WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.200 --> 00:00:01.520 Don't be ridiculous. 2 00:00:01.800 --> 00:00:05.320 As president of Planet Spaceball, I can assure both you 3 00:00:05.400 --> 00:00:09.919 and your viewers that there's absolutely no air shortage whatsoever. 4 00:00:10.400 --> 00:00:14.039 Yes, of course I've heard the same room with myself. Yes, 5 00:00:14.080 --> 00:00:19.679 thanks for calling and not reversing the chargers yet. Bye, Shihead. 6 00:00:52.640 --> 00:00:55.640 Welcome to Amusing Jews, where we celebrate Jewish contributors and 7 00:00:55.640 --> 00:01:00.240 contributions to American popular culture. I'm Jonathan Friedman and I'm 8 00:01:00.320 --> 00:01:04.400 Joey Angelfield producer engineer Mike Tomren is working somewhere behind 9 00:01:04.400 --> 00:01:07.000 the scenes. Amusing Jews is a project of a dot 10 00:01:07.079 --> 00:01:10.959 Jabourine Congregation for Humanistic Judaism, the Jewish Museum of the 11 00:01:10.959 --> 00:01:15.760 American West, and Atheist United Studios. Hey, Joey, the pen 12 00:01:15.879 --> 00:01:18.840 may be mightier than the sword, but is it mightier 13 00:01:18.879 --> 00:01:21.599 than the apocalyptic threat of climate change? 14 00:01:21.840 --> 00:01:24.840 We're honored to chat with Peter Cooper, a prolific cartoonist 15 00:01:24.840 --> 00:01:27.400 whose work has appeared in The New Yorker, The Nation, 16 00:01:27.840 --> 00:01:31.959 Charlie Ebdoh, and Mad Magazine. He's the author of numerous books, 17 00:01:32.079 --> 00:01:36.840 including the graphic novels kafka Esque and Insectopolis, a Natural History. 18 00:01:37.640 --> 00:01:40.879 His latest book, Wish We Weren't here. Postcards from the 19 00:01:40.879 --> 00:01:46.200 Apocalypse is published by Fanographics. Peter, Welcome to Amusing Jews. 20 00:01:46.400 --> 00:01:47.439 Well, thanks for having me. 21 00:01:47.680 --> 00:01:52.560 You call pencils, pens, watercolors, and photoshop your weapons. Could 22 00:01:52.599 --> 00:01:53.120 you explain? 23 00:01:53.480 --> 00:01:56.599 Well, I mean, I'm hopefully you performing like a doctor, 24 00:01:56.640 --> 00:01:59.439 and I'm doing an operation on the problems that I'm encountering. 25 00:01:59.760 --> 00:02:04.840 And so that's my scalpel, and you know, my various knives, 26 00:02:04.959 --> 00:02:08.840 and it's the way that I'm able to communicate these ideas. 27 00:02:09.240 --> 00:02:12.520 So I feel like it functions that way, and or 28 00:02:12.680 --> 00:02:16.919 knows more and more, we're experiencing the notion that talking 29 00:02:16.919 --> 00:02:20.120 about things that are actually going on is a threat. 30 00:02:20.240 --> 00:02:25.560 So apparently those pencils, pins, et cetera are our weapons 31 00:02:25.560 --> 00:02:26.639 of a form. 32 00:02:27.039 --> 00:02:29.280 You got into comics when you were a lad, Did 33 00:02:29.319 --> 00:02:32.039 you always have a sense that they have this special power. 34 00:02:32.240 --> 00:02:35.080 I was working on a fanzine starting when I was eleven. 35 00:02:35.840 --> 00:02:38.159 Seth to Bachmann and I, who grew up in Cleveland, 36 00:02:38.199 --> 00:02:42.159 together did our first fanzine, which was called Fanzine with 37 00:02:42.199 --> 00:02:45.439 a pH. We were way before a fat you know. 38 00:02:46.520 --> 00:02:50.960 And then we did the official magazine of the Cleveland 39 00:02:50.960 --> 00:02:56.719 Graphic Arts Society, Gaslight as it was called, and so 40 00:02:56.879 --> 00:02:59.599 I was deeply, deeply into comics and going to comic 41 00:02:59.599 --> 00:03:03.599 convention in New York and Detroit, and when they came 42 00:03:03.639 --> 00:03:08.000 to Cleveland those two and so I was always attached 43 00:03:08.039 --> 00:03:12.199 to comics, but aiden started drawing them seriously until really, 44 00:03:13.520 --> 00:03:15.840 pretty relatively late. I mean, there was a point where 45 00:03:15.879 --> 00:03:18.439 I was drawing. When I started, when I was maybe fifteen, 46 00:03:18.759 --> 00:03:21.599 I was having a sketchbook, but I wasn't drawing comics, 47 00:03:21.599 --> 00:03:25.159 and I was daunted by the prospect of doing that. 48 00:03:25.199 --> 00:03:28.719 But when I started to draw comics, I realized that 49 00:03:29.439 --> 00:03:33.439 osmosis or whatever takes place from all, you know, reading 50 00:03:33.599 --> 00:03:36.680 a million comics was it was in there. And so 51 00:03:36.759 --> 00:03:40.400 when I started to try to do that, I started 52 00:03:40.439 --> 00:03:43.000 I had, you know, my sense of storytelling and all 53 00:03:43.039 --> 00:03:46.479 that was more built in than you know. I didn't 54 00:03:46.479 --> 00:03:49.639 realize how much that had seeped into my consciousness. 55 00:03:49.879 --> 00:03:53.240 You co founded the graphics magazine World War Three Illustrated 56 00:03:53.240 --> 00:03:55.840 in nineteen seventy nine. How did that come about? 57 00:03:56.000 --> 00:03:58.840 Well, seth to Bachman from Cleveland. You know, we'd done 58 00:03:58.879 --> 00:04:02.599 a fanzine. He moved to New York. Then I followed 59 00:04:02.639 --> 00:04:05.879 him to New York. He was at Nyu in film school, 60 00:04:06.240 --> 00:04:09.039 and then we both ended up at Pratt Institute and 61 00:04:11.400 --> 00:04:14.439 we both were really into comics, and I thought, oh, 62 00:04:14.840 --> 00:04:16.160 the arc of my career is going to be going 63 00:04:16.160 --> 00:04:19.959 into underground comics. Right about the time that that industry collapsed, 64 00:04:20.279 --> 00:04:23.800 you know, they closed down headshops, they all the distribution disappeared, 65 00:04:24.279 --> 00:04:27.240 and it just that that was not an option. But 66 00:04:27.360 --> 00:04:30.160 since we had done a fanzine, it wasn't a crazy 67 00:04:30.199 --> 00:04:33.079 idea like, well, we're doing these comics and it's very 68 00:04:33.079 --> 00:04:35.439 difficult to get published. That were you know, this is 69 00:04:35.480 --> 00:04:38.759 like nineteen seventy nine. There was one collapsing industry, but 70 00:04:38.800 --> 00:04:41.720 there was one starting to get its legs. I mean 71 00:04:41.759 --> 00:04:44.680 like Love and Rockets came in nineteen eighty one, and 72 00:04:45.160 --> 00:04:48.639 you know that was originally self published. That there was 73 00:04:49.120 --> 00:04:52.120 a percolation of like, well, you know, the river's got 74 00:04:52.120 --> 00:04:57.480 to flow somewhere and seth and I feeling very much 75 00:04:57.639 --> 00:05:00.639 like with Ronald Reagan on his way into office, that 76 00:05:00.759 --> 00:05:04.720 was like percolating that was right about to happen that 77 00:05:04.959 --> 00:05:08.879 you know, there was the hostage crisis in Iran. Ironically, 78 00:05:09.079 --> 00:05:15.040 here we are again, and they were talking about, you know, 79 00:05:15.120 --> 00:05:19.519 it was going to be bomb Iran, and there was 80 00:05:19.560 --> 00:05:24.120 a definite move with generally a feeling of the atomic 81 00:05:24.160 --> 00:05:26.399 bomb is going to be used, and with Reagan, you 82 00:05:26.439 --> 00:05:30.879 know this like very be minus actor potentially going to 83 00:05:30.920 --> 00:05:34.399 have his finger on the button. The title World War 84 00:05:34.439 --> 00:05:37.600 Three Illustrated seemed appropriate. So we did the first issue 85 00:05:37.600 --> 00:05:39.480 while we were in art school. In fact, we did 86 00:05:39.639 --> 00:05:42.920 a couple of the issues in art school. And it 87 00:05:42.959 --> 00:05:45.560 wasn't just publishing our own work. It was also there 88 00:05:45.600 --> 00:05:47.560 was all this work that people were doing in New York. 89 00:05:47.600 --> 00:05:49.480 I mean that was around the time Keith Haring was 90 00:05:49.519 --> 00:05:53.759 starting to draw on the subways, Bosquette was around. You know, 91 00:05:53.800 --> 00:05:56.120 this is the it was in New York. There was 92 00:05:56.160 --> 00:05:59.160 a lot of art on the streets that would maybe 93 00:05:59.279 --> 00:06:01.959 wash away with the first rain, and we wanted to 94 00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:05.160 capture that and say, especially with Reagan coming into office, 95 00:06:05.480 --> 00:06:07.920 to say like that there's a lot of people that 96 00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:11.480 don't agree with this direction and that we want to 97 00:06:11.480 --> 00:06:14.800 codify that history. And World War II was a place 98 00:06:14.839 --> 00:06:17.240 to do that. And when we did one issue, people 99 00:06:17.439 --> 00:06:19.879 started coming to us more. I mean we'd kind of 100 00:06:20.199 --> 00:06:22.879 gathered people for the first issue, but then people started 101 00:06:22.920 --> 00:06:25.839 to reach out to us, and one of the realizations 102 00:06:25.879 --> 00:06:29.920 we had was we're talking about these about the Cold 103 00:06:29.959 --> 00:06:31.920 War in Russia and the United States going to war 104 00:06:31.959 --> 00:06:33.480 and things, and these are things we read about in 105 00:06:33.480 --> 00:06:35.839 the newspaper, But we can talk about what's going on 106 00:06:35.839 --> 00:06:39.839 on East third Street in Manhattan, and it's going to 107 00:06:39.839 --> 00:06:41.920 be a reflection of what's going on in the world. 108 00:06:41.920 --> 00:06:44.439 And you know, our direct experience what was going on 109 00:06:44.560 --> 00:06:47.800 where there was there were a lot of abandoned buildings, 110 00:06:47.800 --> 00:06:51.000 but there was, you know, the rise of potential gentrification. 111 00:06:51.680 --> 00:06:55.519 Police were not busting drug dealers, you know, and so 112 00:06:55.759 --> 00:06:58.560 the situations would get worse so that they could come 113 00:06:58.560 --> 00:07:00.319 in and just get rid of a bunch of pease people. 114 00:07:00.879 --> 00:07:03.560 And it was a real vibrant time, and we had 115 00:07:03.560 --> 00:07:05.839 a lot of stories that we could tell that were 116 00:07:06.199 --> 00:07:07.360 our direct experience. 117 00:07:07.519 --> 00:07:11.079 Do you see parallels between when you started that magazine 118 00:07:11.120 --> 00:07:14.560 and now you mentioned the Iran situation and so forth. 119 00:07:14.639 --> 00:07:16.879 Is it kind of history repeating itself in some ways? 120 00:07:17.160 --> 00:07:19.399 Yeah? Well, it was just reading a quote that said, 121 00:07:21.079 --> 00:07:22.959 what we learned from history is that we don't learn 122 00:07:23.000 --> 00:07:28.399 from history. It's a real So many of the things 123 00:07:28.399 --> 00:07:31.519 that we talked about you could just reprint and say, yeah, yeah, 124 00:07:31.600 --> 00:07:34.800 that thing we were pointing at and saying, let's not 125 00:07:34.879 --> 00:07:38.600 do that. That was true with going into Afghanistan, going 126 00:07:38.680 --> 00:07:41.600 into Iraq. We were talking about all those things and 127 00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:44.800 waving our arms around about it. And you know, we're 128 00:07:44.839 --> 00:07:47.879 a small magazine. We didn't change the world that way, 129 00:07:47.920 --> 00:07:50.519 but that history does exist in the magazine. And by 130 00:07:50.560 --> 00:07:53.040 the way, Crazy, I'm working on a new issue right 131 00:07:53.040 --> 00:07:56.839 now as co editor. It's called Animal Rights. Planet Wrongs 132 00:07:56.920 --> 00:08:01.680 is the theme. So environmental issues and animal rights, which 133 00:08:01.920 --> 00:08:07.399 can join easily. And uh so we're into we're coming 134 00:08:07.480 --> 00:08:09.480 up on what I don't know, forty eight years of publishing. 135 00:08:09.920 --> 00:08:14.519 It's insane. Secret to our success. No one's never been paid, 136 00:08:14.639 --> 00:08:19.439 but Seth and I put into publish it and it's 137 00:08:19.439 --> 00:08:24.639 you know, it pays out in the positive possibilities of 138 00:08:25.439 --> 00:08:31.120 connecting people and uh you know, having a resource. One 139 00:08:31.160 --> 00:08:32.679 of the things that we get to do with the 140 00:08:32.720 --> 00:08:35.639 magazine is actually published people for the first time that 141 00:08:36.559 --> 00:08:39.799 you know, for an artist to be seen in print, 142 00:08:40.279 --> 00:08:43.679 it's one of the things that can make you continue 143 00:08:43.759 --> 00:08:47.279 or or stop. And that you know, it was you know, 144 00:08:47.320 --> 00:08:50.279 I was always very anxious, like I wanted to be 145 00:08:50.360 --> 00:08:53.879 in print. And it means a great deal, and that 146 00:08:54.000 --> 00:08:56.919 we've have such a long list of people that we 147 00:08:57.279 --> 00:08:59.879 who first started in the magazine at Eric Drucker, who's 148 00:09:00.399 --> 00:09:04.639 done a ton of New Yorker covers and many amazing 149 00:09:04.679 --> 00:09:10.200 graphic novels like you know, Flood, Blood Song and Naked 150 00:09:10.200 --> 00:09:13.200 Cities is a recent one. You know, that work was 151 00:09:13.360 --> 00:09:16.039 first appearing in World War Three. There was a book 152 00:09:16.039 --> 00:09:19.600 that Vertigo published called Seven Miles a Second by James 153 00:09:19.720 --> 00:09:22.840 Romberger and Marguerite Van Cook. It was the story of 154 00:09:24.480 --> 00:09:27.559 David Wanurovich. We published that first in World War Three. 155 00:09:27.600 --> 00:09:31.080 It became you know anyway, not I won't break my 156 00:09:31.159 --> 00:09:33.919 own patting ourselves on the back. It's it's you know, 157 00:09:33.919 --> 00:09:38.480 we've been a launch pad for World War three enjoining. 158 00:09:38.120 --> 00:09:41.679 The show, Click like and subscribe. You've been writing and 159 00:09:41.679 --> 00:09:45.559 illustrating Spy versus Spy for Mad magazine since nineteen ninety seven. 160 00:09:46.360 --> 00:09:48.799 What was it like taking over an iconic cartoon? 161 00:09:48.879 --> 00:09:51.039 Yeah, I mean I grew up on Mad, so I 162 00:09:51.120 --> 00:09:53.399 started looking at that when I was in a probly 163 00:09:53.360 --> 00:09:59.120 eight something nine, definitely intensely when I was in my teens, 164 00:10:00.159 --> 00:10:05.000 early early teens, and it taught me everything that I 165 00:10:05.080 --> 00:10:09.559 need to understand about the collision of humor and politics, 166 00:10:10.600 --> 00:10:14.960 and so it was hugely important to me, and Spy's 167 00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:18.679 Spy was probably the first thing I went to. Ironically, 168 00:10:19.159 --> 00:10:20.480 when they reached out to me and said, do you 169 00:10:20.480 --> 00:10:22.960 want to try out for Spy Versus Spy? I almost 170 00:10:23.000 --> 00:10:26.879 said no because I was I just finished doing a 171 00:10:26.919 --> 00:10:32.000 book for Vertigo called The System, which was a wordless story, 172 00:10:32.159 --> 00:10:34.279 all done in stencils and spray paint. It was a 173 00:10:34.320 --> 00:10:38.679 completely insane project, and I was really starting to feel like, Okay, 174 00:10:39.120 --> 00:10:41.240 now comics are about to you know, I'm about to 175 00:10:41.279 --> 00:10:43.840 get my footing with doing comics. And I should say, 176 00:10:44.320 --> 00:10:48.960 for the better part of the first decade, doing comics 177 00:10:49.039 --> 00:10:52.840 was almost a hobbyist thing. Like from seventy nine to 178 00:10:52.600 --> 00:10:56.200 two the nineties, if you were doing comics, you were 179 00:10:56.200 --> 00:10:58.159 just doing them because you were inclined to do them. 180 00:10:58.200 --> 00:11:01.960 There wasn't any money to speak of. There were almost 181 00:11:02.039 --> 00:11:06.080 no mainstream publishers, no book no libraries carried comics, and 182 00:11:06.240 --> 00:11:09.120 I took books to publishers and they just they looked 183 00:11:09.120 --> 00:11:11.639 at me like I was crazy. And that lasted into 184 00:11:11.639 --> 00:11:16.840 the nineties. In fact, that lasted until two thousand. There 185 00:11:16.919 --> 00:11:19.519 was the little Hits I had, like, like, I did 186 00:11:19.559 --> 00:11:24.799 a classics illustrated adaptation of the Jungle for First Comics 187 00:11:25.240 --> 00:11:29.120 right before they went bankrupt. And then then the system 188 00:11:29.240 --> 00:11:32.080 was for DC Vertigo, which is again ironic since it 189 00:11:32.120 --> 00:11:37.720 was Batman, you know, Superman and one of my books. 190 00:11:38.639 --> 00:11:41.360 So Mad asked me to try out for and they 191 00:11:41.360 --> 00:11:42.639 were like, well, pay you just you know, give it 192 00:11:42.639 --> 00:11:44.799 a try. And I'm like, all right, well, if I'm 193 00:11:44.799 --> 00:11:48.200 going to do this, I'm got I can't just mimic 194 00:11:48.759 --> 00:11:53.440 Antonio Broheus's style because then I'm just really like thrown 195 00:11:53.480 --> 00:11:56.159 in the towel on what I'm doing. And I just 196 00:11:56.440 --> 00:12:00.000 I was very deeply into cutting stencils out of pay 197 00:12:00.639 --> 00:12:04.120 and with toxic spray paint, spray painting, and so like 198 00:12:04.120 --> 00:12:06.279 all the entire the System was done that way. The 199 00:12:06.320 --> 00:12:08.279 Jungle was done that way. I did another book called 200 00:12:08.639 --> 00:12:11.320 Sticks and Stones, all done that way. And I was 201 00:12:11.399 --> 00:12:14.759 getting a ton of illustration work. I was surviving doing 202 00:12:14.799 --> 00:12:19.600 illustrations for mainstream magazines like Time and Newsweek, and a 203 00:12:19.639 --> 00:12:21.879 lot of work for the New York Times. That's what 204 00:12:21.919 --> 00:12:25.720 I was living on as an artist while doing comics 205 00:12:25.720 --> 00:12:29.679 on the side. And so I thought, well, if I'm 206 00:12:29.720 --> 00:12:31.679 going to do this. I'm going to do something that 207 00:12:31.759 --> 00:12:35.840 looks like me. So I presented a stencil spray paint 208 00:12:35.919 --> 00:12:39.279 version of Spy Verse Spy, and I just absolutely assumed 209 00:12:39.679 --> 00:12:41.799 the editors take one look at it and go, thank 210 00:12:41.799 --> 00:12:44.360 you very much, mister Cooper, and show me the door. 211 00:12:44.919 --> 00:12:49.039 And it turned out that my lack of got to 212 00:12:49.080 --> 00:12:52.440 get this job was exactly the way to go. And 213 00:12:52.559 --> 00:12:55.360 you know, it was just dumb luck, which I feel 214 00:12:55.360 --> 00:12:58.360 like I run on much of the time, and so 215 00:13:00.399 --> 00:13:02.320 it was just it was kind of a perfect fit. 216 00:13:02.360 --> 00:13:04.279 But I did think I'll do this for a year 217 00:13:04.360 --> 00:13:06.440 or two and then it'll wear out its welcome and 218 00:13:06.480 --> 00:13:11.240 I'll move along. And then, for whatever reason, at one point, 219 00:13:11.600 --> 00:13:13.320 you know, when I just was thinking like, well, I'm 220 00:13:13.360 --> 00:13:16.720 kind of running dry here, they went color and that 221 00:13:16.840 --> 00:13:23.120 outpened the door on rainbows and lots of blood and 222 00:13:23.120 --> 00:13:25.279 and then you know, just at different points, I mean, 223 00:13:25.320 --> 00:13:28.840 it's been a life raft in terms of I mean 224 00:13:29.399 --> 00:13:32.440 it introduces I say, it's the gateway drug to my 225 00:13:32.480 --> 00:13:35.120 other work. Like people who've never seen my work, and 226 00:13:35.679 --> 00:13:38.320 as far as they know I do Spyrus Spy, that's it. 227 00:13:38.840 --> 00:13:41.679 And when they're like, oh, you did something else, so 228 00:13:41.720 --> 00:13:45.240 it's a really great, you know, like bridge to what 229 00:13:45.360 --> 00:13:49.240 I want people to look at as well. And I 230 00:13:49.279 --> 00:13:51.360 have a blast doing it. And the weird thing is 231 00:13:51.679 --> 00:13:53.759 it started to fade away in about twenty twenty one, 232 00:13:54.559 --> 00:13:57.320 and then they asked me to do it and I'll 233 00:13:57.399 --> 00:14:01.000 Jaffy tribute piece, and there was the seventieth day anniversary 234 00:14:01.519 --> 00:14:05.440 and then they were like, hey, we're sort of bringing 235 00:14:05.440 --> 00:14:06.840 it back, would you like to do it? And that 236 00:14:06.960 --> 00:14:09.159 was maybe a year ago, and now I'm doing it. 237 00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:12.039 Did the cover of the last issue hand a strip 238 00:14:12.080 --> 00:14:14.799 and I'm doing one every issue now. So it's back 239 00:14:15.000 --> 00:14:19.360 full on, which is fantastic. And Mad's now every two 240 00:14:19.399 --> 00:14:23.559 months primarily by subscription. A lot of people think it's died. 241 00:14:23.799 --> 00:14:26.080 I've heard that from most people, like, oh man, I 242 00:14:26.159 --> 00:14:29.200 used to like this. It's like, well, you can continue. 243 00:14:29.399 --> 00:14:32.000 It's not just that you're drawing for Mad. You're doing 244 00:14:32.039 --> 00:14:36.039 probably the most iconic and popular part of Mad, Spy 245 00:14:36.159 --> 00:14:36.679 versus Spy. 246 00:14:36.960 --> 00:14:40.039 It's all very surreal in that way. It is so 247 00:14:40.159 --> 00:14:41.919 much in my DNA though. It's like when I sat 248 00:14:41.960 --> 00:14:44.120 down a lot, I was like, oh, yeah, I know 249 00:14:44.200 --> 00:14:47.440 this really well, and you know it's I mean, it's 250 00:14:47.480 --> 00:14:52.200 mostly it ceased being what its original tone was, cold war. 251 00:14:52.440 --> 00:14:56.200 It's now sort of lukewarm war. Although there's always ways 252 00:14:56.200 --> 00:14:59.559 to slip things in. I did something about during the 253 00:14:59.679 --> 00:15:02.279 elect I you know, had a little voting one and 254 00:15:02.559 --> 00:15:05.840 there's there's ways to you know, it's got that like 255 00:15:06.000 --> 00:15:09.000 mad in general, it has this subversive vibe. 256 00:15:09.279 --> 00:15:11.879 I first came across your environmental comics in the twenty 257 00:15:11.960 --> 00:15:15.519 nineteen anthology Slow Death Zero. What drew you to the 258 00:15:15.519 --> 00:15:18.039 climate crisis as an artistic subject? 259 00:15:18.360 --> 00:15:21.120 Well, I did a book for Fantagraphics in nineteen eighty 260 00:15:21.159 --> 00:15:23.320 eight called It's Only a Matter of Life and Death 261 00:15:23.679 --> 00:15:27.440 that was focused on environmental comics. So one of the 262 00:15:27.480 --> 00:15:32.080 things I discovered while working on World War three, I'm 263 00:15:32.879 --> 00:15:37.600 you know, my I'm developing political philosophy. It keeps on developing. 264 00:15:38.120 --> 00:15:41.960 Doors always open to new perspectives on and new approaches 265 00:15:42.000 --> 00:15:48.080 to trying to talk about what's going on. Sometimes I 266 00:15:48.120 --> 00:15:50.759 think the punch in the face works. I think there's 267 00:15:50.879 --> 00:15:55.000 artists like Sueco and Seth Ta Backman who do a 268 00:15:55.039 --> 00:15:59.159 great job of straight up like here you go, this 269 00:15:59.240 --> 00:16:01.960 is a this is it, and you know there's there's 270 00:16:02.000 --> 00:16:05.480 not a laugh to be found. And I've experimented with 271 00:16:05.519 --> 00:16:10.279 that and that approach and and subtler ways to do it, 272 00:16:10.320 --> 00:16:15.200 and humor is fitting pretty neatly in my my ongoing 273 00:16:15.320 --> 00:16:19.279 general tone. What I found was when talking about politics, 274 00:16:19.279 --> 00:16:22.360 it's really easy to feel over over your head, overwhelmed, 275 00:16:22.799 --> 00:16:26.799 like where how am I allowed to talk about politics 276 00:16:26.879 --> 00:16:32.279 in general? And I just found the environmental subject matter 277 00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:36.120 is a unifying force for everybody. You don't have to 278 00:16:36.159 --> 00:16:41.320 talk about you know, an individual figure, you know, political figure, 279 00:16:42.159 --> 00:16:47.919 it's it doesn't have you know, the focus is a collective, existent, 280 00:16:48.399 --> 00:16:52.720 existential threat, and that you can talk about that in 281 00:16:52.759 --> 00:16:55.480 a way that that I found there was you know, 282 00:16:56.080 --> 00:16:58.320 there's a million ways to talk about it, but that 283 00:16:58.480 --> 00:17:03.159 struck me as a thing that kind of of it's 284 00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:07.640 less specific than talking about Reagan or Trump or George 285 00:17:07.640 --> 00:17:13.559 Bush or Obama or whoever it, and it's more urgent 286 00:17:13.640 --> 00:17:15.720 than all of the things that any of them talk 287 00:17:15.759 --> 00:17:19.519 about or maybe do, and that it touches all of 288 00:17:19.559 --> 00:17:22.279 us at it in a constant way, and that I 289 00:17:22.279 --> 00:17:25.279 can talk about it in a very personal way and 290 00:17:25.359 --> 00:17:30.279 not be you know, talking beyond my degree. 291 00:17:30.559 --> 00:17:34.440 Whish we work here illustrates news stories about environmental destruction 292 00:17:34.640 --> 00:17:38.480 in humorous and horrifying ways. What inspired this collection? 293 00:17:39.119 --> 00:17:42.880 I somehow got the email of the art director at 294 00:17:43.000 --> 00:17:47.079 Charlie Hebdo. Actually I got through Art Spiegelman. They were 295 00:17:47.119 --> 00:17:50.720 doing an issue on censorship, and Art reached out to 296 00:17:50.759 --> 00:17:53.559 me as somebody who knew sort of more broadly about 297 00:17:53.559 --> 00:17:57.599 people in illustration in different areas than he knew, and 298 00:17:57.920 --> 00:18:03.160 that Charlie Habdo had reach out to him say we 299 00:18:03.200 --> 00:18:07.440 want to do an article about artists in America being censored. 300 00:18:07.880 --> 00:18:09.720 So I wrote a piece about an experience I had 301 00:18:09.720 --> 00:18:11.559 with The New York Times. He wrote something, you know, 302 00:18:11.599 --> 00:18:15.440 different details. So I have this art director's email, and 303 00:18:15.519 --> 00:18:21.039 I sent a strip, a wordless strip, and said, I 304 00:18:21.039 --> 00:18:25.519 don't know if you take unsolicited. You know I'm soliciting, 305 00:18:25.640 --> 00:18:28.160 but I'm just sending you this one. See if you're 306 00:18:28.200 --> 00:18:30.880 interested in running it. And he wrote back and said, 307 00:18:31.359 --> 00:18:33.680 would you be interested in doing this every week for 308 00:18:33.799 --> 00:18:39.559 our environmental column? And apparently they checked in with Art 309 00:18:39.680 --> 00:18:42.119 and said you think this guy could pull it off? 310 00:18:42.119 --> 00:18:45.799 And he said yes, thankfully, Thank you, Art. And that 311 00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:48.319 was five years ago, and I've done it every week 312 00:18:49.279 --> 00:18:52.440 since then. So I have a rather large mountain of 313 00:18:52.480 --> 00:18:55.880 these environmental comics, and being that I don't speak French, 314 00:18:55.920 --> 00:18:58.680 it was ideal that it was wordless. Also, it is 315 00:18:58.720 --> 00:19:01.200 connected to a strip started in the New York Times 316 00:19:01.200 --> 00:19:03.960 in nineteen ninety three called Eye of the Beholder, and 317 00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:07.200 I started the strip there and it ran first comic 318 00:19:07.240 --> 00:19:09.960 to run in New York Times. I ran in a 319 00:19:10.200 --> 00:19:13.319 New York section called the City Section for six months 320 00:19:13.400 --> 00:19:15.480 before they came. Went woke up and said why were 321 00:19:15.519 --> 00:19:20.160 we running comics? And I loved the idea of the strip, 322 00:19:20.240 --> 00:19:25.000 which was a multipanel wordless morphing story like what I 323 00:19:25.039 --> 00:19:29.119 did with wish we Weren't here. And so those are 324 00:19:29.160 --> 00:19:32.880 the days of alternative papers where every town had an 325 00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:35.279 alternative paper. You may remember, the good old days of 326 00:19:35.640 --> 00:19:40.319 wherever you were, there would be the local free Village 327 00:19:40.400 --> 00:19:44.279 Voice was one of those papers. We had New York Press, 328 00:19:44.599 --> 00:19:48.880 I mean we had two papers for free and every 329 00:19:48.960 --> 00:19:52.039 town had one there was, and I was doing tons 330 00:19:52.079 --> 00:19:55.640 of illustration work for those those newspapers, you know Dallas, 331 00:19:55.880 --> 00:19:59.559 there was one in Dallas, all over the country, and 332 00:19:59.599 --> 00:20:04.240 that's how a lot of the political cartoonists were living, 333 00:20:04.400 --> 00:20:07.039 you know, making their living. Tom Tomorrow was doing that. 334 00:20:08.319 --> 00:20:11.640 Rubin Bowling Tom and dance doing comm the Dancing bug 335 00:20:11.680 --> 00:20:14.240 a lot, you know, the City by dirf All those 336 00:20:14.240 --> 00:20:17.519 were running in alternative papers. Originally that would have been 337 00:20:18.559 --> 00:20:20.880 you know, kind of launching that in many ways was 338 00:20:20.880 --> 00:20:25.079 Matt Greening with Life and Hell and Linda Berry and 339 00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:27.759 there's you know, there was an outlet for that. So 340 00:20:27.920 --> 00:20:30.799 I pitched it around this strip I was doing for 341 00:20:30.839 --> 00:20:33.799 The New York Times to these alternative papers, and I 342 00:20:33.799 --> 00:20:36.920 got about five or six papers, and I did it 343 00:20:36.960 --> 00:20:40.920 for them weekly for a decade, and so I had 344 00:20:40.960 --> 00:20:44.359 accumulated quite a few of those. Another French paper asked 345 00:20:44.359 --> 00:20:47.880 me to do a strip Liberacion. I did this wordless 346 00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:50.400 comment for them. So I was really pretty versed in 347 00:20:50.400 --> 00:20:55.480 in doing this kind of type of strip, and it 348 00:20:55.640 --> 00:20:58.680 just it's a it's an absolutely perfect fit, uh. And 349 00:20:58.759 --> 00:21:03.160 I so it's an opportunity for me to look at 350 00:21:03.279 --> 00:21:05.920 the I mean, the negative is that I have to 351 00:21:05.920 --> 00:21:08.720 look at the headlines all the time. I key on 352 00:21:08.319 --> 00:21:13.559 my news feed on environmental subjects is enormous, and so 353 00:21:13.640 --> 00:21:19.039 I'm hideously conscious of how much how close we are 354 00:21:19.079 --> 00:21:21.240 to a tipping point, but that we keep on being 355 00:21:21.240 --> 00:21:27.079 there and and somehow still you know, have our coffee 356 00:21:27.119 --> 00:21:30.400 in the morning and get on the subway. But I 357 00:21:30.839 --> 00:21:34.880 find it very It's a great opportunity for me to 358 00:21:35.279 --> 00:21:38.720 talk about these subjects and express them in which we 359 00:21:38.720 --> 00:21:40.640 weren't here. And also in the strip I do for 360 00:21:40.759 --> 00:21:44.000 Charlie Hebdo, there's a little news headline. I grab a 361 00:21:44.039 --> 00:21:47.680 news headline from the Guardian, New York Times, Washington Post wherever, 362 00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:50.680 and it has a quick description so you know the 363 00:21:50.680 --> 00:21:55.519 context of the wordless four panel comic. And then I 364 00:21:55.599 --> 00:21:57.559 you know, constructed that in the book so that you 365 00:21:57.640 --> 00:22:00.000 can go to the websites and you know, you can 366 00:22:00.039 --> 00:22:03.039 look it up and go, oh okay, deeper dive. But 367 00:22:03.200 --> 00:22:07.440 my strip is an introduction to the subject. 368 00:22:07.759 --> 00:22:09.720 I guess as an artist it must be nice to 369 00:22:09.759 --> 00:22:12.079 have an endless supply of these stories, but as a 370 00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:14.599 human being it must be pretty depressing. 371 00:22:14.799 --> 00:22:16.960 Well, you know, everybody is always saying that about Trump 372 00:22:17.039 --> 00:22:18.559 is like, yeah, oh man, that must be great. As 373 00:22:18.599 --> 00:22:22.279 a political cartoonist. It's you know, it's material, but it's 374 00:22:22.279 --> 00:22:25.480 not the material I want. I'd be happy to, you know, 375 00:22:25.559 --> 00:22:29.160 draw trees and bunny rabbits if I could do that 376 00:22:29.319 --> 00:22:34.039 and not feel like I was missing critical urgent issues. 377 00:22:34.519 --> 00:22:38.759 You know, that's always that's an ongoing question. As an artist, 378 00:22:39.200 --> 00:22:43.440 I find myself perpetually looking into the abyss and saying, 379 00:22:43.480 --> 00:22:46.119 you know, like trying to figure out how much I 380 00:22:46.160 --> 00:22:49.160 should be doing looking at that and talking about it, 381 00:22:49.359 --> 00:22:52.960 and how much it's actually almost you know, for Trump, 382 00:22:53.559 --> 00:22:56.200 everything is thrown gasoline on a fire in a certain way. 383 00:22:56.680 --> 00:23:00.440 But then then there's the you have to talk about 384 00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:02.559 those things, so you know, you have to talk about 385 00:23:02.640 --> 00:23:07.720 McCarthy when there's McCarthyism, that these are it's important and 386 00:23:08.000 --> 00:23:10.319 and hopefully cast a light on it. 387 00:23:10.480 --> 00:23:14.079 You write that drawing existential threats and apocalyptic images to 388 00:23:14.200 --> 00:23:17.240 warn of impending dangers can feel like throwing a pebble 389 00:23:17.279 --> 00:23:20.160 in the ocean hoping to create a tsunami of change. 390 00:23:21.079 --> 00:23:23.079 Can your drawings have an impact well? 391 00:23:23.119 --> 00:23:26.799 As my friend Tom Tomorrow slash Dan Perkins said, well, 392 00:23:26.799 --> 00:23:29.880 it's more like, you know, a drip in a bucket, 393 00:23:29.920 --> 00:23:31.960 and you know you're filling up a bucket full of water, 394 00:23:32.039 --> 00:23:36.519 and Lord knows we need water to survive. So there's that, 395 00:23:36.920 --> 00:23:39.960 I think the connective tissue that happens when you do 396 00:23:40.039 --> 00:23:43.839 something like this that makes people feel like there's some 397 00:23:43.880 --> 00:23:48.960 solidarity that is you know in a march, the hilarious 398 00:23:49.119 --> 00:23:53.680 posters that you know that this is a glue that 399 00:23:53.720 --> 00:23:56.839 holds people together in a certain way. One of the 400 00:23:56.880 --> 00:23:58.839 things that you know, I've heard my whole life is 401 00:23:58.839 --> 00:24:01.319