WEBVTT 1 00:00:15.960 --> 00:00:19.879 It's the Lapsed Van Wrestling podcast special report. The Lapsed 2 00:00:19.879 --> 00:00:24.719 Fan presents the Complete Hul Cogan, a real American story, 3 00:00:25.280 --> 00:00:26.879 brought to you by Garage Pierre. 4 00:00:27.120 --> 00:00:29.399 We had to pull this one together, Boss, because in 5 00:00:29.480 --> 00:00:31.480 the special interview Vane, if we're going to be in 6 00:00:31.480 --> 00:00:33.359 the middle of the Complete Hull Cogan, we all know 7 00:00:33.359 --> 00:00:36.479 where we're heading, right, We're heading to Hulk gets massive, 8 00:00:36.840 --> 00:00:40.920 Hulk makes millions, Hulk has to shrink again when the the. 9 00:00:40.920 --> 00:00:45.520 Stay rights deflation, we're talking about inflation. 10 00:00:45.520 --> 00:00:49.280 We're talking about deflation in the months to come on 11 00:00:49.479 --> 00:00:54.000 TLF and serendipitously, there is a book that has dropped 12 00:00:54.479 --> 00:00:56.960 that we think might make a very nice compendium. This 13 00:00:57.039 --> 00:01:00.719 author's really entire Titan series. In a lot of ways. 14 00:01:00.719 --> 00:01:03.840 We'll track kind of the pivotal moments in which Hulk 15 00:01:03.880 --> 00:01:06.120 Hogan and the WWF came to fruition, but perhaps no 16 00:01:06.200 --> 00:01:09.319 more than the latest release, which is tight and shrinking. 17 00:01:09.359 --> 00:01:12.280 The author is James Dixon. You might know him from 18 00:01:12.319 --> 00:01:14.799 his many collaborations with Kenny McIntosh and the Inside the 19 00:01:14.879 --> 00:01:17.359 Rope's Crew over in the UK. He's done a series 20 00:01:17.359 --> 00:01:20.560 of books chronicling and really nice compendiums of everything that's 21 00:01:20.599 --> 00:01:24.120 been said by people who were there through the Titan rise. 22 00:01:24.120 --> 00:01:28.200 You might remember Titan screwed, Titan sinking, Titan shattered, and 23 00:01:28.239 --> 00:01:32.040 now it's Titan shrinking. How wrestling's muscle lost its power. 24 00:01:32.359 --> 00:01:35.480 James Dixon joins TLF to talk all about it. James, 25 00:01:35.519 --> 00:01:36.680 great to have you on the show man. 26 00:01:37.400 --> 00:01:39.799 Thank you very much. My absolute pleasure. I'm a big 27 00:01:39.799 --> 00:01:41.599 fun of you guys, so it's great to be with you. 28 00:01:41.799 --> 00:01:46.280 Oh it's a good start, so very good start. I 29 00:01:46.280 --> 00:01:49.280 want to start by going to a point in the 30 00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:52.079 book where you talked about your author conducted interviews, because 31 00:01:52.079 --> 00:01:53.560 if folks don't know one of the things James does 32 00:01:53.560 --> 00:01:55.840 exceptionally well, it's not only like what we do. Go 33 00:01:55.879 --> 00:01:58.120 through all the shoot interviews, go through all the media articles, 34 00:01:58.159 --> 00:02:00.280 go through all the observers and the torches, all the 35 00:02:00.280 --> 00:02:02.959 contemporaneous stuff, and really pull it together because it is 36 00:02:03.000 --> 00:02:06.400 so hard in professional wrestling to make sure you account 37 00:02:06.400 --> 00:02:09.080 for everybody's voice, not only everyone who was there, but 38 00:02:09.120 --> 00:02:11.039 everyone who claims to be there, and all of the 39 00:02:11.400 --> 00:02:13.400 debunking that has to go with, you know, the fact 40 00:02:13.400 --> 00:02:17.039 that you're you're you're sort of quoting professional liars, for 41 00:02:17.520 --> 00:02:21.000 ninety percent of what you're doing. And so James, at 42 00:02:21.000 --> 00:02:23.240 the at the end of Titan Shrinking, which is available 43 00:02:23.240 --> 00:02:26.159 now on Amazon and wherever get your books, has an 44 00:02:26.159 --> 00:02:29.199 author conducted interview section. A couple of folks really caught 45 00:02:29.240 --> 00:02:31.159 my eye, James, and I wondering if you could start 46 00:02:31.240 --> 00:02:35.000 just taking us into how these different folks contributed. One 47 00:02:35.039 --> 00:02:37.000 of the people you talked to was JJ Dillon, which 48 00:02:37.759 --> 00:02:39.439 he was there of course and a vice president of 49 00:02:39.439 --> 00:02:43.360 talent relations capacity. And first, you know, to introduce folks 50 00:02:43.360 --> 00:02:44.800 to the book, and then if you could start with Jj, 51 00:02:44.840 --> 00:02:46.719 I'd love to hear kind of what you gleaned from 52 00:02:46.759 --> 00:02:47.879 talking to him. 53 00:02:48.280 --> 00:02:51.599 Sure. Yeah, So with so the intro to the book is, 54 00:02:52.199 --> 00:02:55.319 as you mentioned, I'd release the other three the Titan trilogy, 55 00:02:55.319 --> 00:02:58.120 which covered ninety five to ninety seven, and for the 56 00:02:58.159 --> 00:03:01.479 last decade, Kenny Macintosh and the Ropes has been pestering 57 00:03:01.520 --> 00:03:04.000 me relentlessly to write a new one. I'm just like, man, 58 00:03:04.039 --> 00:03:06.879 there there's nothing I write about ninety eight ninety nine, 59 00:03:06.960 --> 00:03:11.199 like we w F then was on fire, So who cares? 60 00:03:11.520 --> 00:03:13.879 You know, there's nothing, there's nothing interesting about them doing 61 00:03:13.919 --> 00:03:16.800 well and everyone getting along and making a lot of money. 62 00:03:16.800 --> 00:03:19.879 But I was like, you know, my thought about it, 63 00:03:20.240 --> 00:03:23.240 ninety two, there's a lot happens in ninety two. You've 64 00:03:23.240 --> 00:03:25.960 got the UK boom, which which was huge. I don't think, 65 00:03:26.240 --> 00:03:29.159 you know, US fans realized just how big the UK 66 00:03:29.240 --> 00:03:32.479 boom was. Like, obviously they're aware of it, but I 67 00:03:32.719 --> 00:03:35.080 don't think there's an appreciation for that's as big as 68 00:03:35.080 --> 00:03:38.400 wrestling's ever been in the UK. Yes, was in ninety two, 69 00:03:38.520 --> 00:03:40.680 and not just for Summer Slam, you know, it was 70 00:03:41.319 --> 00:03:45.479 just everywhere, everywhere, mainstream. And he's like, well, that that's 71 00:03:45.520 --> 00:03:46.919 a big part of it. And it's a real nice 72 00:03:47.000 --> 00:03:49.719 juxtaposition with the WF in the US and the rest 73 00:03:49.759 --> 00:03:52.639 of the world's going down quite a lot and in 74 00:03:52.960 --> 00:03:55.879 every metric really, and Hogan obviously leaving is a big, 75 00:03:55.919 --> 00:03:58.400 big part of that, and are the reasons why and 76 00:03:58.639 --> 00:04:01.280 everything going down behind the scenes, and it's like, you know, 77 00:04:01.360 --> 00:04:04.840 there's there's a story here to be told. And the 78 00:04:04.840 --> 00:04:06.639 more I thought about it, I said, well, yeah, okay, 79 00:04:06.680 --> 00:04:08.039 you can go into ninety three and kind of the 80 00:04:08.039 --> 00:04:11.960 New Generation stuff, and and then obviously the big climax 81 00:04:12.000 --> 00:04:15.080 of the new trilogy, which is what this inevitably now 82 00:04:15.439 --> 00:04:18.319 is is obviously the steroidrout which which you guys know 83 00:04:18.360 --> 00:04:22.839 a lot about, And yeah, there's that's there's there's a 84 00:04:22.879 --> 00:04:25.639 task aheademy on that one to get that coherent and 85 00:04:25.759 --> 00:04:29.439 making sense. But it's it's a fun project. You know, 86 00:04:29.519 --> 00:04:31.439 it was a fun project to work on. And I 87 00:04:32.360 --> 00:04:34.560 wasn't convinced when I started that there'd be enough to 88 00:04:34.600 --> 00:04:36.279 fill out a book, but then I realized there was 89 00:04:36.680 --> 00:04:38.959 more than enough. You know, so much happened, so many 90 00:04:39.000 --> 00:04:42.720 people leave, so many new faces come in, and yeah, 91 00:04:42.920 --> 00:04:45.959 so it's worked out pretty well. But as for for JJ, 92 00:04:46.199 --> 00:04:49.079 that's actually an interview I did ten years ago. Wow. 93 00:04:49.439 --> 00:04:53.360 Funnily enough, So I interviewed JJ for the for the 94 00:04:53.399 --> 00:04:56.839 original trilogy. I don't remember how I got hold of him. 95 00:04:57.120 --> 00:04:59.680 I think it was through so I'm friends with their 96 00:04:59.759 --> 00:05:02.839 doc to Tom Richard, and he because I was there 97 00:05:02.879 --> 00:05:04.839 was a point where it's never going to come out, 98 00:05:04.879 --> 00:05:06.879 so he hopes it. But there was a point where 99 00:05:06.879 --> 00:05:10.319 I was working with him on his autobiography and we 100 00:05:10.600 --> 00:05:12.519 worked it for a while and then you know, it 101 00:05:12.600 --> 00:05:14.720 kind of fell through for a bunch of reasons, and 102 00:05:15.920 --> 00:05:17.600 you know, but we stayed close, and when I was 103 00:05:17.600 --> 00:05:19.959 doing this book, obviously I spoke to all those books. Sorry, 104 00:05:20.000 --> 00:05:22.279 I spoke to him and I said, look, I'd love 105 00:05:22.319 --> 00:05:25.680 to speak like JJ and others, because people always hear 106 00:05:26.040 --> 00:05:27.800 the restless point of view, but they're not the ones 107 00:05:27.839 --> 00:05:30.040 who matter because they don't either know what was going on, 108 00:05:30.759 --> 00:05:33.759 they don't remember, or they make it up, as as 109 00:05:33.759 --> 00:05:36.879 you alluded to. The guys who were working behind the 110 00:05:36.879 --> 00:05:39.360 scenes in the office or who were like the PR 111 00:05:39.480 --> 00:05:41.680 guys or the ring crew or whatever, they're the ones 112 00:05:41.720 --> 00:05:44.279 you want to speak to you because they remember it, 113 00:05:44.519 --> 00:05:47.319 you know, they remember it all. So and JJ was 114 00:05:47.319 --> 00:05:51.920 obviously really heavily involved behind the scenes in WF. So yeah, 115 00:05:51.959 --> 00:05:54.120 Tom Tom hooked me up with him, and I just 116 00:05:54.120 --> 00:05:57.240 give a call, and he was very very pleasant, very cordial, 117 00:05:57.279 --> 00:06:01.600 and you know, very willing to share anything that I 118 00:06:01.600 --> 00:06:05.120 asked him, and to the best of his recollection, obviously, 119 00:06:05.199 --> 00:06:08.000 and a lot of it was already in his really 120 00:06:08.199 --> 00:06:12.879 excellent book, which is Wrestlers Like Seagulls and you know, 121 00:06:12.920 --> 00:06:16.720 which is a very accurate description. And yeah, he was 122 00:06:17.279 --> 00:06:20.360 very willing, very accommodating. But like I say, it was 123 00:06:20.399 --> 00:06:23.160 a decade ago, so in terms of what he said, 124 00:06:23.759 --> 00:06:26.439 I'm not entirely sure word for word what he said. 125 00:06:26.439 --> 00:06:28.519 But I did make notes of everything he told me, 126 00:06:28.959 --> 00:06:30.800 and a lot of it because he would. 127 00:06:30.560 --> 00:06:32.800 Go he was in the office during a lot of 128 00:06:32.839 --> 00:06:36.120 this like panic mode, and he's credited or it depends, 129 00:06:36.160 --> 00:06:38.519 like you want to phrase it with getting Jerry Jarrett 130 00:06:38.519 --> 00:06:40.920 involved right in case goes to jail. 131 00:06:42.120 --> 00:06:45.040 Yes, yeah, that was because there's a lot of dispute 132 00:06:45.079 --> 00:06:47.040 over that, whether that's true or right. It's like, oh, 133 00:06:47.199 --> 00:06:50.120 you know, you get people said, now, now, Vince, that's 134 00:06:50.120 --> 00:06:51.839 not why he brought in Jerry Jarrett. It was he 135 00:06:51.920 --> 00:06:54.399 just kind of brought him in for advice. And it 136 00:06:54.480 --> 00:06:55.839 wasn't because he was going to jail. It was because 137 00:06:55.879 --> 00:06:57.399 he was going to jail. Of course, it was Vince. 138 00:06:57.800 --> 00:07:01.360 Vince was convinced, convinced that was going to be made 139 00:07:01.360 --> 00:07:06.800 an example of. So there had to be a contingency, right, 140 00:07:07.000 --> 00:07:10.000 and who I mean it was Jerry Jarrett the right option, 141 00:07:10.160 --> 00:07:13.439 probably not given the sort of style of wrestling he 142 00:07:13.480 --> 00:07:16.000 promoted and what Vince liked. And I don't think anyone 143 00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:18.920 could have really replaced Vince, you know, and been the Vince. 144 00:07:18.920 --> 00:07:20.639 It would have been Vince run from prison and everyone 145 00:07:20.639 --> 00:07:23.959 else just doing what what he said, but yeah, it 146 00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:26.240 was JJ wh wh who brought him in because he 147 00:07:26.319 --> 00:07:28.759 realized that Vince needed help. Amazing. 148 00:07:28.839 --> 00:07:33.399 So, Boss, have one quick question about Tom Pritchard. Now 149 00:07:34.439 --> 00:07:38.040 his his doctorate in desire? Is it an MD or 150 00:07:38.079 --> 00:07:39.040 a PhD? Do we know? 151 00:07:40.920 --> 00:07:42.399 I think he's got a master's degree. 152 00:07:42.480 --> 00:07:45.120 Yes, there we all right curious. 153 00:07:46.160 --> 00:07:48.160 Yeah, when he said it'll never it'll never come out, 154 00:07:48.199 --> 00:07:50.000 I was so deflated because I thought we'd finally get 155 00:07:50.000 --> 00:07:53.560 an answer to that long burning question relative to his CV. 156 00:07:53.399 --> 00:07:55.279 I'll confermo deny whether that's in the book. 157 00:07:55.279 --> 00:07:58.279 I'm afraid JP is going to turn it to you anyway, 158 00:07:58.319 --> 00:08:02.600 because someone else that that James spoke to was Harvey Goldsmith, 159 00:08:02.600 --> 00:08:05.399 who was involved a lot with bringing WWF to Wembley 160 00:08:05.399 --> 00:08:07.839 for SummerSlam ninety two and all of the UK tours 161 00:08:07.839 --> 00:08:10.040 and really kind of plugged in from the UK side 162 00:08:10.079 --> 00:08:13.879 when the rock and wrestling phenomenon began. We know, well, Boss, 163 00:08:13.959 --> 00:08:16.800 you know how prominent that era was for UK fans 164 00:08:16.800 --> 00:08:18.680 because we spent a lot of time talking about ninety 165 00:08:18.680 --> 00:08:21.000 one ninety two and so many of the listeners are 166 00:08:21.000 --> 00:08:21.519 from the UK. 167 00:08:22.279 --> 00:08:25.160 Oh, it's it's tremendous. I mean, we we've I've really 168 00:08:25.199 --> 00:08:27.079 gotten a whole new appreciation. I mean we have, not 169 00:08:27.160 --> 00:08:29.720 just me, but we've gotten a whole new appreciation for 170 00:08:30.399 --> 00:08:33.360 that that era, because there are so many shows that 171 00:08:33.440 --> 00:08:37.120 we have been led to and that we have now 172 00:08:37.360 --> 00:08:41.320 watched and reviewed that we didn't even know necessarily existed, 173 00:08:41.600 --> 00:08:43.600 you know, back then, at least not on tape. I 174 00:08:43.759 --> 00:08:50.639 always think of the the Battle Royal at the Alfred 175 00:08:50.679 --> 00:08:53.679 I said, Alfred Hall, like Alfred Hayes Lord, Alfred Hayes Hall, 176 00:08:55.080 --> 00:08:59.519 and it's I just I knew it was big, but 177 00:08:59.559 --> 00:09:01.600 I'm I really had no idea that it was as 178 00:09:01.600 --> 00:09:04.600 big as as its being described. It's really remarkable that 179 00:09:04.720 --> 00:09:09.039 it was kind of a mainstream thing as wrestling was 180 00:09:09.559 --> 00:09:12.559 kind of dying off in the States. You know. It's 181 00:09:12.720 --> 00:09:17.440 such a weird, kind of a weird juxtaposition to use 182 00:09:17.480 --> 00:09:18.039 that big word. 183 00:09:22.200 --> 00:09:26.559 I mean, with the UK, it did get start to 184 00:09:26.559 --> 00:09:28.720 get big in probably ninety and eighty nine, when they 185 00:09:28.799 --> 00:09:31.120 first came over and when it was on TV, and 186 00:09:32.000 --> 00:09:34.360 it was a strange thing over here because it was 187 00:09:34.399 --> 00:09:38.440 on TV on on different stations, so it kind of 188 00:09:38.440 --> 00:09:41.480 bounced around and everyone kind of wanted it, you know, 189 00:09:41.759 --> 00:09:44.600 and it became the thing for SkyTV over here to 190 00:09:44.679 --> 00:09:49.440 Laune Hull, Cogan was like front and center of SkyTV's 191 00:09:49.480 --> 00:09:52.559 launch alongside you know, Premier League football and movies. It 192 00:09:52.639 --> 00:09:55.399 was it was every bit as big and as big 193 00:09:55.440 --> 00:09:57.240 a part of the package that you had to pay 194 00:09:57.279 --> 00:10:00.080 for which was new over here. Then you know, it 195 00:10:00.120 --> 00:10:04.840 was huge. And Harvey Goldsmith very smart guy, you know, 196 00:10:05.360 --> 00:10:08.519 very you know, big name promoter over here, and he 197 00:10:08.519 --> 00:10:11.360 he saw it, you know, pretty quickly, and he made 198 00:10:11.360 --> 00:10:14.399 sure that he was the one, you know to get 199 00:10:14.399 --> 00:10:17.600 in there with w F and and you know, bring 200 00:10:17.720 --> 00:10:20.799 him over and even though that was the case, he 201 00:10:20.960 --> 00:10:23.799 was shocked when you know, Vince I think it was 202 00:10:23.840 --> 00:10:26.440 Vince called him direct or someone from Vince's office was like, 203 00:10:26.480 --> 00:10:29.279 can you get as Wembley And he's like, man, that's 204 00:10:29.279 --> 00:10:32.320 going to be that's going to be a challenge. That's 205 00:10:32.360 --> 00:10:35.480 going to be a challenge. He had, like he had 206 00:10:35.559 --> 00:10:38.399 booked Wembley before. There was a really famous concert over 207 00:10:38.440 --> 00:10:40.240 here called Live aid In. 208 00:10:42.519 --> 00:10:42.919 Concert. 209 00:10:43.080 --> 00:10:45.759 Yeah it still is like it's still like this iconic 210 00:10:45.960 --> 00:10:48.480 event and that and that was Harvey who was involved 211 00:10:48.519 --> 00:10:52.080 in that, and you know he took notice and he 212 00:10:52.480 --> 00:10:54.960 was well aware of what was going on here and 213 00:10:54.960 --> 00:10:57.440 and him and his team, you know, they wanted to 214 00:10:57.799 --> 00:10:59.360 they did want to bring it over and they and 215 00:10:59.399 --> 00:11:01.600 they did, and you know, he spoke to Hogan, he 216 00:11:01.639 --> 00:11:03.639 spoke to you know a lot of the guys. He 217 00:11:03.679 --> 00:11:06.559 became friendly with them and they trusted him. And obviously 218 00:11:06.639 --> 00:11:08.600 he did great job over here because it was always 219 00:11:08.720 --> 00:11:11.000 always sold out like that, you couldn't get tickets. It 220 00:11:11.080 --> 00:11:14.519 was unbelievable how difficult it was, you know, the market 221 00:11:14.559 --> 00:11:18.759 for them, and it was. Yeah, he noticed how well 222 00:11:18.759 --> 00:11:20.519 it did on Sky. It was kind of the Simpsons 223 00:11:20.519 --> 00:11:22.840 and wf they were the two big things, right and 224 00:11:22.879 --> 00:11:27.559 then and I think he noticed there was a PR 225 00:11:27.720 --> 00:11:32.399 guy called Chris Pool and he had a business partner 226 00:11:32.399 --> 00:11:35.679 called Alan Edwards, and I think they'd been summoned to 227 00:11:35.679 --> 00:11:40.600 a meeting with Harvey. And he was like, right, it's 228 00:11:40.799 --> 00:11:42.559 we're bringing something over. And they were like, oh wow, 229 00:11:42.600 --> 00:11:45.600 the Rolling Stones or something. It's like it's wrestling and 230 00:11:45.679 --> 00:11:50.600 this and this. Chris Pool was like, Alan Edwards is 231 00:11:50.639 --> 00:11:52.600 like what the hell is this? And but Chris Poole 232 00:11:52.639 --> 00:11:56.279 was like, oh, my son is obsessed with wrestling, Like 233 00:11:56.320 --> 00:11:58.919 I know them all, Like I'm constantly subjected to it. 234 00:11:58.960 --> 00:12:03.039 On Sky. You know, so he took over the you know, 235 00:12:03.120 --> 00:12:04.840 being involved in that, and he was sort of a 236 00:12:04.840 --> 00:12:07.240 big champion of that, and you know, we talked to 237 00:12:07.320 --> 00:12:10.879 him as well as part of the book, and yeah, 238 00:12:10.879 --> 00:12:15.159 did they were I guess they were not surprised that 239 00:12:15.600 --> 00:12:17.799 Vince did Wembley. I wanted to do Wembley, but I 240 00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:20.600 don't know if they're entirely convinced that he could do it, 241 00:12:20.639 --> 00:12:22.879 but obviously it was no problem whatsoever. 242 00:12:23.600 --> 00:12:26.519 That's great color, yeah, because it is kind of a well, 243 00:12:26.519 --> 00:12:28.799 it's such a huge show and loom so large for 244 00:12:28.879 --> 00:12:31.399 any fan of the time, UK, US, wherever you may 245 00:12:31.399 --> 00:12:33.919 have been that Summer Slam ninety two show. It is 246 00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:36.120 kind of amazing that they pulled it off in that 247 00:12:36.200 --> 00:12:38.240 kind of a stadium at a time when they couldn't 248 00:12:38.240 --> 00:12:41.000 even reliably sell out Madison Square Garden back in the 249 00:12:41.120 --> 00:12:46.559 United States. So we watched that with wonder and I did. 250 00:12:47.039 --> 00:12:48.559 I don't know if you've gotten into this with with 251 00:12:48.600 --> 00:12:51.519 Harvey or any others, but you know, aw being able 252 00:12:51.519 --> 00:12:53.360 to do Wembley twice and they're going to do it 253 00:12:53.399 --> 00:12:56.679 again next year was definitely an eyebrow razer to me 254 00:12:56.720 --> 00:12:58.960 because I would figure that they would still have WW. 255 00:12:59.000 --> 00:13:00.799 You would still have the warm line to Wembley, even 256 00:13:00.799 --> 00:13:02.519 though you know as many times as they've been to 257 00:13:02.559 --> 00:13:05.240 the UK in Summer Slam nineteen ninety two, they've never 258 00:13:05.279 --> 00:13:08.120 gone back there. Do you have any sense of how 259 00:13:08.120 --> 00:13:10.559 AW was able to kind of get themselves into position 260 00:13:10.679 --> 00:13:13.360 with with Wembley Stadium that was such a huge coupe 261 00:13:13.360 --> 00:13:15.480 for them, and I would imagine if WW could, they 262 00:13:15.480 --> 00:13:16.240 would have stopped it. 263 00:13:17.440 --> 00:13:24.639 I think with Wembley it's a difficult stadium to run 264 00:13:25.120 --> 00:13:27.919 because of the weather, you know, so it's an open 265 00:13:27.960 --> 00:13:31.080 air stadium and certainly you know it's a different Wembley 266 00:13:31.120 --> 00:13:32.879 now than it was in ninety two. Minds you know 267 00:13:32.960 --> 00:13:35.440 they knocked it down and rebuilt it, but it's an 268 00:13:35.480 --> 00:13:40.600 open air stadium and the British weather is unpredictable, and right, Vince, 269 00:13:40.679 --> 00:13:42.879 certainly when he was in Church, isn't a big fan 270 00:13:42.919 --> 00:13:46.840 of unpredictable. And actually in the it's in the book. 271 00:13:47.000 --> 00:13:49.639 They actually secretly and I didn't realize this until I 272 00:13:49.639 --> 00:13:52.639 was researching the book, had the next day booked as 273 00:13:52.639 --> 00:13:56.440 well in case it rained, even though it's August time, 274 00:13:56.639 --> 00:13:59.840 peak of British summer. I can assure you that does 275 00:14:00.080 --> 00:14:01.960 not matter. It can rain and it does. 276 00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:07.200 Isn't it ironic that a guy like you said, Vince 277 00:14:08.039 --> 00:14:11.039 like he needs predictability, but here's a guy who is 278 00:14:11.159 --> 00:14:14.840 known for his unpredictable nature and changing his mind all 279 00:14:14.879 --> 00:14:15.360 the time. 280 00:14:16.039 --> 00:14:18.639 Yeah, the irony isn't it is? 281 00:14:18.759 --> 00:14:20.559 Absolutely? Is it hilarious? 282 00:14:21.000 --> 00:14:23.879 But they did have, like I say, the next day booked. 283 00:14:23.919 --> 00:14:25.759 And that's actually why it was shown on tape delay 284 00:14:26.279 --> 00:14:28.519 rather than than air in live is because not just 285 00:14:28.559 --> 00:14:31.120 because of the time difference that that wasn't a huge concern. 286 00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:33.120 It was in case they had to do it the 287 00:14:33.200 --> 00:14:35.759 next day, you know. They they were worried about that, 288 00:14:35.919 --> 00:14:38.360 the potential of the rain. But as for a w 289 00:14:39.159 --> 00:14:43.320 I mean there's I don't think w is overly concerned 290 00:14:43.519 --> 00:14:46.519 because there's other stadiums over here that they can run, 291 00:14:46.600 --> 00:14:50.759 and some of them, quite frankly, are probably better. Like 292 00:14:50.919 --> 00:14:53.799 there's there's another one in London called the Tottenham Hotspurs Stadium, 293 00:14:53.799 --> 00:14:58.000 which is a brand new stadium. It's where it's where 294 00:14:58.000 --> 00:15:00.960 all your big sort of stars will now go and perform, 295 00:15:01.080 --> 00:15:04.519 sure sometimes ahead of Wembley, partly because it's a little 296 00:15:04.519 --> 00:15:06.279 bit cheaper to run as well, but it's just a better, 297 00:15:06.320 --> 00:15:10.159 more modern stadium. And we also need to remember that 298 00:15:10.279 --> 00:15:12.759 Tony kan is the own's Fulham Football clubs, right, which 299 00:15:12.840 --> 00:15:16.919 is based in London, and so he has connections Wembley 300 00:15:17.039 --> 00:15:22.000 is I believe it's owned by the Football Association over here, 301 00:15:23.320 --> 00:15:26.159 so he's got going to have connections via that route, 302 00:15:26.159 --> 00:15:29.159 you know, from in a non wrestling perspective. And plus, 303 00:15:29.240 --> 00:15:31.639 it's like any building, anyone can book it, you just 304 00:15:31.639 --> 00:15:34.720 have to pay the fee, and WWE are not doing that. 305 00:15:34.919 --> 00:15:38.039 WWE are getting paid by cities to run which is 306 00:15:38.399 --> 00:15:42.039 completely different. So I'm Wembley and London are not going 307 00:15:42.120 --> 00:15:44.320 to pay WWE the amount of money that they want 308 00:15:44.360 --> 00:15:46.240 for like a rest in or whatever it might be. 309 00:15:47.000 --> 00:15:49.240 And aw were quite happy to just go, look, we'll 310 00:15:49.279 --> 00:15:51.600 just pay the building fee and and run the run 311 00:15:51.639 --> 00:15:54.519 the show. And obviously it makes them. It's worth it 312 00:15:54.519 --> 00:15:57.559 for a w as a you know, less established identity 313 00:15:57.639 --> 00:16:00.960 to do that because it makes them look good. It's, 314 00:16:01.159 --> 00:16:03.240 you know, it's a perception thing, isn't it. If you 315 00:16:03.279 --> 00:16:06.679 run Wembley Stadium, it's huge And obviously it was huge 316 00:16:06.679 --> 00:16:09.679 for them, so he doesn't really need that anymore, and 317 00:16:09.720 --> 00:16:12.080 it very much would just be giving a nod to 318 00:16:12.120 --> 00:16:16.320 nostalgia for people, you know, fans like me who remember 319 00:16:16.440 --> 00:16:19.360 ninety ninety two, and they don't really care about that, 320 00:16:19.480 --> 00:16:21.799 if I'm honest, they don't. What they care about is 321 00:16:21.840 --> 00:16:25.200 the making money and being paid to do these you know, 322 00:16:25.240 --> 00:16:26.440 big p L shows that they do. 323 00:16:26.519 --> 00:16:31.840 Now, that's definitely a shift, and I wonder, you know, 324 00:16:31.879 --> 00:16:34.039 I remember when they had when they announced the Wembley 325 00:16:34.039 --> 00:16:35.639 Show and they had John Cena go on the ring 326 00:16:35.679 --> 00:16:37.679 at the Money in the Bank Show and tease people 327 00:16:37.679 --> 00:16:40.720 that wrestle Meani would come to Wembley. And then they 328 00:16:41.000 --> 00:16:43.879 took it away from New Orleans because Vegas was willing 329 00:16:43.919 --> 00:16:45.759 to pay up. And now they're going to Saudi because 330 00:16:45.799 --> 00:16:48.279 no one can match that that whatever that check is 331 00:16:48.320 --> 00:16:50.320 going to look like. Do you think we'll ever get out. 332 00:16:50.759 --> 00:16:55.320 Years, Yeah, it will. If not, it'll it'll go to 333 00:16:55.399 --> 00:16:57.840 these other you know, rich nations who are willing to 334 00:16:57.840 --> 00:17:02.440 pay for it for whatever, you know, reasons, political reasons 335 00:17:02.440 --> 00:17:05.759 that they have wanted to do it, and I can't 336 00:17:05.759 --> 00:17:08.319 see it. I think logistically it's quite difficult to do 337 00:17:08.359 --> 00:17:10.119 it over here because you've got to think it's you've 338 00:17:10.160 --> 00:17:12.319 got to get not only the wrestlers, but also the crew, 339 00:17:12.359 --> 00:17:14.359 which obviously they do for twours, but WrestleMania is a 340 00:17:14.400 --> 00:17:17.480 bit different and it's a lot bigger, and then you've got, 341 00:17:17.720 --> 00:17:21.960 you know, all the the other buildings around WrestleMania that 342 00:17:21.960 --> 00:17:24.720 you're gonna need for Rahm SmackDown, and logistically it's quite 343 00:17:24.720 --> 00:17:27.680 tricky I think for them to do that, and I 344 00:17:27.680 --> 00:17:30.000 think London would pay for it, but not the money 345 00:17:30.039 --> 00:17:33.880 that they're looking for. So I'd be shocked if WrestleMania 346 00:17:33.880 --> 00:17:36.079 ever came to London unless they do what I think 347 00:17:36.079 --> 00:17:39.759 they are going to do, which has run multiple WrestleManias 348 00:17:39.759 --> 00:17:43.680 a year. Oh God, WrestleMania Europe, WrestleMania, Saudi WrestleMania US. 349 00:17:43.720 --> 00:17:47.319 You know you're looking forward to that to be surprised me. 350 00:17:47.480 --> 00:17:49.960 Well, honestly, I'm kind of thinking that that that next 351 00:17:50.039 --> 00:17:53.359 year is going to be the last WrestleMania forever and 352 00:17:53.400 --> 00:17:55.240 from now on it's just going to be Saudi Mania. 353 00:17:56.519 --> 00:17:59.599 A good chance. What a business. 354 00:17:59.759 --> 00:18:02.720 So when you when they did that tease with Sina 355 00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:04.880 and money in the bank, where did your head go 356 00:18:04.960 --> 00:18:06.400 to as to where they might do it if they 357 00:18:06.400 --> 00:18:07.359 did bring it to London? 358 00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:10.599 What stadium? Oh? I just thought they were blowing smoke. 359 00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:12.160 I didn't think for a second they were going to 360 00:18:12.240 --> 00:18:14.039 do it. And that's a. 361 00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:16.839 Bad thing to get those people that excited. And then yeah, 362 00:18:16.839 --> 00:18:17.880 that's a bad idea. 363 00:18:18.359 --> 00:18:21.880 Yeah, they like to have something at the PLS. Now, 364 00:18:21.920 --> 00:18:23.720 Like if I don't know if I'm sure you guys 365 00:18:23.720 --> 00:18:27.480 have watched the the Unreal series that they did and 366 00:18:27.480 --> 00:18:29.839 and I think Nick can't say something there about you know, 367 00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:32.599 they want something to make it matter. It's something along 368 00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:34.680 those lines. It was the one in Toronto with the 369 00:18:34.759 --> 00:18:37.079 rock and like what can we do to make it memorable? 370 00:18:37.119 --> 00:18:39.319 And all this kind of stuff, and they always want 371 00:18:39.359 --> 00:18:42.319 something like that, some hook, and I think that's just 372 00:18:42.319 --> 00:18:43.880 what that was. It's like, oh, he's John Cena and 373 00:18:43.920 --> 00:18:45.720 announced and he's going to promise you all this stuff 374 00:18:45.720 --> 00:18:47.680 and you know everyone's going to rah rah for John 375 00:18:47.720 --> 00:18:50.400 Cena and wow, brilliant do to me and get some 376 00:18:50.440 --> 00:18:51.200 great headlines. 377 00:18:51.240 --> 00:18:55.519 And but I'm pretty sure it was right after a 378 00:18:55.640 --> 00:18:57.279 w would announced they were going to Wembley that they 379 00:18:57.279 --> 00:18:58.480 did that they were regotten too. 380 00:18:58.640 --> 00:19:01.240 That that was my recollection. That's the game, isn't it. 381 00:19:02.200 --> 00:19:04.759 That's always been the game? Doesn't that used to be 382 00:19:04.839 --> 00:19:08.960 Vince's game and you know Paula vexl learnt very well. 383 00:19:08.799 --> 00:19:11.880 Yes he did in any ways, So it's great to 384 00:19:11.880 --> 00:19:14.559 get that insight in the book Titan Shrinking into you 385 00:19:14.559 --> 00:19:17.359 know what some of the promoter types in the UK 386 00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:20.720 thought about bringing Summer Slam there. We all remember that 387 00:19:20.759 --> 00:19:23.480 show so fondly in the States, let alone to be 388 00:19:23.680 --> 00:19:25.319 to be in England. I mean, where were you at 389 00:19:25.359 --> 00:19:27.559 at the time, James, Were you trying to get in? 390 00:19:27.680 --> 00:19:30.559 Were you too small to even consider going? What was 391 00:19:30.599 --> 00:19:31.440 it like in ninety two? 392 00:19:32.839 --> 00:19:35.240 So in ninety two, I'd have been eight years old 393 00:19:36.440 --> 00:19:40.759 and I was very much super fan. But by the 394 00:19:40.839 --> 00:19:44.119 time I because news traveled slow right back in the day, 395 00:19:44.160 --> 00:19:46.160 and I live quite a long way outside of London 396 00:19:46.160 --> 00:19:49.160 as well, about four hours away from London, so which 397 00:19:49.200 --> 00:19:50.440 I know in the US is nothing, but in the 398 00:19:50.519 --> 00:19:53.200 UK that's about as far as you can get, so right, 399 00:19:53.359 --> 00:19:55.680 you know, it's quite it's quite a distance over here, 400 00:19:56.039 --> 00:19:59.200 and we don't have great well we didn't certainly have 401 00:19:59.279 --> 00:20:04.039