WEBVTT 1 00:00:18.039 --> 00:00:21.440 Hello, and welcome to the Texas Tribune trip Cast for Tuesday, 2 00:00:21.600 --> 00:00:25.679 January twentieth, twenty twenty six. I am Matthew Watkins, editor 3 00:00:25.719 --> 00:00:29.559 in chief of the Texas Tribune, joined as usual by 4 00:00:29.719 --> 00:00:33.079 Eleanor Klebanoff. Hello, Eleanor, Hello Matthew. How are you doing well? 5 00:00:33.359 --> 00:00:37.679 Just got back late last night from a family trip 6 00:00:37.719 --> 00:00:38.399 to New York City. 7 00:00:38.640 --> 00:00:40.759 Oh fun, where it snowed. 8 00:00:41.039 --> 00:00:43.920 The entire time we were there. Is my daughter's thirteenth birthday, 9 00:00:44.039 --> 00:00:44.520 So nice. 10 00:00:44.560 --> 00:00:48.560 Were your Texas kids very freaked out by the snow? 11 00:00:48.679 --> 00:00:52.000 They loved it. We walked through Central Park in like 12 00:00:52.119 --> 00:00:57.439 a driving snowstorm, and they followed from behind me like 13 00:00:57.560 --> 00:01:00.520 ten feet the entire time, pelting me with snow like 14 00:01:00.600 --> 00:01:02.560 the entire the dream walk. 15 00:01:02.640 --> 00:01:04.319 So yeah, it was great. 16 00:01:04.359 --> 00:01:07.719 Every thirteen year old's birthday, wish. 17 00:01:07.760 --> 00:01:10.719 That's right, yeah, right. This week we are going to 18 00:01:10.920 --> 00:01:15.359 be talking about immigration enforcement in ice in Texas, and 19 00:01:15.400 --> 00:01:18.959 we are joined by two guests to discuss that. First 20 00:01:19.040 --> 00:01:23.480 from the Texas Tribune making her trip cast debut, Houston 21 00:01:23.599 --> 00:01:27.920 based reporter Colleen de Guzman. Hello, Colleen, Hello, it's good 22 00:01:27.920 --> 00:01:31.040 to be here. We are excited to have you, and 23 00:01:31.120 --> 00:01:34.840 we also have a Houston based although currently located in 24 00:01:35.000 --> 00:01:38.680 San Antonio, immigration attorney Paul Pirella. 25 00:01:38.920 --> 00:01:42.519 Hey, Paul, Hi, thank you, Thank you for having me. 26 00:01:42.760 --> 00:01:45.079 Yes, thank you for being here. So, like I said, 27 00:01:45.120 --> 00:01:48.400 we are going to be talking about immigration here. Of course, 28 00:01:48.879 --> 00:01:52.640 for years and especially during the Biden administration, the Texas 29 00:01:52.719 --> 00:01:55.439 Mexico border has sort of been the focal point of 30 00:01:55.480 --> 00:01:59.879 our federal immigration conversation. But we are now in year 31 00:01:59.879 --> 00:02:05.760 two of the second Trump administration, and during the first year, 32 00:02:06.239 --> 00:02:08.280 the nation's eye kind of turned a little bit more 33 00:02:08.319 --> 00:02:11.319 toward the interior, right, A lot of things have slowed 34 00:02:11.360 --> 00:02:14.199 down at the border, and a lot of the action, 35 00:02:14.319 --> 00:02:16.360 a lot of the tension, at least in the national 36 00:02:16.400 --> 00:02:20.199 media has been in places like La Portland, Minneapolis, things 37 00:02:20.240 --> 00:02:25.400 like that. But Texas has remained a hotbed of immigration 38 00:02:25.599 --> 00:02:29.240 enforcement and activity, the Houston area being one of the 39 00:02:29.240 --> 00:02:32.280 most active places for ice arrests in the country. And 40 00:02:32.319 --> 00:02:34.120 so today we're going to talk a little bit about 41 00:02:35.960 --> 00:02:39.800 just sort of what's happening in Texas, how does it 42 00:02:39.840 --> 00:02:41.919 compare to the rest of the country, and what is 43 00:02:41.960 --> 00:02:45.439 the experience, you know, on the ground for people living 44 00:02:45.439 --> 00:02:48.919 through this every day. Paul, I want to start with you, 45 00:02:49.560 --> 00:02:53.240 and before we sort of talk about you know, ice 46 00:02:53.360 --> 00:02:55.560 and everything like that, I want to just talk ask 47 00:02:55.719 --> 00:02:58.479 just sort of about your role in this work. You 48 00:02:58.479 --> 00:03:01.199 are an immigration attorney. You you know, work with clients 49 00:03:01.280 --> 00:03:04.360 I know. But tell me kind of what your job 50 00:03:04.400 --> 00:03:07.680 has been this past year in this sort of new 51 00:03:07.719 --> 00:03:09.240 era of immigration enforcement. 52 00:03:10.280 --> 00:03:12.919 Of course, no, and thank you. So we have a 53 00:03:13.039 --> 00:03:16.360 small immigration firm in southwest Houston. It's just two attorneys, 54 00:03:16.360 --> 00:03:19.400 me in an associate whose name is Carlos Gutierres, and 55 00:03:19.560 --> 00:03:23.719 basically we do primarily we do immigration court work, so 56 00:03:23.840 --> 00:03:26.599 deportation defense, and we also do a lot of family 57 00:03:26.639 --> 00:03:29.439 based immigration with a little bit of employment based like 58 00:03:29.520 --> 00:03:32.759 visas and things sprinkled in. So what I can tell 59 00:03:32.800 --> 00:03:34.919 you is that in the last year we have had 60 00:03:35.240 --> 00:03:40.879 quite a big uptick in immigration enforcement basically defense work. 61 00:03:41.240 --> 00:03:44.080 So there's been a lot more cases involving detainees and 62 00:03:44.120 --> 00:03:47.560 a lot more cases of people getting sent to court 63 00:03:47.599 --> 00:03:50.479 and then we defend them in removal proceedings. I can 64 00:03:50.560 --> 00:03:52.800 tell you to talk about numbers, like I used to 65 00:03:52.800 --> 00:03:55.599 do maybe one or two detainee cases a month, and 66 00:03:55.639 --> 00:03:58.240 then in the last few months it's been basically more 67 00:03:58.280 --> 00:04:00.719 than one call a day from some by asking for 68 00:04:00.759 --> 00:04:03.719 a consultation because they have a family member or friend 69 00:04:03.800 --> 00:04:05.000 or somebody's being detained. 70 00:04:05.479 --> 00:04:09.400 So I can speak actually quite a lot about that. Okay, 71 00:04:09.560 --> 00:04:09.919 very good. 72 00:04:10.240 --> 00:04:12.560 So let's now let's take a step back and just 73 00:04:12.599 --> 00:04:15.319 talk about what Texas is experiencing. Colleen, you had a 74 00:04:15.360 --> 00:04:18.040 story that ran I believed yesterday kind of laying out 75 00:04:18.120 --> 00:04:25.360 the groundwork here. What has immigration enforcement in Texas looked 76 00:04:25.439 --> 00:04:26.639 like over this past year. 77 00:04:27.759 --> 00:04:31.519 Yeah, so the Trump administration, as we've seen in Texas 78 00:04:31.600 --> 00:04:35.560 is basically going all in on slowing down both do 79 00:04:35.759 --> 00:04:39.240 process for immigration and then also going all in on 80 00:04:39.519 --> 00:04:43.120 finding and documented immigrants within the country and within the state, 81 00:04:43.160 --> 00:04:48.199 already resting and deporting them. And like you said, what's 82 00:04:48.240 --> 00:04:51.959 different from his first term is that this year and 83 00:04:52.000 --> 00:04:55.560 this last year that we've seen is that they're really 84 00:04:55.600 --> 00:05:00.199 focusing on finding people at their work sites immigration where 85 00:05:00.199 --> 00:05:04.040 it's parking lots, and their homes. People have reported seeing 86 00:05:04.079 --> 00:05:08.800 ICE agents at federal buildings in Olpaso, immigration courthouses in 87 00:05:08.879 --> 00:05:13.759 San Antonio, and probation offices in Dallas. And so what 88 00:05:13.800 --> 00:05:17.519 we've really seen is that you know, they're looking everywhere 89 00:05:17.839 --> 00:05:21.839 for undocumented immigrants. And it's caused this huge wave of 90 00:05:21.879 --> 00:05:26.040 this new fear among undocumented immigrants across. 91 00:05:25.600 --> 00:05:29.959 The state, right, Paul, I mean, does that align with 92 00:05:30.199 --> 00:05:33.680 sort of the clients you've been hearing from, is it? 93 00:05:34.160 --> 00:05:37.439 I think one of the things that we sort of 94 00:05:37.480 --> 00:05:41.000 have understood about immigration enforcement in recent years, particularly under 95 00:05:41.040 --> 00:05:45.040 the Biden administration, but even maybe before that, is you 96 00:05:45.040 --> 00:05:47.279 would see a lot of things, you know, ice attentions 97 00:05:47.279 --> 00:05:50.240 and local jails and things like that. Are you seeing 98 00:05:50.240 --> 00:05:53.120 more people who are being picked up, you know, at 99 00:05:53.120 --> 00:05:56.240 their place of work or you know, having ice knock 100 00:05:56.279 --> 00:06:00.399 on their doors or or or that type of enforcement. 101 00:06:01.680 --> 00:06:02.240 Yes, I am. 102 00:06:02.319 --> 00:06:04.920 Unfortunately, so we've had a couple in the last month, 103 00:06:05.759 --> 00:06:07.839 well several in the last month. Well, one of the 104 00:06:07.839 --> 00:06:09.560 things that was a major change for me is that 105 00:06:09.600 --> 00:06:12.439 we had people picked up at checkpoints, you know, between 106 00:06:12.600 --> 00:06:16.439 here San Antonio and the border. Let's say Brownsville or McCallan. 107 00:06:16.519 --> 00:06:19.480 There's some checkpoints about about one hundred miles from the border, 108 00:06:19.519 --> 00:06:22.319 and in the past, people let's say, with pending cases 109 00:06:22.319 --> 00:06:25.959 that had entered on visas, that had applied for asylum, 110 00:06:26.120 --> 00:06:28.560 they were usually allowed to cross freely through those checkpoints 111 00:06:28.560 --> 00:06:30.279 as long as they don't cross outside of the United 112 00:06:30.279 --> 00:06:32.680 States while they're waiting for the case to be adjudicated 113 00:06:32.680 --> 00:06:35.079 by either USCIS or by the immigration courts, as long 114 00:06:35.120 --> 00:06:37.680 as they had status. And there's been even people in 115 00:06:37.680 --> 00:06:40.959 that case with absolutely no criminal history picked up at 116 00:06:40.959 --> 00:06:44.279 the checkpoints. I had a console with a person from 117 00:06:44.360 --> 00:06:47.759 Minnesota actually last Friday, where they showed me pictures of 118 00:06:48.680 --> 00:06:51.959 their truck and it has the glasses Saturday in. We're 119 00:06:51.959 --> 00:06:54.120 still trying to find out more information about that. But 120 00:06:54.120 --> 00:06:56.360 what the people that were witnessed to the event said 121 00:06:56.680 --> 00:06:59.720 that happened was that ICE came in and broke broke 122 00:06:59.720 --> 00:07:02.639 the dential clients windows and drag them out of his car. 123 00:07:02.959 --> 00:07:04.160 So that's very unfortunate. 124 00:07:04.519 --> 00:07:07.600 I can also say that I've seen, even though I've 125 00:07:07.639 --> 00:07:10.519 seen it less, I've seen people being dragged out of court. 126 00:07:10.680 --> 00:07:13.040 In one case in Dallas, Texas a few months ago, 127 00:07:13.199 --> 00:07:16.600 I think in the end of November, there was It 128 00:07:16.680 --> 00:07:18.319 wasn't one of my clients, but I was there in 129 00:07:18.399 --> 00:07:21.439 Dallas with the client in the courthouse in downtown and 130 00:07:21.519 --> 00:07:24.120 the ICE agents would wait until after the hearing was over, 131 00:07:24.199 --> 00:07:25.920 and then they took several people in front of me, 132 00:07:26.160 --> 00:07:27.720 in front of women in front of children. 133 00:07:28.079 --> 00:07:28.839 People were crying. 134 00:07:28.879 --> 00:07:31.279 It's one of the most I guess, horrible things that 135 00:07:31.319 --> 00:07:32.680 I've seen in my practice. 136 00:07:33.959 --> 00:07:34.120 You know. 137 00:07:34.199 --> 00:07:36.279 I feel like, and you're sort of alluding to this 138 00:07:36.399 --> 00:07:40.480 that during previous administrations, even previous Republican administrations, the focus 139 00:07:40.600 --> 00:07:42.600 was really on like part of the reason there was 140 00:07:42.600 --> 00:07:45.279 this partnership with the jails was people who were you know, 141 00:07:45.720 --> 00:07:48.480 alleged criminals or people who were you know, we would 142 00:07:48.519 --> 00:07:51.959 hear these sort of horror stories of you know, undocumented 143 00:07:51.959 --> 00:07:54.879 immigrants who were accused of really you know, horrific crimes 144 00:07:54.920 --> 00:07:56.680 and saying, you know, we need to deport those people 145 00:07:56.720 --> 00:08:00.680 because they're you know, their primary crime was being here, 146 00:08:01.160 --> 00:08:04.959 you know, without documentation. Their primary crime was something else. 147 00:08:05.839 --> 00:08:08.639 Now it feels like with these street raids and showing 148 00:08:08.720 --> 00:08:10.879 up at you know, even court hearings where people are 149 00:08:10.920 --> 00:08:14.959 there because of their documentation status, not because of their 150 00:08:15.360 --> 00:08:19.360 other crimes. That's a real pivot. I mean, Colleen, what 151 00:08:19.399 --> 00:08:22.279 are we hearing from like elected officials from the Trump 152 00:08:22.279 --> 00:08:25.160 administrations or talking about that shift. 153 00:08:25.920 --> 00:08:32.399 From public officials from politictions. MM. So there's been frustration 154 00:08:32.799 --> 00:08:37.240 about how the Trump administration is basically making these moves 155 00:08:37.320 --> 00:08:42.879 and decisions without much approval from anyone. For example, earlier 156 00:08:43.000 --> 00:08:47.080 last year, the Trump admission, the Trump administration made two 157 00:08:47.200 --> 00:08:52.200 really big steps and basically forcing a bottleneck at federal 158 00:08:52.200 --> 00:08:57.840 detention centers and courthouses, like about one hundred immigration judges 159 00:08:58.039 --> 00:09:03.240 left voluntarily or forcibly from their benches last year, and 160 00:09:03.279 --> 00:09:07.480 many were fired by the Trump administration, basically slowing down 161 00:09:07.519 --> 00:09:11.759 the process of immigrants going through their legal process. And 162 00:09:11.840 --> 00:09:15.559 I'm sure Paul, you could talk about this part. And 163 00:09:15.600 --> 00:09:21.240 he also barred migrants from accessing bond hearings, and that 164 00:09:21.279 --> 00:09:24.799 basically means that all detained migrants have to stay in 165 00:09:24.960 --> 00:09:29.279 detention centers for the duration of their removal proceedings now, 166 00:09:29.799 --> 00:09:34.399 and that basically removes judges from being involved in whether 167 00:09:34.960 --> 00:09:38.159 an immigrant has to be detained. And an expert told 168 00:09:38.240 --> 00:09:41.559 me that that basically makes ice both the jailer and 169 00:09:41.639 --> 00:09:45.519 the judge, since there's no longer a review of migrants detention. 170 00:09:48.000 --> 00:09:49.879 Well, can you help me I kind of understand. I 171 00:09:49.919 --> 00:09:53.320 mean what you have said at the start of this 172 00:09:53.480 --> 00:09:57.000 about you know, one to two cases a month turning 173 00:09:57.080 --> 00:09:59.759 into you know, basically getting a phone call almost every 174 00:09:59.799 --> 00:10:04.360 day from from clients aligns with you know what we 175 00:10:04.480 --> 00:10:07.200 hear from a lot of immigration attorneys. You know, the 176 00:10:07.639 --> 00:10:10.919 ability of people to find pro bono work is incredibly hard. 177 00:10:10.960 --> 00:10:15.039 Right now, the all the sort of immigration bar reports 178 00:10:15.120 --> 00:10:19.639 being the sort of you know, swamped with cases right now. 179 00:10:20.320 --> 00:10:24.360 I'm going to quote a line from Colleen's story here, 180 00:10:24.480 --> 00:10:29.360 which is said, daily irs in Texas have jumped from 181 00:10:29.399 --> 00:10:32.200 an average of eighty five per day during the final 182 00:10:32.240 --> 00:10:35.200 eighteen months of the Biden administration to one hundred and 183 00:10:35.200 --> 00:10:38.600 seventy six per day in the first six months under Trump. 184 00:10:38.879 --> 00:10:43.919 We're talking about a double a doubling essentially, But what 185 00:10:44.000 --> 00:10:47.519 you were sort of describing sounds like far more than 186 00:10:47.559 --> 00:10:51.559 a doubling of calls from people sort of workware services. 187 00:10:51.840 --> 00:10:55.480 Can you help me understand, like, what's is there something 188 00:10:55.519 --> 00:10:58.840 else going on here? Like what is it? What is 189 00:10:58.879 --> 00:11:01.960 it that's happening with you in your office and the 190 00:11:02.000 --> 00:11:05.399 experience of people reaching out to lawyers that's causing this 191 00:11:05.440 --> 00:11:07.320 to be such a dramatic increase. 192 00:11:08.240 --> 00:11:10.759 Yeah, and Colleen actually alluded to it right now. It's 193 00:11:10.759 --> 00:11:13.480 the ability to get an immigration bond. So there are 194 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:16.799 two specific cases that came out from the Board of 195 00:11:16.840 --> 00:11:19.919 Immigration Appeals last year. A matter of q Lee was 196 00:11:19.960 --> 00:11:23.080 around May, and then matter of Yehudetdo was in September. 197 00:11:23.480 --> 00:11:26.159 But the effect of those cases was that if you 198 00:11:26.200 --> 00:11:28.679 did not come in with a visa, so not through 199 00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:31.919 a parole, through CBP, one through the border, and definitely 200 00:11:31.960 --> 00:11:34.559 not if you entered without inspection. If you did not 201 00:11:34.600 --> 00:11:36.840 comment with a visa, you can't get an immigration bond. 202 00:11:37.039 --> 00:11:40.480 The EOIR, which is the immigration courts, the Executive Office 203 00:11:40.519 --> 00:11:45.279 of Immigration Review, has basically held or they received instructions 204 00:11:45.279 --> 00:11:47.480 from the Chief of Immigration judge saying that they don't 205 00:11:47.519 --> 00:11:50.720 have jurisdiction to hear bond cases. So in the past, 206 00:11:50.720 --> 00:11:52.879 when somebody would go to a nice check in, there 207 00:11:52.960 --> 00:11:56.879 was really minimal risk of being detained if they didn't 208 00:11:56.879 --> 00:11:59.279 have a criminal history, because if they were detained, they 209 00:11:59.279 --> 00:12:01.200 could get a bond and still be able to fight 210 00:12:01.240 --> 00:12:03.840 out the case outside. What's happened with this has been 211 00:12:03.840 --> 00:12:06.840 that drastic change in law. It's been litigated in California 212 00:12:06.960 --> 00:12:10.120 also here in Texas. But because of that, so if 213 00:12:10.559 --> 00:12:12.480 you go and then that's for one and then the 214 00:12:12.519 --> 00:12:14.559 second the things that you guys said about where the 215 00:12:14.639 --> 00:12:18.000 arrests take place has increased highly. I think the number 216 00:12:18.519 --> 00:12:21.000 of immigrants that are detained here in Texas, and a 217 00:12:21.000 --> 00:12:24.440 lot of people basically in the face of that, they 218 00:12:24.440 --> 00:12:26.840 get scared, and a lot of people are also foregoing 219 00:12:27.440 --> 00:12:30.120 the rights, kind of like Colleen mussaying, because it is 220 00:12:30.159 --> 00:12:33.399 sort of an infringement and due process that somebody with 221 00:12:34.159 --> 00:12:37.919 very strong criminal accusations, maybe even you know, aggravated assault 222 00:12:37.960 --> 00:12:39.960 or murder will most of the time be able to 223 00:12:39.960 --> 00:12:41.799 at least apply for a bond hearing in front of 224 00:12:41.799 --> 00:12:44.960 a judge, while an immigrant that came in without an inspection, 225 00:12:45.240 --> 00:12:47.639 now the immigration just says, I won't even hear the case. 226 00:12:47.679 --> 00:12:48.600 I don't have jurisdiction. 227 00:12:48.919 --> 00:12:51.120 So I think that that is the major driving factor 228 00:12:51.120 --> 00:12:53.960 on why we're seeing the uptick. And also I think 229 00:12:54.000 --> 00:12:58.120 it's a premeditated strategy, because I believe. I mean, I 230 00:12:58.120 --> 00:12:59.720 can tell you a lot of stories that I don't 231 00:12:59.720 --> 00:13:02.600 want to ramble, but I've had It's happened several times 232 00:13:02.639 --> 00:13:05.240 where a family who entered through the border under one 233 00:13:05.279 --> 00:13:07.440 of these Biden programs, whether it be CDP WANT or 234 00:13:07.480 --> 00:13:10.799 whether Baffley that's pending a case before the immigration court, 235 00:13:11.120 --> 00:13:12.960 they show up to a nice check in and they 236 00:13:13.000 --> 00:13:15.600 detain the wife and not the husband, or they detained 237 00:13:15.600 --> 00:13:18.759 the husband and not the wife, and we think, what's 238 00:13:18.759 --> 00:13:21.600 the reasoning behind that is we believe that it's the 239 00:13:21.639 --> 00:13:24.159 administration is pressuring people to give up on their case 240 00:13:24.360 --> 00:13:28.559 and to leave, and that's something I don't think is right, and. 241 00:13:28.559 --> 00:13:31.120 Experts have told me that that's also seen in how 242 00:13:31.919 --> 00:13:37.159 arrests are up and detention centers meanwhile, are already overcrowded 243 00:13:37.240 --> 00:13:42.200 and understaffed. And in Texas, detention centers have been a 244 00:13:42.240 --> 00:13:47.840 big focus lately because the newest and biggest detention center 245 00:13:47.960 --> 00:13:52.480 called Camp East Montana in Fort Bliss, has had three 246 00:13:52.559 --> 00:13:57.240 deaths in the last two months, and the most recent 247 00:13:57.360 --> 00:14:01.200 death was of a thirty six year old man from Nicaragua. 248 00:14:01.559 --> 00:14:05.039 His name is Victor, and he was detained in Minneapolis, 249 00:14:05.120 --> 00:14:09.519 and I says his death was a presumed suicide, but 250 00:14:09.840 --> 00:14:13.200 that's still under investigation. And one of the cases that 251 00:14:13.240 --> 00:14:18.279 really put attention on how people end up dying in 252 00:14:18.320 --> 00:14:22.600 ice custody is the case of Heraldo Luna Scampos. He 253 00:14:22.720 --> 00:14:26.600 was fifty five and he's Cuban, and initially, when he 254 00:14:26.639 --> 00:14:31.279 died on January third, Ice characterized his death as a 255 00:14:31.360 --> 00:14:36.480 medical distress, but the Washington Post recently published a story 256 00:14:36.879 --> 00:14:39.480 about how the family is saying that the El Paso 257 00:14:39.639 --> 00:14:44.120 Medical Examiner is saying that preliminary reports on his death 258 00:14:44.240 --> 00:14:46.840 show that he may have died because of a homicide, 259 00:14:47.279 --> 00:14:49.879 that he wasn't able to breathe because something was like 260 00:14:50.399 --> 00:14:55.120 choking him. But the autopsy, the official autopsy, has not 261 00:14:55.159 --> 00:14:59.440 been reported yet. But days after that story, the AP 262 00:14:59.679 --> 00:15:03.159 report did that Ice is now claiming that his death 263 00:15:03.440 --> 00:15:07.919 was a suicide attempt. But a detainee who witnessed the 264 00:15:08.000 --> 00:15:11.519 death in the camp said that he died while his 265 00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:15.320 hands were handcuffed. And so the big question is if 266 00:15:15.360 --> 00:15:18.679 is is saying that he died because of a suicide attempt, 267 00:15:18.720 --> 00:15:21.480 how did he do that while he was handcuffed? And 268 00:15:21.519 --> 00:15:24.759 so we're still waiting on that official autopsy report from 269 00:15:24.799 --> 00:15:28.080 the medical examiner to see whether he died because of 270 00:15:28.519 --> 00:15:32.159 a homicide or suicide. But it's really calling attention to 271 00:15:32.600 --> 00:15:36.159 the conditions at this new camp. It's called Camp East 272 00:15:37.120 --> 00:15:40.600 Camp East Montana, and it's in El Paso, and it's 273 00:15:40.600 --> 00:15:44.200 not really a center. It's this huge, like sprawling tent 274 00:15:45.519 --> 00:15:48.960 where you know, that's kind of mostly how I prefers 275 00:15:49.039 --> 00:15:51.840 to have these detention centers. 276 00:15:52.360 --> 00:15:55.279 And and you know, I know that there's also you know, 277 00:15:55.320 --> 00:15:57.759 a center in Harlingen as well. I mean, Paul, what 278 00:15:57.840 --> 00:16:01.000 are you do you have clients who are you know, 279 00:16:01.600 --> 00:16:04.360 passing through these areas. Have you heard at all about 280 00:16:04.440 --> 00:16:08.840 you know, what the experience of people in these facilities is. 281 00:16:10.080 --> 00:16:12.080 Yeah, I've had I have several clients. 282 00:16:12.080 --> 00:16:14.639 Now we actually have a client that is in East Fontana, 283 00:16:14.919 --> 00:16:19.279 also imported Isabelle that's down south near Harlingen, in Carnes, 284 00:16:19.399 --> 00:16:21.360 south of San Antonio, and the several ones that are 285 00:16:21.399 --> 00:16:23.120 north of Houston, Livingston and Conro. 286 00:16:24.120 --> 00:16:27.519 And you know, we receive different reports. 287 00:16:27.600 --> 00:16:30.080 You know, we have some clients saying that they're treated badly, 288 00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:31.360 others that they're treated well. 289 00:16:32.320 --> 00:16:35.320 And in essence, I think that the biggest thing is. 290 00:16:37.039 --> 00:16:39.159 Yeah, in essence, the biggest thing, I think it's the 291 00:16:39.240 --> 00:16:41.919 time that it takes them to fight the case, maybe 292 00:16:41.960 --> 00:16:44.120 months that they spend in detention, even for the cases 293 00:16:44.159 --> 00:16:46.039 that we have one where they're ultimately released. 294 00:16:46.399 --> 00:16:48.799 I think that's also you know, a pretty huge concern. 295 00:16:49.759 --> 00:16:56.120 Okay, what about just like the experience of immigrants in 296 00:16:56.159 --> 00:16:57.879 Texas right now? You know, I mean, there are the 297 00:16:57.879 --> 00:16:59.960 people are who are in these facilities, there are people 298 00:17:00.080 --> 00:17:04.279 who being picked up. I mean when you talk to 299 00:17:04.599 --> 00:17:06.880 just folks, whether it's Calleen and your reporting or Paul 300 00:17:06.920 --> 00:17:08.880 and your legal work, I mean, where are you hearing from? 301 00:17:09.400 --> 00:17:11.119 You know what it's like to be a part of 302 00:17:11.160 --> 00:17:12.680 these communities right now. 303 00:17:13.839 --> 00:17:16.279 And that's also very sad. I can add to that. 304 00:17:16.920 --> 00:17:19.000 I heard a comment which is the first time I've 305 00:17:19.000 --> 00:17:22.000 heard it in you well ever, I think my family 306 00:17:22.119 --> 00:17:24.559 is originally from Venezuela. I was born in Madcaigro when 307 00:17:24.599 --> 00:17:27.240 I grew up here in Houston, and then I hear 308 00:17:27.279 --> 00:17:29.799 a lot of the Venezuelan's clients saying that this reminds 309 00:17:29.799 --> 00:17:32.359 me of Venezuela. That the things that they see on 310 00:17:32.400 --> 00:17:35.200 the news about the ice rays armed civilians is what 311 00:17:35.240 --> 00:17:37.440 they would call like a group that has done a 312 00:17:37.480 --> 00:17:41.000 lot of harm. Of course it's a different situation, but 313 00:17:41.079 --> 00:17:45.160 still it's like the fear that people live with knowing that, look, 314 00:17:45.279 --> 00:17:47.759 if I'm trying to follow the rules, I'm following my case, 315 00:17:47.799 --> 00:17:50.559 I'm attending their hearings, the or I'm just going to 316 00:17:50.599 --> 00:17:53.640 work the fear that they live in by just doing, 317 00:17:53.680 --> 00:17:55.759 you know, going about their everyday life is something that's 318 00:17:55.799 --> 00:17:59.160 big and yeah, it is affecting a lot of people. 319 00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:01.839 So I think there's an increased fear. Even for the people, 320 00:18:01.920 --> 00:18:04.160 let's say they have been granted asylum or that have 321 00:18:04.480 --> 00:18:06.319 green cards. They call me and asked me, is it 322 00:18:06.400 --> 00:18:08.160 safe for me to travel because I don't want to 323 00:18:08.240 --> 00:18:10.839 risk my future here in the US one they've already 324 00:18:10.839 --> 00:18:14.359 won their case, and I think, yeah, So that's what 325 00:18:14.400 --> 00:18:16.720 we've been hearing a lot about lately. 326 00:18:16.839 --> 00:18:19.799 Just out of curiosity. What are you saying to those 327 00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:21.400 clients when they ask you this question. 328 00:18:22.319 --> 00:18:23.920 So it depends on the case. 329 00:18:23.960 --> 00:18:26.839 Specifically for people that have already won their case, what 330 00:18:26.880 --> 00:18:28.880 I usually tell them is that you carry copies of 331 00:18:29.000 --> 00:18:32.680 certain documents with you to show. I have had several 332 00:18:32.680 --> 00:18:34.920 clients that already want asylum get picked up and then 333 00:18:34.960 --> 00:18:38.759 released the next day, So that is happy, you know, 334 00:18:39.000 --> 00:18:41.559 but it's basically so that they're able to show an 335 00:18:41.640 --> 00:18:44.400 officer exactly, you know, where their status is. We've also 336 00:18:44.640 --> 00:18:47.599 saw a video the other day of a Cuban immigrant 337 00:18:47.599 --> 00:18:49.759 that already had his green card have an interaction with 338 00:18:49.839 --> 00:18:51.759 ICE who tells him he's not in the system. He's 339 00:18:51.759 --> 00:18:53.640 getting picked up, and once he shows him the green card, 340 00:18:53.640 --> 00:18:57.319 they let him leave. So for those people you know 341 00:18:57.440 --> 00:18:59.799 that don't have any criminal charges that whether there's not 342 00:18:59.839 --> 00:19:03.519 a risk, I usually give them advice around that, but 343 00:19:03.960 --> 00:19:07.119 I would you know, it's that Night Taylor, case by 344 00:19:07.160 --> 00:19:10.559 case specifically for people that might be at more risk 345 00:19:10.599 --> 00:19:11.079 of detention. 346 00:19:12.039 --> 00:19:14.960 Yeah, And the Trump administration is you know, for people 347 00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:18.599 with green cards and asylum and asylum seekers, it's about 348 00:19:18.640 --> 00:19:22.240 making it difficult to live here because, for example, he 349 00:19:22.359 --> 00:19:28.000 recently said that people who are DOC recipients or asylum 350 00:19:28.160 --> 00:19:31.319 in the asylum process can no longer renew their com 351 00:19:31.759 --> 00:19:35.599 commercial driver's license, and so that's really going to rattle 352 00:19:35.680 --> 00:19:40.119 the trucking and trade industry. And for students, DOCA recipients 353 00:19:40.160 --> 00:19:44.319 can no longer access in state tuition. And so it's 354 00:19:44.359 --> 00:19:47.480 like policies like this that you know, it's pushing people 355 00:19:47.480 --> 00:19:51.759 into hiding even though they have tps or are asylum 356 00:19:51.759 --> 00:19:57.480 seekers or DOC recipients. Everyone you know is fearful and worried. 357 00:19:58.119 --> 00:19:59.920 What are you hearing, Colleen about, you know, from the 358 00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:05.319 Trump administration, from government officials about you know, is you know, 359 00:20:06.200 --> 00:20:10.119 when people raise these concerns, what's the reaction to that. 360 00:20:11.839 --> 00:20:18.440 I think it's been such a mutual this year that 361 00:20:21.240 --> 00:20:22.920 I was trying to do a story at the end 362 00:20:22.960 --> 00:20:25.240 of the year, trying to reach out to people from 363 00:20:26.200 --> 00:20:30.839 the nineteen countries with travel bands because people from those 364 00:20:30.920 --> 00:20:36.160 nineteen countries can no longer move forward in their legal process, 365 00:20:36.200 --> 00:20:40.480 their cases were being paused. And so I live in Houston, 366 00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:44.039 and I was certain that I would find someone who 367 00:20:44.079 --> 00:20:46.000 would be able to speak to me from one of 368 00:20:46.039 --> 00:20:50.519 those nineteen countries about their case. And Paul, I even 369 00:20:50.640 --> 00:20:52.599 asked you so many times to see if you could 370 00:20:52.640 --> 00:20:55.440 connect me to someone, and no one wanted to talk 371 00:20:55.480 --> 00:20:59.519 to me at all. And so I think politicians are, 372 00:21:00.799 --> 00:21:03.759 depending on where they're at, are usually where they don't 373 00:21:03.799 --> 00:21:07.519 want to speak about it, except for Mayor John Whitmeyer, 374 00:21:07.759 --> 00:21:13.160 who in Houston talked earlier about how he's working that 375 00:21:13.160 --> 00:21:17.440 that Houston, the Houston Police Department is collaborating with ICE 376 00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:22.920 to place ICE detainers on people at the jail. But 377 00:21:23.559 --> 00:21:25.640 it's been it's been quiet. 378 00:21:26.440 --> 00:21:28.599 I think, Like I mean, I've certainly read stories, I 379 00:21:28.599 --> 00:21:31.200 mean some in the Tribune, but also generally about just 380 00:21:31.279 --> 00:21:35.000 you know, the Trump administration early on sort of undid 381 00:21:35.119 --> 00:21:40.640 the protections that said like that limited the arrests of 382 00:21:40.680 --> 00:21:44.480 immigrants in sensitive locations schools, churches, hospitals. So I think 383 00:21:44.519 --> 00:21:47.559 a lot of this is sort of part of the plan. 384 00:21:47.640 --> 00:21:50.559 I think, like, while there's been some blowback to some 385 00:21:50.599 --> 00:21:55.240 of these policies, that generally speaking, like when we hear 386 00:21:55.279 --> 00:21:58.319 stories of immigrant communities where people are not going to church, 387 00:21:58.400 --> 00:22:00.599 or they're not seeking out medical care, or they're worried 388 00:22:00.599 --> 00:22:02.680 about sending their kids to school or travel too the 389 00:22:02.680 --> 00:22:06.759 grocery store. Like, I think the optics of these street 390 00:22:06.799 --> 00:22:09.720 raids and things like that are sort of serving the 391 00:22:09.759 --> 00:22:12.880 purposes of the administration. You know, the administration at least 392 00:22:12.920 --> 00:22:15.920 currently is like on board with how that is played. 393 00:22:15.720 --> 00:22:20.519 Right, the idea of making the country a less hospitable 394 00:22:20.559 --> 00:22:23.839 place for people to come, you know, without authorization in 395 00:22:23.920 --> 00:22:28.039 order to come, right, And if that's the goal, then 396 00:22:28.240 --> 00:22:30.400 some of that uncertainty, some of that feeling of you 397 00:22:30.440 --> 00:22:34.000 can't travel and all those things is further accomplishing that goal. 398 00:22:34.319 --> 00:22:34.480 Right. 399 00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:38.440 I think the political question that we will get some 400 00:22:38.559 --> 00:22:42.079 insight into, you know, this year, but probably not fully 401 00:22:42.160 --> 00:22:45.599