WEBVTT 1 00:00:09.080 --> 00:00:14.919 This is a studio both and production. As you know, 2 00:00:15.119 --> 00:00:19.679 we are celebrating my tenth year in podcasting and we're 3 00:00:19.679 --> 00:00:22.879 capping that celebration off with a three day event here 4 00:00:22.960 --> 00:00:26.199 in the Berkshires over the weekend of September twenty fifth. 5 00:00:26.280 --> 00:00:30.679 There will be studio sessions, live shows, a Bravo town hall, 6 00:00:30.879 --> 00:00:35.520 Berkshire activities like foraging, wine tasting, museum visits and more, 7 00:00:35.679 --> 00:00:38.439 and tons of special guests. Will do the Karen and 8 00:00:38.479 --> 00:00:42.039 Ellen Letters Live starring Amanda Jacobson from Wine and Crime, 9 00:00:42.359 --> 00:00:47.079 Tawny plattis famous renowned voice actress, and Chris Brayton from 10 00:00:47.079 --> 00:00:51.159 the More Gooder Than podcast. I'll be doing a very special, 11 00:00:51.359 --> 00:00:56.000 first time ever live show of the Pact with special 12 00:00:56.039 --> 00:00:59.600 guest Patrick Hines from True Crime Obsessed. We'll do a 13 00:00:59.640 --> 00:01:04.959 panel discussion on Unsafe Spaces featuring me, Kaz, Charlie Wirrel 14 00:01:05.000 --> 00:01:08.359 from Crime Lines, and Justin and Aaron from Generation Why. 15 00:01:08.760 --> 00:01:12.439 There will even be a live episode of Our Americana 16 00:01:12.680 --> 00:01:17.599 and a very cool Playlist by TCB episode featuring me 17 00:01:17.920 --> 00:01:20.480 and the entire research team. Guests, we'll get to check 18 00:01:20.480 --> 00:01:23.480 out my new speakeasy, the green Room, tour the studio 19 00:01:23.799 --> 00:01:27.040 and get elbow deep in the research process. This is 20 00:01:27.079 --> 00:01:29.159 a once in a lifetime event where you'll get to 21 00:01:29.439 --> 00:01:33.439 enjoy the berkshers, share fun activities with the podcast hosts 22 00:01:33.439 --> 00:01:37.239 you love the most, and really dig into podcasting and 23 00:01:37.319 --> 00:01:40.799 all the shows I have produced along with my friends. 24 00:01:41.159 --> 00:01:43.519 Book your tickets today by clicking the link in the 25 00:01:43.599 --> 00:01:46.319 show notes. And if that doesn't work for you, why 26 00:01:46.359 --> 00:01:50.200 don't you think about? If not now when? For example, 27 00:01:50.599 --> 00:01:54.799 we are going to the Galapagos Islands January eleventh through seventeenth. 28 00:01:54.959 --> 00:01:57.599 Haven't you always wanted to go? And if not now, 29 00:01:58.040 --> 00:02:01.040 when will you go? And wouldn't you go during the 30 00:02:01.079 --> 00:02:04.040 winter here in the States to escape to the warmth 31 00:02:04.519 --> 00:02:08.719 with like minded new friends who love true crime bullshit 32 00:02:08.759 --> 00:02:11.879 as much as you do, but also love the experience 33 00:02:11.919 --> 00:02:15.199 of travel, seeing animals and getting away from it all. 34 00:02:15.280 --> 00:02:19.080 These Trova trips have made me lifelong friends. They are 35 00:02:19.159 --> 00:02:21.919 such a great way to meet new people, get out 36 00:02:21.919 --> 00:02:25.680 of your world and shake things up. And like I said, 37 00:02:25.879 --> 00:02:27.759 if you're not going to go to the Galopagos now, 38 00:02:28.280 --> 00:02:31.879 will you ever? Book your trip today by clicking the 39 00:02:31.919 --> 00:02:34.840 link in the show notes, And now here's the show. 40 00:02:40.520 --> 00:02:43.840 Listening to the first episode of True crime bullshit is 41 00:02:43.879 --> 00:02:48.919 an odd and often emotional experience for me. There was 42 00:02:48.960 --> 00:02:50.840 a lot going on in my life at the time, 43 00:02:51.759 --> 00:02:54.560 a lot that heavily impacted my work on the show 44 00:02:55.120 --> 00:02:59.800 and what the first episode would eventually become. Hell, who 45 00:02:59.800 --> 00:03:04.280 I would eventually become. I guess as a whole, I'm 46 00:03:04.319 --> 00:03:08.400 neither disappointed with nor proud of the episode. I think 47 00:03:08.400 --> 00:03:13.039 it asked some very tough and important questions, perhaps questions 48 00:03:13.080 --> 00:03:15.960 that people weren't really willing to challenge themselves with at 49 00:03:15.960 --> 00:03:20.479 the time, thus the very strong pushback I got. I 50 00:03:20.479 --> 00:03:23.639 think in the following ten years are feelings surrounding and 51 00:03:23.680 --> 00:03:27.280 the complexities of true crime have changed and become much 52 00:03:27.280 --> 00:03:32.919 more nuanced. But back in twenty eighteen, people recoiled at 53 00:03:32.919 --> 00:03:38.439 me asking whether Keys deserved empathy. People were incensed that 54 00:03:38.560 --> 00:03:42.000 I was deliberately referring to Keys as Izzy, the name 55 00:03:42.039 --> 00:03:46.000 he went by and was referred to, and people were 56 00:03:46.039 --> 00:03:49.120 annoyed that I was asking about the general public's interest 57 00:03:49.240 --> 00:03:53.319 in and commercialization of true crime, despite the fact that 58 00:03:53.400 --> 00:03:56.560 they were both things I was explicitly doing at the 59 00:03:56.599 --> 00:03:59.879 time and continue to. There was, also, of course, the 60 00:04:00.120 --> 00:04:03.360 fact that I was openly gay and discussed being assaulted, 61 00:04:03.560 --> 00:04:08.400 albeit very briefly. On the podcast. People made opportunities of 62 00:04:08.439 --> 00:04:13.120 this to unleash their most vile homophobia onto me in emails, comments, 63 00:04:13.159 --> 00:04:17.800 and podcast reviews. I was accused of being in love 64 00:04:17.920 --> 00:04:21.720 with and or wanting to fuck Israel Keys, a dead 65 00:04:21.839 --> 00:04:24.959 serial killer. I was told I was too much of 66 00:04:25.000 --> 00:04:30.680 a pussy to truly tell this story. The word faggot, 67 00:04:31.120 --> 00:04:35.040 very frequently misspelled, came up a lot on social media 68 00:04:35.199 --> 00:04:38.759 and in my email. But digging so deep into what 69 00:04:38.839 --> 00:04:42.079 true crime was and being so open about who I 70 00:04:42.360 --> 00:04:45.959 was were never part of the original outline of the show. 71 00:04:47.000 --> 00:04:49.240 When I made the decision to tell the Key story 72 00:04:49.279 --> 00:04:52.920 back in twenty sixteen, it was going to be exactly 73 00:04:53.040 --> 00:04:59.519 that a retelling. But then life made some unexpected changes 74 00:04:59.600 --> 00:05:07.720 to me and my approach. In mid twenty sixteen, I 75 00:05:07.759 --> 00:05:11.560 started pouring myself into the Keys case. I was spending 76 00:05:11.560 --> 00:05:15.439 about ten hours a day every day listening and re 77 00:05:15.600 --> 00:05:19.519 listening to his FBI interviews. When I wasn't doing that, 78 00:05:19.879 --> 00:05:22.360 I was on Namous in the Charlie Project for hours 79 00:05:22.360 --> 00:05:27.279 at a time. I was taking notes, making maps, reading 80 00:05:27.319 --> 00:05:32.800 about psychopathy and profiling and crime. We'd moved to Brooklyn, 81 00:05:32.800 --> 00:05:36.199 in October of twenty fifteen, and despite trying my hardest, 82 00:05:36.560 --> 00:05:38.839 I could never really make a life for myself there. 83 00:05:39.759 --> 00:05:43.680 What I'd learned years later in Therapy Betterhelp dot Com 84 00:05:43.720 --> 00:05:47.040 slash TCB was that New York City was essentially a 85 00:05:47.079 --> 00:05:52.319 powder keg for my CPTSD. Anytime I left our bedstae apartment, 86 00:05:52.879 --> 00:05:57.920 I was overcome by, sometimes even paralyzing anxiety. I started 87 00:05:57.920 --> 00:06:02.399 developing nervous tics, weird fixations on the zippers of my coats, 88 00:06:02.959 --> 00:06:07.120 picking at my fingernails, being hypervigilant when out in public. 89 00:06:08.519 --> 00:06:12.199 I was nervous all the time. So I stayed in 90 00:06:13.040 --> 00:06:18.120 and I worked on the podcast, and so the majority 91 00:06:18.160 --> 00:06:21.959 of my waking hours were spent with Israel Keys in 92 00:06:22.000 --> 00:06:27.120 his interviews, dissecting his words, searching for answers, looking for 93 00:06:27.160 --> 00:06:32.199 potential victims, trying to make connections day in and day out, 94 00:06:33.720 --> 00:06:41.319 often ten to fourteen hours a day, every day. And 95 00:06:41.399 --> 00:06:47.240 then I had a mental health emergency. I woke up 96 00:06:47.240 --> 00:06:51.439 in a hospital bed at Woodhall Hospital, and upon waking up, 97 00:06:51.519 --> 00:06:54.519 was almost immediately rushed to the psychiatric ward for what 98 00:06:54.560 --> 00:06:58.480 would be a twenty four hour hold. Of course, no 99 00:06:58.480 --> 00:07:01.639 one would tell me that at the time I didn't 100 00:07:01.639 --> 00:07:04.160 know where I was being taken or that I'd be 101 00:07:04.240 --> 00:07:08.240 there for the next twenty four hours. Those twenty four 102 00:07:08.279 --> 00:07:11.319 hours would easily become the worst twenty four hours of 103 00:07:11.360 --> 00:07:15.680 my life. The psych ward at Woodhall is essentially two 104 00:07:15.759 --> 00:07:20.279 giant rooms, one that is mostly empty and another with 105 00:07:20.360 --> 00:07:24.959 a TV and about ten beds. There were probably twenty 106 00:07:25.079 --> 00:07:28.680 or so other patients in there at the time, and 107 00:07:28.759 --> 00:07:31.879 there was nowhere to clean yourself, nothing to brush your 108 00:07:31.879 --> 00:07:37.000 teeth with. Bathroom use was observed, and the staff didn't 109 00:07:37.040 --> 00:07:40.480 talk to you other than a five minute meeting with 110 00:07:40.519 --> 00:07:46.079 a psychologist. On the television for the duration of my 111 00:07:46.160 --> 00:07:50.959 stay was a blind Spot marathon. Yes, they were blaring 112 00:07:51.279 --> 00:07:57.120 a psychological crime thriller in the psych ward. I took 113 00:07:57.160 --> 00:08:00.720 the soul available bed and waited, still not knowing how 114 00:08:00.720 --> 00:08:03.319 long I'd be there or even why I was there. 115 00:08:04.439 --> 00:08:06.680 I worried that at some point someone would try to 116 00:08:06.720 --> 00:08:10.680 take that bed from me. I closed my eyes, tried 117 00:08:10.680 --> 00:08:14.040 to block out the TV, and just listened to everything 118 00:08:14.120 --> 00:08:20.720 else happening around me. Out of both fear and self preservation, 119 00:08:23.759 --> 00:08:26.879 no one in the facility was allowed to take outside medication, 120 00:08:27.720 --> 00:08:30.639 and what that resulted in the absolute worst part of 121 00:08:30.639 --> 00:08:34.759 those twenty four hours was listening to people arrive in coherence. 122 00:08:35.720 --> 00:08:43.799 Although often coherent distress slowly devolve into madness, psychosis, paranoia. 123 00:08:45.080 --> 00:08:50.600 People who arrived lucid at hour one or two were screaming, crying, 124 00:08:50.960 --> 00:08:55.519 fighting by hour four or five. And this happened over 125 00:08:55.600 --> 00:08:59.600 and over again. I got out of my bed exactly 126 00:08:59.639 --> 00:09:03.240 three time, once to go to the bathroom, once to 127 00:09:03.279 --> 00:09:06.799 eat a cheese sandwich. I hate cheese, but knew if 128 00:09:06.840 --> 00:09:09.720 I did anything that could be perceived as abnormal or 129 00:09:09.799 --> 00:09:12.200 unhealthy that it would likely mean I'd have to spend 130 00:09:12.240 --> 00:09:15.559 even more time there. And then finally, when Andrew was 131 00:09:15.600 --> 00:09:19.519 given clearance to visit, I will never for the rest 132 00:09:19.559 --> 00:09:22.320 of my life forget how distressed and upset he looked. 133 00:09:22.320 --> 00:09:22.759 That night. 134 00:09:24.039 --> 00:09:26.919 I spent twenty four hours with an intimate view of 135 00:09:26.960 --> 00:09:31.720 both mental distress and our mental health system, specifically how 136 00:09:31.799 --> 00:09:35.720 broken it is. And when I finally got to leave 137 00:09:36.240 --> 00:09:39.679 at about eleven a m. The following morning, I left 138 00:09:39.759 --> 00:09:43.559 more shell shocked and distressed than I was when I entered. 139 00:09:45.480 --> 00:09:48.799 I stayed in bed for the next two days, and 140 00:09:48.840 --> 00:09:53.000 we never told anyone other than very close family. In fact, 141 00:09:53.879 --> 00:09:56.960 this is the very first time I'm publicly speaking about it, 142 00:09:58.159 --> 00:10:00.799 and it's the first time in years I've spoken about 143 00:10:00.799 --> 00:10:04.120 it at all. When I eventually got out of bed, 144 00:10:04.600 --> 00:10:08.159 I spent a lot of time evaluating my life, my choices, 145 00:10:08.279 --> 00:10:13.360 my relationships, my priorities. I investigated how I could exist 146 00:10:13.440 --> 00:10:19.799 and thrive. I spent hours picking apart my past and 147 00:10:20.279 --> 00:10:22.679 all the decisions and roads that got me to where 148 00:10:22.679 --> 00:10:26.879 I was. I tried desperately to come to terms with 149 00:10:27.000 --> 00:10:29.559 how the me that I knew could be the me 150 00:10:29.720 --> 00:10:33.159 that ended up in that place. And when I started 151 00:10:33.159 --> 00:10:36.159 to get back to work on the podcast, I had 152 00:10:36.159 --> 00:10:39.799 some really tough questions for myself. How do I straddle 153 00:10:39.879 --> 00:10:43.159 the dichoticmy of my obsession as both a path toward 154 00:10:43.240 --> 00:10:48.600 personal fulfillment and one of self harm? Why was I 155 00:10:48.919 --> 00:10:54.360 Why are we so willing to let darkness in? How 156 00:10:54.399 --> 00:10:57.279 can I do this thing that simultaneously makes me so 157 00:10:57.440 --> 00:11:03.440 happy and so anxious? And that's how episode one became 158 00:11:03.480 --> 00:11:06.879 what it is. I needed to tell this story that 159 00:11:06.919 --> 00:11:10.679 I'd spent so much time with Gamble my mental health, 160 00:11:10.720 --> 00:11:15.039 for the work I'd invested myself in, but I also 161 00:11:15.120 --> 00:11:20.679 needed to understand and discuss our obsession with darkness. I 162 00:11:20.759 --> 00:11:23.440 needed to know what true crime was doing to us 163 00:11:24.159 --> 00:11:30.519 individually and writ large. I also knew that I needed 164 00:11:30.559 --> 00:11:35.639 to live with radical honesty and transparency. I couldn't hold 165 00:11:35.679 --> 00:11:40.080 things in anymore for fear of burdening or discomforting others. 166 00:11:40.480 --> 00:11:44.440 I couldn't live in shame anymore. I had to articulate 167 00:11:44.519 --> 00:11:48.519 my suffering in a way that emancipated me and inspired 168 00:11:48.559 --> 00:11:54.360 and empowered others. Less than a year later, I pressed 169 00:11:54.440 --> 00:11:59.480 publish on that first episode of True Crime. Bullshit. It 170 00:11:59.519 --> 00:12:04.679 belonged to the world. Now to a lesser extent, so 171 00:12:04.799 --> 00:12:12.440 did I, for better and worse, and now so does this. 172 00:12:23.039 --> 00:12:27.759 I am turning forty five this year, which is harder 173 00:12:27.799 --> 00:12:30.840 to say than it is to feel, because at this 174 00:12:31.120 --> 00:12:35.519 age you feel everything. You spend all day taking care 175 00:12:35.559 --> 00:12:40.919 of everyone else, work, life, pets, partners, and you realize 176 00:12:41.279 --> 00:12:48.679 that how you sleep actually affects everything, energy, mood, focus, health. 177 00:12:49.200 --> 00:12:52.600 At some point, you stop chasing trends and just want 178 00:12:52.639 --> 00:12:56.120 to invest in comfort that lasts and makes every day 179 00:12:56.200 --> 00:12:59.440 feel as great as it can. Bowl and Branch Betting 180 00:12:59.519 --> 00:13:03.039 is designed for exactly that kind of rest. From their 181 00:13:03.080 --> 00:13:08.039 signature organic cotton sheets to plush pillows, breathable blankets, and 182 00:13:08.080 --> 00:13:12.120 temperature regulating comforters. Everything is made to create a bed 183 00:13:12.200 --> 00:13:17.320 that truly supports good sleep. It's incredibly soft, breathable, and 184 00:13:17.399 --> 00:13:19.799 built to get better over time. It's a kind of 185 00:13:19.879 --> 00:13:23.799 sleep you don't compromise on anymore. A lot of customers 186 00:13:23.840 --> 00:13:26.159 start with the sheets, but once they feel them, they 187 00:13:26.240 --> 00:13:30.120 upgrade the whole bed. I started with the sheets and 188 00:13:30.200 --> 00:13:33.000 a blanket, and I will tell you the sheets have 189 00:13:33.120 --> 00:13:37.320 improved my sleep and thus my days so much. They 190 00:13:37.360 --> 00:13:42.039 never get overly hot or sticky or itchy. They're silky 191 00:13:42.120 --> 00:13:47.200 soft and incredibly breathable, and make falling asleep and staying 192 00:13:47.240 --> 00:13:50.679 asleep so much easier than before. If you're like me 193 00:13:50.919 --> 00:13:54.159 and good sleep is an imperative part of a good day, 194 00:13:54.759 --> 00:13:59.320 I cannot recommend Bowlin Branches signature organic cotton sheets enough, 195 00:13:59.559 --> 00:14:02.759 especially now in the summer, when it's hot outside and 196 00:14:02.799 --> 00:14:05.759 you want to stay cool at night in bed. Upgrade 197 00:14:05.840 --> 00:14:09.360 your sleep with Bowlin Branch. Get fifteen percent off your 198 00:14:09.399 --> 00:14:14.200 first order plus free shipping at Bowlandbranch dot com. Slash 199 00:14:14.279 --> 00:14:19.080 true Crime BS with code true Crime BS. That's Bowl 200 00:14:19.200 --> 00:14:23.320 End Branch b O L L A N D. Branch 201 00:14:23.759 --> 00:14:29.120 dot com slash true crime bs code true crime bs 202 00:14:29.240 --> 00:14:32.480 to unlock fifteen percent off exclusions apply. 203 00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:37.919 My concern the problem is nowadays, the more stuff my 204 00:14:38.039 --> 00:14:40.840 name is attached to, the more likely it is that 205 00:14:41.639 --> 00:14:44.440 somebody's going to try to do some kind of stupid 206 00:14:44.480 --> 00:14:47.320 frickin' TV special or you know, you know how it 207 00:14:47.399 --> 00:14:50.720 is nowadays like the oldest true crime bullshit that people 208 00:14:50.759 --> 00:14:51.519 are obsessed with. 209 00:14:54.200 --> 00:14:58.600 This is true crime bullshit. I'm your host, Josh Hallmark, 210 00:14:59.240 --> 00:15:06.840 and this is a serialized story of Israel Keys. It 211 00:15:06.919 --> 00:15:09.480 started when I was a kid, you see, I grew 212 00:15:09.559 --> 00:15:12.360 up in the San Francisco Bay area in the nineteen eighties, 213 00:15:13.480 --> 00:15:16.639 on the heels of the Zodiac, the massacre at Jonestown, 214 00:15:17.240 --> 00:15:20.799 the murderers of Leonard Lake and Charles Ing, back when 215 00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:25.080 unsolved mysteries and America's most wanted were becoming primetime staples. 216 00:15:25.519 --> 00:15:27.480 I guess you could say true crime has always been 217 00:15:27.519 --> 00:15:31.399 a cultural touch point for my generation. Of course, up 218 00:15:31.480 --> 00:15:34.720 until recently it was mostly only talked about with hushed 219 00:15:34.759 --> 00:15:37.320 tones in the backs of bars with your weird friends. 220 00:15:38.600 --> 00:15:43.720 And then podcasts and investigation discovery created a community. Who 221 00:15:43.840 --> 00:15:46.600 killed Hayman Lee? And what happened to Mora Murray became 222 00:15:46.720 --> 00:15:51.240 water cooler debates, and over time we all became more 223 00:15:51.279 --> 00:15:56.799 and more comfortable casually talking about murder. That's actually where 224 00:15:56.799 --> 00:16:00.799 I first heard about Israel Keys at the office coffeemaker. 225 00:16:01.639 --> 00:16:03.759 I had just started a new job in Seattle and 226 00:16:03.840 --> 00:16:07.840 quickly went about identifying my own weird murder friend. I 227 00:16:07.840 --> 00:16:10.080 don't exactly remember how we came out to each other, 228 00:16:10.120 --> 00:16:13.799 but we soon found ourselves deconstructing episodes of disappeared each 229 00:16:13.840 --> 00:16:17.600 Tuesday morning over our cubicle walls. We were both fascinated 230 00:16:17.639 --> 00:16:22.279 by disappearances, how someone could just vanish. We're trained to 231 00:16:22.360 --> 00:16:26.320 crave answers and tidy conclusions, and I think that's why 232 00:16:26.399 --> 00:16:30.000 these cases can so easily become obsessions. We need to 233 00:16:30.039 --> 00:16:33.519 know what happened. And that's how she knew I'd be 234 00:16:33.720 --> 00:16:37.720 just as terrified of Israel as she was. He'd just 235 00:16:37.759 --> 00:16:40.679 been arrested, and while his identity had been concealed from 236 00:16:40.679 --> 00:16:43.360 most of the world, his roots in Seattle led to 237 00:16:43.480 --> 00:16:46.240 enough local chatter that a story made his way to 238 00:16:46.360 --> 00:16:49.759 our desks. In an attempt to get information about his 239 00:16:49.840 --> 00:16:52.960 other crimes, the FBI made a deal with Israel that 240 00:16:53.000 --> 00:16:55.679 they wouldn't release his name to the media as long 241 00:16:55.720 --> 00:16:58.639 as he continued to work with them. We'll get into 242 00:16:58.639 --> 00:17:02.000 this deal more in futureppes. But if you hadn't heard 243 00:17:02.039 --> 00:17:06.440 of him before now, well this is probably why very 244 00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:10.319 little is actually known about Israel's crimes. As we'll explore, 245 00:17:10.359 --> 00:17:13.880 he was incredibly meticulous in concealing his activities and avoiding 246 00:17:13.920 --> 00:17:17.160 being caught. Essentially, we knew he was a serial killer 247 00:17:17.279 --> 00:17:20.759 with victims all across the country who killed it random. 248 00:17:21.400 --> 00:17:25.319 He had no victim profile. Israel contradicted a lot of 249 00:17:25.319 --> 00:17:29.039 what we know about serial killers, mostly because he had 250 00:17:29.119 --> 00:17:30.160 studied them. 251 00:17:30.400 --> 00:17:33.400 So I guess I identify most or my favorite, if 252 00:17:33.440 --> 00:17:35.119 you have to put it that way, would be the 253 00:17:35.119 --> 00:17:37.759 ones that I identify most with. Yeah, that's a fair 254 00:17:37.799 --> 00:17:41.599 way to say it. I don't know, maybe just going 255 00:17:41.680 --> 00:17:48.119 off of what I read Ted Bundy. Maybe I don't 256 00:17:48.119 --> 00:17:55.200 know because I don't have a lot of respect for 257 00:17:55.279 --> 00:18:00.400 someone line because because of the way they lived. 258 00:18:00.640 --> 00:18:04.599 I guess, I don't know. Did you like reading about 259 00:18:04.640 --> 00:18:04.960 all of them? 260 00:18:05.000 --> 00:18:08.160 But yeah, identify when you start reading about them, when 261 00:18:08.200 --> 00:18:11.799 did you realize I mean, did you start reading about 262 00:18:11.839 --> 00:18:15.680 them because you were curious about you or did you 263 00:18:16.680 --> 00:18:18.519 was it a study guide sort of speak. 264 00:18:18.519 --> 00:18:20.119 I mean that might be a weird question too. Did 265 00:18:20.160 --> 00:18:22.640 you learn things from to do not do? 266 00:18:23.160 --> 00:18:26.519 Or was it just curiosity of do you have anything 267 00:18:26.519 --> 00:18:27.240 in common with them? 268 00:18:27.359 --> 00:18:28.200 Is that you were looking for? 269 00:18:28.240 --> 00:18:31.680 If you think, Well, the first book I read was 270 00:18:33.599 --> 00:18:35.519 I think it was called mind Hunter, and it was 271 00:18:35.559 --> 00:18:39.039 written by an FBI profiler. 272 00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:39.640 John Douglass. 273 00:18:39.720 --> 00:18:44.480 Right, Yeah, I read that years and years ago, probably 274 00:18:44.519 --> 00:18:56.079 when I was fifteen or sixteen, and I was, yes, 275 00:18:56.799 --> 00:19:02.680 somewhat disturbed by it, just because, Uh, I don't know, 276 00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:03.759 It's always been that way. 277 00:19:03.839 --> 00:19:04.759 It's always. 278 00:19:06.160 --> 00:19:08.599 Felt like I was kind of reading about myself in 279 00:19:08.640 --> 00:19:09.359 a lot of those. 280 00:19:09.200 --> 00:19:16.119 Books, most really interesting names. It's all interesting reading. Why 281 00:19:16.119 --> 00:19:22.000 didn't you like b TK? He was a hag number 282 00:19:22.039 --> 00:19:23.839 of years he seemed to get away. He got away 283 00:19:23.839 --> 00:19:26.759 with him for a long time. That was the most disappointing. 284 00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:28.559 Thing about him is that he never had to get caught, and. 285 00:19:28.599 --> 00:19:31.440 He just got bored so that he was too much. 286 00:19:32.759 --> 00:19:34.799 He was too soft in his old age to actually 287 00:19:34.839 --> 00:19:38.240 go out and do anything against me. He decided to 288 00:19:38.240 --> 00:19:40.839 go the publicity you're oute without actually. 289 00:19:40.480 --> 00:19:44.200 Doing anything again, That's what was disappointing. He was also 290 00:19:44.240 --> 00:19:48.359 pretty unusual in that he that he was able to stop. 291 00:19:49.359 --> 00:19:52.240 Plus I saw the live prison interview, and my impression 292 00:19:52.279 --> 00:19:55.839 of him. 293 00:19:54.279 --> 00:19:55.920 His personality is that. 294 00:19:57.799 --> 00:20:01.519 He was actually sorry, yeah, for the things that he 295 00:20:01.599 --> 00:20:05.200 had done younger, kind of like repented or thought he 296 00:20:05.279 --> 00:20:05.839 was trying. 297 00:20:05.720 --> 00:20:08.640 Repenting of his waist kind of thing. And I don't 298 00:20:08.640 --> 00:20:12.440 know I think it was for real, because I honestly, 299 00:20:12.440 --> 00:20:14.480 I don't think if it was, I don't think. 300 00:20:14.400 --> 00:20:17.680 If he really didn't believe that he was repenting of 301 00:20:17.680 --> 00:20:20.759 his sins, I don't think he ever would have stopped. 302 00:20:21.359 --> 00:20:24.079 Because he stopped for like twenty years. 303 00:20:24.480 --> 00:20:28.759 I don't know, my mind, that's impossible. But why why 304 00:20:28.759 --> 00:20:31.039 do you say that? Just because of the way he 305 00:20:32.880 --> 00:20:37.319 the way he killed people that you know, it's a 306 00:20:37.359 --> 00:20:43.960 pretty obsessive, compulsive act to kill someone that way. It's 307 00:20:44.000 --> 00:20:45.920 not it's not like your gang bang or doing a 308 00:20:45.960 --> 00:20:46.839 drive by or something. 309 00:20:46.920 --> 00:20:52.960 So Israel learned from their mistakes. He was incredibly controlled. 310 00:20:53.599 --> 00:20:57.079 He planned his murders well in advance, sometimes even years ahead. 311 00:20:58.279 --> 00:21:02.559 He had kill kits hidden all the United States, and 312 00:21:02.680 --> 00:21:06.359 rather than seeking out victims, he let his victims come 313 00:21:06.400 --> 00:21:10.240 to him. He would travel to remote areas all across 314 00:21:10.240 --> 00:21:15.240 the country, paying in all cash, flying into airports hundreds 315 00:21:15.279 --> 00:21:18.720 of miles away from his destination. Also as to leave 316 00:21:18.759 --> 00:21:22.440 no real trace of where he'd actually been, he tempered 317 00:21:22.480 --> 00:21:26.799 his urges by robbing banks, burglarizing homes, and committing random arsons. 318 00:21:27.599 --> 00:21:29.880 That's how he was able to stay so controlled in 319 00:21:29.920 --> 00:21:33.279 his killings. In fact, the only reason he was caught 320 00:21:33.440 --> 00:21:35.279 is because he eventually strayed from all that. 321 00:21:35.839 --> 00:21:45.799 Well, back when I was smart, I would. 322 00:21:46.519 --> 00:21:50.920 Do it. I would let them come to me. I 323 00:21:50.920 --> 00:21:55.559 don't understand just a remote area, you know, no. 324 00:21:58.839 --> 00:22:01.119 Kind of lay to a remote area that's not anywhere 325 00:22:01.160 --> 00:22:05.000 near where you live, but that other people go to 326 00:22:05.200 --> 00:22:10.359 as well, you might not get exactly what you're ls, 327 00:22:10.400 --> 00:22:12.640 not as much to choose from in a manner speaking. 328 00:22:12.680 --> 00:22:17.680 But there's also no witnesses. Really, there's nobody else around. 329 00:22:17.799 --> 00:22:28.240 So and then when they when they disappear a lot 330 00:22:28.279 --> 00:22:30.559 of times, nobody's really. 331 00:22:30.400 --> 00:22:32.359 Surprised, cause it happens all the time. 332 00:22:34.759 --> 00:22:36.480 But what I'm trying to take us So, but if 333 00:22:36.480 --> 00:22:39.279 somebody's camping in a remote spot, someone's gonna know that 334 00:22:39.359 --> 00:22:46.279 they didn't come home. Right, So, did you have other 335 00:22:46.319 --> 00:22:48.720 things that you looked for in a pictum. 336 00:22:51.920 --> 00:22:57.119 No, it was you know, it's just you asking me 337 00:22:57.200 --> 00:22:58.799 what type of people I would pick. 338 00:22:58.720 --> 00:23:01.559 Or yeah, what prop or whether there was a weddinarly 339 00:23:01.599 --> 00:23:07.279 habitype I had preference, but that it wasn't. 340 00:23:07.720 --> 00:23:14.000 What's the preference? Well, lightweight? 341 00:23:19.079 --> 00:23:21.759 Is that because of attraction or because of disposal? 342 00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:26.799 Yeah, it's kind of makes it easier, Okay, but you 343 00:23:26.880 --> 00:23:34.640 know it's not. It's not a deal breaker. 344 00:23:35.480 --> 00:23:37.880 The other thing that kept Israel under the radar for 345 00:23:37.920 --> 00:23:41.279 so long is he was very good at hiding bodies. 346 00:23:42.720 --> 00:23:46.400 In fact, as of today, only one of his victim's 347 00:23:46.400 --> 00:23:50.799 remains have ever been recovered, and that recovery only happened 348 00:23:50.839 --> 00:23:54.359 because Israel guided the FBI to her body. Even in 349 00:23:54.440 --> 00:23:57.440 multiple cases where he's told the FBI where the bodies are, 350 00:23:58.440 --> 00:24:01.400 they still haven't been able to recover them. I mentioned 351 00:24:01.440 --> 00:24:04.799 missing people before, how easy it is to become obsessed 352 00:24:04.799 --> 00:24:09.440 with missing persons cases. Well, it turns out Israel had 353 00:24:09.440 --> 00:24:12.279 that same obsession. One thing I love about summer is 354 00:24:12.319 --> 00:24:15.759 how easy everything feels. The days are a little more relaxed, 355 00:24:15.839 --> 00:24:18.799 and I find myself reaching for the same comfortable, go 356 00:24:19.000 --> 00:24:22.359 anywhere pieces again and again and That's why I keep 357 00:24:22.400 --> 00:24:25.559 coming back to Quince, because they focus on well made 358 00:24:25.640 --> 00:24:30.039 essentials that naturally become those everyday staples that you actually 359 00:24:30.119 --> 00:24:33.640 live in all season long. For example, I love Quince's 360 00:24:33.640 --> 00:24:37.279 one hundred percent European linen pants, and their shirts are 361 00:24:37.319 --> 00:24:40.640 super breathable, easy to throw on, and the summer upgrade 362 00:24:40.759 --> 00:24:44.720 your rotation needs, starting at just thirty four dollars, Their 363 00:24:44.799 --> 00:24:47.400 teas are soft enough to live in all day, and 364 00:24:47.440 --> 00:24:50.519 the lightweight cotton sweaters are exactly what you want when 365 00:24:50.559 --> 00:24:54.039 your summer nights cool down. Everything at Quince's priced fifty 366 00:24:54.079 --> 00:24:56.839 to eighty percent less than similar brands because they work 367 00:24:56.920 --> 00:25:01.039 directly with ethical factories and cut out the middleman, so 368 00:25:01.079 --> 00:25:04.640 you're paying for exceptional quality and not brand markup. I 369 00:25:04.720 --> 00:25:08.519 recently bought three of Quince's Japanese Lotus teas, and as 370 00:25:08.519 --> 00:25:12.720 I said before, they fit well, they feel good, the 371 00:25:12.759 --> 00:25:16.640 fabric feels rich and expensive, it's got the perfect weight 372 00:25:16.759 --> 00:25:20.799 to it, and they look great. They're fashionable staples that 373 00:25:20.839 --> 00:25:25.119 I can wear with tons of different outfits throughout the years, 374 00:25:25.599 --> 00:25:29.960 and they start at just twenty nine to ninety. And remember, 375 00:25:30.440 --> 00:25:34.440 Quince isn't just selling clothing. They've become a trusted favorite 376 00:25:34.480 --> 00:25:38.799 for everything from home products, to travel products to everyday essentials. 377 00:25:39.480 --> 00:25:44.359 Like I said, we've used them for caviaar, housewares, suitcases. 378 00:25:44.599 --> 00:25:47.599 Quince truly does have everything, and it's the first place 379 00:25:47.640 --> 00:25:50.079 we go when we're looking for gifts. So make your 380 00:25:50.119 --> 00:25:54.880 summer wardrobe easier. Go to quints dot com slash TCBs 381 00:25:54.920 --> 00:25:57.839 for free shipping on your order and three hundred and 382 00:25:57.839 --> 00:26:01.920 sixty five day returns Now available Canada too. That's qu 383 00:26:02.039 --> 00:26:07.039 i Ncee dot com slash TCBs for free shipping and 384 00:26:07.119 --> 00:26:10.240 three hundred and sixty five day returns quins dot com 385 00:26:10.319 --> 00:26:15.400 slash TCBs. In the FBI files, they found images of 386 00:26:15.480 --> 00:26:20.160 over forty missing persons on his computers, and a large 387 00:26:20.160 --> 00:26:24.200 majority of those missing persons can not be attributed to Israel. 388 00:26:24.680 --> 00:26:27.920 Either they happened during his adolescence or before he was born, 389 00:26:28.160 --> 00:26:31.839 or they have just been proven not to be him. 390 00:26:32.039 --> 00:26:35.720 One case in particular Susan Powell, whom we know was 391 00:26:35.759 --> 00:26:40.200 her husband, And I wonder why Israel would spend so 392 00:26:40.279 --> 00:26:43.920 much time looking into all these missing persons. 393 00:26:44.440 --> 00:26:47.839 Well, it certainly could be that he had developed a 394 00:26:47.960 --> 00:26:53.000 paraphilia or a sexual debiance regarding missing people. 395 00:26:53.960 --> 00:26:58.200 This is doctor Catherine Ransland, a renowned criminal psychologist best 396 00:26:58.240 --> 00:27:01.480 known for her work with Dennis Rader, the serial killer, 397 00:27:01.519 --> 00:27:06.079 better known as bt K. Catherine has studied Israel pretty extensively, 398 00:27:06.200 --> 00:27:09.160 and just last week appeared on Doctor Oz talking about him. 399 00:27:09.440 --> 00:27:11.880 We'll be hearing more from Catherine throughout the series. 400 00:27:12.400 --> 00:27:15.640 I think he was fascinated with it. He wanted to, 401 00:27:16.799 --> 00:27:20.960