1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:06,280 Speaker 1: Broadcasting from Iconic Studio A here at proven Winners, Color 2 00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:10,839 Choice Shrubs. It's time for the Gardening Simplified Show with Stacy, Hervella, me, 3 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:15,759 Rick Weiss, and our engineer and producer Adrianna Robinson. Stacy, Today, 4 00:00:15,839 --> 00:00:19,440 let's talk about backdrops and fencing and walls. A backdrop 5 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:23,280 for your landscape is just like framing a picture with 6 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:29,559 your camera. Is your background picture perfect? A backdrop behind 7 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:33,600 a photograph subject can make or break your image, and 8 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:37,200 I think you could probably say the same with your 9 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:41,280 landscape or some of the plants that you place in 10 00:00:41,359 --> 00:00:45,479 your landscape. You can also create an illusion of depth. 11 00:00:46,079 --> 00:00:49,119 What's a good depth for a layered garden? Many people 12 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:52,960 would say proceed at least five six feet out from 13 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:57,000 a wall or a fence or your home. All of 14 00:00:57,039 --> 00:01:01,679 these issues relate to adding structured to a garden. And 15 00:01:01,759 --> 00:01:05,079 I have to admit, Stacy again, you know how much 16 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:09,799 I enjoy five gallon buckets. I've gotten into screening and 17 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:11,480 walls big time. 18 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:14,519 Speaker 2: Okay, but not with five gallon buckets. Five gallon buckets 19 00:01:14,519 --> 00:01:16,879 are just as okay. I didn't know if you were 20 00:01:16,879 --> 00:01:20,000 working on some sort of new idea here with with 21 00:01:20,079 --> 00:01:23,079 the buckets. But you know, as far as backdrops go, 22 00:01:23,239 --> 00:01:24,920 if that's what we're talking about, we have to at 23 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:27,359 least mention that our backdrop has changed because we are 24 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:29,920 in meteorological fall. 25 00:01:30,079 --> 00:01:30,359 Speaker 1: Oh my. 26 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:32,359 Speaker 2: And while we're talking about the podcast, I do just 27 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:37,000 want to mention happy third anniversary our first show. Our 28 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:40,480 first episode aired the Saturday after Labor Day, so the 29 00:01:40,599 --> 00:01:43,640 day's not exactly right, but the timing is so Happy anniversary, guys. 30 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:46,239 Speaker 1: Happy anniversary. Time flies when you're having fun. 31 00:01:46,359 --> 00:01:49,719 Speaker 2: Yes, So not to derail from the garden backdrop conversation, 32 00:01:49,799 --> 00:01:51,000 I just thought I should mention it. 33 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 1: Well, I love it. I love it. So let's talk 34 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:57,239 about structure today and fencing. I've got a number of 35 00:01:57,280 --> 00:01:59,280 things to share. As a matter of fact, it'll be 36 00:01:59,319 --> 00:02:02,799 a try it before you buy it kind of segment. 37 00:02:03,879 --> 00:02:07,040 And some people use chain link fence, for example, to 38 00:02:07,359 --> 00:02:11,479 delineate their property line. I want to recommend that if 39 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:15,840 you want it to not be noticeable, make it black. 40 00:02:16,599 --> 00:02:21,439 That's my opinion. Chain link fence privacy slats are something 41 00:02:21,479 --> 00:02:24,639 that I'm putting in my fence right now. Let me 42 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:27,520 grab this here a minute for you, Stacey, and I'll pass. 43 00:02:27,319 --> 00:02:32,080 Speaker 2: That Wow for our YouTube vision in studio appearance here. Yeah, 44 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:35,159 so you're threading this through the links on the chain 45 00:02:35,199 --> 00:02:36,080 link fence, and. 46 00:02:36,199 --> 00:02:39,439 Speaker 1: Very easy to do. You just slide them into something 47 00:02:39,479 --> 00:02:42,479 they call a viper track. But what it does is 48 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:46,879 it gives you a black background to your fence and 49 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:51,360 green plants. The color green just pops when it has 50 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:57,680 a black backdrop. So inexpensive and easy. That's one of 51 00:02:57,719 --> 00:02:59,599 the things I'm doing in my landscape right now. 52 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:02,960 Speaker 2: That's a huge improvement over the classic galvanized chain link 53 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:04,639 fence that so ubiquitous. 54 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:08,879 Speaker 1: But let's talk rust here a minute. Also, I'm working 55 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:15,280 on some panels with my neighbor, and what we're using 56 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:20,840 is eight foot galvanized panels that many times you will see, 57 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:24,120 for example, like on the roof of a pole burn 58 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:30,680 using them with wood to create these backdrops or barriers 59 00:03:30,759 --> 00:03:34,960 within the landscape. And then what we found, and for 60 00:03:35,039 --> 00:03:38,759 folks watching on YouTube you can see what we're building here. 61 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:43,159 What we found was the galvanized steel when the sun's 62 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:46,759 in the right position, it will blind you, oh deer, 63 00:03:47,919 --> 00:03:52,520 oh dear, yes, and possibly burn the plant. So what 64 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:57,879 we're monking around with is to basically rough up the 65 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:02,599 galvanized surface, abraz it and then making a mixture of 66 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:06,960 vinegar and salt and spraying it on to speed up rust. 67 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:10,280 We wanted to rust, maybe take a blow torch to it. 68 00:04:10,639 --> 00:04:13,479 But it's just an example of what you can do 69 00:04:13,599 --> 00:04:19,720 to create barriers within your landscape or backdrops that really 70 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:22,759 make the plants stand out and be a focal. 71 00:04:22,439 --> 00:04:24,600 Speaker 2: P So you're working on this with your neighbor because 72 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:28,759 you're trying to develop mutual privacy or is your neighbor 73 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:30,839 into this plant backdrop idea as well. 74 00:04:31,079 --> 00:04:33,720 Speaker 1: So on next week's show, we're going to talk about 75 00:04:33,759 --> 00:04:37,519 design plants and designing within the landscape. And my next 76 00:04:37,519 --> 00:04:42,839 door neighbor is a guy who's really great at interior 77 00:04:42,959 --> 00:04:48,600 design and flipping houses. He knows nothing about plants. Okay, 78 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:52,240 yet you get them in the landscape with plants, it's 79 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:56,000 amazing how he can put things together. Well, we work 80 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:59,920 on these backdrops together between our two properties to extend 81 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,360 cate the plants, and it's just a kick in the plants. 82 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:05,759 And we're going to give you the link for those panels. 83 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:11,240 They're inexpensive, not fun to work with, but again it's 84 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:14,120 an example of some of the components that you can 85 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:17,079 use to create barriers or fencing with in your landscape. 86 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 2: That's very creative, you know. I think that people's first 87 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:22,879 instinct very often is to look for something ready made. 88 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:23,920 Speaker 1: Yes, But if you. 89 00:05:23,879 --> 00:05:26,720 Speaker 2: Want something that is more affordable, or something it's more unique, 90 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:28,519 or something that gives you a chance to kind of 91 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:31,839 express some personal style and ideas, then it pays to, 92 00:05:32,079 --> 00:05:34,279 you know, think about it and put together your own 93 00:05:34,319 --> 00:05:36,240 idea and come up with something that's even better. 94 00:05:36,399 --> 00:05:40,279 Speaker 1: Yeah. And I think transparency is a key also, So 95 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:45,000 you basically have two elements here, creating a screen that 96 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:49,120 is not transparent that really allows the plants to play often, 97 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:53,639 or a transparent screen if all you're trying to do 98 00:05:53,759 --> 00:05:57,399 is create a border and keep out deer. Now I've 99 00:05:57,439 --> 00:06:00,279 got another try it before you buy it, Sam Pole 100 00:06:00,319 --> 00:06:03,639 here for you, Stacy. For a while I was using 101 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:06,959 this material right here, which is a mesh like material. 102 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:09,199 This is a joke, and that's a joke. This material 103 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:12,279 is a joke, and you get tangled in it, you 104 00:06:12,319 --> 00:06:14,279 get frustrated. It's ridiculous. 105 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:15,839 Speaker 2: And if you buy too cheap a one ask me 106 00:06:15,879 --> 00:06:19,120 how I know it rips very easily. I've also had 107 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:22,279 birds get tangled in it. Unfortunately I was able to 108 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:24,920 rescue them and get them out. But if I hadn't been, 109 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:28,800 they would have perished in this silly netting. I once 110 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:30,759 had a baby bunny get stuck in it. It's okay, 111 00:06:30,759 --> 00:06:33,480 he got out. I got him out, but he was panicking, 112 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:38,079 you know. So yes, I have forsworn this material, this 113 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:39,480 regular deer netting. 114 00:06:39,639 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 1: Same for me. So I picked up this material. Take 115 00:06:43,519 --> 00:06:46,279 a look at that. So that is called ten X 116 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:51,079 deer fence. Great stuff comes six foot by one hundred 117 00:06:51,079 --> 00:06:54,920 foot in rolls and have a picture for you on YouTube. 118 00:06:55,399 --> 00:06:57,519 In use in my dear compound. 119 00:06:57,600 --> 00:06:59,480 Speaker 3: How do you cut it? Just with your regular. 120 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:05,639 Speaker 1: Nice or wire cutters, but again using a wire mesh 121 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:09,079 or something like this ten X material to create this 122 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:13,079 deer barrier makes a world of difference within your landscape. 123 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:15,920 You don't even know it's there. You can basically see 124 00:07:15,959 --> 00:07:20,639 through it again using the color black. But it gives 125 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:23,519 you the result that you want, and that is to 126 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:26,199 put up a barrier and keep the deer nice. 127 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 2: You know. In my garden tour that we recently posted 128 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:31,040 on YouTube, I talk a bit about the wire mesh 129 00:07:31,079 --> 00:07:34,160 that I've used to surround my vegetable garden and it 130 00:07:34,199 --> 00:07:36,639 is galvanized, but I really like it because it goes 131 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:39,680 with the metal of the tea posts that we used 132 00:07:40,439 --> 00:07:43,399 to make it, and it does kind of create I 133 00:07:43,439 --> 00:07:47,959 guess I would say maybe slightly industrial chic kind of vibes. 134 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:51,839 But it was very low cost, It's super functional, and 135 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:54,519 I'm very happy with it. I'm having the best vegetable 136 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:58,279 garden ever this year with the new backdrop surrounding there. 137 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 1: I love that. That's really good. Right, well, you know, 138 00:08:00,839 --> 00:08:04,240 you think about it. The picket fence is something that 139 00:08:04,319 --> 00:08:09,360 we associate with small town America, colonial roots, cape cod 140 00:08:09,519 --> 00:08:11,920 that sort of thing. But there is so much more 141 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:17,360 than picket fence or dog eared fencing. There are all 142 00:08:17,399 --> 00:08:19,639 sorts of options, and I guess that's the point that 143 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:22,720 I'm trying to make. And they also make a big 144 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:26,879 difference as it relates to structure within your landscape. Helps 145 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:30,839 give some depth, some background. And then again, if you, 146 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:34,639 for example, use the color black, green and other colors 147 00:08:34,759 --> 00:08:39,600 really tend to pop out and the fence is less noticeable. 148 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:42,279 But of course, with these slats that you can put 149 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:47,440 through a chain link fence, there's a variety of colors 150 00:08:47,519 --> 00:08:50,279 you can choose from from gray to burgundy to blue. 151 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:52,720 Speaker 3: Oh, so you could do like a whole pattern. 152 00:08:52,919 --> 00:08:56,399 Speaker 1: Exactly what chance all this kind of fun stuff. And 153 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:59,320 that's the kind of stuff I love to do in 154 00:08:59,399 --> 00:09:02,600 my life landscape, just like Old Ned. You know, I 155 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:07,000 always talk about Old Ned and my fencing. Limerick today 156 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:10,879 relates to Old Ned. Old Ned needs to decompress the 157 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:15,720 deer his property transgress. Despite all his rantings, they ate 158 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:21,080 all his plantings and left Old Ned defenceless. Old Ned's 159 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:25,159 plantings had grown lush, but now are reduced to just mush. 160 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:29,879 He kicked the stubble in disgust, his balance failed to adjust, 161 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,960 landing on his keyster in the brush. There you go. Oh, 162 00:09:34,159 --> 00:09:36,320 rough day for a rough day for Old Ned. And 163 00:09:36,399 --> 00:09:39,279 keister is a word in the Merriam Webster Dictionary. 164 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 2: So if you're playing scrabble and you have a K, 165 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:45,919 that's a good one to keep in mind. 166 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:58,320 Speaker 1: Exactly, I'll bear that in well. Sorry, oh, everyone needs 167 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:01,960 a good fence around their property or some good backdrops 168 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:05,559 to provide that structure. And by the way, along that 169 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:07,159 line and segment four, I got to. 170 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:09,440 Speaker 3: Give you a hot takee oh, I can't wait. 171 00:10:09,759 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I'm gonna let it rip, Okay. 172 00:10:13,279 --> 00:10:16,039 Speaker 3: All right, I will be counting the minutes. 173 00:10:16,759 --> 00:10:20,360 Speaker 1: So a wire fence is ideal if you want transparency 174 00:10:20,399 --> 00:10:23,080 to see through it. And then of course the reverse 175 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:26,240 would be a screen that you can build to provide 176 00:10:26,279 --> 00:10:32,080 that great backdrop that really shows off your plants. You 177 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:37,919 can use reclaimed fence posts, old wood. You can grow 178 00:10:38,039 --> 00:10:41,480 vines through a fence. Of course, in a spellier fence 179 00:10:41,759 --> 00:10:45,759 I've seen cool a spell your fences, a steel fence, 180 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:49,159 a large gap fence. If you have large gaps in 181 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:51,559 your fence, it's not going to keep the deer out, 182 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:54,919 but it's going to maximize natural light. And the result 183 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:58,000 is the yard that looks more welcoming from the outside 184 00:10:58,039 --> 00:11:04,159 and feels larger from the inside. Stained wood, horizontal slatting, 185 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:09,759 wrought iron, wooden, wire, picket, so many different. 186 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 3: Choices, so many options. 187 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 1: I want them to You want it to kind of 188 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:16,799 sink into the background. You don't want it to steal 189 00:11:16,879 --> 00:11:20,960 the show, but actually just enhance the plant material and 190 00:11:21,799 --> 00:11:24,440 make it look sharper. So we'll talk more about that 191 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:27,840 coming up in segment four. We'll see how Stacey ties 192 00:11:27,879 --> 00:11:31,279 this all together in Plants on Trial, that's coming up 193 00:11:31,279 --> 00:11:34,879 after the short break. Here on the Gardening Simplified. 194 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 2: Ship, beautify your home and community with proven Winn's Color 195 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:46,320 Choice Shrubs with over three hundred and twenty five unique 196 00:11:46,399 --> 00:11:49,559 varieties to choose from. There's a flowering shrubber evergreen for 197 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:52,799 every taste and every space. Just look for the distinctive 198 00:11:52,799 --> 00:11:55,559 white container your local garden center or learn more at 199 00:11:55,600 --> 00:12:01,600 proven Winner's Color Choice dot com. Gardening Friends and welcome 200 00:12:01,639 --> 00:12:03,919 back to the Gardening Simplified Show, where the order of 201 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:07,679 the day is Fences and backdrops a very key part 202 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:12,480 of any good garden or landscape. And sometimes the fence 203 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:15,960 is about strict utilitarian like just you know, keeping the 204 00:12:16,039 --> 00:12:20,240 kids and dog within the parameters of the yard. Sometimes 205 00:12:20,279 --> 00:12:23,600 it's decoratives, sometimes it's both, and sometimes you know, it's 206 00:12:23,639 --> 00:12:25,720 a living thing like a plant. And you said, Rick, 207 00:12:25,759 --> 00:12:28,360 everybody needs a fence, and that is so true. I 208 00:12:28,399 --> 00:12:30,919 desperately need a fence. And it occurred to me after 209 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:33,919 you said that that probably a lot of listeners who 210 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:37,320 hear me complain about all the deer in my yard say, well, jeez, Stacy, 211 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:40,720 why don't you just get a fence already? Well, I have, 212 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:44,279 what is probably the worst possible type of yard for 213 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:47,519 a fence. That is why I don't have a fence. 214 00:12:47,639 --> 00:12:49,919 So my driveway is all the way at the right 215 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:52,919 side of my property, so if I was going to 216 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:53,960 fence off the yard. 217 00:12:54,799 --> 00:12:55,799 Speaker 3: My garage is also all the. 218 00:12:55,799 --> 00:12:58,200 Speaker 2: Way in the back corner of my property. So if 219 00:12:58,240 --> 00:12:59,840 I was going to fence off the yard, I would 220 00:13:00,039 --> 00:13:04,120 need a gate. And you know, my house doesn't really 221 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:06,480 quite rise to the occasion of an automatic gate. 222 00:13:06,759 --> 00:13:08,679 Speaker 3: That's a little bit much for my mind. 223 00:13:08,919 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 1: One of those gates like the Beverly Hills. 224 00:13:13,399 --> 00:13:14,559 Speaker 3: I love it. I love it. 225 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:16,639 Speaker 2: It might be a little overkill from where I live. 226 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:20,639 So I have that whole issue with the gate. And 227 00:13:20,799 --> 00:13:23,559 you know, I've gotten I've gotten quotes on getting a 228 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:26,679 fence and trying to take care of this, but it's just, 229 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:30,000 you know, the gate is always a deal breaker for 230 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:31,519 us because they're like, oh, it's going to be a 231 00:13:31,519 --> 00:13:34,000 total pain in the winter, the ice and snow is 232 00:13:34,039 --> 00:13:36,399 going to build up, and you know you leave the 233 00:13:36,399 --> 00:13:38,879 gate open one night, well then the deer like, hey, 234 00:13:38,879 --> 00:13:42,279 it's a field day. So I have fences on either 235 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:44,840 side of my property that belong to my neighbors that 236 00:13:44,879 --> 00:13:48,799 they put up, and I'm growing a back fence line 237 00:13:49,039 --> 00:13:52,200 of junipers, so I planted that this is their third year. 238 00:13:53,159 --> 00:13:57,039 It's a variety called blue arrow, actually is it. Yeah, 239 00:13:57,039 --> 00:14:01,320 it's blue arrow, and they're looking good, but they're a 240 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:04,000 little bit slower to get established. But I have found 241 00:14:04,039 --> 00:14:06,720 really that that background of plants, I mean, that's where 242 00:14:06,759 --> 00:14:09,720 my vibe is. So even though I have a lot 243 00:14:09,759 --> 00:14:12,480 of frustrations about being unable to completely fence off my 244 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:17,000 yard easily, it has provided other opportunities as these things 245 00:14:17,039 --> 00:14:20,399 go in gardening. And I'm really happy with the way 246 00:14:20,519 --> 00:14:23,279 that that backdrop of blue erow jennifer, which is not 247 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:25,159 a proven winter's colored choice shrub, so that is not 248 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:27,519 today's plant Montreal. I'm getting to that in one moment, 249 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:30,519 but really happy with the color and texture that that 250 00:14:30,679 --> 00:14:32,879 is bringing in. As that knits together and grows more, 251 00:14:33,519 --> 00:14:39,000 it'll be a great privacy and plant backdrop for my yard. 252 00:14:39,799 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 1: I like the way you describe that knitting together because 253 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:47,399 when you look at American history, for example, in the 254 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:52,399 Plains States, osag George, Oh, yeah, and how that would 255 00:14:52,519 --> 00:14:56,879 knit together and create this fence that was just unreal. 256 00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:59,279 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you see you do still see them sometimes 257 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:02,960 around Michigan, but certainly more when you go into like 258 00:15:03,039 --> 00:15:07,000 the lower Midwest Missouri, Oklahoma. Down there, you'll see a 259 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:09,840 lot of those old o sage orange fences, which are 260 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:14,080 very cool. But you're probably thinking that today's plant on 261 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:16,799 trial then is a backdrop plant, a plant that can 262 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:18,559 be used as a backdrop, But we would be wrong. 263 00:15:18,799 --> 00:15:19,159 Speaker 3: It is not. 264 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:23,639 Speaker 2: It is a plant that benefits from being planted in 265 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:29,240 front of a backdrop. Oh nice, because some plants really 266 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:32,799 need other plants or other structure to set them off. 267 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:36,480 And I find that this is true very much so 268 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:40,840 in the world of purple and black plants. Love them 269 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:44,240 beautiful plants. You fall in love at the garden center, 270 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:45,559 You get it home, you put it in the ground, 271 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:47,799 and you're like, wait, where did it go? These new 272 00:15:47,919 --> 00:15:50,840 darkly fucaras you know that are like near black, so 273 00:15:50,919 --> 00:15:53,039 beautiful you can't wait to get them home. And then 274 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:55,120 you plant it and you're like, it blends directly in 275 00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:59,919 with the soil. And similarly, today's plant on trial lace 276 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:03,679 step Elderberry can very much do that. It can become 277 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:07,840 kind of like a black hole or blending in unless 278 00:16:07,879 --> 00:16:12,039 it has something else planted behind it. Or around it 279 00:16:12,519 --> 00:16:14,960 to set it off. So a lot of people are 280 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:18,360 familiar with our black lace elderberry, so plant that's been 281 00:16:18,399 --> 00:16:20,840 around for a very long time, still one of our 282 00:16:20,879 --> 00:16:24,480 best sellers to this day. And black lace elderberry is 283 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:28,360 very similar to the native American elderberries that you will 284 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:31,559 see blooming in June, but it was developed in Europe. 285 00:16:31,559 --> 00:16:34,399 It is thought to be more of a European species, 286 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:38,080 but it looks and acts basically just like our standard 287 00:16:38,279 --> 00:16:43,679 Zambucus canadensis or our elderberry, but instead of green foliage, 288 00:16:44,159 --> 00:16:48,840 it has dark purple black foliage, and it's very very lacy, 289 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:51,600 as you might guess by the name black lace. And 290 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:56,000 so it's finally cut and gives it just this incredible 291 00:16:56,000 --> 00:17:00,000 texture and as beautiful and alluring as that dark foliage is. 292 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:01,879 Like I said one, sometimes when you get it home, 293 00:17:02,799 --> 00:17:05,000 unless you have something behind it, it's just like a 294 00:17:05,039 --> 00:17:08,039 black hole in the landscape, and you know, you see it, 295 00:17:08,319 --> 00:17:10,599 and it's like it kind of just like sucks all 296 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:13,160 the life out of the garden. And it should of 297 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:16,440 course be you know, vivacious and interesting. So I have 298 00:17:16,559 --> 00:17:18,680 found because I do have a number of laced up 299 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:21,359 elderberries in my garden because I love them. They're so 300 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:25,240 cool that they really benefit from being planted against something. 301 00:17:25,279 --> 00:17:29,279 They have everything that black lace has, except black lace 302 00:17:29,319 --> 00:17:31,480 gets to be six to ten feet tall and wide, 303 00:17:31,559 --> 00:17:35,079 so that is a very big potential black hole in 304 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:39,079 your landscape if you're not citing it carefully. Lace up 305 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:41,240 elderberry gets to be six to ten feet tall but 306 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:44,559 only three to five feet wide, so it's a narrow, 307 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:48,400 fastigit plant. But I have actually found that this more 308 00:17:48,599 --> 00:17:53,839 unusual habit to me necessitates it being planted against something, 309 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:58,200 perhaps even more so so that it looks deliberate. That 310 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:02,799 really statuesque kind of habit that it develops is best accentuated, 311 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:04,880 and I think there's a lot of ways you can 312 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:07,160 do that. I think it looks fabulous up against my 313 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:10,799 blue arrow junipers, so you kind of have that juxtaposition 314 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:14,480 of the purply black foliage against the blue junipers. 315 00:18:14,519 --> 00:18:14,720 Speaker 3: YEP. 316 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:17,279 Speaker 2: I also have one that I planted against my orange 317 00:18:17,279 --> 00:18:21,279 brick garage. Oh that looks really cool and kind of 318 00:18:21,799 --> 00:18:25,920 sighted it so that it would almost grow like a 319 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:29,440 you know, like a shadow puppet being projected onto the wall, 320 00:18:30,559 --> 00:18:33,480 and that really lets the color pop. It really lets 321 00:18:33,519 --> 00:18:37,119 the structure pop. And it really I think makes the 322 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:41,839 case for plants, you know, being planted in a cooperative 323 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:44,680 way in the landscape that accentuates everything. 324 00:18:45,039 --> 00:18:48,200 Speaker 1: I agree. And the backdrop will give you that illusion 325 00:18:48,759 --> 00:18:51,640 of depth. And as I said at the outset, if 326 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:54,480 you're taking a picture of a person, a portrait, the 327 00:18:54,519 --> 00:18:59,079 backdrop can mean everything as it relates to your focal point. 328 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:01,960 We learn that in elementary school when they gave us 329 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:06,279 three or four different backdrop choices for our school picture, right, yeah, 330 00:19:06,319 --> 00:19:07,920 and they were all corny and stupid. 331 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:09,759 Speaker 3: But now they have way more. 332 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:13,279 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, we had the mostly you could get 333 00:19:13,279 --> 00:19:16,680 the space lasers if you were born in the eighties anyway, 334 00:19:17,799 --> 00:19:21,680 So lace up elderberry. It's a great space saver. It's 335 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:24,319 a very versatile plant in the landscape. But again I 336 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:27,039 have found over and over again, and this actually probably 337 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:29,920 dates back to my horticulture school when we were learning 338 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:33,559 about thundercloud dark leaf cherry, probably one of the most 339 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:36,519 popular street trees, at least on the East coast, and 340 00:19:36,759 --> 00:19:40,039 the teacher said, you know, they look like a black 341 00:19:40,039 --> 00:19:42,400 hole in the landscape. And so I the first time 342 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:45,480 that made that connection, it was like, yeah, they need 343 00:19:45,519 --> 00:19:47,640 something to help set them off so they're not just 344 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:50,079 sucking all the life out of the garden. Now, there's 345 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:52,240 lots of creative ways that you can do that, but 346 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:57,279 I think that laced up is one that really lends 347 00:19:57,319 --> 00:20:02,680 itself to some creative gardening and creative placement. Like black lace, 348 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:06,119 it's sister plant. It looks amazing when it flowers, especially 349 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:09,559 because it has bright pink flowers, so that really helps 350 00:20:09,559 --> 00:20:11,920 to kind of create that contrast that keeps it from 351 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:13,640 looking like a black hole. But of course the flowers 352 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:15,960 last for you know, a couple of weeks, and then 353 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:19,400 when it forms berries, the berries are black too. So 354 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:21,640 so much texture and life in this plant. But you 355 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:25,200 really need to, I think, be creative in how you 356 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:30,400 cite it to let that fully come through. So whether 357 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:34,680 that means a hedge of tall evergreens, hedge of tall perennials, 358 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:37,200 you know, certainly it could be planted within something like 359 00:20:37,279 --> 00:20:42,440 my silphium very tall, and that could work as well, 360 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:44,920 but you really want to let it interplay with other colors, 361 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:49,480 other textures. Now, lace up elderberry, like black lace elderberry, 362 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:51,960 is not the most heat tolerant plant. And I know 363 00:20:52,519 --> 00:20:55,160 I always disappoint our warm climate friends when I say that. 364 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:58,839 But these elderberries are hardy down to USTA Zone four 365 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:01,960 and heat tolerant only through USDA Zone seven. The plants 366 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:05,680 will actually grow in warmer climates, but they will not 367 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:08,920 be black. They will be very, very green. It's just 368 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:11,119 like the same kind of thing that happens with panicle hydrange, 369 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:13,880 just not developing their full color in warm climates, and 370 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:15,920 so that's kind of, you know, takes away a lot 371 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:18,559 of the funds. So this is definitely a plant that 372 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:20,720 is for cooler climates. And the good news if you 373 00:21:20,799 --> 00:21:24,000 live in like zone four, have trouble growing Japanese maple, 374 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:27,279 this is a great plant to get a lot of 375 00:21:27,279 --> 00:21:30,240 that same kind of you know, look and charm. Although 376 00:21:30,279 --> 00:21:33,519 it does not get grateful color as Japanese maples do. 377 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,960 Grows in full sun to parts on. I have it 378 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,240 in both here in Michigan. I have not noticed any 379 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:42,960 substantial difference really in how black the foliage becomes whether 380 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:45,279 it's in parts on or full sun. So that is 381 00:21:45,319 --> 00:21:48,240 a very good thing if it's outdoors. And of course, 382 00:21:48,319 --> 00:21:51,319 like I was, de Elderberry's good dear resistance, uh huh, 383 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,319 so love it lots of unique ways to use this 384 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:57,559 if you want something that's really different that you've never 385 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:01,240 seen before, and you have a special place where you 386 00:22:01,279 --> 00:22:04,000 can really just put something and enjoy it, especially if 387 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:07,319 you like, you know, those weeping spruces that look like people, 388 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:10,240 as Lisa Roper was talking about in our Follies episode 389 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:12,960 to at Chanta Clear, this is another great way to 390 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,000 do that much faster growing. So it'll get you that 391 00:22:15,039 --> 00:22:18,359 great look much faster. So you will find a lastep 392 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:21,319 elderberry at your local garden center. If you need to 393 00:22:21,319 --> 00:22:23,440 find a local garden center, just visit proven Winner's Color 394 00:22:23,519 --> 00:22:26,000 Choice dot com. We've got you covered there. We're going 395 00:22:26,039 --> 00:22:27,480 to take a little break. When we come back, we're 396 00:22:27,519 --> 00:22:37,480 opening up the mailbag, so please stay tuned at Proven 397 00:22:37,519 --> 00:22:40,720 Winner's Color Choice Shrubs. We know that a better landscape 398 00:22:40,759 --> 00:22:43,880 starts with a better shrub. Our team of experts tests 399 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:46,720 and evaluates all of our flowering shrubs in Evergreens for 400 00:22:46,799 --> 00:22:50,119 eight to ten years to ensure they outperform what's already 401 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:54,400 on the market. For easycare, reliable, beautiful shrubs to accentuate 402 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,319 your home and express your personal style, look for Proven 403 00:22:57,319 --> 00:22:59,920 Winners Shrubs in the distinctive white container at your low 404 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,000 garden center or learn more at proven Winners, color choice 405 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:07,960 dot com. Creating's gardening friends, and welcome back to the 406 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:13,200 Gardening Simplified Show. Where it is the meteorological start to fall, 407 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:16,799 not the astronomical one. We still have a couple more weeks. 408 00:23:16,839 --> 00:23:18,720 So as we were saying last week, you can take 409 00:23:18,759 --> 00:23:20,359 your pick. If you want it to be fall, you 410 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:22,279 can pretend it's fall. If you still want it to 411 00:23:22,319 --> 00:23:24,440 be summer, you can just go along with astronomical and 412 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:28,400 you get a couple more weeks of summer summer, even 413 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:31,279 if the weather is making it a little bit difficult 414 00:23:31,319 --> 00:23:34,440 for you to believe that it is indeed still summer. 415 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:36,759 But the light is fantastic right now. The sun is 416 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:41,920 just beautiful. And as you wind down your garden for 417 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,119 the season, perhaps you have questions about what you should 418 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:46,519 or shouldn't do, in which case I invite you to 419 00:23:46,559 --> 00:23:48,960 reach out to us at Gardening Simplified on air dot com. 420 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:52,240 There's a contact button you can send us your question, and, 421 00:23:52,319 --> 00:23:54,160 of course, because we do want you to get answers 422 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,240 to your questions and we can't answer that many questions 423 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,440 on each episode, you can also reach out to us 424 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:01,480 at proven Winner's Color Choice dot com and use the 425 00:24:01,519 --> 00:24:04,640 contact there and you will get a personalized answer from 426 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:08,880 a horticulturist, not a robot or an AI or an 427 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,680 LM or anything like that, from someone who actually cares 428 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,680 about your success. So please don't hesitate to do that 429 00:24:14,839 --> 00:24:17,559 if you are sitting there wondering about something. 430 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:20,079 Speaker 3: We also love to hear from people who. 431 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:24,519 Speaker 2: Want to share their triumphs, their hot takes, their ideas 432 00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:29,000 and show us your backdrops. There you go, and to 433 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:32,799 that end, our listener and fan Jackie sent a photo 434 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:36,480 of her folly and it is a gazebo, so of 435 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:39,559 course a gazebo is useful, but because it is a folly, 436 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,079 she went the extra mile and put this kind of 437 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:46,039 fun cupula on top that calls to mind like a 438 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:49,839 lighthouse or a widow's walk in a coastal home. So 439 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,680 it has like a little bump out with windows on it. 440 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:53,359 Speaker 3: And it's right on the. 441 00:24:53,319 --> 00:24:57,319 Speaker 2: Shore of Lake Erie. Yeah, so a very cute little 442 00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,519 folly there and looks like a very fun place spend time. 443 00:25:00,559 --> 00:25:01,559 So thanks for that, Jackie. 444 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,680 Speaker 1: There are so many great gardeners along the lake shore 445 00:25:04,799 --> 00:25:08,519 of Lake Erie in Ohio. Oh yeah, I can't believe 446 00:25:08,559 --> 00:25:09,000 the number. 447 00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:13,359 Speaker 2: Like Jackie, Cleveland is an absolute gardening destination. The bit 448 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:15,960 which is people not something people would expect for you 449 00:25:16,079 --> 00:25:19,079 to say. But if you ever get fortunate enough to 450 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:21,359 go to a private garden tours in Cleveland, I have 451 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:23,640 seen gardens that nobody would ever. 452 00:25:23,519 --> 00:25:25,119 Speaker 3: Expect sure to be in Cleveland. 453 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,440 Speaker 2: Lake Touny, I think that might be south of Cleveland, 454 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:31,000 but a lot of very cool stuff there. 455 00:25:31,079 --> 00:25:34,359 Speaker 1: So nice. Well, Ronnie writes to us, can you let 456 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:38,920 me know if I can Chelsea chop my el Nino chetalpa? 457 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,279 Every year, I have a new one planted right near 458 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:44,640 some raised beds. Don't want it to get very big. 459 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,839 I can move it technically, but I'm running out of space. 460 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,880 My only available space other than that would be over 461 00:25:51,039 --> 00:25:54,400 gas or sewer lines, which makes me a little nervous. 462 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:58,079 I look forward to your response. Thank you. Well, this 463 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,000 is a plant that does get pretty big. 464 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,319 Speaker 2: It does get big, and you know, I've been having 465 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:06,799 a very interesting time learning from this plant. As everyone knows, 466 00:26:06,839 --> 00:26:09,799 I do love it in the fragrance is amazing. So 467 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,279 in my yard what I do is I cut it 468 00:26:12,319 --> 00:26:15,680 back very hard in spring, so I do wait until 469 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:19,240 the foliage starts to come out. And what I've found 470 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,400 for me is this plant does not get as huge 471 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:26,440 as it potentially can for two reasons. Well three One 472 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:30,640 I cut it back. Two I have my soils very 473 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:34,759 very dry, and it's in full sun. So all those 474 00:26:34,759 --> 00:26:37,440 things basically combined to kind of stress. I don't want 475 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:39,319 to say stress it out, because it still performs great. 476 00:26:39,799 --> 00:26:41,400 But if this is this is one of those plants 477 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:45,240 that if it's in all ideal conditions, getting regular moisture, 478 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,440 you know, all of that, then it's going to grow 479 00:26:47,559 --> 00:26:49,400 a lot more. If you live in a warm climate, 480 00:26:49,799 --> 00:26:52,680 it's going to grow a lot more than it will 481 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,880 for us here in Michigan. But as I've described on 482 00:26:55,920 --> 00:27:00,319 the show before, cutting something back isn't always a great 483 00:27:00,319 --> 00:27:02,359 way to keep it small because what happens as that 484 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:07,039 root system gets larger and larger and more established, it's 485 00:27:07,079 --> 00:27:09,880 just a bigger engine to fuel growth after you cut 486 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,640 it back. And so it's not really like, Okay, I 487 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:14,519 cut it back, and now we'll only grow back, you know, 488 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:15,359 three feet. 489 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:16,799 Speaker 3: It will be like, oh, I. 490 00:27:16,759 --> 00:27:19,200 Speaker 2: Have this huge root system, so surprise, here's ten feet 491 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,559 of growth, you know, for this summer. But what you 492 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:24,799 can do, I think, and what I have found is 493 00:27:24,839 --> 00:27:27,200 that this is a plant. It definitely blooms on new wood, 494 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,799 so it doesn't create It creates basically one kind of 495 00:27:30,839 --> 00:27:36,119 flower cluster for each tip that forms. So you know, 496 00:27:36,279 --> 00:27:39,400 you get the initial bloom in early summer or you 497 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,799 know about June for us here in Michigan, on the 498 00:27:41,799 --> 00:27:43,640 growth that came out in spring, and then as it 499 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,960 starts to branch out, that's when you get those subsequent 500 00:27:47,079 --> 00:27:49,279 blooms and that's what keeps it blooming. So I have 501 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:52,279 heard from some people in very warm climates where the 502 00:27:52,319 --> 00:27:54,119 growth is maybe going to shut down a bit when 503 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:56,799 it's very hot, that they aren't getting as long of 504 00:27:56,839 --> 00:28:00,039 a bloom time as we are seeing in Michigan. But 505 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,079 in that case, I think doing a Chelsea chop or 506 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:06,079 which is to say, cutting it back in in you 507 00:28:06,079 --> 00:28:09,480 know June somewhere around the Chelsea Flower Show in England. 508 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,359 I think that what that would do is it will 509 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,680 delay that first bloom, but it will cause branching and 510 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,400 then you will have a lot more flowers on it. 511 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 1: Agreed. 512 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:22,880 Speaker 2: So it is largely a question of where you live 513 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:25,480 in your climate, but you can certainly do it. And 514 00:28:25,519 --> 00:28:27,559 the other thing about these types of things is, you know, 515 00:28:27,559 --> 00:28:30,079 of course we're always happy to help, but something like this, 516 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:32,160 it's not really going to harm the plant. The worse 517 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:34,640 it's going to happen is it doesn't bloom. It's always 518 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:36,799 worth taking an experiment on. You know. We'd love to 519 00:28:36,799 --> 00:28:39,680 hear that from you, but you know, like as long 520 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:41,640 as you're like, okay, well, I'm willing to forego the 521 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:45,680 flowers this year in the interest of learning about this plant, 522 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:47,880 you know, that's that's that's how your garden. 523 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:48,720 Speaker 3: That's what gardening is. 524 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:51,559 Speaker 1: If you're keeping score at home. We're talking about al 525 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:56,279 Nino chitalpa and I have one in my landscape and 526 00:28:56,319 --> 00:28:59,039 I've been amazed at its growth Stacey, and I think 527 00:28:59,079 --> 00:29:01,160 my approach is going to be similar to a bud 528 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:03,839 lea a bud lea. When I cut it back hard 529 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:07,319 in spring, I think I benefit from more flowers in 530 00:29:07,359 --> 00:29:07,720 some ways. 531 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:09,680 Speaker 2: Oh definitely. This is one of those plants. So yeah, 532 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:12,480 don't be afraid unless you're growing it as a small tree, 533 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,599 which you certainly can do. If you're growing it as 534 00:29:14,599 --> 00:29:17,119 a shrub, yeah, get in there, cut it back and 535 00:29:17,359 --> 00:29:18,720 it'll be none the worse for the wear. 536 00:29:19,279 --> 00:29:22,359 Speaker 1: Debbie writs to us, I just purchased a let's dance 537 00:29:22,519 --> 00:29:26,720 can do Hydrangea? I live in main zone five B. 538 00:29:27,119 --> 00:29:29,440 Is it okay to plant now the end of August? 539 00:29:29,519 --> 00:29:32,359 Or should I wait until spring? Also? If I do 540 00:29:32,519 --> 00:29:34,440 plant now, should I fertilize? 541 00:29:34,559 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 3: Okay? Now? 542 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,759 Speaker 2: I wanted to answer Debbie's question on air today because 543 00:29:37,799 --> 00:29:40,279 it's probably a question that a lot of people have 544 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,400 about can they plant things right now? And normally when 545 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:47,319 you are pushing your hardiness zone, or you're planting something 546 00:29:47,359 --> 00:29:50,440 that is susceptible to a winter damage, which most hydrange 547 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:55,519 of macropillas definitely are, we usually recommend waiting till spring. 548 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,279 On the other hand, here we are it's fall, there's 549 00:29:58,359 --> 00:30:01,559 bargains galore in the garden center, and that plant will 550 00:30:01,559 --> 00:30:04,240 almost certainly be much happier planted than it would be 551 00:30:04,279 --> 00:30:07,920 trying to overwinter it in its container. So the answer 552 00:30:08,119 --> 00:30:11,079 is yes, you should plant it, even if it is 553 00:30:11,119 --> 00:30:13,480 a temporary planting, because you're going to be, you know, 554 00:30:13,559 --> 00:30:16,640 waiting for something to shake out or not sure where 555 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,079 you want to put it. It is better for anything 556 00:30:19,079 --> 00:30:22,279 that you get to spend winter in the ground than 557 00:30:22,359 --> 00:30:24,920 to spend it in the container. But absolutely, under no 558 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:30,240 circumstances should you fertilize, especially big leaf hydrangs like let's 559 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,279 stands can do is because that will just push a 560 00:30:33,319 --> 00:30:36,279 lot of soft growth that will actually make the plant 561 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:40,799 more susceptible to winter damage. This is what everybody in 562 00:30:40,839 --> 00:30:44,160 the industry does. They start dialing back the moisture and 563 00:30:44,279 --> 00:30:48,960 water and fertilizer on big leaf hydranges by about late 564 00:30:49,119 --> 00:30:53,000 July early August. It's a very crucial part. Hydrangeas are 565 00:30:53,079 --> 00:30:57,519 very sensitive to having the abundance of resources. You know, 566 00:30:57,519 --> 00:31:00,319 that will let them get bigger if they have all 567 00:31:00,359 --> 00:31:04,920 of those resources. So it's important to kind of curtail 568 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,680 those resources so that the plant can enter dormancy, harden 569 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,359 off all of its growth and foliage, and that will 570 00:31:11,359 --> 00:31:13,319 give it a much better winter and a much better 571 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,480 year ahead. So do not fertilize any hydranges right now. 572 00:31:17,119 --> 00:31:20,240 Save that until the spring, even if they're brand new. 573 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:24,799 Speaker 1: I would agree probably naturally, there are plenty of nutrients 574 00:31:24,799 --> 00:31:27,519 in the soil. Anyhow, I think it's more important to 575 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,720 mulch it. Yes, agree, get it in the ground, and 576 00:31:30,799 --> 00:31:33,200 I think you're going to be surprised DEBI and main 577 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:37,400 zone five B. Yes, the air temperatures can drop pretty 578 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:40,319 quick and it can get pretty cold heading into November, 579 00:31:40,559 --> 00:31:44,359 but that soil stays warm for a while, having benefited 580 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:45,759 from a long summer. 581 00:31:45,519 --> 00:31:47,400 Speaker 2: Right, So that means the roots are growing and it's 582 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:49,359 doing everything that you want it to do. But you 583 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:54,400 definitely don't want it to go into winter on human terms. 584 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,279 You want it to go into winter on hydrangea terms. 585 00:31:57,319 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 3: And you know where. 586 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 2: It's another great point that you made. When you buy 587 00:32:01,519 --> 00:32:03,920 a new plant from the garden center. Honestly, whether it's 588 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:07,319 summer or spring, summer or fall, they have a time 589 00:32:07,359 --> 00:32:11,519 release fertilizer incorporated in their. Chances are most places will 590 00:32:11,559 --> 00:32:15,799 have been fertilizing with some regularity anyway, So for new plants, 591 00:32:16,079 --> 00:32:19,119 like their nutritional needs are met, you don't really need 592 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:21,680 to go out on a limb and try to accommodate them. 593 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:25,480 Speaker 1: Being a person who's always picking up plants well into fall, 594 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:28,279 I can tell you that I've got plenty of those 595 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:33,200 time release fertilizer granules in the carpet of my car 596 00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,400 and in between the seats that I end up vacuuming out. 597 00:32:36,559 --> 00:32:40,559 Speaker 2: Oh yes, well, your car is well nutrition anyway, So 598 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:41,279 thank you. 599 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:42,519 Speaker 3: We're going to take a little break. 600 00:32:42,599 --> 00:32:44,759 Speaker 2: When we come back, we're picking up our conversation on 601 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:53,839 backdrops and fences, so police stay tuned. Thanks for listening 602 00:32:53,839 --> 00:32:56,519 to the Gardening Simplified podcast, brought to you by Proven 603 00:32:56,519 --> 00:32:59,640 Winners Color Choice Shrubs. Our award winning flowering shrubs and 604 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,440 everga means are chiled and tested by experts with your 605 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:07,799 success in mind. Learn more at Proven winnerscolor Choice dot com. 606 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:10,480 Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Gardening Simplified show. As we talk 607 00:33:10,519 --> 00:33:15,680 about structure in the garden, you know, structure, shape and form. 608 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:20,880 It enhances a landscape. It provides year round interest. If 609 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:22,880 you're one of those people who gets the blues in 610 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:26,440 winter like me, if you've got some cool structures or 611 00:33:26,519 --> 00:33:30,279 backdrops in the garden, maybe a dying vine from the 612 00:33:30,319 --> 00:33:33,960 previous season that's on the structure, at least it helps 613 00:33:34,039 --> 00:33:38,759 give you some interest during the winter period. A fence 614 00:33:38,839 --> 00:33:42,759 also extends the architecture of a house to the edges 615 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:46,000 of the property. And I also think that if you 616 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:49,960 have a tight spot or a tight garden area, if 617 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:53,880 you use white it can kind of enclose that space. 618 00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:56,759 But when you use dark colors, or a black fence. 619 00:33:57,079 --> 00:34:01,519 It actually makes the space feel larger and it just 620 00:34:01,559 --> 00:34:04,720 feels so much more comfortable to me. And again, I 621 00:34:04,839 --> 00:34:08,880 believe that it makes a great backdrop to the plant material. 622 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:13,199 So you want you want that situation where you have 623 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:17,679 a backdrop, but you don't want to feel penned in, 624 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:21,159 so to speak, which leads me to my hot take. 625 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,599 We're entering the fall season. So you know how much 626 00:34:25,639 --> 00:34:31,039 I love summer, Stacey, But there's one thing about summer 627 00:34:31,079 --> 00:34:35,039 that I do not like, and that is indoor winter. 628 00:34:36,039 --> 00:34:36,239 Speaker 2: Ah. 629 00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:43,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, indoor winter. That season is finally ending. Why when 630 00:34:43,679 --> 00:34:46,960 you go to movie theaters stores, I don't care where 631 00:34:47,039 --> 00:34:50,039 you go. Go sit in a friend's car they blashed 632 00:34:50,159 --> 00:34:53,840 you with air. Can listen in my car in summertime. 633 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:59,320 I have a winter coat, a stocking, camp, snow pants, boots, 634 00:34:59,599 --> 00:35:03,599 everything I need to survive indoor winter. Enough with the 635 00:35:04,559 --> 00:35:08,639 over dialed up air conditioning already, I can't take any 636 00:35:08,639 --> 00:35:11,000 more of it. I get physically ill from it. 637 00:35:11,119 --> 00:35:13,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, it can get pretty chilly in some places, and 638 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:15,079 you know that's just not very energy efficient. 639 00:35:15,599 --> 00:35:22,159 Speaker 1: If I wanted to visit Vostok Experimental Research Station in Antarctica, 640 00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:25,079 I'll go there, but don't give it to me in 641 00:35:25,119 --> 00:35:29,239 your billing. Now. I understand there are people who have allergies, 642 00:35:29,679 --> 00:35:34,320 and of course you have things like nursing homes and hospitals. 643 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,000 You've got people who are working hard. Maybe it's a 644 00:35:37,039 --> 00:35:40,480 restaurant and they're busy cooking. I understand there. Yeah, But 645 00:35:40,559 --> 00:35:43,480 I'm talking about just for the general person having to 646 00:35:43,559 --> 00:35:48,440 survive indoor winter. That's my hot take today. All right, okay, 647 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:54,880 all right, where was I? So? I was going to 648 00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:59,119 share a little bit of history. Osage orange thorny young trees. 649 00:35:59,199 --> 00:36:02,800 They were pruned to promote thick, bushy growth, and I 650 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:06,519 thought this phrase was cool, Stacey. The term horse high, 651 00:36:07,039 --> 00:36:11,679 both strong, and hog tight was used to describe osage 652 00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:16,039 orange and it was readily used in places like Kansas 653 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:21,639 prior to when barbed wire was invented. And don't ask 654 00:36:21,679 --> 00:36:24,639 me when barbed wire was invented, but somebody invented it 655 00:36:25,199 --> 00:36:28,360 at some point. So that's a plant that has great 656 00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:31,039 history to it. Another one, as long as we're talking 657 00:36:31,039 --> 00:36:35,039 about fences and structures, is black locusts. 658 00:36:35,679 --> 00:36:37,079 Speaker 3: Yes, very similar. 659 00:36:37,119 --> 00:36:38,800 Speaker 2: So I need to go back to osage orange for 660 00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:40,599 a moment because this is such a cool plant. So 661 00:36:41,079 --> 00:36:44,079 this plant will be making the rounds I think in 662 00:36:44,119 --> 00:36:47,599 the coming weeks where it goes viral on social media 663 00:36:47,679 --> 00:36:52,239 with people claiming that the very interesting green brain like 664 00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:57,760 fruits or repel spiders. They do not, but you know, 665 00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:01,360 you'll still see people selling them or claiming it or whatever. 666 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:04,480 They don't, But that's still not a bad reason to 667 00:37:04,519 --> 00:37:06,320 have them around because they're very cool looking. 668 00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:08,159 Speaker 1: It's amazing what you see on the web. 669 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:11,559 Speaker 2: Yes, indeed, and the trees themselves are very cool looking. 670 00:37:11,599 --> 00:37:13,320 They have very unique bark, and the reason they were 671 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,239 used as fences is because they are thorny, so it 672 00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:18,960 would help to prevent livestock and that kind of thing 673 00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:21,800 from going in between the fencers. But the coolest thing, okay, 674 00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:23,800 this is not related to it being a backdrop. The 675 00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:28,400 coolest thing about osage orange is that its seeds, those big, 676 00:37:28,599 --> 00:37:33,880 giant brain like oranges which are green, were dispersed by 677 00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:39,559 wooly mammoths, and the osage orange stopped spreading across North 678 00:37:39,599 --> 00:37:43,320 America when the mammoths went extinct because there was no 679 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:45,519 longer anything that could spread the fruits. 680 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:48,119 Speaker 1: Wow, they're the only ones that would eat the fruit. 681 00:37:48,199 --> 00:37:49,800 Speaker 2: They were the only ones that would eat the fruits. 682 00:37:50,119 --> 00:37:53,400 There's a fascinating article online called the Trees that Miss 683 00:37:53,559 --> 00:37:56,280 the Mammoths. So if you are interested in more information, 684 00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:59,519 that would be a great choice. And black locusts, yeah, 685 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:00,599 their great choice. 686 00:38:00,639 --> 00:38:05,039 Speaker 1: Also very thorny, yes, oh thorny, oh, black locusts. I 687 00:38:05,079 --> 00:38:10,360 tell you, while you're while you were talking about oceae orange, 688 00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:12,400 I was thinking when I was a kid, that's what 689 00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:15,280 we would do all the time. We would get shovel handles, 690 00:38:16,119 --> 00:38:20,360 use them as baseball bats and hit these osage oranges 691 00:38:20,519 --> 00:38:24,360 for hours out in the field. Come home and you'd 692 00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:28,239 be picking the green on, yes, and your clothing that brought. 693 00:38:28,039 --> 00:38:29,199 Speaker 3: Back the Oh that's nice. 694 00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:32,239 Speaker 2: They have a very strong kind of resinous smell, not 695 00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:36,440 appetizing at all. And you know there you see them 696 00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:38,360 here and there in Michigan. They were never native to Michigan. 697 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:41,519 They didn't come native this far north, but you do 698 00:38:41,599 --> 00:38:44,039 sometimes I think maybe around old farms and that kind 699 00:38:44,119 --> 00:38:46,880 of thing. See a vestige of an ocege orange fence 700 00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:47,440 here and there. 701 00:38:47,639 --> 00:38:52,039 Speaker 1: Awesome. Yeah. Black locusts so fast growing nitrogen fixing tree. 702 00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:57,039 Native to eastern uh North America. It's known for its 703 00:38:57,119 --> 00:39:02,679 deep furrowed bark, And you're right, Stacey, very thorny twigs. 704 00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:04,960 As a matter of fact, it's not a tree that 705 00:39:05,079 --> 00:39:09,119 I would recommend for your landscape. Do not find them 706 00:39:09,159 --> 00:39:13,159 to be attractive. But it is a native tree. As 707 00:39:13,199 --> 00:39:15,320 a matter of fact, I had one in my landscape 708 00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:20,360 at one time. I bought it from American Forests because 709 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:25,280 it was an offspring of the black locust that Abraham 710 00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:28,480 Lincoln stood next to when he delivered the Gettysburg address. 711 00:39:28,519 --> 00:39:30,159 Speaker 3: Well, that's a good reason to grow on at. 712 00:39:30,079 --> 00:39:32,920 Speaker 1: Least certificate that said. 713 00:39:33,039 --> 00:39:36,800 Speaker 2: The flowers are great, really fragrant. And when way back 714 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,639 when I was in horticulture school, I know that the 715 00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:44,159 tree crew always had an agreement with the orchid team 716 00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:49,000 because the black locust is very dense wood, really good 717 00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:52,679 for burning, really good for it's really rot resistant. So 718 00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:55,280 the people who took care of the orchid collection at 719 00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:59,639 NYBG would request black locust twigs for mounting orchids on 720 00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:01,719 because as they would hold up better to the humidity 721 00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:02,480 in the landscape. 722 00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:04,599 Speaker 1: So it's interesting, and I'm glad you brought that up, 723 00:40:04,639 --> 00:40:07,000 because that's where I was going with this. There are 724 00:40:07,039 --> 00:40:12,880 many people who believe locust poles are more durable as 725 00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:16,719 fencing post fence material or if you're putting up a structure. 726 00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:19,480 I have a picture on YouTube of a playground going 727 00:40:19,559 --> 00:40:23,760 in with locust poles. You're right, Stacey. They are so 728 00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:28,639 dense and so durable that many people favor them to 729 00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:31,559 womanized or treated lumber. 730 00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:33,800 Speaker 2: Sure, if you can find them. I've never seen them, 731 00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:36,800 but I've never looked for them, but out there they 732 00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:38,840 are a very cool plant. And you know you mentioned 733 00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:41,360 the bark. It's one of those types of barks you 734 00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:45,400 can get to know an idea tree because it's so distinctive. 735 00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:49,639 Speaker 1: You bet. As far as backdrop plants are concerned, of course, 736 00:40:49,679 --> 00:40:53,559 we all have our favorites, but I've developed a new favorite, Stacy. Now. 737 00:40:53,559 --> 00:40:57,199 It used to be joe pie weed or tall helianthus 738 00:40:57,239 --> 00:40:59,719 that I would put in the background. Of course, I 739 00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:03,960 love of cannas and pillar rows of sharon and viburnum, 740 00:41:04,199 --> 00:41:09,000 all great backdrop plants. But I have really become a 741 00:41:09,039 --> 00:41:13,280 big fan of calicanthus ooh yest because it grows so fast, 742 00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,679 the foliage is so green and glossy, and let's say 743 00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:22,159 I have it next to a structure, that foliage just 744 00:41:22,679 --> 00:41:28,039 jumps out, not to speak of the amazing, interesting flowers 745 00:41:28,039 --> 00:41:31,000 that are on the plant, But I recommend that as 746 00:41:31,039 --> 00:41:32,639 a structural backdrop. 747 00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:35,000 Speaker 2: That's a great choice because it is also very dense. 748 00:41:35,679 --> 00:41:38,280 It has got a lot of foliage on it, so 749 00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:42,039 it really creates that kind of lush, dense backdrop that's 750 00:41:42,079 --> 00:41:45,400 so good for setting off other plants as well as 751 00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:48,239 its own flowers. I love watching the I love the 752 00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:51,199 way that the flowers and foliage complement each other on 753 00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:51,679 that plant. 754 00:41:52,599 --> 00:41:55,119 Speaker 1: So take a look at composition, take a look at 755 00:41:55,199 --> 00:41:57,760 fencing material. You may think, hey, I just want to 756 00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:01,159 grow plants, but you have issues. You have deer or 757 00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:04,320 rabbits to control. You don't want the fence to be 758 00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:09,079 gaudy or to distract from the plant material or the 759 00:42:09,199 --> 00:42:12,519 landscape that you have. And then in other situations, like 760 00:42:12,559 --> 00:42:17,239 I said in our first segment, using these galvanized steel 761 00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:21,360 panels or various types of wood, or these different types 762 00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:24,360 of mesh to create fencing where you either create a 763 00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,480 situation where you can see through it and it dissolves 764 00:42:27,519 --> 00:42:31,320 into the landscape, or it creates a backdrop to be 765 00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:35,760 able to plant some really colorful plants. I'm really getting 766 00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:38,920 into that and structure within the landscape. As a matter 767 00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:44,159 of fact, Adriana put together a wonderful video of your garden. 768 00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:47,440 Yeah and my garden, and we have that out on YouTube. 769 00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:51,440 And now that that video is out there, I've begun 770 00:42:51,519 --> 00:42:54,840 my work on my pergola. Ooh, there you go, Stacey. 771 00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:57,679 There's for the posts, one of the posts right there. 772 00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:02,840 And interestingly enough, again online you can buy the components, 773 00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:06,320 not the wood, but just the components to put together 774 00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:08,000 your own para live. 775 00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:11,159 Speaker 2: You know, I like this attitude that you have because, 776 00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:15,079 as someone who got fencing quotes, fencing is expensive. So 777 00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:18,039 if you want to save some money and do something 778 00:43:18,079 --> 00:43:20,800 that's more creative and unique to you, it definitely pays 779 00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:23,559 to think a little bit outside the box there. 780 00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:28,920 Speaker 1: That's exactly it. Don't be left defenseless. Well this was fun, 781 00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:32,480 it was yeah. Thank you Stacy, thank you Rick, thanks Adriana, 782 00:43:32,519 --> 00:43:35,400 and thanks to you for watching us on YouTube, listening 783 00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:38,719 to our podcast or our radio version of the show. 784 00:43:39,519 --> 00:43:40,920 Have yourself a great week.