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Speaker 1: Oh, I like that a lot. That is Moments in

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the Sun. The project is Dots in Moon and we

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have Richard from Dots and Moon on the line with

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us via WhatsApp. Hello, are you there?

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Speaker 2: Yes, I'm here. Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, No, I'm glad you can join us today. I

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really like what you're doing. The songs they've got, I mean,

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obviously they you know, they sound different, but a lot

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of these have a kind of a dreamy, sort of

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atmospheric kind of vibe. I really like. I really like

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these a lot nice to hear. Absolutely absolutely. And you're

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in Are you in upstate New York or where where

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are you?

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Speaker 2: Exactly New York north of Buffalo. Were getting the cliched

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pummel of snow right now, are you too? Yeah? But

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you probably you're in New Hampshire, right.

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Speaker 1: We're in New Hampshire. Yeah, yeah, you.

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Speaker 2: Must get a good chunk of snow.

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Speaker 1: We get well, not as much as you might think.

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The winters I grew up here, and the winters here

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are considerably easier now overall than they were when I

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was a kid. So some years we get some years

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we get a lot of snow. But we don't get

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we don't get pummeled too badly. Some years we get

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very little, so it's not it's not too bad. Here

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we've had a cold snap, but it's it's not too bad.

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But where you are? So were you because Buffalo, if

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I remember a number of years ago, had like, uh,

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I know, Buffalo gets a lot of snow, but didn't

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that happen.

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Speaker 2: Through the city and then south of the city if

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you go north, it'll have an inch of snow.

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Speaker 1: Oh, so it's not bad where so you're north of Buffalo.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, oh good. Normally it's not too bad. Today it's

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a little it's a little rough.

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Speaker 1: So I remember I remember seeing on the news a

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few years ago it was like like multiple feet of

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snow and like it just like snowed for like five

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days straight.

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Speaker 2: So but well, ever since that blizzard of seventy seven

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hundred years ago, it's just it's, you know, it's just

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a news cliche. They always you know, because we're right

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in the lake. Okay, so on Lake Erie, so it

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just comes right off the lake and we get slammed.

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Speaker 1: Gotcha, gotcha? Uh, I'd like to know more. Tell us

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more about dots and moon well, first of all, let

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me ask you this right off the top. I'm sure

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you answer this question all the time, but what does

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where does a name come from? Dots and Moon?

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Speaker 2: I just liked the sound of it, and it's just,

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you know, brought up certain ideas in my mind. I mean,

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the sun and the moon are both a dot, you know,

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and and the sky and it just really, you know,

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I just I hope it produces an image in someone's mind,

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you know, of something interesting.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolute.

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Speaker 2: But it wasn't you know, it wasn't the car as

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most people would think. Okay, you know, it's not D

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A T, S U N. But I even thought that

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was kind of cool, the idea of an old dots

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on full moon.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely. And now the project has changed over the years, correct,

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because from what I was reading, did it used to

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be a female fronted collaboration and now it's a solo project?

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Is that true?

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Speaker 2: Well? Even before for that, it was me and then

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I had a friend of mine and it was just

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the two of us and we would play guitar. When

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we would play out, the two of us played guitar,

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and then I would have all the sense and all

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that stuff recorded on a digital recorder, and especially here

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Western New York. You know, like there were rules, you know,

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you didn't have pre recorded tracks and all this stuff.

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But I don't know if you're familiar with carter usm

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by any chance, a real old band.

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Speaker 1: No, I'm not familiar with them.

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Speaker 2: All right. So they're from England and they came here

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and they played, and it was two guys with the

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guitar on their backing tracks. And I said to my

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and it sounded amazing, and I'm like, you know, I'd

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rather hear a band with backing tracks. It sounds fantastic

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than a band with all live members that doesn't sound good.

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And it's just, you know, it was just easier to

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put everything together and play. And then I met somebody

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I was friends with and she's like, you know, I

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can sing. So I asked her to sing this song

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called Glory and then head the Warning, and then those

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two songs. I was like, wow, it sounded fantastic, and

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we slowly had a band, a five piece band. I

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had a laptop and say, you know, say the drummer moved,

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I could then just unmute the drum tracks that I

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had made or had recorded from the drummer, and that

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allowed the band to play out a lot more. I

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played everything from you know, me and a singer to

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me and four other bandmates with you know, no backing tracks.

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Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, that must have been. That must have been

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kind of exciting, right to have that sort of flexibility

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with it where you could work with that. I'm always

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fascinated by that kind of dynamic because you know, obviously

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we interview a lot of musicians on the show, and

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I've i myself. I'm a musician, and I've played in

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a bunch of bands, but I was never I never

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played in a band where you could just where you

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had that kind of flexibility, you know, where you could

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play in multiple different configurations over the course of shows

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and and always just make it work. Like all the

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bands I ever played, and it was like, you know,

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we got we got the same group of guys who

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are going to have to be here at every single

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show because if you remove one piece, it all falls apart.

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So it must have been it must have been cool.

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And to be able to use technology to to sort

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of give you that that flexibility.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because I was a big fan of New Order,

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you know, growing up. Oh yeah, you know, I saw

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them live and it just it didn't seem like there

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was anything wrong with it to me, to you know,

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go ahead and do that. Yeah, and and it was

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great too, but the best. And then I went and uh,

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I got an electric drum kit because the frequency of

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the synths and then the symbol crashes, it was just

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piercing and it was unreal. So but i'd have I

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think I played with three or four drummers over the years,

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and it's a long time, and they'd all be like,

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kind of am not sure and they come over and

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they play that electronic drum kit and they'd be like,

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this is amazing. I love this. Yeah, you'd be having

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so much fun with all the signs, but they'd have

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to play with a click, right, and they didn't mind

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that either, you know. So it was just a lot

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of fun. You know. It's more the enjoyment of getting

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together with other people and playing. You know, we never

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really had the opportunity to form much. We played you know,

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surrounding cities, but that was about it.

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Speaker 1: Do you feel like as you were doing that that

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the certain stigma because there are you know, even today,

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I mean it's gotten a lot better as as people

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continue to embrace technology and using technology and music. But

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I feel like even today, there's there's always going to

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be some people who just if you don't have everything

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completely live, if you've got someone on stage with something

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that is creating some sort of sound other than instruments,

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you know, you've got somebody up there with a laptop

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or whatever. There's there's always going to be certain people

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who are judgmental of that or using backing tracks or anything.

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But do you feel like over the course of your

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doing that, at least in the area where you were

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out playing live, that the you kind of overcame that.

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Speaker 2: Do you think, oh yeah, because well, and then when

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we started, we you know, we'd be playing with bands

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that were ten years younger because they were already embracing that. Ye.

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Some you know, and some of the stuff I love now,

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like a group called ASO or Keep Shelling Athens. They're

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a singer and a DJ, so it's not even like

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a musician. It's a DJ who has found samples and

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put them all together and that type of thing. But

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you know, I see where people are coming from with

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live music. I mean, last night I was at a

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Hofbra house, you know, with the oompampa, and you know,

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and I'm watching them and the guys playing the accordion

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and the other guys singing, and I'm like, what talent.

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He makes it look so easy. So you know, I

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get it, you know, with all live musicians, I mean,

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you know, that's that's incredible skill and dedication and it

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keeps showing up and practicing together, and so I get

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the stigma. And I also you know, if I could

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have all live musicians, I would, but you know, life

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gets in the.

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Speaker 1: Way, absolutely absolutely, you know, when one you're in a band.

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At somebody on the show, I wish I could remember

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who said it. Somebody on the show who had gone

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from being in a band to doing everything solo like

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like like you have done, essentially made the observation that

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being in a band with say you're in a band

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with three other people, it's like being in a relationship

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with three other people who are also in a relationship

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with three other people, and it's and that's challenging, and

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you've got to work with everyone's schedules and varying levels

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of commitment within that project, and it can be very

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very difficult. I mean, do you find is it less stressful?

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Because you've you have transitioned to doing this as a

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solo project. Is it Is it overall just less stressful

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doing it this way.

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Speaker 2: I used to there, Yes, okay, well, you know, as

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far as writing this stuff goes, you know, I always

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wrote everything and then people would learn how to play

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what I wrote through. For the first album, did have

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a bass player, but even he would come over and

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just jam with the song for four minutes, and then

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I'd have to go through what he played and cut

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out the you know, the snippets that I really like

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the best and put them in order. So as far

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as writing the stuff goes, it was always solo. But

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playing live it's just more enjoyable to play with other people.

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When you play live, you know, it's it's it's a

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lot better. But you know, I don't even know if

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I'm gonna bother because I for a year we had

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a singer and a guitarist and a drummer, and then

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the drummer couldn't make it because of work obligations and

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another band, and then you know, the singer got accepted

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into a music program, and you know, I just was

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I you know, it's okay, but it's a little stressful

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playing out. Maybe I'll just do, you know, do a

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studio thing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. The the thing with drummers too, because you

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mentioned drummers, it's kind of become well, almost a running joke.

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But it's not even a joke. Like every band we

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have on the show, the drummer in the band is

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always in like ten other bands. Yeah, and I feel

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like it's I feel like it's that way everywhere. I

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have a theory about that. I think it's because drummers

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are have become so rare because you know, when you're

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growing up and you first become interested in music and

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you want to learn a musical instrument. If you approach

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your parents and you say, I want to pick up

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an instrument, but I want to learn drums, you know,

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if it's that or I don't know, maybe the tuba,

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there's a good chance they're going to try to talk

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you out of it because they'd rather, you know, because

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nobody wants all that noise in their house, you know,

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unless they're just very very supportive. So that's that's my theory,

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because yeah, I agree, Yeah, every drummer I know is

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in ten bands. And can you tell tell us too

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about I had read something you said. You were talking

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about how the technology, about how it it both isolates

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us but also helps us to make personal connections.

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Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah, sometimes I forget I have little deep nuggets

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like that. Yeah. Well, I mean, so, you know, writing

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the song on my own, it, uh, it can be

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really lonely.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: I'd rather have this, you know, have someone else coming

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over and and working with them and you know, having

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you know, having a co writer, that would be great.

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You know, So that's lonely. But on the other hand,

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where I went to record this album, I wish I

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would have known about him soon, and I actually I did.

238
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A friend of mine kept urging me to go to

239
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This guy's name is Doug White, and he's got a

240
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studio called Watchman's Studio after the comic book. He had

241
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two shoegaze bands, one Macar's Pen and one called Tearwave

242
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and recorded a you know, that's like he really is

243
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Wheelhouse and he's so easy to work with. He's really

244
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reasonable to play with. And I can go in there

245
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with all my stems and you know, a raw idea

246
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and work with him for seven or eight hours and

247
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walk out with a song and recording. I'm really happy

248
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with Yeah, and that's you know, and you're bonding when

249
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you're hanging out together talking and playing and making stuff,

250
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so you know, or when we would have band practice

251
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on a Saturday morning, that was like the highlight of

252
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my week, just getting together with people I considered friends

253
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and you know, playing music and then going out and

254
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socializing and meeting other bands. So you know, your ice

255
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related kind of when you're writing, right, but you know,

256
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when you go to record or practice or play out,

257
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you get to socialize. So yeah, yeah, I think that's yeah.

258
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I mean, I don't think it could be much more

259
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than that. I guess.

260
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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting how and I think I think the

261
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pandemic kind of really brought this to the forefront for

262
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a lot of people because I always say, you know,

263
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that was a terrible experience for everybody, but it also

264
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we have to find these silver linings where we can.

265
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And one of the few silver linings about it was

266
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it kind of forced people to be creative in new ways,

267
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even though the technology was already there. You know, you

268
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could already send files back and forth through Dropbox or

269
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Google Drive or whatever, and you so you could you

270
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could already do all that collaborating with people from a distance,

271
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and people had been doing that, but I think the

272
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pandemic kind of forced people who maybe were averse to

273
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doing that to give it a try. And it created

274
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this entire new wave of collaboration amongst people who thought, well,

275
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this person's on the other side of the country, how

276
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am I ever going to collaborate with them? Oh, okay,

277
00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:07,399
well we'll give this a try. Oh turns out this

278
00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:11,519
works pretty well, And so I think it. You know,

279
00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:14,279
that was the most isolating thing that you know, we've

280
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been through, you know, was the pandemic, right, and yet

281
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and yet, because of technology, it also helped people make

282
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a lot of new connections in profound ways that allowed

283
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them to create together.

284
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Speaker 2: And my friend's son is I don't know, twenty one,

285
00:14:29,879 --> 00:14:32,240
and the majority of the bands he listens to are

286
00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:38,279
you know, kids in their twenties early twenties, and the

287
00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:40,200
bands are made up of seven people and none of

288
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them are in the same city.

289
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Speaker 1: Yep.

290
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Speaker 2: It's you know, it's not even a big deal. It's

291
00:14:45,799 --> 00:14:49,639
just like how it is, right, you know. So, yeah,

292
00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:52,639
you know, that was the good part about the pandemic.

293
00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:55,840
It's interesting though, when that was finally done and we

294
00:14:55,879 --> 00:14:59,039
could go back to works. I remember somebody said, oh,

295
00:14:59,039 --> 00:15:01,039
we might have to wear mask again. And when I

296
00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:05,320
heard that, I realized how I didn't realize during the

297
00:15:05,399 --> 00:15:08,679
pandemic how much of a strain it was putting on me.

298
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It wasn't until afterwards and someone saying something that we

299
00:15:12,639 --> 00:15:15,799
might have to go back to you know, some of

300
00:15:15,799 --> 00:15:17,759
the ways we were like we thought there was going

301
00:15:17,799 --> 00:15:19,639
to be another wave, and I was just like, oh

302
00:15:19,679 --> 00:15:22,320
my god, I hated that. Yeah awful.

303
00:15:22,519 --> 00:15:25,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, there were a lot of moments like that where

304
00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:28,159
it was like, oh, oh, maybe this is finally winding down,

305
00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:31,120
and maybe oh no, no it's not.

306
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Speaker 2: Did you get it? I got it? I got I

307
00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:37,399
was like four or six weeks, I can't remember, you know,

308
00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:39,799
it was really at the first wave. Yeah, it was

309
00:15:39,879 --> 00:15:41,360
just it was awful.

310
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Speaker 1: I had COVID, but not until I didn't get it

311
00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:47,279
until after the pandemic was kind of over, you know,

312
00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:49,559
and I was I was vaxed and everything, but I did.

313
00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:52,799
I did test positive at least on one occasion. I

314
00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:57,039
think eventually, eventually I dodged it for a long time though.

315
00:15:57,519 --> 00:16:01,679
Speaker 2: Good but uh, you weakened or something, so I know,

316
00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:03,360
I wouldn't worst it on anybody.

317
00:16:03,559 --> 00:16:06,559
Speaker 1: No, No, it's it's not well being being sick just

318
00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:09,480
generally is uh, it's my my least favorite thing about winter.

319
00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:15,399
But now, so how is how is your live situation now?

320
00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:18,960
Like are you are you performing live currently? Are you

321
00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:20,039
going out and playing show? No?

322
00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:23,519
Speaker 2: You know, like I said, it was a year we

323
00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:27,080
and I think we might have even gotten more viewership.

324
00:16:27,159 --> 00:16:30,200
But we at band practice, we would get stuff done

325
00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:33,480
and then we would play something on Facebook. You know,

326
00:16:33,559 --> 00:16:37,240
we would actually you know, play the second half of

327
00:16:37,279 --> 00:16:41,000
band practice on Facebook and a number of views and

328
00:16:41,039 --> 00:16:43,399
the number of people who saw it. I started thinking,

329
00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:48,919
maybe this is better than out. But no, yeah, right now,

330
00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:52,240
like I said, I don't know if I really And

331
00:16:52,039 --> 00:16:55,080
that's the other problem too, Like you know, I can sing,

332
00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:58,200
but when I when it comes to playing live, I

333
00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:01,639
don't know. It's just I'm not impressed with what I

334
00:17:01,679 --> 00:17:03,960
hear when I when I play live. So I was,

335
00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:07,200
you know, I needn't have to practice these songs, you

336
00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:12,440
know a lot, you know, and I mean, you know,

337
00:17:12,799 --> 00:17:16,119
I I take voice lessons, you know, just to keep

338
00:17:16,319 --> 00:17:19,119
working on my voice. I'm not a you know, we

339
00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:22,119
probably can tell, but I'm not a natural singer, you know,

340
00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:25,519
it's more of that kind of guy from the church

341
00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:26,279
type of.

342
00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:29,160
Speaker 1: Feel ye.

343
00:17:29,599 --> 00:17:32,480
Speaker 2: So, but yeah, but losing the singer we had, and

344
00:17:32,519 --> 00:17:35,480
she was amazing, she was great. You know, if you

345
00:17:35,519 --> 00:17:39,240
want to find a singer, go to your local alternative

346
00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:42,119
karaoke because you'll find a lot of people are dying

347
00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:43,119
to find bands there.

348
00:17:43,279 --> 00:17:43,759
Speaker 1: Interesting.

349
00:17:43,839 --> 00:17:49,519
Speaker 2: And yeah, and but she, you know, we hadn't played

350
00:17:49,519 --> 00:17:57,759
out and she was starting a music program, and I

351
00:17:58,440 --> 00:17:59,960
just don't know if I really want to search for

352
00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:02,839
another band again. You know, I think I'd like to

353
00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:05,400
just focus on playing music and maybe even go more

354
00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:09,119
towards the piano. I don't know if you read that,

355
00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:11,920
but there's a guy named Harold Budd. He did an

356
00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:15,240
album with The Cocktail Twins and then he's done at

357
00:18:15,319 --> 00:18:18,359
least two or three albums with Robin Guthrie. But he's

358
00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:21,119
the guy that got me into playing piano in my

359
00:18:21,279 --> 00:18:25,160
early twenties. And yeah, we lost him to COVID, but

360
00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:30,119
he put out an album with well, he put out

361
00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:31,880
a lot of albums, but he put out an album

362
00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:38,920
with Brian Eno and the Pearl. It's called and it's

363
00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:42,319
just amazing, and it's gorgeous, and for the longest time

364
00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:44,000
I couldn't figure out what he was doing, and then

365
00:18:44,039 --> 00:18:46,680
I figured out he pretty much just played major seventh

366
00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:50,000
chords every quote he played. And that's what Robin Guthrie

367
00:18:50,079 --> 00:18:53,200
does for any of your listeners that are into music

368
00:18:53,279 --> 00:19:00,720
theory and yeah, and so there's like, I think one,

369
00:19:00,839 --> 00:19:03,799
there's not two. I think there's at least one piano

370
00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:07,039
interlude on Yeah, there's one before the last three songs

371
00:19:07,039 --> 00:19:10,759
on the CD on the new album, and just kind

372
00:19:10,759 --> 00:19:14,240
of going down more that vain. Yeah. You know, I

373
00:19:14,279 --> 00:19:15,960
don't know if you know like Stars of the Lid

374
00:19:16,039 --> 00:19:17,480
or the Cranky Label at all.

375
00:19:17,799 --> 00:19:20,599
Speaker 1: No, it's kind of.

376
00:19:20,519 --> 00:19:29,119
Speaker 2: It's atmosphere ambient, but it's not, you know, yoga ambient.

377
00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:31,440
It's got just a little bit of a twist to

378
00:19:31,519 --> 00:19:32,599
it when you listen.

379
00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:34,359
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, but.

380
00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:36,079
Speaker 2: I'm really rambling. I didn't really, I'm tired.

381
00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:39,000
Speaker 1: I was, Hey, No, that's okay, that's what we do here,

382
00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:43,240
that's what we do. That's that's perfect. I'd much rather that.

383
00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:44,480
Speaker 2: No.

384
00:19:44,559 --> 00:19:46,400
Speaker 1: The worst thing is when someone comes on and they

385
00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:49,160
have nothing to say, which is rarest. Most musicians like

386
00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:50,920
to talk about music, but every once in a while.

387
00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:52,759
You know, we might have somebody who kind of clams

388
00:19:52,799 --> 00:19:53,759
up and it's like, uh.

389
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:58,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I feel for that person.

390
00:20:00,519 --> 00:20:02,279
Speaker 1: Can you tell us you about some of the themes?

391
00:20:02,319 --> 00:20:04,279
I mean, like I said, you know, the music, it's

392
00:20:04,319 --> 00:20:06,559
got a very you know, it's got kind of a dreamy,

393
00:20:06,599 --> 00:20:09,440
atmospheric sort of vibe to it. But I mean, what

394
00:20:09,759 --> 00:20:13,319
are some of the themes that you like to write about?

395
00:20:14,599 --> 00:20:18,640
Speaker 2: Well, this one, you know before, you know, when when

396
00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:23,279
I had a female singer, like I like to have,

397
00:20:25,319 --> 00:20:28,880
you know, empowered lyrics, something that was strong, something like

398
00:20:29,319 --> 00:20:33,440
you know, where someone was coming back from being the

399
00:20:33,559 --> 00:20:36,759
underdog or something like that. Yeah, And with this one,

400
00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:40,119
I just wanted there to be kind of like a

401
00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:46,359
hopeful message, you know. And but a lot of times,

402
00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:50,160
you know, and I wonder if this is true for most,

403
00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:52,759
you know, singers, I would like kind of add lib

404
00:20:52,839 --> 00:20:55,799
lyrics and then as I sang them and looked at

405
00:20:55,839 --> 00:20:59,079
them and then you know, redid them. Like you know,

406
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:02,240
moments in the everybody has moments in the sun. It's

407
00:21:02,279 --> 00:21:05,119
just like, you know, even if things are tough, you know,

408
00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:07,640
you'll have good days, you know. I mean, it's not

409
00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:13,759
that complex of an idea. Where or Bring Love, Bring

410
00:21:13,799 --> 00:21:16,519
Loves a breakup song, but it's a song about accepting

411
00:21:16,599 --> 00:21:20,440
that that breakup, but you know it, don't really realize

412
00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:25,000
it until you're done kind of improvising lyrics two or

413
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:27,720
three times. You know. That's the great thing about having

414
00:21:27,759 --> 00:21:30,920
home recording studios. You know, you've got that freedom to

415
00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:32,480
do that, and then you look at what you've come

416
00:21:32,559 --> 00:21:35,039
up with and you're like, oh, there's there's kind of

417
00:21:35,079 --> 00:21:37,519
a good idea here, or you know, come up with

418
00:21:37,559 --> 00:21:41,720
a story. We're an atmosphere of just you know, uh,

419
00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:47,039
you know, I really liked a lot of trip hop stuff,

420
00:21:47,079 --> 00:21:50,440
so just having something being kind of a little dark,

421
00:21:51,079 --> 00:21:55,799
you know, but yeah, but not like in the end

422
00:21:55,839 --> 00:21:57,519
of the world kind of way, but kind of like

423
00:21:57,559 --> 00:22:04,519
you know, like you know, a dark movie, like what's

424
00:22:04,559 --> 00:22:07,480
that Black Mirror something like that.

425
00:22:07,599 --> 00:22:11,079
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I haven't seen that, but I it comes

426
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:13,799
up in conversation though with people. So I people have

427
00:22:13,799 --> 00:22:14,799
told me I would enjoy it.

428
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, you go back to I wouldn't. I'd skipped the

429
00:22:18,759 --> 00:22:21,119
very very first episode, but I go back to the

430
00:22:22,039 --> 00:22:24,720
British show first and check it out.

431
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:25,759
Speaker 1: Yeah.

432
00:22:25,839 --> 00:22:29,440
Speaker 2: So yeah, So either something that's kind of a dark

433
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:33,119
twist a little halloween ish or something that's got a

434
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:36,359
you know, a hopeful message on one or the other. Yeah,

435
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:40,400
generally seems what comes out, you know, things will be okay.

436
00:22:41,279 --> 00:22:45,359
Speaker 1: I'm also curious too about So your newest is an EP,

437
00:22:46,519 --> 00:22:49,079
but why so Moments in the Sun is an EP.

438
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:52,799
But Tiger, the previous release was, was a full album correct.

439
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:58,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, And here's why this ended up happening. And I

440
00:22:58,599 --> 00:23:04,160
hope you know this doesn't sound bad, but something got

441
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:08,680
messed up on the last three songs of Tiger where

442
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:13,920
they're all they're named wrong. The three songs are like,

443
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:19,279
Moments in the Sun is Winter Streets and Winter Streets

444
00:23:19,319 --> 00:23:23,519
is Army of Me. So I put the EP out

445
00:23:23,759 --> 00:23:27,160
with you know, an extra new song, and then just

446
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:32,759
to get the right names on the songs because because

447
00:23:32,799 --> 00:23:36,000
I know this is going to sound horrible. But if

448
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:39,079
I take Tiger down and then put it back up again, yeah,

449
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:43,160
well you lose all the streams. If you lose all

450
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:47,039
the streams, then you're starting from scratch and your music

451
00:23:47,079 --> 00:23:52,920
doesn't get placed in you know, Spotify Radio or Apple

452
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:58,599
Music Suggestions and that type of thing. So you know,

453
00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:02,759
you just it's just how the algorithm works. You know,

454
00:24:02,839 --> 00:24:06,640
you're kind of like going back to zero. So that

455
00:24:07,279 --> 00:24:10,880
is why it was done, was to try to get

456
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:16,240
the right names on the songs. And yeah, so it's

457
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:22,759
not the best reason to put out an EP I know.

458
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,240
Speaker 1: No, but it well, but it does, you know, it

459
00:24:25,279 --> 00:24:28,279
is illustrative of of some of the pitfalls of you know,

460
00:24:28,319 --> 00:24:30,359
the technology that we're working with and how it works

461
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:33,519
now with with streaming and everything. You know, it's there's

462
00:24:33,519 --> 00:24:35,799
all there's a lot that can go wrong, and you know,

463
00:24:35,839 --> 00:24:38,200
a lot of musicians and industry people listen to the show.

464
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,039
So it's it's kind of a good lesson, you know,

465
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,880
something to be aware of. And you're right, I mean,

466
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,079
you know, practically speaking, yeah, you you know, you could,

467
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:47,640
you could take it down and then put it back

468
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:50,480
up with but then, yeah, like you said, you you

469
00:24:50,559 --> 00:24:54,279
lose you know, you don't want to lose whatever momentum

470
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:56,720
you've you've built, whatever equity you've built in that with

471
00:24:56,759 --> 00:24:57,799
the algorithms, you know.

472
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:00,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you know, you know that long tail theory.

473
00:25:00,599 --> 00:25:04,359
You know, just you know, you keep getting you know,

474
00:25:04,839 --> 00:25:09,359
because you know, I'm not gonna make any money off this,

475
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:11,400
and I'm not going to be famous. The goal is

476
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:14,599
I I when I was a kid, when I was

477
00:25:14,599 --> 00:25:17,720
like twelve, I discovered Echo and the Bunny Man and

478
00:25:17,759 --> 00:25:21,200
I was able to, you know, get a CD or

479
00:25:21,319 --> 00:25:24,640
an album once a month, and I was, you know,

480
00:25:24,799 --> 00:25:27,359
no Internet, and I thought they were the coolest band.

481
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:29,920
I didn't realize there was a whole genre called goth

482
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:31,720
where there was other stuff like them. And I got

483
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:36,160
the Heaven up Here album and I remember as a kid,

484
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:40,039
my whole motivation to make music was that I just

485
00:25:40,079 --> 00:25:44,119
want to make something that fits like a niche, you know,

486
00:25:44,319 --> 00:25:47,640
in someone's record collection. Yeah, you know, like you know,

487
00:25:47,759 --> 00:25:52,440
and just make something. You know, anytime I get a

488
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:56,000
new follower on YouTube or someone picks up the music

489
00:25:56,039 --> 00:25:59,480
on dan Camp, I am just thrilled that I made

490
00:25:59,519 --> 00:26:04,960
something that someone liked enough to spend their time listening to.

491
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,880
You know, I'm like, oh, I'm giving, you know, paying

492
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:12,720
forward what these bands that at the time were obscure.

493
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,119
You know, I know from Danny Derko and everything that

494
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,519
you know more, everybody you know knows who the bunny

495
00:26:18,559 --> 00:26:21,240
Men are now, but back then, no one you know,

496
00:26:21,799 --> 00:26:25,400
had a clue that they were. So I don't know

497
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:27,640
if that makes sense. I feel like I'm kind of rambling,

498
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:31,519
but you know that that's the goal is do it

499
00:26:31,519 --> 00:26:34,039
for myself because I love it. And then I just

500
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:36,960
really hope someone out there enjoys it.

501
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, very well said, yeah, absolutely, that's what

502
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:45,200
it's all about. And then so in a moment, well,

503
00:26:45,839 --> 00:26:47,640
it's been wonderful speaking with you this morning.

504
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:49,359
Speaker 2: We'll thank you so much for having me on.

505
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 1: Well, definitely have you back in the future. I do

506
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:53,640
want to. And in a moment, we'll play, uh, we'll

507
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:57,680
play this track never had a Heart from Tiger, but

508
00:26:58,279 --> 00:27:02,039
from the Tiger album. But where should Where's the best

509
00:27:02,039 --> 00:27:03,880
place to go Richard for people to keep up with

510
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:06,680
everything that you're doing, with everything all things Dots and Moon.

511
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:07,559
Where should people go?

512
00:27:09,279 --> 00:27:13,680
Speaker 2: Probably between band camp and I know it's not the

513
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,960
most popular place, but the Dots and Moon page on Facebook,

514
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:22,759
it's probably the best place to follow and keep track

515
00:27:22,799 --> 00:27:25,799
of stuff coming out, so you know, singles.

516
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:27,519
Speaker 1: In that Okay, okay, wonderful.

517
00:27:27,519 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, because I have a website, but it'll

518
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,599
just send you to those places Instagram or you know,

519
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:34,119
or social media.

520
00:27:33,839 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 1: Sites, gotcha, gotcha? Yeah, speaking of algorithms and all that.

521
00:27:38,319 --> 00:27:41,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then band Camp because you know, I try

522
00:27:41,759 --> 00:27:43,839
not to send much out, but you know, if you're

523
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,799
a follower on band camp, then I can send a

524
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:50,240
message out, you know, all the followers saying, oh, there's

525
00:27:50,279 --> 00:27:52,680
a new EP out or there's a new video out.

526
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, absolutely, what wonderful, wonderful. And then so we're

527
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,119
going to end the segment with I Never had a

528
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:02,319
Heart from your your previous release Tiger, And this is

529
00:28:02,319 --> 00:28:04,880
one of the ones that you had mentioned when you

530
00:28:05,079 --> 00:28:07,279
when you email Jenny, what what a special like? What

531
00:28:07,279 --> 00:28:09,759
should we know about this song? Why? Why is this

532
00:28:09,799 --> 00:28:10,759
one of the ones you chose?

533
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,000
Speaker 2: Well? I like because it's really upbeat, you know, yeah,

534
00:28:14,319 --> 00:28:18,799
moves along. But also it's not negative like the title

535
00:28:18,799 --> 00:28:21,640
would you'd think it's actually goes you know, heaven never

536
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:25,880
hit a heart like yours. And it's just someone is

537
00:28:26,039 --> 00:28:31,480
just so amazing that even you know, uh, the image

538
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,839
of having like pales in comparison to someone who's just

539
00:28:35,519 --> 00:28:37,079
a great person to be around.

540
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:39,519
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, it's a great concept. I love it. I

541
00:28:39,599 --> 00:28:41,440
love it all right, So we're gonna play that in

542
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,039
a moment. We'll let you go. But Richard from Dots

543
00:28:44,039 --> 00:28:45,279
and Moon, thank you so much.

544
00:28:45,559 --> 00:28:47,279
Speaker 2: Like I said to you, I really appreciate it.

545
00:28:47,359 --> 00:28:49,519
Speaker 1: Absolutely well. We'll have you back when when you've got

546
00:28:49,519 --> 00:28:51,240
some new stuff. We'll definitely have you back on love,

547
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,599
love what you're doing. Keep up the great work, and uh,

548
00:28:54,599 --> 00:28:59,839
good luck with whatever weather you're experiencing right in that

549
00:29:00,079 --> 00:29:00,799
part of New York.

550
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:04,839
Speaker 2: Alright, all right, we'll take care and thank you for

551
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:06,079
having me on. I appreciate it.

552
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 1: You got it. We'll talk to you soon. Take care, bye,

553
00:29:08,039 --> 00:29:08,759
bye bye.

554
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:09,599
Speaker 2: All right.

555
00:29:09,599 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 1: That is Richard from Dots and Moon. I do love

556
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:14,599
this project so much, and we're gonna play this. This

557
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:18,079
is from the previous release Tiger Now. This is called

558
00:29:18,279 --> 00:29:19,000
Never Had a Heart