Speaker 1: Oh, I like that a lot. That is Moments in
the Sun. The project is Dots in Moon and we
have Richard from Dots and Moon on the line with
us via WhatsApp. Hello, are you there?
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm here. Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, No, I'm glad you can join us today. I
really like what you're doing. The songs they've got, I mean,
obviously they you know, they sound different, but a lot
of these have a kind of a dreamy, sort of
atmospheric kind of vibe. I really like. I really like
these a lot nice to hear. Absolutely absolutely. And you're
in Are you in upstate New York or where where
are you?
Speaker 2: Exactly New York north of Buffalo. Were getting the cliched
pummel of snow right now, are you too? Yeah? But
you probably you're in New Hampshire, right.
Speaker 1: We're in New Hampshire. Yeah, yeah, you.
Speaker 2: Must get a good chunk of snow.
Speaker 1: We get well, not as much as you might think.
The winters I grew up here, and the winters here
are considerably easier now overall than they were when I
was a kid. So some years we get some years
we get a lot of snow. But we don't get
we don't get pummeled too badly. Some years we get
very little, so it's not it's not too bad. Here
we've had a cold snap, but it's it's not too bad.
But where you are? So were you because Buffalo, if
I remember a number of years ago, had like, uh,
I know, Buffalo gets a lot of snow, but didn't
that happen.
Speaker 2: Through the city and then south of the city if
you go north, it'll have an inch of snow.
Speaker 1: Oh, so it's not bad where so you're north of Buffalo.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh good. Normally it's not too bad. Today it's
a little it's a little rough.
Speaker 1: So I remember I remember seeing on the news a
few years ago it was like like multiple feet of
snow and like it just like snowed for like five
days straight.
Speaker 2: So but well, ever since that blizzard of seventy seven
hundred years ago, it's just it's, you know, it's just
a news cliche. They always you know, because we're right
in the lake. Okay, so on Lake Erie, so it
just comes right off the lake and we get slammed.
Speaker 1: Gotcha, gotcha? Uh, I'd like to know more. Tell us
more about dots and moon well, first of all, let
me ask you this right off the top. I'm sure
you answer this question all the time, but what does
where does a name come from? Dots and Moon?
Speaker 2: I just liked the sound of it, and it's just,
you know, brought up certain ideas in my mind. I mean,
the sun and the moon are both a dot, you know,
and and the sky and it just really, you know,
I just I hope it produces an image in someone's mind,
you know, of something interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolute.
Speaker 2: But it wasn't you know, it wasn't the car as
most people would think. Okay, you know, it's not D
A T, S U N. But I even thought that
was kind of cool, the idea of an old dots
on full moon.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. And now the project has changed over the years, correct,
because from what I was reading, did it used to
be a female fronted collaboration and now it's a solo project?
Is that true?
Speaker 2: Well? Even before for that, it was me and then
I had a friend of mine and it was just
the two of us and we would play guitar. When
we would play out, the two of us played guitar,
and then I would have all the sense and all
that stuff recorded on a digital recorder, and especially here
Western New York. You know, like there were rules, you know,
you didn't have pre recorded tracks and all this stuff.
But I don't know if you're familiar with carter usm
by any chance, a real old band.
Speaker 1: No, I'm not familiar with them.
Speaker 2: All right. So they're from England and they came here
and they played, and it was two guys with the
guitar on their backing tracks. And I said to my
and it sounded amazing, and I'm like, you know, I'd
rather hear a band with backing tracks. It sounds fantastic
than a band with all live members that doesn't sound good.
And it's just, you know, it was just easier to
put everything together and play. And then I met somebody
I was friends with and she's like, you know, I
can sing. So I asked her to sing this song
called Glory and then head the Warning, and then those
two songs. I was like, wow, it sounded fantastic, and
we slowly had a band, a five piece band. I
had a laptop and say, you know, say the drummer moved,
I could then just unmute the drum tracks that I
had made or had recorded from the drummer, and that
allowed the band to play out a lot more. I
played everything from you know, me and a singer to
me and four other bandmates with you know, no backing tracks.
Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, that must have been. That must have been
kind of exciting, right to have that sort of flexibility
with it where you could work with that. I'm always
fascinated by that kind of dynamic because you know, obviously
we interview a lot of musicians on the show, and
I've i myself. I'm a musician, and I've played in
a bunch of bands, but I was never I never
played in a band where you could just where you
had that kind of flexibility, you know, where you could
play in multiple different configurations over the course of shows
and and always just make it work. Like all the
bands I ever played, and it was like, you know,
we got we got the same group of guys who
are going to have to be here at every single
show because if you remove one piece, it all falls apart.
So it must have been it must have been cool.
And to be able to use technology to to sort
of give you that that flexibility.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I was a big fan of New Order,
you know, growing up. Oh yeah, you know, I saw
them live and it just it didn't seem like there
was anything wrong with it to me, to you know,
go ahead and do that. Yeah, and and it was
great too, but the best. And then I went and uh,
I got an electric drum kit because the frequency of
the synths and then the symbol crashes, it was just
piercing and it was unreal. So but i'd have I
think I played with three or four drummers over the years,
and it's a long time, and they'd all be like,
kind of am not sure and they come over and
they play that electronic drum kit and they'd be like,
this is amazing. I love this. Yeah, you'd be having
so much fun with all the signs, but they'd have
to play with a click, right, and they didn't mind
that either, you know. So it was just a lot
of fun. You know. It's more the enjoyment of getting
together with other people and playing. You know, we never
really had the opportunity to form much. We played you know,
surrounding cities, but that was about it.
Speaker 1: Do you feel like as you were doing that that
the certain stigma because there are you know, even today,
I mean it's gotten a lot better as as people
continue to embrace technology and using technology and music. But
I feel like even today, there's there's always going to
be some people who just if you don't have everything
completely live, if you've got someone on stage with something
that is creating some sort of sound other than instruments,
you know, you've got somebody up there with a laptop
or whatever. There's there's always going to be certain people
who are judgmental of that or using backing tracks or anything.
But do you feel like over the course of your
doing that, at least in the area where you were
out playing live, that the you kind of overcame that.
Speaker 2: Do you think, oh yeah, because well, and then when
we started, we you know, we'd be playing with bands
that were ten years younger because they were already embracing that. Ye.
Some you know, and some of the stuff I love now,
like a group called ASO or Keep Shelling Athens. They're
a singer and a DJ, so it's not even like
a musician. It's a DJ who has found samples and
put them all together and that type of thing. But
you know, I see where people are coming from with
live music. I mean, last night I was at a
Hofbra house, you know, with the oompampa, and you know,
and I'm watching them and the guys playing the accordion
and the other guys singing, and I'm like, what talent.
He makes it look so easy. So you know, I
get it, you know, with all live musicians, I mean,
you know, that's that's incredible skill and dedication and it
keeps showing up and practicing together, and so I get
the stigma. And I also you know, if I could
have all live musicians, I would, but you know, life
gets in the.
Speaker 1: Way, absolutely absolutely, you know, when one you're in a band.
At somebody on the show, I wish I could remember
who said it. Somebody on the show who had gone
from being in a band to doing everything solo like
like like you have done, essentially made the observation that
being in a band with say you're in a band
with three other people, it's like being in a relationship
with three other people who are also in a relationship
with three other people, and it's and that's challenging, and
you've got to work with everyone's schedules and varying levels
of commitment within that project, and it can be very
very difficult. I mean, do you find is it less stressful?
Because you've you have transitioned to doing this as a
solo project. Is it Is it overall just less stressful
doing it this way.
Speaker 2: I used to there, Yes, okay, well, you know, as
far as writing this stuff goes, you know, I always
wrote everything and then people would learn how to play
what I wrote through. For the first album, did have
a bass player, but even he would come over and
just jam with the song for four minutes, and then
I'd have to go through what he played and cut
out the you know, the snippets that I really like
the best and put them in order. So as far
as writing the stuff goes, it was always solo. But
playing live it's just more enjoyable to play with other people.
When you play live, you know, it's it's it's a
lot better. But you know, I don't even know if
I'm gonna bother because I for a year we had
a singer and a guitarist and a drummer, and then
the drummer couldn't make it because of work obligations and
another band, and then you know, the singer got accepted
into a music program, and you know, I just was
I you know, it's okay, but it's a little stressful
playing out. Maybe I'll just do, you know, do a
studio thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. The the thing with drummers too, because you
mentioned drummers, it's kind of become well, almost a running joke.
But it's not even a joke. Like every band we
have on the show, the drummer in the band is
always in like ten other bands. Yeah, and I feel
like it's I feel like it's that way everywhere. I
have a theory about that. I think it's because drummers
are have become so rare because you know, when you're
growing up and you first become interested in music and
you want to learn a musical instrument. If you approach
your parents and you say, I want to pick up
an instrument, but I want to learn drums, you know,
if it's that or I don't know, maybe the tuba,
there's a good chance they're going to try to talk
you out of it because they'd rather, you know, because
nobody wants all that noise in their house, you know,
unless they're just very very supportive. So that's that's my theory,
because yeah, I agree, Yeah, every drummer I know is
in ten bands. And can you tell tell us too
about I had read something you said. You were talking
about how the technology, about how it it both isolates
us but also helps us to make personal connections.
Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah, sometimes I forget I have little deep nuggets
like that. Yeah. Well, I mean, so, you know, writing
the song on my own, it, uh, it can be
really lonely.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I'd rather have this, you know, have someone else coming
over and and working with them and you know, having
you know, having a co writer, that would be great.
You know, So that's lonely. But on the other hand,
where I went to record this album, I wish I
would have known about him soon, and I actually I did.
A friend of mine kept urging me to go to
This guy's name is Doug White, and he's got a
studio called Watchman's Studio after the comic book. He had
two shoegaze bands, one Macar's Pen and one called Tearwave
and recorded a you know, that's like he really is
Wheelhouse and he's so easy to work with. He's really
reasonable to play with. And I can go in there
with all my stems and you know, a raw idea
and work with him for seven or eight hours and
walk out with a song and recording. I'm really happy
with Yeah, and that's you know, and you're bonding when
you're hanging out together talking and playing and making stuff,
so you know, or when we would have band practice
on a Saturday morning, that was like the highlight of
my week, just getting together with people I considered friends
and you know, playing music and then going out and
socializing and meeting other bands. So you know, your ice
related kind of when you're writing, right, but you know,
when you go to record or practice or play out,
you get to socialize. So yeah, yeah, I think that's yeah.
I mean, I don't think it could be much more
than that. I guess.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting how and I think I think the
pandemic kind of really brought this to the forefront for
a lot of people because I always say, you know,
that was a terrible experience for everybody, but it also
we have to find these silver linings where we can.
And one of the few silver linings about it was
it kind of forced people to be creative in new ways,
even though the technology was already there. You know, you
could already send files back and forth through Dropbox or
Google Drive or whatever, and you so you could you
could already do all that collaborating with people from a distance,
and people had been doing that, but I think the
pandemic kind of forced people who maybe were averse to
doing that to give it a try. And it created
this entire new wave of collaboration amongst people who thought, well,
this person's on the other side of the country, how
am I ever going to collaborate with them? Oh, okay,
well we'll give this a try. Oh turns out this
works pretty well, And so I think it. You know,
that was the most isolating thing that you know, we've
been through, you know, was the pandemic, right, and yet
and yet, because of technology, it also helped people make
a lot of new connections in profound ways that allowed
them to create together.
Speaker 2: And my friend's son is I don't know, twenty one,
and the majority of the bands he listens to are
you know, kids in their twenties early twenties, and the
bands are made up of seven people and none of
them are in the same city.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 2: It's you know, it's not even a big deal. It's
just like how it is, right, you know. So, yeah,
you know, that was the good part about the pandemic.
It's interesting though, when that was finally done and we
could go back to works. I remember somebody said, oh,
we might have to wear mask again. And when I
heard that, I realized how I didn't realize during the
pandemic how much of a strain it was putting on me.
It wasn't until afterwards and someone saying something that we
might have to go back to you know, some of
the ways we were like we thought there was going
to be another wave, and I was just like, oh
my god, I hated that. Yeah awful.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there were a lot of moments like that where
it was like, oh, oh, maybe this is finally winding down,
and maybe oh no, no it's not.
Speaker 2: Did you get it? I got it? I got I
was like four or six weeks, I can't remember, you know,
it was really at the first wave. Yeah, it was
just it was awful.
Speaker 1: I had COVID, but not until I didn't get it
until after the pandemic was kind of over, you know,
and I was I was vaxed and everything, but I did.
I did test positive at least on one occasion. I
think eventually, eventually I dodged it for a long time though.
Speaker 2: Good but uh, you weakened or something, so I know,
I wouldn't worst it on anybody.
Speaker 1: No, No, it's it's not well being being sick just
generally is uh, it's my my least favorite thing about winter.
But now, so how is how is your live situation now?
Like are you are you performing live currently? Are you
going out and playing show? No?
Speaker 2: You know, like I said, it was a year we
and I think we might have even gotten more viewership.
But we at band practice, we would get stuff done
and then we would play something on Facebook. You know,
we would actually you know, play the second half of
band practice on Facebook and a number of views and
the number of people who saw it. I started thinking,
maybe this is better than out. But no, yeah, right now,
like I said, I don't know if I really And
that's the other problem too, Like you know, I can sing,
but when I when it comes to playing live, I
don't know. It's just I'm not impressed with what I
hear when I when I play live. So I was,
you know, I needn't have to practice these songs, you
know a lot, you know, and I mean, you know,
I I take voice lessons, you know, just to keep
working on my voice. I'm not a you know, we
probably can tell, but I'm not a natural singer, you know,
it's more of that kind of guy from the church
type of.
Speaker 1: Feel ye.
Speaker 2: So, but yeah, but losing the singer we had, and
she was amazing, she was great. You know, if you
want to find a singer, go to your local alternative
karaoke because you'll find a lot of people are dying
to find bands there.
Speaker 1: Interesting.
Speaker 2: And yeah, and but she, you know, we hadn't played
out and she was starting a music program, and I
just don't know if I really want to search for
another band again. You know, I think I'd like to
just focus on playing music and maybe even go more
towards the piano. I don't know if you read that,
but there's a guy named Harold Budd. He did an
album with The Cocktail Twins and then he's done at
least two or three albums with Robin Guthrie. But he's
the guy that got me into playing piano in my
early twenties. And yeah, we lost him to COVID, but
he put out an album with well, he put out
a lot of albums, but he put out an album
with Brian Eno and the Pearl. It's called and it's
just amazing, and it's gorgeous, and for the longest time
I couldn't figure out what he was doing, and then
I figured out he pretty much just played major seventh
chords every quote he played. And that's what Robin Guthrie
does for any of your listeners that are into music
theory and yeah, and so there's like, I think one,
there's not two. I think there's at least one piano
interlude on Yeah, there's one before the last three songs
on the CD on the new album, and just kind
of going down more that vain. Yeah. You know, I
don't know if you know like Stars of the Lid
or the Cranky Label at all.
Speaker 1: No, it's kind of.
Speaker 2: It's atmosphere ambient, but it's not, you know, yoga ambient.
It's got just a little bit of a twist to
it when you listen.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, but.
Speaker 2: I'm really rambling. I didn't really, I'm tired.
Speaker 1: I was, Hey, No, that's okay, that's what we do here,
that's what we do. That's that's perfect. I'd much rather that.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 1: The worst thing is when someone comes on and they
have nothing to say, which is rarest. Most musicians like
to talk about music, but every once in a while.
You know, we might have somebody who kind of clams
up and it's like, uh.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I feel for that person.
Speaker 1: Can you tell us you about some of the themes?
I mean, like I said, you know, the music, it's
got a very you know, it's got kind of a dreamy,
atmospheric sort of vibe to it. But I mean, what
are some of the themes that you like to write about?
Speaker 2: Well, this one, you know before, you know, when when
I had a female singer, like I like to have,
you know, empowered lyrics, something that was strong, something like
you know, where someone was coming back from being the
underdog or something like that. Yeah, And with this one,
I just wanted there to be kind of like a
hopeful message, you know. And but a lot of times,
you know, and I wonder if this is true for most,
you know, singers, I would like kind of add lib
lyrics and then as I sang them and looked at
them and then you know, redid them. Like you know,
moments in the everybody has moments in the sun. It's
just like, you know, even if things are tough, you know,
you'll have good days, you know. I mean, it's not
that complex of an idea. Where or Bring Love, Bring
Loves a breakup song, but it's a song about accepting
that that breakup, but you know it, don't really realize
it until you're done kind of improvising lyrics two or
three times. You know. That's the great thing about having
home recording studios. You know, you've got that freedom to
do that, and then you look at what you've come
up with and you're like, oh, there's there's kind of
a good idea here, or you know, come up with
a story. We're an atmosphere of just you know, uh,
you know, I really liked a lot of trip hop stuff,
so just having something being kind of a little dark,
you know, but yeah, but not like in the end
of the world kind of way, but kind of like
you know, like you know, a dark movie, like what's
that Black Mirror something like that.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I haven't seen that, but I it comes
up in conversation though with people. So I people have
told me I would enjoy it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you go back to I wouldn't. I'd skipped the
very very first episode, but I go back to the
British show first and check it out.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So yeah, So either something that's kind of a dark
twist a little halloween ish or something that's got a
you know, a hopeful message on one or the other. Yeah,
generally seems what comes out, you know, things will be okay.
Speaker 1: I'm also curious too about So your newest is an EP,
but why so Moments in the Sun is an EP.
But Tiger, the previous release was, was a full album correct.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And here's why this ended up happening. And I
hope you know this doesn't sound bad, but something got
messed up on the last three songs of Tiger where
they're all they're named wrong. The three songs are like,
Moments in the Sun is Winter Streets and Winter Streets
is Army of Me. So I put the EP out
with you know, an extra new song, and then just
to get the right names on the songs because because
I know this is going to sound horrible. But if
I take Tiger down and then put it back up again, yeah,
well you lose all the streams. If you lose all
the streams, then you're starting from scratch and your music
doesn't get placed in you know, Spotify Radio or Apple
Music Suggestions and that type of thing. So you know,
you just it's just how the algorithm works. You know,
you're kind of like going back to zero. So that
is why it was done, was to try to get
the right names on the songs. And yeah, so it's
not the best reason to put out an EP I know.
Speaker 1: No, but it well, but it does, you know, it
is illustrative of of some of the pitfalls of you know,
the technology that we're working with and how it works
now with with streaming and everything. You know, it's there's
all there's a lot that can go wrong, and you know,
a lot of musicians and industry people listen to the show.
So it's it's kind of a good lesson, you know,
something to be aware of. And you're right, I mean,
you know, practically speaking, yeah, you you know, you could,
you could take it down and then put it back
up with but then, yeah, like you said, you you
lose you know, you don't want to lose whatever momentum
you've you've built, whatever equity you've built in that with
the algorithms, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you know, you know that long tail theory.
You know, just you know, you keep getting you know,
because you know, I'm not gonna make any money off this,
and I'm not going to be famous. The goal is
I I when I was a kid, when I was
like twelve, I discovered Echo and the Bunny Man and
I was able to, you know, get a CD or
an album once a month, and I was, you know,
no Internet, and I thought they were the coolest band.
I didn't realize there was a whole genre called goth
where there was other stuff like them. And I got
the Heaven up Here album and I remember as a kid,
my whole motivation to make music was that I just
want to make something that fits like a niche, you know,
in someone's record collection. Yeah, you know, like you know,
and just make something. You know, anytime I get a
new follower on YouTube or someone picks up the music
on dan Camp, I am just thrilled that I made
something that someone liked enough to spend their time listening to.
You know, I'm like, oh, I'm giving, you know, paying
forward what these bands that at the time were obscure.
You know, I know from Danny Derko and everything that
you know more, everybody you know knows who the bunny
Men are now, but back then, no one you know,
had a clue that they were. So I don't know
if that makes sense. I feel like I'm kind of rambling,
but you know that that's the goal is do it
for myself because I love it. And then I just
really hope someone out there enjoys it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, very well said, yeah, absolutely, that's what
it's all about. And then so in a moment, well,
it's been wonderful speaking with you this morning.
Speaker 2: We'll thank you so much for having me on.
Speaker 1: Well, definitely have you back in the future. I do
want to. And in a moment, we'll play, uh, we'll
play this track never had a Heart from Tiger, but
from the Tiger album. But where should Where's the best
place to go Richard for people to keep up with
everything that you're doing, with everything all things Dots and Moon.
Where should people go?
Speaker 2: Probably between band camp and I know it's not the
most popular place, but the Dots and Moon page on Facebook,
it's probably the best place to follow and keep track
of stuff coming out, so you know, singles.
Speaker 1: In that Okay, okay, wonderful.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, because I have a website, but it'll
just send you to those places Instagram or you know,
or social media.
Speaker 1: Sites, gotcha, gotcha? Yeah, speaking of algorithms and all that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then band Camp because you know, I try
not to send much out, but you know, if you're
a follower on band camp, then I can send a
message out, you know, all the followers saying, oh, there's
a new EP out or there's a new video out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, absolutely, what wonderful, wonderful. And then so we're
going to end the segment with I Never had a
Heart from your your previous release Tiger, And this is
one of the ones that you had mentioned when you
when you email Jenny, what what a special like? What
should we know about this song? Why? Why is this
one of the ones you chose?
Speaker 2: Well? I like because it's really upbeat, you know, yeah,
moves along. But also it's not negative like the title
would you'd think it's actually goes you know, heaven never
hit a heart like yours. And it's just someone is
just so amazing that even you know, uh, the image
of having like pales in comparison to someone who's just
a great person to be around.
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, it's a great concept. I love it. I
love it all right, So we're gonna play that in
a moment. We'll let you go. But Richard from Dots
and Moon, thank you so much.
Speaker 2: Like I said to you, I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Absolutely well. We'll have you back when when you've got
some new stuff. We'll definitely have you back on love,
love what you're doing. Keep up the great work, and uh,
good luck with whatever weather you're experiencing right in that
part of New York.
Speaker 2: Alright, all right, we'll take care and thank you for
having me on. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1: You got it. We'll talk to you soon. Take care, bye,
bye bye.
Speaker 2: All right.
Speaker 1: That is Richard from Dots and Moon. I do love
this project so much, and we're gonna play this. This
is from the previous release Tiger Now. This is called
Never Had a Heart