1 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:08,800 Speaker 1: Is Pet Life Radio. Let's talk pets. Welcome to Animal 2 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:13,160 Rights on vet Life Radio. So excited that you're joining 3 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:16,359 me today. You got a super show, really interesting take 4 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:20,199 on things. We're gonna be talking to doctor Phillips shot 5 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:25,079 DVM about his latest book Hill the Beasts, a jount 6 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:28,559 through the curious history of the veterinarian arts. So it's 7 00:00:28,559 --> 00:00:33,560 a fascinating tale, fascinating insight to days gone by, all 8 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:36,000 kinds of unique things that we probably looked back on 9 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:39,039 now on treating animals that we think what were they thinking? 10 00:00:39,399 --> 00:00:42,240 And the other ones get you to think, hmmm, that's interesting. 11 00:00:42,719 --> 00:00:45,479 So a lot of good intakes and insights going through 12 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:49,159 a history of veterinarian medicine and how we take care 13 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:53,759 of our furry, feathered, fin and sometimes skilled friends. So 14 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:56,560 it's gonna be a great tale tonight. So everybody hang tight, 15 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:59,399 we'll come back right for this commercial break. You're listening 16 00:00:59,399 --> 00:01:01,439 to Animal It's on Pet Life Radio. 17 00:01:06,359 --> 00:01:10,239 Speaker 2: You know the expression cats have nine lives? Well, what 18 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:12,840 if you can give them one more? The Give Them 19 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:16,079 Ten movement is on a mission to help give cats 20 00:01:16,159 --> 00:01:20,719 an extra life. How with Spee and Neoter Spain or 21 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:24,719 nootering your cat helps them live a longer, healthier life, 22 00:01:24,879 --> 00:01:29,400 and it helps control free roaming cat populations too. Learn 23 00:01:29,439 --> 00:01:33,359 more about the benefits of spe and neuter and meet Scooter, 24 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:37,760 the neutered cat at give Them ten dot org. That's 25 00:01:37,799 --> 00:01:40,640 give them ten dot org. 26 00:01:42,799 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 3: Let's talk pets on petlife Radio dot com. 27 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:52,959 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Animal Writes on pet Life Radio. Joining 28 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:57,400 me now is veterinarian and author doulpe Shot and we're 29 00:01:57,439 --> 00:02:00,680 talking to him about his lace book, Kill thee Beasts. Philip, 30 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:01,519 Welcome to the show. 31 00:02:02,239 --> 00:02:03,519 Speaker 4: Thank you, Thank you for having me. 32 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:06,079 Speaker 1: Yeah, we're super excited about it and the book is 33 00:02:06,159 --> 00:02:09,680 fascinating it to say the least. And I love the subtitle, 34 00:02:09,719 --> 00:02:13,159 A Jaunt through the curious history of the veterinarian arts. 35 00:02:13,159 --> 00:02:15,319 So it's more than a history, it's sort of a 36 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:20,000 walk through the park interesting techniques and things going on 37 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:22,719 veterinary medicine. So tell us a little bit about the 38 00:02:22,719 --> 00:02:23,919 book and how came to be. 39 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:27,159 Speaker 4: Yeah, so you know that subtitle you point out, each 40 00:02:27,159 --> 00:02:30,360 of those words is deliberate, So a jaunt. It's a 41 00:02:30,439 --> 00:02:35,280 light take, as light as the subject matter permits, right, 42 00:02:35,319 --> 00:02:37,240 So there's some things that are just not light about 43 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:41,000 ill animals, but I want to be accessible. There's really 44 00:02:41,039 --> 00:02:43,599 there's nothing on the market anywhere in the English speaking 45 00:02:43,599 --> 00:02:47,120 world that addresses the history of veterary medicine for the 46 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:49,840 general reader. There's some academic works, but I want this 47 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:52,639 to be the general open and inviting to the general reader. 48 00:02:52,879 --> 00:02:58,479 The curious history. It's bizarre, like there are strange, amusing, interesting, 49 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:02,879 fascinating things. Even me, as a veterinarian and as somebody 50 00:03:02,879 --> 00:03:07,439 who's also passionate about history, I just didn't researching it. 51 00:03:07,439 --> 00:03:10,439 It was just one thing after another that I on Earth. 52 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:14,400 I thought, Wow, that's incredible. So so yeah, jaunt and 53 00:03:14,479 --> 00:03:17,240 it's curious, and it's the veteran arts. So it's a 54 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:20,639 science of course, modern veterarian medicine, but it was much 55 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:22,960 more an art in the past. There's still a little 56 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:24,960 bit of art to it if you do it right right. 57 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:27,680 It's not just the cold science. It's the art and 58 00:03:27,719 --> 00:03:30,400 the science. But it's just over the years there's poslay 59 00:03:30,479 --> 00:03:33,039 the arts, to be honest, which is not always again 60 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:35,439 such a bad thing. So yeah, I came to write 61 00:03:35,439 --> 00:03:37,719 it because I saw that there wasn't anything out there 62 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:41,560 like that, and as I said, veterinarian thirty five years 63 00:03:41,639 --> 00:03:44,360 obviously passionate about that. Otherwise we're just stuck with it 64 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:47,840 for thirty five years and passionate about history. And it 65 00:03:48,439 --> 00:03:51,479 was an opportunity for those two streams to meet. I 66 00:03:51,479 --> 00:03:54,120 never thought I'd combine those two passions, and so there 67 00:03:54,159 --> 00:03:54,520 we are. 68 00:03:54,639 --> 00:03:57,919 Speaker 1: Right right. Yeah, Now, you know, there's so many fascinating 69 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:01,039 takes within the books. You're absolutely right, obviously did your 70 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:03,879 research that. A lot of times when we're talking about 71 00:04:03,919 --> 00:04:07,120 you know, veterinarian medicine and reading books and things about it, 72 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:11,360 it's either you know, it's very analytical for us common folks, 73 00:04:11,439 --> 00:04:15,680 very scientific minded for us, or we're talking about a 74 00:04:15,719 --> 00:04:20,680 particular topic, you know, a book about cancer, for instance, 75 00:04:21,079 --> 00:04:25,040 and that's very important. But the fascinating thing I loved 76 00:04:25,079 --> 00:04:27,240 about the book is, you know, how do we get 77 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:29,360 to where we are today? And then sort of you know, 78 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:32,160 getting the reader to think a little bit about where 79 00:04:32,199 --> 00:04:34,839 are we going? Because because I even reflect back, I mean, 80 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:37,399 I've had animals all my life, and I remember those 81 00:04:37,439 --> 00:04:41,319 early days not knowing what to do and even going 82 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:44,879 to my veterinarian it was you know, for domestic animals, 83 00:04:44,959 --> 00:04:47,920 it was the basics, you know, it was a shot 84 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:50,879 here or there, a pill here or there, and even 85 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:55,399 some of those medications and treatments are still around today, 86 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:59,759 tried and true, but then looking back on it now 87 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:04,720 years later, totally different from everything from nutrition to animals, 88 00:05:04,759 --> 00:05:07,199 to how we treat them and what we treat them for, 89 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:09,319 and some of the things that we treat them ways 90 00:05:09,319 --> 00:05:12,160 we treat them in the past where seem really free 91 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:13,240 a story, gaussay. 92 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:17,279 Speaker 4: At times, No, absolutely, in my career I've seen an 93 00:05:17,439 --> 00:05:21,879 enormous change. Obviously, the technology rapidly closing the gap with 94 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:26,720 human medicine and in fact, in some cases maybe surpassing 95 00:05:26,879 --> 00:05:30,120 what's done in humans. Just because we're a little more nimble, 96 00:05:30,319 --> 00:05:32,439 we can do things a little faster, the proof of 97 00:05:32,519 --> 00:05:36,399 process is quicker. So there's that. But more to the 98 00:05:36,439 --> 00:05:40,680 point of the book, our relationship to animals has changed 99 00:05:40,759 --> 00:05:43,160 my time. You know, in the nineteen nineties, it was 100 00:05:43,199 --> 00:05:47,319 still the case, at least up here, that if people 101 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:51,319 refer to themselves as the dogs or cat's mom or dad, 102 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:54,839 it was with a little bit of an idle, ironic flare, right, 103 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:58,199 a little tongue in cheek, a little little chuckle. Now 104 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:02,879 it's absolutely rapeface. This is how they feel, right, this 105 00:06:02,959 --> 00:06:06,000 is the normal language. And then that tells us something 106 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:10,279 about you know, how pets have moved into the family 107 00:06:10,639 --> 00:06:14,560 in a really central way, and that was the case historically. 108 00:06:14,639 --> 00:06:17,720 We think that we're really advanced. We are in some ways, 109 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:20,720 but you go far enough back to skip past the 110 00:06:20,759 --> 00:06:26,439 Industrial Revolution, go further back and go to early medieval Europe. 111 00:06:26,439 --> 00:06:30,240 You find peasants are living with their livestock, right, so 112 00:06:30,319 --> 00:06:34,879 their cattle. For sure, the cow is the their livelihood, 113 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:37,920 but they have to have a really strong bond with 114 00:06:37,959 --> 00:06:41,079 that animal to depend so heavily on it and live 115 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:44,040 so closely with it. You go to pagan times then, 116 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:47,120 and people had a spiritual connection with their animals in 117 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:51,560 a way that we have as modern kind of Westerners 118 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:54,160 we did. That seems kind of weird to us in 119 00:06:54,199 --> 00:06:56,560 a way, but I see it coming back as well, 120 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:58,120 So in some ways. 121 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:01,279 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, I mean the Eastern tradition in the philosophies 122 00:07:01,439 --> 00:07:04,920 are slowly but surely getting into that. And our animals 123 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:09,560 obviously play a key hard in our whole spirituality. And 124 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:12,480 I did enjoy that fact that you know, oftentimes you 125 00:07:12,519 --> 00:07:15,920 thought back before the Industrial Revolution and where you needed 126 00:07:15,959 --> 00:07:20,120 your beasts will say, according to the book, to as 127 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:22,639 you're likely you had to keep them happy and healthy 128 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:24,279 and we're not happy, but you had to keep them 129 00:07:24,319 --> 00:07:26,800 healthy as long as you could, because you can't just 130 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:29,040 go out and you know, get another ox, or you 131 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:31,600 couldn't get another plow horse or whatever it may be 132 00:07:32,279 --> 00:07:34,360 that you need to do. And now it's more of 133 00:07:34,399 --> 00:07:37,519 a combination. If you have a working animal, you've got 134 00:07:37,519 --> 00:07:40,319 to keep them healthy, but it's also you're looking for 135 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:44,680 their happiness and you know, doing different techniques that you know, 136 00:07:44,759 --> 00:07:48,360 massaging your your your horse, these type of things are 137 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:51,040 your cow. You wouldn't have thought of before, you know, 138 00:07:51,519 --> 00:07:53,839 you know, doing a little bit of comfort for your 139 00:07:53,839 --> 00:07:56,800 goat because then it will produce more milk, these type 140 00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:57,279 of things. 141 00:07:57,639 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 4: Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah, it's moving more to the forefront. It 142 00:08:00,839 --> 00:08:03,279 was always there, but people felt a little self conscious 143 00:08:03,279 --> 00:08:05,759 about having expressing those sorts of feelings and ideas. 144 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 1: Right. So, doing the research on the book and going 145 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:12,720 back through history, was there a sort of a threshold 146 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:15,279 you originally set You said, okay, I'm just going to 147 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:18,120 do industrial revolution on and then as you dug into 148 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:19,839 it's like, well I got to get some you know, 149 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:23,040 it keeps going back and then back thousands of years 150 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:25,600 into this. Did you originally come into this with the 151 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:28,759 idea of, okay, i'll treat it from a certain decades, 152 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:32,679 multi decades standpoint, or was it you're wide open to anything. 153 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:34,440 It was fascinating, and I. 154 00:08:34,399 --> 00:08:37,279 Speaker 4: Was super ambitious that wanted to do it all, and 155 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:39,360 in fact, part of it was driven by the fact 156 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:41,919 that one of the very first things I encountered is 157 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:44,960 the first story in there. So the structure of the book, 158 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:49,279 there's twenty two chapters. Each one features a historical veterinarian 159 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:51,840 or animal healer, most of them real people, some of 160 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:53,519 them if you go far back enough, we don't know 161 00:08:53,519 --> 00:08:56,600 who the individual was. So I make someone up and 162 00:08:56,919 --> 00:08:59,960 there's a little story, like a fictionalized vignette, but plausible 163 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:02,600 fiction that leads the reader into that chapter. So the 164 00:09:02,639 --> 00:09:07,879 first one is twelve thousand BC in prehistoric Rhine Valley 165 00:09:07,879 --> 00:09:12,600 and what's now in Germany. They've archaeologists found a couple 166 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:15,840 two humans men and a woman and a puppy buried together, 167 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:19,279 and not just random bones jumble together, but clearly they 168 00:09:19,279 --> 00:09:24,120 were buried on purpose and in a ritual fashion. It 169 00:09:24,159 --> 00:09:27,000 was clear this was deliberate Moreover, we know from the 170 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:30,320 teeth the puppy that it had several bouts of distemper. 171 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:33,559 So distemper affects the enamel in a very characteristic way. 172 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:36,600 So we know this puppy lived with distemper for a 173 00:09:36,639 --> 00:09:38,519 little while. And I can tell you, with all my 174 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:43,600 modern veterinary technology and medicine, distemper fullb bal on distemper 175 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:46,120 is really challenging to get them to survive. It's a 176 00:09:46,159 --> 00:09:49,600 really serious disease. So this puppy survived a little while, 177 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:52,120 so it was getting some kind of care. Number one. 178 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:55,279 Number two, they buried this puppy with them. You know, 179 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:57,720 people in those days they buried grave goods that they 180 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:00,519 thought would be useful in the afterlife, you know, favorite 181 00:10:00,519 --> 00:10:03,840 sword or whatever. Right, a sick puppy not useful in 182 00:10:03,879 --> 00:10:06,919 the afterlife, I'm thinking so, So there must have been 183 00:10:07,159 --> 00:10:09,919 a bond of a faction there as well as this 184 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:12,720 evidence that there was some kind of treatment, you know, 185 00:10:12,799 --> 00:10:15,799 herbal whatever it was that they remembered. People were smart 186 00:10:15,799 --> 00:10:18,559 as we are fourteen thousand years ago, but they didn't 187 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:21,000 have all the hundred distractions that we have. They didn't 188 00:10:21,039 --> 00:10:23,399 have to figure out how to pay their taxes or 189 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:26,080 where the gas was the cheapest, or all that kind 190 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:28,320 of stuff. They just had to focus on the things 191 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:30,120 immediately in front of them, so they could be very 192 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:32,360 smart about that. So that led it off. And if 193 00:10:32,399 --> 00:10:34,960 I'm going to start a twelve thousand BC fourteen thousand 194 00:10:35,039 --> 00:10:36,879 years ago, then I'm going to go all the way through. 195 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:41,039 Speaker 1: You're Goulda easily had like four novels out of this 196 00:10:41,159 --> 00:10:42,039 for sure. 197 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:43,639 Speaker 4: Yeah, And I didn't want to load it up with 198 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:46,120 too much again technical mumbo jumble, so I tried to 199 00:10:46,159 --> 00:10:49,759 keep things moving fairly briskly, so would jump ahead buying 200 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:53,159 hundreds thousands of years in some cases, try to hit 201 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:54,879 the highlights along the way, right. 202 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:56,879 Speaker 1: And I love the fact of that part of it, 203 00:10:56,879 --> 00:10:59,559 how you structured the book, because as we said, from 204 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:02,440 the get it could have very easily been very scientific 205 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:05,639 or even I can imagine. I'm not a veterinarian, nor 206 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:10,120 if I played one on TV, but I can imagine 207 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:13,159 the fascination behind him, because you're in that story. The 208 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:15,759 first story right off the get go is okay, So 209 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:18,759 they bury their puppy. We know they had distemper, but 210 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:21,600 what did they treat how did they treat that you know, 211 00:11:21,759 --> 00:11:24,159 been very easy to dig into that, which is still fascinating. 212 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:26,360 I would love to know what herb they use back then. 213 00:11:26,879 --> 00:11:29,960 We know, you know that we could used today possibly, 214 00:11:30,039 --> 00:11:32,559 or maybe it is still used today. You never know, maybe, 215 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:35,960 but yeah, you kept it more of a sort of 216 00:11:36,039 --> 00:11:39,720 it's historical, it's a factual based on what we know. 217 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:42,720 But yet it's a storyline. You know, when each one 218 00:11:42,799 --> 00:11:45,279 of them holds true, you know, you can go from 219 00:11:45,279 --> 00:11:48,919 one to the other and pick up a nice, interesting, intriguing, 220 00:11:49,159 --> 00:11:53,360 historical story without it being too deep, we'll say, hope. 221 00:11:53,399 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 4: So, yeah, and a man is a storytelling animal, right, 222 00:11:56,159 --> 00:11:58,519 This is how we communicate. This is the most, in 223 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:01,759 my mind, the most effective way of communicating with stories. 224 00:12:02,039 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, So, if you had to go back and 225 00:12:04,639 --> 00:12:06,720 look through it all, is there a one that sort 226 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:08,919 of give you an aha, or you thought, oh, man, 227 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:11,720 I love this, or you know, oh, the readers you're 228 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:13,080 going to love this particular one. 229 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:18,039 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that's my favorite, the favorite child question I 230 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:21,320 can't always explain by any book beaver And yeah, so 231 00:12:21,519 --> 00:12:23,679 you know the one that jumps to mind just because 232 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:26,320 it's kind of funny in a way, and it it 233 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:29,559 kind of piques my sense of humor is the in 234 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:31,639 England and what we know what we used to call 235 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:33,720 the Dark Age, just the early medieval period after the 236 00:12:33,799 --> 00:12:36,799 Romans left, so year six hundred seven hundred around there, 237 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:40,360 the farmers would be turning up as a plowing the 238 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:43,039 fields and better plows plow a little deeper, and they 239 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:46,279 were turning up little stone arrowheads. And they had no 240 00:12:46,399 --> 00:12:49,000 idea of any sense of history that there had been 241 00:12:49,159 --> 00:12:51,440 people's there thousands of years ago that might have had 242 00:12:51,799 --> 00:12:55,600 stone arrow stone arrowheads. They thought it was invisible elves, 243 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:59,799 and they blamed the invisible elves for their life stop being. 244 00:13:00,399 --> 00:13:03,159 So when the horse was ill and the cow was ill, 245 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:06,039 they'd say, ah, it's been elf shot. That was the 246 00:13:06,159 --> 00:13:08,320 term in old English that they used. It had been 247 00:13:08,399 --> 00:13:11,480 elf shot. We must get in the cow leach or 248 00:13:11,519 --> 00:13:15,320 the horse leach, because the veterinarian was the leech, right right, 249 00:13:15,399 --> 00:13:18,639 so dog leach for dogs, horse leach, horse, cow leach, 250 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:21,480 cows apparently they were specialized that way. And he would 251 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:25,240 come around and it's app you know, mister horseleach, my 252 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:28,000 horse has been elf shot. So he would go through 253 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:30,840 this ritual. It was quite this elaborate thing he had 254 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:33,879 a special knife that had to have the handle had 255 00:13:33,919 --> 00:13:35,799 to be from the horn of a cow that had 256 00:13:35,799 --> 00:13:38,399 never given birth to a calf, and had to be 257 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:42,120 fixed with three brass nails the metal part the cutting 258 00:13:42,159 --> 00:13:44,320 part of the knife to the handle. And then he 259 00:13:44,399 --> 00:13:47,279 had to write the name of Christ theo Christian at 260 00:13:47,279 --> 00:13:50,399 that time on the side of the animal, but not 261 00:13:50,519 --> 00:13:52,919 scratch it. It was invisible, but the elves could see 262 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:56,000 it and they would run away in terror. And then 263 00:13:56,039 --> 00:13:58,080 he would be able to heal the animal through some 264 00:13:58,159 --> 00:14:01,200 more mumbo jumbo and then have to give a special stick. 265 00:14:01,279 --> 00:14:03,200 The farmer would be put to work to go get 266 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:05,240 the special stick. We find a stick and it was 267 00:14:05,279 --> 00:14:07,600 just the right stick. Cool, smack the animal on the 268 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:11,559 hind end and presto, it would get better or it wouldn't. 269 00:14:11,799 --> 00:14:14,360 So these guys were a tinerant. They didn't have a 270 00:14:14,399 --> 00:14:17,159 fixed clinic, so they go from village to village. There's 271 00:14:17,159 --> 00:14:19,759 no Internet, there's no five star reputation or anything like 272 00:14:19,799 --> 00:14:23,679 that to uphold. They would just disappear. So I think 273 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:26,879 they often get practical advice too. You know, Dan was bloated. 274 00:14:26,919 --> 00:14:29,519 They'd say, oh, by the way, you might want to 275 00:14:29,519 --> 00:14:31,879 take them off the fresh grass or something like that. 276 00:14:32,039 --> 00:14:35,519 Speaker 1: Right, no, right, but it is fascinating when you go 277 00:14:35,679 --> 00:14:37,200 back through that, you know, and we sort of get 278 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:39,279 a good chuckle out of oh my god, these people, 279 00:14:39,759 --> 00:14:42,080 what were they thinking? You know? But that was the norm, 280 00:14:42,159 --> 00:14:44,399 that was the way you treated them, you know it. 281 00:14:44,799 --> 00:14:47,759 And I don't know for sure. I'm not going to 282 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:51,080 knock veterinarian medicine because I love veterinarians all over and 283 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:53,720 I've got plenty of that I pay for. But that 284 00:14:53,879 --> 00:14:56,600 being said, can you imagine, you know, ten years, one 285 00:14:56,679 --> 00:14:59,519 hundred years from now, some of the things we're doing 286 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:02,399 and they look back and they think, what what were 287 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:06,000 these folks thinking? Or perhaps they uncover something that says, 288 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:09,519 you know that we can't explain it, but that worked 289 00:15:09,519 --> 00:15:13,120 in the olden days. So perhaps we need to brush 290 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:14,200 that up a little bit. 291 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:17,279 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, No, absolutely, I think there's always an arrogance 292 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:20,720 with modernity, however you define it. They were, you know, 293 00:15:20,799 --> 00:15:24,000 in the eighteen nineties, they thought they were the cat's pajamas. 294 00:15:24,039 --> 00:15:30,279 They had steam my god, you know what, so you 295 00:15:30,399 --> 00:15:32,559 will always think that we're it's some kind of you know, 296 00:15:32,879 --> 00:15:35,399 kind of kind of apagy. But it's ever you know, 297 00:15:35,399 --> 00:15:39,080 it's ever evolving, right, it's ever moving forward. And for 298 00:15:39,159 --> 00:15:42,720 sure there's stuff like there's some really odd things in 299 00:15:42,759 --> 00:15:45,000 medicine and that are in medicine that we can't properly 300 00:15:45,039 --> 00:15:47,679 explain right now that I'm sure they'll be Like if 301 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:50,240 I live long enough, I'll have like forehead smacking moments 302 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:52,879 down the road, like how did we miss that? Yeah, 303 00:15:52,879 --> 00:15:55,279 we do not understand that exactly. And you're right, like 304 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:57,919 some old treatments that come back. I mean, I've been 305 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:01,200 in practice long enough to see things come full. Stuff 306 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:03,480 that we did in the early nineties that then was 307 00:16:03,519 --> 00:16:05,840 poot pooed in the early two thousands, Well it's back 308 00:16:05,879 --> 00:16:09,279 now exactly. That happens as well. Some of it is 309 00:16:09,559 --> 00:16:10,440 look all that way. 310 00:16:10,639 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 1: That's the fascinating thing about it is uncovering those old gems, 311 00:16:13,879 --> 00:16:17,879 those old remedies, the the granny clamp and it licks 312 00:16:17,879 --> 00:16:20,600 her if you know that reference from the Beverly Hillbillies. 313 00:16:20,639 --> 00:16:23,440 I don't, Oh yeah, yeah yeah, but some of those 314 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:26,279 things work, so I don't know. So that's interesting. 315 00:16:26,679 --> 00:16:29,559 Speaker 4: And some of it's just logical. There's a story in 316 00:16:29,559 --> 00:16:31,200 there about it, Kitch, just a little briefing about it. 317 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:35,320 Canaries that canaries were popular pets nearly eighteen hundreds, and 318 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:38,200 they would get this wind disease as basically air sack disease. 319 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:41,840 The air sacks would swell up and burst, and then 320 00:16:41,879 --> 00:16:44,960 they get subcutaneous and physimus, they get air under their skin, 321 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:47,919 they'd be bloated. Well, yes, stick a pin in it. Actually, 322 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:50,480 that's all you do, and let the air out, and 323 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:52,559 you know you gonna hold on to it so it doesn't. 324 00:16:52,399 --> 00:16:54,679 Speaker 1: Take off the that's right, that's right. 325 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, sterilize a pin and stick a pin in and yeah, 326 00:16:57,039 --> 00:16:59,080 that's pretty much what we would do today too, if 327 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:00,360 that's right. 328 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 1: But it has to be a special pin with a 329 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:04,599 special feather on the end. And yeah, there you go. 330 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:07,599 All right, we're gonna take a quick commercial break. Then 331 00:17:07,599 --> 00:17:10,799 we'll come back and talk to uh doctor Phillips Shott 332 00:17:10,839 --> 00:17:13,720 about his book Hell the Beasts and pick his brain 333 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:17,039 a little bit more about writing writing styles, because obviously 334 00:17:17,039 --> 00:17:18,920 this is not the first and I'm sure it won't 335 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:21,920 be the last, so we want to hear from the experts. Everybody, 336 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:24,680 hang tight, we'll get back right for this commercial break. 337 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:31,599 You're listening to Animal Lights on pet Life Radio, begging 338 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:33,160 to hear more of your favorite show. 339 00:17:33,599 --> 00:17:33,799 Speaker 3: Cool. 340 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 5: Full episodes of on our shows are available on demand. 341 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:40,039 Go to petlife Radio dot com to fetch our entire 342 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:43,559 lineup of Powsome pet podcasts. Also dig us up in 343 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:49,559 iHeartRadio and iTunes. Let's Talk Pats live only from pet 344 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:53,279 Life Radio. 345 00:17:53,559 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 3: Let's Talk Past, Let's on at Life Radio, Headline Radio, 346 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:02,599 pet live Radio dot Com. 347 00:18:03,039 --> 00:18:06,799 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Animal Rights on pet Life Radio. Tenure 348 00:18:06,839 --> 00:18:11,119 our conversation with Philip shot DVM and author Extraordinary and 349 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:14,920 as Ley's book Hill the Beasts ant through the curious 350 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:19,519 history of the veterinarian arts. So, Philip, after writing a book, 351 00:18:19,559 --> 00:18:22,799 putting it together, is there a certain message or something 352 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:25,839 you're looking for when reader reads through it? Did you 353 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:28,160 have an original goal of what you hope they gained 354 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:30,279 from it? And did that change from when you first 355 00:18:30,279 --> 00:18:31,119 started writing it. 356 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:34,119 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a good question. I mean some of it 357 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:37,839 was just to open up this world to people. I 358 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:41,319 think what veterinarians do sometimes there's a certain people have 359 00:18:41,319 --> 00:18:43,799 an image, they have an idea, and I want to 360 00:18:43,799 --> 00:18:46,519 pull the curtain back. That's my first book a number 361 00:18:46,519 --> 00:18:49,079 of years ago, The Accidental Veterinarian was all about that, 362 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:51,279 just on modern practice. Pull the curtain back. This is 363 00:18:51,279 --> 00:18:53,599 what it's actually all about. Pull the curtain back on 364 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:56,759 this history. But the message is about the human animal 365 00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:01,599 bond and how it's been forever and it's changed somewhat, 366 00:19:01,759 --> 00:19:05,519 you know. So really there are three reasons to primary 367 00:19:05,799 --> 00:19:08,759 and then a secondary reason for people to treat animals. 368 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:12,279 One is emotional. We have a bond with them, and 369 00:19:12,319 --> 00:19:14,279 that as I you know, as we talked about in 370 00:19:14,279 --> 00:19:17,960 the last segment that was right there from prehistoric times. 371 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:21,359 We have good evidence of that. Second is practical, right, 372 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:23,519 so you know this is these are sources of meat, 373 00:19:23,759 --> 00:19:28,119 sorts of eggs, milk, sources of power for plowing and 374 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:29,799 that sort of thing back in the day. And then 375 00:19:29,839 --> 00:19:32,480 the third one we touched on is spiritual. You may 376 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:36,880 view the animal as a as a relative in a way, right, 377 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:42,759 so people believe in reincarnation or those sorts of spiritual connections. 378 00:19:42,759 --> 00:19:44,880 I talk a little bit, just a couple of pages 379 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:47,759 about the idea of familiars in the Middle Ages. You 380 00:19:47,799 --> 00:19:52,119 know how with witchcraft there was this idea of a familiar, 381 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:56,039 this evil connotations, but it was actually considered largely a 382 00:19:56,079 --> 00:19:58,920 positive thing that people would have that kind of connection 383 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,559 with an animal want of people that think about that 384 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:04,680 or these reasons, these copons that we've had animals and 385 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:07,279 that it's it's all cultures, it's throughout the world. It's 386 00:20:07,279 --> 00:20:09,519 not just a Western thing. It's not a modern thing. 387 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:12,200 It's a human thing, you know, from the Inuit to 388 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:15,960 the Australian Aborigines and everybody in between, and from prehistory 389 00:20:16,079 --> 00:20:17,000 to right today. 390 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:19,519 Speaker 1: Nice, I love that. I love that tag and I 391 00:20:19,559 --> 00:20:21,119 want to steal that one from you. For sure. It's 392 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:23,799 a human thing, and it's it's absolutely true. You know, 393 00:20:23,839 --> 00:20:27,240 we try to pigeonhole how we do things here in 394 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:30,559 North America compared to how we're doing them in you know, 395 00:20:30,599 --> 00:20:33,920 Eastern cultures, these type of things. And what I see 396 00:20:34,039 --> 00:20:37,039 is it, you know a lot of blending of what's 397 00:20:37,079 --> 00:20:38,759 going on, a lot of you know, as we become 398 00:20:38,799 --> 00:20:41,960 a more blended society, we learn from this, we learn 399 00:20:42,039 --> 00:20:44,279 how to treat the animals, and we learn, you know, 400 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:48,119 different methods of not only treating them physically, but emotionally 401 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:51,319 and from a spiritual standpoint. And I love the aspect. 402 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:53,480 I've always been open to. You know, I'm a very 403 00:20:53,519 --> 00:20:56,279 spiritual person and obviously do a lot know the animals 404 00:20:56,279 --> 00:21:00,319 are spiritual beings, but learning from other cultures and how 405 00:21:00,319 --> 00:21:03,279 they go out doing things has always been fascinating to me. 406 00:21:03,319 --> 00:21:04,559 And I think you did a great job in the 407 00:21:04,599 --> 00:21:08,240 book here because it brings up these different aspects, you know. 408 00:21:08,319 --> 00:21:10,319 And I think there are people that will read the 409 00:21:10,319 --> 00:21:12,440 book and say, oh wow, I didn't you know. I 410 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:16,359 wasn't expecting to talk about, you know, the relationship and 411 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:19,720 the spirituality and how that blends into what we talk 412 00:21:19,759 --> 00:21:21,319 about veterinarian medicine. 413 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 4: Yes, thank you. 414 00:21:22,279 --> 00:21:25,799 Speaker 1: So the writing side of things, I get to pick 415 00:21:25,839 --> 00:21:28,599 your brain about that. Are you the up at five 416 00:21:28,599 --> 00:21:31,279 point thirty every morning to write five thousand words a 417 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:34,160 day type writer? Or you like me? And I've got 418 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:36,680 one week till deadline, I gotta throw something out there. 419 00:21:37,279 --> 00:21:39,240 Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm more of the former than the ladder. The 420 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:41,960 rest of my family's the ladder. They're all kind of 421 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:44,880 deadline ering people. Now, I'm a bit of an ethnic cliche. 422 00:21:45,079 --> 00:21:47,880 I'm a German Canadian and the Germans of a very 423 00:21:48,079 --> 00:21:54,240 organized So I'm yeah, I said a word target and 424 00:21:54,279 --> 00:21:56,240 I hate it. I just do it. I just sit 425 00:21:56,279 --> 00:21:59,000 down and I do it. In the basic advice is 426 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:03,359 always just right and then edit afterwards. Don't redecide what's 427 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:05,519 garbage and what isn't just just get it out there 428 00:22:05,519 --> 00:22:07,240 and then go back and get rid. 429 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:07,880 Speaker 1: Of the garbage. 430 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:09,880 Speaker 4: But yeah, I'm and I'm a morning person, so I 431 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:11,759 do write, not necessarily five point thirty. That's when I'm 432 00:22:11,799 --> 00:22:15,079 out walking my dog by the writing is, yeah, it 433 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,200 is in the morning. That's when I'm most productive. I'm 434 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:22,000 still part time in practice, so blending those two things 435 00:22:22,079 --> 00:22:25,640 is can be tricky, but I am. In twenty fifteen, 436 00:22:25,799 --> 00:22:30,200 I just very deliberately again, Johnman, I turned fifteen twenty fifteen, 437 00:22:30,279 --> 00:22:32,480 and my fiftieth birthday present to myself is to take 438 00:22:32,519 --> 00:22:34,319 a day off a week to write. And that's why 439 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:36,799 I started writing. And that's when the started as a blog, 440 00:22:36,839 --> 00:22:38,440 and the blog became the first book, and then it 441 00:22:38,519 --> 00:22:39,559 kind of evolved from there. 442 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:41,880 Speaker 1: How about you, I love that. I love I give 443 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:44,279 yourself a gift or a gift of a day and 444 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:46,880 your case is for writing, but for me, it's uh, 445 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,880 and it could be more than napping as definitely walking 446 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,440 the dog multiple times, that's always good. Well, I love 447 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:54,599 that was As far as the structure is concerned, arey 448 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:58,319 do you do a whiteboard or a computer outline to 449 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:00,400 get an idea of what you're doing or said more 450 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:02,680 of here's my topic, I'm on, delve into it, and 451 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,799 then sort of sort through it to see what sticks 452 00:23:05,839 --> 00:23:06,319 after that. 453 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:08,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, I just I kind of write straight, kind of 454 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:10,920 from the head or from the heart. I don't you know. 455 00:23:11,039 --> 00:23:13,400 You think that I'm very organized. I've got lots of 456 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:15,240 list and so on, But when it comes to writing, 457 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:18,440 I just write. And you know I think I pre write. Well, 458 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:20,000 I know, I pre write in my head, so I 459 00:23:20,279 --> 00:23:22,920 do a lot of walking and then win across country 460 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:26,160 skiing and so on. And that's not an earbuds kind 461 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,039 of person. I'm just in my head then, so I'm 462 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:31,799 just thinking and that it comes then and then I 463 00:23:31,839 --> 00:23:35,359 get it out on paper. So yeah, it's not even 464 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:37,079 all the books. I've all been different, you know. I've 465 00:23:37,079 --> 00:23:40,960 written a novel, some memoirs, this, write a whole mystery 466 00:23:41,039 --> 00:23:45,240 series with the veterinarian as the protagonist. And there I 467 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:48,480 really should storyboard that, because boy, I get myself into trouble. 468 00:23:48,519 --> 00:23:50,920 But three quarters the way through a thing, oh no, 469 00:23:51,039 --> 00:23:52,680 I've left all these loose threads. 470 00:23:52,759 --> 00:23:55,319 Speaker 1: I canna try and come up and I am up. 471 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:55,720 Some are. 472 00:23:56,079 --> 00:24:00,279 Speaker 4: It helps have a good editor, Savior Bakon, I tell you. 473 00:24:00,079 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 1: It's always good to know who you killed off last time, 474 00:24:02,759 --> 00:24:04,799 and make sure it's not a fan favorite. You never 475 00:24:04,799 --> 00:24:06,839 want to kill off the fan fait and never the animal. 476 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:08,640 The dogs always live, no No. 477 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:12,440 Speaker 4: I learned first mystery book was fifty seven pigs. It 478 00:24:12,559 --> 00:24:15,799 was called It's an explosion a swine barn that and 479 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:19,400 there's a human body hidden in there. And anyway, all 480 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:21,799 the pigs died like on the first page, and people 481 00:24:21,839 --> 00:24:24,400 were really not happy the. 482 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:26,519 Speaker 1: Pigs when they're in the title what's. 483 00:24:26,319 --> 00:24:27,039 Speaker 3: Going on here? 484 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:29,759 Speaker 4: Exactly? I learned my lesson that's fast. No other animal 485 00:24:29,799 --> 00:24:30,839 to die in any of my books. 486 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:33,359 Speaker 1: I love that. I love that, and I love the 487 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:35,519 fact that I talk a lot about it, you know, 488 00:24:35,519 --> 00:24:38,039 in public, and I've written about it, and with my clients. 489 00:24:38,039 --> 00:24:41,279 I talk a lot about this thing called meditation. And 490 00:24:41,319 --> 00:24:44,240 to me, meditation is anything that allows your conscious mind 491 00:24:44,279 --> 00:24:47,319 to shut off, allows your subconscious to open up. And 492 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:51,079 so oftentimes with meditation you would think of formal mantras. 493 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,920 Guided I mean, I've got professionally recorded guided meditation albums 494 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,160 out there if you want to buy one. But if 495 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:00,680 that's what gets you to that state, and that's great. 496 00:25:00,759 --> 00:25:04,119 But meditation is those walks in nature, doing the cross 497 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,200 country scheme, the things allows you to forget about life, 498 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,519 opens up those channels and allows that the flow. And 499 00:25:10,559 --> 00:25:13,440 I love how you do that for yourself, and then 500 00:25:13,599 --> 00:25:17,079 you turn that into manifesting. You know, a great book 501 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:21,440 and in multiple different genres. So kudos to you. Learn 502 00:25:21,519 --> 00:25:23,160 a lot. We're gonna put you up on the store 503 00:25:23,319 --> 00:25:25,640 on my own personal storyboard. Say, hey, look what this 504 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,039 guy's doing is what I've been talking about all these years. 505 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:31,559 Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I do meditate as well, the you know, 506 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:36,000 a pretty light formal practice, kind of like flossing it. 507 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:39,799 Speaker 1: I've had the pleasure of going through deep meditations with 508 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:44,200 the Tibetan monks and yeah, which was fantastic experience. But 509 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:47,240 you know, their meditations last for hours, if not. 510 00:25:47,319 --> 00:25:50,480 Speaker 4: Days, and wow, yeah, that's something else being a human. 511 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:52,960 Speaker 1: I got about an hour into it and I'm like, okay, 512 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,400 my butt is no, I can't do this anymore. But 513 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:58,319 it was a great experience, no doubt. But meditation, yeah, 514 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:00,759 it's just stealing some time and it doesn't have to 515 00:26:00,799 --> 00:26:02,799 be at a set time every day though, you can 516 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:05,599 do that and it doesn't have to be hours upon end. 517 00:26:05,599 --> 00:26:07,880 It could be five minutes here or there. And I 518 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:11,359 love how you channel that opportunity. So tell us a 519 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:13,640 little bit about where people can find out where to 520 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,799 get the book, and where they can find out about 521 00:26:16,799 --> 00:26:19,359 your activities, all your writings and keep up on what 522 00:26:19,519 --> 00:26:20,680 is happening in your world. 523 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,119 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I said, I'm a modern person. I am, 524 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:25,640 and it's on social media. I'm pretty open. My email 525 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,279 address is easy to find so and my name, my 526 00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:32,079 spelling is relatively unique. There's two or three other people 527 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:34,960 with my spelling in Germany. You won't confuse them. They're 528 00:26:35,079 --> 00:26:38,039 one of them is like a physics prof. There's a photographer, 529 00:26:38,319 --> 00:26:40,880 so yeah, phillipshot dot com. You can find me there, 530 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:46,759 or my publisher in Toronto, ECW press dot com. They've 531 00:26:46,759 --> 00:26:49,359 got all my books listed. And I'm again modern Person's 532 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:53,880 on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, I know carries them over here, Chapters, 533 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:57,079 Indigo carries them. There's e book, all of them coming 534 00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:00,599 ebook and audiobook format, you know, and often that's great 535 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:02,640 for the mysteries, you know, for Heal the Beasts, I 536 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,440 would kind of recommend the hard copy because it's actually 537 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,319 my first book that has a photographic insert. So there's 538 00:27:09,079 --> 00:27:12,079 I don't know, maybe twenty pages of illustrations in the middle, 539 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:15,200 and I'm quite proud of the illustrations I write. From 540 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:18,759 the Egyptian tombes on up to modern Uganda. They've got 541 00:27:18,759 --> 00:27:21,400 pictures in there that illustrate the book. 542 00:27:21,519 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 1: So absolutely, that's fantastical. Everybody pick up a copy of 543 00:27:24,279 --> 00:27:28,319 the book Heal the Beasts Joint Through the Curious History 544 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:33,160 of the Veterinarian Arts by Philip Shott d V. Philip, 545 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,480 thank you so much for coming on the show. That 546 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:39,599 congratulations on the book. It's a fantastic read, very insightful, 547 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,440 interesting and it confirms a lot of what I know 548 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,759 and what I don't know about veterinary mess and then 549 00:27:45,839 --> 00:27:48,480 animals around us. So congratulations on all that. 550 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:50,799 Speaker 4: No, thank you, thank you, er appreciate the opportunity. Thanks 551 00:27:50,799 --> 00:27:51,400 for having me on. 552 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,160 Speaker 1: You're welcome. Well, we're coming to end the show today. 553 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:56,680 I want to thank everyone for listening to Animal Rights 554 00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:59,160 on pet Life Radio. I want to thank the producers 555 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:01,680 and sponsors for me in this show possible. If you 556 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,400 want to drop us a line, ask to have your 557 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,079 favorite authors on or If you have any questions or comments, 558 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,119 you can drop it at petlifradio dot com and it 559 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:13,160 would be glad to entertain your comments, answer your questions, 560 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:15,039 and bring on the people you want to hear from most. 561 00:28:15,559 --> 00:28:17,640 And while you're there, check out all the other wonderful 562 00:28:18,319 --> 00:28:23,759 hosts and shows. It's a corncopy of barking and meowing fun. 563 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,480 Put it that way. So until next time, write a 564 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:29,039 great story about the animals in your life, and who knows, 565 00:28:29,279 --> 00:28:31,559 you may be the next guest on animal rights on 566 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:33,720 pet Life Radio. Everybody, have a great day. 567 00:28:34,559 --> 00:28:39,200 Speaker 3: Let's talk pets every week on demand only on petlife 568 00:28:39,319 --> 00:28:57,119 radio dot com.