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True Murder with 32 00:01:38.079 --> 00:01:51.599 your host, journalist and author Dan Zupansky. Good Evening. 33 00:01:51.640 --> 00:01:54.480 This is your host Dan Zupanski for the program True Murder, 34 00:01:54.519 --> 00:01:57.159 The most Shocking Killers in True crime History and the 35 00:01:57.200 --> 00:02:01.640 authors that have written about them. Kim Cantrell has been 36 00:02:01.719 --> 00:02:05.680 reading true crime for twenty plus years, becoming hook after 37 00:02:05.799 --> 00:02:08.319 checking out a true crime story from her high school library. 38 00:02:09.000 --> 00:02:11.240 Her interest in the judicial system led to a career 39 00:02:11.240 --> 00:02:14.879 as a legal secretary, then on to private investigations until 40 00:02:14.919 --> 00:02:18.360 two thousand and two. Kim decided to expose herself as 41 00:02:18.400 --> 00:02:21.240 a fan of this very closeted genre when she began 42 00:02:21.280 --> 00:02:24.759 reviewing on Amazon in two thousand and six, quickly rising 43 00:02:24.800 --> 00:02:28.360 to a top reviewer rank. Seeing the growing intensity of 44 00:02:28.400 --> 00:02:30.840 the genre and the loyalty of its readers, coupled with 45 00:02:30.879 --> 00:02:34.439 the difficulty of fans finding books, she decided it was 46 00:02:34.520 --> 00:02:36.800 time to take it all to a new level with 47 00:02:36.879 --> 00:02:39.879 a site dedicated just to true crime books, What's new, 48 00:02:40.199 --> 00:02:44.319 Who's new, and the classics otherwise long forgotten true crime 49 00:02:44.319 --> 00:02:48.039 book reviews with special guests. Kim Cantrell, thank you very 50 00:02:48.120 --> 00:02:50.680 much for green to this interview, and welcome to the program. 51 00:02:51.039 --> 00:02:56.479 Kim Cantrell, Thank you, Dan, thank you well, Thank you 52 00:02:56.560 --> 00:03:00.919 very much. It's a big thrill. I've had reruns rebroadcast 53 00:03:01.120 --> 00:03:03.080 shows in the summer because I found it very hard 54 00:03:03.159 --> 00:03:05.120 to get a hold of people, and people have lives 55 00:03:05.120 --> 00:03:08.400 in the summer, I find even myself. So this is 56 00:03:08.439 --> 00:03:11.120 my first live program here in the fall lineup. So 57 00:03:11.599 --> 00:03:13.800 I think it's a really special program because I think 58 00:03:13.800 --> 00:03:16.680 a lot of people who read True Murder know who 59 00:03:16.680 --> 00:03:20.599 you are, rely on your true crime book reviews, and 60 00:03:20.680 --> 00:03:24.280 you're doing an incredible service. So I really want to 61 00:03:24.319 --> 00:03:26.039 I think this is going to be exciting program for 62 00:03:26.080 --> 00:03:27.960 a lot of people that are out there and are 63 00:03:28.000 --> 00:03:30.439 avid true crime book fans, and I think they'll know 64 00:03:30.479 --> 00:03:34.560 who you are and appreciate this interview. Now. First off, 65 00:03:36.039 --> 00:03:38.560 first off, I want to ask you if you can 66 00:03:38.680 --> 00:03:41.960 remember what was that first true crime book that really 67 00:03:42.120 --> 00:03:45.360 affected you way back over twenty years ago. 68 00:03:45.560 --> 00:03:49.199 The very first one that I read was small sacrifices 69 00:03:49.280 --> 00:03:53.400 by An Rule that would have been well, let's not 70 00:03:53.520 --> 00:03:57.039 side the year. It indite me a little bit there, 71 00:03:57.599 --> 00:03:59.759 but of course that was a long time ago. But 72 00:04:00.159 --> 00:04:04.759 you know the story of Diane downs who murdered her children, right, 73 00:04:05.000 --> 00:04:06.719 she actually had one child survive. 74 00:04:06.759 --> 00:04:07.680 It's been a lot. 75 00:04:07.560 --> 00:04:10.919 Of years, but to the best of my recollection and uh, 76 00:04:11.240 --> 00:04:16.920 just being in high school and reading that that really 77 00:04:16.920 --> 00:04:21.120 effaced you, makes you. It gives you a brutal look 78 00:04:21.639 --> 00:04:26.720 at people and saying, wow, a mother, you know, can 79 00:04:26.800 --> 00:04:27.759 do this to her children. 80 00:04:28.879 --> 00:04:31.439 Were you familiar with the story before you read the book? 81 00:04:31.879 --> 00:04:35.600 I wasn't. I wasn't, uh not at all. Had no idea. 82 00:04:35.639 --> 00:04:38.720 I had no idea who Diane Downes was, who Anne 83 00:04:38.800 --> 00:04:42.480 Rule was, had really even no concept of what true 84 00:04:42.519 --> 00:04:46.360 crime was. Just saw it on the shelf, read the 85 00:04:46.560 --> 00:04:50.720 back cover and said that sounds interesting, and then that's where. 86 00:04:50.519 --> 00:04:51.000 It all began. 87 00:04:52.040 --> 00:04:53.720 Geez, that's that's the heck of a book to get 88 00:04:53.759 --> 00:04:56.519 started with Anne Rule and small sacrifice. No wonder you 89 00:04:56.560 --> 00:04:57.639 got hooked on true crime. 90 00:04:59.600 --> 00:04:59.959 It didn't. 91 00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:00.600 It's like much. 92 00:05:01.160 --> 00:05:01.439 Yeah. 93 00:05:01.560 --> 00:05:04.319 Yeah, my first Ann Rule was a stranger beside me 94 00:05:04.399 --> 00:05:08.040 and just incredible. I was of course everyone thinks they 95 00:05:08.120 --> 00:05:10.639 know of these people. But when you read the full 96 00:05:11.040 --> 00:05:14.360 account from the masters, you know, from the really good writers, 97 00:05:14.399 --> 00:05:16.560 it's wow. You have no idea to. 98 00:05:16.680 --> 00:05:22.160 Start to look at people differently. Yeah, you never fully 99 00:05:22.439 --> 00:05:26.000 trust that anyone is who they say they are. 100 00:05:26.720 --> 00:05:27.079 Again. 101 00:05:28.160 --> 00:05:29.959 Yeah, And the thing is what you realize with these 102 00:05:29.959 --> 00:05:32.639 true crime books is that you really can't. I know, 103 00:05:32.680 --> 00:05:34.720 everybody says, well, they don't even look like one. You 104 00:05:34.759 --> 00:05:38.439 can't tell otherwise. It's not just looks, it's you like, 105 00:05:38.439 --> 00:05:40.800 like Anne Rule proved she was working with this person, 106 00:05:40.839 --> 00:05:42.879 and consider that the gentleman or friend and it ends 107 00:05:42.959 --> 00:05:44.759 up being Ted Bundy. So how wrong can you be? 108 00:05:44.959 --> 00:05:46.480 So? Right? Right? 109 00:05:46.639 --> 00:05:50.199 And I mean the neighbor next door? And that's what 110 00:05:50.279 --> 00:05:52.680 I found in a lot of these books, that the 111 00:05:52.759 --> 00:05:56.160 scenarios are just so common to what we all live 112 00:05:56.199 --> 00:05:59.279 every day. And we think we know our neighbors. We 113 00:05:59.319 --> 00:06:02.680 think we know our dance teachers, we you know, we 114 00:06:02.759 --> 00:06:05.519 think we know the people at church or at the 115 00:06:05.519 --> 00:06:10.800 Boy Scouts. We think we know them, and then suddenly, wow, 116 00:06:11.519 --> 00:06:14.160 you know, here they are. I mean a good example 117 00:06:14.160 --> 00:06:18.560 of that is Dennis Ryder, the bt K killer. He 118 00:06:18.720 --> 00:06:21.839 was in you know, he was a church elder, he 119 00:06:22.040 --> 00:06:26.959 was a boy Scout leader, highly respected member of the community, 120 00:06:27.439 --> 00:06:30.160 and then Luke where he is today. Yeah, and all 121 00:06:30.199 --> 00:06:33.120 along he was the one who was lurking, you know, 122 00:06:33.240 --> 00:06:38.800 and terrorizing people, and you just you true crime really 123 00:06:38.839 --> 00:06:43.199 shows you that you cannot really know who anyone is. 124 00:06:44.079 --> 00:06:50.120 Absolutely now with back to this, to your you know, 125 00:06:50.199 --> 00:06:53.680 your affection for true crime here over twenty years ago, 126 00:06:54.360 --> 00:06:56.720 I found it very interesting. You said you became a 127 00:06:56.839 --> 00:07:00.399 legal secretary after that. So did did reading true do 128 00:07:00.439 --> 00:07:03.959 this or you was it just a confluence of evansd 129 00:07:04.000 --> 00:07:06.000 sort of you You were interested in the law, and 130 00:07:06.480 --> 00:07:09.480 so tell us about you being a legal secretary, and 131 00:07:09.480 --> 00:07:12.720 then did your experiences there further your interest in reading 132 00:07:12.720 --> 00:07:13.560 about crime at all? 133 00:07:14.079 --> 00:07:14.279 Oh? 134 00:07:14.360 --> 00:07:19.160 Absolutely, I don't believe that I went into being a 135 00:07:19.199 --> 00:07:22.720 legal secretary because I was reading through crime. I think 136 00:07:22.800 --> 00:07:25.120 that just kind of happened. But I have no doubt 137 00:07:25.120 --> 00:07:28.800 that maybe just my personality, my interest maybe caused me 138 00:07:28.839 --> 00:07:32.759 to gravitate to a job like that. But definitely working 139 00:07:32.839 --> 00:07:37.920 I worked for an attorney here in my local hometown 140 00:07:38.000 --> 00:07:42.800 who he did a lot of defense work, and I 141 00:07:42.879 --> 00:07:45.040 just I really enjoyed that he did a lot of 142 00:07:45.240 --> 00:07:48.920 domestic family court that I didn't really care for, but 143 00:07:49.240 --> 00:07:54.160 I did enjoy the criminals, you know, And I think 144 00:07:54.199 --> 00:07:56.920 what I enjoyed about it was because learning how the 145 00:07:57.000 --> 00:08:04.079 judicial system worked, seeing how lenient we can be, seeing 146 00:08:05.160 --> 00:08:08.439 you know, the way let me think of how I 147 00:08:08.439 --> 00:08:12.519 want to probably worth this that there truly is seems 148 00:08:12.519 --> 00:08:15.879 to be at least here where I am that and 149 00:08:16.079 --> 00:08:17.879 I think this happens a lot in America, that you 150 00:08:18.079 --> 00:08:22.839 have whoever has the best attorney, which is usually the 151 00:08:22.920 --> 00:08:24.360 high dollar attorney. 152 00:08:24.360 --> 00:08:25.480 Comes out on the better end. 153 00:08:25.959 --> 00:08:30.800 Sure this is I don't think our lady Justice is blind, 154 00:08:31.360 --> 00:08:32.960 and I know a lot would disagree with me, But 155 00:08:34.240 --> 00:08:36.799 when I was working there, I really enjoyed it. And 156 00:08:38.000 --> 00:08:41.639 what I really got fascinated by was towards the end 157 00:08:41.639 --> 00:08:44.480 of the time before he retired and before I left, 158 00:08:45.120 --> 00:08:48.279 that he had a particular case that was in the 159 00:08:48.320 --> 00:08:53.600 next town over where a group of six boys had 160 00:08:53.639 --> 00:08:57.480 abducted to other boys and had killed them and threw 161 00:08:57.559 --> 00:09:00.759 them off of a bridge into the lakes here, and 162 00:09:00.879 --> 00:09:02.360 that one really kind. 163 00:09:02.159 --> 00:09:02.799 Of stepped it up. 164 00:09:02.840 --> 00:09:04.600 And I never did get to see the end of that, 165 00:09:06.279 --> 00:09:07.919 never to get to follow that one. I'm thorry rather 166 00:09:07.960 --> 00:09:10.639 than throw the newspapers and everything, but just the interlegal 167 00:09:10.679 --> 00:09:13.039 workings of that was very, very interesting, and I think 168 00:09:13.080 --> 00:09:15.759 that kind of stepped me even farther into true crime. 169 00:09:17.480 --> 00:09:21.559 Now, you mentioned also that you have worked in private investigations, 170 00:09:21.639 --> 00:09:25.240 and how did work in in this field further interest 171 00:09:25.559 --> 00:09:28.639 in true crime and what aspects of those books were 172 00:09:28.639 --> 00:09:29.840 you most interested in? 173 00:09:31.960 --> 00:09:35.240 When it's worth I'm sorry, go ahead. 174 00:09:35.600 --> 00:09:38.879 No, no, I'm sorry. If I if I questions confusing, 175 00:09:38.960 --> 00:09:39.759 I'll qualify it. 176 00:09:39.759 --> 00:09:46.600 But well, okay, with private investigations, really, in all honesty, Dan, 177 00:09:47.039 --> 00:09:50.200 private investigations leads more to humorous boots for. 178 00:09:50.279 --> 00:09:51.559 The overall work. 179 00:09:52.720 --> 00:09:54.679 You find more humorous situations there. 180 00:09:55.000 --> 00:09:55.919 But I did. 181 00:09:57.120 --> 00:09:59.679 I think it was just again that whole gravitational thing 182 00:09:59.759 --> 00:10:04.080 of my personality, what I'm suited with and what I liked, 183 00:10:04.120 --> 00:10:06.279 and there was some interesting things that came along, but 184 00:10:06.320 --> 00:10:09.200 I don't know that it really spurred me on any 185 00:10:09.240 --> 00:10:11.440 more towards true crime. It just kind of fed a 186 00:10:11.440 --> 00:10:16.039 little bit more of that whole variuristic personality that comes 187 00:10:16.080 --> 00:10:17.480 with a true crime reader. 188 00:10:18.120 --> 00:10:21.120 So there weren't so much serious private investigations that you 189 00:10:21.120 --> 00:10:23.159 were involved in necessarily. 190 00:10:22.759 --> 00:10:28.519 There were some, but as far as anything that's really noteworthy. No. Now, 191 00:10:28.639 --> 00:10:31.440 like I said, anything that was noteworthy would actually be 192 00:10:31.440 --> 00:10:33.360 better qualified for a humorous book. 193 00:10:35.720 --> 00:10:39.159 Now, you began reviewing books for Amazon, and was it 194 00:10:39.159 --> 00:10:42.200 that were you doing specifically true crime books for Amazon? 195 00:10:42.360 --> 00:10:44.519 And what made you want to do book reviews in 196 00:10:44.519 --> 00:10:45.120 the first place. 197 00:10:45.840 --> 00:10:47.080 Well, the very first. 198 00:10:46.840 --> 00:10:50.240 Thing that made me want to do true crime reviews 199 00:10:50.679 --> 00:10:54.080 was I had read a book. It was titled A 200 00:10:54.080 --> 00:10:58.279 Stranger in the Family, and it was a book that 201 00:10:58.440 --> 00:11:04.200 was essentially four hundred pages of a mother's whine about 202 00:11:04.200 --> 00:11:07.320 how her son, who was a serial rapist and had 203 00:11:07.399 --> 00:11:12.279 murdered one of his victims, was being treated so badly 204 00:11:12.600 --> 00:11:16.399 behind bars that he was all the injustices that he 205 00:11:16.559 --> 00:11:20.600 was suffering, and it just really enraged me. And it 206 00:11:20.720 --> 00:11:24.080 was like, wait a second, this guy has raped numerous women, 207 00:11:24.759 --> 00:11:29.679 he has murdered one of his victims, and you're whining 208 00:11:29.879 --> 00:11:34.679 about how he is being treated. And I had to 209 00:11:34.720 --> 00:11:37.440 speak out about it. I had to say something about it. 210 00:11:37.840 --> 00:11:39.679 And I just happened to land. 211 00:11:39.440 --> 00:11:42.639 At Amazon and did the review, and really just it 212 00:11:42.679 --> 00:11:46.879 was a very amateur review, but I was angry and 213 00:11:46.919 --> 00:11:48.919 my fingers were flying over the keys, and I was 214 00:11:49.000 --> 00:11:51.080 just spewing out the anger, and from. 215 00:11:51.000 --> 00:11:52.960 There it just kind of grew. 216 00:11:53.200 --> 00:11:55.720 You know, I would go back and review another one, 217 00:11:55.759 --> 00:11:57.879 and you would have so many readers who come in 218 00:11:57.919 --> 00:11:58.440 and say. 219 00:11:58.279 --> 00:12:00.279 Oh, you know, I felt this way, this is what 220 00:12:00.840 --> 00:12:01.039 you know. 221 00:12:01.519 --> 00:12:04.080 I agree with you, and you have some that disagree. 222 00:12:04.840 --> 00:12:08.759 Right now, this isn't my type. But it just kind 223 00:12:08.759 --> 00:12:09.480 of grew from there. 224 00:12:09.519 --> 00:12:12.039 But I was just so outright that I had to 225 00:12:12.159 --> 00:12:13.320 say something. 226 00:12:14.840 --> 00:12:17.480 So Amazon appreciated some of your because I've read a 227 00:12:17.519 --> 00:12:20.840 lot of your reviews before my contacted you. I read 228 00:12:20.840 --> 00:12:22.480 a lot of reviews and I was going, oh Jesus, 229 00:12:22.519 --> 00:12:24.960 was a little worried there, I mean, because some of 230 00:12:25.000 --> 00:12:28.320 your you're very passionate. You're very detailed, very comprehensive. Like 231 00:12:28.360 --> 00:12:32.120 I said, but not everybody gets a good review, and 232 00:12:32.279 --> 00:12:35.440 in fact, you're very passionate and very specific on why 233 00:12:35.679 --> 00:12:40.120 certain books are not, in your estimation, a good read 234 00:12:40.159 --> 00:12:44.039 and a worthwhile reading for your for the fans of 235 00:12:44.080 --> 00:12:46.960 the site that are reading through crime. Have you had 236 00:12:47.120 --> 00:12:51.200 any time where you've had angry authors, you know, out 237 00:12:51.240 --> 00:12:53.480 of the ordinary, we'll say, I mean, obviously some people 238 00:12:53.480 --> 00:12:56.240 don't agree with your reviews, but if you had any 239 00:12:56.320 --> 00:12:59.000 incident over the years, in the last few years where 240 00:12:59.480 --> 00:13:03.360 somebody was especially upset and didn't agree with your review. 241 00:13:05.120 --> 00:13:09.879 As far as authors, you would be surprised how many 242 00:13:09.919 --> 00:13:12.440 of them actually take the time to thank me for 243 00:13:12.600 --> 00:13:16.080 my critical reviews and say, okay, you pointed this out 244 00:13:16.120 --> 00:13:20.519 to me. I never considered that. Typically when I get 245 00:13:20.559 --> 00:13:26.000 the angry responses, it is from people who are relatives 246 00:13:26.200 --> 00:13:31.679 of the victim or the convicted. That's typically our their friends, 247 00:13:31.720 --> 00:13:36.399 their family, and they're outraged because, well, what they say 248 00:13:36.480 --> 00:13:39.919 is the author and by me doing the review, we're 249 00:13:39.960 --> 00:13:42.080 making money off of somebody else's hardship. 250 00:13:42.200 --> 00:13:44.399 Oh really, you get that yourself as well. 251 00:13:44.720 --> 00:13:48.600 Well, yes, yes I do, and I really really hate 252 00:13:48.639 --> 00:13:51.480 that when they say that. And my typical response to 253 00:13:51.559 --> 00:13:55.399 them is, first of all, it is a story that's 254 00:13:55.399 --> 00:13:55.919 out there. 255 00:13:56.840 --> 00:13:59.240 But if you do not want somebody. 256 00:13:58.840 --> 00:14:03.080 Making money off of the atrocities of Lost the End, 257 00:14:03.159 --> 00:14:08.240 you have to shut down your radio, your television, your 258 00:14:09.240 --> 00:14:15.679 even your fictional television shows like CSI, NCIS. You have 259 00:14:15.759 --> 00:14:18.240 to shut those down because those are usually spin offs 260 00:14:18.320 --> 00:14:20.840 of something that happened in real life. You have to 261 00:14:20.879 --> 00:14:23.799 shut down fictional books, which typically have some kind of 262 00:14:23.919 --> 00:14:26.919 visis to something that's really happened. You know, if you 263 00:14:27.000 --> 00:14:29.279 really want to go the route of somebody not making 264 00:14:29.320 --> 00:14:31.399 money off of it, then you have to shut down 265 00:14:31.639 --> 00:14:35.039 everything completely, and that's just not fasible. 266 00:14:36.679 --> 00:14:39.519 Yeah. I know that what you had said well as well, 267 00:14:39.559 --> 00:14:41.759 and I agreed with you in one of our emails. 268 00:14:41.759 --> 00:14:47.600 He said, you find it very unusual or very interesting 269 00:14:47.639 --> 00:14:52.159 when somebody criticizes someone for writing true crime or reading 270 00:14:52.159 --> 00:14:54.600 true crime, or like in your case, reviewing it and 271 00:14:54.720 --> 00:14:59.799 in their mind promoting true crime book. Whereas somebody writing 272 00:14:59.840 --> 00:15:03.960 a fictional book, no matter how depraved, whether it's Hannibal 273 00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:07.159 Lecter that that Silence of the Lambs or whatever, that 274 00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:10.799 there's a that people don't criticize that. So it seems 275 00:15:10.879 --> 00:15:14.279 unusual for people. It makes no sense to me at all. 276 00:15:15.200 --> 00:15:16.240 It doesn't to me either. 277 00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:19.320 They will flop to the movies, they will watch the 278 00:15:19.559 --> 00:15:23.399 you know, the ten o'clock news, they'll watch CSI and 279 00:15:23.879 --> 00:15:27.039 HAS it has very high ratings, and they're gung ho 280 00:15:27.159 --> 00:15:29.720 about that. But for some reason, when it happens in 281 00:15:29.799 --> 00:15:32.879 real life and somebody decides to tell that story in 282 00:15:32.919 --> 00:15:37.360 a book form, it brings out the worst. It brings 283 00:15:37.399 --> 00:15:39.960 out the worst. But I just don't let them bother me, 284 00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:44.200 you know, because I just I take it that they 285 00:15:44.279 --> 00:15:48.200 are maybe just lashing out, that they're hurt and anger 286 00:15:48.279 --> 00:15:50.399 and this is just one more way that's maybe a 287 00:15:50.440 --> 00:15:53.120 healing process for them. But I let them know, you know, 288 00:15:53.240 --> 00:15:55.759 this just it doesn't work this way. There's going to 289 00:15:55.879 --> 00:15:58.639 be people who tell the stories, whether it's your news media, 290 00:15:58.759 --> 00:16:00.399 your radio media, what iver. 291 00:16:00.440 --> 00:16:01.440 Somebody's going to tell. 292 00:16:01.320 --> 00:16:03.720 The story, and this is just one more person telling 293 00:16:03.720 --> 00:16:07.240 the story. And most authors I've found will type the 294 00:16:07.279 --> 00:16:11.679 time to at least attempt to interview friends and family 295 00:16:11.840 --> 00:16:14.840 to get their input on the book. They're actually very 296 00:16:14.919 --> 00:16:17.600 kind to them and want to type the time to 297 00:16:17.639 --> 00:16:19.639 interview them and talk to them and give them the 298 00:16:19.679 --> 00:16:24.039 opportunity to site there you know, their thoughts therapy. 299 00:16:24.240 --> 00:16:26.320 Hello, it is Ryan and I was on a flight 300 00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:28.519 the other day playing one of my favorite social spin 301 00:16:28.639 --> 00:16:31.240 slot games on chumbacasino dot com. I looked over the 302 00:16:31.279 --> 00:16:33.120 person sitting next to me and you know what they 303 00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:36.000 were doing. They were also playing Chumpa Casino. Coincidence, I 304 00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:38.679 think not everybody's loving having fun with it. Chumba Casino's 305 00:16:38.679 --> 00:16:40.960 home to hundreds at casino style games, you can play 306 00:16:41.000 --> 00:16:44.799 for free anytime, anywhere, even at thirty thousand feet. 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And this person now has 315 00:17:08.400 --> 00:17:12.720 become a real activist and the government uses him basically 316 00:17:12.839 --> 00:17:18.319 because he's a good you know, he's photogenic and the cameras, 317 00:17:18.720 --> 00:17:21.759 you know, the media likes him and he so they 318 00:17:21.759 --> 00:17:24.680 can use him politically sometimes. But he approached me at 319 00:17:24.759 --> 00:17:27.920 the trial and said the same thing that he was 320 00:17:28.119 --> 00:17:33.000 critical of me paying. I offered to pay for the 321 00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:36.480 information as it was the Son of Sam law where 322 00:17:36.519 --> 00:17:40.720 you cannot profit off a crime a notoriety of a crime. 323 00:17:41.519 --> 00:17:44.519 The law did pass, and of course, but still I 324 00:17:44.640 --> 00:17:47.400 was still criticized. But my point was is that the 325 00:17:47.480 --> 00:17:49.599 people that I can understand and the people that I 326 00:17:49.680 --> 00:17:53.799 would not argue with are the victims, the victims parents 327 00:17:53.920 --> 00:17:56.400 or victims family like that, because they've just gone through 328 00:17:56.440 --> 00:17:58.519 this incredible thing and they want to lash out at 329 00:17:58.559 --> 00:18:01.839 so many different people, and unfortunately they wouldn't last showed 330 00:18:01.839 --> 00:18:05.920 at the judicial system. Potentially, it's better to pick a 331 00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:10.200 target like an author, after everyone else is exhausted. It's 332 00:18:10.319 --> 00:18:13.119 just someone there. So I can understand these people that. 333 00:18:13.240 --> 00:18:17.920 Authors are easier targets because you know, Okay, your picture 334 00:18:17.960 --> 00:18:19.920 may be on the cover of the book, but you're 335 00:18:19.960 --> 00:18:23.440 not sitting there behind the anchor desk every night, so 336 00:18:24.279 --> 00:18:26.079 it's a little different. And I do think that they 337 00:18:26.119 --> 00:18:28.079 a lot of times take the brunt of it when 338 00:18:28.079 --> 00:18:31.640 there's nobody else and somebody like me who's definitely behind 339 00:18:31.720 --> 00:18:36.119 the scenes take and I try to understand and let 340 00:18:36.160 --> 00:18:41.079 them and just remind them. But while we're on the subject, 341 00:18:41.200 --> 00:18:44.759 can I ask you a question on your you mentioned 342 00:18:44.799 --> 00:18:49.279 you just you mentioned it about Canada just now passing 343 00:18:50.160 --> 00:18:51.359 a son of Sam law. 344 00:18:52.519 --> 00:18:54.319 That's not way it works. That What it is is 345 00:18:54.359 --> 00:18:57.359 that it's like similar we have ten provinces and you 346 00:18:57.480 --> 00:19:01.079 have your fifty states. So right, it's stayed by state 347 00:19:01.559 --> 00:19:05.000 legislation and we go province by province, and for some reason, 348 00:19:05.519 --> 00:19:11.319 this province took till two thousand and five to draft 349 00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:15.480 up legislation. And what I'll tell you, which is really 350 00:19:15.960 --> 00:19:17.599 very very ironic, and I could have put it in 351 00:19:17.720 --> 00:19:19.240 the book, but I would have had a six hundred 352 00:19:19.240 --> 00:19:23.400 page book, is that what happened was that I was 353 00:19:23.480 --> 00:19:28.200 criticized for offering him profits of the book, and I 354 00:19:28.359 --> 00:19:31.200 knew that the law would pass, and I knew that 355 00:19:31.319 --> 00:19:33.839 I would not break the law to give him any money. 356 00:19:34.200 --> 00:19:37.160 And thirdly, I knew in my mind if anybody was 357 00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:41.480 going to criticize me, that's a small amount even if 358 00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:43.720 I did pay him, which I wouldn't to find out 359 00:19:43.720 --> 00:19:47.079 the truth. Now, what happened was is that I was 360 00:19:47.160 --> 00:19:49.480 criticized for that, and it did a lot of damage 361 00:19:50.640 --> 00:19:54.839 for my reputation as a journalist, and I can't do 362 00:19:54.920 --> 00:19:57.240 anything about that. But what was ironic is that EYE 363 00:19:57.279 --> 00:19:59.920 contacted the authorities when I found on on a website 364 00:20:00.440 --> 00:20:03.720 that Sidney Tierhuse was trying to profit off the notoriety 365 00:20:03.720 --> 00:20:07.559 of his crime directly by having three of his aboriginal paintings. 366 00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:13.359 But alongside on the website was the account of the 367 00:20:13.519 --> 00:20:20.039 murders and dismemberment, the accounts of the horrid crimes alongside 368 00:20:20.519 --> 00:20:24.599 the paintings. So exactly what the law was designated for 369 00:20:24.839 --> 00:20:28.920 designed for, is for this clown now who has already 370 00:20:28.960 --> 00:20:31.400 snubbed his nose at society and the courts and the 371 00:20:31.559 --> 00:20:34.440 victim and everybody on earth. He is now doing it 372 00:20:34.519 --> 00:20:38.839 again aboriginal art while he's in jail. Taxpayer pays for it, 373 00:20:39.079 --> 00:20:41.119 and then somebody's on a website trying to sell it 374 00:20:41.200 --> 00:20:44.160 for fifty thousand dollars, directly trying to capitalize on the 375 00:20:44.240 --> 00:20:48.279 notoriety of this guy's crimes. They could not prosecute for that. 376 00:20:48.839 --> 00:20:53.440 So you know, twenty something years after, somebody else has 377 00:20:53.480 --> 00:20:58.920 a state legislation that can prevent exactly this sort of 378 00:20:59.000 --> 00:21:03.799 thing from happening, this province couldn't do it. And in fact, 379 00:21:04.160 --> 00:21:06.759 the news broadcasters that didn't want to attend the trial 380 00:21:06.839 --> 00:21:09.799 because it was too gory and too graphic, actually put 381 00:21:10.039 --> 00:21:15.039 big color photos of his paintings on their website. 382 00:21:15.799 --> 00:21:19.839 So, and what amazes me, Dan, is that you will 383 00:21:19.920 --> 00:21:23.759 have plenty of people purchase those, but a lot of 384 00:21:23.799 --> 00:21:26.599 those same people that purchased those would be the ones 385 00:21:26.640 --> 00:21:29.000 who would frown on the true crime readers. 386 00:21:30.680 --> 00:21:33.440 Well, there was ironic will I will say I've. 387 00:21:33.319 --> 00:21:34.720 Seen that, and I've. 388 00:21:36.160 --> 00:21:38.880 They show you and go, you write your crime, you 389 00:21:39.000 --> 00:21:41.839 read your crime. Wow, But hey, I've got this painting here. 390 00:21:42.039 --> 00:21:43.559 But you know what, this is a collectible. 391 00:21:44.319 --> 00:21:47.240 Yes, no, sure, no he What happened was there was 392 00:21:47.319 --> 00:21:50.720 a there was an art organization that came out to 393 00:21:50.839 --> 00:21:54.319 defend him and his right because they said he didn't 394 00:21:54.400 --> 00:21:58.359 he was not depicting any murderous event in the paintings, 395 00:21:59.480 --> 00:22:02.279 so they were the sting his right to paint, is 396 00:22:02.440 --> 00:22:04.920 right to sell his art, and the other people were 397 00:22:04.960 --> 00:22:08.559 talking about that. You know what, we should encourage him 398 00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:11.480 to practice his art and get better, because then maybe 399 00:22:11.559 --> 00:22:13.880 he can, you know, make some money and then maybe 400 00:22:13.960 --> 00:22:16.400 pay the victims back a little bit of money, and 401 00:22:16.759 --> 00:22:19.559