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Speaker 1: What is up, fella, Siko's I Am Dana Valley coming

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at you with a very special and returning guest, mister

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Keith Smith of I'm Gonna fuck this up again Keith

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spot track.

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Speaker 2: We got it this time.

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Speaker 1: We also host the NBA Front Office Show with Trevor Lane.

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They talk about a lot of stuff over there, so

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go check them out. The links to Keith stuff will

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be in the podcast YouTube description. As always, Keith, how

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the heck are you doing?

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Speaker 3: I'm doing well, man. It's a great time in the

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basketball calendar. We got March Madness cranking up. NBA playoffs

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are only a few weeks away. That means that the

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off season is coming around, which is a big thing

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in my world. So all good man, I'm super excited

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for all of it's.

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Speaker 1: Come I'm gonna ask you a lot about off season things,

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but I want to ask you one sort of current

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events stuff.

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Speaker 2: How do you when we get into.

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Speaker 1: Like sort of the post All Star break where we

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see these breakouts or these trends, like I get hyped

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up about some of them, like a Quentin Grimes or

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is ichnology, But how much value do you ascribe to

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performances in the NBA, they're like kind of happening right now,

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Like do you take it with a measure of skepticism.

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Speaker 3: A little bit? I make note of it. So a

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good example Jake Laavia last year, Memphis is in the

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middle of a loss season. They're done, they stink, But

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he put up a string of really good games in

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a row, like game after game after game was really solid.

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They put the ball in his hands a lot. And

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I just made a note of it to see, all right,

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when we get into next year and things are more

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normal and they're playing a win again, what does that

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look like? And then some of that did carry over,

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Like you could see he's playing more confidence. He was

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a little bit more comfortable doing things off the dribble,

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attack and closeouts, stuff like that. So little things like that,

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I try to make a note of it. But yeah,

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if a guy is like scoring thirty points per game

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on thirty three percent shooting, I'm a little like, yeah,

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all right, somebody has to take all those shots for

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these bad teams. And he's the guy.

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Speaker 1: That you just gave Sixers fans a lot of hope,

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then that maybe Quentin Grimes will carry over into what

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he's doing right now. Next season, So Keith and I

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will get two teams that we think are really going

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to define and shape the offseason. But I want to

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ask about a lot of the sort of the CBA

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fallout that we've seen over the past year or so

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first before we get there, which can in turn shape

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that discussion.

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Speaker 2: I want to start here.

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Speaker 1: When you saw like the and you really dove into

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and you were on the podcast talking about it, like

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the CBA when it was first agreed upon, and even

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as the changes started to be implemented, what did you

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think were the primary intentions behind the way the CBA

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was structured And do you think that those primary tensions

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have now played out or are accurately.

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Speaker 2: Playing out the way that the league intended.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think there were there was two ends. The

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one that got all the attention was very high profile,

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was taking the very high spending teams and bringing them down,

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bringing them back more to the pack, so the Warriors,

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the Clippers, where the nets were headed. That's what they

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wanted to do. But the other side, it didn't get

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as talked about quite as much, was to bring the

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teams that were down here and bring them up a

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little bit and bring everybody closer to the middle, bring

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everybody more to the same, so everybody knows, right, you

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can't have these super duper expensive teams, or if you can,

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there's all these restrictions that's going to make life really

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hard on you. Phoenix Suns, for example, what people I

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think missed a little was before the new CBA, you

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had the Spurs and the Pacers going into the season

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with thirty forty million dollars in cap space just sitting unused.

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And what the NBA really wanted to do was introduce

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more money being used. So it sounds crazy to say it,

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but the less less you bring teams down, or the

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less you allow teams to spend, the more players they

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can actually pay. Because they're not spending it all on

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five guys, they're able then to sign other guys and

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use exceptions and all that. And you're getting, you know,

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in range of instead of one hundred guys make make

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all the money and three hundred make you know, very

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little money, you now have maybe fifty make all the money,

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or eventually we'll get there and then you're gonna have

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even less, even more guys making you know, a whole

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bunch of money. And that's that's where they wanted to go.

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They wanted to introduce spending for those teams that were

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content to sit under the cap. And I think largely

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it's played out. Okay, you had kind of the phase

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in years which the Celtics and Bucks and Suns used

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to be fuck their rosters and add guys that they

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could no longer add if this was starting right now.

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So they're just in a spot where once those teams

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kind of play themselves out and that'll come over the

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next you know, so many years, probably sooner for Phoenix

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than than the other teams. But but as that comes

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then then I think we're gonna see it much more.

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Even playing field never be truly even, because not every

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ownership group has the same kind of spending power or

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ability or your ability to go get the right people

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collecting talent. But but I do think we're gonna see uh,

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the bounce out a lot more.

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Speaker 1: There's always the everyone talks about unintended consequences of not

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just new cbas, but when there's new rule changes. So

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far there's probably still developments to come. What do you

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view as the primary unintended consequence that's really bore out

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so far?

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Speaker 2: As a result of the new rules.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think a lot got made over no one's

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going to be able to make trades and all that stuff,

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and then we saw this wild blockbuster trade deadline with

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you know, tons of big name superstars moving around and

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all kinds of stuff. Teams will always find a way,

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you know, one of my favorite movies is Jurassic Park.

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Life finds a way. NBA team will away, right, so

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they will figure it out, you know. With that, I

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think I think one thing that was definitely unintended was

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the amount of teams that sat on their non tax

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payer EML to then use it as a trade traded

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player exception, because that's a new change, that's something that's

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that's newer, and you saw very few teams use that

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as a spending tool to sign players to contracts. Most

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of them sat on that exception and then used it

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as a trade exception during the course of the year,

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which that's not really what the league wanted. The league

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still want those being spent because if you think about it, right,

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if I trade, if I have that twelve million dollar

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exception and I trade for a twelve million dollar player,

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there's no new money being introduced into the system. There,

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that's just twelve million dollar players being moved around for

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a twelve into a twelve million dollar exception. If I

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signed it, signed a player for twelve million, and then

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traded a twelve million player for a twelve million player,

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at least I've introduced twelve million new dollars and into

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the system. And that's one where I think that that

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was just a little bit of a miss, And that's

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teams being conservative and saying, hey, we don't really like

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the guys who are available right now in July, so

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let's hold and see if something better comes our way

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for a better use of that later. So that's I

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think one of the more unintended things that happened.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that was something you and I had talked about

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last year as to how many teams would hold it

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to try to use it as a traded player exception.

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The one that I don't know that I saw coming,

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And this is just anecdotally, and it feels maybe you

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knew it was coming because it feels sort of obvious

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in retrospect. The number of deals that just need to

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be three or more teams now feels like that's just

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it's through the roof, and that it's going to become

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the standard, like, because these teams are going to need

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to figure out a way to make the money work.

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When you look at teams that either they can't take

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back more money than they receive or they don't want

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to take back more money than they received because of

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the ape like being hard tapped. Did you see that

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one coming out? We were gonna have this influx of

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three and like four and more team deals.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Not that I'm like patting myself on the back,

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burning stroke a genius here, but I kind of knew

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it was gonna have to be that way only because

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of the restrictions around if you take back more than

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one hundred percent, you're hard capped at the first Apron.

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If you are a second Apron team and still over

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this and Apron, you can't aggregate contracts going out. I knew,

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all right, we're gonna need this to turn into being

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a multi team trade to get money going, you know,

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moving around the way it needs to. I was wondering

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how teams were gonna pull it off because you didn't

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have teams sitting on you know, twenty thirty million dollars

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in caps. We should the Pistons sitting on about fourteen

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or so, and that's that's about where we'll be. I think,

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you know, that's you know, roughly ten percent of the

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cap is what any team can carry in now to

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the season because if you're not over the luxury tax

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line by the time the season starts, they do or

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the luxury tax line the salary cap line. By the

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time the season starts, they're gonna put a cap hold

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on your books, which brings you up to the ninety

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percent marker, which is the salary floor. And then what

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happens is you can you still have that wigger room there,

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and that's ten percent of the cap. You have that

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wiggle room to use in trades if you want to

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sit on cap space. But the rest, but the bigger

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penalty is you don't share in the luxury attacks check

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if you if you don't meet at least the salary floor.

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So everybody's from now moving forward, everyone's going to meet

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the salary floor because no team is going to say, yeah,

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we can four go twelve to fifteen million dollars for

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nothing at the end of the season, like that's not

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going to be a thing. So so that's I think

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where we get to be a little bit of a

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challenge with that.

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Speaker 1: I think this is an intended consequence, but I underestimated

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it of how many teams would be actively either afraid

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or trying to avoid being in the second apron And

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so I'm kind of wondering that. You know, I don't

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matt Ishbiah for the Suns that just said he's going

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to continue to spend whatever it takes. But they're just

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a bad example because they're bad. And so I look

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at a team like Boston that has the ability to

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be sustainably great, do you think they'll be a good

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lit miss test, especially because they they're not barren completely

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of draft picks moving forward, for the stomach that these

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teams have to stay in the second rapeens where we're

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not just talking about your pick seven years out being frozen,

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but potentially getting moved to the end of the first round,

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or they not even a good case study because they

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have like the whole ownership change potentially immin it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, if we take the ownership change out, because who

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knows what that will bring, right, You're always hopeful that'll

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bring somebody who says, spend even more. Right, let's go crazy,

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because if you're a sports fan. The only time you

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should ever root for ownership is a sports fan is

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when they're writing massive checks for your team. Like other

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than that, like who cares? Like let the money go

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to the to the players and the coaches and the

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front office people who actually do the real work instead

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of a billionaire for his toy and his hobby. So

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I always kind of say, you know, right, the role

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of a sports owner is how good people get out

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of the way and write really big checks. Like that's

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what you should do. With that said, if the Celtics,

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let's say ownership is just say, they're basically the same, right, like,

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like it's same attitude towards spending and all that. I

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think what you'll see with them is and I think

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that that this will be the kind of approach for

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any other team that finds themselves in a similar position

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to Boston will be as long as you're competing for

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the title, and by that I mean you're at least

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in a competitive conference finals, will feel good about continuing

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to spend that the level we're at. I don't think

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you're gonna see like, let's say they go back to back,

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I don't think you're gonna see them say well, you know,

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we're just too expensive. Time to trade Christaps Porzingis or

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move Jalen Brown or whatever it is, because one you're

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gonna have to take money back anyway. So I think

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I think it's as long as we're competitive and we're

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right there, it'll be very hard to break up those

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teams because fans just won't stand for it, especially you know,

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very loud fan base like the Celtics have. So but

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the minute they're slippage there, let's say they let's say

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they lose before the conference finals. Let's say the Cavs

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blow their doors off in the conference finals. Then I

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think you're gonna see, all right, hey, we need to

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make some changes. One, because that's the natural inclination is

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we didn't succeed, so let's make some changes. But two

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it'll be we didn't succeed and we're wildly expensive. We

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need we need to do something different and that.

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Speaker 1: So, if anything, it feels like it might prompt teams

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to be more reactive to coming up short, like in

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the playoffs, where it's I think, if so, if you

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went to the conference finals of the Celtics after winning

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the title, let's say you lose in five games. Yeah,

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there might be a natural inclination in general to want

261
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to make changes, but if you weren't facing the second

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apron restrictions, maybe be like, well, it's the conference finals,

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we just want a title.

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Speaker 2: Let's give it another year.

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Speaker 1: But it seems like there'll be more instances of sort

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of like even with Minnesota, kind of the way they've

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like remade their roster where it's if you fail, and

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by fail me not winning the title. Teams will just

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be quicker to make wholesale reactions to that failure.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think we may see that for sure. I

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think there's gonna be much shorter windows given. Like, no,

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I don't want to continue to make everything about Celtics.

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I mean I will happily, but I'm not going to.

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But with them, that kind of core group got to

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bang their head against the wall for how many times

276
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right before they finally broke through and they were able

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to get through, I don't think you're gonna necessarily see that.

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Like say the Wolves make a nice run this year

279
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and then next year they're in the conference finals again,

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then it's an NBA Finals. I don't think you're going

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to see them Just let's keep plow the money into

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this group and get there. I think it'll be all right.

283
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We didn't break through. Time to retool. I don't think

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it'll be let's tear it all the way down. They'll

285
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certainly always be those situations that will happen, but I

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think it'll be more of all right, this is not

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the right mix. Let's see where we go. Like the

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Calves might be a really good example. They don't get

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through this year. I don't know that they come back

290
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exactly the same or mostly the same. I think you

291
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might see then say, all right, let's make a couple changes.

292
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What worked, what didn't work? What should we look to move? Change,

293
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switch out, and go in a slightly different direction, because

294
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that pressure is just going to be so much to

295
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be one. If we don't do it sooner rather than later,

296
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we may get stuck with this group a little bit

297
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and then all of a sudden, it is all right.

298
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Now where we've turned what could have been a let's

299
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retool on the fly, Then maybe we end up rebuilding

300
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into a all right, we're just kind of stuck around

301
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the fifth, sixth, seventh best team in the conference for

302
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years and years and years because we can't get out

303
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of this now because we just get kind of stuck

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in it.

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Speaker 1: I'm also interested to see if there's the not these

306
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aren't necessarily I guess the Houston's an up and coming team.

307
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But where you have Houston and OKAC specifically, where it's

308
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you have a players, multiple players on their rookie scales

309
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who can turn into max or near max players, like

310
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we've seen Houston with Jalen Green and Shangun already, They're

311
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probably been more fascinating than OKAC just because shan Gun

312
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Jalen Green. Of all, you have Aman Thompson and Tari Easton,

313
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and then Jabari and Easner extension as well.

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Speaker 2: This summer.

315
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Speaker 1: I'm curious if we see more players being moved, well,

316
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maybe they're still on their rookie deals. If you have

317
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enough and you're worried about having yeah, we call them

318
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the fun Maxes or Brian Windhorst the fun Maxes or

319
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the fun extensions. But if you have, if you built

320
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your team through a rebuilding, you have all these higher

321
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profile draft picks, you might command a lot of money.

322
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We've yet to see it, of course, I'm wondering if

323
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that becomes an offshoot of the way that the CBA

324
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set up right now.

325
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it certainly could. I always say it

326
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sounds awesome to have seventy eighty nine to ten extra

327
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draft picks in like a five year window or whatever

328
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it is, until they all kind of hit and then

329
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you're gonna pay everybody. And there's no team in the

330
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league that could do that. So that's where I think

331
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what you may see good example with Houston. Right, So

332
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let's say Houston has a nice little run here, they

333
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make a little noise in the playoffs, but not a

334
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real contender. I think what you see is, well, rather

335
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than pay both Jabari Smith and Tario Easton, and I

336
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have Thompson's extension looming, and we've got, you know, to

337
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do something with Fred van Vliet and all that, I

338
00:16:09,799 --> 00:16:13,480
think what you'll see them do is let's take two

339
00:16:13,519 --> 00:16:17,679
or three of those guys consolidate them into I'm gonna

340
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use Kevin Durant as the example. Even though a million

341
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people have gone there and they Houston has said a

342
00:16:22,879 --> 00:16:26,080
million times over, no, like we're not doing that. But

343
00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:30,639
you know, okay, I believe yeah exactly. Yeah, they're always

344
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very upfront in their negotiations, especially through the media. But

345
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I think what but that type of move where it

346
00:16:38,759 --> 00:16:40,919
is right, we'll go get the guy who can maybe

347
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push us over the top, and then we can play

348
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a little more year to year with that guy going forward.

349
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I think those are the kind of things you're gonna

350
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see teams, do you know, over the next let's call

351
00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:55,720
it probably three four years until things kind of renormalize again,

352
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because that's what what happens with the new CBA is

353
00:17:00,519 --> 00:17:03,440
first few years are always we're figuring it out. We're

354
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kind of learning how to live under this new world.

355
00:17:06,079 --> 00:17:09,160
We're figuring out how all right, who else who's making

356
00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:12,440
mistakes that we can take advantage of. I'm under this

357
00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:14,680
new world where can we kind of pick off talent

358
00:17:14,839 --> 00:17:19,359
or pickoff assets because they're they're stuck this way? And

359
00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:22,920
then what you see as everything starts to renormalize when

360
00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:26,240
we get into a spall where about four to five

361
00:17:26,319 --> 00:17:30,000
years into it, and then of course it's let's renegotiated

362
00:17:30,039 --> 00:17:32,119
again and change all these rules all over again and

363
00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:34,200
after we relearn it. But those are kind of the

364
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windows we live.

365
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Speaker 2: In with this.

366
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Speaker 1: You can correct me if you disagree here, but I

367
00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:41,359
feel like we are in a golden age of minimally

368
00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:43,960
bad contracts in the league where just the combination of

369
00:17:44,279 --> 00:17:46,759
you know, cap growth outpacing raises, and then the.

370
00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:49,160
Speaker 2: Deals are just because of the extensions being signed.

371
00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:50,759
Speaker 1: A lot of times they're just shorter where it's okay,

372
00:17:50,799 --> 00:17:52,960
like this player's under contract for four total years instead

373
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of five. With that said, I feel like maybe the

374
00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:57,920
past two seasons specifically, and I don't know if this

375
00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:00,319
is maybe part of the renormalization where teams don't know

376
00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:02,319
what they're dealing with in the let's call it the

377
00:18:02,319 --> 00:18:04,319
apron era, so that's why they're viewed this way. But

378
00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:07,599
like zach Lavine and Jeremy Grant specifically, are two contracts

379
00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:10,279
where you know, the Jeremy Grant won no one celebrated

380
00:18:10,319 --> 00:18:12,319
in real time. They found it curious, mostly because of

381
00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:15,160
Portland's direction, but the way that the view of that

382
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:17,240
contract has aged, and then even the way that like

383
00:18:17,839 --> 00:18:20,759
zach Lavine's contract has aged and then what he was

384
00:18:20,839 --> 00:18:23,119
I know it's the bulls, but like what they ultimately

385
00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:25,400
got for him for a player who's still really good,

386
00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:27,799
and for a contract that at this point there's only

387
00:18:27,799 --> 00:18:30,119
two more guaranteed years left on and it's not like

388
00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:32,240
it's the end of the world. Are we going to

389
00:18:32,319 --> 00:18:35,240
now pivot back into where it'll be easier to spot

390
00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:38,920
like quote unquote bad deals or do you think that

391
00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:41,559
this is just maybe a short term by product of

392
00:18:41,599 --> 00:18:43,599
teams figuring out the aprons.

393
00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:46,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think we're in a spot where there are

394
00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:49,720
less bad ones. I used to write annul aired write

395
00:18:49,759 --> 00:18:53,279
up a contra list of the ten worse contracts in

396
00:18:53,319 --> 00:18:55,960
the NBA, and this year we didn't do it because

397
00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:58,319
it was just by the end it was gonna be like,

398
00:18:58,759 --> 00:19:00,720
a we'll put this one on there, but it's really

399
00:19:00,799 --> 00:19:03,400
not that bad. Let me now explain why it's really

400
00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:05,640
not that bad. And that's kind of at that point,

401
00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:07,200
it's like, there, what are we doing the list for?

402
00:19:07,759 --> 00:19:10,200
Are there some bad ones? Of course are There's always

403
00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:12,400
gonna be a handful where it's like, oh no, you

404
00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:15,440
know what happened there. But Zach Levine's a great example.

405
00:19:16,319 --> 00:19:18,920
I had said, and you know this from private chats

406
00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:22,559
and stuff we've had, I don't think Zach Colvine's a

407
00:19:22,559 --> 00:19:27,079
bad contract. From the standpoint of that was mostly about health.

408
00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:31,799
If he was healthy, super productive, pretty efficient guy, pretty

409
00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:35,480
plug him play in that he can play with a

410
00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:37,799
lot of different players, because he could play on ball,

411
00:19:37,799 --> 00:19:39,839
he could play off ball, he could do a lot

412
00:19:39,839 --> 00:19:44,119
of different things. So that's where it felt like we

413
00:19:44,519 --> 00:19:47,880
kind of in this rush to declare everything good or bad.

414
00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:51,519
We were like, oh, that's horrible, what a trrendous contract. Yeah,

415
00:19:51,759 --> 00:19:54,680
if he continue to have knee issues and foot issues

416
00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:57,160
and everything else he had going on, that was gonna

417
00:19:57,160 --> 00:19:58,880
be a bad contract because you just weren't gonna say

418
00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:01,680
him on the floor. But once he was proven this

419
00:20:01,799 --> 00:20:05,039
year of the he's pretty much pass all that stuff. Yeah,

420
00:20:05,039 --> 00:20:07,200
it doesn't look that bad. Now, on the flip side,

421
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:09,559
you have one like Bradley Beal, which is a Max

422
00:20:09,599 --> 00:20:12,920
deal with a no trade. So I think what's happened

423
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:16,240
is teams have gotten smarter. They've also gotten a little

424
00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:20,400
more conservative, and players have played into it in a

425
00:20:20,559 --> 00:20:24,240
sense of they don't have the patience to necessarily stay

426
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:28,519
in a place long enough to earn a major, large,

427
00:20:28,559 --> 00:20:31,559
bad contract. Where now it is I want to move

428
00:20:31,599 --> 00:20:35,279
somewhere else. Then if it's you move, sometimes it takes

429
00:20:35,279 --> 00:20:38,480
away the supermax. Like Luca didn't ask for a trade,

430
00:20:38,519 --> 00:20:41,480
but Luca can't. Even if Luca does turn out to

431
00:20:41,519 --> 00:20:44,160
be five hundred pounds next year, and can barely walk

432
00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:47,599
like it's never gonna be a super Max deal because

433
00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:49,759
he can't get one anymore. So I think that's where

434
00:20:49,759 --> 00:20:52,640
his players have pushed for more movement and things like that.

435
00:20:53,039 --> 00:20:56,119
Barely anybody ever qualifies for no trade clause. That's why

436
00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,160
they're so so rare. And then you're gonna see teams,

437
00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:01,839
I think, be extremely sting you with them anyway, because

438
00:21:01,839 --> 00:21:03,440
it's gonna be Yeah, we can't have this turn into

439
00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:05,920
a Bradley Beal situation where you can kind of hold

440
00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:07,839
the whole organization hosts the cha way.

441
00:21:08,079 --> 00:21:10,920
Speaker 1: Do you think that we could see teams also start

442
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,640
to I don't even I wouldn't call this a criticism.

443
00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:16,119
I think it's just the way the system works. Teams

444
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,000
should squeeze their own free agents more when it doesn't

445
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:22,240
seem like there's a market and I restricted free agencies.

446
00:21:22,279 --> 00:21:24,680
The example I keep going back to because I'm pretty

447
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:27,400
sure the last offer sheet from a rival team was

448
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:30,160
when the Jazz gave Paul Reid one in the summer

449
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:33,039
of twenty twenty three. It's like, we don't see these offers,

450
00:21:33,079 --> 00:21:34,799
like teams don't want to tie up I guess money

451
00:21:34,799 --> 00:21:37,880
and players they're probably not gonna get and yet despite

452
00:21:38,039 --> 00:21:41,279
what is a clear lack of market elsewhere, we see

453
00:21:41,319 --> 00:21:43,599
like the Obie cop top In contract not one of

454
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:45,640
the worst deals in the league, but like who was

455
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,400
giving him four and sixty or even a manual.

456
00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:50,200
Speaker 2: Quickly in Toronto, who I think is a really good player.

457
00:21:50,599 --> 00:21:52,720
Speaker 1: Do you think that we're gonna start to see teams

458
00:21:52,759 --> 00:21:55,359
like kind of squeeze there, like when you're looking Quentin

459
00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:57,839
Grimes in Philly or maybe cam Thomas and Brooklyn this year,

460
00:21:57,880 --> 00:21:59,720
or do you think there's always gonna be that level

461
00:21:59,759 --> 00:22:03,000
of one? Maybe teams view this as we always need

462
00:22:03,079 --> 00:22:05,960
tradable mid end salary, which fine, but when you're going

463
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,079
four and five years like that's where I'm like, okay,

464
00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:10,920
then what are we doing here? Are there always gonna

465
00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:12,839
be that element of teams just paying their own players

466
00:22:12,839 --> 00:22:14,319
even though they don't have a ton of leverage, or

467
00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:17,440
could you see teams trying to exert that leverage more

468
00:22:17,559 --> 00:22:18,240
moving forward?

469
00:22:19,079 --> 00:22:23,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think there's levels to it. I think, like

470
00:22:23,599 --> 00:22:26,640
you mentioned the fun max idea, those are still going

471
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:30,960
to happen because those are more about it's of course,

472
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:32,720
it's about the money. I don't want to pretend that

473
00:22:32,799 --> 00:22:35,759
these hundreds of millions of dollars contracts aren't about the money,

474
00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:38,759
but a lot of that is also about respect of

475
00:22:39,079 --> 00:22:41,799
I am a MAX guy, and I think teams are

476
00:22:41,799 --> 00:22:43,839
going to be more willing to say, yeah, you're a

477
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:46,680
MAX guy. At twenty five percent or thirty percent, we

478
00:22:46,759 --> 00:22:47,279
can live.

479
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:48,599
Speaker 2: With that, fine, okay.

480
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:51,319
Speaker 3: I think what we're going to see is it's gonna

481
00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:54,759
be that continuous squeezing of I don't want to say

482
00:22:54,799 --> 00:22:58,680
the middle class, but it's like that like upper middle class,

483
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:01,200
if you will, where it's gonna be like the Obi

484
00:23:01,279 --> 00:23:04,680
Toppins of the world, where it'll be, yeah, fifteen million

485
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:07,640
for him, a bit rich. And I think what teams

486
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:09,799
are gonna do is the really smart teams are gonna

487
00:23:09,799 --> 00:23:13,160
sit down with their players. They're gonna have a conversation where, hey,

488
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,200
if we give all of you three to five million

489
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,039
more than what we probably should, we will not be

490
00:23:19,079 --> 00:23:22,599
able to go get player seven, player eight on our

491
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:25,960
roster because we're gonna be so capped out we up

492
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:29,240
against the aprons. It's gonna be a problem. I think

493
00:23:29,319 --> 00:23:32,640
what what will also happen, which is unfortunate, it is

494
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,680
they're really cheap ownership groups are gonna use that same strategy,

495
00:23:37,039 --> 00:23:39,240
but then they're never they never have the intention of

496
00:23:39,279 --> 00:23:42,839
getting player seven and eight right. It'll just be we

497
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:44,920
just don't want to pay you right. It's just gonna

498
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:47,759
be where we want to live right at the right

499
00:23:47,759 --> 00:23:50,680
at the cap, because everybody basically gets to the cap

500
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:52,519
in the end, but we want to live right at

501
00:23:52,559 --> 00:23:54,160
the cap. We don't want to be very far over

502
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,519
it where we're not gonna come in under it. We

503
00:23:56,559 --> 00:23:58,720
want to be right there. And that's where I they

504
00:23:58,839 --> 00:24:01,359
think you'll see some of that happen. But I do

505
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:05,920
think teams are going to be more cautious with the

506
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:10,920
longer term, slightly bigger than they should be contracts where

507
00:24:11,039 --> 00:24:15,000
what I think will be really smart businesses. Like I

508
00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:17,559
used Grant Williams as an example for this a couple

509
00:24:17,599 --> 00:24:19,200
of years ago when he was a free agent with

510
00:24:19,279 --> 00:24:22,160
the Celtics. I would not have had a problem if

511
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:24,319
they gave him like a two year deal where they

512
00:24:24,319 --> 00:24:29,160
gave him like even eighteen million a year, because the

513
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,319
idea would have been, now that's eighteen million a tradable

514
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,759
salary that we're gonna need because we don't have tradable

515
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:40,240
salary elsewhere. On the roster without touching a core rotation guy.

516
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:43,240
So I think that's where you could see teams still

517
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:45,319
play some of those games, but you're gonna have to

518
00:24:45,319 --> 00:24:48,480
play him on very short term contracts where you feel

519
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,319
really good about, all right, we can still control this

520
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:55,599
and move this guy, versus the idea of yeah, let's

521
00:24:55,599 --> 00:24:58,160
just give out four year, twenty million dollar a year

522
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,440
contracts to everybody just because it's you know, not really

523
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:04,799
gonna kill us. It's rare. Yeah, some of the max

524
00:25:04,839 --> 00:25:07,960
deals that turn sour kill you. But it's more when

525
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,039
you are piled up on these mid range ones and

526
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:12,920
it sounds good to have three or four of them

527
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,880
for trade purposes until you actually have to trade them,

528
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:19,079
and then it's like, well, nobody wants them, and that's

529
00:25:19,079 --> 00:25:19,960
where you gets stuck.

530
00:25:21,279 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 1: Do you think that there could be I know, you

531
00:25:23,039 --> 00:25:25,000
mentioned like mostly it'll be the for lack of a

532
00:25:25,039 --> 00:25:27,440
better phrasing, like the middle class type of players that

533
00:25:27,519 --> 00:25:30,240
you could see squeezes happening. And I don't think that

534
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,559
actual MAX stars will necessarily be squeezed. But do you

535
00:25:33,599 --> 00:25:36,599
see do you see a scenario which we could see

536
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,799
more situations play out where teams are making the call

537
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:42,720
to move on from these guys maybe earlier than you

538
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,559
would expect. Luca is like the mother of all anomalies.

539
00:25:45,559 --> 00:25:48,680
But the fact that the Mavericks were a purpotly that

540
00:25:48,839 --> 00:25:51,759
concern about paying him, it did open my eyes to that.

541
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:54,240
And we also have kind of seen it with you know,

542
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,559
James Harden just not having like a market available outside

543
00:25:57,559 --> 00:26:00,599
Feeling and he's making sub max now and even George

544
00:26:00,799 --> 00:26:03,799
he found Max money in Philly, but like La not

545
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:05,880
really willing to go to that level for him where

546
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,680
I think, you know, a few years ago, like put

547
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:12,000
Paul George, same age, same injury history in that market. No,

548
00:26:12,079 --> 00:26:13,720
like that's probably not as hard of a decision. Do

549
00:26:13,759 --> 00:26:16,920
you think that this like new CBA's influenced that at

550
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,000
all or is this just like a product of teams?

551
00:26:19,279 --> 00:26:19,440
Speaker 2: You know?

552
00:26:19,599 --> 00:26:21,480
Speaker 1: I guess the Aging Stars is one thing where it's

553
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,000
like we don't want to necessarily review them as reflexive

554
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:27,920
Max contract guys. But even the regardless of where you

555
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,119
land on well who initiated stuff with the Aaron Fox

556
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,640
and Sacramento that at least felt more like Sacramento driven

557
00:26:33,839 --> 00:26:35,039
than it normally.

558
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:35,759
Speaker 2: Would have been.

559
00:26:35,839 --> 00:26:38,359
Speaker 1: So like, could that be a potential just effect of

560
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:40,240
how the CBA is set up right now.

561
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:45,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think let's take Luca and put him way

562
00:26:45,559 --> 00:26:48,000
over here off screen because that's its own thing, right,

563
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:48,759
Like that was.

564
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,400
Speaker 1: And they didn't get like like if you're talking about

565
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:54,559
paying ad so like, yeah, that's a bad example too,

566
00:26:54,559 --> 00:26:56,680
where it's like they didn't necessarily get cheaper that. So

567
00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:59,319
it just it was weird to see someone at his age,

568
00:26:59,319 --> 00:27:01,960
even if you were learned about his stamina, you're worried

569
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,720
about paying him money when even if the bar for

570
00:27:04,799 --> 00:27:08,920
max contracts is going to be higher moving forward, Luca

571
00:27:09,079 --> 00:27:11,160
is like if you're not gonna pay Luca, like, who's

572
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,440
the NBA player You're okay paying.

573
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:14,720
Speaker 3: One hundred percent?

574
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:15,119
Speaker 2: Yeah.

575
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,880
Speaker 3: I So just if we sit that one all the

576
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:22,160
way off to its own whatever reasons they did that,

577
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,079
we I'm sure you've had the discussion one hundred times

578
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:28,400
like I have. There's nothing really more to be said there.

579
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,680
Either you're on board and you're Nico Harrison or you're

580
00:27:31,799 --> 00:27:35,559
everyone else on the planet and you disagree. But anyway,

581
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:38,799
I think what you're gonna see, Paul George being a

582
00:27:38,839 --> 00:27:41,680
really good example, I think you're gonna see teams really

583
00:27:41,759 --> 00:27:45,480
draw a line in the sand with no bolder player.

584
00:27:45,799 --> 00:27:48,920
We're not gonna automax you anymore. That's not gonna be

585
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,960
a thing like we We are gonna really say if

586
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:56,440
there's injury history or you're bumping into the over thirty

587
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:58,920
eight rule like by the end of your contract or whatever,

588
00:27:59,599 --> 00:28:01,839
we're not gonna do it like. We're gonna be very

589
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,720
firm and staunch with this. Will some guys get there,

590
00:28:05,759 --> 00:28:08,680
of course they will, like Lebron probably will be on

591
00:28:08,799 --> 00:28:10,920
a MAX near MAX for the rest of his career

592
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,000
if he wants to be, and and I know he

593
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,559
left some money on the table, but that was his decision.

594
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:20,160
I think where we're gonna it's going to be interesting

595
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:24,559
to see is the next level guy who comes in,

596
00:28:24,799 --> 00:28:29,079
who is a they're going into that thirty five max,

597
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:33,039
they're a borderline all star. Maybe they make it, maybe

598
00:28:33,079 --> 00:28:38,200
they don't do. Teams hold firm there and say it's

599
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:42,000
either not gonna be the max or we will will

600
00:28:42,039 --> 00:28:44,160
either give you years or we'll give you dollars, but

601
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,720
you're not getting both. I think Rudy Gobert was a

602
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:50,359
little instructive with that with the Timberwolves, where was we'll

603
00:28:50,359 --> 00:28:52,440
give you the years, but we're not gonna give you

604
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,319
all the money, like you're gonna have to take less money.

605
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,119
And that's probably how it should work, where I think

606
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:02,759
there is a sense of yeah, once the guy's passed

607
00:29:02,799 --> 00:29:06,680
that ten years of service. There's some guys are fine

608
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:08,359
right because they're ten years of service and they're not

609
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,799
even thirty years old yet, so it's like, yeah, they're thirty,

610
00:29:11,839 --> 00:29:14,119
they're gonna be fine for another four or five years.

611
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,440
But it's when it's like turning into contract number four

612
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:21,039
or contract number five for a guy. They don't all

613
00:29:21,079 --> 00:29:24,119
need to be four years five years in length, knowing

614
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,920
totally with your year's left plus extension or whatever. Like

615
00:29:28,039 --> 00:29:31,279
Damian Lillard. I think now if this was coming around

616
00:29:31,319 --> 00:29:35,440
in today's world, I think I think the Bucks, the Trailblazers,

617
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:38,960
whoever was had his rights at the time, would pause

618
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,720
and say, do we really need to go full length

619
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:45,519
max on this or can we hold back a little bit.

620
00:29:45,799 --> 00:29:48,119
And again, I think part of that conversation is going

621
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:52,880
to be, Hey, when you're thirty six years old, is

622
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,720
it really that important to you to be making seventy

623
00:29:55,759 --> 00:29:58,839
million a year or would you rather have us use

624
00:29:58,839 --> 00:30:00,440
some of that money to help you try to win,

625
00:30:00,799 --> 00:30:03,160
because it's gonna be really hard to do both. And

626
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:05,240
that's where I think think that'll be the give and

627
00:30:05,279 --> 00:30:06,960
take will be with those players.

628
00:30:07,119 --> 00:30:08,799
Speaker 1: I didn't include this in the outline I sent you,

629
00:30:08,839 --> 00:30:11,480
But is there what would be the pathway to free

630
00:30:11,519 --> 00:30:13,039
agency becoming cool again?

631
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:14,839
Speaker 2: Or does it really still not exist.

632
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 1: I've seen some people say that because of the aprons

633
00:30:17,519 --> 00:30:20,440
that will somehow bring back the appeal and mestique of

634
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,039
free agency, But I'm just like, maybe we're just too

635
00:30:23,079 --> 00:30:25,359
far removes from like the Halcyondes a free agency for

636
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:27,480
me to envision it. But I don't see how the

637
00:30:27,559 --> 00:30:30,799
current setup necessarily invites. You know, for certain players like

638
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,599
Kobe White, the one hundred and forty percent extension rules

639
00:30:33,599 --> 00:30:36,559
not enough and Ogananobe this pass offseason, but what did

640
00:30:36,599 --> 00:30:38,359
he do? He resigned with the team that he was

641
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,079
on right away. So is there a path to like

642
00:30:41,119 --> 00:30:42,759
free agency becoming cool again?

643
00:30:43,759 --> 00:30:46,519
Speaker 3: There is? I think all this stuff goes in cycles.

644
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:50,720
I think what you'll see is when they continued cap growth,

645
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:54,519
and if teams are a little more conservative, you'll see

646
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:59,640
probably twenty six, maybe twenty seven, definitely by twenty twenty eight,

647
00:31:00,359 --> 00:31:02,960
you're gonna see seven eight teams hit the summer with

648
00:31:03,039 --> 00:31:06,279
cap space. When that happens, that's when you'll see free

649
00:31:06,279 --> 00:31:09,720
agents will say, Okay, I'll time it up to maybe

650
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:12,200
be a free agent there because like last year is

651
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,960
like Darin am I going to Philly? Like okay, Like

652
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:19,119
if I'm not Paul Georgian going to Philly, then what

653
00:31:19,319 --> 00:31:21,319
why do I need to you know, why shouldn't I

654
00:31:21,359 --> 00:31:25,240
extend this summer? It's the Nets, and the Nets are

655
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:27,920
clearly in a rebuild. They're not gonna pull off the

656
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:31,119
Katie Kyrie summer again. So I think a lot of

657
00:31:31,119 --> 00:31:34,880
guys are like, yeah, like I'd rather extend. And that's

658
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:37,839
where I think what you'll see is it's the Kobe

659
00:31:37,839 --> 00:31:40,079
Whites of the world. Those are the guys who are

660
00:31:40,079 --> 00:31:43,279
more likely to hit free agency because what will happen

661
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:47,640
is the Max guys, the Jason Tatums, the Lucas, those guys,

662
00:31:47,799 --> 00:31:51,759
they're always gonna take the Max extension until somebody doesn't,

663
00:31:52,039 --> 00:31:53,759
which is then when I always say, if you're a

664
00:31:53,759 --> 00:31:57,000
fan of that team, that's the time to you know,

665
00:31:57,079 --> 00:31:59,319
throw up the red warning lights and everything else and

666
00:31:59,359 --> 00:32:01,720
probably trade the guy because you're probably in a spot

667
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:04,880
where they don't want to be there anymore. Because no

668
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,759
one turns down that max extension, it just doesn't happen.

669
00:32:08,279 --> 00:32:11,359
So I think that's where you're gonna see, you know,

670
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:13,279
some stuff like that, where it'll be a little bit

671
00:32:13,359 --> 00:32:16,200
more of it'll come back around in cycles. And then

672
00:32:16,519 --> 00:32:19,880
I think what will also happen is you're gonna see

673
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:26,000
teams will probably get even more aggressive with the let's

674
00:32:26,039 --> 00:32:28,240
just call it what it is, the tampering part of it,

675
00:32:28,279 --> 00:32:30,279
where it is, you know, a couple of years out,

676
00:32:30,319 --> 00:32:32,599
it'll be, hey, we know this guy really wants to

677
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,599
play here. How do we start lining things up and

678
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:39,559
where the cap is going As if you start dropping

679
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:44,519
contracts off, you're not talking creating twenty thirty million in space.

680
00:32:45,279 --> 00:32:47,640
CAP's going to be pushing two hundred million pretty soon.

681
00:32:48,119 --> 00:32:50,640
So where the cap starts pushing that much, you're gonna

682
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:54,279
see contracts dropping off, and then it'll be hey, we're

683
00:32:54,319 --> 00:32:57,160
no longer capped out. We have one hundred and fifty

684
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:01,039
million dollars in cap space to go spend. Now, a

685
00:33:01,079 --> 00:33:04,440
max contract by that point will be seventy million dollars,

686
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,519
and that'll be a slightly different thing because you'll be

687
00:33:07,559 --> 00:33:09,119
in a spot where it'll be alright, well we can

688
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:13,359
get one or two guys and that that's what That's

689
00:33:13,359 --> 00:33:15,400
where one of the things we've done on spot track,

690
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,480
all of our salary pages have percent of cap next

691
00:33:18,519 --> 00:33:21,279
to the salary number because we want people to think

692
00:33:21,319 --> 00:33:25,200
in those terms, right, because I say that, you know,

693
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:27,319
guys are gonna be making seventy million dollars on a

694
00:33:27,359 --> 00:33:29,400
max steel and people are like, this is crazy, this

695
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:32,880
is nuts, like same percent of the cap that it was,

696
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:37,319
you know, ten years ago. It's just everything's grown. It's

697
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:40,440
just as everything grows, it becomes a much bigger number.

698
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:42,759
But that'll be be where I think you will see

699
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:44,680
kind of free agency come back into play.

700
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 1: I was wondering if it would almost have the opposite effect,

701
00:33:47,559 --> 00:33:49,400
whereas teams have cap space and if you have more

702
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:51,799
of a blank slate, maybe it doesn't matter. But like

703
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:54,920
the Jared Jackson Junior is a potential example. Maybe a

704
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,359
bad example because he's probably gonna make all MBA, but like,

705
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:00,400
could we see an increase in renegotiating ext dens to

706
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:03,160
where you're giving players bumps you don't have to in

707
00:34:03,279 --> 00:34:07,119
exchange for like in those out years, you're saving a

708
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:09,480
few million dollars or whatever, like sort of what we

709
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:11,679
saw with Larry market In whereas they gave him a

710
00:34:11,679 --> 00:34:13,360
bunch of money now, which seems like they were buying

711
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:15,840
his silence basically for the for the tank and it's

712
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:18,239
but they didn't have to give him like the actual

713
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,039
max money that that they were going to.

714
00:34:21,159 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 2: I guess we're just still too young.

715
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:24,559
Speaker 1: And again, Jaron Jackson, you would only be the second

716
00:34:24,599 --> 00:34:26,280
example of that happening recently.

717
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:29,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, good example though, Miles Turner h did did kind

718
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:31,519
of what you were saying when the Pacers a few

719
00:34:31,559 --> 00:34:34,800
years ago did the renegotiation and an extension where they

720
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:36,440
gave him a whole bunch of money in that first

721
00:34:36,519 --> 00:34:39,960
year and then the next two years were really probably

722
00:34:40,039 --> 00:34:42,920
a little undermarket or for what he is as a player,

723
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:45,280
but that's because he got it almost as a quote

724
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:49,519
unquote bonus in that first year. The problem is getting

725
00:34:49,559 --> 00:34:52,239
to those positions to have all that cap space to

726
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:54,639
be able to do that that That can be a

727
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:57,159
very challenging thing to be able to pull off. So

728
00:34:57,199 --> 00:35:01,199
I think teams will much prefer the standard extent. But yeah,

729
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:05,000
I say this all the time. Sounds awesome when you

730
00:35:05,039 --> 00:35:07,400
get the guy on a contract where you're like, man,

731
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:10,360
that's a really good number for him. Jared Jackson Jr.

732
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:14,000
You mentioned Kobe White earlier in the show. Really great

733
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:17,599
contracts until it's time for the next one, and it

734
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:20,280
is we can't really extend them off this number. They're

735
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:23,119
gonna hit free agency. Then that's when you're really hoping,

736
00:35:23,159 --> 00:35:25,639
ir Well, let's hope the bird rights trump ball, we

737
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:27,960
can get him a free agency and all those things.

738
00:35:28,199 --> 00:35:31,079
But you just enter entering a bit of unknown that

739
00:35:31,159 --> 00:35:34,159
you'd rather have as a controllable there versus variable that

740
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:36,199
that you you don't really know how it will go

741
00:35:36,639 --> 00:35:40,199
and if it'll go your way. But you'll see renegotiation

742
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:42,920
and extension come up. It's funny. They kind of come

743
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,519
in waves. Well, we'll have like four or five of them,

744
00:35:45,639 --> 00:35:47,760
then we won't have any for a number of years.

745
00:35:48,119 --> 00:35:50,559
Then we're like four or five. But again that's cap

746
00:35:50,559 --> 00:35:53,480
space comes in waves as well, where it'll be we

747
00:35:53,519 --> 00:35:55,679
capped out. We stayed capped out for about a four

748
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:58,159
or five year window. Now we have some cap space,

749
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:01,280
let's let's do some stuff. This is kind of coincidentally

750
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:03,800
where I think and I don't know if this on

751
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:06,159
your list, so APO, just if I'm stepping on it.

752
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:10,320
But the draft is going to become even more important

753
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:14,039
for teams because one you get them on those rookie

754
00:36:14,079 --> 00:36:18,360
scale deals which are almost automatically team friendly, and if

755
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:20,800
you can nail draft picks, it just gives you a

756
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:23,880
four year window where it's like you're kind of playing

757
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,199
almost with free money a little bit there. Like people

758
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:30,480
know nothing is better than a rookie quarterback in the

759
00:36:30,559 --> 00:36:34,079
NFL because they make like nothing and it's the most

760
00:36:34,079 --> 00:36:37,320
important position on the field. Like San Antonio Spurs, they

761
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:41,199
still have two more years of Wembin Yama making pigments

762
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:43,719
compared to what he should be making, and that just

763
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:45,719
makes everything that much easier. But you have to take

764
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:47,159
advantage when you have those guys.

765
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:49,719
Speaker 2: That's yeah, the draft stuff for sure. And I was

766
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:50,480
actually surprised.

767
00:36:50,519 --> 00:36:53,719
Speaker 1: We did a Rule change podcast where we responded to

768
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,960
subscribers propose all these rules submissions, and I was actually

769
00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:00,239
surprised at how many people want to abolish the draft

770
00:37:00,559 --> 00:37:03,440
as part of that, because I don't I understand like

771
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:06,559
in theory giving players freedom of choice, it's like that

772
00:37:06,599 --> 00:37:09,119
would be cool and is important, and it's like, yes,

773
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:11,800
us in what we do, we do have freedom of choice,

774
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:14,039
of course, it's I just feel like it's different when

775
00:37:14,039 --> 00:37:16,960
you're talking about millions of dollars versus the every person.

776
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:19,360
Speaker 2: But like, where do you land on that?

777
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:21,199
Speaker 1: Like, I just feel like the draft is way too

778
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:26,000
important to like giving even a relatively fair playing field

779
00:37:26,079 --> 00:37:27,960
like for teams to build from the ground up. That

780
00:37:28,079 --> 00:37:30,199
I can't even And first of all, it's its own

781
00:37:31,159 --> 00:37:34,000
industry now, right like the NBA Draft, it's covered, the

782
00:37:34,079 --> 00:37:36,400
NBA pumps it up. I just I'm still surprised, like

783
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:38,280
I said, how many people would be in favor of

784
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:42,039
like making it like a free agency driven like for rookies,

785
00:37:42,079 --> 00:37:44,920
because I feel like that'd be from a competitive landscape,

786
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:46,320
I feel like it would be a disaster.

787
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:49,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is where I always kind of go back

788
00:37:49,639 --> 00:37:55,519
to the like idea of don't compare our real lives

789
00:37:55,599 --> 00:37:59,480
to the lives of professional sports and athletes, because people

790
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,679
will say things like, oh, load management is so ridiculous.

791
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:04,599
Can you imagine if I told my boss I just

792
00:38:05,119 --> 00:38:06,719
wasn't going to come in today and wasn't going to

793
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,800
come to work, And I'm like, in my first real

794
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:13,599
answer somebody worked in corporate America for twenty plus years

795
00:38:14,119 --> 00:38:16,440
is usually you never took a sick day just to

796
00:38:16,679 --> 00:38:19,599
hang out, Like, come on, of course you did, right,

797
00:38:19,639 --> 00:38:21,079
We all do that, was you?

798
00:38:21,079 --> 00:38:23,880
Speaker 2: You want to know if you're listening, I've never once

799
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:24,280
done that.

800
00:38:25,599 --> 00:38:28,679
Speaker 3: Well I don't do that anymore, but there's I do now.

801
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:31,199
But but like you know, it's like, come on now,

802
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:35,480
like we've all done that. So this is where when

803
00:38:35,519 --> 00:38:38,079
they're like, could you imagine if we, you know, went

804
00:38:38,159 --> 00:38:41,559
to you know, all right college graduates. Happening now all

805
00:38:41,559 --> 00:38:45,480
the top engineering companies draft all the top engineers instead

806
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,159
of just paying them, you know, more than the next place.

807
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:51,800
And I'm like, yeah, but the top engineering companies are

808
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:54,719
trying to put each other out of business. NBA teams

809
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:58,400
are trying to beat each other. But the Lakers need

810
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:03,159
the Clippers, they need the Jazz, right otherwise there's no league.

811
00:39:03,679 --> 00:39:07,000
And that's where I worry is you start doing stuff

812
00:39:07,039 --> 00:39:09,760
like get rid of the draft. Well, everybody's just gonna

813
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:12,440
sign with New York and LA and one of those teams,

814
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:16,719
because why not, Like you're I can make a ton

815
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:19,880
more in endorsements if I'm in one of those markets

816
00:39:20,199 --> 00:39:22,400
now don't need to really worry about it. So of

817
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:24,559
course I'm gonna go there and take a whole bunch

818
00:39:24,599 --> 00:39:27,480
of money that way, because yeah, it's still a salary

819
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:30,000
cap league, and I can't make you know, just free

820
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:33,360
you know, money off of whatever. But I'll make it

821
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:35,719
up off the court. Now that's where. Then then what

822
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,840
happens to Orlando and Indiana and all those teams? Like

823
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:39,440
where do they go?

824
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:42,320
Speaker 1: Is there anything that you think is flying under the

825
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:44,960
radar about the new CBA climber or that you wish

826
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:46,719
that when you're going on in these shows someone would

827
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:48,880
ask you about that's not receiving enough attention.

828
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:54,840
Speaker 3: I can I flip the question?

829
00:39:55,519 --> 00:40:00,559
Speaker 4: Yeah, I like, I really hope the trade deadline taught

830
00:40:00,599 --> 00:40:04,719
us like it's okay, Like teams are really smart, They're

831
00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:06,079
gonna find ways to make moves.

832
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:08,880
Speaker 3: I'm still hearing people be like, well, you know, there's

833
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,159
not gonna be really a whole lot that happens this summer.

834
00:40:11,519 --> 00:40:14,679
It's like you just saw like a whole crapload of

835
00:40:14,679 --> 00:40:17,800
stuff happened. And I go back to I had the

836
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:22,760
real pleasure to be a judge in Arizona State University

837
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:26,800
Law School, does a mock trade deadline competition where they

838
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:28,840
bring in all these law students and they have to

839
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:31,519
follow the real trade rules and all that stuff. In

840
00:40:31,559 --> 00:40:34,079
a six hour window, they made like forty three trades

841
00:40:34,519 --> 00:40:38,000
involving all thirty teams. Some of them none of them

842
00:40:38,039 --> 00:40:41,280
were like crazy, Like like, let me tell you this,

843
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:44,360
There wasn't a Luca trade in there, so, like truth

844
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:47,599
is always stranger than fiction. But like I was like, yeah,

845
00:40:47,639 --> 00:40:50,480
if a bunch of college kids who are doing this

846
00:40:51,159 --> 00:40:53,519
kind of for fun but also to build a resume

847
00:40:53,599 --> 00:40:56,119
and show off for NBA people, because there was a

848
00:40:56,119 --> 00:41:00,679
ton of NBA executives there, like there, if they can

849
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:02,760
pull it off, NBA teams can pull it off. So

850
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:05,199
that's where I'll flip the question and say something I

851
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:07,480
would like to hear less of is like, oh, it's

852
00:41:07,519 --> 00:41:11,039
so restrictive and no one can do anything. We saw

853
00:41:11,119 --> 00:41:13,519
all kinds of crazy stuff happen. We're gonna see it

854
00:41:13,519 --> 00:41:16,320
again this summer. Teams just have to get really creative

855
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:19,000
and it's gonna be more three and four multi team

856
00:41:19,039 --> 00:41:21,599
trades and all kinds of stuff. The nets, I mean,

857
00:41:21,639 --> 00:41:24,159
Sean Marks if he doesn't want to play the restricted

858
00:41:24,199 --> 00:41:26,639
free agent offer sheet game. He's got to be licking

859
00:41:26,679 --> 00:41:29,559
his chop saying, hey, got fifty million in cap space,

860
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:33,119
like third team men, third team men, like who needs help?

861
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:35,199
You know, who needs me to eat a deal? Right?

862
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:37,159
Because it's that's where he should be and he should

863
00:41:37,159 --> 00:41:39,920
be collecting, you know, a ton of assets for doing

864
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:43,159
that as it goes along. And then I would say

865
00:41:44,079 --> 00:41:46,679
one thing that is going maybe a little bit under

866
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:51,800
the radar is I am curious to see where the

867
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:54,599
frozen draft picks and draft picks being moved to the

868
00:41:54,679 --> 00:41:58,159
back of the round, how that's going to impact teams,

869
00:41:58,599 --> 00:42:02,400
especially if it is we're close to going over the

870
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:05,800
second apron and we could acquire player RECs who would

871
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:07,639
really probably put us over the top to be in

872
00:42:07,679 --> 00:42:10,880
a contender. But is that gonna screw us several years

873
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:12,519
from now? Where are we gonna go with that? And

874
00:42:12,519 --> 00:42:15,320
that's where I think that's something that I think we

875
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:17,639
need to pay a little bit more attention to because

876
00:42:17,679 --> 00:42:20,639
that's one of the phased in rules that wasn't around

877
00:42:20,639 --> 00:42:22,480
for the first couple of years in the new CBA.

878
00:42:23,079 --> 00:42:25,280
It's now all coming into play now. So that's something

879
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:27,360
I'm very much curious to see how that plays out.

880
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:32,280
Speaker 1: Could that potentially have the effect of teams extending their

881
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:34,360
window because if they know that, like they don't have

882
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:37,000
that out down the line, that it's gonna be number three,

883
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:38,599
so it's not even just frozen. They can't move, it's

884
00:42:38,599 --> 00:42:40,599
gonna be number thirty. That's we might as well just

885
00:42:40,679 --> 00:42:42,360
we're gonna pay and if this team is still good,

886
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:44,639
like we'll deal with that. And I guess the other

887
00:42:44,679 --> 00:42:47,360
thing is I have not given this an iota of

888
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:50,440
thought before you just mentioned that. Can you only have

889
00:42:50,519 --> 00:42:53,199
one draft pick like frozen and moved at a time

890
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:53,480
like this?

891
00:42:53,559 --> 00:42:54,360
Speaker 2: Is is it cyclical?

892
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:56,559
Speaker 1: Where it's like if you're still in there now, your

893
00:42:56,639 --> 00:42:59,159
twenty thirty three first round pick is also frozen and

894
00:42:59,199 --> 00:43:03,559
that's in danger and you could have multiple picks like wow, okay,

895
00:43:03,639 --> 00:43:04,199
that's interesting.

896
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:06,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah it is that ladder way. Yeah where And

897
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:09,480
I'm just nodding like an idiot because that's really good radio.

898
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:12,320
Speaker 2: But yeah, it will appreciate it.

899
00:43:12,519 --> 00:43:17,039
Speaker 3: Yeah, So but yeah, absolutely that is where it is. Yeah,

900
00:43:17,119 --> 00:43:20,320
you could continue it just rolls, you know, seven years out,

901
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:22,519
seven years out, seven years out, it just keeps rolling

902
00:43:22,559 --> 00:43:25,039
over And then there are mechanisms where if you get

903
00:43:25,079 --> 00:43:28,559
out from underneath, it becomes unfrozen and you can do things.

904
00:43:28,599 --> 00:43:32,079
Because the idea is, who's probably really gonna still be

905
00:43:32,639 --> 00:43:35,320
your second apron team in year one? Are you really

906
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:38,880
probably gonna be one in year five? Probably not? And

907
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:41,880
that's where I think they're hopeful that could be punitive

908
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:44,960
enough to say, get yourself out of there so you

909
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:47,800
can free that up and do things. But I think

910
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:50,000
to your point, I do think you are going to

911
00:43:50,079 --> 00:43:54,000
see teams where if you feel like, again, I'm gonna

912
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:56,559
make it about the Celtics, but if you feel like, hey,

913
00:43:56,599 --> 00:43:59,480
Tatum and Brown and almost whoever else we throw around them,

914
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:02,920
We'll just keep rolling over the salary slots and the

915
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:08,199
new guys. We keep this going. You you may see

916
00:44:08,199 --> 00:44:11,039
them push that where it's like, all right, you know what,

917
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:15,320
we're probably gonna pick twenty eighth anyway, who cares if

918
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:17,719
it's thirtieth, what difference does make. We're not looking to

919
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:20,639
trade that pick, so it doesn't matter anyway. So that's

920
00:44:20,679 --> 00:44:22,559
where where I do think you will see a little

921
00:44:22,559 --> 00:44:23,960
bit of that come into play as well.

922
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:27,320
Speaker 1: All right, are you ready to get into some teams

923
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:29,920
that will define the offseason? Our little draft year I

924
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:32,480
love it as the guest you get to go first.

925
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:34,679
Who's the who's the first team you're looking at?

926
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:38,440
Speaker 3: All, Right, I'm gonna do the very easy one off

927
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:43,119
the board, Phoenix Suns, because Kevin Durant's gonna get traded

928
00:44:43,559 --> 00:44:48,159
and whatever happens there, that's gonna be seismic. Right, it's KD.

929
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:52,519
I realize it's this version of KD, but he's still KD.

930
00:44:52,559 --> 00:44:55,480
He's still awesome. That's gonna set up a lot further

931
00:44:55,559 --> 00:44:56,400
rest of the league.

932
00:44:57,679 --> 00:45:00,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that's like there, it's I'm trying to

933
00:45:00,519 --> 00:45:03,400
think that whole lead up to the trade deadline where

934
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:05,559
they were shopping him without telling him, and then it

935
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:08,719
just you knew it was real when Brian Windhors comes

936
00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:10,960
out in advance of something rather than after the fact

937
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:13,840
and says, yeah, he's gone. And I'm just like tryings

938
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:15,960
like we've gotten to a point where like it's so

939
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:17,920
faint to complete that it feels awkward, where like you

940
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:20,360
can always forecast when KD might be traded or leave,

941
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:22,719
but the fact that it's just a foregone conclusion, it's

942
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:25,320
it's giving like that final year of the Warriors vibes,

943
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:28,800
but even more inevitable. I'm so curious to see what

944
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:31,400
he fetches as just like we've seen their you know,

945
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:34,199
reported asking price. But just given his age, only a

946
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:36,119
year left on his contract, which I don't think matters

947
00:45:36,159 --> 00:45:37,840
too much because if you're getting him, he probably have

948
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:38,599
insight whether he.

949
00:45:38,559 --> 00:45:39,800
Speaker 2: Wants to stay.

950
00:45:40,199 --> 00:45:42,679
Speaker 1: But do you think that people will be surprised at

951
00:45:42,679 --> 00:45:45,119
how much he gets or surprised at how little he gets,

952
00:45:45,119 --> 00:45:47,039
Like which sort of end of the spectrum you skew towards.

953
00:45:47,119 --> 00:45:49,519
Speaker 3: Think it's probably gonna be the second one. I don't

954
00:45:49,559 --> 00:45:52,079
think they're going to return a massive value for him

955
00:45:52,119 --> 00:45:55,840
because I think what's gonna happen is the Suns are

956
00:45:56,760 --> 00:46:00,960
just did not take whatever you can get. But I

957
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:04,039
think it's gonna be we cannot run this back. This

958
00:46:04,079 --> 00:46:06,800
is not good for anybody involved, and it's gonna be

959
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:08,960
let's just move on so we could do whatever else

960
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:11,559
we're going to do. I'm moving forward, and I think

961
00:46:11,599 --> 00:46:13,719
it is gonna be a little bit less than what

962
00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:14,639
people really think.

963
00:46:15,199 --> 00:46:18,199
Speaker 1: Do you have like a favorite dark horse team for him?

964
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:20,079
Like if we know all that kind of the usual

965
00:46:20,159 --> 00:46:22,320
suspects there, but do you have like a team that's

966
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:25,360
not really mentioned or only tangentially mentioned, that would be

967
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:26,840
interesting to see him land off.

968
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:30,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would love to see, Like what if san

969
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:35,000
Antonio jumped in it was like, let's go, like we

970
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:38,440
were getting one be back, We've got de Aaron Fox,

971
00:46:38,519 --> 00:46:41,239
now we could get KD. Why can't we be a

972
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:44,039
top you know four team in the conference and it

973
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:46,480
just you know, push in and try to make something

974
00:46:46,519 --> 00:46:48,880
happen like that. That would be one bringing back to

975
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:51,599
Texas where we went to school, right and just kind

976
00:46:51,639 --> 00:46:55,559
of you know, bring him back there. I always wonder

977
00:46:55,599 --> 00:46:58,159
what it would be like if Washington said, all right,

978
00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:01,840
it's time. He's got so many years left, you know.

979
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:04,000
And I think if you're the Wizards, you almost look

980
00:47:04,039 --> 00:47:07,960
at it as let's do it because we're probably getting

981
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:09,719
off one of the contracts, so we don't really want

982
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:14,079
anyway like Middleton or Smart or something in that trade.

983
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:16,880
And if it doesn't work out, fine, will either retrade

984
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:20,199
him ourselves. Guess what, we're bad, We'll still be bad,

985
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:23,719
or we'll it'll work out great and we'll be you know,

986
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:26,960
back to be in the you know, playing Wizards again,

987
00:47:27,039 --> 00:47:29,079
and you know, but at least with some young guys

988
00:47:29,079 --> 00:47:31,079
around them. I always kind of wonder about that.

989
00:47:31,639 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 1: The Spurs are fun and they're one of the teams

990
00:47:33,519 --> 00:47:35,800
like another one would be maybe the Pelicans just because

991
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:37,760
they have Zion where it's no, they wouldn't do it.

992
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:40,239
But if you end up winning the draft lottery and

993
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:42,239
then so we have Cooper flag talent that can win

994
00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:44,480
immediately and so we're gonna go out and get KD

995
00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:46,519
would be like a fun scenario or see something like

996
00:47:46,599 --> 00:47:47,159
that happen.

997
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:49,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, that would be a blast. I wouldn't mind that.

998
00:47:49,519 --> 00:47:52,519
Speaker 1: I would like Memphis for him. Uh, their salary Mack

999
00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:55,039
gets weird. If you don't want to give up Desmond Baine,

1000
00:47:55,079 --> 00:47:57,480
like it probably becomes impossible at that point. But seeing

1001
00:47:57,559 --> 00:47:59,760
him play next to John Jaron Jackson Junior would be

1002
00:48:00,159 --> 00:48:01,719
loads of fun. And we've wanted them to have I

1003
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:04,519
know they have Joen Wells and Vince Williams, but we've

1004
00:48:04,559 --> 00:48:06,400
wanted them to have like a premier wing for what

1005
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:08,280
since Rudy Gay basically.

1006
00:48:08,199 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 3: Easily Yeah, for sure, somebody who can hit shots too.

1007
00:48:12,039 --> 00:48:12,199
Speaker 2: Right.

1008
00:48:12,599 --> 00:48:15,320
Speaker 1: My team is another obvious team, but I made a

1009
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:17,239
note it's the Brooklyn Nets. But I made a note

1010
00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:19,679
of this when they were going through one when they

1011
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:21,920
acted early on the trade market because they were too

1012
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:24,440
good and traded Denis Shrewder. But I made note in

1013
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:26,320
the back of my head that they didn't take back

1014
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:28,679
any long term money in that deal. Then they went

1015
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:30,800
around and did the same thing with Dorry and Phinney Smith.

1016
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:33,519
And so cap space can be used.

1017
00:48:33,360 --> 00:48:34,679
Speaker 2: For a bunch of different things, and I.

1018
00:48:34,679 --> 00:48:37,400
Speaker 1: Would be pretty surprised if they went and tried to

1019
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:40,079
spend it on free agents. But I also looked at

1020
00:48:40,079 --> 00:48:43,599
it and said, it feels like they are actively prioritizing

1021
00:48:44,079 --> 00:48:46,679
that cap space now, and so it makes it as

1022
00:48:46,719 --> 00:48:49,480
a third party team or I don't know where they

1023
00:48:49,519 --> 00:48:51,199
land in the lottery, but are they going to want

1024
00:48:51,199 --> 00:48:53,360
to make like if there's a star that they just

1025
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:55,760
think is young enough to go after. They're a team

1026
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:58,639
that just as a facilitator in these bigger moves or

1027
00:48:58,679 --> 00:49:00,519
maybe being able to make bigger moves moves in free

1028
00:49:00,519 --> 00:49:02,639
agency or on the trade market of their own. I

1029
00:49:02,679 --> 00:49:06,119
found it fascinating that they prioritized cap space to the

1030
00:49:06,159 --> 00:49:09,159
extent that they did while they were making mid season trades.

1031
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:15,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think what they realized is the market to

1032
00:49:16,039 --> 00:49:18,960
eat contracts at the trade deadline was not going to

1033
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:22,440
be that great to get great assets. But the market

1034
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:25,440
to eat contracts this summer to get assets is going

1035
00:49:25,519 --> 00:49:28,679
to be huge. Like, for example, if Minnesota wants in

1036
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:32,360
on KD, they're gonna have to trade Julish Randall. I'm

1037
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:35,719
sure maybe the Suns could do something there, but because

1038
00:49:35,719 --> 00:49:38,559
of the apron concerns from both teams, it's probably gonna

1039
00:49:38,599 --> 00:49:41,559
take a third team. I'm the Nets. Hey, hand up,

1040
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:44,679
We'll take Julis Randall's last year of his contract. You'll

1041
00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:48,159
just send over. You'll pick with it, or send you know,

1042
00:49:48,199 --> 00:49:50,880
one of your kids or something you know that that

1043
00:49:51,119 --> 00:49:53,039
makes it worth our while to do so. And I

1044
00:49:53,079 --> 00:49:55,400
think that's the kind of thing you're gonna see them do.

1045
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:58,719
I am very curious. CE two, do they play it

1046
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:02,079
all in the restricted free agent market again? Jonathan kaminga

1047
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:08,119
Josh Giddy like they trump Marcus is done now. If

1048
00:50:08,119 --> 00:50:10,360
you don't get them, let's not turn around and trade

1049
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:12,159
for all of them a year later like you did

1050
00:50:12,199 --> 00:50:14,840
last time around with Kyler Johnson and Alan crab and

1051
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:17,960
eventually kind of funny, I think they did get Auto

1052
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:21,599
Porter Junior, but way down the line, but like, yeah,

1053
00:50:21,679 --> 00:50:24,960
let's be I wouldn't be be surprised at all if

1054
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:26,880
it's there, because I think what you could do if

1055
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:29,280
here the Nats is, hey, we go get one of

1056
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:32,480
those guys with our draft pick, with a couple of

1057
00:50:32,519 --> 00:50:34,880
the younger players we have on the roster, a couple

1058
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:36,639
of the guys who are on a longer term deal.

1059
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:39,880
Why can't we be right back in the mix with

1060
00:50:40,599 --> 00:50:42,880
Orlando and Atlanta at the bottom of the conference. Why

1061
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:45,480
can't we take a Pistons like jump if we get

1062
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:47,639
the right guys. I'd rather see let's be patient and

1063
00:50:47,639 --> 00:50:49,920
build it out. But but I am very curious to

1064
00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:50,679
see how that goes.

1065
00:50:51,199 --> 00:50:53,199
Speaker 2: Who would be your next team?

1066
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:56,599
Speaker 3: This one's gonna sound a little strange, but it's more

1067
00:50:56,639 --> 00:51:01,039
of a what is the long term play here? And

1068
00:51:01,159 --> 00:51:04,800
it is the Oklahoma City Thunder? And why I say

1069
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:09,119
that is one. If they fall short, do they start

1070
00:51:09,119 --> 00:51:12,079
to make changes? Do you start to cash in and

1071
00:51:12,079 --> 00:51:14,079
some of the picks and some of the players and

1072
00:51:14,559 --> 00:51:17,599
do some of the stuff. Where it is, let's let's

1073
00:51:17,639 --> 00:51:20,760
go do do something right, Let's really try to beef up.

1074
00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:24,280
But let's say things go well, you know, they're in

1075
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:26,480
the conference finals or in the NBA finals, maybe they

1076
00:51:26,519 --> 00:51:30,039
won the title whatever, What do the extensions look like

1077
00:51:30,079 --> 00:51:33,000
for Cheded Holmgren and Jalen Williams. Are they just two

1078
00:51:33,679 --> 00:51:37,719
here's two Max steels and off we go and then

1079
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:41,079
knowing Sga is gonna get a Max steal coming up

1080
00:51:41,119 --> 00:51:44,239
pretty soon too, or is it going to be let's

1081
00:51:44,599 --> 00:51:47,760
let's try to like we talked about basically the show,

1082
00:51:48,159 --> 00:51:50,840
let's try to squeeze a little bit and not just

1083
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:53,239
hand out max steals. I'm very curious to see how

1084
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:53,800
they played this.

1085
00:51:54,679 --> 00:51:57,719
Speaker 1: Yeah that I'm with Chat specifically, I just wonder if

1086
00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:00,400
will there be any injury protection baked in which even

1087
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:04,159
except that, uh, there are a team that operates pretty conservatively,

1088
00:52:04,159 --> 00:52:06,320
so I feel like one of those extensions might have

1089
00:52:06,679 --> 00:52:09,599
either come in less than the max or may just

1090
00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:13,480
have like certain for chets specifically, like weird language in it.

1091
00:52:13,519 --> 00:52:14,960
Speaker 2: And I'm also wondering with them too.

1092
00:52:15,639 --> 00:52:17,719
Speaker 1: It feels like kind of a like a case of well,

1093
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:20,639
how much do the playoffs define what they offer them?

1094
00:52:20,639 --> 00:52:22,079
Where if they get to the playoffs and they lose

1095
00:52:22,079 --> 00:52:24,880
in the second round again and the offense struggles even

1096
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:27,519
with Shay on the court, Like, what does that mean

1097
00:52:27,559 --> 00:52:29,719
for the value of Jaylen Williams and chet Holmgren moving

1098
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:31,559
forward to them specifically.

1099
00:52:32,079 --> 00:52:35,079
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, Yeah, that's that's what I wonder. Do we

1100
00:52:35,119 --> 00:52:39,400
get to a point where it becomes, let's look, we

1101
00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:41,679
need to do something a little bit different, right, we

1102
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:44,519
need to add different kind of players or wherever it goes.

1103
00:52:44,599 --> 00:52:47,440
So very very curious, and we all know they've got still,

1104
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:50,840
you know, countless draft picks to go that they could

1105
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:52,840
put in the trades if they want to get involved

1106
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:54,199
in all kinds of stuff.

1107
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:56,400
Speaker 2: They end up with that Philly pick too, at number seven.

1108
00:52:56,679 --> 00:52:59,679
My god, right, yeah, my next team.

1109
00:53:00,119 --> 00:53:01,880
Speaker 1: It's a team I would never bet on, but it's

1110
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:04,079
also a team that I just can't quit. They have

1111
00:53:04,159 --> 00:53:06,480
one of the highest net ratings against top ten teams

1112
00:53:06,519 --> 00:53:10,079
in the league, the Minnesota Timberwolves. So they don't have

1113
00:53:10,159 --> 00:53:14,480
tradable picks, but they're about thirteen million dollars away from

1114
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:18,079
the second apron if nas Reed and Julius Randall pick

1115
00:53:18,159 --> 00:53:20,480
up their player options, and that's not including a new

1116
00:53:20,559 --> 00:53:23,559
deal from Nikkeile Alexander Walker. I'm open to the idea

1117
00:53:23,599 --> 00:53:26,400
that maybe Julius Randall's back at a lower number. I

1118
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:29,039
would not guess that Nikkeile Alexander Walker and Naz Reed

1119
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:32,000
are going to be back at lower numbers, and so

1120
00:53:32,039 --> 00:53:34,840
I'm very curious to see what their stomach is for

1121
00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:37,800
floating this core moving forward, which again that will be

1122
00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:40,280
determined to some extent by the playoffs. The fact that

1123
00:53:40,280 --> 00:53:43,719
they were linked to Kevin Durant though, I just I

1124
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:45,719
have my eye on that. And then just in general,

1125
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:48,239
because it's Julius RANDALLD could maybe beat his big exp

1126
00:53:48,519 --> 00:53:50,400
like he's another player where it's I don't know who's

1127
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:52,320
paying Julius Randall, and if he went out and took

1128
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:54,800
the non tax payer mid level exception, it takes it

1129
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:57,199
more than two full seasons to make up what he

1130
00:53:57,280 --> 00:53:59,880
was going to make. So will they look at moving him?

1131
00:54:00,199 --> 00:54:02,400
What is the like could they potentially move on from

1132
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:05,360
like NOAs red. I just it feels like their team

1133
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:08,639
is gonna look materially different, for better or worse, And

1134
00:54:08,679 --> 00:54:11,119
I don't know what direction it's like, like even if

1135
00:54:11,159 --> 00:54:13,639
Julius Randall, it feels like if he ops in might

1136
00:54:13,679 --> 00:54:17,280
be the cleanest scenario for them, but you still might

1137
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:19,400
have to pay nas Read and if he ops out, like,

1138
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:22,079
is there a team coming in at more than sixteen million?

1139
00:54:22,119 --> 00:54:24,000
A year, like close to the non taxpayer mid level

1140
00:54:24,039 --> 00:54:26,320
when there's finite cap space. So we're looking at sign

1141
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:28,480
in trades. Is he just leaving like a team like

1142
00:54:28,519 --> 00:54:31,039
Detroit decides to create cap space, or he might be

1143
00:54:31,039 --> 00:54:34,280
a good fit on the nets. They're just they have

1144
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:37,159
very little flexibility, and yet they're gonna be so fascinating

1145
00:54:37,199 --> 00:54:37,480
to make.

1146
00:54:38,039 --> 00:54:41,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think if you're nas read, you're kind

1147
00:54:41,519 --> 00:54:43,679
of hitting the midpoint of your career or you like

1148
00:54:44,079 --> 00:54:47,119
I would like to start, you know, and see like

1149
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:49,960
is that something he looks for along with your money

1150
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:52,159
and all that stuff. But but yeah, I'm with you

1151
00:54:52,199 --> 00:54:54,920
for all the same reasons you laid out. It's gonna

1152
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:58,320
be a fascinating uh somewhere for the for the Timberwolves,

1153
00:54:58,559 --> 00:55:02,559
just because you're close, right, and you have Anthony Edwards

1154
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:05,440
and the last thing you want to do is, man,

1155
00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:09,400
we have aunt while he's still young and pre prime, Like,

1156
00:55:09,559 --> 00:55:12,280
let's really try to get after this. And really that's

1157
00:55:12,280 --> 00:55:15,199
how you extend these windows. And instead of it being

1158
00:55:15,239 --> 00:55:17,039
a four year window, it turns into an eight year

1159
00:55:17,079 --> 00:55:19,920
window because we put the right guys around him. So yeah,

1160
00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:22,679
I'm with you in the KD stuff is a cap

1161
00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:26,440
nerd endlessly fascinating, because how the heck are we pulling

1162
00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:31,480
this off? Right? Yeah? Right? Two second apron teams like, yo,

1163
00:55:31,519 --> 00:55:33,440
what's this gonna look like? Yo? Ho? How do we

1164
00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:35,760
get there? And that's again, they'll get there if they

1165
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:38,599
really want to, but how that's gonna be really fun

1166
00:55:38,639 --> 00:55:38,960
to track?

1167
00:55:39,639 --> 00:55:41,840
Speaker 1: I've also wondered, I don't know what his market would be,

1168
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:44,199
but if you want to keep Nasrit and you think

1169
00:55:44,239 --> 00:55:45,960
that he can be kind of your starting big and

1170
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:49,320
maybe you believe in being able to approximate backups, you

1171
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:50,639
could you have Leonard Millard there?

1172
00:55:50,639 --> 00:55:51,840
Speaker 2: They seem pretty high on him.

1173
00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:54,559
Speaker 1: Could Rudy go Bear just be traded and he would

1174
00:55:54,559 --> 00:55:56,519
look at the Suns are looking to be competitive post

1175
00:55:56,599 --> 00:55:58,679
KD like he would probably make some sense in whatever

1176
00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:01,639
permutation they work up. But I don't know what that

1177
00:56:01,639 --> 00:56:04,159
permutation looks like, Keith, because it's okay, so it's Rudy

1178
00:56:04,199 --> 00:56:07,519
Gobert and Julius Randall and you're bringing in other teams, like,

1179
00:56:07,519 --> 00:56:09,760
are the Sons gonna accept that? And if you're the Wolves,

1180
00:56:10,119 --> 00:56:12,760
would you give up Rudy and j Mack like in

1181
00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:14,800
that type of a deal. It's just I don't know what,

1182
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:16,239
I don't know how big of a threat they really

1183
00:56:16,239 --> 00:56:18,239
are for k D, but if they ended up with him,

1184
00:56:18,239 --> 00:56:20,239
I would I would kill to know what that deal

1185
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:21,079
looks like in it man.

1186
00:56:21,159 --> 00:56:24,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, yeah, that's that's even when they said it

1187
00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:28,039
was starting, we talked about and I tried and couldn't

1188
00:56:28,079 --> 00:56:31,440
get any real clear answers, like how deep into this

1189
00:56:31,559 --> 00:56:35,559
did you get with these conversations, because like he's just

1190
00:56:35,599 --> 00:56:38,119
so complicated like that. That's that's gonna be a lot

1191
00:56:38,159 --> 00:56:39,400
of fun track if it happens.

1192
00:56:39,639 --> 00:56:41,519
Speaker 1: I have a bonus question on the timber Wolves, because

1193
00:56:41,519 --> 00:56:42,760
it wasn't clear based on the reporting.

1194
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:45,920
Speaker 2: I'm curious if you know anymore. Did they understand when

1195
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:48,280
the Mavericks came calling for Anthony Edwards that Luca Dantis

1196
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:51,239
was on the table or was that kept a secret?

1197
00:56:51,599 --> 00:56:56,079
Speaker 3: I have no idea, like they have to Lucas stuff.

1198
00:56:56,079 --> 00:56:59,360
I'm like, really like you were just randomly calling on

1199
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:02,079
all these other team stars and they were like, because

1200
00:57:02,079 --> 00:57:04,440
my answer would have been, sure, are you're trading us Luca?

1201
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:07,719
Like that? That's how they said, could we trade for

1202
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:11,639
Anthony Edwards? My response would have been, sure, trade us Luca?

1203
00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:14,079
And is that what they were looking for. And then

1204
00:57:14,119 --> 00:57:18,119
it was like, okay, like them, wait what really? Like

1205
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:20,440
I just I don't know, it's so weird.

1206
00:57:20,519 --> 00:57:22,800
Speaker 1: But it's weird too, is that if that happened? Though,

1207
00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:25,400
how did it not really get out until it happened

1208
00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:27,159
unless it was like the night of that they had

1209
00:57:27,159 --> 00:57:30,280
this discussion with with Minnesota. So I just found that

1210
00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:32,599
reporting fascinating. Yeah, who would be here next to you?

1211
00:57:33,239 --> 00:57:38,440
Speaker 3: All right? I'll say Utah. Only because one obviously the

1212
00:57:38,519 --> 00:57:41,440
league was like knock it off, like, no more of

1213
00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:45,679
this sitting everybody's stuff. There is the market and stuff

1214
00:57:45,679 --> 00:57:47,480
out there. Of like you said, they kind of paid

1215
00:57:47,480 --> 00:57:50,800
for a silence, but there was an understanding of this

1216
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:52,840
is not gonna be like a four year thing. This

1217
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:55,199
is gonna be only a couple of years. They've got

1218
00:57:55,199 --> 00:57:57,800
all kinds of draft picks coming up, a lot of

1219
00:57:57,800 --> 00:58:00,679
flexibility with their cap. You know where did they yell

1220
00:58:00,719 --> 00:58:02,480
that that that's team I've got an eye on?

1221
00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:04,440
Speaker 2: Yeah? There?

1222
00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:07,880
Speaker 1: And then it's also just like is Larry marketing available?

1223
00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:10,159
And you see an asset even after the season that

1224
00:58:10,280 --> 00:58:13,039
he's having and they're another team where it's sort of

1225
00:58:13,079 --> 00:58:16,000
like it feels and and they've been in their rebuild.

1226
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:17,880
This is year three and they don't really have like

1227
00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:19,679
a blue chip cornerstone to show for it.

1228
00:58:19,719 --> 00:58:22,360
Speaker 2: So that's the importance of this draft baking in.

1229
00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:26,559
Speaker 1: But is there any like angst around the organization to hey,

1230
00:58:26,599 --> 00:58:28,079
like we actually need to take like more of an

1231
00:58:28,079 --> 00:58:31,320
immediate win lost step forward rather than kind of tearing

1232
00:58:31,360 --> 00:58:34,440
it down even further because they they were too I

1233
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:36,760
know people criticized them for this, but we all had them,

1234
00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:39,760
like in the Doul drums immediately after they traded Gobert

1235
00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:42,400
and Mitchell. This was just two consecutive years of being

1236
00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:45,159
better than I think internally and externally they were ever

1237
00:58:45,199 --> 00:58:48,239
expected to be. And it's it's oddly almost set them back.

1238
00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:53,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the challenge, right, And that's where like I

1239
00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:57,000
get when Raptors fans and Nets fans are like, we're

1240
00:58:57,039 --> 00:59:02,400
winning too many games, Like it's much is it feels

1241
00:59:02,880 --> 00:59:05,920
bad to root for losses the way the NBA is

1242
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:08,679
set up, I mean really almost any of our professional sports.

1243
00:59:08,719 --> 00:59:10,840
Really it's the NBA and NFL, or it's two big ones.

1244
00:59:10,840 --> 00:59:14,800
With the draft, you root for losses because you know

1245
00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:16,800
the wins will come if you do the right thing

1246
00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:19,239
in the draft and that's where it just gets gets

1247
00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:22,880
really tricky. But yeah, I think thank you tadd I

1248
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:25,639
also would I don't know that Danny Aingel is in

1249
00:59:25,719 --> 00:59:29,159
this for like a five year rebuild. Like something tells

1250
00:59:29,199 --> 00:59:32,360
me he, you know, didn't sign on there to do

1251
00:59:32,400 --> 00:59:34,840
this until he's ninety, so I think there is a

1252
00:59:34,920 --> 00:59:37,239
chance like he's gonna be like, hey, let's push a

1253
00:59:37,239 --> 00:59:39,960
little bit more and try try to be better a

1254
00:59:40,039 --> 00:59:41,159
little sooner out of them.

1255
00:59:41,079 --> 00:59:43,840
Speaker 1: Later they would be really because I love when random

1256
00:59:43,840 --> 00:59:45,559
teams come out of the woodwork where it's the next

1257
00:59:45,599 --> 00:59:47,960
player who's like in their twenties that's a star becomes

1258
00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:49,800
available and the jazz are like, you know what, we're

1259
00:59:49,840 --> 00:59:52,480
gonna take our top five pick, and we're also and

1260
00:59:52,519 --> 00:59:54,320
we're gonna try to rebuild around them, and like if

1261
00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:55,960
it's a Devin Booker type deal, they were like, no,

1262
00:59:56,000 --> 00:59:58,199
we're gonna go and get Devin Booker even though maybe

1263
00:59:58,199 --> 00:59:59,519
we're not on his preferred list.

1264
01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:05,599
Speaker 3: Yeah. I always tell people with Utah Tou, it becomes

1265
01:00:05,639 --> 01:00:08,440
this whole it's not a free agent destination and players

1266
01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:11,480
don't want to play there and all this stuff until

1267
01:00:11,519 --> 01:00:14,800
they play there, and then every single guy you talk

1268
01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:18,760
to will tell you I loved it in Utah because

1269
01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:21,800
one is when they're home, they just want to be

1270
01:00:21,880 --> 01:00:25,400
left alone and like no one bothers them there. And

1271
01:00:25,440 --> 01:00:27,639
then when they want to go out, it's like a

1272
01:00:27,719 --> 01:00:31,880
thirty minute trip to Las Vegas, like via the air.

1273
01:00:32,199 --> 01:00:34,320
So like guys are like I can pop over to

1274
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:38,000
Vegas if we have two consecutive days off, party one night,

1275
01:00:38,039 --> 01:00:39,760
come home the next night, and be ready to get

1276
01:00:39,800 --> 01:00:42,800
back to work. Like I've talked to so many players

1277
01:00:42,840 --> 01:00:45,000
that they are like, you know, I didn't really want

1278
01:00:45,039 --> 01:00:46,639
to go there at first, but once I got there,

1279
01:00:46,679 --> 01:00:48,920
I loved it. And that's where I think they kind

1280
01:00:48,960 --> 01:00:51,199
of know, hey, we can get guys, and once we

1281
01:00:51,280 --> 01:00:54,000
get them here, they're happy to be here like that

1282
01:00:54,119 --> 01:00:57,159
they're not, you know, so like, oh man, I'm just

1283
01:00:57,159 --> 01:01:00,400
stuck inside all the time. There's nothing to do. So

1284
01:01:00,400 --> 01:01:02,119
that's something I always kind of keep in my back

1285
01:01:02,159 --> 01:01:04,320
pocket of you know, you have they make any kind

1286
01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:07,000
of surprising move, it's like, yeah, well they probably feel

1287
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:09,000
pretty good about they're gonna win the guy over.

1288
01:01:09,559 --> 01:01:11,320
Speaker 2: My next team is the Houston Rockets.

1289
01:01:11,480 --> 01:01:14,960
Speaker 1: I think everyone has them ticketed for a consolidation trade,

1290
01:01:15,480 --> 01:01:18,360
and I would agree but I don't know if it's

1291
01:01:18,360 --> 01:01:21,559
coming this offseason. Again, it's a case of the playoffs

1292
01:01:21,599 --> 01:01:24,079
will determine a lot. I don't believe in their half

1293
01:01:24,079 --> 01:01:26,840
court offense. It's bottom five in the league, very dependent

1294
01:01:26,880 --> 01:01:29,159
on Fred van Fleet. I think they need somebody who's

1295
01:01:29,559 --> 01:01:32,599
more consistent than Jalen Green at a better playmaker than

1296
01:01:32,599 --> 01:01:35,519
both Van Fleet and Jalen Green in there on the

1297
01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:38,199
like to work from the outside in specifically, but I

1298
01:01:38,239 --> 01:01:40,400
don't like when you look at what they've accomplished this season,

1299
01:01:40,480 --> 01:01:42,599
contending for a number two spot in the West. If

1300
01:01:42,639 --> 01:01:44,679
you win a playoff series or take a good team

1301
01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:48,000
like the Warriors to seven games or something, and you

1302
01:01:48,039 --> 01:01:50,159
don't have to Okay, Shangun and Jalen Green, their deals

1303
01:01:50,159 --> 01:01:53,039
are gonna kick in. Easton and Jabari Smith Junior are

1304
01:01:53,079 --> 01:01:55,480
just extension eligibility. You can let it ride out to RFA.

1305
01:01:55,599 --> 01:01:57,679
You could extend them and then figure it out next summer.

1306
01:01:58,199 --> 01:02:00,800
I think that and especially the answer to it. I

1307
01:02:00,840 --> 01:02:02,800
believe the answer to everything they need is actually on

1308
01:02:02,840 --> 01:02:05,679
the roster. That's how high I am on reach Shepherd. Still,

1309
01:02:06,159 --> 01:02:08,559
I'm interested to see whether they take that slant, depending

1310
01:02:08,599 --> 01:02:10,320
on what happens in the postseason, and if they do,

1311
01:02:10,880 --> 01:02:12,519
if you're a team that ends up being a seller,

1312
01:02:12,559 --> 01:02:16,639
that's removing like a pretty big potential suitor from the equation,

1313
01:02:16,800 --> 01:02:18,920
and then I would be curious see how that impacts

1314
01:02:19,199 --> 01:02:20,639
the overarching trade market.

1315
01:02:21,800 --> 01:02:24,280
Speaker 3: I think this is where it's really really hard to

1316
01:02:24,280 --> 01:02:28,719
be an NBA GM because the Rockets are a perfect

1317
01:02:28,760 --> 01:02:32,679
example of if you go too early, maybe you never

1318
01:02:32,719 --> 01:02:35,920
get there. If you go too late, maybe you never

1319
01:02:35,960 --> 01:02:39,679
get there. Meaning like, if you cash in right now,

1320
01:02:40,519 --> 01:02:43,239
then you're younger guys that you need to like, the

1321
01:02:43,239 --> 01:02:45,639
ones who are still left that you need to be

1322
01:02:45,679 --> 01:02:48,880
really good aren't quite ready. If you wait a little

1323
01:02:48,960 --> 01:02:54,119
too long, then what ends up happening is you you

1324
01:02:54,199 --> 01:02:56,840
never get there right now all of a sudden. It's man,

1325
01:02:56,840 --> 01:02:58,920
we had all these nice young players, but they're not

1326
01:02:59,320 --> 01:03:03,079
really all that interesting, is trade chips? Right? It's People

1327
01:03:03,119 --> 01:03:05,440
ask me all the time, like why why did teams

1328
01:03:05,440 --> 01:03:07,880
want draft picks so bad? Because the draft pick can

1329
01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:10,840
be anything, right, It could be you know, it could

1330
01:03:10,840 --> 01:03:13,679
be it could be the next All Star. Once a

1331
01:03:13,719 --> 01:03:15,719
guy is kind of on the floor and you've kind

1332
01:03:15,719 --> 01:03:18,360
of seen him, you're a little like, all right, he's okay,

1333
01:03:18,480 --> 01:03:21,000
but he's not really there. And that's where I think

1334
01:03:21,079 --> 01:03:25,039
what's really interesting with the Rocket says, do you get

1335
01:03:25,079 --> 01:03:28,159
there you know? Or do you just keep pushing them

1336
01:03:28,199 --> 01:03:30,119
with the guys you have? Because I'm with you. I

1337
01:03:30,159 --> 01:03:32,000
love the young core, I love the way they've put

1338
01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:35,400
this team together. But if they don't all come together perfectly,

1339
01:03:35,440 --> 01:03:38,199
you're never gonna actually take that next step. And then

1340
01:03:38,199 --> 01:03:40,199
that may be where now we kind of missed our

1341
01:03:40,239 --> 01:03:40,880
trade would now.

1342
01:03:41,679 --> 01:03:45,079
Speaker 1: And there's like the element of after this season, there's

1343
01:03:45,159 --> 01:03:47,559
just going to be expectations caked in if you finish

1344
01:03:47,639 --> 01:03:49,559
third or whatever. In the West, it's that's the bar

1345
01:03:50,039 --> 01:03:52,280
fair or not. We know progress isn't linear, but that's

1346
01:03:52,320 --> 01:03:54,320
the bar to which you're going to be held, not

1347
01:03:54,400 --> 01:03:56,679
just moving forward, but for next season specifically.

1348
01:03:57,440 --> 01:03:59,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, without a doubt, Yeah, if you're if you're not,

1349
01:04:00,480 --> 01:04:05,400
you're not. Like this year, I think everybody kind of you.

1350
01:04:05,400 --> 01:04:07,519
You're kind of almost playing with us money right now

1351
01:04:08,000 --> 01:04:10,199
a little bit where it's like, just get into the playoffs,

1352
01:04:10,239 --> 01:04:13,360
don't embarrass yourself, even if you lose in the first round.

1353
01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:16,079
As long as it's competitive, I think everybody will live

1354
01:04:16,079 --> 01:04:19,599
with it. But next year it's it has to be better, right,

1355
01:04:19,800 --> 01:04:23,039
You can't. You can't keep running that same thing back.

1356
01:04:23,559 --> 01:04:27,320
And that's where we've seen teams sometimes they just they

1357
01:04:27,400 --> 01:04:29,679
run into it and then it's like it never actually

1358
01:04:29,679 --> 01:04:32,400
gets better, and then it's like, man, we kind of

1359
01:04:32,440 --> 01:04:35,320
missed our window because now it's guys are on that

1360
01:04:35,400 --> 01:04:39,119
second contract or there the shines off them as prospects

1361
01:04:39,239 --> 01:04:41,199
or whatever it may be. But yeah, I'm with you

1362
01:04:41,239 --> 01:04:44,679
on Houston. I love that young core. I'm I'm okay

1363
01:04:44,719 --> 01:04:47,000
if they want to grow it together a little bit more,

1364
01:04:47,079 --> 01:04:50,000
maybe make a tweak around the edges a little bit here.

1365
01:04:50,039 --> 01:04:51,840
But but I'm alright if they don't want to cash

1366
01:04:51,840 --> 01:04:54,800
in for like Kevin Durant or whoever it is right now,

1367
01:04:54,840 --> 01:04:57,719
because I don't know that that's gonna be better for

1368
01:04:57,760 --> 01:04:59,840
them two three, four years.

1369
01:05:00,199 --> 01:05:03,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, I actively advocate against the Kevin Durant fit unless

1370
01:05:03,079 --> 01:05:05,119
he's just so cheap that it's like money and a

1371
01:05:05,239 --> 01:05:07,519
pick or two. Is there anything about the fred Van

1372
01:05:07,559 --> 01:05:10,000
Fleet team option that will signal maybe that like, if

1373
01:05:10,000 --> 01:05:12,039
they pick up the Fred Van Fleet team option, does

1374
01:05:12,079 --> 01:05:14,079
that seem to make it more likely that be making

1375
01:05:14,079 --> 01:05:16,000
a bigger move, Because in my head it was why

1376
01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:17,760
wouldn't you decline it and try and bring him back

1377
01:05:17,800 --> 01:05:19,679
at like a lower number if you actually wanted to

1378
01:05:19,760 --> 01:05:20,480
keep him around.

1379
01:05:20,840 --> 01:05:23,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think if you just pick it up, I

1380
01:05:23,599 --> 01:05:26,360
think there's a better chance to buy the trade deadline.

1381
01:05:26,719 --> 01:05:28,519
You're thinking, we may want to put him into a

1382
01:05:28,559 --> 01:05:32,800
deal and you'll really do something big. If you don't

1383
01:05:32,920 --> 01:05:34,719
pick it up, then I think you're in a spot

1384
01:05:34,760 --> 01:05:37,800
where it becomes all right, let's try to you know,

1385
01:05:37,840 --> 01:05:40,719
take that forty five million dollars eas oede and let's

1386
01:05:40,719 --> 01:05:44,039
break that up into you know, three year sixty million

1387
01:05:44,119 --> 01:05:48,039
or something like that. You know, well, we're just rebalances

1388
01:05:48,079 --> 01:05:50,679
a little bit better. I'm moving forward. So yeah, I'm

1389
01:05:51,360 --> 01:05:54,079
that'll give us a little bit of a signal on

1390
01:05:54,159 --> 01:05:55,320
which direction they're headed.

1391
01:05:55,519 --> 01:05:57,599
Speaker 2: Did you have any other teams left on your list

1392
01:05:57,840 --> 01:05:58,280
to watch?

1393
01:05:58,400 --> 01:06:00,480
Speaker 3: No, you you hit the big ones and in the

1394
01:06:00,480 --> 01:06:02,639
ones I gave you, those are the teams I'm kind

1395
01:06:02,639 --> 01:06:04,079
of keeping my eye on the.

1396
01:06:04,239 --> 01:06:05,599
Speaker 2: I will say, I do have one more if you

1397
01:06:05,679 --> 01:06:06,519
have the time for it.

1398
01:06:07,000 --> 01:06:07,440
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1399
01:06:07,840 --> 01:06:09,159
Speaker 2: The Portland Trailblazers.

1400
01:06:09,480 --> 01:06:11,639
Speaker 1: I've seen a lot of their fans being disappointed that

1401
01:06:11,719 --> 01:06:13,239
like their draft picks not going to be higher, and

1402
01:06:13,239 --> 01:06:16,239
I would I sympathize and I would normally agree if

1403
01:06:16,280 --> 01:06:19,679
they weren't like finding success with the players who should

1404
01:06:19,719 --> 01:06:23,119
be playing for the most part, And I'm very curious

1405
01:06:23,119 --> 01:06:26,800
to see how, if at all, they react to their

1406
01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:30,079
mid season success over the offseasons where Okay, they're not

1407
01:06:30,159 --> 01:06:31,800
going to have cap space, but you have a bunch

1408
01:06:31,880 --> 01:06:34,920
of players, whether it's Jeremy Grant and Frey Simon's going

1409
01:06:34,920 --> 01:06:37,960
into a contract year eight AND's expiring, Robert Williams the

1410
01:06:37,960 --> 01:06:41,079
third that you could justify moving the veterans. But if

1411
01:06:41,079 --> 01:06:42,519
you do move any of those guys, I don't know

1412
01:06:42,519 --> 01:06:45,239
what the market for Grant is. Are you looking for

1413
01:06:45,360 --> 01:06:47,719
draft picks and prospects in return or are you Because

1414
01:06:47,719 --> 01:06:50,039
it feels like they're a team where they're rebuild feels

1415
01:06:50,039 --> 01:06:52,119
like it actually started earlier than it did because of

1416
01:06:52,159 --> 01:06:56,079
how pointless the latter Damian Lillard years ultimately were. Are

1417
01:06:56,119 --> 01:06:57,800
they going to be in a position to where it's, Oh,

1418
01:06:57,880 --> 01:07:00,639
they looked at the progress Scoot made, what Tamati Kamar

1419
01:07:00,800 --> 01:07:03,039
is doing, Donovan Klington, what he's been able to do

1420
01:07:03,079 --> 01:07:05,599
this year, the moments from Shade and Sharp. Are they

1421
01:07:05,599 --> 01:07:07,719
gonna look at and having Dennyava are they gonna look

1422
01:07:07,719 --> 01:07:09,840
at it and say, we're gonna like try and like

1423
01:07:10,079 --> 01:07:13,239
consolidate here, like ultimately try to get better rather than

1424
01:07:13,280 --> 01:07:15,039
m continue this phase of our rebuild.

1425
01:07:16,320 --> 01:07:19,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm with you. They're like a sneaky team where

1426
01:07:19,880 --> 01:07:23,440
I could see them take a couple of the veteran

1427
01:07:23,480 --> 01:07:26,760
guys that aren't necessarily really big parts of the future.

1428
01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:29,920
It turned them into somebody who can really try to

1429
01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:34,280
lift them next next season. Because I think they've done

1430
01:07:34,280 --> 01:07:37,639
the rebuilt thing now for a few years. I think

1431
01:07:37,679 --> 01:07:41,199
there's some level of impatience there of let's try to

1432
01:07:41,239 --> 01:07:44,159
be better sooner rather than later. Let's not get caught

1433
01:07:44,360 --> 01:07:47,199
because some of these teams in the West just so,

1434
01:07:47,239 --> 01:07:50,320
they're not going away anytime soon, so we don't want

1435
01:07:50,320 --> 01:07:54,079
to get Cobb or we're perpetually somewhere between eighth and

1436
01:07:54,119 --> 01:07:56,880
twelve in the conference. So I do think you may

1437
01:07:56,920 --> 01:08:00,000
see them try to push forward sooner athan later.

1438
01:08:00,880 --> 01:08:02,639
Speaker 1: I do also really quickly just have my eye on

1439
01:08:02,719 --> 01:08:05,280
Milwaukee because brook Lopez is a free agent and if

1440
01:08:05,360 --> 01:08:07,639
for some reason, I mean, like what if they lose

1441
01:08:07,719 --> 01:08:09,920
tes right now, they could lose to the Pacers in

1442
01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:12,639
Round one, and with brook Lopez being a free agent

1443
01:08:12,679 --> 01:08:13,159
and older.

1444
01:08:13,360 --> 01:08:13,800
Speaker 2: What does that do?

1445
01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:16,079
Speaker 1: Like date, everyone talks about what will Giannis has drop?

1446
01:08:16,199 --> 01:08:18,359
Like if Damian Lillard doesn't make a deep playoff run

1447
01:08:18,399 --> 01:08:20,520
with this team in his first two years, what happens

1448
01:08:20,520 --> 01:08:22,319
with him? And then what kind of trickle down effect

1449
01:08:22,319 --> 01:08:24,119
does that have for Giannis? They feel like sort of

1450
01:08:24,119 --> 01:08:27,039
the the wild card team of like, oh, they could

1451
01:08:27,039 --> 01:08:31,079
really like dictate the biggest offseason sweepstakes this summer.

1452
01:08:31,800 --> 01:08:35,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm with you. There's certainly going to be if

1453
01:08:35,359 --> 01:08:38,560
they fall well shored of their goals, which I think,

1454
01:08:38,720 --> 01:08:41,520
you know, it's gonna have to be a conference finals

1455
01:08:41,600 --> 01:08:44,600
run for them to feel anything good about where they're at.

1456
01:08:44,880 --> 01:08:46,600
I think you're going to see them definitely make some

1457
01:08:46,680 --> 01:08:49,319
changes and then yeah, we'll see. With brook Lopez, I mean,

1458
01:08:49,319 --> 01:08:52,279
he's still clearly getting it done. But brook Lopez has

1459
01:08:52,319 --> 01:08:55,319
always seemed like one of those guys who when he's done,

1460
01:08:55,560 --> 01:08:58,199
like he's just gonna be I'm done. They just walk

1461
01:08:58,239 --> 01:09:00,640
away and you know, hang out at this world and

1462
01:09:00,680 --> 01:09:03,279
be be you know, happy doing that, versus you know,

1463
01:09:03,479 --> 01:09:06,960
just I don't know that he's gonna play forever just

1464
01:09:07,000 --> 01:09:09,319
to keep playing like It's never really felt that way

1465
01:09:09,800 --> 01:09:12,159
with him. And that's not a criticism by any means,

1466
01:09:12,399 --> 01:09:14,760
because we've all seen, you know, guys are stuck around,

1467
01:09:14,920 --> 01:09:17,600
you know, several years too long. I've just never gotten

1468
01:09:17,640 --> 01:09:19,279
that sense that he's gonna be that guy.

1469
01:09:20,359 --> 01:09:22,880
Speaker 1: Keith, this was great as always. You were super generous

1470
01:09:22,920 --> 01:09:26,119
with your time. Your insight remains beyond compare. Are you

1471
01:09:26,159 --> 01:09:28,439
able just to tell our listeners and subs where they

1472
01:09:28,439 --> 01:09:30,880
can find you in all the fantastic work that you're doing.

1473
01:09:31,199 --> 01:09:33,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can find my written work over at spa

1474
01:09:33,479 --> 01:09:36,840
track dot com as well as the Basketball Bulletin. Most

1475
01:09:36,920 --> 01:09:40,439
days I do a NBA Game Notes, which is just

1476
01:09:40,920 --> 01:09:43,399
notes from the games I watch, plays that stood out

1477
01:09:43,439 --> 01:09:45,560
to me. I don't do a lot of commenting on

1478
01:09:45,680 --> 01:09:48,680
like oh, you know, you know Luca had fifty last

1479
01:09:48,760 --> 01:09:51,880
night because you probably saw that, you know, it might

1480
01:09:51,920 --> 01:09:54,560
be more like, you know, Dorian Fidney Smith had seven

1481
01:09:54,600 --> 01:09:57,640
assists and did some mom ball playmaking like those are

1482
01:09:57,800 --> 01:10:00,359
kind of things that that that h you know. I

1483
01:10:00,359 --> 01:10:02,359
try to highlight there and catch things like go a

1484
01:10:02,399 --> 01:10:04,840
little bit under the radar and then if you're interested

1485
01:10:04,840 --> 01:10:10,159
in more offseason talk, transaction talk, roster type stuff, CBA things,

1486
01:10:10,439 --> 01:10:12,680
NBA front Officer with Trevor Lady and I will find

1487
01:10:12,680 --> 01:10:14,399
that anywhere you listen to podcast A.

1488
01:10:15,119 --> 01:10:15,800
Speaker 2: Thank you so much.

1489
01:10:15,800 --> 01:10:18,800
Speaker 1: As always, Keith rest assured I will be pestering you

1490
01:10:18,840 --> 01:10:21,359
again in the future, and once more, thank you so

1491
01:10:21,439 --> 01:10:22,840
much for your time and I'll talk to you too.

1492
01:10:23,199 --> 01:10:24,840
Speaker 3: I appreciate it. Thanks so much for having me