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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to the program. It is a great honor and privilege.

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<v Speaker 1>You get a man I've known for a long time,

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<v Speaker 1>ran into him in a ton of industry events, but

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<v Speaker 1>got to know a little better over the last weekend

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<v Speaker 1>mister whitetail himself, Larry Wazoom, And this guy has really

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<v Speaker 1>had an incredible impact on the whitetail world in terms

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<v Speaker 1>of inspiring people to take up the hunting and conservation

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<v Speaker 1>of whitetail wild lands and just really helped a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of people, including myself, have a better understanding of the

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<v Speaker 1>majestic game animals. So welcome to the program, Larry.

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<v Speaker 2>Chester, Thank you so very much. I'm not sure I

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<v Speaker 2>can live up to that introduction after that, hold me

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<v Speaker 2>twenty bucks, you got it? I think I owe you more.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, Larry.

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<v Speaker 1>Over the weekend we were talking about like whitetail subspecies,

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<v Speaker 1>and I think for the most part, most hunters in

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<v Speaker 1>America just think of the whitetail just being a whitetail.

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<v Speaker 1>But that is a species. But there are many subspecies

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<v Speaker 1>of white tail. Can you kind of explain what a

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<v Speaker 1>subspecies is?

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<v Speaker 2>The subspecies is essentially the same species that's learned how

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<v Speaker 2>to adapt to certain parameters, certain weather conditions, certain climate conditions,

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<v Speaker 2>if you will, and different types of habitat. Here in Texas,

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<v Speaker 2>we're so very blessed to have a great variety of habitat,

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<v Speaker 2>from the piney woods of East Texas to the Real

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<v Speaker 2>Grand Plains, to the coastal plains, to the central part

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<v Speaker 2>of the state of Texas hill country, even out in

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<v Speaker 2>the far western part of the state and the mountain

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<v Speaker 2>country and then up in the Panattle in North Texas,

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<v Speaker 2>and a lot of those areas are different, and basically

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<v Speaker 2>some of those areas do have different subspecies of white

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<v Speaker 2>tail deer here in Texas. Of course, there are a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of different subspecies. I think. I think someone said

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<v Speaker 2>they're like thirty one subspecies of whitetail deer scattered across

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<v Speaker 2>in North America, and I think we've got probably about

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<v Speaker 2>four or five of those for certain here in Texas.

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<v Speaker 2>But it's just simply an animal that in a regional

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<v Speaker 2>area adapts to those circumstances that it has to live with.

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<v Speaker 2>It creates a subspecies.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, and that's a great way to explain that,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, because it is a white tail. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>a whitetail from New York can breed with one in Mexico,

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<v Speaker 1>but there are definitely, you know, morphological differences, slight differences

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<v Speaker 1>because of diet, habitat and that kind of stuff.

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<v Speaker 3>And what really got.

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<v Speaker 1>Me going down this trail, Larry was just looking at

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<v Speaker 1>a map a long time ago, and it had whitetail

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<v Speaker 1>subspecies distribution and it had the Carmen Mountains white tail

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<v Speaker 1>on it in Texas, and it described it as being

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<v Speaker 1>the second smallest subspecies of whitetail, next to the key deer,

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<v Speaker 1>which is a little bitty guy that's a federally in

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<v Speaker 1>endangered species only lives in the southern half of the

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<v Speaker 1>Florida Keys.

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<v Speaker 3>And when I.

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<v Speaker 1>Was talking to you, you got to go hunt these

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<v Speaker 1>farm in Mountain white t tell us a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>about that animal and their habitat.

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<v Speaker 2>Basically, there exist in the far western part of Texas

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<v Speaker 2>above the elevation of forty five hundred feet. Now, there's

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<v Speaker 2>some areas that claim they have Carmen Nins's white tail,

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<v Speaker 2>but actually they're the Texas Nins's subspecies. The animal is

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<v Speaker 2>relatively small, as you mentioned, I would almost in a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of instances kind of argue whether they're the smallest

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<v Speaker 2>pretending particularly in certain areas of Texas and New Mexico,

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<v Speaker 2>and they exist primarily in that Big Bend area and

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<v Speaker 2>then down into Mexico. And they were named after the

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<v Speaker 2>Carmen Mountain area down in Mexico's where the subspecies name

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<v Speaker 2>came from. Excuse me, They are the ones that I've hunted,

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<v Speaker 2>and I was very fortunate the first time I got

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<v Speaker 2>a chance to hunt them was back in nineteen seventy

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<v Speaker 2>seventy one down in the Kannati Mountains and was able

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<v Speaker 2>to take a little buck little in terms of antlers.

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<v Speaker 2>He was a pretty good sized for corn. He was

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<v Speaker 2>a six year old deer and intact that deer play

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<v Speaker 2>might have weighed sixty to sixty five pounds in that

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<v Speaker 2>area too. Throughout that western part of the state, they're

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<v Speaker 2>also known as fantails, and the reading they're coffee tails

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<v Speaker 2>is because their tail is actually bigger than the regular

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<v Speaker 2>white tail deer if you will, that we have as

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<v Speaker 2>primary the Texas subspecies, And when it puts that tail

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<v Speaker 2>up and runs away from me, it really looks like

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<v Speaker 2>one of the old time sailing ships of your you know,

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<v Speaker 2>huge flag, And so they're really a truly unique animal.

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<v Speaker 2>Their antlers tend to of course be smaller because of

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<v Speaker 2>the body size being smaller. But again they're found primarily

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<v Speaker 2>in those areas above forty five hundred feet of elevation,

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<v Speaker 2>and I know that over the years there have been

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<v Speaker 2>some people that have claimed there around Del Rio and

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<v Speaker 2>some of those areas that those are Carmens's white tail,

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<v Speaker 2>but they're not. They're not truly the true true Carmens

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<v Speaker 2>species that found in the western part of the state

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<v Speaker 2>and down and make.

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<v Speaker 1>That is uh, that's really cool to be able to,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, think about that because a lot of people

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<v Speaker 1>listening and go, hold on, you got forty five hundred

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<v Speaker 1>ft elevation in Texas.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, we do. Yes, we actually have higher places than that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, in the Davis Mountains, Guadaloupe's and places like that,

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<v Speaker 1>and so that is a that's a really interesting thing

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<v Speaker 1>to think about, that little difference in that area that

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<v Speaker 1>really a lot of people will never even see because

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<v Speaker 1>of the remote nature.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, you're exactly right. And what's interesting about some

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<v Speaker 2>of those areas, particularly like down in the Shinnats, which

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<v Speaker 2>is a mountain range that's right along the Rio Grande

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<v Speaker 2>kind of northwest, probably of the Big Ben National Park.

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<v Speaker 2>In that particular area, at the very highest of those hills,

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<v Speaker 2>mountains whatever you want to call them, they're actually mountain

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<v Speaker 2>because they are well above forty five hundred feet, you'll

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<v Speaker 2>find a little carmenencous white tail species there. Then you'll

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<v Speaker 2>find the mule deer just down below, and then you

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<v Speaker 2>get down in the flats, and also down in the flats,

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<v Speaker 2>you'll there you'll find the Texas subspecies. So in some

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<v Speaker 2>of those areas of West Texas, we actually have two subspecies,

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<v Speaker 2>the white tail deer and the desert mule. Here the

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<v Speaker 2>kruk Ie subspecies all found on the same mountain range,

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<v Speaker 2>starting at the top of the Carmenensis and you kind

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<v Speaker 2>of run into the Texas white tails and a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of times the mute there. They're restricted kind of to

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<v Speaker 2>the flats and also the foothill those mountains.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow, what biodiversity, you know? It is The green world

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<v Speaker 1>likes to talk about biodiversity, but I think a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of times we hunters are the ones who celebrated the

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<v Speaker 1>most by being enamored by my Lord. Is a small

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<v Speaker 1>area here with two subspecies of whitetail and mule deer

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<v Speaker 1>how cool is that.

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<v Speaker 2>It really is where I got familiar or when I

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<v Speaker 2>first learned about the Carmen Mountain white tails as many

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<v Speaker 2>years ago, back in the probably in the nineteen late

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen fifties nineteen six there is an outdoor writer named

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<v Speaker 2>Byron Dalrymple who was originally from Michigan. He was a musician,

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<v Speaker 2>among other things, and he moved to Texas and every

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<v Speaker 2>year he would go out to the area between Alpine

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<v Speaker 2>and Marfa and hunt on what was then a huge

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<v Speaker 2>ranch called the Cattle Gauge. And of course he would

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<v Speaker 2>write about the adventures of that hunt in phases of

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<v Speaker 2>outdoor Life, primarily with other places as well too, and

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<v Speaker 2>he would talk about the little fantails that existed at

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<v Speaker 2>the very tops of those mountains, and then our regular

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<v Speaker 2>white tail O Texas subspecies, but also the desert mutlitary

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<v Speaker 2>that really has kind of got me interested, what got

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<v Speaker 2>me interested in it. And then as a wildypologist, on

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<v Speaker 2>that first hunt, I was able to take my first carmenensus.

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<v Speaker 2>And again one thing I noticed is their tales were

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<v Speaker 2>so much longer. I've heard it said, although I can't

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<v Speaker 2>prove it scientifically that they actually have one more vertebrate

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<v Speaker 2>in their tail, and that's what causes that extension of

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<v Speaker 2>that tale.

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<v Speaker 3>Very well, that's true or not.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know. There's been some work done in the past.

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<v Speaker 2>I think I made you aware of two monographs that

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<v Speaker 2>were done. One was done down in the Big Ben

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<v Speaker 2>National Park itself, and then the other one was done

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<v Speaker 2>by two professors, Professor Craftsman and doctor Ernie Abels, because

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<v Speaker 2>doctor Abels was one of my professors at Texas A

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<v Speaker 2>and M while I was there going to school for

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<v Speaker 2>wildlife management. And I remember sitting and talking with him

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<v Speaker 2>after I saw those stories and asking him about it,

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<v Speaker 2>and I think that was one of the things that

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<v Speaker 2>kind of created the interest of trying for him to

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<v Speaker 2>try to do more work out there.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh that's great stuff, and learn more about these great animals.

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<v Speaker 3>You know.

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<v Speaker 1>That's kind of like other than you know, the Grand

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<v Speaker 1>Slam or the finas, you know, the pursuit of the

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<v Speaker 1>North American Wild cheap Carmen Mountain to.

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<v Speaker 3>Be like way up on my list of fun and.

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<v Speaker 1>Stuff now And maybe if you get that, I get

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<v Speaker 1>a skull them out and then get the tail mounted

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<v Speaker 1>out on its own on a plaque or something.

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<v Speaker 3>You know that'd be very Texas right there.

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<v Speaker 2>But it would be I'll tell you because their tails

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<v Speaker 2>of the mentioner huge, their skulls because of their overall

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<v Speaker 2>body size. If you put a Carmen Ensa's skull and

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<v Speaker 2>I wish I still had mine mine, someone somewhere got

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<v Speaker 2>lost in a move or two, particularly back when we

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<v Speaker 2>were doing a bunch of stuff with we had Low

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<v Speaker 2>s Cotta the doors hunting headquarters there in Paris. All

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<v Speaker 2>I had it there for a while. But if you

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<v Speaker 2>were taking Carmen Mountain white tail skull and put it

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<v Speaker 2>next to a South Texas white tail, and I'm talking

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<v Speaker 2>about an animal that will probably field dress one seventy

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<v Speaker 2>ar better. The difference in those skulls is it would

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<v Speaker 2>probably be about two thirds smaller or a third again larger,

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<v Speaker 2>depending on what you know, your perspective, kind of thing,

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<v Speaker 2>which one you're looking at. But their sculpts are quite

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<v Speaker 2>small compared to even our Texas hill country.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, we come back on More Outdoors. We'll talk more

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<v Speaker 1>with Larry Wai Zoom. Welcome back to More Outdoors on

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<v Speaker 1>News Talk five sixty KLVI. This is Chester Moore continuing

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<v Speaker 1>our conversation about whitetail subspecies with Larry Wizooon. Very interesting

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<v Speaker 1>stuff and what got me on this trailer talking with

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<v Speaker 1>you about smaller whitetail was something that happened to me

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<v Speaker 1>when I was a kid, and my uncle, Jackie Moore,

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<v Speaker 1>the late Jackie Moore, would tell me several times. I

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<v Speaker 1>remember being hunting on my first hill country deer hunt

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<v Speaker 1>because I lived and I still live in Orange County,

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<v Speaker 1>and I didn't see a deer till I was twelve

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<v Speaker 1>and went to the hill country there word of hardly

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<v Speaker 1>any deer here locally, and I was with my dad

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<v Speaker 1>and my uncle. This one evening, I was hunting my

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<v Speaker 1>uncle and kind of walking out on the main road

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<v Speaker 1>of the ranch, the Winkle Ranch and Old Daily's Atlanta

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<v Speaker 1>out toward the stand. My uncle told me that when

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<v Speaker 1>they hunted in San Saba, they he saw this little

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<v Speaker 1>buck a couple of times that was like he said,

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<v Speaker 1>it was like the size of like a you know,

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<v Speaker 1>a labrador dog hype maybe you're a little smaller and

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<v Speaker 1>had a full eight point rack. Just really stuck with me. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>my uncle passed about thirteen fourteen years ago. At his funeral,

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<v Speaker 1>we're talking about hunting and I said, hey, Dad, did

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<v Speaker 1>Uncle Jackie ever tell you about that deer on the

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<v Speaker 1>San sabage, because oh, I was on the same lease,

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<v Speaker 1>and I saw some of those deer too, and I

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<v Speaker 1>saw when I told you this story, you kind of

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<v Speaker 1>lighting up. And you have an experience from back in

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<v Speaker 1>the nineteen seventies of a small deer also in San

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<v Speaker 1>Saba County.

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<v Speaker 2>I do years ago I started to at a wildife

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<v Speaker 2>a dis ease specialists working under contract with the Texas

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<v Speaker 2>Parks and Wilife Department and the Department of in Air Pathology,

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<v Speaker 2>and we were out in San Sabin also in Atlantoak County,

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<v Speaker 2>collecting deer for a variety of purposes, among other lazies,

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<v Speaker 2>nutrition and trying to get general help on some of

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<v Speaker 2>those deer and try to get some baseline information as

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<v Speaker 2>far as blood and all those other kind of good

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<v Speaker 2>things that we were doing at the time. And I

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<v Speaker 2>ended up shooting a deer, a buck standing by himself.

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<v Speaker 2>I noticed he was kind of small standing there and

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<v Speaker 2>shot him. And then when I walked up to him,

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<v Speaker 2>that's when I realized that this dear, it was about

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<v Speaker 2>the size as you mentioned, like a Collie dog or

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<v Speaker 2>a retriever and full body size, he would have not

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<v Speaker 2>weighed fifty maybe somewhere between fifty and sixty pounds. Back

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<v Speaker 2>then I used to picking up a lot of fifty pounds,

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<v Speaker 2>and this one felt no heavier at all than that one.

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<v Speaker 2>We ended up taking all kinds of tissues from him,

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<v Speaker 2>and it was a regular white tail deer. But he

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<v Speaker 2>was just one of those deer that for whatever reason,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe a dwarf version of one, or for whatever reason,

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<v Speaker 2>greatly reduced size. The one too where he reminded me

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<v Speaker 2>very much later when I was able to take or

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<v Speaker 2>not that much later, when I took my first carmon

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<v Speaker 2>Mountain whitetail in size, they were pretty darn similar.

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<v Speaker 1>That's intriguing, Like I've heard this story in my whole life,

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<v Speaker 1>and you know, my dad saw him, my uncle Sam.

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<v Speaker 1>And then when I did a little write up on

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<v Speaker 1>this for Texas Fishing Games, someone emailed me from Saba

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<v Speaker 1>that's been seeing one the last three years and so

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<v Speaker 1>in sin Saba County.

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<v Speaker 3>So from a.

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<v Speaker 1>Biologist perspective, is it possible that it could be some

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<v Speaker 1>that have like some kind of a dwarfism or something

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<v Speaker 1>that gets passed on in the little pockets.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, it certainly could be because you look at

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<v Speaker 2>the white tailed are and we're talking about subspecies as

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<v Speaker 2>well too. A lot of times it is somewhat of

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<v Speaker 2>an isolated area, but sometimes two. You know, strange things

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<v Speaker 2>happen in nature, and even like within humans, there is

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<v Speaker 2>that opportunity with the right connection of genes coming together,

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<v Speaker 2>chromosomes coming together, and all that kind of stuff where

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<v Speaker 2>people don't grow to the normal height of others, and

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<v Speaker 2>so I suspect it's something very similar to that. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't really think it's a subspecies.

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<v Speaker 3>I think just.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe in an area. You know, in breeding can do,

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<v Speaker 2>or very intensive line breeding can do all kinds of things.

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<v Speaker 2>Going back to looking at looking at some of the

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<v Speaker 2>dog the different breeds of dogs, you know there'll be

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<v Speaker 2>a three to and you've got a miniature one, and

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<v Speaker 2>you've got and if you get the right combinations, you

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<v Speaker 2>know you can reproduce those. And same thing like with

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<v Speaker 2>with looking at Herford cattle and Angus cattle years ago,

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<v Speaker 2>and they were very intensively you know, lane breeding. All

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<v Speaker 2>of a sudden they started having dwarf not only dwarf calves,

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<v Speaker 2>but that never really grew. So I suspect something along

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<v Speaker 2>those lines gonna happen. You know, those populations way back

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<v Speaker 2>when we're market hunting for the market quite a bit

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<v Speaker 2>and people lived off of venison. I mean that didn't

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<v Speaker 2>have anything else. You know, there's take a deer SA

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<v Speaker 2>could have reduced that population to a relatively small number.

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<v Speaker 2>And because of that, there may have been some very

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<v Speaker 2>intensive of inbreeding or line breeding if you will, could

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<v Speaker 2>have produced that and could produce that kind of deer.

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<v Speaker 3>No, it's interesting stuff. I just made my day.

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<v Speaker 1>It's like, all of a sudden, like a mystery if

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<v Speaker 1>my whole life has been verified. So that's the kind

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<v Speaker 1>of thing I live for as a journalist of all

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<v Speaker 1>things wildlife, fishing and hunting.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm like, oh, cool story.

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<v Speaker 1>But you know, going along with this idea of subspecies,

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<v Speaker 1>I live here on the Texas Gulf Coast. I live

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<v Speaker 1>in Orange County here and not directly on the coast,

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<v Speaker 1>but Sabine Lake, our northernmost bay system, is here, and

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<v Speaker 1>I'm only forty minutes from the Gulf itself, and the

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<v Speaker 1>subspecies that here is the Avery Island whitetail. And these

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<v Speaker 1>guys go up through like maybe up in a Newton

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<v Speaker 1>Jasper County down to Matagorda all the way across toward

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<v Speaker 1>Avery Island in Louisiana over toward like the a Chapelaya Basin.

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<v Speaker 1>And have you ever had any experience hunting whitetail along

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<v Speaker 1>that part of the coast.

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<v Speaker 2>I have kind of on the on the lower end

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<v Speaker 2>of that. I've taken several deer in that area. And

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<v Speaker 2>one of the things that I want to ask you

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<v Speaker 2>about when is the when does the breeding season occur

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<v Speaker 2>in your area?

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<v Speaker 1>All right, that is a great question because it's early,

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<v Speaker 1>so there are deer right along the coastal area and

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<v Speaker 1>there's not a lot of deer like done in Jefferson

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<v Speaker 1>County on the coast on that little pocket, it's just

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<v Speaker 1>so marshy. There's some and those suckers will rut like

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<v Speaker 1>in September, the middle of September.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, sir, there is an area on the on the

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<v Speaker 2>lower end of that Avery Alven whitetail there where we've

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<v Speaker 2>seen bucks chasing does at the third week in August. Wow,

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<v Speaker 2>you know me. And that's one of the readings I

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<v Speaker 2>ask you went there because that particular subspecies generally has

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<v Speaker 2>a tendency to rut it's probably the earliest rut that

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<v Speaker 2>we have in Texas of our Texas deer. Yeah, interesting

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<v Speaker 2>about the reading the ruta. The reading season occurs when

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<v Speaker 2>it does is so that two hundred and thirty days

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<v Speaker 2>later massa manus. Those funds are born at the most

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<v Speaker 2>opportune time as far as nutrition is concerned. So you know,

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<v Speaker 2>if you go back probably to eons, go to maybe

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<v Speaker 2>as long until we introduced agriculture into that area, those

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<v Speaker 2>funds were being born at a certain time. And there

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<v Speaker 2>were two parameters that came into play with peak fawning

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<v Speaker 2>times in Texas, one of course being the ideal time

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<v Speaker 2>for nutrition. The second thing was is because the number

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<v Speaker 2>of screwworm flies that we used to have many many

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<v Speaker 2>years ago, if those funds, regardless where they were in Texas,

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<v Speaker 2>were not born pretty much in about a two week period,

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<v Speaker 2>the chances of their survival was extremely low because just

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<v Speaker 2>about time that naval cord was about to fall off,

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<v Speaker 2>the screw worm fly would lay eggs and that pupas

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<v Speaker 2>that developed, would essentially just eat that animal from inside out.

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<v Speaker 2>And it wasn't until back in the late nineteen sixties

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<v Speaker 2>that they kind of more or less eradicated or I

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<v Speaker 2>guess they did eradicate the screw and fly here in Texas,

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<v Speaker 2>and so that started making a few different changes. But

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<v Speaker 2>again going back to that Avery Allen white tail, they

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<v Speaker 2>were born, they had bringing through the occurred, it did,

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<v Speaker 2>so they were born at the most opportunity time. But

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<v Speaker 2>also I'm sure coming into play was a screwing worm

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<v Speaker 2>situation that we had back until about the middle nineteen sixties.

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<v Speaker 3>Very interesting.

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<v Speaker 1>And the reason I said, like around September fifteenth because

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<v Speaker 1>I remember the first time I encountered on this about

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<v Speaker 1>this early what I was teal hunting, and it was

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<v Speaker 1>toward the middle of teal season. I'm looking out there

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<v Speaker 1>south of Winnie, Texas, Yes, and like we're in the

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<v Speaker 1>blind and there's a buck chasing a dough Like, whoa

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<v Speaker 1>hold on, man, PayPal, you're a little bit early, aren't you.

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<v Speaker 1>But I looked around I saw that, you know, along

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<v Speaker 1>the Texas coast had some of the earliest ruts in America,

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<v Speaker 1>which is and that's really interesting about like that prime

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<v Speaker 1>time for you know, having the fawns and fawn survival

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<v Speaker 1>in that window, so really interesting stuff. And a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of these little bucks down here in this region, like

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<v Speaker 1>I've seen more in the last couple of years over

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<v Speaker 1>on the Louisiana side, and they have real baskety type racks,

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<v Speaker 1>like little baskety type thick ant but real baskety type racks.

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<v Speaker 1>But they really live in some dense like those shineer areas,

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<v Speaker 1>like they're covered that they do have in those areas

365
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<v Speaker 1>is really dense cover, so it makes sense kind of

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<v Speaker 1>have a little baskety rack to get through that.

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<v Speaker 2>You're exactly right, and to a great extent, I think

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<v Speaker 2>that somewhat can is what you mentioned there. The type

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<v Speaker 2>of habitat and type of terrain and type of vegetation

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<v Speaker 2>they live in. That's, to me is one of the

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<v Speaker 2>great reasons why you do have those type type racks

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<v Speaker 2>as opposed to with because if you had a bucket,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, on one of those deer there and he's

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<v Speaker 2>trying to run through what he has to run through,

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<v Speaker 2>and he's got a twenty inch spread, that probably wouldn't

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<v Speaker 2>go very well. Yeah, this way, those those antlers are

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<v Speaker 2>about here with maybe a little bit outside at the

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<v Speaker 2>greatest outside of the ears, so there's always it's like

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<v Speaker 2>he's got he's got a measure there that he can

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<v Speaker 2>run through kind of thing, you knowing that he's not

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<v Speaker 2>going to get hung up.

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<v Speaker 1>So come back on More those will talk more white

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<v Speaker 1>Tails with Larry bai Zoom Welcome back to More Outdoors

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<v Speaker 1>on News Talk five sixty klv I. Such an honor

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<v Speaker 1>and privilege of Larry Wyzoom on the program, one of

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<v Speaker 1>the most widely known respected deer experts on the planet,

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<v Speaker 1>talking everything from whitetail subspecies that is unusual white tails,

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<v Speaker 1>and this part of the conversation was one of my

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<v Speaker 1>absolute favorites talking with Larry Wyzoom.

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<v Speaker 2>I suspect Mother Nature has selected over the years for

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<v Speaker 2>those kind of racks as opposed to anything with any

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<v Speaker 2>great amount.

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<v Speaker 3>Of whip neat neat animals.

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<v Speaker 1>Now we have the course the Texas whitetail, which is

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<v Speaker 1>very widely distributed, and if I'm correct, that would dip

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<v Speaker 1>down into South Texas and go up through the Edwards

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<v Speaker 1>Plateau and all the way up toward North Tech.

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<v Speaker 2>Different food conditions, so body sizes are going to be

399
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<v Speaker 2>a little bit different, even coloration is going to be

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<v Speaker 2>a little bit different from some instrums. But then you

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00:20:56.319 --> 00:20:58.359
<v Speaker 2>also go back and you look at the fact that

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<v Speaker 2>back in the nineteen fifties sixties, there were a tremendous

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00:21:01.480 --> 00:21:04.480
<v Speaker 2>number of deer mood sure, oh my gosh, out of

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00:21:05.200 --> 00:21:08.960
<v Speaker 2>Arandas National Park area, the King Ranch Area and other

405
00:21:09.039 --> 00:21:12.160
<v Speaker 2>parks that were scattered then or reintroduced to different parts

406
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<v Speaker 2>of Texas. So you know, now we probably have a

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00:21:17.279 --> 00:21:19.720
<v Speaker 2>have a Texas deer that that's kind of a combination

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<v Speaker 2>of a bunch of subspecies.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Probably, So I don't know if any of those, like

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<v Speaker 1>you know, Ransas deer could survive because of that, because

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<v Speaker 1>they know what it's like in the marsh. But if

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<v Speaker 1>you took the vice versa and put one of those

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00:21:33.079 --> 00:21:36.440
<v Speaker 1>Kansas deer down in our marsh in twenty four hours,

415
00:21:36.480 --> 00:21:39.720
<v Speaker 1>they'd be suck dry of blood. They wouldn't They wouldn't

416
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<v Speaker 1>know how to hang down there.

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<v Speaker 3>You know.

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<v Speaker 1>It's like, uh, you know, you talk about adaptations. You know,

419
00:21:45.720 --> 00:21:47.799
<v Speaker 1>if you took them out of the Arandas refuse, that's

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00:21:47.799 --> 00:21:49.799
<v Speaker 1>a tough deer that can hang with stuff. Like going

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00:21:49.799 --> 00:21:51.519
<v Speaker 1>to the hill country is like a break for them.

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00:21:51.599 --> 00:21:55.119
<v Speaker 1>Thank you, we got out of the marsh, you know, thanks.

423
00:21:55.480 --> 00:21:58.039
<v Speaker 2>They were finally dry.

424
00:21:57.200 --> 00:22:00.680
<v Speaker 1>Exactly, But you mentioned all but you know, all that

425
00:22:00.799 --> 00:22:04.319
<v Speaker 1>different terrain we mentioned biodiversity with the habitat even with

426
00:22:04.359 --> 00:22:07.799
<v Speaker 1>them like the Edwards Plateau. You take around Lanto and

427
00:22:07.839 --> 00:22:10.720
<v Speaker 1>you got that kind of rolling you know, hills and

428
00:22:10.920 --> 00:22:13.720
<v Speaker 1>the beautiful like limestone streams. Then you go out to

429
00:22:13.799 --> 00:22:17.400
<v Speaker 1>the southwestern tier I love around Barksdale and camp Wood

430
00:22:17.759 --> 00:22:20.559
<v Speaker 1>and you got pretty high you know, hills and peaks,

431
00:22:20.559 --> 00:22:23.079
<v Speaker 1>and there's a lot of difference in that area of

432
00:22:23.119 --> 00:22:26.920
<v Speaker 1>different adaptations on these animals. But on a free range

433
00:22:27.599 --> 00:22:29.799
<v Speaker 1>white tail in the hill coruntry, Larry, what do you

434
00:22:29.799 --> 00:22:32.160
<v Speaker 1>think would be like the average hoof weight of a

435
00:22:32.200 --> 00:22:33.160
<v Speaker 1>buck and a dough.

436
00:22:34.480 --> 00:22:36.559
<v Speaker 2>Oh, my gosh, going back and again, it depends so

437
00:22:36.640 --> 00:22:39.480
<v Speaker 2>much for the so much management going on. I'm done

438
00:22:39.480 --> 00:22:43.519
<v Speaker 2>backer good management in terms of food. But me the

439
00:22:44.039 --> 00:22:49.119
<v Speaker 2>average more or less Texas Hill country deer mike on

440
00:22:49.160 --> 00:22:51.880
<v Speaker 2>the hoof on a on a buck the one thirty

441
00:22:51.880 --> 00:22:55.319
<v Speaker 2>five to you know, probably maybe a little bit more,

442
00:22:55.440 --> 00:22:59.359
<v Speaker 2>a little bit less in some areas. Generally a deer

443
00:22:59.440 --> 00:23:01.880
<v Speaker 2>like that's gonna field dress one hundred to one hundred and

444
00:23:02.039 --> 00:23:05.079
<v Speaker 2>five hundred and ten pounds even figured about thirty pounds,

445
00:23:05.279 --> 00:23:08.359
<v Speaker 2>so maybe a little bit bigger the doze. I would

446
00:23:08.400 --> 00:23:10.480
<v Speaker 2>say probably most of the doze in that area will

447
00:23:10.519 --> 00:23:14.480
<v Speaker 2>probably weigh somewhere between sixty and seventy pounds on the hoof.

448
00:23:15.640 --> 00:23:17.240
<v Speaker 1>And I tell you what, when you go down into

449
00:23:17.319 --> 00:23:20.359
<v Speaker 1>South Texas, it doesn't take long for some of those

450
00:23:20.400 --> 00:23:21.920
<v Speaker 1>deer to get quite a bit larger.

451
00:23:22.759 --> 00:23:26.079
<v Speaker 2>You're exactly right. You know, that was around around long time,

452
00:23:26.200 --> 00:23:30.640
<v Speaker 2>going backward when years ago we had the web county

453
00:23:30.720 --> 00:23:33.359
<v Speaker 2>check stations when we were trying to determine what was

454
00:23:33.359 --> 00:23:36.119
<v Speaker 2>going on, and there were times back there that a

455
00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:39.799
<v Speaker 2>lot of those bucks that we weighed, they probably would

456
00:23:39.799 --> 00:23:42.759
<v Speaker 2>have field dressed one twenty five to one thirty one

457
00:23:42.880 --> 00:23:45.279
<v Speaker 2>thirty five. So we're talking about you know, on the

458
00:23:45.319 --> 00:23:49.559
<v Speaker 2>hoof when maybe one fifty to one sixty one seventy

459
00:23:49.599 --> 00:23:52.920
<v Speaker 2>maybe at the most. And yet if you look at

460
00:23:52.960 --> 00:23:56.920
<v Speaker 2>what's happened today since we've reduced the population somewhat, you know,

461
00:23:57.079 --> 00:24:00.440
<v Speaker 2>shot more dose, given some of these bucks too opportunity

462
00:24:00.440 --> 00:24:02.519
<v Speaker 2>to grow a little bit, get some age on them,

463
00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:06.640
<v Speaker 2>it's not uncommon to for us to take an animal

464
00:24:07.200 --> 00:24:11.440
<v Speaker 2>that will field dress buck mature buck that's one seventy

465
00:24:11.440 --> 00:24:12.079
<v Speaker 2>five to one.

466
00:24:12.039 --> 00:24:12.759
<v Speaker 3>Eighty or better.

467
00:24:12.920 --> 00:24:16.960
<v Speaker 2>Wow. What's interesting about all this is there's a natural

468
00:24:17.039 --> 00:24:21.279
<v Speaker 2>rule called Bergman's rule that within any species starting south

469
00:24:21.319 --> 00:24:23.759
<v Speaker 2>and going north, the farther north you go, the larger

470
00:24:23.839 --> 00:24:26.519
<v Speaker 2>the bodies are. And that simply has to do with

471
00:24:26.720 --> 00:24:30.200
<v Speaker 2>being able to get rid of heat or to retain warmth,

472
00:24:30.279 --> 00:24:32.039
<v Speaker 2>you know, as you go farther north. And of course

473
00:24:32.039 --> 00:24:34.119
<v Speaker 2>that's one of the reasons you have the you get

474
00:24:34.160 --> 00:24:36.519
<v Speaker 2>it into Canada, and in some of those areas it's

475
00:24:36.559 --> 00:24:39.279
<v Speaker 2>you know, you shot a buckets weighs less than two

476
00:24:39.319 --> 00:24:41.240
<v Speaker 2>hundred pounds field dressed. You know, they go, oh, you

477
00:24:41.279 --> 00:24:42.519
<v Speaker 2>shot a baby kind of thing.

478
00:24:42.559 --> 00:24:44.519
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, with Alberta in place like that.

479
00:24:44.720 --> 00:24:49.119
<v Speaker 2>Yes, sure, exactly. But again here in Texas, with the

480
00:24:49.200 --> 00:24:52.480
<v Speaker 2>management that we've done, going back and looking at the

481
00:24:52.519 --> 00:24:56.480
<v Speaker 2>deer herd maybe from the nineteen seventies to as a

482
00:24:56.519 --> 00:24:58.960
<v Speaker 2>whole across the state of Texas, we've put a lot

483
00:24:59.000 --> 00:25:01.359
<v Speaker 2>of pounds on the end of visual animals over the

484
00:25:01.480 --> 00:25:05.200
<v Speaker 2>years simply because of the fact of the nutrition available

485
00:25:05.240 --> 00:25:09.200
<v Speaker 2>to them. And a lot of these places now back

486
00:25:09.279 --> 00:25:10.839
<v Speaker 2>well back then, a lot of the we had the

487
00:25:10.839 --> 00:25:13.279
<v Speaker 2>sheep and goat all over the central part of the

488
00:25:13.359 --> 00:25:15.319
<v Speaker 2>state of Texas, and they were competing with the white

489
00:25:15.319 --> 00:25:17.000
<v Speaker 2>tail there and when they did away with the sheep

490
00:25:17.000 --> 00:25:20.559
<v Speaker 2>and woolair, mohair and sentive. A few years ago, a

491
00:25:20.640 --> 00:25:22.799
<v Speaker 2>lot of those folks that were previously sheep and goat

492
00:25:22.880 --> 00:25:25.559
<v Speaker 2>ranchers went back to running cattle, and so all of

493
00:25:25.559 --> 00:25:27.839
<v Speaker 2>a sudden, there was a whole lot more food available.

494
00:25:27.920 --> 00:25:32.279
<v Speaker 2>And so we've really kind of increased the overall size

495
00:25:32.400 --> 00:25:35.240
<v Speaker 2>just in the last several years, just through good management

496
00:25:35.279 --> 00:25:38.799
<v Speaker 2>and making nutrition available on a daily basis throughout the year.

497
00:25:39.519 --> 00:25:43.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and that's a great point, because that lifts that

498
00:25:44.359 --> 00:25:48.880
<v Speaker 1>management that hunters and hunter conservationists and ranchers put on

499
00:25:48.960 --> 00:25:53.160
<v Speaker 1>the ground not only lifts the health of the white tail,

500
00:25:53.519 --> 00:25:55.359
<v Speaker 1>but every other critter out there as well.

501
00:25:56.440 --> 00:25:58.680
<v Speaker 2>You know, you're exactly right, And that's the point that's

502
00:25:58.720 --> 00:26:02.519
<v Speaker 2>so very often just simply overlooked that I've been involved

503
00:26:02.559 --> 00:26:06.440
<v Speaker 2>with management programs for everything from desert big horn sheep.

504
00:26:06.480 --> 00:26:08.240
<v Speaker 2>I know you're doing a bunch of things with desert

505
00:26:08.240 --> 00:26:13.480
<v Speaker 2>big horns now and with mew deer and whitetails, turkeys, quail,

506
00:26:13.599 --> 00:26:16.119
<v Speaker 2>you know, all the different game species. But one of

507
00:26:16.160 --> 00:26:18.000
<v Speaker 2>the things that I was able to do over the years,

508
00:26:18.039 --> 00:26:20.759
<v Speaker 2>particularly years ago, is when I got called in to

509
00:26:20.799 --> 00:26:24.079
<v Speaker 2>make recommendations, I would do a baseline on what vegetation

510
00:26:24.279 --> 00:26:27.680
<v Speaker 2>was on that property and potentially what animals I could

511
00:26:27.680 --> 00:26:30.119
<v Speaker 2>find there, and then we set up a good management

512
00:26:30.160 --> 00:26:33.400
<v Speaker 2>program that dealt with everything from the ground on up,

513
00:26:33.440 --> 00:26:37.519
<v Speaker 2>including the livestock operation, including the hunting operation, habitat improvements,

514
00:26:37.559 --> 00:26:40.200
<v Speaker 2>and all those kinds of things. And as we try

515
00:26:40.240 --> 00:26:43.599
<v Speaker 2>to improve the habitat to create a healthy herd of

516
00:26:43.680 --> 00:26:47.839
<v Speaker 2>white tailed deer or flock of turkeys or coves of

517
00:26:47.920 --> 00:26:50.160
<v Speaker 2>quail or whatever, one of the things that we found

518
00:26:50.400 --> 00:26:53.400
<v Speaker 2>is that we greatly increase the diversity of the plant

519
00:26:54.359 --> 00:26:57.559
<v Speaker 2>that we're there. And in process of that, oh, guess what,

520
00:26:57.680 --> 00:26:59.519
<v Speaker 2>all of a sudden, now we start having all kinds

521
00:26:59.519 --> 00:27:04.960
<v Speaker 2>of little bu ugs and grasshoppers and more ground more songbirds.

522
00:27:05.119 --> 00:27:07.720
<v Speaker 2>As a lot of times, when we set up these

523
00:27:07.759 --> 00:27:12.519
<v Speaker 2>management programs for quote unquote targeted game species, they'll benefit

524
00:27:12.640 --> 00:27:16.640
<v Speaker 2>a little habitat benefits tremendously and as a result, all

525
00:27:16.640 --> 00:27:19.000
<v Speaker 2>the other wildlife that's there. And that concludes if you

526
00:27:19.039 --> 00:27:21.400
<v Speaker 2>want to include all the little grounds in inks and

527
00:27:21.759 --> 00:27:24.880
<v Speaker 2>linards and snakes and frogs and toads, and you know,

528
00:27:24.920 --> 00:27:28.640
<v Speaker 2>you ground squirrelds, and you name the species or even

529
00:27:28.759 --> 00:27:32.279
<v Speaker 2>you know, some of the almost microscopic things that live

530
00:27:32.319 --> 00:27:35.759
<v Speaker 2>in the soil. Because we've increased it, everything does better.

531
00:27:35.799 --> 00:27:38.440
<v Speaker 2>And so it's one of the main reasons to me

532
00:27:38.640 --> 00:27:42.200
<v Speaker 2>that that hunting is so very important. I made a

533
00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:47.359
<v Speaker 2>statement not too long ago that conservation promotes life. Preservation

534
00:27:47.599 --> 00:27:50.720
<v Speaker 2>kills when you try to preserve something, you're trying to

535
00:27:50.720 --> 00:27:54.960
<v Speaker 2>preserve generally, well, let's preserve the real Grand Prairie. You know,

536
00:27:55.799 --> 00:27:58.240
<v Speaker 2>if we do that, we're going to have a limited

537
00:27:58.319 --> 00:28:03.839
<v Speaker 2>number of species plant and animal. Now, if we conserve,

538
00:28:03.960 --> 00:28:06.920
<v Speaker 2>which means the wise use of you know, we're going

539
00:28:06.920 --> 00:28:09.640
<v Speaker 2>to create some diversity. And when we do that again,

540
00:28:09.880 --> 00:28:12.960
<v Speaker 2>there'll be more different species of plants there and more wildlife.

541
00:28:12.960 --> 00:28:16.400
<v Speaker 2>And that includes everything from insects to merge to reptiles,

542
00:28:16.400 --> 00:28:19.160
<v Speaker 2>to amphibians to fish, you know, the terrestrial of the

543
00:28:19.160 --> 00:28:20.079
<v Speaker 2>wildlife kind of thing.

544
00:28:20.720 --> 00:28:20.920
<v Speaker 3>You know.

545
00:28:21.200 --> 00:28:23.680
<v Speaker 1>You know a lot of people like we have marsh

546
00:28:23.720 --> 00:28:26.200
<v Speaker 1>fires here are controlled burning in this part of the

547
00:28:26.200 --> 00:28:28.359
<v Speaker 1>world is a marsh fire. Everyone's used to it, but

548
00:28:28.440 --> 00:28:30.759
<v Speaker 1>most people don't know what that's about. You know, someone

549
00:28:30.799 --> 00:28:33.440
<v Speaker 1>who waterfowl hunts, you know, when they when they clear

550
00:28:33.519 --> 00:28:36.880
<v Speaker 1>that underbush and those exotic invasive exotics and things, and

551
00:28:36.920 --> 00:28:41.400
<v Speaker 1>you get this wonderful wintering opportunities for all the wildlife

552
00:28:41.400 --> 00:28:44.160
<v Speaker 1>out there when those waterfowl migrate down here are native

553
00:28:44.200 --> 00:28:47.799
<v Speaker 1>model ducks and things like that. And I was doing

554
00:28:47.799 --> 00:28:50.720
<v Speaker 1>some turkey hunting about five years ago and up in

555
00:28:51.400 --> 00:28:55.519
<v Speaker 1>East Texas and Sabbin National Forests, and they regularly do

556
00:28:55.640 --> 00:28:59.759
<v Speaker 1>control burns to manage for turkeys. The only area, Larry,

557
00:28:59.759 --> 00:29:03.319
<v Speaker 1>I've ever seen red cock heated woodpeckers which are federally

558
00:29:03.400 --> 00:29:07.759
<v Speaker 1>endangered species, or on stands of timber controlled burns for

559
00:29:07.839 --> 00:29:09.000
<v Speaker 1>East Eastern turkeys.

560
00:29:10.240 --> 00:29:12.920
<v Speaker 2>It's amazing how that works. I've seen the same thing.

561
00:29:12.960 --> 00:29:15.799
<v Speaker 2>I may have seen some of them, but it was

562
00:29:15.960 --> 00:29:18.839
<v Speaker 2>right on the edge of yep. Yeah, I mean they

563
00:29:18.880 --> 00:29:21.240
<v Speaker 2>may not been in the exact burn, but they were

564
00:29:21.279 --> 00:29:24.000
<v Speaker 2>not two hundred yards off the burned area kind of

565
00:29:24.039 --> 00:29:28.680
<v Speaker 2>thing exactly right. Fire. You know, Texas evolved with fire,

566
00:29:29.359 --> 00:29:31.440
<v Speaker 2>and when you get right back down to it, and

567
00:29:31.519 --> 00:29:34.519
<v Speaker 2>a lot of the areas that previously now are covered

568
00:29:34.559 --> 00:29:37.000
<v Speaker 2>with brush and all that kind of thing, and Texas

569
00:29:37.160 --> 00:29:42.559
<v Speaker 2>we're basically grasslands. Well, the indigenous people they if lightning

570
00:29:42.640 --> 00:29:45.680
<v Speaker 2>didn't strike and burn down the old grass that was there,

571
00:29:45.839 --> 00:29:49.359
<v Speaker 2>they found a way to create their own fires, Well,

572
00:29:49.359 --> 00:29:53.720
<v Speaker 2>that only put nutrients back into the soul kind of thing.

573
00:29:54.200 --> 00:29:56.839
<v Speaker 1>When we come back, we'll wrap up our conversation with

574
00:29:56.960 --> 00:30:03.799
<v Speaker 1>mister whitetail Larry Wyzoom. Welcome back to More Outdoors on

575
00:30:03.839 --> 00:30:06.279
<v Speaker 1>News Talk five sixty k l v I catched the

576
00:30:06.359 --> 00:30:10.160
<v Speaker 1>podcast of this program at KLVI dot com or on

577
00:30:10.200 --> 00:30:13.920
<v Speaker 1>the iHeartRadio app continding our conversation with Larry Wayzoom.

578
00:30:14.200 --> 00:30:17.960
<v Speaker 2>But it also then created new fresh growth, and those

579
00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:21.799
<v Speaker 2>buffalo herds and you know and other animal pronghorn, antelope,

580
00:30:21.839 --> 00:30:25.240
<v Speaker 2>whatever with they would come to those areas, and so

581
00:30:25.599 --> 00:30:27.920
<v Speaker 2>they kind of used that fire to kind of, you

582
00:30:27.920 --> 00:30:29.640
<v Speaker 2>look at it in a different kind of way. They

583
00:30:29.680 --> 00:30:31.920
<v Speaker 2>used it to create food plots for the animals that

584
00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:33.240
<v Speaker 2>they needed to survive.

585
00:30:37.960 --> 00:30:40.440
<v Speaker 3>I just lost you, Yeah, I got you there. Okay.

586
00:30:40.720 --> 00:30:42.960
<v Speaker 1>So that makes you know, that makes perfect sense, and

587
00:30:43.000 --> 00:30:45.079
<v Speaker 1>it's great. You know that fire is a natural part

588
00:30:45.079 --> 00:30:47.319
<v Speaker 1>of the ecosystem. But that just goes back to, like,

589
00:30:48.160 --> 00:30:53.079
<v Speaker 1>you know, I became someone interested in wildlife conservation because

590
00:30:53.519 --> 00:30:58.000
<v Speaker 1>I was obsessed with wildlife from birth, and I grew

591
00:30:58.119 --> 00:31:00.480
<v Speaker 1>up hunting and fishing, and I have a little stream

592
00:31:01.039 --> 00:31:03.759
<v Speaker 1>by my household, would call it the gully, and there

593
00:31:03.880 --> 00:31:07.480
<v Speaker 1>was a factory that would dump dies into the bayou,

594
00:31:07.759 --> 00:31:10.799
<v Speaker 1>and I was told I remember going fishing there one time,

595
00:31:10.920 --> 00:31:13.480
<v Speaker 1>was a kid, and the water was like you've heard

596
00:31:13.519 --> 00:31:15.920
<v Speaker 1>of black water. No, I mean it was like the

597
00:31:15.920 --> 00:31:16.440
<v Speaker 1>pits of.

598
00:31:16.400 --> 00:31:19.079
<v Speaker 3>Hell, black like, and it was.

599
00:31:19.039 --> 00:31:22.119
<v Speaker 1>Purple one time, and I knew that I couldn't need

600
00:31:22.160 --> 00:31:23.920
<v Speaker 1>a fish that don't ever you can fish down there,

601
00:31:23.960 --> 00:31:26.079
<v Speaker 1>but don't ever bring a fish on to clean from there.

602
00:31:27.480 --> 00:31:30.559
<v Speaker 1>And then I learned, you know, in deer hunting and

603
00:31:30.599 --> 00:31:33.519
<v Speaker 1>things like that. I remember going out to go deer

604
00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:36.400
<v Speaker 1>hunting and my dad teaching me the principles of like, Okay,

605
00:31:36.400 --> 00:31:38.240
<v Speaker 1>at the time, there weren't a lot of deer any sections,

606
00:31:38.279 --> 00:31:41.200
<v Speaker 1>so you weren't harvesting as many doughs, you know. And

607
00:31:41.200 --> 00:31:43.119
<v Speaker 1>then we went to the hill country, it was like, no,

608
00:31:43.240 --> 00:31:45.680
<v Speaker 1>we got dough tags here. Back in they do tagged

609
00:31:45.880 --> 00:31:49.079
<v Speaker 1>the landowner would give you because I need to control it.

610
00:31:49.160 --> 00:31:53.799
<v Speaker 1>So I understood through the hunting and fishing thing that wow,

611
00:31:54.039 --> 00:31:57.880
<v Speaker 1>if we do the right thing and use the space wisely,

612
00:31:58.400 --> 00:31:59.640
<v Speaker 1>wildlife benefits.

613
00:31:59.720 --> 00:32:02.359
<v Speaker 3>So it was because of hunting and fishing that I

614
00:32:02.359 --> 00:32:03.559
<v Speaker 3>wanted to get into conservation.

615
00:32:05.480 --> 00:32:09.200
<v Speaker 2>To me, the true conservationists out there are the hunters

616
00:32:09.200 --> 00:32:11.720
<v Speaker 2>and the fishermen. You know, not only in terms of

617
00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:16.400
<v Speaker 2>what they actually do in terms of the physical doing,

618
00:32:16.480 --> 00:32:19.119
<v Speaker 2>but also, as you well know, in terms of the

619
00:32:19.160 --> 00:32:24.599
<v Speaker 2>financing of conservations. Hunters and fishermen pay for conservation primarily

620
00:32:24.640 --> 00:32:28.200
<v Speaker 2>through well, on the hunting side, through the Pittman Robertson Act,

621
00:32:28.200 --> 00:32:31.240
<v Speaker 2>which I think was established in nineteen thirty seven, and

622
00:32:31.279 --> 00:32:35.240
<v Speaker 2>then the Dingle Johnson covers the fish You're right, that

623
00:32:35.319 --> 00:32:38.839
<v Speaker 2>covers the fishing side of thing. I think was just

624
00:32:38.880 --> 00:32:42.599
<v Speaker 2>a few years after that. So that's how conservation is

625
00:32:42.640 --> 00:32:46.559
<v Speaker 2>really paid for. It is through the sale of sporting

626
00:32:46.599 --> 00:32:50.000
<v Speaker 2>equipment and then of course through the licening of hunters

627
00:32:50.039 --> 00:32:50.599
<v Speaker 2>and fishermen.

628
00:32:51.119 --> 00:32:54.359
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, you have a long standing association with a great

629
00:32:54.440 --> 00:32:57.240
<v Speaker 1>conservation center group hunter conservation group.

630
00:32:57.079 --> 00:32:58.400
<v Speaker 3>The Dallas Safari Club.

631
00:32:59.440 --> 00:33:01.119
<v Speaker 1>Can you tell them a little bit about some of

632
00:33:01.119 --> 00:33:03.119
<v Speaker 1>the things that the Dallas Safari Club, because I know

633
00:33:03.119 --> 00:33:06.599
<v Speaker 1>they've done things with everything from supporting desert big Horn

634
00:33:06.720 --> 00:33:09.160
<v Speaker 1>conservation in West Texas to anti.

635
00:33:08.839 --> 00:33:10.319
<v Speaker 3>Poaching patrols in Africa.

636
00:33:10.440 --> 00:33:11.920
<v Speaker 1>Can you give me a little bit about maybe some

637
00:33:11.960 --> 00:33:14.440
<v Speaker 1>of the things dallasa Fari Club has done to help conservation.

638
00:33:15.160 --> 00:33:18.279
<v Speaker 2>DSc was established back in about nineteen eighty two, and

639
00:33:18.359 --> 00:33:20.920
<v Speaker 2>I was very fortunate to have been involved in some

640
00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:24.319
<v Speaker 2>form of fascists in nineteen eighty seven. It is a

641
00:33:24.519 --> 00:33:31.400
<v Speaker 2>conservation organizations whose three legs are conservation, education and hunter advocacy,

642
00:33:32.160 --> 00:33:34.920
<v Speaker 2>and they've been involved in so many different programs, and

643
00:33:34.920 --> 00:33:38.240
<v Speaker 2>of course in recent times we've had the DSc Foundation,

644
00:33:38.960 --> 00:33:42.359
<v Speaker 2>which is kind of the granting arm of DSc. Prior

645
00:33:42.400 --> 00:33:45.920
<v Speaker 2>to that, DSc would provide grants, but once we established

646
00:33:45.920 --> 00:33:51.599
<v Speaker 2>the DSc Foundation, it became more important, if you will,

647
00:33:51.640 --> 00:33:54.680
<v Speaker 2>in some ways of being able to provide moneies to

648
00:33:55.000 --> 00:33:58.079
<v Speaker 2>different projects, not only here in North America, but as

649
00:33:58.839 --> 00:34:02.359
<v Speaker 2>across the entire world world. If you will, dollars that

650
00:34:02.440 --> 00:34:06.160
<v Speaker 2>are issued by d SC and by DSc Foundation, those

651
00:34:06.200 --> 00:34:09.800
<v Speaker 2>projects are extremely vetted to determine to make certain that

652
00:34:09.840 --> 00:34:13.480
<v Speaker 2>those dollars actually go to what they're supposed to do,

653
00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:16.719
<v Speaker 2>rather than in somebody's pockets, as is so often the

654
00:34:16.800 --> 00:34:20.000
<v Speaker 2>case with some of the other if you will, anti

655
00:34:20.119 --> 00:34:23.079
<v Speaker 2>hunting groups and the things that the d s C

656
00:34:23.239 --> 00:34:26.039
<v Speaker 2>has done. In d s C Foundation, we've funded projects

657
00:34:26.480 --> 00:34:28.480
<v Speaker 2>as you mentioned with Desert Big Horn Sheep and help

658
00:34:28.559 --> 00:34:32.239
<v Speaker 2>them provide water in certain areas we've dealt with the

659
00:34:32.280 --> 00:34:36.679
<v Speaker 2>desert with the Mutier Foundation and helping them creating quarters,

660
00:34:36.760 --> 00:34:42.320
<v Speaker 2>even in terms of purchasing land in We've funded numerous

661
00:34:42.360 --> 00:34:45.639
<v Speaker 2>projects as well in Africa dealing with leopards, trying to

662
00:34:45.679 --> 00:34:49.440
<v Speaker 2>determine what the real status of the leopards are. Same

663
00:34:49.519 --> 00:34:56.400
<v Speaker 2>thing with oh my gosh, with elephants, with different species, rhinos,

664
00:34:56.440 --> 00:34:59.760
<v Speaker 2>those kinds of things. We've We've had projects going on

665
00:34:59.800 --> 00:35:03.039
<v Speaker 2>and Europe that dealt with UH UH things such as

666
00:35:03.119 --> 00:35:07.320
<v Speaker 2>road deer, vallader and red stags. There's projects in Asia

667
00:35:07.400 --> 00:35:10.480
<v Speaker 2>that have been supported in terms of UH some of

668
00:35:10.519 --> 00:35:13.519
<v Speaker 2>the work there with the Dark Galley Sheep and UH,

669
00:35:14.679 --> 00:35:18.159
<v Speaker 2>the UH, the IBEX and things like that. But here

670
00:35:18.159 --> 00:35:21.320
<v Speaker 2>in North America too we have done so very much

671
00:35:21.360 --> 00:35:24.159
<v Speaker 2>with like the Rocky Elk Rocky Rocky Mount Elk Foundation

672
00:35:24.559 --> 00:35:27.800
<v Speaker 2>UH with some of the guides and outputters associations that

673
00:35:27.840 --> 00:35:32.039
<v Speaker 2>are involved in in UH OH in different research projects

674
00:35:32.039 --> 00:35:35.639
<v Speaker 2>with species within their own province if you will earn

675
00:35:35.679 --> 00:35:40.519
<v Speaker 2>their own state. And we've provided old dollars for UH

676
00:35:41.239 --> 00:35:45.000
<v Speaker 2>all supporting the education of different groups such as that

677
00:35:45.079 --> 00:35:48.559
<v Speaker 2>we do here in Texas. We provided money to the

678
00:35:48.599 --> 00:35:52.599
<v Speaker 2>Texas Brigades, which is done well here in Texas, So

679
00:35:52.920 --> 00:35:56.760
<v Speaker 2>it's a continually ongoing thing. You know. To me, there's

680
00:35:56.800 --> 00:36:00.320
<v Speaker 2>all kinds of great conservation organizations, but I've had an

681
00:36:00.320 --> 00:36:02.840
<v Speaker 2>opportunity to work with all of them, and to me,

682
00:36:02.920 --> 00:36:06.440
<v Speaker 2>there's none that equals DSc or the DSc Foundation. They

683
00:36:06.480 --> 00:36:09.320
<v Speaker 2>do so many different things for which they never get

684
00:36:09.360 --> 00:36:12.840
<v Speaker 2>credited for. Other organizations will go we did so, so,

685
00:36:13.079 --> 00:36:15.800
<v Speaker 2>we did so and so, and yeah, maybe you showed

686
00:36:15.880 --> 00:36:17.480
<v Speaker 2>up for a hearing, but you weren't the one who

687
00:36:17.559 --> 00:36:20.719
<v Speaker 2>actually got the work done kind of thing. But with DSc,

688
00:36:21.079 --> 00:36:24.440
<v Speaker 2>it's not about the recognition. It's about getting the work

689
00:36:24.559 --> 00:36:28.880
<v Speaker 2>done and making sure that you know there's going to

690
00:36:28.880 --> 00:36:32.639
<v Speaker 2>be wildlife and wilelife opportunities in the future, not just

691
00:36:32.760 --> 00:36:36.239
<v Speaker 2>right now. And I'll also say that it's kyleed Dallas

692
00:36:36.280 --> 00:36:40.000
<v Speaker 2>Safari Club. Well, Safari is nothing more than a Swahili

693
00:36:40.119 --> 00:36:44.159
<v Speaker 2>term for an adventure or walk about. And you do

694
00:36:44.280 --> 00:36:47.679
<v Speaker 2>not have to be a Safari hunter. If you will

695
00:36:48.960 --> 00:36:50.880
<v Speaker 2>somebody that goes to Africa to be a member. A

696
00:36:50.920 --> 00:36:53.519
<v Speaker 2>matter of fact of our membership, I say there's a

697
00:36:53.679 --> 00:36:57.000
<v Speaker 2>relatively small portion of people who actually go on Safari

698
00:36:57.159 --> 00:37:01.639
<v Speaker 2>if you will, they have all kinds going fari quite often.

699
00:37:01.719 --> 00:37:04.280
<v Speaker 2>My next safari is for black bear up in Alberta,

700
00:37:04.559 --> 00:37:08.760
<v Speaker 2>after which my safari will be for stright bashed Texaman

701
00:37:08.920 --> 00:37:13.440
<v Speaker 2>and shortly after that a safari in Northeast Texas for bluegills.

702
00:37:13.639 --> 00:37:15.719
<v Speaker 3>I love it bluegill safari. I'm down.

703
00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:18.719
<v Speaker 1>I'm leaving after I interview you for a bluegill safari

704
00:37:18.760 --> 00:37:20.159
<v Speaker 1>in Orange County with my fly.

705
00:37:20.159 --> 00:37:22.639
<v Speaker 2>Rod so and that's right, and I'll bring that up.

706
00:37:24.719 --> 00:37:28.559
<v Speaker 2>I love it being being Dallasafari Club members Rick Lambert,

707
00:37:28.559 --> 00:37:32.000
<v Speaker 2>who happens to be the dad of Miranda Lambert and

708
00:37:32.079 --> 00:37:36.840
<v Speaker 2>the entertainer, and Jim Zumbo who people know for many

709
00:37:36.880 --> 00:37:40.400
<v Speaker 2>years from years about or Lafe. Three of us. Every

710
00:37:40.400 --> 00:37:42.920
<v Speaker 2>opportuney we get together, we try to go on on

711
00:37:43.280 --> 00:37:46.000
<v Speaker 2>anything I'm to do with hunting at fishing, and knowing

712
00:37:46.000 --> 00:37:49.840
<v Speaker 2>that mister zumbo favorite species in all the world is

713
00:37:49.920 --> 00:37:54.280
<v Speaker 2>blue gill. I found a very good bluegill pond and uh,

714
00:37:57.079 --> 00:37:59.599
<v Speaker 2>he's rather good at fishing, he's really good at at

715
00:38:00.400 --> 00:38:02.599
<v Speaker 2>but he's also one of these guys who realizes that

716
00:38:02.599 --> 00:38:05.599
<v Speaker 2>we have got to maintain a certain population within a pond,

717
00:38:05.639 --> 00:38:07.440
<v Speaker 2>and so we got to take a lot of fish out,

718
00:38:07.559 --> 00:38:10.679
<v Speaker 2>so he likes to fish those places where we have

719
00:38:10.760 --> 00:38:14.159
<v Speaker 2>to remove with much of fish because his term for

720
00:38:14.400 --> 00:38:17.840
<v Speaker 2>catching release is catching release and hot butter kind of things.

721
00:38:18.360 --> 00:38:21.239
<v Speaker 1>I dig it sometimes looks sometimes like I tell people

722
00:38:21.239 --> 00:38:22.159
<v Speaker 1>when I go crappie fish.

723
00:38:22.199 --> 00:38:23.599
<v Speaker 3>Crappy is my favorite thing to catch.

724
00:38:24.079 --> 00:38:28.880
<v Speaker 1>And I tell people, look conservation, all the wise use

725
00:38:29.039 --> 00:38:31.960
<v Speaker 1>of a resource. And I'm going to use every legal

726
00:38:32.000 --> 00:38:34.559
<v Speaker 1>size crappie that I catch today to feed my family.

727
00:38:34.599 --> 00:38:35.679
<v Speaker 3>I'm just letting you know that part.

728
00:38:35.800 --> 00:38:40.239
<v Speaker 2>So absolutely getting back to DSc. I'm not sure when

729
00:38:40.960 --> 00:38:44.280
<v Speaker 2>when this will ara, but June the twenty second, we

730
00:38:44.360 --> 00:38:46.760
<v Speaker 2>have our I think this will be the fourth annual

731
00:38:47.280 --> 00:38:51.199
<v Speaker 2>DSc Foundation Gala being held at the Sheridan Hotel there

732
00:38:51.239 --> 00:38:55.480
<v Speaker 2>in Dallas. We've got it's basically a fundraiser and an

733
00:38:55.480 --> 00:38:58.679
<v Speaker 2>opportunity to bring people together. We've got some of the

734
00:38:58.719 --> 00:39:01.440
<v Speaker 2>finest hunts from all over the world, finance fishing trips

735
00:39:01.639 --> 00:39:04.559
<v Speaker 2>and those can you don't have to be present a

736
00:39:04.639 --> 00:39:07.280
<v Speaker 2>bed on them. With with the new on hunting online

737
00:39:07.320 --> 00:39:11.280
<v Speaker 2>auction things, you know you can be anywhere in the world.

738
00:39:11.360 --> 00:39:13.239
<v Speaker 2>If you can't attend, we'd love for you to have

739
00:39:13.280 --> 00:39:15.719
<v Speaker 2>a look at what we have available and to be

740
00:39:15.760 --> 00:39:17.440
<v Speaker 2>a bitter there. And you know, if you want to

741
00:39:17.519 --> 00:39:20.400
<v Speaker 2>learn more about what's going on there with the foundation,

742
00:39:20.920 --> 00:39:24.559
<v Speaker 2>they can go to www dot d s C F

743
00:39:24.760 --> 00:39:27.800
<v Speaker 2>dot O r G and learn more about the things

744
00:39:27.840 --> 00:39:30.440
<v Speaker 2>that d s C does both here in North America

745
00:39:30.440 --> 00:39:34.119
<v Speaker 2>and abroad and how d s C truly is important

746
00:39:34.159 --> 00:39:38.840
<v Speaker 2>for the conservation of all widlife species here in North

747
00:39:38.840 --> 00:39:41.599
<v Speaker 2>America across the world. They can go to their website

748
00:39:41.599 --> 00:39:46.159
<v Speaker 2>as well, which is www dot b I G G

749
00:39:46.360 --> 00:39:49.280
<v Speaker 2>A m E dot O r G SO Big Game

750
00:39:49.320 --> 00:39:49.800
<v Speaker 2>dot org.

751
00:39:50.159 --> 00:39:53.360
<v Speaker 1>Thanks for listening to the program. Great interview with Larry Wazoom.

752
00:39:53.400 --> 00:39:56.119
<v Speaker 1>Follow me at Higher Calling dot net or my new

753
00:39:56.119 --> 00:39:59.480
<v Speaker 1>blog at Gulf Great Whites dot com at d chestermorn Instagram,

754
00:39:59.519 --> 00:40:01.880
<v Speaker 1>God bless and have a great outdoors weekend.