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Nob'd just necessary for We're going 21 00:00:57.880 --> 00:00:59.600 Hit at my Lawn eighteen plus terms and condition to plice. 22 00:00:59.600 --> 00:01:10.400 What's every You are now listening to True Murder, the 23 00:01:10.439 --> 00:01:13.959 most shocking killers in true crime history and the authors 24 00:01:13.959 --> 00:01:19.359 that have written about them. Gaesy Bundy Dahmer The Nightstalker 25 00:01:19.840 --> 00:01:24.640 BTK every week another fascinating author talking about the most 26 00:01:24.640 --> 00:01:28.879 shocking and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder 27 00:01:29.200 --> 00:01:42.680 with your host journalist and author Dan Zupanski, Good Evening. 28 00:01:44.040 --> 00:01:48.239 As a soft spoken, highly intelligent son of missionaries in Morganton, 29 00:01:48.319 --> 00:01:52.200 North Carolina, Luke Chang gave no indication of the killer 30 00:01:52.239 --> 00:01:55.560 he would become, but after hacking into a teacher's computer 31 00:01:55.680 --> 00:01:58.040 at his school, a stint in the Marines was his 32 00:01:58.120 --> 00:02:01.680 only option. As a young recruit, Luke was taunted for 33 00:02:01.799 --> 00:02:04.879 being a virgin who didn't cuss, drink, or smoke. Pot 34 00:02:05.120 --> 00:02:08.800 That all change when Luke met Casey Byrams, a fun 35 00:02:08.840 --> 00:02:13.000 loving musician and fellow marine from Coleman, Alabama. The friendship 36 00:02:13.080 --> 00:02:15.520 set off a series of events that would eventually lead 37 00:02:15.599 --> 00:02:19.280 Luke to Pendleton, Oregon, where he brutally murdered nineteen year 38 00:02:19.319 --> 00:02:24.039 old Amy jan Brand Higgen in August twenty twelve. When 39 00:02:24.120 --> 00:02:26.879 Luke attempted to kill another woman almost a year later, 40 00:02:27.400 --> 00:02:30.439 Pendleton police knew they had a serial killer wannabe on 41 00:02:30.479 --> 00:02:34.800 their hands. Some forty years prior to Amy Jane's murder, 42 00:02:34.879 --> 00:02:39.439 Luke's maternal grandfather, Jean Dale Lincoln murdered a young Michigan 43 00:02:39.479 --> 00:02:42.000 woman and attempted to abduct the twelve year old girl. 44 00:02:42.479 --> 00:02:46.319 The similarities between the violent actions of grandfather and grandson 45 00:02:46.960 --> 00:02:50.719 compels the question is there such a thing as a 46 00:02:50.840 --> 00:02:53.639 murder Jan. The book that we're featuring this evening is 47 00:02:53.759 --> 00:02:57.360 The Murder Jan, A true story with my special guest, 48 00:02:57.439 --> 00:03:01.719 journalist and author Karen Spears Zachari. Welcome to the program, 49 00:03:01.759 --> 00:03:05.400 and thank you very much for this interview. Karen Zacharias, 50 00:03:05.599 --> 00:03:06.240 Thank you, Dan. 51 00:03:06.439 --> 00:03:07.960 It's good to be with you again. 52 00:03:08.479 --> 00:03:12.000 Thank you so much for joining us for this incredible tale. 53 00:03:12.599 --> 00:03:17.240 First off, tell us how you came to be involved 54 00:03:17.240 --> 00:03:21.000 in this story and tell us a little bit about 55 00:03:21.000 --> 00:03:23.879 your meeting with police Chief Stuart Roberts. 56 00:03:24.120 --> 00:03:28.719 Well. I was at one point I am reporter on 57 00:03:28.759 --> 00:03:33.039 the crime beat in Pendleton, Oregon, where the murder took place, 58 00:03:33.439 --> 00:03:37.240 and over the years of my crime reporting had developed 59 00:03:37.280 --> 00:03:42.879 relationships with several of the law enforcement people in the community. 60 00:03:43.280 --> 00:03:47.120 Stewart Roberts was chief of the Pendulton Police and very 61 00:03:47.120 --> 00:03:50.719 well respected. I had worked with Chief Roberts on my 62 00:03:50.840 --> 00:03:55.039 previous crime book of Silence and Mocking Bird, about the 63 00:03:55.159 --> 00:03:59.360 death of three year old Curly Sheehan. When Amy Jane 64 00:03:59.360 --> 00:04:04.199 brand Again was murdered in August twenty twelve. I actually 65 00:04:04.360 --> 00:04:08.879 knew Amy Jane, you her family very well. My daughter 66 00:04:09.039 --> 00:04:12.439 had baby, said Amy Jane when she was younger, and 67 00:04:12.719 --> 00:04:17.120 so much like the Carly Shehan, I had this connection 68 00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:21.759 to the victim. I called up Chief Roberts and as 69 00:04:22.079 --> 00:04:26.160 could be for coffee shortly after Amy Jane's murder. So 70 00:04:26.279 --> 00:04:31.120 we did, and at that time no arrest had been made, 71 00:04:31.360 --> 00:04:35.120 and very little details about the murder had been released. 72 00:04:35.519 --> 00:04:39.480 And when I questioned Stewart as to whether there was 73 00:04:39.800 --> 00:04:42.920 a story in all of those he told me then 74 00:04:43.600 --> 00:04:48.279 in twenty twelve that yes, there was a story, and 75 00:04:48.439 --> 00:04:51.600 he feared that what they had on their hands was 76 00:04:51.639 --> 00:04:56.399 a serial killer because of the low cow of Pendleton. 77 00:04:56.759 --> 00:05:01.800 It's located right along the Interstate four that runs between 78 00:05:01.839 --> 00:05:06.360 Boys Idaho and Portland, Oregon, and it would be very 79 00:05:06.399 --> 00:05:12.240 easy for someone to jump off that interstate do a crime. 80 00:05:12.560 --> 00:05:15.879 In Amy's case, so it's the middle of the afternoon 81 00:05:16.000 --> 00:05:19.800 on our bright sunny August day, and the killer had 82 00:05:19.839 --> 00:05:22.160 walked away completely unseen. 83 00:05:22.639 --> 00:05:25.920 Now part of the research for this book is that 84 00:05:26.240 --> 00:05:29.079 we call it the murder gene and you did some 85 00:05:29.319 --> 00:05:34.839 extensive research from all the latest experts doing this research, 86 00:05:34.879 --> 00:05:39.079 conducting this research tell us basically the research that you 87 00:05:39.480 --> 00:05:41.279 delve into regarding DNA. 88 00:05:41.439 --> 00:05:46.480 Well, what happened when I began researching the story of 89 00:05:46.720 --> 00:05:52.120 Luke Chain the killer. I found out that his grandfather 90 00:05:52.720 --> 00:05:56.040 was in prison and had been imprisoned at one point, 91 00:05:56.079 --> 00:06:00.000 and I didn't know why that was why he would 92 00:06:00.040 --> 00:06:04.160 event so I had gone back to Chief Roberts and said, 93 00:06:04.519 --> 00:06:08.199 what was Luke's grandfather in prison? Pork And Chief Roberts 94 00:06:08.199 --> 00:06:10.480 didn't even know at that point that he had been 95 00:06:10.879 --> 00:06:13.519 I had just come across, said in a brief note 96 00:06:13.680 --> 00:06:17.399 in pages and pages of documents, and then he came 97 00:06:17.439 --> 00:06:20.439 back and told me that he had been arrested and 98 00:06:20.639 --> 00:06:24.759 put in prison for murders. So I began collecting the 99 00:06:24.800 --> 00:06:30.439 information on Luke's grandfather, and that immediate led me to 100 00:06:30.519 --> 00:06:34.439 think what an oddity that was to have a grandfather 101 00:06:34.519 --> 00:06:40.480 and a grandson both committing pretty violent murders of women 102 00:06:41.000 --> 00:06:45.839 neither one of them knew or having connection to. I 103 00:06:46.000 --> 00:06:49.600 was immediately traut to the fact that there might be 104 00:06:49.879 --> 00:06:55.560 a genetic connection to that kind of violence. And so 105 00:06:56.199 --> 00:07:01.399 I'm not a scientist, not an expert in DNA. I 106 00:07:01.439 --> 00:07:05.319 began researching, and of course it took me ten years 107 00:07:05.360 --> 00:07:10.639 of research. DNA is, as you will know, changing hour 108 00:07:10.839 --> 00:07:15.519 by hour the discoveries that we are making in DNA. 109 00:07:15.920 --> 00:07:19.680 And the first person I got a hold of was 110 00:07:20.360 --> 00:07:26.160 specialist at Florida State University, doctor Kevin Bick, and he 111 00:07:26.759 --> 00:07:32.199 explained to me that it is an uncomfortable subject for 112 00:07:32.360 --> 00:07:36.720 us to talk about that there might be a connection 113 00:07:37.600 --> 00:07:42.000 of violence in families, that we prefer to think of 114 00:07:42.079 --> 00:07:46.879 that as all environmental. But the way the doctor explained 115 00:07:46.879 --> 00:07:50.519 it to me was that it's very much like if 116 00:07:50.560 --> 00:07:55.439 you say, have a grandfather who has diabetes, you won't 117 00:07:55.480 --> 00:08:02.120 necessarily get diabetes, but you will have a perpensity toward diabetes, right, 118 00:08:02.160 --> 00:08:06.920 And it's the same with violence. It doesn't mean if 119 00:08:06.959 --> 00:08:10.639 your grandfather is a serial killer that you're going to 120 00:08:10.720 --> 00:08:15.600 be a serial killer, but you have a higher propensity 121 00:08:16.079 --> 00:08:22.199 for aggression and violence as significantly higher according to doctor 122 00:08:22.240 --> 00:08:25.120 Bacon and the others that I interviewed. 123 00:08:25.279 --> 00:08:31.959 And many people call this m ao a gene, the 124 00:08:32.000 --> 00:08:35.759 warrior gene. But you say, other people regard this or 125 00:08:35.799 --> 00:08:38.519 refer to this as the psychogene. 126 00:08:38.639 --> 00:08:43.440 Well, it's called some people call it the psychogene. It 127 00:08:43.480 --> 00:08:49.960 is really an enzyme within the gene. It's the moxomain 128 00:08:50.720 --> 00:08:56.879 oxidize a and for it to be a warrior gene, 129 00:08:57.120 --> 00:09:01.759 that's most commonly referred to as a t R variant, 130 00:09:01.960 --> 00:09:06.879 meaning it repeats twice or more. It is carried. We 131 00:09:06.919 --> 00:09:11.759 all have it, but in women it doesn't show up 132 00:09:12.039 --> 00:09:17.039 as commonly because women have two of the It comes 133 00:09:17.039 --> 00:09:20.639 on the X chromosome. Women have two, so if I 134 00:09:20.799 --> 00:09:24.240 were to have it one of the X chromosomes, make 135 00:09:24.320 --> 00:09:27.399 cancel it out in me. But it is carried through 136 00:09:27.399 --> 00:09:30.960 the mother's line and past. Like I said, all of 137 00:09:31.039 --> 00:09:37.480 us have the moa m aoa gene, but we don't 138 00:09:37.519 --> 00:09:42.559 all have the to are variant, and we see it 139 00:09:42.600 --> 00:09:47.000 most commonly and meant it's highly valued and referred to 140 00:09:47.080 --> 00:09:50.679 as a warrior gene because it makes men more aggressive, 141 00:09:51.279 --> 00:09:55.200 more willing on the battlefield. That kind of thing is 142 00:09:55.480 --> 00:09:59.320 the light it has been up until this point put 143 00:09:59.399 --> 00:10:03.720 into a very positive light as being that thing you 144 00:10:03.799 --> 00:10:08.000 want your warriors to have. Well, it would be really 145 00:10:08.159 --> 00:10:12.159 interesting to know how many of these white supremacists we're 146 00:10:12.200 --> 00:10:15.279 dealing with and these mass shootings are dealing with that 147 00:10:15.519 --> 00:10:17.440 to our variant right now. 148 00:10:17.440 --> 00:10:19.759 You talk about this to our variant, but it's also 149 00:10:19.919 --> 00:10:21.120 called a mutation. 150 00:10:21.799 --> 00:10:26.679 Yes, it is a mutation. And these just like with 151 00:10:26.879 --> 00:10:33.519 arthritis or diabetes or apress cancer, these are there is 152 00:10:33.559 --> 00:10:39.759 an inheritability to that variant. But the having that variant 153 00:10:39.919 --> 00:10:44.679 alone isn't enough. It is a marker on the gene 154 00:10:44.960 --> 00:10:50.440 and how that marker responds to the environmental factors, just 155 00:10:50.840 --> 00:10:59.159 as with other inheritable factors. Just as with diabetes, lifestyle 156 00:10:59.240 --> 00:11:02.039 would be a fact doctor that would come into play 157 00:11:02.120 --> 00:11:05.559 as to whether the diabetes became full blown or not. 158 00:11:05.919 --> 00:11:11.360 The same thing with this mutant ensign or marker on 159 00:11:11.679 --> 00:11:17.039 the gene is influenced by those environmental factors. 160 00:11:17.559 --> 00:11:21.399 You pose the question, though, is it possible that grandfather 161 00:11:21.480 --> 00:11:25.279 and grandson shared a code for murder. Let's talk about 162 00:11:25.559 --> 00:11:28.799 gene Dale Lincoln and what you did find out about 163 00:11:28.799 --> 00:11:32.559 his crimes. And you take us to Nancy Ellen Laws 164 00:11:32.720 --> 00:11:36.600 and she is camping at Michigan's King Lake. Tell us 165 00:11:36.639 --> 00:11:39.919 what happens when she meets Jean and how she meets 166 00:11:40.000 --> 00:11:41.200 gene Dale Lincoln. 167 00:11:41.360 --> 00:11:47.279 So in the week prior to Jeen meeting with Nancy, 168 00:11:47.559 --> 00:11:52.759 he was a father of four kids and married the time, 169 00:11:53.080 --> 00:11:57.120 and had even been at one point the tax assessor 170 00:11:57.240 --> 00:12:00.360 in his county. I mean he was employed did a 171 00:12:00.360 --> 00:12:06.360 machine company at the point of Nancy's death, but was 172 00:12:06.759 --> 00:12:10.039 it was someone you would consider well established. He had 173 00:12:10.080 --> 00:12:12.519 a job. He had been in the military, although he 174 00:12:12.559 --> 00:12:17.360 had been discharged I think dishonorably. I have those records 175 00:12:17.440 --> 00:12:21.960 that he was discharged from the army for unknown reasons. Anyway, 176 00:12:22.240 --> 00:12:26.360 he had had a variety of jobs and seemed like 177 00:12:26.480 --> 00:12:28.679 the kind of guy who would live next door to you. 178 00:12:29.039 --> 00:12:32.080 That he and his wife got into a huge fight 179 00:12:32.480 --> 00:12:37.080 and he left their home, left the kids and went 180 00:12:37.159 --> 00:12:41.759 to see a friend, and did you know, just explain 181 00:12:41.879 --> 00:12:46.519 that they had a disagreement and drank and so did she, 182 00:12:46.720 --> 00:12:50.279 And I think the alcohol certainly was a contributing factor 183 00:12:50.360 --> 00:12:56.559 and probably their fighting and their resulting imprisonment. But after 184 00:12:56.960 --> 00:13:00.600 staying with a friend, he then went off and campaign 185 00:13:00.679 --> 00:13:06.240 at King's Lake. It's a lot of popular campsite. Our 186 00:13:07.200 --> 00:13:11.080 recreation site did not have a lot of campsites. Nancy 187 00:13:11.159 --> 00:13:15.840 Laws grew up in Waukeshaw and was very well known 188 00:13:15.960 --> 00:13:19.960 in Waukeshaw. She was the college co ed attractive, she 189 00:13:20.159 --> 00:13:23.399 had a great voice, was a singer and an artist, 190 00:13:23.720 --> 00:13:27.600 and she it was getting to be break time for her, 191 00:13:27.720 --> 00:13:31.480 and she had made arrangements to meet some friends. And 192 00:13:32.120 --> 00:13:35.000 she had this hobby where she liked to go and 193 00:13:35.120 --> 00:13:38.720 visit what we considered ghost towns. We have a couple 194 00:13:38.759 --> 00:13:42.919 of those in our area in Oregon. You probably have 195 00:13:43.080 --> 00:13:47.440 some too, all settled areas where the housings and things 196 00:13:47.720 --> 00:13:52.279 still remained, but nobody's particularly living in them. So she 197 00:13:52.480 --> 00:13:56.039 had left Waukeshaw. She had packed up to go camping, 198 00:13:56.279 --> 00:13:59.080 and she went up and she had gotten to the 199 00:13:59.080 --> 00:14:02.879 campsite later than she had planned and was setting up 200 00:14:03.120 --> 00:14:07.559 her campsite when she came over and introduced himself and 201 00:14:07.759 --> 00:14:11.240 offered to help her. There were only ten, i think 202 00:14:11.320 --> 00:14:16.759 ten campsites. There were some fisher some people out fishing, 203 00:14:17.279 --> 00:14:20.559 but it was getting on towards dark. They got her 204 00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:25.279 tent set up. He had offered her a beer and 205 00:14:25.679 --> 00:14:29.159 they had been talking. At some point in the evening, 206 00:14:29.559 --> 00:14:32.960 he made a pass at her. She had thought he 207 00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:36.240 was married because he had a wedding ring on, so 208 00:14:36.399 --> 00:14:40.039 she didn't realize he was out there camping alone. I'm 209 00:14:40.039 --> 00:14:43.039 not sure she would have pitched her tent there. Had 210 00:14:43.039 --> 00:14:47.360 she known that he made a pass setter, she rejected him. 211 00:14:47.759 --> 00:14:54.679 He ended up killing her violently and then sexually assaulting 212 00:14:54.720 --> 00:14:57.720 her after she was dead, put her body in the 213 00:14:57.799 --> 00:15:02.440 trunk of his car, driven around first day and disposed 214 00:15:02.480 --> 00:15:04.679 of it very far away from the camps. 215 00:15:05.159 --> 00:15:09.320 Now, not long after there is this Doni and her 216 00:15:09.399 --> 00:15:12.720 friend Pam, and they want to go camping as well. 217 00:15:12.799 --> 00:15:15.639 So what happens in the interim in terms of police 218 00:15:15.679 --> 00:15:19.799 looking for this killer about this crime? Tell us what 219 00:15:20.600 --> 00:15:25.480 happens after that after Nancy Law's disappearance, and how many 220 00:15:25.519 --> 00:15:27.960 days it is till Dony and Pam decide to go 221 00:15:28.360 --> 00:15:30.200 camping and bump into Gene Lincoln. 222 00:15:30.320 --> 00:15:35.240 Well, there were actually months that had passed before that 223 00:15:35.399 --> 00:15:39.519 encounter happens. Jean Lincoln did not go back to comb 224 00:15:39.840 --> 00:15:43.639 after the murder of Nancy Laws. He hit her car 225 00:15:43.919 --> 00:15:50.840 and began hitch hiking around and going from campsite to campsite. 226 00:15:51.519 --> 00:15:57.120 In Donie's case, Dony lived at the lake and in 227 00:15:57.159 --> 00:16:02.720 a different county, and she was young, teen girl, beautiful, 228 00:16:02.919 --> 00:16:05.639 and she and her friend, I mean you when you 229 00:16:05.720 --> 00:16:08.759 live at the lake, like is your backyard, It's just 230 00:16:08.840 --> 00:16:13.440 your lifestyle. She knew the area very very well, and 231 00:16:13.639 --> 00:16:16.639 like a lot of teenagers, she was spending her summer 232 00:16:16.759 --> 00:16:19.799 at the lake. She had gotten permission to spend the 233 00:16:19.879 --> 00:16:22.960 night with her girlfriend, Pam, who also lived up to 234 00:16:23.000 --> 00:16:27.559 the lake, but they were actually spending the night at 235 00:16:27.559 --> 00:16:31.720 Pam's house, like Dony's parents thought she was. They had 236 00:16:31.759 --> 00:16:36.000 made arrangements with a friend to stay at his campsite. 237 00:16:36.039 --> 00:16:38.480 He was gone, so they were just going to use 238 00:16:38.559 --> 00:16:41.559 his tent and stay at there at his campsite that night, 239 00:16:41.879 --> 00:16:45.559 and that is what they did. And at some point, 240 00:16:45.799 --> 00:16:49.000 this was a very crowded campsite, by the way, there 241 00:16:49.000 --> 00:16:51.559 are lots of people there. A lot of people lived 242 00:16:51.559 --> 00:16:55.879 in the lake year round. And in this case, they 243 00:16:55.960 --> 00:16:59.080 had asked the man at the campsite near them to 244 00:16:59.240 --> 00:17:02.840 help them with problem they were having with their kerosene 245 00:17:02.919 --> 00:17:06.200 lamb or not their kerosene, but their camp plan, and 246 00:17:06.359 --> 00:17:09.720 he had helped, and they were kind of repulsed by 247 00:17:09.799 --> 00:17:14.960 this guy. Was obviously not clean and kind of scary 248 00:17:15.839 --> 00:17:19.799 all of that. But at some point they went to bed, 249 00:17:20.200 --> 00:17:24.480 and the next morning, nearly before daybreak, they had heard 250 00:17:24.519 --> 00:17:28.160 a noise outside their tent, and Tony got up to 251 00:17:28.240 --> 00:17:31.880 see what it was, and at that point Jean Lincoln 252 00:17:31.960 --> 00:17:37.359 grabbed her and began the process of an abduction. She 253 00:17:37.680 --> 00:17:42.079 was twelve at the time, but TONI, you know, was 254 00:17:42.519 --> 00:17:47.799 a twelve going on eighteen, right, so very attractive and 255 00:17:48.359 --> 00:17:51.880 because she was at the lake all the time, very athletic, 256 00:17:52.200 --> 00:17:57.480 and she was able through She believes the intervention of 257 00:17:57.519 --> 00:18:01.279 God and I believe the stream of her sure will 258 00:18:01.599 --> 00:18:05.039 to make an escape. Had she not made the escape, 259 00:18:05.160 --> 00:18:09.000 he would have killed her. But she escaped the abduction 260 00:18:09.480 --> 00:18:14.279 and then began an all out pursuit for this man. 261 00:18:14.799 --> 00:18:19.319 I don't know that they had initially put his connection 262 00:18:19.559 --> 00:18:26.680 to Nancy Laws together, but they because it was different jurdictions, jurisdictions. 263 00:18:26.720 --> 00:18:33.640 There was Waukeshaw, Kingsleg, Newago, Baga, there were different counties 264 00:18:33.680 --> 00:18:37.920 and different jurisdictions all working on these two cases. But 265 00:18:38.400 --> 00:18:42.640 at some point the police were a law enforcement I 266 00:18:42.680 --> 00:18:46.440 think it was the state police actually who picked him 267 00:18:46.519 --> 00:18:51.640 up for age hiking. He was charged initially with the 268 00:18:51.920 --> 00:18:57.160 abduction of Doni, but eventually, of course, was charged with 269 00:18:57.200 --> 00:18:59.200 the murder of Nancy Laws. 270 00:18:59.359 --> 00:19:02.759 You talk about his friend Bill Olsen that he initially 271 00:19:02.839 --> 00:19:05.799 after he broke up with his wife. He went, and 272 00:19:05.960 --> 00:19:09.240 Bill offered him a place at his home, and what 273 00:19:09.319 --> 00:19:11.839 he had brought along was a big trunk, you say, 274 00:19:12.200 --> 00:19:17.119 And so he left that trunk behind suspiciously, Bill thought, 275 00:19:17.160 --> 00:19:20.079 his friend thought, And when he had heard about the 276 00:19:20.119 --> 00:19:23.519 abduction about DONI, he decided to open that trunk and 277 00:19:23.599 --> 00:19:26.799 then called police. So what did he find in that trunk? 278 00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:30.680 And that call to police help police put this together, 279 00:19:31.039 --> 00:19:31.480 didn't it? 280 00:19:31.599 --> 00:19:34.359 Yes, that call definitely did, and that trunk had been 281 00:19:34.440 --> 00:19:39.160 at Bill's for quite some time before, you know, it 282 00:19:39.279 --> 00:19:42.000 was his friend. I suppose most of us would never 283 00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:46.640 suspect our friends as being serial killers or you know, 284 00:19:46.759 --> 00:19:51.119 a murder of any sort. Remember interviewing and Rolle once 285 00:19:51.480 --> 00:19:56.400 about her connection, you know, to Ted Bundy, and how 286 00:19:56.480 --> 00:20:01.200 surprised she was that this was someone she knew. And 287 00:20:01.319 --> 00:20:04.480 certainly that was the case with Bill. He had no idea. 288 00:20:04.640 --> 00:20:07.759 He knew his friend had a volatile temper. He knew 289 00:20:07.759 --> 00:20:10.400 he drank too much, but then so did Bill. Sure, 290 00:20:10.640 --> 00:20:15.200 so it was just as drink advite anyway. It wasn't 291 00:20:15.400 --> 00:20:20.440 until after the young girl was abducted, and I suspect, 292 00:20:20.559 --> 00:20:23.920 although I don't know this for sure, but I suspect 293 00:20:24.279 --> 00:20:28.000 what most have come to Bill's mind was the timeline 294 00:20:28.279 --> 00:20:32.000 of things. You know, that Jean would have come to 295 00:20:32.039 --> 00:20:35.440 see him after the fight with Doris, his wife, and 296 00:20:35.480 --> 00:20:41.200 then a girl ends a murdered, and then Jean comes 297 00:20:41.240 --> 00:20:45.640 to see him again, leaves his trunk, and a child 298 00:20:45.880 --> 00:20:49.799 is abducted. You know, these kind of things. The timeline 299 00:20:50.240 --> 00:20:55.200 began to seem suspicious to Bill. He had not opened 300 00:20:55.240 --> 00:20:59.240 the trunk, but after the abduction of Doni, he did 301 00:20:59.279 --> 00:21:03.519 go in the trunk, and in it was a shoe box. 302 00:21:03.920 --> 00:21:08.480 And in that shoe box had been those shoes Nancy 303 00:21:08.640 --> 00:21:12.160 Law's mother had bought her right. And it was really 304 00:21:13.000 --> 00:21:16.160 when he called police and said, you know, there was 305 00:21:16.279 --> 00:21:20.319 women's clothing in those which he knew not to be 306 00:21:21.200 --> 00:21:25.319 gen Del's wife, sure, because it was teenager, you know, 307 00:21:25.640 --> 00:21:29.920 young girl, co ed kind of clothing, couples, sketch books, 308 00:21:29.960 --> 00:21:35.519 some identification kind of things, not driver's license, but you know, 309 00:21:35.799 --> 00:21:40.480 just things that would not have belonged to missus Lincoln. 310 00:21:40.799 --> 00:21:44.119 And so at that point he called police. And it 311 00:21:44.200 --> 00:21:49.839 was when the police showed the shoebox to Nancy's mother 312 00:21:50.119 --> 00:21:55.279 that they positively identified the belonging. Since belonging to Nancy you. 313 00:21:55.400 --> 00:22:00.480 Right that the county prosecutor Springsted part of the investigation. 314 00:22:01.400 --> 00:22:05.400 He begins an investigation into the disappearance of Nancy Laws 315 00:22:05.680 --> 00:22:09.839 and so in this they find the car, and you 316 00:22:09.960 --> 00:22:14.079 talk about this incredible deal that has offered him through 317 00:22:14.119 --> 00:22:18.920 his attorneys, through the prosecutor Mather. So this is a 318 00:22:19.000 --> 00:22:22.359 fascinating this is unique. I mean, a lot of books 319 00:22:22.559 --> 00:22:25.839 about I've never seen this. So anyway, please tell us 320 00:22:25.839 --> 00:22:30.160 about what happens and this incredible offer and why. 321 00:22:30.079 --> 00:22:33.640 Well they did financing Laws car that they had not 322 00:22:33.799 --> 00:22:38.079 found your body. And as the case in a lot 323 00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:42.880 of murders, situations like this where the body is now found, 324 00:22:43.039 --> 00:22:49.079 prosecutors will often offer a deal to the suspects because 325 00:22:49.519 --> 00:22:52.079 they want to be able to return that body to 326 00:22:52.160 --> 00:22:57.960 the family. And sometimes those deals, I think often times 327 00:22:58.119 --> 00:23:03.079 those families feel, yes, they want the bodies, but they 328 00:23:03.240 --> 00:23:07.880 don't like the deals being made because it often feels 329 00:23:07.960 --> 00:23:11.799 like these people are not going to be held accountable 330 00:23:11.880 --> 00:23:15.680 for the great wrongs they have done. And what happened 331 00:23:15.799 --> 00:23:20.880 in this particular case is that the prosecutor had offered 332 00:23:21.359 --> 00:23:27.640 Jean Lencoln a deal to find out where Nancy's body was, 333 00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:31.759 but he had not done that with the court's approval. 334 00:23:32.200 --> 00:23:35.759 The judge had not agreed to this ahead of time. 335 00:23:36.160 --> 00:23:40.200 There has been no discussion, so he's just offering this 336 00:23:40.519 --> 00:23:45.039 on his own to get to that body. And Gene 337 00:23:45.160 --> 00:23:49.519 does reveal where Nancy's body is at. But then the 338 00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:54.160 judge is furious over the deal that has been cut 339 00:23:54.400 --> 00:23:58.680 and he rejects it because the deal was to charge 340 00:23:58.759 --> 00:24:02.759 Gene with the abduction of Doni, but to let him 341 00:24:02.799 --> 00:24:05.920 off lightly on the murder of Nancy, which had been 342 00:24:06.160 --> 00:24:11.440 extremely violent. As I pointed out, he's sexually assaulted her 343 00:24:11.640 --> 00:24:16.079 after she was murdered. He probably assaulted her before she 344 00:24:16.240 --> 00:24:18.640 was murdered, but he didn't want to say that. He 345 00:24:19.000 --> 00:24:21.640 didn't really want to say that he had assaulted her 346 00:24:21.720 --> 00:24:25.400 after she was murdered either, but he said he couldn't remember. 347 00:24:25.680 --> 00:24:29.160 But in this case, the judge threw it out and said, no, 348 00:24:29.599 --> 00:24:32.319 you know, we're not going to cut that deal because 349 00:24:32.799 --> 00:24:36.119 this is too light of a sentence. It was ten 350 00:24:36.200 --> 00:24:42.319 years for an extremely painous act. And so the judge 351 00:24:42.519 --> 00:24:47.000 and the attorneys got into it in the courtroom and 352 00:24:47.079 --> 00:24:50.960 the judge just rejected it. Well, that put the attorney 353 00:24:51.000 --> 00:24:54.519 in the bands situation with the Jean, who had already 354 00:24:54.559 --> 00:24:58.079 told them where the body was at. So what happens 355 00:24:58.279 --> 00:25:01.920 is the attorney then gets moved to a different judge 356 00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:03.680 who then does approve it. 357 00:25:03.880 --> 00:25:07.839 So incredibly, he keeps this deal and honors this deal, 358 00:25:08.200 --> 00:25:11.079 and so Jeene Lincoln is sent to prison. 359 00:25:11.240 --> 00:25:13.119 You right for only ten years? 360 00:25:13.319 --> 00:25:15.599 Yes, you're right, for the minimum of ten years. He 361 00:25:15.720 --> 00:25:18.920 had a maximum of fifteen and a minimum of ten, 362 00:25:18.960 --> 00:25:23.680 I believe, And he's released in ten Interestingly, who welcomes 363 00:25:23.920 --> 00:25:27.200 him into their home after he is released? 364 00:25:27.279 --> 00:25:34.119 Well, that was shocking to me. Actually, it was Luke's sister, Leah, 365 00:25:34.160 --> 00:25:38.720 who explained to me that her grandfather came to live 366 00:25:38.799 --> 00:25:42.599 with the family in North Morgan to North Carolina after 367 00:25:42.720 --> 00:25:47.400 he's released from prison. Now, when I interviewed Leah, she 368 00:25:47.759 --> 00:25:53.000 maintained that nobody in the family, she and Luke, didn't 369 00:25:53.079 --> 00:25:56.839 know what their grandfather was in prison for. In fact, 370 00:25:56.880 --> 00:26:00.000 didn't even know they had a grandfather till he showed up. 371 00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:07.240 According to Leah, the only grandparents she had any contact 372 00:26:07.319 --> 00:26:11.880 with had been her grandmother's. She had only she could 373 00:26:11.880 --> 00:26:17.400 only remember seen Doris one or two times. Apparently she 374 00:26:17.680 --> 00:26:22.400 was quite an alcoholic and it was Leah's mom, Heidi, 375 00:26:22.599 --> 00:26:28.039 who became the primary, you know, maternal figure in the household, 376 00:26:28.160 --> 00:26:30.279 having to do a lot and take care of a 377 00:26:30.279 --> 00:26:34.359 lot of things, and their lives were completely disrupted, as 378 00:26:34.400 --> 00:26:38.079 you can imagine with any situation where head of a 379 00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:42.839 household that's in prison. So LEAs said, she didn't know 380 00:26:42.960 --> 00:26:48.920 she had any grandfather's. Her contact with her paternal grandmother 381 00:26:49.079 --> 00:26:53.640 was limited because her paternal grandmother was a Harmong refugee 382 00:26:53.720 --> 00:26:58.839 from South Vietnam and did not speak English, and Lanne 383 00:26:58.920 --> 00:27:03.839 did not speak come Up or Vietnamese, so whatever contact 384 00:27:03.880 --> 00:27:09.519 she had with that particular grandmother was very limited. Leya's father, Jay, 385 00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:14.119 had moved the family to Morganton, North Carolina, from Illinois, 386 00:27:14.480 --> 00:27:19.759 where his family had emigrated to following the Vietnam War, 387 00:27:20.319 --> 00:27:27.160 and they and Heide had gone to Morganton. Initially, Jay 388 00:27:27.359 --> 00:27:31.599 was called to be the pastor there at the Baptist 389 00:27:31.720 --> 00:27:36.319 church there in Morganton for whatever reason that nobody would 390 00:27:36.400 --> 00:27:41.079 talk about, including the church folks. He did not last 391 00:27:41.119 --> 00:27:44.079 in that job for more than a year and began 392 00:27:44.240 --> 00:27:48.880 working instead at one of the many furniture factories there 393 00:27:48.920 --> 00:27:54.119 in foothills of Appalachia, and so all of a sudden 394 00:27:54.640 --> 00:27:57.680 you know, when Lea' is about four or five years old, 395 00:27:57.839 --> 00:28:02.240 her grandmother shows up out of nowhere, arrives on a bus, 396 00:28:02.319 --> 00:28:07.079 and her mom and family then just go and welcome 397 00:28:07.200 --> 00:28:11.440 him like you would any long lost relative you hadn't 398 00:28:11.440 --> 00:28:15.079 seen it in a dozen years. And he comes and 399 00:28:15.160 --> 00:28:19.160 lives at Leah with the Chain family there for a 400 00:28:19.200 --> 00:28:23.000 while until he gets out on his own. There's never 401 00:28:23.079 --> 00:28:28.119