Speaker 1: Thousands of people have mysteriously vanished in America's wilderness. Join
us as we dive into the deep end of the
unexplainable world and try to piece together what happened. If
you are listening to Locations Unknown.
Speaker 2: O, what's up everybody, and welcome back to another episode
of Locations Unknown. I'm your co host Joe Eroden with
me as always is a guy with the heart the
size of a basketball that's filled with ricotta cheese.
Speaker 3: Mike Vanderbogard. Oh, thank you, Joe. That's Bill brask Yes, yes,
legendary Bill Brass. Legendary Bill brad No. Thank you, Joe,
and thank you once again to all of our amazing
listeners for tuning in this week. Just a few updates
before we get go in. First, we've got a lot
of Patreon shoutouts to get to, so Ashley Rainer, Caris,
Kara Knutson, Rihanna Thomason, Greg, Jillian Lazar Lazaroni, sorry about that,
Grant Ritter, Jill Slazzarini, Lasarini, there you go, Tina Gatewood,
Katie Joe Williams, Renee Vorak, Richard Strak, Hoyt McCain and
Susan Sodo, So thank you so much for supporting the show.
We were excited, Joe and I. We're getting some new
audio equipment in here, hopefully by next episode. Yeah, pulled
it up.
Speaker 2: You have it right there, right right here. We're just
looking at it new. We got to set it up
and program it.
Speaker 3: New mixer for the table, We've got to throw it
over here, over here. Yeah, we've got some brand new
microphones coming in. So all the fun toys, all the
fun toys, and we wouldn't be able to do it
without the amazing support of all of our Patreon supporters
and everyone else that listens to the show. You want
to call the show and leave a voicemail, you can
call twoh eight three nine one six nine one three.
We've got some other interesting podcasts on our network, so
Off the Trails, Who runs this park? Crime, Off the Grid.
We've got a couple new ones coming on board every soon.
Speaker 2: We got one that's real close and one that we
just are going to sign in the next couple days.
Speaker 3: So yeah, new new shows coming on. And if you
want to support our show, we've got obviously our Patreon account,
YouTube membership's premium subscriptions on Apple and Spreaker. We've got
a store that sells some stuff you can buy that.
Joe's wearing one of our hats tonight, so I had like,
my hair is really bad.
Speaker 2: So yeah, had the hat set and there was like
I need to wear this our communal hat.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Outside of that, not a whole echoing on right show.
There's like almost nothing going out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's new about the show that has anything relevance Joe. Yeah,
obviously Joel briefly into it, and we're gonna we'll do
We're gonna do a Patreon episode next on it, and
then we're gonna be done talking about it. Yes, So
if you're not on socials, we posted a video two
weeks ago, Yeah, like a couple of days before Crime
Junkies released their latest episode, which I'll be nice. You
should go listen to it. And then if you were
wondering why we released a four part series on Gwynn Hasselquiz,
we released that when they released that episode two. Because
we were the ones who broke that case and they
actually picked that case up and did a whole story
on it. We were a little upset that they didn't,
you know, source us as the source. And for some
of you who are confused, we're not saying they can't
do the episode, but we were just saying that we
originated this story. It's not like we found it and
we reposted like podcasts do. There's only three podcasts that
did this us because we broke it. The I Luminol
podcast who called us and asked us for permission. We
said absolutely, and they credit us. And then Crime Junkies.
Speaker 3: Took all of our research. They did a great job.
Speaker 2: They summarized the episode in two about an hour, but
they just didn't source us, which it's fine, but lots
more detail in the four episodes that we did, so
if you didn't listen to it, and we're wondering why,
that's why we released that, just to give you a
more in depth viewing to the story. And as we'll
explain more in Patron, there's some sources that Crime Junkies
doesn't have because we didn't publish them, and we have
some more information that we're putting together. So you want
to learn more about that, you're gonna have to be
a Patron subscriber. Promise it's not a money grab, but
we don't have a lot of information. We can give
on the live airge just yet.
Speaker 3: Yes, So that's that's a little description of what's going on. Yeah,
we're gonna talk about it one more time on the
Patreon episode because we haven't really talked about it, and
then we're gonna be done because there's nothing else we
can do about it.
Speaker 2: And I do want to end on saying I am
glad it's getting traction. Yeah, So outside of all the
stuff we talked about, we've always wanted that story to
get big, and by having the biggest true crime podcast
do that story, it's going to get big. So we're
very happy that that's happening. So are Gwen's friends and
family exactly.
Speaker 3: All right?
Speaker 2: All right, everybody, let's gear up and get out to
explore locations unknown. November twelfth, twenty twelve, an avid runner
and hiker fails to report into work after going hiking
at the Confederate Breastworks Trail in George Washington National Forest.
After only a few personal items were found, we were
left with more questions than answers. Join us this week
as we investigate the disappearance of Bert Fitzgerald.
Speaker 3: All Right, someday we should just like when we hit
it big, one of the episodes we'll have like the
theme music done live. Because I was I was scrolling through.
Speaker 2: Most people don't see what we're doing now. The sound
is always faking a violin.
Speaker 3: We are always doing really dumb. But no, I was
just scrolling mindlessly through Instagram the other day and I
came across the video of this band remember the music
back in the day if you were on hold, like oh, like, yes,
well they do that song live.
Speaker 2: I I think I've seen this. I think you've shared
it with Were there like a live show and they're
playing it verbatim?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yes, they were so good. They were at a
music festival where they played it for eight hours straight
and it's just hilarious. So we got it. Someday do
that and you know when we hit the.
Speaker 2: Big time, Yeah, well we'll get we'll get a we'll
get a like the Milwaukee Symphony Orchestra.
Speaker 3: To our breakdown music.
Speaker 2: If we get big enough and have that kind of money,
I think you know me, I'm gonna egg you on
to do it. Yeah, and I'll just annoy you until
you cave. It's gonna cost us like fifty grand.
Speaker 3: I don't know what it would cost.
Speaker 2: I need two minutes recorded at your practice of this
song rent out the symphony. So anyway we are gonna
hear about the story of Robert Fitzgerald.
Speaker 3: We've never done a case in Virginia, really, I don't
think so.
Speaker 2: Okay, well, maybe we'll find out. I don't think somebody
will let us know we haven't.
Speaker 3: They just listened to recently. We do. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Where we're going today is the George Washington National Forest
or the sub location the Confederate Breastworks trailhead on the
Shenandoah Mountain, Shenandoah Shenandoah Mountain, Shenandoah Mountain, Virginia, as you said,
it was established on five sixteen in nineteen eighteen as
the Shenandoah National Forest and renamed to George Washington National
Forest in nineteen thirty two. It sees roughly three million
visitors per year. Some interesting facts about Virginia. Virginia received
its name from England's virgin Queen Elizabeth the first. More
than half of all American Civil War battles were fought
in Virginia. The Pentagon, which sits on Virginia soil, is
the largest office building in the world. I didn't know
that's the largest office building in the world. Is it
because it goes.
Speaker 3: Down so deep? I think it's just that big. That's wild.
Speaker 2: I would never guess that. Yeah, I feel like I
don't believe that.
Speaker 3: I've seen it in person from a highway. It's big.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I'm just thinking like tall skyscrapers. Yeah, Like
I wonder if it's because it's like one hundred floors deep,
secret military base.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the biggest one, you know, with the floors
they know about. It's just it's really big. Yeah. Okay, right,
I'm gonna believe you. Yep, to see what happens.
Speaker 2: Virginia is home to the second oldest college in the
United States, the William and Mary found It was founded
in nineteen or sixteen ninety three.
Speaker 3: Holy Cow at a Slowdown.
Speaker 2: Virginia is sometimes called the birthplace of the nation because
the American Revolution was ended with a surrender in Yorktown, Virginia. Williamsburg,
Virginia houses the first theater built in America. It was
completed in seventeen sixteen. When Virginia seceded from the Union,
the state's residents found themselves divided between Union and Confederate supporters.
In protest, fifty Virginian counties split off from the state
to form their own state of the West Virginia. Kentucky
co from the land that once belonged to Virginia. In fact,
Kentucky used to be Kentucky County Virginia until seventeen ninety two. Berkeley,
Virginia claims to have had the first Thanksgiving two years
before the Plymouth Thanksgiving in sixteen twenty one. They just
didn't have good marketing. That's the problem.
Speaker 3: People forget history here. America does go back pretty far. Yeah,
that's wild. Sixteen twenty one was quite a way while ago.
Speaker 2: Virginia handles roughly seventy percent of the world's Internet traffic
through massive data centers under the Pentagon On A little
bit about the climate in George Washington National Forest along
the Shenandoah Mountain experiences a humid continental mountain climate where
elevation sharply influences temperature and weather patterns. Winters are cold
and often harsh, with snow, sleet, and freezing rain common
from November through March. Nighttime lows frequently dip into the
twenties or lower, that is, in fahrenheit. The Strong Ridge
winds make it feel even colder. Summers are pretty mild
compared to the surrounding valleys. Days are usually warm seventies
and eighties fahrenheit, but temperature drops quickly after sunset, and
mountain thunderstorms can develop with little warning. Autumn brings crisp,
dry air and bright foliage, but also shorter days and
the first freezes of the season. By early November, overnight
temperatures often hover near freezing at the Confederate Breastworks Overlook,
that is at three thy four hundred feet in elevation.
The region receives about forty five inches of precipitation annually,
spread fairly evenly throughout the year, a mix of rain
in the warmer months and snow and ice in the
winter months. Because Shenandoah Mountain forms a high ridge line,
dense fog and cloud banks often settle over the area,
reducing visibility to only a few feet and making navigation
difficult even for experienced hikers. During November of twenty twelve,
when Robert Fitzgerald went missing, local reports described cold, overcast,
drizzling weather with nighttime lows in the teens, conditions that
would have created a serious risk of hypothermia or disorientation
for anyone exposed overnight.
Speaker 3: So a little bit about the terrain.
Speaker 2: The disappearance area sits on the crest of Shenandoah Mountain
along US two fifty at the Confederate Breastworks or Fort
Edward Johnson Overlooked trailhead, a short interpretive loop on a
narrow ridge with the Civil War earthworks and immediate access
to longer back country trails from the overlook. The Shenandoah
Mountain Trail runs. The ridge line generally gentle and walkable
to the top, but it connects to side trails and
old drainages, creating quick transitions from easy crest walking to
demanding descents. Elevations on the ridge system range roughly between
three thousand, three hundred feet or forty three hundred feet,
with narrow wooded corridors and periodic views. Footing varies from
dirt to rocky uneven tread, typical of a ridge and
valley terrain just each Just east of the ridge lines,
Ramsey's Draft Wilderness, a landscape explicitly described as rugged and steep,
with old growth virgin like forest pockets along the draft,
reinforcing how quickly benign river trail can give way to
deep complex.
Speaker 3: Hellows ridge trail, ridge trails, ridge travel, ridge travel. We'll
get it right eventually. Vegetation on I had been just hiking,
like in the middle of the night.
Speaker 2: I'm still not that's true my sleep. That's what I
did for Veterans Day. I joined my buddy and hiked
from midnight to five am.
Speaker 3: In a loop kinda in a city.
Speaker 2: So it was like like hiking on a trail and city. Yes,
so I'm still tired. So vegetation on and below the
crest includes mixed hardwoods, which are oaks, maples, and hickories
with rhododendrons and dense mountain laurel thickets. In places, brush
that can choke visibility and force hand and knee travel
off trail. You do not want to be doing that, No,
especially if you can't see anywhere. The Jerry's Run connector
and nearby sections of the Shenandoah Mountain Trail are noted
as remote, with long stretches of mature forest and few bailouts.
Even where the ridge is easy, the backcountry feel and
distance between access points increases consequences for minor navigation errors,
so overall, narrow ridge, steep side hallows, thick understory, rocky footing.
It's a classic search and rescue challenge in Nightmare with
limited sightings to and sound dampening, and rapid train changes
within small horizontal distances. So it's like just not a
place you want to get lost in, and seems like
you can also get stuck in some of the like
perfect storm situations where visibility's gone, you're gonna have to
crawl around. You could accidentally go off these shoots.
Speaker 3: Yep. So just wild hiking. Yeah, tough place to hike.
And I was reading some accounts from people that live there,
that hunt in there and even experience people that have
been hunting their whole lives get lost routinely. Yeah, that's
that's kind of freaky. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So types of dangers outside of that, we have black bear,
white tailed deer.
Speaker 3: White tail is probably not dangerous.
Speaker 2: Let's to like upset and ca you bobcats, coyote, red fox,
wild turkey, grouse, hawks, and timber rattlesnakes, as well as
northern copperheads.
Speaker 3: So hazards Robert or.
Speaker 2: Anyone hiking in the area at that time might encounter.
The biggest one would be cold wet and wind chill exposure,
so hypothermia risk would be very big. As we said,
the ridges here run about ten degrees cooler than the valleys.
Winter can bring snow and ice and win greatly accelerates
heat loss. So short daylight windows would add to this.
In Stoughton, which is the closest city early to mid November,
daylight is only ten hours and sunsets near five oh
five to five ten pm, so increasing the after dark
navigation exposure risk. So it's getting dark and hard to
see and colder very early.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The adjacent Ramsey's Draft wilderness is explicitly described as rugged
and steep, dense understory and rough trail head so off
trail or lesser pass can be choked by mountain laurel rhododendron.
Speaker 3: We kind of went over that again.
Speaker 2: Stream crossings can be hazardous, especially if it's cold, so
if it's not frozen, you can get wet and then
you have Yeah, it can be impassable at high waters
in the nearby drainages. So that's the Ramsey's Draft or
Jerry's Run. And as we said before, rapid weather shifts,
so mountain conditions can change quickly. Ridges often see low
clouds or fog, making navigation visual signal difficult. And lastly,
there's limited cell service, so there's sparse bailouts where you
can get to areas that have remote coverage, So you
don't want to rely on a phone for help or
navigation directly unless you've a downloaded map. Yeah, the active
hunting seasons in November. Virginia's early muzzleloader or deer season
runs in early mid November. That's where you're like loading
one bullet at a time, old school method with blaze
orange safety strongly recommended around hunters. And then the wildlife
encounters black bear do remain active into late fall, but
you're not going to they're going to be getting ready
for hibernation if they haven't ready, and you're going to
see timber rattle. Snakes are very are a lot lessive,
but can e merge on warm days. So outside of that, Mike,
you want to give us a little bit about mister Fitzgerald.
Speaker 3: So the name of tonight's case is Robert Bobby Ray Fitzgerald.
Date of birth was April twentieth. We're not really sure
the year. It wasn't publicly available. His presumed date missing
was November twelfth of twenty twelve. He was a male,
age sixty. Body description. He was white Caucasian male, red hair,
hazel eyes. He was five foot eleven, one hundred and
sixty pounds. He had red hair, hazel eyes. Like I said,
Claude Ungeary was last seen and unknown. There was some
gear found in his car, so he had a flashlight, food,
power bars, water and other hiking supplies, but we don't
have a description of what he actually was wearing when
he was hiking. Personality hobbies. He was described by why
MCA staff is quiet, soft spoken, and kind. He was
a daily visitor to the Staunton Augusta Family YMCA. There
were no publicly available medical issues he occupation he worked.
I think he worked for a sighting company. I have
it listed here somewhere. But he also was an avid
runner and hiker. He was very interested in fitness and nutrition,
and like I said, he was a frequent and daily
visitor to the local YMCA experience in the wilderness. He
was characterized by family and friends as a very experienced
hiker and was very fit for his age and experiencing
that location. He was familiar with the Shenando Mountain Confederate
Breastworks area. He had hiked there the day before his
disappearance and had reportedly lost his phone. So we'll jump
right in the timeline here. At some point, Joe, do
you want to pull up all trails of the trail
he was on at some point? Maybe I will, Maybe
I won't, Maybe I will. Maybe. Well, we'll see how
it goes.
Speaker 2: See if you start talking a little bit nicer to me,
he I'll pull it up right to pull up a
picture of him real quick, Okay, but yeah, I'll get
it going.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So for those just listening, Joe, is a picture
of Robert on the screen. Yeah. So our timeline starts Sunday,
November eleventh, of twenty twelve. Bobby was planning to hike
about six to seven miles on the Confederate Breastworks Shenandoah
Mountain area with a friend, and at some point during
this hike he ended up losing his cell phone and
reportedly a shirt, and it turned out later a different
hiker from the Charlottesville area found his phone that same
day and placed it in her pack and was later
trying to reach out to the owner. Midweek, and according
to some reports that I found his cell phone was
actually found very close to the parking lot, so not
very far off trail. It's now Monday, November twelfth, of
twenty twelve, and investigators believe Bobby returned to the trailhead.
A sheriff, Randy Fisher, believes he likely set out on
a four hour we're roughly out and back hike around
one fifteen pm. And like Joe had mentioned in the
climate section of the case, whether at that time was cold,
it was overcast, there was some drizzle. Nighttime tempts that
week dipped into the teens, so not the kind of
weather you'd want to be stuck out in the woods.
And the sheriff right away started discussing hypothermia risks and
actually talked about paradoxical undressing and burrowing, which we've discussed
many times on the show. Joe, maybe he'll grace us
with his story of Nope, not gonna of Colorado.
Speaker 2: After someone complained about hearing it for like the fifteenth time. Sorry,
there's new listeners. I will never let that go. I
when I read that, Cob and I was laughing, Yeah,
I mean it's true. I do repeat thing. If you're
anyone who's friends with me knows I repeat stuff too much.
Speaker 3: But yeah, it's just the early onset dementia CA. Yeah, honestly,
I think it probably is a problem I should have,
but no, I enjoy hearing the story and they had it.
Nice of you to say. We had some listeners saying
they never heard it. So we'll have Joe Tellet in
detail in the Patreon episode. Yeah, if you want to
hear it of episode it is now Thursday, November fifteenth
of twenty twelve. So this is when Bobby failed to
report for work. He worked at the plyj He worked
at ply Gem and the Stanton Police initiated a missing
person's report and the Augusta County Sheriff's Office or ACSO
checked the parking lot at Confederate Breath, the Confederate Breastworks
parking lot, and that's where they found Bobby's vehicle. It
was a two thousand and one Kia and like I said,
inside his vehicle they found his trail pack. They found
power bars, food, water bottles, flashlight, and a rain poncho
and jacket. So you really get the impression that he
wasn't planning to be out there long. He was just
there to look for his lost phone, because why else
would you leave all that stuff in your car. So
that evening the formal search really began, and like I said,
some reports stated that his cell phone was found very
close to the trailhead, which again would explain why maybe
he left all of his gear in the car, because
if you're planning on doing a pretty long hike in
this kind of environment, you would you'd probably want to
take your backpack with you. It's now evening, this would
be day one of the search, so the search begins
on Shenandoah Mountains, centered on the Confederate Breastworks trailhead. Early
reports from Search and Rescue noted that it was very rugged,
steep train and like I said, the overnight lows were
in the teens. At this time, authorities were asking the
public for help any hunters or hikers. They were actually
telling people to avoid the areas so they wouldn't contaminate
the sense for the canine units, so they had canine us.
It's out in this search very early. It's now Friday,
November sixteenth. ACSO states that Bobby had likely been missing
for days. Resources on scene included thirty five volunteers, eight
canine units and a Virginia State Police helicopter. Search managers
continued to expand hasty and grid searches radiating from the
Trailhead parking area. So unfortunately this is a scenario where
they didn't get out there looking for him for a
few days, which it's critical usually to get out in
the field and look as soon as possible, especially in
these conditions.
Speaker 2: And that location was correct. Okay, it's this Confederate Breastworks
interpretive site is the start Yeah, as confirmed by the
friends of the Shenandoah Mountain page as well as the
Forest Service page. Okay, so yep, it just has.
Speaker 3: A bunch of different names and none of them are
listed appropriately. Y So I have some interesting I found
some interesting sources on in the app actual search methods
used in this case. So they used what they called
a lost person behavior profiling to set probabilities and tasking.
Air sent canines not just trailing were deployed. Teams carry
GPS so managers could layer completed tracks over maps to
reduce the haystack, and like I said, a public request
was made to avoid the area to protect the canine
cent work. Kind of interesting, that's cool, very technical and
detailed search was used. It's now Saturday, November seventeenth of
twenty twelve. Ground teams, tracking dogs and aircraft continue the
search effort in the mountains. Media notes this is the
third day of the act of searching a sense of
the initiation, and this is when the Charlottesville hiker's phone
find is made known to the investigators. So they just
found out that a separate hiker had found his phone. Sunday,
November eighteenth of twenty twelve, cadaver dogs were alerted multiple
times in steep Laurel Thicket between Shenandoah Mountain Trail and
Ramsey's Draft Trail. Teams recanvassed that zone on November nineteenth
and again later in the week. The search footprint now
totaled over forty five hundred acres and fifty miles of trail,
and there were over two hundred personnel involved across the operation,
including canines, mounted and helicopter searchers. This is a pretty
big search, forty five hundred acres fifty miles the trail.
They had people on horses that had eight canine units, helicopters. Yeah,
it's a lot of people. That's a lot of such
a small area that you could be in. Yeah, well
the thing is too it's super thick and the canopy
is really thick and would be hard to see from
the air. Though in November maybe the leaves are starting
to come down, so that might help a little. It's
now Monday, November nineteenth of twenty twelve. After five days
of organized sch so Thursday through Monday, officials officially suspended
the search Monday night as they had no confirmed findings.
The Virginia Department of Emergency Management confirmed the decision, and
then news media had picked this up. Overall footprint across
the five days of searching, like I said, it was
forty five hundred acres fifty miles of trail, two hundred
plus personnel. They had canine units, mounted units, they had
a Virginia State Police helicopter, and their primary focus was
on Confederate Breastworks, Shenado Mountain Trail and Jerry's Run trail.
Maybe see if all trails has either of those trails
up and like I said, the train by the searchers
described the train as very steep, rugged mountain laurel up
to six feet offen forcing hand and knee searching and
limited grid searches, so they really weren't able to fully
do a proper search just because of the ruggedness of
this area. Oh and what do you have up here?
Speaker 1: It is?
Speaker 3: Okay, so this is I.
Speaker 2: Think where the shenandoh no, that's different, but it's on
two fifty. There's two fifty, yeah, okay, far three ninety six.
Speaker 3: What was the other one called? It was Shenandoah Mountain
Trail and Jerry's Run trail and confrederit Confederate Breastworks Trail,
which is the.
Speaker 2: Shortest here is Confederate Breastworks Trail right here? Okay, like
it doesn't it shows the trail on here, but no
one's ever recorded it.
Speaker 3: Hmm, all right, that's fine. Yeah. So he went missing
somewhere in this area, in this area, yeah, okay, we believe,
we don't know. Maybe he did. Maybe he did.
Speaker 2: And so they found all this stuff, well his car,
the car was there, and like I said, it was
very tough to search.
Speaker 3: In this area and very interesting though. The cadaver dogs
were alerted multiple times on that Sunday and they recanvassed it,
but nothing was found. So now late November to December
of twenty twelve within days of the search suspension, and
experienced K nine team actually returned to the area and
did another ten hours of searching on the day after Thanksgiving,
and then seventeen volunteers searched another six hours and another
ACSO K nine pass occurred in December, so they stayed
out there after the official search was ended and continued
looking and even after Thanksgiving they're out there doing that,
So hats off to those people. We had more news
reports January twenty thirteen, local media was reporting on community
group that was planning additional searches. It's now. In July
twenty ninth of twenty thirteen, the ACSO released a missing
person's update. They just summarized the investigation and lost phone.
They believed he returned to the hike on eleven twelve.
His car was found on eleven fifteen. Multiple searches on
several occasions with absolutely nothing found, no gear, absolutely nothing.
Only thing was they had some cadaver dogs alert a
few times. On that Sunday, March fifteenth of twenty fourteen,
there was a blog that kind of must have been
from a local person that recapped the loss of his
phone and his presumed return to the trail and they
actually provided some local photos for context of the search,
which was kind of interesting. And July third of twenty fourteen,
we had more media follow up on the case. They
reported that Bobby was off part of that week and
wasn't reported missing until November fifteenth, which we covered in
the timeline. And between November twenty sixteen and November twenty seventeen,
this was the four and five year anniversary of his disappearance.
There was actually a fifty thousand dollars reward mentioned, and
authorities restated their belief that he had returned to find
his phone. So, now this is a very interesting bit
of information and I don't understand why it took until
twenty seventeen to come out, but a local media outlet
reported that at the time of his disappearance, his residence
was found in total disarray, with old food still inside
his stove and his car in a mess, with one
quoted source raising concerns about possible depression and maybe a suicide.
So did it make it seem like that's not how
he normally lived. Yeah, it was mentioned as odd that
his house would have been found in that way, and
it was okay, it was then people online found it
very interesting why this was only reported in twenty seventeen.
Why this wasn't part of the original reporting on the case. Yeah,
it seems relevant. Yeah, April twenty twenty one, this was
the local YMCA named April twenty twentieth Bobby Fitzgerald Day
a sharing background on his routine and the case, and
again a lot of local media echoed the core of
facts of the case. Interestingly, May twenty twenty four, a
body was founded near the Confederate Breastworks in Highland County,
but it was after analysis was not Bobby Fitzgerald. His
case still remained open.
Speaker 2: Those always freaked me out, Like how many episodes have
we done were like, we found a body, but it's
not the guy we were looking for.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we just found a body out there. Oh like
that just and sometimes they don't even know, like there
was no missing person case. Yeah, they just found a body. Yeah,
that's that's so wild. It's sad too that someone could
go missing and pass away out in the wilderness and
they're like the last of their lineage. Well no, like
no one reported a missing That's what I'm saying. Yeah,
the last one of their life. No, maybe their parents
were gone, no friends, no wife, no kids. Think about
it this way.
Speaker 2: How many people do you know that you haven't had
contact with since college? You don't know how they're doing?
Speaker 3: Quite a few.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, if you imagine, like someone could go missing
and be gone deceased, and but think of there could
be so many people that knew that person, yeah, but
aren't close enough to like check in on them.
Speaker 3: But like even a job, like you don't show up for,
how many jobs are going to have? We have employee
when missing, We have employees ghosts all the time, and
you don't file missing especially not. Yeah, it's just like
all right, I guess they didn't want to come to
work anymore. Yeah, but yeah, I just I always find
that sad and kind of scary. Like you said, they'll
be searching for someone and just find a body. Yeah,
that's oh messed up. Yeah. And now even stranger with
this case was May twenty twenty five, there was a
different man named Scott Fitzgerald who went missing in the
Shenandoah Mountain area and then was found. Right, so they
got one of the Fitzgerald's and the guy that they
found was I believe thirty three years old.
Speaker 2: I was when I was looking through it switch screens
because I was scrolling.
Speaker 3: I have it showing now.
Speaker 2: All of a sudden, I'm scrolling through and it's like
Fitzgerald found. And I was like, Mike, I hope this
ends with found.
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: No, so no, ye, mister Fitzgerald has been located and
is safe.
Speaker 3: And I'm like what I open it up. I'm like,
this is a different guy.
Speaker 2: What are the odds? Yeah, yeah, there he is. This
is not the guy we're doing the episode on. No
Scott Wayne Fitzgerald. He's thirty three May sixteenth, twenty twenty five?
Was it he was last seen?
Speaker 3: He's okay, looks like he was probably a hunter and
got lost. Is there a lot of Fitzgerald's in Virginia?
I don't know. But what are the chances two of
them go missing in the same area. I don't know. Well,
pretty good apparently, I guess so. Oother note I had
on this case was no itinerary. His pack was left
in the car date uncertainty. So we don't we know
his car. His pack's left in the car, Yep, no itinerary.
His phone was found near the car, he said, right
by a separate hiker by a separate hiker, or is
his shirt found? Does it mention that? No mention of
the shirt? Okay, all right, So it's just it's kind
of just strange. And his car is there, but and
his phone was found near the parking lot, but there's
no evidence he went further than the parking lot. Really,
so we don't know. We don't know what happened to him.
They never found him. So what are the main theories?
And this case is still open to this day unsolved.
Not a single thing of his was found outside of
the phone in the car. To want to know, how
many people are named Fitzgerald in Virginia, let's hear it.
Speaker 2: According to my namestats dot com, there's about two hundred
and eighteen Fitzgerald's, Yeah, which puts the estimate at sixty
two point sixty six people named Fitzgerald per one hundred
thousand Virginians.
Speaker 3: So he is more than normal. I doubt it. I
don't know.
Speaker 1: Is that.
Speaker 3: Is that a lot? A lot?
Speaker 2: Short answer, it's a solid amount, but not wild, as
a chat ChiPT.
Speaker 3: Told me, all right, so likely theories, it's I'm gonna
use that. It's a solid amount, but it's not wild.
You have kind of like a sassy like ai oh,
I have a whole personality. My chat gips a whole personality,
all right. So I'll go through theories that law enforcement
floated at the time, and then we'll get into our
theories and then wrap it up. The most likely theory
that law enforcement was talking about, and they even started
talking about this early on in the search, was hypothermia
after getting lost. The main reasons why this theory fits
with this case is he is, like we said, believed
to have returned alone on the twelfth to look for
his lost phone. His car was found at the parking lot.
He was solo. He was solo traveling in the cold, wet,
windy condition on a high ridge, very exposed. Media reports
at the time noted it was cold, overcast, drizzling, It
got very cold into the teens at night. These are
classic hypothermia conditions, and I.
Speaker 2: Want to hear a story about hypothermia maybe later.
Speaker 3: And multiple cadaver dogs were alerted and they did recanvas areas,
but no remains were found, and a lot of the
searchers said this is consistent with how difficult and brushy
the terrain was and how someone who was hypothermic could
have gone missing. So why this theory might not fit
perfectly is they did do an extensive ground and air
search operation. They had eight canine units out there, forty
five hundred acres fifty miles a trail, two hundred people.
They didn't locate anything, no remains nothing of them, which
slightly is against the he just collapsed near the trail
or something. Next theory that was floated was a traumatic accident.
We talk about this all the time. Obviously, the reasons
why this would potentially fit this case is the ridge
quickly gives way to steep, rugged terrain. When the Ramsey's
Draft wilderness was described as rugged and steep by the
search teams. Off trail slips could funnel a person into
drainages with dense mountain vegetation that would make it really
hard for search and rescue to find them from the
air or from up above on a trail and canines
were alerting in the area and they re canvassed the zone,
which some search managers were assessing downhill movement from the
ridge as applausible theories based on how the dogs were
alerting and the terrain in the direction they were alerting.
They were thinking like maybe he was attempting to go
downhill or fell downhill. So why this theory doesn't work
kind of fits into the first theory is they had
repeated multi day coverage with helicopters, canines, all of that stuff,
and no definitive evidence clothing, gear remains were found. He
could have been just cloaked by the dense vegetation in
the area, which is why they didn't find him. But
why the dogs were alerting.
Speaker 2: I gotta be honest, and I know they're professionals and
saying it is it doesn't seem that crazy steep compared
to other images, like when I'm going through images in
this trail. Yeah, and I'm not saying I'm right, I'm
just saying it's not wild compared to some of the
other areas I've seen with like steep cliffs and drop offs.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, it's not like hiking in Colorado on it.
So that's kind of what I'm getting at.
Speaker 2: It's like we've done stories where people have found a
lot more in way worse areas than this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what's kind of I mean, what's the place
in by Madison, Wisconsin. Devil's Levels lake. That's kind of
what it feels like. But I could see somebody in
a storm in the winter getting hypothermia and falling off
something and hurting themselves and it's pretty thick there. Yeah,
but it's so easy to But the Devil's Blake is
far less remote than this. Yeah, this is more remote,
but I'm not seeing anything.
Speaker 2: I Like I said, if someone, I would love comments
from people who live in this area that have hiked it.
Give me a real and look up. Maybe the Shenandoah Trail.
Maybe some of the descriptions are the trails go over
ridge lines.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it could just be this one. And I can
tell you from and you know this when we've gone
hiking and you're actually there and you're looking over the
trails and stuff. It's steep, and then when you go
back and look at pictures, it doesn't do it justice.
You're kind of looking at it and you're like, oh,
this it kind of doesn't even look like the place
you hiked.
Speaker 2: No, that's not true. I'm right, yeah, right, Okay, No, No,
I know I know what saying. Where it could be
worse than it's looking.
Speaker 3: I've looked at lots of old hiking pictures from glacier
and yeah, you're like, it's way more beautiful canyon lands,
and I remember it being far steeper than like the
pictures do justice. Yeah so maybe right, No, I'll give
it to you. In that one, it does look very
The vegetation looks incredibly thick. It is thick. Yeah, there
is that. But see, this is where I agree with
the pictures were looking at. Now, don't look.
Speaker 2: I'm biased because I just don't go off trail. So
even if you can't see it's to me, it's actually
so thick it keeps funneling you on the trail. You'd
have to like very specifically be fighting and bushwhacking off
trail in these.
Speaker 3: Situations, unless you're you have hypothermia and aren't thinking that.
Speaker 2: Okay, But even then I feel like I'm not going
to tell the story. But it's not like they just
wandered off trail. They followed the trail just the wrong way.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So unless there's a drainage and he thought it was
a trail and just followed that, I could see.
Speaker 3: That at night. Yeah it's night. I mean, yeah, a
lot of these pictures, I it looks like in northern
wiscons okay, like that, you know, if like you fell
off something like that, Yeah, that would hurt you. Yeah.
Or this trail in the middle here, like yeah, this guy,
that guy right there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, some of these look pretty okay. I'll give it
to you that this is the Shenandola Trail.
Speaker 3: And I can tell you from hiking up in northern Wisconsin,
like the Nicola National Forest, it doesn't have anything mountainous,
but it has hundreds of miles of criss crossing trails
and if you got confused and started wandering around, you
would go deep, deep into the forest and yeah, probably
not no one would find you. So is that a threat? Yeah,
I get what you're saying. Yeah, So I mean, all right,
I retort. Yeah, if George Washington National Forest is anything
like the National Forest in Northern Wisconsin, even if it
doesn't have a lot of terrain hazards, there's a lot
of ways you could just get completely lost out of
the search zone and not be found. Yeah, and if
there's coyotes, bears, things are gonna disturb the remains at
some point.
Speaker 2: And I actually think you said it best. It's pretty
dang remote. Okay, Yeah, I don't know. I still have
it doesn't change my theory that I'm thinking.
Speaker 3: Okay, go on. Another theory was medical emergency. So why
this theory fits? So he was sixty, he was hiking
alone in cold, wet, windy conditions on uneven terrain. A
sudden medical event our standard hypotheses for search and rescue
teams when there's no foul play indicated and no phone
which would have prevented a nine to one one call
and a collapse off the main trailhead step off to
maybe relieve oneself, check a viewpoint, or pursue a lost
phone could put him out of you in the dense vegetation. Now,
why this doesn't work is the same reason we've said
this for all the theories is they did a really
intense search, and I think out of all of a
medical emergency would be the least likely because say you're
just hiking down the trail and you have a widow maker,
you would just collapse on trail, yeah, and they'd find you.
Totally totally agree on that one, So who knows, might
not be a theory. So two more theories that are
less likely, So a hunting related incident. So why this
could potentially work for this case is Like Joe mentioned,
November is a core period for deer season in Virginia,
and local reporting at the time noted hunting activity was
going on in the area and the sheriff and retrospective
coverage flagged the context of an active muzzleloader season that month.
But the probability of this is very low, It's not zero.
But could something have happened where he was shot by
a hunter? Possibly? There were no reports of gunfire complaints
in that area. There was no recovered evidence of someone
being shot, or of shotgun shells or anything like that.
Authorities mentioned this, but it really isn't a theory that
really has any weight to it. And I guess the
final two theories are voluntary disappearance, So this one we
always mention. Investigators focused on accidental missing hiker framework. He
lost his phone, he believed to have returned to find it,
failed to report to work. Public profiles highlight his steady
routine and strong community ties, which all goes against a
voluntary disappearance, and none of the official recaps suggest a
planned departure, and absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
It's a theory, but it really has no weight. That's
your boomgos to dynamite for the show, yeah Boa And
finally suicide. I guess you could call a theory only
because of the one news media article report of his
house being in disarray, his car being a mess, no itinerary, nothing,
But most people didn't put a lot of weight in
that just because he had strong ties in the community,
he was very fit and active and everyone that knew
him he had no impression that he was going through something.
Obviously doesn't mean he wasn't, but based on all the evidence,
suicide is a very low probability for this case. So
with all that being said, what is your theory, Joe?
Speaker 2: Well, I feel like my theory is also like a
Hollywood like off the Deep End, Okay. I think it
has to do with some of the Virginia facts. I
want to know what his career was for most of
his life because I want to know if he was
like a spook. Oh okay, and he's been retired. Yeah,
But just like in the movies, like some file gets open,
was tied to something back in the day.
Speaker 3: His house was all ransacked, part of like a ran
contra or something.
Speaker 2: Something, yeah, something, and they came and scooped him up
and made sure there's something like all the evidence is
gone okay, like dropped his phone maybe on purpose, and
whoever found it didn't figure the signs out. He's in Virginia,
that's by the Pentagon. Yeah, I read it's just the
same state as the Pentagon.
Speaker 3: The largest employer in Virginia's the federal government, So that
would be the state where if you're an ex like
military special forces or like, that's kind of what I'm wondering.
Speaker 2: It's kind of a clean disappearance, but like the house
thing seems to stand out for me.
Speaker 3: So he like he's involved with something and they ransacked
his house and then made it look like he disappeared hiking.
Speaker 2: Or they just didn't just disappeared a sixty year old
guy because they're like, no, no one's gonna find anything.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's blatant.
Speaker 2: And here's the thing why I think the ransacked hose
and while I'm calling in ransacked houses. If he's an
exerciser's healthy, he has like routines. Rarely do those people
have a messy environment. If you have the mental fortitude
to keep workout routines and be in shape, you're not
the type of person that lives in Squalor.
Speaker 3: You're gonna have a neat.
Speaker 2: And tidy space because that's the type of life you lead.
So it seems like somebody went through his stuff. Yeah,
and I find that odd.
Speaker 3: All right, I don't know if I'm all the way
there with you, But how many Fitzgerald's work at the Pentagon?
Speaker 2: Let's see if it answers me. My phone starts on fire.
You're on a list now, Sorry, couldn't.
Speaker 3: Find anybody in the Pentagon. I have to do a foya.
You think they'll give it to us? That would be
probably the funniest foya. Could you supply us with every fish?
Speaker 2: Hold on, I promise I'm not getting political, but I
feel like you ever hear about companies and history that
have like massive failures, and it's usually it's some like
really random failure point that no one ever thought, Like,
we submit a foyer for all the FitzGeralds, and like
somehow automatically gets processed and they give us like a
list of employees from the Pentagon, like like top secret
stuff that we should not have just get sent to
us via foyer request. Yeah, well, maybe you should try
it soon, because then I'm gonna go disappearing in the
Shenandoah National to find your car up in the Nicolay
National Forest.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, so you're going to Hollywood route.
Speaker 2: Other than that, I don't None of the other ones
really felt we're good in like a good explanation, like
other than he's not there, yeah, and why is he
not there? But his stuff is? It's they picked him
up there. Yeah, that's kind of where I'm just using
the They. Yeah, they went to the house, got whatever
they needed from the house, and maybe he went up
to the mountains to hide or meet somebody who's doing
a drop, I don't know, and they ambushed him. Yeah,
he gone, yeah, Okay, Well that's honestly, that's my theory.
I mean, and I understand how wild it is.
Speaker 3: The Only thing I can think of is law enforcement
believes he went back there to find his phone, and
maybe he went and made it look like that. Yeah
they maybe he just went back to hike again and
got lost or got cold and got hypothermia, just wandered
away out of the search zone. You would think in
a national forest in Virginia, highly popular area that somebody
would find remains at some point if it's near the trail,
which they haven't yet. People online were speculating that he
never was even there. It's a solid theory, but it's
not wild. I mean, it's we don't. I mean, he
looks very physically fit. I could definitely you know, maybe
he had some he was in some kind of like
some kind of intelligence role or something like that. I mean, yeah,
let's profile him if he looks like a company man,
a company man, so I know all the vernaculars. See
some images of him. See maybe. I mean if you said, oh,
he used to be a CIA operative, I would just
look at him like maybe, yeah, I could see that. Yeah,
I see him in the Middle East in one of
our I don't know what a redheaded person fit in
in the Middle East.
Speaker 2: Not fitting in, but working definitely at one of our embassies. Okay,
he seems like not to an undercover word.
Speaker 3: No, no, no, he's not special Forces. I don't think. I
think he's a suit but still work for the company.
All right, Well that's Hollywood. I guess I will bring
us back to Earth and say that it's more. I
think the conditions were tough. Hypothermia is probably a likely cause. Yeah,
it wasn't extremely cold where it's gonna kill you in
like a couple hours. He's a physically fit guy. He
could have gotten hypothermia and wandered around for a day
and got credibly deep into the woods or out of
this and maybe he wandered off trail. Then animals scavenged
the remains over the years, which is why nothing's really
been found.
Speaker 2: I'm like upset because you're convincing me theory. I want
it to be my theory, but I want to believe.
I want to believe.
Speaker 3: I do. I want to believe.
Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, I think you're
probably more right, like they said, kind of like those
drainage ditches or offshoots, and if you are hypothermic, even
if you're not doing the paradoxic little stuff. Yeah, but
like you're starting to be a little confused. Yeah, like yeah,
maybe just make a wrong turn.
Speaker 3: You think like this is down like head and back
and yeah, actually a drainage and you're just conditioned progressively
gets worse. Yeah, Yeah, I think you're right. Remember the
TV show Homeland, I do. I was thinking of the
TV because you know it's Virginia. Yeah, Pentagon, Pentagon all
the things see Langley, Virginia. That's see. He seems like
the type of guy that could be like all mixed
up in that stuff. If it isn't hypothermy I think
it's that. So thank you, Yeah, thank you, you're a
good friend. Oh, thank you, Joe indulging in my craziness. Yes,
so very interesting case. Let us know what you think. Yeah,
this one, I'm intered. I think people will be divided.
I want to know what everyone thinks. But we could
do a foyer request to see if he worked at
the Pentagon. Yeah, I just see if see. I kind
of want to do a foyer across to the Pentagon.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're gonna get a visit paid to us. Like,
why do you care so much? We want to find
Robert Fitzgerald.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Actually, if that he was a company man, they'd be like,
why do you want to find roberts I'll think, Okay,
we don't know, we don't, We definitely don't. Sorry, Yeah,
see us off the list. Yeah, please, for the love
of God, pretendly this didn't happen. We're just podcasters. It's
not that big of a deal. Yeah, anyway, thanks again
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Speaker 3: Thanks and we will see you all next time.