WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:01.399 Game three pacers. 2 00:00:01.439 --> 00:00:04.000 Okay, see you will be Wednesday at six thirty Mountain 3 00:00:04.040 --> 00:00:06.839 time joining us now to talk some NBA. It's been 4 00:00:06.839 --> 00:00:09.119 a minute, but good friend of the show, Rob Perez 5 00:00:09.199 --> 00:00:11.720 back on the program on a Monday, Rob, Happy Monday, man. 6 00:00:11.759 --> 00:00:12.240 How you doing? 7 00:00:13.640 --> 00:00:15.880 Got a couple more gray hairs on my head since 8 00:00:15.880 --> 00:00:18.280 the last time we spoke? Better than that? The sun 9 00:00:18.440 --> 00:00:20.359 rose in the east and it's set in the west. 10 00:00:20.600 --> 00:00:23.440 There you go, can't complain, and my. 11 00:00:23.399 --> 00:00:25.399 Beard is much wider than it was last time you 12 00:00:25.399 --> 00:00:28.559 and I spoke. So you and I odd bedfellows there, Rob. 13 00:00:28.600 --> 00:00:32.079 I wanted to start with the situation in New York, where, 14 00:00:32.200 --> 00:00:34.439 for the first time in a number of different years, 15 00:00:34.439 --> 00:00:38.240 the Knicks are relevant and good and fun and they. 16 00:00:38.200 --> 00:00:39.799 Also need a new head coach. 17 00:00:40.439 --> 00:00:44.039 Your response and reaction to the news when you heard 18 00:00:44.039 --> 00:00:46.359 it that they were letting Tom Thibodeau go, and I'm 19 00:00:46.399 --> 00:00:48.159 just wondering who you think is going to get that gig? 20 00:00:49.920 --> 00:00:53.280 Yeah, So initial thoughts it was very neutral, which is 21 00:00:53.320 --> 00:00:55.920 strange for me considering I'm a Knicks fan and being 22 00:00:56.039 --> 00:00:58.719 old enough to experience the highs and the lows and 23 00:00:58.799 --> 00:01:03.920 everything in between. This is not something new where the 24 00:01:04.120 --> 00:01:06.799 governor of the team, James Dolan is sitting in on 25 00:01:06.920 --> 00:01:10.519 exit interviews with the head of basketball operations, who is 26 00:01:10.640 --> 00:01:13.120 now Leon Rose. In the past, that could have been 27 00:01:13.120 --> 00:01:15.599 a Donnie Walsh, It could have been Phil Jackson, you know, 28 00:01:15.640 --> 00:01:19.760 someone like that. But Dolan reappearing is certainly brings up 29 00:01:19.799 --> 00:01:22.239 memories of that time. But the Knicks have moved on 30 00:01:22.439 --> 00:01:25.280 past that, right, I mean, you brought it up yourself. 31 00:01:25.280 --> 00:01:28.560 This team is fun, They are relevant. They are moving 32 00:01:28.560 --> 00:01:31.359 in a direction that I haven't seen since I was 33 00:01:31.400 --> 00:01:34.719 a child. And a lot of that building up was 34 00:01:34.840 --> 00:01:37.599 due to Tom Thibodeau. I mean, this team went from 35 00:01:37.599 --> 00:01:41.920 complete irrelevancy where the entire roster was built on power 36 00:01:42.000 --> 00:01:45.519 forwards who were on one plus one contracts meaning under 37 00:01:45.599 --> 00:01:48.959 contract plus a team option that second year, Taj Gibson 38 00:01:49.000 --> 00:01:51.920 and Marcus Morris and all these names, right, and they've 39 00:01:51.920 --> 00:01:55.719 evolved into this over four or five year span. And 40 00:01:55.760 --> 00:01:58.359 you got to give Tom Thibodeau most of the credit. 41 00:01:58.359 --> 00:02:01.400 Theres he's been at the helm coaching these guys through 42 00:02:01.439 --> 00:02:03.640 thick and thin, and the New York Knicks have been 43 00:02:03.680 --> 00:02:06.719 a roller coaster of emotion. They go on losing streaks, 44 00:02:06.760 --> 00:02:09.639 they respond with a seven game winning streak. Now there's 45 00:02:09.680 --> 00:02:13.360 been this resemblance of consistency and taking that step forward. 46 00:02:14.039 --> 00:02:17.759 So for all of those reasons, I am certainly appreciative 47 00:02:18.280 --> 00:02:22.840 of what Tom Thibodeau accomplished in New York. You know, 48 00:02:22.879 --> 00:02:25.960 there's a Comma butt coming a comma however, dot dot 49 00:02:26.039 --> 00:02:30.879 dot However, I do certainly believe that what's holding back 50 00:02:30.919 --> 00:02:33.479 the Knicks from taking what's now the next step to 51 00:02:33.520 --> 00:02:37.520 the NBA Finals is the ability to deploy and develop 52 00:02:37.599 --> 00:02:40.840 a roster that is more than seven to eight deep. 53 00:02:41.039 --> 00:02:44.039 And if we have learned anything from Tom Thibodeau these years, 54 00:02:44.400 --> 00:02:48.039 it's that he is always going to go down in 55 00:02:48.159 --> 00:02:51.919 Tom Thibodeau's way, right, He's going to play his seven 56 00:02:51.960 --> 00:02:55.800 to eight trusted guys, and only out of necessity, not 57 00:02:55.879 --> 00:03:00.120 necessarily preference, will he go to the Delon rights, the 58 00:03:00.159 --> 00:03:05.120 Landry Shammitz, of whom played pretty decently in that conference finals. 59 00:03:05.319 --> 00:03:06.919 But you're going to need a lot more than that 60 00:03:07.319 --> 00:03:10.599 to beat these pacers. So maybe it was the belief 61 00:03:10.759 --> 00:03:15.280 from Nick's ownership and the executive level that we're very 62 00:03:15.319 --> 00:03:18.240 thankful for you getting us here, but for us to 63 00:03:18.319 --> 00:03:21.159 become this publicly traded company. We got to go with 64 00:03:21.199 --> 00:03:24.120 a different CEO, right, That's the only way the board 65 00:03:24.199 --> 00:03:27.319 is going to improve this IPO price is if there's 66 00:03:27.319 --> 00:03:30.560 someone else at the Helm who can take what's there 67 00:03:31.000 --> 00:03:33.599 and push them even further. And I think the second 68 00:03:33.599 --> 00:03:37.680 part of your question was who's next? Got me? I 69 00:03:37.680 --> 00:03:40.759 mean they're trying to seek permission to speak with Jason 70 00:03:40.840 --> 00:03:44.039 Kidd from Dallas, and you can put the pieces together 71 00:03:44.120 --> 00:03:46.800 on that one. What that would mean potentially for the 72 00:03:46.919 --> 00:03:48.919 roster as well. 73 00:03:49.039 --> 00:03:51.560 Yeah, to me, Rob, that also indicates they did not 74 00:03:51.719 --> 00:03:55.039 have contingency in place, Like if you're going to fire 75 00:03:55.080 --> 00:03:57.000 a coach who just took you to the Eastern Conference 76 00:03:57.039 --> 00:03:59.560 finals for the first time in twenty five years and 77 00:03:59.639 --> 00:04:01.840 one fifty ball games back to back years for the 78 00:04:01.840 --> 00:04:04.080 first time since ninety four ninety five, you better know 79 00:04:04.120 --> 00:04:05.080 what you're doing next. 80 00:04:05.400 --> 00:04:06.840 And I honestly don't think that they do. 81 00:04:08.560 --> 00:04:11.120 Yeah. I really did expect to hear the news of 82 00:04:11.199 --> 00:04:14.159 someone getting the next job within forty eight hours, because 83 00:04:15.039 --> 00:04:19.600 you're only firing Tom Thibodeau. If you have something lined 84 00:04:19.720 --> 00:04:22.319 up that's going to help you take that next step, 85 00:04:22.680 --> 00:04:25.199 and it's now been a lot more than forty eight hours, 86 00:04:25.240 --> 00:04:28.480 so people were thinking, is Michael Malone just you know, 87 00:04:28.600 --> 00:04:31.800 being part of that CIA mafia with Leon Rose and 88 00:04:31.879 --> 00:04:34.759 Worldwide West? You know, is he next up being the 89 00:04:34.800 --> 00:04:39.480 New Yorker And he also has proven success championship success 90 00:04:39.519 --> 00:04:43.000 in managing a veteran laden team, But he's not the 91 00:04:43.000 --> 00:04:45.399 head coach in the Knicks yet. You could figure maybe 92 00:04:45.480 --> 00:04:47.279 Jay Wright would have been the guy because of his 93 00:04:47.319 --> 00:04:51.560 connection to those national champion Villanova Wildcats and how much 94 00:04:51.600 --> 00:04:54.600 those guys liked playing for him, But supposedly he has 95 00:04:54.680 --> 00:04:57.759 denied that as well. And the Jason Kidd thing has 96 00:04:57.759 --> 00:05:01.800 some serious equity with me because I would certainly understand 97 00:05:01.839 --> 00:05:05.360 why he wants to leave Dallas with all the turnover 98 00:05:05.560 --> 00:05:08.399 and overhaul that's been going on with you know, their 99 00:05:08.480 --> 00:05:11.199 ranks at the players and the coaching staff. If Jason 100 00:05:11.279 --> 00:05:13.800 Kidd wants to come back to New York, we know 101 00:05:14.079 --> 00:05:17.000 that he's close, not the but one of his closest 102 00:05:17.040 --> 00:05:20.839 allies in the NBA right now is Giannis Antennacumbo from 103 00:05:20.879 --> 00:05:24.680 their time in Milwaukee. So is there some back channeling 104 00:05:24.800 --> 00:05:28.639 that's been going on that the Knicks have learned? If 105 00:05:28.839 --> 00:05:33.839 Giannis excuse me, if Jason Kidd gets the New York 106 00:05:33.920 --> 00:05:38.240 Knicks job that if Giannis ends up getting traded that 107 00:05:38.319 --> 00:05:40.680 he will make it a point send me to New York. 108 00:05:41.079 --> 00:05:43.079 Because he can't. He doesn't have a no trade clause. 109 00:05:43.120 --> 00:05:45.879 He can't. He can't decline trades the way that Bradley 110 00:05:45.920 --> 00:05:50.800 Beal can. But star players have a ton of leverage, 111 00:05:50.879 --> 00:05:53.720 and if they say I'm only going to play in 112 00:05:53.800 --> 00:05:56.600 New York, he can potentially call out the bluff of 113 00:05:56.639 --> 00:05:58.839 some of these teams that are going to be offering 114 00:05:58.879 --> 00:06:02.000 the Milwaukee Bucks a package for Janis's services. And we 115 00:06:02.040 --> 00:06:04.160 don't know what the bucks official choice is going to 116 00:06:04.240 --> 00:06:06.439 be in regards to moving him or keeping him on 117 00:06:06.480 --> 00:06:09.279 the roster, because they've got their own issues there with 118 00:06:09.360 --> 00:06:12.000 the second Apron and Damian Lillard being out. But if 119 00:06:12.079 --> 00:06:14.480 Jason Kidd ends up getting signed by the New York 120 00:06:14.519 --> 00:06:17.439 Knicks and they go above and beyond to get him 121 00:06:17.480 --> 00:06:19.759 out of his contract there in Dallas, I think they 122 00:06:19.759 --> 00:06:23.480 would only be doing that if they know something about 123 00:06:23.560 --> 00:06:27.360 Janis in the future of his tenure with the Milwaukee Bucks. 124 00:06:28.199 --> 00:06:29.680 One more thing on this, they'll move on. 125 00:06:29.759 --> 00:06:31.279 And you just kind of alluded to what I was 126 00:06:31.319 --> 00:06:33.519 going to ask you whether it's Giannis or anybody else, 127 00:06:33.600 --> 00:06:34.519 because part. 128 00:06:34.360 --> 00:06:36.319 Of me Rob believes they do have a little bit of. 129 00:06:36.240 --> 00:06:39.399 A roster construction issue if they want to take the 130 00:06:39.439 --> 00:06:41.560 next step, and you know, the East is going to 131 00:06:41.600 --> 00:06:43.839 be interesting because we don't know what's gonna happen with Giannis, 132 00:06:43.879 --> 00:06:46.000 and Tatum's out for the year and Boston's has some 133 00:06:46.079 --> 00:06:47.439 economic decisions to make. 134 00:06:48.040 --> 00:06:50.079 So when you look at where the Knicks reside in. 135 00:06:50.000 --> 00:06:52.759 This ecosystem, they could make a case that they're right 136 00:06:52.800 --> 00:06:55.279 there with everybody else next year. But I think if 137 00:06:55.319 --> 00:06:57.639 they want to take the next step and go to 138 00:06:57.720 --> 00:07:00.439 a final and maybe actually win the thing, there are 139 00:07:00.480 --> 00:07:02.839 some roster construction issues they have to look at. 140 00:07:02.879 --> 00:07:05.439 And your points about Delon Delon. 141 00:07:05.240 --> 00:07:06.879 Wright, who was a ute we had them out here, 142 00:07:06.959 --> 00:07:10.199 and you know Landry Shaman and others are you know, 143 00:07:10.240 --> 00:07:12.879 they're salient fair points that I won't push back on. 144 00:07:13.199 --> 00:07:13.759 I don't know that. 145 00:07:13.800 --> 00:07:17.079 I love their bench, and Tom's track record does speak 146 00:07:17.079 --> 00:07:20.040 for itself. Whether it's Delon right or Manu Ginobile, he 147 00:07:20.240 --> 00:07:21.879 might have a tough time playing off the bench. I 148 00:07:21.959 --> 00:07:25.879 understand that. But do you think they look to do something? Look, 149 00:07:26.279 --> 00:07:29.000 I don't know what it looks like because they obviously 150 00:07:29.000 --> 00:07:32.480 traded five picks for bridges. He's up for an extension, 151 00:07:33.040 --> 00:07:35.720 kat Og and Jalen are all signed for quite some time, 152 00:07:35.759 --> 00:07:38.680 so I'm not sure what sort of flexibility they have. 153 00:07:38.839 --> 00:07:40.240 But do you think they look to tinker with this 154 00:07:40.360 --> 00:07:41.360 roster this offseason? 155 00:07:42.360 --> 00:07:44.600 Yeah, even if you liked some of those bench pieces 156 00:07:44.600 --> 00:07:47.680 that had a hard time seeing the floor under Tom Thibodeau, 157 00:07:47.720 --> 00:07:51.079 those Delon Wright's, Landry Shaman's Precious Atchewa, they're coming off 158 00:07:51.120 --> 00:07:53.959 the books. Yep, They're not under contract. So even if 159 00:07:54.000 --> 00:07:56.160 you liked them, you got to resign them and come 160 00:07:56.199 --> 00:07:59.639 to a completely separate negotiation. And now if they end 161 00:07:59.720 --> 00:08:03.319 up you thought the Knicks were thinned before, what happens 162 00:08:03.319 --> 00:08:07.399 when Pacombe Donnie and Tyler Kohlik and Ariel huck forty 163 00:08:07.800 --> 00:08:10.319 are asked to step in and fill those minutes. Right, 164 00:08:10.360 --> 00:08:14.000 those are supposed to be the farm system of which 165 00:08:14.079 --> 00:08:17.959 the Knicks are replenishing that bench talent with. But they 166 00:08:17.959 --> 00:08:19.920 may not even have the horses in the stable to 167 00:08:19.920 --> 00:08:21.600 be able to do it with a coach that can 168 00:08:21.879 --> 00:08:25.120 properly develop because they are very much in win now mode. 169 00:08:25.480 --> 00:08:27.879 We know the way that this collective bargaining agreement works. 170 00:08:27.920 --> 00:08:31.759 Your championship window lasts about three to four years before 171 00:08:32.000 --> 00:08:35.039 the players or the front office have some really tough 172 00:08:35.080 --> 00:08:37.080 decisions to make. The good news for the Knicks at 173 00:08:37.120 --> 00:08:41.559 their star Kalen Brunson has taken what is essentially a 174 00:08:41.639 --> 00:08:45.759 pay cut right by signing his contract early, not maximizing 175 00:08:45.799 --> 00:08:49.480 on an extension, and McHale bridges as a team friendly deal. 176 00:08:49.600 --> 00:08:51.799 A lot of these guys are willing to take less 177 00:08:51.840 --> 00:08:54.440 dollars because they enjoy playing with each other. And I 178 00:08:54.480 --> 00:08:57.559 thought they made that very apparent. But you're right. Even 179 00:08:57.799 --> 00:09:00.519 with all of those guys in the math work out 180 00:09:00.720 --> 00:09:03.720 like this, they still have about duce McBride off the 181 00:09:03.720 --> 00:09:06.600 bench right now, in one more year of Mitchell Robinson. 182 00:09:07.000 --> 00:09:09.600 And that's about it. And if the Oklahoma City Thunder 183 00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:12.799 and Indiana Pacers have proved anything to us as playoffs, 184 00:09:12.960 --> 00:09:17.000 it's the importance of not only having twelve to thirteen guys, 185 00:09:17.000 --> 00:09:19.879 but twelve to thirteen guys that can play efficiently and 186 00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:23.919 have that same influence and seamlessly replace the starters in 187 00:09:23.960 --> 00:09:27.559 the form of any basketball adversity. The New York Knicks 188 00:09:27.559 --> 00:09:30.440 do not have that right now. They play slow, They 189 00:09:30.440 --> 00:09:32.720 play in the half court, and they're top heavy with 190 00:09:32.759 --> 00:09:36.240 their Iron five. And there was once a time where 191 00:09:36.720 --> 00:09:38.559 you know what, if you have six to seven guys 192 00:09:38.600 --> 00:09:41.080 like the Hampton five with the Golden State Warriors, you 193 00:09:41.159 --> 00:09:43.519 just needed a Shawn Livingston off the bench. You just 194 00:09:43.600 --> 00:09:46.320 needed some David West and that was it. You could 195 00:09:46.399 --> 00:09:49.120 still win a title. I'm afraid those days have come 196 00:09:49.159 --> 00:09:51.720 and gone in the age of Payston space. 197 00:09:52.039 --> 00:09:54.200 Moving out this way, we'll end with the finals, but 198 00:09:54.279 --> 00:09:56.360 I did want to kind of kick the tires with 199 00:09:56.399 --> 00:09:58.399 you on where we find ourselves here in Salt leg 200 00:09:58.519 --> 00:10:01.159 with a team that's in during the fourth year of 201 00:10:01.200 --> 00:10:04.440 the post Mitchell Gobert Quinn Snyder group. That was really 202 00:10:04.519 --> 00:10:06.679 fun here for about eight nine years before it fell 203 00:10:06.679 --> 00:10:12.159 apart famously and dramatically. So Austin Ainge is brought in 204 00:10:12.240 --> 00:10:15.480 now is the president of basketball ops. Ryan Smith, the 205 00:10:15.519 --> 00:10:18.120 owner out here, said during his opening presser when he 206 00:10:18.159 --> 00:10:20.639 introduced Austin that he is now the guy. He's the 207 00:10:20.679 --> 00:10:23.120 loudest voice in the front office. All the final decisions 208 00:10:23.120 --> 00:10:26.440 will be his, meaning his dad Danny reports to him, 209 00:10:26.840 --> 00:10:31.519 and the general manager, Justin Zanik reports d Austin Ange. It's 210 00:10:31.519 --> 00:10:34.399 interesting the other thing they did, rob is you know, 211 00:10:34.559 --> 00:10:37.759 is they extended Will Hardy. You know, Tom Thibodeau goes 212 00:10:37.759 --> 00:10:40.120 to the Eastern Conference Finals, he loses his job. Will 213 00:10:40.120 --> 00:10:42.240 Hardy's won thirty three percent of his games and he 214 00:10:42.279 --> 00:10:45.720 has a contract through like twenty thirty one. So what 215 00:10:45.759 --> 00:10:49.320 they've done is solidified a coaching staff in a front 216 00:10:49.360 --> 00:10:53.879 office and giving them all long term extensions in the 217 00:10:53.919 --> 00:10:56.519 hopes that at some point the talent on the floor 218 00:10:57.200 --> 00:10:59.159 will look a little bit better that has prior to 219 00:11:00.360 --> 00:11:02.919 this will be year four, okay of this project that 220 00:11:03.039 --> 00:11:05.919 really hasn't brought a lot of progress. They were front 221 00:11:05.960 --> 00:11:10.080 facing about being on serious concerning competition last year to 222 00:11:10.080 --> 00:11:11.120 try to get the number one pick. 223 00:11:11.159 --> 00:11:12.399 It didn't work there at five. 224 00:11:13.039 --> 00:11:15.360 So what are your thoughts on a coaching staff in 225 00:11:15.440 --> 00:11:17.639 front office that is in place while talent on the 226 00:11:17.639 --> 00:11:19.919 floor is badly, badly needed here in Salt Lake. 227 00:11:20.919 --> 00:11:23.320 Yeah, Well, first of all, the coaches can't go on 228 00:11:23.360 --> 00:11:25.440 to the floor and play themselves, right, So you're gonna 229 00:11:25.480 --> 00:11:28.399 have to get some talented players out there at some point. 230 00:11:28.519 --> 00:11:31.600 Even the great red hourbacker John Woulden wouldn't be able 231 00:11:31.600 --> 00:11:35.519 to take last year's Jazz team to the Western Conference playoffs. Now, 232 00:11:35.840 --> 00:11:38.320 with Will Hardy, the example that I like to use 233 00:11:38.480 --> 00:11:41.679 is if he was a baseball pitcher, what do you 234 00:11:41.720 --> 00:11:44.879 think is more important their win loss record or their era? 235 00:11:46.279 --> 00:11:49.279 And you know the answer to this, right, yeah, sure, yeah, 236 00:11:49.399 --> 00:11:52.279 you like wins and losses is dependent on the bullpen 237 00:11:52.440 --> 00:11:54.720 on the offense that day, and you could have a 238 00:11:54.720 --> 00:11:56.919 seven point zero ERA on the best team and have 239 00:11:56.960 --> 00:11:59.960 a great win loss record that doesn't show a whole lot. 240 00:12:00.720 --> 00:12:03.799 So with Will Hardy, he's coaching a team that had 241 00:12:03.919 --> 00:12:08.360 a player participation policy violation last year because the Utah 242 00:12:08.480 --> 00:12:13.799 Jas failed to be properly announcing, you know, the presence 243 00:12:13.799 --> 00:12:15.960 of lowry market in for some of these games and 244 00:12:16.320 --> 00:12:19.639 getting accused of load management. So even the players that 245 00:12:19.720 --> 00:12:22.080 don't have the talent to compete at a championship level 246 00:12:22.080 --> 00:12:24.960 aren't even being provided, you know, to him, and every 247 00:12:25.000 --> 00:12:27.440 game was something different. There'd be a week of Walker 248 00:12:27.519 --> 00:12:30.559 Kessler out there with Sexton and Clarkson and then they'd 249 00:12:30.600 --> 00:12:32.519 be gone for a week. You know, I don't know 250 00:12:32.559 --> 00:12:35.080 many coaches that would be able to succeed. And Ryan 251 00:12:35.080 --> 00:12:37.919 Smith's a sharp guy, you know, certainly Danny Agees too, 252 00:12:38.000 --> 00:12:41.039 and they saw something in will Hardy that they feel 253 00:12:41.080 --> 00:12:46.320 like has longevity and sustainability towards whatever they're working towards. Now, 254 00:12:46.440 --> 00:12:48.720 Austin comes in, and I'm sure a lot of fans 255 00:12:48.720 --> 00:12:52.320 that don't understand, you know, the experience that he has 256 00:12:52.360 --> 00:12:55.279 probably just see that last name and think, oh, we 257 00:12:55.399 --> 00:12:59.120 know why he got this job, right, Is he qualified? Yeah? Like, listen, 258 00:12:59.159 --> 00:13:01.639 he's been with the bosson Celtics, have been responsible for 259 00:13:01.919 --> 00:13:04.519 a lot of their draft picks, coaching G League teams, 260 00:13:04.600 --> 00:13:07.279 you know, being in the being in the front office there, 261 00:13:07.320 --> 00:13:09.919 making a whole bunch of those this helping make a 262 00:13:09.960 --> 00:13:12.759 whole bunch of those decisions that ultimately led to a 263 00:13:12.840 --> 00:13:16.200 title in them being the favorites for a majority of 264 00:13:16.240 --> 00:13:18.919 this season before they were upset by the New York Knicks. 265 00:13:18.919 --> 00:13:21.399 So this is not just you know, tap it in 266 00:13:21.480 --> 00:13:25.480 the kid from a scene from Succession who has like 267 00:13:25.600 --> 00:13:28.440 no experience involved with parks and tourism and now you're 268 00:13:28.480 --> 00:13:32.559 the that senior vice president of this entire division. No, no, no, no. 269 00:13:32.720 --> 00:13:36.320 He has been in these trenches for many, many years. 270 00:13:36.360 --> 00:13:39.279 So if he's the loudest voice in the room, I 271 00:13:39.320 --> 00:13:42.799 think it's that cohesion that he has already with Ryan 272 00:13:42.840 --> 00:13:45.720 Smith and Will Hardy because of his father. That'll make 273 00:13:45.799 --> 00:13:48.840 this such a seamless transition. And it may not pay 274 00:13:48.919 --> 00:13:52.039 dividends right away because you brought it up yourself. This 275 00:13:52.080 --> 00:13:54.879 team just doesn't have the talent to compete. But the 276 00:13:54.960 --> 00:13:57.399 long term vision, you know, I trust them to make 277 00:13:57.399 --> 00:13:59.120 sharp decisions for sure. 278 00:13:59.159 --> 00:14:01.559 One more jazz thing along with the finals, because. 279 00:14:01.399 --> 00:14:03.720 You know, one of the things that's been interesting about 280 00:14:03.840 --> 00:14:07.320 trying to break down where the jazz are now and 281 00:14:07.360 --> 00:14:10.399 where they could be if some good decisions are made 282 00:14:10.440 --> 00:14:13.320 and then compound interest kicks in over time, is you 283 00:14:13.399 --> 00:14:17.000 try to measure them against It's unfair to do this 284 00:14:17.080 --> 00:14:19.960 because Oklahoma City is so good and they're so young, 285 00:14:20.559 --> 00:14:23.240 and they have so many assets at their disposal to 286 00:14:23.320 --> 00:14:26.240 continue to add talent when they have to make tough 287 00:14:26.279 --> 00:14:29.080 economic decisions with it, which they will in a few years. 288 00:14:29.600 --> 00:14:33.480 But the Mitchell and Gobert trades at the time were 289 00:14:33.720 --> 00:14:36.360 kind of met with his like, holy smokes, Danny Ainge 290 00:14:36.399 --> 00:14:38.720 got what for Rudy, He got that much for Gobert, 291 00:14:38.720 --> 00:14:40.799 and he got that much for And the reason I 292 00:14:40.840 --> 00:14:44.399 bring it up is essentially the main piece, well there 293 00:14:44.399 --> 00:14:46.120 are two main pieces, but the main piece they were 294 00:14:46.159 --> 00:14:48.720 able to get for. Mitchell has turned out to be 295 00:14:48.799 --> 00:14:52.080 Larry Lowry Markenen, who was a really good player in college. 296 00:14:52.080 --> 00:14:53.799 He was a Pac twelve kid when the Pac twelve 297 00:14:53.840 --> 00:14:58.799 existed at Arizona, and then he had some interesting moments 298 00:14:58.840 --> 00:15:02.240 in other stops Chicago, Cleveland, et cetera. Lands Here year 299 00:15:02.279 --> 00:15:05.440 one and when he was playing with ground ups Mike Conley, 300 00:15:05.559 --> 00:15:06.720 Kelly Olynock, et cetera. 301 00:15:06.960 --> 00:15:08.840 Made an All Star team. 302 00:15:09.200 --> 00:15:11.559 The past two years, when they've surrounded him with kids, 303 00:15:11.639 --> 00:15:14.080 quite frankly, he hasn't looked the same. And I don't 304 00:15:14.159 --> 00:15:16.799 view that as an diamond on him because I still 305 00:15:16.840 --> 00:15:18.399 think he can be a really good player for a 306 00:15:18.399 --> 00:15:19.480 team that is trying to win. 307 00:15:20.039 --> 00:15:21.159 But he also is twenty eight. 308 00:15:21.240 --> 00:15:23.440 He'll turn twenty nine next year, which is hilarious to 309 00:15:23.440 --> 00:15:25.120 bring that up as an ageish issue. 310 00:15:25.440 --> 00:15:28.200 But they're so far away that I don't know that 311 00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:30.000 he fits the timeline. Do you think they. 312 00:15:29.919 --> 00:15:31.919 Kick the tires on a market and move on a 313 00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:35.080 Kessler move to even reset this thing even more and 314 00:15:35.120 --> 00:15:37.960 start with number five this year, number twenty one next 315 00:15:38.240 --> 00:15:40.639 your number twenty one this year as well, and simply 316 00:15:40.679 --> 00:15:44.200 just play kids and try to develop their young talent 317 00:15:44.240 --> 00:15:45.840 and move off of market and Kessler. 318 00:15:45.879 --> 00:15:47.519 You think we see some movement this offseason. 319 00:15:48.480 --> 00:15:51.720 Yeah, I don't think there's any untouchables on that roster, 320 00:15:51.919 --> 00:15:54.399 even with Larry markinin. Who would be you know, the 321 00:15:54.399 --> 00:15:58.000 most desirable asset of any team that feels like they 322 00:15:58.000 --> 00:16:01.799 are one seven foot three and d guy away from 323 00:16:02.120 --> 00:16:05.679 being NBA champions, Right, And it certainly hurt that the 324 00:16:05.799 --> 00:16:08.519 Jazz didn't get a top two, top three pick because 325 00:16:08.559 --> 00:16:11.639 the whole point of keeping these guys on the roster was, well, 326 00:16:11.679 --> 00:16:14.200 if we get Cooper Flagg or an Ace Bailey or 327 00:16:14.200 --> 00:16:16.519 whoever is at the top here, you know we can 328 00:16:16.639 --> 00:16:20.159 hit the ground running and return to playoff relevancy because 329 00:16:20.159 --> 00:16:22.799 of the lowie market and Walker Kessler. But falling that 330 00:16:22.879 --> 00:16:25.000 far down into the draft, you're really going to have 331 00:16:25.039 --> 00:16:28.639 to find I say, diamond in the rough. Like the 332 00:16:28.759 --> 00:16:31.879 number five pick has these expectations the equivalent of the 333 00:16:31.879 --> 00:16:34.639 second rounder. But we know that there's a pretty significant 334 00:16:34.679 --> 00:16:37.519 difference between Cooper Flag and the rest of the field, 335 00:16:37.840 --> 00:16:40.519 So I think that will change. You know, they what 336 00:16:40.519 --> 00:16:43.600 their design is for this franchise moving forward. In the 337 00:16:43.600 --> 00:16:46.480 Oklahoma City example is what everyone is trying to replicate 338 00:16:46.519 --> 00:16:48.759 by the way. You know, coming into the twenty four 339 00:16:48.759 --> 00:16:50.919 to twenty five season, everyone was trying to be the 340 00:16:50.960 --> 00:16:54.039 Boston Celtics. They have success shooting threes, so we're going 341 00:16:54.120 --> 00:16:57.000 to shoot threes too. Guess what happened When the Charlotte 342 00:16:57.039 --> 00:16:59.639 Hornets at ten fifty five threes in the night, It 343 00:16:59.679 --> 00:17:02.679 does not hit the same like the Boston Celtics. You 344 00:17:02.679 --> 00:17:04.720 are not the Boston Celtics and you need to stop 345 00:17:04.759 --> 00:17:08.400 emulating them. I think the same theory applies to Oklahoma 346 00:17:08.480 --> 00:17:12.160 City too. Now, it's certainly admirable that they were on 347 00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:15.119 this four year plan where the Jazz are right now, 348 00:17:15.160 --> 00:17:17.960 like the Thunder were so bad they were losing games 349 00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:21.319 by seventy plus points to the Memphis Grizzlies with some 350 00:17:21.400 --> 00:17:24.279 of those rosters right they were stacking up their draft picks, 351 00:17:24.319 --> 00:17:27.480 they were getting healthy, they were assembling in the shadows. 352 00:17:27.759 --> 00:17:29.680 But there was two to three years where they had 353 00:17:29.680 --> 00:17:32.960 to go through it, and then their young talent got 354 00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:36.160 so good so quickly that shake builds with Alexander and 355 00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:38.839 Josh Giddy led that team to the play In Tournament 356 00:17:38.839 --> 00:17:41.599 as the ten seed, of which they ultimately lost in. 357 00:17:42.079 --> 00:17:44.039 But then that next year they end up tying from 358 00:17:44.039 --> 00:17:46.680 the number one overall seat in the Western Conference with 359 00:17:46.759 --> 00:17:49.720 their second round exit and then shake guilds as Alexander 360 00:17:49.759 --> 00:17:53.079 becomes MVP in year four when OKACE is clearly the 361 00:17:53.119 --> 00:17:55.960 best team. So now someone like the Utah Jazz is saying, 362 00:17:55.960 --> 00:17:59.000 how can we do that? How can we grow our 363 00:17:59.079 --> 00:18:03.720 talent internal and then not have to stack our assets, 364 00:18:04.039 --> 00:18:06.799 not have to trade for a mercenary and do this 365 00:18:06.920 --> 00:18:11.680 the slow, methodical, authentic way, And someone like the Houston 366 00:18:11.720 --> 00:18:14.160 Rockets is trying to do that right now, right that 367 00:18:14.200 --> 00:18:17.160 they are refusing to trade their core the Amen Thompson's 368 00:18:17.200 --> 00:18:20.359 and the Jalen Greens for Kevin Durant's out there. You 369 00:18:20.400 --> 00:18:22.319 want to beat the Golden State Warriors like they lost 370 00:18:22.319 --> 00:18:24.160 in Game seven this year, if you have Kevin Durant, 371 00:18:24.319 --> 00:18:27.400 that certainly wouldn't have been the case. Well, by trading 372 00:18:27.400 --> 00:18:29.960 for Kevin Durant, you do trade some of your long 373 00:18:30.079 --> 00:18:31.880 term future as well, right because they're not going to 374 00:18:31.920 --> 00:18:34.839 give them to you for free. The biggest question here though, 375 00:18:35.039 --> 00:18:37.440 is Jazz fans need to think about this too. Who's 376 00:18:37.480 --> 00:18:40.680 your Shae Gilds is, Alexander, if you're trying to replicate 377 00:18:40.839 --> 00:18:44.240 what OKAC has accomplished, You're going to need someone to 378 00:18:44.319 --> 00:18:48.920 ascend to MVP status, doesn't actually have to win the award, 379 00:18:48.960 --> 00:18:51.319 but finish on the podium. And that's why I think 380 00:18:51.359 --> 00:18:54.799 Houston's gonna fall short because Jalen Green and alpahin Shangoon 381 00:18:55.079 --> 00:18:57.720 do not qualify for that right now, Who on the 382 00:18:57.839 --> 00:19:01.799 Utah Jazz can be that guy that franchise cornerstone that 383 00:19:01.799 --> 00:19:05.319 will affords you the luxury of time to do this 384 00:19:05.480 --> 00:19:07.759 the right way. I don't know if that's on the 385 00:19:07.839 --> 00:19:08.680 roster right now. 386 00:19:09.039 --> 00:19:10.119 Yeah, I don't think that it is. 387 00:19:10.160 --> 00:19:11.759 And that's why I kind of always bring up the 388 00:19:11.799 --> 00:19:16.440 Mitchell trade in context, like ultimately, maybe at the time 389 00:19:16.759 --> 00:19:20.519 when both Indiana and OKAC, ironically enough moved on from 390 00:19:20.519 --> 00:19:23.759 Paul George, Paul was probably thought to be a little 391 00:19:23.759 --> 00:19:26.240 bit better of a player than Donovan was three years ago. 392 00:19:26.279 --> 00:19:30.200 But Donovan's gone on to First Team All NBA in Cleveland. 393 00:19:30.720 --> 00:19:33.920 And you know what Oklahoma City was able to turn 394 00:19:33.960 --> 00:19:37.960 Paul George into was SGA and five draft picks, one 395 00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:40.960 of which turned into Jalen and the Jazz didn't turn 396 00:19:41.000 --> 00:19:42.400 Mitchell into a star. 397 00:19:42.720 --> 00:19:42.920 Yet. 398 00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:45.079 There are plenty of picks that will convey then maybe 399 00:19:45.079 --> 00:19:47.440 they can find a diamond in the rough. But whenever 400 00:19:47.480 --> 00:19:49.880 I try to analyze the Jazz against some of these 401 00:19:49.920 --> 00:19:52.720