1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:00,360
Speaker 1: White.

2
00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:04,240
Speaker 2: Choose a Volkswagen service for your Volkswagen commercial vehicle the

3
00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:08,400
same reason people hire Cattle the builder, or Gary the painter,

4
00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:12,519
or Shame the electrician. Because our technicians know how to

5
00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:16,399
meet your vehicle's needs like you meet those of your customers.

6
00:00:16,679 --> 00:00:20,079
And we only use one hundred percent genuine parts with

7
00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:23,199
a two year warranty, so you know you're getting the best,

8
00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:27,480
just like your clients. Book your Volkswagen Commercial Vehicle service

9
00:00:27,519 --> 00:00:29,879
today at Volkswagenservice dot Ie.

10
00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:32,560
Speaker 3: Us pigeon.

11
00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:36,920
Speaker 1: See everything when we're flapping around up here, well almost everything.

12
00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:41,799
Speaker 4: See Burning Certain fumes releases invisible toxic pollutants which can

13
00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:44,359
trigger asthma and lead to serious illness.

14
00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:46,960
Speaker 3: So if you're going to light a fire in your home,

15
00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:47,960
make sure to.

16
00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:52,240
Speaker 1: Use low smoke fuel. Oh and never wing at burning rubbish.

17
00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:54,759
Choosing low smoke fuel is better for all of us.

18
00:00:55,159 --> 00:00:57,520
Let's clear the air for everyone, and remember.

19
00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:00,000
Speaker 3: To clean chimneys and heating appliances at least once a year.

20
00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:01,359
Speaker 1: Brought to you by the Government of.

21
00:01:01,359 --> 00:01:07,040
Speaker 5: Ardens, meaning a live man like this man letting butterfly,

22
00:01:07,159 --> 00:01:07,640
flapping his.

23
00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:09,519
Speaker 1: Wing dig down in a forest, man.

24
00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:12,519
Speaker 5: It gonna cause a tree fall letting five thousand miles away.

25
00:01:12,599 --> 00:01:20,239
Speaker 1: Man, nobody see it. Nobody see you don't need no

26
00:01:20,519 --> 00:01:25,480
man like you, and you got backed for FLA. That's

27
00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:29,680
wain Man. Don't black a dang on the panel? Mann matter? Man?

28
00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:39,640
Speaker 5: All right, you're a stridam Welcome to the show. How

29
00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:40,040
are you doing?

30
00:01:40,079 --> 00:01:43,239
Speaker 4: Man, I'm doing fantastic. Thanks for the opportunity and I'm

31
00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:44,920
looking forward to have a good conversation with you.

32
00:01:46,159 --> 00:01:46,439
Speaker 1: Thank you.

33
00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:51,280
Speaker 5: I'm likewise I always enjoy talking to you South Africans. Uh,

34
00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:55,480
you were even among your countrymen, particularly impressive. You can

35
00:01:55,599 --> 00:01:59,439
highly recommend it. So if you could describe who are

36
00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:00,319
you and what do you do?

37
00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:05,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, So if there are some of your some of

38
00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:07,480
your viewers who haven't heard of the community of Urania.

39
00:02:07,519 --> 00:02:10,759
I think South Africa has been in the limelight in

40
00:02:10,879 --> 00:02:14,960
the past few years, especially with the American interest growing

41
00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:20,039
into South Africa South Africans again Africans specifically, But the

42
00:02:20,159 --> 00:02:23,000
truth is that the challenges that we are facing today

43
00:02:23,039 --> 00:02:27,240
in South Africa is not something that is all that new.

44
00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:28,120
Speaker 1: It's something that.

45
00:02:30,199 --> 00:02:35,759
Speaker 4: Anyone who were willing and able to try and look

46
00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:38,639
into the future and try to predict certain things could

47
00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:42,159
see quite a few years back to an extent that

48
00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:48,080
the founders of this project is community. Okay, so Urania

49
00:02:48,199 --> 00:02:51,639
is a very specific community, and that is a community

50
00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:56,960
that already in the nineteen eighties started in terms of

51
00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:01,680
ideological context, and it was people who said they see

52
00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:04,479
that change is coming, and that change is going to

53
00:03:04,599 --> 00:03:09,960
be possibly catastrophic for Africaners as a group, as a nation,

54
00:03:10,039 --> 00:03:12,960
as a people what we call in Africans a folk

55
00:03:13,479 --> 00:03:16,800
to survive and in order to survive what is coming,

56
00:03:17,719 --> 00:03:20,319
it is not enough to just be pragmatic. You need

57
00:03:20,479 --> 00:03:24,319
to establish something lasting. You need to actually go out

58
00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:29,360
and do some triage and establish something before the worst happens.

59
00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:32,520
And there is a set of let's say, rules that

60
00:03:32,599 --> 00:03:35,400
they created in terms of what is necessary for us

61
00:03:35,439 --> 00:03:36,400
as a people to survive.

62
00:03:37,439 --> 00:03:38,680
Speaker 1: And that is what the effort is.

63
00:03:38,759 --> 00:03:43,400
Speaker 4: It is an effort of the both the survivability of

64
00:03:43,439 --> 00:03:46,360
a people as well as the freedom of a people.

65
00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:53,599
And our argument broadly could be described as what must

66
00:03:53,719 --> 00:03:57,879
we change about ourselves, what must be sacrificed, what must

67
00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:04,639
we sit as non negotiable rules for the next generations

68
00:04:04,639 --> 00:04:05,120
to thrive.

69
00:04:06,439 --> 00:04:07,680
Speaker 1: So in the.

70
00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:11,919
Speaker 4: Nineteen eighties, already before a major political change happened in

71
00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:14,120
South Africa. These people said, Okay, what we need to

72
00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:16,759
do is if we want to survive, there's only one way,

73
00:04:17,319 --> 00:04:19,720
and that is to be a demographic majority in an area.

74
00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:23,360
If that is the conclusion, then there are certain requirements,

75
00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:27,639
most important probably being the idea of owned labor. And

76
00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:30,639
I think we can maybe discuss that in length later

77
00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:36,000
in this conversation, because that is the most cardinal policy

78
00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:39,639
of Urania. That is the most necessary thing in terms

79
00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:42,360
of Urania's survival and we as a people survival.

80
00:04:42,439 --> 00:04:44,720
Speaker 1: So we said, we need our own piece of land.

81
00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:48,000
Speaker 4: On that we must build own institutions, and that must

82
00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:49,560
all be done with our own labor.

83
00:04:50,439 --> 00:04:51,519
Speaker 1: And that is the way forward.

84
00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:57,480
Speaker 4: Urania has been established ideologically in nineteen eighty eight, physically

85
00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:01,639
in nineteen ninety one when land was purchased, and ever

86
00:05:01,759 --> 00:05:06,279
since then that the big and daunting task of actually

87
00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:15,079
bowling institutions, erecting infrastructure and and and continuing a life. Yeah,

88
00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:18,160
in this part of the country. It's been a very

89
00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:18,959
interesting journey.

90
00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:24,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, so several things there. Uh One, you know, you

91
00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:28,399
describe the sort of forward looking nature of it, right,

92
00:05:28,439 --> 00:05:32,079
the idea that this that there was this negative event

93
00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:36,360
coming over the horizon. Uh, I have your countryman on

94
00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:40,519
quite regularly, but just for the sake of the argument,

95
00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:42,680
was that prediction correct?

96
00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:43,279
Speaker 1: Right?

97
00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:46,040
Speaker 5: What did you know the people who founded this sea coming?

98
00:05:46,639 --> 00:05:50,399
And what is life like in the rest of South Africa.

99
00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:52,439
I understand that a lot of the coverage is over

100
00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:55,800
the top, you know, particularly from shall we say, you

101
00:05:55,879 --> 00:05:58,199
know American and Canadian influencers. I'll leave it at that,

102
00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:01,160
but we're they correct in that gas.

103
00:06:03,079 --> 00:06:06,040
Speaker 4: I think there are a few arguments to be made,

104
00:06:07,439 --> 00:06:12,439
but in general for the African people, there's two specific

105
00:06:12,519 --> 00:06:19,439
things to look at. One is uh standard of living, safety,

106
00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:25,480
security and so on, which declined general public services, ability

107
00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:31,319
to integrate into the general public life, which which happened

108
00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:36,279
to now be a dangerous inserviceable and many things that

109
00:06:36,439 --> 00:06:39,480
I think your your your viewers possibly can't can't even

110
00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:43,160
comprehend that, the lack of service delivery, thrash piling up

111
00:06:43,199 --> 00:06:46,920
in the streets, rolling blackouts, you know, many negative things.

112
00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:50,600
But but even that is not the main factor for me,

113
00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:53,560
and it's not the main factor for can I say

114
00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:55,720
the true believers of Grana, the people who believe in

115
00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:58,639
this idea and the solution. The true thing, The true

116
00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:02,240
issue is a loss of freedom. The loss of freedom

117
00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:06,839
and the loss of the ability to craft your own

118
00:07:06,879 --> 00:07:09,920
future that goes with it. It is bad to live

119
00:07:09,959 --> 00:07:11,639
in dire economic circumstances.

120
00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:12,240
Speaker 1: It's dire.

121
00:07:12,839 --> 00:07:16,120
Speaker 4: It's bad to have opportunities taken away from you. It

122
00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:20,000
is bad to have the risk of being murdered or

123
00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:23,000
being raped or being robbed constantly. And it is bad

124
00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:26,600
when the streets of South Africa are overflowing with sewage

125
00:07:27,079 --> 00:07:30,439
and things like that. Obviously, they are still some islands

126
00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:32,600
of excellence and we can also speak about that maybe,

127
00:07:33,199 --> 00:07:37,279
but in general there's a lot of decline, specifically in

128
00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:40,959
regards to infrastructure. What is worse than all those things,

129
00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:45,959
Arguably one of the worst fates they could possibly be,

130
00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:48,879
is to not be in control of your own future,

131
00:07:49,519 --> 00:07:53,560
not having the opportunity to take the responsibility to be

132
00:07:54,360 --> 00:08:01,399
in a certain extent, to be someone sitting on the bench,

133
00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:06,199
not participating, to be just someone in the crowd looking

134
00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:10,199
as other players play out the game. That is your

135
00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:12,120
future and the future of your children and the future

136
00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:14,600
of your people. That is a worse fate than just

137
00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:20,079
having bad civil delivery or insecure environment and that is

138
00:08:20,199 --> 00:08:23,720
to somewhat our collective fate. It's not necessarily our individual

139
00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:28,639
faith right. So individually South Africans Africanas still have opportunities

140
00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:33,480
in the country. I don't deny that. I also think

141
00:08:33,519 --> 00:08:36,600
that they still have international opportunities. Many of them immigrate

142
00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:39,759
and they go seek on an individual basis, they go

143
00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:44,080
and seek better time. On the individual basis, they go

144
00:08:44,279 --> 00:08:47,799
and they say, listen, eighteen murders per day in a

145
00:08:47,879 --> 00:08:48,960
country is just not normal.

146
00:08:49,039 --> 00:08:50,120
Speaker 1: We need to get out of here.

147
00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:52,600
Speaker 4: Far murders and the brutality that goes with it's not normal.

148
00:08:52,639 --> 00:08:55,240
We need to get out of here. The fact that

149
00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:58,120
there's one hundred and forty plus laws based on race

150
00:08:58,759 --> 00:08:59,120
is bad.

151
00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:00,360
Speaker 1: I need to get out of here.

152
00:09:00,519 --> 00:09:03,440
Speaker 4: All. The fact that in the heights of load sheading,

153
00:09:03,519 --> 00:09:06,360
which is somewhat better now, but in the heights of

154
00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:09,240
load cheating we had up to twelve hours without electricity

155
00:09:09,279 --> 00:09:12,000
a day is so bad that I would rather go

156
00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:16,799
to Australia, Canada, America, Britain wherever. That is an individual choice,

157
00:09:16,799 --> 00:09:18,639
and it's good and people should have their choice, as

158
00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:21,519
they should have the choice to now take up the

159
00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:25,440
American President Donald Trump's offer to immigrate to the United

160
00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:26,440
States as refugees.

161
00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:30,799
Speaker 1: They should have those options. Those are individual options.

162
00:09:31,279 --> 00:09:35,799
Speaker 4: Those are choices that individual or an individual family or

163
00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:38,399
an individual couple can make and they can go look

164
00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:39,159
for a very future.

165
00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:44,759
Speaker 1: If that if individualism was all there is to life.

166
00:09:45,799 --> 00:09:49,879
Speaker 4: These sample opportunities in Southern Africa, South Africa and its neighboring.

167
00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:54,559
Speaker 1: Countries, as well as there is of the world, especially

168
00:09:54,639 --> 00:09:57,519
the West. But that is not what we are looking for.

169
00:09:57,720 --> 00:09:59,519
Speaker 4: That is not what we want, it's not what we

170
00:10:00,159 --> 00:10:01,960
dream of, and it's not what we want to achieve

171
00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:04,759
in South Africa. Is it's possible to buy yourself quite

172
00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:09,919
a luxurious lifestyle, even even to some extent a safe lifestyle,

173
00:10:10,039 --> 00:10:12,840
by privatizing service delivery and paying on top of your

174
00:10:12,879 --> 00:10:15,919
taxes just much more, to privatize your security, to privatize

175
00:10:15,919 --> 00:10:18,480
your water, to privatize your electricity and so on, and

176
00:10:18,639 --> 00:10:21,759
just live behind big walls and go out to certain

177
00:10:21,799 --> 00:10:24,559
areas and still have a good and luxurious life.

178
00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:25,240
Speaker 1: It is possible.

179
00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:29,159
Speaker 4: Those are individual solutions, as is refugee status in the

180
00:10:29,279 --> 00:10:34,000
US or immigration to the anglosphere in general. What we

181
00:10:34,159 --> 00:10:36,720
are looking and it's one of the things that people

182
00:10:36,879 --> 00:10:39,960
misunderstand about Tournia. That's not what we are looking for.

183
00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:43,600
We want a public life. We want our language to

184
00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:46,159
flourish in a collective scenes. We want our people to

185
00:10:46,279 --> 00:10:50,080
flourish in terms of their religion, in terms of their values,

186
00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:53,200
in terms of what they believe in a collective scenes,

187
00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:56,159
not only in individual scenes. There must be public spaces

188
00:10:56,519 --> 00:10:59,480
that are African or Christian spaces. If you don't have that,

189
00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:04,480
you just have an individual, privatized future for yourself. And

190
00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:08,039
it's not necessarily selfish. It can be selfish, but that's

191
00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:11,440
not our end goal. We want to make an area

192
00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:14,559
that is free, that is that is that is Africana

193
00:11:14,639 --> 00:11:17,039
and that is Christian and that we can live and

194
00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:20,720
thrive on. If there is no public schools where your

195
00:11:20,799 --> 00:11:23,120
language and your religion has been put first, if there

196
00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:26,080
are no public spaces where your children can plain their

197
00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:30,240
own languages, if there are no higher education, university level education,

198
00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:32,840
and public churches where.

199
00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:34,360
Speaker 1: Those things can thrive, then you.

200
00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:37,639
Speaker 4: Might have an individualized future, but you don't have a

201
00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:40,840
future for people. And that is the key, in my opinion,

202
00:11:41,159 --> 00:11:43,879
for the success of for Ania and what we want

203
00:11:43,919 --> 00:11:45,120
to do and what we want to achieve.

204
00:11:45,879 --> 00:11:50,399
Speaker 5: You mentioned the immigration, and you know, as an American,

205
00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:54,519
I am of two minds about it. One, we have

206
00:11:54,639 --> 00:11:57,039
quite a lot of immigration to my country, and if

207
00:11:57,240 --> 00:11:59,759
you know, more of them were people like you and yours.

208
00:12:00,279 --> 00:12:03,120
Quite happy about that, right, given the you know, given

209
00:12:03,159 --> 00:12:05,240
the system as it is. But at the same time,

210
00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:10,879
I see that being sort of a path to cultural annihilation.

211
00:12:11,639 --> 00:12:11,759
Speaker 1: Right.

212
00:12:11,879 --> 00:12:15,559
Speaker 5: You have people who move out of a community based

213
00:12:15,639 --> 00:12:18,639
off of that you know, common ancestry, that language, that culture.

214
00:12:19,399 --> 00:12:22,919
And okay, sure there may be a neighborhood that's you know,

215
00:12:23,039 --> 00:12:26,799
forty fifty seventy percent South African, but the schools those

216
00:12:26,879 --> 00:12:30,720
children will go to will be Westernized for good or frail.

217
00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:33,840
You know, they will be Americans, they will be Brits,

218
00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:37,200
they will be Australians in a generation or two. And

219
00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:41,559
so I understand that that is an individually rational decision, right,

220
00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:44,720
you might well live better in Melbourne than you could

221
00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:50,000
and you know some city in South Africa, and so

222
00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:53,120
individually that makes a great deal of sense. But when

223
00:12:53,159 --> 00:12:56,840
we look at this collectively, right, you you know, whoever

224
00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:00,279
this is as a like a bearer of culture, someone

225
00:13:00,279 --> 00:13:02,440
who is part of something bigger than themselves.

226
00:13:03,399 --> 00:13:07,639
Speaker 3: It's a feeling, fixing you to the road, filling every sense,

227
00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:12,720
the bold dynamic lines you can't ignore, and smarter technology

228
00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:17,559
that guides and connects you. Cooper Layon powered by petrol

229
00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:23,039
diesel or next gen plug in hybrid pure driving Exhilaration.

230
00:13:23,799 --> 00:13:27,559
Explore our latest offers, including the Coopra five year warranty

231
00:13:27,759 --> 00:13:31,919
at Coopraofficial dot Ie Coopra design.

232
00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:37,279
Speaker 5: That moves many of those individual rational decisions, well, they

233
00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:40,159
don't look so rational anymore. And this is something I

234
00:13:40,279 --> 00:13:44,440
think that many Westerners, particularly Western angles, have a hard

235
00:13:44,519 --> 00:13:47,480
time with this idea of viewing themselves as a part

236
00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:52,440
of a collective. Obviously, this is not necessarily what I

237
00:13:52,519 --> 00:13:54,159
brought you on to talk about, but I'm curious if

238
00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:57,720
you have any thoughts about that transition from viewing yourself

239
00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:02,240
as simply one guy, maybe your family too, as part

240
00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:07,960
of a culture, and if you could explain, do you

241
00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,879
think that being a minority group has something to do

242
00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:12,039
with that view?

243
00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:16,759
Speaker 1: Okay, that's good, that's an interesting question. Let's start.

244
00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:20,200
Speaker 4: I want to start by stating the following very important

245
00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:27,159
announcement though me specifically, but African daiss in general aren't

246
00:14:27,279 --> 00:14:28,200
that well.

247
00:14:29,759 --> 00:14:32,240
Speaker 1: In English. If we were to.

248
00:14:32,679 --> 00:14:36,639
Speaker 4: You know, in terms of English language skills, if we

249
00:14:36,799 --> 00:14:40,360
were to immigrate to the United States, for example Minnesota

250
00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:44,000
and open a preschool, we would spell it learning center.

251
00:14:44,519 --> 00:14:46,759
So that would be a net positive for the United

252
00:14:46,759 --> 00:14:50,000
States in my opinion, even though we have our handicaps.

253
00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:50,879
Speaker 1: That's me true.

254
00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:54,000
Speaker 5: I would say that's sort of damning by fate praise right,

255
00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:55,720
grading yourself on that scale.

256
00:14:55,879 --> 00:15:01,000
Speaker 4: Right, So no, but don amore note And the reason

257
00:15:01,039 --> 00:15:06,000
why I said that is I think Africanas moving to Australia,

258
00:15:06,039 --> 00:15:09,759
the US, England, Canada, they make fantastic Americans, They make

259
00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:14,559
fantastic Australians. They make they make great Candy's people. And

260
00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:19,799
I see some of my former classmates or university friends.

261
00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:22,759
I see them on social media and I see that

262
00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:29,240
they are now celebrating Australia Day. They are celebrating in

263
00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:31,879
America the fourth of July, and they are giving it.

264
00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:35,480
They're all they want to be patriots. They they they

265
00:15:35,919 --> 00:15:40,159
immediately adapt to their new host country and they try

266
00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:42,360
to be the best possible Americans that they can be.

267
00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:50,200
There are many people immigrating to such countries, horrible immigrants.

268
00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:52,519
They don't want to integrate, and that might be the

269
00:15:52,639 --> 00:15:57,320
saving of them as a collective culture, for better for worse. Africaners, however,

270
00:15:57,559 --> 00:16:01,399
make great immigrants. They want to adapt. They understand that

271
00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:03,720
it's a privilege to be in the new host country,

272
00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:07,279
and for that reason they give their all. They cannot

273
00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:11,360
integrate their children into the new culture fast enough. They

274
00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:14,360
cannot celebrate and paint their faces with the American flag,

275
00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:18,240
Australian flag or whatever fast enough. They do long own

276
00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:21,600
they missed, they missed the African sunset, and the animals,

277
00:16:21,639 --> 00:16:24,480
and and and and the people and the and and everything.

278
00:16:24,559 --> 00:16:28,320
Speaker 1: But they integrate, and that is fatal. That is quite

279
00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:29,039
fatal to us.

280
00:16:29,399 --> 00:16:33,639
Speaker 4: And as you correctively said, there might be a neighborhood

281
00:16:33,679 --> 00:16:39,879
that is still quite South African orientated. Even I know

282
00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:44,559
that there are some military companies in the Middle East,

283
00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:49,519
for example, in the UAE and someone where where the

284
00:16:49,639 --> 00:16:52,399
engineers have meetings in Africans, because so many of the

285
00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:55,000
best engineers just immigrated there for a better pay check.

286
00:16:55,039 --> 00:16:58,679
And I have a tough time blaming them, because they

287
00:16:58,879 --> 00:17:03,759
looked out for their own fine acial beast future and

288
00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:06,759
that of their children, and they buy the lifestyle that

289
00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:09,000
they can they and so on, because they have great

290
00:17:09,079 --> 00:17:11,519
skills and it's you know, scar skills and so on. However,

291
00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:17,240
they might hold out. They might speak Africans to their children.

292
00:17:17,279 --> 00:17:22,839
Their children will marry Australians, Americans, Englishmen, they will go

293
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,720
to school in the language of the host country. They

294
00:17:26,799 --> 00:17:31,640
will adapt to the politics of the host country, they

295
00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:34,880
will have friends with the values of the ost country.

296
00:17:36,039 --> 00:17:39,519
They will stop being what they are now, they will

297
00:17:39,559 --> 00:17:43,599
not be Africanish anymore. And if you have an individualistic,

298
00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:48,359
capitalistic worldview, and it's very easy to translate kind of

299
00:17:49,559 --> 00:17:53,559
free market thinking away from the marketplace into the marketplace

300
00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:57,319
of peoples and say, well, it is a better investment

301
00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:00,880
for myself, better in individual investment for myself to now

302
00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:04,759
be an Englishman or American or Australian. And in the

303
00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:09,720
marketplace of nations, my new host nation won the competition.

304
00:18:09,799 --> 00:18:12,839
And for that reason, my old culture will die. It

305
00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:17,759
is not it is not competitive commercially anymore in the

306
00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:19,119
competition of nations.

307
00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:22,920
Speaker 1: And that is tragic. And I do not agree with that.

308
00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:26,400
I think it is important to preserve what we are.

309
00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:27,000
I think.

310
00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:31,599
Speaker 4: As a as a Christian, you know, all of us

311
00:18:31,799 --> 00:18:37,640
even are sinful, sinful Christians. As a Christian, I believe

312
00:18:37,759 --> 00:18:40,359
my people was placed on this earth by the Lord

313
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:44,480
and should exist. And I don't think it's just merely

314
00:18:44,559 --> 00:18:48,319
a transactional relationship between my culture and another culture which

315
00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:54,880
can currently give me more, give me, give me, you know,

316
00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:59,599
advantages and safety and money and an opportunity. I think

317
00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:03,839
I'm must give my efforts and the efforts of those

318
00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,920
in my community to preserve what we have here, not

319
00:19:07,079 --> 00:19:09,960
only to preserve it, to build it out. It is

320
00:19:10,079 --> 00:19:13,880
a slow depth to just preserve. It is the mistake

321
00:19:14,039 --> 00:19:18,160
of mainstream conservatism to just try and conserve fifty years

322
00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:20,759
ago or twenty years ago, ten years ago, that is death.

323
00:19:21,279 --> 00:19:25,640
Speaker 1: You need to be conservative in your identity, but progressive

324
00:19:25,839 --> 00:19:27,720
in your ideals. You must go forward.

325
00:19:27,759 --> 00:19:29,880
Speaker 4: If you do not go forward, it's nose tachnoian, it's

326
00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:32,839
only falling behind. And for that reason we try to

327
00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:34,720
build out our culture. Yeah, and it comes back to

328
00:19:34,759 --> 00:19:37,799
what I said the introductionary remarks, and that is that

329
00:19:39,279 --> 00:19:42,039
if you do not have a public Afrikaans space, if

330
00:19:42,079 --> 00:19:44,279
you don't have a city square, if you do not

331
00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:50,079
have a school where the values are not only preserved

332
00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:55,720
but actively pursuit actively, there must be an active effort

333
00:19:55,799 --> 00:19:58,519
to expand it. If you don't have that, your culture

334
00:19:58,599 --> 00:20:02,079
is dying. It might you know, slow deaths, one hundred

335
00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:05,519
years death, but it is dying. And for that reason,

336
00:20:05,839 --> 00:20:09,119
we opted out as African Honiss and South Africa, the

337
00:20:09,279 --> 00:20:13,279
Urania people. We opted out of mainstream party politics. We

338
00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:16,400
opted out of just institutional fighting back, which is also

339
00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:19,920
very important and necessary. We opted out of many of

340
00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:22,799
the mainstream debates, and we said, if we want to survive,

341
00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:26,640
we must bold a city for our people. We started, Yeah,

342
00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:28,759
and one of the most add parts of the country.

343
00:20:29,559 --> 00:20:31,920
For many this would be considered desert. And it's an

344
00:20:32,039 --> 00:20:36,680
in jest and joke and jest many times referred to

345
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:40,480
the media and South Africa and other South Africans as

346
00:20:41,279 --> 00:20:43,720
you know, running into the desert. It's dry enough that

347
00:20:43,839 --> 00:20:47,000
you can say, it's hot enough, it's forty degrees cells yesterday,

348
00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:50,240
it's it's you can you can you can call a desert.

349
00:20:50,319 --> 00:20:52,400
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's added, it's try. It's a tough life.

350
00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:54,799
Speaker 4: But if we do not do that and go to

351
00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:59,519
an area where there is demographic hole, demographic vacuum, and

352
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:02,319
pick commem a demographic majority in such an own area

353
00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:09,079
and build a city with Afrikaans and African or families

354
00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:11,000
with the values that we shae that you hear it

355
00:21:11,079 --> 00:21:13,480
at home, and then you go to school and you

356
00:21:13,599 --> 00:21:15,559
hear that same values and that same beliefs and that

357
00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:17,839
same religion at school, and you go to church and

358
00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:20,319
you have the same message, and you go to play

359
00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,559
or socialize or have a beer at the pub and

360
00:21:23,599 --> 00:21:24,640
you year the same message.

361
00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:25,279
Speaker 1: You cannot do that.

362
00:21:25,319 --> 00:21:27,640
Speaker 4: If you can't create a public order in terms of

363
00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:31,160
a city, at least, at the very least for your

364
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:33,160
culture where you can live it, then you do not

365
00:21:33,319 --> 00:21:36,640
have anything. Then you just have a you have a

366
00:21:36,759 --> 00:21:38,599
faint memory of what your culture used to be.

367
00:21:41,519 --> 00:21:44,039
Speaker 5: I will admit, given that it's on the second week

368
00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:49,160
of roughly negative fifteen celsius here doesert doesn't sound half bad.

369
00:21:50,079 --> 00:21:54,599
But in all seriousness, I'm glad that you brought up

370
00:21:55,279 --> 00:22:00,359
the kind of marketplace mentality to your own culture, because

371
00:22:00,599 --> 00:22:04,119
this is something that is sort of endemic in the

372
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,279
American conservative movement. And look, I grew up around these people.

373
00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:07,920
Speaker 1: I love them.

374
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:09,720
Speaker 5: I have a great deal of affection for them. They

375
00:22:09,759 --> 00:22:15,200
are my people. But ultimately their beliefs are suicidal. The

376
00:22:15,319 --> 00:22:18,240
things that they say, the things that they hold are

377
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:22,920
paradoxically what's killing them. You know, they whine and moan.

378
00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:25,640
You can use a ruter word there about you know,

379
00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:30,000
the woke left. But they are ultimately conserving, as you've said,

380
00:22:30,839 --> 00:22:33,680
the same ideas that they purport to hate, just slightly

381
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:37,480
out of date. You know, they would be woke in

382
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:42,480
nineteen sixty four even. And to me, when I criticize

383
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:44,559
those people, it's not out of hatred. It's not that

384
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:48,440
I want them to fail. It's exactly the opposite. And

385
00:22:48,519 --> 00:22:51,880
it's why when I look to your people, when I

386
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:54,519
look to other projects in South Africa, the solidar are

387
00:22:54,519 --> 00:22:57,559
taught the other things, I see that as being a

388
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:02,480
rational and clear headed response to many of the same

389
00:23:02,599 --> 00:23:06,119
problems in both for our nations. One of the things

390
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:09,680
that I want to bring up talking about the market,

391
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:13,720
and you mentioned this earlier when talking about labor, is

392
00:23:13,839 --> 00:23:17,000
that in both my country and yours, there are very

393
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,599
cheap ways to build things right. You can hire people

394
00:23:20,839 --> 00:23:24,119
who are not legally here, you can go for kind

395
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:27,559
of the lowest better and get something built quickly and cheaply.

396
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:31,880
So why is that something that you at Urania have

397
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:35,119
specifically avoided. What's the thought process, how do you get

398
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:41,039
things done? And again, how much if this matters right,

399
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:43,880
how much more expensive is it? And why is that

400
00:23:44,039 --> 00:23:44,319
worth it?

401
00:23:45,599 --> 00:23:46,119
Speaker 1: Good question.

402
00:23:46,759 --> 00:23:51,480
Speaker 4: I I sometimes have trouble explaining the owner labor principle

403
00:23:51,599 --> 00:23:56,440
to Americans in some states and Europeans in genital because

404
00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:59,440
they just have a different mentality towards that altogether, although

405
00:23:59,519 --> 00:24:03,160
I believe it is changing in Europe specifically also in

406
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:08,880
news worth migration. Yes, mass migration is political, and I

407
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:10,880
don't want to take any of the blame away from

408
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:14,119
the politicians selling out people in terms of just bringing

409
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:16,559
more and more immigrants into the countries. That is, that

410
00:24:16,799 --> 00:24:19,680
is that is also fully on the shoulders of such

411
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,920
politicians doing such things. But there is an economic side

412
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,759
to it a few sites. One is the fact that

413
00:24:25,759 --> 00:24:28,599
the European population not having enough kids, so you need

414
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:31,519
to bring in young immigrants, you know, in order to

415
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:36,160
keep the economy going, and the need for labor for

416
00:24:36,319 --> 00:24:39,599
doing the jobs that that native Europeans don't want to

417
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:43,240
do anymore. So the immigrants they're willing to do it

418
00:24:43,319 --> 00:24:45,880
because they send the money to in regards to a

419
00:24:46,039 --> 00:24:49,240
great exchange rate, they send it home and their families

420
00:24:49,279 --> 00:24:52,799
live well because they are willing to sweep the streets

421
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,440
or take away the trash or do the jobs that

422
00:24:55,559 --> 00:24:56,440
other people don't want to do.

423
00:24:56,559 --> 00:24:58,839
Speaker 1: So that there's that. However, it's not.

424
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,680
Speaker 4: As progressed as it is in South Africa. So just

425
00:25:03,759 --> 00:25:06,599
a quick note in trying to explain this to a

426
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:08,519
European Austrian guy.

427
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:09,880
Speaker 1: While a guy, I used this.

428
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:16,319
Speaker 4: Quite quite often because this little event really helped me

429
00:25:17,559 --> 00:25:21,359
understand Urania from an outside perspective as well. So at

430
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:26,400
this Austrian gentleman here, and I I wondered, how am

431
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,119
I going to explain the own labor principle to this guy?

432
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,759
He doesn't have the context in regards to how much

433
00:25:33,599 --> 00:25:36,559
what we call Nuronia foreign labor is a thing in Africa,

434
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:41,480
how much that kind of colonial mindset transferred into South

435
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,599
African modern day South Africa under the old regime in

436
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,599
South Africa, but also under the new one. And how

437
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:49,480
I'm going to explain to this guy He probably does

438
00:25:49,559 --> 00:25:51,759
all his own house work and everything and so on.

439
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:53,720
And I said, okay, this is how it works. We

440
00:25:53,839 --> 00:25:56,119
believe Africana should do all their own labor and so on.

441
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,440
And he said, oh, well, I see it as this

442
00:25:58,559 --> 00:26:00,799
tell me if I'm correct, I say, let me air.

443
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:01,640
Speaker 1: He said, Okay.

444
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:03,319
Speaker 5: What you did is.

445
00:26:05,319 --> 00:26:10,799
Speaker 4: You realized that if you use the cheapest possible labor,

446
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:18,039
you individualize the revenue, but you socialize the cost. That

447
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:20,799
the most spot on explanation of this thing I've been

448
00:26:20,839 --> 00:26:24,519
working with my entire life. Yes, you individualize the revenue,

449
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:27,119
meaning that if you are a business owner of any

450
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,359
kind and you have access to the cheapest possible labor,

451
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:32,079
the effect of that is you make more money.

452
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:32,880
Speaker 1: That's a fact.

453
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,079
Speaker 4: That means that in South Africa they asked all opportunities

454
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:42,119
to make some money, especially with labor being so cheap. However,

455
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:46,880
you socialize the cost, the cost that comes with cheap labor,

456
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,759
especially the cheapest possible labor. So for many people, with

457
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:56,319
the constantly rising minimum wage in South Africa, it is

458
00:26:56,400 --> 00:27:01,400
socialized approach to that. Many people illegally bringing people from

459
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:03,880
Zimbabwe or from Malawi to come and work for them,

460
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:08,000
willing to work for even less and outside of the

461
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:14,759
framework of legal employer employer relationships. But with that comes

462
00:27:14,839 --> 00:27:18,079
issues foreigners coming into the country willing to work for

463
00:27:18,279 --> 00:27:22,400
almost nothing. It's just the next iteration of what we

464
00:27:22,519 --> 00:27:27,920
had in South Africa that is a skewed labor relationship

465
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:32,799
where africanners and anyone else who could afford it now also.

466
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:34,839
Speaker 1: Including a growing and growing black.

467
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:38,400
Speaker 4: Metal class in South Africa, just get in a very

468
00:27:38,519 --> 00:27:41,599
unequal manner people to do everything. So you've got someone

469
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:43,359
to tend to your garden, you have someone to clean

470
00:27:43,559 --> 00:27:47,119
clean your house, and people that work in your factory

471
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:51,720
or whatever. And then they cannot understand how in private life,

472
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:55,559
in the financial what portalized the business sector, they have

473
00:27:55,759 --> 00:27:59,079
complete control over these people in the manner that they

474
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,680
see fit. Some some in very firm, fair ways, very

475
00:28:02,839 --> 00:28:06,440
very good and nice ways, other in very unfair and

476
00:28:06,559 --> 00:28:10,279
very ugly ways in labor relationships. But the day the

477
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:14,920
election comes, then suddenly the middle class business owner and

478
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:19,680
the absolute bottom of the socioeconomic class worker their interests

479
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,759
don't align anymore. And suddenly this guy votes for a

480
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:27,279
kind of revolutionary party. He votes for expropriation without compensation,

481
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:31,559
he votes for extreme politicians. And this people can't understand it.

482
00:28:31,759 --> 00:28:33,799
Me as a minority, I'm but I'm the business owner,

483
00:28:33,799 --> 00:28:37,160
I'm the farm owner, and so why does this person

484
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:40,680
that I can pay next to nothing to do my work?

485
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:44,200
And he needs to obey all my orders. Why can

486
00:28:44,279 --> 00:28:47,400
he now have equals, say in the election. But not

487
00:28:47,559 --> 00:28:49,480
only that, but other problems comes with it. As that

488
00:28:49,599 --> 00:28:53,920
Austrian guy told me, you socialize the cost, so that

489
00:28:54,039 --> 00:28:57,559
person willing to work for undrodrand maybe heasies well the

490
00:28:57,640 --> 00:28:59,880
people you are well off, I can just steal that

491
00:29:00,119 --> 00:29:02,200
stuff and go again and get to a new employer,

492
00:29:02,759 --> 00:29:05,319
can help give information that leads to a farm attack

493
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:09,200
or a farmer. So that's the cost is socialized. It

494
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:13,240
impacts all community theft and whatnot that can come with it,

495
00:29:14,079 --> 00:29:17,400
but also culturally and also very specifically politically, because if

496
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,720
it's a one man, one vote democracy, it is the

497
00:29:21,119 --> 00:29:23,680
number of people that counts, not the level of education,

498
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,079
not the level of effort that you put into the business,

499
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:29,960
not the good or bad decisions. It's just one man,

500
00:29:30,079 --> 00:29:33,200
one vote, and for that you then socialize the cost,

501
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:35,440
so you individualize the revenue. There's money to be made,

502
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:37,160
and I think you see it in the United States

503
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,440
as well, people saying well, I'd rather have the cheapest

504
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:43,440
possible guy campaint my roof, or tend to my garden

505
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,319
or bolt something for me.

506
00:29:47,279 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 1: But I just don't want them politically involved.

507
00:29:49,519 --> 00:29:51,559
Speaker 4: Well, the fact is they are, even if it's election

508
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,839
or not election, if it's a culture, if it's crime, whatever,

509
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,680
there is an influence. There's a price tag that comes

510
00:29:57,720 --> 00:29:58,440
with cheap labor.

511
00:30:01,279 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 5: This is a conversation that I've had multiple times. I

512
00:30:04,799 --> 00:30:09,079
recently had on Lucas Potkin, a man who is producing

513
00:30:09,279 --> 00:30:13,200
things fully within the US. And you know, one of

514
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:16,920
the things he spoke about is that the there's a

515
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:22,519
lot of interest in sort of exaggerating the cost of

516
00:30:22,839 --> 00:30:26,640
employing Americans. And he says, you know, the constant number

517
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:28,400
you hear is double. It will cost double, It will

518
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:30,960
cost double, it will cost double. And he says, it's like, no,

519
00:30:31,079 --> 00:30:34,640
it's not. It's around thirty percent, which is more right.

520
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:36,920
I'm not going to say that that's an insignificant discount,

521
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,519
but in the grand scheme of things, it's not that much.

522
00:30:41,119 --> 00:30:44,920
And in addition, not only do you pay a little more,

523
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:47,920
but you get to create a community of people in

524
00:30:48,599 --> 00:30:51,519
rural areas who traditionally don't have access to steady employment,

525
00:30:52,039 --> 00:30:55,799
who can you know, support their families, have something that

526
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:58,759
they make that they are proud of. And sure, you

527
00:30:58,839 --> 00:31:01,799
can't point to that on a balance sheet you can't

528
00:31:01,839 --> 00:31:04,480
pull up in your shareholder meeting and say, oh, you know,

529
00:31:04,559 --> 00:31:08,000
there are now eighty people with good jobs who can

530
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:10,880
spread their money around and have something to be proud of.

531
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:15,039
So I think that's a definite part as well, right,

532
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:19,319
that myopically focused on that one variable, right, the revenue

533
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:23,759
at the expense of other things. And in this conversation,

534
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:26,880
you know, everyone always goes to the trades, which are

535
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:29,559
certainly very important for you know, blue collar workers to

536
00:31:29,599 --> 00:31:31,920
have dignity to have something they can support their family on.

537
00:31:32,559 --> 00:31:35,799
But one of the interesting dynamics in America is this

538
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:39,240
has started to happen to traditional white collar jobs. You

539
00:31:39,359 --> 00:31:43,240
have companies like Amazon and Apple and Google just in

540
00:31:43,319 --> 00:31:45,839
the last couple of weeks laying off tens of thousands

541
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:51,039
of highly compensated Americans and hiring roughly double the amount

542
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:56,000
of workers from India. Again, that same sort of behavior,

543
00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:01,880
and even in relatively you know, kind of unseerious jobs

544
00:32:02,119 --> 00:32:04,079
like I think of you know, how many people who

545
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:06,240
you know, how many girls that I went to college

546
00:32:06,319 --> 00:32:09,359
with that after school, you know, worked as a nannie,

547
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,279
worked as an all pair, you know, took a job

548
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,599
for a good wage, right sixty or seventy thousand dollars

549
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:18,359
a year to mind the children of you know, a

550
00:32:18,519 --> 00:32:20,680
pair of high powered lawyers or something like that in

551
00:32:20,759 --> 00:32:24,599
Chicago and New York. And sure those jobs still exist,

552
00:32:24,759 --> 00:32:28,119
but you know, now many of them are you know,

553
00:32:28,519 --> 00:32:31,680
girls from Brazil or other countries who were happy to

554
00:32:31,839 --> 00:32:35,680
work for you know, forty cents on the dollar, which

555
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,559
is a princely sum where they are from. And sure,

556
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:42,480
you know that individual girl may be perfectly fine, perfectly

557
00:32:42,519 --> 00:32:46,319
good at her job, but that opportunity is you know,

558
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:48,680
taken from somewhere else. And again that's not the most

559
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,599
serious job, right, that's not the most important thing, per se.

560
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,519
But you see that same pattern over and over and

561
00:32:54,599 --> 00:32:57,160
over again. You know that idea that you know, we

562
00:32:57,279 --> 00:33:01,440
will simply apply the law, the the logic of you know,

563
00:33:01,519 --> 00:33:05,279
the open marketplace to people, turning you know, labor into

564
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:09,640
a commodity in that way. And one other thing that

565
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:11,559
I think needs to be said is that you know,

566
00:33:11,759 --> 00:33:14,559
you mentioned the fact that you know, oftentimes these jobs

567
00:33:14,599 --> 00:33:16,880
are you know, low status. People don't want to do them.

568
00:33:17,319 --> 00:33:19,920
But I think a large portion of it is people

569
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:23,240
won't do them for the wages the market is producing.

570
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:27,200
You know, I think of in America, there are certain

571
00:33:27,359 --> 00:33:30,480
trades which are gated, right, you need to have, you know,

572
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,599
a license or a bond or something like that. And

573
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:37,519
it's this interesting relationship where those trades are still a

574
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:40,880
high status and highly compensated. You know, electricians and plumbers,

575
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:43,440
they are always the ones you here mentioned, whereas others

576
00:33:43,599 --> 00:33:46,960
that used to be trades. You know, people who you know,

577
00:33:47,039 --> 00:33:50,640
hang grywall, roofers, things like that, those have been completely gutted.

578
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:53,279
Even in my own instance, I think, you know, when

579
00:33:53,319 --> 00:33:56,240
I was an early teenager, you know, many of the

580
00:33:56,279 --> 00:33:58,920
guys a little bit older than me worked as roofers

581
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:01,599
in the summer, and they make good money for a teenager.

582
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:04,440
By the time I was old enough to do it,

583
00:34:05,559 --> 00:34:09,159
that job was exclusively for Hondurans and people from El Salvador.

584
00:34:09,519 --> 00:34:10,280
Speaker 1: You couldn't do it.

585
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:12,639
Speaker 5: There's no way you couldn't communicate with them.

586
00:34:12,639 --> 00:34:17,679
Speaker 1: They wouldn't. There's some certain valuable life skills and business

587
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:22,559
skills and endurance skills and work skills that falls away.

588
00:34:25,039 --> 00:34:28,760
Speaker 5: Right, And you mentioned, of course, you know that you

589
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:32,599
were doing this differently at Rania, and obviously I think

590
00:34:32,639 --> 00:34:35,400
a large, like a huge advantage to that is if

591
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:36,920
you are living out in the desert, out in the

592
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:40,119
middle of nowhere, it's helpful to have a whole crew

593
00:34:40,159 --> 00:34:42,840
of men who knows how everything works. But can you

594
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,639
speak a little bit now that we're done complaining, I

595
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:49,280
guess about both you know what you guys do right,

596
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:51,840
and then how that has proved to be an advantage.

597
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:53,559
Speaker 1: Sure?

598
00:34:54,199 --> 00:34:57,639
Speaker 4: Well, first of all, we haven't discovered the magic wandet

599
00:34:57,840 --> 00:34:59,840
we I think we're making good progress, but we have

600
00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:03,519
a challenges as well. So so we do have our

601
00:35:03,599 --> 00:35:05,920
challenges aroun Now it's not the event, it's not perfect,

602
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:09,559
but but I think we have found certain things that

603
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:13,519
definitely pays off already and will do more so on

604
00:35:13,559 --> 00:35:18,280
the long run. So very important thing that you mentioned

605
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,280
is that societal integration, whether you are a pair or

606
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:25,000
nanny or a rufer as a teenager, it's a part

607
00:35:25,079 --> 00:35:28,800
of social development. And the interesting thing of South Africa's

608
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,840
and I think also the future of the West, is

609
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:36,679
that a lot of these advantages that you get in community,

610
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,480
if you make enough money, you can just buy your

611
00:35:40,519 --> 00:35:42,559
way into it. You can you can buy your way

612
00:35:42,599 --> 00:35:44,920
into a good school for your kids where they socialize

613
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,760
other kids in the same situation. So you spend as

614
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,079
little as possible money on your labor, as much as

615
00:35:50,159 --> 00:35:53,639
possible on your kids and whatever. They get good opportunities

616
00:35:53,639 --> 00:35:54,360
to get a good school.

617
00:35:54,599 --> 00:35:56,039
Speaker 1: But that's a that's a that's an.

618
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:59,880
Speaker 4: Economically defined community, very actually very isolated. In the same

619
00:36:00,039 --> 00:36:06,239
people you know complaining about Urania being quote unquote so isolated,

620
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:10,599
isolates their children in these elite schools, elite colleges and whatnot.

621
00:36:11,119 --> 00:36:13,199
Speaker 1: But there's no whole society.

622
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 4: These kids don't necessarily have the interaction with poverty in

623
00:36:17,559 --> 00:36:23,519
their own ethnicity or maybe opportunities in their own environment.

624
00:36:23,599 --> 00:36:26,000
And that is why our public approach is so important.

625
00:36:26,079 --> 00:36:28,719
So it must be a whole, it must be an

626
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,920
entirety of a society. And that's the first thing. Second

627
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:36,159
thing is skill development. And I must say not only

628
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:39,440
during the final stages of the previous regime, but also

629
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:44,639
still in this regime, many well off africaners has gotten

630
00:36:44,639 --> 00:36:48,519
to a point where they lost blue collar skills. My grandfather,

631
00:36:48,559 --> 00:36:51,239
for example, was a fantastic bricklayery, was a man that

632
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:55,320
could work with steel very very well and with wood,

633
00:36:56,119 --> 00:37:02,559
great craftsmen. But the generation after those people lost such skills.

634
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:05,199
So we need to and and the generations after that

635
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:06,480
obviously of course as well.

636
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 1: So we need to.

637
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:10,199
Speaker 4: Rebuild that and for that reason, we created a college

638
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:14,800
in Ornia specifically focusing on these skills. You mentioned electricity

639
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,719
and plumbing to the very relevant courses here as well

640
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:24,400
as farming farm diploma farming. So we must actively go

641
00:37:24,519 --> 00:37:27,360
out and pursue the education of that those skills. And

642
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:29,840
we do live in a commercial world, so you must

643
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:34,559
make it successful enough so that it could bring in

644
00:37:34,679 --> 00:37:37,639
people just coming for the commercial value of such an education,

645
00:37:38,119 --> 00:37:40,400
and you keep as many of the people here, but

646
00:37:40,559 --> 00:37:43,400
if they just come for the studies and living, and

647
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:45,280
it's also find they bring money into your economy.

648
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:46,800
Speaker 5: And then.

649
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 1: In the community to.

650
00:37:50,159 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 4: Try and uplift people, people who maybe come from poverty

651
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:56,159
and so on, we have certain programs to we try

652
00:37:56,199 --> 00:37:59,239
and get them formalized training. People who've been maybe working

653
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,119
on a construction side on a farm, get them formalized training.

654
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:04,960
And we have a very important program to help people

655
00:38:05,039 --> 00:38:08,599
become homeowners rather than perpetual renters. So we try to

656
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:11,960
take people from a perpetual renting future and try and

657
00:38:12,039 --> 00:38:14,599
make them homeowners, which is very very important. It puts

658
00:38:14,639 --> 00:38:17,039
down roots, It commits to the community and so on.

659
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:19,760
But you also empower that person and the next generation

660
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:23,800
if they come from bad circumstances, you create, incentivize and

661
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:28,880
create circumstances in which they can prosper in terms of

662
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:33,840
day development generational development. At the end of the day,

663
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:35,679
we still need to centrally enforce it.

664
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:36,199
Speaker 1: We try to.

665
00:38:36,599 --> 00:38:40,119
Speaker 4: We try to create culture, internal new culture and new

666
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:43,119
what we call a new a arbates perdiellum or a

667
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:45,400
new labor context.

668
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,440
Speaker 1: I guess, so that it becomes a cultural thing and

669
00:38:48,559 --> 00:38:49,280
it is working.

670
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 4: We can definitely see that people staying or on for

671
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,719
over a certain amount of time keeps that keeps the

672
00:38:55,840 --> 00:39:00,360
newcomers accountable in terms of labor practices. But the stage

673
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:05,920
we still centrally enforce labor practices. We just enforce the

674
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,599
fact that in Urania only africaners work, and that is

675
00:39:08,679 --> 00:39:10,960
the way that you change the culture. It's necessary to

676
00:39:11,079 --> 00:39:16,519
do otherwise on the short term, before it becomes a

677
00:39:16,679 --> 00:39:21,320
real cultural depth. I think it already started developing, but

678
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:26,719
it's so important that you manage to enforce it to

679
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:31,920
make it possible that people really really adhere to the

680
00:39:32,039 --> 00:39:36,400
principle of africaner only labor it's non negotiable. And as

681
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:38,559
it went over the past thirty years, we did see

682
00:39:39,119 --> 00:39:42,760
more and more community based approach to that where the

683
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:47,360
local government doesn't have to keep newcomers accountable, but more

684
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:49,159
and more the people are stepping up and saying, this

685
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,000
is how it works. We will not accept your bringing

686
00:39:52,039 --> 00:39:53,519
in foreign labor to our community.

687
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:54,320
Speaker 5: We do it.

688
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:54,559
Speaker 1: Yea.

689
00:39:54,599 --> 00:39:57,440
Speaker 4: If it costs you ten thousand trans more to put

690
00:39:57,559 --> 00:40:00,079
up a small roof or to whatever it is, what

691
00:40:00,199 --> 00:40:04,360
it is, you do not privatize the reven socialize the cost. Here,

692
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:08,800
we socialize the advantages of owned labor. So that's been

693
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:09,719
very important to us.

694
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,559
Speaker 1: So I would say training and education.

695
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:16,400
Speaker 4: Secondly, the idea of creating a stable living and a

696
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:21,440
stable environment for people who are in blue collar jobs.

697
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:25,159
Try to make them homeowners, to help them participate in

698
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:28,840
the community and so on, and have integration of all

699
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:32,960
classes in the same area. And then finally the idea

700
00:40:33,079 --> 00:40:36,599
that both the local government and the community must keep

701
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:44,280
the rest of the citizenry responsibly accountable for their labor practices.

702
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:50,679
Speaker 5: You mentioned home ownership. Obviously that's been in the news

703
00:40:51,079 --> 00:40:56,639
in America and honestly over most of the anglosphere. Housing

704
00:40:56,719 --> 00:41:00,559
has become extraordinarily expensive here for any number of reasons.

705
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:07,119
But the conversation, in my mind, it's sort of missing

706
00:41:07,159 --> 00:41:11,719
several elements because, you know, home ownership in itself again, right, Okay,

707
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:15,039
so you've moved from an asset to you know, being

708
00:41:15,039 --> 00:41:18,239
an eternal renter. That's certainly important. But you touched on

709
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:20,840
something that I think is perhaps the most important part,

710
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:25,519
which is one having something at stake, being a part

711
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:29,880
of culkin in the game exactly. You know, if you

712
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:33,719
were a renter, you you know, the town starts to

713
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:37,280
go downhill. Oh, you can move down the street, you

714
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,639
can move across the nation. Your lease may be twelve months.

715
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:42,840
You can tough it out for a few and go

716
00:41:43,039 --> 00:41:46,480
somewhere else. You can be this sort of nomad, this

717
00:41:46,679 --> 00:41:49,960
person from nowhere who's just at just as at home

718
00:41:50,039 --> 00:41:55,119
at you know, at Vienna or Portland or Washington, d C.

719
00:41:55,440 --> 00:42:00,800
Part of that be honest like rootless cosmopolitan class, and

720
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:06,239
in my mind, that is another form of that cultural

721
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:09,280
death we were talking about earlier. You really are nothing.

722
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:13,159
Then you were simply an atomized consumer, and you can

723
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:15,920
go where your consumption is the most you know, easy

724
00:42:16,039 --> 00:42:19,280
and pleasurable. You have access to, you know, however many

725
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:22,119
you know, goods and services you want to consume, and

726
00:42:23,079 --> 00:42:26,079
it's generally one of the things that I hate about

727
00:42:27,559 --> 00:42:31,480
going to certain cities like London is the worst for this,

728
00:42:31,599 --> 00:42:34,679
but also I look to places like you know, Austin, Texas,

729
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:36,599
you know, which used to be this kind of quirky

730
00:42:36,679 --> 00:42:40,760
small town and has become sort of a second Los Angeles.

731
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:43,199
You know, it looks almost identical now. It's very odd

732
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:47,519
and in that you see obviously the death of culture

733
00:42:47,599 --> 00:42:51,159
for those individual people, but also that place is no

734
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:54,039
longer what it was. It's no longer something unique. It

735
00:42:54,119 --> 00:43:00,960
becomes just another outpost of that kind of globe market place.

736
00:43:01,679 --> 00:43:05,519
And it's one of the things that I say this

737
00:43:05,599 --> 00:43:07,920
as someone who's a product of it. You see very

738
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:12,800
strongly in the in the death of regional accents. My

739
00:43:13,639 --> 00:43:16,800
great grandmother died not too long ago at you know,

740
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:19,360
her mid nineties, and she lived a very long life,

741
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:23,840
but she had a very specific regional accent which came

742
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:26,199
from you know, a certain area of a certain state.

743
00:43:27,119 --> 00:43:29,639
The way that she said, you know, water was different,

744
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:32,320
that all of these little things that spoke to being

745
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:35,360
from a certain place, being of a certain culture. And

746
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:39,039
sure you know I grew up. I still am, you know,

747
00:43:39,199 --> 00:43:41,480
very close to where she was born in the grand

748
00:43:41,559 --> 00:43:45,159
scheme of things. But you know, I could minus a

749
00:43:45,199 --> 00:43:48,000
few pieces of syntax. I could be from Milwaukee, I

750
00:43:48,039 --> 00:43:51,119
could be from California. My accent has been completely and

751
00:43:51,199 --> 00:43:54,760
totally rounded off. It sounds like an Internet American. And

752
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:58,400
sure you know I would be artificial. If I, you know,

753
00:43:58,519 --> 00:44:00,599
got out my cowboy hat and tried to lean into it,

754
00:44:00,639 --> 00:44:04,320
it'd be fake. But you see that sort of atomization

755
00:44:05,039 --> 00:44:08,599
and the advantage to owning property, the advantage to being

756
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:11,119
tied to a place is that you can't do that.

757
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:14,000
Sure you could sell your house and move, but it's

758
00:44:14,039 --> 00:44:16,800
way harder to do. You know, very few people you

759
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:19,280
know buy and sell homes every year. It tends to

760
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:23,880
both anchor you to a place, but also make you

761
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:27,039
care about a place, because you know, as someone whose

762
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:30,079
state is going through a very dramatic political upheaval. For

763
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:35,039
the negative, I am committed. My roots are here, especially

764
00:44:35,159 --> 00:44:37,800
if you have children. All of these things and being

765
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:41,320
part of that renter class. And I don't blame people

766
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:43,480
for it. It's a very hard thing to climb out

767
00:44:43,519 --> 00:44:48,199
of it sort of pulls you into that culture of nowhere.

768
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:52,400
So if you could, could you go into that program

769
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:54,199
a little bit, because it actually something I haven't heard of,

770
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:56,920
and I'm kind of interested to see one why you

771
00:44:57,039 --> 00:45:00,079
guys think it's important to give people a place that

772
00:45:00,159 --> 00:45:03,239
they own, but also how you go about helping people

773
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:03,480
with that.

774
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:07,320
Speaker 4: Yes, well, it's actually quite complicated, becau it's not an

775
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:10,440
easy program, and I wish we could do much, much,

776
00:45:10,599 --> 00:45:14,280
much more than the current rate. Interesting thing is it's

777
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:20,440
such an augomiation of different approaches that came together in

778
00:45:20,519 --> 00:45:23,679
a very complex system, and I think the one anchoring

779
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:26,000
thing is the fact that there is the world to

780
00:45:26,079 --> 00:45:27,840
do it, The idea to do it, the wish to

781
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:30,480
do it, and everything else is secondary all the ways

782
00:45:30,519 --> 00:45:34,400
that we achieve it. So it'd be quite complicated to explain,

783
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:36,280
but I'm going to try because there are so many

784
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:38,440
moving parts, one of which is the fact that we

785
00:45:38,519 --> 00:45:40,880
have our own bank and our own local banking system,

786
00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:44,599
which is a cooperative bank, meaning that every person with

787
00:45:44,679 --> 00:45:47,320
an account at the bank becomes a shareholder at the bank.

788
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:49,920
You can vote at the bank for interest rates, for

789
00:45:50,079 --> 00:45:52,000
both of directors, all those things. So there's a certain

790
00:45:52,039 --> 00:45:56,039
connectiveness there as well, long history there, but that's an

791
00:45:56,079 --> 00:45:58,559
important aspect. The second thing to say is that there

792
00:45:58,639 --> 00:46:06,039
are institutions worth commercial visions, but not only such, so

793
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:08,599
their goal is to make money to go on, but

794
00:46:10,559 --> 00:46:14,639
developing property still in line with what we want to

795
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:17,880
achieve as a community. I don't know what to call it,

796
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:20,599
maybe something like a free market with breaks on. So

797
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:24,400
you still have the ambition and intention to have commercial

798
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:28,599
success as one should have. Any ambitious person should should

799
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:32,800
want to have some level of success, but not to

800
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:35,320
the cost of all other things.

801
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:37,159
Speaker 1: So first you have the banking system.

802
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:42,360
Speaker 4: Then you have these commercial entities, but with the ambitions

803
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:45,920
of further in the community course. Then you have your

804
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:48,760
own town council, which are local government they were involved

805
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:49,079
as well.

806
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:51,079
Speaker 1: And then you have.

807
00:46:52,599 --> 00:46:57,079
Speaker 4: Something not unique to African honers, but I think unique

808
00:46:57,119 --> 00:46:59,280
in terms of the impact that it has in our

809
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:03,559
survivor currently and our cultural development, which is institutions like

810
00:47:03,639 --> 00:47:07,760
the solidarity movement of Reforum and so on, both on donations,

811
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:13,960
monthly recurring donations, making them kind of meet up political

812
00:47:14,079 --> 00:47:18,360
organizations or semi political organizations in the sense that they

813
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:22,880
are very widely represented, but they bring in a monthly

814
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:27,960
revenue from a bunch of contributors on a political scenes,

815
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:32,320
on a political social scenes, making development possible. So you

816
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:34,679
have the bank, you have the local government, you have

817
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:39,920
the internal commercial entities, and then locally and outside of Urania,

818
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:44,000
you have entities that bring in donations for the cause

819
00:47:44,039 --> 00:47:47,599
of the people and turn that into commercial success. You

820
00:47:47,679 --> 00:47:50,280
have all these lined up, and then with the basis

821
00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:53,960
of that, what we did was the following. The Helping Fund,

822
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:55,480
which is Urania Movement.

823
00:47:55,599 --> 00:48:01,039
Speaker 1: Where I'm affiliated, is our specific institution for.

824
00:48:02,599 --> 00:48:06,719
Speaker 4: What shall I say, looking over the needy, But we

825
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:09,679
do it in terms of long term empowerment rather than

826
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:13,000
short term satisfaction and so on, So we don't do

827
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:15,880
really do food parcels and and and you know, short

828
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:19,519
term solutions. We try to focus on education, training, long

829
00:48:19,599 --> 00:48:25,239
term things. We brought in donations to make special industry

830
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:28,719
loans possible so that people could at the bank in

831
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:31,760
terms of a normal commercial transaction get a loan, but

832
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:38,000
the twenty five percent deposit is covered indust free or

833
00:48:38,079 --> 00:48:40,840
twenty percent deposits from the Helping Fund, so they still

834
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:45,840
pay back and that helps the next person, but that

835
00:48:46,039 --> 00:48:48,000
part at least is interest free. Then you have the

836
00:48:48,079 --> 00:48:50,800
local government working with commercial entities in some of the

837
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:55,719
older developments, and the commercial entities working on their own

838
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:58,840
and some of the newer developments like Faglie to make

839
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:01,679
it possible to serve it plots as cheaply as possible.

840
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:05,199
They are quite small, so that scale scaling as possible,

841
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:12,159
and then then put this unique kind of housing and

842
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:16,239
plots in the market, specifically for people who becomes a

843
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:19,840
first time ownern So you have the bank blending out

844
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:26,599
the money, you have this institution with donation support making

845
00:49:27,159 --> 00:49:30,199
industry loans possible for the deposit part, and then you

846
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:32,840
have the commercial entities developing the land and making it

847
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:36,079
available for a much more affordable price. In some of

848
00:49:36,199 --> 00:49:39,360
all the developments I think we did, the value of

849
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:41,760
the plots being sold was about twenty to twenty five

850
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:45,360
percent of market value, and there was also special arrangements

851
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:48,719
for the loans for the construction material. In many cases,

852
00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:52,360
people built their own houses specifically because many people of

853
00:49:52,559 --> 00:49:56,320
that socio economic status were in the construction sector, which

854
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:59,239
is one of around now's big economic sectors, so they

855
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:01,800
were able to with the weekends also build their own houses,

856
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:04,039
paint their own houses plaster, and so on.

857
00:50:04,679 --> 00:50:06,239
Speaker 1: And that's basically the program.

858
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:09,800
Speaker 4: It's it's very very it's many levers and machines and

859
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:13,039
gears into one system. Is quite quite complicated to just

860
00:50:13,199 --> 00:50:17,599
explain in simple terms. But you do need the banking system.

861
00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:21,639
You do need the commercial developers that does it for money,

862
00:50:21,679 --> 00:50:25,119
because that's a good incentive. You do need the donation

863
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:29,880
based entities such as the helping fund which we have

864
00:50:30,039 --> 00:50:31,840
to run a movement or some of the other ones

865
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:35,800
at solidarity or so. And you do need the the

866
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:39,320
the person themselves having access to funds to do the

867
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:42,119
development and the willingness to do the development. So and

868
00:50:42,199 --> 00:50:44,280
the local government of course, if I haven't mentioned that, so.

869
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:47,000
Speaker 1: Many gears go into this machine.

870
00:50:48,079 --> 00:50:51,440
Speaker 4: But regardless of value structure it, I would suppose many

871
00:50:51,519 --> 00:50:55,599
other ways to structure it here and elsewhere. Regardless of

872
00:50:55,599 --> 00:50:58,079
how you structure it, there must be a collective will

873
00:50:58,280 --> 00:50:59,119
to achieve such.

874
00:51:00,119 --> 00:51:00,239
Speaker 5: Uh.

875
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:03,800
Speaker 4: If it's if you don't have the collective world to

876
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:05,719
do it. If they have will isn't day, there will

877
00:51:05,719 --> 00:51:07,559
be no plans to be made. But if the will

878
00:51:07,679 --> 00:51:10,280
is day, you can with whatever means you can make

879
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:10,840
the plans.

880
00:51:13,639 --> 00:51:15,800
Speaker 5: So as we sort of you know, come into the

881
00:51:16,119 --> 00:51:20,119
last segment of this interview. Uh, the coverage of your

882
00:51:20,199 --> 00:51:24,719
town is quite interesting. Right wing distance across the West

883
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:27,880
are very interested in it for obvious reasons. But uh,

884
00:51:28,199 --> 00:51:32,639
the mainstream press is not exactly kind to you for

885
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:39,360
obvious reasons. Of course, I'm curious what is what is

886
00:51:39,519 --> 00:51:44,360
your interaction with outside observers, whether that is you know

887
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:47,400
the government of South Africa, whether that is you know

888
00:51:47,519 --> 00:51:52,159
the press, because if you if you read the coverage

889
00:51:52,199 --> 00:51:55,519
in the mainstream media, for whatever that's worth, Uh, it

890
00:51:55,639 --> 00:52:00,639
doesn't seem to be accurate. So one, do you think

891
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:04,960
that there are so many people angry at a town

892
00:52:05,079 --> 00:52:07,800
of three thousand people in the literal middle of nowhere?

893
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:09,679
Not to be rude, but it doesn't seem to be

894
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:12,360
the most relevant thing on the face of the earth.

895
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:16,199
And also, what is your interaction with the government like

896
00:52:16,599 --> 00:52:19,960
because you know, given Bee and some other policies, it

897
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:23,800
seems as if they wouldn't be incredibly supportive. I'll put

898
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:24,159
it that way.

899
00:52:27,119 --> 00:52:29,079
Speaker 4: That's a mouthful in terms of what I have to

900
00:52:29,199 --> 00:52:32,239
react in a matter reply, but I'm going to try.

901
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:35,599
Let's start with the government relationship and then end with

902
00:52:35,679 --> 00:52:38,519
the media relationship, and with media I mean all that

903
00:52:38,639 --> 00:52:42,760
are interested somewhat out of proportion of our community. First,

904
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:45,559
the government, I.

905
00:52:45,599 --> 00:52:46,280
Speaker 1: Would say.

906
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:53,159
Speaker 4: Someway between neutral and hostile. Neutral in the sense that

907
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:56,719
the normal government officials, people just doing their jobs over

908
00:52:56,800 --> 00:52:59,960
there are don't really care that much. They don't really

909
00:53:00,119 --> 00:53:03,519
care about Toronia. If we work together and the and

910
00:53:03,679 --> 00:53:09,199
the relationship and the and the you know, there's reciprocity

911
00:53:09,239 --> 00:53:11,960
of respect and so on, then then they finally just continue.

912
00:53:12,039 --> 00:53:13,599
Speaker 1: Politically, it's somewhat different.

913
00:53:14,199 --> 00:53:16,920
Speaker 4: So so officials in government not that much of a problem,

914
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:20,559
but politician is a very big problem. But Toronia has

915
00:53:20,559 --> 00:53:23,679
got this unique position where it is in because of

916
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:27,559
the fact that as the government changed, African has still

917
00:53:27,599 --> 00:53:29,800
had a a at a very big.

918
00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:33,199
Speaker 1: Kind of power share.

919
00:53:33,320 --> 00:53:35,639
Speaker 4: We still had the military, we had the police, we

920
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:38,599
had very politically involved people, very capable leaders. And at

921
00:53:38,639 --> 00:53:42,480
that stage, uh political pressure that was put on the

922
00:53:42,559 --> 00:53:46,639
new government forced them to acknowledge that a right to

923
00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:50,880
self determination must be acknowledged on the long term and

924
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:54,679
that was written into this African constitution very very very

925
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:57,159
small and scrapy and not with a lot of attention

926
00:53:57,239 --> 00:54:00,280
to it, but it is there and and we do

927
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:02,840
use that as well as we can. On the other hand,

928
00:54:05,519 --> 00:54:09,440
you know the practical attacks from the eff they killed

929
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:12,199
the boy, killed the former party, or the anc themselves.

930
00:54:12,719 --> 00:54:14,880
We just saw the Premier of the Northern Cape attacking

931
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:18,679
Urania again, so you have that. It's a very complex relationship.

932
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:22,960
The important thing is we're not doing anything illegal. We

933
00:54:23,159 --> 00:54:26,639
are totally alternative, I think, much comparable to our great

934
00:54:26,719 --> 00:54:30,239
ancestors tearing the Great Trek Whup. They didn't rebel against

935
00:54:30,239 --> 00:54:33,559
the British or they did try, but it was very

936
00:54:33,599 --> 00:54:37,719
short lived, as many other citizens of the British crown did.

937
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:40,480
They just packed up their things and they moved two

938
00:54:40,519 --> 00:54:44,800
thousand kilometers away from the British center of power and

939
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:48,000
created new republics. They outside of a British there of influence.

940
00:54:48,039 --> 00:54:49,840
It was not an illegal deed per se, although the

941
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:52,960
British tried to classify it as such. It was not illegal.

942
00:54:53,519 --> 00:54:56,639
It was also not passive. It was an active It

943
00:54:56,800 --> 00:55:00,800
was an act of creating your future, of making up something.

944
00:55:01,199 --> 00:55:04,159
But it was not armed rebellion. It was just moving

945
00:55:04,239 --> 00:55:07,440
away and starting something new. And in that sense, Urania

946
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:11,159
has a very unique problem to tackle. It's very you know,

947
00:55:11,239 --> 00:55:13,400
what do you really do about it. If people say, well,

948
00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:16,320
we're going to take up more responsibilities and expect less

949
00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:21,320
and less the state, So that is the one side

950
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:21,760
of the queen.

951
00:55:22,599 --> 00:55:23,519
Speaker 1: Then the media thing.

952
00:55:23,639 --> 00:55:25,840
Speaker 4: So obviously a lot of coverage from YouTube is to

953
00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:29,199
mainstream media, and I think so much has been said

954
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:33,280
about Irania, but in most cases people totally misunderstand us

955
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:36,599
because they are unable to break out of this kind

956
00:55:36,639 --> 00:55:41,480
of duality, whether that reality is free market versus communist,

957
00:55:42,039 --> 00:55:52,039
black versus white, progressive versus stuck in the past, Democrat, republican,

958
00:55:52,199 --> 00:55:54,880
far right, far left, and the media and the mainstream

959
00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:57,079
cannot break out of that thinking.

960
00:55:57,519 --> 00:55:58,360
Speaker 1: They either think we.

961
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:03,599
Speaker 4: Are these kind of super racist KKK members, you know,

962
00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:08,920
burning crosses and hating other people, and that's their only perception,

963
00:56:09,039 --> 00:56:11,239
and they cannot understand us in any other way because

964
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:15,119
that's only as far as that dual minded perception of

965
00:56:15,280 --> 00:56:20,000
life goes. All their perception is just New South Africa,

966
00:56:21,039 --> 00:56:24,559
you know, everything that is good also Africa everything that

967
00:56:24,719 --> 00:56:28,880
is bad, and you know, we are They just believe

968
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:32,519
that everything was fine and one hundred percent in Africa

969
00:56:32,599 --> 00:56:35,880
until the bad colonizers came and the Dutch and then

970
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:38,800
it was hell on Earth until Nelson Mandela himself came

971
00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:43,400
down from heaven surrounded with or a big halo or

972
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:46,440
something and just made everything perfect again. And now these

973
00:56:46,519 --> 00:56:49,559
people stuck in the past don't want to, you know,

974
00:56:49,719 --> 00:56:50,760
embrace their inbornation.

975
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:53,280
Speaker 1: So it's such a simple minded.

976
00:56:53,559 --> 00:56:56,960
Speaker 4: Duality view on life that they cannot understand it on

977
00:56:57,400 --> 00:56:59,679
And because they cannot understand it, because they're limited by

978
00:56:59,719 --> 00:57:03,440
their perceptions, limited by their own understanding of what is reality,

979
00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:07,400
they don't know what to make of it because it

980
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:10,159
doesn't fit in. On the one hand, these people are

981
00:57:10,159 --> 00:57:12,119
supposed to be stuck in the past. Super Rice is

982
00:57:12,199 --> 00:57:15,119
super super bad. On the other hand, Urania is establishing

983
00:57:15,239 --> 00:57:19,000
relationships with tribal communities in South Africa that wants to

984
00:57:19,199 --> 00:57:24,039
move away from the ANC government's spheres of power traditional

985
00:57:24,199 --> 00:57:27,400
tribal communities. On the other hand, Urania is progressive in

986
00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:32,000
our solutions for energy, for example, progressive and our solutions

987
00:57:32,039 --> 00:57:36,599
for community and upliftment. A journalist wants it, but it

988
00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:39,400
seems like everybody in Ironia is woke. And I told her,

989
00:57:39,519 --> 00:57:41,039
you know, yeah, but not in the way that you

990
00:57:41,199 --> 00:57:45,639
journalists understand wokeness. We are woke in terms of understanding

991
00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:48,159
what we want to achieve for our people. And because

992
00:57:48,239 --> 00:57:51,079
the mainstream media and some of the alternative media cannot

993
00:57:51,199 --> 00:57:55,880
break out of this duality limiting perspective, they cannot understand

994
00:57:56,119 --> 00:58:00,800
this new position outside of their you know, I almost

995
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:04,199
wanted to say simple minded approach. It is something totally different.

996
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:09,159
It is it is outside of the mainstream kind of

997
00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:17,400
commercialized understanding of life, understanding, transactional understanding of relationships. Even

998
00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:20,280
if we're on it cost us, even if even if

999
00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:22,079
we lose a bit of our own money or our

1000
00:58:22,119 --> 00:58:25,320
own opportunities, it's still worth it. And they cannot understand that,

1001
00:58:25,519 --> 00:58:29,159
even if we don't have access to the cheapest possible labor,

1002
00:58:29,199 --> 00:58:32,519
and for that reason, the same things cost us more,

1003
00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:34,639
it's fine, and we do it and we want to

1004
00:58:34,679 --> 00:58:39,480
do it, and they cannot understand that. And simultaneous going

1005
00:58:39,559 --> 00:58:43,639
forward in life, expanding our services, expanding our opportunities, creating

1006
00:58:43,719 --> 00:58:48,039
new things. So, because RONA doesn't fit into that, they

1007
00:58:48,119 --> 00:58:50,239
need to be negative. And what do they do when

1008
00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:52,800
they then they are negative? They just refer back to

1009
00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:57,679
the simplest version of the argument, labels racism bad, you know,

1010
00:58:58,480 --> 00:59:01,519
stuck in the past, things like that. So but we have,

1011
00:59:01,679 --> 00:59:04,920
I think, to some extent, learned to to use the media,

1012
00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:08,440
and every journalist thinks are going to be smarter than

1013
00:59:08,480 --> 00:59:11,079
the previous one. But I think some of the people

1014
00:59:11,239 --> 00:59:14,400
Mournia now use the media instead of the media using us,

1015
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:17,280
and we get our message out and we sometimes even

1016
00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:20,440
take them for a bit of a playful right, and

1017
00:59:20,599 --> 00:59:24,519
and and and and catch them in their preconceived racism.

1018
00:59:24,519 --> 00:59:27,400
I don't know if you remember that one debate in

1019
00:59:27,719 --> 00:59:30,119
not debate, some kind of American talk show, I don't

1020
00:59:30,119 --> 00:59:31,840
know what it's called. Maybe it was the view of

1021
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:34,320
something where these ladies were speaking about the Donald Trump

1022
00:59:34,320 --> 00:59:36,280
presidency coming up, and they said, you know, if he

1023
00:59:36,320 --> 00:59:38,519
wants all the foreigners out, who's going to clean his toilet?

1024
00:59:38,559 --> 00:59:42,079
And then she realized what she said, and you actually

1025
00:59:42,199 --> 00:59:47,119
catch these people out on their their own, you know,

1026
00:59:47,360 --> 00:59:50,039
fossilized all ancient ways of thinking.

1027
00:59:50,599 --> 00:59:52,079
Speaker 1: And that is quite a lot of fun.

1028
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:56,360
Speaker 5: Ben, this has been a great conversation. Thank you so

1029
00:59:56,519 --> 00:59:59,559
much for coming on the show. If people want to

1030
00:59:59,599 --> 01:00:01,239
find you, they want to find your work, what's the

1031
01:00:01,360 --> 01:00:02,360
best way for them to do that.

1032
01:00:03,360 --> 01:00:06,159
Speaker 4: Well, they can check out just Urania on Facebook, they

1033
01:00:06,239 --> 01:00:10,960
can follow my Twitter just at uist Stratum. They can

1034
01:00:11,039 --> 01:00:15,239
follow Urania bevieng Urania movement just En Afrikaans on YouTube,

1035
01:00:15,840 --> 01:00:20,320
or they can check out our website www dot Uranai.

1036
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:24,119
Speaker 5: All of those will be down in the description. Highly

1037
01:00:24,159 --> 01:00:26,480
recommend everyone check it out. As far as my stuff,

1038
01:00:26,599 --> 01:00:31,679
the Jay Burdens Show could find anywhere you listen to podcasts, Apple, Spotify, YouTube.

1039
01:00:32,119 --> 01:00:34,639
The show is viewers supported. All right, you can throw

1040
01:00:34,719 --> 01:00:37,400
me a few bucks a month on Patreon, Substack or

1041
01:00:37,480 --> 01:00:40,360
gum Road and for your money you get all the

1042
01:00:40,400 --> 01:00:43,199
episodes early with no ads. I know the ads are annoying,

1043
01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:45,719
but they pay my mortgage. I did the math on

1044
01:00:45,840 --> 01:00:48,639
this and it comes out to I think twenty cents

1045
01:00:48,679 --> 01:00:51,199
an hour of content. It's really not a bad deal

1046
01:00:51,239 --> 01:00:54,960
if I do say so myself. I realized being a

1047
01:00:55,000 --> 01:00:58,199
full time internet influencer is embarrassing, but uh, you know what,

1048
01:00:58,320 --> 01:00:59,880
I try to at least be the hardest working pot

1049
01:01:00,159 --> 01:01:01,840
caster on the Internet. I think I've cleared that.

1050
01:01:02,519 --> 01:01:02,639
Speaker 2: Uh.

1051
01:01:03,239 --> 01:01:06,199
Speaker 5: Otherwise, you can check out our sponsor, Axious Remote Fitness Coaching.

1052
01:01:06,679 --> 01:01:08,920
JD is very good at what he does. He's a

1053
01:01:08,920 --> 01:01:11,440
small businessman. You should support him for all of the

1054
01:01:11,519 --> 01:01:14,320
reasons we explained earlier in the show. Again, man, thank

1055
01:01:14,360 --> 01:01:15,840
you so much. This has been a great conversation.

1056
01:01:16,719 --> 01:01:19,159
Speaker 1: Appreciate the Times for the opportunitdis was enjoyable.

1057
01:01:20,159 --> 01:01:22,639
Speaker 5: Never went home. Keep your head up. I can't last forever.

1058
01:01:22,760 --> 01:01:23,159
Speaker 1: Good night.

1059
01:01:54,519 --> 01:01:57,800
Speaker 5: Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret.

1060
01:01:57,960 --> 01:01:59,679
Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out.

1061
01:02:00,079 --> 01:02:02,199
You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great.

1062
01:02:02,400 --> 01:02:04,320
You love the host, You seek it out and download it.

1063
01:02:04,360 --> 01:02:07,039
Speaker 5: You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even

1064
01:02:07,079 --> 01:02:07,880
going to the bathroom.

1065
01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:11,639
Speaker 1: Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a

1066
01:02:11,719 --> 01:02:13,679
podcast ad. Did I get your attention?

1067
01:02:14,239 --> 01:02:17,559
Speaker 5: You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising

1068
01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:21,880
from libsynads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements,

1069
01:02:22,159 --> 01:02:24,480
or run a pre produced ad like this one across

1070
01:02:24,519 --> 01:02:26,800
thousands of shows. To reach your target audience and their

1071
01:02:26,840 --> 01:02:30,320
favorite podcasts with libsynads, go to libsynads dot com.

1072
01:02:30,480 --> 01:02:33,320
Speaker 1: That's l I B s y n ads dot com

1073
01:02:33,440 --> 01:02:33,719
Today