Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, welcome back to coming out.
Speaker 2: But it has been a minute.
Speaker 1: Happy August. I assume no matter where in the world
Speaker 1: you live, you are sweating profusely.
Speaker 2: Queer Root.
Speaker 1: Shout out today is thematic because this movie has recently
Speaker 1: been added to Netflix. Was all over queer Twitter when
Speaker 1: it finally happened. Shout out to you if your queer
Speaker 1: root is either of the two girls as featured in
Speaker 1: the film The Incredibly True Adventure of Two Girls in Love.
Speaker 1: This movie was from nineteen ninety five in a true
Speaker 1: indie movie, back when indie movies were like legit indie
Speaker 1: it stars Okay, So the two girls are Nicole Ari Parker,
Speaker 1: who went on I think soul food was the big
Speaker 1: thing that she did. And then the other girl is
Speaker 1: named Laurel Holloman. Perhaps you are familiar with her work
Speaker 1: on the Elbor and the L Word Generation Cure. Yes, Tina,
Speaker 1: this was She's a very They're both very young in
Speaker 1: this movie. This is super formative movie for a lot
Speaker 1: of people. Is it an amazing movie? I wouldn't go
Speaker 1: that far, but it is a very important movie to
Speaker 1: queer culture, one of the first ninety five and now
Speaker 1: you can watch it on Netflix, which is very cool.
Speaker 2: Shout out to you if you.
Speaker 1: Are around my age and this movie was perhaps formative
Speaker 1: for you, y'all. My guest today is an artist known
Speaker 1: as Boy Junior.
Speaker 2: Hello.
Speaker 1: I'm so excited to have you here.
Speaker 3: Welcome, Hello, Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm gonna okay.
Speaker 1: So basically, I don't even want to try to describe
Speaker 1: your genre, because I am sure there are words that
Speaker 1: are much hipper and cooler then I will come up.
Speaker 1: So I'll leave that to you. But what I will
Speaker 1: say is that you have an album that is going
Speaker 1: to be coming out. The probable date is October twenty third.
Speaker 1: The album title is phenomenal. It is called I Love
Speaker 1: Getting Dumped and there are some singles out from it
Speaker 1: already that you can listen to. Check out these titles.
Speaker 1: The titles are I Hope you feel terrible, bullying myself
Speaker 1: and by the time this episode is released, Still be
Speaker 1: Friends will likely be out too, So I think we're
Speaker 1: sensing a theme for this album. The definitely this is
Speaker 1: right up my alley. This is the kind of music
Speaker 1: that I am. Yeah, this is what I use music
Speaker 1: for personally. Is this kind of versis yeah, and I love,
Speaker 1: I love I've heard bullying myself, and I hope you
Speaker 1: feel terrible and love both of those.
Speaker 2: But yeah, do you want to We'll get to.
Speaker 1: How you identify in a moment, but musically, do you
Speaker 1: want to share, like what you feel your how you
Speaker 1: would describe your genre or this particular album, or what
Speaker 1: words you like to use to describe your work.
Speaker 3: Well, I honestly like to make it a bit of
Speaker 3: a running joke that I don't know how to describe it.
Speaker 3: And the joke is not a joke because it's true,
Speaker 3: because it's one always very hard to describe your own
Speaker 3: music to somebody who's never heard it and probably has
Speaker 3: very different frames of reference to different genres than than yourself.
Speaker 3: But also because I feel like I fuse a lot
Speaker 3: of influences into what I'm making. So although it just
Speaker 3: falls under the category of like indie alternative and like pop.
Speaker 1: And balk, yeah, it's very danceable too, though I feel like.
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, what did I recently call it? Like high energy,
Speaker 3: weirdo sound design pop?
Speaker 2: Oh, that's I would go with that one. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: like that.
Speaker 3: It's hard to put into like one or two words,
Speaker 3: but five descript I think is at least at least
Speaker 3: makes me feel like I'm starting to represent myself in
Speaker 3: words decently.
Speaker 2: That's awesome.
Speaker 1: And is this album in particular?
Speaker 2: I love getting dumped?
Speaker 1: Did this come out of one particular dumping? A series
Speaker 1: of dumpings that hit a reservoir point where you were, like,
Speaker 1: I got to write a now album, like what's the backs?
Speaker 3: It was a series? So the concept is it all?
Speaker 3: It's all music from between like twenty twenty and twenty
Speaker 3: twenty four that I wrote about different relationships and like
Speaker 3: after different relationships and situationships, and yeah, it was kind
Speaker 3: of like a reservoir. I just realized I had a
Speaker 3: lot of music about different kinds of breakups that are
Speaker 3: all like stylistically different and different in my abilities and
Speaker 3: tastes as a writer and producer. So I wanted to
Speaker 3: just kind of like get that era out there and
Speaker 3: over with and behind me.
Speaker 2: Yes, okay, cure album album?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh god, I love that. I do.
Speaker 1: On Spotify, I have something I think it's what did
Speaker 1: I call it? It might just be called like, oh no,
Speaker 1: it's called breaking up is hard to do. That's in
Speaker 1: what I titled it.
Speaker 2: But it is my.
Speaker 1: Epic breakup playlist. Yeah, I think it's like three and
Speaker 1: a half hours at this point. Like every once in
Speaker 1: a while I'll add something to it. But yeah, it's
Speaker 1: stemmed from one particular shitty breakup and then just became
Speaker 1: representative of all breakups of years past, and it's just
Speaker 1: like getting longer and longer and longer. So I'm very
Speaker 1: excited about the theme and title of this album.
Speaker 3: Yes, very excited to continue your playlist.
Speaker 1: That's so true. I'll be able to scatter you throughout it.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, once the album drops. So yeah, so I
Speaker 1: teased it a little bit, but yeah, for the folks
Speaker 1: at home, how do you identify in terms of yeah,
Speaker 1: any in all words.
Speaker 3: That you like, Yeah, I am non binary. I'm a
Speaker 3: non binary unknowable entity. Ooh who lives in your walls?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, okay.
Speaker 1: I was like, come on, I'm out with that is
Speaker 1: a very that's that's a first like I've been doing.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm at almost three hundred episodes, but that
Speaker 1: is a completely unique identifier.
Speaker 2: So I really appreciate that.
Speaker 1: Thank you.
Speaker 3: Thank God. I'm very I'm very serious about I'm very
Speaker 3: serious about trying to become a category we don't yet have,
Speaker 3: become a thing in a category we don't yet have,
Speaker 3: Hence the high energy weirdo sound design pomp.
Speaker 1: I love it, God damn. Yeah, No, is definitely I
Speaker 1: love all of your descriptors are artistic.
Speaker 3: I guess that's always that's kind of just what it
Speaker 3: comes down to. No, but I guess I all in seriousness,
Speaker 3: I am non binary slash, I guess gender queer and
Speaker 3: just queer in general.
Speaker 2: Beautiful.
Speaker 1: Okay, So I know nothing about your personal story. I've
Speaker 1: been I always try not to, like before I do
Speaker 1: these episodes, I'll read like a little bit of I'll
Speaker 1: listen to music, I'll read like artistic backgrounds.
Speaker 2: But I'm very I try very hard to avoid.
Speaker 1: Any like spoilers in terms of people's lives so that
Speaker 1: I can be hearing it fresh. So yeah, I'm so
Speaker 1: curious to hear your whole your coming out what you
Speaker 1: consider your coming out story. Yeah, it sounds like there
Speaker 1: are probably several coming out.
Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, that's that's kind of more accurate.
Speaker 2: I definitely for sure.
Speaker 3: I I feel like I have never really like come
Speaker 3: out formally, like I feel like for my generation, for
Speaker 3: any of our generations who grew up alongside the Internet
Speaker 3: becoming a big, big constant in our lives. I think
Speaker 3: for anybody of these generations, coming out often equates to
Speaker 3: making an update on Facebook or Instagram or Twitter, and
Speaker 3: I never I never did that. The only thing like
Speaker 3: I feel like, in terms of like a public coming out,
Speaker 3: I put out a song last year that's like about
Speaker 3: gender and about feeling like I, you know, I'm neither
Speaker 3: here nor there, and I'm just like an artistic expression
Speaker 3: and for at to share the song, I had made
Speaker 3: some posts that were like, I've never really come out before,
Speaker 3: but this song is kind of the closest thing to it,
Speaker 3: So I guess here I'm coming out. But it's definitely
Speaker 3: felt like the kind of thing that it's like you
Speaker 3: either know already or you don't and you don't need Yes.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, that's and so speaking of that, you're did
Speaker 1: you blow up on TikTok first or you just like,
Speaker 1: what what was your route for in terms of your following,
Speaker 1: because you have like a dedicated following.
Speaker 3: Oh thank you. I'm always very scared that that it's
Speaker 3: not real and if the apps decide they don't want
Speaker 3: to show my stuff anymore, it'll all go away.
Speaker 1: Oh god, we're all yeah, trying to figure the algorithms
Speaker 1: change hourly. So I think that, like I think just
Speaker 1: once you have people who like your work, they will
Speaker 1: seek you out, regardless of how the.
Speaker 2: Really tries to like bear it.
Speaker 3: I really really hope. So yeah, for the sake of
Speaker 3: everybody in the arts, I really exactly what you just said. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I think the first experiences I had with videos kind
Speaker 3: of like breaching containment. No, breaching containment is when is
Speaker 3: when it goes beyond being seen by the intended audience.
Speaker 3: I would say it's just the first time that I
Speaker 3: had stuff that like reached more people than I was
Speaker 3: used to. And when I've had stuff that's gone viral,
Speaker 3: the first experiences have been on TikTok in like twenty nineteen. Yeah,
Speaker 3: So that's funny.
Speaker 2: Really for that platform. That's like, yeah, yeah, it was back.
Speaker 3: It was back when you could like really put yourself
Speaker 3: out there as an artist. I'm like, yeah, really it was,
Speaker 3: it was back when things were simpler.
Speaker 2: Well, that's what I'm wondering.
Speaker 1: It's like, did you find when you did sort of
Speaker 1: breach containment, which I love because it sounds very like
Speaker 1: zombie movie, but like, were you like, oh, this is
Speaker 1: like it's mostly like queer people and I feel safe
Speaker 1: and good about them finding it, or were you You're like, oh, oh,
Speaker 1: like this could be anybody, Like how is the reaction
Speaker 1: gonna be?
Speaker 2: Just like is that yeah? As an artist? Is that yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Okay, yes and no. And I actually think that
Speaker 3: question kind of touches on like another interesting like thing
Speaker 3: that's been running on the side, which is that I
Speaker 3: feel like I had multiple coming outs because I like
Speaker 3: started like being more of myself and like I feel
Speaker 3: like I had like multiple like gender crises, where like
Speaker 3: I had like the first one where I was like, oh, okay,
Speaker 3: I understand who I am and this is the what
Speaker 3: I'm gonna roll with. And then stuff changed, not even
Speaker 3: like I don't know, life circumstances changed and I was
Speaker 3: going through a transition of being in school to not
Speaker 3: being in school anymore, and I just like put it
Speaker 3: on the back burner and I was.
Speaker 2: Like, I don't know.
Speaker 3: I was kind of trying to I was trying to
Speaker 3: figure out where I stood with with gender and what
Speaker 3: kind of pronouns I wanted to use. And I was
Speaker 3: very interested in top surgery and starting tea and I was,
Speaker 3: but I was like, Nope, not the time yet. I
Speaker 3: just not yet. And then I feel like I went
Speaker 3: in the opposite direction and I was like, oh, I'm
Speaker 3: out in the real world. And I think I just
Speaker 3: had a lot of fear about figuring out what I
Speaker 3: was just how I was going to like make it
Speaker 3: and what I was going to do, and I think
Speaker 3: I felt at that time a lot of that hinged
Speaker 3: on being as desirable as possible to as large a
Speaker 3: pool of people as possible. So I went like, really,
Speaker 3: femme again, yeah, and not that really wasn't enjoying myself
Speaker 3: then too, Like I think I'm like anybody. I'm a
Speaker 3: multifaceted person and personally I have like a million different
Speaker 3: senses of style, and there's just such a.
Speaker 1: Difference I feel like to having that be like organ
Speaker 1: like that fluidity be organic, versus thinking like, well, when
Speaker 1: am I releasing this, and like what kind of like
Speaker 1: when you when you're trying to break through as an artist,
Speaker 1: you have to think about that shit.
Speaker 2: And it's like it's so hard.
Speaker 1: To think about gender and presentation just as a normal
Speaker 1: person who's not visually on display, but as an artist
Speaker 1: it's like, fuck, now I gotta like do this kind
Speaker 1: of publicly. Yeah, it makes you long for the days
Speaker 1: of radio. I'm like, no one knew what anyone looks well,
Speaker 1: just like whatever.
Speaker 2: I like, how this sounds like so different now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I definitely just put gender on the back burner. Yeah,
Speaker 3: And that's been an interesting thing the way that's correlated
Speaker 3: to my increasingly online experience because once I was like,
Speaker 3: you know, okay, I'm gonna make my whole thing, like
Speaker 3: I'm going to play live shows and try to go
Speaker 3: on tour, and I hadn't really figured out, you know,
Speaker 3: content yet. I was very active on social media, but
Speaker 3: it was before reels existed, and it was before TikTok
Speaker 3: was as popular. So I was doing a lot of
Speaker 3: live shows locally and then trying to play out of
Speaker 3: town sometimes, and just the vibe I was going for
Speaker 3: was very different. It was like when I first started
Speaker 3: doing shows before that and I was like, Okay, I
Speaker 3: have to pick an artist name and I wanted to
Speaker 3: be Boyd Junior. That was very very in tandem with
Speaker 3: me being like I'm trying I'm exploring gender, like let's
Speaker 3: do this. I was like going for like very like
Speaker 3: visibly queer vibes, ah, and like cut my hair short
Speaker 3: for the first time and was going for very like
Speaker 3: pretty boy vibes, and then I was like, pault, I'm
Speaker 3: not going to do that for a little bit. I'm
Speaker 3: gonna go like hyper fem Saint Vincent's album Mass Seduction
Speaker 3: had just come out, and I was like, I want
Speaker 3: to be that.
Speaker 2: Okay, I want my hair.
Speaker 3: Long again, and I want to be like super sexy, weird,
Speaker 3: and like that's still like a piece of me as
Speaker 3: a person. But I think that was also coming from
Speaker 3: a place of me seeking memorability, and I think it
Speaker 3: was coming from a place of like fear and a
Speaker 3: little bit of desperation, not consciously, definitely subconsciously, just the
Speaker 3: way you go and go through the world and see
Speaker 3: that when when people are attracted to somebody, even subconsciously,
Speaker 3: they just treat them better. So that's you know, that's
Speaker 3: what pretty privilege is and all all that stuff. So
Speaker 3: it's been interesting in tandem to now be in another
Speaker 3: phase of my life where I am feeling far truer
Speaker 3: to myself than I have felt in the past, and
Speaker 3: I feel like I am making decisions based on comfort
Speaker 3: instead of like fear or desperation or anything else, or
Speaker 3: like desire to feel desirable, And I think, yeah, part
Speaker 3: of that's just like growing up and like just getting
Speaker 3: older and more comfortable with yourself. But I think also
Speaker 3: just accepting how I want to be, just what my
Speaker 3: non conforming identity really entails. And so it's been especially
Speaker 3: interesting within the last year where I have made that
Speaker 3: more visibly evident and audibly evident and definitely seeing a
Speaker 3: switch in how people are engaged and who is engaged
Speaker 3: and how much. For a while, I was still holding
Speaker 3: onto the fear of like it's like I don't want
Speaker 3: to let myself think, but wouldn't I be happier to
Speaker 3: be true to myself in these ways, Like you know,
Speaker 3: I really would stop myself from thinking like, oh man,
Speaker 3: I really dream of starting testosterone or I really dream
Speaker 3: of getting top surgery. I was just like, but if
Speaker 3: I do that, I'm not going to be able to
Speaker 3: use like sexy femininity to get people to listen to
Speaker 3: my music.
Speaker 2: Got so fucked up. But it's such a thing.
Speaker 1: It's so it's so it's like you're trying to you're
Speaker 1: trying to break through, You're trying to like put make
Speaker 1: a living, pay your rent, like you do have to
Speaker 1: think about it.
Speaker 3: It sucks, yeah, and I have, I know, I've like
Speaker 3: I've literally like you know, played into the whole like oh,
Speaker 3: it's a thirst trap.
Speaker 1: Tour or it's it's impossible not to as again a
Speaker 1: normal person who has nothing to promote and is just
Speaker 1: existing as a normal person. If you are at all
Speaker 1: trying to be like any kind of artist, it's unavoidable.
Speaker 1: It's just like that's part of the vocabulary now.
Speaker 3: And it's like, I mean even the fact that like
Speaker 3: visual artists are like, yeah, I don't really get my
Speaker 3: work out there unless I post a selfie and then
Speaker 3: have pictures of my work. It's so I feel like
Speaker 3: I feel like you can't even use social media as
Speaker 3: like social media you can't like keep up with your
Speaker 3: friends unless you're posting content. Like it's not a matter
Speaker 3: of like posting updates. Now it's like you have to
Speaker 3: post content. It's a content creator to even keep up
Speaker 3: with your friends because your posts are now being ranked
Speaker 3: in an algorithm instead.
Speaker 1: Of it is we all should have Like the biggest
Speaker 1: red flag was when we started calling it content like
Speaker 1: that's the like that's when we all should have stopped
Speaker 1: and been like, hold on, this seems fucked up, Like
Speaker 1: why yeah, like but that ship has sailed sale.
Speaker 3: It's not a matter of making a post or making
Speaker 3: an update.
Speaker 1: But okay, wait, so let so getting going. Even back
Speaker 1: before all of this in terms of like like you
Speaker 1: like growing up, adolescents all of that, when did these
Speaker 1: things like are you you one of the Like I
Speaker 1: always knew something was going on, something was different even
Speaker 1: before I had the language for it.
Speaker 2: Or did you realize later, like what versus gender? Like yeah,
Speaker 2: just I.
Speaker 3: Think there was. I think the things that were at
Speaker 3: play were like I think when I was a kid kid,
Speaker 3: I feel like I wasn't raised in a very gendered way.
Speaker 2: That's awesome.
Speaker 3: I think I think I was really raised to be
Speaker 3: a kid, you know, like I just like I played
Speaker 3: with all kinds of different toys and uh like wore
Speaker 3: lots of different clothes. I remember I really wanted to
Speaker 3: cut my hair really short when I was like four,
Speaker 3: and then nobody knew I was a girl, so I
Speaker 3: was like wearing dresses. But also like I was four,
Speaker 3: so that like all kind of didn't mean anything to me.
Speaker 3: I remember being very like distraught that, uh, like boys
Speaker 3: didn't want to play with me as like a you know,
Speaker 3: like a young child because I liked boy stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I had like a really big Pokemon obsession
Speaker 3: and I really wanted to like play Pokemon or do
Speaker 3: anything about Pokemon. If I heard anybody talking about Pokemon,
Speaker 3: I would, you know, like the censors went off and
Speaker 3: I was like, that's my favorite thing. But I was
Speaker 3: always really upset that, like boys were like, you're this
Speaker 3: is for boys only. You're a girl, you can't hang
Speaker 3: out with us. And I was like that doesn't matter.
Speaker 3: I'm not like, what do you mean. You're boys and
Speaker 3: I'm a girl. We're all consumers of the Pokemon franchise.
Speaker 3: At the end of the day.
Speaker 2: Wow, you were the ideal customer for that.
Speaker 1: Like someone in Japan is like, yes, that's what we've
Speaker 1: been saying.
Speaker 3: Who cared about gender? We're all people who are going
Speaker 3: to ask our parents for money to buy toys.
Speaker 1: Beautiful, you really understood it. Okay, Okay, so yeah this
Speaker 1: is relatable. I feel I feel a lot of yeah,
Speaker 1: similarities when I was growing up, like this days for me.
Speaker 1: But yeah, as you're getting into like middle school, high school,
Speaker 1: how did that start to like break down and or
Speaker 1: like don't awareness.
Speaker 3: I feel like by then I wasn't thinking about it. Well,
Speaker 3: in hindsight, I think my behaviors were like very interesting,
Speaker 3: like definitely like by middle and high school, I was
Speaker 3: like I saw myself as a girl. I was living
Speaker 3: as a girl. I wasn't really part of any communities
Speaker 3: that like had language that would have helped me see otherwise.
Speaker 3: But I'm I really wonder like what my relationship to
Speaker 3: gender would have been like if I had like the
Speaker 3: language and tools that I have now to just kind
Speaker 3: of see the other options. But the something that I
Speaker 3: find interesting when I look back at my uh past
Speaker 3: behaviors and interest interests and all that was like probably
Speaker 3: the biggest component of my identity as a middle schooler
Speaker 3: was being obsessed with the Jonas Brothers. That was ever,
Speaker 3: I like truly ate slept and breathed the Jonas Brothers. Okay,
Speaker 3: channel and song that was like that was it Because
Speaker 3: I started writing music and learning to play guitar and
Speaker 3: accompany myself when I was in middle school.
Speaker 2: Wow, okay, and.
Speaker 3: Like that was that was everything. I just like wanted
Speaker 3: to be like a songwriter and a performer and an
Speaker 3: actor and do something in entertainment. And I was in
Speaker 3: love with Joe Jonas, and I was convinced you will
Speaker 3: like the meant to be together.
Speaker 1: You would not know this to hear your music or
Speaker 1: to like see what you look like, you wouldn't be
Speaker 1: like I thought the Jonahs brothers were a foundation.
Speaker 3: I just I just told this, like I was just
Speaker 3: talking about basically this exact same thing to somebody that
Speaker 3: I'm seeing, and they were like, you didn't even have
Speaker 3: to I've never known this about you. You didn't even
Speaker 3: have to tell me you were obsessed with the Jonas brothers.
Speaker 3: But I just knew.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, they really were? They a fellow?
Speaker 1: Is it am I on the outside because I never
Speaker 1: like intersected with the Jonahs brothers, like because I'm doing
Speaker 1: it for that. Maybe it's like people you can recognize it.
Speaker 1: It's like you have a nod and you're like.
Speaker 3: I, honestly, I don't know because I don't I don't
Speaker 3: know how I come off. I feel like I could
Speaker 3: totally see, like from your perspective, It's like, I don't know,
Speaker 3: you don't strike me as somebody who was like like
Speaker 3: like super in the grasps of an incredibly like mainstream
Speaker 3: and purity React artists. But that's me into that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, to me, they're like the clean cut Purity Rings boys.
Speaker 1: So that's like totally my perception of them. They've definitely
Speaker 1: deviated from that, but that is forever to me, They're
Speaker 1: they're the Purity Rings boys.
Speaker 2: They're like not.
Speaker 3: Having sex to me, no, hotly, Well, I think I
Speaker 3: like that when I was that age, I think that's
Speaker 3: to me.
Speaker 2: That's so true.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like I didn't have any kind of like religious upbringing,
Speaker 3: but the but the values of like like sex doesn't
Speaker 3: need to be like guiding principle in your life right
Speaker 3: now because I was like twelve, thirteen, fourteen years old,
Speaker 3: and I think so now looking back, I think my
Speaker 3: like obsession with this these artists was like my uh
Speaker 3: like a safe way for me to explore these things
Speaker 3: like crushes and attraction and like desire and also like
Speaker 3: who and what I wanted to be because I also
Speaker 3: definitely experienced, you know, just like the feeling of like
Speaker 3: when I liked something or someone I wanted to become
Speaker 3: that I like completely revolved my style around what the
Speaker 3: Jonahs brothers wore. Like I wanted to dress just like
Speaker 3: them and be like that and write that kind of music.
Speaker 3: But I also like fell asleep every night to like
Speaker 3: a new fantasy of how I like meet Joe Jonas
Speaker 3: and we fall in love. Still hasn't happened yet. That's
Speaker 3: I also feel like, I'm like, that's my I've there's
Speaker 3: still time I want to make. I want to make
Speaker 3: a post about that. I know. I know when that
Speaker 3: when I haven't, I made a bunch of posts. I
Speaker 3: was like, GUIDs, I think that was finally my time. Okay.
Speaker 2: I always did think he was the cutest one. So
Speaker 2: for whatever whatever.
Speaker 1: It's worse, I was also a Joe Jonas.
Speaker 2: Yeah he was.
Speaker 3: I feel like there's some joke in there about just
Speaker 3: like if Joe was your favorite Jonas brother, how's your
Speaker 3: queer awakening going.
Speaker 1: I think there's some truth to that. He's he's the
Speaker 1: pretty one. He's the pretty one, because yeah, I think
Speaker 1: there's some truth to that for sure.
Speaker 3: Being having like an extreme celebrity crush during my like
Speaker 3: foundational years definitely influenced my type for like the rest
Speaker 3: of you know, even.
Speaker 2: I think that's for all.
Speaker 3: I so yep ye, silly, silly goofy person who likes
Speaker 3: art or music, who has thick eyebrows. That is the
Speaker 3: only criteria for how I will be interested in somebody.
Speaker 2: I love that.
Speaker 3: Mostly. There's some stuff has deviated, but like that's my
Speaker 3: type stuff.
Speaker 2: I love that. Oh my god.
Speaker 1: So as you got older, when did you start to
Speaker 1: actually like like not just have crushes, but like maybe
Speaker 1: pursue people or get involved with people. And like, at
Speaker 1: what point was it like, oh, Okay, this is who
Speaker 1: I am, and I'm either accepting it or I'm repressing
Speaker 1: it as much as humanly possible or something.
Speaker 3: I definitely definitely by the time I was in high school.
Speaker 3: Somewhere in high school, I feel like I never I
Speaker 3: never came out, and I never even really had like
Speaker 3: a coming out to myself. It was just like somehow,
Speaker 3: just I guess. As I was growing up and experiencing
Speaker 3: attraction to anybody, I was like, well, girls are definitely
Speaker 3: in there. I definitely don't just like boys. I think
Speaker 3: there's definitely probably a sort of just like a degree
Speaker 3: of pulsory heterosexuality, and also just not a degree of that,
Speaker 3: a degree of just like attraction feeling different to different people,
Speaker 3: and probably just a lack of like knowing how to
Speaker 3: talk to girls.
Speaker 2: I guess.
Speaker 3: That I was just like I like, I was like, well,
Speaker 3: I don't know if I have like crushes on girls,
Speaker 3: Like I don't know if i'd want to date a girl,
Speaker 3: but I'm definitely attracted to girls. And even that, in hindsight,
Speaker 3: I'm like, no, there's definitely some people that I had
Speaker 3: crushes on. I just really didn't know what that felt
Speaker 3: like versus the way I would be like obsessed over
Speaker 3: a boy or like, you know, like in the past,
Speaker 3: like be obsessed over one very unattainable boy yea. In
Speaker 3: more much more recently, I've thought about how, like, I
Speaker 3: think there's probably more to uncover with the sense of
Speaker 3: anxiety I've had around attraction or pursuing people, and probably
Speaker 3: a desire to be like these people and the best
Speaker 3: I could do was be close to them. That I
Speaker 3: feel like, you know, I'm only a year on low
Speaker 3: DOS testosterone and I just got top surgery in May,
Speaker 3: and I'm like, I am really new to genuinely feeling
Speaker 3: like myself wow. And the ease I have felt in
Speaker 3: this last year about so many aspects of myself and
Speaker 3: the way I'm perceived, and especially that in relationships. It's
Speaker 3: just has just been astounding that I think there's probably
Speaker 3: still a lot for me to uncover about my previous
Speaker 3: relationship with relationships.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: That's so recent. I didn't wow like May.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we're recording this in July, Like that is
Speaker 1: really recent.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so interesting.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean, let's talk relationships, because I feel
Speaker 1: like the album doesn't exist without having.
Speaker 2: A rich history the relationship.
Speaker 1: How soon, Because like, I'm someone who didn't start I
Speaker 1: had like a boyfriend in high school for like a
Speaker 1: couple of weeks or something, but then like nothing in
Speaker 1: college and then like I didn't start dating to like
Speaker 1: senior year of college. So I'm a late bloomer in
Speaker 1: terms of relationships nice and have continued to not have many.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, ya, thank you.
Speaker 1: I always think of it as like, let's hide this
Speaker 1: fat because it red flags for people. But when are
Speaker 1: you were you like an early appreciator of relationships?
Speaker 2: Did you get in them early? Like what did you do?
Speaker 2: Serial monogamy? Like what happened was?
Speaker 3: It's Oh my god, it's so funny we're talking about
Speaker 3: this because I just had it. I haven't thought about
Speaker 3: this in a while, but I just had to dream
Speaker 3: about my first boyfriend, like last life that mean something. Well,
Speaker 3: I just talked about it. I just talked about him,
Speaker 3: and so I just talked about like my relationship history
Speaker 3: like a couple of days ago. So I guess, well,
Speaker 3: hey man, how's it going? You know what? Because I
Speaker 3: was talking to I was talking to somebody about like,
Speaker 3: I was like, well, you know, I'm not in touch
Speaker 3: with my first ever boyfriend anymore. I don't know. I
Speaker 3: don't know if if he still goes by the same
Speaker 3: name or is still a boy or interesting. You know,
Speaker 3: I don't know what his relationships are like now either,
Speaker 3: because I feel like I have a bit of a
Speaker 3: record of of like I've had a couple relationships that
Speaker 3: where it's like whoa we neither of us were out
Speaker 3: back then. Something about that relationship definitely worked because we're
Speaker 3: both queer.
Speaker 2: That's so cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, okay, I've heard that a lot on
Speaker 1: this podcast, people who find each other through some sort
Speaker 1: of energy even though neither of them are out and
Speaker 1: they don't have the language for it, and nine years
Speaker 1: later like ah.
Speaker 3: You doo, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I love that, but yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean like my first relationship. I I went from
Speaker 3: being obsessed with the Jonas brothers and being convinced I
Speaker 3: was like, I'm never going to date. I'm going to
Speaker 3: be in love with this famous man forever. Probably because
Speaker 3: I was a teenager.
Speaker 2: Yeah that feels real, get that.
Speaker 3: And I didn't want to date. I was, you know,
Speaker 3: I didn't. I didn't like anybody. I was like, boys
Speaker 3: are immature. Everybody is immature. I don't you know. I
Speaker 3: would never settle just because I should date now because
Speaker 3: other people date or kiss. I was like, I don't
Speaker 3: want to have my first kiss and this it's really
Speaker 3: really special. So I went from that to being friends
Speaker 3: with this guy that I met and who I definitely
Speaker 3: like liked, but I didn't want to like I didn't
Speaker 3: want because I didn't want to date. I just like
Speaker 3: I was like, I'm not I'm not the.
Speaker 1: Person who date, okay, okay, But eventually eventually we did date.
Speaker 3: We dated for like a year or something.
Speaker 1: I think that's so long and like high school or school,
Speaker 1: yeah time, that's like, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: That's impressive. Honestly, it was.
Speaker 3: It was like felt serious experience because he went to
Speaker 3: college and I was still in high school, and I
Speaker 3: was like, I was just changing a lot and growing up,
Speaker 3: and I was like, I just wasn't interested in being
Speaker 3: in a relationship anymore.
Speaker 1: During that time, though, did were you still conscious of
Speaker 1: being of your attractions being beyond just like I mean,
Speaker 1: we didn't even say I guess yeah, yeah, No.
Speaker 3: I definitely think at that point, like I was aware
Speaker 3: of people being bisexual, and I think I had known that.
Speaker 3: I'm like, that's that sounds accurate to me. I think
Speaker 3: that probably applies. I feel like I remember at some
Speaker 3: point in high school, probably a couple of years later,
Speaker 3: like really like having kind of like the conversation with
Speaker 3: myself being like, oh, I am definitely attracted to women,
Speaker 3: you know, being like, well, that's right, you know, I
Speaker 3: definitely am attracted to women. Does that mean I have
Speaker 3: to come out? I guess I guess probably not. Like,
Speaker 3: I don't think that's really relevant unless it has to
Speaker 3: be relevant. I'm I'm not gonna I don't need to
Speaker 3: make like a Facebook post about that, right.
Speaker 1: I don't think that matters such a measured so you
Speaker 1: didn't like freak out realize that that's beautiful.
Speaker 3: I feel like that.
Speaker 2: I love that. I just like freak the fuck out,
Speaker 2: But I love that you were like, do I have
Speaker 2: to make a post.
Speaker 1: I'm not the guy ow anyone to post like you're
Speaker 1: just having a very adult conversation with yourself.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And meanwhile, I think my sibling was the first
Speaker 3: to like date somebody of the same gender. And even
Speaker 3: that wasn't like it wasn't we never had like conversations
Speaker 3: with my parents.
Speaker 2: She's like, awesome.
Speaker 3: Yeah, just kind of was like a matter of fact.
Speaker 2: Really older sibling, younger sibling younger. Oh, interesting, they were first.
Speaker 3: They were the first person I knew who was like
Speaker 3: you know, I who I knew of who had brought
Speaker 3: up the concept of being non binary. Wow, that's really cool.
Speaker 3: Sound out to carry for real?
Speaker 2: Look at that younger trailboyzer. We love it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and your parents were just like on board and
Speaker 1: cool and there was never any conflicts surrounding like that.
Speaker 3: No, never, it's been That's fantastic. Yeah, I.
Speaker 2: God, that's awesome.
Speaker 3: I have a lot of gratitude for the family that
Speaker 3: I that I'm in. I'm glad we never had to
Speaker 3: I don't know, have big coming outs. Uh, I mean
Speaker 3: even with I think it was definitely a little for
Speaker 3: me at least, felt a little silly with gender stuff.
Speaker 3: I was like, it probably would be easier for people
Speaker 3: if I just said something about this up front. But
Speaker 3: it was just sort of like at some point I
Speaker 3: changed my pronouns on my sof I think probably on
Speaker 3: on the like I have two instagrams, I have a
Speaker 3: personal one and they have the BOYD Junior one, and
Speaker 3: probably on the BOYD Junior one, I changed the pronouns
Speaker 3: to they them first. It was I was just using
Speaker 3: chi they for a little while, and there wasn't like
Speaker 3: a solid date that I was like, I'm gonna tell people.
Speaker 3: It was just kind of like it was like, oh, well,
Speaker 3: I'm non binary. That's just like a thing about me,
Speaker 3: like that might come up in my music at some point,
Speaker 3: or like that might come up and just like facts
Speaker 3: about me. But I and but it wasn't really until
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, I'm putting out a song about
Speaker 3: gender identity that I was like, I guess I'm coming out.
Speaker 3: When you know, people's responses to it was really nice,
Speaker 3: but it's very it's funny, like feeling like oh no, no, no,
Speaker 3: you don't need to like you don't even like congratulate
Speaker 3: me or anything, like, I'm really it's been like this
Speaker 3: for a long time. Like it's like it's like you
Speaker 3: either know or you don't. Like it's just sort of
Speaker 3: like I've been out. But yeah, so not because it
Speaker 3: was like I was out. It was different when I
Speaker 3: was in college and I was in a very like
Speaker 3: liberal arts college, and then very different when I was
Speaker 3: like just a person in the working world and didn't
Speaker 3: want to bring certain kinds of attention to myself and
Speaker 3: just wanted to keep it simple. But then it was
Speaker 3: to a point where it's like, Okay, yeah, you can
Speaker 3: only keep yourself molded a certain way to keep other
Speaker 3: people comfortable for so long before you're just like stuffling
Speaker 3: your existence.
Speaker 2: It's not sustainable.
Speaker 1: Do you get so you get those kinds of like
Speaker 1: the nice congratulatory covients, Do you get the other kinds
Speaker 1: of messages where people are like, like you made me
Speaker 1: realize this, or like fans who have been with you
Speaker 1: since the beginning who have like seen these changes and
Speaker 1: maybe it like made them realize things.
Speaker 2: But like you, like.
Speaker 3: I think so, and you know what, I'm really glad.
Speaker 3: I'm glad you asked that because I was. I was.
Speaker 3: I thought you were about to ask, like, do I
Speaker 3: get the other side, which is like people being haters?
Speaker 3: And I was about to go on a rant about
Speaker 3: how like, oh, yeah, I've been encountering some of the
Speaker 3: worst people on earth.
Speaker 1: You are more than welcome to. But I never want
Speaker 1: to make anyone talk about those people because.
Speaker 3: I'm about it. Oh my god, to make music and complain.
Speaker 3: But I actually I'm so glad that you asked that,
Speaker 3: because I'm like, you know, I have not I don't
Speaker 3: put enough like energy and gratitude and attention into the
Speaker 3: fact that, like people have said some incredibly meaningful things
Speaker 3: to me. And I think I feel in commfortable to
Speaker 3: really soak that in because it's like.
Speaker 1: To be truly it's like holy shit, that's like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, fathom like really truly having done something important for
Speaker 3: other people. I feel like I'm so used to being
Speaker 3: in the realm of just like I'm just the little
Speaker 3: digital gesture. I'm here for fun times, but I'm probably
Speaker 3: forgettable and I have to constantly scratch at the algorithm
Speaker 3: to try and like make some meaningful something out of
Speaker 3: what I'm doing. It's hard to it. It's really hard
Speaker 3: to really truly let it sink in, maybe because it
Speaker 3: feels conceited to be. Like, people have told me that
Speaker 3: things that I have made have made them feel more
Speaker 3: comfortable with themselves and question their own identity and start
Speaker 3: to come out to themselves a little bit, or that
Speaker 3: it's been a good source of way to understand other
Speaker 3: people or to try to get other people to unders
Speaker 3: stand other identities. And people have just said that like
Speaker 3: just what I am doing and putting myself out there
Speaker 3: is like good and important representation to them. Yeah, and
Speaker 3: I probably should like get up every day and say
Speaker 3: that or like just like screenshot like nice things people
Speaker 3: have said to me like that and put it on
Speaker 3: my wall and be like this is also in the world.
Speaker 3: By the way, Yeah, it's not just you versus like
Speaker 3: the algorithm that you worry is going to like suppress
Speaker 3: you and your friends forever and make it impossible for
Speaker 3: artists to create art for a living. It's not just you.
Speaker 3: And you know the unhinged people who have gone out
Speaker 3: of their way to message me to tell me it's
Speaker 3: disgusting that I'm changing myself and blah blah blah. There's
Speaker 3: a lot of people who are just out here enjoying
Speaker 3: the art and expanding their worldview.
Speaker 1: Yeah, not just enjoying it, but being like changed by it,
Speaker 1: and like, yeah, kind of profoundly effective. Well, what you're
Speaker 1: saying now reminds me of listening to bullying myself like it,
Speaker 1: so it sounds like you are actively working to not
Speaker 1: do that because it's so hard.
Speaker 3: How I've been bullying myself about bullying myself the song
Speaker 3: that I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I need to
Speaker 3: be doing something better. It's not good enough, Like, not
Speaker 3: enough people are seeing my videos about the song and
Speaker 3: and I just haven't figured out the right way to
Speaker 3: smokee the song. And I should be, you know, I
Speaker 3: should be doing better. I'm not, you know, I'm not
Speaker 3: a serious enough artist yet. I don't know, just I
Speaker 3: you know, everything under the sun I have found as
Speaker 3: a way to criticize myself. And it's like, hey, that's silly.
Speaker 3: Do I do not see the irony here? Me?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Come on man?
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah wow. Now I love that song. I feel
Speaker 2: like it. Really it's a good fucking reminder I do
Speaker 2: the same. We all do that. I think the artists,
Speaker 2: especially like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, the ones who don't are the ones
Speaker 1: who should be, which is what's so ironic, the ones
Speaker 1: who are, like I'm flawless. It's like you should bully
Speaker 1: yourself a little bit, like.
Speaker 3: I think a little bit of self awareness. And also
Speaker 3: comes down to is just it's the probably the healthiest
Speaker 3: form of it is just the desire to continue to
Speaker 3: grow as an artist and to stay curious about new.
Speaker 2: Ways and in between.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the very few of us managed to itchy is
Speaker 1: that balance?
Speaker 4: But yeah, yeah, so so and okay, so the relationships
Speaker 4: we don't have to like fully get into.
Speaker 2: This, but that like totally led to this album.
Speaker 1: Like, are any of these people who like you're still
Speaker 1: in touch with like who you were? Like, Okay, I
Speaker 1: have an album coming out, you have a song on it?
Speaker 1: Just head the like what do you when you're releasing
Speaker 1: an album? That's like what's the process for like letting people.
Speaker 3: I actually I did, I did have I did reach
Speaker 3: out to So there's a number of songs on there
Speaker 3: that are about one x or some of the songs
Speaker 3: actually a number of the songs are about multiple people
Speaker 3: or situations. Like some of the songs were started at
Speaker 3: one time and got finished all the time.
Speaker 1: Interesting, So they're like amalgamation that's okay, gotcha, as opposed
Speaker 1: to tailor swept, who was like this one song is
Speaker 1: about this one person and every line is very specific
Speaker 1: to something you did.
Speaker 3: I have that too. I mean there's there's songs that
Speaker 3: are that as well. But a couple of the songs
Speaker 3: were written after one break up a couple of years ago,
Speaker 3: and you know, we had this sort of like somewhat
Speaker 3: complicated like let's stay friends thing that like just like
Speaker 3: definitely wasn't the healthiest thing for me to jump into.
Speaker 3: I was like, yeah, let's stay friends. But I also
Speaker 3: was like I took like weeks, you know, from keeping
Speaker 3: our conversations up because it's just like I have a
Speaker 3: big range of complicated feelings, you know. I wasn't ready
Speaker 3: for that relationship to end, Like I thought it was
Speaker 3: really serious and I thought it was gonna like continue
Speaker 3: for a lot longer. In hindsight, totally like it's one
Speaker 3: of those things where it's just like, man, sometimes people
Speaker 3: just aren't ripe and ready to be in the kind
Speaker 3: of relationship that you are, and that sucks, but it's
Speaker 3: just what happens. Yeah, you know, I still hold multiple
Speaker 3: feelings about this relationship and about just how it happened
Speaker 3: and about what it taught me. But so we were like,
Speaker 3: you know, friends for a little bit, but I definitely
Speaker 3: still was going through a lot of my processing. And
Speaker 3: then there was a chunk of time this past year
Speaker 3: between like between the winter and the spring, where like
Speaker 3: I just like stopped hearing from him for a bit.
Speaker 3: We were like getting to be friends again, where it's like, okay, man,
Speaker 3: we were gonna hang out in person again, and like,
Speaker 3: I think things are going to be better. And then
Speaker 3: I just like wasn't hearing from him because I don't
Speaker 3: know from stuff he was going on, going on whatever,
Speaker 3: whatever was going on, and I felt really anxious about
Speaker 3: the fact that I was. I was starting to pick
Speaker 3: a release date for I Hope you feel terrible, which
Speaker 3: is very blatantly about it, like very very blatantly, I
Speaker 3: like kind of sarcastic, leaning into the whole like screw you,
Speaker 3: you heard my feelings kind of vibe. But I was like,
Speaker 3: I feel like it it holds a different kind of
Speaker 3: weight when it's being released about somebody that I like
Speaker 3: was on good terms with and might not be on
Speaker 3: good terms with anymore. Yeah, it would be one thing
Speaker 3: if it's like somebody I you know, it's like we're
Speaker 3: on good terms. I absolutely don't speak to this person
Speaker 3: and they're not gonna hear this song. They're not you know,
Speaker 3: we're just not in each other's lives. But it was
Speaker 3: just like kind of in between stage from like yeah,
Speaker 3: I really don't want him to hear this song and
Speaker 3: be like oh now I'm never getting back in touch
Speaker 3: with this person. So I did have to reach out.
Speaker 3: I had told him at one point like hey, I
Speaker 3: my next Oh, like oh what if I been up to.
Speaker 3: Oh well, I've been working on this album. It's gonna
Speaker 3: be able to break up songs and yeah, someone the
Speaker 3: remember about you. I have to you know, process and whatever.
Speaker 3: But now I was like, hey, look, I know we
Speaker 3: haven't talked a little while, but I don't know if
Speaker 3: you've seen any of my posts promoting this new song
Speaker 3: on socials, but like I'm putting out a song and like,
Speaker 3: I really don't want you to take it personally. I'm
Speaker 3: not currently harboring these feelings, like I am leaning into
Speaker 3: it for the for the yes, but you know, I
Speaker 3: hope you're good, Uh, don't take it personally, but it's
Speaker 3: funny thing, you know, to release songs that are about like, well,
Speaker 3: it's like the song is called I hope you feel
Speaker 3: terrible at some point, like you know, maybe do take
Speaker 3: it a little bit personally, okay, and then we you know,
Speaker 3: then that sparked conversation again, and uh, I don't know.
Speaker 3: There's other people who have songs about them that like
Speaker 3: probably won't listen to the songs and wouldn't even necessarily
Speaker 3: know that the songs are about them, okay, And I
Speaker 3: don't know, maybe wouldn't even care. I don't I don't
Speaker 3: even really know.
Speaker 1: I feel like having a song written about you, whether
Speaker 1: it's good or bad, is just like there's no way
Speaker 1: somebody can't be a little like, oh my god, have
Speaker 1: a song about.
Speaker 3: I know, a song written about me. But I'm like,
Speaker 3: I don't know. I would kind of feel like, wow,
Speaker 3: I don't know how.
Speaker 2: You don't like, oh me amused? Who knew?
Speaker 3: Like yeah, you do?
Speaker 2: Not feel kind of amped up about that?
Speaker 3: That's yeah, that's my person. Like my one friend feels
Speaker 3: about that. I mean, I'm where, you know, I'm like
Speaker 3: part of me is like I don't know where that like,
Speaker 3: you know, relationship as friends who used to date is
Speaker 3: going to go. I don't know where that you know, yeah,
Speaker 3: how that's going to be by the time the full
Speaker 3: album comes out. I am kind of nervous about, like
Speaker 3: party wants to be like you know what, maybe maybe
Speaker 3: don't listen to the record, but also please listen to
Speaker 3: the record.
Speaker 2: And it's also a couple of months away, like who knows,
Speaker 2: that's a lot of time. Who knows how things progress.
Speaker 3: I also have bonus tracks that I'm still working on
Speaker 3: finishing that are going to come out that you know,
Speaker 3: because like I had all those breakups and then I
Speaker 3: was like, oh wait, there's more.
Speaker 1: Oh no, it's like, ah, you got it just under
Speaker 1: the wire. Congratulations you made the album. Yeah, that's so funny.
Speaker 1: Did you I can't remember if you mentioned this off
Speaker 1: micron mic, So if it was off Mike and you
Speaker 1: don't want to talk about it, we don't have to.
Speaker 2: But did you.
Speaker 1: I feel like you mentioned you were seeing somebody currently
Speaker 1: or no, you said like being perceived or something is different.
Speaker 1: Now I wonder what is it like seeing and it
Speaker 1: is this like a relatively new I don't know how
Speaker 1: serious it is or whatever, but relatively new. But at
Speaker 1: the same time you're promoting and having these song releases
Speaker 1: about breakups. Is that is that like something that you're like, hey,
Speaker 1: so just so you know, like my new song is
Speaker 1: about this, and like it's about a breakup obviously, but
Speaker 1: do you.
Speaker 3: I think I think being in a relationship with me
Speaker 3: has and always will come with the territory of I'm
Speaker 3: gonna be writing about my exes. I'm gonna be saying
Speaker 3: about them and writing about them, and even I mean
Speaker 3: like I've been playing songs that are about relationships that
Speaker 3: I have not had intense feelings about for years totally.
Speaker 1: But like as an artist, it's like that's just gonna
Speaker 1: be a part of your life and.
Speaker 3: We're a little bit it just it just becomes about
Speaker 3: how song the song is, and that's great.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, because it's just so funny how all of us,
Speaker 1: I feel like, are but especially as queer people, we
Speaker 1: are trained like it's always like if she talks about
Speaker 1: her ex on the first day, like that's a warning
Speaker 1: that's here. You are with a fucking album coming out
Speaker 1: all about it, and you have to be like no, no, no, no no,
Speaker 1: But that's like, but it's art and it's not the
Speaker 1: same as someone over sharing on a first day and
Speaker 1: knocking over it, and yeah, it's just.
Speaker 2: Such like funny, but I'm sure not super funny in
Speaker 2: the moment.
Speaker 1: I mean.
Speaker 3: Or two, if I were to meet anybody or get
Speaker 3: involved with anybody who's like, I don't like that you
Speaker 3: have songs about your past relationships and be like that
Speaker 3: is such an unrealistic expectation.
Speaker 1: Man, I can't date anyone who's creative then, because that's
Speaker 1: what ninety percent of art is about.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've learned so much and reflected so much from
Speaker 3: my pastor reallyationships and what they've shown me about my
Speaker 3: relationship with myself, which is kind of like, well, that's
Speaker 3: like what bullying myself is about. It like came to
Speaker 3: be because of the way I was feeling after a
Speaker 3: certain a certain genre of rejection or perceive of rejection,
Speaker 3: and like that's one that I feel like is like
Speaker 3: it's not necessarily like you know who you are, this
Speaker 3: is about you. It's definitely about my relationship to myself,
Speaker 3: but it's about it's my relationship to myself very much
Speaker 3: in light of relationships, and I think it's something that
Speaker 3: applies to all of the relationships that that album encompasses.
Speaker 3: There's always this feeling of like my entire self worth
Speaker 3: being tied to somebody I like liking me back and
Speaker 3: somebody wanting me.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is very relatable for me.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: And have you had I'm just curious, like, have you
Speaker 1: had long ish periods of being single or are you
Speaker 1: someone who like, once you started relationships you found that
Speaker 1: they were kind of like coming fast and furious, like
Speaker 1: in terms of like.
Speaker 3: I've had a little bit of both. Yeah, I've definitely
Speaker 3: I've had I've had a little bit of both. What
Speaker 3: I felt happened in like you know that, like especially
Speaker 3: post college to kind of like last year period of
Speaker 3: time is like I felt like I went from one
Speaker 3: thing to another, not even necessarily one relationship to another,
Speaker 3: but one fixation to another, especially especially during the pandemic
Speaker 3: when things were just really disregulated and it was so
Speaker 3: much easier to just put all of my like things
Speaker 3: to look forward to, hope for the future, feelings, you know,
Speaker 3: reason to get up in the morning, just put all
Speaker 3: of that into a relationship because it's extremely emotionally stimulating. Yes,
Speaker 3: but I feel like I kind of had a period
Speaker 3: of time where I just went from like one crush
Speaker 3: to another crush, and some of these people were people
Speaker 3: that I was involved with and some weren't, okay, and
Speaker 3: I felt like I was only able to get over
Speaker 3: one relationship by getting into some other kind of relationship
Speaker 3: or situationship without you know, always I mean like I was,
Speaker 3: there was time in between those that I was not
Speaker 3: pursuing or being pursued. But I felt always felt very
Speaker 3: susceptible to like just wanting yeah okay, yeah.
Speaker 1: So even so there would maybe be like a crush
Speaker 1: going even if yeah okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, that
Speaker 1: makes sense.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's always always something as I always want to
Speaker 3: I always want to have a crush, which fun, I
Speaker 3: mean fun in its most regulated form. It's fun. It's
Speaker 3: but definitely a big thing I've had to explore. It
Speaker 3: is just like, oh, okay, there's there's ways to have crushes,
Speaker 3: and then like there's the way that I was experiencing
Speaker 3: crushes and thought everybody else was experiencing crushes. Sure, it's
Speaker 3: to like how I would feel about Joe Jonas as
Speaker 3: a young yeah teen, yeah, you know, feeling like really
Speaker 3: wrapped up in it, like to an unregulated degree.
Speaker 1: I think for a lot of creative people that is
Speaker 1: again very relatable, feeling things to a degree that is.
Speaker 2: Extreme to many other people if they were to be
Speaker 2: inside your brain.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I definitely think really putting myself first
Speaker 3: and allowing myself to transition into this more authentic version
Speaker 3: of myself is the best thing.
Speaker 1: Also for relationships, Oh my god, of course it's gonna
Speaker 1: you're gonna be experiencing. I would imagine relationships in a
Speaker 1: totally different way now that you're finally feeling yeah.
Speaker 2: Like yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: Even just the way I feel about myself, I just uh,
Speaker 3: I feel genuinely like different and better about spending time
Speaker 3: with myself.
Speaker 2: Oh god, yeah, that's such a great way to put it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Like it really just feels like I when
Speaker 3: I used to the thoughts I used to stave off.
Speaker 3: Is stave off the right word? I don't really remember, Yeah,
Speaker 3: pre tea would be like I would stave off these
Speaker 3: thoughts of like what if? What if starting testosterone and
Speaker 3: leaning into the more gender non conforming version of myself
Speaker 3: that I think about so often would just fix everything?
Speaker 3: What if that would just be the key to feeling
Speaker 3: better about myself and to having better relationships. What if
Speaker 3: it just like fixes everything? That would be so and
Speaker 3: then I'd be like, no, I don't want to think that,
Speaker 3: because that means I should actually look into that and
Speaker 3: start that, and then that means that's so scary. That
Speaker 3: means that I have to actually decide on something about myself,
Speaker 3: and that means that I am also Honestly, my biggest
Speaker 3: fear was that just like boys won't like me. I
Speaker 3: was like, like, this is like my type of guy.
Speaker 3: The kind of guy that I like is not like
Speaker 3: probably not going to be into me. And but now
Speaker 3: now I'm like, honestly, there are a ton of people
Speaker 3: that I'm attracted to and I know I'm not their type.
Speaker 3: And yeah, that's just a new thing that I have to,
Speaker 3: like to have to just go on like accepting that
Speaker 3: just like that's that's fine. Not everybody, not everybody has
Speaker 3: to be attracted to me. That doesn't mean that I
Speaker 3: can't like have meaningful relationships and have value in people's lives.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, well said thanks.
Speaker 1: Before we get into like where folks can find you
Speaker 1: and your music and all that, is there anything that
Speaker 1: we haven't covered that you want to hit on? I
Speaker 1: want to make sure you get to say everything that
Speaker 1: you want to say.
Speaker 3: Oh, explore, exploring exploring yourself is great, exploring gender or
Speaker 3: even things outside of gender. I think there's a lot
Speaker 3: about exploring gender and just exploring oneself as a person
Speaker 3: and cultivating a relationship with oneself outside of every you know,
Speaker 3: just conventional societal expectations is so great. Also, therapy is
Speaker 3: great if you can find the right therapist. If you
Speaker 3: can therapist for therapist, shout out to therapy. And community
Speaker 3: is great. Community is all we.
Speaker 1: Have, and.
Speaker 3: I, you know, I wouldn't be able to be talking
Speaker 3: about these things like this without any of those things. Community,
Speaker 3: including including friends and family. If you're lucky enough to
Speaker 3: just naturally be in a place where you have people
Speaker 3: who are on your team.
Speaker 2: Yeah, really, and if.
Speaker 3: You don't all be on your team?
Speaker 2: Oh well, okay, that's a perfect segue.
Speaker 1: So yeah, where can people find you and your music
Speaker 1: and and make sure they know when the album drops? Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're on a bunch of different platforms, and.
Speaker 3: Yeah, on any music platform. I'm on there as boy
Speaker 3: Junior boy Jr. Period. My instagram is BOYD Junior Official,
Speaker 3: My TikTok is BOYD Junior point six ' nine. My
Speaker 3: Twitter is BOYD Junior Music. I'm on YouTube. You can
Speaker 3: just search BOYD Junior for that. I think I'm on
Speaker 3: Patreon if you want to get behind the scenes access
Speaker 3: and downloads of special release songs every month and art.
Speaker 3: I also have a monthly art club where I will
Speaker 3: send you my funky little drawings every month. Yeah, it's
Speaker 3: a lot of fun. I really want more people to
Speaker 3: sign up for that. I love drawing. I just started
Speaker 3: a fiver account. You can search BOYD Junior on Fiver
Speaker 3: and I will write you a custom song or I
Speaker 3: will produce your music for you. I'm also available for
Speaker 3: hire for music work if people are looking for some
Speaker 3: unique songwriting or production. I have a mailing list, an
Speaker 3: email list that I always encourage people to sign up
Speaker 3: for because I think that's the best way to be
Speaker 3: sure you know when things are released right now. The
Speaker 3: only way you can sign up for it is you
Speaker 3: either tell me your email address directly or I have
Speaker 3: a merch website. It's boy Junior dot big Cartel dot com.
Speaker 3: But also it's my link tree is the link in
Speaker 3: my bio and all of my socials and everything I'm on.
Speaker 3: I have a link to the site on there, and
Speaker 3: a pop up window comes up when you go to
Speaker 3: the merch site that asks if you'd like to join
Speaker 3: the email list. So I always advise that because I
Speaker 3: you could just never know, if you never know, if
Speaker 3: you can just trust your your social media feed to.
Speaker 1: Show you when as I talked about, it is the
Speaker 1: wild West with the algorithms, they're changing it like daily
Speaker 1: and people.
Speaker 2: Are freaking out as we should be really hard.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just hard.
Speaker 2: It's hard out there.
Speaker 3: So I have all that. I have new singles coming out, uh,
Speaker 3: almost every month, I think until the album comes out
Speaker 3: at the end of October. Yeah, and then I'll be
Speaker 3: doing a bunch of tour dates. I think I'm gonna
Speaker 3: be doing different legs of a big I love getting
Speaker 3: dumped tour so that we don't all burn out and
Speaker 3: so that we can all continue to hold down our
Speaker 3: jobs and take some time to go on the road.
Speaker 3: So I guess I'm thinking, you know, hopefully next year,
Speaker 3: probably next you know, the next two years maybe will
Speaker 3: involve a lot of different legs of tours throughout the country.
Speaker 3: Maybe hopefully someday I'll have enough money to tour in
Speaker 3: other countries as well. Oh yeah, I really want to
Speaker 3: do like a European tour. Yes, but it's just it's
Speaker 3: it's expensive to get over there, expensive to find it.
Speaker 2: It is very prohibit it is very cost prohibitive.
Speaker 3: Yeah, some day it'll happen.
Speaker 2: That is awesome.
Speaker 1: No, I'm so thank you so much for doing this.
Speaker 1: And like I've said this, people have heard me say
Speaker 1: this on the podcast before. I am someone who's like
Speaker 1: my music knowledge taps out at like the nineties, and
Speaker 1: mostly what I listened to is like seventies like folk rock.
Speaker 1: So anytime I have a musician on and I and
Speaker 1: I'm about to listen to their music, I'm like, please
Speaker 1: let me actually like this so I don't have to
Speaker 1: like do an episode around like lying about it. But
Speaker 1: like your music, It's just like anytime I listened to
Speaker 1: modern music, I'm like, I should fucking listen to modern music,
Speaker 1: like I like it.
Speaker 2: Why do I own d of stuff from before I
Speaker 2: was born? But like, yeah, I really did.
Speaker 1: I just really enjoyed it and the album. I'm so
Speaker 1: excited because yeah, I getting dumped has definitely been a feature.
Speaker 2: Of my life.
Speaker 1: YEA excited that there's a whole album about it, and
Speaker 1: y'all you know where to find me.
Speaker 2: I'm at Lauren Flants on Twitter, Lauren Underscore Flants on Instagram.
Speaker 2: The podcast is at coming Out pod everywhere.
Speaker 1: Hey, if you haven't reviewed the podcast, you can that
Speaker 1: on Spotify Mobile or on iTunes.
Speaker 2: You can write a review yay, that's great. But other
Speaker 2: than that, you all know the drill. I will always
Speaker 2: give a little heads up.
Speaker 1: When I'm releasing new episodes. But it's so good to
Speaker 1: be back, and I hope everyone's been doing well and
Speaker 1: I will see you the next time. I've got a
Speaker 1: new guest to talk to.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2: Take care Bye.