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Every 23 00:01:22.120 --> 00:01:25.719 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 24 00:01:25.879 --> 00:01:30.040 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your 25 00:01:30.079 --> 00:01:33.879 host journalist and author Dan Zupanski. 26 00:01:41.879 --> 00:01:47.000 Good Evening. Sandra Bridwell was a beguiling Dallas socialite in 27 00:01:47.120 --> 00:01:51.280 the seventies and early eighties. Her first husband was a 28 00:01:51.359 --> 00:01:53.920 prominent dentist who has found shot to death in their 29 00:01:53.959 --> 00:01:58.799 home in nineteen seventy five. The medical examiner ruled his 30 00:01:59.000 --> 00:02:04.719 death a suicide. Her second husband, Robert Bridwell, developed the 31 00:02:04.799 --> 00:02:09.120 mansion on Turtle Creek, the first property of Rosewood Hotels 32 00:02:09.199 --> 00:02:13.960 and Resorts. Shortly after mister Bridwell died of lymphoma. In 33 00:02:14.039 --> 00:02:18.000 nineteen eighty two, his treating doctor's wife was found shot 34 00:02:18.080 --> 00:02:20.840 to death in her car at love Field, a few 35 00:02:20.960 --> 00:02:25.840 hours after giving Sandra a ride to the airport. The 36 00:02:25.919 --> 00:02:31.240 medical examiner ruled the woman's death a suicide. Three years later, 37 00:02:31.719 --> 00:02:34.759 Sandra's third husband was found shot to death in his car, 38 00:02:35.360 --> 00:02:37.560 in which he was last seen driving to meet her. 39 00:02:39.199 --> 00:02:43.199 The medical examiner ruled his death a homicide, and Sandra 40 00:02:43.360 --> 00:02:48.080 became the prime suspect, but was never arrested. In nineteen 41 00:02:48.120 --> 00:02:51.560 eighty seven. Sandra was the subject of a D magazine 42 00:02:51.599 --> 00:02:56.360 feature titled The Black Widow that suggested she had indeed 43 00:02:56.479 --> 00:02:59.960 murdered her third husband, as well as her first husband 44 00:03:00.400 --> 00:03:03.479 and the wife of the prominent cancer doctor who had 45 00:03:03.560 --> 00:03:09.280 treated mister Bridewell. Author John Leake grew up in Highland Park, 46 00:03:09.840 --> 00:03:13.360 down the street from Sandra Bridewell, and often visited her 47 00:03:13.879 --> 00:03:16.039 at her home to play with one of her children. 48 00:03:17.080 --> 00:03:20.159 He began his multi year investigation in two thousand and 49 00:03:20.240 --> 00:03:26.240 seven when Sandra was arrested for aggravated identity theft. Assuming 50 00:03:26.319 --> 00:03:30.400 the guise of a Christian missionary, she ingratiated herself with 51 00:03:30.520 --> 00:03:35.199 an elderly lady in Southport, North Carolina, near Cape Fear 52 00:03:35.960 --> 00:03:39.840 to steal the unsuspecting victim's identity and to plunder her 53 00:03:39.919 --> 00:03:45.919 financial assets. Leake visited Bridewell in pre trial detention and 54 00:03:46.120 --> 00:03:51.319 began documenting her life and wanderings. He then investigated the 55 00:03:51.439 --> 00:03:55.240 three gunshot deaths reported in the D magazine feature with 56 00:03:55.400 --> 00:03:59.800 the assistance a former Los Angeles criminalist Lynn Harrow and 57 00:03:59.879 --> 00:04:06.599 d former FBI forensic psychologist Greg McCrary. Dallas police photos 58 00:04:06.680 --> 00:04:10.439 of the first two death scenes display physical evidence that 59 00:04:10.560 --> 00:04:14.000 they were not suicides, but murders that were staged to 60 00:04:14.159 --> 00:04:19.519 look like suicides. These murders bear striking similarities to the 61 00:04:19.600 --> 00:04:23.600 murders of Sandra Bridewell's third husband, and she was the 62 00:04:23.720 --> 00:04:28.759 last known contact of all three descendants. After serving two 63 00:04:28.879 --> 00:04:33.240 years in a federal penitentiary for aggravated identity theft, she 64 00:04:33.439 --> 00:04:38.199 was released in twenty ten and now Rome's free. The 65 00:04:38.279 --> 00:04:41.199 book that we're featuring this evening is The Meaning of 66 00:04:41.360 --> 00:04:45.160 Malice on the Trail of the Black Widow of Highland 67 00:04:45.240 --> 00:04:51.240 Park with my special guest, investigative journalist and author John Leek. 68 00:04:52.319 --> 00:04:54.120 Good evening, and welcome to the program. 69 00:04:54.720 --> 00:04:58.279 John Leek, Thanks for having me, Dan, This is great. 70 00:04:59.279 --> 00:05:01.519 Thank you so much, and thank you very much for 71 00:05:01.639 --> 00:05:03.600 this interview on this extraordinary book. 72 00:05:04.800 --> 00:05:08.279 I'm delighted and i appreciate your interest in it. It 73 00:05:08.480 --> 00:05:13.279 is a story I've investigated for many years, so I'm 74 00:05:13.360 --> 00:05:14.120 thrilled that you're. 75 00:05:14.040 --> 00:05:14.759 Interested in it. 76 00:05:16.199 --> 00:05:20.839 Before we start, this extraordinary tale and set in July sixteenth, 77 00:05:20.959 --> 00:05:25.120 nineteen eighty two, in your first chapter here, tell us 78 00:05:25.560 --> 00:05:28.399 how you came to be involved in this story, just 79 00:05:28.480 --> 00:05:32.519 your background and connection to this area and to this story. 80 00:05:33.639 --> 00:05:37.639 I was born and raised in Dallas, Texas. I had 81 00:05:37.680 --> 00:05:42.199 the good fortune to grow up in an affluent, independent 82 00:05:42.439 --> 00:05:45.879 township in the middle of Dallas County. 83 00:05:45.959 --> 00:05:47.120 It's called Highland Park. 84 00:05:47.879 --> 00:05:51.240 Highland Park has its own police force and school districts, 85 00:05:51.319 --> 00:05:55.639 and it's known in Texas as the Bubble. I think 86 00:05:55.720 --> 00:05:59.480 the idea is that it's shielded from the ills that 87 00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:03.160 affect the rest of humanity. That's not true, but anyway, 88 00:06:03.240 --> 00:06:07.160 that's the public perception. It's an affluent place. I was 89 00:06:07.240 --> 00:06:13.079 born in nineteen seventy and around the year nineteen seventy eight, 90 00:06:13.800 --> 00:06:16.439 I was just a boy, an eight year old. It 91 00:06:16.600 --> 00:06:19.879 was only something I gradually became aware of. There was 92 00:06:19.959 --> 00:06:26.199 a lady named Sandra Bridewell, and she and her new husband, 93 00:06:26.720 --> 00:06:31.720 a very popular, something of a society lion in Dallas. 94 00:06:31.800 --> 00:06:33.519 His name is Bobby Bridewell. 95 00:06:34.040 --> 00:06:35.360 They bought a house right. 96 00:06:35.319 --> 00:06:40.920 Down the street from my childhood home, and in the 97 00:06:41.000 --> 00:06:47.079 year nineteen eighty three, I became friends with Sandra's second child, 98 00:06:47.680 --> 00:06:51.199 a girl named Catherine. Katherine and I were the same age. 99 00:06:51.240 --> 00:06:55.120 We were playmates or classmates at school. I started hanging 100 00:06:55.160 --> 00:06:59.240 around with Catherine, hanging around at the Bridewell House, and 101 00:07:00.079 --> 00:07:05.279 through that experience I became acquainted with Sandra Bridewell. 102 00:07:06.240 --> 00:07:09.879 And to quickly jump forward. 103 00:07:10.480 --> 00:07:15.199 After I became acquainted with Sandra, she a few years 104 00:07:15.319 --> 00:07:22.279 later landed on the front cover of our local glossy 105 00:07:22.759 --> 00:07:29.079 monthly magazine, D Magazine. It's called very popular local magazine 106 00:07:29.120 --> 00:07:33.639 about events and people in Dallas. There was Sandra, my 107 00:07:33.879 --> 00:07:39.160 friend's mom and my neighbor, on the front cover of 108 00:07:39.439 --> 00:07:44.959 a very salacious, sensational story, the title of which was 109 00:07:45.040 --> 00:07:50.959 The Black Widow and the Although the authors of the 110 00:07:51.839 --> 00:07:55.639 of the feature did not come out and directly accuser 111 00:07:56.279 --> 00:08:01.759 has the title of the piece strongly insinuated she was 112 00:08:01.920 --> 00:08:08.360 under suspicion for committing multiple murders. And so that was 113 00:08:08.480 --> 00:08:12.160 quite a stunner. When I saw the front cover of 114 00:08:12.399 --> 00:08:16.240 that D Magazine piece. I read the piece with great 115 00:08:17.000 --> 00:08:21.720 avid interest, and sure enough it would have seemed, based 116 00:08:21.800 --> 00:08:27.680 on reading that report, that Sandra was under strong suspicion 117 00:08:28.000 --> 00:08:32.200 for the gunshot death of her first husband in nineteen 118 00:08:32.360 --> 00:08:36.240 eight excuse me, nineteen seventy five. Then a friend of 119 00:08:36.399 --> 00:08:39.240 hers was found shot to death. Sandra was the last 120 00:08:39.360 --> 00:08:44.399 known contact in eighty two, and then Sandra's third husband 121 00:08:44.559 --> 00:08:47.639 was found shot to death in nineteen eighty five. She 122 00:08:47.879 --> 00:08:52.320 was the last known contact of all three. So that 123 00:08:52.639 --> 00:08:56.120 piece came out in May of nineteen eighty seven, and 124 00:08:56.480 --> 00:08:58.879 the story has haunted me ever since. 125 00:09:00.919 --> 00:09:03.919 You say that you got involved in two thousand and seven. 126 00:09:04.320 --> 00:09:07.879 But in this book you take us to again Lovefield 127 00:09:07.960 --> 00:09:12.559 Airport in Dallas, July sixteenth, nineteen eighty two. In the 128 00:09:12.600 --> 00:09:16.639 short term parking lot. There is a blue Mercedes three 129 00:09:16.759 --> 00:09:21.960 hundred station wagon and the family is there. Tell us 130 00:09:22.200 --> 00:09:24.120 what happens, what is discovered? 131 00:09:25.879 --> 00:09:31.080 Hey, Mercedes, Ben's mechanic and his children are along for 132 00:09:31.200 --> 00:09:33.759 the ride. They're giving his cousin a ride to love 133 00:09:33.840 --> 00:09:37.919 Field Airport. He remarks to his children, look at that 134 00:09:38.039 --> 00:09:42.000 beautiful car. Someday I'll save up enough to buy one 135 00:09:42.080 --> 00:09:47.440 of those, and that prompts the curiosity of his small children. 136 00:09:48.159 --> 00:09:51.919 They park the car their he the father's pulling luggage 137 00:09:51.960 --> 00:09:54.559 out of it. The children wander over to the car 138 00:09:54.720 --> 00:09:58.960 and peer into it, and they see what appears to 139 00:09:59.080 --> 00:10:03.879 be a young woman who is not moving. Her body 140 00:10:04.120 --> 00:10:09.639 is slumped all the way across the center console. Her 141 00:10:09.759 --> 00:10:13.720 upper body is actually lying on the passenger seat of 142 00:10:13.840 --> 00:10:17.600 the vehicle. One of the children. Says to the father, Daddy, 143 00:10:17.639 --> 00:10:20.279 there's a lady in this car, and she looks sick. 144 00:10:21.159 --> 00:10:24.279 He it's very hot at summertime in Dallas, it's ninety 145 00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:27.279 five degrees. He sees the windows are rolled up, the 146 00:10:27.399 --> 00:10:32.360 engine's not running. He immediately is alarmed by that thought 147 00:10:32.399 --> 00:10:35.639 of her having a heat stroke in the car. He 148 00:10:35.840 --> 00:10:38.919 runs over to the vehicle, peers into the window and 149 00:10:39.279 --> 00:10:42.960 sees blood running out of her nose and sees what 150 00:10:43.279 --> 00:10:46.720 through the window what appears to be a small revolver, 151 00:10:46.919 --> 00:10:51.120 a snubnosed revolver in her right hand. He calls her. 152 00:10:51.240 --> 00:10:55.480 He runs into the terminal, notifies the terminal security. 153 00:10:55.559 --> 00:10:56.600 They call the police. 154 00:10:56.759 --> 00:11:03.039 The police come and they at first glance they perceived 155 00:11:03.200 --> 00:11:09.799 this woman and her name is Betsy Bagwell. They the police, 156 00:11:09.919 --> 00:11:15.279 the investigating officers, and a medical examiner field agent. It 157 00:11:15.320 --> 00:11:19.600 would seem that she's shot herself in the head while 158 00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:24.600 sitting in the driver's seat, and based on their perception, 159 00:11:24.840 --> 00:11:30.000 they draw the conclusions she has slumped over onto the 160 00:11:30.519 --> 00:11:35.480 passenger seat. There is a very cursory investigation of this. 161 00:11:36.519 --> 00:11:41.639 The homicide detective on the case. He goes from Dallas 162 00:11:41.759 --> 00:11:47.679 Lovefield Airport to Betsy Bagwell's home which is in smack 163 00:11:47.759 --> 00:11:51.000 Dab in the middle of Highland Park, which is about 164 00:11:51.080 --> 00:11:55.000 a fifteen minute drive from love Field, and he goes 165 00:11:55.120 --> 00:11:58.159 to notify the next of ken, that is the husband 166 00:11:59.320 --> 00:12:03.759 who was a very prominent oncologist, the prominent cancer doctor 167 00:12:04.679 --> 00:12:09.159 in Dallas. And what I can tell you now kind 168 00:12:09.200 --> 00:12:14.399 of leave you with suspenses. The homicide detective perceived when 169 00:12:14.440 --> 00:12:18.879 he arrived at the Bagwell residence that somehow the husband 170 00:12:20.200 --> 00:12:25.840 seemed to not be surprised by the news that his 171 00:12:26.080 --> 00:12:28.559 young wife had just been found shot in her car 172 00:12:28.679 --> 00:12:34.720 at love Field. The homicide detective makes the deduction that 173 00:12:35.720 --> 00:12:39.240 the husband must have somehow known, perhaps by way of 174 00:12:39.279 --> 00:12:44.320 a suicide note, that she was suicidal. That is a 175 00:12:45.200 --> 00:12:50.799 deduction that the homicide detective makes, which would explain why 176 00:12:51.159 --> 00:12:55.559 the husband is apparently not surprised by the news of 177 00:12:55.639 --> 00:13:01.879 his wife's gunshot death. In fact, the plot thickens considerably. 178 00:13:02.879 --> 00:13:05.440 But one of the things that I examined as I 179 00:13:05.519 --> 00:13:10.679 got into my investigation is why why didn't the Dallas 180 00:13:10.840 --> 00:13:14.879 police perceive the suspicious circumstances of this death? 181 00:13:16.159 --> 00:13:16.919 And they didn't. 182 00:13:17.200 --> 00:13:25.360 Their initial impression was suicide, and the decedent's husband did 183 00:13:25.440 --> 00:13:29.600 not really say anything, at least not in a vehement 184 00:13:29.720 --> 00:13:34.960 way to challenge that perception. I always found that intriguing. 185 00:13:35.399 --> 00:13:40.720 A very cursory account of Betsy's death was written in 186 00:13:40.799 --> 00:13:42.360 this d magazine piece. 187 00:13:42.440 --> 00:13:43.679 But it was very, very. 188 00:13:43.720 --> 00:13:48.399 Superficial and cursory, and so even at the time, as 189 00:13:48.440 --> 00:13:51.080 a sixteen year old boy, I was intrigued by that. 190 00:13:52.000 --> 00:13:55.440 And I think that the death of Betsy Bagwell at 191 00:13:55.519 --> 00:13:59.799 love Field Airport in nineteen eighty two, I believe it's 192 00:14:00.039 --> 00:14:03.879 it's the moral and the dramatic heart of this story 193 00:14:05.000 --> 00:14:07.320 which happened right in my community. 194 00:14:08.919 --> 00:14:14.879 Yes, let's get to Bobby Bridewell. You say his father 195 00:14:15.080 --> 00:14:18.559 was a famous oil man, successful oil man, and so 196 00:14:18.759 --> 00:14:20.840 was Bobby. But Bobby was a fun guy. He was 197 00:14:20.879 --> 00:14:24.679 a different guy. Friends with musicians, people like James Brown. 198 00:14:24.799 --> 00:14:26.879 He was a real fun guy. And he was a 199 00:14:26.960 --> 00:14:31.120 hotel developer and a creative genius according to his friends. 200 00:14:32.720 --> 00:14:36.159 Tell us who catches his eye in the fall of 201 00:14:36.279 --> 00:14:40.360 nineteen seventy seven, and what is his circumstances in terms 202 00:14:40.399 --> 00:14:43.399 of his own personal relationship? 203 00:14:44.159 --> 00:14:48.039 Why I applaud your recollection of the story. Yeah, Bobby, 204 00:14:48.799 --> 00:14:52.480 he came from a Tyler, Texas oil family. It's kind 205 00:14:52.480 --> 00:14:57.480 of an interest worth a brief digression. Tyler is in 206 00:14:57.559 --> 00:15:01.279 the middle of the East Texas oil field, excuse me, 207 00:15:01.399 --> 00:15:05.759 one of the great oil fields in American petroleum history. H. L. 208 00:15:06.039 --> 00:15:09.919 Hunt Herbert Lamar Hunt, at one point was the richest 209 00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:12.639 man in the world. He made his fortune in the 210 00:15:12.720 --> 00:15:16.879 East Texas oil patch. Bobby grew up in Tyler. His 211 00:15:17.039 --> 00:15:20.799 dad was an oil man. His dad's nickname was slant 212 00:15:20.919 --> 00:15:25.080 hole Billy. His name was William Bridwell, but in petroleum 213 00:15:25.159 --> 00:15:28.600 circles he's called slant hole Billy. And that's because he 214 00:15:28.720 --> 00:15:35.679 got caught horizontal drilling into a Texico lease, So slant 215 00:15:35.720 --> 00:15:39.200 hoole horizontal drilling. In other words, he was he was 216 00:15:39.639 --> 00:15:43.799 stuck as straw in someone else's milkshake and got caught. 217 00:15:44.639 --> 00:15:49.440 And so Bobby did not follow his dad's footsteps into 218 00:15:49.480 --> 00:15:52.440 the oil business. He caught into hotel development and it 219 00:15:52.559 --> 00:15:55.799 was very good at it. He became friends with Eric 220 00:15:55.960 --> 00:16:00.480 Hilton and some big money guys that invested in his hotel. 221 00:16:01.080 --> 00:16:04.919 Richard Pugh of the Sun Oil Trust and Bobby were friends. 222 00:16:05.799 --> 00:16:09.759 Bobby was also interested in racehorses, and he owned a 223 00:16:09.919 --> 00:16:14.799 racehorse at Thoroughbred racehorse breeding operation just north of Dallas. 224 00:16:15.480 --> 00:16:19.360 He had a beautiful Southern bell wife. His first marriage 225 00:16:19.559 --> 00:16:23.679 was a beautiful Southern bell from Virginia. He caught her 226 00:16:24.120 --> 00:16:29.120 having an affair with the horse trainer, and that would 227 00:16:29.120 --> 00:16:33.519 have been in somewhere around nineteen seventy seven. Was very 228 00:16:33.600 --> 00:16:39.480 despondent about it. It dampened his usually enthusiastic high spirits 229 00:16:39.559 --> 00:16:42.799 for fun and for life, kind of knocked down his 230 00:16:42.919 --> 00:16:48.480 ego a bit. And the fall of seventy seven his 231 00:16:48.639 --> 00:16:52.000 friends were really worried about him, and they thought we 232 00:16:52.080 --> 00:16:54.759 got to cheer him up. So for his thirty six birthday, 233 00:16:55.480 --> 00:16:58.200 they invited a young woman. Her name at that time 234 00:16:58.360 --> 00:17:03.080 was Sandras Stiegel. Sandra's first husband was a guy named 235 00:17:03.159 --> 00:17:08.119 David Stiegel, a prominent dentist who apparently committed suicide as 236 00:17:08.319 --> 00:17:12.880 people understood it at the time, committed suicide, shot himself 237 00:17:13.000 --> 00:17:17.720 in his marital bed in his home, and so thereby 238 00:17:18.759 --> 00:17:25.160 widowing Sandra. But Sandra was known as a very beautiful, vivacious, 239 00:17:25.359 --> 00:17:29.200 fun girl. So one of his buddies invited Sander to 240 00:17:29.359 --> 00:17:33.799 the party to cheer Bobby up, and they set it 241 00:17:33.920 --> 00:17:37.200 up where she jumped out of a giant birthday cake 242 00:17:37.480 --> 00:17:41.720 wearing a slinky dress. Bobby was quite charmed. Sandra was 243 00:17:41.759 --> 00:17:46.559 a very beautiful girl, and quickly was smitten and proposed 244 00:17:46.640 --> 00:17:50.720 marriage just a few months later. So now Sandra, who 245 00:17:51.000 --> 00:17:55.240 is a widow just a few years later, is now 246 00:17:55.400 --> 00:18:00.240 married to Bobby Bridwell, who's probably no exaggeration to say 247 00:18:00.279 --> 00:18:01.960 he's the most popular guy. 248 00:18:01.880 --> 00:18:03.079 In Dallas society. 249 00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:07.759 I mean literally just everybody loves Bobby, and so Sandra 250 00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:12.200 briefly enjoys a period is something like a Dallas social 251 00:18:12.319 --> 00:18:15.880 lighte and Bobby was friends with the Hunts and the 252 00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:20.200 Winds and all of these oil people in Dallas. So 253 00:18:20.359 --> 00:18:23.759 she's invited to the cattle barons ball in the society, 254 00:18:24.839 --> 00:18:27.279 you know, charity balls and all this kind of stuff, 255 00:18:27.359 --> 00:18:32.680 and she cut quite a figure. Unfortunately, Bobby was not 256 00:18:33.119 --> 00:18:38.160 long for this world. He was diagnosed with lymphoma at 257 00:18:38.240 --> 00:18:42.279 the end of well, I should say beginning of nineteen eighty, 258 00:18:43.519 --> 00:18:48.319 and it soon became apparent, I think late eighty maybe 259 00:18:48.400 --> 00:18:51.920 eighty one, that he was a goner. It was around 260 00:18:52.440 --> 00:18:57.759 the end of Bobby's life that Sandra, by multiple witness accounts, 261 00:18:57.799 --> 00:19:04.160 took a fancy in his treating doctor his treating doctor, 262 00:19:04.319 --> 00:19:09.640 doctor John Bagwell. Like I said, he was a prominent doctor. 263 00:19:10.480 --> 00:19:16.319 He's probably the go to cancer doctor for Dallas society. 264 00:19:17.480 --> 00:19:21.599 My grandmother was his patient in nineteen eighty, the same 265 00:19:21.720 --> 00:19:26.440 year as is Bobby Bridewell, and Sandra took a fancy 266 00:19:26.640 --> 00:19:31.880 to the doctor. It was about two months after Bobby 267 00:19:31.960 --> 00:19:37.960 Bridewell's succumb to lymphoma that the doctor's wife, Betsy was 268 00:19:38.039 --> 00:19:40.119 then found shot to death at love Field. 269 00:19:42.519 --> 00:19:47.759 Yes, and police make no connection whatsoever between these two things, 270 00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:48.559 do they. 271 00:19:50.279 --> 00:19:58.759 Well. Sandra actually showed up at the Bagwell residence on 272 00:19:59.079 --> 00:20:03.079 the night of bets He's death while the police were 273 00:20:03.160 --> 00:20:08.000 still there, and she said, I was just dining with 274 00:20:08.200 --> 00:20:12.400 some friends when doctor Bagwell called me at the restaurant 275 00:20:13.160 --> 00:20:16.359 and he was frantically looking for Betsy. And he asked 276 00:20:16.400 --> 00:20:18.920 me if I knew where she was, and I said 277 00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:22.640 that I did not. I had not seen Betsy since 278 00:20:22.680 --> 00:20:24.559 about five o'clock this afternoon. 279 00:20:25.599 --> 00:20:26.039 Betsy. 280 00:20:26.599 --> 00:20:31.039 This is what Sandra tells the Dallas police. Betsy gave 281 00:20:31.119 --> 00:20:35.279 me a ride to love Field Airport to rent a car, 282 00:20:36.559 --> 00:20:39.640 and when we arrived at the airport, I discovered I'd 283 00:20:39.759 --> 00:20:44.799 forgotten my driver's license, so Betsy gave me a ride 284 00:20:45.160 --> 00:20:50.039 back to my vehicle that had broken down. And when 285 00:20:50.119 --> 00:20:52.640 we got back to my vehicle, I thought, you know, 286 00:20:52.920 --> 00:20:55.839 it wouldn't start earlier, but maybe it will start now. 287 00:20:56.599 --> 00:20:59.359 I got into my vehicle. To my pleasant surprise, it 288 00:20:59.440 --> 00:21:04.039 started up. And so I parted company from Betsy at 289 00:21:04.079 --> 00:21:08.440 five o'clock at the church. Don't know why she would 290 00:21:08.480 --> 00:21:12.839 then drive back to love Field and enter the parking 291 00:21:12.920 --> 00:21:16.559 lot and shoot herself, but I don't know. She must 292 00:21:16.599 --> 00:21:22.039 have been despondent. So the Dallas police sort of take 293 00:21:22.160 --> 00:21:27.599 notes from Sandra and they don't pursue any kind of 294 00:21:28.319 --> 00:21:33.880 examination of her. And as I discovered, it's rather strange. 295 00:21:34.359 --> 00:21:39.000 The doctor's wife, excuse me, the doctor's husband, doctor John Bagwell, 296 00:21:39.960 --> 00:21:41.279 for whatever reasons. 297 00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:43.200 I mean, this is my starting point. 298 00:21:43.359 --> 00:21:47.480 It seems that he is not telling the police to 299 00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:53.200 take a look at Betsy's last known contact. He doesn't, 300 00:21:53.799 --> 00:21:58.160 at least not with any vehemence, encourage the police to 301 00:21:58.559 --> 00:22:04.720 examine sand Or Bridewell, even though by Sandra's own account, 302 00:22:05.799 --> 00:22:08.440 she was Betsy's last known contact. 303 00:22:10.319 --> 00:22:16.839 When Detective Coughlin speaks with Sandra, she tells him about 304 00:22:17.039 --> 00:22:20.279 what Betsy had said regarding suicide. 305 00:22:21.000 --> 00:22:25.559 What Sandra told Detective Coglin was, I spent the day 306 00:22:25.640 --> 00:22:29.440 with Betsy. We talked about many themes, and one of 307 00:22:29.559 --> 00:22:31.880 the things that she wanted to talk to me about 308 00:22:32.440 --> 00:22:36.759 was the suicide of my first husband. She seemed very 309 00:22:36.920 --> 00:22:40.839 curious about that, and we want to know about my 310 00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:44.519 husband's suicide and how he did it and why he 311 00:22:44.680 --> 00:22:47.799 did it, and so that was one of the things 312 00:22:47.880 --> 00:22:52.880 we talked about. Sandra also told the police to that 313 00:22:53.000 --> 00:22:59.839 Betsy seemed despondent. She mentioned a nurse at her husband's 314 00:22:59.839 --> 00:23:03.759 house hospital that she was concerned about, and so the 315 00:23:03.880 --> 00:23:09.279 implication that Sandra, or the impression she made on the 316 00:23:10.160 --> 00:23:15.720 detective was that Betsy was despondent, she had wanted to 317 00:23:15.799 --> 00:23:22.759 speak expressly with Sandra about suicide. So the police records 318 00:23:22.839 --> 00:23:26.759 of all of this are rather thin, but it seems 319 00:23:27.119 --> 00:23:32.279 clear from what Detective Coglin did write in his supplemental 320 00:23:32.359 --> 00:23:36.960 report and what a medical examiner field agent wrote in 321 00:23:37.079 --> 00:23:41.599 his that the police detective concluded that Betsy must have 322 00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:46.960 had something like suicidal ideation and must have committed suicide, 323 00:23:47.640 --> 00:23:52.000 and that Sandra Bridwell's statement could just be taken at 324 00:23:52.079 --> 00:23:52.799 face value. 325 00:23:54.400 --> 00:23:58.599 Tell us about you write about that her daughter was 326 00:23:58.759 --> 00:24:03.599 pursuing John Bagwell was in terms of trying to convince 327 00:24:03.680 --> 00:24:06.680 him that they needed a new daddy. And you also 328 00:24:06.759 --> 00:24:10.200 talk about private eye al Teel, who was hired by 329 00:24:10.400 --> 00:24:17.160 doctor Bagwell to look into this Sandra's background. So tell 330 00:24:17.240 --> 00:24:20.799 us about what he does find and yeah, tell us 331 00:24:20.839 --> 00:24:22.519 what Altel finds. 332 00:24:23.079 --> 00:24:23.279 Well. 333 00:24:23.440 --> 00:24:27.039 So what happens is a month after the case is 334 00:24:27.160 --> 00:24:31.119 closed on Betsy. What I was able to determine, and 335 00:24:31.240 --> 00:24:34.920 it was not easy. Doctor Bagwell did not want to 336 00:24:35.039 --> 00:24:38.680 speak to me. He refused to and nor did Betsy's 337 00:24:38.720 --> 00:24:41.680 closest friends agree to speak to me. Even though I 338 00:24:41.839 --> 00:24:46.440 have good family connections with these people. They preferred silent. 339 00:24:46.880 --> 00:24:50.519 So it wasn't wasn't immediate. But what I was able 340 00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:55.359 to discover is that a month after Betsy's death, doctor 341 00:24:55.480 --> 00:24:58.880 Bagwell went and had a private meeting with the Dallas 342 00:24:58.960 --> 00:25:03.319 County medically And you can see from the medical Examiner's 343 00:25:03.359 --> 00:25:08.119 memo of the conversation it was a discreet and collegial conversation, 344 00:25:09.200 --> 00:25:13.480 and doctor Bagwell said, you know, the police ruled this 345 00:25:14.559 --> 00:25:19.000 a suicide, but you know, I'm concerned about the wife 346 00:25:19.279 --> 00:25:23.599 of a former patient who died of cancer. In spite 347 00:25:23.640 --> 00:25:27.319 of my best care, and she seems to have a 348 00:25:27.440 --> 00:25:33.279 profound emotional problem. I don't want her to know that 349 00:25:34.039 --> 00:25:35.839 I'm trying to learn more about her. 350 00:25:36.400 --> 00:25:37.319 I am. 351 00:25:37.519 --> 00:25:42.279 This is doctor Bagwell telling the Medical Examiner. He says, 352 00:25:42.400 --> 00:25:48.119 I'm contemplating hiring a private investigator to examine this woman. 353 00:25:49.039 --> 00:25:53.200 And doctor Charles Petty, the Medical Examiner, notes in his memo, 354 00:25:53.960 --> 00:25:57.160 you know, I told doctor Bagwell, and this is important. 355 00:25:57.960 --> 00:26:01.519 You know, I can know more be certain of my 356 00:26:01.960 --> 00:26:08.680 suicide ruling, then he could be certain of a diagnosis 357 00:26:08.759 --> 00:26:12.799 in his clinical practice. So yes, hire a detective, and 358 00:26:12.880 --> 00:26:17.079 if you should discover something suspicious about this woman, let 359 00:26:17.200 --> 00:26:17.480 me know. 360 00:26:19.039 --> 00:26:20.279 So that's clearly. 361 00:26:20.039 --> 00:26:26.519 Noted and doctor Charles Petty the Medical Examiner's memo. But 362 00:26:26.680 --> 00:26:30.319 then only later, and I mean, you know this is 363 00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:33.880 years and years later, was I able to discover Doctor 364 00:26:34.039 --> 00:26:38.279 Bagwell did hire a private investigator, a guy named al Teel. 365 00:26:39.079 --> 00:26:44.279 Altel did look into Sandra, and he did put together 366 00:26:44.400 --> 00:26:51.079 a pretty good dosier of information, but he didn't give 367 00:26:51.160 --> 00:26:55.480 it to the medical examiner. It's nowhere in the medical 368 00:26:55.599 --> 00:26:59.960 Examiner's records. And then there is a trace evidence special 369 00:27:00.200 --> 00:27:05.880 lists who confirm knowing never received anything further from doctor 370 00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:11.200 Bagwell or any of the professionals he had working for him. 371 00:27:11.640 --> 00:27:17.119 So it's this weird doctor Bagwell hired PI. The PI 372 00:27:18.160 --> 00:27:23.200 generated a dosia of information, but then that wasn't forwarded 373 00:27:23.319 --> 00:27:28.920 to the medical examiner. So what Tiald discovered is that 374 00:27:30.279 --> 00:27:36.359 Sandra continued to stalk doctor Bagwell even after the death 375 00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:41.359 of Betsy. Sandra turned up at his medical offices. She 376 00:27:41.599 --> 00:27:44.640 cornered him in the parking lot, and yes, she had 377 00:27:44.720 --> 00:27:50.279 one of her children deliver a sort of childish drawing 378 00:27:51.240 --> 00:27:57.200 showing the Bagwell family united with the with the Bridewell family, 379 00:27:58.039 --> 00:28:03.279 and then the sort of child childish scrawled below this 380 00:28:03.680 --> 00:28:08.319 drawing saying, please take us all to Santa Fe. Marry 381 00:28:08.400 --> 00:28:11.640 my Mommy, take us all to Santa Fe where he 382 00:28:11.720 --> 00:28:11.960 had a. 383 00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:14.720 Vacation home, and we'll all be so happy together. 384 00:28:15.880 --> 00:28:20.680 That kind of freaked out doctor Bagwell receiving that note 385 00:28:20.799 --> 00:28:25.359 and with that childish drawing, he believed that Sandra had 386 00:28:25.400 --> 00:28:28.920 put the child up to it, and he was also 387 00:28:29.119 --> 00:28:34.039 freaked out about Sandra stalking at his medical offices. However, 388 00:28:35.720 --> 00:28:38.599 as I discovered from my investigation, and this is a 389 00:28:38.720 --> 00:28:43.599 very nuanced point, I could find no records of him 390 00:28:43.720 --> 00:28:48.799 telling the police, the Dallas Police, of divulging this information 391 00:28:49.799 --> 00:28:54.279 to the Dallas Police at the time the investigation was open. 392 00:28:55.559 --> 00:29:01.440 He only disclosed these revelations or this information four years later, 393 00:29:02.920 --> 00:29:06.759 and that's getting into another chapter of this. 394 00:29:07.839 --> 00:29:09.839 The Oklahoma City. 395 00:29:09.759 --> 00:29:17.160 Police came to Dallas four years after Betsy's death investigating 396 00:29:17.279 --> 00:29:22.640 the death of Sandra Bridwell's third husband, whom Sandra met 397 00:29:23.079 --> 00:29:28.240 two years after Betsy's death. The third husband also turns 398 00:29:28.359 --> 00:29:32.920 up shot to death in his vehicle in Oklahoma City. 399 00:29:33.519 --> 00:29:38.839 The Oklahoma City Police come to Dallas because of indications 400 00:29:39.039 --> 00:29:44.599 that the victim had probably been shot in Dallas and 401 00:29:44.799 --> 00:29:48.759