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Speaker 1: I want to welcome everyone back to the Peak Kenyanas show. Thomas,

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how are you done?

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Speaker 2: I'm well. I've been recuperating from being on the road

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in the Old Glory Club event, which was fantastic. You know,

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I just the road kind of wears me out, but

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the event was great. But I've I've been trying to

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catch up on some I got some things in the can,

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even if it doesn't seem like I'm busy, like I'm

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always working on stuff, you know. So yeah, things are well, man,

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I appreciate you hosting me as always awesome.

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Speaker 1: Well, we're going to start something new tonight, and why

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don't you introduce it? I think I think this one,

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maybe more than anything we've ever done, people are going

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to have questions about, especially if they do not know

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the subject, because, let's face it, these are this is

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a group of people that from the outside looking in,

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you'd be why are you talking about them? Yeah, you'd

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ask the question, why are you talking about them?

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Speaker 2: Well, it's a huge topic. That's why I needed extra

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time to prep for it. Then I still it's going

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to take a few episodes to fully flesh it out,

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and it touches and concerns things that far supersede and

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transcend typical Cold War intrigues and you know, violence between

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the superpowers, sort of open war. It wasn't typical ledgered

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main of the sort that you know characterized the dynamic,

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especially in the final phase of the Cold War, from

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you know, the America's defeat and Vietnam until until the

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Wall came down. We're talking, of course about the bider

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Minehoff Gang or colloquially the Red Army faction. They called

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themselves the Roads Army fraction, and that was deliberate. It

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was somewhat mistranslated, but also newspeople and law enforcement and

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security state types the thought of the typo, but those

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are deliberate. You know. The idea is that there's an

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organic whole that constituted the dialectical process as regards communism,

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and what the boder Minehoff Gang or group or army

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represented was this fractious element that was the vanguard of

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the dialectical process as well as something that was organically

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developing in real time. You know, now, on the surface,

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these kids were just and most of our kids, and

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there's three iterations that boder Minehoff slash Red Army Faction

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and we'll get into that at a glance. And the

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way it was presented in Western media was basically that

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these were these were just radicalized youth from the nineteen

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sixty eight or student movement who were kind of like

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the Weatherman, but you know, much more violent and much

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more well organized operationally. That's not true at all. They

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were both a proxy of the Minister for Stought Security,

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the Stazi, as well as very much, in my opinion,

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a European liberationist element. Now what do I mean by that?

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One of the founders of the Bottom minehoff Gang Slash

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wrotees army frauction was horse to Mahler like people in

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the right, probably no maler because in the two thousands

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he went to prison for quote Holocaust denial or smaller

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as a national socialist Okay, he always was, you know.

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And the Spiegel as well as as well as these

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internal security types they presented model or rather as some

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crazy old man for clicking up with the NPD and

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and beginning to advocate you know, these national socis ideas

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or some kind of cynic He's neither of those things, okay.

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If you were interested in liberating, in European liberation, if

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you viewed America slash NATO as like you're op as

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like you're the enemy of your people, you know, which

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many many many Germans did on the right. Your only

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path to liberation is some kind of alliance with the

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Soviet Union, you know, during the Cold War, just as

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now in geostrategic terms, the only path to German liberation

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is is complex andd it depends with Russia. Okay. So

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like why would got like mol or be advocating communism?

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People don't if people have to understand that, especially during

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the Cold War and especially in Germany, you know, the

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dialectical process is a real thing. Like whether you believe

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it's like the hand of providence or the cutting of reason,

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you know, some kind of invisible hand in man's affairs

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that is the prime moent of history, or do you

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believe it's just you know, man's kind of owned dialectic

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and discursive interaction with others that kind of like creates

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this almost like feedback loop of intellectual production. Like whatever

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you believe that it is, it's a real thing, okay.

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And in nineteen seventy two, there were concept people's conceptual

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horizon was was was confined to the Cold War you

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couldn't think outside that box. Okay, there were like there

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were one off societies like Iran, you know that, and

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arguably you know, like Parnes Argentina, but I ran obviously

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as like a more ideologically pure example that carved out

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like truly third position regimes. But that's exactly the where

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they were outliers, okay. And it was it wasn't just

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a matter of it wasn't just a matter of optics

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or like a people like molars saying like well we

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shouldn't we shouldn't advocate national socialisms that will make people upset.

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It's like that wasn't even possible, you know. It wasn't

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just a matter of like making people upset or or

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being with the times. It's like it wouldn't have a

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context or make any sense, you know. And and again

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for context, you know the d DR that the bottom

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mine off action were all West Germans. But for context,

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the d d R, again we covered this in one

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of our earlier episodes, and I'll be reave some of

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these things. Now, they were literally at war with Israel, okay,

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as was the USSR. But the d d R not

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only were there a spear point kind of like a

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share punked of of warsaw pack power you know, by proxy,

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especially in the Third World. But there was, there was,

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There wasn't. There was, in fact, like an East German

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like foreign policy into itself. And they despised Israel and

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they viewed them not only as a bastion of you know,

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imperialism in the Leninist sense, you know, they viewed them

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as an obstacle to the proletarian revolution in the Near East,

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which was key, you know, owing the geo strategic factors

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and other things. But the like, like the East Germans

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were anti Zionists and like anti Jewish at the point

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that it's superseded pragmatic decisions relating to high politics and

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and and and and dialectical conclusions. You know, this this

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was this was payback for World War Two. Okay, you

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can you can tell me that it wasn't. But I

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don't accept that. Okay. The Communist party line anyway, with

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the Soviets would say, particularly when they were under pressure,

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you know in the nineteen eighties, uh supposedly for you know,

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anti Semitic legislation, like they said that, you know, it's

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not like Jews, like they're like, why would we why

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would we emphasize Jewish stuffering in the Wor War too,

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we lost twenty five million people, you know, like we

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we vanquished the Third Reich. Like why we're not gonna

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We're not gonna count how to some reactionary Jewish identity,

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They just like refuse to acknowledge it, you know, so again,

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you know, I refer people to pulp Godfreid, especially people

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who weren't alive during the Cold War, Like the left

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won the Cold War, but the warsaw packed left lost. Okay,

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Like we're not we're not talking about wocism. We're not

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talking about you know, guys who were sitting around reading

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full Co and Marcuza. We're not talking about you know,

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people who thought feminism was important. Then you know, we

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need to make the races kind of blend together, like

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that was not remotely within like Stalin's contemplation. That's like

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not at all. What like Marcus Lenni's priorities are you know,

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like like, uh like Marxist Lenin is the of the

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sort that uh, you know, ragined and warsaw packed. They

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might they might look at like the really between the

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sexes in the West is being you know, colored by

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like productive force determinism. They might look at like blacks.

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It's like a hyper exploited like you know, like proletary

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like lumping cast. But they didn't. But that's that, that's

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like where it stopped, Like it wouldn't occur to them

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to say, like, oh, you need you know, people's people's

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only path to fulfillment is like sexual expression. You know,

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we need we need to do away with with public

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morals and you know it's wrong for you know, men

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and women to find different roles in life like that.

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That's not then that wasn't just like an an East

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block and seat, Like I said, that's not the way

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Marxists think about things. That's why I object to when

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people claim everything that like it's Marxism, you know, like

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like Kamala Harris is the quote Marxist. That doesn't make

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any sense. Okay, Now that's not to say like Marxists

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don't have fucked up ideas. They do, but it's it's

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a different thing entirely. But now the Pozson conducts, I'm

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going to kind of start from the end the end

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of the Cold War because again, like what I partially

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my hypothesis, if you will, is that a like the

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Bottom Minehoff Gang and its three iterations was at base

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a European liberationist tendency. That you know, it was fundamentally

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anti American, anti NATO for liberationist reasons. There were aspects

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of it and elements within it, particularly Horse Mahler, who

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wasn't just a founding personage. He was he was their lawyer.

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He was very much like kind of like the court

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philosopher of Bottom Minehoff. He was a national socialist. And finally,

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the final piece of my claim is that the uh,

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the Growth Army fraction, it was very much like an

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organ of the d d R. Okay, it was not

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this kind of like spontaneous organization of radicalized students like

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there there were such organizations, don't get me wrong. And

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you know, the the Bottom Minehoff Gang also began like

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in in in prison, okay. And as we'll see, there's

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there's a there was a strong situationist element too, and

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one of their key operators actually became radicalized in a

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psychiatric hospital. So these these were not conventional like college

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student radicals. But beyond that, again you'll see by their

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choice of targets, by their operational sophistication by their the

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overall pattern of of of their violence. They were equipped, trained, directed,

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schooled by a highly sophisticated revolutionary military actor, and that

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that actor was the d DR.

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Speaker 1: Were you aware that Mahler is still alive. Yeah, yeah,

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he's eighty eight years old. Yeah, he's a fascinating guy.

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If he was, if he was younger, and it was

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and my my German was better, I'd reach out to

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him and then try to try to take some of

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his testimony. But in any event, like why why am

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I saying we're gonna start at the end. Because the

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conclusion of the Cold War.

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Speaker 2: It it brings the light things that relating to my hypothesis.

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You know that in fact, you know, the wrote Army

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fraction was was in fact like a direct action element

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to the d d R. Okay in April nineteen ninety two,

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and not for context, you know this the Soviet Union

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no longer existed, you know, this was there, the kind

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of independent states, but the group of Soviet forces in

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Germany are finally like leaving now, like you know, put

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there the withdrawals like complete okay, in that and in

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in some kind of concrete terms, you know, regardless of

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the fact that you know, the Cold War was over

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now like about you know, two over two and a

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half years. You know that that final withdrawal of of

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a Soviet the Soviet military element was was kind of

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like where the Rubi me's the road, like truly the end,

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you know, at least and formerly divided Germany. This UH,

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this twenty three hundred word communicate in April ninety two

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was UH was sent to the UH, the French, the

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French press agency and interestingly, like the RIF, the bottom

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minehoff Gang, they they they they'd write their community case

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and all all lowercase type of letters which have rezoom

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was you know, in order to clarify that you know,

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these these communications were legitimate, you know, because that wasn't

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generally released, okay, But this communicate was sent to the

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French Press office and Bond, which of course you know

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was the in during the the days of a partition

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Germany was the capital of the bundest Republic. It stated

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that it was issued forth from the quote commandal level

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of RAF the RIF to organize itself into four different levels.

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There's the commando level, there was the prisoners, the resistance

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and the sympathizer, the political supporters, like the command over

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the direct action element, okay, like the prisoners or former

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command whos have been take former commanders who've been taken

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out of action, but whose interests and rights had had

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to be guarded. And this became a big aspect of RIF.

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Direct to action was you know, pressuring release of the

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prisoners or or you know, taking hostages and order to

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bargain the freedom of their people. The uh, the the

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quote resistance or people like Horse to malor you know

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who are like above above board, people you know, who

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were presenting the the that the Marxist Lennon his case,

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and the and the the revolutionary and and and the

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revolutionary paradigm that was you know, demanding the liberation of Europe,

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among other things. And obviously the sympathizers are are people

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who you know, aren't in a position you know, owing

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to you know, owing to social or professional station or

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or health or age, you know, to participate directly. Okay.

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So in other words, uh, the fact that issued forth

237
00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:55,000
from commandal level means that you know, these this is this,

238
00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:59,080
this is serious, Okay. These are people who who've been bloodied.

239
00:15:59,799 --> 00:16:08,759
Uh at that time, at that time, it had been

240
00:16:08,799 --> 00:16:14,039
about a year since there was any activity by RAF.

241
00:16:14,519 --> 00:16:15,879
But as we'll get into when we get done, the

242
00:16:15,879 --> 00:16:21,240
list of like some of their direct action operations. Uh

243
00:16:21,879 --> 00:16:23,720
even even at the very end they were hitting high

244
00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:32,720
profile targets. Okay. This communication was basically divided into two sections.

245
00:16:33,679 --> 00:16:37,519
The first is was basically like an elaborate, an elaborate

246
00:16:37,559 --> 00:16:44,120
but not you know, like but not overly worthy description

247
00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:47,120
of like why like the RFS like arms struggle failed

248
00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:50,600
and admission that you know, like the unarmed struggle like

249
00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:53,759
under the banner of Marcis Leninism is done. It can't

250
00:16:53,759 --> 00:16:57,679
you know, is impossible for anything like that to endure

251
00:16:57,879 --> 00:17:03,480
or re emerge. The second section stated because of that,

252
00:17:03,799 --> 00:17:08,759
because you know, the historical process won't abide, you know,

253
00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:18,599
an ongoing revolutionary paradigm that uh, you know, the RF

254
00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:23,599
like what wants a unilateral they they're declaring a unilateral ceasefire. Okay.

255
00:17:25,319 --> 00:17:27,799
The implication being that if you leave us alone, like

256
00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,640
will basically will basically disappear, you know, like don't don't

257
00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:34,160
hunt our people down or still wanted for outstanding violence

258
00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,279
like basically you know they basically like let the past

259
00:17:37,319 --> 00:17:41,559
from the past you know, like nobody's no nobody, nobody

260
00:17:41,559 --> 00:17:44,680
believes that you know, Marcist Leninist revolution is is as

261
00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:46,960
possible in West Germany, and there's there's not even like

262
00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:49,279
a d d R anymore to like, you know, unify

263
00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:59,519
with so it uh in uh their own words quote

264
00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:04,359
it said, we ourselves were confronted with the fact that

265
00:18:05,559 --> 00:18:07,880
the policy we pursued in years before nineteen eighty nine

266
00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:13,759
did not strengthen us politically, but weakened us. We were

267
00:18:13,759 --> 00:18:15,720
faced with the fact that we had failed to accomplish

268
00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:18,799
our objective, namely to achieve a breakthrough in the joint

269
00:18:18,799 --> 00:18:23,200
international struggle for liberation. Now interestingly too like as well

270
00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:26,200
as we'll see as the series goes on, there were

271
00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:28,160
instances and I know some people in the Commerce are

272
00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:32,039
going to pull out, like early on, especially you know,

273
00:18:34,559 --> 00:18:37,880
people affiliated with the original like wrote to army fraction

274
00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:41,400
or supporters, you know, they they pull out typical like

275
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:44,519
boilerplate like anti fascist bullshit and claim that like you

276
00:18:44,519 --> 00:18:47,079
know ed now or was it Nazi or that you

277
00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:51,599
know the you know, the you know, the communists, if

278
00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:54,440
the Boodas Republic will throw a communists and concentration camps,

279
00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:58,319
you know, like and like references to the Holocaust as

280
00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:02,839
well as as well as the kind of token suggestion

281
00:19:03,039 --> 00:19:06,240
that you know, the ARIF was a Maoist organization, okay,

282
00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:08,599
because post sixty eight that was like very chic okay,

283
00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:12,319
but very quickly it's all kind of abated, you know,

284
00:19:12,559 --> 00:19:18,759
and the language, if not the optics of of the

285
00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:24,200
Route Army fraction became very orthodox Marcus Lenists, okay. And

286
00:19:24,279 --> 00:19:29,039
this kind of this kind of this kind of letter

287
00:19:29,279 --> 00:19:31,640
declaring like the end of the arm campaign like very

288
00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:34,839
much like reflects that, you know, like it's not there

289
00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:36,880
just there's no there's none of this crazy you know,

290
00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:42,160
kind of post Marxist language you know, about about how

291
00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,880
like the fight will go on, or about like alternative

292
00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:47,759
means of achieving liberation, you know, for the class is

293
00:19:47,799 --> 00:19:50,799
most affected. It's saying like, look like the historical process

294
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:52,680
like what it didn't develop how we thought it would,

295
00:19:52,799 --> 00:19:55,119
and like it's it's no longer, it can no longer

296
00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:57,759
facilitate what we were trying to accomplish, you know, so

297
00:19:57,839 --> 00:19:59,400
this is out of our hands to it would be

298
00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:01,440
few that look in continue not as feud out with

299
00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:09,920
self defeating. The ARIF admitted that Uh, the nineteen eighty

300
00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:13,279
nine revolutions like basically like crushed them. And again if

301
00:20:13,319 --> 00:20:17,440
they if they were not like an appendage of Warsaw

302
00:20:17,559 --> 00:20:22,680
Pack specifically the d d R and in some way

303
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:24,519
the g RU and kg B, though not as much

304
00:20:24,519 --> 00:20:26,880
as people might think, like they they wouldn't have been

305
00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:34,559
talking this way, you know it Uh, you know it's

306
00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:36,880
uh like it goes I won't, I won't, I won't

307
00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:42,319
bore you, and and the subs with you know, uh

308
00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:46,160
like a a Falon like reading of the of the statement.

309
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:49,599
But you know, basically it says like when when the

310
00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:52,440
when the eighty nine revolutions like swept through, you know,

311
00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:55,480
and we realized that, you know, the the political core

312
00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:58,200
just like evaporated and like even the vanguard what have

313
00:20:58,319 --> 00:21:02,839
been the vanguard at least in officialdom, you know, not

314
00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:05,559
just in the Soviet Union, but in the satellite regimes

315
00:21:05,559 --> 00:21:08,559
like lack the will to act as a vanguard and

316
00:21:08,559 --> 00:21:11,160
and crust the resistance, you know, and see through you know,

317
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:14,519
the process of history. You know, like we we realized

318
00:21:14,559 --> 00:21:17,359
that we had to like kind of like redefine our

319
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:22,440
our situation politically and again, as we'll get into despite

320
00:21:22,559 --> 00:21:24,200
the fact that just said that this is a very

321
00:21:24,279 --> 00:21:34,720
orthodox Marxist, Leninist even Stalinist movement or or actor. They

322
00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:36,880
they very much run the cusp of you know, kind

323
00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:41,119
of like developmental ideas. You know, they were they they

324
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,240
were very aware of like the situationist perspective of the capitals,

325
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,759
you know, and they believe that to inform the process

326
00:21:47,839 --> 00:21:51,720
of history in like an immediate sense. Okay, so this

327
00:21:51,839 --> 00:21:54,160
isn't this, this isn't like a cope or whatever. In fact,

328
00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:57,480
it's it's very much Uh, it's really kind of like

329
00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:01,000
a savage like self criticism, okay, like saying like our

330
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:07,720
entire are are our entire like constellation of motives and

331
00:22:07,759 --> 00:22:11,240
the way we perceived, you know, the historical environment like

332
00:22:11,599 --> 00:22:15,319
you know past and and in and in the moment

333
00:22:15,319 --> 00:22:18,920
in which we were actively you know, killing people, and

334
00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:21,359
and and and we're fighting this war. You know, where

335
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:27,680
we were. We were grossly mistaken, you know. And that uh,

336
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:31,119
especially in somebody who's who's good. I mean that that

337
00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:33,200
that it doesn't just require when to put on is

338
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:37,799
ego aside to make such an admission. But if your

339
00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:40,839
entire like rithmon tetro is like dialectical materialism, and uh,

340
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:44,799
it's kind of like this kind of like bassardized he

341
00:22:44,839 --> 00:22:48,680
gaily in view of historical determinism, you know, and it's

342
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:52,119
and suggesting that you know, you were totally you're totally wrong.

343
00:22:52,559 --> 00:22:56,000
And the way you read the proverbial indicators, you know,

344
00:22:56,039 --> 00:23:02,880
that's that's that that that that's big okay, I uh,

345
00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:08,680
you know, and and it indicates it suggests like it's

346
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:12,720
a kind of self reflection that's kind of rare among gorillas, okay,

347
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:16,759
because the direct action element generally that's that's not to

348
00:23:16,799 --> 00:23:20,079
say like guys who actually put in you know, who

349
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:22,720
do dirt and put into work or stupid point the contrary,

350
00:23:22,759 --> 00:23:26,400
but it it's it's it requires their own kind of

351
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:30,279
man and they and generally they're not particularly reflective on

352
00:23:30,319 --> 00:23:36,079
the historical situation, regardless of their ideological persuasion. But you know,

353
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:38,880
this is a like a story begins here again too

354
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:42,400
because if the road Army fraction, and as the series continues,

355
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:44,160
you'll see what I mean by this. If they were

356
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:46,960
in fact, again, this this kind of nineteen sixty eight

357
00:23:47,039 --> 00:23:51,720
or radical student movement that that that you know, somehow

358
00:23:51,759 --> 00:23:56,680
became habituated to direct the action and violence and maybe

359
00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:00,319
received some assistance, you know, after it had already you know,

360
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:04,599
developed the kind of ideological and social infrastructure required, you know,

361
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:09,400
from the Warsaw Pact. Official them like they this this

362
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:13,599
sort of this this sort of like what like self

363
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:18,079
surrender letter like or self pretique and formal kind of

364
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:20,480
ending to the arm campaign like would not have been forthcoming.

365
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:22,960
You know, why why wouldn't have they have just continued

366
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:25,680
into perpetuity, especially when these were like wanted men and

367
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:27,839
women in large part. You know, it's not as if

368
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:29,559
they could go back just having like a normal life

369
00:24:29,559 --> 00:24:34,519
above board the uh. And it goes out to say too,

370
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:37,960
like in loves of what I just said, it said

371
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:44,240
that it said that the the commando level of the

372
00:24:44,319 --> 00:24:49,119
organization was afforded too much of a leading role. You know,

373
00:24:50,839 --> 00:24:55,200
their operational philosophy had always been to favor the direct

374
00:24:55,319 --> 00:25:02,559
action element. Okay, it's the advant guarde Okay, not just

375
00:25:02,599 --> 00:25:07,880
as a kind of self policing elitism, but also because

376
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,000
obviously that's something that set them apart. As we'll see,

377
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:12,079
like the era killed a lot of people. They killed

378
00:25:12,079 --> 00:25:14,839
a lot of high profile people. It killed CEOs, they

379
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:19,599
killed top diplomats, they killed uh, it killed national political figures.

380
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,079
You know, Okay, these are not guys throwing pipe bombs

381
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,079
at at the outside of the local beer garden or

382
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:28,000
you know, like beating up on uh, you know, people

383
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:31,440
they decided were fascist or something. You know, this was

384
00:25:32,559 --> 00:25:36,160
this this this this was very very serious. But at

385
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,680
the same time, it's you know, the men were actually

386
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:41,680
are fighting a war, whether you're talking about you know,

387
00:25:41,759 --> 00:25:44,599
like where you're talking about like comed infantry and in

388
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:49,160
a conventional war situation, or whether you're talking about a gorilla

389
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:54,240
vanguard involved in you know and in killing people incident

390
00:25:54,279 --> 00:25:58,799
to a political struggle. You know, you can't you can't

391
00:25:58,799 --> 00:26:01,160
walk through the force of the tree, like just by

392
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:05,519
virtue of where you're situated. You know. It's uh, it's

393
00:26:05,519 --> 00:26:07,519
like being pressed up against an obelisk and trying to

394
00:26:07,519 --> 00:26:09,559
get like a feel for like what its dimensions are.

395
00:26:09,599 --> 00:26:11,559
You know, you've got to be able to step back

396
00:26:11,599 --> 00:26:13,119
to what you ares and like see how it's shaped

397
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:15,680
and then kind of like contemplated. But if you're if

398
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,759
you're killing people and you're fighting GSG nine and you

399
00:26:18,759 --> 00:26:22,559
know you're in you know, American Army intelligence and you know,

400
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:26,000
pretty shaw my five and you know you're you're you're

401
00:26:26,039 --> 00:26:29,839
living by the by the by the barrel of your

402
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:33,359
of your agent k machine pistol. You know you're not

403
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:38,359
You're not you're not thinking deeply about you know, Marxist

404
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,200
Leninist dialectics. And you know whether or not, you know,

405
00:26:41,759 --> 00:26:46,039
the things predicted or augured they're in are actually coming

406
00:26:46,039 --> 00:26:52,359
to fruition. You know, that's just a fact. It's you know,

407
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:58,599
the uh. What also is interesting is that it without

408
00:26:58,839 --> 00:27:02,200
it doesn't stray anything approaching like vocus language or like

409
00:27:02,279 --> 00:27:05,480
outright nationalism or like nationalism with the lower his end,

410
00:27:05,519 --> 00:27:08,559
you know, like nationalism. The type of the Evan type

411
00:27:08,599 --> 00:27:12,039
is dead obviously, but they talk about how the time

412
00:27:12,079 --> 00:27:13,480
has come we you know, they need to look out

413
00:27:13,519 --> 00:27:16,359
for the German people like and anybody politically engaged must

414
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:20,279
because these these are critical times, you know, and any

415
00:27:20,319 --> 00:27:23,839
anybody who would be interested in following them, you know,

416
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:27,359
it's they It would be a mistake for to try

417
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:32,920
and seek out opportunity targets to you know, as as

418
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:37,039
this time of transition is underway, you know, because it's

419
00:27:37,079 --> 00:27:39,240
not it wasn't clear like what the parameters were yet

420
00:27:40,279 --> 00:27:42,759
as well as like what the objective would be you know,

421
00:27:42,839 --> 00:27:48,279
and divided Germany was it was a unique situation that

422
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:50,519
was like neither war nor peace, you know, like I

423
00:27:50,559 --> 00:27:54,119
made the point people on the inner German border, like

424
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:58,319
particularly where tactical nuclear forces were based. And then the

425
00:27:58,319 --> 00:28:02,839
folding gap, you know where which which would have been

426
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,440
you know, the the fall the gab in the Returman

427
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:07,839
plane is where like wars, the bank armor would have

428
00:28:07,839 --> 00:28:11,519
absolutely assaulted evental war like he visited. It was like

429
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,720
it was like some some alternative reality where like World

430
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:18,359
War three was already on. You know, it wasn't war,

431
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:21,359
but it wasn't peace time either, you know. And and

432
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:25,640
Berlin was the city full of intrigues, you know, you know,

433
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,200
full of full of spies, you know, full of them,

434
00:28:29,079 --> 00:28:31,559
you know, full of political assass and it's quite literally

435
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:35,839
you know, full of ideological intriguers of all stripes. You know.

436
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,599
It was that they don't went away after the wall

437
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:44,400
came down, you know. And uh in in some ways

438
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,440
there was quite a bit more uncertainty obviously, you know

439
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:50,240
when the truly you know, like and the and the

440
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:54,680
Unified like truly like peacetime Germany, and I mean, I

441
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:56,559
mean it should this should be obvious, but it's you know,

442
00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:01,640
the people even even though my sense of people, they

443
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:06,480
I think they they overemphasize the the significance of violence politically,

444
00:29:07,119 --> 00:29:11,359
you know, like it like like direct action doesn't even

445
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:15,119
up self accomplish anything. You know, it's got to be targeted.

446
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:21,880
It's got to be situationally devised, you know. And uh

447
00:29:22,319 --> 00:29:26,359
even then like it's it's gotta the way it the

448
00:29:26,359 --> 00:29:28,559
way it indexes with the kind of conceptual horizon. The

449
00:29:28,559 --> 00:29:32,519
body politic is key, you know, all this stuff, and

450
00:29:33,599 --> 00:29:38,720
you know that this this sounds like, this might sound obvious,

451
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,759
but it's really it's not obvious when you're when when

452
00:29:42,119 --> 00:29:45,599
you like the royal you was like is insinuated into them,

453
00:29:45,799 --> 00:29:49,319
you know, a political uh an our and political struggle

454
00:29:51,519 --> 00:30:02,000
the uh and mhm beginning uh beginning of ninety seven.

455
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:05,400
It doesn't jumping around a lot, but one of the Congress. Again,

456
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:07,960
like I said, there's a few aspects of my hypothesis. Okay,

457
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:12,680
you know that being the national socialist element or tendency

458
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:15,720
within the road Army fraction. That's not to say that

459
00:30:15,759 --> 00:30:19,559
they were a national solvices grouping, but the element was there. Secondly,

460
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:23,440
the you know, their uh, their status as a their

461
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:26,839
de facto status is a true you know, like Oregon

462
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,240
slash element of of the Warsaw Pact and not just

463
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:36,799
a spontaneous rebel grouping, you know, and and and an

464
00:30:36,799 --> 00:30:41,200
incident to that very much, especially during the middle phase

465
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,960
of their campaign or on ninety seventy eight, they put

466
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:47,960
a premium on on opportunities to negotiate, you know, with

467
00:30:48,119 --> 00:30:50,480
with the Bond government in the United States and and

468
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,880
and the British government as well as other as well

469
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,200
as the Netherlands in Belgium where they had carried out

470
00:30:56,599 --> 00:30:59,519
you know, homicides and terrorist acts as we'll see. But

471
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,240
the Road Army fraction, they started to emphasize this policy

472
00:31:03,359 --> 00:31:06,480
of of of negotiating release of their prisoners as well

473
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:10,240
as try to piggyback negotiations and release of those people

474
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:14,000
with it they considered to be like adjacent and allied elements,

475
00:31:14,319 --> 00:31:16,880
like people people from the Popular Front for Liberation of

476
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,039
Palestine General Command, like people from the POO, who in

477
00:31:20,079 --> 00:31:24,039
those days was dominated by FATA, which contra Hamas was

478
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:29,119
you know at the secular wing and the the RAF

479
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:32,880
trained with the POO under FATA, which is one of

480
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:35,359
the ways they learned to use weapons, they learned basic

481
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:39,920
infantry tactics. You know, you can't you can't just like

482
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:43,240
teach yourself these things. You know, something that that that

483
00:31:43,279 --> 00:31:45,519
basic question too. If if the Road Army for Action

484
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,400
was just these these crazy sixty ter college kids like

485
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:50,039
what they were like they just they were just like

486
00:31:50,119 --> 00:31:53,000
drilling and infantry tactics like out in the woods for fun.

487
00:31:53,079 --> 00:31:57,680
I mean no, but you know, the uh, we'll get

488
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:01,279
into that too. But the this, this, this, this gave

489
00:32:01,319 --> 00:32:04,319
the World Army Fraction an international profile. And we'll get

490
00:32:04,359 --> 00:32:08,000
into this in the second episode. But you know, this

491
00:32:08,079 --> 00:32:11,680
led to the establishment of a Japanese wrote Army fraction.

492
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,920
The Japanese Communist Party was very active, had a lot

493
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:21,160
of clout and was very very very radical and some

494
00:32:21,279 --> 00:32:24,039
people may know that he might not figure the tangent,

495
00:32:24,119 --> 00:32:27,839
but the Japanese Route Army Fraction carried out this assault

496
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:33,640
at at Jeda Airport in Israel and killed like twenty

497
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:38,720
six people. But again too, you know, borrowing, it's I mean,

498
00:32:38,759 --> 00:32:42,039
think about that. Okay, there's there's this, there's this, there's

499
00:32:42,039 --> 00:32:48,079
this hardcore German and uh Japanese armed groupings under the

500
00:32:48,119 --> 00:32:51,279
same banner, you know, when they're and they're slaughtering people

501
00:32:51,279 --> 00:32:53,920
in Israel under the under the banner of you know,

502
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:57,440
anti imperialism. But if you don't, if if you don't

503
00:32:57,480 --> 00:32:59,240
see the relationship the history there, like, I don't know

504
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:03,119
what to tell you. Okay, this is not accidental, it's

505
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:05,519
not just you know, it's not just splendidly kind of

506
00:33:05,519 --> 00:33:08,559
like ironic optics or something. But oh, Germans and Japanese

507
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,200
taking the fight to a Jewish state. I mean again

508
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,160
it should be obvious. But people counter signal be on

509
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,119
this all the time, which is I mean, they're all

510
00:33:16,119 --> 00:33:19,039
going to do that, but I I don't just say things.

511
00:33:19,039 --> 00:33:21,640
I can back this up and I will. That's what

512
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:30,759
we're doing here. But the this, uh they called uh,

513
00:33:31,759 --> 00:33:34,839
the rotary paction, called this process like collating you know,

514
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:39,440
between themselves like the Japanese particularly you know, the PLO,

515
00:33:39,599 --> 00:33:42,960
as well as Popular Front deliveries in Palestine, which is

516
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:48,160
primarily a Syrian outfit, and the East Germans and Syria

517
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:53,599
were thick as thieves, you know. And I've made the

518
00:33:53,599 --> 00:33:56,200
point again and again the Syria should have an outside

519
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:59,200
significance to people on the right in a way, not

520
00:33:59,279 --> 00:34:04,160
unlike Franco's spanded that's a subject from another episode. But

521
00:34:05,319 --> 00:34:10,000
the the UH, the d the d d R military

522
00:34:10,079 --> 00:34:15,280
establishment was very insanely into Syria. Heinz Hoffman, who was

523
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:20,679
UH the UH, the d d R Defense Minister, he

524
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:25,760
personally knew al Asade. They were very close. He assisted

525
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:32,159
him in modernizing the Syrian er of army. And you know, incidentally,

526
00:34:32,199 --> 00:34:34,760
the so as you have you have East Berlin and

527
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:38,880
indexing very tightly with with Damascus, and then you have

528
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:43,000
the Popular Front for Liberation of Palestine General Command, which

529
00:34:43,079 --> 00:34:45,960
was a very Syrian outfit, you know, indexing with the

530
00:34:46,039 --> 00:34:48,559
Road Army fraction, and both are technically you know, like

531
00:34:48,599 --> 00:34:51,960
these these these independent non state actors. I mean this

532
00:34:52,519 --> 00:34:55,559
again to the kind of the interdependence here and the

533
00:34:55,639 --> 00:35:02,320
relationship of of of state officialdom to these to these

534
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,679
organizations like should should be clear to anybody, but you know,

535
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:11,760
truly up to person who's blind to kind of political realities.

536
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:23,880
The UH, the that UH. And it's also too like

537
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:29,360
one of the reasons why you know, there's you could

538
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:33,679
tell too that I the Rotary Refraction was taking some

539
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:35,920
of their cues from the Provisional IRA like not in

540
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,760
terms of ideology or anything. But you know, the the

541
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:42,880
provos were fixated. I mean, I don't mean that dismissively.

542
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,880
I mean it was it was a correct emphasis. They

543
00:35:46,599 --> 00:35:49,880
they were strongly oriented towards there are people being who

544
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:54,079
were locked down being recognized as political prisoners and not criminals. Okay,

545
00:35:54,119 --> 00:36:00,679
because a few things happened there that obviously the legitimized

546
00:36:00,679 --> 00:36:03,800
that your struggle and your people, you know, come to

547
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:06,440
be viewed as soldiers and thus be entitled, if not

548
00:36:06,639 --> 00:36:09,880
the full protection of the Jeeva Convention. You know, they're

549
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,480
they're they're there at least you know, afforded protection as

550
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:19,440
as ah as enemy combatants you know, which prior to

551
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:23,440
the Bush administration is gonna making hashed with that. You

552
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:28,159
know they did, uh, they did. They were afforded some

553
00:36:28,159 --> 00:36:30,880
some degree of protection you know where I mean obviously

554
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:33,599
obviously because like were they not they they would have

555
00:36:33,599 --> 00:36:40,679
just been taken on shot. But also it's you know, uh,

556
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:44,920
there's a it opens the door to negotiation, okay. And

557
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:48,960
and negotiation is I mean despite mistards the Lenski might claim,

558
00:36:49,039 --> 00:36:52,440
or despite what these Raelis claim about terrorists, or despite

559
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:56,079
what despite what America claims about you know whoever it's

560
00:36:56,119 --> 00:37:00,440
it's angry with at any given day, you if you

561
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:02,679
just if you just claim you refuse to negotiate with

562
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:05,519
OP four like you're you're pissing under the wind. You know,

563
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:08,880
you can't just you can't just sit about to resolve

564
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:11,760
all all political questions like militarily or a boy like

565
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:15,239
threat of force. That's Assen nine. But there has to

566
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:17,760
there there has to be some sort of equality of status,

567
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:22,079
you know, if not full equality, there's you know there

568
00:37:22,159 --> 00:37:25,239
there's you've got to be treated as existing, if not

569
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:30,599
on sovereign footing, at least on legitimate at least on

570
00:37:30,679 --> 00:37:33,639
legitimate terms as a political actor. Okay, you know, and

571
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:36,800
again this this removes what would otherwise be you know,

572
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:42,159
criminal behavior, you know, non privileged homicide, you know, things

573
00:37:42,199 --> 00:37:46,519
like this, you know, from from a from a category

574
00:37:46,519 --> 00:37:50,440
of a pure criminality. So this, this is fundamentally important.

575
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:52,840
And this and this also isn't obvious. I mean, like

576
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:55,840
the this is somewhat uncharted territory, you know, I mean

577
00:37:55,840 --> 00:38:01,119
it's we obviously, I mean gorillaters or as old as

578
00:38:01,559 --> 00:38:03,079
literally as old as Christ, you know, that's what like

579
00:38:03,079 --> 00:38:07,159
the Zealots were, but in in the in like the

580
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:10,960
in like the post Westphalian system, Like how we how

581
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:14,679
we I'm talking about you know, like like the twenty

582
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:19,280
twenty per century people who are representatives of of of

583
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:23,840
of sovereign states, you know, how how we treat partisans?

584
00:38:25,119 --> 00:38:27,280
This was this was this is an issue of first

585
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:29,559
impression in large parts. That's why it's such a huge

586
00:38:29,559 --> 00:38:32,199
part of of Schmid's book almost of the Earth, because

587
00:38:32,199 --> 00:38:34,320
he's saying, you know, he's writing in the you know,

588
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:37,639
in in at the peak of the Cold War, and

589
00:38:37,639 --> 00:38:39,800
he's saying, like, look like this is going to become

590
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,360
like the face of warfare. You know, how how are

591
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:45,400
you going to respond to this? You know, it's there.

592
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:49,760
There's got to be some sort of mechanism whereby you know,

593
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:53,000
there there there's some kind of not moral like at

594
00:38:53,079 --> 00:38:56,679
least pragmatic, you know, consensus about you know, how we

595
00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:58,719
how we deal with these situations, how we deal with

596
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:00,920
these actors, you know, and what and what like the

597
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:05,360
path the pieces when you know, uh, when when a

598
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:07,840
national state is like so engaged against such an element.

599
00:39:08,559 --> 00:39:12,960
But you know I so I mean again, obviously I

600
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:15,239
I don't see like nineteen to twenty five year old

601
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:19,039
kids just like devising this. Okay, I know a lot

602
00:39:19,039 --> 00:39:21,239
of brilliant guys that age, don't get me wrong, but

603
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:25,039
it's just not it's this is something that very much

604
00:39:25,079 --> 00:39:27,760
came from somebody like Marcus Wolf was, you know, the

605
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:31,559
kind of like the man behind He was like the

606
00:39:31,599 --> 00:39:34,360
real brains of the Shazi, you know. Eric Milka was

607
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:38,800
a it was was it was just it was you know,

608
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:41,079
he wasn't a figurehead. He was very hands on, but

609
00:39:41,079 --> 00:39:42,840
he was. He was basically just like a thug cop.

610
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,079
Wolf was really the He wasn't just like the spymaster,

611
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:49,719
but he was. He was of the d d R.

612
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:52,039
He was, uh, you know, he was he was kind

613
00:39:52,039 --> 00:39:57,960
of he was kind of like there uh, there's there's

614
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,519
shining prints of all things really to deplit it warfare

615
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:04,320
and a fascinating guy. I highly recommend his autobiography. Whatever

616
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:06,880
anybody thinks of them, he's he was probably was. He

617
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,199
was about the best. He was one of the best

618
00:40:09,199 --> 00:40:14,719
men in the worst out back for those but it's uh,

619
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:22,320
now they get for context here and let me just

620
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:27,960
see how long we've been going. Okay, for context here again.

621
00:40:28,039 --> 00:40:31,159
Lets let's let's break down someone with the Roade Army Fraction.

622
00:40:32,559 --> 00:40:37,400
It's first and and this first errat first and second iterations,

623
00:40:38,519 --> 00:40:40,559
what kinds of activities was engaged and what kinds of

624
00:40:40,599 --> 00:40:46,320
targets it was hitting? Okay, twenty second October and now

625
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:54,480
he's seventy one World Army Fraction members frem Guard Bowler

626
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:58,280
and Gerhard muller Uh. They attempted to rescue their comrade,

627
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:03,400
leading Margaret Schiller. She was in the process of being

628
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:07,199
arrested by the police after shooting it out with them

629
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:10,800
after she'd been identified as you know, an an RAF member.

630
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:18,440
A police sergeant named the Heinz Lemke was shot and wounded.

631
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:23,320
The sergeant on the scene when Norbert Schmidt was killed.

632
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:27,920
I mean, killing a cop obviously is a huge thing.

633
00:41:28,159 --> 00:41:29,880
I mean it's really a point in overturn and in

634
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:32,960
absolute in an absolute sense. But that doesn't prove that

635
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:35,559
like the RIF will just get down, okay, I mean

636
00:41:35,559 --> 00:41:38,480
they they thought nothing of shooting it out with them

637
00:41:39,079 --> 00:41:47,400
with the German Federal police. Two months later, December nineteen

638
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:52,840
seventy one, the another cop, another another boons for public cop,

639
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:56,800
was shot by Worte Army Faction members in the process

640
00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:03,079
of a bank robbery. He lived, but the the heist

641
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:05,440
crew made off of one hundred and thirty four thousand

642
00:42:05,519 --> 00:42:08,519
Deutsche marks, which was a fortune in ninety seventies money.

643
00:42:09,199 --> 00:42:11,559
You know that the deutsch mark was you know, the

644
00:42:11,679 --> 00:42:14,000
like the euro before the euro. You know, so they go,

645
00:42:14,599 --> 00:42:16,840
that's like, that's like seven hundred thousand dollars and like

646
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:19,599
today's money. Okay for like a one off score. That's

647
00:42:19,599 --> 00:42:23,880
freaking insane. Now check this out. As time goes on,

648
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:28,519
these targets don't has become more and more brazen. But

649
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:33,719
like the ambition here is crazy. May eleventh of nineteen

650
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:39,639
seventy two, at the Frankfurt Main the US Army five

651
00:42:39,679 --> 00:42:43,559
Core Headquarters, which is located in the ig Farban Building,

652
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:48,000
the Roade Army for Action blew up the Officers Club.

653
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:53,880
They wounded thirteen soldiers. They killed Lieutenant Colonel Paul Bloomquist.

654
00:42:54,119 --> 00:42:57,280
Bloomquist was a war hero. He was an Army aviator.

655
00:42:57,320 --> 00:42:59,760
He was he was a you know, a helicop, was

656
00:43:00,039 --> 00:43:05,360
oppera pilot. He held four Distinguished Flying crosses, Silver Star,

657
00:43:05,519 --> 00:43:09,199
purple Heart. I mean this guy, this guy was like,

658
00:43:09,559 --> 00:43:13,519
uh like Audie Murphy, you know, and uh, they killed

659
00:43:13,599 --> 00:43:17,840
him and attacking like the I G I G. Farban's

660
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:19,559
you know, that just wasn't just a symbol of like

661
00:43:19,599 --> 00:43:24,320
West German kind of you know, national manufacturing capitalism, but

662
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:28,079
again this was this is the headquarters of of of

663
00:43:28,119 --> 00:43:33,840
an army corps, you know, striking that killing a lieutenant

664
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:36,280
colonel and and like a celebrated war hero with that.

665
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:39,239
I mean, that's that's one of thos. A shot fright

666
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:46,679
across the bow. That's real war. That same month, at

667
00:43:45,519 --> 00:43:52,519
UH in Augsburg, the Royal Army for Action bombed a

668
00:43:52,599 --> 00:43:58,000
police station, specifically targeting the Bavarian State Criminal Investigation Agency.

669
00:43:59,639 --> 00:44:05,039
Five thes were wounded. For the first time. There's a

670
00:44:05,119 --> 00:44:13,719
formal acceptance responsibility the UH. The the team called itself

671
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:19,639
the Tommy Weissbacker Commando. They named themselves after either prisoners

672
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:21,880
of the like their people who've been taking prisoner of

673
00:44:22,159 --> 00:44:24,679
k I A like k I in their mind, So

674
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:27,400
like when are too responsibility always like the Tommy Weissbacker

675
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:32,679
Commando or you know, like the whatever, like the the

676
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:37,239
like the Horse Boller Commando, you know which is which

677
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:40,559
is again that's like a callback to like Spanish civil

678
00:44:40,599 --> 00:44:43,679
war stuff and like right October days, you know, as

679
00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:50,159
I'm sure people picked up into the lore again. In May,

680
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:56,159
the U a federal judges car was bombed. In addition,

681
00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:59,960
they bombed the headquarters the actual Springer of Verlad Corporation

682
00:45:00,079 --> 00:45:07,559
and wounding seventeen. The Heidelberg the US Army in Europe

683
00:45:07,559 --> 00:45:12,719
Officers Club in Heidelberg was bombed followed moments later. I

684
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:15,880
guess people ran out across the street was the Army

685
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:19,280
Security Agency and they planned a bomb there too, So

686
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:22,920
like these people were fleeing the officers club, they got

687
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:25,679
blown up, and then three American soldiers were killed and

688
00:45:25,679 --> 00:45:27,960
three more wounded. I mean, since this was, I mean,

689
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:30,519
think about that was happening today, Like that's totally insane.

690
00:45:31,079 --> 00:45:33,920
Speaker 3: You know, it's you know, my dad was stationed there.

691
00:45:34,119 --> 00:45:35,360
Speaker 2: Oh wow, that's nuts.

692
00:45:35,199 --> 00:45:36,480
Speaker 3: That's where I was born.

693
00:45:36,559 --> 00:45:38,480
Speaker 2: Yeah no, no, yeah, I know, I know you're a

694
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:43,599
wounded republic native but which which is actually got awesome,

695
00:45:43,639 --> 00:45:46,719
But yeah, what happened your path wasn't so awesome. But like, yeah,

696
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:52,239
the now this was what kind of see the real escalation.

697
00:45:53,039 --> 00:45:57,480
In nineteen seventy four, the first uh, the first rotar

698
00:45:57,559 --> 00:46:06,239
army for action action of A seventy four the West

699
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:07,559
German embassy.

700
00:46:09,119 --> 00:46:09,679
Speaker 3: And UH.

701
00:46:11,679 --> 00:46:18,639
Speaker 2: In Sweden, a hit team or assault team calling themselves

702
00:46:18,679 --> 00:46:23,400
the Commando Holger Mines Holger Minds with a rogue arm

703
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:27,159
refaction member who died on a hunger strike in prison.

704
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:29,480
And this is another thing too, like again like like

705
00:46:29,559 --> 00:46:32,280
talking about the provos like these, there were a number

706
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:34,239
of them that that that didn't Bobby Sands, didn't just

707
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:37,639
star themselves at death like these guys were. I mean

708
00:46:37,639 --> 00:46:42,960
they were crazy, you know, and and in in a

709
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:49,119
parisan sense, you know, they incredibly dangerous people. They uh,

710
00:46:50,079 --> 00:46:54,079
they carried out, they carried out this assault on again.

711
00:46:54,159 --> 00:46:59,639
This was the German embassy, the West German Embassy in Stockholm.

712
00:47:00,079 --> 00:47:02,920
You know this this this uh this this RIF team

713
00:47:03,159 --> 00:47:08,440
stormed it, demanding the release of a RIF prisoners as

714
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:13,400
well as a list of you know of adjacent comrades

715
00:47:13,559 --> 00:47:21,679
you know, Palestinians, Japanese others. They they stated that if

716
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:23,880
the police moved in, they said, they wired the building

717
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:26,400
with fifteen keels at TNT and if the police moved

718
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:28,760
on them, they blow it, They blow themselves and everybody up.

719
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:34,280
The police decided they were bluffing. Well, I mean, the

720
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:38,840
groups are just six members. It was a most significant

721
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:41,159
of whom was a guy named Siegfried Hausener. And I'll

722
00:47:41,199 --> 00:47:46,360
get into that in a minute, but it was, uh,

723
00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:51,719
it was. There's five men and one woman. Theyandered the embassy,

724
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:58,000
took thirteen official hostage, including the uh, the ambassador like

725
00:47:58,039 --> 00:48:03,679
a German ambassador. Uh. I believe the ambassador Heinz Deatrich Stalker.

726
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:07,719
I believe they took him up to the window so

727
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:10,159
that you know, the police could see him and then

728
00:48:10,199 --> 00:48:12,719
blew him away. They did it to somebody, I think

729
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:16,480
it was Stalker. And again they weren't the police to

730
00:48:16,519 --> 00:48:18,480
back off, but they said that they'd killed him. They

731
00:48:18,519 --> 00:48:22,039
said they'd kill a hostage every hour if the police

732
00:48:22,039 --> 00:48:26,000
didn't lift the uh you know, they didn't, didn't retreat

733
00:48:26,039 --> 00:48:29,519
from the primity established And again they threatened to blow

734
00:48:29,559 --> 00:48:32,519
it the entire embassy up if the police moved to

735
00:48:32,559 --> 00:48:34,920
storm them. But I don't know it was actually it

736
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:38,360
was one of the hostages killed. Was This is fascinating.

737
00:48:39,079 --> 00:48:41,360
Baron Andreas von Mirbach, who was the he was the

738
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:45,679
German military at the Shade of Sweden. He's the guy

739
00:48:45,679 --> 00:48:50,199
who's marched out under the landing and shot dead. This

740
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:55,480
is macab but fascinating. In nineteen eighteen, his ancestor, Veilhelm

741
00:48:55,559 --> 00:48:58,480
von Murbach had been assassinated the German MC in Moscow

742
00:48:59,199 --> 00:49:04,039
by those revolutionaries who stormed the freaking embassy. Like how

743
00:49:03,639 --> 00:49:09,679
like how how fucking insane is that? Like I don't know,

744
00:49:09,679 --> 00:49:11,480
maybe think of that scene in Hannibal. You ever seen

745
00:49:11,519 --> 00:49:15,039
that movie where he kills the he kills the Italian

746
00:49:15,079 --> 00:49:18,119
policeman and he's like, yeah, then when your ancestors get

747
00:49:18,199 --> 00:49:21,840
get like vivisected by the by the Borgias and he's like, yeah,

748
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:26,559
how'd you know that? I think, like, but only in

749
00:49:26,599 --> 00:49:32,800
Europe Man, but Helmut Schmidt was a new chancellor. It

750
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:37,599
was very much I mean, West Germany in the seventies

751
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:41,199
was really kind of a mess. And the some people

752
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:43,559
believe that the government you know, you know that's one

753
00:49:43,559 --> 00:49:47,000
of Philly Brandt, who is the long time mirror of

754
00:49:47,079 --> 00:49:52,519
West Berlin subdue him is a fifth columnist. Oh my, no,

755
00:49:52,599 --> 00:49:57,079
it's kind of friendly. Uh, it is overly friendly past

756
00:49:57,119 --> 00:49:59,960
or towards the d d R. That's all the other story,

757
00:50:00,079 --> 00:50:03,400
Like there's whole Espionize scannell to him. But point being,

758
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:08,840
the Federal Republic was kind of paralyzed owing to the

759
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:15,480
situation Visavis the executive as it as it happened, uh

760
00:50:15,679 --> 00:50:17,519
as the sweetest police payers, the storm in the building,

761
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:23,519
the uh that the road time refraction blew up, you know,

762
00:50:23,679 --> 00:50:32,679
killing everybody. Now the reason why, the reason why I

763
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:37,800
raised uh, Siegfried Hausner. This is Housner's background, and I'll

764
00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:39,719
wrap it up in a minute. But I when I

765
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:46,039
said before that much as the d DR itself and

766
00:50:46,079 --> 00:50:48,920
the World Army fraction, if you accept my hypothesis, and

767
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:51,719
even if you don't, as regards the Red Army as regardless,

768
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:53,880
the d d R, that the Road Army fraction was

769
00:50:54,119 --> 00:50:57,719
very much like an appendage of a worse peg officialdom.

770
00:50:58,119 --> 00:51:00,920
You know, despite their kind of orthodox Marxist in this posture,

771
00:51:03,039 --> 00:51:08,360
they borrowed very much from you know, secondary like like

772
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:12,480
dialectical lawsuites of a you know kind of socialist discourse

773
00:51:12,519 --> 00:51:15,679
and revolutionary discourses generally security house or had been in

774
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:19,440
a mental hospital, a psychiatric hospital. That's something want emphasize too.

775
00:51:19,559 --> 00:51:21,400
You know how these days all you hear about is like, oh,

776
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:23,679
we didn't know about mental illness in the old days.

777
00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:27,559
That's a weird take, Okay, I think mental illness is

778
00:51:27,599 --> 00:51:32,679
definitely over diagnosed today, people definitely over medicated. But psychiatry

779
00:51:33,079 --> 00:51:37,840
was at his zenith in the seventies. Okay, it was.

780
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:39,559
It was like like there was a push for like

781
00:51:39,599 --> 00:51:42,400
mental mental health to be addressed. Okay, it was definitely

782
00:51:42,400 --> 00:51:50,400
in people's radar. Now, the situationist movement as well as

783
00:51:50,519 --> 00:51:59,800
UH student like Frankfurt school type people, which the rotimyfraction

784
00:52:00,119 --> 00:52:04,559
definitely acolytes of for limited purposes, Grams and Adorno featured

785
00:52:04,639 --> 00:52:12,400
very large in their kind of ideological horizon. But anyway,

786
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:14,679
Sacred House and there he was part of what was

787
00:52:14,719 --> 00:52:20,760
called UH translates to the Socialist Patients Collective or the SPK. Okay,

788
00:52:24,519 --> 00:52:29,679
the core of the SPK uh It's idiot, it's it's

789
00:52:29,719 --> 00:52:33,960
slogan was literally turned illness into a weapon. Now, what

790
00:52:34,039 --> 00:52:37,760
their notion was was that mentalness is very real. You know,

791
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:44,159
it's not uh, it's not a misinterpretation of a of

792
00:52:44,199 --> 00:52:49,159
a a psychic phenomenon under stress or something, but that

793
00:52:49,639 --> 00:52:56,800
you know, basically quite literally capitalism and capitalist structures, you know,

794
00:52:56,960 --> 00:53:00,360
our first and foremost psychically oppressive and are literally breeding

795
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:09,880
mental illness. So the the idea being that somebody who's

796
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:13,719
self consciously mentally ill, they're aware of what the capitalist

797
00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:18,079
structure is doing to them, and the only the way

798
00:53:18,159 --> 00:53:23,639
the way to be cured is to reconfigure social conditions

799
00:53:23,639 --> 00:53:26,719
such that the alienation that bred their mental illness in

800
00:53:26,719 --> 00:53:29,679
the first place goes away. I mean this, this is

801
00:53:29,679 --> 00:53:34,800
like literally like the ideology, okay, And that's uh, that's

802
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:40,199
where a Houser came from, you know, and he uh,

803
00:53:41,079 --> 00:53:46,199
presumably he was a very eager volunteer for direct action

804
00:53:46,519 --> 00:53:52,320
because you know, somebody, somebody tortured by mental illness, if

805
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:55,199
they come to believe rightly or wrongly, or they come

806
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:58,519
to sincerely believe that you know, some kind of superstructural

807
00:53:58,599 --> 00:54:02,679
tendencies of you know, the world historical process is quite

808
00:54:02,719 --> 00:54:05,920
literally making them crazy. You would you would die to

809
00:54:06,079 --> 00:54:13,000
remedy that. You know. I find this fascinating. But you

810
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:14,639
know I bring that, I bring up how or not

811
00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:19,679
just because he died in the service of a throat

812
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:26,159
refractions idea, but in a very high profile in a

813
00:54:26,199 --> 00:54:29,760
very high profile terrorist operation.

814
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:34,159
Speaker 4: But you know, he, like I said, uh, there there's

815
00:54:34,239 --> 00:54:37,519
there was there was there's an ideological complexity here that

816
00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:40,039
is both the product of the times from which it

817
00:54:40,079 --> 00:54:42,239
was emergent, but also like supersedes.

818
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:51,639
Speaker 2: It's the uh and I think that gives I'm gonna

819
00:54:53,880 --> 00:55:00,920
we're gonna pick up next time with with what I

820
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:05,880
think of as the rofractions Morgan's NATO, what we've addressed

821
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:08,400
so far released there there wargans the boot is Republic,

822
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:13,159
but I I think this is you know, I think

823
00:55:13,159 --> 00:55:15,480
this is an appropriate stopping place. And frankly, like I'm

824
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:19,480
in a lot of pain from sitting, so if that's yeah,

825
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:21,239
I think we've been going about an hour of this pool,

826
00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:24,239
but you will. We'll take this up in a couple

827
00:55:24,239 --> 00:55:25,159
of days.

828
00:55:26,159 --> 00:55:27,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, that sounds good.

829
00:55:28,519 --> 00:55:31,159
Speaker 1: I want to take the chance to remind everyone about

830
00:55:31,199 --> 00:55:35,320
our our movie reviews and how you know, we have

831
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:39,440
this gum road page set up and on my website

832
00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:42,559
Freeman Beyond the Wall Forward slash movies you get you

833
00:55:42,599 --> 00:55:46,480
can access I have links to all of it. And yeah,

834
00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:50,159
there's uh, we're gonna record another movie next week. We

835
00:55:50,199 --> 00:55:53,320
won't tell anybody what it is right now, We'll surprise people.

836
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:56,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we got it's like Mystery Science the year

837
00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:57,119
three thousand men.

838
00:55:59,599 --> 00:56:04,239
Speaker 1: Hopefully hopefully we can share some uh, some cultural and

839
00:56:05,119 --> 00:56:08,280
historical facts that are relevant to a lot of the

840
00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:10,440
you know a few of the things we're watching.

841
00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:14,599
Speaker 2: No, man, I I uh, I mean I I'm literally

842
00:56:14,639 --> 00:56:17,079
like a movie junkie man, like I meanline and inject

843
00:56:17,159 --> 00:56:19,519
movies and like I since I was a kid and

844
00:56:20,039 --> 00:56:21,800
being able to like mouth off about movies and that

845
00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:24,920
people actually be interested in hearing that. That's that's freaking wonderful, man.

846
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:27,920
Like that's uh like like legit, man, that's like free

847
00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:31,599
bubble gum like all day every day. So yeah, I

848
00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:34,760
really appreciate people like being interested enough to subscribe.

849
00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:38,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, me too. Do you want to do plugs and

850
00:56:38,639 --> 00:56:39,280
get out of here?

851
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:42,079
Speaker 2: Yeah? Man? You know it is always the best place,

852
00:56:42,159 --> 00:56:45,519
I mean, like one stop place to find me is

853
00:56:45,599 --> 00:56:48,719
in my website. It's Thomas seven seven seven dot com

854
00:56:49,199 --> 00:56:52,039
number seven. Each of me is seven seven seven dot com.

855
00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:54,480
I'm on X, which is doing all sorts of like

856
00:56:54,559 --> 00:56:57,199
weird fucking stuff to like tweak their platform. But I

857
00:56:57,239 --> 00:57:01,079
actually think it's getting better. But I mean it's what

858
00:57:01,079 --> 00:57:05,159
we got, whether it's getting better or worse. But I'm

859
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:10,360
at real at kevil r e a L underscore number

860
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:14,840
seven hm as seven seven seven, like the real, like

861
00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:17,000
the read. The real stuff is on my sub stick.

862
00:57:18,119 --> 00:57:22,800
It's including the pod. It's a real Thomas seven seven

863
00:57:22,880 --> 00:57:24,920
seven at subsec dot com. There's like a bunch of

864
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:27,079
other ship man, Like I'm on t gram on Instagram.

865
00:57:27,199 --> 00:57:29,159
Like just like go to my website or like seek

866
00:57:29,199 --> 00:57:31,400
that ship out and you shall find you're on like

867
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:33,400
a Google search for me. Man. Like I I'm not

868
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:35,519
saying I'm I'm like now cools to Coos, but like

869
00:57:35,559 --> 00:57:37,159
I just like there's a lot of there's like a

870
00:57:37,199 --> 00:57:38,880
lot of shit out there, like with me in it.

871
00:57:39,320 --> 00:57:41,800
You know. Like so if you just like google me, like,

872
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:44,039
you will find stuff. I find stuff that like I

873
00:57:44,079 --> 00:57:45,679
forgot that I did. I mean, I I'd like to

874
00:57:45,719 --> 00:57:47,480
think it's because I do a lot of content because

875
00:57:47,519 --> 00:57:49,639
I'm going senile be fuck knows.

876
00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:53,239
Speaker 3: All right, Thomas, So the next time, thank you very much.

877
00:57:55,599 --> 00:57:58,800
Speaker 1: I want to welcome everyone back to the Pea Show

878
00:58:00,039 --> 00:58:01,239
here with Thomas hate On.

879
00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:02,960
Speaker 3: Thomas.

880
00:58:04,159 --> 00:58:08,360
Speaker 2: I'm doing well, man. What I wanted to emphasize today,

881
00:58:08,960 --> 00:58:13,119
I assume people are getting something out of this. I'm

882
00:58:13,159 --> 00:58:20,320
nothing up twos. I mean, I the bottom MINEHFF phenomenon.

883
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:23,599
You've got to understand there's two things that I think

884
00:58:23,599 --> 00:58:27,559
are keep understanding it, okay, firstus that there was there

885
00:58:27,599 --> 00:58:33,280
truly were three iterations of it. This armed grouping that

886
00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:37,320
had a common lineage existed from nineteen seventy to nineteen

887
00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:42,400
ninety eight, and every five to seven years because their

888
00:58:42,599 --> 00:58:48,920
operators got got got killed, ended up incarcerated, or disappeared underground,

889
00:58:50,079 --> 00:58:52,400
some of whom didn't like re emerge for decades despite

890
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:58,039
being you know, hunted by by by the Buddhist Republic,

891
00:58:58,199 --> 00:59:02,400
you know, counter terrorists and the offer what they what

892
00:59:02,440 --> 00:59:04,880
they euphemistically called the Awese section of the Constitution, which

893
00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:10,679
is no joke. These people have limitless resources. But you know,

894
00:59:12,280 --> 00:59:22,559
the original boder Miinhoff grouping they really were. They really

895
00:59:22,599 --> 00:59:25,679
were a product of a peculiar time in place, and

896
00:59:25,719 --> 00:59:30,920
that was adan Auer's Buddhist Republic and their parentage. A

897
00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:33,840
lot of these guys fathers had died in the war

898
00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:37,519
or just never come home. You know, there was like

899
00:59:37,639 --> 00:59:40,360
lost generation of people as well. Seeks we're gonna get

900
00:59:40,360 --> 00:59:45,119
into their biographies, and they had kind of a confused

901
00:59:45,199 --> 00:59:48,239
understanding of what they wanted to do. Like Horse and Mahler,

902
00:59:48,320 --> 00:59:52,960
I maintain was always something of an ideological pole star

903
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:57,440
for the group, and I believe he was always a

904
00:59:57,519 --> 01:00:00,719
national socialist, but he was diferent than the rest of

905
01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:04,719
him and he wasn't a direct action operator. However, by

906
01:00:04,800 --> 01:00:09,800
the last iteration of the RhoD Army fraction, they were

907
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:13,679
totally indexed with the Stazi and they were basic they

908
01:00:13,679 --> 01:00:17,400
were running operations for the DDR, you know, like it

909
01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:22,840
had totally changed into something different, you know, and it

910
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:28,360
had becomes solidly in the Stalinist Warsaw packed camp, you know,

911
01:00:29,639 --> 01:00:36,840
which was a huge coup for Marcus Wolf and the

912
01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:40,599
administer first starts secure to be able to do that

913
01:00:41,440 --> 01:00:45,800
in America, you know, the Soviets. True, after the Common

914
01:00:45,840 --> 01:00:53,000
Turn was like ceased to exist formally, okay, what replaced

915
01:00:53,039 --> 01:00:59,599
it was this aggregation above ground, you know. It was

916
01:00:59,679 --> 01:01:03,519
common form, which was basically, uh kind of like the

917
01:01:03,519 --> 01:01:07,639
communist version of the G seven, you know, or the

918
01:01:07,679 --> 01:01:12,400
Shanghai Cooperation Organization maybe is more correct analogy, but you know,

919
01:01:12,519 --> 01:01:18,400
the the communist part of the Soviet Union, the other

920
01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:21,639
tentacles and many things, and they were constantly trying to

921
01:01:21,719 --> 01:01:26,480
flip leftists in the UK and America like to the

922
01:01:26,519 --> 01:01:31,719
Warsaw Pact camp like away from this schismatic post sixty

923
01:01:31,760 --> 01:01:37,920
eight ideology, you know, and they had some success with

924
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:41,280
that in the UK, but in America, like it was

925
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:46,519
always hitting the wall, you know, like Gus Hall, I

926
01:01:46,599 --> 01:01:50,639
mean his theice thing. There were some guys on the right,

927
01:01:50,840 --> 01:01:56,039
especially in the earlier phase of the Cold War, like

928
01:01:56,159 --> 01:02:01,960
James Hartzung Medal, who I believe were signaling to some

929
01:02:02,039 --> 01:02:10,400
of these warsaw pack type agents in America, their notion

930
01:02:10,559 --> 01:02:13,840
being this is similar to what Girbel's notion of clicking

931
01:02:13,920 --> 01:02:16,360
up with the KPD, you know, during like the years

932
01:02:16,360 --> 01:02:19,559
of struggle to smash the social democrats. You know, there

933
01:02:19,559 --> 01:02:23,880
is an internal logic there. But my point is, uh,

934
01:02:24,800 --> 01:02:28,360
you know, the uh the Stazi managed to would basically

935
01:02:28,480 --> 01:02:33,800
totally completely flip the bottom mine off tendency, you know,

936
01:02:33,880 --> 01:02:38,480
and make it literally like an organ of a of

937
01:02:38,880 --> 01:02:44,159
the ddr UH violence apparatus. And I find that fascinating.

938
01:02:45,719 --> 01:02:50,760
So I wanted to get into the first iteration, the

939
01:02:50,800 --> 01:03:00,559
first iteration the literal botder mine Off faction and talk

940
01:03:00,599 --> 01:03:03,400
a bit about these personalities that constitute it and what

941
01:03:03,440 --> 01:03:06,599
their backgrounds were. I think that is essentially as essential

942
01:03:06,719 --> 01:03:10,280
understanding the German situation, and it's essential understanding why these

943
01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:13,039
people did what they did. I mean the point again

944
01:03:13,079 --> 01:03:16,400
and again, you know, zeitgeist is very real. That's not

945
01:03:16,639 --> 01:03:19,719
just some conceptual prejudice I have, Like what is possible

946
01:03:19,840 --> 01:03:22,679
in you know, the political realm with its own sphere

947
01:03:22,679 --> 01:03:27,440
of activity? Okay, And if you're talking about radical partisan action,

948
01:03:28,280 --> 01:03:30,760
like what is going to have resonance, what's going to

949
01:03:30,840 --> 01:03:34,199
index with the culture and the historical moment as it

950
01:03:34,280 --> 01:03:39,800
then exists, is uh, is very historically contingent. You know,

951
01:03:41,280 --> 01:03:48,119
German young people who wanted to strike out at regime

952
01:03:48,159 --> 01:03:53,679
authority really the only way they could conform that tendency

953
01:03:54,920 --> 01:04:00,559
was some sort of communism. Okay, German it had literally

954
01:04:00,639 --> 01:04:08,280
literally been annihilated and was partitioned and under hostile occupation

955
01:04:08,719 --> 01:04:12,679
to prevent a fascist going tendency from ever re emerging.

956
01:04:13,719 --> 01:04:21,760
You know, and even those that were emergent obviously early on,

957
01:04:23,199 --> 01:04:30,519
we're we're uh, we're entirely adjacent to the Soviet Union, you know,

958
01:04:30,719 --> 01:04:32,840
not in terms of the deep values or anything, but

959
01:04:34,320 --> 01:04:38,519
in terms of you know, geostrategic realities as well as

960
01:04:39,679 --> 01:04:47,840
you know, certain ideological interdependencies that were just essential in

961
01:04:47,880 --> 01:04:50,719
a in a in a bipolar world, with a Soviet

962
01:04:50,760 --> 01:04:58,119
superpower as the as as as the as the lesser

963
01:04:58,639 --> 01:05:01,519
enemy of Europe than the truth full of Europe, which

964
01:05:01,599 --> 01:05:06,239
was America. So I want to get into that a bit.

965
01:05:08,239 --> 01:05:16,159
The uh, the the rohod Army faction came into existence

966
01:05:16,199 --> 01:05:27,000
in May nineteen seventy and it was when there's an

967
01:05:27,039 --> 01:05:32,519
obvious Botter was sprung from prison. The batter had been

968
01:05:32,599 --> 01:05:34,960
locked up in nineteen sixty eight him and is a

969
01:05:36,599 --> 01:05:40,840
girlfriend of his at the time. He'd set fire to

970
01:05:40,920 --> 01:05:42,519
this department store, you.

971
01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:42,719
Speaker 5: Know, to.

972
01:05:44,239 --> 01:05:47,599
Speaker 2: Strike back at capitalism, you know, and he said that

973
01:05:47,719 --> 01:05:51,760
he did it because the Buddhas Republic, there's an apathy

974
01:05:51,840 --> 01:06:00,000
about what was happening in Vietnam, you know. And it's

975
01:06:00,079 --> 01:06:05,840
interesting that at first these guys and ladies were taking

976
01:06:05,840 --> 01:06:08,440
their cues very much from kind of like the American

977
01:06:09,519 --> 01:06:12,440
radical left, and that's why like Nam was kind of

978
01:06:12,480 --> 01:06:21,840
their conceptual focus. That changed very much, and the Palestine

979
01:06:22,039 --> 01:06:25,519
very much became their like the share punk in their

980
01:06:25,639 --> 01:06:30,400
view of revolutionary activity abroad and kind of like the

981
01:06:30,480 --> 01:06:38,599
key battleground against you know, uh, the uh, the capitalist

982
01:06:38,840 --> 01:06:47,079
uh global structure, which I think reading between the lines,

983
01:06:47,079 --> 01:06:51,840
it's pretty clear why that is okay, But in any event,

984
01:06:52,519 --> 01:06:58,880
you know, as of nineteen sixty eight, Botter was still

985
01:06:59,000 --> 01:07:04,320
very very very much kind of a rebel without a cause.

986
01:07:05,000 --> 01:07:10,039
You know, he drew up custodial sentence because Germany was

987
01:07:10,119 --> 01:07:15,400
very very draconian in these days, you know, and at

988
01:07:15,440 --> 01:07:18,800
an hour who was kind of hated by both the

989
01:07:18,880 --> 01:07:21,760
right and the left, but he was in purely objective terms,

990
01:07:21,760 --> 01:07:24,760
he was a pretty remarkable executive, you know, and he

991
01:07:25,039 --> 01:07:28,159
managed going to insinuate himself as all things to all people,

992
01:07:28,880 --> 01:07:33,360
you know, outside of the outside of the national socialist

993
01:07:33,440 --> 01:07:36,880
right would remained of it, and and and the you know,

994
01:07:36,920 --> 01:07:41,519
the far left. But he he realized a certain kind

995
01:07:41,559 --> 01:07:44,599
of conformity had to be imposed. You know, Germany was

996
01:07:44,679 --> 01:07:50,199
very much re arming and reconstituting to fight World War three,

997
01:07:50,440 --> 01:07:53,559
and ad made it clear that, you know, nuclear arms

998
01:07:53,559 --> 01:07:56,719
are going to be based in Germany. The Bundesbega was

999
01:07:56,760 --> 01:08:01,000
going to participate in their deployment and use when war

1000
01:08:01,079 --> 01:08:05,119
day came. This is incredibly controversial for all kinds of reasons,

1001
01:08:05,360 --> 01:08:12,760
you know, some prosaic, some rather complicated, but in any event,

1002
01:08:12,840 --> 01:08:17,199
that's the context. So young Andrea has bought her at

1003
01:08:17,199 --> 01:08:19,479
this point, I believe it was just kind of acting

1004
01:08:19,520 --> 01:08:24,720
out to act out. Okay, a lot of young people

1005
01:08:24,720 --> 01:08:30,640
inn now, well those were rather gifted intelligence. It's you know,

1006
01:08:30,680 --> 01:08:33,000
you have to you have to live life like literally

1007
01:08:33,079 --> 01:08:36,680
just in terms of duration to get a true perspective

1008
01:08:36,760 --> 01:08:47,760
on the historical situation. Interestingly, while he was incarcerated, obviously,

1009
01:08:47,960 --> 01:08:50,720
I say May fourteen seventy is the day when kind

1010
01:08:50,760 --> 01:08:54,239
of the the roode Army fraction came into existence. That'sn't

1011
01:08:54,239 --> 01:09:05,920
even sprung out of prison. Okay, now for whatever reason,

1012
01:09:08,079 --> 01:09:10,319
and we'll get into the Bouders like background in a minute.

1013
01:09:10,359 --> 01:09:16,079
Like his upbringing, he was an incredibly contentious, violent person.

1014
01:09:17,319 --> 01:09:24,159
He wasn't traditionally charismatic, but uh, people apparently would would

1015
01:09:24,159 --> 01:09:27,319
would would would gravitate to him and and treat him

1016
01:09:27,319 --> 01:09:34,840
as a natural leader. Okay. He uh, within his orbit

1017
01:09:34,960 --> 01:09:38,359
was very much a quarter of young outsiders as it were.

1018
01:09:39,640 --> 01:09:48,000
All right, And despite his kind of like his nature

1019
01:09:48,039 --> 01:09:50,319
won't be onond cantagrious. He was like a violent person.

1020
01:09:50,800 --> 01:09:52,800
You know. He if people disagreed with them, he would

1021
01:09:52,840 --> 01:09:56,199
attack them like physically. They became his ops, you know,

1022
01:09:56,359 --> 01:10:00,239
like and some degree of that like has to live

1023
01:10:00,239 --> 01:10:02,199
in kind of like the heart and mind every partisan,

1024
01:10:02,319 --> 01:10:07,159
but in his case it was it was truly extreme

1025
01:10:10,600 --> 01:10:19,840
that uh the primary architect that's springing him out of

1026
01:10:19,880 --> 01:10:34,319
prison was uh Ulrika Meinhoff, who was is sometimes girlfriend

1027
01:10:34,399 --> 01:10:37,600
but more of kind of an what kind of an

1028
01:10:37,600 --> 01:10:41,039
ideological fellow traveler. One thing that was unusual about the

1029
01:10:41,079 --> 01:10:48,000
bottom Minehoff grouping they always had women with them. Now,

1030
01:10:48,039 --> 01:10:50,239
at first it was probably I mean, not to be

1031
01:10:50,279 --> 01:10:52,159
crass about it, but they were, you know, because they

1032
01:10:52,159 --> 01:10:54,439
were young and horny and like young guys want women

1033
01:10:54,479 --> 01:10:57,199
around and vice versa. You know, young women gravitate towards

1034
01:10:57,199 --> 01:11:02,720
guys and their age open. But there was a there

1035
01:11:02,760 --> 01:11:05,600
was an odd ideological dimension to it too. Like when

1036
01:11:05,600 --> 01:11:08,119
I say an odd ideological dimension, I mean it was

1037
01:11:08,159 --> 01:11:12,199
shaved by the conditions of of the immediate post war years.

1038
01:11:12,920 --> 01:11:15,439
You know, it wasn't it wasn't It wasn't dummy feminism,

1039
01:11:16,640 --> 01:11:20,439
and dummy feminists don't like lock and load and and

1040
01:11:20,239 --> 01:11:22,880
and and and start knocking over banks and and springing

1041
01:11:23,319 --> 01:11:26,439
and springing their people out of prison and and and

1042
01:11:26,680 --> 01:11:34,640
shooting cops. Okay, obviously, you know this caused some odd

1043
01:11:34,760 --> 01:11:38,119
challenges for them later, especially as they came to index

1044
01:11:39,239 --> 01:11:43,359
with Islamic resistance fighters. Obviously not because it's like mos

1045
01:11:43,399 --> 01:11:45,880
Loas have no problem training women to fight, and they do,

1046
01:11:46,079 --> 01:11:49,319
but they can't have men and women cohabitating and sleeping

1047
01:11:49,319 --> 01:11:51,399
in common quarters, and they can't have women and men's

1048
01:11:51,439 --> 01:11:55,720
barracks and vice versa. We'll get into that later. But

1049
01:11:57,800 --> 01:12:01,960
the one of their is in America, at least, the

1050
01:12:02,039 --> 01:12:05,199
World Army Faction. I think this kind of fascination developed

1051
01:12:05,199 --> 01:12:07,079
around him. It is because there was like these good

1052
01:12:07,079 --> 01:12:10,319
looking like European broads always like clicked up with them,

1053
01:12:10,520 --> 01:12:13,039
you know, and kind of like the Petty Hurst thing,

1054
01:12:13,720 --> 01:12:17,399
you know, like it people like really like like Americans

1055
01:12:17,399 --> 01:12:20,159
are always like really fascinated by like women handling weapons.

1056
01:12:20,279 --> 01:12:23,119
It was like literally like a quasi like pornographic genre

1057
01:12:23,199 --> 01:12:26,640
of like of like half naked girls like like ripping

1058
01:12:26,720 --> 01:12:30,079
rounds through you know, like like assault weapons. You know,

1059
01:12:30,119 --> 01:12:34,159
like like like it's a thing, you know, and it's

1060
01:12:34,279 --> 01:12:36,920
not I'm not being some like corny academic to say

1061
01:12:36,920 --> 01:12:39,840
it's like obviously like very sexual. You know, like it's

1062
01:12:39,960 --> 01:12:47,840
this to be clear to anybody, but you know, under

1063
01:12:47,960 --> 01:12:55,159
his body, he gets sprung from this high security prison,

1064
01:12:58,319 --> 01:13:07,279
you know, by by you know, a masked man and

1065
01:13:07,359 --> 01:13:16,119
these two young women, you know, and as the police

1066
01:13:16,159 --> 01:13:22,239
opened fire on Andrew's body, he leaped out a window

1067
01:13:23,159 --> 01:13:32,399
like literally, you know, like it's some it's and you

1068
01:13:32,439 --> 01:13:37,000
know they uh, they're uh they're they're they're real. Man.

1069
01:13:37,119 --> 01:13:40,359
Uh was able to snag him street side, you know,

1070
01:13:40,439 --> 01:13:42,479
and get away, you know, like this kind of thing

1071
01:13:42,600 --> 01:13:46,119
just didn't this kind of thing that didn't happen. And

1072
01:13:46,439 --> 01:13:48,000
you know, and like in post war Germany, you know,

1073
01:13:48,000 --> 01:13:52,600
Germany's orderly place, you know, it's not just a cliche.

1074
01:13:53,000 --> 01:14:05,239
You know, during uh, during the struggle uh Elrique Meinhoff

1075
01:14:06,279 --> 01:14:12,239
who to disguise herself with like this long like like

1076
01:14:12,239 --> 01:14:15,159
like wig like one of the police who tried to

1077
01:14:15,199 --> 01:14:17,720
grab her by the hair like snatches wi go off,

1078
01:14:18,039 --> 01:14:19,920
you know, revealing that she had like you know, like

1079
01:14:19,960 --> 01:14:23,119
a military style like blonde haircut, you know, and there

1080
01:14:23,159 --> 01:14:24,600
was something confusion as to whether she was like a

1081
01:14:24,600 --> 01:14:28,199
man or a woman too, like an initial identification. You know.

1082
01:14:28,239 --> 01:14:30,880
So this was a very this was a crazy situation,

1083
01:14:32,319 --> 01:14:41,880
you know, and this made uh, this didn't just make

1084
01:14:43,359 --> 01:14:47,119
this didn't just make you know, national headlines in the

1085
01:14:47,119 --> 01:14:50,000
Bunas Republic, but it was something like the police aren't

1086
01:14:50,000 --> 01:14:51,840
prepared to deal with this. I guess we'll get into

1087
01:14:53,079 --> 01:14:56,840
The police had agents insinuated into all the major trade unions,

1088
01:14:57,079 --> 01:15:00,560
and especially for some reason like the Transferred hation and

1089
01:15:00,920 --> 01:15:04,680
like railroad Workers Union was shot through with communists like

1090
01:15:04,760 --> 01:15:10,079
pro Warsaw Pact, you know, like Marxist Leninists, so they

1091
01:15:10,199 --> 01:15:13,520
viewed them as their ops. Okay, like the police did,

1092
01:15:13,760 --> 01:15:16,680
like these kinds of crazy guys who are getting like

1093
01:15:16,760 --> 01:15:20,479
sprung out of out of the joint, you know, by

1094
01:15:20,520 --> 01:15:25,800
gun toting females, you know, and are are are pulling

1095
01:15:25,840 --> 01:15:29,479
off you know, wild operations at least if to that point,

1096
01:15:29,560 --> 01:15:33,279
not particularly organized, well thought out, you know, like the

1097
01:15:33,600 --> 01:15:41,760
firebombing department stores and you know, sloganeering, revolutionary stuff. You

1098
01:15:41,800 --> 01:15:45,680
know this that this weren't prepared for it, you know,

1099
01:15:45,760 --> 01:15:48,720
like it was an issue of first impression and it

1100
01:15:48,800 --> 01:15:52,960
wasn't traditional. It wasn't traditional street volatility by the kind

1101
01:15:53,000 --> 01:15:56,159
of Europe's used to, you know, like something very like

1102
01:15:56,560 --> 01:15:59,000
almost kind of like American about that. You know, those

1103
01:15:59,079 --> 01:16:07,199
kinds of those kinds are outlaw actions. You know, So

1104
01:16:07,279 --> 01:16:11,079
who who is Andrea's bought her? Andrea's bad is born

1105
01:16:11,279 --> 01:16:14,560
in nineteen forty three in May. He was born in Munich.

1106
01:16:16,560 --> 01:16:21,640
His father was a historian archivist and like a real intellectual.

1107
01:16:25,000 --> 01:16:28,279
He'd been conscripted into Wehrmacht, you know, like like all

1108
01:16:28,319 --> 01:16:32,039
evil bodied men. He was taken prisoner by the by

1109
01:16:32,119 --> 01:16:34,800
the Russians in forty five and just was never seen again.

1110
01:16:34,880 --> 01:16:38,279
He just never came home, you know, and bought his

1111
01:16:38,399 --> 01:16:44,520
mother never remarried, so Andrea's baughter. As a boy, he

1112
01:16:44,560 --> 01:16:48,560
lived with his widowed mom. You know, uh who kind

1113
01:16:48,600 --> 01:16:51,119
of you know, continued to pine from that someday you know,

1114
01:16:51,319 --> 01:16:58,119
dad was gonna come home, you know, a grandmother and

1115
01:16:58,239 --> 01:17:01,840
like various you know, aunts and uncles, but he basically

1116
01:17:01,840 --> 01:17:05,239
lived in this like female household without a father, you know.

1117
01:17:05,560 --> 01:17:07,880
And there were there's millions of men who just never

1118
01:17:07,960 --> 01:17:11,319
came home, you know, because and and one hundreds of

1119
01:17:11,319 --> 01:17:14,079
thousands of their fate was unknown. You know. They were

1120
01:17:14,119 --> 01:17:17,960
either they were taking prisoner and died in some gulag,

1121
01:17:18,640 --> 01:17:22,520
you know, they they were cut to pieces you know

1122
01:17:22,520 --> 01:17:24,760
as small arms fire and died in the snow and

1123
01:17:24,920 --> 01:17:28,199
during you know, the desperate retreat they they were their

1124
01:17:28,199 --> 01:17:31,319
body was never recovered or identified, you know. So it's

1125
01:17:31,359 --> 01:17:36,520
some I'm telling you that that impacted the perspective of

1126
01:17:36,520 --> 01:17:40,840
these boys when they became you know, young men. You know,

1127
01:17:41,079 --> 01:17:44,239
this like generation of fatherless boys who grew up in

1128
01:17:44,279 --> 01:17:48,560
this authoritarian society, yet that didn't really index with them culturally.

1129
01:17:50,039 --> 01:17:52,920
There's armed men everywhere who are there to police them,

1130
01:17:52,960 --> 01:17:55,399
who aren't of their culture, who they can kind of

1131
01:17:55,399 --> 01:17:58,319
relate to, you know, racially and linguistically, you know, at

1132
01:17:58,399 --> 01:18:00,920
least like the white troops. You know that this had

1133
01:18:00,960 --> 01:18:08,920
to be an incredibly confusing situation, you know, and pretty

1134
01:18:09,000 --> 01:18:14,880
much not exception the early bottom mine off grouping, they

1135
01:18:15,000 --> 01:18:17,600
all had some kind of background like.

1136
01:18:17,560 --> 01:18:24,399
Speaker 1: This, well nobody, nobody thinks of West Germany, what is

1137
01:18:24,680 --> 01:18:28,079
what what was to be called West Germany as actually

1138
01:18:28,119 --> 01:18:35,640
being under occupation. They saw West Germany as the free democracy,

1139
01:18:35,680 --> 01:18:38,680
western democracy as opposed to East.

1140
01:18:38,439 --> 01:18:43,720
Speaker 2: Germany, which is crazy too, because yeah, no, you're absolutely right.

1141
01:18:44,079 --> 01:18:48,039
You know, like if you look at just you know,

1142
01:18:48,079 --> 01:18:51,119
West Germany, like a quarter of Germany was you know,

1143
01:18:51,319 --> 01:18:56,159
the DDR historical Germany. So you have West Germany. The

1144
01:18:56,199 --> 01:19:03,920
occupation forces from forty nine and to ninety one were

1145
01:19:03,960 --> 01:19:08,680
three hundred thousand men Americans. Another content there's a quarter

1146
01:19:08,720 --> 01:19:13,399
million contingent of British, French and Banalugs troops too. Half

1147
01:19:13,439 --> 01:19:18,640
a million men in a country smaller than Wyoming, you know,

1148
01:19:19,760 --> 01:19:25,840
armed to the teeth, you know, ready for war at

1149
01:19:25,840 --> 01:19:30,920
a moment's notice, you know, and at at checkpoint Charlie.

1150
01:19:31,239 --> 01:19:34,720
You know, it was things were fairly civilized. But when

1151
01:19:34,720 --> 01:19:37,920
you went to the true like inner German border, like

1152
01:19:38,039 --> 01:19:41,239
my dad told me, and this track that William Odom said,

1153
01:19:41,279 --> 01:19:44,119
and with what you know, enlisted men who served this,

1154
01:19:44,279 --> 01:19:46,720
it it felt like a war. You know. They were

1155
01:19:46,720 --> 01:19:54,039
getting buzzed constantly by DDR aircraft sappers would uh would

1156
01:19:54,119 --> 01:19:58,479
would screw with the concertina lire and like probe their

1157
01:19:58,600 --> 01:20:05,079
uh you know the hardness of their other fixed defenses.

1158
01:20:05,920 --> 01:20:10,560
This was not remotely normal, you know. And so and

1159
01:20:10,560 --> 01:20:15,319
on top of that, like I said, basically, you know,

1160
01:20:17,079 --> 01:20:21,560
Germany lost five and a half million men. You know,

1161
01:20:23,079 --> 01:20:25,920
there was the country was full of like little kids,

1162
01:20:26,439 --> 01:20:29,479
like old people and women and and like nobody had

1163
01:20:29,520 --> 01:20:31,920
a father, you know, Like David Irving talked about that

1164
01:20:32,079 --> 01:20:34,000
because he said in England it wasn't really as bad,

1165
01:20:34,039 --> 01:20:36,800
but he's like, you know, Irving's dad didn't die, but

1166
01:20:37,079 --> 01:20:39,199
he just kind of like went nuts and like left

1167
01:20:39,199 --> 01:20:41,199
the family. He was like a Royal navy man who

1168
01:20:41,279 --> 01:20:43,920
couldn't adjusted civilian life and everything's that he went to

1169
01:20:43,920 --> 01:20:45,640
school with a bunch of guys who had no dad.

1170
01:20:46,560 --> 01:20:51,920
You know that that that completely that that creates weird pathologies,

1171
01:20:52,640 --> 01:20:56,439
you know, and especially the Germans like they were, you know,

1172
01:20:57,880 --> 01:21:00,760
the kind of the kind of like soft pedal and

1173
01:21:00,840 --> 01:21:05,720
Morgenthele plan that became their constitution. That's totally bizarre. I mean,

1174
01:21:05,720 --> 01:21:08,159
aside the fact it's not like the moral aspects, and

1175
01:21:08,159 --> 01:21:12,319
aside from the fact that you know it's it's it's

1176
01:21:12,359 --> 01:21:15,359
it's tailored to kind of destroy the will of people

1177
01:21:15,399 --> 01:21:19,000
to perpetuate itself. Like that's bizarre. You know, You're like

1178
01:21:19,439 --> 01:21:23,880
you're going to school and some guy or some lady

1179
01:21:24,680 --> 01:21:26,600
is like reading off a lesson book that came from

1180
01:21:26,640 --> 01:21:30,239
the Department of the Army, like written by some crazy Zionists,

1181
01:21:31,439 --> 01:21:33,800
educating you about how like educating you about how like

1182
01:21:33,920 --> 01:21:36,720
you're part of this like murderous race of people, you know,

1183
01:21:36,840 --> 01:21:40,319
who must atone to the Jews because your history from

1184
01:21:40,399 --> 01:21:44,359
Meister eck Art until Adolf Hitler is about anti Semitism,

1185
01:21:44,800 --> 01:21:52,840
like that's literally insane, you know, like it's and that

1186
01:21:52,920 --> 01:21:55,000
kind of thing made it impossible for people to trust

1187
01:21:55,000 --> 01:22:01,680
an authority, you know. And uh, Germany, more than most

1188
01:22:01,720 --> 01:22:05,000
societies was was in his one based on social capital,

1189
01:22:06,199 --> 01:22:09,680
you know, like that that that that made people act

1190
01:22:09,720 --> 01:22:13,560
really screwed, you know, and I that, in my opinion,

1191
01:22:13,600 --> 01:22:16,479
the later iterations of the body mine off faction are

1192
01:22:16,479 --> 01:22:21,439
more complicated. It's something that's more simple, it's just more complicated.

1193
01:22:21,479 --> 01:22:26,359
Speaker 1: Just to inject this, my my mom would go My

1194
01:22:26,800 --> 01:22:29,279
dad told me that my mom would go to East

1195
01:22:29,520 --> 01:22:32,960
East Berlin, so she'd go through she'd go through Charlie.

1196
01:22:33,560 --> 01:22:36,920
And he made it sound like, you know, because he

1197
01:22:37,039 --> 01:22:38,840
was a cold water. He made it sound like, you know,

1198
01:22:38,960 --> 01:22:40,880
she was being you know, she would have to do

1199
01:22:40,920 --> 01:22:41,800
strip searches and.

1200
01:22:41,720 --> 01:22:42,279
Speaker 3: Stuff like that.

1201
01:22:42,439 --> 01:22:45,119
Speaker 1: No, I asked my mom, my mom's like I had.

1202
01:22:45,640 --> 01:22:48,840
I was treated much worse coming back into West Germany

1203
01:22:49,520 --> 01:22:52,000
by people who look like me and sounded like me.

1204
01:22:53,439 --> 01:22:55,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, I'm sure that's.

1205
01:22:56,279 --> 01:22:59,199
Speaker 1: The museums over there. People don't realize they had amazing

1206
01:22:59,279 --> 01:23:00,840
museums and like East Berlin.

1207
01:23:02,319 --> 01:23:04,880
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and it's the it's the traditional I mean,

1208
01:23:04,880 --> 01:23:07,479
that was the traditional government district among other things too,

1209
01:23:08,000 --> 01:23:09,319
you know what I mean, like there's reason, there's the

1210
01:23:09,359 --> 01:23:12,199
reason why the Soviets wanted Berlin and why East Berlin

1211
01:23:12,359 --> 01:23:15,920
became the capital, you know, I mean, that's that was.

1212
01:23:15,960 --> 01:23:19,039
That wasn't just a mark on a map, you know,

1213
01:23:19,039 --> 01:23:22,800
it was it was just like a prestige objective, you know.

1214
01:23:22,960 --> 01:23:27,800
I mean, that's europe Central, you know, quite literally, and yeah,

1215
01:23:27,840 --> 01:23:33,760
it's it's an incredible place, and you know, but yeah,

1216
01:23:33,880 --> 01:23:44,960
the as apparently uh bodery reputation even as a even

1217
01:23:45,000 --> 01:23:51,760
as a little kid, as being highly volatile, extraordinarily strong willed,

1218
01:23:55,000 --> 01:24:00,399
he apparently resisted all authority sort of instinctively. I don't,

1219
01:24:00,439 --> 01:24:05,239
I don't, I don't trust these uh official psychological takes

1220
01:24:06,319 --> 01:24:09,640
on people, you know in uh in America or Western

1221
01:24:09,720 --> 01:24:14,439
Europe that that declare you know, operational defiance, oppositional defiance, disorder.

1222
01:24:15,520 --> 01:24:19,920
But bout her, even some of his uh even some

1223
01:24:19,960 --> 01:24:23,960
of his comrades and like Rapis basically attracted what they

1224
01:24:23,960 --> 01:24:30,680
said about him, and uh apparently apparently he he can't

1225
01:24:30,760 --> 01:24:34,960
strongly resent religious instruction. He refused to celebrate holidays. He

1226
01:24:35,000 --> 01:24:41,239
refused even celebrate Christmas or observe his own birthday, you know,

1227
01:24:41,359 --> 01:24:44,760
and it and and again he even as uh his

1228
01:24:45,199 --> 01:24:48,720
people had grown up with them, were emphatic that even

1229
01:24:48,760 --> 01:24:50,239
as a little kid he was he was like a

1230
01:24:50,319 --> 01:24:59,199
kid that others followed, you know, they uh. But as

1231
01:24:59,199 --> 01:25:03,760
he was sprung from prison on May fourteen, nineteen seventy,

1232
01:25:03,920 --> 01:25:06,960
his comrades didn't they did they didn't have a plan,

1233
01:25:07,439 --> 01:25:13,399
like they literally had no plan. Olriki Minoff she she

1234
01:25:13,560 --> 01:25:16,239
literally had a friend, who's this actress who lived a

1235
01:25:16,279 --> 01:25:21,359
few streets away from the Central Institute of Social Research.

1236
01:25:22,359 --> 01:25:25,359
Alriqi Minoff was was an academic, you know, like like

1237
01:25:25,439 --> 01:25:29,520
social science type, and therefore she worked so her big,

1238
01:25:29,640 --> 01:25:31,760
her big her in the in the guys big plan

1239
01:25:32,000 --> 01:25:34,039
was well, well, we'll go to your friend's house and

1240
01:25:34,079 --> 01:25:36,560
demand it. You know. She let us, you know, like

1241
01:25:36,640 --> 01:25:38,279
use it as a safe house until we figure out

1242
01:25:38,319 --> 01:25:43,079
what to do, you know. And I mean they traded

1243
01:25:43,119 --> 01:25:46,680
shots with police, you know, one of whom was seriously injured,

1244
01:25:49,079 --> 01:25:54,159
you know, which which again I mean rarely rarely happened

1245
01:25:54,159 --> 01:26:00,520
in Germany, you know then or no, this friend of

1246
01:26:00,680 --> 01:26:08,319
uh riky Minoff probably under some degree duress, you know,

1247
01:26:08,439 --> 01:26:11,319
they they simply rang the doorbell and said we need

1248
01:26:11,359 --> 01:26:16,079
your solidarity. You know, the revolution is started. This poor

1249
01:26:17,159 --> 01:26:19,800
was effecting a woman and then got like, you know,

1250
01:26:21,560 --> 01:26:24,560
she was housing these fugitives. And this was this was

1251
01:26:24,600 --> 01:26:27,880
one of the biggest manhunts of of of post war hines,

1252
01:26:28,720 --> 01:26:33,159
you know, and almost, uh, almost everybody they were looking

1253
01:26:33,159 --> 01:26:35,680
for was like sitting in this poor like randomly the's apartment.

1254
01:26:36,439 --> 01:26:46,319
But when this really kind of becomes when this really

1255
01:26:46,359 --> 01:26:49,880
kind of becomes interesting, is is their their next plan

1256
01:26:50,000 --> 01:26:54,079
to move? And this this also represented the change in

1257
01:26:54,119 --> 01:27:00,239
the ideological disposition of the of the fraction and all.

1258
01:27:00,399 --> 01:27:05,560
But it also, you know, like I said, it indexed

1259
01:27:05,600 --> 01:27:10,800
with a basic German tendency towards revolutionary action, and that

1260
01:27:10,920 --> 01:27:15,920
was authentically German. Whoever sort of couched it was in

1261
01:27:17,479 --> 01:27:25,520
Marxist Leninists pseudoscience or you know, gobbledegook or however much

1262
01:27:25,520 --> 01:27:31,720
it was kind of framed in these like liberationist narratives

1263
01:27:31,720 --> 01:27:36,920
of the nineteen sixties. They agreed the next move would

1264
01:27:37,079 --> 01:27:39,560
they had to leave Berlin as soon as possible, obviously,

1265
01:27:40,680 --> 01:27:45,800
and they uniformly agreed they'd go to the Middle East

1266
01:27:48,399 --> 01:27:53,279
and uh, you know, the Palestinian resistance would would provide

1267
01:27:53,319 --> 01:28:03,279
them like aid and comfort as fellow revolutionaries. Somehow, either

1268
01:28:03,960 --> 01:28:11,720
el Riki Minoff Bottr or both, they made the acquaintance

1269
01:28:11,760 --> 01:28:16,079
of a man named Said Dudin. Sai Dudin is still alive.

1270
01:28:17,800 --> 01:28:22,760
He he was a Jordanian emigrat. He was the son

1271
01:28:22,800 --> 01:28:25,800
of a Jordanian emmigrate to West Berlin. And he was

1272
01:28:25,800 --> 01:28:28,640
a political scientist. And his father was this big shot

1273
01:28:28,960 --> 01:28:31,880
like like social researcher and like regional studies expert on

1274
01:28:32,359 --> 01:28:37,199
like Arab societies and political cultures. Sai Dudin's never been

1275
01:28:37,199 --> 01:28:39,880
committed convicted of a crime, always be en hanceled by

1276
01:28:39,880 --> 01:28:47,319
the police, you know, over decades, for various reasons. Said

1277
01:28:47,439 --> 01:28:56,720
Dudden contacted UH his people in Jordan. He arranged tickets

1278
01:28:57,399 --> 01:29:02,279
with UH East German inter Fluge Airline, which was the

1279
01:29:02,359 --> 01:29:09,680
DDRS National Airline. He booked them nine rooms in UH

1280
01:29:10,119 --> 01:29:17,039
East Berlin under assume names, and he arranged for people

1281
01:29:17,039 --> 01:29:21,960
to transport them to East Berlin. You know, about three

1282
01:29:22,000 --> 01:29:32,800
weeks subsequent, So on June eighth, nineteen seventy, the first

1283
01:29:32,840 --> 01:29:41,600
group of U of RIF operators departed Stonefield Airport in

1284
01:29:41,680 --> 01:29:50,479
East Berlin for Palestine. Interestingly, and I believe this and

1285
01:29:50,560 --> 01:29:54,319
I have to describe was all Horse to Mahler before

1286
01:29:55,159 --> 01:29:59,720
they departed for the Middle East and in the immediate

1287
01:29:59,760 --> 01:30:03,680
a man, I've been talking several days of uh, the

1288
01:30:03,760 --> 01:30:11,239
prison break, an anonymous phone call was made to Michelle Ray.

1289
01:30:12,840 --> 01:30:14,880
She was a former channel model and and she was

1290
01:30:14,920 --> 01:30:18,960
a big jot like lady journalist in French media. I'm

1291
01:30:19,000 --> 01:30:22,119
trying to think of, you know, back that this was

1292
01:30:22,159 --> 01:30:23,640
back in the day when you had like, you know,

1293
01:30:23,680 --> 01:30:30,760
true like celebrity like newspeople. She was a super glamorous

1294
01:30:30,800 --> 01:30:36,960
like like figure like personage. Ol Ricky Manoff undoubtedly told

1295
01:30:37,399 --> 01:30:40,000
Horst Mahler whoever plays this call, and I'm telling you,

1296
01:30:40,000 --> 01:30:43,800
I'm certain it was Horse Mahler who orchestrated this about

1297
01:30:44,359 --> 01:30:47,199
like name like named Michelle Ray. Because they'd very slightly

1298
01:30:47,279 --> 01:30:53,079
known each other from this magazine called Concrete, which was

1299
01:30:53,159 --> 01:30:56,279
kind of like it was kind of like Vanity Fair

1300
01:30:56,439 --> 01:31:01,640
but more serious and uh Olrik min Off, you know,

1301
01:31:01,720 --> 01:31:05,319
being this kind of university type like mingle in some

1302
01:31:05,399 --> 01:31:09,520
high society circles. You know, she'd come across Michelle Ray.

1303
01:31:09,920 --> 01:31:13,520
And undoubtedly, because like women are going to recognize these things,

1304
01:31:13,520 --> 01:31:15,319
She's like, look if you want, if you want if

1305
01:31:15,319 --> 01:31:17,279
you want to capture cheap clout, and you want like

1306
01:31:17,399 --> 01:31:21,279
rapid headlines. You know, we got to contact her because

1307
01:31:21,279 --> 01:31:24,720
if we talked to a German journalists or whatever they're

1308
01:31:24,760 --> 01:31:30,680
they're going to try and suppress this. So Michelle Ray

1309
01:31:31,000 --> 01:31:35,279
was told that if she came to Berlin, she get

1310
01:31:35,479 --> 01:31:38,520
you know, a quote big story about like the you know,

1311
01:31:38,560 --> 01:31:45,399
the the new resistance, you know, from the radical left.

1312
01:31:49,119 --> 01:31:57,039
In a combination of curiosity and maybe naivete, she agreed

1313
01:31:58,359 --> 01:32:03,239
to meet them. Uh uh. She arrived in Berlin a

1314
01:32:03,279 --> 01:32:06,960
few days before the departure to Palestine on June fourth,

1315
01:32:08,840 --> 01:32:16,920
and she she first met Andre's botter. Andre's bought her

1316
01:32:17,720 --> 01:32:22,000
escorted her back to an apartment's safe house where Ulriki

1317
01:32:22,079 --> 01:32:28,399
Minoff himself and a woman named Gudrin Ensulin lived. Gudrin

1318
01:32:28,520 --> 01:32:31,600
Enslin was, Uh, it's hard to tell because of the

1319
01:32:32,159 --> 01:32:36,760
kind of these more really polyamorous hit these like that's

1320
01:32:36,760 --> 01:32:39,319
what some people try to characterize it as, because Andrew's

1321
01:32:39,359 --> 01:32:41,600
bought her, like like like having sex with a lot

1322
01:32:41,600 --> 01:32:44,159
of girls who was also like doing dirt with in

1323
01:32:44,239 --> 01:32:47,840
the street and like carrying out terrorist activities with It's

1324
01:32:47,840 --> 01:32:51,880
like Gudrin Enslin and and Lriki Minoff like they were

1325
01:32:51,880 --> 01:32:55,079
both like his girlfriends at various times, you know, like

1326
01:32:55,159 --> 01:32:58,880
get uh, depending on what was going on. And Gudrin

1327
01:32:58,920 --> 01:33:01,680
and Ensulin is very much more of like a doer

1328
01:33:02,399 --> 01:33:04,960
like Gudrin Enslin, as we'll see, she kind of seems

1329
01:33:05,000 --> 01:33:06,520
like the kind of broad who like could be your

1330
01:33:06,520 --> 01:33:09,520
wheelman if you're like knocking over a bank like Oricky.

1331
01:33:09,560 --> 01:33:12,199
Minoff was definitely down. I mean, she handled a gun

1332
01:33:12,279 --> 01:33:16,159
to help spring Botter, but she was very much kind

1333
01:33:16,199 --> 01:33:19,359
of like a public ineleectual type who could do things

1334
01:33:19,399 --> 01:33:22,640
like getting this French glamorous news lady to show up. Okay,

1335
01:33:23,399 --> 01:33:26,720
So it's pretty obvious Botter like Manson. And I'm not

1336
01:33:26,760 --> 01:33:29,279
saying I actually hold Manson is on a steem. I'm

1337
01:33:29,279 --> 01:33:32,880
not saying this is a cast shade on Botter. He

1338
01:33:33,000 --> 01:33:36,159
was very good at identifying certain talents and women and

1339
01:33:36,199 --> 01:33:41,359
getting women to do things that he wanted, okay, and

1340
01:33:41,439 --> 01:33:45,359
certain kinds of men that's like their hustle. Okay. It's

1341
01:33:45,359 --> 01:33:47,319
not just that they're only in like girls a lot,

1342
01:33:47,359 --> 01:33:52,880
although that's part of it. Women have certain skill sets,

1343
01:33:52,920 --> 01:33:57,600
women can gonna fly under the radar there. That is

1344
01:33:57,640 --> 01:33:59,960
an effective strategy depending on what you're trying to do,

1345
01:34:01,159 --> 01:34:02,920
you know, it is. You know, that's why I tell

1346
01:34:03,000 --> 01:34:04,720
guys not to be like down on women and talking

1347
01:34:04,760 --> 01:34:09,119
about revolutionary conditions, because that's very wrong. Head. But that's

1348
01:34:09,199 --> 01:34:11,199
kind of the way to understand it. Like it's not

1349
01:34:11,399 --> 01:34:15,760
like I said you you'll read these kinds of cd

1350
01:34:16,319 --> 01:34:20,520
uh deliberately lurid kind of American or British accounts, and

1351
01:34:20,560 --> 01:34:24,479
it's they they presented like, oh, these were a bunch

1352
01:34:24,479 --> 01:34:26,920
of hippie degenerates, just him and some big orgy. It's

1353
01:34:26,920 --> 01:34:31,880
not what was going on. And I think that's important

1354
01:34:31,880 --> 01:34:37,079
to understanding the kind of dynamic here, you know. But

1355
01:34:37,199 --> 01:34:42,000
all three of them were disguised. Michelle Ray annoy you

1356
01:34:42,000 --> 01:34:46,560
who they were really Apparently she didn't even recognize l

1357
01:34:46,600 --> 01:34:49,359
Ricky mine Off, even though they thevery vaguely knew each other.

1358
01:34:50,439 --> 01:34:54,279
And most importantly, of course, Mallard was there, okay, and

1359
01:34:54,399 --> 01:34:58,119
Mahler was going who basically engaged her, you know, And

1360
01:34:58,520 --> 01:35:03,239
like I said, my who remains remain an important figure

1361
01:35:03,239 --> 01:35:09,319
into the twenty first century and dissident quarters. I believe

1362
01:35:09,399 --> 01:35:15,239
he truly was like the the ideologue behind this whole enterprise.

1363
01:35:15,560 --> 01:35:18,399
He was older, He was a lawyer, you know, he was.

1364
01:35:20,920 --> 01:35:23,840
He wasn't a hot head like Botter, you know. He

1365
01:35:24,800 --> 01:35:31,439
It just attracts I if you you know, index it

1366
01:35:31,560 --> 01:35:37,560
with with with with similar groupings of people under revolutionary

1367
01:35:37,680 --> 01:35:41,600
revolutionary conditions or conditions they believe are eminently revolutionary. Okay,

1368
01:35:42,319 --> 01:35:50,079
it's that he represents a type. Okay. They told Michelle

1369
01:35:50,199 --> 01:35:55,479
Ray that you know, they kicked off the revolution that

1370
01:35:55,560 --> 01:35:59,159
you know, the Buddhists Republic, the Center could not hold that.

1371
01:36:00,640 --> 01:36:05,119
You know, they were leaving Berlin, uh to go to

1372
01:36:05,159 --> 01:36:10,119
Palestine and fight as fitting and and and possibly murdered themselves,

1373
01:36:10,319 --> 01:36:16,560
you know. Michelle Ray, she passed a copy of the

1374
01:36:16,600 --> 01:36:22,039
tape she made to their Spiegel, which went nuts and

1375
01:36:22,199 --> 01:36:25,039
blew it up, you know, and uh, the Roade Army

1376
01:36:25,079 --> 01:36:30,840
faction overnight became this internationally known mob of dangerous terrorists,

1377
01:36:31,239 --> 01:36:35,000
you know. And of course, you know, in America, the

1378
01:36:35,039 --> 01:36:37,159
claim was like, oh, this is this is the Ivans,

1379
01:36:37,199 --> 01:36:39,159
like these these these people are you know, like KGB

1380
01:36:39,359 --> 01:36:45,359
or g r U. You know, the uh, the Buddhist

1381
01:36:45,359 --> 01:36:48,079
Republic was convinced that, you know, there was there's hundreds

1382
01:36:48,119 --> 01:36:50,840
of people and cells that were about to become active.

1383
01:36:51,680 --> 01:36:57,000
You know it uh like the the like the European

1384
01:36:57,079 --> 01:37:02,560
Secure Internal Security Apparatus, you know, like like completely shits

1385
01:37:02,600 --> 01:37:06,520
pants in other words, so Miller knew exactly what he

1386
01:37:06,600 --> 01:37:19,199
was doing. Later, when asked why they'd sprung Botter from custody,

1387
01:37:20,760 --> 01:37:27,920
Alriki Minoff said, well, there were three reasons, she said.

1388
01:37:27,960 --> 01:37:31,399
First quote, she said quote. First, of course, because Andrea's

1389
01:37:31,439 --> 01:37:34,920
Botty is a is a cadre, the road arm refraction.

1390
01:37:35,079 --> 01:37:40,920
They've got their own vocabulary. When they say cadre, they

1391
01:37:41,039 --> 01:37:44,439
use the word in a singular noun and denoting a

1392
01:37:45,800 --> 01:37:49,359
like a squad leader, you know, or like a cell commander,

1393
01:37:50,199 --> 01:37:56,439
you know, or or like platoon leader, you know. And

1394
01:37:56,479 --> 01:38:04,319
that's also why A until ninety eight when they ceased operations,

1395
01:38:04,560 --> 01:38:08,319
they'd always they'd always name like the action group that

1396
01:38:08,439 --> 01:38:12,600
was engaged, you know, after either somebody who was either

1397
01:38:12,640 --> 01:38:16,840
somebody had been like deceased in action or somebody was imprisoned,

1398
01:38:17,600 --> 01:38:22,079
you know, like from their organization. You know, it had

1399
01:38:22,119 --> 01:38:26,800
its own culture that was kind of interesting because nobody

1400
01:38:26,840 --> 01:38:28,800
else did that. It was very much its own thing,

1401
01:38:30,119 --> 01:38:33,920
you know. And their symbol was the red star with

1402
01:38:34,039 --> 01:38:43,079
a with a heckler and and coke SMG, you know,

1403
01:38:43,119 --> 01:38:44,760
not like an not a class and a call, not

1404
01:38:44,760 --> 01:38:47,680
a hammer and sickle. You know, it was it's interesting,

1405
01:38:49,279 --> 01:38:59,199
but you know, and she said, second, you know, we

1406
01:38:59,199 --> 01:39:01,319
we we had we had he said, we free to prisoner,

1407
01:39:01,680 --> 01:39:05,840
you know, his identity being incidental because you know, the people,

1408
01:39:05,840 --> 01:39:08,479
we need to show people what politics is all about today,

1409
01:39:08,520 --> 01:39:13,920
and politics polop politics today is about smashing the ability

1410
01:39:13,920 --> 01:39:18,680
of the state too to impost course of measures. Okay.

1411
01:39:18,920 --> 01:39:21,399
And if that if that means killing policemen, you know,

1412
01:39:21,640 --> 01:39:23,880
extreme and durante, that might sound that people need to

1413
01:39:23,880 --> 01:39:26,199
get habituated to that, you know, and you can only

1414
01:39:26,239 --> 01:39:29,000
habituate people that by by by doing over and over

1415
01:39:29,000 --> 01:39:33,359
and over again. And he hope becomes normal. Okay. And

1416
01:39:33,439 --> 01:39:40,840
finally she said, if you can free somebody from state custody,

1417
01:39:41,279 --> 01:39:43,640
it's quite clear that you mean business and you're a

1418
01:39:43,720 --> 01:39:48,000
serious military actor. Okay, which, as ragnag as they were

1419
01:39:48,039 --> 01:39:51,039
at first, that is somewhat true. Springing a man out

1420
01:39:51,079 --> 01:39:55,800
of close custody is not a small thing, okay. And

1421
01:39:55,880 --> 01:40:00,520
again that might sound kind of basic, but it's really not.

1422
01:40:00,760 --> 01:40:05,279
It's it's sophisticated from what they were trying to do.

1423
01:40:05,359 --> 01:40:08,560
And again I believe it's all horse demoler. I'm sure

1424
01:40:08,560 --> 01:40:15,279
he had input from the others, but that's exactly kind

1425
01:40:15,319 --> 01:40:18,359
of the program he should have been pursuing, you know,

1426
01:40:18,479 --> 01:40:21,359
for what living about a rationality of what they were

1427
01:40:21,359 --> 01:40:27,119
trying to accomplish, you know, which was basically this credit

1428
01:40:27,199 --> 01:40:32,960
the Buddhist Republic and in so doing, you know, create revolutionary,

1429
01:40:33,239 --> 01:40:39,520
revolutionary conditions on the ground, whereby the extant structure, including

1430
01:40:39,520 --> 01:40:45,079
its ability to wage war as a key component of NATO,

1431
01:40:45,319 --> 01:40:48,399
is no longer possible, Okay, And when you consider it

1432
01:40:48,439 --> 01:40:52,680
in that context, I think my whole kind of hypothesis

1433
01:40:52,760 --> 01:40:58,600
of the matter becomes a little bit more persuasive. But

1434
01:40:58,680 --> 01:41:09,399
we're kind of getting ahead of ours. Who was Ulric

1435
01:41:09,880 --> 01:41:14,720
Manoff or Ulriki Minoff. She was older than the rest

1436
01:41:14,720 --> 01:41:16,760
of them. She was born in the thirties. She was

1437
01:41:16,760 --> 01:41:24,279
born in nineteen thirty four in Oldenburg. Her dad came

1438
01:41:24,279 --> 01:41:28,000
from a long line of Protestant theologians. And again something

1439
01:41:28,000 --> 01:41:31,640
you'll notice here, these kids, these people, these young people,

1440
01:41:32,720 --> 01:41:37,119
they were basically, without exception, all from the Protestant heartland

1441
01:41:37,239 --> 01:41:42,880
of Germany. The national socialst herland in Germany was the

1442
01:41:42,880 --> 01:41:48,640
Protestant Northeast, like it was not these guys like Goldhagen

1443
01:41:48,680 --> 01:41:53,199
who in the nineties were obsessed with claiming like you know,

1444
01:41:53,520 --> 01:41:56,720
VENSDP was some like Catholic organization or it was not

1445
01:41:56,880 --> 01:42:04,359
at all, and even that aside, like literally the national

1446
01:42:04,359 --> 01:42:13,319
soulci's heartland was rural and suburban Northeast Germany Protestant literally

1447
01:42:13,359 --> 01:42:28,159
Protestant pious Germany. Okay, and especially especially this first uh iteration.

1448
01:42:29,279 --> 01:42:32,319
You know this, this kind of deeply felt Protestant Pietism

1449
01:42:34,079 --> 01:42:36,680
was like an essential part of their upbring as well

1450
01:42:36,680 --> 01:42:42,119
as other strange things. Now. Riki Manoff also grew up

1451
01:42:42,119 --> 01:42:50,399
without a father. Basically, her father died when she was

1452
01:42:50,520 --> 01:42:57,760
very young of pancreatic cancer. Her dad had been curator

1453
01:42:58,399 --> 01:43:03,000
of the Yenna Museum, which was prestigious but not well paid.

1454
01:43:05,840 --> 01:43:14,159
So when he died, uh Olrik's mother and her and

1455
01:43:14,159 --> 01:43:19,800
her sister were in somewhat dire straits. You know, she

1456
01:43:20,000 --> 01:43:22,079
was at five and a half years old, you know,

1457
01:43:22,119 --> 01:43:25,079
she went over at a father in the picture her mother,

1458
01:43:25,640 --> 01:43:32,039
and it's not clear her mother took to having borders

1459
01:43:32,319 --> 01:43:36,239
live in the house, you know, to for money, and

1460
01:43:39,800 --> 01:43:47,000
this uh young woman from the university moved in named

1461
01:43:47,119 --> 01:43:54,680
uh we're not a remix and it's not people obvious

1462
01:43:54,680 --> 01:43:59,960
today which would would speculate or that uh Olriki's mother

1463
01:44:00,439 --> 01:44:02,840
and we're out a remake. You know, we're like lesbians.

1464
01:44:03,079 --> 01:44:05,640
I don't think it's necessarily like necessarily the case at all.

1465
01:44:06,239 --> 01:44:08,279
But they ended up like moving in together and like

1466
01:44:08,399 --> 01:44:15,079
raising the girls together, you know, so well Rique live

1467
01:44:15,119 --> 01:44:19,760
in this kind of heavily like Protestant household with no father,

1468
01:44:20,079 --> 01:44:24,479
you know, just like her male counterparts, you know, raised

1469
01:44:24,479 --> 01:44:29,560
by these two kind of somewhat you know, kind of

1470
01:44:29,560 --> 01:44:37,439
a kind of dour Protestant women. She she her primary

1471
01:44:37,479 --> 01:44:41,199
school was an all girls school run by like nuns.

1472
01:44:43,439 --> 01:44:44,880
So this is this is again, this is a totally

1473
01:44:44,880 --> 01:44:48,560
abnormal environment, you know, like in an environment to avoid

1474
01:44:48,600 --> 01:44:51,279
of kind of like normal male authority figures. You know,

1475
01:44:53,039 --> 01:45:05,960
that's that's not accidental. I don't think at uh b'nada

1476
01:45:06,039 --> 01:45:09,439
raimc After Olriki's mom died when she was a teenager,

1477
01:45:10,159 --> 01:45:13,359
kind of became her surrogate mom, and she she convinced

1478
01:45:13,359 --> 01:45:16,760
Elrici to joined the Social Democrats and at this time

1479
01:45:16,800 --> 01:45:21,079
Billy Brandt. Billy Brandt later became the mayor of West Berlin,

1480
01:45:21,199 --> 01:45:24,199
and West Berlin was really kind of like a culture

1481
01:45:24,199 --> 01:45:26,119
into itself in all kinds of ways.

1482
01:45:26,479 --> 01:45:26,680
Speaker 3: You know.

1483
01:45:26,720 --> 01:45:29,279
Speaker 2: It wasn't like the rest of the Bunus Republic. But

1484
01:45:29,399 --> 01:45:35,560
Billy Brandt, he a conciliatory posture with the East and

1485
01:45:35,600 --> 01:45:38,920
with the Soviet Union was as big a policy coup.

1486
01:45:40,039 --> 01:45:44,399
He became counselor, he went down in Flames. His constant

1487
01:45:44,399 --> 01:45:50,279
companion and personal assistant, Gunter Guillam, who's a Behrmach veteran

1488
01:45:50,479 --> 01:45:54,760
who became a Stazi agent deep cover agent. Gunter Guillam

1489
01:45:55,399 --> 01:46:04,399
stole the UH NATO nuclear codes from UH the secured

1490
01:46:04,439 --> 01:46:12,520
location in in UH and then the consular is private

1491
01:46:12,920 --> 01:46:21,359
safe And I mean this was the UH. It's it

1492
01:46:21,399 --> 01:46:24,239
was reporting, Like William Odoms said, like we we never

1493
01:46:24,239 --> 01:46:26,960
were like we meaning military and tell Us never recovered

1494
01:46:27,039 --> 01:46:29,960
from that intelligence breach. You know, they're like the Warsaw

1495
01:46:30,000 --> 01:46:33,199
Pack just had our number after that in terms of

1496
01:46:33,319 --> 01:46:37,560
UH you know, the uh O, our our ideas on

1497
01:46:37,640 --> 01:46:41,680
strategic escalation and everything else. You know. So but Billy

1498
01:46:41,760 --> 01:46:43,159
brand at this time was like it was like a

1499
01:46:43,239 --> 01:46:45,560
rising star, you know, and so we're not a remick

1500
01:46:45,680 --> 01:46:49,520
and and and young uh Riki mine Off you know,

1501
01:46:49,600 --> 01:46:53,399
joined the Social Democrats and you know, all all kind

1502
01:46:53,399 --> 01:46:55,520
of like progressive people at that time. You know they

1503
01:46:56,520 --> 01:46:59,239
they they opposed ad now or you know who who who?

1504
01:46:59,359 --> 01:47:02,600
Who do the Social Democrats was you know a fascist

1505
01:47:02,640 --> 01:47:15,520
aid whether than a fascistoid resurgence. You know, ULRIKEI became

1506
01:47:16,000 --> 01:47:20,000
insinuated into academ because they were not a remake who

1507
01:47:20,039 --> 01:47:23,479
was a professor at the Velber against a like educational institute. Okay,

1508
01:47:23,560 --> 01:47:31,760
and this was more so than America especially you know,

1509
01:47:31,840 --> 01:47:35,600
Germans kind of like invented the public education system. You

1510
01:47:35,760 --> 01:47:42,039
found a lot of radicals, especially female radicals who came

1511
01:47:42,079 --> 01:47:48,239
out of this academic culture, including a Honaker's wife. Okay.

1512
01:47:50,800 --> 01:47:55,119
That's why, like I said, I think very much. Had

1513
01:47:55,239 --> 01:48:01,039
uh Elrike mine Off not clicked up with Andrew's Botter,

1514
01:48:01,800 --> 01:48:05,640
she probablyould have been some like SPD organizer who you know,

1515
01:48:05,680 --> 01:48:08,359
like married some guy who was you know, some kind

1516
01:48:08,359 --> 01:48:11,720
of like milk toast, you know, social democrat. You know,

1517
01:48:11,800 --> 01:48:19,640
I uh I I really believe that, you know, but

1518
01:48:20,119 --> 01:48:24,640
she did have you know, it was her her her

1519
01:48:24,960 --> 01:48:30,079
it it was it was her kind of respectability that

1520
01:48:30,720 --> 01:48:33,159
allowed them to index with the media. You know. Again,

1521
01:48:33,239 --> 01:48:35,880
she was the one who identified, you know, Michelle Ray

1522
01:48:36,000 --> 01:48:39,199
as the journalist they should see out. You know this,

1523
01:48:39,199 --> 01:48:44,079
This was an essential part of their of the propaganda

1524
01:48:44,640 --> 01:48:55,199
aspect of the campaign. Now, who is Gudrian Ensulin. Gudrian

1525
01:48:55,319 --> 01:48:59,800
Enslin was Swabian. He grew up in a village called Bartholoma,

1526
01:49:00,600 --> 01:49:03,039
which was which was not and is not in the

1527
01:49:03,079 --> 01:49:05,119
prost and of Heartland. We talked about it a minute ago,

1528
01:49:05,319 --> 01:49:09,760
but her father was literally a Protestant minister. Okay. Her

1529
01:49:09,800 --> 01:49:14,920
folks uh had been big in the vander Vogel movement

1530
01:49:15,760 --> 01:49:17,720
when and like then, you know that the pre national

1531
01:49:17,760 --> 01:49:22,800
Socialist days and a little bit beyond this. This was

1532
01:49:22,840 --> 01:49:25,359
kind of like a naturalist movement, you know, vonder Vogel

1533
01:49:25,479 --> 01:49:30,920
means like migrating birds. It was very it was very

1534
01:49:31,000 --> 01:49:39,239
part of like the focused culture. Okay. In nineteen fifty eight,

1535
01:49:39,880 --> 01:49:44,479
Gudran visited the USA, where she learned to speak English.

1536
01:49:44,760 --> 01:49:46,920
She was an exchange student for a year. She stayed

1537
01:49:46,960 --> 01:49:50,239
in Pennsylvania with this Methodist community and she liked the

1538
01:49:50,279 --> 01:49:54,960
Americans and they liked her. But she reported back to

1539
01:49:55,039 --> 01:49:59,239
her friends and like her, you know, her Swabian village

1540
01:49:59,640 --> 01:50:02,239
and her parents that like, well, you know, the the

1541
01:50:02,239 --> 01:50:07,079
Americans aren't pious enough, you know, they they they're there,

1542
01:50:07,159 --> 01:50:10,000
there's something superficial about you know, like the way the

1543
01:50:10,000 --> 01:50:16,000
way they're practicing protonism Inowers America. You know, she had

1544
01:50:16,000 --> 01:50:20,319
that kind of like radical pious perspective, you know that

1545
01:50:20,479 --> 01:50:32,199
I think indexed with national socialism in a basic way.

1546
01:50:33,000 --> 01:50:39,600
When she came back, she started studying English language and

1547
01:50:39,680 --> 01:50:47,239
uh German educational theory. But she quickly but she quickly

1548
01:50:47,439 --> 01:50:52,960
Uh well, it's interested in that when she met the

1549
01:50:53,000 --> 01:50:58,520
sun of uh the gil Vesper. Bill Vesper was a

1550
01:50:58,560 --> 01:51:04,159
focused poet and a kid national socialist, okay, and his

1551
01:51:04,359 --> 01:51:08,920
son was very much in that vein, you know, and

1552
01:51:08,960 --> 01:51:11,760
he was this kind of like passionate wild guy was

1553
01:51:11,800 --> 01:51:16,960
like a poet himself, and he traveled to Spain a

1554
01:51:16,960 --> 01:51:20,520
lot because in those days, obviously Spain was friendly to

1555
01:51:20,640 --> 01:51:28,399
people like him and his father. Okay. Gudrian's parents were

1556
01:51:28,479 --> 01:51:30,880
upset by the kind of passion they saw with this

1557
01:51:30,960 --> 01:51:34,079
kind of like wild guy, and her father was trying

1558
01:51:34,079 --> 01:51:35,520
to throw him out of the house when he'd catch

1559
01:51:35,600 --> 01:51:41,399
him there. They were mollified when the couple uh got married.

1560
01:51:42,319 --> 01:51:54,319
But you know it uh again this uh this uh Burnwall,

1561
01:51:54,399 --> 01:51:58,479
the Vestper was the son of Villa. Apparently the father

1562
01:51:58,560 --> 01:52:03,520
and the son. There was there was huge tension between them,

1563
01:52:04,840 --> 01:52:10,840
beyond the kind of ordinary you know, difficult between fathers

1564
01:52:10,840 --> 01:52:19,000
and sons. But nevertheless, again you know, he was still

1565
01:52:19,079 --> 01:52:23,920
marinated in that blood and Soil ethos and he was

1566
01:52:23,960 --> 01:52:26,760
making regular pilgrimage to Spain. You know, this is the

1567
01:52:27,079 --> 01:52:30,279
first trip he took around was to Spain. And I mean,

1568
01:52:30,319 --> 01:52:36,079
even if, even if in a critical capacity, you know,

1569
01:52:36,439 --> 01:52:43,560
the son Burnvard was uh it was kind of like rejecting,

1570
01:52:45,119 --> 01:52:49,640
you know, like the faith of the father. I mean,

1571
01:52:49,640 --> 01:52:52,880
you can't, you can't truly like escape like your your

1572
01:52:53,079 --> 01:52:56,279
heritage theologically or politically. Okay, so this is the other

1573
01:52:56,319 --> 01:53:00,319
one's first love, which was this incredibly passionate affair, was

1574
01:53:00,399 --> 01:53:03,159
with the son of a national socialist poet who himself

1575
01:53:03,199 --> 01:53:05,520
wrote like Blood and Soil Poets, where he took her

1576
01:53:05,520 --> 01:53:11,199
to Franco Spain. You know, I mean, I I can't

1577
01:53:11,199 --> 01:53:15,880
believe that Gudrian Elson simply like shed all sensibilities of that,

1578
01:53:16,960 --> 01:53:19,920
you know, and and and then spent their maide of

1579
01:53:19,920 --> 01:53:22,319
her life, you know, like staying up late reading Communist

1580
01:53:22,319 --> 01:53:29,520
Manifesto with her new comrades, you know, hers capital. But

1581
01:53:29,720 --> 01:53:38,039
that and like I said, she by the time she'd uh,

1582
01:53:38,439 --> 01:53:43,800
by the time she connected up with who wrote army fraction, comrade,

1583
01:53:43,880 --> 01:53:48,279
she'd become kind of a she she was kind of

1584
01:53:48,359 --> 01:53:55,600
drifting in life. But that that was basically the core

1585
01:53:57,000 --> 01:54:06,319
of the first iteration of the Roue army fraction. And

1586
01:54:06,439 --> 01:54:14,000
for context, you know, to distinguished to kind of like

1587
01:54:14,039 --> 01:54:17,399
the German youth movement from you know, kind of the

1588
01:54:17,399 --> 01:54:21,119
American SDS movement its liberty nature. You know, Germany was

1589
01:54:21,119 --> 01:54:26,399
not a free society at our successor as consular was

1590
01:54:26,479 --> 01:54:37,720
Ludwig Erhard. Ludwig Erhard. He basically banned the public They're

1591
01:54:37,760 --> 01:54:40,439
like the like the playing of music publicly unless it

1592
01:54:40,479 --> 01:54:43,760
was like an official sanctioned performance. Like the reasoning being,

1593
01:54:44,279 --> 01:54:46,279
you know, stuff that stirs the passion in is whether

1594
01:54:46,279 --> 01:54:50,560
it's art or music or any any kind of evocative

1595
01:54:50,560 --> 01:54:54,520
things that can easily be transposed into in the nationalist sentiments.

1596
01:54:54,560 --> 01:54:59,720
And this will be a return to Weimar. So kids, uh,

1597
01:55:00,039 --> 01:55:04,039
who'd convene for spontaneous music festivals or even guys just

1598
01:55:04,119 --> 01:55:07,720
plugging into an amp and you know, while wanting to

1599
01:55:07,720 --> 01:55:11,600
play uh that kind of spontaneous set in their college courtyard.

1600
01:55:11,800 --> 01:55:14,439
They'd literally be broken up by the police, you know,

1601
01:55:14,720 --> 01:55:21,600
and told to cease and desist. In the summer sixty two,

1602
01:55:23,479 --> 01:55:26,720
this this, this became a storically known as as the

1603
01:55:26,720 --> 01:55:30,199
Schabing riots, okay, and then referring to the Schabing District

1604
01:55:31,000 --> 01:55:34,800
where most of these you know, disturbing the peace incidents

1605
01:55:34,800 --> 01:55:39,399
were you know, kind of most enforcing the most kind

1606
01:55:39,399 --> 01:55:43,720
of heavy handed way to ethinkly speaking, you know, So

1607
01:55:43,760 --> 01:55:47,039
it's not I want to disabuse people this idea again

1608
01:55:47,119 --> 01:55:50,119
that these these were like sds hippie kids were kind

1609
01:55:50,119 --> 01:55:52,159
of with the same couch from the Saint Cloth as

1610
01:55:52,199 --> 01:55:56,319
like non draft dodgers or like you know, fools following

1611
01:55:56,319 --> 01:55:59,199
Abbie Hoffman and having like a chip on their shoulder

1612
01:55:59,239 --> 01:56:02,800
about ship. Like it wasn't like that. You know, I

1613
01:56:02,880 --> 01:56:07,960
probably got more. I probably got somebody for the double

1614
01:56:08,199 --> 01:56:11,920
in a way that many people don't. But I think

1615
01:56:11,960 --> 01:56:16,760
this is important not because of my own feelings on

1616
01:56:16,800 --> 01:56:21,039
the matter or private passions, but I mean because the

1617
01:56:21,079 --> 01:56:26,680
historical record in this regard is not it's not it's

1618
01:56:26,760 --> 01:56:31,640
not correct. I don't uh, I don't mean to be

1619
01:56:31,680 --> 01:56:33,640
a propt, but I gotta I'm in a lot of

1620
01:56:33,640 --> 01:56:36,960
pain right now. If we could pick this up, if

1621
01:56:37,000 --> 01:56:40,439
we could pick this up with a final episode, I

1622
01:56:40,439 --> 01:56:42,239
can go for ninety minutes or so and wrap it up.

1623
01:56:42,279 --> 01:56:44,199
Speaker 3: Sure, sure is that okay?

1624
01:56:44,279 --> 01:56:44,479
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1625
01:56:44,520 --> 01:56:48,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, knock out a couple of plugs and we'll

1626
01:56:48,000 --> 01:56:48,520
get out here.

1627
01:56:49,720 --> 01:56:56,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. Man. I'm uh. I'm busially updating my

1628
01:56:56,199 --> 01:57:01,239
sub stack and we're well into season two of the pod.

1629
01:57:01,720 --> 01:57:06,359
You can find both at Real Thomas seven seven seven

1630
01:57:08,600 --> 01:57:11,199
number seven hm A S seven seven seven dot substec

1631
01:57:11,279 --> 01:57:20,640
dot com. I'm on uh Instagram, I'm on UH, I'm

1632
01:57:20,640 --> 01:57:24,960
on t Gram. I remain on Twitter. There's still some

1633
01:57:25,000 --> 01:57:27,880
productive discussion there, I believe, or I wouldn't still be there,

1634
01:57:28,039 --> 01:57:37,319
and a way to poach new contacts. I'm at UH

1635
01:57:37,600 --> 01:57:44,079
Capital r E A L Underscore number seven h O

1636
01:57:44,199 --> 01:57:47,960
A S seven seven seven. It's the Real.

1637
01:57:47,840 --> 01:57:55,640
Speaker 5: Thomas and yeah, I'm uh. I'm busily uh trying to

1638
01:57:55,640 --> 01:58:01,880
get this manuscript banged out by uh by fall. And

1639
01:58:02,159 --> 01:58:04,600
that's where Yeah, and again, forgive me if I entered

1640
01:58:04,640 --> 01:58:07,840
this abruptly the problem, that's okay.

1641
01:58:07,800 --> 01:58:10,439
Speaker 1: And head over to my website where I have a

1642
01:58:10,640 --> 01:58:14,439
page that's dedicated just to Thomas and my movie reviews

1643
01:58:15,119 --> 01:58:18,319
and links to all of it. And we'll probably have

1644
01:58:18,359 --> 01:58:19,840
to talk about setting up the next one.

1645
01:58:20,439 --> 01:58:25,000
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, man, Yeah, Mystery Science Theater. Yeah, I've

1646
01:58:25,000 --> 01:58:27,039
been very much enjoying it, man, and we've been we've

1647
01:58:27,039 --> 01:58:29,399
been getting a lot of like really great feedback from people.

1648
01:58:29,439 --> 01:58:30,359
It makes me feel good.

1649
01:58:30,560 --> 01:58:32,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, Thomas, thank you.

1650
01:58:33,720 --> 01:58:39,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, I want to welcome everyone back to the

1651
01:58:39,199 --> 01:58:43,880
Pete Cononas show. Thomas is here and uh going to

1652
01:58:43,920 --> 01:58:46,039
wrap up the Rhode Army fraction.

1653
01:58:46,479 --> 01:58:49,000
Speaker 2: Huh yeah, that's what I was thinking.

1654
01:58:50,520 --> 01:58:52,680
Speaker 3: All right, well, uh where are we going with this?

1655
01:58:54,720 --> 01:58:56,039
Speaker 2: I mean, I wanted to drop a little bit of

1656
01:58:56,039 --> 01:58:58,600
bio graphical information about horse tomal Or because I think

1657
01:58:58,600 --> 01:59:03,039
he's kind of the key under standing not just kind

1658
01:59:03,039 --> 01:59:06,399
of like the post war ideological culture and divided Germany,

1659
01:59:07,520 --> 01:59:09,560
but it's sort of the key to understanding the German

1660
01:59:09,680 --> 01:59:15,920
right as it exists today. And I I'm very I

1661
01:59:16,079 --> 01:59:19,359
I support Alternative for deutsch Land entirely. I think they're

1662
01:59:19,359 --> 01:59:22,000
doing great things. I'm not like putting shade on them,

1663
01:59:22,479 --> 01:59:25,000
but the fact is if they continue to gain ground,

1664
01:59:25,039 --> 01:59:27,199
they're just gonna they're just gonna be banned. Okay, Like

1665
01:59:27,239 --> 01:59:30,439
any any truly like right wing tendency in the Buddhist

1666
01:59:30,479 --> 01:59:36,239
Republic just just gets unceremoniously danned. Okay, So considering that

1667
01:59:37,760 --> 01:59:42,359
there was there, there's a radicalism just kind of intrinsic

1668
01:59:42,439 --> 01:59:48,760
to any any kind of like right wing tendancy. You know,

1669
01:59:48,840 --> 01:59:51,479
during the Cold War as well as today. But during

1670
01:59:51,520 --> 01:59:54,399
the Cold War, you know, whether you were on the

1671
01:59:54,479 --> 01:59:56,159
right of the left, there was there was there were

1672
01:59:56,199 --> 01:59:58,880
situations in places like Italy, into a lesser degree in

1673
01:59:58,920 --> 02:00:04,000
France where the true like hard right was tolerated some

1674
02:00:04,119 --> 02:00:10,000
that owed uh Operation Gladio type intrigues, which is a

1675
02:00:10,039 --> 02:00:12,560
whole like other topic that you know, we could devote

1676
02:00:12,560 --> 02:00:15,079
three episodes to. Part of that go to the fact

1677
02:00:15,079 --> 02:00:20,640
that some of these EU states what became EU states,

1678
02:00:20,680 --> 02:00:22,359
what I mean then it was just you know, the

1679
02:00:22,359 --> 02:00:25,479
the e C and adjacent countries. You know, they had

1680
02:00:25,479 --> 02:00:27,520
to trend somewhat lightly like you didn't want to come

1681
02:00:27,520 --> 02:00:32,079
down too hard on anti communist elements, you know, lets

1682
02:00:32,159 --> 02:00:41,239
you lest you kind of offer the appearance of ingress

1683
02:00:41,279 --> 02:00:46,640
of uh of enemy dialectics into into into the political

1684
02:00:46,680 --> 02:00:52,319
discussion West Germany was it was in a strange position,

1685
02:00:52,920 --> 02:00:54,840
you know, like we talked in the first episode. I

1686
02:00:54,880 --> 02:01:07,399
think about why Andres Botterer especially, but uh Elriki Mainhoff

1687
02:01:07,600 --> 02:01:12,079
and some of the other kind of core personalities of

1688
02:01:12,159 --> 02:01:17,000
the first uh Rote Army fraction were so fixated on Vietnam.

1689
02:01:17,199 --> 02:01:21,399
Like It's not just because this was the this was

1690
02:01:21,439 --> 02:01:24,239
the television era when you know, for the first time

1691
02:01:25,319 --> 02:01:28,000
this civilized world was was truly kind of plugged into

1692
02:01:28,319 --> 02:01:33,560
like a common visual experience. But the Bunis Republic it

1693
02:01:33,640 --> 02:01:37,720
really was this like occupied, you know, client state of

1694
02:01:37,800 --> 02:01:41,239
America in a way that no other country was, like

1695
02:01:41,279 --> 02:01:44,079
not even Japan was owing to the kind of the

1696
02:01:44,079 --> 02:01:49,319
the cultural barriers there. So you know, and when you

1697
02:01:49,359 --> 02:01:52,720
consider too that the Bondis Republic was literally like the

1698
02:01:52,760 --> 02:01:56,399
front line of the Cold War and it was clear

1699
02:01:56,520 --> 02:02:03,680
that they were basically going to storb the the brunt

1700
02:02:03,760 --> 02:02:08,199
of Warsaw Pact assault, including nuclear weapons, you know, if

1701
02:02:08,359 --> 02:02:10,880
when war came, and in those days, it seemed very

1702
02:02:10,920 --> 02:02:13,680
probable that war would arrive. Like this is why I think,

1703
02:02:13,760 --> 02:02:16,319
this is why, like Vietnam was so much on their mind. Okay,

1704
02:02:16,399 --> 02:02:20,039
like they weren't They weren't just being like virtual signaling

1705
02:02:21,000 --> 02:02:23,520
fools or something, or they weren't just trying to score

1706
02:02:23,600 --> 02:02:30,039
points with you know, kind of the the international peace movement, Like,

1707
02:02:30,079 --> 02:02:32,159
they weren't done that tip at all, Like especially the

1708
02:02:32,520 --> 02:02:37,279
Rotimi fraction types, they had almost like Sourellian sort of

1709
02:02:38,399 --> 02:02:45,439
enthusiasm for violence. Okay, So that's important to understand. And secondly,

1710
02:02:46,880 --> 02:02:49,800
you know, I I'm not saying this to repeat myself

1711
02:02:50,399 --> 02:02:55,840
for its own sake, but the degree to which any

1712
02:02:55,960 --> 02:03:01,439
sort of radical or revolutionary or dynamic tendency, especially you know,

1713
02:03:01,640 --> 02:03:07,039
in among young people under youth cultures, you know, things

1714
02:03:07,119 --> 02:03:11,239
like that, tendencies like that, they're always kind of confined

1715
02:03:12,399 --> 02:03:16,680
to the zeitgeist, okay, and the security age. All right,

1716
02:03:17,399 --> 02:03:20,239
So it wasn't just that, it wasn't it wasn't even

1717
02:03:20,239 --> 02:03:24,159
that people, you know, I mean academic types would think

1718
02:03:24,199 --> 02:03:26,680
this way. But it's not like it's not like guys

1719
02:03:26,720 --> 02:03:31,600
and girls like prone to prone to radical direct action.

1720
02:03:31,680 --> 02:03:33,239
And it's not even like they were thinking like, oh,

1721
02:03:33,319 --> 02:03:37,279
you know, national socialism and fascism was a disaster and

1722
02:03:37,319 --> 02:03:41,039
it's evil, so we we we've got some moral obligation

1723
02:03:41,239 --> 02:03:43,439
to kind of take up the red banner. Yeah, there

1724
02:03:43,439 --> 02:03:46,520
were some people who thought that way, but by and large,

1725
02:03:46,960 --> 02:03:51,920
the only really conceivable modality of revolt or revolutionary activity

1726
02:03:53,039 --> 02:03:58,359
was either you know, Marxist Leninist or adjacent to that,

1727
02:03:59,119 --> 02:04:03,840
you know, like the degree to which uh uh, you know,

1728
02:04:03,960 --> 02:04:09,720
an above board if you know, very much outside the law,

1729
02:04:11,119 --> 02:04:15,439
you know, gorilla tendency, Like it wasn't really conceivable for

1730
02:04:16,239 --> 02:04:19,600
such a tendency on the right to emerge. Okay, it

1731
02:04:19,760 --> 02:04:22,199
just wasn't, you know. I can't emphasize that enough. You know,

1732
02:04:23,159 --> 02:04:26,560
I realize, I'm I realize I'm very much a Hegelian

1733
02:04:26,640 --> 02:04:30,960
and and and some people disagree with that, but I

1734
02:04:31,159 --> 02:04:33,479
but you know, examples of this phenomenon legion, you know,

1735
02:04:33,560 --> 02:04:36,239
not just in the Budus Republic of the Cold War,

1736
02:04:36,840 --> 02:04:43,399
but obviously that's kind of the most striking and pure

1737
02:04:43,560 --> 02:04:45,880
like example of that. And I come back to the

1738
02:04:45,920 --> 02:04:48,000
persons of course Tomler again and again, not just I

1739
02:04:48,079 --> 02:04:51,199
think he's an interesting guy, but he's kind of like

1740
02:04:51,239 --> 02:05:02,399
the distilled essence of that tendency. It's the Malay's background.

1741
02:05:02,399 --> 02:05:06,000
He was older than his comrades, you know, he was

1742
02:05:06,039 --> 02:05:14,119
born in nineteen thirty six in Celesia. His father had

1743
02:05:14,119 --> 02:05:21,119
been a dentist and it dedicated national socialist. He attended

1744
02:05:21,279 --> 02:05:24,279
the Free University of Berlin and then he immediately joined

1745
02:05:24,279 --> 02:05:28,119
at Thuringy Association, which was an old school right wing

1746
02:05:29,000 --> 02:05:31,159
like student fraternity. You know, this is the kind of

1747
02:05:31,159 --> 02:05:35,279
fraternity that guys like Colin Runner joined, Okay, you know.

1748
02:05:37,159 --> 02:05:44,840
But then immediately after, amazingly after graduation, he you know,

1749
02:05:45,000 --> 02:05:48,479
in his grad student immediately after taking as you know,

1750
02:05:48,880 --> 02:05:51,880
with the equillment of his undergrad degree, he joined the

1751
02:05:51,920 --> 02:05:55,600
member he joined the socialist student body, you know, and

1752
02:05:55,640 --> 02:05:59,720
he started participating in these protests against you know, nuclear

1753
02:05:59,760 --> 02:06:04,840
weapons being based in the Bunis Republic. You know. Now

1754
02:06:04,880 --> 02:06:06,720
this led to some people that say, like, oh he

1755
02:06:06,840 --> 02:06:09,000
was he was some sort of intelligent spook. I don't

1756
02:06:09,000 --> 02:06:10,760
think that's the case at all, and there's not really

1757
02:06:10,760 --> 02:06:14,159
any evidence of that. Like what Mahler was doing was

1758
02:06:14,600 --> 02:06:16,479
you know, like I said, it's my belief the guy

1759
02:06:16,640 --> 02:06:19,600
was always a national socialist. He was looking at like

1760
02:06:19,680 --> 02:06:23,359
what's possible you know, within the political culture that he

1761
02:06:23,479 --> 02:06:32,119
was situated, okay, and everybody everybody in the on the

1762
02:06:32,199 --> 02:06:38,159
real right wing in the Buddhist Republic, you know, whether

1763
02:06:38,159 --> 02:06:42,640
you're talking about Otto Reimer, or whether you're talking about

1764
02:06:42,640 --> 02:06:46,159
Hans Rudel, you know, or any of these or any

1765
02:06:46,199 --> 02:06:49,840
of these guys who constituted the early you know, like

1766
02:06:49,920 --> 02:06:53,439
Socialist Rights Party, Socialist Rights Party which became like the

1767
02:06:53,560 --> 02:06:57,600
NPD later, Like these guys all favored like a demilitarized

1768
02:06:57,640 --> 02:07:01,560
Germany for obvious reasons. Gay you know, not just because

1769
02:07:02,560 --> 02:07:06,800
that would spare Germany from destruction an event of of

1770
02:07:06,800 --> 02:07:10,119
of of war but of war between the United States

1771
02:07:10,680 --> 02:07:14,920
and and Warsaw Pact, but also it would liberate the

1772
02:07:14,960 --> 02:07:21,000
political culture from from from the from these confining parameters,

1773
02:07:21,800 --> 02:07:25,640
you know. And as I'm sure people know, you know, Stalin,

1774
02:07:26,720 --> 02:07:32,199
the famous Stalin Memo, which you know, the American State

1775
02:07:32,279 --> 02:07:38,000
Department wouldn't even entertain. You know, Stalin proposed a totally

1776
02:07:38,039 --> 02:07:44,359
demilitarized Germany, you know that, and and and a constitution

1777
02:07:45,600 --> 02:07:51,319
that that guaranteed you know, absolute neutrality. But of course

1778
02:07:51,680 --> 02:07:56,119
that would have allowed, if not facilitated, you know, complex

1779
02:07:56,119 --> 02:08:02,600
and independence with the Soviet Union, you know. And and

1780
02:08:02,640 --> 02:08:06,920
the position has always been of the American regime that

1781
02:08:06,920 --> 02:08:09,000
that's got to be prevented at all costs. I mean,

1782
02:08:09,039 --> 02:08:11,760
look at that that's what under that's that's in a

1783
02:08:11,840 --> 02:08:14,840
large part of what underlies like this this war against

1784
02:08:14,920 --> 02:08:17,079
Russia with Ukraine as a proxy. I mean, look at

1785
02:08:17,119 --> 02:08:21,920
look at the terrorist attack on a European energy infrastructure

1786
02:08:21,960 --> 02:08:24,960
and you know, the destruction of the North Stream pipeline. Okay,

1787
02:08:25,000 --> 02:08:28,199
So I don't think. I think if one understands kind

1788
02:08:28,199 --> 02:08:34,439
of the variables and the ideological tendencies that you know,

1789
02:08:34,640 --> 02:08:39,640
underlie what one's priorities are a fairy a you know,

1790
02:08:39,680 --> 02:08:42,840
either a national socialist or or any kind of right

1791
02:08:42,840 --> 02:08:45,640
wing partisan in the Buddhist republic, that is now, I

1792
02:08:45,640 --> 02:08:54,079
don't think Mahler's trajectory is that conspiratorial. In nineteen sixty three,

1793
02:08:54,359 --> 02:08:58,560
Mahler h he took his law degree. He set up

1794
02:08:58,560 --> 02:09:03,840
a legal practice in Berlin, and is uh his specialty

1795
02:09:03,960 --> 02:09:09,479
was basically, uh, industrial and labor law, you know, and

1796
02:09:09,560 --> 02:09:12,119
he was he was very successful with that. Okay, it's

1797
02:09:14,560 --> 02:09:20,520
and he he he continued to immerse himself and kind

1798
02:09:20,560 --> 02:09:24,159
of student radicalism obviously because he was older. Now I'm

1799
02:09:24,199 --> 02:09:26,640
a professional man. Like it's sort of like a sponsorship

1800
02:09:26,680 --> 02:09:29,520
and mentoring capacity, you know, Like he see he began

1801
02:09:29,600 --> 02:09:31,800
providing like legal advice to a lot of these people,

1802
02:09:34,119 --> 02:09:36,159
you know, providing them funding that a lot of them

1803
02:09:36,199 --> 02:09:39,840
desperately needed, because you know, these these kinds are n

1804
02:09:39,880 --> 02:09:42,520
g os. I mean not just student organizations, but any

1805
02:09:42,560 --> 02:09:45,079
any kind of ng os, particularly in those days that

1806
02:09:45,159 --> 02:09:50,840
weren't adjacent the bond regime er you know, always like

1807
02:09:50,920 --> 02:09:56,000
start of cash and and things of this sort. I

1808
02:09:56,039 --> 02:09:59,000
mean that was uh, you know that that's that this

1809
02:09:59,199 --> 02:10:05,359
was a consistent activity that he was, that he was Immerston.

1810
02:10:06,039 --> 02:10:07,760
And when we last left off, and then we were

1811
02:10:07,840 --> 02:10:13,199
talking about how the core of uh the of them,

1812
02:10:13,640 --> 02:10:17,479
the Rode Army fraction, you know, they ended up after

1813
02:10:18,520 --> 02:10:24,439
after au Andreas Botter was sprung from jail, you know, uh,

1814
02:10:24,920 --> 02:10:28,199
they they ended up. They ended up traveling to the

1815
02:10:28,239 --> 02:10:32,960
Middle East, you know, through by way in East Berlin,

1816
02:10:33,399 --> 02:10:37,000
and you know, owing to their contact on the ground,

1817
02:10:37,359 --> 02:10:39,920
said who'd been a who was the son of a

1818
02:10:41,000 --> 02:10:45,760
of a political science professor of some of some prestige,

1819
02:10:46,439 --> 02:10:48,079
you know, like I said, like it's never been clear

1820
02:10:48,119 --> 02:10:50,439
exact kind of like what Sayid's like a resume is,

1821
02:10:50,520 --> 02:10:53,760
but he's been harassed by security forces for decades. I

1822
02:10:53,760 --> 02:10:58,279
believe he's still alive. But I believe that horse tom

1823
02:10:58,279 --> 02:11:03,800
all are like facilitated these these sort of contexts, okay,

1824
02:11:05,000 --> 02:11:11,079
and in those days, in those days, FATA was the

1825
02:11:11,199 --> 02:11:15,960
dominant element of the PLO. It's an imperfect analogy, but

1826
02:11:16,039 --> 02:11:21,399
the PLO is a well I mean this. They they

1827
02:11:21,399 --> 02:11:23,960
thought a war with each other about a decade ago,

1828
02:11:24,680 --> 02:11:30,760
but it was always a tense alliance between Hamas and Fata,

1829
02:11:31,199 --> 02:11:36,039
and Fata traditionally was was a secularist, you know, Marxist

1830
02:11:36,079 --> 02:11:43,680
Leninist adjacent non state actor. An imperfect analogy would be

1831
02:11:44,119 --> 02:11:47,680
what became combined loyalists and military command in Northern Ireland

1832
02:11:47,800 --> 02:11:53,560
between the UVF and the uda UFF. Okay, but in

1833
02:11:53,560 --> 02:11:56,520
those days, you know, fata I was definitely like the

1834
02:11:56,600 --> 02:12:05,159
dominant element, and their competitor was the Popular Front for

1835
02:12:05,239 --> 02:12:11,079
Liberation of Palestine, which had been founded by a Greek

1836
02:12:11,159 --> 02:12:18,000
Orthodox Christian. The PFLP enjoyed a lot of support from

1837
02:12:18,039 --> 02:12:27,720
the East Bloc and they're tactical and strategic orientation. We're

1838
02:12:27,760 --> 02:12:30,960
both very much oriented towards a global kind of a

1839
02:12:31,479 --> 02:12:35,399
military politique. What I mean by that is they were

1840
02:12:35,560 --> 02:12:39,640
very very active in Africa, they were very very active

1841
02:12:40,840 --> 02:12:44,399
in Europe. You know, they were very very active in

1842
02:12:44,399 --> 02:12:50,600
Indonesia for a time, you know, they're they they said that,

1843
02:12:50,720 --> 02:12:53,319
you know, we've got a we've got to treat this

1844
02:12:53,359 --> 02:12:56,159
as an international struggle, you know. Yeah, so the liberation

1845
02:12:56,239 --> 02:13:00,600
of Palestine, obviously first and foremost is you know, it's

1846
02:13:00,640 --> 02:13:04,359
got to be our the kind of share punk of

1847
02:13:04,399 --> 02:13:10,119
our of our of our military activity. But this has

1848
02:13:10,159 --> 02:13:17,039
to be international in character, you know. And uh, for

1849
02:13:17,079 --> 02:13:19,920
those who remember or those who are students of Cold

1850
02:13:19,920 --> 02:13:24,359
War history, the bombing of the Discotheque in West Berlin

1851
02:13:24,560 --> 02:13:29,520
that you know, uh killed three American soldiers and wounded

1852
02:13:30,560 --> 02:13:33,800
a few dozen people. You know, the label Discothech which

1853
02:13:33,840 --> 02:13:37,039
was a which was a known hangout for US occupation,

1854
02:13:37,159 --> 02:13:39,439
for USS it was the popular front for the liberation

1855
02:13:39,560 --> 02:13:42,880
at Palestine. General command that pulled that off, you know,

1856
02:13:43,000 --> 02:13:47,199
very much handing the glove with the Stazi. Okay. But

1857
02:13:47,199 --> 02:13:51,560
but fata Plo, you know, they felt they felt like

1858
02:13:51,640 --> 02:13:54,119
they had something to prove in this regard. Okay, they

1859
02:13:54,119 --> 02:13:58,159
felt comparatively like very provincial. You know, they felt like

1860
02:13:58,239 --> 02:14:01,880
they were kind of like losing the uh, the propaganda

1861
02:14:01,960 --> 02:14:05,279
battle and in the court of world opinion. Okay, So

1862
02:14:05,399 --> 02:14:08,119
the guy like I'm speculating here, but I think the

1863
02:14:08,199 --> 02:14:12,439
facts of one kind of reads me the lines the

1864
02:14:12,520 --> 02:14:16,000
man like horse Tomaler, you know who by this time again,

1865
02:14:16,039 --> 02:14:18,560
he wasn't the kid. He was in his thirties, you

1866
02:14:18,600 --> 02:14:20,039
know he was. He was a He was a well

1867
02:14:20,079 --> 02:14:24,079
off attorney, you know, with a with a law practice

1868
02:14:24,119 --> 02:14:28,079
in Berlin. I believe he spoke a few languages, you know,

1869
02:14:28,199 --> 02:14:31,680
him approaching Fata and saying, you know, I have these

1870
02:14:31,680 --> 02:14:34,640
like young people and they very much committed to the revolution,

1871
02:14:34,840 --> 02:14:38,239
and you know they they you know, they they they

1872
02:14:38,279 --> 02:14:42,840
want to learn basically, uh, they basically want to learn

1873
02:14:42,960 --> 02:14:45,159
like real warfare from you. I think that would have

1874
02:14:45,159 --> 02:14:51,880
been like very appealing to them. You know. Now this

1875
02:14:52,000 --> 02:14:54,800
first the first iteration of the road attorney Fraction, like

1876
02:14:54,840 --> 02:14:59,640
as we've talked about, it had many problems. Botter himself,

1877
02:15:00,239 --> 02:15:03,000
Andrea's Bodder I think was something of a crazy person.

1878
02:15:03,119 --> 02:15:08,720
He was a he was a thrill seeker. He was

1879
02:15:08,760 --> 02:15:14,840
probably a psychopath, you know. Gundrd Enslin I think was

1880
02:15:14,880 --> 02:15:19,680
actually very committed. And you know, men and women are different,

1881
02:15:19,720 --> 02:15:23,079
like we've talked about, but female revolutionaries are important. They

1882
02:15:23,119 --> 02:15:27,000
serve an important role and people shouldn't be down on

1883
02:15:27,039 --> 02:15:30,439
them because many of them are very very very committed. Okay,

1884
02:15:30,560 --> 02:15:34,800
like it's not like women aren't weaker than men, like uh,

1885
02:15:35,079 --> 02:15:38,720
I mean physically obviously there's you know, a disparity there.

1886
02:15:38,760 --> 02:15:42,520
But I think Gundrian Enslin, especially going to a kind

1887
02:15:42,520 --> 02:15:48,039
of pied his background was uh was was was probably

1888
02:15:48,640 --> 02:15:55,000
kind of like the most stable of that Coterie el

1889
02:15:55,079 --> 02:16:01,479
Riqui mine off was kind of a it was kind

1890
02:16:01,520 --> 02:16:05,680
of a cliche, you know, like a middle class lady

1891
02:16:05,760 --> 02:16:11,399
who you know, kind of was easily misled. I believe

1892
02:16:12,479 --> 02:16:15,439
you know, this was not the best mentioned material around

1893
02:16:15,520 --> 02:16:20,199
which to build a revolutionary codery. And later that changed.

1894
02:16:20,319 --> 02:16:24,600
Later iterations of the Root Army Fraction I were incredibly

1895
02:16:24,600 --> 02:16:28,199
effective and like as we talked about as we'll talk

1896
02:16:28,199 --> 02:16:32,200
about some more I by that by the nineteen eighties,

1897
02:16:33,760 --> 02:16:37,799
the third iteration of the RIF had become very much

1898
02:16:38,680 --> 02:16:41,719
like a like an implement of the Stazi. Okay, you

1899
02:16:41,760 --> 02:16:43,600
know they were the kind of ops they were pulling

1900
02:16:43,600 --> 02:16:47,360
off then, was they were trying to murder Alexander Haig

1901
02:16:47,680 --> 02:16:51,120
and things like this. Okay, like this're you're talking about

1902
02:16:51,120 --> 02:16:56,319
an entire lady caliber of people and an entirely an

1903
02:16:56,440 --> 02:17:03,399
entirely more ambitious operational sense of building of the But

1904
02:17:03,440 --> 02:17:11,959
when the road Timmy fraction arrived in Jordan's horse Tomler

1905
02:17:12,079 --> 02:17:20,799
was already there and their their hosts, uh, the the

1906
02:17:20,799 --> 02:17:25,399
their their PLO hosts were originally pretty suspicious of them,

1907
02:17:25,440 --> 02:17:27,360
like not because they thought that they might be ops

1908
02:17:27,399 --> 02:17:31,799
who were you know, they're as double agents or something.

1909
02:17:31,879 --> 02:17:37,639
But they just weren't convinced they were serious. So initially, uh,

1910
02:17:37,719 --> 02:17:41,040
they kind of treated them like they were tourists, you know,

1911
02:17:41,280 --> 02:17:45,399
uh basically you know, took them around and kind of

1912
02:17:45,440 --> 02:17:50,239
filled them with with political propaganda about you know, Israeli

1913
02:17:50,280 --> 02:17:52,600
atrocities and which which were true. I mean, they weren't

1914
02:17:52,840 --> 02:17:56,079
you know that this this wasn't being confabulated. You know,

1915
02:17:56,120 --> 02:17:58,319
they take them to their rifle range and things like this.

1916
02:17:58,520 --> 02:18:01,520
They'd you know, they'd let it sitting on classes about

1917
02:18:01,760 --> 02:18:04,959
you know, you know, where they they where they they

1918
02:18:05,079 --> 02:18:10,600
study things like you know Mao's uh Red Book. This

1919
02:18:10,760 --> 02:18:16,520
soon cast a fair amount of hostility. But when Botter

1920
02:18:16,639 --> 02:18:25,879
insisted on being treated like any other revolutionary cadre, he

1921
02:18:26,000 --> 02:18:30,639
started he kind of started showing as uh showing his

1922
02:18:30,639 --> 02:18:37,120
bourgeoisie colors like he uh, he started he refused to

1923
02:18:37,120 --> 02:18:42,959
wear BDU's and caps. You know, he'd wear like uh,

1924
02:18:43,319 --> 02:18:46,559
he'd wear like civilian pants like jeans or like bekinds,

1925
02:18:46,600 --> 02:18:49,200
like velvet trousers that like hipster types like in those

1926
02:18:49,280 --> 02:18:53,000
days were like even during like training maneuvers. You know,

1927
02:18:54,040 --> 02:18:56,959
so you got this guy like, you know, wriggling under

1928
02:18:57,000 --> 02:19:02,000
barbed wire like on the train around like uh, you know,

1929
02:19:02,040 --> 02:19:07,680
wearing is like designer jeans and stuff. The as I

1930
02:19:07,680 --> 02:19:15,639
think I mentioned before, the uh, the FATA had no

1931
02:19:17,399 --> 02:19:20,440
they had no problem with then. They had no problem

1932
02:19:20,479 --> 02:19:22,760
with like training women to fight, you know, because because

1933
02:19:22,760 --> 02:19:27,719
they had to, you know, and in any revolutionary circumstance

1934
02:19:28,200 --> 02:19:35,920
that's uh essential anyway. But you know they obviously like

1935
02:19:36,000 --> 02:19:39,840
sleeping quarters and stuff were segregated, as were facilities and

1936
02:19:42,440 --> 02:19:47,440
body and Minehoff like refused to accept this. You know,

1937
02:19:47,559 --> 02:19:53,799
they presented them their auspices of you know, equality between

1938
02:19:53,799 --> 02:19:58,760
the sexes. But you know, uh, like for context, a

1939
02:19:58,760 --> 02:20:01,920
lot of these young uh, a lot of these young

1940
02:20:02,280 --> 02:20:06,040
Arab fighters, you know, we're like we were more than kids.

1941
02:20:06,079 --> 02:20:08,319
Like they they've never even seen like a naked woman before.

1942
02:20:08,360 --> 02:20:12,079
You can imagine like how disruptive this was. And this

1943
02:20:12,360 --> 02:20:17,959
uh almost led to the camp commandant who was an

1944
02:20:17,959 --> 02:20:24,879
Algerian you know, almost the almost you know, like like

1945
02:20:24,879 --> 02:20:28,760
like banning them from the from the camp and uh,

1946
02:20:29,000 --> 02:20:32,920
you know, putting them on a plane back to back

1947
02:20:32,959 --> 02:20:38,479
to Berlin. But Mahler was uh was able to kind

1948
02:20:38,479 --> 02:20:41,319
of like finesse things at least in the short term.

1949
02:20:41,760 --> 02:20:44,520
And like apparently one of the uh, one of the

1950
02:20:44,559 --> 02:20:51,760
student types who know the Rotimi fraction, it brought along

1951
02:20:51,760 --> 02:20:56,719
as a recruit like uh asked why there was no

1952
02:20:56,840 --> 02:20:59,920
Coca Cola machines like in camp, Like you know, like

1953
02:21:00,000 --> 02:21:06,600
these people are completely completely, uh disengaged from reality. So

1954
02:21:06,719 --> 02:21:09,840
this was not I emphasized this because like this was

1955
02:21:09,879 --> 02:21:14,319
not like an auspicious start to the Rogue Army fraction.

1956
02:21:14,520 --> 02:21:20,000
Then it it's important to consider that because like again

1957
02:21:21,040 --> 02:21:24,479
a lot of what you'll read, particularly in the era

1958
02:21:25,959 --> 02:21:28,399
I mean really from really from the eighties, from like

1959
02:21:28,479 --> 02:21:32,879
later Cold War, when the Iraf, when the third iteration

1960
02:21:33,280 --> 02:21:35,760
it was still active, Like we'll talk about it as

1961
02:21:35,799 --> 02:21:41,079
if it was this Stazi, the kind of squad of

1962
02:21:41,360 --> 02:21:45,520
terrorists that you know from inception was it was a

1963
02:21:45,639 --> 02:21:50,120
sort of highly effective you know, cadre element. Like it's

1964
02:21:50,200 --> 02:21:53,959
not the case at all. It was a very spontaneous development.

1965
02:21:54,040 --> 02:22:01,360
It was very much an organic, uh development of the

1966
02:22:01,479 --> 02:22:06,520
uh the kind of Berliner like student culture. Like the

1967
02:22:06,639 --> 02:22:10,840
fact that the Stazi and in my opinion specifically Marcus

1968
02:22:10,879 --> 02:22:18,600
Wolf was able to was able to uh, you know,

1969
02:22:18,680 --> 02:22:22,680
kind of molded into something highly effective, is is a

1970
02:22:22,680 --> 02:22:30,159
credit to Stazi operational sophistication as well as uh, you know,

1971
02:22:30,200 --> 02:22:37,120
the kind of like learning curve that emerged as these

1972
02:22:37,200 --> 02:22:42,639
kinds of asymmetrical conflicts of which you know, like Vietnam.

1973
02:22:42,959 --> 02:22:45,879
I mean, the Vietnam was was many things, including like

1974
02:22:45,920 --> 02:22:48,600
a very very much a conventional war, but there was

1975
02:22:48,600 --> 02:22:51,040
also an asymmetrical aspect to it. But as these kinds

1976
02:22:51,079 --> 02:22:56,239
of conflicts you know, sort of jumped off in earnest,

1977
02:22:56,360 --> 02:23:00,879
you know, people with partisan leaning, it came kind of

1978
02:23:00,920 --> 02:23:03,920
like more and more habituated to the reality of these things.

1979
02:23:03,959 --> 02:23:07,600
But this this is very early on in that and

1980
02:23:07,719 --> 02:23:14,840
that kind of conflict cycle. You know, in these these Palestinians,

1981
02:23:14,840 --> 02:23:17,799
I mean for years, you know, they've been they've been

1982
02:23:17,840 --> 02:23:22,879
living on canned meat, you know, like military rations, you know,

1983
02:23:23,639 --> 02:23:28,559
stuff from uh like canned canned goods from United Nations

1984
02:23:28,639 --> 02:23:33,920
relief organizations. You know, they uh, the the you know,

1985
02:23:34,120 --> 02:23:39,680
like I like fresh and meat was and and vegetables

1986
02:23:40,360 --> 02:23:42,959
and fruit was. I mean like a you know, it

1987
02:23:43,000 --> 02:23:44,639
was was a luxury to them, you know. So I

1988
02:23:44,639 --> 02:23:50,399
mean this this brit a fair amount of resentment too.

1989
02:23:51,239 --> 02:23:55,399
And there was a there's an anecdote of h apparently

1990
02:23:55,600 --> 02:24:02,760
uh oh ricky meinhoff on uh on the firing range.

1991
02:24:04,760 --> 02:24:10,200
An instructor uh handed or uh a Soviet grenade, which

1992
02:24:10,200 --> 02:24:15,680
we're like unlike the uh unlike the old Vermont potato

1993
02:24:15,719 --> 02:24:21,959
mash or grenades. The these are the ones uh that

1994
02:24:22,200 --> 02:24:24,280
they look kind of egg like, you know, and uh,

1995
02:24:24,520 --> 02:24:28,879
you unscrew the cap to free up the ring, you know,

1996
02:24:28,920 --> 02:24:31,159
and then like you pull up you'd pull you pull

1997
02:24:31,200 --> 02:24:35,000
a ring to pull the pin to fill. The instructor

1998
02:24:35,440 --> 02:24:38,159
showed ol Rike how to like you know, underscoo the

1999
02:24:38,200 --> 02:24:41,479
cap you know, to liberate the ring. And then she

2000
02:24:41,600 --> 02:24:44,440
pulled it and like held it as like the grenade

2001
02:24:44,479 --> 02:24:45,959
band of hass And they asked like what do I

2002
02:24:46,000 --> 02:24:52,760
do now? And uh just throw it, throw it like

2003
02:24:52,840 --> 02:24:56,760
ran forever. But this is the kind of stuff, uh,

2004
02:24:57,799 --> 02:24:59,399
this is the kind of stuff they were dealing with

2005
02:25:00,319 --> 02:25:04,280
the Palestinians. I mean, like uh kind of a kind

2006
02:25:04,319 --> 02:25:10,600
of a crazy man. And in the person of bot

2007
02:25:10,639 --> 02:25:15,319
Her and uh, most of the others, Uh, you know,

2008
02:25:15,360 --> 02:25:19,159
a lot of a lot of balls and no common

2009
02:25:19,239 --> 02:25:26,719
sense whatsoever, I do. But what what, however, what something

2010
02:25:26,760 --> 02:25:31,799
that did do? I think those who, including Andrew's Bottter himself,

2011
02:25:32,399 --> 02:25:36,559
the experience in Jordans None of these, none of these

2012
02:25:36,600 --> 02:25:41,360
people except uh l Riki mine Off had been a

2013
02:25:41,360 --> 02:25:48,040
little kid during the war years, and so I had Mahler,

2014
02:25:48,120 --> 02:25:51,360
although Mahler was obviously as you know we just discussed,

2015
02:25:51,520 --> 02:25:54,440
had kind of a more sophisticated sensibility all kinds of ways.

2016
02:25:55,319 --> 02:25:57,319
But the rest of them had no experience of war

2017
02:25:58,319 --> 02:26:05,280
or combat. The uh. And in this in this Fetiine

2018
02:26:05,399 --> 02:26:11,120
camp where they were training, you know, Israeli bombers were

2019
02:26:11,280 --> 02:26:17,280
regularly circle the sky. Jordanian troops were at a stabs

2020
02:26:17,319 --> 02:26:19,879
the main line of resistance only a few kilometers away

2021
02:26:19,879 --> 02:26:26,520
from the camp. Everybody was issued live ammunition at all time.

2022
02:26:26,639 --> 02:26:29,639
Is because at any time, you know, and the idea

2023
02:26:29,680 --> 02:26:37,319
of consult you know. So whatever, however however cringe some

2024
02:26:37,360 --> 02:26:43,559
of these antics might have been, it did, uh, it

2025
02:26:43,639 --> 02:26:50,079
did prepare these people for for real comic situations, you know,

2026
02:26:50,239 --> 02:26:56,440
in a way that ordinary training could not. And I

2027
02:26:56,479 --> 02:27:04,920
think that that's significant too, because uh, this uh, this this, this,

2028
02:27:04,920 --> 02:27:11,440
this training lark is a lot of court of Storian

2029
02:27:11,440 --> 02:27:13,120
is right about it if it was just a sort

2030
02:27:13,159 --> 02:27:16,959
of like fiasco and and kind of like comedy of errors.

2031
02:27:17,000 --> 02:27:20,239
But yeah, I disagree, man, Like, yeah, there was that

2032
02:27:20,399 --> 02:27:23,639
aspect of it. But you have you situate anybody in

2033
02:27:23,680 --> 02:27:27,520
a combat zone like that, you know, uh, while they're

2034
02:27:27,600 --> 02:27:30,120
undergoing an intense kind of regiment of you know, it's

2035
02:27:30,159 --> 02:27:31,920
only just like great basic you know, kind of like

2036
02:27:32,000 --> 02:27:34,559
imagery skills and things, and like you know how to

2037
02:27:34,600 --> 02:27:37,159
read a map and a compass, and you know how

2038
02:27:37,159 --> 02:27:39,200
to keep your clash tack off clean and how to

2039
02:27:39,520 --> 02:27:41,760
you know how to load it and how to use

2040
02:27:41,840 --> 02:27:49,159
iron sights and things. You know, that learning these practical

2041
02:27:49,239 --> 02:27:54,040
skills when you're quite literally in a combat zone, even

2042
02:27:54,079 --> 02:27:56,520
if you're not taking hostile fire every day or something.

2043
02:27:56,600 --> 02:28:01,879
And I I I think that that I think that

2044
02:28:01,959 --> 02:28:07,079
that confers a certain benefit that they can't easily be

2045
02:28:07,280 --> 02:28:13,200
quantified by traditional metrics. But uh, also too, because Palestine

2046
02:28:14,079 --> 02:28:19,360
was very much it wasn't just the front line of

2047
02:28:19,360 --> 02:28:25,600
of the Arab and Islamic struggle against Israel. But you know,

2048
02:28:25,719 --> 02:28:33,680
the the Algerian War was uh was still fresh in

2049
02:28:33,680 --> 02:28:38,280
everybody's mind, and it was still underway in some ways.

2050
02:28:38,319 --> 02:28:44,239
You know, the there was a certain prestige factor two

2051
02:28:46,840 --> 02:28:54,399
to making contact UH with the with the camp commandant

2052
02:28:54,520 --> 02:29:00,520
and other personages around him, like Abu Hassan, who Uh

2053
02:29:01,559 --> 02:29:05,200
the Palestinians were on very good terms with. And you

2054
02:29:05,200 --> 02:29:12,200
know the fact that the fact that these are effront

2055
02:29:12,239 --> 02:29:17,120
fruits and in particular horse tomolars. Again like I said

2056
02:29:17,120 --> 02:29:24,399
he was he wasn't is basically a political animal, you know, degenerated,

2057
02:29:24,520 --> 02:29:31,760
enduring channels and communication, you know, And like I said,

2058
02:29:31,799 --> 02:29:39,559
I I I write a lot about Johann Vondeliers as

2059
02:29:39,600 --> 02:29:44,719
well as UH some other third right personages like quite

2060
02:29:44,719 --> 02:29:48,479
literally during the Cold War, like joined the Arab camp.

2061
02:29:49,040 --> 02:29:51,840
You know, von Leers himself. He he converted to his

2062
02:29:51,959 --> 02:29:56,319
Lamb to the name Omar mean certing the court of Nasser.

2063
02:29:58,280 --> 02:30:04,120
You know, he viewed is Lam as as the dialectrical

2064
02:30:04,200 --> 02:30:12,639
antithesis of Judaism. And thus you know, the perfect UH

2065
02:30:14,000 --> 02:30:17,600
sort of principal like rallying principle in order to defeat,

2066
02:30:17,799 --> 02:30:22,120
in order to defeat what he perceived as a then

2067
02:30:22,239 --> 02:30:29,079
triumphant Jewish dialectic UH in the zeitgeist. Okay, I'm not

2068
02:30:29,120 --> 02:30:33,079
saying that like Mahler was, you know it was was

2069
02:30:33,319 --> 02:30:37,520
was thinking these sorts of things like von Leers was.

2070
02:30:38,360 --> 02:30:43,600
But instinctively, I I think that he very much was

2071
02:30:44,239 --> 02:30:50,879
within that, you know, like engaged in that paradigm psychologically

2072
02:30:52,079 --> 02:30:55,440
such as it was to the UH. Really kind of

2073
02:30:55,479 --> 02:31:03,079
the the zenith of UH, of the first UH. The

2074
02:31:03,079 --> 02:31:05,520
first iteration of the RAF was the hydro I think

2075
02:31:05,520 --> 02:31:13,079
of Lufthansa flight. This was after most of the key

2076
02:31:13,120 --> 02:31:17,520
personages of the roote army fraction the bottom of minehaut

2077
02:31:17,600 --> 02:31:20,760
iteration of it, I did they'd been killed or captured,

2078
02:31:21,040 --> 02:31:28,399
you know, arrested. The UH. The security elements of the

2079
02:31:28,280 --> 02:31:36,680
of the Buddhist Republic had gotten a tremendous boone owing

2080
02:31:36,719 --> 02:31:41,000
to you know, the the the these terrorist activities that

2081
02:31:41,040 --> 02:31:45,680
were under way, and specifically, you know, the the Munich

2082
02:31:45,719 --> 02:31:49,079
situation in nineteen seventy two, or the the Israeli athletes

2083
02:31:49,120 --> 02:31:58,559
were were slaughtered. But lufthans A flight on October thirteenth,

2084
02:32:00,159 --> 02:32:07,000
seventy seven and the summer of seventy seven colloquially became

2085
02:32:07,040 --> 02:32:11,440
known as the German Autumn owing to the an epidemic

2086
02:32:11,440 --> 02:32:13,440
of political of violence, and this is considered to be,

2087
02:32:13,639 --> 02:32:18,760
you know, kind of one of the most what one

2088
02:32:18,760 --> 02:32:24,280
of the one of the most brazen instances of it.

2089
02:32:24,520 --> 02:32:32,079
For operators from the Popular Front Fliberation at Palestine hijacked

2090
02:32:32,479 --> 02:32:38,920
liftions of Flight one eighty one, and their specific objective

2091
02:32:40,680 --> 02:32:45,840
was to secure the release of the imprisoned Ruth Army faction. Okay,

2092
02:32:46,799 --> 02:32:50,200
and again I this is what I was getting at

2093
02:32:50,239 --> 02:32:56,159
when I was talking about Horse to Maler, and what

2094
02:32:56,200 --> 02:33:01,319
I believe is is, you know, rather profound ability to

2095
02:33:01,399 --> 02:33:07,760
index with other revolutionary elements. And like we talked about before,

2096
02:33:08,360 --> 02:33:11,600
the Popular Front Filiberation of Palestine kind of their whole

2097
02:33:13,920 --> 02:33:16,639
part of their whole grand strategy was to demonstrate an

2098
02:33:16,719 --> 02:33:21,200
ability to project power globally, you know. And this this

2099
02:33:21,399 --> 02:33:27,440
endured until the end of the Cold War. Interestingly, the

2100
02:33:27,479 --> 02:33:32,639
Popular Front Liberation of Palestine still exists. I don't know

2101
02:33:32,760 --> 02:33:36,360
to what degree they still abide a Marxist Leninist program,

2102
02:33:37,120 --> 02:33:42,639
but they fought on the side of Asad against Isis,

2103
02:33:43,920 --> 02:33:51,760
and I believe that they're active in the Yemen Civil War,

2104
02:33:53,600 --> 02:33:57,799
and they there's a militia also under arms in Yemen.

2105
02:33:58,280 --> 02:34:04,000
They called itself UH, you know, something like the the UH,

2106
02:34:04,799 --> 02:34:07,280
like the Armed Grouping of South Yemen or something like that.

2107
02:34:08,319 --> 02:34:12,440
Now South Yemen was, of course, uh, it was a

2108
02:34:12,479 --> 02:34:15,040
Soviet client state. It no longer exists, but it was

2109
02:34:15,040 --> 02:34:18,639
the only it was the only Marxist Leninist Arab state.

2110
02:34:18,840 --> 02:34:20,040
So it was kind of like a feather in the

2111
02:34:20,079 --> 02:34:24,440
cap of Warsaw Pact. But I speculate very strongly that

2112
02:34:24,520 --> 02:34:27,799
the sudden emergence of these guys like fight riding under

2113
02:34:27,799 --> 02:34:31,040
the banner of South Yemen and clicking up with the

2114
02:34:31,079 --> 02:34:33,879
PFLP like that's they they were. They were very much

2115
02:34:33,879 --> 02:34:36,319
into a Russian patronage. I think that should be clear.

2116
02:34:36,360 --> 02:34:41,280
I find that kind of fascinating. But because it may

2117
02:34:43,760 --> 02:34:49,280
the UH, there's this uh, there's this spectacular UH raid

2118
02:34:50,399 --> 02:34:58,479
the free the hostages on flight lift on the flight

2119
02:34:58,520 --> 02:35:03,879
one one they played it ultimately landed in Mogadishu, Somalia,

2120
02:35:06,000 --> 02:35:11,399
and the Somali Army they uh, they provided a distraction

2121
02:35:11,520 --> 02:35:17,239
and they detonated this ordinance on the runway in front

2122
02:35:17,239 --> 02:35:21,879
of the nose of the aircraft. So the hijackers rushed

2123
02:35:21,920 --> 02:35:25,840
the front to see was underway, and then these these

2124
02:35:25,840 --> 02:35:31,600
commandos from GSG nine, you know, which is the like

2125
02:35:31,639 --> 02:35:35,879
Special Operations Element and these British sas guys, you know,

2126
02:35:35,920 --> 02:35:40,479
they then uh they then blew open the passenger door

2127
02:35:42,760 --> 02:35:49,639
and uh and and and took out the terrorists. But

2128
02:35:52,120 --> 02:36:02,200
it uh pretty much immediately after uh, like after the

2129
02:36:02,360 --> 02:36:06,319
like I was talking, like, you know, days after the

2130
02:36:06,319 --> 02:36:15,319
the incident, the UH, A bunch of the imprisoned ARIF

2131
02:36:15,920 --> 02:36:28,479
members UH died supposedly by suicide, including Andrea's batter, Gudrun Insulin,

2132
02:36:29,719 --> 02:36:38,879
John Carl Rasp and Ingrid Moeller who UH supposedly attempted

2133
02:36:38,879 --> 02:36:45,040
suicide but survived her injuries. But the believe, the claim

2134
02:36:45,079 --> 02:36:49,280
of Mahler as well as others, was that you know,

2135
02:36:49,319 --> 02:36:53,200
these these people were murdered by by the guards and

2136
02:36:53,280 --> 02:36:59,600
uh it was in the immediate uh aftermath. Helmut Schmidt,

2137
02:37:00,760 --> 02:37:06,079
who was the consular UH the Buddhist Republic, he uh,

2138
02:37:07,280 --> 02:37:10,159
he was hailed as a hero in the Western world

2139
02:37:10,319 --> 02:37:13,239
for you know, for his decision to storm the air

2140
02:37:13,319 --> 02:37:21,159
craft and refuse to negotiate, and you know he uh

2141
02:37:21,559 --> 02:37:24,239
and interesting in West Germany and Somalia like became very

2142
02:37:24,280 --> 02:37:28,879
tight after this, like going to their operational integration militarily

2143
02:37:30,360 --> 02:37:36,120
and obviously like Somalia, you know, having a substantial Mauslim population.

2144
02:37:37,479 --> 02:37:41,079
This was like good pr but it it was believed

2145
02:37:41,920 --> 02:37:46,479
again by people like course Mahler and others like some

2146
02:37:46,479 --> 02:37:49,360
some sympathetic to the Royal Army Fractions, some not that

2147
02:37:50,639 --> 02:37:57,600
you know that uh you know Schmidt's uh, people like

2148
02:37:57,959 --> 02:38:02,399
had had these Rotarmy Fraction prisoners murdered as part of

2149
02:38:02,440 --> 02:38:06,360
their Basically they're saying like, look like you're not. No,

2150
02:38:06,360 --> 02:38:09,360
nobody's gonna nobody's gonna hijack our planes and hurt our

2151
02:38:09,440 --> 02:38:12,440
people like to try and you know, spring motherfuckers like this,

2152
02:38:12,520 --> 02:38:15,840
We're just gonna. We're just not We're gonna, We're gonna

2153
02:38:15,920 --> 02:38:19,000
kill them. I think that's and I mean that's that

2154
02:38:19,120 --> 02:38:21,239
kind of thing probably seems like, I'm thinkable today, not

2155
02:38:21,239 --> 02:38:24,079
because the brutality or something, but I mean within the

2156
02:38:24,120 --> 02:38:30,319
Cold War the context of it, I mean, it was

2157
02:38:32,319 --> 02:38:36,840
like certain things like certain things are acceptable, but they

2158
02:38:36,920 --> 02:38:39,520
just weren't discussed. You know. There was kind of like

2159
02:38:39,520 --> 02:38:42,840
a hotshots wink wink like aspect to it. And I

2160
02:38:42,840 --> 02:38:46,120
think that's I think that's I think that's pretty clearly

2161
02:38:46,200 --> 02:38:51,959
what happens also too. It's you know, the something that

2162
02:38:51,959 --> 02:38:55,879
what changed to in the later iterations of the butter

2163
02:38:57,239 --> 02:39:00,760
of the of the Rote Army Fraction. First of all,

2164
02:39:00,799 --> 02:39:06,159
they became very adept at a striking you know, like

2165
02:39:06,280 --> 02:39:12,239
prestige targets, you know, like businessman, industrialists, bank presidents. You know,

2166
02:39:12,360 --> 02:39:13,760
like I said, what was going to be kind of

2167
02:39:13,760 --> 02:39:16,639
like the feather and the cap. I'm not trying to

2168
02:39:16,639 --> 02:39:22,200
be crashed by, you know, discussing an attempt at homicide

2169
02:39:22,239 --> 02:39:27,239
and flipping terms, but kind of like their big their

2170
02:39:27,280 --> 02:39:30,120
big coup was going to be, you know, blowing up

2171
02:39:30,639 --> 02:39:35,239
General l Hague when he was Supreme Commander of NATO.

2172
02:39:36,440 --> 02:39:46,120
It's like their operational focus very much shifted towards you know,

2173
02:39:46,719 --> 02:39:50,879
kind of proceeding as the vanguard of an occupied country.

2174
02:39:51,879 --> 02:39:55,079
And that was very different than what the bottom Minhaw

2175
02:39:55,239 --> 02:39:59,280
Federation of the Rose Army Fraction was doing. You know.

2176
02:40:00,079 --> 02:40:04,639
I mean, not only was the initial organization kind of

2177
02:40:04,639 --> 02:40:08,440
scattered shot in their priorities, but they were very much

2178
02:40:08,440 --> 02:40:14,079
trying to index with you know, kind of like the

2179
02:40:14,120 --> 02:40:19,360
global like proletarian revolutionary liberation movement, you know, And like

2180
02:40:19,440 --> 02:40:25,120
I said, I horse de Mahler and outsized impact on

2181
02:40:26,239 --> 02:40:33,120
their strategic operational priorities, and him kind of viewing Israel

2182
02:40:33,280 --> 02:40:38,600
as like the primary adversary of a revolutionary German armed

2183
02:40:38,600 --> 02:40:45,360
grouping made perfect sense. But the fact that later, you know,

2184
02:40:46,719 --> 02:40:49,760
the legacy what was what what was the sul An

2185
02:40:49,840 --> 02:40:55,120
unfighted like legacy organizations or success organizations. You know, their

2186
02:40:55,159 --> 02:41:02,159
targets became, you know, the economic the high financial economic infrastructure,

2187
02:41:02,200 --> 02:41:06,280
the bud Is Republic and NATO, you know, I mean,

2188
02:41:06,319 --> 02:41:09,879
and that's very I think that very much indexes with

2189
02:41:09,920 --> 02:41:15,360
an understanding of them being you know, a DDR client

2190
02:41:15,600 --> 02:41:20,479
regime like the Chazi's notion always was. And this was

2191
02:41:20,559 --> 02:41:26,680
proper if your ambition is to discredit the buds Republic

2192
02:41:27,879 --> 02:41:36,159
was two you know, first last, and always portray the

2193
02:41:36,239 --> 02:41:43,600
bond regime as this this militaristic like American client regime

2194
02:41:44,479 --> 02:41:52,280
that had no real legitimacy and had no real support

2195
02:41:52,280 --> 02:41:56,879
from the body politic, you know, and that in and

2196
02:41:57,000 --> 02:42:04,040
of it, like that whose existence itself preserved you know,

2197
02:42:04,360 --> 02:42:10,159
an elevated state of arousal for lack of a better term,

2198
02:42:11,559 --> 02:42:16,000
of arn't forces in theater because its very existence was

2199
02:42:16,120 --> 02:42:21,680
dangerously provocative, you know, and don't get me wrong, Like

2200
02:42:21,760 --> 02:42:26,200
Warsaw Pack definitely was at war with Israel. They were

2201
02:42:26,239 --> 02:42:33,079
literally actively at war with Israel. But you know a

2202
02:42:33,440 --> 02:42:42,799
H a West German UH non state actor element that

2203
02:42:42,879 --> 02:42:49,840
Warsaw Packed UH was aiding and at betting and you know,

2204
02:42:50,000 --> 02:42:57,239
providing operational priorities to the way, Like it makes perfect

2205
02:42:57,280 --> 02:43:00,000
sense that you know their their their targets would be

2206
02:43:00,040 --> 02:43:06,520
the NATO officers and and and and key personages and

2207
02:43:08,000 --> 02:43:18,639
the West German infrastructure. We can UH, that's about all

2208
02:43:18,680 --> 02:43:22,200
I got on like the bottom Minehoff iteration. We can

2209
02:43:22,239 --> 02:43:29,319
get into the subsequent manifestations of this phenomenon if you

2210
02:43:29,360 --> 02:43:31,399
want to, or if you want to change direction and

2211
02:43:31,399 --> 02:43:33,520
getting a different topic, we can come back to it.

2212
02:43:33,559 --> 02:43:37,559
But it's it's like it's a huge topic, like the

2213
02:43:37,760 --> 02:43:41,559
UH I've got like empowering my way through to refreshment recollection,

2214
02:43:43,760 --> 02:43:47,760
like these two volumes on like the entire history about

2215
02:43:47,840 --> 02:43:52,719
like half way through. But I don't I don't want

2216
02:43:52,719 --> 02:43:56,200
to spend too much time on one discrete topic. I

2217
02:43:56,200 --> 02:44:03,840
will if you want to, But that's.

2218
02:44:00,840 --> 02:44:02,600
Speaker 1: Something we can come back to if we have a

2219
02:44:03,399 --> 02:44:06,159
one off episode we wanted to do. We're already doing

2220
02:44:06,159 --> 02:44:08,319
that one up. We're already planning a one off episode

2221
02:44:08,360 --> 02:44:12,079
coming up later this week, and then I figure we

2222
02:44:12,239 --> 02:44:14,440
just probably after that just started on a new topic.

2223
02:44:14,840 --> 02:44:16,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, it's great. And yeah, also as we get

2224
02:44:16,959 --> 02:44:22,120
into yeah, when it when it's when it's topically appropriate,

2225
02:44:24,719 --> 02:44:26,799
like to uh get into like able arch or ara

2226
02:44:26,879 --> 02:44:30,920
cold war. I'll come back to it. But I don't

2227
02:44:30,959 --> 02:44:32,959
want people, uh, I mean people. People are free to

2228
02:44:32,959 --> 02:44:35,760
criticize me like whoever they want, but I mean, like

2229
02:44:35,840 --> 02:44:38,159
I I don't want people think, Okay, what the hell,

2230
02:44:38,159 --> 02:44:40,120
like you didn't you know you're only covering you know,

2231
02:44:40,159 --> 02:44:42,440
like basically like one third of the subject. It's like

2232
02:44:44,479 --> 02:44:46,479
and it's it's not because I'm like lacking or because

2233
02:44:46,479 --> 02:44:48,600
I can't realize that there's like a lot more to cover.

2234
02:44:49,200 --> 02:44:52,559
And also I think for at least for our purposes

2235
02:44:52,879 --> 02:44:55,360
or for my purposes rather like I said, I think

2236
02:44:55,399 --> 02:44:57,760
the percentage of horse and Molleler is very important. And

2237
02:45:01,760 --> 02:45:04,040
he's presented some kind of crank or some kind of

2238
02:45:04,040 --> 02:45:10,840
opportunists or uh, some people accuse him of being, you know,

2239
02:45:10,920 --> 02:45:15,479
some sort of intelligence agent who you know, simply it

2240
02:45:15,520 --> 02:45:20,120
took on the role of a turn coat because you

2241
02:45:20,159 --> 02:45:23,000
know his uh his agency's ops became you know, like

2242
02:45:23,719 --> 02:45:26,399
neo Nazis and lieu of communists. If the what that's

2243
02:45:26,440 --> 02:45:31,040
that's complete nonsense. And I don't I don't see how

2244
02:45:31,200 --> 02:45:32,639
old man that k is gonna sing the man went

2245
02:45:32,680 --> 02:45:38,440
to prison for like five years, you know, for for

2246
02:45:38,559 --> 02:45:43,079
a quote unquote Holocaust denial. But yeah, I hope, uh,

2247
02:45:43,639 --> 02:45:45,840
I hope people this series is been getting a lot

2248
02:45:45,840 --> 02:45:48,159
of praise and I'm very like honored and humbled by that.

2249
02:45:48,319 --> 02:45:52,920
I I hope people, uh continue to get a lot

2250
02:45:53,000 --> 02:45:57,799
out of this series, but with with this episode. So

2251
02:45:57,959 --> 02:46:01,120
I'm very I'm very fortunate you're willing to invite me

2252
02:46:01,159 --> 02:46:04,959
on to cover these topics, man, and uh, I want to.

2253
02:46:04,959 --> 02:46:07,159
I want to thank everybody very much for their their

2254
02:46:07,239 --> 02:46:09,200
kind words and constructive feedback.

2255
02:46:10,600 --> 02:46:14,479
Speaker 3: Of course it do quick plugs and we'll get out of.

2256
02:46:14,479 --> 02:46:17,319
Speaker 2: Here, yes sir, Oh yeah too, we got we We

2257
02:46:17,360 --> 02:46:19,520
also got to get back to our mystery science year

2258
02:46:19,559 --> 02:46:21,079
three thousand. Seriously.

2259
02:46:21,280 --> 02:46:22,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll do We'll do that next week.

2260
02:46:23,000 --> 02:46:25,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. Man. The best place to find like the

2261
02:46:26,040 --> 02:46:31,639
kind of the one stop uh site for like all

2262
02:46:31,680 --> 02:46:34,600
my content is my it's just my website. It's Thomas

2263
02:46:34,600 --> 02:46:37,879
seven seven seven dot com number seven h M A

2264
02:46:37,879 --> 02:46:40,319
S seven seven seven dot com. You find everything there.

2265
02:46:42,520 --> 02:46:45,879
My sub stick that's where I do long form stuff.

2266
02:46:45,879 --> 02:46:49,840
That's where the podcast is at. It's real Thomas seven

2267
02:46:49,920 --> 02:46:53,159
seven seven dot subsec dot com. You can find me

2268
02:46:53,200 --> 02:47:00,319
on x formally Twitter at real Capital r E L

2269
02:47:02,120 --> 02:47:08,840
Underscore number seven ho An seven seven seven. I'm on

2270
02:47:09,040 --> 02:47:14,319
a t gram. It's a mind phaser is my t gram.

2271
02:47:14,360 --> 02:47:16,840
It's named after the pod. But if you just if

2272
02:47:16,840 --> 02:47:19,239
you just look for Thomas seven seven seven and t gram,

2273
02:47:19,239 --> 02:47:23,479
like you'll find it. I'm not I'm I'm active on

2274
02:47:23,520 --> 02:47:25,520
the every couple of days. I'm not super active because

2275
02:47:25,520 --> 02:47:27,600
I'm not a big fan of t gram. Back in

2276
02:47:27,639 --> 02:47:30,200
the days when I literally could not like get a

2277
02:47:30,200 --> 02:47:33,360
social media account without a thing nuked in minutes, I

2278
02:47:33,399 --> 02:47:38,399
relied heavily on it. But I am on there and

2279
02:47:38,479 --> 02:47:41,079
yeah that's I'm on Instagram, and yeah, seeking you so

2280
02:47:41,200 --> 02:47:41,399
fine

2281
02:47:42,840 --> 02:47:44,840
Speaker 3: All right, Thomas, So the next time, thank you,