Speaker 1: Hello, it is Ryan, and we could all use an
Speaker 1: extra bright spot in our day, couldn't we just to
Speaker 1: make up for things like sitting in traffic, doing the dishes,
Speaker 1: counting or steps, you know, all the mundane stuff. That
Speaker 1: is why I'm such a big fan of Chumba Casino.
Speaker 1: Chumbuck Casino has all your favorite social casino style games
Speaker 1: you can play for free anytime anywhere, with daily bonuses
Speaker 1: that ship brighten your day. Lowe actually a lot, so
Speaker 1: sign up now at Chumbuck Casino dot com. That's Chumbuck
Speaker 1: Casino dot com.
Speaker 2: No pers necessary, lapod where everybody lost he terms conditions
Speaker 2: eight plus okay, round two Name something that's not boring, laundry,
Speaker 2: a book club, computer solitaire. Huh oh, Sorry, we were
Speaker 2: looking for Chumbu Casino.
Speaker 1: Chum.
Speaker 2: That's right, Chumbuck Casino dot com as over one hundred
Speaker 2: casino style games joined today and playing for free for
Speaker 2: your chance to redeem some serious prizes. Chum Chumbucasino dot com.
Speaker 2: Process word by long eighty plus terms the conditions of
Speaker 2: plus agree.
Speaker 3: You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking
Speaker 3: killers in true crime history and the authors that have
Speaker 3: written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. Every
Speaker 3: week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and
Speaker 3: infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your
Speaker 3: host journalist and author Dan Zufanski. Finding great candidates to
Speaker 3: hire can be like trying to find a needle in
Speaker 3: a haystack. Sure, you can post your job to some
Speaker 3: job board, but then all you can do is hope
Speaker 3: the right person comes along, which is why you should
Speaker 3: try zip recruiter for free at ZipRecruiter dot com slash murder.
Speaker 3: ZipRecruiter does the work for you. When you post a
Speaker 3: job on ZipRecruiter, it gets sent to over one hundred
Speaker 3: top job sites with one click. Then, zip Recruiter's matching
Speaker 3: technology finds people with the right skills and experience for
Speaker 3: your job and actively invites them to apply. You get
Speaker 3: qualified candidates fast, so while other services may overwhelm you
Speaker 3: with applications to sift through, ZipRecruiter finds you what you're
Speaker 3: looking for, the needle in the haystack. In fact, ZipRecruiter
Speaker 3: is so effective that four out of five employers who
Speaker 3: post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate through the site
Speaker 3: within the first day and right now you can try
Speaker 3: ZipRecruiter for free at ZipRecruiter dot com slash murder. That's
Speaker 3: ZipRecruiter dot com.
Speaker 4: Slash you are d er. Just go to ZipRecruiter dot
Speaker 4: com slash murder. Zip recruiter the Smartest way to hire
Speaker 4: Good Evening Angela was stabbed forty four times. This was personal.
Speaker 4: On the November morning in twenty and fifteen, Christopher Jackson
Speaker 4: waited for his fiancee, Angela Wylder to pick him up
Speaker 4: from work, as she always did, but this time she
Speaker 4: didn't show and Christopher's calls went unanswered. The police found
Speaker 4: what looked like a scene from a horror movie at
Speaker 4: their home. The back door kicked in, a bedroom splattered
Speaker 4: with blood, and a pregnant young woman violently stabbed to death.
Speaker 4: Could Christopher had murdered the woman he claimed to love,
Speaker 4: or was the crime done by an intruder Angela had
Speaker 4: feared for weeks. Angela's womanizing ex husband, Richie Wilder Junior,
Speaker 4: aimed detective straight towards Christopher. The evidence, however, pointed squarely
Speaker 4: at Richie. Kindergarten teacher Cynthia Wilder thought her dreams had
Speaker 4: come true when she married Richie, But while her husband
Speaker 4: sat behind bars, Cynthia grew lonely. When she shared some
Speaker 4: disturbing details with a former lover, Cynthia finally revealed the
Speaker 4: truth behind the sinister plot to kill Angela Wylder after
Speaker 4: four years of lies and deceit. The real story would
Speaker 4: shock a community to its very core. The book that
Speaker 4: we're featuring this evening is Wilder Intentions, Love, Lies and
Speaker 4: Murder in North Dakota with my special guest, journalist and
Speaker 4: author CJ. Winn. Welcome to the program, and thank you
Speaker 4: so much for this interview. CJ. Winn.
Speaker 5: Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it
Speaker 5: very much.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for joining us with this remarkable
Speaker 4: book and remarkable case just open. I wanted to know
Speaker 4: how you came to this case and maybe had this
Speaker 4: opportunity to talk about the assistant you received from author
Speaker 4: best selling author Shanna Hogan.
Speaker 5: Sure.
Speaker 6: So, I'm originally from North Dakota, and while I don't
Speaker 6: still live there, you know many friends still live there,
Speaker 6: a lot of my family still live there, and so
Speaker 6: I had heard about this case. It was being talked
Speaker 6: about on social media. They were doing a Dateline episode
Speaker 6: about it in October, sorry, August of twenty eighteen, and so,
Speaker 6: being someone who watches every Dateline episode, of course, you know,
Speaker 6: I caught the episode and then I just kind of
Speaker 6: decided from there that there had to be more of
Speaker 6: the story than what was presented in the sixty minute
Speaker 6: episode of Dateline. And so I actually reached out to Shannahogan,
Speaker 6: who was one of my favorite true crime authors. I'd
Speaker 6: never met her before, and I just sent her an
Speaker 6: email and asked her if she could maybe give me
Speaker 6: some pointers on how to get started in writing true crime.
Speaker 6: And to my surprise, she responded back within just a
Speaker 6: few days and we set up a meeting, and so
Speaker 6: she kind of gave me some pointers. She had just
Speaker 6: finished writing her fourth book, was getting ready to get
Speaker 6: that published. She had just finished that, and so she
Speaker 6: kind of had some open time and so kind of
Speaker 6: decided that she wanted to take on, you.
Speaker 5: Know, mentoring me through the process.
Speaker 6: So she was an excellent person to go to anytime
Speaker 6: I ran into any issues, any questions I had, So
Speaker 6: she was instrumental in all of that.
Speaker 4: Now, that's obviously she recognized your passion for writing and
Speaker 4: your potential let's get to November twelfth, twenty and fifteen,
Speaker 4: and you introduced the central characters, Christopher Jackson and he
Speaker 4: works at Walmart and his fiancee has introduced in the introduction,
Speaker 4: Angela Wilder, calls in that work or they talk at work.
Speaker 4: So what is the gist of the conversation specifically when
Speaker 4: they talk, what is she telling him is going on
Speaker 4: around the house that night?
Speaker 6: Sure, so he worked overnight shifts at Walmart from ten
Speaker 6: pm to seven am, and it was pretty standard that
Speaker 6: they talked all throughout the night, whether it was text,
Speaker 6: messager calling. He would call her on his first break,
Speaker 6: his second break, his third break, and then they would
Speaker 6: kind of text in between. Usually it was just to
Speaker 6: say hi, just to make sure Angela was doing okay.
Speaker 6: They had a young son at home with them. She
Speaker 6: had just found out she was pregnant again at this
Speaker 6: time on November twelve, twenty fifteen. But on this particular night,
Speaker 6: the conversation was a little bit different. She was a
Speaker 6: little bit nervous. She thought that she heard noises coming outside,
Speaker 6: coming from outside. She thought that someone was maybe even
Speaker 6: trying to jiggle the door open to the front door
Speaker 6: of their house and so he just kind of told her, Hey,
Speaker 6: it's okay, don't worry. It's right, it's the neighbors, not
Speaker 6: a big deal.
Speaker 4: So they also promised her. He promised her too, that
Speaker 4: he would call again. She complained about being tired, and
Speaker 4: he knew she was overworked trying to do these nursing
Speaker 4: classes and also be taking care of the children and pregnant,
Speaker 4: so he knew that her being tired was justified. So
Speaker 4: what happened with their correspondence during this his shit at Walmart?
Speaker 6: Sure, so, just like always, he called her on his
Speaker 6: first break at midnight, and then he called her again
Speaker 6: on his lunch break at two am, and they talked
Speaker 6: for a few minutes, and then when he called her
Speaker 6: on his third break at five am, she did not
Speaker 6: answer the phone anymore, and he thought it was kind
Speaker 6: of strange.
Speaker 5: But you know, like you had mentioned, he knew that
Speaker 5: she was stressed out about school, she was tired, she.
Speaker 6: Had just wound out, she was pregnant, so she was
Speaker 6: kind of already feeling those initial signs, and so he thought,
Speaker 6: you know, she probably just fallen asleep. He wanted to
Speaker 6: let her get her rest. In fact, he then text
Speaker 6: messaged her at about five thirteen am and then said,
Speaker 6: you know, I hope you're getting some.
Speaker 5: Rest, sweetheart. I love you. I'll see you in a
Speaker 5: few hours.
Speaker 4: And okay, so she was okay, go ahead, Oh no,
Speaker 4: I was I was going to say.
Speaker 6: And then she was scheduled to pick him up at
Speaker 6: seven am that morning, and he still could not get
Speaker 6: in touch with her. She still was not answering the
Speaker 6: phone even at that time.
Speaker 4: Okay, So he gets in the cab and gets back home.
Speaker 4: What does he notice right away? And what does he
Speaker 4: what does he see? What does he discover?
Speaker 6: So he kind of starts to theorize with him maybe
Speaker 6: her phone fell on the floor, maybe it's barry underneath
Speaker 6: the blankets, and she's just you know, sleeping hard. And
Speaker 6: so he didn't really know if he should be kind
Speaker 6: of annoyed with her or if he should be just
Speaker 6: more understanding that, you know, that she needed her rest.
Speaker 6: And so, yeah, like you said, he got into a cab,
Speaker 6: got home. He was about seven seven minute drive till
Speaker 6: till they got to their house, and the cab driver
Speaker 6: actually ended up missing their house and actually parked into
Speaker 6: the driveway of the neighbor's house, which their bedroom Christopher
Speaker 6: and Angela's bedroom window actually overlooked that driveway, and so
Speaker 6: when he got out of the cab, he kind of
Speaker 6: used the opportunity to be a little funny, and so
Speaker 6: he started knocking on their bedroom window, thinking, well, she's sleeping,
Speaker 6: that's definitely gonna wake her up. But he did that
Speaker 6: a couple more times, and she still didn't come to
Speaker 6: the window. She still wasn't answering any text messages. So
Speaker 6: he kind of went around the other side of the
Speaker 6: house where her car was in their own driveway, and
Speaker 6: I think almost subconsciously, Christopher thought to himself that if
Speaker 6: the car was warm, there was a chance that maybe
Speaker 6: she had just woken up late. Maybe she'd gone out
Speaker 6: to start the car but realized she was going to
Speaker 6: be too late to pick him up anyways, and just
Speaker 6: got back in. But then he touched the car and
Speaker 6: the car was cold. And then that's kind of when
Speaker 6: something hid him that something might be wrong. So then
Speaker 6: he turned around and looked at their house and found
Speaker 6: that their back door was actually standing wide open.
Speaker 4: Now he yelled for his wife, Angela fiance, and no response.
Speaker 4: Why did he not run in and see what the
Speaker 4: welfare of his son and his wife was and what
Speaker 4: did he do?
Speaker 5: Right? Right?
Speaker 4: So?
Speaker 6: Right, So as he walked towards the door, he did
Speaker 6: notice that it appeared to have been kicked in. It
Speaker 6: wasn't just standing open on its own. It hadn't just
Speaker 6: been opened and just blown open and had been kicked in.
Speaker 6: The lock mechanism was stripped out of the you know,
Speaker 6: the wood in the door. And so, like you said, yeah,
Speaker 6: he did yell in there, and I think to him
Speaker 6: he just felt something wasn't right and he recognized and
Speaker 6: I think he was afraid. He was terrified that if
Speaker 6: he went in there, he was going to find something
Speaker 6: he didn't want to see.
Speaker 5: And so what he ended up.
Speaker 6: Doing is he just stepped right back out and called
Speaker 6: nine to one one.
Speaker 4: So police arrive. They want to make sure that he
Speaker 4: does not go into this house regardless, and they need
Speaker 4: to make a welfare check. So that's what this is about.
Speaker 4: They go inside, everything is clean and immaculate, but there's
Speaker 4: a locked bedroom door. They eventually have to kick that
Speaker 4: door down. What do they find? What's the state of
Speaker 4: Angela in that room?
Speaker 6: So when they first walk in, you know, the house
Speaker 6: was immaculately clean. There was no sign of any kind
Speaker 6: of a struggle. They kicked the bedroom door down and
Speaker 6: they walked in and they found that that even though
Speaker 6: that linens on the bed were kind of rumpled and
Speaker 6: messed up, there was nobody in the bed. But as
Speaker 6: they walked further in, they could see that there were
Speaker 6: numerous blood stains on the sheets. There were bloodstains soaked
Speaker 6: into the sheets where Angela probably would have been laying
Speaker 6: while she was sleeping, their bloodstains on the pillow where
Speaker 6: her head was probably And then as they walked further
Speaker 6: around the side of the bed, they saw Angela Wilder's
Speaker 6: body on the floor. She was lying in a pool
Speaker 6: of blood and essentially her entire body was covered with
Speaker 6: blood and what they eventually determined were stab wounds.
Speaker 4: Now they obviously know that this is a serious crime scene.
Speaker 4: They have to secure that Sergeant Dave Goodman is called
Speaker 4: from the officer or ruel that was at the scene.
Speaker 4: And again, like I said, they secured the scene and
Speaker 4: made sure that the Christopher didn't do anything regard regardless
Speaker 4: of his protestations anyway. And then they also right away
Speaker 4: had the called the Deputy State Attorney Kelly Dillon to
Speaker 4: get a search warrant, so that was all taken care of.
Speaker 4: And then also the issue of the small son, Carter,
Speaker 4: while Christopher was being questioned, so social services came in
Speaker 4: or they dealt with his son while he was being questioned. Now,
Speaker 4: tell us a little bit about this questioning and what
Speaker 4: did they just initially before them makes a decision on
Speaker 4: what happened exactly what was the state of her body
Speaker 4: in terms of wounds, stab wounds.
Speaker 6: Well, they weren't able to make a total determination right
Speaker 6: there at the scene, but once the crime scene unit
Speaker 6: came in and started looking, they noted, you know, that
Speaker 6: her chest had been riddled with wounds, several cuts and
Speaker 6: stab wounds. The side of her neck there was a
Speaker 6: gaping wound on the side of her neck which it
Speaker 6: created a significant amount of blood underneath her torso, her
Speaker 6: head and torso. And then one of the most significant
Speaker 6: things that the crime scene unit found, and that was
Speaker 6: Officer Sergeant Jessica Sundheim is Angela was still wearing her
Speaker 6: night clothes, so she had on a tank top and
Speaker 6: then she also had on a pair of turquoise underwear
Speaker 6: and on the underwear there was actually bloodstains and the
Speaker 6: perfect shape of a knife blade, and so what she,
Speaker 6: Jessica Sundheim wrote in her report is that the assailant
Speaker 6: had obviously stopped for a minute and wiped off the
Speaker 6: blade on both sides of it on Angela's underwear.
Speaker 4: And police determined very quickly that this is not a
Speaker 4: home invasion gone wrong. There's no theft. This is just
Speaker 4: a deeply personal murder, isn't it.
Speaker 6: Yeah, And you know, it didn't really take long for
Speaker 6: them to know Angela was not from North Dakota.
Speaker 5: She was a transplant from Alabama.
Speaker 6: She had moved there a few years earlier with her
Speaker 6: former husband, Richie Wilder Junior, because he joined the military.
Speaker 6: There's a military base there, air Force base there in Minot.
Speaker 6: And so through kind of initial interviews with Christopher and
Speaker 6: you know, some of Angela's family members calling in, they
Speaker 6: realized that Angela really didn't have a network friends in
Speaker 6: minut It was her and Christopher, her children, and the
Speaker 6: only real outside relationship she had with that was that
Speaker 6: with her ex husband, Richie Wilder Junior. She didn't have
Speaker 6: a network of friends, She didn't have any family around her,
Speaker 6: and so it didn't take very long for them to
Speaker 6: figure out that it had to be personal and there
Speaker 6: was only one or two people that could have possibly
Speaker 6: done it.
Speaker 4: So right away they have to focus and eliminate Christopher Jackson.
Speaker 4: So they take him for questioning and they get from him.
Speaker 4: They have to get it from somebody the dating and
Speaker 4: marital history also of not only he and Angela, but
Speaker 4: also Richie in Angela. So tell us what they learn
Speaker 4: about this dating and marital history of all these folks.
Speaker 6: Sure, so, Christopher and Angela had been high school sweethearts.
Speaker 6: They had dated off and on throughout high school, and
Speaker 6: then Angela had kind of when she graduate from high school,
Speaker 6: she had kind of moved on. She had went off
Speaker 6: to college for a little bit. She had had another
Speaker 6: relationship with someone, she had a daughter with that person.
Speaker 6: When that didn't work out, she moved back home where
Speaker 6: she kind of reconnected with Richie Wilder Junior, whom she
Speaker 6: had known also in early childhood through their Mormon church.
Speaker 6: And you know, once she reconnected with rich Wilder Junior,
Speaker 6: it didn't really take long for them to decide that
Speaker 6: they wanted to date. And then from there it really
Speaker 6: didn't take long for them to decided they wanted to
Speaker 6: get married and shortly after they got married, and that's
Speaker 6: when Richie joined the Air Force and they moved up
Speaker 6: to Mina at North Dakota, and within about a year
Speaker 6: they were already having severe marital issues. They'd only been
Speaker 6: married for about two years. They had a second child
Speaker 6: on the way, and shortly after their second child was
Speaker 6: born in March of twenty twelve, they were in they
Speaker 6: were in court to get a divorce, and so their
Speaker 6: divorce was finalized in the spring of twenty thirteen, and
Speaker 6: she traveled back to Alabama and then her and Christopher
Speaker 6: reconnected and then a few months later she found out
Speaker 6: that she was pregnant with her and Christopher's baby, and
Speaker 6: so he moved up to Mina because Richie would not
Speaker 6: allow Angela to move back home to Alaba, Alabama, and
Speaker 6: so Christopher moved up to Mina, and so that's where
Speaker 6: they had been for two years at the time.
Speaker 5: And for murder in twenty fifteen.
Speaker 4: Now this Cynthia, what's her background and what's her status
Speaker 4: with Richie at this time in November of twenty fifteen.
Speaker 6: Sure so in twenty fifteen November twenty fifteen, Richie and
Speaker 6: Cynthia Wilder had been married for about two years. Coincidentally,
Speaker 6: right out about the same time that Angelo was reconnecting
Speaker 6: with Christopher, Richie was connecting with Cynthia Wilder. At the time,
Speaker 6: they worked together at a vocational center in Mine. Not
Speaker 6: they were just kind of acquaintance acquaintances at work, you know,
Speaker 6: they passed by each other as shift change and things
Speaker 6: like that. But Cynthia was really curious about him. She
Speaker 6: had been kind of dating someone else, but it wasn't
Speaker 6: really working out. They was more like friends with benefits,
Speaker 6: and she had kind of gotten sick of that cycle,
Speaker 6: and so she started recognizing Richie and so it was
Speaker 6: her that actually reached out to him, and that would
Speaker 6: have been actually New Year's Eve of New Year's Eve
Speaker 6: of twenty twelve, and then within just a couple of months,
Speaker 6: Richie and Cynthia were living together in by March twenty thirteen,
Speaker 6: Cynthia was pregnant, and then by May twenty thirteen I
Speaker 6: believe they were married too. So in you know, late
Speaker 6: spring early summer twenty thirteen, both Richie and Angela had
Speaker 6: essentially moved on to new partners.
Speaker 4: Let's get back to the police investigating in this. Sergeant
Speaker 4: Goodman and detective Matisse. Once they talked to Christopher and
Speaker 4: once they established what do they gleam from Christopher Jackson
Speaker 4: in terms of just their gut feeling about his culpability
Speaker 4: or involvement in this murder, before we talk about their
Speaker 4: approach and they're speaking with Richie Wilder.
Speaker 6: Sure, so one of the first things that you know
Speaker 6: that we talked about is Christopher didn't go into the house.
Speaker 6: And that was one of the first red flags for
Speaker 6: the detectives is how could this man not have run
Speaker 6: into his house if there was a chance his family
Speaker 6: was hurt inside, And that was something that really stuck
Speaker 6: with them. They were really bothered by that. But then
Speaker 6: after about an hour of talking to Christopher, they knew
Speaker 6: that this man had just had his entire world up,
Speaker 6: you know, upside down. In a manner of minutes, they
Speaker 6: questioned him a second time. He submitted to a polygraph.
Speaker 6: His tory never changed once he passed the polygraph, and
Speaker 6: then everyone that they were talking to, all of Angela's
Speaker 6: family members, were all pointing towards Richie, and so it
Speaker 6: wasn't very It didn't take very long for the detectives
Speaker 6: to realize that it was probably more likely Richie because
Speaker 6: him and Angela had a contentious past. They still had
Speaker 6: a contentious relationship because of custody of issues and things
Speaker 6: like that, and so it really didn't take long to
Speaker 6: shift that focus at all away from Christopher.
Speaker 4: Now they record every bit of the interactions with Richie,
Speaker 4: so Richie is informed they go to inform him about
Speaker 4: what has happened with his wife. So they're they're getting
Speaker 4: his reaction to this news as well, and they're also
Speaker 4: gauging and noting and studying his reaction to everything that
Speaker 4: they're going to ask him about this investigation, since they're
Speaker 4: keying in as a next logical suspect in all of this.
Speaker 4: So what does Richie say, How does he act? Give
Speaker 4: us a little bit, as you do in the book,
Speaker 4: a scene on how he reacts to the police questioning him.
Speaker 6: Sure, so Richie was brought down on the police station
Speaker 6: actually just a few hours after Christopher Jackson was, and
Speaker 6: they were actually seated in rooms right next to each other,
Speaker 6: although neither of the men knew it at the time,
Speaker 6: but Richie kind of walked in with an air confidence
Speaker 6: about him, you know, he had kind of alluded to
Speaker 6: the police that he'd heard maybe a snippet here there
Speaker 6: something was going on at his ex wife's house, but
Speaker 6: he wasn't really sure his wife had the I'm Cynthia
Speaker 6: Wilder had dropped off their older daughter that Angela and
Speaker 6: Richie shared together. Had dropped off their older daughter at
Speaker 6: the elementary school across from Angela's house. Cynthia called Richie
Speaker 6: to let him know that there was police tape over
Speaker 6: there were police cars over there. But you know, Richie,
Speaker 6: when he came into the police department, police department had
Speaker 6: sat down with detectives. He just just figured it was
Speaker 6: another day in the life of Angela to have police
Speaker 6: cars all around her house. It's just how Angela lived
Speaker 6: her life. There was always drama going on around her.
Speaker 6: So when he was finally told that Angela had been murdered,
Speaker 6: he showed absolutely no reaction whatsoever. He literally just kind
Speaker 6: of shrugged his shoulders and said, oh really, And that
Speaker 6: was a huge red flag for them, and they and
Speaker 6: they and the detectives immediately pounced on it, you know,
Speaker 6: and said he listened. We know that your your ex partners,
Speaker 6: your ex spouses, but when you find out something like
Speaker 6: this happens to someone that you once loved there is
Speaker 6: a visceral reaction ship that should happen here. And once
Speaker 6: they kind of called him on that, and then, you know,
Speaker 6: another thing that they they saw right away is that
Speaker 6: Richie had had what appeared to be a fresh scratch.
Speaker 5: On his face.
Speaker 6: Right and they knew all they knew already that Angela
Speaker 6: had likely fought pretty hard for her life. She had
Speaker 6: broken fingernails, you know, the curn scene unit had had
Speaker 6: found that, and so right away when Dave Goodman saw
Speaker 6: that scratch on his face, it was like a you know,
Speaker 6: just right away, something happened here, you know, and Richie, Richie,
Speaker 6: Richie really really never answered any question directly. He kind
Speaker 6: of went back and forth, He went in circles, He mumbled,
Speaker 6: he stuttered, He all the signs of someone who just
Speaker 6: wasn't telling the truth. And it was very obvious. And
Speaker 6: then once they kind of started to tell him he
Speaker 6: doesn't look good for you here, then he.
Speaker 5: Got real nervous.
Speaker 6: His you know, his his legs started pumping dumb it down.
Speaker 6: He started ringing his fingers together, swallowing hard.
Speaker 5: You know, it was just it was it was very
Speaker 5: obvious that he was hiding.
Speaker 4: Something at this first interview that he spoke to police,
Speaker 4: what does he say about Christopher and how does he
Speaker 4: sort of direct their suspicions towards Christopher.
Speaker 6: Initially, Sure, well, he first of all says that he
Speaker 6: first of all says that Christopher is a nice guy,
Speaker 6: that the two children that he shared with Angela, as
Speaker 6: far as you know, Christopher becoming their stepdad one day,
Speaker 6: he's fine with that.
Speaker 5: How he kind of.
Speaker 6: Manipulated and turned it around to how Christopher might have
Speaker 6: done something is by painting Angela as someone who may
Speaker 6: have deserved to have something like this happened to her.
Speaker 6: That he could understand if Christopher had done something like
Speaker 6: this because Angela was difficult to live with, a difficult person.
Speaker 6: She caused problems for basically everyone who came around her,
Speaker 6: and I think that's what they tried to What they
Speaker 6: tried to do is that Angela causes relationship issues with
Speaker 6: every with many people, including Christopher, and therefore he could
Speaker 6: understand if Christopher had done something like this.
Speaker 4: They also press him many times when he makes it,
Speaker 4: tries to cite examples, but with the out any specific
Speaker 4: so they're not easy on him. There's they're sort of
Speaker 4: pressing him when they see that he is is rattled
Speaker 4: and not so confident. But they really don't get too
Speaker 4: much out of him, except now they have to get
Speaker 4: a search warrant for his wife's vehicle. Why is that
Speaker 4: tell us about what they have to get a warrant for?
Speaker 4: And why.
Speaker 5: Sure?
Speaker 6: Well, they mean, you know, they acted very quickly. They
Speaker 6: didn't waste any time. They got warrant secured for Richie's vehicle,
Speaker 6: Cynthia's vehicle, their apartment. They're electronics, Christopher's electronics, you know,
Speaker 6: Christopher's car, his computers, everything like that. And so that afternoon,
Speaker 6: the same afternoon in Angela's body was found, they were
Speaker 6: at Cynthia Wilder's elementary school that she taught kindergarten at,
Speaker 6: checking her vehicle. And that was at you know, three
Speaker 6: point thirty in the afternoon. Angela Wilder's body was found
Speaker 6: at you know, shortly after seven am. And so within
Speaker 6: just a you know, by the end of the day,
Speaker 6: they were up they're already executing all these warrants.
Speaker 4: They also had to speak to Cynthia as well, because
Speaker 4: there is a possibility that he has to you know,
Speaker 4: when he spoke. He also had an alibi for that evening.
Speaker 4: So tell us about the alibi, and now, of course
Speaker 4: the detectives need to speak to her, see what she
Speaker 4: has to say.
Speaker 6: Yeah, So, Richie's alibi was that he worked that night.
Speaker 6: He was working as a CNA at Trinity Hospital. His
Speaker 6: alibi is that he worked from seven to eleven PM
Speaker 6: that night and that he went directly home afterwards, and
Speaker 6: that he never left his house again. His wife corroborate,
Speaker 6: corroborated that story. Later that afternoon, Cynthia Wilder said that
Speaker 6: they were home in bed, that one of their children
Speaker 6: had woken up twice during the middle of the night
Speaker 6: and she had tended to those while Richie was still
Speaker 6: fast asleep. She said that he was home the entire night.
Speaker 6: They were both very steadfast and saying that he never
Speaker 6: left the house us that night.
Speaker 4: Let's use this as an opportunity to stop for these messages.
Speaker 1: It is Ryan here and I have a question for you.
Speaker 1: What do you do when you win?
Speaker 5: Like?
Speaker 1: Are you a fist pumper, a woo, a handclapper, a
Speaker 1: high fiver? I kind of like the high five. But
Speaker 1: if you want to hone in on those winning moves,
Speaker 1: check out Chumbuck Casino at chumbacasino dot com. Choose from
Speaker 1: hundreds of social casino style games for your chance to
Speaker 1: redeem serious cash prize. There are new game releases weekly,
Speaker 1: plus free daily bonuses, so don't wait start having the
Speaker 1: most fun ever at chumbacasino dot com.
Speaker 6: No for necessary daily where everybody lost the terms conditions
Speaker 6: eighteen plus.
Speaker 4: So CJ. Now they had this opportunity to speak to Cynthia,
Speaker 4: his wife, and to Richie. Now, how did they proceed
Speaker 4: with their investigation from there? Given the information that both
Speaker 4: of these people gave them, tell us about the vehicle
Speaker 4: search of the vehicle.
Speaker 6: Sure, so, while they were searching the vehicle, they had
Speaker 6: Cynthia Wilder in the principal's office at Loos and Clark
Speaker 6: Elementary School, which I mentioned she taught kindergarten. She basically
Speaker 6: had the same reaction as Richie.
Speaker 5: She had heard some.
Speaker 6: Things here and there about it that something was going
Speaker 6: on at Angela's house. She had seen the police cars
Speaker 6: that morning, but didn't really think that much about it.
Speaker 6: She said the same thing as Richie. Didn't surprise her
Speaker 6: that Angela would have police cars over there. And then
Speaker 6: also when she was told that Angelo's phone dead, there
Speaker 6: was again no reaction whatsoever, and she reiterated that Richie
Speaker 6: had been home all night, and so the police knew
Speaker 6: right away.
Speaker 5: But her reaction too, and.
Speaker 6: It's noted in Detective Matisa's report, is that Cynthia was shaking.
Speaker 6: She was very nervous. They knew she was very nervous.
Speaker 6: And while they're talking to her the crime.
Speaker 5: Sceneion is out searching her Honda Pilot.
Speaker 6: And it's pristinely clean everywhere except one spot on the
Speaker 6: passenger side door panel, and it's just a very small,
Speaker 6: very very small spot of like a reddish, reddish brown stain.
Speaker 6: Nothing else stood out in the car from that, and
Speaker 6: so they did end up swabbing that, for example, to
Speaker 6: send to the Bismarck crime Lab for testing.
Speaker 4: Now we mentioned you mentioned about the that they knew
Speaker 4: that were broken fingernails from Angela from the crime scene,
Speaker 4: and so there was also they were awaiting the DNA
Speaker 4: results from that as well.
Speaker 6: M Yes, they yet the uh the medical examiner had
Speaker 6: taken DNA from underneath Angela's fingernails, and then they had
Speaker 6: that reddish brown stain that they had taken a swab of,
Speaker 6: and both of those went to the crime lab for
Speaker 6: testing for DNA, and it was about two weeks after
Speaker 6: two or three weeks after that they got those results back.
Speaker 4: And what were those results?
Speaker 6: The DNA underneath and fingernails was Richie Wilder Juniors. And
Speaker 6: the stain that was in Cynthia Wilder's Honda Pilot was
Speaker 6: in fact blood.
Speaker 5: And it was Angela Wilder's blood.
Speaker 4: Now, as a result of this, what happens in terms
Speaker 4: of Richie his attorney is Carrie Rosenquist, and in terms
Speaker 4: of trying to account for the first interview that he
Speaker 4: had where police basically are accusing him of this murder.
Speaker 4: What's his reaction? His lawyer is there? What does he
Speaker 4: have to say to police?
Speaker 6: So Richie was arrested, you know, almost five weeks to
Speaker 6: the day after Angela's murder. And when he was first arrested,
Speaker 6: he didn't say anything. He wouldn't say anything, He wouldn't
Speaker 6: talk to anybody. But then he got a little bit
Speaker 6: antsy in sitting in jail. And so in March of
Speaker 6: twenty sixteen, the state's attorney Kelly Dillon and Dave Goodman
Speaker 6: got word from Richie's lawyer, Carrie Rosenquist that Richie had
Speaker 6: a story to tell. And so they sat down with
Speaker 6: sat down with Richie and his lawyer. I believe it
Speaker 6: was March twenty sixteen, and the detectives just kind of
Speaker 6: sat and listened to Richie kind of spill this story.
Speaker 6: And the story was that him and Christopher had met
Speaker 6: at Longfellow Elementary School when exchanging the kids one day,
Speaker 6: and Christopher kind of pulled Richie aside to tell him that,
Speaker 6: you know, things weren't going real well with him and Angela.
Speaker 6: He wanted out, but he wanted custody of his son, Carter,
Speaker 6: and so he wanted to enlist Richie in helping him
Speaker 6: get full custody. And so he told Richie that Angela's
Speaker 6: cheating on him, and he came up with a plan
Speaker 6: that if Christopher and Richie could catch Angela in the
Speaker 6: act of cheating, then Richie could testify for Christopher on
Speaker 6: his behalf, and then Christopher could in turn and testify
Speaker 6: for Richie that Angela had taken the kids out of
Speaker 6: the state so that both men could get cuts to
Speaker 6: the other kids and not have to share it with
Speaker 6: Angela anymore.
Speaker 5: And so.
Speaker 6: Richie told the detectives that Christopher had given him a
Speaker 6: burner phone he had given him two pictures of Angela
Speaker 6: and Christopher and the kids out of state, which they
Speaker 6: were not supposed to do according to the divorce agreement
Speaker 6: in child custody arrangements. And Richie was just to wait
Speaker 6: until Christopher called him and told him that it was
Speaker 6: time to go to catch Angela in the act of cheating,
Speaker 6: and so.
Speaker 4: This he was ready to go if this didn't happen
Speaker 4: right away. But within days he did get a call.
Speaker 4: Tell us the call.
Speaker 6: He did, yes, So on November twelfth, it would have
Speaker 6: been well, it actually would have been the early morning hours,
Speaker 6: and November thirteenth, as Richie claimed, about one thirty in
Speaker 6: the morning, Christopher called him on the burner phone and said,
Speaker 6: it's time. It's time to do it. It's time to
Speaker 6: do it. And so Richie didn't know what was going
Speaker 6: to happen, but he drove out to Walmart and he
Speaker 6: picked up Christopher, and him and Christopher drove back to
Speaker 6: Angela and Christopher's house. And Richie said that him and Christopher,
Speaker 6: you know, walked into the house and everything was quiet.
Speaker 6: It was dark, you know. They made their way down
Speaker 6: the little hallway into the master bedroom, where they opened
Speaker 6: up the door and found it. It was dark and
Speaker 6: there was a you know, a little bit of light
Speaker 6: from a TV playing in the corner, but it looked
Speaker 6: like two people were in the bed. And so at
Speaker 6: this point, Richie says to the detectives that he's convinced
Speaker 6: that Christopher is telling the truth.
Speaker 5: Angela really is cheating on him, on Christopher.
Speaker 6: And so, according to Richie, Christopher walked over to the
Speaker 6: bed and he pulled the bedding back, but instead of
Speaker 6: another man laying with Angela, it was actually a body pillow,
Speaker 6: so there was nobody actually there with Angela. But Richie
Speaker 6: continued with the detectives and said, but that didn't seem
Speaker 6: to deter Christopher. And in fact, what Christopher did is
Speaker 6: that he went over to Angela's side of the bed
Speaker 6: and just began kind of and and Richie pantomimed this
Speaker 6: with his with his handcuff's hands to the detectives that
Speaker 6: Christopher just basically started doing a pumping motion. And then
Speaker 6: Richie kind of assumed that it must have been him
Speaker 6: stabbing her because then he began to see Angela's blood
Speaker 6: coming out, and then Christopher, you know, and then Angela
Speaker 6: started to fight back and then Christopher pulled her down
Speaker 6: to the floor and kept kept stabbing her, to which
Speaker 6: point Richie valiantly ran over and you know, intervened, and
Speaker 6: while Christopher took a break, he checked Angela's pulse and
Speaker 6: according to Richie, this is how he got the scratch
Speaker 6: on his face. She reached up scratch his face and said, Richie,
Speaker 6: I love you. Then Richie got up and ran outside
Speaker 6: the room, while Christopher evidently allegedly continued stabbing Angela.
Speaker 4: H yeah, and then he said he wanted to He
Speaker 4: waited in the living room to confront him, saying, what
Speaker 4: did you do that man? Something like something like that. So,
Speaker 4: just to continuum of this, as you write a preposterous story,
Speaker 4: what was the what was Sergeant Goodman and what was
Speaker 4: his reaction to this story?
Speaker 6: Goodman is fascinating to watch and what he does. He
Speaker 6: kind of just sat there stoically. He'd throw in a
Speaker 6: question here or there, you know, just to see if
Speaker 6: he could elicit anything additional or you know, just to
Speaker 6: see if anything from the get go made sense about
Speaker 6: Richie's story. But then he just kind of sat back
Speaker 6: and waited for Richie to finish, and then he kind
Speaker 6: of dropped a little bit.
Speaker 5: Of a bombshell on him.
Speaker 4: And what was that bombshell?
Speaker 6: Well, Richie had claimed that he went to pick up
Speaker 6: Christopher from work at his lunch break at two o'clock
Speaker 6: in the morning, and that he brought Christopher, and that
Speaker 6: he brought Christopher back.
Speaker 5: Just a short.
Speaker 6: Time later to Walmart. Well, everybody knows that there's cameras
Speaker 6: everywhere in Walmart. Well, everybody except.
Speaker 5: Ritchie, apparently he knows that.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and so Goodman had just received an additional batch
Speaker 6: of security footage from the Walmart security team the night before,
Speaker 6: and so they had spent hours the night before watching
Speaker 6: this video and it proved that Christopher never left Walmart
Speaker 6: that night, and so they knew right away that Richie
Speaker 6: was lying. And he confronted Richie with that that his
Speaker 6: story didn't make sense because there was no way that
Speaker 6: Christopher left, And shortly after that, then Richie's lawyer, Rosenquist,
Speaker 6: then said, hey, you can stop whenever you want, and
Speaker 6: then that effectively ended the interview.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so they confront him about that, and now as well,
Speaker 4: due diligence, these detectives have to check out Christopher. Well,
Speaker 4: they have to check out Richie's story as preposterous and
Speaker 4: implausible as it is, they have to check it out,
Speaker 4: and in the process they tell Christopher about Richie's story,
Speaker 4: so he is defiant about that completely. Meanwhile, Richie's defense
Speaker 4: team hires their own private investigator, this guy named Ross
Speaker 4: Rollschoven And so now Richie and his defense attorney are
Speaker 4: now telling this guy how things went down, and he
Speaker 4: is not just accepting every story as well. So tell
Speaker 4: us a little bit about this character, Ross Rollschovin and
Speaker 4: his investigation as he's hired by Richie's defense team.
Speaker 6: Yeah, so he was actually hired. He has actually hired
Speaker 6: just a few days before Richie and his lawyer sat
Speaker 6: down with the detectives for the first time and told
Speaker 6: the story about Christopher giving him a phone and pictures
Speaker 6: and things like that. And so Ross Rolshoefin, he's out
Speaker 6: of Grand Force. He's a fantastic detective. He works mainly
Speaker 6: on you know, things that happen in the oil fields
Speaker 6: around North Dakota and Minnesota, but he has his fair
Speaker 6: share of federal murder case is under.
Speaker 5: His belt as well.
Speaker 6: So they had really got hired the best of the
Speaker 6: best in him to try to find any possible way
Speaker 6: that Richie Wylder was not guilty of murdering Angela Wylder.
Speaker 6: But by the time Ross met with Richie face to face,
Speaker 6: Richie had determined that the original store he went with
Speaker 6: wasn't going to work anymore, so he had come up
Speaker 6: with a new one. By the time mister Rolservan was
Speaker 6: there meeting with him this time, Richie claimed that while
Speaker 6: Christopher wasn't there and he wasn't want the one who
Speaker 6: murdered Angela, he was in fact the one who orchestrated
Speaker 6: it in an effort to frame Richie, And so at
Speaker 6: this point Richie is claiming that there was an Hispanic
Speaker 6: man and an African American man at Angela's house that night.
Speaker 6: Christopher had indeed called him on this Burner phone, but
Speaker 6: for whatever reason, Richie had gone down to the house.
Speaker 6: But when he walked into the house, he found Angela
Speaker 6: on the floor already dead. At this point, someone came
Speaker 6: up behind him and stuck something in his back and
Speaker 6: made him stand up and walk outside. The African American
Speaker 6: man and the Hispanic man both told that told him
Speaker 6: that if he told anyone what they saw what he saw,
Speaker 6: they would kill him. And his family, and so now
Speaker 6: he knew he hadn't recognized those two men before, but
Speaker 6: now he did. It was a new cellmate that he
Speaker 6: had just gotten named Paul Madrialis, and he was confident.
Speaker 5: And now he was telling.
Speaker 6: Everybody that Paul Madrealis had actually been the one to
Speaker 6: murder Angela and was hired as a hitman by Christopher Jackson.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so this ongoing conspiracy to try to undo what
Speaker 4: he had already done. Also, this is also one of
Speaker 4: the factors is that all of these phone calls and
Speaker 4: all electronic devices would be later be able to be accessed.
Speaker 4: But also any contact on phones with Richie in prison,
Speaker 4: with his mother Geneva, or with his wife Cynthia were
Speaker 4: also recorded as well, weren't.
Speaker 6: They yep, m hm, yes, And he made plenty of
Speaker 6: them any chance which he could get, he was on
Speaker 6: the phone. And at this point he had actually thought
Speaker 6: anyways that he had recruited another cellmate who was eventually
Speaker 6: released from jail to do some bitting for him against
Speaker 6: Paul Madrila's.
Speaker 4: So briefly, not to give this too much credibility, but basically,
Speaker 4: what did he have these people? What did he attempt
Speaker 4: to have these people do in terms of his taking
Speaker 4: the heat off him as a murderer. What grand scheme
Speaker 4: did he have to be able to do that?
Speaker 6: Well, he thought that because Paul Madrelais was actually let
Speaker 6: out on bond as well, and so that left Richie
Speaker 6: still imprison by himself, you know, in jail by himself,
Speaker 6: and he had made another connection with another man named
Speaker 6: Adam Monsige while he was in jail, and Ritchie's got
Speaker 6: that Adam Munzig was just kind of a puppet that
Speaker 6: he could kind of control, and so what he did
Speaker 6: was Richie is actually the one who bailed out Adam Munzige.
Speaker 5: Actually Cynthia Wilders.
Speaker 6: The one who did that on Richie's direction, failed out
Speaker 6: Adam mon Sigue. And I think eventually what it was
Speaker 6: it was believed to be supposed to happen, is that
Speaker 6: while Richie was working on the inside to help Adam
Speaker 6: Monsig in any charges he had against him, which we
Speaker 6: now know, Richie had no power to do that. Clearly,
Speaker 6: Adam mons Sigue was probably supposed to kill Paul Madrialist,
Speaker 6: write out of suicide note and make it look like
Speaker 6: he had committed suicide because he couldn't live with the
Speaker 6: guilt of killing Angela Wilder. But Adam Munseig never got
Speaker 6: to that point, thank goodness. And it's pretty much speculated
Speaker 6: that he had never intended to either, that he was
Speaker 6: just stringing Richie along and getting some financial benefits during
Speaker 6: during during, during that. But as soon as Richie actually
Speaker 6: started telling people in jail that Adam Munzig was a
Speaker 6: hit man for him, Adam on seeing that, no, no more,
Speaker 6: I'm not involved in this at all. So once more
Speaker 6: Richie's mouths got him, got him in trouble.
Speaker 4: And all the meanwhile, you have you document all of
Speaker 4: the desperate attempts by this guy number one. He thinks
Speaker 4: he's a really bright guy, and he's much smarter than
Speaker 4: the inmates that he's dealing with, and yet he's got
Speaker 4: he's manipulating his mother and his wife to be able
Speaker 4: to bail out these guys, and he's telling them that
Speaker 4: he's very very confident his wife and his mother that
Speaker 4: he should be able to get these charges dealt with.
Speaker 4: So he's a consummate liar. That's that's evidence here. So
Speaker 4: the thing is is that he is desperate to be
Speaker 4: able to get things done before a certain deadline. He
Speaker 4: needs to get this Paul Madrill's gone, but then he's
Speaker 4: arrested again, and then he needs to get this done
Speaker 4: before he's incarcerated again, he believes, So you document all
Speaker 4: of this three stooges of I'm here. But eventually he
Speaker 4: goes to trial with Judge Gary Lee. So tell us
Speaker 4: a little bit about this trial.
Speaker 6: Sure, well, you know, I think all along, from the
Speaker 6: time he was arrested in December two thousand and fifteen
Speaker 6: till the time he actually went to trial in December
Speaker 6: of twenty sixteen, I think Richie thought this.
Speaker 5: Was just a game to be played.
Speaker 6: I think he really thought that there's no way that
Speaker 6: he'd be convicted of this, that he could explain anything
Speaker 6: away that no one saw through the lies that he
Speaker 6: was telling. And so really, you know, his trial was
Speaker 6: supposed to last about two weeks. It lasted about three
Speaker 6: days because his lawyer didn't put on any witnesses, he
Speaker 6: didn't provide any defense whatsoever. Actually, he didn't do anything.
Speaker 6: He didn't give jurors any glimpse or any opportunity to
Speaker 6: understand what might be an alternative theory. You know, even
Speaker 6: though it was very clear that Richie was guilty, but
Speaker 6: certainly his defense could have done something, but they didn't.
Speaker 6: And so this trial lasted for about three days and
Speaker 6: it was all the prosecution and the jury was out
Speaker 6: for less.
Speaker 5: Than an hour to come back and convict him of murder.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's it's fascinating too that he did do what
Speaker 4: could considered a vigorous cross examination of the prosecution witnesses. However,
Speaker 4: when it came time, even in his opening statement, it
Speaker 4: was inadequate and bizarre, as you right, closing statement as well,
Speaker 4: and this this idea that he wouldn't even mount a defense,
Speaker 4: it was, as you say, surprising and shocking.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it was, you know, just allowing Richie to kind
Speaker 6: of continue to spout these conspiracy theories, you know, of
Speaker 6: a fiance and contract killers, and you know, it was
Speaker 6: I write in the book it was a thing out
Speaker 6: of the stories he was telling, was a thing out
Speaker 6: of movies.
Speaker 5: And it was just very.
Speaker 6: Surprising that, you know, that his lawyer didn't try to
Speaker 6: do something to change that trajectory of Richie just constantly
Speaker 6: digging holes for himself over and over and over again,
Speaker 6: deeper and deeper and deeper every time.
Speaker 4: You write that. It's also odd that either that either
Speaker 4: the attorney either knew or as as Cynthia had said that,
Speaker 4: Richie claimed later because I'm jumping ahead, that the Rosenquist
Speaker 4: had suggested the story. However, it seemed that like unlikely
Speaker 4: that would be. However, you you say that, it's also
Speaker 4: very odd that he would have sat through, you know,
Speaker 4: two preposterous story worries that were super implausible, right, and
Speaker 4: then yet and yet still defend this guy at trial?
Speaker 4: Did Richie just for those people listening, the prosecution thought
Speaker 4: that Richie might really want to take the stand. Did
Speaker 4: Richie take the stand?
Speaker 5: No, No, not at all. They were very surprised by that.
Speaker 5: The prosecution was.
Speaker 6: And I you know, and that might be the one
Speaker 6: time that his lawyer did say, you're done talking now,
Speaker 6: we enough talking.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: The evidence they did have was essentially some damning evidence
Speaker 4: was the two interviews with Richie lying and being caught
Speaker 4: in a lie and then being told by Goodman and
Speaker 4: confronted by Goodman and Matisse. So it was very very telling,
Speaker 4: compelling and damaging you right that right after though Cynthia,
Speaker 4: people didn't really notice that Cynthia was sitting in the
Speaker 4: court right behind the defense table. How did they react
Speaker 4: when Richie was sentenced to this life without parule. What
Speaker 4: was Cynthia's reaction and how did they respond to each other,
Speaker 4: knowing it was unlikely they would see each other again.
Speaker 6: She she was very emotional in the courtroom. Her sister
Speaker 6: had to, you know, kind of calm her down. She
Speaker 6: was very emotional in the hallway. When interviewed by reporters,
Speaker 6: she was still maintaining that there's no way Richie could
Speaker 6: have done it, that he was home with her all night,
Speaker 6: how much she loves his how much he loves his children,
Speaker 6: what a great man he is.
Speaker 5: She was still singing his praises.
Speaker 6: And with but you know, with I don't think that
Speaker 6: as far as like police records go, there are no
Speaker 6: additional recordings that I have picked up anyways, of the
Speaker 6: two of them talking after he was convicted, because very
Speaker 6: shortly afterwards she had the more to say herself.
Speaker 5: And it wasn't very long before before, you.
Speaker 4: Know, let's talk about her behavior right after this man
Speaker 4: that she stands up for, that she supports. She's there
Speaker 4: in the courtroom crying over what does she do shortly after?
Speaker 6: Well, she not to go back too far, but and
Speaker 6: I won't belabor this, but Richie was arrested in December
Speaker 6: of twenty fifteen. By January of twenty sixteen, Cynthia was
Speaker 6: already sleeping with someone else. She had already started a
Speaker 6: relationship with someone else and reaching out to an ex
Speaker 6: boyfriend and starting up a new relationship. By the time
Speaker 6: Richie was convicted.
Speaker 5: Just a couple of.
Speaker 6: Days later, she was going out on the town with
Speaker 6: one of her ex lovers.
Speaker 4: Matt walters, Now, what does he tell? What is he
Speaker 4: told by Cynthia? And then how does it get to
Speaker 4: the point where the police find out about some of
Speaker 4: these conversations.
Speaker 6: Sure, so, while Richie sat in jail, Cynthia and Matt
Speaker 6: began communicating again over Facebook messenger, and it was Cynthia
Speaker 6: who reached out to him to facilitate that sort of reconnection.
Speaker 6: And you know, she would drop hints here and there
Speaker 6: of you know, how she felt about how things were going,
Speaker 6: how she felt about Richie being in jail waiting trial
Speaker 6: for the murder of his ex wife, you know, and
Speaker 6: Matt would kind of say things here and there too, like,
Speaker 6: you know, how stupid was he to think about doing this?
Speaker 6: And one of the things that Matt said was how
Speaker 6: stupid was it of Richie to use.
Speaker 5: A knife to do this?
Speaker 6: And Cynthia wrote back and said, essentially, it wasn't supposed
Speaker 6: to be a knife, supposed to be a gun. And
Speaker 6: this automatically made you know, the hairs on the back
Speaker 6: of Matt Walter's net kind of stand up, saying, Wow,
Speaker 6: she's been telling me for a long time she knows
Speaker 6: nothing about this. So he kind of let it go
Speaker 6: for a little but then she kept kind of dropping
Speaker 6: these weird things here and there. So he finally reached
Speaker 6: out to Mind at the police department because he did
Speaker 6: not want to have anything to do with it. If
Speaker 6: she had truly been involved with it, he did not want.
Speaker 5: To be drawn into it as well, and so.
Speaker 6: Within a few weeks then they made him a confidential informant.
Speaker 6: And so what Cynthia thought was going to be a
Speaker 6: really fun date out on the town with her former
Speaker 6: lover was actually Matt Walters sitting with a recording device
Speaker 6: in his car and on his phone to record everything
Speaker 6: she said.
Speaker 4: And she did say much more damaging things, didn't she
Speaker 4: And you have this?
Speaker 5: She did? She did? She did?
Speaker 6: She She basically laid it all out for Matt.
Speaker 5: Walter's how.
Speaker 6: Yes, Richie absolutely did kill Angela, not only that, but
Speaker 6: because Angela deserved it.
Speaker 5: Cynthia was still very much adamant that it had to happen.
Speaker 6: She revealed that her and Richie had planned it for
Speaker 6: two years, that she ended actually had been stocking Angela.
Speaker 6: She had been sitting outside her house at night to
Speaker 6: find out when Angela would be home alone and Christopher
Speaker 6: would be gone at work. You know, she said things like,
Speaker 6: you know, Richie got sloppy. She was mad at him
Speaker 6: for getting sloppy. She was mad at him for leading DNA.
Speaker 6: She was very explicit in what she would have done
Speaker 6: differently to make sure that there hadn't been any DNA there.
Speaker 6: And it was just sort of like this verbal volcano
Speaker 6: of everything that the detectives had been waiting to hear,
Speaker 6: and it was just it just an avalanche that just
Speaker 6: came out of Cynthia, and within a few days Cynthia
Speaker 6: was also arrested.
Speaker 4: You talk about the trial as well, because Kelly Dylan,
Speaker 4: the prosecutor, is just dying to be able to prosecute her,
Speaker 4: and also at this trial, she has an opportunity to
Speaker 4: cross examine Cynthia on the stand as well, So she
Speaker 4: really wants this opportunity just tell us about this trial.
Speaker 6: Sure, So it kind of went back and forth because
Speaker 6: initially Cynthia wanted to go with not guilty, but then
Speaker 6: she was eventually talked into maybe you should submit an
Speaker 6: Alford plea, which is essentially admitting that the state has
Speaker 6: enough information against you to probably find you guilty. And
Speaker 6: so Cynthia was up on the stand and Kelly Dylan
Speaker 6: was asking her, you know about all these things that
Speaker 6: supposedly Richie and Cynthia had accused Angela of. They had
Speaker 6: accused her of physically, psychologically, emotionally abusing their children, And
Speaker 6: so Kelly Dylan asked Cynthia Welder, give us an example
Speaker 6: of what Angela did.
Speaker 5: For any of these things.
Speaker 6: And the only example she could give was when Angela
Speaker 6: and Richie were married several years prior. There were no
Speaker 6: other examples, and it was it. And the other thing
Speaker 6: is is that Cynthia never said she was sorry, She
Speaker 6: never expressed any remorse, and the judge had no choice
Speaker 6: but to hold her accountable for that.
Speaker 4: She had been offered a plea agreement, but she declined.
Speaker 4: They didn't expect they didn't expect the reaction from the judge.
Speaker 4: What was the judge's reaction?
Speaker 6: Sure, they had asked the state had asked for a
Speaker 6: twenty five year sentence, her lawyer had asked for a
Speaker 6: ten year sentence, I believe, and the judge gave her
Speaker 6: life without parole.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we haven't mentioned. Just as an aside, Ritchie was arrested.
Speaker 4: They noticed he was trying to escape, so he was
Speaker 4: arrested convicted of attempted to escape along with her sentence
Speaker 4: and convictions were her aiding and abetting him in his
Speaker 4: plan to escape.
Speaker 5: Yes, yep, that one she did admit to.
Speaker 4: Right now, all of a sudden, done these both people
Speaker 4: are are going to be doing life without parole. You
Speaker 4: reached out to Cynthia in prison. Tell us a little
Speaker 4: bit about that.
Speaker 6: Sure, So we began emailing in October of twenty eighteen,
Speaker 6: which was actually just about three months after she was
Speaker 6: originally sentenced, so she had only been in prison for
Speaker 6: about three months. And we exchanged emails for several months,
Speaker 6: and then I eventually went and visited her in prison,
Speaker 6: and throughout the course of our email correspondence, she also
Speaker 6: kind of divulged some new information to me. She actually
Speaker 6: admitted that she knew that Richie had done this, She
Speaker 6: knew that he came home and had had tried to
Speaker 6: clean himself off and things like that. And then by
Speaker 6: the time I got to visit her in prison, she
Speaker 6: actually added on that she had given him a duffel
Speaker 6: bag to get rid of his bloody clothes and the
Speaker 6: weapon that night.
Speaker 4: Right, What else did you You didn't just contact her
Speaker 4: for that information, yet that's very valuable information that you wanted.
Speaker 4: What else did you find from this correspondence? What did
Speaker 4: she impart to you about her life and maybe even motivations?
Speaker 6: Sure, I mean she had you know, she she had
Speaker 6: a troubled upbringing her her mom. Her relationship with her
Speaker 6: mom was not good. Her mom was kind of promiscuous,
Speaker 6: didn't spend a whole lot of time at home, you know,
Speaker 6: And you know, Cynthia always vollowed that she wasn't going
Speaker 6: to be like that, but she actually did kind of
Speaker 6: turn out like that.
Speaker 5: You know, she hadn't. She had been married prior to.
Speaker 6: Richie, and she had cheated on him numerous times over
Speaker 6: and over again, and she believed you know, in the end,
Speaker 6: I think she was easily impressionable but in the end,
Speaker 6: you know, she believed everything Richie told her about Angela,
Speaker 6: even though most of it was lies, and Cynthia never
Speaker 6: bothered to Actually Cynthia and Angela actually never talked to
Speaker 6: one another. She just hated Angela because of what Richie
Speaker 6: said about her, but she never actually knew Angela. And
Speaker 6: the issue that I still have here is that is
Speaker 6: that Cynthia still firmly believes that Angela deserved to die
Speaker 6: based on lies and innuendos from a manipulative person. And
Speaker 6: she doesn't believe that she deserves to be in prison
Speaker 6: because she swears that she isn't the person who wielded
Speaker 6: the weapon against.
Speaker 5: Angela, and she has no remorse at all.
Speaker 6: For her involvement in this. You know, it's interesting to
Speaker 6: you know. And then you know, one of the things
Speaker 6: that we find out, or find out during my research
Speaker 6: and during the detective's work, is that Ritchie was cheating
Speaker 6: on Cynthia with at least three other women. And that's
Speaker 6: something she never wanted to believe either. But when I
Speaker 6: visited her in prison, I told her point blank, I
Speaker 6: saw that he did he was doing that, and he
Speaker 6: manipulated you too, And I hope that there's a day
Speaker 6: that Cynthia does come to realize that she was manipulated
Speaker 6: and that hopefully she does have remorse someday for participating
Speaker 6: in something.
Speaker 4: Like this is very interesting. What she said to Matt
Speaker 4: too regards to empathy or remorse, that she felt no emotion.
Speaker 4: She said, if my grandma died, I wouldn't feel anything either.
Speaker 4: I'm she remark that she had a lack of normal emotion,
Speaker 4: didn't she.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, And I think that comment alone, I think
Speaker 6: was a little more for show for Matt Walters to
Speaker 6: kind of show how, you know, how tough tough she was.
Speaker 6: She definitely has emotions. She definitely has emotions, but they're
Speaker 6: they're just with this particular situation. She just doesn't there.
Speaker 6: There's nothing there that makes her understand the enormity of
Speaker 6: what she participated in.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, I want to thank you so much for
Speaker 4: coming on CJ. Winn and talking about Wilder intentions, love,
Speaker 4: lies and murder in North Dakota. It's been a pleasure
Speaker 4: talking to you about this incredible book. Is there a
Speaker 4: website or a Facebook page that people might take a
Speaker 4: look at this book find out more information.
Speaker 6: Yes, absolutely, you can go to my author page at CJ.
Speaker 6: Winn Author, and you can get the book on black
Speaker 6: Line Publishing dot com or at Amazon dot com.
Speaker 4: That's great. Thank you so much, CJ. Win Wilder Intentions.
Speaker 5: Thank you so much. Dan, I very much appreciate it.
Speaker 4: Thank you. Have a great night.
Speaker 5: Good night, Okay, good to good night.