WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.040 --> 00:00:08.160 All right, joining us now. 2 00:00:08.240 --> 00:00:11.119 We're honored to have a pastor Chuck Baldwin of Liberty 3 00:00:11.160 --> 00:00:15.599 Fellowship in Montana. You can find the website at Libertyfellowship, 4 00:00:15.880 --> 00:00:21.519 mt from Montana dot com. Also Chuck Baldwin Live dot com. 5 00:00:21.519 --> 00:00:22.440 Thank you for joining us. 6 00:00:22.480 --> 00:00:26.199 Sir David's quickly with you. Thank you. 7 00:00:26.640 --> 00:00:29.199 It's been a long time since we've talked. Because of 8 00:00:29.440 --> 00:00:33.000 timing and scheduling and things like that, you're only able 9 00:00:33.079 --> 00:00:36.479 to do interviews in the afternoon. I wasn't able to 10 00:00:36.520 --> 00:00:38.000 do that at Info Wars. 11 00:00:37.719 --> 00:00:38.799 But we're able to do that here. 12 00:00:38.880 --> 00:00:41.359 So I want to get you back on with what 13 00:00:41.520 --> 00:00:44.560 is happening now. You've got a book that you're selling 14 00:00:44.679 --> 00:00:47.679 at your website. We'll get into that a little bit. 15 00:00:47.719 --> 00:00:50.840 But last time I interviewed you, we talked about another 16 00:00:50.880 --> 00:00:53.759 book that you and your son had done, Romans thirteen, 17 00:00:54.439 --> 00:01:00.799 and it seems like people did not understand Romans thirteen 18 00:01:00.960 --> 00:01:02.640 or I don't think that we would have gone through 19 00:01:03.079 --> 00:01:06.319 what we went through in twenty twenty with lockdown churches 20 00:01:06.359 --> 00:01:09.359 and all the rest of stuff. I remember when we talked, 21 00:01:10.239 --> 00:01:12.799 you know, the standard line was you do whatever the 22 00:01:12.840 --> 00:01:17.319 government says unless they start infringing on your religious freedom 23 00:01:17.680 --> 00:01:21.439 and said the time, I don't believe that they're going 24 00:01:21.480 --> 00:01:24.840 to stand up for their religious freedom if they take 25 00:01:24.920 --> 00:01:28.640 that tact. And of course we saw when the lockdown 26 00:01:28.680 --> 00:01:31.959 happened under Trump that they didn't tell us a little 27 00:01:31.959 --> 00:01:34.120 bit about your opinion about what happened with that and 28 00:01:34.200 --> 00:01:35.040 the aftermath of it. 29 00:01:37.920 --> 00:01:44.920 Well, I think what we saw was exactly the open 30 00:01:45.640 --> 00:01:50.040 demonstration of what you and I had discussed. Yeah, that 31 00:01:50.319 --> 00:01:53.799 is that the Walton took the case of Romans thirteen, 32 00:01:53.840 --> 00:01:56.239 and you alluded to the book that my attorney's son 33 00:01:56.280 --> 00:01:59.599 and I wrote, Romans thirteen is true meaning of submission, 34 00:02:00.439 --> 00:02:03.239 And we took all of the verses in well not all, 35 00:02:03.359 --> 00:02:06.359 but the vast majority of the verses in both Testaments 36 00:02:06.359 --> 00:02:11.120 Old and Knew to show that nowhere does God command 37 00:02:11.240 --> 00:02:16.919 his people to submit to evil authority, and that doctrine 38 00:02:17.280 --> 00:02:22.280 of submission to civil authority, per the first couple of 39 00:02:22.400 --> 00:02:30.039 verses of Roman Stepter thirteen, has made sheepy servants of 40 00:02:30.080 --> 00:02:34.199 the state out of what should have been and once 41 00:02:34.280 --> 00:02:38.960 were courageous, bold men of God, unafraid to speak truth 42 00:02:39.000 --> 00:02:44.439 to power and to resist the attempts of those in authority. 43 00:02:44.599 --> 00:02:49.120 To make slaves out of God's people. We are servants 44 00:02:49.120 --> 00:02:53.680 to only one and that's Jesus Christ. So I think 45 00:02:53.719 --> 00:02:58.879 that the doctrine, the false doctrine of Romans thirteen, as 46 00:02:58.879 --> 00:03:01.599 it has been taught the not a part of the 47 00:03:01.639 --> 00:03:06.159 twentieth century and in the twenty first century, has produced 48 00:03:06.719 --> 00:03:11.520 exactly everything that we saw a demonstrated during the Covid tyranny. 49 00:03:11.879 --> 00:03:14.680 And I think the evidence of that still continues today. 50 00:03:15.400 --> 00:03:18.319 But you know, before, you know, it was always about 51 00:03:18.439 --> 00:03:22.000 something that they consider to be non biblical. You know, 52 00:03:22.400 --> 00:03:25.879 if you are talking about abortion, if you are talking 53 00:03:25.919 --> 00:03:31.000 about the intrusion of our Fourth Amendment liberties and invasion 54 00:03:31.039 --> 00:03:34.680 of our privacy and the Second Amendment and all of 55 00:03:34.719 --> 00:03:39.840 these these issues constitutional issues, these Romans thirteen preachers in 56 00:03:39.960 --> 00:03:42.879 Christians would say, well, you know, God's called me to 57 00:03:42.919 --> 00:03:44.960 preach the Gospel, and I'm not going to preach that. 58 00:03:45.159 --> 00:03:47.599 I'm not going to get involved in all these quote 59 00:03:47.639 --> 00:03:50.800 unquote political things. And when you know, when they tell 60 00:03:50.840 --> 00:03:53.599 me I can't preach the Gospel, then then I'll show 61 00:03:53.800 --> 00:03:56.639 you know, some resistance. And they would they would pu 62 00:03:56.680 --> 00:04:01.960 who any attempt to stand for basic fundamental God given 63 00:04:02.039 --> 00:04:06.520 liberties and they use Must thirteen as a cop out. Well, 64 00:04:06.599 --> 00:04:12.000 then COVID came along and guess what they said. You 65 00:04:12.479 --> 00:04:17.519 can't meet in your church services, you can't preach, you 66 00:04:17.560 --> 00:04:26.319 can't assemble, you can't observe your Resurrection Day services, observe 67 00:04:26.560 --> 00:04:30.600 the birth of Christ. I mean all these are now, 68 00:04:30.680 --> 00:04:36.079 these are not constitutional issues. These are you know, basic 69 00:04:36.439 --> 00:04:43.399 fundamental biblical issues. And pastors just rolled over shut the churches, 70 00:04:43.800 --> 00:04:47.079 didn't have have, you know, their meetings, They shut down 71 00:04:47.120 --> 00:04:54.319 their operations entirely, and they proved that they are truly 72 00:04:55.839 --> 00:04:58.680 nothing more than slaves of the state. So I think 73 00:04:58.720 --> 00:05:01.480 that was a great wake up call to the condition 74 00:05:01.639 --> 00:05:02.240 of the church. 75 00:05:02.600 --> 00:05:05.160 I agree, and a big part of that is that 76 00:05:05.199 --> 00:05:07.759 they want to at all costs avoid any kind of 77 00:05:07.759 --> 00:05:09.079 political controversy. 78 00:05:09.800 --> 00:05:10.519 You don't do that. 79 00:05:10.600 --> 00:05:13.600 And I appreciate that you speak to what people are 80 00:05:13.600 --> 00:05:16.480 living in their daily life and you say, this is 81 00:05:16.519 --> 00:05:19.680 how we think the biblical principles apply here. And I 82 00:05:19.720 --> 00:05:21.839 think that is something that sadly missing in most of 83 00:05:21.879 --> 00:05:24.240 the church. And we had a lot of people. There 84 00:05:24.240 --> 00:05:27.800 were a few churches that never closed, and I interviewed 85 00:05:27.839 --> 00:05:31.160 some of those pastors. There were some churches that closed 86 00:05:31.160 --> 00:05:35.040 for a while then just kind of came to their 87 00:05:35.079 --> 00:05:38.519 senses or whatever and reopened up, and some of them 88 00:05:39.240 --> 00:05:41.639 talked about the fact that they got it wrong, that 89 00:05:41.639 --> 00:05:43.879 they interpreted that wrong, and they would never do it again. 90 00:05:44.360 --> 00:05:46.399 But there were some very big churches that did not 91 00:05:46.879 --> 00:05:49.639 go back, even though they opened up, and even though 92 00:05:49.639 --> 00:05:52.680 they had fights, they never went back and corrected their 93 00:05:52.720 --> 00:05:56.959 commentaries or their statements on their website or what they 94 00:05:56.959 --> 00:06:02.040 told people about Romans thirteen. And I think that's very important. Yeah, 95 00:06:02.160 --> 00:06:04.639 I mean, we can all make mistakes. We can all 96 00:06:04.639 --> 00:06:06.920 make mistakes, but we need to be public about it. 97 00:06:07.160 --> 00:06:09.160 The way I look at it, a lot of people 98 00:06:09.199 --> 00:06:11.079 who shut down for four or five months and then 99 00:06:11.120 --> 00:06:13.199 opened up and then got into big fights with the 100 00:06:13.199 --> 00:06:16.560 government over it, they just kind of ignored what had 101 00:06:16.560 --> 00:06:18.680 happened those first four or five months. 102 00:06:19.120 --> 00:06:19.959 I think that's kind. 103 00:06:19.800 --> 00:06:22.439 Of like a pastor who's been caught an adulterous affair 104 00:06:22.560 --> 00:06:24.160 just kind of say, well, let's forget about that, will 105 00:06:24.160 --> 00:06:24.480 move on. 106 00:06:26.000 --> 00:06:30.319 You know. Yeah, it's hard for I don't know why, 107 00:06:30.360 --> 00:06:35.079 but it's we've reached a point in our in our 108 00:06:35.319 --> 00:06:40.279 history were I don't know, somehow it's a sign of 109 00:06:40.360 --> 00:06:44.879 weakness or something if you acknowledge that you were wrong 110 00:06:45.040 --> 00:06:48.079 and what you taught from the pulpit. I mean, I've 111 00:06:48.079 --> 00:06:52.199 reme into this with the designers issue and big, big time. 112 00:06:52.560 --> 00:06:55.680 That's you know. But you know, for example, there was 113 00:06:57.199 --> 00:07:01.839 John MacArthur who recently passed away, a pastor of a 114 00:07:01.920 --> 00:07:07.240 large church in southern California, well known writer and broadcaster. 115 00:07:09.279 --> 00:07:16.000 He was a man that four decades throughout his career, 116 00:07:17.199 --> 00:07:24.160 he would impune pastors around the country who would resist 117 00:07:24.519 --> 00:07:30.040 governmental usurpation of their power to intrude upon the freedom 118 00:07:30.079 --> 00:07:33.399 of speech and the freedom of religion, and go forth 119 00:07:34.040 --> 00:07:39.519 on even the freedom of assembly in certain cases, and 120 00:07:38.759 --> 00:07:44.319 he would castigate them as being disobedient to Romans thirteen. 121 00:07:44.439 --> 00:07:50.199 And he was one of the most foremost advocates of 122 00:07:50.639 --> 00:07:55.000 the false doctumne of Romans thirteen in the country, and 123 00:07:55.079 --> 00:07:59.759 because of his influence, he impacted a lot of fellow pastors. 124 00:08:00.879 --> 00:08:06.240 Then when COVID hit and his church was hit personally 125 00:08:06.279 --> 00:08:10.639 there in California, you know how California was about everything, 126 00:08:12.480 --> 00:08:19.160 and so he actually reversed his position on that issue, 127 00:08:19.199 --> 00:08:22.480 and he challenged the authority of the state of California 128 00:08:22.600 --> 00:08:26.160 to close his church, and so forth, and he actually 129 00:08:26.199 --> 00:08:28.759 was willing to go to court to fight it. So 130 00:08:29.040 --> 00:08:32.600 I admire him for doing that. But Bill, to your point, 131 00:08:32.679 --> 00:08:38.399 he never one time during all that period of contest 132 00:08:38.480 --> 00:08:41.559 between him and the State of California, he never one 133 00:08:41.679 --> 00:08:45.879 time public had got up and said, you know, I 134 00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:48.440 was wrong in the past. You know, all these other 135 00:08:48.519 --> 00:08:52.039 issues that men of God, you know, we're fighting a 136 00:08:52.039 --> 00:08:55.039 long time before I fought this issue. You know, they 137 00:08:55.039 --> 00:08:57.720 were fighting issues of freedom and faith for a long time, 138 00:08:57.759 --> 00:08:59.919 and some of them were paying a very heavy price, 139 00:09:00.919 --> 00:09:04.639 were resisting, and he never took their side. He always 140 00:09:04.679 --> 00:09:08.080 condemned them for violating when I was thirteen. Now he's 141 00:09:08.159 --> 00:09:12.679 doing the same thing, and he's resisting the you know 142 00:09:12.879 --> 00:09:13.600 the I. 143 00:09:13.559 --> 00:09:14.600 Remember when that happened. 144 00:09:15.480 --> 00:09:19.039 He shut down from what was at March till about 145 00:09:19.039 --> 00:09:21.440 in July or whatever, and then they opened up. I 146 00:09:21.480 --> 00:09:24.679 think really the final straw when they said all right, 147 00:09:24.720 --> 00:09:26.600 all right, you can get together, but you can't sing. 148 00:09:26.720 --> 00:09:30.919 It's like, okay, we're done with this nonsense. But like 149 00:09:30.960 --> 00:09:33.639 you said, he didn't go back and change his commentaries 150 00:09:33.720 --> 00:09:37.679 or anything. And a year later you had Todd Friel, 151 00:09:37.799 --> 00:09:40.480 who was also fairly well known on YouTube and other 152 00:09:40.559 --> 00:09:46.039 places and very connected to MacArthur. As they were getting 153 00:09:46.080 --> 00:09:49.679 ready to roll out the vaccine mandates in September, he 154 00:09:49.799 --> 00:09:54.200 said in August again, you know the Romans thirteen line, 155 00:09:54.279 --> 00:09:56.879 and he said, and look, John MacArthur says this, this 156 00:09:56.919 --> 00:09:59.840 is this, And I played the clip and I said, yeah, 157 00:09:59.879 --> 00:10:01.720 but that's not what John McArthur has been doing for 158 00:10:01.759 --> 00:10:03.519 the last year. Maybe you need to take a look 159 00:10:03.559 --> 00:10:06.600 at the difference between what he said in his former 160 00:10:06.679 --> 00:10:09.960 commentaries and what he's actually doing today. And I thought 161 00:10:09.960 --> 00:10:13.279 that was what cod Friel said. I call him pinwheel 162 00:10:13.440 --> 00:10:16.720 freel because he said, if government tells you wear pinwheels 163 00:10:16.720 --> 00:10:19.840 on your head, you wear pinwheels on your head. It's like, yeah, 164 00:10:19.919 --> 00:10:23.440 but you don't have to become a pincushion for a 165 00:10:23.879 --> 00:10:25.559 poisonous kool aid injection. 166 00:10:26.440 --> 00:10:28.759 That's the insanity of all this stuff. 167 00:10:28.799 --> 00:10:31.799 But yeah, I think when I look at it, let 168 00:10:31.799 --> 00:10:34.320 me get your take on this, I look at it 169 00:10:34.360 --> 00:10:39.360 as from in a political sphere. When they become when 170 00:10:39.399 --> 00:10:43.080 they're installed in their office, government employees swear to pull 171 00:10:43.159 --> 00:10:47.240 the Constitution and so their authority comes from the Constitution 172 00:10:47.840 --> 00:10:51.879 and it comes from their fealty to it. And if 173 00:10:51.919 --> 00:10:54.720 they are in rebellion to the Constitution, they don't have 174 00:10:54.759 --> 00:10:58.360 any authority. And I see Romas thirteen in the same 175 00:10:58.399 --> 00:11:02.440 way that you know Romas thirteen. He talks about authority 176 00:11:02.480 --> 00:11:05.240 coming from God. He's established these governments. Well, how do 177 00:11:05.240 --> 00:11:07.519 we know if it's a legitimate government. Well, we can 178 00:11:07.559 --> 00:11:09.879 take a look at what they're doing. And if what 179 00:11:09.919 --> 00:11:14.200 they're doing is in a rebellion to God, then they 180 00:11:14.200 --> 00:11:16.440 don't have authority. It's just like if they were rebelling 181 00:11:16.440 --> 00:11:17.360 against the Constitution. 182 00:11:17.440 --> 00:11:21.799 What do you think I think I mean? 183 00:11:21.799 --> 00:11:25.000 In our book, we make that, we make that very 184 00:11:25.039 --> 00:11:30.519 clear that Romans thirteen was not giving a blank check 185 00:11:30.879 --> 00:11:37.600 to civil authority to run roughshod over the God given 186 00:11:38.720 --> 00:11:43.879 liberties of the people. In fact, that that same passage 187 00:11:43.919 --> 00:11:48.399 in Romans chapter thirteen that talks in the early verses 188 00:11:48.440 --> 00:11:55.279 about submitted to the higher power. And you keep reading 189 00:11:55.519 --> 00:12:00.600 and they always stop at verse two, but reading it 190 00:12:00.639 --> 00:12:05.320 like for example of verse three, for rulers. Civil rulers 191 00:12:05.399 --> 00:12:09.480 are not a terror to good works, but to evil. 192 00:12:10.039 --> 00:12:10.679 That's right. 193 00:12:10.879 --> 00:12:13.399 Well, so then be afraid the power do that which 194 00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:15.799 is good. That's out praise are the same for he 195 00:12:15.960 --> 00:12:18.279 is the verse verse four, he is the minister of 196 00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:23.519 God to be for good. So at the same time 197 00:12:23.639 --> 00:12:29.120 that Roman's thirteen tells us to admit to government, it's 198 00:12:29.159 --> 00:12:34.080 telling government that government has the responsibility to be good, righteous, 199 00:12:34.080 --> 00:12:39.799 and just in their implementation of law. And if they 200 00:12:39.840 --> 00:12:43.240 are not good, righteous and just in their implication of law, 201 00:12:44.000 --> 00:12:49.159 there is no implication in the duty of the Christian 202 00:12:49.279 --> 00:12:53.480 to submit to that evil. I mean, so that's like saying, Okay, 203 00:12:54.360 --> 00:12:57.000 you know, if the government commands you to do such 204 00:12:57.000 --> 00:13:02.720 and such, which is obviously evil, unjust, immoral, et cetera, 205 00:13:03.960 --> 00:13:07.960 you have no moral authority to submit to that. In fact, 206 00:13:08.039 --> 00:13:09.799 you have a moral authority to resist that. 207 00:13:10.279 --> 00:13:10.720 I agree. 208 00:13:10.759 --> 00:13:13.519 Well, that's a part of the entire passage. So yes, 209 00:13:14.120 --> 00:13:17.080 it's a twofold. You know, it's a responsibility on government 210 00:13:17.840 --> 00:13:22.279 to be good and righteous adjust and when government is good, 211 00:13:22.360 --> 00:13:26.480 righteous and just, and you should have the support of 212 00:13:26.600 --> 00:13:30.600 the people. But when government is not good, righteous and just, 213 00:13:31.360 --> 00:13:34.120 it should not have supported the people. So that is 214 00:13:34.240 --> 00:13:38.039 clearly defined in Roman Scepter thirteen as well, because I 215 00:13:38.159 --> 00:13:40.919 just choose to skip over those verses. 216 00:13:41.039 --> 00:13:45.879 Yes, yes, I absolutely agree. Well, we're talking about civil government. 217 00:13:45.960 --> 00:13:50.720 We just had the eightieth anniversary of Hiroshima. I'm curious 218 00:13:50.720 --> 00:13:53.000 to get your take on this and if you think 219 00:13:53.039 --> 00:13:56.919 that fits in and what I look we talk about 220 00:13:56.919 --> 00:14:00.320 frequently is a just war theory, which was something that's 221 00:14:00.320 --> 00:14:04.960 been put out by many Christians trying to restrain the 222 00:14:05.039 --> 00:14:08.600 evil of war as much as possible, and trying to 223 00:14:08.639 --> 00:14:12.879 restrain the way that it's conducted and the conditions under 224 00:14:12.879 --> 00:14:13.879 which it has fought. 225 00:14:14.639 --> 00:14:16.720 How do you view Hiroshima. 226 00:14:18.799 --> 00:14:22.559 All. I think it was one of the greatest greatest 227 00:14:22.600 --> 00:14:26.519 tragedies in US history. I think it's it is an 228 00:14:26.919 --> 00:14:31.759 everlasting blight on the reputation of a nation that was 229 00:14:31.799 --> 00:14:35.720 supposed to be the city on the hill, the nation 230 00:14:36.039 --> 00:14:41.559 that at the standard of good government, honesty in government, 231 00:14:42.320 --> 00:14:49.679 righteousness and government, a protector of humanity, a protector of life, 232 00:14:49.759 --> 00:14:55.399 a protector of freedom, all everything that America was stolid on, 233 00:14:56.320 --> 00:15:01.799 you know, the goodness of government and the righteousness and 234 00:15:01.840 --> 00:15:05.639 the accountability of government to we the people. And they 235 00:15:05.639 --> 00:15:10.000 were straight on government by the constitution and the rule 236 00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:14.600 of law over the will of man, and all these 237 00:15:14.639 --> 00:15:20.600 principles upon which America was founded. When we dropped those 238 00:15:20.600 --> 00:15:26.000 bombs on Nagasaki and Niroshima, atomic bombs by the way 239 00:15:26.039 --> 00:15:28.279 we're the only nation in the history of the world 240 00:15:28.279 --> 00:15:33.879 that was ever used in the Yes, what a reputation. 241 00:15:33.720 --> 00:15:35.919 And on a civilian target as well, And that's the 242 00:15:36.000 --> 00:15:40.000 key thing, isn't it the civilians and they're not a 243 00:15:40.039 --> 00:15:41.000 civilian target? 244 00:15:41.039 --> 00:15:43.159 And I think that's the key thing. Isn't it the. 245 00:15:43.120 --> 00:15:45.559 Fact that and that was that was really kind of 246 00:15:45.600 --> 00:15:47.759 a hallmark, a turning point, I think in World War 247 00:15:47.840 --> 00:15:52.000 Two of attacking civilians and both sides did it. There 248 00:15:52.039 --> 00:15:54.639 was a bombing of London, then they retaliated with Dresden 249 00:15:54.720 --> 00:15:58.720 and Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and it's really heinous. It's something 250 00:15:59.080 --> 00:16:03.039 that I think Western civilization kind of went straight down 251 00:16:03.080 --> 00:16:03.840 the tubes with that. 252 00:16:03.960 --> 00:16:05.320 We haven't recovered since then. 253 00:16:07.039 --> 00:16:09.200 No, In fact, I think we're still seeing it being 254 00:16:09.240 --> 00:16:11.399 played out today in the genocide. 255 00:16:10.879 --> 00:16:12.399 And gossp Yes, exactly. 256 00:16:12.639 --> 00:16:16.639 And the way that the American government is supporting the 257 00:16:16.799 --> 00:16:20.720 want and slaughter, genocide, identic cleansing, all of the above 258 00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:26.159 committed by Israel with America's total support. We're supplying the weapons, 259 00:16:26.200 --> 00:16:31.080 the bombs, the missiles, the munitions, with the intelligence you know, 260 00:16:31.440 --> 00:16:36.639 CIA and Masada working hand in hand to implement all 261 00:16:36.799 --> 00:16:40.960 this all this atrocity, and you know, all that I 262 00:16:41.000 --> 00:16:43.519 think is just a continuation of what happened at the 263 00:16:43.600 --> 00:16:45.519 end of World War Two. With the dropping of those 264 00:16:45.559 --> 00:16:52.200 two upcoming bombs, we lost. It did more than then 265 00:16:52.440 --> 00:16:59.879 just kill undreds of thousands of innocent civilian Japanese People's 266 00:17:00.039 --> 00:17:04.119 hear the conscience of the American government. 267 00:17:04.400 --> 00:17:05.640 That's a good way where. 268 00:17:05.519 --> 00:17:10.079 The American government felt like, well, we have we have 269 00:17:10.480 --> 00:17:13.480 the right. We are morally superior to anyone else in 270 00:17:13.480 --> 00:17:17.880 the world. We can define goodness and righteousness as we 271 00:17:17.920 --> 00:17:21.559 want to. We are the exceptional nation and we have 272 00:17:21.680 --> 00:17:25.559 the power to do it, and so we can do 273 00:17:25.559 --> 00:17:28.440 anything we want. And so we are seeing that today 274 00:17:28.480 --> 00:17:32.960 in twenty twenty five, which is just a continuation of 275 00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:39.000 the false war doctrum, the unjust war doctrine of the 276 00:17:39.079 --> 00:17:39.839 end of World War two. 277 00:17:40.400 --> 00:17:44.559 I absolutely I agree. Yeah many times the excuses made 278 00:17:44.599 --> 00:17:47.759 by Depentagon on others that well, that allowed us in 279 00:17:47.799 --> 00:17:51.480 the war early. But if they had used that against 280 00:17:51.519 --> 00:17:55.279 military forces, I think it would have had the same effect. 281 00:17:55.960 --> 00:17:59.160 The key thing is that the targeting of civilians, which 282 00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:02.480 is what we're seeing in God now, and the idea 283 00:18:02.720 --> 00:18:05.680 that we don't start wars now we start wars preemptively, 284 00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:08.960 and that was in the beginning of World War Two. 285 00:18:09.720 --> 00:18:12.440 That was something that was a day of infamy when 286 00:18:12.440 --> 00:18:15.079 the Japanese bomb Pearl Harbor. Now, of course we know 287 00:18:15.200 --> 00:18:21.400 that FDR stood down and invited that in many different ways. Nevertheless, 288 00:18:22.240 --> 00:18:25.960 for them to initiate war that has still been everybody 289 00:18:26.039 --> 00:18:28.920 understands that. You know, there's always an argument as to 290 00:18:29.000 --> 00:18:32.799 who began the war. We see that argument playing out 291 00:18:32.799 --> 00:18:35.799 between Israel and Gaza. We said, argument playing out between 292 00:18:35.880 --> 00:18:39.680 Russia and Ukraine. So everybody understands that that is unjust. 293 00:18:39.839 --> 00:18:41.960 And what I'm concerned about when I look at what's 294 00:18:41.960 --> 00:18:45.680 happening with Israel and with much of this other stuff 295 00:18:45.720 --> 00:18:50.119 that Christians are cheering, is that even atheists and Pagans 296 00:18:50.279 --> 00:18:54.559 understand instinctively the right and wrong about starting wars, the 297 00:18:54.640 --> 00:18:59.200 right and wrong about targeting civilians and sustaining this when 298 00:18:59.240 --> 00:19:03.759 there's no threat to you. And it is really amazing 299 00:19:03.839 --> 00:19:07.359 to me to see Christians who are sharing this. 300 00:19:07.400 --> 00:19:07.880 Type of thing. 301 00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:10.559 But of course that is coming out of well, I 302 00:19:10.559 --> 00:19:12.920 think is a bad theology. And you've got a book 303 00:19:12.960 --> 00:19:16.799 that addresses that, the incredible Schofield and his book I 304 00:19:16.880 --> 00:19:18.640 think you have on your website tells a little bit 305 00:19:18.640 --> 00:19:19.079 about that. 306 00:19:21.240 --> 00:19:27.680 Yeah, that is the most thoroughly documented and fully researched 307 00:19:28.839 --> 00:19:33.839 biography of Cyrus Schofield ever written. And when you were 308 00:19:33.880 --> 00:19:39.160 talking about what you just said that the whole emphasus 309 00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:46.400 behind that is build Field. Futurism also called dispensationalism, also 310 00:19:46.519 --> 00:19:52.599 called person Zionism, and it was started not by Scholfield, 311 00:19:52.640 --> 00:19:58.319 but by a man named John Darby, who was a 312 00:19:58.400 --> 00:20:01.759 generation in front of Billfield, but they overlapped in the 313 00:20:01.839 --> 00:20:08.039 latter years of Darby's life and a Darby disciple, by 314 00:20:08.079 --> 00:20:13.799 the way, the idea of a rapture by a pre 315 00:20:14.319 --> 00:20:21.880 second coming resurrection of Christian people, that concept was never 316 00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:26.519 taught in church history from the time of Jesus all 317 00:20:26.559 --> 00:20:30.079 the way up until the mid eighteen hundreds. Yes, so 318 00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:34.279 for over eighteen hundred years there was never a doctrine 319 00:20:34.519 --> 00:20:40.119 called the rapture or dispensationalism or futurism, we'll call what 320 00:20:40.240 --> 00:20:40.559 you will. 321 00:20:40.759 --> 00:20:43.200 And yet now that is pretty much taken over. That's 322 00:20:43.240 --> 00:20:46.680 pretty much taken over in terms of American Christianity. 323 00:20:46.240 --> 00:20:50.119 Has oh yeah, absolutely dominant. Yeah, But the history of 324 00:20:50.119 --> 00:20:55.160 it is there was a Prophecy conference in Glasgow, Gotland, 325 00:20:55.359 --> 00:20:59.240 and I think the year was eighteen thirty and there 326 00:20:59.319 --> 00:21:08.039 was a a woman who self identified trans channeler Margaret 327 00:21:08.119 --> 00:21:11.599 mc donald I believe was a name, and she spoke 328 00:21:11.640 --> 00:21:16.079 in this conference and you know, this whole trans channeling stuff, 329 00:21:16.279 --> 00:21:20.759 that's that's the mind, and she went into a trance 330 00:21:20.880 --> 00:21:26.960 on stage and she started to babble forth this two 331 00:21:27.119 --> 00:21:33.519 stage return of Christ, with the book called Rapture being 332 00:21:33.720 --> 00:21:37.599 stage number one. And that was that was the first 333 00:21:37.640 --> 00:21:41.640 time that I can find in my research where in 334 00:21:41.759 --> 00:21:46.559 church history that doctrine was taught. And it wasn't really 335 00:21:46.599 --> 00:21:50.720 even taught. It wasn't a pastor getting up and expounding 336 00:21:50.759 --> 00:21:55.480 the scriptures. It was this demonic trans channeler that went 337 00:21:55.559 --> 00:21:58.359 into a trance and you know, said that this is 338 00:21:58.400 --> 00:22:00.640 what she was shown by the spirit and all this 339 00:22:00.759 --> 00:22:05.200 kind of stuff. So the whole beginning of the Rapture 340 00:22:05.759 --> 00:22:08.599 was demonic in my view. Well, anyway, it was picked 341 00:22:08.680 --> 00:22:12.039 up by the founder of the Plymouth brother by the 342 00:22:12.079 --> 00:22:15.119 name of John Darby. He became the champion of this doctrine. 343 00:22:16.519 --> 00:22:21.559 He had a man that disciples of B. S. Scholfield, 344 00:22:21.599 --> 00:22:26.160 who was young at the time and Schofield was a 345 00:22:26.240 --> 00:22:29.720 con man. He was a fraud. He was a thief. 346 00:22:29.720 --> 00:22:34.799 He spent six months in jail for a fraud. He 347 00:22:34.839 --> 00:22:38.319 was a deserter of his family. He walked out on 348 00:22:38.359 --> 00:22:41.400 his wife. And now we're talking. You know, this is 349 00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:44.720 the mid eighteen hundreds. There was no social security, there 350 00:22:44.759 --> 00:22:48.799 was no welfare, there were no benefits. I mean he 351 00:22:48.880 --> 00:22:54.319 just left his two little girls and his wife. He 352 00:22:54.559 --> 00:23:00.200 you know, gave himself a lawyer title. He never went 353 00:23:00.240 --> 00:23:03.480 to law school. He never he was never a lawyer, 354 00:23:03.480 --> 00:23:06.599 but he put a law degree behind his name and 355 00:23:06.640 --> 00:23:12.000 he started working in law after his so called conversion 356 00:23:12.039 --> 00:23:15.759 and he got onto his religious kick. He gave himself 357 00:23:16.119 --> 00:23:20.440 a theological degree that he never earned. He never went 358 00:23:20.519 --> 00:23:24.200 to college. But you know, if you if you look 359 00:23:24.240 --> 00:23:29.039 at the Schoolfield Bible, I'll say virus I Scholfield d 360 00:23:29.200 --> 00:23:33.599 d Well. That's just the degree that he gave himself. 361 00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:38.240 I mean, this man was a fraud's fraud. He was 362 00:23:38.279 --> 00:23:41.680 the conman's comman. I mean he's you know, he would 363 00:23:41.680 --> 00:23:48.480 have made P. T. Barnum jealous. Yeah, this and this 364 00:23:48.519 --> 00:23:51.519 is the guy that founded what we now know is 365 00:23:51.599 --> 00:23:55.799 Christmas is over Schoolfield futurisms, and the thing that the 366 00:23:56.440 --> 00:24:00.240 genius of it, the thing that made it. Sufficely say, 367 00:24:00.279 --> 00:24:05.000 why how did this sweep the country and become vogue, 368 00:24:05.039 --> 00:24:09.079 you know, and seminaries and Bible colleges and churches all 369 00:24:09.119 --> 00:24:14.000 across the United States. The genius of it was. I 370 00:24:14.039 --> 00:24:15.799 got to explain this to you just a minute to 371 00:24:16.079 --> 00:24:20.200 help you understand how this became so popular. It didn't 372 00:24:20.200 --> 00:24:23.880 become popular because of the doctrine. It didn't become popular 373 00:24:23.880 --> 00:24:29.640 because of what was being said in the Bible until 374 00:24:29.920 --> 00:24:36.240 the Thomas Schofield Bible dollars. You go back into the 375 00:24:37.000 --> 00:24:41.880 post Reformation days like Adam Clark and Ala Barnes and 376 00:24:41.920 --> 00:24:46.839 Matthew Henry and John Gill and all these James and 377 00:24:46.880 --> 00:24:51.680 Fosset and Brown, you name it. All these commentators. Whenever 378 00:24:51.720 --> 00:24:54.960 they would study the Scripture, they would they would write 379 00:24:55.079 --> 00:25:01.640 their commentaries in a separate book. They would not put 380 00:25:01.680 --> 00:25:05.559 their words on the same page as the words of God, 381 00:25:06.160 --> 00:25:09.559 because they had such a holy reverence for the words 382 00:25:09.559 --> 00:25:14.160 of God that they felt it would be sacrilege for 383 00:25:14.359 --> 00:25:20.319 them to put their words their commentaries in the same 384 00:25:20.480 --> 00:25:26.279 page as the scripture. Well, therefore they would write their 385 00:25:26.319 --> 00:25:30.200 books in a separate and a complete, separate volume. So 386 00:25:30.240 --> 00:25:33.319 if you wanted to read the Matthew Henard commentaries, for example, 387 00:25:33.720 --> 00:25:38.960 the classic foremost commentary of all the time, you would 388 00:25:39.000 --> 00:25:41.000 have to have your open Bible on one side of 389 00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:44.440 the desk and then your open Matthew Henry commentary on 390 00:25:44.480 --> 00:25:46.440 the other side of the desk and look back and forth. 391 00:25:47.079 --> 00:25:50.000 And that's how you had to study and learn. So 392 00:25:50.200 --> 00:25:55.680 what Schopfield did He ignored that and he put his 393 00:25:56.400 --> 00:26:01.480 comments on the same page as the Bible, so whenever 394 00:26:01.519 --> 00:26:05.240 you open the Bible, you had the scripture versus and 395 00:26:05.400 --> 00:26:10.720 his commentary on the same page. Well, this was a 396 00:26:10.799 --> 00:26:15.960 breakthrough in that it was such a convenience for people. 397 00:26:16.720 --> 00:26:19.759 You didn't have to carry two books around, you know, 398 00:26:20.000 --> 00:26:21.920 to look back and forth. You could just open the 399 00:26:21.960 --> 00:26:25.759 Bible and you had the commentary and the Bible on 400 00:26:25.799 --> 00:26:28.960 the same page. So it was a marketing tool. 401 00:26:29.799 --> 00:26:31.480