Speaker 1: It's Night Side with Dan Ray on wb Z Boston's
Speaker 1: news video. Okay, let's get the pain out of the way.
Speaker 1: Just get it out of the way. Another damn school shooting.
Speaker 1: We're not you know, what is it to talk about?
Speaker 1: Welcome to the program, everybody. I just want to I
Speaker 1: need to address it. It's in the news. It's bad.
Speaker 1: There's no pro there's no con it's just terrible. It's
Speaker 1: mental health, it's access to guns, it's all of it.
Speaker 1: It just sucks. It just sucks, sucks, sucks, suck, sucks.
Speaker 1: And I mean seeing ends on and they're talking about
Speaker 1: it and I saw it today and we're all, you know,
Speaker 1: for parents, it's just terrible. So I'm just gonna give
Speaker 1: you some quick comments about this and then we're gonna
Speaker 1: move on and we're gonna get into some other things.
Speaker 1: But it is part of the news of today. Four
Speaker 1: people killed. You heard about that, two teachers, two teachers,
Speaker 1: and two students in Georgia, about an hour outside of Atlanta.
Speaker 1: But this is something I saw in USA today that
Speaker 1: the school get a phone call warning them of a shooting.
Speaker 1: And this would be the first school. There were going
Speaker 1: to be five schools targeted and this was going to
Speaker 1: be the first school. So I just want to know
Speaker 1: the timeline. Because the shooter, called Gray, according to reports,
Speaker 1: began this tragedy at like ten twenty in the morning.
Speaker 1: So when did the call come in? And if the
Speaker 1: call came in sooner than that, how come the doors
Speaker 1: were not locked immediately? How come it was just not
Speaker 1: shut down? I don't know. This is the ultimate second guest.
Speaker 1: Very easy for me to do. But we have seen
Speaker 1: in the past, as we know, in past school shootings
Speaker 1: where comic sense did not prevail, where they didn't act immediately,
Speaker 1: and I hope that this is not the case here.
Speaker 1: I have seen that report. A warning was given to
Speaker 1: the school, Okay, shut it down immediately, but perhaps the
Speaker 1: young man was already in school with the gun and
Speaker 1: it was too late. But that part I did find disturbing.
Speaker 1: But the police were, they got the listen, they were
Speaker 1: there within minutes. Maybe they had already been warned, maybe
Speaker 1: they were already on their way and it could have
Speaker 1: been a lot worse. Of course, that doesn't make anybody
Speaker 1: feel better right now, especially those related to the four
Speaker 1: people killed and a fourteen year old student, coach Gray,
Speaker 1: who surrounded immediately to police. It's all of it. It's
Speaker 1: mental health, it's gun control, it's all of it. I
Speaker 1: don't understand why there are sides with this, I really don't.
Speaker 1: It pisses me off. There should be one side. Stop it.
Speaker 1: That's it. Stop it. That's what I have to say
Speaker 1: about that. All right, We're going to try to move
Speaker 1: on from that. And then okay, so Vice President harrispoke today,
Speaker 1: and it seems with her tax situation, or her tax breaks,
Speaker 1: or her whole economic policy is to help the middle class,
Speaker 1: help the little person, if you will, And that makes sense.
Speaker 1: I understand that. You know, saying that corporations and billionaires
Speaker 1: should pay taxes, that's never gone away. You and I
Speaker 1: could talk about that all day long. The billionaires of
Speaker 1: the world, they have the tax breaks, they have the
Speaker 1: interest they have all the financial capabilities, and the people
Speaker 1: working for them where they can pay seventeen percent tax
Speaker 1: as opposed to forty percent tax because of the way
Speaker 1: they can make the numbers work and they can put
Speaker 1: losses against gains and so forth and so on. That's
Speaker 1: never going to change. That's never going to change. That's
Speaker 1: just gobbly good speak. Helping the middle class. I get that.
Speaker 1: That's fine. Fifty thousand dollars tax break for startup companies, great,
Speaker 1: four thousand dollars tax break per child for people that
Speaker 1: have multiple children in their home or people that have
Speaker 1: obviously families. You get a couple of kids, you get
Speaker 1: an eight grand tax break. That can help. It's all
Speaker 1: the good start. It's not earth shattering. I mean it's not.
Speaker 1: I mean the whole thing is interest rates have to
Speaker 1: come down. If interest rates come down, which I anticipate
Speaker 1: they will, that's going to be good for her. If
Speaker 1: it happens during the Biden administration. That's what it's gonna
Speaker 1: be all about. But I don't think while we can
Speaker 1: point to the economy, and I think people say the economy,
Speaker 1: the economy, the economy, I don't think that's gonna be
Speaker 1: what decides this election. I think morality is what's going
Speaker 1: to decide the election. Is ken people vote for a
Speaker 1: guy in Donald Trump who has a lot of moral questions.
Speaker 1: We know, convicted felon sexual harassment charges, comments it about
Speaker 1: fallen soldiers and what happened during COVID. He totally mismanaged
Speaker 1: that total. I mean, I don't know who could have
Speaker 1: done there were a lot of things he said during
Speaker 1: COVID that were just stupid. You know what you're gonna
Speaker 1: get with Trump. You don't know what you're gonna get
Speaker 1: with Harris, and she's gonna get the young vote. People
Speaker 1: will point to the economy. I don't think the economy
Speaker 1: is going to decide the election this time around. I
Speaker 1: think it's gonna be personality. I think it's gonna be
Speaker 1: like I think Trump's a bad guy, or Trump's got
Speaker 1: a record. I don't like Donald Trump because he's a bully.
Speaker 1: I mean, Donald Trump's not stupid and well, could be
Speaker 1: good for the economy. We know pro trumpers have pointed
Speaker 1: to the fact that while he was in office, the
Speaker 1: economy was great. Well, you know what, when Bill Clinton
Speaker 1: was in office, he balanced the budget, So you can
Speaker 1: you can point the Republicans and you can point to
Speaker 1: Democrats where the economy worked for them. Both parties can
Speaker 1: make arguments on that regard. I don't think it's the
Speaker 1: economy stupid about this time. I think it's when you
Speaker 1: go to the ballot box, which person, Which person can
Speaker 1: I vote for? Can I let January sixth slide? Can
Speaker 1: I let the sexual harassment accusations and charges in convictions slide?
Speaker 1: Can I let those things slide? Can I let us slide?
Speaker 1: The way he has spoken about following soldiers at Arlingcoln cemeteries?
Speaker 1: Can I let that slide? Should I vote for Vice
Speaker 1: President Harris? I don't know how she's gonna do. I
Speaker 1: haven't been impressed so far she was vice president. What
Speaker 1: they do? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know. That's the thing. You don't know. That's
Speaker 1: so that's where we're at. I mean, we've talked about
Speaker 1: this before. So it's great that she's got the tax
Speaker 1: breaks and all that. I don't think it's ever shattering.
Speaker 1: And I don't think it's gonna be the economy that
Speaker 1: decides the election. I don't. I think people are just
Speaker 1: gonna vote. They're gonna vote with their heart, and they're
Speaker 1: gonna have a moral compass in which way they can go.
Speaker 1: That's it. Do they go with the unknown with a
Speaker 1: person who, as far as we know, seems to have
Speaker 1: a very good moral compass, or do we go with
Speaker 1: what we do know, with Donald Trump, who may be
Speaker 1: good for the economy, who may be good for big business,
Speaker 1: whose moral compass is a little off. That's what it's
Speaker 1: gonna come down to. All Right. Those are my opening
Speaker 1: thoughts on the show coming up tonight right here on
Speaker 1: night Side on WBZ dan rygus Off. As you know,
Speaker 1: we will take calls coming up at the eleven o'clock
Speaker 1: hour at six, one, seven, two, four, ten thirty. Got
Speaker 1: a lot of work to do between now and then.
Speaker 1: My good body, Casey Sherman. He's got a great article
Speaker 1: Boston Magazine. You know, he's written some great books like
Speaker 1: Murder in Hollywood, a hell Town, Cape cod serial Killer.
Speaker 1: He's got another one coming out, Blood in the Water.
Speaker 1: Also got a big play coming up, cases producing a
Speaker 1: big play at the Wilburn next spring. Yes, yours truly
Speaker 1: will be taking the stage, so we'll talk about that.
Speaker 1: But he's going to be talking about a man. He's
Speaker 1: going to be speaking about a man that he's written
Speaker 1: about in Jimmy Rodwell, who has spent the last forty
Speaker 1: three years in prison for a crime that he says
Speaker 1: he did not commit. Nine o'clock John Powers, one of
Speaker 1: the great sports journalists in the world, in the world
Speaker 1: who's going to join us from the Boston Globe, and
Speaker 1: we're going to look back at the Paris Olympic Games
Speaker 1: and look ahey to twenty twenty eight, and I just
Speaker 1: want to talk about the Olympics in general. Rhythm Masters
Speaker 1: and Mickey Hart Experience The Grateful Dead Drummer, one of
Speaker 1: the two. Mickey Hart has this idea the rhythm of sports.
Speaker 1: The rhythm of the universe is in sync with the
Speaker 1: rhythm of sports. My good friend Toys and Paying directed
Speaker 1: this documentary in which Mickey Hart focuses on this. And
Speaker 1: I have to admit when I first heard the idea,
Speaker 1: I went, ah, do I have to have some shrooms?
Speaker 1: Is it advised when you watch the Rhythm Rhythm Masters
Speaker 1: and Mickey Hart Experience on ESPN that you pop a
Speaker 1: couple of shrooms. You don't drive, do not drive, you know,
Speaker 1: but you just pretend you're at a dead concert. Act
Speaker 1: accordingly within your living room. I've seen the documentary. It's phenomenal,
Speaker 1: it's great, it's great. It's Mickey's a little out there,
Speaker 1: but you want to hear. You want to hear what
Speaker 1: the journey that Tory had and putting this whole documentary together,
Speaker 1: working with the Joe Montanas of the world, and when
Speaker 1: he was alive, the great Bill Walton and Mickey Hart
Speaker 1: and bringing athletes and musicians together for one common theme.
Speaker 1: Very interesting stuff. A lot of the greats Nicholas, Joe Montana,
Speaker 1: Bill Walton all say rhythm is part of being successful
Speaker 1: in sports. So that's all coming up at the ten
Speaker 1: o'clock hour, and again you're coming up at eleven o'clock
Speaker 1: right here on WBZ. Okay, coming up next here on Nightside,
Speaker 1: Gary Tagway for Dan Ray, a man that has spent
Speaker 1: forty three years in jail for a crime he says
Speaker 1: he did not come in. Casey Sherman, our buddy, breaks
Speaker 1: it down for us next on WBZ. Now back to
Speaker 1: Dan Ray. Line from the Window World, night Side Studios
Speaker 1: on WBZ News Radio the Eleventh Hour from Boston Magazine.
Speaker 1: It's a great story, a great tale told by Casey Sherman.
Speaker 1: We know that Casey is great at these things. Casey,
Speaker 1: of course, who has written a number of best selling
Speaker 1: books and now he's working on this story to you
Speaker 1: free Jimmy Rodwell spending forty three years in prison for
Speaker 1: a crime that he says he doesn't commit. And when
Speaker 1: you take a look at the facts and you read
Speaker 1: the article and you look at what Casey's working on.
Speaker 1: Lotter eyebrows get raised. Casey, thanks for joining us here
Speaker 1: on Nightside.
Speaker 2: Buddy, Hey, thanks for having me. Gary really appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's always great to talk to you here. Where
Speaker 1: do you find First of all, where do you find
Speaker 1: these stories? How do you dig this stuff up?
Speaker 2: Well, you know, oftentimes these stories just kind of come
Speaker 2: to me. I met Jimmy Rodwell over a year ago
Speaker 2: inside the walls of Conquered State Prison with his attorney
Speaker 2: of Veronica White, and he had a story to tell. Now,
Speaker 2: oftentimes I hear, you know, from prisoners all over the country,
Speaker 2: all over the world, you know, with their tales of
Speaker 2: wall I'm innocent on this. I'm innocent on that. But
Speaker 2: this one really got under my skin and I started
Speaker 2: to dig into the case and found what an absolute
Speaker 2: travesty of justice it really is.
Speaker 1: How long did it take you to discover that?
Speaker 2: We worked on this story for several months, myself and
Speaker 2: my editor at Boston Magazine, Chris Mogel, pouring over you know, hundreds,
Speaker 2: if not thousands of court documents, witness testimony, you name it,
Speaker 2: we found it. And when you put it all together
Speaker 2: from a thirty thousand foot view, and then you drill
Speaker 2: down you realize that Jimmy Rodwell isn't lying. He's sixty
Speaker 2: eight years old and he you know, he's desperate to
Speaker 2: get out of prison for a gangland murder that he
Speaker 2: did not commit.
Speaker 1: Okay, So let's set the scene here and we have
Speaker 1: a lot of moving parts, we have a lot of players,
Speaker 1: so we're not going to rush this. So Rodwell was
Speaker 1: convicted in nineteen seventy eight for the Summer the murder
Speaker 1: of Lewis Rose Junior. And what I found, and I'll
Speaker 1: just in reading the article and taking a look at
Speaker 1: your material, there's no connection really like how Rodwell became
Speaker 1: involved in this is perplexing. It was basically witnesses, okay,
Speaker 1: who wanted to get out of jail in exchange for
Speaker 1: testimony that fingered the guy. Other than that, I don't
Speaker 1: see any other connection, which is just head scratching on this.
Speaker 1: So sure, let's go through it, Okay. So Rose set
Speaker 1: up the situation, tell us about the crime, and they
Speaker 1: tell us about how Rodwell got in.
Speaker 2: You bet so. December nineteen seventy eight. Louis Rose Junior.
Speaker 2: He's a kind of a local drug dealer and the
Speaker 2: son of a decorated police officer. He is tooling around
Speaker 2: East Somerville in the industrial section of that city, and
Speaker 2: he's shot to death. It's a brutal murder. Six bullets
Speaker 2: in the head, two threw his hand, all from a
Speaker 2: twenty two caliber pistol. Now the shooting goes unsolved. It's
Speaker 2: a cold case for two years. And in nineteen eighty
Speaker 2: May of nineteen eighty Jimmy Rodwell, who's in his twenties
Speaker 2: at the time, is working as a bouncer at a
Speaker 2: disco on the Lindwe called Deja Vu. Is actually working
Speaker 2: with Franklin Zuli, who would later write for The Sopranos,
Speaker 2: and Frank de Pasqually, who's obviously a pill very well
Speaker 2: known restaurant tour and a state police detective comes to
Speaker 2: the disco and puts the cuffs on and says that
Speaker 2: you're arrested for murder. Arrested for the unsolved murder of
Speaker 2: Louis Rose Junior. Now Jimmy thinks it's a mistaken identity,
Speaker 2: and in fact, when he goes to the Somerville police
Speaker 2: station that night, he sees some cops that he knows
Speaker 2: and they're all, you know, kind of telling him, look
Speaker 2: at Jimmy, this is this has to be mistaken identity
Speaker 2: because you clearly aren't capable of doing this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, one police officer, and specific I mean you're very
Speaker 1: emphatic about that. One officer specifically came out and said,
Speaker 1: wait a minute, no way, not this guy, that's right.
Speaker 2: And that officer's name is Tom McCone. You know, Tom
Speaker 2: has been champion championing Jimmy's innocence for forty three years.
Speaker 2: And Tommy told me, he said, look, you know who
Speaker 2: the trigger men are in the area, know who the
Speaker 2: shooters are. Jimmy was none of those. Jimmy was not
Speaker 2: a killer. Jimmy had had some rough patches in his
Speaker 2: early life, but he had a legitimate business and he was,
Speaker 2: you know, doing very well for himself. And out of
Speaker 2: the blue, he gets, you know, picked off the job
Speaker 2: and thrown into jail, and he thinks he is it's
Speaker 2: I think it was a Memorial Day weekend in May
Speaker 2: of nineteen eighty and he thinks he's going to get out,
Speaker 2: you know that Mondeer that Tuesday. And he's never released
Speaker 2: from prison. And it's all because, as you mentioned, Gary
Speaker 2: you know, two serial snitches looking to shave time off
Speaker 2: their sentences put him at the crime scene.
Speaker 1: Okay, so let's let's just stop here for a minute.
Speaker 1: How in the world did Rodwell get fingered by Rose?
Speaker 1: I mean, not fingered by Rose, but for the Rose killing,
Speaker 1: Because there was a very limited connection from what I
Speaker 1: believe you wrote, between he and the original witness. He
Speaker 1: may have known him briefly, or may have worked with him,
Speaker 1: but there wasn't a really strong connection between Jimmy and
Speaker 1: these witnesses, right.
Speaker 2: No, No, there was basically no connection at all. Frank Holmes,
Speaker 2: who was one of the witnesses that you just described there, Gary,
Speaker 2: he had worked briefly, uh, you know, for Rodwell and
Speaker 2: rod Well's company, and he was a disgruntled worker. I
Speaker 2: think Rodwell had to fire him at some point, and
Speaker 2: I think he carried a grudge and when he was asked,
Speaker 2: you know, to put somebody you know at that crime
Speaker 2: scene because there was a very high profile crime, the
Speaker 2: you know, murder of the son of a decorated, decorated
Speaker 2: local police officer, you know, Jimmy Rodwell was was served up.
Speaker 1: So how does Frankie get this idea? Let's let's start
Speaker 1: with the first witness. Okay, it's two years later, the
Speaker 1: murder has not been solved. The first witness is Frankie Holmes. Okay,
Speaker 1: he's been arrested for robbery. He's looking for a way out,
Speaker 1: so he wants to exchange information. How does that whole
Speaker 1: thing go down?
Speaker 2: Well, I think he had a very you know, willing
Speaker 2: and agreeable uh state police detective uh that worked with
Speaker 2: him to you know, work on his testimony or at
Speaker 2: least his story. Now, the one thing that you know,
Speaker 2: with this story coming out in September of this year
Speaker 2: in Boston magazine, you know, we've already been through a
Speaker 2: summer of you know, the spotlight focused on state police
Speaker 2: corruption with Karen read case. So you know, go back,
Speaker 2: you know, forty three years and you're seeing you know,
Speaker 2: a really egregious case here involving Jimmy Rodwell. And again,
Speaker 2: you know, a guy like frank Holmes, the first initial witness,
Speaker 2: he'll say whatever you know the state police you know,
Speaker 2: ask him to say. And again he had a grudge.
Speaker 2: You must have had a grudge against Jimmy Rodwell because
Speaker 2: Jimmy fired him from the job, and that name popped
Speaker 2: into his head and came out of his mouth.
Speaker 1: What I don't understand is why the police in this instance,
Speaker 1: we're in such a hurry to solve this case, because
Speaker 1: what happens if you put an innocent man in jail,
Speaker 1: you're just kind of robbing Peter to pay Paul. You're
Speaker 1: just it doesn't make any sense to me. It's not
Speaker 1: and we've seen it, we've heard of it. Justice is
Speaker 1: not being served putting an innocent man in jail, manufacturing
Speaker 1: evidence or taking the first story or the second story
Speaker 1: from a couple of witnesses who are certainly not reputable,
Speaker 1: who have everything to gain by telling a story so
Speaker 1: they can get out of jail, and then putting another
Speaker 1: man in jail. You're letting out two people who should
Speaker 1: be in jail to put a man in jail who
Speaker 1: shouldn't be there. I don't get it. What is the
Speaker 1: motivation for the police to do that?
Speaker 2: You know, the motivation I think for for certain police
Speaker 2: officers to do this, it's all about you know, closing cases,
Speaker 2: you know, regardless of the truth. And again, these people
Speaker 2: should not be, you know, allowed to wear a police badge,
Speaker 2: but they do. And I think, you know, there are
Speaker 2: similar cases all over the United States, all over the
Speaker 2: world where police investigators make the suspect fit the crime,
Speaker 2: and they certainly did so here with Jimmy Rodwell.
Speaker 1: It's a great piece. Check it out a Boston magazine
Speaker 1: written by Casey Sherman. Jimmy Rodwell forty three years. He
Speaker 1: has been serving for a crime that, according to Casey,
Speaker 1: and according to Rodwell, and Casey believes it for a
Speaker 1: crime that he did not commit, a cold blood and murder.
Speaker 1: And it's called the eleventh hour. Now there is another
Speaker 1: shooter drop because you can't simply have one witness to
Speaker 1: put a man behind bars, so the authorities needed a
Speaker 1: second witness. Casey will tell us that part of the
Speaker 1: story coming up next. I feel like I'm on twenty
Speaker 1: twenty or Datelight. This on Dateline on WBZ. We'll be
Speaker 1: back after this. It's Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ,
Speaker 1: Boston's News Radio. Cool. Thank you very much, appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Back here on Nightside, Gary Tangway for day tonight, Casey
Speaker 1: Sherman is joining us here. How Town. It's a terrific book.
Speaker 1: You got to read this. Then Murder in Hollywood, which
Speaker 1: is my favorite one of Casey's because I love the
Speaker 1: whole murder stuff in the noir and but it's toss
Speaker 1: up between hell Town and murder and Hollywood. He's got
Speaker 1: another one coming out soon, Blood in the Water. We'll
Speaker 1: ask him about that a little bit later on, and
Speaker 1: then there's a big show coming up with the Wilberg
Speaker 1: next Springs who he's a busy man. But right now
Speaker 1: we're talking about the Eleventh Hour, which is an article
Speaker 1: he wrote in Boston Magazine about Jimmy Rodwell, the man
Speaker 1: who spent the last forty three years in jail, and
Speaker 1: he's been continuing to prove his innocence. So, Casey, we
Speaker 1: have witness number one that fingers Rodwell and says that
Speaker 1: he did it. He was the trigger guy. But you
Speaker 1: need too, so tell us about Nagel and how he
Speaker 1: comes in the picture.
Speaker 2: So two thirty two year old David Nagel, you know,
Speaker 2: he's the real bad guy here. Frankie Holmes, the first witness,
Speaker 2: he's a bad guy. But David Nagel is really bad.
Speaker 2: David Nagel is you know, a serial bank robber, you
Speaker 2: know a guy that's been in and out of jail.
Speaker 2: You know, almost his entire life. He is incarcerated with
Speaker 2: Jimmy Rodwell. Shortly after Jimmy Rodwell gets arrested in nineteen
Speaker 2: eighty and you know, within days, according to Rodwell allegedly
Speaker 2: confessed that he had killed Louis Rose Junior in nineteen
Speaker 2: seventy eight. Quote, I put seven in his head and
Speaker 2: I didn't hesitate.
Speaker 1: Okay, can you stop bringing there? Can you? I want
Speaker 1: to stop. You just say that one more time.
Speaker 2: I put seven in his head and didn't hesitate.
Speaker 1: Okay. Dick Wolf wrote that, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Like I read that. Like when I read that, I went, oh,
Speaker 1: come on, nobody told me what are you kidding me?
Speaker 1: Was this on HBO? I mean nobody talks like that,
Speaker 1: you know, right, No.
Speaker 2: I mean this is dialogue from an HBO drama exactly.
Speaker 1: Come on, you know that's the part where I went,
Speaker 1: I I don't know, That's where I was like, Okay, anyways,
Speaker 1: I interrupted you please continue, No, no, no.
Speaker 2: But you make a good point, because you know it's really,
Speaker 2: you know, old kind of Noirrish pattern that you read
Speaker 2: in some of these transcripts. You think, well, but is
Speaker 2: this dialogue from an no Ola movie? Or is this
Speaker 2: actually real you know, David Nagel basically was a serial snitch,
Speaker 2: somebody that worked with local government and even the federal
Speaker 2: government to shave years off of his sentences. And you know,
Speaker 2: how does anyone believe that, within a couple of days
Speaker 2: of Jimmy Rodwell even knowing David Nagel, that Jimmy Rodwell
Speaker 2: is going to confess to a murder that may put
Speaker 2: him away for life. Didn't make any sense then, doesn't
Speaker 2: make any sense. Now, Jimmy barely knew David Nagel while
Speaker 2: they were at the bel Rique House of Correction. But
Speaker 2: those are the two witnesses that the prosecution put on
Speaker 2: the stand during rod Well's trial in nineteen eighty one,
Speaker 2: and the jury bought it, despite the fact that Jimmy
Speaker 2: Rodwell's lawyer just ripped these two witnesses to shreds on
Speaker 2: the witness stand. You know, in nineteen eighty jurors believed
Speaker 2: the government. They believed the prosecutors. They didn't you know,
Speaker 2: they really didn't know. You know, the depths of the
Speaker 2: corruption within the FBI and wedding Bulger, or within the
Speaker 2: state police in several other crimes and cases. You know,
Speaker 2: these people were susceptible to what they believe the government
Speaker 2: was telling them, which is what they thought was the truth.
Speaker 1: Now let's get to the inconsistencies, because I'm glad you
Speaker 1: brought that out, because the defense shredded this case to pieces,
Speaker 1: i mean, just tore it apart. So you're talking about
Speaker 1: we're talking about Rose. Okay, So Rose, who's the victim
Speaker 1: who's murdered. So according to the testimony, and it changed
Speaker 1: a lot, and I'll let you get into that. They
Speaker 1: were very inconsistent. Rose had a rifle and he had pills,
Speaker 1: and yet they went and they had to pull material
Speaker 1: out of the trunk, but the car was still running.
Speaker 1: As we know, back in nineteen seventy eight, you had
Speaker 1: to take the keys out to open up the trunk.
Speaker 1: It's not like today. You didn't have keyless entry. So
Speaker 1: the pills in the rifle that Rose allegedly had, it's
Speaker 1: all over the road. And the testimony changed, and how
Speaker 1: it exchanged hands and how the whole thing went down.
Speaker 1: When you take a look at Holmes's testimony, it changed
Speaker 1: three times. I'm not sure about Nagel, but that witness's
Speaker 1: testimony was not consistent, not once.
Speaker 2: No, not once and you know, and he continued to
Speaker 2: get contradicted on the stand by Jimmy Rodwell's attorney, and
Speaker 2: you mentioned, you know, Frankie Holmes allegation that Jimmy Rodwell
Speaker 2: went up to the car, the death car, if you will,
Speaker 2: to get the keys out of the car and then
Speaker 2: go back to the trunk where they allegedly had these drugs.
Speaker 2: And that was the whole you know, impetus allegedly for
Speaker 2: Louis Rose's murder, that Jimmy Rodwell was going to rob
Speaker 2: him of this massive jar of percocet pills. But the
Speaker 2: inconsistency is very stark because the vehicle, to your point,
Speaker 2: Gary was still running at the time in nineteen seventy eight.
Speaker 2: You literally needed to take the keys out of the ignition,
Speaker 2: go around to the back of the trunk of the car,
Speaker 2: open the trunk with a key in order to extract
Speaker 2: anything from the truck. That's exactly you know that didn't happen.
Speaker 2: Holmes was was blasted by the defense attorney during trial
Speaker 2: for this major discrepancy, this major inconsistency that should have
Speaker 2: been enough for the jury to say, wait a minute,
Speaker 2: something is fishy here. Jimmy Rodwell is not going to
Speaker 2: get convicted because we need a threshold of beyond a
Speaker 2: reasonable doubt, and that clearly wasn't the case here.
Speaker 1: Okay, So what about Nagel as far as any holes
Speaker 1: in his theory, because I was just focused on the other.
Speaker 2: Guy, right, So Nagel and I want their you know,
Speaker 2: readers certainly to pick up Boston Magazine and read this
Speaker 2: for themselves. You know, Nagel, you know, his biggest inconsistencies
Speaker 2: are where you know, Jimmy Rodwell claimed he had tossed
Speaker 2: the murder weapons, and they had state police divers searching
Speaker 2: two locations that ultimately came up, you know, with nothing,
Speaker 2: no evidence at all that any you know, pistol or
Speaker 2: any murder weapon had been absconded or dropped, you know,
Speaker 2: either in Somerville or you know, by the Charles River
Speaker 2: in the North End. So you've got two, you know,
Speaker 2: very I would say, you know, criminal witnesses with zero
Speaker 2: credibility on the stand trying to put this guy away
Speaker 2: for life.
Speaker 1: So what was the result for the witnesses, or so
Speaker 1: for Frankie and for Nagel, What did they get in
Speaker 1: exchange for their testimony?
Speaker 2: Frankie went into witness protection and was reunited with his girlfriend,
Speaker 2: who was pregnant with their daughter at the time, and
Speaker 2: Nagel got several years shaved off of the sentence. And
Speaker 2: one of the things that Jimmy Rodwell's attorney, Veronica White,
Speaker 2: has found out over the years, and she's she's been
Speaker 2: a bulldog on this case, is that Nagel not only
Speaker 2: was he a local you know, informant for the state police,
Speaker 2: but he also head tied to the federal government and
Speaker 2: it was the government's job to protect Nagel, especially in
Speaker 2: the Rodwell case, because Nagel's fingers were also on several
Speaker 2: other cases at the federal.
Speaker 1: Level, and we don't have time to go into in case.
Speaker 1: He's right, you do need to read this in detail
Speaker 1: in Boston Magazine because the Nagel story, I was like,
Speaker 1: this guy made a living being an informant and.
Speaker 2: He admitted to it. That's that's the thing, Gary, I mean,
Speaker 2: he he said it was a game, and he said
Speaker 2: that he had, you know, played investigators, that he had
Speaker 2: played detectives because it was all a game to him.
Speaker 2: It was a high stakes game.
Speaker 1: So now there is new evidence for Rodwell, how does
Speaker 1: it look for him.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, that's that's the thing. The article is
Speaker 2: called the Eleventh Hour. This is really kind of Jimmy
Speaker 2: Rodwell's Hail Mary Pass to get out of prison. He's
Speaker 2: sixty eight years old. Veronica White is got some several
Speaker 2: legal strategies that she's working on right now to win
Speaker 2: his freedom. It's really all about putting eyes back on
Speaker 2: this case. I think for forty three years, people in
Speaker 2: the justice system in Massachusetts knew Jimmy Rodwell was innocent,
Speaker 2: but they were willing to let an innocent guy go
Speaker 2: down to protect not only the David Nagels of the world,
Speaker 2: but their own reputations. Now, by putting a new lens
Speaker 2: on this case and getting people involved much like they
Speaker 2: were and have been involved with Karen Reid case, you know,
Speaker 2: that will lead to changes being made at the state
Speaker 2: level to get Jimmy Rodwell out of prison.
Speaker 1: You know, I was just thinking about that case. See
Speaker 1: how the Karen Reid is just so Karen reidcase is
Speaker 1: so different from this case because of the media coverage.
Speaker 1: Really yeah, I mean it's the media coverage, it's the
Speaker 1: immediacy of it, it's all the different angles. It's social
Speaker 1: media that if that existed when Rodwell was initially in prison,
Speaker 1: it might have been a different story.
Speaker 2: I think it would have been a totally different story,
Speaker 2: you know. I think people, you know, everybody, you know,
Speaker 2: kind of they bought the cheese, so to speak, in
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty. They were willing to let an innocent man
Speaker 2: go to prison for the rest of his life. Meanwhile,
Speaker 2: Jimmy's family, you know, you know, is still waiting for
Speaker 2: him to come home, hoping that he comes home, you know,
Speaker 2: if not tomorrow, maybe next month, maybe next year. But
Speaker 2: time is running out for Jimmy Rodwell. And I think
Speaker 2: that you know, your audience here, Gary, I'd love them
Speaker 2: to pick up the article. But for Boston Magazine, they
Speaker 2: can also read it online. I think it posts next week.
Speaker 2: Get involved, get outraged, use the hashtag free Jimmy, and
Speaker 2: get this guy out of jail.
Speaker 1: What about a civil suit for the family, Does that exist?
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know that that exists. I think Jimmy's
Speaker 2: really focused on just getting out of prison right now.
Speaker 2: Whether it's you know, commutation or whether it's a new trial.
Speaker 2: I think those are the avenues that Jimmy's legal team,
Speaker 2: which includes Marty Weinberg, a very famous Boston attorney who's
Speaker 2: been outraged about this case as well. I think they're
Speaker 2: working on that right now to go through the legal
Speaker 2: channels to get Jimmy out. But we'll see what levers
Speaker 2: need to be pulled in order to get this guy's freedom.
Speaker 1: Casey's got a busy schedule coming up. We're going to
Speaker 1: run it down next we hit the stage again at
Speaker 1: the Schubert Theater coming up next year in the spring.
Speaker 1: It's going to be a blast. He's got a brand
Speaker 1: new book coming out and also a couple of books.
Speaker 1: I want to say, if you haven't read them yet,
Speaker 1: if you haven't read Hell Town, I mean you got
Speaker 1: to go get it. You gotta go pick this up.
Speaker 1: I'm running ound Hollywood. These are things you got to
Speaker 1: take a look at. So we look ahead and see
Speaker 1: what Casey's get cooking next here on wbz's Nightside. Now
Speaker 1: back to Dan Ray live from the Window World Nightside
Speaker 1: Studio on WBZ News Radio. All right, back here, Gary
Speaker 1: Tangling for Dan tonight. Coming up at nine o'clock. The
Speaker 1: Great John Powers, who has been covering the Olympics for
Speaker 1: the Boston Globe since nineteen seventy six. We are going
Speaker 1: to talk to him. He was in Paris and he
Speaker 1: is one of the great journalists in this city. And
Speaker 1: we're not only going to talk about Paris, but just
Speaker 1: to talk about the whole Olympic atmosphere. What's going on
Speaker 1: with the Olympics now and looking ahead to Los Angeles
Speaker 1: and what did it worked here in Boston? What did
Speaker 1: it work here in Boston. That's all coming up now.
Speaker 1: I'm right here on WBZ Casey Sherman with US Boston Magazine.
Speaker 1: Check it out. The eleventh Hour, Jimmy Rodwell claiming his
Speaker 1: innocence after spending forty three years behind bars. Check that out.
Speaker 1: But Casey's also working on some other things. Casey, tell
Speaker 1: me about Blood and Water. What's going on with that book?
Speaker 1: When can we expect it? What is it about?
Speaker 2: Sure? Blood in the Water is my eighteenth true crime book,
Speaker 2: and it comes out in April of twenty twenty five,
Speaker 2: and it's the story of Nathan Carman. Now, those of
Speaker 2: you in the audience may remember Nathan. He was a
Speaker 2: young man on the Spectrum who a few years ago
Speaker 2: took his mother out on a deep sea fishing trip
Speaker 2: off the coast of Rhode Island, the boat goes down,
Speaker 2: she disappears. He's a castaway on a life raft for
Speaker 2: up to seven days before he's rescued by a passing
Speaker 2: Chinese cargo ship in the fishing lanes of the North Atlantic.
Speaker 2: He's brought back to the US Coast Guard station, and
Speaker 2: at first Gary everybody thinks it's a bittersweet story. He's
Speaker 2: been rescued, but unfortunately his mother has disappeared and was
Speaker 2: likely drowned. But when they get him back to the
Speaker 2: Coastguard station, they begin to pick at his story. They
Speaker 2: don't believe that his mother just went missing or got
Speaker 2: knocked off the boat. They believe that he killed her.
Speaker 2: And then they realize that he's also the prime suspect
Speaker 2: in his grandfather's shotgun murder three years prior in Connecticut,
Speaker 2: all allegedly to seize control of a fifty million dollar
Speaker 2: family fortune. It makes the murder case in South Carolina
Speaker 2: look like a bunch of amateurs. This is an explosive story,
Speaker 2: and the way I'll tease it out is everything has
Speaker 2: been written about Nathan Carman, about the guilt in both
Speaker 2: these cases, but I interviewed thirty witnesses in this case,
Speaker 2: and this guy may actually be innocent of the crimes
Speaker 2: that he was accused of.
Speaker 1: Interesting, So can you tell us anymore because I have
Speaker 1: like a ton of questions, but I don't want to
Speaker 1: give anything away because that is a great tease, that
Speaker 1: is a phenomenal. But obviously you've done your research, so
Speaker 1: you believe in that, you believe in the guy.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I mean, I'm on the fence still.
Speaker 2: Some days I wake up and think what a diabolical
Speaker 2: killer Nathan Carmen was. Then the other day, you know,
Speaker 2: another day, I'll wake up and think there's no possible
Speaker 2: way he could have pulled off these two murders. And
Speaker 2: I think that, you know, once the readers start to,
Speaker 2: you know, peel the onion back, as I did. I
Speaker 2: went in with an open mind on this case. I
Speaker 2: never went in to you know, prove Nathan Carmen's guilt
Speaker 2: or to prove his innocence. I really went in to
Speaker 2: just tell the story. But as the story began to
Speaker 2: unfold around me, and as you know, putting my journalist
Speaker 2: hat on and interviewing as many people as I could
Speaker 2: around this case, many other suspects emerge. In the shotgun
Speaker 2: murder of his father and also in the you know,
Speaker 2: disappearance of Nathan's mother, Linda Carmen.
Speaker 1: Well, put me on the list and you could purchase it, right,
Speaker 1: Can you buy it now?
Speaker 2: You can buy it now. It is available for pre
Speaker 2: sale on Amazon dot Com.
Speaker 1: I've done that with your books before, and I forgot
Speaker 1: and then I'll get it in the mail like six
Speaker 1: months later and I go, what is this? Did I
Speaker 1: buy this? Wait a minute, did I buy?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 1: And now I get the ones with the big print,
Speaker 1: which I love? Phenomenal, great idea for those of us,
Speaker 1: you know, getting on in years. We need the ones
Speaker 1: with the big print. Okay, we have a very exciting event.
Speaker 1: It's coming up next fall, excuse me, next spring. And
Speaker 1: I've been fortunate enough and privileged enough to work with
Speaker 1: Casey in a couple of other shows. So tell us
Speaker 1: what's going to be happening next spring.
Speaker 2: Case sure, the show is called A Night Mayre with
Speaker 2: Casey Sherman. Now, Gary, you know, we all love ghost stories,
Speaker 2: and basically what I'll be doing, with the help of
Speaker 2: you in a very talented cast of local actors, is
Speaker 2: bringing some of my investigations to the stage at the
Speaker 2: Wilber Theater on March twenty sixth, whether it's the Boston
Speaker 2: Strangler case, you know, really peeling the layers back of
Speaker 2: my reinvestigation of that case. My aunt Mary Sullivan, for
Speaker 2: those that know, was the youngest and final victim in
Speaker 2: the Boston Strangler case in nineteen sixty four, so we'd
Speaker 2: take a deep dive into that. We also bring to
Speaker 2: stage Lana Turner and really focus on a murder in
Speaker 2: Hollywood and how the shooting of her gangster boyfriend all
Speaker 2: went down on Good Friday nineteen fifty eight. And then
Speaker 2: we end the show with a very graphic and profound
Speaker 2: retelling of Healthtown, which is about a serial murder case
Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty nine in Provincetown. And I've covered over
Speaker 2: one hundred homicides in my career, Gary, this is the
Speaker 2: most brutal that I've ever seen. This is like Jack
Speaker 2: the Ripper had been resurrected to stock the women of
Speaker 2: the Outer Cape, and that's exactly what happened.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a terrific book and people should pick it
Speaker 1: up and read it. And the thing I want to
Speaker 1: I get two questions about that the timing of those
Speaker 1: crimes were covered up again, well, I shouldn't say covered up,
Speaker 1: but did not get the attention because of what.
Speaker 2: Because of Charles Manson. Charlie Manson began the you know,
Speaker 2: Sharon Tate Labaca murder spree in the summer of nineteen
Speaker 2: sixty nine. Tony Costa is killing women on the Outer
Speaker 2: Cape early in nineteen sixty nine. And what you'll learn
Speaker 2: the stage at the Wilber Theater on March twenty sixth,
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five, is that Tony Costa, the Killer and
Speaker 2: the Cape knew Charles Manson that they were both you know,
Speaker 2: friendly together in San Francisco in the late nineteen sixties.
Speaker 2: To the idea that these two maniacs, these two serial
Speaker 2: killers were breathing the same air evolving at the same
Speaker 2: time is really incredible to see. And you know, as
Speaker 2: much of an amazing show that this is going to be,
Speaker 2: it's also a charity show. So all proceeds from this
Speaker 2: show are going to the Pete Frades Foundation that supports
Speaker 2: als patients and their families across New England. And you know,
Speaker 2: thank you Gary for donating your time. Thank you to
Speaker 2: my incredible cast that is going to be joining me
Speaker 2: on stage at the Wilbur because we're all doing something
Speaker 2: very special that night.
Speaker 1: Well, the reason I love to do this is number One,
Speaker 1: I get to work with you. Number Two, I've met
Speaker 1: some wonderful people and made some great friendships. And when
Speaker 1: people go to a show like this, and I will
Speaker 1: tell people this, the amount of talent that is in
Speaker 1: Boston is conmpletely completely flying under the radar. It really
Speaker 1: is like I've met some actors that I'm just like,
Speaker 1: you know, Kevin Lassett. You know, it just comes to
Speaker 1: the top of my mind. You know, who teaches theater
Speaker 1: at high school and he comes out and does these performances.
Speaker 1: I go, this guy should be in Hollywood. You know.
Speaker 1: There's so many local actors that have just chose to
Speaker 1: stay here and work and then you know, kind of
Speaker 1: do it as a hobby. And that's what you will
Speaker 1: get to see at the Wilburg. I mean, there's no
Speaker 1: doubt about that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, you're right about that. Gary, I mean, you
Speaker 2: know it's it's Kevin Lassett, it's Arthur Hugh, it is
Speaker 2: Paul Candarian, Christine Mohan.
Speaker 1: And then you've got you know, yes and all that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Steve Sweeney, for example, you know the legendary
Speaker 2: comedian he's going to be part of our show, John Fiori,
Speaker 2: who had a significant role in The Sopranos. We're bringing
Speaker 2: him into the show as well. So it's going to
Speaker 2: be a great, you know night to get together as
Speaker 2: kind of an acting troop and walk the audience. Three
Speaker 2: of these incredibly rich dark ghost stories. Tickets are on
Speaker 2: sale right now. Just go to wilbur dot com. A
Speaker 2: Nightmare with Casey Sherman and again your ticket will benefit
Speaker 2: the Pete Fradies Foundation for als patients.
Speaker 1: Well done, Casey, great workers always. We'll be looking for
Speaker 1: the book Blood in the Water coming out the Eleventh
Speaker 1: Hour Boston Magazine online or pick it up at a
Speaker 1: new stand or maybe you still subscribe. But it's a
Speaker 1: well done story about a very tragic situation. It's about
Speaker 1: Jimmy Rodwell. He was trying to get out of prison
Speaker 1: up to forty three years Casey, thanks for joining us.
Speaker 1: Talk to you soon, buddy, Thank you, Eric. All right,
Speaker 1: have a good one. All right. Coming up next, I'll
Speaker 1: look back at the Paris Olympic Games and the Olympics
Speaker 1: in general with the Dean of Olympic Coverage, John Powers
Speaker 1: of the Boston Globe. This is WBC's nightside