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Speaker 1: Picture this. It is three point zero am. You are

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lying in bed, in that heavy, deep sleep that usually

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only happens when you are totally exhausted.

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Speaker 2: The house is silent, utterly still.

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Speaker 1: But then suddenly the room feels different. It's not a

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sound exactly, No, it's a change in the air pressure.

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The atmosphere feels electric, heavy, like the static charge right

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before a thunderstorm breaks.

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Speaker 2: Hmm. You can almost taste it.

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Speaker 1: You open your eyes expecting to see the familiar shadows

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of your dresser or the coat rack in the corner,

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but instead you see a silhouette that simply shouldn't exist.

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Speaker 2: It's the moment reality.

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Speaker 1: Breaks, exactly. It's standing there at the foot of the bed.

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It's small, maybe three or four feet tall. The body

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is frail, almost impossibly thin, like a child's frame, but

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stretched out. But the head, the head is massive, completely

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disproportioned to the next supporting it.

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Speaker 2: And eyes.

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Speaker 1: And then there are the eyes, those giant black wraparound voids.

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They don't reflect light. They seem to suck the light

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right out of the room. This is the gray, the archetype.

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It is the modern face of the unknown. It is

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the archetype that has haunted pop culture, nightmares and well

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police reports for decades. But here is the question we

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are grappling with today, and it is one that goes

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way beyond just a scooky story. Are these creatures visitors

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from another star system? Are they time travelers coming back

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from our own desolate future, Or this might be the

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most terrifying option, are they biological machines built by something else? Entirely?

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Speaker 2: It is the ultimate roar shock test for the modern age.

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We project our fears of technology, of biology, and of

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the unknown onto that specific image.

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Speaker 1: That's a great way to put it.

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Speaker 2: But when you strip away the movies, the sci fi novels,

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and the memes and you look at the raw data,

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the ancient texts, the military whistleblowers, the medical reports, the

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picture gets much more complicated and frankly, much more disturbing.

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We aren't dealing with a simple invader. We are dealing

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with a phenomenon that seems to be woven into human

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history itself.

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Speaker 1: Exactly, and that is what we are doing today. Welcome

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to thrilling threads. We aren't just scratching the surface. We

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are pulling on the loose threads of one of the

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most enduring mysteries in human history the.

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Speaker 2: Grace, and we have a massive stack of sources to

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get through. I mean, we are looking at everything from

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the archives of ancient astronaut theorists like Eric von Denikin

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and David Childress, the classics, to the heart wrenching testimony

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of military insiders like Sergeant Clifford Stone, all the way

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to detailed medical reports concerning abductees.

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Speaker 1: And just a quick disclaimer before we jump in. Our

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mission today is to look at these reports. Impartially. We

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aren't here to tell you definitively that aliens are landing

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on your lawn or that your neighbor is a reptilian.

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Speaker 2: Not our job.

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Speaker 1: We are here to look at the sheer strangeness of

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the data, whether these are myths, hallucinations, or suppressed realities,

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and react to what is actually in the files. Yeah,

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because honestly, some of the stuff is absolutely wild.

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Speaker 2: It is It challenges the fundamental way we look at

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history and biology. It forces us to asked if we

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are the only intelligent operators on this planet, or if

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we are sharing the space with something much much older.

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Speaker 1: I'm particularly excited, Well, excited might be the wrong word.

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Maybe morbidly curious to get into the specific accounts of

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missing fetuses and the shape shifter theories later on.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that gets heavy.

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Speaker 1: That stuff gave me chills when I was prepping for this. Yeah.

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Takes it out of the realm of lights in the

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sky and puts it right into the most intimate personal

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aspects of human life.

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Speaker 2: It is unsettling. But I think what will really surprise

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you is how we can connect those modern horror stories

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back to six thousand year olds to Marian tablets. We

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are going to draw a line from ancient Mesopotamia straight

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to modern robotics.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's unpack this. Let's start with that ancient blueprint.

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Because usually when people talk about Grays, they think of

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the nineteen forties Roswell, all that jazz. It feels like

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a Cold War phenomenon.

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Speaker 2: It does, but that's a misconception, a big one.

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Speaker 1: So you're saying this goes way way back.

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Speaker 2: Much further back. If you want to understand the Grays,

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you can't start with Kenneth Arnold or the Roswell Crash.

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You have to go to a rock, specifically, the region

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once known as Mesopotamia.

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Speaker 1: The creedle of civilization, precisely.

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Speaker 2: On the east bank of the Tigris River, across from

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the modern city of Mosul lie the ruins of Nineveh.

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In eighteen forty nine, archaeologists led by Austin Henry Laird

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discovered the library of King Usherbonopol. Wow, and we are

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talking about thousands of Sumerian clay tablets that are roughly

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six thousand years old. These contain the earliest known form

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of written records period.

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Speaker 1: And they aren't just receipts for grain and goats, right,

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I mean, I know a lot of ancient writing is

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mundane bureaucracy, but there's something else in.

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Speaker 2: There, far from it. While there are plenty of tax receipts,

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you know, three sheep for the temple.

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Speaker 1: Right, the boring stuff buried in.

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Speaker 2: The Cuneiform script are the creation myths, which when you

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read them, they read less like myths and more like

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historical logs. Interpretations of the accounts engraved on these tablets,

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promoted by scholars and theorists like Zakaria Sitchen, speak of

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an alien race called the Amnunaki.

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Speaker 1: The Annaki, I've heard the name.

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Speaker 2: The texts say they settled in sumer and bred with humans.

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The word Anunaki literally translates to something akin to those

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who from heaven to earth came.

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Speaker 1: That is incredibly specific. It's not spirits of the wind

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or ghosts of the ancestors. It isn't a metaphor for

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the weather. It's people who came from the sky. Right.

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It implies a transit, a physical journey from point A

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to point B precisely.

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Speaker 2: And the texts go further. They speak of gods that

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literally created humans in their image and after their likeness.

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Speaker 1: That sounds very familiar, It.

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Speaker 2: Sounds biblical because the Biblical narratives likely drew from these

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earlier Sumerian sources. But here the Nunaki are described as

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actual beings. They had a hierarchy, they had squabbles, they

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had technology, and interestingly, some interpretations suggest the Anunaki worked

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with or had a relationship with other.

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Speaker 1: Beings, and these other beings.

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Speaker 2: Beings that fit the description of the grays.

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Speaker 1: So the grays might have been the workforce even back then,

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like the innernich with the managers or the royalty, and

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the grays were the staff, the interns.

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Speaker 2: That is the implication. Some theorists, like Mondenikin suggested the

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egig a lower caste of gods mentioned in the texts,

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who supposedly rebelled against the Ununaki because the work was

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too hard a labor dispute, a cosmic labor dispute. A

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theory goes that humans were then created to take over

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the work from the egg. But this other group, the Grays,

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might have been the original biological robots, the original workforce.

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Speaker 1: O wow.

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Speaker 2: And there is a linguistic clue here too. The chief

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deity Anu is linked in these texts to the constellation Orion.

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It is very specific. It's saying these creatures come from

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out there, from that specific set of stars.

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Speaker 1: It really grounds the mythology in a physical reality. It

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makes you wonder if God's was just the only vocabulary

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they had for biological entities. With better text exactly, if

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you took a helicopter back to four thousand BC, you'd

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be a god too.

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Speaker 2: That is the core of the ancient astronaut theory. It

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operates on the idea of cargo cults that primitive cultures

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interpret high technology as magic. A lighter becomes a fire god,

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a radio becomes a talking spirit box.

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Speaker 1: And a spaceship becomes a chariot of the gods.

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Speaker 2: A fiery shield, and if we shift our gaze from

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the Middle East to the American Southwest, we see a

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startlingly similar narrative with the Hope ancestors.

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Speaker 1: The Hope. Yes, this is where we get into the Kachina.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I've always thought of Kachina dolls as just cool art

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or spiritual.

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Speaker 2: Symbols, and they are, but they represent something in Hope culture.

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The Kachina are often thought of by outsiders as dolls

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or costumes, but the word translates.

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Speaker 1: To teacher, a teacher, not a spirit a.

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Speaker 2: Teacher, and the legends are very clear that Kachina were

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not spirits in the metaphysical sense. They were part of

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the physical world. They weren't ghosts.

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Speaker 1: I love the description of their arrival. The sources say

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they descended from the sky in fiery.

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Speaker 2: Shields exactly, fiery shields, non wings of eagle feathers, not

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on clouds, Shields that burned and made noise.

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Speaker 1: That sounds a lot like a vehicle.

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Speaker 2: It sure does. They would touch down, spend time with

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the humans, teach them agriculture, give them knowledge about the stars,

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and then fly back up into the sky on those

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same shields.

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Speaker 1: So they came, they got, they left.

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Speaker 2: And Philip Coppin's observation on this is crucial. He noted

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that the Katinas physically lived with the Hope for a

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time before retreating to the San Francisco Mountains and then

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disappearing completely. It suggests a period of cohabitation.

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Speaker 1: Living side by side, right.

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Speaker 2: This wasn't a fleeting visit. It was a relationship.

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Speaker 1: And when you look at the depictions of these Kachinas

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on canyon walls or in the dolls, they don't look

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like standard humans.

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Speaker 2: No. They are often depicted with large heads, strange eyes,

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and small bodies. The parallel is striking. You have these

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sky gods who are small, powerful, educational, but distinctly otherworldly.

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Speaker 1: So if you showed a drawing of a Kachina to

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a modern UFO enthusiast, they might just say, oh, that's

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a stylized gray they might.

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Speaker 2: It's the consistency that gets me. Different continents thousands of

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years apart, but the core details sky vehicles teaching humans

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strange physical appearance remain the same, like a pattern, a

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very persistent pattern. It makes you feel like history is

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trying to tell us something that we've been ignoring. Because

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it doesn't fit our standard timeline.

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Speaker 1: And that brings us to the physical evidence, or at

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least the alleged physical evidence. We've found things that are

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hard to explain.

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Speaker 2: Hmmm, definitely. You have to look at the elongated humanoid

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skulls found in places like Peru, the Parokos skulls. These

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are famous ancient astronaut theorists like David Childress point to

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these and say, look, these aren't just cranial deformation, because.

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Speaker 1: That was a real practice, right right, binding a baby's

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head to change its shape.

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Speaker 2: It was. But cranial deformation where you bind a baby's

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head changes the shape, but it doesn't change the volume

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of the skull. The brain doesn't get bigger, it just

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gets squished into a cone.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that makes sense exactly.

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Speaker 2: Some of these skulls have a cranial capacity significantly larger

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than a human skull, and they lack the saginal suture,

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the crack on the top of the skull that all humans.

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Speaker 1: Have, so they're structurally different, not just reshaped.

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Speaker 2: Structurally different. Childis and others argue these are half alien

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half human hybrids, the leftovers of that ancient breeding program

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mentioned in the Sumerian texts, which is a.

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Speaker 1: Perfect segue to the modern era, because if these things,

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whatever they are, have been here for thousands of years,

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they didn't just stop visiting when we invented this steam engine,

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not at all. In fact, it seems like they started crashing.

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Speaker 2: Indeed, we have to fast forward to July nineteen forty seven, Roswell,

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New Mexico. This is the grandfather of all crash retrieval stories.

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Speaker 1: I feel like everyone knows the word Roswell, but few

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people know the gritty details of the debris. Everyone talks

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about the alien autopsy video, which we know was a hoax.

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Speaker 2: A total hoax, distracted from the real story.

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Speaker 1: But the actual witness testimony from forty seven is fascinating, right.

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Speaker 2: Aren't just talking about bent metal? Nick Redfern, a prominent researcher,

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highlights the description of the debris found by Rancher mac Brezel.

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It was described as a foil like material, like aluminum

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foil sort of, but it had the properties of memory metal.

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You could crumple it up into a ball in your

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hand and it would uncrumple itself and resume its original

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shape perfectly, without a single crease.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen forty seven. We didn't have materials science like that.

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We barely had plastic that's knit and all. That's modern

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day stuff exactly.

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Speaker 2: And witnesses also described small eyebeams with strange purplish hieroglyphic

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like symbols on them that nobody could identify.

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Speaker 1: So not Russian, not German, something else.

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Speaker 2: Something else. And then of course there were the bodies.

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Reports claimed five bodies were found. They were small, three

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point five to four feet tall, black eyes, slit mouths,

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long arms, with maybe three or five fingers, the classic

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gray a template. They were placed in hermetically sealed coffin

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sized boxes and shipped off to classified research facilities, likely

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write Patterson Air Force Base, and.

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Speaker 1: The military's reaction is what really sells the conspiracy for me.

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Within twenty four hours, they go from issuing a press

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release saying we have a flying saucer.

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Speaker 2: The RAAF the Roswell Army Airfield literally put it in

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the paper. RIAF captures flying saucer on Ranch and Roswell region.

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It's on the record.

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Speaker 1: Whoops, sorry is a weather balloon? I mean, come on,

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these are trained military personnel at an atomic bomber base.

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The five hundred and ninth Bond Group was the only

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nuclear capable squadron in the world at that time. A

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tip of the spear, you're telling me Major Jesse Marcel,

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the intelligence officer for the base, can't tell the difference

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between a rubber balloon with some tinfoil and a spacecraft

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with memory metal in bodies.

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Speaker 2: That incompetence defense is a hard pill to swallow. It

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requires us to believe that the most elite military unit

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in the world was comprised of people who couldn't identify

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a weather balloon target, something they likely launched and tracked

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every week.

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Speaker 1: It's insulting to their intelligence, it is.

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Speaker 2: But if you want to understand the human cost of

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these retrievals, you have to look at Sergeant Clifford Stone.

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Speaker 1: Clifford Stone, this story is heavy. It's not just data,

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it's emotional trauma.

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Speaker 2: It is. Stone was a former Army sergeant. He came

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forward at the National Press Club in May two thousand

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and one. This was part of the Disclosure Project event

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organized by doctor Stephen Greer.

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Speaker 1: A big press conference, a huge one.

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Speaker 2: He claimed he was part of a special unit involved

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in Project Moondust.

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Speaker 1: Project Moondust, it sounds like something from a spy novel, it.

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Speaker 2: Does, but it was real. Officially, Project Moondust was designed

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to recover grounded Soviet satellites or space debris. It was

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a rapid response team to grab Russian tech before the

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Russians could get it.

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Speaker 1: Back, a Cold war cleanup crew exactly.

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Speaker 2: But documents obtained via the Freedom of Information Act explicitly

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mentioned that the program scope included UFOs. The term is

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right there in the declassified paperwork.

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Speaker 1: Wow, so it was an open secret within those circles,

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it seems so.

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Speaker 2: And Stone is testifying, and he's not just talking about

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satellites smell. No. He claimed to have been involved in

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twelve crash retrievals, and he said they were covered bodies.

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But the part that shook everyone was when he said

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some of them were still alive.

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Speaker 1: Still alive.

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Speaker 2: Yes, And he wasn't stoic about this. He wasn't some

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cold military guy, not at all, not at all. When

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he testified before a closed session of Congress the next day,

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he broke down, He wept. He described the emotional burden

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of holding this secret while the government told the world

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there was nothing to it.

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Speaker 1: The gaslighting must have been immense.

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Speaker 2: He talked about seeing these creatures, specifically the living ones,

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and realizing they were sentient. He felt empathy for them,

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He said, he was there.

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Speaker 1: To help that reaction. You can't fake that kind of

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trauma easily. Why would a grown man, a career military sergeant,

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weep before Congress unless the burden was real, unless he

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saw something that fundamentally broke his worldview.

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Speaker 2: It adds a layer of authenticity that is hard to dismiss.

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It's not the behavior of a man looking for fame

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or money. It's the behavior of a man looking for unburdening.

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Speaker 1: Wanted the truth.

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Speaker 2: Out, he needed it out. But Stone said something else,

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something that changes our entire understanding of what the grays

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might be. He described them as having very strange biological anomalies.

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Speaker 1: Here is where it gets really interesting, because usually we

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think of aliens as well, people just from another planet.

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They eat, they sleep, they have organs, they have a society.

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Speaker 2: Right, they're just you know, green or whatever. Yeah, but

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fundamentally biological in the way we understand it.

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Speaker 1: But that's not what he said.

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Speaker 2: No, Stone said, these entities appeared to have very few,

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if any organ systems. They seem to be biological.

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Speaker 1: Robots biological robots.

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Speaker 2: They could walk, think, and function, but they lacked the

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internal complexity of a naturally evolved organism. No digestive systems

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were apparent in the way we understand them, No reproductive organs.

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Speaker 1: An android a biodrone. That is a massive shift.

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Speaker 2: In perspective exactly, and this aligns with a theory discussed

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in a twenty fourteen Motherboard article where philosophers speculated that

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the dominant life in the cosmos isn't biological, it's superintelligent robotics.

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Speaker 1: Which makes so much sense when you think about the

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logistics of interstellar travel.

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Speaker 2: It's the only thing that makes sense.

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Speaker 1: Space is hostile. Biology is squishy and fragile, radiation time,

337
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lack of food. It's a nightmare for a living body.

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Speaker 2: But for a machine, it's manageable. You can turn a

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machine off for a thousand years and turn it back

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on when you arrive. You don't need to pack a lunch.

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Speaker 1: You don't age, you don't get bored.

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Speaker 2: Linda molten Howe and other researchers have pointed this out

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for years. If you are a super advanced civilization and

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you want to explore the universe or interact with a

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primitive species like humans. Do you go yourself? Do you

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risk your own biological body?

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Speaker 1: No way, you send a drone.

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Speaker 2: You send a drone, but not a clunky metal robot

349
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like C three PO. You send something that fits the environment,

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a biodrone, something that can operate subtly.

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Speaker 1: We are already doing this. Look at Hiroshi Ishiguro's i'mnoid robots,

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which are designed to transmit human presence remotely. They look

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startlingly human.

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Speaker 2: They're uncanny. Or look at NASA's Valkyrie robot designed to

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work on Mars. We are moving towards supervised autonomy, where

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a robot can carry out high level instructions on its own.

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Speaker 1: So the grays, the small bodies, the lack of muscle,

358
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the big eyes, they might just be the interface. They're

359
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the suit, the avatar.

360
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Speaker 2: They might be the hardware. This brings us to the

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von Neumann probe theory, the idea of self replicating machines.

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Speaker 1: Oh, that's fascinating.

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Speaker 2: Civilization sends out one probe. That probe lands on an asteroid,

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mines it for resources, builds two copies of itself, and

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sends them out.

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Speaker 1: Exponential growth exactly.

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Speaker 2: One becomes two to two becomes four, four becomes sixteen.

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Within a few million years, which is a blink of

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an eye in cosmic time, you have covered the entire galaxy.

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Speaker 1: And if they're biological robots, they could use organic material

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to replicate.

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Speaker 2: Now you're getting it. Some theorists suggests the grays are

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all from the same mold, featureless, emotionless, identical. They are

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mass produced exploration units.

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Speaker 1: That is actually more terrifying than them being monsters, because

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if they're just tools, who is holding the remote control?

377
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Who is the user behind the screen.

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Speaker 2: That is the one billion dollar question. And there is

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a darker implication to the biological robot theory. People often

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report that abductions involve harvesting genetic material sperm, eggs, DNA.

381
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Speaker 1: We hear about the exams all the time. It's a

382
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core part of the phenomena.

383
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Speaker 2: If the grays are self replicating biological machines, they might

384
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not be harvesting that material to reproduce in a sexual sense.

385
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They might be harvesting it as raw material to build

386
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more copies of themselves, using biological matter from our planet

387
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as the feedstock.

388
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Speaker 1: Oh wow, so we are just spare parts. We are

389
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the resource depot, like going to home depot for lumber.

390
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Speaker 2: In that scenario, Yes, it shifts the narrative from interstellar

391
00:18:51,799 --> 00:18:57,000
romance or scientific curiosity to industrial manufacturing. We are a

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resource to be mined.

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Speaker 1: That is a chilling thought. Yeah. But speaking of harvesting,

394
00:19:02,559 --> 00:19:04,920
we need to talk about the people who say this

395
00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:08,319
has happened to them, the abductees, because this isn't just

396
00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:11,039
theoretical for them. This is trauma.

397
00:19:11,279 --> 00:19:14,599
Speaker 2: No, it's visceral, and it starts really with Betty and

398
00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:16,440
Barney Hill in nineteen sixty one.

399
00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:19,000
Speaker 1: The og abduction story, the one that put it on

400
00:19:19,039 --> 00:19:19,400
the map.

401
00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:21,599
Speaker 2: It set the standard, It laid the blueprint for almost

402
00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:24,400
every case that followed. They're driving through the White Mountains

403
00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:26,960
in New Hampshire. They see a bright light a craft

404
00:19:27,079 --> 00:19:30,000
and then missing time, missing time two hours gone, just

405
00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:32,359
poof vanished from their memory.

406
00:19:32,079 --> 00:19:35,000
Speaker 1: And under hypnosis with doctor Benjamin Simon, the details that

407
00:19:35,079 --> 00:19:36,880
came out were incredibly clinical.

408
00:19:37,039 --> 00:19:39,599
Speaker 2: Yes, they were separated, they were taken aboard a craft.

409
00:19:39,839 --> 00:19:43,000
Betty described a needle being inserted into her navel, which

410
00:19:43,039 --> 00:19:45,000
she was told was a pregnancy test.

411
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Speaker 1: Which is strange because she wasn't pregnant.

412
00:19:47,519 --> 00:19:50,279
Speaker 2: Right, It's almost like they were learning, practicing, or just

413
00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:55,359
collecting data on human anatomy. Barney described sperm samples being taken.

414
00:19:55,759 --> 00:20:00,799
The beings they described fit the classic gray archetype lee bodies,

415
00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:02,880
large heads, wrap around eyes.

416
00:20:03,039 --> 00:20:05,799
Speaker 1: It's the medical nature of it that's so disturbing. It's

417
00:20:05,839 --> 00:20:08,839
not an attack, it's an exam, like tagging a bear

418
00:20:08,839 --> 00:20:09,440
in the wild.

419
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Speaker 2: That's the perfect analogy.

420
00:20:10,799 --> 00:20:13,480
Speaker 1: There's no malice, but there's no consent either. You're just

421
00:20:13,519 --> 00:20:14,160
a specimen.

422
00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:18,720
Speaker 2: And that pattern repeats again and again. To Kim Carlsburg,

423
00:20:18,759 --> 00:20:22,160
a commercial photographer, in nineteen eighty eight in Pacific Palisades,

424
00:20:22,279 --> 00:20:25,640
a populated area, not the middle of nowhere, she wakes.

425
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Speaker 1: Up paralyzed in her own bed, in.

426
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Speaker 2: Her own bed, paralyzed, naked, surrounded by beings.

427
00:20:31,519 --> 00:20:33,279
Speaker 1: She was specific about their color, right, Yeah, you said

428
00:20:33,279 --> 00:20:34,359
they were off white, not just.

429
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Speaker 2: Gray, correct, which implies maybe a different model or cast.

430
00:20:38,039 --> 00:20:40,920
And she described the horror of being used for DNA.

431
00:20:41,079 --> 00:20:43,839
She believed they were combining her eggs with sperm to

432
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create hybrid.

433
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Speaker 1: Children, and this wasn't a one time thing for her.

434
00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,359
Speaker 2: No. She described it being implanted with a fetus, carrying

435
00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:51,200
it for a few months, and then having it removed

436
00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:52,640
during another abduction event.

437
00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:54,880
Speaker 1: That brings us to the case that I found the

438
00:20:54,880 --> 00:21:00,000
most disturbing, the Brett Oldham and Dianne Swanson case, Las Vegas,

439
00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:02,720
nineteen eighty seven. This one really kept me up.

440
00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:06,799
Speaker 2: This is the missing fetus phenomenon in its starkest form.

441
00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:09,519
They wake up to a loud bang, They see grays

442
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in their home. They are taken. Diane is placed on

443
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a table in a gynecological position.

444
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Speaker 1: And Brett is forced to watch.

445
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Speaker 2: He can see her, he can hear her screaming, but

446
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he's paralyzed. He's helpless.

447
00:21:21,039 --> 00:21:24,240
Speaker 1: And the context here is vital. Yeah, she was pregnant

448
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in real life, four months a long.

449
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Speaker 2: Yes, a confirmed pregnancy. And the next morning they wake

450
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up and there is blood in the bed. They go

451
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to the doctor, fearing a miscarriage, of course, but the

452
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doctor is baffled. He says, the womb has been clean,

453
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there is no tissue, no fetus. It's as if she

454
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was never pregnant, despite the physical signs of having been

455
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pregnant just days before.

456
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Speaker 1: And we have expert insight on this, right, doctor Stephen,

457
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:47,200
you we do.

458
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:49,640
Speaker 2: Doctor U notes that a fetus at three or four

459
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months has a crown to rump length of about five

460
00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:54,559
or six centimeters. It's the size of a baseball. It

461
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has developing bones.

462
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Speaker 1: It's not just a clump of cells, not at all.

463
00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:01,160
Speaker 2: You cannot just absorb that back into the body overnight

464
00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:03,880
without a massive passage of tissue. It doesn't just.

465
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Speaker 1: Vanish unless it was surgically extracted.

466
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Speaker 2: Cleanly, precisely. And for Brett Oldham, the trauma didn't end there.

467
00:22:09,759 --> 00:22:12,319
Three years later, he claims he was taken again.

468
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Speaker 1: And this is where it gets even more twisted.

469
00:22:14,319 --> 00:22:17,200
Speaker 2: He was taken again and he was introduced to a

470
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hybrid child. He described a little girl with large eyes,

471
00:22:22,559 --> 00:22:26,440
and he felt an immediate, intense paternal bond with this child.

472
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:27,799
He knew it was his.

473
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:32,799
Speaker 1: That breaks my heart. It's so manipulative. It's psychological torture

474
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:36,960
mixed with advanced science to show apparent the child they lost.

475
00:22:37,519 --> 00:22:40,200
Speaker 2: But notice the demeanor of the aliens in these stories.

476
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:43,119
They aren't described as sadistic, they aren't cackling with glee.

477
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:47,200
They are described as efficient scientists, clinicians.

478
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:49,960
Speaker 1: Rights observing the bond, recording the data, taking.

479
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:53,799
Speaker 2: Notes, which almost makes it worse. We are laborats to them.

480
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:55,640
You don't hate the labratt You don't want to hurt

481
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,680
it unnecessarily, but you don't ask for its permission either. No,

482
00:22:58,799 --> 00:23:01,599
you don't exactly, And this leads us to the bigger question,

483
00:23:01,839 --> 00:23:04,279
why what is the agenda here? This is where we

484
00:23:04,319 --> 00:23:05,559
get into the Watchers.

485
00:23:05,839 --> 00:23:09,759
Speaker 1: Raymond Fowler's investigation into the Betty andreas In case brought

486
00:23:09,759 --> 00:23:11,680
this term up, the Watchers.

487
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:13,480
Speaker 2: It's a term that goes back to the Book of

488
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,599
Enoch and biblical texts. The Watchers were angels who came

489
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:18,960
to Earth to human wives and created.

490
00:23:18,559 --> 00:23:20,559
Speaker 1: The Nephilim, the giants of old.

491
00:23:20,519 --> 00:23:23,920
Speaker 2: Right, But in the context of abduction, these entities seem

492
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:27,400
focused on two things genetics and technology.

493
00:23:27,599 --> 00:23:32,279
Speaker 1: So what's the endgame? Why interbreed? If they are super advanced,

494
00:23:32,759 --> 00:23:34,839
why do they need our primitive DNA.

495
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:37,960
Speaker 2: It's a great question. There are a few competing theories.

496
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:41,160
Theory A is the upgrade theory. They are tweaking our

497
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,240
DNA to help us climb the evolutionary ladder. We are

498
00:23:44,279 --> 00:23:46,200
the project and they are the managers.

499
00:23:46,279 --> 00:23:48,759
Speaker 1: So they're helping us in a very invasive way.

500
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,680
Speaker 2: Maybe they see us heading for self destruction, nuclear war,

501
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,160
climate change and are trying to wire us to be

502
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,799
smarter or more peaceful. A forced evolution.

503
00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:00,559
Speaker 1: Okay, that's the benevolent or at least paternalistic view. Theory B.

504
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:05,839
Speaker 2: Theory B is desperate. David Wilcox suggests that these extraterrestrial

505
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:10,039
humans or human like aliens are dying. Their genetic line

506
00:24:10,079 --> 00:24:13,279
is degrading. Maybe they've been cloning themselves for too long

507
00:24:13,279 --> 00:24:15,759
and the errors are piling up, like making a photocopy

508
00:24:15,759 --> 00:24:19,319
of a photocopy of a photocopy. Eventually the image is

509
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:20,519
too blurry to use.

510
00:24:20,799 --> 00:24:22,759
Speaker 1: Got it, genetic degradation.

511
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:27,279
Speaker 2: So they're coming here to harvest our robust, diverse DNA

512
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:29,720
to save themselves. It's a matter of life and death

513
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:30,079
for them.

514
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,559
Speaker 1: So we are the donor bank. We're the fresh stock

515
00:24:32,759 --> 00:24:35,000
where the original hard drive they need to reboot from.

516
00:24:35,079 --> 00:24:38,319
Speaker 2: Yes, and then there's theory C, which George Norri brings

517
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:42,079
up often the dark question are they wiping us out?

518
00:24:42,559 --> 00:24:43,759
Is this a replacement progres?

519
00:24:43,759 --> 00:24:44,400
Speaker 1: Oh sark?

520
00:24:44,599 --> 00:24:47,440
Speaker 2: Are they creating a hybrid race that is smarter, stronger,

521
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:49,559
and more controllable to take over the planet once we

522
00:24:49,599 --> 00:24:51,200
are gone? A slow motion invasion?

523
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 1: Ken Storch calls us the missing link, suggesting our evolution

524
00:24:54,599 --> 00:24:56,960
was kickstarted by them eons ago, and now they're just

525
00:24:57,039 --> 00:24:58,400
returning to update the software.

526
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 2: It's a fascinating concept. We're an ongoing experiment and aerial

527
00:25:01,519 --> 00:25:06,200
bark sawdoc adds another layer of complexity, factional warfare.

528
00:25:05,799 --> 00:25:07,759
Speaker 1: Meaning they aren't all on the same team.

529
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:11,640
Speaker 2: Exactly the idea that the Watchers aren't a monolith. They

530
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,839
fight amongst themselves and we are just ponds in their

531
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:18,920
civil wars. They manipulate nations, they start conflicts, all to

532
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,920
serve their own agendas. One faction might want to save us,

533
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:23,680
another might want to harvest us.

534
00:25:23,599 --> 00:25:27,319
Speaker 1: Which would explain why some abduction experiences are terrifying and

535
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:29,720
others are almost spiritual.

536
00:25:30,039 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 2: It could explain the contradictions and the data were caught

537
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:34,839
in the middle of a cosmic cold war.

538
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:37,839
Speaker 1: It makes us feel very small, like we are just

539
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:40,880
pieces on a chessboard that stretches across the galaxy. But

540
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,119
let's seem out even further. Where are they coming from.

541
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,000
We talked about oryan earlier, but there's a theory that

542
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:50,359
they might be from right next door Mars Mars, the

543
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:51,000
red planet.

544
00:25:51,079 --> 00:25:53,680
Speaker 2: The Mars theory is compelling because it's so close. We

545
00:25:53,759 --> 00:25:57,799
know Mars has water NASA's Phoenix Land or confirmed ice

546
00:25:57,839 --> 00:26:00,119
under the soil we know. It has a history that

547
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:03,039
might have supported life billions of years ago. It had

548
00:26:03,039 --> 00:26:04,359
an atmosphere, It had.

549
00:26:04,319 --> 00:26:06,839
Speaker 1: Oceans, and people in the nineteenth century were convinced they

550
00:26:06,839 --> 00:26:07,519
saw canals.

551
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:07,920
Speaker 2: Yeah.

552
00:26:08,079 --> 00:26:10,359
Speaker 1: Price of All Lull drew these elaborate maps of them.

553
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 2: Which turned out to be optical illusions, but the idea stuck.

554
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:18,279
Eric Vondanakin and others suggest a catastrophe scenario. Mars had

555
00:26:18,319 --> 00:26:22,279
a civilization war or environmental collapse destroyed the.

556
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,039
Speaker 1: Atmosphere, and the survivors had two.

557
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:28,799
Speaker 2: Choices, go underground or flee to the nearest habitable rock Earth.

558
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:31,480
Speaker 1: Jason Martel points out that if there is life on

559
00:26:31,519 --> 00:26:35,160
Mars today, it would have to be subterranean to survive

560
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:36,799
the radiation in cold.

561
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:40,759
Speaker 2: And Interestingly, Grays are often associated with underground bases here

562
00:26:40,799 --> 00:26:44,519
on Earth Dulce Base Area fifty one. Maybe they are

563
00:26:44,599 --> 00:26:47,920
just cave dwellers by necessity because their home world forced

564
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:48,720
them underground.

565
00:26:48,799 --> 00:26:51,559
Speaker 1: It fits the biology too large eyes for low light

566
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:55,119
environments slight frames because gravity on Mars is lower than Earth's,

567
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:56,880
so they wouldn't need as much muscle mass.

568
00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:58,759
Speaker 2: It all lines up in a way. But then there's

569
00:26:58,799 --> 00:27:01,039
a theory that blows my mind every time I think about.

570
00:27:00,839 --> 00:27:02,680
Speaker 1: It, the time traveler hypothesis.

571
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:05,880
Speaker 2: This is the one that really resonates with the gray physiology.

572
00:27:06,079 --> 00:27:09,559
Think about human evolution. As we rely more on technology,

573
00:27:09,599 --> 00:27:12,640
our muscles atrophy. We don't need to hunt or fight.

574
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:14,559
Speaker 1: Physically, we sit at desks all day.

575
00:27:14,839 --> 00:27:18,759
Speaker 2: As we process more information, our brains and skulls get larger.

576
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:22,240
We lose body hair because we have climate control. We

577
00:27:22,279 --> 00:27:25,559
lose our aggressive instincts, or at least our physical capacity

578
00:27:25,599 --> 00:27:26,200
for violence.

579
00:27:26,319 --> 00:27:29,920
Speaker 1: So if you fast forward human evolution by fifty thousand years,

580
00:27:30,839 --> 00:27:32,799
do you get a gray.

581
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 2: Many anthropologists and theorists think so. The argument is that

582
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:40,640
the grays are us. They are humans from a desolate future.

583
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:44,119
Maybe we ruin the planet. Maybe we lost our ability

584
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,640
to reproduce naturally due to radiation or genetic tinkering. So

585
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,720
they are coming back to fix it, or to harvest

586
00:27:50,799 --> 00:27:53,759
the genetic material they lost. They are coming back to

587
00:27:53,799 --> 00:27:57,160
the source code us to repair their own broken biology.

588
00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:59,920
It's a last ditch effort to save their species, which

589
00:27:59,920 --> 00:28:00,839
is our species.

590
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,160
Speaker 1: That puts the abduction phenomenon in a whole new light.

591
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:05,759
They aren't stealing from a different species. They are taking

592
00:28:05,759 --> 00:28:07,240
samples from their own ancestors.

593
00:28:07,279 --> 00:28:08,680
Speaker 2: It's a temporal medical mission.

594
00:28:08,799 --> 00:28:11,279
Speaker 1: It explains why they can breathe our air, why they

595
00:28:11,279 --> 00:28:14,720
are anatomically humanoid, why they can interbreed with us, why

596
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,000
they are so interested in our nuclear capabilities.

597
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,519
Speaker 2: Exactly. Maybe they are trying to prevent the event that

598
00:28:20,599 --> 00:28:23,559
destroyed their world. They are monitoring the turning point in

599
00:28:23,599 --> 00:28:24,519
their own history.

600
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 1: It's tragic, really, a ghost from Christmas future trying to

601
00:28:28,279 --> 00:28:29,680
warn Ebenezer Scrooge.

602
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 2: A very strange, silent ghost. But we can't talk about

603
00:28:33,079 --> 00:28:35,920
high strangeness without mentioning the shape shifters.

604
00:28:36,279 --> 00:28:40,119
Speaker 1: Travis Walton nineteen seventy five, Fire in the Sky. His

605
00:28:40,279 --> 00:28:43,039
case is famous for the violent energy being that hit him,

606
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,200
which was unlike the clinical abductions we.

607
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,039
Speaker 2: Discussed, totally different. It felt like an accident. But the

608
00:28:48,079 --> 00:28:51,279
detail that often gets overlooked is what happened inside the craft.

609
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:53,640
Speaker 1: He woke up, saw Gray's.

610
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 2: Panicked freaked out, started fighting, and.

611
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 1: Then he saw human looking aliens who calmed him down.

612
00:28:58,519 --> 00:29:04,759
Speaker 2: Yes, Nordic type, tall, blonde, blue eyed, beautiful, almost angelic beings.

613
00:29:04,839 --> 00:29:07,599
Speaker 1: The twist is were they different species or was it

614
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:08,000
a mask?

615
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 2: Nick Pope and Michael Sala suggest these weren't different species,

616
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,880
but screen memories or sheep shifting technology, the idea that

617
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,039
they can project an imaged calm the subject.

618
00:29:17,119 --> 00:29:18,839
Speaker 1: Don't be afraid, we look just like.

619
00:29:18,839 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 2: You, while in reality you're looking at something else entirely.

620
00:29:22,599 --> 00:29:26,480
It's the ultimate infiltration, which brings us to that disturbing

621
00:29:26,519 --> 00:29:28,640
public policy polling stat that.

622
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 1: Twelve million Americans believe shape shifting lizards or aliens are

623
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:34,319
in positions of power.

624
00:29:34,519 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 2: It sounds crazy, but you can connect this to ancient

625
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:41,319
myths of God's changing shape. Zeus became a swan, Hindu

626
00:29:41,359 --> 00:29:45,200
deities took on different forms. It's an old, old idea.

627
00:29:45,319 --> 00:29:47,839
Speaker 1: It creates a sense of total paranoia. If they can

628
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:51,039
look like us, we are never safe. Anyone could be

629
00:29:51,079 --> 00:29:51,519
one of them.

630
00:29:51,599 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 2: So what does this all mean? We have looked at

631
00:29:53,759 --> 00:29:57,799
the ancient tablets, the crash saucers, the robots, the stolen fetuses,

632
00:29:58,039 --> 00:29:59,920
and the time travelers. It's a lot.

633
00:30:00,079 --> 00:30:03,079
Speaker 1: It's a huge, contradictory, terrifying picture.

634
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:05,079
Speaker 2: It paints a picture of a reality that is far

635
00:30:05,119 --> 00:30:07,960
more crowded and complex than we want to admit. Whether

636
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:12,240
they are ancient gods returning biological drones harvesting resources, or

637
00:30:12,279 --> 00:30:15,480
our own great grandchildren trying to save themselves. The evidence

638
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:16,960
suggests we are being watched, and.

639
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,799
Speaker 1: The scary part is the supervised autonomy you mentioned. If

640
00:30:19,799 --> 00:30:22,359
the Grays are just the worker bees, the drones, we

641
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,720
have yet to meet the queen, We have yet to

642
00:30:24,759 --> 00:30:27,279
meet the intelligence that is actually pulling the strings.

643
00:30:27,599 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 2: That is the unknown variable, and it is the one

644
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:32,759
that keeps me up at night. Are the Grays the

645
00:30:32,799 --> 00:30:35,880
real visitors or are they just the delivery drones that

646
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:37,480
drop the package on your doorstep.

647
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:39,799
Speaker 1: I want to leave you with a provocative thought, something

648
00:30:39,839 --> 00:30:44,720
to really chew on. If the time traveler theory is true,

649
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:47,880
if the Grays really are us from a destroyed future

650
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:52,319
coming back to harvest DNA to save themselves, do we

651
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:53,680
have the right to stop them?

652
00:30:53,799 --> 00:30:53,960
Speaker 2: Oh?

653
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 1: Wow? Are we obligated to help them survive? Or are

654
00:30:57,279 --> 00:30:59,640
we just lab rats in a timeline we don't understand

655
00:30:59,759 --> 00:30:59,920
it is?

656
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 2: That's the ultimate moral paradox. Do you sacrifice the present

657
00:31:03,519 --> 00:31:05,440
to save the future that is your own?

658
00:31:05,759 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 1: I want to hear from you, what do you think

659
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,559
which theory makes the most sense. Have you ever lost

660
00:31:10,599 --> 00:31:13,079
time or seen the light you couldn't explain. Tell us

661
00:31:13,119 --> 00:31:15,279
your story in the comments. We read everything, Be.

662
00:31:15,319 --> 00:31:17,480
Speaker 2: Curious, and keep watching the skies.

663
00:31:17,599 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to Thrilling Threads.