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Speaker 1: Happy New Year, everyone, Welcome to the Good Trouble Show.

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Super glad everybody is here today, and as my prompter

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decides to do its own thing anyway, super excited. Hope

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everyone had a wonderful time during their holidays and a

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very happy new Year. I know that. I think everyone

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is hoping we have an even better twenty twenty six

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in terms of the whole UAP disclosure effort. And yeah,

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so our guest today. He is a professor of pathology

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at Stanford University School of Medicine. He earned his degrees

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in biology and genetics from Cornell and Stanford, trained with

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Nobel Laureate David Baltimore, and has published over three hundred

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and fifty scientific papers. I mean, you think about that

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in and of itself, it's pretty impressive. He also happens

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to have over fifty patents. Leading immunologist and biotech entrepreneur,

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he invented powerful tools for studying cells, founded several successful companies,

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and has recently been analyzing unusual materials and biological effects

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linked to UAP sidings. He is the co founder of

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the Soul Foundation, one of the places I absolutely love

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to go every year for their conferences. Please welcome doctor

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Gary Nolan. Gary, how are you. We're off to a

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rip roaring start.

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Speaker 2: Great. Well, hello everybody, and happy New Year as well,

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and thanks for the invitation.

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Speaker 1: You're very very welcome. I think is like your third

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or fourth time on the show. But how are your

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holidays and what kind of trouble did you get into

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on New Year's Eve?

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Speaker 2: Actually we were in bed by around ten thirty. I've

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done I mean, look, I've done all night raves, etc.

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Party boats, you name it. I not that my party

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days are pasted. I mean, geez. I went to Michanos

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to the big end of summer party there with a

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bunch of friends and five thousand guys and that was

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a lot of fun. So I'm not I'm not beyond

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a good party. But it was nice to just have

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some time alone with my husband and friends. We went

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over to the next door neighbors here for a little

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bit of the evening, so it was nice, very nice, excellent.

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Speaker 1: Did you make any sort of good New Year's Eve

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resolutions that you'll be sticking to?

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Speaker 2: My god, we'll see. Well, it's the same one every year.

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Go back to the gym, which I do. Uh, you know,

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I think you know. I mean, let's just sort of

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circle immediately to the UAP thing. It's doubled down on

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doing what's important and not get distracted by what's not

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by you know, people or efforts attempting to distract because

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they feel that they need attention and so because you

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never get anything done by not focusing, and so you know,

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it's it's you know, it's important, I think. So that's

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what it is for me at least. I mean literally,

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in five days I am sixty five years old. Wow,

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so I'm yeah, so January eighth, so you know, the

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clock begins to tick in your head. It's not that

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I don't feel like I've accomplished things. It's more that

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I still have things that I want to do. And

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it's not just about me. It's about what can I

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do for others to either pass on whatever I've learned

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personally or what I've learned from others that I think

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are worthy of consideration. But I feel at large and

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so uh and that's you know, for me, frankly, just

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how to do science. That's what I've done for the

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last three years and.

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Speaker 1: We're and we're going to get into it. I have

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to say, probably my only New Year's Eve resolution is

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to lose the lose the eight pounds that I gained

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over the holidays. So that's that's that's where I'm starting.

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But folks, before we jump into it fully with doctor Nolan,

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let's talk about about the show. So he will be

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taking questions from all of us, all of you watching

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right now, So just drop drop your questions into the chat,

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but do it, do it in all caps, and our

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Good Trouble Show moderators will they'll compile the questions and

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we'll hand them off to doctor Nolan. And then also

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later in the program, we have a surprise for the audience,

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doctor Gary Nolan as you have never seen him before.

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And uh, it's that's that's going to be fun. But

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first thing I want to jump into is exactly oh

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is right is this whole narrative thing, and when it

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comes to the UAP issue. As everyone knows, this topic

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has been labeled as fringe. I mean, really, if you

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think about it from the very beginning and sort of

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purposely labeled as fringe, is the UAP narrative changing in

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both the general public realm and the scientific academic realm.

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And if you think it has, why.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I certainly think it has without doubt. I mean

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there's a I mean, you know, it began certainly or

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took off with Leslie Keynes and Lumthal's article in the

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New York Times, you know, subject to Louelasondo and Chris

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Mellon's help getting the videos out the door, and of

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course the mini brave pilots and hustle blowers such as

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David Grush as well, who you know and who've come

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forward to talk about it, you know. And but I

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think it's important for everybody to realize that unfortunately, at

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this stage these are all still anecdotes. I mean, well,

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the videos are not anecdotes, of course, but many of

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the anecdotes, such as what came out from Dan Ferre's

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Age of Disclosure and the story that James Fox has

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told about the events in Brazil and what I understand

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to be things that will be coming. I don't know

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anything more than what James has been saying publicly. You know.

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I think those continue to keep my interest and they

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keep the interest of the public. I mean, just look

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at what Dan Ferrer's film has done. It went to

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number one, not just for a week, for all time,

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for you know, a downloaded program. So and of course

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we know that Steven Spielberg has something coming out, so

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there's a drum beat. I don't think that proves anything.

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But what I think it proves is that there's an

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acceptance for the matter that has changed. I think the

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posture of those who were the what I'm going to

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just term them pseudo skeptics, they're now the ones on

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the defensive. I mean, they just seem to be screeching

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louder and louder. You've got the likes of the Wall

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Street Journal and the others, and thank you very much

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for your efforts, Matt, sort of getting the news out

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that this, you know, attempt was coming. It certainly forewarned

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me and I was able to, you know, as the

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last couple of days, I put up that notice that

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I had gotten from somebody at the Wall Street Journal

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asking for my help, and I was like, in no know,

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in certain terms, will I will I talk to you.

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What I should have done was sent the analysis I

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had done of everything that was wrong with the last

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thing that they had done, and said, well, when you

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when you write an article publicly disclaiming what you said

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before and admitting what you did wrong, then maybe I'll

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talk to you, right, you know. I mean, see, what's

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interesting is that they expect, for instance, me, everything that

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I say, or everything that Avi says, or everything that

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Kevin Nuth says, or everything that Matt Sigdallas or many

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others say. Everything we say has to be right. And

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we say anything one thing wrong, then oh that just

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discredes everything.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But when they make a thousand mistakes, they just change

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the subject, right, and they're allowed to keep coming back.

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So I think the posture has changed. They're the ones,

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at least as stars. I'm concerned. I'm like, they don't matter.

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I get stopped in airports now by people saying thank

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you very much. I notice people. I notice people thanking me,

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which is nice, all very nice, you know. But even

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my scientific colleagues. Look, I still get invited to give

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big talks. I'm you know, I'm helping the National Cancer

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Institute design a new strategy forward for tour imminology and

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actually using artificial intelligence. I'm you know, and you know

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I'm invited here there. I'm about to get a big

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award that will be announced soon. Uh and uh, you know,

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and and what people want to hear is not just

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the science. But then they always say, hey, Gary, tell

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us a little bit about that other stuff that you're

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that you're known. Of course, I was invited to you know,

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Richard Branson's Island a few months back with a bunch

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of friends talk about cancer and AI. But they wanted

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me part of it, to talk about UAP and and

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and Richard Branson was there in the audience, and you know,

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and it was it was fun. And I think I

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made a slight mistake in saying I can be bribed

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with Martini if you really want to know what's going on.

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And for the next several days at this you know,

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very nice place, I was, you know, showered with offers

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of Martiniz Wow, it okay, I only drank.

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Speaker 1: A couple of course. I want to jump back and

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talk about evidence. And you know, I'm not a scientist,

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to be honest, I failed college physics and many other things.

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I think it was too busy chasing girls and drinking

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beer to pay attention in college, unfortunately. But back in

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twenty twenty three, the former director of ARROW, doctor Sean Kirkpatrick, stated,

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quote Arrow has found no credible evidence thus far of

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extraterrestrial activity, off world technology, or objects that defy the

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known laws of physics. Then, in twenty twenty four, doctor

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Sean Kirkpatrick version two or who I like to call

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Doctor John Koslowski stated, quote today Arrow has not discovered

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any verifiable evidence of extraterrestrial beings, activity, or technology. What

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do you say to that? And then do you think

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that the specific use of the word extraterrestrial is sort of,

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you know, some some kind of cute wordsmanship.

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Speaker 2: Well, I certainly think that there's some very careful legalistic

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framing that's going on. Susan Goff has done so, and

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I know our friend and I'm sorry, I'm blanking. Chris

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Sharp from the Liberation Times. Liberation Times has pointed out

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when he I think wrote to her asking for, you know,

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would you like to alter what it is that you

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have to say about and her answer was no, We're

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going to keep it the same. So, you know, look,

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I don't know why they're doing that, you know, because

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at the same time as they say we found no

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credible evidence, I mean, evidence is either evidence or not.

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I mean, it's it's like, is the data credible not

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is the evidence credible? I mean because to say is

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evidence credible is to question the underlying data. Evidence is

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only a truth or let's say, supportive of a hypothesis

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or a conclusion in the context of the conclusion of

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the of the hypothesis or a question. So it's it's

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an interesting lack of understanding, even on the part of Arrow,

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of what the terminology means. And so I think by

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doing that, they unfortunately, and I'd love for them to

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be good about it, they just discredit their own scientific underpinnings.

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But then at the same time they will publish a

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list of god knows how many things that they can't explain.

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They'll put out pictures of spheres moving around, you know,

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like the one in Mussul, and then openly state that

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we see many of these things. Phillips gets out and

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says some pretty interesting things as well.

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Speaker 1: He's a Star Trek fan, that's for sure, and.

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Speaker 2: You know, and he was involved deeply with Arrow too,

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So you know, it's kind of they're talking out of

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both sides of their mouths, and and I think it's

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an indication of the internal struggle that might be going

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on inside the government as to you know, what is

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it should we say, when should we say it. Look,

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I would I would love for them just to truthfully

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tell me it's all rubbish and then open the books

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so that I can validate that as all rubbish, right,

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because they won't open the books, and because everything that

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they put out, as you know, I think a Greenwall

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to the Black Vault has shown it ends up getting

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redacted to hell. I mean, I have my differences with

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Greenwald every once in a while the you know, but

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the truth of the matter, he's done a you know,

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an enormously positive job collecting data and making it available

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for everybody and hounding them, yes with Freedom of Information

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Act requests, So you know, kudos to him. I mean,

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I I don't hold grudges, except I guessing a couple

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of people, I guess, But you know, it's just it's

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just not worth it the because I think, whether it's

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somebody's intention or not, the divisions that happen within any community,

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whether it's UAP or anything, are certainly not helpful and

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we should always be looking for commonalities of purpose and

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goal and not personality. And that's just my opinion.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I completely understand what is your One of the

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things that we've had quite a few sources. Tell us

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is that Arrow has made limited offers to a couple

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three people to financially support their scientific work on the

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UAP issue. And I think that these are probably folks

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that are would be safe to say or developing sensor technology,

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sensor fusion technology. Do you think that there is an

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inherent danger with getting into bed with Arrow? If you

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are a scientific organization and you know, and I'll also

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say I look at anyone that we're to take this offer,

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I would not look at it in a judgmental way.

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I mean, research takes money, Running organizations takes money. Nothing

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in life is free. But what are the inherent risks

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of these scientists and other organizations partnering with Errow?

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Speaker 2: So I mean, I agree with you that if they

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have the resources, that should be attractive, but there should

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be a legal framework set up around the use of

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the data. You know, if they're going to provide me

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with money for sensors, let's say, then I will give

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them first choice to look at it, but I will

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not give them the right to wantonly prevent me from

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using it in a publication unless it's like, well that's

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obviously something of ours, Gary, and we don't need anybody

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to know what it is, but they can't claim methods

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and approaches when it's a technique that I developed, right

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to look at something. And so I you know, I

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think you just have to look at it as a

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double edged sword and not allow, you know, secrecy agreements

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to prevent you from doing things. Uh you know, I mean, look,

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I I I had a I have I guess still

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a TS but it was never really used appropriately or enough.

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And so I hold no I hold no deep dark secrets. Uh. Frankly,

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all I hold are confidences and and and handshakes with

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with people as to information that I keep private. And

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I would do that with anybody. You know, if if

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I promise somebody I won't say something, I won't do,

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I won't say it right, you know. So you know,

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the the the the the accusations that come against not

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just me, but about anybody in this field that somehow

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that we're our hands are tied. It's just ridiculous. Anybody

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who knows me knows that. I just you know, it

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has to be a very good national security reason why

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I would agree to holding certain things in confidence. I mean, certainly,

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if I had signed I'd learned something under ts it

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stays secret no matter what it is. It could be

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the the color of a rose, it doesn't matter. I

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would keep it secret. But I think, yeah, you just

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gotta be you gotta be careful, you know. I mean,

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I think in the early days, tt S a uh uh,

279
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you know, tried this with the so called bismuth material,

280
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right uh, and the magnesium bismuth material, and you know,

281
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the the the piece disappeared into the doe for a while.

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It was returned eventually. It took some arm twisting, I understand,

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to get the report back out of from them. I

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looked at at the report. It was actually it actually

285
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it was pretty good in terms of the some of

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the basic science, but it missed a few things, or it,

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I don't know, kind of glossed over a few things.

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And I've shown publicly, you know, even very recently, some

289
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more work that we've been doing on it that shows,

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I don't there's something interesting there. I don't know what

291
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it is. It's you know, I don't know whether it's

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help put Off's wave guide or not, but I certainly

293
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know it's interesting. And I've you know, got a couple

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of guys over in the physics department here and applied

295
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physics who've looked at it with techniques that I didn't

296
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even know existed that show that there's just something interesting

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going on.

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Speaker 1: Amazing.

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Speaker 2: It does absorb in exactly the frequency that Hall suggested

300
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it would, the terrorts frequency. Now, whether whether anything would

301
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or whether that's just some artifact is yet to be determined.

302
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It doesn't prove or disprove anything that Hal has has

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said in the in the past.

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Speaker 1: Let's let's go back to Arrow, because what I want

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to move into is the whole disclosure issue. So I

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think what is confusing about Arrow? And you kind of

307
00:20:13,519 --> 00:20:16,599
touched on that a bit. You have Aero saying there's

308
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sort of nothing going on here, yet there are these

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silver orbs floating around. Then you have doctor Sean Kirkpatrick

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going out after he left and kind of insulting Congress

311
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and doing some other things, the same thing with Tim Phillips,

312
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disparaging whistle blowers. And then I even get an invitation

313
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on LinkedIn to apply for a job with Arrow with

314
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:49,279
the Pentagon's Arrow Office, and the written job requirement that

315
00:20:49,319 --> 00:20:51,839
they sent me, actually it was on It wasn't in

316
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the DM that I got from the from the recruiter.

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00:20:54,759 --> 00:20:59,079
It was on their website. But the job requirement. Three

318
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of the job required on this position that they asked

319
00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:08,240
me to apply for were information operations, uh, deception activities

320
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and I've got a disinformation something like that. It was

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like three things that were clearly psychological warfare things that

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you would say, Okay, why would they why would they

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want to hire somebody that has a background in sewing

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disinformation and at.

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Speaker 2: Least let me play devil's advocate to this. Maybe they

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were looking for somebody who could recognize deception and miss

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in disinformation, not that they wanted you to practice it,

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just you know, to be fair, sure, yeah, I don't

329
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think that's the case personally, but just you know, I mean,

330
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you know, I mean one of the things I run

331
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around screaming all the time is it'll always make sure

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you offer the alternative explanation and all options should be

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on the table. So to me, that just occurred to

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me that you know, maybe it was not about them

335
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wanting you to be such a thing, but they were

336
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looking for somebody who could recognize such a thing.

337
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Speaker 1: Of course. Yeah, And that was actually one of my

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00:22:14,799 --> 00:22:17,279
very first things that I thought, and I spoke to

339
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somebody who was a Pentagon program manager who actually used

340
00:22:21,559 --> 00:22:25,200
deception operations in a SAP that this individual ran, and

341
00:22:26,279 --> 00:22:30,200
he looked at it and he's like, yeah, they were

342
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:32,559
not altruistic reasons. But it is a fair point that

343
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:36,519
you bring up. But it leads to this. Let's you know,

344
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if you back up and you look at all of

345
00:22:38,279 --> 00:22:43,279
the confusing messaging out of ARROW and what former era

346
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:47,279
leadership has said once they've exited, it leads me to

347
00:22:47,319 --> 00:22:51,359
this question, can we trust the government to be transparent

348
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:55,200
on UAP or do we need to take things into

349
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our own hands.

350
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Speaker 2: Well, I think after eighty years somebody should have learned

351
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a less and and you know, I think we're ever

352
00:23:03,039 --> 00:23:07,359
hopeful and I think that, you know, let's put it

353
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:12,599
this way, maybe maybe this sounds so conspiratorial. Maybe it's

354
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:20,440
allowed to be so near as an opportunity and then

355
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:27,160
snatched away as a way to demoralize you know, you know,

356
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:32,799
I don't know, I I you know, I just don't know.

357
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But yeah, it comes back again and again to this

358
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issue of when I don't get let's say what I

359
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:52,000
want scientifically, at least out of the techniques that are

360
00:23:52,039 --> 00:23:55,759
available to me. Today I invent a way around it.

361
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And so I think you have seen any of a

362
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:06,480
number of organizations pop up with credible funding and credible

363
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:11,319
abilities to go out and do the research themselves. I

364
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:13,880
actually wanted to reach out to somebody who has been

365
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:17,880
posting quite a bit and get his permission to mention him,

366
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but since I forgot to do that, I won't. But

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00:24:21,799 --> 00:24:25,559
you know, lots of just interesting videos that are popping

368
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:29,000
up from credible people. And certainly there's the work of

369
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Abby Lobe and the Galileo project that probably is the

370
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:41,759
most extensive and properly run academic effort that I've seen,

371
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almost all run through a volunteer operation within and of

372
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course the instruments is set are are bought by by

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charitable donation, and it's considerable amount of money and effort,

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and so you know, I think we just plug along.

375
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:07,079
But then there's Beautris right who you know, she didn't

376
00:25:07,079 --> 00:25:10,000
need to invent anything. She went back to data that

377
00:25:10,039 --> 00:25:14,599
had already been collected and showed that there was something

378
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:19,880
interesting there, there's evidence, and so you know that's something

379
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:25,160
you can't scrub. Now you can question whether the statistics

380
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:29,480
are sufficient to state anything, or whether they are alternative explanations.

381
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But she got it done right. She published it in

382
00:25:33,759 --> 00:25:38,279
a peer reviewed Nature journal. Wasn't in Nature, it was

383
00:25:38,319 --> 00:25:41,599
in one of the one of the many little family

384
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:46,799
of journals that are all quite credible. And then there's,

385
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:51,880
of course, there's the work we did with Jacques, there's

386
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:57,240
work of Robert Powell and Matt. I always say his

387
00:25:57,319 --> 00:26:05,240
name ram Matt Sigdallas, and I apologize. Matt. He admitted

388
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:07,400
to me that lots of people do his spell his

389
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:10,640
name wrong. We had a conversation just the other week.

390
00:26:11,559 --> 00:26:15,720
You know, they've published papers. Kevin Nuth has published peer

391
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,839
reviewed papers. So this, this notion that you can't get

392
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:23,039
it into a peer reviewed journal is just wrong, right you.

393
00:26:24,079 --> 00:26:27,240
It's always about the framing. I mean, I published in Science,

394
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:31,039
Nature celled at least in my area. You know, of biology,

395
00:26:31,079 --> 00:26:37,200
those of the those the holy trinity that people aim for.

396
00:26:38,519 --> 00:26:45,680
And it's always about the framing. And because it needs

397
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:50,079
to tell a story, it needs to be steeped in

398
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:53,359
the kinds of methodologies that are acceptable in the field

399
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:57,519
at the time, and it needs to move the field forward,

400
00:26:57,559 --> 00:26:59,960
either because you're showing a new method or it's a

401
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:04,880
principle that you're teaching, or it's an instance of a

402
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:08,160
principle at least in biology. So it's sort of like,

403
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:12,000
this is how this particular kind nace works, or this

404
00:27:12,039 --> 00:27:16,240
is how kinaces work globally, or this is how now

405
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:24,759
more recently, circular RNA is important in cancer, or think extravasomes,

406
00:27:24,799 --> 00:27:27,880
things that are basically secreted themselves, things that are all

407
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:31,519
that you can see. The Nobel Prize is coming from

408
00:27:31,519 --> 00:27:35,319
this kind of work because somebody noticed data off the

409
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:40,079
curve and it was evidence that something interesting was going on.

410
00:27:41,079 --> 00:27:45,359
And so to me, that's you know, it's it's like, okay,

411
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:50,119
so let's refocus constantly. You're always having to refocus. Let's

412
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,480
refocus on what is the data that can be collected,

413
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:58,279
what are the methods statistical and otherwise that we should

414
00:27:58,279 --> 00:28:03,920
be using to collate anecdotes. And you know, probably at

415
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:07,240
least most of the feedback I've gotten from that's called

416
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:14,599
mainstream statisticians is that the Bayesian approach. The Bayesian approach

417
00:28:15,759 --> 00:28:17,920
is the is the right way, which is to use

418
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:22,279
priors and et cetera. I mean, I published a paper

419
00:28:22,319 --> 00:28:26,680
in Science using Bayesian inference for signaling diagrams. It was

420
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:29,480
a full article in Science years ago. So it's like

421
00:28:29,599 --> 00:28:33,400
I know of what I speak, and so I've never

422
00:28:33,559 --> 00:28:37,279
I had never thought of using it, but this colleague said, hey,

423
00:28:37,319 --> 00:28:41,599
I could, I could do this. So I think there

424
00:28:41,599 --> 00:28:44,319
are ways to do it. But again, it needs money.

425
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:49,359
So if Arrow wants to give me money to hire

426
00:28:49,359 --> 00:28:53,640
a couple of statisticians to look at the databases that

427
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,599
are already out there, as long as I'm allowed to

428
00:28:56,599 --> 00:28:57,559
publish it, I take it.

429
00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:01,759
Speaker 1: Sure. Do you think let's say that we do not

430
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:06,680
have government disclosure, but let's say AVI finds something or

431
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:12,400
Soul Foundation finds something. Do you think that the world

432
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,759
will believe it if it's not coming from the White House,

433
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:17,640
whatever that discovery might be.

434
00:29:19,519 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 2: I mean sure, I mean it's you know, nobody disbelieved

435
00:29:26,359 --> 00:29:33,720
Beatrice's paper. They might quibble with the you know, interpretation

436
00:29:34,599 --> 00:29:39,480
or some of the statistical analysis around nuclear weapons use,

437
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:45,279
you know, but none of the quibbles I heard were

438
00:29:45,279 --> 00:29:49,240
statistically sound, and Beatrice was able to bat them away

439
00:29:49,359 --> 00:29:54,319
quite effectively. Did it change the narrative that much? No,

440
00:29:55,519 --> 00:30:02,559
But it's yet another cornerstone put in place that what

441
00:30:02,599 --> 00:30:05,960
it does is it brings in other people. You know,

442
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:09,000
there are a couple of big time astronomers who were,

443
00:30:09,759 --> 00:30:14,279
let's just say, serious skeptics, not pseudo skeptics, serious skeptics

444
00:30:14,599 --> 00:30:18,079
who actually came out publicly and said, Wow, this is interesting.

445
00:30:18,559 --> 00:30:20,799
And that's all I've ever wanted, is just as I

446
00:30:20,839 --> 00:30:23,559
always say, I just want another scientist to say the

447
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:26,519
data is interesting. Right. It doesn't mean that they're gonna

448
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:30,599
follow up on it, but at least if I frame

449
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:37,759
it as evidence for something, then it's then that's a

450
00:30:37,759 --> 00:30:39,640
step in the right direction. So to say that there,

451
00:30:39,799 --> 00:30:42,319
let's go back to arrow that there is no credible

452
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:46,960
evidence for extraterrestrials, I mean that just flies in the

453
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:51,680
face of their own results, right, right, there's no evidence

454
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:56,839
that proves it conclusively, at least what they've let us know.

455
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:01,640
But they're absolutely wrong in the terminology that they used.

456
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:04,960
And you know, if that were a paper that they

457
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:09,160
had submitted that they dare would submit to a journal,

458
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:11,839
it would be it wouldn't even make it past the

459
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,599
editor's desk. It wouldn't even make it past the editor's

460
00:31:14,599 --> 00:31:20,160
assistance desk. Okay, so you know, come on, guys, yeah,

461
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:21,880
step up exactly.

462
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:24,799
Speaker 1: So we're gonna take a little bit of a break here,

463
00:31:24,839 --> 00:31:27,519
so we'll get back to doctor Nolan here in a second.

464
00:31:27,559 --> 00:31:30,240
But folks, over half of you watching right now are

465
00:31:30,279 --> 00:31:34,400
not subscribers, so please hit the subscribe button and thumbs

466
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:36,720
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467
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:40,119
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00:31:41,079 --> 00:31:43,759
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469
00:31:44,119 --> 00:31:46,960
And we do not have sponsors, so we are completely

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reliant on all of you at home to pay for

471
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:51,920
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00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:56,119
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Forward Slash the Good Trouble Show. Also super chats are,

474
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,559
and I've been seeing here we've had lots of generous,

475
00:32:03,599 --> 00:32:07,000
generous donations for the super chats. All of that financial

476
00:32:07,039 --> 00:32:11,039
support allows us to bring you great guests like we

477
00:32:11,119 --> 00:32:14,559
have today with this gentleman, doctor Gary Nolan, who we're

478
00:32:14,759 --> 00:32:17,079
so happy to be here and help us kick off

479
00:32:17,319 --> 00:32:21,279
twenty twenty six. Now. I don't know about everyone at

480
00:32:21,319 --> 00:32:25,319
home watching, but I've often wondered what doctor Nolan is

481
00:32:25,519 --> 00:32:29,200
like outside of science and UAP, And what better way

482
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,799
to show the audience that than a little little slide

483
00:32:32,799 --> 00:32:35,839
show of some of your photos from back in the day.

484
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:38,119
So what do you say, let's what do you think that?

485
00:32:38,279 --> 00:32:39,079
Are we good to do that?

486
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 2: Go for it? Yeah, go for it?

487
00:32:42,519 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 1: Okay cool? So yeah, so we'll pop some stuff up

488
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,480
and yeah, so what are we what are we looking

489
00:32:48,519 --> 00:32:48,960
at there?

490
00:32:49,839 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 2: Well, that's me and at Cornell in my fraternity room

491
00:32:56,039 --> 00:32:59,440
with a couple of my fraternity brothers at the time.

492
00:33:00,279 --> 00:33:05,839
Uh so, yeah, the beard, I actually I actually lost

493
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:08,920
the beard for quite a while, okay, and then I

494
00:33:10,359 --> 00:33:14,640
regrew it some time later. All right, that was actually

495
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:15,359
my room.

496
00:33:15,839 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 1: Oh so there we have the beardless Gary Nolan.

497
00:33:19,839 --> 00:33:22,799
Speaker 2: Right, So that's me. I don't know when it was

498
00:33:23,079 --> 00:33:27,279
at Stanford as a grad student. Where was I trying

499
00:33:27,279 --> 00:33:30,759
to look at the back? I don't know where I was.

500
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:33,920
I always had that smirk on my face.

501
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:36,279
Speaker 1: So that's what we love about you.

502
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:37,279
Speaker 2: All right.

503
00:33:37,559 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 1: Well that's uh, you quite dapper there.

504
00:33:41,319 --> 00:33:47,079
Speaker 2: So that was actually at Rockefeller University. Uh so, my boss,

505
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:51,119
David Baltimore, had been at MIT when I first joined

506
00:33:51,119 --> 00:33:56,279
his lab, and then we moved to Rockefeller when he

507
00:33:56,319 --> 00:33:59,039
became the president of Rockefeller University. He later became the

508
00:33:59,079 --> 00:34:06,279
president of Caltech uh University and uh this was a

509
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:11,760
party at at his house. So it was pretty it

510
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:15,000
was pretty fund I have a funny. I have a funny,

511
00:34:15,599 --> 00:34:20,000
quick story to tell. So David was amazing, I mean,

512
00:34:21,159 --> 00:34:23,719
you know, truly one of the most amazing sciences I've

513
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:29,519
ever known, and such a kind and gentle man. Brilliant,

514
00:34:29,599 --> 00:34:34,079
absolutely brilliant, and he had multiple projects in the lab.

515
00:34:34,119 --> 00:34:38,719
He had thirty post docs, uh that you know, focused

516
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:44,320
on his various projects. And so for his birthday, I

517
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:48,119
went down to the village in New York City because

518
00:34:48,119 --> 00:34:56,039
this was in Rockefeller, and I I bought a cat

519
00:34:56,079 --> 00:35:00,440
of nine tales, you know, from a from a love store,

520
00:35:01,639 --> 00:35:03,400
and I put the names of each of the nine

521
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:08,000
projects on the end of it and with a little tag.

522
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:11,440
And I was really worried about what he would think

523
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:13,239
about that giving it to him as a gift for

524
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:16,360
his birthday. But he just laughed out loud and he said,

525
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:17,800
I'm putting this next to my nobel.

526
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,239
Speaker 1: I love that. Okay, let's let's oh, Actually I want

527
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:25,119
to ask you, did you tie that bow tie or

528
00:35:25,199 --> 00:35:25,920
was that a clip on?

529
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:27,079
Speaker 2: No? I tied that.

530
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:31,599
Speaker 1: No, I learned, how I certainly do not. My hat

531
00:35:31,679 --> 00:35:35,840
is off to you for that Okay, so this is what.

532
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:40,840
Speaker 2: This is back to Cornell. That's rotzy. Uh that's me

533
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:44,039
in the back far. Yeah, that's me. I'm the right

534
00:35:44,639 --> 00:35:45,360
on the right there.

535
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, amazing, Okay, uh doing a little collegial a little

536
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:52,400
reading there in college.

537
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:57,239
Speaker 2: This is actually MIT. This was when we were at MIT,

538
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:02,559
and that was my that was my part. I was

539
00:36:02,599 --> 00:36:05,880
actually I think I recognized that book. I think that's

540
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:09,039
a I have to go back and look. I think

541
00:36:09,159 --> 00:36:12,599
I still have it. Nothing to do with UAP. I

542
00:36:12,639 --> 00:36:13,679
think it had to do with evolution.

543
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 1: Okay, anyway, all right, let's say that's what the Cornell.

544
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 2: Cornell So that was me. That was me, like removing

545
00:36:24,039 --> 00:36:26,679
the least the beard and having a that was my

546
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:29,280
porn stash days.

547
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,559
Speaker 1: All right, uh oh, what are we in the eighties

548
00:36:32,639 --> 00:36:34,280
or not? No, probably nineties there, right.

549
00:36:34,519 --> 00:36:39,039
Speaker 2: This is this is us I think late grad school

550
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:41,199
is that. This is at my parents' house.

551
00:36:41,639 --> 00:36:45,039
Speaker 1: Ah, okay, well that's definitely nineties, I'd.

552
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:50,199
Speaker 2: Say, yeah, that's that's uh. Yeah, that's me at a

553
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:53,199
friend's wedding in Hawaii. And actually the guy on the

554
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:55,599
left was my one of my best friends in college.

555
00:36:56,199 --> 00:36:58,480
He was not at Cornell. He was up over at

556
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,400
Ithaca and that was his girlfriend there.

557
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:05,239
Speaker 1: So, wow, you found a you you found proof.

558
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:09,679
Speaker 2: I finally found one. Yeah, there was a there was

559
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:14,440
a small cancer meeting in upstate here in Marine at

560
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:19,320
a winery. And uh, this was an art exhibit that

561
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:24,719
the winery owner had, you know, next to the drinking room,

562
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:28,159
and so of course I had to have a picture

563
00:37:28,199 --> 00:37:31,320
of it with more in it. I thought it was

564
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:32,360
I thought it was hilarious.

565
00:37:32,519 --> 00:37:35,400
Speaker 1: All right. Now you were working for the city animal

566
00:37:35,679 --> 00:37:38,360
control there, I see, Were you like a dog catcher?

567
00:37:38,559 --> 00:37:39,480
Is that what was going on?

568
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:44,239
Speaker 2: That's a big party on a ship that was a

569
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:48,800
it was a gay cruise. I'm quite openly out. And

570
00:37:49,079 --> 00:37:51,360
that was meet with a bunch of friends and the

571
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:55,559
evening was the jungle and so we were supposedly animal control.

572
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:58,800
I had somewhere lost my hat, Sarah, I didn't have

573
00:37:58,880 --> 00:37:59,920
my animal control hat.

574
00:38:00,079 --> 00:38:02,199
Speaker 1: Did Did you have a dog catcher net with you?

575
00:38:02,599 --> 00:38:05,119
Speaker 2: We did actually have nets for a while, but they

576
00:38:05,119 --> 00:38:08,519
were just a little too cumbersome on the dance floor.

577
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,079
That's me at another party. This one was actually out

578
00:38:13,079 --> 00:38:16,800
of the Mediterranean. The first one was in the Caribbean.

579
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:20,960
That's me at another on another ship at a party

580
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:24,320
with actually the same group of friends. We traveled together

581
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:25,599
quite a bit. It was a lot of fun.

582
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 1: I love that. And who is that a handsome man

583
00:38:29,039 --> 00:38:29,519
with you there?

584
00:38:30,519 --> 00:38:36,400
Speaker 2: That's my husband Tim. And this was actually at the hotel,

585
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:41,880
the Royal Stockholm Hotel, for the Nobel ceremony for my

586
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:45,320
friend Jim Allison. And this was one of the pre

587
00:38:46,599 --> 00:38:49,800
Nobel parties. We were getting ready to go out to

588
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:55,159
the actual parties themselves required full on tucks. There was

589
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:58,119
there was an after party. Uh. We weren't allowed to

590
00:38:58,159 --> 00:39:00,840
go to the to the big part already with the

591
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:05,360
King and Queen. That was just for immediate family. But

592
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:09,519
Jim had invited about one hundred guests, which was more

593
00:39:09,559 --> 00:39:13,519
than wybody else had invited because he's so loved in

594
00:39:13,559 --> 00:39:19,320
the community. And so anyway, that was that. Uh, that's me.

595
00:39:19,519 --> 00:39:23,800
In Antarctica, we had climbed up a small glacier. Uh.

596
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:28,880
This was Tim and I uh and uh below was

597
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:33,199
absolutely gorgeous and we later kayaked around it and you

598
00:39:33,199 --> 00:39:35,480
can see in the background some of the some of

599
00:39:35,519 --> 00:39:38,679
the glaciers. Yeah, and they were constantly what they call

600
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:45,000
calving off into the water and uh. In the they

601
00:39:45,159 --> 00:39:49,239
warned as many times, don't get close to the glacier

602
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:52,760
sides because you might find yourself, you know, under a

603
00:39:54,079 --> 00:39:56,360
wall of ice or the or the wave.

604
00:39:57,199 --> 00:40:00,679
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, both both wouldn't be good. H Uh. That

605
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:03,039
is a fancy looking machine. What is that?

606
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:06,159
Speaker 2: Ah, that's the site off. That was one of the

607
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:17,000
companies that we eventually sold actually for a modest fee. Wow,

608
00:40:17,159 --> 00:40:21,480
all right, And it was co developed with this guy

609
00:40:21,519 --> 00:40:25,280
at the University of Toronto, Scott Tanner and a few others.

610
00:40:26,199 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 1: That that's probably about the size of Arrow's budget. I'm

611
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:36,639
imagining monthly to hire, to hire disinformers, Yeah, exactly. Yeah,

612
00:40:36,679 --> 00:40:39,119
Hey I'm I'm I don't come cheap, that's for sure.

613
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:45,440
Speaker 2: But this instrument was an outgrowth of really work that

614
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:49,000
I had done in Lennon Lee Herzenberg's lab. They had

615
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:51,800
they had invented let's call it the precursor to this

616
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:55,639
instrument that had already revolutionized I meanology at a level.

617
00:40:56,039 --> 00:40:59,639
It had limitations in the numbers of parameters that it

618
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:04,679
could measure at a time, and this instrument allowed us

619
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:10,119
to leap forward in terms of the numbers of parameters.

620
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:13,960
And so the work that came from this we eventually

621
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:18,119
published in Science, and also along it brought in so

622
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:21,159
much data that we had to develop whole new algorithms

623
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:25,480
to what's called de dimensionalize high parameter high dimensional data

624
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:31,719
into something that was, you know, mortally understandable. And so

625
00:41:32,519 --> 00:41:36,519
it led to something called pseudo time and novel kinds

626
00:41:36,559 --> 00:41:41,199
of clustering techniques that I mostly worked with with a

627
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:44,559
colleague by the name of Donna Pierre, who is the

628
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:48,280
head of bioinformatics. Now it's slung kettering. She had been

629
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:52,079
in George Church's lab. If anybody knows him, George is

630
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:57,440
a colleague. I don't see him often, but he has

631
00:41:57,599 --> 00:42:01,719
started more companies than anybody I know. But one of

632
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:09,400
them is let's let's resurrect the Siberian mammoth mmm, right,

633
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:14,119
and and other animals. So he's he's quite a visionary.

634
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:18,760
But just Donna had had trained with him, and she's again,

635
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:20,239
she's just an extraordinary woman.

636
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:24,519
Speaker 1: Okay, well, just make sure you rewatch Jurassic Park. Things

637
00:42:24,519 --> 00:42:27,880
didn't go too well. Yeah that all right. Let's see,

638
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:31,079
this is what a death ray that you're working on there.

639
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:32,360
This is.

640
00:42:34,119 --> 00:42:39,199
Speaker 2: Let's call it the next generation of UH, an imaging

641
00:42:39,199 --> 00:42:42,639
device that had been developed by two former post docs

642
00:42:42,639 --> 00:42:45,960
in my lab, Sean Bendel and Mike Angelo.

643
00:42:46,639 --> 00:42:46,760
Speaker 1: Uh.

644
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:49,679
Speaker 2: They had we had published the first version of it,

645
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:53,239
let's say in UH, I think it was nature medicine.

646
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:56,800
And then when they left my lab and started their

647
00:42:56,840 --> 00:43:02,320
own labs at Stanford independent of mine, UH, they built

648
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:09,480
this as a way to study tumors at the using

649
00:43:09,519 --> 00:43:11,800
the same kind of technology of that as that orange

650
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:16,159
thing that that you just saw, using metal tagged isotopes

651
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:20,880
not radioactive, but sorry, metal tagged antibodies. So we developed

652
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:25,280
a chemistry that allowed us to attachment to antibodies. Antibodies

653
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:29,599
recognized the proteins or and or rna. And they had

654
00:43:29,639 --> 00:43:34,000
this bright idea that you know, rather than shooting the

655
00:43:34,039 --> 00:43:37,440
cells one at a time into a servy five hundred

656
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:40,360
degree kelvin flame, that they would shoot a beam of

657
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:45,639
ions at the sample to read tumors. And so this

658
00:43:46,119 --> 00:43:48,280
was the start of let's call it the tumor immunology

659
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:50,960
solid state work that my lab had done. So when

660
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:53,960
people say Gary doesn't know anything about metals and isotopes

661
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:57,199
and how to do with them, okay, well there you.

662
00:43:57,159 --> 00:44:00,519
Speaker 1: Go, sure you go, yeah, and you do clearly understand

663
00:44:00,519 --> 00:44:02,559
the scientific method, I understand.

664
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:07,119
Speaker 2: I think. Yeah, I kind of think more of course

665
00:44:07,639 --> 00:44:08,440
from certain people.

666
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:12,400
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, that's right. Okay, let's see, got one more

667
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:14,960
picture here? What the fuck is that?

668
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:19,599
Speaker 2: Oh? God, friend, were you in g in San Francisco?

669
00:44:23,199 --> 00:44:29,719
Where did you get that one? So that was you know,

670
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:32,840
we were about to go swimming? That was in San

671
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:35,159
Francisco Bay. I wish I still looked like that.

672
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:40,199
Speaker 1: I certainly don't. And let's see, Uh, last one, I

673
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:43,199
think I love this shirt. May not be as normal

674
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:44,519
as I first appear.

675
00:44:45,519 --> 00:44:49,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was probably Let's see, that was the house

676
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:54,199
I'd already gotten tenure. I was up in San Francisco.

677
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:55,760
That was my house in San Francisco.

678
00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:59,880
Speaker 1: Love that. Yeah, Well, anyway, I appreciate you. Uh, let's

679
00:45:00,199 --> 00:45:02,639
here go back to the right right thing. I appreciate

680
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:05,480
you showing these these photos. So I want to talk

681
00:45:05,559 --> 00:45:09,440
a bit about the whole disinformation thing like with you said,

682
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:13,599
the Wall Street Journal reached out to you, uh, and

683
00:45:13,599 --> 00:45:16,400
and is what do we do to fight that kind

684
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:19,960
of stuff? These these mainstream media articles that are clearly

685
00:45:20,519 --> 00:45:25,760
meant to debunk and discourage Congress from looking into UAP.

686
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:29,159
Speaker 2: Well, I think the first thing you do is look

687
00:45:29,199 --> 00:45:33,920
at the history of the writer. If they have no history,

688
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:38,920
then maybe you talk to them, but you do try

689
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:40,880
to get them to tell you what it is that

690
00:45:41,039 --> 00:45:43,440
the article is going to be about. But one of

691
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:45,199
the things I found is that they can tell you

692
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:48,239
whatever they want, but then they'll they'll end up doing

693
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:52,679
whatever they want with what you say. Uh. And what

694
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:55,280
you say is not always context in the way that

695
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:59,920
you meant it. I mean I've been recontext recontexted many

696
00:46:00,199 --> 00:46:05,760
many times. You know. So when when President Trump says

697
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:10,440
fake news, I understand what he means, uh, And I

698
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:15,079
thoroughly agree with when he says that that you know

699
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:21,039
that you know that information can be slanted, and so

700
00:46:21,199 --> 00:46:26,239
it's you know, mainstream media is looking for opinions. They're

701
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:31,280
unlike in the sciences, where you're where your opinion at

702
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:34,840
the end of the article is about what you think

703
00:46:35,079 --> 00:46:39,800
the data means still has to be supported by the data,

704
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:44,840
which has to have the methods. And so unfortunately that's

705
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:48,639
just not how the news operates. And I don't know

706
00:46:48,679 --> 00:46:53,440
if we're ever going to get around that. So at

707
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:58,679
this point, my you know, my leanings or just don't

708
00:46:58,679 --> 00:47:01,800
talk to them, right, you know, I don't see what

709
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:05,360
the I don't see what any additional value it is

710
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:14,559
to put another piece out about this matter, when all

711
00:47:14,599 --> 00:47:18,519
that you're going to do is give somebody else who

712
00:47:18,559 --> 00:47:22,679
doesn't have any credibility equal standing as yourself because they're

713
00:47:22,679 --> 00:47:25,800
mentioned in the article. So I can say blah blah blah,

714
00:47:26,159 --> 00:47:27,840
you know, in the Wall Street Journal, and then and

715
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:35,320
then they'll say, but this garage experimenter says otherwise.

716
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:39,519
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, And I want to talk about that now.

717
00:47:39,599 --> 00:47:42,559
So I understand you were contacted by the folks at

718
00:47:42,679 --> 00:47:47,000
CBS News regarding this appearance on the program forty eight hours.

719
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:50,119
Tell us a bit about what happened with that.

720
00:47:51,039 --> 00:47:53,320
Speaker 2: Well, So, if I was intrigued at the beginning, because

721
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:57,599
they were, she was very nice in her original ask

722
00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:00,639
in the email. So I called them up and I said, well,

723
00:48:00,639 --> 00:48:05,280
what's this about? And they said, well, we want to

724
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:07,280
I mean, they said we want to have a debate.

725
00:48:08,679 --> 00:48:13,039
And my red flags went up, and I said a

726
00:48:13,079 --> 00:48:18,079
debate about what? And he said about UAP And I said,

727
00:48:18,119 --> 00:48:22,199
well what about them? And he says, you know, whether

728
00:48:22,199 --> 00:48:26,400
they're well you know, I said, and with whom? And

729
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:29,719
she said, Nick West? And I'm like, are you go

730
00:48:30,039 --> 00:48:35,719
come on, it's I mean no, I said right away,

731
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:39,119
and she said, oh, he said you'd say that. He said, well, well,

732
00:48:39,119 --> 00:48:40,599
I said, at least he's right about something.

733
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:41,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, right.

734
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:49,599
Speaker 2: So you know, look, I I appreciate I am a skeptic.

735
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:55,199
I don't need to sit across from a debunker who

736
00:48:55,199 --> 00:48:58,159
claims to be a skeptic, you know. I mean, let's

737
00:48:58,199 --> 00:49:01,400
go back a little bit, almost almost fifteen years now,

738
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:05,599
when it came when the Auto Kamma Mummy thing came

739
00:49:05,639 --> 00:49:09,440
out and people said that I had debunked it as

740
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:15,199
an alien. That actually got me mad because I didn't

741
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:21,519
enter the conversation with Stephen's career to purposefully debunk anything.

742
00:49:22,559 --> 00:49:25,320
I entered it to understand it. And I even remember

743
00:49:25,599 --> 00:49:29,000
a couple of times driving around in the car when

744
00:49:29,159 --> 00:49:31,360
some of the initial data was coming in, I didn't

745
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:35,239
understand what the genetic sequences meant, thinking this might be real.

746
00:49:37,199 --> 00:49:40,880
But then you know, the scientists in the back of

747
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:42,599
my head said you better go check this out before

748
00:49:42,599 --> 00:49:46,840
you say anything. Of course, I sent emails updating Stephen

749
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:50,880
as to where my thought process was, you know, so

750
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:54,199
I went and got the necessary experts, which is what

751
00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:57,360
you do as a scientist. We're not all good at everything.

752
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:02,119
So you bring in additional people who said, well, now

753
00:50:02,159 --> 00:50:06,400
here's the reason why this can't be you know, unassignable

754
00:50:06,559 --> 00:50:09,880
or is like novels, because it's because the data is

755
00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:14,559
you know, collected from degraded material, and this and this

756
00:50:14,599 --> 00:50:17,360
and this can happen, and you need this many overreads

757
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:19,840
to be able to be sure, et cetera, et cetera.

758
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:23,840
And so, you know, the when the paper finally came

759
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:26,400
out and people were calling me saying I was a debunker,

760
00:50:27,119 --> 00:50:30,639
it actually angered me because I didn't set out to

761
00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:34,920
prove or disprove anything. I would love if somebody were

762
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:37,960
to go back and redo it and say, hey, Gary,

763
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:40,800
you're wrong, here's what you missed. I would love that.

764
00:50:41,639 --> 00:50:48,360
But for now, you know, for Stanford professors, fifteen ish

765
00:50:50,199 --> 00:50:57,639
post docs and grad students, a very large diagnostics company,

766
00:50:57,679 --> 00:51:01,320
Roche Diagnostics, to whom I had sold the genomics technology

767
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:05,119
that allowed to do some of the analysis, and they

768
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:09,880
became Rocha's you know, the core bioinformatics team had all

769
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:14,880
worked on it together and you know, put our best

770
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:17,199
efforts with the data that we had and the material

771
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:20,480
that we had, and came to a reason and just

772
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:22,239
basically put the data out. And if you read the

773
00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:26,079
paper you read it's full of caveats. I mean, but

774
00:51:26,119 --> 00:51:29,639
the but what we could say was there's nothing that

775
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:32,360
says that this is anything other than human, and here

776
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:35,679
are some mutations that might explain how it looks what

777
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:40,039
it looks like. End of story. But of course, you

778
00:51:40,079 --> 00:51:44,880
know the newspapers were all Stanford Scientists sequences, alien baby.

779
00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:50,239
Speaker 1: Of course, yeah, exactly. So so you turned down this

780
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:53,199
CBS thing. And I think there's probably a very high

781
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:56,599
probability that Mick West is watching this show right now.

782
00:51:56,639 --> 00:51:57,519
He was in the trash.

783
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:00,960
Speaker 2: I wish you well, Mick finds on one well, I

784
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:03,800
have said, why don't you go on with Susan Gerbage

785
00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:07,559
and you can have a conversation with Susan about all

786
00:52:07,599 --> 00:52:12,800
the wiki articles that you've edited or that she edits

787
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:15,599
or that Gorilla skeptics edit and why they do it.

788
00:52:16,159 --> 00:52:19,119
And I mean that would be a fascinating I would

789
00:52:19,199 --> 00:52:19,760
watch that.

790
00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:23,719
Speaker 1: Of course. But are there any conditions that you would

791
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:27,440
debate Micwest on stage? If Mix watching right now and

792
00:52:27,519 --> 00:52:31,360
you were to talk to Mic, what would the deal

793
00:52:31,519 --> 00:52:33,599
look like? What would you say Mick, you got to

794
00:52:33,639 --> 00:52:36,239
do this. For me to do this thing.

795
00:52:36,679 --> 00:52:40,239
Speaker 2: Well, I think I would have to have the Gorilla

796
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:47,400
skeptics delete all of their editing accounts, openly admit what

797
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:51,480
they've been doing, admit who their funders are. Mick should

798
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:56,559
admit who his hunters are exactly. I mean, they have

799
00:52:56,599 --> 00:53:01,320
a pretty decent budget. Maybe they should donate to a

800
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:06,639
whistleblower's charity, you know, a significant amount, one or two million,

801
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:14,320
I think would be would be good. Publish a peer

802
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:20,039
reviewed paper in a Tier one journal on any of

803
00:53:20,079 --> 00:53:23,280
the work that you've done gimbal M. You suppose it's

804
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:25,760
done a lot of work on gimbal supposedly. I think

805
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:28,360
Marrik should be I think Merrick should be the the

806
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:33,280
one of the reviewers. Publish. Publish it with Merreck, see

807
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:37,119
if you could put a paper together with him, collaborate

808
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:41,760
rather than collude against. I mean, I think that's what

809
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:43,920
it is. I mean, you know, I mean it's funny

810
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:47,360
because I I basically put this in a Twitter post

811
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:50,719
somewhere about how I think the whole Gorilla Skeptics thing

812
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:55,920
is an ethical u and made a number of other

813
00:53:56,079 --> 00:53:59,800
sort of statements about what I thought would be appropriate,

814
00:54:02,119 --> 00:54:06,599
and Nick did ask in the thread somewhere, well, I'll

815
00:54:06,599 --> 00:54:08,639
have a conversation with you, I said, because I only

816
00:54:08,639 --> 00:54:11,480
have a conversation. But he conveniently left out all the

817
00:54:11,519 --> 00:54:15,239
other terms that I done, which seems to be his

818
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:18,760
m O. Yes, which is I'm going to pick the

819
00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:20,960
thing that I want to talk about, but I'm going

820
00:54:21,039 --> 00:54:26,239
to forget about all the data that is necessary for

821
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:34,320
the contextualization. And so it's just not someone. Whether he's

822
00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:36,880
doing it purposefully or not, it just doesn't matter. It's

823
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:42,639
not some I don't need to have a conversation with him.

824
00:54:42,679 --> 00:54:47,320
He needs me. I don't need him, you know. So

825
00:54:48,039 --> 00:54:52,280
they're desperate. It's like why yah to just why don't

826
00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:54,679
you just publish a whole bunch of things that you've

827
00:54:54,679 --> 00:55:01,280
already done, you know, point to rename metabunk.

828
00:55:01,159 --> 00:55:02,840
Speaker 1: You know what would you name it?

829
00:55:05,599 --> 00:55:14,000
Speaker 2: Skeptic's folly? I don't know. I just yes, yeah, you know.

830
00:55:14,119 --> 00:55:18,559
I mean it's it's because the term debunking implies you're

831
00:55:18,599 --> 00:55:24,760
coming to the table with a preordained conclusion. That's not

832
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:28,280
what a skeptic is. I'm my own skeptic. I mean,

833
00:55:28,320 --> 00:55:32,400
I offered the CBS person, I said, put me on

834
00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:37,880
stage with another scientist and we could play Devil's advocate

835
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:40,960
against each other. I'm rather than happy to take the

836
00:55:41,039 --> 00:55:49,599
side of this is all rubbish and and argue that

837
00:55:49,719 --> 00:55:53,719
against somebody who wants to say that the data is real,

838
00:55:54,559 --> 00:55:57,119
because I can do that. I do it every day

839
00:55:57,159 --> 00:55:59,320
in my own lab. I just did it with you

840
00:55:59,559 --> 00:55:59,880
with that.

841
00:56:01,239 --> 00:56:05,280
Speaker 1: You know they're a job post, right is.

842
00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:07,320
Speaker 2: You know I can be my own skeptic. I don't.

843
00:56:08,039 --> 00:56:12,360
I don't need to. People like that can't teach me

844
00:56:13,159 --> 00:56:18,559
how to question my own thought processes.

845
00:56:20,119 --> 00:56:22,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, well he could probably teach you how to make

846
00:56:22,519 --> 00:56:25,760
a pretty bad ass Balsewood model. I'll give it.

847
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:28,360
Speaker 2: I'm sure I love him. I mean, you know, look,

848
00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:32,000
I you know, you know it's it's play acting on Twitter.

849
00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:40,239
I'm glad that there's a voice out there like him, because, frankly,

850
00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:42,960
if I mean, if that's the best there is, then

851
00:56:43,239 --> 00:56:45,400
I think the narrative has changed.

852
00:56:46,159 --> 00:56:49,239
Speaker 1: I completely agree that. Then that goes back to where

853
00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:52,320
we started on the program. So I know we only

854
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:54,599
have you, I think for like fifteen more minutes. We

855
00:56:54,719 --> 00:56:58,440
have a just buttload of questions. I'd like to try

856
00:56:58,440 --> 00:57:00,880
and get through as many as as we can from

857
00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:03,400
the audience. This is from cool guy. Thank you very

858
00:57:03,480 --> 00:57:06,000
much for the super chat. If the NHI would have

859
00:57:06,119 --> 00:57:10,599
monitored alien reproduction vehicles research just like nuts to prevent

860
00:57:10,679 --> 00:57:14,880
blowing up the planet? Is the safety argument against disclosure

861
00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:17,800
and for amnesty really valid?

862
00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:23,440
Speaker 2: It's interesting and I think that one through what the

863
00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:29,559
meaning is? So is the meaning? I mean, I know

864
00:57:29,599 --> 00:57:32,079
the person is not there to answer. This is the

865
00:57:32,519 --> 00:57:36,559
is the meaning that if we have already reverse engineered something,

866
00:57:39,599 --> 00:57:42,440
is the threat narrative still operable?

867
00:57:42,519 --> 00:57:44,920
Speaker 1: Was that what it think? I think that's how I

868
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:45,760
would interpret that.

869
00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:51,519
Speaker 2: Well, I think it's less operable. But just because just

870
00:57:51,559 --> 00:57:53,599
because I figured out what a wheel is and how

871
00:57:53,639 --> 00:57:58,440
to make a bicycle doesn't mean I have you know, ah,

872
00:57:59,679 --> 00:58:06,119
you know, a super duper Honda motorbike, right, I mean

873
00:58:08,239 --> 00:58:13,239
figuring out the basics of something. All it says is

874
00:58:14,039 --> 00:58:16,559
one of the things that I've been talking about openly

875
00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:22,760
is that if there is something here, it is very

876
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:25,079
likely it's been here a very long time. I mean,

877
00:58:25,599 --> 00:58:32,000
you know, because you don't just show up flying around

878
00:58:32,039 --> 00:58:36,679
and stuff like what people allege overnight. You probably developed

879
00:58:36,679 --> 00:58:40,719
it quite a long time ago, right before likely humans

880
00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:47,280
had even crawled out of the caves, and so I

881
00:58:47,320 --> 00:58:54,280
don't think there if something like this is real, I

882
00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:57,039
don't think we're a real threat to them, but they

883
00:58:57,079 --> 00:59:00,639
probably have enough foresight to realize that we might be

884
00:59:00,679 --> 00:59:05,480
a threat to somebody. I mean, you know, let's say

885
00:59:05,639 --> 00:59:10,719
there's another civilization in a star system one hundred or

886
00:59:10,760 --> 00:59:15,760
two hundred light years away that isn't one hundred million

887
00:59:15,840 --> 00:59:18,559
years old, is maybe only a few tens of thousand

888
00:59:18,639 --> 00:59:24,639
years beyond us, But the elders might know that people

889
00:59:24,719 --> 00:59:26,880
like us will soon be able to get one hundred

890
00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:30,079
light years away or two hundred or whatever, and so

891
00:59:30,159 --> 00:59:33,559
we might become a threat to other civilizations that are

892
00:59:33,840 --> 00:59:38,559
perhaps at near parody with us or behind us, and

893
00:59:38,639 --> 00:59:41,199
so maybe they want to keep an eye on us.

894
00:59:41,320 --> 00:59:43,960
I mean, I'm just making stuff up as I go. Yeah,

895
00:59:44,719 --> 00:59:49,000
there's nothing, there's nothing, there's no truth to this. It's

896
00:59:49,159 --> 00:59:54,079
just you have to wargame out these ideas, right and

897
00:59:54,199 --> 00:59:57,079
to try to figure out, well, what might be the reasoning?

898
00:59:57,519 --> 01:00:01,960
I frankly, I frankly don't think even if the government

899
01:00:02,079 --> 01:00:06,320
confirmed that there was that there was something here, that

900
01:00:06,840 --> 01:00:08,719
we would ever know what the true intent is. And

901
01:00:08,719 --> 01:00:11,719
we can barely understand what other humans intents are. Yeah,

902
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:13,639
never mind alien intent.

903
01:00:14,119 --> 01:00:18,000
Speaker 1: Yeah that's yeah, that's true Orange Man, that comes to mind. Okay,

904
01:00:18,039 --> 01:00:20,000
this is from Adam Martinez. Thank you very much for

905
01:00:20,079 --> 01:00:23,519
the super chat. How significant could the data collected by

906
01:00:23,559 --> 01:00:28,320
Skywatcher be to the disclosure movement given your insider knowledge

907
01:00:28,320 --> 01:00:31,400
of their operations and how close are they to releasing

908
01:00:31,440 --> 01:00:32,920
that data?

909
01:00:34,119 --> 01:00:37,039
Speaker 2: I just shouldn't say anything. It's not because there's like

910
01:00:37,079 --> 01:00:44,559
something imminent. I just think that there is some decent

911
01:00:44,840 --> 01:00:48,719
preliminary data. We've learned a lot of things about how

912
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:53,079
data needs to be collected, and that's as really as

913
01:00:53,079 --> 01:00:54,280
far as I'm going.

914
01:00:54,199 --> 01:00:59,239
Speaker 1: To go understood. Okay, all right, next one actually just compliments,

915
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:03,000
not just a compliment. It's from the great science Bob Maguire.

916
01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:06,800
This is a needed interview. Thanks Matt and Gary, Thank

917
01:01:06,840 --> 01:01:11,159
you Bob for the super chat. Let's see here going

918
01:01:11,239 --> 01:01:17,880
back through from gene Sticko. Disclosure won't come from stories

919
01:01:17,960 --> 01:01:22,679
or demands. That will come when we act like organized community,

920
01:01:22,719 --> 01:01:27,400
applying science so publicly and persistently that the government can

921
01:01:27,559 --> 01:01:30,119
no longer ignore that. I think it's a really.

922
01:01:31,599 --> 01:01:35,880
Speaker 2: Exactly I mean, thank you, Yes, that sums it up. Perfectly,

923
01:01:37,079 --> 01:01:41,599
you know. I mean, look, we can't even agree that.

924
01:01:43,639 --> 01:01:45,280
I mean, I don't know if climate change is the

925
01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:48,519
right word or whatever. The climate is changing. The climate

926
01:01:48,559 --> 01:01:53,960
always changes, that's certainly true, whether it's anthropogenic. I mean,

927
01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:57,199
the correlation is certainly there. And we know CO two.

928
01:01:58,880 --> 01:02:04,480
You know, traps heat and there's a clear line going on,

929
01:02:05,119 --> 01:02:08,360
and you know, whether humans did it or not is

930
01:02:08,599 --> 01:02:13,840
irrelevant to the fact that you know something is is happening.

931
01:02:14,360 --> 01:02:17,960
So people just want to get in arguments about that.

932
01:02:18,760 --> 01:02:23,119
So you know, it's and people still think the Earth

933
01:02:23,199 --> 01:02:26,840
is flat. So I don't know what to do about

934
01:02:26,880 --> 01:02:30,320
that except to be certain of your own data and

935
01:02:30,360 --> 01:02:33,480
your own your own proof. I mean, we would like

936
01:02:34,519 --> 01:02:37,559
Daddy and mommy government to come out and validate it.

937
01:02:38,360 --> 01:02:43,519
But if Daddy and mommy government, and I'm not taking

938
01:02:43,599 --> 01:02:49,360
any sides here, I mean I'm recently actually registered now

939
01:02:49,360 --> 01:02:58,280
as an independent, changed my party affiliation. If Daddy and

940
01:02:58,280 --> 01:03:02,079
mommy government are going to change every four years how

941
01:03:02,119 --> 01:03:07,400
they approach the world and how they approach truths, then

942
01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:11,159
waiting for the government to say one thing this administration

943
01:03:12,039 --> 01:03:16,039
is only going to change next administration. I mean, of course,

944
01:03:16,079 --> 01:03:18,400
coming out and saying oh, aliens are real. There's something

945
01:03:18,440 --> 01:03:26,280
you can take that back. But so yeah, I yes,

946
01:03:26,639 --> 01:03:30,079
I think it's just got to come locally. But I

947
01:03:30,079 --> 01:03:34,400
mean again, there's there's an incredible, incredible amount of evidence.

948
01:03:34,559 --> 01:03:37,079
Anybody says there's no evidence, it's just like just doesn't

949
01:03:37,119 --> 01:03:42,960
understand science, right, There's there's not proof that the kind

950
01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:44,360
of But then you have to ask, what is your

951
01:03:44,440 --> 01:03:49,800
standard of prove? You know, I said this last night

952
01:03:49,840 --> 01:03:52,119
on Twitter. I was busy running some AI projects and

953
01:03:52,480 --> 01:03:54,920
while they were running, I was, you know, messing around

954
01:03:54,920 --> 01:04:00,800
on Twitter late into the night. It's you know, it

955
01:04:01,800 --> 01:04:07,440
has met my standard of This is really interesting. It

956
01:04:07,519 --> 01:04:12,480
has not met my standard of proof. But if it

957
01:04:12,599 --> 01:04:16,800
were a research grant and I was writing something about

958
01:04:16,880 --> 01:04:21,360
let's say cancer, I have far less evidence for some

959
01:04:21,400 --> 01:04:25,719
of the things that I do in the grants. Then

960
01:04:25,880 --> 01:04:29,760
the evidence is already sitting out there about UAP. But

961
01:04:29,880 --> 01:04:34,519
because people believe in signaling biology and cancer and all

962
01:04:34,559 --> 01:04:39,079
of the rest, that the preliminary data that I have

963
01:04:39,519 --> 01:04:43,599
fits into the mold of what people already understand about

964
01:04:43,599 --> 01:04:45,679
the system. So they say, Okay, this is a credible idea,

965
01:04:45,760 --> 01:04:50,119
let's go ahead and do it. And so you know,

966
01:04:50,320 --> 01:04:54,719
if anything needs to happen, if it ever does, is

967
01:04:55,159 --> 01:04:59,519
you know, for the NSF or NASA or somebody or

968
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:04,000
an independent foundation of considerable means to come forward and say, hey,

969
01:05:04,079 --> 01:05:07,880
we're going to fund this independently and then hopefully it

970
01:05:07,880 --> 01:05:10,360
would make it to the level of a national laboratory,

971
01:05:11,840 --> 01:05:15,360
you know, where you could have some kind of semi

972
01:05:15,480 --> 01:05:22,639
at least reasonably transparent analysis of you know, either the

973
01:05:22,639 --> 01:05:24,639
flotsam and jetsam that seems to drop off some of

974
01:05:24,679 --> 01:05:30,079
these things that I have access to public materials, or

975
01:05:30,599 --> 01:05:37,719
if somebody could release claimed materials. I mean I've always

976
01:05:37,719 --> 01:05:40,360
I've been very open about this. Sure, it's like, if

977
01:05:40,400 --> 01:05:43,519
there's stuff that's available and there's technology to be learned,

978
01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:47,719
that's what I want. I frankly could almost care less

979
01:05:47,719 --> 01:05:51,000
about what they are and what they are intent. Is

980
01:05:51,079 --> 01:05:56,400
the Brothers of Light or Galactic Love, etc. I mean, sure, great,

981
01:05:56,480 --> 01:05:59,960
if that's the case. I'm interested in what they do.

982
01:06:00,840 --> 01:06:04,760
I'm a technologist, I'm a tinkerer, you know, because I

983
01:06:04,840 --> 01:06:08,159
see it as being able to help mankind. Yes, it

984
01:06:08,199 --> 01:06:11,760
will be used for war, you know, at some level,

985
01:06:11,840 --> 01:06:16,000
or at least used as a defense of course, a threat.

986
01:06:18,440 --> 01:06:25,519
But I'm interested in progress. Yeah, and so I don't

987
01:06:25,639 --> 01:06:29,559
like the idea that progress might be hindered because something

988
01:06:29,800 --> 01:06:30,760
is held back.

989
01:06:31,400 --> 01:06:35,039
Speaker 1: I would completely agree with that. Here's another really interesting

990
01:06:35,119 --> 01:06:40,639
question from Mad s Key twenty five ninety five question

991
01:06:40,760 --> 01:06:45,159
to Gary. Would you support disclosure if the whole truth

992
01:06:45,280 --> 01:06:49,679
would cause immediate havoc around the world? If not, would

993
01:06:49,679 --> 01:06:54,159
you support a partial disclosure that confirms intelligent alien visitors?

994
01:06:54,400 --> 01:06:56,119
So if everything were to go go to hell in

995
01:06:56,159 --> 01:06:57,519
a handbasket.

996
01:06:57,639 --> 01:07:02,239
Speaker 2: I don't want anybody hurt. I just don't want anybody

997
01:07:02,320 --> 01:07:04,960
hurt at all. I mean, that's just the end of

998
01:07:04,960 --> 01:07:11,760
the story. If it meant absolute social disruption, no, now,

999
01:07:12,239 --> 01:07:14,840
I mean I think there's plenty of partial truths that

1000
01:07:15,119 --> 01:07:22,880
society can handle. And so yeah, certainly the latter Okay,

1001
01:07:23,039 --> 01:07:25,840
this is wrong, but how put Off and others were

1002
01:07:25,880 --> 01:07:28,280
on a committee, and the RAND Corporation has put out

1003
01:07:28,800 --> 01:07:34,920
very similar studies, very detailed over the decades, which at

1004
01:07:35,000 --> 01:07:38,400
various points of time, supposedly having had access to the

1005
01:07:38,400 --> 01:07:43,519
real data, have said that whatever is known right now

1006
01:07:44,760 --> 01:07:49,960
shouldn't be let out. So I have to trust I

1007
01:07:50,039 --> 01:07:51,920
despite some of the things I say, I do actually

1008
01:07:51,920 --> 01:07:56,519
trust the government, mostly to do the right thing. I

1009
01:07:56,559 --> 01:08:02,920
have to trust at some level and that decisions are

1010
01:08:02,960 --> 01:08:05,440
being made in the right way. But what I don't

1011
01:08:06,360 --> 01:08:09,079
like is that if there is a decision that it

1012
01:08:09,119 --> 01:08:12,760
shouldn't be released, that people should be hurt to prevent

1013
01:08:13,800 --> 01:08:18,439
the informations. Yeah right, Or like what happened with David

1014
01:08:18,439 --> 01:08:22,399
Grush and having his medical records released by that scoundrel

1015
01:08:22,479 --> 01:08:26,000
of a reporter who was then found out later he

1016
01:08:26,039 --> 01:08:30,439
openly admitted stupidly on a TV show that CIA operatives

1017
01:08:30,439 --> 01:08:35,239
had given him the information. Yeah yeah, and is now

1018
01:08:35,239 --> 01:08:37,319
the subject of a court case.

1019
01:08:37,760 --> 01:08:40,600
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. I hope Obi gets his asked suit off.

1020
01:08:41,039 --> 01:08:46,439
This is another question from Mississippian. Has doctor Gary Nolan

1021
01:08:46,640 --> 01:08:50,680
tried psionics personally?

1022
01:08:50,760 --> 01:08:53,920
Speaker 2: No. I mean I've sat in my backyard sometimes and

1023
01:08:53,920 --> 01:08:56,079
looked in the sky and said, okay, guys, are you

1024
01:08:56,119 --> 01:08:58,319
guys going to show up for me? But I can't

1025
01:08:58,399 --> 01:09:03,279
concentrate more than thirty seconds on that. I mean I did.

1026
01:09:03,319 --> 01:09:06,439
Actually once there was a guy who somebody told me

1027
01:09:06,479 --> 01:09:09,119
about who lived way up here in the Santa Cruz Mountains.

1028
01:09:09,119 --> 01:09:14,359
He used to be a doctor at Stanford who claimed interactions,

1029
01:09:14,359 --> 01:09:17,520
and I drove up to his place, which was way

1030
01:09:17,600 --> 01:09:21,960
up in the woods in the Sequoia Forest, in the

1031
01:09:21,960 --> 01:09:24,680
woods and down his windy road, and we sat in

1032
01:09:24,720 --> 01:09:28,319
his backyard and he claimed that he was interacting with

1033
01:09:28,720 --> 01:09:37,119
something on another place, and you know, we did see

1034
01:09:37,119 --> 01:09:40,520
a couple of things move in strange ways. And I said,

1035
01:09:40,520 --> 01:09:42,600
what are you interacting with? And he said, well, you know,

1036
01:09:42,600 --> 01:09:48,600
I'm interacting with this alien or whatever that lives by

1037
01:09:48,640 --> 01:09:50,680
itself off in a hut. And I said, it sounds

1038
01:09:50,680 --> 01:09:53,079
like you're interacting with yourself. I mean, you live out

1039
01:09:53,119 --> 01:09:56,079
here in the middle of nowhere. So I don't know.

1040
01:09:56,439 --> 01:09:59,640
That was fun, that was interesting, But no, I haven't

1041
01:09:59,640 --> 01:10:04,720
done so I don't. I don't. I've been present when

1042
01:10:04,760 --> 01:10:09,680
people have tried it. I've seen the commotion, but I

1043
01:10:09,720 --> 01:10:14,720
didn't see anything personally. So I just again, I just

1044
01:10:15,399 --> 01:10:18,920
it's kind of going back to what John Mack said,

1045
01:10:19,000 --> 01:10:25,840
is that people experience and or see things that I

1046
01:10:26,600 --> 01:10:29,800
believe that they believe that they experienced or saw it.

1047
01:10:30,319 --> 01:10:33,000
And mean, look, I've also been very open. I saw

1048
01:10:33,039 --> 01:10:35,119
things when I was a kid, I mean, quite clearly,

1049
01:10:36,119 --> 01:10:39,279
and that motivates my conviction. But it's not a proof

1050
01:10:39,279 --> 01:10:40,399
I can hand to somebody else.

1051
01:10:40,960 --> 01:10:42,119
Speaker 1: Right, So.

1052
01:10:44,199 --> 01:10:47,760
Speaker 2: You know, it's just just another story. But you know,

1053
01:10:48,680 --> 01:10:50,720
I know what I saw. Isn't it the title of

1054
01:10:50,760 --> 01:10:54,920
a movie, that one about the the Phoenix Lights?

1055
01:10:55,199 --> 01:10:57,319
Speaker 1: I think, so, yeah, yeah, exactly.

1056
01:10:57,279 --> 01:11:02,720
Speaker 2: I know what I saw, you know, and so maybe,

1057
01:11:02,960 --> 01:11:05,039
you know, maybe that's what's necessary. Maybe they need to

1058
01:11:06,159 --> 01:11:09,880
fly over again and fly over Mick West House and.

1059
01:11:11,079 --> 01:11:15,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, drop drop. A few few didn't.

1060
01:11:15,159 --> 01:11:17,640
Speaker 2: Mix say that he wasn't wasn't part of this thing

1061
01:11:17,680 --> 01:11:23,359
that he he was scared of? Some like was it

1062
01:11:23,439 --> 01:11:24,399
ghosts or something?

1063
01:11:25,119 --> 01:11:30,800
Speaker 1: Yeah? Some I think he had like hallucinations as a crossing. Yeah,

1064
01:11:30,880 --> 01:11:31,560
something's going.

1065
01:11:31,479 --> 01:11:34,680
Speaker 2: On there, Okay, And that's and that's serious, and that's real,

1066
01:11:34,720 --> 01:11:36,600
and I don't discount it, and I don't think that's

1067
01:11:36,640 --> 01:11:40,279
a negative whatsoever, you know. I mean, we all have traumas,

1068
01:11:41,640 --> 01:11:44,239
but I don't think that we should pass the trauma

1069
01:11:44,239 --> 01:11:47,680
on by traumatizing other peoples to make ourselves feel better about.

1070
01:11:48,640 --> 01:11:50,800
I mean, putting somebody else down to make yourself feel

1071
01:11:50,800 --> 01:11:55,920
better is just passing on historical violence.

1072
01:11:55,920 --> 01:12:00,520
Speaker 1: To me, I'm with you on that. Okay, here, just

1073
01:12:00,600 --> 01:12:02,880
a couple more we know, we have this, few more

1074
01:12:02,880 --> 01:12:04,920
minutes with you, Thank you, Matt, Doctor Nolan. This is

1075
01:12:05,159 --> 01:12:09,520
from the guy for Tado. Thank you for the super

1076
01:12:09,640 --> 01:12:15,840
chat question. How can society instigate scientific thinking on the

1077
01:12:15,960 --> 01:12:19,680
layman's level and promote a healthy factual curiosity?

1078
01:12:21,520 --> 01:12:24,880
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I think frankly, one of the best

1079
01:12:25,479 --> 01:12:30,560
data driven books that I've read is Swords and Powell's

1080
01:12:30,560 --> 01:12:36,600
book UFOs and Government. It's just chocol block with data

1081
01:12:36,680 --> 01:12:41,159
and instances. And I've given it what pointed many of

1082
01:12:41,159 --> 01:12:44,399
my colleagues at it and those who've read it, and

1083
01:12:44,399 --> 01:12:46,359
so they've read it as well. I didn't even know

1084
01:12:46,399 --> 01:12:50,399
that this kind of data existed, and so, you know,

1085
01:12:50,840 --> 01:12:54,520
I mean, certainly nobody's going to read you know, it's

1086
01:12:54,560 --> 01:12:58,279
a tome. I mean, it's but it's so well researched

1087
01:12:58,319 --> 01:13:02,520
and so well done. You need sort of a I

1088
01:13:02,520 --> 01:13:04,560
wouldn't I hate to use the thing a chat GPT

1089
01:13:04,800 --> 01:13:11,199
version of it. You need a lighter version of that

1090
01:13:11,199 --> 01:13:17,600
that can be gotten out, that is, you know, more timely. Uh,

1091
01:13:17,640 --> 01:13:19,399
and you can still have all of the all of

1092
01:13:19,439 --> 01:13:21,600
the older stories, but it needs to be sort of

1093
01:13:22,319 --> 01:13:29,199
repackaged into the media expectations of today. And uh, you know,

1094
01:13:29,239 --> 01:13:33,439
but we have some great producers and cinematographers in the

1095
01:13:33,720 --> 01:13:36,760
you know, in the way of Frankly, you know Spielberg

1096
01:13:36,840 --> 01:13:40,239
and his many organizations that do this regularly. I mean

1097
01:13:40,239 --> 01:13:44,239
they're a little bit more entertainment obviously, But then you

1098
01:13:44,239 --> 01:13:49,359
have Dan farras incredible work, James Fox uh and several others.

1099
01:13:49,359 --> 01:13:52,439
And I apologize, I've had been on your things and

1100
01:13:52,479 --> 01:13:55,920
I'm not I'm just terrible at names too. You know,

1101
01:13:55,960 --> 01:13:58,279
I think that we we we have people and it's

1102
01:13:58,319 --> 01:14:02,479
just you just need to have a drum beat. And

1103
01:14:03,520 --> 01:14:09,640
you know, if anything, Dan's movie caught the world by surprise,

1104
01:14:09,720 --> 01:14:12,560
and even Netflix, so you can bet because you live

1105
01:14:12,560 --> 01:14:18,840
in Hollywood, you you know what it's like. Yeah, a

1106
01:14:18,920 --> 01:14:25,760
wind causes clones to happen, and so you know, they

1107
01:14:26,319 --> 01:14:29,560
they know that it sells CBS News, it sells. It's

1108
01:14:29,560 --> 01:14:34,359
why they're called me up. Yeah, no, I can, and

1109
01:14:34,359 --> 01:14:36,039
I wish them well, I really do. I mean, I'm

1110
01:14:36,039 --> 01:14:38,720
not disparaging them at all. I'm just I'm just saying

1111
01:14:40,359 --> 01:14:43,880
that's not the approach and the venue within which I

1112
01:14:43,920 --> 01:14:45,640
want to talk about this kind of stuff.

1113
01:14:46,119 --> 01:14:48,199
Speaker 1: I'm with you on that. Well, doctor Nolan, thank you

1114
01:14:48,199 --> 01:14:50,479
so much for joining us. How can folks at home

1115
01:14:50,520 --> 01:14:53,319
follow your work and support the Soul Foundation?

1116
01:14:54,640 --> 01:14:57,239
Speaker 2: Well, you can go to the Soul Foundation website certainly,

1117
01:14:58,520 --> 01:15:04,359
and there are donations there. I've personally donated quite a

1118
01:15:04,399 --> 01:15:07,479
bit of money myself to my to the Sole Foundation.

1119
01:15:07,840 --> 01:15:10,600
So people who say that I'm making money on this,

1120
01:15:11,119 --> 01:15:13,560
if they knew how much money I've spent on it,

1121
01:15:14,760 --> 01:15:16,840
you know, they'd say Otherwise. People think that I get

1122
01:15:17,479 --> 01:15:20,880
money for speaking tours. I've never been paid a penny

1123
01:15:21,239 --> 01:15:24,079
about this thing. Even for my own cancer research. I

1124
01:15:24,159 --> 01:15:27,159
might get one hundred dollars check from the graduate students

1125
01:15:27,199 --> 01:15:30,199
at you know, Harvard to pay for my meal, and

1126
01:15:30,560 --> 01:15:33,880
they'll pay for my flight. That's about it. So certainly

1127
01:15:33,920 --> 01:15:36,880
that you know, I mean, I'm just gonna I'll say it.

1128
01:15:36,920 --> 01:15:39,039
If there's anybody out there who is interested in supporting

1129
01:15:39,079 --> 01:15:42,720
cancer research, you can donate to Stanford and my laboratory

1130
01:15:43,279 --> 01:15:45,760
and we'll put it to very good use around artificial

1131
01:15:45,800 --> 01:15:49,640
intelligence if you want to. If you want to donate

1132
01:15:49,680 --> 01:15:53,920
to Stanford for my UAP research, there is a fund

1133
01:15:53,960 --> 01:15:58,680
set up and I've had about almost one point two

1134
01:15:58,800 --> 01:16:01,840
million dollars donated to my lab for the work that

1135
01:16:01,880 --> 01:16:08,159
I've done for UAP. It's amazing, and Stanford's quite you know,

1136
01:16:08,680 --> 01:16:14,960
open to it so, you know, but donating for my

1137
01:16:15,039 --> 01:16:17,880
cancer research means I have to write fewer grants so

1138
01:16:17,920 --> 01:16:18,920
I can maybe spend more.

1139
01:16:18,760 --> 01:16:19,159
Speaker 1: Time on you.

1140
01:16:19,239 --> 01:16:19,479
Speaker 2: Ap.

1141
01:16:19,960 --> 01:16:23,880
Speaker 1: There you go. Hey, it's a win win. I love that. Well, Gary,

1142
01:16:23,920 --> 01:16:25,760
thank you so much for joining us, and thank you

1143
01:16:25,800 --> 01:16:29,920
for helping us kick off our premiere episode on here

1144
01:16:29,920 --> 01:16:33,000
in twenty twenty six. Thank you for doing all of

1145
01:16:33,239 --> 01:16:35,600
the work you do to really make this world a

1146
01:16:35,640 --> 01:16:36,279
better place.

1147
01:16:36,600 --> 01:16:39,159
Speaker 2: And thank you Matt. I mean I real class that

1148
01:16:39,319 --> 01:16:44,279
following you. And again, thank you for sort of being

1149
01:16:46,560 --> 01:16:50,039
the canary and the coal mine, let's call it that

1150
01:16:50,319 --> 01:16:56,720
for some of the efforts recently especially, but I think

1151
01:16:56,720 --> 01:17:02,239
your dedication is momentousciate.

1152
01:17:00,359 --> 01:17:03,560
Speaker 1: That that that that you made my day. I really

1153
01:17:03,600 --> 01:17:07,600
appreciate that. That's yeah, I'm speechless. Well, Gary, thank you

1154
01:17:07,680 --> 01:17:11,239
so much for joining us. Have a great weekend, and

1155
01:17:11,520 --> 01:17:14,199
hopefully I'll maybe making it up your to your neck

1156
01:17:14,239 --> 01:17:15,560
of the woods here in a couple of weeks and

1157
01:17:15,600 --> 01:17:17,680
we can meet for lunch or whatever.

1158
01:17:17,800 --> 01:17:18,039
Speaker 2: Great.

1159
01:17:18,359 --> 01:17:22,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, awesome, Okay Gary Nolan, Ladies and gentlemen, Yeah what

1160
01:17:22,760 --> 01:17:29,640
what a just a fantastic He's Gary, much much like Avi,

1161
01:17:29,920 --> 01:17:35,159
is a scientist that walks the walk, and he has

1162
01:17:35,640 --> 01:17:40,319
this scientific curiosity that frankly a large portion of the

1163
01:17:40,359 --> 01:17:42,640
scientific community just does not have.

1164
01:17:43,479 --> 01:17:43,960
Speaker 2: Uh.

1165
01:17:44,039 --> 01:17:49,039
Speaker 1: He you know, he looks for the outliers in data.

1166
01:17:49,479 --> 01:17:54,800
He he looks for the things that are not expected

1167
01:17:55,479 --> 01:17:58,840
and that piques his curiosity. And that that in my opinion,

1168
01:17:58,880 --> 01:18:01,199
and I'm not a scientist, like you said, wasn't the

1169
01:18:01,239 --> 01:18:04,520
best college student, but we need more people like that

1170
01:18:04,520 --> 01:18:10,520
that that are frankly brave. They you know, they have

1171
01:18:10,840 --> 01:18:17,239
courage to stand up to their their academic colleagues who

1172
01:18:17,439 --> 01:18:22,039
might laugh, or or administrations at a at a university.

1173
01:18:23,039 --> 01:18:28,000
That's real courage, speaking your truth, not giving a damn

1174
01:18:28,279 --> 01:18:33,600
what other people say about you that you and I

1175
01:18:33,720 --> 01:18:36,600
venture to guess that that has served Gary doctor Nolan

1176
01:18:37,039 --> 01:18:39,600
very well in his life, and that is probably why

1177
01:18:39,640 --> 01:18:44,079
he has been so wildly successful. That that fearlessness that

1178
01:18:44,079 --> 01:18:46,720
that he has. And and I remember when we had

1179
01:18:46,880 --> 01:18:50,279
doctor Avi Lobe, he made some comment that he looks

1180
01:18:50,319 --> 01:18:52,760
at science and in the same way that with the

1181
01:18:52,760 --> 01:18:55,600
same level of curiosity as he looked at life as

1182
01:18:55,720 --> 01:18:59,239
a young kid. When you don't have all of this

1183
01:18:59,720 --> 01:19:03,560
bad bagage that the media tries to put on you

1184
01:19:03,880 --> 01:19:10,920
or other debunkers, people that are trying to really interfere

1185
01:19:11,319 --> 01:19:16,399
with people's efforts to find the truth, and really that

1186
01:19:16,479 --> 01:19:19,359
at the end of the day, that's what this is about.

1187
01:19:20,439 --> 01:19:23,199
We're not saying, at least I know, I'm not saying that,

1188
01:19:23,319 --> 01:19:25,640
you know, we know where this stuff is from, or

1189
01:19:26,119 --> 01:19:31,600
what it is or what it wants. We're walking into

1190
01:19:31,640 --> 01:19:36,920
this and letting the data lead us where it where

1191
01:19:37,600 --> 01:19:40,760
you know, where it leads us, rather than walking into

1192
01:19:40,840 --> 01:19:46,199
something with a sort of predetermined conclusion. And I think

1193
01:19:46,680 --> 01:19:49,199
doctor Nolan really kind of touched on that, the difference

1194
01:19:49,279 --> 01:19:55,279
between being a healthy skeptic versus being a being a debunker,

1195
01:19:57,079 --> 01:20:01,560
you know. And I completely agree and support doctor Nolan's

1196
01:20:01,600 --> 01:20:07,119
decision not to participate in this CBS show. I know

1197
01:20:07,359 --> 01:20:11,239
that there were other people that were approached by CBS

1198
01:20:11,279 --> 01:20:14,239
with this thing, and actually I had heard that Mick

1199
01:20:14,319 --> 01:20:17,479
and these debunkers were up to something with a major

1200
01:20:17,520 --> 01:20:20,560
news network. It was probably around six to nine months ago,

1201
01:20:20,840 --> 01:20:23,840
although at the time I didn't have the didn't have

1202
01:20:23,880 --> 01:20:28,479
the details, but you know, but this this was going on,

1203
01:20:29,159 --> 01:20:34,560
and I think that when you have when you're it's

1204
01:20:34,600 --> 01:20:38,119
not it's not a fair debate when you are debating

1205
01:20:38,199 --> 01:20:42,600
with someone that is going to leave out evidence or

1206
01:20:42,680 --> 01:20:49,119
misrepresent evidence, uh all for the purpose seemingly to to

1207
01:20:50,479 --> 01:20:55,800
come to a particular conclusion sort of just it's it's

1208
01:20:55,840 --> 01:21:00,680
like gaming, gaming the system. And if I were to,

1209
01:21:02,039 --> 01:21:04,880
if I didn't know anything about the UAP topic, I

1210
01:21:04,920 --> 01:21:09,960
would certainly trust doctor Gary Nolan over mcwest or some

1211
01:21:10,039 --> 01:21:12,960
of these other folks, because it'd be clear to me

1212
01:21:13,039 --> 01:21:17,119
that doctor Nolan is all about the data. He is

1213
01:21:17,159 --> 01:21:22,680
not about an agenda or forcing a conclusion without the

1214
01:21:22,760 --> 01:21:26,640
scientific evidence to back it up. He's all about the

1215
01:21:26,760 --> 01:21:30,960
data and seeing where the going, where the data leads,

1216
01:21:31,319 --> 01:21:35,880
rather than operating from an agenda, which is I think

1217
01:21:35,920 --> 01:21:42,279
where one of the where all of these debunkers, particularly mcwest,

1218
01:21:44,159 --> 01:21:46,880
operates from, which is why, in my opinion, you really

1219
01:21:46,960 --> 01:21:51,319
can't trust much of what comes out of these folks.

1220
01:21:51,920 --> 01:21:55,279
But I want to talk about something else here, and

1221
01:21:55,319 --> 01:22:01,800
this is really pretty serious. The the UAP Disclosure Act,

1222
01:22:02,840 --> 01:22:07,000
which was I think the third time around that this

1223
01:22:07,560 --> 01:22:12,720
was attempted to get pushed through or become federal law

1224
01:22:12,840 --> 01:22:17,319
in the National Defense Authorization Act. We know that once

1225
01:22:17,359 --> 01:22:24,439
again it failed. This act, which from a cost perspective,

1226
01:22:24,640 --> 01:22:28,720
was virtually minimal compared to some of the other programs

1227
01:22:28,800 --> 01:22:33,880
that that legislation pays for, was absolutely minuscule. All this

1228
01:22:34,000 --> 01:22:39,920
thing was about was transparency on the UAP issue with

1229
01:22:40,199 --> 01:22:44,319
the American public to the extent that it did not

1230
01:22:44,600 --> 01:22:49,720
harm national security. It talked used the phrase non human

1231
01:22:49,760 --> 01:22:55,239
intelligence I think like twenty something times. And one of

1232
01:22:55,279 --> 01:22:59,840
the other important elements of it was it had this

1233
01:23:00,119 --> 01:23:06,800
in a domain clause that mandated defense contractors in possession

1234
01:23:06,920 --> 01:23:12,000
of vehicles of non human origin or biological materials of

1235
01:23:12,079 --> 01:23:14,960
non human origin to be returned back to the government.

1236
01:23:16,319 --> 01:23:22,680
This got derailed. You had this legislation written by Senator

1237
01:23:23,079 --> 01:23:29,600
Senator Schumer, Senator Mike Rounds, and Senator Kirsten Gillibrand, so

1238
01:23:30,600 --> 01:23:34,960
you have to ask yourself, how the hell did that happen?

1239
01:23:35,439 --> 01:23:41,199
How the hell did this legislation by three of the

1240
01:23:41,520 --> 01:23:49,920
most powerful United States senators not go through. Now you've

1241
01:23:49,920 --> 01:23:53,920
heard me speak on the program extensively. Really for the

1242
01:23:53,960 --> 01:23:59,159
life of the Good Trouble show about the UAP gatekeepers,

1243
01:23:59,760 --> 01:24:04,239
the fifties or so senior executive service level people spread

1244
01:24:04,239 --> 01:24:10,239
throughout different nodes of government who protect the program, protect

1245
01:24:10,239 --> 01:24:16,039
the legacy program. These are the people that are paying

1246
01:24:16,199 --> 01:24:21,800
for the disinformation and the debunking, and the gerrilla skeptics

1247
01:24:21,840 --> 01:24:24,920
of the world and the Wall Street journals of the world.

1248
01:24:25,479 --> 01:24:29,720
These folks, in conjunction with the intelligence community are in

1249
01:24:29,760 --> 01:24:35,119
many ways the bad actors, or at least a sort of

1250
01:24:35,119 --> 01:24:40,319
a section of it. You know, all organizations are multifaceted.

1251
01:24:40,399 --> 01:24:45,279
You have factions, so to speak. But these are the

1252
01:24:45,319 --> 01:24:51,800
folks really from the inception of the security infrastructure and

1253
01:24:52,000 --> 01:24:58,079
creation of the Legacy program that are gatekeeping this. But

1254
01:24:58,199 --> 01:25:04,000
there is there are gatekeepers that I have not spoken

1255
01:25:04,039 --> 01:25:09,880
about on this program. And these gatekeepers are really, in

1256
01:25:10,000 --> 01:25:16,319
many ways probably the most important. And these gatekeepers are

1257
01:25:16,359 --> 01:25:21,039
some of the congressional staffers. Chris Sharp put out an

1258
01:25:21,119 --> 01:25:25,279
article in The Liberation Times, and actually this was I

1259
01:25:25,319 --> 01:25:27,279
had no idea that he had put this article out,

1260
01:25:27,720 --> 01:25:33,840
but essentially it said that Senator Mitch McConnell's office was

1261
01:25:33,920 --> 01:25:37,039
the one that killed the National Defense Authorization Act for

1262
01:25:37,079 --> 01:25:42,479
twenty twenty seven. And in his article he stated that

1263
01:25:44,319 --> 01:25:51,000
chief of staff Terry Carmack, Senator Senator Mitch McConnell's chief

1264
01:25:51,000 --> 01:25:54,600
of staff, Terry Carmack, was the guy that killed the

1265
01:25:54,720 --> 01:25:59,600
UAP disclosure Act. I actually received this same bit of

1266
01:25:59,600 --> 01:26:05,760
information from a source earlier yesterday. UH. And and I'm

1267
01:26:05,800 --> 01:26:08,680
going to read, uh just a let's see if I

1268
01:26:08,720 --> 01:26:17,479
can find it here. But this, this is not how

1269
01:26:17,520 --> 01:26:23,920
you operate a democracy. When you have United States senators

1270
01:26:24,920 --> 01:26:30,159
uh that are are being undercut by their own staffers,

1271
01:26:32,119 --> 01:26:34,359
you know, it really makes you wonder, well, who who's

1272
01:26:34,399 --> 01:26:40,079
really running things? I'm going to read read this. Uh.

1273
01:26:40,239 --> 01:26:44,359
Sources identify Terry Carmack, McConnell's chief of staff, as the

1274
01:26:44,399 --> 01:26:48,840
staffer who pressed to have the UAP Disclosure Act stripped

1275
01:26:48,840 --> 01:26:54,520
from the National Defense Authorization Act after Eric Berlison had

1276
01:26:54,520 --> 01:27:01,039
submitted it as an amendment. UH. The source that Mitch

1277
01:27:01,119 --> 01:27:06,600
really wielded his lease like a cudgel, and the response was, yes,

1278
01:27:06,680 --> 01:27:10,680
it was true. It was Carmack. Carmack is not the

1279
01:27:10,720 --> 01:27:16,800
only powerful staffer involved as agents of Senator McConnell. Senator

1280
01:27:18,079 --> 01:27:22,680
Senator McConnell chairs the powerful Senate Defense Appropriation Subcommittee. His

1281
01:27:22,840 --> 01:27:27,720
staff director was also involved. So here you have the

1282
01:27:28,159 --> 01:27:34,279
chief of staff of Senator Mitch McConnell and the staff

1283
01:27:34,319 --> 01:27:40,319
director killing this stuff. And I have to tell you

1284
01:27:40,640 --> 01:27:45,399
I've heard this from other sources. As well that some,

1285
01:27:45,720 --> 01:27:52,079
not all, some of these congressional staffers they're the ones

1286
01:27:52,439 --> 01:27:57,960
that get harassed. They're the ones that are offered sweetheart

1287
01:27:58,520 --> 01:28:04,279
deals working for lobbying firms or whoever. They're the ones

1288
01:28:04,640 --> 01:28:08,960
that the legacy programs approach and say, hey, we need

1289
01:28:09,000 --> 01:28:14,520
you to kind of tamp this thing down. So my

1290
01:28:14,680 --> 01:28:20,119
question to the speaker, Speaker of the House, Mike Johnson,

1291
01:28:20,680 --> 01:28:23,720
and the Senate Majority Leader, who I'm blanking on his

1292
01:28:23,800 --> 01:28:27,119
name for a second, you know what is going on

1293
01:28:28,159 --> 01:28:33,159
in your house, what is going on on Capitol Hill?

1294
01:28:35,840 --> 01:28:40,760
We would have this UAP Disclosure Act if Speaker Mike

1295
01:28:40,840 --> 01:28:46,159
Johnson had done his damn job. We would have the

1296
01:28:46,279 --> 01:28:51,039
UAP Disclosure Act if Mitch McConnell's chief of staff and

1297
01:28:51,600 --> 01:28:54,800
apparently a staff director guessing from one of the committees,

1298
01:28:55,560 --> 01:29:04,199
had not blocked this legislation. Who elected these congressional staffers

1299
01:29:04,680 --> 01:29:11,920
to make those kinds of decisions. Who elected these congressional

1300
01:29:12,000 --> 01:29:16,800
staffers to go against the will of the American people.

1301
01:29:19,680 --> 01:29:26,560
Who elected these congressional staffers to undercut the very people

1302
01:29:26,600 --> 01:29:29,640
that they are working for. By that, I mean congress

1303
01:29:30,000 --> 01:29:33,079
members of Congress or members of the House and the

1304
01:29:33,119 --> 01:29:40,079
Senate's it's frankly something that we all need to be

1305
01:29:40,359 --> 01:29:48,479
asking about, because if certain congressional staffers are tanking legislation

1306
01:29:49,000 --> 01:29:52,520
that their bosses actually want, what else are they doing?

1307
01:29:52,920 --> 01:29:56,800
What else are they blocking? And again, and I have

1308
01:29:56,880 --> 01:30:01,880
relationships with staffers and members of congres This is not

1309
01:30:02,119 --> 01:30:06,760
a an all or nothing thing. Just like just like anything,

1310
01:30:07,399 --> 01:30:10,399
you've got good actors and bad actors, and and I

1311
01:30:10,399 --> 01:30:13,039
would say the ones that I've interacted with fall into

1312
01:30:13,079 --> 01:30:16,800
the good actor category. But this is, this is something

1313
01:30:16,840 --> 01:30:20,319
that we really need to be talking about. We really

1314
01:30:20,319 --> 01:30:23,760
need to be talking about why Speaker of the House

1315
01:30:23,840 --> 01:30:28,000
Mike Johnson did not uh it seems to be avoiding

1316
01:30:28,039 --> 01:30:32,880
this topic, and why the Senate Majority leader, who is

1317
01:30:32,920 --> 01:30:37,720
no longer Mitch McConnell, why this guy his chief of

1318
01:30:37,800 --> 01:30:43,119
staff and uh and this staff director killed the legislation.

1319
01:30:45,279 --> 01:30:47,199
I don't know, I you know, I'd never heard of

1320
01:30:47,239 --> 01:30:51,000
these guys prior to this whole thing. But it's got

1321
01:30:51,159 --> 01:30:56,680
a it's gotta stop. As I've said time and time again,

1322
01:30:57,439 --> 01:31:00,960
members of Congress, the people that we all act to

1323
01:31:01,119 --> 01:31:05,760
represent us, cannot do their jobs when they are not

1324
01:31:06,279 --> 01:31:10,960
given the information. When they are you know when they're there,

1325
01:31:11,520 --> 01:31:14,520
when they go to the Pentagon or the Intelligence Community

1326
01:31:14,520 --> 01:31:17,920
and a door gets slammed in their face. You've heard

1327
01:31:17,920 --> 01:31:22,840
that from Congresswoman Anna Polina Luna and Eric Burlason and

1328
01:31:23,000 --> 01:31:29,119
Tim Bershett, the literal backflips that the Pentagon and the

1329
01:31:29,119 --> 01:31:33,600
Intelligence Community and the Department of Energy do to keep

1330
01:31:33,680 --> 01:31:37,600
this from lawmakers, to keep this from the people that

1331
01:31:38,000 --> 01:31:45,039
we sent to Washington to represent all of us. And

1332
01:31:45,079 --> 01:31:49,399
then to find out that at least in Senator Chuck

1333
01:31:49,439 --> 01:31:54,720
Schumer's orbit, he's got a chief of staff that is

1334
01:31:55,079 --> 01:32:00,279
killing legislation that three of the most powerful senators in

1335
01:32:00,319 --> 01:32:05,039
the United States Senate have put forth have spent their

1336
01:32:05,079 --> 01:32:11,439
own political capital on. And here you've got this staffer gatekeeping.

1337
01:32:13,439 --> 01:32:20,720
You've got Senator Mitch McConnell's chief of staff gatekeeping, Terry Carmack.

1338
01:32:21,479 --> 01:32:26,359
People should look up Terry Carmack. These emails are very

1339
01:32:26,399 --> 01:32:29,600
easy to find for staffers on Congress. You just need

1340
01:32:29,600 --> 01:32:32,840
to do a little little digging. But these exist in

1341
01:32:33,560 --> 01:32:39,720
databases on the Internet. But people need to be reaching

1342
01:32:39,720 --> 01:32:45,600
out to these to these congressional offices. Call Senator Mitch

1343
01:32:45,680 --> 01:32:51,279
McConnell's office and ask why in the hell, Terry Carmack

1344
01:32:52,439 --> 01:32:57,159
and whatever staff director went in and torpedo this legislation

1345
01:33:00,159 --> 01:33:03,520
and spoke about this earlier. It's probably well over seventy

1346
01:33:03,560 --> 01:33:07,479
five percent of the public want to know what the

1347
01:33:07,479 --> 01:33:10,840
hell's going on and also what is not going on.

1348
01:33:11,560 --> 01:33:16,159
But because the government continues to lie to all of you,

1349
01:33:16,720 --> 01:33:20,359
all of us, we have no idea what's going on.

1350
01:33:22,000 --> 01:33:26,960
When you have former leadership of the Pentagon's UFO office

1351
01:33:28,199 --> 01:33:33,119
insulting members of Congress while while still on the taxpayer's dime,

1352
01:33:34,199 --> 01:33:37,560
and you've got another guy, former director of Aero, Tim Phillips,

1353
01:33:37,560 --> 01:33:44,119
going on podcasts seemingly spilling classified information, you know, you

1354
01:33:44,279 --> 01:33:46,520
just you got to wonder what the hell is going on?

1355
01:33:48,720 --> 01:33:52,119
And nothing is going to change if we all just

1356
01:33:52,960 --> 01:33:58,159
lay down and take it. If you want things to change,

1357
01:33:58,159 --> 01:33:59,960
you got to make the phone calls. You've got to

1358
01:34:00,479 --> 01:34:07,720
go to protests, make your voice heard, call email. But

1359
01:34:08,279 --> 01:34:11,680
you've got these gatekeepers out of the Legacy program and

1360
01:34:11,760 --> 01:34:15,800
the folks that are three layers down from let's say

1361
01:34:15,800 --> 01:34:19,600
the Secretary of Defense, the deputy undersecretaries and all of

1362
01:34:19,600 --> 01:34:22,319
that who are doing the gatekeeping, the people that are

1363
01:34:22,680 --> 01:34:26,520
there for life. But then you've also got these members,

1364
01:34:26,800 --> 01:34:32,359
these certain congressional staffers who are fucking it all up,

1365
01:34:34,399 --> 01:34:38,319
and it's un American. We did not send these staffers

1366
01:34:38,640 --> 01:34:43,199
in there to undermine their bosses, to undermine the people

1367
01:34:43,279 --> 01:34:48,960
that we voted in Republicans and Democrats. And trust me,

1368
01:34:49,039 --> 01:34:57,000
this corruption goes on both sides of the aisle. But

1369
01:34:57,119 --> 01:35:02,319
we can't just sit back let this happen again and

1370
01:35:02,359 --> 01:35:08,920
again and again. Who who are these staffers that are

1371
01:35:08,960 --> 01:35:19,520
blocking this stuff? Why is there not an investigation? Why

1372
01:35:19,720 --> 01:35:24,840
is there not a right you know? Why why is

1373
01:35:24,840 --> 01:35:32,680
there not a DOJ investigation into what is what are

1374
01:35:33,119 --> 01:35:38,039
insider threats in Congress? Because that's what it is. These

1375
01:35:38,079 --> 01:35:44,520
are insider threats. These are people who are doing damage

1376
01:35:44,760 --> 01:35:50,960
to this democracy. Where is the Department of Justice? Why

1377
01:35:51,079 --> 01:35:57,039
is there no Attorney General investigation into which congressional staffers

1378
01:35:57,479 --> 01:36:04,800
are compromised? Where is that? Where is an investigation from

1379
01:36:04,880 --> 01:36:09,640
the Department of Justice, from the Attorney General into which

1380
01:36:09,680 --> 01:36:16,560
congressional staffers are compromised? Which congressional staffers are taking backroom

1381
01:36:16,640 --> 01:36:21,399
deals from defense contractors and backroom deals with the legacy program?

1382
01:36:23,880 --> 01:36:28,560
Why is there no investigation into what is being promised?

1383
01:36:29,600 --> 01:36:35,079
What carrots are being dangled to these congressional staffers to

1384
01:36:35,159 --> 01:36:40,680
shut this shit down, because that's what's going on. Money talks,

1385
01:36:40,720 --> 01:36:45,920
bullshit walks, and unfortunately, there are some folks operating in

1386
01:36:46,000 --> 01:36:50,199
Congress who are not doing it for love of God

1387
01:36:50,199 --> 01:36:54,680
and country. They're doing it for themselves. And whether they're

1388
01:36:54,720 --> 01:36:59,359
being bribed by the intelligence community or a defense contractor

1389
01:37:00,199 --> 01:37:07,359
legacy program or whoever, when whatever, non government organization, the

1390
01:37:07,399 --> 01:37:10,079
fact is you've got people in there that are compromised

1391
01:37:10,319 --> 01:37:17,800
and they are affecting federal law. We can't just let

1392
01:37:17,840 --> 01:37:25,239
this lie. So when you hear about gatekeeping gatekeepers, it's

1393
01:37:25,359 --> 01:37:29,000
not just in the intelligence community. It's not just in

1394
01:37:29,039 --> 01:37:32,920
the Department of War or Pentagon. It's not just in

1395
01:37:32,960 --> 01:37:37,880
the legacy program. You've got gatekeeping going on right now

1396
01:37:38,279 --> 01:37:42,079
in the offices of members of Congress by some of

1397
01:37:42,119 --> 01:37:49,159
these staffers. It's It is no wonder that people do

1398
01:37:49,239 --> 01:37:54,079
not trust the government. It is no wonder that people

1399
01:37:54,560 --> 01:37:59,600
do not trust the mainstream media. I used to make

1400
01:37:59,640 --> 01:38:02,720
fun of Trump and his deep state stuff because well,

1401
01:38:02,800 --> 01:38:05,479
I'm about to switch to independent, But you know what,

1402
01:38:05,520 --> 01:38:09,439
Trump was right. There is a deep state. This deep

1403
01:38:09,479 --> 01:38:15,399
state is all over the damn place, and it undermines

1404
01:38:15,560 --> 01:38:21,680
things that they do not want to happen. It undermines presidents.

1405
01:38:21,760 --> 01:38:23,880
I'm not a Trump fan, don't get me wrong there,

1406
01:38:24,479 --> 01:38:30,119
but it undermines presidents, It undermines legislation, It undermines you

1407
01:38:30,239 --> 01:38:35,520
at home knowing the truth about things. And these are

1408
01:38:35,560 --> 01:38:41,319
folks we didn't elect. These are folks that we are

1409
01:38:41,439 --> 01:38:49,399
operating in congressional offices that are gatekeeping the UAP issue.

1410
01:38:49,600 --> 01:38:52,119
You know, these members of Congress, they got a lot

1411
01:38:52,159 --> 01:38:58,800
on their plate. They rely extensively on their staffers. And

1412
01:38:58,920 --> 01:39:01,760
there are good staffers, and there are staffers that are

1413
01:39:01,800 --> 01:39:06,600
there for serving the country and doing the right thing.

1414
01:39:08,439 --> 01:39:13,000
But then you've got this small subset that unfortunately is

1415
01:39:13,239 --> 01:39:19,199
very powerful, that is controlling everything. They are part of

1416
01:39:19,239 --> 01:39:24,079
this machine, this deep state machine, or whatever you want

1417
01:39:24,119 --> 01:39:25,720
to call if you don't want to call a deep state,

1418
01:39:26,479 --> 01:39:28,079
I don't know, whatever you want to call it. But

1419
01:39:28,359 --> 01:39:34,399
it's a machine, a cancer that continues to grow and

1420
01:39:34,520 --> 01:39:43,199
grow and grow on this Republic. So we need the

1421
01:39:43,239 --> 01:39:46,880
Senate Majority leader to do his damn job. We need

1422
01:39:49,319 --> 01:39:52,199
Speaker of the House Mike Johnson to do his job,

1423
01:39:52,600 --> 01:39:56,520
and they need to hold investigations all these staffers in

1424
01:39:56,880 --> 01:40:01,720
that are dealing with chief of staffs and national security staffers.

1425
01:40:02,920 --> 01:40:07,479
Put them under polygraph, find out who is compromised, and

1426
01:40:07,520 --> 01:40:11,560
get them the hell out if they are. You know,

1427
01:40:11,880 --> 01:40:18,319
this country is in a bad place. And when you

1428
01:40:18,560 --> 01:40:26,159
have congressional staffers gatekeeping and obfuse, skating and essentially lying

1429
01:40:26,279 --> 01:40:30,880
to their bosses, it's no wonder this whole thing is

1430
01:40:30,880 --> 01:40:33,680
a shit show right now in this country. It's no

1431
01:40:33,800 --> 01:40:40,720
wonder that Washington is dysfunctional. And again that dysfunction exists

1432
01:40:40,720 --> 01:40:43,920
on the left and the right, there is no doubt

1433
01:40:43,920 --> 01:40:50,399
about that. But the DOJ needs to hold investigations on

1434
01:40:50,800 --> 01:40:55,720
congressional staffers, who is compromised, who is paid off, who

1435
01:40:55,760 --> 01:41:01,520
is being promised things, what congressional staffers are interfering with

1436
01:41:01,960 --> 01:41:07,880
legislation and in particular legislation with on the on the

1437
01:41:08,000 --> 01:41:12,439
UAP issue. You know, we just this, This can't this

1438
01:41:12,640 --> 01:41:16,680
can't We can't keep doing what we're doing here. That is,

1439
01:41:17,439 --> 01:41:20,039
that is for sure. I want to thank everybody for

1440
01:41:20,079 --> 01:41:24,800
the super chats, and yeah, I hope everyone had a

1441
01:41:24,840 --> 01:41:28,600
really great, really great holiday, and I know I did,

1442
01:41:28,760 --> 01:41:31,880
got a chance to visit, go out of town, visit family.

1443
01:41:32,880 --> 01:41:35,720
But you know, we're in a new year. This is

1444
01:41:35,760 --> 01:41:40,880
twenty twenty six. Just because we had the chief of

1445
01:41:40,960 --> 01:41:46,159
staff of Senator Mitch McConnell tank the UAP Disclosure Act

1446
01:41:46,279 --> 01:41:50,560
does not mean we give up. You keep fighting for

1447
01:41:50,640 --> 01:41:56,239
what's right. They want these uh, these gate keepers in

1448
01:41:56,720 --> 01:42:00,560
Congress and the Legacy Program and the IC. They want

1449
01:42:00,640 --> 01:42:03,720
all of you right now that are watching this show

1450
01:42:06,159 --> 01:42:09,680
to pack up and move on. That is what they want.

1451
01:42:11,239 --> 01:42:15,279
And you can't give it to him. Then they win.

1452
01:42:16,920 --> 01:42:22,760
Then we all fail. Then we lose what this country

1453
01:42:23,399 --> 01:42:27,119
should be. And it is a damn time that we

1454
01:42:27,199 --> 01:42:31,720
get this country back on track and get it back

1455
01:42:31,880 --> 01:42:35,720
to the America that this needs to be. And all

1456
01:42:35,760 --> 01:42:41,159
of that starts with rooting out this corruption. And there

1457
01:42:41,239 --> 01:42:46,239
is no better demonstration of this corruption than in the

1458
01:42:46,399 --> 01:42:51,199
legacy UAP program and the tentacles that it has everywhere.

1459
01:42:52,760 --> 01:42:57,439
There needs to be investigations, People need to be held accountable.

1460
01:42:58,119 --> 01:43:02,000
There are some people that need to go to federal jail.

1461
01:43:03,279 --> 01:43:06,760
It needs to happen, because the longer we sit back

1462
01:43:07,800 --> 01:43:13,279
and let all this keep, you know, growing this cancer

1463
01:43:12,520 --> 01:43:17,079
on our country, on this republic, at some point you

1464
01:43:17,159 --> 01:43:22,000
reach a point where there's just no return, no point

1465
01:43:22,039 --> 01:43:27,359
of return. You have to hold people accountable. And once again,

1466
01:43:27,800 --> 01:43:31,560
you cannot expect the members of Congress that we elect.

1467
01:43:32,720 --> 01:43:36,960
They cannot do their job or make the right decisions

1468
01:43:37,239 --> 01:43:42,840
for this country. When you have congressional staffers cutting them

1469
01:43:42,840 --> 01:43:46,640
off at the knee, like Mitch McConnell's chief of staff,

1470
01:43:47,640 --> 01:43:50,920
it's unfair. It's unfair to their bosses, it's unfair to

1471
01:43:50,960 --> 01:43:54,039
all of you watching, it's unfair to every American and

1472
01:43:54,079 --> 01:43:57,840
every person in the world that wants to know where

1473
01:43:57,960 --> 01:44:03,840
they are true places in the universe. That decision is

1474
01:44:03,880 --> 01:44:08,479
not Mitch mcconnald's chief of staff to make. It's not

1475
01:44:09,920 --> 01:44:14,600
And frankly, Senator Mitch mcconnald's chief of staff should be

1476
01:44:14,720 --> 01:44:18,840
goddamn embarrassed and ashamed for what he did. But you know,

1477
01:44:19,039 --> 01:44:21,520
I'm sure this guy's laughing all the way to the bank.

1478
01:44:21,560 --> 01:44:27,760
Would be my personal guests, but call Senator Mitch McConnell's office,

1479
01:44:28,359 --> 01:44:32,560
email his chief of staff and say, you know, what

1480
01:44:32,600 --> 01:44:37,279
are you doing? What are you doing? Man? This? You know,

1481
01:44:37,359 --> 01:44:43,279
as Americans we deserve better. Anyway, Folks, if you enjoyed

1482
01:44:43,279 --> 01:44:46,199
this show, please tell all of your friends about us again.

1483
01:44:46,319 --> 01:44:49,239
Hit that like and subscribe. All of that stuff really

1484
01:44:49,239 --> 01:44:53,000
helps us out. And again we are completely funded by

1485
01:44:53,039 --> 01:44:55,359
people like yourself. We have rent to pay for the

1486
01:44:55,439 --> 01:45:00,359
studio at various other expenses. So we really appreciate people

1487
01:45:00,399 --> 01:45:05,960
support us on Patreon or on YouTube by becoming a

1488
01:45:06,039 --> 01:45:10,760
member of the show, joining us in that way, and

1489
01:45:11,000 --> 01:45:13,520
the super chats of course, all of that really really

1490
01:45:13,520 --> 01:45:16,359
helps us out. You know, at the end of the day,

1491
01:45:18,479 --> 01:45:22,359
the reason I'm doing this, it's not about fame or

1492
01:45:22,600 --> 01:45:24,720
making a bunch of money, which we certainly aren't doing that.

1493
01:45:26,079 --> 01:45:28,600
It's about getting to the truth of whatever the hell

1494
01:45:28,680 --> 01:45:36,119
this is and holding people to account because I don't

1495
01:45:36,119 --> 01:45:38,479
know about you, but I'm tired of being lied to.

1496
01:45:40,000 --> 01:45:43,520
I'm tired of the government treating us all like a

1497
01:45:43,560 --> 01:45:53,119
bunch of kids. We are Americans, We can handle difficult things.

1498
01:45:53,600 --> 01:46:00,319
We rise to the occasion. But when you've got a

1499
01:46:00,319 --> 01:46:03,560
a government that treats you, treats all of us like

1500
01:46:03,600 --> 01:46:08,840
a bunch of children, that's that's that's not the country

1501
01:46:08,880 --> 01:46:12,399
I want to live in. That's that's not a democracy.

1502
01:46:12,960 --> 01:46:15,920
That is not a government by the people and for

1503
01:46:16,119 --> 01:46:22,119
the people. It is an abomination of democracy with what

1504
01:46:22,279 --> 01:46:25,800
is going on in particular with the with the UAP issue.

1505
01:46:27,479 --> 01:46:31,359
There is no good reason why they cannot tell us,

1506
01:46:31,600 --> 01:46:36,039
to some extent exactly what has been going on. But

1507
01:46:36,279 --> 01:46:39,800
it's not going to happen. As long as we have

1508
01:46:40,399 --> 01:46:45,319
these congressional staffers and other gatekeepers spread out through government

1509
01:46:48,119 --> 01:46:50,199
chopping everything off at the knees, it's not going to

1510
01:46:50,279 --> 01:46:54,640
happen anyway. Thanks again for joining us. We will have

1511
01:46:54,680 --> 01:46:57,439
another a great show coming up this weekend, and again

1512
01:46:57,520 --> 01:46:59,640
tell your friends about us at the like and subscribe

1513
01:46:59,680 --> 01:47:03,399
all that good stuff, and we certainly appreciate everyone's support,

1514
01:47:03,800 --> 01:47:07,640
and everyone have a great week. We will see you

1515
01:47:07,840 --> 01:47:09,640
next week on The Good Trouble Show.