Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Texas Tribune trip Cast for Tuesday,
January twentieth, twenty twenty six. I am Matthew Watkins, editor
in chief of the Texas Tribune, joined as usual by
Eleanor Klebanoff. Hello, Eleanor, Hello Matthew. How are you doing well?
Just got back late last night from a family trip
to New York City.
Speaker 2: Oh fun, where it snowed.
Speaker 1: The entire time we were there. Is my daughter's thirteenth birthday,
So nice.
Speaker 3: Were your Texas kids very freaked out by the snow?
Speaker 1: They loved it. We walked through Central Park in like
a driving snowstorm, and they followed from behind me like
ten feet the entire time, pelting me with snow like
the entire the dream walk.
Speaker 2: So yeah, it was great.
Speaker 3: Every thirteen year old's birthday, wish.
Speaker 1: That's right, yeah, right. This week we are going to
be talking about immigration enforcement in ice in Texas, and
we are joined by two guests to discuss that. First
from the Texas Tribune making her trip cast debut, Houston
based reporter Colleen de Guzman. Hello, Colleen, Hello, it's good
to be here. We are excited to have you, and
we also have a Houston based although currently located in
San Antonio, immigration attorney Paul Pirella.
Speaker 2: Hey, Paul, Hi, thank you, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1: Yes, thank you for being here. So, like I said,
we are going to be talking about immigration here. Of course,
for years and especially during the Biden administration, the Texas
Mexico border has sort of been the focal point of
our federal immigration conversation. But we are now in year
two of the second Trump administration, and during the first year,
the nation's eye kind of turned a little bit more
toward the interior, right, A lot of things have slowed
down at the border, and a lot of the action,
a lot of the tension, at least in the national
media has been in places like La Portland, Minneapolis, things
like that. But Texas has remained a hotbed of immigration
enforcement and activity, the Houston area being one of the
most active places for ice arrests in the country. And
so today we're going to talk a little bit about
just sort of what's happening in Texas, how does it
compare to the rest of the country, and what is
the experience, you know, on the ground for people living
through this every day. Paul, I want to start with you,
and before we sort of talk about you know, ice
and everything like that, I want to just talk ask
just sort of about your role in this work. You
are an immigration attorney. You you know, work with clients
I know. But tell me kind of what your job
has been this past year in this sort of new
era of immigration enforcement.
Speaker 4: Of course, no, and thank you. So we have a
small immigration firm in southwest Houston. It's just two attorneys,
me in an associate whose name is Carlos Gutierres, and
basically we do primarily we do immigration court work, so
deportation defense, and we also do a lot of family
based immigration with a little bit of employment based like
visas and things sprinkled in. So what I can tell
you is that in the last year we have had
quite a big uptick in immigration enforcement basically defense work.
So there's been a lot more cases involving detainees and
a lot more cases of people getting sent to court
and then we defend them in removal proceedings. I can
tell you to talk about numbers, like I used to
do maybe one or two detainee cases a month, and
then in the last few months it's been basically more
than one call a day from some by asking for
a consultation because they have a family member or friend
or somebody's being detained.
Speaker 2: So I can speak actually quite a lot about that. Okay,
very good.
Speaker 1: So let's now let's take a step back and just
talk about what Texas is experiencing. Colleen, you had a
story that ran I believed yesterday kind of laying out
the groundwork here. What has immigration enforcement in Texas looked
like over this past year.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so the Trump administration, as we've seen in Texas
is basically going all in on slowing down both do
process for immigration and then also going all in on
finding and documented immigrants within the country and within the state,
already resting and deporting them. And like you said, what's
different from his first term is that this year and
this last year that we've seen is that they're really
focusing on finding people at their work sites immigration where
it's parking lots, and their homes. People have reported seeing
ICE agents at federal buildings in Olpaso, immigration courthouses in
San Antonio, and probation offices in Dallas. And so what
we've really seen is that you know, they're looking everywhere
for undocumented immigrants. And it's caused this huge wave of
this new fear among undocumented immigrants across.
Speaker 1: The state, right, Paul, I mean, does that align with
sort of the clients you've been hearing from, is it?
I think one of the things that we sort of
have understood about immigration enforcement in recent years, particularly under
the Biden administration, but even maybe before that, is you
would see a lot of things, you know, ice attentions
and local jails and things like that. Are you seeing
more people who are being picked up, you know, at
their place of work or you know, having ice knock
on their doors or or or that type of enforcement.
Speaker 2: Yes, I am.
Speaker 4: Unfortunately, so we've had a couple in the last month,
well several in the last month. Well, one of the
things that was a major change for me is that
we had people picked up at checkpoints, you know, between
here San Antonio and the border. Let's say Brownsville or McCallan.
There's some checkpoints about about one hundred miles from the border,
and in the past, people let's say, with pending cases
that had entered on visas, that had applied for asylum,
they were usually allowed to cross freely through those checkpoints
as long as they don't cross outside of the United
States while they're waiting for the case to be adjudicated
by either USCIS or by the immigration courts, as long
as they had status. And there's been even people in
that case with absolutely no criminal history picked up at
the checkpoints. I had a console with a person from
Minnesota actually last Friday, where they showed me pictures of
their truck and it has the glasses Saturday in. We're
still trying to find out more information about that. But
what the people that were witnessed to the event said
that happened was that ICE came in and broke broke
the dential clients windows and drag them out of his car.
Speaker 2: So that's very unfortunate.
Speaker 4: I can also say that I've seen, even though I've
seen it less, I've seen people being dragged out of court.
In one case in Dallas, Texas a few months ago,
I think in the end of November, there was It
wasn't one of my clients, but I was there in
Dallas with the client in the courthouse in downtown and
the ICE agents would wait until after the hearing was over,
and then they took several people in front of me,
in front of women in front of children.
Speaker 2: People were crying.
Speaker 4: It's one of the most I guess, horrible things that
I've seen in my practice.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 3: I feel like, and you're sort of alluding to this
that during previous administrations, even previous Republican administrations, the focus
was really on like part of the reason there was
this partnership with the jails was people who were you know,
alleged criminals or people who were you know, we would
hear these sort of horror stories of you know, undocumented
immigrants who were accused of really you know, horrific crimes
and saying, you know, we need to deport those people
because they're you know, their primary crime was being here,
you know, without documentation. Their primary crime was something else.
Now it feels like with these street raids and showing
up at you know, even court hearings where people are
there because of their documentation status, not because of their
other crimes. That's a real pivot. I mean, Colleen, what
are we hearing from like elected officials from the Trump
administrations or talking about that shift.
Speaker 5: From public officials from politictions. MM. So there's been frustration
about how the Trump administration is basically making these moves
and decisions without much approval from anyone. For example, earlier
last year, the Trump admission, the Trump administration made two
really big steps and basically forcing a bottleneck at federal
detention centers and courthouses, like about one hundred immigration judges
left voluntarily or forcibly from their benches last year, and
many were fired by the Trump administration, basically slowing down
the process of immigrants going through their legal process. And
I'm sure Paul, you could talk about this part. And
he also barred migrants from accessing bond hearings, and that
basically means that all detained migrants have to stay in
detention centers for the duration of their removal proceedings now,
and that basically removes judges from being involved in whether
an immigrant has to be detained. And an expert told
me that that basically makes ice both the jailer and
the judge, since there's no longer a review of migrants detention.
Speaker 1: Well, can you help me I kind of understand. I
mean what you have said at the start of this
about you know, one to two cases a month turning
into you know, basically getting a phone call almost every
day from from clients aligns with you know what we
hear from a lot of immigration attorneys. You know, the
ability of people to find pro bono work is incredibly hard.
Right now, the all the sort of immigration bar reports
being the sort of you know, swamped with cases right now.
I'm going to quote a line from Colleen's story here,
which is said, daily irs in Texas have jumped from
an average of eighty five per day during the final
eighteen months of the Biden administration to one hundred and
seventy six per day in the first six months under Trump.
We're talking about a double a doubling essentially, But what
you were sort of describing sounds like far more than
a doubling of calls from people sort of workware services.
Can you help me understand, like, what's is there something
else going on here? Like what is it? What is
it that's happening with you in your office and the
experience of people reaching out to lawyers that's causing this
to be such a dramatic increase.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and Colleen actually alluded to it right now. It's
the ability to get an immigration bond. So there are
two specific cases that came out from the Board of
Immigration Appeals last year. A matter of q Lee was
around May, and then matter of Yehudetdo was in September.
But the effect of those cases was that if you
did not come in with a visa, so not through
a parole, through CBP, one through the border, and definitely
not if you entered without inspection. If you did not
comment with a visa, you can't get an immigration bond.
The EOIR, which is the immigration courts, the Executive Office
of Immigration Review, has basically held or they received instructions
from the Chief of Immigration judge saying that they don't
have jurisdiction to hear bond cases. So in the past,
when somebody would go to a nice check in, there
was really minimal risk of being detained if they didn't
have a criminal history, because if they were detained, they
could get a bond and still be able to fight
out the case outside. What's happened with this has been
that drastic change in law. It's been litigated in California
also here in Texas. But because of that, so if
you go and then that's for one and then the
second the things that you guys said about where the
arrests take place has increased highly. I think the number
of immigrants that are detained here in Texas, and a
lot of people basically in the face of that, they
get scared, and a lot of people are also foregoing
the rights, kind of like Colleen mussaying, because it is
sort of an infringement and due process that somebody with
very strong criminal accusations, maybe even you know, aggravated assault
or murder will most of the time be able to
at least apply for a bond hearing in front of
a judge, while an immigrant that came in without an inspection,
now the immigration just says, I won't even hear the case.
Speaker 2: I don't have jurisdiction.
Speaker 4: So I think that that is the major driving factor
on why we're seeing the uptick. And also I think
it's a premeditated strategy, because I believe. I mean, I
can tell you a lot of stories that I don't
want to ramble, but I've had It's happened several times
where a family who entered through the border under one
of these Biden programs, whether it be CDP WANT or
whether Baffley that's pending a case before the immigration court,
they show up to a nice check in and they
detain the wife and not the husband, or they detained
the husband and not the wife, and we think, what's
the reasoning behind that is we believe that it's the
administration is pressuring people to give up on their case
and to leave, and that's something I don't think is right, and.
Speaker 5: Experts have told me that that's also seen in how
arrests are up and detention centers meanwhile, are already overcrowded
and understaffed. And in Texas, detention centers have been a
big focus lately because the newest and biggest detention center
called Camp East Montana in Fort Bliss, has had three
deaths in the last two months, and the most recent
death was of a thirty six year old man from Nicaragua.
His name is Victor, and he was detained in Minneapolis,
and I says his death was a presumed suicide, but
that's still under investigation. And one of the cases that
really put attention on how people end up dying in
ice custody is the case of Heraldo Luna Scampos. He
was fifty five and he's Cuban, and initially, when he
died on January third, Ice characterized his death as a
medical distress, but the Washington Post recently published a story
about how the family is saying that the El Paso
Medical Examiner is saying that preliminary reports on his death
show that he may have died because of a homicide,
that he wasn't able to breathe because something was like
choking him. But the autopsy, the official autopsy, has not
been reported yet. But days after that story, the AP
report did that Ice is now claiming that his death
was a suicide attempt. But a detainee who witnessed the
death in the camp said that he died while his
hands were handcuffed. And so the big question is if
is is saying that he died because of a suicide attempt,
how did he do that while he was handcuffed? And
so we're still waiting on that official autopsy report from
the medical examiner to see whether he died because of
a homicide or suicide. But it's really calling attention to
the conditions at this new camp. It's called Camp East
Camp East Montana, and it's in El Paso, and it's
not really a center. It's this huge, like sprawling tent
where you know, that's kind of mostly how I prefers
to have these detention centers.
Speaker 1: And and you know, I know that there's also you know,
a center in Harlingen as well. I mean, Paul, what
are you do you have clients who are you know,
passing through these areas. Have you heard at all about
you know, what the experience of people in these facilities is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've had I have several clients.
Speaker 4: Now we actually have a client that is in East Fontana,
also imported Isabelle that's down south near Harlingen, in Carnes,
south of San Antonio, and the several ones that are
north of Houston, Livingston and Conro.
Speaker 2: And you know, we receive different reports.
Speaker 4: You know, we have some clients saying that they're treated badly,
others that they're treated well.
Speaker 2: And in essence, I think that the biggest thing is.
Speaker 4: Yeah, in essence, the biggest thing, I think it's the
time that it takes them to fight the case, maybe
months that they spend in detention, even for the cases
that we have one where they're ultimately released.
Speaker 2: I think that's also you know, a pretty huge concern.
Speaker 1: Okay, what about just like the experience of immigrants in
Texas right now? You know, I mean, there are the
people are who are in these facilities, there are people
who being picked up. I mean when you talk to
just folks, whether it's Calleen and your reporting or Paul
and your legal work, I mean, where are you hearing from?
You know what it's like to be a part of
these communities right now.
Speaker 2: And that's also very sad. I can add to that.
Speaker 4: I heard a comment which is the first time I've
heard it in you well ever, I think my family
is originally from Venezuela. I was born in Madcaigro when
I grew up here in Houston, and then I hear
a lot of the Venezuelan's clients saying that this reminds
me of Venezuela. That the things that they see on
the news about the ice rays armed civilians is what
they would call like a group that has done a
lot of harm. Of course it's a different situation, but
still it's like the fear that people live with knowing that, look,
if I'm trying to follow the rules, I'm following my case,
I'm attending their hearings, the or I'm just going to
work the fear that they live in by just doing,
you know, going about their everyday life is something that's
big and yeah, it is affecting a lot of people.
So I think there's an increased fear. Even for the people,
let's say they have been granted asylum or that have
green cards. They call me and asked me, is it
safe for me to travel because I don't want to
risk my future here in the US one they've already
won their case, and I think, yeah, So that's what
we've been hearing a lot about lately.
Speaker 1: Just out of curiosity. What are you saying to those
clients when they ask you this question.
Speaker 2: So it depends on the case.
Speaker 4: Specifically for people that have already won their case, what
I usually tell them is that you carry copies of
certain documents with you to show. I have had several
clients that already want asylum get picked up and then
released the next day, So that is happy, you know,
but it's basically so that they're able to show an
officer exactly, you know, where their status is. We've also
saw a video the other day of a Cuban immigrant
that already had his green card have an interaction with
ICE who tells him he's not in the system. He's
getting picked up, and once he shows him the green card,
they let him leave. So for those people you know
that don't have any criminal charges that whether there's not
a risk, I usually give them advice around that, but
I would you know, it's that Night Taylor, case by
case specifically for people that might be at more risk
of detention.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And the Trump administration is you know, for people
with green cards and asylum and asylum seekers, it's about
making it difficult to live here because, for example, he
recently said that people who are DOC recipients or asylum
in the asylum process can no longer renew their com
commercial driver's license, and so that's really going to rattle
the trucking and trade industry. And for students, DOCA recipients
can no longer access in state tuition. And so it's
like policies like this that you know, it's pushing people
into hiding even though they have tps or are asylum
seekers or DOC recipients. Everyone you know is fearful and worried.
Speaker 1: What are you hearing, Colleen about, you know, from the
Trump administration, from government officials about you know, is you know,
when people raise these concerns, what's the reaction to that.
Speaker 5: I think it's been such a mutual this year that
I was trying to do a story at the end
of the year, trying to reach out to people from
the nineteen countries with travel bands because people from those
nineteen countries can no longer move forward in their legal process,
their cases were being paused. And so I live in Houston,
and I was certain that I would find someone who
would be able to speak to me from one of
those nineteen countries about their case. And Paul, I even
asked you so many times to see if you could
connect me to someone, and no one wanted to talk
to me at all. And so I think politicians are,
depending on where they're at, are usually where they don't
want to speak about it, except for Mayor John Whitmeyer,
who in Houston talked earlier about how he's working that
that Houston, the Houston Police Department is collaborating with ICE
to place ICE detainers on people at the jail. But
it's been it's been quiet.
Speaker 3: I think, Like I mean, I've certainly read stories, I
mean some in the Tribune, but also generally about just
you know, the Trump administration early on sort of undid
the protections that said like that limited the arrests of
immigrants in sensitive locations schools, churches, hospitals. So I think
a lot of this is sort of part of the plan.
I think, like, while there's been some blowback to some
of these policies, that generally speaking, like when we hear
stories of immigrant communities where people are not going to church,
or they're not seeking out medical care, or they're worried
about sending their kids to school or travel too the
grocery store. Like, I think the optics of these street
raids and things like that are sort of serving the
purposes of the administration. You know, the administration at least
currently is like on board with how that is played.
Speaker 1: Right, the idea of making the country a less hospitable
place for people to come, you know, without authorization in
order to come, right, And if that's the goal, then
some of that uncertainty, some of that feeling of you
can't travel and all those things is further accomplishing that goal.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 3: I think the political question that we will get some
insight into, you know, this year, but probably not fully
until the next presidential election, is, you know, how is that,
you know, how unpopular are these policies. You know, I
think that there's a lot of people who particularly among
like Latino voters, who have swung pretty strongly towards President
Trump in the twenty twenty four election.
Speaker 2: You know, is this.
Speaker 3: Blowing up in Republicans faces or is it not? As
you know, people are very outraged about it.
Speaker 2: Is it going to affect how they vote?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean, Colleen, it's been interesting, just as you mentioned
Mayor John Whitmyer and Houston an area. You know, he
is a of course a Democrat elected to a nonpartisan office,
but in a city that has at least in recent
elections voted democratically. You know, that's that's been an interesting
political topic to watch in that city in particular.
Speaker 5: Mm hm. And you know, Houston was home to one
of the first big raids of the Trump administration. I
think January or February there was a huge raid in
Colony Ridge, which is a huge neighborhood outside of Houston
where you know a lot of Latinos live, and so
you know, there's outrage here in Houston, but there's also
on the local level a sense of cooperation. Houston Police
Department is working alongside ice and John Whitmeyer is not,
you know, in the way of that, and the state
is also not in the way that the state is
collaborating with ICE as well, and so that's kind of
put Houston in a different position than other more blue
states at cities.
Speaker 2: Paul.
Speaker 1: I mean the other thing that has, of course come up.
You mentioned the client in Minnesota who had their windows broken.
Of course, Minnesota has become, you know, a powder keg
in this world, and you know a lot of concerns
there and in other places about you know, people ICE
agents wearing masks, behaving very aggressively in their raids and
things like that. I feel like, you know, there have
been protests against that in places like Houston other Texas cities,
but I feel like we are hearing fewer stories of
that kind of behavior in Texas. Is that because it's
not happening as much here? Is it because for another reason?
I mean, are those are you seeing signs of those
tactics here in Texas? I guess is a better way
of putting that question.
Speaker 4: I haven't seen anybody like like the store in Minnesota
where they're dragged out of their car where it's broken into.
But we have heard stories of like bounty counters, especially
in the area north of Texas called the datos Houston.
I think it's what they are used to call where
they're basically patrolling their people with masks and stuff that
will end up, like you know, catching somebody that they
think might be an immigrant without status and bringing them ties.
But the majority of the rest that I'm seeing is
in Houston is at the jails, you know, after the
ice attainers, it's crossing the vorder checkpoints whenever people are
traveling from Houston. Like I said, many people not knowing
that they're at risk at all because they have permission
to be here, they have work permits, driver's licenses, they
travel from Houston to the border or back. They're being
detained there and at ICE check ins. So I think
with that, I mean, I think that that's the vast
majority of the arrests that I see around here in Texas.
Speaker 2: And then at the courts.
Speaker 4: It was funny one of you mentioned San Antonio earlier
today where I am now, and then I just had
my friend just showed me the ICE bus that's outside
that the San Antonio Demigration court that's here in downtown,
and then where you can see it visibly, it's parked outside.
It's a big white bus. And then Unfortunately, that is
something that is still going on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, two stats, calling from your story. These are national stats,
not just in Texas, but under the Biden administration, eighty
percent of ICE arrests came from county jails, in federal
and state prisons. Under Trump, that number has dropped to
sixty four point one, right, which would indicate that a
higher percentage of the arrest and of course we know
that the arrests have increased significantly have come from you know,
outside the criminal justice system, outside that you know, going
after people who have already been arrested, or you know,
are alleged to be criminals, or any of those types
of things. Similarly, this is actually a Texas stat. Fifty
eight percent of people ICE arrested under Biden had criminal convictions,
compared to forty two percent under Trump. So that another
kind of piece of ten.
Speaker 3: Half of the people who are being arrested now have
crimes other than immigration offenses.
Speaker 5: And I wrote a story earlier this last or last
year about how, you know, the victims of criminal cases
are being deported Meanwhile the person who you know did
the crime is able to stay and experience due process.
And so it was just like a sign of the times.
Speaker 3: I think like part of the goal I think explicitly
in many cases of the Trump administration is to get
people to self deport, to just leave the country. Paul
and Colleen, are you guys hearing from people that are
taking that option? Is that you know, having that ripple effect?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it is.
Speaker 4: I can speak to my practice, you know, a lot
of the times, the first thing we do when someone
calls us to do a consult where we try to
speak to the family of the person detained, and often
they will ask us to speak to the client. We
do a confidential call with the metic Detention Center before
we ever move on with the case.
Speaker 2: And then a lot of the people are hearing.
Speaker 4: Once they hear I don't have well that the government
takes a position, I don't have a right to an
immigration bond. If I'm going to fight my case, I
might be here months. If I appeal, I could be
here more than a year. Then a lot of people
are then taking the decision to self deport and try
to go somewhere else. I've had several Cuban clients that
chose not to fight their case be removed to Mexico
and then from there try to seek asylum in Spain
or in other places. So I think it is implicit
that that's basically the strategy that they're doing. I think,
like the Eleanor said, it's the optics, you know, if
the news well, basically, if all these things are done,
the raids, people have feared to even cross the border.
The number of crossings with that inspection has dropped to,
you know, numbers that we haven't seen in fifty years.
So people are not coming in, and then the ones
that are here, that came in in the last few years,
even that been here for a long time, are scared.
And some people have decided, you know, I went to USCIS,
my asylum case might have not got approved. I do
have a right to go before an immigration judge and
seek it. But I've also seen a lot of those
people decide, like, no, let me go try to seek
asylum somewhere else because they don't want to be at
risk of being detained and then sent back to Venezuela,
to Columbia, to Afghanistan and those things.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and Udiel, my colleague who's on parental right now.
Before he left, he did a really great story on
a mother who was detained and her and her husband
left Belize because of some death threats. And they've been
in the country for a long time, and they have
children who mixed status citizenship, and she was at a
detention center and contracted hepatitis there and so it just
showed how you know, she and they gave for tail
and all I believe for it, and so it just
got so difficult there that she decided to self deport
and her husband ended up following her and they had
to leave their children here. So they're back in Belize
right now. And it's just an example of how people
are being pushed to self deport. That's the goal, it
seems for Ice. In the Trump administration.
Speaker 4: There's another strategy that I wanted to mention to piggyback
off of that, and it's it's the removals to third countries.
I don't know if you guys have heard about that
in the news, but the Trump administration has also signed
several agreements and among those Acudor Duras Guatemala, where.
Speaker 2: Like they will get well.
Speaker 4: Basically, the crux of the agreement is if you're applying
for asylum here right then you came in through the
Southern border on most of them that if you do
not fear persecution in the third country which you might
have never been to, we can for go having to
even hear your silent case. So I've had that happened
already twice for on Dudas, and it's happening now more
for Ecuador with somebody from Venezuela or Nikadaigua, for example.
It's one of the cases that we're appealing where he
has a very strong as silent case.
Speaker 2: He was in the news his home. He was in
the news that his home.
Speaker 4: Was ransacked by the National Police or by the Pillar paramilitaries.
I'm sorry, and he had a lot of publications proof
of being a student organizer protest, and then the judge
didn't here is the silent case because DHS wanted to
remove him to on Doudas, where he has never been
and cannot prove that he will be persecuted there. So
we're appealing the legality of these agreements, and it's something
that's going on, but also that I guess the fear
of getting sent to a place I've never been before
is also being used against the asylum seeker to sort
of persuade them to give up on the claim to
and I think they've even said publicly, and I wouldn't
quote that because I don't remember the exact words that
they have to do some like the Trump administration that
said that they have to do something about the backlog
of all these cases of immigration court, which was about
four million, so like we can't give everybody doing process.
I remember hearing that in the news, but that was
the crux of what they said. So I think it
is being done deliberately and that these things are done
so well that in essence, it's it's basically taking away
a lot of the protections that people have, especially those
that are seeking aside.
Speaker 1: Well, I know it's hard to speak in too much
generalities because every client is different. Every client has individual
circumstances and factors that are you know, leading to the
decisions that they make. But I wonder if you could
just talk a little bit about the the decision making process,
the factors that people are having to consider, and just
you know, seems sort of obvious, but just the life
impact of being caught up in this system is having
on the people you're working with, Like what are you seeing,
how are you seeing people sort of experience this from
the sort of most human level.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's something that's it's really sad, really,
especially whenever it comes to the detentions without bond, because
in the past, you know, if a family member was detained,
even if they came in with that inspection, like I mentioned,
they could most of the time get a bond if
they weren't a flight risk, weren't a danger to a community,
were a threat to public safety. And then now what
happens is I have to have a conversation with that.
I've had many times with a mother that the children
are US citizens at home, maybe the mother does not
have status, or the spouse might have status, and they
detained the husband, the father, and now you say, well,
look there's a chance of him getting out, but it
will take a federal lawsuit if he fights his case,
you know, which he might have a case to fight.
Maybe a cancelation will remover or one of these other
benefits that it will be months in jail. You know,
that's something that affects them terribly because maybe the primary
provider is now detained, and how are they supposed to
provide for the family, for the kids to pay rent
to buy grown trees and then so that really puts
a lot of pressure on people. Have also seen people
on the human aspect that have built businesses, that have stores,
have construction companies, have a small businesses and contribute to
the economy of not only Houston, but like of the country.
And then now who's going to run the business where
or like another person that you know whose workers are
scared to come to work because they're scared the ice
is going to come, you know, like do a raid
at a construction sete.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: So it's it's really affecting people a lot. So in
the decision making process, they basically have to weigh and
I feel like it's my job to inform them before
you start, this is what we're getting into. And then
so that they're informed about whether or not I choose
to fight the case or not. And if you're going
to fight it, then you have to fight it with
everything you got. And if you choose not to that
the best thing for my family is is to leave,
then that's the decision that I have to respect from
the people that make it, you know, from the families
that are affected.
Speaker 1: All right, well, Pirella, I know you are very busy.
You you showed us that at the at the beginning
of this Thank you so much for taking the time
to talk us through this and share your experiences UH
And a big thank you as well to you Colleen
UH for for your coverage and for talking this through
eleanor great talking with you as talk to.
Speaker 2: You next week.
Speaker 1: And a big thank you to our producers Rob and Chris.
We will be back next week.
Speaker 4: M