1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Mind over Murder podcast. 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:09,679 Speaker 2: My name is Bill Thomas. I'm a writer, consulting, producer, 3 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:12,839 and now podcaster. I am now trying to use my 4 00:00:12,919 --> 00:00:15,800 experience as the brother of a murder victim to help 5 00:00:15,839 --> 00:00:18,600 other victims of violent crime. I'm working on a book 6 00:00:18,679 --> 00:00:21,440 on the unsolved Colonial Parkway murders and I'm the co 7 00:00:21,519 --> 00:00:24,760 administrator of the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook group together with 8 00:00:24,839 --> 00:00:25,519 Kristin Dilly. 9 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:27,359 Speaker 3: My name is Kristin Dilly. 10 00:00:27,519 --> 00:00:31,199 Speaker 4: I'm a writer, a researcher, a teacher, and a victim's advocate, 11 00:00:31,359 --> 00:00:34,719 as well as the social media manager and co administrator 12 00:00:34,799 --> 00:00:37,799 for the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook page with my partner 13 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:38,560 in crime. 14 00:00:38,359 --> 00:00:43,240 Speaker 3: Bill Thomas. Welcome to Mind of a Murder. I'm Kristin 15 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:47,079 Dilly and I'm Bill Thomas. Here we are again, ready 16 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:51,200 for another scintillating, fun filled hour of podcasting. 17 00:00:51,679 --> 00:00:54,079 Speaker 2: Fun filled if you say so, and I have no 18 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:55,679 doubt on the scintillating part. 19 00:00:56,359 --> 00:00:59,119 Speaker 3: How's everything going today, there, mister Thomas. Everything fine in 20 00:00:59,159 --> 00:01:01,000 the frigid y of Connecticut. 21 00:01:01,079 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 2: It's good. I'm just preparing for more snow. I can't 22 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:06,959 believe it. We need to leave this winter behind. 23 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:08,959 Speaker 3: It's been pretty crazy winter. 24 00:01:09,719 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 2: I can't get back to Virginia if it doesn't stop 25 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:13,159 snowing in Connecticut. 26 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:15,599 Speaker 3: That is true, and we want you to come back 27 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:20,359 to Virginia quite badly. Well, yeah, we definitely have people 28 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:22,359 who want you to come here for live events and 29 00:01:22,439 --> 00:01:25,239 various other things. So yeah, the snow needs to melt. 30 00:01:25,359 --> 00:01:28,000 You need to come back down here, and we're gonna 31 00:01:28,359 --> 00:01:30,840 have some great stuff if we can ever manage to 32 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:32,680 get the two of us in the same location again. 33 00:01:32,879 --> 00:01:35,439 Speaker 2: Absolutely, How can we plot and plan if I can't 34 00:01:35,439 --> 00:01:37,159 get rid of this two feet of snow in my 35 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:38,920 yard exactly? 36 00:01:39,159 --> 00:01:41,079 Speaker 3: That's crazy. That's crazy. 37 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:42,159 Speaker 2: It is. 38 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:46,480 Speaker 3: When we were searching for interesting topics to cover for 39 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:51,239 this week's episode, I was luckily able to come across 40 00:01:51,359 --> 00:01:55,640 a breaking story that broke yesterday actually, and this is 41 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:59,840 something that I think everyone with a teenager should be 42 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:04,200 aware of, and definitely everyone in the teaching profession should 43 00:02:04,239 --> 00:02:07,319 be aware of as well. And so this breaking story 44 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:11,439 happened yesterday. This is March the fourth when we're recording this. 45 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:14,840 This story happened on March the third, and it is 46 00:02:15,319 --> 00:02:20,159 regarding Colin Gray, the father of a Georgia school shooter 47 00:02:20,719 --> 00:02:24,159 who was found guilty in connection with the school shooting 48 00:02:24,159 --> 00:02:28,639 that his son is accused of. And I was very 49 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:32,240 interested in this, largely because the son has not yet 50 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:35,759 gone to trial, but the father has been put on 51 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:39,159 trial and rather quickly, and a verdict was reached rather 52 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:41,919 quickly as well. So we're going to get into the 53 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:45,560 particulars of this case. We're going to use as our 54 00:02:45,719 --> 00:02:52,120 base today an amalgamation of stories from NBC and CNN. 55 00:02:52,759 --> 00:02:57,280 So the reporting here comes from David K Lee, Dan Gallo, 56 00:02:57,439 --> 00:03:01,120 and Aaron Gilchrist of NBC Crime in Corps and from 57 00:03:01,199 --> 00:03:07,360 CNN Crime and Justice reporters Eric Levinson and Maxine Tamsit Bill, 58 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:12,439 do you remember this particular shooting that is the basis 59 00:03:12,439 --> 00:03:16,680 for this story or has all of the shootings in 60 00:03:16,759 --> 00:03:17,520 recent memory? 61 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 2: Have they all just clouded together? It sad to say, 62 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:27,599 I feel like these school shootings have begun to blend together. 63 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:31,719 I'm not sure I remember this one. As we go 64 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:34,439 through the details, some of it may jump out at me. 65 00:03:34,599 --> 00:03:39,120 But there have been so many school shootings, and then 66 00:03:39,599 --> 00:03:44,599 plus we throw in churches and synagogues and mosques and 67 00:03:44,759 --> 00:03:49,439 shopping centers and on the level of extreme violence here 68 00:03:49,479 --> 00:03:53,159 in the United States just seems completely off the charts. 69 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:58,120 To be honest, I'm not sure this one stuck out 70 00:03:58,199 --> 00:04:02,120 for me. I read the facts, some of it started 71 00:04:02,159 --> 00:04:05,280 to come back, but there's been so many of these, 72 00:04:05,759 --> 00:04:09,719 and this is completely unacceptable to me that there are 73 00:04:09,759 --> 00:04:13,879 so many school shootings and shootings of all types mass shootings. 74 00:04:15,319 --> 00:04:17,959 You read articles and they'll say even say, oh, this 75 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:21,399 doesn't qualify as a mass shooting because not enough people 76 00:04:21,439 --> 00:04:25,639 were killed. I just end up shaking my head. But 77 00:04:25,879 --> 00:04:29,439 this one, I don't think this stuck in my head. 78 00:04:30,319 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 3: And it feels awful to say that, but yeah, this 79 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:36,040 is definitely one of those ones. I think it happened 80 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:38,319 in the middle of a series of three or four 81 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:42,399 of them that were particularly They had happened pretty quickly, 82 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:45,279 all in a cluster, and because there was so much 83 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:47,720 else going on in the world, it didn't hit the 84 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:51,639 kind of headlines that a new Town or a Stoneman, 85 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:55,519 Douglas or a Columbine would have reached. So it did 86 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:58,360 take me a little bit to place this particular shooting. 87 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:01,040 And I'm still not one hundred percent sure that I've 88 00:05:01,079 --> 00:05:03,519 got clear in my head where I was when it happened. 89 00:05:03,639 --> 00:05:05,920 I knew I was teaching at my current school when 90 00:05:05,959 --> 00:05:08,720 this happened, but for the life of me, I cannot 91 00:05:08,759 --> 00:05:10,519 even place what school here this was. 92 00:05:11,199 --> 00:05:14,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very sad. It was right back to school time, 93 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:18,600 September fourth, twenty twenty four. But I'm not sure it 94 00:05:18,639 --> 00:05:20,800 really stuck with me either, and that makes me sad 95 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:21,959 it does. 96 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:24,480 Speaker 3: Well, let's go ahead and dig into this. This is 97 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:27,920 This is about Colin Gray, a Georgia father who was 98 00:05:27,959 --> 00:05:31,439 found guilty in connection with school shooting. In a case 99 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:34,600 testing the limits of who is responsible for a mass shooting. 100 00:05:34,759 --> 00:05:38,680 A Georgia jury took the rare action on Tuesday, March third, 101 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:43,360 twenty twenty six of holding a father criminally responsible for 102 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:46,399 actions blamed on his son, who is alleged to have 103 00:05:46,439 --> 00:05:49,680 gunned down two schoolmates and two teachers while he was 104 00:05:49,759 --> 00:05:53,360 armed with an AR fifteen style rifle kept in their home. 105 00:05:54,079 --> 00:05:56,399 Here we go again with the AR fifteens. 106 00:05:56,720 --> 00:06:03,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, the most popular style of assault type rifle sold 107 00:06:03,519 --> 00:06:11,360 in the country. Absolutely insane. I will state here that 108 00:06:11,519 --> 00:06:14,680 I don't have a problem with people owning guns, but 109 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:18,319 nobody needs an AR fifteen. I'm sorry, it's not a 110 00:06:18,399 --> 00:06:23,759 hunting rifle. It's not really a target rifle. I've shot 111 00:06:24,439 --> 00:06:30,000 rifles like that and handguns as well. An AR fifteen 112 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:33,839 is a military style weapon and does not to be 113 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:37,360 does not need to be in a private home. I'm 114 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:42,120 not here to debate gun control, but I find this 115 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:47,800 tragedy so striking and so similar to so many others. 116 00:06:48,439 --> 00:06:51,199 As we were talking about at the top. I don't 117 00:06:51,199 --> 00:06:54,120 even think I can separate them all now, there's just 118 00:06:54,199 --> 00:06:55,000 so many of them. 119 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:59,399 Speaker 3: The charges all come from the September fourth, twenty twenty 120 00:06:59,439 --> 00:07:04,160 four shooting at Appalachi High School in winder Georgia, which 121 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:07,839 killed four and injured nine. The forced lane and the 122 00:07:07,879 --> 00:07:14,639 shooting were students Mason Shermerhorn fourteen, Christian Angelo fourteen, teachers 123 00:07:14,839 --> 00:07:20,759 Richard Aspinwall thirty nine, and Christina Eremi fifty three. Colt Gray, 124 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:24,279 fourteen at the time, is accused of using the firearm 125 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:28,199 his father should have secured to carry out the slaughter, 126 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:34,319 about forty five miles northeast of downtown Atlanta. I think 127 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:36,800 should have secured as the operative word. 128 00:07:36,639 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 2: Here, and very striking that they found the father guilty here, 129 00:07:41,079 --> 00:07:45,399 criminally responsible as the technical term, and the son hasn't 130 00:07:45,439 --> 00:07:47,279 actually been brought to trial. Yet. 131 00:07:48,439 --> 00:07:51,839 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm interested in the whys and the wherefores of that. 132 00:07:52,079 --> 00:07:54,560 Let's keep going here. Now, this is the part that 133 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:58,160 I really do have a problem with. Prosecutors accused Gray 134 00:07:58,279 --> 00:08:01,879 of buying his son in aar Our fifteen style rifle 135 00:08:01,959 --> 00:08:05,680 as a Christmas present and allowing him access to that 136 00:08:05,759 --> 00:08:09,079 weapon and ammunition despite warnings that his son was a 137 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:14,079 danger to others. The indictment alleged his actions constituted criminal 138 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:20,319 negligence by consciously disregarding a substantial and unjustifiable risk. All right, 139 00:08:20,519 --> 00:08:21,879 first of all, why do you need to get your 140 00:08:21,959 --> 00:08:24,639 kid in AR fifteen for Christmas present? I'm sorry, I 141 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:25,519 don't understand it. 142 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:29,399 Speaker 2: Nope, don't nope, I know neither. And this kid had 143 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:39,480 clearly already been marked, if you will, as a a 144 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:44,320 danger to others. I don't know what this father is 145 00:08:44,399 --> 00:08:48,200 thinking and how he thinks this is a good idea. 146 00:08:48,639 --> 00:08:50,639 It's not a good idea to give a fourteen year 147 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:53,720 old and air fifteen to start with, and let alone 148 00:08:53,759 --> 00:08:57,679 a kid who's had problems. And there's so many examples 149 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:03,159 of this. The New Town should is another example of 150 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:08,320 a situation where you had a troubled teenager whose mother 151 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:12,600 decided it was a good idea to allow him access 152 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:16,679 to high powered rifles, and he ended up killing her 153 00:09:16,879 --> 00:09:21,759 and dozens of students in Newtown, Connecticut, about an hour 154 00:09:21,879 --> 00:09:24,879 south of where I live. And you just think to yourself, 155 00:09:25,039 --> 00:09:26,840 what are you thinking. 156 00:09:28,519 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 3: Now? I don't want people getting the wrong idea here, Okay, 157 00:09:33,879 --> 00:09:37,679 like you, I'm not here to debate gun control. I 158 00:09:37,799 --> 00:09:40,360 will say that I come from a family of gun owners. 159 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:44,519 My dad owns guns. My dad hunts with guns, so 160 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:49,080 does my stepfather, So did my grandparents. Like we come 161 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:54,039 from a family that is the pursuit of animals in 162 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:57,120 the outdoors. That was a thing that they did. I've 163 00:09:57,159 --> 00:09:59,679 never liked it, so that's why I don't do it. 164 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:02,720 But it brings my dad and my stepdad great joy, 165 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:07,320 and that is perfectly fine. My dad bought my brother 166 00:10:07,399 --> 00:10:10,679 a bb gun for Christmas one year, but when he 167 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:13,720 did stupid stuff with it. I will not say what, 168 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:16,960 because even though my brother doesn't listen to his podcast, 169 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:19,639 I know I have friends of my brothers who do. 170 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:24,639 Said it will not be implicating my brother in anything. 171 00:10:24,799 --> 00:10:28,399 But when Adam did not use it responsibly, my dad 172 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:31,960 took it away, And it certainly would never have occurred 173 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:34,679 to my dad to buy my brother or me or 174 00:10:34,759 --> 00:10:39,960 any member of our family an AR fifteen rifle bbgun. Sure, 175 00:10:40,399 --> 00:10:43,039 maybe a handgun if anybody had shown interest in it, 176 00:10:43,279 --> 00:10:46,240 but an AR fifteen rifle. Nope, my dad doesn't even 177 00:10:46,279 --> 00:10:50,879 own those. It just it feels like that is crossing 178 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:57,039 a line, yeah, into flat out stupidity. This kid had problems, 179 00:10:57,080 --> 00:11:00,879 as the article we'll get into. I have no idea 180 00:11:01,399 --> 00:11:04,960 what in the world the father is thinking that this 181 00:11:05,159 --> 00:11:07,799 is a good idea. It's just like the Newtown example 182 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:10,559 I brought up, and there are dozens more, some of 183 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:17,120 which are referenced in this article. I'm just flabbergasted at 184 00:11:17,159 --> 00:11:20,480 the level of stupidity that someone is going to give 185 00:11:20,639 --> 00:11:26,440 their fourteen year old kid an AR fifteen. He has 186 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:28,399 some reasons for it that we're going to get into, 187 00:11:28,639 --> 00:11:31,639 but I'm still not entirely clear. I can I don't 188 00:11:31,639 --> 00:11:33,080 think I can get behind those reasons. 189 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:35,440 Speaker 2: But can you hear me rolling my eyes? Can you 190 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:40,200 hear me rolling my eyes? But please continue. 191 00:11:40,879 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 3: That man and his son are both responsible for the 192 00:11:43,159 --> 00:11:47,399 immense suffering that occurred on September fourth. Prosecutor Patricia Brooks 193 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:50,240 set in closing arguments, the blood is on their hands. 194 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:54,480 Colin Gray's defense, though, argued he did not know about 195 00:11:54,519 --> 00:11:57,720 his son's violent plans and had taken steps to get 196 00:11:57,799 --> 00:12:01,759 him help for his mental health troubles. Colin Gray, testifying 197 00:12:01,799 --> 00:12:05,039 on his own behalf, recounted incidents of his son's feeling 198 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:09,799 bullied at school and occasionally showing signs of rage. Still, 199 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:12,440 he told jurors he never considered his son to be 200 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:15,879 a violent threat. I never thought that he would even 201 00:12:15,919 --> 00:12:18,080 have a thought process of bringing a gun to the 202 00:12:18,159 --> 00:12:20,960 school or doing any kind of harm to anybody else 203 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:24,919 on anybody at school, the older Gray told jurors, I 204 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:27,919 will say too again. As a teacher, I get both 205 00:12:27,919 --> 00:12:31,399 a parent side and a student side. Here. I know 206 00:12:31,639 --> 00:12:34,240 that when I get a kid at school, I'm seeing 207 00:12:34,279 --> 00:12:36,559 a side of the kid they probably don't show at home. 208 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:39,360 There is a side of the kid at home that 209 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:42,799 they'd all show at school. When there are parents who 210 00:12:42,879 --> 00:12:45,720 tell me they didn't know that their kid was acting 211 00:12:45,799 --> 00:12:48,480 up at school, or still in the blank about what 212 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:51,039 else was going on at school, I do believe them 213 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:53,799 a lot of the time, because honestly, I don't know 214 00:12:53,799 --> 00:12:56,440 what they do at home unless they tell me. I 215 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:58,320 can understand why their parent and I might not know 216 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:01,120 what they're doing at school. I still don't think that 217 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:05,480 is a good reason to not look further into your 218 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:09,480 children's habits and friends and various other things. But I 219 00:13:09,519 --> 00:13:11,759 can definitely get why there would be some parents out 220 00:13:11,799 --> 00:13:14,159 there that are a little shell shocked when they find 221 00:13:14,159 --> 00:13:16,879 out the life that their kids have at school is 222 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:19,080 very different from the life their kids have at home. 223 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:21,759 So I do you feel bad for this parent only 224 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:24,480 in that he very clearly did not know what was 225 00:13:24,519 --> 00:13:26,720 going on with his kid and he needed to be 226 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:27,480 better informed. 227 00:13:28,399 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 2: Agreed. But for example, in his testimony, mister Gray said 228 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:41,679 that he recounted incidents of his son's feeling bullied at school, Yeah, 229 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:49,039 and showing signs of rage. How does kid being bullied 230 00:13:49,039 --> 00:13:55,600 at school signs of rage an automatic or semi automatic weapon. 231 00:13:56,240 --> 00:14:01,039 How does that make for a healthy combination? It just no, 232 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:05,240 it doesn't, It doesn't. I'm going to admit that when 233 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:07,519 I was in junior high school, Remember my dad was 234 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:10,679 in the Navy. We moved around all the time, and 235 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:13,759 junior high school is often a very tough time for 236 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:16,000 a lot of young people, and it was for me too, 237 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:21,279 But we moved to Deptford, New Jersey, outside Philadelphia. But 238 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:26,639 it's the suburbs now. Back then it was pretty spread 239 00:14:26,639 --> 00:14:29,879 out and rural but starting to grow up with lots 240 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:34,919 of new housing developments. And most of the kids at 241 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:40,159 Deptford Township Junior Senior High School, which I attended, most 242 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:43,200 of those kids were local kids. And we moved there 243 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:49,200 from Hawaii, and that made us exotic and unusual and 244 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:52,639 unlike almost every kid in that school who had been 245 00:14:53,279 --> 00:14:59,240 together in school from kindergarten, we were outsiders. We were new. Yeah, 246 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:04,840 And seventh grade for me personally, was awful. I'd always 247 00:15:04,879 --> 00:15:08,000 done well in school and always got along really well 248 00:15:08,039 --> 00:15:11,840 with the other kids, and I ended up in this place, Deptford, 249 00:15:11,919 --> 00:15:15,480 where I was made to feel very unwelcome. My older brother, Richard, 250 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:18,159 who was in high school at the time, ran into 251 00:15:18,639 --> 00:15:21,440 similar things. As a matter of fact, they even called 252 00:15:21,559 --> 00:15:25,039 Richard Hawaii because when he was asked where he was from, 253 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:28,480 he told them we had been living in Hawaii in 254 00:15:28,519 --> 00:15:32,799 Pearl Harbor for two years previously, and that was very 255 00:15:32,879 --> 00:15:36,000 unusual and even exotic for them, So they ended up 256 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:39,919 nicknaming Richard Hawaii. But there were a couple of kids 257 00:15:39,919 --> 00:15:45,679 that were exceptionally mean and chose me because I was 258 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:51,320 different and these kids were horrible. I'll be frank. I 259 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:57,440 have had fantasies about going back to that little town Deptford, 260 00:15:57,639 --> 00:16:00,960 New Jersey and tracking these two guys down and shooting 261 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:04,399 them to death. It's crossed my mind more than once 262 00:16:04,799 --> 00:16:11,360 over the years. So dark impulses exist everywhere. But I 263 00:16:11,399 --> 00:16:13,919 remember thinking, if I ever found out that I was 264 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:17,200 going to die, that I had a limited amount of 265 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:20,399 time left on this planet, I would track down those 266 00:16:20,399 --> 00:16:22,960 two people, both of whom I could name but I won't, 267 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:27,600 and track them down, wait for them to open the 268 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:32,120 front door of their shitty little suburban house and blow 269 00:16:32,159 --> 00:16:36,240 the two of them away. These sorts of dark thoughts 270 00:16:36,679 --> 00:16:41,720 occur to lots of people. Now, is it a good 271 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:44,360 idea I didn't do that? Yep. Is it a good 272 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:47,120 idea that I didn't have access to a gun or 273 00:16:47,159 --> 00:16:50,840 didn't find out I had a terminal illness? Probably also good. 274 00:16:51,399 --> 00:16:55,879 But my point is that bullied individuals will often have 275 00:16:56,799 --> 00:17:03,919 fantasies about acting out and attacking people from their school 276 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:09,640 that they associated with those bullying incidents. Now, I never 277 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:12,920 did anything about it. But at the same time, giving 278 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:19,480 your troubled teenager access to a high powered military style 279 00:17:19,799 --> 00:17:23,839 weapon is a recipe for disaster, as we've seen here 280 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:25,960 in Georgia. 281 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:32,920 Speaker 3: I'm aghast. Wow. Don't get me wrong. Middle school was 282 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:37,519 no picnic for me either. I distinctly remember getting jumped 283 00:17:37,519 --> 00:17:41,000 at least twice, which you would not think is something 284 00:17:41,039 --> 00:17:44,200 would happen in little, tiny Williamsburg, Virginia. I did. I 285 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:47,319 got jumped by a couple of girls. I was miserable 286 00:17:47,759 --> 00:17:50,880 most times, most days, and that continued all the way 287 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:55,119 up through high school. I don't recall ever having fantasies 288 00:17:55,319 --> 00:18:00,960 of hurting somebody, definitely not carrying it to the extent 289 00:18:01,319 --> 00:18:04,960 that I would do something horrible. But I also lived 290 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:08,480 in a point well before like Columbine was my senior 291 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:14,000 year of high school. It was unsinkable for a school shooting, 292 00:18:14,039 --> 00:18:17,039 Like we didn't have a term for school shooting. It 293 00:18:17,079 --> 00:18:20,319 was unreal. I never thought that I would get to 294 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:22,839 a point where we would see school shootings happen as 295 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:23,559 often as. 296 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,519 Speaker 2: They do, oh every single year, every single month. And 297 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:31,480 this is people, We've got to listen here. This only 298 00:18:31,599 --> 00:18:35,519 happens in the United States. This doesn't happen anywhere else. 299 00:18:35,839 --> 00:18:39,319 I'm not saying there's never been mass shooting in other 300 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:42,200 parts of the world, but they are so rare. And 301 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:44,279 here we are living in a country where there are 302 00:18:44,319 --> 00:18:49,319 literally more guns than people. The access to guns and 303 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:53,720 the lack of appropriate mental health care is a recipe 304 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:58,480 for disaster. You're listening to Mind over Murder. We'll be 305 00:18:58,559 --> 00:19:06,319 right back after this war from our sponsors. We're back 306 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:07,640 here at mindover Murder. 307 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:11,799 Speaker 3: This is interesting. I want to continue getting into this. 308 00:19:12,039 --> 00:19:14,640 The trial was part of a broader push to hold 309 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:18,359 more people accountable for a school shooting, including the shooter's 310 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:22,920 parents and responding law enforcement officers. This case bore close 311 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:26,519 similarities to the trials of James and Jennifer Crumley, whose 312 00:19:26,559 --> 00:19:29,559 then fifteen year old son killed four students in twenty 313 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:33,640 twenty one at his high school in Oxford, Michigan. They 314 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:36,839 were each convicted of manslaughter and sentenced to ten to 315 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:40,480 fifteen years in prison. And I do recall that, and 316 00:19:40,559 --> 00:19:42,880 I remember thinking that was the right call to make, 317 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:45,000 like it was a good precedent to set. 318 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,880 Speaker 2: I do remember the Crumbley case as well, and I 319 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:52,079 did remember that they went after mister and missus Clumbley. 320 00:19:52,759 --> 00:19:56,039 It's a very similar situation with the fifth, fifteen year 321 00:19:56,039 --> 00:20:01,119 old son shooting for students. I think that parents have 322 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:04,720 to take some responsibility for this. If they're going to 323 00:20:04,799 --> 00:20:09,279 present teenagers with access to high powered weapons, they're going 324 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:12,079 to have to be responsible for those high powered weapons 325 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:14,920 and terrible things that happened as a result of candying 326 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:19,160 these off to teenagers who are not equipped to be 327 00:20:19,319 --> 00:20:23,160 handling firearms of this type. We're not talking about taking 328 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:26,119 your kid to scout camp like we used to do 329 00:20:26,279 --> 00:20:30,240 and shooting paper targets with a target rifle, which I 330 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:34,839 have done many years ago. This is a completely separate thing. 331 00:20:35,039 --> 00:20:39,039 And again with the crumblies in Michigan, you think to yourself, 332 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:40,599 what are you thinking. 333 00:20:41,319 --> 00:20:44,160 Speaker 3: The State of Georgia presented its case over about two weeks, 334 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,960 including emotional testimony from students and teachers who survive the shooting, 335 00:20:48,319 --> 00:20:52,519 police interviews with Colin Gray, photos showing unsecured firearms and 336 00:20:52,559 --> 00:20:56,480 AMMO and a bedroom closet, and testimony from the teen's mother, grandmother, 337 00:20:56,559 --> 00:21:00,799 and sister about cult spiraling mental health. Shown pictures of 338 00:21:00,799 --> 00:21:04,200 cult's bedroom, which included pictures of school shooter Nicholas Cruz 339 00:21:04,279 --> 00:21:07,359 on the wall. Cruz killed fourteen students and three staff 340 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,640 members at Marjorie Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, 341 00:21:10,759 --> 00:21:12,839 on February fourteenth, twenty eighteen. 342 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:20,079 Speaker 2: Wow, there's a lot here spiraling mental health. His mother, grandmother, 343 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:23,240 and sister all knew about this, and the father had 344 00:21:23,279 --> 00:21:28,119 to know about it too. Photos showing unsecured firearms and 345 00:21:28,279 --> 00:21:31,759 AMMO in a bedroom closet, not in a gun safe 346 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:36,160 or other appropriate place where guns and AMMO are supposed 347 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:40,680 to be stored and locked up. That's completely lacking here. 348 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:44,200 Oh and by the way, as I should have pointed out, 349 00:21:44,559 --> 00:21:49,160 why is this kid's name colt as in cult revolver? 350 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:54,079 Are we taking our gun culture a little too seriously here? 351 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:58,759 Speaker 3: I don't know. Marcy Gray, the defendant's estranged way CRUs 352 00:21:58,799 --> 00:22:02,279 struggled with drug and alcol addiction, testified their son was 353 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:07,079 friddled with anxiety, easily agitated, and had panic attacks. She 354 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,000 said it was very obvious he needed professional help, but 355 00:22:10,079 --> 00:22:12,839 her husband just didn't want to deal with it. 356 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:15,079 Speaker 2: Yeah, he's going to deal with it by giving his 357 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,160 son an AR fifteen. There's a responsible dad. 358 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:22,799 Speaker 3: Notably, the jury saw body camera footage from May twenty first, 359 00:22:22,839 --> 00:22:26,240 twenty twenty three, when deputies with the Jackson County Sheriff's 360 00:22:26,279 --> 00:22:30,279 Office visited Colt and Colin Gray's home after receiving an 361 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:33,599 FBI tip about an online threat to shoot up a school. 362 00:22:34,319 --> 00:22:38,000 Colt denied posting the threat, and law enforcement was ultimately 363 00:22:38,039 --> 00:22:41,799 not able to substantiate the tip. Colin Gray bought his 364 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:45,000 son the AR fifteen style rifle later that year. 365 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:48,160 Speaker 2: Excuse me while I fall out of my chair. After 366 00:22:48,839 --> 00:22:53,759 law enforcement comes to your home to discuss an online 367 00:22:53,799 --> 00:22:57,440 threat to shoot up a school. After that, you decide 368 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:01,319 the smart thing to do is to give young cult 369 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:03,680 his own AR fifteen. I know. 370 00:23:04,279 --> 00:23:07,839 Speaker 3: The defense called just one witness, Colin Gray himself. He 371 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:11,359 testified he bought his son the firearm and ammunition in 372 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:14,200 an attempt to get him interested in the outdoors and 373 00:23:14,279 --> 00:23:17,599 for father's son bonding. He also said he had scheduled 374 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:20,920 counseling at school for Coult's mental health issues and did 375 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:23,160 not ever perceive his son as a threat. 376 00:23:23,759 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 2: However, Dad doesn't seem to get it but yet. In testimony, grandmother, mother, 377 00:23:31,079 --> 00:23:37,119 and sister all mention Colt's spiraling mental health, but dear 378 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:40,240 old dad doesn't perceive the son as a threat. 379 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:43,519 Speaker 3: He's a good kid, the father said, through tears. He 380 00:23:43,599 --> 00:23:47,079 wasn't perfect, nor was I, but to do something that heinous, 381 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:49,599 I don't know that anybody can see that kind of evil. 382 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:52,880 The cult I knew the relationship I had, there was 383 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,640 this whole other side of cult I didn't know existed. 384 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:59,240 And again this is the part where like as a teacher, 385 00:23:59,759 --> 00:24:02,920 I do you feel bad for parents? Because every once 386 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,079 in a while I will get a parent who calls 387 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:07,200 me when their kid is acting up, and they'll say, 388 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:09,039 I don't know what to do with them, sir or ma'am, 389 00:24:09,079 --> 00:24:10,640 I don't know what to do with your kid either, 390 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,640 because I don't have a child of my own for 391 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,440 this very reason, never mind that I work with them 392 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,279 twenty four to seven. I don't want children of my own. 393 00:24:19,319 --> 00:24:22,559 I don't mind working with them. But I hear parents 394 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:24,200 every day who say I don't know what to do 395 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:26,480 with my kid. I don't understand my kid. I don't 396 00:24:26,519 --> 00:24:29,559 get them. I can get that. So I feeled that 397 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,359 for him, and I guess I could even believe that 398 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:36,200 he couldn't see that other side of his kid, because, 399 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:40,119 like I said school kid and home kid often, very 400 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:44,640 very often do not necessarily meet in the middle. But boy, 401 00:24:44,839 --> 00:24:46,880 I just I do find it a little hard to 402 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:50,359 believe that he didn't know that something was going wrong. 403 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 2: It gets worse yet, in. 404 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:56,599 Speaker 3: A tense cross examination, he acknowledged multiple firearms were stored 405 00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:00,000 in a closet, unsecured and unlocked, and he said cold 406 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:03,799 sometimes kept the AR fifteen style rifle in his bedroom. 407 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,519 He struggled to explain Colt's lack of school attendance throughout 408 00:25:07,559 --> 00:25:11,559 his entire eighth grade school year, per school records, and 409 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,440 he admitted he was aware that his son had been 410 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:18,200 physically violent, had a photo of a school shooter posted 411 00:25:18,279 --> 00:25:21,119 on his bedroom wall, and had texted a few weeks 412 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:24,680 before the attack. Whenever something happens, just know the blood 413 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:25,640 is on your hands. 414 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:30,400 Speaker 2: There are red flags all over the place here. Yeah, 415 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,839 the lack of proper gun storage so that guns can 416 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,720 be kept out of the hands of impressionable young people. 417 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:40,359 The fact that Colt is allowed to keep the AR 418 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:45,279 fifteen rifle in his bedroom, the lack of school attendant. 419 00:25:45,319 --> 00:25:49,279 So this kid's a truant, he's clearly troubled. Then we 420 00:25:49,319 --> 00:25:52,240 add more detailing here we go. The sun has been 421 00:25:52,279 --> 00:25:56,039 physically violent and had a picture of Nicholas Cruz, one 422 00:25:56,079 --> 00:25:59,880 of the Stoneman Douglas school shooters, on his bedroom wall. 423 00:26:00,759 --> 00:26:07,480 He's sending you powerful signals that he's deeply troubled. It's 424 00:26:07,559 --> 00:26:10,680 one thing to have a picture of your favorite band 425 00:26:11,079 --> 00:26:17,480 or sports star or whatever on your bedroom wall. What 426 00:26:17,839 --> 00:26:20,839 a kid is saying when they put something like that 427 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:24,000 up is I admire this person, or I find this 428 00:26:24,079 --> 00:26:28,160 person interesting, or I want to be like them. And 429 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:30,240 so it doesn't matter whether they've got a picture of 430 00:26:30,319 --> 00:26:34,160 Albert Einstein or their favorite rock and roll band up 431 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:39,000 on the wall. They're saying, this is someone something I admire. 432 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:43,519 So if you've got a picture of your favorite sports star, 433 00:26:44,519 --> 00:26:48,319 I get it. Those are positive role models. To have 434 00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:52,200 a picture of a school shooter, Are you serious? 435 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:54,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's so upsetting. 436 00:26:54,519 --> 00:26:56,400 Speaker 2: No one is paying attention here. 437 00:26:57,039 --> 00:27:00,759 Speaker 3: Finally, the jury watched heroin surveillance footage showing Colt Gray's 438 00:27:00,799 --> 00:27:03,599 movements the morning of the school shooting on September fourth, 439 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:07,480 twenty twenty four. School officials and resource officers had gone 440 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,960 to intercept Colt Gray after he made several concerning comments 441 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:13,720 that morning, but in a stranger than fiction mix up. 442 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:18,920 They confused him with another student named Colton with a K. Gray. Boy. 443 00:27:19,039 --> 00:27:21,000 You how unlucky is that? 444 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:22,240 Speaker 2: Yeah? 445 00:27:22,279 --> 00:27:23,440 Speaker 3: How unlucky is that? 446 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,319 Speaker 2: That is awful, no question. 447 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,480 Speaker 3: Colt Gray then armed himself with the rifle, which he 448 00:27:28,519 --> 00:27:31,839 had brought to school hidden in his backpack, fired indiscriminately 449 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,680 into a math class and shot several people in the hallway. 450 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:40,319 Teachers Richard Aspinwall and Christina Arima and students Mason Shermerhorn 451 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:42,480 and Christian Aguila were killed. 452 00:27:43,079 --> 00:27:48,279 Speaker 2: And this sounds completely random too. He's not even targeting now, 453 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:52,079 particularly on the student side. He just seems to be 454 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:54,680 killing it random. Yeah. 455 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,000 Speaker 3: Colt Gray has admitted to the shooting. According to authorities. 456 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:01,880 Now sixteen, he's pleaded not guilt. Took fifty five felony counts, 457 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:05,440 including four counts of malice murder. A trial date has 458 00:28:05,519 --> 00:28:08,240 not been set. And I'm really curious about why that 459 00:28:08,319 --> 00:28:10,160 might be. Why did his dad get to trial before 460 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:10,519 he did? 461 00:28:10,759 --> 00:28:14,519 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's interesting. I'm not sure why that is fifty 462 00:28:14,519 --> 00:28:17,400 five felony counts. I'm wondering if there were fifty five 463 00:28:17,559 --> 00:28:19,000 shots fired. 464 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:20,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm wondering. 465 00:28:20,519 --> 00:28:22,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, I know there were a number of other students 466 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:27,240 that were injured but not killed. The fifty five number 467 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:29,000 created a question mark in my head. 468 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:32,680 Speaker 3: Yeah. Same. The panel in Barra County deliberated for less 469 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,920 than two hours on Tuesday, March third, before convicting Colin 470 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:40,400 Gray fifty five of all twenty seven charges, two counts 471 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:45,519 of second degree murder, two counts of involuntary manslaughter, eighteen 472 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:50,240 counts of cruelty to children, and five counts of reckless conduct. 473 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,960 He faces ten to thirty years in prison on each 474 00:28:54,039 --> 00:28:57,519 murder charge, so that's two and one to ten years 475 00:28:57,559 --> 00:29:01,640 on each manslaughter charge. Two of those at the defense table, 476 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,920 Colin Gray did not visibly react to the verdict. After 477 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,640 the jury was pulled to confirm all the guilty verdicts, 478 00:29:08,079 --> 00:29:10,799 Gray wearing a blue sport coat in khaki pants, was 479 00:29:10,839 --> 00:29:14,960 handcuffed and taken away by court security. Superior Court Judge 480 00:29:15,039 --> 00:29:18,960 Nicholas prim didn't immediately sededate for sentencing, saying there are 481 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,079 a lot of people that need to be notified and 482 00:29:21,119 --> 00:29:23,880 have a right to appear. I assume that means victim's 483 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:24,759 impact statements. 484 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:26,319 Speaker 2: I would think so. Yes. 485 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,160 Speaker 3: Gray faces up to two hundred and forty three years 486 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:35,039 behind Bars. Speaking after the verdict, Barrow County District Attorney 487 00:29:35,039 --> 00:29:38,359 Brad Smith noted the Krumly cases set a precedent and 488 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,160 said he hoped this verdict moves the needle a little further, 489 00:29:41,519 --> 00:29:44,119 and he pushed back on concerns that Colin Gray was 490 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:47,559 being punished for his child's actions. This was a trial 491 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:52,759 about this defendant's actions, his choices, and his responsibility. 492 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:56,359 Speaker 2: Smith said, I hope this can be taken as a 493 00:29:56,480 --> 00:30:01,240 warning sign for parents across the country about how it's 494 00:30:01,279 --> 00:30:06,240 the height of irresponsibility to be giving your teenagers unlimited 495 00:30:06,279 --> 00:30:10,279 access to high powered weapons. If this kid hadn't had 496 00:30:10,359 --> 00:30:14,680 access to an AR fifteen, I don't think anywhere near 497 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:19,119 the same number of students would have been killed and injured, 498 00:30:19,839 --> 00:30:23,079 not to mention the two teachers. We have got to 499 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,400 do better than this. This is a classic example. This 500 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:31,480 kid needed mental health assistance and he did not need 501 00:30:31,759 --> 00:30:35,440 access to a high powered weapon like this. This is 502 00:30:35,519 --> 00:30:38,240 a tragedy all the way around. But I don't think 503 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:43,480 the father escapes his parental responsibilities just because he was like, 504 00:30:43,599 --> 00:30:47,720 I had no idea cold could be this violent. I'm sorry. 505 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,799 Warning signs are all over the place, and here we 506 00:30:51,839 --> 00:30:54,240 go again with the women seem to get it and 507 00:30:54,279 --> 00:30:55,880 the men don't seem to get it. 508 00:30:56,319 --> 00:30:58,359 Speaker 3: I was gonna say that, but that I didn't want 509 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:03,920 to offend you. It really does seem that way, and 510 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,359 of course that's not true in every instance. It's not. 511 00:31:06,759 --> 00:31:07,279 Speaker 2: It's just not. 512 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:11,400 Speaker 3: It is so upsetting for me, as someone who regularly 513 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:16,400 works in the public school system, to hear day in 514 00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:19,759 and day out about school shootings and the links that 515 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,440 parents should be going but yet are not going to 516 00:31:23,519 --> 00:31:27,400 protect their kids, even for basic things such as don't 517 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:32,759 buy your kids military style rifles for presents, don't leave 518 00:31:32,839 --> 00:31:37,359 them unsecured and unavailable and available to them, and for 519 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:40,440 heaven's sake, spend a little bit more time trying to 520 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:42,400 figure out what is going on in your kid's head. 521 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:46,079 It's hard because these kids are difficult. I have a 522 00:31:46,119 --> 00:31:49,720 hard time reaching my kids. Every single day that I 523 00:31:49,759 --> 00:31:52,119 go into the classroom and I can't reach them all. 524 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:52,680 Speaker 2: I have no. 525 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:56,519 Speaker 3: I have no expectation that I will try to reach 526 00:31:56,599 --> 00:31:59,160 them all. On the days when it seems like somebody's 527 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,839 having a hard time or whatever else, I try to 528 00:32:01,839 --> 00:32:04,079 be a person who can reach out and help them, 529 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:09,000 because that's all that I can do for parents. You 530 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,079 have more access to your kid than I do. Reach 531 00:32:12,119 --> 00:32:12,960 out and do what you can. 532 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 2: And before anybody attacks us for being anti gun, tell 533 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,680 me gun owners of America. I thought we were all 534 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:25,000 supposed to be responsible gun owners. That's the word I 535 00:32:25,039 --> 00:32:30,279 hear all the time. I don't see anything about responsibility 536 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:35,720 here when you've got this idiot giving his teenage son, 537 00:32:35,799 --> 00:32:39,279 his troubled teenage son, a gun which he has unlimited 538 00:32:39,319 --> 00:32:42,759 access to, including keeping it in his bedroom next to 539 00:32:42,799 --> 00:32:46,200 the picture of a school shooter. I might add further, 540 00:32:46,279 --> 00:32:50,880 there's additional guns and AMMO in a closet without even 541 00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:53,599 so much as a lock on the door. This is 542 00:32:53,799 --> 00:32:59,319 insane and this isn't responsible gun ownership. I think the 543 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:03,519 father deserves all this and more. It'll be interesting to 544 00:33:03,559 --> 00:33:07,279 see what happens when the sun Colt goes on trial. 545 00:33:07,359 --> 00:33:11,519 But Colin Gray deserves all of this. What a moron. 546 00:33:12,519 --> 00:33:15,960 Speaker 3: I would love to know if anybody in our circle 547 00:33:16,079 --> 00:33:19,920 can illuminate why the father would have gone on trial 548 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:22,200 before the son did, I would love to know that. 549 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:26,559 I'm hoping that this is something that will set more 550 00:33:26,559 --> 00:33:29,359 of a precedent moving forward, so that there is some 551 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:33,720 accountability on the part of parents who did see something. 552 00:33:33,799 --> 00:33:35,920 Not every parent is going to see something, not every 553 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,359 kid is going to give warning signs. It's my hope 554 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,319 that if a parent sees that something is going on 555 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,839 with their kids, they take the steps that any responsible 556 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,000 parent would do and would make sure that they got 557 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:49,920 the help they needed, or at least keep the weapons 558 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:50,880 out of their hands. 559 00:33:51,319 --> 00:33:56,279 Speaker 2: When you have a situation where Colin Gray resisted getting 560 00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,759 the son the help that he needed, and yet grandmother, mother, 561 00:33:59,799 --> 00:34:05,720 and sister all testified about his spiraling mental health. They 562 00:34:05,799 --> 00:34:09,119 knew this kid was in trouble, and dad's going out 563 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:10,519 and buying him a gun. 564 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:14,639 Speaker 3: There is no happy ending to this for anybody. I 565 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:20,760 feel terrible for everybody involved, from the victims, all the families. 566 00:34:21,039 --> 00:34:23,880 It's heartbreaking, it really is, and so much of this 567 00:34:24,039 --> 00:34:28,199 is preventable with a little more communication, a lot more 568 00:34:28,199 --> 00:34:34,559 mental health help, and some common sense regulation and responsibility 569 00:34:34,599 --> 00:34:35,519 on everybody's part. 570 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:38,920 Speaker 2: Totally agreed that is going to do it. 571 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:42,719 Speaker 3: For this episode of Mind Over Murder, thank you so 572 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:45,039 much for listening, and we'll see you next time. 573 00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:58,519 Speaker 1: Mind Over Murder is a production of Absolute Zero and 574 00:34:58,639 --> 00:34:59,840 another Dog production. 575 00:35:00,639 --> 00:35:03,960 Speaker 2: Our executive producers are Bill Thomas and Kristin Dilley. 576 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:06,719 Speaker 1: Our logo art is by Pamela Arnois. 577 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:09,400 Speaker 2: Our theme music is by Kevin McLoud. 578 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:13,880 Speaker 1: Mind Over Murder is distributed in partnership with crawl Space Media. 579 00:35:14,639 --> 00:35:17,800 Speaker 2: You can follow us on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram. 580 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,599 Speaker 1: You can also follow our page on the Colonial Parkway 581 00:35:20,679 --> 00:35:22,480 Murders on Facebook. 582 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,280 Speaker 2: And finally, you can follow Bill Thomas on Twitter at 583 00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:26,960 Bill Thomas five six. 584 00:35:27,440 --> 00:36:05,719 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to mind Over Murder.