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Speaker 1: Hey, hey, Tony Gassin's here popping in another episode. Now,

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want to talk to you about setting standards, because this

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is one of the things that I see a lot of,

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is the lack of standards. Because if you don't take

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the time to set your standards before going into a

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relationship or going on to a job, or going into anything,

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then you'll be presented with some things that are beneath

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you and you'll end up accepting it because you never

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established in your own mind that this is not okay.

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So you have to sit down and really take the

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time and think about how you want to be treated.

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So often I get these questions about, you know, why

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the men do this, why the women do that? How

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do you get somebody to do this? How do you

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get somebody to do that? The answer is, you got

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to know what you want. You gotta set your standards,

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and you can't let the world tell you what you

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can not have. And that's one of the things you'll see.

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There are people who say, hey, I want someone who

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is attractive. I want someone who is responsible, I want

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someone who is ambitious. I want someone who is faithful,

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who is caring, who is kind, who is compassionate, who

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is understanding who is loving and devoted?

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Speaker 2: I want that package.

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Speaker 1: And guess what that.

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Speaker 3: Was Tony Gaskins, the voice of reason has returned to.

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Speaker 4: The scene of the conversation. And somebody was asking me.

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Speaker 3: Recently, and this leads to me right into our topic tonight.

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You know, who are you and why does your voice matter?

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Speaker 5: In?

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Speaker 4: You know?

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Speaker 3: The landscape of relationship content creators? And I thought that

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was a very interesting and fair question, and I can't

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planet any better. I had no idea that Jill Monroe

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would have Kendreck g.

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Speaker 4: As the closing.

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Speaker 3: Interview of her episode, and it's just a perfect lead

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in for me, cause I'm gonna tell you right now,

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I'm not like any of these folk.

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Speaker 4: And that doesn't.

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Speaker 3: Mean I'm better than the rest of them or but

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I'm in it for a different reason. You know, a

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lot of self help is strategy based. How to get

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the person you want in ten steps, or how to

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heal your attachment style in sixty seconds. A lot of

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this stuff is strategy based. My work is totally different,

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and I thought, man, today, I need to reintroduce myself

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to my listening audience. I'm different than what anybody else

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got going on who is Zoe Williams and why does

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my or his voice matter?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 3: A comparative investigation into what fundamentally distinguishes me and my

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philosophy of intimate relationships from the dating strategy, gender politics,

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mate market economics, trauma, healing, self worth, faith based, clinical

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and pop psychology frameworks, dominating black relationship media, and whether

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my work asks a fundamentally different question. I think the

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question my work is asking is not simply how do

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we find, keep, fix, survive or leave relationships? But what

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do our relationships reveal about the consciousness, conditioning, culture, history, wounds, beliefs, perceptions, desires,

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and definitions of love we bring into them. I'm listening

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to Kendred G talking about how love is unconditional man,

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and this is no disrespect to Kendred G.

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Speaker 4: Shout out to her.

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Speaker 3: Much respect to her. She's building a brand and it's amazing.

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But listening to that, I can say I respectfully disagree.

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There were some things that I agreed with, but the

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love piece I totally disagree with.

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Speaker 4: I'm sorry, you know it sounded like.

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Speaker 3: A business plan for love, a marketing pitch for love.

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Love is conditional. Love is based on conditions. Well, let

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me just say this quite simply. I always defer and

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default back to when one of my favorite people in

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the world was on the show, Doctor Joshanna Johnson, when

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she was talking about, you know the love languages and

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how they are born out of attachment wounds.

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Speaker 4: Well, so are the conditions and the expectations.

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Speaker 3: That's one of the things that separates me from other

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content creators. And I say separate. I didn't say elevate.

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I didn't say that makes me better than But I'm different.

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I'm coming from a different perspective. I say need is

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the original sin Adam and Eve kicked out of the garden.

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That was the first time they felt separation from God,

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when the need and the yearning for God possibly was born.

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D you see this is the work I'm doing. Relationship

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is a spiritual environment that reveals you to yourself. A

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lot of people have strategies for how to get what

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you want from the person you're with. I tend to

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see that as a type of or maybe a form

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of manipulation. They're not giving it to you willingly did

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they ever want to give it to you? Tonight's topic,

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who is Zoe Williams and why does his voice matter.

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Speaker 4: Now I look at relationships, or look.

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Speaker 3: I look at the relationship content world, and I see

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something that should make all of us a little uncomfortable.

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We have never had this many people telling us how

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to love. Men are being taught what women want, Women

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are being taught what men fear. We have experts on standards, boundaries,

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red flags, attachment, masculine leadership, feminine energy, high value behavior, healing, marriage, submission, narcissism, emotional, intelligent,

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biblical order. So why are we still this confused about

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one another? Everybody's an expert, right. That question bothers me

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because I suspect the problem may reach deeper than just

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bad advice. Every piece of relationship advice carries an invisible

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philosophy inside of it. Somebody has already decided what love means.

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Somebody has already defined a successful relationship. Somebody has already

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determined what makes a man valuable, what makes a woman desirable,

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what healing should produce, what marriage proves right, what leadership

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looks like, and what a healthy person should want.

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Speaker 4: I want to know.

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Speaker 3: Who gave those definitions permission to become truth. Kevin Samuels

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could make you confront your position, right in the romantic

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market place. Do you know many people when I first

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came to KBLA confused my philosophy with Kevin Samuel's philosophy.

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Totally different because of my Andy said, because of my aggression.

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How I speak with definitive certainty and passion. Oh, he's

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Kevin Samuels. Well, listen deeper. Didn't they teach you to

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listen in school?

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Speaker 4: Right? Well, let me say it again.

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Speaker 3: Kevin Samuels could make you confront your position in the

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romantic marketplace. Tony Gaskins can challenge your standards and choices.

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I fundamentally disagree with both of those positions. Right, wounds

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are choosing, unwitnessed unhealed wounds are doing the choosing, But

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I digress. Steven speaks Right can ask you whether unresolved

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pain keeps interfering with the love you say you want.

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Speaker 4: Hell, we even got doctor Cheyenne Bryant.

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Speaker 3: Let me go to another doctor, Brian doctor Thelma Bryant.

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Right can bring trauma, culture, authenticity, and liberation into the conversation.

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Ejan levan ZANDT can walk you toward the spiritual root

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of things. R. C. Blake's can bring your identity before

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God into the room. Those are serious contributions. My question

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usually starts acting up after the answer arrives. I'm sorry,

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I woo Tell me to choose better, and I want

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to investigate the chooser. Tell me to know my worth?

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And I want to know whose currency are we using.

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It is type of questions I'm asking. Tell me a

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man needs to lead, and I want leadership to show

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me its identification.

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Speaker 4: Who taught you what leading means? Is it service? Is control?

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Speaker 3: Is it responsibility? Is it a combination of all of it?

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Speaker 4: Is it fear? Wearing authorities clothes? I want to know.

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Speaker 3: These are the type of questions I'm asking. Tell a

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woman to raise her standards, and I want to know

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who built them? Wisdom, pain or humiliation? Who built your standards, ma'am? Wisdom,

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pain or humiliation? Who built your boundaries?

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Speaker 4: Wisdom? Pain or humiliation?

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Speaker 3: Discernment, social comparison, fear of ever being embarrassed again? Who

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are the architects of your boundaries? Of your standards? What

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if your expectations are built from a secret desire to

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have your partner regulate your emotions? I'm asking the questions

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of who's the author of the expectation who's the author

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of the boundary? Tell me somebody is toxic, and quite

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possibly they might be. But I still want to know

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what happened inside you when you met them, What made

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their behavior recognizable to you, what kept you anchored in

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the situation, what made leaving difficult? And what meaning you

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attached to the entire experience. These are the type of

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questions Zoe Williams is asking. This is where my work lives.

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I am interested in the question underneath the question. The

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relationship may begin as the subject, but it rarely gets

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to remain there. A conversation about cheating can become an

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investigation of identity. Attraction can expose culture hiding inside of chemistry.

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I'm asking the questions, how did you build this intellectual

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architecture that makes you think you know what you're doing?

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When we come forward, the voice of reason will continue

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to introduce himself to you. Storytime with Zoe Williams. That

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song matters to me.

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Speaker 4: This was the first.

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Speaker 3: Time that I've recognized that I was afraid of love.

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I was with a young lady. She was a couple

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of years older than me. I was around eighteen or nineteen.

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Speaker 4: She was like twenty one and she was really serious

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about me.

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Speaker 3: She was locked in, she was tapped in, like she

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was pouring into Zoe, and it frightened me. I literally

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played that we we on our way somewhere. She's driving

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and she had a I think it was a nineteen

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ninety Nissan CenTra. It was red with the black windows. Yeah,

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like she had her stuff together. She wasn't from Pasadena,

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she was a little further out.

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Speaker 4: She was from West Covina, oh Man. But she was

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a sister. She was pouring into me.

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Speaker 3: But I was young, I was foolish, and I was cute.

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So I can remember us going to the movies. I

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want you guys to get to Nuzo. I remember us

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going to the movies and Andy, I want you to

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start this from the top. I was going to the movies.

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We were going to the movies. And because she made

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me uncomfortable, because of how much she cared about me.

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Speaker 4: It scared me. There was one time.

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Speaker 3: It was Christmas and I think my mother and I

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were at a like a family Christmas get down right,

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it was a family Christmas party. This girl knew that

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I never locked my back door, because this is how

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she would come in and hang out with me.

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Speaker 4: This girl.

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Speaker 3: Came into the crib. I was still living with my

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mother at the time. She came into the crib, brought

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a tree, decorated the tree, put a gang of gifts

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under the tree for myself and my mother, and it

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frightened me. I'm just giving you the insight of what

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got me on my journey. Andy, play it from the top.

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Speaker 4: Let's go. I want you guys to do it.

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Speaker 3: This is the reason why I'm playing the record. Wait, wait,

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hold on, hold on, hold on, Andy, Dan, we on

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the way to the movies, and I tell you, I

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put this record on on purpose. And I told her,

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like I'm like eighteen nineteen.

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Speaker 4: I tell her, I dedicate this to you. And she

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listened to it and she was like, what let it play? Andy,

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I'm sorry.

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Speaker 6: Let's that a man's deans man, oh man, I'm not

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that a man would be bound to dog his.

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Speaker 7: Es. How many victims in here, how many people say

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he did this, he did that, he left me, he

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took that, he did that, you know, and when you

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do that, you deified the.

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Speaker 4: Problem that I guess, in my opinion, the trust comes

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in that I'm like, oh, everyone's a great person.

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Speaker 6: I can give them whatever they want.

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Speaker 8: And what about boundaries?

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Speaker 7: People violate you when you don't have clear boundaries because

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you don't tell them how to behave in your life,

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and they run the mark.

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Speaker 4: They run the.

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Speaker 7: Mark because you don't have clear boundaries. Now, Venus, you

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just said on the tape that you'd rather be in

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a dead end relationship than be alone.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, how are you defining alone? Not having somewhere to

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go on Friday night? Why can't you go out with

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your girlfriend? Get get it out of here?

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Speaker 7: I did.

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Speaker 3: I love Iyanla. I would love to have Yanla on

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so we could discuss this. Do you remember the scene

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in the Matrix when Neo becomes the one after he

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is shot several times by Agent Smith and he effectively dies.

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Do you remember the scene he's blasted on a few

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times and then it's over. When we come forward, I'm

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gonna give my counter thought to Yana Vanzette.

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Speaker 9: Hey, Hey, good morning, How y'all doing well? Good afternoon.

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I know people will be tuning in all over the world. Hey,

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how you doing. Yeah? I know that h as a

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Kyle Walker and John p Key doing a you know,

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a holy ghost battle today, So I thought I would

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play Hezekiah Walker's better today?

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Speaker 2: Hey, Christina, what's up?

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Speaker 5: John?

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Speaker 2: Yes, it's gonna get better because God is in control.

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What's up, Honey? Be me, what's up missus? What's up Jessica? Hey,

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how y'all doing this morning?

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Speaker 8: Saying Hi?

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Speaker 4: Everybody?

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Speaker 2: Welcome?

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Speaker 4: Hey Devon Franklin. I want him to get to the meeting. Potatoes,

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don't ever depart.

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Speaker 2: Hey, Hey, my sister Lisa in the house. What's up?

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What's up? Let's how you doing? Get better?

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Speaker 10: I know it may not be better right now, but

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you're declaring it's gonna get better.

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Speaker 2: Hey, tricks from the ton of Daytona.

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Speaker 10: Be took the man and put him in the garden

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of Eden to work it and take care of it.

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The Lord God took the man, put the man into

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the garden of Eden to work it and take care

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of it. All right now, this this is before there

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was the creation of the woman.

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Speaker 2: So here we are.

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Speaker 10: The garden of Eden has been created, and God creates man,

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puts man into the garden of Eden. What was the

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man's responsibility to take care of it and work it?

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Speaker 2: Hmm.

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Speaker 10: It's interesting that the introduction of man in the Bible,

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in the word of God is synonymous with work, responsibility,

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accountability too.

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Speaker 3: Often no disrespect myself in Devon Franklin, we went on

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a trip together man down to Steve Harvey's. Steve Harvey

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had an event in Houston or yes, I think it

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was Houston Dallas, one of those places where Steve actually lives,

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and he had a huge event for single mothers and

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myself in Devon Franklin, which we went down there. We

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were chosen to go down there to speak to the

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young boys that Steve was mentoring. But I played Devon

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Franklin to say, you got content creators out there that

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use the religious framing, the hierarchical framing. God put man

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here for responsibility and d D. I'm not here to disagree.

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My job here is totally different than Devon Franklin. I'm

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here to tell you what the purpose, the spiritual purpose

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of relationship is, not the societal, not.

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Speaker 4: The agricultural, not the gender base.

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Speaker 3: But the psychological, spiritual side of it, the metaphysical side.

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That's Zoe's point. Who is Zoe willing? This is what

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Zoe does right that love saw it record, I was

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with the same girl. It's a wonderful record. She was

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such a sweetheart.

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Speaker 4: I was cheating. I just wasn't tapped in. I was

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cheat eating, but she was serious. She was playing Karen

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White and Babyface singing together. Ah.

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Speaker 3: This is when I realized something is wrong with me.

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And it was that young lady that got me on

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my spiritual journey.

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Speaker 4: Right. I was like eighteen nineteen. I didn't even know myself.

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Speaker 3: But it was that relationship that served as the catalyst.

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Later I figure out attachment styles. Oh, I'm anxious preoccupied.

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I'm always running after the woman that's running. The women

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that run to me, I tend to ignore them because

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they're there. That's the dichotomy of the anxious preoccupied attachment style.

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Speaker 4: If you chase the anxious, they don't really respect it DC.

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And that was the first time that was triggered in me.

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Speaker 3: She was there, she was present, she wanted to love

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on me, and I felt triggered.

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Speaker 4: I felt awkward. D See Zoe Williams's work is a

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little different.

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Speaker 3: I merge the philosophical, the psychological, the metaphysical. I don't

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merge the dogmatic, the social constructs. I don't merge those.

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Speaker 4: DC.

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Speaker 3: Once I got on my spiritual journey, I started to

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see Oh, this is what relationship is really about. That's

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why I don't do the strategy ten steps to get

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her to see you in a different light, ten steps

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to get anything you want from anybody.

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Speaker 4: I don't do.

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Speaker 3: Self help disguised as influence, like how to influence anybody

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to pick up artist stuff.

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Speaker 4: I don't do that.

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Speaker 3: We've got callers on the line. I want to get

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him in here right now. We got Lamont from Akron, Ohio. Lamont,

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what are your thoughts on tonight's topic? My friend, no profanity, Lamont, Yes.

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Speaker 11: Sir so.

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Speaker 12: So, I just wanted to say the first time I

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saw you he was on Black Men Revealed and back

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in the nineties, mid nineties whenever it was.

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Speaker 3: Man two thousand and four, two thousand and five, actually

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was that.

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Speaker 12: Was oh four?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 12: Oh wow, yeah that was Yeah, that was a long

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time ago. So, uh, like what brought you to no,

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how like to uh to get on your journey to

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become the scholar that you are, Because like when I

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saw you on that show a couple of times, and

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you like you knew it. It's like you knew what

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you were talking about, Like when you were talking to

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the one pastor and the other guy. But like you,

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00:25:21,079 --> 00:25:24,680
like you knew everything, that not everything. I guess you

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00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,279
could say you knew everything, but you knew what was

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going on no matter what they came at you with

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on the shows that I seen you on, Like, like,

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what what motivates you to do that?

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Speaker 3: Pastor Singleton was on that show with me initially and

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we're still good friends to this day.

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Speaker 4: Uh, let me do this.

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna answer your question. You stay right there, don't

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go anywhere. When we come forward, because we're up against

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00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:56,960
the clock. I want to answer Lamont's question about what

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motivated me to go on this journey when we come

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forward more from the VR.

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Speaker 4: Good morning.

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Speaker 13: I am so excited to be here, and in the

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spirit of revival, I am reminded about what happens on

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the third day, and so it is a divine setup

359
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that we are here for resurrection. It is a divine

360
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setup that everything that was meant to dismantle and to

361
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destroy and to diminish you did not get the final say.

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And so here we sit because the blood still works.

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I am, in my spiritual eyes even more excited to

364
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see you than I am in my natural eyes, because

365
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in our natural eyes We can only see what we

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chose to wear today, and if you decided to put

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on a little lip glass, but in the spirit, to

368
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know that you're spirit has gone from the fetal position

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to sitting here today. I am especially on assignment for

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those who could not sleep last night. This is the

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answer to prayers. And so I am glad and thankful

372
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for the tradition of starting with poetry, and in that spirit,

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I'll start with are we on Andy?

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Speaker 4: Who was that young lady that was doctor tholm'brien.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I love her work.

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Speaker 4: Anyway.

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Speaker 3: People think because people are Christians or whatever, that I

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don't still.

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Speaker 4: Rock with them, but I do.

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Speaker 3: Come on, I'm from Chattanooga Baptist Church, Chattanooga, Like, come on, now.

381
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:55,200
Speaker 4: Listen to me.

382
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Speaker 3: It's all together, It's all one thing.

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 3: Lamont from Akron, Ohio was asking me a question and

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I wanted to answer him. It's tied into that first

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relationship when she broke up with me. Right when that

387
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:19,079
young lady broke up with me, Man, my attachment wounds

388
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were triggered, and it literally sent me on a spiritual

389
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journey after I crashed out, sent me on a spiritual

390
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journey like my friends who grew up with me knew like, oh,

391
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:41,960
this broke up. This breakup was heavy on him. It

392
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flipped him inside out. And as I started to study

393
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and read, and I mean I'm a voracious reader everything philosophy, psychology,

394
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quantum mechanics, consciousness systems. I started reading everything This is

395
00:29:00,839 --> 00:29:03,920
me at nineteen, I started.

396
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Speaker 4: Consuming at all because.

397
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Speaker 3: When she was pouring in, I was uncomfortable, didn't know

398
00:29:11,519 --> 00:29:14,119
how to receive. And then when she took it away,

399
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:20,400
DC's need as the first sin manifested itself in me, like, oh,

400
00:29:20,519 --> 00:29:25,200
this feels like my mother not being available, because my

401
00:29:25,279 --> 00:29:29,759
mother wasn't available emotionally. So it triggered a whole bunch

402
00:29:29,759 --> 00:29:34,039
of stuff and I went on a religious like. I

403
00:29:34,079 --> 00:29:38,880
started reading the Bible, studying religions. I just like really

404
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:44,000
dove into knowledge, all types of esoteric knowledge, spiritual knowledge.

405
00:29:44,039 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 4: And that's what got me on the journey. I hope

406
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:48,079
I answered your question.

407
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:54,559
Speaker 12: Brother, I just wanted to say I can be grief.

408
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:59,880
You said that, and you said, like mother wasn't there

409
00:30:00,039 --> 00:30:07,680
for you, you know, emotional understand that that's just me, you know,

410
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,440
in my life. But like I said, man, I just

411
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:14,440
wanted to you know, see what understand how you got

412
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,119
on the journey that you got to. Like I said,

413
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:20,839
that's the first time I saw you, and you know,

414
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,079
I saw you doing other stuff and that's what brought

415
00:30:24,119 --> 00:30:28,039
me to you know, you know other see other people

416
00:30:28,119 --> 00:30:32,400
that you've been around, so you know, but absolute to you.

417
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:36,480
So for real, like and I wish that like the

418
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,400
like Black Men revealed, I wish that they had that

419
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:45,799
show againment or something you know close to that, you know,

420
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:49,519
to to open people's minds on book the things.

421
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:52,599
Speaker 3: Man, Well, I appreciate it, brother, but I got a

422
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:54,920
question for you. Guess what you just did?

423
00:30:58,000 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 12: What's that?

424
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:01,359
Speaker 3: Come on, Laman, I gotta tell I tell you. When

425
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,440
I say guess what you just did? You say I

426
00:31:04,519 --> 00:31:06,640
brought Akron Ohio in the building.

427
00:31:07,119 --> 00:31:11,079
Speaker 4: Let's do it. Guess what you just did? Lamont.

428
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 12: I brought Akron Ohio in the building.

429
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:16,119
Speaker 3: Whoop, Akron Ohio is on the board. If you want

430
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:17,359
to bring your city in the building. No you got

431
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:18,720
to do is call me on one eight hundred nine

432
00:31:18,799 --> 00:31:24,160
twenty fifteen eighty. Were gonna jet to Detroit, Michigan. Reggie

433
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:26,720
is on the line. Reggie from Detroit, Michigan.

434
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 4: What are your thoughts on tonight's topic.

435
00:31:29,839 --> 00:31:34,319
Speaker 5: So what's up? Man? I've heard you maybe at least

436
00:31:34,319 --> 00:31:36,599
fifteen years. It was back in the Fox Whole days

437
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:41,119
when I started listening to you. And one I guess

438
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,359
the biggest gift you've probably given us is the gift

439
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:48,880
of perspective. You know, it's not you never tell us

440
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:53,519
what to think. You just give us tools to look

441
00:31:53,559 --> 00:31:56,799
at an issue and look at ourselves in a different way.

442
00:31:57,920 --> 00:31:59,640
And so you never tell us what you think. It's

443
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:03,000
only that we are thinking. And I think that's the

444
00:32:03,119 --> 00:32:08,599
lasting thing. It doesn't just last, it out last because

445
00:32:08,599 --> 00:32:11,400
you keep asking the question of yourself, Okay, how am

446
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:15,400
I looking at this thing? Is my vision correct for

447
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:19,359
the time that I'm in? And that's that's really valuable

448
00:32:19,359 --> 00:32:23,079
to me. You know, some of the things that you

449
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,359
ask it are you know, what are you afraid of?

450
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:31,440
And usually the situation just stops with you identifying the

451
00:32:31,519 --> 00:32:33,279
thing that you're afraid of. You just kind of shy

452
00:32:33,319 --> 00:32:36,559
away from it. But you you're like, okay, you you

453
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:40,960
identified this thing, all right? What about it scares you?

454
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,160
And you just keep asking those questions, just you know,

455
00:32:44,319 --> 00:32:47,400
unwrapping that onion that's there and you get to a

456
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:51,599
deeper sense of yourself. That's something you can take away

457
00:32:52,119 --> 00:32:54,440
from this, from this program, and it's something that you

458
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,720
can apply to your life every day. So I've done

459
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:02,000
this for goodness at least it's he is now. So

460
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,680
I mean, that's the gift that you've given me, and

461
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:05,880
I just appreciate you for it.

462
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 4: Man, Man, I appreciate you, man, Thank you. Man. It's

463
00:33:09,519 --> 00:33:10,039
all love.

464
00:33:10,319 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 3: And it's been a long time since we heard from

465
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:17,200
Reggie from Austin, Texas. It's no longer Austin, Texas is

466
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:18,440
d Detroit.

467
00:33:18,559 --> 00:33:21,319
Speaker 4: What up though? Hey, guess what you just did.

468
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 5: Reggie brought Detroit in the building.

469
00:33:24,599 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 4: Detroit is in the building.

470
00:33:26,319 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 3: We hey, man, we miss you. I hope to get

471
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:37,359
you back in here sometime soon. Listen, I want us

472
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:42,319
to understand I come from a different perspective. That's what

473
00:33:42,359 --> 00:33:44,880
I want us to understand. I'm never trying to sound

474
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:48,519
like anybody else. And when I do mention other people's work,

475
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:53,200
I like to cite them. But I know the way

476
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:56,680
we view relationships is broken and it needs to be fixed.

477
00:33:57,640 --> 00:33:57,839
Speaker 8: Right.

478
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:03,279
Speaker 4: Love is not enough, but God is love. Wow.

479
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:09,079
Speaker 3: I need somebody to fulfill my needs needs, One of

480
00:34:09,079 --> 00:34:11,800
my fundamental beliefs is that need.

481
00:34:11,639 --> 00:34:15,840
Speaker 4: Is the first sin. Right, a mother.

482
00:34:16,199 --> 00:34:21,679
Speaker 3: In many anthropological research and cultural research, you will find

483
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:22,480
that the mother.

484
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:28,039
Speaker 4: Was a deity figure, a god figure, the mother. So

485
00:34:28,159 --> 00:34:29,480
imagine when the mother.

486
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:35,599
Speaker 3: Is inconsistent with regards to the child's need, and then

487
00:34:35,679 --> 00:34:39,840
the child develops a strategy. This is what people are

488
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:43,800
teaching in a relationship today is strategy.

489
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:45,519
Speaker 4: Why because the.

490
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:49,400
Speaker 3: Wound that was created needs a strategy in order to

491
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:55,280
be satiated. And if you never unchecked that, never turn

492
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:59,719
that switch off. As you transition into adulthood. The strategy

493
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:02,760
is to all operating. Well, this is how you show

494
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:06,119
up in relationship in order to get what you want? Oh, well,

495
00:35:06,159 --> 00:35:09,159
you don't. Love is not enough. You don't necessarily need love.

496
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:12,519
I mean it's all conditional. I can love you based

497
00:35:12,559 --> 00:35:16,920
on what you do. Well, if it's conditional, how can

498
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:21,280
you stop the doing and transition into the being? That's

499
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:28,400
one of the fundamental thoughts, right that Zo brings to

500
00:35:28,639 --> 00:35:30,280
the relational.

501
00:35:29,679 --> 00:35:37,320
Speaker 4: Field right when we come forward, Just no, I haven't

502
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:39,039
even touched the surface.

503
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:46,800
Speaker 14: Maybe continue, It's what we were talking about yesterday evening.

504
00:35:51,679 --> 00:35:52,920
Speaker 1: Who was seeing.

505
00:35:55,039 --> 00:35:57,039
Speaker 14: That this is not a lecture.

506
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,239
Speaker 4: With a view to.

507
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:19,800
Speaker 14: Convey information. We are together having a conversation, you as

508
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:24,400
a separate human being who are separate at all, with

509
00:36:24,559 --> 00:36:30,719
the speaker. We are walking down a day and gooded,

510
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:38,320
plenty of shadows and birds singing. We sit down together

511
00:36:39,199 --> 00:36:45,960
and talk about the whole problem of existence, which is

512
00:36:46,079 --> 00:36:53,400
very complex. And as we are friends for a long time,

513
00:36:54,679 --> 00:37:00,320
we have many days to talk over these things. And

514
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:09,079
we are neither convincing each other about any subject. We're

515
00:37:09,079 --> 00:37:15,440
not trying to persuade each other, We're not trying to

516
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:25,000
overcome the other through arguments or sticking dogmatically to one's

517
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:34,000
own opinion prejudices, but rather together and I hope you

518
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:39,719
are doing the same with me. Together, we are going

519
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:46,400
to look the world as it is on the world

520
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:49,280
that is within us.

521
00:37:51,039 --> 00:37:58,800
Speaker 3: So from the very beginning I brought Christiana Meriti right

522
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:04,800
to the forefront these shows because his philosophy, his philosophical approach,

523
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:12,920
his style of questioning right socratic in nature. It inspired me.

524
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:20,960
I discovered him in the nineties. Every time I got

525
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:26,960
into a relationship there was a wreckage. I realized the

526
00:38:27,039 --> 00:38:32,559
acquisition of knowledge was not enough. People are asking, how

527
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:36,000
does Zoe get to talk about this kind of stuff,

528
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:46,159
because in order to gain any modicum of insight, there

529
00:38:46,159 --> 00:38:50,719
were pieces of me that had to be confronted. And

530
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:54,599
in that confrontation there was a recontextualization of who I

531
00:38:54,679 --> 00:38:59,480
thought I was. In other words, an actual destruction of

532
00:38:59,559 --> 00:39:02,920
an old, old architecture, an old belief system, an old

533
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:08,320
structure that lived within me. And just when I thought

534
00:39:08,639 --> 00:39:15,920
I was starting to understand things intellectually articulately, I started.

535
00:39:15,639 --> 00:39:19,239
Speaker 4: To realize, Oh, you just only know the words. You're

536
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:23,440
not embodying the words though. I started to understand that.

537
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:32,840
Speaker 3: Many broken hearts, many disappointed people in my life because

538
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:36,119
I was still trying to figure.

539
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:36,840
Speaker 4: It out right.

540
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:45,440
Speaker 3: But that initial serious relationship when I was in my

541
00:39:45,599 --> 00:39:51,679
teens set me on this journey of the acquisition of information.

542
00:39:52,679 --> 00:39:56,639
It didn't come until my mid to late thirties that

543
00:39:56,719 --> 00:40:01,960
I recognized that, yes, you have accumula a lot of knowledge,

544
00:40:03,199 --> 00:40:08,559
but you have not downloaded any of it. You can

545
00:40:08,599 --> 00:40:16,840
speak it with eloquence, but you cannot live it. It

546
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:20,320
was a guru that I was studying in the nineties

547
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:22,760
by the name of Sethya Sai Baba.

548
00:40:25,119 --> 00:40:26,599
Speaker 4: Who said these three things.

549
00:40:26,639 --> 00:40:31,239
Speaker 3: He said they must be an alignment or it's not real.

550
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:34,519
Speaker 4: Thought word.

551
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:40,840
Speaker 3: Indeed, they must be integrated the thought, the word, and

552
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:46,440
the deed, the action, the behavior, the embodiment thought word. Indeed,

553
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:50,760
if those three are misaligned, there's more to learn, There's

554
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:58,800
more to know about oneself. I'm trying to give you

555
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:00,280
an understanding of my.

556
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:05,199
Speaker 4: Approach, my philosophical approach to relationships. I do not.

557
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:11,039
Speaker 3: Believe the crisis in modern relationships begin with people lacking information.

558
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:17,199
We may possess more relationship information today than any generation

559
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:24,119
before us. We have dating coaches, therapists, pastors, psychologists, masculinity teachers,

560
00:41:24,119 --> 00:41:31,400
femininity teachers, marriage experts, attachment specialists, social media commentators, red

561
00:41:31,559 --> 00:41:37,760
flag lists, compatibility tests, communication formulas, and endless instructions about

562
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:41,000
what men and women should expect from one another. My

563
00:41:41,159 --> 00:41:46,280
question begins somewhere else, entirely, what if the person consuming

564
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:50,880
all of that information has never seriously investigated the consciousness

565
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:52,760
interpreting the information.

566
00:41:54,639 --> 00:41:57,480
Speaker 4: That question sits at the center of my work.

567
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:04,559
Speaker 3: I am not primarily interested in teaching people how to acquire, manage,

568
00:42:05,039 --> 00:42:10,239
keep control, or correctly perform in a relationship.

569
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:11,639
Speaker 4: That is not what I do.

570
00:42:12,559 --> 00:42:16,920
Speaker 3: Although the majority of folk in this field will try to,

571
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:19,119
you know, make it seem like they can teach you

572
00:42:19,159 --> 00:42:22,519
how to do this in thirty quick steps in the

573
00:42:22,639 --> 00:42:24,800
six week masterclass.

574
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:30,639
Speaker 4: No disrespect to them, get your money.

575
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:36,239
Speaker 3: I want to know what intimacy reveals about the human

576
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:39,159
being who entered it entered into it?

577
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:39,599
Speaker 8: Right?

578
00:42:40,519 --> 00:42:45,039
Speaker 3: What does your attraction reveal about the essence of who

579
00:42:45,119 --> 00:42:52,599
you are, the substrate beneath your mask? What does your

580
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:56,320
idea of intimacy reveal about that portion of you?

581
00:42:58,360 --> 00:42:58,639
Speaker 4: Right?

582
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:07,440
Speaker 3: What does rejection disturb within your spirit? What does betrayal

583
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:11,480
expose to you, within you, to you?

584
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:11,920
Speaker 4: Right?

585
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:18,199
Speaker 3: What does commitment threaten inside of you? What architecture does

586
00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:24,239
it threaten? And philosophical architecture, psychological architecture. What does commitment

587
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:29,159
threaten within you? Why does one person feel like safety

588
00:43:29,199 --> 00:43:34,559
while another produces panic? What part of your history participates

589
00:43:34,559 --> 00:43:36,840
in what you presently call chemistry?

590
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:38,760
Speaker 4: Did you hear the question.

591
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:43,400
Speaker 3: What part of your history participates in what you presently

592
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:51,840
call chemistry? Compatibility, masculinity, femininity, loyalty, disrespect, abandonment, love, or God.

593
00:43:53,079 --> 00:43:58,039
This does not make my work superior to Tony Gaskin's work,

594
00:43:58,519 --> 00:44:03,239
or Steven Speaks or doctor Thelma Brien or Kevin Samuel's

595
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:05,719
Eon Levanz and RC Blakes.

596
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:06,400
Speaker 4: Or anybody else.

597
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:09,800
Speaker 3: This doesn't threaten anybody's platform or work.

598
00:44:10,559 --> 00:44:11,599
Speaker 4: My work doesn't do that.

599
00:44:13,599 --> 00:44:19,559
Speaker 3: Many of them address dimensions of relationship life that deserve examination,

600
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:25,679
and in certain areas, have expertise that I do not.

601
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:32,559
They possess an expertise that I do not. Right, the

602
00:44:32,639 --> 00:44:36,440
distinction lies in the question I refuse to stop asking

603
00:44:37,119 --> 00:44:42,880
what sits underneath your answer? If someone tells you to

604
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:46,280
know your worth, I want to investigate the architecture that

605
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:49,480
taught you what worth meant?

606
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:57,239
Speaker 4: Who established the value? Do you understand? I want to know.

607
00:44:57,360 --> 00:44:59,719
Speaker 3: If someone tells you to choose better, I want to

608
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:05,360
invent instigate the chooser. My philosophy begins where relationship advice

609
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:12,280
often ends. Typically, the relationship advice world is giving advice

610
00:45:12,599 --> 00:45:16,840
to a person who wants to then use it to

611
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:22,239
change a circumstance, to change a situation, to get ultimately

612
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:26,239
what they want from something. Typically, the advice is not

613
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:33,079
centered on becoming the authentic true self or finding self

614
00:45:33,119 --> 00:45:38,800
resonance resonance within this? How do you resonate within you?

615
00:45:39,079 --> 00:45:46,800
Without judgment, without verdict, without self prosecution DC They come

616
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:48,760
to you and say how do I get this? How

617
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:53,199
do I do that? I don't do that. That's why

618
00:45:53,199 --> 00:45:58,880
I say my philosophy begins where relationship advice ends. I

619
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:06,400
use intimate relationship as a doorway into higher consciousness, identity, culture, psychology, spirituality, perception,

620
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:11,000
and the hidden assumptions through which human beings experience one another.

621
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:14,519
This is why I believe my voice matters in this space.

622
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:20,000
I am not asking people to merely become better at

623
00:46:20,159 --> 00:46:24,159
intimate relationships. I am asking whether relationships can make us

624
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:29,760
more conscious of the person who keeps creating them.

625
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:34,840
Speaker 4: That's what my work is about. We got callers on

626
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:36,119
the line. I want to get him in here right now.

627
00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:38,800
Lee Roy from.

628
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:44,480
Speaker 3: Inglewood, California, Legendary Inglewood with legendary Leroy.

629
00:46:44,559 --> 00:46:46,800
Speaker 4: He has returned to the scene of the conversation. What

630
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:48,480
are your thoughts on tonight's topic?

631
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:51,400
Speaker 8: Well, first and foremost, can you hear me clearly?

632
00:46:51,679 --> 00:46:54,840
Speaker 4: Yes, sir, all right, wonderful man.

633
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:58,800
Speaker 8: While everybody was giving you your eulogies, I said, let

634
00:46:58,800 --> 00:46:59,800
me chime in and give.

635
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:00,400
Speaker 5: Him my right.

636
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:03,920
Speaker 4: A eulogy for real.

637
00:47:04,199 --> 00:47:07,119
Speaker 8: Yes, you know you were Jesus kind words you know,

638
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:11,440
good word you know, and these people are they're calling in.

639
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:14,159
Speaker 15: Like you know, so I remember you were twenty five

640
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:17,880
years ago, so you know when I found you, it

641
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:21,800
was fifteen years ago. And you know, and I remember

642
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:25,440
when I first found you as well, and it was

643
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:28,800
like the first time ever I saw.

644
00:47:32,639 --> 00:47:39,480
Speaker 8: I felt this negro thought he was fine, here we

645
00:47:39,559 --> 00:47:43,079
go and you and you were and you are you

646
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:48,039
wiser now? You were smart then, but you're wiser now,

647
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:53,000
and you so much kinder. Shitler, No, you are man.

648
00:47:53,039 --> 00:47:54,840
You know, you used to go a hard body. You

649
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:58,079
used to go in I mean blazing, and now you

650
00:47:58,199 --> 00:48:00,800
be treating you know, the religious people that the NFS

651
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:04,559
a lot kinder. And when I was listening to you

652
00:48:04,599 --> 00:48:09,039
share about how this young lady in your teenage years

653
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:14,639
ignited you towards this journey, I got sensitive inside, you know.

654
00:48:14,639 --> 00:48:17,280
I started thinking about lyone or Ritchie another, breakups on

655
00:48:17,679 --> 00:48:22,119
what now hello, yeah, no, you know what I mean,

656
00:48:22,199 --> 00:48:28,360
And it was like, you know, it's painful oftentimes when

657
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:30,159
we get on these Johnnys, and then it leads to

658
00:48:30,199 --> 00:48:32,320
a certain type of loneliness until we learn how to

659
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:36,320
come back to ourselves. And sadly, most of the people

660
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:38,039
that I know for a fact that I deal with

661
00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:42,519
They haven't done that much work. They would rather argue

662
00:48:42,559 --> 00:48:47,440
with me than the sources that I share, and they

663
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:53,320
would get mad because me acknowledging that I'm incomplete. But

664
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:55,960
yet it's still qualified to give them answers to question

665
00:48:56,039 --> 00:48:57,719
that they've had for ten or fifteen years, and they

666
00:48:57,719 --> 00:48:59,480
ain't getting answers for from the places that they're going

667
00:48:59,519 --> 00:49:02,639
to get them from. All I said. I said all

668
00:49:02,679 --> 00:49:05,800
that to say, brother, fail your journey. I love yourself

669
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:13,639
definition being issue in real time right and acknowledging that

670
00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:16,719
up front so that the adepts can get what they

671
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:21,159
need and the ns can get their bells wrong without

672
00:49:21,159 --> 00:49:23,599
you beating up on them like you used to. You

673
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:26,960
kind of pulling the people's hands and moving them along

674
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:28,519
in a better way now. And I just want to

675
00:49:28,519 --> 00:49:32,360
thank you for being a very good, thin thing and

676
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:34,360
a kind individual with the teaching. Appreciate you.

677
00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:37,840
Speaker 4: Guess what you just did, good brother man.

678
00:49:38,079 --> 00:49:40,679
Speaker 8: We brought Inglewood, City of Champions in the building.

679
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:42,800
Speaker 4: Yes, sir, Inglewood in the building. If you want to

680
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:44,159
bring your city in the building, all you got to

681
00:49:44,199 --> 00:49:44,719
do is call me.

682
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:48,159
Speaker 3: One ain't hundred nine twenty fifteen eighty Listen There's more

683
00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:51,599
to come when we come forward.

684
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:55,960
Speaker 4: Await, hold on, hold on story time, the music. Oh

685
00:49:56,039 --> 00:50:01,599
my goodness, Faith Evans, what is this night?

686
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:07,920
Speaker 3: Ninety four ninety three, I'm just becoming a music executive.

687
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:15,800
Loud RCA Records Senior VP of West Coast an R

688
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:22,800
Steve Rifkin, hired me man oh Man as Chevitz. This

689
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:27,400
is when I was dating the Laker girl. She was

690
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:32,079
already in a relationship Scorpio. She had been in this

691
00:50:32,159 --> 00:50:34,320
relationship for about.

692
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:40,119
Speaker 4: Six years. I met her in a club in Pasadena.

693
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:43,639
I was there to see an artist. She was with

694
00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:49,480
her friends. She was playing pool. She had a some

695
00:50:49,599 --> 00:50:52,840
type of brace on her knee because she injured herself

696
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:55,679
on the court. Right.

697
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:01,800
Speaker 3: Gorgeous, beautiful little scorpio. Oh five, my god.

698
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:08,039
Speaker 4: I was twenty four, she was twenty seven going on

699
00:51:08,079 --> 00:51:10,599
twenty eight, and.

700
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:20,320
Speaker 3: We locked eyes. I gave her my card, Yeah, she

701
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:26,360
took it. She told me she had a dude. I said,

702
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:32,920
it's cool, and then I received a call at my desk.

703
00:51:33,159 --> 00:51:38,079
The next day, I was at Loud listening to demos.

704
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:41,239
I think at the time the demo had was ras

705
00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:45,760
Cast and I love Rascast. I was like, oh, I'm

706
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:49,000
gonna sign this guy. But I got this phone call

707
00:51:49,519 --> 00:51:51,159
and it was the young lady.

708
00:51:53,679 --> 00:51:55,760
Speaker 4: She told me she was in a relationship. It was serious,

709
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:56,320
and I was like, all.

710
00:51:56,320 --> 00:52:01,000
Speaker 3: Right, that's cool. But then she asked me to go

711
00:52:01,039 --> 00:52:08,039
to the movies, and that's when I knew, yeah.

712
00:52:07,079 --> 00:52:07,760
Speaker 4: I'm in here.

713
00:52:10,599 --> 00:52:13,039
Speaker 3: And then she tried to play the older woman thing

714
00:52:13,159 --> 00:52:16,159
on me, like, oh, you don't know what to do

715
00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:20,079
with this, you young you, and I.

716
00:52:20,039 --> 00:52:27,119
Speaker 4: Told her, I said, be careful, be careful. She didn't

717
00:52:27,119 --> 00:52:31,000
believe me. And what's interesting about this relationship.

718
00:52:31,039 --> 00:52:33,199
Speaker 3: I don't want to go into the details, but this

719
00:52:33,599 --> 00:52:36,480
song found out the girl could sing.

720
00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:38,840
Speaker 4: She put this record on.

721
00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:42,480
Speaker 3: In the car and she was singing like she was

722
00:52:42,559 --> 00:52:47,840
literally killing it. I was like, Wow, this girl is amazing.

723
00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:51,559
Until her dude found out, Hey.

724
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:59,920
Speaker 4: Play the record. Let's go play it from the beginning Farocian.

725
00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:04,920
Speaker 3: Oh, it's one of the best times of my life.

726
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:10,599
She lived in the back house, you know, and I

727
00:53:10,639 --> 00:53:17,239
would just slip in, slip out. And then one day.

728
00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:20,880
Speaker 4: Her father saw me walking up and he told me.

729
00:53:21,079 --> 00:53:22,920
He was like, hey, man, let me talk to you

730
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:23,559
for a second.

731
00:53:26,079 --> 00:53:29,639
Speaker 3: And I go talk to him and he says, what

732
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:35,519
do you see in my daughter. I was like, oh wow,

733
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:36,719
here we go.

734
00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:38,599
Speaker 4: He said, what do you see in her?

735
00:53:39,679 --> 00:53:43,280
Speaker 3: He said, she's twenty seven, she's still watching Disney movies.

736
00:53:43,599 --> 00:53:48,719
He said, but I watched you at an event we

737
00:53:48,719 --> 00:53:53,639
were at. He said, you didn't interact with none of

738
00:53:53,679 --> 00:53:56,079
the people, none of the family members.

739
00:53:57,039 --> 00:53:58,679
Speaker 4: He said, I saw you.

740
00:53:58,679 --> 00:54:02,639
Speaker 3: You went into the line library and grabbed three or

741
00:54:02,719 --> 00:54:06,199
four books and sat down the entire time. I went

742
00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:09,400
somewhere with her with her family, and he was like,

743
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:14,519
I need to know who you are, and when I

744
00:54:14,559 --> 00:54:19,199
tell you, the relationship with me and the girl went away.

745
00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:23,880
Even though she was she was wrapped around me like

746
00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:26,760
an anaconda down in the Amazon.

747
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:29,559
Speaker 4: Man. She was whoo, she was bad whoop.

748
00:54:30,159 --> 00:54:33,159
Speaker 3: But the relationship went away because she was already with

749
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:42,079
someone but her. Her father and I became friends because

750
00:54:42,119 --> 00:54:48,199
he was fascinated by my mind, and we stayed friends.

751
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:57,440
Speaker 4: Until he died. Me and the girl's father became road dogs.

752
00:54:57,480 --> 00:55:02,360
Speaker 16: He was older and he was wild, but he saw

753
00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:07,480
something in me, and he was like, He told me, literally,

754
00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:13,760
you can't be with her, but because she's beautiful, and maybe.

755
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:14,960
Speaker 4: The sex, he's got to be the sex.

756
00:55:15,039 --> 00:55:17,800
Speaker 3: He was talking to me raw He was like, Yo,

757
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:20,840
it can't be nothing else because I saw what you

758
00:55:21,039 --> 00:55:21,559
was reading.

759
00:55:21,639 --> 00:55:21,880
Speaker 4: Man.

760
00:55:24,199 --> 00:55:28,000
Speaker 3: When we come forward, it's not over. You're gonna learn

761
00:55:28,039 --> 00:55:30,559
some more about Zoe William Hello.

762
00:55:31,360 --> 00:55:34,639
Speaker 17: I'm Howard Steele. I was privileged to study and work

763
00:55:34,679 --> 00:55:38,239
in England for eighteen years, beginning my doctoral studies at

764
00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:41,119
a time when doctor John Bowlby still kept office hours

765
00:55:41,159 --> 00:55:44,320
at the Tavistalk Clinic, where he spent most of his

766
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:45,159
working life.

767
00:55:46,119 --> 00:55:49,440
Speaker 11: Tachment is an integral part of human nature, from the

768
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:55,880
cradle to the grave. It may be it's very prominent

769
00:55:56,039 --> 00:56:02,320
in early childhood about it's true of you today.

770
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:06,719
Speaker 17: Doctor John Bowlby was a psychiatrist whose life spanned most

771
00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:10,440
of the twentieth century. He devoted his life to understanding

772
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:13,960
and promoting mental health, seeing the origins of such health

773
00:56:14,159 --> 00:56:16,800
as being the ability to rely on another person when

774
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:17,679
we are distressed.

775
00:56:18,599 --> 00:56:22,039
Speaker 13: It's kind of hard for me because I didn't know

776
00:56:22,159 --> 00:56:23,519
at first how to treat.

777
00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:25,639
Speaker 17: My children so ch and to share joys with them

778
00:56:25,639 --> 00:56:26,079
as well.

779
00:56:26,239 --> 00:56:29,239
Speaker 4: You know she's gonna become with somebody, you know.

780
00:56:29,679 --> 00:56:40,440
Speaker 3: That Gosh, that attachment piece is heavy. That troop record,

781
00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:41,960
that's a sleeper record.

782
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:48,239
Speaker 4: A lot of people slept on that deeper album. Only

783
00:56:48,280 --> 00:56:54,719
When I Laugh is the name of the record. Tonight's

784
00:56:54,719 --> 00:56:55,639
topic is deep.

785
00:56:57,480 --> 00:57:01,800
Speaker 3: I'm sharing so much about myself and my journey and

786
00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:08,719
what distinguishes me from a lot of the social media.

787
00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:16,679
First off, I'm in school for psychology. I've written books

788
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:21,440
before I was in school that people who were in

789
00:57:21,519 --> 00:57:26,440
school used to write their dissertation to. If you don't know,

790
00:57:26,559 --> 00:57:29,599
you better ask somebody. The Relationship Dismount how to stick

791
00:57:29,599 --> 00:57:33,360
the landing when exiting a toxic relationship. Last week we

792
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:35,400
had a young lady shout out to Jasmine up in

793
00:57:35,559 --> 00:57:41,960
Washington State. She caused the Relationship dismount book to go

794
00:57:42,199 --> 00:57:47,599
viral because of an impromptu conversation she had with an

795
00:57:47,599 --> 00:57:52,000
African American couple in a park and randomly the couple

796
00:57:52,559 --> 00:57:57,840
suggested my book. That video when she came on the

797
00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:00,599
Voice of Reason, what was it last week? And it

798
00:58:00,639 --> 00:58:05,159
was last week Monday, I believe she came on and

799
00:58:05,199 --> 00:58:11,480
that video was at eight hundred thousand views. She dropped

800
00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:15,559
at August sixth, That Monday was the ninth or the

801
00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:17,599
eleventh or tenth or something.

802
00:58:17,880 --> 00:58:20,440
Speaker 4: Four days later it was at eight hundred thousand views.

803
00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:26,840
Speaker 3: It's now at one point three million views, and that

804
00:58:27,159 --> 00:58:29,039
caused the relationship dismount.

805
00:58:29,079 --> 00:58:32,280
Speaker 4: My book, The Skyrocket. Doctor Joshawna.

806
00:58:32,360 --> 00:58:37,519
Speaker 3: Johnson says she even used my book as a lightweight textbook.

807
00:58:40,360 --> 00:58:40,800
Speaker 4: All right.

808
00:58:42,519 --> 00:58:46,440
Speaker 3: I had a friend down in Kentucky, went to Kentucky State.

809
00:58:46,519 --> 00:58:51,079
He used my book to write his dissertation. We have

810
00:58:51,119 --> 00:58:54,159
a brother that used to come on the show quite frequently,

811
00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:58,960
Tony Massey. He wrote his dissertation to the Relationship Dismount.

812
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:01,519
Speaker 4: This is all before I went to school for this stuff.

813
00:59:03,519 --> 00:59:06,320
Speaker 3: Doctor Alan Berger, who just wrote the forward to my

814
00:59:06,559 --> 00:59:12,800
latest book, he too, ooh, you're a natural therapist. I've

815
00:59:12,840 --> 00:59:16,039
got fifty years in the game, and you're a natural therapist.

816
00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:18,840
Speaker 4: But I don't claim any of that.

817
00:59:20,599 --> 00:59:22,440
Speaker 3: The only reason why I went back to school is

818
00:59:22,480 --> 00:59:27,679
because my uncle, who's eighty years old, convinced me. He said,

819
00:59:27,719 --> 00:59:31,199
you've already done the work. Just go back and get

820
00:59:31,239 --> 00:59:32,079
the paper.

821
00:59:33,360 --> 00:59:34,199
Speaker 4: Just finish it up.

822
00:59:36,360 --> 00:59:40,559
Speaker 3: I'm sharing who I am, why my voice matters. But

823
00:59:40,599 --> 00:59:43,719
I'm here to tell you I created load bearing mind

824
00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:50,480
shifting concepts like the Holographic Relationship, the Shrouded Lighthouse, and

825
00:59:50,559 --> 00:59:56,320
the relationship Dismount books well before I decided to go

826
00:59:56,480 --> 01:00:02,159
back to finish up right, But just in case you

827
01:00:02,280 --> 01:00:11,719
need further distinctions, here's some concepts that I'm pushing on

828
01:00:11,840 --> 01:00:16,719
this platform. You already know need as the original sin,

829
01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:22,400
the belief in lack before the relationship even begins, like

830
01:00:22,480 --> 01:00:25,599
I need this person to fulfill my needs. I know

831
01:00:25,639 --> 01:00:29,800
it's psychologically counterintuitive, and I'm trying to upend and turn

832
01:00:29,880 --> 01:00:34,360
over every apple cart that these old, dead white men created.

833
01:00:35,159 --> 01:00:40,239
I'm trying to destabilize all of those theories. My radical

834
01:00:40,280 --> 01:00:43,800
move is to ask whether psychological need begins with a

835
01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:49,599
metaphysical mistake. I lack something essential, therefore somebody outside of

836
01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:52,079
me must provide it for me.

837
01:00:52,519 --> 01:00:57,639
Speaker 4: So I've framed it as need as the original sin. Right.

838
01:00:58,719 --> 01:01:04,000
Speaker 3: Sure, we need in a developmental sense when we're children,

839
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:10,000
but we don't have to need as adults. We have

840
01:01:10,039 --> 01:01:14,400
the capacity to fulfill our own needs internally self esteem,

841
01:01:14,440 --> 01:01:21,320
self worth, self approval, self validation, self satisfaction, happiness, self acceptance.

842
01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:24,480
We have the power to do that, but we outsource it.

843
01:01:24,559 --> 01:01:24,840
Speaker 4: Why.

844
01:01:26,199 --> 01:01:31,199
Speaker 3: That's why I've I've pushed and leaned into need as

845
01:01:31,239 --> 01:01:32,199
the original sin.

846
01:01:33,800 --> 01:01:34,039
Speaker 4: Right.

847
01:01:35,719 --> 01:01:39,880
Speaker 3: Once that premise gets installed, the premise of I lack

848
01:01:39,960 --> 01:01:44,559
something essential therefore somebody outside me of me must provide it.

849
01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:51,920
Once that premise gets installed, love can mutate into acquisition, validation, possession, control, reassurance,

850
01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:57,480
and dependency. Right, the partner becomes responsible for repairing an

851
01:01:57,519 --> 01:02:02,360
alleged absence in the soul Oh My Shrouded Lighthouse book

852
01:02:02,599 --> 01:02:08,880
repeatedly distinguishes inner revolution from external desire and asks whether

853
01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:14,239
we can love without requiring another person to conform to

854
01:02:14,360 --> 01:02:22,880
our expectations. Right, I've got more concepts that I want

855
01:02:22,920 --> 01:02:23,320
to share.

856
01:02:24,800 --> 01:02:25,440
Speaker 4: Are you ready?

857
01:02:25,800 --> 01:02:29,280
Speaker 3: Because I'm trying to distinguish my voice from everybody else's.

858
01:02:29,280 --> 01:02:31,559
I know everybody A sam relationship is a mirror. But

859
01:02:31,599 --> 01:02:36,679
they're not telling you that's Christianna Murti. They're not linking

860
01:02:37,239 --> 01:02:42,599
Ross Rossenberg, right, the human magnet syndrome. They're not linking

861
01:02:42,639 --> 01:02:44,480
it to attachment theory.

862
01:02:45,559 --> 01:02:45,840
Speaker 4: Right.

863
01:02:45,960 --> 01:02:50,400
Speaker 3: The avoidance and the anxious folk are typically attracted to

864
01:02:50,480 --> 01:02:55,599
each other. Like ross Rossenberg points out that the narcissists

865
01:02:55,599 --> 01:02:59,400
and the codependent are attracted to each other. They just

866
01:02:59,519 --> 01:03:03,280
throw it out there superficially, relationship is a merriat. Yeah,

867
01:03:03,320 --> 01:03:06,000
but what does that mean and how does that show

868
01:03:06,079 --> 01:03:12,559
up clinically psychologically metaphysically spiritually, they don't go that deep.

869
01:03:12,599 --> 01:03:16,159
I'm not here to crucify. I'm not here to pathologize.

870
01:03:16,199 --> 01:03:18,440
We need every voice.

871
01:03:18,599 --> 01:03:20,159
Speaker 4: But I'm distinguishing mine.

872
01:03:20,199 --> 01:03:25,119
Speaker 3: Tonight when we come forward more from the VR ladies

873
01:03:25,159 --> 01:03:28,760
and gentlemen, we rolling down.

874
01:03:28,639 --> 01:03:35,559
Speaker 4: PC right now. My playlist has always been my co host.

875
01:03:35,679 --> 01:03:37,920
Speaker 3: Come on, man, y'all know we in here cooking the

876
01:03:38,039 --> 01:03:41,760
night this last time you heard this John B record,

877
01:03:43,400 --> 01:03:48,280
we turned up tonight the Voice of Reason sharing a

878
01:03:48,280 --> 01:03:54,559
bit of himself. I've been on one lately and this

879
01:03:54,719 --> 01:03:57,480
is like a primer. Who is Zoe Williams? What is

880
01:03:57,519 --> 01:04:00,960
his philosophy? Why should we even listen? Why do we

881
01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:01,599
even care?

882
01:04:04,039 --> 01:04:04,119
Speaker 5: So?

883
01:04:05,119 --> 01:04:12,320
Speaker 3: I was sharing, you know, need as the first relational sin.

884
01:04:13,239 --> 01:04:14,440
Speaker 4: I don't believe.

885
01:04:14,400 --> 01:04:19,519
Speaker 3: We're supposed to fulfill each other's needs. I believe our

886
01:04:19,599 --> 01:04:23,079
needs were supposed to be fulfilled in childhood, and when

887
01:04:23,079 --> 01:04:28,039
they weren't, a survival system kicked on, and then we

888
01:04:28,119 --> 01:04:31,480
carried that into adult relationships, and then we normalized it.

889
01:04:31,519 --> 01:04:37,119
I think we're I think that's what spiritual evolution, self

890
01:04:37,159 --> 01:04:43,000
actualization or self realization as para Mahanza Yogananda called it

891
01:04:43,239 --> 01:04:47,599
the Buddhists call it moksha or nirvana. I believe when

892
01:04:47,639 --> 01:04:52,039
there's this transcendence of the small ego, you understand that

893
01:04:52,119 --> 01:04:55,159
there is communion with the source of all that is

894
01:04:55,199 --> 01:05:00,280
the source, the foundational reality of existence. Quantum physicists call

895
01:05:00,559 --> 01:05:06,159
God consciousness right infinite consciousness. I believe these ancient spiritual

896
01:05:06,239 --> 01:05:09,199
practices could teach us how to get there. Some people

897
01:05:09,239 --> 01:05:13,119
go ayahuasca, or they lick the frog, but they get

898
01:05:13,159 --> 01:05:17,519
outside of the broken, fragile, little ego that needs. I

899
01:05:17,599 --> 01:05:21,079
believe love is a conduit, or intimate relationships is a

900
01:05:21,119 --> 01:05:23,960
conduit for that. I believe it's a spiritual conduit that

901
01:05:24,360 --> 01:05:30,639
ends needing, but it may end the relationship too. And

902
01:05:30,719 --> 01:05:34,320
I believe many of us are okay with need. So

903
01:05:34,480 --> 01:05:37,960
long as we're needed, here we go.

904
01:05:39,519 --> 01:05:41,039
Speaker 4: Another concept I have.

905
01:05:43,039 --> 01:05:46,559
Speaker 3: I added on too Krishnamerti's work in my Holographic Relationship

906
01:05:46,599 --> 01:05:53,880
book the relationship as a holographic event rather than a

907
01:05:53,920 --> 01:06:02,159
two person transaction. Krishnamurti gives relationship as a mirror. I

908
01:06:02,360 --> 01:06:06,880
deliberately say the mirror is the mirror. Metaphorm is insufficient.

909
01:06:07,320 --> 01:06:16,199
Your relationship becomes a multi dimensional return of history, trauma, belief, environment, identity, culture, god,

910
01:06:16,639 --> 01:06:22,000
and accumulated experiences. In my Holographic Relationship book, I explicitly

911
01:06:22,239 --> 01:06:28,880
argue that relationships represent your whole story rather than an

912
01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:31,639
isolated present interaction.

913
01:06:33,159 --> 01:06:33,360
Speaker 4: Right.

914
01:06:34,920 --> 01:06:40,519
Speaker 3: I believe that the intimate holographic connection has lineage.

915
01:06:40,679 --> 01:06:42,599
Speaker 4: Right, its systemic.

916
01:06:44,440 --> 01:06:48,840
Speaker 3: Relocation into intimate relationships is part of your distinct or

917
01:06:48,880 --> 01:06:54,639
part of my distinct architecture for relationships. I also use

918
01:06:54,760 --> 01:07:05,800
quantum mechanics as a relational questioning language. Right, This is

919
01:07:05,840 --> 01:07:11,519
one of This is one of my little tricks.

920
01:07:11,599 --> 01:07:11,760
Speaker 4: Right.

921
01:07:11,880 --> 01:07:16,519
Speaker 3: I love quantum mechanics, I love quantum physics in general.

922
01:07:20,239 --> 01:07:27,480
And I built an entire relationship vocabulary around collapse, entropy, entanglement, uncertainty,

923
01:07:27,599 --> 01:07:29,559
fine tuning, and information.

924
01:07:30,239 --> 01:07:31,119
Speaker 4: Again, that is the.

925
01:07:31,079 --> 01:07:35,440
Speaker 3: Holographic Relationship book where I took these scientific principles and

926
01:07:35,480 --> 01:07:37,679
applied them to intimate relationship.

927
01:07:37,920 --> 01:07:39,639
Speaker 4: This was my twenty nineteen book.

928
01:07:41,559 --> 01:07:47,320
Speaker 3: Right, And like I said, it separates me from you know,

929
01:07:47,679 --> 01:07:49,280
conventional dating content.

930
01:07:49,480 --> 01:07:52,280
Speaker 4: Right. Kevin Samuels is.

931
01:07:52,199 --> 01:07:58,840
Speaker 3: Not organizing mate market analysis through uncertainty and entanglement. Gaskins

932
01:07:58,960 --> 01:08:05,360
is not instructing boundaries through holographic information theory. Thelma Bryant

933
01:08:05,960 --> 01:08:11,159
thema Bryant is not her clinical framework, which is amazing

934
01:08:11,280 --> 01:08:18,359
work does not depend on quantum relational analogy. That isn't

935
01:08:18,399 --> 01:08:21,159
to say their information is more important than mine and

936
01:08:21,239 --> 01:08:24,079
mine is less important than theirs. Like I said, I

937
01:08:24,119 --> 01:08:28,880
believe every voice, every perspective has value, and that has

938
01:08:28,960 --> 01:08:32,520
been part of the culture of the Voice of Reason show.

939
01:08:32,760 --> 01:08:35,399
In terms of the callers, I don't tell you how

940
01:08:35,399 --> 01:08:40,119
to answer, and I don't push back on your answer.

941
01:08:40,800 --> 01:08:46,960
I allow you to share your perspective. Right, That's important

942
01:08:46,960 --> 01:08:51,560
to me. Another concept that I talk about that differs

943
01:08:51,600 --> 01:08:57,560
from everybody else, the observer is inside the relationship experiment.

944
01:08:58,680 --> 01:08:58,920
Speaker 4: Right.

945
01:09:00,479 --> 01:09:04,520
Speaker 3: Of course, I'm interested in the wave function collapse of

946
01:09:04,600 --> 01:09:12,279
quantum mechanics. Right, and it becomes psychologically important when joined

947
01:09:12,279 --> 01:09:17,279
to bias, perception, and observation. Again, my Holographic Relationship book

948
01:09:17,600 --> 01:09:24,359
explicitly places personal history and bias beside the observer question

949
01:09:24,880 --> 01:09:34,880
and ask how judgment participates in the experienced relational reality?

950
01:09:35,600 --> 01:09:35,840
Speaker 4: Right?

951
01:09:37,520 --> 01:09:42,960
Speaker 3: Can you objectively diagnose a relationship while your history constitutes

952
01:09:43,079 --> 01:09:47,359
part of the apparatus performing the diagnosis? I ask these

953
01:09:47,399 --> 01:09:50,439
types of questions, right.

954
01:09:51,640 --> 01:09:53,119
Speaker 4: A lot of people are not asking.

955
01:09:52,840 --> 01:10:00,960
Speaker 3: These questions, right, And that's Okay, I just want you

956
01:10:01,039 --> 01:10:06,159
guys to understand we are different and we are valuable.

957
01:10:06,920 --> 01:10:11,800
I also talk about relational fine tuning. Rather than asking

958
01:10:11,920 --> 01:10:17,760
merely why did I choose this terrible person, my metaphorical

959
01:10:18,039 --> 01:10:24,039
or metaphysical inquiry asks why this particular person activates this

960
01:10:24,079 --> 01:10:30,359
particular thing in you at this point in your development.

961
01:10:31,600 --> 01:10:36,800
I ask that that's part of my philosophy. Of course,

962
01:10:36,920 --> 01:10:43,159
I have merged Western attachment theory with Buddhist non attachment.

963
01:10:45,199 --> 01:10:50,560
Right most relationship content creators inhibit one side of this

964
01:10:51,640 --> 01:10:57,920
apparent contradiction. Western psychology ask how attachment organizes relationship. Buddhism

965
01:10:58,039 --> 01:11:01,720
investigates howluces suffering.

966
01:11:01,760 --> 01:11:02,720
Speaker 4: I've merged the two.

967
01:11:04,319 --> 01:11:08,720
Speaker 3: You put Boby or I put Boby and Buddha in

968
01:11:08,800 --> 01:11:15,760
the same room. Of course, we talk about duka. Do

969
01:11:15,800 --> 01:11:21,760
you understand what I'm saying duka, which is suffering? So

970
01:11:22,880 --> 01:11:26,520
I just wanted to reintroduce myself to people who might

971
01:11:26,560 --> 01:11:37,159
be new to the channel spirituality, psychology, metaphysics, quantum mechanics, consciousness,

972
01:11:38,000 --> 01:11:45,359
right Eastern traditions, African traditions, the collectivistic society and their traditions.

973
01:11:45,680 --> 01:11:48,720
Speaker 4: I merge them all right.

974
01:11:48,960 --> 01:11:53,880
Speaker 3: We don't leave out psychology. Psychology is welcomed as well,

975
01:11:53,920 --> 01:11:57,279
but I'm merging it all because we need a broader,

976
01:11:57,800 --> 01:12:02,560
more expansive answer for some of the questions that maybe

977
01:12:02,600 --> 01:12:09,039
just psychology alone can't answer. Listen, I start the conversations.

978
01:12:09,079 --> 01:12:11,119
It's up to you to finish them. It's not my

979
01:12:11,359 --> 01:12:14,479
job to convince you what to think, but I do

980
01:12:14,560 --> 01:12:16,720
want you to think about what we talked about tonight.

981
01:12:17,319 --> 01:12:19,239
Speaker 4: When we come forward, it'll be a new week and

982
01:12:19,319 --> 01:12:22,000
I'll have four new slappers for you. I'm Zoe Williams,

983
01:12:22,439 --> 01:12:23,159
and I'll holler