WEBVTT 1 00:00:06.120 --> 00:00:09.480 Hey, everybody, welcome back to coming out. 2 00:00:09.519 --> 00:00:11.320 But it has been a minute. 3 00:00:11.400 --> 00:00:15.160 Happy August. I assume no matter where in the world 4 00:00:15.199 --> 00:00:17.800 you live, you are sweating profusely. 5 00:00:18.519 --> 00:00:19.000 Queer Root. 6 00:00:19.039 --> 00:00:23.160 Shout out today is thematic because this movie has recently 7 00:00:23.399 --> 00:00:27.120 been added to Netflix. Was all over queer Twitter when 8 00:00:27.120 --> 00:00:29.879 it finally happened. Shout out to you if your queer 9 00:00:29.920 --> 00:00:34.039 root is either of the two girls as featured in 10 00:00:34.079 --> 00:00:37.119 the film The Incredibly True Adventure of Two Girls in Love. 11 00:00:37.640 --> 00:00:40.320 This movie was from nineteen ninety five in a true 12 00:00:40.359 --> 00:00:44.600 indie movie, back when indie movies were like legit indie 13 00:00:44.920 --> 00:00:48.640 it stars Okay, So the two girls are Nicole Ari Parker, 14 00:00:48.719 --> 00:00:51.799 who went on I think soul food was the big 15 00:00:51.840 --> 00:00:56.439 thing that she did. And then the other girl is 16 00:00:56.520 --> 00:00:59.079 named Laurel Holloman. Perhaps you are familiar with her work 17 00:00:59.159 --> 00:01:02.840 on the Elbor and the L Word Generation Cure. Yes, Tina, 18 00:01:03.079 --> 00:01:06.359 this was She's a very They're both very young in 19 00:01:06.400 --> 00:01:08.920 this movie. This is super formative movie for a lot 20 00:01:08.920 --> 00:01:13.159 of people. Is it an amazing movie? I wouldn't go 21 00:01:13.239 --> 00:01:15.599 that far, but it is a very important movie to 22 00:01:15.719 --> 00:01:18.599 queer culture, one of the first ninety five and now 23 00:01:18.599 --> 00:01:20.480 you can watch it on Netflix, which is very cool. 24 00:01:20.640 --> 00:01:21.959 Shout out to you if you. 25 00:01:22.120 --> 00:01:27.079 Are around my age and this movie was perhaps formative 26 00:01:27.120 --> 00:01:31.599 for you, y'all. My guest today is an artist known 27 00:01:31.760 --> 00:01:33.319 as Boy Junior. 28 00:01:33.439 --> 00:01:33.879 Hello. 29 00:01:33.959 --> 00:01:35.599 I'm so excited to have you here. 30 00:01:35.680 --> 00:01:37.840 Welcome, Hello, Thank you so much for having me. 31 00:01:38.680 --> 00:01:39.840 Yeah, I'm gonna okay. 32 00:01:39.879 --> 00:01:43.920 So basically, I don't even want to try to describe 33 00:01:43.959 --> 00:01:47.359 your genre, because I am sure there are words that 34 00:01:47.400 --> 00:01:51.040 are much hipper and cooler then I will come up. 35 00:01:51.319 --> 00:01:53.200 So I'll leave that to you. But what I will 36 00:01:53.239 --> 00:01:56.000 say is that you have an album that is going 37 00:01:56.040 --> 00:01:59.439 to be coming out. The probable date is October twenty third. 38 00:01:59.760 --> 00:02:02.280 The album title is phenomenal. It is called I Love 39 00:02:02.319 --> 00:02:04.680 Getting Dumped and there are some singles out from it 40 00:02:04.760 --> 00:02:08.280 already that you can listen to. Check out these titles. 41 00:02:08.319 --> 00:02:12.319 The titles are I Hope you feel terrible, bullying myself 42 00:02:12.360 --> 00:02:15.719 and by the time this episode is released, Still be 43 00:02:15.840 --> 00:02:18.879 Friends will likely be out too, So I think we're 44 00:02:18.919 --> 00:02:23.159 sensing a theme for this album. The definitely this is 45 00:02:23.240 --> 00:02:25.439 right up my alley. This is the kind of music 46 00:02:25.560 --> 00:02:28.039 that I am. Yeah, this is what I use music 47 00:02:28.080 --> 00:02:31.479 for personally. Is this kind of versis yeah, and I love, 48 00:02:31.879 --> 00:02:33.800 I love I've heard bullying myself, and I hope you 49 00:02:33.800 --> 00:02:35.520 feel terrible and love both of those. 50 00:02:36.479 --> 00:02:39.319 But yeah, do you want to We'll get to. 51 00:02:39.240 --> 00:02:41.639 How you identify in a moment, but musically, do you 52 00:02:41.680 --> 00:02:45.039 want to share, like what you feel your how you 53 00:02:45.080 --> 00:02:48.199 would describe your genre or this particular album, or what 54 00:02:48.240 --> 00:02:50.879 words you like to use to describe your work. 55 00:02:52.479 --> 00:02:54.039 Well, I honestly like to make it a bit of 56 00:02:54.039 --> 00:02:56.319 a running joke that I don't know how to describe it. 57 00:02:57.199 --> 00:03:00.400 And the joke is not a joke because it's true, 58 00:03:00.639 --> 00:03:05.719 because it's one always very hard to describe your own 59 00:03:05.800 --> 00:03:11.919 music to somebody who's never heard it and probably has 60 00:03:12.039 --> 00:03:16.800 very different frames of reference to different genres than than yourself. 61 00:03:18.159 --> 00:03:21.599 But also because I feel like I fuse a lot 62 00:03:21.639 --> 00:03:28.319 of influences into what I'm making. So although it just 63 00:03:28.439 --> 00:03:32.400 falls under the category of like indie alternative and like pop. 64 00:03:32.280 --> 00:03:36.439 And balk, yeah, it's very danceable too, though I feel like. 65 00:03:36.759 --> 00:03:45.439 Like, yeah, what did I recently call it? Like high energy, 66 00:03:45.520 --> 00:03:47.520 weirdo sound design pop? 67 00:03:48.159 --> 00:03:51.280 Oh, that's I would go with that one. Yeah, I 68 00:03:51.439 --> 00:03:51.919 like that. 69 00:03:54.159 --> 00:03:57.680 It's hard to put into like one or two words, 70 00:03:57.800 --> 00:04:04.280 but five descript I think is at least at least 71 00:04:04.280 --> 00:04:08.199 makes me feel like I'm starting to represent myself in 72 00:04:08.280 --> 00:04:09.240 words decently. 73 00:04:09.919 --> 00:04:10.759 That's awesome. 74 00:04:10.960 --> 00:04:13.120 And is this album in particular? 75 00:04:14.759 --> 00:04:15.919 I love getting dumped? 76 00:04:16.079 --> 00:04:19.480 Did this come out of one particular dumping? A series 77 00:04:19.519 --> 00:04:22.000 of dumpings that hit a reservoir point where you were, like, 78 00:04:22.040 --> 00:04:24.680 I got to write a now album, like what's the backs? 79 00:04:24.839 --> 00:04:29.399 It was a series? So the concept is it all? 80 00:04:29.439 --> 00:04:34.319 It's all music from between like twenty twenty and twenty 81 00:04:34.399 --> 00:04:39.920 twenty four that I wrote about different relationships and like 82 00:04:40.000 --> 00:04:44.480 after different relationships and situationships, and yeah, it was kind 83 00:04:44.519 --> 00:04:47.120 of like a reservoir. I just realized I had a 84 00:04:47.160 --> 00:04:54.480 lot of music about different kinds of breakups that are 85 00:04:54.480 --> 00:05:01.160 all like stylistically different and different in my abilities and 86 00:05:01.560 --> 00:05:06.000 tastes as a writer and producer. So I wanted to 87 00:05:06.040 --> 00:05:08.800 just kind of like get that era out there and 88 00:05:08.879 --> 00:05:10.120 over with and behind me. 89 00:05:11.000 --> 00:05:14.839 Yes, okay, cure album album? 90 00:05:15.000 --> 00:05:16.120 Yeah? 91 00:05:16.240 --> 00:05:18.519 Yeah, oh god, I love that. I do. 92 00:05:18.560 --> 00:05:22.279 On Spotify, I have something I think it's what did 93 00:05:22.319 --> 00:05:24.519 I call it? It might just be called like, oh no, 94 00:05:24.600 --> 00:05:26.399 it's called breaking up is hard to do. That's in 95 00:05:26.560 --> 00:05:27.319 what I titled it. 96 00:05:27.360 --> 00:05:27.959 But it is my. 97 00:05:28.120 --> 00:05:31.639 Epic breakup playlist. Yeah, I think it's like three and 98 00:05:31.680 --> 00:05:33.720 a half hours at this point. Like every once in 99 00:05:33.759 --> 00:05:35.879 a while I'll add something to it. But yeah, it's 100 00:05:35.879 --> 00:05:39.399 stemmed from one particular shitty breakup and then just became 101 00:05:39.519 --> 00:05:43.399 representative of all breakups of years past, and it's just 102 00:05:43.480 --> 00:05:47.160 like getting longer and longer and longer. So I'm very 103 00:05:47.160 --> 00:05:50.639 excited about the theme and title of this album. 104 00:05:50.839 --> 00:05:53.279 Yes, very excited to continue your playlist. 105 00:05:56.040 --> 00:05:59.000 That's so true. I'll be able to scatter you throughout it. 106 00:05:59.120 --> 00:06:02.959 Oh yeah, once the album drops. So yeah, so I 107 00:06:03.680 --> 00:06:05.480 teased it a little bit, but yeah, for the folks 108 00:06:05.480 --> 00:06:08.639 at home, how do you identify in terms of yeah, 109 00:06:08.680 --> 00:06:10.079 any in all words. 110 00:06:09.720 --> 00:06:16.279 That you like, Yeah, I am non binary. I'm a 111 00:06:16.319 --> 00:06:23.519 non binary unknowable entity. Ooh who lives in your walls? 112 00:06:24.120 --> 00:06:24.920 Oh yeah, okay. 113 00:06:25.000 --> 00:06:28.759 I was like, come on, I'm out with that is 114 00:06:28.800 --> 00:06:32.639 a very that's that's a first like I've been doing. 115 00:06:32.680 --> 00:06:34.839 You know, I'm at almost three hundred episodes, but that 116 00:06:35.040 --> 00:06:38.360 is a completely unique identifier. 117 00:06:38.439 --> 00:06:39.879 So I really appreciate that. 118 00:06:40.160 --> 00:06:40.480 Thank you. 119 00:06:40.560 --> 00:06:44.439 Thank God. I'm very I'm very serious about I'm very 120 00:06:44.439 --> 00:06:47.480 serious about trying to become a category we don't yet have, 121 00:06:47.519 --> 00:06:51.360 become a thing in a category we don't yet have, 122 00:06:51.959 --> 00:06:56.360 Hence the high energy weirdo sound design pomp. 123 00:06:56.680 --> 00:07:02.680 I love it, God damn. Yeah, No, is definitely I 124 00:07:02.720 --> 00:07:04.800 love all of your descriptors are artistic. 125 00:07:06.000 --> 00:07:08.279 I guess that's always that's kind of just what it 126 00:07:08.279 --> 00:07:11.519 comes down to. No, but I guess I all in seriousness, 127 00:07:11.560 --> 00:07:17.000 I am non binary slash, I guess gender queer and 128 00:07:17.120 --> 00:07:18.079 just queer in general. 129 00:07:18.879 --> 00:07:19.439 Beautiful. 130 00:07:20.399 --> 00:07:27.800 Okay, So I know nothing about your personal story. I've 131 00:07:27.800 --> 00:07:30.480 been I always try not to, like before I do 132 00:07:30.519 --> 00:07:33.399 these episodes, I'll read like a little bit of I'll 133 00:07:33.399 --> 00:07:35.600 listen to music, I'll read like artistic backgrounds. 134 00:07:35.600 --> 00:07:38.319 But I'm very I try very hard to avoid. 135 00:07:38.319 --> 00:07:41.439 Any like spoilers in terms of people's lives so that 136 00:07:41.519 --> 00:07:43.639 I can be hearing it fresh. So yeah, I'm so 137 00:07:44.000 --> 00:07:47.480 curious to hear your whole your coming out what you 138 00:07:47.519 --> 00:07:50.279 consider your coming out story. Yeah, it sounds like there 139 00:07:50.279 --> 00:07:51.839 are probably several coming out. 140 00:07:51.800 --> 00:07:56.920 So yeah, yeah, that's that's kind of more accurate. 141 00:07:56.959 --> 00:07:58.680 I definitely for sure. 142 00:07:59.240 --> 00:08:02.839 I I feel like I have never really like come 143 00:08:02.920 --> 00:08:10.120 out formally, like I feel like for my generation, for 144 00:08:10.160 --> 00:08:19.800 any of our generations who grew up alongside the Internet 145 00:08:19.839 --> 00:08:26.480 becoming a big, big constant in our lives. I think 146 00:08:26.480 --> 00:08:30.480 for anybody of these generations, coming out often equates to 147 00:08:30.680 --> 00:08:35.399 making an update on Facebook or Instagram or Twitter, and 148 00:08:35.440 --> 00:08:43.039 I never I never did that. The only thing like 149 00:08:43.720 --> 00:08:48.679 I feel like, in terms of like a public coming out, 150 00:08:48.840 --> 00:08:52.200 I put out a song last year that's like about 151 00:08:52.360 --> 00:08:56.720 gender and about feeling like I, you know, I'm neither 152 00:08:56.759 --> 00:08:59.120 here nor there, and I'm just like an artistic expression 153 00:08:59.480 --> 00:09:02.919 and for at to share the song, I had made 154 00:09:02.960 --> 00:09:05.759 some posts that were like, I've never really come out before, 155 00:09:05.840 --> 00:09:07.799 but this song is kind of the closest thing to it, 156 00:09:07.879 --> 00:09:10.440 So I guess here I'm coming out. But it's definitely 157 00:09:10.480 --> 00:09:12.519 felt like the kind of thing that it's like you 158 00:09:12.600 --> 00:09:15.919 either know already or you don't and you don't need Yes. 159 00:09:16.200 --> 00:09:20.080 Yes, yes, that's and so speaking of that, you're did 160 00:09:20.080 --> 00:09:22.759 you blow up on TikTok first or you just like, 161 00:09:22.799 --> 00:09:25.679 what what was your route for in terms of your following, 162 00:09:25.720 --> 00:09:28.879 because you have like a dedicated following. 163 00:09:29.159 --> 00:09:34.519 Oh thank you. I'm always very scared that that it's 164 00:09:34.559 --> 00:09:38.720 not real and if the apps decide they don't want 165 00:09:38.759 --> 00:09:40.480 to show my stuff anymore, it'll all go away. 166 00:09:40.559 --> 00:09:43.919 Oh god, we're all yeah, trying to figure the algorithms 167 00:09:44.000 --> 00:09:47.240 change hourly. So I think that, like I think just 168 00:09:47.799 --> 00:09:49.759 once you have people who like your work, they will 169 00:09:49.759 --> 00:09:51.240 seek you out, regardless of how the. 170 00:09:51.519 --> 00:09:52.799 Really tries to like bear it. 171 00:09:52.919 --> 00:09:56.200 I really really hope. So yeah, for the sake of 172 00:09:56.240 --> 00:10:03.639 everybody in the arts, I really exactly what you just said. Yeah, 173 00:10:03.679 --> 00:10:07.799 I think the first experiences I had with videos kind 174 00:10:07.799 --> 00:10:12.159 of like breaching containment. No, breaching containment is when is 175 00:10:12.159 --> 00:10:15.320 when it goes beyond being seen by the intended audience. 176 00:10:15.320 --> 00:10:16.679 I would say it's just the first time that I 177 00:10:16.679 --> 00:10:19.879 had stuff that like reached more people than I was 178 00:10:20.000 --> 00:10:23.519 used to. And when I've had stuff that's gone viral, 179 00:10:23.559 --> 00:10:29.559 the first experiences have been on TikTok in like twenty nineteen. Yeah, 180 00:10:29.679 --> 00:10:30.840 So that's funny. 181 00:10:30.600 --> 00:10:34.240 Really for that platform. That's like, yeah, yeah, it was back. 182 00:10:34.320 --> 00:10:38.120 It was back when you could like really put yourself 183 00:10:38.120 --> 00:10:40.759 out there as an artist. I'm like, yeah, really it was, 184 00:10:41.559 --> 00:10:42.960 it was back when things were simpler. 185 00:10:43.440 --> 00:10:44.720 Well, that's what I'm wondering. 186 00:10:44.799 --> 00:10:47.519 It's like, did you find when you did sort of 187 00:10:47.559 --> 00:10:50.320 breach containment, which I love because it sounds very like 188 00:10:50.679 --> 00:10:54.679 zombie movie, but like, were you like, oh, this is 189 00:10:54.799 --> 00:10:58.600 like it's mostly like queer people and I feel safe 190 00:10:58.639 --> 00:11:00.879 and good about them finding it, or were you You're like, oh, oh, 191 00:11:00.919 --> 00:11:04.759 like this could be anybody, Like how is the reaction 192 00:11:05.120 --> 00:11:05.519 gonna be? 193 00:11:05.799 --> 00:11:09.279 Just like is that yeah? As an artist? Is that yeah? 194 00:11:09.879 --> 00:11:12.240 Yeah? Okay, yes and no. And I actually think that 195 00:11:12.360 --> 00:11:18.960 question kind of touches on like another interesting like thing 196 00:11:19.000 --> 00:11:22.399 that's been running on the side, which is that I 197 00:11:22.440 --> 00:11:28.519 feel like I had multiple coming outs because I like 198 00:11:30.399 --> 00:11:37.759 started like being more of myself and like I feel 199 00:11:37.759 --> 00:11:40.960 like I had like multiple like gender crises, where like 200 00:11:41.080 --> 00:11:43.960 I had like the first one where I was like, oh, okay, 201 00:11:44.080 --> 00:11:46.639 I understand who I am and this is the what 202 00:11:46.720 --> 00:11:51.960 I'm gonna roll with. And then stuff changed, not even 203 00:11:52.159 --> 00:11:55.919 like I don't know, life circumstances changed and I was 204 00:11:56.320 --> 00:12:01.840 going through a transition of being in school to not 205 00:12:02.000 --> 00:12:06.440 being in school anymore, and I just like put it 206 00:12:06.480 --> 00:12:08.799 on the back burner and I was. 207 00:12:08.759 --> 00:12:09.759 Like, I don't know. 208 00:12:09.799 --> 00:12:11.080 I was kind of trying to I was trying to 209 00:12:11.080 --> 00:12:13.320 figure out where I stood with with gender and what 210 00:12:13.399 --> 00:12:18.159 kind of pronouns I wanted to use. And I was 211 00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:21.399 very interested in top surgery and starting tea and I was, 212 00:12:21.480 --> 00:12:23.440 but I was like, Nope, not the time yet. I 213 00:12:23.639 --> 00:12:26.879 just not yet. And then I feel like I went 214 00:12:26.919 --> 00:12:29.799 in the opposite direction and I was like, oh, I'm 215 00:12:29.799 --> 00:12:32.440 out in the real world. And I think I just 216 00:12:32.480 --> 00:12:36.440 had a lot of fear about figuring out what I 217 00:12:36.519 --> 00:12:38.600 was just how I was going to like make it 218 00:12:38.639 --> 00:12:41.440 and what I was going to do, and I think 219 00:12:41.480 --> 00:12:43.919 I felt at that time a lot of that hinged 220 00:12:44.000 --> 00:12:48.200 on being as desirable as possible to as large a 221 00:12:48.240 --> 00:12:50.720 pool of people as possible. So I went like, really, 222 00:12:50.799 --> 00:12:59.120 femme again, yeah, and not that really wasn't enjoying myself 223 00:12:59.279 --> 00:13:02.320 then too, Like I think I'm like anybody. I'm a 224 00:13:02.399 --> 00:13:07.000 multifaceted person and personally I have like a million different 225 00:13:07.039 --> 00:13:11.000 senses of style, and there's just such a. 226 00:13:10.960 --> 00:13:14.720 Difference I feel like to having that be like organ 227 00:13:14.919 --> 00:13:18.200 like that fluidity be organic, versus thinking like, well, when 228 00:13:18.200 --> 00:13:21.039 am I releasing this, and like what kind of like 229 00:13:21.080 --> 00:13:24.639 when you when you're trying to break through as an artist, 230 00:13:25.360 --> 00:13:26.919 you have to think about that shit. 231 00:13:27.080 --> 00:13:28.559 And it's like it's so hard. 232 00:13:28.320 --> 00:13:31.320 To think about gender and presentation just as a normal 233 00:13:31.360 --> 00:13:35.080 person who's not visually on display, but as an artist 234 00:13:35.200 --> 00:13:38.039 it's like, fuck, now I gotta like do this kind 235 00:13:38.039 --> 00:13:41.559 of publicly. Yeah, it makes you long for the days 236 00:13:41.559 --> 00:13:43.720 of radio. I'm like, no one knew what anyone looks well, 237 00:13:45.000 --> 00:13:45.879 just like whatever. 238 00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:50.320 I like, how this sounds like so different now. 239 00:13:51.039 --> 00:13:59.679 Yeah, I definitely just put gender on the back burner. Yeah, 240 00:14:00.080 --> 00:14:03.159 And that's been an interesting thing the way that's correlated 241 00:14:03.399 --> 00:14:11.039 to my increasingly online experience because once I was like, 242 00:14:11.080 --> 00:14:13.720 you know, okay, I'm gonna make my whole thing, like 243 00:14:13.759 --> 00:14:16.759 I'm going to play live shows and try to go 244 00:14:16.799 --> 00:14:19.679 on tour, and I hadn't really figured out, you know, 245 00:14:19.960 --> 00:14:22.600 content yet. I was very active on social media, but 246 00:14:23.919 --> 00:14:30.919 it was before reels existed, and it was before TikTok 247 00:14:31.240 --> 00:14:35.519 was as popular. So I was doing a lot of 248 00:14:35.559 --> 00:14:38.679 live shows locally and then trying to play out of 249 00:14:38.720 --> 00:14:43.440 town sometimes, and just the vibe I was going for 250 00:14:43.639 --> 00:14:50.960 was very different. It was like when I first started 251 00:14:50.960 --> 00:14:54.360 doing shows before that and I was like, Okay, I 252 00:14:54.360 --> 00:14:56.120 have to pick an artist name and I wanted to 253 00:14:56.120 --> 00:14:59.600 be Boyd Junior. That was very very in tandem with 254 00:14:59.639 --> 00:15:03.559 me being like I'm trying I'm exploring gender, like let's 255 00:15:03.559 --> 00:15:07.440 do this. I was like going for like very like 256 00:15:07.679 --> 00:15:12.759 visibly queer vibes, ah, and like cut my hair short 257 00:15:12.799 --> 00:15:14.720 for the first time and was going for very like 258 00:15:15.320 --> 00:15:20.000 pretty boy vibes, and then I was like, pault, I'm 259 00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:21.480 not going to do that for a little bit. I'm 260 00:15:21.480 --> 00:15:27.879 gonna go like hyper fem Saint Vincent's album Mass Seduction 261 00:15:27.960 --> 00:15:29.759 had just come out, and I was like, I want 262 00:15:29.759 --> 00:15:30.120 to be that. 263 00:15:30.840 --> 00:15:32.879 Okay, I want my hair. 264 00:15:32.799 --> 00:15:36.679 Long again, and I want to be like super sexy, weird, 265 00:15:38.759 --> 00:15:43.480 and like that's still like a piece of me as 266 00:15:43.519 --> 00:15:48.840 a person. But I think that was also coming from 267 00:15:48.840 --> 00:15:58.759 a place of me seeking memorability, and I think it 268 00:15:58.799 --> 00:16:00.320 was coming from a place of like fear and a 269 00:16:00.320 --> 00:16:05.960 little bit of desperation, not consciously, definitely subconsciously, just the 270 00:16:05.960 --> 00:16:09.039 way you go and go through the world and see 271 00:16:09.039 --> 00:16:13.000 that when when people are attracted to somebody, even subconsciously, 272 00:16:13.200 --> 00:16:15.399 they just treat them better. So that's you know, that's 273 00:16:15.399 --> 00:16:23.399 what pretty privilege is and all all that stuff. So 274 00:16:25.120 --> 00:16:29.799 it's been interesting in tandem to now be in another 275 00:16:29.840 --> 00:16:36.879 phase of my life where I am feeling far truer 276 00:16:36.919 --> 00:16:39.440 to myself than I have felt in the past, and 277 00:16:39.480 --> 00:16:41.960 I feel like I am making decisions based on comfort 278 00:16:42.080 --> 00:16:45.759 instead of like fear or desperation or anything else, or 279 00:16:45.799 --> 00:16:51.639 like desire to feel desirable, And I think, yeah, part 280 00:16:51.679 --> 00:16:53.759 of that's just like growing up and like just getting 281 00:16:53.759 --> 00:16:57.679 older and more comfortable with yourself. But I think also 282 00:16:57.759 --> 00:17:03.559 just accepting how I want to be, just what my 283 00:17:06.240 --> 00:17:12.119 non conforming identity really entails. And so it's been especially 284 00:17:12.119 --> 00:17:16.680 interesting within the last year where I have made that 285 00:17:16.720 --> 00:17:24.240 more visibly evident and audibly evident and definitely seeing a 286 00:17:24.319 --> 00:17:28.759 switch in how people are engaged and who is engaged 287 00:17:28.799 --> 00:17:33.319 and how much. For a while, I was still holding 288 00:17:33.319 --> 00:17:36.839 onto the fear of like it's like I don't want 289 00:17:36.839 --> 00:17:43.960 to let myself think, but wouldn't I be happier to 290 00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:46.279 be true to myself in these ways, Like you know, 291 00:17:46.440 --> 00:17:49.559 I really would stop myself from thinking like, oh man, 292 00:17:49.640 --> 00:17:53.000 I really dream of starting testosterone or I really dream 293 00:17:53.039 --> 00:17:56.000 of getting top surgery. I was just like, but if 294 00:17:56.000 --> 00:17:59.000 I do that, I'm not going to be able to 295 00:17:59.200 --> 00:18:04.960 use like sexy femininity to get people to listen to 296 00:18:04.960 --> 00:18:05.519 my music. 297 00:18:05.920 --> 00:18:09.279 Got so fucked up. But it's such a thing. 298 00:18:09.519 --> 00:18:12.000 It's so it's so it's like you're trying to you're 299 00:18:12.200 --> 00:18:14.799 trying to break through, You're trying to like put make 300 00:18:14.839 --> 00:18:16.960 a living, pay your rent, like you do have to 301 00:18:17.000 --> 00:18:17.640 think about it. 302 00:18:17.640 --> 00:18:21.160 It sucks, yeah, and I have, I know, I've like 303 00:18:21.200 --> 00:18:26.160 I've literally like you know, played into the whole like oh, 304 00:18:26.319 --> 00:18:27.400 it's a thirst trap. 305 00:18:30.480 --> 00:18:33.559 Tour or it's it's impossible not to as again a 306 00:18:33.680 --> 00:18:36.799 normal person who has nothing to promote and is just 307 00:18:36.880 --> 00:18:39.480 existing as a normal person. If you are at all 308 00:18:39.559 --> 00:18:44.240 trying to be like any kind of artist, it's unavoidable. 309 00:18:44.400 --> 00:18:47.720 It's just like that's part of the vocabulary now. 310 00:18:47.839 --> 00:18:49.920 And it's like, I mean even the fact that like 311 00:18:50.000 --> 00:18:54.240 visual artists are like, yeah, I don't really get my 312 00:18:54.319 --> 00:18:57.319 work out there unless I post a selfie and then 313 00:18:57.680 --> 00:19:01.359 have pictures of my work. It's so I feel like 314 00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:03.799 I feel like you can't even use social media as 315 00:19:03.839 --> 00:19:07.279 like social media you can't like keep up with your 316 00:19:07.359 --> 00:19:10.960 friends unless you're posting content. Like it's not a matter 317 00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:15.440 of like posting updates. Now it's like you have to 318 00:19:15.640 --> 00:19:20.400 post content. It's a content creator to even keep up 319 00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:23.839 with your friends because your posts are now being ranked 320 00:19:23.839 --> 00:19:25.599 in an algorithm instead. 321 00:19:25.240 --> 00:19:28.599 Of it is we all should have Like the biggest 322 00:19:28.680 --> 00:19:31.599 red flag was when we started calling it content like 323 00:19:31.680 --> 00:19:34.160 that's the like that's when we all should have stopped 324 00:19:34.160 --> 00:19:36.599 and been like, hold on, this seems fucked up, Like 325 00:19:37.000 --> 00:19:42.640 why yeah, like but that ship has sailed sale. 326 00:19:42.720 --> 00:19:46.599 It's not a matter of making a post or making 327 00:19:46.640 --> 00:19:47.240 an update. 328 00:19:47.480 --> 00:19:51.200 But okay, wait, so let so getting going. Even back 329 00:19:51.319 --> 00:19:56.240 before all of this in terms of like like you 330 00:19:56.480 --> 00:19:59.119 like growing up, adolescents all of that, when did these 331 00:19:59.160 --> 00:20:01.200 things like are you you one of the Like I 332 00:20:01.240 --> 00:20:05.720 always knew something was going on, something was different even 333 00:20:05.759 --> 00:20:07.119 before I had the language for it. 334 00:20:07.240 --> 00:20:13.119 Or did you realize later, like what versus gender? Like yeah, 335 00:20:13.319 --> 00:20:14.839 just I. 336 00:20:14.839 --> 00:20:16.559 Think there was. I think the things that were at 337 00:20:16.599 --> 00:20:18.759 play were like I think when I was a kid kid, 338 00:20:21.759 --> 00:20:25.000 I feel like I wasn't raised in a very gendered way. 339 00:20:26.519 --> 00:20:27.119 That's awesome. 340 00:20:28.440 --> 00:20:31.519 I think I think I was really raised to be 341 00:20:31.640 --> 00:20:36.799 a kid, you know, like I just like I played 342 00:20:36.880 --> 00:20:45.240 with all kinds of different toys and uh like wore 343 00:20:45.319 --> 00:20:48.240 lots of different clothes. I remember I really wanted to 344 00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:50.119 cut my hair really short when I was like four, 345 00:20:51.200 --> 00:20:52.880 and then nobody knew I was a girl, so I 346 00:20:52.920 --> 00:20:56.920 was like wearing dresses. But also like I was four, 347 00:20:56.960 --> 00:20:58.720 so that like all kind of didn't mean anything to me. 348 00:21:00.480 --> 00:21:05.279 I remember being very like distraught that, uh, like boys 349 00:21:05.279 --> 00:21:07.720 didn't want to play with me as like a you know, 350 00:21:08.240 --> 00:21:11.279 like a young child because I liked boy stuff. 351 00:21:12.799 --> 00:21:13.160 Yeah. 352 00:21:13.240 --> 00:21:16.079 Yeah, yeah, I had like a really big Pokemon obsession 353 00:21:16.440 --> 00:21:19.160 and I really wanted to like play Pokemon or do 354 00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:22.000 anything about Pokemon. If I heard anybody talking about Pokemon, 355 00:21:22.039 --> 00:21:24.160 I would, you know, like the censors went off and 356 00:21:24.160 --> 00:21:27.279 I was like, that's my favorite thing. But I was 357 00:21:27.279 --> 00:21:29.440 always really upset that, like boys were like, you're this 358 00:21:29.519 --> 00:21:31.599 is for boys only. You're a girl, you can't hang 359 00:21:31.640 --> 00:21:34.440 out with us. And I was like that doesn't matter. 360 00:21:34.920 --> 00:21:38.279 I'm not like, what do you mean. You're boys and 361 00:21:38.319 --> 00:21:43.119 I'm a girl. We're all consumers of the Pokemon franchise. 362 00:21:43.200 --> 00:21:44.279 At the end of the day. 363 00:21:45.039 --> 00:21:47.759 Wow, you were the ideal customer for that. 364 00:21:48.039 --> 00:21:50.799 Like someone in Japan is like, yes, that's what we've 365 00:21:50.839 --> 00:21:51.359 been saying. 366 00:21:52.400 --> 00:21:55.920 Who cared about gender? We're all people who are going 367 00:21:55.920 --> 00:21:59.880 to ask our parents for money to buy toys. 368 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:05.319 Beautiful, you really understood it. Okay, Okay, so yeah this 369 00:22:05.480 --> 00:22:08.559 is relatable. I feel I feel a lot of yeah, 370 00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:11.440 similarities when I was growing up, like this days for me. 371 00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:15.839 But yeah, as you're getting into like middle school, high school, 372 00:22:15.880 --> 00:22:18.839 how did that start to like break down and or 373 00:22:19.279 --> 00:22:20.599 like don't awareness. 374 00:22:20.920 --> 00:22:23.400 I feel like by then I wasn't thinking about it. Well, 375 00:22:24.359 --> 00:22:30.880 in hindsight, I think my behaviors were like very interesting, 376 00:22:33.279 --> 00:22:35.640 like definitely like by middle and high school, I was 377 00:22:35.720 --> 00:22:39.960 like I saw myself as a girl. I was living 378 00:22:39.960 --> 00:22:44.079 as a girl. I wasn't really part of any communities 379 00:22:44.119 --> 00:22:49.759 that like had language that would have helped me see otherwise. 380 00:22:51.599 --> 00:22:55.799 But I'm I really wonder like what my relationship to 381 00:22:55.839 --> 00:22:58.720 gender would have been like if I had like the 382 00:22:58.839 --> 00:23:01.480 language and tools that I have now to just kind 383 00:23:01.480 --> 00:23:08.000 of see the other options. But the something that I 384 00:23:08.359 --> 00:23:12.440 find interesting when I look back at my uh past 385 00:23:12.519 --> 00:23:18.559 behaviors and interest interests and all that was like probably 386 00:23:18.599 --> 00:23:23.000 the biggest component of my identity as a middle schooler 387 00:23:23.720 --> 00:23:28.920 was being obsessed with the Jonas Brothers. That was ever, 388 00:23:29.079 --> 00:23:34.839 I like truly ate slept and breathed the Jonas Brothers. Okay, 389 00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:39.319 channel and song that was like that was it Because 390 00:23:39.319 --> 00:23:41.319 I started writing music and learning to play guitar and 391 00:23:41.359 --> 00:23:43.160 accompany myself when I was in middle school. 392 00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:45.559 Wow, okay, and. 393 00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:48.119 Like that was that was everything. I just like wanted 394 00:23:48.160 --> 00:23:52.880 to be like a songwriter and a performer and an 395 00:23:52.920 --> 00:23:55.960 actor and do something in entertainment. And I was in 396 00:23:56.119 --> 00:23:58.720 love with Joe Jonas, and I was convinced you will 397 00:23:58.799 --> 00:23:59.920 like the meant to be together. 398 00:24:00.279 --> 00:24:03.000 You would not know this to hear your music or 399 00:24:03.079 --> 00:24:05.079 to like see what you look like, you wouldn't be 400 00:24:05.200 --> 00:24:08.119 like I thought the Jonahs brothers were a foundation. 401 00:24:09.960 --> 00:24:12.440