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Speaker 1: Dental Pros of Utah is located in American Fork at

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Speaker 2: Go Cougars.

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Speaker 1: This is Cougar Sports with Ben Krittle, and it's time

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for the.

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Speaker 3: Cougar Beat getting the dish from the local reporters that

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cover Cougar athletics. Welcome back Cougar Sports. One of three

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for little Cougar Beat. That's right, getting into the minds,

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hearing from the voices of covering the teams that you love.

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The segment's brought to you by Dental Pros off Utah

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out to the hot light. Welcome in action. Jackson Pain,

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beat writer for the desertt News. What's up, Jackson?

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Speaker 1: Then?

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Speaker 2: How we doing?

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Speaker 1: It's gonna be on living.

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Speaker 3: The dream man, just talking ball, talking basketball, talking football.

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It's it's a great day. It's a beautiful day. We

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got plenty of moisture. We've been praying, we've been fast,

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and we've got the moisture. And we got some ball

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to talk about as well. Let's start off with some basketball,

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shall we. Where are you at with these basketball team?

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Jackson Pain? What's the ceiling and floor of this Cougar,

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Cajor squad man.

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Speaker 2: It's all how times have changed, right, Just the expectations

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were so lofty and Yu was playing some great basketball

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just a few weeks ago, and you know, they hit

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a rough patch. Richie Saunders is out and I don't

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want to say this guy is falling, but things definitely

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feel a bit less bright than they once did. You know,

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the ceiling of this team. It's tough to say, because

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when you have Aja Debonsa in a must win game,

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anything can happen. You know, He's just he's always going

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to be the best player on the floor, no matter

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who b WHYU is playing, and so By is always

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gonna have a chance in that regard. But at the

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same time, like, I don't think this is a Final

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four team right now. The Elite eight even seems way

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too far away. It's just I think if they make

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the Sweet sixteen in their current form, I think that's

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a huge success. And so yeah, Sweet sixteen feels like

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the current ceiling. Obviously, things can change if if they

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can get some help to maybe step up from the

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bench in the absence of Richie Saunders, but Sweet sixteen

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feels like the ceiling right now. I think, you know,

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it's hard to think that they they'll lose in the

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first round. All of their losses this year are really

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quality losses, aside from probably the Oklahoma State. I know

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that's still a Quad one loss, but b why you

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should not have lost that game?

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: So I don't think if they're six seed or a

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seven seed, I don't think they're going to lose to

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a ten or eleven. So I think the floor is

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a round of thirty two. Ceiling is probably Sweet sixteen.

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But maybe a week from now, maybe they knock off

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Iowa State and we feel a bit different. Maybe Tyler

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Maruss or Alexei Kostich or Heilo Boskovich or somebody steps

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up and turns into a flame thrower down the stretch

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and gives you why you another scoring threat. But yeah,

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if I were to answer right now, it feels like

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Sweet sixteen is the ceiling, thirty two is the floor.

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Speaker 3: It's fun. I was chatting with JT about like two philosophies,

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two ways to approach you know, this BAU basketball team,

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and he said, look, one thing you can do is

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you can go all offensive, right, you know, start Tyler

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Maruss and get as many minutes at election costick, give

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them green lights, Hilo Boskovic and just get buckets as

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many bucks as you can. Try to instill confidence in

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those guys. You may have a dearth of you may

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have some issues defensively. You already have issues defensively. He said,

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that's one round. Or you can insert hidem Boop a

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little bit more, give him more minutes, expand his role. Yeah,

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he's not an offensive threat, but he rebounds and he

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plays great defense, and he has great intensity while he's

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on the floor, which will provide the best fruits, the

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best return on investment. In your opinion, which way do

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you lean going? Maybe more defensive minded, more rebounding minded,

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and like just let you know your your your your

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key offensive players AJ and Rob Wright do do their

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work offensively in Canard. I think Cannard could take a

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big step forward too. He's gonna have to play forty

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minutes a game in order for Melia to win. Where

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do you lean?

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Speaker 2: I lean whichever way? Gets Adean Boop four minutes and

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touched on it earlier. I'm a I'm a boot believer.

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I broke down you know. I was in Tucson earlier

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this week for the loss. B you what, you trotted

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out seventeen unique lineups in the game. I mean they

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were really just throwing everything at the wall. And the

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lineup that stuck the longest they played nine minutes together

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and had the most success was the starting five with

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with Boop in instead of Boskovic, so it was rob

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aj Kba Canard and then Boop. They were plus eleven

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and nine minutes. They were the ones who had that

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great stretch down the end that almost you know, got

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Blu back into the game when they cut the lead

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to five. Boop is just you know, he's he's like

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a solar battery. He gets he makes things happen. Is hustle,

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the non box score stuff that Richie was so great at,

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the defense, the rebounding, getting transition stuff on offense. You

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know you saw it at Arizona where you got the

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steal and then got the bucket from it. I'm just

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I just think he's a winning player and good things

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happen when he's on the floor. I understand why Boskovic started.

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It made sense just giving the matchup with Arizona size

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and maybe trying to get something going from the perimeter early.

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You know, he took those two early threes that I

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wish maybe Rob had taken. I thought it was strange

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that it took Rob twelve minutes to attempt to three.

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Just you feel like if Aj is going to run

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the offense, you would think Rob would play being playing

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off the ball more would be spotting up for threes.

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But that's a whole other discussion. But that's the thing.

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Like I just when when Bosvitch took those two threes,

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I was like, you know, maybe Boom should be in

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set the tone defensively early, be trying to compete on

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the glass, give Rob an Aj and Canard more of

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those valuable touches from the outside, and then rely on

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them for the shot making and then have Kaba and

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even playing around the rim. So I'm all about Boop.

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I think that he's I don't think they've unlocked a

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death lineup because Byu, like like you said earlier, they

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have defensive issues. It's just it's gonna be tough for

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them to put anyone away down the stretch. But I

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really think putting Boop in that starting five and giving

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him more run going forward is By's best chance forward

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at success.

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Speaker 3: What's your theory on why b YU basketball has had

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so many season ending injuries this year. I don't know,

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just you know, as that question Jackson. Have we asked

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that question to Ky, you know, being like I'm never

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on the zooms, I'm never in front of them, you know,

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So I don't know if it's been asked. I don't

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know if it's been answered.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I haven't heard that question. I mean, I think

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it's just one of those fluky things, right, Like you

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know some teams, like it feels like I always bring

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up the Commanders when I'm on your show, but I'm

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gonna do it again. Jade and Daniel's rookie season, they

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had like the best injury luck in the NFL. Last

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year they had the worst injury luck. I think just

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sometimes it comes in waves and sometimes it doesn't. You know,

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It's just it's a weird thing. I think it's interesting

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that the two return missionaries on the team and the

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rotation in Dawson Baker and Richie Saunders both to ACLS.

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I don't think missions have anything to do with that.

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It's just, you know, your oldest two players toward their

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ACL Like on paper, that probably does seem suspicious, but

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at the same time, you know, having witnessed both injuries live,

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I just they were both kind of fluky things, non contact.

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It's just, you know, why are so many's tearing in

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the in the NBA right now? You know why are

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so many baseball pitchers having Tommy John Like, it's just injuries.

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Just it's just a part of the game, right Like,

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it's it's unfortunate that it's come to BYU because we'll

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never get to see what this BYU team was at

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full strength, it feels like and that that's a real shame.

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And I think, you know, if if you're looking for

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a silver lining, you can it's kind of it's it's

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just a great what if with BYU basketball, right Like,

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what if Brandon Davies doesn't get suspended? What if BYU

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beats UCLA in that first round in twenty one? What

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if the COVID Tournament doesn't get canceled? Uh?

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Speaker 1: What if you know, what.

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Speaker 2: If Alabama doesn't shoot the greatest three point shooting night

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in the history of college basketball last year?

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Speaker 3: What if?

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Speaker 2: What if this team didn't have injuries?

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Speaker 1: You know?

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Speaker 2: Uh, So, you know, it's just it's it's a it's

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a disappointment, but I don't think there's a nuclear facility

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next to the Merritt Center, the way there is with

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the Niners facility in San Francisco. But it's it's just

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a bummer, man. I don't think there's any one specific reason.

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It's just it's just fluky, fluky, weird sadness.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it is. It is fluky, It is weirdness. It

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is sadness. Uh and uh, I'm here for all the

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conspiracy theories. Anyone want to bring them to my uh,

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to my attention, DM me at crital Benjamin Jackson. This uh,

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this BA basketball team has to find a way to

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win uh this uh towards the end of the season

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and into the Big Twell tournament in the NCAA tournament.

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Is there a certain level of like, how do you

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think Cougar Nation's feeling about it right now? Like, uh,

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how the donors are feeling about it right now? Did

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they get their return on investment this season? Right are they?

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Do you feel like it will deter these corporate sponsors,

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these these big time donors from extending their hand out

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uh with their their dollar dollar bills, y'all to Cougar Athletics,

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Cougar basketball in particular, Do they feel like they got

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what they were looking for with the allocation of resources

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this year.

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Speaker 2: I don't know how they're feeling, but I don't think

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they should feel bad or regret any of the money spent,

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because the money spent went a long way. Like AJ

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is the best player in college basketball. He should be

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the number one pick because they'll actually play basketball. And

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like Darren Peterson, you know, it's a point in television

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for everyone across the country when AJ plays, because he's

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gonna score thirty five every night. Rob Wright has been fantastic.

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Richie Saunders was fantastic until he got hurt. And I

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think too like I think too often we collectively expect

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immediate everything understanding. Just we expect immediate greatness from Kevin Young.

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And you know, he took you all here to the Fund,

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he took you out to the Sweet sixteen last year.

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He's had some great recruiting success, but he's he's been

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in the NBA for a while, Like this is year

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two running a college program for him, Like we got

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to give him a little bit of a learning curve,

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Like he's gonna have some swings and misses in the

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recruiting scene. You know, there's gonna be things that he

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gets wrong, and that's fine, Like this is just if

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you want to build a really strong program, you have

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to go through growing pains. And I think they made

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the Sweet sixteen last year and that was great, and

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there were Final four aspirations this year, but it's really

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hard to win in the tournament. Like there's a reason

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why bu BYUS had two extremely long stretches without tournament wins.

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I think from ninety it was either ninety two or

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ninety three to twenty ten they went winless, and then

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from twenty eleven to or twenty twelve to twenty twenty five,

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Like that's two really long stretches without getting a single

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tournament win. It is really hard to win in March.

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And so I think you know, BYU, if they get

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to the Sweet seat teen again, that's two Sweet sixteens

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in two years. That's doubling BYU Sweet sixteen appearances in

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the modern era. Like that's a great start to build

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a great program. And so the injuries with this team

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have been really unfortunate. It's something that I don't think

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you can prevent. That's just the way it goes. Like

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your injuries are gonna happen, and BYU right now doesn't

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have the depth to compete. And you know they were built,

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they were deep going into the season, But when Pickens

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goes down and Baker goes down, and Richie goes down,

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and you don't really get to see Kazlowski all this year,

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and some of the other pieces aren't clicking so far,

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Like that's just that's just how many sometimes like you're

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not gonna make You're not gonna make all your shots.

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And so I think, you know, BUYU can still salvage

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the season and still go out on a high note

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with a sweet sixteen or even further. But at the

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same time, like we just it was never gonna be

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a two year program juggernaut six right, Like if it

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happened this year, great, But at the same time, it

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was gonna take time to build what BYU really wants

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to accomplish with Kevin Yong. And so I don't think

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this should dissuade any donors or any pockets from being

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opened for BYU in the future, because Kevin Young's proven

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he can bring top talent to provo. Guys like AJ,

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guys like Rob Wright, guys like Yegor I've done incredible things.

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And look at Yegor right now, I mean walking into

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the arena with a Book of Mormon talking about how

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much he loved BYU and just such a great ambassador

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for BYU. And you got someone like Aja taking mission

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prep and Book of Mormon and talking to the broadcasters,

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but how much he loves a Book of Mormon class

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and he'll go forth to serve when he he's finished at BYU,

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and he'll be an ambassador for the school. And so

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it goes beyond dollars and cents and wins and losses,

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the just the idea that these these these players who

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have such a great influence worldwide, Yegor and Russia. Aj,

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if he becomes the next big thing in the NBA,

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these guys can can go and be ambassadors for BYU.

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Like you can't put a dollar amount on that. And

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so I mean, look, it's the I've gone on for

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a while, but it's a bummer that BYU's injuries have

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kind of derailed what should have been a Final four

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team on paper. But at the same time, just the

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talent that they brought in, Like it's not on ky,

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It's not like no one should be dissuaded to spend

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money and going forward.

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Speaker 3: Can by fans uh critique and criticize maybe the roster construction.

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Do you think it was it too top heavy in

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your opinion? Or did by you just have bad luck

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with season ending injuries. You look at guys like a Gallon, Hall, Tanner, Toolson,

295
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Jake Wallen, your traditional like BYU. Remember they were all

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at b YU at one point in their careers or

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they were committed to BYU at one point in their careers.

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And you can't always just hoard all the LDS talent,

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right A. Colin Chandler's at Kentucky's doing nice things with

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00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:20,159
coach Mark Pope, et cetera. But you wonder it's like, Okay,

301
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well how you allocating resources? Did we did? Did b

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what you go too top heavy? Or or did they

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did they? Did they roster construct the right way? Is

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what I'm getting at here? Can you critique that?

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00:14:32,759 --> 00:14:35,039
Speaker 2: I mean, maybe they could have used another guard before

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the season, But at the same time, Nate picking the

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00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:38,919
man like that's that was supposed to be your seventh man,

308
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:41,960
Dawson Baker supposed to be your sixth man. B YU

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last year had some pretty good injury luck aside from

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Jago or missing a stretch and kind of being off

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00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:49,480
for a little bit of the season. But it's just,

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00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:51,720
I mean, you can always expect maybe one or two

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00:14:51,759 --> 00:14:55,000
season ending injuries, but four is just an absurd amount, right,

314
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Like you lose your your your veteran leader and your

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your first team all big twelve talent. You lose your

316
00:15:02,639 --> 00:15:05,600
sixth man who's another great veterans shot maker, you miss

317
00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:08,559
a three and D guy off the bench, and like,

318
00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:11,320
I don't know, man, it's just maybe Maruss and co

319
00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:15,559
Stitch are maybe maybe that's maybe maybe those there was

320
00:15:15,679 --> 00:15:17,480
better money to be spent elsewhere. But at the same time,

321
00:15:17,559 --> 00:15:19,200
you know they could also go in a heater and

322
00:15:19,559 --> 00:15:26,080
totally totally redeem themselves, right, I think too, Like you know,

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at this, like I said, last year when the season ended,

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obviously the cannon catchings thing, he was a super highly

325
00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:36,159
sauttered recruit. He came in, he had moments, but by

326
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the end of the year the shine was off and

327
00:15:38,279 --> 00:15:41,480
he was kind of disengaged. Just it was pretty clear

328
00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:43,919
he was going to move on, and when mag and

329
00:15:43,919 --> 00:15:46,840
Stewart kind of stepped in his place. BYU season turned around,

330
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and you know, it didn't work out for catchings at BUYU,

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And I think my my perspective at that point was,

332
00:15:51,559 --> 00:15:55,039
you know, that's a that was a learning experience for Ky, right,

333
00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:58,120
like he had to he had to have a miss

334
00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:02,080
of that degree recruiting in order to better figure out

335
00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:04,759
his recruiting going forward. You know, Like I think I

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00:16:04,799 --> 00:16:07,240
thought that could be a positive experience for him. Maybe

337
00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:09,120
I'm too optimistic, but I just thought, you know, he's

338
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recruiting at the college level for the first time. Maybe

339
00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:14,799
there were things that he overlooked with cannon catchings that

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00:16:14,799 --> 00:16:15,919
he can correct going forward.

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: And so I think maybe this year, with the way

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00:16:18,279 --> 00:16:20,519
that they constructed the roster and the way that injuries

344
00:16:20,559 --> 00:16:22,600
took over, maybe he goes, Okay, maybe we do need

345
00:16:22,879 --> 00:16:25,120
a change of pace back to the basket type big

346
00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,120
every year. We can't just go with two rib rollers

347
00:16:28,159 --> 00:16:32,679
in Kaba and Ahmed. Maybe we need more guards because

348
00:16:32,679 --> 00:16:35,039
guard play wins in March, and if you lose your

349
00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:38,320
two best guards off the bench, that spells disaster. Right Like,

350
00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:42,360
so I just think, yeah, maybe there are roster critiques

351
00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:47,320
to be made. Injuries happened and BYU so far hasn't

352
00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:49,080
been able to respond to the injuries. But at the

353
00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:51,639
same time, like, I'm not trying to carry Kevin Young's water,

354
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but at the same time, like these are learning experiences,

355
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and I think if you want him to be the

356
00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:58,960
long term solution and stick around approval for a while,

357
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he got to give him some space to learn these

358
00:17:01,679 --> 00:17:03,320
things and figure it out for himself, because the college

359
00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:05,599
game is so different from the NBA game, and also

360
00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:08,440
just the landscape of college supports is changing so rapidly

361
00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:11,240
and so drastically. I mean just the fact I sound

362
00:17:11,279 --> 00:17:13,240
like an old man right now, but like just the

363
00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:16,759
fact that we're getting these running it back graphics from

364
00:17:16,799 --> 00:17:18,799
from true freshman. It's like, yeah, you should be running

365
00:17:18,799 --> 00:17:21,640
it back right, Like It's just it's such a bizarre

366
00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:24,039
world and having to learn that on the fly is

367
00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:27,319
pretty pretty challenging, I imagine. And so I think these

368
00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:29,599
are lessons to be learned going forward for Kevin Young,

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00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:32,240
and I think he'll be all the better for it.

370
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Speaker 3: Yeah, you just wonder if, like I know, they had

371
00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,359
like Tanner Twison come take a visit, right, and maybe

372
00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:46,599
the role that they were pitching wasn't as robust the

373
00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:50,559
minutes allocations, et cetera, that he was probably looking for.

374
00:17:50,599 --> 00:17:53,240
I want to say, I want to say, Tanner Toolson

375
00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:56,480
is getting maybe twenty minutes a game for TCU, if

376
00:17:56,519 --> 00:17:59,880
I'm not mistaken, I think, you know, maybe he wouldn't

377
00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:01,880
get twenty minutes a game, right he you know, I

378
00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:06,200
think it's eighteen point just under twenty minutes, eighteen point six.

379
00:18:07,559 --> 00:18:12,440
Dallan hall has although he's been a starter, but I

380
00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:16,200
don't think he's necessarily been a star for the the

381
00:18:16,519 --> 00:18:21,000
Who's right he has he's averaging twenty five point I

382
00:18:21,079 --> 00:18:24,200
want to say, no, yeah, twenty five twenty eight minutes,

383
00:18:24,599 --> 00:18:27,759
twenty eight minutes, almost thirty minutes a game. So I

384
00:18:27,759 --> 00:18:29,640
mean he's getting minutes, that's for certain there for the

385
00:18:29,759 --> 00:18:32,640
for the Cattalis, the who's rising out there for four

386
00:18:32,759 --> 00:18:35,519
hundred ninety seven pounder out of the great state of

387
00:18:35,519 --> 00:18:38,960
you tough one review a you Cougar. But you just wonder,

388
00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:41,480
it's like, hey, did did we miss the mark on

389
00:18:41,599 --> 00:18:47,480
our retention and our acquisitions? Did these guys, you know, Tanner, Dallen,

390
00:18:48,039 --> 00:18:51,440
Jake Quaaleen, were they you know, was there a strong

391
00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:54,880
pitch made to them to stay at BYU, to be

392
00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:58,680
at BYU or did they like they're like, you know what,

393
00:18:58,759 --> 00:19:00,319
it's just not going to work out and they just

394
00:19:00,319 --> 00:19:03,160
had to part their separate ways. Any thoughts there about

395
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:07,119
some of the players that went elsewhere, transferred elsewhere and

396
00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:09,440
the impact that they could have made on this team.

397
00:19:10,839 --> 00:19:13,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think about Dollen Hall a lot. I was

398
00:19:13,799 --> 00:19:15,839
a big Dallen Hall fan. I just I thought he

399
00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:18,920
was a really great just kind of facilitator and he

400
00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:21,240
could shoot the ball a little, and I just it's

401
00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:23,160
a bummer that he left because I thought maybe that

402
00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:27,160
core going into Like I remember after the Sweet sixteen thinking, okay,

403
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:31,119
by you had a great core of Richie Saunders, Kavacida,

404
00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:34,599
Dollen Hall, Dawson Baker, and then you add aj to

405
00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:36,279
Bonson whoever else did they get in the portal, Like

406
00:19:36,279 --> 00:19:38,720
that's a really good team next year, And when Dallen leaves,

407
00:19:38,759 --> 00:19:40,799
it's like, Okay, well that's kind of a bummer. But

408
00:19:40,839 --> 00:19:43,920
then you get Rob Right and it's like, okay, maybe

409
00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:45,799
they upgrade, they have a more explosive option to the

410
00:19:45,799 --> 00:19:48,640
point guard. But you know, Dollan his kind the kind

411
00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:50,599
of change of pace he brought last year when when

412
00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:52,200
he would come in off the bench with foos and

413
00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:54,680
they would they would do they would kind of slow

414
00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:56,319
the game down and go down low, and it was

415
00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,039
just it was really refreshing and it put it gave

416
00:19:59,079 --> 00:20:02,640
Bay you another a layer, another wrinkle that was really

417
00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:05,279
helpful for them. I think Dallen Hall and this team

418
00:20:05,319 --> 00:20:08,240
right now would be a really important player. I remember

419
00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:10,680
a buddy of mine does radio in Virginia and he

420
00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:12,559
interviewed Dallen and was just saying he knew He's like,

421
00:20:12,559 --> 00:20:14,519
it's my senior year, I want to pick my own coach.

422
00:20:15,559 --> 00:20:17,680
And that was kind of the rationale. And you know,

423
00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:20,920
obviously Odom recruited him out of high school at Utah

424
00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:23,079
State and then he goes to UVA and he needs

425
00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:25,960
a veteran point guard to kind of jump start that program.

426
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,319
And it just it made sense, right, Like it made

427
00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:29,920
sense for Yu to move on. It made sense for

428
00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:32,240
down Hall to leave. But at the same time, it's

429
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:34,119
a bummer for him because it's a bummer for Yu

430
00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:36,440
because another guard would really help this team right now.

431
00:20:36,599 --> 00:20:38,559
But at the same time, I just think too, like

432
00:20:40,279 --> 00:20:42,519
you know, maybe by you have to strike this right

433
00:20:42,599 --> 00:20:48,000
balance between kind of your four year program, foundation players,

434
00:20:48,079 --> 00:20:50,079
the LDS talent, the other guys who can come in

435
00:20:50,079 --> 00:20:52,160
here and be kind of the way that Gonzaga does it,

436
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:54,839
where like they'll have Drew Timmy for four or five years,

437
00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:57,079
but then they'll have a Chet Holmgren on one and done.

438
00:20:57,079 --> 00:20:58,920
Like you have your one and done, your NBA type

439
00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:01,160
guys who come and go, but you have your kind

440
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:05,400
of solid foundation of a four year LDS or local talent,

441
00:21:05,759 --> 00:21:08,880
the Trevin Nell, the Richie Saunders, anybody else. It doesn't

442
00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:10,680
have to be LDS kids too, but like you know,

443
00:21:10,759 --> 00:21:12,400
you would think like, oh, a team with Dallen Hall

444
00:21:12,519 --> 00:21:16,480
or Jake Qualeen Oranna Toolson like that, that would be

445
00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:18,720
a great foundation to have. And so yeah, maybe this

446
00:21:18,839 --> 00:21:21,000
is just like I said, like, maybe this is lessons

447
00:21:21,079 --> 00:21:23,920
learned moving forward for roster construction. And you know, if

448
00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:27,640
you're two for Ky, don't figure it out. These are

449
00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:29,680
lessons to learn. And it's just a bummer that the

450
00:21:29,759 --> 00:21:30,599
interviews happen.

451
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:34,400
Speaker 3: This year, no doubt about it, Jackson. Best way to

452
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:36,039
support you what you do, how you do it for

453
00:21:36,079 --> 00:21:36,839
all of our listeners.

454
00:21:38,599 --> 00:21:42,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, des ret news writing stuff there every day. Jackson

455
00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:44,200
five pain on on Twitter and Instagram. Give me a

456
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:45,920
follow there and always the pleasure to hop on.

457
00:21:46,279 --> 00:21:48,119
Speaker 3: Always a pleasure man. Thanks so much for hopping on.

458
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:51,200
Follow Jackson on Twitter, on the X and read all

459
00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:53,240
the stuff at the Desert Red News. That segment was

460
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471
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educate you today at Dental Prosoutah dot com. Let's take

472
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:30,599
a time out. We'll be back. John Kurtz, Little World

473
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:32,720
of b A, Sports and Big twelve news and notes

474
00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:36,640
coming up next. Open for business for the college football

475
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:40,839
teams you care about, wins, losses and everything in between.

476
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:44,240
We talk it through on one three nine ninety eight

477
00:22:44,279 --> 00:22:49,519
three ESPN The Band.

478
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,000
Speaker 1: What's going on in the world of Cougar athletics here

479
00:22:55,079 --> 00:22:58,920
from players, coaches and experts on all of the latest happenings.

480
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:02,119
Speaker 3: With the provis Welcome back your sports one A three

481
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:04,000
nine nine eighty boys three ESPN The Fan. I've been

482
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QNA with our tax more wealth advisors sort of financial planners.

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Nobody doesn't better than Blaine Anderson and his crew, and

486
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he stopped for a little world the BYU Sports, world

487
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of Big twelve sports as well. We're gonna welcome at

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Let's get out to the hotline wokom. In Big twelve Inchide,

505
00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:16,200
we got John Kurtz, the host, the owner, the operator

506
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:19,000
of the Open for Bigness, Open for Business, Big twelve

507
00:24:19,079 --> 00:24:22,839
podcasts and newsletter. John. How you living? What's up? Man?

508
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:23,400
Speaker 1: I'm doing great?

509
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:23,519
Speaker 3: Man?

510
00:24:23,519 --> 00:24:23,839
Speaker 1: How are you?

511
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:27,200
Speaker 3: I'm doing fantastic? Appreciate you hopping on. What's the state

512
00:24:27,319 --> 00:24:29,319
of the Big twelve right now? What have you been

513
00:24:29,319 --> 00:24:31,960
talking about on your podcast this week?

514
00:24:33,799 --> 00:24:35,599
Speaker 1: Man? Well, it's kind of a bummer in Big twelve

515
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,480
basketball world right now? I feel like you guys know

516
00:24:38,559 --> 00:24:41,519
that full well over in probo what's going on with

517
00:24:41,559 --> 00:24:43,759
all the injuries and really, if you want to lump

518
00:24:43,799 --> 00:24:47,799
in the Darren Pearson saga too, just like injuries slash

519
00:24:47,839 --> 00:24:50,720
load management, everything that's going on with Big twelve stars

520
00:24:50,839 --> 00:24:54,200
right now is really really a bummer, you know. I mean,

521
00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:56,640
I think the Big twelve still has a great shot

522
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:58,480
to win a national championship, and you want to see

523
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,880
the Big twelve form well in the NCAA tournament. But

524
00:25:02,599 --> 00:25:05,039
I mean Texas Tech I think was a legitimate Final

525
00:25:05,039 --> 00:25:07,759
four contender, maybe a national title contender. They've beaten three

526
00:25:07,799 --> 00:25:11,000
top five teams this year, but losing JT. Toppin is

527
00:25:11,039 --> 00:25:15,559
just brutal. I mean, that's that's a backbreaker. He's Evan Miakawa,

528
00:25:15,599 --> 00:25:19,440
who does some analytics, has one of the more popular

529
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,480
basketball analytics sites out there. He dropped Tech from twelfth

530
00:25:22,519 --> 00:25:25,119
to fortieth without j C. Toppin, So I mean you're

531
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:28,279
talking about a monster, monster difference there with a guy

532
00:25:28,279 --> 00:25:30,400
who was like in the running for a National Player

533
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:32,319
of the Year. He's at least like in that conversation,

534
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:34,799
So it's horrible to see him go down with an

535
00:25:34,839 --> 00:25:37,480
ACL Obviously, Richie Saunders also, you know, I mean just

536
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:41,319
ultimate program guy, a four year guy at one school

537
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:43,279
in this day and age, where he's you know, taking

538
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:47,200
himself from a role player into potential All American this

539
00:25:47,279 --> 00:25:50,039
year with the way that he was playing, like just

540
00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:52,279
gut wrenching to see him go down like that and

541
00:25:52,319 --> 00:25:54,279
lose the rest of his season. And obviously, you know

542
00:25:54,319 --> 00:25:56,440
for BYU it team has already been hit really hard

543
00:25:56,440 --> 00:26:00,440
with injuries. You've just taken on so much water as

544
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,519
far as that's concerned throughout the season. So I don't

545
00:26:03,559 --> 00:26:05,880
know exactly what the ceiling is. I mean, AJ's playing

546
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:09,640
awesome thirty points a game over the last five, but

547
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:12,440
he's gonna need some help, and I don't know if

548
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:15,240
there's enough help but enough firepower there for a deep

549
00:26:15,319 --> 00:26:16,880
run this year. But we'll see, you know. I know,

550
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,240
Kevin Young seems seems pretty fired up about that. And

551
00:26:19,279 --> 00:26:22,559
then you throw in like even CoA Pete, I think

552
00:26:22,599 --> 00:26:24,559
he's gonna be okay, but the way things are going

553
00:26:24,599 --> 00:26:26,400
in the Big Twelve right now, he's having to miss

554
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:28,799
a week and so you worry about what the long

555
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,400
term prognosis is there. And then you know Bill self

556
00:26:31,559 --> 00:26:33,720
is now getting a little set up. It seems that

557
00:26:33,759 --> 00:26:36,000
the press conference is with Darren Peterson and not knowing

558
00:26:36,079 --> 00:26:39,119
exactly how to handle what's going on with that. So

559
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:42,119
I just hope that the if it's gonna be Houston

560
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:44,279
or Eye with Day carrying everybody else, or the rest

561
00:26:44,279 --> 00:26:46,640
of the league kind of regrouping and gathering itself for

562
00:26:46,759 --> 00:26:49,279
the NCAA Tournament, I hope things are okay there.

563
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:54,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, pretty devastating news for the Big Twelve, especially as

564
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:58,200
they've been considered the best conference in America alongside the

565
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:00,759
Big Ten. And you don't want to to be like

566
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:03,880
the postseason of the Big Toe. Now, the Big Twelve

567
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:06,599
did okay in the postseason for in football, right, but

568
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:08,119
they kind of fell short a little bit. Wouldn't you

569
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:10,079
say they underachieved a little bit in the postseason.

570
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 1: Well, I think it's just the Texas Tech game overshadows

571
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:17,599
everything right in football, So that's kind of how I

572
00:27:17,599 --> 00:27:20,279
would phrase it. It's like that was such a dud

573
00:27:20,319 --> 00:27:23,119
that it's hard to really regain much else outside of that.

574
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, And so I feel like the Big Twelve may

575
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:28,680
be trending in that same direction. With j C. Toppins

576
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:30,079
and your Richie Saunders injury.

577
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:33,839
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean the good news is, like we saw

578
00:27:33,839 --> 00:27:35,920
the Houston Iowa State game on Monday night, which was

579
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:37,680
one of the best games of the season, one of

580
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:41,319
the best games probably in the country so far this

581
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,960
year between those two, and they seem to be totally

582
00:27:45,079 --> 00:27:46,960
rolling right now. Now. I will say I'm a little

583
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:51,119
cautious with Iowa State because the reputation at Otzolberger has

584
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,519
been like that they do tail off a little bit

585
00:27:53,559 --> 00:27:56,599
in March after having incredible regular seasons or at least

586
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,279
all the way up through like late January, and then

587
00:27:59,319 --> 00:28:01,640
maybe they're not quite as good after that. They seem

588
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:03,960
to be peaking at a much better time this year,

589
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,880
which I think is positive. We just saw Houston almost

590
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,559
win the national championship last year, so I trust that

591
00:28:10,559 --> 00:28:13,200
they'll be ready to go for a deep run. And

592
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:15,680
then Arizona, Yeah, it's just it's like contingent on the

593
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,039
health of co Opete. But they are really deep, you know.

594
00:28:18,079 --> 00:28:20,000
I will say that we're talking about death issues with

595
00:28:20,079 --> 00:28:23,160
like Texas Tech and BYU, Arizona is pretty deep. So

596
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,000
if there is a team that's built to withstand a

597
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,480
little bit of an injury issue, Arizona would have a

598
00:28:27,559 --> 00:28:31,799
better shot there. But yeah, that's my you know, nervous

599
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,720
caution with the situation right now is yeah, hopefully it's

600
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,519
not headed towards something like that, and it's just a

601
00:28:37,559 --> 00:28:39,319
bit of a you know, we're in the dog days, right,

602
00:28:39,359 --> 00:28:41,200
We're in the dog days of the basketball season. You

603
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,720
get into mid to late February, it's a grind, especially

604
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:48,119
in this conference. So hopefully once everybody comes out of

605
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:51,039
playing everybody at the Big twelve, things will look really

606
00:28:51,119 --> 00:28:52,359
nice in the NCAA tournament.

607
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,559
Speaker 3: Wanted to get your thoughts on the Darren Peterson situation.

608
00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:01,799
I was I thought this entire time that Bill Self

609
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:07,039
was in on the load management structure right of Darren Peterson, Like, hey,

610
00:29:07,079 --> 00:29:09,119
he gets to do what he wants, when he wants,

611
00:29:09,319 --> 00:29:11,839
how he wants. He can sub himself out, you know,

612
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,319
he's he may or may not have an injury. He

613
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:16,759
was in on it, right. He got him there to

614
00:29:16,759 --> 00:29:19,640
to to Kansas and was like, look, we just we

615
00:29:20,079 --> 00:29:22,119
just want you here and you can do whatever you want.

616
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:25,160
We just need you here. It seems like Bill self

617
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,000
is no longer. It seems like the last two press

618
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:32,400
conferences post game and then earlier today, he's not in

619
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:34,119
on it, Like he's like, no, we got to get

620
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,119
him to play. We got to figure this out. Give

621
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:38,359
me your thoughts on this situation.

622
00:29:39,359 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean March, you know, I think it's March.

623
00:29:41,799 --> 00:29:44,599
Like March is right around the corner, and they're looking

624
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,440
around like, Okay, this has gone on long enough, Like

625
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,279
we got to the NCAA tournament, Bill Selftones, that's how

626
00:29:50,279 --> 00:29:53,319
he's gonna be judged. Kansas has been disappointing there since

627
00:29:53,359 --> 00:29:56,519
winning the national championship back in the twenty one to

628
00:29:56,559 --> 00:29:59,400
twenty two season, so he knows he's got to get

629
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:01,400
that figured out then right now, It's like, I'm sure

630
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:03,839
they thought they would have a little clearer picture of

631
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:05,759
what this was going to look like by you know,

632
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:09,079
late February, and they don't. So to me, it just

633
00:30:09,359 --> 00:30:12,200
it screams like a coach that's feeling the pressure of that,

634
00:30:12,359 --> 00:30:14,279
and I mean just the frustration and like, look, I

635
00:30:14,319 --> 00:30:16,720
don't blame him, I mean, how could you not be

636
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:20,119
frustrated with how everything's played out with that And another

637
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:22,599
example of it, I mean, probably the most egregious example

638
00:30:22,599 --> 00:30:25,000
we've seen of it was just him hitting a three

639
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,559
and turning around to the bench and immediately wanting to

640
00:30:27,559 --> 00:30:30,319
pull himself out. Just the optics are not good with

641
00:30:30,359 --> 00:30:34,319
that at the moment. So I'm with you that self

642
00:30:34,359 --> 00:30:37,680
probably has had some level of realization throughout this whole

643
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,240
process that like there's an inevitability to like, we're gonna

644
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:41,960
have to deal with some of this. But it sure

645
00:30:42,039 --> 00:30:45,240
makes you think that part of the discussion was like, oh,

646
00:30:45,279 --> 00:30:47,079
you know, we get closer to March or whatever, maybe

647
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:49,799
maybe you can go a little further, we can unlock

648
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,559
this a bit more, and that that obviously is still

649
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:56,839
not happening. So maybe in the NCAA tournament, Peterson and

650
00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:01,079
his team will decide like, look, this is the highest

651
00:31:01,079 --> 00:31:04,279
profile stage we've got. This is why you come to

652
00:31:04,319 --> 00:31:07,160
college to play in these NCAA tournament games. Will totally

653
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,279
cut it loose here. But man, I don't know, because

654
00:31:10,319 --> 00:31:12,880
you've already gotten this to the point where it's such

655
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,079
a big storyline that it's a legitimate talking point for

656
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:16,839
him being the number one pick in the draft or not,

657
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,359
therefore theoretically affecting his future a little bit. They've already

658
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,319
like crossed that bridge. So I don't know that you'd

659
00:31:23,359 --> 00:31:25,119
be like well, we'll let him play all the way

660
00:31:25,119 --> 00:31:27,240
through in the NCAA tournament because it'll save that. Because

661
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:28,759
I don't know if it's going to say that, people

662
00:31:28,799 --> 00:31:31,720
are already questioning it enough. So yeah, I don't have

663
00:31:31,759 --> 00:31:34,160
like a great feel on what's going on there, other

664
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:35,720
than to say, I mean, hey, if it's been like

665
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,720
this for November, December, January, and now February, I'm not

666
00:31:38,759 --> 00:31:40,000
going to be the guy that goes out there and

667
00:31:40,039 --> 00:31:42,519
predicts that it'll be totally different in March when they're

668
00:31:42,559 --> 00:31:45,519
in like a sweet sixteen game, you know, with five

669
00:31:45,559 --> 00:31:48,079
minutes to go in a tie game, I'm not going

670
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:50,240
to be overly confident that Darren Peterson is going to

671
00:31:50,279 --> 00:31:52,920
be out there for him.

672
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:56,960
Speaker 3: Continuing down the line of Big twelve conversation, coach Tang

673
00:31:57,839 --> 00:32:03,079
was let go his job for cause what's the recent

674
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:05,839
updates on that front? Give me your perspective on this

675
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:09,160
as you cover this team on the daily.

676
00:32:10,599 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, here's the thing I think a lot of people,

677
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:16,279
and I understand why, are kind of missing some of

678
00:32:16,279 --> 00:32:19,599
the biggest piece of this story. All Case State has

679
00:32:19,599 --> 00:32:23,880
done publicly is say, insinuate, not even directly say, but

680
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,880
insinuate that the firing four cause was about the press

681
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,599
conference after the Cincinnati game where he said, a bunch

682
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:32,279
of these guys aren't even going to be here. They

683
00:32:32,279 --> 00:32:34,279
don't next year, they don't deserve to wear the uniform

684
00:32:34,319 --> 00:32:37,599
all that. There's more to it than that, Like, it's

685
00:32:37,599 --> 00:32:40,160
not just that this is that's kind of like a

686
00:32:40,279 --> 00:32:43,359
last straw with the long line of things behind the

687
00:32:43,359 --> 00:32:46,759
scenes that I think have been difficult for them to

688
00:32:46,799 --> 00:32:50,240
deal with. I don't think Jerome Tang has been a

689
00:32:50,319 --> 00:32:53,480
really easy guy to deal with behind the scenes. And

690
00:32:53,559 --> 00:32:55,880
I would just put it to you like this, think

691
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:58,000
about it like an iceberg. Right, you see the tip

692
00:32:58,039 --> 00:33:01,799
of the iceberg, but there always massive amounts of ice

693
00:33:01,839 --> 00:33:04,440
actually underneath the water that you're not seeing. But what

694
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,680
we've seen is over the last few years, Jerome Tang

695
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:09,759
got involved in a massive scandal at Iowa State where

696
00:33:09,759 --> 00:33:12,400
he accused d j Olziberger of spying on him in

697
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:14,160
the huddle and did that in the handshake line, and

698
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,039
it became a huge thing and was very embarrassing to

699
00:33:17,079 --> 00:33:21,440
the school. Earlier that season, Nakwon Tomlin got kicked off

700
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,319
the team. There was a bar fight incident. There was

701
00:33:24,359 --> 00:33:26,720
also a title nine incident behind the scenes that didn't

702
00:33:26,759 --> 00:33:29,319
get really publicized at the time. A lot of he said,

703
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,279
she said Tang basically turned the entire fan base and

704
00:33:32,359 --> 00:33:35,039
media against the university president on that one. It was

705
00:33:35,079 --> 00:33:38,319
a huge drama filled thing that drug on for a

706
00:33:38,359 --> 00:33:41,559
long time. You have that there was an assistant coach

707
00:33:41,599 --> 00:33:43,759
that got in a little scuffle with a Kansas assistant

708
00:33:43,799 --> 00:33:47,119
after Case AVTU one year in Bramwa's coliseum. He had

709
00:33:47,119 --> 00:33:49,200
his own dust up with Bill self and a handshake

710
00:33:49,279 --> 00:33:52,039
line at one point. There have been weird absences for

711
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:53,880
players in and out of the lineup each of the

712
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:57,880
last few years. There's just been a lot, a lot

713
00:33:57,920 --> 00:33:59,240
of drama and a lot of things that have been

714
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:01,160
public for everybody to see. So I would just ask

715
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:05,200
you if that's the iceberg that you can see, let's

716
00:34:05,319 --> 00:34:07,119
just take a guess that there might be some other

717
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:10,079
things happening under the water there. Now. I'm not saying

718
00:34:10,079 --> 00:34:14,880
that it's not a little bit intellectually dishonest. Yeah, from

719
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:17,960
case state that I mean, of course, he's being fired

720
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:19,840
because he's not good. And of course if he were

721
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:21,519
eleven to one in the Big twelve instead of one

722
00:34:21,559 --> 00:34:25,039
and eleven, they wouldn't be firing him, But what industry

723
00:34:25,159 --> 00:34:26,960
is that not really the case where a high achiever

724
00:34:27,039 --> 00:34:29,679
gets away with a lot more, and that a pattern

725
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,360
of bad behavior could be something that does get you

726
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,239
fired if you're not performing up to standards. And the

727
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:40,159
language in the contract, there is some pretty solid language

728
00:34:40,199 --> 00:34:43,639
there about conduct that causes embarrassment to the university, the school,

729
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,400
or the coach, and you can go read the specifics

730
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:48,519
of it. I'm no lawyer, but it certainly reads to

731
00:34:48,519 --> 00:34:51,360
me like there's at least a case there. And I

732
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:53,639
don't think Case State's idea with any of this was, oh,

733
00:34:53,679 --> 00:34:55,119
we're going to get out of the whole eighteen point

734
00:34:55,159 --> 00:34:57,360
seven million. They're trying to do the same thing that

735
00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:59,480
Texas Tech did with Mark Adams. They're trying to do

736
00:34:59,519 --> 00:35:02,400
the same thing Saint John's did with Mike Anderson, which

737
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,159
is just settle, just settle, get some of the buyout

738
00:35:05,199 --> 00:35:07,880
knocked off, and that would be my guess as to

739
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,000
what ultimately happens here is that they will save a

740
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,639
little bit of money. They probably didn't anticipate this much

741
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:16,239
blowback to it, which I think they've been hurt by

742
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:18,360
the fact that it happened in season, and it happened

743
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:20,840
at a really slow part of the sports calendar, So

744
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:23,760
you have all these people helicoptering in to give takes

745
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:25,760
on it because there's not much else going on, Like

746
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:29,239
I don't genuinely think Steven A. Smith really cares about

747
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:31,280
k State firing Jerome Tang, But there's not a whole

748
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:34,239
lot going on. So Steven A. Smith is actually talking

749
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:36,400
about it, so you can debate the merits of the

750
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:40,199
pr hit versus you know, what you might actually save

751
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:42,840
and what the settlement's going to look like. But I

752
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,760
don't think I've been I will admit to you I've

753
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:50,679
been a little annoyed at the just everybody helicoptering yes

754
00:35:51,039 --> 00:35:53,320
to drop a bomb on case date like this is

755
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:55,840
the most ridiculous. We've never seen anything like this, We've

756
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:59,199
seen play this. Also, the coaching community has a vested

757
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:02,119
interest in coming out and saying, hey, you can't do this.

758
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:04,760
Pay the guy is money. So you're Steph Greenberg's your

759
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:06,880
fran for shill Is. Of course they're all over that

760
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:09,880
because they don't want the precedent set of this becoming

761
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:11,920
a more regular thing where guys are going to lose

762
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:13,880
some of their buyout money on a regular basis. So

763
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:18,559
all of it's just it's annoyed me a bit, but

764
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:22,199
I fully recognize it's not like the most in good

765
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:24,320
faith in the world thing that Case State is doing here.

766
00:36:25,159 --> 00:36:27,960
Speaker 3: Well, what's interesting is didn't Drum Tang say the kind

767
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,280
of the quiet part out loud with like how he

768
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:37,119
would how coaches maybe possibly set themselves up to get

769
00:36:37,119 --> 00:36:41,760
fired for cause. But then he said he would maybe

770
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:46,320
go on like a mission trip and set up I

771
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:51,119
don't know. I think he said something about maybe schools

772
00:36:51,199 --> 00:36:53,960
and orphanages and things of that nature. I can't remember

773
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,079
which podcast I saw it on. It you may have

774
00:36:56,119 --> 00:36:58,559
more insight there, had you heard of anything like that.

775
00:36:58,599 --> 00:37:01,239
He went on record in the off season about this.

776
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:04,880
Speaker 1: Well, I'm trying to so I believe the Clipper referencing

777
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:07,239
is held. He would do a segment the case they

778
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:09,400
would produce that was called like hang Him with Tang,

779
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:11,440
where he would go sit on a couch with students,

780
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:13,920
yes at Case State, and they would ask him questions.

781
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:15,800
And I can't remember the full context of it, but

782
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:19,199
he kind of cracked a joke like, well, hey, i'd

783
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:22,079
be cool just taking my taking my buyout money or

784
00:37:22,119 --> 00:37:24,360
whatever and going off to an island or something like that.

785
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:28,079
So in jest, he did make a comment like that

786
00:37:28,159 --> 00:37:30,920
at one point in time, I have no idea. Look again,

787
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:32,599
like I'm not a lawyer. I have no idea how

788
00:37:32,679 --> 00:37:35,280
much that can help him or hurt him. I will

789
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:37,840
tell you. The Athletic did a really good article and

790
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:40,159
they didn't even analyze everything I said about, like, hey,

791
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:42,199
I think there's other stuff going on here too that'll

792
00:37:42,199 --> 00:37:44,400
be a part of case state's case. They just took

793
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:46,199
it at face value and like, okay, what about the

794
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:49,480
embarrassment piece. Match it with the press conference? How does

795
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:52,000
this work? And a couple of the lawyers they talked

796
00:37:52,039 --> 00:37:55,440
to said, actually, the kind of smoking gun, if you will,

797
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:57,280
in that. The thing that Tang said that really hurt

798
00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:00,280
him is when he said most of these guys aren't

799
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:02,599
even going to be here next year. Because they said,

800
00:38:02,639 --> 00:38:04,719
now you're making the case like okay, so you're already

801
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:07,920
kicking guys off the team midseason, or you're talking about

802
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:10,880
contract negotiations with these guys already that we might want

803
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:13,400
to have a state. You should go read the articles

804
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:15,360
by David Ubben at The Athletic. It was pretty good.

805
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:16,920
But they seem to think that that would be the

806
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:20,440
most problematic part for Tang. So he's said some things. Now, Look,

807
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:22,800
I think Jane Taylor, Case States Athletic Director has also

808
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:25,239
done some things that are a little detrimental. He did

809
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:27,920
an interview with the Manhattan Mercury, one of the local papers,

810
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:32,639
where I just can't imagine why the university council let

811
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:35,360
him do that. But so I think both sides have

812
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:38,840
probably hurt themselves a little bit with some public comments.

813
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:40,599
And I don't think either side wants it to go

814
00:38:40,639 --> 00:38:43,559
to discovery at all. So I think that's why you're

815
00:38:43,599 --> 00:38:46,239
probably to see this thing settle at some point.

816
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:49,280
Speaker 3: Love to break down. John Kertz here on es me

817
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:51,880
and the fan. John, you've also you did a little

818
00:38:52,079 --> 00:38:55,960
peace on Provo and BYU and road trips. I know

819
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:59,599
your name could be had for good and evil. When

820
00:38:59,599 --> 00:39:03,199
you talk positively about a trip to Provo, give a

821
00:39:03,199 --> 00:39:06,920
little give a little breakdown of what what you discussed

822
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:09,840
and maybe the repercussions of such.

823
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:12,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny. It's funny you bring that up.

824
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 3: Man.

825
00:39:13,519 --> 00:39:16,639
Speaker 1: So I will just say, I mean, so I've been

826
00:39:16,679 --> 00:39:18,599
three times now, I went to the KSE a game

827
00:39:18,599 --> 00:39:20,960
in twenty four. I went to the Utah football game

828
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:24,119
this past year and then explore Utah. Vlley did bring

829
00:39:24,159 --> 00:39:26,679
me out for a trip to go watch the Houston

830
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:30,159
basketball game. Now I bring that up to say, like, yeah,

831
00:39:30,199 --> 00:39:32,440
I'm I'm getting killed by some folks, you know. Oh,

832
00:39:32,519 --> 00:39:34,599
like obviously you're gonna say good things about it if

833
00:39:34,599 --> 00:39:37,320
someone's bringing you out there. I say that to say

834
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:40,280
I've done it twice on my own and one time, yeah,

835
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:42,360
I was covering case D. I came back again just

836
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:44,519
out of my own pot, both times, out of my

837
00:39:44,519 --> 00:39:46,800
own pocket, just to go do it. And I am

838
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,280
being genuine when I say that in my fifteen years

839
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:51,320
of like making road trips as someone who I mean,

840
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:55,639
I love the mountains, I love the outdoors, I love hiking,

841
00:39:55,679 --> 00:39:58,920
Like I really do like that vibe. So maybe Provo

842
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:01,719
appeals to me a little bit more than another guy

843
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:04,719
or another college football fan who maybe they're more into like, Hey,

844
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:06,079
I want somewhere there where I can just go to

845
00:40:06,119 --> 00:40:09,519
a massive party. That's not really my vibe, but it's

846
00:40:09,599 --> 00:40:12,920
legitimately my favorite trip that I have taken in doing

847
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:14,840
all this, and that is genuine and That's why I've

848
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,000
done it twice on my own without even you know,

849
00:40:17,039 --> 00:40:20,199
anybody sending me out there. So it's a little frustrating,

850
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:21,760
But like I knew there would be some of that.

851
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:23,159
I knew I would get some of that, you know,

852
00:40:23,199 --> 00:40:26,440
what to expect. I think it's a cool thing. I

853
00:40:26,519 --> 00:40:27,880
like coming out there. If you want me to come

854
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:29,920
out there and talk about the good things happening in Provo,

855
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:32,360
I will definitely do it. And you know, I also

856
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:35,679
I do get a little frustrated with people that haven't

857
00:40:35,679 --> 00:40:39,079
been there talking about the typical stereotypes that you hear,

858
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:42,239
because I'm like, look, man, I've I've been out enough

859
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:45,599
and just through what I'm doing with my platform, have

860
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:48,320
met enough YU fans, some of whom have become really

861
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:52,519
close friends of mine that I just really like, I've

862
00:40:52,559 --> 00:40:54,599
been treated so well. I really like the people and

863
00:40:54,679 --> 00:40:57,800
are just really nice, average people like I Just so

864
00:40:59,039 --> 00:41:01,639
I did want to try try and put my spin on,

865
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:05,000
just trying to show like, hey, it's just it's like

866
00:41:05,079 --> 00:41:07,679
any place that you would go, just with some beautiful

867
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:11,679
mountains and an unbelievable athletics program right now, and some

868
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:13,719
really good food and you know, plenty of things to

869
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:16,360
do outdoors, as I trying to orchestrate or illustrate rather

870
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:19,559
in the video. But I knew, I knew there would

871
00:41:19,559 --> 00:41:21,519
be some pushback to it. There's always going to be that.

872
00:41:21,639 --> 00:41:24,119
I just if it can get the message out there

873
00:41:24,159 --> 00:41:27,159
positively to some people. I hope that some people are

874
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:30,880
legitimately listening, and I have enough credibility in their eyes

875
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:33,000
for them to listen to that. And you know, we'll

876
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:35,679
deal with the haters who cares.

877
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:40,159
Speaker 3: You know, always there's always love and hate wherever you go,

878
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:42,039
my friend, as soon as you a pine, as soon

879
00:41:42,079 --> 00:41:45,760
as you open your mouth, all will will flow positively

880
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:49,400
or negatively. That is the case, my friend. How many

881
00:41:49,519 --> 00:41:52,920
sell out comments did you get from that post? How

882
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:54,519
many sellout posts?

883
00:41:55,119 --> 00:41:58,679
Speaker 1: Oh? I mean, like there was one one for sure

884
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:01,400
on Twitter that I'm thinking of, And I haven't checked

885
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:03,519
the YouTube comments in a minute. I had one or two.

886
00:42:04,039 --> 00:42:06,880
It wasn't like terrible, terrible. But the people that come in,

887
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:09,079
you know, come in real strong. They're trying to really

888
00:42:09,199 --> 00:42:12,280
rech so you know, it is what it is. I

889
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:14,920
have look, every time something like that happens, I have

890
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:17,159
to think and like stop and remind myself, like Hey,

891
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:20,599
especially in my younger years, like I've been that guy

892
00:42:20,639 --> 00:42:22,880
on the other side of it too, so I can't

893
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:24,840
you know, some of it's some of it's just going

894
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:26,440
to come back around. And that's why I try to

895
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:29,880
do very very little event these days and just do

896
00:42:30,039 --> 00:42:32,960
my things, stay in my own lane. So you are,

897
00:42:33,079 --> 00:42:34,360
as you get older in life.

898
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:37,760
Speaker 3: You know, do great work. Man. Always appreciate anything else

899
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:39,400
that's been keeping you up at night that you've been

900
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:41,920
talking about on your podcast. We invite everyone to follow

901
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:45,000
you and subscribe to your podcast.

902
00:42:46,559 --> 00:42:49,280
Speaker 1: Man. The only other story that was kind of interesting

903
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:51,840
to me recently was Texas ducking out on that Arizona

904
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:54,760
State series, which it's in football. It's not until the

905
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:57,480
twenty thirties, was like thirty one and thirty two, so

906
00:42:57,559 --> 00:42:59,519
who knows what the heck college football is going to

907
00:42:59,559 --> 00:43:02,719
look like at that point anyway, But Texas is doing

908
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:04,800
it because the SEC is going to a nine game schedule,

909
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:09,159
nine game conference schedule, which to me signaled a little

910
00:43:09,159 --> 00:43:12,000
bit of like okay, like Big twelve teams aren't going

911
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:13,960
to need to understand this reality, Like it's going to

912
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:17,280
be harder to schedule SEC teams because they don't want

913
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:20,159
to schedule a loss, and Texas is keeping Ohio State

914
00:43:20,159 --> 00:43:22,159
and Notre Dame on the schedule. I'm sure thinking, well,

915
00:43:22,199 --> 00:43:25,000
if we do lose to them, that won't be really

916
00:43:25,039 --> 00:43:28,000
a reputational hit. We could definitely lose to Arizona State,

917
00:43:28,039 --> 00:43:30,760
as we learned in the College Football Playoff, and then

918
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:33,199
we probably wouldn't really get as much benefit of the

919
00:43:33,199 --> 00:43:34,880
doubt because that's a big twelve team. So I think

920
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:38,440
it's going to get harder to schedule SEC teams, maybe

921
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:40,920
just big brands in general, which puts extra emphasis on

922
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:45,800
games like Notre Dame BYU and like Oklahoma State Oregon,

923
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:48,360
which people aren't talking about as much. And look, it's

924
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:50,679
probably a long shot, but you definitely want to have

925
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:53,000
a better showing than Oklahoma State did last year. You

926
00:43:53,119 --> 00:43:55,760
just got to take advantage of these opportunities when you

927
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:58,360
can get them. And kudos to Arizona State because they've

928
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:00,719
got Texas A and M this year and next, and

929
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:02,760
then they have a series with LSU on the books too,

930
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:05,400
so they're not shy about going out there and trying

931
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:07,880
to get series like that. And Texas Tech, I'm sure

932
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:10,760
they're trying. I don't know exactly how hard they are

933
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:12,960
trying right now, but with their non con schedule and

934
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:15,599
taking a bit of a beating over that this year. Tech,

935
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:17,199
especially if they want to be the big boys of

936
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:18,920
the conference, they should probably be trying to go get

937
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:21,239
some of those games too, but might be a little

938
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:23,559
bit more difficult after what we saw Texas do there

939
00:44:23,559 --> 00:44:24,119
to back out.

940
00:44:25,079 --> 00:44:28,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I've had this discussion with you. The

941
00:44:28,639 --> 00:44:34,079
SEC does not want any sort of cross conference data

942
00:44:34,119 --> 00:44:37,079
points to work against them. That's the last thing they want.

943
00:44:37,079 --> 00:44:38,960
They want the equity that's been built over the last

944
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:42,079
twenty five thirty years to continue into the modern era

945
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:45,639
because when they go head to head against other power conferences,

946
00:44:45,639 --> 00:44:48,000
we see what happens. They're maybe okay with the Big

947
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:50,440
ten because you know the Big ten is on an

948
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:52,800
equivalent sphere. They don't want the SEC. They don't want

949
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:55,599
the Big twelve. They don't want any G six programs

950
00:44:55,599 --> 00:44:59,800
that prominence because they may lose those games and undermine

951
00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:03,760
the their equity that they've built for twenty five thirty years,

952
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:10,119
that was built off of bagmen and rural from rural

953
00:45:11,519 --> 00:45:13,920
car dealerships. That's that's what it was built off. The

954
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:18,559
SEC was built off of bagmen and rural car dealership deals.

955
00:45:18,639 --> 00:45:21,920
Speaker 1: That's it. That's it's such an astute point, I mean

956
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:24,960
because and like it's hard to blame them, like they

957
00:45:25,519 --> 00:45:28,840
have got the system so set up for them, right,

958
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:31,280
Like everything works for them based on what's happened in

959
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:35,639
the last two decades. That's probably what anybody would try

960
00:45:35,639 --> 00:45:37,480
and do, right, Like just and you saw it with

961
00:45:37,519 --> 00:45:39,760
how they fought the college Football Playoff in the off season,

962
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:42,800
that they need more at large bids because basically, we're

963
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:44,800
the SEC, and here are these data points you should

964
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:46,719
look at because we're the toughest conference and we play

965
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:48,679
each other all the time. So yeah, they just want

966
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:50,039
to keep it in house. And it even got to

967
00:45:50,039 --> 00:45:52,920
the point where one of the latest Ross Dellinger stories

968
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:55,239
was about how with all the issues and enforcement of

969
00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:57,840
NIL and the deals above the cap, I mean, the

970
00:45:57,880 --> 00:45:59,760
talk out of the SEC now was, well, maybe we'll

971
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:02,280
just play a twelve game schedule against each other because

972
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:05,280
then we can dictate all the rules. They're competing against

973
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:08,039
ourselves and like, of course, you guys will accept our

974
00:46:08,159 --> 00:46:10,760
champion as the best or what because we're the SEC

975
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:12,880
and we built up this reputation like they're willing to

976
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:16,159
even go nuclear option basically on it and just say

977
00:46:16,159 --> 00:46:18,480
forget everybody else, We're only going to play each other.

978
00:46:19,159 --> 00:46:21,760
I mean, that's that's how much they think along those

979
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:23,920
lines right now. So I think it's it's a verius

980
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:25,119
due point that you bring.

981
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:27,800
Speaker 3: Up there, John Kurtz. We should let you appreciate you,

982
00:46:28,119 --> 00:46:31,159
and we invite everyone to follow you and subscribe to

983
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:34,840
check out whose podcast Open for Business, Big twelve Insider

984
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:39,119
podcast and YouTube YouTube show. Appreciate you, John, thanks for

985
00:46:39,119 --> 00:46:39,800
hopping on today.

986
00:46:40,519 --> 00:46:42,440
Speaker 1: Hey, take care ben any all right?

987
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:45,159
Speaker 3: Appreciate you, John Kurtz, Ladies and gentlemen. Great segment with

988
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:48,519
John and Big Google, wrote him, as we wrap up

989
00:46:48,559 --> 00:46:50,519
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