1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:02,160 Speaker 1: Oh that is so catchy. And I love the guitar 2 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:05,320 work in that. The track is Nebeka Nezzer, and that 3 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:08,240 is Paul Nasol. I will ask him though, if I'm 4 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:09,679 pronouncing his name correctly. 5 00:00:10,199 --> 00:00:11,199 Speaker 2: I Paul, Are you there? 6 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:13,599 Speaker 3: Yeah, man, I'm there. I know you're not. 7 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:15,759 Speaker 2: No, okay, how do you say your name? 8 00:00:16,679 --> 00:00:18,399 Speaker 3: It's Nazole? 9 00:00:18,679 --> 00:00:22,399 Speaker 1: Oh, Nazole? Okay, because you are you're you're a lot 10 00:00:22,399 --> 00:00:28,440 of different things. Oh I can imagine. Yeah, because you're 11 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:31,920 of I was reading about you. So you're you're from Liverpool, right, 12 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:34,479 but you're of Italian descent, so that the name is 13 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:35,719 Italian I assume. 14 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 3: Right, that's right. Yeah, it's like a scouse. 15 00:00:39,079 --> 00:00:41,840 Speaker 2: Gotcha, gotcha. I love that song a lot. 16 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:44,399 Speaker 1: And is that you? Obviously that's your singing. Is that 17 00:00:44,399 --> 00:00:45,320 also you on guitar? 18 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:46,679 Speaker 3: Yeah? 19 00:00:46,719 --> 00:00:48,079 Speaker 4: I do some of the guitar. But there's also a 20 00:00:48,119 --> 00:00:50,600 guy called Robert Johnson on the guitar. 21 00:00:50,399 --> 00:00:53,039 Speaker 3: There as well. Okay, he's a great player. 22 00:00:53,079 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 4: Actually he's actually Ginger Baker's nephew. Would you believed, Yeah, yeah, 23 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:01,920 crea tribute. It sounds a little bit Clopton actually doesn't 24 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:05,120 it as well? Oh that's oh, that's wild. 25 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:08,719 Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh cool, very very very nice. Yeah, being are 26 00:01:08,799 --> 00:01:10,680 you do you currently still live in Liverpool? 27 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:13,400 Speaker 4: Yeah at the minute, Yeah, I'm sort of brunching out 28 00:01:13,439 --> 00:01:17,040 a little bit, but uh yeah, looking to uh, it's 29 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:18,079 got a little bit further field. 30 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:20,480 Speaker 3: But you didn't have a pool of most of my life. 31 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 1: I'm curious about and I you won't be the first 32 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:26,680 person I've asked this question of, but like, is there 33 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:30,000 is there a certain pressure that comes with being a 34 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:35,680 musician from a place that is so well known for uh, 35 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:38,280 you know, you know, in terms of of kind of 36 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:41,319 being it's I feel like Liverpool is almost kind of 37 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:45,799 like this this musical center of the universe within that 38 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:48,680 part of the world. What's that like being there in 39 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:49,480 that music scene? 40 00:01:50,599 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 3: It's great. Yeah, you know, it's very insense as well. 41 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 4: It can be a little bit of a bubble all 42 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:56,560 of its own, you know, which I imagine a lot 43 00:01:56,599 --> 00:01:58,599 of those places are like Nashville and stuff, you know, 44 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:00,439 I mentioned they're all a little bit like that. Yeah, 45 00:02:00,439 --> 00:02:02,840 but yeah, there's a lot of great things to be 46 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:03,239 said for it. 47 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:03,439 Speaker 3: Man. 48 00:02:03,439 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 4: You know, a lot of a lot of musicians, you know, 49 00:02:05,239 --> 00:02:08,759 everyone seems to play guitar. There used to be an 50 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:10,639 old saying back in the nineties used to save you 51 00:02:10,719 --> 00:02:14,199 from Liverpool. You either play football, you play guitar, or 52 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:16,319 you were you know, you're up to no good. 53 00:02:17,879 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 2: Right, the young fool, you know. 54 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:20,639 Speaker 3: But it's changing a lot. 55 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 4: You know, the city has changed a lot over the 56 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:24,240 last twenty years. It's a it used to be quite 57 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:26,240 a poor city. Now it's kind of it's growing a lot. 58 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:26,439 Speaker 3: You know. 59 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 1: Oh, that's good, explanding, that's good. 60 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:31,759 Speaker 2: Did you start playing guitar and singing at a young age? 61 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 3: Not really, No. 62 00:02:34,159 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 4: I was also interested in the arts in all different ways, 63 00:02:36,439 --> 00:02:41,199 you know, like writing and acting and poetry, and I 64 00:02:41,199 --> 00:02:43,360 got into guitar probably about seventeen something like that. 65 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 3: I played a bit of keyboards, a lover. 66 00:02:44,719 --> 00:02:47,080 Speaker 4: The bass, but it was really a little bit later 67 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:48,840 on that it's sours of took over, you know. 68 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:52,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's unusual. But I assume you know, 69 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:55,120 once you started playing, you probably picked it up quickly. 70 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:57,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's it. I was kind of possessed by it, 71 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:00,560 you know. And yeah, very fest. 72 00:03:01,439 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 2: You had played. Did you start out on keyboard? 73 00:03:05,159 --> 00:03:06,879 Speaker 4: Yeah, a little bit of keyboards, I think I and 74 00:03:07,039 --> 00:03:08,599 you know, I say play keyboard, I think I could 75 00:03:08,599 --> 00:03:14,719 play van Halen Jump, yeah, Moonlight sonata, yeah, and like 76 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:15,960 you know, one or two other bits. 77 00:03:16,759 --> 00:03:16,919 Speaker 3: Now. 78 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:19,080 Speaker 1: The reason I was the reason I was curious is 79 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:22,400 I've heard so many music professors and instructors say over 80 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,039 the years that no matter what you intend to play 81 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:28,080 for an instrument, you should learn some just some basic 82 00:03:28,159 --> 00:03:32,280 keyboard first, because and I can see that. Yeah, and 83 00:03:32,319 --> 00:03:33,840 I didn't do that. I didn't do that. I wish 84 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:35,879 I had, But I've just heard so many people say 85 00:03:35,879 --> 00:03:38,039 that because it, you know, it teaches you how to 86 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:41,280 in your mind sort of put chords together, and and 87 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:44,360 what you learn from the keyboard will help you with 88 00:03:44,479 --> 00:03:45,960 any other instrument that you play. 89 00:03:46,719 --> 00:03:47,479 Speaker 3: I can imagine that. 90 00:03:47,479 --> 00:03:50,159 Speaker 4: It's also like visually you can kind of see what's 91 00:03:50,159 --> 00:03:55,960 happened in red, you know, the space between the notes 92 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:57,000 and things like that, you. 93 00:03:56,919 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 2: Know exactly exactly, so. 94 00:03:59,599 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 4: You know, I'm writing on the I'm sorts of writing 95 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:05,039 bits on piano at the minute. And it's also very different, 96 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:07,759 you know, you know, guitar can sort of be a 97 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:10,159 very mechanical sort you know, like you kind of hunched 98 00:04:10,159 --> 00:04:12,520 around this thing. It's comfortable to play, of course, but 99 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:13,879 you know you are kind of like you know, hunch 100 00:04:13,919 --> 00:04:16,360 around it and it's a little bit more physical, where 101 00:04:16,439 --> 00:04:19,160 piano you kind of can sit down and it's all 102 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:19,920 there in frontier. 103 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:20,160 Speaker 3: You know. 104 00:04:20,199 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 4: It's like when I've I've sometimes have some problems with 105 00:04:23,759 --> 00:04:26,319 me jointing my fingers and so piano I can still 106 00:04:26,319 --> 00:04:28,160 play just fine, you know, but guitar can be a 107 00:04:28,199 --> 00:04:31,480 little bit more taxing, sure, because I've played far too 108 00:04:31,519 --> 00:04:32,279 much guitar, you know. 109 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 1: Now, So tell us about the single nebukid Nezzar, and 110 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:41,519 I imagine it's probably doing pretty well over there, right. 111 00:04:41,519 --> 00:04:42,480 It's such a great track. 112 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think in Liverpool. 113 00:04:45,319 --> 00:04:48,199 Speaker 4: You know, in Liverpool a lot of people know the 114 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:49,360 words to it actually and stuff. 115 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:49,480 Speaker 3: You know. 116 00:04:49,519 --> 00:04:52,879 Speaker 4: It's actually it's got a very you know, it's got 117 00:04:52,879 --> 00:04:56,240 a flavor that seems very Liverpool to me, and I 118 00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:59,079 guess that. You know, mostly when I play locally, it's 119 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:01,720 it's acoustic and and the song works really nicely acoustically 120 00:05:01,759 --> 00:05:02,240 stripped back. 121 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:03,319 Speaker 3: You know, it sounds a. 122 00:05:03,319 --> 00:05:05,600 Speaker 4: Little bit more Beatles when you when we recorded it, 123 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:10,720 but yeah, when when I play it, you know, locally, 124 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:12,759 and it's more stripped back, it's got more of like 125 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:16,120 a folky sort of feel. You know, and yeah it did. 126 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:17,560 You know, you can always tell a good song, you know. 127 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:19,240 This seems to resonate with people. You can see it 128 00:05:19,319 --> 00:05:22,199 very quickly, you know, especially with the musicians, so to 129 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:25,279 see their eyes light up, you know. And it's funny 130 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:26,600 actually because it was one of those songs that I 131 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:29,040 wrote very quickly. It all just came out in one go. 132 00:05:30,759 --> 00:05:31,879 And you know, I used to be able to do 133 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:34,199 a lot more when I was younger. Right now is 134 00:05:34,199 --> 00:05:37,639 a little bit more ponderous, you know, but but yeah, 135 00:05:37,639 --> 00:05:39,439 there's something to be said for it. I think those 136 00:05:39,439 --> 00:05:42,480 songs that come out very quickly, you sort of channel them, 137 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:42,680 you know. 138 00:05:43,399 --> 00:05:45,920 Speaker 1: Well also too, if if people are learning the words, 139 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:47,519 you know, if you're playing it at shows and people 140 00:05:47,519 --> 00:05:49,759 know the words, then you know it's really resonating, you know. 141 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:50,680 Speaker 3: Definitely. 142 00:05:50,759 --> 00:05:52,519 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that's one hundred percent, because you know, you 143 00:05:52,519 --> 00:05:54,519 get you get songs which are like very pleasant to 144 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:58,560 listen to, you know, but but when it's got that 145 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:00,839 catchy thing, there's there's something he said, and that's kind 146 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:02,000 of you know, that's a view I kind of have 147 00:06:02,079 --> 00:06:04,120 on on art as well. 148 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:06,879 Speaker 3: In poetry and in stuff. I think I read it. 149 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 4: It was a guy in like the twenties or something, 150 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:12,120 was like critiquing the modernist poets, you know, T. S. 151 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:14,399 Eliot and people like that, and he was saying that, 152 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:17,680 you know, the flowery language and the mastery of language 153 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:20,319 that these guys had was amazing, and he didn't want 154 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:23,480 to critique that, but he said, there's something beautiful about 155 00:06:23,519 --> 00:06:26,360 sorts of the folk poetry of rhyme, which is that 156 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:29,199 like children could recite this stuff around the fire, you know, 157 00:06:29,319 --> 00:06:31,759 and yeah, and it stuck in the mind and it 158 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:34,720 furnished their minds with beautiful words, you know, and and 159 00:06:34,759 --> 00:06:36,319 there was something really nice about that. And I think 160 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:38,680 songs can have that's just's room for everything, but there's 161 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:41,079 something to be said for that type of stuff, you know. 162 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:42,480 And that's I always try and put a bit of 163 00:06:42,519 --> 00:06:45,000 focus on rhyme. And I always think if you can 164 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:47,720 say what you're trying to say and make it rhyme, 165 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:50,279 then maybe you're onto someting, you know. 166 00:06:50,399 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 1: Right, right, absolutely, So, can you tell us more about 167 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:56,800 the single Nebuchadnezzar? Where where does it come from? And 168 00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:59,800 what are the themes are exploring in the song? 169 00:07:01,199 --> 00:07:05,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, so it's sort of about, like, you know, first 170 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:07,399 of all, I guess it's like it felt like to 171 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:10,240 me like it was coming to grips with a lot 172 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:12,600 of stuff, a lot of like troubles and confusion. That 173 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:14,439 was like a central theme to it, you know. And 174 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:18,959 never connessed himself, the old King of Babylon. He was 175 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:21,399 tormented by dreams, you know, and he's this sort of 176 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:26,160 conflicting figure who God punishes but also seems to love 177 00:07:26,199 --> 00:07:28,800 because he lets him be redeemed, you know. And that 178 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:30,439 was what sort of I like the idea, And it's 179 00:07:30,439 --> 00:07:34,199 just a great way, doesn't it from that way straight away? 180 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 3: You know? And yeah, so it was like sort of 181 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:39,040 going through it in my own life. It was a 182 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:43,439 very confusing time. I was I had a kid on 183 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:43,800 the way. 184 00:07:44,439 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 4: I was also going through a new relationship with a 185 00:07:47,439 --> 00:07:48,319 musician which. 186 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:48,959 Speaker 3: Was total chaos. 187 00:07:51,079 --> 00:07:52,759 Speaker 4: And so yeah, it was like, I guess, the confusing 188 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:56,800 time in my life, and it all came came about 189 00:07:56,839 --> 00:07:58,920 from that. And also it was when I was quite 190 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:00,720 like getting back into music. Really it was when I 191 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,319 was what saydy that I got back to and I 192 00:08:03,399 --> 00:08:05,000 used to run a music venue for a long time, 193 00:08:05,399 --> 00:08:07,959 really taken me away from performing. Yeah, it was a great, 194 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:10,360 famous old place actually it was a recording studio that 195 00:08:10,399 --> 00:08:13,079 it turned into a bar so where cold Play recorded 196 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:16,399 two albums actually, amongst amongst many others. Yeah, it was 197 00:08:16,439 --> 00:08:19,639 great pastory studios. It was called it Got It Got Bulldoze. Unfortunately, 198 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:23,279 I would have been quite happy to to try and 199 00:08:23,279 --> 00:08:27,680 buy the venue and life different paths, but instead, when 200 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:29,920 it closed, I thought, well, maybe I'll try music again instead, 201 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:33,039 And so for me, NEB also represents like the start 202 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:34,879 of an adventure, you know, and I think that it 203 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:36,399 kind of sounds like that a little bit, you know. 204 00:08:36,639 --> 00:08:38,519 I like the trumpet and we added some trumpet in 205 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:41,240 a Yes, the trump always makes you think it's like. 206 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 3: A herald, you know, It's like it does. 207 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right. 208 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 4: The King is coming to town and the world trumpet 209 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:48,960 plays with veagle, you know that's right. 210 00:08:49,039 --> 00:08:50,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. I hadn't even thought of that, but 211 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:51,399 you're right. 212 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:55,240 Speaker 1: Uh yeah, the production, the product, the production is fantastic. 213 00:08:55,399 --> 00:08:58,480 Uh now who did you who did you work with 214 00:08:58,519 --> 00:08:58,759 on that? 215 00:08:58,879 --> 00:09:01,919 Speaker 2: As far as uh production? And is that the same? 216 00:09:02,639 --> 00:09:04,919 Is it the same for the entire album? 217 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 3: Yeah? 218 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 4: Mostly it's It was a mixed by Goat and recorded 219 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:13,000 by a guy called Russell Cottier Soundhouse Recording Studio, which 220 00:09:13,039 --> 00:09:16,000 is an amazing old recording studio, a little hidden gem 221 00:09:16,039 --> 00:09:19,279 actually in Liverpool, not many people seem to know about. 222 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:23,679 And it was in my hometown, which was just was 223 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:25,600 really what drew me to. I thought like it was nice, 224 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:29,960 something nice about that being close to home, and. 225 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, Russell done a great job. But actually there was. 226 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:35,519 Speaker 4: Some of the parts we recorded at another studio as well, 227 00:09:35,519 --> 00:09:39,039 like a home studio, and I think that was the 228 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:43,080 fiddle parts and some of the harmony parts were recorded 229 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:48,159 externally from a previous attempt at recording the single. But 230 00:09:48,279 --> 00:09:50,559 like you know, that's the thing. It was like budgets 231 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:52,679 and stuff defeated. That was a bit limister done what 232 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:54,159 I could do. So when we got the chance to, 233 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:58,600 I got picked up with a manager, fuel the Fire, 234 00:09:58,759 --> 00:10:01,559 and they produced the album for me in there. 235 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 2: Oh wow. 236 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:04,759 Speaker 3: So having a bit of a budget and stuff together 237 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:05,039 and a. 238 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:12,399 Speaker 4: Bigger a bigger crew of musicians to draw from and stuff, 239 00:10:13,759 --> 00:10:15,080 we had another going and put it together and. 240 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:15,799 Speaker 3: I'm pretty happy with it. 241 00:10:15,799 --> 00:10:18,679 Speaker 4: I'd like to record an acoustic version of it with 242 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:22,279 a flute or something, but oh yeah, it means still 243 00:10:22,279 --> 00:10:24,799 have happened yet and now. 244 00:10:24,639 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 1: This is is this your first this album? Is this 245 00:10:27,039 --> 00:10:28,600 your first release as a solo artist? 246 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:30,039 Speaker 3: Yeah? 247 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 4: Yeah, there was a couple of like basic singles put 248 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:34,720 out in from home studios, but this is the first 249 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:35,720 proper release really. 250 00:10:35,799 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 3: Yeah. 251 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:39,440 Speaker 1: Okay, Now, now were you playing in bands before? I 252 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:41,080 know you mentioned you kind of took a break too 253 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:44,480 from playing because you're running running a venue, But prior 254 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:46,440 to that, were you playing in bands or maybe during that? 255 00:10:46,879 --> 00:10:47,159 Speaker 3: Yeah? 256 00:10:47,279 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, for a long time, from like say seventeen to 257 00:10:51,519 --> 00:10:54,519 twenty five, I was always mostly as a lead guitarist, 258 00:10:54,519 --> 00:10:55,240 never as a singer. 259 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 3: Oh really, I done a lot of rights. Yeah, I've 260 00:10:57,080 --> 00:10:58,200 done a lot of writing. 261 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:00,399 Speaker 4: For chords and things like that, but I've got a 262 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:02,080 couple of other projects coming out. Actually, so did a 263 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:05,200 lot of collaborations and league guitar in bands. 264 00:11:05,039 --> 00:11:07,559 Speaker 3: With tons of people in Liverpool. 265 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 4: But yeah, never really put it forward as you know, 266 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:13,360 as an artist in my own right. So this was 267 00:11:13,399 --> 00:11:16,000 the first time to really try and do that, you know, 268 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:18,200 because in Liverpool had sort of been that kind of character. 269 00:11:18,279 --> 00:11:21,519 I was kind of someone who like brought things together, 270 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:24,679 you know, sort of hosting open mics and putting on 271 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:27,639 events and sure, and so a lot of my stuff 272 00:11:27,639 --> 00:11:30,080 that I'd done was really all about collaboration and community, 273 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:31,759 and so it was nice to finally do something that 274 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:34,399 was kind of like, well, this is more about me 275 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:35,480 being an artist now, you know. 276 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 1: Was that always kind of the goal even when you 277 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:41,679 were playing in bands consistently. Was it always kind of 278 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:43,360 in the back of your mind that you would eventually 279 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:44,799 do a solo album. 280 00:11:45,159 --> 00:11:45,200 Speaker 3: No? 281 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:48,960 Speaker 4: Never, really, I don't think I really had the belief 282 00:11:49,039 --> 00:11:50,919 or the confidence, you know. And then I think as 283 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:52,720 I was getting older in the venue, didn't warhouse. 284 00:11:52,759 --> 00:11:56,159 Speaker 3: I thought, you know, you better do something, you know, right, 285 00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:57,240 And also, you know. 286 00:11:57,200 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 4: It was also that kind of thing of you know, like, 287 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:03,399 ultimately you've got to take your destiny in your own hands, 288 00:12:03,399 --> 00:12:06,559 haven't you. So I'd played with a lot of bands 289 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:08,559 that I thought was great, but for one reason or another, 290 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:12,639 they wouldn't work out, and you know, you would dependent 291 00:12:12,759 --> 00:12:15,399 on four or five other people being on the same page. 292 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:17,720 So just by necessity, it was like, what if I 293 00:12:17,759 --> 00:12:19,200 want to have a real go with this, I'm gonna 294 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:20,240 have to do it for myself, you know. 295 00:12:20,919 --> 00:12:23,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the hardest thing I think about being in 296 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:25,519 a band is you know, I've I've been in a 297 00:12:25,519 --> 00:12:29,559 lot of bands, and it's it's hard when you because 298 00:12:29,879 --> 00:12:33,639 you've got people with varying degrees of commitment and and yeah, 299 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:35,679 you know, and in terms of what their vision is 300 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:38,279 for for what you're doing, and and it's, uh, that 301 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:40,039 can be really challenging. Plus you got to deal with 302 00:12:40,039 --> 00:12:43,600 everyone's schedules and whatnot. So there's so many things, you know, Yeah, 303 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:46,120 there's so many musicians we've had. 304 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 3: You know, people people have kids and you know, everything 305 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:49,360 and it can change. 306 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:51,679 Speaker 1: Things, you know exactly, and also people. 307 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 3: People see it. You know. For me, it's very important, 308 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:53,240 you know. 309 00:12:53,279 --> 00:12:54,759 Speaker 4: It's the kind of stuff I just think about all 310 00:12:54,799 --> 00:12:56,679 the time, you know, not just just music, but also 311 00:12:56,720 --> 00:12:58,919 like writing little poems and things. You know, it's just 312 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:02,399 sort of how I live, you know. And it also 313 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:03,759 sorts of occurred to me in the end that it's 314 00:13:03,799 --> 00:13:08,799 unrealistic to expect anyone else to have that same. 315 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:11,200 Speaker 3: Right, right, maybe you know. 316 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:14,159 Speaker 1: Now you did mention, so you're going to be doing 317 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:15,960 going forward. You are going to be doing some more 318 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:18,720 collaborating though, So I like, what what's kind of the 319 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:21,360 is the solo is the solo stuff that you're doing, 320 00:13:21,399 --> 00:13:23,360 is that kind of the main priority, and the other 321 00:13:23,399 --> 00:13:25,679 things are ancillary or or. 322 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:26,879 Speaker 3: How do I think I'll do them. 323 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:29,080 Speaker 4: I'll do them as a you know, under my own name, 324 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:31,799 as a collaboration maybe with with some of the artists 325 00:13:31,799 --> 00:13:33,320 I'm looking and I'm actually planning at the minute to 326 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:37,399 go to a sort of farm on the Southwest and 327 00:13:37,759 --> 00:13:41,240 do something kind of routine, you know, with a maybe 328 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:42,399 live take a little bit of it. 329 00:13:42,399 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 3: Because there's two dimensions to me. 330 00:13:43,759 --> 00:13:45,279 Speaker 4: I supposed to grew up as a bit of a 331 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:48,080 rock but as I've got older and I've supposed to 332 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:52,360 become a bit folky. Yeah, I guess we had to 333 00:13:52,399 --> 00:13:55,480 talk with the two. But I feel like with the album, 334 00:13:55,519 --> 00:13:56,639 I was able to get a lot of the rock 335 00:13:56,679 --> 00:13:59,080 stuff helped me system. And now I'd like to do 336 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:02,679 something maybe a little bit more routine and you know, 337 00:14:02,799 --> 00:14:05,360 and also, you know, like a lot of the stuff 338 00:14:05,399 --> 00:14:08,039 on the album, it's a little bit I don't know, 339 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:10,120 like the subject matters and stuff, and often a little 340 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:13,320 bit self indulgent, you know, it's offing about offing about me. 341 00:14:13,399 --> 00:14:14,799 I'd like to do something maybe a little bit more 342 00:14:14,799 --> 00:14:17,639 about the world, you know. Notice, but if it's a 343 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:20,919 crazy time in the world, you know. 344 00:14:21,279 --> 00:14:23,279 Speaker 3: I've noticed especially where you are, man, you know. 345 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 2: You're you're not getting dude, You're not kidding. 346 00:14:28,679 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 4: And also you know, like also like the rise of 347 00:14:30,759 --> 00:14:32,360 AI and stuff like that, and you know, I don't 348 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:35,159 even want to I don't even want to put you know, 349 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:37,320 value dridgones and everything. I just kind of want to 350 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:40,120 maybe step back and just observe and just sort of 351 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:43,600 write what I'm seeing, you know, and not you know, 352 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:46,080 try and get pretty earth and but you know, just 353 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:47,240 sort of say what I see. 354 00:14:47,279 --> 00:14:48,639 Speaker 3: You know, is that. 355 00:14:48,679 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 1: Something that you're concerned about AI in terms of because 356 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:53,679 that's something we talked about a lot on the show. 357 00:14:53,919 --> 00:14:55,679 Speaker 4: I'm glad you brought it up. Man, I've had some 358 00:14:55,799 --> 00:14:58,039 radical thoughts on it lately. That's piss a few people off, 359 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:01,480 you know, But I kind of think, you know, you know, 360 00:15:01,519 --> 00:15:03,320 the two ways I could criticize it is like the 361 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:06,399 technological sides, you know, and what that means for the 362 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:09,039 industry and that. But really, you know, you know, I 363 00:15:09,039 --> 00:15:10,879 know a lot of successful bands now are playing to 364 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:13,840 backend tracks, and and you know a lot of people 365 00:15:13,919 --> 00:15:16,960 using plugins instead of real instruments, and and a lot 366 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:20,080 of people you know, like like there's drum machines out there, 367 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:23,159 there's I mean, where the line is, I'm not sure anymore. 368 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:25,039 So that was one side of thoughts about the Technologically, 369 00:15:25,039 --> 00:15:27,440 I was like, maybe actually this is just something that's 370 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:29,039 always happened. And then the other side of it was 371 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:31,919 kind of about authenticity. But I really I thought, you know, 372 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:34,799 like looking at the stage of the you know, like 373 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:37,559 I always say, Sabrina Carpenter might as well be AI. 374 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 3: You know, it's like, I don't know what. 375 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 4: And also even the politicians are all fake, you know, 376 00:15:43,519 --> 00:15:46,080 and and everything seems kind of a little bit in 377 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:47,159 authentic in the world. 378 00:15:47,159 --> 00:15:49,399 Speaker 3: And so that doesn't really scare me. 379 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:51,559 Speaker 4: I feel like artists who have got something to say 380 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:55,320 are still going to stand out, you know, So I 381 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:58,399 don't know, maybe they eye isn't really something to be feared. 382 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:01,759 I personally don't fee all too threatened by it. 383 00:16:01,759 --> 00:16:01,879 Speaker 3: You know. 384 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 4: Also, the industry has been in the industry has been 385 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:05,519 in a bit of a bad way for a long time, 386 00:16:05,559 --> 00:16:08,840 hasn't it in regards to making any money and stuff 387 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:10,360 in the way Spotify, you know, I see that with 388 00:16:10,399 --> 00:16:12,639 Spotify a lot, you know, like when I was there 389 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:15,679 trying to promote the album I'd sort of fall prey 390 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:17,919 to these things on social media, and you'd see these 391 00:16:17,919 --> 00:16:20,039 guys and they'd be talking about, you know, how to 392 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:23,200 promote your music. And people were getting very good at 393 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:25,399 like gaming the system almost, you know, so they could 394 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:28,360 get on these playlists and and and these guys had 395 00:16:28,399 --> 00:16:30,399 like millions of plays. But when I've listened to the music, 396 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:32,200 I was like, it's so mediocre. I don't know, that's 397 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:34,399 just my taste. But from my point of view, I 398 00:16:34,519 --> 00:16:37,480 was like, you know, this music must have millions of plays, 399 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:39,200 But what does that even mean. I don't think anyone's 400 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:40,960 going to care about this in ten years time, so 401 00:16:41,639 --> 00:16:44,360 what are we even doing here anymore? And so really 402 00:16:44,399 --> 00:16:46,559 with the I I think I'm thinking, what does it 403 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:48,639 really change? Like what, there's a load of fake music? Well, 404 00:16:48,639 --> 00:16:50,639 there's already a load of fake music made by humans, 405 00:16:50,679 --> 00:16:50,840 you know. 406 00:16:51,759 --> 00:16:55,039 Speaker 3: Right, maybe this is going to shake the tree. 407 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 4: A little bit, you know, and maybe maybe it's going 408 00:16:57,639 --> 00:16:59,480 to be okay, but really, you know, it's not. It's 409 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:01,559 you know, I think there's more a fear from AI 410 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:03,879 for how than how it's going to affect music, you know. 411 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:06,720 Speaker 2: Right, Oh yeah, A true good. 412 00:17:06,519 --> 00:17:08,599 Speaker 3: Points like what do you think you like it or 413 00:17:08,599 --> 00:17:09,119 do you hate it? 414 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 1: Well, I'll tell you I I I like what you 415 00:17:12,759 --> 00:17:17,200 said about how you know, AI is already in some degrees, 416 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:20,839 it's already been there, especially with you know, you have 417 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:23,000 bands who use backing tracks and plugins and all that. 418 00:17:23,079 --> 00:17:25,920 So it's not as though it's not as though technology 419 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:28,680 has not been helping artists to kind of I don't 420 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:30,599 want to say cheat because I don't make any value 421 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:31,519 judgment about it, but. 422 00:17:31,559 --> 00:17:33,519 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, but but. 423 00:17:33,279 --> 00:17:36,359 Speaker 1: But but to kind of enhance the live experience, shall 424 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:39,640 we say? But that's but but of course, a lot 425 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:42,519 of that's been forever, Like you know, bands using backing 426 00:17:42,599 --> 00:17:46,279 tracks for backing vocals for example during live shows. I mean, 427 00:17:46,319 --> 00:17:50,240 that's that's been happening for decades. So so there's nothing 428 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:53,480 new to a lot of it. But it is staggering 429 00:17:53,519 --> 00:17:56,200 to me. Something that I find kind of fun, even 430 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:58,000 though I feel a little bit guilty about it, is 431 00:17:58,559 --> 00:18:02,279 like going on YouTube and find these AI generated versions 432 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:07,519 of songs, you know, new versions like uh you know, 433 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:10,559 like like there's this one uh channel on YouTube where 434 00:18:10,559 --> 00:18:14,759 they make AI generated versions of of hard rock and 435 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:19,000 metal versions of songs from like the Backstreet Boys, the 436 00:18:19,039 --> 00:18:21,400 New kids on the block, and and the thing is, 437 00:18:21,519 --> 00:18:26,200 I listen to these and they're really good, Like they're 438 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:29,880 actually really well done and fun to listen to, and 439 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:33,960 it's like, you know, but knowing that somebody made that. Now, granted, 440 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:37,440 some of these probably they're made with prompts, but then 441 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:39,799 they're they're tweaked in certain ways. 442 00:18:39,839 --> 00:18:41,839 Speaker 2: I don't think they're I don't think it's they're. 443 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:48,640 Speaker 1: That simple, but but it is, you know, it is, Uh, 444 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:52,200 it's scary because because then it gets you to the question, 445 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:54,599 if you if you think about it this far, is 446 00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:59,240 there a use for for actual musicians at a certain point. 447 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:01,799 Speaker 2: If you can, if you can just make. 448 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:04,160 Speaker 1: AI create whatever you want, whatever it is that you, 449 00:19:04,559 --> 00:19:08,160 as an individual listener want to hear, If that's within reach, 450 00:19:08,319 --> 00:19:10,359 why do you even need other people to make music 451 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:11,240 for you to listen to? 452 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think there's definitely, you know, that's where there's 453 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:16,680 some of these. I think they had the points of 454 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:19,599 real tension that we should we can talk about, you know. 455 00:19:19,799 --> 00:19:22,039 But also that in itself is nothing new, you know, 456 00:19:22,079 --> 00:19:25,200 like there was tons of industries that would dramatically changed 457 00:19:25,279 --> 00:19:29,960 by technological progress, you know, and often no one really 458 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:35,720 cared how often people really valued the convenience over anything else, 459 00:19:35,759 --> 00:19:39,720 you know, Like my granddad worked on Liverpool Docks, and 460 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:43,519 prior to Liverpool's decline in like the seventies eighties, the 461 00:19:43,559 --> 00:19:47,960 Liverpool Docks employed thousands upon thousands of people. And not 462 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:51,680 only was there there was political things that happened in 463 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:54,279 the Satchey years that really really celestered the decline, but 464 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:58,039 besides that, you know, machinery was changed into a way 465 00:19:58,079 --> 00:20:00,279 that a job that maybe needed twenty guys to do 466 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:02,799 could now be done with one guy with a machine, right, 467 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:04,119 and there was. 468 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:05,640 Speaker 3: An inevitability to it, you know. 469 00:20:05,839 --> 00:20:09,480 Speaker 4: And even really some of the processes of globalization, you know, 470 00:20:09,559 --> 00:20:12,680 like England has no manufacturing anymore, and that was because 471 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:14,559 it was cheaper to do it somewhere else, you know, 472 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:17,640 and I guess that's happened everywhere. And you know that's 473 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:20,319 also these processes that have happened. Like part of me 474 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:22,039 kind of sees all of this is like, well, look, 475 00:20:22,079 --> 00:20:24,400 you know, we all went along with all of this. 476 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:26,240 You know, for generations, we've all gone along with all 477 00:20:26,279 --> 00:20:28,480 of this. This is this is the bed we've made, 478 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:30,640 Like we're going to hark and lie in it, you know, 479 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:32,880 and adapts to it a little bit. Maybe you know, 480 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:35,480 it's not going away, is the truth. You know, it's 481 00:20:35,519 --> 00:20:38,799 not going away. And they are positives, you know, I've 482 00:20:38,839 --> 00:20:42,079 seen recently, can't what it was coreed, but something popped 483 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:44,039 up on social media and this guy had Tuesday eyes 484 00:20:44,079 --> 00:20:48,000 to make a graphic novel. And the guy's ideas were great, 485 00:20:48,039 --> 00:20:50,559 and I was thinking, you know, like this is my thing. 486 00:20:50,599 --> 00:20:52,920 You know, Like the music industry is also like very 487 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:56,039 nepotistic these days, you know, it's very Sometimes it seems 488 00:20:56,039 --> 00:20:59,319 hemetically sealed, you know, it seems like it's an inside 489 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:02,279 this club, you know. And and and the art can 490 00:21:02,319 --> 00:21:03,960 be like that in lots of ways. And also social 491 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,279 class becomes a big barrier. You know, all the all 492 00:21:06,279 --> 00:21:10,160 the successful musicians, I know, almost always they come from 493 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:11,799 a wealthy background, you know. 494 00:21:12,559 --> 00:21:14,799 Speaker 3: And so there's. 495 00:21:14,279 --> 00:21:15,640 Speaker 4: A thing like that which is like, you know, this 496 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:18,119 guy making his graphic novel, he would not have had 497 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:22,039 the money or the backing to ever make this thing. 498 00:21:22,319 --> 00:21:24,319 But in terms of the ideas and the scenes and 499 00:21:24,319 --> 00:21:27,039 stuff he's playing with, it's very interesting, you know to me. 500 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:30,680 And I thought, well, you know what this tool has 501 00:21:30,799 --> 00:21:34,720 enabled this person who has something exceptional in the idea, 502 00:21:35,599 --> 00:21:37,519 and this thing would never have been made. And you know, 503 00:21:37,599 --> 00:21:40,200 like so often you see what the industry, whether it's 504 00:21:40,319 --> 00:21:42,640 Hollywood or anything else, is chaining out. You know, there's 505 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:44,279 for me, there's a there's been a bit of a 506 00:21:44,319 --> 00:21:47,440 decline in quality in the mainstream, you know, and partly 507 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:51,200 I think that's because of this, these these problems. 508 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:51,400 Speaker 3: You know. 509 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:53,400 Speaker 4: It's like, you know, in England, we used to produce 510 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:55,799 great bands from working class communities like Oasis. You know, 511 00:21:55,839 --> 00:21:57,519 I might have been a fan of Oasis, but I 512 00:21:57,640 --> 00:21:59,279 like it, you know, and I like what they've done. 513 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:01,440 But you know, I don't know if a band like 514 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:04,039 Oasis could could exist in this climates anymore. 515 00:22:04,079 --> 00:22:04,279 Speaker 3: You know. 516 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 1: Yeah. 517 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:06,359 Speaker 2: Interesting. 518 00:22:06,519 --> 00:22:08,400 Speaker 4: I'm not saying AI the answer to that, but I'm 519 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:10,119 just saying, look, there's a lot of problems that we're 520 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:12,960 not solving here. And actually there's some benefits to AI. 521 00:22:13,279 --> 00:22:16,640 There's an element of it which is very democratizing. You know, 522 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:18,960 he's to learn about that. You know, the idea that 523 00:22:19,039 --> 00:22:24,480 like home studios. Making home studios made music a lot 524 00:22:24,519 --> 00:22:27,000 more accessible to lots and lots of people, which everyone 525 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:29,599 champion does a great thing. It was very bad for 526 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:33,640 professional recording studios, you know, like, what do we want 527 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:35,400 to do here? You know, it's the same for musicians, 528 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:37,599 and in a lot of ways from the artist's point 529 00:22:37,599 --> 00:22:37,880 of view. 530 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:40,119 Speaker 3: You know, so often if an artist. 531 00:22:39,839 --> 00:22:44,039 Speaker 4: Wants his vision requires a violin, he has to pay 532 00:22:44,079 --> 00:22:45,640 a violin. It's not and yeah, that's great for this 533 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:48,200 sort of ecosystem with musicians and stuff. But if he's 534 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:50,480 not able to do that, he can't make the art. 535 00:22:50,559 --> 00:22:52,839 And maybe the art important, you know, maybe the art 536 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:55,079 is more important than someone getting paid. 537 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:57,720 Speaker 3: You know, I don't know, I don't know. 538 00:22:57,759 --> 00:23:00,200 Speaker 4: I'm not saying it is making the you know, going 539 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:01,759 to be wedded to that idea, And I'm just saying 540 00:23:01,799 --> 00:23:04,200 I feel like there's a bigger conversation here than than 541 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:07,160 what you often seeing from from local musicians. 542 00:23:07,519 --> 00:23:10,039 Speaker 1: Yeah, because ultimately, you know, one thing that you can't 543 00:23:10,039 --> 00:23:11,960 do is you can't hold back technology. 544 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:15,359 Speaker 3: So you can't. It's a lose. It's a losing. 545 00:23:15,559 --> 00:23:17,759 Speaker 4: It's like the old Western I always think it's like 546 00:23:17,759 --> 00:23:19,279 the old Western films. You know, you get this old 547 00:23:19,319 --> 00:23:23,079 cowboy and it's super romantic and the railroads coming through 548 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:26,119 the town, you know, and he's like holding onto the 549 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:26,720 old ways. 550 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:28,119 Speaker 3: And we love it. 551 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 4: It's romantic. It's like we want him to you know. 552 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,799 Ultimately it's the cowboys are over, you know, right right, 553 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:36,480 or like you know, like medieval nights. I used to 554 00:23:36,519 --> 00:23:38,279 think that was the most romantic thing in the world. 555 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:40,519 Was like a guy having a soord fight, you know, 556 00:23:40,799 --> 00:23:43,599 and then someone invites invents a gun, and it's like, well, 557 00:23:44,079 --> 00:23:45,519 you know, a different game now. 558 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:48,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, but yeah you can't, yeah, you can't hold it back, 559 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:49,920 and it's uh uh. 560 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:51,160 Speaker 2: So all you can do. 561 00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:55,599 Speaker 1: And you know, the music industry I think already learned 562 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,319 this lesson once, maybe not well enough, you know, because 563 00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:00,000 I remember when you know, I'm old enough to remember, 564 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:03,119 or when when Napster first sappened, and you know, and 565 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,200 everybody in the music industry was freaking out, Oh you 566 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,960 can just fileshare, you can all this music is free. 567 00:24:07,799 --> 00:24:10,079 Speaker 2: Now, you know, what, what what are we going to do? 568 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:11,720 Speaker 1: You know, because at the time I was working for 569 00:24:11,799 --> 00:24:14,599 I was a manager for a retail chain here and 570 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:18,759 here in the States called Strawberries, which later became absorbed 571 00:24:18,799 --> 00:24:22,000 into another larger music retail chain. But that was but 572 00:24:22,039 --> 00:24:24,799 that there was panic, I mean, there was absolute panic 573 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:27,799 in the industry and the company that I worked for. 574 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:29,759 It was like, well, why are people going to come 575 00:24:29,759 --> 00:24:30,839 in and buy CDs now? 576 00:24:31,799 --> 00:24:34,160 Speaker 3: You know, yeah, yeah, exactly exactly, you know so. 577 00:24:34,319 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 1: But but you can't. You can't stop it, you can't 578 00:24:37,039 --> 00:24:39,240 hold it back. All you can do is adapt and 579 00:24:39,599 --> 00:24:43,240 try to figure it out. And I think, I think, 580 00:24:43,319 --> 00:24:45,559 but I think we're at another inflection point with that. 581 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:47,839 You know, we can't hold it back, so we got 582 00:24:47,839 --> 00:24:50,079 to just figure it out, you. 583 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 3: Know, And yeah, you got to decide what what it means. 584 00:24:52,039 --> 00:24:54,519 Speaker 4: You know, yeah, I guess, like, you know, I kind 585 00:24:54,559 --> 00:24:56,680 of I respect, I'm not going to say pass. And 586 00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:58,160 I see a lot of people who are sort of 587 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:00,359 trying to draw a line in the sun and saying 588 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:02,400 we're gonna we're gonna keep this. You know, we're gonna, 589 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:05,680 you know, people who mess around with AI, We're gonna 590 00:25:05,759 --> 00:25:06,440 kind of gate keeping them. 591 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:07,839 Speaker 3: We're gonna say, you know, no, that's not cool. 592 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,799 Speaker 4: You know, we're gonna we're gonna ostracize it in some 593 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:14,599 way or you know, close ranks. And I'm like, yeah, cool, 594 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:16,680 you know, like make your stand. But you might just 595 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,960 be that old cowboy, you know, right, you're gonna get railroaded, 596 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:24,000 you know, And really like, like I said, I really think, 597 00:25:24,039 --> 00:25:27,559 like I really think if you if you can try 598 00:25:27,599 --> 00:25:30,680 and get back to the art form more because you know, 599 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:33,119 so much music now is just commodity. You know, so 600 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:35,720 much pop music, you know, the Sabrina Carpenter stuff is 601 00:25:35,759 --> 00:25:38,240 just commodity. Like there's not I mean, it's interesting in 602 00:25:38,279 --> 00:25:40,240 a way. Popular culture is always interested in as a 603 00:25:40,279 --> 00:25:43,240 way of understanding society, you know, and where it's at. 604 00:25:43,799 --> 00:25:45,559 But as far as I can see it where it's at, 605 00:25:45,559 --> 00:25:48,240 it's not a great place already. And a lot of 606 00:25:48,279 --> 00:25:51,599 the art is just commodity. And it's really difficult because 607 00:25:51,599 --> 00:25:53,200 you know, at least in like the sixties and stuff, 608 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,359 you know, some of the popular stuff that was breaking 609 00:25:56,400 --> 00:26:00,799 through was was really artistically viable, you know, like Dylan, 610 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,759 Bob Dylan, I mean he's writing lyrics in those early 611 00:26:03,839 --> 00:26:05,559 years that are up there with like T s Elliot 612 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:06,279 and all these poets. 613 00:26:06,279 --> 00:26:06,440 Speaker 3: You know. 614 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:08,799 Speaker 4: It's like, yeah, you know, And that's what I think 615 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:13,319 is like a I will be able to replace Sabrina Carpenter, 616 00:26:13,559 --> 00:26:15,119 but I'm not sure he could replace Bob Dunna. 617 00:26:16,079 --> 00:26:17,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good point for the. 618 00:26:17,599 --> 00:26:18,279 Speaker 3: Next Bob doing. 619 00:26:18,319 --> 00:26:20,240 Speaker 4: The next Bob done you know, whatever the future version 620 00:26:20,279 --> 00:26:22,759 of of a great artist is, I'm not sure it'll 621 00:26:22,759 --> 00:26:24,640 be able to do that. I think it will always 622 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:29,279 be playing catch up too, you know, those sorts of humans, 623 00:26:29,279 --> 00:26:29,559 you know. 624 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,079 Speaker 1: Yeah, because without everything that came before it, it has 625 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:34,079 nothing to draw from, so it needs. 626 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:37,720 Speaker 4: Exactly Yeah, so maybe it'll drive innovation and it'll ye 627 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,519 And also, you know, I find it, you know, even locally, 628 00:26:42,319 --> 00:26:45,920 like you know, I'm not trying to to break into 629 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:48,519 some pop thing or to be a mainstream thing at all. 630 00:26:48,559 --> 00:26:50,799 Speaker 3: You know, I don't really think it's viable for me, but. 631 00:26:50,799 --> 00:26:54,519 Speaker 4: I certainly have found there's still a lot of people 632 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:58,680 who are who are looking for something, you know, the 633 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,319 maybe is trying to be a little bit more artsy 634 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:06,839 or something, you know, and there's still a place for. 635 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:10,640 Speaker 3: It, you know. Yeah, And you know it's maybe it'll 636 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:11,319 carry on like that. 637 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,559 Speaker 4: You know, maybe it'll be something that forced people to 638 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,920 really think about what does matter in a work of art. 639 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:19,839 And if you really don't like the idea that a 640 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,079 computer is making it, well, what do you like about 641 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:24,359 the fact that it's a human making it? And you know, 642 00:27:24,599 --> 00:27:26,839 maybe we have to start actually making some distinctions, you know, 643 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:27,519 I think. 644 00:27:27,319 --> 00:27:30,200 Speaker 3: That's gonna happen. But you know, it's an interesting thing 645 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:30,720 to think about. 646 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,480 Speaker 1: It is it is, it's it's a very interesting time 647 00:27:33,519 --> 00:27:37,759 to be alive. That's that's for sure. Well, Paul, this 648 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:41,079 has been wonderful. I love the album. I do want 649 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:43,400 so I'm going to count for absolutely. So I'm going 650 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:45,200 to kind of put you on the spot here because 651 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:47,839 in a moment after we let you go, I'm going 652 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,200 to play another track from the album to close out 653 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:54,240 the segment. But obviously we did play the single Nebukodnezzer 654 00:27:54,279 --> 00:27:57,000 to open. But what song would you like us to 655 00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:58,440 play at the end of our conversation. 656 00:28:00,799 --> 00:28:01,640 Speaker 3: There's there's two. 657 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:05,079 Speaker 4: You know, I have some conflicted feelings on the album. 658 00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:07,319 There's a lot of things that didn't quite it's a 659 00:28:07,319 --> 00:28:10,960 difficult times, to be totally honest with you. A lot 660 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:12,640 of health problems while I was trying to make it 661 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:17,200 and stuff. Yeah, and just a lot of complex things, 662 00:28:17,279 --> 00:28:21,359 you know. But but you know, there's a few bets 663 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,400 that came out. I think there's one song called why 664 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:27,599 Go Home, and there's this song there called linger On, 665 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:29,759 And I think those ones that are interesting to me, 666 00:28:29,839 --> 00:28:32,200 maybe not the the catches or anything. But I think 667 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:34,839 they they're the ones that came out that I really like, you. 668 00:28:34,759 --> 00:28:37,400 Speaker 3: Know, you know what I have The album just has 669 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:38,599 too many styles. 670 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:40,359 Speaker 4: On it, you know, I seem to be something, honest, Yeah, 671 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:42,680 my health was getting so bad I started this is 672 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,759 so dramatically, so typical of an artist. I'm a lot better. 673 00:28:45,839 --> 00:28:47,599 Know by the time, I thought that, you know, I 674 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:52,240 might make this album and just die, you know. Yeah, 675 00:28:52,279 --> 00:28:55,200 well no, because I'm still alive, you know, but yeah, 676 00:28:56,319 --> 00:29:01,319 being a dramatic artist, you know. But yeah, you know, 677 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:02,559 like I was, I was just kind of like, well, 678 00:29:02,599 --> 00:29:04,279 you know what, I'm just going to record all my 679 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:06,559 favorite songs that I never recorded over the last ten years, 680 00:29:06,559 --> 00:29:08,000 and I'm just gonna put them all on there. And 681 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,160 maybe that should have been three EP's or something. Stylistically, 682 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:14,440 it's a bit all over the place, but yeah, I 683 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:16,599 Go Homes a nice country track, and linger On's kind 684 00:29:16,599 --> 00:29:20,000 of like a weird little pop pop sort of folky thing. 685 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,599 Speaker 3: I don't know, I'll have time. 686 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:24,759 Speaker 2: I'm actually I'll play both of them. I'll play both 687 00:29:24,759 --> 00:29:24,960 of them. 688 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:25,359 Speaker 1: At the end of. 689 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:28,559 Speaker 3: I wasn't hanging for that. I just couldn't decide. 690 00:29:28,759 --> 00:29:31,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's that's okay. No, I'll play both of them. 691 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:31,559 We'll have time. 692 00:29:31,599 --> 00:29:34,200 Speaker 2: I would love to awesome, Paul. 693 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:36,319 Speaker 1: Where's the best place for people to go online to 694 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:38,240 keep up with everything that you are doing. 695 00:29:40,559 --> 00:29:44,359 Speaker 4: So right now? Just YouTube? Man or Spotify? I guess 696 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:49,440 you know, I have a Facebook. I don't really engagement 697 00:29:49,519 --> 00:29:51,359 with social media right now. I'm kind of like I 698 00:29:51,359 --> 00:29:53,799 had some problems with Instagram and it closed down the accounts, 699 00:29:53,799 --> 00:29:56,640 which was quite oh really a lot of followers on there? Yeah, yeah, 700 00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:58,480 I had a lot of followers on there. But I also, 701 00:29:59,279 --> 00:30:01,000 as you can tell me thoughts on a I am 702 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:02,440 sort of in a place where I'm sort of trying 703 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:04,680 to figure out what it all means. 704 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,839 Speaker 3: Man. Yeah, I'm just trying to figure out what where 705 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:08,279 to go next. 706 00:30:08,359 --> 00:30:11,279 Speaker 4: And I think i'd like to maybe start building on YouTube, 707 00:30:11,319 --> 00:30:12,759 you know, especially when I do this new thing. I 708 00:30:12,799 --> 00:30:14,240 was saying, I'm going to go to the Southwest and 709 00:30:14,279 --> 00:30:18,559 do a channel Paul McCartney's RAMI hangout on a farm 710 00:30:18,559 --> 00:30:21,119 and make music on YouTube. 711 00:30:21,279 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 3: Yeah. I think I pall on YouTube and film a 712 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:23,519 lot of stuff. 713 00:30:25,119 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 4: So you could subscribe on YouTube or That'll probably be 714 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:29,799 the one for now, and then at some point they'll 715 00:30:29,839 --> 00:30:33,160 be there'll be more socials when I'm here with the 716 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:33,759 next project. 717 00:30:34,039 --> 00:30:38,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, out outstanding, outstanding. All right, well, Paul Nazoli, No 718 00:30:39,039 --> 00:30:40,799 that's not right, is it? 719 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:40,960 Speaker 3: Ill man? 720 00:30:42,279 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 2: How do I say it? 721 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 3: Nas? 722 00:30:44,799 --> 00:30:45,759 Speaker 2: Nas nas? 723 00:30:46,359 --> 00:30:48,759 Speaker 1: Okay, thank you, and I'm sorry for butchering your name. 724 00:30:48,839 --> 00:30:49,440 I'm in America. 725 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:55,359 Speaker 3: I don't worry. We don't mostly in Liverpool. I understand 726 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:56,000 it used to be. 727 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,039 Speaker 2: Well, Paul, thank you so much for joining us. This 728 00:31:01,079 --> 00:31:02,720 has been wonderful. We will definitely have to do that 729 00:31:02,839 --> 00:31:05,119 on Absolutely, we'll have to do this again in the future. 730 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:07,759 Speaker 1: And yeah, we're gonna we're gonna play both of those 731 00:31:07,799 --> 00:31:09,640 tracks from the self titled album. 732 00:31:10,279 --> 00:31:11,480 Speaker 2: Very very very cool. 733 00:31:11,519 --> 00:31:12,799 Speaker 1: I listened to the whole thing and I love it 734 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:17,480 so great great, absolutely, so we'll hit those tracks. We'll 735 00:31:17,519 --> 00:31:19,079 let you go for now, Paul, thank you so much, 736 00:31:19,079 --> 00:31:20,000 and we'll talk again soon. 737 00:31:20,039 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 2: I'm sure. 738 00:31:20,839 --> 00:31:22,880 Speaker 3: All right, thanks a lot. 739 00:31:22,559 --> 00:31:25,240 Speaker 1: You got it YouTube, bye bye, all right, wonderful. So 740 00:31:25,279 --> 00:31:27,119 we're gonna play We're gonna go ahead and play both 741 00:31:27,119 --> 00:31:28,920 of these. By the way, if you are listening live, 742 00:31:29,359 --> 00:31:32,119 stick around if you are listening on Saturday, because in 743 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:34,599 the third hour, gen X is gonna be joining us 744 00:31:34,599 --> 00:31:37,799 from the band generations and really looking forward to talking 745 00:31:37,839 --> 00:31:38,160 with her. 746 00:31:38,279 --> 00:31:39,440 Speaker 2: But yeah, we'll play. 747 00:31:39,519 --> 00:31:41,960 Speaker 1: Uh, we'll play both of these. Let's do this one first. 748 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:43,799 This is called Why Go Home.