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out to the hot light. Welcome in action. Jackson Pain,
beat writer for the desertt News. What's up, Jackson?
Speaker 1: Then?
Speaker 2: How we doing?
Speaker 1: It's gonna be on living.
Speaker 3: The dream man, just talking ball, talking basketball, talking football.
It's it's a great day. It's a beautiful day. We
got plenty of moisture. We've been praying, we've been fast,
and we've got the moisture. And we got some ball
to talk about as well. Let's start off with some basketball,
shall we. Where are you at with these basketball team?
Jackson Pain? What's the ceiling and floor of this Cougar,
Cajor squad man.
Speaker 2: It's all how times have changed, right, Just the expectations
were so lofty and Yu was playing some great basketball
just a few weeks ago, and you know, they hit
a rough patch. Richie Saunders is out and I don't
want to say this guy is falling, but things definitely
feel a bit less bright than they once did. You know,
the ceiling of this team. It's tough to say, because
when you have Aja Debonsa in a must win game,
anything can happen. You know, He's just he's always going
to be the best player on the floor, no matter
who b WHYU is playing, and so By is always
gonna have a chance in that regard. But at the
same time, like, I don't think this is a Final
four team right now. The Elite eight even seems way
too far away. It's just I think if they make
the Sweet sixteen in their current form, I think that's
a huge success. And so yeah, Sweet sixteen feels like
the current ceiling. Obviously, things can change if if they
can get some help to maybe step up from the
bench in the absence of Richie Saunders, but Sweet sixteen
feels like the ceiling right now. I think, you know,
it's hard to think that they they'll lose in the
first round. All of their losses this year are really
quality losses, aside from probably the Oklahoma State. I know
that's still a Quad one loss, but b why you
should not have lost that game?
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: So I don't think if they're six seed or a
seven seed, I don't think they're going to lose to
a ten or eleven. So I think the floor is
a round of thirty two. Ceiling is probably Sweet sixteen.
But maybe a week from now, maybe they knock off
Iowa State and we feel a bit different. Maybe Tyler
Maruss or Alexei Kostich or Heilo Boskovich or somebody steps
up and turns into a flame thrower down the stretch
and gives you why you another scoring threat. But yeah,
if I were to answer right now, it feels like
Sweet sixteen is the ceiling, thirty two is the floor.
Speaker 3: It's fun. I was chatting with JT about like two philosophies,
two ways to approach you know, this BAU basketball team,
and he said, look, one thing you can do is
you can go all offensive, right, you know, start Tyler
Maruss and get as many minutes at election costick, give
them green lights, Hilo Boskovic and just get buckets as
many bucks as you can. Try to instill confidence in
those guys. You may have a dearth of you may
have some issues defensively. You already have issues defensively. He said,
that's one round. Or you can insert hidem Boop a
little bit more, give him more minutes, expand his role. Yeah,
he's not an offensive threat, but he rebounds and he
plays great defense, and he has great intensity while he's
on the floor, which will provide the best fruits, the
best return on investment. In your opinion, which way do
you lean going? Maybe more defensive minded, more rebounding minded,
and like just let you know your your your your
key offensive players AJ and Rob Wright do do their
work offensively in Canard. I think Cannard could take a
big step forward too. He's gonna have to play forty
minutes a game in order for Melia to win. Where
do you lean?
Speaker 2: I lean whichever way? Gets Adean Boop four minutes and
touched on it earlier. I'm a I'm a boot believer.
I broke down you know. I was in Tucson earlier
this week for the loss. B you what, you trotted
out seventeen unique lineups in the game. I mean they
were really just throwing everything at the wall. And the
lineup that stuck the longest they played nine minutes together
and had the most success was the starting five with
with Boop in instead of Boskovic, so it was rob
aj Kba Canard and then Boop. They were plus eleven
and nine minutes. They were the ones who had that
great stretch down the end that almost you know, got
Blu back into the game when they cut the lead
to five. Boop is just you know, he's he's like
a solar battery. He gets he makes things happen. Is hustle,
the non box score stuff that Richie was so great at,
the defense, the rebounding, getting transition stuff on offense. You
know you saw it at Arizona where you got the
steal and then got the bucket from it. I'm just
I just think he's a winning player and good things
happen when he's on the floor. I understand why Boskovic started.
It made sense just giving the matchup with Arizona size
and maybe trying to get something going from the perimeter early.
You know, he took those two early threes that I
wish maybe Rob had taken. I thought it was strange
that it took Rob twelve minutes to attempt to three.
Just you feel like if Aj is going to run
the offense, you would think Rob would play being playing
off the ball more would be spotting up for threes.
But that's a whole other discussion. But that's the thing.
Like I just when when Bosvitch took those two threes,
I was like, you know, maybe Boom should be in
set the tone defensively early, be trying to compete on
the glass, give Rob an Aj and Canard more of
those valuable touches from the outside, and then rely on
them for the shot making and then have Kaba and
even playing around the rim. So I'm all about Boop.
I think that he's I don't think they've unlocked a
death lineup because Byu, like like you said earlier, they
have defensive issues. It's just it's gonna be tough for
them to put anyone away down the stretch. But I
really think putting Boop in that starting five and giving
him more run going forward is By's best chance forward
at success.
Speaker 3: What's your theory on why b YU basketball has had
so many season ending injuries this year. I don't know,
just you know, as that question Jackson. Have we asked
that question to Ky, you know, being like I'm never
on the zooms, I'm never in front of them, you know,
So I don't know if it's been asked. I don't
know if it's been answered.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I haven't heard that question. I mean, I think
it's just one of those fluky things, right, Like you
know some teams, like it feels like I always bring
up the Commanders when I'm on your show, but I'm
gonna do it again. Jade and Daniel's rookie season, they
had like the best injury luck in the NFL. Last
year they had the worst injury luck. I think just
sometimes it comes in waves and sometimes it doesn't. You know,
It's just it's a weird thing. I think it's interesting
that the two return missionaries on the team and the
rotation in Dawson Baker and Richie Saunders both to ACLS.
I don't think missions have anything to do with that.
It's just, you know, your oldest two players toward their
ACL Like on paper, that probably does seem suspicious, but
at the same time, you know, having witnessed both injuries live,
I just they were both kind of fluky things, non contact.
It's just, you know, why are so many's tearing in
the in the NBA right now? You know why are
so many baseball pitchers having Tommy John Like, it's just injuries.
Just it's just a part of the game, right Like,
it's it's unfortunate that it's come to BYU because we'll
never get to see what this BYU team was at
full strength, it feels like and that that's a real shame.
And I think, you know, if if you're looking for
a silver lining, you can it's kind of it's it's
just a great what if with BYU basketball, right Like,
what if Brandon Davies doesn't get suspended? What if BYU
beats UCLA in that first round in twenty one? What
if the COVID Tournament doesn't get canceled? Uh?
Speaker 1: What if you know, what.
Speaker 2: If Alabama doesn't shoot the greatest three point shooting night
in the history of college basketball last year?
Speaker 3: What if?
Speaker 2: What if this team didn't have injuries?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 2: Uh, So, you know, it's just it's it's a it's
a disappointment, but I don't think there's a nuclear facility
next to the Merritt Center, the way there is with
the Niners facility in San Francisco. But it's it's just
a bummer, man. I don't think there's any one specific reason.
It's just it's just fluky, fluky, weird sadness.
Speaker 3: Yes, it is. It is fluky, It is weirdness. It
is sadness. Uh and uh, I'm here for all the
conspiracy theories. Anyone want to bring them to my uh,
to my attention, DM me at crital Benjamin Jackson. This uh,
this BA basketball team has to find a way to
win uh this uh towards the end of the season
and into the Big Twell tournament in the NCAA tournament.
Is there a certain level of like, how do you
think Cougar Nation's feeling about it right now? Like, uh,
how the donors are feeling about it right now? Did
they get their return on investment this season? Right are they?
Do you feel like it will deter these corporate sponsors,
these these big time donors from extending their hand out
uh with their their dollar dollar bills, y'all to Cougar Athletics,
Cougar basketball in particular, Do they feel like they got
what they were looking for with the allocation of resources
this year.
Speaker 2: I don't know how they're feeling, but I don't think
they should feel bad or regret any of the money spent,
because the money spent went a long way. Like AJ
is the best player in college basketball. He should be
the number one pick because they'll actually play basketball. And
like Darren Peterson, you know, it's a point in television
for everyone across the country when AJ plays, because he's
gonna score thirty five every night. Rob Wright has been fantastic.
Richie Saunders was fantastic until he got hurt. And I
think too like I think too often we collectively expect
immediate everything understanding. Just we expect immediate greatness from Kevin Young.
And you know, he took you all here to the Fund,
he took you out to the Sweet sixteen last year.
He's had some great recruiting success, but he's he's been
in the NBA for a while, Like this is year
two running a college program for him, Like we got
to give him a little bit of a learning curve,
Like he's gonna have some swings and misses in the
recruiting scene. You know, there's gonna be things that he
gets wrong, and that's fine, Like this is just if
you want to build a really strong program, you have
to go through growing pains. And I think they made
the Sweet sixteen last year and that was great, and
there were Final four aspirations this year, but it's really
hard to win in the tournament. Like there's a reason
why bu BYUS had two extremely long stretches without tournament wins.
I think from ninety it was either ninety two or
ninety three to twenty ten they went winless, and then
from twenty eleven to or twenty twelve to twenty twenty five,
Like that's two really long stretches without getting a single
tournament win. It is really hard to win in March.
And so I think you know, BYU, if they get
to the Sweet seat teen again, that's two Sweet sixteens
in two years. That's doubling BYU Sweet sixteen appearances in
the modern era. Like that's a great start to build
a great program. And so the injuries with this team
have been really unfortunate. It's something that I don't think
you can prevent. That's just the way it goes. Like
your injuries are gonna happen, and BYU right now doesn't
have the depth to compete. And you know they were built,
they were deep going into the season, But when Pickens
goes down and Baker goes down, and Richie goes down,
and you don't really get to see Kazlowski all this year,
and some of the other pieces aren't clicking so far,
Like that's just that's just how many sometimes like you're
not gonna make You're not gonna make all your shots.
And so I think, you know, BUYU can still salvage
the season and still go out on a high note
with a sweet sixteen or even further. But at the
same time, like we just it was never gonna be
a two year program juggernaut six right, Like if it
happened this year, great, But at the same time, it
was gonna take time to build what BYU really wants
to accomplish with Kevin Yong. And so I don't think
this should dissuade any donors or any pockets from being
opened for BYU in the future, because Kevin Young's proven
he can bring top talent to provo. Guys like AJ,
guys like Rob Wright, guys like Yegor I've done incredible things.
And look at Yegor right now, I mean walking into
the arena with a Book of Mormon talking about how
much he loved BYU and just such a great ambassador
for BYU. And you got someone like Aja taking mission
prep and Book of Mormon and talking to the broadcasters,
but how much he loves a Book of Mormon class
and he'll go forth to serve when he he's finished at BYU,
and he'll be an ambassador for the school. And so
it goes beyond dollars and cents and wins and losses,
the just the idea that these these these players who
have such a great influence worldwide, Yegor and Russia. Aj,
if he becomes the next big thing in the NBA,
these guys can can go and be ambassadors for BYU.
Like you can't put a dollar amount on that. And
so I mean, look, it's the I've gone on for
a while, but it's a bummer that BYU's injuries have
kind of derailed what should have been a Final four
team on paper. But at the same time, just the
talent that they brought in, Like it's not on ky,
It's not like no one should be dissuaded to spend
money and going forward.
Speaker 3: Can by fans uh critique and criticize maybe the roster construction.
Do you think it was it too top heavy in
your opinion? Or did by you just have bad luck
with season ending injuries. You look at guys like a Gallon, Hall, Tanner, Toolson,
Jake Wallen, your traditional like BYU. Remember they were all
at b YU at one point in their careers or
they were committed to BYU at one point in their careers.
And you can't always just hoard all the LDS talent,
right A. Colin Chandler's at Kentucky's doing nice things with
coach Mark Pope, et cetera. But you wonder it's like, Okay,
well how you allocating resources? Did we did? Did b
what you go too top heavy? Or or did they
did they? Did they roster construct the right way? Is
what I'm getting at here? Can you critique that?
Speaker 2: I mean, maybe they could have used another guard before
the season, But at the same time, Nate picking the
man like that's that was supposed to be your seventh man,
Dawson Baker supposed to be your sixth man. B YU
last year had some pretty good injury luck aside from
Jago or missing a stretch and kind of being off
for a little bit of the season. But it's just,
I mean, you can always expect maybe one or two
season ending injuries, but four is just an absurd amount, right,
Like you lose your your your veteran leader and your
your first team all big twelve talent. You lose your
sixth man who's another great veterans shot maker, you miss
a three and D guy off the bench, and like,
I don't know, man, it's just maybe Maruss and co
Stitch are maybe maybe that's maybe maybe those there was
better money to be spent elsewhere. But at the same time,
you know they could also go in a heater and
totally totally redeem themselves, right, I think too, Like you know,
at this, like I said, last year when the season ended,
obviously the cannon catchings thing, he was a super highly
sauttered recruit. He came in, he had moments, but by
the end of the year the shine was off and
he was kind of disengaged. Just it was pretty clear
he was going to move on, and when mag and
Stewart kind of stepped in his place. BYU season turned around,
and you know, it didn't work out for catchings at BUYU,
And I think my my perspective at that point was,
you know, that's a that was a learning experience for Ky, right,
like he had to he had to have a miss
of that degree recruiting in order to better figure out
his recruiting going forward. You know, Like I think I
thought that could be a positive experience for him. Maybe
I'm too optimistic, but I just thought, you know, he's
recruiting at the college level for the first time. Maybe
there were things that he overlooked with cannon catchings that
he can correct going forward.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: And so I think maybe this year, with the way
that they constructed the roster and the way that injuries
took over, maybe he goes, Okay, maybe we do need
a change of pace back to the basket type big
every year. We can't just go with two rib rollers
in Kaba and Ahmed. Maybe we need more guards because
guard play wins in March, and if you lose your
two best guards off the bench, that spells disaster. Right Like,
so I just think, yeah, maybe there are roster critiques
to be made. Injuries happened and BYU so far hasn't
been able to respond to the injuries. But at the
same time, like, I'm not trying to carry Kevin Young's water,
but at the same time, like these are learning experiences,
and I think if you want him to be the
long term solution and stick around approval for a while,
he got to give him some space to learn these
things and figure it out for himself, because the college
game is so different from the NBA game, and also
just the landscape of college supports is changing so rapidly
and so drastically. I mean just the fact I sound
like an old man right now, but like just the
fact that we're getting these running it back graphics from
from true freshman. It's like, yeah, you should be running
it back right, Like It's just it's such a bizarre
world and having to learn that on the fly is
pretty pretty challenging, I imagine. And so I think these
are lessons to be learned going forward for Kevin Young,
and I think he'll be all the better for it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you just wonder if, like I know, they had
like Tanner Twison come take a visit, right, and maybe
the role that they were pitching wasn't as robust the
minutes allocations, et cetera, that he was probably looking for.
I want to say, I want to say, Tanner Toolson
is getting maybe twenty minutes a game for TCU, if
I'm not mistaken, I think, you know, maybe he wouldn't
get twenty minutes a game, right he you know, I
think it's eighteen point just under twenty minutes, eighteen point six.
Dallan hall has although he's been a starter, but I
don't think he's necessarily been a star for the the
Who's right he has he's averaging twenty five point I
want to say, no, yeah, twenty five twenty eight minutes,
twenty eight minutes, almost thirty minutes a game. So I
mean he's getting minutes, that's for certain there for the
for the Cattalis, the who's rising out there for four
hundred ninety seven pounder out of the great state of
you tough one review a you Cougar. But you just wonder,
it's like, hey, did did we miss the mark on
our retention and our acquisitions? Did these guys, you know, Tanner, Dallen,
Jake Quaaleen, were they you know, was there a strong
pitch made to them to stay at BYU, to be
at BYU or did they like they're like, you know what,
it's just not going to work out and they just
had to part their separate ways. Any thoughts there about
some of the players that went elsewhere, transferred elsewhere and
the impact that they could have made on this team.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think about Dollen Hall a lot. I was
a big Dallen Hall fan. I just I thought he
was a really great just kind of facilitator and he
could shoot the ball a little, and I just it's
a bummer that he left because I thought maybe that
core going into Like I remember after the Sweet sixteen thinking, okay,
by you had a great core of Richie Saunders, Kavacida,
Dollen Hall, Dawson Baker, and then you add aj to
Bonson whoever else did they get in the portal, Like
that's a really good team next year, And when Dallen leaves,
it's like, Okay, well that's kind of a bummer. But
then you get Rob Right and it's like, okay, maybe
they upgrade, they have a more explosive option to the
point guard. But you know, Dollan his kind the kind
of change of pace he brought last year when when
he would come in off the bench with foos and
they would they would do they would kind of slow
the game down and go down low, and it was
just it was really refreshing and it put it gave
Bay you another a layer, another wrinkle that was really
helpful for them. I think Dallen Hall and this team
right now would be a really important player. I remember
a buddy of mine does radio in Virginia and he
interviewed Dallen and was just saying he knew He's like,
it's my senior year, I want to pick my own coach.
And that was kind of the rationale. And you know,
obviously Odom recruited him out of high school at Utah
State and then he goes to UVA and he needs
a veteran point guard to kind of jump start that program.
And it just it made sense, right, Like it made
sense for Yu to move on. It made sense for
down Hall to leave. But at the same time, it's
a bummer for him because it's a bummer for Yu
because another guard would really help this team right now.
But at the same time, I just think too, like
you know, maybe by you have to strike this right
balance between kind of your four year program, foundation players,
the LDS talent, the other guys who can come in
here and be kind of the way that Gonzaga does it,
where like they'll have Drew Timmy for four or five years,
but then they'll have a Chet Holmgren on one and done.
Like you have your one and done, your NBA type
guys who come and go, but you have your kind
of solid foundation of a four year LDS or local talent,
the Trevin Nell, the Richie Saunders, anybody else. It doesn't
have to be LDS kids too, but like you know,
you would think like, oh, a team with Dallen Hall
or Jake Qualeen Oranna Toolson like that, that would be
a great foundation to have. And so yeah, maybe this
is just like I said, like, maybe this is lessons
learned moving forward for roster construction. And you know, if
you're two for Ky, don't figure it out. These are
lessons to learn. And it's just a bummer that the
interviews happen.
Speaker 3: This year, no doubt about it, Jackson. Best way to
support you what you do, how you do it for
all of our listeners.
Speaker 2: Yeah, des ret news writing stuff there every day. Jackson
five pain on on Twitter and Instagram. Give me a
follow there and always the pleasure to hop on.
Speaker 3: Always a pleasure man. Thanks so much for hopping on.
Follow Jackson on Twitter, on the X and read all
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Let's get out to the hotline wokom. In Big twelve Inchide,
we got John Kurtz, the host, the owner, the operator
of the Open for Bigness, Open for Business, Big twelve
podcasts and newsletter. John. How you living? What's up? Man?
Speaker 1: I'm doing great?
Speaker 3: Man?
Speaker 1: How are you?
Speaker 3: I'm doing fantastic? Appreciate you hopping on. What's the state
of the Big twelve right now? What have you been
talking about on your podcast this week?
Speaker 1: Man? Well, it's kind of a bummer in Big twelve
basketball world right now? I feel like you guys know
that full well over in probo what's going on with
all the injuries and really, if you want to lump
in the Darren Pearson saga too, just like injuries slash
load management, everything that's going on with Big twelve stars
right now is really really a bummer, you know. I mean,
I think the Big twelve still has a great shot
to win a national championship, and you want to see
the Big twelve form well in the NCAA tournament. But
I mean Texas Tech I think was a legitimate Final
four contender, maybe a national title contender. They've beaten three
top five teams this year, but losing JT. Toppin is
just brutal. I mean, that's that's a backbreaker. He's Evan Miakawa,
who does some analytics, has one of the more popular
basketball analytics sites out there. He dropped Tech from twelfth
to fortieth without j C. Toppin, So I mean you're
talking about a monster, monster difference there with a guy
who was like in the running for a National Player
of the Year. He's at least like in that conversation,
So it's horrible to see him go down with an
ACL Obviously, Richie Saunders also, you know, I mean just
ultimate program guy, a four year guy at one school
in this day and age, where he's you know, taking
himself from a role player into potential All American this
year with the way that he was playing, like just
gut wrenching to see him go down like that and
lose the rest of his season. And obviously, you know
for BYU it team has already been hit really hard
with injuries. You've just taken on so much water as
far as that's concerned throughout the season. So I don't
know exactly what the ceiling is. I mean, AJ's playing
awesome thirty points a game over the last five, but
he's gonna need some help, and I don't know if
there's enough help but enough firepower there for a deep
run this year. But we'll see, you know. I know,
Kevin Young seems seems pretty fired up about that. And
then you throw in like even CoA Pete, I think
he's gonna be okay, but the way things are going
in the Big Twelve right now, he's having to miss
a week and so you worry about what the long
term prognosis is there. And then you know Bill self
is now getting a little set up. It seems that
the press conference is with Darren Peterson and not knowing
exactly how to handle what's going on with that. So
I just hope that the if it's gonna be Houston
or Eye with Day carrying everybody else, or the rest
of the league kind of regrouping and gathering itself for
the NCAA Tournament, I hope things are okay there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, pretty devastating news for the Big Twelve, especially as
they've been considered the best conference in America alongside the
Big Ten. And you don't want to to be like
the postseason of the Big Toe. Now, the Big Twelve
did okay in the postseason for in football, right, but
they kind of fell short a little bit. Wouldn't you
say they underachieved a little bit in the postseason.
Speaker 1: Well, I think it's just the Texas Tech game overshadows
everything right in football, So that's kind of how I
would phrase it. It's like that was such a dud
that it's hard to really regain much else outside of that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And so I feel like the Big Twelve may
be trending in that same direction. With j C. Toppins
and your Richie Saunders injury.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean the good news is, like we saw
the Houston Iowa State game on Monday night, which was
one of the best games of the season, one of
the best games probably in the country so far this
year between those two, and they seem to be totally
rolling right now. Now. I will say I'm a little
cautious with Iowa State because the reputation at Otzolberger has
been like that they do tail off a little bit
in March after having incredible regular seasons or at least
all the way up through like late January, and then
maybe they're not quite as good after that. They seem
to be peaking at a much better time this year,
which I think is positive. We just saw Houston almost
win the national championship last year, so I trust that
they'll be ready to go for a deep run. And
then Arizona, Yeah, it's just it's like contingent on the
health of co Opete. But they are really deep, you know.
I will say that we're talking about death issues with
like Texas Tech and BYU, Arizona is pretty deep. So
if there is a team that's built to withstand a
little bit of an injury issue, Arizona would have a
better shot there. But yeah, that's my you know, nervous
caution with the situation right now is yeah, hopefully it's
not headed towards something like that, and it's just a
bit of a you know, we're in the dog days, right,
We're in the dog days of the basketball season. You
get into mid to late February, it's a grind, especially
in this conference. So hopefully once everybody comes out of
playing everybody at the Big twelve, things will look really
nice in the NCAA tournament.
Speaker 3: Wanted to get your thoughts on the Darren Peterson situation.
I was I thought this entire time that Bill Self
was in on the load management structure right of Darren Peterson, Like, hey,
he gets to do what he wants, when he wants,
how he wants. He can sub himself out, you know,
he's he may or may not have an injury. He
was in on it, right. He got him there to
to to Kansas and was like, look, we just we
just want you here and you can do whatever you want.
We just need you here. It seems like Bill self
is no longer. It seems like the last two press
conferences post game and then earlier today, he's not in
on it, Like he's like, no, we got to get
him to play. We got to figure this out. Give
me your thoughts on this situation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean March, you know, I think it's March.
Like March is right around the corner, and they're looking
around like, Okay, this has gone on long enough, Like
we got to the NCAA tournament, Bill Selftones, that's how
he's gonna be judged. Kansas has been disappointing there since
winning the national championship back in the twenty one to
twenty two season, so he knows he's got to get
that figured out then right now, It's like, I'm sure
they thought they would have a little clearer picture of
what this was going to look like by you know,
late February, and they don't. So to me, it just
it screams like a coach that's feeling the pressure of that,
and I mean just the frustration and like, look, I
don't blame him, I mean, how could you not be
frustrated with how everything's played out with that And another
example of it, I mean, probably the most egregious example
we've seen of it was just him hitting a three
and turning around to the bench and immediately wanting to
pull himself out. Just the optics are not good with
that at the moment. So I'm with you that self
probably has had some level of realization throughout this whole
process that like there's an inevitability to like, we're gonna
have to deal with some of this. But it sure
makes you think that part of the discussion was like, oh,
you know, we get closer to March or whatever, maybe
maybe you can go a little further, we can unlock
this a bit more, and that that obviously is still
not happening. So maybe in the NCAA tournament, Peterson and
his team will decide like, look, this is the highest
profile stage we've got. This is why you come to
college to play in these NCAA tournament games. Will totally
cut it loose here. But man, I don't know, because
you've already gotten this to the point where it's such
a big storyline that it's a legitimate talking point for
him being the number one pick in the draft or not,
therefore theoretically affecting his future a little bit. They've already
like crossed that bridge. So I don't know that you'd
be like well, we'll let him play all the way
through in the NCAA tournament because it'll save that. Because
I don't know if it's going to say that, people
are already questioning it enough. So yeah, I don't have
like a great feel on what's going on there, other
than to say, I mean, hey, if it's been like
this for November, December, January, and now February, I'm not
going to be the guy that goes out there and
predicts that it'll be totally different in March when they're
in like a sweet sixteen game, you know, with five
minutes to go in a tie game, I'm not going
to be overly confident that Darren Peterson is going to
be out there for him.
Speaker 3: Continuing down the line of Big twelve conversation, coach Tang
was let go his job for cause what's the recent
updates on that front? Give me your perspective on this
as you cover this team on the daily.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, here's the thing I think a lot of people,
and I understand why, are kind of missing some of
the biggest piece of this story. All Case State has
done publicly is say, insinuate, not even directly say, but
insinuate that the firing four cause was about the press
conference after the Cincinnati game where he said, a bunch
of these guys aren't even going to be here. They
don't next year, they don't deserve to wear the uniform
all that. There's more to it than that, Like, it's
not just that this is that's kind of like a
last straw with the long line of things behind the
scenes that I think have been difficult for them to
deal with. I don't think Jerome Tang has been a
really easy guy to deal with behind the scenes. And
I would just put it to you like this, think
about it like an iceberg. Right, you see the tip
of the iceberg, but there always massive amounts of ice
actually underneath the water that you're not seeing. But what
we've seen is over the last few years, Jerome Tang
got involved in a massive scandal at Iowa State where
he accused d j Olziberger of spying on him in
the huddle and did that in the handshake line, and
it became a huge thing and was very embarrassing to
the school. Earlier that season, Nakwon Tomlin got kicked off
the team. There was a bar fight incident. There was
also a title nine incident behind the scenes that didn't
get really publicized at the time. A lot of he said,
she said Tang basically turned the entire fan base and
media against the university president on that one. It was
a huge drama filled thing that drug on for a
long time. You have that there was an assistant coach
that got in a little scuffle with a Kansas assistant
after Case AVTU one year in Bramwa's coliseum. He had
his own dust up with Bill self and a handshake
line at one point. There have been weird absences for
players in and out of the lineup each of the
last few years. There's just been a lot, a lot
of drama and a lot of things that have been
public for everybody to see. So I would just ask
you if that's the iceberg that you can see, let's
just take a guess that there might be some other
things happening under the water there. Now. I'm not saying
that it's not a little bit intellectually dishonest. Yeah, from
case state that I mean, of course, he's being fired
because he's not good. And of course if he were
eleven to one in the Big twelve instead of one
and eleven, they wouldn't be firing him, But what industry
is that not really the case where a high achiever
gets away with a lot more, and that a pattern
of bad behavior could be something that does get you
fired if you're not performing up to standards. And the
language in the contract, there is some pretty solid language
there about conduct that causes embarrassment to the university, the school,
or the coach, and you can go read the specifics
of it. I'm no lawyer, but it certainly reads to
me like there's at least a case there. And I
don't think Case State's idea with any of this was, oh,
we're going to get out of the whole eighteen point
seven million. They're trying to do the same thing that
Texas Tech did with Mark Adams. They're trying to do
the same thing Saint John's did with Mike Anderson, which
is just settle, just settle, get some of the buyout
knocked off, and that would be my guess as to
what ultimately happens here is that they will save a
little bit of money. They probably didn't anticipate this much
blowback to it, which I think they've been hurt by
the fact that it happened in season, and it happened
at a really slow part of the sports calendar, So
you have all these people helicoptering in to give takes
on it because there's not much else going on, Like
I don't genuinely think Steven A. Smith really cares about
k State firing Jerome Tang, But there's not a whole
lot going on. So Steven A. Smith is actually talking
about it, so you can debate the merits of the
pr hit versus you know, what you might actually save
and what the settlement's going to look like. But I
don't think I've been I will admit to you I've
been a little annoyed at the just everybody helicoptering yes
to drop a bomb on case date like this is
the most ridiculous. We've never seen anything like this, We've
seen play this. Also, the coaching community has a vested
interest in coming out and saying, hey, you can't do this.
Pay the guy is money. So you're Steph Greenberg's your
fran for shill Is. Of course they're all over that
because they don't want the precedent set of this becoming
a more regular thing where guys are going to lose
some of their buyout money on a regular basis. So
all of it's just it's annoyed me a bit, but
I fully recognize it's not like the most in good
faith in the world thing that Case State is doing here.
Speaker 3: Well, what's interesting is didn't Drum Tang say the kind
of the quiet part out loud with like how he
would how coaches maybe possibly set themselves up to get
fired for cause. But then he said he would maybe
go on like a mission trip and set up I
don't know. I think he said something about maybe schools
and orphanages and things of that nature. I can't remember
which podcast I saw it on. It you may have
more insight there, had you heard of anything like that.
He went on record in the off season about this.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm trying to so I believe the Clipper referencing
is held. He would do a segment the case they
would produce that was called like hang Him with Tang,
where he would go sit on a couch with students,
yes at Case State, and they would ask him questions.
And I can't remember the full context of it, but
he kind of cracked a joke like, well, hey, i'd
be cool just taking my taking my buyout money or
whatever and going off to an island or something like that.
So in jest, he did make a comment like that
at one point in time, I have no idea. Look again,
like I'm not a lawyer. I have no idea how
much that can help him or hurt him. I will
tell you. The Athletic did a really good article and
they didn't even analyze everything I said about, like, hey,
I think there's other stuff going on here too that'll
be a part of case state's case. They just took
it at face value and like, okay, what about the
embarrassment piece. Match it with the press conference? How does
this work? And a couple of the lawyers they talked
to said, actually, the kind of smoking gun, if you will,
in that. The thing that Tang said that really hurt
him is when he said most of these guys aren't
even going to be here next year. Because they said,
now you're making the case like okay, so you're already
kicking guys off the team midseason, or you're talking about
contract negotiations with these guys already that we might want
to have a state. You should go read the articles
by David Ubben at The Athletic. It was pretty good.
But they seem to think that that would be the
most problematic part for Tang. So he's said some things. Now, Look,
I think Jane Taylor, Case States Athletic Director has also
done some things that are a little detrimental. He did
an interview with the Manhattan Mercury, one of the local papers,
where I just can't imagine why the university council let
him do that. But so I think both sides have
probably hurt themselves a little bit with some public comments.
And I don't think either side wants it to go
to discovery at all. So I think that's why you're
probably to see this thing settle at some point.
Speaker 3: Love to break down. John Kertz here on es me
and the fan. John, you've also you did a little
peace on Provo and BYU and road trips. I know
your name could be had for good and evil. When
you talk positively about a trip to Provo, give a
little give a little breakdown of what what you discussed
and maybe the repercussions of such.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny. It's funny you bring that up.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 1: So I will just say, I mean, so I've been
three times now, I went to the KSE a game
in twenty four. I went to the Utah football game
this past year and then explore Utah. Vlley did bring
me out for a trip to go watch the Houston
basketball game. Now I bring that up to say, like, yeah,
I'm I'm getting killed by some folks, you know. Oh,
like obviously you're gonna say good things about it if
someone's bringing you out there. I say that to say
I've done it twice on my own and one time, yeah,
I was covering case D. I came back again just
out of my own pot, both times, out of my
own pocket, just to go do it. And I am
being genuine when I say that in my fifteen years
of like making road trips as someone who I mean,
I love the mountains, I love the outdoors, I love hiking,
Like I really do like that vibe. So maybe Provo
appeals to me a little bit more than another guy
or another college football fan who maybe they're more into like, Hey,
I want somewhere there where I can just go to
a massive party. That's not really my vibe, but it's
legitimately my favorite trip that I have taken in doing
all this, and that is genuine and That's why I've
done it twice on my own without even you know,
anybody sending me out there. So it's a little frustrating,
But like I knew there would be some of that.
I knew I would get some of that, you know,
what to expect. I think it's a cool thing. I
like coming out there. If you want me to come
out there and talk about the good things happening in Provo,
I will definitely do it. And you know, I also
I do get a little frustrated with people that haven't
been there talking about the typical stereotypes that you hear,
because I'm like, look, man, I've I've been out enough
and just through what I'm doing with my platform, have
met enough YU fans, some of whom have become really
close friends of mine that I just really like, I've
been treated so well. I really like the people and
are just really nice, average people like I Just so
I did want to try try and put my spin on,
just trying to show like, hey, it's just it's like
any place that you would go, just with some beautiful
mountains and an unbelievable athletics program right now, and some
really good food and you know, plenty of things to
do outdoors, as I trying to orchestrate or illustrate rather
in the video. But I knew, I knew there would
be some pushback to it. There's always going to be that.
I just if it can get the message out there
positively to some people. I hope that some people are
legitimately listening, and I have enough credibility in their eyes
for them to listen to that. And you know, we'll
deal with the haters who cares.
Speaker 3: You know, always there's always love and hate wherever you go,
my friend, as soon as you a pine, as soon
as you open your mouth, all will will flow positively
or negatively. That is the case, my friend. How many
sell out comments did you get from that post? How
many sellout posts?
Speaker 1: Oh? I mean, like there was one one for sure
on Twitter that I'm thinking of, And I haven't checked
the YouTube comments in a minute. I had one or two.
It wasn't like terrible, terrible. But the people that come in,
you know, come in real strong. They're trying to really
rech so you know, it is what it is. I
have look, every time something like that happens, I have
to think and like stop and remind myself, like Hey,
especially in my younger years, like I've been that guy
on the other side of it too, so I can't
you know, some of it's some of it's just going
to come back around. And that's why I try to
do very very little event these days and just do
my things, stay in my own lane. So you are,
as you get older in life.
Speaker 3: You know, do great work. Man. Always appreciate anything else
that's been keeping you up at night that you've been
talking about on your podcast. We invite everyone to follow
you and subscribe to your podcast.
Speaker 1: Man. The only other story that was kind of interesting
to me recently was Texas ducking out on that Arizona
State series, which it's in football. It's not until the
twenty thirties, was like thirty one and thirty two, so
who knows what the heck college football is going to
look like at that point anyway, But Texas is doing
it because the SEC is going to a nine game schedule,
nine game conference schedule, which to me signaled a little
bit of like okay, like Big twelve teams aren't going
to need to understand this reality, Like it's going to
be harder to schedule SEC teams because they don't want
to schedule a loss, and Texas is keeping Ohio State
and Notre Dame on the schedule. I'm sure thinking, well,
if we do lose to them, that won't be really
a reputational hit. We could definitely lose to Arizona State,
as we learned in the College Football Playoff, and then
we probably wouldn't really get as much benefit of the
doubt because that's a big twelve team. So I think
it's going to get harder to schedule SEC teams, maybe
just big brands in general, which puts extra emphasis on
games like Notre Dame BYU and like Oklahoma State Oregon,
which people aren't talking about as much. And look, it's
probably a long shot, but you definitely want to have
a better showing than Oklahoma State did last year. You
just got to take advantage of these opportunities when you
can get them. And kudos to Arizona State because they've
got Texas A and M this year and next, and
then they have a series with LSU on the books too,
so they're not shy about going out there and trying
to get series like that. And Texas Tech, I'm sure
they're trying. I don't know exactly how hard they are
trying right now, but with their non con schedule and
taking a bit of a beating over that this year. Tech,
especially if they want to be the big boys of
the conference, they should probably be trying to go get
some of those games too, but might be a little
bit more difficult after what we saw Texas do there
to back out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I've had this discussion with you. The
SEC does not want any sort of cross conference data
points to work against them. That's the last thing they want.
They want the equity that's been built over the last
twenty five thirty years to continue into the modern era
because when they go head to head against other power conferences,
we see what happens. They're maybe okay with the Big
ten because you know the Big ten is on an
equivalent sphere. They don't want the SEC. They don't want
the Big twelve. They don't want any G six programs
that prominence because they may lose those games and undermine
the their equity that they've built for twenty five thirty years,
that was built off of bagmen and rural from rural
car dealerships. That's that's what it was built off. The
SEC was built off of bagmen and rural car dealership deals.
Speaker 1: That's it. That's it's such an astute point, I mean
because and like it's hard to blame them, like they
have got the system so set up for them, right,
Like everything works for them based on what's happened in
the last two decades. That's probably what anybody would try
and do, right, Like just and you saw it with
how they fought the college Football Playoff in the off season,
that they need more at large bids because basically, we're
the SEC, and here are these data points you should
look at because we're the toughest conference and we play
each other all the time. So yeah, they just want
to keep it in house. And it even got to
the point where one of the latest Ross Dellinger stories
was about how with all the issues and enforcement of
NIL and the deals above the cap, I mean, the
talk out of the SEC now was, well, maybe we'll
just play a twelve game schedule against each other because
then we can dictate all the rules. They're competing against
ourselves and like, of course, you guys will accept our
champion as the best or what because we're the SEC
and we built up this reputation like they're willing to
even go nuclear option basically on it and just say
forget everybody else, We're only going to play each other.
I mean, that's that's how much they think along those
lines right now. So I think it's it's a verius
due point that you bring.
Speaker 3: Up there, John Kurtz. We should let you appreciate you,
and we invite everyone to follow you and subscribe to
check out whose podcast Open for Business, Big twelve Insider
podcast and YouTube YouTube show. Appreciate you, John, thanks for
hopping on today.
Speaker 1: Hey, take care ben any all right?
Speaker 3: Appreciate you, John Kurtz, Ladies and gentlemen. Great segment with
John and Big Google, wrote him, as we wrap up
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