder

1107
00:58:09.079 --> 00:58:13.039
<v Speaker 3>when she didn't kill you. It just seems bizarre. And

1108
00:58:13.079 --> 00:58:15.519
<v Speaker 3>if he was irrational at the time, he might be

1109
00:58:15.559 --> 00:58:18.880
<v Speaker 3>making really irrational decisions. But if he did indeed do

1110
00:58:18.960 --> 00:58:21.679
<v Speaker 3>this to himself, he was rational enough to think, I

1111
00:58:21.719 --> 00:58:25.239
<v Speaker 3>will inject myself with Leta Kane before I do these

1112
00:58:25.400 --> 00:58:29.239
<v Speaker 3>grievous injuries to myself like cutting off nipples and finger

1113
00:58:29.360 --> 00:58:33.519
<v Speaker 3>and gashing oneself across the chest. And maybe there was

1114
00:58:33.559 --> 00:58:37.599
<v Speaker 3>those hesitation marks. If that's indeed what it was if

1115
00:58:37.599 --> 00:58:42.320
<v Speaker 3>he did do this. I'm just really really struggling with why.

1116
00:58:43.400 --> 00:58:45.800
<v Speaker 1>I guess you'll turn. An example is that some people

1117
00:58:46.159 --> 00:58:48.719
<v Speaker 1>try to make their suicide look like a homicide because

1118
00:58:48.719 --> 00:58:51.360
<v Speaker 1>they don't want anyone else to know they completed suicide.

1119
00:58:51.400 --> 00:58:53.039
<v Speaker 1>They don't want to go out on those terms, so

1120
00:58:53.400 --> 00:58:55.320
<v Speaker 1>they want to make it look like they were killed

1121
00:58:55.320 --> 00:58:57.519
<v Speaker 1>and that they didn't make a conscious choice to take

1122
00:58:57.559 --> 00:58:58.719
<v Speaker 1>their own life.

1123
00:58:59.159 --> 00:59:01.719
<v Speaker 3>Now, there are doctor umented cases in which victims have

1124
00:59:01.840 --> 00:59:04.559
<v Speaker 3>killed themselves and gone to great lengths to ensure their

1125
00:59:04.559 --> 00:59:08.000
<v Speaker 3>deaths do not look like suicide. Those slicing open your

1126
00:59:08.039 --> 00:59:10.480
<v Speaker 3>chest and cutting off both your nipples and a joint

1127
00:59:10.480 --> 00:59:14.400
<v Speaker 3>from your pinky finger before deliberately crashing your car does

1128
00:59:14.440 --> 00:59:16.880
<v Speaker 3>seem like a pretty horrific way to end your own life.

1129
00:59:17.280 --> 00:59:20.199
<v Speaker 3>The reason that vehicular suicides are so risky is that

1130
00:59:20.239 --> 00:59:23.280
<v Speaker 3>you could end up paralyzed or a vegetable, which would

1131
00:59:23.280 --> 00:59:25.920
<v Speaker 3>be a fate worse than death for a suicidal person.

1132
00:59:26.760 --> 00:59:29.280
<v Speaker 3>One of the big issues with how Colonel Schue died

1133
00:59:29.480 --> 00:59:32.000
<v Speaker 3>is that he didn't crash head on into a tree,

1134
00:59:32.239 --> 00:59:35.159
<v Speaker 3>but instead drove off the road and clipped one tree

1135
00:59:35.199 --> 00:59:38.119
<v Speaker 3>before he spun into his second tree with such force

1136
00:59:38.159 --> 00:59:40.800
<v Speaker 3>that he was killed by the impact. I don't think

1137
00:59:40.840 --> 00:59:43.960
<v Speaker 3>anyone could predict with absolute certainty that a crash like

1138
00:59:44.000 --> 00:59:46.599
<v Speaker 3>that would end their life. But then again, if Shue

1139
00:59:46.679 --> 00:59:49.079
<v Speaker 3>was in a very dark place and suffered a complete

1140
00:59:49.079 --> 00:59:52.320
<v Speaker 3>psychological breakdown, he may not have been in the most

1141
00:59:52.440 --> 00:59:55.519
<v Speaker 3>rational state of mind that morning. And all that being said,

1142
00:59:55.719 --> 00:59:58.280
<v Speaker 3>even though there are a number of details about Sho's

1143
00:59:58.320 --> 01:00:00.880
<v Speaker 3>death which point to the involvement of a outside party,

1144
01:00:01.320 --> 01:00:04.000
<v Speaker 3>it's really hard to come up with a scenario involving

1145
01:00:04.000 --> 01:00:07.159
<v Speaker 3>abduction and torture that makes much sense. We've read the

1146
01:00:07.199 --> 01:00:10.719
<v Speaker 3>psychological autopsy report that was produced by the Air Force

1147
01:00:10.760 --> 01:00:14.880
<v Speaker 3>Office of Special Investigations, and while there are definitely issues

1148
01:00:14.920 --> 01:00:17.639
<v Speaker 3>with some of their conclusions, they do make some valid

1149
01:00:17.639 --> 01:00:20.800
<v Speaker 3>points which seem to blow holes in the foul play theory.

1150
01:00:21.199 --> 01:00:23.760
<v Speaker 3>She left his home and his Mercury tracer that morning

1151
01:00:23.880 --> 01:00:26.119
<v Speaker 3>in order to make the thirty mile commute to work,

1152
01:00:26.559 --> 01:00:29.280
<v Speaker 3>and theoretically there should have been no reason for him

1153
01:00:29.320 --> 01:00:31.679
<v Speaker 3>to stop anywhere and put himself in a position to

1154
01:00:31.719 --> 01:00:34.519
<v Speaker 3>be abducted. You also have to take into account that

1155
01:00:34.559 --> 01:00:37.639
<v Speaker 3>she took a break from his ordinary routine by leaving

1156
01:00:37.639 --> 01:00:40.079
<v Speaker 3>an hour earlier than usual in order to catch up

1157
01:00:40.079 --> 01:00:42.960
<v Speaker 3>on some paperwork at his office. So unless someone was

1158
01:00:43.000 --> 01:00:45.480
<v Speaker 3>watching him when he left, how could they have known

1159
01:00:45.519 --> 01:00:47.360
<v Speaker 3>that she would be out there driving on the road

1160
01:00:47.400 --> 01:00:51.159
<v Speaker 3>at that particular time. The biggest issue with figuring out

1161
01:00:51.280 --> 01:00:54.400
<v Speaker 3>what happened is that we've got zero evidence if shees

1162
01:00:54.440 --> 01:00:57.719
<v Speaker 3>whereabouts during the two and a half hour window between

1163
01:00:57.760 --> 01:00:59.840
<v Speaker 3>when he left his residence at five forty five A

1164
01:01:00.639 --> 01:01:03.639
<v Speaker 3>and his car was seen driving erratically down Interstate ten

1165
01:01:04.000 --> 01:01:07.440
<v Speaker 3>between eight and eight fifteen am. All we really have

1166
01:01:07.679 --> 01:01:10.480
<v Speaker 3>is an eyewitness who came forward six years after the

1167
01:01:10.559 --> 01:01:13.960
<v Speaker 3>fat and recalled seeing the mercury tracer off the side

1168
01:01:13.960 --> 01:01:16.800
<v Speaker 3>of the road with the blue van parked directly behind it.

1169
01:01:17.320 --> 01:01:20.119
<v Speaker 3>This sighting took place on a road Shoe ordinarily would

1170
01:01:20.159 --> 01:01:22.800
<v Speaker 3>have used to drive onto the interstate during his commute

1171
01:01:22.800 --> 01:01:26.159
<v Speaker 3>to work, so I could see someone intercepting and abducting him.

1172
01:01:26.440 --> 01:01:28.960
<v Speaker 3>But if so, where did they take him to be tortured?

1173
01:01:29.440 --> 01:01:32.360
<v Speaker 3>Since the duct tape on Shoe's wrist was torn, this

1174
01:01:32.480 --> 01:01:34.400
<v Speaker 3>suggests that he might have been tied to a chair

1175
01:01:34.440 --> 01:01:36.840
<v Speaker 3>at some point before he broke free. But where was

1176
01:01:36.840 --> 01:01:40.880
<v Speaker 3>this location if she was abductor or abductors forced him

1177
01:01:40.880 --> 01:01:43.800
<v Speaker 3>into the van against his will and traveled elsewhere did

1178
01:01:43.840 --> 01:01:47.000
<v Speaker 3>someone else drive the tracer there? Remember Shoe died while

1179
01:01:47.079 --> 01:01:50.280
<v Speaker 3>driving the tracer, so if he managed to escape, he

1180
01:01:50.320 --> 01:01:52.159
<v Speaker 3>had to wind up back in his own car at

1181
01:01:52.159 --> 01:01:54.800
<v Speaker 3>some point. No matter which side of the fence you're on,

1182
01:01:54.920 --> 01:01:57.280
<v Speaker 3>there are a lot of unexplained gaps about how she

1183
01:01:57.519 --> 01:01:59.000
<v Speaker 3>got from point eight to point B.

1184
01:02:00.239 --> 01:02:04.239
<v Speaker 2>So shue Is had to have either driven his tracer

1185
01:02:04.559 --> 01:02:08.760
<v Speaker 2>towards work or met somebody somewhere, because he is eventually

1186
01:02:08.840 --> 01:02:11.880
<v Speaker 2>found in his own vehicle. But like you just said,

1187
01:02:11.960 --> 01:02:15.840
<v Speaker 2>if he was abducted or he's being tortured somewhere, it

1188
01:02:15.960 --> 01:02:19.679
<v Speaker 2>looks like someone else had to intervene and find him.

1189
01:02:19.679 --> 01:02:23.360
<v Speaker 2>So where was that location? The idea that he would

1190
01:02:23.360 --> 01:02:26.119
<v Speaker 2>have the duct tape is what is really bizarre to me.

1191
01:02:26.679 --> 01:02:30.480
<v Speaker 2>The injuries. Could you self inflict injuries, yes, but they're dramatic.

1192
01:02:30.760 --> 01:02:33.039
<v Speaker 2>They're cutting his chest, they're cutting off the nipples, they're

1193
01:02:33.079 --> 01:02:37.599
<v Speaker 2>cutting off a digit of his finger. All that's incredibly bizarre.

1194
01:02:37.880 --> 01:02:40.840
<v Speaker 2>But what would motivates you to actually do exactly what

1195
01:02:40.880 --> 01:02:43.519
<v Speaker 2>you said? Fake that you were almost tied to a

1196
01:02:43.639 --> 01:02:47.960
<v Speaker 2>chair somewhere and had to break free, which would make

1197
01:02:48.039 --> 01:02:50.599
<v Speaker 2>sense if he had been abducted, that that really occurred.

1198
01:02:50.679 --> 01:02:54.480
<v Speaker 2>So it's all very confusing. You have that maybe someone

1199
01:02:54.519 --> 01:02:56.760
<v Speaker 2>pulled up behind him at some point, which could be

1200
01:02:56.880 --> 01:03:00.159
<v Speaker 2>that second party, but we know nobody was in the car.

1201
01:03:00.039 --> 01:03:00.760
<v Speaker 4>When he crashed.

1202
01:03:01.119 --> 01:03:05.400
<v Speaker 2>I think that he likely was fleeing from something or

1203
01:03:05.440 --> 01:03:09.119
<v Speaker 2>somebody and was in a state of shock and panic

1204
01:03:09.239 --> 01:03:12.360
<v Speaker 2>and losing blood. And that's why you never see tail lights,

1205
01:03:12.360 --> 01:03:15.599
<v Speaker 2>That's why you never see skid marks. He's actually just

1206
01:03:16.440 --> 01:03:19.920
<v Speaker 2>losing consciousness and coming off the road. He seems so

1207
01:03:20.039 --> 01:03:24.360
<v Speaker 2>normal that morning. Could he have completed suicide? Sure, anything's possible.

1208
01:03:25.519 --> 01:03:28.639
<v Speaker 2>Be one of the most bizarre suicides in history, probably,

1209
01:03:29.159 --> 01:03:33.079
<v Speaker 2>but the other being abducted, being tortured, breaking free from

1210
01:03:33.079 --> 01:03:36.679
<v Speaker 2>some cherry or taped to seems very plausible when you

1211
01:03:36.760 --> 01:03:38.800
<v Speaker 2>look at this evidence. I don't think he would have

1212
01:03:38.800 --> 01:03:40.840
<v Speaker 2>pulled over to get help. I think he would have

1213
01:03:40.880 --> 01:03:43.000
<v Speaker 2>been in a state of shock, and then when that's

1214
01:03:43.000 --> 01:03:46.880
<v Speaker 2>wearing off is when he would crash the car.

1215
01:03:47.559 --> 01:03:49.599
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it definitely does seem to me that him being

1216
01:03:49.639 --> 01:03:51.880
<v Speaker 1>abducted and towards it makes a lot more sense than

1217
01:03:51.960 --> 01:03:54.880
<v Speaker 1>him staging elaborate suicide. But like I said, The big

1218
01:03:54.920 --> 01:03:57.199
<v Speaker 1>issue is that I cannot figure out how things got

1219
01:03:57.239 --> 01:03:59.239
<v Speaker 1>to that point. I mean, we mentioned that his cell

1220
01:03:59.280 --> 01:04:01.159
<v Speaker 1>phone was found and there was no record of him

1221
01:04:01.159 --> 01:04:03.920
<v Speaker 1>having made any calls that morning, so it doesn't sound

1222
01:04:03.960 --> 01:04:06.840
<v Speaker 1>like he made any plans to meet anyone. So it

1223
01:04:06.840 --> 01:04:08.679
<v Speaker 1>could have been just a thing where someone pulled out

1224
01:04:08.719 --> 01:04:10.360
<v Speaker 1>in front of him and got him to pull over

1225
01:04:10.480 --> 01:04:13.840
<v Speaker 1>somehow and that's when he was abducted. But it still

1226
01:04:13.880 --> 01:04:16.199
<v Speaker 1>makes you wonder like where, if he was being tortured,

1227
01:04:16.199 --> 01:04:18.920
<v Speaker 1>where exactly did this occur. Where was there a chair

1228
01:04:19.039 --> 01:04:21.960
<v Speaker 1>to duct tape into? And what happened to these people

1229
01:04:22.039 --> 01:04:24.880
<v Speaker 1>after Shoe tried to flee the scene, And he.

1230
01:04:24.800 --> 01:04:27.400
<v Speaker 3>Did have to drive on some rural roads in order

1231
01:04:27.440 --> 01:04:30.079
<v Speaker 3>to get to work on the interstate, correct that is true?

1232
01:04:30.159 --> 01:04:32.320
<v Speaker 1>Yes, Like he didn't immediately go to the interstate, so

1233
01:04:32.400 --> 01:04:35.159
<v Speaker 1>I could see someone intercepting him and abducting him in

1234
01:04:35.199 --> 01:04:37.719
<v Speaker 1>a rural area without any witnesses around.

1235
01:04:38.519 --> 01:04:42.039
<v Speaker 2>And I'm assuming that Tracy never heard anything that he

1236
01:04:42.119 --> 01:04:43.760
<v Speaker 2>was going to meet up with somebody, or that he

1237
01:04:43.840 --> 01:04:46.039
<v Speaker 2>had a meeting before work or anything like that.

1238
01:04:46.559 --> 01:04:48.800
<v Speaker 1>I mean, he did say that he was leading earlier

1239
01:04:48.840 --> 01:04:51.119
<v Speaker 1>than usual, about an hour earlier. Because he had some

1240
01:04:51.199 --> 01:04:54.159
<v Speaker 1>extra paperwork to do. So theoretically that could have been

1241
01:04:54.159 --> 01:04:56.320
<v Speaker 1>a lie that maybe he had a secret meet up

1242
01:04:56.360 --> 01:04:58.880
<v Speaker 1>with someone and that's why he was leaving early. But

1243
01:04:59.440 --> 01:05:02.000
<v Speaker 1>if so, they never found any phone records or any

1244
01:05:02.039 --> 01:05:04.559
<v Speaker 1>emails or anything to prove that theory.

1245
01:05:04.800 --> 01:05:06.800
<v Speaker 2>I wish they could analyze that cell phone. When you

1246
01:05:06.840 --> 01:05:08.119
<v Speaker 2>look at the idea that there was a lot of

1247
01:05:08.119 --> 01:05:11.239
<v Speaker 2>blood inside the phone but not on top, it's really

1248
01:05:11.239 --> 01:05:13.880
<v Speaker 2>really interesting, and they didn't. They just like the rest

1249
01:05:13.920 --> 01:05:15.920
<v Speaker 2>of the evidence, they said, oh, it's a suicide, no

1250
01:05:16.000 --> 01:05:17.599
<v Speaker 2>need to investigate further.

1251
01:05:17.719 --> 01:05:18.719
<v Speaker 4>And there were.

1252
01:05:18.519 --> 01:05:23.960
<v Speaker 2>Things there that might have given more information to police.

1253
01:05:24.239 --> 01:05:25.800
<v Speaker 1>So now this would be a good time to bring

1254
01:05:25.840 --> 01:05:28.039
<v Speaker 1>an into Part one. Join us next week as we

1255
01:05:28.119 --> 01:05:30.760
<v Speaker 1>present part two of our series about the unexplained death

1256
01:05:30.800 --> 01:05:32.159
<v Speaker 1>of Colonel Philip Shoe.

1257
01:05:33.360 --> 01:05:34.840
<v Speaker 3>Robin, do you want to tell us a little bit

1258
01:05:34.840 --> 01:05:36.320
<v Speaker 3>about the Trail Went Cold Patreon?

1259
01:05:37.079 --> 01:05:39.440
<v Speaker 1>Yes, The Trail Cold Patreon has been around for three

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<v Speaker 1>years now, and we offer these standard bonus features like

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<v Speaker 1>early ad free episodes, and I also send out stickers

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01:05:46.760 --> 01:05:49.559
<v Speaker 1>and sign thank you cards to anyone who signs up

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01:05:49.599 --> 01:05:52.159
<v Speaker 1>with us on Patreon. If you join our five dollars

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01:05:52.239 --> 01:05:56.320
<v Speaker 1>tier Tier two. We also offer monthly bonus episodes in

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<v Speaker 1>which I talk about cases which are not featured on

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<v Speaker 1>The Trail Went Cold's original feed, so they're exclusive to

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<v Speaker 1>Patreon and if you join our highest tier, tier three,

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<v Speaker 1>the ten dollars Tier. One of the features we offer

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<v Speaker 1>is a audio commentary track over classic episodes of UNSAWD Mysteries,

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<v Speaker 1>where you can download an audio file and then boot

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<v Speaker 1>up the original Unsolved Mysteries episode on Amazon Prime or

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<v Speaker 1>YouTube and play it with my audio commentary playing in

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01:06:22.960 --> 01:06:26.039
<v Speaker 1>the background, where I just provide trivia and factoids about

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<v Speaker 1>the cases featured in this episode. And incidentally, the very

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<v Speaker 1>first episode that I did a commentary track over was

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<v Speaker 1>the episode featuring this case. So if you want to

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<v Speaker 1>download a commentary track in which I make more smart

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<v Speaker 1>ass remarks about Jewel Kaylor, then be sure to join

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<v Speaker 1>Tier three.

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<v Speaker 5>So I want to let you know a little bit

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<v Speaker 5>about the Jeweles and n Ashy Patreons. So there's early

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<v Speaker 5>ad free episodes of the Path Went Chili. We've got

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<v Speaker 5>our Path Went Chili mini's, which are always over an hour,

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<v Speaker 5>so they're not very mini, but they're just too short

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<v Speaker 5>to turn into a series and we're really enjoying doing those,

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<v Speaker 5>so we hope you'll check out those patreons will them

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<v Speaker 5>in the show notes.

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<v Speaker 1>So I want to thank you all for listening, and

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<v Speaker 1>any chance you have to share us on social media

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<v Speaker 1>with a friend or to rate and review is greatly appreciated.

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<v Speaker 1>You can email us at the Pathwentchili at gmail dot com.

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<v Speaker 1>You can reach us on Twitter at the Pathwink. So

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<v Speaker 1>until next time, be sure to bundle up because cold

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<v Speaker 1>trails and chili pass call for warm clothing.

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<v Speaker 3>Music by Paul Rich from the podcast Cold Callers Comedy
