1 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:34,799 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Great Detectives of Old Time Radio from Boise, Idaho. 2 00:00:35,039 --> 00:00:38,479 This is your host, Adam Graham. In a moment, we're 3 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:42,320 going to bring you this week's episode of Dragnet. But 4 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:44,799 first I do want to encourage you, if you're enjoying 5 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:49,200 the podcast, to please follow us using your favorite podcast software. 6 00:00:49,719 --> 00:00:52,759 I also want to let you know to today's program 7 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:55,759 is brought you part by the financial support of our listeners. 8 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:59,000 You can support the show on a one time basis 9 00:00:59,079 --> 00:01:03,159 by melan it or donation to Adam Graham piel Box 10 00:01:03,439 --> 00:01:06,920 one five nine one three. That's peel Box one five 11 00:01:07,079 --> 00:01:12,840 nine thirteen, Boise, Idaho eight three seven one five. And 12 00:01:12,879 --> 00:01:16,799 I want to thank Ron and Nancy and Carolyn for 13 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:20,799 sending along donations that way. And you can also become 14 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:23,599 one of our ongoing Patreon supporters for as little as 15 00:01:23,599 --> 00:01:26,519 two dollars per month by going to Patreon dot Great 16 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:31,560 Detectives dot net. Now from February twenty second, nineteen fifty one, 17 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:34,000 here is the Big Couple. 18 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 2: Ladies and Gentlemen. Crime Prevention Week, now being observed nationally, 19 00:01:39,159 --> 00:01:42,799 is designed for one purpose to emphasize that crime is 20 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:46,760 your personal enemy, costs money and lives. It weakens the 21 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:50,280 moral and physical strength of your community. Show your respect 22 00:01:50,319 --> 00:01:53,359 for the law by cooperating with your police officer fifty 23 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:56,239 two weeks a year. Join the fight to stamp out 24 00:01:56,319 --> 00:01:58,159 crime the ally of treason. 25 00:02:05,359 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 3: The story you are about to hear is true, only 26 00:02:08,439 --> 00:02:18,000 the names have been changed to protect the innocent. You're 27 00:02:18,039 --> 00:02:22,719 a detective sergeant. You're assigned to Bunco Detail. A husband 28 00:02:22,719 --> 00:02:25,800 and wife confidence team has shifted operations to your city. 29 00:02:26,599 --> 00:02:30,639 Their criminal record dates back seventeen years. Their masters in 30 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:32,960 the art of swindling your job. 31 00:02:33,879 --> 00:02:43,639 Speaker 4: Get them. 32 00:02:43,759 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 5: Drag Met the documented drama of an actual crime. While 33 00:02:47,599 --> 00:02:50,240 the next thirty minutes, in cooperation with the Los Angeles 34 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:53,280 Police Department, you will travel step by step on the 35 00:02:53,319 --> 00:02:55,879 side of the law through an actual case transcribed from 36 00:02:55,879 --> 00:03:00,639 official police files, from beginning to end, from crime to punishment. 37 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:03,759 Dragnet is the story of your police force in action. 38 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,759 Speaker 2: It was Monday, April twentieth. It was windy in Los Angeles. 39 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:13,159 We were working the day Watch out of Bunco Detail. 40 00:03:13,479 --> 00:03:16,240 My partner's Ben Ramero. The boss is Captain McCauley. My 41 00:03:16,319 --> 00:03:18,520 name is Friday. We're on the way out from the 42 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:20,879 office and was ten thirty five am when we got 43 00:03:20,879 --> 00:03:23,159 to the Holy Gospel Tabernacle. 44 00:03:24,159 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 6: Pastor's house. Look at that palm dray. Yeah, winds storm 45 00:03:32,599 --> 00:03:34,719 shore didn't do it any good. I was really born 46 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:36,680 last night. Woked me up a couple of times, and 47 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:44,520 not me. I slept like a baby. What'd you say? 48 00:03:44,599 --> 00:03:50,479 The name here was Olsen. Yeah you got it right here, reverend, 49 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:55,680 and rules doesn't seem to be anybody at home. I 50 00:03:55,680 --> 00:04:03,439 don't try it again when we sit on the phone, 51 00:04:03,439 --> 00:04:05,800 and neither be here at the church. Where's that just 52 00:04:05,879 --> 00:04:12,599 driving the corner faces on the south Spring. Not a 53 00:04:12,719 --> 00:04:20,839 very wealthy looking neighborhood. There must be the church up there. Mm. 54 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:25,360 Sure couldn't stand the code of pain. Grounds are well kept? 55 00:04:25,439 --> 00:04:29,920 Anything nice flower beds other than giant pansies. Tried some 56 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:32,879 in the backyard last year. Too bad. What do you 57 00:04:32,959 --> 00:04:36,399 mean giant snails? Sliced him right off with the roots. 58 00:04:42,079 --> 00:04:43,480 Speaker 4: I guess that must be him up at the front 59 00:04:43,519 --> 00:04:44,759 of better close the door. 60 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:58,480 Speaker 7: Oh yeah, come on, uh excuse me, sir. 61 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:01,519 Speaker 8: Oh didn't see you? You the Reverend Olson? 62 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:02,279 Speaker 4: Yes? 63 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 8: Can I help him? 64 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:05,839 Speaker 2: My name's Friday, Reverend. I talked to you on the phone. Oh, yes, sergeant, 65 00:05:05,879 --> 00:05:07,800 And this is my partner, Sergeant Romero. How do you 66 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:13,279 do sergeant Mao, that's Romero ravernd Oh excuse me, Romero. 67 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:16,439 Didn't expect you so soon. A little busy here fixing 68 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:20,199 the pulpit. It happened last Sunday. What's that really? I 69 00:05:20,199 --> 00:05:23,680 guess I got carried away with my sermon. Quite a commotion. Oh, 70 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:25,199 leaned forward in the pulpit. 71 00:05:25,399 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 9: This whole section here just splintered and broke right off, 72 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:32,560 ruined my whole sermon. Well, I can finish this up later. 73 00:05:32,639 --> 00:05:42,800 Have it share their offices very much? Yeah, well, there 74 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:47,639 it is. Sergeants, their names, descriptions, and missus Tom Herbert 75 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:48,759 that's the name they used. 76 00:05:48,759 --> 00:05:49,079 Speaker 8: Anyway. 77 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:51,720 Speaker 4: Would you mind briefing this and then how it happened? Reverend? 78 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:53,079 When did you first meet this couple? 79 00:05:53,519 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 9: It came to us a little over a month ago. 80 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:58,879 They didn't have any reason to be suspicious. Mister Herbert 81 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:00,720 showed me some fine rapperence says, I didn't think it 82 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:01,800 was necessary to check them. 83 00:06:01,879 --> 00:06:03,519 Speaker 8: What kind of approach did they used? 84 00:06:03,519 --> 00:06:04,600 Speaker 4: Could you do it well? 85 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 9: The first visit, Missus Herbert did most of the talking. 86 00:06:07,439 --> 00:06:09,199 She told me she and her husband wanted to write 87 00:06:09,199 --> 00:06:11,800 a history of our church. It was supposed to be 88 00:06:11,879 --> 00:06:14,199 part of an historical book on all the churches in 89 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:14,720 the county. 90 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:17,439 Speaker 4: Naturally, I felt a little flattered about it. 91 00:06:17,959 --> 00:06:20,079 Speaker 2: Did this mister and missus Herbert make any demands for 92 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:21,639 money or to write about your church? 93 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:24,319 Speaker 4: I mean, oh no, no, there was no money involved 94 00:06:24,319 --> 00:06:25,040 at first. 95 00:06:25,399 --> 00:06:25,720 Speaker 8: They said. 96 00:06:25,759 --> 00:06:28,040 Speaker 9: All I wanted was our cooperation and doing some of 97 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:30,879 the research work, you know, looking up dates. 98 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 8: Names, things like that. I see. 99 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:37,079 Speaker 9: It seemed very sincere. Both of them didn't drink smoked. 100 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:40,959 They worked very hard during research and writing. I don't 101 00:06:40,959 --> 00:06:43,000 know why they had to change. Would have been nice 102 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:45,160 having history written about our church, Yes, sir. 103 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:47,519 Speaker 4: Why did they first bring up the idea of money. 104 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:50,079 Speaker 9: Well, mister Herbert gave me one day and showed me 105 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:52,639 this letter. It was supposed to be from the people 106 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:54,639 who were going to publish the history of our church. 107 00:06:55,439 --> 00:06:58,920 Letters said, well, because of certain business reasons, the whole 108 00:06:58,920 --> 00:06:59,560 thing was off. 109 00:06:59,639 --> 00:07:03,079 Speaker 4: They could and published the book. Mister Herbert acted very sorry. 110 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:05,560 Did he leave that letter with your reverend. 111 00:07:05,199 --> 00:07:08,079 Speaker 9: No, he took it with him. I felt badly about 112 00:07:08,079 --> 00:07:10,240 the whole thing. They're doing all that work and then 113 00:07:10,279 --> 00:07:11,920 the book not being published. 114 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 6: Did the Herberts brought the idea of you and the 115 00:07:14,439 --> 00:07:16,079 church putting up the money to print the book? 116 00:07:16,439 --> 00:07:19,079 Speaker 9: Well, no, not exactly, but I guess they gave me 117 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:19,600 the idea. 118 00:07:19,879 --> 00:07:20,399 Speaker 8: How do you mean? 119 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 9: They suggested that I talk it over the church board, 120 00:07:23,439 --> 00:07:26,399 so I did. We all agreed it to be ashamed 121 00:07:26,439 --> 00:07:28,079 to give up the idea of the book after so 122 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:29,399 much work had gone into it. 123 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:31,360 Speaker 4: Is that when you agreed to finance the. 124 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:33,480 Speaker 8: Book, well, the board and I did. 125 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 4: Yes, It's all my fault, though I helped to persuade 126 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:38,720 them the money came out of church funds? Is that? 127 00:07:39,079 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 9: As a matter of fact, it didn't. We only have 128 00:07:41,759 --> 00:07:45,000 a small operating fund. So you can see where small 129 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:46,839 church congregation isn't wealthy. 130 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:48,759 Speaker 6: And where did money come from? 131 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:51,319 Speaker 9: Well, for one thing, the ladies of the Altar Society 132 00:07:51,399 --> 00:07:53,319 put on a Sunday afternoon Ham dinner. 133 00:07:53,959 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 8: It made some money, and then the. 134 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 9: Herbert suggested we helped sell advertising to pay part of 135 00:07:58,160 --> 00:07:59,439 the cost, so we did that too. 136 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:00,959 Speaker 8: It still wasn't enough. 137 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:03,279 Speaker 4: Well, exactly how much did you turn over to the Herbits? 138 00:08:03,519 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 9: Eight hundred and four dollars and sixty one cents I 139 00:08:07,079 --> 00:08:08,959 had to borrow three hundred and fifty from the bank 140 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:11,519 to make it. It all had to be paid back 141 00:08:11,839 --> 00:08:14,920 people who paid for their advertising too. It all had 142 00:08:14,959 --> 00:08:17,360 to come out of our pockets. A terrible thing. Yes, 143 00:08:17,439 --> 00:08:22,000 it's terrible. I don't know what I'm going to do. Hey, 144 00:08:22,079 --> 00:08:25,680 that's congregation for it. Their offerings have always been so generous, 145 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:28,360 and they're not wealthy, Ei, They're just working people. 146 00:08:28,519 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 4: When was the last time that you heard from this 147 00:08:30,199 --> 00:08:31,319 mister miss Herbert Rever? 148 00:08:31,639 --> 00:08:35,360 Speaker 9: Week ago? I guess yes, it was last Monday. I 149 00:08:35,399 --> 00:08:37,759 got anxious and called them at their hotel. It's on 150 00:08:37,879 --> 00:08:41,039 South Grand I can give you the address. They told 151 00:08:41,039 --> 00:08:42,480 me when the books would be ready, and said it 152 00:08:42,519 --> 00:08:43,480 would be on Tuesday. 153 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:46,159 Speaker 8: It's the last I heard them. 154 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:48,720 Speaker 2: No forwarding address, no other place that you think we 155 00:08:48,799 --> 00:08:49,559 might find them. 156 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 9: No, I'm sorry, just don't have any idea. So hard 157 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:56,120 to believe anyone would do such a thing to us. 158 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:58,399 Speaker 6: Yes, see, when if we could have the address of 159 00:08:58,480 --> 00:08:59,360 their hotel. 160 00:08:59,159 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 8: Yes, sir, come with me, I have it over the house. 161 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:04,519 Speaker 4: Did did mister and missus Herbert have a car? Do 162 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:05,080 you know, Reverend? 163 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:07,879 Speaker 9: I don't think so. If they did, I never saw it. 164 00:09:08,919 --> 00:09:11,600 You know what I'm going to tell the congregation. Eight 165 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:14,159 hundred dollars. It's a lot of money to our people. Yes, 166 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:18,440 tell me, sergeant. I don't mean to be uncharitable. But 167 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:23,039 mister and missus Herbert, they have a criminal record. Have 168 00:09:23,159 --> 00:09:25,039 they done this sort of thing before? 169 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 2: Well, their descriptions seem to fit a couple that we've 170 00:09:27,159 --> 00:09:29,080 been looking for. They've been working the churches in this 171 00:09:29,159 --> 00:09:30,360 area on and off for a couple. 172 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 4: Of years now. I can't understand why they do such 173 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:33,399 a thing. 174 00:09:33,639 --> 00:09:35,320 Speaker 8: It's almost like robbing at poor box. 175 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:36,679 Speaker 4: Yes, so they've done that too. 176 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:41,519 Speaker 2: Eleven fifteen am we went back to the city Hall 177 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:43,720 and pulled the package on the suspects, mister and missus 178 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:44,480 Tom Herbert. 179 00:09:44,879 --> 00:09:45,279 Speaker 10: They were a. 180 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:47,919 Speaker 2: Veteran man and wife confidence team who'd worked the Los 181 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:51,440 Angeles area and other large cities around the country. There 182 00:09:51,519 --> 00:09:55,360 especialty seemed to be swindling churches and clergymen over. 183 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:56,399 Speaker 4: A period of seventeen years. 184 00:09:56,399 --> 00:09:59,320 Speaker 2: They piled up a long record involving frauds and various 185 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:02,200 bunco games, but they'd only been brought to trial once 186 00:10:03,039 --> 00:10:05,320 the case had been dismissed for lack of sufficient evidence. 187 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:09,240 Eleven thirty five am. We took mug shots of mister 188 00:10:09,279 --> 00:10:11,000 and missus Herbert out to the Reverend. 189 00:10:10,639 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 4: Olsen and he identified them. 190 00:10:12,639 --> 00:10:14,759 Speaker 2: We checked the hotel on South Grand where they'd been 191 00:10:14,799 --> 00:10:18,279 staying no leeds. We got out a local broadcast and 192 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,639 an APV on them. Together with the sheriff's office, we 193 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:24,080 sent a special bulletin about the Herberts to the pastors 194 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:27,000 of the different churches in the city and county. From 195 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:29,360 the list of names on the Marmi sheet, we began 196 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:31,159 checking out all the known friends. 197 00:10:30,799 --> 00:10:32,279 Speaker 4: And relatives of the suspects. 198 00:10:32,759 --> 00:10:35,279 Speaker 2: One of them was a Clyde Harris, proprietor of a 199 00:10:35,279 --> 00:10:39,279 physical culture school out in the Wiltshire district. One pm Tuesday, 200 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:50,519 we drove out to talk to him. Which way, Jill, 201 00:10:50,799 --> 00:10:59,200 right down the street the blue and whints signed Oh yeah. 202 00:10:56,679 --> 00:10:59,639 Speaker 6: Venus School of Physical Culture. I can make you and 203 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:04,600 all American girl. Clyde Harris manager looks like the office here, 204 00:11:04,639 --> 00:11:06,080 you know we're supposed to meet him in the gym 205 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:06,840 that's next door. 206 00:11:06,919 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 11: Oh yeah here, no glad, No yeahs. 207 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:18,279 Speaker 4: Back this way. 208 00:11:18,279 --> 00:11:18,960 Speaker 10: I guess. 209 00:11:21,039 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 12: All right, now, what are you going to see? All 210 00:11:24,039 --> 00:11:25,519 together with me? 211 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:29,759 Speaker 4: Lean cow. 212 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 12: Who now ex. 213 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:40,399 Speaker 6: Now, well, please clean cool, it's awesome. 214 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:42,159 Speaker 12: Whoa down? 215 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:42,840 Speaker 10: Why? 216 00:11:44,159 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 12: Who down too? 217 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:51,200 Speaker 6: Then? Then down? 218 00:11:53,279 --> 00:11:55,879 Speaker 4: Hold in a minute now, I'm sorry, this is Tollison. 219 00:11:55,919 --> 00:11:58,159 Speaker 12: You're doing it wrong. Your pelvis is all out of position. 220 00:11:58,279 --> 00:11:59,720 Speaker 4: Excuse me, you're Clyde Harris. 221 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:01,039 Speaker 8: Yes, did you want something? 222 00:12:01,519 --> 00:12:03,279 Speaker 4: Police officers but to Harris like talk to you? 223 00:12:03,399 --> 00:12:04,039 Speaker 10: Oh yeah, sir? 224 00:12:04,039 --> 00:12:05,080 Speaker 6: Could you hold on half a minute? 225 00:12:05,159 --> 00:12:07,720 Speaker 4: Chuirg Alady Francis, would you take over. 226 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 12: Here for a few minutes. I have to talk to 227 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:10,320 these gentlemen ladies. 228 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:12,440 Speaker 6: Francis is going to count for you for a while. 229 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:14,159 Speaker 12: You go right ahead with a lesson. I'll be back 230 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:14,879 in a few minutes. 231 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 6: Back here, officers won't take too long with you, nose 232 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:24,480 just a few minutes. Sorry to interrupt your last It's 233 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:26,639 all right. I just don't want to have the ladies 234 00:12:26,639 --> 00:12:30,639 thinking uneglected. And they paid good money for these exercises. Yeah, 235 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:35,679 here we are. I had a cherry thank you. You 236 00:12:35,759 --> 00:12:38,399 said something about Tom Herbert on the phone, sergeant. 237 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:39,159 Speaker 12: What's it all about? 238 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:40,919 Speaker 4: Well, we understand that you're a friend of the Herbert's. 239 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:41,559 Mister Harris. 240 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:43,799 Speaker 6: Yeah, I knew Tom and Dorris a couple of years back. 241 00:12:43,879 --> 00:12:45,559 I haven't seen much of them lately. When was the 242 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:49,200 last time is oone seen? Must be two three months? Anyway, 243 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:49,799 anything wrong? 244 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:50,320 Speaker 8: Well? 245 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:51,679 Speaker 4: Do you know where we could locate them? 246 00:12:51,879 --> 00:12:52,799 Speaker 8: I don't know for sure. 247 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:54,960 Speaker 6: Last time I saw him they were at a hotel 248 00:12:55,039 --> 00:12:57,799 downtown in South Grand I think you know South Grand 249 00:12:57,799 --> 00:12:58,639 writing your people. 250 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 4: We have no idea where they moved for the left there. No, 251 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:02,080 I didn't even know they've moved. 252 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 6: They haven't phoned or contacted you all in the last 253 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:06,919 month or so. No, not a word and none in 254 00:13:06,919 --> 00:13:07,919 the jam Again, are they. 255 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:09,720 Speaker 4: We'd like to talk to him? That's Would you know 256 00:13:09,759 --> 00:13:12,519 of any of their favorite spots around town? Eating drinking places? 257 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:12,759 Speaker 2: No? 258 00:13:12,879 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 6: I don't think I could say. They got around quite 259 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:17,039 a bit. You checked with some of their other friends 260 00:13:17,039 --> 00:13:20,159 around town and Pattens and Thompson's Mike run Yam what 261 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:22,399 was that last one? Mike Runyan very good friend of 262 00:13:22,399 --> 00:13:25,080 the Herberts Ben No, I don't recall the name. 263 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:27,039 Speaker 4: But how could we get in touch with this run in? 264 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:28,120 Mister Harris, He's. 265 00:13:27,919 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 6: Got a phone. Come out in the office. We'll call 266 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:38,639 him if you like, Thank you very much. I'll get 267 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:40,480 Mike on the line for you. To introduced you. 268 00:13:40,759 --> 00:13:42,960 Speaker 2: Would you mind talking to them, Harris, don't tell them 269 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:44,559 it's for us. Just ask if he knows where the 270 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:45,519 Herberts are, would mine? 271 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:45,720 Speaker 1: Yeah? 272 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:52,159 Speaker 8: All right, no answer? 273 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:56,960 Speaker 6: Maybe hello, Mike fight Harris, Mike, Yeah, how are you fine? 274 00:13:57,759 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 8: Fine? Yeah? 275 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:00,200 Speaker 6: A long time is am? 276 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:00,320 Speaker 8: Mike? 277 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 6: You any idea where Tom Endras Herbert are? 278 00:14:04,799 --> 00:14:05,279 Speaker 8: Is right? 279 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 4: How about that? 280 00:14:08,519 --> 00:14:09,080 Speaker 12: How you doing? 281 00:14:09,759 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 6: No, that's okay, it's not important. Sure, I think, Mike, 282 00:14:12,279 --> 00:14:17,399 make it soon, eh, right y? Yeah, No, he doesn't 283 00:14:17,399 --> 00:14:19,159 know where the Herbert's is staying. Saw him a week 284 00:14:19,159 --> 00:14:21,200 ago out in Hollywood, though, says they're doing fine. 285 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:21,799 Speaker 8: How do you mean? 286 00:14:22,279 --> 00:14:24,919 Speaker 6: Ran into him outside that big church on Hollywood Boulevard. 287 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:27,200 They told Mike all about it. They really got religion, 288 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:27,759 that's so. 289 00:14:28,159 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 10: Yeah. 290 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:30,159 Speaker 6: They're even writing a book about the church. 291 00:14:32,279 --> 00:14:34,679 Speaker 2: We called back Mike Runyon, the friend of the suspect, 292 00:14:34,679 --> 00:14:36,360 and he gave us the location of the church where 293 00:14:36,399 --> 00:14:39,039 he'd seen mister and missus Herbert. Ben and I drove 294 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:42,080 out there and talked to the pastor, Reverend John Kenworth. 295 00:14:42,639 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 4: We showed him the Herbert's mugshots and he identified them. 296 00:14:45,399 --> 00:14:46,159 They were going under the. 297 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:48,519 Speaker 2: Name of Williams and supposedly they were writing a book 298 00:14:48,519 --> 00:14:51,639 about the history of the church. To cover publishing expenses 299 00:14:51,679 --> 00:14:55,480 and research, more than one thousand dollars from Perry's contributions 300 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:57,679 had been placed in a separate account at a local bank. 301 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:00,320 Reverend Kenworth told us that it was a special the 302 00:15:00,399 --> 00:15:02,480 count and the Herberts had access to it. 303 00:15:03,039 --> 00:15:04,639 Speaker 4: Ben got on the phone, called the bank. 304 00:15:05,519 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 8: How's that? 305 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 6: Yes, yes, sir, uh huh, yeah, all right, thank you. 306 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:14,519 Were they saying the two of them were in the 307 00:15:14,519 --> 00:15:16,919 bank yesterday. They didn't draw out everything. How much do 308 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:21,799 they leave? Three dollars? 309 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:23,559 Speaker 2: Ben and I checked with the teller at the bank 310 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:25,879 and showed him mugshots of mister and missus Herbert. He 311 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:28,840 identified them as the couple who'd withdrawn the church funds. 312 00:15:29,159 --> 00:15:31,519 We went to the hotel address the suspects. 313 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:32,360 Speaker 4: Had given to Reverend Kenworth. 314 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:36,279 Speaker 2: They checked out two days before the search went on. 315 00:15:37,159 --> 00:15:40,320 Two weeks passed, we ran out of leeds, no further 316 00:15:40,399 --> 00:15:44,000 reports on the couple. A month went by Tuesday, May 317 00:15:44,039 --> 00:15:47,039 twenty third, we got an APB from San Francisco and 318 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:50,639 a couple answering the Herbert's description. They were still working 319 00:15:50,639 --> 00:15:53,440 at Church Angle. During the next six weeks, we got 320 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:57,639 reports on them from Washington, Oregon, Nevada, and northern California. 321 00:15:57,919 --> 00:16:00,879 In Sacramento, they apparently changed their mo for the first time. 322 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:05,240 They started selling phony health insurance policies. They promised everything, 323 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:07,519 and they had a lot of takers. One of the 324 00:16:07,519 --> 00:16:11,000 big selling points was a clause which promised full protection. 325 00:16:10,679 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 4: If anybody in the family should come down with polio. 326 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 2: From Sacramento, they headed south to Oakland and then to Fresno. 327 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:19,679 On July tenth, the complaints started to come in and 328 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:21,759 we knew the Herberts had moved into Los Angeles with 329 00:16:21,799 --> 00:16:24,720 their health insurance racket. One of the first victims was 330 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:27,440 a Carl Fogerty. He lived out in the West Lake area. 331 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 4: There's a policy they gave me. Sorry, he picks health insurance. 332 00:16:32,519 --> 00:16:33,879 Not worth the paper it's printed on. 333 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:35,919 Speaker 6: When did they sell you this, mister foger Do you 334 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:37,799 remember three weeks ago? 335 00:16:37,919 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 13: I guess never would have known it was phony if 336 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:41,159 my boy hadn't come. 337 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:41,799 Speaker 4: Down with polio. 338 00:16:42,039 --> 00:16:42,919 Speaker 8: How's he getting along? 339 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 4: It's a too good right leg. He's got it bad. 340 00:16:45,639 --> 00:16:48,919 Speaker 13: There's not as if we don't have enough grief. 341 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:51,120 Speaker 4: We got to lose out on this bum insurance. You 342 00:16:51,159 --> 00:16:53,559 matter if I take a look at that policy, sir, Oh, 343 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:54,399 go ahead. 344 00:16:54,399 --> 00:17:00,519 Speaker 6: Here we are, Yeah, the same outfit, Joe, Apex Health Insurance, 345 00:17:00,799 --> 00:17:02,039 same pony address. 346 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 4: Would you remember the man who sold you this? Do 347 00:17:05,279 --> 00:17:06,720 you think I think I would? 348 00:17:06,759 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 8: Yeah? 349 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 4: I wonder if you'd mind looking through these pictures, mister Fogerty, 350 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:16,920 not at all. Just look at them carefully if you will. 351 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 13: Yeah, this one, that's him. 352 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:26,160 Speaker 4: I remember who's he? 353 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:28,799 Speaker 6: His name's Herbert. When he came in to sell you 354 00:17:28,839 --> 00:17:30,079 this policy, was he alone? 355 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:33,119 Speaker 13: Yeah, he was, and a real good sales to it. 356 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:37,119 How much did you pay for the insurance? Let me see? 357 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:39,880 Speaker 6: Forty three dollars and some odd sense. 358 00:17:40,079 --> 00:17:42,079 Speaker 13: I remember that cause I cashed him a war bond 359 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:44,000 and I took five dollars out of the rent money. 360 00:17:44,039 --> 00:17:46,279 Speaker 4: Outside of this policy here, you have no other papers 361 00:17:46,279 --> 00:17:47,440 that the man might have given. 362 00:17:47,279 --> 00:17:50,920 Speaker 13: You, No nothing but this business card here he gave 363 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:55,119 me that you see here, the same name Apex Health Insurance. 364 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, thank you very much, mister Fogerty. We hope 365 00:17:59,000 --> 00:17:59,559 you little. 366 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:02,440 Speaker 6: Boy out of it all right, Yes, thanks, Well, here's 367 00:18:02,519 --> 00:18:06,440 our cards. There's anything we can do, give us a call. Sure, okay, 368 00:18:07,039 --> 00:18:08,319 but timely checked the office. 369 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:09,039 Speaker 10: Huh I think? 370 00:18:09,079 --> 00:18:11,559 Speaker 4: So do you have a phone here, mister Fogerty, Oh yeah, 371 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:13,920 so I did, straight back in the hall there help 372 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:14,960 you O. Thank you very much? 373 00:18:26,799 --> 00:18:32,079 Speaker 14: Two five seven two yeah, that's right. Yeah, Fred Joe 374 00:18:32,079 --> 00:18:36,720 Friday the name for us in the book m west 375 00:18:36,759 --> 00:18:39,440 seven Yeah, okay, right, thanks Fred? 376 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:44,880 Speaker 8: Anything doing? And what's pretty good? 377 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:45,519 Speaker 4: Office? 378 00:18:45,559 --> 00:18:47,519 Speaker 2: Got a call from a printing shop out on West seventh. 379 00:18:47,559 --> 00:18:49,519 The manager's got an order. Reason, not too sure about. 380 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:51,599 How do you mean it's for a batch of letterhead 381 00:18:51,599 --> 00:18:53,079 stationary business cards? 382 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:55,759 Speaker 4: Yeah, for who Apex Health Insurance. 383 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 5: You are listening to Dragnet will the step by step 384 00:19:09,079 --> 00:19:16,480 solution to Tonight's authentic case history. 385 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:22,359 Speaker 2: Wednesday, July tenth, four pm, Ben and I drove back 386 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:24,680 downtown to the printing shop on West seventh Street and 387 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:25,640 talked with the manager. 388 00:19:26,039 --> 00:19:28,559 Speaker 4: He told us that the order for stationary and business. 389 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:30,680 Speaker 2: Cards for the Apex Health Insurance company had been placed 390 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:33,839 two days before. He said he becomes suspicious after reading 391 00:19:33,839 --> 00:19:35,880 a story in one of the newspapers about the polio 392 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:38,960 insurance fraud. He also said that the customer who had 393 00:19:39,039 --> 00:19:41,160 ordered this stuff was a woman. She told him that 394 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:43,000 she would call and pick up the order on Friday. 395 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:45,759 We showed the manager a handful of mugshots. He could 396 00:19:45,799 --> 00:19:48,559 give us only a partial identification of Missus Herbert's picture. 397 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:50,920 We called the office, told them we were going on 398 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:54,039 steakhout and arranged for a relief. Ben and I spent 399 00:19:54,079 --> 00:19:56,200 the rest of Wednesday and all day Thursday and Friday 400 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:58,000 in the rear of the print shop where we could 401 00:19:58,079 --> 00:20:01,640 keep an eye on everyone entering their place. Friday six pm, 402 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:03,880 no sign of the Herberts. Not a trace. 403 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:07,680 Speaker 4: Saturday the same, no sign of either one of them. 404 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:12,319 Speaker 2: Monday, more waiting. The suspects stayed away. Tuesday three point 405 00:20:12,319 --> 00:20:15,079 thirty pm. I went out the rear door, went down 406 00:20:15,079 --> 00:20:16,880 the street and got some cigarettes, and then I headed 407 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:17,839 back for the print shop. 408 00:20:23,759 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 6: Man, keep your coat on, Joe. Just call the office 409 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:27,319 for a relief. 410 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:28,079 Speaker 4: Why what's doing? 411 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:30,880 Speaker 6: I applied Harris, friend of the Herberts, guy who runs 412 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:32,000 the physical culture school. 413 00:20:32,079 --> 00:20:32,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, what about him? 414 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:34,680 Speaker 6: He called the office one to talk to us. 415 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:36,519 Speaker 8: I phoned him out there at the gym. 416 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:37,319 Speaker 4: Yeah. 417 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:39,359 Speaker 6: He told me he was out drinking last night and 418 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:40,680 he met Missus Herbert at a bar. 419 00:20:40,839 --> 00:20:41,400 Speaker 4: She was alone. 420 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:43,839 Speaker 6: Did tell you where to find her the Greenwood Apartments 421 00:20:44,039 --> 00:20:46,559 six o three. 422 00:20:48,559 --> 00:20:49,680 Speaker 4: When the relief men arrived. 423 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:51,400 Speaker 2: Then and I left and drove across town to the 424 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:54,519 Greenwood Apartments on Taylor Street was a three story frame 425 00:20:54,599 --> 00:20:57,279 buildings set back from the sidewalk, behind the sloping lawn, 426 00:20:57,599 --> 00:20:58,799 lined with a box hedge. 427 00:20:59,279 --> 00:21:02,359 Speaker 4: We checked the name was on the mealboxes. The name TJ. 428 00:21:02,519 --> 00:21:05,680 Speaker 6: Bronson was listed for apartment six o three. We rang, 429 00:21:05,759 --> 00:21:10,640 but there was no answer. To try to manage, you know, yeah, 430 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:13,720 it's a nice place. Insurance racket must be paying. 431 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:13,920 Speaker 4: Off on him. 432 00:21:14,839 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 12: Here we go, Yeah, I help you. 433 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:27,480 Speaker 4: Yes, so you're the manager. 434 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:29,359 Speaker 6: Here, that's right, that's my name. 435 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:30,119 Speaker 12: Can I help you? 436 00:21:30,279 --> 00:21:31,559 Speaker 8: Police officers, mister thatcher. 437 00:21:31,599 --> 00:21:33,559 Speaker 6: We're trying to locate the people in six oh three. 438 00:21:33,759 --> 00:21:36,440 Speaker 15: Oh, that crazy woman tried to blow up the place 439 00:21:36,559 --> 00:21:37,039 last night. 440 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:38,920 Speaker 4: Why what do you mean, missus Bronson? 441 00:21:39,079 --> 00:21:42,119 Speaker 15: She came in drunk about two am, no sense at all. 442 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:45,039 About three am, the folks in six oh one call 443 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:47,880 me and they said the small gas. I went up 444 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:50,359 there and found her in the kitchen at I'd like 445 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:53,839 a light gas stove turned on, going full blass crazy. 446 00:21:54,079 --> 00:21:55,759 Speaker 4: Where's her husband? Couldn't say? 447 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:58,960 Speaker 15: Chasing around again, I think hadn't been home in a week. 448 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:01,279 Lucky I got to that, I guess before sawing a 449 00:22:01,279 --> 00:22:01,839 little match. 450 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:03,680 Speaker 6: You said it happened about three this morning. 451 00:22:03,759 --> 00:22:06,559 Speaker 4: That's right, it's a crazy woman. She'll be all right, though. 452 00:22:06,759 --> 00:22:07,319 Where's she now? 453 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:08,279 Speaker 8: Do you know? Yeah? 454 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:14,519 Speaker 4: County Hospital, four twenty five pm. 455 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:16,079 Speaker 2: Ben and I got in touch with the office and 456 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:18,640 arranged for a stake out at the Herbert's apartment. We 457 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,920 called homicide and checked on the attempts suicide report. They 458 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:23,599 informed us that the woman had been taken to the 459 00:22:23,599 --> 00:22:26,680 Cycle Award County Hospital. We went over to the hospital, 460 00:22:26,839 --> 00:22:29,799 checked at the main desk and identified ourselves. The nurse 461 00:22:29,839 --> 00:22:32,000 on duty had us shown to the ward where the suspect, 462 00:22:32,039 --> 00:22:35,400 Doris Herbert, was confined. She was a half way attractive 463 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,920 woman in her late forties, short, bleached blonde hair, dark 464 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:41,559 eyes with deep circles under them. She turned and looked 465 00:22:41,599 --> 00:22:42,960 up as we stopped beside her bed. 466 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 6: Excuse me you, Doris Herbert's your name, Doris Herbert? 467 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:48,079 Speaker 16: Who you want? 468 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:50,359 Speaker 4: Police officers would like to talk to you for a minute. 469 00:22:50,759 --> 00:22:53,319 Speaker 17: I knew you'd be around. I don't care, ma'am. I'm 470 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:55,400 sick of it. I'm sick of the whole rotten thing. 471 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:56,160 I knew you'd come. 472 00:22:56,279 --> 00:22:58,319 Speaker 4: We just have a few questions, ma'am. It won't take long. 473 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:01,119 Speaker 16: Go ahead, I don't care. Did you find him yet? 474 00:23:01,319 --> 00:23:02,119 Speaker 4: You mean your husband? 475 00:23:02,519 --> 00:23:04,079 Speaker 16: Not my husband, not anymore? 476 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:07,079 Speaker 17: Him and that cheap girl behind my back sneaking around 477 00:23:08,079 --> 00:23:09,359 twenty years would been happy? 478 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:10,440 Speaker 16: And he throws me away. 479 00:23:10,519 --> 00:23:11,240 Speaker 6: Where's your husband? 480 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 8: Now? 481 00:23:11,559 --> 00:23:14,200 Speaker 16: Is with her? I've been with her awake. He doesn't 482 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:16,960 even care. I'm here twenty years ago. 483 00:23:17,039 --> 00:23:17,519 Speaker 6: He cared. 484 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:21,559 Speaker 16: I found him, taught him something. I told him everything. 485 00:23:21,599 --> 00:23:22,440 He knows this. 486 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:24,400 Speaker 4: Girl that your husband's with. Where does she stay to? 487 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:24,599 You know? 488 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:25,160 Speaker 10: Yeah? 489 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:27,880 Speaker 17: An apartment. It's on Franklin, around the corner of Franklin 490 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:28,400 and Laurel. 491 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:31,759 Speaker 16: You were close, weren't you. You knew it was us. 492 00:23:32,039 --> 00:23:33,119 Speaker 8: What's this girl's name? 493 00:23:33,519 --> 00:23:39,200 Speaker 16: Mary Daily? I saw her with him? Tell me something? Yeah, 494 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:41,359 you know it was us, Tom and me the insurance. 495 00:23:41,599 --> 00:23:42,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, we knew it was you. 496 00:23:42,759 --> 00:23:46,319 Speaker 16: I didn't like it wasn't a clean game. Tom's idea. 497 00:23:47,279 --> 00:23:49,519 He made money, but I didn't like it. It wasn't clean. 498 00:23:50,759 --> 00:23:52,640 Speaker 4: All right, missus Herbert, We'll talk to you later. 499 00:23:52,759 --> 00:23:53,599 Speaker 16: Oh not me. 500 00:23:53,759 --> 00:23:56,160 Speaker 17: I'm gonna die I'm gonna die and forget all about it. 501 00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:58,240 Let's be sure and get him, won't you. 502 00:23:58,759 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 16: Tom. I told him everything he knows. Get him. 503 00:24:02,839 --> 00:24:04,440 Speaker 6: You're sure about the adress. 504 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:10,279 Speaker 16: Yeah, I'm sure. Temmy Sonny, Why do you have to 505 00:24:10,319 --> 00:24:12,759 do it to me? Showing me away, lying, taking that 506 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:14,440 cheap girl? Why do you do it to me? 507 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,079 Speaker 4: Well, you ought to have an idea. You taught him 508 00:24:17,079 --> 00:24:21,480 everything he knows. 509 00:24:21,519 --> 00:24:23,720 Speaker 2: Before we left the hospital, we made arrangements to have 510 00:24:23,799 --> 00:24:27,480 Doris Herbert transferred to the prison. Ward five PM, we 511 00:24:27,559 --> 00:24:29,759 drove out to the apartment house at Franklin and Laurel 512 00:24:29,759 --> 00:24:32,200 and checked with a landlady. She told us that Tom 513 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,279 Herbert's girlfriend, Marie Daily, had checked out of her apartment 514 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:36,000 the day before. 515 00:24:36,319 --> 00:24:38,279 Speaker 4: She said the Daily Girl had a middle aged man 516 00:24:38,279 --> 00:24:38,640 with her. 517 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,839 Speaker 2: We showed the landlady Herbert's mugshot and she identified him 518 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:44,880 as that man. She had no forwarding address on her, 519 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:46,839 but she did remember the name of the express truck 520 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:47,839 that called. 521 00:24:47,599 --> 00:24:50,039 Speaker 4: To pick up the Daily Girl's baggage. We checked with 522 00:24:50,079 --> 00:24:52,480 the express company and found that the trunks had been 523 00:24:52,519 --> 00:24:56,200 taken to the Lockheed Air terminal. We started calling the airlines. 524 00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:58,880 Speaker 2: Six thirty pm We finally got a report that a 525 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,680 man answering Tom Herbert's description at book passage for two 526 00:25:02,079 --> 00:25:03,440 on a flight to Mexico City. 527 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:05,720 Speaker 4: The plane was scheduled to leave at eight thirty five. 528 00:25:05,799 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 2: That night, Ben and I drove out to the airport 529 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,880 and went on steakeout eight fifteen pm. 530 00:25:11,039 --> 00:25:15,839 Speaker 4: We waited eight twenty No sign of them. United airlineres 531 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:21,039 mainliners fly at six forty nine from Denver and intermediate cities. 532 00:25:21,799 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 6: They're getting a little late. Huh yeah until twenty four. 533 00:25:24,759 --> 00:25:25,279 Speaker 4: They're cutting it. 534 00:25:25,319 --> 00:25:29,319 Speaker 8: Clothes going in the bar. 535 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:31,279 Speaker 4: Joe take a love. Yeah, that's them. 536 00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:31,680 Speaker 10: Let's go. 537 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,759 Speaker 6: Not hard to spot. What's the matter with a girl? 538 00:25:37,279 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 4: Looks pretty jerky? Hi, come on, reveen Water. 539 00:25:42,079 --> 00:25:42,559 Speaker 8: I'm ready. 540 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:43,319 Speaker 12: How what you want? 541 00:25:44,079 --> 00:25:46,279 Speaker 4: Yeah, haven't got much time. We don't want to miss 542 00:25:46,279 --> 00:25:50,440 that plane. You Tom Herbert? Yes, what is it? Police 543 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:52,759 officers like, talk to you downtown just a minute. This 544 00:25:52,839 --> 00:25:53,920 must be some kind of mistake. 545 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:55,839 Speaker 6: No mistake, Herbert, We talked to your wife. 546 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:57,640 Speaker 4: Let's go where they want. 547 00:25:57,720 --> 00:25:58,720 Speaker 8: Nothing. It's a mistake. 548 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:01,200 Speaker 6: Now, look, officers, I don't know what this is all about, 549 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:02,640 but we have to get a plane the. 550 00:26:02,559 --> 00:26:04,599 Speaker 4: Eight thirty five. I can't go downtown with you. 551 00:26:05,079 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 10: Can we talk it over here. 552 00:26:06,039 --> 00:26:08,680 Speaker 4: I'm sure we can straighten this out. Your wife copped out, Herbert. 553 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:09,519 Now let's make it easy. 554 00:26:09,599 --> 00:26:09,799 Speaker 8: Huh. 555 00:26:09,839 --> 00:26:11,559 Speaker 6: Come on, lady, what's he talking about? 556 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:12,359 Speaker 16: Tom? Or wife? 557 00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:12,920 Speaker 11: What's he mean? 558 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:14,119 Speaker 4: I told you it's a mistake. 559 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:15,079 Speaker 8: Not be reasonable. 560 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:17,559 Speaker 4: Ah, sir. All we want to do is take a trip. 561 00:26:17,559 --> 00:26:20,680 We've been planning on this. New clothes, new luggage. Here's 562 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:21,000 your head. 563 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:22,559 Speaker 6: Of course, outside's a mistake. 564 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:23,279 Speaker 8: You can't do this. 565 00:26:23,319 --> 00:26:25,359 Speaker 4: We planned on it. We've been waiting a long time 566 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,480 for this. Yes or so we Well, let's go. 567 00:26:35,319 --> 00:26:38,440 Speaker 3: The story you have just heard was true, only the 568 00:26:38,519 --> 00:26:40,640 names were changed to protect the innocent. 569 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,039 Speaker 5: On October twenty eighth, trial was held in Superior Court, 570 00:26:44,079 --> 00:26:46,599 Department eighty eight, City and County of Los Angeles, State 571 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:47,319 of California. 572 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:57,960 Speaker 10: In a moment the results of that trial, mister. 573 00:26:57,759 --> 00:27:00,400 Speaker 5: And missus Tom Herbert were tried and convicted on several 574 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,920 counts of grand theft. They are now confined in the 575 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:06,240 state penitentiary for all the term prescribed by law. Grand 576 00:27:06,279 --> 00:27:09,240 theft is punishable by confinement for not less than one 577 00:27:09,559 --> 00:27:17,440 nor more than ten years. You have just heard dragnet 578 00:27:17,599 --> 00:27:21,359 a series of authentic cases from official files. Technical advice 579 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:23,759 comes from the Office of Chief of Police W. H. Parker, 580 00:27:23,799 --> 00:27:25,000 Los Angeles Police. 581 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,799 Speaker 6: David Hardy ENCOUNTERSPY solves an exciting case. 582 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:40,119 Speaker 1: Next on NBC, Welcome Back, a solid Bunco episode with 583 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:43,839 two rackets, and I think you'll find both rackets around 584 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:47,680 in one form or another today. The health insurance scam 585 00:27:47,759 --> 00:27:51,720 is particularly salient. The fear of polio in those days 586 00:27:51,839 --> 00:27:56,839 was huge repairents and essentially they played into that as 587 00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:01,680 an opportunity to relieve that fear false hope, and you'll 588 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:06,640 see the exact same thing in so many scams today. Also, 589 00:28:06,839 --> 00:28:10,759 this series continues to capture so many elements of life 590 00:28:10,799 --> 00:28:14,640 in the nineteen fifties due to realism, such as the 591 00:28:14,759 --> 00:28:19,799 sound of an exercise class, which is definitely a little 592 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:24,119 less sensitive than today. I can't imagine calling someone out 593 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,720 by name and telling them they're doing something wrong in 594 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:31,359 front of the fall class. It'd be more like, you know, 595 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:34,000 coming over subtly and saying, you know, this is what 596 00:28:34,039 --> 00:28:37,720 you want to do, but not in that day, and 597 00:28:37,759 --> 00:28:41,000 then of course you had the airport. Compare that to 598 00:28:41,039 --> 00:28:44,400 the somewhat half hearted attempt at creating the sound of 599 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:49,119 an airport from mister Chameleon we heard a few months back. Well, 600 00:28:49,279 --> 00:28:51,960 now we turn to listener comments and feedback, and we 601 00:28:52,079 --> 00:28:58,240 start with this letter from Ron and Nancy and they write, 602 00:28:58,599 --> 00:29:02,759 thanks Adam, keep these coming. Our daughter is an author, 603 00:29:02,839 --> 00:29:05,880 so we understand and appreciate the time and effort you 604 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,119 put in on research. Well, thank you so much. And 605 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:12,640 then we have a comment from YouTube regarding the big 606 00:29:12,799 --> 00:29:17,079 cast and a listener writes, there, I love the episodes 607 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:21,200 with small cast like this one very intense. I definitely 608 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,200 agree on that. And then I also have an email 609 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:29,559 on the same episode. Caleb writes, my deepest contolances to 610 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,960 you and your family, especially your wife on the passing 611 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,359 of your father in law. I will say a prayer 612 00:29:35,359 --> 00:29:38,279 for all of you. Well, thank you so much. I 613 00:29:38,319 --> 00:29:41,599 really do appreciate that, Caleb, and again all the kind 614 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:44,880 words we've received, and he goes on to write I 615 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,920 was listening to the Dragonet episode with the serial killer 616 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:51,359 and it was superb. I kept waiting for Friday Romero 617 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:54,960 to conclude that the suspect was actually just making a 618 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:58,319 false confession of some sort and was floored when it 619 00:29:58,359 --> 00:30:01,480 turned out he was just so non about murdering so 620 00:30:01,559 --> 00:30:04,680 many people. I really enjoyed the format of this episode 621 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,559 where the crime has been solved and it was really 622 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:11,519 just the interrogation and hearing from the suspect. Given the 623 00:30:11,599 --> 00:30:15,079 fact that this suspect was convicted and executed for committee 624 00:30:15,119 --> 00:30:18,200 multiple murders, I wasn't sure if this would be the 625 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:20,960 type of case where it would be easier or feasible 626 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:23,759 to link the episode to the real life crime. I 627 00:30:23,839 --> 00:30:26,680 know there wasn't court TV, the Internet or true crime 628 00:30:26,759 --> 00:30:30,279 podcast when these episodes aired, but I'm guessing that for 629 00:30:30,359 --> 00:30:34,640 the really serious crimes, it would be able to figure 630 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:38,319 out the actual case upon which this was based. By comparison, 631 00:30:38,839 --> 00:30:42,119 when the Dragonet episode is about a series of burglaries 632 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:46,640 or something similar, I'm assuming such a task would be impossible. Again, 633 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:48,880 my condolence is on your loss and thank you for 634 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,079 all of the fantastic work that you do. From Caleb 635 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:55,559 and Pennsylvania, well thanks so much. Once again, Caleb and 636 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:59,359 I did look into this. I couldn't find anything and 637 00:30:59,559 --> 00:31:02,559 I and as I was thinking about it, I think 638 00:31:02,599 --> 00:31:07,200 I know why, and watching the TV episode makes it clear. 639 00:31:07,279 --> 00:31:10,039 At the end, they said he was convicted of murdering 640 00:31:10,039 --> 00:31:13,440 the first degree. They did not say how many counts 641 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:17,799 he was convicted of, and I suspect that, based on 642 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:22,519 what we heard and saw in the episode, that Ross 643 00:31:22,559 --> 00:31:25,839 was only convicted of one count, And in many ways, 644 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:30,519 it comes down to something that was discussed a few 645 00:31:30,599 --> 00:31:35,960 months back regarding that concept of corpus delectime, which is 646 00:31:36,119 --> 00:31:40,559 often misused, as you know, kind of a throwaway joke line, 647 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:46,319 almost with the assumption that the lack of a body 648 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:51,759 somehow prevents a murder charge. When corpus delecti isn't about 649 00:31:51,799 --> 00:31:55,079 the body of the victim. It's about the body of 650 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:59,240 the crime. In essence, when we get to the point 651 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:04,359 of asking is their corpus delecti, we're asking is there 652 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:08,960 evidence that a crime actually happened with that last killing? 653 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:14,000 Even before Friday and Romero confronted him, that element was 654 00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:18,200 pretty well established. There was evidence that a crime had happened, 655 00:32:18,279 --> 00:32:24,319 because you had the paperwork on the sale of the car, 656 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:30,880 which was in Ross's handwriting, with him having forged the 657 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:36,039 dead man's signature. That right there proved Ross guilty of 658 00:32:37,039 --> 00:32:43,279 theft and forgery and was indictivecative of other things. But then, 659 00:32:43,319 --> 00:32:46,440 of course you then had the letter to the wife, 660 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:50,960 which is very hard to explain away because the letter 661 00:32:51,279 --> 00:32:55,799 indicated that ross knew a bit about her husband's affairs 662 00:32:56,079 --> 00:33:00,599 enough to try to attempt to write to her, and 663 00:33:00,839 --> 00:33:05,359 it also indicated that ross knew that her husband would 664 00:33:05,359 --> 00:33:08,839 be unable to write to her. I mean, honestly, on 665 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:12,559 what they had collected, he could have been taken to 666 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,759 trial and probably would have been convicted ninety percent chance. 667 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:19,279 But they did want the location of the body, which 668 00:33:19,799 --> 00:33:24,000 confirmed Ross's story of how he killed him. But what 669 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:28,319 about the other cases? Is there a corpus DELECTI a 670 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:32,279 body of a crime? No? Not really. Now, in his 671 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:36,359 confession he named one other victim. In real life, he 672 00:33:36,519 --> 00:33:40,359 might have named more. But does the fact that some 673 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:46,240 men went missing and Boss admitted to killing them in 674 00:33:46,359 --> 00:33:50,559 that you've got evidence that there's a crime. No, not really. 675 00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:57,759 Men disappear for whatever reason all the time, and there 676 00:33:57,799 --> 00:34:03,359 are many hazards, both man made and otherwise, along the 677 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:07,319 highways of California, as well as some men who just 678 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:12,800 decide they want to disappear. And that someone confesses to 679 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:18,400 having killed someone doesn't itself prove a crime, because there 680 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:21,679 are many people who will say I killed someone and 681 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:26,280 in many cases they didn't. In fact, in some cases 682 00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:29,960 of missing persons, people have kept stepped forward to say 683 00:34:30,039 --> 00:34:33,360 I killed this person, and then the person turns up. Now, 684 00:34:33,519 --> 00:34:38,320 certainly Ross could have provided details on at least some 685 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:42,519 of the cases where the police could find evidence of 686 00:34:42,519 --> 00:34:46,440 his crime, but why would he? And in some cases 687 00:34:46,639 --> 00:34:51,159 he might have totally forgotten details, given how many he'd 688 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:56,599 done and how calmon place and calmly he viewed the crime, 689 00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:00,239 except for those that stood out in his memory. And 690 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:04,960 I think that I believe that he did kill a 691 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:08,599 lot of people from a point of view of having 692 00:35:09,079 --> 00:35:14,880 watched the performances. And certainly cases at this point that 693 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:21,119 came into dragnet were ones where police officers shared a 694 00:35:21,199 --> 00:35:26,480 case that they thought would be worth dragnet covering. And 695 00:35:26,559 --> 00:35:30,280 certainly you can imagine that the police officer who's admitted 696 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:35,760 this believe that this person really did commit these murders. 697 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:40,599 And it certainly matches with a lot of the very cold, 698 00:35:41,039 --> 00:35:45,000 nonchalant talk we've heard from some serial killers and goes 699 00:35:45,039 --> 00:35:49,719 against the sort of media stereotype of the somewhat maniacal 700 00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:55,079 character who is a serial killer. But actual evidence for 701 00:35:55,119 --> 00:35:58,480 the rest of the crimes just didn't exist, and the prosecutor, 702 00:35:58,519 --> 00:36:01,800 truth be told, didn't need you can only execute a 703 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,960 man once, and we don't know when this was, and 704 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,960 there may even have been a mandatory death penalty, and 705 00:36:08,199 --> 00:36:11,920 you actually I was looking at the pages for US 706 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:16,920 serial killers, the Wikipedia entry on it, and there are 707 00:36:17,079 --> 00:36:22,079 multiple serial killers who have a number of killings that 708 00:36:22,159 --> 00:36:26,440 they committed and are known, but there are also a 709 00:36:26,559 --> 00:36:30,519 lot that are unconfirmed. So this isn't uncommon. And this 710 00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:35,320 was of course in the age before there came to 711 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:40,480 be this big focus on a true crime, although certainly 712 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:46,320 there was interest and sensational cases, and an enterprising reporter 713 00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:51,199 might have gotten an article in the fourth or fifth 714 00:36:51,199 --> 00:36:56,000 page of the newspaper about it based on the confession 715 00:36:56,079 --> 00:37:00,960 of multiple killings, if that was something that the prosecutor 716 00:37:01,199 --> 00:37:04,360 discussed or highlighted at all. But in terms of what 717 00:37:04,559 --> 00:37:07,559 went to trial and what he was charged with, it 718 00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:11,480 was a case of one guy killing another guy on 719 00:37:11,599 --> 00:37:14,880 the highway over a small amount of money. This is 720 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:18,280 a case where I could imagine it being covered, and 721 00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:23,119 there might be some article somebody finds from that era, 722 00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:26,639 which really could probably be any time between the nineteen 723 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:28,880 twenties and the nineteen fifties. 724 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:30,079 Speaker 8: But if it. 725 00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:34,679 Speaker 1: Wasn't properly researched, it definitely seems like something that could 726 00:37:34,679 --> 00:37:38,280 also have been overlooked, particularly depending on what else might 727 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:40,239 have been going on in the news. But thanks so 728 00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:43,119 much for the question. Now it's time to thank our 729 00:37:43,159 --> 00:37:44,840 Patreon supporter of the day, and I want to go 730 00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:46,639 ahead and thank Gary. Gary has been one of our 731 00:37:46,679 --> 00:37:51,039 Patreon supporters since August twenty sixteen, currently supporting the podcast 732 00:37:51,079 --> 00:37:53,719 at the Shawmus level of four dollars or more per month. 733 00:37:54,159 --> 00:37:56,960 Thanks so much for your support, Gary, and that'll actually 734 00:37:57,039 --> 00:37:59,840 do it for today. If you're enjoying the podcast, please 735 00:38:00,039 --> 00:38:04,000 all of us using your favorite podcast software and be 736 00:38:04,079 --> 00:38:06,639 sure to rate and review the podcast wherever you download 737 00:38:06,679 --> 00:38:10,159 it from. We'll be back next Saturday with another episode 738 00:38:10,159 --> 00:38:14,519 of Dragnet, but join us back here on Monday for 739 00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:16,840 the Adventures of the Folk and Where. 740 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:18,159 Speaker 10: Hello Brooks. 741 00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:20,679 Speaker 18: My name is Mike Wearing. I wonder if you could 742 00:38:20,679 --> 00:38:22,400 spare me a few minutes. I'm sorry, I got no 743 00:38:22,519 --> 00:38:25,880 I'm playing dots. This won't take much time. Hey bartender, 744 00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:27,159 we have a couple of pints. 745 00:38:27,159 --> 00:38:28,880 Speaker 5: Here I go. 746 00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:31,800 Speaker 18: You want to sit at this table in all right? 747 00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:35,639 You've got your blooming I hear, take a look at 748 00:38:35,639 --> 00:38:39,639 my credentials. You ain't a blooming copper. No, not exactly, 749 00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:42,440 but Colonel Logan suggested I talk to you. 750 00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:43,360 Speaker 10: Well, I do nothing. 751 00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:45,559 Speaker 6: If somebody's pinched something, well, it wasn't me. 752 00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:46,679 Speaker 5: I'm sure it wasn't. 753 00:38:47,679 --> 00:38:49,639 Speaker 18: I was just wondering if you ever saw anyone in 754 00:38:49,639 --> 00:38:51,320 the Colonel's office after hours? 755 00:38:51,639 --> 00:38:53,719 Speaker 4: Oh, like, oh. 756 00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,480 Speaker 18: For example, like any of the men or missus Draper, 757 00:38:56,519 --> 00:38:58,400 the Colonel secretary, and I mean. 758 00:38:59,159 --> 00:39:00,280 Speaker 10: The spies work. 759 00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:03,079 Speaker 18: What makes you ask that I go to cinema as 760 00:39:03,079 --> 00:39:04,159 see now those hello's work. 761 00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:07,079 Speaker 6: If I thought there was someynky panky going on there is, 762 00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:10,000 what do you know? 763 00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:12,119 Speaker 10: My question is what do you know? 764 00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:14,440 Speaker 1: I hope you'll be with us then in the meantime, 765 00:39:14,599 --> 00:39:19,159 send your comments to Box thirteen at Great Detectives dot net, 766 00:39:19,519 --> 00:39:22,559 follow us on Twitter at Radio Detectives, and check us 767 00:39:22,599 --> 00:39:28,760 out on Instagram, Instagram, dot com, slash Great Detectives From Boise, Idaho. 768 00:39:29,079 --> 00:39:31,760 This is your host, Adam Graham signing off.