Speaker 1: One of the most exciting things in the tokenized space
Speaker 1: is access to private equity. The idea that I could
Speaker 1: have assets from a company that's not public I think
Speaker 1: has been traditionally held outside of retail grasp. With tokenized securities,
Speaker 1: you can now offer the retail customer access to that
Speaker 1: asset class that many people I think are super interested in.
Speaker 1: That is going to be a real winner on the
Speaker 1: retail side.
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Speaker 2: the biggest players in crypto trust Bitgo. Hey, folks, welcome
Speaker 2: into the Thinking Crypto podcast. I'm your host Tony Edward
Speaker 2: and we're recording at Station three in New York's Financial District.
Speaker 2: And join me today is Nancy Beaton, who is the
Speaker 2: president of Uphold US. Uphold is a digital wallet and
Speaker 2: trading platform that makes cryptocurrencies and other assets affordable and
Speaker 2: accessible for everyone. Nancy, great to have thanks. We did
Speaker 2: an interview before at Rippleswell in Miami different times back
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty four, so it's great to be doing
Speaker 2: another one in person with you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm glad to be here. This is my first
Speaker 1: time at Station three. It's great.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And obviously being down in Wall Street, we're seeing
Speaker 2: crypto takeover Wall Street. Big news around Uphold. Yesterday there
Speaker 2: was the announcement of a crypto backed credit card product.
Speaker 2: Tell us about that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, we launched a credit card that lets
Speaker 1: you take your assets. You can put them up as
Speaker 1: collateral and not sell them, but you can unlock the
Speaker 1: value of those assets on a card. So if I
Speaker 1: want to take my BTC, my EVE, my USDC, I
Speaker 1: can deposit it and that becomes instant credit on a
Speaker 1: credit card that I can spend in one hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty million merchants worldwide.
Speaker 2: So that's pretty profound because typically there's usually a taxable
Speaker 2: event in converting. How is this different?
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, so the reality is a lot of people,
Speaker 1: and we're known we have a very large XRP holding community.
Speaker 1: A lot of people want to invest and stack and
Speaker 1: collect and hold their digital assets, right and they see
Speaker 1: the promise of those digital assets, but in certain times
Speaker 1: they need the value that's locked up in those digital assets.
Speaker 1: And we know our users have more of their financial
Speaker 1: value locked up in crypto than the average crypto user.
Speaker 1: So we want to give our users away to take
Speaker 1: those assets, to put them up, to deposit them and
Speaker 1: use them as collateral so that they can have that
Speaker 1: day to day flexibility of spending on everyday things that
Speaker 1: they may need or trips or groceries or gas or
Speaker 1: whatever it may be right now without having to sell
Speaker 1: those precious assets.
Speaker 2: So talk to us about the logistics of how that's done.
Speaker 2: Is it via stable coins? How's the credit initiated off?
Speaker 2: Let's say I put some big cooin in and I
Speaker 2: want to spend it real the card.
Speaker 1: It's super easy in the app. You take your bitcoin,
Speaker 1: you take your ether, you take your USDC. You can
Speaker 1: deposit as collateral. Then you can borrow against that collateral.
Speaker 1: That borrowing becomes available on a credit card that you
Speaker 1: activate in the app. You can put that credit card
Speaker 1: in your Google and Apple pay, and then you can
Speaker 1: use it as a visa signature card. At one hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty million merchants.
Speaker 2: That's significant because a lot of folks, you know, they rightfully,
Speaker 2: so I have the pain point of capital gains tax.
Speaker 2: But if I can borrow and then use the capital
Speaker 2: to spend and do what I need to do, you know,
Speaker 2: that's really great. So is there are there limits on
Speaker 2: what I can spend or borrow.
Speaker 1: So depending on how much you deposit is how much
Speaker 1: you know credit you get on the credit card. But
Speaker 1: you can see a real time in the app. You
Speaker 1: can also pick your payment plans, so up to fix
Speaker 1: eight fixed payments, so you can see in real time
Speaker 1: what the interest would be on various payment plans, and
Speaker 1: you can choose which one you want to use to
Speaker 1: repay that and then you can continue to borrow against
Speaker 1: any of the assets you've put up for collateral.
Speaker 2: You mentioned bitcoin, etherorem and USDC. That's what their plans
Speaker 2: to expand to other ass.
Speaker 1: Definitely plans to expand that. You could imagine as us
Speaker 1: in our large community that we have, we definitely want
Speaker 1: to expand that to other assets that people can deposit.
Speaker 2: I read that there's no annual fees, no credit checks
Speaker 2: as well.
Speaker 1: It's true, there's no credit checks, there's no annual fees,
Speaker 1: And this is really important, right, Your crypto is your collateral.
Speaker 1: Your crypto is your credit. So people you know that
Speaker 1: don't have credit, maybe are heavy into crypto, that don't
Speaker 1: have other financial vacuings. Maybe you haven't bought a house yet,
Speaker 1: maybe you haven't amassed that credit score that everybody seemed
Speaker 1: so precious. You can just use your crypto as your collateral.
Speaker 1: And I think this is important too because that next
Speaker 1: generation of users can have access to credit without the
Speaker 1: twenty year credit score that everybody has taken a long
Speaker 1: time to build up and to perfect and to check.
Speaker 1: So yes, no credit score and checks and no annual fees.
Speaker 2: It's such a great option because I think of myself addingdotally,
Speaker 2: I have my crypto assets and I can't do much
Speaker 2: with them. I can't put them to work. I can
Speaker 2: use them as collateral as you mentioned. But now I
Speaker 2: can would uphold, and I can if I need to,
Speaker 2: I don't know, do some repairs in my house or
Speaker 2: whatever it may be. I can now put that asset
Speaker 2: to work versus just letting it sit there.
Speaker 1: That's right. A lot of times they do sit idle, right.
Speaker 1: People are looking to stack them, they're looking to build
Speaker 1: their investment portfolio, so they do leave it idle. And
Speaker 1: one of the things we're looking to do it uphold
Speaker 1: is really help you maximize your assets. Why they sit idle.
Speaker 1: Nobody needs to have their investments sitting idle, right. You
Speaker 1: need to be able to borrow against them, you need
Speaker 1: to be able to earn against them. You need to
Speaker 1: be able to put them up and let others against
Speaker 1: them and you earn a yield back. So there's a
Speaker 1: lot of things that we're working to do to make
Speaker 1: sure that when you have those assets, they don't sit idle,
Speaker 1: that you're maximizing them as they're there in your portfolio.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're seeing from a broader perspective, Banks and others
Speaker 2: are starting to noodle on this and try to see
Speaker 2: if they can present or offer crypto back products and
Speaker 2: using cryptos collateral.
Speaker 1: That's right, and you'll see us do more and more.
Speaker 1: We do believe our users want to have multi asset classes,
Speaker 1: and we do believe that they want crypto to be
Speaker 1: at the heart of those asset classes. But they want
Speaker 1: to be able to use their crypto for other things, right,
Speaker 1: whether it's for borrowing, whether it's for house repairs, whether
Speaker 1: it's for credit. They want to be able to use
Speaker 1: it without selling it.
Speaker 2: And in regards to how it's locked in their respective
Speaker 2: credit setup, what's general terms around that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So we are partnering with the Exactly protocol, so
Speaker 1: it's an established protocol. So this is really people's first
Speaker 1: intrigue easily into defied protocols, and so the uh, the
Speaker 1: assets that are deposited go into the Exactly protocol. This
Speaker 1: version of that protocol is actually a permissioned version of
Speaker 1: that protocol, so we know the participants and then the
Speaker 1: assets that they have when they get the credit card,
Speaker 1: it's an Exa credit card, so it's an Exa Visa
Speaker 1: signature credit card. Comes with all the visa perks that
Speaker 1: you get with travel and lodging and rewards and benefits,
Speaker 1: and then you can use it at anywhere visas accepted.
Speaker 2: That's pretty incredible, and it's like one hundred and fifty
Speaker 2: a million merchants worldwide.
Speaker 1: Right, that's right. I mean, this is the utility of
Speaker 1: crypto is being able to you know, buy an asset,
Speaker 1: let it, you know, be able to be a key
Speaker 1: portion of your portfolio, but then also unlocking the value
Speaker 1: of that asset anywhere you spend anywhere visas accepted.
Speaker 2: So a common question folks may have at times the
Speaker 2: market can be volatile. All markets are volatl, Right, so
Speaker 2: how do you do the loan to value type or
Speaker 2: I shouldn't say loan to value, but how do you
Speaker 2: do the value of the assets and the amount of
Speaker 2: credit you're going to get as a result.
Speaker 1: Yeah, typically you get about fifty percent loan to value credit.
Speaker 1: There is a health score that the defied protocol, the
Speaker 1: exactly protocol has and publishes, so in real time you
Speaker 1: can see your health score. Right, you can see what
Speaker 1: is in the protocol, you can see how much you've repaid,
Speaker 1: you can see what percent loan to value you can
Speaker 1: get so right in the app, you'll see that ongoing
Speaker 1: updated health score that will let you manage how much
Speaker 1: you can borrow, your repayments, your payment plan, all of
Speaker 1: that's writing the app under the health score.
Speaker 2: I guess I did use the right word LTV outland value.
Speaker 2: I wasn't sure because I didn't want to think of
Speaker 2: it as like a mortgage or something, but rather credit,
Speaker 2: which is really great. I love this and this is
Speaker 2: something I'm looking forward to trying, because, like I said,
Speaker 2: I want to put my assets to work. They're just
Speaker 2: sitting there, and if I could put some of that,
Speaker 2: especially bitcoin, because I don't necessarily want to spend my bitcoin.
Speaker 2: I want to keep it a long term like gold
Speaker 2: or something. That's right, But if I can borrow against it, yeah,
Speaker 2: I could. Certainly that would be very helpful.
Speaker 1: Yes, I think so too. You know, you'll see I
Speaker 1: think you'll see a lot of people take advantage of
Speaker 1: this because we do have a lot of people that
Speaker 1: have much of their financial holdings in crypto, and I
Speaker 1: think you're going to see more and more people holding
Speaker 1: crypto and they want the value of that crypto. They
Speaker 1: do not want to sell the crypto and this is
Speaker 1: the perfect solution for that.
Speaker 2: Pardon the interruption. Hi, I'm Tony. I'm the host of
Speaker 2: the Thinking Crypto podcast. I wanted to ask you if
Speaker 2: you can please support the podcast by hitting the like
Speaker 2: button subscribing. If you haven't as yet, you can leave
Speaker 2: a comment below as well. And if you're listening on
Speaker 2: a podcast platform such as Spotify, Apple or wherever you
Speaker 2: get your podcasts, please be sure to follow and hit
Speaker 2: the five star rating. I'll let you get back to
Speaker 2: the content. Thank you so much. Now, this is certainly
Speaker 2: not the first fora for Uphold regards to different credit cards.
Speaker 2: I mean, you guys have had the Uphold debit card
Speaker 2: which has XRP rewards and much more. So. It's really
Speaker 2: great that you're building all these products.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, we want people to come to Uphold
Speaker 1: and be able to, you know, trust in the product.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: We've been publishing a transparency page of all the assets
Speaker 1: and liabilities we have in every thirty seconds on our website.
Speaker 1: We want them to be able to have access to
Speaker 1: the most tokens. We have more than three hundred tokens,
Speaker 1: and we often list tokens first. We are unique in
Speaker 1: that we are not a traditional exchange. We are actually
Speaker 1: connected to thirty two different trading venues, so we can
Speaker 1: access tokens, we can search the market for the best
Speaker 1: liquidity and give our customers great pricing, and then we
Speaker 1: really want them to come to us so that they
Speaker 1: can maximize their assets. So it might be things like
Speaker 1: the debit card you mentioned, right, I can get a
Speaker 1: debit card, I can spend FIAT. I can spend my
Speaker 1: crypto if I want, and I get two three, four
Speaker 1: percent up to four percent XRP back when I do
Speaker 1: my everyday spending. Again, making the most of the assets
Speaker 1: that you have this new execredit card. Right, I can
Speaker 1: deposit my BTC, my ETH, my USDC, I can unlock
Speaker 1: its spending power without selling it and then use it
Speaker 1: in my everyday life. So those things you're going to
Speaker 1: see more and more where we can deliver to people
Speaker 1: multi assets and multiple ways to maximize their assets.
Speaker 2: Yeah, such a great product, and I'm curious as much
Speaker 2: as you can share, you know, uphold strategy for the
Speaker 2: younger generations as well, gen Z eventually gen Alpha Ray,
Speaker 2: who are very digitally native, They're going to be doing
Speaker 2: almost everything on their smartphones and eventually maybe their glasses. Right,
Speaker 2: how are you guys thinking about the future and catering
Speaker 2: for that generation a lot?
Speaker 1: We're thinking about it a lot. You know, that generation
Speaker 1: is going to expect that they can move money like
Speaker 1: they move a snap, right, like they move a text message,
Speaker 1: like they move an instant message. So we need to
Speaker 1: really be thinking about how they have expectations for digital assets. Right.
Speaker 1: They're not going to They're not going to wait on
Speaker 1: the weekend, you know, to access money. That's not how
Speaker 1: they think they're real time. They're twenty four seven. I
Speaker 1: have a seventeen year old daughter and a thirteen year
Speaker 1: old son, and I can see it right now. Right
Speaker 1: when they ask for me for money, they are not
Speaker 1: asking for cash, right, they are asking me to deposit
Speaker 1: in their Apple pay. They are going to expect that
Speaker 1: money moves like their text messages, like their snaps. And
Speaker 1: so one of the things that we're doing is we
Speaker 1: are making it easy for them to access digital assets, right,
Speaker 1: be able to have more than three hundred on the platform.
Speaker 1: We are making it easy for them to spend against
Speaker 1: the value of those assets. So in the extra credit card,
Speaker 1: no credit check, you're eighteen, you're nineteen. You do not
Speaker 1: have the credit that somebody my age might have. So
Speaker 1: now you can get full access to the credit that
Speaker 1: your or to the value that your crypto holds, without
Speaker 1: having the traditional financial you know, build up of good credit,
Speaker 1: of spending, of habits, all those types of things, because
Speaker 1: your crypto is your collateral and they're going to expect
Speaker 1: more and more ease like this. That's going to cater
Speaker 1: to the way that they spend.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm assuming you have your kids do some
Speaker 2: beta testing for uphold.
Speaker 1: All the time. In fact, you know, my son Jude,
Speaker 1: he's thirteen and he asks for bitcoin for Christmas. Wow, right,
Speaker 1: and so he's very interested in seeing it. He knows
Speaker 1: about it. You know, maybe a little bit because I'm
Speaker 1: in the space, but I think, you know, these kids
Speaker 1: understand different ways of making money. None of these folks
Speaker 1: in you know this gen Z gen Alpha are looking
Speaker 1: to sit behind a desk for twenty five years and
Speaker 1: have a four to oh one k vest so that
Speaker 1: they can retire at seventy. There are creators, they're gig
Speaker 1: economy workers. They have multiple hustles on the side. I mean,
Speaker 1: they want to make money fast. They see it that
Speaker 1: is how you know, that's how they see the world.
Speaker 1: When I was growing up, we didn't have we didn't
Speaker 1: have a tony thinking crypto or a YouTube, right, you know,
Speaker 1: and so everybody wanted a job. And now, you know,
Speaker 1: I think they move from job to job. I think
Speaker 1: they find the right fit for them. I think they're streamers.
Speaker 1: I think they're gig economy workers. And they're going to
Speaker 1: expect that their money and payments move like that.
Speaker 2: Too, absolutely, and just economically and how the world has changed.
Speaker 2: It's not necessarily their fault. It's just they have to
Speaker 2: adapt to how things have changed in the economy. And look,
Speaker 2: it's it's so crazy out there, you know. Economically, it
Speaker 2: is a whole macro conversation I have here. And to
Speaker 2: your point, they need to find the different avenues to earn,
Speaker 2: whether that's crypto and other things. And with the advancing
Speaker 2: in crypto and stable coins, they can get paid instantly.
Speaker 2: They don't have to maybe wait till the end of
Speaker 2: the week for a paycheck. They can get paid the
Speaker 2: day over an hour of eventually.
Speaker 1: That's right. And the movement of money, yeah, right, the
Speaker 1: idea that you can move money across borders, you know,
Speaker 1: across countries. The flow of money is really important to them.
Speaker 1: They expect it to flow like everything else does digitally
Speaker 1: in their worlds. You know, they think it's interested in.
Speaker 1: My kids think it's interesting that we have a local
Speaker 1: bank that we go to, right, They're like, why are
Speaker 1: we here? Can't you just do that on your phone?
Speaker 1: And so, you know, I think they expect it all
Speaker 1: to be right there, ready, at the ready and instant
Speaker 1: for them.
Speaker 2: So on that note, we got all of Wall Street,
Speaker 2: the bank's investment firms are all recognizing that's the direction
Speaker 2: to Puck's heading in. We have to tokenize. We have
Speaker 2: to put fiat currencies on blockchains and create stable coins
Speaker 2: and tokenize deposits. We have to put stocks, equities, gold,
Speaker 2: and much more on chain. I would love to get
Speaker 2: your thoughts on what's happening there and how Uphold is
Speaker 2: looking at the tokenization market.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I think, you know, there's no doubt that
Speaker 1: the financial industry is going to adopt blockchain. The operational
Speaker 1: efficiencies alone, right warrant adopting blockchain to process money, to
Speaker 1: track money, you know, to send money, it's just so
Speaker 1: much more if efficient.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I fully believe that you know, traditional financial financial
Speaker 1: institutions are going to do that, and we're helping many
Speaker 1: of them do that through our platform. You know, the
Speaker 1: tokenization of assets is really exciting. We pulled our customer
Speaker 1: and tokenized securities is one of the highest things they
Speaker 1: are interested in. I think they want to diversify their portfolios.
Speaker 1: I think they want multiple asset classes, like we've been
Speaker 1: talking about before, crypto token ised securities. They trust the blockchain,
Speaker 1: so anything that layers on that I think is a positive,
Speaker 1: and token ised securities was one of the most requested
Speaker 1: things that they told us they're interested in, and we
Speaker 1: did announce that we will be bringing token ised securities
Speaker 1: to market. I think really interesting in the token is
Speaker 1: space for me. I mean there's there's tokenized treasuries, there's
Speaker 1: you know, institutional tokenized assets things like this, there's totalanized
Speaker 1: fractional securities. I think one of the most exciting things
Speaker 1: in the tokenize space is access to private equity. So
Speaker 1: you know, the idea that I could have assets from
Speaker 1: a company that's not public I think has been traditionally
Speaker 1: held outside of retail grasp and I think with tokenized securities,
Speaker 1: you can now offer the retail customer access to that
Speaker 1: asset class that many people I think are super interested in.
Speaker 1: So I think that is going to be a real
Speaker 1: winner on the retail side.
Speaker 2: And part of the token economy, so to speak, is
Speaker 2: being able to the theme of what we're talking about
Speaker 2: putting your assets to work. Because let's say a stock
Speaker 2: is tokenized, you can then put into DeFi and earn
Speaker 2: off of that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. You could have multi asset holdings, right,
Speaker 1: you could rebalance a portfolio on multiple assets. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's so many things that you could do, and I
Speaker 1: think people are going to want to participate in more
Speaker 1: assets as they become on the blockchain.
Speaker 2: And I read that Uphold did file an application with
Speaker 2: Finra in conjunction with t zero to launch the token
Speaker 2: I securities.
Speaker 1: We did, and so we're actively working that now and
Speaker 1: we want to bring token is securities to our user base. Again,
Speaker 1: it's the number one thing that they are asking for.
Speaker 2: Wow, And how is Uphold as a company prepare And
Speaker 2: you're already a global company, but when it comes to
Speaker 2: twenty four to seven markets, how are you preparing for that?
Speaker 2: Because that's a bit on steroids. You need to have
Speaker 2: people who are awake and not sleeping.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean we're already there. I mean Uphold as
Speaker 1: a company when we first started. I mean, we're in crypto.
Speaker 1: Crypto is twenty four to seven. Yeah, So whether you're
Speaker 1: global not global, that doesn't really play into it. It's
Speaker 1: really if you're in crypto, money and crypto and digital
Speaker 1: assets move twenty four to seven. So we are twenty
Speaker 1: four to seven. Our platforms up twenty four to seven.
Speaker 1: You know, we have you know, companies and people globally
Speaker 1: around the world serving different markets and then transferring that
Speaker 1: those digital assets and those assets around globally. But crypto
Speaker 1: is twenty four seven, blockchains twenty four seven. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's why I think it has huge advantages over traditional finance.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and it's amazing to see the Wall
Speaker 2: Street folks like New York Stock Exchange and NASDAC are
Speaker 2: awakening to this. And you know, crypto started at all
Speaker 2: and now everybody's looking to go twenty four seven, three
Speaker 2: sixty five, which it's it's like dawn of a new
Speaker 2: era because no more opening and closing bell. There won't
Speaker 2: be a need for that.
Speaker 1: You know. I feel like people appreciate clarity that has
Speaker 1: come in the last year or two around crypto and blockchain.
Speaker 1: Could there be more? Yes? Do we hope there's more soon,
Speaker 1: of course, But I do feel like we have seen
Speaker 1: more and more regulatory clarity. And when you have that,
Speaker 1: I think it allows traditional institutions, larger entities, corporations to
Speaker 1: open up the ability to participate. And so I think
Speaker 1: with that rise in regulatory clarity, I think more and
Speaker 1: more and more banks, businesses, FinTechs, regulated institutions will participate
Speaker 1: in blockchain. I think it will continue to grow as
Speaker 1: the regulatory clarity grows.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the specifically the SEC and the CFTC have
Speaker 2: been doing an amazing job providing guidance, even though the
Speaker 2: Clarity Act itself hasn't been passed into law. But it's
Speaker 2: they are the pillars that you know, they're so crucial
Speaker 2: because they are actually providing defined print details. Yes, they're
Speaker 2: doing the enforcement. So it's really great that both agencies
Speaker 2: have been providing guidance.
Speaker 1: Yes, And and the reality is we want clarity, yeah, right,
Speaker 1: We want regulatory clarity because that makes it easier for
Speaker 1: us to understand the parameters in which to operate. So
Speaker 1: we would we would love for all these things to
Speaker 1: pass to come to fruition so that they can better
Speaker 1: define how we operate in the space. And I think,
Speaker 1: you know, that's when you'll start to have more and
Speaker 1: more adoption.
Speaker 2: Recently, Uphold announced that they're You're partnering with the Digital
Speaker 2: Ascension Group and this is one of the largest crypto
Speaker 2: focused iras in the US and they're managing nearly one
Speaker 2: billion in assets or digital assets for clients. Uh. Tell
Speaker 2: us about that partnership and what's the goal there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a great partnership. Super excited about it. It's
Speaker 1: on our enterprise side. So a lot of people know
Speaker 1: Uphold for our retail wallet. Right, we've been talking about,
Speaker 1: you know, a crypto back credit card, We've been talking
Speaker 1: about debit cards, you know, assets, all types of things.
Speaker 1: But I think what people may not understand, understand or
Speaker 1: realize is the platform that underpens that really great retail
Speaker 1: wallet is a super high power platform. Right. It is
Speaker 1: twenty four to seven, It is highly compliant meeting regulatory standards. Right,
Speaker 1: We're licensed and registered across the globe, and we can
Speaker 1: now allow these banks, FinTechs, you know, broker dealers, institutions,
Speaker 1: financial companies the ability to get into the crypto digital
Speaker 1: asset market very quickly within ten weeks. So somebody like
Speaker 1: our partnership with the Digital Asset Group can take our
Speaker 1: platform and plug it into their user front end. So
Speaker 1: now if you're a user with Digital Asset Group, you
Speaker 1: can now trade all that we have on the platform
Speaker 1: just through our plug and play process with that partnership.
Speaker 1: And so you'll see more, You'll see more banks, you'll
Speaker 1: see more FinTechs, you'll see more in stations being announced
Speaker 1: where they are taking our platform and plugging it into
Speaker 1: their user interface.
Speaker 2: So you're kind of offering a crypto as a service
Speaker 2: product for these folks.
Speaker 1: That's right, because we do see the mass adoption coming
Speaker 1: right and you know, people to get into the crypto
Speaker 1: space right to have the trading, to have the regulatory
Speaker 1: to have the rules, to have the periodic checks, to
Speaker 1: have the you know, money flow, to have all the rails,
Speaker 1: it can take a long time and it takes a
Speaker 1: lot to build. And so now they can come to uphold,
Speaker 1: they can take our platform and they can plug it
Speaker 1: into their interface. You know, we were talking about you
Speaker 1: know the Gen Z, the Gen Alpha earlier, you know, banks,
Speaker 1: financial institutions, FinTechs. People are going to start demanding access
Speaker 1: to digital assets, right, and you know they are going
Speaker 1: to need to serve this next generation of financial customers
Speaker 1: and we can help them do that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure they're getting a lot of demand from
Speaker 2: folks who want to get out access to the acid
Speaker 2: class since it's grown and matured so much. And I
Speaker 2: can imagine you're probably getting a lot of demand from
Speaker 2: those institutions. We need to get this up and running.
Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of inbound calls, right. We have regulatory clarity,
Speaker 1: we have demands coming from the next generation of financial users.
Speaker 1: Those two things together create a lot of inbound calls
Speaker 1: for people who want to get up and running quickly
Speaker 1: in the digital asset space.
Speaker 2: I got into the crypto acid class in twenty sixteen,
Speaker 2: and I couldn't imagine things being at the point they're
Speaker 2: at right now. It's incredible with all the adoption from
Speaker 2: all these big institutions.
Speaker 1: It's true. You know, I've been in this space since
Speaker 1: twenty eighteen. I even in my first project, got the
Speaker 1: only the third SEC no action letter to bring a
Speaker 1: token to market. Imagine now what the regulatory environment is
Speaker 1: so the change that I have seen on the regulatory side,
Speaker 1: on the adoption side, it's just been tremendous. I think
Speaker 1: more and more of that's going to foster more and
Speaker 1: more growth in the space.
Speaker 2: Nancy, I'm a user of upholds stable coin rewards program
Speaker 2: with USCC and r O USD. However, some of the
Speaker 2: banks don't like that. They're saying no, no, no, We're
Speaker 2: worried about bank runs and all these things, which I
Speaker 2: think is hyperbole. But what are your thoughts on that
Speaker 2: situation And is it just simply the incumbents getting disrupted
Speaker 2: and they're like, wait a minute, we need to slow
Speaker 2: this down.
Speaker 1: You know, I personally feel that rewards are an inherent
Speaker 1: part of blockchain. I mean, go all you know, go
Speaker 1: back to proof of steak networks staking getting rewards. I
Speaker 1: think it's become part of the ecosystem. We do provide
Speaker 1: rewards on stable coins. Our users want to be able
Speaker 1: to earn on assets and some assets that are idle.
Speaker 1: So you know, I am a market led person and
Speaker 1: I here are customers and they want this. So I
Speaker 1: think anybody that gets in the space, customers are going
Speaker 1: to want an ability to earn rewards to me personally.
Speaker 1: It's similar to when I lend my money and I
Speaker 1: get interest from the bank and it's lent out somewhere else.
Speaker 1: You know, it's it can be similar that we get
Speaker 1: rewarded for that. Now, I do feel like, you know,
Speaker 1: this space will continue to grow and evolve, and the
Speaker 1: ways to earn yield rewards interest on your digital assets
Speaker 1: has exponentially grown in the space, so I think people
Speaker 1: are still going to want the ability to earn. On
Speaker 1: the other hand, I would say too, I think there
Speaker 1: are some really interesting things that are happening from the
Speaker 1: traditional finance space. So we have a partnersh with vast
Speaker 1: Bank and USBC and yeah, Greg, and you know, we
Speaker 1: are going to bring tokenized deposits to our users. So
Speaker 1: I deposit a dollar at a bank and it is
Speaker 1: a digital dollar on the blockchain. So my money is
Speaker 1: moving like I needed to, but it's at a financially regulated, institutional,
Speaker 1: traditional bank. So I think there's going to be lots
Speaker 1: of ways that people leverage blockchain to deliver value to customers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and anecdotally, I have money in the bank account,
Speaker 2: I use JP Morgan, I put parks of money on
Speaker 2: uphold for staking and stable corn yield. I'm not putting
Speaker 2: all my money right because I still need to do
Speaker 2: my everyday thing, but I want to put my money
Speaker 2: to work and earn as much as I can. But
Speaker 2: JP Morgan, just as an example, in this savings account
Speaker 2: zero point zero one. Come on, I'm going to go
Speaker 2: park in it, uphole, I'm going to go put my assets
Speaker 2: to work or my cash to work. So it's kind
Speaker 2: of ridiculous what the banks are doing. They should just
Speaker 2: compete and up the interest or offer a stable coin.
Speaker 1: So we actually have a high interest savings account. So
Speaker 1: you can put in money on uphold USDC. It is
Speaker 1: FDIC insured up to two point five million, right, not
Speaker 1: the two hundred and fifty thousand at the traditional bank,
Speaker 1: but two point five million, and we're currently paying out
Speaker 1: three point seventy five percent on your USD. It is
Speaker 1: also right next to where you need it. So you
Speaker 1: need to take advantage of the market, and you want
Speaker 1: to buy assets, you can move it in buy assets.
Speaker 1: You want to liquidate your assets, you can move that
Speaker 1: money into this account and make three point seventy five percent. Again,
Speaker 1: much higher than many traditional.
Speaker 2: Act that we have.
Speaker 1: So we see a lot of people bringing in that
Speaker 1: type of money to the platform because it is FDIC ensured,
Speaker 1: it's easily accessible, and it's right next to where you
Speaker 1: needed to be to take advantage of any movement.
Speaker 2: See, this is why this here is the future. What
Speaker 2: I'll pulls is the future. And I think the younger generations,
Speaker 2: if the banks don't up their game, are gonna they're
Speaker 2: going to move away from these traditional banks because we
Speaker 2: need to. We want to look for what we want
Speaker 2: to have the option to earn and get as much
Speaker 2: as we can.
Speaker 1: Yeah, our customers sells over and over. We want the
Speaker 1: ability to earn whether it's on my idle assets, whether
Speaker 1: it's on my USD, whether I want to steak. We
Speaker 1: just announced flexible staking, So now if you have any
Speaker 1: assets that are eligible for staking on uphold, with one button,
Speaker 1: we will stake them for you and you can come
Speaker 1: in and out instantly as you want, but still participate
Speaker 1: in the staking rewards that come along with some of
Speaker 1: those assets. So again, it's just making it easier for
Speaker 1: users to come and get rewarded or to maximize all
Speaker 1: the digital assets they have with us.
Speaker 2: Yeah. One of the things I highlight often is when
Speaker 2: we're in a bear market like we are now. Staking
Speaker 2: is a great option to earn on your assets versus Look,
Speaker 2: we know it's down a bit and you may have
Speaker 2: a long term view in the market, but put it
Speaker 2: to work and earn as we go through this downtime
Speaker 2: and we'll be back in another bull cycle eventually. But
Speaker 2: it's a great option.
Speaker 1: I think people should understand. You know, it's not always
Speaker 1: about timing the market. It's about time in the market.
Speaker 1: And it's so important that you take advantage of the
Speaker 1: tools that we have reoccurring buys, which is dollar cost averaging,
Speaker 1: right you have debit card rewards, We have rewards right
Speaker 1: now if you direct deposit part of your paycheck, you
Speaker 1: get up to four percent back in XRP. You know,
Speaker 1: we have staking flexible state that you can come in
Speaker 1: and out of boosted staking that gives you a higher
Speaker 1: reward for a little bit longer lock up. There's all
Speaker 1: these ways to maximize your digital assets and over time,
Speaker 1: those you know, have proven to pay off more than
Speaker 1: just trying to time the market.
Speaker 2: Absolutely well said, and I know we're talking about the
Speaker 2: bear market, but I would love to get your thoughts
Speaker 2: in the market conditions. Obviously, maybe the passable market didn't
Speaker 2: go according to what people may have had in their minds.
Speaker 2: But it's all cyclical. It looks like maybe we're nearing
Speaker 2: a bottom at some point and following up for your
Speaker 2: cycle a bitcoin. You know, do you think by the
Speaker 2: end of the year we're starting to come out of it.
Speaker 1: I think, you know, I think people should look at
Speaker 1: two things. One, I think they should look at blockchain,
Speaker 1: right the underlying technology that you know is underpenning all
Speaker 1: of the crypto that you see, that is still moving forward,
Speaker 1: that that's not retreating, that's not having a tough time.
Speaker 1: We see more and more adoption of blockchain technology, which
Speaker 1: is the real hero here. And I think you're going
Speaker 1: to continue to see banks, FinTechs, entities, institutional traders, institutions
Speaker 1: adopting blockchain technology. That's not going away, and that is
Speaker 1: at the heart of I think what we've all started here, right,
Speaker 1: So to me, that's not in any sort of market.
Speaker 1: I see that progressing, and I see it progressing, you know, rapidly.
Speaker 1: We just had folks with American banker. We were at
Speaker 1: the conference and there was nothing but talk about moving
Speaker 1: digital assets forward. So our digital blockchain capabilities forward so
Speaker 1: I think people need to understand that's not slowing. I think,
Speaker 1: you know, we do inter different cycles when it comes
Speaker 1: to the tokens that ride along top of that blockchain,
Speaker 1: and so so we are going to be in different
Speaker 1: types of cycles. The one thing I would just go
Speaker 1: back to is don't try to time the market. Be
Speaker 1: in the market, right, That's my personal advice because the
Speaker 1: more that you can use those tools to continue to
Speaker 1: earn and build your investment portfolio, that's the key, right
Speaker 1: that has proven over time to be a longer better
Speaker 1: strategy than somebody who tries to play in and out,
Speaker 1: in and out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, great advice. And you know, even anecdotally in myself
Speaker 2: buying some crypto acids in twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen, some
Speaker 2: of it I have not sold. I just let us
Speaker 2: sit there, even though it was painful going through cycles.
Speaker 2: But now it's up because I just played the time game.
Speaker 2: Just let it grow over time. The compound interests in.
Speaker 1: This, and you can start a recurring by as little
Speaker 1: as ten dollars, you know, a week. And so I
Speaker 1: think as people see these tools, it will even out
Speaker 1: there watching of the market, it'll even out their participation
Speaker 1: and it'll be a smoother runway.
Speaker 2: Is uphold leveraging AI and planning to leverage AI for
Speaker 2: the users and customers on the platform. I don't know
Speaker 2: how much you can share there because you know, I
Speaker 2: don't want you to give away your big plans. But
Speaker 2: you know, what are you guys doing there?
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean I think everybody's going to leverage AI, right,
Speaker 1: So I think operationally we're already leveraging AI. I just
Speaker 1: came from a meeting where we were talking about how
Speaker 1: we're going to implement AI, and so I think, yes,
Speaker 1: you will see And again I'll go back to a
Speaker 1: survey we did with our users. They are interested in
Speaker 1: using AI now. They're interested in various ways and flavors.
Speaker 1: They're interested in AI recommendations that then they personally sort
Speaker 1: through and take advantage of. I think they're also interested
Speaker 1: in AI for things like maybe rebalancing a portfolio or
Speaker 1: to you know, auto trade something that they set the
Speaker 1: parameters around. So you know, we know our customers want it,
Speaker 1: not scared of it at all, and so you'll see
Speaker 1: it come out in some future projects that we have.
Speaker 2: That's exciting. I know a lot of folks are looking
Speaker 2: to build AI agents, and yeah, if you could put
Speaker 2: an AI agent to work on rebalancing your portfolio, doing
Speaker 2: different things, or just saying hey, Nancy, hey Tony, here's
Speaker 2: the quick hits, what's happening with this ASCID, this asset here,
Speaker 2: what I recommend and things like that.
Speaker 1: That's right, And I think again it goes back to
Speaker 1: being able to build or earn on your investment portfolio,
Speaker 1: in your portfolio of digital assets, and being able to
Speaker 1: do that super easy. So I think people want to
Speaker 1: be able to again not have to time the market,
Speaker 1: but participate in the market and make that easy participation.
Speaker 2: This is kind of a follow up question to the
Speaker 2: tokenization conversation we had earlier and uphols plans aside from
Speaker 2: adding the tokenized acid is a phole leveraging blockchain in
Speaker 2: the background in any way, are you planning to.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think the most obvious way that
Speaker 1: you see it is, you know, letting users just coming
Speaker 1: on and off the platform, right, you know, I mean
Speaker 1: we know people have multiple wallets, right, average user, I
Speaker 1: don't know about you, average user probably has two three wallets,
Speaker 1: So you know, I think just allowing people to move
Speaker 1: money like that, I think is super super important. I think,
Speaker 1: you know, also we can support defy access. We can
Speaker 1: support you know, we talked about the exactly protocol. You'll
Speaker 1: see others like that coming in, so you'll see more
Speaker 1: of that in the space and giving people easier access
Speaker 1: to defy pools, to other protocols, things like that. And
Speaker 1: then I think just allowing you know, institutions, companies, businesses
Speaker 1: to move money either in our company or to maybe
Speaker 1: employees that are in different place. You'll see us be
Speaker 1: able to move money as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's exciting to see all the blockchain rails being
Speaker 2: set up for everybody to be able to participate in
Speaker 2: one way to the other. Now, we went through a lot,
Speaker 2: I'll pull us doing a lot And I want to ask, though,
Speaker 2: is there anything else on your roadmap that you want
Speaker 2: to highlight?
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I think there's a lot coming right.
Speaker 1: We've talked about token is securities, We've talked about rewards
Speaker 1: and debit card and AI and all types of different things.
Speaker 1: I think things that we see people being interested in
Speaker 1: in the traditional finance space, you'll see you know, we've
Speaker 1: talked about the Digital Asset group with iras. You know,
Speaker 1: we see people interested in you know, crypto focused iras,
Speaker 1: we see people that are interested in more earning products.
Speaker 1: We see people that are interested in more ways to
Speaker 1: unlock the value of their crypto, and I think we
Speaker 1: see a lot of interest in multi asset abilities. Ability
Speaker 1: to go from gold to bitcoin, which we have today, right,
Speaker 1: you can buy precious metals on Uphold today and one
Speaker 1: click from bitcoin to gold. I think you'll see equities, right.
Speaker 1: They want to put that in the mix as well,
Speaker 1: and start having a whole portfolio, a multi asset portfolio
Speaker 1: that they can manage right there, and then they can
Speaker 1: earn off of or unlock the value and spend in
Speaker 1: real life.
Speaker 2: I love that feature by Uphold because I think you
Speaker 2: guys were like the only ones that I know of
Speaker 2: that it can do that, and it's so analogous to
Speaker 2: the interoperable world that's being built with tokenized assets to
Speaker 2: allow for that instant conversion.
Speaker 1: That's right, And I think you know, eventually you can
Speaker 1: imagine that you have a multi asset portfolio that can
Speaker 1: be rebalanced and that you can manage. So I think
Speaker 1: there'll be a lot of opportunity for people to have
Speaker 1: more of their financial holdings at Uphold and then manage them,
Speaker 1: earn off them, and unlock the value.
Speaker 2: It may be true early to answer this question, but
Speaker 2: as more assets come on chain with the tokenization efforts,
Speaker 2: that's happening. So even like rare cars or rare comic
Speaker 2: books like the first Superman comic book or something like that, right,
Speaker 2: and things alone, those collectibles, and maybe the younger generation
Speaker 2: is saying, I like this, NFT, this Pokemon thing, would
Speaker 2: based on customer and demand, would uphold look to add
Speaker 2: things like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we regularly talk to our customers. You know,
Speaker 1: we just talked about going to be at XRP Vegas
Speaker 1: with two thousand of my best friends and customers. We
Speaker 1: regularly do research with our customers and customers outside in
Speaker 1: the general crypto market. So we're super market led, so
Speaker 1: we tend to do a lot of discussions what do
Speaker 1: our customers want, what do they need from us? And
Speaker 1: so we let that help drive you know, our roadmap,
Speaker 1: our priorities, our next projects, all of those types of things.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm looking forward to that. I'm a comic growing
Speaker 2: up as a kid. I like the sports cards and
Speaker 2: comic books, and I can't wait for like certain comic
Speaker 2: books that I can't afford I can't go buy a
Speaker 2: one million dollar Superman comic. But if there's a token
Speaker 2: of it, a fraction of it exactly, and I think
Speaker 2: that's going to be appealing to a lot of people.
Speaker 2: I can have access for the first time.
Speaker 1: You know what you just said it, Tony. I think
Speaker 1: this is all about delivering access right, private security access,
Speaker 1: tokenized security access, fractional security access, access to earning access
Speaker 1: to your comic book. You know things that I believe
Speaker 1: you know this this generation, you know, this group of
Speaker 1: hungry digital asset users may or may not have had
Speaker 1: in the past access to credit. Yeah, your crypto is
Speaker 1: your credit now right. This access, I think is at
Speaker 1: the heart of delivering the blockchain promise to the retail side.
Speaker 1: You know, I think there's a lot of operational efficiency.
Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of technical efficiency on the
Speaker 1: enterprise side. Their customers are going to demand the access
Speaker 1: and now they will have the infrastructure to deliver.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's all being built right now, right right.
Speaker 1: Now, it's built. I mean, now it's being adopted.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's fascinating. I think the world is going
Speaker 2: to have an eight year old So I'm thinking about
Speaker 2: the world which she's going to be in when she's
Speaker 2: eighteen or you know, becomes an adult. It's going to
Speaker 2: be much different, so fascinating. Well, I'm looking forward to
Speaker 2: the future. Updates are on Uphold and Nancy. Thank you
Speaker 2: so much for taking the time, Thanks.
Speaker 1: For having me. This is great. It's great to see
Speaker 1: you again. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Thank you so much for tuning in. Please hit
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Speaker 2: so much.