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Speaker 1: What is up, fellasic goos. I am Dana Valley coming

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at you with my one, my only, my certified fantabulous

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co host, mister Grant Hughes. We're taking a break from

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the look Ahead train, which quick reminder go check out

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all of our look aheads. I think as we're recording this,

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we have twenty one of thirty up. Every team gets

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like basically an hour most of the time. Some of

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them go ninety minutes. We go into the weeds on

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all of them. Check those out. If you haven't listened

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to us before, subscribe on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, and the

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biggest way to help us get the name out there,

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aside from subscribing, is leave ratings and reviews. The reviews

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on Apple are still how a lot of people find

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us or how a lot of people make their decisions.

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So take ten seconds out of your day to go

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write a review for us and give us those five

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stars across all platforms. But we're here to talk something

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very timely. We're gonna do our off season grades for

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the Western Conference. Now that training camps are opening up,

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this just feels like a good time to get to them.

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How are you doing, Grant, I'm just so ready to

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give out some f's. We were talking before we started recording,

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and we're gonna be a little harsher I think collectively

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on the West than we were on the East.

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Speaker 2: Uh, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I did talk some additional f's.

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Speaker 3: You did, you did, but you look, this is a

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collaborative process. We have our individual grades. But I did

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need I did need this. Surprisingly, I needed to be

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talked down on a couple of teams I'm always negative about,

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So maybe I was over compensating.

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Speaker 1: Now before we get started, do you want to take

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for anyone who didn't listen to the Eastern Conference grades

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which are up to go? Check those out? Uh? Did

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you want to take us through like what we're trying

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to accomplish by handing out these grades.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll try to be more succinct than I was

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on the East. I listened back to that and that

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was too much talking. Basically, we start from a perspective

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of what is this team trying to do, and then

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based on hopefully we can establish that if we can't,

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that's a problem, and then based on that we decide

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how well they pursued that goal, Like did did the signings, trades, draft,

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picks they made fall into step with what the goal

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is for this offseason and the team as a whole.

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Fair right like that, that's the bottom line, and see

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his average, we have to throw that out there. It's

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not a bad grade. We will give plenty of bad grades.

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They'll be very clear which ones those are.

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Speaker 1: And the other thing we always like to remind everybody

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is we do try to look at relative to what's available.

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And so it's just to use like an Eastern Conference team.

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It's just the Knicks couldn't go out and just sign

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all the free agents they wanted because they have to

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worry about the aprons and all that. So if you

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don't have money to spend, we're factoring that in to

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where as a team like the Jazz had way more

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flexibility than a team like I don't know who's the

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least flexible team in the Western Conference as we're recording this,

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they have some pretty flexible team Phoenix, well they were

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they found a way to not be flexible. But the

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point is, and we do try to wait, like, what

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were the other scenarios out there? And so if you're

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gonna go in and let's say we slam the Suns,

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because of their return on the Kevin Durant trade. We

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do have to get into like, well, what would the

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alternative paths have been? Should be the goal? I think

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that's everything. We're gonna challenge ourselves again. We're gonna go

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alphabetically by division because division's Matt, would you say that

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divisions matter more in the NBA than any other sport.

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Speaker 3: It's so important, Dan, I don't even watch outside the

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Pacific Division, for example. I just believe it's inferior basketball.

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Speaker 1: We begin with the Dallas Mavericks. I could take us

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through their transaction log. Mister huse. I think you started

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us off last time, so I'll start us off this time.

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The Dallas Mavericks. They I don't know if anyone heard,

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they drafted Cooper Flag at number one. They re signed

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Kyrie Irving to after he declined his player option, to

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a three year, one hundred and eighteen point five million

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dollar deal that actually lowered his cap hit for this

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season from forty six point three million to thirty six

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point six million. He has a twenty twenty seven twenty

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twenty eight player option that ends up being important because

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the MAVs were so unbelievably close like to the second

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apron that they needed to end up waving and stretching

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Olivier Maxen's prosper. They signed d Low to a two

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year eleven point seven million dollar deal that's the tax

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player MLE and has a player option on year two.

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Daniel Gafford got extended on a three year fifty four

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point four million dollar deal. He's immediately eligible to be

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traded and it runs through the twenty eight to twenty

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nine season. And sometimes I'll throw in what the average

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of the salary cap is, because I think some of

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these guys give people sticker shock. It's about ten point

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four percent on average of the salary cap. PJ. Washington

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got a four year eighty eight point eight million dollar

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extension that runs through twenty twenty nine twenty thirty, and

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it's about an average of twelve point four percent of

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the salary cap. And as I said, they waved and

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stretched Olivey a Maxent's prosper and after that they brought

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back Dante Exhem on a minimum deal. Grant, do you

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think they made the right choice at number one?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they get a C for that.

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Speaker 3: Right Like the we every team on Earth would have

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taken flag there it's it's cool that they lucked into

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that pick, but like, I don't know how you feel,

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but I just didn't. I almost don't even consider that.

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It's it's great for the franchise, it's an A plus,

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but it's like we're not grading that. We're grading like decisions,

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I guess, and this wasn't the decision.

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Speaker 1: Well, here's the thing is that you clearly don't understand

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the vision. I don't understand a vision. Nico Harrison had

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to will right the lottery victory into existence, and so

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don't we need to account for that as well, which

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would make this an A plus plus plus move?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? No, I think maybe should we just move on

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just a yeah? Eight plus plus.

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Speaker 3: So the flag aside, I think you can go down

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the list of every transaction here that you mentioned and

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they're all like good to very good. And with that's

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not to say there aren't risks, Like I think the

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Irving deal makes sense, but you're paying for a year

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of him not to play, and who knows what he's

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going to be when he comes back. I just think overall, though,

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still like that's a fair amount for him given where

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he is in his career. So fine, there Russell's a

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great deal. Like, I don't think either of us are

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huge fans of his, but for for this team that

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doesn't have Kyrie, like to get a starting ish caliber

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ball handler for twelve million dollars over two years, great Gafford,

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Great Washington, both tradable numbers. I think, I think my

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so this might seem like we're trending just toward an

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a which is I don't think is I can't remember yours.

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Speaker 2: But I didn't end up that high, And.

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Speaker 3: Part of that is because or a lot of that

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is because I'm not super sure what this team's goals are.

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And I also really don't like the overall build here,

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which is to say, this is an enormous team that

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does not have ball handling like at all outside of Russell,

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and like it's cool to imagine super sized lineups where

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like Flag or PJ.

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Speaker 2: Washington is the two.

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Speaker 3: But like I just the team doesn't make a ton

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of sense to me, and maybe that will change if.

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Speaker 2: They can trade.

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Speaker 3: Washington cannot be traded, but Gafford can if they use

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these good contracts that they've signed to sort of remake

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the shape of the team from a positional standpoint. But

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I don't know that that's the plan. Maybe it is,

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Maybe it is, and it's been very difficult to figure

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out what Dallas's plans are.

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Speaker 2: Does that make sense?

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Speaker 3: Like overall is where I have the issue, not on

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any one transaction in particular.

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Speaker 1: Right, And I think I would I would echo all

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of that because the Daniel Gafford extension is one I

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get hung up on to where it's like, did you

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need to do that? But I guess if you're worried

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about Derek Lively's health or as you said, you did

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keep him trade eligible and that's a deal. But like,

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I don't know if teams are tripping over themselves to

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acquire Daniel. He's one of the most efficient guys around

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the basket, but he's also on a team now where

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like he's one of those guys and him and Derek

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Lively like they need someone to get even Ivie Davis

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is someone who's best position when someone gets him the ball,

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who is getting them the ball until Kyrie Irving comes back?

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And I think what I struggle with here is they

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didn't have a lot of flexibility coming in. I think

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like you could see that by the Kyrie Irving contract,

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Like they needed to restructure that to like make basically

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the D'Angelo Russell signing possible, Like without him, if you

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would have just picked up his player option, like, they

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would have had to go through a bunch of other

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different machinations. My issue is, so we have to look

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and ask ourselves what is the goal of this team?

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And they laid out their goal when they traded Luka

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Doncic to say, like, we're trying to contend for a title.

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And it's clear that they haven't viewed the addition of

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Cooper Flag as someone who is going to change that.

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And so I need to look at them through that

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bar and say, you have this massive hole on your

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roster right now, and you did nothing to fill it

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other than sign d Lo to a mini mid level.

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That's not again, all the transactions I would have done,

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probably most of them PJ Washington extension for sure, but

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they weren't linked in trade. So like getting this other

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primary ball handler and if you're gonna say, well we

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want Cooper Flag to develop that way, hey great, I

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actually think that's a fantastic idea, But not for a

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team that fancies itself a contender. And so that's where

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I'm the process versus like the internal evaluation or the

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internal goal. It really doesn't quite align. And then even

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if you take that out of the equation, I just

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would have to echo everything else you say is that

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this roster just doesn't make sense from a balanced perspective.

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It's cues very heavily towards size and defense. And there's

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you mentioned ball handling about shooting on this team, Like

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there's just not a ton of that either.

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Speaker 3: No, and you could, I mean, we haven't mentioned Clay Thompson.

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That's not an off season thing. But like he's he

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obviously provides shooting, but then like he's not someone that

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you can use to guard anything other than like a

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four these days, and the whole roster's populated with guys

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that should be guarding fours and five, so it.

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Speaker 2: May be difficult to get shooting on the floor in that.

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Speaker 3: Respect and maintain the defense that you're you're trying. So again,

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it's just a fit thing.

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: We're negative, I guess overall, but as we'll see here,

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you want to jump to the grades unless you have

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anything else to add.

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Speaker 1: No, it sounded like we went from sounding like an

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A plus to like an f right we actually.

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Speaker 3: You game would be I game would be minus it's

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and it's I think we're pretty much aligned on you know,

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if you itemize the whole thing individually, these transactions are all.

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Speaker 2: Like pretty good.

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Speaker 3: It's just together it produces a team that is maybe

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trying to win now but also later and isn't really

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positioning itself to be great at either of those respects.

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So it's just a kind of a global like I

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don't like shrug, I don't know what are you guys doing.

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Speaker 1: And the other thing too, is just like if I

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were the Mavericks. And again the fact that they still

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got a B for me while factoring this in is like,

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this is not what I would be doing. Is like

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Cooper flag is the timeline. I would have stripped it

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down and trade. Yeah, so that's again that factors in.

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But they didn't make a bad move though, Like that,

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what would be your least favorite move from them of

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the offseason?

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Speaker 3: It might be Gafford of the I mean yeah, my

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least favorite move again would be like the one they

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didn't make, which is to get more ball handling or shooting,

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get more guards.

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Speaker 1: Do you want to take us through man this team,

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the Houston Rockets.

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Speaker 3: You took Dallas, so I'd have to read this one.

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So they signed Ammyodoka to a multi year extension. Well deserved.

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There kind of turned things around. Big transaction. Traded Dylan Brooks,

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Jalen Green and number ten which became come on Malwatch

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and a twenty six second rounder to Phoenix for Kevin Durant.

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That also included sending out the fifty ninth pick and

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a twenty thirty one second plus some cash. Extended Jabari

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Smith Junior for five years and one hundred and twenty

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two million dollars with no options on that deal. Signed

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Dorian Finney Smith for four years at fifty two point

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seven million. Most of the non taxmid level went to

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that deal. Only two of those four years are guaranteed, though,

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so the full guarantee numbers twenty six point one million.

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They re signed Steven Adams three years thirty nine that

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declines a year over year. They turned They declined their

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team option on Fred van Vliet for forty four and

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a half million, brought him back for two years at

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fifty with a player option for twenty six twenty seven.

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They brought back Jeff Green Jay Shontate Aaron Holliday on minimums.

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They signed Josha Kogie to a minimum. They also brought

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back Quint Cappella old friend three years, twenty one point

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one million that was technically rolled into the Kevin Durant trade,

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which got very complicated. They also traded Cam Whitmore to

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the Wizards for the Bulls twenty six second rounder the

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Kings twenty nine second that morphed into a three teamer

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in which Mohave King number forty seven two years ago

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was also moved, and they created a three and a

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half million dollar trade exception which they can use to

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maybe replace Fred van Fleet.

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Speaker 1: No, I don't know, they can't because they're too close

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to going over the first a bridge.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that was the real wrench in the works, the

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van Fleet injury. So Dan a very busy offseason, kind

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of like sprinkled in every kind of transaction you'd want,

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from extension to free agent signings to trades. What jumps

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out to you most here?

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Speaker 2: Or is it even.

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Speaker 3: Possible to talk about an individual transaction without mentioning the

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like monkey wrench that is the van Fleet injury.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and we'll have to dig deeper into the van

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Fleet injury in a second, but I think the I

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mean the Kevin Durant moved, they were good enough to

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make it, and I don't think it was even if

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you thought that Kevin Durant might want to leave after

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this season. I've just I know what the number ten

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pick was in there, but I look at what they

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gave up like I probably would have made that trade anyway.

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So that sticks out. But I think what's stuck out

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even before the Van Fleet injury is then really over

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indexing on not point guards or ball handlers. And as

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a fan of Reed Shepherd, I thought that was okay.

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But now when you have the Van Vleet injury and

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you're left with Aaron Holliday or again, I really like

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Aman Thompson, but he's not like the ball handling isn't like,

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let's if you need to slow down the offense and

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crunch time at any point and go up against the set,

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he's so fast it might not matter. So we're gonna

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get more information on him. Read Shepherd, Albert and Shangoon.

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But it did stick out to me, and it was

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even when they made the Capella trade, it was okay,

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So they want to play a lot of bigs, like

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even when Adams and Shangoon aren't on the court together,

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And I think that you could have quibbled over again

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even before the VanVleet injury, like we needed to bring

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in Josha Koge and Jeff Green, like all those guys

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needed to come back, Like why not use a minimum

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on either someone who's more of a shooter or someone

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who like Malcolm Brogdon for this team right now might

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have looked brilliant. So I found that stuff curious. But

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when you're looking at the value, like the extensions, what

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you gave Steven Adams, what you gave to Barr Smith,

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you and your the Dori Ifinny Smith deal is like

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feels like kind of a steal. So I really like

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their offseason, but it's tough to square away now, Like

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how do we divorce it from Okay, well, what happens

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now that Fred van Vleet is probably gonna miss a

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off next year?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you have to divorce it because like

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we're not we can't be in the business of grading

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injuries that happen after all the transactions are over, and

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if you if you imagine van Vliet is healthy, I

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think I'm surprised you weren't even more positive about it,

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but like they set it up so Read Shepard is

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the backup point guard, Like that's just what and you

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were what you're looking at, and then you trust your

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tertiary ball handling. I guess you'd say to some combination

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of Thompson and Shanngoon who can run some stuff. Not

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a point guard, obviously, but you can run some things

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through him, and then Aaron Holliday is like your fourth

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or fifth.

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Speaker 2: Ball handling option.

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Speaker 3: Like I'm I think that's fine, and probably I think

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it serves the need that this team had to like

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put Sheppard in a position where he's gonna play.

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Speaker 2: Now he really is in a position where he's gonna play.

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Speaker 3: But I think I think it was a positive that

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they didn't go find another Aaron Holiday type just as

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like extra insurance, because I want Read Shepherd to play.

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I don't know if I want him to play as

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much as he's gonna have to do this year, but

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I do think that should have been a priority of

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like let's not get more stuff in the way of

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him than we have to. So I don't view going

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into the season with with even with Van fleet. What

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you might say limited point guard options, Like I think

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that was that I would I think, honestly, I would

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have been fine doing the same thing. And then the

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rest of these deals, like I love the Jubari Smith deal.

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I'm probably too high on him, but I think that's

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a great rate for someone that you know, maybe he's

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never gonna be able to dribble, but he's I think

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he's gonna make threes. I think he's gonna be able

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to play center. That's just like that feels below market

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to me for what he can be. So overall, yeah,

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this was a phenomenal offseason. The price was so right

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for Durant. Whatever happens, like, that's just a price you pay.

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Speaker 1: To be clear, I meant, I meant it more post

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and we're gonna have to talk about uh van vleet

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in a second. I was talking about more from a

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shooting perspective, because that would be a way to obviate

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some of the concerns about the ball handling. Now, but

360
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I do agree with you because in my head, I'm like, well,

361
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Brogdon can kind of play both guard positions, but one

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is he healthy and two they extended him, so you

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hope that they're on the same page, but like, was

364
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this about we're taking as many clubs out of em

365
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Udoka's bag as possible. So Dat reed, Shepherd does have

366
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to play and that's you know that that's kind of

367
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a bug, but it's also a feature of their Ausse said, look,

368
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you're I think we should just talk about this now.

369
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So let's before we give our grades, let's let's talk

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about the Fred van Vliet injury. I well, I want

371
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your thoughts on it, because you don't think this team

372
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is really like you think they're going to be fine

373
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for the most part.

374
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Speaker 3: I I think maybe it's being a little contrarian, but

375
00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:57,200
like I really from the moment the injury happened, I

376
00:16:57,279 --> 00:17:00,960
thought it was at the reactions were deemed hyperbolic to

377
00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:02,440
me of like, oh, they're screwed.

378
00:17:02,519 --> 00:17:03,720
Speaker 2: They're not contenders anyone.

379
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Speaker 3: It's like, well, we thought they were like a fringy contender,

380
00:17:06,519 --> 00:17:08,240
or at least I did. Maybe that was the problem

381
00:17:08,279 --> 00:17:11,920
is I wasn't one hundred percent they were, Yeah, you know,

382
00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:15,440
maybe like thirty five wins. No. I I just to me,

383
00:17:15,839 --> 00:17:18,640
like van Fleet matters, and certainly everybody close to the team.

384
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Maybe maybe we should put more weight on this is

385
00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:25,200
like this is a big deal because he's just he's

386
00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:25,960
a defensive pess.

387
00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:28,279
Speaker 2: He handles the ball. You know, they don't have a

388
00:17:28,319 --> 00:17:29,000
lot of those guys.

389
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Speaker 3: He can shoot it, but like I don't know, the

390
00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:33,160
offense wasn't good with him.

391
00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:34,119
Speaker 2: In the half court last year.

392
00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:36,400
Speaker 3: Like he's it's not like you know, the Rockets had

393
00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:39,480
plenty of scoring issues last season with him on the team.

394
00:17:39,519 --> 00:17:42,279
So like, unless you're prepared to say that, there's like

395
00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:44,480
the bottom is going to fall out even more, which

396
00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:46,839
I don't really think because I think you can redistribute

397
00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:49,240
some of that stuff to other players. I think you

398
00:17:49,279 --> 00:17:52,799
should expect Thompson to be a lot better. Like you,

399
00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:55,160
I don't know, I'm building a straw man. But it's

400
00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:57,359
like you don't get to say Thompson is a potential

401
00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:00,240
All NBA player if he can you know, if a

402
00:18:00,279 --> 00:18:02,279
few things happen like learn how to shoot, and then

403
00:18:02,319 --> 00:18:05,359
also say like, oh, this is this is catastrophic, Like I.

404
00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:06,160
Speaker 2: Just I don't know.

405
00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:10,599
Speaker 3: I guess I'm high enough on Shephard Thompson, Shingoon Smith

406
00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:13,480
all getting better to say that, Like I don't know.

407
00:18:13,559 --> 00:18:15,839
At worst, I think the offense will be as good

408
00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:17,079
as it was last year.

409
00:18:17,039 --> 00:18:17,799
Speaker 2: Without Van Vliet.

410
00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:18,839
Speaker 1: I don't know.

411
00:18:19,039 --> 00:18:22,799
Speaker 3: I just I think I get it like they this

412
00:18:22,839 --> 00:18:26,440
is a team that had like Van Vleet's qualities and

413
00:18:26,519 --> 00:18:29,680
short supply. I just think in the aggregate they're gonna

414
00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:31,599
be as good or better than they were last year,

415
00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:33,559
just because of all the young players that are gonna

416
00:18:33,559 --> 00:18:35,920
be put into bigger roles in that I believe will improve.

417
00:18:36,839 --> 00:18:40,559
Speaker 1: I worry about it less from a regular season perspective

418
00:18:40,559 --> 00:18:42,240
to where I think they can be as good or

419
00:18:42,279 --> 00:18:44,759
better than they were last year. But even Fred van

420
00:18:44,839 --> 00:18:48,319
Fleet you mentioned, okay, the offense had struggles with him

421
00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:51,240
at points, Okay, but now you're going from jail and

422
00:18:51,279 --> 00:18:54,720
Green to Kevin Durant, and Fred van Fleet was one

423
00:18:54,759 --> 00:18:57,960
important in making stuff work for Kevin Durant in terms

424
00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:00,799
of like his threats like off the ball, and also

425
00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:04,119
just being able to play him alongside Aman Thompson, giving

426
00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:06,920
you another even if he if you don't consider him

427
00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:10,640
a reliable spacer, he's someone who defenses are going to

428
00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:12,960
guard from beyond the arc. And removing that from the

429
00:19:13,039 --> 00:19:16,039
rotation is how many of these players on the team

430
00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:18,519
are teams gonna be worried about guarding from beyond the arc.

431
00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:22,440
Right now there's KD. There's I would to say they'll

432
00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:24,279
be worried about Reed Shepherd because I think that he's

433
00:19:24,279 --> 00:19:27,319
gonna be like a future Hall of Famer. But after that, like,

434
00:19:27,319 --> 00:19:29,200
and I mean worried. I'm not talking about Oh look,

435
00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:32,039
Jabari Smith like shot thirty nine percent on mostly wide

436
00:19:32,079 --> 00:19:34,880
open threes. The same thing with DFS. So what do

437
00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:37,640
we put it at three guys? Let's say, and like

438
00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:40,160
that could be a problem for me when you're looking

439
00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:42,640
at their playoff offense, we've seen that like KD isn't

440
00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:45,920
gonna be able to carry these postseason teams, like and

441
00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:48,519
he's had a little few more struggles against double teams.

442
00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:50,640
I'm not saying Fred Van Fleet was gonna be the

443
00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:54,039
difference between Kevin Durant getting doubled or not. But what

444
00:19:54,079 --> 00:19:56,359
are teams gonna do if it's Read Shepherd and Kevin

445
00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:58,839
Durant on the court versus Fred Van Fleet and Kevin Durant.

446
00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:01,240
It feels like they're going to have easier decisions to make.

447
00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:04,839
They're gonna zero in on Kevin Durant. So that's I

448
00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:06,799
think the regular season this team is gonna be fine.

449
00:20:06,799 --> 00:20:09,200
They're still deep, the defense is going to be harrowing.

450
00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:13,519
But now you're so married too. I would say specifically,

451
00:20:14,079 --> 00:20:16,440
Shanghu needs to be better, more efficient, but like I'm

452
00:20:16,519 --> 00:20:19,480
and Thompson and Reed Shepherd kind of both need to pop,

453
00:20:19,599 --> 00:20:21,799
or I'm and Thompson needs to take offensive steps forward

454
00:20:21,839 --> 00:20:25,160
and Read Shepherd needs to pop. Otherwise I don't know

455
00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:28,240
what this team is in the playoffs. It's okay, cool

456
00:20:28,279 --> 00:20:30,880
you got a top four Western Conference seed, but you

457
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,359
did that last year and you got bounced in the

458
00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:35,640
first round. And the other thing, too, is even if

459
00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:37,559
they get a top like, the margins are always so

460
00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:39,759
slim in the West, it feels like between the top

461
00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:42,559
six or seven, or at least two through six or seven.

462
00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:47,039
That like, I could I understand why people are saying

463
00:20:47,079 --> 00:20:49,200
they don't view them as a title threat anymore, because

464
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:50,519
I look at it and say, yeah, this team could

465
00:20:50,519 --> 00:20:52,880
win sixty regular season games still it wouldn't shock me.

466
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:54,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know.

467
00:20:54,599 --> 00:20:57,400
Speaker 1: Without the Van Vliet element of their offense, I would

468
00:20:57,400 --> 00:20:59,599
need to know what Reed Shepherd looks like, what A'm

469
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:02,039
and Tooms it looks like before I could even identify

470
00:21:02,039 --> 00:21:04,359
a team that i'd feel a projected playoff team that

471
00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:06,759
I feel super comfortable with them badly against in the

472
00:21:06,759 --> 00:21:07,279
first round.

473
00:21:07,519 --> 00:21:09,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's all fair. I mean, like.

474
00:21:11,079 --> 00:21:15,519
Speaker 3: There's no argument that, oh, this is objectively a good

475
00:21:15,519 --> 00:21:18,839
thing that because Shepherd, you know, Van Fleet was in

476
00:21:18,839 --> 00:21:23,000
his way, or I just think that the drop off.

477
00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:25,279
Look again, Van Fleet's a small guard. I think this

478
00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:27,559
is going to be his age thirty one season, so like,

479
00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:29,400
and he didn't shoot.

480
00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:29,960
Speaker 2: The ball well last year.

481
00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:32,640
Speaker 3: You're right, he would get guarded and that matters, maybe

482
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:35,160
more than the three point percentage than the actual number.

483
00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:39,759
But I do think that you could expect similar or

484
00:21:39,799 --> 00:21:43,160
worse production from him going forward. And I think there's

485
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:45,880
a case to be made that, like, while the Rockets

486
00:21:46,079 --> 00:21:49,000
will have these issues with spacing with half court offense

487
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:53,160
that they already had that empowering guys like Thompson and

488
00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:57,480
Shangoon and Shepherd and Smith and maybe whoever else, like

489
00:21:57,799 --> 00:22:01,039
they could there's a scenario where they are better but

490
00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:03,000
in a different way, where it's like they get even

491
00:22:03,039 --> 00:22:05,920
more offensive rebounds, they create even more turnovers, they you

492
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,519
know what I mean, Like, it's not good. The Van

493
00:22:08,599 --> 00:22:11,759
Vliet is hurt. It doesn't make the Rockets better, but

494
00:22:11,839 --> 00:22:14,680
I don't. I really am not persuaded by the argument

495
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:18,519
that this fundamentally knocks them down a tier.

496
00:22:18,759 --> 00:22:20,480
Speaker 2: I think that's maybe where I bump.

497
00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:22,799
Speaker 3: On on on on the whole issue is like, so

498
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:24,559
I just think there are ways for them to make

499
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:25,119
up for this.

500
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,000
Speaker 1: Well, since you feel that way, and this has to

501
00:22:29,039 --> 00:22:32,599
be a trade deadline thing, because they just don't unless

502
00:22:32,599 --> 00:22:35,039
they're gonna trade Kevin Duran, Ralprinschang Gun Like, they don't

503
00:22:35,079 --> 00:22:37,640
have players who are making real money to trade and

504
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:39,279
I don't know what the Let's say they were willing

505
00:22:39,319 --> 00:22:41,720
to give up Tari Easton because he's extended, you know

506
00:22:41,759 --> 00:22:43,240
as well they don't want to pay him when you

507
00:22:43,279 --> 00:22:45,759
look at the money he makes, Like who is the player? Like,

508
00:22:45,839 --> 00:22:47,480
are you doing a tar? Are you offering a Tari

509
00:22:47,519 --> 00:22:50,880
Eason for like Scottie Pippen junior swap? Assuming that works?

510
00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:54,079
Does that do anything for you? So if you're the Rockets, though,

511
00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:56,640
how do you square this away? Are you doing anything

512
00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:58,839
at the trade? Well, let's let me free with this way.

513
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:02,000
Are you more likely the Rockets to make a trade

514
00:23:02,039 --> 00:23:05,039
at the deadline if things are going well or if

515
00:23:05,039 --> 00:23:06,839
they're not going as well as you expected.

516
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,480
Speaker 3: Uh, I mean, I guess that's kind of related to

517
00:23:11,599 --> 00:23:13,279
like how long do you intend to be in the

518
00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:17,480
Kevin Durant game for Because if it's like we're gonna

519
00:23:17,519 --> 00:23:19,680
have this, we're gonna extend him, or we're gonna keep

520
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,079
him around for a couple more years, then if things

521
00:23:22,079 --> 00:23:24,119
are going poorly, you probably do double down with the

522
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:26,759
trade to try to like make the current version of

523
00:23:26,799 --> 00:23:29,440
the team better, you know what I mean, if that

524
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,440
makes sense. But whereas if it's going really well, like

525
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:34,799
I don't know, maybe you just let it ride.

526
00:23:35,039 --> 00:23:36,440
Speaker 2: And it's hard. It's hard to say.

527
00:23:36,519 --> 00:23:40,200
Speaker 3: I do think obviously the injury means that they're gonna

528
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:44,599
be more likely deadline players than they were otherwise, But

529
00:23:45,079 --> 00:23:48,759
it's just hard to say. Like I think to your point,

530
00:23:48,759 --> 00:23:51,599
it is difficult to imagine that they're gonna be an

531
00:23:51,599 --> 00:23:54,839
awesome half court offense and the shooting is great, you know,

532
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,039
before the trade deadline. So just generally there's gonna be

533
00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:02,599
maybe some things to address. But like as you also said,

534
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,039
you're not really flushed with the kinds of salaries that

535
00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:09,079
you would want to use to up upgrade this roster.

536
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:10,160
Speaker 2: In a short term way.

537
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:14,240
Speaker 3: However, they've got the picks, right, They've got they can

538
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:16,440
make if you can just get to the numbers. And

539
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:18,559
maybe that involves Van Fleet, which would be like that

540
00:24:18,559 --> 00:24:20,000
would suck, That would be kind of a shitty.

541
00:24:20,039 --> 00:24:20,240
Speaker 2: Look.

542
00:24:20,279 --> 00:24:23,039
Speaker 1: I think if he has he has an implicit no trade,

543
00:24:23,039 --> 00:24:23,880
I think too.

544
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:26,039
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, it's a two year deal and only one.

545
00:24:26,079 --> 00:24:27,960
Well it's a player option. I can never remember if

546
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:30,839
if that, yeah, you're right, one guaranteed year. You have

547
00:24:30,839 --> 00:24:32,799
an implicit no trade.

548
00:24:33,319 --> 00:24:33,680
Speaker 2: I don't know.

549
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 3: I assume we'll be talking about them as as trade candidates,

550
00:24:36,799 --> 00:24:39,160
just because it's kind of an obvious thing.

551
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:40,680
Speaker 2: But yeah, I don't know.

552
00:24:41,759 --> 00:24:43,640
Speaker 1: What is the I'm just gonna throw a couple of

553
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:45,680
names out there, and I'll start here. If it was

554
00:24:45,839 --> 00:24:48,720
just if you could build picks around Fred van Vliet

555
00:24:49,319 --> 00:24:54,440
and get Derek White. Is that enough of offensive juice?

556
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:56,640
Or is that he's too much of an off ball guy?

557
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:57,279
But in a way.

558
00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:01,079
Speaker 3: That's I'm always trading for Derek White, Like I figured

559
00:25:01,079 --> 00:25:02,880
you would say that. What the name that I uh

560
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:05,039
jump to mind is like a lower level one is

561
00:25:05,079 --> 00:25:07,440
like Colin Sexton, Like you know, the Hornets will be

562
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:11,880
happy to move him for like a second or something

563
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:14,799
and matching salary, just someone he's a forty percent three

564
00:25:14,799 --> 00:25:16,880
point shooter, Like he's not really a point guard. But

565
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,400
if what you're looking for is spacing and like I

566
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,799
think Colin Sexton could do that. There's there's a lot

567
00:25:21,799 --> 00:25:22,759
of names at that level.

568
00:25:22,799 --> 00:25:24,519
Speaker 2: I think they'd be fine.

569
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:27,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought, I don't know what another sething just

570
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:29,440
in name Celtics like Peyton Pritchard will be interesting, but

571
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:31,519
I don't know what they want, like to get off,

572
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:33,319
like to get off like it's a bad deal to

573
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,200
give up Peyton Pritchard. It's like that would be and

574
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:38,720
it's interesting to see like what they don't need to

575
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:40,599
go after Anyone's like, oh they needed they need to

576
00:25:40,599 --> 00:25:42,640
be the Tree Young team or something that just to

577
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:46,160
me clearly overstates the situation. Yeah, but I don't know,

578
00:25:46,279 --> 00:25:48,720
Like I'm trying to think of like the name, like

579
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,640
the middle of the pack name, because I do think

580
00:25:52,039 --> 00:25:55,680
ka White. Oh then you gotta worry about his next

581
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:57,279
deal though, But maybe that means you're able to get

582
00:25:57,319 --> 00:26:01,000
him cheaper. Kobe why would be interesting? Yeah, that but

583
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:03,759
to your previous point, what does that mean for read Shepherd?

584
00:26:03,759 --> 00:26:06,599
If you're acquiring someone like that, like Derek White is

585
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,400
not supposed to be like running the offense necessarily, so

586
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:12,359
using him as the analog, it's okay, like Read Shepherd

587
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:13,759
could play with him. But if you bring in Kobe

588
00:26:13,799 --> 00:26:15,839
White not supposed to run the offense anyway. But I

589
00:26:15,839 --> 00:26:17,599
don't envision a lot of Read Shepherd and Kobe White

590
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:19,400
minutes under Emil Yudoka.

591
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:20,880
Speaker 2: Uh No, seems unlikely.

592
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:24,839
Speaker 3: But again, if Shepherd is who he's supposed to be, like,

593
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:26,480
I don't know, we might not even we might be

594
00:26:26,519 --> 00:26:28,680
overblown this in a big way. Right, If Shepherd is

595
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,400
who you think he's gonna be, right, then this is

596
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:32,839
the great off.

597
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,839
Speaker 1: Rip, though we don't know so which Now, final two

598
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:39,079
questions on this. If you're Kevin Durant, had you had

599
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:41,440
previous knowledge of the Fred van Fleet injury, which you

600
00:26:41,559 --> 00:26:43,440
still wanted to go to the Rockets.

601
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:47,960
Speaker 3: I mean, there's still a lot to recommend the Rockets

602
00:26:48,039 --> 00:26:50,799
even without Van Vleet, But you can't. We can't pretend

603
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,759
like that would have that would have been a factor. Well,

604
00:26:53,799 --> 00:26:56,559
I don't know what his alternatives were also, uh but

605
00:26:56,559 --> 00:27:00,720
but yeah, likeda Van Vleet being there. I think is

606
00:27:00,839 --> 00:27:03,920
definitely a plus, right, like he's that's of course that

607
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:05,279
would have been a factor for Durant.

608
00:27:05,319 --> 00:27:06,640
Speaker 1: Well, I'm just I was curious what you were going

609
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,079
to say because you didn't say that the van Fleet

610
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:11,039
you to be clear, you did not say van Fleet's

611
00:27:11,039 --> 00:27:13,519
injury was a good thing, but you said it really

612
00:27:13,519 --> 00:27:15,920
doesn't damage their championship equity. And so it comes down

613
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,640
to if you feel that way, like how much a

614
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:22,599
part of Houston's appeal was tied to Fred van Fleet

615
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:23,400
For Kevin Durant.

616
00:27:23,519 --> 00:27:24,759
Speaker 2: Again, that's my opinion.

617
00:27:25,079 --> 00:27:27,559
Speaker 3: Kevin Durant probably has a higher opinion of his importance

618
00:27:27,599 --> 00:27:28,359
maybe than I do.

619
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:29,599
Speaker 2: Again, I want to I.

620
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,200
Speaker 3: Want to say that, like, I don't think it damages

621
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:36,200
their championship equity to the degree that everyone is saying

622
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:36,599
it will.

623
00:27:36,759 --> 00:27:39,599
Speaker 2: Like it's just oh, they're done. They're not. They can't.

624
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:41,440
Speaker 3: It's like I don't know, first of all, were they

625
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:45,079
title contenders like in you know, Capital T, Capital C

626
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:47,119
before maybe?

627
00:27:47,519 --> 00:27:49,920
Speaker 2: Uh, But it's just like it doesn't knock them down

628
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:51,680
the level that I think it's being made out to.

629
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:52,720
That's all. That's all.

630
00:27:53,599 --> 00:27:55,839
Speaker 1: YOA would be such a Rockets player, can't see the

631
00:27:55,839 --> 00:27:57,599
team Andrew Nemhart would.

632
00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:59,400
Speaker 2: Be such a Rockets player, big time.

633
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,279
Speaker 1: Uh. And the final question I have on this is,

634
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,319
if you're the Rockets and you had prior knowledge of

635
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:07,559
the Fred van Vleet injury, are you going and trading

636
00:28:07,599 --> 00:28:09,599
for Kevin Durant anyway? Are you viewing this year as

637
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:12,599
more of a what you're talking about of an extra

638
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:16,279
feeling out process with Ana Thompson with Reed Shepherd, That

639
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:16,960
to me is.

640
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:17,960
Speaker 2: The more interesting question.

641
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:20,319
Speaker 3: Doesn't it seem like it would have been very easy

642
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:22,039
for Houston to just say, like, we got a million

643
00:28:22,039 --> 00:28:24,920
awesome young players, let's let him cook this year. I

644
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,279
think I think maybe that would have been more on

645
00:28:27,319 --> 00:28:27,759
the table.

646
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:30,279
Speaker 1: I do wonder if it would have changed the contents

647
00:28:30,319 --> 00:28:32,559
of their package to where would they have wanted to

648
00:28:32,599 --> 00:28:35,960
have kept Jalen Green just to have them so, I

649
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,119
don't know, but he was so important to matching the

650
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:42,000
salary that you so. But I think I don't think

651
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,039
it would have stopped me because I am so high

652
00:28:44,079 --> 00:28:46,039
on all the other players. But it does become sort

653
00:28:46,039 --> 00:28:48,160
of a different timeline thing to where's hey, like we're

654
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:50,960
gonna compete this year, but like before we're Because even

655
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:52,400
if you don't think Van Fleet was that important to the

656
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,480
championship equity. If Reed Shepherd is who I believe him

657
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:57,200
to be, which we all know that he's going to be,

658
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,000
is that gonna happen immediately or is it gonna take

659
00:29:00,119 --> 00:29:02,759
he needs this? Like who who just comes in The

660
00:29:02,839 --> 00:29:05,759
better bet would be Aman Thompson is just a top

661
00:29:05,839 --> 00:29:08,119
fifteen NBA player by the end of next season because

662
00:29:08,119 --> 00:29:09,599
we have more sample size.

663
00:29:09,599 --> 00:29:12,720
Speaker 3: Or Shanoon for that matter, Like that's that's not off

664
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:13,400
the table at all.

665
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:14,319
Speaker 2: Like he's so stupid.

666
00:29:14,519 --> 00:29:17,319
Speaker 3: He's like twenty two, stupidly young still so like or

667
00:29:17,319 --> 00:29:20,279
maybe twenty three I should know that. Yeah, No, there's

668
00:29:20,359 --> 00:29:22,559
there's avenues for the Rockets to be much better that

669
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,079
have nothing to do with Van Vleet or Duran honestly.

670
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:28,519
Speaker 1: So let's get to our off season grades. What did

671
00:29:28,559 --> 00:29:29,319
you give him?

672
00:29:29,519 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 3: I gave an a We just all the transactions were awesome,

673
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:34,440
Like they've made great moves. It just the van Fleet

674
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,680
injury sort of as we've just spent time discussing changes

675
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:40,319
how they look in the aggregate, But like find me

676
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,759
the move maybe Capella, but that's not like three years,

677
00:29:43,759 --> 00:29:46,079
twenty one million, that's not I'm not gonna let that

678
00:29:46,119 --> 00:29:46,640
knock me down.

679
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 1: From an A, I went to an A minus because

680
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:52,200
I understand why you need it to trade can't win more,

681
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:54,240
but to only get two seconds for him kind of blows.

682
00:29:54,279 --> 00:29:58,160
And then also I had some small issues with the

683
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:01,559
roster construction even before the Fred Van Fleet new so

684
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,079
clearly it wasn't weighted heavily because we both finished in

685
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:07,480
that a territory for them. We are on to our

686
00:30:07,519 --> 00:30:12,440
next team, which is the Memphis Grizzlies, who hired Tumasislow

687
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,279
officially as their permanent head coach, and then they traded

688
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:19,440
Desmond Bane for Cole Anthony Contavious Calbo Pope, the number

689
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:23,000
sixteen pick, which became Jon Hanson a twenty twenty six

690
00:30:23,079 --> 00:30:27,000
first via Orlando Phoenix or Washington a twenty twenty eight first,

691
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,920
a twenty twenty nine first round swap, and a twenty

692
00:30:30,119 --> 00:30:33,720
thirty first. They then traded that number sixteen pick, which

693
00:30:33,759 --> 00:30:38,119
became Young Handsome and Orlando's twenty twenty eight first, Atlanta's

694
00:30:38,119 --> 00:30:42,240
twenty twenty seven second in Sacramento's twenty twenty eight second

695
00:30:42,559 --> 00:30:46,519
to Portland for number eleven Cedric Coward. So that is

696
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,720
they gave up number sixteen, a first round pick, in

697
00:30:49,759 --> 00:30:52,960
two additional seconds to move up five spots. They bought

698
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:56,240
out and stretched the final guaranteed year of Cole Anthony's salary.

699
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:57,799
He will now be on the books for three point

700
00:30:57,839 --> 00:31:01,200
seven million through twenty twenty six seven twenty twenty eight,

701
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:05,160
they renegotiated and extended Jaron Jackson Junior. His total commitment,

702
00:31:05,319 --> 00:31:07,519
including this season, is now five years, two hundred and

703
00:31:07,599 --> 00:31:11,200
forty million. They raised this season's salary by eleven point

704
00:31:11,279 --> 00:31:14,799
six million dollars. His actual extension comes out to four years,

705
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:17,279
two hundred and five million. There's a player option in

706
00:31:17,319 --> 00:31:19,559
the final season and it will average about twenty eight

707
00:31:19,559 --> 00:31:22,480
point eight percent of the salary cap. They signed Ty

708
00:31:22,559 --> 00:31:25,279
Jerome to a three year twenty seven point seven million

709
00:31:25,319 --> 00:31:28,079
dollar deal that was the room exception and it includes

710
00:31:28,119 --> 00:31:30,440
a player option in the final season. They signed Cam

711
00:31:30,519 --> 00:31:32,720
Spencer to a four year ten point four million dollar

712
00:31:32,799 --> 00:31:35,920
deal team option in year four. They re signed Santi

713
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:37,680
al Dama to a three year, fifty two and a

714
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,799
half million dollar deal that has a team option as well.

715
00:31:41,079 --> 00:31:43,640
In the final season. They the most important move they

716
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:46,680
made was signing Jock Landale to a one year minimum contract.

717
00:31:47,279 --> 00:31:49,720
They also drafted Javon Small and number forty eight. He

718
00:31:49,839 --> 00:31:52,960
signed a two way and they traded number fifty six

719
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,799
to Golden State for number fifty nine, which became Jami Mayshack,

720
00:31:57,279 --> 00:32:00,000
along with the rights to Justinian Jessup who was draft

721
00:32:00,039 --> 00:32:01,920
in two thousand and one grant did you Care? And

722
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:06,440
a top fifty protected twirt two second round pick. How's

723
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:09,759
that for a transaction? What did what? This was one

724
00:32:09,799 --> 00:32:12,640
of the harder off seasons for me to make heads

725
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:14,799
or tails of Where did you land on it?

726
00:32:15,319 --> 00:32:17,759
Speaker 3: I think just starting with the Bain trade, We've talked

727
00:32:17,759 --> 00:32:20,640
about this plenty, you just say yes. I think with that,

728
00:32:20,759 --> 00:32:23,480
with that many first on the table and and Baine

729
00:32:23,559 --> 00:32:25,400
not being an All Star and making what he makes,

730
00:32:26,759 --> 00:32:29,799
I'm I'm not like leaping at that, but I think

731
00:32:30,079 --> 00:32:32,640
ultimately that return is just it's good enough for a

732
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:37,160
player of Bain's caliber where you you're okay with that.

733
00:32:38,079 --> 00:32:41,279
I think the Jackson negotiation, the Jackson deal, that's that's

734
00:32:41,319 --> 00:32:41,920
market rates.

735
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 2: That's fine.

736
00:32:42,759 --> 00:32:45,359
Speaker 3: I love getting team options on al Dama and Spencer,

737
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:47,359
and I think just the numbers for Aldama three for

738
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,680
fifty two, that's that's I mean he's gonna matter. I

739
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:54,319
like the front course shooting he provides theoretically, don't know

740
00:32:54,359 --> 00:32:55,960
of how I feel about the What did you think

741
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:59,480
about the Ty Jerome signing specifically, because like you have Jaw,

742
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:03,920
you have Scotty Pippen junior like that, and Jerome I

743
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:07,440
think didn't really like didn't do a whole lot to

744
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:09,640
suggest that his great regular season was going to be

745
00:33:09,759 --> 00:33:13,240
like viable as a playoff thing, so as like a

746
00:33:13,279 --> 00:33:16,079
third guard, I guess, or may fourth maybe if KCP

747
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,079
is better than he was in Orlando, which wouldn't be hard.

748
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,039
How did you put out that move specifically?

749
00:33:23,079 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 1: It felt like that was fine, Like you're into it.

750
00:33:25,519 --> 00:33:27,559
You mentioned it John Moran like you need to get

751
00:33:27,559 --> 00:33:30,039
through the regular seasons, you can get through the playoffs.

752
00:33:30,039 --> 00:33:31,759
And so I think that that's more unless you thought

753
00:33:31,799 --> 00:33:34,359
that Cam Spencer really needs to take on more of

754
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:36,799
a role. I think that having tied Jerome with this

755
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:38,279
number is is totally cool.

756
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,319
Speaker 3: And I think, like, so you're talking in playoff terms

757
00:33:41,519 --> 00:33:43,480
and getting through the regular seat, like we didn't really

758
00:33:43,559 --> 00:33:47,440
lay out like what Memphis' intentions were well, and I

759
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,599
I think if you're being really critical the bane for

760
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:54,759
picks and and you believe that Memphis is actually pretty

761
00:33:54,759 --> 00:33:56,759
close to being in the contender class. The bane for

762
00:33:56,759 --> 00:33:59,400
picks trade is a bad trade like that if that's

763
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:01,440
what you think, If you think that the Grizzlies are

764
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:03,680
in the business of trying to get as good as

765
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:05,799
they can right now, then that trade doesn't make sense.

766
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:08,719
I'm just not convinced. I think this was more of

767
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:10,960
a like, we need to reevaluate what our core pieces

768
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,800
look like and get more flexible, which is which is fine.

769
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,119
Speaker 1: But I think that's fine. But here's the thing is

770
00:34:17,159 --> 00:34:21,360
that you said that you have or you're implicitly saying

771
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:25,440
you have your two faces of the next title contender

772
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:28,519
in John Moran and Jared Jackson Junior, who you just paid,

773
00:34:29,039 --> 00:34:31,599
and then to make that trade with Desmond Bane and

774
00:34:31,679 --> 00:34:34,079
not use the then turn around and trade two of

775
00:34:34,119 --> 00:34:36,920
those picks to get someone who's still just a rookie

776
00:34:37,039 --> 00:34:39,920
while getting up other assets in the process. It sends

777
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,440
a lot of mixed messages here, and I think there's

778
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:46,440
some sort of it. There's like a functional dichotomy to

779
00:34:46,519 --> 00:34:48,960
the way that the Grizzlies are existing right now. It's

780
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:52,119
not too timeliney. I would just argue I don't necessarily

781
00:34:52,199 --> 00:34:55,159
know what the timeline is per se. It's like, do

782
00:34:55,199 --> 00:34:57,719
they really expect to be near the top of the

783
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:01,199
Western Conference this season? And if not, but how do

784
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,719
they envision getting there by let's I would say twenty

785
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,239
twenty six at the latest? Is it via trade? Are

786
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:10,159
you that high on Cedric Coward who wasn't healthy to

787
00:35:10,199 --> 00:35:14,480
play in in summer league? So it's all of their transactions.

788
00:35:14,599 --> 00:35:17,840
I think the Bain one is yeah, that value, okay,

789
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:20,519
take it. But then to have already knifed into those

790
00:35:20,599 --> 00:35:23,079
assets the way they did for Cedric Coward, that's it.

791
00:35:23,119 --> 00:35:25,599
I'm not saying it's the wrong move. It's just an

792
00:35:25,639 --> 00:35:27,639
interesting one that seems like it's at odds what they

793
00:35:27,679 --> 00:35:30,079
should be doing at a time when you have John

794
00:35:30,119 --> 00:35:34,360
Morant and you just renegotiated and extended Jaron Jackson junior.

795
00:35:35,079 --> 00:35:37,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean a lot would seem to depend on

796
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:43,119
Coward being a player that really matters, probably sooner than later.

797
00:35:43,519 --> 00:35:45,760
Although it's although again like to distinguish this from the

798
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,000
New Orleans trade for example, like that Orlando twenty eight

799
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:50,400
first has nowhere near the upside of of what that

800
00:35:51,199 --> 00:35:53,400
the pick that Atlanta got in that deal was so

801
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:55,400
it's like, you see these two trades, like, well, why

802
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:58,119
isn't anyone talking about the Grizzlies. Okay, it's a little

803
00:35:58,159 --> 00:36:00,679
different in terms of upside.

804
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:02,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's all fair.

805
00:36:02,559 --> 00:36:05,599
Speaker 3: I I mean, do you do we ding them for

806
00:36:05,599 --> 00:36:10,199
for not like clearly putting forth like here's what our

807
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:12,519
goal is. Because at the same time, it's like, well,

808
00:36:12,519 --> 00:36:15,079
maybe they were just opportunistic twice maybe like the Baine

809
00:36:15,119 --> 00:36:17,000
trade was like yeah, we'll do that, and then they

810
00:36:17,079 --> 00:36:18,840
really like coward and it's like, yeah, that's worth it.

811
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:21,800
That Orlando pick is going to be twenty fifth. Who cares,

812
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,559
We'll give up sixteen to move up five spots. Like,

813
00:36:24,639 --> 00:36:27,199
I don't know, it feels like we're being inconsistent if

814
00:36:27,199 --> 00:36:30,360
we don't really hit them for like doing some from

815
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:32,519
column A and some from columb and not having a

816
00:36:32,559 --> 00:36:34,679
super clear like vision or plan.

817
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:37,280
Speaker 1: But well what I don't know, asking you what if

818
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:40,320
you can't You said at the top of this podcast

819
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:43,239
that if we can't discern what their plan is, that's

820
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:45,280
a bad thing. I'm asking you what, what is the

821
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:47,679
Grizzlies plan? What was their goal this offseason?

822
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:48,400
Speaker 2: I don't know.

823
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:50,320
Speaker 3: I think I would say, I would cop out and say,

824
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:54,199
like to be opportunistic, and but that doesn't align with like,

825
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:55,880
are we trying to win now?

826
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:57,360
Speaker 2: Are we trying to win in two years? Are we

827
00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:59,440
trying to be good in five? Like? I don't know,

828
00:36:59,519 --> 00:37:00,960
so maybe we do have to hit them for that.

829
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 1: It felt to me my read is that they were

830
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:07,960
trying to be more flexible moving forward without compromising the

831
00:37:08,039 --> 00:37:12,840
product immediately, and that they did recognize what they had

832
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:15,719
in place either wasn't good enough to win a title,

833
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:17,840
which I think we can all agree it wasn't, or

834
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:19,880
that they weren't prepared to reinvest in it and then

835
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:22,800
continue building towards that title. I will dig them for

836
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:25,119
the second one because I think Keith Parris said this

837
00:37:25,159 --> 00:37:28,280
when we did The Grizzlies Look Ahead. It sucks like

838
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:29,920
remember when the Grizzlies were so young, and it's like

839
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:31,639
everyone's waiting for them to get that next guy so

840
00:37:31,639 --> 00:37:33,840
that they can contend with these guys as they get

841
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:36,559
more expensive, those you know, the Jared Jackson Junior, John Morant,

842
00:37:36,559 --> 00:37:39,400
Desmond Bine. Now you have to trade one of them

843
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:42,119
because they didn't pan out, Like just because what did

844
00:37:42,119 --> 00:37:45,400
they ever? What was the swing they ever made alongside

845
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:46,880
the three of them, they didn't.

846
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:49,320
Speaker 2: I mean, they made a lot of bad like half swings.

847
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:52,159
Speaker 3: You know, We've done the transaction tree of the Marcus

848
00:37:52,199 --> 00:37:54,440
Smart of it All and all that stuff. I think

849
00:37:54,679 --> 00:37:56,480
the more we talk about it, the more I think

850
00:37:56,519 --> 00:38:00,960
maybe what maybe the thinking was, we're not good enough

851
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:05,079
with Bain on his number as like a big three

852
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:08,440
to justify how inflexible we are salary wise. So we

853
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:10,440
need to get into a position where we're like the

854
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:11,440
next best thing.

855
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:11,800
Speaker 2: You know what I mean.

856
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,760
Speaker 3: Like it feels like maybe that was what it sort

857
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:16,400
of came down to. And I think, as I'm saying that,

858
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:18,440
that is a little bit of what maybe we discussed

859
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:19,159
with Keith too.

860
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:21,679
Speaker 2: It's just this.

861
00:38:21,639 --> 00:38:24,920
Speaker 3: Wasn't a title contender with Bain. We still love the

862
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:27,480
other two guys, and Jackson and Moran as a corps,

863
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:29,840
as cores I'm speaking as the Grizzlies now, not necessarily

864
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:33,960
you and me. So so maybe we just need to

865
00:38:34,039 --> 00:38:38,559
position ourselves to go get the guy that we need

866
00:38:38,599 --> 00:38:41,280
in that third spot somehow, And maybe we believe that's

867
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:43,599
coward and maybe we believe these picks and some of

868
00:38:43,599 --> 00:38:45,800
the more moderate salaries we got are the way we

869
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:46,199
do that.

870
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:48,519
Speaker 1: I don't know I would say if I had to

871
00:38:48,559 --> 00:38:51,199
sum this up in like a word or two, I

872
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:54,719
would just call this offseason non committal, which I feel

873
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:57,119
even though they paid Jaron Jackson Junior over the long

874
00:38:57,239 --> 00:38:59,679
term and that, by the way, John Rant's extension eligible

875
00:39:00,039 --> 00:39:02,360
and get one. So I don't think that there's a

876
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:04,599
problem in what they're doing. I just don't look at

877
00:39:04,599 --> 00:39:07,519
it as this offseason home like they were brilliant and

878
00:39:07,559 --> 00:39:10,280
they were ahead of the eight ball or anything like that.

879
00:39:11,159 --> 00:39:13,199
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would call it noncommittal, but I don't want

880
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:15,320
to be tied down to one word, so I won't

881
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:17,800
uh us right, both of us just what.

882
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:20,320
Speaker 1: It funds like we just I'm sure people we mad.

883
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:22,039
We kind of just slammed them, and we gave them

884
00:39:22,039 --> 00:39:24,880
an average I don't know what the above average move was.

885
00:39:25,199 --> 00:39:28,039
I guess you could argue I like the Cam Spencer

886
00:39:28,119 --> 00:39:30,719
deal like the Bain deal. Is that the closest thing

887
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:33,199
to like? Oh, they they made an above and you

888
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:35,639
know how I feel about having to like use cap

889
00:39:35,639 --> 00:39:37,840
space to pay your own players before their due. I

890
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:40,599
understand it builds goodwill, but that's also money you could

891
00:39:40,599 --> 00:39:44,280
have used to improve the team. So I think that

892
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:46,800
they're gonna be good if they're healthy. I just I

893
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:51,079
don't fully understand what the intention of is for this season.

894
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,159
Is where I'm at with them? Do you want to

895
00:39:53,199 --> 00:39:55,960
take us through our next team? Do I?

896
00:39:56,679 --> 00:39:57,239
Speaker 2: Here we go?

897
00:39:57,840 --> 00:39:58,199
Speaker 1: All right?

898
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 3: The New Orleans Pelicans, we have talked about them at all.

899
00:40:02,199 --> 00:40:05,559
They fired David Griffin, they replaced David Griffin. Well, I

900
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:07,800
just say they hired Joe Dumars and Troy Weaver to

901
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:11,440
make decisions. Your mileage may vary on who's actually calling

902
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:15,880
the shots. There hard to say they traded this is

903
00:40:15,519 --> 00:40:18,840
this one goes under the radar. They traded Indiana's twenty

904
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:22,039
six first back to Indiana for number twenty three, which

905
00:40:22,039 --> 00:40:24,280
became Ason Newell and the rights to Mohave King number

906
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:25,639
forty seven and twenty twenty three.

907
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:27,159
Speaker 2: That turned out well for the Pacers.

908
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:29,679
Speaker 3: That was before Tyres Halbert and tore his achilles, and

909
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:31,920
now they have the ability to bottom out should they

910
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:35,239
so choose. The Pelicans drafted Jeremiah Fears at number seven.

911
00:40:35,679 --> 00:40:38,599
Then they traded number twenty three Ason Newell and at

912
00:40:38,599 --> 00:40:42,000
twenty six first most favorable from Indiana or their own

913
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:46,760
unprotected to Atlanta for number thirteen. They drafted Derek Queen,

914
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:49,800
who has had rist surgery. In the interim, they traded

915
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:52,079
Mohave King to Houston CG. This is the big trade

916
00:40:52,119 --> 00:40:55,800
for CJ. McCollum, Kelly LINOK and Chicago's twenty twenty seven

917
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:58,760
second to the Wizards for Jordan pool Sadik Bay and

918
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,320
number forty, which became like. They signed PV to a

919
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:03,880
four year deal with the second round exception. The first

920
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:06,360
two years of that dealer guaranteed. Then they sign Kavan

921
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:08,480
Looney to a two year, sixteen million dollars deal A

922
00:41:08,559 --> 00:41:11,679
plus there that's an eight million flat over both seasons.

923
00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:14,679
Twenty six twenty seven is a team option. And then

924
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:17,239
Herb Jones got three years and sixty seven point six

925
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:20,559
million in an extension. So his new total deal including

926
00:41:20,639 --> 00:41:23,840
this coming season is five years, ninety six point four million.

927
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:27,599
That extension actually kicks in in twenty six twenty seven. Yeah, Milwaukee,

928
00:41:27,599 --> 00:41:28,800
sorry Milwaukee and Nororland.

929
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:31,519
Speaker 1: No, no, no, don't you apologize. I put these together and

930
00:41:31,559 --> 00:41:36,440
this is the second time I made that typo. I apologized, Well, they.

931
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:37,159
Speaker 2: Did make it a trade.

932
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:40,599
Speaker 3: To clarify everybody, knows this anyway, though, the number twenty

933
00:41:40,599 --> 00:41:42,760
three and the twenty six first is the most favorable

934
00:41:43,079 --> 00:41:46,800
of the Bucks and Pelicans to Atlanta for thirteen. So

935
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:50,159
because I love this trend that you're trying to start,

936
00:41:50,199 --> 00:41:52,639
I think everyone needs to do this. On Herb Jones,

937
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:55,119
his average salary is going to be twelve point three

938
00:41:55,119 --> 00:41:55,800
percent of the cap.

939
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:58,840
Speaker 2: We need to start using those terms. So, Dan, what

940
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:01,559
do you want to talk about first with what Roon's Pelicans?

941
00:42:01,679 --> 00:42:02,360
What's good here?

942
00:42:03,159 --> 00:42:05,320
Speaker 1: What's their redeeming part of their offseason? I think it's

943
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:08,199
the Herb Jones extension. Sure, that's a great I'm surprised

944
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:10,000
he signed it. I thought he would have waited another

945
00:42:10,079 --> 00:42:12,239
year to like lock down more money, if like more

946
00:42:12,559 --> 00:42:14,800
years and guaranteed money, because I'm assuming they would have

947
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:17,039
given it to him. But who knows, I don't. I mean,

948
00:42:17,079 --> 00:42:19,239
their offseason sucks. I don't know. Who needs to sit

949
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:21,920
here and defend it, but it was I'll listen to it.

950
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:25,920
What I say isn't gospel. But I feel a little

951
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:28,400
bit better about Jeremiah Fears as a prospect after watching

952
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:30,519
him in Summer League. But if you I didn't look

953
00:42:30,519 --> 00:42:32,239
at him and think if you thought so highly of

954
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:35,519
Derek Queen that I wanted both Fears, and no, I

955
00:42:35,559 --> 00:42:37,559
would have just taken Derek Queen over Jeremiah Fears and

956
00:42:37,599 --> 00:42:40,000
dealt with not having Fears or dealt with not having Queen.

957
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:43,039
I also just it's okay to value Queen a bunch,

958
00:42:43,079 --> 00:42:45,920
but it doesn't make any sense if Zion Williamson is

959
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:47,920
still your tent poll, which is the messaging that you're

960
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:50,280
sending out there, And so I think we need to begin.

961
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:53,039
Even though we're into this, the question is, Grant, what

962
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:55,239
were they trying to do this offseason?

963
00:42:56,920 --> 00:42:59,119
Speaker 3: I think I guess I would boil it down to

964
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:03,159
they had they were trying to get their guys, and

965
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:06,039
I think that's just Queen's the guy they just decided

966
00:43:06,079 --> 00:43:09,639
they had to have, because otherwise, like you, you just

967
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:12,559
don't make a trade that pulls the safety net out

968
00:43:12,559 --> 00:43:16,400
from under you a year after you just saw injuries

969
00:43:16,679 --> 00:43:20,880
drop you to twenty one wins. Like you, you can't

970
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:24,480
make that trade full stop, but just they did. So

971
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:29,000
you can't make that trade unless Queen is someone You're

972
00:43:29,039 --> 00:43:31,480
just like, we must have this player. And then even

973
00:43:31,519 --> 00:43:35,000
that logic is idiotic because you had the seventh pick two,

974
00:43:35,119 --> 00:43:37,360
and you could have taken this guy there and had

975
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:42,440
your unprotected first next year. Like I just so, I

976
00:43:42,639 --> 00:43:45,719
just don't understand it. I even trying to give them

977
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:47,840
the benefit of the doubt. I don't know what the

978
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:50,920
argument is justifying that Draft night trade, Like I sort

979
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:51,920
of just can't get there.

980
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:55,280
Speaker 1: No, I can't get there either. And it's just interesting that, Okay,

981
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:57,000
they make that trade before they know about the TI

982
00:43:57,119 --> 00:43:59,800
the previous one, about the Tyres Haliburn injury. They were

983
00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:01,639
just I guess they're punting on the twenty twenty six

984
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:04,559
drafts all together was always their intention, which.

985
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:08,320
Speaker 2: Has the guy they must like. I just you can't.

986
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:10,320
You can't give up these twenty six picks. You can't

987
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:10,519
do it.

988
00:44:10,559 --> 00:44:12,760
Speaker 3: If you're the Pelicans, You're built around Zion, who could

989
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:14,760
fall apart in any time. Your whole team was hurt

990
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:17,039
last year. You know how bad it can get, Like

991
00:44:17,119 --> 00:44:21,519
I just giving up draft equity. Sorry, go ahead, you

992
00:44:21,559 --> 00:44:22,679
were saying no.

993
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:25,280
Speaker 1: And by the way, the Jordan Pool trade to me

994
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:27,480
was bad as well. It's oh yeah, where you are

995
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:30,519
with the Pelicans is one of like the cheapest, stingiest

996
00:44:30,599 --> 00:44:35,119
organizations in maybe all of pro sports. But certainly the NBA.

997
00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:37,440
Why are you taking on the extra year of Jordan

998
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:39,599
Poole's salary? It was a just to get back to

999
00:44:39,679 --> 00:44:42,079
Deep Bay so that Troy Weaver could be reunited and

1000
00:44:42,079 --> 00:44:45,440
feel so good. I don't like, I don't under I

1001
00:44:45,519 --> 00:44:49,480
understand Jordan Poole has more of the like off the

1002
00:44:49,559 --> 00:44:53,000
dribble three element plus rim finishing than CJ. McCollum is

1003
00:44:53,039 --> 00:44:56,960
going to have. But you also drafted Jeremiah Fears and

1004
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:59,480
you have Dejante Murray coming back at some point, So

1005
00:45:00,079 --> 00:45:02,000
I don't know what I honestly, I look at it

1006
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:03,639
more through the lens of I don't know. Are you

1007
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:06,079
not planning on playing Jeremiah for years a ton? And

1008
00:45:06,119 --> 00:45:08,400
it's also you are you not planning on playing Derek

1009
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:10,360
Queen a ton once he's healthy either? When you look

1010
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:13,400
at the way the front court is populated, this is

1011
00:45:14,159 --> 00:45:17,199
to me, it's one of the most incoherent offseasons that

1012
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:19,760
I have ever seen, because I don't understand what the

1013
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:22,639
plan is here, and it would I would be willing

1014
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:26,199
to bet a not insubstantial amount of money that they

1015
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:29,920
traded away a lottery pick to move up ten spots

1016
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:32,800
in the draft, which is just a no.

1017
00:45:32,559 --> 00:45:35,719
Speaker 3: No, and and I think and you talked about this

1018
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:40,119
on the Pelicans Look Ahead too. I just don't think

1019
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:45,199
anything can happen, like from Queen making first Team All

1020
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:49,480
Rookie to Jordan Poole having a great season to you

1021
00:45:49,559 --> 00:45:52,679
name it. I don't feel like anything can happen here

1022
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:56,159
that's gonna justify the thinking that went into the decisions

1023
00:45:56,159 --> 00:45:58,679
in the first place. Like it just you know, does

1024
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:01,440
that make sense? Like from a pross versus results standpoint,

1025
00:46:01,519 --> 00:46:04,159
Like it's just insanity some of these moves they made.

1026
00:46:04,199 --> 00:46:07,280
Speaker 1: So it's like you and I said after the Lukadanca trade,

1027
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:09,320
is that the Mavericks could have won the title last

1028
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:11,599
year after that and just still have been losers of

1029
00:46:11,639 --> 00:46:13,880
the trade because of how much meat they left on

1030
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:15,960
the bone. And by the way, the other thing we

1031
00:46:16,039 --> 00:46:20,800
haven't mentioned, but not giving whether they deserve it the

1032
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:23,400
latitude to make this decision, but not giving Troy Weaver

1033
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:26,639
and Joe Dumars the agency to change the head coach

1034
00:46:26,679 --> 00:46:29,039
when he is headed into the final year of his contract,

1035
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:31,320
and so now he has that lame duck status that

1036
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:33,920
is also not a harbinger of an organization that knows

1037
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:34,480
what it's doing.

1038
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:35,119
Speaker 2: Yep.

1039
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:38,679
Speaker 1: Agree, So our grades, I would say, what a minus

1040
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:39,480
across the board?

1041
00:46:39,519 --> 00:46:43,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty good? Yeah you you went F minus. I

1042
00:46:43,079 --> 00:46:44,079
respect it. I went F.

1043
00:46:44,159 --> 00:46:45,760
Speaker 3: I just didn't have any A pluses, so I didn't

1044
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:46,719
give any F minuses.

1045
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:50,199
Speaker 2: This is spoiler. I guess this is the worst offseason

1046
00:46:50,199 --> 00:46:52,679
in the league. It's not close. So if there were,

1047
00:46:53,119 --> 00:46:54,920
if I gave F minuses.

1048
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:56,480
Speaker 1: There's one team that I think can give them a

1049
00:46:56,519 --> 00:46:58,559
run for their money, because.

1050
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:01,280
Speaker 2: That's a better team. I guess at least, I.

1051
00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:04,119
Speaker 1: At least liked the Herb Jones extension, but it just

1052
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:09,000
wasn't like that's not enough to redeem everything else. No, short,

1053
00:47:09,159 --> 00:47:11,639
I mean, if we're having this, if we're doing regrades

1054
00:47:11,679 --> 00:47:14,639
a year from now, and what would Darrek Queen have

1055
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:17,920
needed to do and the Pelicans need to do for

1056
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:21,400
you to even think about? Okay, is it? Because even

1057
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:24,199
if they make the playoffs, is that Like is that

1058
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:25,920
enough for you? It's like, Okay, we only sent out

1059
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:27,960
like a first round pick in the late teens.

1060
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:32,679
Speaker 3: I don't, no, because of the opportunity costs, because of

1061
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:35,320
the other paths you could have taken with those assets.

1062
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:37,000
Speaker 2: It's like I said, like I just don't. I don't

1063
00:47:37,039 --> 00:47:37,920
know what could happen.

1064
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:40,000
Speaker 3: I can't think of anything that would happen, that could

1065
00:47:40,039 --> 00:47:42,960
happen that would make me change my opinion about what

1066
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:43,400
they did.

1067
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:48,440
Speaker 1: Let's round out the Southwest Division with another fairly confusing

1068
00:47:48,559 --> 00:47:50,280
offseason from or at least it was tough for me

1069
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:52,480
to grade, I should say not confusing, but the San

1070
00:47:52,559 --> 00:47:56,280
Antonio Spurs signed Mitch Johnson as their permanent head coach.

1071
00:47:56,559 --> 00:47:59,320
They drafted Dylan Harper at number two. They drafted Carter

1072
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:02,960
Bryant at fourteen. They traded number thirty eight Cam Jones

1073
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:05,519
to Indiana for Sacramentos twenty thirty second and two and

1074
00:48:05,559 --> 00:48:08,519
a half million dollars in cash. They signed Dearon Fox

1075
00:48:08,519 --> 00:48:10,760
to a four year, two hundred and twenty three point

1076
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:14,840
seven million dollar max extension kicks in in twenty twenty six.

1077
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:18,079
There are no options and it will average projected about

1078
00:48:18,079 --> 00:48:21,159
thirty one percent of the salary cap. They signed Luke

1079
00:48:21,159 --> 00:48:23,400
Cornette to a four year, forty point seven million dollar

1080
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:26,320
deal that is on a declining scale and it includes

1081
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:29,559
a team option on the final season. They traded Blake Wesley,

1082
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:33,320
Malachi Branham and a twenty twenty six second to Washington

1083
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:36,760
for Kelly Olenick. That second round pick is the least

1084
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:39,880
favorable from Dallas, Philly or Oklahoma City. They signed Jordan

1085
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:42,840
McLoughlin to a one year minimum deal. They signed our guy,

1086
00:48:43,039 --> 00:48:45,199
Lindy Waters the third to a one year minimum deal

1087
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:47,719
that's five hundred k guaranteed, so I'm pretty sure he's

1088
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:50,480
gonna start. And David Jones Garcia, who was a summer

1089
00:48:50,559 --> 00:48:53,199
league favorite for a lot of people, signed a two way.

1090
00:48:54,039 --> 00:48:58,239
I I think, Grant, what's interesting about the Spurs offseason

1091
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:01,039
is how do you think the draft lot reimpacted how

1092
00:49:01,039 --> 00:49:03,440
they went about their off season and what were they

1093
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:04,039
trying to do?

1094
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:07,719
Speaker 3: How did the draft law or just just the fact

1095
00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:09,679
that they wind up getting two and fourteen.

1096
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:12,559
Speaker 1: Well, the fact they end up getting two because you

1097
00:49:12,599 --> 00:49:14,840
had you traded for de Aaron Fox, now you're drafting

1098
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:17,920
Dylan Harper, how do you think that informed how they

1099
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:19,280
went about their off season at all?

1100
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:22,599
Speaker 3: I mean, it's I guess what you're getting at is

1101
00:49:22,679 --> 00:49:26,000
like it seems less than ideal that the guy you

1102
00:49:26,079 --> 00:49:29,079
traded for plays the position of the guy that you drafted,

1103
00:49:29,119 --> 00:49:31,440
and kind of also the position of the guy that

1104
00:49:31,559 --> 00:49:34,800
just won Rookie of the Year for you. I still

1105
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:38,920
don't feel like that's I think it's still a good

1106
00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:41,559
thing objectively that they wound up at two, even if

1107
00:49:41,599 --> 00:49:44,519
like we're probably gonna be talking about the guard glut

1108
00:49:44,519 --> 00:49:47,039
here what was the Phoenix one?

1109
00:49:47,079 --> 00:49:48,000
Speaker 2: Like a thousand years ago.

1110
00:49:48,039 --> 00:49:50,320
Speaker 3: It's like, Oh, they have Isaiah Thomas and Goran Dragic

1111
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:52,719
and some third guy who I can't remember. Eric Caruso

1112
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:55,840
shout out, Eric bludsoe, uh, how's it gonna work? Like

1113
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:59,480
we'll probably be talking about that for a while. I'd

1114
00:49:59,519 --> 00:50:02,119
still just like, again, we're not giving them positive grades

1115
00:50:02,159 --> 00:50:05,400
for lucking into number two, but that's still better than

1116
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:06,119
the alternative.

1117
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:08,679
Speaker 1: I guess I wasn't saying that having number two is

1118
00:50:08,679 --> 00:50:10,920
potentially a bad thing. I was just wondering that had

1119
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:14,079
they not gotten number two, let's say they'd gotten wherever

1120
00:50:14,119 --> 00:50:16,039
they were projected to land, would they've been more likely

1121
00:50:16,119 --> 00:50:19,800
to look at at trades to make themselves Because in

1122
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:23,000
my head, I actually think that Dylan Harper having that

1123
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:26,159
draft pick and this is probably the correct response by

1124
00:50:26,199 --> 00:50:28,360
the way, sort of forced them to be a little

1125
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:30,440
bit more restrained. Now this is the spurs they might

1126
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:32,199
have always done that, but I think when you land

1127
00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:35,519
with a number two pick, I feel like it prompted

1128
00:50:35,559 --> 00:50:38,519
them to be more restrained than they ultimately were going

1129
00:50:38,559 --> 00:50:40,760
to be had they not landed inside the top three

1130
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:42,440
or four of the draft order.

1131
00:50:42,519 --> 00:50:45,159
Speaker 3: That's interesting because what I was gonna say is based

1132
00:50:45,199 --> 00:50:48,360
on what they did, which I would describe as measured

1133
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:51,800
more or less for all of their moves this offseason,

1134
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:55,159
that maybe that's what they were gonna do all along regardless.

1135
00:50:55,159 --> 00:50:57,719
It's just like, because the alternative is we swing a

1136
00:50:57,719 --> 00:50:59,960
deal to try to get another player of the life

1137
00:51:00,079 --> 00:51:05,039
like fox Cat level. Now, you know, and I don't

1138
00:51:05,039 --> 00:51:07,719
know if that was ever really in the cards. Hard

1139
00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:09,800
to know, right, Like, it's just we can't. We can't

1140
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:14,039
know the road not taken overall though, Like measured is

1141
00:51:14,039 --> 00:51:16,039
the word I keep coming back to, just like, yes,

1142
00:51:16,079 --> 00:51:17,800
you take Harper at too, Carter br I think we

1143
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:21,360
both really like Carter Bryant. If defensively offensive, yeah, if

1144
00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:23,840
he can do anything on offense, that's a player. And

1145
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:26,400
then like the Cornett deal makes total sense, great number

1146
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:29,440
team option. You can use him with Wemby, I think

1147
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:33,079
that's fine. Or he's the best backup Wemby's had in

1148
00:51:33,119 --> 00:51:35,400
a while or ever, I say it a while, like

1149
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:35,840
he's been.

1150
00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:36,239
Speaker 1: Around for it.

1151
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:39,360
Speaker 2: In his storied career.

1152
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:43,679
Speaker 3: Uh yeah, so that you know there there's not a

1153
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:46,039
lot of fireworks here. I do think we should talk

1154
00:51:46,079 --> 00:51:51,119
about the Fox deal. No options is good. The thirty

1155
00:51:51,119 --> 00:51:54,239
one percent of the cap. I'm really like, could they

1156
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:57,079
have was there some room here to I mean, this

1157
00:51:57,199 --> 00:51:59,159
is probably a situation where the deal was agreed to

1158
00:51:59,159 --> 00:52:01,199
when they traded for him, But I would have been

1159
00:52:01,239 --> 00:52:03,599
a lot of a lot more positive on their offseason

1160
00:52:03,639 --> 00:52:07,880
if they've been able to get this number down just

1161
00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:10,119
a little bit, because I I don't know.

1162
00:52:10,159 --> 00:52:11,639
Speaker 2: I think Fox is a really good player.

1163
00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:15,079
Speaker 3: I just it's hard for me to imagine him being

1164
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:19,840
the best possible option at number two, you know, behind Wimby.

1165
00:52:20,599 --> 00:52:23,039
Speaker 2: What are you okay with the deal? No options is nice?

1166
00:52:23,039 --> 00:52:26,559
Speaker 1: I guess yeah. I'm I'm still curious like the trade itself,

1167
00:52:26,639 --> 00:52:29,960
the deal is probably going to be close to fine

1168
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:32,280
he was. I've mentioned this many times, but like I'm

1169
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:34,199
viewing like him and Trey Young is sort of these

1170
00:52:34,199 --> 00:52:37,719
flashbowl moments of Okay, what players will still get potential

1171
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:39,960
max contracts. I'm with you in the sense that the

1172
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:42,880
deal was probably agreed to when they made the trade.

1173
00:52:43,519 --> 00:52:46,320
I'm I'm just curious how much did they like the

1174
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:49,519
Aaron Fox's fit on the roster versus, well, he's not

1175
00:52:49,559 --> 00:52:51,639
costing us too much and he wants to come here,

1176
00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:54,599
and that's why it felt like he was sort of

1177
00:52:54,639 --> 00:52:58,280
a matter of convenience star acquisition rather than one that

1178
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:03,039
they actively target who maybe even necessarily liked. I think

1179
00:53:03,559 --> 00:53:06,719
that ultimately he has shown in really only a season

1180
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:09,239
or two that like the shooting can get better. But

1181
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:12,480
I think having someone who really gets into the teeth

1182
00:53:12,519 --> 00:53:15,199
of defenses at least has the mid range touch can

1183
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:17,760
hit these off the rebel jumpers will force defenses to

1184
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:20,920
guard him in that way. One of the biggest complaints

1185
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:23,199
everyone has about women Yama is that he's not in

1186
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:25,239
the paint enough. And i'm't even talking about they want

1187
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:26,599
him to post up. They wanted to get more of

1188
00:53:26,639 --> 00:53:29,800
these easy paint touches and finishes. There was no personnel

1189
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:32,320
around him that was going to help him do that.

1190
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:34,800
Now you have Fox, Ellen Dylan Harper, who are going

1191
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:36,199
to help you do that. I don't know if like

1192
00:53:36,239 --> 00:53:38,360
Castle's gonna get to that point with the way defenses

1193
00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:41,480
are going to guard him. But what I would criticize

1194
00:53:41,559 --> 00:53:44,239
is if you're going to go this route, you need

1195
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:47,000
to figure out a way to make sure that the

1196
00:53:47,039 --> 00:53:51,719
fate of your floor spacing isn't almost exclusively tied to

1197
00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:53,920
your front court. Because if you look at the best

1198
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:56,800
front the floor spacers on this team, it's Wemby what

1199
00:53:56,920 --> 00:53:58,760
is it Louke Cornett? Now, like is he gonna be

1200
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:02,960
taking threes? And it's after that Harrison Barnes and so okay, yeah,

1201
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:06,199
you have Devin Vessel in the and our guy Lindy

1202
00:54:06,239 --> 00:54:08,320
Waters Now like what is Dylan Harper gonna shoot as

1203
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:10,320
a rookie? So I would have liked to have seen

1204
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:14,159
them gotten Like because you have Castle Harper, I'm assuming

1205
00:54:14,199 --> 00:54:16,400
there's gonna be three guard units, like just to not

1206
00:54:16,559 --> 00:54:20,360
surround like have another wing shooter on this team feels

1207
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:21,920
like a miss here, But I don't when you look

1208
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:25,679
at their transaction sheet, Grant is the only I guess

1209
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:28,800
move that you could quibble quibble like Kelly Olynock, that's

1210
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:31,039
another like they leaned into flour spacing in the front court.

1211
00:54:31,719 --> 00:54:33,760
I guess it would only be the Fox contract though,

1212
00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:35,599
is do you think they should have squeezed a little harder,

1213
00:54:35,599 --> 00:54:37,760
and I think they could have. I just don't know

1214
00:54:38,719 --> 00:54:41,679
what's the number that you would have come out of saying, oh,

1215
00:54:41,719 --> 00:54:44,360
like they got Like if he would have taken what

1216
00:54:44,559 --> 00:54:46,400
three million bucks less the season? Do you think that

1217
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:48,119
makes the deal infinitely more tradable?

1218
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:51,199
Speaker 3: That that's the reason I can't get one, right, I

1219
00:54:51,199 --> 00:54:52,519
can't get too low at all.

1220
00:54:52,559 --> 00:54:54,039
Speaker 2: I'm not low on this offseason.

1221
00:54:54,039 --> 00:54:55,840
Speaker 3: I think it was pretty good, but like that's what

1222
00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:58,440
you're talking about, right, like it and it could have

1223
00:54:58,480 --> 00:55:01,119
saved three to five million a year maybe or something

1224
00:55:01,159 --> 00:55:03,840
like that, and maybe as like a tit for tat

1225
00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:05,559
there you have to give a team a player option.

1226
00:55:05,679 --> 00:55:07,239
That's the only way he takes the lower number, And

1227
00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:09,760
we wouldn't have loved that. And also it might have

1228
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:13,159
been a hey, will you take no? And then conversation

1229
00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:15,480
over like you just I guess you don't have to

1230
00:55:15,559 --> 00:55:20,280
extend him still, Like I I you're right, Like that's

1231
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:22,280
the only one that I would look at and just

1232
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:24,360
like just a little bit of a squint like maybe

1233
00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:26,719
there was more there, but but also maybe there wasn't.

1234
00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:29,599
Speaker 1: Look, they avoided a team option and a trade kicker.

1235
00:55:29,599 --> 00:55:31,360
It looks like, so they didn't come out of it,

1236
00:55:31,639 --> 00:55:35,079
good job, Phils. Where did you end up giving them?

1237
00:55:35,719 --> 00:55:38,960
Speaker 3: I give him a C plus nothing like spectacular here,

1238
00:55:39,679 --> 00:55:41,679
but also obviously like there's not a I don't there's

1239
00:55:41,679 --> 00:55:43,199
definitely not a bad move.

1240
00:55:43,519 --> 00:55:45,599
Speaker 2: I don't think so slightly above average.

1241
00:55:46,079 --> 00:55:47,679
Speaker 1: I gave them a BEE because I think I tend

1242
00:55:47,679 --> 00:55:50,360
to just be higher on Daron Fox than consensus, and

1243
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:53,519
so I'm not. I don't think they didn't win that negotiation,

1244
00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:56,679
but I don't think they lost it either, And I

1245
00:55:56,719 --> 00:55:59,440
actually respect that they didn't try they were linked to

1246
00:55:59,519 --> 00:56:02,159
Jannis or all these other like names that people wanted

1247
00:56:02,159 --> 00:56:04,039
them to target. I like the idea of I know,

1248
00:56:04,079 --> 00:56:07,159
Wemby's going into year three, but Castle's only in year two,

1249
00:56:07,239 --> 00:56:09,920
and you just got Dylan Harper kind of see what

1250
00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:13,519
you have in this perimeter ball handling Cornel Like, oh,

1251
00:56:13,519 --> 00:56:15,880
by the way, Devin Vessel is still on this team.

1252
00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:18,840
So I liked that they didn't do anything too nuclear

1253
00:56:18,920 --> 00:56:21,159
after making the Fox trade, because I think that could

1254
00:56:21,159 --> 00:56:24,239
have portended them being more aggressive than they The word

1255
00:56:24,280 --> 00:56:26,559
you use was measured, and I think that you could

1256
00:56:26,559 --> 00:56:30,360
have made the argument they weren't prepared at least it

1257
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:32,400
might've been formed or imply that they weren't going to

1258
00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:35,079
be super measured after getting Fox, and they ultimately ended

1259
00:56:35,159 --> 00:56:37,800
up doing that. We're onto the Denver Nuggets. I'm excited

1260
00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:39,519
that I get to read this one or is this yours?

1261
00:56:39,679 --> 00:56:40,519
Speaker 2: I think it's mine?

1262
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:43,920
Speaker 1: All right? It's short, damn it? You all right?

1263
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:46,719
Speaker 3: So they signed David Allman as the head coach. They

1264
00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:49,719
traded Michael Porter Junior and a twenty thirty two first

1265
00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:52,280
round pick to the Brooklyn Nets for Cam Johnson. They

1266
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:55,119
also traded Dario Sariz to the Kings for Yonas Valancunis.

1267
00:56:55,159 --> 00:56:57,320
They signed old pal Bruce Brown Junior to a one

1268
00:56:57,400 --> 00:57:00,000
year minimum, signed Tim Hardaway Junior to one year minimum.

1269
00:57:00,119 --> 00:57:01,320
Speaker 2: And that's it.

1270
00:57:01,840 --> 00:57:03,000
Speaker 1: Uh. They did not extend.

1271
00:57:04,079 --> 00:57:04,920
Speaker 2: No extension there.

1272
00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:07,199
Speaker 3: Everybody's freak. Should we freak out now or do you

1273
00:57:07,199 --> 00:57:07,960
want to wait until?

1274
00:57:08,519 --> 00:57:10,760
Speaker 1: Could we? I will say, I just don't want to

1275
00:57:10,760 --> 00:57:13,880
default to This was the only decision he could have

1276
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:16,199
made because it makes the most financial sense, Like he

1277
00:57:16,239 --> 00:57:19,960
could have just simply extended and then been extension eligible

1278
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:23,119
again sooner and signed another one. So I've gotten past

1279
00:57:23,199 --> 00:57:26,000
the idea that, oh yeah, he could lock down more

1280
00:57:26,039 --> 00:57:29,039
guarantee years and money next season. But it doesn't you know,

1281
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:31,760
you think the Koli like a year difference that their

1282
00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:34,440
nuggets are going to feel any differently about. Like, no,

1283
00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:35,960
he could have just set himself up for the next

1284
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:37,559
extension by by extending now.

1285
00:57:37,599 --> 00:57:40,880
Speaker 2: And it's like, did you want them to force him

1286
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:41,480
to sign it?

1287
00:57:41,559 --> 00:57:44,639
Speaker 3: Like they probably clearly? Do you think they didn't offer it? Like,

1288
00:57:44,719 --> 00:57:45,960
of course, you know what I mean.

1289
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:47,840
Speaker 1: I'm not penalizing them for but I've seen it. Frank,

1290
00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:50,400
it was like this was the only decision to Yeah,

1291
00:57:50,440 --> 00:57:52,119
should That's the only one that made the most sense.

1292
00:57:52,159 --> 00:57:54,519
I'm like, no, Like he could have just extended and

1293
00:57:54,559 --> 00:57:55,719
then extended again.

1294
00:57:56,320 --> 00:57:59,679
Speaker 3: Right, everybody's getting extensions left and right. So yeah, no,

1295
00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:03,119
this is fairly quick. I guess, like I think we

1296
00:58:03,159 --> 00:58:05,599
should probably focus on the trade.

1297
00:58:06,039 --> 00:58:08,480
Speaker 1: What were they trying to do, Grant, I think.

1298
00:58:08,320 --> 00:58:11,639
Speaker 3: They're trying to, you know, uh, asset manage, make sure

1299
00:58:11,639 --> 00:58:14,159
they're set up for like the twenty thirty four season,

1300
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:16,400
Like you know, you have Jokic.

1301
00:58:16,480 --> 00:58:18,559
Speaker 2: There's only one thing to do is just try to

1302
00:58:18,559 --> 00:58:19,199
try save money.

1303
00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:24,559
Speaker 3: Let's talk about that, because that's so have we So

1304
00:58:24,679 --> 00:58:27,000
my thought on the trade was I think there's a

1305
00:58:27,039 --> 00:58:29,519
case to be made that Cam Johnson can be a

1306
00:58:29,559 --> 00:58:32,079
better overall player than Michael Porter Junior. I'm aware of

1307
00:58:32,119 --> 00:58:36,159
the durability, like misconceptions Cam Johnson has been less durable.

1308
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:39,440
Speaker 2: I'm aware of Cam Johnson maybe being overrated defensively. I

1309
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:39,800
don't know.

1310
00:58:40,360 --> 00:58:42,119
Speaker 3: I think the element of this that has not been

1311
00:58:42,159 --> 00:58:45,079
discussed enough is that everybody on the fucking planet looks

1312
00:58:45,119 --> 00:58:47,360
way better when they play with Nicole Jokic and way

1313
00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:49,400
worse when they don't. So you don't get to compare

1314
00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:51,239
what Michael Porter Junior has done to this point in

1315
00:58:51,239 --> 00:58:53,519
his career to what Cam Johnson has done, because one

1316
00:58:53,559 --> 00:58:55,920
had Jokic setting him up and the other didn't. So

1317
00:58:56,519 --> 00:58:59,239
let's just price in some potential upside for Cam Johnson

1318
00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:01,360
based on the fact that everyone's awesome when they play

1319
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:02,760
with him and gets worse when they don't.

1320
00:59:03,159 --> 00:59:03,599
Speaker 2: That's all.

1321
00:59:03,960 --> 00:59:07,760
Speaker 3: But if this was a money saving thing exclusively and

1322
00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:10,239
was not tied at all to the other transactions they made,

1323
00:59:10,760 --> 00:59:13,960
then I have reservations about it. The Porter Junior trade

1324
00:59:14,320 --> 00:59:16,960
if because you give up an unprotected first, like actually

1325
00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:18,599
I can't remember the protections you give up first.

1326
00:59:19,239 --> 00:59:20,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's no protections on that thing.

1327
00:59:21,039 --> 00:59:23,719
Speaker 3: So that's a big deal because your post Jokic years,

1328
00:59:23,719 --> 00:59:25,719
which you know that might be the case since he

1329
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:28,079
didn't sign an extension, could get ugly.

1330
00:59:28,119 --> 00:59:31,880
Speaker 2: You might want that safety net. Do you think we.

1331
00:59:31,960 --> 00:59:35,719
Speaker 3: Can separate the trade from the other moves they made, like, oh,

1332
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:37,960
we couldn't have gotten Bruce Brown and Tim Hardaway and

1333
00:59:38,519 --> 00:59:40,360
Valanciunis if we hadn't made this deal.

1334
00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:43,000
Speaker 2: Is that a fair way to look at it, because

1335
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:43,440
I'm not sure.

1336
00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:46,960
Speaker 1: No, first, Tim Hardaway, this is I'm not talking to

1337
00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:49,440
you right now. Bruce Brown and Tim Hardway Junior signed

1338
00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:51,760
to minimums.

1339
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:53,199
Speaker 3: No matter what, right, I'm not talking to you either.

1340
00:59:53,239 --> 00:59:55,519
I'm just trying to lay out this because you do see.

1341
00:59:55,360 --> 00:59:57,519
Speaker 2: A lot of well look what they did with the flexibility.

1342
00:59:57,559 --> 01:00:00,079
It's like, no, they could have gotten those guys any.

1343
01:00:00,719 --> 01:00:02,719
Speaker 1: The Valentiunis trade was just a home run. They could

1344
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:05,400
not have made that deal without trimming the money and

1345
01:00:05,519 --> 01:00:07,280
just the way that they structured it. You have to

1346
01:00:07,320 --> 01:00:09,639
give the front office a ton of credit because if

1347
01:00:09,679 --> 01:00:11,920
they want, they can still tack on like they're not

1348
01:00:12,079 --> 01:00:15,039
beholden to a certain apron here at the moment, I

1349
01:00:15,119 --> 01:00:17,239
doubt that they're gonna end up like, yeah, let's take

1350
01:00:17,320 --> 01:00:19,280
on a bunch of cash because of the way they

1351
01:00:19,280 --> 01:00:21,639
went about the Michael Porter Junior trade. I have thought

1352
01:00:21,639 --> 01:00:25,079
a lot about the Cam Johnson fit in Denver, and

1353
01:00:25,119 --> 01:00:27,559
I've probably come around and I never thought he would

1354
01:00:27,599 --> 01:00:30,480
be a bad fit. The question I was asking is,

1355
01:00:30,480 --> 01:00:34,119
is giving up your unprotected twenty thirty two pick worth

1356
01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:36,960
getting rid of going from Michael Porter Junior and Dario

1357
01:00:37,079 --> 01:00:41,559
Sharich to Cam Johnson and Jonas valentiunis That's kind of

1358
01:00:41,599 --> 01:00:43,840
just how I was looking at it. I still believe

1359
01:00:43,880 --> 01:00:46,360
as the Nuggets that they didn't squeeze enough juice out

1360
01:00:46,400 --> 01:00:49,280
of that pick, but I do recognize that there's a

1361
01:00:49,400 --> 01:00:52,239
chance for me that Cam Johnson ends up being a

1362
01:00:52,239 --> 01:00:56,079
better fit alongside the Nuggets or alongside Nikole Jokich is

1363
01:00:56,079 --> 01:00:57,920
just the rest of the Nuggets. I think the stuff

1364
01:00:57,960 --> 01:01:00,840
he can do offensively is a little bit more intuitive

1365
01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:03,880
for him, whereas Michael Porter Junior became more intuitive as

1366
01:01:03,920 --> 01:01:06,480
time went on. But he just never felt like the

1367
01:01:06,559 --> 01:01:09,800
quintessential Denver Nuggets Nikola Jokic player. And if the ship

1368
01:01:09,840 --> 01:01:13,760
had sailed on him being your third option, then okay,

1369
01:01:14,039 --> 01:01:17,159
Like I totally understand this, but that twenty thirty two

1370
01:01:17,239 --> 01:01:19,880
first round pick. I know we over romanticize these things,

1371
01:01:20,159 --> 01:01:21,880
and I know the idea is, no, you do whatever

1372
01:01:21,920 --> 01:01:25,480
you can to win alongside Nicola Jokich. If you attached

1373
01:01:25,519 --> 01:01:28,599
it to Michael Porter Junior or literally any of their

1374
01:01:28,639 --> 01:01:31,719
other contracts, do you think that there was a move

1375
01:01:32,119 --> 01:01:34,400
or a player that would have been worth targeting that

1376
01:01:34,400 --> 01:01:37,800
could have done substantially more for them? And that's the

1377
01:01:37,920 --> 01:01:41,639
question where I get hung up on because if I

1378
01:01:41,679 --> 01:01:44,199
were the Nuggets, there's a chance that I just might

1379
01:01:44,239 --> 01:01:46,039
not have made if nothing better was out there, I

1380
01:01:46,119 --> 01:01:48,199
might have just sat on the twenty thirty two first

1381
01:01:48,280 --> 01:01:50,639
round pick. I don't know if that's the right decision,

1382
01:01:50,639 --> 01:01:52,360
but I don't know that there was also a better

1383
01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:54,880
move out there. And to me, that's not so they

1384
01:01:54,920 --> 01:01:57,159
had to make this move. It's if there wasn't a

1385
01:01:57,159 --> 01:01:59,960
better move out there, maybe you don't make the move.

1386
01:02:00,840 --> 01:02:04,559
I don't. This one's tough. I like the Cam Johnson fit,

1387
01:02:04,599 --> 01:02:07,199
and I love like Yonas valentutis just as Jokic's back

1388
01:02:07,280 --> 01:02:09,679
up big. Look at how good he was. He got

1389
01:02:09,719 --> 01:02:12,000
traded to the King's mid season, and they're the Kings

1390
01:02:12,320 --> 01:02:14,760
and he was good. So now you're gonna go to Denver.

1391
01:02:15,519 --> 01:02:19,079
I this is tough for me, but I think that ultimately,

1392
01:02:19,559 --> 01:02:21,480
even if they would have had to wait, you probably

1393
01:02:21,519 --> 01:02:23,239
could have squeezed more like how do you knock it

1394
01:02:23,320 --> 01:02:25,320
off zchnology as part of like giving up your twenty

1395
01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:26,400
thirty two first round pick.

1396
01:02:26,440 --> 01:02:32,440
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, I think I don't think Michael Porter Junior

1397
01:02:32,440 --> 01:02:35,400
has a desirable contract, so I think generally.

1398
01:02:35,079 --> 01:02:37,199
Speaker 1: Speaking, he has desirable world views.

1399
01:02:37,480 --> 01:02:39,360
Speaker 3: This is the other issue, Dan, Like I know I

1400
01:02:39,400 --> 01:02:42,000
really was gonna go there. I think one you're paying,

1401
01:02:43,320 --> 01:02:45,599
it's a lot to give up an unprotected first to

1402
01:02:45,599 --> 01:02:47,519
move off of player who has been a starter on

1403
01:02:47,559 --> 01:02:50,119
a championship team, so by definition like he's done okay,

1404
01:02:50,559 --> 01:02:53,280
But like, I don't think that's a desirable contract. I

1405
01:02:53,280 --> 01:02:56,559
think people are fair or not more worried about his

1406
01:02:56,679 --> 01:02:57,920
health future.

1407
01:02:57,599 --> 01:02:59,800
Speaker 2: Than they are about Cam Johnson. So that's another factor.

1408
01:02:59,840 --> 01:03:02,159
Speaker 3: The other thing is you don't as the Nuggets have

1409
01:03:02,199 --> 01:03:05,639
to deal with whatever increasingly wild shit Michael Porter Junr

1410
01:03:05,719 --> 01:03:08,760
Is doing and saying, I think that's actually worth something,

1411
01:03:09,760 --> 01:03:12,320
And the fact that like I actually, to be fair,

1412
01:03:12,360 --> 01:03:14,719
I've only read the quotes and not actually heard him

1413
01:03:14,760 --> 01:03:17,280
say it, but talking at media day about how like

1414
01:03:17,320 --> 01:03:19,360
he's not sure how long he wants to play, and

1415
01:03:19,599 --> 01:03:22,400
like like so I don't know, man, Like I think

1416
01:03:22,440 --> 01:03:24,760
maybe you maybe you cut the cord at the right time.

1417
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:27,440
And I'm not saying it's worth that that twenty thirty

1418
01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:30,719
two pick it It might be closer, like it might

1419
01:03:30,800 --> 01:03:34,719
be easier to say this wasn't mostly about the money,

1420
01:03:34,760 --> 01:03:36,599
Like I think if you factor in all of the

1421
01:03:36,679 --> 01:03:38,039
mpja's stuff.

1422
01:03:38,800 --> 01:03:40,599
Speaker 1: That's a really good point. I don't think. I don't

1423
01:03:40,599 --> 01:03:42,280
think it was a bad trade. I think it's one

1424
01:03:42,320 --> 01:03:44,480
that I'm it's gonna be fascinating to look back on

1425
01:03:44,519 --> 01:03:46,880
this in a year. Do you think I didn't even

1426
01:03:46,920 --> 01:03:49,199
let you answer before I can tell you rambling, Like

1427
01:03:49,840 --> 01:03:51,639
does anything spring to mind when you think about, well,

1428
01:03:51,639 --> 01:03:53,880
what else could they have done? Then? With the twenty

1429
01:03:53,920 --> 01:03:54,760
thirty two first.

1430
01:03:54,639 --> 01:03:57,039
Speaker 3: Round, Well that's what got me on the whole. Like,

1431
01:03:57,079 --> 01:03:59,719
I don't think Porter Junior's contract is desirable. So I

1432
01:03:59,800 --> 01:04:02,079
think that because and that had to be the outgoing salary.

1433
01:04:02,119 --> 01:04:04,800
I think if you're gonna do anything consequential.

1434
01:04:04,199 --> 01:04:07,159
Speaker 1: Well you could have done something like I don't know,

1435
01:04:07,239 --> 01:04:10,000
like scharch and nausey and step laddered your way there,

1436
01:04:10,000 --> 01:04:11,880
you're not saving as much money then by that. But

1437
01:04:11,920 --> 01:04:14,920
I here's this is where I ultimately is. I'm just

1438
01:04:15,039 --> 01:04:19,840
uncomfortable with how much I think that salary savings went

1439
01:04:19,880 --> 01:04:22,079
into them trading their twenty thirty two first round pack.

1440
01:04:22,159 --> 01:04:25,039
Speaker 3: And I completely agree with that. I just we just

1441
01:04:25,079 --> 01:04:28,840
were gonna kick around the like this is one where

1442
01:04:29,880 --> 01:04:32,719
it's probably not fair, but we'll do this. If Cam

1443
01:04:32,800 --> 01:04:35,519
Johnson is way better than MPG will retroactive, it be

1444
01:04:35,599 --> 01:04:38,760
like totally worth a smart move. Money was like an

1445
01:04:38,800 --> 01:04:40,199
ancillary factor.

1446
01:04:40,119 --> 01:04:42,800
Speaker 1: And it's also it makes you concerned about what it

1447
01:04:42,920 --> 01:04:45,679
might augur moving forward to where it's well, they gonna

1448
01:04:45,719 --> 01:04:48,679
make another cost shedding moved, Like what are are they gonna.

1449
01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:51,679
Speaker 3: It doesn't tell us anything different about the Nuggets than

1450
01:04:51,760 --> 01:04:55,159
we've already thought in years past. Right, they've always tried

1451
01:04:55,199 --> 01:04:57,719
to have it both way. They've always tried to contend

1452
01:04:57,719 --> 01:05:00,840
with Jokicen also not like get told out of pocket

1453
01:05:01,039 --> 01:05:02,800
spending wise, that's just who they are.

1454
01:05:03,719 --> 01:05:05,719
Speaker 1: Uh. This is all to say, it's does it sound

1455
01:05:05,760 --> 01:05:07,519
like we're gonna give them a bad grade because we

1456
01:05:07,559 --> 01:05:10,119
didn't know we're really good grade yeah.

1457
01:05:10,119 --> 01:05:12,599
Speaker 2: We both both of them get We got bees, and.

1458
01:05:12,920 --> 01:05:14,840
Speaker 1: You talked into a B play if you really are

1459
01:05:14,920 --> 01:05:17,199
just if you believe that Cam Johnson is going to

1460
01:05:17,239 --> 01:05:20,039
be better defensively and it's just more of an intuitive

1461
01:05:20,039 --> 01:05:22,519
fit for this roster. The other thing I didn't mention,

1462
01:05:22,519 --> 01:05:24,519
I would have liked to have seen them add like

1463
01:05:24,639 --> 01:05:27,760
some type of secondary ball handler that's not Oh, where

1464
01:05:27,800 --> 01:05:31,599
we gonna rely on John Pickett. I'm really okay. Bruce Brown, sure,

1465
01:05:31,639 --> 01:05:34,199
but even the Bruce Brown of two years ago, I

1466
01:05:34,199 --> 01:05:35,960
don't know two or three years ago, I don't know

1467
01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:39,360
if that would have been the answer. So maybe is

1468
01:05:39,440 --> 01:05:42,679
Julian Strather gonna do that? Like so, I think a

1469
01:05:42,719 --> 01:05:44,719
BEE is a really good grade, but you could probably

1470
01:05:44,719 --> 01:05:46,840
talk me into a B plus if you were really impassionate.

1471
01:05:46,920 --> 01:05:49,159
Speaker 3: I mean, end of the day, they added three rotation

1472
01:05:49,239 --> 01:05:51,800
players and two of them are on minimums. Like that's

1473
01:05:52,440 --> 01:05:55,039
that's a that's important for Denver, which really just needs

1474
01:05:55,159 --> 01:05:57,039
live bodies that it can trust off the bench.

1475
01:05:57,400 --> 01:06:01,519
Speaker 1: We are on to the Minnesota Timberwolves, who this is

1476
01:06:01,559 --> 01:06:03,079
my team because you got the team that had the

1477
01:06:03,119 --> 01:06:06,760
short transaction log. Tim Connelly Grant opted into the final

1478
01:06:06,800 --> 01:06:09,800
two years of his contract. They drafted Johann Berenjay at

1479
01:06:09,880 --> 01:06:12,639
number seventeen. They resigned Nasried to a five year, one

1480
01:06:12,679 --> 01:06:16,280
hundred and twenty five million dollar deal. It ascends he

1481
01:06:16,320 --> 01:06:18,800
has a player option in the final season, and because

1482
01:06:18,800 --> 01:06:21,360
this is one where everyone got sticker shock, it's about

1483
01:06:21,360 --> 01:06:24,159
fourteen point three percent of the salary cap on average.

1484
01:06:24,280 --> 01:06:26,559
They resigned Julius Randall for three years and one hundred

1485
01:06:26,599 --> 01:06:29,400
million dollars. That's also a sending he got a player

1486
01:06:29,440 --> 01:06:31,639
option in the final season. That's an average of about

1487
01:06:31,639 --> 01:06:34,400
twenty point two percent of the salary cap. They brought

1488
01:06:34,480 --> 01:06:36,760
back Joe Ingles on a one year minimum. They re

1489
01:06:36,840 --> 01:06:38,760
signed Boonens Highland to a one year minimum deal with

1490
01:06:38,840 --> 01:06:42,000
only four hundred and twenty five k guaranteed and grant.

1491
01:06:42,480 --> 01:06:46,559
They joined in on the seventeen SEVENTEAM not the seventeen

1492
01:06:46,960 --> 01:06:51,320
the seventeam KD trade. They got the rights to Rocko

1493
01:06:51,519 --> 01:06:55,320
Zikarski that was number forty five, a twenty twenty six

1494
01:06:55,360 --> 01:06:58,559
second less favorable from Denver Golden State via Phoenix, and

1495
01:06:58,599 --> 01:07:01,079
then three point twenty five million dollars in cash from

1496
01:07:01,079 --> 01:07:03,440
the Lakers, as well as a twenty thirty two second

1497
01:07:03,480 --> 01:07:06,840
the most favorable of Houston and Phoenix via Phoenix in

1498
01:07:06,920 --> 01:07:09,480
exchange for what was the number thirty one pick that

1499
01:07:09,679 --> 01:07:13,440
was Rashier Fleming, who's currently in Phoenix. What'd you make

1500
01:07:13,440 --> 01:07:14,440
of this offseason, Grant?

1501
01:07:14,719 --> 01:07:17,840
Speaker 3: I think this comes down to do you think rocos

1502
01:07:17,920 --> 01:07:21,239
Zakarski is a cooler sounding name than Rashier Fleming because

1503
01:07:21,239 --> 01:07:24,719
they're both very cool. I lean rocos Zakarski, so they

1504
01:07:24,760 --> 01:07:28,000
came out ahead in that deal a plus overall.

1505
01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:32,280
Speaker 1: And I think too, like Roco is the more versatile name, like.

1506
01:07:32,400 --> 01:07:35,639
Speaker 3: Right, a lot of more nickname options. Probably, It's just

1507
01:07:35,840 --> 01:07:37,960
there's a lot of hard C and K and Z

1508
01:07:38,199 --> 01:07:41,360
sounds in rocos Zakarski. Like that's a tough imagine that

1509
01:07:41,480 --> 01:07:44,360
over the PA Like when he scores, that sounds good.

1510
01:07:44,559 --> 01:07:47,360
Speaker 1: I think do they play Rocko's Modern Life theme song

1511
01:07:47,480 --> 01:07:48,760
or something with that?

1512
01:07:49,400 --> 01:07:51,400
Speaker 2: I have not thought about Roco's Modern Life for a

1513
01:07:51,400 --> 01:07:55,039
really long time. Thanks for that, well.

1514
01:07:55,119 --> 01:07:56,800
Speaker 3: I think one thing I want to start on the

1515
01:07:56,880 --> 01:07:59,440
nas read and what we don't have here we haven't

1516
01:07:59,440 --> 01:08:02,599
mentioned is nickand Nikhil Alexander Walker.

1517
01:08:03,000 --> 01:08:05,519
Speaker 1: He's you're trying to be like super pretentious there.

1518
01:08:05,800 --> 01:08:08,840
Speaker 2: I'm mourning because we love him and he's not on

1519
01:08:08,880 --> 01:08:12,360
this team anymore. It's okay. He landed in a good spot.

1520
01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:17,039
Speaker 3: So a lot of the discussion about this offseason was,

1521
01:08:17,439 --> 01:08:20,479
you're not gonna get back all three of Alexander Walker,

1522
01:08:20,520 --> 01:08:22,600
Reid and Randall, which two of you're picking?

1523
01:08:22,880 --> 01:08:24,600
Speaker 2: How is that going to work out financially?

1524
01:08:25,079 --> 01:08:27,760
Speaker 3: They said, you know, so they get Read and Randall back,

1525
01:08:27,800 --> 01:08:29,119
Alexander Walker leaves.

1526
01:08:30,880 --> 01:08:31,760
Speaker 2: It's not easy.

1527
01:08:31,760 --> 01:08:34,560
Speaker 3: You can't really separate the money because I do bump

1528
01:08:34,560 --> 01:08:35,560
on the money for Reid.

1529
01:08:35,880 --> 01:08:38,079
Speaker 2: It's a lot for even the best backup big in

1530
01:08:38,119 --> 01:08:41,760
the league. Are you okay with the two they they wound.

1531
01:08:41,560 --> 01:08:44,720
Speaker 1: Up with, Yeah, so I'll start there. I think they

1532
01:08:44,760 --> 01:08:49,039
made the right decision because Julius Randall is more important

1533
01:08:49,039 --> 01:08:50,800
to their offense. He's more of the more of an

1534
01:08:50,840 --> 01:08:54,319
anomaly relative to their roster, and then nas Reed is

1535
01:08:54,359 --> 01:08:57,439
just more of a positional anomaly overall relative to the

1536
01:08:57,479 --> 01:09:00,319
rest of the league than Nikkeile Alexander Walker. And I

1537
01:09:00,319 --> 01:09:02,640
think that's that's that. Now, they could have just kept

1538
01:09:02,720 --> 01:09:05,000
Gnaw paid through the teeth, if you want to say,

1539
01:09:05,039 --> 01:09:08,479
they should have absolutely done that. I'm not gonna weep

1540
01:09:08,600 --> 01:09:12,439
over billionaires spending money, so you could absolutely make that case.

1541
01:09:13,600 --> 01:09:15,960
What I think with the read things specifically, I do

1542
01:09:16,039 --> 01:09:20,880
think people overreacted, but you couldn't negotiate a little. Why

1543
01:09:20,920 --> 01:09:22,960
does he have a player option? Why was this five?

1544
01:09:23,119 --> 01:09:26,520
This felt it felt a little bit like they didn't

1545
01:09:26,560 --> 01:09:30,560
win any aspect of the negotiation, which makes it like

1546
01:09:30,600 --> 01:09:34,439
a CC minus contract. I don't think it's a bad contract.

1547
01:09:34,960 --> 01:09:37,560
I guess my questions lie with do you think he

1548
01:09:37,640 --> 01:09:40,840
can ever be your primary five? And if the answer

1549
01:09:40,880 --> 01:09:44,239
is no, then you probably should have pushed a little

1550
01:09:44,239 --> 01:09:45,119
harder somewhere.

1551
01:09:45,720 --> 01:09:48,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, because not just for them, but if you're like,

1552
01:09:48,479 --> 01:09:52,319
if you're looking to trade him, potentially other teams are

1553
01:09:52,359 --> 01:09:55,960
gonna have the same issue, Like so you want you

1554
01:09:56,000 --> 01:09:58,119
want us to take on one hundred and twenty five

1555
01:09:58,119 --> 01:09:58,880
million dollars.

1556
01:09:58,680 --> 01:09:59,920
Speaker 2: Deal for a backup?

1557
01:10:00,159 --> 01:10:02,560
Speaker 3: Like that's because he's not really a four either, So

1558
01:10:02,960 --> 01:10:06,359
like that's that's the thing. I guess maybe the simplest

1559
01:10:06,359 --> 01:10:08,119
way to look at it is the Timberwolves are trying

1560
01:10:08,119 --> 01:10:10,159
to win a title. They've been in the conference finals

1561
01:10:10,159 --> 01:10:12,439
twice in a row. They have Anthony Edwards, who could

1562
01:10:12,560 --> 01:10:15,119
level up a half level and just well now he's

1563
01:10:15,159 --> 01:10:17,560
the third best player in the league or something. So

1564
01:10:18,000 --> 01:10:19,840
you just have to keep Naz Reid because he's a

1565
01:10:19,840 --> 01:10:21,840
really good player and he makes your team way better

1566
01:10:22,119 --> 01:10:25,600
and like to a similar extent, same with Randall, like

1567
01:10:25,840 --> 01:10:27,960
and of the three, I guess Alexander Walker is probably

1568
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:31,760
the third best player. The only case I think for

1569
01:10:31,920 --> 01:10:35,760
keeping Naw over Reid is the money one, which we're

1570
01:10:35,760 --> 01:10:39,119
gonna try not to make because who cares billionaires. But also, like, well,

1571
01:10:40,159 --> 01:10:42,520
you know, we've got Randall, We've got Gobert, we can play.

1572
01:10:42,600 --> 01:10:47,640
Speaker 2: McDaniel's at the four just fine. Baron J's right there.

1573
01:10:48,079 --> 01:10:50,439
Speaker 3: And on the flip side, we're not really sure Rob

1574
01:10:50,479 --> 01:10:53,880
Dillingham's ready. I mean, Dante DiVincenzo, I don't know. We

1575
01:10:54,239 --> 01:10:56,199
like him, I don't know. Mike Connley is one hundred

1576
01:10:56,239 --> 01:10:59,159
years old. He's gonna get worse. Like was the only

1577
01:10:59,199 --> 01:11:01,479
case you can make, and I'm not making it, it's

1578
01:11:01,520 --> 01:11:04,159
just just for purpose of discussion. Is that, like, we're

1579
01:11:04,159 --> 01:11:07,359
actually weaker in the guard rotation and Alexander Walker would

1580
01:11:07,359 --> 01:11:10,399
be more helpful there than Reid would. Up front, I'm

1581
01:11:10,439 --> 01:11:12,680
not super persuaded by that. I just I bump on

1582
01:11:12,720 --> 01:11:15,399
the number and the like you said, it, like what

1583
01:11:15,560 --> 01:11:17,920
aspect of the red deal did you win on as

1584
01:11:17,960 --> 01:11:21,119
the Timberwolves, Like, I just surely you could have gotten

1585
01:11:21,199 --> 01:11:24,760
it a straight five years or lower number with the

1586
01:11:24,760 --> 01:11:27,039
player options something like that, because nobody else. That's the

1587
01:11:27,079 --> 01:11:29,399
other thing. Where was the Where was the competing offers

1588
01:11:29,399 --> 01:11:30,560
coming from that we're gonna beat this?

1589
01:11:31,840 --> 01:11:34,000
Speaker 1: Everyone had the Pistons a sort of looming and I

1590
01:11:34,039 --> 01:11:37,479
just I don't see them like jumping through the hoops

1591
01:11:37,520 --> 01:11:41,239
necessary to have spent that money on him, and by

1592
01:11:41,239 --> 01:11:43,039
the way they would have had after them League Beasley

1593
01:11:43,079 --> 01:11:45,520
issues like you could argue that, like the focus should

1594
01:11:45,520 --> 01:11:48,319
not have been on the big man rotation anyway. Yeah,

1595
01:11:48,359 --> 01:11:50,079
And the other thing here too is now, if you

1596
01:11:50,079 --> 01:11:51,680
want to take the flip view and say you really

1597
01:11:51,720 --> 01:11:54,960
wanted to look at this as a super favorable offseason,

1598
01:11:55,000 --> 01:11:59,680
would be okay, Like by picking nas and Julius Randall

1599
01:11:59,680 --> 01:12:02,800
instead of NAW, you ensured that Arren Shannon Junior and

1600
01:12:02,880 --> 01:12:04,840
Rob Dillingham are just gonna play a whole bunch, and

1601
01:12:04,880 --> 01:12:07,159
you need those two to play a whole bunch and

1602
01:12:07,199 --> 01:12:08,560
you know what you have in them, and it feels

1603
01:12:08,880 --> 01:12:11,720
it's more important with Rob Dillingham like Arren Shannon Junor

1604
01:12:11,760 --> 01:12:13,479
feels like more of a known quantity, and I think

1605
01:12:13,479 --> 01:12:15,960
that he'll probably play more than Rob Dillingham will this

1606
01:12:16,000 --> 01:12:16,600
coming season.

1607
01:12:16,640 --> 01:12:19,920
Speaker 3: But he's found money too, like relative to Dillingham, who's like,

1608
01:12:19,960 --> 01:12:21,880
this is an investment, Yes.

1609
01:12:21,720 --> 01:12:24,079
Speaker 1: Pretty sach And so I think it's good Like don

1610
01:12:24,119 --> 01:12:27,239
Die DiVincenzo and Tarren Shannon Junior and then Mike Conley

1611
01:12:27,279 --> 01:12:29,119
are all still there. So there's people in front of

1612
01:12:29,199 --> 01:12:31,880
Rob Dillingham who you might turn to beforehand. But bringing

1613
01:12:31,920 --> 01:12:34,239
back naw Or having tried to make a bigger swing

1614
01:12:34,640 --> 01:12:37,399
in the guard rotation on the trade market, that would

1615
01:12:37,439 --> 01:12:40,199
have eaten into the opportunity for dilling Ham. And I

1616
01:12:40,199 --> 01:12:41,640
don't know if he's gonna be good, but like we

1617
01:12:41,680 --> 01:12:43,960
need to find out, like he's he's gonna be two

1618
01:12:44,039 --> 01:12:47,119
years into his carew. So yeah, I'm I'm like kind

1619
01:12:47,119 --> 01:12:49,800
of ambivalent to this offseason, did you they? And by

1620
01:12:49,800 --> 01:12:53,279
the way, they are too because they were heavily involved

1621
01:12:53,279 --> 01:12:56,359
in the Kevin Durant trade sweepstakes, and so that's just

1622
01:12:56,640 --> 01:12:58,479
I think you do that if you can, but I

1623
01:12:58,520 --> 01:13:03,279
don't like they clearly feel like they're missing something vital

1624
01:13:03,600 --> 01:13:06,159
on the offensive end, which is just a weird, uncomfortable

1625
01:13:06,159 --> 01:13:08,039
spot to be as a team who I think is

1626
01:13:08,079 --> 01:13:11,560
probably being underrated that they just made consecutive conference finals.

1627
01:13:11,560 --> 01:13:14,640
This wasn't a fluke, there's laws, but they still matched

1628
01:13:14,680 --> 01:13:16,159
to get to the conference finals. Anyway.

1629
01:13:16,520 --> 01:13:19,920
Speaker 2: Yep, they're they're really, really good. So let's let's jump

1630
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:22,600
to the grades. Like we we both gave them a.

1631
01:13:22,439 --> 01:13:25,560
Speaker 3: C and and that's not bad. It's just the acknowledgement

1632
01:13:25,600 --> 01:13:26,279
of what we went through.

1633
01:13:26,279 --> 01:13:27,239
Speaker 2: It's like the red deal.

1634
01:13:27,479 --> 01:13:29,199
Speaker 3: You kept a good player on a good team that

1635
01:13:29,279 --> 01:13:32,319
needs them just a little rich, but not like maybe

1636
01:13:32,399 --> 01:13:34,399
you just had to do that. There's there's nothing here,

1637
01:13:34,399 --> 01:13:36,239
I guess. In other words that stands out as like

1638
01:13:36,760 --> 01:13:40,479
egregiously bad or obviously a huge win. So we just

1639
01:13:40,560 --> 01:13:42,760
kind of split the difference and wind up in the middle.

1640
01:13:42,760 --> 01:13:44,239
They did fine, they didn't.

1641
01:13:44,239 --> 01:13:46,359
Speaker 1: They do exactly what we expected them to do too.

1642
01:13:46,840 --> 01:13:49,000
Speaker 3: That's the other thing is like yeah, no was probably

1643
01:13:49,000 --> 01:13:52,239
gone and an he was so yeah right, very much

1644
01:13:52,239 --> 01:13:54,840
lined up with expectations. A team that's yours that you

1645
01:13:54,880 --> 01:13:56,920
were so low on when we were talking about them

1646
01:13:56,960 --> 01:13:57,720
prior to hopping on.

1647
01:13:57,800 --> 01:14:01,439
Speaker 1: I do not understand. They still need to prove it

1648
01:14:01,479 --> 01:14:01,720
to me.

1649
01:14:01,840 --> 01:14:05,439
Speaker 3: Yes, it talks to me if you've won two titles, guys,

1650
01:14:06,000 --> 01:14:09,359
So just we're gonna run him off here. SGA got

1651
01:14:09,359 --> 01:14:12,079
a four year supermax, starts in twenty seven to twenty eight.

1652
01:14:12,119 --> 01:14:14,279
Got a player option there. It's gonna average thirty six

1653
01:14:14,359 --> 01:14:16,920
point three percent of the cap. Jalen Williams five years

1654
01:14:16,960 --> 01:14:19,800
to forty one. That's a max extension, can get up

1655
01:14:19,840 --> 01:14:21,880
to two eighty nine if he makes all NBA. I

1656
01:14:21,920 --> 01:14:25,720
do think he's got the kind of supermax extenders where

1657
01:14:25,720 --> 01:14:28,680
it's like the number changes whether it's third, second, or

1658
01:14:28,720 --> 01:14:32,119
first team, so that if he makes third team I think,

1659
01:14:32,239 --> 01:14:33,840
or second, it won't get all the way up to

1660
01:14:33,840 --> 01:14:34,439
two eighty nine.

1661
01:14:34,479 --> 01:14:36,119
Speaker 2: That you can you can condition it on that.

1662
01:14:36,439 --> 01:14:38,520
Speaker 1: So I just agree, by the way that it's also

1663
01:14:38,680 --> 01:14:41,840
stupid that he needs to make all NBA again for

1664
01:14:41,920 --> 01:14:43,039
the escalators to kick in.

1665
01:14:43,319 --> 01:14:44,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, he's already proved it.

1666
01:14:45,560 --> 01:14:48,600
Speaker 3: Chet five years to forty one, similar, no thirty percent

1667
01:14:48,720 --> 01:14:52,479
language at all, got no options as well. Thomas Sorber

1668
01:14:52,600 --> 01:14:56,760
drafted at fifteen out for the year unfortunately yet another

1669
01:14:57,119 --> 01:14:59,239
I mean also also like kind of works out for

1670
01:14:59,279 --> 01:15:01,960
the Thunder I guess again, just like Topitch last year,

1671
01:15:02,840 --> 01:15:05,840
gets like a free rookie rehab season. They also traded

1672
01:15:05,920 --> 01:15:08,199
number twenty four, that's Nee Clifford to the Kings for

1673
01:15:08,279 --> 01:15:12,079
the Spurs twenty seven first with top sixteen protection. That

1674
01:15:12,119 --> 01:15:14,520
turns into a King's twenty seven second and a Charlotte

1675
01:15:14,520 --> 01:15:17,520
twenty seven second if it is not conveyed. Drafted Brooks

1676
01:15:17,560 --> 01:15:19,920
Barnheiser at forty four. Everybody seems to like him. He's

1677
01:15:19,960 --> 01:15:23,079
on a two way. Traded Dylan Jones again and Houston's

1678
01:15:23,079 --> 01:15:25,520
twenty nine second to Washington for Colby Jones.

1679
01:15:25,239 --> 01:15:28,319
Speaker 2: Who was waived. A couple seemingly minor signings.

1680
01:15:28,319 --> 01:15:31,439
Speaker 3: We both really love aj Mitchell back three years eight

1681
01:15:31,439 --> 01:15:33,640
point seven million team option on the final year of that.

1682
01:15:34,159 --> 01:15:37,119
Jalen Williams other Jalen Williams three years twenty four million

1683
01:15:37,279 --> 01:15:39,560
team option on the final year of that. Also signed

1684
01:15:39,560 --> 01:15:41,840
Brandon Carlson to a two way deal. Dan, you love

1685
01:15:41,920 --> 01:15:45,159
this offseason. You gave it seventeen pluses after the letter

1686
01:15:45,159 --> 01:15:46,920
A explain yourself.

1687
01:15:47,479 --> 01:15:51,159
Speaker 1: Look, first of all, the AJ Mitchell contract is actually criminal.

1688
01:15:51,520 --> 01:15:53,680
That is highway. That's a heist. Like he's gonna be

1689
01:15:53,720 --> 01:15:55,279
like less than two percent or three percent of the

1690
01:15:55,279 --> 01:15:57,640
salary cap. Or whatever it is that is someone who

1691
01:15:57,680 --> 01:16:00,319
is as Cason Wallace gets more expensive, or if you

1692
01:16:00,439 --> 01:16:03,039
need to move off of Alex Caruso, I'm not saying

1693
01:16:03,039 --> 01:16:05,119
he's those players. Or if you want to even move

1694
01:16:05,159 --> 01:16:07,920
off of Isaiah Joe, that's just gonna enable you to

1695
01:16:07,960 --> 01:16:09,600
do that and still have someone who could fill those

1696
01:16:09,680 --> 01:16:13,279
rotation minutes. I think the biggest victory for them in

1697
01:16:13,319 --> 01:16:17,079
all actuality was getting Brooks barn Hut No was I

1698
01:16:17,119 --> 01:16:19,880
don't think we're assigning enough value to how the j

1699
01:16:20,039 --> 01:16:22,760
dub and chet Holmgren extension shook out to not get

1700
01:16:22,800 --> 01:16:25,319
options with those players. I know everyone said that that's

1701
01:16:25,319 --> 01:16:28,319
now been standardized. Okay, Palaman Carroll got a player option

1702
01:16:28,359 --> 01:16:30,520
in Orlando, like these two didn't get player You don't

1703
01:16:30,520 --> 01:16:32,960
have the escalator language with chet Holmgren. And even if

1704
01:16:33,039 --> 01:16:36,800
Jay Dubb makes all NBA, by them not getting to

1705
01:16:36,920 --> 01:16:41,439
free agency into or having new contracts start in twenty thirty,

1706
01:16:41,760 --> 01:16:44,920
you're saving yourself at minimum five point six million dollars

1707
01:16:44,960 --> 01:16:47,640
per player if they were still max players. Now if

1708
01:16:47,680 --> 01:16:51,119
they're super Max eligible, you're saving like fifteen point six

1709
01:16:51,199 --> 01:16:53,680
million dollars per player. And yes, that's money you have

1710
01:16:53,720 --> 01:16:56,640
to spend eventually kicking mccannn down the road when you're

1711
01:16:56,680 --> 01:16:59,000
at this level, when your choru is so young and

1712
01:16:59,039 --> 01:17:02,239
it's so expensive. I'm not I'm not even saying everyone's

1713
01:17:02,239 --> 01:17:03,960
still gonna be here, but like, if you have the

1714
01:17:04,000 --> 01:17:08,479
opportunity to delay thirty one million dollars in additional payments

1715
01:17:08,520 --> 01:17:11,479
for the same players, like you've done yourself a really

1716
01:17:11,520 --> 01:17:14,199
great service as a team. And so to not get

1717
01:17:14,199 --> 01:17:17,640
player options on those extensions when you're working with such

1718
01:17:17,720 --> 01:17:21,479
thin financial margins within the next few years, that's a really,

1719
01:17:21,560 --> 01:17:24,000
really big deal. And I just don't think it's something

1720
01:17:24,279 --> 01:17:26,199
that I had, like a pin in that I just

1721
01:17:26,239 --> 01:17:27,960
don't think was talked about enough.

1722
01:17:28,399 --> 01:17:28,680
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1723
01:17:28,760 --> 01:17:30,960
Speaker 3: No, I think the reason I was too low initially

1724
01:17:31,000 --> 01:17:33,640
you did talk me up, I think correctly, was just

1725
01:17:33,720 --> 01:17:36,239
all three of those extensions for SGA and Jadob and

1726
01:17:36,319 --> 01:17:38,199
Chet were like, well, yeah, of course they're going to

1727
01:17:38,239 --> 01:17:38,760
extend them.

1728
01:17:38,760 --> 01:17:39,520
Speaker 2: But you're right.

1729
01:17:39,560 --> 01:17:42,159
Speaker 3: I think that the lack of escalators, a lack of

1730
01:17:42,159 --> 01:17:45,399
the Supermax language or the tweak in it in Jadob's case,

1731
01:17:45,479 --> 01:17:48,640
is like that's not a given, you know, like that,

1732
01:17:48,680 --> 01:17:51,119
and maybe that's the players just being amenable to that

1733
01:17:51,199 --> 01:17:53,680
and that's just another thing. Is the Thunder just kind

1734
01:17:53,720 --> 01:17:56,600
of seemed to get team oriented guys, which I don't know,

1735
01:17:56,640 --> 01:17:58,960
maybe that's maybe we should bump the grade up for that.

1736
01:17:59,319 --> 01:18:02,199
They went through the rat experience once and never again

1737
01:18:02,239 --> 01:18:05,800
there never again. Uh So, yeah, those are wins, even

1738
01:18:05,800 --> 01:18:08,079
though it's like, how how big of a win it is?

1739
01:18:08,079 --> 01:18:10,840
Is it if you more or less gave a player

1740
01:18:10,880 --> 01:18:12,960
the most they could have gotten? That's yeah, I think

1741
01:18:12,960 --> 01:18:15,000
you do needed to think about the options and the

1742
01:18:15,079 --> 01:18:19,640
lack of super Max language as significant really like, but

1743
01:18:19,840 --> 01:18:21,399
I don't know, I kind of still tend to gloss

1744
01:18:21,439 --> 01:18:24,319
over those the ones that are really just objectively awesome,

1745
01:18:24,560 --> 01:18:28,199
and we do probably over romanticize them, Like the smaller

1746
01:18:28,239 --> 01:18:30,279
deals they are just like heists, Like you said, like

1747
01:18:30,319 --> 01:18:33,399
aj Mitchell for less than three million dollars a year

1748
01:18:33,520 --> 01:18:35,760
is just like this guy's gonna play this year on

1749
01:18:35,840 --> 01:18:38,479
a team that's a like overwhelming title favorite and he's

1750
01:18:38,479 --> 01:18:42,800
gonna help for three like like that's crazy that they

1751
01:18:42,840 --> 01:18:45,840
got him for that little And Jalen Williams too, like

1752
01:18:45,880 --> 01:18:48,880
he already has played and helped on a I mean,

1753
01:18:49,239 --> 01:18:50,960
Mitchell missed time with injury last year, but he.

1754
01:18:50,960 --> 01:18:53,479
Speaker 2: Was back in the rotation in the playoffs. Same thing

1755
01:18:53,479 --> 01:18:56,720
with Williams, like eight million a year like that's and.

1756
01:18:56,840 --> 01:18:59,039
Speaker 1: You know you have injury issues on the front line,

1757
01:18:59,039 --> 01:19:01,119
like is they a Hartenstein time last year? And chet

1758
01:19:01,119 --> 01:19:04,680
Holmgren's now missed missed major time twice in his three

1759
01:19:04,760 --> 01:19:05,560
year career.

1760
01:19:05,439 --> 01:19:08,479
Speaker 3: Right, So yeah, I don't know if you know, maybe

1761
01:19:08,560 --> 01:19:10,840
there wasn't like a robust market for any of those

1762
01:19:10,840 --> 01:19:14,439
guys down the road, but like those are just great deal.

1763
01:19:14,560 --> 01:19:17,720
Like those types of deals are how you're able to

1764
01:19:17,800 --> 01:19:20,720
just be like, we've got our three max guys and

1765
01:19:20,760 --> 01:19:23,600
we're okay with it because you've got all these other movable,

1766
01:19:23,720 --> 01:19:27,800
cheap like flexibility inducing deals.

1767
01:19:28,239 --> 01:19:29,800
Speaker 2: So yeah, great offseason.

1768
01:19:29,840 --> 01:19:34,000
Speaker 1: Obviously I went with an A for them. You went

1769
01:19:34,039 --> 01:19:35,840
with a B. Plus. I think you could look at

1770
01:19:35,880 --> 01:19:40,680
things like, okay, the Dylan Jones whole rigamarole of when

1771
01:19:40,680 --> 01:19:42,720
are they going to reacquire him based off like the

1772
01:19:42,920 --> 01:19:46,720
trend of previous events. There's also I really like Nee Clifford,

1773
01:19:46,920 --> 01:19:48,800
but there was just no space for him on this team.

1774
01:19:48,800 --> 01:19:49,960
We don't even know if he would have been they

1775
01:19:50,039 --> 01:19:51,840
might have said, oh, the Kings are interested in him. No,

1776
01:19:51,880 --> 01:19:53,760
we're not going to draft him. That doesn't make any sense.

1777
01:19:54,399 --> 01:19:54,880
Speaker 2: Red flag.

1778
01:19:55,239 --> 01:19:57,399
Speaker 1: So like there's there's And to your point, I think

1779
01:19:57,399 --> 01:19:59,760
if you're going to actually give them a lower grade,

1780
01:19:59,760 --> 01:20:02,880
it's because you think that everything they did there was

1781
01:20:02,960 --> 01:20:06,039
just no decision on their part. And with Shae. Shae

1782
01:20:06,079 --> 01:20:10,000
is the example. If their entire offseason was Shay's Supermax

1783
01:20:10,000 --> 01:20:12,520
to where it was, yeah, this is it's laid out

1784
01:20:12,520 --> 01:20:15,520
of every seven stone, then sure that's a C. But

1785
01:20:15,720 --> 01:20:18,439
it wasn't like they won. It was small victories here

1786
01:20:18,439 --> 01:20:19,840
and there. But for a team that didn't need to

1787
01:20:19,840 --> 01:20:22,239
do much and didn't have a ton of flexibility this summer.

1788
01:20:22,960 --> 01:20:24,600
I was gonna give them an F because they didn't

1789
01:20:24,600 --> 01:20:25,720
try to trade free honest.

1790
01:20:25,760 --> 01:20:28,640
Speaker 2: But we'll let it slide, wait till next year.

1791
01:20:28,840 --> 01:20:32,760
Speaker 1: We're onto This is my team, right. The Portland Trailblazers

1792
01:20:33,039 --> 01:20:35,800
a lot of fascinating teams in the Western Conference, especially

1793
01:20:35,840 --> 01:20:38,720
relative to the East, but they signed Chauncea Phillips to

1794
01:20:38,760 --> 01:20:41,560
a three year extension. They traded number eleven, which was

1795
01:20:41,640 --> 01:20:45,560
Cedric Coward, to Memphis. That's a typo on screen for

1796
01:20:45,840 --> 01:20:50,199
number sixteen, which was Jan Hanson, Orlando's twenty twenty eight

1797
01:20:50,479 --> 01:20:53,159
first round pick. Atlanta's twenty twenty seven second round pick

1798
01:20:53,199 --> 01:20:57,000
in Sacramento's twenty twenty eight second round pick, so again

1799
01:20:57,119 --> 01:20:59,800
to move down five spots. They got an additional for

1800
01:21:00,000 --> 01:21:02,439
Trump pick an additional two seconds, and got Young Hansom,

1801
01:21:02,439 --> 01:21:04,880
who is the guy that everyone believes they wanted. They

1802
01:21:04,920 --> 01:21:07,239
bought out DeAndre Ayton. He gave them back about ten

1803
01:21:07,319 --> 01:21:10,159
million dollars and they did not wave and stretch him.

1804
01:21:10,159 --> 01:21:12,359
They're just eating the twenty five point six million dollars

1805
01:21:12,399 --> 01:21:15,880
remaining this season. They proceeded to trade Anthony Simons to

1806
01:21:15,960 --> 01:21:18,880
Boston for Drew Holliday and then they got Damian Lillard

1807
01:21:18,960 --> 01:21:22,119
back Vibes All Vibes signed him to a three year,

1808
01:21:22,239 --> 01:21:24,920
forty one point six million dollar deal out of the

1809
01:21:25,039 --> 01:21:28,680
non tax MLE. The salary actually dips in year two

1810
01:21:28,800 --> 01:21:30,920
before going back up to the same level in year

1811
01:21:31,000 --> 01:21:33,479
one in year three, so it comes out to about

1812
01:21:33,520 --> 01:21:35,840
eight point four percent of the salary cap. He has

1813
01:21:35,880 --> 01:21:37,920
a player option on the final season and a full

1814
01:21:38,000 --> 01:21:40,600
no trade clause because the years of service to qualify

1815
01:21:40,720 --> 01:21:43,920
do not need to be consecutive. They signed Blake Wesley

1816
01:21:43,920 --> 01:21:46,000
to a one year minimum deal and then grant the

1817
01:21:46,159 --> 01:21:50,319
biggest the single biggest, most pivotal move not just for

1818
01:21:50,359 --> 01:21:54,079
the Blazers this offseason, but the entire league. Portland guaranteed

1819
01:21:54,279 --> 01:21:55,880
the contract of Duop Breath.

1820
01:21:56,359 --> 01:21:59,199
Speaker 3: Well, it's big signed with Chris Bouchet getting that deal

1821
01:21:59,279 --> 01:22:01,960
with the Celtics. But okay, I guess we'll just pretend like.

1822
01:22:02,000 --> 01:22:02,520
Speaker 2: That to happen.

1823
01:22:02,920 --> 01:22:05,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, on the mount rushmore of off season moves, those

1824
01:22:05,880 --> 01:22:09,960
two are definitely on there. This was a weird.

1825
01:22:09,760 --> 01:22:14,840
Speaker 3: Offseason trying to do that's the question, Dan, because Drew Holliday,

1826
01:22:16,960 --> 01:22:19,079
like he doesn't make a ton of sense here for

1827
01:22:19,359 --> 01:22:22,319
a couple of reasons, Like he's quite a bit older

1828
01:22:22,359 --> 01:22:26,680
than their core players. The shooting may be like dipped

1829
01:22:26,720 --> 01:22:30,159
and may not be a thing going forward. He's kind

1830
01:22:30,159 --> 01:22:31,920
of in the way of some of the guys that

1831
01:22:31,960 --> 01:22:38,279
they might want to be developing. Scoot Henderson particularly measured

1832
01:22:38,319 --> 01:22:40,760
against that though, Like and I guess you throw Lillard

1833
01:22:40,800 --> 01:22:42,760
in there too. It's like that that is like you said,

1834
01:22:42,800 --> 01:22:43,760
that is just a vibe thing.

1835
01:22:43,880 --> 01:22:46,760
Speaker 2: I love it. I I but like as a basketball move,

1836
01:22:46,840 --> 01:22:47,159
I don't know.

1837
01:22:47,920 --> 01:22:49,520
Speaker 3: He's just he's not gonna play and then when he

1838
01:22:49,640 --> 01:22:53,399
is ready to play in year two, he's kind of

1839
01:22:53,520 --> 01:22:56,039
a similar situation with Holiday where it's like you're a

1840
01:22:56,079 --> 01:22:58,720
little bit in the way and are you cool clearly

1841
01:22:58,800 --> 01:23:00,920
accepting like a mentort.

1842
01:23:01,119 --> 01:23:04,399
Speaker 1: Scary is that they need Damian little Like Damian Lillard

1843
01:23:04,479 --> 01:23:07,199
is probably going to have the highest off ball gravity

1844
01:23:07,359 --> 01:23:09,640
on this team and he's not even gonna be attending games.

1845
01:23:09,960 --> 01:23:13,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, that'll just hang defenders will hang out near the bench.

1846
01:23:13,640 --> 01:23:16,880
And I got yelled at so many times for leaving

1847
01:23:16,920 --> 01:23:20,800
this guy, So it is it is confusing, I think,

1848
01:23:21,720 --> 01:23:23,760
I mean, do we give them credit for kind of

1849
01:23:23,840 --> 01:23:26,439
doing something similar last year where it's like you're giving

1850
01:23:26,520 --> 01:23:28,840
up the bub Carrington pick for Avdia even though we

1851
01:23:28,920 --> 01:23:32,560
love Avidia, like we like like Holiday, that doesn't quite fit.

1852
01:23:32,840 --> 01:23:36,439
Holiday is way older and the Avidia thing worked out

1853
01:23:36,520 --> 01:23:39,119
with like that worked with Flying Colors. But you know

1854
01:23:39,159 --> 01:23:41,239
what I mean, like they've kind of done this before

1855
01:23:41,359 --> 01:23:44,279
and gotten good results, so maybe some benefit of the

1856
01:23:44,359 --> 01:23:47,199
doubt there. It is just a little confusing because you

1857
01:23:47,279 --> 01:23:49,640
did go real old and you've got this young cores,

1858
01:23:49,680 --> 01:23:51,960
a lot of which contributed to twenty three and eighteen

1859
01:23:52,000 --> 01:23:55,199
finish down the stretch last year. How worried are you

1860
01:23:55,279 --> 01:23:56,760
about some of these guys kind of being in the

1861
01:23:56,800 --> 01:23:58,279
way of players you want to develop.

1862
01:23:58,359 --> 01:23:58,760
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1863
01:23:59,760 --> 01:24:03,279
Speaker 3: I'm not super concerned about it. It just is like

1864
01:24:03,600 --> 01:24:05,319
incongruous in some ways.

1865
01:24:05,399 --> 01:24:06,359
Speaker 2: Is that kind of where you're at.

1866
01:24:06,399 --> 01:24:09,399
Speaker 3: It's like the pieces don't quite make sense together as

1867
01:24:09,439 --> 01:24:10,640
part of a coherent plan.

1868
01:24:11,199 --> 01:24:13,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, one hundred and I think you could question whether

1869
01:24:14,279 --> 01:24:17,199
leaning into the offensive identity they flashed last year is

1870
01:24:17,359 --> 01:24:20,159
the right move or rush to kind of read into

1871
01:24:20,199 --> 01:24:22,239
what happened just because they still were on the season.

1872
01:24:22,279 --> 01:24:25,039
I think twenty seventh in points alot per possession against

1873
01:24:25,079 --> 01:24:28,479
top ten offenses. Okay, and they had a big chunk

1874
01:24:28,520 --> 01:24:30,319
of their season. What's encouraging is there was a young

1875
01:24:30,399 --> 01:24:34,760
guys or long term pieces driving a lot of their performance.

1876
01:24:35,159 --> 01:24:37,279
But how much do you read into that portion of

1877
01:24:37,359 --> 01:24:40,680
the season specifically? I think what I have the biggest

1878
01:24:40,720 --> 01:24:45,359
problem reconciling is that even if this is about leaning

1879
01:24:45,399 --> 01:24:47,960
into defense or you're not trying to like you didn't

1880
01:24:48,000 --> 01:24:51,239
do anything damaging, it feels like you made it harder

1881
01:24:51,800 --> 01:24:55,000
to kind of discern what you have in Shade and

1882
01:24:55,079 --> 01:24:59,079
Sharp and Scoot Henderson specifically, because the spacing the shooting

1883
01:24:59,199 --> 01:25:03,079
on this team is so lacking that I don't think

1884
01:25:03,199 --> 01:25:05,920
either of those guys are truly set up to succeed,

1885
01:25:06,039 --> 01:25:09,520
even though Scoot Henderson got better incrementally, probably a little

1886
01:25:09,520 --> 01:25:12,800
bit more than that last year. And it's maybe it's

1887
01:25:12,880 --> 01:25:15,399
interesting also to have Drew Hoddy and Damian Lollard there.

1888
01:25:15,439 --> 01:25:17,279
What kind of pressure does that put him under? Is

1889
01:25:17,319 --> 01:25:19,079
that a good thing? Is it? Is it a bad thing?

1890
01:25:19,920 --> 01:25:24,199
It's not even about opfu skating the like the value

1891
01:25:24,319 --> 01:25:26,560
or the playing time for some of these younger players.

1892
01:25:26,600 --> 01:25:29,680
It's did you actively hinder what they're going to be

1893
01:25:29,760 --> 01:25:32,319
able to do during their court time because you you

1894
01:25:32,439 --> 01:25:35,920
took one of the league's clunkiest half court offenses when

1895
01:25:35,920 --> 01:25:38,960
you look at the spacing and you made it worse. Yeah,

1896
01:25:39,960 --> 01:25:42,399
just by virtue of like you know, Tara and Rose

1897
01:25:42,399 --> 01:25:44,239
had pointed this out to me on the Blazers Look Ahead.

1898
01:25:44,439 --> 01:25:46,359
The way teams were defending Anthony Simon's is that you

1899
01:25:46,359 --> 01:25:48,880
would thought he was Steph Curry at points last year.

1900
01:25:49,079 --> 01:25:52,079
And so who are they who they care about? Like

1901
01:25:52,079 --> 01:25:54,399
they'll care about guarding Dennyavya, but away from the ball,

1902
01:25:54,439 --> 01:25:55,720
who do they care about guarding?

1903
01:25:56,239 --> 01:25:57,239
Speaker 2: Yeah? That makes it tough.

1904
01:25:57,439 --> 01:26:01,720
Speaker 3: I think Devil, like Devil's Advocate case is like with

1905
01:26:01,920 --> 01:26:05,079
both Sharp and Henderson, which are kind of the two

1906
01:26:05,119 --> 01:26:09,239
guys we're sort of indirectly talking about here being affected negatively.

1907
01:26:09,319 --> 01:26:10,199
Speaker 1: To repair as well.

1908
01:26:10,279 --> 01:26:12,359
Speaker 2: But it's sure, sure, uh.

1909
01:26:13,079 --> 01:26:15,399
Speaker 3: Are they at the point in their careers where it's

1910
01:26:15,439 --> 01:26:19,079
like figure it out, guys, you know, like where it's

1911
01:26:19,159 --> 01:26:21,720
not like we need to we need to baby them.

1912
01:26:22,000 --> 01:26:24,239
You know, like, hey, you know you want spacing? How

1913
01:26:24,279 --> 01:26:26,319
about you guys do it? You know, like they're there

1914
01:26:26,479 --> 01:26:28,359
maybe far enough along where you can start to be

1915
01:26:28,520 --> 01:26:31,439
like a little bit more, especially considering where they were drafted,

1916
01:26:31,560 --> 01:26:34,840
especially considering the talent. This again Devil's advocate. But it's

1917
01:26:34,920 --> 01:26:37,760
like some element, some element of your spacing needs to

1918
01:26:37,800 --> 01:26:40,119
come from your guards and so just like you guys

1919
01:26:40,199 --> 01:26:43,000
have to provide it that that's that's gonna be an

1920
01:26:43,039 --> 01:26:45,279
aspect of if you're gonna be the players we hope

1921
01:26:45,319 --> 01:26:48,279
you are. You gotta do some of this, you know,

1922
01:26:48,479 --> 01:26:50,079
Like maybe that's Portland's stance on it.

1923
01:26:50,479 --> 01:26:52,640
Speaker 1: There's a mental push and pull there for me because

1924
01:26:52,640 --> 01:26:54,960
I look at it one way and if I agree

1925
01:26:55,000 --> 01:26:56,680
with that case, even if it's not one that you

1926
01:26:56,720 --> 01:26:59,520
would hang your hat on by saying yeah, Because one

1927
01:26:59,560 --> 01:27:02,960
of my cons is one of Scoot or Shade Sharp

1928
01:27:03,039 --> 01:27:05,640
is probably not going to close like be a member

1929
01:27:05,720 --> 01:27:07,560
of the go to closing unit when you look at

1930
01:27:07,600 --> 01:27:09,760
the way the roster is made up, well, starting is

1931
01:27:10,079 --> 01:27:13,760
to I agree, but starting is just like yeah, and

1932
01:27:14,079 --> 01:27:17,359
but then it to your point or your hypothetical point.

1933
01:27:17,399 --> 01:27:19,720
It's all right, especially Shade and Sharp, Like this year

1934
01:27:19,800 --> 01:27:21,439
four buddy, Like, if we don't think that you can

1935
01:27:21,520 --> 01:27:25,399
close over Jeremy Grant or Tomaty Kamara, who's Tommy Tomorrow's fantastic,

1936
01:27:25,439 --> 01:27:27,439
So that's not fair. But if we don't think if

1937
01:27:27,479 --> 01:27:29,439
we want to close with Jeremy Grant or Drew Holiday

1938
01:27:29,479 --> 01:27:30,920
over you, like that's more of a new.

1939
01:27:31,000 --> 01:27:33,760
Speaker 2: Problem than in us problem and bigger picture.

1940
01:27:33,840 --> 01:27:35,720
Speaker 3: Also, I'm really kind of getting into this take I

1941
01:27:35,720 --> 01:27:38,039
think might actually make it seriously.

1942
01:27:37,840 --> 01:27:40,720
Speaker 1: Like wait, where are the clouds in the walking stick? Right?

1943
01:27:40,920 --> 01:27:44,399
Speaker 3: Well, the thing is like, as the Blazers, you've got

1944
01:27:44,479 --> 01:27:46,960
to ask yourself like, well, how many really good teams

1945
01:27:47,000 --> 01:27:50,840
that actually do anything have spacing issues from both guards?

1946
01:27:51,319 --> 01:27:54,600
Like not a lot, so at least like maybe this

1947
01:27:54,760 --> 01:27:56,439
year is when we find out, like, all right, neither

1948
01:27:56,479 --> 01:27:57,199
of these guys.

1949
01:27:57,119 --> 01:27:57,640
Speaker 2: Is gonna do it.

1950
01:27:58,119 --> 01:28:00,680
Speaker 3: So guess what they're not core pieces in anymore, you know,

1951
01:28:00,800 --> 01:28:02,760
like I don't know, like you're gonna get They are

1952
01:28:02,840 --> 01:28:04,840
again far not just to not they're far enough from

1953
01:28:04,840 --> 01:28:06,640
their careers to not just be like babied and like

1954
01:28:07,159 --> 01:28:10,119
built so carefully around to like make it easy. It's

1955
01:28:10,159 --> 01:28:11,800
also like they're at a point in their careers where

1956
01:28:11,800 --> 01:28:14,840
the Blazers need to I mean, Sharp's extension eligible now

1957
01:28:15,000 --> 01:28:17,920
right like so, so like they're at a point where

1958
01:28:17,920 --> 01:28:20,359
they need to start making decisions. And if these guys

1959
01:28:20,399 --> 01:28:23,680
can't space, then shit like decision made. I guess as

1960
01:28:23,760 --> 01:28:26,399
far as like are you you know, real pillars of

1961
01:28:26,439 --> 01:28:27,520
this whole thing, I don't know.

1962
01:28:28,359 --> 01:28:30,720
Speaker 1: So this was one of the tougher grades for me

1963
01:28:30,840 --> 01:28:32,760
to give. I went with a C midas you went

1964
01:28:32,800 --> 01:28:34,840
with a C plus. I think I don't have a

1965
01:28:34,960 --> 01:28:38,239
problem with anything they did on balance, but you can't

1966
01:28:38,279 --> 01:28:41,159
take last year's spacing and make it worse. That's to me,

1967
01:28:41,279 --> 01:28:42,359
that's just inexcusable.

1968
01:28:42,680 --> 01:28:45,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, I I this, I kind of broke it down

1969
01:28:45,520 --> 01:28:47,159
a little bit more because I never did land on

1970
01:28:47,359 --> 01:28:49,680
like what the whole goal was. But like, I think

1971
01:28:49,760 --> 01:28:52,840
the trade with Memphis was a good one. You're getting

1972
01:28:52,880 --> 01:28:55,800
multiple assets there, I think getting eight and off the

1973
01:28:55,840 --> 01:28:58,800
team is a good thing. I think Simon's for holiday

1974
01:28:58,840 --> 01:29:01,920
is an upgrade. So it's just like I like most

1975
01:29:01,960 --> 01:29:03,760
of their transactions. Nothing blew me away.

1976
01:29:05,600 --> 01:29:07,760
Speaker 1: I think there's a chance this and I say this

1977
01:29:07,920 --> 01:29:10,119
is someone I did a long segment with it, when

1978
01:29:10,119 --> 01:29:12,560
I did the Blazers Look Ahead with Tara and Rose

1979
01:29:12,880 --> 01:29:15,560
Me and you talked about it. I think Young Handsome

1980
01:29:15,640 --> 01:29:17,560
is going to be spectacular. But you can't look at

1981
01:29:17,600 --> 01:29:20,159
that and already like giving it a eight plus grade.

1982
01:29:20,279 --> 01:29:22,479
We just don't know. We also don't know. They have

1983
01:29:22,880 --> 01:29:25,039
wat wreathed Robert Williams the third and Donovan clintond on

1984
01:29:25,119 --> 01:29:26,640
his team. So that's another guy where it's well, how

1985
01:29:26,720 --> 01:29:29,520
much is he going to play our next team? They're

1986
01:29:29,560 --> 01:29:30,159
your team, right?

1987
01:29:30,560 --> 01:29:30,960
Speaker 2: I think so.

1988
01:29:31,880 --> 01:29:35,359
Speaker 3: The ut Utah Jazz time head coach Will Hardy got

1989
01:29:35,359 --> 01:29:38,680
a four year extension, just like you gotta you know,

1990
01:29:38,840 --> 01:29:41,159
you gotta give him something for having to deal with

1991
01:29:41,239 --> 01:29:42,079
this for this long.

1992
01:29:42,439 --> 01:29:44,199
Speaker 1: Yo who didn't get a four year's extension?

1993
01:29:44,720 --> 01:29:45,039
Speaker 2: Who's that?

1994
01:29:45,239 --> 01:29:46,119
Speaker 1: He's Caucasian and.

1995
01:29:46,199 --> 01:29:51,239
Speaker 2: Tall, Dan that could be anyone on the chess uh

1996
01:29:53,199 --> 01:29:53,880
They drafted.

1997
01:29:54,239 --> 01:29:56,600
Speaker 3: They drafted Ace Bailey at number five we will discuss

1998
01:29:56,720 --> 01:29:59,840
that they traded number twenty one Will Riley, number forty

1999
01:29:59,840 --> 01:30:02,319
three e Jimir Walkins, a twenty thirty one second most

2000
01:30:02,319 --> 01:30:04,520
favorable of the Pacers and the Heat, and a twenty

2001
01:30:04,600 --> 01:30:07,039
thirty two second which is their own, to the Wizards

2002
01:30:07,119 --> 01:30:10,640
for number eighteen to draft Walter Clayton junior. They traded

2003
01:30:10,680 --> 01:30:13,760
Colin Sexton and this isn't a typo, even though it

2004
01:30:13,800 --> 01:30:16,600
should be a twenty thirty second to Charlotte for use

2005
01:30:16,640 --> 01:30:19,039
of Nurkic. That twenty thirty second is the most favorable

2006
01:30:19,079 --> 01:30:21,800
of the Jazz's own and the Clippers so well, who

2007
01:30:21,880 --> 01:30:23,760
knows the Jazz might be good by then, but that's

2008
01:30:23,760 --> 01:30:27,520
a decent second. They drafted John Tanji at fifty three.

2009
01:30:27,720 --> 01:30:31,600
They bought out Jordan Clarkson, much to Dan's delight, saved

2010
01:30:31,600 --> 01:30:34,000
three point six million ten point seven million in dead

2011
01:30:34,039 --> 01:30:37,720
money on this upcoming season's books. Then, in a three

2012
01:30:37,800 --> 01:30:41,199
team deal with involving the Clippers in the Heat, the

2013
01:30:41,319 --> 01:30:44,119
Jet traded John Collins to the Clippers for Kyle Anderson

2014
01:30:44,159 --> 01:30:46,960
and Kevin Love the Clippers twenty seven second and two

2015
01:30:47,000 --> 01:30:48,000
point five million in cash.

2016
01:30:48,000 --> 01:30:51,960
Speaker 2: Also from the Clippers. Smaller scale, they traded j R. J.

2017
01:30:52,079 --> 01:30:55,119
Speaker 3: Lewis Junior for George Niang a twenty seven second that's

2018
01:30:55,119 --> 01:30:57,520
the most favorable of Boston and Orlando and a twenty

2019
01:30:57,560 --> 01:31:00,680
thirty one second round swap. Then Martin, it was a

2020
01:31:00,680 --> 01:31:03,840
good while lasted. The deal it was always destined to

2021
01:31:03,920 --> 01:31:06,039
be waived or traded, was in fact waived. No more

2022
01:31:06,760 --> 01:31:11,279
kJ Martin on the Jazz. So Dan, we probably ought

2023
01:31:11,359 --> 01:31:13,920
to talk about Bailey first, just because that's kind of

2024
01:31:13,960 --> 01:31:17,199
the most interesting aspect of the offseason. Even though picks,

2025
01:31:17,880 --> 01:31:21,039
even ones that high, don't tend to factor too heavily,

2026
01:31:21,119 --> 01:31:23,760
but this one feels significant because it was risky, and

2027
01:31:24,119 --> 01:31:26,479
like we both kind of agreed it was the right risk.

2028
01:31:26,560 --> 01:31:30,039
Speaker 1: I guess you needed to make this type of upside swing.

2029
01:31:30,159 --> 01:31:32,520
And I would have said, like Ace Bailey for them

2030
01:31:32,560 --> 01:31:34,640
would have been the answer at number four. Just I

2031
01:31:34,800 --> 01:31:36,399
like Conkin Nipple, but like if they were not, like

2032
01:31:36,439 --> 01:31:38,000
you know, you take him at number four.

2033
01:31:38,199 --> 01:31:42,600
Speaker 2: I think the answer at four, but go ahead.

2034
01:31:43,039 --> 01:31:44,720
Speaker 1: Why would he have been the answer at four just

2035
01:31:44,760 --> 01:31:45,760
because he's a great player?

2036
01:31:45,920 --> 01:31:46,239
Speaker 2: Just play?

2037
01:31:49,560 --> 01:31:51,159
Speaker 1: So I like, this is a pick that you I

2038
01:31:51,439 --> 01:31:53,399
like the risk, but there is a risk. It wasn't

2039
01:31:53,479 --> 01:31:55,239
just sort of this no brainer decision. He was trying

2040
01:31:55,279 --> 01:31:57,479
to get to Washington who had the number. They were

2041
01:31:57,560 --> 01:32:00,640
number six. They took Trey Jones there, right, so we

2042
01:32:00,680 --> 01:32:02,159
don't know if it's gonna pan out, but that's the

2043
01:32:02,199 --> 01:32:03,640
type of player you need to draft. And then it

2044
01:32:03,720 --> 01:32:05,840
gets into I think that bleeds into the rest of

2045
01:32:05,880 --> 01:32:09,760
their offseason to where there was that joke about when

2046
01:32:10,119 --> 01:32:12,520
why do I Austin Ainge Wright was We're not gonna

2047
01:32:12,520 --> 01:32:15,399
tank anymore, and like he wasn't lying. He was also

2048
01:32:15,479 --> 01:32:18,079
taken out of context, but he wasn't lying. Where they're

2049
01:32:18,119 --> 01:32:20,479
gonna start sitting guys. They're just not gonna have anyone

2050
01:32:20,520 --> 01:32:23,600
who can drive winning aside from Larry Market and Walker Kessler,

2051
01:32:23,680 --> 01:32:26,079
so they don't need to sit anybody else. I say

2052
01:32:26,119 --> 01:32:29,039
that tongue in cheap, but like, no, you just wrapped

2053
01:32:29,079 --> 01:32:31,880
up year three of the reset, and like, this is

2054
01:32:31,960 --> 01:32:33,439
what you need to be doing is to get as

2055
01:32:33,479 --> 01:32:36,199
many high and it's not even trying to get you

2056
01:32:36,359 --> 01:32:39,239
now need to make damn sure you get. And they

2057
01:32:39,279 --> 01:32:41,479
did that to some extent last season. You've done that

2058
01:32:41,600 --> 01:32:45,600
to a greater extent this coming season. With all that said,

2059
01:32:45,640 --> 01:32:47,039
I have two points before I throw it back to

2060
01:32:47,079 --> 01:32:49,239
you one. I actually think the pick that I would

2061
01:32:49,239 --> 01:32:51,640
grade out higher just because Ace Bailey was unless you

2062
01:32:51,680 --> 01:32:53,520
really thought he wasn't gonna report, And I just never

2063
01:32:53,600 --> 01:32:56,800
bought into that. Getting Walter Clayton Junior, I think is

2064
01:32:56,840 --> 01:32:58,359
gonna end up being a home run for them. That

2065
01:32:58,520 --> 01:33:01,439
guy's offensive armory is just so deep. All the stuff

2066
01:33:01,439 --> 01:33:03,039
that he was kind of doing in Summer League, like

2067
01:33:03,399 --> 01:33:07,560
curling around screens, the gathering escape dribbles, the snaking pick

2068
01:33:07,600 --> 01:33:10,159
and rolls, getting defenders on his back hip. I just

2069
01:33:10,359 --> 01:33:12,039
I really like that pick for them, and they need

2070
01:33:12,159 --> 01:33:13,600
just more of those. I don't think he's gonna be

2071
01:33:13,640 --> 01:33:15,600
a star, but they need more of those guys who

2072
01:33:15,640 --> 01:33:18,840
can come in and just give you higher upside than

2073
01:33:18,880 --> 01:33:20,760
you might think that they have, or just higher upside

2074
01:33:20,760 --> 01:33:22,920
than Oh this is like our might be our seventh

2075
01:33:22,960 --> 01:33:24,920
best player one day on a good team. I think

2076
01:33:24,960 --> 01:33:28,640
he has that. I still, for the life of me, Grant,

2077
01:33:28,880 --> 01:33:31,479
have no idea what was going on with the use

2078
01:33:31,520 --> 01:33:35,159
of Nurkics trade. You gave up the better player on

2079
01:33:35,279 --> 01:33:38,159
the better contract and then attached to second round pick.

2080
01:33:38,600 --> 01:33:42,479
Have you come up with any rationalization for the thinking here?

2081
01:33:43,000 --> 01:33:45,199
Speaker 2: I am officially at the point where like there's something

2082
01:33:45,239 --> 01:33:45,720
we don't know.

2083
01:33:47,319 --> 01:33:49,399
Speaker 3: On some side of this deal, because it does it

2084
01:33:49,479 --> 01:33:52,039
doesn't make sense, like Nurkic is not a better player

2085
01:33:52,079 --> 01:33:56,000
than Sexton in a vacuum, like like the only rationalization

2086
01:33:56,199 --> 01:34:00,239
I could get to, I guess And if you're like

2087
01:34:00,399 --> 01:34:04,479
Sexton was in the way of of both of Clayton

2088
01:34:04,600 --> 01:34:06,960
and George and Collier, we got to get him off

2089
01:34:07,000 --> 01:34:08,760
the roster. Nurkic isn't good enough to be in the

2090
01:34:08,800 --> 01:34:11,600
way of anybody, like, you know, like that maybe that's it,

2091
01:34:11,720 --> 01:34:13,279
and that's worth giving up a second.

2092
01:34:14,560 --> 01:34:17,760
Speaker 2: I just that's you know, that's not a good justification.

2093
01:34:18,359 --> 01:34:21,239
Speaker 1: I've mentioned this and our audience are probably tired of it.

2094
01:34:21,479 --> 01:34:24,399
I would respect it more. The conspiracy theory that was

2095
01:34:24,439 --> 01:34:27,439
floated around is if the Jazz did this to prevent

2096
01:34:27,760 --> 01:34:31,119
Charlotte from taking Ace Bailey, and if Colin Sexton and

2097
01:34:31,199 --> 01:34:32,720
that second is all it took for them not to

2098
01:34:32,800 --> 01:34:36,840
take Ace Bailey home Runazz.

2099
01:34:37,520 --> 01:34:39,279
Speaker 2: Retract, retract all criticism.

2100
01:34:40,279 --> 01:34:43,279
Speaker 3: No, I think, like, yeah, I just to just to

2101
01:34:44,079 --> 01:34:47,520
throw in my two cents on Bailey, like wildly risky

2102
01:34:47,600 --> 01:34:50,039
pick for like every reason, not the least of which

2103
01:34:50,119 --> 01:34:51,520
is like maybe he didn't want to be there in

2104
01:34:51,560 --> 01:34:54,520
the first place. But also like, it is not a

2105
01:34:54,600 --> 01:34:56,880
given that this guy's going to be a good NBA player,

2106
01:34:57,000 --> 01:34:59,600
like at all based on his college track record, So

2107
01:35:00,600 --> 01:35:01,119
you're you're.

2108
01:35:01,000 --> 01:35:02,079
Speaker 2: Making the upside play.

2109
01:35:02,239 --> 01:35:04,039
Speaker 3: It's the type of thing you do if you're sort

2110
01:35:04,079 --> 01:35:06,039
of desperate at the end of a three year rebuild

2111
01:35:06,039 --> 01:35:06,840
that has built nothing.

2112
01:35:07,479 --> 01:35:09,560
Speaker 2: So I'm on board. I think it's the right move.

2113
01:35:09,640 --> 01:35:13,319
Speaker 3: The ceiling is there, it might not work, and even

2114
01:35:13,359 --> 01:35:16,479
if it does, like this is a the Jazz are

2115
01:35:16,560 --> 01:35:18,399
just not in a good spot young talent wise, Like

2116
01:35:18,680 --> 01:35:21,760
to to illustrate that, the Clayton pick is one you

2117
01:35:21,800 --> 01:35:24,680
would normally say, well, like the Sexton logic, like.

2118
01:35:24,680 --> 01:35:25,439
Speaker 2: Well he's now he's in.

2119
01:35:25,560 --> 01:35:28,520
Speaker 3: What about Collier and George Like he's kinda you can't

2120
01:35:28,520 --> 01:35:30,159
play them all. It's like, well, neither of those two

2121
01:35:30,199 --> 01:35:33,880
guys did enough to show that they're like players you

2122
01:35:33,920 --> 01:35:36,800
should care about drafting somebody you know to play over

2123
01:35:37,000 --> 01:35:39,520
So and that's I think kind of the issue with

2124
01:35:39,640 --> 01:35:41,039
the entire young core.

2125
01:35:40,960 --> 01:35:44,319
Speaker 2: Of players on this on this team. So that's that's neither.

2126
01:35:44,520 --> 01:35:47,199
Speaker 3: I guess that's not super Germane to the overall offseason discussion,

2127
01:35:47,239 --> 01:35:49,039
but it's just I'm trying to illustrate like where Utah

2128
01:35:49,199 --> 01:35:51,319
is and why the Bailey risk is super worth it

2129
01:35:51,640 --> 01:35:54,960
because just everywhere else, you're like, I don't know, Philipowski

2130
01:35:55,079 --> 01:35:56,880
is good on offense, sucks on defense.

2131
01:35:56,920 --> 01:35:58,000
Speaker 2: I don't know what he's going to be on a

2132
01:35:58,039 --> 01:36:01,079
good team. Taylor Hendrix, Cody William just run down the list.

2133
01:36:02,520 --> 01:36:02,840
I don't know.

2134
01:36:02,920 --> 01:36:04,640
Speaker 3: Maybe the other thing to talk about, I guess real

2135
01:36:04,720 --> 01:36:07,760
quickly before we give him a grade, is no extension

2136
01:36:07,800 --> 01:36:11,119
for Walker Kessler. He's one of two with marketing like

2137
01:36:11,399 --> 01:36:14,680
actual starters, like NBA level starters on this team, Like,

2138
01:36:15,439 --> 01:36:17,880
are you okay with them not extending him, because there's

2139
01:36:17,920 --> 01:36:19,520
a pretty straight logic to it.

2140
01:36:20,079 --> 01:36:22,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's optionality. It's either they're gonna have more financial

2141
01:36:22,560 --> 01:36:25,439
flexibility next summer working with his cap hold, or it

2142
01:36:25,520 --> 01:36:27,039
makes it easier to trade him in the middle of

2143
01:36:27,039 --> 01:36:29,119
the season. And I think for where the Jazz are at,

2144
01:36:29,760 --> 01:36:32,800
that's probably the right call. And I don't I don't

2145
01:36:32,840 --> 01:36:34,600
have a huge issue especially if like he's kind of

2146
01:36:34,960 --> 01:36:37,880
is there this understanding that if he reaches restricted free agency,

2147
01:36:38,000 --> 01:36:40,479
they're just going to pay him anyway. It's what the

2148
01:36:40,520 --> 01:36:43,800
Sixers did with Maxie, except in this case, it feels

2149
01:36:43,840 --> 01:36:46,319
like there's a chance they might trade Walker Kessler rather

2150
01:36:46,399 --> 01:36:49,319
than if Look, if you're trading for Walker Kessler, you're

2151
01:36:49,439 --> 01:36:51,359
going to be in all likelihood you're going to be

2152
01:36:51,399 --> 01:36:54,079
planning on paying Walker Kessler. So he's I'm assuming're not

2153
01:36:54,119 --> 01:36:56,800
gonna have a problem with it. I understand the logic

2154
01:36:56,920 --> 01:37:00,239
there if you thought you were close, because like there's

2155
01:37:00,359 --> 01:37:03,560
Walker Kesler is like a transformative rimp protector, but he's

2156
01:37:03,720 --> 01:37:06,840
not the difference between you being like a playoff team

2157
01:37:06,920 --> 01:37:09,720
and a bottom feeding team next year. So if you

2158
01:37:09,800 --> 01:37:11,680
thought that was the difference, I think you ding them

2159
01:37:11,760 --> 01:37:13,920
for it. But where do you end up with it? No?

2160
01:37:14,079 --> 01:37:14,840
Speaker 2: I agree with that.

2161
01:37:14,960 --> 01:37:17,479
Speaker 3: I think it's just I don't know how much better

2162
01:37:17,800 --> 01:37:20,399
Kessler would have to be for it to be like

2163
01:37:20,560 --> 01:37:22,560
this is a problem that you didn't extend him at

2164
01:37:22,600 --> 01:37:26,439
your first opportunity. But like Maxi is a great comp

2165
01:37:26,520 --> 01:37:28,800
where it's like Maxie was a better player than Kesler

2166
01:37:28,840 --> 01:37:31,279
and the Sixers did kind of a similar thing, So

2167
01:37:32,159 --> 01:37:33,479
he's not in a position to get Ben out of

2168
01:37:33,520 --> 01:37:36,960
shape about it. Yeah, so where do we land grade wise?

2169
01:37:37,000 --> 01:37:37,119
Speaker 2: Here?

2170
01:37:38,439 --> 01:37:40,000
Speaker 1: I gave it, we both just see min As look

2171
01:37:40,039 --> 01:37:42,840
at that. We're in lockstep. And that's what's weird is

2172
01:37:42,880 --> 01:37:45,720
because you baley as it was an above average pick

2173
01:37:45,760 --> 01:37:48,159
for us because there was risk involved. So it has

2174
01:37:48,239 --> 01:37:50,760
like very and there's the upside there, but right now

2175
01:37:50,800 --> 01:37:53,760
it's they very easily could have been scared out of

2176
01:37:53,920 --> 01:37:56,720
taking him and worr't. But I mean, we talked about

2177
01:37:56,760 --> 01:37:59,439
the Sexton deal and just the the rest of the

2178
01:37:59,479 --> 01:38:03,119
offseason was prided around like just creating flexibility, like got

2179
01:38:03,199 --> 01:38:05,159
rid of John Collins, but you cleared the deck for

2180
01:38:05,279 --> 01:38:07,960
some of your youngsters, which is I think that's totally fine,

2181
01:38:08,000 --> 01:38:10,640
But what like what about their off season was a

2182
01:38:11,319 --> 01:38:14,079
like a level stuff? I don't know. Yeah, Walter Clayton Jr.

2183
01:38:14,159 --> 01:38:17,520
Speaker 3: Maybe couldn't get anything for Clarkson, didn't get much for Collins,

2184
01:38:17,840 --> 01:38:20,039
didn't get anything for Kenny Martin Junior.

2185
01:38:20,119 --> 01:38:22,560
Speaker 2: Like maybe there's some opportunities missed there. Just kind of me.

2186
01:38:23,119 --> 01:38:26,520
Speaker 1: We're on to the Golden State Warriors, who are They've

2187
01:38:26,560 --> 01:38:30,800
got a very theoretical offseason grant. So we have listed

2188
01:38:30,880 --> 01:38:33,640
here the transactions that we think are going to happen

2189
01:38:33,800 --> 01:38:37,079
once the Jonathan Cominga situation is settled. The Witch as

2190
01:38:37,159 --> 01:38:41,039
of September the twenty sixth at twelve to thirty five

2191
01:38:41,159 --> 01:38:44,399
Pacific time three thirty five Eastern time. It has not

2192
01:38:44,600 --> 01:38:48,000
been so. They Warriors are going to sign Al Horford

2193
01:38:48,039 --> 01:38:50,039
to a two year, eleven point seven million dollar deal.

2194
01:38:50,279 --> 01:38:52,359
That'll be the mini mL E. It will presumably have

2195
01:38:52,439 --> 01:38:55,000
a player option. They will resign Gary Payton the second,

2196
01:38:55,039 --> 01:38:57,279
to a one year minimum deal. They will sign Seth

2197
01:38:57,359 --> 01:38:59,560
Curry to a one year minimum deal. They will sign

2198
01:38:59,720 --> 01:39:02,800
d Melton to a one year minimum deal. And they

2199
01:39:02,840 --> 01:39:05,439
were part they did something in actuality Grant. They were

2200
01:39:05,479 --> 01:39:09,680
part of the seven team Kevin Durant trade Kevin Durant, Yeah,

2201
01:39:10,399 --> 01:39:14,800
they tried to. At one point they traded number forty one,

2202
01:39:15,439 --> 01:39:17,760
which was Kobe Brea, for number fifty two that was

2203
01:39:17,800 --> 01:39:21,399
Alex Touwey and number fifty nine which was Jami Mayshack.

2204
01:39:21,439 --> 01:39:23,960
And then they traded Mayshack the rights to Justinian Jessup

2205
01:39:24,359 --> 01:39:27,239
and a twenty thirty two second top fifty protected for

2206
01:39:27,399 --> 01:39:29,760
Real Richard, who was the number fifty six pick. But

2207
01:39:29,880 --> 01:39:33,199
the big thing here is look before getting to Kaminga,

2208
01:39:33,239 --> 01:39:37,720
I think all the other air quotes moves are good.

2209
01:39:37,840 --> 01:39:39,960
A Horford great fit for the Warriors. All those other

2210
01:39:40,000 --> 01:39:42,359
guys on the minimum. If Danthony Melton is healthy, how

2211
01:39:42,399 --> 01:39:45,840
many times we said that excellent? Everything just just comes

2212
01:39:45,920 --> 01:39:49,920
back to the Jonathan Kaminga of it all. Where where

2213
01:39:50,039 --> 01:39:51,159
are you at here?

2214
01:39:52,279 --> 01:39:54,159
Speaker 2: So the wild thing? Yes, it does.

2215
01:39:54,239 --> 01:39:57,079
Speaker 3: Everything does hinge on him, like technically in a very

2216
01:39:57,159 --> 01:39:59,960
real way, but also like I don't think he's gonna

2217
01:40:00,800 --> 01:40:04,239
like matter that much for them this season. What matters,

2218
01:40:04,319 --> 01:40:07,000
I guess is like, do you get him back on

2219
01:40:07,199 --> 01:40:11,560
a number that is on a contract that's tradable, because

2220
01:40:11,560 --> 01:40:14,800
that's like why, I mean, if you weren't sure that

2221
01:40:14,920 --> 01:40:18,199
the relationship was done, Like the way this has gone

2222
01:40:18,239 --> 01:40:21,199
in restricted free agency is kind of like your final confirmation,

2223
01:40:21,359 --> 01:40:24,520
like there's really no It's not that there's no coming

2224
01:40:24,600 --> 01:40:27,800
back from this, but it's like this this illustrates the

2225
01:40:27,880 --> 01:40:30,239
gap between how the Warriors view him and how he

2226
01:40:30,399 --> 01:40:35,159
views himself. So like it just what matters, I guess

2227
01:40:37,239 --> 01:40:40,840
from in the Coaminga situation is how many years, how

2228
01:40:40,880 --> 01:40:43,760
many dollars? What are we talking about between team option,

2229
01:40:43,920 --> 01:40:46,439
player option, and I guess the nuclear option, which is

2230
01:40:46,520 --> 01:40:50,800
he takes a qualifying offer. It's hard for me to

2231
01:40:52,079 --> 01:40:56,439
to see there's not a ton of like daylight between like, well,

2232
01:40:56,520 --> 01:40:58,359
if they get him for this deal, because we know

2233
01:40:58,640 --> 01:41:00,520
what all the offers have been too. Which is also

2234
01:41:00,600 --> 01:41:02,199
crazy is how public all this has been.

2235
01:41:02,800 --> 01:41:06,880
Speaker 1: Like, I guess the agent's doing podcasts agency, which, by

2236
01:41:06,960 --> 01:41:09,399
the way, great way to signal you've got the negotiating

2237
01:41:09,479 --> 01:41:12,319
upperhand is to go on a podcast and say, like,

2238
01:41:12,720 --> 01:41:15,680
what you're willing to what you're threatening to do does

2239
01:41:15,800 --> 01:41:18,560
not speak to a huge amount of leverage. Over here

2240
01:41:18,560 --> 01:41:20,720
at Hardwood Knox, we prefer when our agents do not

2241
01:41:20,920 --> 01:41:23,520
do public appearances in podcasts, which is why you haven't heard.

2242
01:41:23,479 --> 01:41:27,199
Speaker 2: Our agents on any episodes. Just yes, once, just once

2243
01:41:27,600 --> 01:41:28,359
once we get them.

2244
01:41:28,960 --> 01:41:33,439
Speaker 3: Uh no, So like there's not a ton to talk

2245
01:41:33,439 --> 01:41:35,920
about because we don't know what the particulars are. I guess,

2246
01:41:36,520 --> 01:41:39,560
like do you do you think there's a huge gap

2247
01:41:39,600 --> 01:41:43,520
between Like let's say it's a obviously qualifying offer would

2248
01:41:43,520 --> 01:41:45,000
be a very bad grade for the Warriors, that's a

2249
01:41:45,039 --> 01:41:48,159
bad result, but of the other options, like if it's

2250
01:41:48,800 --> 01:41:51,079
the three minus one with a team options in the middle,

2251
01:41:52,199 --> 01:41:52,960
I actually think.

2252
01:41:53,039 --> 01:41:56,279
Speaker 1: I'm surprised he didn't just sign that three for seventy

2253
01:41:56,319 --> 01:41:58,159
five with a team. I know that you're that under

2254
01:41:58,239 --> 01:42:01,359
team control, but you're not gonna be there, and if

2255
01:42:01,399 --> 01:42:04,239
you are, hasn't something amazing happened?

2256
01:42:05,720 --> 01:42:09,079
Speaker 2: Right? Well? I think it's just the the option thing.

2257
01:42:09,760 --> 01:42:12,800
First of all. The Warriors just like wielding these team

2258
01:42:12,880 --> 01:42:15,680
options like weapons is kind of a boss movement.

2259
01:42:15,760 --> 01:42:18,319
Speaker 3: I do respect it a little bit, like they're really

2260
01:42:18,720 --> 01:42:23,000
really just enjoying the power of restricted free agency. I think,

2261
01:42:23,039 --> 01:42:26,199
which if you're a smart team, you probably should. The

2262
01:42:26,279 --> 01:42:29,079
Sixers are another story. The Quentin Grimes offer is.

2263
01:42:29,359 --> 01:42:33,640
Speaker 2: Laughable, but like, what could this just resolve?

2264
01:42:33,720 --> 01:42:36,119
Speaker 3: With like a two plus one like and coming against

2265
01:42:36,119 --> 01:42:37,920
his player option, the Warriors get him in a number

2266
01:42:37,920 --> 01:42:40,119
that they can trade him at, Like, I don't know,

2267
01:42:40,239 --> 01:42:42,359
I don't I don't know where this is gonna land.

2268
01:42:43,399 --> 01:42:46,119
Speaker 1: I think if he's getting like to me, just based

2269
01:42:46,159 --> 01:42:47,640
off what he's shown as a player, and I know

2270
01:42:47,720 --> 01:42:50,279
that the fit in Golden State has been imperfect from

2271
01:42:50,319 --> 01:42:53,199
a sense of they've never really given him enough runway

2272
01:42:53,359 --> 01:42:56,319
and we've just seen moments and some protracted pockets of

2273
01:42:56,840 --> 01:43:00,159
excellent offensive play from him. If you're giving him over

2274
01:43:00,279 --> 01:43:03,000
like twenty two million dollars a year, I don't also

2275
01:43:03,159 --> 01:43:05,560
want him having the player option to.

2276
01:43:05,600 --> 01:43:08,239
Speaker 3: Wield over me, that's very much their stance, and maybe

2277
01:43:08,319 --> 01:43:11,039
that like, why can't this just end with two years

2278
01:43:11,119 --> 01:43:14,640
forty five? You waive your implicit no trade like or something,

2279
01:43:14,640 --> 01:43:16,640
you know, something like that in that though the second

2280
01:43:17,079 --> 01:43:18,960
year is a player option or something I don't know, like.

2281
01:43:19,239 --> 01:43:22,640
Speaker 1: The whole implicit note trade with him, he shouldn't like

2282
01:43:22,800 --> 01:43:25,000
if he really wants out of Golden State. The next

2283
01:43:25,079 --> 01:43:27,439
team Mets trading for you is doing so if you

2284
01:43:27,520 --> 01:43:29,359
have a player option because they want to keep you,

2285
01:43:29,880 --> 01:43:32,319
So why'd like I like you or and then potentially

2286
01:43:32,359 --> 01:43:34,640
pay you? So I don't view that as just like

2287
01:43:34,720 --> 01:43:36,720
maybe they're playing it up because you want to make

2288
01:43:36,760 --> 01:43:40,000
it look like you're conceding something in these negotiations. But ye,

2289
01:43:40,159 --> 01:43:42,439
what I want to ask you is, so we're both

2290
01:43:42,439 --> 01:43:44,520
in agreement. It's the three minus one feels like the

2291
01:43:44,880 --> 01:43:46,319
not just the middle ground. But that's how this is

2292
01:43:46,359 --> 01:43:48,399
gonna end up, right? Is probably the three minus one.

2293
01:43:48,560 --> 01:43:51,319
Speaker 2: It seems fair to me that that's what I'd say.

2294
01:43:51,960 --> 01:43:54,319
Speaker 1: What would be more surprising to you that he signs

2295
01:43:54,359 --> 01:43:56,720
his qualifying offer or that he ends up taking like

2296
01:43:57,279 --> 01:43:59,600
the two year, forty million dollar deal with the team

2297
01:43:59,640 --> 01:44:01,520
option waves implicit no trade.

2298
01:44:02,359 --> 01:44:06,199
Speaker 3: I think I think the qualifying offer would still surprise

2299
01:44:06,279 --> 01:44:11,039
me most, okay, just because like, look, he's clearly confident

2300
01:44:11,079 --> 01:44:13,359
and his representation is confident at least art projecting a

2301
01:44:13,399 --> 01:44:15,199
lot of confidence and have for a long time, and

2302
01:44:15,319 --> 01:44:17,520
like the kind of player they think he can like

2303
01:44:17,640 --> 01:44:19,920
faking it, that's a lot of money to leave on

2304
01:44:20,000 --> 01:44:22,720
the table, right, Like, especially since if you take that

2305
01:44:22,880 --> 01:44:28,159
qualifying offer, the Warriors are gonna be like there, I

2306
01:44:28,199 --> 01:44:29,800
don't I don't know, They're not going to be vindictive

2307
01:44:29,840 --> 01:44:32,680
about it, but it's like, why are we incentivized to

2308
01:44:32,880 --> 01:44:36,760
feature you and I? From his end, Like, I don't

2309
01:44:36,800 --> 01:44:37,319
know how.

2310
01:44:37,239 --> 01:44:39,520
Speaker 2: Motivated is he gonna be? So it's just like nobody

2311
01:44:39,640 --> 01:44:41,479
wins in that hypothetical.

2312
01:44:41,640 --> 01:44:43,159
Speaker 1: And you know what player, I always go back to

2313
01:44:43,239 --> 01:44:45,319
thinking different player at different time, But like, do you

2314
01:44:45,319 --> 01:44:47,600
remember when Nerlin's Noel turned down what was it like

2315
01:44:47,720 --> 01:44:49,000
four seventy or something?

2316
01:44:49,039 --> 01:44:50,479
Speaker 2: Oh yeah and sign for the minimum?

2317
01:44:51,039 --> 01:44:53,960
Speaker 1: Yeah and so, but and I just that would be

2318
01:44:54,039 --> 01:44:55,800
if I'm a player or like, that would just be

2319
01:44:55,920 --> 01:44:57,640
tattooed into my memor which is probably why it's good

2320
01:44:57,640 --> 01:44:58,960
that I'm not an agent, because I just like, yeah,

2321
01:44:59,000 --> 01:44:59,960
you fucking sign.

2322
01:44:59,760 --> 01:45:03,279
Speaker 3: That well, I mean like he was a high enough

2323
01:45:03,359 --> 01:45:06,680
pick that he's made, like I mean probably life changing money.

2324
01:45:06,720 --> 01:45:09,600
It's not like generational wealth. But if you sign, if

2325
01:45:09,640 --> 01:45:12,800
you get like forty million bucks, then you're talking right,

2326
01:45:12,880 --> 01:45:14,800
and you're still you're gonna hit free agency again when

2327
01:45:14,800 --> 01:45:16,840
you're twenty four to twenty five.

2328
01:45:17,199 --> 01:45:20,720
Speaker 2: Like that seems like a good result. Now.

2329
01:45:21,439 --> 01:45:25,159
Speaker 1: The reporting from Sam Amock of the Athletic ramped up

2330
01:45:25,159 --> 01:45:27,039
a little bit with the Kings to where they re

2331
01:45:27,159 --> 01:45:31,199
engaged with the Warriors that package. Other teams need to

2332
01:45:31,199 --> 01:45:33,239
be involved. You're probably getting rid of Buddy Healed or

2333
01:45:33,279 --> 01:45:35,960
Moses Moody is part of it. The Malik Monk, Devin

2334
01:45:36,039 --> 01:45:39,039
Carter and a distant first round pick doesn't do anything

2335
01:45:39,079 --> 01:45:39,319
for you.

2336
01:45:40,479 --> 01:45:44,640
Speaker 2: Just where who do you think? Let amic know about that?

2337
01:45:45,039 --> 01:45:45,159
Speaker 1: Right?

2338
01:45:45,279 --> 01:45:48,079
Speaker 3: Like it's clearly coming from Kminga's side because you need

2339
01:45:48,319 --> 01:45:51,039
something out there, and maybe.

2340
01:45:50,880 --> 01:45:51,600
Speaker 2: Some of those were real.

2341
01:45:51,680 --> 01:45:53,439
Speaker 3: I'm sure is reporting is legit, but it's just like,

2342
01:45:53,600 --> 01:45:57,279
come on, like, in what world is Malik Monk a

2343
01:45:57,279 --> 01:46:00,520
big enough upgrade over Jonathan Kaminga to just like getting

2344
01:46:00,600 --> 01:46:01,640
rid of Healed or Moody.

2345
01:46:01,760 --> 01:46:04,680
Speaker 1: We not You would have to think like can we

2346
01:46:04,760 --> 01:46:06,479
get him to a third team for something. I had

2347
01:46:06,520 --> 01:46:08,680
thought if they were willing to throw in Keon Ellis

2348
01:46:09,399 --> 01:46:12,279
and then you're getting Devin Carter and a first round

2349
01:46:12,319 --> 01:46:14,720
pick like that's and I know there was there was

2350
01:46:14,800 --> 01:46:17,159
reporting that the protections the Warriors want like an unprotected

2351
01:46:17,199 --> 01:46:20,479
pick in twenty thirty. If it is that, and i'm

2352
01:46:20,520 --> 01:46:22,560
the Warriors, I mean you have an unprotected King's pick

2353
01:46:22,680 --> 01:46:24,039
like however many years in the.

2354
01:46:24,279 --> 01:46:26,640
Speaker 3: I don't know, it doesn't matter how far off it is.

2355
01:46:26,720 --> 01:46:29,960
I think that you definitely think pretty hard about that one.

2356
01:46:30,800 --> 01:46:32,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we we can't create this.

2357
01:46:33,119 --> 01:46:35,760
Speaker 2: We can't. It's it's it's by definition. And they have

2358
01:46:35,880 --> 01:46:38,079
done nothing. The Warriors have done nothing unless you count

2359
01:46:38,119 --> 01:46:40,560
Will Richard the number fifty six pick as they kept.

2360
01:46:40,640 --> 01:46:42,920
Speaker 1: Honestly, that's why he's the photos. They did keep Quinton

2361
01:46:43,000 --> 01:46:47,159
Post so they plus Yeah, yeah, but we just have

2362
01:46:47,279 --> 01:46:48,520
to know it took you a while when we were

2363
01:46:48,560 --> 01:46:50,279
talking about unicorns in the other way.

2364
01:46:51,640 --> 01:46:54,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, it's good in view him as what's more

2365
01:46:54,600 --> 01:46:58,159
unique than a unicorn is like a pegans centaur pegas

2366
01:46:58,840 --> 01:46:59,600
an alicorn.

2367
01:47:01,239 --> 01:47:03,960
Speaker 1: Our next team moving right along to Los Angeles Clippers,

2368
01:47:04,000 --> 01:47:05,720
And just to make it clear, we are. We do

2369
01:47:05,880 --> 01:47:08,239
not have aspirations to grade anything that has to do

2370
01:47:08,319 --> 01:47:11,199
with aspiration, so we will this is this is not

2371
01:47:11,359 --> 01:47:13,319
part of it. So they did a bunch of stuff.

2372
01:47:13,359 --> 01:47:17,760
They drafted Yannis Conan Niederhauser at number thirty. They traded

2373
01:47:17,960 --> 01:47:21,520
number fifty one Mohammed Dijajara and number sixty Luke Mitrovich

2374
01:47:21,600 --> 01:47:23,840
to the Knicks for number fifty, which was Kobe Sanders,

2375
01:47:23,880 --> 01:47:26,880
who then signed a two way. They resigned James Harden

2376
01:47:26,880 --> 01:47:28,439
to a two year, eighty one and a half million

2377
01:47:28,479 --> 01:47:31,520
dollar deal. The second season is a player option if

2378
01:47:31,560 --> 01:47:34,039
he opts it, though only thirteen point three million dollars

2379
01:47:34,079 --> 01:47:36,800
of his salary is guaranteed. They resigned Nicholas Putum to

2380
01:47:36,840 --> 01:47:39,560
a two year eleven point five million dollar deal that

2381
01:47:39,680 --> 01:47:41,840
has a player option in year two. They signed Brook

2382
01:47:41,880 --> 01:47:44,520
Lopez to a two year seventeen point nine million dollar

2383
01:47:44,640 --> 01:47:47,359
deal that is a team option on it in the

2384
01:47:47,399 --> 01:47:49,520
final season, and most of it was from the non

2385
01:47:49,600 --> 01:47:52,520
tax player mid level exception. In a three team deal

2386
01:47:52,600 --> 01:47:55,960
with Miami and Utah. They traded Norman Powell a twenty

2387
01:47:56,199 --> 01:47:59,399
twenty second, twenty seven second and two point five million

2388
01:47:59,439 --> 01:48:02,399
dollars in k for John Collins. They then use the

2389
01:48:02,520 --> 01:48:04,640
rest of their non tax payer mid level exception to

2390
01:48:04,680 --> 01:48:07,640
give Bradley Bealer a two year, eleven million dollar contract,

2391
01:48:08,479 --> 01:48:11,159
the latter of which is a player option, and they

2392
01:48:11,239 --> 01:48:14,680
signed Chris Paul at the minimum for one year grant.

2393
01:48:14,840 --> 01:48:16,520
What were the Clippers trying to do here?

2394
01:48:17,319 --> 01:48:20,800
Speaker 3: I mean sign a lot, acquire a lot of good

2395
01:48:20,840 --> 01:48:23,319
and helpful veterans and deepen the front you know, like

2396
01:48:23,359 --> 01:48:25,399
they're obviously on a win now timeline because you're built

2397
01:48:25,439 --> 01:48:30,279
your own James Harden and Kawhi Leonard. This team is

2398
01:48:30,479 --> 01:48:34,119
markedly better right on paper, like you've got a factor

2399
01:48:34,159 --> 01:48:36,119
in the age concerns and the health concerns.

2400
01:48:36,920 --> 01:48:39,000
Speaker 2: But a lot of these deals are like they seem

2401
01:48:39,079 --> 01:48:39,920
too good to be true.

2402
01:48:39,960 --> 01:48:41,760
Speaker 3: It just kind of makes you wonder, like are there

2403
01:48:41,960 --> 01:48:44,439
like what is what's the carbon credit situation on the

2404
01:48:44,520 --> 01:48:49,319
Brook Lopez deal? But like I guess what I'm struggling

2405
01:48:49,319 --> 01:48:51,680
with is like why isn't this Why aren't we giving

2406
01:48:51,720 --> 01:48:54,439
this the highest grade possible because neither of us did spoiler,

2407
01:48:54,520 --> 01:48:57,279
We won't say what happened here, but like, can't you

2408
01:48:57,359 --> 01:48:59,239
look at the front court depth? Like John Collins is

2409
01:48:59,279 --> 01:49:00,560
the first real power or forward.

2410
01:49:00,359 --> 01:49:01,079
Speaker 2: They've had in forever.

2411
01:49:01,600 --> 01:49:05,439
Speaker 3: Norm Powell maybe duplicative trading about an absolute apex of

2412
01:49:05,479 --> 01:49:08,840
his value going forward, So positionally that deal makes sense

2413
01:49:08,880 --> 01:49:11,960
to me. Brook Lopez is a backup center, Like that's

2414
01:49:12,760 --> 01:49:16,359
even you know for fifteen twenty minutes, Max, that's great.

2415
01:49:17,239 --> 01:49:20,560
Bradley Beal like has really the blooms off the rose there,

2416
01:49:20,600 --> 01:49:24,720
but like for the portion of the non tax MIDlet like,

2417
01:49:25,239 --> 01:49:28,079
that's a he's a good player still so and he's

2418
01:49:28,119 --> 01:49:30,760
being paid like a not quite into the bench, you

2419
01:49:30,760 --> 01:49:32,279
know what I mean. Like there's a ton of just

2420
01:49:32,399 --> 01:49:35,439
like go down, bullet pointed. All these makes sense and

2421
01:49:35,520 --> 01:49:37,640
are good and make the team better in the short term,

2422
01:49:37,640 --> 01:49:39,880
which is like all the Clippers care about. Can you

2423
01:49:40,039 --> 01:49:42,880
point me to why neither of us went into the

2424
01:49:42,920 --> 01:49:43,600
A range here?

2425
01:49:44,760 --> 01:49:47,800
Speaker 1: So I think for me, I look at it and

2426
01:49:47,880 --> 01:49:51,359
I do wonder did they mean? When you're looking at

2427
01:49:51,479 --> 01:49:54,279
what their core lineups will be, you are putting a

2428
01:49:54,359 --> 01:49:57,760
lot defensively on the shoulders of of each Zu Box

2429
01:49:58,000 --> 01:50:01,239
and Kawhi Leonard and now necessarily if not, but like

2430
01:50:01,399 --> 01:50:04,119
Norman Powell instead of John Collins, John Collins probably helps

2431
01:50:04,119 --> 01:50:06,720
you out defensively just by virtue of his defensive rebounding there.

2432
01:50:07,039 --> 01:50:09,880
And what you've now done is you've given your team

2433
01:50:10,399 --> 01:50:13,439
another ball handler and Bradley Beal while still preserving like

2434
01:50:13,479 --> 01:50:15,640
your floor spacing is probably just better because John Collins

2435
01:50:15,680 --> 01:50:18,199
and Bradley Beal versus Norman Powell, like Norman Powell shot

2436
01:50:18,239 --> 01:50:19,720
the hell out of ball for most of last year.

2437
01:50:20,000 --> 01:50:22,319
But to get spacing from two separate players, one of

2438
01:50:22,359 --> 01:50:25,199
whom is more of a natural from scratch shot creator,

2439
01:50:25,319 --> 01:50:28,000
I think is a big deal. There's just more risk.

2440
01:50:28,159 --> 01:50:30,600
I think that there their floor feels like it's high.

2441
01:50:30,720 --> 01:50:33,600
But we're just gonna believe that Bradley Beal is a

2442
01:50:33,640 --> 01:50:35,800
better fit on this Clippers team than he was for

2443
01:50:35,920 --> 01:50:38,680
the Suns because why we're banking on Kawhi Leonard missing

2444
01:50:39,159 --> 01:50:41,720
time or you just think that he'll defer more, or

2445
01:50:41,760 --> 01:50:44,239
you think that Khi is going to be more deferential.

2446
01:50:44,640 --> 01:50:46,640
This team is deep. I think that they can get

2447
01:50:46,680 --> 01:50:48,880
to a lot of the thing that sways it for

2448
01:50:49,000 --> 01:50:50,880
me into where you could probably say, like maybe they

2449
01:50:50,960 --> 01:50:53,720
do deserve an a you get into like their bench,

2450
01:50:54,359 --> 01:50:57,600
Brook Lopez, Chris Dunn, Derek Jones Junior, They could still

2451
01:50:57,680 --> 01:51:01,239
get to a lot of those defensive lineups. I just

2452
01:51:01,800 --> 01:51:03,720
it's not even just the defense, But how is this

2453
01:51:03,760 --> 01:51:06,399
team getting out in transition anymore? Not with any of

2454
01:51:06,479 --> 01:51:09,840
its base units, certainly like Bradley Beal, Kawhi Leonard, and

2455
01:51:11,239 --> 01:51:13,760
James Harden like I just don't like if he's a

2456
01:51:13,840 --> 01:51:16,319
zoobos John Brook Lopez is older, like he's gonna be

2457
01:51:16,319 --> 01:51:18,600
plotting up and down the floor. So I'm wondering if

2458
01:51:18,640 --> 01:51:21,079
they can only really operate at one speed. And again

2459
01:51:21,760 --> 01:51:23,760
this isn't like, oh well, they would have been able

2460
01:51:23,760 --> 01:51:25,640
to be so much better by just keeping Norman Powell

2461
01:51:25,760 --> 01:51:26,680
then doing nothing else.

2462
01:51:27,199 --> 01:51:27,800
Speaker 2: Not my point.

2463
01:51:27,920 --> 01:51:30,399
Speaker 1: I just wonder if they gave up some of their

2464
01:51:30,439 --> 01:51:34,039
functional versatility a little too much. And I mean that

2465
01:51:34,119 --> 01:51:36,319
in a sense of yes, they're definitely more versatile on

2466
01:51:36,520 --> 01:51:39,640
offense overall, but elements of what made the team special

2467
01:51:40,119 --> 01:51:43,399
just the exhaustive defense from so many different areas and

2468
01:51:43,520 --> 01:51:47,239
the ability to really like get out in transition at points,

2469
01:51:48,479 --> 01:51:50,680
because again we did see the transition frequency go up

2470
01:51:50,680 --> 01:51:52,359
and down a lot. That could be when Kawhi Leonard

2471
01:51:52,479 --> 01:51:54,640
is gonna come back, like when he came back. But

2472
01:51:54,720 --> 01:51:56,439
I'm just wondering if this is a team that's just

2473
01:51:56,479 --> 01:51:59,359
a little too old, gonna rely too much on operating

2474
01:51:59,479 --> 01:52:03,520
with some not so innovative base sets in the half court.

2475
01:52:03,840 --> 01:52:07,119
So I have some questions there, But from a talent perspective,

2476
01:52:07,840 --> 01:52:10,199
like they have upgraded the roster considerably.

2477
01:52:10,520 --> 01:52:14,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, and again we're like picking knits to justify not

2478
01:52:14,520 --> 01:52:16,720
giving this an a Like we both are very high

2479
01:52:16,760 --> 01:52:17,520
on this offseason.

2480
01:52:17,600 --> 01:52:21,560
Speaker 2: I lean a little bit. You mentioned it B plus

2481
01:52:21,640 --> 01:52:22,279
for me, be for you.

2482
01:52:23,600 --> 01:52:27,640
Speaker 3: For me, It's like I get weird like vibes of

2483
01:52:27,840 --> 01:52:30,560
like I don't know remember when like the Rockets end

2484
01:52:30,680 --> 01:52:33,359
up with like Scottie Pippen and Charles Barkley, and like

2485
01:52:33,479 --> 01:52:35,720
it was towards the end, and it's just like there's

2486
01:52:35,760 --> 01:52:39,000
a lot you're already like towards the end clearly, like

2487
01:52:39,079 --> 01:52:41,239
with Harden and Kawhi, even though Harden had a very

2488
01:52:41,239 --> 01:52:44,239
good year for forgiven his age and mileage and stuff

2489
01:52:44,279 --> 01:52:47,640
last year, you're just kind of doubling down with some

2490
01:52:47,720 --> 01:52:50,399
of these older guys that have had like you know, Beal,

2491
01:52:50,680 --> 01:52:54,039
Like who knows what Beal's gonna be going. So it's

2492
01:52:54,119 --> 01:52:56,800
just like the names are awesome, like there's no doubt

2493
01:52:56,800 --> 01:52:58,920
about it. It's just like I'm not sure that it's

2494
01:52:59,000 --> 01:53:03,000
the best move for a team that's already like defined

2495
01:53:03,319 --> 01:53:06,720
by fragility of its best players to like have a

2496
01:53:06,800 --> 01:53:10,399
couple more kind of piled onto that. So, like, I

2497
01:53:10,439 --> 01:53:13,159
actually think the floor is very low because you could

2498
01:53:13,239 --> 01:53:15,399
just you could have a raft of injuries here, like

2499
01:53:15,720 --> 01:53:18,279
just across the board. I think that's you know, that's yeah,

2500
01:53:18,399 --> 01:53:20,439
injuries could happen to any team, but like this one,

2501
01:53:20,600 --> 01:53:23,159
Like you know, Leonard's not playing half the season, you

2502
01:53:23,159 --> 01:53:27,000
shouldn't expect Harden to play more than two thirds of

2503
01:53:27,079 --> 01:53:29,960
it probably, And then like Lopez is in his late thirties,

2504
01:53:30,039 --> 01:53:30,920
you just got on the list.

2505
01:53:31,359 --> 01:53:33,239
Speaker 1: I think you talk me into a B plus though,

2506
01:53:33,279 --> 01:53:35,159
because I'm just sort of looking at it though, And

2507
01:53:35,279 --> 01:53:37,720
part of maybe where your concern lies with how short

2508
01:53:37,840 --> 01:53:40,600
term they are. There's just where is the risk in

2509
01:53:40,680 --> 01:53:43,239
anything they did other than the thing is like.

2510
01:53:43,439 --> 01:53:46,039
Speaker 3: The counter is, like, so what did you want him

2511
01:53:46,079 --> 01:53:48,560
to go find some like twenty four year olds to

2512
01:53:49,000 --> 01:53:51,399
be eat innings or whatever? Like that's not where this

2513
01:53:51,479 --> 01:53:53,279
team is. This is this is kind of an all

2514
01:53:53,399 --> 01:53:56,720
or nothing situation, right, like either the old guys stay

2515
01:53:56,760 --> 01:53:59,239
healthy and perform for another year and you're really really good,

2516
01:53:59,359 --> 01:54:02,840
or they don't, and so like they're too they're too

2517
01:54:02,960 --> 01:54:05,760
far in, too like pivot to some other crazy plan.

2518
01:54:05,920 --> 01:54:08,239
Speaker 2: So I'm not gonna kill him for Yeah, you.

2519
01:54:08,279 --> 01:54:10,279
Speaker 1: Talked me into a B plus and it was honestly,

2520
01:54:10,399 --> 01:54:12,680
if you want it, I think you have. You've mentioned

2521
01:54:12,720 --> 01:54:16,479
this before. There isn't a argument here, it's just I

2522
01:54:16,600 --> 01:54:19,600
don't I'm still just wondering if they compromise some of

2523
01:54:19,640 --> 01:54:22,560
what made them special, like overcompensated for some of their flaws.

2524
01:54:22,600 --> 01:54:25,439
But yeah, and honestly, what's the move that you're most

2525
01:54:25,560 --> 01:54:28,920
uncomfortable with this offseason? Because I think it's Bradley Beal

2526
01:54:29,000 --> 01:54:32,800
for me to where the money doesn't matter, but because

2527
01:54:32,840 --> 01:54:35,800
it cost you Norman Powell, and because I just don't

2528
01:54:35,880 --> 01:54:39,399
know that he's gonna be as easy or valuable of

2529
01:54:39,439 --> 01:54:42,239
a fit as so many are penciling in. That's where

2530
01:54:42,279 --> 01:54:44,119
it feels like a lot of the risk lies again,

2531
01:54:44,279 --> 01:54:46,560
even though the contract is just whatever.

2532
01:54:46,720 --> 01:54:50,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's that, or it's it's Collins, because I think

2533
01:54:50,039 --> 01:54:52,119
you know, Powell had a very good year last year,

2534
01:54:52,319 --> 01:54:54,680
and then Collins hasn't done anything on a good team

2535
01:54:55,000 --> 01:54:57,000
for a long time, So we don't you don't like yes,

2536
01:54:57,079 --> 01:54:59,000
positionally he makes sense, but like, I don't know what's

2537
01:54:59,000 --> 01:55:00,439
he gonna look like in games that count.

2538
01:55:00,760 --> 01:55:02,520
Speaker 2: Hard to say. It's been been several years.

2539
01:55:02,880 --> 01:55:05,520
Speaker 1: We are on too. I believe this is this is

2540
01:55:05,600 --> 01:55:06,000
my team.

2541
01:55:06,079 --> 01:55:07,840
Speaker 2: Right, No, I'll take it. You had the you just

2542
01:55:07,880 --> 01:55:08,840
did the Clippers. I don't know.

2543
01:55:08,880 --> 01:55:11,920
Speaker 3: You know, he has to do both LA teams, all right.

2544
01:55:11,960 --> 01:55:13,840
So they signed Rob Point get to a contract extension.

2545
01:55:13,880 --> 01:55:15,880
JJ Reddick kind of late breaking news, also got a

2546
01:55:15,920 --> 01:55:18,000
contract extension. And if that seems weird to you, it's

2547
01:55:18,039 --> 01:55:20,000
because he's only been there for a year and had

2548
01:55:20,000 --> 01:55:24,560
already signed us. Because it is weird unusual. Uh. They

2549
01:55:24,640 --> 01:55:26,880
are very much committed to him, not mad at it.

2550
01:55:26,880 --> 01:55:28,319
I think he did a pretty good job last year.

2551
01:55:28,720 --> 01:55:30,600
Luka Doncic got a three year, one hundred and sixty

2552
01:55:30,640 --> 01:55:32,880
one point eight million dollar max extension that starts in

2553
01:55:32,960 --> 01:55:35,279
twenty six, twenty seven. There's a player option on twenty eight,

2554
01:55:35,319 --> 01:55:38,159
twenty nine. He will be eligible to sign for five

2555
01:55:38,279 --> 01:55:41,199
years and three hundred and eighty four million dollars if

2556
01:55:41,239 --> 01:55:45,800
he opts out, which he will, and he will. The

2557
01:55:45,880 --> 01:55:48,359
Lakers also traded number fifty five, Lachlan old Break and

2558
01:55:48,399 --> 01:55:50,960
cash to the Bulls for number forty five. Our guy Rock,

2559
01:55:51,319 --> 01:55:54,640
He's gonna be our guy forever. Roko Zakarski. Zakarski then

2560
01:55:54,680 --> 01:55:58,239
traded again uh with three million in cash for number

2561
01:55:58,279 --> 01:56:01,319
thirty six. That's a due with Thierro Duero signed a

2562
01:56:01,399 --> 01:56:03,800
three year, five point nine million dollar deal, twenty seven

2563
01:56:03,800 --> 01:56:06,560
to twenty eight team option. Jake Laavia Dan Favalley's favorite

2564
01:56:06,560 --> 01:56:09,239
basketball player on Planet Earth. Two years, twelve million. That's

2565
01:56:09,319 --> 01:56:11,640
the non tax mid level. It's a flat six million year.

2566
01:56:12,159 --> 01:56:15,279
DeAndre Ayden, following his buyout in Portland, got a two year,

2567
01:56:15,359 --> 01:56:18,039
sixteen point two million dollar deal. Got a player option

2568
01:56:18,119 --> 01:56:20,479
on the second year of that. Marcus Smart also a

2569
01:56:20,560 --> 01:56:22,800
buyout guy, two years, ten and a half million. That's

2570
01:56:22,840 --> 01:56:26,079
the bi annual exception. He got a player option. Surprisingly,

2571
01:56:26,279 --> 01:56:28,720
Jackson Hayes re signed to a one year minimum deal,

2572
01:56:29,079 --> 01:56:34,439
so Dan also maybe the quiet part loud Lebron James

2573
01:56:34,600 --> 01:56:38,000
did not sign anything, picked up his player option, couldn't

2574
01:56:38,039 --> 01:56:40,600
get another one plus one, so he will be a

2575
01:56:40,640 --> 01:56:43,640
free agent following this season. I think that covers it.

2576
01:56:43,720 --> 01:56:45,720
How are we feeling about the Lakers? This is this

2577
01:56:45,840 --> 01:56:47,760
isn't if we've said this for like every West team

2578
01:56:48,279 --> 01:56:52,880
kind of complicated, kind of interesting, hard to zero in here, right.

2579
01:56:52,800 --> 01:56:54,680
Speaker 1: And you know what, if I'm reading too much into

2580
01:56:54,720 --> 01:56:57,760
the JJ Redick extension by thinking if they did that,

2581
01:56:58,279 --> 01:57:02,279
they're really playing longer game here, because why else would

2582
01:57:02,279 --> 01:57:05,239
you extend him after one year? Because what is the

2583
01:57:05,319 --> 01:57:07,960
other logical reason for doing that other thand to kind

2584
01:57:08,000 --> 01:57:10,880
of lock him down as you go through what might

2585
01:57:10,960 --> 01:57:15,680
be a period of turnover around Luka doncic Well.

2586
01:57:16,159 --> 01:57:16,840
Speaker 2: You said the name.

2587
01:57:16,960 --> 01:57:20,119
Speaker 3: I think it's very much related to Luca, which is

2588
01:57:20,159 --> 01:57:22,800
to say that, like it feels like the Lakers want

2589
01:57:22,840 --> 01:57:26,239
to project like this is the JJ is our guy,

2590
01:57:26,560 --> 01:57:28,000
Like this is it like this is going to be

2591
01:57:28,039 --> 01:57:31,399
as like a Popovich situation where no one's ever even

2592
01:57:31,399 --> 01:57:34,720
going to think about him going anywhere, and so like

2593
01:57:35,079 --> 01:57:37,119
that that kind of felt that way to me, which

2594
01:57:37,119 --> 01:57:38,560
I think you tied to Luca, which is how they

2595
01:57:38,880 --> 01:57:42,039
want him to be viewed as a player. But yeah,

2596
01:57:42,079 --> 01:57:46,079
it's still is weird. That's that's like, why why are

2597
01:57:46,119 --> 01:57:48,520
we early extending coaches? I don't understand it.

2598
01:57:49,079 --> 01:57:52,560
Speaker 1: So I think let's start with the actual before getting

2599
01:57:52,560 --> 01:57:55,520
into the lebron of it all. We've posed this question before.

2600
01:57:55,800 --> 01:57:58,479
Is that to me? I read it as they chose

2601
01:57:59,039 --> 01:58:03,520
getting two of Jake Laavia, DeAndre Ayton and Marcus Smart

2602
01:58:04,199 --> 01:58:06,680
over getting or getting all three of those guys over

2603
01:58:06,760 --> 01:58:09,880
getting one of them and Dorian Phinney Smith basically, or

2604
01:58:09,960 --> 01:58:12,000
two of them and Dorian Phinney Smith. I think that's

2605
01:58:12,039 --> 01:58:15,319
a reasonable gambit to make. I think they are placing

2606
01:58:15,399 --> 01:58:18,359
a lot of stock in a version of DeAndre Ayton that,

2607
01:58:18,520 --> 01:58:23,199
if we're being honest, it's never actually existed so much

2608
01:58:23,239 --> 01:58:25,680
as it's come in like fits and burths. Do you

2609
01:58:25,760 --> 01:58:27,880
know what I mean to where it's even his best

2610
01:58:27,920 --> 01:58:30,880
season of his career? It wasn't. That was like seventy

2611
01:58:31,000 --> 01:58:34,279
games of Dion Dominaton. No, you never felt that way.

2612
01:58:34,520 --> 01:58:36,439
The stuff of bailing out at the room was still there,

2613
01:58:36,520 --> 01:58:39,640
some of the defensive inconsistency was still there. Again for

2614
01:58:39,760 --> 01:58:42,520
the money, for the short terminus of it all, I

2615
01:58:43,680 --> 01:58:46,479
think Marcus Smart at the Biannual, you can ask Nature,

2616
01:58:46,520 --> 01:58:48,159
we've burned the bi annual because and I can't use

2617
01:58:48,159 --> 01:58:50,439
it next year of Marcus Smart, I think a reasonable

2618
01:58:50,520 --> 01:58:53,279
enough upside play. I think it was they didn't have

2619
01:58:53,439 --> 01:58:55,520
necessarily a ton of tools at their disposal. If you

2620
01:58:55,640 --> 01:58:58,640
hate this offseason, I think it's for one of two reasons,

2621
01:58:59,239 --> 01:59:01,199
if not both. Is that you think that they should

2622
01:59:01,199 --> 01:59:04,119
have kept Dorian Finney Smith rather than going the direction

2623
01:59:04,239 --> 01:59:07,359
they did, or you think that they should have made

2624
01:59:07,399 --> 01:59:09,920
like some big time trade, which is just what was

2625
01:59:09,960 --> 01:59:12,439
out there? What was the trade? Like they even if

2626
01:59:12,439 --> 01:59:14,560
they had enough assets to get Cam Johnson, I'm not

2627
01:59:14,640 --> 01:59:18,079
sure that's the player that they needed, so you could say, well,

2628
01:59:18,079 --> 01:59:20,800
they didn't extend ruie Or do you like the way

2629
01:59:20,840 --> 01:59:22,920
they handled Lebron? That might be the other aspect of

2630
01:59:23,359 --> 01:59:25,359
of all this is that got very awkward. But if

2631
01:59:25,399 --> 01:59:30,640
we're being honest, them preserving long term flexibility is probably

2632
01:59:30,720 --> 01:59:32,840
the smart move when you look at Lebron's age and

2633
01:59:32,880 --> 01:59:35,720
the fact that they don't have another co star in waiting.

2634
01:59:36,359 --> 01:59:39,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, so maybe I'm holding on a little too long,

2635
01:59:40,039 --> 01:59:42,279
but I still I still do kind of like Phinney

2636
01:59:42,279 --> 01:59:45,319
Smith better than like on a winner than honestly like

2637
01:59:45,399 --> 01:59:48,439
all three of the guys you mentioned. I thought when

2638
01:59:48,439 --> 01:59:50,840
you were talking about like the holding on to a

2639
01:59:50,960 --> 01:59:52,960
version of a player that doesn't exist, you're gonna say,

2640
01:59:52,960 --> 01:59:56,039
you were gonna say Marcus Smart just because he has existed,

2641
01:59:56,079 --> 01:59:58,319
he's you know, he has been a great player, but

2642
01:59:58,479 --> 02:00:00,960
like I kind of feel like we might be past that.

2643
02:00:02,079 --> 02:00:04,920
Speaker 1: So and his rule, Jordan Goodwin is a better defender

2644
02:00:05,000 --> 02:00:08,520
than Marcus Smart right now? Probably not, but like but Marcus,

2645
02:00:08,640 --> 02:00:10,600
I was gonna say, he probably might be. Oh you

2646
02:00:10,680 --> 02:00:13,399
think so Smart's probably more versatile. But if you want

2647
02:00:13,520 --> 02:00:16,399
like the dog, I feel like Jordan Goodwin would be

2648
02:00:16,439 --> 02:00:16,800
the move.

2649
02:00:17,399 --> 02:00:20,000
Speaker 3: Is Jordan Goodwin going to steal you like three possessions

2650
02:00:20,039 --> 02:00:22,439
a game with like clever stuff, because I think Smart can.

2651
02:00:22,399 --> 02:00:22,840
Speaker 2: Still do that.

2652
02:00:23,119 --> 02:00:25,359
Speaker 3: But but yeah, like he's gonna have to be a

2653
02:00:25,720 --> 02:00:28,880
pretty key player, right Smart on this team because you

2654
02:00:28,920 --> 02:00:33,039
don't want Luca and Lebron guarding anybody. Uh, Austin Reeves

2655
02:00:33,079 --> 02:00:35,079
you don't love as your your best wing to fend,

2656
02:00:35,119 --> 02:00:36,600
Like there's he's gonna have a role.

2657
02:00:36,640 --> 02:00:39,119
Speaker 2: I'm a little concerned about that. And aydon, I don't know.

2658
02:00:39,119 --> 02:00:41,359
There's reasons these guys get bought out right, Like it's

2659
02:00:41,560 --> 02:00:42,640
it's not just financial.

2660
02:00:42,720 --> 02:00:44,199
Speaker 3: It's kind of like we would like it if you

2661
02:00:44,239 --> 02:00:48,000
were not around anymore here. So that like that's gives

2662
02:00:48,039 --> 02:00:50,479
me pause, I guess on Aiden even though the fair

2663
02:00:50,600 --> 02:00:54,479
years and dollars are like, yeah, totally great. The only

2664
02:00:54,600 --> 02:00:59,000
other thing if the only I've had a few knocks here, Like.

2665
02:00:59,239 --> 02:01:01,000
Speaker 1: How do you like it? Any of their moves? Grant,

2666
02:01:01,119 --> 02:01:02,319
Let's let's start there.

2667
02:01:02,960 --> 02:01:04,520
Speaker 2: I mean, Laavia, I think that's fine.

2668
02:01:05,560 --> 02:01:07,800
Speaker 3: And like, again, money wise, I think the eight and

2669
02:01:07,960 --> 02:01:11,439
move is like a decent risk reward proposition, especially given

2670
02:01:11,479 --> 02:01:13,640
what they had at center. You know that that's something

2671
02:01:13,680 --> 02:01:16,479
we probably should consider. Like Jackson Hayes is back on

2672
02:01:16,520 --> 02:01:21,079
the team, but like, you can't play that guy. I

2673
02:01:21,119 --> 02:01:25,199
think I've mentioned this to you, Like, yeah, I get it,

2674
02:01:25,319 --> 02:01:28,039
Like you can't you're reoriented around Luca. You can't be

2675
02:01:28,159 --> 02:01:30,680
beholden to Lebron. And I think not offering him another

2676
02:01:30,720 --> 02:01:34,000
one plus one is partly the team being like we

2677
02:01:34,119 --> 02:01:36,239
want you here, but also like you're not the central

2678
02:01:36,279 --> 02:01:38,920
figure anymore. That's like felt like a little bit of

2679
02:01:39,000 --> 02:01:42,960
a you know, implicit message there, are we sure that

2680
02:01:43,319 --> 02:01:46,680
the Lakers can treat Lebron this way when there's no

2681
02:01:46,840 --> 02:01:49,840
guarantee that Luca's next running mate will be better than

2682
02:01:49,880 --> 02:01:51,960
a forty year old Lebron, Like it might take a

2683
02:01:52,039 --> 02:01:56,560
while to get that guy, and so like that, I

2684
02:01:56,840 --> 02:01:59,560
get it. I understand, like it's probably right to just

2685
02:01:59,720 --> 02:02:01,479
kind of say, like this has been great. You got

2686
02:02:01,560 --> 02:02:06,039
us a title we cannot feature like in a like

2687
02:02:06,199 --> 02:02:10,039
figurehead way a forty year old player. But like it's

2688
02:02:10,039 --> 02:02:12,600
gonna be very hard for them to find someone that's

2689
02:02:12,640 --> 02:02:15,439
better than Lebron, Like they just full stop, like he's

2690
02:02:15,439 --> 02:02:18,720
an All NBA player. So you've now put yourself in

2691
02:02:18,800 --> 02:02:20,439
a position where you maybe need to trade him and

2692
02:02:20,560 --> 02:02:22,600
it's gonna be that's not easy to do with the

2693
02:02:22,680 --> 02:02:25,159
salary in the age, or you lose him for nothing,

2694
02:02:25,720 --> 02:02:28,039
like which is kind of where he retires. Like I mean,

2695
02:02:28,079 --> 02:02:29,800
maybe that's it. They just know he's gonna do that,

2696
02:02:29,920 --> 02:02:32,920
and so why pretend with a one plus one? Does

2697
02:02:32,960 --> 02:02:33,479
that make sense?

2698
02:02:33,600 --> 02:02:35,640
Speaker 2: Like I know, I think I've said that to you before.

2699
02:02:35,520 --> 02:02:37,359
Speaker 1: Like they don't know that you can do better if

2700
02:02:37,479 --> 02:02:40,960
Lebron's plan was to retire, why does Rich Paul give

2701
02:02:41,039 --> 02:02:43,880
that interview or release that statement to Sean Sharani at

2702
02:02:44,079 --> 02:02:45,840
ESPN at the beginning of the offseason.

2703
02:02:46,479 --> 02:02:47,439
Speaker 2: That's what I don't know.

2704
02:02:48,159 --> 02:02:51,359
Speaker 1: I I think maybe I'm overvaluing the flexibility that they

2705
02:02:51,399 --> 02:02:53,479
still I know that cap space is overrated now, but

2706
02:02:53,600 --> 02:02:56,640
like they've kept themselves aside from Jared Vanderbilt, they're like

2707
02:02:56,760 --> 02:02:59,640
free of just bad contracts, Like everything is tradable if

2708
02:03:00,039 --> 02:03:02,760
you need to start stacking guys on top of one

2709
02:03:02,760 --> 02:03:06,720
another to make a bigger move. But I also, you know,

2710
02:03:07,000 --> 02:03:10,199
I part of me like respects taking the longer view too.

2711
02:03:10,279 --> 02:03:13,319
But I'm all you're right, Like you're not guaranteed. I

2712
02:03:13,439 --> 02:03:15,560
never really thought of it that way. You're not guaranteed

2713
02:03:16,239 --> 02:03:18,840
to get a better running made for Luca? Then who

2714
02:03:18,920 --> 02:03:21,479
Lebron is? Right now that running may could be younger,

2715
02:03:21,720 --> 02:03:24,800
eventually reach a peak, and it'll never reach age forty

2716
02:03:25,079 --> 02:03:27,880
forty one Lebron James's peak. That's making me rethink my

2717
02:03:27,960 --> 02:03:29,560
grade on this team too. You might have talked me

2718
02:03:29,600 --> 02:03:31,119
into a lower Lakers grade, right.

2719
02:03:31,039 --> 02:03:33,279
Speaker 3: And I mean tied to that is the other thing

2720
02:03:33,319 --> 02:03:36,279
I keep saying, like, look, we love the revenge body

2721
02:03:36,399 --> 02:03:40,079
like Luca did it, but like you can't, like what's.

2722
02:03:39,880 --> 02:03:41,319
Speaker 2: The window for him? Isn't it?

2723
02:03:41,439 --> 02:03:41,960
Speaker 1: Kind of now?

2724
02:03:42,199 --> 02:03:43,800
Speaker 2: Like is Luca gonna be better?

2725
02:03:44,079 --> 02:03:47,520
Speaker 3: Like I mean, like Luca's has played about as well

2726
02:03:47,560 --> 02:03:51,039
as a human being can play basketball, So like getting

2727
02:03:51,119 --> 02:03:53,560
into this like too, maybe their windows much shorter. Maybe

2728
02:03:53,560 --> 02:03:55,520
they know who they're gonna go, Maybe it's Jiannis or

2729
02:03:55,600 --> 02:03:57,439
like whatever. Maybe they know who the next guy is

2730
02:03:57,520 --> 02:04:00,399
gonna be, But you can't really operate on like a

2731
02:04:00,479 --> 02:04:03,560
three or four year time horizon with Luca because like

2732
02:04:04,279 --> 02:04:06,640
there's just no guarantee he's gonna be better than he's

2733
02:04:06,640 --> 02:04:08,520
been in the past. I know I've mentioned that like that,

2734
02:04:08,640 --> 02:04:11,319
that one really sticks in my head of like, Okay,

2735
02:04:11,560 --> 02:04:14,119
he set the bar super high, like and maybe he

2736
02:04:14,319 --> 02:04:15,359
just can't get back there.

2737
02:04:15,720 --> 02:04:17,199
Speaker 1: Well, I was gonna ask you, why do we feel

2738
02:04:17,279 --> 02:04:19,439
that way about a twenty six year old though.

2739
02:04:20,720 --> 02:04:23,640
Speaker 2: Because of the conditioning issues and the injuries and.

2740
02:04:23,720 --> 02:04:26,680
Speaker 1: The like, you know, like I get so I look

2741
02:04:26,680 --> 02:04:30,560
at it just like feels like something this, something about

2742
02:04:30,680 --> 02:04:33,640
this body transformation feels different. And I think it's the

2743
02:04:33,760 --> 02:04:37,239
confluence of circumstances of the whole thing that the way

2744
02:04:37,319 --> 02:04:39,720
the Mavericks unfolded the reasoning they gave probably like to

2745
02:04:39,760 --> 02:04:42,680
fire on him them basically fat shaming him and his

2746
02:04:42,800 --> 02:04:45,720
work ethic on the way out, probably resonates the other

2747
02:04:45,760 --> 02:04:47,800
thing that I and I'm talking about I'm painting with

2748
02:04:47,840 --> 02:04:49,960
a broad brush here that we probably don't give enough

2749
02:04:50,079 --> 02:04:53,079
credence to these guys are so young, and when did

2750
02:04:53,119 --> 02:04:55,720
you really start like taking care of your body and

2751
02:04:55,880 --> 02:04:59,520
zeroing in on sleep and nutrition. He has more resources.

2752
02:05:00,079 --> 02:05:02,920
His job, His body is his job essentially, Like he's

2753
02:05:02,960 --> 02:05:05,479
twenty six now, like this might that might be like

2754
02:05:05,560 --> 02:05:07,359
when it all kind of finally started, Like wasn't that

2755
02:05:07,520 --> 02:05:11,199
basically when Lebron left Cleveland the first time and then

2756
02:05:11,199 --> 02:05:12,800
he goes through that first season Miami, it all kind

2757
02:05:12,800 --> 02:05:15,319
of just clicks. It's like, oh, Okay, there's a little

2758
02:05:15,319 --> 02:05:16,520
bit of a reality check there.

2759
02:05:16,960 --> 02:05:17,199
Speaker 2: Yeah.

2760
02:05:17,960 --> 02:05:22,000
Speaker 1: And I also think that now if he is committed

2761
02:05:22,319 --> 02:05:24,399
to and I'm not, I don't care what a player

2762
02:05:24,479 --> 02:05:27,439
actually looks like, like the aesthetics of it all. We

2763
02:05:27,520 --> 02:05:29,960
need to get past like this ideal body so far

2764
02:05:30,079 --> 02:05:30,399
as it.

2765
02:05:30,840 --> 02:05:33,359
Speaker 2: Reveals like what they're what they are and are not

2766
02:05:33,520 --> 02:05:35,119
doing preparation wise right.

2767
02:05:35,199 --> 02:05:37,439
Speaker 1: And I think that where people have been concerned about

2768
02:05:37,479 --> 02:05:41,159
can he still withstand the physicality of getting into the lane,

2769
02:05:41,319 --> 02:05:43,600
I look at it as if he's lighter on his feet.

2770
02:05:43,880 --> 02:05:46,319
I'm assuming that's gonna be good news for all these

2771
02:05:46,359 --> 02:05:49,079
different lower body injuries that he has dealt with. And

2772
02:05:49,199 --> 02:05:51,319
if the if the trade off is a few free

2773
02:05:51,359 --> 02:05:54,199
throw attempts per game, I'm more than happy to take it.

2774
02:05:54,319 --> 02:05:56,800
So I'm not saying that we're we've yet to see

2775
02:05:56,840 --> 02:06:00,720
the best version of Luca. But this idea that like,

2776
02:06:00,920 --> 02:06:02,760
why can't we just assume that Luca is going to

2777
02:06:02,800 --> 02:06:04,880
be Luca for the next seven years like we would

2778
02:06:04,960 --> 02:06:07,319
any other player that's his agent, as good as he is.

2779
02:06:08,119 --> 02:06:11,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's a great unknown. I just I yeah,

2780
02:06:11,439 --> 02:06:13,319
I'm fall somewhere in the middle. Like I think it's

2781
02:06:13,439 --> 02:06:16,199
very possible that he wins MVP this year. I also

2782
02:06:16,239 --> 02:06:19,880
think it's very possible that, like he we've seen the best.

2783
02:06:20,079 --> 02:06:22,399
It's because the best was it's hard to be better

2784
02:06:22,479 --> 02:06:24,960
than he was, Like they just maybe for that reason

2785
02:06:25,039 --> 02:06:28,760
more than any other. He's like if you're projecting upside

2786
02:06:28,880 --> 02:06:30,720
or breakouts, it's like you're gonna pick the guys that's

2787
02:06:30,760 --> 02:06:32,960
got five all NBA first teams, Like where where is

2788
02:06:32,960 --> 02:06:33,319
there to go?

2789
02:06:33,760 --> 02:06:35,760
Speaker 1: But I guess, so my question what is your you're

2790
02:06:35,920 --> 02:06:37,479
I guess you would be making the case that they

2791
02:06:37,520 --> 02:06:39,600
could have operated with more of a sense of urgency

2792
02:06:39,880 --> 02:06:41,640
a little bit, yeah, a little bit. What were they

2793
02:06:41,680 --> 02:06:42,239
supposed to do?

2794
02:06:42,640 --> 02:06:45,079
Speaker 3: That's the thing like that you mentioned, like, oh, if

2795
02:06:45,079 --> 02:06:47,000
you if you didn't like the offseason, they could make

2796
02:06:47,079 --> 02:06:50,720
some like crazy trade, like with what you know, would

2797
02:06:50,760 --> 02:06:51,479
be the response.

2798
02:06:51,760 --> 02:06:53,800
Speaker 1: So that because they'll have three first round picks to

2799
02:06:53,800 --> 02:06:55,800
trade next And honestly, so we didn't really get into

2800
02:06:55,840 --> 02:06:57,840
what are they trying to do because the default should

2801
02:06:57,880 --> 02:07:00,600
be content for a title. But I really think that

2802
02:07:00,640 --> 02:07:03,199
they were trying to remain relevant while setting themselves up

2803
02:07:03,199 --> 02:07:06,239
for a home run swing next next offseason, not with Catspace,

2804
02:07:06,279 --> 02:07:08,760
but maybe via trade. And if that was the goal,

2805
02:07:09,680 --> 02:07:12,359
they actualized it pretty damn good. Yeah.

2806
02:07:12,760 --> 02:07:15,399
Speaker 3: And then but then the question is is that the

2807
02:07:15,520 --> 02:07:17,560
right goal? Because if you have Don Chic and you

2808
02:07:17,640 --> 02:07:19,920
do think he's gonna be this great, you gotta go

2809
02:07:20,319 --> 02:07:22,439
like you can't. There are no gap years, there are

2810
02:07:22,520 --> 02:07:24,920
no there you know, there are no retrenchments.

2811
02:07:24,399 --> 02:07:28,000
Speaker 1: Like was it what was the when you said you

2812
02:07:28,079 --> 02:07:30,039
gotta go? Do you remember the theme song? It was

2813
02:07:30,079 --> 02:07:32,000
the commercial of you gotta go, gotta go, gotta go

2814
02:07:32,159 --> 02:07:33,960
right now? So he just made me think of what

2815
02:07:34,159 --> 02:07:34,319
was that?

2816
02:07:35,159 --> 02:07:37,640
Speaker 2: I don't know, well, probably like an adult diaper company.

2817
02:07:37,840 --> 02:07:40,199
Speaker 1: I do find I do find your argument about the

2818
02:07:40,319 --> 02:07:43,279
Lebron thinking Luca's next running mate very compelling. I went

2819
02:07:43,319 --> 02:07:45,159
with a B plus and I think I'm gonna stick

2820
02:07:45,199 --> 02:07:47,399
with it. I think they at what they're trying to do.

2821
02:07:47,479 --> 02:07:49,560
Whether it's right, I think we have to wait and see.

2822
02:07:49,600 --> 02:07:51,960
But if what they were trying to do was remain good,

2823
02:07:52,039 --> 02:07:54,960
get a little deeper, improve the center position while getting

2824
02:07:55,039 --> 02:07:57,800
ready and like remaining lean in the sense of these

2825
02:07:57,880 --> 02:07:59,640
long term contracts and so you're built to make a

2826
02:07:59,640 --> 02:08:02,720
bigger next summer, I think they actualized it. And the

2827
02:08:02,800 --> 02:08:05,279
other thing too, is they got not only they get

2828
02:08:05,359 --> 02:08:06,880
Luca to sign. You could say, well, we were gonna

2829
02:08:06,880 --> 02:08:09,720
offer whatever extension he wants. He might have just decided

2830
02:08:09,800 --> 02:08:11,840
I don't have loyalty to the Lakers. I just got traded.

2831
02:08:11,840 --> 02:08:13,680
I don't need to sign. The bigger thing was is

2832
02:08:13,720 --> 02:08:17,000
that he recruited DeAndre Ayton and Marcus Smart. It's like

2833
02:08:17,119 --> 02:08:20,319
this guy is bought in, So I'm gonna stick with

2834
02:08:20,439 --> 02:08:23,840
my B plus even I don't do I have Lakers exceptionalism.

2835
02:08:23,960 --> 02:08:25,239
Is that just what happened here?

2836
02:08:25,600 --> 02:08:28,920
Speaker 3: If it's any consolation, you almost like talked me up

2837
02:08:29,079 --> 02:08:31,199
from my B minus, and so if I also almost

2838
02:08:31,239 --> 02:08:32,800
talked you down, I think we're about right.

2839
02:08:33,680 --> 02:08:36,399
Speaker 1: It's yeah. So that's gonna be one that would be

2840
02:08:36,479 --> 02:08:38,600
interesting to revisit. Our next team.

2841
02:08:38,760 --> 02:08:39,680
Speaker 2: This one is my team.

2842
02:08:39,840 --> 02:08:42,640
Speaker 1: We move on to because he is a disaster the

2843
02:08:42,760 --> 02:08:46,239
Phoenix Suns. So they had an interesting offseason grant. They

2844
02:08:46,279 --> 02:08:48,359
fired Mike Budenholzer. How long was he there for?

2845
02:08:49,399 --> 02:08:50,079
Speaker 2: Less than a year?

2846
02:08:50,680 --> 02:08:53,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right? They hired Jordan Ott. No Michigan state

2847
02:08:54,039 --> 02:08:56,880
ties whatsoever. That's a lie. They signed Devin Booker to

2848
02:08:56,880 --> 02:08:58,479
a two year max extension that made a lot of

2849
02:08:58,520 --> 02:09:01,279
people angry for some reason, kick in twenty twenty twenty

2850
02:09:01,399 --> 02:09:04,039
twenty nine and includes a player option on the second season.

2851
02:09:04,640 --> 02:09:07,279
They have guaranteed themselves one extra year of Devin Booker.

2852
02:09:07,319 --> 02:09:10,760
Congratulations for the Phoenix Suns. They traded Kevin Durrant to

2853
02:09:10,840 --> 02:09:13,600
use this part of seventeen trade. This is just the cliff.

2854
02:09:13,720 --> 02:09:15,840
We've gone through this trade like eighty times now for

2855
02:09:15,920 --> 02:09:19,119
all these different teams. The Phoenix Suns traded Kevin Durant

2856
02:09:19,319 --> 02:09:21,800
and they got back in total for the most part,

2857
02:09:21,880 --> 02:09:26,039
Dylan Brooks, Jalen Green Common malawatch number thirty one, which

2858
02:09:26,079 --> 02:09:28,479
was Rashier, Fleming number forty one, which was Kobe Brea

2859
02:09:28,600 --> 02:09:31,920
and a twenty twenty six second round pick. Brea signed

2860
02:09:31,920 --> 02:09:33,920
a two way Fleming signed a four year, eight point

2861
02:09:33,960 --> 02:09:36,359
seven million dollars deal with the second round exception, it

2862
02:09:36,439 --> 02:09:39,520
has a team option. On the final season. They bought

2863
02:09:39,560 --> 02:09:42,520
out and stretched Bradley Beal. He gave back thirteen point

2864
02:09:42,560 --> 02:09:45,399
eight million dollars, which he had to, and I'm sure

2865
02:09:45,439 --> 02:09:47,600
we'll get into why in a second. They will now

2866
02:09:47,680 --> 02:09:50,079
have nineteen point four million dollars in dead money on

2867
02:09:50,199 --> 02:09:53,640
their books through twenty twenty nine. Twenty thirty, congratulations to

2868
02:09:53,680 --> 02:09:56,439
the Phoenix Suns. They traded number twenty nine, which was

2869
02:09:56,720 --> 02:10:00,640
Liam McNeely but Vasile Michic and a T twenty twenty

2870
02:10:00,720 --> 02:10:03,520
nine first round pick the least favorable of Cleveland, Minnesota

2871
02:10:03,560 --> 02:10:07,399
and Utah to Charlotte for one Mark Williams and its

2872
02:10:07,479 --> 02:10:11,000
own twenty twenty nine second round pickback. They signed Colin

2873
02:10:11,039 --> 02:10:13,319
Gillespie to a one year minimum deal, and they signed

2874
02:10:13,399 --> 02:10:16,960
Nigel Hayes Davis to a one year minimum deal. Grant,

2875
02:10:17,239 --> 02:10:20,680
Where in the actual hell would you like to start

2876
02:10:20,880 --> 02:10:21,880
with the Phoenix Suns?

2877
02:10:23,279 --> 02:10:26,159
Speaker 2: I'd like to be finished with them? Is that okay?

2878
02:10:26,600 --> 02:10:28,039
Speaker 1: Do you just want to breeze through and get to

2879
02:10:28,119 --> 02:10:29,239
our what's lower than an F.

2880
02:10:30,239 --> 02:10:33,680
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess like, so let's maybe the Booker one.

2881
02:10:33,800 --> 02:10:36,479
Speaker 3: Let's start with Booker partly because that's in order, but

2882
02:10:36,600 --> 02:10:39,039
also because I don't know, that's kind of interesting, like

2883
02:10:39,119 --> 02:10:41,920
what does that say about what the what the plans are?

2884
02:10:42,319 --> 02:10:46,359
And maybe the question to ask is is is Devin

2885
02:10:46,399 --> 02:10:50,600
Booker a more valuable asset with that extra guaranteed year

2886
02:10:50,720 --> 02:10:54,239
than he would have been otherwise? As like, even though

2887
02:10:54,279 --> 02:10:56,000
they're not going to trade him, if we're just going

2888
02:10:56,039 --> 02:10:57,800
to view him as like, well, what would it would

2889
02:10:57,800 --> 02:10:59,600
a team be willing to give up more for him

2890
02:11:00,079 --> 02:11:03,159
with an extra year at whatever seventy.

2891
02:11:02,920 --> 02:11:04,920
Speaker 2: Million dollars or something on the end of this deal.

2892
02:11:06,960 --> 02:11:09,159
I don't know, Like it's it's he was on books

2893
02:11:09,159 --> 02:11:11,800
for a long time either way, So this just felt like.

2894
02:11:13,159 --> 02:11:14,439
Speaker 1: Much money and who cares?

2895
02:11:15,279 --> 02:11:18,000
Speaker 2: Honestly, Like I was, I was disappointed. I wasn't mad.

2896
02:11:18,319 --> 02:11:19,159
I was disappointed.

2897
02:11:19,359 --> 02:11:22,920
Speaker 3: It was like Devin Booker, Yeah, in Booker because it's

2898
02:11:23,000 --> 02:11:25,279
like you can't be like you need to get out

2899
02:11:25,319 --> 02:11:27,159
of the business here, Like what are you seeing that

2900
02:11:27,319 --> 02:11:28,279
makes you optimistic?

2901
02:11:28,359 --> 02:11:29,319
Speaker 2: Why do you want to be here?

2902
02:11:29,439 --> 02:11:31,159
Speaker 3: And I get it, like they offer the money, you

2903
02:11:31,239 --> 02:11:32,680
take the money, and then you ask for a trade,

2904
02:11:32,840 --> 02:11:36,520
But like it just I like, why why are they?

2905
02:11:36,600 --> 02:11:37,640
Speaker 2: Why is anyone doing this?

2906
02:11:38,840 --> 02:11:40,760
Speaker 1: Mike and Sam from the time my podcast had talked

2907
02:11:40,760 --> 02:11:42,439
about this on The Sun's Looking Ahead to where I

2908
02:11:42,560 --> 02:11:46,119
think they said that Booker has said staying with one

2909
02:11:46,239 --> 02:11:48,800
like he understands why like the meaning of staying with

2910
02:11:48,880 --> 02:11:51,720
one team because you look at how you're treated by

2911
02:11:51,800 --> 02:11:53,640
that next fan base in mchaille, or maybe they were

2912
02:11:53,680 --> 02:11:55,600
making an example of like Michale Bridges with the Knicks,

2913
02:11:55,960 --> 02:11:58,279
no team is going to love you as much as

2914
02:11:58,319 --> 02:11:59,960
that for first team slash fan.

2915
02:12:00,800 --> 02:12:01,000
Speaker 2: Yeah.

2916
02:12:02,119 --> 02:12:05,199
Speaker 1: I think the question we need to ask though, is

2917
02:12:05,279 --> 02:12:07,319
I think you can talk even if they gave Devin

2918
02:12:07,319 --> 02:12:10,720
Booker the money to keep him happy, like that's okay, whatever,

2919
02:12:10,800 --> 02:12:13,159
And if you mentioned you're disappointed in Booker, he's still

2920
02:12:13,239 --> 02:12:15,239
trade eligible at some point this season. If he wants

2921
02:12:15,279 --> 02:12:17,520
to get out, he could get out, Mike. The actual

2922
02:12:17,600 --> 02:12:19,159
question we need to be asking is what was the

2923
02:12:19,359 --> 02:12:23,159
actual goal of this offseason, Like what did they accomplish

2924
02:12:23,239 --> 02:12:26,319
here aside from getting out of the second apron And

2925
02:12:26,359 --> 02:12:28,119
now they're like kind of a stone's throw away from

2926
02:12:28,560 --> 02:12:32,079
ducking the tax because that's the sticking point. The Kevin

2927
02:12:32,119 --> 02:12:36,560
Durant trades interesting because the return feels underwhelming. I don't

2928
02:12:36,720 --> 02:12:38,840
know if they had options out there, like I might

2929
02:12:38,880 --> 02:12:40,840
have just preferred the one at this point that gave

2930
02:12:40,920 --> 02:12:44,920
me more flexibility than having to pay Jalen Green, And

2931
02:12:45,000 --> 02:12:47,439
then how good is common model? Watch gonna be? The

2932
02:12:47,520 --> 02:12:50,279
bigger sticking point of their off season to me was

2933
02:12:50,720 --> 02:12:52,880
the Bradley Beal buying him out and waiving him. This

2934
02:12:53,000 --> 02:12:55,920
wasn't what the Bucks did with Damian Lillard, because one

2935
02:12:56,000 --> 02:12:58,439
Damian Lillard wasn't even gonna be available to play. And

2936
02:12:58,439 --> 02:13:01,000
even if you think that Bradley Bual is getting rid

2937
02:13:01,000 --> 02:13:03,479
of him as adition by subtraction, what did you do

2938
02:13:04,239 --> 02:13:06,520
after you got rid of Bradley Beal? It wasn't. It

2939
02:13:06,600 --> 02:13:08,560
was to save money. It wasn't for any other reason

2940
02:13:08,640 --> 02:13:11,000
other than to save money and maybe improve the vibes.

2941
02:13:11,640 --> 02:13:14,640
Speaker 3: Right, and like it for this team more than almost

2942
02:13:14,680 --> 02:13:18,119
any other, it's very difficult to separate what they did

2943
02:13:18,199 --> 02:13:23,159
this offseason from what has happened in the previous couple

2944
02:13:23,199 --> 02:13:26,000
of years, because like they're just in these impossible positions

2945
02:13:26,159 --> 02:13:28,640
of their own making, right, and so it's like, it's

2946
02:13:28,800 --> 02:13:31,399
terrible to get this return for Kevin Durant. It's ridiculous

2947
02:13:31,479 --> 02:13:33,680
to pay Bradley Beal to go away. But it's like

2948
02:13:34,520 --> 02:13:38,159
you've ruined this team so serious, so severely that like

2949
02:13:38,880 --> 02:13:41,880
this is just the best you could do. I guess so,

2950
02:13:42,640 --> 02:13:45,359
And like I think in a vacuum we'd be like, yeah,

2951
02:13:45,439 --> 02:13:46,920
you probably do want to save some money because this

2952
02:13:46,960 --> 02:13:48,359
team's not any good and you don't want to spend

2953
02:13:48,399 --> 02:13:52,039
what it's going to cost, right, like little quasi Celtics logic.

2954
02:13:52,600 --> 02:13:54,840
Speaker 1: Don't you think they could have went about getting out

2955
02:13:54,880 --> 02:13:57,680
of the second aprin another way, Like you have Royce O'Neill,

2956
02:13:57,760 --> 02:14:00,640
you have Grayson Allen. There had to be like even

2957
02:14:00,640 --> 02:14:03,279
if you wanted to get here's a question if you

2958
02:14:03,319 --> 02:14:05,960
could have just traded Dylan Brooks and gotten out of

2959
02:14:06,640 --> 02:14:09,039
the Apron that way versus paying Bradley be over the

2960
02:14:09,119 --> 02:14:11,359
next half decade. I understand you want him off your team,

2961
02:14:11,840 --> 02:14:13,520
but like then tell him to take his ball and

2962
02:14:13,600 --> 02:14:16,399
go home at some point, because to me, if you

2963
02:14:16,680 --> 02:14:19,800
put almost nineteen plus million dollars in dead money on

2964
02:14:19,880 --> 02:14:22,600
your books for the next half decade, you've now told

2965
02:14:22,680 --> 02:14:26,119
me that you're not planning on going anywhere special in

2966
02:14:26,199 --> 02:14:28,279
that next half decade. And the only way you could

2967
02:14:28,319 --> 02:14:31,000
have convinced me otherwise is had there have been a

2968
02:14:31,159 --> 02:14:33,279
light at the end of the tunnel, similar to what

2969
02:14:33,399 --> 02:14:35,560
it was with Milwaukee. And you can even quibble and

2970
02:14:35,640 --> 02:14:38,439
say like that that wasn't even enough, but they at

2971
02:14:38,560 --> 02:14:42,079
least got the perfect fit for their best player in

2972
02:14:42,159 --> 02:14:44,600
the front court out of a spot that was going

2973
02:14:44,640 --> 02:14:46,760
to be a complete zero if you were to put

2974
02:14:46,800 --> 02:14:48,359
him on the basketball court. They wouldn't have had the

2975
02:14:48,399 --> 02:14:50,359
option with Damian Lillard. The Sons would have had the

2976
02:14:50,399 --> 02:14:52,119
option to play Bradley Beal. I'm not saying that the

2977
02:14:52,159 --> 02:14:55,439
returns would have been good, So that's just cheaping out

2978
02:14:56,000 --> 02:15:01,199
in the biggest potential, like biggest way possible. But like,

2979
02:15:01,319 --> 02:15:04,479
the more unnerving thing to me is that it just

2980
02:15:04,640 --> 02:15:09,279
shows the plan is to do absolutely nothing coherent over

2981
02:15:09,319 --> 02:15:11,800
the next half decade. I just don't I don't understand it.

2982
02:15:12,039 --> 02:15:13,720
Speaker 3: I mean, they don't have any options, they don't have

2983
02:15:13,760 --> 02:15:16,600
any picks, they don't have any prospects that you know.

2984
02:15:17,920 --> 02:15:21,800
So in some sense, it's like to really get nihilistic

2985
02:15:21,800 --> 02:15:24,760
about like nothing they did could have mattered because they're

2986
02:15:24,760 --> 02:15:26,960
already just they're screwed like that.

2987
02:15:27,319 --> 02:15:27,479
Speaker 1: You know.

2988
02:15:28,000 --> 02:15:30,760
Speaker 3: However, many years you want to say half decade more

2989
02:15:31,000 --> 02:15:33,840
like right, But that's not an excuse, that's not an excuse,

2990
02:15:33,880 --> 02:15:36,359
Like you still should be trying to make the right

2991
02:15:36,479 --> 02:15:38,960
moves under the circumstances. The Brooks argument you made is

2992
02:15:39,000 --> 02:15:43,199
really compelling, Like there's got to be a way that

2993
02:15:43,319 --> 02:15:46,760
doesn't involve dead money upwards of twenty million dollars for

2994
02:15:46,880 --> 02:15:48,920
several years to get under that to say, you know,

2995
02:15:49,000 --> 02:15:51,720
like there's other there are other ways to do this.

2996
02:15:53,319 --> 02:15:56,760
I just I think maybe this maybe the simplest way

2997
02:15:56,840 --> 02:16:00,199
to talk about this is like everything from moving on

2998
02:16:00,319 --> 02:16:02,760
from a coach in Budenholzer that clearly was the wrong

2999
02:16:02,800 --> 02:16:06,399
pick from the outset, hiring another Michigan State guy, uh

3000
02:16:06,479 --> 02:16:10,239
putting it, putting a yet another somewhat tied Michigan state

3001
02:16:10,279 --> 02:16:14,800
guy in charge of personnel that has no experience, Brian

3002
02:16:14,840 --> 02:16:18,479
Gregory is in charge of personnel, Like it's just evidence

3003
02:16:18,520 --> 02:16:21,840
of an ownership that is like this ain't for you, man,

3004
02:16:22,079 --> 02:16:24,640
Like like you've you've made terrible decisions to this point,

3005
02:16:24,680 --> 02:16:27,199
and it just continues to be like they're given the

3006
02:16:27,279 --> 02:16:28,880
Kings a run for their money in terms of just

3007
02:16:28,960 --> 02:16:29,680
like capricious.

3008
02:16:30,119 --> 02:16:31,520
Speaker 2: Maybe they're maybe that's not even.

3009
02:16:31,399 --> 02:16:35,399
Speaker 3: Fair, it's because it's clearly host trapic, great, awesome, good

3010
02:16:36,040 --> 02:16:36,520
games for.

3011
02:16:36,559 --> 02:16:39,719
Speaker 1: Free broadcasting the games for free, that's a big one there.

3012
02:16:39,799 --> 02:16:42,639
Speaker 3: There hasn't been a plan, There isn't a plan, and

3013
02:16:42,719 --> 02:16:44,319
there doesn't look like there's gonna be a plan.

3014
02:16:44,680 --> 02:16:46,920
Speaker 2: So uh, we can just go to the grades. Like,

3015
02:16:46,959 --> 02:16:50,000
I don't know what else to say. Plus yeah, good good.

3016
02:16:50,079 --> 02:16:52,959
It's really zagging across the board.

3017
02:16:53,079 --> 02:16:55,840
Speaker 1: Because I do think just to the timeline, guys really

3018
02:16:55,879 --> 02:16:57,799
gave me the skinny on Nogel Hayes Davis and like

3019
02:16:57,879 --> 02:16:59,600
he's thirty, so I don't know what to expect for him,

3020
02:16:59,639 --> 02:17:02,000
but I love no But I'm actually getting to I

3021
02:17:02,120 --> 02:17:05,959
think that Kamanawatch can be interesting. Mark Williams is, at

3022
02:17:06,040 --> 02:17:07,639
least on the offensive end. I just don't believe in

3023
02:17:07,680 --> 02:17:09,639
his defense. I know a lot of people disagree there

3024
02:17:09,959 --> 02:17:12,600
that's someone who can be interesting. I like the idea

3025
02:17:12,639 --> 02:17:15,559
of Kobe Breya his shooting interesting. So I don't hate

3026
02:17:15,920 --> 02:17:18,399
everything they did, And I don't know how to actually

3027
02:17:18,479 --> 02:17:20,479
view the Kevin Durant trade is what I struggled with,

3028
02:17:20,639 --> 02:17:24,559
because is there, like, what is the alternative offer that

3029
02:17:24,639 --> 02:17:26,680
Minnesota had on the table where you could because Kevin

3030
02:17:26,719 --> 02:17:28,680
Durant had a lot of agency over where he's going.

3031
02:17:29,079 --> 02:17:31,479
And then if you're digging miss, are you starting to

3032
02:17:31,520 --> 02:17:33,639
penalize them for the way they handled at the trade

3033
02:17:33,639 --> 02:17:35,959
deadline where they tried to secretly shop him rather than

3034
02:17:36,360 --> 02:17:39,159
get his input initially and figured out something. Then I

3035
02:17:39,200 --> 02:17:41,600
don't know if that could be part of their offseason great.

3036
02:17:41,680 --> 02:17:44,399
So I'm just sort of I'm equivocating on how to

3037
02:17:44,520 --> 02:17:47,600
judge the Kevin Durant trade. The return on paper is underwhelming.

3038
02:17:48,120 --> 02:17:52,319
He's thirty seven and entering the final year of his contract.

3039
02:17:52,360 --> 02:17:54,680
I don't know how much better were you supposed to do.

3040
02:17:54,840 --> 02:17:56,879
I guess if you think that Jalen Green's money is

3041
02:17:56,959 --> 02:18:00,799
that far underwater for the next three years, there's definitely

3042
02:18:00,799 --> 02:18:04,040
a conversation to be had. So that's what I struggled with.

3043
02:18:04,120 --> 02:18:05,920
That's why they didn't get F minus. Is my point

3044
02:18:06,040 --> 02:18:07,719
is because I don't think that I looked at everything

3045
02:18:07,760 --> 02:18:10,959
as just a complete and utter failure. And look Jordan Ott,

3046
02:18:11,040 --> 02:18:13,879
Michigan State guy, and he's at least saying the right

3047
02:18:13,959 --> 02:18:16,200
things about how they want to play. So maybe maybe

3048
02:18:16,639 --> 02:18:19,159
there's a change in stylistic preferences. And you're already hearing

3049
02:18:19,200 --> 02:18:22,680
about Devin Booker and like these other players like that

3050
02:18:22,799 --> 02:18:25,000
it's not as depressing as it's been the past two years,

3051
02:18:25,319 --> 02:18:28,120
So like that's a good thing. Put that on a

3052
02:18:28,200 --> 02:18:33,559
banner our final team, grant your Sacramento Kings. Would you

3053
02:18:33,639 --> 02:18:35,760
like to take us through what they did this offseason?

3054
02:18:36,040 --> 02:18:36,559
Speaker 2: Absolutely?

3055
02:18:36,719 --> 02:18:38,920
Speaker 3: So. They officially hired Doug Christy, who took over for

3056
02:18:39,600 --> 02:18:43,040
the deposed Mike Brown last season. They also traded the

3057
02:18:43,079 --> 02:18:46,600
spurs twenty twenty seven first to the Thunder for number

3058
02:18:46,600 --> 02:18:49,479
twenty four. Nie Clifford h that pick will turn into

3059
02:18:49,520 --> 02:18:51,879
the kings twenty seven second and Charlotte's twenty seven second

3060
02:18:51,879 --> 02:18:54,440
if it is not conveyed. There's top sixteen protection on

3061
02:18:54,520 --> 02:18:57,520
that uh. They drafted Maxim Renaud at number forty two.

3062
02:18:57,879 --> 02:18:59,680
He signed a three year deal with a second round

3063
02:18:59,719 --> 02:19:02,520
except the team option on the final year of that.

3064
02:19:02,920 --> 02:19:04,479
They picked up kean Ellis's teams.

3065
02:19:04,639 --> 02:19:05,360
Speaker 2: He can now be an.

3066
02:19:05,319 --> 02:19:09,360
Speaker 3: Unrestricted free agent next summer. Traded Jonas Valentunas to Denver

3067
02:19:09,479 --> 02:19:12,639
for Dario Sarich. Traded Charlotte's twenty six second with top

3068
02:19:12,680 --> 02:19:16,000
fifty five protection fake second alert to Detroit for Dennis

3069
02:19:16,000 --> 02:19:18,559
Shruter and a twenty nine second that's the least favorable

3070
02:19:18,639 --> 02:19:22,040
of Detroit Milwaukee or the Knicks. Struder then signed a

3071
02:19:22,079 --> 02:19:24,799
three year, forty four point four million dollars deal, Only

3072
02:19:24,879 --> 02:19:27,000
four point four million of that is guaranteed in twenty

3073
02:19:27,079 --> 02:19:29,520
seven to twenty eight. The Kings also signed Drew u

3074
02:19:29,600 --> 02:19:31,920
Banks to a minimum and Doug McDermott to a one

3075
02:19:32,000 --> 02:19:36,799
year minimum. Dan, would you like about this offseason for

3076
02:19:36,920 --> 02:19:37,280
the Kings?

3077
02:19:37,959 --> 02:19:41,200
Speaker 1: I very much like Nee Clifford great. I think that that.

3078
02:19:41,520 --> 02:19:43,479
I think that that was a good bet. Bib the

3079
02:19:43,559 --> 02:19:45,879
King and the pick they gave up top sixteen protected

3080
02:19:45,920 --> 02:19:49,639
from the Spurs. That's fine with me for it. Okay,

3081
02:19:49,680 --> 02:19:52,879
after that, I mean, I don't I don't mind maximum

3082
02:19:52,920 --> 02:19:56,159
right now. Like he's big. He shoots threes like he's gigantic,

3083
02:19:56,239 --> 02:20:01,200
So don't I don't mind that. Everything else, I mean,

3084
02:20:01,680 --> 02:20:06,479
you know, the what is nothing? I mean, Doug Christy,

3085
02:20:06,559 --> 02:20:08,799
I'm again, I'm probably indifferent to that. Could they've had

3086
02:20:08,840 --> 02:20:11,799
more of a coaching higher process though, it seems very

3087
02:20:11,879 --> 02:20:16,120
much like Viveck decided that Scott Perry was not going

3088
02:20:16,200 --> 02:20:19,840
to choose his own guy. So that's that never ends?

3089
02:20:19,879 --> 02:20:20,040
Speaker 2: Well?

3090
02:20:20,040 --> 02:20:22,079
Speaker 1: When does it end? When has that ever ended? Well?

3091
02:20:22,559 --> 02:20:26,319
Speaker 3: If and the Kings did this for so many cycles

3092
02:20:26,440 --> 02:20:29,440
where they would they would swap out an executive and

3093
02:20:29,600 --> 02:20:32,000
not the coach, and so then you have this situation

3094
02:20:32,200 --> 02:20:35,479
basically where the head coach is not someone the executive picked,

3095
02:20:35,520 --> 02:20:37,239
and then the maybe they'd changed the coach, and then

3096
02:20:37,280 --> 02:20:39,440
the executive will hire someone and the executive would get

3097
02:20:39,440 --> 02:20:41,479
fired and there's a new guy and he didn't So

3098
02:20:41,680 --> 02:20:45,159
you're just kind of getting on the carousel again here. Yeah,

3099
02:20:45,280 --> 02:20:48,559
I I it's it's as struggle here, like just to

3100
02:20:48,719 --> 02:20:53,040
drill down on it, like the Shrewder deal is okay

3101
02:20:53,200 --> 02:20:56,239
in a vacuum, I guess, but like the guy's gonna

3102
02:20:56,239 --> 02:20:58,799
be on his thirteenth team or something like that, and

3103
02:20:58,920 --> 02:21:02,680
it's just he's the wrong kind of player for this roster. Yuh,

3104
02:21:03,360 --> 02:21:07,479
Valentunis is a is a way better player than Dario Sarich.

3105
02:21:07,600 --> 02:21:09,319
Like maybe if the threat was he's just gonna leave

3106
02:21:09,360 --> 02:21:11,000
the NBA, then okay, we'll take something, but.

3107
02:21:11,040 --> 02:21:12,520
Speaker 1: That would have helped him for what they wanted to

3108
02:21:12,559 --> 02:21:13,399
do by getting.

3109
02:21:13,840 --> 02:21:15,520
Speaker 3: Then you get out of the money. So even that

3110
02:21:15,920 --> 02:21:18,200
is like hard to defend. And Sarich is just kind

3111
02:21:18,200 --> 02:21:20,559
of cooked like has been for a while. So I

3112
02:21:20,639 --> 02:21:23,239
don't care that he makes half of what Valentnis was making.

3113
02:21:24,760 --> 02:21:27,079
Speaker 1: The you know what the the mardinal sin might be

3114
02:21:27,920 --> 02:21:30,360
is the key on Ellis stuff is that you had

3115
02:21:30,399 --> 02:21:32,719
a chance to make him a restricted free agent and

3116
02:21:32,840 --> 02:21:34,959
you've now they've yet to. He is extension eligible still,

3117
02:21:34,959 --> 02:21:36,920
so they could still sign him to an extension. But

3118
02:21:37,600 --> 02:21:39,479
like that's the type of player that teams will go

3119
02:21:39,600 --> 02:21:41,440
after in free agency next summer.

3120
02:21:41,479 --> 02:21:44,280
Speaker 2: Right, kind of like a universal fit, not going to

3121
02:21:44,319 --> 02:21:44,840
need to pay.

3122
02:21:46,680 --> 02:21:48,760
Speaker 1: Other ball handlers, defends his ass off.

3123
02:21:48,840 --> 02:21:51,000
Speaker 3: Like mid level money is not out of the question

3124
02:21:51,120 --> 02:21:52,639
for him, and a lot of teams will have that.

3125
02:21:52,920 --> 02:21:55,600
So yeah, like potential pretty big mistake there.

3126
02:21:56,440 --> 02:21:56,840
Speaker 2: I don't know.

3127
02:21:57,040 --> 02:21:59,079
Speaker 3: And maybe really what we should talk about is like

3128
02:21:59,680 --> 02:22:05,479
well sticking sticking with the core that has just very

3129
02:22:05,520 --> 02:22:09,639
little upside, just the Levigne DeRozan Sabonis corps. I mean,

3130
02:22:09,920 --> 02:22:12,680
not a lot has come of Sabonis's Like late season,

3131
02:22:13,000 --> 02:22:17,920
I'm gonna evaluate my situation comments see clarity, seek clarity,

3132
02:22:18,479 --> 02:22:22,040
we see you remember uh and and so like to

3133
02:22:22,159 --> 02:22:24,319
not break up that group and bring it all back

3134
02:22:24,440 --> 02:22:26,120
like maybe theyre just weren't good trade offers.

3135
02:22:26,159 --> 02:22:29,600
Speaker 2: I don't know, but like it's just really hard to

3136
02:22:29,680 --> 02:22:32,600
be optimistic about about anything here. Well, I don't know

3137
02:22:32,680 --> 02:22:33,239
what you point to.

3138
02:22:33,799 --> 02:22:37,440
Speaker 1: I almost can't criticize them for not blowing up because

3139
02:22:37,440 --> 02:22:40,559
they're they're not built to what is the player on

3140
02:22:40,719 --> 02:22:43,360
this roster that teams are gonna trip over themselves to acquire?

3141
02:22:43,600 --> 02:22:45,680
Right now, what does blowing it up look like? Right?

3142
02:22:45,760 --> 02:22:48,239
Speaker 3: I mean it would have to be will take worse

3143
02:22:48,319 --> 02:22:52,000
money back, like the old school move of like we're

3144
02:22:52,000 --> 02:22:54,799
gonna make this a three year process, We're gonna take

3145
02:22:54,840 --> 02:22:57,280
your bad money with a pick, And that's just never

3146
02:22:57,399 --> 02:22:58,879
been how the Kings have operated.

3147
02:22:59,399 --> 02:23:00,680
Speaker 2: But like that's that's what we would have.

3148
02:23:01,079 --> 02:23:04,159
Speaker 3: Counseled, right, Like you know, maybe maybe that's changed now,

3149
02:23:04,399 --> 02:23:07,399
like maybe maybe the rebuild process is a little different,

3150
02:23:07,479 --> 02:23:10,239
but like I think that's the move just because you

3151
02:23:10,399 --> 02:23:12,840
know where this ends, Like the upside is is so

3152
02:23:13,079 --> 02:23:14,719
limited here, especially in the West.

3153
02:23:15,159 --> 02:23:16,879
Speaker 2: You're old, your pieces don't fit.

3154
02:23:18,079 --> 02:23:22,200
Speaker 3: The move clearly, you know, would have been like just

3155
02:23:22,239 --> 02:23:24,719
speaking of like all the way down to the initial

3156
02:23:24,799 --> 02:23:25,799
question of like what's the goal.

3157
02:23:26,799 --> 02:23:27,200
Speaker 2: I don't know.

3158
02:23:27,680 --> 02:23:31,120
Speaker 3: The goal should have been to start over, and they

3159
02:23:31,159 --> 02:23:34,360
didn't do that, and so like I just I don't

3160
02:23:34,360 --> 02:23:36,959
know what else to really say, Like I gues we're

3161
02:23:36,959 --> 02:23:38,959
talking in hypotheticals like they should have done X, Y

3162
02:23:39,000 --> 02:23:41,120
and Z. How feasible would it have been to blow

3163
02:23:41,200 --> 02:23:43,600
this whole thing up? We know ownership doesn't have an

3164
02:23:43,600 --> 02:23:46,079
appetite for that. We know the fan base probably would,

3165
02:23:46,159 --> 02:23:49,399
just in my reading of it, would prefer another pursuit

3166
02:23:49,479 --> 02:23:52,120
of thirty eight to forty eight wins, which is like

3167
02:23:52,280 --> 02:23:54,000
thirty eight is going to be a tall order here.

3168
02:23:54,360 --> 02:23:56,239
Speaker 1: You're saying the fan base would prefer it. I would

3169
02:23:56,319 --> 02:23:57,159
argue the opposite.

3170
02:23:57,479 --> 02:24:00,959
Speaker 3: I think this is maybe anecdote, but it just really

3171
02:24:01,040 --> 02:24:03,559
does feel to me like they want a team that's

3172
02:24:03,600 --> 02:24:05,440
chasing a playoff spot. They want to go to the

3173
02:24:05,520 --> 02:24:08,959
games and have it be semi interesting night tonight, and

3174
02:24:09,239 --> 02:24:11,520
just a full on rebuild does not to me seem

3175
02:24:11,639 --> 02:24:13,319
like what's being called for to.

3176
02:24:13,399 --> 02:24:15,319
Speaker 2: My well, in my opinion, often enough.

3177
02:24:15,680 --> 02:24:18,239
Speaker 1: To correct myself before keon allis is not exten chaligeable

3178
02:24:18,280 --> 02:24:24,559
until February ninth, so edification there, But I don't I

3179
02:24:24,559 --> 02:24:27,600
don't know. I it's I get it feels like it

3180
02:24:27,639 --> 02:24:29,799
would be more split because I feel like maybe the

3181
02:24:29,920 --> 02:24:33,600
Kings fans that like I interact with would be all

3182
02:24:33,719 --> 02:24:36,200
for them having any sort of vision, which they don't

3183
02:24:36,280 --> 02:24:39,200
have right now. It's pretty clear, and like that would

3184
02:24:39,200 --> 02:24:41,440
be the question that we're supposed to consider in all

3185
02:24:41,479 --> 02:24:44,799
this is remove our biases on what they should have

3186
02:24:44,959 --> 02:24:47,959
done or how we feel about these moves in a vacuum.

3187
02:24:48,559 --> 02:24:52,120
What was the goal this offseason? What is the plan

3188
02:24:52,479 --> 02:24:54,479
they're attempting to move forward? And I'll even extend that

3189
02:24:54,600 --> 02:24:59,040
to by being involved at least tangentially and the Jonathan

3190
02:24:59,079 --> 02:25:03,120
Coming quote unquote sweepstakes. I don't okay, he's young, he's

3191
02:25:03,200 --> 02:25:06,399
wing sized. You do not have a lot of any

3192
02:25:06,440 --> 02:25:08,639
of those players, like you have all these guards and

3193
02:25:08,760 --> 02:25:12,239
you somehow have like no backup bigs unless we're going

3194
02:25:12,319 --> 02:25:14,120
Drew U Banks or is it Charitch or is or

3195
02:25:14,200 --> 02:25:16,959
is Rey no gonna get those minutes here? There's no

3196
02:25:17,760 --> 02:25:19,200
This is the team I was talking about it. If

3197
02:25:19,200 --> 02:25:20,680
you wanted to make a case that the Pelicans did

3198
02:25:20,760 --> 02:25:23,760
not have the worst offseason in the NBA, I think

3199
02:25:23,799 --> 02:25:25,680
the kings of the team to point to and say

3200
02:25:26,319 --> 02:25:28,600
that's the one that gives them a run for their money.

3201
02:25:28,719 --> 02:25:30,879
And that is when you consider that you have a

3202
02:25:30,959 --> 02:25:33,639
player as good as domas a bonus on the roster

3203
02:25:33,840 --> 02:25:36,360
and where you just were two years ago. Yeah, and

3204
02:25:36,440 --> 02:25:39,079
also like you just had the Aaron Fox last summer.

3205
02:25:39,159 --> 02:25:41,280
That is horrifying to be in this position.

3206
02:25:41,760 --> 02:25:45,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're they're worse now in the short term because

3207
02:25:45,879 --> 02:25:47,920
like Shrewder could have a career here and not touch

3208
02:25:48,159 --> 02:25:50,120
the numbers. Darren Fox put up in like a foot

3209
02:25:50,159 --> 02:25:52,319
out the door season, not this. Maybe he wouldn't have

3210
02:25:52,319 --> 02:25:54,200
had a foot out the door, but he did.

3211
02:25:54,840 --> 02:25:54,959
Speaker 2: Uh.

3212
02:25:55,360 --> 02:25:57,440
Speaker 3: And their worst long term because there just aren't any

3213
02:25:57,479 --> 02:25:59,799
prospects here and you've made it harder to keep one

3214
02:25:59,840 --> 02:26:02,799
of the only guys that has like an interesting future

3215
02:26:02,840 --> 02:26:05,280
in Keon Ellis by letting him hit unrestricted free agency.

3216
02:26:05,920 --> 02:26:08,399
Speaker 2: So I don't know what the plan was. It seems

3217
02:26:08,440 --> 02:26:10,639
like status quo ish. Uh.

3218
02:26:11,280 --> 02:26:13,920
Speaker 3: Just even bringing Christie back, I think is like you

3219
02:26:14,000 --> 02:26:16,159
had the golden opportunity to not do that when you.

3220
02:26:16,200 --> 02:26:18,760
Speaker 2: Hired a new executive. So I don't know what the

3221
02:26:18,799 --> 02:26:19,120
goal is.

3222
02:26:19,200 --> 02:26:23,399
Speaker 3: It seems ridiculously unambitious and uh, yeah, I don't know.

3223
02:26:23,440 --> 02:26:25,200
I don't have anything good to say, to be honest.

3224
02:26:25,680 --> 02:26:29,120
Speaker 1: No, I what's what was your least favorite move? So

3225
02:26:29,280 --> 02:26:31,879
not non move. I guess picking up Kean Ellis's team

3226
02:26:31,879 --> 02:26:34,159
option rather than would count but so honestly.

3227
02:26:33,879 --> 02:26:37,479
Speaker 3: You're Scott Perry because he's been here before, which is

3228
02:26:37,600 --> 02:26:40,440
just like ick right, and and did a bunch of

3229
02:26:40,559 --> 02:26:44,319
ridiculous machinations so they could sign Vince Carter and Zach

3230
02:26:44,440 --> 02:26:47,559
Randolph and Regon Rondo and was gone before that season

3231
02:26:47,600 --> 02:26:50,280
even ended, and you're like, that's our guy, as the Kings,

3232
02:26:50,440 --> 02:26:50,959
like that's.

3233
02:26:52,239 --> 02:26:55,559
Speaker 1: It's also funny that you overvalue Zach Lavine and trade

3234
02:26:55,600 --> 02:26:58,120
talks for dearon Fox and then proceed to hire a

3235
02:26:58,200 --> 02:27:00,719
guy who's on record as not thinking Zach Levine is

3236
02:27:00,760 --> 02:27:03,000
a valuable player to run your best Bob.

3237
02:27:03,680 --> 02:27:06,079
Speaker 3: It's it's just yeah, I mean maybe because you got

3238
02:27:06,159 --> 02:27:07,920
to start kind of at the top. Ownership is the

3239
02:27:08,000 --> 02:27:08,760
real issue, but like.

3240
02:27:08,920 --> 02:27:11,799
Speaker 2: Get it back down is the executive.

3241
02:27:12,559 --> 02:27:15,159
Speaker 1: So they didn't get what's the nice thing we could say.

3242
02:27:15,040 --> 02:27:18,760
Speaker 2: They didn't get an F minuses flat f's and I don't.

3243
02:27:19,120 --> 02:27:21,319
Speaker 1: I honestly, this is the one where it's like, if

3244
02:27:21,360 --> 02:27:23,120
you really wanted to talk me out an F for

3245
02:27:23,200 --> 02:27:26,479
Phoenix or I May, I don't. You can't talk me

3246
02:27:26,559 --> 02:27:28,239
out an F for the Pelicans or the Kings. I

3247
02:27:28,239 --> 02:27:30,520
don't like those are just I'd probably just be obstinate

3248
02:27:30,600 --> 02:27:32,879
in my views on them, I think to.

3249
02:27:32,959 --> 02:27:36,159
Speaker 3: The King's credit, they didn't give up an unprotected first

3250
02:27:36,239 --> 02:27:36,639
round pick.

3251
02:27:36,920 --> 02:27:38,520
Speaker 2: Yes, the next draft yet.

3252
02:27:38,399 --> 02:27:40,719
Speaker 1: Johnathan Kamina is not signed on the dotted line yet.

3253
02:27:40,760 --> 02:27:43,000
My friend, there's there's still time. Do you have anything

3254
02:27:43,040 --> 02:27:44,760
else to add or is that about do it for us?

3255
02:27:44,840 --> 02:27:45,639
Speaker 2: I think that's gonna do it.

3256
02:27:45,799 --> 02:27:48,959
Speaker 3: Were we shorter than the East, maybe by time? No, no, no,

3257
02:27:50,000 --> 02:27:53,120
I'll make this quick then. Thanks everybody for listening, for watching. Uh,

3258
02:27:53,600 --> 02:27:56,360
please remember rate review, subscribe, leave us some comments, and

3259
02:27:56,760 --> 02:27:59,000
give us some good reviews wherever you're listening to this

3260
02:27:59,159 --> 02:27:59,559
or watching it.

3261
02:27:59,639 --> 02:28:03,360
Speaker 2: That's very very helpful. We appreciate it if you'd like to.

3262
02:28:03,799 --> 02:28:05,959
Speaker 3: Pretty At some point coming up we'll do what are

3263
02:28:06,000 --> 02:28:08,360
we gonna do some over under predictions, So we're gonna

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02:28:08,360 --> 02:28:10,879
be using discord to kind of handle that.

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02:28:11,079 --> 02:28:13,879
Speaker 2: Links for links for that or in the YouTube and

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02:28:13,920 --> 02:28:15,120
podcast description.

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02:28:15,479 --> 02:28:18,120
Speaker 1: Check out our we should try plugging a future show.

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02:28:18,120 --> 02:28:21,399
We're gonna do a live show on Monday night about

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02:28:21,600 --> 02:28:24,200
ten about ten pm Eastern time, maybe a little after

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02:28:24,239 --> 02:28:25,879
ten pm Easter. I'm just reacting to some of the

3271
02:28:25,920 --> 02:28:29,120
biggest storylines to come out of the first like Mass

3272
02:28:29,239 --> 02:28:31,520
Media Day. We've already had a few training camps open.

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02:28:31,559 --> 02:28:34,920
Speaker 3: Obviously, we see who's skinny again, because that's apparently, apparently

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02:28:35,000 --> 02:28:35,559
that's the new thing.

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02:28:35,719 --> 02:28:38,959
Speaker 1: Who's who's career low body fat with while also putting

3276
02:28:38,959 --> 02:28:40,120
on fifteen pounds the muscle.

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02:28:40,399 --> 02:28:43,600
Speaker 3: It's best shape of your life season. We're gonna try

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02:28:43,639 --> 02:28:45,680
to get there by Monday night, just us two personally.

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02:28:46,319 --> 02:28:46,760
Thanks again.

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02:28:46,799 --> 02:28:48,559
Speaker 2: Everybody shouts frankly Latin apologies.

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02:28:48,639 --> 02:28:49,000
Speaker 3: Try down