WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.439 --> 00:00:05.719 It's Night Side with Dan Ray on wb Z Boston's 2 00:00:05.799 --> 00:00:07.960 news video. Okay, let's get the pain out of the way. 3 00:00:08.359 --> 00:00:13.039 Just get it out of the way. Another damn school shooting. 4 00:00:13.160 --> 00:00:15.320 We're not you know, what is it to talk about? 5 00:00:15.400 --> 00:00:18.000 Welcome to the program, everybody. I just want to I 6 00:00:18.039 --> 00:00:20.679 need to address it. It's in the news. It's bad. 7 00:00:21.000 --> 00:00:24.079 There's no pro there's no con it's just terrible. It's 8 00:00:24.120 --> 00:00:26.440 mental health, it's access to guns, it's all of it. 9 00:00:26.440 --> 00:00:30.160 It just sucks. It just sucks, sucks, sucks, suck, sucks. 10 00:00:30.239 --> 00:00:33.240 And I mean seeing ends on and they're talking about 11 00:00:33.240 --> 00:00:34.960 it and I saw it today and we're all, you know, 12 00:00:35.039 --> 00:00:38.759 for parents, it's just terrible. So I'm just gonna give 13 00:00:38.759 --> 00:00:41.399 you some quick comments about this and then we're gonna 14 00:00:41.399 --> 00:00:42.920 move on and we're gonna get into some other things. 15 00:00:42.920 --> 00:00:44.479 But it is part of the news of today. Four 16 00:00:44.520 --> 00:00:48.640 people killed. You heard about that, two teachers, two teachers, 17 00:00:48.640 --> 00:00:52.119 and two students in Georgia, about an hour outside of Atlanta. 18 00:00:52.200 --> 00:00:54.759 But this is something I saw in USA today that 19 00:00:54.840 --> 00:00:57.240 the school get a phone call warning them of a shooting. 20 00:00:58.719 --> 00:01:00.759 And this would be the first school. There were going 21 00:01:00.799 --> 00:01:02.840 to be five schools targeted and this was going to 22 00:01:02.880 --> 00:01:05.159 be the first school. So I just want to know 23 00:01:05.200 --> 00:01:09.040 the timeline. Because the shooter, called Gray, according to reports, 24 00:01:11.400 --> 00:01:15.280 began this tragedy at like ten twenty in the morning. 25 00:01:15.840 --> 00:01:18.280 So when did the call come in? And if the 26 00:01:18.280 --> 00:01:20.000 call came in sooner than that, how come the doors 27 00:01:20.000 --> 00:01:21.959 were not locked immediately? How come it was just not 28 00:01:22.000 --> 00:01:24.719 shut down? I don't know. This is the ultimate second guest. 29 00:01:24.879 --> 00:01:27.000 Very easy for me to do. But we have seen 30 00:01:27.040 --> 00:01:31.200 in the past, as we know, in past school shootings 31 00:01:31.239 --> 00:01:39.319 where comic sense did not prevail, where they didn't act immediately, 32 00:01:39.359 --> 00:01:41.319 and I hope that this is not the case here. 33 00:01:41.439 --> 00:01:43.560 I have seen that report. A warning was given to 34 00:01:43.599 --> 00:01:46.920 the school, Okay, shut it down immediately, but perhaps the 35 00:01:46.920 --> 00:01:48.480 young man was already in school with the gun and 36 00:01:48.519 --> 00:01:51.120 it was too late. But that part I did find disturbing. 37 00:01:53.719 --> 00:01:58.519 But the police were, they got the listen, they were 38 00:01:58.519 --> 00:02:01.480 there within minutes. Maybe they had already been warned, maybe 39 00:02:01.480 --> 00:02:04.959 they were already on their way and it could have 40 00:02:04.959 --> 00:02:06.879 been a lot worse. Of course, that doesn't make anybody 41 00:02:06.920 --> 00:02:09.759 feel better right now, especially those related to the four 42 00:02:09.800 --> 00:02:12.680 people killed and a fourteen year old student, coach Gray, 43 00:02:12.960 --> 00:02:17.199 who surrounded immediately to police. It's all of it. It's 44 00:02:17.240 --> 00:02:21.560 mental health, it's gun control, it's all of it. I 45 00:02:21.560 --> 00:02:24.639 don't understand why there are sides with this, I really don't. 46 00:02:24.759 --> 00:02:28.319 It pisses me off. There should be one side. Stop it. 47 00:02:29.439 --> 00:02:34.000 That's it. Stop it. That's what I have to say 48 00:02:34.000 --> 00:02:35.599 about that. All right, We're going to try to move 49 00:02:35.599 --> 00:02:38.759 on from that. And then okay, so Vice President harrispoke today, 50 00:02:39.599 --> 00:02:42.879 and it seems with her tax situation, or her tax breaks, 51 00:02:43.000 --> 00:02:46.759 or her whole economic policy is to help the middle class, 52 00:02:47.120 --> 00:02:50.159 help the little person, if you will, And that makes sense. 53 00:02:50.240 --> 00:02:57.080 I understand that. You know, saying that corporations and billionaires 54 00:02:57.159 --> 00:03:00.800 should pay taxes, that's never gone away. You and I 55 00:03:00.800 --> 00:03:04.280 could talk about that all day long. The billionaires of 56 00:03:04.280 --> 00:03:07.360 the world, they have the tax breaks, they have the 57 00:03:07.479 --> 00:03:10.960 interest they have all the financial capabilities, and the people 58 00:03:11.000 --> 00:03:14.960 working for them where they can pay seventeen percent tax 59 00:03:15.000 --> 00:03:18.159 as opposed to forty percent tax because of the way 60 00:03:18.159 --> 00:03:19.960 they can make the numbers work and they can put 61 00:03:20.039 --> 00:03:22.960 losses against gains and so forth and so on. That's 62 00:03:23.000 --> 00:03:26.439 never going to change. That's never going to change. That's 63 00:03:26.520 --> 00:03:30.599 just gobbly good speak. Helping the middle class. I get that. 64 00:03:30.599 --> 00:03:34.520 That's fine. Fifty thousand dollars tax break for startup companies, great, 65 00:03:34.800 --> 00:03:37.960 four thousand dollars tax break per child for people that 66 00:03:38.039 --> 00:03:40.560 have multiple children in their home or people that have 67 00:03:40.879 --> 00:03:43.599 obviously families. You get a couple of kids, you get 68 00:03:43.599 --> 00:03:46.400 an eight grand tax break. That can help. It's all 69 00:03:46.400 --> 00:03:51.080 the good start. It's not earth shattering. I mean it's not. 70 00:03:51.280 --> 00:03:53.080 I mean the whole thing is interest rates have to 71 00:03:53.080 --> 00:03:55.240 come down. If interest rates come down, which I anticipate 72 00:03:55.280 --> 00:03:57.039 they will, that's going to be good for her. If 73 00:03:57.039 --> 00:04:01.639 it happens during the Biden administration. That's what it's gonna 74 00:04:01.639 --> 00:04:03.680 be all about. But I don't think while we can 75 00:04:03.759 --> 00:04:06.520 point to the economy, and I think people say the economy, 76 00:04:06.520 --> 00:04:09.120 the economy, the economy, I don't think that's gonna be 77 00:04:09.120 --> 00:04:11.599 what decides this election. I think morality is what's going 78 00:04:11.680 --> 00:04:15.800 to decide the election. Is ken people vote for a 79 00:04:15.800 --> 00:04:19.920 guy in Donald Trump who has a lot of moral questions. 80 00:04:19.959 --> 00:04:26.360 We know, convicted felon sexual harassment charges, comments it about 81 00:04:26.480 --> 00:04:34.079 fallen soldiers and what happened during COVID. He totally mismanaged 82 00:04:34.120 --> 00:04:36.439 that total. I mean, I don't know who could have 83 00:04:36.480 --> 00:04:38.079 done there were a lot of things he said during 84 00:04:38.079 --> 00:04:40.680 COVID that were just stupid. You know what you're gonna 85 00:04:40.680 --> 00:04:42.439 get with Trump. You don't know what you're gonna get 86 00:04:42.480 --> 00:04:44.639 with Harris, and she's gonna get the young vote. People 87 00:04:44.680 --> 00:04:47.160 will point to the economy. I don't think the economy 88 00:04:47.199 --> 00:04:49.680 is going to decide the election this time around. I 89 00:04:49.680 --> 00:04:52.519 think it's gonna be personality. I think it's gonna be 90 00:04:52.560 --> 00:04:54.959 like I think Trump's a bad guy, or Trump's got 91 00:04:55.040 --> 00:04:57.680 a record. I don't like Donald Trump because he's a bully. 92 00:04:58.000 --> 00:05:00.480 I mean, Donald Trump's not stupid and well, could be 93 00:05:00.519 --> 00:05:03.399 good for the economy. We know pro trumpers have pointed 94 00:05:03.439 --> 00:05:05.240 to the fact that while he was in office, the 95 00:05:05.279 --> 00:05:07.720 economy was great. Well, you know what, when Bill Clinton 96 00:05:07.800 --> 00:05:09.959 was in office, he balanced the budget, So you can 97 00:05:10.439 --> 00:05:12.199 you can point the Republicans and you can point to 98 00:05:12.279 --> 00:05:16.199 Democrats where the economy worked for them. Both parties can 99 00:05:16.279 --> 00:05:19.759 make arguments on that regard. I don't think it's the 100 00:05:19.800 --> 00:05:22.079 economy stupid about this time. I think it's when you 101 00:05:22.120 --> 00:05:27.680 go to the ballot box, which person, Which person can 102 00:05:27.759 --> 00:05:32.439 I vote for? Can I let January sixth slide? Can 103 00:05:32.480 --> 00:05:36.079 I let the sexual harassment accusations and charges in convictions slide? 104 00:05:36.160 --> 00:05:40.279 Can I let those things slide? Can I let us slide? 105 00:05:40.279 --> 00:05:43.079 The way he has spoken about following soldiers at Arlingcoln cemeteries? 106 00:05:43.519 --> 00:05:47.879 Can I let that slide? Should I vote for Vice 107 00:05:47.920 --> 00:05:49.839 President Harris? I don't know how she's gonna do. I 108 00:05:49.879 --> 00:05:53.639 haven't been impressed so far she was vice president. What 109 00:05:53.800 --> 00:05:55.839 they do? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. 110 00:05:56.399 --> 00:06:01.360 I don't know. That's the thing. You don't know. That's 111 00:06:01.519 --> 00:06:04.279 so that's where we're at. I mean, we've talked about 112 00:06:04.279 --> 00:06:06.639 this before. So it's great that she's got the tax 113 00:06:06.680 --> 00:06:09.079 breaks and all that. I don't think it's ever shattering. 114 00:06:09.319 --> 00:06:11.120 And I don't think it's gonna be the economy that 115 00:06:11.120 --> 00:06:14.680 decides the election. I don't. I think people are just 116 00:06:14.720 --> 00:06:18.920 gonna vote. They're gonna vote with their heart, and they're 117 00:06:18.959 --> 00:06:21.120 gonna have a moral compass in which way they can go. 118 00:06:22.680 --> 00:06:26.040 That's it. Do they go with the unknown with a 119 00:06:26.120 --> 00:06:28.680 person who, as far as we know, seems to have 120 00:06:28.720 --> 00:06:31.319 a very good moral compass, or do we go with 121 00:06:31.439 --> 00:06:33.199 what we do know, with Donald Trump, who may be 122 00:06:33.279 --> 00:06:35.560 good for the economy, who may be good for big business, 123 00:06:35.639 --> 00:06:40.680 whose moral compass is a little off. That's what it's 124 00:06:40.680 --> 00:06:42.920 gonna come down to. All Right. Those are my opening 125 00:06:42.959 --> 00:06:45.600 thoughts on the show coming up tonight right here on 126 00:06:45.720 --> 00:06:48.800 night Side on WBZ dan rygus Off. As you know, 127 00:06:50.240 --> 00:06:52.120 we will take calls coming up at the eleven o'clock 128 00:06:52.160 --> 00:06:54.639 hour at six, one, seven, two, four, ten thirty. Got 129 00:06:54.639 --> 00:06:56.079 a lot of work to do between now and then. 130 00:06:56.120 --> 00:06:59.160 My good body, Casey Sherman. He's got a great article 131 00:06:59.199 --> 00:07:01.680 Boston Magazine. You know, he's written some great books like 132 00:07:01.800 --> 00:07:04.920 Murder in Hollywood, a hell Town, Cape cod serial Killer. 133 00:07:04.920 --> 00:07:08.079 He's got another one coming out, Blood in the Water. 134 00:07:08.360 --> 00:07:10.720 Also got a big play coming up, cases producing a 135 00:07:10.720 --> 00:07:13.519 big play at the Wilburn next spring. Yes, yours truly 136 00:07:13.560 --> 00:07:16.279 will be taking the stage, so we'll talk about that. 137 00:07:16.319 --> 00:07:18.079 But he's going to be talking about a man. He's 138 00:07:18.120 --> 00:07:19.920 going to be speaking about a man that he's written 139 00:07:19.920 --> 00:07:22.800 about in Jimmy Rodwell, who has spent the last forty 140 00:07:22.800 --> 00:07:25.879 three years in prison for a crime that he says 141 00:07:25.920 --> 00:07:29.240 he did not commit. Nine o'clock John Powers, one of 142 00:07:29.279 --> 00:07:34.160 the great sports journalists in the world, in the world 143 00:07:34.360 --> 00:07:36.600 who's going to join us from the Boston Globe, and 144 00:07:36.600 --> 00:07:38.519 we're going to look back at the Paris Olympic Games 145 00:07:38.519 --> 00:07:40.120 and look ahey to twenty twenty eight, and I just 146 00:07:40.120 --> 00:07:43.560 want to talk about the Olympics in general. Rhythm Masters 147 00:07:43.560 --> 00:07:47.480 and Mickey Hart Experience The Grateful Dead Drummer, one of 148 00:07:47.519 --> 00:07:51.560 the two. Mickey Hart has this idea the rhythm of sports. 149 00:07:53.120 --> 00:07:57.240 The rhythm of the universe is in sync with the 150 00:07:57.319 --> 00:08:00.839 rhythm of sports. My good friend Toys and Paying directed 151 00:08:00.839 --> 00:08:04.199 this documentary in which Mickey Hart focuses on this. And 152 00:08:04.240 --> 00:08:06.000 I have to admit when I first heard the idea, 153 00:08:06.040 --> 00:08:10.879 I went, ah, do I have to have some shrooms? 154 00:08:09.959 --> 00:08:14.319 Is it advised when you watch the Rhythm Rhythm Masters 155 00:08:14.319 --> 00:08:16.560 and Mickey Hart Experience on ESPN that you pop a 156 00:08:16.560 --> 00:08:21.759 couple of shrooms. You don't drive, do not drive, you know, 157 00:08:22.279 --> 00:08:24.759 but you just pretend you're at a dead concert. Act 158 00:08:24.800 --> 00:08:28.160 accordingly within your living room. I've seen the documentary. It's phenomenal, 159 00:08:28.439 --> 00:08:32.519 it's great, it's great. It's Mickey's a little out there, 160 00:08:32.519 --> 00:08:33.840 but you want to hear. You want to hear what 161 00:08:34.399 --> 00:08:37.360 the journey that Tory had and putting this whole documentary together, 162 00:08:38.159 --> 00:08:40.360 working with the Joe Montanas of the world, and when 163 00:08:40.399 --> 00:08:42.639 he was alive, the great Bill Walton and Mickey Hart 164 00:08:42.679 --> 00:08:46.320 and bringing athletes and musicians together for one common theme. 165 00:08:46.720 --> 00:08:51.240 Very interesting stuff. A lot of the greats Nicholas, Joe Montana, 166 00:08:52.240 --> 00:08:56.320 Bill Walton all say rhythm is part of being successful 167 00:08:56.360 --> 00:08:58.919 in sports. So that's all coming up at the ten 168 00:08:58.919 --> 00:09:01.279 o'clock hour, and again you're coming up at eleven o'clock 169 00:09:01.519 --> 00:09:04.519 right here on WBZ. Okay, coming up next here on Nightside, 170 00:09:04.519 --> 00:09:07.639 Gary Tagway for Dan Ray, a man that has spent 171 00:09:07.720 --> 00:09:09.759 forty three years in jail for a crime he says 172 00:09:09.799 --> 00:09:12.879 he did not come in. Casey Sherman, our buddy, breaks 173 00:09:12.919 --> 00:09:16.360 it down for us next on WBZ. Now back to 174 00:09:16.519 --> 00:09:19.919 Dan Ray. Line from the Window World, night Side Studios 175 00:09:19.960 --> 00:09:25.600 on WBZ News Radio the Eleventh Hour from Boston Magazine. 176 00:09:25.639 --> 00:09:28.320 It's a great story, a great tale told by Casey Sherman. 177 00:09:28.399 --> 00:09:31.399 We know that Casey is great at these things. Casey, 178 00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:33.759 of course, who has written a number of best selling 179 00:09:33.759 --> 00:09:36.639 books and now he's working on this story to you 180 00:09:36.759 --> 00:09:41.960 free Jimmy Rodwell spending forty three years in prison for 181 00:09:42.000 --> 00:09:43.759 a crime that he says he doesn't commit. And when 182 00:09:43.759 --> 00:09:45.679 you take a look at the facts and you read 183 00:09:45.679 --> 00:09:47.559 the article and you look at what Casey's working on. 184 00:09:48.759 --> 00:09:51.200 Lotter eyebrows get raised. Casey, thanks for joining us here 185 00:09:51.200 --> 00:09:51.679 on Nightside. 186 00:09:51.679 --> 00:09:54.480 Buddy, Hey, thanks for having me. Gary really appreciate it. 187 00:09:54.559 --> 00:09:56.279 Yeah, it's always great to talk to you here. Where 188 00:09:56.320 --> 00:09:58.919 do you find First of all, where do you find 189 00:09:58.960 --> 00:10:01.840 these stories? How do you dig this stuff up? 190 00:10:02.919 --> 00:10:05.559 Well, you know, oftentimes these stories just kind of come 191 00:10:05.639 --> 00:10:09.120 to me. I met Jimmy Rodwell over a year ago 192 00:10:09.320 --> 00:10:12.559 inside the walls of Conquered State Prison with his attorney 193 00:10:12.559 --> 00:10:15.960 of Veronica White, and he had a story to tell. Now, 194 00:10:16.039 --> 00:10:19.360 oftentimes I hear, you know, from prisoners all over the country, 195 00:10:19.399 --> 00:10:21.600 all over the world, you know, with their tales of 196 00:10:21.639 --> 00:10:25.120 wall I'm innocent on this. I'm innocent on that. But 197 00:10:25.240 --> 00:10:28.960 this one really got under my skin and I started 198 00:10:29.000 --> 00:10:33.120 to dig into the case and found what an absolute 199 00:10:33.440 --> 00:10:35.360 travesty of justice it really is. 200 00:10:36.120 --> 00:10:37.919 How long did it take you to discover that? 201 00:10:39.720 --> 00:10:43.519 We worked on this story for several months, myself and 202 00:10:43.919 --> 00:10:48.399 my editor at Boston Magazine, Chris Mogel, pouring over you know, hundreds, 203 00:10:48.440 --> 00:10:53.159 if not thousands of court documents, witness testimony, you name it, 204 00:10:53.240 --> 00:10:56.240 we found it. And when you put it all together 205 00:10:56.720 --> 00:10:58.919 from a thirty thousand foot view, and then you drill 206 00:10:59.039 --> 00:11:04.159 down you realize that Jimmy Rodwell isn't lying. He's sixty 207 00:11:04.200 --> 00:11:07.000 eight years old and he you know, he's desperate to 208 00:11:07.000 --> 00:11:10.440 get out of prison for a gangland murder that he 209 00:11:10.519 --> 00:11:11.240 did not commit. 210 00:11:12.039 --> 00:11:14.320 Okay, So let's set the scene here and we have 211 00:11:14.360 --> 00:11:16.320 a lot of moving parts, we have a lot of players, 212 00:11:16.360 --> 00:11:18.799 so we're not going to rush this. So Rodwell was 213 00:11:18.840 --> 00:11:21.360 convicted in nineteen seventy eight for the Summer the murder 214 00:11:21.480 --> 00:11:25.440 of Lewis Rose Junior. And what I found, and I'll 215 00:11:25.559 --> 00:11:28.320 just in reading the article and taking a look at 216 00:11:28.360 --> 00:11:35.799 your material, there's no connection really like how Rodwell became 217 00:11:35.879 --> 00:11:41.120 involved in this is perplexing. It was basically witnesses, okay, 218 00:11:41.159 --> 00:11:43.039 who wanted to get out of jail in exchange for 219 00:11:43.120 --> 00:11:46.759 testimony that fingered the guy. Other than that, I don't 220 00:11:46.759 --> 00:11:50.399 see any other connection, which is just head scratching on this. 221 00:11:50.960 --> 00:11:54.960 So sure, let's go through it, Okay. So Rose set 222 00:11:55.039 --> 00:11:57.720 up the situation, tell us about the crime, and they 223 00:11:57.840 --> 00:12:00.039 tell us about how Rodwell got in. 224 00:12:01.879 --> 00:12:07.159 You bet so. December nineteen seventy eight. Louis Rose Junior. 225 00:12:07.200 --> 00:12:09.600 He's a kind of a local drug dealer and the 226 00:12:09.639 --> 00:12:14.320 son of a decorated police officer. He is tooling around 227 00:12:14.440 --> 00:12:17.720 East Somerville in the industrial section of that city, and 228 00:12:17.799 --> 00:12:21.799 he's shot to death. It's a brutal murder. Six bullets 229 00:12:21.799 --> 00:12:24.639 in the head, two threw his hand, all from a 230 00:12:24.679 --> 00:12:29.279 twenty two caliber pistol. Now the shooting goes unsolved. It's 231 00:12:29.279 --> 00:12:33.240 a cold case for two years. And in nineteen eighty 232 00:12:33.600 --> 00:12:36.559 May of nineteen eighty Jimmy Rodwell, who's in his twenties 233 00:12:36.559 --> 00:12:39.799 at the time, is working as a bouncer at a 234 00:12:39.879 --> 00:12:43.679 disco on the Lindwe called Deja Vu. Is actually working 235 00:12:43.759 --> 00:12:47.000 with Franklin Zuli, who would later write for The Sopranos, 236 00:12:47.320 --> 00:12:51.240 and Frank de Pasqually, who's obviously a pill very well 237 00:12:51.240 --> 00:12:55.279 known restaurant tour and a state police detective comes to 238 00:12:55.799 --> 00:12:58.519 the disco and puts the cuffs on and says that 239 00:12:58.600 --> 00:13:02.639 you're arrested for murder. Arrested for the unsolved murder of 240 00:13:03.399 --> 00:13:07.840 Louis Rose Junior. Now Jimmy thinks it's a mistaken identity, 241 00:13:08.159 --> 00:13:10.480 and in fact, when he goes to the Somerville police 242 00:13:10.639 --> 00:13:13.519 station that night, he sees some cops that he knows 243 00:13:13.960 --> 00:13:16.159 and they're all, you know, kind of telling him, look 244 00:13:16.159 --> 00:13:18.840 at Jimmy, this is this has to be mistaken identity 245 00:13:18.879 --> 00:13:21.879 because you clearly aren't capable of doing this. 246 00:13:22.080 --> 00:13:24.679 Yeah, one police officer, and specific I mean you're very 247 00:13:24.679 --> 00:13:27.240 emphatic about that. One officer specifically came out and said, 248 00:13:27.240 --> 00:13:31.399 wait a minute, no way, not this guy, that's right. 249 00:13:31.480 --> 00:13:35.200 And that officer's name is Tom McCone. You know, Tom 250 00:13:35.240 --> 00:13:40.120 has been champion championing Jimmy's innocence for forty three years. 251 00:13:40.360 --> 00:13:42.440 And Tommy told me, he said, look, you know who 252 00:13:42.480 --> 00:13:44.720 the trigger men are in the area, know who the 253 00:13:44.720 --> 00:13:48.399 shooters are. Jimmy was none of those. Jimmy was not 254 00:13:48.519 --> 00:13:51.360 a killer. Jimmy had had some rough patches in his 255 00:13:51.440 --> 00:13:55.559 early life, but he had a legitimate business and he was, 256 00:13:55.919 --> 00:13:58.080 you know, doing very well for himself. And out of 257 00:13:58.080 --> 00:14:01.440 the blue, he gets, you know, picked off the job 258 00:14:01.559 --> 00:14:04.320 and thrown into jail, and he thinks he is it's 259 00:14:04.440 --> 00:14:07.799 I think it was a Memorial Day weekend in May 260 00:14:07.840 --> 00:14:11.039 of nineteen eighty and he thinks he's going to get out, 261 00:14:11.480 --> 00:14:14.919 you know that Mondeer that Tuesday. And he's never released 262 00:14:15.159 --> 00:14:18.480 from prison. And it's all because, as you mentioned, Gary 263 00:14:19.000 --> 00:14:22.519 you know, two serial snitches looking to shave time off 264 00:14:22.559 --> 00:14:25.679 their sentences put him at the crime scene. 265 00:14:25.879 --> 00:14:28.879 Okay, so let's let's just stop here for a minute. 266 00:14:29.720 --> 00:14:33.759 How in the world did Rodwell get fingered by Rose? 267 00:14:33.879 --> 00:14:36.799 I mean, not fingered by Rose, but for the Rose killing, 268 00:14:37.480 --> 00:14:40.159 Because there was a very limited connection from what I 269 00:14:40.240 --> 00:14:45.879 believe you wrote, between he and the original witness. He 270 00:14:45.919 --> 00:14:48.440 may have known him briefly, or may have worked with him, 271 00:14:48.919 --> 00:14:52.240 but there wasn't a really strong connection between Jimmy and 272 00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:53.759 these witnesses, right. 273 00:14:54.320 --> 00:14:59.080 No, No, there was basically no connection at all. Frank Holmes, 274 00:14:59.080 --> 00:15:01.639 who was one of the witnesses that you just described there, Gary, 275 00:15:02.039 --> 00:15:06.759 he had worked briefly, uh, you know, for Rodwell and 276 00:15:07.320 --> 00:15:10.080 rod Well's company, and he was a disgruntled worker. I 277 00:15:10.080 --> 00:15:12.559 think Rodwell had to fire him at some point, and 278 00:15:12.639 --> 00:15:15.320 I think he carried a grudge and when he was asked, 279 00:15:15.360 --> 00:15:17.840 you know, to put somebody you know at that crime 280 00:15:17.879 --> 00:15:20.440 scene because there was a very high profile crime, the 281 00:15:21.080 --> 00:15:24.679 you know, murder of the son of a decorated, decorated 282 00:15:24.720 --> 00:15:28.240 local police officer, you know, Jimmy Rodwell was was served up. 283 00:15:29.840 --> 00:15:32.960 So how does Frankie get this idea? Let's let's start 284 00:15:33.000 --> 00:15:37.039 with the first witness. Okay, it's two years later, the 285 00:15:37.159 --> 00:15:41.960 murder has not been solved. The first witness is Frankie Holmes. Okay, 286 00:15:42.720 --> 00:15:47.399 he's been arrested for robbery. He's looking for a way out, 287 00:15:47.480 --> 00:15:51.240 so he wants to exchange information. How does that whole 288 00:15:51.279 --> 00:15:52.080 thing go down? 289 00:15:53.399 --> 00:15:55.960 Well, I think he had a very you know, willing 290 00:15:56.080 --> 00:16:00.720 and agreeable uh state police detective uh that worked with 291 00:16:00.840 --> 00:16:04.519 him to you know, work on his testimony or at 292 00:16:04.600 --> 00:16:07.120 least his story. Now, the one thing that you know, 293 00:16:07.159 --> 00:16:10.240 with this story coming out in September of this year 294 00:16:10.279 --> 00:16:13.159 in Boston magazine, you know, we've already been through a 295 00:16:13.320 --> 00:16:17.840 summer of you know, the spotlight focused on state police 296 00:16:17.840 --> 00:16:20.840 corruption with Karen read case. So you know, go back, 297 00:16:20.960 --> 00:16:23.799 you know, forty three years and you're seeing you know, 298 00:16:24.240 --> 00:16:28.679 a really egregious case here involving Jimmy Rodwell. And again, 299 00:16:29.080 --> 00:16:31.720 you know, a guy like frank Holmes, the first initial witness, 300 00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:35.519 he'll say whatever you know the state police you know, 301 00:16:35.600 --> 00:16:38.480 ask him to say. And again he had a grudge. 302 00:16:38.519 --> 00:16:40.840 You must have had a grudge against Jimmy Rodwell because 303 00:16:40.919 --> 00:16:43.679 Jimmy fired him from the job, and that name popped 304 00:16:43.679 --> 00:16:45.600 into his head and came out of his mouth. 305 00:16:47.519 --> 00:16:52.840 What I don't understand is why the police in this instance, 306 00:16:53.080 --> 00:16:56.399 we're in such a hurry to solve this case, because 307 00:16:56.440 --> 00:16:59.000 what happens if you put an innocent man in jail, 308 00:17:00.480 --> 00:17:04.200 you're just kind of robbing Peter to pay Paul. You're 309 00:17:04.359 --> 00:17:06.480 just it doesn't make any sense to me. It's not 310 00:17:07.240 --> 00:17:09.759 and we've seen it, we've heard of it. Justice is 311 00:17:09.799 --> 00:17:13.400 not being served putting an innocent man in jail, manufacturing 312 00:17:13.400 --> 00:17:18.200 evidence or taking the first story or the second story 313 00:17:18.240 --> 00:17:20.759 from a couple of witnesses who are certainly not reputable, 314 00:17:20.880 --> 00:17:23.240 who have everything to gain by telling a story so 315 00:17:23.319 --> 00:17:25.720 they can get out of jail, and then putting another 316 00:17:25.759 --> 00:17:28.519 man in jail. You're letting out two people who should 317 00:17:28.519 --> 00:17:30.519 be in jail to put a man in jail who 318 00:17:30.519 --> 00:17:33.000 shouldn't be there. I don't get it. What is the 319 00:17:33.039 --> 00:17:35.519 motivation for the police to do that? 320 00:17:36.759 --> 00:17:39.480 You know, the motivation I think for for certain police 321 00:17:39.480 --> 00:17:43.319 officers to do this, it's all about you know, closing cases, 322 00:17:44.359 --> 00:17:46.799 you know, regardless of the truth. And again, these people 323 00:17:46.839 --> 00:17:50.359 should not be, you know, allowed to wear a police badge, 324 00:17:50.440 --> 00:17:52.519 but they do. And I think, you know, there are 325 00:17:52.559 --> 00:17:55.119 similar cases all over the United States, all over the 326 00:17:55.119 --> 00:18:00.000 world where police investigators make the suspect fit the crime, 327 00:18:00.440 --> 00:18:04.160 and they certainly did so here with Jimmy Rodwell. 328 00:18:04.359 --> 00:18:06.559 It's a great piece. Check it out a Boston magazine 329 00:18:06.599 --> 00:18:10.440 written by Casey Sherman. Jimmy Rodwell forty three years. He 330 00:18:10.480 --> 00:18:13.039 has been serving for a crime that, according to Casey, 331 00:18:13.079 --> 00:18:15.440 and according to Rodwell, and Casey believes it for a 332 00:18:15.440 --> 00:18:17.759 crime that he did not commit, a cold blood and murder. 333 00:18:18.279 --> 00:18:20.720 And it's called the eleventh hour. Now there is another 334 00:18:20.759 --> 00:18:24.519 shooter drop because you can't simply have one witness to 335 00:18:24.559 --> 00:18:28.160 put a man behind bars, so the authorities needed a 336 00:18:28.200 --> 00:18:30.599 second witness. Casey will tell us that part of the 337 00:18:30.640 --> 00:18:33.559 story coming up next. I feel like I'm on twenty 338 00:18:33.599 --> 00:18:37.839 twenty or Datelight. This on Dateline on WBZ. We'll be 339 00:18:37.880 --> 00:18:42.519 back after this. It's Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, 340 00:18:42.839 --> 00:18:46.039 Boston's News Radio. Cool. Thank you very much, appreciate it. 341 00:18:46.079 --> 00:18:49.200 Back here on Nightside, Gary Tangway for day tonight, Casey 342 00:18:49.200 --> 00:18:52.000 Sherman is joining us here. How Town. It's a terrific book. 343 00:18:52.039 --> 00:18:54.920 You got to read this. Then Murder in Hollywood, which 344 00:18:54.960 --> 00:18:56.799 is my favorite one of Casey's because I love the 345 00:18:56.799 --> 00:19:00.359 whole murder stuff in the noir and but it's toss 346 00:19:00.440 --> 00:19:02.079 up between hell Town and murder and Hollywood. He's got 347 00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:03.960 another one coming out soon, Blood in the Water. We'll 348 00:19:03.960 --> 00:19:05.839 ask him about that a little bit later on, and 349 00:19:05.839 --> 00:19:07.759 then there's a big show coming up with the Wilberg 350 00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:10.039 next Springs who he's a busy man. But right now 351 00:19:10.039 --> 00:19:12.759 we're talking about the Eleventh Hour, which is an article 352 00:19:12.759 --> 00:19:15.559 he wrote in Boston Magazine about Jimmy Rodwell, the man 353 00:19:15.599 --> 00:19:18.000 who spent the last forty three years in jail, and 354 00:19:18.039 --> 00:19:21.200 he's been continuing to prove his innocence. So, Casey, we 355 00:19:21.240 --> 00:19:25.079 have witness number one that fingers Rodwell and says that 356 00:19:25.160 --> 00:19:27.559 he did it. He was the trigger guy. But you 357 00:19:27.640 --> 00:19:30.920 need too, so tell us about Nagel and how he 358 00:19:30.960 --> 00:19:31.799 comes in the picture. 359 00:19:33.079 --> 00:19:36.759 So two thirty two year old David Nagel, you know, 360 00:19:36.839 --> 00:19:40.000 he's the real bad guy here. Frankie Holmes, the first witness, 361 00:19:40.200 --> 00:19:43.160 he's a bad guy. But David Nagel is really bad. 362 00:19:43.240 --> 00:19:47.880 David Nagel is you know, a serial bank robber, you 363 00:19:47.920 --> 00:19:49.799 know a guy that's been in and out of jail. 364 00:19:49.839 --> 00:19:52.960 You know, almost his entire life. He is incarcerated with 365 00:19:53.079 --> 00:19:56.960 Jimmy Rodwell. Shortly after Jimmy Rodwell gets arrested in nineteen 366 00:19:57.039 --> 00:20:02.240 eighty and you know, within days, according to Rodwell allegedly 367 00:20:02.359 --> 00:20:06.599 confessed that he had killed Louis Rose Junior in nineteen 368 00:20:06.640 --> 00:20:09.799 seventy eight. Quote, I put seven in his head and 369 00:20:09.839 --> 00:20:10.759 I didn't hesitate. 370 00:20:10.839 --> 00:20:13.079 Okay, can you stop bringing there? Can you? I want 371 00:20:13.079 --> 00:20:14.960 to stop. You just say that one more time. 372 00:20:16.680 --> 00:20:19.599 I put seven in his head and didn't hesitate. 373 00:20:19.720 --> 00:20:22.720 Okay. Dick Wolf wrote that, you know what I mean, 374 00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:26.039 Like I read that. Like when I read that, I went, oh, 375 00:20:26.079 --> 00:20:28.880 come on, nobody told me what are you kidding me? 376 00:20:29.359 --> 00:20:31.759 Was this on HBO? I mean nobody talks like that, 377 00:20:32.559 --> 00:20:34.039 you know, right, No. 378 00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:37.240 I mean this is dialogue from an HBO drama exactly. 379 00:20:37.359 --> 00:20:40.640 Come on, you know that's the part where I went, 380 00:20:41.079 --> 00:20:45.160 I I don't know, That's where I was like, Okay, anyways, 381 00:20:45.200 --> 00:20:47.759 I interrupted you please continue, No, no, no. 382 00:20:47.680 --> 00:20:49.960 But you make a good point, because you know it's really, 383 00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:54.160 you know, old kind of Noirrish pattern that you read 384 00:20:54.519 --> 00:20:56.440 in some of these transcripts. You think, well, but is 385 00:20:56.440 --> 00:20:58.720 this dialogue from an no Ola movie? Or is this 386 00:20:59.000 --> 00:21:03.359 actually real you know, David Nagel basically was a serial snitch, 387 00:21:03.720 --> 00:21:07.720 somebody that worked with local government and even the federal 388 00:21:07.759 --> 00:21:11.720 government to shave years off of his sentences. And you know, 389 00:21:11.920 --> 00:21:15.319 how does anyone believe that, within a couple of days 390 00:21:15.319 --> 00:21:19.160 of Jimmy Rodwell even knowing David Nagel, that Jimmy Rodwell 391 00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:21.759 is going to confess to a murder that may put 392 00:21:21.799 --> 00:21:24.839 him away for life. Didn't make any sense then, doesn't 393 00:21:24.880 --> 00:21:28.160 make any sense. Now, Jimmy barely knew David Nagel while 394 00:21:28.200 --> 00:21:31.960 they were at the bel Rique House of Correction. But 395 00:21:32.160 --> 00:21:35.400 those are the two witnesses that the prosecution put on 396 00:21:35.440 --> 00:21:40.680 the stand during rod Well's trial in nineteen eighty one, 397 00:21:41.200 --> 00:21:45.720 and the jury bought it, despite the fact that Jimmy 398 00:21:45.799 --> 00:21:49.880 Rodwell's lawyer just ripped these two witnesses to shreds on 399 00:21:49.920 --> 00:21:54.039 the witness stand. You know, in nineteen eighty jurors believed 400 00:21:54.279 --> 00:21:57.880 the government. They believed the prosecutors. They didn't you know, 401 00:21:57.920 --> 00:22:01.559