Speaker 1: What is up, fellasic goos. I am Dana Valley coming
at you with my one, my only, my certified fantabulous
co host, mister Grant Hughes. We're taking a break from
the look Ahead train, which quick reminder go check out
all of our look aheads. I think as we're recording this,
we have twenty one of thirty up. Every team gets
like basically an hour most of the time. Some of
them go ninety minutes. We go into the weeds on
all of them. Check those out. If you haven't listened
to us before, subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, and the
biggest way to help us get the name out there,
aside from subscribing, is leave ratings and reviews. The reviews
on Apple are still how a lot of people find
us or how a lot of people make their decisions.
So take ten seconds out of your day to go
write a review for us and give us those five
stars across all platforms. But we're here to talk something
very timely. We're gonna do our off season grades for
the Western Conference. Now that training camps are opening up,
this just feels like a good time to get to them.
How are you doing, Grant, I'm just so ready to
give out some f's. We were talking before we started recording,
and we're gonna be a little harsher I think collectively
on the West than we were on the East.
Speaker 2: Uh, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I did talk some additional f's.
Speaker 3: You did, you did, but you look, this is a
collaborative process. We have our individual grades. But I did
need I did need this. Surprisingly, I needed to be
talked down on a couple of teams I'm always negative about,
So maybe I was over compensating.
Speaker 1: Now before we get started, do you want to take
for anyone who didn't listen to the Eastern Conference grades
which are up to go? Check those out? Uh? Did
you want to take us through like what we're trying
to accomplish by handing out these grades.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll try to be more succinct than I was
on the East. I listened back to that and that
was too much talking. Basically, we start from a perspective
of what is this team trying to do, and then
based on hopefully we can establish that if we can't,
that's a problem, and then based on that we decide
how well they pursued that goal, Like did did the signings, trades, draft,
picks they made fall into step with what the goal
is for this offseason and the team as a whole.
Fair right like that, that's the bottom line, and see
his average, we have to throw that out there. It's
not a bad grade. We will give plenty of bad grades.
They'll be very clear which ones those are.
Speaker 1: And the other thing we always like to remind everybody
is we do try to look at relative to what's available.
And so it's just to use like an Eastern Conference team.
It's just the Knicks couldn't go out and just sign
all the free agents they wanted because they have to
worry about the aprons and all that. So if you
don't have money to spend, we're factoring that in to
where as a team like the Jazz had way more
flexibility than a team like I don't know who's the
least flexible team in the Western Conference as we're recording this,
they have some pretty flexible team Phoenix, well they were
they found a way to not be flexible. But the
point is, and we do try to wait, like, what
were the other scenarios out there? And so if you're
gonna go in and let's say we slam the Suns,
because of their return on the Kevin Durant trade. We
do have to get into like, well, what would the
alternative paths have been? Should be the goal? I think
that's everything. We're gonna challenge ourselves again. We're gonna go
alphabetically by division because division's Matt, would you say that
divisions matter more in the NBA than any other sport.
Speaker 3: It's so important, Dan, I don't even watch outside the
Pacific Division, for example. I just believe it's inferior basketball.
Speaker 1: We begin with the Dallas Mavericks. I could take us
through their transaction log. Mister huse. I think you started
us off last time, so I'll start us off this time.
The Dallas Mavericks. They I don't know if anyone heard,
they drafted Cooper Flag at number one. They re signed
Kyrie Irving to after he declined his player option, to
a three year, one hundred and eighteen point five million
dollar deal that actually lowered his cap hit for this
season from forty six point three million to thirty six
point six million. He has a twenty twenty seven twenty
twenty eight player option that ends up being important because
the MAVs were so unbelievably close like to the second
apron that they needed to end up waving and stretching
Olivier Maxen's prosper. They signed d Low to a two
year eleven point seven million dollar deal that's the tax
player MLE and has a player option on year two.
Daniel Gafford got extended on a three year fifty four
point four million dollar deal. He's immediately eligible to be
traded and it runs through the twenty eight to twenty
nine season. And sometimes I'll throw in what the average
of the salary cap is, because I think some of
these guys give people sticker shock. It's about ten point
four percent on average of the salary cap. PJ. Washington
got a four year eighty eight point eight million dollar
extension that runs through twenty twenty nine twenty thirty, and
it's about an average of twelve point four percent of
the salary cap. And as I said, they waved and
stretched Olivey a Maxent's prosper and after that they brought
back Dante Exhem on a minimum deal. Grant, do you
think they made the right choice at number one?
Speaker 2: Yeah, they get a C for that.
Speaker 3: Right Like the we every team on Earth would have
taken flag there it's it's cool that they lucked into
that pick, but like, I don't know how you feel,
but I just didn't. I almost don't even consider that.
It's it's great for the franchise, it's an A plus,
but it's like we're not grading that. We're grading like decisions,
I guess, and this wasn't the decision.
Speaker 1: Well, here's the thing is that you clearly don't understand
the vision. I don't understand a vision. Nico Harrison had
to will right the lottery victory into existence, and so
don't we need to account for that as well, which
would make this an A plus plus plus move?
Speaker 2: Yeah? No, I think maybe should we just move on
just a yeah? Eight plus plus.
Speaker 3: So the flag aside, I think you can go down
the list of every transaction here that you mentioned and
they're all like good to very good. And with that's
not to say there aren't risks, Like I think the
Irving deal makes sense, but you're paying for a year
of him not to play, and who knows what he's
going to be when he comes back. I just think overall, though,
still like that's a fair amount for him given where
he is in his career. So fine, there Russell's a
great deal. Like, I don't think either of us are
huge fans of his, but for for this team that
doesn't have Kyrie, like to get a starting ish caliber
ball handler for twelve million dollars over two years, great Gafford,
Great Washington, both tradable numbers. I think, I think my
so this might seem like we're trending just toward an
a which is I don't think is I can't remember yours.
Speaker 2: But I didn't end up that high, And.
Speaker 3: Part of that is because or a lot of that
is because I'm not super sure what this team's goals are.
And I also really don't like the overall build here,
which is to say, this is an enormous team that
does not have ball handling like at all outside of Russell,
and like it's cool to imagine super sized lineups where
like Flag or PJ.
Speaker 2: Washington is the two.
Speaker 3: But like I just the team doesn't make a ton
of sense to me, and maybe that will change if.
Speaker 2: They can trade.
Speaker 3: Washington cannot be traded, but Gafford can if they use
these good contracts that they've signed to sort of remake
the shape of the team from a positional standpoint. But
I don't know that that's the plan. Maybe it is,
Maybe it is, and it's been very difficult to figure
out what Dallas's plans are.
Speaker 2: Does that make sense?
Speaker 3: Like overall is where I have the issue, not on
any one transaction in particular.
Speaker 1: Right, And I think I would I would echo all
of that because the Daniel Gafford extension is one I
get hung up on to where it's like, did you
need to do that? But I guess if you're worried
about Derek Lively's health or as you said, you did
keep him trade eligible and that's a deal. But like,
I don't know if teams are tripping over themselves to
acquire Daniel. He's one of the most efficient guys around
the basket, but he's also on a team now where
like he's one of those guys and him and Derek
Lively like they need someone to get even Ivie Davis
is someone who's best position when someone gets him the ball,
who is getting them the ball until Kyrie Irving comes back?
And I think what I struggle with here is they
didn't have a lot of flexibility coming in. I think
like you could see that by the Kyrie Irving contract,
Like they needed to restructure that to like make basically
the D'Angelo Russell signing possible, Like without him, if you
would have just picked up his player option, like, they
would have had to go through a bunch of other
different machinations. My issue is, so we have to look
and ask ourselves what is the goal of this team?
And they laid out their goal when they traded Luka
Doncic to say, like, we're trying to contend for a title.
And it's clear that they haven't viewed the addition of
Cooper Flag as someone who is going to change that.
And so I need to look at them through that
bar and say, you have this massive hole on your
roster right now, and you did nothing to fill it
other than sign d Lo to a mini mid level.
That's not again, all the transactions I would have done,
probably most of them PJ Washington extension for sure, but
they weren't linked in trade. So like getting this other
primary ball handler and if you're gonna say, well we
want Cooper Flag to develop that way, hey great, I
actually think that's a fantastic idea, But not for a
team that fancies itself a contender. And so that's where
I'm the process versus like the internal evaluation or the
internal goal. It really doesn't quite align. And then even
if you take that out of the equation, I just
would have to echo everything else you say is that
this roster just doesn't make sense from a balanced perspective.
It's cues very heavily towards size and defense. And there's
you mentioned ball handling about shooting on this team, Like
there's just not a ton of that either.
Speaker 3: No, and you could, I mean, we haven't mentioned Clay Thompson.
That's not an off season thing. But like he's he
obviously provides shooting, but then like he's not someone that
you can use to guard anything other than like a
four these days, and the whole roster's populated with guys
that should be guarding fours and five, so it.
Speaker 2: May be difficult to get shooting on the floor in that.
Speaker 3: Respect and maintain the defense that you're you're trying. So again,
it's just a fit thing.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: We're negative, I guess overall, but as we'll see here,
you want to jump to the grades unless you have
anything else to add.
Speaker 1: No, it sounded like we went from sounding like an
A plus to like an f right we actually.
Speaker 3: You game would be I game would be minus it's
and it's I think we're pretty much aligned on you know,
if you itemize the whole thing individually, these transactions are all.
Speaker 2: Like pretty good.
Speaker 3: It's just together it produces a team that is maybe
trying to win now but also later and isn't really
positioning itself to be great at either of those respects.
So it's just a kind of a global like I
don't like shrug, I don't know what are you guys doing.
Speaker 1: And the other thing too, is just like if I
were the Mavericks. And again the fact that they still
got a B for me while factoring this in is like,
this is not what I would be doing. Is like
Cooper flag is the timeline. I would have stripped it
down and trade. Yeah, so that's again that factors in.
But they didn't make a bad move though, Like that,
what would be your least favorite move from them of
the offseason?
Speaker 3: It might be Gafford of the I mean yeah, my
least favorite move again would be like the one they
didn't make, which is to get more ball handling or shooting,
get more guards.
Speaker 1: Do you want to take us through man this team,
the Houston Rockets.
Speaker 3: You took Dallas, so I'd have to read this one.
So they signed Ammyodoka to a multi year extension. Well deserved.
There kind of turned things around. Big transaction. Traded Dylan Brooks,
Jalen Green and number ten which became come on Malwatch
and a twenty six second rounder to Phoenix for Kevin Durant.
That also included sending out the fifty ninth pick and
a twenty thirty one second plus some cash. Extended Jabari
Smith Junior for five years and one hundred and twenty
two million dollars with no options on that deal. Signed
Dorian Finney Smith for four years at fifty two point
seven million. Most of the non taxmid level went to
that deal. Only two of those four years are guaranteed, though,
so the full guarantee numbers twenty six point one million.
They re signed Steven Adams three years thirty nine that
declines a year over year. They turned They declined their
team option on Fred van Vliet for forty four and
a half million, brought him back for two years at
fifty with a player option for twenty six twenty seven.
They brought back Jeff Green Jay Shontate Aaron Holliday on minimums.
They signed Josha Kogie to a minimum. They also brought
back Quint Cappella old friend three years, twenty one point
one million that was technically rolled into the Kevin Durant trade,
which got very complicated. They also traded Cam Whitmore to
the Wizards for the Bulls twenty six second rounder the
Kings twenty nine second that morphed into a three teamer
in which Mohave King number forty seven two years ago
was also moved, and they created a three and a
half million dollar trade exception which they can use to
maybe replace Fred van Fleet.
Speaker 1: No, I don't know, they can't because they're too close
to going over the first a bridge.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was the real wrench in the works, the
van Fleet injury. So Dan a very busy offseason, kind
of like sprinkled in every kind of transaction you'd want,
from extension to free agent signings to trades. What jumps
out to you most here?
Speaker 2: Or is it even.
Speaker 3: Possible to talk about an individual transaction without mentioning the
like monkey wrench that is the van Fleet injury.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we'll have to dig deeper into the van
Fleet injury in a second, but I think the I
mean the Kevin Durant moved, they were good enough to
make it, and I don't think it was even if
you thought that Kevin Durant might want to leave after
this season. I've just I know what the number ten
pick was in there, but I look at what they
gave up like I probably would have made that trade anyway.
So that sticks out. But I think what's stuck out
even before the Van Fleet injury is then really over
indexing on not point guards or ball handlers. And as
a fan of Reed Shepherd, I thought that was okay.
But now when you have the Van Vleet injury and
you're left with Aaron Holliday or again, I really like
Aman Thompson, but he's not like the ball handling isn't like,
let's if you need to slow down the offense and
crunch time at any point and go up against the set,
he's so fast it might not matter. So we're gonna
get more information on him. Read Shepherd, Albert and Shangoon.
But it did stick out to me, and it was
even when they made the Capella trade, it was okay,
So they want to play a lot of bigs, like
even when Adams and Shangoon aren't on the court together,
And I think that you could have quibbled over again
even before the VanVleet injury, like we needed to bring
in Josha Koge and Jeff Green, like all those guys
needed to come back, Like why not use a minimum
on either someone who's more of a shooter or someone
who like Malcolm Brogdon for this team right now might
have looked brilliant. So I found that stuff curious. But
when you're looking at the value, like the extensions, what
you gave Steven Adams, what you gave to Barr Smith,
you and your the Dori Ifinny Smith deal is like
feels like kind of a steal. So I really like
their offseason, but it's tough to square away now, Like
how do we divorce it from Okay, well, what happens
now that Fred van Vleet is probably gonna miss a
off next year?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you have to divorce it because like
we're not we can't be in the business of grading
injuries that happen after all the transactions are over, and
if you if you imagine van Vliet is healthy, I
think I'm surprised you weren't even more positive about it,
but like they set it up so Read Shepard is
the backup point guard, Like that's just what and you
were what you're looking at, and then you trust your
tertiary ball handling. I guess you'd say to some combination
of Thompson and Shanngoon who can run some stuff. Not
a point guard, obviously, but you can run some things
through him, and then Aaron Holliday is like your fourth
or fifth.
Speaker 2: Ball handling option.
Speaker 3: Like I'm I think that's fine, and probably I think
it serves the need that this team had to like
put Sheppard in a position where he's gonna play.
Speaker 2: Now he really is in a position where he's gonna play.
Speaker 3: But I think I think it was a positive that
they didn't go find another Aaron Holiday type just as
like extra insurance, because I want Read Shepherd to play.
I don't know if I want him to play as
much as he's gonna have to do this year, but
I do think that should have been a priority of
like let's not get more stuff in the way of
him than we have to. So I don't view going
into the season with with even with Van fleet. What
you might say limited point guard options, Like I think
that was that I would I think, honestly, I would
have been fine doing the same thing. And then the
rest of these deals, like I love the Jubari Smith deal.
I'm probably too high on him, but I think that's
a great rate for someone that you know, maybe he's
never gonna be able to dribble, but he's I think
he's gonna make threes. I think he's gonna be able
to play center. That's just like that feels below market
to me for what he can be. So overall, yeah,
this was a phenomenal offseason. The price was so right
for Durant. Whatever happens, like, that's just a price you pay.
Speaker 1: To be clear, I meant, I meant it more post
and we're gonna have to talk about uh van vleet
in a second. I was talking about more from a
shooting perspective, because that would be a way to obviate
some of the concerns about the ball handling. Now, but
I do agree with you because in my head, I'm like, well,
Brogdon can kind of play both guard positions, but one
is he healthy and two they extended him, so you
hope that they're on the same page, but like, was
this about we're taking as many clubs out of em
Udoka's bag as possible. So Dat reed, Shepherd does have
to play and that's you know that that's kind of
a bug, but it's also a feature of their Ausse said, look,
you're I think we should just talk about this now.
So let's before we give our grades, let's let's talk
about the Fred van Vliet injury. I well, I want
your thoughts on it, because you don't think this team
is really like you think they're going to be fine
for the most part.
Speaker 3: I I think maybe it's being a little contrarian, but
like I really from the moment the injury happened, I
thought it was at the reactions were deemed hyperbolic to
me of like, oh, they're screwed.
Speaker 2: They're not contenders anyone.
Speaker 3: It's like, well, we thought they were like a fringy contender,
or at least I did. Maybe that was the problem
is I wasn't one hundred percent they were, Yeah, you know,
maybe like thirty five wins. No. I I just to me,
like van Fleet matters, and certainly everybody close to the team.
Maybe maybe we should put more weight on this is
like this is a big deal because he's just he's
a defensive pess.
Speaker 2: He handles the ball. You know, they don't have a
lot of those guys.
Speaker 3: He can shoot it, but like I don't know, the
offense wasn't good with him.
Speaker 2: In the half court last year.
Speaker 3: Like he's it's not like you know, the Rockets had
plenty of scoring issues last season with him on the team.
So like, unless you're prepared to say that, there's like
the bottom is going to fall out even more, which
I don't really think because I think you can redistribute
some of that stuff to other players. I think you
should expect Thompson to be a lot better. Like you,
I don't know, I'm building a straw man. But it's
like you don't get to say Thompson is a potential
All NBA player if he can you know, if a
few things happen like learn how to shoot, and then
also say like, oh, this is this is catastrophic, Like I.
Speaker 2: Just I don't know.
Speaker 3: I guess I'm high enough on Shephard Thompson, Shingoon Smith
all getting better to say that, Like I don't know.
At worst, I think the offense will be as good
as it was last year.
Speaker 2: Without Van Vliet.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I just I think I get it like they this
is a team that had like Van Vleet's qualities and
short supply. I just think in the aggregate they're gonna
be as good or better than they were last year,
just because of all the young players that are gonna
be put into bigger roles in that I believe will improve.
Speaker 1: I worry about it less from a regular season perspective
to where I think they can be as good or
better than they were last year. But even Fred van
Fleet you mentioned, okay, the offense had struggles with him
at points, Okay, but now you're going from jail and
Green to Kevin Durant, and Fred van Fleet was one
important in making stuff work for Kevin Durant in terms
of like his threats like off the ball, and also
just being able to play him alongside Aman Thompson, giving
you another even if he if you don't consider him
a reliable spacer, he's someone who defenses are going to
guard from beyond the arc. And removing that from the
rotation is how many of these players on the team
are teams gonna be worried about guarding from beyond the arc.
Right now there's KD. There's I would to say they'll
be worried about Reed Shepherd because I think that he's
gonna be like a future Hall of Famer. But after that, like,
and I mean worried. I'm not talking about Oh look,
Jabari Smith like shot thirty nine percent on mostly wide
open threes. The same thing with DFS. So what do
we put it at three guys? Let's say, and like
that could be a problem for me when you're looking
at their playoff offense, we've seen that like KD isn't
gonna be able to carry these postseason teams, like and
he's had a little few more struggles against double teams.
I'm not saying Fred Van Fleet was gonna be the
difference between Kevin Durant getting doubled or not. But what
are teams gonna do if it's Read Shepherd and Kevin
Durant on the court versus Fred Van Fleet and Kevin Durant.
It feels like they're going to have easier decisions to make.
They're gonna zero in on Kevin Durant. So that's I
think the regular season this team is gonna be fine.
They're still deep, the defense is going to be harrowing.
But now you're so married too. I would say specifically,
Shanghu needs to be better, more efficient, but like I'm
and Thompson and Reed Shepherd kind of both need to pop,
or I'm and Thompson needs to take offensive steps forward
and Read Shepherd needs to pop. Otherwise I don't know
what this team is in the playoffs. It's okay, cool
you got a top four Western Conference seed, but you
did that last year and you got bounced in the
first round. And the other thing, too, is even if
they get a top like, the margins are always so
slim in the West, it feels like between the top
six or seven, or at least two through six or seven.
That like, I could I understand why people are saying
they don't view them as a title threat anymore, because
I look at it and say, yeah, this team could
win sixty regular season games still it wouldn't shock me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Without the Van Vliet element of their offense, I would
need to know what Reed Shepherd looks like, what A'm
and Tooms it looks like before I could even identify
a team that i'd feel a projected playoff team that
I feel super comfortable with them badly against in the
first round.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's all fair. I mean, like.
Speaker 3: There's no argument that, oh, this is objectively a good
thing that because Shepherd, you know, Van Fleet was in
his way, or I just think that the drop off.
Look again, Van Fleet's a small guard. I think this
is going to be his age thirty one season, so like,
and he didn't shoot.
Speaker 2: The ball well last year.
Speaker 3: You're right, he would get guarded and that matters, maybe
more than the three point percentage than the actual number.
But I do think that you could expect similar or
worse production from him going forward. And I think there's
a case to be made that, like, while the Rockets
will have these issues with spacing with half court offense
that they already had that empowering guys like Thompson and
Shangoon and Shepherd and Smith and maybe whoever else, like
they could there's a scenario where they are better but
in a different way, where it's like they get even
more offensive rebounds, they create even more turnovers, they you
know what I mean, Like, it's not good. The Van
Vliet is hurt. It doesn't make the Rockets better, but
I don't. I really am not persuaded by the argument
that this fundamentally knocks them down a tier.
Speaker 2: I think that's maybe where I bump.
Speaker 3: On on on on the whole issue is like, so
I just think there are ways for them to make
up for this.
Speaker 1: Well, since you feel that way, and this has to
be a trade deadline thing, because they just don't unless
they're gonna trade Kevin Duran, Ralprinschang Gun Like, they don't
have players who are making real money to trade and
I don't know what the Let's say they were willing
to give up Tari Easton because he's extended, you know
as well they don't want to pay him when you
look at the money he makes, Like who is the player? Like,
are you doing a tar? Are you offering a Tari
Eason for like Scottie Pippen junior swap? Assuming that works?
Does that do anything for you? So if you're the Rockets, though,
how do you square this away? Are you doing anything
at the trade? Well, let's let me free with this way.
Are you more likely the Rockets to make a trade
at the deadline if things are going well or if
they're not going as well as you expected.
Speaker 3: Uh, I mean, I guess that's kind of related to
like how long do you intend to be in the
Kevin Durant game for Because if it's like we're gonna
have this, we're gonna extend him, or we're gonna keep
him around for a couple more years, then if things
are going poorly, you probably do double down with the
trade to try to like make the current version of
the team better, you know what I mean, if that
makes sense. But whereas if it's going really well, like
I don't know, maybe you just let it ride.
Speaker 2: And it's hard. It's hard to say.
Speaker 3: I do think obviously the injury means that they're gonna
be more likely deadline players than they were otherwise, But
it's just hard to say. Like I think to your point,
it is difficult to imagine that they're gonna be an
awesome half court offense and the shooting is great, you know,
before the trade deadline. So just generally there's gonna be
maybe some things to address. But like as you also said,
you're not really flushed with the kinds of salaries that
you would want to use to up upgrade this roster.
Speaker 2: In a short term way.
Speaker 3: However, they've got the picks, right, They've got they can
make if you can just get to the numbers. And
maybe that involves Van Fleet, which would be like that
would suck, That would be kind of a shitty.
Speaker 2: Look.
Speaker 1: I think if he has he has an implicit no trade,
I think too.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, it's a two year deal and only one.
Well it's a player option. I can never remember if
if that, yeah, you're right, one guaranteed year. You have
an implicit no trade.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I assume we'll be talking about them as as trade candidates,
just because it's kind of an obvious thing.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: What is the I'm just gonna throw a couple of
names out there, and I'll start here. If it was
just if you could build picks around Fred van Vliet
and get Derek White. Is that enough of offensive juice?
Or is that he's too much of an off ball guy?
But in a way.
Speaker 3: That's I'm always trading for Derek White, Like I figured
you would say that. What the name that I uh
jump to mind is like a lower level one is
like Colin Sexton, Like you know, the Hornets will be
happy to move him for like a second or something
and matching salary, just someone he's a forty percent three
point shooter, Like he's not really a point guard. But
if what you're looking for is spacing and like I
think Colin Sexton could do that. There's there's a lot
of names at that level.
Speaker 2: I think they'd be fine.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought, I don't know what another sething just
in name Celtics like Peyton Pritchard will be interesting, but
I don't know what they want, like to get off,
like to get off like it's a bad deal to
give up Peyton Pritchard. It's like that would be and
it's interesting to see like what they don't need to
go after Anyone's like, oh they needed they need to
be the Tree Young team or something that just to
me clearly overstates the situation. Yeah, but I don't know,
Like I'm trying to think of like the name, like
the middle of the pack name, because I do think
ka White. Oh then you gotta worry about his next
deal though, But maybe that means you're able to get
him cheaper. Kobe why would be interesting? Yeah, that but
to your previous point, what does that mean for read Shepherd?
If you're acquiring someone like that, like Derek White is
not supposed to be like running the offense necessarily, so
using him as the analog, it's okay, like Read Shepherd
could play with him. But if you bring in Kobe
White not supposed to run the offense anyway. But I
don't envision a lot of Read Shepherd and Kobe White
minutes under Emil Yudoka.
Speaker 2: Uh No, seems unlikely.
Speaker 3: But again, if Shepherd is who he's supposed to be, like,
I don't know, we might not even we might be
overblown this in a big way. Right, If Shepherd is
who you think he's gonna be, right, then this is
the great off.
Speaker 1: Rip, though we don't know so which Now, final two
questions on this. If you're Kevin Durant, had you had
previous knowledge of the Fred van Fleet injury, which you
still wanted to go to the Rockets.
Speaker 3: I mean, there's still a lot to recommend the Rockets
even without Van Vleet, But you can't. We can't pretend
like that would have that would have been a factor. Well,
I don't know what his alternatives were also, uh but
but yeah, likeda Van Vleet being there. I think is
definitely a plus, right, like he's that's of course that
would have been a factor for Durant.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm just I was curious what you were going
to say because you didn't say that the van Fleet
you to be clear, you did not say van Fleet's
injury was a good thing, but you said it really
doesn't damage their championship equity. And so it comes down
to if you feel that way, like how much a
part of Houston's appeal was tied to Fred van Fleet
For Kevin Durant.
Speaker 2: Again, that's my opinion.
Speaker 3: Kevin Durant probably has a higher opinion of his importance
maybe than I do.
Speaker 2: Again, I want to I.
Speaker 3: Want to say that, like, I don't think it damages
their championship equity to the degree that everyone is saying
it will.
Speaker 2: Like it's just oh, they're done. They're not. They can't.
Speaker 3: It's like I don't know, first of all, were they
title contenders like in you know, Capital T, Capital C
before maybe?
Speaker 2: Uh, But it's just like it doesn't knock them down
the level that I think it's being made out to.
That's all. That's all.
Speaker 1: YOA would be such a Rockets player, can't see the
team Andrew Nemhart would.
Speaker 2: Be such a Rockets player, big time.
Speaker 1: Uh. And the final question I have on this is,
if you're the Rockets and you had prior knowledge of
the Fred van Vleet injury, are you going and trading
for Kevin Durant anyway? Are you viewing this year as
more of a what you're talking about of an extra
feeling out process with Ana Thompson with Reed Shepherd, That
to me is.
Speaker 2: The more interesting question.
Speaker 3: Doesn't it seem like it would have been very easy
for Houston to just say, like, we got a million
awesome young players, let's let him cook this year. I
think I think maybe that would have been more on
the table.
Speaker 1: I do wonder if it would have changed the contents
of their package to where would they have wanted to
have kept Jalen Green just to have them so, I
don't know, but he was so important to matching the
salary that you so. But I think I don't think
it would have stopped me because I am so high
on all the other players. But it does become sort
of a different timeline thing to where's hey, like we're
gonna compete this year, but like before we're Because even
if you don't think Van Fleet was that important to the
championship equity. If Reed Shepherd is who I believe him
to be, which we all know that he's going to be,
is that gonna happen immediately or is it gonna take
he needs this? Like who who just comes in The
better bet would be Aman Thompson is just a top
fifteen NBA player by the end of next season because
we have more sample size.
Speaker 3: Or Shanoon for that matter, Like that's that's not off
the table at all.
Speaker 2: Like he's so stupid.
Speaker 3: He's like twenty two, stupidly young still so like or
maybe twenty three I should know that. Yeah, No, there's
there's avenues for the Rockets to be much better that
have nothing to do with Van Vleet or Duran honestly.
Speaker 1: So let's get to our off season grades. What did
you give him?
Speaker 3: I gave an a We just all the transactions were awesome,
Like they've made great moves. It just the van Fleet
injury sort of as we've just spent time discussing changes
how they look in the aggregate, But like find me
the move maybe Capella, but that's not like three years,
twenty one million, that's not I'm not gonna let that
knock me down.
Speaker 1: From an A, I went to an A minus because
I understand why you need it to trade can't win more,
but to only get two seconds for him kind of blows.
And then also I had some small issues with the
roster construction even before the Fred Van Fleet new so
clearly it wasn't weighted heavily because we both finished in
that a territory for them. We are on to our
next team, which is the Memphis Grizzlies, who hired Tumasislow
officially as their permanent head coach, and then they traded
Desmond Bane for Cole Anthony Contavious Calbo Pope, the number
sixteen pick, which became Jon Hanson a twenty twenty six
first via Orlando Phoenix or Washington a twenty twenty eight first,
a twenty twenty nine first round swap, and a twenty
thirty first. They then traded that number sixteen pick, which
became Young Handsome and Orlando's twenty twenty eight first, Atlanta's
twenty twenty seven second in Sacramento's twenty twenty eight second
to Portland for number eleven Cedric Coward. So that is
they gave up number sixteen, a first round pick, in
two additional seconds to move up five spots. They bought
out and stretched the final guaranteed year of Cole Anthony's salary.
He will now be on the books for three point
seven million through twenty twenty six seven twenty twenty eight,
they renegotiated and extended Jaron Jackson Junior. His total commitment,
including this season, is now five years, two hundred and
forty million. They raised this season's salary by eleven point
six million dollars. His actual extension comes out to four years,
two hundred and five million. There's a player option in
the final season and it will average about twenty eight
point eight percent of the salary cap. They signed Ty
Jerome to a three year twenty seven point seven million
dollar deal that was the room exception and it includes
a player option in the final season. They signed Cam
Spencer to a four year ten point four million dollar
deal team option in year four. They re signed Santi
al Dama to a three year, fifty two and a
half million dollar deal that has a team option as well.
In the final season. They the most important move they
made was signing Jock Landale to a one year minimum contract.
They also drafted Javon Small and number forty eight. He
signed a two way and they traded number fifty six
to Golden State for number fifty nine, which became Jami Mayshack,
along with the rights to Justinian Jessup who was draft
in two thousand and one grant did you Care? And
a top fifty protected twirt two second round pick. How's
that for a transaction? What did what? This was one
of the harder off seasons for me to make heads
or tails of Where did you land on it?
Speaker 3: I think just starting with the Bain trade, We've talked
about this plenty, you just say yes. I think with that,
with that many first on the table and and Baine
not being an All Star and making what he makes,
I'm I'm not like leaping at that, but I think
ultimately that return is just it's good enough for a
player of Bain's caliber where you you're okay with that.
I think the Jackson negotiation, the Jackson deal, that's that's
market rates.
Speaker 2: That's fine.
Speaker 3: I love getting team options on al Dama and Spencer,
and I think just the numbers for Aldama three for
fifty two, that's that's I mean he's gonna matter. I
like the front course shooting he provides theoretically, don't know
of how I feel about the What did you think
about the Ty Jerome signing specifically, because like you have Jaw,
you have Scotty Pippen junior like that, and Jerome I
think didn't really like didn't do a whole lot to
suggest that his great regular season was going to be
like viable as a playoff thing, so as like a
third guard, I guess, or may fourth maybe if KCP
is better than he was in Orlando, which wouldn't be hard.
How did you put out that move specifically?
Speaker 1: It felt like that was fine, Like you're into it.
You mentioned it John Moran like you need to get
through the regular seasons, you can get through the playoffs.
And so I think that that's more unless you thought
that Cam Spencer really needs to take on more of
a role. I think that having tied Jerome with this
number is is totally cool.
Speaker 3: And I think, like, so you're talking in playoff terms
and getting through the regular seat, like we didn't really
lay out like what Memphis' intentions were well, and I
I think if you're being really critical the bane for
picks and and you believe that Memphis is actually pretty
close to being in the contender class. The bane for
picks trade is a bad trade like that if that's
what you think, If you think that the Grizzlies are
in the business of trying to get as good as
they can right now, then that trade doesn't make sense.
I'm just not convinced. I think this was more of
a like, we need to reevaluate what our core pieces
look like and get more flexible, which is which is fine.
Speaker 1: But I think that's fine. But here's the thing is
that you said that you have or you're implicitly saying
you have your two faces of the next title contender
in John Moran and Jared Jackson Junior, who you just paid,
and then to make that trade with Desmond Bane and
not use the then turn around and trade two of
those picks to get someone who's still just a rookie
while getting up other assets in the process. It sends
a lot of mixed messages here, and I think there's
some sort of it. There's like a functional dichotomy to
the way that the Grizzlies are existing right now. It's
not too timeliney. I would just argue I don't necessarily
know what the timeline is per se. It's like, do
they really expect to be near the top of the
Western Conference this season? And if not, but how do
they envision getting there by let's I would say twenty
twenty six at the latest? Is it via trade? Are
you that high on Cedric Coward who wasn't healthy to
play in in summer league? So it's all of their transactions.
I think the Bain one is yeah, that value, okay,
take it. But then to have already knifed into those
assets the way they did for Cedric Coward, that's it.
I'm not saying it's the wrong move. It's just an
interesting one that seems like it's at odds what they
should be doing at a time when you have John
Morant and you just renegotiated and extended Jaron Jackson junior.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean a lot would seem to depend on
Coward being a player that really matters, probably sooner than later.
Although it's although again like to distinguish this from the
New Orleans trade for example, like that Orlando twenty eight
first has nowhere near the upside of of what that
the pick that Atlanta got in that deal was so
it's like, you see these two trades, like, well, why
isn't anyone talking about the Grizzlies. Okay, it's a little
different in terms of upside.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's all fair.
Speaker 3: I I mean, do you do we ding them for
for not like clearly putting forth like here's what our
goal is. Because at the same time, it's like, well,
maybe they were just opportunistic twice maybe like the Baine
trade was like yeah, we'll do that, and then they
really like coward and it's like, yeah, that's worth it.
That Orlando pick is going to be twenty fifth. Who cares,
We'll give up sixteen to move up five spots. Like,
I don't know, it feels like we're being inconsistent if
we don't really hit them for like doing some from
column A and some from columb and not having a
super clear like vision or plan.
Speaker 1: But well what I don't know, asking you what if
you can't You said at the top of this podcast
that if we can't discern what their plan is, that's
a bad thing. I'm asking you what, what is the
Grizzlies plan? What was their goal this offseason?
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I think I would say, I would cop out and say,
like to be opportunistic, and but that doesn't align with like,
are we trying to win now?
Speaker 2: Are we trying to win in two years? Are we
trying to be good in five? Like? I don't know,
so maybe we do have to hit them for that.
Speaker 1: It felt to me my read is that they were
trying to be more flexible moving forward without compromising the
product immediately, and that they did recognize what they had
in place either wasn't good enough to win a title,
which I think we can all agree it wasn't, or
that they weren't prepared to reinvest in it and then
continue building towards that title. I will dig them for
the second one because I think Keith Parris said this
when we did The Grizzlies Look Ahead. It sucks like
remember when the Grizzlies were so young, and it's like
everyone's waiting for them to get that next guy so
that they can contend with these guys as they get
more expensive, those you know, the Jared Jackson Junior, John Morant,
Desmond Bine. Now you have to trade one of them
because they didn't pan out, Like just because what did
they ever? What was the swing they ever made alongside
the three of them, they didn't.
Speaker 2: I mean, they made a lot of bad like half swings.
Speaker 3: You know, We've done the transaction tree of the Marcus
Smart of it All and all that stuff. I think
the more we talk about it, the more I think
maybe what maybe the thinking was, we're not good enough
with Bain on his number as like a big three
to justify how inflexible we are salary wise. So we
need to get into a position where we're like the
next best thing.
Speaker 2: You know what I mean.
Speaker 3: Like it feels like maybe that was what it sort
of came down to. And I think, as I'm saying that,
that is a little bit of what maybe we discussed
with Keith too.
Speaker 2: It's just this.
Speaker 3: Wasn't a title contender with Bain. We still love the
other two guys, and Jackson and Moran as a corps,
as cores I'm speaking as the Grizzlies now, not necessarily
you and me. So so maybe we just need to
position ourselves to go get the guy that we need
in that third spot somehow, And maybe we believe that's
coward and maybe we believe these picks and some of
the more moderate salaries we got are the way we
do that.
Speaker 1: I don't know I would say if I had to
sum this up in like a word or two, I
would just call this offseason non committal, which I feel
even though they paid Jaron Jackson Junior over the long
term and that, by the way, John Rant's extension eligible
and get one. So I don't think that there's a
problem in what they're doing. I just don't look at
it as this offseason home like they were brilliant and
they were ahead of the eight ball or anything like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would call it noncommittal, but I don't want
to be tied down to one word, so I won't
uh us right, both of us just what.
Speaker 1: It funds like we just I'm sure people we mad.
We kind of just slammed them, and we gave them
an average I don't know what the above average move was.
I guess you could argue I like the Cam Spencer
deal like the Bain deal. Is that the closest thing
to like? Oh, they they made an above and you
know how I feel about having to like use cap
space to pay your own players before their due. I
understand it builds goodwill, but that's also money you could
have used to improve the team. So I think that
they're gonna be good if they're healthy. I just I
don't fully understand what the intention of is for this season.
Is where I'm at with them? Do you want to
take us through our next team? Do I?
Speaker 2: Here we go?
Speaker 1: All right?
Speaker 3: The New Orleans Pelicans, we have talked about them at all.
They fired David Griffin, they replaced David Griffin. Well, I
just say they hired Joe Dumars and Troy Weaver to
make decisions. Your mileage may vary on who's actually calling
the shots. There hard to say they traded this is
this one goes under the radar. They traded Indiana's twenty
six first back to Indiana for number twenty three, which
became Ason Newell and the rights to Mohave King number
forty seven and twenty twenty three.
Speaker 2: That turned out well for the Pacers.
Speaker 3: That was before Tyres Halbert and tore his achilles, and
now they have the ability to bottom out should they
so choose. The Pelicans drafted Jeremiah Fears at number seven.
Then they traded number twenty three Ason Newell and at
twenty six first most favorable from Indiana or their own
unprotected to Atlanta for number thirteen. They drafted Derek Queen,
who has had rist surgery. In the interim, they traded
Mohave King to Houston CG. This is the big trade
for CJ. McCollum, Kelly LINOK and Chicago's twenty twenty seven
second to the Wizards for Jordan pool Sadik Bay and
number forty, which became like. They signed PV to a
four year deal with the second round exception. The first
two years of that dealer guaranteed. Then they sign Kavan
Looney to a two year, sixteen million dollars deal A
plus there that's an eight million flat over both seasons.
Twenty six twenty seven is a team option. And then
Herb Jones got three years and sixty seven point six
million in an extension. So his new total deal including
this coming season is five years, ninety six point four million.
That extension actually kicks in in twenty six twenty seven. Yeah, Milwaukee,
sorry Milwaukee and Nororland.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, don't you apologize. I put these together and
this is the second time I made that typo. I apologized, Well, they.
Speaker 2: Did make it a trade.
Speaker 3: To clarify everybody, knows this anyway, though, the number twenty
three and the twenty six first is the most favorable
of the Bucks and Pelicans to Atlanta for thirteen. So
because I love this trend that you're trying to start,
I think everyone needs to do this. On Herb Jones,
his average salary is going to be twelve point three
percent of the cap.
Speaker 2: We need to start using those terms. So, Dan, what
do you want to talk about first with what Roon's Pelicans?
What's good here?
Speaker 1: What's their redeeming part of their offseason? I think it's
the Herb Jones extension. Sure, that's a great I'm surprised
he signed it. I thought he would have waited another
year to like lock down more money, if like more
years and guaranteed money, because I'm assuming they would have
given it to him. But who knows, I don't. I mean,
their offseason sucks. I don't know. Who needs to sit
here and defend it, but it was I'll listen to it.
What I say isn't gospel. But I feel a little
bit better about Jeremiah Fears as a prospect after watching
him in Summer League. But if you I didn't look
at him and think if you thought so highly of
Derek Queen that I wanted both Fears, and no, I
would have just taken Derek Queen over Jeremiah Fears and
dealt with not having Fears or dealt with not having Queen.
I also just it's okay to value Queen a bunch,
but it doesn't make any sense if Zion Williamson is
still your tent poll, which is the messaging that you're
sending out there, And so I think we need to begin.
Even though we're into this, the question is, Grant, what
were they trying to do this offseason?
Speaker 3: I think I guess I would boil it down to
they had they were trying to get their guys, and
I think that's just Queen's the guy they just decided
they had to have, because otherwise, like you, you just
don't make a trade that pulls the safety net out
from under you a year after you just saw injuries
drop you to twenty one wins. Like you, you can't
make that trade full stop, but just they did. So
you can't make that trade unless Queen is someone You're
just like, we must have this player. And then even
that logic is idiotic because you had the seventh pick two,
and you could have taken this guy there and had
your unprotected first next year. Like I just so, I
just don't understand it. I even trying to give them
the benefit of the doubt. I don't know what the
argument is justifying that Draft night trade, Like I sort
of just can't get there.
Speaker 1: No, I can't get there either. And it's just interesting that, Okay,
they make that trade before they know about the TI
the previous one, about the Tyres Haliburn injury. They were
just I guess they're punting on the twenty twenty six
drafts all together was always their intention, which.
Speaker 2: Has the guy they must like. I just you can't.
You can't give up these twenty six picks. You can't
do it.
Speaker 3: If you're the Pelicans, You're built around Zion, who could
fall apart in any time. Your whole team was hurt
last year. You know how bad it can get, Like
I just giving up draft equity. Sorry, go ahead, you
were saying no.
Speaker 1: And by the way, the Jordan Pool trade to me
was bad as well. It's oh yeah, where you are
with the Pelicans is one of like the cheapest, stingiest
organizations in maybe all of pro sports. But certainly the NBA.
Why are you taking on the extra year of Jordan
Poole's salary? It was a just to get back to
Deep Bay so that Troy Weaver could be reunited and
feel so good. I don't like, I don't under I
understand Jordan Poole has more of the like off the
dribble three element plus rim finishing than CJ. McCollum is
going to have. But you also drafted Jeremiah Fears and
you have Dejante Murray coming back at some point, So
I don't know what I honestly, I look at it
more through the lens of I don't know. Are you
not planning on playing Jeremiah for years a ton? And
it's also you are you not planning on playing Derek
Queen a ton once he's healthy either? When you look
at the way the front court is populated, this is
to me, it's one of the most incoherent offseasons that
I have ever seen, because I don't understand what the
plan is here, and it would I would be willing
to bet a not insubstantial amount of money that they
traded away a lottery pick to move up ten spots
in the draft, which is just a no.
Speaker 3: No, and and I think and you talked about this
on the Pelicans Look Ahead too. I just don't think
anything can happen, like from Queen making first Team All
Rookie to Jordan Poole having a great season to you
name it. I don't feel like anything can happen here
that's gonna justify the thinking that went into the decisions
in the first place. Like it just you know, does
that make sense? Like from a pross versus results standpoint,
Like it's just insanity some of these moves they made.
Speaker 1: So it's like you and I said after the Lukadanca trade,
is that the Mavericks could have won the title last
year after that and just still have been losers of
the trade because of how much meat they left on
the bone. And by the way, the other thing we
haven't mentioned, but not giving whether they deserve it the
latitude to make this decision, but not giving Troy Weaver
and Joe Dumars the agency to change the head coach
when he is headed into the final year of his contract,
and so now he has that lame duck status that
is also not a harbinger of an organization that knows
what it's doing.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: Agree, So our grades, I would say, what a minus
across the board?
Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty good? Yeah you you went F minus. I
respect it. I went F.
Speaker 3: I just didn't have any A pluses, so I didn't
give any F minuses.
Speaker 2: This is spoiler. I guess this is the worst offseason
in the league. It's not close. So if there were,
if I gave F minuses.
Speaker 1: There's one team that I think can give them a
run for their money, because.
Speaker 2: That's a better team. I guess at least, I.
Speaker 1: At least liked the Herb Jones extension, but it just
wasn't like that's not enough to redeem everything else. No, short,
I mean, if we're having this, if we're doing regrades
a year from now, and what would Darrek Queen have
needed to do and the Pelicans need to do for
you to even think about? Okay, is it? Because even
if they make the playoffs, is that Like is that
enough for you? It's like, Okay, we only sent out
like a first round pick in the late teens.
Speaker 3: I don't, no, because of the opportunity costs, because of
the other paths you could have taken with those assets.
Speaker 2: It's like I said, like I just don't. I don't
know what could happen.
Speaker 3: I can't think of anything that would happen, that could
happen that would make me change my opinion about what
they did.
Speaker 1: Let's round out the Southwest Division with another fairly confusing
offseason from or at least it was tough for me
to grade, I should say not confusing, but the San
Antonio Spurs signed Mitch Johnson as their permanent head coach.
They drafted Dylan Harper at number two. They drafted Carter
Bryant at fourteen. They traded number thirty eight Cam Jones
to Indiana for Sacramentos twenty thirty second and two and
a half million dollars in cash. They signed Dearon Fox
to a four year, two hundred and twenty three point
seven million dollar max extension kicks in in twenty twenty six.
There are no options and it will average projected about
thirty one percent of the salary cap. They signed Luke
Cornette to a four year, forty point seven million dollar
deal that is on a declining scale and it includes
a team option on the final season. They traded Blake Wesley,
Malachi Branham and a twenty twenty six second to Washington
for Kelly Olenick. That second round pick is the least
favorable from Dallas, Philly or Oklahoma City. They signed Jordan
McLoughlin to a one year minimum deal. They signed our guy,
Lindy Waters the third to a one year minimum deal
that's five hundred k guaranteed, so I'm pretty sure he's
gonna start. And David Jones Garcia, who was a summer
league favorite for a lot of people, signed a two way.
I I think, Grant, what's interesting about the Spurs offseason
is how do you think the draft lot reimpacted how
they went about their off season and what were they
trying to do?
Speaker 3: How did the draft law or just just the fact
that they wind up getting two and fourteen.
Speaker 1: Well, the fact they end up getting two because you
had you traded for de Aaron Fox, now you're drafting
Dylan Harper, how do you think that informed how they
went about their off season at all?
Speaker 3: I mean, it's I guess what you're getting at is
like it seems less than ideal that the guy you
traded for plays the position of the guy that you drafted,
and kind of also the position of the guy that
just won Rookie of the Year for you. I still
don't feel like that's I think it's still a good
thing objectively that they wound up at two, even if
like we're probably gonna be talking about the guard glut
here what was the Phoenix one?
Speaker 2: Like a thousand years ago.
Speaker 3: It's like, Oh, they have Isaiah Thomas and Goran Dragic
and some third guy who I can't remember. Eric Caruso
shout out, Eric bludsoe, uh, how's it gonna work? Like
we'll probably be talking about that for a while. I'd
still just like, again, we're not giving them positive grades
for lucking into number two, but that's still better than
the alternative.
Speaker 1: I guess I wasn't saying that having number two is
potentially a bad thing. I was just wondering that had
they not gotten number two, let's say they'd gotten wherever
they were projected to land, would they've been more likely
to look at at trades to make themselves Because in
my head, I actually think that Dylan Harper having that
draft pick and this is probably the correct response by
the way, sort of forced them to be a little
bit more restrained. Now this is the spurs they might
have always done that, but I think when you land
with a number two pick, I feel like it prompted
them to be more restrained than they ultimately were going
to be had they not landed inside the top three
or four of the draft order.
Speaker 3: That's interesting because what I was gonna say is based
on what they did, which I would describe as measured
more or less for all of their moves this offseason,
that maybe that's what they were gonna do all along regardless.
It's just like, because the alternative is we swing a
deal to try to get another player of the life
like fox Cat level. Now, you know, and I don't
know if that was ever really in the cards. Hard
to know, right, Like, it's just we can't. We can't
know the road not taken overall though, Like measured is
the word I keep coming back to, just like, yes,
you take Harper at too, Carter br I think we
both really like Carter Bryant. If defensively offensive, yeah, if
he can do anything on offense, that's a player. And
then like the Cornett deal makes total sense, great number
team option. You can use him with Wemby, I think
that's fine. Or he's the best backup Wemby's had in
a while or ever, I say it a while, like
he's been.
Speaker 1: Around for it.
Speaker 2: In his storied career.
Speaker 3: Uh yeah, so that you know there there's not a
lot of fireworks here. I do think we should talk
about the Fox deal. No options is good. The thirty
one percent of the cap. I'm really like, could they
have was there some room here to I mean, this
is probably a situation where the deal was agreed to
when they traded for him, But I would have been
a lot of a lot more positive on their offseason
if they've been able to get this number down just
a little bit, because I I don't know.
Speaker 2: I think Fox is a really good player.
Speaker 3: I just it's hard for me to imagine him being
the best possible option at number two, you know, behind Wimby.
Speaker 2: What are you okay with the deal? No options is nice?
Speaker 1: I guess yeah. I'm I'm still curious like the trade itself,
the deal is probably going to be close to fine
he was. I've mentioned this many times, but like I'm
viewing like him and Trey Young is sort of these
flashbowl moments of Okay, what players will still get potential
max contracts. I'm with you in the sense that the
deal was probably agreed to when they made the trade.
I'm I'm just curious how much did they like the
Aaron Fox's fit on the roster versus, well, he's not
costing us too much and he wants to come here,
and that's why it felt like he was sort of
a matter of convenience star acquisition rather than one that
they actively target who maybe even necessarily liked. I think
that ultimately he has shown in really only a season
or two that like the shooting can get better. But
I think having someone who really gets into the teeth
of defenses at least has the mid range touch can
hit these off the rebel jumpers will force defenses to
guard him in that way. One of the biggest complaints
everyone has about women Yama is that he's not in
the paint enough. And i'm't even talking about they want
him to post up. They wanted to get more of
these easy paint touches and finishes. There was no personnel
around him that was going to help him do that.
Now you have Fox, Ellen Dylan Harper, who are going
to help you do that. I don't know if like
Castle's gonna get to that point with the way defenses
are going to guard him. But what I would criticize
is if you're going to go this route, you need
to figure out a way to make sure that the
fate of your floor spacing isn't almost exclusively tied to
your front court. Because if you look at the best
front the floor spacers on this team, it's Wemby what
is it Louke Cornett? Now, like is he gonna be
taking threes? And it's after that Harrison Barnes and so okay, yeah,
you have Devin Vessel in the and our guy Lindy
Waters Now like what is Dylan Harper gonna shoot as
a rookie? So I would have liked to have seen
them gotten Like because you have Castle Harper, I'm assuming
there's gonna be three guard units, like just to not
surround like have another wing shooter on this team feels
like a miss here, But I don't when you look
at their transaction sheet, Grant is the only I guess
move that you could quibble quibble like Kelly Olynock, that's
another like they leaned into flour spacing in the front court.
I guess it would only be the Fox contract though,
is do you think they should have squeezed a little harder,
and I think they could have. I just don't know
what's the number that you would have come out of saying, oh,
like they got Like if he would have taken what
three million bucks less the season? Do you think that
makes the deal infinitely more tradable?
Speaker 3: That that's the reason I can't get one, right, I
can't get too low at all.
Speaker 2: I'm not low on this offseason.
Speaker 3: I think it was pretty good, but like that's what
you're talking about, right, like it and it could have
saved three to five million a year maybe or something
like that, and maybe as like a tit for tat
there you have to give a team a player option.
That's the only way he takes the lower number, And
we wouldn't have loved that. And also it might have
been a hey, will you take no? And then conversation
over like you just I guess you don't have to
extend him still, Like I I you're right, Like that's
the only one that I would look at and just
like just a little bit of a squint like maybe
there was more there, but but also maybe there wasn't.
Speaker 1: Look, they avoided a team option and a trade kicker.
It looks like, so they didn't come out of it,
good job, Phils. Where did you end up giving them?
Speaker 3: I give him a C plus nothing like spectacular here,
but also obviously like there's not a I don't there's
definitely not a bad move.
Speaker 2: I don't think so slightly above average.
Speaker 1: I gave them a BEE because I think I tend
to just be higher on Daron Fox than consensus, and
so I'm not. I don't think they didn't win that negotiation,
but I don't think they lost it either, And I
actually respect that they didn't try they were linked to
Jannis or all these other like names that people wanted
them to target. I like the idea of I know,
Wemby's going into year three, but Castle's only in year two,
and you just got Dylan Harper kind of see what
you have in this perimeter ball handling Cornel Like, oh,
by the way, Devin Vessel is still on this team.
So I liked that they didn't do anything too nuclear
after making the Fox trade, because I think that could
have portended them being more aggressive than they The word
you use was measured, and I think that you could
have made the argument they weren't prepared at least it
might've been formed or imply that they weren't going to
be super measured after getting Fox, and they ultimately ended
up doing that. We're onto the Denver Nuggets. I'm excited
that I get to read this one or is this yours?
Speaker 2: I think it's mine?
Speaker 1: All right? It's short, damn it? You all right?
Speaker 3: So they signed David Allman as the head coach. They
traded Michael Porter Junior and a twenty thirty two first
round pick to the Brooklyn Nets for Cam Johnson. They
also traded Dario Sariz to the Kings for Yonas Valancunis.
They signed old pal Bruce Brown Junior to a one
year minimum, signed Tim Hardaway Junior to one year minimum.
Speaker 2: And that's it.
Speaker 1: Uh. They did not extend.
Speaker 2: No extension there.
Speaker 3: Everybody's freak. Should we freak out now or do you
want to wait until?
Speaker 1: Could we? I will say, I just don't want to
default to This was the only decision he could have
made because it makes the most financial sense, Like he
could have just simply extended and then been extension eligible
again sooner and signed another one. So I've gotten past
the idea that, oh yeah, he could lock down more
guarantee years and money next season. But it doesn't you know,
you think the Koli like a year difference that their
nuggets are going to feel any differently about. Like, no,
he could have just set himself up for the next
extension by by extending now.
Speaker 2: And it's like, did you want them to force him
to sign it?
Speaker 3: Like they probably clearly? Do you think they didn't offer it? Like,
of course, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: I'm not penalizing them for but I've seen it. Frank,
it was like this was the only decision to Yeah,
should That's the only one that made the most sense.
I'm like, no, Like he could have just extended and
then extended again.
Speaker 3: Right, everybody's getting extensions left and right. So yeah, no,
this is fairly quick. I guess, like I think we
should probably focus on the trade.
Speaker 1: What were they trying to do, Grant, I think.
Speaker 3: They're trying to, you know, uh, asset manage, make sure
they're set up for like the twenty thirty four season,
Like you know, you have Jokic.
Speaker 2: There's only one thing to do is just try to
try save money.
Speaker 3: Let's talk about that, because that's so have we So
my thought on the trade was I think there's a
case to be made that Cam Johnson can be a
better overall player than Michael Porter Junior. I'm aware of
the durability, like misconceptions Cam Johnson has been less durable.
Speaker 2: I'm aware of Cam Johnson maybe being overrated defensively. I
don't know.
Speaker 3: I think the element of this that has not been
discussed enough is that everybody on the fucking planet looks
way better when they play with Nicole Jokic and way
worse when they don't. So you don't get to compare
what Michael Porter Junior has done to this point in
his career to what Cam Johnson has done, because one
had Jokic setting him up and the other didn't. So
let's just price in some potential upside for Cam Johnson
based on the fact that everyone's awesome when they play
with him and gets worse when they don't.
Speaker 2: That's all.
Speaker 3: But if this was a money saving thing exclusively and
was not tied at all to the other transactions they made,
then I have reservations about it. The Porter Junior trade
if because you give up an unprotected first, like actually
I can't remember the protections you give up first.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's no protections on that thing.
Speaker 3: So that's a big deal because your post Jokic years,
which you know that might be the case since he
didn't sign an extension, could get ugly.
Speaker 2: You might want that safety net. Do you think we.
Speaker 3: Can separate the trade from the other moves they made, like, oh,
we couldn't have gotten Bruce Brown and Tim Hardaway and
Valanciunis if we hadn't made this deal.
Speaker 2: Is that a fair way to look at it, because
I'm not sure.
Speaker 1: No, first, Tim Hardaway, this is I'm not talking to
you right now. Bruce Brown and Tim Hardway Junior signed
to minimums.
Speaker 3: No matter what, right, I'm not talking to you either.
I'm just trying to lay out this because you do see.
Speaker 2: A lot of well look what they did with the flexibility.
It's like, no, they could have gotten those guys any.
Speaker 1: The Valentiunis trade was just a home run. They could
not have made that deal without trimming the money and
just the way that they structured it. You have to
give the front office a ton of credit because if
they want, they can still tack on like they're not
beholden to a certain apron here at the moment, I
doubt that they're gonna end up like, yeah, let's take
on a bunch of cash because of the way they
went about the Michael Porter Junior trade. I have thought
a lot about the Cam Johnson fit in Denver, and
I've probably come around and I never thought he would
be a bad fit. The question I was asking is,
is giving up your unprotected twenty thirty two pick worth
getting rid of going from Michael Porter Junior and Dario
Sharich to Cam Johnson and Jonas valentiunis That's kind of
just how I was looking at it. I still believe
as the Nuggets that they didn't squeeze enough juice out
of that pick, but I do recognize that there's a
chance for me that Cam Johnson ends up being a
better fit alongside the Nuggets or alongside Nikole Jokich is
just the rest of the Nuggets. I think the stuff
he can do offensively is a little bit more intuitive
for him, whereas Michael Porter Junior became more intuitive as
time went on. But he just never felt like the
quintessential Denver Nuggets Nikola Jokic player. And if the ship
had sailed on him being your third option, then okay,
Like I totally understand this, but that twenty thirty two
first round pick. I know we over romanticize these things,
and I know the idea is, no, you do whatever
you can to win alongside Nicola Jokich. If you attached
it to Michael Porter Junior or literally any of their
other contracts, do you think that there was a move
or a player that would have been worth targeting that
could have done substantially more for them? And that's the
question where I get hung up on because if I
were the Nuggets, there's a chance that I just might
not have made if nothing better was out there, I
might have just sat on the twenty thirty two first
round pick. I don't know if that's the right decision,
but I don't know that there was also a better
move out there. And to me, that's not so they
had to make this move. It's if there wasn't a
better move out there, maybe you don't make the move.
I don't. This one's tough. I like the Cam Johnson fit,
and I love like Yonas valentutis just as Jokic's back
up big. Look at how good he was. He got
traded to the King's mid season, and they're the Kings
and he was good. So now you're gonna go to Denver.
I this is tough for me, but I think that ultimately,
even if they would have had to wait, you probably
could have squeezed more like how do you knock it
off zchnology as part of like giving up your twenty
thirty two first round pick.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, I think I don't think Michael Porter Junior
has a desirable contract, so I think generally.
Speaker 1: Speaking, he has desirable world views.
Speaker 3: This is the other issue, Dan, Like I know I
really was gonna go there. I think one you're paying,
it's a lot to give up an unprotected first to
move off of player who has been a starter on
a championship team, so by definition like he's done okay,
But like, I don't think that's a desirable contract. I
think people are fair or not more worried about his
health future.
Speaker 2: Than they are about Cam Johnson. So that's another factor.
Speaker 3: The other thing is you don't as the Nuggets have
to deal with whatever increasingly wild shit Michael Porter Junr
Is doing and saying, I think that's actually worth something,
And the fact that like I actually, to be fair,
I've only read the quotes and not actually heard him
say it, but talking at media day about how like
he's not sure how long he wants to play, and
like like so I don't know, man, Like I think
maybe you maybe you cut the cord at the right time.
And I'm not saying it's worth that that twenty thirty
two pick it It might be closer, like it might
be easier to say this wasn't mostly about the money,
Like I think if you factor in all of the
mpja's stuff.
Speaker 1: That's a really good point. I don't think. I don't
think it was a bad trade. I think it's one
that I'm it's gonna be fascinating to look back on
this in a year. Do you think I didn't even
let you answer before I can tell you rambling, Like
does anything spring to mind when you think about, well,
what else could they have done? Then? With the twenty
thirty two first.
Speaker 3: Round, Well that's what got me on the whole. Like,
I don't think Porter Junior's contract is desirable. So I
think that because and that had to be the outgoing salary.
I think if you're gonna do anything consequential.
Speaker 1: Well you could have done something like I don't know,
like scharch and nausey and step laddered your way there,
you're not saving as much money then by that. But
I here's this is where I ultimately is. I'm just
uncomfortable with how much I think that salary savings went
into them trading their twenty thirty two first round pack.
Speaker 3: And I completely agree with that. I just we just
were gonna kick around the like this is one where
it's probably not fair, but we'll do this. If Cam
Johnson is way better than MPG will retroactive, it be
like totally worth a smart move. Money was like an
ancillary factor.
Speaker 1: And it's also it makes you concerned about what it
might augur moving forward to where it's well, they gonna
make another cost shedding moved, Like what are are they gonna.
Speaker 3: It doesn't tell us anything different about the Nuggets than
we've already thought in years past. Right, they've always tried
to have it both way. They've always tried to contend
with Jokicen also not like get told out of pocket
spending wise, that's just who they are.
Speaker 1: Uh. This is all to say, it's does it sound
like we're gonna give them a bad grade because we
didn't know we're really good grade yeah.
Speaker 2: We both both of them get We got bees, and.
Speaker 1: You talked into a B play if you really are
just if you believe that Cam Johnson is going to
be better defensively and it's just more of an intuitive
fit for this roster. The other thing I didn't mention,
I would have liked to have seen them add like
some type of secondary ball handler that's not Oh, where
we gonna rely on John Pickett. I'm really okay. Bruce Brown, sure,
but even the Bruce Brown of two years ago, I
don't know two or three years ago, I don't know
if that would have been the answer. So maybe is
Julian Strather gonna do that? Like so, I think a
BEE is a really good grade, but you could probably
talk me into a B plus if you were really impassionate.
Speaker 3: I mean, end of the day, they added three rotation
players and two of them are on minimums. Like that's
that's a that's important for Denver, which really just needs
live bodies that it can trust off the bench.
Speaker 1: We are on to the Minnesota Timberwolves, who this is
my team because you got the team that had the
short transaction log. Tim Connelly Grant opted into the final
two years of his contract. They drafted Johann Berenjay at
number seventeen. They resigned Nasried to a five year, one
hundred and twenty five million dollar deal. It ascends he
has a player option in the final season, and because
this is one where everyone got sticker shock, it's about
fourteen point three percent of the salary cap on average.
They resigned Julius Randall for three years and one hundred
million dollars. That's also a sending he got a player
option in the final season. That's an average of about
twenty point two percent of the salary cap. They brought
back Joe Ingles on a one year minimum. They re
signed Boonens Highland to a one year minimum deal with
only four hundred and twenty five k guaranteed and grant.
They joined in on the seventeen SEVENTEAM not the seventeen
the seventeam KD trade. They got the rights to Rocko
Zikarski that was number forty five, a twenty twenty six
second less favorable from Denver Golden State via Phoenix, and
then three point twenty five million dollars in cash from
the Lakers, as well as a twenty thirty two second
the most favorable of Houston and Phoenix via Phoenix in
exchange for what was the number thirty one pick that
was Rashier Fleming, who's currently in Phoenix. What'd you make
of this offseason, Grant?
Speaker 3: I think this comes down to do you think rocos
Zakarski is a cooler sounding name than Rashier Fleming because
they're both very cool. I lean rocos Zakarski, so they
came out ahead in that deal a plus overall.
Speaker 1: And I think too, like Roco is the more versatile name, like.
Speaker 3: Right, a lot of more nickname options. Probably, It's just
there's a lot of hard C and K and Z
sounds in rocos Zakarski. Like that's a tough imagine that
over the PA Like when he scores, that sounds good.
Speaker 1: I think do they play Rocko's Modern Life theme song
or something with that?
Speaker 2: I have not thought about Roco's Modern Life for a
really long time. Thanks for that, well.
Speaker 3: I think one thing I want to start on the
nas read and what we don't have here we haven't
mentioned is nickand Nikhil Alexander Walker.
Speaker 1: He's you're trying to be like super pretentious there.
Speaker 2: I'm mourning because we love him and he's not on
this team anymore. It's okay. He landed in a good spot.
Speaker 3: So a lot of the discussion about this offseason was,
you're not gonna get back all three of Alexander Walker,
Reid and Randall, which two of you're picking?
Speaker 2: How is that going to work out financially?
Speaker 3: They said, you know, so they get Read and Randall back,
Alexander Walker leaves.
Speaker 2: It's not easy.
Speaker 3: You can't really separate the money because I do bump
on the money for Reid.
Speaker 2: It's a lot for even the best backup big in
the league. Are you okay with the two they they wound.
Speaker 1: Up with, Yeah, so I'll start there. I think they
made the right decision because Julius Randall is more important
to their offense. He's more of the more of an
anomaly relative to their roster, and then nas Reed is
just more of a positional anomaly overall relative to the
rest of the league than Nikkeile Alexander Walker. And I
think that's that's that. Now, they could have just kept
Gnaw paid through the teeth, if you want to say,
they should have absolutely done that. I'm not gonna weep
over billionaires spending money, so you could absolutely make that case.
What I think with the read things specifically, I do
think people overreacted, but you couldn't negotiate a little. Why
does he have a player option? Why was this five?
This felt it felt a little bit like they didn't
win any aspect of the negotiation, which makes it like
a CC minus contract. I don't think it's a bad contract.
I guess my questions lie with do you think he
can ever be your primary five? And if the answer
is no, then you probably should have pushed a little
harder somewhere.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because not just for them, but if you're like,
if you're looking to trade him, potentially other teams are
gonna have the same issue, Like so you want you
want us to take on one hundred and twenty five
million dollars.
Speaker 2: Deal for a backup?
Speaker 3: Like that's because he's not really a four either, So
like that's that's the thing. I guess maybe the simplest
way to look at it is the Timberwolves are trying
to win a title. They've been in the conference finals
twice in a row. They have Anthony Edwards, who could
level up a half level and just well now he's
the third best player in the league or something. So
you just have to keep Naz Reid because he's a
really good player and he makes your team way better
and like to a similar extent, same with Randall, like
and of the three, I guess Alexander Walker is probably
the third best player. The only case I think for
keeping Naw over Reid is the money one, which we're
gonna try not to make because who cares billionaires. But also, like, well,
you know, we've got Randall, We've got Gobert, we can play.
Speaker 2: McDaniel's at the four just fine. Baron J's right there.
Speaker 3: And on the flip side, we're not really sure Rob
Dillingham's ready. I mean, Dante DiVincenzo, I don't know. We
like him, I don't know. Mike Connley is one hundred
years old. He's gonna get worse. Like was the only
case you can make, and I'm not making it, it's
just just for purpose of discussion. Is that, like, we're
actually weaker in the guard rotation and Alexander Walker would
be more helpful there than Reid would. Up front, I'm
not super persuaded by that. I just I bump on
the number and the like you said, it, like what
aspect of the red deal did you win on as
the Timberwolves, Like, I just surely you could have gotten
it a straight five years or lower number with the
player options something like that, because nobody else. That's the
other thing. Where was the Where was the competing offers
coming from that we're gonna beat this?
Speaker 1: Everyone had the Pistons a sort of looming and I
just I don't see them like jumping through the hoops
necessary to have spent that money on him, and by
the way they would have had after them League Beasley
issues like you could argue that, like the focus should
not have been on the big man rotation anyway. Yeah,
And the other thing here too is now, if you
want to take the flip view and say you really
wanted to look at this as a super favorable offseason,
would be okay, Like by picking nas and Julius Randall
instead of NAW, you ensured that Arren Shannon Junior and
Rob Dillingham are just gonna play a whole bunch, and
you need those two to play a whole bunch and
you know what you have in them, and it feels
it's more important with Rob Dillingham like Arren Shannon Junor
feels like more of a known quantity, and I think
that he'll probably play more than Rob Dillingham will this
coming season.
Speaker 3: But he's found money too, like relative to Dillingham, who's like,
this is an investment, Yes.
Speaker 1: Pretty sach And so I think it's good Like don
Die DiVincenzo and Tarren Shannon Junior and then Mike Conley
are all still there. So there's people in front of
Rob Dillingham who you might turn to beforehand. But bringing
back naw Or having tried to make a bigger swing
in the guard rotation on the trade market, that would
have eaten into the opportunity for dilling Ham. And I
don't know if he's gonna be good, but like we
need to find out, like he's he's gonna be two
years into his carew. So yeah, I'm I'm like kind
of ambivalent to this offseason, did you they? And by
the way, they are too because they were heavily involved
in the Kevin Durant trade sweepstakes, and so that's just
I think you do that if you can, but I
don't like they clearly feel like they're missing something vital
on the offensive end, which is just a weird, uncomfortable
spot to be as a team who I think is
probably being underrated that they just made consecutive conference finals.
This wasn't a fluke, there's laws, but they still matched
to get to the conference finals. Anyway.
Speaker 2: Yep, they're they're really, really good. So let's let's jump
to the grades. Like we we both gave them a.
Speaker 3: C and and that's not bad. It's just the acknowledgement
of what we went through.
Speaker 2: It's like the red deal.
Speaker 3: You kept a good player on a good team that
needs them just a little rich, but not like maybe
you just had to do that. There's there's nothing here,
I guess. In other words that stands out as like
egregiously bad or obviously a huge win. So we just
kind of split the difference and wind up in the middle.
They did fine, they didn't.
Speaker 1: They do exactly what we expected them to do too.
Speaker 3: That's the other thing is like yeah, no was probably
gone and an he was so yeah right, very much
lined up with expectations. A team that's yours that you
were so low on when we were talking about them
prior to hopping on.
Speaker 1: I do not understand. They still need to prove it
to me.
Speaker 3: Yes, it talks to me if you've won two titles, guys,
So just we're gonna run him off here. SGA got
a four year supermax, starts in twenty seven to twenty eight.
Got a player option there. It's gonna average thirty six
point three percent of the cap. Jalen Williams five years
to forty one. That's a max extension, can get up
to two eighty nine if he makes all NBA. I
do think he's got the kind of supermax extenders where
it's like the number changes whether it's third, second, or
first team, so that if he makes third team I think,
or second, it won't get all the way up to
two eighty nine.
Speaker 2: That you can you can condition it on that.
Speaker 1: So I just agree, by the way that it's also
stupid that he needs to make all NBA again for
the escalators to kick in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, he's already proved it.
Speaker 3: Chet five years to forty one, similar, no thirty percent
language at all, got no options as well. Thomas Sorber
drafted at fifteen out for the year unfortunately yet another
I mean also also like kind of works out for
the Thunder I guess again, just like Topitch last year,
gets like a free rookie rehab season. They also traded
number twenty four, that's Nee Clifford to the Kings for
the Spurs twenty seven first with top sixteen protection. That
turns into a King's twenty seven second and a Charlotte
twenty seven second if it is not conveyed. Drafted Brooks
Barnheiser at forty four. Everybody seems to like him. He's
on a two way. Traded Dylan Jones again and Houston's
twenty nine second to Washington for Colby Jones.
Speaker 2: Who was waived. A couple seemingly minor signings.
Speaker 3: We both really love aj Mitchell back three years eight
point seven million team option on the final year of that.
Jalen Williams other Jalen Williams three years twenty four million
team option on the final year of that. Also signed
Brandon Carlson to a two way deal. Dan, you love
this offseason. You gave it seventeen pluses after the letter
A explain yourself.
Speaker 1: Look, first of all, the AJ Mitchell contract is actually criminal.
That is highway. That's a heist. Like he's gonna be
like less than two percent or three percent of the
salary cap. Or whatever it is that is someone who
is as Cason Wallace gets more expensive, or if you
need to move off of Alex Caruso, I'm not saying
he's those players. Or if you want to even move
off of Isaiah Joe, that's just gonna enable you to
do that and still have someone who could fill those
rotation minutes. I think the biggest victory for them in
all actuality was getting Brooks barn Hut No was I
don't think we're assigning enough value to how the j
dub and chet Holmgren extension shook out to not get
options with those players. I know everyone said that that's
now been standardized. Okay, Palaman Carroll got a player option
in Orlando, like these two didn't get player You don't
have the escalator language with chet Holmgren. And even if
Jay Dubb makes all NBA, by them not getting to
free agency into or having new contracts start in twenty thirty,
you're saving yourself at minimum five point six million dollars
per player if they were still max players. Now if
they're super Max eligible, you're saving like fifteen point six
million dollars per player. And yes, that's money you have
to spend eventually kicking mccannn down the road when you're
at this level, when your choru is so young and
it's so expensive. I'm not I'm not even saying everyone's
still gonna be here, but like, if you have the
opportunity to delay thirty one million dollars in additional payments
for the same players, like you've done yourself a really
great service as a team. And so to not get
player options on those extensions when you're working with such
thin financial margins within the next few years, that's a really,
really big deal. And I just don't think it's something
that I had, like a pin in that I just
don't think was talked about enough.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: No, I think the reason I was too low initially
you did talk me up, I think correctly, was just
all three of those extensions for SGA and Jadob and
Chet were like, well, yeah, of course they're going to
extend them.
Speaker 2: But you're right.
Speaker 3: I think that the lack of escalators, a lack of
the Supermax language or the tweak in it in Jadob's case,
is like that's not a given, you know, like that,
and maybe that's the players just being amenable to that
and that's just another thing. Is the Thunder just kind
of seemed to get team oriented guys, which I don't know,
maybe that's maybe we should bump the grade up for that.
They went through the rat experience once and never again
there never again. Uh So, yeah, those are wins, even
though it's like, how how big of a win it is?
Is it if you more or less gave a player
the most they could have gotten? That's yeah, I think
you do needed to think about the options and the
lack of super Max language as significant really like, but
I don't know, I kind of still tend to gloss
over those the ones that are really just objectively awesome,
and we do probably over romanticize them, Like the smaller
deals they are just like heists, Like you said, like
aj Mitchell for less than three million dollars a year
is just like this guy's gonna play this year on
a team that's a like overwhelming title favorite and he's
gonna help for three like like that's crazy that they
got him for that little And Jalen Williams too, like
he already has played and helped on a I mean,
Mitchell missed time with injury last year, but he.
Speaker 2: Was back in the rotation in the playoffs. Same thing
with Williams, like eight million a year like that's and.
Speaker 1: You know you have injury issues on the front line,
like is they a Hartenstein time last year? And chet
Holmgren's now missed missed major time twice in his three
year career.
Speaker 3: Right, So yeah, I don't know if you know, maybe
there wasn't like a robust market for any of those
guys down the road, but like those are just great deal.
Like those types of deals are how you're able to
just be like, we've got our three max guys and
we're okay with it because you've got all these other movable,
cheap like flexibility inducing deals.
Speaker 2: So yeah, great offseason.
Speaker 1: Obviously I went with an A for them. You went
with a B. Plus. I think you could look at
things like, okay, the Dylan Jones whole rigamarole of when
are they going to reacquire him based off like the
trend of previous events. There's also I really like Nee Clifford,
but there was just no space for him on this team.
We don't even know if he would have been they
might have said, oh, the Kings are interested in him. No,
we're not going to draft him. That doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 2: Red flag.
Speaker 1: So like there's there's And to your point, I think
if you're going to actually give them a lower grade,
it's because you think that everything they did there was
just no decision on their part. And with Shae. Shae
is the example. If their entire offseason was Shay's Supermax
to where it was, yeah, this is it's laid out
of every seven stone, then sure that's a C. But
it wasn't like they won. It was small victories here
and there. But for a team that didn't need to
do much and didn't have a ton of flexibility this summer.
I was gonna give them an F because they didn't
try to trade free honest.
Speaker 2: But we'll let it slide, wait till next year.
Speaker 1: We're onto This is my team, right. The Portland Trailblazers
a lot of fascinating teams in the Western Conference, especially
relative to the East, but they signed Chauncea Phillips to
a three year extension. They traded number eleven, which was
Cedric Coward, to Memphis. That's a typo on screen for
number sixteen, which was Jan Hanson, Orlando's twenty twenty eight
first round pick. Atlanta's twenty twenty seven second round pick
in Sacramento's twenty twenty eight second round pick, so again
to move down five spots. They got an additional for
Trump pick an additional two seconds, and got Young Hansom,
who is the guy that everyone believes they wanted. They
bought out DeAndre Ayton. He gave them back about ten
million dollars and they did not wave and stretch him.
They're just eating the twenty five point six million dollars
remaining this season. They proceeded to trade Anthony Simons to
Boston for Drew Holliday and then they got Damian Lillard
back Vibes All Vibes signed him to a three year,
forty one point six million dollar deal out of the
non tax MLE. The salary actually dips in year two
before going back up to the same level in year
one in year three, so it comes out to about
eight point four percent of the salary cap. He has
a player option on the final season and a full
no trade clause because the years of service to qualify
do not need to be consecutive. They signed Blake Wesley
to a one year minimum deal and then grant the
biggest the single biggest, most pivotal move not just for
the Blazers this offseason, but the entire league. Portland guaranteed
the contract of Duop Breath.
Speaker 3: Well, it's big signed with Chris Bouchet getting that deal
with the Celtics. But okay, I guess we'll just pretend like.
Speaker 2: That to happen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, on the mount rushmore of off season moves, those
two are definitely on there. This was a weird.
Speaker 3: Offseason trying to do that's the question, Dan, because Drew Holliday,
like he doesn't make a ton of sense here for
a couple of reasons, Like he's quite a bit older
than their core players. The shooting may be like dipped
and may not be a thing going forward. He's kind
of in the way of some of the guys that
they might want to be developing. Scoot Henderson particularly measured
against that though, Like and I guess you throw Lillard
in there too. It's like that that is like you said,
that is just a vibe thing.
Speaker 2: I love it. I I but like as a basketball move,
I don't know.
Speaker 3: He's just he's not gonna play and then when he
is ready to play in year two, he's kind of
a similar situation with Holiday where it's like you're a
little bit in the way and are you cool clearly
accepting like a mentort.
Speaker 1: Scary is that they need Damian little Like Damian Lillard
is probably going to have the highest off ball gravity
on this team and he's not even gonna be attending games.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that'll just hang defenders will hang out near the bench.
And I got yelled at so many times for leaving
this guy, So it is it is confusing, I think,
I mean, do we give them credit for kind of
doing something similar last year where it's like you're giving
up the bub Carrington pick for Avdia even though we
love Avidia, like we like like Holiday, that doesn't quite fit.
Holiday is way older and the Avidia thing worked out
with like that worked with Flying Colors. But you know
what I mean, like they've kind of done this before
and gotten good results, so maybe some benefit of the
doubt there. It is just a little confusing because you
did go real old and you've got this young cores,
a lot of which contributed to twenty three and eighteen
finish down the stretch last year. How worried are you
about some of these guys kind of being in the
way of players you want to develop.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I'm not super concerned about it. It just is like
incongruous in some ways.
Speaker 2: Is that kind of where you're at.
Speaker 3: It's like the pieces don't quite make sense together as
part of a coherent plan.
Speaker 1: Yeah, one hundred and I think you could question whether
leaning into the offensive identity they flashed last year is
the right move or rush to kind of read into
what happened just because they still were on the season.
I think twenty seventh in points alot per possession against
top ten offenses. Okay, and they had a big chunk
of their season. What's encouraging is there was a young
guys or long term pieces driving a lot of their performance.
But how much do you read into that portion of
the season specifically? I think what I have the biggest
problem reconciling is that even if this is about leaning
into defense or you're not trying to like you didn't
do anything damaging, it feels like you made it harder
to kind of discern what you have in Shade and
Sharp and Scoot Henderson specifically, because the spacing the shooting
on this team is so lacking that I don't think
either of those guys are truly set up to succeed,
even though Scoot Henderson got better incrementally, probably a little
bit more than that last year. And it's maybe it's
interesting also to have Drew Hoddy and Damian Lollard there.
What kind of pressure does that put him under? Is
that a good thing? Is it? Is it a bad thing?
It's not even about opfu skating the like the value
or the playing time for some of these younger players.
It's did you actively hinder what they're going to be
able to do during their court time because you you
took one of the league's clunkiest half court offenses when
you look at the spacing and you made it worse. Yeah,
just by virtue of like you know, Tara and Rose
had pointed this out to me on the Blazers Look Ahead.
The way teams were defending Anthony Simon's is that you
would thought he was Steph Curry at points last year.
And so who are they who they care about? Like
they'll care about guarding Dennyavya, but away from the ball,
who do they care about guarding?
Speaker 2: Yeah? That makes it tough.
Speaker 3: I think Devil, like Devil's Advocate case is like with
both Sharp and Henderson, which are kind of the two
guys we're sort of indirectly talking about here being affected negatively.
Speaker 1: To repair as well.
Speaker 2: But it's sure, sure, uh.
Speaker 3: Are they at the point in their careers where it's
like figure it out, guys, you know, like where it's
not like we need to we need to baby them.
You know, like, hey, you know you want spacing? How
about you guys do it? You know, like they're there
maybe far enough along where you can start to be
like a little bit more, especially considering where they were drafted,
especially considering the talent. This again Devil's advocate. But it's
like some element, some element of your spacing needs to
come from your guards and so just like you guys
have to provide it that that's that's gonna be an
aspect of if you're gonna be the players we hope
you are. You gotta do some of this, you know,
Like maybe that's Portland's stance on it.
Speaker 1: There's a mental push and pull there for me because
I look at it one way and if I agree
with that case, even if it's not one that you
would hang your hat on by saying yeah, Because one
of my cons is one of Scoot or Shade Sharp
is probably not going to close like be a member
of the go to closing unit when you look at
the way the roster is made up, well, starting is
to I agree, but starting is just like yeah, and
but then it to your point or your hypothetical point.
It's all right, especially Shade and Sharp, Like this year
four buddy, Like, if we don't think that you can
close over Jeremy Grant or Tomaty Kamara, who's Tommy Tomorrow's fantastic,
So that's not fair. But if we don't think if
we want to close with Jeremy Grant or Drew Holiday
over you, like that's more of a new.
Speaker 2: Problem than in us problem and bigger picture.
Speaker 3: Also, I'm really kind of getting into this take I
think might actually make it seriously.
Speaker 1: Like wait, where are the clouds in the walking stick? Right?
Speaker 3: Well, the thing is like, as the Blazers, you've got
to ask yourself like, well, how many really good teams
that actually do anything have spacing issues from both guards?
Like not a lot, so at least like maybe this
year is when we find out, like, all right, neither
of these guys.
Speaker 2: Is gonna do it.
Speaker 3: So guess what they're not core pieces in anymore, you know,
like I don't know, like you're gonna get They are
again far not just to not they're far enough from
their careers to not just be like babied and like
built so carefully around to like make it easy. It's
also like they're at a point in their careers where
the Blazers need to I mean, Sharp's extension eligible now
right like so, so like they're at a point where
they need to start making decisions. And if these guys
can't space, then shit like decision made. I guess as
far as like are you you know, real pillars of
this whole thing, I don't know.
Speaker 1: So this was one of the tougher grades for me
to give. I went with a C midas you went
with a C plus. I think I don't have a
problem with anything they did on balance, but you can't
take last year's spacing and make it worse. That's to me,
that's just inexcusable.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I I this, I kind of broke it down
a little bit more because I never did land on
like what the whole goal was. But like, I think
the trade with Memphis was a good one. You're getting
multiple assets there, I think getting eight and off the
team is a good thing. I think Simon's for holiday
is an upgrade. So it's just like I like most
of their transactions. Nothing blew me away.
Speaker 1: I think there's a chance this and I say this
is someone I did a long segment with it, when
I did the Blazers Look Ahead with Tara and Rose
Me and you talked about it. I think Young Handsome
is going to be spectacular. But you can't look at
that and already like giving it a eight plus grade.
We just don't know. We also don't know. They have
wat wreathed Robert Williams the third and Donovan clintond on
his team. So that's another guy where it's well, how
much is he going to play our next team? They're
your team, right?
Speaker 2: I think so.
Speaker 3: The ut Utah Jazz time head coach Will Hardy got
a four year extension, just like you gotta you know,
you gotta give him something for having to deal with
this for this long.
Speaker 1: Yo who didn't get a four year's extension?
Speaker 2: Who's that?
Speaker 1: He's Caucasian and.
Speaker 2: Tall, Dan that could be anyone on the chess uh
They drafted.
Speaker 3: They drafted Ace Bailey at number five we will discuss
that they traded number twenty one Will Riley, number forty
three e Jimir Walkins, a twenty thirty one second most
favorable of the Pacers and the Heat, and a twenty
thirty two second which is their own, to the Wizards
for number eighteen to draft Walter Clayton junior. They traded
Colin Sexton and this isn't a typo, even though it
should be a twenty thirty second to Charlotte for use
of Nurkic. That twenty thirty second is the most favorable
of the Jazz's own and the Clippers so well, who
knows the Jazz might be good by then, but that's
a decent second. They drafted John Tanji at fifty three.
They bought out Jordan Clarkson, much to Dan's delight, saved
three point six million ten point seven million in dead
money on this upcoming season's books. Then, in a three
team deal with involving the Clippers in the Heat, the
Jet traded John Collins to the Clippers for Kyle Anderson
and Kevin Love the Clippers twenty seven second and two
point five million in cash.
Speaker 2: Also from the Clippers. Smaller scale, they traded j R. J.
Speaker 3: Lewis Junior for George Niang a twenty seven second that's
the most favorable of Boston and Orlando and a twenty
thirty one second round swap. Then Martin, it was a
good while lasted. The deal it was always destined to
be waived or traded, was in fact waived. No more
kJ Martin on the Jazz. So Dan, we probably ought
to talk about Bailey first, just because that's kind of
the most interesting aspect of the offseason. Even though picks,
even ones that high, don't tend to factor too heavily,
but this one feels significant because it was risky, and
like we both kind of agreed it was the right risk.
Speaker 1: I guess you needed to make this type of upside swing.
And I would have said, like Ace Bailey for them
would have been the answer at number four. Just I
like Conkin Nipple, but like if they were not, like
you know, you take him at number four.
Speaker 2: I think the answer at four, but go ahead.
Speaker 1: Why would he have been the answer at four just
because he's a great player?
Speaker 2: Just play?
Speaker 1: So I like, this is a pick that you I
like the risk, but there is a risk. It wasn't
just sort of this no brainer decision. He was trying
to get to Washington who had the number. They were
number six. They took Trey Jones there, right, so we
don't know if it's gonna pan out, but that's the
type of player you need to draft. And then it
gets into I think that bleeds into the rest of
their offseason to where there was that joke about when
why do I Austin Ainge Wright was We're not gonna
tank anymore, and like he wasn't lying. He was also
taken out of context, but he wasn't lying. Where they're
gonna start sitting guys. They're just not gonna have anyone
who can drive winning aside from Larry Market and Walker Kessler,
so they don't need to sit anybody else. I say
that tongue in cheap, but like, no, you just wrapped
up year three of the reset, and like, this is
what you need to be doing is to get as
many high and it's not even trying to get you
now need to make damn sure you get. And they
did that to some extent last season. You've done that
to a greater extent this coming season. With all that said,
I have two points before I throw it back to
you one. I actually think the pick that I would
grade out higher just because Ace Bailey was unless you
really thought he wasn't gonna report, And I just never
bought into that. Getting Walter Clayton Junior, I think is
gonna end up being a home run for them. That
guy's offensive armory is just so deep. All the stuff
that he was kind of doing in Summer League, like
curling around screens, the gathering escape dribbles, the snaking pick
and rolls, getting defenders on his back hip. I just
I really like that pick for them, and they need
just more of those. I don't think he's gonna be
a star, but they need more of those guys who
can come in and just give you higher upside than
you might think that they have, or just higher upside
than Oh this is like our might be our seventh
best player one day on a good team. I think
he has that. I still, for the life of me, Grant,
have no idea what was going on with the use
of Nurkics trade. You gave up the better player on
the better contract and then attached to second round pick.
Have you come up with any rationalization for the thinking here?
Speaker 2: I am officially at the point where like there's something
we don't know.
Speaker 3: On some side of this deal, because it does it
doesn't make sense, like Nurkic is not a better player
than Sexton in a vacuum, like like the only rationalization
I could get to, I guess And if you're like
Sexton was in the way of of both of Clayton
and George and Collier, we got to get him off
the roster. Nurkic isn't good enough to be in the
way of anybody, like, you know, like that maybe that's it,
and that's worth giving up a second.
Speaker 2: I just that's you know, that's not a good justification.
Speaker 1: I've mentioned this and our audience are probably tired of it.
I would respect it more. The conspiracy theory that was
floated around is if the Jazz did this to prevent
Charlotte from taking Ace Bailey, and if Colin Sexton and
that second is all it took for them not to
take Ace Bailey home Runazz.
Speaker 2: Retract, retract all criticism.
Speaker 3: No, I think, like, yeah, I just to just to
throw in my two cents on Bailey, like wildly risky
pick for like every reason, not the least of which
is like maybe he didn't want to be there in
the first place. But also like, it is not a
given that this guy's going to be a good NBA player,
like at all based on his college track record, So
you're you're.
Speaker 2: Making the upside play.
Speaker 3: It's the type of thing you do if you're sort
of desperate at the end of a three year rebuild
that has built nothing.
Speaker 2: So I'm on board. I think it's the right move.
Speaker 3: The ceiling is there, it might not work, and even
if it does, like this is a the Jazz are
just not in a good spot young talent wise, Like
to to illustrate that, the Clayton pick is one you
would normally say, well, like the Sexton logic, like.
Speaker 2: Well he's now he's in.
Speaker 3: What about Collier and George Like he's kinda you can't
play them all. It's like, well, neither of those two
guys did enough to show that they're like players you
should care about drafting somebody you know to play over
So and that's I think kind of the issue with
the entire young core.
Speaker 2: Of players on this on this team. So that's that's neither.
Speaker 3: I guess that's not super Germane to the overall offseason discussion,
but it's just I'm trying to illustrate like where Utah
is and why the Bailey risk is super worth it
because just everywhere else, you're like, I don't know, Philipowski
is good on offense, sucks on defense.
Speaker 2: I don't know what he's going to be on a
good team. Taylor Hendrix, Cody William just run down the list.
I don't know.
Speaker 3: Maybe the other thing to talk about, I guess real
quickly before we give him a grade, is no extension
for Walker Kessler. He's one of two with marketing like
actual starters, like NBA level starters on this team, Like,
are you okay with them not extending him, because there's
a pretty straight logic to it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's optionality. It's either they're gonna have more financial
flexibility next summer working with his cap hold, or it
makes it easier to trade him in the middle of
the season. And I think for where the Jazz are at,
that's probably the right call. And I don't I don't
have a huge issue especially if like he's kind of
is there this understanding that if he reaches restricted free agency,
they're just going to pay him anyway. It's what the
Sixers did with Maxie, except in this case, it feels
like there's a chance they might trade Walker Kessler rather
than if Look, if you're trading for Walker Kessler, you're
going to be in all likelihood you're going to be
planning on paying Walker Kessler. So he's I'm assuming're not
gonna have a problem with it. I understand the logic
there if you thought you were close, because like there's
Walker Kesler is like a transformative rimp protector, but he's
not the difference between you being like a playoff team
and a bottom feeding team next year. So if you
thought that was the difference, I think you ding them
for it. But where do you end up with it? No?
Speaker 2: I agree with that.
Speaker 3: I think it's just I don't know how much better
Kessler would have to be for it to be like
this is a problem that you didn't extend him at
your first opportunity. But like Maxi is a great comp
where it's like Maxie was a better player than Kesler
and the Sixers did kind of a similar thing, So
he's not in a position to get Ben out of
shape about it. Yeah, so where do we land grade wise?
Speaker 2: Here?
Speaker 1: I gave it, we both just see min As look
at that. We're in lockstep. And that's what's weird is
because you baley as it was an above average pick
for us because there was risk involved. So it has
like very and there's the upside there, but right now
it's they very easily could have been scared out of
taking him and worr't. But I mean, we talked about
the Sexton deal and just the the rest of the
offseason was prided around like just creating flexibility, like got
rid of John Collins, but you cleared the deck for
some of your youngsters, which is I think that's totally fine,
But what like what about their off season was a
like a level stuff? I don't know. Yeah, Walter Clayton Jr.
Speaker 3: Maybe couldn't get anything for Clarkson, didn't get much for Collins,
didn't get anything for Kenny Martin Junior.
Speaker 2: Like maybe there's some opportunities missed there. Just kind of me.
Speaker 1: We're on to the Golden State Warriors, who are They've
got a very theoretical offseason grant. So we have listed
here the transactions that we think are going to happen
once the Jonathan Cominga situation is settled. The Witch as
of September the twenty sixth at twelve to thirty five
Pacific time three thirty five Eastern time. It has not
been so. They Warriors are going to sign Al Horford
to a two year, eleven point seven million dollar deal.
That'll be the mini mL E. It will presumably have
a player option. They will resign Gary Payton the second,
to a one year minimum deal. They will sign Seth
Curry to a one year minimum deal. They will sign
d Melton to a one year minimum deal. And they
were part they did something in actuality Grant. They were
part of the seven team Kevin Durant trade Kevin Durant, Yeah,
they tried to. At one point they traded number forty one,
which was Kobe Brea, for number fifty two that was
Alex Touwey and number fifty nine which was Jami Mayshack.
And then they traded Mayshack the rights to Justinian Jessup
and a twenty thirty two second top fifty protected for
Real Richard, who was the number fifty six pick. But
the big thing here is look before getting to Kaminga,
I think all the other air quotes moves are good.
A Horford great fit for the Warriors. All those other
guys on the minimum. If Danthony Melton is healthy, how
many times we said that excellent? Everything just just comes
back to the Jonathan Kaminga of it all. Where where
are you at here?
Speaker 2: So the wild thing? Yes, it does.
Speaker 3: Everything does hinge on him, like technically in a very
real way, but also like I don't think he's gonna
like matter that much for them this season. What matters,
I guess is like, do you get him back on
a number that is on a contract that's tradable, because
that's like why, I mean, if you weren't sure that
the relationship was done, Like the way this has gone
in restricted free agency is kind of like your final confirmation,
like there's really no It's not that there's no coming
back from this, but it's like this this illustrates the
gap between how the Warriors view him and how he
views himself. So like it just what matters, I guess
from in the Coaminga situation is how many years, how
many dollars? What are we talking about between team option,
player option, and I guess the nuclear option, which is
he takes a qualifying offer. It's hard for me to
to see there's not a ton of like daylight between like, well,
if they get him for this deal, because we know
what all the offers have been too. Which is also
crazy is how public all this has been.
Speaker 1: Like, I guess the agent's doing podcasts agency, which, by
the way, great way to signal you've got the negotiating
upperhand is to go on a podcast and say, like,
what you're willing to what you're threatening to do does
not speak to a huge amount of leverage. Over here
at Hardwood Knox, we prefer when our agents do not
do public appearances in podcasts, which is why you haven't heard.
Speaker 2: Our agents on any episodes. Just yes, once, just once
once we get them.
Speaker 3: Uh no, So like there's not a ton to talk
about because we don't know what the particulars are. I guess,
like do you do you think there's a huge gap
between Like let's say it's a obviously qualifying offer would
be a very bad grade for the Warriors, that's a
bad result, but of the other options, like if it's
the three minus one with a team options in the middle,
I actually think.
Speaker 1: I'm surprised he didn't just sign that three for seventy
five with a team. I know that you're that under
team control, but you're not gonna be there, and if
you are, hasn't something amazing happened?
Speaker 2: Right? Well? I think it's just the the option thing.
First of all. The Warriors just like wielding these team
options like weapons is kind of a boss movement.
Speaker 3: I do respect it a little bit, like they're really
really just enjoying the power of restricted free agency. I think,
which if you're a smart team, you probably should. The
Sixers are another story. The Quentin Grimes offer is.
Speaker 2: Laughable, but like, what could this just resolve?
Speaker 3: With like a two plus one like and coming against
his player option, the Warriors get him in a number
that they can trade him at, Like, I don't know,
I don't I don't know where this is gonna land.
Speaker 1: I think if he's getting like to me, just based
off what he's shown as a player, and I know
that the fit in Golden State has been imperfect from
a sense of they've never really given him enough runway
and we've just seen moments and some protracted pockets of
excellent offensive play from him. If you're giving him over
like twenty two million dollars a year, I don't also
want him having the player option to.
Speaker 3: Wield over me, that's very much their stance, and maybe
that like, why can't this just end with two years
forty five? You waive your implicit no trade like or something,
you know, something like that in that though the second
year is a player option or something I don't know, like.
Speaker 1: The whole implicit note trade with him, he shouldn't like
if he really wants out of Golden State. The next
team Mets trading for you is doing so if you
have a player option because they want to keep you,
So why'd like I like you or and then potentially
pay you? So I don't view that as just like
maybe they're playing it up because you want to make
it look like you're conceding something in these negotiations. But ye,
what I want to ask you is, so we're both
in agreement. It's the three minus one feels like the
not just the middle ground. But that's how this is
gonna end up, right? Is probably the three minus one.
Speaker 2: It seems fair to me that that's what I'd say.
Speaker 1: What would be more surprising to you that he signs
his qualifying offer or that he ends up taking like
the two year, forty million dollar deal with the team
option waves implicit no trade.
Speaker 3: I think I think the qualifying offer would still surprise
me most, okay, just because like, look, he's clearly confident
and his representation is confident at least art projecting a
lot of confidence and have for a long time, and
like the kind of player they think he can like
faking it, that's a lot of money to leave on
the table, right, Like, especially since if you take that
qualifying offer, the Warriors are gonna be like there, I
don't I don't know, They're not going to be vindictive
about it, but it's like, why are we incentivized to
feature you and I? From his end, Like, I don't
know how.
Speaker 2: Motivated is he gonna be? So it's just like nobody
wins in that hypothetical.
Speaker 1: And you know what player, I always go back to
thinking different player at different time, But like, do you
remember when Nerlin's Noel turned down what was it like
four seventy or something?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah and sign for the minimum?
Speaker 1: Yeah and so, but and I just that would be
if I'm a player or like, that would just be
tattooed into my memor which is probably why it's good
that I'm not an agent, because I just like, yeah,
you fucking sign.
Speaker 3: That well, I mean like he was a high enough
pick that he's made, like I mean probably life changing money.
It's not like generational wealth. But if you sign, if
you get like forty million bucks, then you're talking right,
and you're still you're gonna hit free agency again when
you're twenty four to twenty five.
Speaker 2: Like that seems like a good result. Now.
Speaker 1: The reporting from Sam Amock of the Athletic ramped up
a little bit with the Kings to where they re
engaged with the Warriors that package. Other teams need to
be involved. You're probably getting rid of Buddy Healed or
Moses Moody is part of it. The Malik Monk, Devin
Carter and a distant first round pick doesn't do anything
for you.
Speaker 2: Just where who do you think? Let amic know about that?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 3: Like it's clearly coming from Kminga's side because you need
something out there, and maybe.
Speaker 2: Some of those were real.
Speaker 3: I'm sure is reporting is legit, but it's just like,
come on, like, in what world is Malik Monk a
big enough upgrade over Jonathan Kaminga to just like getting
rid of Healed or Moody.
Speaker 1: We not You would have to think like can we
get him to a third team for something. I had
thought if they were willing to throw in Keon Ellis
and then you're getting Devin Carter and a first round
pick like that's and I know there was there was
reporting that the protections the Warriors want like an unprotected
pick in twenty thirty. If it is that, and i'm
the Warriors, I mean you have an unprotected King's pick
like however many years in the.
Speaker 3: I don't know, it doesn't matter how far off it is.
I think that you definitely think pretty hard about that one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we we can't create this.
Speaker 2: We can't. It's it's it's by definition. And they have
done nothing. The Warriors have done nothing unless you count
Will Richard the number fifty six pick as they kept.
Speaker 1: Honestly, that's why he's the photos. They did keep Quinton
Post so they plus Yeah, yeah, but we just have
to know it took you a while when we were
talking about unicorns in the other way.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, it's good in view him as what's more
unique than a unicorn is like a pegans centaur pegas
an alicorn.
Speaker 1: Our next team moving right along to Los Angeles Clippers,
And just to make it clear, we are. We do
not have aspirations to grade anything that has to do
with aspiration, so we will this is this is not
part of it. So they did a bunch of stuff.
They drafted Yannis Conan Niederhauser at number thirty. They traded
number fifty one Mohammed Dijajara and number sixty Luke Mitrovich
to the Knicks for number fifty, which was Kobe Sanders,
who then signed a two way. They resigned James Harden
to a two year, eighty one and a half million
dollar deal. The second season is a player option if
he opts it, though only thirteen point three million dollars
of his salary is guaranteed. They resigned Nicholas Putum to
a two year eleven point five million dollar deal that
has a player option in year two. They signed Brook
Lopez to a two year seventeen point nine million dollar
deal that is a team option on it in the
final season, and most of it was from the non
tax player mid level exception. In a three team deal
with Miami and Utah. They traded Norman Powell a twenty
twenty second, twenty seven second and two point five million
dollars in k for John Collins. They then use the
rest of their non tax payer mid level exception to
give Bradley Bealer a two year, eleven million dollar contract,
the latter of which is a player option, and they
signed Chris Paul at the minimum for one year grant.
What were the Clippers trying to do here?
Speaker 3: I mean sign a lot, acquire a lot of good
and helpful veterans and deepen the front you know, like
they're obviously on a win now timeline because you're built
your own James Harden and Kawhi Leonard. This team is
markedly better right on paper, like you've got a factor
in the age concerns and the health concerns.
Speaker 2: But a lot of these deals are like they seem
too good to be true.
Speaker 3: It just kind of makes you wonder, like are there
like what is what's the carbon credit situation on the
Brook Lopez deal? But like I guess what I'm struggling
with is like why isn't this Why aren't we giving
this the highest grade possible because neither of us did spoiler,
We won't say what happened here, but like, can't you
look at the front court depth? Like John Collins is
the first real power or forward.
Speaker 2: They've had in forever.
Speaker 3: Norm Powell maybe duplicative trading about an absolute apex of
his value going forward, So positionally that deal makes sense
to me. Brook Lopez is a backup center, Like that's
even you know for fifteen twenty minutes, Max, that's great.
Bradley Beal like has really the blooms off the rose there,
but like for the portion of the non tax MIDlet like,
that's a he's a good player still so and he's
being paid like a not quite into the bench, you
know what I mean. Like there's a ton of just
like go down, bullet pointed. All these makes sense and
are good and make the team better in the short term,
which is like all the Clippers care about. Can you
point me to why neither of us went into the
A range here?
Speaker 1: So I think for me, I look at it and
I do wonder did they mean? When you're looking at
what their core lineups will be, you are putting a
lot defensively on the shoulders of of each Zu Box
and Kawhi Leonard and now necessarily if not, but like
Norman Powell instead of John Collins, John Collins probably helps
you out defensively just by virtue of his defensive rebounding there.
And what you've now done is you've given your team
another ball handler and Bradley Beal while still preserving like
your floor spacing is probably just better because John Collins
and Bradley Beal versus Norman Powell, like Norman Powell shot
the hell out of ball for most of last year.
But to get spacing from two separate players, one of
whom is more of a natural from scratch shot creator,
I think is a big deal. There's just more risk.
I think that there their floor feels like it's high.
But we're just gonna believe that Bradley Beal is a
better fit on this Clippers team than he was for
the Suns because why we're banking on Kawhi Leonard missing
time or you just think that he'll defer more, or
you think that Khi is going to be more deferential.
This team is deep. I think that they can get
to a lot of the thing that sways it for
me into where you could probably say, like maybe they
do deserve an a you get into like their bench,
Brook Lopez, Chris Dunn, Derek Jones Junior, They could still
get to a lot of those defensive lineups. I just
it's not even just the defense, But how is this
team getting out in transition anymore? Not with any of
its base units, certainly like Bradley Beal, Kawhi Leonard, and
James Harden like I just don't like if he's a
zoobos John Brook Lopez is older, like he's gonna be
plotting up and down the floor. So I'm wondering if
they can only really operate at one speed. And again
this isn't like, oh well, they would have been able
to be so much better by just keeping Norman Powell
then doing nothing else.
Speaker 2: Not my point.
Speaker 1: I just wonder if they gave up some of their
functional versatility a little too much. And I mean that
in a sense of yes, they're definitely more versatile on
offense overall, but elements of what made the team special
just the exhaustive defense from so many different areas and
the ability to really like get out in transition at points,
because again we did see the transition frequency go up
and down a lot. That could be when Kawhi Leonard
is gonna come back, like when he came back. But
I'm just wondering if this is a team that's just
a little too old, gonna rely too much on operating
with some not so innovative base sets in the half court.
So I have some questions there, But from a talent perspective,
like they have upgraded the roster considerably.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and again we're like picking knits to justify not
giving this an a Like we both are very high
on this offseason.
Speaker 2: I lean a little bit. You mentioned it B plus
for me, be for you.
Speaker 3: For me, It's like I get weird like vibes of
like I don't know remember when like the Rockets end
up with like Scottie Pippen and Charles Barkley, and like
it was towards the end, and it's just like there's
a lot you're already like towards the end clearly, like
with Harden and Kawhi, even though Harden had a very
good year for forgiven his age and mileage and stuff
last year, you're just kind of doubling down with some
of these older guys that have had like you know, Beal,
Like who knows what Beal's gonna be going. So it's
just like the names are awesome, like there's no doubt
about it. It's just like I'm not sure that it's
the best move for a team that's already like defined
by fragility of its best players to like have a
couple more kind of piled onto that. So, like, I
actually think the floor is very low because you could
just you could have a raft of injuries here, like
just across the board. I think that's you know, that's yeah,
injuries could happen to any team, but like this one,
Like you know, Leonard's not playing half the season, you
shouldn't expect Harden to play more than two thirds of
it probably, And then like Lopez is in his late thirties,
you just got on the list.
Speaker 1: I think you talk me into a B plus though,
because I'm just sort of looking at it though, And
part of maybe where your concern lies with how short
term they are. There's just where is the risk in
anything they did other than the thing is like.
Speaker 3: The counter is, like, so what did you want him
to go find some like twenty four year olds to
be eat innings or whatever? Like that's not where this
team is. This is this is kind of an all
or nothing situation, right, like either the old guys stay
healthy and perform for another year and you're really really good,
or they don't, and so like they're too they're too
far in, too like pivot to some other crazy plan.
Speaker 2: So I'm not gonna kill him for Yeah, you.
Speaker 1: Talked me into a B plus and it was honestly,
if you want it, I think you have. You've mentioned
this before. There isn't a argument here, it's just I
don't I'm still just wondering if they compromise some of
what made them special, like overcompensated for some of their flaws.
But yeah, and honestly, what's the move that you're most
uncomfortable with this offseason? Because I think it's Bradley Beal
for me to where the money doesn't matter, but because
it cost you Norman Powell, and because I just don't
know that he's gonna be as easy or valuable of
a fit as so many are penciling in. That's where
it feels like a lot of the risk lies again,
even though the contract is just whatever.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's that, or it's it's Collins, because I think
you know, Powell had a very good year last year,
and then Collins hasn't done anything on a good team
for a long time, So we don't you don't like yes,
positionally he makes sense, but like, I don't know what's
he gonna look like in games that count.
Speaker 2: Hard to say. It's been been several years.
Speaker 1: We are on too. I believe this is this is
my team.
Speaker 2: Right, No, I'll take it. You had the you just
did the Clippers. I don't know.
Speaker 3: You know, he has to do both LA teams, all right.
So they signed Rob Point get to a contract extension.
JJ Reddick kind of late breaking news, also got a
contract extension. And if that seems weird to you, it's
because he's only been there for a year and had
already signed us. Because it is weird unusual. Uh. They
are very much committed to him, not mad at it.
I think he did a pretty good job last year.
Luka Doncic got a three year, one hundred and sixty
one point eight million dollar max extension that starts in
twenty six, twenty seven. There's a player option on twenty eight,
twenty nine. He will be eligible to sign for five
years and three hundred and eighty four million dollars if
he opts out, which he will, and he will. The
Lakers also traded number fifty five, Lachlan old Break and
cash to the Bulls for number forty five. Our guy Rock,
He's gonna be our guy forever. Roko Zakarski. Zakarski then
traded again uh with three million in cash for number
thirty six. That's a due with Thierro Duero signed a
three year, five point nine million dollar deal, twenty seven
to twenty eight team option. Jake Laavia Dan Favalley's favorite
basketball player on Planet Earth. Two years, twelve million. That's
the non tax mid level. It's a flat six million year.
DeAndre Ayden, following his buyout in Portland, got a two year,
sixteen point two million dollar deal. Got a player option
on the second year of that. Marcus Smart also a
buyout guy, two years, ten and a half million. That's
the bi annual exception. He got a player option. Surprisingly,
Jackson Hayes re signed to a one year minimum deal,
so Dan also maybe the quiet part loud Lebron James
did not sign anything, picked up his player option, couldn't
get another one plus one, so he will be a
free agent following this season. I think that covers it.
How are we feeling about the Lakers? This is this
isn't if we've said this for like every West team
kind of complicated, kind of interesting, hard to zero in here, right.
Speaker 1: And you know what, if I'm reading too much into
the JJ Redick extension by thinking if they did that,
they're really playing longer game here, because why else would
you extend him after one year? Because what is the
other logical reason for doing that other thand to kind
of lock him down as you go through what might
be a period of turnover around Luka doncic Well.
Speaker 2: You said the name.
Speaker 3: I think it's very much related to Luca, which is
to say that, like it feels like the Lakers want
to project like this is the JJ is our guy,
Like this is it like this is going to be
as like a Popovich situation where no one's ever even
going to think about him going anywhere, and so like
that that kind of felt that way to me, which
I think you tied to Luca, which is how they
want him to be viewed as a player. But yeah,
it's still is weird. That's that's like, why why are
we early extending coaches? I don't understand it.
Speaker 1: So I think let's start with the actual before getting
into the lebron of it all. We've posed this question before.
Is that to me? I read it as they chose
getting two of Jake Laavia, DeAndre Ayton and Marcus Smart
over getting or getting all three of those guys over
getting one of them and Dorian Phinney Smith basically, or
two of them and Dorian Phinney Smith. I think that's
a reasonable gambit to make. I think they are placing
a lot of stock in a version of DeAndre Ayton that,
if we're being honest, it's never actually existed so much
as it's come in like fits and burths. Do you
know what I mean to where it's even his best
season of his career? It wasn't. That was like seventy
games of Dion Dominaton. No, you never felt that way.
The stuff of bailing out at the room was still there,
some of the defensive inconsistency was still there. Again for
the money, for the short terminus of it all, I
think Marcus Smart at the Biannual, you can ask Nature,
we've burned the bi annual because and I can't use
it next year of Marcus Smart, I think a reasonable
enough upside play. I think it was they didn't have
necessarily a ton of tools at their disposal. If you
hate this offseason, I think it's for one of two reasons,
if not both. Is that you think that they should
have kept Dorian Finney Smith rather than going the direction
they did, or you think that they should have made
like some big time trade, which is just what was
out there? What was the trade? Like they even if
they had enough assets to get Cam Johnson, I'm not
sure that's the player that they needed, so you could say, well,
they didn't extend ruie Or do you like the way
they handled Lebron? That might be the other aspect of
of all this is that got very awkward. But if
we're being honest, them preserving long term flexibility is probably
the smart move when you look at Lebron's age and
the fact that they don't have another co star in waiting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so maybe I'm holding on a little too long,
but I still I still do kind of like Phinney
Smith better than like on a winner than honestly like
all three of the guys you mentioned. I thought when
you were talking about like the holding on to a
version of a player that doesn't exist, you're gonna say,
you were gonna say Marcus Smart just because he has existed,
he's you know, he has been a great player, but
like I kind of feel like we might be past that.
Speaker 1: So and his rule, Jordan Goodwin is a better defender
than Marcus Smart right now? Probably not, but like but Marcus,
I was gonna say, he probably might be. Oh you
think so Smart's probably more versatile. But if you want
like the dog, I feel like Jordan Goodwin would be
the move.
Speaker 3: Is Jordan Goodwin going to steal you like three possessions
a game with like clever stuff, because I think Smart can.
Speaker 2: Still do that.
Speaker 3: But but yeah, like he's gonna have to be a
pretty key player, right Smart on this team because you
don't want Luca and Lebron guarding anybody. Uh, Austin Reeves
you don't love as your your best wing to fend,
Like there's he's gonna have a role.
Speaker 2: I'm a little concerned about that. And aydon, I don't know.
There's reasons these guys get bought out right, Like it's
it's not just financial.
Speaker 3: It's kind of like we would like it if you
were not around anymore here. So that like that's gives
me pause, I guess on Aiden even though the fair
years and dollars are like, yeah, totally great. The only
other thing if the only I've had a few knocks here, Like.
Speaker 1: How do you like it? Any of their moves? Grant,
Let's let's start there.
Speaker 2: I mean, Laavia, I think that's fine.
Speaker 3: And like, again, money wise, I think the eight and
move is like a decent risk reward proposition, especially given
what they had at center. You know that that's something
we probably should consider. Like Jackson Hayes is back on
the team, but like, you can't play that guy. I
think I've mentioned this to you, Like, yeah, I get it,
Like you can't you're reoriented around Luca. You can't be
beholden to Lebron. And I think not offering him another
one plus one is partly the team being like we
want you here, but also like you're not the central
figure anymore. That's like felt like a little bit of
a you know, implicit message there, are we sure that
the Lakers can treat Lebron this way when there's no
guarantee that Luca's next running mate will be better than
a forty year old Lebron, Like it might take a
while to get that guy, and so like that, I
get it. I understand, like it's probably right to just
kind of say, like this has been great. You got
us a title we cannot feature like in a like
figurehead way a forty year old player. But like it's
gonna be very hard for them to find someone that's
better than Lebron, Like they just full stop, like he's
an All NBA player. So you've now put yourself in
a position where you maybe need to trade him and
it's gonna be that's not easy to do with the
salary in the age, or you lose him for nothing,
like which is kind of where he retires. Like I mean,
maybe that's it. They just know he's gonna do that,
and so why pretend with a one plus one? Does
that make sense?
Speaker 2: Like I know, I think I've said that to you before.
Speaker 1: Like they don't know that you can do better if
Lebron's plan was to retire, why does Rich Paul give
that interview or release that statement to Sean Sharani at
ESPN at the beginning of the offseason.
Speaker 2: That's what I don't know.
Speaker 1: I I think maybe I'm overvaluing the flexibility that they
still I know that cap space is overrated now, but
like they've kept themselves aside from Jared Vanderbilt, they're like
free of just bad contracts, Like everything is tradable if
you need to start stacking guys on top of one
another to make a bigger move. But I also, you know,
I part of me like respects taking the longer view too.
But I'm all you're right, Like you're not guaranteed. I
never really thought of it that way. You're not guaranteed
to get a better running made for Luca? Then who
Lebron is? Right now that running may could be younger,
eventually reach a peak, and it'll never reach age forty
forty one Lebron James's peak. That's making me rethink my
grade on this team too. You might have talked me
into a lower Lakers grade, right.
Speaker 3: And I mean tied to that is the other thing
I keep saying, like, look, we love the revenge body
like Luca did it, but like you can't, like what's.
Speaker 2: The window for him? Isn't it?
Speaker 1: Kind of now?
Speaker 2: Like is Luca gonna be better?
Speaker 3: Like I mean, like Luca's has played about as well
as a human being can play basketball, So like getting
into this like too, maybe their windows much shorter. Maybe
they know who they're gonna go, Maybe it's Jiannis or
like whatever. Maybe they know who the next guy is
gonna be, But you can't really operate on like a
three or four year time horizon with Luca because like
there's just no guarantee he's gonna be better than he's
been in the past. I know I've mentioned that like that,
that one really sticks in my head of like, Okay,
he set the bar super high, like and maybe he
just can't get back there.
Speaker 1: Well, I was gonna ask you, why do we feel
that way about a twenty six year old though.
Speaker 2: Because of the conditioning issues and the injuries and.
Speaker 1: The like, you know, like I get so I look
at it just like feels like something this, something about
this body transformation feels different. And I think it's the
confluence of circumstances of the whole thing that the way
the Mavericks unfolded the reasoning they gave probably like to
fire on him them basically fat shaming him and his
work ethic on the way out, probably resonates the other
thing that I and I'm talking about I'm painting with
a broad brush here that we probably don't give enough
credence to these guys are so young, and when did
you really start like taking care of your body and
zeroing in on sleep and nutrition. He has more resources.
His job, His body is his job essentially, Like he's
twenty six now, like this might that might be like
when it all kind of finally started, Like wasn't that
basically when Lebron left Cleveland the first time and then
he goes through that first season Miami, it all kind
of just clicks. It's like, oh, Okay, there's a little
bit of a reality check there.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I also think that now if he is committed
to and I'm not, I don't care what a player
actually looks like, like the aesthetics of it all. We
need to get past like this ideal body so far
as it.
Speaker 2: Reveals like what they're what they are and are not
doing preparation wise right.
Speaker 1: And I think that where people have been concerned about
can he still withstand the physicality of getting into the lane,
I look at it as if he's lighter on his feet.
I'm assuming that's gonna be good news for all these
different lower body injuries that he has dealt with. And
if the if the trade off is a few free
throw attempts per game, I'm more than happy to take it.
So I'm not saying that we're we've yet to see
the best version of Luca. But this idea that like,
why can't we just assume that Luca is going to
be Luca for the next seven years like we would
any other player that's his agent, as good as he is.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's a great unknown. I just I yeah,
I'm fall somewhere in the middle. Like I think it's
very possible that he wins MVP this year. I also
think it's very possible that, like he we've seen the best.
It's because the best was it's hard to be better
than he was, Like they just maybe for that reason
more than any other. He's like if you're projecting upside
or breakouts, it's like you're gonna pick the guys that's
got five all NBA first teams, Like where where is
there to go?
Speaker 1: But I guess, so my question what is your you're
I guess you would be making the case that they
could have operated with more of a sense of urgency
a little bit, yeah, a little bit. What were they
supposed to do?
Speaker 3: That's the thing like that you mentioned, like, oh, if
you if you didn't like the offseason, they could make
some like crazy trade, like with what you know, would
be the response.
Speaker 1: So that because they'll have three first round picks to
trade next And honestly, so we didn't really get into
what are they trying to do because the default should
be content for a title. But I really think that
they were trying to remain relevant while setting themselves up
for a home run swing next next offseason, not with Catspace,
but maybe via trade. And if that was the goal,
they actualized it pretty damn good. Yeah.
Speaker 3: And then but then the question is is that the
right goal? Because if you have Don Chic and you
do think he's gonna be this great, you gotta go
like you can't. There are no gap years, there are
no there you know, there are no retrenchments.
Speaker 1: Like was it what was the when you said you
gotta go? Do you remember the theme song? It was
the commercial of you gotta go, gotta go, gotta go
right now? So he just made me think of what
was that?
Speaker 2: I don't know, well, probably like an adult diaper company.
Speaker 1: I do find I do find your argument about the
Lebron thinking Luca's next running mate very compelling. I went
with a B plus and I think I'm gonna stick
with it. I think they at what they're trying to do.
Whether it's right, I think we have to wait and see.
But if what they were trying to do was remain good,
get a little deeper, improve the center position while getting
ready and like remaining lean in the sense of these
long term contracts and so you're built to make a
bigger next summer, I think they actualized it. And the
other thing too, is they got not only they get
Luca to sign. You could say, well, we were gonna
offer whatever extension he wants. He might have just decided
I don't have loyalty to the Lakers. I just got traded.
I don't need to sign. The bigger thing was is
that he recruited DeAndre Ayton and Marcus Smart. It's like
this guy is bought in, So I'm gonna stick with
my B plus even I don't do I have Lakers exceptionalism.
Is that just what happened here?
Speaker 3: If it's any consolation, you almost like talked me up
from my B minus, and so if I also almost
talked you down, I think we're about right.
Speaker 1: It's yeah. So that's gonna be one that would be
interesting to revisit. Our next team.
Speaker 2: This one is my team.
Speaker 1: We move on to because he is a disaster the
Phoenix Suns. So they had an interesting offseason grant. They
fired Mike Budenholzer. How long was he there for?
Speaker 2: Less than a year?
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right? They hired Jordan Ott. No Michigan state
ties whatsoever. That's a lie. They signed Devin Booker to
a two year max extension that made a lot of
people angry for some reason, kick in twenty twenty twenty
twenty nine and includes a player option on the second season.
They have guaranteed themselves one extra year of Devin Booker.
Congratulations for the Phoenix Suns. They traded Kevin Durrant to
use this part of seventeen trade. This is just the cliff.
We've gone through this trade like eighty times now for
all these different teams. The Phoenix Suns traded Kevin Durant
and they got back in total for the most part,
Dylan Brooks, Jalen Green Common malawatch number thirty one, which
was Rashier, Fleming number forty one, which was Kobe Brea
and a twenty twenty six second round pick. Brea signed
a two way Fleming signed a four year, eight point
seven million dollars deal with the second round exception, it
has a team option. On the final season. They bought
out and stretched Bradley Beal. He gave back thirteen point
eight million dollars, which he had to, and I'm sure
we'll get into why in a second. They will now
have nineteen point four million dollars in dead money on
their books through twenty twenty nine. Twenty thirty, congratulations to
the Phoenix Suns. They traded number twenty nine, which was
Liam McNeely but Vasile Michic and a T twenty twenty
nine first round pick the least favorable of Cleveland, Minnesota
and Utah to Charlotte for one Mark Williams and its
own twenty twenty nine second round pickback. They signed Colin
Gillespie to a one year minimum deal, and they signed
Nigel Hayes Davis to a one year minimum deal. Grant,
Where in the actual hell would you like to start
with the Phoenix Suns?
Speaker 2: I'd like to be finished with them? Is that okay?
Speaker 1: Do you just want to breeze through and get to
our what's lower than an F.
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess like, so let's maybe the Booker one.
Speaker 3: Let's start with Booker partly because that's in order, but
also because I don't know, that's kind of interesting, like
what does that say about what the what the plans are?
And maybe the question to ask is is is Devin
Booker a more valuable asset with that extra guaranteed year
than he would have been otherwise? As like, even though
they're not going to trade him, if we're just going
to view him as like, well, what would it would
a team be willing to give up more for him
with an extra year at whatever seventy.
Speaker 2: Million dollars or something on the end of this deal.
I don't know, Like it's it's he was on books
for a long time either way, So this just felt like.
Speaker 1: Much money and who cares?
Speaker 2: Honestly, Like I was, I was disappointed. I wasn't mad.
I was disappointed.
Speaker 3: It was like Devin Booker, Yeah, in Booker because it's
like you can't be like you need to get out
of the business here, Like what are you seeing that
makes you optimistic?
Speaker 2: Why do you want to be here?
Speaker 3: And I get it, like they offer the money, you
take the money, and then you ask for a trade,
But like it just I like, why why are they?
Speaker 2: Why is anyone doing this?
Speaker 1: Mike and Sam from the time my podcast had talked
about this on The Sun's Looking Ahead to where I
think they said that Booker has said staying with one
like he understands why like the meaning of staying with
one team because you look at how you're treated by
that next fan base in mchaille, or maybe they were
making an example of like Michale Bridges with the Knicks,
no team is going to love you as much as
that for first team slash fan.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think the question we need to ask though, is
I think you can talk even if they gave Devin
Booker the money to keep him happy, like that's okay, whatever,
And if you mentioned you're disappointed in Booker, he's still
trade eligible at some point this season. If he wants
to get out, he could get out, Mike. The actual
question we need to be asking is what was the
actual goal of this offseason, Like what did they accomplish
here aside from getting out of the second apron And
now they're like kind of a stone's throw away from
ducking the tax because that's the sticking point. The Kevin
Durant trades interesting because the return feels underwhelming. I don't
know if they had options out there, like I might
have just preferred the one at this point that gave
me more flexibility than having to pay Jalen Green, And
then how good is common model? Watch gonna be? The
bigger sticking point of their off season to me was
the Bradley Beal buying him out and waiving him. This
wasn't what the Bucks did with Damian Lillard, because one
Damian Lillard wasn't even gonna be available to play. And
even if you think that Bradley Bual is getting rid
of him as adition by subtraction, what did you do
after you got rid of Bradley Beal? It wasn't. It
was to save money. It wasn't for any other reason
other than to save money and maybe improve the vibes.
Speaker 3: Right, and like it for this team more than almost
any other, it's very difficult to separate what they did
this offseason from what has happened in the previous couple
of years, because like they're just in these impossible positions
of their own making, right, and so it's like, it's
terrible to get this return for Kevin Durant. It's ridiculous
to pay Bradley Beal to go away. But it's like
you've ruined this team so serious, so severely that like
this is just the best you could do. I guess so,
And like I think in a vacuum we'd be like, yeah,
you probably do want to save some money because this
team's not any good and you don't want to spend
what it's going to cost, right, like little quasi Celtics logic.
Speaker 1: Don't you think they could have went about getting out
of the second aprin another way, Like you have Royce O'Neill,
you have Grayson Allen. There had to be like even
if you wanted to get here's a question if you
could have just traded Dylan Brooks and gotten out of
the Apron that way versus paying Bradley be over the
next half decade. I understand you want him off your team,
but like then tell him to take his ball and
go home at some point, because to me, if you
put almost nineteen plus million dollars in dead money on
your books for the next half decade, you've now told
me that you're not planning on going anywhere special in
that next half decade. And the only way you could
have convinced me otherwise is had there have been a
light at the end of the tunnel, similar to what
it was with Milwaukee. And you can even quibble and
say like that that wasn't even enough, but they at
least got the perfect fit for their best player in
the front court out of a spot that was going
to be a complete zero if you were to put
him on the basketball court. They wouldn't have had the
option with Damian Lillard. The Sons would have had the
option to play Bradley Beal. I'm not saying that the
returns would have been good, So that's just cheaping out
in the biggest potential, like biggest way possible. But like,
the more unnerving thing to me is that it just
shows the plan is to do absolutely nothing coherent over
the next half decade. I just don't I don't understand it.
Speaker 3: I mean, they don't have any options, they don't have
any picks, they don't have any prospects that you know.
So in some sense, it's like to really get nihilistic
about like nothing they did could have mattered because they're
already just they're screwed like that.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: However, many years you want to say half decade more
like right, But that's not an excuse, that's not an excuse,
Like you still should be trying to make the right
moves under the circumstances. The Brooks argument you made is
really compelling, Like there's got to be a way that
doesn't involve dead money upwards of twenty million dollars for
several years to get under that to say, you know,
like there's other there are other ways to do this.
I just I think maybe this maybe the simplest way
to talk about this is like everything from moving on
from a coach in Budenholzer that clearly was the wrong
pick from the outset, hiring another Michigan State guy, uh
putting it, putting a yet another somewhat tied Michigan state
guy in charge of personnel that has no experience, Brian
Gregory is in charge of personnel, Like it's just evidence
of an ownership that is like this ain't for you, man,
Like like you've you've made terrible decisions to this point,
and it just continues to be like they're given the
Kings a run for their money in terms of just
like capricious.
Speaker 2: Maybe they're maybe that's not even.
Speaker 3: Fair, it's because it's clearly host trapic, great, awesome, good
games for.
Speaker 1: Free broadcasting the games for free, that's a big one there.
Speaker 3: There hasn't been a plan, There isn't a plan, and
there doesn't look like there's gonna be a plan.
Speaker 2: So uh, we can just go to the grades. Like,
I don't know what else to say. Plus yeah, good good.
It's really zagging across the board.
Speaker 1: Because I do think just to the timeline, guys really
gave me the skinny on Nogel Hayes Davis and like
he's thirty, so I don't know what to expect for him,
but I love no But I'm actually getting to I
think that Kamanawatch can be interesting. Mark Williams is, at
least on the offensive end. I just don't believe in
his defense. I know a lot of people disagree there
that's someone who can be interesting. I like the idea
of Kobe Breya his shooting interesting. So I don't hate
everything they did, And I don't know how to actually
view the Kevin Durant trade is what I struggled with,
because is there, like, what is the alternative offer that
Minnesota had on the table where you could because Kevin
Durant had a lot of agency over where he's going.
And then if you're digging miss, are you starting to
penalize them for the way they handled at the trade
deadline where they tried to secretly shop him rather than
get his input initially and figured out something. Then I
don't know if that could be part of their offseason great.
So I'm just sort of I'm equivocating on how to
judge the Kevin Durant trade. The return on paper is underwhelming.
He's thirty seven and entering the final year of his contract.
I don't know how much better were you supposed to do.
I guess if you think that Jalen Green's money is
that far underwater for the next three years, there's definitely
a conversation to be had. So that's what I struggled with.
That's why they didn't get F minus. Is my point
is because I don't think that I looked at everything
as just a complete and utter failure. And look Jordan Ott,
Michigan State guy, and he's at least saying the right
things about how they want to play. So maybe maybe
there's a change in stylistic preferences. And you're already hearing
about Devin Booker and like these other players like that
it's not as depressing as it's been the past two years,
So like that's a good thing. Put that on a
banner our final team, grant your Sacramento Kings. Would you
like to take us through what they did this offseason?
Speaker 2: Absolutely?
Speaker 3: So. They officially hired Doug Christy, who took over for
the deposed Mike Brown last season. They also traded the
spurs twenty twenty seven first to the Thunder for number
twenty four. Nie Clifford h that pick will turn into
the kings twenty seven second and Charlotte's twenty seven second
if it is not conveyed. There's top sixteen protection on
that uh. They drafted Maxim Renaud at number forty two.
He signed a three year deal with a second round
except the team option on the final year of that.
They picked up kean Ellis's teams.
Speaker 2: He can now be an.
Speaker 3: Unrestricted free agent next summer. Traded Jonas Valentunas to Denver
for Dario Sarich. Traded Charlotte's twenty six second with top
fifty five protection fake second alert to Detroit for Dennis
Shruter and a twenty nine second that's the least favorable
of Detroit Milwaukee or the Knicks. Struder then signed a
three year, forty four point four million dollars deal, Only
four point four million of that is guaranteed in twenty
seven to twenty eight. The Kings also signed Drew u
Banks to a minimum and Doug McDermott to a one
year minimum. Dan, would you like about this offseason for
the Kings?
Speaker 1: I very much like Nee Clifford great. I think that that.
I think that that was a good bet. Bib the
King and the pick they gave up top sixteen protected
from the Spurs. That's fine with me for it. Okay,
after that, I mean, I don't I don't mind maximum
right now. Like he's big. He shoots threes like he's gigantic,
So don't I don't mind that. Everything else, I mean,
you know, the what is nothing? I mean, Doug Christy,
I'm again, I'm probably indifferent to that. Could they've had
more of a coaching higher process though, it seems very
much like Viveck decided that Scott Perry was not going
to choose his own guy. So that's that never ends?
Speaker 2: Well?
Speaker 1: When does it end? When has that ever ended? Well?
Speaker 3: If and the Kings did this for so many cycles
where they would they would swap out an executive and
not the coach, and so then you have this situation
basically where the head coach is not someone the executive picked,
and then the maybe they'd changed the coach, and then
the executive will hire someone and the executive would get
fired and there's a new guy and he didn't So
you're just kind of getting on the carousel again here. Yeah,
I I it's it's as struggle here, like just to
drill down on it, like the Shrewder deal is okay
in a vacuum, I guess, but like the guy's gonna
be on his thirteenth team or something like that, and
it's just he's the wrong kind of player for this roster. Yuh,
Valentunis is a is a way better player than Dario Sarich.
Like maybe if the threat was he's just gonna leave
the NBA, then okay, we'll take something, but.
Speaker 1: That would have helped him for what they wanted to
do by getting.
Speaker 3: Then you get out of the money. So even that
is like hard to defend. And Sarich is just kind
of cooked like has been for a while. So I
don't care that he makes half of what Valentnis was making.
Speaker 1: The you know what the the mardinal sin might be
is the key on Ellis stuff is that you had
a chance to make him a restricted free agent and
you've now they've yet to. He is extension eligible still,
so they could still sign him to an extension. But
like that's the type of player that teams will go
after in free agency next summer.
Speaker 2: Right, kind of like a universal fit, not going to
need to pay.
Speaker 1: Other ball handlers, defends his ass off.
Speaker 3: Like mid level money is not out of the question
for him, and a lot of teams will have that.
So yeah, like potential pretty big mistake there.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: And maybe really what we should talk about is like
well sticking sticking with the core that has just very
little upside, just the Levigne DeRozan Sabonis corps. I mean,
not a lot has come of Sabonis's Like late season,
I'm gonna evaluate my situation comments see clarity, seek clarity,
we see you remember uh and and so like to
not break up that group and bring it all back
like maybe theyre just weren't good trade offers.
Speaker 2: I don't know, but like it's just really hard to
be optimistic about about anything here. Well, I don't know
what you point to.
Speaker 1: I almost can't criticize them for not blowing up because
they're they're not built to what is the player on
this roster that teams are gonna trip over themselves to acquire?
Right now, what does blowing it up look like? Right?
Speaker 3: I mean it would have to be will take worse
money back, like the old school move of like we're
gonna make this a three year process, We're gonna take
your bad money with a pick, And that's just never
been how the Kings have operated.
Speaker 2: But like that's that's what we would have.
Speaker 3: Counseled, right, Like you know, maybe maybe that's changed now,
like maybe maybe the rebuild process is a little different,
but like I think that's the move just because you
know where this ends, Like the upside is is so
limited here, especially in the West.
Speaker 2: You're old, your pieces don't fit.
Speaker 3: The move clearly, you know, would have been like just
speaking of like all the way down to the initial
question of like what's the goal.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: The goal should have been to start over, and they
didn't do that, and so like I just I don't
know what else to really say, Like I gues we're
talking in hypotheticals like they should have done X, Y
and Z. How feasible would it have been to blow
this whole thing up? We know ownership doesn't have an
appetite for that. We know the fan base probably would,
just in my reading of it, would prefer another pursuit
of thirty eight to forty eight wins, which is like
thirty eight is going to be a tall order here.
Speaker 1: You're saying the fan base would prefer it. I would
argue the opposite.
Speaker 3: I think this is maybe anecdote, but it just really
does feel to me like they want a team that's
chasing a playoff spot. They want to go to the
games and have it be semi interesting night tonight, and
just a full on rebuild does not to me seem
like what's being called for to.
Speaker 2: My well, in my opinion, often enough.
Speaker 1: To correct myself before keon allis is not exten chaligeable
until February ninth, so edification there, But I don't I
don't know. I it's I get it feels like it
would be more split because I feel like maybe the
Kings fans that like I interact with would be all
for them having any sort of vision, which they don't
have right now. It's pretty clear, and like that would
be the question that we're supposed to consider in all
this is remove our biases on what they should have
done or how we feel about these moves in a vacuum.
What was the goal this offseason? What is the plan
they're attempting to move forward? And I'll even extend that
to by being involved at least tangentially and the Jonathan
Coming quote unquote sweepstakes. I don't okay, he's young, he's
wing sized. You do not have a lot of any
of those players, like you have all these guards and
you somehow have like no backup bigs unless we're going
Drew U Banks or is it Charitch or is or
is Rey no gonna get those minutes here? There's no
This is the team I was talking about it. If
you wanted to make a case that the Pelicans did
not have the worst offseason in the NBA, I think
the kings of the team to point to and say
that's the one that gives them a run for their money.
And that is when you consider that you have a
player as good as domas a bonus on the roster
and where you just were two years ago. Yeah, and
also like you just had the Aaron Fox last summer.
That is horrifying to be in this position.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're they're worse now in the short term because
like Shrewder could have a career here and not touch
the numbers. Darren Fox put up in like a foot
out the door season, not this. Maybe he wouldn't have
had a foot out the door, but he did.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 3: And their worst long term because there just aren't any
prospects here and you've made it harder to keep one
of the only guys that has like an interesting future
in Keon Ellis by letting him hit unrestricted free agency.
Speaker 2: So I don't know what the plan was. It seems
like status quo ish. Uh.
Speaker 3: Just even bringing Christie back, I think is like you
had the golden opportunity to not do that when you.
Speaker 2: Hired a new executive. So I don't know what the
goal is.
Speaker 3: It seems ridiculously unambitious and uh, yeah, I don't know.
I don't have anything good to say, to be honest.
Speaker 1: No, I what's what was your least favorite move? So
not non move. I guess picking up Kean Ellis's team
option rather than would count but so honestly.
Speaker 3: You're Scott Perry because he's been here before, which is
just like ick right, and and did a bunch of
ridiculous machinations so they could sign Vince Carter and Zach
Randolph and Regon Rondo and was gone before that season
even ended, and you're like, that's our guy, as the Kings,
like that's.
Speaker 1: It's also funny that you overvalue Zach Lavine and trade
talks for dearon Fox and then proceed to hire a
guy who's on record as not thinking Zach Levine is
a valuable player to run your best Bob.
Speaker 3: It's it's just yeah, I mean maybe because you got
to start kind of at the top. Ownership is the
real issue, but like.
Speaker 2: Get it back down is the executive.
Speaker 1: So they didn't get what's the nice thing we could say.
Speaker 2: They didn't get an F minuses flat f's and I don't.
Speaker 1: I honestly, this is the one where it's like, if
you really wanted to talk me out an F for
Phoenix or I May, I don't. You can't talk me
out an F for the Pelicans or the Kings. I
don't like those are just I'd probably just be obstinate
in my views on them, I think to.
Speaker 3: The King's credit, they didn't give up an unprotected first
round pick.
Speaker 2: Yes, the next draft yet.
Speaker 1: Johnathan Kamina is not signed on the dotted line yet.
My friend, there's there's still time. Do you have anything
else to add or is that about do it for us?
Speaker 2: I think that's gonna do it.
Speaker 3: Were we shorter than the East, maybe by time? No, no, no,
I'll make this quick then. Thanks everybody for listening, for watching. Uh,
please remember rate review, subscribe, leave us some comments, and
give us some good reviews wherever you're listening to this
or watching it.
Speaker 2: That's very very helpful. We appreciate it if you'd like to.
Speaker 3: Pretty At some point coming up we'll do what are
we gonna do some over under predictions, So we're gonna
be using discord to kind of handle that.
Speaker 2: Links for links for that or in the YouTube and
podcast description.
Speaker 1: Check out our we should try plugging a future show.
We're gonna do a live show on Monday night about
ten about ten pm Eastern time, maybe a little after
ten pm Easter. I'm just reacting to some of the
biggest storylines to come out of the first like Mass
Media Day. We've already had a few training camps open.
Speaker 3: Obviously, we see who's skinny again, because that's apparently, apparently
that's the new thing.
Speaker 1: Who's who's career low body fat with while also putting
on fifteen pounds the muscle.
Speaker 3: It's best shape of your life season. We're gonna try
to get there by Monday night, just us two personally.
Thanks again.
Speaker 2: Everybody shouts frankly Latin apologies.
Speaker 3: Try down