1 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:24,839 Speaker 1: You were listening to Petlifradio dot com and. 2 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:28,239 Speaker 2: Welcome, welcome, welcome to all of you on this glorious 3 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:31,920 Sunday Sunday morning out here on the West Sunday, just 4 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:34,840 getting it that afternoon hour, just a minute or so 5 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:37,200 after noon in the East. 6 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:40,240 Speaker 3: I'm your host for the next half hour. I am 7 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:43,399 doctor Jeff Werber, host of Asked the Vets with Doctor Jeff, 8 00:00:43,399 --> 00:00:45,560 and we're here for you, here to answer your questions, 9 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:48,920 help you with your pets. Any information that you either 10 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:52,280 couldn't get didn't understand from your veterinarian, you can just 11 00:00:52,439 --> 00:00:55,039 call in, send me a text, send me a note. 12 00:00:55,159 --> 00:00:57,799 Here live at pet Life Radio. You can give us 13 00:00:57,799 --> 00:01:00,240 a call eight seven seven three eight five eight eight 14 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:03,000 eight two once again eight seven seven three eight five 15 00:01:03,079 --> 00:01:05,200 eight eight eight two. You can also log in petlife 16 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:07,799 radio dot com go to ask the Vets tab and 17 00:01:07,879 --> 00:01:10,439 you will join in the conversation. There's a huge box there, 18 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:13,280 just type away. Lastly, you can always send a quick 19 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:17,760 email to Dr Jeff. That's doctor Jeff at Petlifradio dot 20 00:01:17,799 --> 00:01:19,439 com and we'll. 21 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:20,519 Speaker 4: Go ahead and help you out. 22 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:23,959 Speaker 3: And as an extra bonus other than free information, just 23 00:01:24,079 --> 00:01:26,799 for calling, sending me a text joining us on the show. 24 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 4: Don't be bashful. 25 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:30,120 Speaker 3: We will send you out a free pro Sense product 26 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:32,680 and a free Kong product, so you can't lose, you 27 00:01:32,719 --> 00:01:35,000 get you can only win, and anything that we can 28 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:36,760 do to help you and your pets is great. 29 00:01:36,879 --> 00:01:37,400 Speaker 4: I just heard. 30 00:01:37,439 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 3: I was just telling Mark, our producer, that I'm gonna 31 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:41,719 be on next Sunday again on. 32 00:01:41,799 --> 00:01:42,359 Speaker 4: Fox and Friends. 33 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 3: I do a number of Fox and Friends episodes, so 34 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:47,280 I'll be heading to New York myself. I understand it's 35 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:48,599 getting a kind of cold there, huh. 36 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:50,079 Speaker 4: So anyway, any of you. 37 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 3: There in the East, at least at lease come on 38 00:01:51,959 --> 00:01:54,359 and tell me how I used to pack. So but 39 00:01:54,439 --> 00:01:58,040 I'll be there doing a segment on holiday hazards next 40 00:01:58,079 --> 00:01:59,040 Sunday on Fox and Friends. 41 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:00,599 Speaker 4: So that would be that should be fine. Anyway. 42 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:04,359 Speaker 3: We have been on a fairly detailed path over the 43 00:02:04,439 --> 00:02:08,400 last several weeks, and we are talking about some of 44 00:02:08,439 --> 00:02:13,520 the very common endocrine related diseases that we see in 45 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:18,520 our pets. We've spoken about the disease called Cushing's disease. 46 00:02:18,759 --> 00:02:22,319 We then we talked about Addison's disease, and we are 47 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:26,199 going to then we started briefly talk about hyperthyroid hypothyroidism, 48 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:28,439 which we're going to really delve into today. Then we're 49 00:02:28,479 --> 00:02:30,599 going to go into some of the diabetes conditions, the 50 00:02:30,599 --> 00:02:34,240 diabetes melodis and the diabetes incipitous not related. One is 51 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:37,199 a pancreatic problem, and that's the diabetes melods that have 52 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:39,719 to sugar diabetes, and the other one is more of 53 00:02:39,759 --> 00:02:45,240 a brain water balance sodium potassium type of condition. There's 54 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:48,680 a hormone called vasopress and which tells us and helps 55 00:02:48,719 --> 00:02:51,560 us respond and our pets respond to signals from the 56 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,000 rest of the body how much we should be drinking, 57 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:57,879 and of what we drink, how much do the kidneys save, 58 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:01,439 and how much do they get to excret And that 59 00:03:01,599 --> 00:03:03,840 disease is also a disease we have to deal with. 60 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:06,879 Just not to mix the two up anyway, So on 61 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:10,919 our discussion of the thyroid disorders. By the way, if 62 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:14,360 any of you have had animals that have had thyroid problems, 63 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:16,080 we definitely want to hear from you. There are so 64 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:20,479 many different things and so many nuances and different ways 65 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,560 to treat these conditions now that we'd really like to 66 00:03:23,599 --> 00:03:25,639 hear from you. Let us know whether it were successful 67 00:03:25,719 --> 00:03:27,960 or not. How your pets did on the treatment, how 68 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:29,719 your pets did after the treatment, et cetera. 69 00:03:29,879 --> 00:03:30,719 Speaker 4: So don't be shy. 70 00:03:30,759 --> 00:03:32,360 Speaker 3: Give us a call at eight seven seven three eight 71 00:03:32,479 --> 00:03:35,080 five eight eight A two. Share your stories with us, 72 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:38,639 because it's interesting how much our other pet lovers can 73 00:03:38,719 --> 00:03:42,080 learn from the experiences that others have had. Sometimes you 74 00:03:42,479 --> 00:03:44,599 you don't always want to learn this stuff firsthand. You 75 00:03:44,639 --> 00:03:48,000 want to have that preparedness and by hearing others faced 76 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:50,960 with a dilemma as far as treatment and maybe one 77 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,039 or two different methods or three different ways to go 78 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:55,639 when it comes to treatment, hearing other people's stories might 79 00:03:55,639 --> 00:03:57,759 help you decide what might be the best way to go. 80 00:03:57,919 --> 00:04:00,680 Because as is sometimes the case, I don't want to 81 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:02,800 say often the case, but it is sometimes the case, 82 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:05,319 we hear that I'm going to just take this phone away, 83 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:08,639 as is sometimes the case that if you put in 84 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:11,680 five veterinarians into a room, there's a good chance you'll 85 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:14,120 get six different opinions. So we always have to make 86 00:04:14,159 --> 00:04:16,959 sure that medicine is not exact I wish it were. 87 00:04:17,319 --> 00:04:19,720 And as I often joke, I said, we read the 88 00:04:19,759 --> 00:04:22,480 books we learn. You may read the books you may know, 89 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:25,360 but unfortunately our pets haven't read the book, so they 90 00:04:25,399 --> 00:04:28,040 don't know how they're supposed to respond. They don't know 91 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:30,639 how they're supposed to react, and they don't know how they're 92 00:04:30,639 --> 00:04:33,399 supposed to act even with a disease. So that's what 93 00:04:33,439 --> 00:04:36,399 makes what we do so difficult because our patients can't 94 00:04:36,399 --> 00:04:39,279 tell us. We the veterinarian is relying on you to 95 00:04:39,639 --> 00:04:42,959 give us the information and the right information, and sometimes 96 00:04:42,959 --> 00:04:46,759 it's difficult for you as well. So thyroid, interestingly, it's 97 00:04:46,759 --> 00:04:50,000 a gland. It's usually right by the neck. Unlike people, 98 00:04:50,199 --> 00:04:52,920 the two glands are not attached. That is very important 99 00:04:52,959 --> 00:04:55,920 when it comes to potential treatment. In people, there is 100 00:04:55,959 --> 00:04:58,560 what's called an isthmus. It's like a little almost like 101 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:01,360 a piece of land attached to the two thyroids. So 102 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:05,639 frequently when a person has to deal with a thyroid 103 00:05:05,639 --> 00:05:08,079 problem or have a thyroid removed, they have to take 104 00:05:08,079 --> 00:05:11,399 the entire both lobes of the thyroid, where it's really 105 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:13,800 in humans it's more like a single gland that with 106 00:05:13,879 --> 00:05:16,959 two lobes, where in animals are dogs and cats, they're 107 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:17,600 two separate. 108 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,759 Speaker 4: So the condition that we often see, let's talk. 109 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:29,079 Speaker 3: Dogs first, is hypothyroidism, and sadly, hypothyroidism is often overdiagnosed. 110 00:05:29,439 --> 00:05:32,920 And when I say overdiagnosed, it's often diagnosed. A dog 111 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:37,000 is diagnosed with having a hypothyroid condition when in fact 112 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:37,600 they don't. 113 00:05:37,759 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 4: I don't explain why. 114 00:05:38,959 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 3: So it's very important that you need to be a 115 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:45,600 bit more proactive, especially and this is not a stab 116 00:05:45,639 --> 00:05:48,879 at anyone, because I was there in the same place 117 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:52,879 years ago. But there are a number of tests that 118 00:05:52,959 --> 00:05:56,040 need to be run before the diagnosis is made. And 119 00:05:56,079 --> 00:05:58,600 the typical test that is run as part of a 120 00:05:58,759 --> 00:06:02,800 blood screen is called the T four And the problem 121 00:06:02,959 --> 00:06:06,560 is that that level, that T four value can be 122 00:06:06,759 --> 00:06:10,879 very affected by other problems the dog may be having, 123 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:15,560 meaning it will often appear to be low. A doctor 124 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:20,160 might make a diagnosis therefore of hypo thyroidism low thyroid, 125 00:06:20,399 --> 00:06:23,399 when in fact it's not low at all. And we 126 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:27,639 call this sick thyroid syndrome. So it's a puzzle because 127 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:30,240 you have a dog that presents ill. Dogs that often 128 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:33,800 present ill are adr ain't doing right, they are a 129 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:37,000 little sluggish, they may not be eating well, so well, 130 00:06:37,079 --> 00:06:40,879 that could be low thyroid because the thyroid hormone is 131 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:43,879 what sort of keeps us active and adjusts our metabolism. 132 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:47,199 It gets our heart pumping. So dogs that are truly 133 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:52,160 hypothyroid low thyroid levels are often gaining weight. They are 134 00:06:52,399 --> 00:06:56,920 really sluggish, they're moping around. They are more prone to illness, 135 00:06:57,199 --> 00:07:00,720 for example, since the link between the R metabolism and 136 00:07:00,759 --> 00:07:03,680 our immune system, our immune system doesn't function as well 137 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:07,040 in a hypo thyroid state, So these dogs, whereas that 138 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:09,639 a normal bacterium may not cause a problem, and a 139 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:12,800 healthy pet and a dog with hypothyroidism it may. So 140 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:17,680 that's the classic appearance, the classic presentation, if you will, 141 00:07:17,879 --> 00:07:20,959 of what a truly hypothyroid dog is like, Well, if 142 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:22,800 you have a dog it's sick and let's say has 143 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:26,319 a severe intestinal problem. Well, god, they're MOPy, they may 144 00:07:26,319 --> 00:07:28,759 not want to eat, they're sitting around, their skin might 145 00:07:28,759 --> 00:07:31,439 look ugly and dry, and you know all these things. 146 00:07:31,839 --> 00:07:33,800 And then you get your test back and it says, 147 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:35,800 oh my god, the T four is low. 148 00:07:36,079 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 4: That must be hypothyroid. Let's start treating. And that's a 149 00:07:38,759 --> 00:07:40,839 huge mistake, a huge mistake. 150 00:07:41,319 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 3: So what really what needs to be done is to 151 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:49,000 separate out the different type of thyroid hormone to really 152 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:52,759 know for sure whether or not a dog is truly 153 00:07:52,879 --> 00:07:57,120 hypo thyroid low thyroid function. Now I use a T 154 00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:00,000 four as a screening test. I use that a long 155 00:08:00,079 --> 00:08:04,399 with clinical presentation history, age, breed, all those things we 156 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:07,040 call signal mint and to determine whether or not your 157 00:08:07,079 --> 00:08:10,319 dog is truly hypothyroid. And if we have a T 158 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:13,199 four that comes back low and we want to really 159 00:08:13,319 --> 00:08:18,120 rule in or out true hypothyroid versus say sixth thyroid syndrome, 160 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:20,120 then there are some other tests that need to be run. 161 00:08:20,199 --> 00:08:23,759 One is called a free T four by ed ED 162 00:08:24,079 --> 00:08:28,279 stands for equilibrium dialysis. And if free T four by 163 00:08:28,519 --> 00:08:33,080 ED is also low, then very likely that is confirmation 164 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:36,440 that the dog your pet is truly hypo thyroid and 165 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:39,559 could be starting needs to be treated accordingly. Now another 166 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:41,600 test is just like with as you've hope that if 167 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:43,759 you've been paying attention when we talked about cushions and 168 00:08:43,799 --> 00:08:47,200 addisons and all these diseases and pregnosone, the body has. 169 00:08:47,039 --> 00:08:52,919 Speaker 4: An amazing, amazing feedback type of system, or it could read. 170 00:08:52,799 --> 00:08:54,879 Speaker 3: What is low and what is not low, how things 171 00:08:54,879 --> 00:08:58,879 are doing, and then signal the appropriate gland to either 172 00:08:58,919 --> 00:09:01,600 act or not act. And one of the things that 173 00:09:01,639 --> 00:09:03,440 we have with the thyroid is the same thing. The 174 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:06,679 protutary gland in the brain can stimulate the thyroid via 175 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:12,440 a transmitter called TSH. It's a thyroid stimulating hormone. So 176 00:09:12,799 --> 00:09:16,480 when TSH is released by the brain, it signals the 177 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:20,799 thyroids to start pumping out hormone. So when the body 178 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:25,240 is truly truly low on thyroid, not six thyroid syndrome, 179 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:29,320 but low on the thyroid hormones, you can imagine if 180 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:32,440 you figure this out, is tsh's going to be secreted 181 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:35,200 from the brain more or less. Well, it's going to 182 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:38,000 be more because the brain picks up, Oh my god, 183 00:09:38,039 --> 00:09:40,440 we're low thyroid. We got to signal that thyroid gland 184 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:42,480 to get his button gear and start cooking. We need 185 00:09:42,519 --> 00:09:45,039 more thyroid hormone out there. So it sends that signal 186 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:49,440 via TSH. So if you run a TSH level on 187 00:09:49,519 --> 00:09:53,399 a dog that is low thyroid and TSH is normal, 188 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:56,039 what does that tell you. It tells you that the 189 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:59,080 dog's not really low thyroid, because if it were, the 190 00:09:59,159 --> 00:10:01,720 body would have be throwing out more TSH from the 191 00:10:01,759 --> 00:10:05,480 brain and we would have elevated TSH. Which then brings 192 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:08,879 me to the second way to really truly evaluate whether 193 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:11,960 or not the low thyroid T four in the blood 194 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:17,200 is real via TSA. So when TSH is high, meaning 195 00:10:17,519 --> 00:10:19,840 it's picking up the fact that the dog truly is 196 00:10:19,879 --> 00:10:22,480 low thyroid, the brain says, hey, we gotta do something 197 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:23,720 about this, quick, quick, getting the gear. 198 00:10:23,799 --> 00:10:25,039 Speaker 4: Let's split out some TSAH. 199 00:10:25,159 --> 00:10:28,279 Speaker 3: Let's stimulate that thyroid land, and the thyroid land is 200 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:32,919 not listening because the dog has a true thyroid disorder. 201 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:37,159 Then that's another way to confirm the hunts the diagnosis 202 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:41,559 that yes, in fact, the dog is truly hypothyroid. Now, 203 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:43,559 having said all this, and now hopefully you all get 204 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:46,240 a much better understanding. Even in this day and age, 205 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:49,080 and I'm talking this is you know, when I. 206 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:51,840 Speaker 4: Say new, it's not new, it's relatively new. 207 00:10:51,879 --> 00:10:54,960 Speaker 3: It's for the last fifteen years, we've really learned more 208 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:58,679 about the thyroid land. When I started practicing many moons ago, 209 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:00,639 we look at T three TV if they were low, 210 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:03,480 we started supplementing with thyroid hormone. Now we're finding out 211 00:11:03,639 --> 00:11:07,679 we were way over diagnosing true hypothyroid. As a matter 212 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:10,320 of fact, we don't see it as commonly as much, 213 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:12,720 but just it's so interesting. I had a case that 214 00:11:12,879 --> 00:11:16,399 was referred to me, and the dog was on the 215 00:11:16,399 --> 00:11:19,000 thyroid supplement, which we'll get to in a second, and 216 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:23,639 on a post treatment test about two months later, the 217 00:11:23,639 --> 00:11:25,279 thyroid levels were high. 218 00:11:25,639 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 4: So what does that tell you? 219 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:29,639 Speaker 3: It told me that I better look at this dog's 220 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:34,039 records to see what test was used to diagnose the 221 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:37,799 quote unquote hypothyroidism in the first place. And sure enough, 222 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:40,559 all this doctor used was a T four. Here we 223 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:44,039 are in twenty fourteen with all this amazing information, and 224 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:48,480 this doctor made a diagnosis and even worse than that. 225 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:52,519 The low normal, depending on what laboratory for normal thyroid 226 00:11:52,759 --> 00:11:55,480 is either point nine or one whatever, and this. 227 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:57,639 Speaker 4: Dog was point eight. It wasn't even that low. 228 00:11:57,919 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 3: And he didn't do another test, didn't do a TSA, 229 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:03,679 didn't do a T four by ed to truly confirm 230 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:05,960 whether this was true hyperthyroisms. 231 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:06,559 Speaker 4: So what happened? 232 00:12:06,799 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 3: Of course, you start giving this dog thyroid hormone as 233 00:12:09,399 --> 00:12:12,080 a supplement every day, twice a day, and his levels are. 234 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:12,519 Speaker 4: Gonna go up. 235 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:16,320 Speaker 3: You're making the dog hyper thyroid. So that's why you 236 00:12:16,399 --> 00:12:19,600 really need to know that. Don't let and you could challenge, 237 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:22,320 you know, veterinarians, we're okay with being challenged ask questions, 238 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:26,080 especially if the veterinarians older. There's nothing wrong with it. Look, 239 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:28,519 I'm older, so it to make a difference. Do you 240 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:30,840 have to if you if there's any question, you know, 241 00:12:30,919 --> 00:12:32,960 there's so much more that we learn, and you know, 242 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:34,679 it's one of the reasons I joke that I hire 243 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:37,080 young associates because I don't have to go to CE 244 00:12:37,159 --> 00:12:39,559 continue education. I just get all from my young associates. 245 00:12:39,639 --> 00:12:42,320 But it's very important to make that distinction. Treatment I 246 00:12:42,399 --> 00:12:46,399 just alluded to actually fairly simple. Once it's determined that 247 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:49,879 the dog truly is hyper thyroid, treatment is pretty easy. 248 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:51,519 Speaker 4: It is a thyroid supplement. 249 00:12:51,759 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 3: Personally, there are generics out there, and though I'm a 250 00:12:55,159 --> 00:12:58,240 you know, a firm believer that generics are fine are antibotics. 251 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:00,679 I don't have to buy name brand of certain antibotics 252 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:03,399 if it's available now as a generic. And some of 253 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:06,799 these generic companies are great when it comes to replacement hormones. 254 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:10,279 I it's my own take. Obviously, check with the veterinarian. 255 00:13:10,399 --> 00:13:12,960 It's fine, but I kind of like using some of 256 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:15,360 the name brands. There's a really good name brand there too. 257 00:13:15,399 --> 00:13:17,759 One is called thyro Tabs. One is called seloxin. No, 258 00:13:17,879 --> 00:13:19,720 I'm not getting paid by any of them. I'm just 259 00:13:19,759 --> 00:13:23,000 saying that I don't like to buy Levo thyroxin tabs. 260 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:27,039 Surely generic the seloxin has been the industry standard. Thyrotabs 261 00:13:27,039 --> 00:13:29,600 now have also hit the market and are very trustworthy, 262 00:13:29,799 --> 00:13:32,240 but I personally stay away when it comes to hormone 263 00:13:32,279 --> 00:13:36,279 replacements because how important they are using some generic company 264 00:13:36,279 --> 00:13:40,159 that's just spitting out medication from wherever. So anyway, that's 265 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:44,360 our basics year all thyroid at least hypo thyroid experts now, 266 00:13:44,639 --> 00:13:47,240 and given that, we are going to take our quick break, 267 00:13:47,279 --> 00:13:48,879 be back in a few minutes, and we're going to 268 00:13:48,919 --> 00:13:53,240 talk about the opposite of hypo thyratism, which is hyper thyratism, 269 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:56,159 which unless the doctor is giving your dog too much 270 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:58,600 thyroid medication, we don't usually see in dogs, but we 271 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:00,559 see it a lot in cats. 272 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:07,799 Speaker 5: Right back, we'll be right back right after these messages. 273 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:13,639 Speaker 4: Stay tuned. This is my tired of itching face. 274 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 6: Does your dog suffer from persistent itching and scratching? Allergies 275 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:21,840 and skin irritations caused by environment, including pollens, insects, especially fleas, 276 00:14:21,879 --> 00:14:25,159 food and common household allergens are common problems and dogs. 277 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:27,399 It's easy to alleviate your dog's is comfort at home 278 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:30,200 with pro Sense. Pro Sense itch and analogy products provide 279 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:33,960 fast relief from symptoms like it's irritated skin, skin infections 280 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:37,000 like hotspots and watery eyes. Pro Sense products are veteran 281 00:14:37,159 --> 00:14:40,440 formulated and recommended to ensure the very best for your pet. 282 00:14:40,519 --> 00:14:43,480 Try Prosens today. Your dog will thank you for best 283 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:45,919 love life, love them back with pro Sense. 284 00:14:48,279 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 7: It's Designerpetsweaters dot com the latest fashion transfer our furry friends. 285 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:57,279 Handnited designer sweaters for your precious pop or cool cat. 286 00:14:57,399 --> 00:15:00,559 Beautiful coutore patterns for your pets, including us to mood, 287 00:15:00,639 --> 00:15:05,039 formal wear, casualwaar, yachting, and even sports theme. Many designer 288 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:08,639 pet sweaters include feathered tammy hats, top pats and a 289 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:12,080 lot of sparkle. Each sweater includes leg loops, front post 290 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:16,120 leaves and leash opening. Visit Designerpet Sweaters dot com to 291 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:19,600 order your four legged fashions today. Your pets will stay 292 00:15:19,639 --> 00:15:23,000 warm for the winner and be runway ready. Larger small 293 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:26,159 we fit them all Designer Pet Sweaters dot Com. 294 00:15:27,799 --> 00:15:30,879 Speaker 8: There's nothing more delicious and healthy than an old family 295 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:34,639 recipe and for over fifty years, our family's been creating 296 00:15:34,639 --> 00:15:38,799 them especially for your pets. Nutris Source super premium pet foods, 297 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:42,399 dog and cat food that's all natural, ballistic and organic. 298 00:15:42,759 --> 00:15:46,000 Nutri Source pet Foods contain our patented good for Life 299 00:15:46,039 --> 00:15:49,039 system for your pet's optimum health and well being. So 300 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:53,279 order now, safe quality food made by our family for 301 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:57,720 your furry family. Members. Go to nutro Sourcepetfoods dot com for. 302 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 4: Fr food jig El Emilybres. 303 00:16:05,919 --> 00:16:08,639 Speaker 9: Pet Life Radio the number one pet radio network on 304 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:12,320 the planet, showing forces with iHeartRadio to put the power 305 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:16,480 of your pets in your pocket. Download the iHeartRadio app 306 00:16:16,559 --> 00:16:19,200 and rock pet Life Radio on your phone and your tablet, 307 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:22,000 on your Xbox, in your car, Pet Talk, pet Tunes 308 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:27,919 and fun pet Times. Pet Life Radio and iHeartRadio positively possum. 309 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:32,919 Speaker 10: Thinking about buying a monkey, how about a fan or 310 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:35,519 a skunk? Then check out the show that will answer 311 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:38,840 the burning questions. Where do you get them, what do 312 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:41,240 you feed them, how do you take care of them? 313 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:44,200 And most of all, what were you thinking? 314 00:16:44,799 --> 00:16:48,519 Speaker 5: With Exotic pet expert and author Bob Tart every week 315 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:51,679 on demand from Petlife Radio dot Com. 316 00:16:56,759 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 4: Let's Talk Past, Let's Done pets on pet Life Radio Live. 317 00:17:00,399 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 5: Radio, Live Radio dot Com. 318 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:25,079 Speaker 4: And welcome back. You're here with asked with doctor Jeff Bourbert. 319 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 3: That's me, I asked beets with doctor Jeff here on 320 00:17:27,039 --> 00:17:28,680 pet Life Radio, the only live. 321 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:30,319 Speaker 4: Call in radio show. 322 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:34,119 Speaker 3: Call in skype in, write in whatever in just do 323 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:36,599 it so we can talk about we can talk pets. 324 00:17:36,799 --> 00:17:39,559 Before the break, we were discussing as part of our 325 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:42,799 series on the hormone diseases, what we call the endocrine 326 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:47,079 diseases affecting our pets. We were talking about hypothyroidism, that's 327 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:51,039 low thyroid hormone disorder, which we see in dogs and 328 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:53,960 again to recap, the typical symptom is that dog that's 329 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:57,720 got kind of mopey putting on weight, lack of energy. 330 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:02,000 Skin is sometimes very dull, sometimes greasy. We see this 331 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:04,079 a lot. If I see a dog like this, a 332 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:07,799 Golden Retriever like this, I'm thinking primary hypotheridism. But we 333 00:18:08,279 --> 00:18:11,960 caution about making a diagnosis too quickly because of the 334 00:18:12,039 --> 00:18:15,400 fact that other conditions will drop our t for the 335 00:18:15,519 --> 00:18:19,079 thyroid hormone, the standard thyroid hormone that's often included in 336 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:21,599 most of the blood tests, and we can have what's 337 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:25,880 called a false decrease of thyroid doctor goes ahead, starts 338 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:30,200 supplementing without confirming, and that can lead to some problems, 339 00:18:30,599 --> 00:18:35,400 actually creating a hyper thyroid state. Now, hyperthyroidism, that is 340 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:38,160 an over secretion of the gland. 341 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 4: And there it's the opposite. 342 00:18:40,279 --> 00:18:42,839 Speaker 3: Of course, we see it in cats, and it often 343 00:18:43,039 --> 00:18:45,599 is seen in cats, older cats. And you know what's 344 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:47,480 so weird about it is, I mean, we're talking. This 345 00:18:47,599 --> 00:18:49,920 could be diagnosed in a cat that's sixteen or seventeen 346 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:53,079 and perfect, and the only challenge is and by the way, 347 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:56,799 one of my older cats sixteen actually does or did 348 00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:00,640 I could say, nicely happily have hyperthyroidism. He's a Maine 349 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:04,920 coon Norwegian forest cat cross. He's huge, twenty two pounds 350 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:07,559 and not fat, so I'm noticing him. He's getting older, 351 00:19:07,599 --> 00:19:11,440 he's sixteen, everything's fined, eating up a storm, happy, all good. 352 00:19:11,799 --> 00:19:13,039 But I noticed when I pick him up and I 353 00:19:13,079 --> 00:19:15,240 brush him, he's losing another weight. So I bring him 354 00:19:15,279 --> 00:19:19,359 in and he was down to fourteen pounds. That's eight pounds, 355 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:22,160 but he's so big and fluffy it's really hard to tell. 356 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:25,160 So it was due anyway for his annual physical So 357 00:19:25,319 --> 00:19:27,839 I'm taking bloods and now what I do, and I 358 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:31,720 recommend this, and I've spoken to many veterinarian telling them 359 00:19:31,839 --> 00:19:34,079 to do this as part of the routine that when 360 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:37,839 I do a blood test, an annual senior blood test 361 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:43,200 on a cat over seven, I always automatically include that 362 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:45,720 T flour by ed, that is the free T flour 363 00:19:45,799 --> 00:19:48,599 by ed equilibrium intalysis. We talked about it in the 364 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:51,279 last of first fifteen minutes as far as dogs and 365 00:19:51,319 --> 00:19:56,440 to really differentiate between true hypo or hyperthyroidism and the 366 00:19:56,680 --> 00:20:00,200 actual T four level itself that can be effected by 367 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:03,359 many other things. And sure enough, with a high normal 368 00:20:03,519 --> 00:20:06,920 free T four by ed from ten to fifty, good 369 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:10,279 old Oreo was over one hundred and greater than one 370 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:12,839 hundred means that they stop counting when you hit over 371 00:20:12,839 --> 00:20:15,839 one hundred. So ahead of my diagnosis, I'm thinking that's it. 372 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:19,559 Of course, so interestingly and happily for Oreo and of 373 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:22,359 course me, his kidneys at sixteen are still. 374 00:20:22,279 --> 00:20:23,519 Speaker 4: Doing amazingly well. 375 00:20:23,799 --> 00:20:27,480 Speaker 3: And the reason why I mentioned that specifically is that cats, 376 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:32,000 as they get older, probably with each advancing year, especially 377 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,119 when they hit the late teens, they will probably one 378 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:38,119 hundred percent or pretty close to that, succumb to kidney failure. 379 00:20:38,559 --> 00:20:42,240 So when you have a cat that is also concurrently 380 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:45,240 hyper thyroid, you have to think about this for a second. 381 00:20:45,519 --> 00:20:46,279 Speaker 4: But when you have a. 382 00:20:46,319 --> 00:20:49,599 Speaker 3: Hyperthyroid cat who also has kidney disease, believe it or not, 383 00:20:49,839 --> 00:20:52,200 the kidney disease doesn't look as bad. 384 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 4: And here's why. What do the kidneys do? 385 00:20:54,279 --> 00:20:56,759 Speaker 3: The kidneys are filters, if you will, and they're filtering 386 00:20:56,799 --> 00:20:59,359 all these bad things out from the blood, and blood 387 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,519 is pumping well, if you can imagine that, since dogs 388 00:21:02,599 --> 00:21:05,680 that are hypo thyroid, everything is moving more slowly. The 389 00:21:05,759 --> 00:21:08,680 heart is slowing down. What happens to a cat that's 390 00:21:08,799 --> 00:21:12,640 hyper thyroid, Their blood is pumping faster. They're going through 391 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:16,400 the system more so every pass. If you have a filter, 392 00:21:16,519 --> 00:21:18,559 for example, any kind of a coffee filter, and you 393 00:21:18,759 --> 00:21:23,400 run it through twice, right, so it's going to keep 394 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:25,480 a lot of that bad stuff out better than had 395 00:21:25,519 --> 00:21:27,759 you just done it once you get that second pass. 396 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:30,319 Speaker 4: Well, so here you have these kidneys and a cat. 397 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:32,519 Speaker 3: And an older cat that aren't working quite up to par, 398 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:36,440 and yet you are passing the blood through more than 399 00:21:36,759 --> 00:21:40,279 once per cycle because the heart's racing much faster because 400 00:21:40,279 --> 00:21:43,640 of the hyper thyroidism. So what you would normally use 401 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:48,359 to determine kidney function, the value is called bun creatinine. 402 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:49,759 Speaker 4: We'll get to that way later. 403 00:21:49,839 --> 00:21:50,000 Speaker 7: Time. 404 00:21:50,039 --> 00:21:52,119 Speaker 3: We talked about the kidney, but all of a sudden 405 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:55,039 it doesn't look so bad. But what happens you finally 406 00:21:55,119 --> 00:22:00,759 successfully treat the thyroid problem. The heart normalizes, slows down, 407 00:22:01,079 --> 00:22:03,440 you don't get that extra pass through the weekending kidney, 408 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:06,400 and all of a sudden, you can imagine your kidney 409 00:22:06,519 --> 00:22:09,799 values shoot up. So it's difficult, you know, to tell 410 00:22:09,839 --> 00:22:12,839 a client, oh my god, we got these minor second disease, 411 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:15,920 which we know in older cats becomes the major disease, and. 412 00:22:16,319 --> 00:22:17,599 Speaker 4: We see it abruptly. 413 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:21,839 Speaker 3: When we fix the thyroid gland, it'll fix the hyperthyroidism, 414 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,200 but it's still when push comes to shove, you really 415 00:22:24,279 --> 00:22:27,079 have to treat the hyperthidism because because these cats, I mean, 416 00:22:27,279 --> 00:22:30,279 they can get so thin ultimately pretty weak, and then 417 00:22:30,519 --> 00:22:34,519 as they get sicker because of the untreated hyper thyrotism 418 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:37,079 all right, where they've been pretty active and eating well 419 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:39,480 but still losing weight, then they start slowing down because 420 00:22:39,519 --> 00:22:42,599 they're feeling lousy, and then they're still eating, but now 421 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:44,519 they start putting on weight, so you think, oh my god, 422 00:22:44,559 --> 00:22:47,400 well maybe it's not hyperthyroidism. So it's very important and 423 00:22:47,519 --> 00:22:50,400 I just advise, and there's nothing wrong with saying to 424 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:52,559 your veterinarian, oh you're treating my old cat. You're going 425 00:22:52,599 --> 00:22:54,119 to doing some blood test and my old cat. Can 426 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,480 you make sure that we really do both thyroid tests. 427 00:22:57,559 --> 00:23:00,319 I want to check for hyper thyroidism as well, So 428 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:03,559 that's very important to include that in the basic testing. 429 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:07,720 So as far as treatment with hyper thyroidism years ago, 430 00:23:07,799 --> 00:23:11,400 when I in fact I remember my first case of hyperthyroidism, 431 00:23:11,599 --> 00:23:14,400 another value that is often high. You know, we talked 432 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:18,599 about the masking the kidneys, but we often see elevated 433 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:21,680 liver enzymes with hyperthyroidism and cats. Then, of course, as 434 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:24,279 we discussed the heart's racing like crazy. You can have 435 00:23:24,279 --> 00:23:26,240 a heart rate over to forty two hundred and forty. 436 00:23:26,279 --> 00:23:28,799 I mean, it's insane how fast their hearts started pumping. 437 00:23:29,079 --> 00:23:32,039 So remember when I first started working for my ex boss, 438 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:35,160 I had a cat, seventeen year old cat that he 439 00:23:35,279 --> 00:23:38,359 had diagnosed. He had seen and wanted to diagnose or 440 00:23:38,519 --> 00:23:42,319 treat the heart disease and the liver disease and gave 441 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:44,880 this client, obviously, with a seventeen year old cat with 442 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,640 heart disease and the concurrent liver disease, a very poor prognosis. 443 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:52,000 And here I come along, the young veterinarian and knowing 444 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,559 a little bit more about some thyroid issues. I first 445 00:23:54,559 --> 00:23:57,519 of all, we did a test to evaluate thyroid. And 446 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,720 because I could feel the gland, and because they know 447 00:24:01,799 --> 00:24:04,359 there's a tenet in medicine and this is for humans, 448 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,559 this is don't look for four different diseases going on 449 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,599 at once. I'm sure you guys watch House MD right 450 00:24:10,839 --> 00:24:13,400 what you're looking for is the one disease that can 451 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:17,480 cause all of these symptoms. Well, I'm thinking old cat. 452 00:24:17,759 --> 00:24:20,279 I could feel little knobs in the neck, fast heart rate, 453 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:21,160 liver disease. 454 00:24:21,319 --> 00:24:22,519 Speaker 4: I don't think it's two different disease. 455 00:24:22,519 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 3: I don't think if cat's got heart disease and liver disease, 456 00:24:25,039 --> 00:24:29,119 I think it's got thyroid. We tested sure enough hyperthyroid. Well, 457 00:24:29,319 --> 00:24:32,559 this was thirty years ago. We didn't have some of 458 00:24:32,599 --> 00:24:35,319 the treatments and the treatment of choice then, and it 459 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:36,400 was all about surgery. 460 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:38,400 Speaker 4: And we have to end up our show. 461 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:40,440 Speaker 3: We're going to finish this discussion next week or the 462 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,000 week after, depending on whether I can join you live, 463 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:44,400 because I will be in New York. I may be 464 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,720 on a plane at noon Eastern time after doing my show. 465 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:50,160 Speaker 4: But the only choice of treatment was surgery. 466 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:52,720 Speaker 3: And here I am, young guy right out of school 467 00:24:53,039 --> 00:24:55,640 taking the thyroid glands out of the seventeen year old 468 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,400 cat full anesthesia. Clearly well ps this cat made it 469 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,160 to nineteen and a half and it was just an 470 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:06,519 amazing case. But fortunately surgery now is not quite passe. 471 00:25:06,759 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 4: It's still done. But we have many other options, and 472 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:10,960 one the way they treat humans. 473 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:13,359 Speaker 3: And I'm going to leave you into spent until next 474 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,160 week or hopefully next week, maybe the week after, if 475 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:18,720 you get a chance. Fox and Friends next week, if 476 00:25:18,759 --> 00:25:20,640 you ever, if anyone, if you're in New York and 477 00:25:20,799 --> 00:25:23,880 you want to come down to the studio Fox Studios 478 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,519 on sixth Avenue in the high forties. We usually shoot 479 00:25:27,559 --> 00:25:30,279 our segments outside. Might be cool to walk by and 480 00:25:30,799 --> 00:25:34,759 visit us, And that's Fox and Friends next Sunday. Otherwise 481 00:25:34,839 --> 00:25:37,279 I'll be with you next Sunday or maybe in two weeks. 482 00:25:37,759 --> 00:25:40,119 I want to once again thank our sponsors pro Sense 483 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:44,440 Pet Products, the barony quality pet products available at the 484 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:50,079 over the counter at the mass stores like like Walmart, 485 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:52,880 and also Calm Toys. 486 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,440 Speaker 4: So have a great week. I'll be back either next 487 00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:57,240 week or the week after. 488 00:25:57,319 --> 00:25:58,839 Speaker 3: But again, if you are happen to be in New 489 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:00,519 York and you're listening and you want to come down 490 00:26:01,039 --> 00:26:04,079 Sunday morning and watch Box and Friends live, then come 491 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,759 on down, introduce yourselves, have a pleasant week. 492 00:26:06,839 --> 00:26:09,200 Speaker 4: We'll be back. I'm doctor Jeff Warber. Thanks for joining me. 493 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:14,359 Speaker 5: Let's Talk Pets every week on demand only on Petlife 494 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:15,599 Radio dot com.