Speaker 1: Welcome to Thrilling Threads, the show where we take all
the tangled research they really obscure historical texts and you know,
the viral social chatter, and try to weave it into
one cohesive and hopefully mind bending conversation for you. I
want to start today by asking you to think about
something that is honestly a little bit terrifying, just put
a little, just a little. What if mass belief didn't
just coordinate our behavior, you know, it doesn't just make
us all buy the same phone or vote for the
same person. What if it actually created something, something real,
something real. Is it possible that there's an invisible, maybe
even independent entity of wild thought form that gets born
and then sustain when millions of us share an intense,
focused belief.
Speaker 2: And we're talking about everything here.
Speaker 1: Everything from a simple viral meme that just seems to
get a life of its own to something as huge
as the global financial system or even the very idea
of the country you live in.
Speaker 2: That is the absolute core question driving our conversation today.
We are going deep into the concept of the egg.
Speaker 1: Even the word sounds weighty, it does.
Speaker 2: And the word itself has this fascinating kind of contested history.
It comes to us from the French igrigore, which goes
all the way back to the ancient Greek igoros, which
means it means wakeful or awake.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's already interesting.
Speaker 2: It really is. So in its most let's say generalized
modern definition, and egrigor is a non physical entity, a
thought form that comes into being from the collective thoughts
and critically, the intense emotions of a distinct group of people.
Speaker 1: So it's a group mind that takes on a life
of its own.
Speaker 2: Well, that's where the philosophical split happens. That's the duality
you mentioned. In say magical and occult traditions, it's often
seen as having a truly independent existence, almost like an
artificial intelligence we create that then lives on its own
outside our heads.
Speaker 1: Right, it exists onto logically in some non physical space.
Speaker 2: It's a thing, exactly, it's a thing. But then you
get the philosophical counterpoint, which you find in certain other
esoteric schools. You have thinkers like Renee Greena who looked
at it and said, no, it's just the collective psychic field.
He called it a collective entity.
Speaker 1: Okay, so what's the difference there that sounds similar.
Speaker 2: The difference is huge for Guenon, it's synonymous with the Eggregor,
but it's defined as being purely internal. It's psychological. It's
just the non physical sum of its human parts. It
has no independent will.
Speaker 1: So it can't be anything more than us, just amplified precisely.
Speaker 2: And that distinction, you know, whether this entity is truly
autonomous or if it's just a profound collective consciousness. That's
the central tension we have to grapple with today.
Speaker 1: Okay, so let's unpack this and sort of lay out
our mission here. We're going to be connecting these ancient
esoteric claims about Eggregor's and their smaller personal cousins called
toulpus right with some surprisingly modern and you know, measurable
cultural phenomena. We're talking about medics and the way ideas
go viral. We really want to understand how collective intention
might literally manifest reality.
Speaker 2: And we've got the sources to do it. We have
the foundational history that the supposed to psychic physics of
how this energy gets.
Speaker 1: Channeled psychic physics, I love that, and.
Speaker 2: We also have detailed academic research. There's one particular study
on how memes became these essential collective coping mechanisms during crises.
Specifically looking at the COVID nineteen pandemic in Puerto Rico, it's.
Speaker 1: An incredible collection of material. It really shows that whether
you want to call these things spirits or psychological constructs
or just viral information.
Speaker 2: Packets, it doesn't really matter what you call them.
Speaker 1: Right, they all seem to operate with this kind of
self replicating, energetic force that has real world consequences.
Speaker 2: A force that shapes our reality.
Speaker 1: Let's start at the beginning, then the historical usage, because
from what I understand, the original meaning of eggregor is
a million miles away from a group mind.
Speaker 2: Oh completely. The word originally had nothing to do with
human creations. It referred to spiritual, independent and so not.
Speaker 1: Something we make, but something we encounter.
Speaker 2: That's a crucial starting point. Yes, when you trace the
word way back, especially into early religious and apocryphal texts
like the Book of Enoch, the term refers to these
completely independent, pre existing angelic beings. They were known as
the Watchers.
Speaker 1: The Watchers. That sounds ominous.
Speaker 2: Well. According to the tradition, these watchers descended to Earth,
they intermarried with humans and they taught forbidden knowledge. They
were spiritual entities that already had their own powerful, non
human agency. So in that original context, aggregres were not
created by humans in any way.
Speaker 1: So centuries ago, the word wasn't about creation at all.
It was about observance and power. And I guess external influence,
the wakeful meaning really hits home there. They were always watching,
always intervening.
Speaker 2: It really does in that original sense, you know, these
powerful spiritually aware beings. It persisted for a long time.
For example, you have the traditionalist philosopher Julius Ivola, who
was deeply invested in spiritual heritage. He is the Greek
term ego the wakeful ones to refer to a sort
of elite group of spiritually aware people, an elite. Yes,
he suggested this elite was responsible for maintaining essential ancient
traditions in the modern world. It was a very clear
callback an allusion to those original transcendent watchers.
Speaker 1: Okay, and this is where the big conceptual shift happens, right,
This is the fork in the road, moving from these
transcendent external beings to something while something inside our own heads.
Speaker 2: This is the sharp divergence. Precisely, we go from Vola's
wakeful elite who are preserving these ancient external truths to
thinkers like Rene guanand who just completely stripped the concept
of its supernatural power.
Speaker 1: The guy you mentioned earlier, the.
Speaker 2: Very same Gwinnon, adopted the term collective entity, and for him,
the collective in its psychic aspect, is nothing more than
a projection and extension of the individual. This collective entity, therefore,
has nothing transcendent about it. It cannot be an independent
spiritual agent. It's purely internal, purely psychological.
Speaker 1: So if the Avola and the let's say occult views
suggests we're dealing with a potentially autonomous maybe even an
artificial intelligence, the Guenon view is much more comforting.
Speaker 2: It is much more comforting.
Speaker 1: We're only ever dealing with a collective mood, a shared neurosis,
or just a social phenomenon.
Speaker 2: That's the core conflict right there. If we take Brena's view,
the eggrigor can never be more than the sum of
its parts. It has no will of its own, separate
for the group that creates.
Speaker 1: It the other view.
Speaker 2: But if we take the occult view, the eggrigor, once
it's born, possesses this This terrifying will towards self preservation,
a will that might directly conflict with the best interests
of its own creators.
Speaker 1: That sets the scale perfectly. So to understand how one
of these colossal eggrigors is built, we have to zoom
way in. We need to look at its basic building block,
the individual thought form.
Speaker 2: Yes, the basic unit. The thing that's often dismissed is
just you know, fantasy or imagination. But our source material,
drawing from these esoteric traditions, it posits a very specific
energetic mechanism.
Speaker 1: It's not just thinking really hard.
Speaker 2: No, it's more than that. The idea is if a
thought is clear, distinct and strong, and if it's consistently
sustained by focus, and this is the most critical part,
if it is closed with intense emotion, then it can
take on a life of its own as a thought form.
Speaker 1: Okay, closed with intense emotion. Why is that part the
clothing so important?
Speaker 2: Because the emotion provides the prana, the life force. A
simple rational thought is just too diffuse. It doesn't have
enough energy. But a thought is charged with fervent hope
or consuming ambition, or deep fear or passionate hatred that
emotional intensity generates what are described as strong vibrations.
Speaker 1: And these vibrations do what they.
Speaker 2: Condense the thought. They give it a distinct, almost semi
material form within the non physical realm. It effectively gives
the abstract idea a bot.
Speaker 1: So sustain High intensity emotion is what moves an idea
from being just this fleeting thing to being energetically tangible exactly, and.
Speaker 2: The most intense personal version of that is what's known
as the tulpa. The tulpa, now, the concept originally comes
from Tibetan Buddhism, where a highly enlightened Buddha might manifest
a physical emanation of themselves to go out and help others.
That's usually a positive concept.
Speaker 1: But it got adapted.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah. Western occultists often adapted the idea to describe
a conscious being that's emanated by a single person's heavy
concentration and dynamic will, and sometimes the results are yeah.
Speaker 1: And the scary part is that these tulpas can become autonomous,
right and austin, they can become destructive to the person
who made them. It's like you're creating a conscious alter
ego and then you completely lose the ability to tell
it what to do.
Speaker 2: It is the ultimate expression of say, self betrayal or
self obsession gaining independence. You actually see this dynamic explored
beautifully in fiction, even when the writers aren't explicitly trying
to talk about occultism.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The source material points to the fictional version of the
composer Antonio Salieri in the film Amadeus.
Speaker 1: Oh, that's a perfect example of chilling dissection of the
tulpa concept. Salary is this great, devout composer, but he's
just consumed by frustration and jealousy over Mozart's effortless god
given genius.
Speaker 2: His professional envy has tried his rage at God. It's
so immense that achieves a form of materialization. Salary effectively
severs himself from the broader Christian Eggregor, the collective God
of his time and place. He rejects it, he does,
and instead, through the sheer, raw concentration of his repressed
ambition and hatred, he creates a wicked doppelganger of God.
This new entity is a tulpa. It's a pure thought
form built from his personal torment.
Speaker 1: And the power of that tulpa gets confirmed for him
when his own father's death is retroactively attributed to his pact.
With this dark reflection that seals the deal. He's convinced
of its power, which of course just feeds its autonomy even.
Speaker 2: More precisely, whether he channeled lover hatred, that focused attention
was the fuel. The tulpa built from such raw, focused
negative energy eventually becomes autonomous, and it torments him relentlessly
for the rest of his life.
Speaker 1: It's a mirror he can't look away from.
Speaker 2: He can't His inability to abandon it comes from the
fact that the tulpa perfectly reflects the cold mockery, the
deep sense of inadequacy, and the self hatred that's already
in his own heart, and eventually it dictates his actions.
This shows how one person's focused emotional output can create
a distinct, powerful entity, separate from the wider collective, the
smallest unit of an eggrigor.
Speaker 1: That's a genuinely terrifying idea, the thought that your most
repressed self hatred could gain autonomy and just start tormenting you.
It gives a whole new meaning to the idea of
self sabotage, doesn't it.
Speaker 2: It certainly does.
Speaker 1: Okay, So we start with the individual thought form the tulpa.
Now let's scale that up. Let's get to the group
level and explore the actual architecture, the creation of a
full blown eggregre.
Speaker 2: So the creation process. It's all about energy, and in
this context, that energy is consistently and intensely focused human attention,
which is then amplified by emotion. That's the prana.
Speaker 1: So walk me through the proposed psychic physics of this.
How does this energetic thing actually condense into existence? It
sounds like we'removing from philosophy into a kind of occult engineering.
Speaker 2: It is absolutely described as a process of engineering. An
individual thought form, like we just discuss, generate strong vibrations
in the body of the aura. Now, if this vibration
is repeated and intensified by emotion, it begins to condense.
It forms a whirling center of thought force, a vortex,
a kind of vortex. Yes. This center then attracts and
is surrounded by what's called cohesive or substance, which is
then charged with the life force with the prana.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's one person. What happens when you get.
Speaker 2: A group, when many people of like mind join this process,
all focusing their prana and emotions on the very same concept.
The individual psychic fields start to overlap, the collective field
gets amplified, It gets reinforced by the group act activity.
Each person's input strengthens and clarifies the form, So.
Speaker 1: The egrigorre's vitality, its strength. It all hinges on how
frequently and consistently people are focusing on it.
Speaker 2: Yes, the analogy of repeatedly drawing the contours of a
blueprint's perfect. The structure is a haphazard. It's a planned
structural process that requires consistency and focus from everyone involved.
Speaker 1: How do you ensure that thousands or even millions of
individual people are all focusing their energy on the exact
same concept. That seems impossible. This is where ritual comes in, right,
That's exactly.
Speaker 2: Where it comes in. Rituals and ceremonies are perhaps the
most effective, most sophisticated mechanisms ever designed for synchronizing the
emotional and mental output of a group.
Speaker 1: So this could be anything freemasonry, organized religious ceremonies, high.
Speaker 2: Level political rallies, corporate team building events. They are all
consciously or not designed to channel psychic energy efficiently to
construct and maintain an eggregre.
Speaker 1: The synchronization is the key. Then it ensures that those
thousands of individual inputs of krana don't just scatter into
diffuse chaotic thought, but that they converge on one defined
crystalline form precisely.
Speaker 2: And physical rituals are designed to affect the participant on
multiple levels at the same time. The sources they detail
the goal of affecting the triple form of the human being.
The triple form the physical body through specific postures, breathing techniques,
the emotional or astral body through music, chanting shared fervor,
and the mental body through specific symbols and repeated phrases
or mantras. These actions are intended to attract non physical entities,
including eggrigors, by making the participants better psychic conduits.
Speaker 1: It sounds like a process of tuning the human body
like a broadcast antenna to a specific frequency.
Speaker 2: That's a great way to put it. The ultimate goal
of many of these initiation rituals is to induce a
state of nosis.
Speaker 1: Nosis We usually translate that as.
Speaker 2: Just knowledge, right, but esoterically it means something much more specific.
It refers to direct knowledge and experience of the divine.
What it really means is achieving an altered state of consciousness,
one that bypasses the rational skeptical mind. Why is that
important because in that state, the individual is highly receptive
to specific, intended psychological and spiritual changes.
Speaker 1: So the ceremony isn't just symbolic window dressing. It's a
practice intended to shift the individual into a state where
the collective intent the eggregre can be transmitted directly to them,
often without their rational consent.
Speaker 2: Correct the unified group work combined with this synchronized intent
and precise ritual activity, it brings the eggregore into play.
The candidate, now in this receptive state, can be directly
affected by the eggregore working through the group members and
the shared energetic field.
Speaker 1: So that's why these traditions always emphasize group protection for
new members.
Speaker 2: It is dealing with these non physical entities. Without a
stable collective field to ground, you can be psychologically destabilizing,
to say the least.
Speaker 1: Okay, now we have to move to the really disturbing
phase of the eggregor's life cycle, the parasitic loop. If
the group is constantly nourishing this entity with this highly
focused energy, what happens when it gets too hungry?
Speaker 2: Once a thought form is sufficiently charged up with mental
force and praana, it reaches a kind of tipping point.
The sources say, it can be thrown off from the
group's aura and maintain an almost independent existence.
Speaker 1: And that's a loop.
Speaker 2: This shift is the basis of the parasitic loop. The
created entity it acquires personal traits, a character, and significant
power of its own, and then it subsequently begins influencing
and actively directing its creators.
Speaker 1: But wait, if the energy can be positive or negative,
why would the system necessarily become parasitic or destructive. Wouldn't
a powerful eggrigre of, say, collective happiness be just as sustainable.
Speaker 2: That's a really critical question. The sources suggest that while
positive aggrigors can and do exist like a collective spiritual
ideal of peace or compassion, the parasitic quality emerges when
the entity starts to prioritize its own survival above the
well being of its creators. Okay, and as we're about
to discuss, conflict and negative emotions generate the highest intensity
and the most reliable fuel, So an eggregore that is
seeking self preservation will often gravitate toward maximizing that high intensity,
negative input. It's just more efficient for it.
Speaker 1: The table's turn. The creative now commands the creators, and
often they don't even know what's happening. You give the
eggergre your awareness, your attention, and you're effectively including yourself
in its sphere of control.
Speaker 2: And this autonomy, this shift, It explains some major historical divergences.
Think about religious founders after they die, the influence of
the real person, their original nuanced message, it disappears. The
eggregore then develops further based on the hopes, the fears,
and the beliefs of the crowds who are now feeding it.
Speaker 1: So it becomes defined by the collective awareness.
Speaker 2: Yes, and it often morphs into something entirely different from
the original personality or the original spiritual message.
Speaker 1: It becomes an interpretation of an interpretation, just solidify by
collective psychic energy. This whole system of creation and control.
It really does sound like it needs conflict to survive.
Speaker 2: It does, and this is where the implications get very
very dark. Conflict and opposition are frequently identified as essential
survival mechanisms for the aggregor. If the most harvestable energy
is negative fear, anger, outrage, partisanship, then the entity will
actively cultivate environments that maximize this input.
Speaker 1: Which is why these supremely powerful aggregors so often come in.
Speaker 2: Pairs exactly, their conflict feeds both entities.
Speaker 1: It's a psychic economy of polarization. The more divided we are,
the more outraged we are. The stronger these systems become
because they are sustained by the very intensity of that friction.
Speaker 2: That's the loop.
Speaker 1: So if the aggregre is this ancient concept of collective manifestation,
then the meme is its modern, hyper accelerated, self replicating evolution.
The speed of the modern world has just fundamentally changed
the life cycle of these thoughts absolutely.
Speaker 2: The transition from say, a slow gestating religious eggrigre, which
might have taken centuries to build, to an instantaneous viral meme,
it just demonstrates the massive acceleration of cultural evolution. Let's
ground this in the academic definition first, though, Richard Dawkins
he coined the term meme back in nineteen seventy six
in his book The Selfish Gene. He modeled it directly
on the gene.
Speaker 1: So a gene is a unit of biological information replication
the meme is the cultural equivalent of that.
Speaker 2: Correct, a meme is in essence, a self replicating unit
of cultural transmission or imitation. Dawkins gave examples like melodies,
popular phrases, fashions, or even just the technology of how
to build a better.
Speaker 1: Arch, things that spread from person to person.
Speaker 2: Yes, contigious patterns of cultural information that replicate through imitation,
and they respond to selective pressures just like genes do furiation, mutation, competition,
and critically, their survival is based entirely on the behavior
they generate in their human hosts.
Speaker 1: In us and this is where the esoteric and the
academic definitions become well functionally identical. If an eggregore is
a thought form that's sustained by mental energy, then a
meme is by definition a digital thought form sustained by
our collective attention.
Speaker 2: From the occult perspective, a meme is explicitly considered a
wild thought form, and that word wild is really important.
It means it's an uncontrolled, spontaneous eggregor It lacks the focus,
directed intent of a long standing religious order or some initiatory.
Speaker 1: Right, so its survival is purely a numbers game.
Speaker 2: It's entirely contingent on the constant supply of mental energy
from those who use it and propagate it. Every click,
every share, every comment is a little bit of promise.
Speaker 1: So if the mental energy declines, the meme weakens and
eventually goes extinct. It's literally natural selection applied to psychic entities.
Speaker 2: It is, and the modern Internet infrastructure has become the
perfect boundless environment for these entities to thrive.
Speaker 1: In the ideal host.
Speaker 2: The global Internet acts as this highly efficient, non biological
host for these digital eggregors. Concepts can now inhabit the
neurological networks of the global Internet, which allows for exponential growth.
This digital realm is a crucible for the rapid formation
of public opinion, of cultural trends and shared values. It
accelerates the shaping of the collective psyche on a massive scale.
Speaker 1: So the slow gestation of an ancient agrigore, which might
have taken generations of concentrated focus and physical ritual, is.
Speaker 2: Now compressed into hours or minutes.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: Think about the eggregore related to some volatile trending hashtag
or particular piece of political outrage. It forms incredibly quickly.
It gains vast power and influence worldwide almost instantly, and
it can redirect the attention and the emotional praana of
billions of people.
Speaker 1: In an afternoon, and the technology just keeps getting faster.
Speaker 2: The rapid shifts in technology ensure this momentum continues. It
allows these eggregors to be formed and fed digitally with
just as much power, if not more, than the traditional
methods ever could.
Speaker 1: And what's truly unsettling here is when the operational mechanism
of this mimetic eggregre is understood and then consciously appropriated
by political actors, it proves there's a deliberate strategy to
exploit these collective thought forms for ideological ends.
Speaker 2: Well, the source material notes the example of how certain
actors consciously appropriated the Peppe meme. What began is a
pretty harmless, slightly melancholic internet cartoon, I remember that.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: It was charged by concentrated effort, through veiled symbolism, through
ironic rhetoric and specific narrative placement. It was charged with
high intensity, focused and often very negative intent, including racist
and anti Semitic sentiments.
Speaker 1: So the meme itself became the perfectly designed psychic vehicle.
It had the visual appeal to grab your attention, and
it had enough ambiguity to allow people to invest their
own high intensity emotions into it, whether that was ironic
detachment or genuine raw hatred exactly.
Speaker 2: And the successful weaponization of it led to its eventual
designation as AM the occultists they recognize the entity. The
political actors figured out how to manipulate and deploy this
emerging wild thought form for rapid ideological mobilization.
Speaker 1: It's a practical and frankly disturbing application of understanding memes
as these collective, self replicating entities.
Speaker 2: They are, in essence, digitally constructed pulpas that have been
scaled up to the level of an eggregore.
Speaker 1: This is where the conversation moves out of the esoteric
and entirely into social science. But it still provides this
profound empirical model for the exact dynamics of eggregore creation
and dissipation, especially during times of extreme collective stress.
Speaker 2: Yes, we have this detailed study on the use of
memes in Puerto Rico during the COVID nineteen crisis, and
it was analyzed through the lens of something called the
collective coping theory.
Speaker 1: And this study was published in PMC PubMed Central. It
just grounds this entire conversation. It shows a collective interpretation.
The very fuel of an eggregore shifts in measurable stages
when people are under pressure.
Speaker 2: The core finding is that memes, particularly those that leverage
humor and irony, they become a decisive mechanism for people
to reinterpret stressful social events. They operate as a measured
form of collective coping to mitigate the negative psychological effects.
Speaker 1: So collective coping isn't just random panic.
Speaker 2: No, not at all. It consists of learned and uniform
responses that a culture manifests to either eliminate a stressor or,
more commonly, to change the collective interpretation of that stressful situation.
Speaker 1: So when reality becomes overwhelming, the collective mind builds a
psychological construct, a temporary egg grigor to process and reduce
the fear and the anxiety. Okay, let's walk through the
four distinct stages of this coping theory that the study validated.
Speaker 2: It begins with the first stage awareness. This is the
initial exposure to the crisis messages, and it typically comes
from traditional media, TV, official press releases, public health warnings,
and so on. The study confirmed its first hypothesis. Media
exposure created awareness of the crisis, which then prompted the
observation of memes.
Speaker 1: But the crucial finding here wasn't just that people saw
the news. It was about how they perceived the news.
It was about the traditional media's effectiveness, or really its
lack thereof.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, the traditional media messages were often perceived as exaggerated, chaotic,
or just simply unbelievable. This is what's known as the
sleeping effect phenomenon.
Speaker 1: The sleeping effect.
Speaker 2: It's where people initially reject information because it's too sensationalized,
where it's too alarming to process. The results showed that
people in Puerto Rico interpreted the official media messages as
exaggerated and as failing to provide pragmatic answers on how
to effectively face the crisis, and that just contributed to
anguish and it upset the public.
Speaker 1: Ah. So, the failure of the official rational narrative created
the psychic void that the aggrigora the meme rushes into.
Speaker 2: Fill precisely, and that leads us directly into stage two divergence.
The virgins is defined by the degree of novelty that
transcends existing knowledge. Since the traditional media failed to provide
a plausible, emotionally manageable reality, memes stepped in. They captured
aspects of reality through singularization, treating the event as new, fresh,
and manageable, and crucially, they injected humor to reduce the
collective stress.
Speaker 1: How does humor function as a psychic buffer in a
situation like.
Speaker 2: That, Well, it transforms the raw emotional energy that intense
fear and prana generated by the crisis into a controlled,
palatable format. It allows people to cognitively distance themselves from
the aversive situation. It shifts them toward a more positive
or at least a more neutral, emotional state. The divergent
stage is all about creating an impressive, high impact image
that attracts attention and provides an alternative, lighter interpretation of events.
Speaker 1: And once that divergence establishes this new, humorous and relatable interpretation,
that interpretation has to become the majority view. This must
be convergence. The third stage.
Speaker 2: Convergence is exactly that. It refers to the fact that
some of the messages interpretations are adopted by the majority,
while other interpretations are abandoned. The study strongly supported its
third hypothesis. The interpretation of the crisis that was transmitted
by the observation of memes converged with the social interpretation
of the majority.
Speaker 1: The memes became the agreed upon collective truth about the
experience of the crisis.
Speaker 2: They did. Memes were absolutely vital here. They created plausible
collective identities through shared norms and values, often by establishing
socio political humor and counteracting the oversimplified, distant problems that
were being presented by the official media. They were the
interpretive link that fostered a collective understanding and a shared
experience for the majority. They essentially built a functional, temporary
eggregore of collective.
Speaker 1: Sanity, and finally, stage four normalization. The eggrigre, having served
its purpose of helping everyone cope, begins to dissipate.
Speaker 2: Normalization reflects the adaptation stage where coping in response become
less emotional. The final hypothesis was also supported. The use
of memes to face these stressful emotional experiences lost its
prevalence over time.
Speaker 1: So once the collective adapted and people gained a feeling
of control.
Speaker 2: The relationship between the crisis and the need for the
mean weakened. The aggrigor begins to starve and it dissolves.
It confirms the entire life cycle described in the esoteric texts,
but with empirical data.
Speaker 1: That is a profound connection the collective psychological coping mechanism
creating a shared emotionally charged interpretation to mitigate a stressor.
It perfectly maps onto the theory of creating and sustaining
a collective thought form to manage a chaotic external reality.
The study takes this abstract theory and gives it a
measurable life cycle. It proves the existence of these collective entities,
even if we only accept the purely psychological definition.
Speaker 2: Absolutely so, Now that we've established the dynamics of the
fast forming digital aggregor, we can zoom back out way
out to the colossal systemic eggregors, the structures that shape
civilization itself.
Speaker 1: These are the big ones.
Speaker 2: These are entities that have been built over generations, charged
with deeply validated, accumulated psychic energy. They are the frameworks
we live within, often without ever questioning their fundamental nature.
Speaker 1: And these are the ones that demand our allegiance and
our constant energetic input, often in ways we don't even recognize.
Let's start with the one that dictates loyalty and identity
for so many, the nation state.
Speaker 2: The nation state is described in our sources as a colossal,
hyper powerful eggregre. It functions as an imagined community. Its
operational reality depends entirely on the collective trust and adherence
to its myths.
Speaker 1: Its symbols, the flag, the anthem exactly, and.
Speaker 2: Its legal frameworks. It's sustained by the performance of collective
narratives what some historians call the invention of tradition, that
justify its continued existence and its superiority over other nations.
Speaker 1: The contrast between the physical and the abstract is so
key here. I mean, a nation has physical borders, it
has buildings, it has roads, But the eggregor is the
abstract real. It's the collective mythos of history, justice, of
identity that fills the gap between you as an individual
and the billions of strangers you call compatriots.
Speaker 2: That's the exact space the eggergre fills. Yeah, and the
sources suggest that the reason these systems are so incredibly
resistant to change, why political or systemic shifts are so difficult,
is precisely because of this energetic foundation.
Speaker 1: You're not just battling a policy, you're battling a psychic
leviathan with centuries of inertia behind it.
Speaker 2: Exactly right, Changing the direction of a nation involves combating
not just outdated policies or laws, but an ancient, autonomous
eggregre whose self preservation mechanisms are deeply, deeply entrenched. The
system has profound institutional inertia because it's built on layers
of accumulated, validated psychic energy, fueled by generations of patriotic
fervor and shared belief.
Speaker 1: But maybe the most potent global eggregre, the one that
transcends borders and commands the behavior of virtually everyone, regardless
of nationality or religion, has to be money.
Speaker 2: Money, and value. They constitute a monumental global egg orgore.
Currency is defined in the sources as a collective, imaginative construct.
I love that phrase. It's perfect, isn't it. Its power
to facilitate value, exchange and store wealth is based entirely
on our collective sustained trust and belief, not its physical form.
A dollar bill has almost zero intrinsic value, but our
shared belief that others will accept it gives it global power.
Speaker 1: The entire global economic system.
Speaker 2: The stock markets, debt structures, commodities, exchanges. It's a vast,
decentralized manifestation of sustained collective global thought.
Speaker 1: It exists purely because we all agree that it exists,
and that agreement makes it perhaps the most potent force
in the world. It's a perfect feedback loop. Our belief
creates its power, and its power reinforces our belief.
Speaker 2: And that collective belief is constantly being reinforced. Especially in
the commercial realm, corporate branding has become incredibly adept at
feeding its own specific commercial aggrigors.
Speaker 1: I see this abstraction every single day companies. They don't
present themselves as just profit machines. They present themselves as
friendly carrying entities. They have a specific, curated personality.
Speaker 2: The level of abstraction in corporate eggrigors is described as gargantuan.
They present this friendly facade precisely to penetrate the collective subconscious.
They're distilled symbols, the logos that jingles, the short emotional messaging.
They pierce directly past our rational minds and into the unconscious,
and that.
Speaker 1: Leads consumers to invest.
Speaker 2: Belief yes, which gives the aggregor the energy to control
consumer habits and loyalty. This competition for our attention and
our psychic energy actually has a specific name in the sources, attentionism.
Speaker 1: Attentionism. It's literally a war for our prana.
Speaker 2: It is the unconscious part of our brain. It thinks
in simple images and symbols, and that makes logos and
emotional hooks, the bare essence of the aggregor immensely impactful
and effective.
Speaker 1: This competition drives us right back to that con mechanism
we talked about. These mega eggrigors. They don't just exist passively.
They actively seek out conflict because that high intensity emotion
is the most reliable fuel they can get.
Speaker 2: This is a devastating insight into systemic control. Eggregors seek
conflict because that is how their power flourishes and how
they maximize attentionism. The sources emphasize that supremely powerful eggregors
often come in pairs where their duality provides constant friction.
Speaker 1: So Christianity needs is slim Apple.
Speaker 2: Thee's Microsoft. The political right needs the political left. Their
conflict doesn't destroy them, It feeds both entities equally.
Speaker 1: So if one eggrigre were to successfully eradicate all its enemies.
If say, a particular political ideology achieves total global hegemony,
it would actually become obsolete, or at least severely weakened.
Speaker 2: It would because it would lose the high intensity fuel
source of opposition, wow, the conflict, and the negative emotions
it generates, the fear, the anger, that distress, the outrage
of the essential survival mechanisms for the eggergre. The very
systems we inhabit cultivate environments that maximize this high intensity
emotional energy input from the masses. The more divided, outraged,
and partisan we are, the stronger these controlling systems become.
It's an incredibly efficient system of psychiccarvasting.
Speaker 1: The ultimate disturbing conclusion here is that we are actively
creating and sustaining these autonomous entities, often completely unknowingly, and
they operate completely outside of our individual control. We are
both the creator and the controlled.
Speaker 2: The control dynamic is completely reversed, and it becomes a
deep philosophical conundrum. The thought forms we create are inevitably
reflections of ourselves, but we are in turn subjective reflections
of the society we live in. It's a feedback loop,
a continuous cyclical feedback loop. The source material describes it perfectly.
One person's thought form blends into another. A tulpa becomes
an eggregore, and a piece of that eggregre becomes another tulpa.
It's a cycle that's been fed by generations of inherited
belief systems.
Speaker 1: So we inherit the energetic debt, the accumulated pawna of
fear and hope from thousands of years of collective human belief, and.
Speaker 2: This inheritance is incredibly difficult to shake. The ability to
just stop believing in a harmful concept, whether it's an
arbitrary cultural bias, a limiting self image, or a deeply
entrenched hatred. It requires immense spiritual or psychological work.
Speaker 1: Because your mind has been aggressively shaped by that concept
since you were a child.
Speaker 2: Exactly the eggregory you're trying to renounce is literally built
into your own thought process. It's part of your mental architecture.
Speaker 1: And the individual experience of this control is it's palpable,
especially for anyone who tries to seek leadership or influence
within a large institutional setting.
Speaker 2: The source State's a very bleak conclusion when it comes
to power structures. It says these Eggregors are often completely
out of human control, manifesting their power through the masses.
Speaker 1: And out through the leaders.
Speaker 2: The leaders are just conduits. The Source says, you cannot
hold power in any large institution, a corporation, a political party,
a major university without kneeling to eggrigors and parroting the
prescribed messages. The elites might think they're in charge, but
the real power of the Aggregor manifests through the masses,
who enforce the collective belief.
Speaker 1: The system enforces conformity to its belief structure, which is
designed purely to ensure the Eggregor's survival. So if the
system demands conflict and negative energy for its survival, how
does an individual or a small group counter a powerful,
entrenched and destructive eggregore. You can't just fight it head on,
can you?
Speaker 2: No? Direct combat is often futile. In fact, it's counterproductive
because resistance simply feeds the conflict. It generates more of
that high intensity negative rana that the Aggregor craves.
Speaker 1: So what do you do?
Speaker 2: The Source uses a really powerful analogy. If you are
facing a powerful Eggregor of death or destruction, you cannot
kill the desert with any amount of water. It will
just evaporate. It's too vast, Okay. Instead, you must systematically
populate it with life. The only way to counter a
negative eggregre is by planning and executing life affirming beliefs,
retaining that positive energy within your own focus, and establishing
a new center of gravity. It is a strategic withdrawal
of energy followed by a targeted spiritual and psychological rebuilding effort.
Speaker 1: You stop feeding the parasite, You.
Speaker 2: Stop feeding the parasite, and you nourish something new.
Speaker 1: Entirely, this whole cycle, it just highlights that our beliefs
and our awareness are not passive. We're not just consumers
of reality. We are the active agents in defining the
collective reality, and we have to constantly monitor what we're
creating and what we're hosting in our own minds.
Speaker 2: That's the responsibility.
Speaker 1: We have covered a tremendous scope today. We've connected this
ancient esoteric claim that collective intention creates artificial beings in
the non physical realm with the measurable reality that memes
and collective belief systems drive observable human behavior, institute utional architecture,
and emotional conflict.
Speaker 2: The core division it still remains. You have the ontological
claim that eggergres possess an independent, non physical reality outside
the mind, versus the behavioral causation view that says they're
merely emergent social constructs.
Speaker 1: But in the end, does the distinction even matter.
Speaker 2: That's the question, whether they are artificial beings or just
psychological forces. They command the behavior of billions of people,
and as we move into a future that's dominated by
digital platforms, the speed in the scale of eggregore creation
is only going to accelerate, and that makes this conversation
on attentionism and control more relevant than ever.
Speaker 1: What's especially fascinating to me is that the concept of
the eggregore is in itself autological. It's a mere concept
unless you believe in it, or at least unless you
dedicate your attention to understanding it, like we're doing right now.
Speaker 2: Well, if you were able to make sense of the
term today, you now belong to the specific referential field
that has been opened, and that is an important piece
of knowledge to have when you're determining how you spend
your emotional energy.
Speaker 1: So here is our final provocative thought for you to ponder,
Building on everything we've talked about if political conflict, religious dogma,
corporate branding, and even social media outrage are all systematic
mechanisms designed to maximize your emotional energy and your attention
the literal fuel for these entities. What beliefs are you
currently hosting? What reality are you actively helping to manifest today?
What systems are you unknowingly kneeling To leave
Speaker 2: A comment and let us know what you think about
the invisible entities that might be influencing your daily life