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Not necessary boid. 27 00:00:58.079 --> 00:00:59.359 We we're gon be my low eighteen plus terms and 28 00:00:59.359 --> 00:01:02.960 conditions of plus zup to Canadian. 29 00:01:12.040 --> 00:01:15.439 You are now listening to True Murder, The Most Shocking 30 00:01:15.560 --> 00:01:18.599 Killers in True Crime History and the authors that have 31 00:01:18.680 --> 00:01:25.959 written about them Gaesy, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK. Every 32 00:01:26.000 --> 00:01:29.680 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 33 00:01:29.799 --> 00:01:34.319 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 34 00:01:34.680 --> 00:01:47.840 journalist and author Dan Zupansky. 35 00:01:47.879 --> 00:01:50.519 Good evening, This is your host Dan Zupanski for the 36 00:01:50.560 --> 00:01:53.359 program True Murder, The most Shocking Killers in True Crime 37 00:01:53.480 --> 00:01:56.879 History and the authors that have written about them. On 38 00:01:57.000 --> 00:02:01.359 January twenty eight, twenty and eleven, the Kappa Police Department 39 00:02:01.439 --> 00:02:03.560 received a phone call from a woman who was worried 40 00:02:03.560 --> 00:02:07.799 about her daughter, Julie Shaneker, a devoted army wife and 41 00:02:07.879 --> 00:02:10.199 mother of two, Julie had sent her mother an email 42 00:02:10.680 --> 00:02:14.439 that could be described as suicidal. When authorities arrived at 43 00:02:15.159 --> 00:02:20.599 shaneker home, they encountered a horrific scene. Sixteen year old 44 00:02:20.639 --> 00:02:23.719 Kalyx and thirteen year old Beaux Shaneker were found dead, 45 00:02:23.919 --> 00:02:27.879 both of them shot, then covered with blankets. Upon questioning, 46 00:02:27.960 --> 00:02:31.439 Julie admitted that she was tired of the kids talking 47 00:02:31.520 --> 00:02:34.840 back and just wanted it to be over. Had her 48 00:02:34.879 --> 00:02:38.159 manic depression driven her to the point of insanity or 49 00:02:38.280 --> 00:02:42.400 was hers a case of a cold calculated violence and manipulation. 50 00:02:43.439 --> 00:02:46.159 This is the shocking true story of motherhood, mental illness, 51 00:02:46.319 --> 00:02:50.039 and two charges of murder in the first degree. The 52 00:02:50.039 --> 00:02:52.879 book that we're featuring this evening is Sleep My Darlings, 53 00:02:53.759 --> 00:02:56.000 The true story of a mother who killed her children 54 00:02:56.039 --> 00:02:59.240 in cold blood, with my special guest journalist and author 55 00:02:59.639 --> 00:03:02.319 Diane Welcome back to the program, and thank you very 56 00:03:02.400 --> 00:03:04.680 much for agreeing to this interview. Diane Fanning. 57 00:03:05.879 --> 00:03:07.199 Terrific to be Richier again. 58 00:03:07.319 --> 00:03:11.360 Dan Well, thank you, thank you very much. Another great book, 59 00:03:11.400 --> 00:03:13.759 by the way, and our audience is in for a 60 00:03:13.800 --> 00:03:21.680 treat now. You portray, you paint a portrait of Julie Sheneker, 61 00:03:24.400 --> 00:03:28.199 And you've done exhaustive research here and had, of course, 62 00:03:28.520 --> 00:03:32.680 as usual, some incredible access to all the players that 63 00:03:32.759 --> 00:03:36.759 are the major players in this story. And I think 64 00:03:36.800 --> 00:03:41.840 it's important how long you spend and how exhaustive this 65 00:03:41.879 --> 00:03:45.039 research is to be able to tell us exactly who 66 00:03:45.400 --> 00:03:48.960 Julie Sheneker is. So tell us start in the beginning, 67 00:03:49.560 --> 00:03:53.080 who is Julie Sheneker, What is her background, Where does 68 00:03:53.120 --> 00:03:56.080 she come from? What is her roots? Tell us about 69 00:03:56.159 --> 00:03:58.319 Julie Sheneker. 70 00:03:58.479 --> 00:04:01.719 Julie Sheneker was basically a farm girls mile and she 71 00:04:03.439 --> 00:04:08.080 grew up out in the country, and she was very 72 00:04:08.840 --> 00:04:12.439 much liked. She was a very pleasant person. She was, 73 00:04:12.479 --> 00:04:15.960 as one of her high school classmates described it, the 74 00:04:16.040 --> 00:04:19.240 kind of daughter you wanted to have when you had children. 75 00:04:19.759 --> 00:04:22.279 So everybody wanted to be Jeweli or to have a 76 00:04:22.399 --> 00:04:29.800 childlike Jewelry someday. She was an athlete and a scholar 77 00:04:30.160 --> 00:04:34.759 and just an all round nice person. There was nothing 78 00:04:34.800 --> 00:04:38.319 in her early years to foreshadow any of this. Then 79 00:04:38.360 --> 00:04:45.360 she went off to university and excelled again in sports 80 00:04:45.800 --> 00:04:52.319 or the volleyball team, and did well academically. When she graduated, 81 00:04:52.480 --> 00:04:58.439 she joined the army and went into Army intelligence, and 82 00:04:58.519 --> 00:05:03.879 she had a very high pressure, prestigious position. She was 83 00:05:03.920 --> 00:05:09.720 based in Germany during the Cold War and her job 84 00:05:10.199 --> 00:05:14.000 was to interview people that were coming out from behind 85 00:05:14.040 --> 00:05:19.040 the iron curtains seeking asylum. She was a Russian specialist, 86 00:05:19.360 --> 00:05:25.160 so she could speak fluent Russian and she understood about 87 00:05:25.199 --> 00:05:29.720 the Russian culture and she could communicate with these people 88 00:05:29.759 --> 00:05:33.360 and basically debriefed them. When they were trying to find 89 00:05:33.399 --> 00:05:39.079 asylum in the United States, and that was the kind 90 00:05:39.079 --> 00:05:43.120 of job that really required a lot for a person, 91 00:05:43.160 --> 00:05:46.199 that required a lot of intellectual ability and a lot 92 00:05:46.240 --> 00:05:50.600 of staying power. And as one of her co workers said, 93 00:05:50.720 --> 00:05:53.519 everybody in that unit was a type a person and 94 00:05:53.560 --> 00:05:57.199 they all worked. And then they played hard too, with 95 00:05:57.319 --> 00:06:01.680 all the beer festivals in that part of and she 96 00:06:01.839 --> 00:06:06.680 had a bike as she rode recreationally. She captained me 97 00:06:07.519 --> 00:06:12.120 and coached the volleyball team. She was a very busy 98 00:06:12.160 --> 00:06:15.439 woman and it was in that capacity that she met 99 00:06:15.480 --> 00:06:20.759 the man she was married with, Chris Schenniker, And after 100 00:06:20.800 --> 00:06:23.600 she started having children, she became a stay at home 101 00:06:23.680 --> 00:06:28.360 mom taking care of her kids. Traveled across the United 102 00:06:28.399 --> 00:06:33.279 States in different bases where her husband was posted, went 103 00:06:33.319 --> 00:06:41.959 to Hawaii for a while, and eventually ended up in Tampa, Florida, 104 00:06:42.439 --> 00:06:47.199 where her husband was a colonel in Army intelligence. And 105 00:06:47.439 --> 00:06:53.639 she was very socially active with friends, got involved in 106 00:06:53.639 --> 00:07:01.000 in charitable events in volunteering there. She was not from 107 00:07:01.040 --> 00:07:08.079 the outside what anyone would have expected in the long term, 108 00:07:08.120 --> 00:07:10.879 and what actually happened to it was very much of 109 00:07:10.879 --> 00:07:14.839 a surprise to many people. People closest to her knew 110 00:07:14.920 --> 00:07:19.319 she was having problems, but I don't think anyone really 111 00:07:20.920 --> 00:07:28.399 understood the magnitude, severity, and life threatening nature of what 112 00:07:28.720 --> 00:07:34.639 was going on with her. She was diagnosed bipolar, and 113 00:07:35.920 --> 00:07:41.240 bipolar people have a particular challenge, and that is to 114 00:07:41.319 --> 00:07:46.120 be able to stay on medications, because the temptation is 115 00:07:46.360 --> 00:07:51.920 so extreme to get off the medications because they make 116 00:07:52.639 --> 00:07:55.639 for a lot of people with bipolar disorder, they make 117 00:07:55.879 --> 00:08:01.519 everything kind of flat. And yeah, the depressions of bipole 118 00:08:01.560 --> 00:08:07.480 are horrible, but also the hides can feel wonderful when 119 00:08:07.519 --> 00:08:11.920 you're in them. And so it's difficult for someone with 120 00:08:12.480 --> 00:08:15.720 that problem to maintain their medication and keep on it. 121 00:08:16.240 --> 00:08:20.399 And Julie had a very difficult time with that, and 122 00:08:20.480 --> 00:08:24.279 she couldn't manage it. And after she was in an 123 00:08:24.279 --> 00:08:27.720 all car accident, she got some pain pills and so 124 00:08:28.639 --> 00:08:32.080 she was abusing those, she was self medicating with alcohol. 125 00:08:32.279 --> 00:08:36.320 She was doing all sorts of things that would not 126 00:08:36.519 --> 00:08:40.360 even be good if you didn't have mental health issues, 127 00:08:40.360 --> 00:08:45.960 but when you do, it's even worse. And I'll be honest, 128 00:08:46.039 --> 00:08:50.080 and when I sat down to write this book, I 129 00:08:50.159 --> 00:08:56.759 did not expect that I would have any compassionate all 130 00:08:56.960 --> 00:09:00.559 for Julie Schenneker in light of what she had done. 131 00:09:00.960 --> 00:09:07.720 But I've found myself having a lot of compassion for her. 132 00:09:08.360 --> 00:09:11.799 It doesn't mitigate anything that she did that is still 133 00:09:12.440 --> 00:09:21.759 absolutely horrible, But she really had a difficult condition. She 134 00:09:21.879 --> 00:09:25.639 was having trouble getting medications that were working right for her, 135 00:09:26.559 --> 00:09:32.480 and she really was, aside from what her mental illness 136 00:09:32.480 --> 00:09:37.759 stead to her, a really nice and good person. And 137 00:09:37.799 --> 00:09:40.840 the drug abuse and the alcohol abuse combined with her 138 00:09:40.879 --> 00:09:43.440 mental condition created a monster. 139 00:09:46.120 --> 00:09:49.200 Let's go back for our audience though, because we've kind 140 00:09:49.200 --> 00:09:53.039 of skipped over the story to a certain degree, so 141 00:09:53.080 --> 00:09:55.519 we'll go back a little bit and tell a little 142 00:09:55.519 --> 00:09:57.840 bit more of it. What I found interesting is that 143 00:09:58.120 --> 00:10:00.399 I've found it surprising what you just did. I did 144 00:10:00.440 --> 00:10:03.480 say that you found compassion for Julie Sheneker, and you 145 00:10:04.080 --> 00:10:06.639 in the initially didn't think that you would have any 146 00:10:06.639 --> 00:10:11.639 compassion for her given the crimes they were committed. What 147 00:10:11.679 --> 00:10:13.799 I wanted to get into a little bit is that 148 00:10:14.000 --> 00:10:18.000 we want to know when exactly this mental illness was diagnosed, 149 00:10:18.759 --> 00:10:24.559 and exactly how serious was the disease that was diagnosed, 150 00:10:24.559 --> 00:10:28.279 and of course what was she You talked about hospitalization. 151 00:10:28.759 --> 00:10:30.919 Of course, she was on a certain amount of drugs, 152 00:10:31.480 --> 00:10:34.000 but we want to talk about later about the actual 153 00:10:34.039 --> 00:10:36.799 amount of drugs and different variety of drugs that were 154 00:10:36.840 --> 00:10:42.120 found at the Shaneker home after police were called to 155 00:10:42.159 --> 00:10:44.399 the home. And we're not at that point yet, So 156 00:10:44.480 --> 00:10:47.399 let's go back a little bit. When was she first diagnosed. 157 00:10:48.000 --> 00:10:49.799 I know it was around the time that they were married, 158 00:10:49.799 --> 00:10:53.080 But tell us when that first diagnosis was, and what 159 00:10:53.360 --> 00:10:56.799 that diagnosis was specifically, and what was the course of 160 00:10:56.840 --> 00:11:00.279 action taken upon and recommended by the doctor at that time. 161 00:11:02.960 --> 00:11:07.960 At the time she was diagnosed, which was in the 162 00:11:08.000 --> 00:11:16.240 early nineties, she was it was recommended that she, you know, 163 00:11:16.879 --> 00:11:22.200 take medication to treat her illness. The first thing was 164 00:11:22.279 --> 00:11:25.639 that the diagnosis for at first was depression, so she 165 00:11:25.679 --> 00:11:30.360 put her in a depressant. And that's very common with 166 00:11:30.480 --> 00:11:34.480 people who are by a polar that they're first because 167 00:11:34.480 --> 00:11:36.840 that's when you go for help, is when you're depressed. 168 00:11:37.200 --> 00:11:38.879 You don't go for help when you're in the middle 169 00:11:38.879 --> 00:11:42.320 of the high So it takes a while for a 170 00:11:42.480 --> 00:11:48.679 doctor to recognize that it's more than just depression. But 171 00:11:49.679 --> 00:11:51.600 it took a couple of years in her case, and 172 00:11:52.600 --> 00:12:03.200 she was, over the course of twenty years, medicated, hospitalized, 173 00:12:04.159 --> 00:12:10.919 she went to rehab for drug abuse. It was a 174 00:12:11.120 --> 00:12:17.360 situation that you would like to hope that she could 175 00:12:17.399 --> 00:12:20.440 be getting better, but it seemed like every step she 176 00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:24.240 took forward, eventually she'd slide two back. 177 00:12:26.879 --> 00:12:31.879 There was no diagnosis, though, of violence or violent features 178 00:12:31.960 --> 00:12:38.039 to her bipolar disease, the depression or the bipolar diagnosis. 179 00:12:38.159 --> 00:12:41.120 There was no violent features in there was. 180 00:12:41.039 --> 00:12:44.039 There no There were times that it was thought she 181 00:12:44.120 --> 00:12:48.879 might be dangerous to herself. Now. The last time she 182 00:12:49.120 --> 00:12:55.799 was hospitalized, she would not give the doctor permission to 183 00:12:55.840 --> 00:13:00.440 speak to her husband, and in the because of the 184 00:13:00.519 --> 00:13:04.600 hippo laws in this country, he couldn't do that without 185 00:13:04.600 --> 00:13:09.799 her permission. And I often wonder if Parker and her 186 00:13:09.879 --> 00:13:13.279 doctor could have talked openly and freely about what was 187 00:13:13.320 --> 00:13:16.639 going on with Julie, if that would have made a 188 00:13:16.679 --> 00:13:22.799 difference in the track of her life. If Parker had 189 00:13:22.879 --> 00:13:27.840 realized the seriousness of her condition, I'm sure he would 190 00:13:27.919 --> 00:13:30.799 not have left her alone with two kids and gone 191 00:13:30.840 --> 00:13:35.080 to quit there. He could have gotten a family emergency leave. 192 00:13:35.240 --> 00:13:37.279 He could have called a family member to come in 193 00:13:37.960 --> 00:13:43.320 and stay with them. I just think he was not 194 00:13:43.440 --> 00:13:47.639 able to be fully informed. And as a result of this, 195 00:13:47.919 --> 00:13:54.159 you know, he now has no children, and that's really sad. 196 00:13:56.200 --> 00:13:59.399 It's very sad. But I also maybe it's just from 197 00:13:59.440 --> 00:14:02.559 living in camp. In my whole life, I did have 198 00:14:02.759 --> 00:14:07.200 sympathy for Julie Scheneker. And where my sympathy was lying 199 00:14:09.240 --> 00:14:12.320 was as the story unfolded, I said, I'd be awfully 200 00:14:12.320 --> 00:14:16.080 depressed myself. I've got a couple of kids, and no 201 00:14:16.120 --> 00:14:19.039 one can really depict because you didn't get to interview 202 00:14:19.080 --> 00:14:22.440 the children obviously what kind of family life they did 203 00:14:22.480 --> 00:14:24.720 have when they were all together, or what kind of 204 00:14:24.720 --> 00:14:27.639 family life they had when they were apart. But certainly 205 00:14:28.600 --> 00:14:32.279 a move must be traumatic for children. It's also must 206 00:14:32.279 --> 00:14:35.279 be traumatic for a wife. She gave up a career. 207 00:14:35.320 --> 00:14:38.480 She was a very important military She had a very 208 00:14:38.519 --> 00:14:41.639 important military career too. So it wasn't that she gave 209 00:14:41.759 --> 00:14:45.519 up something that wasn't a real passion of hers. She 210 00:14:45.639 --> 00:14:48.840 gave this up traveled the world. I guess she obviously 211 00:14:48.919 --> 00:14:52.159 knew that he was a career military man, and she 212 00:14:52.240 --> 00:14:55.879 understood that. But I thought, I think it's depressing just 213 00:14:57.000 --> 00:15:00.120 by nature of him not being there very often and 214 00:15:01.440 --> 00:15:06.919 her dealing with teenage, a teenager and another two teenagers actually, 215 00:15:08.480 --> 00:15:11.600 and and all the things that go along with a 216 00:15:11.679 --> 00:15:15.679 marriage or maybe a life just not so fulfilled. I 217 00:15:15.919 --> 00:15:19.360 thought that that was part of I think the thing 218 00:15:19.360 --> 00:15:21.840 that you probably couldn't get to unless you really spoke 219 00:15:21.879 --> 00:15:26.639 to Julie. And maybe that's just my imagination, but I. 220 00:15:26.559 --> 00:15:29.960 Do think I do think she had multiple stressors in 221 00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:35.240 her life. You know, the frequent moving is stressful, selling 222 00:15:35.240 --> 00:15:39.559 a house, buying a house is stressful. Having teenagers in 223 00:15:39.600 --> 00:15:43.639 the house is stressful. Being separated from your spouse is stressful. 224 00:15:43.759 --> 00:15:44.120 And so. 225 00:15:46.120 --> 00:15:51.679 You know, she had a lot on her. For any person, 226 00:15:51.840 --> 00:15:55.279 if she was a friend of yours, you'd be sympathizing 227 00:15:55.320 --> 00:15:57.720 with her a lot, because she did. She carried a 228 00:15:57.759 --> 00:16:05.679 heavy burden. And I think that a lot of people 229 00:16:06.080 --> 00:16:09.960 often don't realize. They look at a woman who gives 230 00:16:10.039 --> 00:16:12.360 up a career and stays them and goes. Isn't she 231 00:16:12.559 --> 00:16:16.759 lucky she doesn't have to work every day? But there 232 00:16:16.879 --> 00:16:20.080 is something there, Particularly if you have a fulfilling job 233 00:16:20.519 --> 00:16:25.200 and a demanding job like she did, you lose a 234 00:16:25.240 --> 00:16:31.120 piece of yourself and of your self identity, and you 235 00:16:31.279 --> 00:16:35.799 don't have as much fulfillment. I think when you're a 236 00:16:35.919 --> 00:16:40.720 parent and you look back at your parenting when it's 237 00:16:40.759 --> 00:16:45.480 over and you see that your children have turned out 238 00:16:45.519 --> 00:16:48.600 and it turned out to be really fine adults, and 239 00:16:48.679 --> 00:16:51.759 you go, wow, that was really fulfilling. But on a 240 00:16:51.879 --> 00:16:55.559 day to day basis, you don't really feel that so often. 241 00:16:56.240 --> 00:17:00.879 You know it's because there's so much detail and drudgery 242 00:17:01.879 --> 00:17:03.799 that goes along with it you've got to take care of. 243 00:17:04.039 --> 00:17:06.880 There are happy moments, there are loving moments, there are 244 00:17:06.880 --> 00:17:11.079 a lot of things, but it's not necessarily fulfilling something 245 00:17:11.119 --> 00:17:15.519 you look back and see what you've accomplished, whereas a 246 00:17:15.640 --> 00:17:19.039 job that you enjoy and love can be fulfilling on 247 00:17:19.079 --> 00:17:21.920 a pretty regular basis. 248 00:17:22.559 --> 00:17:29.200 Right now, two things I thought were important as well 249 00:17:29.319 --> 00:17:31.880 is that, and you know this is not the chronological 250 00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:34.119 order of the book, but I wanted to talk about 251 00:17:34.200 --> 00:17:37.799 when police actually go to the home. And we'll leave 252 00:17:37.839 --> 00:17:42.079 the murder for in a few minutes, but this variety 253 00:17:42.119 --> 00:17:46.039 of drugs and the volume of drugs that were there. Now, 254 00:17:46.200 --> 00:17:50.400 I understand people being prescribed antidepressants, but I'm not going 255 00:17:50.480 --> 00:17:52.880 to ask you off the top of your head the 256 00:17:53.000 --> 00:17:57.799 variety and the amount of drugs that were there, but 257 00:17:58.039 --> 00:18:03.400 safe to say there was say three antidepressants, at least 258 00:18:03.440 --> 00:18:08.720 a couple very very strong oxycotton cardon or whatever it's called. 259 00:18:09.079 --> 00:18:13.799 Yeah, there were the pain killers, which I do not 260 00:18:14.039 --> 00:18:18.839 think that her regular doctor was aware of all the 261 00:18:18.839 --> 00:18:22.640 medications she was taking. I think she had had different doctors, 262 00:18:22.640 --> 00:18:25.720 one because of her accident, and then a regular doctor. 263 00:18:25.799 --> 00:18:30.359 I think she had multiple doctors prescribing for her and 264 00:18:30.400 --> 00:18:34.440 nobody knew the whole picture. But she did have three antidepressions, 265 00:18:34.519 --> 00:18:38.880 she did have a couple of anti anxiety drugs, some 266 00:18:39.119 --> 00:18:45.039 pain killers. Topped that off with just some of cold 267 00:18:45.079 --> 00:18:49.599 medications which can make you a little loopy just by themselves, 268 00:18:49.720 --> 00:18:55.480 and all of that thrown together along with lithium, and 269 00:18:57.119 --> 00:19:03.720 it was just a nightmare pharmaceutical display all over her house. 270 00:19:03.880 --> 00:19:07.400 I mean, they found pills on the dead, they found 271 00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:10.720 him in the bathroom, they found him in her purse, 272 00:19:11.480 --> 00:19:13.720 and then on top of that, they go in the 273 00:19:13.799 --> 00:19:18.279 kitchen and they trash hands full of empty all the 274 00:19:18.400 --> 00:19:24.319 beer cans and wine bottles. And this was a woman 275 00:19:24.440 --> 00:19:28.079 that was obviously at the end of her leash, and 276 00:19:28.839 --> 00:19:35.200 she was self medicating in a very destructive way, and 277 00:19:35.240 --> 00:19:41.240 she had yes, two very very good children. They were 278 00:19:43.240 --> 00:19:49.799 well liked, they were well adjusted for teenagers, and they 279 00:19:49.839 --> 00:19:54.039 weren't causing any serious problems like going out and doing 280 00:19:54.119 --> 00:19:58.279 drugs and getting arrested or anything like that. But the 281 00:19:58.440 --> 00:20:01.599 friction between a sixteen year old daughter and a mother 282 00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:07.400 is often very extreme, and in this case, I think 283 00:20:07.720 --> 00:20:11.039 that Julie's mental illness played a role in it being 284 00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:15.119 even more extreme. Klex was trying to get into a 285 00:20:15.160 --> 00:20:17.960 boarding school because she did not want to live in 286 00:20:17.960 --> 00:20:24.039 the house with their mother anymore. There was no story, though, 287 00:20:24.119 --> 00:20:28.759 of any conflict with though, and that was kind of 288 00:20:28.920 --> 00:20:34.720 odd that she did kill thou because there had never 289 00:20:34.759 --> 00:20:37.759 been any educational conflict between them. 290 00:20:38.319 --> 00:20:41.039 The thing is, it doesn't really you know. Again, we 291 00:20:41.079 --> 00:20:44.039 should just wait for a moment. In terms of this, 292 00:20:45.359 --> 00:20:48.519 I'm trying to paint the picture that you have for 293 00:20:48.599 --> 00:20:52.519 the book with Bully. There is nothing in Julie's background 294 00:20:53.160 --> 00:20:58.400 that would predict anything like the last bit of her life, 295 00:20:58.720 --> 00:21:02.200 and so there is no ability to this insanity. And 296 00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:05.480 in terms of all the cases that you've covered and 297 00:21:05.519 --> 00:21:08.720 all the cases I have looked at, this is still 298 00:21:08.720 --> 00:21:10.640 and I think you're right about this as well, is 299 00:21:10.640 --> 00:21:13.279 that this is this is not typical. This is not 300 00:21:13.400 --> 00:21:17.119 the typical person that kills their children as well, and 301 00:21:17.640 --> 00:21:18.279 these are not. 302 00:21:18.440 --> 00:21:24.119 The It's not the typical person that would kill her children. 303 00:21:24.519 --> 00:21:28.720 There is no I mean usually when teenagers are killed, 304 00:21:28.759 --> 00:21:34.119 there's a history of violence towards them. There are two 305 00:21:34.359 --> 00:21:38.000 incidents of her slapping her daughter, that is it, and 306 00:21:38.079 --> 00:21:43.720 those were shortly before she committed this final act. Also, 307 00:21:43.920 --> 00:21:49.480 when you look at mothers who kill their children, the 308 00:21:49.759 --> 00:21:54.920 younger the child is, the more likely that a mother 309 00:21:55.039 --> 00:21:59.240 will kill the child. By the time children are teenagers, 310 00:21:59.759 --> 00:22:04.319 it's extremely rare for a mother to do that. If 311 00:22:04.559 --> 00:22:08.359 children teenage children are killed by a parents, it is 312 00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:14.559 almost always the father, So this is extremely unusual. 313 00:22:17.319 --> 00:22:23.519 Now, tell us what happens a little bit before this murder. 314 00:22:23.559 --> 00:22:28.440 There is concern from Parker Scheneker about his wife, of course, 315 00:22:28.759 --> 00:22:35.119 not enough to delay or postpone or cancel his work 316 00:22:35.160 --> 00:22:38.880 overseas in the military. But tell us what he does do. 317 00:22:39.000 --> 00:22:42.880 There's an email, There is talk among the families, and 318 00:22:42.920 --> 00:22:45.839 I found this very shocking, and some of it from 319 00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:49.039 her own brother. Tell us a little bit about conversations 320 00:22:49.079 --> 00:22:52.079 and how long that was before this tragic event. 321 00:22:54.119 --> 00:22:58.799 Well right before the event I meany days before he 322 00:22:58.920 --> 00:23:04.559 left the country, they were taught he was talking with 323 00:23:04.640 --> 00:23:07.240 the family about how she had the judgment of a 324 00:23:07.279 --> 00:23:10.920 ten year old, and no one was disagreeing with him. 325 00:23:11.400 --> 00:23:15.920 And they they were wondering, if you know, if he 326 00:23:16.119 --> 00:23:18.440 just had enough of critiquity more and it was going 327 00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:24.119 to be leaving her because of her drug abuse and 328 00:23:24.240 --> 00:23:27.640 having to be put in to rehab and uh getting 329 00:23:27.680 --> 00:23:29.599 into an automobile. 330 00:23:29.079 --> 00:23:37.039 Accident by driving crazy and uh drinking and driving and 331 00:23:37.079 --> 00:23:41.839 not being responsible for the children and at times and 332 00:23:43.279 --> 00:23:47.720 the family was getting garbled messages from her, and they 333 00:23:47.799 --> 00:23:51.880 knew that she her own family knew that she was 334 00:23:51.920 --> 00:23:58.599 not doing well. And yet Parker was the kind of 335 00:23:58.599 --> 00:24:01.559 guy if you if you said said yes, I will 336 00:24:01.599 --> 00:24:04.799 do this, Yes I can do this, no problem, he 337 00:24:04.960 --> 00:24:07.720 was going to believe you. And so when he asked, Julie, 338 00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:12.039 will you be okay if I go on this ten 339 00:24:12.119 --> 00:24:16.359 day deployment to the Middle East, and Julie said yes, 340 00:24:16.519 --> 00:24:22.039 for that time, I can handle that, and so Parker said, 341 00:24:22.279 --> 00:24:24.960 you know, okay, Well, then then you know I won't 342 00:24:24.960 --> 00:24:27.480 be gone long, just ten days. I'll be back. And 343 00:24:27.559 --> 00:24:32.920 I'm sure he never anticipated for one moment that she 344 00:24:33.000 --> 00:24:37.599 would not keep her work. But unfortunately she met something 345 00:24:37.640 --> 00:24:40.960 meant something entirely differently than what he different than what he. 346 00:24:41.000 --> 00:24:46.599 Thought before we get into the actual planning, which you 347 00:24:46.640 --> 00:24:49.000 know puts a big monkey wrench into any kind of 348 00:24:49.000 --> 00:24:55.640 insanity defense. That's for sure. I wanted you to convey 349 00:24:55.680 --> 00:24:58.440 to the audience because again, this is a dynamic that 350 00:24:58.680 --> 00:25:02.279 was awfully shocking to me is how this is a 351 00:25:02.400 --> 00:25:05.559 very religious family. We haven't talked spoken about that, and 352 00:25:05.880 --> 00:25:08.799 that permeates itself all the way through the entire story 353 00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:13.920 after the children are murdered and way beyond. But there's 354 00:25:13.960 --> 00:25:17.119 a letter from her brother I believe his name is 355 00:25:17.200 --> 00:25:21.319 Dave to Julie. And what is the tone of that 356 00:25:21.400 --> 00:25:23.880 letter from her own family member? And I think this 357 00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:29.000 may hopefully explain the kind of impression I got from 358 00:25:29.279 --> 00:25:30.359 this family dynamic. 359 00:25:31.680 --> 00:25:35.440 Well, basically he was telling her to shape up, that 360 00:25:35.599 --> 00:25:38.119 you know, you had no more patience with her, you know, 361 00:25:38.240 --> 00:25:44.640 And this is so common in how family members react 362 00:25:44.759 --> 00:25:48.200 to someone with a mental illness, to expect them to 363 00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:54.759 pull themselves together and stop jerking around and stop like 364 00:25:55.079 --> 00:25:59.079 her brother felt that she was because of the way 365 00:25:59.200 --> 00:26:04.559 she was acting. She was causing Parker to retire before 366 00:26:04.599 --> 00:26:10.680 you made general. And that had been Parker's desire for 367 00:26:10.880 --> 00:26:13.279 years and years, and everybody in the family knew he 368 00:26:13.400 --> 00:26:18.000 wanted to be a general. And so it was all, 369 00:26:18.119 --> 00:26:20.359 you know, look what you're doing to Parker, and look 370 00:26:20.400 --> 00:26:24.119 what you're you're causing him to give up. And nobody 371 00:26:24.240 --> 00:26:27.240 was really looking at what she'd already given up for 372 00:26:27.359 --> 00:26:32.000 one thing, right, And nobody was ever looking at the 373 00:26:32.079 --> 00:26:36.759 mental illness as not being some sort of weakness but 374 00:26:36.880 --> 00:26:39.640 a serious biochemical problems. 375 00:26:42.960 --> 00:26:48.000 And I think that this, well, maybe I'm going to 376 00:26:48.039 --> 00:26:50.079 get ahead of myself if I if I comment on 377 00:26:50.119 --> 00:26:56.000 that anyway, Now, there are some I just mentioned that 378 00:26:56.079 --> 00:27:00.359 there are some plans. There's some premeditation here that really 379 00:27:00.559 --> 00:27:02.839 makes you wonder when you're following this story, and it's 380 00:27:02.880 --> 00:27:05.519 amazing how it's laid out, and it's very, very surprising 381 00:27:05.599 --> 00:27:09.920 that this happens. Tell us about the premeditated plans for murder. 382 00:27:12.119 --> 00:27:18.400 Well, when Parker left for all of his deployments, Julie 383 00:27:18.440 --> 00:27:21.920 went three counties away to a gun store. I mean, 384 00:27:21.960 --> 00:27:24.039 there were a lot of gun stores closer to her home, 385 00:27:24.119 --> 00:27:27.160 but she chose this one that was a little further away. 386 00:27:28.480 --> 00:27:31.599 She went in and she bought her gune and was 387 00:27:31.759 --> 00:27:35.000 very disappointed to find out that she had three day 388 00:27:35.039 --> 00:27:39.960 waiting period. So she went home and wrote in her journal, 389 00:27:40.720 --> 00:27:48.160 the massacre will have to be delayed. And so it 390 00:27:48.279 --> 00:27:53.720 was obvious usually in a lot, in most possibilities of 391 00:27:53.799 --> 00:27:58.960 domestic violence, that three day waiting period can save lives 392 00:27:59.440 --> 00:28:03.160 because it's it's sort of the heat of the moment 393 00:28:03.359 --> 00:28:05.079 kind of thing. I'm going to kill my wife, and 394 00:28:05.119 --> 00:28:06.640 they go out to get the gun to kill her, 395 00:28:06.640 --> 00:28:08.079 and they come if they can get it right away, 396 00:28:08.119 --> 00:28:09.880 to come over and kill her, but if they have 397 00:28:09.960 --> 00:28:15.759 that waiting period, they think better about it. With Julie, though, 398 00:28:17.039 --> 00:28:22.079 that waiting period didn't impact her state of mind. And 399 00:28:22.359 --> 00:28:25.759 I know that for the prosecution who's trying to get 400 00:28:25.759 --> 00:28:31.039 the death penalty, that they say that proves premeditation and 401 00:28:32.079 --> 00:28:38.559