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Speaker 1: Thousands of people have mysteriously vanished in America's wilderness. Join

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us as we dive into the deep end of the

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unexplainable world and try to piece together what happened. If

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you are listening to Locations Unknown.

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Speaker 2: O, what's up everybody, and welcome back to another episode

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of Locations Unknown. I'm your co host Joe Eroden with

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me as always is a guy with the heart the

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size of a basketball that's filled with ricotta cheese.

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Speaker 3: Mike Vanderbogard. Oh, thank you, Joe. That's Bill brask Yes, yes,

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legendary Bill Brass. Legendary Bill brad No. Thank you, Joe,

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and thank you once again to all of our amazing

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listeners for tuning in this week. Just a few updates

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before we get go in. First, we've got a lot

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of Patreon shoutouts to get to, so Ashley Rainer, Caris,

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Kara Knutson, Rihanna Thomason, Greg, Jillian Lazar Lazaroni, sorry about that,

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Grant Ritter, Jill Slazzarini, Lasarini, there you go, Tina Gatewood,

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Katie Joe Williams, Renee Vorak, Richard Strak, Hoyt McCain and

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Susan Sodo, So thank you so much for supporting the show.

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We were excited, Joe and I. We're getting some new

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audio equipment in here, hopefully by next episode. Yeah, pulled

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it up.

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Speaker 2: You have it right there, right right here. We're just

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looking at it new. We got to set it up

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and program it.

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Speaker 3: New mixer for the table, We've got to throw it

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over here, over here. Yeah, we've got some brand new

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microphones coming in. So all the fun toys, all the

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fun toys, and we wouldn't be able to do it

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without the amazing support of all of our Patreon supporters

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and everyone else that listens to the show. You want

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to call the show and leave a voicemail, you can

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call twoh eight three nine one six nine one three.

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We've got some other interesting podcasts on our network, so

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Off the Trails, Who runs this park? Crime, Off the Grid.

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We've got a couple new ones coming on board every soon.

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Speaker 2: We got one that's real close and one that we

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just are going to sign in the next couple days.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, new new shows coming on. And if you

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want to support our show, we've got obviously our Patreon account,

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YouTube membership's premium subscriptions on Apple and Spreaker. We've got

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a store that sells some stuff you can buy that.

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Joe's wearing one of our hats tonight, so I had like,

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my hair is really bad.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, had the hat set and there was like

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I need to wear this our communal hat.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Outside of that, not a whole echoing on right show.

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There's like almost nothing going out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's new about the show that has anything relevance Joe. Yeah,

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obviously Joel briefly into it, and we're gonna we'll do

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We're gonna do a Patreon episode next on it, and

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then we're gonna be done talking about it. Yes, So

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if you're not on socials, we posted a video two

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weeks ago, Yeah, like a couple of days before Crime

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Junkies released their latest episode, which I'll be nice. You

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should go listen to it. And then if you were

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wondering why we released a four part series on Gwynn Hasselquiz,

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we released that when they released that episode two. Because

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we were the ones who broke that case and they

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actually picked that case up and did a whole story

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on it. We were a little upset that they didn't,

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you know, source us as the source. And for some

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of you who are confused, we're not saying they can't

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do the episode, but we were just saying that we

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originated this story. It's not like we found it and

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we reposted like podcasts do. There's only three podcasts that

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did this us because we broke it. The I Luminol

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podcast who called us and asked us for permission. We

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said absolutely, and they credit us. And then Crime Junkies.

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Speaker 3: Took all of our research. They did a great job.

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Speaker 2: They summarized the episode in two about an hour, but

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they just didn't source us, which it's fine, but lots

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more detail in the four episodes that we did, so

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if you didn't listen to it, and we're wondering why,

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that's why we released that, just to give you a

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more in depth viewing to the story. And as we'll

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explain more in Patron, there's some sources that Crime Junkies

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doesn't have because we didn't publish them, and we have

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some more information that we're putting together. So you want

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to learn more about that, you're gonna have to be

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a Patron subscriber. Promise it's not a money grab, but

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we don't have a lot of information. We can give

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on the live airge just yet.

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Speaker 3: Yes, So that's that's a little description of what's going on. Yeah,

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we're gonna talk about it one more time on the

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Patreon episode because we haven't really talked about it, and

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then we're gonna be done because there's nothing else we

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can do about it.

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Speaker 2: And I do want to end on saying I am

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glad it's getting traction. Yeah, So outside of all the

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stuff we talked about, we've always wanted that story to

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get big, and by having the biggest true crime podcast

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do that story, it's going to get big. So we're

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very happy that that's happening. So are Gwen's friends and

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family exactly.

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Speaker 3: All right?

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Speaker 2: All right, everybody, let's gear up and get out to

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explore locations unknown. November twelfth, twenty twelve, an avid runner

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and hiker fails to report into work after going hiking

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at the Confederate Breastworks Trail in George Washington National Forest.

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After only a few personal items were found, we were

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left with more questions than answers. Join us this week

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as we investigate the disappearance of Bert Fitzgerald.

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Speaker 3: All Right, someday we should just like when we hit

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it big, one of the episodes we'll have like the

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theme music done live. Because I was I was scrolling through.

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Speaker 2: Most people don't see what we're doing now. The sound

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is always faking a violin.

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Speaker 3: We are always doing really dumb. But no, I was

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just scrolling mindlessly through Instagram the other day and I

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came across the video of this band remember the music

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back in the day if you were on hold, like oh, like, yes,

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well they do that song live.

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Speaker 2: I I think I've seen this. I think you've shared

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it with Were there like a live show and they're

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playing it verbatim?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Yes, they were so good. They were at a

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music festival where they played it for eight hours straight

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and it's just hilarious. So we got it. Someday do

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that and you know when we hit the.

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Speaker 2: Big time, Yeah, well we'll get we'll get a we'll

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get a like the Milwaukee Symphony Orchestra.

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Speaker 3: To our breakdown music.

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Speaker 2: If we get big enough and have that kind of money,

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I think you know me, I'm gonna egg you on

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to do it. Yeah, and I'll just annoy you until

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you cave. It's gonna cost us like fifty grand.

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Speaker 3: I don't know what it would cost.

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Speaker 2: I need two minutes recorded at your practice of this

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song rent out the symphony. So anyway we are gonna

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hear about the story of Robert Fitzgerald.

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Speaker 3: We've never done a case in Virginia, really, I don't

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think so.

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Speaker 2: Okay, well, maybe we'll find out. I don't think somebody

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will let us know we haven't.

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Speaker 3: They just listened to recently. We do. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Where we're going today is the George Washington National Forest

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or the sub location the Confederate Breastworks trailhead on the

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Shenandoah Mountain, Shenandoah Shenandoah Mountain, Shenandoah Mountain, Virginia, as you said,

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it was established on five sixteen in nineteen eighteen as

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the Shenandoah National Forest and renamed to George Washington National

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Forest in nineteen thirty two. It sees roughly three million

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visitors per year. Some interesting facts about Virginia. Virginia received

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its name from England's virgin Queen Elizabeth the first. More

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than half of all American Civil War battles were fought

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in Virginia. The Pentagon, which sits on Virginia soil, is

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the largest office building in the world. I didn't know

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that's the largest office building in the world. Is it

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because it goes.

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Speaker 3: Down so deep? I think it's just that big. That's wild.

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Speaker 2: I would never guess that. Yeah, I feel like I

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don't believe that.

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Speaker 3: I've seen it in person from a highway. It's big.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but I'm just thinking like tall skyscrapers. Yeah, Like

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I wonder if it's because it's like one hundred floors deep,

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secret military base.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the biggest one, you know, with the floors

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they know about. It's just it's really big. Yeah. Okay, right,

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I'm gonna believe you. Yep, to see what happens.

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Speaker 2: Virginia is home to the second oldest college in the

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United States, the William and Mary found It was founded

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in nineteen or sixteen ninety three.

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Speaker 3: Holy Cow at a Slowdown.

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Speaker 2: Virginia is sometimes called the birthplace of the nation because

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the American Revolution was ended with a surrender in Yorktown, Virginia. Williamsburg,

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Virginia houses the first theater built in America. It was

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completed in seventeen sixteen. When Virginia seceded from the Union,

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the state's residents found themselves divided between Union and Confederate supporters.

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In protest, fifty Virginian counties split off from the state

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to form their own state of the West Virginia. Kentucky

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co from the land that once belonged to Virginia. In fact,

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Kentucky used to be Kentucky County Virginia until seventeen ninety two. Berkeley,

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Virginia claims to have had the first Thanksgiving two years

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before the Plymouth Thanksgiving in sixteen twenty one. They just

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didn't have good marketing. That's the problem.

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Speaker 3: People forget history here. America does go back pretty far. Yeah,

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that's wild. Sixteen twenty one was quite a way while ago.

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Speaker 2: Virginia handles roughly seventy percent of the world's Internet traffic

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through massive data centers under the Pentagon On A little

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bit about the climate in George Washington National Forest along

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the Shenandoah Mountain experiences a humid continental mountain climate where

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elevation sharply influences temperature and weather patterns. Winters are cold

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and often harsh, with snow, sleet, and freezing rain common

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from November through March. Nighttime lows frequently dip into the

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twenties or lower, that is, in fahrenheit. The Strong Ridge

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winds make it feel even colder. Summers are pretty mild

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compared to the surrounding valleys. Days are usually warm seventies

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and eighties fahrenheit, but temperature drops quickly after sunset, and

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mountain thunderstorms can develop with little warning. Autumn brings crisp,

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dry air and bright foliage, but also shorter days and

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the first freezes of the season. By early November, overnight

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temperatures often hover near freezing at the Confederate Breastworks Overlook,

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that is at three thy four hundred feet in elevation.

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The region receives about forty five inches of precipitation annually,

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spread fairly evenly throughout the year, a mix of rain

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in the warmer months and snow and ice in the

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winter months. Because Shenandoah Mountain forms a high ridge line,

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dense fog and cloud banks often settle over the area,

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reducing visibility to only a few feet and making navigation

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difficult even for experienced hikers. During November of twenty twelve,

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when Robert Fitzgerald went missing, local reports described cold, overcast,

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drizzling weather with nighttime lows in the teens, conditions that

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would have created a serious risk of hypothermia or disorientation

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for anyone exposed overnight.

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Speaker 3: So a little bit about the terrain.

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Speaker 2: The disappearance area sits on the crest of Shenandoah Mountain

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along US two fifty at the Confederate Breastworks or Fort

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Edward Johnson Overlooked trailhead, a short interpretive loop on a

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narrow ridge with the Civil War earthworks and immediate access

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to longer back country trails from the overlook. The Shenandoah

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Mountain Trail runs. The ridge line generally gentle and walkable

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to the top, but it connects to side trails and

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old drainages, creating quick transitions from easy crest walking to

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demanding descents. Elevations on the ridge system range roughly between

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three thousand, three hundred feet or forty three hundred feet,

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with narrow wooded corridors and periodic views. Footing varies from

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dirt to rocky uneven tread, typical of a ridge and

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valley terrain just each Just east of the ridge lines,

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Ramsey's Draft Wilderness, a landscape explicitly described as rugged and steep,

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with old growth virgin like forest pockets along the draft,

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reinforcing how quickly benign river trail can give way to

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deep complex.

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Speaker 3: Hellows ridge trail, ridge trails, ridge travel, ridge travel. We'll

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get it right eventually. Vegetation on I had been just hiking,

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like in the middle of the night.

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Speaker 2: I'm still not that's true my sleep. That's what I

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did for Veterans Day. I joined my buddy and hiked

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from midnight to five am.

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Speaker 3: In a loop kinda in a city.

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Speaker 2: So it was like like hiking on a trail and city. Yes,

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so I'm still tired. So vegetation on and below the

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crest includes mixed hardwoods, which are oaks, maples, and hickories

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with rhododendrons and dense mountain laurel thickets. In places, brush

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that can choke visibility and force hand and knee travel

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off trail. You do not want to be doing that, No,

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especially if you can't see anywhere. The Jerry's Run connector

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and nearby sections of the Shenandoah Mountain Trail are noted

237
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as remote, with long stretches of mature forest and few bailouts.

238
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Even where the ridge is easy, the backcountry feel and

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00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:08,600
distance between access points increases consequences for minor navigation errors,

240
00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:15,120
so overall, narrow ridge, steep side hallows, thick understory, rocky footing.

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It's a classic search and rescue challenge in Nightmare with

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limited sightings to and sound dampening, and rapid train changes

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within small horizontal distances. So it's like just not a

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place you want to get lost in, and seems like

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you can also get stuck in some of the like

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perfect storm situations where visibility's gone, you're gonna have to

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crawl around. You could accidentally go off these shoots.

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Speaker 3: Yep. So just wild hiking. Yeah, tough place to hike.

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And I was reading some accounts from people that live there,

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that hunt in there and even experience people that have

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been hunting their whole lives get lost routinely. Yeah, that's

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that's kind of freaky. Yeah.

253
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Speaker 2: So types of dangers outside of that, we have black bear,

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white tailed deer.

255
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Speaker 3: White tail is probably not dangerous.

256
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Speaker 2: Let's to like upset and ca you bobcats, coyote, red fox,

257
00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:06,720
wild turkey, grouse, hawks, and timber rattlesnakes, as well as

258
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northern copperheads.

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Speaker 3: So hazards Robert or.

260
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Speaker 2: Anyone hiking in the area at that time might encounter.

261
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The biggest one would be cold wet and wind chill exposure,

262
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so hypothermia risk would be very big. As we said,

263
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the ridges here run about ten degrees cooler than the valleys.

264
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Winter can bring snow and ice and win greatly accelerates

265
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heat loss. So short daylight windows would add to this.

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In Stoughton, which is the closest city early to mid November,

267
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daylight is only ten hours and sunsets near five oh

268
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five to five ten pm, so increasing the after dark

269
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navigation exposure risk. So it's getting dark and hard to

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see and colder very early.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: The adjacent Ramsey's Draft wilderness is explicitly described as rugged

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and steep, dense understory and rough trail head so off

274
00:15:53,879 --> 00:15:56,960
trail or lesser pass can be choked by mountain laurel rhododendron.

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Speaker 3: We kind of went over that again.

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Speaker 2: Stream crossings can be hazardous, especially if it's cold, so

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if it's not frozen, you can get wet and then

278
00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:06,399
you have Yeah, it can be impassable at high waters

279
00:16:06,399 --> 00:16:09,279
in the nearby drainages. So that's the Ramsey's Draft or

280
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Jerry's Run. And as we said before, rapid weather shifts,

281
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so mountain conditions can change quickly. Ridges often see low

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00:16:17,279 --> 00:16:21,799
clouds or fog, making navigation visual signal difficult. And lastly,

283
00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:24,480
there's limited cell service, so there's sparse bailouts where you

284
00:16:24,519 --> 00:16:27,480
can get to areas that have remote coverage, So you

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00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:29,559
don't want to rely on a phone for help or

286
00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:33,519
navigation directly unless you've a downloaded map. Yeah, the active

287
00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:37,919
hunting seasons in November. Virginia's early muzzleloader or deer season

288
00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,639
runs in early mid November. That's where you're like loading

289
00:16:40,639 --> 00:16:44,720
one bullet at a time, old school method with blaze

290
00:16:44,799 --> 00:16:48,919
orange safety strongly recommended around hunters. And then the wildlife

291
00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:52,320
encounters black bear do remain active into late fall, but

292
00:16:52,879 --> 00:16:54,480
you're not going to they're going to be getting ready

293
00:16:54,519 --> 00:16:57,480
for hibernation if they haven't ready, and you're going to

294
00:16:57,519 --> 00:17:00,320
see timber rattle. Snakes are very are a lot lessive,

295
00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:03,759
but can e merge on warm days. So outside of that, Mike,

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you want to give us a little bit about mister Fitzgerald.

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Speaker 3: So the name of tonight's case is Robert Bobby Ray Fitzgerald.

298
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Date of birth was April twentieth. We're not really sure

299
00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:19,759
the year. It wasn't publicly available. His presumed date missing

300
00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:23,000
was November twelfth of twenty twelve. He was a male,

301
00:17:23,079 --> 00:17:27,759
age sixty. Body description. He was white Caucasian male, red hair,

302
00:17:27,839 --> 00:17:30,279
hazel eyes. He was five foot eleven, one hundred and

303
00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:34,799
sixty pounds. He had red hair, hazel eyes. Like I said,

304
00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:39,079
Claude Ungeary was last seen and unknown. There was some

305
00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:44,240
gear found in his car, so he had a flashlight, food,

306
00:17:44,279 --> 00:17:47,680
power bars, water and other hiking supplies, but we don't

307
00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:50,119
have a description of what he actually was wearing when

308
00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:54,559
he was hiking. Personality hobbies. He was described by why

309
00:17:54,799 --> 00:17:58,440
MCA staff is quiet, soft spoken, and kind. He was

310
00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:03,480
a daily visitor to the Staunton Augusta Family YMCA. There

311
00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:08,400
were no publicly available medical issues he occupation he worked.

312
00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:10,920
I think he worked for a sighting company. I have

313
00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:13,680
it listed here somewhere. But he also was an avid

314
00:18:13,759 --> 00:18:17,000
runner and hiker. He was very interested in fitness and nutrition,

315
00:18:17,839 --> 00:18:19,960
and like I said, he was a frequent and daily

316
00:18:20,039 --> 00:18:23,839
visitor to the local YMCA experience in the wilderness. He

317
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,759
was characterized by family and friends as a very experienced

318
00:18:26,799 --> 00:18:31,759
hiker and was very fit for his age and experiencing

319
00:18:31,759 --> 00:18:35,240
that location. He was familiar with the Shenando Mountain Confederate

320
00:18:35,279 --> 00:18:39,039
Breastworks area. He had hiked there the day before his

321
00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:44,440
disappearance and had reportedly lost his phone. So we'll jump

322
00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:47,440
right in the timeline here. At some point, Joe, do

323
00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:50,160
you want to pull up all trails of the trail

324
00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:52,440
he was on at some point? Maybe I will, Maybe

325
00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:55,319
I won't, Maybe I will. Maybe. Well, we'll see how

326
00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:55,559
it goes.

327
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Speaker 2: See if you start talking a little bit nicer to me,

328
00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:01,240
he I'll pull it up right to pull up a

329
00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:03,319
picture of him real quick, Okay, but yeah, I'll get

330
00:19:03,319 --> 00:19:03,599
it going.

331
00:19:03,799 --> 00:19:06,200
Speaker 3: Yeah. So for those just listening, Joe, is a picture

332
00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:10,480
of Robert on the screen. Yeah. So our timeline starts Sunday,

333
00:19:10,559 --> 00:19:15,440
November eleventh, of twenty twelve. Bobby was planning to hike

334
00:19:15,519 --> 00:19:19,400
about six to seven miles on the Confederate Breastworks Shenandoah

335
00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:23,079
Mountain area with a friend, and at some point during

336
00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:25,359
this hike he ended up losing his cell phone and

337
00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:29,960
reportedly a shirt, and it turned out later a different

338
00:19:30,039 --> 00:19:33,359
hiker from the Charlottesville area found his phone that same

339
00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:36,119
day and placed it in her pack and was later

340
00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:39,440
trying to reach out to the owner. Midweek, and according

341
00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:41,960
to some reports that I found his cell phone was

342
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:44,680
actually found very close to the parking lot, so not

343
00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:48,920
very far off trail. It's now Monday, November twelfth, of

344
00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:55,880
twenty twelve, and investigators believe Bobby returned to the trailhead.

345
00:19:56,519 --> 00:19:59,079
A sheriff, Randy Fisher, believes he likely set out on

346
00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:02,519
a four hour we're roughly out and back hike around

347
00:20:02,519 --> 00:20:06,119
one fifteen pm. And like Joe had mentioned in the

348
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:09,920
climate section of the case, whether at that time was cold,

349
00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:14,799
it was overcast, there was some drizzle. Nighttime tempts that

350
00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:18,240
week dipped into the teens, so not the kind of

351
00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:21,000
weather you'd want to be stuck out in the woods.

352
00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:27,440
And the sheriff right away started discussing hypothermia risks and

353
00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:32,720
actually talked about paradoxical undressing and burrowing, which we've discussed

354
00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:36,240
many times on the show. Joe, maybe he'll grace us

355
00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:39,319
with his story of Nope, not gonna of Colorado.

356
00:20:39,079 --> 00:20:43,680
Speaker 2: After someone complained about hearing it for like the fifteenth time. Sorry,

357
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:47,599
there's new listeners. I will never let that go. I

358
00:20:47,799 --> 00:20:49,880
when I read that, Cob and I was laughing, Yeah,

359
00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:52,079
I mean it's true. I do repeat thing. If you're

360
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:54,480
anyone who's friends with me knows I repeat stuff too much.

361
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Speaker 3: But yeah, it's just the early onset dementia CA. Yeah, honestly,

362
00:20:57,720 --> 00:20:59,880
I think it probably is a problem I should have,

363
00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:04,960
but no, I enjoy hearing the story and they had it.

364
00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:07,680
Nice of you to say. We had some listeners saying

365
00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:11,119
they never heard it. So we'll have Joe Tellet in

366
00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:13,240
detail in the Patreon episode. Yeah, if you want to

367
00:21:13,279 --> 00:21:17,480
hear it of episode it is now Thursday, November fifteenth

368
00:21:17,559 --> 00:21:21,440
of twenty twelve. So this is when Bobby failed to

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00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:24,680
report for work. He worked at the plyj He worked

370
00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:29,720
at ply Gem and the Stanton Police initiated a missing

371
00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:36,200
person's report and the Augusta County Sheriff's Office or ACSO

372
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:41,160
checked the parking lot at Confederate Breath, the Confederate Breastworks

373
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,240
parking lot, and that's where they found Bobby's vehicle. It

374
00:21:44,279 --> 00:21:47,079
was a two thousand and one Kia and like I said,

375
00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:50,799
inside his vehicle they found his trail pack. They found

376
00:21:50,839 --> 00:21:55,960
power bars, food, water bottles, flashlight, and a rain poncho

377
00:21:56,079 --> 00:22:00,319
and jacket. So you really get the impression that he

378
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:02,599
wasn't planning to be out there long. He was just

379
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:05,480
there to look for his lost phone, because why else

380
00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,039
would you leave all that stuff in your car. So

381
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:13,319
that evening the formal search really began, and like I said,

382
00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:16,000
some reports stated that his cell phone was found very

383
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:19,799
close to the trailhead, which again would explain why maybe

384
00:22:19,839 --> 00:22:22,720
he left all of his gear in the car, because

385
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,000
if you're planning on doing a pretty long hike in

386
00:22:25,039 --> 00:22:27,279
this kind of environment, you would you'd probably want to

387
00:22:27,319 --> 00:22:30,359
take your backpack with you. It's now evening, this would

388
00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:33,880
be day one of the search, so the search begins

389
00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:38,880
on Shenandoah Mountains, centered on the Confederate Breastworks trailhead. Early

390
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:42,240
reports from Search and Rescue noted that it was very rugged,

391
00:22:42,279 --> 00:22:45,480
steep train and like I said, the overnight lows were

392
00:22:45,519 --> 00:22:48,480
in the teens. At this time, authorities were asking the

393
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:52,039
public for help any hunters or hikers. They were actually

394
00:22:52,079 --> 00:22:56,200
telling people to avoid the areas so they wouldn't contaminate

395
00:22:56,599 --> 00:22:59,960
the sense for the canine units, so they had canine us.

396
00:23:00,079 --> 00:23:03,200
It's out in this search very early. It's now Friday,

397
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:08,519
November sixteenth. ACSO states that Bobby had likely been missing

398
00:23:08,559 --> 00:23:12,920
for days. Resources on scene included thirty five volunteers, eight

399
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:17,960
canine units and a Virginia State Police helicopter. Search managers

400
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:22,839
continued to expand hasty and grid searches radiating from the

401
00:23:22,839 --> 00:23:26,480
Trailhead parking area. So unfortunately this is a scenario where

402
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:28,720
they didn't get out there looking for him for a

403
00:23:28,759 --> 00:23:32,799
few days, which it's critical usually to get out in

404
00:23:32,839 --> 00:23:35,359
the field and look as soon as possible, especially in

405
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:36,119
these conditions.

406
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:39,880
Speaker 2: And that location was correct. Okay, it's this Confederate Breastworks

407
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:43,799
interpretive site is the start Yeah, as confirmed by the

408
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:49,200
friends of the Shenandoah Mountain page as well as the

409
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:52,960
Forest Service page. Okay, so yep, it just has.

410
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:54,680
Speaker 3: A bunch of different names and none of them are

411
00:23:54,759 --> 00:23:57,880
listed appropriately. Y So I have some interesting I found

412
00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:01,119
some interesting sources on in the app actual search methods

413
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:03,799
used in this case. So they used what they called

414
00:24:03,839 --> 00:24:08,799
a lost person behavior profiling to set probabilities and tasking.

415
00:24:09,519 --> 00:24:13,720
Air sent canines not just trailing were deployed. Teams carry

416
00:24:13,799 --> 00:24:18,759
GPS so managers could layer completed tracks over maps to

417
00:24:18,799 --> 00:24:23,079
reduce the haystack, and like I said, a public request

418
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:25,119
was made to avoid the area to protect the canine

419
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:28,319
cent work. Kind of interesting, that's cool, very technical and

420
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:33,319
detailed search was used. It's now Saturday, November seventeenth of

421
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:37,400
twenty twelve. Ground teams, tracking dogs and aircraft continue the

422
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:41,039
search effort in the mountains. Media notes this is the

423
00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:43,559
third day of the act of searching a sense of

424
00:24:43,759 --> 00:24:49,920
the initiation, and this is when the Charlottesville hiker's phone

425
00:24:50,799 --> 00:24:54,119
find is made known to the investigators. So they just

426
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:57,880
found out that a separate hiker had found his phone. Sunday,

427
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:02,240
November eighteenth of twenty twelve, cadaver dogs were alerted multiple

428
00:25:02,279 --> 00:25:06,079
times in steep Laurel Thicket between Shenandoah Mountain Trail and

429
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:12,000
Ramsey's Draft Trail. Teams recanvassed that zone on November nineteenth

430
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,720
and again later in the week. The search footprint now

431
00:25:15,759 --> 00:25:19,640
totaled over forty five hundred acres and fifty miles of trail,

432
00:25:20,559 --> 00:25:24,319
and there were over two hundred personnel involved across the operation,

433
00:25:25,039 --> 00:25:30,799
including canines, mounted and helicopter searchers. This is a pretty

434
00:25:30,799 --> 00:25:34,000
big search, forty five hundred acres fifty miles the trail.

435
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:38,799
They had people on horses that had eight canine units, helicopters. Yeah,

436
00:25:38,839 --> 00:25:40,480
it's a lot of people. That's a lot of such

437
00:25:40,519 --> 00:25:43,079
a small area that you could be in. Yeah, well

438
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:47,480
the thing is too it's super thick and the canopy

439
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,119
is really thick and would be hard to see from

440
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,200
the air. Though in November maybe the leaves are starting

441
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,079
to come down, so that might help a little. It's

442
00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:59,000
now Monday, November nineteenth of twenty twelve. After five days

443
00:25:59,079 --> 00:26:04,599
of organized sch so Thursday through Monday, officials officially suspended

444
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:08,839
the search Monday night as they had no confirmed findings.

445
00:26:09,799 --> 00:26:15,240
The Virginia Department of Emergency Management confirmed the decision, and

446
00:26:15,279 --> 00:26:18,799
then news media had picked this up. Overall footprint across

447
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:20,960
the five days of searching, like I said, it was

448
00:26:21,039 --> 00:26:24,200
forty five hundred acres fifty miles of trail, two hundred

449
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:28,039
plus personnel. They had canine units, mounted units, they had

450
00:26:28,039 --> 00:26:32,000
a Virginia State Police helicopter, and their primary focus was

451
00:26:32,039 --> 00:26:35,799
on Confederate Breastworks, Shenado Mountain Trail and Jerry's Run trail.

452
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,480
Maybe see if all trails has either of those trails

453
00:26:38,559 --> 00:26:42,000
up and like I said, the train by the searchers

454
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,599
described the train as very steep, rugged mountain laurel up

455
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:49,799
to six feet offen forcing hand and knee searching and

456
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,960
limited grid searches, so they really weren't able to fully

457
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,880
do a proper search just because of the ruggedness of

458
00:26:57,680 --> 00:26:59,359
this area. Oh and what do you have up here?

459
00:26:59,400 --> 00:26:59,599
Speaker 1: It is?

460
00:27:00,839 --> 00:27:02,880
Speaker 3: Okay, so this is I.

461
00:27:02,839 --> 00:27:06,279
Speaker 2: Think where the shenandoh no, that's different, but it's on

462
00:27:06,319 --> 00:27:10,640
two fifty. There's two fifty, yeah, okay, far three ninety six.

463
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 3: What was the other one called? It was Shenandoah Mountain

464
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:17,519
Trail and Jerry's Run trail and confrederit Confederate Breastworks Trail,

465
00:27:17,519 --> 00:27:18,880
which is the.

466
00:27:18,839 --> 00:27:23,160
Speaker 2: Shortest here is Confederate Breastworks Trail right here? Okay, like

467
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:25,960
it doesn't it shows the trail on here, but no

468
00:27:26,039 --> 00:27:27,200
one's ever recorded it.

469
00:27:28,039 --> 00:27:31,400
Speaker 3: Hmm, all right, that's fine. Yeah. So he went missing

470
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,640
somewhere in this area, in this area, yeah, okay, we believe,

471
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,559
we don't know. Maybe he did. Maybe he did.

472
00:27:37,599 --> 00:27:39,759
Speaker 2: And so they found all this stuff, well his car,

473
00:27:40,079 --> 00:27:43,240
the car was there, and like I said, it was

474
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:45,720
very tough to search.

475
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:49,839
Speaker 3: In this area and very interesting though. The cadaver dogs

476
00:27:49,839 --> 00:27:53,960
were alerted multiple times on that Sunday and they recanvassed it,

477
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,759
but nothing was found. So now late November to December

478
00:27:57,799 --> 00:28:02,119
of twenty twelve within days of the search suspension, and

479
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,559
experienced K nine team actually returned to the area and

480
00:28:05,599 --> 00:28:09,880
did another ten hours of searching on the day after Thanksgiving,

481
00:28:10,799 --> 00:28:17,079
and then seventeen volunteers searched another six hours and another

482
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,960
ACSO K nine pass occurred in December, so they stayed

483
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:25,039
out there after the official search was ended and continued

484
00:28:25,079 --> 00:28:28,240
looking and even after Thanksgiving they're out there doing that,

485
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:32,480
So hats off to those people. We had more news

486
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:37,440
reports January twenty thirteen, local media was reporting on community

487
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:41,440
group that was planning additional searches. It's now. In July

488
00:28:41,559 --> 00:28:45,079
twenty ninth of twenty thirteen, the ACSO released a missing

489
00:28:45,119 --> 00:28:50,160
person's update. They just summarized the investigation and lost phone.

490
00:28:50,279 --> 00:28:53,839
They believed he returned to the hike on eleven twelve.

491
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:58,119
His car was found on eleven fifteen. Multiple searches on

492
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:02,240
several occasions with absolutely nothing found, no gear, absolutely nothing.

493
00:29:02,319 --> 00:29:04,680
Only thing was they had some cadaver dogs alert a

494
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:08,960
few times. On that Sunday, March fifteenth of twenty fourteen,

495
00:29:10,119 --> 00:29:12,720
there was a blog that kind of must have been

496
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,839
from a local person that recapped the loss of his

497
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:19,359
phone and his presumed return to the trail and they

498
00:29:19,359 --> 00:29:23,359
actually provided some local photos for context of the search,

499
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:27,680
which was kind of interesting. And July third of twenty fourteen,

500
00:29:27,759 --> 00:29:30,720
we had more media follow up on the case. They

501
00:29:30,759 --> 00:29:33,160
reported that Bobby was off part of that week and

502
00:29:33,279 --> 00:29:36,240
wasn't reported missing until November fifteenth, which we covered in

503
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:41,359
the timeline. And between November twenty sixteen and November twenty seventeen,

504
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:45,000
this was the four and five year anniversary of his disappearance.

505
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:50,039
There was actually a fifty thousand dollars reward mentioned, and

506
00:29:50,839 --> 00:29:54,119
authorities restated their belief that he had returned to find

507
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:58,920
his phone. So, now this is a very interesting bit

508
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:02,400
of information and I don't understand why it took until

509
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:07,039
twenty seventeen to come out, but a local media outlet

510
00:30:07,079 --> 00:30:12,039
reported that at the time of his disappearance, his residence

511
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:15,480
was found in total disarray, with old food still inside

512
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:19,680
his stove and his car in a mess, with one

513
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:28,039
quoted source raising concerns about possible depression and maybe a suicide.

514
00:30:28,319 --> 00:30:30,359
So did it make it seem like that's not how

515
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:34,079
he normally lived. Yeah, it was mentioned as odd that

516
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:35,920
his house would have been found in that way, and

517
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:39,720
it was okay, it was then people online found it

518
00:30:40,039 --> 00:30:44,119
very interesting why this was only reported in twenty seventeen.

519
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:48,079
Why this wasn't part of the original reporting on the case. Yeah,

520
00:30:48,119 --> 00:30:51,559
it seems relevant. Yeah, April twenty twenty one, this was

521
00:30:52,599 --> 00:30:57,119
the local YMCA named April twenty twentieth Bobby Fitzgerald Day

522
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:02,000
a sharing background on his routine and the case, and

523
00:31:02,039 --> 00:31:05,119
again a lot of local media echoed the core of

524
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:10,200
facts of the case. Interestingly, May twenty twenty four, a

525
00:31:10,319 --> 00:31:14,319
body was founded near the Confederate Breastworks in Highland County,

526
00:31:14,559 --> 00:31:18,599
but it was after analysis was not Bobby Fitzgerald. His

527
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:19,839
case still remained open.

528
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 2: Those always freaked me out, Like how many episodes have

529
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:25,119
we done were like, we found a body, but it's

530
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:26,400
not the guy we were looking for.

531
00:31:26,519 --> 00:31:28,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, we just found a body out there. Oh like

532
00:31:29,279 --> 00:31:31,920
that just and sometimes they don't even know, like there

533
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:35,240
was no missing person case. Yeah, they just found a body. Yeah,

534
00:31:35,359 --> 00:31:39,440
that's that's so wild. It's sad too that someone could

535
00:31:39,519 --> 00:31:42,920
go missing and pass away out in the wilderness and

536
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,440
they're like the last of their lineage. Well no, like

537
00:31:46,519 --> 00:31:48,400
no one reported a missing That's what I'm saying. Yeah,

538
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,559
the last one of their life. No, maybe their parents

539
00:31:51,559 --> 00:31:54,359
were gone, no friends, no wife, no kids. Think about

540
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:54,880
it this way.

541
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:58,480
Speaker 2: How many people do you know that you haven't had

542
00:31:58,519 --> 00:32:01,920
contact with since college? You don't know how they're doing?

543
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:02,720
Speaker 3: Quite a few.

544
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, if you imagine, like someone could go missing

545
00:32:06,519 --> 00:32:10,680
and be gone deceased, and but think of there could

546
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:13,480
be so many people that knew that person, yeah, but

547
00:32:13,519 --> 00:32:15,680
aren't close enough to like check in on them.

548
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 3: But like even a job, like you don't show up for,

549
00:32:18,839 --> 00:32:21,960
how many jobs are going to have? We have employee

550
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,720
when missing, We have employees ghosts all the time, and

551
00:32:24,759 --> 00:32:27,039
you don't file missing especially not. Yeah, it's just like

552
00:32:27,079 --> 00:32:28,319
all right, I guess they didn't want to come to

553
00:32:28,359 --> 00:32:31,160
work anymore. Yeah, but yeah, I just I always find

554
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:34,559
that sad and kind of scary. Like you said, they'll

555
00:32:34,599 --> 00:32:37,160
be searching for someone and just find a body. Yeah,

556
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,799
that's oh messed up. Yeah. And now even stranger with

557
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:44,680
this case was May twenty twenty five, there was a

558
00:32:45,039 --> 00:32:49,200
different man named Scott Fitzgerald who went missing in the

559
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:53,640
Shenandoah Mountain area and then was found. Right, so they

560
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,240
got one of the Fitzgerald's and the guy that they

561
00:32:56,279 --> 00:32:58,359
found was I believe thirty three years old.

562
00:32:58,599 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 2: I was when I was looking through it switch screens

563
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:01,680
because I was scrolling.

564
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 3: I have it showing now.

565
00:33:03,279 --> 00:33:04,839
Speaker 2: All of a sudden, I'm scrolling through and it's like

566
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:08,200
Fitzgerald found. And I was like, Mike, I hope this

567
00:33:08,359 --> 00:33:09,119
ends with found.

568
00:33:09,319 --> 00:33:09,519
Speaker 3: Yeah?

569
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:13,039
Speaker 2: No, so no, ye, mister Fitzgerald has been located and

570
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:13,720
is safe.

571
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 3: And I'm like what I open it up. I'm like,

572
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:17,119
this is a different guy.

573
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:21,119
Speaker 2: What are the odds? Yeah, yeah, there he is. This

574
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:24,079
is not the guy we're doing the episode on. No

575
00:33:24,599 --> 00:33:29,279
Scott Wayne Fitzgerald. He's thirty three May sixteenth, twenty twenty five?

576
00:33:29,839 --> 00:33:30,640
Was it he was last seen?

577
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 3: He's okay, looks like he was probably a hunter and

578
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,359
got lost. Is there a lot of Fitzgerald's in Virginia?

579
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:38,359
I don't know. But what are the chances two of

580
00:33:38,359 --> 00:33:40,759
them go missing in the same area. I don't know. Well,

581
00:33:40,799 --> 00:33:45,279
pretty good apparently, I guess so. Oother note I had

582
00:33:45,319 --> 00:33:49,519
on this case was no itinerary. His pack was left

583
00:33:49,559 --> 00:33:54,839
in the car date uncertainty. So we don't we know

584
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:58,359
his car. His pack's left in the car, Yep, no itinerary.

585
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,400
His phone was found near the car, he said, right

586
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:03,880
by a separate hiker by a separate hiker, or is

587
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,119
his shirt found? Does it mention that? No mention of

588
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:09,079
the shirt? Okay, all right, So it's just it's kind

589
00:34:09,079 --> 00:34:13,840
of just strange. And his car is there, but and

590
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:17,000
his phone was found near the parking lot, but there's

591
00:34:17,039 --> 00:34:20,159
no evidence he went further than the parking lot. Really,

592
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:22,599
so we don't know. We don't know what happened to him.

593
00:34:22,599 --> 00:34:27,360
They never found him. So what are the main theories?

594
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:30,320
And this case is still open to this day unsolved.

595
00:34:30,599 --> 00:34:32,960
Not a single thing of his was found outside of

596
00:34:33,519 --> 00:34:35,639
the phone in the car. To want to know, how

597
00:34:35,639 --> 00:34:38,639
many people are named Fitzgerald in Virginia, let's hear it.

598
00:34:39,519 --> 00:34:43,440
Speaker 2: According to my namestats dot com, there's about two hundred

599
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:47,400
and eighteen Fitzgerald's, Yeah, which puts the estimate at sixty

600
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,400
two point sixty six people named Fitzgerald per one hundred

601
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:51,480
thousand Virginians.

602
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 3: So he is more than normal. I doubt it. I

603
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:55,840
don't know.

604
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:56,559
Speaker 1: Is that.

605
00:34:58,079 --> 00:35:00,599
Speaker 3: Is that a lot? A lot?

606
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:05,639
Speaker 2: Short answer, it's a solid amount, but not wild, as

607
00:35:05,679 --> 00:35:06,760
a chat ChiPT.

608
00:35:06,559 --> 00:35:13,199
Speaker 3: Told me, all right, so likely theories, it's I'm gonna

609
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:15,960
use that. It's a solid amount, but it's not wild.

610
00:35:16,119 --> 00:35:19,280
You have kind of like a sassy like ai oh,

611
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,960
I have a whole personality. My chat gips a whole personality,

612
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:27,360
all right. So I'll go through theories that law enforcement

613
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:30,119
floated at the time, and then we'll get into our

614
00:35:30,159 --> 00:35:33,079
theories and then wrap it up. The most likely theory

615
00:35:33,119 --> 00:35:36,920
that law enforcement was talking about, and they even started

616
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:40,679
talking about this early on in the search, was hypothermia

617
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:44,639
after getting lost. The main reasons why this theory fits

618
00:35:44,679 --> 00:35:48,000
with this case is he is, like we said, believed

619
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:51,320
to have returned alone on the twelfth to look for

620
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:55,559
his lost phone. His car was found at the parking lot.

621
00:35:56,079 --> 00:35:59,119
He was solo. He was solo traveling in the cold, wet,

622
00:35:59,199 --> 00:36:04,559
windy condition on a high ridge, very exposed. Media reports

623
00:36:04,599 --> 00:36:08,079
at the time noted it was cold, overcast, drizzling, It

624
00:36:08,159 --> 00:36:10,920
got very cold into the teens at night. These are

625
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:14,480
classic hypothermia conditions, and I.

626
00:36:14,639 --> 00:36:18,239
Speaker 2: Want to hear a story about hypothermia maybe later.

627
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 3: And multiple cadaver dogs were alerted and they did recanvas areas,

628
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,559
but no remains were found, and a lot of the

629
00:36:28,599 --> 00:36:32,239
searchers said this is consistent with how difficult and brushy

630
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:37,920
the terrain was and how someone who was hypothermic could

631
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:42,280
have gone missing. So why this theory might not fit

632
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:46,880
perfectly is they did do an extensive ground and air

633
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:50,519
search operation. They had eight canine units out there, forty

634
00:36:50,519 --> 00:36:54,320
five hundred acres fifty miles a trail, two hundred people.

635
00:36:55,119 --> 00:36:59,000
They didn't locate anything, no remains nothing of them, which

636
00:37:00,119 --> 00:37:03,199
slightly is against the he just collapsed near the trail

637
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:06,800
or something. Next theory that was floated was a traumatic accident.

638
00:37:07,159 --> 00:37:10,079
We talk about this all the time. Obviously, the reasons

639
00:37:10,079 --> 00:37:13,639
why this would potentially fit this case is the ridge

640
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:16,679
quickly gives way to steep, rugged terrain. When the Ramsey's

641
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:20,440
Draft wilderness was described as rugged and steep by the

642
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:24,360
search teams. Off trail slips could funnel a person into

643
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:28,880
drainages with dense mountain vegetation that would make it really

644
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:30,880
hard for search and rescue to find them from the

645
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:36,880
air or from up above on a trail and canines

646
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:41,079
were alerting in the area and they re canvassed the zone,

647
00:37:41,199 --> 00:37:47,079
which some search managers were assessing downhill movement from the

648
00:37:47,159 --> 00:37:50,280
ridge as applausible theories based on how the dogs were

649
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:53,320
alerting and the terrain in the direction they were alerting.

650
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:55,480
They were thinking like maybe he was attempting to go

651
00:37:55,519 --> 00:38:01,679
downhill or fell downhill. So why this theory doesn't work

652
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:05,320
kind of fits into the first theory is they had

653
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:08,880
repeated multi day coverage with helicopters, canines, all of that stuff,

654
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:13,400
and no definitive evidence clothing, gear remains were found. He

655
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:16,039
could have been just cloaked by the dense vegetation in

656
00:38:16,039 --> 00:38:18,119
the area, which is why they didn't find him. But

657
00:38:18,159 --> 00:38:19,599
why the dogs were alerting.

658
00:38:20,079 --> 00:38:23,119
Speaker 2: I gotta be honest, and I know they're professionals and

659
00:38:23,519 --> 00:38:27,559
saying it is it doesn't seem that crazy steep compared

660
00:38:27,559 --> 00:38:30,519
to other images, like when I'm going through images in

661
00:38:30,519 --> 00:38:34,960
this trail. Yeah, and I'm not saying I'm right, I'm

662
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:39,199
just saying it's not wild compared to some of the

663
00:38:39,199 --> 00:38:42,480
other areas I've seen with like steep cliffs and drop offs.

664
00:38:42,639 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, it's not like hiking in Colorado on it.

665
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:46,559
So that's kind of what I'm getting at.

666
00:38:46,639 --> 00:38:49,800
Speaker 2: It's like we've done stories where people have found a

667
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:52,679
lot more in way worse areas than this.

668
00:38:53,039 --> 00:38:56,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what's kind of I mean, what's the place

669
00:38:56,719 --> 00:39:00,360
in by Madison, Wisconsin. Devil's Levels lake. That's kind of

670
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:02,840
what it feels like. But I could see somebody in

671
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:07,320
a storm in the winter getting hypothermia and falling off

672
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:11,480
something and hurting themselves and it's pretty thick there. Yeah,

673
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:14,960
but it's so easy to But the Devil's Blake is

674
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:19,360
far less remote than this. Yeah, this is more remote,

675
00:39:19,519 --> 00:39:21,239
but I'm not seeing anything.

676
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:23,800
Speaker 2: I Like I said, if someone, I would love comments

677
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:25,639
from people who live in this area that have hiked it.

678
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:28,960
Give me a real and look up. Maybe the Shenandoah Trail.

679
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:31,679
Maybe some of the descriptions are the trails go over

680
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:32,400
ridge lines.

681
00:39:33,159 --> 00:39:36,079
Speaker 3: Yeah, it could just be this one. And I can

682
00:39:36,119 --> 00:39:39,400
tell you from and you know this when we've gone

683
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:43,320
hiking and you're actually there and you're looking over the

684
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:45,880
trails and stuff. It's steep, and then when you go

685
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:49,239
back and look at pictures, it doesn't do it justice.

686
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:51,000
You're kind of looking at it and you're like, oh,

687
00:39:51,039 --> 00:39:53,519
this it kind of doesn't even look like the place

688
00:39:53,559 --> 00:39:54,280
you hiked.

689
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:59,280
Speaker 2: No, that's not true. I'm right, yeah, right, Okay, No, No,

690
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:01,320
I know I know what saying. Where it could be

691
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:02,000
worse than it's looking.

692
00:40:02,119 --> 00:40:05,559
Speaker 3: I've looked at lots of old hiking pictures from glacier

693
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:08,360
and yeah, you're like, it's way more beautiful canyon lands,

694
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:13,000
and I remember it being far steeper than like the

695
00:40:13,039 --> 00:40:16,559
pictures do justice. Yeah so maybe right, No, I'll give

696
00:40:16,599 --> 00:40:18,559
it to you. In that one, it does look very

697
00:40:18,639 --> 00:40:21,880
The vegetation looks incredibly thick. It is thick. Yeah, there

698
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:24,960
is that. But see, this is where I agree with

699
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:26,880
the pictures were looking at. Now, don't look.

700
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:30,800
Speaker 2: I'm biased because I just don't go off trail. So

701
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:33,480
even if you can't see it's to me, it's actually

702
00:40:33,519 --> 00:40:35,960
so thick it keeps funneling you on the trail. You'd

703
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:39,119
have to like very specifically be fighting and bushwhacking off

704
00:40:39,199 --> 00:40:39,880
trail in these.

705
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:42,840
Speaker 3: Situations, unless you're you have hypothermia and aren't thinking that.

706
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:45,880
Speaker 2: Okay, But even then I feel like I'm not going

707
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:47,280
to tell the story. But it's not like they just

708
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:51,119
wandered off trail. They followed the trail just the wrong way.

709
00:40:51,079 --> 00:40:51,320
Speaker 3: Yeah.

710
00:40:51,599 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 2: So unless there's a drainage and he thought it was

711
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:57,079
a trail and just followed that, I could see.

712
00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:01,000
Speaker 3: That at night. Yeah it's night. I mean, yeah, a

713
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:03,400
lot of these pictures, I it looks like in northern

714
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:05,280
wiscons okay, like that, you know, if like you fell

715
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:08,199
off something like that, Yeah, that would hurt you. Yeah.

716
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:11,480
Or this trail in the middle here, like yeah, this guy,

717
00:41:11,559 --> 00:41:12,159
that guy right there.

718
00:41:12,199 --> 00:41:15,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, some of these look pretty okay. I'll give it

719
00:41:15,159 --> 00:41:16,800
to you that this is the Shenandola Trail.

720
00:41:17,199 --> 00:41:20,360
Speaker 3: And I can tell you from hiking up in northern Wisconsin,

721
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:25,199
like the Nicola National Forest, it doesn't have anything mountainous,

722
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:30,840
but it has hundreds of miles of criss crossing trails

723
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:34,039
and if you got confused and started wandering around, you

724
00:41:34,039 --> 00:41:37,280
would go deep, deep into the forest and yeah, probably

725
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:41,320
not no one would find you. So is that a threat? Yeah,

726
00:41:42,679 --> 00:41:44,880
I get what you're saying. Yeah, So I mean, all right,

727
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:48,960
I retort. Yeah, if George Washington National Forest is anything

728
00:41:49,039 --> 00:41:52,119
like the National Forest in Northern Wisconsin, even if it

729
00:41:52,159 --> 00:41:55,360
doesn't have a lot of terrain hazards, there's a lot

730
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:58,559
of ways you could just get completely lost out of

731
00:41:58,559 --> 00:42:02,719
the search zone and not be found. Yeah, and if

732
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:06,719
there's coyotes, bears, things are gonna disturb the remains at

733
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:07,159
some point.

734
00:42:08,199 --> 00:42:12,000
Speaker 2: And I actually think you said it best. It's pretty

735
00:42:12,079 --> 00:42:16,159
dang remote. Okay, Yeah, I don't know. I still have

736
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:18,480
it doesn't change my theory that I'm thinking.

737
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:22,719
Speaker 3: Okay, go on. Another theory was medical emergency. So why

738
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:25,760
this theory fits? So he was sixty, he was hiking

739
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:29,599
alone in cold, wet, windy conditions on uneven terrain. A

740
00:42:29,639 --> 00:42:34,840
sudden medical event our standard hypotheses for search and rescue

741
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:39,679
teams when there's no foul play indicated and no phone

742
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:42,599
which would have prevented a nine to one one call

743
00:42:43,519 --> 00:42:47,880
and a collapse off the main trailhead step off to

744
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:51,880
maybe relieve oneself, check a viewpoint, or pursue a lost

745
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:56,320
phone could put him out of you in the dense vegetation. Now,

746
00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:59,559
why this doesn't work is the same reason we've said

747
00:42:59,559 --> 00:43:01,760
this for all the theories is they did a really

748
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:05,480
intense search, and I think out of all of a

749
00:43:05,559 --> 00:43:08,559
medical emergency would be the least likely because say you're

750
00:43:08,559 --> 00:43:10,639
just hiking down the trail and you have a widow maker,

751
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:13,880
you would just collapse on trail, yeah, and they'd find you.

752
00:43:14,639 --> 00:43:17,960
Totally totally agree on that one, So who knows, might

753
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:21,280
not be a theory. So two more theories that are

754
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:25,599
less likely, So a hunting related incident. So why this

755
00:43:25,679 --> 00:43:28,480
could potentially work for this case is Like Joe mentioned,

756
00:43:28,559 --> 00:43:32,239
November is a core period for deer season in Virginia,

757
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:36,079
and local reporting at the time noted hunting activity was

758
00:43:36,159 --> 00:43:41,119
going on in the area and the sheriff and retrospective

759
00:43:41,159 --> 00:43:45,880
coverage flagged the context of an active muzzleloader season that month.

760
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:50,440
But the probability of this is very low, It's not zero.

761
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:55,360
But could something have happened where he was shot by

762
00:43:55,519 --> 00:44:01,840
a hunter? Possibly? There were no reports of gunfire complaints

763
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:06,960
in that area. There was no recovered evidence of someone

764
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:10,679
being shot, or of shotgun shells or anything like that.

765
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:13,840
Authorities mentioned this, but it really isn't a theory that

766
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:17,199
really has any weight to it. And I guess the

767
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:22,119
final two theories are voluntary disappearance, So this one we

768
00:44:22,159 --> 00:44:27,559
always mention. Investigators focused on accidental missing hiker framework. He

769
00:44:27,639 --> 00:44:30,320
lost his phone, he believed to have returned to find it,

770
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:33,599
failed to report to work. Public profiles highlight his steady

771
00:44:33,639 --> 00:44:36,519
routine and strong community ties, which all goes against a

772
00:44:36,599 --> 00:44:42,519
voluntary disappearance, and none of the official recaps suggest a

773
00:44:42,559 --> 00:44:47,840
planned departure, and absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

774
00:44:48,199 --> 00:44:51,199
It's a theory, but it really has no weight. That's

775
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:55,440
your boomgos to dynamite for the show, yeah Boa And

776
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:58,960
finally suicide. I guess you could call a theory only

777
00:44:59,039 --> 00:45:03,360
because of the one news media article report of his

778
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:07,920
house being in disarray, his car being a mess, no itinerary, nothing,

779
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:13,000
But most people didn't put a lot of weight in

780
00:45:13,079 --> 00:45:15,320
that just because he had strong ties in the community,

781
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:18,599
he was very fit and active and everyone that knew

782
00:45:18,679 --> 00:45:22,360
him he had no impression that he was going through something.

783
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:26,320
Obviously doesn't mean he wasn't, but based on all the evidence,

784
00:45:26,599 --> 00:45:30,760
suicide is a very low probability for this case. So

785
00:45:31,039 --> 00:45:34,559
with all that being said, what is your theory, Joe?

786
00:45:35,119 --> 00:45:38,079
Speaker 2: Well, I feel like my theory is also like a

787
00:45:38,119 --> 00:45:43,079
Hollywood like off the Deep End, Okay. I think it

788
00:45:43,119 --> 00:45:45,639
has to do with some of the Virginia facts. I

789
00:45:45,679 --> 00:45:47,719
want to know what his career was for most of

790
00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:50,079
his life because I want to know if he was

791
00:45:50,199 --> 00:45:55,920
like a spook. Oh okay, and he's been retired. Yeah,

792
00:45:56,199 --> 00:45:59,840
But just like in the movies, like some file gets open,

793
00:46:00,079 --> 00:46:01,559
was tied to something back in the day.

794
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:04,599
Speaker 3: His house was all ransacked, part of like a ran

795
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:05,920
contra or something.

796
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:09,239
Speaker 2: Something, yeah, something, and they came and scooped him up

797
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:11,800
and made sure there's something like all the evidence is

798
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:17,559
gone okay, like dropped his phone maybe on purpose, and

799
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:21,880
whoever found it didn't figure the signs out. He's in Virginia,

800
00:46:22,039 --> 00:46:24,920
that's by the Pentagon. Yeah, I read it's just the

801
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:26,199
same state as the Pentagon.

802
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:29,119
Speaker 3: The largest employer in Virginia's the federal government, So that

803
00:46:29,159 --> 00:46:32,800
would be the state where if you're an ex like

804
00:46:33,039 --> 00:46:36,639
military special forces or like, that's kind of what I'm wondering.

805
00:46:37,679 --> 00:46:40,519
Speaker 2: It's kind of a clean disappearance, but like the house

806
00:46:40,599 --> 00:46:42,119
thing seems to stand out for me.

807
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:46,239
Speaker 3: So he like he's involved with something and they ransacked

808
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:49,360
his house and then made it look like he disappeared hiking.

809
00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:52,000
Speaker 2: Or they just didn't just disappeared a sixty year old

810
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:55,519
guy because they're like, no, no one's gonna find anything.

811
00:46:55,639 --> 00:46:56,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's blatant.

812
00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:00,519
Speaker 2: And here's the thing why I think the ransacked hose

813
00:47:00,679 --> 00:47:03,519
and while I'm calling in ransacked houses. If he's an

814
00:47:03,559 --> 00:47:07,840
exerciser's healthy, he has like routines. Rarely do those people

815
00:47:07,880 --> 00:47:12,480
have a messy environment. If you have the mental fortitude

816
00:47:12,519 --> 00:47:15,719
to keep workout routines and be in shape, you're not

817
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:17,679
the type of person that lives in Squalor.

818
00:47:18,119 --> 00:47:19,159
Speaker 3: You're gonna have a neat.

819
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:21,960
Speaker 2: And tidy space because that's the type of life you lead.

820
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:26,400
So it seems like somebody went through his stuff. Yeah,

821
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:27,800
and I find that odd.

822
00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:29,840
Speaker 3: All right, I don't know if I'm all the way

823
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:32,880
there with you, But how many Fitzgerald's work at the Pentagon?

824
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:35,920
Speaker 2: Let's see if it answers me. My phone starts on fire.

825
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:39,679
You're on a list now, Sorry, couldn't.

826
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 3: Find anybody in the Pentagon. I have to do a foya.

827
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:45,440
You think they'll give it to us? That would be

828
00:47:45,519 --> 00:47:49,360
probably the funniest foya. Could you supply us with every fish?

829
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:52,119
Speaker 2: Hold on, I promise I'm not getting political, but I

830
00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:56,320
feel like you ever hear about companies and history that

831
00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:59,280
have like massive failures, and it's usually it's some like

832
00:47:59,679 --> 00:48:03,079
really random failure point that no one ever thought, Like,

833
00:48:03,159 --> 00:48:05,679
we submit a foyer for all the FitzGeralds, and like

834
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:08,840
somehow automatically gets processed and they give us like a

835
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:11,840
list of employees from the Pentagon, like like top secret

836
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:13,960
stuff that we should not have just get sent to

837
00:48:14,079 --> 00:48:17,159
us via foyer request. Yeah, well, maybe you should try

838
00:48:17,159 --> 00:48:19,400
it soon, because then I'm gonna go disappearing in the

839
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:22,280
Shenandoah National to find your car up in the Nicolay

840
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:23,079
National Forest.

841
00:48:23,199 --> 00:48:25,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, so you're going to Hollywood route.

842
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:29,320
Speaker 2: Other than that, I don't None of the other ones

843
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:33,159
really felt we're good in like a good explanation, like

844
00:48:33,199 --> 00:48:36,239
other than he's not there, yeah, and why is he

845
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:39,039
not there? But his stuff is? It's they picked him

846
00:48:39,079 --> 00:48:42,280
up there. Yeah, that's kind of where I'm just using

847
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:46,079
the They. Yeah, they went to the house, got whatever

848
00:48:46,079 --> 00:48:49,239
they needed from the house, and maybe he went up

849
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:51,559
to the mountains to hide or meet somebody who's doing

850
00:48:51,559 --> 00:48:54,559
a drop, I don't know, and they ambushed him. Yeah,

851
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:59,440
he gone, yeah, Okay, Well that's honestly, that's my theory.

852
00:49:00,079 --> 00:49:01,960
I mean, and I understand how wild it is.

853
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:05,960
Speaker 3: The Only thing I can think of is law enforcement

854
00:49:06,039 --> 00:49:09,559
believes he went back there to find his phone, and

855
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:12,079
maybe he went and made it look like that. Yeah

856
00:49:12,119 --> 00:49:16,320
they maybe he just went back to hike again and

857
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:21,719
got lost or got cold and got hypothermia, just wandered

858
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:25,719
away out of the search zone. You would think in

859
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:30,400
a national forest in Virginia, highly popular area that somebody

860
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:34,159
would find remains at some point if it's near the trail,

861
00:49:34,519 --> 00:49:38,119
which they haven't yet. People online were speculating that he

862
00:49:38,199 --> 00:49:41,079
never was even there. It's a solid theory, but it's

863
00:49:41,119 --> 00:49:44,760
not wild. I mean, it's we don't. I mean, he

864
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:49,519
looks very physically fit. I could definitely you know, maybe

865
00:49:49,559 --> 00:49:51,119
he had some he was in some kind of like

866
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:59,760
some kind of intelligence role or something like that. I mean, yeah,

867
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:03,079
let's profile him if he looks like a company man,

868
00:50:03,559 --> 00:50:07,079
a company man, so I know all the vernaculars. See

869
00:50:07,119 --> 00:50:11,039
some images of him. See maybe. I mean if you said, oh,

870
00:50:11,119 --> 00:50:13,760
he used to be a CIA operative, I would just

871
00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:17,280
look at him like maybe, yeah, I could see that. Yeah,

872
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:19,679
I see him in the Middle East in one of

873
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:22,480
our I don't know what a redheaded person fit in

874
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:23,400
in the Middle East.

875
00:50:23,239 --> 00:50:26,760
Speaker 2: Not fitting in, but working definitely at one of our embassies. Okay,

876
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:28,400
he seems like not to an undercover word.

877
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:30,519
Speaker 3: No, no, no, he's not special Forces. I don't think. I

878
00:50:30,559 --> 00:50:33,719
think he's a suit but still work for the company.

879
00:50:34,159 --> 00:50:36,599
All right, Well that's Hollywood. I guess I will bring

880
00:50:36,679 --> 00:50:39,800
us back to Earth and say that it's more. I

881
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:45,880
think the conditions were tough. Hypothermia is probably a likely cause. Yeah,

882
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:49,480
it wasn't extremely cold where it's gonna kill you in

883
00:50:49,559 --> 00:50:52,519
like a couple hours. He's a physically fit guy. He

884
00:50:52,559 --> 00:50:55,760
could have gotten hypothermia and wandered around for a day

885
00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:59,719
and got credibly deep into the woods or out of

886
00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:06,920
this and maybe he wandered off trail. Then animals scavenged

887
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:09,599
the remains over the years, which is why nothing's really

888
00:51:09,639 --> 00:51:10,039
been found.

889
00:51:10,199 --> 00:51:13,679
Speaker 2: I'm like upset because you're convincing me theory. I want

890
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:15,800
it to be my theory, but I want to believe.

891
00:51:16,079 --> 00:51:17,000
I want to believe.

892
00:51:17,519 --> 00:51:18,840
Speaker 3: I do. I want to believe.

893
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:20,800
Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, I think you're

894
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:23,760
probably more right, like they said, kind of like those

895
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:27,519
drainage ditches or offshoots, and if you are hypothermic, even

896
00:51:27,519 --> 00:51:29,920
if you're not doing the paradoxic little stuff. Yeah, but

897
00:51:30,079 --> 00:51:32,880
like you're starting to be a little confused. Yeah, like yeah,

898
00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:34,159
maybe just make a wrong turn.

899
00:51:34,239 --> 00:51:36,119
Speaker 3: You think like this is down like head and back

900
00:51:36,159 --> 00:51:39,719
and yeah, actually a drainage and you're just conditioned progressively

901
00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:42,480
gets worse. Yeah, Yeah, I think you're right. Remember the

902
00:51:42,559 --> 00:51:45,480
TV show Homeland, I do. I was thinking of the

903
00:51:45,519 --> 00:51:49,480
TV because you know it's Virginia. Yeah, Pentagon, Pentagon all

904
00:51:49,519 --> 00:51:52,760
the things see Langley, Virginia. That's see. He seems like

905
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:54,760
the type of guy that could be like all mixed

906
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:57,360
up in that stuff. If it isn't hypothermy I think

907
00:51:57,400 --> 00:52:01,599
it's that. So thank you, Yeah, thank you, you're a

908
00:52:01,599 --> 00:52:05,400
good friend. Oh, thank you, Joe indulging in my craziness. Yes,

909
00:52:06,079 --> 00:52:08,800
so very interesting case. Let us know what you think. Yeah,

910
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:10,920
this one, I'm intered. I think people will be divided.

911
00:52:11,199 --> 00:52:13,039
I want to know what everyone thinks. But we could

912
00:52:13,079 --> 00:52:15,119
do a foyer request to see if he worked at

913
00:52:15,119 --> 00:52:17,840
the Pentagon. Yeah, I just see if see. I kind

914
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:19,480
of want to do a foyer across to the Pentagon.

915
00:52:20,079 --> 00:52:22,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're gonna get a visit paid to us. Like,

916
00:52:22,199 --> 00:52:24,039
why do you care so much? We want to find

917
00:52:24,119 --> 00:52:25,000
Robert Fitzgerald.

918
00:52:25,079 --> 00:52:25,679
Speaker 3: Yeah.

919
00:52:26,559 --> 00:52:28,519
Speaker 2: Actually, if that he was a company man, they'd be like,

920
00:52:28,599 --> 00:52:30,519
why do you want to find roberts I'll think, Okay,

921
00:52:30,559 --> 00:52:33,719
we don't know, we don't, We definitely don't. Sorry, Yeah,

922
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:35,840
see us off the list. Yeah, please, for the love

923
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:38,599
of God, pretendly this didn't happen. We're just podcasters. It's

924
00:52:38,599 --> 00:52:41,280
not that big of a deal. Yeah, anyway, thanks again

925
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:43,559
for tuning into our show. We appreciate all of you

926
00:52:43,599 --> 00:52:45,840
for listening and sharing locations and known with your friends

927
00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:49,639
and family. Be sure to like and follows on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, YouTube,

928
00:52:49,679 --> 00:52:51,599
and LinkedIn where you can find the videos of each

929
00:52:51,639 --> 00:52:54,840
episode not on LinkedIn on YouTube. But also if you

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00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:57,239
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931
00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:00,480
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932
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and additionally, you can subscribe to our patron account and

933
00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:07,559
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934
00:53:07,559 --> 00:53:11,559
and additional shows for paid customers only. Lastly, when enjoying

935
00:53:11,559 --> 00:53:14,880
the beauty of nature, whether backpacking, camping, or simply taking

936
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:17,599
a walk, always remember to leave no trace.

937
00:53:17,679 --> 00:53:20,039
Speaker 3: Thanks and we will see you all next time.