Speaker 1: It's Maria's MutS and Stuff. What a great idea on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: Welcome to Maria's Mutts and Stuff. And with me is
Speaker 2: co founder and managing partner of School Dogs, and that's
Speaker 2: Skool Brandon Womack. So, Brandon, it's going to be great
Speaker 2: to talk to you. Thanks for taking some time out today.
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me absolutely.
Speaker 4: So let's talk about school Dogs. How did it all begin?
Speaker 1: What?
Speaker 2: First of all, what is school Dogs for those who
Speaker 2: never heard of it before?
Speaker 3: So we are an innovative active shooter response canine program.
Speaker 3: And what that means is our dogs actually only respond
Speaker 3: to the sound of gunfire. Unlike a traditional police dog
Speaker 3: in which we teach a dog a bike command, the
Speaker 3: dog's actual engagement command is the sound of the gunfire.
Speaker 4: Amazing.
Speaker 3: Our dogs are training the run through a crowd of people,
Speaker 3: crowd of kids running at the dog, and teachers and
Speaker 3: staff members running towards the dogs. The dog will navigate
Speaker 3: through those individuals and only engage the person shooting the gun.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 4: Wow, So how long have you been around? When was
Speaker 4: this all started?
Speaker 3: We started right after the Parkland shooting in twenty eighteen,
Speaker 3: where seventeen individuals were killed, and we said to ourselves,
Speaker 3: we've been training dogs to do so many different things,
Speaker 3: and dogs are such a asset to what we do,
Speaker 3: and whether it's policing or military fire and arson, we
Speaker 3: use dogs for just about everything.
Speaker 4: Now sure yea.
Speaker 3: So we said we have to come up with a
Speaker 3: way to protect our kids while they're in school. And
Speaker 3: after the Parkland shooting, we said, man, that deputy stood
Speaker 3: outside for you know, there's really no accurate number. Some
Speaker 3: say twenty seven minutes, some say never in it't the building.
Speaker 3: And we said, man, how can we remove the human element,
Speaker 3: because as humans, we're thinking about men. You know, my pension,
Speaker 3: my husband, my wife, my kids, all these things that
Speaker 3: are going on. This dog doesn't think about any of that.
Speaker 3: The dog just says, men, every time I found that
Speaker 3: person shooting the gun, I got rewarded. I got paid,
Speaker 3: whether that was through a tug, whether that was through love,
Speaker 3: whether that was through affection, whatever that is, that dog
Speaker 3: got paid for that. So with that deputy standing outside
Speaker 3: for twenty seven minutes, which is the last account, we said,
Speaker 3: we have to do something. Let's remove the human elements
Speaker 3: so this dog can just be taken off leash when
Speaker 3: that dog's released, he will navigate through the building, through stairways,
Speaker 3: through doorways, whatever that may be, and find that person
Speaker 3: shooting the gun and go direct to that threat. What's
Speaker 3: also nice about our dogs is because they're cone shaped ears,
Speaker 3: they don't hear the same echo we hear. So when
Speaker 3: we hear that echo in these school buildings, because a
Speaker 3: lot of these school buildings are monstering, sure, and it's
Speaker 3: hard for us as humans actually decipher was that upstairs, downstairs?
Speaker 3: Was that down this hallway or that hallway. The dog
Speaker 3: actually doesn't hear that echo like we do. So she's
Speaker 3: extremely here. She is extremely direct the threat. And we
Speaker 3: know these Milly's Moulin walls, the German shepherds, the shepherds
Speaker 3: that we're using, they run anywhere from twenty to thirty
Speaker 3: miles per hour.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they're fast.
Speaker 3: We have a dog extremely So we have a dog
Speaker 3: coming that fast at you and either you're going to
Speaker 3: do a few things, hopefully the dogs can engage you. Right,
Speaker 3: you're going to drop that gun in your run, which
Speaker 3: if you do that, we consider that a win. At
Speaker 3: the endustry. You stop killing our.
Speaker 4: Kids, right, right, So, if you drop.
Speaker 3: That gun and pick off running. Hey both if.
Speaker 1: Win win, yeah, we'll take that.
Speaker 3: But if you don't, just understand, are dogs coming at you?
Speaker 4: That's right?
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, So let me ask you this, and
Speaker 2: this is maybe is a stupid question, but I'll assume
Speaker 2: that the dogs are they do they have like a
Speaker 2: bulletproof vest on as well to protect them, so the dog.
Speaker 3: Section or don't wear bullet ross invest they don't need
Speaker 3: to close them down.
Speaker 4: That's yeah, okay them down, Okay.
Speaker 3: So we know that through you know, researching. You know,
Speaker 3: when we started this program, we had at that time
Speaker 3: about six hundred and seventy two school shootings thatt reresearch,
Speaker 3: and we know most of those shooters that are engaging
Speaker 3: these in these accents out of our schools are normally
Speaker 3: students within that school or have been suitents in that school.
Speaker 3: So they're younger, right, So they're not for lack of
Speaker 3: better strims, they're not marksmen at target shooting. So you
Speaker 3: got to remember there it's about a nine inch target
Speaker 3: coming moving at twenty to thirty miles per hour. They're
Speaker 3: extremely hard to target. In addition, if they're using a
Speaker 3: high powered rifle of some sort, most likely that vest
Speaker 3: either may not stop that round or if it does that.
Speaker 3: You know, getting hit in a in a bullet resistant
Speaker 3: vest with a nine millimeters or forty caliber round is
Speaker 3: like a sledgehammer hitting you. So there's a good chance
Speaker 3: that dog may not survive even with a vest on,
Speaker 3: right right, you know, not tell everybody does fast or
Speaker 3: more for knife defense where you're going into a building
Speaker 3: and you know, we're worried about the dog being stabbed.
Speaker 1: Sure, most of these these shooting cases, these are inexperienced shooters,
Speaker 1: and it's hard for even experience shooters to be able
Speaker 1: to hit a target going at you know, that's a
Speaker 1: problem house.
Speaker 4: Per hour, right right, Yeah.
Speaker 3: And under stress and nerves and things like that.
Speaker 4: To add to that, sure, no, that makes sense.
Speaker 2: And also the element of surprise, because as you said,
Speaker 2: they're inexperienced shooters, they're just expecting people to be screaming
Speaker 2: and running. They're not expecting a powerful dog, a powerful
Speaker 2: large dog to come after them out of nowhere.
Speaker 3: Absolutely exactly right. Yes, another element we add to that
Speaker 3: in that response era, and we know that most of
Speaker 3: our dogs are handled by school resource officers, school police officers,
Speaker 3: and they're also going to be delivering around sound arrange
Speaker 3: onto target as well, so you know that shooter is
Speaker 3: going to that active shooter scenario is either he's gonna
Speaker 3: have to target the dog or target the officer that
Speaker 3: shooting at him.
Speaker 1: He can't do both, right, right, right?
Speaker 3: You know, our goal is to stop that threat as
Speaker 3: quickly as possible, and we don't believe there's anything unless
Speaker 3: you're putting a line in a school somehow, there's not
Speaker 3: much faster than than a dog coming at you at
Speaker 3: this point with the amount of training, we of.
Speaker 2: Course how and how long does it take to train
Speaker 2: a dog to be to be up to I don't
Speaker 2: want to say up to speed, but actually ready to
Speaker 2: go and do this job.
Speaker 3: So once the hard part is actually finding the right dog.
Speaker 3: And I can tell you we we a lot of
Speaker 3: times go through thirty forty to fifty dogs sometimes to
Speaker 3: find the right dog for the right school, right, okay,
Speaker 3: because it's not just a regular dog that we can
Speaker 3: import or that we can locate within the United States.
Speaker 3: It's you know, we have to look at the demographics
Speaker 3: of the school. For instance, we have dogs that are
Speaker 3: in pre K three through twelfth grade school, and then
Speaker 3: we have some matter in college campuses and high schools.
Speaker 3: So that demeanor of the dog needs to change because
Speaker 3: I have to be able to take that dog and
Speaker 3: introduce him to a three year old or four year
Speaker 3: old that's run to the dog and a doggy doggy
Speaker 3: doggie and hit the dog in the face, and that
Speaker 3: dog has to be like okay, enough.
Speaker 4: And not right, just walk away right right right, No,
Speaker 4: that makes sense.
Speaker 3: That is the hard part. Once we find the actual
Speaker 3: perfect dog for the school, that training process is normally
Speaker 3: anywhere from ten to fourteen weeks of on ground to
Speaker 3: get that dog certified as a certified school dog, and
Speaker 3: then we locate the trainer or excuming the handler that's
Speaker 3: going to handle the dog. That handler comes to eyeside
Speaker 3: our facility and we certify them then as a team
Speaker 3: for two to three weeks, and then we go to
Speaker 3: their school where the dog's going to work at, and
Speaker 3: we're there for two to three weeks to make sure
Speaker 3: there's no hiccups that you know, the demographics inside the
Speaker 3: school that are seen. There's no external factors that we
Speaker 3: need to be concerned with. But you know, the process
Speaker 3: from start to finish to obtaining a dog is about
Speaker 3: four to six months.
Speaker 4: Okay, now that that makes sense. I mean, yeah, I
Speaker 4: mean that makes sense.
Speaker 2: It's like it's like a service dog training about the same.
Speaker 3: Absolutely. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So then once okay, so now say we go through
Speaker 2: the process and then the dog is ready to go
Speaker 2: to the school. It's after the six months is the
Speaker 2: handler with the dog in the school or the dog
Speaker 2: is just they are So there was always like a
Speaker 2: handler and the dog in the school.
Speaker 3: Absolutely. So there's always a handler and the dog in
Speaker 3: the school because kids will do kid things, of course. Yeah,
Speaker 3: we believe our dogs are completely safe or kid friendlyders
Speaker 3: socialized of course, so a lot of our dogs are
Speaker 3: looked at as mascots. They have yearbook photos, they have
Speaker 3: sweet yeah, just really a part of the school, you know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, really.
Speaker 3: What we didn't recognize was the ripple effect that you know,
Speaker 3: we found, especially for instance, Meadow, which was our first
Speaker 3: dog placed in twenty eighteen. You know, that dog had
Speaker 3: this ripple effect in which, you know, we had a
Speaker 3: student that ended up printing out Meadow T shirts and
Speaker 3: Meadow pictures on T shirts and she had shoes with
Speaker 3: Meadows picture. And what we found out was that that
Speaker 3: young lady was on the spectrum at that point she
Speaker 3: was autistic, and what we found was that was her
Speaker 3: motivation to come to school each day.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 3: And you know, you know, with that was like, oh man,
Speaker 3: I didn't even think of that as a sure Hipple
Speaker 3: effect on. Hey, this was more than just protecting kids.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, it's more absolutely and I've heard that about
Speaker 2: with other cases. Yeah, and in your case, it's not
Speaker 2: just the job of protecting the kids, it's also helping
Speaker 2: the kids live their lives too, which is like, oh
Speaker 2: my god, it gives me chills. That's so because we
Speaker 2: love dogs so much, you know, and they're just so awesome.
Speaker 2: It just adds to how awesome they are, which we know, Wow,
Speaker 2: that's that's so very cool. So about I mean, is
Speaker 2: there approximate of how many schools you actually have the
Speaker 2: dogs in at this time?
Speaker 3: So right now we have four dogs deployed, so one
Speaker 3: in New Jersey, one in Ohio, one in Florida, and
Speaker 3: one in Tennessee. Where our dogs are currently deployed. We're
Speaker 3: actually putting Cumberland County Tech, which is in New Jersey,
Speaker 3: was our first school dog that we put in place
Speaker 3: in twenty eighteen, which is Meadow. Meadow's actually retiring after
Speaker 3: this school year, so they're getting their second dog. But
Speaker 3: you know that was our initial like, hey, how does
Speaker 3: this work? And we've learned so much along the way. Sure,
Speaker 3: but that's our four schools, and obviously every time there's
Speaker 3: an unfortunate incident, we get a lot of calls from
Speaker 3: different schools and different different states asking how does this
Speaker 3: program work? And I can tell you now we've had
Speaker 3: multiple calls just recently from other schools in Florida and
Speaker 3: Tennessee because they're starting to see, hey, these dogs are
Speaker 3: out this saw the program works. Sure, it's really an asset,
Speaker 3: you know, everybody. And then just to add to that
Speaker 3: real fast, our dogs are also trained to find guns
Speaker 3: and ammunition. So not only are they reactive right and
Speaker 3: effect that if you get something to say on your
Speaker 3: safe to Say Something line or or your reporting line,
Speaker 3: we can actually deploy the dog to search lockers and
Speaker 3: book bags and classrooms and bathrooms and things like that
Speaker 3: to be proactive and are approach to making sure our
Speaker 3: school campuses are safe.
Speaker 2: Sure, sure that Magical knows that that dogs have you know, really,
Speaker 2: it's true.
Speaker 4: It's so true.
Speaker 2: So now the school where Meadow is going to be retired,
Speaker 2: does Meadow get adopted. Does Meadow go with the handler?
Speaker 2: Like what happens to Meadow?
Speaker 3: Then yes, Meto actually will live a relaxing life this
Speaker 3: point full after retirement with their with Steve and there
Speaker 3: who's the handler of the dog. Those two have been
Speaker 3: partnered up since the very beginning. So you will retire
Speaker 3: and live with Steve and his other puppies.
Speaker 4: Ah, that's awesome.
Speaker 2: I love this program, and especially I mean because I
Speaker 2: just know every time and I mean you know this
Speaker 2: every time. Unfortunately we hear of a school shooting and
Speaker 2: then some school district is like, well, I think the
Speaker 2: teachers should be armed, and I always think, yeah, I
Speaker 2: don't think that's the solution, because you know, not every
Speaker 2: teacher is going to be able to be a marksman
Speaker 2: or a marxwoman, and they're teaching children, especially with young children,
Speaker 2: there's so much to be focused on, and oh suddenly
Speaker 2: a teacher is going to be you know, dirty Harry
Speaker 2: shooting the shooter.
Speaker 4: Like it doesn't make sense in my head, but this
Speaker 4: is like it's a dog.
Speaker 2: So the kids will be like, oh, there's a you know,
Speaker 2: like you said, it's a mascot. It's a pet for them.
Speaker 2: But it's also doing an incredible job. So it's just
Speaker 2: like you know, you said, you've been around since twenty eighteen.
Speaker 2: I almost feel like, woof, like eureka, why wasn't this
Speaker 2: thought of, you know, years and years ago, because it
Speaker 2: seems like it's such an easy solution.
Speaker 3: You know it is, And I think a lot of
Speaker 3: it is just the getting one the word out that
Speaker 3: we exist.
Speaker 4: Sure too, there.
Speaker 3: Is some like, you know, oh, this dog's only here.
Speaker 3: You know, there's a certain stereotype inside schools that hey,
Speaker 3: you know, this is a drug dog and this is
Speaker 3: you know, to get kids in trouble, and our dogs
Speaker 3: aren't made to get kids in trouble and need to
Speaker 3: keep them safe.
Speaker 4: See exactly.
Speaker 3: A lot of the political outlook on what we're doing is, oh,
Speaker 3: you know, you're bringing in this dogs to find drugs
Speaker 3: and to remove students from school. And you know, you
Speaker 3: have to reset that a lot in the mentality that
Speaker 3: we have right now. And you said it, you know,
Speaker 3: let's talk about arming teachers. My mom was a school
Speaker 3: teacher for thirty two years, and I can only imagine
Speaker 3: if somebody said, you know, to arm her.
Speaker 4: Right exactly. It's just so it's ridiculous to me.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, it just, you know, like a teacher's job
Speaker 2: is hectic and is exactly is to educate, not to
Speaker 2: play police officer. Like it just doesn't make sense. And
Speaker 2: every time I hear it, I'm like, you got to
Speaker 2: be kidding me. You know, they don't need another, you know,
Speaker 2: another thing to take on, especially with little kids, because
Speaker 2: that's like a you know. So I just feel like
Speaker 2: this is such a win win. Okay, so more process.
Speaker 2: If a school is listening right now and is interested,
Speaker 2: So I assume that there's a cost to this, correct
Speaker 2: to the training and to Okay, so let's talk about
Speaker 2: that a little bit.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, so to discuss the cost. So for right
Speaker 3: around thirty thousand dollars is our total cost for the dog,
Speaker 3: the full training, the certification, training for the handler, for
Speaker 3: us to actually deliver the dogs. So we don't let
Speaker 3: the handle leave with the dog. After their training, they
Speaker 3: normally fly back to their school and then a few
Speaker 3: days later we drive the dog to them with a
Speaker 3: team of two or three people and we go through
Speaker 3: the gunfired rules on their school campus. We have the
Speaker 3: assemblies with kids, so we spend two to three weeks
Speaker 3: on ground at their school to make sure they're good.
Speaker 3: In addition, they have everything they need from day one.
Speaker 3: They don't have to go out and go to a
Speaker 3: pet store or go on Amazon and find anything for
Speaker 3: that dog. When they leave us and we deliver that dog,
Speaker 3: the dog has callers, best, great pinnels, right, dog food.
Speaker 3: I mean, they've got a clean bill of health from
Speaker 3: the deck.
Speaker 4: Sure.
Speaker 3: Now what's also nice is we guarantee our dogs for
Speaker 3: five year workability automatically. So for some reason, four years
Speaker 3: and three hundred and sixty two days later, your dog
Speaker 3: decides he doesn't want to or hear she does not
Speaker 3: want to work anymore and scared a gun fire, we
Speaker 3: will actually replace that dog free of charge.
Speaker 4: Wow, okay, yeah, I mean because yeah, that.
Speaker 3: Dog, Yeah, ever killed in the line of duty, we
Speaker 3: replaced that dog one hundred percent. It could be year
Speaker 3: seven Meadows in year seven. Now, if Metal would get
Speaker 3: hurt or injured and killed in the line of duty,
Speaker 3: we will replace Meadows one hundred percent free of charge,
Speaker 3: no cost to the district.
Speaker 4: Right right now, you.
Speaker 3: Look at that absolutely so thirty thousand dollars over the
Speaker 3: life span of the dog. You know, we're seeing these
Speaker 3: dogs you know, Meadow's going to retire. She's going to
Speaker 3: be nine, right, because when we first started the program,
Speaker 3: that was the dog we got I think the dog
Speaker 3: was probably I think Metal was about two when we
Speaker 3: actually implemented her into the program, right, right, So this
Speaker 3: is her seventh school year, so she's good. She's either nine,
Speaker 3: are going to be nine? I can't remember.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, she's.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's time for her to retire and just enjoy
Speaker 2: the rest of her life exactly.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's kind of how our program works.
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I think it's I think it's wonderful and
Speaker 2: I mean, of course, and it's also you know, when
Speaker 2: you think about thirty thousand dollars, but you think about
Speaker 2: how many kids are in the school, and you know,
Speaker 2: for school to do the division, and what the protection
Speaker 2: is and over the years and how many years, I mean,
Speaker 2: it just comes out to not really that much money
Speaker 2: when you think about it that way.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, And we you know, whenever Metal went in, we
Speaker 3: looked at, okay, what's the cost look like it? You know, yearly,
Speaker 3: that cost is you know, right around twenty five hundred bucks.
Speaker 3: That's the certification, the vet care, the dog food, right,
Speaker 3: you know, so and you kept paradox of putting another
Speaker 3: officer on campus where you know you're going to be
Speaker 3: at fifty sixty seventy depending on the school year, school district, right,
Speaker 3: fifty sixty seventy thousand dollars a year for that officer
Speaker 3: plus health benefits four oh one K workers' compensation. Day
Speaker 3: are vacation. The dog doesn't take vacation. The dogs always
Speaker 3: seem to work because this is what the dogs love
Speaker 3: to do, exactly.
Speaker 4: That's right.
Speaker 3: There's no sick days. I mean, for the most part,
Speaker 3: the dog's there every day of the school year without
Speaker 3: too much, and you don't have the gripe of it
Speaker 3: of the dog. The dog just loves it being there
Speaker 3: and interacting. And you know, we make sure before that
Speaker 3: dog's employed that he's got that social ability so he knows, hey,
Speaker 3: every day, this is what I get to do. Right,
Speaker 3: And most of our dogs enjoy that aspect of what
Speaker 3: they do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, I mean that's the that's the basics
Speaker 2: about dogs. They love having a job. So you know,
Speaker 2: all these dogs have a job. I just think it's
Speaker 2: such a wonderful program. It just seems so it seems
Speaker 2: so simple. You know, when you when you break it
Speaker 2: down and you you have services for dogs throughout the country.
Speaker 4: Correct, Like, if somebody's.
Speaker 2: Listening right now in you know, North Carolina, they can
Speaker 2: reach out to you and say, hey, I have a
Speaker 2: you know, I work, I have a school in North Carolina.
Speaker 3: Absolutely. As I said before, we were actually in Florida, Tennessee,
Speaker 3: New Jersey, Ohio. Four dogs are now. No, that's talking
Speaker 3: about anywhere in the country. We can supply the doll
Speaker 3: you know, it may take us a little bit longer
Speaker 3: drive than like California or something, but you know, we
Speaker 3: always hand deliver the dolls. We never put them in
Speaker 3: a crate or throw them on a plane because you know,
Speaker 3: we want to make sure they are safely and sure
Speaker 3: to drive there without a problem.
Speaker 2: Wow, this is fascinating and it's just I think it's
Speaker 2: just so wonderful. So Brandon, So the purpose of this
Speaker 2: of our discussion is to get people to be aware
Speaker 2: of school dogs. So I know, because you have a
Speaker 2: great website that explains everything out. Uh So for someone
Speaker 2: who's listening, who is you know, works in a school
Speaker 2: or a school district or a council, you should go
Speaker 2: You can go to school. And that's s k o
Speaker 2: o ldogs dot com. Uh is it better for them
Speaker 2: to go through your website or to call or both either?
Speaker 4: What's the best way?
Speaker 3: You know? Either works. I always like to direct some
Speaker 3: people to our website. The reason is there's a lot
Speaker 3: of information on our website.
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, you.
Speaker 3: Know, they get to see the pictures and there's some
Speaker 3: links and they can actually get to see some of
Speaker 3: the videos. So absolutely check out the website. But as always,
Speaker 3: if there's any specific questions, feel free to give a call.
Speaker 3: And our actual numbers actually excuse me eight three three
Speaker 3: K nine school that's skoo l and that rings right
Speaker 3: to our cell phones if we're not in the office,
Speaker 3: and if we don't answer, we'll give you a call
Speaker 3: right back. Leave a message.
Speaker 4: That's so perfect.
Speaker 2: Well, Brandon Wollmac, thank you for thank you for talking
Speaker 2: about school dogs and for being you know, a co founder,
Speaker 2: because it really is.
Speaker 4: It's a wonderful organization.
Speaker 3: I was.
Speaker 2: I'm so happy that I was put in touch with
Speaker 2: you to talk to you and so I can educ
Speaker 2: I'm educated about you and my listeners can be as well.
Speaker 2: So keep doing what you are doing because you know
Speaker 2: you are saving lives and and it's really it's a
Speaker 2: very important thing because you know, it's I don't have
Speaker 2: to tell you the whole process, I mean not process,
Speaker 2: but the whole aspect of going to school and thinking, oh,
Speaker 2: you know, your child might not come home like we
Speaker 2: didn't have that when we were in school, you know,
Speaker 2: and I just it's mind boggling to me. So you know,
Speaker 2: there is always a solution to problems in this world,
Speaker 2: and you are making solutions and making things happen.
Speaker 4: So thank you for that, Brandon.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, thank you for having me today.
Speaker 4: Absolutely