Speaker 1: You're listening to the Mind over Murder podcast.
Speaker 2: My name is Bill Thomas. I'm a writer, consulting, producer,
and now podcaster. I am now trying to use my
experience as the brother of a murder victim to help
other victims of violent crime. I'm working on a book
on the unsolved Colonial Parkway murders and I'm the co
administrator of the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook group together with
Kristin Dilly.
Speaker 3: My name is Kristin Dilly.
Speaker 4: I'm a writer, a researcher, a teacher, and a victim's advocate,
as well as the social media manager and co administrator
for the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook page with my partner
in crime.
Speaker 3: Bill Thomas. Welcome to Mind of a Murder. I'm Kristin
Dilly and I'm Bill Thomas. Here we are again, ready
for another scintillating, fun filled hour of podcasting.
Speaker 2: Fun filled if you say so, and I have no
doubt on the scintillating part.
Speaker 3: How's everything going today, there, mister Thomas. Everything fine in
the frigid y of Connecticut.
Speaker 2: It's good. I'm just preparing for more snow. I can't
believe it. We need to leave this winter behind.
Speaker 3: It's been pretty crazy winter.
Speaker 2: I can't get back to Virginia if it doesn't stop
snowing in Connecticut.
Speaker 3: That is true, and we want you to come back
to Virginia quite badly. Well, yeah, we definitely have people
who want you to come here for live events and
various other things. So yeah, the snow needs to melt.
You need to come back down here, and we're gonna
have some great stuff if we can ever manage to
get the two of us in the same location again.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, How can we plot and plan if I can't
get rid of this two feet of snow in my
yard exactly?
Speaker 3: That's crazy. That's crazy.
Speaker 2: It is.
Speaker 3: When we were searching for interesting topics to cover for
this week's episode, I was luckily able to come across
a breaking story that broke yesterday actually, and this is
something that I think everyone with a teenager should be
aware of, and definitely everyone in the teaching profession should
be aware of as well. And so this breaking story
happened yesterday. This is March the fourth when we're recording this.
This story happened on March the third, and it is
regarding Colin Gray, the father of a Georgia school shooter
who was found guilty in connection with the school shooting
that his son is accused of. And I was very
interested in this, largely because the son has not yet
gone to trial, but the father has been put on
trial and rather quickly, and a verdict was reached rather
quickly as well. So we're going to get into the
particulars of this case. We're going to use as our
base today an amalgamation of stories from NBC and CNN.
So the reporting here comes from David K Lee, Dan Gallo,
and Aaron Gilchrist of NBC Crime in Corps and from
CNN Crime and Justice reporters Eric Levinson and Maxine Tamsit Bill,
do you remember this particular shooting that is the basis
for this story or has all of the shootings in
recent memory?
Speaker 2: Have they all just clouded together? It sad to say,
I feel like these school shootings have begun to blend together.
I'm not sure I remember this one. As we go
through the details, some of it may jump out at me.
But there have been so many school shootings, and then
plus we throw in churches and synagogues and mosques and
shopping centers and on the level of extreme violence here
in the United States just seems completely off the charts.
To be honest, I'm not sure this one stuck out
for me. I read the facts, some of it started
to come back, but there's been so many of these,
and this is completely unacceptable to me that there are
so many school shootings and shootings of all types mass shootings.
You read articles and they'll say even say, oh, this
doesn't qualify as a mass shooting because not enough people
were killed. I just end up shaking my head. But
this one, I don't think this stuck in my head.
Speaker 3: And it feels awful to say that, but yeah, this
is definitely one of those ones. I think it happened
in the middle of a series of three or four
of them that were particularly They had happened pretty quickly,
all in a cluster, and because there was so much
else going on in the world, it didn't hit the
kind of headlines that a new Town or a Stoneman,
Douglas or a Columbine would have reached. So it did
take me a little bit to place this particular shooting.
And I'm still not one hundred percent sure that I've
got clear in my head where I was when it happened.
I knew I was teaching at my current school when
this happened, but for the life of me, I cannot
even place what school here this was.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very sad. It was right back to school time,
September fourth, twenty twenty four. But I'm not sure it
really stuck with me either, and that makes me sad
it does.
Speaker 3: Well, let's go ahead and dig into this. This is
This is about Colin Gray, a Georgia father who was
found guilty in connection with school shooting. In a case
testing the limits of who is responsible for a mass shooting.
A Georgia jury took the rare action on Tuesday, March third,
twenty twenty six of holding a father criminally responsible for
actions blamed on his son, who is alleged to have
gunned down two schoolmates and two teachers while he was
armed with an AR fifteen style rifle kept in their home.
Here we go again with the AR fifteens.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the most popular style of assault type rifle sold
in the country. Absolutely insane. I will state here that
I don't have a problem with people owning guns, but
nobody needs an AR fifteen. I'm sorry, it's not a
hunting rifle. It's not really a target rifle. I've shot
rifles like that and handguns as well. An AR fifteen
is a military style weapon and does not to be
does not need to be in a private home. I'm
not here to debate gun control, but I find this
tragedy so striking and so similar to so many others.
As we were talking about at the top. I don't
even think I can separate them all now, there's just
so many of them.
Speaker 3: The charges all come from the September fourth, twenty twenty
four shooting at Appalachi High School in winder Georgia, which
killed four and injured nine. The forced lane and the
shooting were students Mason Shermerhorn fourteen, Christian Angelo fourteen, teachers
Richard Aspinwall thirty nine, and Christina Eremi fifty three. Colt Gray,
fourteen at the time, is accused of using the firearm
his father should have secured to carry out the slaughter,
about forty five miles northeast of downtown Atlanta. I think
should have secured as the operative word.
Speaker 2: Here, and very striking that they found the father guilty here,
criminally responsible as the technical term, and the son hasn't
actually been brought to trial. Yet.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm interested in the whys and the wherefores of that.
Let's keep going here. Now, this is the part that
I really do have a problem with. Prosecutors accused Gray
of buying his son in aar Our fifteen style rifle
as a Christmas present and allowing him access to that
weapon and ammunition despite warnings that his son was a
danger to others. The indictment alleged his actions constituted criminal
negligence by consciously disregarding a substantial and unjustifiable risk. All right,
first of all, why do you need to get your
kid in AR fifteen for Christmas present? I'm sorry, I
don't understand it.
Speaker 2: Nope, don't nope, I know neither. And this kid had
clearly already been marked, if you will, as a a
danger to others. I don't know what this father is
thinking and how he thinks this is a good idea.
It's not a good idea to give a fourteen year
old and air fifteen to start with, and let alone
a kid who's had problems. And there's so many examples
of this. The New Town should is another example of
a situation where you had a troubled teenager whose mother
decided it was a good idea to allow him access
to high powered rifles, and he ended up killing her
and dozens of students in Newtown, Connecticut, about an hour
south of where I live. And you just think to yourself,
what are you thinking.
Speaker 3: Now? I don't want people getting the wrong idea here, Okay,
like you, I'm not here to debate gun control. I
will say that I come from a family of gun owners.
My dad owns guns. My dad hunts with guns, so
does my stepfather, So did my grandparents. Like we come
from a family that is the pursuit of animals in
the outdoors. That was a thing that they did. I've
never liked it, so that's why I don't do it.
But it brings my dad and my stepdad great joy,
and that is perfectly fine. My dad bought my brother
a bb gun for Christmas one year, but when he
did stupid stuff with it. I will not say what,
because even though my brother doesn't listen to his podcast,
I know I have friends of my brothers who do.
Said it will not be implicating my brother in anything.
But when Adam did not use it responsibly, my dad
took it away, And it certainly would never have occurred
to my dad to buy my brother or me or
any member of our family an AR fifteen rifle bbgun. Sure,
maybe a handgun if anybody had shown interest in it,
but an AR fifteen rifle. Nope, my dad doesn't even
own those. It just it feels like that is crossing
a line, yeah, into flat out stupidity. This kid had problems,
as the article we'll get into. I have no idea
what in the world the father is thinking that this
is a good idea. It's just like the Newtown example
I brought up, and there are dozens more, some of
which are referenced in this article. I'm just flabbergasted at
the level of stupidity that someone is going to give
their fourteen year old kid an AR fifteen. He has
some reasons for it that we're going to get into,
but I'm still not entirely clear. I can I don't
think I can get behind those reasons.
Speaker 2: But can you hear me rolling my eyes? Can you
hear me rolling my eyes? But please continue.
Speaker 3: That man and his son are both responsible for the
immense suffering that occurred on September fourth. Prosecutor Patricia Brooks
set in closing arguments, the blood is on their hands.
Colin Gray's defense, though, argued he did not know about
his son's violent plans and had taken steps to get
him help for his mental health troubles. Colin Gray, testifying
on his own behalf, recounted incidents of his son's feeling
bullied at school and occasionally showing signs of rage. Still,
he told jurors he never considered his son to be
a violent threat. I never thought that he would even
have a thought process of bringing a gun to the
school or doing any kind of harm to anybody else
on anybody at school, the older Gray told jurors, I
will say too again. As a teacher, I get both
a parent side and a student side. Here. I know
that when I get a kid at school, I'm seeing
a side of the kid they probably don't show at home.
There is a side of the kid at home that
they'd all show at school. When there are parents who
tell me they didn't know that their kid was acting
up at school, or still in the blank about what
else was going on at school, I do believe them
a lot of the time, because honestly, I don't know
what they do at home unless they tell me. I
can understand why their parent and I might not know
what they're doing at school. I still don't think that
is a good reason to not look further into your
children's habits and friends and various other things. But I
can definitely get why there would be some parents out
there that are a little shell shocked when they find
out the life that their kids have at school is
very different from the life their kids have at home.
So I do you feel bad for this parent only
in that he very clearly did not know what was
going on with his kid and he needed to be
better informed.
Speaker 2: Agreed. But for example, in his testimony, mister Gray said
that he recounted incidents of his son's feeling bullied at school, Yeah,
and showing signs of rage. How does kid being bullied
at school signs of rage an automatic or semi automatic weapon.
How does that make for a healthy combination? It just no,
it doesn't, It doesn't. I'm going to admit that when
I was in junior high school, Remember my dad was
in the Navy. We moved around all the time, and
junior high school is often a very tough time for
a lot of young people, and it was for me too,
But we moved to Deptford, New Jersey, outside Philadelphia. But
it's the suburbs now. Back then it was pretty spread
out and rural but starting to grow up with lots
of new housing developments. And most of the kids at
Deptford Township Junior Senior High School, which I attended, most
of those kids were local kids. And we moved there
from Hawaii, and that made us exotic and unusual and
unlike almost every kid in that school who had been
together in school from kindergarten, we were outsiders. We were new. Yeah,
And seventh grade for me personally, was awful. I'd always
done well in school and always got along really well
with the other kids, and I ended up in this place, Deptford,
where I was made to feel very unwelcome. My older brother, Richard,
who was in high school at the time, ran into
similar things. As a matter of fact, they even called
Richard Hawaii because when he was asked where he was from,
he told them we had been living in Hawaii in
Pearl Harbor for two years previously, and that was very
unusual and even exotic for them, So they ended up
nicknaming Richard Hawaii. But there were a couple of kids
that were exceptionally mean and chose me because I was
different and these kids were horrible. I'll be frank. I
have had fantasies about going back to that little town Deptford,
New Jersey and tracking these two guys down and shooting
them to death. It's crossed my mind more than once
over the years. So dark impulses exist everywhere. But I
remember thinking, if I ever found out that I was
going to die, that I had a limited amount of
time left on this planet, I would track down those
two people, both of whom I could name but I won't,
and track them down, wait for them to open the
front door of their shitty little suburban house and blow
the two of them away. These sorts of dark thoughts
occur to lots of people. Now, is it a good
idea I didn't do that? Yep. Is it a good
idea that I didn't have access to a gun or
didn't find out I had a terminal illness? Probably also good.
But my point is that bullied individuals will often have
fantasies about acting out and attacking people from their school
that they associated with those bullying incidents. Now, I never
did anything about it. But at the same time, giving
your troubled teenager access to a high powered military style
weapon is a recipe for disaster, as we've seen here
in Georgia.
Speaker 3: I'm aghast. Wow. Don't get me wrong. Middle school was
no picnic for me either. I distinctly remember getting jumped
at least twice, which you would not think is something
would happen in little, tiny Williamsburg, Virginia. I did. I
got jumped by a couple of girls. I was miserable
most times, most days, and that continued all the way
up through high school. I don't recall ever having fantasies
of hurting somebody, definitely not carrying it to the extent
that I would do something horrible. But I also lived
in a point well before like Columbine was my senior
year of high school. It was unsinkable for a school shooting,
Like we didn't have a term for school shooting. It
was unreal. I never thought that I would get to
a point where we would see school shootings happen as
often as.
Speaker 2: They do, oh every single year, every single month. And
this is people, We've got to listen here. This only
happens in the United States. This doesn't happen anywhere else.
I'm not saying there's never been mass shooting in other
parts of the world, but they are so rare. And
here we are living in a country where there are
literally more guns than people. The access to guns and
the lack of appropriate mental health care is a recipe
for disaster. You're listening to Mind over Murder. We'll be
right back after this war from our sponsors. We're back
here at mindover Murder.
Speaker 3: This is interesting. I want to continue getting into this.
The trial was part of a broader push to hold
more people accountable for a school shooting, including the shooter's
parents and responding law enforcement officers. This case bore close
similarities to the trials of James and Jennifer Crumley, whose
then fifteen year old son killed four students in twenty
twenty one at his high school in Oxford, Michigan. They
were each convicted of manslaughter and sentenced to ten to
fifteen years in prison. And I do recall that, and
I remember thinking that was the right call to make,
like it was a good precedent to set.
Speaker 2: I do remember the Crumbley case as well, and I
did remember that they went after mister and missus Clumbley.
It's a very similar situation with the fifth, fifteen year
old son shooting for students. I think that parents have
to take some responsibility for this. If they're going to
present teenagers with access to high powered weapons, they're going
to have to be responsible for those high powered weapons
and terrible things that happened as a result of candying
these off to teenagers who are not equipped to be
handling firearms of this type. We're not talking about taking
your kid to scout camp like we used to do
and shooting paper targets with a target rifle, which I
have done many years ago. This is a completely separate thing.
And again with the crumblies in Michigan, you think to yourself,
what are you thinking.
Speaker 3: The State of Georgia presented its case over about two weeks,
including emotional testimony from students and teachers who survive the shooting,
police interviews with Colin Gray, photos showing unsecured firearms and
AMMO and a bedroom closet, and testimony from the teen's mother, grandmother,
and sister about cult spiraling mental health. Shown pictures of
cult's bedroom, which included pictures of school shooter Nicholas Cruz
on the wall. Cruz killed fourteen students and three staff
members at Marjorie Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida,
on February fourteenth, twenty eighteen.
Speaker 2: Wow, there's a lot here spiraling mental health. His mother, grandmother,
and sister all knew about this, and the father had
to know about it too. Photos showing unsecured firearms and
AMMO in a bedroom closet, not in a gun safe
or other appropriate place where guns and AMMO are supposed
to be stored and locked up. That's completely lacking here.
Oh and by the way, as I should have pointed out,
why is this kid's name colt as in cult revolver?
Are we taking our gun culture a little too seriously here?
Speaker 3: I don't know. Marcy Gray, the defendant's estranged way CRUs
struggled with drug and alcol addiction, testified their son was
friddled with anxiety, easily agitated, and had panic attacks. She
said it was very obvious he needed professional help, but
her husband just didn't want to deal with it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's going to deal with it by giving his
son an AR fifteen. There's a responsible dad.
Speaker 3: Notably, the jury saw body camera footage from May twenty first,
twenty twenty three, when deputies with the Jackson County Sheriff's
Office visited Colt and Colin Gray's home after receiving an
FBI tip about an online threat to shoot up a school.
Colt denied posting the threat, and law enforcement was ultimately
not able to substantiate the tip. Colin Gray bought his
son the AR fifteen style rifle later that year.
Speaker 2: Excuse me while I fall out of my chair. After
law enforcement comes to your home to discuss an online
threat to shoot up a school. After that, you decide
the smart thing to do is to give young cult
his own AR fifteen. I know.
Speaker 3: The defense called just one witness, Colin Gray himself. He
testified he bought his son the firearm and ammunition in
an attempt to get him interested in the outdoors and
for father's son bonding. He also said he had scheduled
counseling at school for Coult's mental health issues and did
not ever perceive his son as a threat.
Speaker 2: However, Dad doesn't seem to get it but yet. In testimony, grandmother, mother,
and sister all mention Colt's spiraling mental health, but dear
old dad doesn't perceive the son as a threat.
Speaker 3: He's a good kid, the father said, through tears. He
wasn't perfect, nor was I, but to do something that heinous,
I don't know that anybody can see that kind of evil.
The cult I knew the relationship I had, there was
this whole other side of cult I didn't know existed.
And again this is the part where like as a teacher,
I do you feel bad for parents? Because every once
in a while I will get a parent who calls
me when their kid is acting up, and they'll say,
I don't know what to do with them, sir or ma'am,
I don't know what to do with your kid either,
because I don't have a child of my own for
this very reason, never mind that I work with them
twenty four to seven. I don't want children of my own.
I don't mind working with them. But I hear parents
every day who say I don't know what to do
with my kid. I don't understand my kid. I don't
get them. I can get that. So I feeled that
for him, and I guess I could even believe that
he couldn't see that other side of his kid, because,
like I said school kid and home kid often, very
very often do not necessarily meet in the middle. But boy,
I just I do find it a little hard to
believe that he didn't know that something was going wrong.
Speaker 2: It gets worse yet, in.
Speaker 3: A tense cross examination, he acknowledged multiple firearms were stored
in a closet, unsecured and unlocked, and he said cold
sometimes kept the AR fifteen style rifle in his bedroom.
He struggled to explain Colt's lack of school attendance throughout
his entire eighth grade school year, per school records, and
he admitted he was aware that his son had been
physically violent, had a photo of a school shooter posted
on his bedroom wall, and had texted a few weeks
before the attack. Whenever something happens, just know the blood
is on your hands.
Speaker 2: There are red flags all over the place here. Yeah,
the lack of proper gun storage so that guns can
be kept out of the hands of impressionable young people.
The fact that Colt is allowed to keep the AR
fifteen rifle in his bedroom, the lack of school attendant.
So this kid's a truant, he's clearly troubled. Then we
add more detailing here we go. The sun has been
physically violent and had a picture of Nicholas Cruz, one
of the Stoneman Douglas school shooters, on his bedroom wall.
He's sending you powerful signals that he's deeply troubled. It's
one thing to have a picture of your favorite band
or sports star or whatever on your bedroom wall. What
a kid is saying when they put something like that
up is I admire this person, or I find this
person interesting, or I want to be like them. And
so it doesn't matter whether they've got a picture of
Albert Einstein or their favorite rock and roll band up
on the wall. They're saying, this is someone something I admire.
So if you've got a picture of your favorite sports star,
I get it. Those are positive role models. To have
a picture of a school shooter, Are you serious?
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's so upsetting.
Speaker 2: No one is paying attention here.
Speaker 3: Finally, the jury watched heroin surveillance footage showing Colt Gray's
movements the morning of the school shooting on September fourth,
twenty twenty four. School officials and resource officers had gone
to intercept Colt Gray after he made several concerning comments
that morning, but in a stranger than fiction mix up.
They confused him with another student named Colton with a K. Gray. Boy.
You how unlucky is that?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: How unlucky is that?
Speaker 2: That is awful, no question.
Speaker 3: Colt Gray then armed himself with the rifle, which he
had brought to school hidden in his backpack, fired indiscriminately
into a math class and shot several people in the hallway.
Teachers Richard Aspinwall and Christina Arima and students Mason Shermerhorn
and Christian Aguila were killed.
Speaker 2: And this sounds completely random too. He's not even targeting now,
particularly on the student side. He just seems to be
killing it random. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Colt Gray has admitted to the shooting. According to authorities.
Now sixteen, he's pleaded not guilt. Took fifty five felony counts,
including four counts of malice murder. A trial date has
not been set. And I'm really curious about why that
might be. Why did his dad get to trial before
he did?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's interesting. I'm not sure why that is fifty
five felony counts. I'm wondering if there were fifty five
shots fired.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm wondering.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know there were a number of other students
that were injured but not killed. The fifty five number
created a question mark in my head.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Same. The panel in Barra County deliberated for less
than two hours on Tuesday, March third, before convicting Colin
Gray fifty five of all twenty seven charges, two counts
of second degree murder, two counts of involuntary manslaughter, eighteen
counts of cruelty to children, and five counts of reckless conduct.
He faces ten to thirty years in prison on each
murder charge, so that's two and one to ten years
on each manslaughter charge. Two of those at the defense table,
Colin Gray did not visibly react to the verdict. After
the jury was pulled to confirm all the guilty verdicts,
Gray wearing a blue sport coat in khaki pants, was
handcuffed and taken away by court security. Superior Court Judge
Nicholas prim didn't immediately sededate for sentencing, saying there are
a lot of people that need to be notified and
have a right to appear. I assume that means victim's
impact statements.
Speaker 2: I would think so. Yes.
Speaker 3: Gray faces up to two hundred and forty three years
behind Bars. Speaking after the verdict, Barrow County District Attorney
Brad Smith noted the Krumly cases set a precedent and
said he hoped this verdict moves the needle a little further,
and he pushed back on concerns that Colin Gray was
being punished for his child's actions. This was a trial
about this defendant's actions, his choices, and his responsibility.
Speaker 2: Smith said, I hope this can be taken as a
warning sign for parents across the country about how it's
the height of irresponsibility to be giving your teenagers unlimited
access to high powered weapons. If this kid hadn't had
access to an AR fifteen, I don't think anywhere near
the same number of students would have been killed and injured,
not to mention the two teachers. We have got to
do better than this. This is a classic example. This
kid needed mental health assistance and he did not need
access to a high powered weapon like this. This is
a tragedy all the way around. But I don't think
the father escapes his parental responsibilities just because he was like,
I had no idea cold could be this violent. I'm sorry.
Warning signs are all over the place, and here we
go again with the women seem to get it and
the men don't seem to get it.
Speaker 3: I was gonna say that, but that I didn't want
to offend you. It really does seem that way, and
of course that's not true in every instance. It's not.
Speaker 2: It's just not.
Speaker 3: It is so upsetting for me, as someone who regularly
works in the public school system, to hear day in
and day out about school shootings and the links that
parents should be going but yet are not going to
protect their kids, even for basic things such as don't
buy your kids military style rifles for presents, don't leave
them unsecured and unavailable and available to them, and for
heaven's sake, spend a little bit more time trying to
figure out what is going on in your kid's head.
It's hard because these kids are difficult. I have a
hard time reaching my kids. Every single day that I
go into the classroom and I can't reach them all.
Speaker 2: I have no.
Speaker 3: I have no expectation that I will try to reach
them all. On the days when it seems like somebody's
having a hard time or whatever else, I try to
be a person who can reach out and help them,
because that's all that I can do for parents. You
have more access to your kid than I do. Reach
out and do what you can.
Speaker 2: And before anybody attacks us for being anti gun, tell
me gun owners of America. I thought we were all
supposed to be responsible gun owners. That's the word I
hear all the time. I don't see anything about responsibility
here when you've got this idiot giving his teenage son,
his troubled teenage son, a gun which he has unlimited
access to, including keeping it in his bedroom next to
the picture of a school shooter. I might add further,
there's additional guns and AMMO in a closet without even
so much as a lock on the door. This is
insane and this isn't responsible gun ownership. I think the
father deserves all this and more. It'll be interesting to
see what happens when the sun Colt goes on trial.
But Colin Gray deserves all of this. What a moron.
Speaker 3: I would love to know if anybody in our circle
can illuminate why the father would have gone on trial
before the son did, I would love to know that.
I'm hoping that this is something that will set more
of a precedent moving forward, so that there is some
accountability on the part of parents who did see something.
Not every parent is going to see something, not every
kid is going to give warning signs. It's my hope
that if a parent sees that something is going on
with their kids, they take the steps that any responsible
parent would do and would make sure that they got
the help they needed, or at least keep the weapons
out of their hands.
Speaker 2: When you have a situation where Colin Gray resisted getting
the son the help that he needed, and yet grandmother, mother,
and sister all testified about his spiraling mental health. They
knew this kid was in trouble, and dad's going out
and buying him a gun.
Speaker 3: There is no happy ending to this for anybody. I
feel terrible for everybody involved, from the victims, all the families.
It's heartbreaking, it really is, and so much of this
is preventable with a little more communication, a lot more
mental health help, and some common sense regulation and responsibility
on everybody's part.
Speaker 2: Totally agreed that is going to do it.
Speaker 3: For this episode of Mind Over Murder, thank you so
much for listening, and we'll see you next time.
Speaker 1: Mind Over Murder is a production of Absolute Zero and
another Dog production.
Speaker 2: Our executive producers are Bill Thomas and Kristin Dilley.
Speaker 1: Our logo art is by Pamela Arnois.
Speaker 2: Our theme music is by Kevin McLoud.
Speaker 1: Mind Over Murder is distributed in partnership with crawl Space Media.
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Speaker 1: You can also follow our page on the Colonial Parkway
Murders on Facebook.
Speaker 2: And finally, you can follow Bill Thomas on Twitter at
Bill Thomas five six.
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to mind Over Murder.