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<v Speaker 1>The new administration you know, clearly is wanting to make

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<v Speaker 1>you know, the US the capital for crypto and make

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<v Speaker 1>sure that we're not missing a beat when it comes

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<v Speaker 1>to innovation in general and with respect to crypto, and

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<v Speaker 1>I think that's very, very positive.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey everyone, welcome into the Thinking Crypto podcast. I'm your

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<v Speaker 2>host Tony Edward and my guest today is Bobby Zagoda,

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<v Speaker 2>who is the CEO of Bitstamp USA and global Chief

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<v Speaker 2>Commercial Officer. Bobby. Great to have you on.

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<v Speaker 1>Great to be here, Tony.

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<v Speaker 2>Bobby, as we were talking about before the recording, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>an og user bitstamp. I remember back in I think

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<v Speaker 2>it was twenty seventeen, transferring funds over to bitstamp in

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<v Speaker 2>the Europe in Europe, buying some bitcoin and then using

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<v Speaker 2>some of that bitcoin to buy all coins. So I

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<v Speaker 2>have a lot of background with bitstamp, so I'm really

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<v Speaker 2>excited to chat with you and learn about what you

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<v Speaker 2>guys are up to these days. But let's start with

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<v Speaker 2>your background. Tell us about yourself, where you're from, and

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<v Speaker 2>your professional background.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, first of all, great to hear that you're a customer.

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<v Speaker 1>Love to hear that. Yeah, I've been with bits stamp

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<v Speaker 1>three and a half years. Just about I joined as

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<v Speaker 1>a CEO for the US, as you mentioned, and shortly

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<v Speaker 1>thereafter it took on this global Chief Commercial Officer role.

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<v Speaker 1>Prior to this, I was at Kraken, so another crypto exchange.

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<v Speaker 1>I was a chief commercial officer there for three years,

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<v Speaker 1>and prior to that, I was at I was on

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<v Speaker 1>the traditional financial services side at the Chicago Mercantile Exchange

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<v Speaker 1>CME Group, and I was a member of the leadership

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<v Speaker 1>team there. I ran a couple of different divisions and

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<v Speaker 1>as a matter of fact, it was there that I

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<v Speaker 1>got involved in crypto interestingly, because I had responsibility for

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<v Speaker 1>our venture capital CEMI Ventures, and that team started pitching

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<v Speaker 1>me on crypto and blockchain investments in late twenty thirteen,

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<v Speaker 1>and we started investing in twenty fourteen in some notable

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<v Speaker 1>early stage crypto companies, including Ripple for instance, and I

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<v Speaker 1>got quite involved as a board observer at Ripple for

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<v Speaker 1>a couple of years, and it really opened up my

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<v Speaker 1>mind to the possibilities of this technology, not only for

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<v Speaker 1>the world and for society, but for a company like

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<v Speaker 1>CME Group. And we ended up working really hard to

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<v Speaker 1>get that board of directors comfortable with the idea of

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<v Speaker 1>a bitcoin futures product, which which we ultimately did, although

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<v Speaker 1>it was it was difficult. You know, we were seeking

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<v Speaker 1>approval for this in twenty sixteen, which was still quite

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<v Speaker 1>early for let's call it mainstream traditional financial services companies

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<v Speaker 1>to be thinking about such a thing, but we were

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<v Speaker 1>successful in getting and getting the board to approve it.

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<v Speaker 1>We launched it in twenty seventeen. Of course, many people

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<v Speaker 1>thought we were crazy at the time, but it turned

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<v Speaker 1>out to be a really, really strong product for them.

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<v Speaker 2>That's amazing that you were part of launching bitcoin futures

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<v Speaker 2>at the CME, and today's day, the CME is one

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<v Speaker 2>of the kind of goal posts with the futures markets

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<v Speaker 2>to having futures markets for different assets in the crypto space.

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<v Speaker 2>I think even it's you know, when it comes to

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<v Speaker 2>like getting spot ETF approves approved, excuse me, they kind

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<v Speaker 2>of look to the CME to ensure the futures market

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<v Speaker 2>is established there.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it obviously plays a critical role in the evolution

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<v Speaker 1>of asset classes and assets, not just the CME, but

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<v Speaker 1>the futures marketplace in general. It becomes the price discovery

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<v Speaker 1>venue or venues for assets as they mature, and we're

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<v Speaker 1>seeing that in the crypto marketplace as well. Today the

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<v Speaker 1>derivative side of the crypto marketplace is growing so fast

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<v Speaker 1>and is so large today it is becoming the price

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<v Speaker 1>discovery mechanism for for lots of instruments, including ETFs of

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<v Speaker 1>course or eventually ETFs. Of course.

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<v Speaker 2>With your history right going back to like twenty fifteen

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<v Speaker 2>and so forth and getting involved in crypto, what's it

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<v Speaker 2>like looking back ten years later, we're in twenty twenty five,

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<v Speaker 2>of course, and seeing the growth with trad fi here,

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<v Speaker 2>with spottytf stable cooin market is booming. You have a

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<v Speaker 2>pro crypto government and all these things in place.

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<v Speaker 1>It's just it's just unbelievable. And you know, particularly when

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<v Speaker 1>the ETF approvals happened last year. You know, even though

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<v Speaker 1>there was a lot of regulatory and still is you know,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, important regulatory gaps that need to be filled

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<v Speaker 1>and another challenges. But when the ETF approvals came through,

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<v Speaker 1>I you know, I took a moment to talk to

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<v Speaker 1>some of my colleagues and some of my former colleagues

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<v Speaker 1>and just say, hey, can we just enjoy this for

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<v Speaker 1>a moment. Can we just set back This was unthinkable

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<v Speaker 1>you know a few years ago, and and uh and

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<v Speaker 1>so really quite amazing that that that we are seeing

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<v Speaker 1>the progress and the mainstream acceptance both on the part

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<v Speaker 1>of institutions and and retail investors that were that we're

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<v Speaker 1>seeing now. And it also brings brings home for me

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<v Speaker 1>the level of vision that you know, the godfathers have,

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<v Speaker 1>such as the founders of bit stamped. You know they

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<v Speaker 1>bit stamp was founded in twenty eleven, right, it's the

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<v Speaker 1>longest running crypto exchange. You know, the foresight that those

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<v Speaker 1>brilliant young men have at that time, and not just

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<v Speaker 1>that you know, Brian Armstrong, Jesse Powell. You know, there's

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<v Speaker 1>these guys saw something, believed in it, you know, and

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<v Speaker 1>and really invested, you know, invested their heart and soul

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<v Speaker 1>in it. And so so fancy your question. From my standpoint,

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<v Speaker 1>I've been in the markets now for six or seven

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<v Speaker 1>years full time. It's amazing to see where we are.

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<v Speaker 1>But it also reminds me what level of vision started

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<v Speaker 1>back in back with the white paper.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh absolutely, And do you feel like we've crossed the chasm,

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<v Speaker 2>hit the tipping point where there's no going back, like

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<v Speaker 2>the genies at the bottle of this thing is now

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<v Speaker 2>we're hitting the ground running. You got trad Fi, you

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<v Speaker 2>got the government on board, there's change in the regime

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<v Speaker 2>of the SEC, and there's a crypto task force being

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<v Speaker 2>formed of the SEC now that innovators and entrepreneurs can

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<v Speaker 2>really put their heads down, start working, not worry about

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<v Speaker 2>you know, getting a walls notice and things like that,

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<v Speaker 2>and we might see a big boom this year in

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<v Speaker 2>the industry.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I do. I think it's pats the tipping point,

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<v Speaker 1>to use your language, there's no going back. The validity

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<v Speaker 1>and frankly, the brilliance of the technology, the underpinning technology

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<v Speaker 1>and all of the potential applications around it not just

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<v Speaker 1>in financial services, but as has been well discussed in

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<v Speaker 1>you know, identity management and supply chain management, and you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the list goes on and on. There's there's no question

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<v Speaker 1>that the United States and the world are going to

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<v Speaker 1>you know, make the most of this opportunity in lots

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<v Speaker 1>of different ways and lots of different forms. And it

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<v Speaker 1>might not be the way that it was originally envisioned

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<v Speaker 1>by by some of the godfathers I was just mentioning,

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<v Speaker 1>but no question it will be. Uh. It will create

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<v Speaker 1>great opportunities for individuals, for investors and for you know,

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<v Speaker 1>people who are running businesses and moving money and all

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<v Speaker 1>those good things. And I think in particular in the US,

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<v Speaker 1>as you mentioned, right, the US has been you know,

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<v Speaker 1>there's been a bit of a governor on our progress

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<v Speaker 1>by virtue of the lack of regulatory clarity and the

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<v Speaker 1>fact that the past administration you know, seem to be

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<v Speaker 1>you know, actively or behind the scenes trying to slow

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<v Speaker 1>trying to slow the process. You know. My feeling is

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<v Speaker 1>they weren't sure what their position was, but they wanted

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<v Speaker 1>to slow it down in the meantime, and they didn't

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<v Speaker 1>do that in a very transparent way. The new administration,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, clearly is wanting to make you know, the

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<v Speaker 1>US the capital for crypto and and make sure that

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<v Speaker 1>we're not missing a beat when it comes to innovation

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<v Speaker 1>in general and with respect to crypto, and I think

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<v Speaker 1>that's very, very positive. So even today where we're enjoying

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<v Speaker 1>some some really renewed interests and adoption, there's still a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of people who have been on the sidelines, both

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<v Speaker 1>individuals and institutions, waiting for a moment where they could

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<v Speaker 1>get involved without feeling like a regulator might have a

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<v Speaker 1>gun to their head and and them not really know

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<v Speaker 1>about it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Absolutely, And it's amazing the things that are on

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<v Speaker 2>the table even with the government right a stable coin legislation,

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<v Speaker 2>market structure legislation, and then you have the bitcoin reserve bill,

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<v Speaker 2>states individually are introducing bitcoin reserve bills. And then you

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<v Speaker 2>also have the ELON talking about putting government spending on

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<v Speaker 2>the blockchain, which I think, regardless of what where you

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<v Speaker 2>stand politically, you should know where your tax dollars are

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<v Speaker 2>being how they're being used, and how it's been spent. Right,

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<v Speaker 2>So it'll be amazing to see these things come to

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<v Speaker 2>fruition this year.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, No, I mean, it's it is again quite amazing

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<v Speaker 1>a strategic bitcoin reserve. I mean, just you know that

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<v Speaker 1>that level of recognition and that level of relying on

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<v Speaker 1>this asset, you know, is uh is just incredibly important

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<v Speaker 1>and also you know, makes a lot of sense. It

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<v Speaker 1>just makes a lot of sense, you know. I'm certainly

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<v Speaker 1>I've never worked in the Treasury. I'm not you know,

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<v Speaker 1>take everything I say with a great assault as it

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<v Speaker 1>recome as as it relates to treasury and Treasury policy.

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<v Speaker 1>But you know, I think diversification is a good idea

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<v Speaker 1>in general when you're trying to manage a portfolio or

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<v Speaker 1>manage a bunch of money. So so I think there's

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of a lot of merit to the idea.

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<v Speaker 2>M Yeah, I know there's talks of, yes, the bigcoin reserve,

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<v Speaker 2>but also a digital stockpile. I don't know that will

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<v Speaker 2>actually come to fruition, but it were, it would include

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<v Speaker 2>other digital assets as well. So we'll see what Trump

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<v Speaker 2>and the administration decide to do.

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<v Speaker 1>I inc I'm sorry, I mean interrupt Tony, but instantly,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think that's the most important thing, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's great that the administration is focused on

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<v Speaker 1>that and I think there's benefits to be had, but

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<v Speaker 1>I do think the regulatory issue has got to be solved,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's got to be solved quickly. And I believe,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know, but I believe that's going to require

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<v Speaker 1>congressional action. You know. My take on the situation in

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<v Speaker 1>the US is a we are behind so in Europe

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<v Speaker 1>and bitstamp is a very global business. So our business

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<v Speaker 1>in Europe in many respects is thriving because of a

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<v Speaker 1>different level of regulatory clarity with the MICA framework and

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<v Speaker 1>other things. So it hasn't enabled institutions and banks in

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<v Speaker 1>particular to get involved in a way that is not

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<v Speaker 1>currently possible in the US, just as one example. So

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<v Speaker 1>I believe that Congress needs to act. They need there

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<v Speaker 1>needs to be a framework that, for instance, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>defines the jurisdictions here between CFTC and SEC and how

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<v Speaker 1>that all fits together with crypto because it doesn't fit

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<v Speaker 1>neatly into you know, traditional structures there. And then those

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<v Speaker 1>regulators need to create, you know, create rules and do

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<v Speaker 1>it transparently, not not by enforcement where we're all trying

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<v Speaker 1>to guess what, you know, what the rules are. So

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<v Speaker 1>that that I hope UH, the administration prioritizes and and

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<v Speaker 1>and becomes an initial focus.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Absolutely, one hundred percent. That is the thing a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of people are waiting for in the market's waiting for, uh,

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<v Speaker 2>because there's still some wild West activities happening in the

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<v Speaker 2>crypto space. We need the regulations and UH that protects consumers,

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<v Speaker 2>but also the fosters innovation. Let's talk about bitstamp for

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<v Speaker 2>those who may not know, tell us about big Stamp

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<v Speaker 2>and the different services you guys offer.

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<v Speaker 1>Sure, sure, thanks, so, as I mentioned, bistamps the longest

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<v Speaker 1>running crypto exchange. Are quite proud of our track record

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<v Speaker 1>in that regard. We do serve to starting at the

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<v Speaker 1>highest level. We do serve retail investors. We've got you know,

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<v Speaker 1>five million or so retail customers. We also serve in institutions,

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<v Speaker 1>and we have a growing and really strong, uh you know,

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<v Speaker 1>cohort of institutional clients. And we believe that that diversity

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<v Speaker 1>makes our markets really healthy and really and really reliable.

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<v Speaker 1>And bit stamp, you know, our claim to fame is

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<v Speaker 1>generally that we believe we have the the most extensive

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<v Speaker 1>regulatory licensing footprint in the business, and that we have

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<v Speaker 1>always prioritized regulatory compliance and you know, professional governance as

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<v Speaker 1>a company, even at the expense of growth, probably in

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<v Speaker 1>the early years. And that was you know, going back

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<v Speaker 1>to our founders and I wasn't there at bitstamp at

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<v Speaker 1>the time, but my my belief and based on my

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<v Speaker 1>conversation is with them, you know, they anticipated this moment.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, they anticipated a time when mainstream adoption will

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<v Speaker 1>happen and specifically institutions will get involved, you know, in

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<v Speaker 1>more of a complete way. And so they back in

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<v Speaker 1>twenty fifteen twenty sixteen, started making decisions to prepare bitstamp

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<v Speaker 1>to be an obvious choice, particularly for institutions. So what

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<v Speaker 1>did they do. You know, they they firstly separated custody

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<v Speaker 1>from the exchange, so we out we had we had

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<v Speaker 1>that technology, we outsourced it to a licensed custodian bid Go.

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<v Speaker 1>Why because the institutions generally get worried about that counterparty

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<v Speaker 1>risk when when those two things are together. The next

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<v Speaker 1>thing they did was they got a license. So we

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<v Speaker 1>were the first to ever get a license, which was

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<v Speaker 1>which was in Luxembourg, and that's started us down the path.

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<v Speaker 1>We have sixty plus licenses around the world today and

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<v Speaker 1>the third thing they did was, which I thought must

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<v Speaker 1>have been quite radical at the time, is you know,

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<v Speaker 1>they made the decision in twenty sixteen to start getting

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<v Speaker 1>global financial audits from a big four accounting firm. And

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<v Speaker 1>you know, I'm pretty sure in twenty sixteen there weren't

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<v Speaker 1>many crypto companies thinking about global financial audits. And because

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<v Speaker 1>of that, you know, we're the only ones who can

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<v Speaker 1>say we have eight years of cleaning audit opinions from

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<v Speaker 1>a Big four accounting firm, and that has defined bitstamped

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<v Speaker 1>to a pretty great degree. We just do things right.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, we don't mess around. We want to make

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<v Speaker 1>the confidence that our customers have in us kind of

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<v Speaker 1>beyond approach.

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<v Speaker 2>That's great. I love that, you know, going back to

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<v Speaker 2>twenty sixteen, you guys are doing these audits and if

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<v Speaker 2>only the industry had that standard or you know, more exchange,

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<v Speaker 2>we wouldn't have FTX and all this madness that took place.

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<v Speaker 2>And then I love that you guys outsource your custody

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<v Speaker 2>to like a trust custodian like bitgo. That's really great.

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<v Speaker 2>So they'll com mingling and once again FTX is the example.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Yeah, I couldn't agree more obviously, And the only

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<v Speaker 1>other thing I would add about Bitstamp is, as I

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<v Speaker 1>started to mention, where we're truly global, so you know,

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<v Speaker 1>our heritages in Europe. We were founded in Europe. Europe

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<v Speaker 1>is still sixty five percent of our total business, but

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<v Speaker 1>we have a strong and growing business in the US

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<v Speaker 1>and in the Americas and also in Asia.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, there was news last year I believe that robin

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<v Speaker 2>Hood had acquired bitstamp. Tell us about that acquisition and

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<v Speaker 2>how you'll be working together.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we're really excited about this, and I can't comment

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<v Speaker 1>much about it because it's a transaction in progress. But

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<v Speaker 1>what I can say is what we said publicly, we

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<v Speaker 1>when we announce the acquisition that we it will take

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<v Speaker 1>some time to get through regulatory approvals. I mentioned, we've

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<v Speaker 1>got a lot of licenses. That's all progressing very very well.

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<v Speaker 1>We said when we when we announced that we expect

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<v Speaker 1>to be done with that that process, the regulatory approvals

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<v Speaker 1>and realize the change of control in June of twenty

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<v Speaker 1>twenty five. And we we are on track for that timeline. Still,

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<v Speaker 1>it's of course difficult to predict with precision because regulators,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, kind of operate on their own timelines, but

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<v Speaker 1>everything is progressing very very well. We're quite excited about it.

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<v Speaker 1>That the combination is very complementary. Right, So you know,

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<v Speaker 1>they're they're one retail focused today and as I mentioned,

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<v Speaker 1>we have a really strong growing institutional business. They're primarily

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<v Speaker 1>us UH in terms of their current customer base, and

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<v Speaker 1>and we're we're more skewed towards Europe. So these things

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<v Speaker 1>will I think create a really powerful combination.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh for sure. And in Bitstamp, As far as services

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<v Speaker 2>you offer, I'm I'm assuming you include the top crypto assets.

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<v Speaker 2>Uh do you offer staking? I'm assuming spot trading, futures

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<v Speaker 2>trading and things like that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, great question. So we were primarily a spot exchange today,

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<v Speaker 1>although we do have a derivatives offering coming soon which

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<v Speaker 1>I can which I can mention although we haven't we

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<v Speaker 1>haven't promoted yet, and we we do have a global

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<v Speaker 1>set of Spot offerings that support our Spot exchange. What

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<v Speaker 1>what we believe about the derivative side of the market

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<v Speaker 1>place is, as I mentioned earlier, you know, it dwarfs

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<v Speaker 1>the spot side of the crypto marketplace in terms of

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<v Speaker 1>overall volume and market cap, if you will, and it's

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<v Speaker 1>growing faster for all the right reasons. It's because these

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<v Speaker 1>as an asset class, crypto is maturing. However, the vast

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<v Speaker 1>majority of that volume is on venues that I would

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<v Speaker 1>characterize as offshore, you know, offshore or in lightly regulated jurisdictions,

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<v Speaker 1>And that's of great concern to me as somebody who's

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<v Speaker 1>been in the industry for a while and believes so

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<v Speaker 1>deeply in what we're doing. I like, where have I

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<v Speaker 1>heard of this before where a venue becomes large and

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<v Speaker 1>is in a lightly regulated jurisdiction. Oh, I remember is FTX.

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<v Speaker 1>So so you know, I think I think the industry

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<v Speaker 1>really needs to step back and think, so we don't repeat,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, repeat history here. So so ninety five percent

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<v Speaker 1>of a giant, you know, derivatives market is too much

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<v Speaker 1>to be in those venues that might have been okay

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<v Speaker 1>five years ago, but in twenty twenty five and going forward,

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<v Speaker 1>it just can't be so bitstamp. You know, Given everything

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<v Speaker 1>I said about our regulatory posture, we think we can

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<v Speaker 1>bring a solution to that, and I think others can

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<v Speaker 1>and need to as well, so that traders and investors

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<v Speaker 1>have alternatives that are liquid that you know, are not

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<v Speaker 1>in some jurisdiction that might not be as rigorous or

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<v Speaker 1>as trustworthy as others.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, great point, because I still see like these some

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<v Speaker 2>like new derivatives platform or exchanges pop up and they're

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<v Speaker 2>like no KYC and all these things, and I'm like,

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<v Speaker 2>that's probably not gonna last very long with the regulations

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<v Speaker 2>coming into place. Like to your point, like five six

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<v Speaker 2>years ago, you know, it was a young market. Now

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think that's gonna fly. So, yeah, we want

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<v Speaker 2>to have regulated institutions and things buttoned up, guardrails in

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<v Speaker 2>place and much more.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, for sure.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, I would love to get your thoughts on your

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<v Speaker 2>future outlook for crypto exchanges and platforms like bitstamp. And

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<v Speaker 2>in the context of look, there's ETFs being launched, there's

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<v Speaker 2>platforms like robin Hood, there's PayPal and so forth. How

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<v Speaker 2>how would bitstamp separate itself from these companies? You know,

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<v Speaker 2>what are some of the things you guys plan to

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<v Speaker 2>offer and maybe eventually tokenize assets, Right, We're going to

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<v Speaker 2>tokenize stocks and commodities, and maybe bitstamp will offer stuff

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<v Speaker 2>like that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, absolutely, So you know, there's a couple of ways

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<v Speaker 1>to think about about what's happening here from a from

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<v Speaker 1>a purely exchange standpoint, you know, and this is a

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<v Speaker 1>gross oversimplification, but you know, what are we what are

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<v Speaker 1>we good at? And what are exchanges good at? They're

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<v Speaker 1>good at matching buyers and sellers right and doing it

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<v Speaker 1>transparently and and doing it you know, incredibly efficiently. And

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<v Speaker 1>and so it doesn't have to be a single commodity

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<v Speaker 1>or type of commodity or asset that that is in

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<v Speaker 1>play for for an exchange. So what does that mean?

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<v Speaker 1>That means exchanges, you know, should think about diversifying into

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<v Speaker 1>for instance, you mentioned tokenized securities or tokenized assets of

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<v Speaker 1>other of other types that would be a natural growth that.

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<v Speaker 1>That is something we are focused on where we have

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<v Speaker 1>a strategy there and a set of initiatives that you know,

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<v Speaker 1>we'll be able to communicate more about in second half

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<v Speaker 1>of this year. But something we're very very excited about,

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<v Speaker 1>as everybody is the possibilities associated with tokenization in general

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<v Speaker 1>are just immense. You can do so many things, and

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<v Speaker 1>there's so many types of assets that lots of you know,

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<v Speaker 1>retail investors or buyers and sellers don't have access to today.

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<v Speaker 1>But with a tokenization you know process, then that could

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<v Speaker 1>really democratize a lot of market a lot of markets,

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<v Speaker 1>which I think is quite exciting. So yeah, tokenization is

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<v Speaker 1>really important. You also mentioned a minute ago staking and

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<v Speaker 1>some of the yield bearing products and services those I

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<v Speaker 1>think are really important for exchanges and also something that

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<v Speaker 1>we offer in select geographies. In Europe, for instance, we

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<v Speaker 1>have a lending offering where our customers can can choose

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<v Speaker 1>to lend their crypto for yield, and we do that

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<v Speaker 1>via a partner. But uh, the point the point of

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<v Speaker 1>that is we we do it quite transparently and differently

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<v Speaker 1>than it had been done in the past. We do

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<v Speaker 1>it in the big stamp way, if you will, and

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<v Speaker 1>then the other way to think about the future. I

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<v Speaker 1>think you mentioned robin Hood and cash app and some

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<v Speaker 1>of these guys. You know, there's there's a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>banks out here, also banks globally and in the US

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<v Speaker 1>that have you know, tremendous amount of loyal customers that

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<v Speaker 1>really trust them. But I think they're finding themselves in

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<v Speaker 1>a situation where they're depositors, their customers have to leave

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<v Speaker 1>their ecosystem to buy bitcoin, you know, or to use

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<v Speaker 1>a stable coin to transact somewhere, and they're getting increasingly

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<v Speaker 1>concerned about that, and I would too if I were them, right, So,

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<v Speaker 1>so I think there needs to be a or there

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<v Speaker 1>will be a convergence, you know of either led by

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<v Speaker 1>banks or led by fintech companies, great fintech or payments

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00:27:07.319 --> 00:27:10.759
<v Speaker 1>companies where they bring a lot of these banking and

420
00:27:10.799 --> 00:27:17.359
<v Speaker 1>financial services capabilities together in one app, you know. And

421
00:27:17.359 --> 00:27:20.680
<v Speaker 1>and from an exchange perspective, we would love to support that.

422
00:27:20.839 --> 00:27:23.480
<v Speaker 1>It doesn't have to be us at the at the

423
00:27:23.519 --> 00:27:26.480
<v Speaker 1>front end. We can be the liquidity liquidity at the

424
00:27:26.519 --> 00:27:30.359
<v Speaker 1>back end. But I do think that phenomenon is happening,

425
00:27:30.440 --> 00:27:34.839
<v Speaker 1>and I do think exchanges diversifying into different asset classes

426
00:27:34.960 --> 00:27:35.359
<v Speaker 1>is happening.

427
00:27:36.119 --> 00:27:38.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, for sure. And that's a great point of mentioning

428
00:27:38.200 --> 00:27:40.480
<v Speaker 2>that you could power to back end. Right, So it's

429
00:27:40.519 --> 00:27:42.200
<v Speaker 2>a bank and they don't want to build all these

430
00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:45.119
<v Speaker 2>things out. They just go to you guys, plug you

431
00:27:45.200 --> 00:27:49.079
<v Speaker 2>in and they can offer the customer's script. But you're

432
00:27:49.119 --> 00:27:50.839
<v Speaker 2>you're you know, powering to back end.

433
00:27:50.880 --> 00:27:54.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly, in fact, and that all we haven't We

434
00:27:54.519 --> 00:27:56.400
<v Speaker 1>have that ofurn called we call it big Stamp as

435
00:27:56.400 --> 00:27:59.240
<v Speaker 1>a service. And in Europe I alluded to this earlier

436
00:27:59.240 --> 00:28:03.599
<v Speaker 1>in Europe. We have a lot of a growing business here,

437
00:28:03.680 --> 00:28:07.960
<v Speaker 1>particularly in the banking sector, because they're not going to

438
00:28:07.960 --> 00:28:09.960
<v Speaker 1>build it at this point, right, so they're going to

439
00:28:10.000 --> 00:28:12.400
<v Speaker 1>need to rely on somebody who has the full regulatory

440
00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:15.359
<v Speaker 1>stack like like we do, and the full technology stack,

441
00:28:16.160 --> 00:28:18.559
<v Speaker 1>and and just plug it in so that their customers

442
00:28:18.599 --> 00:28:20.599
<v Speaker 1>don't have to leave in order to buy a few

443
00:28:20.640 --> 00:28:21.400
<v Speaker 1>dollars a big coin.

444
00:28:22.680 --> 00:28:26.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, great point. What's on your roadmap for this year?

445
00:28:28.079 --> 00:28:34.000
<v Speaker 1>Oh well, we're very excited about addressing this derivative situation

446
00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:37.759
<v Speaker 1>I mentioned. And again, like I said, we haven't announced

447
00:28:37.799 --> 00:28:41.240
<v Speaker 1>this yet, but suffice it to say that, you know,

448
00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:43.599
<v Speaker 1>outside of the US, a little bit different equation in

449
00:28:43.640 --> 00:28:46.680
<v Speaker 1>the US, but outside of the US, you know, and

450
00:28:46.799 --> 00:28:52.400
<v Speaker 1>specifically in Europe, you know, we have the licenses, specifically

451
00:28:52.440 --> 00:28:58.279
<v Speaker 1>a miffed license that would enable us to offer derivatives

452
00:28:58.519 --> 00:29:04.640
<v Speaker 1>and particularly perpetual swaps in our fully regulated, fully regulated fashion,

453
00:29:04.799 --> 00:29:10.759
<v Speaker 1>in a trustworthy jurisdiction. And beyond that securities or token

454
00:29:10.799 --> 00:29:15.519
<v Speaker 1>is securities or what have you. So, so in the

455
00:29:15.559 --> 00:29:19.359
<v Speaker 1>bitstamp way, we've we've gotten our licensing foundation in place

456
00:29:19.880 --> 00:29:23.279
<v Speaker 1>so that now we can build offerings that you know,

457
00:29:23.400 --> 00:29:27.599
<v Speaker 1>provide a really safe and sound regulated alternative to what's

458
00:29:27.640 --> 00:29:30.880
<v Speaker 1>in the market today. So that's a primary focus for us.

459
00:29:31.519 --> 00:29:36.160
<v Speaker 1>In addition to that, as I mentioned, we're in the

460
00:29:36.279 --> 00:29:44.079
<v Speaker 1>US looking to get back into the art and science

461
00:29:44.359 --> 00:29:47.400
<v Speaker 1>and ball game of growth. So for the last couple

462
00:29:47.440 --> 00:29:51.359
<v Speaker 1>of years, when the regulatory environment has been so uncertain,

463
00:29:52.839 --> 00:29:57.119
<v Speaker 1>like many we kind of we continue to grow our business,

464
00:29:57.400 --> 00:30:00.279
<v Speaker 1>but you know, maybe in a more quiet way then

465
00:30:00.279 --> 00:30:06.440
<v Speaker 1>would be typical, and we also true true form for

466
00:30:06.480 --> 00:30:09.559
<v Speaker 1>a bitstand we're also quite conservative in terms of our

467
00:30:09.599 --> 00:30:14.359
<v Speaker 1>token listings and our offerings. So for instance, when the

468
00:30:14.400 --> 00:30:20.119
<v Speaker 1>SEC brought actions against some of our competitors and they

469
00:30:20.200 --> 00:30:25.039
<v Speaker 1>named certain tokens, you know, we automatically trade halted those tokens,

470
00:30:25.160 --> 00:30:29.920
<v Speaker 1>even if we could not understand why the SEC picked them,

471
00:30:30.519 --> 00:30:33.880
<v Speaker 1>even if we had you know, legal opinions saying that

472
00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:37.240
<v Speaker 1>it was okay, we just took a very conservative posture.

473
00:30:37.480 --> 00:30:40.160
<v Speaker 1>Same thing with Staking in the US, the reactions brought

474
00:30:40.279 --> 00:30:44.079
<v Speaker 1>about Staking offerings. We think our Staking offering is different,

475
00:30:44.279 --> 00:30:48.359
<v Speaker 1>but we paused it. So now in twenty twenty five,

476
00:30:48.680 --> 00:30:51.599
<v Speaker 1>we want to get back into the business, albeit in

477
00:30:51.640 --> 00:30:58.279
<v Speaker 1>a disciplined and thorough way, to revisit those tokens and

478
00:30:58.920 --> 00:31:01.440
<v Speaker 1>also new tokens that have come out in the meantime,

479
00:31:01.559 --> 00:31:03.920
<v Speaker 1>and also staking products.

480
00:31:04.480 --> 00:31:08.799
<v Speaker 2>That's great, and I understand. I actually worked at a

481
00:31:08.880 --> 00:31:11.319
<v Speaker 2>small crypto exchange in the United States which had to

482
00:31:11.359 --> 00:31:14.720
<v Speaker 2>close its door because it didn't want to deal with

483
00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:18.079
<v Speaker 2>things like like as you mentioned, right, Wells notices and

484
00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:22.920
<v Speaker 2>get into massive lawsuits. So it feels like the dark

485
00:31:22.920 --> 00:31:26.599
<v Speaker 2>cloud has been lifted companies to help and get back

486
00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:29.279
<v Speaker 2>to focusing on growth, building great products.

487
00:31:28.880 --> 00:31:34.920
<v Speaker 1>And much more. Exactly exactly, yeah, the way everyone said

488
00:31:34.920 --> 00:31:36.480
<v Speaker 1>this a million times, but you know, the way the

489
00:31:36.599 --> 00:31:42.119
<v Speaker 1>SEC was operating it really made it quite uncomfortable. Even

490
00:31:42.200 --> 00:31:44.240
<v Speaker 1>for a company like bitstand like, we just want to

491
00:31:44.240 --> 00:31:46.160
<v Speaker 1>do it right. Just tell us what's right, we'll do it,

492
00:31:46.200 --> 00:31:49.079
<v Speaker 1>you know, I mean, no questions asked. We know how

493
00:31:49.119 --> 00:31:53.839
<v Speaker 1>to deliver compliant processes, but it was never quite clear

494
00:31:54.039 --> 00:31:59.720
<v Speaker 1>what was right, and the only way that the SEC

495
00:31:59.759 --> 00:32:03.480
<v Speaker 1>seem to want to address the issue was via enforcement.

496
00:32:04.119 --> 00:32:05.799
<v Speaker 1>And you know, if they bring an action, if they

497
00:32:05.880 --> 00:32:11.200
<v Speaker 1>bringe Wells notice and or a law suit, you know,

498
00:32:11.440 --> 00:32:15.240
<v Speaker 1>it's crippling for a business. It's crippling. You know, it

499
00:32:15.400 --> 00:32:19.400
<v Speaker 1>costs millions upon millions and millions of dollars just to

500
00:32:19.440 --> 00:32:22.319
<v Speaker 1>defend yourself even if you're one hundred percent correct and

501
00:32:23.200 --> 00:32:27.880
<v Speaker 1>above board. So it's you know that to your point,

502
00:32:27.960 --> 00:32:30.400
<v Speaker 1>it's good that we seem to be it's not done yet,

503
00:32:30.880 --> 00:32:32.119
<v Speaker 1>we seem to be moving beyond it.

504
00:32:32.920 --> 00:32:37.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Absolutely, I love like your thoughts on the Bitcoin

505
00:32:37.880 --> 00:32:42.559
<v Speaker 2>ETF and etheromytfs. Obviously, Bitcoin ETF a massive success, the

506
00:32:42.559 --> 00:32:45.720
<v Speaker 2>fastest growing ETFs in the history of the ETF market.

507
00:32:46.559 --> 00:32:49.680
<v Speaker 2>I blew out records out of the water. What are

508
00:32:49.720 --> 00:32:52.680
<v Speaker 2>your thoughts, And then there's talks of getting x RP

509
00:32:52.799 --> 00:32:55.240
<v Speaker 2>and Solana ETFs other old coins this year.

510
00:32:56.839 --> 00:33:03.119
<v Speaker 1>Well, it's just, uh, the phenomenon of the Bitcoin ETF

511
00:33:03.279 --> 00:33:07.599
<v Speaker 1>just can't be underestimated in terms of legitimizing the entire

512
00:33:07.720 --> 00:33:13.319
<v Speaker 1>idea for lots and lots of people and institutions. So

513
00:33:13.319 --> 00:33:16.680
<v Speaker 1>so so that's great and from a from a bitstand perspective,

514
00:33:17.759 --> 00:33:22.079
<v Speaker 1>you know, to us, that's a that is growing the pi,

515
00:33:22.559 --> 00:33:25.640
<v Speaker 1>you know, literally growing the pie. It's creating an avenue

516
00:33:25.759 --> 00:33:30.759
<v Speaker 1>for individuals and institutions that are comfortable with it. They

517
00:33:30.839 --> 00:33:32.799
<v Speaker 1>know how to deal with ETFs, they know what an

518
00:33:32.799 --> 00:33:35.960
<v Speaker 1>ETF means. They have those access points, you know, well

519
00:33:36.039 --> 00:33:41.000
<v Speaker 1>paved and and therefore they join a marketplace that they

520
00:33:41.039 --> 00:33:45.039
<v Speaker 1>otherwise you know, wouldn't it wouldn't take the time to

521
00:33:45.079 --> 00:33:50.839
<v Speaker 1>find the access points. So so similarly with Solana and XRP,

522
00:33:51.079 --> 00:33:53.720
<v Speaker 1>which I think are both you know, going to come,

523
00:33:53.880 --> 00:33:57.319
<v Speaker 1>I don't know on what timeline, but it's just gonna

524
00:33:57.359 --> 00:34:01.480
<v Speaker 1>do the same thing. It's going to open up new possibilities.

525
00:34:01.759 --> 00:34:06.440
<v Speaker 1>You know, both of those assets have a story, you know,

526
00:34:06.480 --> 00:34:10.360
<v Speaker 1>they have they have an ecosystem, there's an awful lot happening,

527
00:34:10.679 --> 00:34:15.920
<v Speaker 1>and you know, participating in that side of the crypto

528
00:34:15.960 --> 00:34:18.920
<v Speaker 1>marketplace is a little bit different than Bitcoin because of

529
00:34:19.119 --> 00:34:23.800
<v Speaker 1>what's what's being built within those ecosystems, and so so

530
00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:28.199
<v Speaker 1>I'm excited that more classes of investors are going to

531
00:34:28.280 --> 00:34:33.119
<v Speaker 1>get smarter and get more grounded in what is you know,

532
00:34:33.199 --> 00:34:36.920
<v Speaker 1>cutting edge across the across the crypto the cryptosphere if

533
00:34:36.920 --> 00:34:38.119
<v Speaker 1>you will, m hm.

534
00:34:38.880 --> 00:34:41.960
<v Speaker 2>And also your thoughts on the stable coin market, which

535
00:34:41.960 --> 00:34:44.679
<v Speaker 2>has been booming. You have a lot of new folks

536
00:34:44.719 --> 00:34:48.199
<v Speaker 2>issuing stable coins, even like Ripple they just launched a stablecoin.

537
00:34:48.239 --> 00:34:51.039
<v Speaker 2>PayPal has a version. I know the folks at robin

538
00:34:51.039 --> 00:34:55.519
<v Speaker 2>Hood is working on a conglomerate stable coin. I remember

539
00:34:55.639 --> 00:34:59.880
<v Speaker 2>speaking to I think it's Johann kerbat at Robin Hood.

540
00:35:00.360 --> 00:35:03.559
<v Speaker 2>Uh yeah, just so it seems a stable coin market

541
00:35:03.639 --> 00:35:07.159
<v Speaker 2>is heating up. There's many layers today because uh, if

542
00:35:07.159 --> 00:35:10.400
<v Speaker 2>the United States does it very well or right, Uh,

543
00:35:10.519 --> 00:35:13.039
<v Speaker 2>it can help maintain the world reserve currency status of

544
00:35:13.079 --> 00:35:16.480
<v Speaker 2>the US dollar and uh and a political aspect all

545
00:35:16.519 --> 00:35:16.760
<v Speaker 2>of that.

546
00:35:16.800 --> 00:35:21.639
<v Speaker 1>Of course, yeah, of course, and you are you are

547
00:35:21.880 --> 00:35:24.119
<v Speaker 1>correct or we're we're seeing the same thing. Just there's

548
00:35:24.280 --> 00:35:27.920
<v Speaker 1>there's a bit of a proliferation of new stable coin projects,

549
00:35:29.760 --> 00:35:35.800
<v Speaker 1>and you know, they all have slightly different con you know,

550
00:35:35.920 --> 00:35:41.960
<v Speaker 1>context or or or strategy behind them, but they all

551
00:35:42.000 --> 00:35:44.679
<v Speaker 1>carry a lot of possibilities associated with them. So what

552
00:35:44.960 --> 00:35:50.679
<v Speaker 1>I mean specifically is, for instance, some of them are

553
00:35:50.719 --> 00:35:57.000
<v Speaker 1>are more geared towards sharing rewards with infrastructure providers. So bitco,

554
00:35:57.119 --> 00:36:03.119
<v Speaker 1>for instance, bitco is launching a stateable coin, and part

555
00:36:03.159 --> 00:36:07.519
<v Speaker 1>of their concept, as I understand it, is you know

556
00:36:07.679 --> 00:36:11.960
<v Speaker 1>the yield, so you know, the underlying assets supporting these

557
00:36:11.960 --> 00:36:14.440
<v Speaker 1>stable coins generating an incredible amount of yield. If you

558
00:36:14.480 --> 00:36:19.519
<v Speaker 1>look at at Circle and if you could look at toether,

559
00:36:19.679 --> 00:36:22.320
<v Speaker 1>you would see just a lot of zeros, like just

560
00:36:22.639 --> 00:36:27.039
<v Speaker 1>enormous businesses built around this yield, but they don't share

561
00:36:27.039 --> 00:36:30.519
<v Speaker 1>a lot of that yield some of these new projects.

562
00:36:30.599 --> 00:36:33.760
<v Speaker 1>That's their whole concept is like, actually, we want to

563
00:36:33.800 --> 00:36:38.239
<v Speaker 1>reward the infrastructure that is, you know, providing access to

564
00:36:38.760 --> 00:36:42.679
<v Speaker 1>use of the stable coin. And then at the same time,

565
00:36:42.920 --> 00:36:45.840
<v Speaker 1>like the killer app side of stable coins just keeps

566
00:36:45.840 --> 00:36:48.360
<v Speaker 1>getting more and more pronounced. You know, the ability to

567
00:36:48.599 --> 00:36:54.800
<v Speaker 1>just move dollars or euros, you know, seamlessly and without cost,

568
00:36:55.199 --> 00:37:00.239
<v Speaker 1>you know, across a network or across an ecosystem is

569
00:37:01.159 --> 00:37:02.719
<v Speaker 1>is never going to go out of style. You know,

570
00:37:02.760 --> 00:37:07.000
<v Speaker 1>there's still there's still you know, Western Union and other

571
00:37:07.039 --> 00:37:11.320
<v Speaker 1>other places that charge an incredible amount to move money

572
00:37:12.079 --> 00:37:14.039
<v Speaker 1>and it takes a couple of days. You know. It's

573
00:37:14.159 --> 00:37:19.119
<v Speaker 1>it's that's ripe for ripe for innovation, let's.

574
00:37:18.960 --> 00:37:22.599
<v Speaker 2>Say, yeah for sure. Uh And and to your point,

575
00:37:22.679 --> 00:37:27.000
<v Speaker 2>like stable coin seem to be the killer use case

576
00:37:27.159 --> 00:37:29.800
<v Speaker 2>of blockchain. Obviously there's going to be more, you know,

577
00:37:29.840 --> 00:37:32.559
<v Speaker 2>with tokenization and stuff like that, but stable coin being

578
00:37:32.559 --> 00:37:36.840
<v Speaker 2>the first, and it's incredible, I feel like we can

579
00:37:36.920 --> 00:37:39.440
<v Speaker 2>hit if we haven't, we're close to it as yet,

580
00:37:39.519 --> 00:37:42.920
<v Speaker 2>maybe a trillion doullar market cap for stable coins probably

581
00:37:42.960 --> 00:37:44.840
<v Speaker 2>by the end of the year. Next year, we'll see,

582
00:37:44.880 --> 00:37:46.719
<v Speaker 2>but things are heating up.

583
00:37:46.760 --> 00:37:48.960
<v Speaker 1>I think it's I think it's possible. And I think

584
00:37:49.840 --> 00:37:54.519
<v Speaker 1>what's interesting is how many different There's two things are

585
00:37:54.519 --> 00:37:56.840
<v Speaker 1>interesting to me. One is how many different stable cooin

586
00:37:56.920 --> 00:38:02.039
<v Speaker 1>projects will get traction. I don't think it's going to

587
00:38:02.039 --> 00:38:04.039
<v Speaker 1>be just one, but I don't think it's going to

588
00:38:04.119 --> 00:38:10.920
<v Speaker 1>be one hundred either. And then also currencies, so you know,

589
00:38:11.519 --> 00:38:14.480
<v Speaker 1>the U s D stablecore market is by far the

590
00:38:14.880 --> 00:38:19.840
<v Speaker 1>the one that has gotten traction. But I'm curious to

591
00:38:19.840 --> 00:38:22.119
<v Speaker 1>see if if Euro stable coins, of which there are

592
00:38:22.119 --> 00:38:25.920
<v Speaker 1>some really quality projects out there, will will get traction,

593
00:38:26.199 --> 00:38:30.880
<v Speaker 1>or are Brazilian reale or or some other important FIAT currencies.

594
00:38:32.119 --> 00:38:35.239
<v Speaker 1>And you mentioned the political side of this, which is

595
00:38:35.320 --> 00:38:38.800
<v Speaker 1>interesting too. You know, I I am a firm believer

596
00:38:38.880 --> 00:38:42.880
<v Speaker 1>in what you said, which is, you know, the US

597
00:38:43.000 --> 00:38:49.039
<v Speaker 1>dollar enjoys a rarefied space in the global financial ecosystem.

598
00:38:49.400 --> 00:38:52.920
<v Speaker 1>And uh and and if and if we the US,

599
00:38:53.400 --> 00:38:58.760
<v Speaker 1>you know, for instance, stifle crypto or do not support

600
00:38:59.559 --> 00:39:02.280
<v Speaker 1>U s D stable coins, then it will be I

601
00:39:02.280 --> 00:39:06.320
<v Speaker 1>think negatively affected. Over time, it will erode. So healthy

602
00:39:06.440 --> 00:39:11.639
<v Speaker 1>USD stable coins will I think support you know, the

603
00:39:11.760 --> 00:39:15.840
<v Speaker 1>US dollar as a global currency and a global reserve currency,

604
00:39:17.320 --> 00:39:20.840
<v Speaker 1>and so I'm glad to see the administration's posture on this,

605
00:39:20.880 --> 00:39:24.880
<v Speaker 1>for instance, versus a you know, a central bank stable coin,

606
00:39:25.559 --> 00:39:29.119
<v Speaker 1>which I think would would disrupt that possibility.

607
00:39:30.039 --> 00:39:33.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, to your point, it seems like the CBDC movement

608
00:39:33.519 --> 00:39:37.440
<v Speaker 2>has kind of died down and the governments are leaning

609
00:39:37.480 --> 00:39:42.519
<v Speaker 2>more towards private sector stable coins. But we'll see. You know,

610
00:39:42.519 --> 00:39:45.320
<v Speaker 2>maybe some other countries may still move forward with CBDCs,

611
00:39:45.440 --> 00:39:47.960
<v Speaker 2>but at least here in the United States, that is,

612
00:39:48.159 --> 00:39:49.599
<v Speaker 2>it seems like it's dead on arrival.

613
00:39:51.440 --> 00:39:55.559
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I believe so. I hope so, because I just

614
00:39:55.679 --> 00:40:00.880
<v Speaker 1>I think both in terms of, you know, your economics,

615
00:40:00.880 --> 00:40:03.760
<v Speaker 1>it's better, but I also think the privacy aspect is

616
00:40:03.840 --> 00:40:08.239
<v Speaker 1>really really important too. But in China it's all CBDC,

617
00:40:08.400 --> 00:40:10.119
<v Speaker 1>you know, that's that's the marketplace there.

618
00:40:10.320 --> 00:40:15.360
<v Speaker 2>So so yall, Yeah, for sure. Now I hope you

619
00:40:15.360 --> 00:40:16.920
<v Speaker 2>do to mind be asking you about this, But you know,

620
00:40:17.000 --> 00:40:19.840
<v Speaker 2>meme coins have been going crazy. It's it's madness, right,

621
00:40:19.840 --> 00:40:22.039
<v Speaker 2>It's a well while West look there, I want to

622
00:40:22.039 --> 00:40:24.840
<v Speaker 2>make sure I preface this question. There are certain meme

623
00:40:24.840 --> 00:40:26.880
<v Speaker 2>coins like doge Coin, which I've been around for a

624
00:40:26.920 --> 00:40:29.440
<v Speaker 2>long time, you're not going to get rugged pulled by

625
00:40:29.519 --> 00:40:32.480
<v Speaker 2>doge coins. You know, it's not. It wasn't created last

626
00:40:32.480 --> 00:40:35.840
<v Speaker 2>week or last night on pump fun, right, But there's

627
00:40:35.880 --> 00:40:39.559
<v Speaker 2>a lot being created. The president launches own and a

628
00:40:39.639 --> 00:40:42.159
<v Speaker 2>lot of people are getting hurt and rugged. You know,

629
00:40:42.360 --> 00:40:45.719
<v Speaker 2>how does bitstamp look at these things? And and even

630
00:40:46.039 --> 00:40:49.000
<v Speaker 2>if there are some quality meme coins like your doge

631
00:40:49.000 --> 00:40:51.039
<v Speaker 2>coins that you're playing to listen, how do you guys

632
00:40:51.039 --> 00:40:51.599
<v Speaker 2>approach it.

633
00:40:52.639 --> 00:40:55.519
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's a great question, and it's you know, it's

634
00:40:55.599 --> 00:40:59.960
<v Speaker 1>something that is impossible to ignore. To your point, it's

635
00:41:00.400 --> 00:41:03.280
<v Speaker 1>you know, there's just a lot, there's a lot of

636
00:41:03.559 --> 00:41:07.760
<v Speaker 1>projects that are getting real traction and so and to

637
00:41:07.800 --> 00:41:11.599
<v Speaker 1>your point, the longest, the longest we're running ones that

638
00:41:11.639 --> 00:41:16.000
<v Speaker 1>you like Doje and Pepe. You know, these are generally

639
00:41:16.079 --> 00:41:18.760
<v Speaker 1>I think more trusted and they're too big now to

640
00:41:18.880 --> 00:41:22.119
<v Speaker 1>be like some pumping them you know scheme, which which

641
00:41:22.159 --> 00:41:25.199
<v Speaker 1>is great, I think from a bitstand perspective. You know,

642
00:41:25.360 --> 00:41:28.639
<v Speaker 1>for tokens in general, we're very choosy. You know, we

643
00:41:28.639 --> 00:41:32.239
<v Speaker 1>we have a very rigorous process where we look at

644
00:41:32.400 --> 00:41:37.000
<v Speaker 1>these projects, not just from a regulatory perspective, although that's

645
00:41:37.079 --> 00:41:40.239
<v Speaker 1>very important, but also from a technology perspective, from a

646
00:41:40.559 --> 00:41:46.440
<v Speaker 1>you know, a usability or a commercial perspective, a security

647
00:41:46.639 --> 00:41:49.440
<v Speaker 1>you know, information security kind of perspective. We try to

648
00:41:49.480 --> 00:41:52.440
<v Speaker 1>look out for our customers, so so when we list something,

649
00:41:53.039 --> 00:41:55.119
<v Speaker 1>you know, it kind of has our seal of approval.

650
00:41:55.119 --> 00:41:57.360
<v Speaker 1>We're not the kind of exchange that just throws stuff up.

651
00:41:57.400 --> 00:42:02.719
<v Speaker 1>See what happens now mean cooin. You know, it's more

652
00:42:02.800 --> 00:42:08.559
<v Speaker 1>challenging to understand the purpose, right to be blunt. However,

653
00:42:08.760 --> 00:42:11.800
<v Speaker 1>to your point, some of them have real communities behind it,

654
00:42:11.960 --> 00:42:16.920
<v Speaker 1>like Doge. Like Doge has a very vocal, loyal, growing

655
00:42:17.119 --> 00:42:21.320
<v Speaker 1>community around it. So in that regard as an exchange operator,

656
00:42:21.480 --> 00:42:23.239
<v Speaker 1>you know, we have to make it available. We've got

657
00:42:23.239 --> 00:42:27.480
<v Speaker 1>to make it available to you know, to customers and

658
00:42:27.519 --> 00:42:32.239
<v Speaker 1>they use it to move value around, and you know,

659
00:42:32.320 --> 00:42:36.639
<v Speaker 1>perhaps there's a set of possibilities being built on it,

660
00:42:36.760 --> 00:42:40.000
<v Speaker 1>you know, over time. But we're we won't be the

661
00:42:40.079 --> 00:42:44.280
<v Speaker 1>first to list any any new mean coin for all

662
00:42:44.320 --> 00:42:47.119
<v Speaker 1>the reasons you alluded to, Like I think there is

663
00:42:47.159 --> 00:42:53.800
<v Speaker 1>a real speculative side of this proliferation of meme coins,

664
00:42:54.000 --> 00:42:56.760
<v Speaker 1>and we don't want to really be a party to that,

665
00:42:56.920 --> 00:43:00.840
<v Speaker 1>even if there's money to be made Frankly, that's not

666
00:43:01.320 --> 00:43:03.559
<v Speaker 1>why we're in crypto. That's not what we stand for.

667
00:43:03.960 --> 00:43:09.119
<v Speaker 1>A bit stamp. I don't mind that those are out there,

668
00:43:10.000 --> 00:43:13.480
<v Speaker 1>but that's not really kind of our you know, kind

669
00:43:13.519 --> 00:43:15.280
<v Speaker 1>of our focus.

670
00:43:15.880 --> 00:43:20.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, absolutely, I think, yeah, there's there's some clean up

671
00:43:20.320 --> 00:43:21.679
<v Speaker 2>that needs to happen here. I don't know how they

672
00:43:21.760 --> 00:43:25.440
<v Speaker 2>get to regulated, but you know, I believe in the

673
00:43:25.440 --> 00:43:27.320
<v Speaker 2>free market. Like, if you want to invest in it,

674
00:43:27.559 --> 00:43:30.360
<v Speaker 2>go ahead, just know the risk. But I guess the

675
00:43:30.440 --> 00:43:33.320
<v Speaker 2>part of being able to rug people, right, the RUG

676
00:43:33.360 --> 00:43:38.039
<v Speaker 2>polls are what hurts a lot of the meme coin market,

677
00:43:38.119 --> 00:43:40.960
<v Speaker 2>and it kind of puts a bad reputation because of

678
00:43:41.039 --> 00:43:45.159
<v Speaker 2>course the mainstream headlines, oh, this guy, you know, Hoavier Malay,

679
00:43:45.280 --> 00:43:48.719
<v Speaker 2>president of Argentina, creates a mean coin of rug pulls

680
00:43:48.760 --> 00:43:51.519
<v Speaker 2>people for eighty seven million. That doesn't reflect well in

681
00:43:51.519 --> 00:43:53.119
<v Speaker 2>the market. So we have to figure out some sort

682
00:43:53.159 --> 00:43:53.639
<v Speaker 2>of balance.

683
00:43:53.920 --> 00:43:57.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's not good. Yeah. And yeah, when it gets

684
00:43:57.559 --> 00:44:04.840
<v Speaker 1>like wreckly integrated with politics, either in our country or

685
00:44:04.880 --> 00:44:07.760
<v Speaker 1>other countries, I think it really also gets complicated because

686
00:44:08.920 --> 00:44:11.519
<v Speaker 1>you know, buying the token can can be viewed I

687
00:44:11.559 --> 00:44:18.159
<v Speaker 1>think as you know, trying to create influence, and that's

688
00:44:18.360 --> 00:44:20.039
<v Speaker 1>obviously should be very separate.

689
00:44:21.239 --> 00:44:24.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, absolutely, Bobby. I got some wrap up questions here

690
00:44:25.000 --> 00:44:27.440
<v Speaker 2>for you. First, if you could create your own metaverse,

691
00:44:27.440 --> 00:44:28.199
<v Speaker 2>what would the theme be?

692
00:44:31.960 --> 00:44:35.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, yeah, let me let me go. You know,

693
00:44:35.880 --> 00:44:41.000
<v Speaker 1>this might sound corny, but one of the things that

694
00:44:41.039 --> 00:44:44.800
<v Speaker 1>intrigues me about the metaverse or meta meta versus in

695
00:44:44.840 --> 00:44:49.440
<v Speaker 1>general is like, you know, utopian ideas. So so I

696
00:44:49.480 --> 00:44:51.599
<v Speaker 1>think it would be diversity, you know, I believe it

697
00:44:51.679 --> 00:44:56.320
<v Speaker 1>or not. Like, uh, you know, if that was the

698
00:44:56.320 --> 00:45:00.960
<v Speaker 1>thematic headline and all the people that grab potated towards

699
00:45:01.000 --> 00:45:04.239
<v Speaker 1>that metaverse had that in mind, you know, I wonder

700
00:45:04.280 --> 00:45:06.000
<v Speaker 1>if it would create new possibilities.

701
00:45:07.480 --> 00:45:12.039
<v Speaker 2>Oh sure, rapid fire questions. Favorite food.

702
00:45:13.440 --> 00:45:18.320
<v Speaker 1>Food mm hm god, you know pizza.

703
00:45:19.280 --> 00:45:20.480
<v Speaker 2>Your musician or band.

704
00:45:21.960 --> 00:45:23.920
<v Speaker 1>Oh that's a really really hard one for me. I

705
00:45:24.440 --> 00:45:28.119
<v Speaker 1>I'm also a musician. I play in bands, so it's

706
00:45:28.159 --> 00:45:31.679
<v Speaker 1>a really tough one. I'll tell you one of my favorites.

707
00:45:31.800 --> 00:45:32.519
<v Speaker 1>I'll discussed the.

708
00:45:34.199 --> 00:45:37.920
<v Speaker 2>Nice favorite movie.

709
00:45:39.440 --> 00:45:45.079
<v Speaker 1>Man. I'm gonna sound like like a stereotype, but my godfather,

710
00:45:46.239 --> 00:45:55.559
<v Speaker 1>it's classic. Favorite book, favorite book, here's your room, my reputation.

711
00:45:58.119 --> 00:46:01.880
<v Speaker 1>My favorite book is actually, uh, this very very old

712
00:46:01.880 --> 00:46:04.880
<v Speaker 1>book of poems by E. Cummings mm hmm.

713
00:46:05.440 --> 00:46:06.840
<v Speaker 2>And when you're not working a bit stamp, what are

714
00:46:06.880 --> 00:46:11.239
<v Speaker 2>you doing for fun as a hobby?

715
00:46:11.519 --> 00:46:14.760
<v Speaker 1>So, as I mentioned I I I play guitar and

716
00:46:14.800 --> 00:46:21.000
<v Speaker 1>I play in bands, write songs. That's that's uh, both

717
00:46:21.039 --> 00:46:24.199
<v Speaker 1>for sanity reasons and and and to keep the other

718
00:46:24.239 --> 00:46:27.239
<v Speaker 1>side of my brain working, so that takes takes a

719
00:46:27.280 --> 00:46:31.119
<v Speaker 1>lot of time, something I truly love. I also do triathlons,

720
00:46:32.119 --> 00:46:37.519
<v Speaker 1>which keeps me moving. Uh. And then yeah, my family.

721
00:46:37.800 --> 00:46:39.960
<v Speaker 1>I've got a great family. I've been very fortunate and

722
00:46:39.960 --> 00:46:43.079
<v Speaker 1>blessed in that regard. So those those things come to mind.

723
00:46:43.599 --> 00:46:46.559
<v Speaker 2>Nice. Uh. Follow up question the guitars, because I play guitar.

724
00:46:46.920 --> 00:46:48.480
<v Speaker 2>You can't see it, but I have a less Paul,

725
00:46:48.519 --> 00:46:52.119
<v Speaker 2>I have a friender Stratton to back there acoustic. What

726
00:46:52.480 --> 00:46:53.679
<v Speaker 2>is your favorite guitar to play?

727
00:46:54.559 --> 00:46:57.440
<v Speaker 1>Well, my favorite guitar is A is a sixty eight

728
00:46:57.440 --> 00:47:02.519
<v Speaker 1>Gibson Dove that I that I have in Chicago. It's

729
00:47:02.519 --> 00:47:08.639
<v Speaker 1>an acoustic obviously. My electric is A is a telecaster. Uh.

730
00:47:08.679 --> 00:47:11.559
<v Speaker 1>And uh yeah those are those are my babies.

731
00:47:12.639 --> 00:47:14.400
<v Speaker 2>I want to get one more baby, but my wife

732
00:47:14.400 --> 00:47:18.079
<v Speaker 2>would probably kill me. Uh, gretch white Falcon. I want

733
00:47:18.119 --> 00:47:18.719
<v Speaker 2>to want to get.

734
00:47:18.800 --> 00:47:22.159
<v Speaker 1>Oh, I also want to gretch.

735
00:47:22.320 --> 00:47:25.239
<v Speaker 2>I do, yeah, my wife. My wife's already complained by

736
00:47:25.320 --> 00:47:26.840
<v Speaker 2>I'm piling up guitars here, you know.

737
00:47:28.800 --> 00:47:28.960
<v Speaker 1>Uh.

738
00:47:29.119 --> 00:47:32.079
<v Speaker 2>Bobby, great chatting with you. Love what bitstamp is doing.

739
00:47:32.119 --> 00:47:33.440
<v Speaker 2>I would love to have you back on in the

740
00:47:33.440 --> 00:47:37.199
<v Speaker 2>future as things unfold for bitstamp, especially with the integration

741
00:47:37.280 --> 00:47:39.679
<v Speaker 2>with Robin Hood and much more. Well, thank you for

742
00:47:39.760 --> 00:47:40.159
<v Speaker 2>joining me.

743
00:47:40.519 --> 00:47:42.920
<v Speaker 1>Oh, thank you, Tony. He's really really a blast and

744
00:47:43.320 --> 00:47:43.840
<v Speaker 1>anytime