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Speaker 2: Remaining and live man like this man letting butterfly flattening
Speaker 2: wing big down in our force.
Speaker 3: Man, it don't cause a tree fall, letting five thousand
Speaker 3: miles away. Man, nobody see nobody else you know? And
Speaker 3: you got back a night on the Pan. All right.
Speaker 2: After many technical difficulties, Nick, we're finally here. Thank you
Speaker 2: for bearing with me. So, Nick Griffin, welcome to the
Speaker 2: Jay Burton Show. How are you doing oh very well,
Speaker 2: Thank you very much.
Speaker 3: I'm looking forward to it.
Speaker 2: It's interesting because you're someone that I have from a
Speaker 2: distance followed for quite some time, remember hearing about you.
Speaker 2: I mean even going back to writings from the past
Speaker 2: twenty years, and I had no idea, to be perfectly honest,
Speaker 2: you were still around until I stumbled across your very
Speaker 2: very good substack. It's sort of the best thing about substack, right,
Speaker 2: it's sort of a collectionist of who's who over you know,
Speaker 2: the sort of great edge of things. And so obviously
Speaker 2: I'm familiar with who you are and what you've done,
Speaker 2: but some of my audience might not be. So who
Speaker 2: are you and what do you do.
Speaker 3: Well? I'm really the long term figure now in British nationalism.
Speaker 3: I joined the National Front, which at the time Britain's
Speaker 3: primary nationalist and especially anti immigration party, when I was
Speaker 3: fifteen in nineteen seventy four. Had actually been involved in
Speaker 3: the Conservative Party, our equivalent of your Republicans for a
Speaker 3: couple of years before that. So I've been involved in
Speaker 3: political campaigning for more than fifty years. I don't even
Speaker 3: feel at all, but there you go. Then I was
Speaker 3: involved in the National fronts, first of as an ordinary activist,
Speaker 3: then as a serious campaigner leader at one time, and
Speaker 3: then switched in the early nineteen nineties from the National
Speaker 3: Front which was finished to the British National Party, which
Speaker 3: I took from being a frankly bad electoral joke called
Speaker 3: bad political joke into being an organization which was the
Speaker 3: first serious electoral challenge in electoral insurgency against the uniparty
Speaker 3: in Britain from the right briddit they'd ever had. And
Speaker 3: for more than ten years, it's more than fourteen nearness
Speaker 3: in every single election in Britain there was whatever the
Speaker 3: main election issue was, plus the secondary thing was always
Speaker 3: about the British National Party and the threat of the
Speaker 3: British National Party. So we gave the political elite literally
Speaker 3: nightmares for more than ten years. And although in the
Speaker 3: end politically we failed, we were the ones who broke
Speaker 3: the logjam. Before we were around in a threat, the
Speaker 3: old parties were able simply not to talk about certain issues,
Speaker 3: particularly about immigration and the grooming gang scandal, and we
Speaker 3: forced them to talk about that because they realized if
Speaker 3: they wouldn't talk about it and at least pretend to
Speaker 3: think about doing something more people would turn to us.
Speaker 3: Even more important than that, in the course of blocking
Speaker 3: the British National Party, the BBC particularly but the whole
Speaker 3: of the liberal media actively promoted Nigel Farage on an
Speaker 3: amazing scale. It was frankly, it was almost obscene to
Speaker 3: have these anti British pro European Union organizations, especially the BBC,
Speaker 3: promoting Farage and it's quite open to block us. So
Speaker 3: the law of unintended consequences is a very powerful thing
Speaker 3: in politics. He do something for one purpose and you know,
Speaker 3: things happened as a consequence he didn't intend, and in
Speaker 3: this case, in blocking US, by boosting Farage in UKIP
Speaker 3: as it was at that time, they actually created a
Speaker 3: monster which in the enforced a referendum, got Brexit, arguably
Speaker 3: for good or ell therefore helped get Trump elected because
Speaker 3: in his first election campaign, Farage's presence and recent success
Speaker 3: was a very big thing, and basically it led to
Speaker 3: where we are today, which is, for now a year
Speaker 3: the Farag's new party, Reform has been leading the opinion polls,
Speaker 3: sometimes having almost as many people supporting it as both
Speaker 3: the previous parties of government that's in it, you know,
Speaker 3: the Labor Party and the Tories, your Democrats, your Republicans.
Speaker 3: This electual surgency sprang from the fact that the British
Speaker 3: National Party broke the mold.
Speaker 2: There are several things there that are interesting that you
Speaker 2: bring up. One of them is, look, I'm a distant observer, right,
Speaker 2: I am not on the ground in your nation, but
Speaker 2: there are certain things I pick up from across the Atlantic.
Speaker 2: And one of them, there's sort of this this rogue's gallery, right,
Speaker 2: this cast of characters that your media loves to hate. Obviously,
Speaker 2: Enoch Powell is a major figure there, you know Mosley
Speaker 2: if they're particularly well educated. But the BNP is one
Speaker 2: of those major boogeymen. So I'm curious to what degree
Speaker 2: has that affected you, right, being this sort of national boogeyman, right,
Speaker 2: this sort of symbol of eternal evil.
Speaker 3: Interesting question. Before we come on with answer for that,
Speaker 3: you might like to notice, probably difficult on your camera.
Speaker 3: This is a bust to being not Powell. It's a
Speaker 3: bronze bust and it was actually he sat for this sculptor.
Speaker 3: There only three of them ever made, and this one
Speaker 3: was supposed Powell thought it was great, and it was
Speaker 3: supposed to go into the House of Parliament where there's
Speaker 3: various you can action in the size of the place.
Speaker 3: It's a rabbit's warren, so on various of the window sills,
Speaker 3: there's busts of previous parliamentarians. Powell was a great parliamentarian
Speaker 3: and it would have been quite normal, vise busts to
Speaker 3: have ended up somewhere in Parliament, perhaps in a corridor,
Speaker 3: but it should have been there. And of course the
Speaker 3: liberal left elite, which includes the Conservative Party, at one
Speaker 3: stage his party refused to have him, which is how
Speaker 3: I ended up with this bust. It should be sat
Speaker 3: in the House of Commons, but it isn't. It's here
Speaker 3: with me because Powell was demonized, but not as much
Speaker 3: as I was demonized. So as you said, what effect
Speaker 3: did it have on me? Well, for at least twenty years,
Speaker 3: I didn't walk down a street anywhere in this country
Speaker 3: without just looking around as I'm going, just keeping an
Speaker 3: eye open. There's a skit there, there's some rubbish there,
Speaker 3: so there's a bottle there, there's a brick there, there's
Speaker 3: a lump of wood there. That's a potential weapon for
Speaker 3: someone against me. Push comes to sharvit to potential weapon
Speaker 3: for me against an assailant, so I don't think that's
Speaker 3: normal actually to live your life like that. And I've
Speaker 3: never done a Caine, yes, So that was really how
Speaker 3: it is. My children were young and at school. So when,
Speaker 3: for instance, in one of my trials, my daughter had
Speaker 3: just gone up to her senior school at the age
Speaker 3: of eleven, and they had to repaint the girl's toilets
Speaker 3: twice because it was covered in graffiti against my eleven
Speaker 3: year old daughter and her dad. My wife was a
Speaker 3: very very senior level and very skilled specialist nurse, and
Speaker 3: she was repeatedly given top level nursing awards, which the
Speaker 3: nursing press would report on. Yes, within twenty four hours
Speaker 3: that report was down because the usual suspects stalking me
Speaker 3: and everything to do with me would have got into
Speaker 3: touch with the nursing press saying get that off. Don't
Speaker 3: you realize whose wife that is? She should have had
Speaker 3: national awards and one of the awards whereby you go
Speaker 3: and meet the queen or king and get it. She
Speaker 3: should have had one of those, never did because she
Speaker 3: was my wife. So in family terms, it's been quite
Speaker 3: hard at times. On the other hand, it's been tremendous fun.
Speaker 3: You know. I was told many years ago by one
Speaker 3: of the see if people think, my god, he's old
Speaker 3: with fifty years of experience. On top of that, I've
Speaker 3: got to a degree in the experience of people I
Speaker 3: knew when I was young. So when I was young,
Speaker 3: there were people involved in the movements who'd been with
Speaker 3: Moseley at Cable Street. And the length of time between
Speaker 3: Cable Street and then my early involvement was shorter than
Speaker 3: the time that I've been involved in politics. So there's
Speaker 3: one hell of a lot of experience that I can
Speaker 3: go back to. There. One of the old hands so
Speaker 3: to me when I was very young, first getting involved,
Speaker 3: he said, look, Nick, what you've got to decide with
Speaker 3: your life is are you really going to do something
Speaker 3: with your life or just go through it? And he says,
Speaker 3: how delicate are your audience? Does the occasional Anglo saxon
Speaker 3: word right and them on on right? Fine? Believe everyone's born,
Speaker 3: everyone eats, so everyone shats, everyone fucks, everyone dies, or
Speaker 3: you can do something with your life which actually makes
Speaker 3: a difference. And the first thing is to find the
Speaker 3: right girl, get married, have children, And the second thing
Speaker 3: is to do something that makes a difference. And that
Speaker 3: I've done and I haven't finished yet.
Speaker 2: Well, and this is why I enjoy talking to the
Speaker 2: early adopters. Relatively recently, I was speaking to Peter Brimolo,
Speaker 2: obviously atle bit older than you, and he again has
Speaker 2: faced very intense reprisals for what he's done in our country,
Speaker 2: and I think for many of us in dissidence, even
Speaker 2: myself have faced stiff consequences for that. But the question is, well,
Speaker 2: to be honest, how much do you believe it? Do
Speaker 2: you believe that your rate or not?
Speaker 3: Yes, certainly believe I'm right. One more thing, by the way,
Speaker 3: of course, as well as the physical problems like that,
Speaker 3: I've also been in court under the Race Relations Act
Speaker 3: the Anti Free Speech Act three times, facing a prison sentence.
Speaker 3: The first time I'm out to two years, the second
Speaker 3: and third time of up to seven years. And I've
Speaker 3: also been in the civil courts with law fair from
Speaker 3: the main desionist attack organizations and the British State which
Speaker 3: could have put me in prison for contempt at court
Speaker 3: and or bankrupted me. I've been bankrupted twice. First time
Speaker 3: was actually largely just you know, personal thing, the way
Speaker 3: you're trying to get things done and all the rest
Speaker 3: of it that was just a property that was properly stuff.
Speaker 3: The second time, the bankruptcy was purely law fair by
Speaker 3: the British State. So yeah, I've had lots of it,
Speaker 3: but no, it doesn't matter because I believe it. Yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 3: I was offered a I studied law at Cambridge University,
Speaker 3: got the degree, and was a little bit after a
Speaker 3: little one after that, offered a place at a really
Speaker 3: good barrister's chambers, that's the barristers an advocate, I think
Speaker 3: you'd say, But it was on condition that it gave
Speaker 3: up politics. So I said, no, that's it. So I
Speaker 3: could have had a far more comfortable life somewhere else,
Speaker 3: but it wouldn't have been such an interesting life, nor
Speaker 3: I believe such a good life, whether you believe my own.
Speaker 2: Trumpet, none at all. And I think that that is
Speaker 2: that sort of deal with the devil right was perhaps
Speaker 2: it was perhaps more obscured decades ago, because now, and
Speaker 2: this is something that it's been kind of interesting to
Speaker 2: see because in both America and at least according to
Speaker 2: Poles in your nation, the youth is relatively speaking to
Speaker 2: the right of their elders, which is sort of an
Speaker 2: unusual thing, and I think a large portion of that
Speaker 2: is that it is extremely difficult for a straight white,
Speaker 2: particularly religious and by that we mean Christian male, to
Speaker 2: become part of that coalition. Yes, you can either become
Speaker 2: entirely self effacing. You can become embarrassed of yourself. I
Speaker 2: guess you could put on address that might help. To
Speaker 2: be honest, there isn't really an option, and so that
Speaker 2: that bribery right to sort of ignore what you see
Speaker 2: going on is much more difficult. And you know, you
Speaker 2: could look at that and say, you know, there is
Speaker 2: a dispossession in that, and I certainly agree. But on
Speaker 2: the other hand, if you believe that you and I
Speaker 2: are right, and obviously both of us do incredible accelerant
Speaker 2: to our cars. Because again there really are there are
Speaker 2: a few options. A choice must be made, so you
Speaker 2: mentioned earlier.
Speaker 3: Kind of just come in there, just one more thing
Speaker 3: before we going go on that. The one big difference
Speaker 3: is that when I made that choice at the age
Speaker 3: of twenty one, in a way, I've made the choice
Speaker 3: at the age of fifteen, when I decided to go
Speaker 3: to join the National Front instead of staying with the
Speaker 3: Conservative Party. When I made that choice. I was completely alone. Basically,
Speaker 3: there was no one else at school thought like me.
Speaker 3: There was no one near the village where I lived,
Speaker 3: you know, youngsters thought like me. When I was even
Speaker 3: in the National Front, I was then surrounded by young
Speaker 3: lads who thought exactly like me, but they were all
Speaker 3: working class kids. I was a middle class kid, So
Speaker 3: I was victually completely alone in that. Whereas youngsters making
Speaker 3: that move now, well, I think in many places you'd
Speaker 3: be the odd one out. Now if, as a young lad,
Speaker 3: certainly the age of fifteen sixteen, to be a leftist,
Speaker 3: to be a multiculturalist, be pro feminist, you'd be a freak.
Speaker 3: So to that extent, it's to that extent it's easier.
Speaker 3: One more thing on that before we come back to
Speaker 3: your next point that if any of your young viewers
Speaker 3: now or in the future, of someone finding this perhaps
Speaker 3: at some point is in this position, perhaps they've just
Speaker 3: been doxed, or they're afraid of being doxed. I put
Speaker 3: on substack one of the first things I wrote, it's
Speaker 3: a couple of months ago now, a letter to a
Speaker 3: young doxed nationalist and honestly anyone, And it was actually
Speaker 3: a letter which I wrote to a real young American nationalist.
Speaker 3: I won't give his name a few years ago, so
Speaker 3: I put it on there, and I really put a
Speaker 3: lot of thoughts into that. I value what this young
Speaker 3: app was doing. Put a lot of thoughts into it.
Speaker 3: Is a lot of my experiences. It's a heartfelt piece.
Speaker 3: If anyone's worried about being doxed or is just it's happened,
Speaker 3: and it's the end of the world, go on, substack
Speaker 3: on mine, Nick Griffin, beyond the Pale and find that
Speaker 3: letter to a doxed young nationalist, and I hope it'll
Speaker 3: give you some comfort and guidance. So now back over
Speaker 3: to you, Jack. Sorry, no, no, not at all. And
Speaker 3: that exact dynamic you're talking about where you and many
Speaker 3: others were alone right kind of these these voices from
Speaker 3: the wilderness, is precisely why I enjoy talking to you,
Speaker 3: because you were early adopters, right well ahead of the curve,
Speaker 3: identifying trends that it you know, as of current writing
Speaker 3: are almost so obvious it's not worth pointing them out
Speaker 3: right like, we don't need to, we don't need to,
Speaker 3: we don't need to justify claims about replacement migration. You
Speaker 3: can look.
Speaker 2: Outside right, whereas you know, forty years ago that was
Speaker 2: a prediction. And I think there's a lot to there's
Speaker 2: a lot to learn in that several things I want
Speaker 2: to get into because I haven't read that piece actually,
Speaker 2: but you know, I have been docked. I assume many
Speaker 2: people around me have been as well. It's uh, it's
Speaker 2: incredibly disconcerted because, of course, as you've said, the press
Speaker 2: will never directly threaten you. They'll never say We're going
Speaker 2: to bash your brick, your your head in with a brick.
Speaker 2: But the implication is there, of course, because it is
Speaker 2: we are telling everyone else, however unhinged, where you live,
Speaker 2: what you do, what your name is, and the most
Speaker 2: uncharitable view of how you are a threat to this
Speaker 2: kind of godless you know, satanic globalist state religion. Kind
Speaker 2: of joking, but also kind of not when I say that.
Speaker 2: And so if you wouldn't mind just kind of briefly
Speaker 2: summarizing your remarks, because I'm really interested to get your
Speaker 2: take on that, we'll give.
Speaker 3: You a again, a personal anecdote from the dimmer distance past.
Speaker 3: Because I've been doxed, and not in the usual way
Speaker 3: I've doxed myself. So when I was at school, I
Speaker 3: was openly National Front and so on. When I went
Speaker 3: to university, for the first few weeks I talked about
Speaker 3: politics for people and so on. A fact I because
Speaker 3: the National Front was big in the news in nineteen
Speaker 3: seventy seven. So I told people within my college, yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm in the National Front. Bit of shock. But it
Speaker 3: was a rather sports based college. No one really David
Speaker 3: Danham so to the college within the within Cambridge University
Speaker 3: for the rest of the university didn't know, and Cambridge
Speaker 3: University at Oxford as well. They each have a very
Speaker 3: famous institution, the Union, which is a debating society. And
Speaker 3: I hadn't been at the UNI for more than a
Speaker 3: few weeks when there was a debate in the Cambridge
Speaker 3: Union on the subject this House would ban the National Front.
Speaker 3: So I went in arms. I was a member of
Speaker 3: the of the Union. I've been to a few of
Speaker 3: the debates, hadn't spoken and this came up, and then
Speaker 3: it was you got to the station of the debate
Speaker 3: for points from the floor. So I got up and
Speaker 3: went to the front and spoke for the motion as
Speaker 3: a member of the National Front. I said, because I
Speaker 3: wanted to defeat the motion was the point. So I
Speaker 3: spoke for the motion, saying, look, we're a revolutionary organization.
Speaker 3: All revolutionary organizations have to be hardened by a period
Speaker 3: of be legat of persecution and illegality, therefore bringing up
Speaker 3: to much of the discomfort of the other people proposing
Speaker 3: and supporusing the motion. Anyway, the motion was rejected and
Speaker 3: I walked out, and really, other than being quite pleased
Speaker 3: with myself because I'd heard several people say that was
Speaker 3: a really good speech from the n F bloke, but
Speaker 3: that was it. Thought nothing more of it until two
Speaker 3: days later a knock on my dig's door and there's
Speaker 3: two reporters from the student paper. So the next issue
Speaker 3: I'm on the front page. At one point not long
Speaker 3: after that, they actually then they printed a picture of
Speaker 3: the digs that I lived in, with an arrow an
Speaker 3: anti Nazi League garrow, pointing to the window that they
Speaker 3: thought I lived in. Funnily enough, it was a window
Speaker 3: of another room occupied by the chairman of the College
Speaker 3: Gay Society. He was both livid and terrify. It was
Speaker 3: the only time we ever spoke to me. But even
Speaker 3: as he found out, as I found out, their bark
Speaker 3: is far worse than their bite. And the only thing,
Speaker 3: the only thing actually frightened of is being frightened. And
Speaker 3: they never do anything. Anyone who threatens you, especially anonymously. Yeah,
Speaker 3: but well no even even with their with their own
Speaker 3: name and so on, anyone who threatens you, they're not
Speaker 3: going to do it because they were going to do it.
Speaker 3: They wouldn't threaten you because it's put you on alert
Speaker 3: and it's put them possibly at legal risks, so they're
Speaker 3: not going to So after this, the University Socialist Workers'
Speaker 3: Party said I had to be driven out of the town.
Speaker 3: There's no campus in Cambridge of Oxford, it's as part
Speaker 3: of the town, so driven out of the town. If
Speaker 3: you see him, attack him on site, all of this,
Speaker 3: blah blah blah. I had an advantage in that by
Speaker 3: this stage I was in the university boxing team, so
Speaker 3: it didn't occur to them. I was a featherweight than
Speaker 3: a lightweight and actually not particularly dangerous, but I was
Speaker 3: dangerous enough anyway, so they left me alone. But at
Speaker 3: one point, when there was lots of threats, I scouted
Speaker 3: around in a builder's skip and I got six or
Speaker 3: seven pieces of rebar offcuts of lumps of steel and
Speaker 3: I went along my route between my college where we
Speaker 3: go to eat and tutorials and so on, and my digs,
Speaker 3: and every thirty yards or so, I had a piece
Speaker 3: of this rebar stuck in a hedge someway somewhere say
Speaker 3: fifty yards. So I was never more than twenty five
Speaker 3: yards from one of my pieces of rebar. So if
Speaker 3: I get jumped by three or four scumbags, I've only
Speaker 3: got to get twenty five yards and I've got the
Speaker 3: drop on them. Never needed it. That's the thing. So
Speaker 3: you have to have the mentality that you're prepared to
Speaker 3: face this and deal with it. And in the end,
Speaker 3: someone slaps you around at that age, you play rugby,
Speaker 3: you're boxing or whatever, you get more injury. I know
Speaker 3: you don't, because you've got that silly, faggy American football game.
Speaker 3: You'll pad it up. If you're actually your bricks or
Speaker 3: ossies or kiwis or whatever, you play proper rugby, you're
Speaker 3: going to get far worse in that probably than someone
Speaker 3: slaps you in the street. That's about it. The only
Speaker 3: thing you might lose, really seriously, you're going to lose
Speaker 3: a career in the law. You're going to lose a
Speaker 3: big money making career. Probably, do you know what, the
Speaker 3: best thing that's ever happened to you. Because if you
Speaker 3: go into that big money making career, the girls you're
Speaker 3: going to meet are all from the same background. They've
Speaker 3: all been through the university, the top university mill and
Speaker 3: if they're not the lesbians, they're certainly feminists, or at
Speaker 3: the very best, they're careerists. Even if you marry one
Speaker 3: of them, she's not going to consent even think about
Speaker 3: having kids till she's thirty eight, by which time it's
Speaker 3: probably too late. You're going to get one child too.
Speaker 3: At the very most, you'll probably be divorced in four
Speaker 3: or five years. In any case, it's a disaster. You're
Speaker 3: again to get slightly coarse. If you go fishing in
Speaker 3: a sewer, you'll catch a third on your stick, on
Speaker 3: your hook andish. If you're looking for a girl, for
Speaker 3: a woman, for a life partner, for your wife, in
Speaker 3: a university setting or amongst women who've been to university,
Speaker 3: you're going to catch a feminist third. You've got. The
Speaker 3: place you'll find a decent woman is in a working class,
Speaker 3: a lower middle class, white man van type environment, or
Speaker 3: at church someone like that, an ordinary decent girl without
Speaker 3: the pretensions of one who's been to a best university.
Speaker 3: So if you're up there with the money and so on,
Speaker 3: you're not going to fight the right find the right girl.
Speaker 3: You're not going to have a fami money. And in
Speaker 3: the end that sort really counts. You'll have a stack
Speaker 3: of money for working. What is it forty five weeks
Speaker 3: of the year in the case of law in a
Speaker 3: place where you try to jail someone who is innocent
Speaker 3: or get someone who's off who's guilty, And in any case,
Speaker 3: you're in an airless box with no windows, no lights,
Speaker 3: no nothing natural. It's a horri wine on earth? Would
Speaker 3: you want to do that to yourself? In order? You've
Speaker 3: got enough money so that for four weeks of the year,
Speaker 3: five weeks of the year, you can go skiing one
Speaker 3: week and you got to Florida another week, go on
Speaker 3: a boat and that's it. Whereas if you've got a
Speaker 3: proper trade, any dealing with real decent, normal people, and
Speaker 3: you're out in the open air, or you're doing things
Speaker 3: with decent people instead of criminal scumbags and lawyers who
Speaker 3: are among the worst criminal scumbags of the lot. So
Speaker 3: when people say to me, he has to saying what
Speaker 3: should I do again with my future? I say, now,
Speaker 3: for Heaven's sake, don't go to university. Don't get a
Speaker 3: mountain of debt and a degree which fits you to
Speaker 3: do something which AI can do in any case in
Speaker 3: all probability, or which is in a lifestyle which is horrible.
Speaker 3: Go out and get a trade where you're in touch
Speaker 3: with real people, and if push comes to sharp, if
Speaker 3: things go really bad, you've got a cash trade, or
Speaker 3: you can go and do a job of someone, you
Speaker 3: can barter, and it's just a better way of being.
Speaker 3: You're better as an honest working man, especially now as
Speaker 3: a white man, than you are in the upper echularms,
Speaker 3: which are full of affirmative action. What have you got?
Speaker 3: You've got Jews, Indians, blacks, feminists, lesbians, trans they're all
Speaker 3: above you automatically because of what they are and because
Speaker 3: of what you are. If you're in a trade, how
Speaker 3: many out of them are in competition with a plumber,
Speaker 3: a brick layer, an engineer, or a motor mechanic.
Speaker 2: Zero.
Speaker 3: You got it for yourself, and the only people you're
Speaker 3: in competition with really actually the old boomers. I guess what,
Speaker 3: We're all retiring and dying. So it's open. That's where
Speaker 3: people need to go. So don't be scared of being docked.
Speaker 3: All it stops is a life which you dove in,
Speaker 3: thoroughly miserable in any case.
Speaker 2: Well, and to that point, much ink has been spilled
Speaker 2: in the American press talking about effectively the last generation,
Speaker 2: right millennials and Gen Z who have not been able
Speaker 2: to climb the corporate ladder. It's largely due to, as
Speaker 2: you said, affirmative action, preferential hiring these sort of ethnic cabals.
Speaker 2: For instance, you know there's this I believe it's Bloomberg.
Speaker 2: I can't remember who did that peace talking about you know,
Speaker 2: after the pandemic, corporate America vowed to hire more people
Speaker 2: of color, and they showing that of new hires over
Speaker 2: ninety percent are not the largest working demographic in America.
Speaker 2: And so this adds another element, which is, let's say
Speaker 2: that you know, there's a you know, a young man
Speaker 2: listening to you, Nick who says, this guy's an idiot,
Speaker 2: he doesn't know what he's talking about. Okay, can you
Speaker 2: even do that? Is it actually possible for you to
Speaker 2: get that corporate job? Because look, you know before actually
Speaker 2: I was actually starting my podcast then. But you know,
Speaker 2: when I left university, right with a good degree from
Speaker 2: a top program, what I ended up working finance is
Speaker 2: completely useless nonsense. But point is right, the sort of
Speaker 2: degree that that you know, well meaning older conservatives tell
Speaker 2: you that will guarantee you a job, right, that the
Speaker 2: sort of you know, technical degrees. I worked for a
Speaker 2: year in a factory, right, and there's nothing wrong with that,
Speaker 2: but it simply was not an option for me. There
Speaker 2: were no jobs to be had. And look, you know
Speaker 2: I wouldn't necessarily recommend working at that factory for any
Speaker 2: number of reasons. But at the same time, right, again,
Speaker 2: is that even a career possibility that's opened to you.
Speaker 2: So there's one thing I want to get into because
Speaker 2: as an American, this is something that I'm sort of
Speaker 2: fascinated and mystified by, which is British class dynamics. Right,
Speaker 2: It's a much more class based society, and in discussions
Speaker 2: of Brexit, in discussions of nationalism, I see a lot
Speaker 2: of just class snobbery, right, the term gammin, right, this
Speaker 2: idea that you know, anyone who doesn't want to turn
Speaker 2: your island into you know, a multicultural paradise is some
Speaker 2: sort of you know, obese, red faced, inbred, alcoholic their words,
Speaker 2: not mine, of course. So can you explain because you
Speaker 2: mentioned it as well talking about how it's the majority
Speaker 2: of NF porters were you know, working class. So can
Speaker 2: you explain the relation between class and the issue of
Speaker 2: immigration and also the grooming gangs by extension.
Speaker 3: Yes, there's a combination of things, so it's partly it's
Speaker 3: primarily two factors are pushing a pull. There's experience, and
Speaker 3: there's your social circles and what's good for you, So
Speaker 3: it's experience and fear. There's the experience of what you're
Speaker 3: living in and throughout the late sixties when it really started,
Speaker 3: the seventies, the eighties, of the nineties, the two thousands,
Speaker 3: the only people who are having to put up with
Speaker 3: large numbers of immigrants, and especially the ones who are
Speaker 3: the worst behaved, which generally is either the not the
Speaker 3: first generation save West Indians who came in. They were
Speaker 3: quite well behaved, most of them, but the second the
Speaker 3: you get the second generation kids who instead of going
Speaker 3: to a decent having gone to a decent little probably
Speaker 3: church school somewhere outside TriNet outside Jamestown have gone to
Speaker 3: a sink comprehensive state system school where there's no discipline whatsoever,
Speaker 3: and they're feral. You know, they're really really dangerous to everybody.
Speaker 3: They're primarily dangerous to themselves and they're fellows before the
Speaker 3: dangerous to anybody else. Black on black crime has been
Speaker 3: a huge thing in London, say for years, but those people,
Speaker 3: or the Pakistani grooming gangs, and also a lot of
Speaker 3: it's forgotten at the time that we were talking about
Speaker 3: the grooming issue, and even bigger issue was racist tacks
Speaker 3: on white lads, so instead of grooming and sex attacks,
Speaker 3: it was brutal beatings and stabbings, and both these have
Speaker 3: preceded somewhat for various reasons. But in the nineties and
Speaker 3: the two thousands especially, these were huge issues, huge problems,
Speaker 3: but they only affected working class communities because that's where
Speaker 3: the immigrants had gone because housing was cheap, whether they
Speaker 3: were buying it or that it was rented, it's where
Speaker 3: they were sent. When councils were sending they weren't sending
Speaker 3: into bosh areas. They were sending into working class areas.
Speaker 3: So the only the people on the sharp end of
Speaker 3: the troubles that came with immigrants. A lot of them
Speaker 3: are perfectly decent people. They don't give you trouble, but
Speaker 3: they're in competition with you for jobs, so it's a
Speaker 3: different form of trouble. They're in competition with you for houses.
Speaker 3: It's a different form of trouble, but it's trouble with them,
Speaker 3: and that only affected the working class until very recently.
Speaker 3: So we now get this demonstrations now all over this
Speaker 3: country every weekend, almost every day, actually in much more
Speaker 3: middle class areas where the government are now putting the
Speaker 3: thoroughly illegal boat people have come across across the Channel.
Speaker 3: All of them are almost all of them undocumented, males
Speaker 3: of fighting age and unvetted as well as automatic. They're
Speaker 3: putting them down in quite middle class areas.
Speaker 2: There.
Speaker 3: Some times I see these middle class people coming out
Speaker 3: and on the streets and quite posh voices. Because England's
Speaker 3: so class ridden, you can tell precisely what class someone
Speaker 3: is from, and so the minute they open their mouths,
Speaker 3: not even the minutes, twenty seconds, even less than that,
Speaker 3: the first vowel gives you the class. And I hear
Speaker 3: these people desperately complaining about how it's they can't even
Speaker 3: sell their house now, you know, it's terrible, and they
Speaker 3: they worry about their daughter coming home from school and
Speaker 3: all the rest of it. And I do sometimes think
Speaker 3: not one of you people voted British National Party, all
Speaker 3: of you fifteen twenty years ago, who would have looked
Speaker 3: down in noses that someone who said there would bemp
Speaker 3: because it's beneath you, because it's so working class. It's
Speaker 3: sewing for a dick. It's thoroughly unacceptable, and you're obviously
Speaker 3: stupid and uneducated. And occasionally I got the little bit
Speaker 3: of sharpenfreuder. You know, you really shouldn't feel like this,
Speaker 3: but sometimes you can't help yourself. So there's that. So
Speaker 3: that's one reason it was a working class thing. And
Speaker 3: it's now changing quite a lot, not least because it's
Speaker 3: not just now communities have got these problems. But again,
Speaker 3: middle class white kids, who white boys, who thirty years
Speaker 3: ago had no issue at all with immigration. Now like
Speaker 3: you in America, they know that even the god of university,
Speaker 3: they're at the bottom of the hiring heat. So it's
Speaker 3: affecting them, so it's changed them around. The Other thing
Speaker 3: is the the social costs are being involved in a
Speaker 3: nationalist or anti immigration movement, that it's you will not
Speaker 3: you can't get the higher promotion. People will be shocked
Speaker 3: at a dinner party and so on. Those social costs
Speaker 3: don't affect working class people anything like as much as
Speaker 3: they do people from the middle of the upper classes,
Speaker 3: because everybody in the path feels the same way. And
Speaker 3: I can go into one of the locals around here,
Speaker 3: and what they call casual racism do you get from
Speaker 3: people most my hair stand on in quite friendly? Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's really it's so over the top, you know, cruel
Speaker 3: and illegal. Oh no sake, Yeah, there's nothing that I
Speaker 3: would have said ever like you're getting here. It's quite routined.
Speaker 3: So there's no social cost anymore for or wasn't even
Speaker 3: back in the key days. There wasn't that social class
Speaker 3: cost for working class people that there was for the others.
Speaker 3: And the greatest betrayal of all in Britain naturally is
Speaker 3: not well it's partly what, yes, what are elites done
Speaker 3: to us, but also the great portrayal of the great
Speaker 3: cowardice is what the British middle class and upper middle
Speaker 3: class did when all this has happened, which was precisely
Speaker 3: nothing because they thought it wouldn't happen to them and
Speaker 3: they were afraid to speak out about it. And you
Speaker 3: can't have an army, whether it's a physical, fighting military
Speaker 3: army or a political army, you can't have an effective
Speaker 3: army with our officers on the officer class of Britain
Speaker 3: hid for fifty years while our country went down the tube.
Speaker 3: Are there only now just started to come out. I
Speaker 3: put the nose, but the parapet Yeah, because it's a
Speaker 3: little bit safer to come out, and because now they.
Speaker 2: Really need to.
Speaker 3: We wouldn't be in this mess if our middle and
Speaker 3: upper classes that showed a fracture at the backbone of
Speaker 3: the working class.
Speaker 2: Well to that point, that is very much the story
Speaker 2: of immigration here as well, and we're just starting to
Speaker 2: see that turn where h one B's right. Other of
Speaker 2: these visa programs which allow alleged doctors and engineers, right,
Speaker 2: because we're all aware of, you know, the Indian degree
Speaker 2: mills and others to replace white collar professional workers at
Speaker 2: sixty cents on the dollar. But I think to you know,
Speaker 2: my grandfather, who you know, worked as a body man,
Speaker 2: right repairing crash cards. His entire career. And it's funny
Speaker 2: because you know, thirty years ago he would have described
Speaker 2: himself as a socialist. I've heard him say that, but
Speaker 2: you dig down and you realize what he actually is.
Speaker 2: He's an old school organized labor guy, right, and he
Speaker 2: viewed immigrants's scabs basically as someone who could take his
Speaker 2: job and do it for less. And now, of course
Speaker 2: he's you know, the the most Trump supporting man in America,
Speaker 2: But to that point, that was a very low class thing.
Speaker 2: People always, you know, talk to him as if he
Speaker 2: were crazy, right, as if he were this kind of
Speaker 2: you know, stereotypical, you know, crazed redneck. And I think
Speaker 2: as well, right on that point, that sort of social control,
Speaker 2: that ability to signal what is high status behavior is
Speaker 2: particularly effective on the middle class because, as I'm sure
Speaker 2: you're aware, middle class people always want to be a
Speaker 2: to appear to be upwardly mobile, right, to appear to
Speaker 2: have exactly the right beliefs, exactly the right diet, exactly
Speaker 2: the right clothing, and even now, right in a situation
Speaker 2: where many people in that demographic are being absolutely demolished
Speaker 2: by immigration, and I share that shotten for it, right,
Speaker 2: there's a certain part of me, and it's like, oh, okay,
Speaker 2: so finally you had to feel the problem. But at
Speaker 2: the same time, it's almost like that that social reward
Speaker 2: is valued higher than their you know, economic or cultural, cultural,
Speaker 2: I guess, but the actual you know, money in their pocket,
Speaker 2: so to speak. It's incredibly frustrating. One of the other things,
Speaker 2: and I'm glad you brought it up, is the the
Speaker 2: middle class in Britain is incredibly incredibly left wing in
Speaker 2: a way that I have sort of a hard way
Speaker 2: or a hard time understanding. I think of like the
Speaker 2: Guardian reader type. Is that because of that sort of
Speaker 2: social pressure or is there another dynamic at play there.
Speaker 3: I've you've got to differentiate them from the rest of
Speaker 3: the middle class to be so accurate and fair as well.
Speaker 3: This is the the flip side of the welfare mothers.
Speaker 3: This is a class who are almost exclusively working for
Speaker 3: the state. They're there, there's a huge self interest. They've
Speaker 3: all got their little empire or their salary is reliant,
Speaker 3: their job is reliant, their mortgage, everything is reliant on
Speaker 3: them fitting in to the management side of the welfare state.
Speaker 3: So it's the management side of the socialist experiment of
Speaker 3: the socialist utopia, and they have to be loyal to
Speaker 3: that because otherwise they're in deep, deep trouble. And then
Speaker 3: I ain't very often because people generally, unless they're psychopaths,
Speaker 3: they want to feel that, you know, they're good people.
Speaker 3: So there's all this pressure to rationalize what they're doing.
Speaker 3: So they're there now, for instance, teaching kids all the
Speaker 3: trends stuff, and they know that's wrong, but because their
Speaker 3: job depends on it, they'll rationalize that that well, it's
Speaker 3: you know, it's it's all about tolerance and you know,
Speaker 3: all the rest of it. So there's a huge kind
Speaker 3: of self interest in the left wing middle class. But
Speaker 3: the left wing middle class, the Guardian readers and so on,
Speaker 3: as I say, they are if they're not in the
Speaker 3: the welfare management sector, they are in the media. That's basic.
Speaker 3: That's basically it. The rest of people. If a middle
Speaker 3: class person, as it's a the owner of a small business,
Speaker 3: the people working for themselves or working in private companies,
Speaker 3: whether it's salesmen or whatever, they they're nothing like Guardian readers.
Speaker 3: The Guardian sells so few papers it's almost gone now
Speaker 3: because it's all question of online and adverts. When for
Speaker 3: the last. The Guardian only survived the two thousands, the
Speaker 3: two thousand and tens because because it was lost making
Speaker 3: all the time, the only thing that kept it afloat
Speaker 3: was basically every Thursday there was the Guardian Jobs a
Speaker 3: special huge extra section and every single council, particularly the
Speaker 3: labour ones. But even in the conservative run councils, the
Speaker 3: administration is run by the left, so that the right
Speaker 3: wing reactionary types might control the council chamber, the administration
Speaker 3: is run by the left. So every single job, for
Speaker 3: every every single advert for every single job was put
Speaker 3: through the Guardian. That's what kept the Guardian going because
Speaker 3: it had a circulation anker with something one hundred and
Speaker 3: seventy thousand. That was it. So this isn't a huge
Speaker 3: not a huge class, but you know the Guardian readers.
Speaker 3: Now it's bigger now because it's now online and so
Speaker 3: that's how it survives. But it's not an enormous class.
Speaker 3: It looks big and it's got enormous power, and I
Speaker 3: suppose what is rather large because okay, some of the
Speaker 3: people working for the state are sweeping street men. In
Speaker 3: all the nurses or whatever, they are thirty decent, normal people,
Speaker 3: and they think are you and I but the people,
Speaker 3: the management class and so on. Yep, they are extremely
Speaker 3: left wing for the reasons I've said so.
Speaker 2: Nick, this is sort of an odd situation, but I
Speaker 2: think our program is going to kick us out in
Speaker 2: just a few seconds. For those wondering technical difficulties, I
Speaker 2: will be sure to include everywhere people can find you,
Speaker 2: and I'll have to have you on again where we
Speaker 2: can discuss without all of these irritating technical difficulties. But
Speaker 2: I just wanted to say because I think we have
Speaker 2: seconds left, so slight shift of pace. As you guys
Speaker 2: can probably tell, this is a different recording. We had
Speaker 2: some technical difficulties now sorted, but these recordings will be
Speaker 2: stitched together. Just an update if the conversation seems to
Speaker 2: end off and begin somewhere completely alt. But Nick, one
Speaker 2: of the things that I have noticed, Look, you know,
Speaker 2: I'm American. The American nationalists scene and the European and
Speaker 2: British nationalist scene certainly has some crossovers, but there's some
Speaker 2: significant difference. And one of the ones that I'm curious
Speaker 2: to get your opinion on is the relative role of
Speaker 2: religion America, especially for a first world country is quite religious,
Speaker 2: unusually so, and our nationalists tend to lean into that.
Speaker 2: I see less of that certainly coming from the continent,
Speaker 2: but you know, relatively speaking, less coming from England as well.
Speaker 2: So if you could, could you speak to you know, obviously,
Speaker 2: you know, we can talk about your personal relationship to religion,
Speaker 2: but how what is the intersection like in your country
Speaker 2: between you know, right wing nativist politics and religion.
Speaker 3: Well, it's something that's shifting very, very rapidly, so it's
Speaker 3: actually this is a huge question. So let's step right
Speaker 3: back to the sort of the origins of it. Personally,
Speaker 3: I'm a Christian. I haven't always been. While I was
Speaker 3: almost up an Anglican, of course, and then drifted away
Speaker 3: from that. Regarded myself in my early twenties as the
Speaker 3: sort of sort of ecopagan, slightly odinist type that appeals
Speaker 3: to many young nationalists, you know, has done for decades,
Speaker 3: and then, particularly as I look more at the problem
Speaker 3: with Islamification, the answer that Christianity is the way to
Speaker 3: oppose this became stronger and stronger. So I started off
Speaker 3: sort of as a cultural Christian and then became more
Speaker 3: of a believing Christian personally, I would now be an
Speaker 3: Orthodox in a Russian Orthodox Christian for a number of reasons.
Speaker 3: Although it's got the word Russian in it, it's actually
Speaker 3: very much a national church in each place. It speaks
Speaker 3: to me in all sorts of ways. But coming from
Speaker 3: an Anglican origin, I simply can't believe in transubstantiation the
Speaker 3: idea that are the bread and the wine become literally
Speaker 3: in the body of Christ. I'm sort of too Protestant
Speaker 3: for that innately, so I feel I can't, without being
Speaker 3: a hypocrite, say I'm absolutely Orthodox. But that's sort of
Speaker 3: where I am, really and truly definitely a believe a
Speaker 3: humble believing Crists. Not a particularly good one, of course,
Speaker 3: but there we go. As for the cultural differences between
Speaker 3: America and Britain, it's shrinking to some extent, certainly in
Speaker 3: the British nationalist scene, which is becoming increasingly religious, to say,
Speaker 3: partly as a reaction to the islam adicle. So also
Speaker 3: the blatantly atheist problem, all the trans and all the
Speaker 3: rest of it. It's not really a political ideology we're facing.
Speaker 3: It's a different form of religion. So therefore it's natural
Speaker 3: for people to drift back and move back towards Christianity.
Speaker 3: But the fundamental difference between America and Britain is speaking
Speaker 3: as a Christian and with the greatest respect to America,
Speaker 3: every religious lunatic from the whole of Europe went to
Speaker 3: America for four hundred years. So you are selectively bred
Speaker 3: for religious mania in a way that none of the
Speaker 3: rest of us are. So it's actually something that American
Speaker 3: nationalists of a pagan bent need to really understand. Ye,
Speaker 3: your people are deeply fundamentally in every way, shape and form,
Speaker 3: if you've got any routes at all, they are Christian
Speaker 3: and Christian dissident at that, which is really what you
Speaker 3: want to make revolutions and rebellions out of. So that's
Speaker 3: the difference. Having said which I reiterate again in well,
Speaker 3: going back to when I was on the steps of
Speaker 3: Leeds Crown Court, when I was being prosecuted with a
Speaker 3: potential seven year sentence for speaking out about the grooming issue,
Speaker 3: I bought to that someone sent me just out of
Speaker 3: the blue. It just came addressed to Nick Griffin Leeds
Speaker 3: Crown Courts. Every day the usher of the court brought
Speaker 3: me a big pile of post from all over the
Speaker 3: country and for all over the world, and people had
Speaker 3: written to me because they've seen what was going on
Speaker 3: to support me, and some unknown persons sent me a
Speaker 3: wooden cross about that bee. It's a plain Protestant wooden cross,
Speaker 3: and I took that and I used that held up
Speaker 3: to the big BNP crowd outside the court at one
Speaker 3: point and we prayed the Lord's Prayer and so on,
Speaker 3: and that was really the first public iteration of connecting
Speaker 3: Christianity and nationalism in Britain, I think almost ever, apart
Speaker 3: from the fact that National Front in years back used
Speaker 3: to hold a Remembrance Day service in central London, which
Speaker 3: is obviously automatically a religious thing. Apart from that, Mosley
Speaker 3: and Co. And then the early National Front, it was
Speaker 3: all It wasn't anti Christian, but it was completely cut off.
Speaker 3: It was absolutely the old English or Protestant tradition of
Speaker 3: separation of church and state. And that first time outside
Speaker 3: of Leeds Crown Court was the beginning of that change.
Speaker 3: And it's now gone a long long way, so that
Speaker 3: when I was your age, a young nationalist professing Christianity
Speaker 3: would have in Britain would have been on the earth.
Speaker 3: Is this you know? It's an individual quirk in Peter Heart.
Speaker 3: It's got nothing to do with the rest of us. Now,
Speaker 3: I would say it's probably more common than not. So
Speaker 3: this is a big change. So we're moving more towards
Speaker 3: being like you are in the States.
Speaker 2: On that point, it is true, right, America is effectively
Speaker 2: a hot bed for everyone else's religious nutcases. And one
Speaker 2: of my favorite theses you know about the formation of
Speaker 2: America is that of Albion seat, where you can sort
Speaker 2: of trace these different American regional cultures to areas of
Speaker 2: your nation. And the northern Southern divide is very much
Speaker 2: a religious divide, right. The North, which now is quite
Speaker 2: a Christian was effectively all of the most innovative forms
Speaker 2: of religion, right, the Quakers, the Shakers, the Puritans, and
Speaker 2: you know, over the course of two hundred years, they
Speaker 2: effectively burned themselves out of religion.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: You see a great many churches there that are now
Speaker 2: apartments and daycare centers and the like. But they kept
Speaker 2: the zeal, and that zeal has been applied towards progressive
Speaker 2: politics and ruining everyone's life, and they really ever stopped it.
Speaker 2: And honestly, look, I am neither orthodox nor pagan. But
Speaker 2: I have a great many friends who are in both
Speaker 2: of those groups, so I'll be polite, of course, but
Speaker 2: I understand the especially in the American context, the revulsion
Speaker 2: towards mass market Protestantism, particularly as regards the Zionist issue.
Speaker 2: I one hundred percent understand it, yep. But at the
Speaker 2: same time, the sort of best of America, right the
Speaker 2: flyover states are quite religious, and you're really never going
Speaker 2: to get them to stop doing that. And so if
Speaker 2: your project involved some sort of you know, mass odentic conversion,
Speaker 2: I mean, it's not going to happen. It's not going
Speaker 2: to happen, you know, regardless on that point. And it
Speaker 2: is an interesting Joel Davis, who I don't pretend to
Speaker 2: know well, although you know he is undergoing his own persecution.
Speaker 2: You know, it says this, and I'll butcher the quote,
Speaker 2: but he talks about, you know, the effectively white countries
Speaker 2: were made great under the Church and without that day
Speaker 2: of withered and something I notice, and this is applies
Speaker 2: to you know, both the kind of very unchurched areas
Speaker 2: of my country as well as you know, continental Europe
Speaker 2: and England as well, where regardless of why, and we
Speaker 2: can debate why it seems that the only people actually
Speaker 2: having children, actually reproducing their culture are extremely religious one
Speaker 2: way or another. And look, I am, you know, a
Speaker 2: believing Christian. I try not to speak on it too much,
Speaker 2: just because no one should look to me or ice
Speaker 2: on theological issues. But at a at a very basic level,
Speaker 2: I don't understand how you replicate a culture through generations
Speaker 2: without that, setting aside any theological claim. And you know,
Speaker 2: we are in an era of massively declining birth rates,
Speaker 2: so on a fundamental level, I don't understand how you
Speaker 2: escape that without some sort of religious tradition.
Speaker 3: I think that's absolutely true. Well it's it's a clear fact.
Speaker 3: There's there's this close correlation betweeniosity and large families, and
Speaker 3: there's no way around that. But in addition, we're going
Speaker 3: into a period very clearly where people are going to
Speaker 3: be persecuted, where the auld certain is a falling apart.
Speaker 3: Whether we end up with some kind of technocratic, anti
Speaker 3: human dictatorship or we're just increasingly failed states, it's going
Speaker 3: to be an uglier, rougher world. And for people to
Speaker 3: have children it's hard enough now, but to have children,
Speaker 3: to have the faith, to have children in a world
Speaker 3: that is patently ugly and getting worse. It's not a
Speaker 3: rational decision to have children, I'm afraid it can only
Speaker 3: either be based on a selfish love and wanting to
Speaker 3: preserve and extend your own line, which is a very
Speaker 3: very good thing. But more than that, it's going to
Speaker 3: be backed up by something else. It's not going to
Speaker 3: be backed up by the eventual European recovery. The Rayconquista,
Speaker 3: which fundamentally, even the Ray Conquistor of Spain wasn't just
Speaker 3: by any means, about military ray Conquista. It was about
Speaker 3: the actual Christian Spanish having a higher birth rate than
Speaker 3: the areas of the occupied Spain, which were basically afflicted
Speaker 3: with Islamic systemic cultural failure. The birth rate comes from
Speaker 3: that Christianity, and especially in hard times, where else can
Speaker 3: it come from. So yeah, even if someone doesn't believe,
Speaker 3: like you said, leave aside the theological stuff. Even if
Speaker 3: someone doesn't believe, even if they look back and say, well,
Speaker 3: Christianity gave us liberalism, universalism, feminism, communism, whatever. Even if
Speaker 3: they don't counter that by saying no, Christianity gave us
Speaker 3: the things that you regard as are people's highest achievements,
Speaker 3: whether it's the cathedrals and the music and art of
Speaker 3: of the High European period, or whether it's the actual
Speaker 3: wonders of modern technology. All of it comes from Christianity.
Speaker 3: But even if you set aside the rights and the
Speaker 3: wrongs of that, and the theological rights and wrongs, you've
Speaker 3: just got to look and think, well, if I was
Speaker 3: going to on this sheet of paper work out the
Speaker 3: other fifteen or twenty five points whatever it is for
Speaker 3: our recovery, because the birth, a higher birth rate is
Speaker 3: so much part of it, you have to look, where
Speaker 3: is that higher birth rate going to come from? And
Speaker 3: there's only two possible answers. Really, there's an ideological commitment
Speaker 3: by a state saying, right, we're going to pay women
Speaker 3: to stay at home and have lots of children, We're
Speaker 3: going to tax people who don't have kids, and all
Speaker 3: the rest of it, or it has to come from
Speaker 3: the individual or the community, since very clearly there is,
Speaker 3: and Trump's rowing back even on what little has been
Speaker 3: done in Minnesota shows the case when even a man
Speaker 3: who basically is the nearest to a Roman emperor that
Speaker 3: we've seen for two thousand years, when even he can't
Speaker 3: actually get to begin to get grips with addressing the
Speaker 3: demographic problem. It's patently obvious it's not going to come
Speaker 3: from above, from the state. It can only come from us,
Speaker 3: people like you, your children, my grandchildren, can only come
Speaker 3: for us. I mean, so, what's the key thing on
Speaker 3: the list which if you were going to design a
Speaker 3: program which will give those people the biggest chance of
Speaker 3: having bigger families, you would say, well, it's got to
Speaker 3: be religiosity. So do we want them to be fundamentalist Jews?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 3: Thank you? Do we want to be fundamentalist Muslims? No?
Speaker 3: Thank you? Do we want them to be fundamentalis Christians?
Speaker 3: Well that is absolutely in line with us and our heritage,
Speaker 3: and it's right too, so of course.
Speaker 2: Well, and look, I don't exactly have a head for
Speaker 2: facts and figures, but this has stuck out well to
Speaker 2: me that the heritability of right wing politics is about
Speaker 2: eight and ten. So look, you know, we'd want it
Speaker 2: to be one hundred ten out of ten, but simply
Speaker 2: not realistic. Do you have an eighty percent chance that
Speaker 2: if you are of opinions that you and I share
Speaker 2: that will be passed down to your children? For the
Speaker 2: progressive types, it's closer to six and ten. They also
Speaker 2: tend to reproduce much less, so you can see over
Speaker 2: time this is selection. Now obviously, like the fly in
Speaker 2: the ointment is immigration. Clearly that's why they are so
Speaker 2: desperate to cram it down our throats. It's to effectively,
Speaker 2: you know, in their minds and politics, right, just simply
Speaker 2: replace who they rule over to become the gayest kings possible.
Speaker 2: But I mean, it's one of those things that obviously
Speaker 2: there's a literal like political advantage, but to your point,
Speaker 2: it's really not a rational decision. Very few people get
Speaker 2: into this by you know, tabulating figures on a spreadsheet
Speaker 2: and saying, oh, well, this will increase my net. I
Speaker 2: don't know even know how you'd measure such a thing
Speaker 2: over the course of my life. But it really is
Speaker 2: a war of belief, right, And this is the thing
Speaker 2: that I've found kind of interesting watching you know, and
Speaker 2: it happens, and pick your favorite event from the headlines
Speaker 2: that at a certain point the actual material facts of
Speaker 2: what are happening don't really matter because there's so much
Speaker 2: spent on it. There's so many different narratives on it.
Speaker 2: So for instance, right, these as I'm sure you've heard
Speaker 2: several people have gotten shot in Minnesota. There's you know
Speaker 2: a number of people who've spent hours of their time
Speaker 2: going through that event forensically. But it really doesn't matter.
Speaker 2: What it comes down to is do you believe a
Speaker 2: nation ought to have a border? Yes or no? Because
Speaker 2: if you do, okay, even if someone got shot wrongly
Speaker 2: that's a horrible occurrence, does not change that fundamental belief,
Speaker 2: yes or no. And so at a certain point, really
Speaker 2: it's it's who believes it more and who has more
Speaker 2: political will. And to your point about Trump, that's been
Speaker 2: the thing that's been very disconcerting. And I don't look
Speaker 2: to the GOP as you know, any sort of savior,
Speaker 2: but to see them lose their will so easily versus
Speaker 2: these people, who, even if they're not religious, have this
Speaker 2: sort of cultish devotion to their politics. To be honest,
Speaker 2: it is, you know, very much a contest of will,
Speaker 2: if you see what I'm getting at.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely so. And I think but what's particular, what
Speaker 3: I think is particularly alarming, certainly looking for a distance,
Speaker 3: and I think it should be alarming for Americans, is
Speaker 3: that the Trump GOP, the remigrationists have given way before
Speaker 3: the other side had even really got started, because you
Speaker 3: haven't seen anything like the scale of the trouble there was,
Speaker 3: for instance, all the Black Lives riot matters, Black Lives
Speaker 3: Riot Matter riots. There's been nothing like the level of
Speaker 3: trouble you could get what Antifa are actually organized to do.
Speaker 3: There hasn't been that much pushback, and already they backed
Speaker 3: off and run away. Yeah, it's quite a stunning thing,
Speaker 3: it really is. So well. The saying I've adhered to
Speaker 3: for many, many years came from King Charles the First
Speaker 3: shortly before he well, sorry, the other Strafford, who was
Speaker 3: the great advisor of King Charles the First, who even
Speaker 3: before the English Civil War started, Charles threw his great
Speaker 3: advisor to the wolves to save his own skin, and
Speaker 3: the other Strafford, before he had his head cut off
Speaker 3: by the Parliament's side, said put not your trust in princes.
Speaker 3: And I think that that's an extraordinarily valuable piece of
Speaker 3: advice for people. So if you're not going to put
Speaker 3: your trust in princes, in which our class also the
Speaker 3: trumps of this world, you must put your trust somewhere.
Speaker 3: So to put it in yourself is a monstrous he
Speaker 3: go again there's only God and the traditional faith and
Speaker 3: generally in your people. And if you have faith in God,
Speaker 3: and whether it's with faith in God or not faith
Speaker 3: in your people, then you have to think, well, therefore
Speaker 3: the people must continue. So it comes back to having children.
Speaker 3: And as you said, it can't be a rational an
Speaker 3: accounting thing of adding up certain percentages or whatever. It's
Speaker 3: just the thing which you should do. It's also someone older,
Speaker 3: I can tell you having four children was a tremendous
Speaker 3: challenge at times and quite hard, but a wonderful thing,
Speaker 3: a joyous thing, and a thing it Actually you can
Speaker 3: be as material as you think you are until you
Speaker 3: have children, and then when you have children, you suddenly
Speaker 3: then find that actually you were very immateure and now
Speaker 3: you're at least on the road to being mature. But
Speaker 3: I can tell you, as also the grandfather of grandchildren,
Speaker 3: that they're even more fun. And the biggest reason to
Speaker 3: have children and to push to have grandchildren isn't because
Speaker 3: in the end, because it's it's because what God God demands,
Speaker 3: or because what's good for your people. It's just because
Speaker 3: it's fun. It's what we're designing to do. So if
Speaker 3: I know so many youngsters, young relatively young men approached
Speaker 3: me through substack and and say, you know, I'm thinking
Speaker 3: about this, but yeah, can I do it? And if
Speaker 3: I get married to this girl, what happens in ten
Speaker 3: years time, if we get divorced or something like that,
Speaker 3: forget it all. Just have children because it's the most
Speaker 3: joyous and wonderful thing you can possibly do with your life.
Speaker 3: And if the very worst comes to the worst and
Speaker 3: you end up divorced and your wife takes half your
Speaker 3: money or more because of the way it's all stewed
Speaker 3: against men, most of it it's going to go to
Speaker 3: your kids in one way or another. And when you
Speaker 3: die or shortly before you die, doesn't matter how much
Speaker 3: material wealth you've got left, or how much has been
Speaker 3: taken off you, fairly or unfairly. All accounts at that
Speaker 3: point is the bit of work that you're able to
Speaker 3: do while you're alive. If you're a very lucky and
Speaker 3: unusual man, perhaps things you said or written which actually
Speaker 3: go on to affect future generations. But for ninety nine
Speaker 3: percent of us, the only thing which survives your life
Speaker 3: going out is the children and grandchildren great grandchildren that
Speaker 3: are left behind you. So stop worrying about it, just
Speaker 3: get on and do it. Well.
Speaker 2: It's something I think, And I'm lucky enough that all
Speaker 2: of my grandparents are still alive. My family has a
Speaker 2: relatively short generational turnaround. But you know, I speak to
Speaker 2: my grandparents and you know the situations that you know,
Speaker 2: they found themselves in when they were first married, they
Speaker 2: were all very young, they were all very poor, and sure,
Speaker 2: you know, they were baby boomers, they were able to
Speaker 2: ride the wave of this great prosperity. But still, I
Speaker 2: mean my grandfather, who I have a great relationship with,
Speaker 2: he was unexpectedly and quickly married to my grandmother. I'll
Speaker 2: leave it at that. And then when on a double
Speaker 2: circumnavigation of the globe, didn't want his son until he
Speaker 2: was a year and a half old. And they're still married.
Speaker 2: They have, you know, a great many grandchildren. And you
Speaker 2: look at that and you're like, okay, well, any situation
Speaker 2: I could find myself in is probably not that difficult.
Speaker 2: They were fine. I'm not going to say that any
Speaker 2: individual moment was easy or pleasant or ideal if you
Speaker 2: were designing it, you know, in a lab right, your
Speaker 2: perfect life. But at a certain point, all right, if
Speaker 2: you're lucky you make it to eighty mid seventies, right,
Speaker 2: if you have my genetics, maybe not even that far right.
Speaker 2: And so at a certain point I understand the desire
Speaker 2: to be prudent, right, to make the correct decision, But
Speaker 2: are you going to wait ten, fifteen to twenty years
Speaker 2: to do that. There's a limited amount of time, and
Speaker 2: you know, especially when and this is something I think
Speaker 2: it's true of both of our countries. The prognosis for
Speaker 2: the near to you know, middle term future doesn't look great.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: It's not like there's a golden age, you know, one election,
Speaker 2: two elections down the line. So it's like, well, to
Speaker 2: be honest, why not start now, Because any of these
Speaker 2: trends you're pointing to, you know, the feminism, the demographics
Speaker 2: are only going to get worse in the short term.
Speaker 2: So if you're waiting for that perfect moment, you're going
Speaker 2: to wait until you're it's too late. And again, don't
Speaker 2: don't take that as an invitation to you know, settle
Speaker 2: down with a stripper or anything. It's not my point
Speaker 2: at all, but to say, look, if you're waiting for
Speaker 2: this kind of perfect hand of cards to be dealt,
Speaker 2: you'll be waiting forever. And the other thing that I
Speaker 2: think is, and sorry I'm just monologuing at you, Nick,
Speaker 2: but we got going, is I think that there there
Speaker 2: is a lot of analysis that's correct about the you know,
Speaker 2: the corrosive nature of these left wing radicals right there,
Speaker 2: their urge to subvert, to attack everything. And you know,
Speaker 2: people will say, oh, you know, older generations don't realize it,
Speaker 2: and that may or may not be true. But if
Speaker 2: you were not fighting that right, if you're just waiting
Speaker 2: for that perfect day, you're waiting for that perfect institution,
Speaker 2: well you're just seating ground. So at a certain point,
Speaker 2: and my friend Ernst Fanziel conscious caricles South African guy
Speaker 2: involved with the you know, solidarity movement down there, has
Speaker 2: this great essay called dig a Trench making exactly this
Speaker 2: point where it's like, look, you know there is a
Speaker 2: tactical decision to retreat, whether physically in an institution, in
Speaker 2: a job. But you don't do that to keep running
Speaker 2: away forever. You go back to build a trench, to
Speaker 2: build something, yeah, defendable. And I think that that is,
Speaker 2: you know, very much the attitude to have and it's
Speaker 2: why I enjoy looking to the South Africans who have
Speaker 2: even in our you know, relatively degraded situation, have it
Speaker 2: much worse than either of us. And they still managed
Speaker 2: to produce some sort of culture, a big ring, yeah.
Speaker 3: And much much worse. Couple of points arise from that.
Speaker 3: They have it much worse than our great grandchildren would
Speaker 3: have or even great great great grandchildren. Because when we
Speaker 3: become a minority in the case of America, in what
Speaker 3: fifteen years time, you're still going to be forty nine
Speaker 3: percent or forty percent or even twenty five percent. You're
Speaker 3: not going to be half a percent, you know, so
Speaker 3: and half a percent in a society with everyone around you,
Speaker 3: and that yes, I know there's tribal differences, but everyone
Speaker 3: around you for a white so that basically, apart from
Speaker 3: in the middle of the cities, everyone around you comes
Speaker 3: from one other ethnic block, which is potentially very hostility
Speaker 3: for various reasons. Even when we're quite a small minority
Speaker 3: in the western countries, that's not going to be the case.
Speaker 3: We're going to be surrounded by all sorts, not by
Speaker 3: one block, but by half a dozen different blocks. Most
Speaker 3: of them just test to test each other and fear
Speaker 3: each other more than us. As a matter of fact,
Speaker 3: so as long as we're a cohesive block within that block.
Speaker 3: It's far from ideal. But we're not as bad as
Speaker 3: the South Africans as badly offers them.
Speaker 2: And as you.
Speaker 3: Say now they are for many white nationalists in Britain,
Speaker 3: Europe and so on, they're figures of some figures to
Speaker 3: look up to because of how they haven't given up
Speaker 3: and they're producing some of the most positive stuff there is.
Speaker 3: Why actually partly because they're really looking at the sharp end,
Speaker 3: so they haven't got the luxury of pretending, well, tell
Speaker 3: you what, we can test elections and at the next
Speaker 3: election we may take power in South Africa. It's so
Speaker 3: patently absurd they can't get down that, you know, down
Speaker 3: the electoral route. The other thing before we move on
Speaker 3: to come back to what you were saying, talking about
Speaker 3: how the boomer generation you had us, or had your
Speaker 3: parents or whatever, there's a strong, rather unfortunate tendency among
Speaker 3: young patricks to look back. You know. It's this sort
Speaker 3: of this age war thing. Are the boomers you know
Speaker 3: you you know, boomer, you know, you're responsible for all
Speaker 3: this and they think they're saying, well, it was easy
Speaker 3: for the boomers to have children, because, like you said,
Speaker 3: you know, there was this there was this enormous economic
Speaker 3: prosperity thing going on. That's with hindsight. If you look
Speaker 3: at the decision of a family of Americans, perhaps a
Speaker 3: husband had just come back from war in the late
Speaker 3: nineteen forties, they've been through a depression, a catastrophic depression,
Speaker 3: and the war. What on earth was there in their
Speaker 3: life experience. We said, you know what, we're going to
Speaker 3: have kids because we're about to enter the most materially
Speaker 3: wonderful time that anyone on the planets have a They
Speaker 3: didn't know that. People in the nineteen sixties having children. Likewise,
Speaker 3: things have been going well for eight or nine years,
Speaker 3: or they've gone well for eight or nine years before
Speaker 3: in the past, includingly just after the First World War,
Speaker 3: there was an economic boom for a few years. So
Speaker 3: when you look back and think what it was easy
Speaker 3: for the boom was they could have kids because you know,
Speaker 3: it was this wonderful time of prosperity. They didn't know it.
Speaker 3: They had children just because it was the natural thing
Speaker 3: to do, and because in many cases, particularly in America,
Speaker 3: to one extending other, as Christians, they believe the Lord
Speaker 3: will provide or just well, I want to do it
Speaker 3: because it's the natural, normal thing to do. And I
Speaker 3: think that we're talked earlier on about the way in
Speaker 3: which the progressives have poisoning everything, absolutely right, and one
Speaker 3: of the worst examples, most powerful examples of how they've
Speaker 3: poisonous poison things, is how they've managed to undermine young
Speaker 3: people's just natural instinct just to go and have kids,
Speaker 3: you know, it's and to feel that perhaps we shouldn't
Speaker 3: bring kids into this world because it's such a mess.
Speaker 3: That's the very reason if you think you're going to
Speaker 3: go potentially into a civil war, that's the very very
Speaker 3: reason why you should have lots of kids, because they
Speaker 3: can help win the civil war, or for that matter,
Speaker 3: if you really think it's going to come to that,
Speaker 3: you have to face reality. If that's what you think
Speaker 3: is coming, then one of your sons is going to
Speaker 3: die in that civil war. Problem For the liberals, at most,
Speaker 3: they've only got one son. That's their line wiped out,
Speaker 3: even if he's a son by the time if he's
Speaker 3: still a son. Indeed, if you've got five or six,
Speaker 3: then well, in pure harsh DNA genetic terms, that's the
Speaker 3: genetic terms. That's the reason you got five or six children,
Speaker 3: because several of them aren't going to make it to adulthood,
Speaker 3: so you have to have the larger number. So for
Speaker 3: every reason, stop worrying about it, stop thinking about it,
Speaker 3: just get on and do it.
Speaker 2: Well. Additionally, and this is something that I have an
Speaker 2: article halfway finished to I need to actually buckle down
Speaker 2: and get ridden. But in a way, that premise the
Speaker 2: boomers had it so good I want what they have
Speaker 2: is understandable. But you're sort of accepting a poison pill
Speaker 2: that the quality of your life is directly material. That's
Speaker 2: what matters as because look, I'm more than willing to
Speaker 2: accept that. You know, if you and I got exactly
Speaker 2: what we wanted, you know, massive remigration restrictions on any
Speaker 2: number of different things, it's entirely possible that we would
Speaker 2: lose a lot of the benefits of globalization. Right like
Speaker 2: this podcast, Mike that I'm speaking to you through. I
Speaker 2: bought off the Internet. It was manufactured by Chinese child
Speaker 2: slaves for next to nothing. And if I were to
Speaker 2: get everything I want, I might well be poor. I
Speaker 2: would not be able to make as many consumer choices.
Speaker 2: I would have less disposable income. And so you could
Speaker 2: look at that and say, oh, well, my life would
Speaker 2: be worse, and it's like, well, no, there is something
Speaker 2: that matters more than simply that material condition. And so
Speaker 2: even if we steal man that position and we say, yes,
Speaker 2: the Baby Boomers were relatively the wealthiest generation in history, well,
Speaker 2: two things. One that let us hear right, even if
Speaker 2: we could simply turn the clock back, you know, there
Speaker 2: is such a thing as Dutch disease. But also look
Speaker 2: like we have to accept that there may well be
Speaker 2: a trade off, and that trade off may be you know,
Speaker 2: relatively speaking, less wealth. But in my mind, what matters
Speaker 2: more is being connected to a culture, having a people,
Speaker 2: having something alive that you are a part of, instead
Speaker 2: of simply you know, maximizing how many consumer choices you
Speaker 2: can make, you know, being able to you know, participate
Speaker 2: in the great global strip mall. And I think that
Speaker 2: it's it's always tragic when I see people who are
Speaker 2: accurately critiquing the system but ultimately share the exact same,
Speaker 2: just core premise. They are simply aggrieved that they are
Speaker 2: not on the receiving side, that they are not getting
Speaker 2: the gibs. And I again, I have a great many
Speaker 2: friends who are white nationalists. I'm not talking about them,
Speaker 2: but you see that in this circle as well. Or
Speaker 2: it's basically they want gibbs for white people. You know,
Speaker 2: they want to be you know, receiving all of those
Speaker 2: things and look like you know, obviously I'm not some
Speaker 2: you know, free market lunatic libertariat. But if you've ever
Speaker 2: been around recipients of welfare, I'll leave it at that.
Speaker 2: In America, that's not a good life. Sure, it is
Speaker 2: not the same problems you're receiving now, you know, with
Speaker 2: the racial discrimination, but that clearly breeds its own problems.
Speaker 2: And I care enough for my people, I care enough
Speaker 2: for my culture that I don't want to see. You know,
Speaker 2: this is kind of like a Jesse Jackson for white people,
Speaker 2: right that reduced to simply another one of these kind
Speaker 2: of pathetic grievance groups. Unconnected, but it is something that
Speaker 2: I do worry about a lot when I look at,
Speaker 2: as you said, the kind of younger patriots. One more
Speaker 2: thing I'm actually curious to get your thought on. You
Speaker 2: mentioned islamification right in your country. We're a little bit
Speaker 2: behind the curve there, but boy, are we catching up.
Speaker 2: And one of the things that and I realized it
Speaker 2: is difficult to talk about, not you know, for our sakes,
Speaker 2: but for the sake of YouTube that you see in
Speaker 2: this discussion is the interaction between opposition to Islam and
Speaker 2: support for a certain Middle Eastern democracy. So obviously I
Speaker 2: feel like I can I can guess your opinions on
Speaker 2: both of those those topics. But how do you go
Speaker 2: about threading that needle? Because it seems very easy to
Speaker 2: fall into the counter g hod playbook. I mean, I
Speaker 2: don't know if you know him, but like I look
Speaker 2: at figures like you know Tommy Robinson and others and
Speaker 2: not looking to I don't know the guy. I'm not
Speaker 2: trying to trash talk him, but you see where he
Speaker 2: gets his money, right, So how do you go about
Speaker 2: threading that needle? In England?
Speaker 3: Well, I wrote a report What Lies behind the English
Speaker 3: defensely in twenty twelve, when taking research from the Internet
Speaker 3: because material was, if he dug far enough, was out
Speaker 3: there in the public domain already. This report proved conclusively
Speaker 3: that the whole EDL Tommy Robinson thing was from the
Speaker 3: very beginning set up by very dark forces from the
Speaker 3: United States based in the United states, absolutely no question
Speaker 3: about it. And it's one of those things that it's
Speaker 3: even more relevant now than it was then when you've
Speaker 3: got It's not just Tommy by any means. It's a
Speaker 3: huge range of opinion formers in alternative media, ranging from
Speaker 3: total crackpots posting anonymously on social media and so on,
Speaker 3: right through to some of the major television corporations who
Speaker 3: are pushing this clashes of civilizations. The Muslims are going
Speaker 3: to come and they're going to take over your society,
Speaker 3: Your grandchildren, granddaughters will be wearing burkers, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 3: And yes, there is obviously a problem with Islamification, and
Speaker 3: there are whole areas of British cities which now look
Speaker 3: more like Karachi than they do traditional Britain. Yes, that's
Speaker 3: a problem. But in the end, I say how do
Speaker 3: you thread it? Will you say, well, where did this
Speaker 3: problem come from? Because to go around trying to deal
Speaker 3: with the problem without understanding its origin is a very
Speaker 3: foolish position. Whatever the problem may be, If it's a
Speaker 3: slight electric shock you're getting in your bathroom and you
Speaker 3: only worry about the shock that the TAP's giving you,
Speaker 3: a bit of a shock, rather than thinking where's that
Speaker 3: electricity coming from and what's wrong. You're never going to
Speaker 3: solve the problem. Sooner related you're going to you know,
Speaker 3: too much electricity is going to come through, you're going
Speaker 3: to fry. So you've got to look at the problem.
Speaker 3: And of course when you look at the problem, you
Speaker 3: find that is the Islamification of Europe is part of
Speaker 3: the browning of Europe. And this is not some just
Speaker 3: natural quirk or catastrophe. It's been planned and imposed upon
Speaker 3: us by the very people who are now saying you've
Speaker 3: got to go and fight those wicked Muslims. So it
Speaker 3: is very, very difficult to deal with because our people
Speaker 3: have a genuine problem with is Iramification and with large
Speaker 3: numbers of Pakistanis and so on. But again you're not
Speaker 3: going to deal well. You can try and deal with
Speaker 3: that problem with fighting them and the people who are
Speaker 3: pushing us towards civil war. If they were pushing us
Speaker 3: towards a civil war on the basis that look, we're
Speaker 3: going to have it at some point, it's better to
Speaker 3: have it now, or there's still relatively more of us
Speaker 3: than them, and if they were saying, which people could
Speaker 3: from the safety of America. If you're going to have
Speaker 3: a civil war, you need in order to win it,
Speaker 3: you need to begin now doing ab C and D.
Speaker 3: They we're doing that have some sympathy for it, but
Speaker 3: they are absolutely clearly trying to push and pushure us
Speaker 3: into a civil war, certainly in Western Europe and Britain,
Speaker 3: not on the basis that if we win it, we
Speaker 3: can get country back, because these very sane people are
Speaker 3: all saying that immigration from Africa and India, as long
Speaker 3: as they're not Muslims, that's absolutely fine. And the thing
Speaker 3: the problem with the Muslims is they won't integrate. If
Speaker 3: they'll only integrate with us, so their children will marry
Speaker 3: our children, wouldn't it be wonderful. But they're standing in
Speaker 3: their own communities insisting on their Sharia law. Well, I
Speaker 3: say thank God for that, because if they were simply
Speaker 3: part of our melting pot, our melting pot would be
Speaker 3: even more corrosive and efficient in terms of getting rid
Speaker 3: of us. So these people do not have the interests
Speaker 3: of our people at stake. So I'm damned if I'm
Speaker 3: cold to fight their war any more than I want
Speaker 3: to fight the other side of the global elites. War
Speaker 3: new against Russia and Ukraine. Absolutely not none. None of
Speaker 3: their wars have been any damn use. They've all We've
Speaker 3: been lied into all of them. And all our people
Speaker 3: get out of wars is suffering death and higher tax bills.
Speaker 3: And it's the same with the whole lots of them.
Speaker 3: So you have to try and alert people to do it.
Speaker 3: In the end, I think we're reaching the points in
Speaker 3: Britain where huge numbers of people are not just hardcore nationalists,
Speaker 3: but even broader than that. The people actually comment in
Speaker 3: the newspaper and the comments sections of mainstream newspapers, so
Speaker 3: many people have got a pretty good grasp of what
Speaker 3: is going on that we're getting to the stage where
Speaker 3: we need to stop. And it's always tainting because it's
Speaker 3: such outrage and you feel it's you've got to try
Speaker 3: and wake every last person up. But we probably need
Speaker 3: to stop talking so much about the problems. If people
Speaker 3: don't understand the problems by now, they're probably either so
Speaker 3: stupid or so cowardly are or so scared that they're
Speaker 3: not going to understand them, or they're going to keep
Speaker 3: on pretending they don't understand them. We need to talk
Speaker 3: about practical solutions, which are people, whether it's individual activists,
Speaker 3: families or communities, can do in their own lives to
Speaker 3: to advance our cause. So especially as certainly in Britain
Speaker 3: anywhere where you've got the extreme repression now of freedom
Speaker 3: of speech. But even in the States, so you still
Speaker 3: got the Second Amendment if you get a Democrat government
Speaker 3: in two years time. How long that will last is
Speaker 3: another matter. But even regardless of that, when you say
Speaker 3: you have to be careful about what you're speaking about
Speaker 3: because of YouTube and so on, and similar in you
Speaker 3: even more so Facebook, et cetera, et cetera, you're already
Speaker 3: under a degree in the United States of repression of
Speaker 3: your freedom of speech. So it becomes more and more
Speaker 3: the more you talk about the problems, the more you're
Speaker 3: likely to face the shadow bands and so on, and
Speaker 3: the restrictions, which means you reach few people. So that's
Speaker 3: where as I say, I think we get into the
Speaker 3: stage when all of us really need to make a conscious,
Speaker 3: disciplined effort to talk less about the problems and more
Speaker 3: about the practical answers in our own lives.
Speaker 2: To that point, I mean, you're entirely correct about that.
Speaker 2: That relationship between I mean starting wars, you know, sort
Speaker 2: of transforming demographics, and then you know, demanding even more
Speaker 2: efforts to you know, now correct certain accesses again for
Speaker 2: that same end goal. I mean, in my case, there
Speaker 2: really were no Muslims in America before September eleven. Of course,
Speaker 2: you know, a few here and there, but certainly in
Speaker 2: no real numbers. And you know, I think of talking
Speaker 2: to one of my friends. I was too young. I was,
Speaker 2: you know, a child during most of the Global War
Speaker 2: on Terror, but I knew a great many people who
Speaker 2: were involved, particularly who now are in kind of their
Speaker 2: mid to early forties. And I remember talking to one
Speaker 2: of them and he said, you know, I saw a
Speaker 2: lot of horrible things. I you know, went through a lot,
Speaker 2: and I never had shell shocker PTSD except for once.
Speaker 2: And he said that he had come back. He was
Speaker 2: in California, and he went to Walmart and he rounded
Speaker 2: the corner and there were three women in burkas yea,
Speaker 2: And of course it was you know, sort of a
Speaker 2: nervous system level response. But he described that as a
Speaker 2: very disheartening revelation, like wait a minute, you know he
Speaker 2: had bought the line hook you know, hook line and
Speaker 2: sinker and you can't blame him, right. The guy was
Speaker 2: seventeen doing what he thought was right, and you know,
Speaker 2: those individual actions he did were heroic. But at the
Speaker 2: same time, these guys got played. We all got played.
Speaker 2: And now you know that line of we fight them
Speaker 2: over there so we don't have to fight them over here.
Speaker 2: You're like, well, you brought everyone back. You know, everyone
Speaker 2: every time. You know, there was one in northern Virginia
Speaker 2: not too long ago, or an Afghan guy you know,
Speaker 2: shot up a number of police officers. There was another
Speaker 2: one out of somewhere in the Midwest. I think it
Speaker 2: was Detroit. I can't remember. I could name almost any
Speaker 2: city and it would be true even if it's not
Speaker 2: the exact one I'm thinking of. And it is very
Speaker 2: much like, wait a minute, I thought this was the
Speaker 2: whole point. And of course, you know, people have been
Speaker 2: drawing attention to that for a long time. But you know,
Speaker 2: the idea that, oh now it's time to you know,
Speaker 2: get on side for the next conflict. You're like, wait
Speaker 2: a minute, I don't necessarily like the Islamification of my nation,
Speaker 2: but fool me once, fool me twice. And about talking
Speaker 2: about about solutions, I think there's something to that. And
Speaker 2: you know, I'm part of a you know, a fraternal
Speaker 2: group in the US, the Old Glory Club, and it's
Speaker 2: been crazy. I was, you know, one of the founding
Speaker 2: members and to watch it grow in you know, a
Speaker 2: few years, from fifteen guys in a conference room to
Speaker 2: now I went to my local chapter. There's you know,
Speaker 2: dozens up at this point in my small town and
Speaker 2: there are sixty guys from around my community hanging out together.
Speaker 2: And it's it's incredibly positive because you know, I'll and
Speaker 2: I'll probably listen to this and send me a message.
Speaker 2: But I met a guy there who's, you know, cabinet maker,
Speaker 2: so he's making cabinets for me, and it's like, okay,
Speaker 2: well there's no political advantage to that. But all of
Speaker 2: a sudden, it's like, well, I've got a network. I've
Speaker 2: got dozens of guys that I can you know, reach
Speaker 2: out to. Sure in the immediate next two weeks term.
Speaker 2: Does that get us some political victory. No, But at
Speaker 2: the same time, it's a way better solution than sitting
Speaker 2: at home getting upset about what you see on the screen.
Speaker 2: You have guys that you can you can talk to,
Speaker 2: you can build something with and also you now have
Speaker 2: a you know, a huge network of support, and to me,
Speaker 2: that sort of and you know that the pagan types
Speaker 2: referred as to you know, building your tribe. You know,
Speaker 2: there are other terms for it as well. But to me,
Speaker 2: that is both the easiest thing to do and the
Speaker 2: best preparation for whatever may kind of come down the pike.
Speaker 3: Absolutely so, I mean, there's the minute. The alternative to
Speaker 3: that is the political road. And it puzzles me how
Speaker 3: people are supposedly conscious nationalists and they've read all the
Speaker 3: right nationalist texts and so on. How on earth do
Speaker 3: those people, out of anybody full for this democracy fetish?
Speaker 3: And the the crux of it is that the whole
Speaker 3: political thing, the idea of the uniparty, isn't widely understood
Speaker 3: just because it's a clever idea. It is because it's
Speaker 3: a fact that a large part of the point of
Speaker 3: giving people the idea that they can vote blue or
Speaker 3: red is in order to distract them from the realities
Speaker 3: of power and so on, to give them an artificial
Speaker 3: belief that what they do really changes things, and that
Speaker 3: to put their faith in the people up there on
Speaker 3: the pedestal. And if the appalling revelations in the Epstein
Speaker 3: the latest way of Epstein things show people anything it
Speaker 3: should be to understand that this is not a specific
Speaker 3: problem of one pedophile or one little group and one
Speaker 3: group of the political elites are within it. They're all
Speaker 3: of them wrapped up in this thing. That's the nature
Speaker 3: of the beast. We are ruled by a self selected,
Speaker 3: self perpetuating elite which at some stage in the past,
Speaker 3: whether it's in ancient Babylon or in the last forty
Speaker 3: years or somewhere between it, at some stage in the
Speaker 3: past it's become artly corrupt, artly evil. And the idea
Speaker 3: that you're going to change anything connected with that crowd,
Speaker 3: that crowd with what you do in your own life,
Speaker 3: it's nonsensical. Whereas as you were saying there, when you've
Speaker 3: got sixty men in your community, there's so much can
Speaker 3: be done with that, I detinue it's already making people's
Speaker 3: lives better, because you know, if you look at one
Speaker 3: of the key statistics which decides quite apart from you
Speaker 3: was talking earlier on about your genetics and so on,
Speaker 3: a key metric as to whether or not you're going
Speaker 3: to live to a ripe old age or not is
Speaker 3: whether you've got friends at a circle of friends, you know,
Speaker 3: that's it. So if making everyone's life better and for
Speaker 3: that case matter in a small town, it doesn't actually
Speaker 3: matter what sort of challenge befalls your small town community
Speaker 3: in the future. If they're sixty like minded men in
Speaker 3: a core, then you've got a good chance of your
Speaker 3: community rising to meet that challenge. And if those sixty
Speaker 3: good men are actually half of them in the Democrats,
Speaker 3: as they say would have been back in the nineteen fifties,
Speaker 3: half of them staunch Democrats, half of them stage Republicans,
Speaker 3: straight away your community has got this division right down
Speaker 3: the middle of it, which people who really wish you
Speaker 3: ill will play upon. And while you're busy hating each
Speaker 3: other or worrying about each other, all sorts of bad
Speaker 3: things happen to you. So for our people to withdraw
Speaker 3: from the game of party politics actually doesn't mean that
Speaker 3: we're drawn from politics. Because politics, if you look at
Speaker 3: the actual meaning of it, the Greek word, it's about
Speaker 3: the police, it's about the city, it's about the community.
Speaker 3: And the last thing people who really want to do politics,
Speaker 3: real politics worthwhile politics should be doing is getting involved
Speaker 3: in the party politics, which is a fake version, deliberate
Speaker 3: design to make people waste their time.
Speaker 2: Well, Nick, I'll have you know, I'm not sure if
Speaker 2: you're aware that you know one Jeffrey Epstein was both.
Speaker 2: I'm not quite sure how this works, but he was
Speaker 2: both an Islamicist and an agent of the KGB, which
Speaker 2: is remarkably convenient. Indeed, you're entire you're entirely corrected.
Speaker 3: I was.
Speaker 2: I was just talking to my wife about this because,
Speaker 2: you know, my state has undergone a significant shift to
Speaker 2: the left in one election, and you know, the the
Speaker 2: government seems you know, quite content to just ruin the
Speaker 2: life of anyone productive. But point is, and she made
Speaker 2: a you know, a quite quite incisive point where she's like,
Speaker 2: I don't understand why everyone's always talking about national politics,
Speaker 2: and this is what actually matters, right, saying like that
Speaker 2: the kind of you know, huge you know, dog and
Speaker 2: pony show things are said, but your life doesn't change,
Speaker 2: whereas you know, a much less exciting election all of
Speaker 2: a sudden, you know, I my life has significantly changed
Speaker 2: for the worse, and that matters even more so down
Speaker 2: to the you know, and where I live, right the
Speaker 2: county and state and city government level, because of course, right,
Speaker 2: which goons actually get sent to deal with you, like, okay,
Speaker 2: if you if you really mess up, it is the
Speaker 2: FBI you get you get a black helicopter, in which
Speaker 2: case you're probably screwed anyway, right, But in most cases
Speaker 2: it's you know, your local sheriff, your local police department.
Speaker 2: And it's become sort of a truism, but it is
Speaker 2: there's something to it. And you know, I think about this,
Speaker 2: you know, during the pandemic where you know, sure there
Speaker 2: were national or state level laws, but living in a bubble,
Speaker 2: it didn't matter because the local police wasn't going to
Speaker 2: do anything. So sure it's illegal, but functionally, you know,
Speaker 2: you could still do whatever you want it. And I
Speaker 2: think that you know, the the entertainment level, the number
Speaker 2: of eyes on, you know, the big picture stuff. You know,
Speaker 2: what did Donald Trump say? You know, who performed at
Speaker 2: the super Bowl? How gay was he? Answers? Very But
Speaker 2: all of that, you know, takes up so much time
Speaker 2: that I think it blinds people to what actually, you know, matters.
Speaker 2: And look, I understand it, right, I'm certainly guilty of
Speaker 2: talking about Trump or whatever, perhaps more than I should
Speaker 2: but especially from a relative position of weakness. And I
Speaker 2: mean that very specifically, not that we are weak people,
Speaker 2: but very clearly the government doesn't listen to what you
Speaker 2: and I want to do. You sort of have to,
Speaker 2: you know, choose a you know, choose a playing field
Speaker 2: where you actually can matter. We actually can't do something.
Speaker 3: Yep, absolutely, God, you shouldn't use the word weakness. It's
Speaker 3: the correct word would be powerlessness. And you're automatically powerless
Speaker 3: in terms of what's what's happening in the whole of
Speaker 3: the United States. But if you are not personally weak,
Speaker 3: and if your friends and friendship circle isn't personally weak,
Speaker 3: then you have power in your own community's and you
Speaker 3: can have and you can increase that power, and he
Speaker 3: can do things which actually make a difference, whereas at
Speaker 3: the national level you can't. So we've got a problem
Speaker 3: with powerlessness, and we can address it as long as
Speaker 3: we have realistic games and working in a field where
Speaker 3: we can actually make a difference.
Speaker 2: Well, and I think of you know, the leader of
Speaker 2: the Virginia o GC chapter. I know that he has
Speaker 2: been and I can't say his name for a number
Speaker 2: of reasons, but I know that he and some of
Speaker 2: his friends have been involving themselves with you know, local
Speaker 2: institutions primarily staffed by older people. And I haven't told
Speaker 2: him this you probably very embarrassed by did but actually
Speaker 2: sort of took inspiration from him and realize that if
Speaker 2: you are a young man who has even a monoicum
Speaker 2: of competence and drive, you can advance incredibly quickly through
Speaker 2: an institution that is staffed by people in their seventies,
Speaker 2: and they will love you for it, because, as you've said,
Speaker 2: you know both going back to you know the importance
Speaker 2: of having friends. But the Internet has massively isolated people
Speaker 2: and so many of these institutions, you know, Putnam's Bowling
Speaker 2: alone chronicled this generation and a half ago are dying
Speaker 2: on the vine because there is no youth presence. And
Speaker 2: it's sort of stupid to say, but you can just
Speaker 2: do things and you will be surrounded by how quickly
Speaker 2: you can advance because there is no one else to
Speaker 2: compete against.
Speaker 3: Yep, do you have in the United States? Do you
Speaker 3: have a network in different towns and so on of
Speaker 3: veterans clubs or not? Yes, actual physical veterans clubs as
Speaker 3: we have them in Britain. In Britain generally it's they
Speaker 3: wrote a British Legion which was created shortly after the
Speaker 3: First World War, and in some places in place of
Speaker 3: a war memorial, they decided to build a village hall instead,
Speaker 3: or say the Royal British Legion place. And they've got clubs,
Speaker 3: let their bars and so on up and down the
Speaker 3: country and there. Obviously, I asked, do you have it
Speaker 3: in the States? You do, because I think anyone will
Speaker 3: find if you go near any of those the game.
Speaker 3: As you're saying, they're committee members, they're all in the seventies.
Speaker 3: It's a demographic problem. So obviously, if a group were
Speaker 3: to go in and say, right, we're going to take
Speaker 3: it over, and in due course we'll get rid of
Speaker 3: the American flag or the British flag and will have
Speaker 3: a far better flag in its place, obviously that's going
Speaker 3: to be a note y you know where that is
Speaker 3: going to end. But if people approach it genuinely and
Speaker 3: not in a cynical way and get involved in that, then,
Speaker 3: especially if one person can do it, then a little
Speaker 3: bit further down the line, they can assist a friend
Speaker 3: here to come in and so on and in due course,
Speaker 3: just automatically you take it over. You say, if you're
Speaker 3: taking it over for bad ends, whether actually that, they're
Speaker 3: already quite well set up to defend against that, because
Speaker 3: for decades, any little bunch of conven criminal, if they
Speaker 3: could get into a group like that, take it over
Speaker 3: and then sell it off and pocket the proceeds. That's
Speaker 3: what human beings do. Unfortunately, some people are plain bad
Speaker 3: it would have happened, so they defended against takeovers, but
Speaker 3: they're certainly not defended against younger people coming forward, getting
Speaker 3: involved and becoming the people who run it in the future.
Speaker 3: And if you control something like that, then again, if
Speaker 3: you have some kind of catastrophe, then rather than your
Speaker 3: people in that community sitting around of running around the
Speaker 3: headless chickens, which is what people tend to do in
Speaker 3: a catastrophe, and I think they're going to see it more,
Speaker 3: especially with people a generation bought up on the Internet
Speaker 3: without therefore any real normal social skills. Not their own fault,
Speaker 3: it's just the way it is. Then increasingly, something bad
Speaker 3: happens in your community, whether it's something bad because of them,
Speaker 3: if you're thinking in ethnic terms or for any other reason,
Speaker 3: then your community's had a disadvantage because there's no hardcore
Speaker 3: at the center of it. Whereas if in addition to
Speaker 3: your sixty people, you also have the absolute use of
Speaker 3: a club building and everything that goes with it, well
Speaker 3: around that you can instantly build a relief center for
Speaker 3: whatever's happened, and can instantly then say to people, come
Speaker 3: and meet us here, you know, and we've got supplies here,
Speaker 3: and we've got a kitchen here where we can cook
Speaker 3: for two hundred people, whatever it is. Having an asset
Speaker 3: like that is so important that it gives you the
Speaker 3: power to respond to all sorts of things, whatever it
Speaker 3: might be in the future, rather than spending all your time,
Speaker 3: like we was saying, worrying about Biden, Trump, whoever was
Speaker 3: going to succeed them and so on, which is in
Speaker 3: the end, you're worrying about something you make no difference
Speaker 3: to and even if you did, it wouldn't make any
Speaker 3: difference to your people on the ground.
Speaker 2: Well, and something that I think is important to say
Speaker 2: is that you could look at this and say, oh,
Speaker 2: you know, you're trying to inject yourself into this institution
Speaker 2: and take it over like a cancer. No, no, not
Speaker 2: at all. You believe in to you, listener, you believe
Speaker 2: in the truest version of something that these institutions were
Speaker 2: already designed to do. You have almost a more unadulterated
Speaker 2: or a purer version of that vision. They're pointing the
Speaker 2: same direction. And one of the things I've noticed speaking
Speaker 2: to older people leave it at that, is that many
Speaker 2: of them, particularly if they are we'll just say conservative aligned,
Speaker 2: are incredibly beat down because their entire life they have
Speaker 2: been told this thing that you love is evil and
Speaker 2: horrible and bad, and ever going back is impossible, and
Speaker 2: everyone younger than you hates you and resents you unless
Speaker 2: you say this, this and this, and you don't need
Speaker 2: to be weird about it. But I've seen this happen
Speaker 2: multiple times, where it's like a weight dropping off their back.
Speaker 2: It's like, oh, you're like me, and internally you're like, well,
Speaker 2: I'm I'm a little more than that, but you know,
Speaker 2: we'll go ahead for the sake of the conversation. And
Speaker 2: so particularly a historical societies, you know, people who are
Speaker 2: passionate about their culture, passionate about the place they live,
Speaker 2: they often have to walk on eggshells, you know, asked
Speaker 2: as if you know, like, oh, we can't ever say that,
Speaker 2: and if there is an injection of youthful vigor of
Speaker 2: people who share that common understanding and can basically say like, no,
Speaker 2: you don't need to apologize to me. Yes, I see
Speaker 2: what you want and it is good. Again. You can
Speaker 2: you can do quite well. But Nick, we are coming
Speaker 2: up on time. Last time, unfortunately the software kicked us
Speaker 2: out before we could get to where people can find you. So, Nick,
Speaker 2: where are you on the internet?
Speaker 3: Right? I'm on X although there's one account there, Nick
Speaker 3: Griffin bu, which has got sixty two thousand followers, but
Speaker 3: it's dead. It was hacked and mister Musk or his
Speaker 3: lackies will not give it back to me, so ignore
Speaker 3: that one. So I'm on X a small scaled Nick
Speaker 3: Griffin BTP that's Bravo, Tango Papa. I'm on Telegram t
Speaker 3: do Amy forward slash Nick Griffin capital in capital G.
Speaker 3: If it matters, had done, if it is, if it
Speaker 3: does most importantly of all, I do most of my
Speaker 3: serious work now on substack. So I'm substack. I'm on substack.
Speaker 3: It's Nick Griffin Beyond the Pale, and that's where I'm
Speaker 3: putting the in particular series I'm writing at presents with
Speaker 3: the working title what is to be Done, which is
Speaker 3: just about where do we go from here? Because I
Speaker 3: see most nationalists, people who claim to be nationalist thinkers,
Speaker 3: without a brain in their heads. I'm afraid coming up
Speaker 3: with all sorts of crazed ideas. I think I've got
Speaker 3: the experience to have some far better ideas as to
Speaker 3: where we should be going. I suffer a degree of
Speaker 3: guilt because perhaps certainly in Britain there's the nationalist organization
Speaker 3: group Blitz around are almost all on crazed paths, very
Speaker 3: dangerous paths. For a degree of guilt because perhaps they're
Speaker 3: there because for ten years at the end of the BNP,
Speaker 3: I just left them to it, hoping that the young
Speaker 3: generation would come up with some great ideas. Well, they
Speaker 3: haven't done. So therefore I've got a duty. I'm afraid
Speaker 3: I've got to come back. So I say to people,
Speaker 3: if you think what I did in the past was
Speaker 3: useful and good and so on, I actually believe that
Speaker 3: my most important work is still to come, not least
Speaker 3: as I've got the experience. I think I said last time.
Speaker 3: It's not just my experience, it's the fact that I've
Speaker 3: got fifty plus years of experience in this game. Sometimes
Speaker 3: it is a game, sometimes it's great fun. But in turn,
Speaker 3: in that time, I've met people who were there ten
Speaker 3: years before. I've met men who were at Cable Street
Speaker 3: with Mosley and so on and spoken with them. I've
Speaker 3: met men who served in the armed forces of every
Speaker 3: major combatant in the Second World War, and quite a
Speaker 3: few from the First World War and so on. So
Speaker 3: there's an awful lot of experience there, other people's experience
Speaker 3: which I'm working to distill to give to the next generation.
Speaker 3: So the place I do it is on substack. Nick
Speaker 3: Griffin Beyond the Pale, and please have you not already
Speaker 3: on there, Come and join. It's a great app. It's
Speaker 3: free and it's very easy to use.
Speaker 2: I highly recommend your substack one. That's how I found you.
Speaker 2: Substack is become sort of the who's who of you know,
Speaker 2: everyone from early the last thirty years of interesting politics.
Speaker 2: I'll leave it at that. It is also a source
Speaker 2: of some of the worst essays I've ever read in
Speaker 2: my life, so I try to limit my amount of
Speaker 2: time on there, but I highly recommend Nick's work. That
Speaker 2: series has been great. You know, I was sort of
Speaker 2: reading through it in preparation for our first interview, so
Speaker 2: highly recommend that all will be linked in the description.
Speaker 2: As far as my stuff, the Jay Burton Show, Apple, Spotify, YouTube,
Speaker 2: anywhere you listen to podcasts. If you want to support me,
Speaker 2: this is what I do professionally, you could throw a
Speaker 2: few bucks my way on Patreon, Substack or gum road.
Speaker 2: The business model is basically, if you pay me, you
Speaker 2: gheit the episodes a few days early with no ads
Speaker 2: to the same content. I'm not hiding anything from you,
Speaker 2: but it's a way to, you know, help me support myself.
Speaker 2: I actually it's funny. I always say that it comes
Speaker 2: out to like twenty cents an hour, but when I
Speaker 2: was at this event, some guy came up to me
Speaker 2: and he said, no, I actually did it. It's eighteen cents.
Speaker 2: So if you think that what I do is worth
Speaker 2: you know, eighteen sense for what you listen to, you know,
Speaker 2: maybe you can also check out our sponsor, Axious Remote
Speaker 2: Fitness Coaching. JD is very very adept at building a community,
Speaker 2: both just with the fitness guys and also in his
Speaker 2: personal life. You should support him. It's one of our
Speaker 2: guys has a business. Again, Nick This was a ton
Speaker 2: of fun man, I appreciate it.
Speaker 3: Thank you. Great fun. I hope to be with you again.
Speaker 2: Everyone home, keep your head up well. I can't last forever.
Speaker 2: Good Night,