WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.160 --> 00:00:08.919 Hello, everybody, Welcome to another exciting episode of JavaScript jabb Er. 2 00:00:08.960 --> 00:00:11.039 I am Steve Edwards, the host with the face for 3 00:00:11.240 --> 00:00:13.279 radio and the voice for being of mine. But I'm 4 00:00:13.320 --> 00:00:15.480 your host today, whether you like it or not. Anyway 5 00:00:16.519 --> 00:00:19.760 with me today, I have on our panel mister Dan Shapier. 6 00:00:19.800 --> 00:00:20.519 How you doing Dan? 7 00:00:21.760 --> 00:00:24.280 As well as can be expected given that I live 8 00:00:24.320 --> 00:00:24.960 in Tel Aviv. 9 00:00:25.679 --> 00:00:28.640 Yes, I would say it's rather explosive times, there isn't it. 10 00:00:29.199 --> 00:00:31.160 Yeah, you can tell Aviv if you want, if you 11 00:00:31.199 --> 00:00:32.159 want to joke about it. 12 00:00:32.159 --> 00:00:35.920 Yet is it so? Yeah? 13 00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:39.000 If you put in this way, there's greater than zero 14 00:00:39.039 --> 00:00:42.359 possibility that doing the recording today, I'll need to jump 15 00:00:42.399 --> 00:00:43.679 off and run to the bomb shelter. 16 00:00:43.960 --> 00:00:44.520 Bomb shelter. 17 00:00:44.719 --> 00:00:48.320 Yes, yes, if you've been watching the news, you should 18 00:00:48.320 --> 00:00:50.159 know what's going on in Tel Aviv. We'll leave it 19 00:00:50.200 --> 00:00:50.520 at that. 20 00:00:52.439 --> 00:00:53.000 With me. 21 00:00:53.359 --> 00:00:57.200 With us, we have our very special guests, mister Dmitri Metropolis. 22 00:00:57.200 --> 00:00:58.000 How are you doing, Dmitri? 23 00:00:58.560 --> 00:01:00.560 Great? Great, happy to be thank you. 24 00:01:00.880 --> 00:01:03.359 And yes, we were asking him ahead of time that 25 00:01:03.399 --> 00:01:06.000 as Metropolis has in the same city where Superman lives, 26 00:01:06.640 --> 00:01:08.280 so you know, it's a it's. 27 00:01:08.200 --> 00:01:11.000 An old Greek name, so it's probably in the old days, 28 00:01:11.079 --> 00:01:13.040 was pronounced a little different. You know. Ancient Greek was 29 00:01:13.040 --> 00:01:18.159 a tonal language actually, so it had pitches like Chinese. Yes, right, 30 00:01:18.280 --> 00:01:19.719 very different from how it sounds today. 31 00:01:20.400 --> 00:01:21.159 Yeah, that's true. 32 00:01:21.200 --> 00:01:23.439 I've spent some time in China, and I have friends 33 00:01:23.480 --> 00:01:26.359 that have lived there for a long time and speak 34 00:01:27.680 --> 00:01:32.280 China Chinese, and the tones make a huge difference in 35 00:01:32.439 --> 00:01:34.920 what you say. You can say one word with two 36 00:01:34.959 --> 00:01:36.760 different tones and they mean two different things. And if 37 00:01:36.799 --> 00:01:38.640 you get lazy, you can say something that you really 38 00:01:38.719 --> 00:01:39.439 didn't want to say. 39 00:01:40.959 --> 00:01:43.120 It literally means city, doesn't it. 40 00:01:44.480 --> 00:01:48.280 Yeah. And by the way, which city, people, I think? 41 00:01:48.359 --> 00:01:50.480 Oh, okay, And by the way, which city do you 42 00:01:50.519 --> 00:01:51.200 actually live in? 43 00:01:52.040 --> 00:01:54.239 I live in here in Michigan. I live like a 44 00:01:54.599 --> 00:01:59.280 bit north of Detroit, the Mitten State. Yeah. People make 45 00:01:59.280 --> 00:02:00.719 fun of us because you can, you know, you can 46 00:02:00.760 --> 00:02:03.200 say where you're from by holding up your hand, right. 47 00:02:03.640 --> 00:02:05.799 But you know, hey, whatever, are. 48 00:02:05.680 --> 00:02:08.080 You one of those up people? Are you down on the. 49 00:02:07.920 --> 00:02:12.439 No, I'm not there. They're called us. Yeah, I'm not aperuh, 50 00:02:12.680 --> 00:02:15.759 but uh, you know it's beautiful up there, so I 51 00:02:15.840 --> 00:02:16.560 won't hate on him. 52 00:02:17.159 --> 00:02:20.280 There's a I still have this really old humor song 53 00:02:20.319 --> 00:02:23.400 on my computer from a group called the Upers, and 54 00:02:23.400 --> 00:02:25.039 it's about the second week of deer Camp. 55 00:02:25.639 --> 00:02:29.159 Uh. They were like a little comedy group back in 56 00:02:29.199 --> 00:02:29.520 the day. 57 00:02:29.800 --> 00:02:30.520 Sounds about right. 58 00:02:30.639 --> 00:02:31.599 It's a very old song. 59 00:02:32.360 --> 00:02:34.439 It's a second week of deer Camp and all the 60 00:02:34.439 --> 00:02:40.840 guys are here anyway, So moving on to our topic, usure, Uh, 61 00:02:41.120 --> 00:02:42.560 we're going to talk about Dimitris. 62 00:02:42.680 --> 00:02:45.520 Oh, I would like to introduce the topic. If you 63 00:02:45.560 --> 00:02:49.360 don't know, I was first of all, I have to 64 00:02:49.400 --> 00:02:52.159 mention that it was when it just when it was announced. 65 00:02:52.199 --> 00:02:55.719 It was obviously my pick on the very next podcast 66 00:02:56.039 --> 00:02:59.159 and I and I basically called shot a shotgun on it, 67 00:02:59.319 --> 00:03:02.840 so with y else could pick it because for me, it's 68 00:03:02.840 --> 00:03:06.520 a totally insane, wacky and out of this world project. 69 00:03:08.000 --> 00:03:13.159 It's simultaneously amazing and I think also educational. The fact 70 00:03:13.199 --> 00:03:17.080 that it's that it was actually created and the amount 71 00:03:17.120 --> 00:03:19.719 of effort that you put into it, based on the 72 00:03:19.800 --> 00:03:22.520 video that being released about it is more or less insane, 73 00:03:22.599 --> 00:03:27.199 and we will obviously learn more about it. So without 74 00:03:27.199 --> 00:03:29.159 further ado, what did you do? 75 00:03:30.840 --> 00:03:33.280 I think I had a thought, and the thought never 76 00:03:33.800 --> 00:03:35.759 I could never let the thought go. I think that's 77 00:03:35.840 --> 00:03:37.759 ultimately the answer to the question of what I did, 78 00:03:37.840 --> 00:03:41.159 and the thought was, yeah, but there's no way you 79 00:03:41.159 --> 00:03:45.280 could run doom and typescripts type system. You know, that 80 00:03:45.439 --> 00:03:48.919 was the thought. I think that I have opinions that 81 00:03:48.960 --> 00:03:51.080 informed that thought, and one of the core ones is 82 00:03:51.639 --> 00:03:54.199 my feelings about what it means for a system to 83 00:03:54.240 --> 00:03:57.960 be turning complete. So a couple of years ago, someone 84 00:03:58.199 --> 00:04:00.599 posted an issue It's still the Open on the Typescript 85 00:04:00.680 --> 00:04:02.639 repo saying, hey, I was just playing around and I 86 00:04:02.680 --> 00:04:05.360 noticed I think the type system is turing complete. And 87 00:04:05.400 --> 00:04:06.639 it got a lot of press and it was very 88 00:04:06.719 --> 00:04:08.199 you know, we all had a laugh, you know, everybody 89 00:04:08.240 --> 00:04:11.400 typescript nerds had to laugh about it. But since that time, 90 00:04:11.520 --> 00:04:13.840 I think people would say, I'd hear here and there 91 00:04:13.840 --> 00:04:15.719 if someone say, oh, well, but if it's turning complete, 92 00:04:15.759 --> 00:04:18.360 then of course it could you know, X Y Z thing, 93 00:04:19.040 --> 00:04:21.639 and I just think that's baloney. I just it's totally 94 00:04:22.160 --> 00:04:25.079 I just fundamentally cannot get on board with that kind 95 00:04:25.079 --> 00:04:28.360 of thinking because Turing completeness, well we could. 96 00:04:29.680 --> 00:04:31.959 Incomplete, yeah, touring complete. 97 00:04:32.319 --> 00:04:36.839 So there's this guy, Alan Turing, and he made quite 98 00:04:36.839 --> 00:04:38.720 a lot of contributions to society, but one of them 99 00:04:38.800 --> 00:04:42.480 was he described a system that we now call a 100 00:04:42.519 --> 00:04:47.160 Turing machine. And Turing machines can be used to represent 101 00:04:47.319 --> 00:04:53.279 arbitrary calculations and you know, perform arbitrary CPU work, and 102 00:04:53.480 --> 00:04:57.040 Touring machines are extremely are well known for being extraordinarily simple. Actually, 103 00:04:57.079 --> 00:04:58.639 you can do it in binary. You can do it 104 00:04:58.639 --> 00:05:00.879 with like a ticker tape. You can think of this 105 00:05:00.920 --> 00:05:03.519 little bug kind of dancing through a ticker tape, you know, 106 00:05:03.560 --> 00:05:07.439 looking at the one zero or one bit in front 107 00:05:07.439 --> 00:05:09.040 of it and making a decision about where to go 108 00:05:09.079 --> 00:05:09.839 and what to do next. 109 00:05:10.120 --> 00:05:15.519 Basically, it's if I remember correctly, it's a theoretical machine. Yes, 110 00:05:15.720 --> 00:05:19.879 that is the simplest mechanism that can perform any computation. 111 00:05:20.519 --> 00:05:23.240 Right, So, if you can show that a system is 112 00:05:23.279 --> 00:05:28.360 Turing complete, there's a chain of mathematical proofs that demonstrate 113 00:05:28.439 --> 00:05:31.199 that you could build your way up to creating an 114 00:05:31.240 --> 00:05:37.199 extraordinarily complex system like any In fact, any computer could 115 00:05:37.199 --> 00:05:42.160 be built from the bones of a Turing complete machine theoretically, 116 00:05:43.959 --> 00:05:48.000 and the theoretically part is where I totally fall off 117 00:05:48.000 --> 00:05:52.040 from the bandwagon, because to me, it's not interesting. So 118 00:05:52.079 --> 00:05:54.839 if I told you, hey, you know, Dan, I have 119 00:05:54.879 --> 00:05:58.920 this machine in my basement and it can compute you know, 120 00:05:59.040 --> 00:06:02.000 one plus one, except that it will take one hundred 121 00:06:02.160 --> 00:06:06.800 million billion years and all the atoms in the observable universe. 122 00:06:07.040 --> 00:06:07.720 Isn't it cool? 123 00:06:09.319 --> 00:06:09.480 Now? 124 00:06:09.560 --> 00:06:11.279 Tell me Dan, how cool do you. 125 00:06:11.240 --> 00:06:13.759 Think that is? How? That's how, that's how we're supposed 126 00:06:13.759 --> 00:06:16.879 to prove string theory. I believe they need to build 127 00:06:19.399 --> 00:06:22.079 a Liege hedron collider the size of the universe or 128 00:06:22.079 --> 00:06:24.160 something along these lines in order to prove right. 129 00:06:24.759 --> 00:06:28.120 So like, I just don't find that super interesting. And 130 00:06:28.720 --> 00:06:31.199 so what happened was, you know, I have a YouTube 131 00:06:31.279 --> 00:06:34.360 channel that I participate in called Michigan Type Script and 132 00:06:34.680 --> 00:06:37.759 I help out with making videos there, and I got 133 00:06:37.800 --> 00:06:39.199 the thought one day, you know, would be a cool 134 00:06:39.240 --> 00:06:43.959 project is to show what the blocker is. Why, to 135 00:06:44.040 --> 00:06:46.199 demonstrate my the thing that I just laid out, which 136 00:06:46.240 --> 00:06:48.800 is that being turn complete is not enough. You need 137 00:06:48.879 --> 00:06:51.639 a lot more into in order to do anything of 138 00:06:51.680 --> 00:06:56.120 any like real significance. And I, you know, thought this 139 00:06:56.160 --> 00:06:58.319 would take one or two weeks maybe of like putting 140 00:06:58.399 --> 00:07:01.000 around with the type system. You know, I have to 141 00:07:01.040 --> 00:07:03.680 mention like I had done a video series on advanced 142 00:07:03.680 --> 00:07:06.360 typescript type stuff. So there's these things called the Type 143 00:07:06.399 --> 00:07:09.040 Challenges made by Anthony Fou really great stuff, but they're 144 00:07:09.439 --> 00:07:12.040 they're very hard, and like the last one is making 145 00:07:12.079 --> 00:07:15.879 a Jason parser purely in Typescript type system. So some 146 00:07:15.920 --> 00:07:20.040 people are not aware that you can do arbitrary kind 147 00:07:20.040 --> 00:07:23.560 of kind of computations. It's called type level programming these days, 148 00:07:24.040 --> 00:07:26.920 and there is a lot that you can accomplish with 149 00:07:27.079 --> 00:07:30.040 very small building blocks, almost like what a turning machine 150 00:07:30.079 --> 00:07:33.160 gives you. And so I just thought I would work 151 00:07:33.199 --> 00:07:34.399 on findings. 152 00:07:34.600 --> 00:07:38.240 Stop you for a second, please, I'm thinking that we 153 00:07:38.279 --> 00:07:43.600 are potentially losing some of our listeners and the distinction 154 00:07:43.800 --> 00:07:48.199 between running things in Typescript versus running things in the 155 00:07:48.279 --> 00:07:53.920 Typescript type system, because it seems like, essentially it seems 156 00:07:53.920 --> 00:07:57.800 like it should be the same thing, but it totally isn't. 157 00:07:58.399 --> 00:08:02.639 So maybe you can make this distinction clearer before we proceed. 158 00:08:02.959 --> 00:08:04.839 I love it, Thank you for stopping me. Yeah, it's 159 00:08:04.839 --> 00:08:10.079 a very important distinction. So Typescript's whole point is to 160 00:08:10.160 --> 00:08:13.199 add types to JavaScript. So JavaScript is an existing language, 161 00:08:13.199 --> 00:08:16.079 but it doesn't have a type system in the sense 162 00:08:16.079 --> 00:08:18.800 that you can't say here's a variable, and this variable 163 00:08:18.839 --> 00:08:21.240 is a number and it can only be a number, 164 00:08:21.319 --> 00:08:22.920 so if you try to assign a strength to it, 165 00:08:23.040 --> 00:08:26.040 we're going to have an error. That's something that typescript 166 00:08:26.040 --> 00:08:28.240 gives you, but JavaScript is lacking, and that's the whole 167 00:08:28.240 --> 00:08:31.160 point of typescript in the kind of the most essential sense. 168 00:08:33.320 --> 00:08:37.080 Over the years, as typescript has evolved, there are more 169 00:08:37.120 --> 00:08:39.840 and more things that typescript has enabled you to do 170 00:08:39.960 --> 00:08:43.919 with the type system. So originally it was very simple 171 00:08:44.000 --> 00:08:46.799 types like I just said, like number and string. But 172 00:08:46.879 --> 00:08:50.840 eventually they started being able to do things with what 173 00:08:50.879 --> 00:08:54.159 we call literal types. So what if instead of saying 174 00:08:54.200 --> 00:08:56.480 I have this variable and it's a number, you can 175 00:08:56.480 --> 00:08:59.200 only assign numbers to it. If I say I have 176 00:08:59.279 --> 00:09:03.080 this variable, you can only assign these specific numbers to it. 177 00:09:03.120 --> 00:09:05.480 You can only assign one, two, three, and four to 178 00:09:05.600 --> 00:09:08.320 this variable. And if you try to assign five, even 179 00:09:08.360 --> 00:09:09.960 though it's a number, we're going to give you a 180 00:09:09.960 --> 00:09:13.360 type error. So there are literal types, and you can 181 00:09:13.399 --> 00:09:16.159 do this with strings too, So you can say I 182 00:09:16.200 --> 00:09:19.080 have this variable. The only types that are allowed to 183 00:09:19.279 --> 00:09:22.879 assign to this variable are red, green, and blue. These 184 00:09:22.960 --> 00:09:24.720 you know R E D G R E E N 185 00:09:24.919 --> 00:09:28.320 D L U E those are the available string options 186 00:09:28.320 --> 00:09:32.840 that you can assign to this type. Well, there's another 187 00:09:32.879 --> 00:09:36.000 thing that they added that goes even further, which is. 188 00:09:35.919 --> 00:09:38.440 That and again I'll stop you for a second just 189 00:09:38.480 --> 00:09:43.360 to clarify why this might be useful, because and I 190 00:09:43.360 --> 00:09:46.960 think your example with colors is excellent because, for example, 191 00:09:47.000 --> 00:09:51.440 if I'm implementing a type or a variable that's supposed 192 00:09:51.440 --> 00:09:55.440 to have contained a color that, for example, use in CSS, 193 00:09:55.840 --> 00:09:59.159 and I don't want to allow any arbitrary string to 194 00:09:59.200 --> 00:10:03.120 be assigned to it. I want the static type checking 195 00:10:03.240 --> 00:10:07.360 to validate that at run time. Well, actually at build time, 196 00:10:07.399 --> 00:10:12.279 I'm validating that I can only assign but the specific 197 00:10:12.519 --> 00:10:15.000 string values to it, and if I try to assign 198 00:10:15.039 --> 00:10:19.440 a general string to it, I will get a development 199 00:10:19.480 --> 00:10:21.080 time or buil time type error. 200 00:10:21.879 --> 00:10:23.639 Exactly. Yeah, what if you put it you just have 201 00:10:23.679 --> 00:10:26.679 a typo. You know. Typescript is really amazing because it 202 00:10:26.720 --> 00:10:29.320 can keep these kinds of errors, this whole class of 203 00:10:29.399 --> 00:10:30.399 errors out of the program. 204 00:10:30.440 --> 00:10:33.159 I write red instead of bread or something along it. 205 00:10:33.159 --> 00:10:37.480 Right, exactly, yeah, perfect. So the second thing that they 206 00:10:37.519 --> 00:10:41.840 added is something called generics. Generics exists in lots of languages, 207 00:10:41.879 --> 00:10:46.240 but generics is a way to operate on types. So 208 00:10:46.440 --> 00:10:49.559 it's kind of like a function. You say, I'm gonna 209 00:10:49.639 --> 00:10:52.720 take as a parameter some other function, Like we were 210 00:10:52.720 --> 00:10:54.759 saying red, green, and blue. Okay, So I'm going to 211 00:10:54.799 --> 00:10:57.799 take some other type and you can add to it, 212 00:10:57.960 --> 00:11:00.000 or you can change it, or you can inspect it 213 00:10:59.879 --> 00:11:02.039 and see what it does and do something different. So 214 00:11:02.039 --> 00:11:03.639 you can say, oh, if it's red, I'm going to 215 00:11:03.720 --> 00:11:05.600 return the number one. If it's green, I'm going to 216 00:11:05.639 --> 00:11:07.440 return five, and if it's blue, I'm going to return 217 00:11:07.480 --> 00:11:10.120 one thousand. You can do stuff like that. 218 00:11:09.840 --> 00:11:13.360 Is it an oversimplification to say? It's almost like a class. 219 00:11:13.000 --> 00:11:16.720 Override and object oriented programming where you can take something 220 00:11:16.759 --> 00:11:17.480 and extend it. 221 00:11:17.960 --> 00:11:21.600 Yeah, but it's done it it's build time or dev 222 00:11:21.720 --> 00:11:27.000 time rather than at run time. You're specifying the type. 223 00:11:27.039 --> 00:11:30.159 The arguments to the type are themselves types. 224 00:11:32.440 --> 00:11:34.039 So it's kind of like a It's kind of like 225 00:11:34.080 --> 00:11:37.559 its own programming language tucked away inside of JavaScript. It's 226 00:11:37.600 --> 00:11:39.320 like you have JavaScript, and then you have this other 227 00:11:39.399 --> 00:11:42.200 language on top that allows you to kind of speak 228 00:11:42.200 --> 00:11:44.480 in these other terms, and it's often in reference to 229 00:11:44.480 --> 00:11:46.440 what the JavaScript is doing. I mean, that's the intention. 230 00:11:47.440 --> 00:11:50.159 I'd like you can have another example. I'd likely to 231 00:11:50.440 --> 00:11:53.919 try to give another example that might clarify why something 232 00:11:54.000 --> 00:12:00.720 like this might be useful. Let's say I'm implementing calculator, 233 00:12:00.919 --> 00:12:03.480 a hand calculator, and I want to do it in 234 00:12:03.840 --> 00:12:06.399 a type form, and I want to represent an expression. 235 00:12:07.080 --> 00:12:12.240 For example, I want to represent the addition operator. So 236 00:12:12.399 --> 00:12:16.279 the addition operator has something on the left, the addition operator, 237 00:12:16.320 --> 00:12:18.879 and then something on the right, and I can say 238 00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:23.519 that an expression is a generic type that has a 239 00:12:23.639 --> 00:12:27.200 number on the left and an expression on the right. 240 00:12:29.240 --> 00:12:33.759 So it's so it's am I am? I kind of 241 00:12:33.799 --> 00:12:35.279 getting the point across, Steve. 242 00:12:36.320 --> 00:12:36.960 Yeah, I think so. 243 00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:40.200 I mean, being the visual person that I am, probably 244 00:12:40.200 --> 00:12:41.759 be easier to see some code examples. 245 00:12:41.799 --> 00:12:43.000 But yeah, I think I give you. 246 00:12:43.399 --> 00:12:48.720 For you sure, Yeah, so you can you can provide 247 00:12:49.519 --> 00:12:52.759 you can create functions that are kind of within the 248 00:12:52.799 --> 00:12:57.039 type system only, and you can create types that you know, 249 00:12:57.159 --> 00:13:00.360 that are just artifacts of the type system that don't 250 00:13:00.360 --> 00:13:03.960 exist at run time. So JavaScript is really weird because 251 00:13:04.200 --> 00:13:06.440 you know, we kind of attached a type system to 252 00:13:06.480 --> 00:13:08.519 it later. I mean, this also kind of happened in Python, 253 00:13:08.559 --> 00:13:11.639 but it's a part of Python, whereas in JavaScript, you know, 254 00:13:11.799 --> 00:13:14.320 there is no part of JavaScript that includes a type system. 255 00:13:14.360 --> 00:13:17.919 It's collect purely typescript and the type Script team there's 256 00:13:17.919 --> 00:13:19.879 no spec for it either, right, it's just something that 257 00:13:19.919 --> 00:13:24.080 they kind of developed and designed and they have documentation, 258 00:13:24.279 --> 00:13:28.279 I guess. But the JavaScript language itself is standardized and 259 00:13:28.360 --> 00:13:33.440 has a specification that's completely abstracted from the engines themselves, 260 00:13:33.440 --> 00:13:36.360 like V eight that run the JavaScript code. 261 00:13:38.200 --> 00:13:39.840 That's that's the EKMAS. 262 00:13:40.279 --> 00:13:42.279 Yeah exactly, Yeah, EKMASCRIPT. 263 00:13:42.320 --> 00:13:45.039 That's an European Computer Manufacturers Association. Yeah. 264 00:13:45.320 --> 00:13:50.159 By the way, an anecdote, that's the origin of the acronym. 265 00:13:50.200 --> 00:13:53.159 But EKMA is no longer an acronym. They've turned it 266 00:13:53.200 --> 00:13:58.840 into the name. Oh really, yes, so it's literally trade. 267 00:13:59.080 --> 00:14:03.000 It's trademark as EKMA, the word EKMA. 268 00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:08.320 That's interesting. I had no idea. Well I'll put that 269 00:14:08.360 --> 00:14:12.960 in my bag of bar trip. Yeah. Yeah, useful knowledge exactly. 270 00:14:13.440 --> 00:14:14.879 It's cool to it's kind of fun to know this 271 00:14:14.960 --> 00:14:19.480 kind of stuff though. So what happens is similar to 272 00:14:19.519 --> 00:14:21.879 how we were talking about a turing machine. As you 273 00:14:22.720 --> 00:14:26.360 start to have bigger and bigger building blocks that you construct, 274 00:14:26.440 --> 00:14:30.279 you can start to do harder and harder things. And 275 00:14:31.080 --> 00:14:34.720 my thesis was on this project. You know that may 276 00:14:34.759 --> 00:14:38.159 be true, but there's going to come a point when 277 00:14:38.159 --> 00:14:40.720 you hit some kind of immovable object. There's going to 278 00:14:40.799 --> 00:14:45.960 be some unstoppable blocking point where you can't continue pushing 279 00:14:46.080 --> 00:14:49.000 because you hit some memory constraint, or you hit some 280 00:14:49.440 --> 00:14:53.120 CPU time constraint, or you hit some issue that is 281 00:14:53.159 --> 00:14:57.320 just not solvable with the tools that we have today. Like, 282 00:14:57.399 --> 00:14:59.440 maybe someday someone could do it, but I was sure 283 00:14:59.720 --> 00:15:01.799 that it would not. It would never be possible in 284 00:15:01.840 --> 00:15:04.679 today's Typescript to be able to do something like run 285 00:15:04.799 --> 00:15:06.720 doom and we can talk, we can get into like 286 00:15:06.759 --> 00:15:08.559 what does it even really mean to say that you 287 00:15:08.679 --> 00:15:11.399 ran doom? And I can explain that, But that was 288 00:15:11.440 --> 00:15:12.679 basically the idea of the project. 289 00:15:13.039 --> 00:15:16.559 But again moving slightly back to the type system itself 290 00:15:17.240 --> 00:15:20.519 in order to say that the type system might be 291 00:15:20.600 --> 00:15:23.399 touring complete. And by the way, typescript is not the 292 00:15:23.399 --> 00:15:27.240 only one. I encountered a similar situation with generics and 293 00:15:27.279 --> 00:15:28.679 C plus plus back in the day. 294 00:15:28.759 --> 00:15:30.600 Yeah, C plus pus templates are also. 295 00:15:30.720 --> 00:15:36.240 Yeah, exactly. So basically the fact, once you have generics 296 00:15:36.399 --> 00:15:44.080 and the generics are flexible enough, you become touring complete 297 00:15:44.120 --> 00:15:49.240 because you get effectively loops and conditionals, which is basically 298 00:15:49.279 --> 00:15:52.639 what you really need in order to kind of be 299 00:15:52.759 --> 00:15:53.600 touring complete. 300 00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:57.080 Interesting side note on that, I learned that actually the 301 00:15:57.120 --> 00:16:00.000 definition of a Turing machine does not include the ability 302 00:16:00.120 --> 00:16:04.919 to loop it. Uh, it's it's so like CE so 303 00:16:05.000 --> 00:16:07.759 c C has a formatting syntax, right, there's like the 304 00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:12.960 C print F formatting. Yeah, it's also considered Turing complete, 305 00:16:13.200 --> 00:16:15.879 but you need to invoke it over and over again 306 00:16:15.919 --> 00:16:17.720 in a loop outside so. 307 00:16:17.919 --> 00:16:20.840 You can write infinitely long programs. 308 00:16:21.240 --> 00:16:23.519 So it's not included in the which actually, to me 309 00:16:23.840 --> 00:16:26.360 really adds fuel to my fire because like, I really 310 00:16:26.399 --> 00:16:28.919 have the position and I still do after completing this project, 311 00:16:28.960 --> 00:16:33.159 that calling something Turing machete complete is not really that interesting. 312 00:16:33.200 --> 00:16:36.440 I don't find it that interesting. I think. Actually, I'll 313 00:16:36.440 --> 00:16:39.240 tell you a funny thing about Doom. Actually, independent of 314 00:16:39.240 --> 00:16:42.519 my project, I learned when I released this that the 315 00:16:42.600 --> 00:16:45.960 Doom game, not like the engine, but like inside the 316 00:16:46.000 --> 00:16:48.200 game with your character and the gun and like things 317 00:16:48.200 --> 00:16:49.759 that you can do in the game is known to 318 00:16:49.799 --> 00:16:54.399 be Turing complete. Because you know, I was I was 319 00:16:54.440 --> 00:16:56.960 listening to watching people argue about this in comments, and 320 00:16:57.120 --> 00:16:59.480 you know, one person was saying, well, actually the measure 321 00:16:59.600 --> 00:17:02.919 should be Doom complete. If the system can run Doom, 322 00:17:03.279 --> 00:17:06.039 then that's like the bar of what is mathematically interesting. 323 00:17:06.039 --> 00:17:08.200 And someone said, well, you could make a computer that 324 00:17:08.279 --> 00:17:10.640 only can run Doom and can't do anything else, and 325 00:17:10.640 --> 00:17:12.640 then like, that's not very interesting. You made an ask 326 00:17:12.759 --> 00:17:16.240 basically for just Doom. And then they came back the 327 00:17:16.359 --> 00:17:18.119 you know, the first person came back to say, oh, 328 00:17:18.119 --> 00:17:20.079 you must not be aware that the Doom game itself 329 00:17:20.160 --> 00:17:22.319 is turning complete, and so then you have the full 330 00:17:22.359 --> 00:17:25.079 circle completing the loop that actually and so this is 331 00:17:25.119 --> 00:17:27.880 my my champion thing I'd like to champion to the 332 00:17:27.920 --> 00:17:30.440 world is that actually, Doom complete is the more interesting 333 00:17:30.440 --> 00:17:31.319 mathematical proof. 334 00:17:32.039 --> 00:17:35.359 By the way, I'm reminded that somebody implemented the CPU 335 00:17:35.440 --> 00:17:36.880 inside my Minecraft. 336 00:17:37.559 --> 00:17:40.240 Yes, yeah, exactly. Yeah, so it's a similar sort of 337 00:17:40.319 --> 00:17:43.240 project to something like that. Yeah. 338 00:17:43.799 --> 00:17:47.960 So, going back to what we were saying in the 339 00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:52.519 context of the quote unquote Doom complete, the type system 340 00:17:52.599 --> 00:18:03.920 itself provides the building blocks for implementing additionals and loops, right, 341 00:18:04.279 --> 00:18:08.400 I mean, conditionals would basically be let's say a generic 342 00:18:08.519 --> 00:18:12.440 type that accepts two types and then in a condition 343 00:18:13.000 --> 00:18:17.799 and based on evaluates that condition at build time and 344 00:18:18.039 --> 00:18:21.119 basically would return either the first type or the second 345 00:18:21.160 --> 00:18:22.759 type based on the condition. 346 00:18:22.960 --> 00:18:28.279 Right exactly. Yeah, that's that's basically the kind of core 347 00:18:28.319 --> 00:18:31.480 building blocks that you have, you have and then from there. 348 00:18:31.720 --> 00:18:34.480 So what's funny is there's no loops in the type system, 349 00:18:34.839 --> 00:18:38.200 but there is recursion, so anytime you want to do 350 00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:40.640 right right, So but I'm saying there's no there's no 351 00:18:40.680 --> 00:18:43.480 construct like in JavaScript you can make you can make 352 00:18:43.480 --> 00:18:46.279 a wild loop, but there's no construct of anything like that. 353 00:18:46.319 --> 00:18:51.759 But you can achieve it by making by making conditionals 354 00:18:51.960 --> 00:18:55.000 that have recursion inside of them. They have to have 355 00:18:55.039 --> 00:18:57.039 conditionals because of course if you don't have a condition 356 00:18:57.079 --> 00:19:00.599 then it could loop forever. But anyway, this is the 357 00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:02.920 construct that you end up using. And so actually all 358 00:19:02.920 --> 00:19:05.519 of the machine state and all the looping and all 359 00:19:05.559 --> 00:19:09.359 that stuff happens with recursion purely. 360 00:19:10.200 --> 00:19:12.799 Well, you know, when I first saw it, I was 361 00:19:12.920 --> 00:19:17.480 I laughed because again I encountered similar not nothing to 362 00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:23.079 this extent, but similar, let's call it similar kind of 363 00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:31.519 projects in concept, not in scope, back in the temp 364 00:19:31.799 --> 00:19:36.039 C plus plus template days. And basically it's because if 365 00:19:36.039 --> 00:19:39.680 you think about it, type system with generics is effectively 366 00:19:39.720 --> 00:19:41.079 a flavor of lisp. 367 00:19:41.759 --> 00:19:44.240 Yeah, I tell people that that it's it's it's very 368 00:19:44.319 --> 00:19:47.279 much like a lispy sort of thing where you also 369 00:19:47.400 --> 00:19:50.759 don't have statements all you all you have is expressions. 370 00:19:51.240 --> 00:19:54.519 So you have a you have a sense in which 371 00:19:54.720 --> 00:19:58.119 you can create statements by having an expression that you 372 00:19:58.119 --> 00:20:00.400 know is returned from something else. And there are some 373 00:20:00.440 --> 00:20:02.160 workarounds that I came up with but didn't end up 374 00:20:02.200 --> 00:20:04.480 actually needing to use to kind of fake statements using 375 00:20:04.559 --> 00:20:07.920 generic parameters. But yeah, in the end, it's it's a 376 00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:10.960 very straightforward system. If you just think of it like lisp, 377 00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:13.640 it kind of maps to that fairly, fairly directly. 378 00:20:14.359 --> 00:20:19.039 So basically, when you write a program, let's put doom 379 00:20:19.039 --> 00:20:21.119 aside for a minute. Let's say I'm writing a much 380 00:20:21.519 --> 00:20:25.759 simpler quote unquote program in the typescript type system, right, 381 00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:32.839 I run the program by executing by executing TSC. 382 00:20:33.359 --> 00:20:36.160 Right, Yeah, so you run the type checker. So you know, 383 00:20:36.200 --> 00:20:37.759 the thing that we talked about in the beginning that 384 00:20:37.839 --> 00:20:41.880 keeps you from mistyping red or green or blue. That 385 00:20:42.079 --> 00:20:47.720 system is the thing that is actually running your you know, program, 386 00:20:48.039 --> 00:20:49.279 if you want to think of it that way, And 387 00:20:49.319 --> 00:20:51.559 the program is a type, so actually all of Doom 388 00:20:51.880 --> 00:20:54.359 had to be converted in a sense into a single 389 00:20:54.960 --> 00:20:57.279 individual typescript type. 390 00:20:58.039 --> 00:21:03.920 So that begs the question again before delving into Doom itself. Yep, 391 00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:07.039 how do you input or output anything? 392 00:21:08.559 --> 00:21:11.960 So ASKI, art is the way that you output? So 393 00:21:12.359 --> 00:21:14.880 you basically because I said that you have a you 394 00:21:14.920 --> 00:21:18.160 know you have strings, I found a way to display 395 00:21:18.440 --> 00:21:21.480 a kind of two dimensional string, so you have new 396 00:21:21.519 --> 00:21:25.759 lines and it's actually new lines are collapsed by the editor. 397 00:21:25.799 --> 00:21:28.240 But essentially what happens is there's a type and you 398 00:21:28.240 --> 00:21:31.160 hover your mouse over it, and what appears in the 399 00:21:31.160 --> 00:21:33.960 hover that's supposed to be the you know, the place 400 00:21:34.000 --> 00:21:35.440 where it is, the place where it tells you what 401 00:21:35.480 --> 00:21:37.480