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<v Speaker 1>Did Aaron ask for this? Yeah, all right, that's what

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<v Speaker 1>I thought. Indeed, we've got to giveaway. Do we need

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<v Speaker 1>to talk about coming up a little bit? We won't

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<v Speaker 1>do that now because it would be in poor taste.

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<v Speaker 1>I'll explain later. Aaron Falk, Saltlet Tribune, Well played, sir,

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<v Speaker 1>Happy Thursday, Hey.

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<v Speaker 2>Happy Thursday. Spent. I gotta I gotta say really quick. Uh,

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<v Speaker 2>one of the oldest, the oldest I've ever felt in

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<v Speaker 2>a sports world. I thought. I thought was watching Chipper

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<v Speaker 2>Jones retire someone that I grew up loving, and I'm

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<v Speaker 2>watching this at a bar and it's his last game.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm like, I feel, I feel something. But I'll say,

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<v Speaker 2>listening to the commercial breaks and listening to Emma Smith

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<v Speaker 2>on behalf of Depends drop me to my knee. Just now,

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<v Speaker 2>I feel a billion.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh man, I needed that today. Thank you, sir. That

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<v Speaker 1>combined with the bump man, you're coming in off the top,

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<v Speaker 1>rub coming in hot man. I appreciate the time. All right, Aaron,

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<v Speaker 1>Let's start with the very eventful Saturday night in Salt

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<v Speaker 1>Lake City last Saturday, as Brigham Young rolled up to

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<v Speaker 1>Salt Lake and went down to Provo with a win.

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<v Speaker 1>In their back pocket. They're now undefeated. You know what,

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<v Speaker 1>let's just get right to the good stuff. The holding

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<v Speaker 1>call has been hotly debated. I don't think it's something

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<v Speaker 1>that can be summarized with one reductive statement, like black

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<v Speaker 1>or white in a vacuum. Yes, letter of the law.

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<v Speaker 1>That is a foul, and b y U fans will

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<v Speaker 1>simply latch onto that. And that's not wrong. I want

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<v Speaker 1>to be clear, I'm not saying that it is, but

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<v Speaker 1>it is a little bit more complex and nuanced. I

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<v Speaker 1>thought Joel Klatt did a good job of equating it

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<v Speaker 1>to a strike zone in baseball, where when the yump

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<v Speaker 1>establishes what he's going to call that game, it kind

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<v Speaker 1>of mandates you to adjust your swing to that strike zone.

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<v Speaker 1>But what was your takeaway from the holding call heard

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<v Speaker 1>around the world that Saturday night.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean I think I'm in that camp of

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<v Speaker 2>you know, you look at you look at it, and

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<v Speaker 2>you see, you know, you read the rule and you see,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, once once as past the point of being

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<v Speaker 2>blocked and you see an arm extended like that, you

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<v Speaker 2>put yourself in position to have that that flag thrown

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<v Speaker 2>right like you know, Well, one day we can talk

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<v Speaker 2>about the appearance of evil and the need to avoid it. Right,

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<v Speaker 2>But when you get into that situation, if if in fact,

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<v Speaker 2>and I'm not smart enough nor did I pay close

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<v Speaker 2>enough attention to know truly how how many times or

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<v Speaker 2>that that play happened and wasn't called or not. But

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<v Speaker 2>clearly Kyle whitting Anfield's that that is a situation that

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<v Speaker 2>they were allowed to get away with, not just in

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<v Speaker 2>this game, but you know, in sort of Big twelve

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<v Speaker 2>play throughout the year. He said, there's there is a

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<v Speaker 2>difference between pac full officiating and Big Fuell officiating in

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<v Speaker 2>that regard. And to do that in a moment where

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<v Speaker 2>you know the game is on the line, you're you're

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<v Speaker 2>the largest crowded stadium history is celebrating and you have

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<v Speaker 2>to do it again, That's that is gutting. So I

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<v Speaker 2>understand the frustration, and I understand the gloating on the

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<v Speaker 2>other side. I mean, man, it is It's truly one

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<v Speaker 2>of those things where it goes your way and you

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<v Speaker 2>know you are we are a big believer in backing

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<v Speaker 2>the referees and it doesn't and we hate them all.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's it is truly just dependent on your

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<v Speaker 2>personal bias at this.

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<v Speaker 1>Point, yeah, one hundred percent, and that will color the

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<v Speaker 1>judgment of fans for sure. I try to exist in

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<v Speaker 1>the space of being a little bit agnostic when it

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<v Speaker 1>comes to doing the show, so I can accurately do

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<v Speaker 1>the job, and I like you, I get the frustration

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<v Speaker 1>of the utes, and I get the elation of the

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<v Speaker 1>cougars for sure. But let's move over to what happened

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<v Speaker 1>Aaron after the game. I was there, saw you and

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<v Speaker 1>our guy ck up in the press box, and went down,

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<v Speaker 1>watched the rest of the game on the sideline and

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<v Speaker 1>went and said hello to Coladi and a Rod everybody

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<v Speaker 1>after the game, offer my congratulations, and then kind of

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<v Speaker 1>took the scene in dodging water bottles as I was

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<v Speaker 1>right in front of the must a lot of water

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<v Speaker 1>bottles being thrown, And as I'm making my way home

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<v Speaker 1>walking across campus, my phone just blows up and all

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<v Speaker 1>the messages were did you hear what Mark Carlan just said?

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<v Speaker 1>And I said, now I'm walking home, And so somebody

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<v Speaker 1>sent me the link to the social video and I

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<v Speaker 1>watched it and I went, oh, no, he is going

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<v Speaker 1>to be in so much trouble based off of what

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<v Speaker 1>appears to be a pretty no nonsense guy, and brett

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<v Speaker 1>Or Mark the commissioner of the Big Twelve, And I actually,

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<v Speaker 1>Aaron thought forty k and a public reprimand was a

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<v Speaker 1>good outcome when you question the integrity of the league

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<v Speaker 1>and you use terms like they stole it from us.

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<v Speaker 1>I thought I'd wake up to a voice recording of

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<v Speaker 1>Mark Harlan asking brett Or Mark to find him two

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<v Speaker 1>more points. So it was not a great look for

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<v Speaker 1>the ad who, in my experience, is a measured smart guy.

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<v Speaker 1>I wonder what your takeaways were.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean I was sitting in the you know,

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<v Speaker 2>in the press box high above the field. Audio is

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<v Speaker 2>pumping in all and so I'm not in that room.

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<v Speaker 2>All of a sudden, you just hear the words I've

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<v Speaker 2>been an athletic reretor for twelve years, and my fingers

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<v Speaker 2>took over and I'm just writing this quote down as

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<v Speaker 2>fast as possible because I know what's coming is going

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<v Speaker 2>to be something extremely interesting.

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<v Speaker 1>Right.

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<v Speaker 2>I think this was a stunner, And you know, you

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<v Speaker 2>you look around and there are just so many takes

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<v Speaker 2>where it's like I've never I have not seen an

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<v Speaker 2>athlete di record do this. You know, it's just it's

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<v Speaker 2>so rare, and I think you're you're spot on to

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<v Speaker 2>use those where it's stolen it is those are it's

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<v Speaker 2>just inflammatory.

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<v Speaker 1>And uh.

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<v Speaker 2>The thing that I'm still scratching my head about a

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<v Speaker 2>little bit and wondering, you know what brett yor Mark

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<v Speaker 2>really feels about all this is the is that line.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, we were happy to be in the Big

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<v Speaker 2>twelve and tonight we're not. And and what whatever you

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<v Speaker 2>want to say, We've we've heard for a decade how

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<v Speaker 2>bad Pact twelve officiating was right and and now you know,

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<v Speaker 2>if we want to talk about maybe maybe this is

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<v Speaker 2>inconsistent Big twelve officiating. But this is a to me,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm I'm still scratching my head that this is a

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<v Speaker 2>Big twelve problem in the eyes of Mark Harlan and

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<v Speaker 2>what that actually means. And I'm trying to unpack that,

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<v Speaker 2>and I'm not sure I have my answer yet. But

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<v Speaker 2>I can see that line in particular, doing a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of public relations damage for the university, and it spans

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<v Speaker 2>at least in truck stop country, and it is a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of a lot of public relations.

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<v Speaker 1>Damage sure, and it also does not help the narrative

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<v Speaker 1>and I don't live online, but I certainly am a

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<v Speaker 1>human who does this for a living, So you have

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<v Speaker 1>to stay plugged in to some extent. And I think

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<v Speaker 1>it's very fair to say that several members of the

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<v Speaker 1>Utah fan base were very how shall I say, confidence

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<v Speaker 1>about year one of the Big Twelve, and probably with

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<v Speaker 1>merit because this team was picked to win the conference

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<v Speaker 1>by Vegas and the media and others. But that brought

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of pushback from other people in the conference

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<v Speaker 1>about the narrative that you think you're too good for us,

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<v Speaker 1>you think you should be in the Big Ten, but

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<v Speaker 1>you're not, and this is a necessary home for Utah

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<v Speaker 1>until the next shift happens. And then when Mark says

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<v Speaker 1>something like that, I just think it furthers the narrative

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<v Speaker 1>that is permeating throughout the Big Twelve that Utah thinks

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<v Speaker 1>they're too good for that conference. And you add to

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<v Speaker 1>the fact they have one conference win. It's just, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the Utah right now taking someone else in that direction.

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<v Speaker 1>What are your thoughts on that?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean no doubt, and I guess to go

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<v Speaker 2>back to it, and you know, I think you could

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<v Speaker 2>you could break this down in a in a level

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<v Speaker 2>of conspiracy theory, and we tried to reach out to UH,

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<v Speaker 2>to mister Harlan to get some some more information on

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<v Speaker 2>what he meant here. You know, I think maybe maybe

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<v Speaker 2>you can get some more. But I mean, if it's

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<v Speaker 2>a big twelve issue, is it refereeing consistency or is

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<v Speaker 2>it a big twelve issue that a conference leading team

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<v Speaker 2>is getting set up better to be to be better

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<v Speaker 2>positioned for a college football playoff spot. I mean, I

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<v Speaker 2>can see how some conspiracy theorists go down a very

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<v Speaker 2>deep and scary rap, and that's where I'm really really

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<v Speaker 2>like questioning what that means.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's a really good point, actually really good angle

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<v Speaker 1>to take, because you just try to take him at

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<v Speaker 1>his word and then give him the benefit of the doubt,

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<v Speaker 1>because we certainly all deserve that. And I've had emotional

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<v Speaker 1>moments in my life where I'd very much like a

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<v Speaker 1>do over. I want to ask you one more thing

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<v Speaker 1>about this, though, because I honestly erin from the minute

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<v Speaker 1>I heard it Saturday night, I have just been thinking

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<v Speaker 1>about his why why would you do that? You didn't

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<v Speaker 1>have to, ads don't do that? Is it showing his

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<v Speaker 1>head coach that he has his back. Is it really

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<v Speaker 1>believing to your point that something doesn't smell right here?

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<v Speaker 1>Like if you're a smart guy, like if I guess

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<v Speaker 1>the simplest explanation emotional after loss five straight l's heat

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<v Speaker 1>of the moment, robbery game stuff from you know, the

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<v Speaker 1>scale of simply emotional to all the way on the

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<v Speaker 1>other side of maybe something's afoot here. Why do you

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<v Speaker 1>think he decided to take that approach?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, you know, I and so I'll walk

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<v Speaker 2>it back and be you know, more more measured now here.

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<v Speaker 2>But I think you the most likely outcome in any

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<v Speaker 2>in any situation is we are emotional beings. This guy

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<v Speaker 2>was pissed off, right and and that's the only reason

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<v Speaker 2>that you see him walking onto the field in in

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<v Speaker 2>the run of play, uh and and drawing that penalty.

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<v Speaker 2>This is why you you know, you see him, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>sometime after having at least enough time to pause and

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<v Speaker 2>and and maybe have somebody say don't do this, to

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<v Speaker 2>still be that fired up. I mean, he was clearly, clearly,

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<v Speaker 2>clearly angry. I think that's the most likely you know,

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<v Speaker 2>are we are we just sending a message or are

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<v Speaker 2>we just venting that? This has been a very tough

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<v Speaker 2>year and in this moment when you think you have

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<v Speaker 2>a chance to you know, save your season a little bit,

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<v Speaker 2>that everything just boils over and that that's probably the

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<v Speaker 2>most likely outcome. I don't know that it's as conspiracy

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<v Speaker 2>conspiratorialism as maybe it could be, but nevertheless, like wow,

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<v Speaker 2>like a few people could have stopped him, he could

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<v Speaker 2>have stopped himself, and here we are.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah yeah, and uh, you know, uh, the news cycle

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<v Speaker 1>will move on and people will hone in on something else.

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<v Speaker 1>I do think in ten years there and this will

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<v Speaker 1>be known as the Mark Carlan game. You know, we

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<v Speaker 1>we we often label these games with a beck to Harlen,

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<v Speaker 1>a fourth and eighteen, a Brandon Burton block, a Brett Ratliffe. Crazy.

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<v Speaker 1>This in ten years has to be the Mark Carlin Knight,

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't it.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh no, no doubt about it. I mean, and and

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<v Speaker 2>that is you know, I'll say this, We can will

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<v Speaker 2>break this down with a with a level of of

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<v Speaker 2>of seriousness and scrutiny as we should right now. And

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<v Speaker 2>it is absolutely the thing that becomes lore that that

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<v Speaker 2>makes uh college football something that we that we care

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<v Speaker 2>about and and focus on because there are moments like

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<v Speaker 2>this there are, there are emotions like this there. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>the stakes are this high in Mark Carland's mind even

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<v Speaker 2>in a season like that, And that's why ultimately weak care,

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<v Speaker 2>why fans care, why anybody's in that stadium.

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<v Speaker 1>What is your I don't know. I was going to say,

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<v Speaker 1>what's your favorite part of the off field dynamic of

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<v Speaker 1>that week? But what are what are some of the

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<v Speaker 1>things you're You're a local, you're a resident. You are

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<v Speaker 1>an aggie, not a cougar or a ute. So you're

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<v Speaker 1>a bit agnostic in a way where I think you'd

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<v Speaker 1>have a measured approach to the question, because the off

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<v Speaker 1>field stuff, to me has always been so fascinating when

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<v Speaker 1>it comes to Utah BYU football specifically and the week

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<v Speaker 1>leading up and then the reaction afterwards, because you've got

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<v Speaker 1>a BYU fan base that so badly wants the moral

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<v Speaker 1>high ground all the time that after the game you're

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<v Speaker 1>getting tweets about send me every video of a youthe

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<v Speaker 1>fan that said anything bad to you, and we'll post

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<v Speaker 1>it and we'll call them out. And then you've got

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<v Speaker 1>like the other side of youth fans that want to

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<v Speaker 1>call out the piousness and the judgmental holier than that

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<v Speaker 1>attitude of the BYU fans and we're all this really weird,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, extended family that probably has a lot of dysfunction.

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<v Speaker 1>And I do think at the end of the day

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<v Speaker 1>there's respect and love between the coaching staffs and the programs.

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<v Speaker 1>But what are some of the elements about this week

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<v Speaker 1>and this thing off the field that stand out most

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<v Speaker 1>of you? Oh?

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I think just that it does create those

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<v Speaker 2>types of bonds you know, within and we can, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>debate how healthy it is from time to time. But

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<v Speaker 2>just the fact that you know, you you went, you

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<v Speaker 2>went to the U. I'm sure you look across you know,

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<v Speaker 2>you don't you don't have this bond because you shared

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<v Speaker 2>chemistry class with somebody, right, you don't have you don't

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<v Speaker 2>have this bond just because of of that moment like this, uh,

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<v Speaker 2>like the game itself and what that means is is

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<v Speaker 2>so is so responsible for the like the love that

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<v Speaker 2>so many people have for their college experience that I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's it's a just so it's incredibly cool

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<v Speaker 2>how powerful that is. Now sometimes it's a bit scary,

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<v Speaker 2>but I think, you know, just just to know that

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<v Speaker 2>there's something like that has that kind of ability. Is

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<v Speaker 2>is awesome. And then you know, I mean there there

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<v Speaker 2>are so many like dumb and and good quality rivalry

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<v Speaker 2>things happen, and like credit credit to the latter day sayings,

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<v Speaker 2>so like that, put the score up in the in

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<v Speaker 2>the hymns on Sunday afterwards, and are and are bringing

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<v Speaker 2>our bringing smack talk to the pulpit in the name

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<v Speaker 2>of the Lord. That is so funny. I'm sorry, it.

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<v Speaker 1>Is, it is. It's awesome. The whole thing is hilarious

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<v Speaker 1>to me. It's you know, and when you kind of

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<v Speaker 1>remove the emotion and just more mostly observe the whole thing,

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<v Speaker 1>it really is a fun week. And I thought it

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<v Speaker 1>was a fun game. All right, let me move over here.

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<v Speaker 1>So I did not know who Brandon Rose's mother was

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<v Speaker 1>until today, So shout out to I think it's Laurie Rose,

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<v Speaker 1>Laura Lynn something like that, she said I And I'm

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<v Speaker 1>sure the folks up at the Utah football facility are

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<v Speaker 1>just thrilled this today because she sent out a tweet

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<v Speaker 1>that said prayers for Brandon please. This is Brandon Rose's

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<v Speaker 1>mother via social media. He'll be having surgery today and

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<v Speaker 1>Saturday night's game in the second quarter, just before halftime,

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<v Speaker 1>he tore his Liz Frank ligament. They gave him heavy

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<v Speaker 1>pain meds and a steel plated insul so he could

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<v Speaker 1>continue playing. The doctor couldn't believe he was really even

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<v Speaker 1>able to walk. This is extremely painful and your foot

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<v Speaker 1>is totally unstable. Fortunately, with surgery, he'll make a full

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<v Speaker 1>recovery and come back stronger than ever. I'll be with

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<v Speaker 1>him in Utah for a few days to outbout. We

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<v Speaker 1>appreciate the calls, text messages and support now in the

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<v Speaker 1>order of fairness. Earlier in the show, I received a

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<v Speaker 1>message from a source who will remain unnamed, saying he

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<v Speaker 1>did not get shut up, nor did he get any

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<v Speaker 1>pain meds, nor has any athlete ever received pain medication

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<v Speaker 1>opioids to return to the sport At the University of Utah.

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<v Speaker 1>He received an anti inflammatory pill and he did not

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<v Speaker 1>have a fracture. And I'll just say that that's coming

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<v Speaker 1>from somebody who would absolutely know. So what's your reaction

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<v Speaker 1>to this That apparently it was a second quarter injury.

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<v Speaker 1>They marched him out there played in the second half.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe explains the anemic offense or performance in the second half,

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<v Speaker 1>But obviously this is something that broke today and give

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<v Speaker 1>me your thoughts.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, I will say this, like one thing that

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<v Speaker 2>I always have to do in moments like this, and uh,

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<v Speaker 2>it's it's hard and it takes a little bit of time.

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<v Speaker 2>Is like, I truly don't know if this is Brandon

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<v Speaker 2>Res' mom It probably is, but I have no like,

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<v Speaker 2>no other other than someone saying that they are. That's

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<v Speaker 2>the only like I followed that account because I have

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<v Speaker 2>never had any interaction with that before. So I'm trying,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I think we're all trying to figure things

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<v Speaker 2>out in real time. And like I said, very very

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<v Speaker 2>likely that it is. You know, I don't have any

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<v Speaker 2>any specific reason to doubt it at the moment, but

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<v Speaker 2>like I always kind of come from a place of doubt,

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<v Speaker 2>So I don't know. Part two, I am curious, and

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<v Speaker 2>I'm glad to hear that that you've got that from

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<v Speaker 2>from a source, because I am curious exactly how extensive

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<v Speaker 2>you know, a halftime evaluation is in that moment, Like

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<v Speaker 2>and just to say that there's no fracture would mean

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<v Speaker 2>in my mind that there was an X ray right,

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<v Speaker 2>like there was something something done to to to prove

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<v Speaker 2>where we are, because I think the reality is, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>you look at these guys and and you know, it

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<v Speaker 2>is a sport that breeds warrior mindset, right, and you're

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<v Speaker 2>supposed to push through. Not only that, but you have

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<v Speaker 2>a ton of adrenaline, you have a lot of peer

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<v Speaker 2>pressure to go out and do it. So and and

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<v Speaker 2>and it probably a desire. I mean, Brandon Rose has

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<v Speaker 2>been waiting a very long time to be a quarterback

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<v Speaker 2>that plays for the University of Utah, right and here

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<v Speaker 2>he is in the middle of his moment, playing well,

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<v Speaker 2>and he's probably not incentivized to say, hey, you know what,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think I can go back out there because

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<v Speaker 2>he doesn't want to lose his job. He doesn't he

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't want to lose that moment. So, you know, do

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<v Speaker 2>I I think it's it's probably imperfect on a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of levels. Do I think somebody was saying, Brandon, I

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<v Speaker 2>don't care, suck it up, go out there and do it.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe not as much as as it is just internalized

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<v Speaker 2>by the entire setup of you know, here I am,

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<v Speaker 2>I have my moment. I cannot say take me out right,

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<v Speaker 2>And so when he doesn't, look if he goes through

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<v Speaker 2>those checks and he's saying he's gonna he's gonna go

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<v Speaker 2>and he doesn't look bad. Then I think you have

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<v Speaker 2>to be like, you know that that makes sense. It

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<v Speaker 2>makes sense that that that happens from time to time.

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<v Speaker 2>The one that you know, I think I feel like

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<v Speaker 2>just kind of eye test wise, rising against Arizona State

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<v Speaker 2>was one where we're like, maybe he says he can go,

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<v Speaker 2>but the eye test here says this is not working. Right.

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<v Speaker 2>That's that's more of a head scratcher to me than

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<v Speaker 2>than maybe the Brandon Road situation. But again, I don't

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<v Speaker 2>know all the ins and outs of what happened in

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<v Speaker 2>that medical check or not.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, buddy, before I say you loose, what was

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<v Speaker 1>it like introducing the children to Gordon?

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<v Speaker 2>Uh? You know what? They love him. They you know

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<v Speaker 2>Gordon Gordon brings a uh some some great historical knowledge

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<v Speaker 2>and he doesn't take himself too seriously and he's down

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<v Speaker 2>to help them out like that is the beautiful thing.

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<v Speaker 2>I think a lot of people that have done these

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<v Speaker 2>jobs for a long time and all of a sudden

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<v Speaker 2>you get some eager, you know, twenty two year olds

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<v Speaker 2>who maybe you know know or think they know things

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<v Speaker 2>that maybe they don't or whatever it could, it could

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<v Speaker 2>red you the wrong way. Gordon is there to help

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<v Speaker 2>out and it's awesome.

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<v Speaker 1>Gotta love it, buddy. Appreciate the time. Have a good weekend.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, hey, you too. Take care.

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<v Speaker 1>Aaron Falk, editor of the sports section of the Salt

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<v Speaker 1>Lake Tribune, and get him on Twitter at Aaron Falk

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<v Speaker 1>is where you find him. And he's got two a's

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<v Speaker 1>in Aaron, so check that out.