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Speaker 6: Good Luck, you are now listening to True Murder The
Speaker 6: most Shocking Killers in True Crime History and the authors
Speaker 6: that have written about them Gacy Bundy, Dahmer, The Night Stalker, Dck.
Speaker 6: Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking
Speaker 6: and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with
Speaker 6: your host, journalist and author Dan Zupansky. Good Evening.
Speaker 3: This is your host Dan Zupanski for the program True Murder,
Speaker 3: The most Shocking Killers in True crime History and the
Speaker 3: authors that have written about them. Kim Cantrell has been
Speaker 3: reading true crime for twenty plus years, becoming hook after
Speaker 3: checking out a true crime story from her high school library.
Speaker 3: Her interest in the judicial system led to a career
Speaker 3: as a legal secretary, then on to private investigations until
Speaker 3: two thousand and two. Kim decided to expose herself as
Speaker 3: a fan of this very closeted genre when she began
Speaker 3: reviewing on Amazon in two thousand and six, quickly rising
Speaker 3: to a top reviewer rank. Seeing the growing intensity of
Speaker 3: the genre and the loyalty of its readers, coupled with
Speaker 3: the difficulty of fans finding books, she decided it was
Speaker 3: time to take it all to a new level with
Speaker 3: a site dedicated just to true crime books, What's new,
Speaker 3: Who's new, and the classics otherwise long forgotten true crime
Speaker 3: book reviews with special guests. Kim Cantrell, thank you very
Speaker 3: much for green to this interview, and welcome to the program.
Speaker 3: Kim Cantrell, Thank you, Dan, thank you well, Thank you
Speaker 3: very much. It's a big thrill. I've had reruns rebroadcast
Speaker 3: shows in the summer because I found it very hard
Speaker 3: to get a hold of people, and people have lives
Speaker 3: in the summer, I find even myself. So this is
Speaker 3: my first live program here in the fall lineup. So
Speaker 3: I think it's a really special program because I think
Speaker 3: a lot of people who read True Murder know who
Speaker 3: you are, rely on your true crime book reviews, and
Speaker 3: you're doing an incredible service. So I really want to
Speaker 3: I think this is going to be exciting program for
Speaker 3: a lot of people that are out there and are
Speaker 3: avid true crime book fans, and I think they'll know
Speaker 3: who you are and appreciate this interview. Now. First off,
Speaker 3: first off, I want to ask you if you can
Speaker 3: remember what was that first true crime book that really
Speaker 3: affected you way back over twenty years ago.
Speaker 7: The very first one that I read was small sacrifices
Speaker 7: by An Rule that would have been well, let's not
Speaker 7: side the year. It indite me a little bit there,
Speaker 7: but of course that was a long time ago. But
Speaker 7: you know the story of Diane downs who murdered her children, right,
Speaker 7: she actually had one child survive.
Speaker 4: It's been a lot.
Speaker 7: Of years, but to the best of my recollection and uh,
Speaker 7: just being in high school and reading that that really
Speaker 7: effaced you, makes you. It gives you a brutal look
Speaker 7: at people and saying, wow, a mother, you know, can
Speaker 7: do this to her children.
Speaker 3: Were you familiar with the story before you read the book?
Speaker 4: I wasn't. I wasn't, uh not at all. Had no idea.
Speaker 7: I had no idea who Diane Downes was, who Anne
Speaker 7: Rule was, had really even no concept of what true
Speaker 7: crime was. Just saw it on the shelf, read the
Speaker 7: back cover and said that sounds interesting, and then that's where.
Speaker 4: It all began.
Speaker 3: Geez, that's that's the heck of a book to get
Speaker 3: started with Anne Rule and small sacrifice. No wonder you
Speaker 3: got hooked on true crime.
Speaker 1: It didn't.
Speaker 4: It's like much.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, my first Ann Rule was a stranger beside me
Speaker 3: and just incredible. I was of course everyone thinks they
Speaker 3: know of these people. But when you read the full
Speaker 3: account from the masters, you know, from the really good writers,
Speaker 3: it's wow. You have no idea to.
Speaker 7: Start to look at people differently. Yeah, you never fully
Speaker 7: trust that anyone is who they say they are.
Speaker 4: Again.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And the thing is what you realize with these
Speaker 3: true crime books is that you really can't. I know,
Speaker 3: everybody says, well, they don't even look like one. You
Speaker 3: can't tell otherwise. It's not just looks, it's you like,
Speaker 3: like Anne Rule proved she was working with this person,
Speaker 3: and consider that the gentleman or friend and it ends
Speaker 3: up being Ted Bundy. So how wrong can you be?
Speaker 4: So? Right? Right?
Speaker 7: And I mean the neighbor next door? And that's what
Speaker 7: I found in a lot of these books, that the
Speaker 7: scenarios are just so common to what we all live
Speaker 7: every day. And we think we know our neighbors. We
Speaker 7: think we know our dance teachers, we you know, we
Speaker 7: think we know the people at church or at the
Speaker 7: Boy Scouts. We think we know them, and then suddenly, wow,
Speaker 7: you know, here they are. I mean a good example
Speaker 7: of that is Dennis Ryder, the bt K killer. He
Speaker 7: was in you know, he was a church elder, he
Speaker 7: was a boy Scout leader, highly respected member of the community,
Speaker 7: and then Luke where he is today. Yeah, and all
Speaker 7: along he was the one who was lurking, you know,
Speaker 7: and terrorizing people, and you just you true crime really
Speaker 7: shows you that you cannot really know who anyone is.
Speaker 3: Absolutely now with back to this, to your you know,
Speaker 3: your affection for true crime here over twenty years ago,
Speaker 3: I found it very interesting. You said you became a
Speaker 3: legal secretary after that. So did did reading true do
Speaker 3: this or you was it just a confluence of evansd
Speaker 3: sort of you You were interested in the law, and
Speaker 3: so tell us about you being a legal secretary, and
Speaker 3: then did your experiences there further your interest in reading
Speaker 3: about crime at all?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 7: Absolutely, I don't believe that I went into being a
Speaker 7: legal secretary because I was reading through crime. I think
Speaker 7: that just kind of happened. But I have no doubt
Speaker 7: that maybe just my personality, my interest maybe caused me
Speaker 7: to gravitate to a job like that. But definitely working
Speaker 7: I worked for an attorney here in my local hometown
Speaker 7: who he did a lot of defense work, and I
Speaker 7: just I really enjoyed that he did a lot of
Speaker 7: domestic family court that I didn't really care for, but
Speaker 7: I did enjoy the criminals, you know, And I think
Speaker 7: what I enjoyed about it was because learning how the
Speaker 7: judicial system worked, seeing how lenient we can be, seeing
Speaker 7: you know, the way let me think of how I
Speaker 7: want to probably worth this that there truly is seems
Speaker 7: to be at least here where I am that and
Speaker 7: I think this happens a lot in America, that you
Speaker 7: have whoever has the best attorney, which is usually the
Speaker 7: high dollar attorney.
Speaker 4: Comes out on the better end.
Speaker 7: Sure this is I don't think our lady Justice is blind,
Speaker 7: and I know a lot would disagree with me, But
Speaker 7: when I was working there, I really enjoyed it. And
Speaker 7: what I really got fascinated by was towards the end
Speaker 7: of the time before he retired and before I left,
Speaker 7: that he had a particular case that was in the
Speaker 7: next town over where a group of six boys had
Speaker 7: abducted to other boys and had killed them and threw
Speaker 7: them off of a bridge into the lakes here, and
Speaker 7: that one really kind.
Speaker 4: Of stepped it up.
Speaker 7: And I never did get to see the end of that,
Speaker 7: never to get to follow that one. I'm thorry rather
Speaker 7: than throw the newspapers and everything, but just the interlegal
Speaker 7: workings of that was very, very interesting, and I think
Speaker 7: that kind of stepped me even farther into true crime.
Speaker 3: Now, you mentioned also that you have worked in private investigations,
Speaker 3: and how did work in in this field further interest
Speaker 3: in true crime and what aspects of those books were
Speaker 3: you most interested in?
Speaker 4: When it's worth I'm sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 3: No, no, I'm sorry. If I if I questions confusing,
Speaker 3: I'll qualify it.
Speaker 7: But well, okay, with private investigations, really, in all honesty, Dan,
Speaker 7: private investigations leads more to humorous boots for.
Speaker 4: The overall work.
Speaker 7: You find more humorous situations there.
Speaker 4: But I did.
Speaker 7: I think it was just again that whole gravitational thing
Speaker 7: of my personality, what I'm suited with and what I liked,
Speaker 7: and there was some interesting things that came along, but
Speaker 7: I don't know that it really spurred me on any
Speaker 7: more towards true crime. It just kind of fed a
Speaker 7: little bit more of that whole variuristic personality that comes
Speaker 7: with a true crime reader.
Speaker 3: So there weren't so much serious private investigations that you
Speaker 3: were involved in necessarily.
Speaker 7: There were some, but as far as anything that's really noteworthy. No. Now,
Speaker 7: like I said, anything that was noteworthy would actually be
Speaker 7: better qualified for a humorous book.
Speaker 3: Now, you began reviewing books for Amazon, and was it
Speaker 3: that were you doing specifically true crime books for Amazon?
Speaker 3: And what made you want to do book reviews in
Speaker 3: the first place.
Speaker 4: Well, the very first.
Speaker 7: Thing that made me want to do true crime reviews
Speaker 7: was I had read a book. It was titled A
Speaker 7: Stranger in the Family, and it was a book that
Speaker 7: was essentially four hundred pages of a mother's whine about
Speaker 7: how her son, who was a serial rapist and had
Speaker 7: murdered one of his victims, was being treated so badly
Speaker 7: behind bars that he was all the injustices that he
Speaker 7: was suffering, and it just really enraged me. And it
Speaker 7: was like, wait a second, this guy has raped numerous women,
Speaker 7: he has murdered one of his victims, and you're whining
Speaker 7: about how he is being treated. And I had to
Speaker 7: speak out about it. I had to say something about it.
Speaker 4: And I just happened to land.
Speaker 7: At Amazon and did the review, and really just it
Speaker 7: was a very amateur review, but I was angry and
Speaker 7: my fingers were flying over the keys, and I was
Speaker 7: just spewing out the anger, and from.
Speaker 4: There it just kind of grew.
Speaker 7: You know, I would go back and review another one,
Speaker 7: and you would have so many readers who come in
Speaker 7: and say.
Speaker 4: Oh, you know, I felt this way, this is what
Speaker 4: you know.
Speaker 7: I agree with you, and you have some that disagree.
Speaker 4: Right now, this isn't my type. But it just kind
Speaker 4: of grew from there.
Speaker 7: But I was just so outright that I had to
Speaker 7: say something.
Speaker 3: So Amazon appreciated some of your because I've read a
Speaker 3: lot of your reviews before my contacted you. I read
Speaker 3: a lot of reviews and I was going, oh Jesus,
Speaker 3: was a little worried there, I mean, because some of
Speaker 3: your you're very passionate. You're very detailed, very comprehensive. Like
Speaker 3: I said, but not everybody gets a good review, and
Speaker 3: in fact, you're very passionate and very specific on why
Speaker 3: certain books are not, in your estimation, a good read
Speaker 3: and a worthwhile reading for your for the fans of
Speaker 3: the site that are reading through crime. Have you had
Speaker 3: any time where you've had angry authors, you know, out
Speaker 3: of the ordinary, we'll say, I mean, obviously some people
Speaker 3: don't agree with your reviews, but if you had any
Speaker 3: incident over the years, in the last few years where
Speaker 3: somebody was especially upset and didn't agree with your review.
Speaker 7: As far as authors, you would be surprised how many
Speaker 7: of them actually take the time to thank me for
Speaker 7: my critical reviews and say, okay, you pointed this out
Speaker 7: to me. I never considered that. Typically when I get
Speaker 7: the angry responses, it is from people who are relatives
Speaker 7: of the victim or the convicted. That's typically our their friends,
Speaker 7: their family, and they're outraged because, well, what they say
Speaker 7: is the author and by me doing the review, we're
Speaker 7: making money off of somebody else's hardship.
Speaker 3: Oh really, you get that yourself as well.
Speaker 7: Well, yes, yes I do, and I really really hate
Speaker 7: that when they say that. And my typical response to
Speaker 7: them is, first of all, it is a story that's
Speaker 7: out there.
Speaker 4: But if you do not want somebody.
Speaker 7: Making money off of the atrocities of Lost the End,
Speaker 7: you have to shut down your radio, your television, your
Speaker 7: even your fictional television shows like CSI, NCIS. You have
Speaker 7: to shut those down because those are usually spin offs
Speaker 7: of something that happened in real life. You have to
Speaker 7: shut down fictional books, which typically have some kind of
Speaker 7: visis to something that's really happened. You know, if you
Speaker 7: really want to go the route of somebody not making
Speaker 7: money off of it, then you have to shut down
Speaker 7: everything completely, and that's just not fasible.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I know that what you had said well as well,
Speaker 3: and I agreed with you in one of our emails.
Speaker 3: He said, you find it very unusual or very interesting
Speaker 3: when somebody criticizes someone for writing true crime or reading
Speaker 3: true crime, or like in your case, reviewing it and
Speaker 3: in their mind promoting true crime book. Whereas somebody writing
Speaker 3: a fictional book, no matter how depraved, whether it's Hannibal
Speaker 3: Lecter that that Silence of the Lambs or whatever, that
Speaker 3: there's a that people don't criticize that. So it seems
Speaker 3: unusual for people. It makes no sense to me at all.
Speaker 4: It doesn't to me either.
Speaker 7: They will flop to the movies, they will watch the
Speaker 7: you know, the ten o'clock news, they'll watch CSI and
Speaker 7: HAS it has very high ratings, and they're gung ho
Speaker 7: about that. But for some reason, when it happens in
Speaker 7: real life and somebody decides to tell that story in
Speaker 7: a book form, it brings out the worst. It brings
Speaker 7: out the worst. But I just don't let them bother me,
Speaker 7: you know, because I just I take it that they
Speaker 7: are maybe just lashing out, that they're hurt and anger
Speaker 7: and this is just one more way that's maybe a
Speaker 7: healing process for them. But I let them know, you know,
Speaker 7: this just it doesn't work this way. There's going to
Speaker 7: be people who tell the stories, whether it's your news media,
Speaker 7: your radio media, what iver.
Speaker 4: Somebody's going to tell.
Speaker 7: The story, and this is just one more person telling
Speaker 7: the story. And most authors I've found will type the
Speaker 7: time to at least attempt to interview friends and family
Speaker 7: to get their input on the book. They're actually very
Speaker 7: kind to them and want to type the time to
Speaker 7: interview them and talk to them and give them the
Speaker 7: opportunity to site there you know, their thoughts therapy.
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Speaker 3: Necessary daily void wherever I lost in terms conditions eighteen
Speaker 3: plus year, but it is under it is understandable as well.
Speaker 3: Though I know that I was at the trial of
Speaker 3: the case that I was involved with. I was approached
Speaker 3: by a murder victim's father. And this person now has
Speaker 3: become a real activist and the government uses him basically
Speaker 3: because he's a good you know, he's photogenic and the cameras,
Speaker 3: you know, the media likes him and he so they
Speaker 3: can use him politically sometimes. But he approached me at
Speaker 3: the trial and said the same thing that he was
Speaker 3: critical of me paying. I offered to pay for the
Speaker 3: information as it was the Son of Sam law where
Speaker 3: you cannot profit off a crime a notoriety of a crime.
Speaker 3: The law did pass, and of course, but still I
Speaker 3: was still criticized. But my point was is that the
Speaker 3: people that I can understand and the people that I
Speaker 3: would not argue with are the victims, the victims parents
Speaker 3: or victims family like that, because they've just gone through
Speaker 3: this incredible thing and they want to lash out at
Speaker 3: so many different people, and unfortunately they wouldn't last showed
Speaker 3: at the judicial system. Potentially, it's better to pick a
Speaker 3: target like an author, after everyone else is exhausted. It's
Speaker 3: just someone there. So I can understand these people that.
Speaker 7: Authors are easier targets because you know, Okay, your picture
Speaker 7: may be on the cover of the book, but you're
Speaker 7: not sitting there behind the anchor desk every night, so
Speaker 7: it's a little different. And I do think that they
Speaker 7: a lot of times take the brunt of it when
Speaker 7: there's nobody else and somebody like me who's definitely behind
Speaker 7: the scenes take and I try to understand and let
Speaker 7: them and just remind them. But while we're on the subject,
Speaker 7: can I ask you a question on your you mentioned
Speaker 7: you just you mentioned it about Canada just now passing
Speaker 7: a son of Sam law.
Speaker 3: That's not way it works. That What it is is
Speaker 3: that it's like similar we have ten provinces and you
Speaker 3: have your fifty states. So right, it's stayed by state
Speaker 3: legislation and we go province by province, and for some reason,
Speaker 3: this province took till two thousand and five to draft
Speaker 3: up legislation. And what I'll tell you, which is really
Speaker 3: very very ironic, and I could have put it in
Speaker 3: the book, but I would have had a six hundred
Speaker 3: page book, is that what happened was that I was
Speaker 3: criticized for offering him profits of the book, and I
Speaker 3: knew that the law would pass, and I knew that
Speaker 3: I would not break the law to give him any money.
Speaker 3: And thirdly, I knew in my mind if anybody was
Speaker 3: going to criticize me, that's a small amount even if
Speaker 3: I did pay him, which I wouldn't to find out
Speaker 3: the truth. Now, what happened was is that I was
Speaker 3: criticized for that, and it did a lot of damage
Speaker 3: for my reputation as a journalist, and I can't do
Speaker 3: anything about that. But what was ironic is that EYE
Speaker 3: contacted the authorities when I found on on a website
Speaker 3: that Sidney Tierhuse was trying to profit off the notoriety
Speaker 3: of his crime directly by having three of his aboriginal paintings.
Speaker 3: But alongside on the website was the account of the
Speaker 3: murders and dismemberment, the accounts of the horrid crimes alongside
Speaker 3: the paintings. So exactly what the law was designated for
Speaker 3: designed for, is for this clown now who has already
Speaker 3: snubbed his nose at society and the courts and the
Speaker 3: victim and everybody on earth. He is now doing it
Speaker 3: again aboriginal art while he's in jail. Taxpayer pays for it,
Speaker 3: and then somebody's on a website trying to sell it
Speaker 3: for fifty thousand dollars, directly trying to capitalize on the
Speaker 3: notoriety of this guy's crimes. They could not prosecute for that.
Speaker 3: So you know, twenty something years after, somebody else has
Speaker 3: a state legislation that can prevent exactly this sort of
Speaker 3: thing from happening, this province couldn't do it. And in fact,
Speaker 3: the news broadcasters that didn't want to attend the trial
Speaker 3: because it was too gory and too graphic, actually put
Speaker 3: big color photos of his paintings on their website.
Speaker 7: So, and what amazes me, Dan, is that you will
Speaker 7: have plenty of people purchase those, but a lot of
Speaker 7: those same people that purchased those would be the ones
Speaker 7: who would frown on the true crime readers.
Speaker 3: Well, there was ironic will I will say I've.
Speaker 4: Seen that, and I've.
Speaker 7: They show you and go, you write your crime, you
Speaker 7: read your crime. Wow, But hey, I've got this painting here.
Speaker 4: But you know what, this is a collectible.
Speaker 3: Yes, no, sure, no he What happened was there was
Speaker 3: a there was an art organization that came out to
Speaker 3: defend him and his right because they said he didn't
Speaker 3: he was not depicting any murderous event in the paintings,
Speaker 3: so they were the sting his right to paint, is
Speaker 3: right to sell his art, and the other people were
Speaker 3: talking about that. You know what, we should encourage him
Speaker 3: to practice his art and get better, because then maybe
Speaker 3: he can, you know, make some money and then maybe
Speaker 3: pay the victims back a little bit of money, and
Speaker 3: or he at least he would have a really steady
Speaker 3: good job when he got out of jail. So this
Speaker 3: is where we are in Canada. If you think it's leading,
Speaker 3: like you said, if you think it's lenient there, we
Speaker 3: have been duped. We have been duped.
Speaker 7: When I read in your book twenty five years then
Speaker 7: that terrifies me.
Speaker 4: That terrifies me.
Speaker 7: And like you said, I do I think we're lenient
Speaker 7: here and it hasn't changed my mind that we're lnient,
Speaker 7: But I will say we're not as lenient.
Speaker 4: As Canada to do what he did and then to
Speaker 4: be too eligible.
Speaker 7: To walk away in twenty five years, okay, And then.
Speaker 4: Where do I believe that you're going to.
Speaker 7: Rehabilitate him someone like Sidney Pierius. You cannot weighabilitate.
Speaker 3: Well, that's see. The thing is what happened, though, is
Speaker 3: that if I didn't come into the picture, everything would
Speaker 3: have been downplayed, and everything would have been attributed to alcohol,
Speaker 3: and they would have trotted out his again unsubstantiated history
Speaker 3: of abuse from his adopted family, no substantiated evidence of
Speaker 3: anything but just the killer's word for it we've got
Speaker 3: to take. And so what would have happened is that
Speaker 3: a lot of the information, like the vast majority of
Speaker 3: the information, never would have come out. It just it
Speaker 3: would have been downplayed that the body was reassembled in
Speaker 3: the bathtub. Well it was, it was the body was
Speaker 3: neatly stacked, is the way they wrote it in the media.
Speaker 3: And if they didn't have those sensationalistic letters and those
Speaker 3: snippets from those letters, they would have had nothing. They
Speaker 3: wouldn't they wouldn't have had anything, and.
Speaker 4: Then he probably would have walked in the ten years.
Speaker 3: He would have either received he would have received either
Speaker 3: a manslaughter sentence, which because we were at that time
Speaker 3: up till just recently, we would have double time credit
Speaker 3: for pre trial custody. He would have walked out with
Speaker 3: time served. He would have been out in five years
Speaker 3: with a manslaughter conviction and his sentence finished with, or
Speaker 3: he would have been convicted of second ark murder. But
Speaker 3: because we would have listened to a sob story, he
Speaker 3: would have likely gotten ten or twelve years till parole eligibility.
Speaker 3: And in this country, they're already letting you out on
Speaker 3: passes to walk around and go to the mall after
Speaker 3: about seven years in anticipation of your first parole eligibility.
Speaker 3: And this is killers I got involved in this a
Speaker 3: long time ago because I was just outraged what was
Speaker 3: going on. I mean, I don't care what happens with
Speaker 3: non serious crime. I don't really care. I don't care
Speaker 3: what Canada does with people who just break windows or vandalism,
Speaker 3: but I care what they do with the most serious criminals.
Speaker 7: And it's who murder, right bliss children?
Speaker 6: Sure?
Speaker 4: Those? Yeah, yeah, And that's what yeah, I'm sorry.
Speaker 7: I mean I have to agree with you, sire that
Speaker 7: your vandalizers, even your people who are you know, smoking pot,
Speaker 7: don't care.
Speaker 3: Let's take care of the Yeah, there's not enough money.
Speaker 3: As you realize, there's not enough money. And like in America,
Speaker 3: I watch I watch American law and I'm a big
Speaker 3: fan of it, and I see what you're talking about.
Speaker 3: The difference in Canada and in the United States is
Speaker 3: that when a murderer is charged in this country, he's
Speaker 3: able to apply for what's called legal aid. And with
Speaker 3: legal aid, the most experienced lawyer in the English speaking world,
Speaker 3: which is Greg Rotsky, will take your case in this province,
Speaker 3: maybe another bordering province. He'll travel around, people will reques
Speaker 3: left him and if he will take the legal aid,
Speaker 3: which is a reduced rate from the three hundred or
Speaker 3: four hundred dollars these guys can charge per hour, he
Speaker 3: then will defend you and will use all the government resources.
Speaker 3: You talk about not having the money or the resources,
Speaker 3: or the experience or the that's what these guys have.
Speaker 3: These guys, they have a full staff. Canada does not
Speaker 3: want to even though they have, they do not want
Speaker 3: to prosecute and sentence people wrongly convict people. So if
Speaker 3: you think it's a little too easy to convict some
Speaker 3: people in the US with the ineffective lawyers, the somewhat
Speaker 3: inexperienced lawyers, less resources, you know, just completely different. It's
Speaker 3: a completely different system. But you do have that, you
Speaker 3: do have that system where we do have we're going
Speaker 3: the other way in terms of protecting people to the
Speaker 3: utmost and spending those resources on a few people. The
Speaker 3: picked in trial alone, for example, was seventy million dollars.
Speaker 3: So what will happen now is that the police screwed
Speaker 3: up and when they had the opportunity to stop this
Speaker 3: guy's reign of terror, they screwed up and didn't arrest him.
Speaker 3: He could have been charged for attempted murder. They could
Speaker 3: have had the warrant to go out this property would
Speaker 3: save thirteen william women's lives. Now, what will happen after
Speaker 3: the seventy million is they'll have an inquiry which will
Speaker 3: cost about fifteen or twenty million and nothing will change.
Speaker 3: But that's the kind of money we have for investigations here,
Speaker 3: and that's absolutely of start. Yes, it really gives.
Speaker 7: And all I can say is if I ever feel
Speaker 7: the need to commit a serious crime. I'm going to
Speaker 7: go over the border.
Speaker 3: Because I stand a better chance over the Absolutely, absolutely, your.
Speaker 7: Attorney, I have a much better chance of getting out.
Speaker 5: Wow.
Speaker 4: That just amizes me.
Speaker 7: And that's what I really enjoyed about reading your book
Speaker 7: is because I did get to learn so much about
Speaker 7: Canada and the system. And it's like, you know, you
Speaker 7: all are just right above us. I mean, it's just
Speaker 7: you're right there, You're our neighbors to the north.
Speaker 3: What it is though, is it a good exult though,
Speaker 3: for you all to set.
Speaker 7: Your people for you in And I know this is
Speaker 7: a two white story because we set I'm free to
Speaker 7: over here. But thinking about somebody like Sidney Tierhuse being
Speaker 7: set for a and that he could come here, that
Speaker 7: is scary.
Speaker 4: I don't care how you put it. It's just absolutely terrifying.
Speaker 3: Well see, that's my whole mission with this book, and
Speaker 3: I felt it was a faithful turn of events that
Speaker 3: I fell into that opportunity. Was that the almost automatic
Speaker 3: reduction of murder to manslaughter. Then manslaughter being so low
Speaker 3: a sentence is just the definition of injustice. Because in America,
Speaker 3: you have a first degree murder, a second degree murder.
Speaker 3: You have three degrees of manslaughter. So there's different degrees
Speaker 3: and different sentences are available, but you do not u
Speaker 3: for number one, you do have life sentences available, life
Speaker 3: without any chance of parole. You have consecutive sentences. We
Speaker 3: don't have those even for murder. You the murder one,
Speaker 3: your first degree murder can happen from a guy waiting outside.
Speaker 3: That that's the driver for some people that we're going
Speaker 3: to rob somebody, and in the robbery, someone dies. We
Speaker 3: don't have laws like that. You start taking all those changes,
Speaker 3: and you start seeing that what is considered a cold blooded,
Speaker 3: psychopathic killer is out here in a few years. And
Speaker 3: that's what's scary to me. Yeah, and so, and that's
Speaker 3: a liberal that's a liberal way of thinking, because and
Speaker 3: I am a liberal, which is which is scary to me.
Speaker 3: But these people are so out of time that they
Speaker 3: don't realize that they're the liberal attitude that they're giving
Speaker 3: to people, first time offenders, non serious offenders, you know,
Speaker 3: victimless crime. Will say, but they're still applying that kind
Speaker 3: of liberal attitude. And we can fix everybody and help everybody,
Speaker 3: and we can. All we have to do is go
Speaker 3: back into their childhood. I mean, really, there are some
Speaker 3: people you just can't fix. And it's just the word
Speaker 3: rehabilitation does not apply in America. I've been told that
Speaker 3: America experimented with liberal sentences and lenient sentences and rehabilitation.
Speaker 3: It just doesn't work. There are certain segment of a population,
Speaker 3: a very very small population, that needs to be incarcerated forever.
Speaker 3: It's just I'm sorry, that's just the way it is.
Speaker 4: That's exactly how it is.
Speaker 7: And in writing these books, it just feels for me
Speaker 7: every time you write about the Ted Bundys, they Kenneth mcduffs,
Speaker 7: the Sydney tears Uses, just to name a few, you realize, Wow,
Speaker 7: there are some serious nut jobs out here, and no
Speaker 7: matter what you do, they're going to offend again, over
Speaker 7: and over and over. They're not going to stop. And
Speaker 7: I mean it's an unpopular opinion, but I am a
Speaker 7: supporter of the death penalty here because there are.
Speaker 4: Just some that you cannot.
Speaker 7: You can't fix them, you can't undone. It can undo
Speaker 7: what mommy and daddy did, what the neighbor next door did,
Speaker 7: And I'm very very sorry that their life started out
Speaker 7: the way that it did, or those things happened. I'm
Speaker 7: very very sorry, and I wish that they'd had the
Speaker 7: opportunity had a better life, at a different life, but
Speaker 7: unfortunately they didn't.
Speaker 1: That was the.
Speaker 7: Cards that fate dealt, and so you can't change it.
Speaker 7: But there's the rest of society here, there's me, my family,
Speaker 7: my children. I can't take the risk of being out
Speaker 7: there and sometimes, unfortunately that means the death penalty.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, the only problem is with the death
Speaker 3: penalty is that there's so much opposition to it that
Speaker 3: it takes a.
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Speaker 3: No perchess necessary. I believe we're privited by loss. He
Speaker 3: terms and conditions eighteen plus so long to execute anyone.
Speaker 3: They rush execution in certain states within effective counsel. And
Speaker 3: so what they are doing is it's just like they
Speaker 3: have here. They've convicted people, wrongly convicted people, and people
Speaker 3: have spend twenty five years in jail. There has to
Speaker 3: be some kind of overhaul of that system. But I
Speaker 3: really don't think the death penalty is going to happen
Speaker 3: more so in the US. It will never happen in
Speaker 3: Canada again. So really, what I think the best thing
Speaker 3: to do is ensure in every state, because you don't
Speaker 3: really have that. You have you have people getting life
Speaker 3: sentences in certain states, and then it's overcrowded, they let
Speaker 3: them out, you know, and like you say, you have
Speaker 3: you have a slick lawyer, and you have in a
Speaker 3: smaller place than a person has the means to afford
Speaker 3: a really good lawyer. And you're going up against, you know,
Speaker 3: a county that doesn't have much money, and you're fighting
Speaker 3: a super experienced lawyer with resources from that from their client.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: So you know, there's some things that they could take you.
Speaker 7: I think that there's just really no happy medium. I mean,
Speaker 7: I'm glad for a system here that allows the opportunity.
Speaker 4: To at least.
Speaker 7: You know, it goes through the process that there is
Speaker 7: plenty of time there, I mean, and somewhere like Texas,
Speaker 7: I mean, you've got an average of nine years. Where
Speaker 7: somewhere like Tennessee, our people sit here for thirty years
Speaker 7: on death row, you know, and it's all the process
Speaker 7: of appeals, but the longer. But I think that with
Speaker 7: the NA science being out there.
Speaker 4: That's gonna help us.
Speaker 7: And I've just got to say, I gotta be honest.
Speaker 7: And like I said, I know this is a very
Speaker 7: unpopular opinion, but when somebody is caught.
Speaker 4: Red handed right there, you did it. We saw you.
Speaker 4: You know, thirty witnesses saw you. You were busted. Why
Speaker 4: waste our time? There were dishes, brutal people see you.
Speaker 4: You know. The thing is that's unpopular. You know.
Speaker 3: The thing is that you see I see a lot
Speaker 3: of American broadcasting. There's a lot of people the victims
Speaker 3: that say, you know, or there are some anyway that say,
Speaker 3: I forgive this person. I don't want the death funely.
Speaker 3: But I think in American courts they aren't listening more
Speaker 3: to the jury. You're listening more to the public. And
Speaker 3: you're listening you're listening to public sentiment. And that's what's
Speaker 3: I can see it in the in the in the
Speaker 3: juries that are that are selected. In the US, they
Speaker 3: take a lot of crimes to the jury with less evidence,
Speaker 3: and that they wouldn't even lay the charges here. And
Speaker 3: those people view the evidence and uh follow their conscience
Speaker 3: and make make their decisions. But I think the American people,
Speaker 3: if you see, like what's what's astounding to us is
Speaker 3: in America, In Canada VERSUS America, we have about one
Speaker 3: tenth your your murder rate, Like even a place like
Speaker 3: Winnipeg is murder capital of Canada. We have about one
Speaker 3: tenth of say Detroit or Chicago or something like that.
Speaker 3: So the thing is is that we have not yet.
Speaker 3: And that's why, that's why Canadians do not want to
Speaker 3: know about the Picton story. They really don't want to
Speaker 3: know about the Tierty story. They didn't want to know
Speaker 3: about the Olson Clifford Olson that killed ten kids. They
Speaker 3: don't Bernardo and Homolkase. They didn't read that book. Americans
Speaker 3: wrote read that book because these people Canadians do not
Speaker 3: want to believe for a second that we are like Americans.
Speaker 3: We think we're so much different, but yet our crimes.
Speaker 4: But there's a lot of similarities.
Speaker 7: And sure, I think I think Americans or maybe just
Speaker 7: you know, because Americans have been the later as far
Speaker 7: as you know, the raider numbers the number of authors
Speaker 7: in Corey crime. I mean here in America we're still,
Speaker 7: as I said, you know, a closeted genre where people go, oh,
Speaker 7: you read that. But I have met so many people
Speaker 7: in Canada and Australia, Germany that are like, you know,
Speaker 7: it's just not really accepted here. I really, you know,
Speaker 7: people look down on me, they criticized me.
Speaker 4: But here's the thing.
Speaker 7: Everywhere, no matter where, the stories are there, because.
Speaker 4: You'll find it on the blogs, you'll find it in just.
Speaker 7: The stories that people tell, you know, in a few
Speaker 7: books here and there. The killers are everywhere. It's just
Speaker 7: I don't think anybody's ficing it so much. And maybe
Speaker 7: it just isn't outfire because what's not in the books
Speaker 7: and the people aren't reading it as much. And when
Speaker 7: somebody likes you, like you write the book, you're.
Speaker 4: Causing them to fight it. Well the rest of the
Speaker 4: time we can go, ah, you know, it's not fire.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, the thing is America really is the
Speaker 3: true crime market of the world. I mean it is
Speaker 3: the biggest true crime market there is. England has a
Speaker 3: pretty sensational sensationalistic media as well, sort of tabloid esque,
Speaker 3: and they do report on stuff, and they do have
Speaker 3: harsh sentences for pedophilia, and they and that is you know,
Speaker 3: stock in trade of their papers. And I'm sure, and
Speaker 3: I know not matter of factly, but I pretty well
Speaker 3: know that England has a pretty thriving true crime market.
Speaker 3: We've got a lot of killers there, a lot of
Speaker 3: famous killers.
Speaker 4: They are next to.
Speaker 7: Us, and they are really enjoying their true crime books.
Speaker 7: And I think that over the last several years they
Speaker 7: have really just broke into it, you know, full force,
Speaker 7: full steam ahead. You know, they're really getting into it.
Speaker 7: And I tell you what, I really I think that Australia.
Speaker 4: Is right behind them.
Speaker 7: Sure, I think that's I think that's the third one.
Speaker 7: I think that even though we've got Canada to the
Speaker 7: north and Mexico to the south, I don't think even
Speaker 7: y'all are coming up as quickly as these folks are.
Speaker 7: It seems to be, you know, the UK, and then
Speaker 7: we've got Australia that's right behind them, and.
Speaker 4: They're just they're running, they're they're catching up and they're
Speaker 4: eager to get a hold of the books.
Speaker 7: They want to know, where can we find this?
Speaker 4: Where can we find that?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 7: And they're excited and they're starting to face it, and
Speaker 7: that may make a difference in how people, I don't know,
Speaker 7: you know, maybe Americans. You know, we are a country
Speaker 7: of people who were a little rebellious to begin with,
Speaker 7: you know, coming over here from England, you know, refusing
Speaker 7: the the you know, King George and everything, saying all right,
Speaker 7: we're out of here.
Speaker 4: So you know, we might just be a rebellious people
Speaker 4: to begin.
Speaker 7: With, and so that could you know, explain it while
Speaker 7: we are where we are today. But really, I mean,
Speaker 7: I'm telling you the rest of the world is really
Speaker 7: catching up and really starting to pay attention to what's
Speaker 7: going on, and we might say even more you know,
Speaker 7: Ted Bundy's and all of them everywhere, and they may
Speaker 7: be more in the books you know where we've before
Speaker 7: kind of being kept away. And really it's just like
Speaker 7: that US Americans are over here running wild.
Speaker 3: No. You can see true both true crime books like
Speaker 3: Lethal Intent, which was geez It was a different title
Speaker 3: something Damsel Damsel of Death or Geez I can't remember,
Speaker 3: but Alien Warner you alread it as Leithe only ten.
Speaker 7: I didn't realize it had another title, but.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I interviewed I interviewed Sue Russell, and it
Speaker 3: was this Damsel of Death something along those lines. A
Speaker 3: pretty appropriate title over there as well. But it was
Speaker 3: released in both places. So I think what you're going
Speaker 3: to do is when you get charismatic killers. And you've
Speaker 3: probably reviewed some of Philip Carlo's books, but the Nightstalker again,
Speaker 3: some of the classics. I mean, those those stories resonate everywhere,
Speaker 3: I don't care where you are, and and America has
Speaker 3: produced these world Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 7: Now as we continue to grow, you know, become more
Speaker 7: global with the Internet and everything, I really think, you know,
Speaker 7: that's wild just getting it on out there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you've got You've got stuff like True Crime Library
Speaker 3: too that does a really good job of doing synopsis
Speaker 3: and really covering all of the you know, if you
Speaker 3: whatever true crime you ever thought of, were the craziest
Speaker 3: crimes and the most bizarre and outrageous and biggest serial killers,
Speaker 3: most famous, they have it all. So it really is
Speaker 3: getting to be pretty easy to access these stories and
Speaker 3: you're you're reading new and crazier ones all the time.
Speaker 3: So it's very interesting. So now getting back to your
Speaker 3: true crime book reviews, because that's what.
Speaker 4: We're here for.
Speaker 3: We got a little of course, there were yeah little
Speaker 3: What year did you start up true crime book reviews
Speaker 3: and what was your goal?
Speaker 4: Well?
Speaker 7: I did not actually start turn crime book Reviews dot
Speaker 7: Com until two thousand and nine, and it was just
Speaker 7: a thing then. Of I was doing it at Amazon,
Speaker 7: getting a lot of email, a lot of questions, and
Speaker 7: I thought, let's put this in a place where it's
Speaker 7: more out there, where people can talk about it more,
Speaker 7: you know, the more commenting, more I could put more
Speaker 7: the updates, That's what I was striving for because people
Speaker 7: absolutely love updates. So they want to know what are
Speaker 7: the families doing, What are you know, if.
Speaker 4: It's a surviving victim, what do they do? Where's the
Speaker 4: killer right now? Are they are they still behind bars?
Speaker 4: Are they out? You know where they're at? They love
Speaker 4: the updates.
Speaker 7: So I really wanted a place that I could put
Speaker 7: all that and of course with Amazon, you know, you
Speaker 7: just you can't get it all there, sure, So I
Speaker 7: wanted to give a place, one central location that it's
Speaker 7: just nothing but true crime books, And here's the opportunity
Speaker 7: for you to find what you're looking for. And I'll
Speaker 7: be perfectly on a stand to it. It's an easy way.
Speaker 4: For me to keep up with what I've read to.
Speaker 7: You go to read as many as I have every time,
Speaker 7: and then you go that sounds familiar.
Speaker 4: Have I read that one? I can just do an
Speaker 4: easy search database. You know, Wow, there it is. Okay, Yeah,
Speaker 4: I read that one.
Speaker 3: That's great. How many books have you have you read
Speaker 3: in since?
Speaker 4: Well?
Speaker 3: How many books have you added to your true crime
Speaker 3: book reviews? How many actual reviews are there's.
Speaker 7: Over the last time I've done there was over three
Speaker 7: hundred of them. Wow, over three hundred reviews. Yeah, wow,
Speaker 7: because a lot of them that are reviewed at my side,
Speaker 7: I didn't review at Amazon.
Speaker 4: Every now and then I.
Speaker 7: Try to go over there and there a review still
Speaker 7: and you know, still be active over there, because there's
Speaker 7: some really really great true crime readers over there that
Speaker 7: I associate with and everything, and a good group of people,
Speaker 7: I mean.
Speaker 4: A very loyal group. That's how where crime fans are.
Speaker 4: We're loyal to the genre. But I enjoy talking them
Speaker 4: strugg over there.
Speaker 7: But there's more that I do at my side than
Speaker 7: I do at Amazon. So while over there I have
Speaker 7: two hundred something reviews, you know, I'm well past three hundred,
Speaker 7: probably going on closer to the four by.
Speaker 3: Now that's very prolific. I wasn't gonna say. We might
Speaker 3: as well get around to because I'm dying to hear
Speaker 3: what your some of your favorite true crime authors? And
Speaker 3: just let you say, because I know I have my ideas.
Speaker 3: But who are among your favorite authors and what are
Speaker 3: some of your favorite books by those authors of all time?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 3: Wow, your favorite?
Speaker 7: So many favorites, but I have to say that my
Speaker 7: very most favorite has to be Jack Elson.
Speaker 4: Yeah, me too, absolutely love it.
Speaker 7: And I don't think that there is any one of
Speaker 7: his that I can really pick, But if I had to,
Speaker 7: I would probably.
Speaker 4: Go with The Son. The Son.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would go with the Creation of a serial
Speaker 3: Killer his last book. But I've read so many of
Speaker 3: his they're all great.
Speaker 7: Fact that one was a good to you that would
Speaker 7: you can really relate to that one because that was
Speaker 7: the killer telling the stories. Yeah, he's an absolutely fabulous author.
Speaker 4: He was, you know, was god rest to sell.
Speaker 7: But yeah, he has to a I mean, you'll hear
Speaker 7: a lot of people say, you know Truman Capoti, you
Speaker 7: know with in Cold Blood, and he was a wonderful author.
Speaker 7: I think he did a marvelous job. But wow, jack
Speaker 7: Elson just.
Speaker 4: Really dug in there.
Speaker 3: Yeah. The thing is jack Olson has criticized the Truman
Speaker 3: Capoti because of and you see it in the movie
Speaker 3: as well. He didn't take any notes and five years
Speaker 3: later he was quoting people who said, listen, I never
Speaker 3: said that. And he made composite characters very much like
Speaker 3: movie scriptwriter would do. Screenwriters would do so taking two
Speaker 3: characters and turning them into one. And so his book
Speaker 3: is well done. It's a great story, but there's a
Speaker 3: lot of fiction in it, and that's what Jack Wilson's
Speaker 3: you know, was harping about. And a lot of people
Speaker 3: have too. So don't hold it up as a true
Speaker 3: crime classic because there's other.
Speaker 7: Sometimes writing and where you recreate, so to speak, the
Speaker 7: dialogue that isn't so by it.
Speaker 4: I don't help.
Speaker 7: But when you go through such an extent as he did,
Speaker 7: when it just carries on and carries on, and it's
Speaker 7: so detailed.
Speaker 4: And it's kind of like, hey, you know, but if
Speaker 4: it's short.
Speaker 7: Conversations here that's fine.
Speaker 4: You know, we all have to pull something rem memory.
Speaker 4: You kind of got to give it because I'll tell
Speaker 4: you what.
Speaker 7: The people I've found, they love it when there's a
Speaker 7: story to it. If you can take it and turn
Speaker 7: it into a Lifetime.
Speaker 4: Movie of the Week, they'll love it.
Speaker 7: I can't figure that out, but I will love it.
Speaker 7: There's just kind of a flow because then you don't
Speaker 7: get just to the.
Speaker 4: Troy crime writers. Because Troy Crome writers. We love Trey Crome.
Speaker 7: It doesn't matter what it is. But if you want
Speaker 7: to reach out there to a few others who they
Speaker 7: don't always worry true crime, and it's the here and there.
Speaker 4: If you give it a nice flow.
Speaker 7: And you can turn it into a movie of the weight,
Speaker 7: they'll read it.
Speaker 4: And I think it's because it's softer them.
Speaker 3: And you know, the thing is about Jack Wilson. For
Speaker 3: those people listening who have never read Jack Wilson, I've
Speaker 3: ventured into reading him. He just makes every story. If
Speaker 3: you really want to start with one author, it would
Speaker 3: be Jack Wilson because he could just of course, he
Speaker 3: picks great stories. He's done the Arthur Shawcross story too.
Speaker 3: But he takes stories and because he's such a good writer,
Speaker 3: it almost seems effortless. The next thing you know you're reading.
Speaker 3: And that's the one thing about true crime. I've read
Speaker 3: a lot of books, the true crime specifically doesn't fool around.
Speaker 3: The good true crime gets you to read the thing
Speaker 3: in a couple of days because you don't want to
Speaker 3: put the thing down. You're just what's happening next. And
Speaker 3: I don't think any shot.
Speaker 7: Pardon me, I started to sell it doesn't matter if
Speaker 7: it's just one hundred pages or if it's five hundred pages.
Speaker 7: If within those first the first four or five pages,
Speaker 7: if you can suck it in, if you can get
Speaker 7: them in there, capture their attention, then it's going to be.
Speaker 7: Like I said, it doesn't matter one hundred pages, five
Speaker 7: hundred pages. They're gonna read it and they're not gonna
Speaker 7: put it down. And you'll hear them say plenty of
Speaker 7: times I stayed up all that and read this. I
Speaker 7: know I've done that myself numerous times. That you just
Speaker 7: you've got to get in there and it doesn't matter
Speaker 7: because you've just got to know.
Speaker 4: You got to find it all out.
Speaker 3: And it's very interesting too, despite the fact that you
Speaker 3: it's a foregone conclusion, what's going to go on? And
Speaker 3: yet you're still reading the thing like there's some mystery.
Speaker 3: You know, it's very you know the ability of the
Speaker 3: author to be able to add all of this tension
Speaker 3: and and all this, you know, this drive for you
Speaker 3: to turn page after page. But at the same time,
Speaker 3: if you really just read the back of the front,
Speaker 3: you'd know what happened. But it's still your.
Speaker 7: Compelled You have many times somebody has said to me, Dan,
Speaker 7: would you tell me what was going to happen? And
Speaker 7: my response to that is is it's a true crime.
Speaker 4: You know what's going to happen.
Speaker 7: I means it take a rocket signed And I think
Speaker 7: that the suspense and the threell comes with.
Speaker 4: The how they got there? What did they do? And
Speaker 4: how did you in the background.
Speaker 7: Let me tell you, I can't tell you how many
Speaker 7: times people say background, background, background, background, And if you
Speaker 7: can get a hold of that background is awesome, because
Speaker 7: what we want to know the majority of a serrena
Speaker 7: what makes him tick?
Speaker 4: What makes her tick? Why did they do what they do?
Speaker 7: You know, did you know was mommy mean to them
Speaker 7: and lock them in a closet? You know, did Daddy
Speaker 7: beat them with a belt every day, you know. Did
Speaker 7: you know Grandma beat them with a hickory stick?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 4: I mean, what made them that way?
Speaker 3: Are there any conceivable reasons why this guy could do this?
Speaker 7: Is what I think people want to know exactly what
Speaker 7: we're looking for. Why, because I think date down for
Speaker 7: all of us too. We're also looking at could that
Speaker 7: be this guy over here? Could that be the lady
Speaker 7: over here? And you scrutin us and I know, and
Speaker 7: we don't cite that out well a lot because that
Speaker 7: just doesn't sound very nassil us, But we cite that
Speaker 7: among ourselves quietly, you know. I just want to know
Speaker 7: we're varwyors, is what we are really? Tree Crome writers
Speaker 7: are voyeurs.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: The other thing after jack Olson you must have you
Speaker 3: must have some other favorite authors.
Speaker 4: I know.
Speaker 3: I've read a bunch of your reviews, like you said,
Speaker 3: and rule really affected you. For those persons that, yeah,
Speaker 3: first it just dropped off a truck and they're just
Speaker 3: listening now and they've never read too many true crime books.
Speaker 3: Tell us, in your opinion, some of the better writers
Speaker 3: in true crime that the better books that you've read
Speaker 3: and the authors that have written them tell us a
Speaker 3: little bit about some of your other favorites as well.
Speaker 4: Well, let's tell them that they've got to readers for me.
Speaker 7: But we've got to tell them that they've got to
Speaker 7: read Dan Sapaisky's books about Sydney Tirius. We got to
Speaker 7: meet in that one because while okay, now I got
Speaker 7: that plug in seriously, not really, it was a good
Speaker 7: book and I really do highly recommend it. But another
Speaker 7: one of my favorite authors has to be Catherine Casey.
Speaker 7: When it comes to looking at female authors, I.
Speaker 4: Tell you what she's really she has come right on up.
Speaker 7: Her books just keep getting better every time. And I
Speaker 7: really like Corey Mitchell's. He gives us what one or
Speaker 7: two a year, maybe they're really good. And William Phelps,
Speaker 7: He's he is a wonderful, wonderful writer. And Greg Olsen
Speaker 7: he does some really touching books, you know, And even
Speaker 7: though he doesn't have any relation to Jack Olson, He's
Speaker 7: still has a writing style that's very similar to it.
Speaker 4: At least it reminds me of and you gotta wonder
Speaker 4: there maybe there's some relations.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 4: And and then like Ron Francell, he wrote a book.
Speaker 7: Oh wow, now the name of it just completely slits
Speaker 7: my mind.
Speaker 4: The Darkest Knot, Uh, that one is I must read for.
Speaker 7: Anybody getting at at her crime.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 7: It's done more focused on the victims than I mean.
Speaker 7: It tells the story of the of what happened and
Speaker 7: the two guys who did it, and that's interesting. But
Speaker 7: he also really talks to you about the victims. And
Speaker 7: I think that was one that really will stay with
Speaker 7: me for a long time.
Speaker 3: And that's the Darkest Knight by Ron Franzel. Yes, yes, okay,
Speaker 3: I think his last name is spelt f r A
Speaker 3: N s C E l L or something along those lines,
Speaker 3: the E L L.
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, but it is absolutely one that.
Speaker 7: Has to be read.
Speaker 3: What about what about when you talk about when you
Speaker 3: talk about Greg Olsen? For those people that say this,
Speaker 3: because there's a fair amount of Greg Olson William Phelps.
Speaker 3: What Greg Olsen one would you recommend if you had
Speaker 3: had your brothers?
Speaker 4: Oh, any of his? But I tell you what one
Speaker 4: I really enjoyed a Starvation Heights.
Speaker 7: Somehow I had missed that one all this time because
Speaker 7: it's one of his older ones.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's very interesting.
Speaker 7: It is, uh, and of course I'm a history buff two,
Speaker 7: but it was it was interesting. It was I won't
Speaker 7: say too much, but wow, really people who call themselves
Speaker 7: doctors back in nineteen hundreds early nineteen hundreds.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a different true crime book, but it's still
Speaker 3: it's an incredible crime.
Speaker 4: So yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 7: And his last one that came out, A Twisted Faith.
Speaker 7: Tell you what, that one gets a lot of debate
Speaker 7: at what was that a trou crime block A twisted
Speaker 7: faith where it's about the minister who got several of
Speaker 7: his women's you know, to have adulterosa fires on the
Speaker 7: name of God and everything anymore.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that one is. It's a great debite one.
Speaker 7: Uh yeah, they'll have to check that one out, it,
Speaker 7: you know, in my side, because lots of back and
Speaker 7: forth on that one.
Speaker 4: Very you know, check it out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know Corey Mitchell. I had him on the
Speaker 3: program for Savage Son and I read I think it
Speaker 3: was pure Jesus Strangler. I read the first book I
Speaker 3: read from him. So he's a great author. It's a
Speaker 3: part of he is had a lot of talent. Yeah,
Speaker 3: oh yeah, he's very good. I haven't read anything from
Speaker 3: Catherine Casey, so I'm just going to take that recommendation
Speaker 3: now you've talked about some of some of your favorite authors.
Speaker 3: Who are some of the authors that that you review
Speaker 3: this year that you thought were particularly interesting? Some of
Speaker 3: the best of twenty ten so far?
Speaker 4: I say, is what the best of twenty ten so far?
Speaker 4: I would have to be?
Speaker 7: And of course this is going to go back probably
Speaker 7: one of my favorite authors, but I would have to
Speaker 7: say Catherine Casey Shattered okay, and William Phelps's death trout.
Speaker 7: Let's see here, I'm gonna say Greg Olsen's a Twisted faith.
Speaker 4: Wow, Dan, I can't I think, I can't think you.
Speaker 4: I cand of keep me a list going back and forth.
Speaker 7: That I sit here, and of course I can't, I
Speaker 7: don't have it in front of me. But a lot
Speaker 7: of times I just kind of keep me a little
Speaker 7: list here and there, you know, going okay, this one
Speaker 7: here and this one there.
Speaker 3: Well, people can go to your your review site too,
Speaker 3: I'm putting on.
Speaker 4: I don't mention a lot of time.
Speaker 7: I mean, I don't always say because I kind of
Speaker 7: wait till the end of the year and go, okay,
Speaker 7: these are but a lot of times okay, when you
Speaker 7: know one's gonna be a there for sure, and I mean,
Speaker 7: it's just because it's a really shocking story and really
Speaker 7: it's one that really motivates you. But yeah, I'll definitely
Speaker 7: be doing I best of the twenty and ten come
Speaker 7: closer towards the end of the year when all the
Speaker 7: books are released.
Speaker 4: Well, that'd be great.
Speaker 3: That's really really useful for people, and so I think
Speaker 3: people will really appreciate that. Now, I wanted to ask you.
Speaker 3: We've got about seven minutes, so I wanted to get
Speaker 3: a couple other things. I discover the true crime market
Speaker 3: market is predominantly women readers. Do you have any idea
Speaker 3: of why do you think women are interested in this
Speaker 3: John are rather than men, even though given that a
Speaker 3: lot of the books are gory, detail and right, which.
Speaker 4: Kind of might surprising.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think the first and foremost thing is that
Speaker 7: women are predominantly the riders period.
Speaker 4: That's right, more.
Speaker 7: Women read than man, So that's going to give it
Speaker 7: an unfair advantage. But you know, I've asked that question
Speaker 7: before on our Facebook group. You know why, and the
Speaker 7: answers that you see come back is because women, they
Speaker 7: say that we're actually reading this because subconsciously we're learning
Speaker 7: how to defend ourselves and there was actually some research
Speaker 7: done on that, and somebody had posted a link to it,
Speaker 7: and I can't remember what it was done, but it
Speaker 7: was from some group like Cambridge or something that actually
Speaker 7: study this and said that women are subconsciously interesting in
Speaker 7: it because we feel like we're learning to protect ourselves,
Speaker 7: how to defend ourselves, what to look for, what to avoid,
Speaker 7: and so they said that it's a subconscious thing about
Speaker 7: just simply protecting ourselves, which made sense now, you know,
Speaker 7: just to say, hey, okay, this is what happened.
Speaker 4: Here, this is how to avoid this situation.
Speaker 3: Do you also think too, it's a certain amount of
Speaker 3: vast majority of victims of these serial killers, especially are
Speaker 3: women are working on the streets as sex trade workers.
Speaker 3: Do you think that at least the women that are
Speaker 3: reading true crime can empathize with those people. They don't
Speaker 3: have any problems with those people as with their occupation
Speaker 3: per se. They can actually empathize with those people as
Speaker 3: women first and then victims second.
Speaker 7: Honestly, Dan, I don't think so. I don't think that
Speaker 7: has anything to I mean, we have sympathy, we empathize
Speaker 7: with them, but at the same time we're somewhat you know,
Speaker 7: and I know I don't speak for everyone whomen make
Speaker 7: that disclaimer, but I think we're somewhat of a critical
Speaker 7: group too, going well, if you weren't you know, in
Speaker 7: that particular case, Okay, well you were out there on
Speaker 7: the street. You know, you put yourself in this. You know,
Speaker 7: it shouldn't have happened to you.
Speaker 4: But that's not me.
Speaker 7: And I know that sounds very harsh, but you know,
Speaker 7: I think that's what we do though life. Think we
Speaker 7: kind of go, Okay, that's not me, so that can
Speaker 7: happen to me, and at the same time kind of like, okay, yeah,
Speaker 7: but you know she was out there and working the streets.
Speaker 7: Not saying that we don't have any empathy. We do,
Speaker 7: it's just that we also are a group of people
Speaker 7: who hold people to personal accountability.
Speaker 3: Right right.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: Now, I wanted to ask you because I've seen this
Speaker 3: little trends. I've seen a change into publishing business in
Speaker 3: the last few years. But I've seen is the size,
Speaker 3: the price and the quality of the books are going
Speaker 3: up in true crime, where nonfiction books are still quite expensive,
Speaker 3: and yet true crime up till just recently, as we
Speaker 3: made pocketbook size for years and fairly cheap both seven
Speaker 3: bucks in the US. Have you noticed any changes in
Speaker 3: the genre in the last few years in terms of
Speaker 3: what I just mentioned other.
Speaker 7: Than expansion.
Speaker 4: Vailability, No, not really.
Speaker 7: I mean we seem to almost kind of be frozen.
Speaker 7: I've noticed that a few other authors have tried to
Speaker 7: do an increase in price, you know, just to account
Speaker 7: for printing cost in flight, and it didn't seem to
Speaker 7: do well, so they had to drop back down. We
Speaker 7: seem to be holding steady that I can't explain.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, well, sure any of it gets to the
Speaker 3: point where people buy more. I mean, that's the thing
Speaker 3: that's just will I do see just a little bit
Speaker 3: of a trend between some of the authors just having
Speaker 3: bigger books, and so I don't know, maybe something of.
Speaker 7: Almost where more is better when that's not always the case,
Speaker 7: you know, the thicker books more. But as far as
Speaker 7: I mean, you've always got your different writing styles and
Speaker 7: those have been around forever. But other than just the
Speaker 7: addition of a lot more new authors, a lot more
Speaker 7: lesser known cases than the big media cases, the ones
Speaker 7: that were making Nancy Grace and everything, I don't really
Speaker 7: see much difference, you know, I'm not saying much difference there.
Speaker 3: We'll see what I What I thought was that once
Speaker 3: upon a time, true crime was hardcover and you had
Speaker 3: authors like Norman Mailer and Joseph Wambaugh. So it was
Speaker 3: hardcover and it was it was fairly legitimate nonfiction. And
Speaker 3: now in the last bunch of years, it's gotten well,
Speaker 3: it's been reduced somewhat. You know, you don't have the
Speaker 3: we'll say the biggest nonfiction authors doing true crime per se.
Speaker 3: The true crime authors stay in that genre. It's it
Speaker 3: seems like, but I.
Speaker 4: See now that I think they're a lot like the Raiders.
Speaker 4: I think they're loyal.
Speaker 7: I think they're loyal to their fans, to their followers.
Speaker 4: I think.
Speaker 7: We're all kind of a group that's very stuck. We're
Speaker 7: all happy with one another.
Speaker 3: What's a good community, the true crime community. I'm very
Speaker 3: very I'm very impressed, you know. Yeah, I'm very impressed
Speaker 3: with the camaraderie and people helping other people in that community.
Speaker 3: So it's very it's a very interesting community, for sure.
Speaker 3: It's everybody helping out, so it's it's not so bad.
Speaker 4: Oh, it's a wonderful. I'll tell you what.
Speaker 7: I've met so many wonderful people and made so many
Speaker 7: close friends all around the world. And like I said,
Speaker 7: it's just everybody.
Speaker 4: There's unity there that you don't find in the.
Speaker 7: Broader you know, uh, suspense, thriller fiction or anything. Oh,
Speaker 7: you can discuss those books, but there's not a unity,
Speaker 7: there's not a togetherness.
Speaker 4: Yeah, of course, we're all kind of taking care of
Speaker 4: each other.
Speaker 7: Since people are, you know, typically criticizing this and going
Speaker 7: you read that, why.
Speaker 4: We have to take care of each other.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, the only people that understand each other.
Speaker 4: That's it, exactly.
Speaker 3: We get each other, that's right. We appreciate each other.
Speaker 3: So that's good.
Speaker 4: Exactly.
Speaker 3: Well, we're almost at the end of our program now,
Speaker 3: so I wanted to let people know maybe you can
Speaker 3: put a plug in for your true crime book review.
Speaker 3: I'll let them know where to go and when to
Speaker 3: go and give a little bit of information about your
Speaker 3: true crime book reviews.
Speaker 7: Kim Righty, Well, they can visit us at www dot
Speaker 7: truecrimebook reviews dot com. I published true crime book reviews
Speaker 7: on Mondays and Wednesdays, and on Fridays. We do have
Speaker 7: Friday Fiction for the people who want a little something
Speaker 7: different here and there. I do invite guest authors who
Speaker 7: would like to do reviews or anything, So just send
Speaker 7: me an email on the addresses there on my website,
Speaker 7: and I hope that they'll come and see us.
Speaker 3: And you do welcome input from fans and obviously encourage people.
Speaker 3: Encourage people to come on and comment on your reviews
Speaker 3: and whether they like it or they don't like or disagree,
Speaker 3: you're very encouraging. Yeah, it makes it all good. Well, Kim,
Speaker 3: I want to thank you very for a very very
Speaker 3: informative and very enjoyable interview. Thank you very much for
Speaker 3: taking the time out to come on the program tonight.
Speaker 4: Well, Dan, I want to thank you for having me.
Speaker 7: This was interesting and I tell you what, I had
Speaker 7: a good time talking to you.
Speaker 3: Oh great, Well, thank you very much. Have a good evening.
Speaker 7: Alrighty YouTube, good night, Kim, all right, good night, by
Speaker 7: good night.
Speaker 3: You've been listening to the program True Murder, the most
Speaker 3: shocking killers in true crime history and the authors that
Speaker 3: have written about them, with your host Dan Zupanski.
Speaker 6: Good Night,