WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.240 --> 00:00:09.119 Hey, welcome back to another episode of JavaScript Jabber. This week, 2 00:00:09.119 --> 00:00:11.039 on our panel, we have Dan Shapier. 3 00:00:11.519 --> 00:00:15.839 Hello from still Cold tel Aviv. Cool. 4 00:00:16.519 --> 00:00:18.920 I just went for a walk in like thirty degree weather. 5 00:00:18.960 --> 00:00:22.079 So it's relatively cold. I mean it's a fifty degrees 6 00:00:22.120 --> 00:00:25.239 fahrenheit or so, so you know that's really cold. 7 00:00:25.600 --> 00:00:30.640 That's like cross what Okay, fine, all the snow hasn't melted. 8 00:00:30.679 --> 00:00:30.839 Here. 9 00:00:30.839 --> 00:00:34.000 I'm Charles Maxwood from Top End Depths and we have 10 00:00:34.039 --> 00:00:36.799 a special guest this week. We have Jack Harrington. Jack, 11 00:00:36.880 --> 00:00:38.000 it's been a while. 12 00:00:37.960 --> 00:00:40.240 Yeah right, wow, you know we used to do a 13 00:00:40.280 --> 00:00:43.759 podcast together and yeah, now've my own podcast and there 14 00:00:43.799 --> 00:00:44.039 you go. 15 00:00:44.079 --> 00:00:46.399 But it's great being here. It's so nice to see 16 00:00:46.399 --> 00:00:49.600 you guys again. And yeah, it's great, great to be here. 17 00:00:49.719 --> 00:00:52.840 And here it's weirdly very sunny. We've had a lot 18 00:00:52.840 --> 00:00:53.960 of rain lately where. 19 00:00:53.840 --> 00:00:57.320 I'm over in Portland and it's like fifty which to 20 00:00:57.399 --> 00:01:03.679 us is shorts weather. Right, yeah, that's like bombing. 21 00:01:05.159 --> 00:01:05.599 Let's go. 22 00:01:06.920 --> 00:01:10.000 Yeah, you can have humidity there too, so. 23 00:01:11.840 --> 00:01:18.200 Like crumbling my fingers and stuff. 24 00:01:18.239 --> 00:01:20.280 I moisturize all day. 25 00:01:21.519 --> 00:01:25.719 Well compared to hear it's humid. Yeah, we live in 26 00:01:25.719 --> 00:01:30.159 this desert anytimes. I don't know. 27 00:01:30.239 --> 00:01:32.719 The skiing is good, Yeah, there you go. 28 00:01:34.000 --> 00:01:37.920 But yeah, Dan Dan said that great react as going away? 29 00:01:38.159 --> 00:01:38.560 Is that right? 30 00:01:38.640 --> 00:01:41.640 Yeah, it's gone away. It's gone officially. 31 00:01:41.959 --> 00:01:43.519 Well we can still use it, but it gets a 32 00:01:43.519 --> 00:01:46.280 big warning about deprecations deprecated. 33 00:01:46.400 --> 00:01:47.760 So to me, that's going away. 34 00:01:47.760 --> 00:01:50.920 But oh no, it's definitely going I mean, yeah eventually. 35 00:01:51.879 --> 00:01:56.120 Well look things well stuff like that. I don't know, 36 00:01:56.159 --> 00:01:58.680 maybe one day it will be officially e weld. But 37 00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:03.120 from my perspective, when it's deprecated, you really shouldn't be 38 00:02:03.239 --> 00:02:04.400 using it for new stuff. 39 00:02:05.599 --> 00:02:06.359 Yeah, I agree. 40 00:02:06.640 --> 00:02:10.800 Yeah, there's been better alternatives for a while. But I 41 00:02:10.800 --> 00:02:15.840 think the big difference is that, like the problem with 42 00:02:15.879 --> 00:02:19.080 that they were we have is that there's a lot 43 00:02:19.080 --> 00:02:21.479 of old tutorials and stuff that use create react app. 44 00:02:21.560 --> 00:02:24.439 There's still as valid as they were back then. Now 45 00:02:24.599 --> 00:02:27.120 you know they're talking about like maybe you stay and 46 00:02:27.240 --> 00:02:30.520 basic hooks and stuff like that, and you know those 47 00:02:30.560 --> 00:02:32.960 are going to last for a while, and just because 48 00:02:32.960 --> 00:02:36.479 they use create react app in the demo doesn't like 49 00:02:36.919 --> 00:02:39.639 distract from that. So you know, that's kind of the 50 00:02:39.680 --> 00:02:42.800 problem that folks are having, which is they deprecated this 51 00:02:42.879 --> 00:02:45.240 thing into now learners, folks who just want to like 52 00:02:45.520 --> 00:02:49.319 try out stuff, you know, they what are their alternatives? 53 00:02:49.319 --> 00:02:51.759 And the alternatives they were given were like the next. 54 00:02:52.520 --> 00:02:56.240 Before we go to alternatives. Maybe it's worthwhile. I'm guessing 55 00:02:56.280 --> 00:02:59.400 everybody knows, probably our entire audience, but I still think 56 00:02:59.400 --> 00:03:03.919 it's worth while to mention what create react app was 57 00:03:04.360 --> 00:03:07.560 or is it still is, why it was actually needed, 58 00:03:07.560 --> 00:03:08.520 what it does for you. 59 00:03:09.560 --> 00:03:12.719 Sure, so create React ap is interesting, it won The 60 00:03:12.759 --> 00:03:16.120 most salient thing to me is that it creates React apps, right, 61 00:03:16.159 --> 00:03:18.000 and those are SPA applications. 62 00:03:18.599 --> 00:03:20.560 This was done in the very early days. 63 00:03:21.199 --> 00:03:24.120 I mean SSR was around, But this is not creating 64 00:03:24.199 --> 00:03:26.159 SSR applications. This is creating the kind of stuff that 65 00:03:26.199 --> 00:03:29.159 you'd build. You create a disc file, you put that 66 00:03:29.240 --> 00:03:31.080 off on S three or some CDN, and you'd have 67 00:03:31.159 --> 00:03:35.639 yourself a site and very simple stuff, you know, SPA 68 00:03:35.840 --> 00:03:37.479 single page application type stuff. 69 00:03:38.080 --> 00:03:38.960 And the other thing that. 70 00:03:39.400 --> 00:03:42.599 Interesting about create React app that I had actually forgotten 71 00:03:43.520 --> 00:03:47.080 was that it remains a dependency in your application. It 72 00:03:47.120 --> 00:03:49.560 doesn't just create the app. It actually like remains a 73 00:03:49.560 --> 00:03:50.599 dependency in your application. 74 00:03:50.800 --> 00:03:53.680 Yeah, gets injected into your package jsone. 75 00:03:53.439 --> 00:03:56.199 Oh yeah, and then it actually maintained like it will 76 00:03:56.439 --> 00:03:59.919 rev your React versions and everything like that going forward. 77 00:04:00.039 --> 00:04:03.120 And that was the original promise of Create React App 78 00:04:03.240 --> 00:04:05.680 was to give you like it was an actual platform, 79 00:04:05.919 --> 00:04:09.479 kind of like next JS. And the idea was you 80 00:04:09.479 --> 00:04:11.280 get on create React app and you can just keep 81 00:04:11.319 --> 00:04:13.960 reving that and you always keep up to date with React. 82 00:04:14.439 --> 00:04:17.480 And that kind of stumbled I don't know, like zero 83 00:04:17.560 --> 00:04:21.040 point or sixteen kind of that and that time. 84 00:04:21.959 --> 00:04:25.959 So it would literally whenever a new React version would 85 00:04:26.040 --> 00:04:31.199 come out, would automatically update your package Jason to use 86 00:04:31.399 --> 00:04:33.959 that you were version without even asking you. 87 00:04:34.439 --> 00:04:37.279 No, no, no, no, I mean it's it's dependencies. It 88 00:04:37.319 --> 00:04:40.319 would handle the React dependency for you, so you'd bump. 89 00:04:40.360 --> 00:04:43.000 Your I don't remember, I just I don't remember that. 90 00:04:45.160 --> 00:04:48.279 Yeah, that's that was what I believe it did. And 91 00:04:48.319 --> 00:04:50.800 that was what that was what folks were complaining about 92 00:04:50.800 --> 00:04:53.079 when we talked about like, oh, we we've got this 93 00:04:53.160 --> 00:04:55.560 drop in replacement, They're like, oh, well, are you actually 94 00:04:55.600 --> 00:04:59.360 replacing that that functionality in create React ap. 95 00:04:59.399 --> 00:05:01.879 Are you going to hand all of that? It's like, no, no, no, 96 00:05:02.079 --> 00:05:04.720 that we don't. They don't do that. We just make 97 00:05:04.759 --> 00:05:05.160 an app. 98 00:05:05.600 --> 00:05:09.759 It seems weird. I mean, NPM exists so that it 99 00:05:09.839 --> 00:05:13.920 does that stuff for you. Why would you need something 100 00:05:13.959 --> 00:05:16.879 else to do that for you on top of NPM. 101 00:05:17.240 --> 00:05:20.399 What's handling all the other things like Webpack and everything else. 102 00:05:20.480 --> 00:05:22.959 Oh yeah, no, I'm talking about consistencies right. 103 00:05:23.279 --> 00:05:26.000 No, No, I'm putting Webpack aside for a minute. I'm 104 00:05:26.040 --> 00:05:28.319 talking just about what you said about keeping you up 105 00:05:28.319 --> 00:05:29.519 to date with reacts. 106 00:05:30.040 --> 00:05:30.240 Yeah. 107 00:05:30.240 --> 00:05:33.639 I would imagine that it, you know, is things get 108 00:05:33.759 --> 00:05:38.560 released that it has some internal, you know, way of 109 00:05:38.600 --> 00:05:41.639 tracking dependencies. So it's not just React, it's all the 110 00:05:41.680 --> 00:05:42.199 other stuff. 111 00:05:42.279 --> 00:05:43.839 It's all theilary extra things. 112 00:05:44.199 --> 00:05:46.920 So when you update it, it's saying, we know this 113 00:05:46.959 --> 00:05:49.439 stuff plays nice together, and so it updates everything. 114 00:05:49.560 --> 00:05:53.240 Oh okay, yeah yeah, Still what seemed to be stuff 115 00:05:53.279 --> 00:05:56.240 that should be handled via the package manager rather than 116 00:05:56.279 --> 00:05:57.639 something ideally Yeah. 117 00:05:57.959 --> 00:06:00.279 Yeah, And I think that that's where it kind of like, 118 00:06:00.319 --> 00:06:02.879 that's I mean, this thing came out like a decade ago, 119 00:06:03.040 --> 00:06:06.040 and I think back then they were trying to compete 120 00:06:06.079 --> 00:06:09.000 against an Angular and Angular was starting to have that 121 00:06:09.079 --> 00:06:11.720 cl I, and the cl I was doing that kind 122 00:06:11.759 --> 00:06:13.480 of thing where it's taking care of all that that 123 00:06:13.519 --> 00:06:14.600 funky business for you. 124 00:06:15.199 --> 00:06:17.519 So it did a lot of other things for you too. 125 00:06:17.560 --> 00:06:20.360 But yeah, yeah, so this is a nice way, you know, 126 00:06:20.399 --> 00:06:23.120 for them to like kind of compete against that. But 127 00:06:23.240 --> 00:06:26.120 in the modern context, nobody, I mean, at least for me. 128 00:06:26.399 --> 00:06:28.839 I mean, nobody wants that. Everybody just wants to maintain 129 00:06:28.839 --> 00:06:31.279 their own package of stuff and do the reving themselves 130 00:06:31.360 --> 00:06:32.839 and have granio control over it. 131 00:06:33.279 --> 00:06:37.240 I always thought that it was primarily about getting the 132 00:06:37.240 --> 00:06:42.759 Webpex stuff right, that, you know, getting properly configuring webpack. 133 00:06:43.199 --> 00:06:43.839 Oh my god. 134 00:06:43.959 --> 00:06:45.959 Yeah, yeah, that's. 135 00:06:45.800 --> 00:06:49.879 Not trivial, right, And when you eject, well, that's the thing, right, 136 00:06:50.319 --> 00:06:53.560 there's this whole thing about ejecting from create react ap 137 00:06:53.720 --> 00:06:55.439 and so why do you need to eject from create 138 00:06:55.480 --> 00:06:58.639 react app unless it's actively maintaining stuff for you. Well, 139 00:06:59.000 --> 00:07:00.839 you know what you do when you eject from create 140 00:07:00.920 --> 00:07:03.639 react ap is it actually gives you access to all 141 00:07:03.680 --> 00:07:06.560 of the stuff that it's maintaining, including like the webpack 142 00:07:06.600 --> 00:07:08.079 and fig and everything else. 143 00:07:08.079 --> 00:07:09.959 And if you look at the whypack and fig, it's 144 00:07:10.720 --> 00:07:15.480 it's shockingly complex. It was, it was huge. It's crazy. 145 00:07:16.639 --> 00:07:19.040 I quit having nightmares about webpath and now you're bringing 146 00:07:19.079 --> 00:07:19.439 it back. 147 00:07:22.959 --> 00:07:28.040 So basically, we had this command line tool that people 148 00:07:28.120 --> 00:07:31.120 who wanted to start playing around with React and maybe 149 00:07:31.319 --> 00:07:34.879 didn't have a lot of experience in single page applications 150 00:07:35.199 --> 00:07:38.519 either way, Yeah, could get up to speed, and as 151 00:07:38.560 --> 00:07:41.279 you said, it would configure the bundling for you, that 152 00:07:41.480 --> 00:07:45.600 is webpack, It would download the necessary stuff. It might 153 00:07:45.720 --> 00:07:47.879 even keep you up to date on some of the things, 154 00:07:48.120 --> 00:07:51.639 and it would create a simple project for you. To 155 00:07:51.680 --> 00:07:54.800 be honest, it's been a very long time since I've 156 00:07:54.879 --> 00:07:57.800 actually used create and React ap myself. Most of the 157 00:07:57.839 --> 00:08:01.480 projects that I've been working on did that a while ago. 158 00:08:01.720 --> 00:08:05.800 Right, yeah, exactly. Yeah, but it was funny. 159 00:08:05.800 --> 00:08:07.360 I saw it again for the first time and I 160 00:08:07.399 --> 00:08:10.600 was like, oh, I remember this, the spinning React logo. 161 00:08:10.480 --> 00:08:13.920 On the homepage. You know, wow, that's what that was. 162 00:08:15.000 --> 00:08:18.240 And yeah, so we did kind of a riff on 163 00:08:18.279 --> 00:08:20.040 that when when we did our thing. 164 00:08:20.439 --> 00:08:22.839 Okay, so talking about your thing, so we said that 165 00:08:22.920 --> 00:08:23.839 it's going away. 166 00:08:24.800 --> 00:08:27.959 I guess here, I'm gonna pop a comment that somebody 167 00:08:27.959 --> 00:08:33.919 threw our way, he says the professor. His professor still 168 00:08:34.000 --> 00:08:37.159 uses create React app for teaching React, and he suggested 169 00:08:37.240 --> 00:08:39.360 vite And it sounds like you've got some other idea 170 00:08:39.480 --> 00:08:40.080 of what to. 171 00:08:40.039 --> 00:08:41.840 Do no, I agree. 172 00:08:41.879 --> 00:08:44.600 Actually, be honest, before we go there, I have to 173 00:08:44.639 --> 00:08:48.000 say that I'm kind of shocked that a professor teaches 174 00:08:48.120 --> 00:08:49.639 react really. 175 00:08:52.399 --> 00:08:54.279 I mean a couple of years ago, I wouldn't I 176 00:08:54.279 --> 00:08:56.799 would be shocked, But nowadays, like I my kid just 177 00:08:56.840 --> 00:09:00.720 went through Oregon State and yeah that the web the 178 00:09:00.840 --> 00:09:05.840 courses were has some you know, kind of recent stuff, 179 00:09:05.879 --> 00:09:08.120 and I think there was an actual course on web 180 00:09:08.279 --> 00:09:09.519 development in particular. 181 00:09:09.559 --> 00:09:15.679 And yeah, sure they react yeah money man, practical skills. 182 00:09:16.399 --> 00:09:19.039 In high school, we're doing web development. But I think 183 00:09:19.039 --> 00:09:22.320 they were teaching him just the general web APIs for JavaScript. 184 00:09:22.799 --> 00:09:23.480 That's a good idea. 185 00:09:24.000 --> 00:09:26.799 It's just the universities tend to be elitist in these 186 00:09:27.120 --> 00:09:30.120 sort of things, Ivory Tower and whatnot. And it's not 187 00:09:30.200 --> 00:09:34.240 about the practical skills. It's about expanding your mind. So 188 00:09:34.320 --> 00:09:39.120 they teach you Java. Yeah, because that expands your mind. 189 00:09:40.679 --> 00:09:41.679 When I went to college. 190 00:09:43.120 --> 00:09:45.039 I won't tell you what they talked when I went 191 00:09:45.080 --> 00:09:54.200 to university. Yeah. Anyway, we digress, Uh, going back to 192 00:09:54.240 --> 00:10:00.879 the topic at hand. So, like that commenter stated, isn't 193 00:10:01.240 --> 00:10:04.720 vat kind of a replacement for create react up these days? 194 00:10:04.759 --> 00:10:06.440 What's missing? Uh? 195 00:10:06.759 --> 00:10:07.120 Okay? 196 00:10:07.200 --> 00:10:11.759 So, as an educator, I think every little bump in 197 00:10:11.799 --> 00:10:15.399 the road from what I'm seeing in my tutorial versus 198 00:10:15.399 --> 00:10:16.679 what I'm actually like. 199 00:10:16.679 --> 00:10:20.480 Getting as as part of the setup is a problem. 200 00:10:20.879 --> 00:10:23.960 And because I'm seeing people people would say, oh, you know, 201 00:10:24.600 --> 00:10:27.440 your tutorial says change this one line and this one 202 00:10:27.440 --> 00:10:30.159 line is different from what I expect because it's now 203 00:10:30.200 --> 00:10:32.639 I do my great React app or whatever, and I 204 00:10:32.639 --> 00:10:36.720 get something else. Right, And so when I'm thinking about 205 00:10:36.720 --> 00:10:38.799 folks who are going to take those tutorials and would 206 00:10:38.840 --> 00:10:42.480 normally be doing, like create React app. If you say them, cool, 207 00:10:42.679 --> 00:10:45.559 just use VAT. Well one, what VAT command do you use? 208 00:10:46.120 --> 00:10:49.960 Because there, if you just run VAT, you'll actually create 209 00:10:50.159 --> 00:10:52.840 vat app or whatever it is you'll get, like I think, 210 00:10:53.039 --> 00:10:54.440 I don't even know if there is a default, but 211 00:10:54.519 --> 00:10:58.559 the defaults probably view and so you need to like 212 00:10:58.600 --> 00:11:02.120 specify a template and the temple would be React or 213 00:11:02.159 --> 00:11:04.759 React tosh ts and that will give you React or 214 00:11:04.799 --> 00:11:07.960 React typescript. And then once you get the app, I'm 215 00:11:08.000 --> 00:11:11.159 pretty sure the files are in different locations. Certainly the 216 00:11:11.200 --> 00:11:14.840 content is entirely different. And now, as a as a 217 00:11:14.879 --> 00:11:18.799 potential learner, right, I've got this huge disparity between where 218 00:11:18.840 --> 00:11:22.600 the tutorial is and where this this VAT app that 219 00:11:22.679 --> 00:11:25.360 I just created is. It looks like an entirely different thing, 220 00:11:25.960 --> 00:11:27.919 you know, And it only gets worse if you look 221 00:11:27.919 --> 00:11:30.120 at next jas because now next jas it's like it's 222 00:11:30.120 --> 00:11:33.840 not even really a SPA anymore. It's now an actual 223 00:11:33.960 --> 00:11:36.840 like SSR app and that's a whole thing. 224 00:11:37.360 --> 00:11:38.320 Yeah, it's a SPA. 225 00:11:38.799 --> 00:11:39.480 It's not though. 226 00:11:39.639 --> 00:11:42.480 I mean, you've got to use used client one and 227 00:11:42.519 --> 00:11:44.200 that's been in an old school tutorial. 228 00:11:44.240 --> 00:11:45.440 It's not going to tell you to do that. 229 00:11:45.799 --> 00:11:47.639 And even if you do use use client, well, it's 230 00:11:47.639 --> 00:11:49.759 going to render on both the server and the client, 231 00:11:49.960 --> 00:11:51.480 and so you're going to need to do stuff like 232 00:11:51.559 --> 00:11:54.240 checking against window and document and all the rest. 233 00:11:54.799 --> 00:11:58.720 It's a yeah, no, I agree, I was just nitpeaking. 234 00:11:59.440 --> 00:12:04.120 It's still a spot, it's not a it's not client rendered, 235 00:12:05.159 --> 00:12:06.000 it's not the side. 236 00:12:06.399 --> 00:12:06.799 Yeah. 237 00:12:07.039 --> 00:12:09.919 So so it's still a single page application because at 238 00:12:09.960 --> 00:12:13.159 the end of the day, even with the with next jays, 239 00:12:14.399 --> 00:12:18.519 you can, I guess, kind of make a multi page 240 00:12:18.519 --> 00:12:21.480 application out of next Gas, but it's not really meant 241 00:12:21.519 --> 00:12:24.200 for that. It's meant for single page applications. But it 242 00:12:24.279 --> 00:12:28.879 definitely involves a server yeah. 243 00:12:27.840 --> 00:12:31.279 By the way, and actually you can build next jas fairly, 244 00:12:31.399 --> 00:12:33.200 and you can build next jays and build it. 245 00:12:33.159 --> 00:12:34.919 To static and all that and that. 246 00:12:35.279 --> 00:12:38.559 In fact, it actually if you don't make any request 247 00:12:38.639 --> 00:12:41.000 to get service side props or in the app rout 248 00:12:41.039 --> 00:12:42.559 or if you don't make any fetches or any of 249 00:12:42.600 --> 00:12:45.440 that or do anything dynamic, it will actually just build 250 00:12:45.480 --> 00:12:46.480 you a static app. 251 00:12:46.720 --> 00:12:50.480 Right. So so yeah, we actually had Rob Lee from 252 00:12:50.679 --> 00:12:53.559 Versaill on Monday, Yeah Gus on the show, and I 253 00:12:53.679 --> 00:12:57.240 literally asked him, like, you know, creat react app is 254 00:12:57.279 --> 00:13:00.840 going away, what's in what's your answer when people don't 255 00:13:00.879 --> 00:13:05.480 want like the full stack experience? And he basically said, 256 00:13:05.519 --> 00:13:11.480 what you said, that you that that server that reacts 257 00:13:11.480 --> 00:13:16.320 server components can actually execute a bill time and then 258 00:13:16.480 --> 00:13:19.080 you can take the output of that build and deploy 259 00:13:19.159 --> 00:13:21.720 it to let's say an S free bucket and have 260 00:13:21.840 --> 00:13:26.080 it sthetically served that way. I'd be really surprised though, 261 00:13:26.120 --> 00:13:31.519 if if people are really using that style of set 262 00:13:31.639 --> 00:13:36.240 up in Anger with with next gs, I'd be I'd 263 00:13:36.240 --> 00:13:39.399 be really surprised. I mean, if you're buying into next JS, 264 00:13:39.960 --> 00:13:46.559 you're going to actually use the next JS way, I guess. 265 00:13:46.559 --> 00:13:49.159 Yeah, you're probably there for SSR to some degree more 266 00:13:49.279 --> 00:13:51.600 or less. I mean the cool thing with with the 267 00:13:51.639 --> 00:13:53.759 app writer, and I'm not dissing the app writer. I 268 00:13:53.759 --> 00:13:55.120 mean the ap riightter is an amazing piece of work. 269 00:13:55.120 --> 00:13:56.639 And I've got course on the app writer and it's 270 00:13:56.720 --> 00:14:01.279 it's incredible, right, But there's all kinds of options around it. 271 00:14:01.440 --> 00:14:04.559 You know, components can be dynamic, can be you know, static, 272 00:14:04.879 --> 00:14:07.759 and it can define route by route what's going to 273 00:14:07.799 --> 00:14:09.600 be static when it's going to be dynamic. And it 274 00:14:09.679 --> 00:14:12.759 is it's an amazing piece of work. But if you 275 00:14:12.840 --> 00:14:15.279 are somebody who's just trying to like learn React or 276 00:14:15.360 --> 00:14:18.759 just put together a SPA, like, it's a lot of 277 00:14:18.799 --> 00:14:22.840 stuff that's entirely different from what you've experienced in the past. 278 00:14:23.240 --> 00:14:24.840 Building out a SPA like it did. 279 00:14:24.960 --> 00:14:28.240 Yeah, it's crazy. I think I think a lot of 280 00:14:28.279 --> 00:14:30.840 this is is kind of where people are looking, right, 281 00:14:30.879 --> 00:14:34.000 because I think in a lot of cases, yeah, people 282 00:14:34.039 --> 00:14:39.080 are so as an experienced developer, right, Yeah, if I'm 283 00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:41.080 going to go and build something mission critical, yeah, I'm 284 00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:43.320 going to go evaluate and am I going to use next? 285 00:14:43.360 --> 00:14:44.639 Am I going to use this? Am I going to 286 00:14:44.759 --> 00:14:47.679 use that? Right? You know? Before just create React app, 287 00:14:47.720 --> 00:14:50.480 get me where I want to go or not. But 288 00:14:51.120 --> 00:14:52.960 for I think a lot of people where they're just 289 00:14:53.120 --> 00:14:55.440 trying to learn React or trying to pick something up, 290 00:14:55.600 --> 00:14:57.360 or you know, hey, I just want to build a 291 00:14:57.399 --> 00:14:59.440 web app. What they do is they go to their 292 00:14:59.480 --> 00:15:01.679 friend who looks like me, and they say what do 293 00:15:01.720 --> 00:15:04.320 I use? And so if I'm the guy that really 294 00:15:04.399 --> 00:15:06.440 likes next Jas, then I'm going to tell him to 295 00:15:06.480 --> 00:15:08.399 go pick that up because it's great and I love 296 00:15:08.440 --> 00:15:12.360 it and it does all the things. And so I 297 00:15:12.360 --> 00:15:15.039 think that's where the conversation is, is what are the 298 00:15:15.039 --> 00:15:18.480 trade offs now between picking next jas or something else. 299 00:15:18.879 --> 00:15:25.000 There's another point, so I'll give I've been talking to 300 00:15:25.120 --> 00:15:30.879 various people who are building organizational applications, and these are 301 00:15:30.919 --> 00:15:36.600 applications that don't get ranked because they are either wholly 302 00:15:36.759 --> 00:15:40.960 internal or maybe they are external, but they're behind some 303 00:15:41.039 --> 00:15:45.720 authentication so they're not scanned by Google. Now, if you're 304 00:15:45.759 --> 00:15:49.320 building a website that needs to rank, that needs to 305 00:15:49.360 --> 00:15:53.799 be indexed, you're going to need SSR. But for a 306 00:15:53.799 --> 00:15:58.120 lot of these internal applications, the guys working on the 307 00:15:58.399 --> 00:16:02.200 React stuff, they don't work, they don't necessarily do anything 308 00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:07.039 on the back end. They're connecting directly to RESTful end 309 00:16:07.080 --> 00:16:12.679 points implemented in Go or Java or whatever, and they're 310 00:16:12.720 --> 00:16:15.600 just building the front end and they don't care about 311 00:16:15.759 --> 00:16:22.039 SSR because it's, like I said, it's not that type 312 00:16:22.039 --> 00:16:27.440 of an application, and for them, next jes seems very 313 00:16:27.559 --> 00:16:28.639 much like overkill. 314 00:16:30.360 --> 00:16:34.559 Yeah, I'm writting down a note to myself because I 315 00:16:34.879 --> 00:16:36.919 just had an interesting ques A question this morning about 316 00:16:37.000 --> 00:16:39.519 using tan Sac start without SSR. 317 00:16:40.600 --> 00:16:45.080 Actually that's the interesting point. So when we had Tanner 318 00:16:45.360 --> 00:16:47.759 on the show and we had him as the first 319 00:16:47.960 --> 00:16:52.399 guest this year back in January, I literally asked him 320 00:16:52.399 --> 00:16:56.039 about that and what he conveyed to me or the 321 00:16:56.080 --> 00:16:59.000 way that I understood it that one of the biggest 322 00:16:59.039 --> 00:17:04.960 selling points of ten stack start versus next JS is 323 00:17:05.039 --> 00:17:10.119 that next JS is back end first. Everything starts on 324 00:17:10.160 --> 00:17:13.480 the back end and then some of the stuff happens 325 00:17:13.480 --> 00:17:18.720 on the front end, and ten stack Start, even though 326 00:17:18.759 --> 00:17:23.880 it supports that full stack configuration, the whole mindset is 327 00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:27.279 front end first, and you can reach out to the 328 00:17:27.319 --> 00:17:31.000 back end to get stuff to do stuff, but the 329 00:17:31.079 --> 00:17:35.519 but the architecture is first and foremost on the front end. 330 00:17:36.440 --> 00:17:40.400 So with a ten stack start, you might start with 331 00:17:40.519 --> 00:17:43.440 a totally front end type of application and then say, hey, 332 00:17:43.839 --> 00:17:45.960 I actually think I need to do some of the 333 00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:48.400 stuff on the back end, and then you can add 334 00:17:48.440 --> 00:17:53.079 that capability into that into the application. Whereas with next gys, 335 00:17:53.480 --> 00:17:57.039 that's where you start pun nothing. 336 00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:03.160 It's worse when you bring like solid starts. They but yeah, 337 00:18:03.160 --> 00:18:06.160 I know you mean. And the interesting thing was, so 338 00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:08.400 this guy was saying exactly that, but he was saying, 339 00:18:08.640 --> 00:18:11.119 I don't even need SSR. All I want from start 340 00:18:11.160 --> 00:18:13.559 is just API routes and server functions because I want 341 00:18:13.559 --> 00:18:16.440 to have my essentially my BFF. Right, you're saying you're 342 00:18:16.480 --> 00:18:20.640 connecting to go, Well, what if those things don't have cores? Right, 343 00:18:20.640 --> 00:18:22.839 You're gonna need some sort of BFF to go between 344 00:18:23.119 --> 00:18:26.319 your your UI and your your GO services on the 345 00:18:26.319 --> 00:18:29.359 back end, or clean up whatever. We've all done that 346 00:18:29.400 --> 00:18:33.920 sort of thing. It's basically middleware, right exactly. And so 347 00:18:34.680 --> 00:18:38.440 he wants the middleware ability but doesn't want SSR, which 348 00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:40.319 I thought was an interesting variant. So I gotta go 349 00:18:40.359 --> 00:18:41.880 check with the guys and see if there's some way. 350 00:18:41.759 --> 00:18:44.799 To like, you know, SSR falls. 351 00:18:45.279 --> 00:18:50.200 According to Tanner, that should be the basic approach. So 352 00:18:50.319 --> 00:18:54.279 for example, talking about and we're kind of digressing off 353 00:18:54.279 --> 00:18:59.640 of the original topic, but interesting so the way that 354 00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:06.079 so their their outlook or view on how to work 355 00:19:06.119 --> 00:19:11.759 with React server components. So for next thing, yes, everything 356 00:19:11.920 --> 00:19:15.920 starts at the React server component and the props flow 357 00:19:16.039 --> 00:19:19.400 down from their server, so the rendering always starts on 358 00:19:19.440 --> 00:19:21.880 the server and then at a certain point in time 359 00:19:21.920 --> 00:19:26.359 switches over to the client. What Tenner explained is that 360 00:19:26.519 --> 00:19:32.799 in his approach, you invoke server functions. The server functions 361 00:19:32.839 --> 00:19:36.519 can respond with some data which you render on the client, 362 00:19:37.000 --> 00:19:42.359 or they can actually respond with virtual dam with JSX 363 00:19:42.400 --> 00:19:47.720 as it were, and then that gets directly rendered. 364 00:19:48.400 --> 00:19:51.799 So as the approach is not I don't think one 365 00:19:51.799 --> 00:19:53.799 that I was going to have that, but it's going 366 00:19:53.839 --> 00:19:55.599 to be a fast hopefully a fast follow up to 367 00:19:55.640 --> 00:19:58.160 like a one point one where you can return our 368 00:19:58.440 --> 00:20:02.039 basically r sse uh and then you've got like something 369 00:20:02.079 --> 00:20:03.880 on the client to basically allows you to say, cool, 370 00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:06.519 I got an RC payload and then convert that into 371 00:20:06.559 --> 00:20:09.000 VIDAM just drop that in and that's really really cool. 372 00:20:09.039 --> 00:20:11.960 And I think that's actually like an interesting alternative to 373 00:20:12.119 --> 00:20:16.519 the next JAS model, and I believe that's what remix 374 00:20:16.680 --> 00:20:19.119 is going to do. At least that's what they demonstrated. 375 00:20:19.200 --> 00:20:26.000 Reactn Tanner indicated that he and the remix guys had 376 00:20:26.119 --> 00:20:30.960 similar a similar, apparently a similar take on how to 377 00:20:31.039 --> 00:20:34.000 do these things. Yeah, yeah, it'll be interesting to say. 378 00:20:34.759 --> 00:20:37.440 But going back to the topic at hand, So we 379 00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:40.559 so we were talking about the fact that you can 380 00:20:40.960 --> 00:20:45.039 use next gs as a replacement for Create React app. 381 00:20:45.200 --> 00:20:49.680 I'm just going to say CRA because yeah, you can't 382 00:20:49.759 --> 00:20:52.359 use next js as a replacement for CRA, but you 383 00:20:52.440 --> 00:20:56.160 probably won't, and that there are a lot of organs 384 00:20:56.160 --> 00:20:59.519 you're going to use next gs as a next GS yeah, uh, 385 00:20:59.559 --> 00:21:03.640 and which is fine, but you know, and that there 386 00:21:03.640 --> 00:21:05.559 are a lot of organizations and so first of all, 387 00:21:05.559 --> 00:21:07.440 and there are a lot of people for whom they 388 00:21:07.519 --> 00:21:09.559 just want to play with React and for them, next 389 00:21:09.599 --> 00:21:12.559 gs is too much, too soon. And there are a 390 00:21:12.559 --> 00:21:15.119 lot of organizations that just want to build a client 391 00:21:15.200 --> 00:21:18.799 rendered application, and for them, a full stack type of 392 00:21:18.799 --> 00:21:24.200 a framework is beyond an overkill. It's it's it's a 393 00:21:24.400 --> 00:21:29.240 it's detrimental to their needs. Yeah, they don't want to 394 00:21:29.359 --> 00:21:32.160 do stuff on the back end. They just want the 395 00:21:32.559 --> 00:21:35.200 JavaScript developers to do stuff on the front end. 396 00:21:35.319 --> 00:21:38.559 Yeah, And because if I'm here's a concrete example, if 397 00:21:38.599 --> 00:21:41.799 I'm building like a dashboard and I find some you know, 398 00:21:41.839 --> 00:21:44.039 I'm getting asked by product to put up some really 399 00:21:44.119 --> 00:21:46.880 cool graph and the only thing that I can find 400 00:21:47.039 --> 00:21:49.519 is this one obscure library that does this graph. 401 00:21:49.559 --> 00:21:51.599 And I'm like, yeah, great, awesome, right. 402 00:21:51.759 --> 00:21:56.200 And I drop it in my app in vat land 403 00:21:56.400 --> 00:21:59.119 or in create React app land. That's probably going to 404 00:21:59.240 --> 00:22:01.880 work hundred percent of the time. It's gonna it's gonna 405 00:22:01.920 --> 00:22:04.079 drop in there just fine. But if you drop that 406 00:22:04.119 --> 00:22:07.880 into a next app, and I've seen this quite a bit, actually, 407 00:22:08.319 --> 00:22:12.000 those kind of libraries might invoke or might hit document 408 00:22:12.119 --> 00:22:16.799 or window unconditionally as part of their setup, and those bang, 409 00:22:16.920 --> 00:22:19.759 those blow up an SSR because there's no document, there's 410 00:22:19.759 --> 00:22:21.240 no window on the server. 411 00:22:21.799 --> 00:22:23.519 And so now I've. 412 00:22:23.359 --> 00:22:26.200 Got this awesome thing that I can use, except that 413 00:22:26.240 --> 00:22:28.160 I can't because I'm a next JAS But I'm not 414 00:22:28.279 --> 00:22:31.559 using any of the features of next jas anyway, right, 415 00:22:31.640 --> 00:22:33.920 and so I any end up doing that lazy imports 416 00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:37.279 or craziness or whatever, or hacking your package. 417 00:22:36.880 --> 00:22:40.359 Or yeah, you can't assume just to say, you can't 418 00:22:40.359 --> 00:22:45.759 assume that the third party React up library supports SSR, right, 419 00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:46.960 you cannot assume. 420 00:22:46.680 --> 00:22:48.160 That even in twenty twenty five. 421 00:22:48.279 --> 00:22:52.079 Yes, true, So so I is, And I'm going to 422 00:22:52.200 --> 00:22:54.720 pull up another comment by our friend Burrott here who's 423 00:22:54.960 --> 00:22:56.039 on the live stream. 424 00:22:55.720 --> 00:22:55.880 But. 425 00:22:57.599 --> 00:23:00.200 He's saying, so, yeah, back end teams create the s 426 00:23:00.279 --> 00:23:04.920 APIs the front end and mobile, you know, so they 427 00:23:04.960 --> 00:23:07.160 don't want to deal with the server stuff, which makes sense. 428 00:23:07.559 --> 00:23:10.400 But is so is that the essential of what we're 429 00:23:10.440 --> 00:23:13.599 talking about here is whether or not people want to 430 00:23:13.640 --> 00:23:16.799 worry about SSR or deal with SSR or deal with 431 00:23:16.839 --> 00:23:20.359 the server on the back end. Is that the flexibility 432 00:23:20.359 --> 00:23:22.839 you lose with next JAS that you might get with 433 00:23:22.880 --> 00:23:23.480 something else. 434 00:23:24.599 --> 00:23:26.799 Well, next Das is going to push you to the 435 00:23:26.839 --> 00:23:30.319 ext to the end end game right away, which is here, 436 00:23:30.920 --> 00:23:33.440 you're going to do SSR, You're gonna have server functions, 437 00:23:33.480 --> 00:23:35.880 You're gonna have API stuff, even if you don't need 438 00:23:36.079 --> 00:23:38.400 or want them, you're going to have them, and you're 439 00:23:38.440 --> 00:23:40.680 going to have to play in a compatible you know, 440 00:23:41.039 --> 00:23:45.839 sandbox because of those decisions that we made. Whereas the 441 00:23:46.680 --> 00:23:48.400 unless a hard shift to. 442 00:23:48.400 --> 00:23:50.680 Tan stack here, So tan stack actually has a much 443 00:23:50.920 --> 00:23:57.160 smoother migration from going a full on just spa app 444 00:23:57.440 --> 00:23:59.119 that has a router in it. So you can have 445 00:23:59.200 --> 00:24:03.440 multiple pages, milk pages or routes whatever to a file 446 00:24:03.440 --> 00:24:06.240 based writer where you define those by file names and 447 00:24:06.599 --> 00:24:10.160 it gets a lot easier. And then into start where 448 00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:14.920 you can start to add API requests and AAPI endpoints 449 00:24:14.920 --> 00:24:18.400 and server functions, so you can actually kind of as 450 00:24:18.440 --> 00:24:21.799 you as your application grows up and starts to need 451 00:24:21.880 --> 00:24:24.279 that stuff, then you can start to bring those things in. 452 00:24:24.640 --> 00:24:27.160 And if and if we can disable SSR, it's even 453 00:24:27.279 --> 00:24:29.440 it's an even smoother ramp because you can still have 454 00:24:29.519 --> 00:24:31.880 those kind of funky libraries and stuff, but now you 455 00:24:31.880 --> 00:24:34.000 can also still have a p I, n points and 456 00:24:34.039 --> 00:24:36.319 server functions if you need to have those. 457 00:24:36.400 --> 00:24:38.559 So yeah, so, and I'll. 458 00:24:38.359 --> 00:24:41.759 Say it again. If you're building an e commerce website, 459 00:24:42.519 --> 00:24:47.440 you you must have SSR, yeah, because otherwise you won't 460 00:24:47.559 --> 00:24:52.359 rank well, you won't perform well, and overall it'll be 461 00:24:52.400 --> 00:24:56.240 a bad experience for everybody all around, your users, yourself 462 00:24:56.240 --> 00:24:59.200 and whatnot. If, on the other hand, you're building a 463 00:24:59.319 --> 00:25:03.920 dashboard in front that that say even requires authentication, and 464 00:25:03.960 --> 00:25:07.279 it's in front of all several back end services, there's 465 00:25:07.319 --> 00:25:10.279 a good chance that you just don't need a CISAR. 466 00:25:10.440 --> 00:25:12.759 You don't want a star a SESAR will just make 467 00:25:12.799 --> 00:25:14.319 your life harder and get in the way. 468 00:25:14.599 --> 00:25:15.680 Yeah, exactly. 469 00:25:15.759 --> 00:25:17.839 So and with next yes, you kind of don't have 470 00:25:17.880 --> 00:25:19.839 a choice. You can't just saw whether you like it 471 00:25:19.920 --> 00:25:20.119 or not. 472 00:25:20.319 --> 00:25:21.000 Yeah, exactly. 473 00:25:21.279 --> 00:25:23.119 And here, like I was working at Nike for a 474 00:25:23.160 --> 00:25:27.160 long time or three years, and yeah, our front end 475 00:25:27.160 --> 00:25:30.240 teams they all use next JAS. It was all SSR, 476 00:25:30.799 --> 00:25:34.000 and then our the teams would manage the CMS stuff, 477 00:25:34.079 --> 00:25:36.559 which we all we drove the whole product catalog as 478 00:25:36.599 --> 00:25:37.799 a content management system. 479 00:25:38.079 --> 00:25:39.200 Right, those are all one. 480 00:25:39.160 --> 00:25:42.799 Hundreds and SPA hundreds and SPA you know, all the authors, SPA, 481 00:25:43.160 --> 00:25:45.960 all the all clients side requests, they went through their 482 00:25:45.960 --> 00:25:46.880 own little BFF. 483 00:25:47.480 --> 00:25:53.119 But yeah, so just to clarify because I'm liking kind 484 00:25:53.119 --> 00:25:55.880 of the incremental Yeah, they we're going to add this feature. 485 00:25:55.880 --> 00:25:57.440 We're going to add that feature, you know, right, And 486 00:25:57.480 --> 00:25:59.720 so yeah, if you would never get to the place 487 00:25:59.759 --> 00:26:02.839 where I have to have SSR, right, it's not public 488 00:26:02.839 --> 00:26:05.440 on the web, it's not going to get indexed by Google, 489 00:26:05.960 --> 00:26:08.440 right then, Yeah, it's nice to have the option, But 490 00:26:08.519 --> 00:26:10.799 it also seems to me that if I'm starting a 491 00:26:10.839 --> 00:26:14.839 new application, a lot of times I don't want all 492 00:26:14.880 --> 00:26:16.680 of the bells and whistles in there. I want to 493 00:26:16.799 --> 00:26:19.119 just kind of explore and figure these things out, and 494 00:26:19.160 --> 00:26:21.680 then what you're saying is, then I can turn around 495 00:26:21.680 --> 00:26:25.319 and say, Okay, I know that this app does need SSR, right, 496 00:26:25.359 --> 00:26:27.839 it is going to be public facing. You know, maybe 497 00:26:27.839 --> 00:26:30.400 it backs up onto Shopify if you're doing e commerce, 498 00:26:30.440 --> 00:26:33.240 or it backs up onto and I've seen people do 499 00:26:33.319 --> 00:26:36.920 this right, or it backs up onto some headless cms, right. 500 00:26:37.000 --> 00:26:39.000 But I'm thinking, you know, I do need some of 501 00:26:39.000 --> 00:26:41.559 these other features. Then I can pull those in once 502 00:26:41.599 --> 00:26:44.200 I've kind of gotten the shape of the app figured out, 503 00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:47.799 and I can approach it from that end without complicating 504 00:26:47.880 --> 00:26:50.039 it with all the other things that, yes, something eventually need, 505 00:26:50.319 --> 00:26:52.559 but right today, I just need to figure out what 506 00:26:52.599 --> 00:26:53.440 this thing even looks like. 507 00:26:53.559 --> 00:26:57.039 Yeah, exactly, Yeah, totally yeah, And that's that's what we're 508 00:26:57.039 --> 00:26:59.519 trying to do with this create ts Router app. So 509 00:27:00.119 --> 00:27:03.799 we were saying to folks, cool, you know cra is 510 00:27:03.839 --> 00:27:07.039 now deprecated, and literally you know, that was on Friday 511 00:27:07.119 --> 00:27:10.039 from the team, and then on Monday we dropped this 512 00:27:10.440 --> 00:27:13.920 create ts rider app. And the idea is it'll give 513 00:27:13.960 --> 00:27:17.799 you exactly the same content in the exact same locations, 514 00:27:18.119 --> 00:27:20.920 except that it's built on top of VAT and tan 515 00:27:21.039 --> 00:27:23.920 sac router, so off out of the shelf you get 516 00:27:23.960 --> 00:27:26.079 a router built in, which is what a lot of 517 00:27:26.079 --> 00:27:29.400 people want to add almost right away to their application. 518 00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:34.759 So basically it's compatible with create React app in the 519 00:27:34.839 --> 00:27:39.319 sense that it's a CLI tool that it doesn't require 520 00:27:39.480 --> 00:27:42.880 anything on the back end. What's just totally front end. 521 00:27:43.400 --> 00:27:46.160 I think even much of the command line options and 522 00:27:46.200 --> 00:27:47.640 switches are the same. 523 00:27:47.400 --> 00:27:48.839 As exactly the same yep. 524 00:27:49.119 --> 00:27:53.200 Yeah, And it creates the essentially the same or very 525 00:27:53.240 --> 00:27:56.960 similar or as close as possible, the same file structure. 526 00:27:57.240 --> 00:28:01.519 Yeah, exactly exactly like the app like app dot jsx 527 00:28:01.519 --> 00:28:04.240 file that they tell you or app dot tsx file 528 00:28:04.720 --> 00:28:08.559 isn't exactly the same location. It has exactly the same contents. 529 00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:11.880 It just happens to be like the main. There's also 530 00:28:11.960 --> 00:28:14.400 like so the source app, which is your your component, 531 00:28:14.880 --> 00:28:17.319 and then there's source main, which in the original CRA 532 00:28:17.599 --> 00:28:19.839 was basically a little thing that did the you know, 533 00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:23.839 the render root and all that stuff. This one just 534 00:28:23.880 --> 00:28:27.799 adds in tansack rider into that and then makes that 535 00:28:27.880 --> 00:28:29.400 the app your home route. 536 00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:30.480 Yeah. 537 00:28:30.519 --> 00:28:35.160 And uh, also, instead of being built on top of 538 00:28:35.200 --> 00:28:38.079 what packet's built on top of VAT because we are 539 00:28:38.079 --> 00:28:39.400 in twenty twenty five. 540 00:28:40.160 --> 00:28:42.480 Right exactly, no more nightmares. 541 00:28:42.599 --> 00:28:45.559 Yeah, and everybody literally like that was a lot of 542 00:28:45.599 --> 00:28:47.720 the reaction to all the stuff that happened with the 543 00:28:47.720 --> 00:28:51.440 deprecation of Cray and then the follow up blog and 544 00:28:51.720 --> 00:28:54.599 the blog, and then also the documentation that basically says, 545 00:28:54.799 --> 00:28:58.000 you know, it kind of alludes to like you can 546 00:28:58.079 --> 00:29:00.960 use VT, but our recommended thing is you use a framework, 547 00:29:01.039 --> 00:29:04.960 and the frameworks include next Day, Yes and Remax. 548 00:29:05.039 --> 00:29:06.000 But I really felt bad. 549 00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:09.440 I knew that, like there would be a massive pain 550 00:29:09.480 --> 00:29:12.400 point here for folks that were trying to learn or 551 00:29:12.480 --> 00:29:15.000 just expecting that, you know, their workflow was, Hey, I'm 552 00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:17.519 going to spin up a SPA. I'm going to use 553 00:29:17.559 --> 00:29:19.559 create React app. I no, it's not the greatest, but 554 00:29:19.640 --> 00:29:22.519 like it works for me. I need a replacement and that. 555 00:29:23.160 --> 00:29:25.079 And there was nobody who is coming out with a 556 00:29:25.119 --> 00:29:27.480 replacement like that, and so I was like, cool, let's 557 00:29:27.480 --> 00:29:28.680 deal it with es Rader because it's. 558 00:29:28.599 --> 00:29:33.200 A good thing. We literally had this exact situation where 559 00:29:33.240 --> 00:29:39.000 I work. We were starting a new relatively small project 560 00:29:39.160 --> 00:29:43.920 React project that had these essential requirements, and I literally 561 00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:46.640 and I kind of told them, hey, you know, these 562 00:29:46.640 --> 00:29:49.519 are the technologies you need to use. You need to use, VT, 563 00:29:49.640 --> 00:29:54.519 you need to use and so forth. And I literally 564 00:29:55.160 --> 00:29:59.240 came to them and said, hey, there's this new tool 565 00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:06.440 that dropped. It's called create ts Router app CTA. 566 00:30:07.279 --> 00:30:08.799 Use that called action. 567 00:30:09.279 --> 00:30:13.200 Yeah, and literally, and you know why messed around because 568 00:30:13.240 --> 00:30:16.440 they were doing VAT directly and they ran into all 569 00:30:16.519 --> 00:30:18.960 sorts of issues. And of course they immediately ran into 570 00:30:19.000 --> 00:30:21.400 the problem of of hey, which router are we going 571 00:30:21.480 --> 00:30:23.200 to use and how are we going to configure it 572 00:30:23.480 --> 00:30:27.599 and whatnot. So I said, hey, you know, just use this. 573 00:30:27.960 --> 00:30:33.079 Yeah, so right away we supported multiple ways you could 574 00:30:33.079 --> 00:30:36.039 do routing. So there with CRA, you have this like 575 00:30:36.640 --> 00:30:38.160 you give it the name of the app that you want, 576 00:30:38.359 --> 00:30:41.359 you know, app, my app, my dash app order, and 577 00:30:41.400 --> 00:30:43.359 then you can optually give it a template and that 578 00:30:43.400 --> 00:30:47.480 temple would be either would generally be typescript that will 579 00:30:47.480 --> 00:30:51.359 give you the typescript flavor of CR And so what 580 00:30:51.400 --> 00:30:53.720 we did with CTA is we have it so a 581 00:30:53.799 --> 00:30:56.240 template you could say typescript and get exactly the same 582 00:30:56.279 --> 00:30:58.680 kind of deal. But you can also do template as 583 00:30:58.759 --> 00:31:02.440 file router, and we would give you a typescript app 584 00:31:03.039 --> 00:31:06.720 same thing, but defined using routes with a file router, 585 00:31:06.880 --> 00:31:09.319 So if you wanted to start moving towards a file 586 00:31:09.400 --> 00:31:13.720 routing setup, this is just a really nice segue into that. 587 00:31:14.559 --> 00:31:18.480 So the file router basically means that the router automatically 588 00:31:18.519 --> 00:31:22.400 matches your directory structure in terms of the pages that 589 00:31:22.400 --> 00:31:23.279 you're using. 590 00:31:23.319 --> 00:31:27.039 Right exactly, you get like a sourcelash slash sorts slash 591 00:31:27.240 --> 00:31:30.559 source slash routes, and then within that all the files 592 00:31:30.599 --> 00:31:34.960 and directories define the structure of your URLs, and different 593 00:31:35.079 --> 00:31:37.960 routers do it different ways. You know, next JS has 594 00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:41.720 their syntax for it. It varies between pages, Rider, nap Writer, 595 00:31:42.160 --> 00:31:44.640 Remax has like, I don't know, like three different ways 596 00:31:44.640 --> 00:31:47.599 you can do it, and TS writer has a couple 597 00:31:47.599 --> 00:31:50.400 of a couple of flavors, but they're they're fairly similar. 598 00:31:51.319 --> 00:31:54.519 So for those of our listeners who don't know, again, 599 00:31:54.599 --> 00:31:57.079 I highly recommend listening to our episode that we did 600 00:31:57.119 --> 00:31:59.319 with Tenor Lindsley at the beginning of the year where 601 00:31:59.359 --> 00:32:01.920 we talked that length about TS router and why it's 602 00:32:01.920 --> 00:32:06.079 so great. The thing that makes it so great is 603 00:32:06.119 --> 00:32:11.559 that it's type safe, yes, which means at the simplest 604 00:32:11.640 --> 00:32:14.759 level means that if you put in a wrong route, 605 00:32:15.720 --> 00:32:19.480 you'll get the reds quickly, yeah, telling you that, and 606 00:32:19.559 --> 00:32:22.960 you'll get automatic completion for routes and it just works 607 00:32:23.279 --> 00:32:27.359 and taking it to the next stage. It also gives 608 00:32:27.400 --> 00:32:32.759 you type safe URL parameters or querry parameters, so you 609 00:32:32.799 --> 00:32:37.200 can actually store states safely in the URL itself, which 610 00:32:37.319 --> 00:32:40.000 is I think awesome because that means you can actually 611 00:32:40.359 --> 00:32:42.920 copy the URL and send it to somebody and they 612 00:32:42.960 --> 00:32:45.880 will be in the same place in the app. That 613 00:32:46.400 --> 00:32:49.279 you don't just share the app, you share your state 614 00:32:49.359 --> 00:32:51.599 in the app, which is super useful. 615 00:32:51.920 --> 00:32:55.480 Yeah, And so one of the really really in kind 616 00:32:55.480 --> 00:32:58.279 of building on that, last week we released a tan 617 00:32:58.359 --> 00:33:03.279 sac rider for Solid that exactly yeah, exactly the same 618 00:33:04.079 --> 00:33:08.720 API surface between the two. Uh you know solidifide I guess, 619 00:33:08.759 --> 00:33:12.799 so I guess. And then this this week we actually 620 00:33:12.799 --> 00:33:17.599 released a CLI update, so create cus Rider app got better. 621 00:33:18.119 --> 00:33:21.200 So now you can actually give it framework Solid as 622 00:33:21.880 --> 00:33:23.640 part of the command line and it it'll actually build 623 00:33:23.640 --> 00:33:26.599 a Solid app with exactly the same contacts, except with 624 00:33:26.680 --> 00:33:29.640 a spinning React logo. It's now a spinning Solid logo, 625 00:33:30.559 --> 00:33:32.480 but pretty much the same thing. And then it also 626 00:33:32.559 --> 00:33:35.200 has two other really cool new features, ones called add 627 00:33:35.240 --> 00:33:38.200 ons that will allow you to add on things like 628 00:33:38.319 --> 00:33:42.720 centry and clerk and tan stack state to our store 629 00:33:42.759 --> 00:33:47.880 to manage the state management tandstack query everybody's favorite, React Query, 630 00:33:49.200 --> 00:33:51.319 a bunch of integrations which is really cool, and then 631 00:33:51.359 --> 00:33:53.519 also some really cool and a cool AI feature. 632 00:33:54.039 --> 00:33:55.759 By the way, I don't know if you do this 633 00:33:56.079 --> 00:33:59.880 or not, but you should when you give the people, 634 00:34:00.160 --> 00:34:03.359 when you give developers the option to install ten Sta 635 00:34:03.480 --> 00:34:07.559 query in parentheses, you should probably say React query because 636 00:34:07.559 --> 00:34:09.440 that's the way a lot of people still know it. 637 00:34:09.760 --> 00:34:10.400 Yeah, I know. 638 00:34:11.079 --> 00:34:13.440 Actually, like as a description when you're when you're going 639 00:34:13.440 --> 00:34:15.960 through the kind of there's you can either go uya 640 00:34:16.039 --> 00:34:17.639 the command line or you can just kind of just 641 00:34:17.800 --> 00:34:19.960 get it like a full on like experience or that 642 00:34:20.039 --> 00:34:22.440 we prompt you for the name and all that, and 643 00:34:22.480 --> 00:34:25.000 when you kind of glide over it in that section, 644 00:34:25.079 --> 00:34:28.519 it actually says, you know, it's reacting, it's rec query, 645 00:34:28.599 --> 00:34:29.559 So I. 646 00:34:29.480 --> 00:34:29.920 Know what you mean. 647 00:34:29.920 --> 00:34:32.320 Though it's weird things like tanzac query, but it makes 648 00:34:32.320 --> 00:34:34.079 more sense as you start to think about what Tanzak 649 00:34:34.199 --> 00:34:36.519 is trying to do, which is to have like a 650 00:34:36.559 --> 00:34:41.599 cross platform set of libraries that work across like react 651 00:34:41.960 --> 00:34:43.599 and solid and view and all that. 652 00:34:43.719 --> 00:34:46.239 It makes more sense to them for sure. 653 00:34:46.760 --> 00:34:49.599 By the way, you should add another option right now, 654 00:34:49.679 --> 00:34:50.920 which is react scan. 655 00:34:51.079 --> 00:34:53.079 I think, I know, I know, I was gonna I 656 00:34:53.119 --> 00:34:56.079 was gonna do a fast follow this morning and that reacts. 657 00:34:56.559 --> 00:34:59.679 It's really cool. Aiden's doing something aid. 658 00:34:59.639 --> 00:35:02.360 On the show recently as well. Yeah, if we're having 659 00:35:02.360 --> 00:35:05.000 all the cool people on the show, and we really 660 00:35:05.199 --> 00:35:07.679 need to get Ryan Carniato on the show again. 661 00:35:07.760 --> 00:35:09.400 Oh yeah, I need to get Ryan back for sure. 662 00:35:10.039 --> 00:35:12.519 I've been speaking with him. He's kind of busy, but 663 00:35:12.599 --> 00:35:13.760 I'm sure we'll find a way. 664 00:35:13.800 --> 00:35:15.199 I gotta say, we're getting a little bit of a 665 00:35:15.239 --> 00:35:19.760 PNW brain trust up here, got Aiden, you know, starting 666 00:35:19.800 --> 00:35:20.159 to get. 667 00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:21.719 Some some cool folks coming up with the PNW. 668 00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:25.639 Yeah right. Ryan's always busy, but he's always such a 669 00:35:25.679 --> 00:35:26.559 delight just to talk to. 670 00:35:26.800 --> 00:35:29.280 Oh my god, he knows everything like here't like gone 671 00:35:29.280 --> 00:35:31.960 into like every single framework, understands like in detail. 672 00:35:32.320 --> 00:35:35.360 Yeah, oh yeah, mister he's the CEO of Signals and 673 00:35:35.400 --> 00:35:36.599 mister Frameworks. 674 00:35:36.920 --> 00:35:41.320 Yeah. I did want to kind of ask about with create, 675 00:35:41.519 --> 00:35:44.880 tan Stack or ts router app man, I'm going to 676 00:35:44.920 --> 00:35:46.000 trip over that every time I. 677 00:35:45.960 --> 00:35:50.360 Say, I know, wish we could get that create tansec app, right. 678 00:35:50.679 --> 00:35:54.280 But so so just kind of walk me through. Okay, 679 00:35:54.639 --> 00:35:57.880 you know, looking at stuff, I decide this is what 680 00:35:57.920 --> 00:36:00.320 I want to use, Like, well, what's the experience it's 681 00:36:00.360 --> 00:36:03.960 like as I build my app? Right, So I just 682 00:36:04.039 --> 00:36:06.360 use the command line to to create the app and 683 00:36:06.400 --> 00:36:10.920 then you know, I advance. What does that look like? 684 00:36:11.320 --> 00:36:13.719 Yeah, so the command line at this point is a 685 00:36:13.760 --> 00:36:16.880 straight just builder, and then it's passive. 686 00:36:16.920 --> 00:36:17.480 It's gone. 687 00:36:17.719 --> 00:36:20.239 You know, you're you're on your own at that point 688 00:36:20.840 --> 00:36:23.400 to add new stuff if you haven't. So that's why 689 00:36:23.440 --> 00:36:25.400 I kind of added that ad on stuff is we 690 00:36:25.519 --> 00:36:27.559 wanted to just make it really easy to just like 691 00:36:27.920 --> 00:36:30.840 set if you're in a new shad CN for example, right, 692 00:36:31.440 --> 00:36:33.440 so many people want to do that. I just wanted 693 00:36:33.440 --> 00:36:35.280 to add an ability to say, hey, I want chatsy 694 00:36:35.400 --> 00:36:38.239 in and an automatically installs tail end automatically installs chatsy 695 00:36:38.400 --> 00:36:40.639 in and gets you up and running. 696 00:36:40.360 --> 00:36:44.079 And which you also need to say which set chatsand 697 00:36:44.159 --> 00:36:45.480 components you want to use? 698 00:36:45.920 --> 00:36:49.119 You do that later, you'd say, you know, and you 699 00:36:49.320 --> 00:36:51.719 use their CLI to add components. But the app that 700 00:36:51.719 --> 00:36:56.599 you create is compatible with their their gotcha, although it 701 00:36:56.679 --> 00:36:59.800 is the Canary build because the appzon Tailwind v four 702 00:37:00.599 --> 00:37:04.199 and only the Canary build of Shatsien is U currently 703 00:37:04.199 --> 00:37:04.800 supporting that. 704 00:37:05.719 --> 00:37:07.519 Yeah, that's another person we need to get on, and 705 00:37:07.559 --> 00:37:11.599 is we need to get what's his name from? 706 00:37:13.239 --> 00:37:13.679 Oh that? 707 00:37:13.800 --> 00:37:17.119 Oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah right. I feel bad 708 00:37:17.119 --> 00:37:19.480 I'm forgetting this is real fun. I talk with him 709 00:37:19.480 --> 00:37:21.079 over at rayt Comf's he's a hoot. 710 00:37:21.199 --> 00:37:26.679 Yeah yeah, but uh yeah so so so literally I 711 00:37:26.880 --> 00:37:30.599 it it kind of auto rejects you to use the parlor. 712 00:37:30.760 --> 00:37:34.280 Yeah yeahct A lot of a lot of folks are like, oh, 713 00:37:34.320 --> 00:37:36.519 it's by default ejected. 714 00:37:36.599 --> 00:37:39.719 I'm like yes, yes, so so. 715 00:37:39.719 --> 00:37:41.880 Then I decide I want these other things, right, So 716 00:37:41.880 --> 00:37:44.360 it's like I didn't put in tense dea query now 717 00:37:44.400 --> 00:37:47.119 and so now I want it. It's pretty easy to 718 00:37:47.239 --> 00:37:50.239 just add in and it just is happy. 719 00:37:50.400 --> 00:37:50.599 Yeah. 720 00:37:50.639 --> 00:37:52.559 I mean you could if you wanted to just see 721 00:37:52.679 --> 00:37:55.400 kind of how it's done, Like you can go and 722 00:37:55.440 --> 00:37:58.079 spin up another app and another dripory and add that 723 00:37:58.159 --> 00:38:00.119 in and be like, oh, okay, I see where it's 724 00:38:00.400 --> 00:38:04.320 It's basically two files. And then what we do is 725 00:38:04.360 --> 00:38:07.320 this is actually kind of it was driven my knee really. 726 00:38:07.360 --> 00:38:11.679 But when we install something like React sorry with reactquer 727 00:38:11.800 --> 00:38:14.400 or tanse querier, however we want to say it certainly, 728 00:38:14.400 --> 00:38:16.480 we do the INFRASTARFF, which is to go and build 729 00:38:16.480 --> 00:38:18.880 a provider, build a client, and then put the provider 730 00:38:18.920 --> 00:38:21.079 on it. But we also build a demo page so 731 00:38:21.079 --> 00:38:24.000 you can see how it's used in either you know, 732 00:38:24.039 --> 00:38:27.079 React or Solid. But everything that we do that's a demo. 733 00:38:27.320 --> 00:38:31.159 Anything will go and put demo in the file name 734 00:38:31.440 --> 00:38:33.559 and that way. Later on if you're just like, hey, 735 00:38:33.599 --> 00:38:35.679 I would just want to sweep it out of my 736 00:38:35.760 --> 00:38:38.199 app because I don't need that, then you can just 737 00:38:38.280 --> 00:38:42.480 literally like do a fine demo star x r XRM 738 00:38:42.840 --> 00:38:45.000 and it's gone, and you know you could you have 739 00:38:45.039 --> 00:38:46.920 to like, you know, change it to the routes are 740 00:38:47.119 --> 00:38:49.159 you know, like header just room from a head or two. 741 00:38:49.159 --> 00:38:51.480 But it's very very clean. I want to make sure 742 00:38:51.480 --> 00:38:54.519 that like as we added like boilerplate code in it 743 00:38:54.559 --> 00:38:59.000 was it was identified solidly as like this is boilerplate. 744 00:38:59.639 --> 00:39:01.159 Oh yeah, that's that's awesome. 745 00:39:01.639 --> 00:39:01.880 Yeah. 746 00:39:01.960 --> 00:39:04.320 I hate it when boiler plates are like the kind 747 00:39:04.320 --> 00:39:07.679 of integrated all over the place and it's like the mass. 748 00:39:07.719 --> 00:39:11.000 By the way, one more point about ten stack router. 749 00:39:11.239 --> 00:39:15.920 I believe that in most cases you will want to 750 00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:19.360 use the file bass file based routing. Is that correct? 751 00:39:19.559 --> 00:39:24.760 Yeah, it does auto splitting of bundle splitting, so that's 752 00:39:24.760 --> 00:39:26.360 a nice advantage right there. 753 00:39:27.920 --> 00:39:30.360 So unless you have a good reason, that's the way 754 00:39:30.400 --> 00:39:31.679 that you should probably want to go. 755 00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:33.039 Yeah. 756 00:39:33.400 --> 00:39:36.840 Cool, it's not the default because of the CRA connection, 757 00:39:37.480 --> 00:39:39.599 and that's wanting to like really give you that CRA 758 00:39:39.719 --> 00:39:42.320 experience out of the box. But I would strongly recommend 759 00:39:43.199 --> 00:39:45.199 starting with a fire Runner. But it's not a hard 760 00:39:45.239 --> 00:39:49.119 migration literally it is, you know, it's a couple of 761 00:39:49.159 --> 00:39:51.840 lines that can fig and then just moving some files around. 762 00:39:53.000 --> 00:39:55.840 Yeah, but why not start the right place? Yah? 763 00:39:55.920 --> 00:39:56.440 Yeah, for sure. 764 00:39:56.480 --> 00:39:59.119 But I'm just saying, like, it's not like you're stuck 765 00:39:59.400 --> 00:40:01.400 if you if you create like a code runner app, 766 00:40:01.559 --> 00:40:03.840 you're not stuck at that. You can you can actually 767 00:40:03.920 --> 00:40:07.440 work your way up the chain, which is not going 768 00:40:07.440 --> 00:40:09.320 back to that jazz thying. That is not an option there. 769 00:40:09.320 --> 00:40:11.119 It's like you kind of you start at the end 770 00:40:11.679 --> 00:40:15.079 and to start the most most advanced setup for sure. 771 00:40:15.800 --> 00:40:18.719 So one thing I'm wondering is it seems like you know, 772 00:40:18.760 --> 00:40:22.920 you're talking about it like you're contributing to create a 773 00:40:23.119 --> 00:40:24.840 ct I'm just going to say CTA, and then I 774 00:40:24.920 --> 00:40:28.800 market lost. You know, you're you're contributing to CTA. You're 775 00:40:28.840 --> 00:40:31.920 pretty involved. You know, you've got some courses. So what's 776 00:40:31.920 --> 00:40:35.239 your relationship with with tan Stack? Are you working for 777 00:40:35.280 --> 00:40:38.599 them or you just a fanboy or you know, I 778 00:40:38.639 --> 00:40:41.840 contribute to whatever or yeah, I'm just curious, like where 779 00:40:41.880 --> 00:40:42.679 where do you land here? 780 00:40:42.880 --> 00:40:44.920 It was a new Year's resolution of mind to get 781 00:40:44.960 --> 00:40:48.880 more intimately involved in open source. Like I was noticing 782 00:40:48.920 --> 00:40:50.880 as I was going from a conference conference and you 783 00:40:51.000 --> 00:40:55.119 kind of get like the influencer folks and the talkers, 784 00:40:55.480 --> 00:40:57.719 and then there was the OSS folks, and I'm like, 785 00:40:57.880 --> 00:41:00.719 I kind of groove vibe more with the SS folks 786 00:41:00.719 --> 00:41:03.239 and I want to be part of a project like that. 787 00:41:03.760 --> 00:41:08.079 And the one the project that spoke to me was 788 00:41:08.079 --> 00:41:11.679 was tan Stack. So I started, I guess, yeah, really 789 00:41:11.719 --> 00:41:15.239 just in beginning of the month, it'd be kind of like, hey, Tanner, 790 00:41:15.320 --> 00:41:16.880 you know, can I can I contribute on this? And 791 00:41:16.880 --> 00:41:18.559 He's like cool, yeah, you know, we got some docs. 792 00:41:18.559 --> 00:41:20.400 So I went through the docks and all that, and 793 00:41:20.440 --> 00:41:24.920 then it really picked up when on I Guess Friday 794 00:41:24.920 --> 00:41:27.480 a couple of weeks ago, I was like, Okay, we 795 00:41:27.559 --> 00:41:30.519 need a replacement for a CRA that gives you a 796 00:41:30.559 --> 00:41:32.159 CRA style experience. 797 00:41:32.199 --> 00:41:34.719 And I pitched it to Tanner and I'm like he's like, okay, yeah, 798 00:41:34.840 --> 00:41:35.280 build it. 799 00:41:35.320 --> 00:41:38.280 And so literally I built it in like one dot 800 00:41:38.280 --> 00:41:40.239 O or it was zero dot one in like three 801 00:41:40.280 --> 00:41:45.079 hours and then he's like, that's awesome, let's go and 802 00:41:45.079 --> 00:41:48.079 and that that's it. I mean basically I was working 803 00:41:48.119 --> 00:41:50.119 on it pretty much almost full time last week, which 804 00:41:50.119 --> 00:41:52.119 is probably not great because I don't really get paid 805 00:41:52.159 --> 00:41:56.400 all that much. But yeah, like adding the it was 806 00:41:56.480 --> 00:41:59.920 really fun. Adding in that add on stuff, the AI integration, 807 00:42:00.519 --> 00:42:01.280 that was really fun. 808 00:42:04.719 --> 00:42:06.880 You know, our kids out of school, she's you. 809 00:42:06.920 --> 00:42:09.119 Know, they're off on their own, you know, an apartment 810 00:42:09.239 --> 00:42:12.840 or whatever, and you know, she's got shows to watch 811 00:42:12.840 --> 00:42:15.400 and everything. I can just like hang out code and 812 00:42:15.480 --> 00:42:17.400 I actually I'll code a lot when we're watching TV. 813 00:42:17.480 --> 00:42:19.559 And I was like, wait, a suit are these people again? 814 00:42:19.679 --> 00:42:22.360 Like you have been you have been paying attention, you 815 00:42:22.440 --> 00:42:24.079 have no idea who cares? 816 00:42:24.119 --> 00:42:26.639 Like whatever, Now what does Cita built on? 817 00:42:26.880 --> 00:42:29.159 By the way, what do you mean? 818 00:42:29.199 --> 00:42:32.599 Like like you quoted it. What did you code it in? 819 00:42:32.960 --> 00:42:37.480 Well, it's typescript, it's a node package. It's it uses 820 00:42:37.559 --> 00:42:44.280 Commander for the art processing. It uses uh clark for prompts. 821 00:42:44.360 --> 00:42:46.239 It seems to be the new hotness, and I agree 822 00:42:46.239 --> 00:42:47.000 because it is. 823 00:42:47.360 --> 00:42:51.199 It is really cool. Actually, it's really great. It uses 824 00:42:51.239 --> 00:42:52.800 e j s for a lot of the templating. 825 00:42:53.639 --> 00:42:56.679 So we we have a lot of like templates where 826 00:42:56.719 --> 00:43:00.239 our files like depending on the combinatorics of what you've 827 00:43:00.239 --> 00:43:04.199 asked for code router, file, router, you know this and that, 828 00:43:04.400 --> 00:43:06.440 tailwind versus not versus. 829 00:43:06.199 --> 00:43:07.159 You know, all that kind of stuff. 830 00:43:07.280 --> 00:43:11.159 We need like special like changes in the actual like 831 00:43:11.239 --> 00:43:13.320 code that we write, so we use EJS for that. 832 00:43:14.800 --> 00:43:19.960 And then just recently I added the MCP stuff, so 833 00:43:20.320 --> 00:43:23.360 the MCP server and then also express. 834 00:43:23.719 --> 00:43:27.559 So yeah, so you mentioned MCP, and I think that's 835 00:43:27.639 --> 00:43:30.239 a really cool thing to talk about. 836 00:43:30.400 --> 00:43:31.760 Yeah, I'm really psyched about it. 837 00:43:32.480 --> 00:43:35.679 So I don't think you know what that is chuck. 838 00:43:36.400 --> 00:43:41.159 Nope, Okay, Well remember TRON it's the Master control program, 839 00:43:41.239 --> 00:43:45.440 not just Actually I thought that was one is when 840 00:43:45.440 --> 00:43:48.159 I first heard it, because I remember like way back, 841 00:43:48.679 --> 00:43:52.280 I don't know, like late twenty twenty four Anthropic came 842 00:43:52.360 --> 00:43:55.960 up with this idea of this model context provider. So 843 00:43:56.000 --> 00:43:59.559 it's a standard that you can write to and there's 844 00:43:59.559 --> 00:44:02.679 two different protocols and I'll get to that in a second, 845 00:44:02.760 --> 00:44:06.400 that you can then give claw. At the time, the 846 00:44:06.400 --> 00:44:08.239 Claude desktop was the only thing that supported this. 847 00:44:08.320 --> 00:44:09.239 But you could tell. 848 00:44:09.039 --> 00:44:12.079 Claude Desktop, hey, cool, I've got this MCP server over here, 849 00:44:12.400 --> 00:44:14.239 and that MCP server will give you a set of 850 00:44:14.280 --> 00:44:18.559 tools and then anytime then they're self identifying tools, and 851 00:44:18.599 --> 00:44:22.199 then anytime it wants to do something like you maybe 852 00:44:22.280 --> 00:44:24.519 give it a tool for like change the hue lighting 853 00:44:24.599 --> 00:44:29.440 my house, or you know, make coffee or go through 854 00:44:29.440 --> 00:44:32.599 this file system. Actually, most of it was like database 855 00:44:32.599 --> 00:44:36.079 integrations early on was like kind of okay, here's here's 856 00:44:36.079 --> 00:44:38.880 a bunch of tools for a Postcrest database. Yeah, I 857 00:44:38.880 --> 00:44:41.000 can list tables, I can run a query all that. 858 00:44:41.159 --> 00:44:44.519 Yeah, and playing with building tools. I just didn't know that. 859 00:44:44.800 --> 00:44:45.639 Yeah. 860 00:44:45.679 --> 00:44:49.760 So the packages up those tools as well as resources 861 00:44:49.800 --> 00:44:51.679 and a really nice interface. 862 00:44:52.079 --> 00:44:56.239 So a question about that, So is MCP mostly about 863 00:44:56.519 --> 00:45:06.000 exposing capabilities or is it mostly about expanding the model itself, 864 00:45:06.199 --> 00:45:10.000 like with domain specific knowledge that might not be contained 865 00:45:10.039 --> 00:45:12.400 within the model B. 866 00:45:13.039 --> 00:45:17.519 The latter, I would say, yeah, so expanding the reach 867 00:45:17.559 --> 00:45:22.199 of the model usually into your own Yeah, your own space, 868 00:45:22.239 --> 00:45:25.840 because you're running the server like literally on your own machine, 869 00:45:26.440 --> 00:45:29.679 and so it's actually like it has access to everything 870 00:45:29.719 --> 00:45:32.199 inside of your intrenest So the. 871 00:45:32.239 --> 00:45:35.679 Model, maybe not Claude would have access to obviously. 872 00:45:35.320 --> 00:45:38.880 So the model was original. Sorry Chuck, just one second 873 00:45:39.119 --> 00:45:40.880 because I need to I want to better understand this. 874 00:45:41.000 --> 00:45:45.599 So the model was essentially trained on some global data whatever. 875 00:45:46.519 --> 00:45:50.960 But you want to ask questions that are pertinent to 876 00:45:51.400 --> 00:45:55.960 your data. But obviously your data is not part of 877 00:45:56.000 --> 00:46:04.280 the model. So MCP helps you do that by you 878 00:46:04.360 --> 00:46:10.280 expose your data to the model through this API. Obviously 879 00:46:10.320 --> 00:46:13.599 it's totally private because your data doesn't become part of 880 00:46:13.719 --> 00:46:16.559 the actual model. It's just an extension to that. 881 00:46:16.920 --> 00:46:20.719 Exactly, yes, one hundred percent. And the way that you 882 00:46:20.840 --> 00:46:23.119 do that is you give it tools, which are really 883 00:46:23.159 --> 00:46:27.519 just functions. Those functions can take parameters, right, and so 884 00:46:27.920 --> 00:46:29.960 you had two different ways of doing this in the past. 885 00:46:30.000 --> 00:46:33.079 You had the used to be that you just create 886 00:46:33.119 --> 00:46:35.840 a massive system prompt like hey, I want you to 887 00:46:35.840 --> 00:46:39.840 give product recommendations for our products, like you're an e 888 00:46:39.840 --> 00:46:43.320 commerce company. You take literally all your products and drop 889 00:46:43.360 --> 00:46:45.519 them into the system context and be like, here are 890 00:46:45.599 --> 00:46:47.199 our products when you recommend them. 891 00:46:47.239 --> 00:46:48.119 Here they are. 892 00:46:48.320 --> 00:46:50.920 But let's just say that you've got a massive product catalog, 893 00:46:51.639 --> 00:46:52.920 Like how do you handle that? 894 00:46:53.079 --> 00:46:56.239 Like, so what you're doing. You could give the AI 895 00:46:56.840 --> 00:46:57.679 a search tool. 896 00:46:58.360 --> 00:47:01.239 Hey, given these parameters, you know, uh sneak your size 897 00:47:01.320 --> 00:47:03.920 or whatever, you know, give me back a list of products, 898 00:47:04.360 --> 00:47:08.440 and then it's it's a much better communication with the AI. 899 00:47:08.559 --> 00:47:10.679 The AI can then go, oh, okay, I see if 900 00:47:10.679 --> 00:47:15.000 the person wants like size eleven shoes for running, I'm 901 00:47:15.000 --> 00:47:17.679 going to run your search tool, and you're going to 902 00:47:17.719 --> 00:47:20.079 give me back, Jason with a list of products, and 903 00:47:20.119 --> 00:47:22.360 then I'll be able to get then go and give 904 00:47:22.360 --> 00:47:23.639 them recommendations. 905 00:47:23.880 --> 00:47:26.679 Yeah, it's in the AI parlance, what you're talking about 906 00:47:26.800 --> 00:47:34.079 is retrieval augmented generation, and so essentially, yeah, it's smart 907 00:47:34.159 --> 00:47:36.840 enough to be able to retrieve the data and then 908 00:47:38.199 --> 00:47:43.360 essentially augment its own response with what it got or 909 00:47:43.360 --> 00:47:48.159 what it retrieved from from the other end. But when 910 00:47:48.199 --> 00:47:50.559 you're talking about tools, a lot of times too, it's 911 00:47:50.760 --> 00:47:53.880 here's a function to update my Google calendar, or here's 912 00:47:53.920 --> 00:47:57.440 a function to send an email or and so it's both. 913 00:47:58.840 --> 00:48:01.199 You can make when you're talkings and you can also 914 00:48:01.199 --> 00:48:02.559 do queries right right. 915 00:48:02.760 --> 00:48:05.880 And so yeah, I mean, you know, and there are 916 00:48:05.880 --> 00:48:09.119 other RAG tools, you know, but yeah, this is one 917 00:48:09.119 --> 00:48:12.119 way of doing RAG. But it does both. You can 918 00:48:12.159 --> 00:48:14.639 add capabilities as well. So if it can touch an 919 00:48:14.679 --> 00:48:17.079 API somewhere, it can make things happen. And that's what 920 00:48:17.119 --> 00:48:19.760 you're talking about, like with your hue lights or your 921 00:48:19.920 --> 00:48:23.199 your other home automation stuff or you know, stuff over 922 00:48:23.199 --> 00:48:27.000 the internet where you need to make things happen. It's 923 00:48:27.000 --> 00:48:30.639 not retrieving data necessarily anymore. It's actually causing an effect 924 00:48:30.679 --> 00:48:31.880 somewhere and doing anything. 925 00:48:32.920 --> 00:48:38.000 And MCP is basically a standard way to achieve this functionality. 926 00:48:37.719 --> 00:48:41.480 Right, So there's two different methods that you can use 927 00:48:41.679 --> 00:48:46.840 for building MCP server or communicating the protocol underneath it 928 00:48:46.840 --> 00:48:49.480 would be two different kind of transports. 929 00:48:49.559 --> 00:48:50.239 One is. 930 00:48:52.320 --> 00:48:56.079 Standard io, so basically you run this app and then 931 00:48:56.119 --> 00:48:59.480 you start you know, literally standard in. You give a 932 00:48:59.559 --> 00:49:02.119 Jason Blob saying this is my request for a tool 933 00:49:02.159 --> 00:49:06.480 or whatever, and then standard out it responds with whatever 934 00:49:06.480 --> 00:49:09.599 the data is, which is cool up to the point 935 00:49:09.599 --> 00:49:11.559 where you're like, wait a second, how do I actually, 936 00:49:11.719 --> 00:49:15.119 if I'm writing my MCP server on standard Io, how 937 00:49:15.119 --> 00:49:19.159 do I debug this thing? Like I usually use standard 938 00:49:19.199 --> 00:49:21.400 in Standard out for my debugging. Like so you know, 939 00:49:21.679 --> 00:49:24.000 I guess you you know you're limited to standard or something. 940 00:49:24.039 --> 00:49:26.840 But like, I just find that kind of Jankye I've 941 00:49:26.840 --> 00:49:28.559 never been, like you a huge fan. 942 00:49:29.199 --> 00:49:30.280 Yeah, all right exactly. 943 00:49:31.400 --> 00:49:33.480 And then the other way, what I think is actually 944 00:49:33.480 --> 00:49:36.400 a little bit cleaner is they have an SSE transport 945 00:49:36.760 --> 00:49:41.280 or service service set Events transport, where you're basically running 946 00:49:41.320 --> 00:49:44.679 a server. Now you have a ur L and the 947 00:49:45.039 --> 00:49:48.880 well clawed desktop if that's the MCP agent that you 948 00:49:48.960 --> 00:49:52.840 choose to use, would then connect to that URL and 949 00:49:52.880 --> 00:49:56.960 then you can talk via a continuous connection using service 950 00:49:56.960 --> 00:49:57.599 set events. 951 00:49:59.000 --> 00:49:59.360 Yeah. 952 00:49:59.719 --> 00:50:01.920 I that one a little bit better, but I think 953 00:50:02.039 --> 00:50:05.519 for a lot of folks, the standard Io version it 954 00:50:05.599 --> 00:50:08.760 is nicer because then, like claude to be just it 955 00:50:08.800 --> 00:50:11.440 will just run your app or your little command line 956 00:50:11.440 --> 00:50:14.320 app for you handle all that and then kill it 957 00:50:14.320 --> 00:50:16.880 when it's done, that kind of thing, Whereas if you 958 00:50:17.119 --> 00:50:18.880 use the SEC approach, you actually have to run a 959 00:50:18.920 --> 00:50:20.639 server and then you give it to you r L. 960 00:50:22.119 --> 00:50:25.880 It's basically you're building a note you're using note. 961 00:50:26.079 --> 00:50:27.559 Yeah yeah, yeah yeah. 962 00:50:27.599 --> 00:50:29.840 So in this case, So the the fun thing we 963 00:50:29.880 --> 00:50:32.519 did with create ts writer app was now you can 964 00:50:32.559 --> 00:50:36.000 put dashdash MCP or now even this morning damage dash 965 00:50:36.119 --> 00:50:41.119 MCP Dash SZ and it will run an MCP server 966 00:50:41.280 --> 00:50:45.679 and then the tools that it gives the the MCP 967 00:50:46.199 --> 00:50:49.239 agent the thing using MCP are things like create a 968 00:50:49.239 --> 00:50:53.400 tansec writerer app and list all my ons and all that. 969 00:50:53.800 --> 00:50:57.400 And so if you've got an ID that is integrated, 970 00:50:57.440 --> 00:51:02.719 that has MCP integration, and nowadays wind Surf and z 971 00:51:03.199 --> 00:51:08.239 and Cursor among amongst them, all have MCP integration. Cursor 972 00:51:08.280 --> 00:51:13.239 in particular has integration for both sc and also standard Io. 973 00:51:13.519 --> 00:51:16.559 I think winsurfhone supports standard Io, and I don't even 974 00:51:16.599 --> 00:51:19.440 know what Zed does. I don't mean whatever they get 975 00:51:19.440 --> 00:51:21.800 to like a rust thing for it. I'm like, I 976 00:51:21.840 --> 00:51:23.599 don't need I ain't got time for that. 977 00:51:24.719 --> 00:51:28.320 But it works conceptually, it works, but it's really cool. 978 00:51:28.360 --> 00:51:31.000 So basically what what what you can do now is 979 00:51:31.039 --> 00:51:35.000 you can go into your Cursor, bring up the agent 980 00:51:35.079 --> 00:51:38.159 mode panel and say I want to create a TAN 981 00:51:38.239 --> 00:51:40.679 sac ruder app and it should you know, do tic 982 00:51:40.719 --> 00:51:43.039 tecto or whatever, and you can literally see it, like 983 00:51:43.039 --> 00:51:45.039 it makes the calls to ask for you know, what 984 00:51:45.079 --> 00:51:48.000 are my capabilities, and makes the call to make the app, 985 00:51:48.239 --> 00:51:50.239 and then it starts editing the files in place, and 986 00:51:50.280 --> 00:51:53.320 you're like, dang, this is like v zero but like 987 00:51:53.480 --> 00:51:55.679 in my cursor, like it's just right. 988 00:51:55.719 --> 00:51:57.280 I don't even have to leave. I can just go 989 00:51:57.440 --> 00:51:59.000 make apps right away. 990 00:51:59.480 --> 00:52:02.119 And it's funny because like, yes, it is teaching it 991 00:52:02.239 --> 00:52:05.000 like new tricks, like the old Claud doesn't know about 992 00:52:05.039 --> 00:52:08.559 tan stak, the old Claud doesn't know like mpx A. 993 00:52:08.719 --> 00:52:11.840 Like when you try it up add shad cyn components, 994 00:52:12.320 --> 00:52:14.800 it still tries to use shaddy and dash y because 995 00:52:14.800 --> 00:52:16.679 that's what it is trained on, even though now we 996 00:52:16.760 --> 00:52:17.639 use shaddzy n. 997 00:52:18.400 --> 00:52:23.079 Thank you for that, even though you might say same command, 998 00:52:23.159 --> 00:52:23.599 but whatever. 999 00:52:24.079 --> 00:52:29.920 So within let's say cursor, you might say, give me 1000 00:52:30.239 --> 00:52:36.800 a new React application called such and such that has 1001 00:52:37.039 --> 00:52:46.199 these pages using tailwind using shad c N. I also 1002 00:52:46.440 --> 00:52:50.000 need a single sign on and I want to deploy 1003 00:52:50.039 --> 00:52:53.559 it there. Yeah, and enter and it. 1004 00:52:54.360 --> 00:52:56.440 And start building it out. Yeah, it's really cool. 1005 00:52:56.519 --> 00:52:58.960 And it opens within cursor and you're ready to go. 1006 00:52:59.360 --> 00:53:03.159 Yeah, it might even work. I mean you're already in cursors. So, yeah, 1007 00:53:03.159 --> 00:53:06.840 you created an app within within your exacting with your system. Yeah, 1008 00:53:06.840 --> 00:53:10.800 and it actually it has a decent chance. 1009 00:53:10.599 --> 00:53:11.079 Will work it. 1010 00:53:13.880 --> 00:53:16.280 Yeah, I've just found the AI models. They're getting better, 1011 00:53:16.280 --> 00:53:18.199 but they're still kind of hit, hit or miss sometimes. 1012 00:53:18.199 --> 00:53:20.440 So but it'll get you a waist down the road 1013 00:53:20.440 --> 00:53:21.320 at the very least. Right. 1014 00:53:21.440 --> 00:53:25.119 Yeah, But in this case, well, you can either tell 1015 00:53:25.159 --> 00:53:27.440 it and have the app do this such and such, 1016 00:53:27.480 --> 00:53:29.559 in which case it will start writing the app. Or 1017 00:53:29.639 --> 00:53:32.920 you can just get the basic skeleton and you've avoided 1018 00:53:32.960 --> 00:53:34.920 dealing with command line switches. 1019 00:53:34.679 --> 00:53:35.960 Right, and then you can continue on. 1020 00:53:36.079 --> 00:53:39.599 You can create another session with the agent and say, well, 1021 00:53:39.639 --> 00:53:41.719 now that my apps set up, now go and add 1022 00:53:41.719 --> 00:53:43.639 this and that and the other thing, and it'll it'll 1023 00:53:43.639 --> 00:53:44.239 start doing that. 1024 00:53:45.440 --> 00:53:45.679 Cool. 1025 00:53:45.719 --> 00:53:47.559 Ye, it's really cool. 1026 00:53:48.199 --> 00:53:49.760 It's very cool. Yeah. 1027 00:53:49.840 --> 00:53:51.599 And I was kind of surprised by that one too. 1028 00:53:51.599 --> 00:53:55.360 It's like there's been two things where they've done stuff 1029 00:53:55.360 --> 00:53:57.880 that I was surprised that other people haven't. The one was, 1030 00:53:58.119 --> 00:54:01.840 you know, CRA being deport Like, why didn't VAT come 1031 00:54:01.920 --> 00:54:03.639 up with a template that was a CRA template? 1032 00:54:03.679 --> 00:54:06.000 I don't even know, Like, well, I think I told 1033 00:54:06.079 --> 00:54:08.320 you I think we talked about it. I think the 1034 00:54:08.760 --> 00:54:12.000 main issue that people forget is that VAT was created 1035 00:54:12.199 --> 00:54:18.639 by uh Avenue evenue and avenues about view. 1036 00:54:21.360 --> 00:54:22.800 Yeah, but you. 1037 00:54:22.760 --> 00:54:25.800 Know there's marketing, right. I think that a marketing is 1038 00:54:25.840 --> 00:54:28.840 underplayed in our place. So particularly when folks who are 1039 00:54:29.039 --> 00:54:31.360 building their own libraries and stuff, they kind of think 1040 00:54:31.400 --> 00:54:32.960 that like the tech is everything, Like I'm going to 1041 00:54:33.000 --> 00:54:34.800 make this awesome library and it's going to do some 1042 00:54:34.840 --> 00:54:37.519 amazing stuff, and people are just if you build it, 1043 00:54:37.519 --> 00:54:40.079 they will come kind of thing, and no, you actually 1044 00:54:40.119 --> 00:54:43.519 have to market stuff, and so understanding marketing opportunities is 1045 00:54:43.559 --> 00:54:46.719 really important. And when I saw like that cra deprecation, 1046 00:54:46.760 --> 00:54:49.119 I'm like this and in fact, this is the words 1047 00:54:49.119 --> 00:54:51.480 that I told Tanner. I'm like, this is a moment. 1048 00:54:52.559 --> 00:54:55.440 You you've got to get after it. In that moment. 1049 00:54:55.679 --> 00:54:57.559 And when people are starting to talk about what do 1050 00:54:57.559 --> 00:55:00.239 we do, it's like, Okay, instead of just saying use 1051 00:55:00.239 --> 00:55:03.559 an extras, which is kind of loomy tunes, no. 1052 00:55:03.679 --> 00:55:04.599 Here you go. 1053 00:55:04.159 --> 00:55:07.840 Here's here's a viable solution that has exactly All you 1054 00:55:07.880 --> 00:55:10.840 need to do is change one word. Instead of create 1055 00:55:10.880 --> 00:55:13.000 react app, you just say create tst router app and 1056 00:55:13.039 --> 00:55:14.079 you're good to go. 1057 00:55:14.559 --> 00:55:15.920 And are you seeing adoption? 1058 00:55:16.519 --> 00:55:16.679 Oh? 1059 00:55:16.760 --> 00:55:22.119 Yeah, yeah, we saw. I think the original solid router 1060 00:55:22.320 --> 00:55:28.400 create module is at ten stack slash create router, and 1061 00:55:28.440 --> 00:55:30.800 I think it had when I looked last time, it 1062 00:55:30.800 --> 00:55:33.880 was like fifteen hundred downloads per week was its average. 1063 00:55:34.760 --> 00:55:35.719 And this tool. 1064 00:55:37.159 --> 00:55:40.360 Create test Router app in its first week had about 1065 00:55:40.400 --> 00:55:41.199 eighteen hundred. 1066 00:55:41.800 --> 00:55:46.480 So that's great adoption. That's that's like right off the bat, 1067 00:55:46.599 --> 00:55:47.320 right there. 1068 00:55:48.199 --> 00:55:50.719 So right off the bat you more than doubled it download. 1069 00:55:51.000 --> 00:55:51.280 Yeah. 1070 00:55:51.320 --> 00:55:53.559 And now the cool thing is because we added Solid 1071 00:55:54.119 --> 00:55:56.559 and Ryan Carneado came in and said that now this 1072 00:55:56.639 --> 00:55:59.880 is his like he this is the builder that he's 1073 00:55:59.880 --> 00:56:02.400 been waiting for, Like now we're going to pick up 1074 00:56:02.440 --> 00:56:03.360 the Solid folks too. 1075 00:56:03.559 --> 00:56:06.159 And I'm digging it. I think this is really great. 1076 00:56:06.239 --> 00:56:11.000 Yeah, for sure, that's really awesome. What I wanted to 1077 00:56:11.039 --> 00:56:12.639 ask something some one of the. 1078 00:56:12.559 --> 00:56:15.440 Most popular open source things I've ever been involved in. 1079 00:56:15.559 --> 00:56:16.519 So I'm really. 1080 00:56:16.280 --> 00:56:18.880 Happy that like the first time I went to the plate, 1081 00:56:19.159 --> 00:56:22.199 you know, I swung and got a yeah, maybe a 1082 00:56:22.199 --> 00:56:23.639 double or. 1083 00:56:24.639 --> 00:56:26.679 It's all about it's all about the timing. 1084 00:56:27.440 --> 00:56:28.800 It is, it really is. 1085 00:56:28.920 --> 00:56:31.320 I think the last time I hit something like this 1086 00:56:31.519 --> 00:56:34.960 was the compiler. The React compiler came out. The team 1087 00:56:35.000 --> 00:56:36.920 gave me access about a week before it came out, 1088 00:56:37.320 --> 00:56:40.719 and I spent that week like actually like trying it out, 1089 00:56:40.760 --> 00:56:43.119 building a video around it, and that that video did 1090 00:56:43.159 --> 00:56:45.639 super well because it was kind of like it dropped 1091 00:56:45.639 --> 00:56:49.159 on the day that it was released and folks are like, oh, 1092 00:56:49.199 --> 00:56:51.480 this is my In fact, I think even Prime was like, 1093 00:56:51.480 --> 00:56:53.119 this is the official release React video. 1094 00:56:53.280 --> 00:56:55.320 Like no, it's not, but like whatever. 1095 00:56:57.159 --> 00:57:01.239 Let's also you know, you just make awesome video. Excited 1096 00:57:01.320 --> 00:57:04.440 before I said it again, I really enjoy watching your content. 1097 00:57:06.440 --> 00:57:08.639 I released one about reac scan first thing this morning, 1098 00:57:08.719 --> 00:57:12.400 so go check that out. Because Aidan's doing some amazing stuff. 1099 00:57:12.440 --> 00:57:14.599 Oh yeah, like I said, we actually had him on 1100 00:57:14.639 --> 00:57:15.000 the show. 1101 00:57:15.920 --> 00:57:17.119 Is that on the YouTube channel? 1102 00:57:17.480 --> 00:57:19.519 That's not like, yeah, that's on the Blue Collar car 1103 00:57:19.599 --> 00:57:24.719 or Jack Harrington YouTube channel. And yeah, actually just yesterday 1104 00:57:24.719 --> 00:57:27.559 he released a news zero dot two version that has 1105 00:57:27.599 --> 00:57:28.840 some really cool stuff in it. 1106 00:57:28.840 --> 00:57:29.760 It's got able to. 1107 00:57:29.719 --> 00:57:33.000 Do, like it's funny. So I was speaking with him 1108 00:57:33.000 --> 00:57:34.559 on the show and I was telling him you should 1109 00:57:34.599 --> 00:57:36.159 do this, you should do that, and he was like, 1110 00:57:36.239 --> 00:57:38.679 well let me. I'm taking notes. So I'm wondering if 1111 00:57:38.719 --> 00:57:41.639 some of my suggestions actually made it into this new version. 1112 00:57:41.719 --> 00:57:42.719 I need to go and check it. 1113 00:57:42.920 --> 00:57:45.199 Possibly one of the more intriguing ones, and maybe this 1114 00:57:45.280 --> 00:57:48.360 was a you thing, was that now it will actually 1115 00:57:48.400 --> 00:57:52.119 build a prompt that has all the information that it 1116 00:57:52.239 --> 00:57:55.000 has about like why this is re rendering or whatever, 1117 00:57:55.480 --> 00:57:58.360 and then you can literally take that there's a copy button, 1118 00:57:58.679 --> 00:58:02.119 paste that into a claud or chat GBT and maybe. 1119 00:58:01.920 --> 00:58:04.960 Claude will help you figure it out, like why that's happening. 1120 00:58:05.360 --> 00:58:09.360 I didn't suggest that, I just basically anyway. I basically 1121 00:58:09.400 --> 00:58:13.400 suggested that within the tool you could click on things 1122 00:58:13.400 --> 00:58:14.719 and get additional information. 1123 00:58:15.199 --> 00:58:16.760 Oh yeah, no, you can never do that. 1124 00:58:17.480 --> 00:58:19.000 Yeah, so previously you couldn't. 1125 00:58:19.920 --> 00:58:20.400 Well there you go. 1126 00:58:20.480 --> 00:58:23.159 Yeah, now you can like lock into a component and 1127 00:58:23.280 --> 00:58:28.480 see why is that and then force a whatever whatever 1128 00:58:28.679 --> 00:58:30.760 it is, to force a renderer that you don't want, 1129 00:58:31.119 --> 00:58:34.760 and it'll tell you, oh, the reason that particular component 1130 00:58:34.800 --> 00:58:37.800 is re rendering is because this hook you know in 1131 00:58:37.880 --> 00:58:42.119 there fired and that is just super cuock, super handy. 1132 00:58:42.360 --> 00:58:42.719 Yeah. 1133 00:58:42.800 --> 00:58:47.400 Yeah. Well, to be fair, this information was previously already 1134 00:58:47.440 --> 00:58:53.199 available within the React tool developer tools, so it's not 1135 00:58:54.000 --> 00:58:57.280 like you couldn't get at this information before. It's just 1136 00:58:57.440 --> 00:59:03.840 that Aiden is making this information much much more accessible 1137 00:59:04.320 --> 00:59:06.440 and more actionable as a result. 1138 00:59:06.639 --> 00:59:10.039 Yeah, and now it's also he's into slower components as well, 1139 00:59:10.079 --> 00:59:15.039 so it's not just avoiding excessive rerenders or unnecessary rerenders, 1140 00:59:15.360 --> 00:59:21.159 it's also hey, your FPS dropped, and now we can 1141 00:59:21.159 --> 00:59:23.880 actually tell you why it was this component it was 1142 00:59:23.880 --> 00:59:26.119 taking It was really you know, taking too long. 1143 00:59:26.719 --> 00:59:28.800 And yeah, that's it's just great. 1144 00:59:30.239 --> 00:59:32.360 Very cool. Like I said, we had him on the show. 1145 00:59:32.599 --> 00:59:36.840 I recommend our listeners checking that episode out as well 1146 00:59:36.920 --> 00:59:42.599 and also looking at your video. Yeah, uh, I wanted 1147 00:59:42.760 --> 00:59:45.199 I wanted, Oh I wanted to ask you. I now 1148 00:59:45.239 --> 00:59:47.360 remember what I wanted to ask you. I'm just curious, 1149 00:59:48.280 --> 00:59:52.639 what's your own personal idea of choice these days. 1150 00:59:53.119 --> 00:59:59.320 I've just recently switched back from Windsurf to Curser and 1151 00:59:59.400 --> 01:00:03.559 that was primary around the MCP integration. The MCP integration 1152 01:00:03.639 --> 01:00:07.840 into Windsurf just was a little kind of janky, like 1153 01:00:08.000 --> 01:00:09.920 it is just like literally if you got the config 1154 01:00:10.000 --> 01:00:13.480 file wrong or your server or your MCP server fell over, 1155 01:00:14.000 --> 01:00:18.159 you just get this like blank white panel that was like. 1156 01:00:18.280 --> 01:00:21.079 Boom, couldn't couldn't you couldn't deal, you. 1157 01:00:21.119 --> 01:00:25.840 Know kind of thing, and the MCP integration into a 1158 01:00:25.880 --> 01:00:29.599 cursor is at least marginally more robust. But you know, 1159 01:00:29.639 --> 01:00:31.440 I gotta tell you, like, I've been talking to the 1160 01:00:31.440 --> 01:00:34.280 other folks about this, and it's like I just don't get, 1161 01:00:35.039 --> 01:00:38.880 Like I understand as an investor why these companies. 1162 01:00:38.519 --> 01:00:40.079 Would want their own IDEs. 1163 01:00:40.679 --> 01:00:45.159 But from a technical perspective, these could just be plugins 1164 01:00:45.559 --> 01:00:49.559 and the codium was just a plug in. Everything is there, 1165 01:00:50.159 --> 01:00:52.480 But like, is it just that your investors are like, 1166 01:00:52.559 --> 01:00:54.039 come on, man, I'm going to give you one hundred 1167 01:00:54.079 --> 01:00:55.960 and fifty million dollars if you're not going to build 1168 01:00:55.960 --> 01:00:56.360 an app. 1169 01:00:57.039 --> 01:01:00.440 Well, yeah, do you really need to fort real coe? 1170 01:01:00.880 --> 01:01:04.079 Yeah, that's that's an interesting question. Whether there's anything that 1171 01:01:04.119 --> 01:01:06.400 they do which could not have been done. 1172 01:01:06.760 --> 01:01:08.920 Which I actually think yeah, and I actually think the 1173 01:01:08.920 --> 01:01:09.880 integration is poor. 1174 01:01:10.199 --> 01:01:13.400 Like, as an example, like the whole setting system in 1175 01:01:13.880 --> 01:01:17.000 PS code I believe is extensible, and yet if I 1176 01:01:17.000 --> 01:01:20.639 go in a cursor, they've got their own additional setting 1177 01:01:20.679 --> 01:01:24.679 system which is totally non standard. It doesn't actually show 1178 01:01:24.719 --> 01:01:27.840 up in the command panel. You can't like say bring 1179 01:01:27.920 --> 01:01:29.920 up command shift P and then say like add an 1180 01:01:30.000 --> 01:01:32.360 MTP server they don't integrate at that level. It's just 1181 01:01:32.480 --> 01:01:35.280 kind of like this kind of like not particularly well 1182 01:01:35.280 --> 01:01:39.519 integrated integration, and yet they've forked vs code to add it. 1183 01:01:39.599 --> 01:01:40.800 I'm like, good. 1184 01:01:41.440 --> 01:01:45.679 Well, to be honest, I'm still I'm still using vs 1185 01:01:45.760 --> 01:01:48.159 code and I'm hardly even using co pilot. 1186 01:01:48.719 --> 01:01:53.280 Wow, okay, I'm old school. Yeah, i'd us lately and 1187 01:01:53.280 --> 01:01:55.519 I've been pretty happy with it. Yeah, the tab stuff, 1188 01:01:55.800 --> 01:01:57.679 the tab when then when when Curser came out with 1189 01:01:57.719 --> 01:01:59.159 the tab completion, that was. 1190 01:01:59.119 --> 01:02:01.440 Like, whoa, that's next level. That's what. 1191 01:02:03.039 --> 01:02:06.480 Well, So as you're as you're editing, it's trying to 1192 01:02:06.480 --> 01:02:09.519 figure out what you're doing, and then it just literally says, oh, 1193 01:02:09.519 --> 01:02:09.920 I got. 1194 01:02:09.760 --> 01:02:11.079 A completion for you. Hear it. 1195 01:02:11.280 --> 01:02:13.000 Here's kind of a preview of it. Hit tab and 1196 01:02:13.039 --> 01:02:16.440 you'll get it. And it just seems me like spookly 1197 01:02:16.599 --> 01:02:19.400 good and understanding what I'm trying to do, Like if 1198 01:02:19.440 --> 01:02:22.440 I'm changing I don't know, some like I'm adding some 1199 01:02:22.480 --> 01:02:24.760 demo data or something like that. I'll add like one 1200 01:02:24.840 --> 01:02:27.039 example and it'll be like, oh, here's five more. 1201 01:02:27.559 --> 01:02:30.719 You're like, I wish, I wish, I wish I was 1202 01:02:30.760 --> 01:02:33.519 writing that amount of code right now I'm the current 1203 01:02:33.599 --> 01:02:36.400 I think I told you that the current project that 1204 01:02:36.480 --> 01:02:41.400 I'm struggling with is trying to add Typescript into a 1205 01:02:41.519 --> 01:02:47.400 huge legacy web application and it's really tough going for me. 1206 01:02:47.679 --> 01:02:50.000 Well yeah, but you beave a surprise like if you're 1207 01:02:50.039 --> 01:02:52.280 if you actually, like you mentioned in this and I 1208 01:02:52.480 --> 01:02:54.719 mentioned that, like you probably want to extricate the code 1209 01:02:54.760 --> 01:02:56.920 into its own package and then upgrade it. But like 1210 01:02:56.960 --> 01:02:59.079 if you're doing that, that kind of work of like, oh, 1211 01:02:59.159 --> 01:03:01.960 I've got these fifteen functions. They all take the first 1212 01:03:02.360 --> 01:03:04.960 you know, they all take a parameter which is I 1213 01:03:05.000 --> 01:03:07.840 don't know, whatever options or whatever is their first parameter. 1214 01:03:08.199 --> 01:03:11.039 You fix it on the first one, and it's like, hey, 1215 01:03:11.480 --> 01:03:14.119 if you hit tab, I'll just fix all other furs 1216 01:03:14.199 --> 01:03:14.599 for you. 1217 01:03:15.039 --> 01:03:15.960 Do you want me to do that? 1218 01:03:16.000 --> 01:03:20.000 And you're like hmm, well yeah, I guess, like just 1219 01:03:20.039 --> 01:03:23.519 do for me what you've got. 1220 01:03:23.960 --> 01:03:26.159 Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's the thing. 1221 01:03:26.360 --> 01:03:28.320 The other the other thing I've seen is like if 1222 01:03:28.320 --> 01:03:30.519 I'm changing the name of a function or a method 1223 01:03:31.199 --> 01:03:34.599 or yeah, change the signature or anything like that, it 1224 01:03:34.639 --> 01:03:36.440 goes in and it says you want me to fix 1225 01:03:36.519 --> 01:03:40.079 like everything that uses this. I mean, it's like hmm. 1226 01:03:40.320 --> 01:03:43.199 Let me think about that second. Yeah, well, yes, yes, 1227 01:03:43.239 --> 01:03:45.280 you could do that for me. And it's just it's 1228 01:03:45.320 --> 01:03:48.719 like it is, it is the co pilot that you wanted. Yeah, 1229 01:03:49.320 --> 01:03:52.960 it's just really good for that, really really good. Yeah, 1230 01:03:52.960 --> 01:03:55.239 and it is fast, like I was actually talking to 1231 01:03:55.519 --> 01:03:58.679 behind this. And so there's the side panel that uses 1232 01:03:58.760 --> 01:04:01.400 like clawed or deep sea or whatever and does my 1233 01:04:01.519 --> 01:04:04.559 almost ever touch that, to be honest, rights, that's when 1234 01:04:04.559 --> 01:04:07.360 you actually like the long sort of things. And then 1235 01:04:07.719 --> 01:04:10.800 then there's a tab integration, which is at least on 1236 01:04:10.880 --> 01:04:13.559 Windsurf it was their own custom l M, and I'm 1237 01:04:13.559 --> 01:04:16.719 guessing that it's probably the same for Cursor and it 1238 01:04:16.840 --> 01:04:18.800 is wild fast. 1239 01:04:19.800 --> 01:04:23.159 Yeah, well there's a reason. And VideA is worth what 1240 01:04:23.280 --> 01:04:23.760 it's worth. 1241 01:04:27.559 --> 01:04:31.840 Yeah. I think it's running locally, I guess hmmm yeah, 1242 01:04:31.960 --> 01:04:32.400 probably not. 1243 01:04:32.760 --> 01:04:34.880 Yeah, but you still got to train the models. 1244 01:04:35.320 --> 01:04:36.760 Yeah, that's true, that's true. 1245 01:04:36.960 --> 01:04:40.119 Yeah, And as we saw deep Seek right on, one 1246 01:04:40.159 --> 01:04:42.719 thing is training and another thing is actually you know, 1247 01:04:42.840 --> 01:04:46.159 running it and being hyperperforming or cacheing and things like that, 1248 01:04:46.239 --> 01:04:48.000 and so there's a lot of a lot of ground 1249 01:04:48.079 --> 01:04:49.400 be made up to run it locally. 1250 01:04:50.360 --> 01:04:52.239 Yeah. Well, and that's the chink in the armor the 1251 01:04:52.360 --> 01:04:55.679 deep Seek exposed. I mean, if if they're what we've 1252 01:04:55.679 --> 01:04:57.920 been told about it is honest, is that they didn't 1253 01:04:57.960 --> 01:05:02.119 need the big fat GPU to do it or the 1254 01:05:02.159 --> 01:05:05.079 set of GPUs. I don't know. But at the same time, 1255 01:05:05.599 --> 01:05:09.599 if we can get away with training models without yeah, 1256 01:05:09.639 --> 01:05:13.480 without that, then you know, maybe in NVIDIA isn't as valuable. 1257 01:05:13.519 --> 01:05:16.039 But still, I mean, the things that we can do 1258 01:05:16.079 --> 01:05:17.239 with AI these days is just. 1259 01:05:17.559 --> 01:05:20.320 No, it's beyond it's beyond that. You know, we are 1260 01:05:21.199 --> 01:05:26.559 Chinese attack away from AI being delayed by a decade. 1261 01:05:28.920 --> 01:05:31.840 What I mean is if if China decides to go 1262 01:05:31.960 --> 01:05:37.000 for Taiwan, oh yeah, there goes AI. Yeah, unless indeed 1263 01:05:37.360 --> 01:05:41.920 something like deep Seek can work around the GPU shortage 1264 01:05:42.000 --> 01:05:43.320 that will arise. 1265 01:05:43.480 --> 01:05:45.480 Yeah, that's why we needed the Chips Act was to 1266 01:05:45.599 --> 01:05:48.679 go in. But the probably, yeah, the fabs are the issue. 1267 01:05:49.119 --> 01:05:52.039 And then a fantastic book that I read last year 1268 01:05:52.079 --> 01:05:55.519 I think called chip Wars, which is all about like 1269 01:05:55.599 --> 01:05:59.719 the evolution of the chip and the fact that we 1270 01:05:59.800 --> 01:06:03.480 now live in this amazingly fragile ecosystem where there's literally 1271 01:06:04.239 --> 01:06:07.159 one country in the world. I think it's like Denmark 1272 01:06:07.440 --> 01:06:11.079 where they build the uh the machines that are capable 1273 01:06:11.079 --> 01:06:15.840 of actually like doing the printing on and the lithography. 1274 01:06:16.320 --> 01:06:19.519 And it's literally that one company like nobody else in 1275 01:06:19.559 --> 01:06:20.880 the when the world mixed up. 1276 01:06:21.440 --> 01:06:28.280 You know, we're totally digressing. But yeah, you know, it's 1277 01:06:28.320 --> 01:06:31.079 shades of the Bronze Age collapse. And you know about 1278 01:06:31.079 --> 01:06:35.960 that what the Bronze Age collapse was. No, so back 1279 01:06:36.079 --> 01:06:40.239 in like the twelfth century BC, the entire they had 1280 01:06:40.280 --> 01:06:44.920 this very sophisticated ancient world. You had Egypt, and you 1281 01:06:45.039 --> 01:06:49.039 had the Assyrian empires and Babylonia and the Hittites and whatnot, 1282 01:06:49.800 --> 01:06:56.199 and then it all collapsed within within uh something like 1283 01:06:56.239 --> 01:06:59.960 a century, the whole world more or less came crumbling down. 1284 01:07:00.719 --> 01:07:05.760 The Minoa, the Mycenean me know, and Mycenian cultures for 1285 01:07:05.800 --> 01:07:10.159 example in Greece they died. It took four hundred years 1286 01:07:10.159 --> 01:07:11.480 for them to get writing again. 1287 01:07:12.159 --> 01:07:12.719 Wow. 1288 01:07:13.159 --> 01:07:15.599 So yeah, it's like the full. 1289 01:07:17.000 --> 01:07:17.360 Copper. 1290 01:07:18.440 --> 01:07:22.039 No, it had to do with the sophisticated network of 1291 01:07:22.119 --> 01:07:26.519 commerce that when when they started to fall, they felt 1292 01:07:26.559 --> 01:07:31.199 like dominoes. So so basically, you know, you think about 1293 01:07:31.199 --> 01:07:35.079 the modern world where everything is interconnected, where like a 1294 01:07:35.159 --> 01:07:38.840 pencil gets made in like parts with five different countries 1295 01:07:38.960 --> 01:07:42.719 or something like that. You're thinking, if you pull one 1296 01:07:43.079 --> 01:07:47.920 country or one domino, one falls. If it's sufficiently large 1297 01:07:47.920 --> 01:07:51.960 domino at least the entire system, can you know, collapse. 1298 01:07:52.280 --> 01:07:52.519 Yeah. 1299 01:07:53.480 --> 01:07:58.000 Anyway, we totally digressed going back to CT are You're 1300 01:07:58.039 --> 01:08:01.519 still You're you're still So we talked about this fantastic 1301 01:08:01.559 --> 01:08:04.480 AI integration that's built in. So now if you're using 1302 01:08:04.559 --> 01:08:08.159 an AI by the way, you can't get this functionality 1303 01:08:08.360 --> 01:08:13.119 within VS code with the Copilot. They don't have support 1304 01:08:13.159 --> 01:08:13.440 for that. 1305 01:08:13.519 --> 01:08:15.079 Yet, I don't think. So. 1306 01:08:15.119 --> 01:08:18.239 I googled around for Copilot and MCP, and I didn't 1307 01:08:18.239 --> 01:08:21.279 find that they had any integration currently. But I wouldn't 1308 01:08:21.279 --> 01:08:23.359 I would expect. I mean, this is like an arms 1309 01:08:23.439 --> 01:08:27.520 race here. You know, you got Microsoft going and they're 1310 01:08:27.640 --> 01:08:30.640 they're constantly adding new stuff on a Copilot and kind 1311 01:08:30.680 --> 01:08:33.960 of compete, so I would I think, Actually, Copilot does 1312 01:08:34.000 --> 01:08:37.479 have now the tab completion and stuff, so I would 1313 01:08:37.479 --> 01:08:39.159 expect that MCP wouldn't be far behind. 1314 01:08:40.119 --> 01:08:40.359 Cool. 1315 01:08:40.439 --> 01:08:43.279 I'm glad that it's actually like there's an awesome MCP 1316 01:08:44.439 --> 01:08:46.520 GitHub as you usually have for this sort of thing, 1317 01:08:46.560 --> 01:08:49.000 like with the list of all the potential servers and 1318 01:08:49.159 --> 01:08:51.600 it's growing fast. 1319 01:08:51.680 --> 01:08:54.319 The MCP environment. I did just quick Google search and 1320 01:08:54.359 --> 01:08:58.159 I did find a vs code MCP server extension. 1321 01:08:58.399 --> 01:08:58.880 Oh there you go. 1322 01:08:59.119 --> 01:09:01.880 Well, so I don't know, I don't know how far 1323 01:09:01.920 --> 01:09:02.960 that gets you down the road, but. 1324 01:09:03.039 --> 01:09:08.079 Right because co pilot itself had extension has extensions, which 1325 01:09:08.119 --> 01:09:11.560 was good, which was Microsoft's original answer pre MCP. So 1326 01:09:11.600 --> 01:09:13.800 I wonder if they're putting this is like a shim 1327 01:09:14.039 --> 01:09:19.680 to basically connect the githubs the co pilot extension mechanism 1328 01:09:19.760 --> 01:09:22.319 to an m CP server could. 1329 01:09:22.159 --> 01:09:24.960 Be Yeah, so good luck a bugging that one. 1330 01:09:25.960 --> 01:09:28.279 What's what's the so, what's the version of ct A 1331 01:09:28.479 --> 01:09:31.920 is it? Is it like it's well obviously or we 1332 01:09:31.920 --> 01:09:35.199 were talking about downloads, so it's officially released, but what's 1333 01:09:35.239 --> 01:09:36.560 the version around it? 1334 01:09:36.560 --> 01:09:40.439 It's currently zero four two so yeah. 1335 01:09:40.800 --> 01:09:42.920 So that counts as alpha beta. 1336 01:09:44.159 --> 01:09:47.359 I would say that the I mean, the main part 1337 01:09:47.359 --> 01:09:50.279 of it, like what just build an app is is 1338 01:09:50.319 --> 01:09:54.720 fully released. That's that's cool. But the add ons and 1339 01:09:54.800 --> 01:09:59.520 the AI stuff, I'm still getting some bugger I'm getting 1340 01:09:59.520 --> 01:10:03.000 bug reports, which is great. Some folks are finding that 1341 01:10:03.000 --> 01:10:05.520 there's issues. I was running into one just this morning 1342 01:10:05.600 --> 01:10:10.359 where folks are one part the chassy En add on 1343 01:10:10.920 --> 01:10:13.760 actually runs the shadzy En in it as part of 1344 01:10:13.800 --> 01:10:17.560 the setup process, and folks are seeing some issues of that, 1345 01:10:17.680 --> 01:10:19.960 and I think it was primarily around like older node 1346 01:10:20.039 --> 01:10:21.359 versions things like that. 1347 01:10:21.520 --> 01:10:24.159 So you know, you know what, you know, what might 1348 01:10:24.199 --> 01:10:28.000 be awesome if maybe it's already in your plans, if 1349 01:10:28.039 --> 01:10:31.920 people could add add ons without having to involve you. 1350 01:10:32.560 --> 01:10:36.399 Yes, yeah, So the long range thing here, there's two 1351 01:10:36.439 --> 01:10:38.079 big things that I want to do that I want 1352 01:10:38.079 --> 01:10:40.039 to go after, and I don't know if it's going 1353 01:10:40.039 --> 01:10:41.520 to fit in to create ts rout or app or 1354 01:10:41.520 --> 01:10:45.560 it's just going to be part of like something that's different. 1355 01:10:46.880 --> 01:10:49.479 But the idea is to kind of work on the 1356 01:10:49.520 --> 01:10:52.479 shadzy En model where shadzy En now has this thing 1357 01:10:52.520 --> 01:10:54.520 called blocks and I've actually talked with the chazy and 1358 01:10:54.600 --> 01:10:57.079 guy and he's totally had more to this. But if 1359 01:10:57.079 --> 01:10:59.600 you go to if you like, take a shadzy En 1360 01:10:59.640 --> 01:11:03.000 app and or an app that has shedsy in it, 1361 01:11:03.039 --> 01:11:07.279 and you say like mpx shedsy En at latest ad. 1362 01:11:07.239 --> 01:11:09.119 And then you give it you could. 1363 01:11:08.880 --> 01:11:11.600 Normally do like button or input or one of those, 1364 01:11:12.119 --> 01:11:15.359 but you could you can give it a URL and 1365 01:11:15.399 --> 01:11:18.239 that URL points to a Jason blob that has like 1366 01:11:18.319 --> 01:11:20.359 all of the information, here's the files that you need 1367 01:11:20.399 --> 01:11:22.600 to put in where they need to go, here's the 1368 01:11:22.600 --> 01:11:25.520 package you need to add all that stuff. And I 1369 01:11:25.560 --> 01:11:27.560 actually built an app that makes it really easy to 1370 01:11:27.560 --> 01:11:31.880 build these these Jason Delta files. But the idea is like, 1371 01:11:31.920 --> 01:11:35.640 if I'm a clerk or whatever, I can just go 1372 01:11:35.720 --> 01:11:39.600 and build like a start setup dot Jason file and 1373 01:11:39.640 --> 01:11:42.159 then you just do MPX Chad cy N, here's my 1374 01:11:42.359 --> 01:11:45.159 UL start set up blah blah blah, and it goes 1375 01:11:45.199 --> 01:11:47.640 and bo drops all those files down. It'll tell you 1376 01:11:47.640 --> 01:11:49.479 if it's going to overwrite files, it'll add all the 1377 01:11:49.479 --> 01:11:52.000 package of Jason stuff, it'll change all the CSS variables 1378 01:11:52.039 --> 01:11:55.600 and everything, and now you've got an integration for I 1379 01:11:55.600 --> 01:11:57.319 don't know, clerk or whatever it is, right, And I 1380 01:11:57.359 --> 01:11:58.479 thought that, man, that's cool. 1381 01:11:58.479 --> 01:11:59.720 That's really cool and. 1382 01:12:00.079 --> 01:12:03.039 Does exactly what Dan was saying, which is basically it 1383 01:12:03.039 --> 01:12:06.760 it opens up the door for anybody to go and 1384 01:12:06.800 --> 01:12:11.159 make these add on templates, and that that was fascinating. 1385 01:12:11.439 --> 01:12:14.039 So scary to an extent, you don't know where your 1386 01:12:14.079 --> 01:12:15.239 template is coming from. 1387 01:12:15.560 --> 01:12:18.079 Yeah, but I mean how many times I maybe you 1388 01:12:18.119 --> 01:12:19.520 don't do this but like, how many times have you 1389 01:12:19.600 --> 01:12:23.479 gotten instructions for installation that are like curl this ur 1390 01:12:23.680 --> 01:12:27.039 l into my in my shell And it's like, ill, 1391 01:12:27.960 --> 01:12:30.800 I don't know, right, right's a pseudo curl And you're like, 1392 01:12:31.319 --> 01:12:34.079 I don't know what you're doing, but I trust you 1393 01:12:35.000 --> 01:12:38.359 and it totally gives me malware. But you know, at 1394 01:12:38.359 --> 01:12:41.600 the end of the day, if you use get just 1395 01:12:41.680 --> 01:12:43.680 you know, if you're going to do that, if you're 1396 01:12:43.680 --> 01:12:45.560 going to say mpx chancy, and just make sure that 1397 01:12:45.560 --> 01:12:49.239 you're on a clean branch right, like you're not, like 1398 01:12:49.279 --> 01:12:51.520 there's no existing work or anything, and then you can 1399 01:12:51.600 --> 01:12:53.720 just be like, well get status, like what. 1400 01:12:53.439 --> 01:12:56.319 What did you change? And you can literally see like 1401 01:12:56.439 --> 01:12:58.000 here I added this file here. 1402 01:12:58.319 --> 01:13:01.119 That sand is a huge topic that's beyond the scope 1403 01:13:01.119 --> 01:13:03.520 certainly of the time we have left, because I do 1404 01:13:03.640 --> 01:13:06.800 have look, I really like the on the one hand, 1405 01:13:06.840 --> 01:13:10.399 I really love the headless approach, oh yeah, But on 1406 01:13:10.439 --> 01:13:14.239 the other hand, I'm really wary about the fact that 1407 01:13:14.439 --> 01:13:18.199 it's literally embedding code in your project rather than taking 1408 01:13:18.239 --> 01:13:22.760 the package approach, because then I keep thinking, what if 1409 01:13:22.800 --> 01:13:24.159 a new version comes out? 1410 01:13:24.520 --> 01:13:26.920 Yeah, have you looked at well one? They do have 1411 01:13:27.000 --> 01:13:29.159 kind of a song for that. But two, have you 1412 01:13:29.199 --> 01:13:30.800 actually looked at the code that it's putting in. 1413 01:13:31.560 --> 01:13:33.199 No, to be honest, I have done. 1414 01:13:33.279 --> 01:13:35.600 I think you'll be a lot better if you look 1415 01:13:35.600 --> 01:13:38.000 at the code, because the code is really like in 1416 01:13:38.000 --> 01:13:41.479 most cases, it is a very light wrapper around a 1417 01:13:41.600 --> 01:13:45.640 rad x component that basically just says, here, use this 1418 01:13:45.680 --> 01:13:47.880 rad ex component which is headless, and here are the 1419 01:13:47.920 --> 01:13:49.279 classes that you want to put on it. 1420 01:13:49.319 --> 01:13:52.600 And so the red x component itself is still an external. 1421 01:13:52.119 --> 01:13:54.920 Component exactly, and it is and it is big, and 1422 01:13:55.000 --> 01:13:57.479 it's doing all the work of all the ITN and 1423 01:13:57.600 --> 01:14:00.159 or the accessibility and all the rest of it it. 1424 01:14:01.119 --> 01:14:04.720 So it really is if you were to go and 1425 01:14:04.800 --> 01:14:07.640 use like a rat X in your app, you'd probably 1426 01:14:07.680 --> 01:14:11.680 be building these files this way. That's how I look 1427 01:14:11.720 --> 01:14:14.840 at it. And you know, again like so cool, like 1428 01:14:14.920 --> 01:14:17.359 that whole infrastructure of blocks is so cool for like 1429 01:14:17.399 --> 01:14:20.439 an infrastructure like I always look at like my past 1430 01:14:20.479 --> 01:14:22.560 experience and like what would I do if I was 1431 01:14:22.640 --> 01:14:25.479 using this at Nike right or at Walmart labs where 1432 01:14:25.479 --> 01:14:27.720 we're working the past, and I've been on in for 1433 01:14:27.880 --> 01:14:31.800 teams at those companies, and it is so cool that 1434 01:14:31.880 --> 01:14:33.760 as in like a Nike can go and create like 1435 01:14:33.760 --> 01:14:37.000 an internal GitHub repo that has those Jason files for 1436 01:14:37.159 --> 01:14:39.600 like our version of a button and our version of 1437 01:14:39.600 --> 01:14:41.960 an input, and then instead of just doing you know, 1438 01:14:42.000 --> 01:14:44.680 shad see in add button, you use shad c in 1439 01:14:44.880 --> 01:14:47.520 add a r L for our button and you get 1440 01:14:47.560 --> 01:14:50.439 all of our styling and all of our stuff as 1441 01:14:50.439 --> 01:14:52.720 opposed to that, which I think is just super cool. 1442 01:14:54.000 --> 01:14:55.880 Yeah, all right, so that's that's one thing we want 1443 01:14:55.920 --> 01:14:56.079 to do. 1444 01:14:56.319 --> 01:14:59.399 Sorry, I was just gonna I have one more question 1445 01:14:59.439 --> 01:15:00.680 than I think when you to get a picks, but 1446 01:15:00.720 --> 01:15:02.840 go ahead and finish with Okay, well. 1447 01:15:04.239 --> 01:15:07.039 That that ability to have external templates and then also 1448 01:15:07.159 --> 01:15:09.560 to do those add ons. That's what we'd be looking 1449 01:15:09.600 --> 01:15:11.439 to do next when it comes to this tis routter stuff. 1450 01:15:11.880 --> 01:15:15.439 So yeah, so you know related to that, and you 1451 01:15:15.439 --> 01:15:18.000 know the things that you would like to do. So 1452 01:15:18.199 --> 01:15:19.760 is version one dot ZHO just going to be a 1453 01:15:19.760 --> 01:15:21.680 stable version of what you have now or is it 1454 01:15:21.720 --> 01:15:23.439 going to include some of this stuff or there are 1455 01:15:23.439 --> 01:15:24.720 other things that you want to see in it. 1456 01:15:25.239 --> 01:15:28.920 I don't know, you know, I think it's stable as is. 1457 01:15:29.079 --> 01:15:30.720 I know that like I guess one we could we 1458 01:15:30.760 --> 01:15:34.399 could bump into one dot oh it's fine, but I 1459 01:15:34.399 --> 01:15:36.680 I'm just enjoying getting feedback from folks. 1460 01:15:36.720 --> 01:15:38.079 I think that's one of the cool things. 1461 01:15:38.079 --> 01:15:41.760 We were kind of like before this happened, we were 1462 01:15:41.800 --> 01:15:44.760 talking about that that Chadsia M block system and just 1463 01:15:44.800 --> 01:15:48.920 kind of hypothesizing about it, and having done this has 1464 01:15:49.039 --> 01:15:52.720 really helped inform what that needs to be, and it 1465 01:15:52.760 --> 01:15:57.760 needs to be, unfortunately a lot more complex because you know, 1466 01:15:57.760 --> 01:16:00.079 there's multiple ways that you can build an app in 1467 01:16:00.119 --> 01:16:04.720 multiple places that code can go, and so it's it's 1468 01:16:04.800 --> 01:16:07.720 really helping, like the existence of great test writer app 1469 01:16:07.800 --> 01:16:11.279 is kind of helping inform the next generation of test 1470 01:16:11.279 --> 01:16:13.279 writer app that will allow this ability to create like 1471 01:16:13.319 --> 01:16:17.840 public integrations or your own custom integrations, your own custom templates. 1472 01:16:18.119 --> 01:16:19.479 I really want for people to be able. 1473 01:16:19.359 --> 01:16:21.960 To say, hey, I've built my app, I've set it 1474 01:16:22.039 --> 01:16:23.720 up the way that I want it. It's got all 1475 01:16:23.760 --> 01:16:25.479 the stuff that I need in it. For any time 1476 01:16:25.800 --> 01:16:28.920 I want to literally go and just like frost this 1477 01:16:29.359 --> 01:16:32.199 as a template, and then next time I want to 1478 01:16:32.199 --> 01:16:34.239 build an app, I just want to use that and 1479 01:16:34.359 --> 01:16:36.960 the but it would be an active template where where 1480 01:16:37.000 --> 01:16:40.920 the versions would change and that sort of stuff. So 1481 01:16:41.000 --> 01:16:42.199 that's where I kind of want to get. 1482 01:16:42.079 --> 01:16:46.840 To have we has Jack frozen for YouTube? 1483 01:16:47.479 --> 01:16:47.720 Yes? 1484 01:16:49.239 --> 01:16:54.039 Sorry, No, I do have one final question on my 1485 01:16:54.239 --> 01:16:58.199 end before we go to picks Picks. By the way, 1486 01:16:58.319 --> 01:17:02.560 just so you know, I remind you, I don't know 1487 01:17:02.640 --> 01:17:05.199 if you had it when you were on on the 1488 01:17:05.439 --> 01:17:10.159 on you know, the react ground up round. It's basically 1489 01:17:10.199 --> 01:17:13.000 shouting out your whatever you want to shout out. 1490 01:17:13.079 --> 01:17:14.239 Okay, cool, all right. 1491 01:17:14.680 --> 01:17:19.000 So my question is about the deployment story. Uh, is 1492 01:17:19.039 --> 01:17:21.680 there a deployment store, Like if if I want to 1493 01:17:21.720 --> 01:17:26.119 employ deploy to Netlify or to versell or to a 1494 01:17:26.359 --> 01:17:31.000 WS is that part of ct A or do I 1495 01:17:31.079 --> 01:17:34.880 need the ten sax start for that? Like? What's the 1496 01:17:34.920 --> 01:17:36.039 story around deployment. 1497 01:17:36.279 --> 01:17:39.119 So Netlifi is a partner with Tansac and we have 1498 01:17:39.239 --> 01:17:45.279 a pretty early days add on for Netlify in the 1499 01:17:45.279 --> 01:17:48.600 package that basically just goes and kind of sets up 1500 01:17:48.880 --> 01:17:51.319 adds a little bit of deployment information to the REMDIA. 1501 01:17:51.319 --> 01:17:53.359 We didn't do all that much, but that's one thing 1502 01:17:53.359 --> 01:17:56.199 I definitely want to do is start working with Netlifhi 1503 01:17:56.279 --> 01:17:59.359 to see if we can strengthen that to the place 1504 01:17:59.399 --> 01:18:03.239 where if you build a straight SPA that can be 1505 01:18:03.359 --> 01:18:06.439 just statically deployed. Then we'll set it up that way. 1506 01:18:06.680 --> 01:18:08.439 And if you build a start app and then we'll 1507 01:18:08.479 --> 01:18:11.199 go and set up your netle file so that it'll 1508 01:18:11.199 --> 01:18:14.680 actually go and run a server and give you all that. 1509 01:18:14.680 --> 01:18:17.239 Start kind of has it built built in, doesn't it? 1510 01:18:17.840 --> 01:18:20.199 I don't think, though maybe it does. 1511 01:18:20.560 --> 01:18:22.800 I think it does. I would check with tenor. I 1512 01:18:22.840 --> 01:18:27.720 think one of the key things about meta frameworks or 1513 01:18:27.840 --> 01:18:31.520 full stack frameworks is the deployment story. Oh for sure, 1514 01:18:31.960 --> 01:18:35.279 you expect like three things from a full stack app, 1515 01:18:35.720 --> 01:18:40.399 or maybe four things, depending how you count. You expect bundling, 1516 01:18:41.159 --> 01:18:45.920 you expect routing, and you expect deployments. 1517 01:18:47.079 --> 01:18:49.279 That's three things. 1518 01:18:48.239 --> 01:18:51.760 Here four well fourth I was hesitant about the fourth. 1519 01:18:54.119 --> 01:18:56.760 Yeah, okay, but I mean there's really two different things, 1520 01:18:56.800 --> 01:18:59.840 right if you if you're building a static app, then 1521 01:19:00.000 --> 01:19:02.479 and that is one type of deployment you can go 1522 01:19:02.520 --> 01:19:05.560 and deploy out to S three or CDNs or whatever, 1523 01:19:05.920 --> 01:19:08.479 and then there's another level of deployment when it comes. 1524 01:19:08.399 --> 01:19:12.439 To That's why about SSR, because SSR is on the 1525 01:19:12.760 --> 01:19:15.239 is like half of it is part of the bundling 1526 01:19:15.319 --> 01:19:18.159 story and half of it is part of the deployment story, 1527 01:19:18.359 --> 01:19:20.199 and half of it is part of the routing story. 1528 01:19:20.279 --> 01:19:23.399 So there are three halves to SSR. 1529 01:19:23.920 --> 01:19:28.199 But you know, I don't want to bag on again. 1530 01:19:28.640 --> 01:19:31.439 I haven't a course for next JS. We would, you know, 1531 01:19:31.680 --> 01:19:34.439 go check it out here into that and and it's great, 1532 01:19:34.680 --> 01:19:36.840 and we do talk about deployments, but I guess say, 1533 01:19:36.880 --> 01:19:39.680 the easiest way to deploy next JS is and probably 1534 01:19:39.760 --> 01:19:44.960 always will be Brissel. And yeah, and if you try 1535 01:19:45.000 --> 01:19:48.159 to deploy it on like a Docker or an s. 1536 01:19:48.000 --> 01:19:51.359 ST, I mean it is, it's it's not easy. 1537 01:19:51.720 --> 01:19:53.600 It's not easy, particularly if you want to really use 1538 01:19:53.640 --> 01:19:56.199 the really like cutting edge features like the ISR stuff 1539 01:19:56.279 --> 01:19:56.880 or any of that. 1540 01:19:57.239 --> 01:19:58.520 It's it's a lot. 1541 01:20:00.119 --> 01:20:04.039 Rom had a really good like video going through it, 1542 01:20:04.079 --> 01:20:06.000 and it's it's not trivial. 1543 01:20:08.640 --> 01:20:12.680 Yeah. Cool, Well I'm done on my end. 1544 01:20:13.359 --> 01:20:16.720 Cool, Well let's do picks. Awesome, Dan, do you want 1545 01:20:16.720 --> 01:20:17.680 to get a start with the picks. 1546 01:20:18.800 --> 01:20:23.319 I'm really hesitant about my pick today. I'll be intentionally brief. 1547 01:20:23.359 --> 01:20:25.399 I thought about talking more at length, but I'll be 1548 01:20:25.479 --> 01:20:29.800 intentionally brief. Today was a really sad day in Israel. 1549 01:20:30.159 --> 01:20:34.880 The country kind of stood still because today the was 1550 01:20:34.880 --> 01:20:37.760 the funeral of the Bebas family. I don't know if 1551 01:20:37.800 --> 01:20:43.920 you've heard about the story. I again, I don't want 1552 01:20:43.920 --> 01:20:47.119 to go into the details because they're there. I don't 1553 01:20:47.119 --> 01:20:50.159 think it's appropriate in this context. I'll just mentioned that 1554 01:20:50.640 --> 01:20:54.279 the mother and the two babies were murdered while in captivity, 1555 01:20:54.920 --> 01:20:59.760 and the bodies were finally returned and today they were buried. Uh, 1556 01:21:00.079 --> 01:21:06.680 and everybody. Basically a lot of people wore orange because 1557 01:21:07.359 --> 01:21:11.840 the two babies wore redheads, and so they kind of 1558 01:21:11.840 --> 01:21:15.920 were known for that, and the whole country just came 1559 01:21:15.960 --> 01:21:22.560 out and you know, paid the respects and so forth. Yeah. Sorry, 1560 01:21:22.800 --> 01:21:24.920 that's that's my unfortunate pick for today. 1561 01:21:27.199 --> 01:21:35.439 All Right. I don't want to follow that, but I'm gonna. 1562 01:21:33.359 --> 01:21:35.039 This is not this is not the first time I've 1563 01:21:35.079 --> 01:21:37.119 been doing it recently. This has not been this is 1564 01:21:37.159 --> 01:21:39.560 not we talked about this, Jack. This has not been 1565 01:21:39.600 --> 01:21:40.079 a good year. 1566 01:21:40.279 --> 01:21:42.119 Yeah no, yeah, I feel. 1567 01:21:41.920 --> 01:21:44.439 Well, twenty twenty four was a really unfortunate year. 1568 01:21:44.640 --> 01:21:48.600 Yeah. Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead with the card game 1569 01:21:48.640 --> 01:21:51.760 first it. I need to just make a list so 1570 01:21:51.840 --> 01:21:54.720 I know whether or not I picked these games, because 1571 01:21:54.720 --> 01:21:58.079 I do a board game pick every time, and I'm 1572 01:21:58.079 --> 01:21:59.680 not I'm not sure if I picked this one or not. 1573 01:22:00.439 --> 01:22:02.479 But it's one that I played recently with some friends, 1574 01:22:03.159 --> 01:22:06.600 and I might have picked it last week and if 1575 01:22:06.600 --> 01:22:08.840 I did, or the last episode, and if I did, 1576 01:22:08.880 --> 01:22:13.880 I'm sorry. It is the groundhog Day game. So if 1577 01:22:13.920 --> 01:22:18.880 you've seen the movie groundhog Day, you know he who hasn't, Yeah, 1578 01:22:18.960 --> 01:22:19.359 yeah right. 1579 01:22:19.840 --> 01:22:22.800 My sister was born on your birthday. Was was a friend. 1580 01:22:22.880 --> 01:22:24.880 We see it and then we go to bed, then 1581 01:22:24.920 --> 01:22:26.239 we wake up and we see it again. 1582 01:22:26.960 --> 01:22:33.600 Right, So, so the card game is based on the movie, 1583 01:22:33.920 --> 01:22:37.880 and the idea is that you go through each day 1584 01:22:37.920 --> 01:22:39.720 and you're trying to have that perfect day, right so 1585 01:22:39.800 --> 01:22:42.319 that you can get out of the time loop. And 1586 01:22:42.399 --> 01:22:45.039 the way that the way that the game is played, 1587 01:22:45.359 --> 01:22:48.399 so Board game Geek waits it at one point too, too, 1588 01:22:48.479 --> 01:22:51.640 which means it's a pretty simple game that you know, 1589 01:22:51.680 --> 01:22:53.640 you kind of pick up and play. I could play 1590 01:22:53.640 --> 01:22:55.399 with this with my you know, with my nine year 1591 01:22:55.399 --> 01:22:59.840 old and she'd be fine playing it. But you are 1592 01:23:00.079 --> 01:23:03.640 out a hand of cards and then it's kind of 1593 01:23:03.680 --> 01:23:06.920 everybody jumps in and plays when they think it's appropriate. 1594 01:23:07.479 --> 01:23:11.039 So you know, there are no turns, they're just rounds, 1595 01:23:11.880 --> 01:23:15.399 and you have gray cards which are worth zero herds. 1596 01:23:15.439 --> 01:23:17.479 You have blue cards which are worth one heart. You 1597 01:23:17.520 --> 01:23:21.880 have orange cards which are worth two, Yellow is worth three, 1598 01:23:22.000 --> 01:23:23.079 and red is worth four. 1599 01:23:23.439 --> 01:23:25.439 I'm guessing you get all the hearts to win and 1600 01:23:25.439 --> 01:23:26.479 get a lot of hard Yeah. 1601 01:23:26.520 --> 01:23:28.119 So to have the perfect day, you have to have 1602 01:23:28.199 --> 01:23:31.680 all red cards on your day, and they're all numbered, 1603 01:23:32.439 --> 01:23:35.279 and so you can only play a number that is 1604 01:23:35.359 --> 01:23:38.439 higher than the last number played in the day. And 1605 01:23:38.479 --> 01:23:40.760 there's seven cards in a day or six cards in 1606 01:23:40.800 --> 01:23:44.119 a day, and so you deal out the cards and 1607 01:23:44.119 --> 01:23:46.359 then everybody starts. So initially you're starting, you're playing all 1608 01:23:46.399 --> 01:23:49.800 your gray cards or blue cards because each day has 1609 01:23:49.840 --> 01:23:52.720 to be better than the last day in hearts, and 1610 01:23:52.800 --> 01:23:57.399 so you know, and you can't talk at all about 1611 01:23:57.439 --> 01:23:59.800 what you've got in your hand. So we're ribbing each other, 1612 01:23:59.840 --> 01:24:02.039 but we're not you know, we're not discussing the game. 1613 01:24:02.119 --> 01:24:05.680 We're playing, me and my buddies. But anyway, so yeah, 1614 01:24:05.720 --> 01:24:08.960 so that, I mean, that's essentially the game. Some of 1615 01:24:09.000 --> 01:24:12.119 the yellow cards unlock red cards that get then get 1616 01:24:12.159 --> 01:24:14.079 shuffled into the deck each round, and you get fewer 1617 01:24:14.119 --> 01:24:17.680 cards each round. And so you know, every time we've 1618 01:24:17.680 --> 01:24:20.479 played it, we've it's taken us five or six rounds 1619 01:24:20.479 --> 01:24:22.880 to beat it. I don't think we ever lost, but 1620 01:24:23.000 --> 01:24:29.039 we're all experienced board game people, so you know, we 1621 01:24:29.680 --> 01:24:33.000 did kind of discuss strategy before we started playing, but 1622 01:24:33.359 --> 01:24:36.079 that was it. And anyway, it's a fun game. 1623 01:24:36.439 --> 01:24:38.359 You're kind of guessing, you're. 1624 01:24:38.119 --> 01:24:41.279 Trying, you're basically guessing, especially on the round where you 1625 01:24:41.319 --> 01:24:43.800 want to start playing red cards, because you just don't 1626 01:24:43.800 --> 01:24:45.800 play them until you you know, you think you have 1627 01:24:45.920 --> 01:24:49.000 enough among all of you to play it out, but 1628 01:24:49.039 --> 01:24:51.960 then somebody has to guess that everybody has enough and 1629 01:24:52.359 --> 01:24:57.640 play that first red card. And so anyway, it was fun, 1630 01:24:57.840 --> 01:25:03.319 very fun. It takes about twenty minutes. Yeah, so you 1631 01:25:03.439 --> 01:25:06.800 just you know, if you're playing those those quick hit games, 1632 01:25:06.840 --> 01:25:08.680 you know you're sitting in an airport and you're not 1633 01:25:08.720 --> 01:25:11.039 sure when you're gonna be done. It's a fun game. 1634 01:25:11.479 --> 01:25:14.039 Or for us, you're right, we were just you know, 1635 01:25:14.840 --> 01:25:16.880 we played like four or five times. It was really fun. 1636 01:25:17.159 --> 01:25:17.439 Nice. 1637 01:25:18.039 --> 01:25:20.920 By the way, speaking about the movie Groundhog Day, it's 1638 01:25:20.960 --> 01:25:24.079 it's funny how many movies were inspired by that movie. 1639 01:25:24.279 --> 01:25:28.600 Oh yeah, and and and you know, not a lot 1640 01:25:28.640 --> 01:25:33.039 of them were necessarily good movies. But actually, actually one 1641 01:25:33.079 --> 01:25:40.000 that was is Edge of Tomorrow. 1642 01:25:37.800 --> 01:25:41.000 Is great yeah, thank you asking those two if they're 1643 01:25:41.039 --> 01:25:43.399 going to ever make an Edge of Tomorrow Too, it 1644 01:25:43.439 --> 01:25:46.159 was just such a oh I love that movie, and. 1645 01:25:46.159 --> 01:25:48.720 Yeah, just just don't make a sequel. That's terrible that 1646 01:25:48.760 --> 01:25:51.800 you're just cashing in on, because yeah, the movie studios 1647 01:25:51.840 --> 01:25:53.319 do that all the time. And it's like, it's like, 1648 01:25:53.560 --> 01:25:55.680 you had such a good thing and it wouldn't have 1649 01:25:55.720 --> 01:25:59.199 been that hard to make another good thing based on it. 1650 01:26:00.079 --> 01:26:02.479 Yeah, you know, the same be said of Done Too, 1651 01:26:01.880 --> 01:26:03.840 though Two is phenomenal. 1652 01:26:04.000 --> 01:26:04.840 I love that movie. 1653 01:26:05.159 --> 01:26:11.279 Yeah, I don't know it was. I didn't get it two. 1654 01:26:11.840 --> 01:26:15.039 Yeah, all right, part three when it comes out. 1655 01:26:16.479 --> 01:26:22.199 Look, I tried to three. Yeah, yeah, I tried to 1656 01:26:22.239 --> 01:26:28.159 watch the prequel series. Yeah, and I couldn't make it. 1657 01:26:29.000 --> 01:26:29.960 The first Yeah. 1658 01:26:30.079 --> 01:26:34.399 We went all the day throughism that it wasn't great. 1659 01:26:35.880 --> 01:26:38.680 I'm doing freak man. I loved doing even I read 1660 01:26:38.960 --> 01:26:39.880 I read the book. 1661 01:26:40.279 --> 01:26:42.560 I read the books years ago and I loved them 1662 01:26:42.560 --> 01:26:44.760 as well. I reread the book like a few years 1663 01:26:44.800 --> 01:26:47.960 ago as well. So I really liked the lore. It's 1664 01:26:48.079 --> 01:26:51.640 just that for some reason, by the end of I 1665 01:26:51.680 --> 01:26:54.800 had few To be honest, I had like two problems 1666 01:26:54.800 --> 01:26:57.359 with doing two. First of all, they deviated from the 1667 01:26:57.399 --> 01:27:02.680 books and and that was hard for me. And the 1668 01:27:02.720 --> 01:27:08.079 second thing was kind of, well, what was the point 1669 01:27:08.119 --> 01:27:08.680 of all this? 1670 01:27:10.000 --> 01:27:13.439 Yeah, that's where my wife came down on it too, 1671 01:27:13.479 --> 01:27:14.920 but she hasn't read the books or anything. 1672 01:27:15.119 --> 01:27:16.920 Yeah. I think three. 1673 01:27:16.800 --> 01:27:21.279 Will pay it off, because what both Deni and also 1674 01:27:21.560 --> 01:27:24.680 Frank Herbert were trying to say was don't fall in 1675 01:27:24.720 --> 01:27:27.359 love with one of these these you know, kind of 1676 01:27:28.119 --> 01:27:31.600 charismatic profit types, right that to that way. 1677 01:27:31.600 --> 01:27:36.279 Lines doom and so don't do that. Yeah yeah, all right, 1678 01:27:36.319 --> 01:27:38.039 but you throw down on some picks. 1679 01:27:38.359 --> 01:27:40.439 I got too, and I think it can be real fast. 1680 01:27:40.479 --> 01:27:43.319 So the first one is ghost t t Y. It's 1681 01:27:43.319 --> 01:27:45.159 a replacement for the terminal on Mac. 1682 01:27:45.279 --> 01:27:46.479 It's it's really good. 1683 01:27:46.520 --> 01:27:49.359 It's really fast, and I think just recently they added 1684 01:27:49.359 --> 01:27:52.560 support for shaters so you can put in a custom shader. 1685 01:27:53.920 --> 01:27:55.680 It can be really fun. I was playing around. I 1686 01:27:55.720 --> 01:27:58.520 added like a Matrix inspired shater. 1687 01:27:58.960 --> 01:28:01.520 You know. It was really cute. So that was that 1688 01:28:01.560 --> 01:28:03.399 was really fun. I'm really enjoying Ghosty. 1689 01:28:04.760 --> 01:28:06.439 Is this a Mitchell hat your motto? 1690 01:28:06.840 --> 01:28:07.359 Yeah? 1691 01:28:07.439 --> 01:28:09.920 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. I just got a lot 1692 01:28:09.960 --> 01:28:12.560 of money that guy. Chill out make make a terminal 1693 01:28:13.960 --> 01:28:14.600 was my second pick. 1694 01:28:14.640 --> 01:28:18.039 My second Oh man, so it's a replacement for it 1695 01:28:18.279 --> 01:28:19.600 term and whatnot. 1696 01:28:20.119 --> 01:28:22.039 Yeah, yeah, I mean, to be honest, I. 1697 01:28:22.840 --> 01:28:24.960 Mostly run the terminal inside PS. 1698 01:28:25.479 --> 01:28:26.560 I'm with you, I'm with you. 1699 01:28:27.399 --> 01:28:30.680 Yeah, so I've heavily altered my my terminal with you know, 1700 01:28:30.720 --> 01:28:32.960 the prompt and all that sort of stuff. There's actually 1701 01:28:33.239 --> 01:28:34.880 I'll make that my second pick. There's another thing that 1702 01:28:34.880 --> 01:28:36.920 you can do called I think it's like a transient 1703 01:28:37.479 --> 01:28:38.439 prompt or something like that. 1704 01:28:38.960 --> 01:28:39.840 I'll find it. 1705 01:28:40.159 --> 01:28:43.239 But it's basically a switch where if you turn it on, 1706 01:28:43.800 --> 01:28:45.520 then if you have one of those elaborate prompts that 1707 01:28:45.560 --> 01:28:47.119 gives you like the path name and all that sort 1708 01:28:47.159 --> 01:28:49.760 of stuff, what it'll do is as you enter a 1709 01:28:49.800 --> 01:28:53.800 command and then go, it will essentially remove that and 1710 01:28:53.840 --> 01:28:56.720 so you don't see that in your history, just repeated 1711 01:28:56.760 --> 01:28:59.199 over and over and over again. You just see command response, 1712 01:28:59.279 --> 01:29:02.560 Man responseman response, and then you're a big ass prompt 1713 01:29:02.760 --> 01:29:04.760 and then you know what you're currently working on, and 1714 01:29:04.800 --> 01:29:07.399 at the moment that you hit enter, that big ass 1715 01:29:07.439 --> 01:29:08.960 propt will go away and you'll. 1716 01:29:08.800 --> 01:29:10.079 Just see like LS or whatever. 1717 01:29:10.079 --> 01:29:10.279 It is. 1718 01:29:10.640 --> 01:29:15.359 Interesting, Yeah, transitive transient basically yeah, essentially. 1719 01:29:15.239 --> 01:29:18.800 Yeah, and that's in ghost or is that no. 1720 01:29:19.039 --> 01:29:25.159 For me, that's in ZSH So that's in okay, Yeah. 1721 01:29:23.560 --> 01:29:24.000 I don't know. 1722 01:29:24.239 --> 01:29:25.319 Oh my the s h. 1723 01:29:25.520 --> 01:29:27.560 Yeah yeah, and I use like I think, oh my 1724 01:29:27.720 --> 01:29:29.920 posh to go and do my prompt. 1725 01:29:30.680 --> 01:29:32.239 Yeah, I'm the same. 1726 01:29:32.640 --> 01:29:34.319 Yeah all right. 1727 01:29:34.399 --> 01:29:38.000 Cool. Well Jack, if people want to connect with you, 1728 01:29:38.079 --> 01:29:42.720 find you on the internet, watch your courses they're. 1729 01:29:42.479 --> 01:29:44.720 In there with go through the tubes. Well you can 1730 01:29:44.720 --> 01:29:47.760 find me, uh primarily on YouTube. That's a great spot 1731 01:29:47.800 --> 01:29:49.920 to go and check out all my content. And then 1732 01:29:50.000 --> 01:29:53.399 of course I'm on blue Sky and X and LinkedIn. 1733 01:29:53.720 --> 01:29:58.199 Blue Color Coder. How are you still using that Moniker 1734 01:29:58.880 --> 01:29:59.319 kind of? 1735 01:29:59.439 --> 01:30:02.079 I mean I like the Moniker but actually I was 1736 01:30:02.159 --> 01:30:04.560 just throwing it around just recently, like should I get rid. 1737 01:30:04.520 --> 01:30:05.000 Of it or what? 1738 01:30:05.039 --> 01:30:06.760 And people are like, yeah, it's okay, but I mean 1739 01:30:07.119 --> 01:30:09.079 it's in like the banner graphics and stuff like that. 1740 01:30:09.119 --> 01:30:11.199 But I don't really it's not the name of the channel, 1741 01:30:11.479 --> 01:30:13.119 but I think if you if you do Google for it, 1742 01:30:13.159 --> 01:30:16.000 you will find it anyway. I'm also Jhard at dev 1743 01:30:16.399 --> 01:30:22.079 that's you know whatever. Yeah, I'm around and you know fairly. 1744 01:30:22.239 --> 01:30:26.000 I said it before, said it again. You know your 1745 01:30:26.199 --> 01:30:29.439 stuff is awesome and everybody should be watching it. I've 1746 01:30:29.520 --> 01:30:32.239 learned every time I watched one of your videos, I've 1747 01:30:32.319 --> 01:30:32.880 learned something. 1748 01:30:33.239 --> 01:30:34.680 There you go, thank you. 1749 01:30:36.600 --> 01:30:38.079 All right, well we're gonna go ahead and wrap it 1750 01:30:38.159 --> 01:30:38.520 up here. 1751 01:30:39.119 --> 01:30:40.880 It's been a real pleasure, guys. Thank you. It's good. 1752 01:30:40.880 --> 01:30:42.199 It's been great to be back. 1753 01:30:44.319 --> 01:30:44.760 Max Out